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Dating & Marriage With Women From Russia, Ukraine, Belarus & FSU => Agencies & Dating Sites => Topic started by: sharonhaber00 on April 19, 2012, 02:11:06 PM

Title: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 19, 2012, 02:11:06 PM
I just found it today. I thought it worth to post it here...for newbies...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_707788&src_vid=NBMCDLlKPNw&v=LN58os8v8FU

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 19, 2012, 02:33:23 PM
This guy is selling tour packages at www.SheIsThere.com

I've sent Mark an e-mail inviting him to join and participate on RUA as a Commercial member.

Shakey
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: chelseaboy on April 19, 2012, 03:09:14 PM
Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 19, 2012, 03:50:10 PM
Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2012, 04:19:23 PM
I've sent Mark an e-mail inviting him to join and participate on RUA as a Commercial member.

He is already a member. Has been for some time. He doesn't participate because he seems to be all about links [that have been deleted as spam in the past] to his sites rather than useful content. We see through that here. He gets away with drive by link drops on other sites though.....
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 19, 2012, 04:21:22 PM
Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

A 25 year age gape is not recommended and will rarely work. Of course it does happen, but when it does you can be sure that the couples involved are quite special, not to mention unique.

Its possible that the ‘experts’ are not recommending this to you for a very good reason.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 19, 2012, 05:05:00 PM
Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

 You seem to be looking for justification to do it no matter what anyone says here. So why are you even discussing it with us?

 Judging from what I've seen on your other threads anyone who tried to give you advice was just wasting their time. You could have 100 people come here and tell you its a stupid idea but if you have one who comes along and agrees with you then you'll forget everything everyone else said anyways.   :'(   

 So, go ahead... try and hook up with a 20 year old. You might get lucky and be one of those 1% who make it happen. Is that what you want to hear?   (:)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 19, 2012, 05:25:02 PM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 19, 2012, 06:27:53 PM
Sharon,

It does happen but the man has qualities that I suspect you lack. Sorry to brutal but women want to see a big rock and a monthly stipend.

Think vacation in St.Moritz and an 30+ meter yacht at St. Tropez.

Yes there are other relationships that have big age differences but they are exceptions.

AvHdB
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 19, 2012, 07:27:27 PM
When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl?


Anna complained about the "old guys" at the socials and the way that they were showing off their assets. Yet, she married a California man old enough to be her father who owns several businesses, has substantial assets and wasn't afraid to spend them in pursuit of Anna. Don't you see the obvious contradiction in that video?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Anteros on April 19, 2012, 07:38:07 PM
The universal truth is that men want youth and beauty, and women want financial security.  Many women whether they want to admit it or not, put money above all else.  Most men will admit they put youth and beauty on top.  Personally I try to find a happy medium.  30 years old is my target range.  I am in better than average physical shape so if I am older than her by 15 years, so what.  If I can outclimb her, ride a bike further, etc etc she is certainly not going to complain about my physical prowess in the bedroom.  The important thing to me is that we have the same attitude about money, which in my case I prefer to wait and buy quality, and I always want to have more than enough money in the bank for a rainy day.  Some women get that, and others want to spend it all until you are completely broke.  More and more it seems to me that the women looking to go abroad (as in leaving Ukraine or Russia) are just looking for a sugar daddy.
Title: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 19, 2012, 07:50:03 PM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

Surely you should ignore any advice you get here. You can find hundreds of
20 year old hotties on RLM or Anastasia Date or other pay by the letter sites.
Just search the pay by the letter sites.

You want somebody to tell you that there is a chance with you and a 20 year old
girl?

OK, there is a small chance that you can make things work with a 20 year old girl.
There is also a small chance that you can win the lottery too. I don't recommend
buying lottery tickets but they only cost a dollar or so each so it's no big deal if
you lose. 

I don't recommend that 50+ year old men pursue a 20 year old girl.
I don't recommend that 30 year old men pursue a 20 year old girl for
marriage.

So when you find a 20 year old girl, and get happily married please remember to
come by and tell us that we were all wrong.

UspEhov! hatzlacha !!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 19, 2012, 07:56:20 PM
I don't recommend that 50+ year old men pursue a 20 year old girl.
I don't recommend that 30 year old men pursue a 20 year old girl for
marriage.

The latter guys have more time to recover in case of failure, though.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 19, 2012, 08:10:11 PM
The latter guys have more time to recover in case of failure, though.


For sure they do! however anytime there is a 20 year old girl involved there will
probably be a baby along shortly which tends to extend the recovery period. 

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 19, 2012, 11:15:13 PM
That girls are at the peak of their fertility more than a decade before they are at the peak of their reasonableness illustrates the great cosmic sense of humor. Men are no less afflicted, though; we pursue lush girls whether we desire progeny or not. Short of castration, I see no exit to this dilemma.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Chemist on April 20, 2012, 07:15:22 AM
When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl?


Anna complained about the "old guys" at the socials and the way that they were showing off their assets. Yet, she married a California man old enough to be her father who owns several businesses, has substantial assets and wasn't afraid to spend them in pursuit of Anna. Don't you see the obvious contradiction in that video?

What women say and what they do are often two different things  :)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 20, 2012, 08:41:48 AM
The important thing to me is that we have the same attitude about money, which in my case I prefer to wait and buy quality, and I always want to have more than enough money in the bank for a rainy day.  Some women get that, and others want to spend it all until you are completely broke.  More and more it seems to me that the women looking to go abroad (as in leaving Ukraine or Russia) are just looking for a sugar daddy. 

Because of their history and experiences, many people in the FSU have a different perspective about money than we do here in the west.  Russia has had a change of government and TWO huge devaluations since 1990.  They've seen saved money become virtually worthless, so they haven't the experience to understand how saving money is a positive alternative.  Money, to them is to be spent for things NOW before they go up in price.  It is not uncommon when a close friends gets extra money, for him to share it amongst his "droogs", with the assumption that in the future, if others are in the same circumstance, they will do the same for him.   

With your attitude, it won't be uncommon for an FSU woman to perceive you as "cheap".  Hopefully this brief explanation will help you understand where they're coming from and how you might start to change their perception of you.   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 20, 2012, 09:05:25 AM
What women say and what they do are often two different things  :)

What Anna said and what she did were certainly polar opposites.

Be that as it may, I hope that Sharon understands what a powerful inducement that wealth is for many women and how the lack of it is great handicap for guys who seek extremely young girls. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Chemist on April 20, 2012, 09:15:42 AM
Anna and Mark also seem to have met during a time when marriages between WM and RW with large age differences were more common.  Many of them are probably divorced by now.  Mark seemingly is still providing the dream life and has no apparent defects in his health and character.  Anna also strikes me as being sensible and not addicted to drama which would make her appreciate the life she has.

Statistically speaking Mark and Anna are outliers
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 20, 2012, 10:59:03 AM
What women say and what they do are often two different things  :)

What Anna said and what she did were certainly polar opposites.

This is a valid point that I'd like to hear Mark's opinion about.  Anna's actions were definitely contrary to her stated principles on the tape.  However Mark seems a handsome, successful and even tempered sort which is consistant with her story in that light.  Ukraine is definitely a country with financial hardships among the masses.  In spite of her statements to the contrary, one must suspect that Mark's financial security played some part in Anna's decision to marry.  I understand that financial considerations are present ANY TIME a woman decides to marry but I am curious about Mark's opinion on how they played out in light of his nearly 27 year age difference with Anna. 

I'm also curious, has their marriage produced any children? 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 20, 2012, 11:07:15 AM
Yep,

25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so I guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.

First, THIS is the main form.  All other forms are secondary   ;D

Second, longshots pay off at the racetrack on occasion but every successful gambler knows you will eventually go broke by consistently playing longshots. 

My guess is both Mark and Anna are very unusual people.  If I were hoping to find a bride that was 25+ years younger than I was I'd be interested in learning how Mark made this happen, how his personality or temperament attracted a younger lady, what he did differently during the courtship process, or what financial or assets he may have brought to the table that helped him to be successful in his pursuit?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 20, 2012, 12:07:44 PM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

Because that guy has a lot more to offer such a young babe than you. It is THAT simple.

On the other site there was a discussion by Russian women as to what can a Western old fart can offer a young and nubile babe for her to marry him. I believe they started with a Porsche Carrera GT3.*  :smokin:

*For those without a sense of humor, please read between the lines.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 20, 2012, 12:09:10 PM
Sharon,

It does happen but the man has qualities that I suspect you lack. Sorry to brutal but women want to see a big rock and a monthly stipend.


OMG, I misread that.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 20, 2012, 12:13:51 PM

Be that as it may, I hope that Sharon understands what a powerful inducement that wealth is for many women and how the lack of it is great handicap for guys who seek extremely young girls.

Nah, I don't think so.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: patagonie on April 20, 2012, 01:31:18 PM
The important thing to me is that we have the same attitude about money, which in my case I prefer to wait and buy quality, and I always want to have more than enough money in the bank for a rainy day.  Some women get that, and others want to spend it all until you are completely broke.  More and more it seems to me that the women looking to go abroad (as in leaving Ukraine or Russia) are just looking for a sugar daddy. 

Because of their history and experiences, many people in the FSU have a different perspective about money than we do here in the west.  Russia has had a change of government and TWO huge devaluations since 1990.  They've seen saved money become virtually worthless, so they haven't the experience to understand how saving money is a positive alternative.  Money, to them is to be spent for things NOW before they go up in price.  It is not uncommon when a close friends gets extra money, for him to share it amongst his "droogs", with the assumption that in the future, if others are in the same circumstance, they will do the same for him.   

With your attitude, it won't be uncommon for an FSU woman to perceive you as "cheap".  Hopefully this brief explanation will help you understand where they're coming from and how you might start to change their perception of you.
.   

This is something newbies don't have in mind, you write a good post here.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 20, 2012, 02:45:42 PM
Yup Miracles do happen.

Shit happens too!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 20, 2012, 04:12:24 PM
Sharon, and what  is ur mother thinking about having 18 years old daughter in law?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 20, 2012, 07:14:21 PM
Hey, guys!

Thanks for the chance to enter into this conversation. 

My story is an exception.  I was not looking for a big age difference.  Anna didn't want to tell me her age for the first two months we were dating because she thought it would scare me off.  She would have been right.  I thought she was around 26 based on her maturity and humor.  She thought I was around 35 based on my personal energy.  By the time I found out what her age was, and recovered from the shock, I realized that I was already in love with her.  This was my half. 

When people see us together it's obvious we're very comfortable together.  People can tell that the age difference is not an issue with us, but it can be for many.

I've talked about this a lot because we seem to be the target for much of the conversation on the topic.  Even that TV show we were on tried to make it look like I was hunting for teens.  Sheesh.  I end up spending a lot of time helping guys focus on what will help them find and romance a good FSU woman.

In reference to the other comment made about Anna, in Anna's defense, when she talked about "old guys" at the AFA event, she was talking about guys who look old and act old.  I've never been accused of such things. 

I did meet my wife at an AFA social, but I had already dated in many other foreign countries by that point and I was able to try to make it work.  Today I have my own opinions about ways I feel would be much more natural for people to meet and interact in order to initiate first contact.  I strongly disagree with big box socials, no assigned translators, and no screening of the women.  I could say more, but I'll refrain.

Here's my opinion on the age difference: you shouldn't be looking for a number - your looking for a heart that beats like yours and brings you to life.  It's all about chemistry and connection.  Age becomes an issue in letter-writing because it's the first statistic everyone looks for.  I don't believe in first introductions being remote.  I believe in fact-to-face introductions - because you can't download a wife.  Every guy I know who is married today met his wife in person for the first time - not online.  The magic happens when you show up.  How can you really judge whether a person is a fit without being right there with her? 

OK, back to age gaps . . . Statistically speaking, there was a survey done with 1,800 people who had been married to a Russian or Ukrainian.  The average age difference was 9.8 years (I can provide the link if you'd like).

Culturally speaking, My wife has said that Ukrainian women often look 10 to 15 years older, even among Ukrainian men, because the guys there don't really like to settle down There's a great YouTube video interview with a Ukrainian guy talking about his opinions on all of this and confirming it).  Anna feels that men in their 20's are still sewing their wild oats.  A marriage minded man would probably be 30 and above.  That was her opinion of Ukrainian men and it carried forward when she dated Western men.

I really wish guys wouldn't make such a huge deal of this - and the ones who do seem to be the single guys.  This isn't about fantasy marketing.  It's about learning how to go and meet them in person, be comfortable so you can be in a good state of mind and enjoy your experience.  Give off a positive energy that attracts them. 

The top things I hear from the ladies is that they want a man who has a good sense of humor, or is fun to be around.  Why?  Because the Russian and Ukrainian men are so serious in a relationship.  You just have to be fascinated with them and their life and be fun to be around.  I'm not saying to be a comedian; but it's not hard to compete with a serious Russian or Ukrainian guy.

Shakespear - thank you for inviting me back to this forum.  I hadn't been here in a long while.  I posted an introduction message and was warmly greeted.  This seems like a great group. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2012, 07:50:30 PM
Hey, guys!

Welcome back to the forum Mark

(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4931868529393834&id=c59d9effa709771aaf973cdaaa1b7871)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 20, 2012, 08:21:38 PM

I was not looking for a big age difference. 

Here's my opinion on the age difference: you shouldn't be looking for a number - your looking for a heart that beats like yours and brings you to life.  It's all about chemistry and connection.  Age becomes an issue in letter-writing because it's the first statistic everyone looks for.  I don't believe in first introductions being remote.  I believe in fact-to-face introductions - because you can't download a wife.  Every guy I know who is married today met his wife in person for the first time - not online.  The magic happens when you show up.  How can you really judge whether a person is a fit without being right there with her? 

The top things I hear from the ladies is that they want a man who has a good sense of humor, or is fun to be around.  Why?  Because the Russian and Ukrainian men are so serious in a relationship.  You just have to be fascinated with them and their life and be fun to be around.  I'm not saying to be a comedian; but it's not hard to compete with a serious Russian or Ukrainian guy.


Mark (&Anna) Thank you for posting your opinions and expeirence. We hope you will put in your two cents from time to time. AvHdB
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 20, 2012, 10:41:34 PM
Thanks, guys.  It's nice to be back!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 21, 2012, 02:02:11 AM
I really wish guys wouldn't make such a huge deal of this - and the ones who do seem to be the single guys. 

Mark: In my experience the guys who make a big issue of this are usually the ones who are/would struggle to attract a lady 2 years younger, let alone 20.

Btw, welcome.  tiphat
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: rosco on April 21, 2012, 02:20:06 AM
Well written Mark & a nice read.

One thing that always plays on my mind is this theory that FSU guys don't settle early & tend to 'sew their oats' until maturing some time in their 30's. Well...we all know there's hardly heaps more women then men out there, and what strikes me is - Who are they doing all the sewing with?

I smell a rat.  :-X

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 21, 2012, 03:16:53 AM
Well written Mark & a nice read.

One thing that always plays on my mind is this theory that FSU guys don't settle early & tend to 'sew their oats' until maturing some time in their 30's. Well...we all know there's hardly heaps more women then men out there, and what strikes me is - Who are they doing all the sewing with?

I smell a rat.  :-X


No Rosco, Anna is right. Lots of girls view the the difference of 10-15 is normal (doesnt mean they date only within that age difference but if they meet someone they like within that age difference age will not be concern for many). You forgetting we have obligatory army for boys at 18. Those that are at 18 studying for Higher education will be allowed to finish study and will be called in straight away after they complete education. So if guy finished university at 22 by the time he comes out from army he will be 24/25, add few years of having fun and partying and he is closer to end of 20s/early 30s before the idea about settling down crosses his mind. Other thing that having serious relationship with a guy who still have army he will have to attend in future means girl will have to wait for him for 2/3 years and that puts many off
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: rosco on April 21, 2012, 04:34:23 AM
Well written Mark & a nice read.

One thing that always plays on my mind is this theory that FSU guys don't settle early & tend to 'sew their oats' until maturing some time in their 30's. Well...we all know there's hardly heaps more women then men out there, and what strikes me is - Who are they doing all the sewing with?

I smell a rat.  :-X


No Rosco, Anna is right. Lots of girls view the the difference of 10-15 is normal (doesnt mean they date only within that age difference but if they meet someone they like within that age difference age will not be concern for many). You forgetting we have obligatory army for boys at 18. Those that are at 18 studying for Higher education will be allowed to finish study and will be called in straight away after they complete education. So if guy finished university at 22 by the time he comes out from army he will be 24/25, add few years of having fun and partying and he is closer to end of 20s/early 30s before the idea about settling down crosses his mind. Other thing that having serious relationship with a guy who still have army he will have to attend in future means girl will have to wait for him for 2/3 years and that puts many off


I don't disagree and except from the army bit, it's not all that different to the UK. My question was;

Guys apparently take longer to settle down in the FSU and like to hop around, but if the action is so rife, there must be many girls to hop around with? Not judging anyone but its not exactly a culture of angels that's often portrayed.  :-\
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 21, 2012, 05:33:22 AM
I don't disagree and except from the army bit, it's not all that different to the UK. My question was;

Guys apparently take longer to settle down in the FSU and like to hop around, but if the action is so rife, there must be many girls to hop around with? Not judging anyone but its not exactly a culture of angels that's often portrayed.  :-\

In UK joining army is a choice, in Ukraine its obligation. Except those that on medical grounds not suitable for army (and as well those parents of who decided to pay bribe) will be hopping in army for 2/3 years instead of hopping with girls. I will not speculate what % of guys go through army as I simply dont know such statistics but I will safely says majority are going through it. I have no knowledge how often guys in UK can leave the base and visit home but most of guys in Ukraine in army may have only few short visits (such as weekend and those would be in some exceptional situations such as close family member passed away) within their time of service and some dont have possibility to leave base at all. They only can dream about hopping with girls. So of course after they return home most of guys for some time just hop instead of considering serious relationship. Thats creates shortage of men for serious relationship within same or close age difference.

Of course girls hopping too as well as many teenage girls hop. Keep in mind that law is not enforced in Ukraine regarding such matters in same way as on West.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 21, 2012, 09:15:17 AM
Yes very true, I witnessed 23 year old man, in relationship with 16 year old girl.
They have been together 2 years, family friends all thought no problem.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 10:30:00 AM
AGE GAP COMMENTARY FROM A GUY WITH A 25-YEAR AGE DIFFERENCE WITH HIS UKRAINIAN WIFE OF FIVE YEARS
by Mark Davis


POINT ONE: I did not go looking for a big age gap. When we met I thought she was about 26 based on her maturity and humor.  That would have made it a 16 year gap and I felt fine about that. 


POINT TWO: Anna DID go looking for an age gap. She was convinced that guys in their 20's were all cheaters because they were all sewing their wild oats.  She concluded that a marriage-minded guy would have to be over 30 - and she was dating guys in that age range in Ukraine when she was 18.  It was a strategy on her part.


POINT THREE: We were an obvious fit to anyone who saw us together. Those who have spent any time with us will say that we are such an amazing and comfortable fit and they concur that the age factor is not relevant to our chemistry with each other.  But you'd have to meet us in person to buy that.  If you're ever in SoCal please look us up and we can do lunch!


POINT FOUR: Anna sees the age gap as an advantage for her as a woman.  Anna feels that women age much faster than men.  A 50 year old guy can still be very handsome - but a 50 year old woman rarely is.  She has said on many occasions that she's glad that she'll always be the most beautiful woman in my life.

POINT FIVE: We have amazing passion and attraction for each other. 


POINT SIX: Life is always fascinating and never boring with different perspectives. In addition to observing the same things in life from two cultural perspectives - and from the difference of being different sexes - we also see them from different generations.  We NEVER lack in things to talk about just from our two observations of daily life.  I guess I get bored easily and I really love conversing with people who see things entirely differently.  Other people can be threatened by it and see it as potential conflict.  I feel sorry for them.


POINT SEVEN: We add value to each other's life. She keeps me connected with youthful activities and people with brilliant and young minds.  I am able to provide her with opportunities in life she wouldn't have had in Ukraine - and people in my circle she never would have met.  And I ALWAYS have the hottest woman in the room on my arm.


POINT EIGHT: It's not as big a gap as you'd think. When I'm finally getting close to the end of my life (mid-80's in my family history), we will have been married for nearly 40 years.  She will be approaching 60 and have had a wonderful life with me.


In spite of all of those benefits for us - we have dealt with judgement and harsh accusation.  I have been accused of being on the hunt for teens.  I have been told I was cruel to marry her knowing that I would die first.  Had anyone read the life expectancy tables for Ukrainians?  Men are expected to die at 63 and women at 75. 

Everyone's story is different.  But I always advise to look for the one you have a spark with - meet in person first and not online - she won't have an age on her name badge.  You'll just have to listen to your heart for a change.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 21, 2012, 10:38:24 AM
My above posts may seems to some readers and/or members as encouragement of relationships with big difference in age. So I probably should add that even if many girls in 20s dont see huge deal to date guys in 30s it doesnt mean that same girls will be in same way attracted to guys in 40s or 50s. Such relationships are rare. Mark and Anna situation is unusual and glad to hear they are both happy and made relationship with such age difference to work.  tiphat
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 10:56:12 AM
I think we should have a full Webinar discussion on the topic.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 21, 2012, 11:51:50 AM
I think that it's unproductive to defend one's choices. Detractors take it for rationalization and like-minded folk already understand.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Manny on April 21, 2012, 11:52:16 AM
I think we should have a full Webinar discussion on the topic.

We already have 189 pages and rising (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=386.0).  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 21, 2012, 12:02:37 PM
Remember the OP used the Mark Davis (MD) relationship as a justification as
to what age girl he would pursue. Where MD said specifically that he did NOT
seek a girl so young nor did she seek one so old, but that things fell into
place.

The OP has repeatedly sought girls who are young and has found mostly scams,
pay for letter sites where he receives letters from translators and Fat Yuri. The OP
has several threads outlining how he was cheated, scammed or attempted to be
scammed and refuses to believe that his methods are not sound or that most
normal 20 year old girls would not be interested in him.

MD in my opinion is the rare exception and there are literally millions of FSUW who
are older, wiser and every bit as pretty.

I have a son who is 21, and I have met many of the girls in the pack of friends he has.
While some of the girls are quite bright or funny, I could not imagine having an extended
conversation with ANY of them.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 21, 2012, 12:07:35 PM
I think that it's unproductive to defend one's choices. Detractors take it for rationalization and like-minded folk already understand.

Tom, I agree

I do think that we have the ability to inform a newbie, or a lurker, or a reasonable guy not
to be caught up in all of the agency hype.

The OP has made up his mind,

Schastlivo!

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 01:31:53 PM
Remember the OP used the Mark Davis (MD) relationship as a justification as
to what age girl he would pursue. Where MD said specifically that he did NOT
seek a girl so young nor did she seek one so old, but that things fell into
place.

2tallbill, thank you for speaking the obvious and clarifying my stance.

If someone wants to use me, or any other human being, as an excuse for poor judgement they failed a basic IQ test and get what they deserve.

No one should be 'seeking' an age, but a person they connect with - and I personally believe that search should happen when you're face to face and nobody displays their age on their forehead.  You have to actually interact with them and see who you spark with. 

Is this really such a foreign concept?  If you felt you liked someone on Match.com you would think you were dating until you met in person.  With International dating the long distance correspondence just mucks things up and creates bad communication and fantasy based expectations.  But it's with the letter-writing that guys get hung up on the Number one thing they look for in a profile: AGE.  Get over it.  Get on a plane.  and meet lots of them face to face
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 21, 2012, 01:39:19 PM
Remember the OP used the Mark Davis (MD) relationship as a justification as
to what age girl he would pursue. Where MD said specifically that he did NOT
seek a girl so young nor did she seek one so old, but that things fell into
place.

2tallbill, thank you for speaking the obvious and clarifying my stance.

If someone wants to use me, or any other human being, as an excuse for poor judgement they failed a basic IQ test and get what they deserve.

No one should be 'seeking' an age, but a person they connect with - and I personally believe that search should happen when you're face to face and nobody displays their age on their forehead.  You have to actually interact with them and see who you spark with. 

Is this really such a foreign concept?  If you felt you liked someone on Match.com you would think you were dating until you met in person.  With International dating the long distance correspondence just mucks things up and creates bad communication and fantasy based expectations.  But it's with the letter-writing that guys get hung up on the Number one thing they look for in a profile: AGE.  Get over it.  Get on a plane.  and meet lots of them face to face

Mark, so I understand this. You believe men should not look online, but travel and meet ladies?
Find a fit face to face and then communicate on a deeper level once returning home.
With obvious steps to follow.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 02:54:23 PM
Mark, so I understand this. You believe men should not look online, but travel and meet ladies?
Find a fit face to face and then communicate on a deeper level once returning home.
With obvious steps to follow.

Hey, nova scotia one:

You've asked a VERY BIG question and I can't just give a shortcut answer.  Sorry for this being such a long reply.

Yes, that is what I'm saying, but I also need to clarify it further because I would not recommend a guy just show up and hit the streets and bars looking for dates.

Let me make two observations and see if this makes sense to you:

First, I only know of two instances where a guy wrote to someone online, went to meet her, and it worked into a great marriage.  BUT, I do know a lot of happily married couples - but all of the rest of them (around 25 couples in all) met their wives while in Ukraine, face to face for their first contact.  That may just be my experience, but it has guided my strategies.

Second, in most every other area of my life, I do business with people who came to me recommend by someone I trust.  If I need an auto mechanic and my buddy says, 'hey, this guy was the best I've ever use' then my experience has been that I am more successful than just looking through ads for auto mechanics.  So my strategy with meeting women overseas has been that guys should be talking with people who actually know the ladies over there personally and can recommend some for them. 

Putting the two of these ideas together you will be dating amazing women that someone you trust has recommended you meet - and your chances of having great dates with sincere marriage-minded ladies sky rockets. 

Let me add one more comment to this. If you were to use this strategy, and the guy you trusted showed you these amazing profiles of the ladies he's lined up for you and you are blown away by their beauty and you can't wait to meet them!  But, your natural tendency is to want to write to her before you go.  Why?  Because that's how the current system works and because you want to do your own screening for yourself and "not waste your time" if you can find ways that you are not a fit.

For you to see what might be wrong with that strategy, let me propose what I see as the optimal sequence for getting to know a potential life partner:

One: You just want to see if you have basic attraction.  For example, you either like the profile your friend sent or you met her in person and something sparked your attention.  Since you are only being exposed to ladies that someone you trust has helped sort out as sincere in their motives, you are now only checking your heart to see who you are attracted to or feel a spark with. 

Two: The next step is to arrange the date and spend that first hour just being fun and seeing if she lights your world on fire.  Talk about movies you love, her town, job, life in your town, but keep it light.  You just want to see if there is a moment when you'd say, "Wow, there is something amazing about how this interaction is going!"  That's the chemistry test - and you'll only get a true sense of that after at least an hour or two of just interacting. 

Three: You need to find out if she feels the same energy between you - so ask, "I'm really enjoying spending time with you.  I came here to find someone special for my life and I'd like to spend more time getting to know you.  But I just want to make sure you are enjoying this time as much as I am and that you'd like to spend more time with me as well."  Wait for your answer.  Ukrainian women, especially ones that have been screened, will tell you honestly.  If yes, then you move on to step four:

Four:
Begin getting into the deeper aspects of the hopes and dreams of your life and hers and then - and only then - do you start to bring up the issues of kids/no kids - or whatever you pet 'deal breaker' is.

Five: Pursue the one that you connect with, who feels the same way, and has no 'deal breaker' issues - and close the boyfriend/girlfriend deal before you leave town to be continued through Skype until you can come back again to spend more time with just her.

Having said all of that, what I tell my guys is that once you have a date lined up with a lady (set up by a trusted friend), then you already know that you will be looking into her eyes in person very soon.  Once you are there in person you can begin the 5-step sequence as I described above.  You already have a date with her set.  You will be able to judge your chemistry for yourself soon enough.  But you will ruin first impressions by trying to force remote communications ahead of your face to face meeting.  Why?  Because the communication is only with a few of the senses, it is subject to misunderstanding, and then your first date is now spent clarifying what you meant or she meant in your letters instead of being present to experience if your chemistry is right.

That's my opinion on the whole thing. Those are my best suggestions.  Anything can work for the right types of circumstances and people (hey, I did meet my wife at a big box social).  It is just my experience that this process gives you the best odds for success.

Mark
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: rosco on April 21, 2012, 03:41:24 PM
Mark,

It's a very logical and well thought out process and I'm guessing for some, this might be this best way? Forgive me for being cynical but it's a bit of a stereotypical, American over analysed & premeditated way to date. Perhaps this method suits the blokes who are a little green or want the security of 3rd party organisation, but it's not for me.

I say be smart and contact girls with realistic profiles, increase exchanges with those who show genuine interest, put the hours in on Skype and then with gut instinct and honesty, make a decision on whether she's worth the travel. Once your sure get your ass on a plane. With anyone other than you and your girl, there's always an ulterior motive for the 3rd party to varying degrees.

Sure meeting women on the net or traveling abroad brings a few more problems, but don't over complicate dating. I've never liked dating through friends and really wouldn't get involved in an organised dating session. In my opinion you meet women yourself and you WILL know if a) she likes you & b) your matched.

For those with a bit of get up and go about them, you don't need led by the hand.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 21, 2012, 04:25:06 PM
I tend to agree with Rosco.

But Mark I see your points and with the right people would be valid way to proceed.
for the record I am not looking, was curious.

But your way eliminates 75% of people looking, especially north Americans!
Most men have above average incomes, that do this, that said. Most do not have unlimited funds
and more important unlimited vacation time. So take a guy who makes 75k a year and has 4 weeks vacation.
Likely higher than average. So he gets his contact, but has limited info. He heads off and realizes she want 3 kids
he's not sure if he wants any more! This is only one example, but it makes my point that at least some level of communications is good. I think you need the basics before the average guy can give up 10 days vacation
and 3000 to 4000 k of earning on a maybe.

Your plan would work of high income earners with plenty of free time, but lets be realistic, that not most people.
Maybe you only cater to the well off?

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 21, 2012, 04:35:00 PM
I think that it's unproductive to defend one's choices. Detractors take it for rationalization and like-minded folk already understand.

You are correct.  :8)

I have my own opinion on the subject, BUT that is MY opinion.

The way I see it is IF they are happy, who am I to judge.  :smokin:

I'd like to offer caution, tho.  :-X
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 21, 2012, 07:01:30 PM

Having said all of that, what I tell my guys is that once you have a date lined up with a lady (set up by a trusted friend), then you already know that you will be looking into her eyes in person very soon.  Once you are there in person you can begin the 5-step sequence as I described above.  You already have a date with her set.  You will be able to judge your chemistry for yourself soon enough.  But you will ruin first impressions by trying to force remote communications ahead of your face to face meeting.  Why?  Because the communication is only with a few of the senses, it is subject to misunderstanding, and then your first date is now spent clarifying what you meant or she meant in your letters instead of being present to experience if your chemistry is right.


 Hi Mark

 I agree with what you said about different approaches working differently for different people. Your strategy would probably be best for any guy who might not have the confidence to talk to women much or maybe is worried about going to a strange country and get around by himself. But to tell you the truth that was one of my favorite parts of the adventure.

 But I have to strongly disagree with what you wrote up above. I have gone to meet two women who I skyped with for 2-3 months before I took the trip. (The second one I married). When you are talking 5- 6-7 days a week for 2-3 months you've gotten to know each other pretty much well enough that there are no big misunderstandings by the time you meet! I could see it if you've only talked for a week or two before you made the trip, but I have yet to hear of a guy who talked to girl for a week and went off to go see her. Not from north america anyways!   :laugh:

 With both these girls we already discussed what we were looking for, what our plans for the future were, what each of us expected from the other. The chemistry was already established between us. So our ground time together was not wasted by trying to find this out. It was spent seeing if this person was really compatible with you, something that I would say you would learn on a second trip in your program.

 By the time I made the trip it didn't feel like I was meeting a complete stranger and although there was a little bit of nervousness, it didn't really feel like I were meeting her for the first time. That I think is a huge advantage on the first meeting for both people... obviously you are much more comfortable being around each other and thus are more yourself.

 And of course there were others who I met on skype who I never went to meet. Why? Because obviously we didn't find that we had anything in common.  This is something a person would be spending time doing during their limited time in Ukraine in your program.   

 So I am just trying to understand why you feel that communicating on skype before you first meet is not a good idea. Everything I have experienced is opposite of what you said. Can you please explain how you came to these conclusions about pre-trip skyping?       
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 21, 2012, 07:56:42 PM
Wow, shocker; I have to agree with everything that was said here!
You shouldn't be going to see someone you haven't even Skyped with


 ^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, now I'm confused. I just found one of your posts Mark. Its exactly opposite of what you are telling us here about not skyping before meeting her. Care to enlighten us?     ???   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 21, 2012, 09:01:17 PM
There seem to me so many different ways to have success (and failure). My feeling try to work what you feel comfortable with.

But the idea of NOT speaking before hand is almost a throw back to a distant time. With the woman I have met they uniformly have wanted to know more about me and I of them. Sorry snail mail/post cards are now distant memories.

While we can trust a winger or an agency in the end we have to meet. Some are prepared others do it on hope and intuition. Success to all!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 21, 2012, 09:13:23 PM
 I agree Av...

 We have the tools to do it, why wouldn't we use them to make the search easier? Its like going out to chop a tree down with an axe when you have a chainsaw sitting at home!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 09:38:53 PM
Wow, shocker; I have to agree with everything that was said here!
You shouldn't be going to see someone you haven't even Skyped with


 ^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, now I'm confused. I just found one of your posts Mark. Its exactly opposite of what you are telling us here about not skyping before meeting her. Care to enlighten us?     ???

Don't take the quote out of context.  That guy was asking whether the girl he was writing to was real or not.  One of the responses simply said that you shouldn't go to meet someone you haven't at least Skyped with.  I agreed.

I may have a system I recommend as best for best results from my experience, but, as I said, it's not the only way.  I've had guys who found me after they had already paid for an AFA tour and begged me for advice (two different ocassions).  I gave them every bit of advice I could on how to succeed in that environment because I want every guy who is man enough to get on a plane to have his best chance at success.  My advice to them was free of charge.  Both of the men I counseled before they went on AFA tours are now engaged - and they were each only one of two that came back with someone out of groups of 25 from each tour.  That means that 46 more men (23 from each tour) are now swearing that international dating is a fraud.  I feel sorry for them.  How can you tell them that their experience doesn't have to be that way. 

Please understand, I will try to give my best advice to any guy going no matter what system he decides to use - including letter-writing, Skyping, or other tour companies.

In the case of the quote you mentioned, I do not recommend that writing to someone and Skyping is the better than first meeting face to face, but if that is his decision, I will offer the best advice I can offer.

There is no contradiction.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 09:55:54 PM
So I am just trying to understand why you feel that communicating on skype before you first meet is not a good idea. Everything I have experienced is opposite of what you said. Can you please explain how you came to these conclusions about pre-trip skyping?     

You really made your case clear and I love what you said, that the sorting, writing, and Skyping was part of the fun for you.  You're where I was when I went on my first trip to Ukraine.  I'd already dated women from Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Brazil, Peru, and Venezuela before I went to Ukraine.  When I got there I was so self confident my attitude was, "Hey, I got this.  Just show me the women."  Part of it was naive, but part of it was that I had experience by then.

I don't deal with guys like us often.  The client that my wife and I had dinner with tonight is considering going, but is full of fear.  Why?  He had never event considered going out of the country before he found me on the web.  The entire concept was new.  Could that guy start writing and Skyping and then just go over there for a few months and be successful?  He'd never even try! 

My passion is to help a new generation of men give international romance serious consideration - and if they are bold enough to try - I want to offer them their best odds for success.

Many of the guys here could relocate, live, and date in any FSU country without much of a stretch.  You are certainly in that camp.

My counsel is mostly going to be directed toward the new seeker.  Make sense?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Donhollio on April 21, 2012, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: Mark

The top things I hear from the ladies is that they want a man who has a good sense of humor, or is fun to be around.  Why?  Because the Russian and Ukrainian men are so serious in a relationship.  You just have to be fascinated with them and their life and be fun to be around.  I'm not saying to be a comedian; but it's not hard to compete with a serious Russian or Ukrainian guy.

  My girl told me she didn't want to marry a comedian, if she did she would of married some guy from the circus, in the end she still married a clown.

 
Quote from: Mark
  I posted an introduction message and was warmly greeted.  This seems like a great group. 

  Enjoy the warmth, the honeymoon usually doesn't last past the first couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 10:03:21 PM
Your plan would work of high income earners with plenty of free time, but lets be realistic, that not most people.
Maybe you only cater to the well off?


I completely understand what you're saying.  Perhaps it souinds like I'm describing a $12,500 AFA executive program.  Consider what I'm recommending to be a hybrid of an executive program and a group program for under $5k.

But you and I both know that the raw cost for the trip is only part of it.  There's visa attorney fees, spending cash, return trips, and then the final trip to bring her home.

I have seen it done for just under $10k, but realistically it's going to cost closer to $15k over the course of that full year.

It doesn't take a rich guy, but it does take a guy who has saved or can come up with about $15k to dedicate to this over the course of that year.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 21, 2012, 10:04:44 PM

Quote from: Mark
  I posted an introduction message and was warmly greeted.  This seems like a great group. 
  Enjoy the warmth, the honeymoon usually doesn't last past the first couple of weeks.

Point taken.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 21, 2012, 10:48:16 PM
So I am just trying to understand why you feel that communicating on skype before you first meet is not a good idea. Everything I have experienced is opposite of what you said. Can you please explain how you came to these conclusions about pre-trip skyping?     

You really made your case clear and I love what you said, that the sorting, writing, and Skyping was part of the fun for you.  You're where I was when I went on my first trip to Ukraine.  I'd already dated women from Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Brazil, Peru, and Venezuela before I went to Ukraine.  When I got there I was so self confident my attitude was, "Hey, I got this.  Just show me the women."  Part of it was naive, but part of it was that I had experience by then.

I don't deal with guys like us often.  The client that my wife and I had dinner with tonight is considering going, but is full of fear.  Why?  He had never event considered going out of the country before he found me on the web.  The entire concept was new.  Could that guy start writing and Skyping and then just go over there for a few months and be successful?  He'd never even try! 

My passion is to help a new generation of men give international romance serious consideration - and if they are bold enough to try - I want to offer them their best odds for success.

Many of the guys here could relocate, live, and date in any FSU country without much of a stretch.  You are certainly in that camp.

My counsel is mostly going to be directed toward the new seeker.  Make sense?

 Ok, I have a better understanding now. Your clients are pretty much who I said would be interested in your services at the start my post. Guys who probably  never would contact a lady themselves or take a trip if they didn't do it through an agency like yours. I could understand why you would recommend guys like that not too have any pre meeting contact. Hope you're not having too many problems with those strong willed Ukrainian girls scaring too many of them away!   :laugh:

 As for the other post, I could understand now why you said what you did, and commend you for trying to help the guy out by offering to contact her for him to see if she was legit.   :thumbsup:

 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 21, 2012, 11:09:00 PM
The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Wild Orchid on April 22, 2012, 12:50:08 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Ade on April 22, 2012, 12:56:32 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)

No, really, say it like you mean it.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Wild Orchid on April 22, 2012, 01:08:48 AM


No, really, say it like you mean it.  :laugh:
yep.. what was i thinking?  Time to log out again

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 22, 2012, 02:37:00 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)

Yes, really shocking isn’t it? I sometimes wonder at times what planet these guys are on because as we all know, every lady’s dream is to meet a single man with no experience of marriage or fatherhood. Even better if he still lives with Momma when he’s 40.

It’s a bit like if you were planning to scale half a dozen hills in the Himalayas. The last thing you would want is to be accompanied by someone with climbing experience, who knows his way around a bit and has been there before.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: rosco on April 22, 2012, 04:08:38 AM
Hi Mark,

I'm not disagreeing with you or trying to give you a hard time here. You've made it clear who you pitch at and this is good for these guys. I just think its important for newbies to look at all their options before deciding what method suits them. As you said, some guys who already did tours have probably been given the wrong impression & will never return. And to balance this - there's probably guys who did it our way and got burnt?!

I tend to agree with d672, planning the trip, discussing apartments with my girl, the adventure ahead and then ultimately spending time with this girl alone is part of the adventure. This way gives you a real feel for the country and it's people, you don't have a safety net which can make you ignorant to your surroundings. For me this is real life with real people and I would hate to do it with a wingman too. Whilst it might be fun with one of my best friends, on some level it's going to stop me from giving my girl the full commitment the trip deserves.

I'm from Edinburgh and I guess some people like to arrive, pay full whack and get the spoon fed tour of the city. Others like to immerse themselves in what's on offer and embrace the adventure.

Neither way is particularly right or wrong, but I know what way I'd do it :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 22, 2012, 05:23:15 AM
Even better if he still lives with Momma when he’s 40.

Not necessary with Momma, living in nice round preserving cookie jar will be sufficient  :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 22, 2012, 05:38:31 AM
I’m more on Mark’s side of the fence on this one. Early in my RSU adventures I communicated with a lady for several weeks before I met her and even spoke to her on the phone. All was well and we got on fine. When I met her face to face there was zero chemistry from my side (probably hers too) and we just had the one date. Fortunately I had a plan B, C, and D. From the other side, I just about knew nothing about the ladies I have really connected with before I met them. Whilst I am neither shy nor lacking social abilities, I also realise that I’m not prepared to invest time and energy with an e-person I have never met.

rosco: I know where you are coming from regarding pre communication as being part of the adventure, but I also think there is some excitement to be had by going 'commando'. For every story like yours there are probably 10 where things didn’t work out so well.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 22, 2012, 05:40:06 AM
Even better if he still lives with Momma when he’s 40.

Not necessary with Momma, living in nice round preserving cookie jar will be sufficient  :laugh:

Can you stop trying to appease the American market please. Biscuits will be just fine.  :8)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 22, 2012, 08:57:09 AM
That's my opinion on the whole thing. Those are my best suggestions.  Anything can work for the right types of circumstances and people (hey, I did meet my wife at a big box social).  It is just my experience that this process gives you the best odds for success. 

Mark very interesting and informative read. 

I agree with your assessment than most pre-travel communications is time wasted.  I have a couple of questions.

If you are seeking a younger bride, how important is income and financial security in the process?  I know that all women seek some level of financial security when they marry but is it more important when a wide-age courtship is involved.  Without being too specific, I would guess that your income, like mine is in the 2% targeting by our President.  How much did this factor come into play during your courtship.  Is there a minimum level of income or financial assets needed to realistically pursue a bride from the FSU?

Sex and intimacy during courtship.  I'm one of the leading proponents of the "5 Date Sex Rule" when courting women from the FSU.  No sex by the fifth date and she's just not that in to you.  That rule is modified by the corollary that sex on the first date can be worse than no sex in 5 dates.  In your strategy what role or indicator (if any) does sex play in the process when an older man seeks a younger woman?   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 22, 2012, 09:10:04 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)

Would it be any better the other way around?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 22, 2012, 09:37:59 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)

Would it be any better the other way around?

Instant family she does not have to work for 9 months X 4 and she will get twice the advice.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 22, 2012, 10:00:52 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)

Would it be any better the other way around?

Instant family she does not have to work for 9 months X 4 and she will get twice the advice.

I meant if Mark had two kids and four ex-wives...
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Anteros on April 22, 2012, 04:55:28 PM
The important thing to me is that we have the same attitude about money, which in my case I prefer to wait and buy quality, and I always want to have more than enough money in the bank for a rainy day.  Some women get that, and others want to spend it all until you are completely broke.  More and more it seems to me that the women looking to go abroad (as in leaving Ukraine or Russia) are just looking for a sugar daddy. 

Because of their history and experiences, many people in the FSU have a different perspective about money than we do here in the west.  Russia has had a change of government and TWO huge devaluations since 1990.  They've seen saved money become virtually worthless, so they haven't the experience to understand how saving money is a positive alternative.  Money, to them is to be spent for things NOW before they go up in price.  It is not uncommon when a close friends gets extra money, for him to share it amongst his "droogs", with the assumption that in the future, if others are in the same circumstance, they will do the same for him.   

With your attitude, it won't be uncommon for an FSU woman to perceive you as "cheap".  Hopefully this brief explanation will help you understand where they're coming from and how you might start to change their perception of you.

I appreciate your answer but this is not my first rodeo.  I am already aware of the economic history of the fsu and how their perception on money is different from ours.  so how do you suggest that the two can be merged??  can it be done successfully?  I am sure from what I have read here, which is extensive, that there are actually russian women who are occasionally frugal, not cheap frugal.  there is a difference. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 22, 2012, 08:52:11 PM
Mark & Anna Davis
EuropeanDreamConnections.com

This guy is using this forum to promote his business venture? why is it even a topic?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 23, 2012, 01:26:38 AM
4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!..  (:)

Wild Orchid: Yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious - I had four kids (three of them older than my Ukrainian wife) and two ex-wives.  I could tell you more about how she brilliantly worked all of these relationships, but that's for another day.  But, yes, those were shocks to her as she learned about those on our second date.

Mark & Anna Davis
EuropeanDreamConnections.com

This guy is using this forum to promote his business venture? why is it even a topic?

Justmd, yes, I'm a commercial member - I was invited to come back here by Shakespear, because of this thread.  This thread was started by sharing a link to a video of my wife telling her story. 

I think I can both offer good advice and stay away from soliciting at the same time.  Everything I do here is free.  I don't think my being a commercial member means that my experience is without value.  We're seeing a lot of success and I'm offering help to men who are going on their own, with other agencies, or with mine at no cost.  The goal is the same; better experiences for men who go and more successful couples.

My experience is my own and my advice will always be slanted toward helping newbies.  I also respect where others are coming from who are more comfortable with other ways to meet and marry overseas.

But I totally understand where you're coming from in wanting to discount the opinion of a commercial member. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 23, 2012, 01:33:11 AM
Hope you're not having too many problems with those strong willed Ukrainian girls scaring too many of them away!   :laugh:

 As for the other post, I could understand now why you said what you did, and commend you for trying to help the guy out by offering to contact her for him to see if she was legit.   :thumbsup:

d672:

First, thanks for the good word.  I'll let you know if he contacts me and we do the research for him. 

I had to laugh at your first comment about the 'strong-willed' Ukrainian girls scaring the guys away - you have no idea how true that is!  I try to warn them and put it as nicely as I can.  We talk about how they are "authentic" and are comfortable talking about nearly any subject and will give them a straight answer.  They're still never ready for it.  It's just way too foreign for Western guys.  But, give them a few days and suddenly it's the greatest characteristic!  You should come some time just to observe.  The roller coaster of emotions is better than any movie and twice the fun!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 23, 2012, 01:36:54 AM
The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.

Tom, you are right on the money.  This is where a really experienced guy could chart his own course, write letters, Skype, and set up his trip for himself successfully.  But even among experienced men, there are few who know how to write to foreign women without coming across too eager, egotistical, or eccentric. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 23, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
 

I had to laugh at your first comment about the 'strong-willed' Ukrainian girls scaring the guys away - you have no idea how true that is!  I try to warn them and put it as nicely as I can.  We talk about how they are "authentic" and are comfortable talking about nearly any subject and will give them a straight answer.  They're still never ready for it.  It's just way too foreign for Western guys.  But, give them a few days and suddenly it's the greatest characteristic!  You should come some time just to observe.  The roller coaster of emotions is better than any movie and twice the fun!

 That was the FIRST thing I thought when you described the type of guys who usually used your service... tagging along just to see how they'd react probably would be a blast!    :laugh:

 Recently my wife translated for a member here who went to her city to meet a girl he was interested in. Before he left I gave him a heads up about how strong willed these girls were and even teased him that between his girl and my wife he probably wouldn't have any say in what he was going to do while he was there. He laughed about that and said he was sure he could take care of himself.

  One day while he was there I skyped him and asked him how things were going. He said well... last night we planned we would rent some quads and go riding this morning. So I woke up and started getting ready for that. Your wife showed up and the girls got together and started chattering in Ukrainian for about 15 minutes. Then your wife came up to me and said, ok, we changed our minds, we're going to the museum instead.

 I started laughing and asked him what he did next. He said, I already learned that I could never win an arguement with two Ukrainian women so I just went to the bedroom and started changing into different clothes to go to the museum in!   :chuckle:   

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 23, 2012, 08:06:16 PM
The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.

Tom, you are right on the money.  This is where a really experienced guy could chart his own course, write letters, Skype, and set up his trip for himself successfully.  But even among experienced men, there are few who know how to write to foreign women without coming across too eager, egotistical, or eccentric.

There are surely a number of guys who are pretty good at written communication but are
fairly shy in person especially in a group setting.

Elena of Elena's models said (in Russian advice for women in her agency)
"Men who come to marriage agencies, are usually shy and do not believe
that intelligent, educated and attractive woman would be interested in them."

[note: translation mine, not professional]

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 23, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
If people understand their strengths/weaknesses and have a bit of intelligence, they can develop strategies to market themselves favorably. For example, young guys (who might be a bit weird) could do very well on the free sites because the search engine is their friend. Old fossils, who have thick skins and who interact well with others would be in their element on (Russian) women's forums. Attractive men who are personable would be best suited for face-to-face meetings in major FSU cities (but not the capitals unless they have thick wallets). Wealthy men will do well anywhere and Sterlin should stay home.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: mendeleyev on April 23, 2012, 09:00:19 PM
Quote
Wealthy men will do well anywhere and Sterlin should stay home.

 tiphat  Now that was classic.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 23, 2012, 10:29:55 PM
"I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant."

Shy is not a word that could ever be used to describe me. I meet a lady who impressed me and I went to her as soon I was able to show that she was special and rare to me, in 2 weeks I will continue to show her.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 23, 2012, 10:41:18 PM
If people understand their strengths/weaknesses and have a bit of intelligence, they can develop strategies to market themselves favorably. For example, young guys (who might be a bit weird) could do very well on the free sites because the search engine is their friend. Old fossils, who have thick skins and who interact well with others would be in their element on (Russian) women's forums. Attractive men who are personable would be best suited for face-to-face meetings in major FSU cities (but not the capitals unless they have thick wallets). Wealthy men will do well anywhere and Sterlin should stay home.

excellent analysis
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 23, 2012, 11:37:21 PM
I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

2tallbill:

I love that you did this poll.  By the way, one of my responses was that I wish I could be 2tallbill! Awesome humor.

Yes, I agree with the quote from Elena's Models and what was said; a lot of the men looking at International Dating solutions seems to have some shyness as a factor in their decision to look overseas.  Why?  They believe what they have heard: that they will be accepted for who they are overseas.

I believe there are three kinds of men in the world: Adventurers, Achievers, and Altruists. The first two are self-explanatory.  The last one covers about half of the men though.  I came up with this label instead of "amiables and analyticals" because their greatest asset is that they are altruistic - giving in nature - and true to themselves.  These guys hate the bar scene and pickup artists because they feel they would have to become something they are not in order to win.  They can't compete with bullies and braggarts (their perception) and refuse to become a 'bad boy' in order to attract a female.

So, my observation is this: altruistic personality types are tired of being told that they are not desirable in Western society to the women - and they don't know what they can do to win.  They don't know how they are supposed to behave.  They don't know what they are supposed to say.  So they say little and refrain from interactions so they are not embarrassed and rejected - again. 

What I do with a guy like this may seem cruel to some, but I have to get his hopes up.  We can manifest positive expectations and we can attract rejection.  The Law of Attraction has never been more real - but now they have a reason to believe things could be different.  I have to get him expecting that women will give him the time of day and be interested in him for who he is.  I know I'm going to get a lot of tomatoes thrown at me for trying to create hope when there are so many other bad stories, but it has to start there - or why would anyone want to try.  I also would not do it if I could not deliver.

Once he is in UKraine he has to become comfortable with his surroundings.  He's in a new country and about to be in the presence of women more beautiful than any he's been around before.  We'll start with a comfortable dinner that has no expectations, but helps him to acclimate.  My wife will had pick ladies to invite that we feel would be comfortable for him and we just have a classic Ukrainian dinner.  I tell him to become fascinated with everything around him as a way to prompt conversation (if needed).  Comment on the food.  Ask about the city.  The girls always do their part to be fascinated with the men.  Round one - "Ukraine is not so bad and it was actually nice to be around beautiful women" they say to themselves.

Next, they get a lifeline - their translator.  They spend lunch with just that person the next day so the two of them become acquainted and she gets a better idea of how to help him win.  She is not on the clock but paid for the whole week and trained to be his assistant as well as translator for the week. 

There are four other things I'd do to help him, not only come out of his shell but get really excited with this new experience; but you get the idea.  Acclimate - lifeline - date.  The formula can be applied to many systems, not just mine.

Thanks for asking.  :-)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: patagonie on April 24, 2012, 04:56:12 AM
The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.

Tom, you are right on the money.  This is where a really experienced guy could chart his own course, write letters, Skype, and set up his trip for himself successfully.  But even among experienced men, there are few who know how to write to foreign women without coming across too eager, egotistical, or eccentric.

Correct, i suffered many crashes in writing and being literate. You need to understand how does it works, and the path to use is narrow.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 24, 2012, 08:16:05 AM

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

Bill, I went to that thread and voted. Also left you the following comment:

You should consider changing this: I give speeches in front of hundreds on a regular basis about my personal life to this I have given speeches in front of hundreds on on more than one occasion.

This would be a better indicator if you really want to judge shyness. I would have voted for the change since I've been doing this for around 30 years.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 24, 2012, 02:19:09 PM

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

Bill, I went to that thread and voted. Also left you the following comment:

You should consider changing this: I give speeches in front of hundreds on a regular basis about my personal life to this I have given speeches in front of hundreds on on more than one occasion.

This would be a better indicator if you really want to judge shyness. I would have voted for the change since I've been doing this for around 30 years.

I am no longer a mod and can't change the poll questions. I guess I can ask one of the
mods.

Bill
Title: Miracles
Post by: 2tallbill on April 24, 2012, 02:35:37 PM

I love that you did this poll.  By the way, one of my responses was that I wish I could be 2tallbill! Awesome humor.

There are four other things I'd do to help him, not only come out of his shell but get really excited with this new experience; but you get the idea.  Acclimate - lifeline - date.  The formula can be applied to many systems, not just mine.

Thanks for asking.  :-)

I agree with your ideas for shy guys, build them up a bit and then provide
plenty of support and backup.

I watched one of your web seminars and found it to be pretty good. I think
that you should put one together about some of the various myths that
exist out there. (I put together a poll as well) I am sure that you have heard
of all kinds of myths about FSUW both positive and negative and probably
spend quite a bit of time on mythology education.

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=8883.0
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 24, 2012, 07:48:34 PM
I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 24, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 24, 2012, 09:11:19 PM
I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

I would lean more towards building a relationship with her with letters,phone calls,sharing pictures and doing Skype video calls than having a wingman or guide.

She will be impressed if the shy man is being bold.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 25, 2012, 04:17:19 AM
I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

I would lean more towards building a relationship with her with letters,phone calls,sharing pictures and doing Skype video calls than having a wingman or guide.

She will be impressed if the shy man is being bold.

If he is shy he might only stay at the letter writing stage.

I see the winger as an asset shy or not. If the Wingman or Wingwoman (winger) is good they will be able to read better the woman than you. If you have to wonder what did she mean really this is what you are paying for. Perhaps you might forgive some of her behavior to culture but your winger might say no this person is not what you assume or think she is.

In fact this is about the same as a taking a new girl friend to meet your friends and acquaintances and seeing there reactions and hearing there feelings.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 25, 2012, 12:43:36 PM
I'm hosting the Topic on my Webinar tomorrow night . . . FYI

http://archive.aweber.com/europeandream/BWEl./h/Age_Differences_What_do.htm
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 25, 2012, 01:58:03 PM
Mark:

You might have overlooked this:
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=16720.msg261263#msg261263

If you have time, I'd be interested in your thoughts on these two topics.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 25, 2012, 07:02:24 PM
I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

I would lean more towards building a relationship with her with letters,phone calls,sharing pictures and doing Skype video calls than having a wingman or guide.

She will be impressed if the shy man is being bold.

If he is shy he might only stay at the letter writing stage.

I see the winger as an asset shy or not. If the Wingman or Wingwoman (winger) is good they will be able to read better the woman than you. If you have to wonder what did she mean really this is what you are paying for. Perhaps you might forgive some of her behavior to culture but your winger might say no this person is not what you assume or think she is.

In fact this is about the same as a taking a new girl friend to meet your friends and acquaintances and seeing there reactions and hearing there feelings.

To each his own and what ever works, I preferred to stay away from an agency,guides or translators.If a man is not able to read a woman and needs another man/woman to tell him what she is thinking then maybe he should stay home?   :innocent:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 25, 2012, 11:41:52 PM
That's my opinion on the whole thing. Those are my best suggestions.  Anything can work for the right types of circumstances and people (hey, I did meet my wife at a big box social).  It is just my experience that this process gives you the best odds for success. 

Mark very interesting and informative read. 

I agree with your assessment than most pre-travel communications is time wasted.  I have a couple of questions.

If you are seeking a younger bride, how important is income and financial security in the process?  I know that all women seek some level of financial security when they marry but is it more important when a wide-age courtship is involved.  Without being too specific, I would guess that your income, like mine is in the 2% targeting by our President.  How much did this factor come into play during your courtship.  Is there a minimum level of income or financial assets needed to realistically pursue a bride from the FSU?

Sex and intimacy during courtship.  I'm one of the leading proponents of the "5 Date Sex Rule" when courting women from the FSU.  No sex by the fifth date and she's just not that in to you.  That rule is modified by the corollary that sex on the first date can be worse than no sex in 5 dates.  In your strategy what role or indicator (if any) does sex play in the process when an older man seeks a younger woman?   

Shakespear:

Great questions.

First, I have to challenge your first line, "If you are seeking a younger bride . . . " You should NOT be "seeking" a younger bride.  You should be seeking someone that rocks your world - the chemistry - that spark.  She may be one year younger or 10 years younger.  When you have someone in your life who lights your world on fire you won't care how old she is!  My average client has LESS than a 10 year age difference - but those are amazing relationships.

Second, the question has to do with economic information that is shared with the lady.  My answer is NONE; but allow me to explain.  My wife didn't even really ask to understand what I did for a living until we'd been married over six months.  Why?  She deduced that if I had enough resources to make the trip to see her then I had enough to support a family.  That was all the financial information she needed.  She never asked me for any money during our entire courtship.  I advise men that they should not feel any compulsion to share their financial information; but indicate that they can provide for a family and her if she were to become part of it.  Once a guy is her boyfriend he does need to take over some financial roles, but a good girl will know not to ask for things.  The good man will want to take care of his woman and he can be generous with her since she's not asking.  The details vary from couple to couple.  The average income of our guys is around $60k.  I've had only a few top 2% clients.  And I've had a few that brought her home to a one bedroom apartment and could only afford to go back when it was time to bring her home.  They're all together today - and money was not a topic of debate or conflict.

Third, the question of sex will vary from person to person.   People who know what they are looking for will tend to attract the same types of people to themselves.  Some guys go over to 'nail' girls and they usually find the prostitutes (I screen these out from my tours, but I know that many men do this).  I have had guys who waited until the wedding night.  I've had a few who became intimate their first week that they met.  Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   You should NOT have a date number in mind.  This isn't America.  This isn't a, "You give me sex or we're through" dating scene.  I tell guys to think about the fact that you're looking for a wife.  Imagine five years from now as you look back at the week you met and your subsequent courtship, were you there as the man of her dreams or were you just trying to get in her pants?  This is your courtship with a woman who may dream about things we call traditional values.  I recently had a client become engaged.  During his first week with his lady she told him, "We have had enough dates that we would normally be having sex by now, but I want this to be about something special that could last a lifetime.  I'd like to wait until your next trip.  Remember, if we marry you can have me every day for the rest of your life!"  SHE GETS IT.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 26, 2012, 04:02:19 AM
Quote
Someone had posted two of our videos on a public forum and labeled
the string, "Miracles Do Happen".  In less than one week there were
nearly 90 responses and many did not see us as "miracle".

I posted it. I found it by chance in YouTube. By that time I didn't know who Mark and Anna are. I wouldn't imagine that it would be a hot topic and that Mark will come to take part in it. 

Quote
I came up with this label instead of "amiables and analyticals" because their greatest asset is that they are altruistic - giving in nature - and true to themselves.  These guys hate the bar scene and pickup artists because they feel they would have to become something they are not in order to win.  They can't compete with bullies and braggarts (their perception) and refuse to become a 'bad boy' in order to attract a female.

So, my observation is this: altruistic personality types are tired of being told that they are not desirable in Western society to the women - and they don't know what they can do to win.  They don't know how they are supposed to behave.  They don't know what they are supposed to say.  So they say little and refrain from interactions so they are not embarrassed and rejected - again.

This is pretty much like me. But I don't think someone can win if he pretends to be someone he is not. I think the only way to attract is to be yourself. Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice. Many guys say when they are in a company of women they are not attracted to - they feel comfort because they don't want them, and then can be attractive to the women. But when they meet woman they attracted to - they become nervous and lose their head and therefore not behave naturally. They try to be liked and nice and this is false. They are not themselves. It's all about self esteem and confidence. Having failures harm the self esteem, and successes build it up.

Quote
.If a man is not able to read a woman and needs another man/woman to tell him what she is thinking then maybe he should stay home?

It would be better to find something like Mark's workshop at home.       

After reading the story I wouldn't say it was "miracle".     
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 26, 2012, 04:59:36 AM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: patagonie on April 26, 2012, 06:14:43 AM
Quote
Someone had posted two of our videos on a public forum and labeled
the string, "Miracles Do Happen".  In less than one week there were
nearly 90 responses and many did not see us as "miracle".

I posted it. I found it by chance in YouTube. By that time I didn't know who Mark and Anna are. I wouldn't imagine that it would be a hot topic and that Mark will come to take part in it. 

Quote
I came up with this label instead of "amiables and analyticals" because their greatest asset is that they are altruistic - giving in nature - and true to themselves.  These guys hate the bar scene and pickup artists because they feel they would have to become something they are not in order to win.  They can't compete with bullies and braggarts (their perception) and refuse to become a 'bad boy' in order to attract a female.

So, my observation is this: altruistic personality types are tired of being told that they are not desirable in Western society to the women - and they don't know what they can do to win.  They don't know how they are supposed to behave.  They don't know what they are supposed to say.  So they say little and refrain from interactions so they are not embarrassed and rejected - again.

This is pretty much like me. But I don't think someone can win if he pretends to be someone he is not. I think the only way to attract is to be yourself. Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice. Many guys say when they are in a company of women they are not attracted to - they feel comfort because they don't want them, and then can be attractive to the women. But when they meet woman they attracted to - they become nervous and lose their head and therefore not behave naturally. They try to be liked and nice and this is false. They are not themselves. It's all about self esteem and confidence. Having failures harm the self esteem, and successes build it up.

Quote
.If a man is not able to read a woman and needs another man/woman to tell him what she is thinking then maybe he should stay home?

It would be better to find something like Mark's workshop at home.       

After reading the story I wouldn't say it was "miracle".     
You are developping interesting clues, but probably because of language, it is difficult to understand you.
If i understand you through the lines i would correct some issues about what you "told" us :

The only way to attract is to be yourself / unfortunately in western countries this is not enough and doesn't fit with the true (TRUE has to be shifted) expectations of WM.

Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice / absolutely true but comfort is only one of the piece of attraction.

they feel comfort because they don't want them, and then can be attractive to the women. But when they meet woman they attracted to - they become nervous and lose their head and therefore not behave naturally / PUA are enough trained to not become nervous and to not loose their head. In fact guys who are loosing their heads in any relationship involving male/female interactions are loosing a part of their power with the woman. You have surely noticed that sometime when you are not interested by a woman you show her the appropriate behavior which attracts her.

They try to be liked and nice and this is false / Who ? PUA, surely not, absolutely not. A lot guys, nice guys yes.

They are not themselves. It's all about self esteem and confidence. Having failures harm the self esteem, and successes build it up / you are right self esteem and confidence is the KEY. The key for many things : to have a good health, to prevent you from suicide, to attract women, to keep a long term relationship. You only see in movies or in pinky romance the shy guys, shaking while standing with his bouquet in the hand, in front ot a house waiting the lady to get out. She smiles when out on the sidewalks and she is already having a crush for this clunky guy..... The rest of the story you know it : "They get married and happily grow 3 childrens". In true life this almost never works letting a bunch of guys believe in this pinky BS inherited of a generation of a true dreamer (and we don't speak about women producer, just men).
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 26, 2012, 06:56:32 AM
Quote
You are developping interesting clues, but probably because of language, it is difficult to understand you.

For this I'm here, and if you didn't understand something, you can ask and I will clarify for you.

Quote
If i understand you through the lines i would correct some issues about what you "told" us :

I meant exactly what I "told" you.

Quote
The only way to attract is to be yourself / unfortunately in western countries this is not enough and doesn't fit with the true (TRUE has to be shifted) expectations of WM.

It is a condition. I mean to behave naturally. It maybe not enough and require more skills, but I meant it is the basic.

Quote
Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice / absolutely true but comfort is only one of the piece of attraction.

Sure there is more, but not possible without comfort.

Quote
You have surely noticed that sometime when you are not interested by a woman you show her the appropriate behavior which attracts her.

This is exactly what I mean. 

Quote
They try to be liked and nice and this is false / Who ? PUA, surely not, absolutely not. A lot guys, nice guys yes.

Will you excuse me, I don't know what PUA is. I talked about guys who feel uncomfortable to approach women who attract them and start conversation, even though they want it, but they luck of experience. If they would behave naturally they could do it. If somebody try to be nice it's not a natural nice.

Quote
/ you are right self esteem and confidence is the KEY.

I know, self esteem follows the right actions. It something you must earn. Being rejected makes bad to the self esteem for many guys. The difference between low self esteem and the high one is that the last doesn't care to be rejected and therefore try over and over again. The pick up experts compare it to a baby who learns to walk.



 



 

 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 10:53:19 AM
Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   

Most relationships fail whether people consummate them or not, however.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 26, 2012, 12:05:23 PM
Most relationships fail whether people consummate them or not, however.

That's not statistically true - at least not with international marriages.  And 99% consummate long before the wedding day.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 26, 2012, 12:45:45 PM
That's not statistically true - at least not with international marriages.  And 99% consummate long before the wedding day. 

Mark:

The US divorce rate is somewhere close to 50%.  With all the language and cultural difference, one would assume that the international marriage divorce rate would be higher (especially the WM-FSU woman marriage).

Are you advocating this is not true?

Shakey
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Manny on April 26, 2012, 01:20:17 PM
I have had guys who waited until the wedding night. 

Most people would consider that extremely foolish. I have yet to meet any woman who would go for that either. Women are not stupid; they want to make sure a guy is not a dud in the sack. No woman wants to marry Mr Floppy.

I've had a few who became intimate their first week that they met.  Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   

I call BS here. Here in Europe, intimacy within the first week would be quite normal in any country and across any age and social group with well adjusted people who had healthy attitudes to sex. In the FSU also; if not more so. You are trying to create 'norms' here that might sit well with your clients that actually are completely untrue.

However, men who are more socially awkward around women, or those who seek huge age gaps, will end up waiting longer due to inexperience. Religious types may like to wait until a wedding.

I have yet to see anything anywhere that supports your theory that those who got intimate within a week have shorter relationships as a result. In fact, if you use the forum demographic, the converse is the case. Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes. Because the woman simply wasn't that into him and the guy couldn't read it.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 26, 2012, 01:24:45 PM
There is no statistics on on FSUW / WM
But I went looking last  year and found a small study from a University
in US 36% divorce rate and a larger study form the UK which was 41 or 42 %
Don't have the sites now and this was based on International relationships.
They were both very reputable Universities.
Not sure how much that helps, but both numbers were lower than US and Canada
which is over 50%.

Only logic, I could put to this is if you get to the point of marriage and all it takes to
accomplish, that if there is a problem you will likely work harder to resolve it!
Than to just walk away, which seems to be common place in north America now.

I do think we had a discussion on this last year, some where.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 26, 2012, 01:28:51 PM
I have had guys who waited until the wedding night. 

Most people would consider that extremely foolish. I have yet to meet any woman who would go for that either. Women are not stupid; they want to make sure a guy is not a dud in the sack. No woman wants to marry Mr Floppy.

I've had a few who became intimate their first week that they met.  Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   

I call BS here. Here in Europe, intimacy within the first week would be quite normal in any country and across any age and social group with well adjusted people who had healthy attitudes to sex. In the FSU also; if not more so. You are trying to create 'norms' here that might sit well with your clients that actually are completely untrue.

However, men who are more socially awkward around women, or those who seek huge age gaps, will end up waiting longer due to inexperience. Religious types may like to wait until a wedding.

I have yet to see anything anywhere that supports your theory that those who got intimate within a week have shorter relationships as a result. In fact, if you use the forum demographic, the converse is the case. Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes. Because the woman simply wasn't that into him and the guy couldn't read it.

I would never wait till married, not only does she want to know about MR floppy.
I want to know if she is into it, good at or whatever, before I make serious commitment.
Levels of compatibility include sexual IMO
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 26, 2012, 01:39:28 PM
I call BS here. Here in Europe, intimacy within the first week would be quite normal in any country and across any age and social group with well adjusted people who had healthy attitudes to sex. In the FSU also; if not more so. You are trying to create 'norms' here that might sit well with your clients that actually are completely untrue.

However, men who are more socially awkward around women, or those who seek huge age gaps, will end up waiting longer due to inexperience. Religious types may like to wait until a wedding.

I have yet to see anything anywhere that supports your theory that those who got intimate within a week have shorter relationships as a result. In fact, if you use the forum demographic, the converse is the case. Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes. Because the woman simply wasn't that into him and the guy couldn't read it.

I have to agree 100% with Manny on every single point.

In fact, from a cultural perspective a well-mannered FSU woman would not take any outward action to insult or hurt someone she considers a guest to her city.  Neophytes in the process usually mistakenly interpret this polite avoidance of intimacy as thinking "she needs more time" when that is almost always never the case.  Almost always it is "she's just not that in to you"!

For the record Mark, Olga and I were intimate during the "fourth" date.  Our 10 year wedding anniversary is in July.  That's one you'll know of anyway  ;D
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: patagonie on April 26, 2012, 01:48:36 PM
There is no statistics on on FSUW / WM
But I went looking last  year and found a small study from a University
in US 36% divorce rate and a larger study form the UK which was 41 or 42 %
Don't have the sites now and this was based on International relationships.
They were both very reputable Universities.
Not sure how much that helps, but both numbers were lower than US and Canada
which is over 50%.

Only logic, I could put to this is if you get to the point of marriage and all it takes to
accomplish, that if there is a problem you will likely work harder to resolve it!
Than to just walk away, which seems to be common place in north America now.

I do think we had a discussion on this last year, some where.

"Only logic, I could put to this is if you get to the point of marriage and all it takes to
accomplish, that if there is a problem you will likely work harder to resolve it!
Than to just walk away, which seems to be common place in north America now."

I think it is a big factor in success. When you have invest a huge time, a huge amount of money, and invest a lot of emotion, you are really ready to do your best to keep this marriage. And for her i imagine this is the same. You learn to be patient because of the difference of culture, of language, in economics. So you would do your best  in your country too.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 02:40:26 PM
Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes.

That's a bad example because it doesn't account for the guys who didn't bring 'em, didn't use 'em and, perhaps, wish that they had used 'em.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 26, 2012, 04:06:05 PM
There is no statistics on on FSUW / WM

Yes, there are.  I cited one in the past, which was published in both Russian and American academic journals that found a higher divorce rate than for domestic marriages.  Further, the divorce "rate" in the US is not 50%.  I've provided links to this in the past.

Another forum commissioned a study in 2008-2009 (I believe), with a fair number of respondents from a number of sources (all starting online).  All were FSUW/WM, and a statistician was hired to compile the data.  The overall divorce rate was, I think, a little over 40%.  However, Jooky (who makes rare appearances here) broke down the data further because he said "new" marriages (the year of the survey or the preceding year) skewed the results.  These responses are from male respondents only, and the percentages are divorce rates.

Married 2009 4 /26 15%
Married 2008 9 / 118 07%
Married 2007 16 / 138 11%
Married 2006 22 / 129 17%
Married 2005 14 / 49 28%
 
Married 2004 22 / 47 46%
Married 2003 18 / 25 72%
Married 2002 20 / 30 67%
Married 2001 23 / 41 56%
Married 2000 25 / 28 89%
Married 1999 61 / 81 75% (1999 and before)
 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Manny on April 26, 2012, 04:08:28 PM
Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes.

That's a bad example because it doesn't account for the guys who didn't bring 'em, didn't use 'em and, perhaps, wish that they had used 'em.

I was using a polite metaphor.  :biggrin:

Much of the one-to-one phone consultation my wife and/or I have done has been on this subject. Typically, a guy will have visited two or three times. Nothing much has happened. If he has broached the subject with the woman, the 'reasons' vary from time of the month through to religion and even 'good girls don't'. The prognosis is always the same: she just isn't that into you.

It has been said often: When a Russian speaking woman is into you, you will know about it sooner rather than later.

Assuming the guy is socially capable and experienced with women, if it hasn't happened on the first visit (and we'll assume the first visit comprises at least seven dates), - devout religion excepted - its relatively safe to assume it isn't going to. There is no shortage of available women, so even if the odd good one gets away using that criteria, like a bus, another will be along in a moment.

The thing is, socially capable men and those who are experienced with women generally, learn the ropes of this endeavour - by books, forums, school of hard knocks or whatever means - and take a crack at going it alone. Those who are shy, lack confidence, are socially awkward or lack experience with women will find comfort in a group/tour/social setting or a wingman/mentor setting and generally need more um... guidance. Those are the blokes who will buy piffle like:

I've had a few who became intimate their first week that they met.  Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   

This makes the guy from a different culture, who might not be super confident with women feel OK about not having early success. He will believe from piffle like this that those who "rush" get it wrong. This may lull him into a false sense of security. This may make him depend on his chosen wing-people even more hoping to achieve success.  :money:

On one of the websites recently linked about Mark and his wife, I saw their respective ages in brackets after their names. By so highlighting it, it suggested to me not only that this was their targetted USP (easy meat), but suggests to Joe Sixpack that he can pull off the same age gap with ease. That demonstrably isn't the case. Mark had the attributes his wife was looking for at that time and in her situation - and vice versa. That they are still together and happy makes them the exception rather than the norm.

My advice to those that are not sufficiently au fait with women generally is to practice at home until you know what you are doing. If you cant get it right at home, you wont pull it off with a language barrier, a cultural barrier and especially with a decade or two between you. No amount of wing-people, dollars, webinars, succinct marketing or free ebooks is a substitute for feet-on-the-ground experience and taking the slow road of learning about the society and culture you seek to delve into.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 04:19:56 PM
Assuming the guy is socially capable and experienced with women, if it hasn't happened on the first visit (and we'll assume the first visit comprises at least seven dates), - devout religion excepted - its relatively safe to assume it isn't going to.

Speaking of that, I wonder how it went for Chris.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 26, 2012, 05:14:29 PM

Speaking of that, I wonder how it went for Chris.

I am only speculating but I would match any bet that he is back home
and the plastic is still around the full pack of Condoms.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 26, 2012, 05:20:40 PM
Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes.

If you are speaking about WOVO I agree.

If a guy visits many then depending on the length of the trip especially one week
trippers, there is a chance that he won't narrow things down quickly enough on
the first trip.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 07:00:16 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 26, 2012, 07:11:42 PM
There is no statistics on on FSUW / WM

Yes, there are.  I cited one in the past, which was published in both Russian and American academic journals that found a higher divorce rate than for domestic marriages.  Further, the divorce "rate" in the US is not 50%.  I've provided links to this in the past.

Another forum commissioned a study in 2008-2009 (I believe), with a fair number of respondents from a number of sources (all starting online).  All were FSUW/WM, and a statistician was hired to compile the data.  The overall divorce rate was, I think, a little over 40%.  However, Jooky (who makes rare appearances here) broke down the data further because he said "new" marriages (the year of the survey or the preceding year) skewed the results.  These responses are from male respondents only, and the percentages are divorce rates.

Married 2009 4 /26 15%
Married 2008 9 / 118 07%
Married 2007 16 / 138 11%
Married 2006 22 / 129 17%
Married 2005 14 / 49 28%
 
Married 2004 22 / 47 46%
Married 2003 18 / 25 72%
Married 2002 20 / 30 67%
Married 2001 23 / 41 56%
Married 2000 25 / 28 89%
Married 1999 61 / 81 75% (1999 and before)

I read a report from an interfaith group a couple years back. What struck me was those who married outside there own faith but inside there own religion managed percentage wise make a go of it. I do not remember how far back it went, but it was long term.

The odd thing & that was what I studied, was people who married outside there own culture but within there own religion. So i.e. Slavic with Caucasian or Hispanic with Slavic or what ever that these relationships seemed to last longer. I know if you read a site such as AFA they insist that the cross cultural relationships last longer and are more stable.

Looking at the numbers above they are sobering, especially over the long term. :(

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 07:31:09 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.

I'm sure that Mark would have chosen a different wife if he had known that you would object to Anna.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Larry on April 26, 2012, 07:34:44 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.

Looks like Mark will have to get some friends with younger sons.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 07:44:28 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.

Looks like Mark will have to get some friends with younger sons.

or older daughters.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: PBRstreetg on April 26, 2012, 08:27:31 PM
To TomT: 10-9 but I get it  :ROFL:

To Manny: yo comprendo and that's a big 10-4
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 26, 2012, 08:40:49 PM
I read a report from an interfaith group a couple years back. What struck me was those who married outside there own faith but inside there own religion managed percentage wise make a go of it. I do not remember how far back it went, but it was long term.

The odd thing & that was what I studied, was people who married outside there own culture but within there own religion. So i.e. Slavic with Caucasian or Hispanic with Slavic or what ever that these relationships seemed to last longer. I know if you read a site such as AFA they insist that the cross cultural relationships last longer and are more stable.

Looking at the numbers above they are sobering, especially over the long term. :(


That statistic marries up to what I have observed locally.  Of all the couples I have known, the FSUW- WM marriages that have lasted are either of the same religion (Jewish), or FSUW (including RW) who married ethnically UM, which is a large community where I live (Alberta). 

One of the reasons I suggest men avoid Ukraine is because so many Ukrainians wish to emigrate, due to the economy, corruption, and political uncertainty.  When those are factors, you don't really know if the woman is marrying you or looking for an escape.  However, those figures are rising for Russia as well, even if the economy is more stable.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 26, 2012, 08:44:09 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.

I'm sure that Mark would have chosen a different wife if he had known that you would object to Anna.


I suspect it is just how much weight should be given to the advice of such a couple (as I understand, their advice is "as a couple"). 

If married six years, was she 17 when they married?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 08:51:01 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.

I'm sure that Mark would have chosen a different wife if he had known that you would object to Anna.

So you approve of such a age difference? Tom...you are a fraud.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 09:03:17 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.

I'm sure that Mark would have chosen a different wife if he had known that you would object to Anna.


I suspect it is just how much weight should be given to the advice of such a couple (as I understand, their advice is "as a couple"). 

If married six years, was she 17 when they married?

My thoughts also...sad! Ward and these guys should hook up.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 09:30:42 PM
So you approve of such a age difference? Tom...you are a fraud.

Mark and Anna's marriage is none of our business and they don't need our blessing.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 26, 2012, 09:31:57 PM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.

 It means I have no use for someone who goes out SPECIFICALLY to look for girls 30+ years younger than themselves.


Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

 You didn't talk about coincidentally meeting a girl this young who attracted you, you talked about TARGETING these girls because girls their age group are who attracted you. Mark himself explained that their situation was very unusual. He wasn't looking for a wife that young and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife. The "experts" who's words you are trying to dismiss say the same thing.

 Your statements are more of a predator than a man who is looking for a loving wife and it makes me sick.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 09:49:28 PM
So you approve of such a age difference? Tom...you are a fraud.

Mark and Anna's marriage is none of our business.

Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 26, 2012, 10:00:20 PM
Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

Justmd, open mouth, insert foot.

I subscribe to the futility of the average man seeking a wife who is 25+ years his junior.  However IMHO BOTH TomT and Mark appear to fit into that rare category of man possessing the intelligence, perception, judgement, patience and physical shape to successfully pull it off. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 10:20:23 PM
Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

Whether I have a 23-year-old daughter who wants to marry a 49-year-old dickhead or not, Mark and Anna's marriage is still none of our business.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 10:27:16 PM
Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

Justmd, open mouth, insert foot.

I subscribe to the futility of the average man seeking a wife who is 25+ years his junior.  However IMHO BOTH TomT and Mark appear to fit into that rare category of man possessing the intelligence, perception, judgement, patience and physical shape to successfully pull it off.

Then you are as sad as the others I have mentioned who think it is ok to prey on such young girls, so open mouth...nevermind  :dh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 26, 2012, 10:37:09 PM
Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

Whether I have a 23-Garold daughter who wants to marry a 49-Garold dickhead or not, Mark and Anna's marriage is still none of our business.

OK, so you will refrain from dispensing out harsh comments to other men here on this forum and offer constructive advice? then I am good.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 26, 2012, 10:44:54 PM
I'd rather read your complaints about Mark and Anna.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Manny on April 26, 2012, 11:59:23 PM
He wasn't looking for a wife that young

Most men who married very young women say that.

and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife.

Funnily enough, most men who married very young women say that too.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 27, 2012, 12:05:16 AM
I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

At what age would you allow your daughter to chose her own dates?

and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife.

Funnily enough, most men who married very young women say that too.

Yeah, weird that. They either think that they are so special that only they can achieve such things, or its much harder work than they are letting on. ;)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 27, 2012, 12:11:57 AM
I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

At what age would you allow your daughter to chose her own dates?


62
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 27, 2012, 12:18:11 AM
I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

At what age would you allow your daughter to chose her own dates?


62

When I'm 62 my eldest daughter will be ........ 23. I think its a sign ........  :snivel:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 27, 2012, 12:34:56 AM
I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

At what age would you allow your daughter to chose her own dates?


62

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: leslied on April 27, 2012, 02:21:14 AM
Divine Intervention has nothing whatsoever to do with it !

Meeting each others requirements and sharing a vision of the future is the foundation.

I was 46 and my wife was 26 when we met.  We have been together for nearly 10 years now and we have two beautiful girls. 

Is it down to money (the tabloids ready excuse) ? No, but being affluent helps...

This horse is flogged to death on the forums with the usual characters reiterating their entrenched positions over and over and over again.

Some people will make large age gap marriages work.  The only unifying principle is that they are content in their relationships and make each other happy.

The detractors cannot imagine they would be happy in such a relationship and seek to impose their preferences on everyone else. 

Huh ???  People are different!  Get over yourselves!

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: patagonie on April 27, 2012, 04:03:03 AM
Men who come back after the first trip still with a full box of condoms are more often than not those who become train crashes.

That's a bad example because it doesn't account for the guys who didn't bring 'em, didn't use 'em and, perhaps, wish that they had used 'em.

I was using a polite metaphor.  :biggrin:

Much of the one-to-one phone consultation my wife and/or I have done has been on this subject. Typically, a guy will have visited two or three times. Nothing much has happened. If he has broached the subject with the woman, the 'reasons' vary from time of the month through to religion and even 'good girls don't'. The prognosis is always the same: she just isn't that into you.

It has been said often: When a Russian speaking woman is into you, you will know about it sooner rather than later.

Assuming the guy is socially capable and experienced with women, if it hasn't happened on the first visit (and we'll assume the first visit comprises at least seven dates), - devout religion excepted - its relatively safe to assume it isn't going to. There is no shortage of available women, so even if the odd good one gets away using that criteria, like a bus, another will be along in a moment.

The thing is, socially capable men and those who are experienced with women generally, learn the ropes of this endeavour - by books, forums, school of hard knocks or whatever means - and take a crack at going it alone. Those who are shy, lack confidence, are socially awkward or lack experience with women will find comfort in a group/tour/social setting or a wingman/mentor setting and generally need more um... guidance. Those are the blokes who will buy piffle like:

I've had a few who became intimate their first week that they met.  Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   

This makes the guy from a different culture, who might not be super confident with women feel OK about not having early success. He will believe from piffle like this that those who "rush" get it wrong. This may lull him into a false sense of security. This may make him depend on his chosen wing-people even more hoping to achieve success.  :money:

On one of the websites recently linked about Mark and his wife, I saw their respective ages in brackets after their names. By so highlighting it, it suggested to me not only that this was their targetted USP (easy meat), but suggests to Joe Sixpack that he can pull off the same age gap with ease. That demonstrably isn't the case. Mark had the attributes his wife was looking for at that time and in her situation - and vice versa. That they are still together and happy makes them the exception rather than the norm.

My advice to those that are not sufficiently au fait with women generally is to practice at home until you know what you are doing. If you cant get it right at home, you wont pull it off with a language barrier, a cultural barrier and especially with a decade or two between you. No amount of wing-people, dollars, webinars, succinct marketing or free ebooks is a substitute for feet-on-the-ground experience and taking the slow road of learning about the society and culture you seek to delve into.
+1 very good post
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 27, 2012, 06:51:56 AM
The detractors cannot imagine they would be happy in such a relationship and seek to impose their preferences on everyone else. 

It's a little too late for people to encourage Mark and Anna to close the barn door because their horses ran away six years ago.


p.s.

The above metaphor has nothing whatever to do with Ward.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Mark Davis on April 27, 2012, 03:44:30 PM
Last night we hosted the full Webinar on, "What's AGE Got To Do With It?" and had over 60 men on the call.

I covered 20 slides on my experience and advice and then opened the time to Q&A.  We had guys in their 20's and 50's who all had different questions.  Here's the link to the replay:

http://vimeo.com/41164806 (http://vimeo.com/41164806)

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 08:36:18 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 27, 2012, 08:49:25 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

And what is age difference between you and your girlfriend?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 08:50:11 PM
The detractors cannot imagine they would be happy in such a relationship and seek to impose their preferences on everyone else. 

It's a little too late for people to encourage Mark and Anna to close the barn door because their horses ran away six years ago.


p.s.

The above metaphor has nothing whatever to do with Ward.

She was 17 and he was 43 when they meet, anyone else see how wrong this is?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 08:51:12 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

And what is age difference between you and your girlfriend?  :biggrin:

She is 35 and I am 46.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Larry on April 27, 2012, 08:59:57 PM
Justmd,
We understand by now that you vehemently disapprove of twenty year age gap relationships.  But  Mark and his wife are married, quite possibly happily.  Why keep trying to gin up opprobrium on him/them?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Tom Cat on April 27, 2012, 09:11:32 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

Justmd,
I have 3 daughters, and all I hope for them is they will find a good man that will love and care for them.
I think the chances are much better that an older man would not cheat on them, and could provide a good  quality of life..
Age is just a number, and if two people are attracted to each other, then what does it matter? :biggrin:
Sure I would be slightly disappointed if they married a much older man, but if they are happy , it is all I can ask for.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 27, 2012, 09:21:06 PM
She is 35 and I am 46.

Why did you award yourself an eleven-year age gap when your hypothetical daughter only gets five? Perhaps you should be dating women who are in their forties instead. (I'm pretty sure that this thought must have crossed missAmeno's mind.)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 09:29:59 PM
Justmd,
We understand by now that you vehemently disapprove of twenty year age gap relationships.  But  Mark and his wife are married, quite possibly happily.  Why keep trying to gin up opprobrium on him/them?

Answer me this...what would any man who is in mid to late 40's have in common with a lady 20+ years younger?

sex...hot body?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 09:42:33 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

And what is age difference between you and your girlfriend?  :biggrin:

MissA...I am so impressed with her that I am certain I will ask her to be my wife.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 09:48:45 PM
She is 35 and I am 46.

Why did you award yourself an eleven-year age gap when your hypothetical daughter only gets five?

21-25 and 35-46 is a huge gap in maturity...you should know this as a parent.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Larry on April 27, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
Justmd,
We understand by now that you vehemently disapprove of twenty year age gap relationships.  But  Mark and his wife are married, quite possibly happily.  Why keep trying to gin up opprobrium on him/them?

Answer me this...what would any man who is in mid to late 40's have in common with a lady 20+ years younger?

sex...hot body?

A good relationship is about much more than sex. You want to find a powerful emotional connection with the other person.  But if you are lucky enough to find this, maybe you won't let an age gap deter you.  And as for what you find in common, it can be attitudes about family and raising children, attitudes about love and marriage, and many other things.

It's clear that you love your girlfriend. Would you have disregarded her if she was ten years younger? Different people mature at different ages.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 10:12:10 PM
Larry,

I did reject (in a nice way) young ladies who wrote to me and could have been a complete ass because I was only looking for a fine young lady to sex up...but I looked for a good woman and found Marina!

Said this many times now but she is the best lady I have meet and I leave next Friday to see her!  :)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 27, 2012, 10:22:25 PM
21-25 and 35-46 is a huge gap in maturity...

The framing of your statement leaves much to be desired. Nonetheless, I know what you meant, even though it's not what you wrote.

It's reasonable that a 35-year-old woman would make more sensible decisions than a 21-year-old girl. However, there is no assurance that a 46-year-old guy will make more sensible decisions than a 25-year-old kid. In fact, the forum archives are littered with examples of guys, your age, who made terrible decisions.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 27, 2012, 10:39:30 PM
21-25 and 35-46 is a huge gap in maturity...you should know this as a parent.

If you take the two extremes, 21 and 46, then yes. However, the differences between the 25 and 35 year olds will be minimal. I will cite personal experience: my wife was 26 and I was 36 when we met. I would not say there is a "huge gap" in maturity  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 27, 2012, 10:51:22 PM
21-25 and 35-46 is a huge gap in maturity...

The framing of your statement leaves much to be desired. Nonetheless, I know what you meant, even though it's not what you wrote.

It's reasonable that a 35-year-old woman would make more sensible decisions than a 21-year-old girl. However, there is no assurance that a 46-year-old guy will make more sensible decisions than a 25-year-old kid. In fact, the forum archives are littered with examples of guys, your age, who made terrible decisions.

My decisions are all on me and good with it.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Donhollio on April 27, 2012, 11:28:36 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

 What pull would you have over your adult daughter? At age 21 she is an adult and you have no legal obligations towards her. At that age she is free to choose and do as she wants, if not at 18yo. It won't sit well with you, but really there is nothing you can do.

 Back when I was in my 30's, I saw the girls I hung with getting married or into long term relationships. I slowly saw the hot girls disappear from my social circle. As time wore on I still connected to the 20 something crowd, and in a few discussions with girls it became apparent that they were tired of the younger guys playing with them, and enjoyed the 30 somethings guy who no longer took the 20 somethings for granted. 
 In the end the girl found a better guy.

 Take Tom and Nessi, they have some similar interests. Tom is a fit guy who doesn't sit on his ass all weekend watching sports on TV, he's active.  How many active 60 yo females do you know? It's apparent from what he posts to me that Tom would leave a similar aged partner in the dust.  It's not so much the age, its how old you act.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 28, 2012, 01:22:41 AM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

 What pull would you have over your adult daughter? At age 21 she is an adult and you have no legal obligations towards her. At that age she is free to choose and do as she wants, if not at 18yo. It won't sit well with you, but really there is nothing you can do.

 Back when I was in my 30's, I saw the girls I hung with getting married or into long term relationships. I slowly saw the hot girls disappear from my social circle. As time wore on I still connected to the 20 something crowd, and in a few discussions with girls it became apparent that they were tired of the younger guys playing with them, and enjoyed the 30 somethings guy who no longer took the 20 somethings for granted. 
 In the end the girl found a better guy.

 Take Tom and Nessi, they have some similar interests. Tom is a fit guy who doesn't sit on his ass all weekend watching sports on TV, he's active.  How many active 60 yo females do you know? It's apparent from what he posts to me that Tom would leave a similar aged partner in the dust.  It's not so much the age, its how old you act.

Donhillo's post defines the crux of the "problem" Some men enjoy life as well as some women enjoy life but a majority of the population at age 50 are worrying about there retirement and whether they need liposuction. With matters of the heart I have a difficult time with inflexible rules.

The women in Connecticut and Amsterdam tend to be hardened and bitter. The men often boring and disconnected. If a man can find a woman (often younger) who understands life than the two can be a richer pair together.

Some of us admire Katherine Hepburn but there are few women in Connecticut who have/had this vitality. That is why some of us find our selves perhaps by accident but sometimes by intent with younger women.

Is it evil no - is it healthy perhaps. It's just what it is, risks and rewards go with this.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Ade on April 28, 2012, 01:29:20 AM
There aren't many absolutes in issues like this, so there's no generalized one-size fits all description. 

There are predators, control freaks and nuttters out there that will look to exploit very young, messed up, self-destructive girls with "daddy" issues; there seems to be at least one of them around on these FSUW forums. Of course, once these girls reach the age of majority, bad choice or not, it's their choice to make.

Still, as the tail end of that ever present bell curve would dictate, there will likely be a very small number of young women that thrive in these large age gap relationships. After all, not all men in large age disparate relationships with very young women, and by young I mean early twenties and younger, are control freaks and abusive nut jobs, or at least they don't seem to be. Perhaps they can be accused of being unwise in their choices, particularly when it's so well known that people usually change radically during their late teens and twenties. Add that to the already complex equation of cultural difference and language barrier challenges, and it's not a recipe for long term wedded bliss, at least it wouldn't be for the vast majority of couples.

But, some, like Mark and Anna, seem to fit and their relationship works, at least for now. How it will continue to develop is anyone's guess but it's no certain thing, one way or the other. The infamous KenC found to his cost that no matter how much you love someone, a large age difference and those pesky twenty-something changes can make a marriage untenable. Still, he got 10 years out of it, the same as my ex-wife and I and we had a lot less of a difference between us, so who am I to judge? Of course, my ex-marriage was stormy and, from reading between the lines of his later posts, Ken's marriage wasn't exactly a walk in the park all the time either.  :biggrin:

So I wouldn't recommend an extremely large age gap to anyone and would certainly discourage those looking for a relationship with a woman below their mid-twenties unless they were also very young.

Perhaps I'm being a little hypocritical as my wife and I have 13 years between us. I used to think, when she first contacted me, that this was a huge difference and I was very concerned back then. It took me some time to get my head around it but I'm glad I didn't listen to that negative voice as our relationship is the best I've ever had. She was 29 at the time though. Do I think it would have been any different if she were 20 and I 33?  :laugh: Well, good question. I've no idea. But I do know that if she'd been 20 and I 42, I wouldn't have even responded to her first mail; I know that I wouldn't fit with a 20 year old and even if we did click, I wouldn't have trusted that we would fit through the changes that are likely to occur during her twenties.

My advice is to look for a person that fits you, not for an age, but with the following qualification; age is not "just a number", and the lower it is in relation to the age difference between two people, the more it should factor in to people's decisions.

If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

 :chuckle: Not that I'm keeping track but that has to be one of the silliest things you've said to date.  ;D
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 28, 2012, 01:33:42 AM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

MD guy, several years back I informed discretely my children that I was seeing a teenager. She a couple years earlier lied about her age to get into University and we both enjoyed each others company. She was in some matters insecure and in others brilliant. Further she was Slavic in an English University.

Anyways a month latter a call comes from my daughters mother. Miss Daughter is seeing some twenty odd years older! OH I thought, a long silence, and than the mother this is horrible.

Well I asked is he abusive, no.
Is our daughter enjoying herself, yes.
Is she learning things, yes.
Is she safe? yes according to our son

Well lets see what happens in several months was my reply. Latter I spoke with my daughter and it turned out that the guy had lost his family in an accident and the relationship was far more platonic than we assumed. It ended in a positive way as did my relationship.

I think parents would be far wiser if they gave more credit and responsibility to there children in North America than they do at present.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: rosco on April 28, 2012, 01:58:24 AM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

Justmd, to me you seem like decent guy with his heart in the right place. Sometimes a bit fired up or sensitive and I kind of understand where your coming from here. I don't have any children yet but when the day comes, of course I'll have my ideals but all I really want is their health & happiness.

You commented positively on my TR but my fiancé is 20 & I'm 31. My birthdays a month earlier so infact at some point it'll be 32 & 20. At times I've had little moments of deep thought & even reflected on what my friends & family may think. But what matters most in our relation certainly isn't age but our love and happiness. I've dated girls with a far smaller age gap & never felt what I have now. To use that old cliche again - age is just a number  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 28, 2012, 02:19:36 AM
That was a well thought out response Ade, nice job.

If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

 :chuckle: Not that I'm keeping track but that has to be one of the silliest things you've said to date.  ;D

Justmd, aka "speed reader", appears to have increased the frequency of posts as he approaches the 500 magic mark.  Perhaps the redundant rapid fire responses will subside soon.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: djfourmoney on April 28, 2012, 02:40:10 AM
 Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 28, 2012, 03:23:46 AM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

What's strange? I do prefer guys height on 20 cm and age on 10 years more then mine
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 28, 2012, 03:38:10 AM
Justmd Seems you have little faith in your own daughters ability to make choices as an adult!
You also have a different standard for your self and her, Why because your a wise man?
Kinda hypocritical statement really.


Age truly is a number and yes some will make big work, most won't but 10 years IMO
is not a big gap. 20 is big, but still more than doable for many people, again IMO.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on April 28, 2012, 05:52:13 AM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

That is some traveling ~ will not be a wmvm sort of travel report.

Might be handy to know where Elena lives. Off course just ask the taxi driver at the airport and he can organize an Elena for the night!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 28, 2012, 08:04:00 AM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

So, am I to understand all this emotional tough guy talk is fantasy because you actually don't have a daughter, is that correct?

 I've seen two instances of OTT comments from you on this topic in as many days, Justmd. Your made up what if, Walter Mittyish "Gee, if only I had an adult daughter, I'd show those guys who she tried to date what's what, I tell you." scenarios are childish.

Why don't you fantasize about something soothing  and post about that? Intrusive thoughts of violence aimed at fantasy suitors coming to visit a non existant adult daughter isn't very healthy.   

Quote from: justmd
She was 17 and he was 43 when they meet, anyone else see how wrong this is?

Where did you get the idea Anna was 17 when she and Mark met? Is this also part of the fantasy now?

Brass


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 28, 2012, 12:44:00 PM
Where did you get the idea Anna was 17 when she and Mark met?

If you keep this discussion going with questions, you are running the risk that he will climb back on his soapbox.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 07:32:58 PM
Justmd Seems you have little faith in your own daughters ability to make choices as an adult!
You also have a different standard for your self and her, Why because your a wise man?
Kinda hypocritical statement really.


Age truly is a number and yes some will make big work, most won't but 10 years IMO
is not a big gap. 20 is big, but still more than doable for many people, again IMO.

I don't have a daughter ( I said if ) My son is 23 yrs old and since it was brought up, how would I look to him if would one day I introduce a hot, young 21 yr old FSW to him and pronounce she will soon be his step-mother? my son would lose respect for me and I would not blame him.

But if I did have a daughter what was hypocritical about what I said?  a woman at the age of 21 is a totally different lady maturity wise at the age of 31. If I had a daughter and she brought a man home 5 yrs older and maybe 10 yrs older I would not have issue with it as long as he was a good man since they would both be in the general age group....20+ years is too much.

"Age truly is a number" I assume is what older men say when trying to justify chasing after a much younger lady.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 07:36:54 PM
Where did you get the idea Anna was 17 when she and Mark met?

If you keep this discussion going with questions, you are running the risk that he will climb back on his soapbox.

It was mentioned they meet 6 years ago, she is now 23.

Climbing off the soapbox and gently pushing over to you Tom.  tiphat
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 07:59:06 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

So, am I to understand all this emotional tough guy talk is fantasy because you actually don't have a daughter, is that correct?

 I've seen two instances of OTT comments from you on this topic in as many days, Justmd. Your made up what if, Walter Mittyish "Gee, if only I had an adult daughter, I'd show those guys who she tried to date what's what, I tell you." scenarios are childish.





Quote from: justmd
She was 17 and he was 43 when they meet, anyone else see how wrong this is?

Where did you get the idea Anna was 17 when she and Mark met? Is this also part of the fantasy now?

Brass

I have a large, close family with many nieces at this very young age, plus a large group of close friends whose children have now grown into the early 20's, Also I have raised my son alone since he was 4, so what is your point....I stated clearly " if " I had a daughter, but the fact that my son is 23 I think I can have a opinion as to why it to odd.

So you are fine with old men chasing after young ladies? if so please come out and state this.

"Is this also part of the fantasy now?" what the hell are you talking about with this whole entire post sir?


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 28, 2012, 08:16:38 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.
For a guy with nothing else to say.........just saying :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 08:25:27 PM
Justmd,
We understand by now that you vehemently disapprove of twenty year age gap relationships.  But  Mark and his wife are married, quite possibly happily.  Why keep trying to gin up opprobrium on him/them?

Answer me this...what would any man who is in mid to late 40's have in common with a lady 20+ years younger?

sex...hot body?

A good relationship is about much more than sex. You want to find a powerful emotional connection with the other person.  But if you are lucky enough to find this, maybe you won't let an age gap deter you.  And as for what you find in common, it can be attitudes about family and raising children, attitudes about love and marriage, and many other things.

It's clear that you love your girlfriend. Would you have disregarded her if she was ten years younger? Different people mature at different ages.

The answer to your question is yes, I would not have pursued her since that would have made her 24 instead of 34, I was looking for a life long partner that I had something in common with, I could care less what anyone else thinks but what would a guy 46 have in common with a woman 24?

  Think so much is getting lost in translation here, it would be one thing if a man just happened on a woman and they just hit it off from the start for no good reason other than chemistry and she happened to be 21-24 years old, But most men who are looking to FSW and are making plans to find such a young bride/girlfriend.

Seems I have struck a nerve here with many guys...not saying you.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 08:27:35 PM
Mark Davis,

You are 49 and your wife is 23...my son is 23! I have nothing else to say on this TR.
For a guy with nothing else to say.........just saying :coffeeread:

I know...
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 08:32:27 PM
If I had a 21-25 year old daughter 5 years difference would be the limit, If a man in his mid to late 40's showed up at my door then he would leave my home embarrassed.

 What pull would you have over your adult daughter? At age 21 she is an adult and you have no legal obligations towards her. At that age she is free to choose and do as she wants, if not at 18yo. It won't sit well with you, but really there is nothing you can do.

 Back when I was in my 30's, I saw the girls I hung with getting married or into long term relationships. I slowly saw the hot girls disappear from my social circle. As time wore on I still connected to the 20 something crowd, and in a few discussions with girls it became apparent that they were tired of the younger guys playing with them, and enjoyed the 30 somethings guy who no longer took the 20 somethings for granted. 
 In the end the girl found a better guy.

 Take Tom and Nessi, they have some similar interests. Tom is a fit guy who doesn't sit on his ass all weekend watching sports on TV, he's active.  How many active 60 yo females do you know? It's apparent from what he posts to me that Tom would leave a similar aged partner in the dust.  It's not so much the age, its how old you act.

Donhillo's post defines the crux of the "problem" Some men enjoy life as well as some women enjoy life but a majority of the population at age 50 are worrying about there retirement and whether they need liposuction. With matters of the heart I have a difficult time with inflexible rules.

The women in Connecticut and Amsterdam tend to be hardened and bitter. The men often boring and disconnected. If a man can find a woman (often younger) who understands life than the two can be a richer pair together.

Some of us admire Katherine Hepburn but there are few women in Connecticut who have/had this vitality. That is why some of us find our selves perhaps by accident but sometimes by intent with younger women.

Is it evil no - is it healthy perhaps. It's just what it is, risks and rewards go with this.

True statement but it is rare for success is my point and I have read many horror stories of men thinking otherwise.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 28, 2012, 08:34:11 PM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

If I understand correctly you wouldn't let your hypothetical daughter date a man older than 5 years, yet you are interested in women 10 - 14 years younger ???
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 08:45:33 PM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

If I understand correctly you wouldn't let your hypothetical daughter date a man older than 5 years, yet you are interested in women 10 - 14 years younger ???

I think this is meant for me?  I am seeing a woman who is a single parent and is 35 years old, I am 46. being a single parent also and having raised my 23 year old son and being around the age group of his friends and girlfriends I think I can comment on maturity levels...again, a woman who is 35 is much different than a young lady at 23-25.

I have only been to one country and leave the end of next week for another visit with her.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 09:05:17 PM
I am sorry, but we can do this all night and I will never agree with a middle aged man pursuing a young lady in her very early 20's just for the sake of it, I thought this forum was about men dating and finding a life long partner.
 
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 28, 2012, 09:42:19 PM
I am sorry, but we can do this all night and I will never agree with a middle aged man pursuing a young lady in her very early 20's just for the sake of it, I thought this forum was about men dating and finding a life long partner.
 
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

I was 25 when I met my better half, he was 38 (Justmd, notice age difference int that different from the one in your relationship). He was scared of my age at first, I never noticed any age difference. We have been happy together. Would it change my feelings towards him if there was even bigger age difference? - No!
Justmd, as you keep saying Marina won your heart over, same way other people find those that win their hearts over and some times it happens to be bigger age difference then socially accepted as normal.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 28, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

If I understand correctly you wouldn't let your hypothetical daughter date a man older than 5 years, yet you are interested in women 10 - 14 years younger ???

I think this is meant for me?  I am seeing a woman who is a single parent and is 35 years old, I am 46. being a single parent also and having raised my 23 year old son and being around the age group of his friends and girlfriends I think I can comment on maturity levels...again, a woman who is 35 is much different than a young lady at 23-25.

I have only been to one country and leave the end of next week for another visit with her.

Is the 25 year-old that different from the 35 year old? I would say that it depends. Some 25-year-olds will be more mature than some 35 years olds...
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 10:12:12 PM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

If I understand correctly you wouldn't let your hypothetical daughter date a man older than 5 years, yet you are interested in women 10 - 14 years younger ???

I think this is meant for me?  I am seeing a woman who is a single parent and is 35 years old, I am 46. being a single parent also and having raised my 23 year old son and being around the age group of his friends and girlfriends I think I can comment on maturity levels...again, a woman who is 35 is much different than a young lady at 23-25.

I have only been to one country and leave the end of next week for another visit with her.

Is the 25 year-old that different from the 35 year old? I would say that it depends. Some 25-year-olds will be more mature than some 35 years olds...

Come on...you are speaking in general terms almost like does lighting strike the same place twice,of course there is the exception to ever rule and it can happen but in general terms it is a very small percentage.

And if you do not see the difference in the maturity level from a 25 yr old lady to a 35 yr old lady, not sure what to say.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 28, 2012, 10:27:43 PM
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

You haven't a clue that Marina is telling you what you want to hear. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 10:39:29 PM
I am sorry, but we can do this all night and I will never agree with a middle aged man pursuing a young lady in her very early 20's just for the sake of it, I thought this forum was about men dating and finding a life long partner.
 
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

I was 25 when I met my better half, he was 38 (Justmd, notice age difference int that different from the one in your relationship). He was scared of my age at first, I never noticed any age difference. We have been happy together. Would it change my feelings towards him if there was even bigger age difference? - No!
Justmd, as you keep saying Marina won your heart over, same way other people find those that win their hearts over and some times it happens to be bigger age difference then socially accepted as normal.

MissA!

But...Marina is 35 and I am 46! a different age grouping
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 28, 2012, 10:56:16 PM
I have a large, close family with many nieces at this very young age, plus a large group of close friends whose children have now grown into the early 20's, Also I have raised my son alone since he was 4, so what is your point....I stated clearly " if " I had a daughter, but the fact that my son is 23 I think I can have a opinion as to why it to odd.

So you are fine with old men chasing after young ladies? if so please come out and state this.

"Is this also part of the fantasy now?" what the hell are you talking about with this whole entire post sir?

1) My point is this...

So you approve of such a age difference? Tom...you are a fraud.

Mark and Anna's marriage is none of our business.

Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

...is not an opinion. This is a belligerent, aggressive statement clearly aimed at Mark as it was Tom's remark regarding Mark and Anna's marriage you quoted.

You state coming from a large family and being a single parent qualifies you to make these statements. I would conclude that it shows a rabidly judgemental and inflexible individual who might find his family and friends distancing themselves if he ever acted out these confrontational fantasies in the real world.

2) I've often stated I'm firmly in the live and let live camp regarding age gap marriages. However, my position on age gap is not relevant to this discussion, we are discussing your rather vicious statements towards another member.

3) What I'm talking about is you posting inaccurate statements about a commercial member and his wife without knowing their history, specifically her age when they met and alluding to imaginary daughters and fantasy scenarios as an excuse to post inappropriate, combative comments.

Brass   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 10:59:43 PM
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

You haven't a clue that Marina is telling you what you want to hear.

Tom,

I will say this again you are a fraud, I have read many of your postings and you come across as a snobbish,angry man.

You are saying that she is a lair? she is dishonest? explain yourself and why you would disrespect a FSUW.


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 11:12:27 PM
I have a large, close family with many nieces at this very young age, plus a large group of close friends whose children have now grown into the early 20's, Also I have raised my son alone since he was 4, so what is your point....I stated clearly " if " I had a daughter, but the fact that my son is 23 I think I can have a opinion as to why it to odd.

So you are fine with old men chasing after young ladies? if so please come out and state this.

"Is this also part of the fantasy now?" what the hell are you talking about with this whole entire post sir?

1) My point is this...

So you approve of such a age difference? Tom...you are a fraud.

Mark and Anna's marriage is none of our business.

Would it be if you had a 23 yr old daughter involved with a man who is 49. Tell me I am wrong?

I would kick the living shit out of a man who showed up in my home wanting to see/date my 23 yr old daughter who was 49!

...is not an opinion. This is a belligerent, aggressive statement clearly aimed at Mark as it was Tom's remark regarding Mark and Anna's marriage you quoted.

You state coming from a large family and being a single parent qualifies you to make these statements. I would conclude that it shows a rabidly judgemental and inflexible individual who might find his family and friends distancing themselves if he ever acted out these confrontational fantasies in the real world.

2) I've often stated I'm firmly in the live and let live camp regarding age gap marriages. However, my position on age gap is not relevant to this discussion, we are discussing your rather vicious statements towards another member.

3) What I'm talking about is you posting inaccurate statements about a commercial member and his wife without knowing their history, specifically her age when they met and alluding to imaginary daughters and fantasy scenarios as an excuse to post inapropriate, combative comments.

Brass   

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 28, 2012, 11:15:17 PM
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

Try reading all the comments to her not just your edited version (I can only imagine the ages you've assigned Mark and Anna in your version of events). Infact, her reading this topic in it's entirety might be more of an eye opener for her regarding your personality than anything else.

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 11:17:26 PM
 I feel like the meat in a idiot sandwich on this subject!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 28, 2012, 11:24:49 PM
I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.

Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 28, 2012, 11:26:01 PM
I will say this again you are a fraud, I have read many of your postings and you come across as a snobbish,angry man.

Do you want me to start discussing your serial stupidity or shall we stick to the topic, eh?

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 28, 2012, 11:26:34 PM
MissA!

But...Marina is 35 and I am 46! a different age grouping

What I tried to say that at 25 I fall in love with someone who was close to be 40 and if he would have been 45 or 55 it wouldnt change for me anything. Not only sometimes relationships with big age difference work but also sometimes they are genuine and without any BS about "wealth" or "being attracted to her just because she is so young".  Who we are to judge somebody's life and feelings?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 11:32:41 PM
Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

Try reading all the comments to her not just your edited version (I can only imagine the ages you've assigned Mark and Anna in your version of events). Infact, her reading this topic in it's entirety might be more of an eye opener for her regarding your personality than anything else.

Brass

Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 28, 2012, 11:38:17 PM
Irina - 31 (Belarus)
 Karisa - 27 (Sao Paulo, BR)
 Elena - 27 (Some small town I forgot the name of in Ukraine)
 Kamila - 28 (Warsaw, Poland)

 I'm 41....

If I understand correctly you wouldn't let your hypothetical daughter date a man older than 5 years, yet you are interested in women 10 - 14 years younger ???

I think this is meant for me?  I am seeing a woman who is a single parent and is 35 years old, I am 46. being a single parent also and having raised my 23 year old son and being around the age group of his friends and girlfriends I think I can comment on maturity levels...again, a woman who is 35 is much different than a young lady at 23-25.

I have only been to one country and leave the end of next week for another visit with her.

Is the 25 year-old that different from the 35 year old? I would say that it depends. Some 25-year-olds will be more mature than some 35 years olds...

Come on...you are speaking in general terms almost like does lighting strike the same place twice,of course there is the exception to ever rule and it can happen but in general terms it is a very small percentage.

And if you do not see the difference in the maturity level from a 25 yr old lady to a 35 yr old lady, not sure what to say.

How do you define maturity? The 35-year-old may have a bit more more life experience, but is she truly more mature? I would say that at some point, we reach a certain level of maturity and then we simply gain experience. So, I would say that a 25-year-old can be as mature as a 35-year-old and as mature as a 45-year-old.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 28, 2012, 11:45:52 PM
I will say this again you are a fraud, I have read many of your postings and you come across as a snobbish,angry man.

Do you want me start discussing your serial stupidity or shall we stick to the topic, eh?

Yes I do, serial stupidity is the first topic...Go.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 29, 2012, 12:40:59 AM
I will say this again you are a fraud, I have read many of your postings and you come across as a snobbish,angry man.

Do you want me to start discussing your serial stupidity or shall we stick to the topic, eh?

Seems the topic is about miracles... Ever heard old stupids become wise and moderate?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 12:43:36 AM
Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.

It's folly to hide behind your girl and post derogatory comments by proxy in her name (if even true). If you open that door it can get messy if a member responds in kind.

Still waiting on that link...

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.
Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass





Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Donhollio on April 29, 2012, 01:12:42 AM
 Justmd, why the hell are you wasting time talking to your girl about things on here?  :drunk:
 This place can be very toxic to a relationship.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 29, 2012, 01:20:24 AM
I will say this again you are a fraud, I have read many of your postings and you come across as a snobbish,angry man.

Do you want me to start discussing your serial stupidity or shall we stick to the topic, eh?

Seems the topic is about miracles... Ever heard old stupids become wise and moderate?
:ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 29, 2012, 01:33:12 AM
Justmd, why the hell are you wasting time talking to your girl about things on here?  :drunk:
 This place can be very toxic to a relationship.
or in cases like this family entertainment. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 29, 2012, 02:59:56 AM
Justmd, has higher morals and standards then  most here.
Seems he knows how and what to do with a daughter as well.
Really just a much better person.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Ade on April 29, 2012, 03:17:56 AM
Hey, guys!

Thanks for the chance to enter into this conversation. 

My story is an exception.  I was not looking for a big age difference.  Anna didn't want to tell me her age for the first two months we were dating because she thought it would scare me off.  She would have been right.  I thought she was around 26 based on her maturity and humor.  She thought I was around 35 based on my personal energy.  By the time I found out what her age was, and recovered from the shock, I realized that I was already in love with her.  This was my half. 

Mark, I just took a browse around your website and looked over the photos from your March 2012 tour. I must say that besides the odd 40-something, most of the women in the "social" look like they were considerably younger than all the men, 30 or 40 years in some cases at a rough estimate. Perhaps the photos weren't all that representative but sticking a bunch of 50 years olds in among 20-somethings certainly looks like there's some attempt at engineering big age gap relationships going on? 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 29, 2012, 04:17:32 AM
Mark, I just took a browse around your website and looked over the photos from your March 2012 tour.......

I found Mark's red shirt to be much more alarming.  :o


;)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Tom Cat on April 29, 2012, 05:20:34 AM
Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.

It's folly to hide behind your girl and post derogatory comments by proxy in her name (if even true). If you open that door it can get messy if a member responds in kind.

Still waiting on that link...

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.
Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass

If you read Reply#37- point two, the age question of Anna at the time, will be answered.
Justmd, need to again check  the facts :reading:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Ade on April 29, 2012, 05:23:08 AM
Mark, I just took a browse around your website and looked over the photos from your March 2012 tour.......

I found Mark's red shirt to be much more alarming.  :o

;)

I assumed it was the really poor camera over saturating the colours.

One of the guys wrote a blog of the tour here; http://pryvet.wordpress.com/  (http://pryvet.wordpress.com/)which I've only read the first two entries of. This guy says he agrees with the blog of this other guy; http://www.westernwomensuck.com/2011/09/03/make-me-some-eggs/ (http://www.westernwomensuck.com/2011/09/03/make-me-some-eggs/). The url should tell you most of what you need to know about this misogynistic little pillock.

I'm curious if this (the woman referenced in "womensuck.com" above) is what men here mean when they talk about "fat, unreasonable, fem-nazi" types? Because I'll be honest, even though she's overweight and not my type, I don't think she's ugly and I don't think her preferences in men according to her dating profile is particularly demanding, I would even say she just wants a normal guy. So what's with all this guy's hate and angst? It reminds me of a lot of what I read from some men here. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: andrewfi on April 29, 2012, 05:59:43 AM
http://pryvet.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/ted/ reminded me of a poster here. Except that we know the poster here isn't a sex tourist.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 29, 2012, 06:11:48 AM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.

 It means I have no use for someone who goes out SPECIFICALLY to look for girls 30+ years younger than themselves.


Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

 You didn't talk about coincidentally meeting a girl this young who attracted you, you talked about TARGETING these girls because girls their age group are who attracted you. Mark himself explained that their situation was very unusual. He wasn't looking for a wife that young and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife. The "experts" who's words you are trying to dismiss say the same thing.

 Your statements are more of a predator than a man who is looking for a loving wife and it makes me sick.

First of all, it seems to me that you discredit me by saying:

" No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling."

You may disagree with me and that's ok, but what you've said is insulting.

Second: I'm not looking for big age gap. I would not consider to contact girl who is 20 years younger, and definitely not 25 years younger.

I would't write what I wrote before because after all the "experts" right. I would be happy to have woman around 30 something y.o.
I've red Mark's posts after my post. I can change my opinion or be more accurate. I was impressed by that at first, but I don't aspire to look for such an age gap.

But anyway it was your attitude towards me that pissed me off. Not the content.
   

 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: nicknick on April 29, 2012, 07:47:54 AM
Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.

It's folly to hide behind your girl and post derogatory comments by proxy in her name (if even true). If you open that door it can get messy if a member responds in kind.

Still waiting on that link...

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.
Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass

If you read Reply#37- point two, the age question of Anna at the time, will be answered.
Justmd, need to again check  the facts :reading:



I'll be frank here and say quite openly that justmd's posts do annoy me and, if he is anything like this in real life, then he really wouldn't be the sort of person I would choose as a friend.

Having said that however, I can perhaps understand why he thinks this about the age difference.  Although it is certainly not as clearly stated as he says and he may have missed something from his ''speed reading''.

It is in reply 37, a combination of the title and point one:-

AGE GAP COMMENTARY FROM A GUY WITH A 25-YEAR AGE DIFFERENCE WITH HIS UKRAINIAN WIFE OF FIVE YEARS
by Mark Davis


POINT ONE: I did not go looking for a big age gap. When we met I thought she was about 26 based on her maturity and humor.  That would have made it a 16 year gap and I felt fine about that. 

Taking point 1, age 26 meaning a 16 year age gap would mean that he was 42 at the time 26 + 16 = 42

He then says in the title that there is actually a 25 year age gap, so she must have been 17 when they met 42 - 25 = 17


However, I would suggest that things are complicated by what he says in point 2:-

Quote
POINT TWO: Anna DID go looking for an age gap. She was convinced that guys in their 20's were all cheaters because they were all sewing their wild oats.  She concluded that a marriage-minded guy would have to be over 30 - and she was dating guys in that age range in Ukraine when she was 18. It was a strategy on her part.

Where he says that she was dating various Ukrainian guys when she was 18.

I would suggest that this implies one of two things:-

1. The age gap is actually less than 25 years and she was older than 18 when they met.

2. They first met when she was 17 but did not actually get together until she was older, after she had been dating these other Ukrainian guys when she was 18.


It's impossible to tell from what Mark has written what the actual situation was.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 11:11:21 AM
Nicknick and TomCat,

I think what we're dealing with here is Mark not realizing that accuracy counts when conveying information to members on a forum such as ours. In otherwords, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Let's just get right to it and link an interview dated Jan of this year and listen to Anna explain the timeline in her own words...

 
I'll convey this though, Mark should be aware that timelines do become important in significant age gap marriages especially when ones bride is/was Anna's age. He runs an agency. He is a service provider. There are those that would seek to discredit him or misconstrue what he's written/posted/talked of and those that could genuinely and in good conscience arrive at a misunderstanding if questioning such a timeline. As an SP he needs to ensure that ambiguous language regarding himself, his business and his own marriage is kept to a minimum.

When Mark first arrived I did what I normally do with commercial members and conducted an internet search to see what's what and did raise an eyebrow at one or two minor variations (based on several sources-internet vids, book review(s), converstaion on forums etc.) of dates and ages. However, I've come to the conclusion based on their individual webcasts, youtube vids, nationally broadcast interviews and written word that they are consistant and appear truthful when they relate the history of how they met and how old they were/are.

I was aware of the post you've both cited and was looking to see if our self described Mr. HardA$$ was even cognizant and capable of articulating what exactly he was accusing Mark of and inviting him to clarify besides posting beligerent comments.

 Good comments, you guys.

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 29, 2012, 11:24:19 AM
Ever heard old stupids become wise and moderate?

I can't say that I have. The usual trend is for stupids who are unwise, inflexible and intolerant in their middle age to become much worse when they get old.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 29, 2012, 11:25:03 AM

Where he says that she was dating various Ukrainian guys when she was 18.

I would suggest that this implies one of two things:-

1. The age gap is actually less than 25 years and she was older than 18 when they met.

2. They first met when she was 17 but did not actually get together until she was older, after she had been dating these other Ukrainian guys when she was 18.


It's impossible to tell from what Mark has written what the actual situation was.

Nicknick I looked back at the threads and checked out Mark's site.  It certainly doesn't present itself as clear.  On one of the videos on the site Anna is presented as 20 and Mark 45.  But when you couple that with their photo on the site they list themselves as 23 and 49 respectively.  So it would appear they can be between 25 and 26 years based on when their birthdays fall.
The video also says they had a long distance relation for one year before she arrived in America so that put their time together as a couple to a minimum of 6 years.

So 42-25 =17, 23-6=17.

As Tom Cat posted Mark posted Anna was dating Ukrainian men when she was 18. 

The math appears a little inconsistent.

I will say that from what I seen on the videos Mark looks his age IMHO.  He is hardly exceptional in appearance or stature now or five years ago.  Anna does present herself as genuine.  They do look happy together.

It is a hot topic when you start looking at teens hooking up with guys in their forties.  Look no further than the school teacher in the US who has been charged in recent weeks.

Giving Mark the benefit of the doubt that Anna was 18, is there really that much difference between an FSU and American girl 18 years of age.  I am no expert but common sense would tell me no.

This is an exceptional case either side of the pond IMO.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 29, 2012, 11:30:41 AM
Sorry Brass I was putting my post together and entertaining my little guy.  Of course he came first so it took me way too long.  I'll check out the link you posted.

Good post
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 11:36:27 AM
Sorry Brass I was putting my post together and entertaining my little guy.  Of course he came first so it took me way too long.  I'll check out the link you posted.

Good post

No worries, bud. Good point on birthdates. :)

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 01:25:36 PM
I don't find justmd annoying.

Justmd took the 17 year old from my post, which was a question, rather than a statement.  Mark posted Anna is 23, and they've been together 6 years.  23-6-17, at least, by my math. 

Quote
He is hardly exceptional in appearance or stature now or five years ago.

What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example. :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 01:48:40 PM


One of the guys wrote a blog of the tour here; http://pryvet.wordpress.com/  (http://pryvet.wordpress.com/)which I've only read the first two entries of. This guy says he agrees with the blog of this other guy; http://www.westernwomensuck.com/2011/09/03/make-me-some-eggs/ (http://www.westernwomensuck.com/2011/09/03/make-me-some-eggs/). The url should tell you most of what you need to know about this misogynistic little pillock.

I'm curious if this (the woman referenced in "womensuck.com" above) is what men here mean when they talk about "fat, unreasonable, fem-nazi" types? Because I'll be honest, even though she's overweight and not my type, I don't think she's ugly and I don't think her preferences in men according to her dating profile is particularly demanding, I would even say she just wants a normal guy. So what's with all this guy's hate and angst? It reminds me of a lot of what I read from some men here. :biggrin:

I suspect a lot of men who go on tours are like this (i.e. misogynists who don't relate well to women).  Men who believe in "fem-nazis" = men who don't like women to be their equals.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 01:55:52 PM
Justmd took the 17 year old from my post, which was a question, rather than a statement.  Mark posted Anna is 23, and they've been together 6 years.  23-6-17, at least, by my math. 

Halo, I can't find any statement (on this forum at least) by Mark where he mentions 6 years. Has he mentioned this elswhere (or maybe it's here infront of my nose somewhere and I need new reading glasses)?  :chuckle:

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 01:58:05 PM
Perhaps it was in his link, can't recall.  But it did stick out to me - 23 years old, married 6 years.  It is why I asked.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 02:06:42 PM
Perhaps it was in his link, can't recall.  But it did stick out to me - 23 years old, married 6 years.  It is why I asked.

OK. Yeah, as I mentioned above, while going through a fair bit of material, I also noted one or two (what I consider to be) minor inconsistencies. 6 years instead of 5 years would have stood out for me as well, I think but it's possible it might be out there somewhere.

Have you looked at the vid I linked (if so, what are your thoughts)?

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 02:12:41 PM
Without knowing when the video was made and how long they were married (DOB, date of marriage, which is none of my business, but then again, he does use his marriage as part of his marketing), it doesn't clarify anything for me.

Frankly, I view Mark as just another commercial member, though granted, one who is far more polite and honest than the commercial members who post here, but still, a commercial member, and I read his posts with that in mind.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Tom Cat on April 29, 2012, 02:28:17 PM
"Quote" from website
Peter and Mark met in Odessa Ukraine in December of 2006.  It was their first day in Ukraine together and they connected immediately.

Assuming, Mark and his  business partner Peter, were both in Ukraine to meet ladies, would put Mark and Anna's Marriage less than 6 years :biggrin:

Edit : married in 2007,
 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 02:31:47 PM
Without knowing when the video was made and how long they were married, it doesn't clarify anything for me.

Anna does state her age (23) and the how long they've been married and when they met (4 and 5 years respectively), though. This coupled with her mentioning after she turned 18 she attended the meet and greet where she met Mark would suggest she was already 18 yoa, no?

Brass


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: nicknick on April 29, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
... those that could genuinely and in good conscience arrive at a misunderstanding if questioning such a timeline.

... they are consistant and appear truthful when they relate the history of how they met and how old they were/are.

...  was looking to see if our self described Mr. HardA$$ was even cognizant and capable of articulating what exactly he was accusing Mark of

Brass

Giving Mark the benefit of the doubt that Anna was 18.


I've just realised that what I wrote may have been taken as some sort of condemnation of Mark's behaviour - it certainly wasn't intended as such. 

As Mendy said recently, in a different thread on a different subject, I remain neutral on the issue.

However, I have noticed, both here and on another site, that many Americans get really uptight when there is any hint of anything happening with a partner under the age of 18.

As a result of this I just assumed that the age of consent in the USA was 18.

However, not being American, I didn't really know for sure so turned to Wikipedia.  Now, I know that wikipedia does have a lot of faults, but I guessed that on something as basic as this it is likely to be accurate.

According to wikipedia, the age of consent in the large majority of US states is actually 16.

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?


Before anyone starts accusing me of promoting this sort of thing I would just like to say that, while I am neutral on this subject, I would very much agree with welder:-

... is there really that much difference between an FSU and American girl 18 years of age.  I am no expert but common sense would tell me no.

This is an exceptional case either side of the pond IMO.


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 02:39:18 PM
Yep, I looked at the age of consent in California and Ukraine as well. Ukraine has changed from 17 to 18 in the last few years making it equal for both male and female.

I'll see if I can relocate the link it was interesting reading....

edit:

http://www.Kievpost.com/news/nation/detail/124620/

I can't seem to find a date year on this page but I think it's been in the last few years...

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 02:40:16 PM
Missed that, Brass.

nick, it's not about the age of consent.  Teens are not exactly models of stability and rational thought, and, with a large age discrepancy, coupled with the economic disparities that drive the whole "MOB" business to begin with, manipulation by a much older partner is a big risk.

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Tom Cat on April 29, 2012, 02:56:37 PM
Mark, met Anna in December 2006

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: nicknick on April 29, 2012, 02:58:05 PM
nick, it's not about the age of consent.  Teens are not exactly models of stability and rational thought, and, with a large age discrepancy, coupled with the economic disparities that drive the whole "MOB" business to begin with, manipulation by a much older partner is a big risk.

Halo,

I very much agree with you.

This is the reason why I ended with this point saying how much I agreed with what welder had said.



Before anyone starts accusing me of promoting this sort of thing I would just like to say that, while I am neutral on this subject, I would very much agree with welder:-

... is there really that much difference between an FSU and American girl 18 years of age.  I am no expert but common sense would tell me no.

This is an exceptional case either side of the pond IMO.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 29, 2012, 03:02:12 PM
"Quote" from website
Peter and Mark met in Odessa Ukraine in December of 2006.  It was their first day in Ukraine together and they connected immediately.

Assuming, Mark and his  business partner Peter, were both in Ukraine to meet ladies, would put Mark and Anna's Marriage less than 6 years :biggrin:

Edit : married in 2007,

Yep

Edit: The dates are correct December 2006 and married Oct 2007. So 5 years, 5 months since they met and 4 years, 6 months (give or take two weeks) since they married. This is consistent.

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 29, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example. :laugh:

Let Mark repeat that when his wife will be 50...
These guys do punish themselves >>> they'll never see their wives old  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Larry on April 29, 2012, 03:15:45 PM
Quote
So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

Many of my countrymen get uptight about A LOT of things.  Three hours ago I was in the grocery store buying a few items and my daughters were with me.  I went to the self-checkout lane, where one scans his purchases himself.  I scanned in some wine and asked one of my daughters to put it in a bag, which was right next to me, while I continued scanning the rest of my purchases.  My daughter is pre-adolescent, obviously well under the legal drinking age of 21.  The store employee monitoring the self-checkout lane brusquely told me "she shouldn't be handling that; you need to put it in the bag.  This, even though it was obviously me who was making the purchase.

It seems to be true that many people here get more uptight about sex than anything else.  When my ex-wife was in high school her school didn't have an annual dance.  The area was a small town in which many residents adhered to a religious fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ.  My ex and a friend began a campaign for the school to have a graduation dance.  The preacher at this church condemned both girls in his Sunday sermon, mentioning them by name.  He apparently said that dancing would lead to sex.

This church apparently forbade its members from dancing.  I once heard a joke: Why does the Church of Christ forbid its members from having sex while standing?  Someone might see them and think they were dancing.

In the last decade there were at least two criminal prosecutions, in two different states, of women who held parties at which they demonstrated vibrators and other sex toys.  These parties were held in friends' homes, very much like Tupperware parties.  The woman who sold the vibrators would show them and take orders.  Her friend, who hosted the party in her home, invited her other female friends and provided hors d'ouerves (sp?) and in return would get some discount on the product being sold.

The attendees were all friends. They voluntarily attended the parties, held at private homes. No sex occurred.  There was no nudity.  But prosecutors brought criminal charges against the woman who sold the vibrator obtained criminal convictions against her.  In one case the conviction was overturned on appeal but in the other case it was not overturned.

A prosecutor's office typically has a vast number of cases to prosecute, so much so that  their assistants who typically handle the cases all have a big stack of files and plea bargain almost all of them because they don't have nearly the time to actually try more than a tiny percentage of cases. But they were happy to take time away from prosecuting violent criminals and devote it to the trial and lengthy appeal of these women who were engaged in the sale of harmless products.

I like many things about my country, but it can be one ****ing uptight place.  And different regions are often uptight about different things.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: patagonie on April 29, 2012, 03:34:11 PM
Quote
So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

Many of my countrymen get uptight about A LOT of things.  Three hours ago I was in the grocery store buying a few items and my daughters were with me.  I went to the self-checkout lane, where one scans his purchases himself.  I scanned in some wine and asked one of my daughters to put it in a bag, which was right next to me, while I continued scanning the rest of my purchases.  My daughter is pre-adolescent, obviously well under the legal drinking age of 21.  The store employee monitoring the self-checkout lane brusquely told me "she shouldn't be handling that; you need to put it in the bag.  This, even though it was obviously me who was making the purchase.

It seems to be true that many people here get more uptight about sex than anything else.  When my ex-wife was in high school her school didn't have an annual dance.  The area was a small town in which many residents adhered to a religious fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ.  My ex and a friend began a campaign for the school to have a graduation dance.  The preacher at this church condemned both girls in his Sunday sermon, mentioning them by name.  He apparently said that dancing would lead to sex.

This church apparently forbade its members from dancing.  I once heard a joke: Why does the Church of Christ forbid its members from having sex while standing?  Someone might see them and think they were dancing.

In the last decade there were at least two criminal prosecutions, in two different states, of women who held parties at which they demonstrated vibrators and other sex toys.  These parties were held in friends' homes, very much like Tupperware parties.  The woman who sold the vibrators would show them and take orders.  Her friend, who hosted the party in her home, invited her other female friends and provided hors d'ouerves (sp?) and in return would get some discount on the product being sold.

The attendees were all friends. They voluntarily attended the parties, held at private homes. No sex occurred.  There was no nudity.  But prosecutors brought criminal charges against the woman who sold the vibrator obtained criminal convictions against her.  In one case the conviction was overturned on appeal but in the other case it was not overturned.

A prosecutor's office typically has a vast number of cases to prosecute, so much so that  their assistants who typically handle the cases all have a big stack of files and plea bargain almost all of them because they don't have nearly the time to actually try more than a tiny percentage of cases. But they were happy to take time away from prosecuting violent criminals and devote it to the trial and lengthy appeal of these women who were engaged in the sale of harmless products.

I like many things about my country, but it can be one ****ing uptight place.  And different regions are often uptight about different things.
.

I would say that what you wrote is unbelievable for an european. Unfortunately in  30 years or 40 we will have such sort of problem also in Europe. Things are slowly use this way.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: d672 on April 29, 2012, 03:44:03 PM
There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.

 It means I have no use for someone who goes out SPECIFICALLY to look for girls 30+ years younger than themselves.


Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

 You didn't talk about coincidentally meeting a girl this young who attracted you, you talked about TARGETING these girls because girls their age group are who attracted you. Mark himself explained that their situation was very unusual. He wasn't looking for a wife that young and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife. The "experts" who's words you are trying to dismiss say the same thing.

 Your statements are more of a predator than a man who is looking for a loving wife and it makes me sick.

First of all, it seems to me that you discredit me by saying:

" No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling."

You may disagree with me and that's ok, but what you've said is insulting.

Second: I'm not looking for big age gap. I would not consider to contact girl who is 20 years younger, and definitely not 25 years younger.

I would't write what I wrote before because after all the "experts" right. I would be happy to have woman around 30 something y.o.
I've red Mark's posts after my post. I can change my opinion or be more accurate. I was impressed by that at first, but I don't aspire to look for such an age gap.

But anyway it was your attitude towards me that pissed me off. Not the content.
   

 I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem.

 Take another look at what you did here. Try to see this from my point of view. You started this thread using Marks case as justification for writing to girls about 18-20 years old. Then if you look at your post I quoted you state that this is the age group you are attracted to. You never mentioned older women attracting you, just the young ones. I've read your previous threads about your experiences with women who were in their 30's and it didn't go well for you. You even stated that you are giving up on your FSU search and looking for someone at home. Then you post this thread showing interest in young FSU girls and the first thing I think  is WHY??? Is he trying another age group because he failed with the 30 year olds? Is he picking young girls who hardly have any life experience because they are more impressionable than older girls? That is the part that really turned my stomach and made me write what I did. If you think I'm an asshole for that then I guess I am. 

 I see in your last post you are talking exact opposite of how you started this thread. That you read what Mark said about the situation and agree with the experts now and would never consider such a big age difference. That eases my concerns about you a bit but I still can't help but wonder why you would even start a thread like this looking into the viability of writing such young girls in the first place.   ???   

 

 

 

   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 29, 2012, 04:05:05 PM
Quote
So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

Many of my countrymen get uptight about A LOT of things.  Three hours ago I was in the grocery store buying a few items and my daughters were with me.  I went to the self-checkout lane, where one scans his purchases himself.  I scanned in some wine and asked one of my daughters to put it in a bag, which was right next to me, while I continued scanning the rest of my purchases.  My daughter is pre-adolescent, obviously well under the legal drinking age of 21.  The store employee monitoring the self-checkout lane brusquely told me "she shouldn't be handling that; you need to put it in the bag.  This, even though it was obviously me who was making the purchase.

It seems to be true that many people here get more uptight about sex than anything else.  When my ex-wife was in high school her school didn't have an annual dance.  The area was a small town in which many residents adhered to a religious fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ.  My ex and a friend began a campaign for the school to have a graduation dance.  The preacher at this church condemned both girls in his Sunday sermon, mentioning them by name.  He apparently said that dancing would lead to sex.

This church apparently forbade its members from dancing.  I once heard a joke: Why does the Church of Christ forbid its members from having sex while standing?  Someone might see them and think they were dancing.

In the last decade there were at least two criminal prosecutions, in two different states, of women who held parties at which they demonstrated vibrators and other sex toys.  These parties were held in friends' homes, very much like Tupperware parties.  The woman who sold the vibrators would show them and take orders.  Her friend, who hosted the party in her home, invited her other female friends and provided hors d'ouerves (sp?) and in return would get some discount on the product being sold.

The attendees were all friends. They voluntarily attended the parties, held at private homes. No sex occurred.  There was no nudity.  But prosecutors brought criminal charges against the woman who sold the vibrator obtained criminal convictions against her.  In one case the conviction was overturned on appeal but in the other case it was not overturned.

A prosecutor's office typically has a vast number of cases to prosecute, so much so that  their assistants who typically handle the cases all have a big stack of files and plea bargain almost all of them because they don't have nearly the time to actually try more than a tiny percentage of cases. But they were happy to take time away from prosecuting violent criminals and devote it to the trial and lengthy appeal of these women who were engaged in the sale of harmless products.

I like many things about my country, but it can be one ****ing uptight place.  And different regions are often uptight about different things.

Don't worry Larry. At the rate the Supreme Court is ruling, this will be a reality very soon.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: shakespear on April 29, 2012, 05:43:13 PM
I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem. 

Mother Nature created the male of our species to be attracted to women of fertile childbearing age.  To deny such an attraction exists in every man is foolhearty.  It's why my wife doesn't get angry when I happen to look when a pretty young girl walks by me on the street.

However most men of a certain age have the maturity and sound judgement NOT to act on those natural impulses, or to channel them in a more acceptable manner or outlet.   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 06:24:08 PM
What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example. :laugh:

Let Mark repeat that when his wife will be 50...
These guys do punish themselves >>> they'll never see their wives old  :biggrin:

 :nod:

Oops, he posted it here too.


http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=16720.msg261149#msg261149
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 29, 2012, 07:05:35 PM
What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example. :laugh:
Let Mark repeat that when his wife will be 50...
These guys do punish themselves >>> they'll never see their wives old  :biggrin:
Oops, he posted it here too.
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=16720.msg261149#msg261149

Forgot another part of phrase >>> she'll never see him young  :biggrin:
Title: Why is 16 worse than 18
Post by: 2tallbill on April 29, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

In the USA first the kids go to grammar school, then High School,
then a college or university.

In the USA 18 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent
at age 18 keeps the teachers from F#cking the students in High
school. The bar has to be somewhere so in the USA it's been set
at 18.
Title: Re: Why is 16 worse than 18
Post by: TomT on April 29, 2012, 07:34:51 PM
In the USA 18 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent
at age 18 keeps the teachers from F#cking the students in High
school. The bar has to be somewhere so in the USA it's been set
at 18.

That law doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.
Title: Re: Why is 16 worse than 18
Post by: Larry on April 29, 2012, 07:55:47 PM
So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

In the USA first the kids go to grammar school, then High School,
then a college or university.

In the USA 18 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent
at age 18 keeps the teachers from F#cking the students in High
school. The bar has to be somewhere so in the USA it's been set
at 18.

Bill, I think you're incorrect here.  The age of consent is set by state law, therefore every state sets its own age of consent.  While I have not researched this, one of my law school classmates had to do a project and chose to research the age of consent in a number of states.  In many states the age was, as NickNick found, 16.  This is dated information, but I doubt many states have changed their laws in the last few decades.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 08:44:42 PM
Bill live in California, I believe, where the age of consent is 18.   But, yes, it varies from 16 to 18, depending on the state.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 29, 2012, 09:06:19 PM
"Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum."

Words from the first page of this TR...not mine but his.

Seems a backlash is brewing on this forum, I have received 11 PM's since last evening and all have grown tired of the same group of guys who post here and on other forums...so these men are on multiple forums of the same subject...interesting.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 09:26:07 PM
Not sure who all those men are, but the ones on this thread who post on the other forum are Ade, Muzh, patagonie, and Rasputin.  BC posts on both forums as well (though he hasn't posted on this thread).

The others posting here make occasional appearances, but post far more here, or don't post at the other forum at all.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 29, 2012, 09:57:55 PM
Not sure who all those men are, but the ones on this thread who post on the other forum are Ade, Muzh, patagonie, and Rasputin.  BC posts on both forums as well (though he hasn't posted on this thread).

The others posting here make occasional appearances, but post far more here, or don't post at the other forum at all.

Many names where given up and very happy to see that most agree with me as a parent.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 10:25:02 PM
Quote
Many names where given up

I wouldn't put too much stock in the opinions of those who, even on a largely anonymous internet forum, don't have the cojones to post their opinions openly.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 29, 2012, 10:28:47 PM
Quote
Many names where given up

I wouldn't put too much stock in the opinions of those who, even on a largely anonymous internet forum, don't have the cojones to post their opinions openly.

I agree but find it amusing.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Konfushus on April 29, 2012, 10:54:57 PM
I wouldn't put too much stock in the opinions of those who do have the cojones to post their opinions openly either.  ;D
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 10:57:36 PM
 ;D  That's true too.

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Konfushus on April 29, 2012, 11:02:01 PM
Does it really matter if this girl was a few months above or below the 18 year mark when they first met? Either way she was damn young for a guy in his 40s. I say this and I have a significant age difference with my wife (17 years).

The 'age is just a number' routine is garbage. Age is the selling point for these tours. Just look at the tour photos and videos. If it was insignificant, it wouldn't even be brought up as an issue. When I see a tour full of Ukrainian women in their 40s, then we'll talk about 'age is just a number'.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 29, 2012, 11:08:51 PM
You're on a roll.   ;D

Very true again.

However, don't you think once a woman is over 30, it doesn't matter as much?  She has life experiences, and usually knows who she is.

I've seen couples here (both partners Canadian) with 25 year age differences who are very happy and seemingly suited to one another.  In those cases, I would say age is just a number.  But, in all the cases, the women were 35 or older when they married, all had established careers, and all married very dynamic men.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on April 30, 2012, 01:29:10 AM
Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.


Words from the first page of this TR...not mine but his.

Seems a backlash is brewing on this forum, I have received 11 PM's since last evening and all have grown tired of the same group of guys who post here and on other forums...so these men are on multiple forums of the same subject...interesting.
Justmd, sorry but I don't get your point.  No sarcasm, maybe I just missed something, but why were you quoting Chelseaboy. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: chelseaboy on April 30, 2012, 05:25:59 AM
Yes,i was just wondering about that.

FWIW,i do make postings on the other forum sometimes,if that has any significance.

I am neutral on large age-gap relationships.For the small minority they work,for the large majority they don't.
I would say that any man travelling to the FSU with the sole intention of finding a wife at least 20 years younger than him,is living a fantasy and leaving himself open to pro-daters and scammers.
However,if any man should meet someone who he gets on very well with,despite such an age gap,as Mark has,then i don't see the problem.

Those certain people that are trying to make a problem out of Mark marrying Anna,because of her age,and the large age-gap,need to get off their soap-box and maybe ask Anna if SHE is happy.
Do those same people think she should have married a local guy around her own age instead ?
From what i understand,unless it's all hype,if she had done,there is a pretty good chance her young Ukrainian husband would now be chasing other young women.

Seems to me she made a good choice in Mark. :-X
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 07:06:41 AM
I wish that I had a dollar for every member who has claimed a groundswell of support, through the PM system, from their imaginary friends.

For those people who are interested in such things, this is a variation of "appeal to widespread belief." People who employ this fallacy attempt to make their case by indicating that it must be true because many people believe that it is. Nevermind that the majority of people once believed that the Earth was flat or that one could not contract HIV from a heterosexual...


p.s.

Don't mind me; I'm just jealous because I have fewer imaginary friends.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 30, 2012, 07:36:53 AM
I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem. 

Mother Nature created the male of our species to be attracted to women of fertile childbearing age.  To deny such an attraction exists in every man is foolhearty.  It's why my wife doesn't get angry when I happen to look when a pretty young girl walks by me on the street.


Attraction is one thing, decorum is another.  :smokin:

Something about pearls, lipstick and pork chops.

However most men of a certain age have the maturity and sound judgement NOT to act on those natural impulses, or to channel them in a more acceptable manner or outlet.

Conflicting messages there, eh?

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 30, 2012, 08:36:48 AM
Quote
From what i understand,unless it's all hype,if she had done,there is a pretty good chance her young Ukrainian husband would now be chasing other young women.

Mostly hype.  Not a "pretty good chance", either.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 08:39:12 AM
Quote
I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem.

I'm 46 now. I was pissed off by your discredit me for other readers to have bad thoughts about me, and certainly not by your disagreement. You would be right if I would be as you described. Keep in mind that much of your criticism comes from your extended interpretation about me.

Quote
You started this thread using Marks case as justification for writing to girls about 18-20 years old.

This is your interpretation. I would never do that and never did and not going to do, to write to this age group.

Quote
Then if you look at your post I quoted you state that this is the age group you are attracted to. You never mentioned older women attracting you, just the young ones.

I've never mentioned certain age group that I'm attracted to.

Quote
I've read your previous threads about your experiences with women who were in their 30's and it didn't go well for you.

It has nothing to do with their age.

Quote
You even stated that you are giving up on your FSU search and looking for someone at home.

Correct.

Quote
Then you post this thread showing interest in young FSU girls and the first thing I think  is WHY???

It was an anecdote. Not serious intention.

Quote
Is he trying another age group because he failed with the 30 year olds?

My failures occurred due to my mistakes, not because of their age.

Quote
Is he picking young girls who hardly have any life experience because they are more impressionable than older girls?


No. first, I'm not picking girls. I rather communicate and try to figure out if we understand each other. And no. I definitely prefer older girls who are more mature and serious.

Quote
That is the part that really turned my stomach and made me write what I did. If you think I'm an asshole for that then I guess I am.

I will let you define what asshole is.

Quote
I see in your last post you are talking exact opposite of how you started this thread. That you read what Mark said about the situation and agree with the experts now and would never consider such a big age difference. That eases my concerns about you a bit but I still can't help but wonder why you would even start a thread like this looking into the viability of writing such young girls in the first place.
   

Thank you for your concern. I wouldn't start this thread if I would know that many married guys who have families will spend extra hours and energy in front of the monitor writing in this thread. I would start thread if I need help and advice, as I did before in other threads.   
   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 30, 2012, 08:53:27 AM
Sharon, you are very difficult to understand. This was your second post on this thread.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

Then you got upset because an "expert" called you on it.

If this is not what you meant, you are sending the wrong signals.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 30, 2012, 08:54:47 AM
Those certain people that are trying to make a problem out of Mark marrying Anna,because of her age,and the large age-gap,need to get off their soap-box and maybe ask Anna if SHE is happy.
Do those same people think she should have married a local guy around her own age instead ?
From what i understand,unless it's all hype,if she had done,there is a pretty good chance her young Ukrainian husband would now be chasing other young women.

Seems to me she made a good choice in Mark. :-X

I don't think anyone is saying who either Mark or Anna should've married.

But, you are still wrong.  Mark and Anna hold up their young marriage as an "example" for their business of selling the dream of WM marrying much younger UW.  In fact, this thread was started because the OP presented them as an example of an old guy marrying a hot young woman, and how posters here were "wrong".  So, while their marriage is, largely, no one's business they, in a sense, make it others' "business". 

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: chelseaboy on April 30, 2012, 09:02:58 AM
I haven't looked at their website,so are you saying that they state that WM should marry much younger UW ?

If so Mark contradicts himself,because he has stated on this forum that WM should be looking to marry a UW that they get on well with,and that his marriage is an exception rather than the rule.I don't see any statements about deliberately looking for a much younger wife at all.

He states that on post 27 on this thread,his first posting,so i'm not wrong.Seems like you are.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 09:07:54 AM
Sharon, you are very difficult to understand. This was your second post on this thread.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

Then you got upset because an "expert" called you on it.

If this is not what you meant, you are sending the wrong signals.

Because I can't have it. Also I have the right to change my mind if I realized that certain approach does not work for me. I might be accused by sending wrong signals but not for being "hard ass". I will let you decide to what quote you would like to believe. You can believe to both. Many people have contradictions. Some are better in hiding them.       
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 30, 2012, 09:15:48 AM
Sharon, you are very difficult to understand. This was your second post on this thread.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

Then you got upset because an "expert" called you on it.

If this is not what you meant, you are sending the wrong signals.

Because I can't have it. Also I have the right to change my mind if I realized that certain approach does not work for me. I might be accused by sending wrong signals but not for being "hard ass". I will let you decide to what quote you would like to believe. You can believe to both. Many people have contradictions. Some are better in hiding them.     

Hey, I have no problems whatsoever. As long as I know you'll change directions faster that a weathervane, we'll be fine.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 30, 2012, 09:18:51 AM
I haven't looked at their website,so are you saying that they state that WM should marry much younger UW ?

If so Mark contradicts himself,because he has stated on this forum that WM shouldn't be looking to marry much younger UW,and that his marriage is an exception rather than the rule.

He states that on post 27 on this thread,his first posting,so i'm not wrong.Seems like you are.

Look at the "average" age of men on his tour (link posted here) vs the "average" age of the women. 

Look at how prominent his marriage, and their age difference, is "displayed" in his marketing materials. 

Yeah, the age discrepancy is a zero factor in their marketing or their business model.  Nevertheless, I was not commenting specifically on the age difference, though that is what has been discussed here.  Whether fair or not, if you are going to use your marriage as an example in selling a product, your marriage, all facets that are visible, is going to be examined.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 09:34:48 AM
Quote
Hey, I have no problems whatsoever. As long as I know you'll change directions faster that a weathervane, we'll be fine.

Good! we understand each other.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 30, 2012, 09:53:11 AM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on April 30, 2012, 10:31:23 AM
"Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum."

Words from the first page of this TR...not mine but his.

Seems a backlash is brewing on this forum, I have received 11 PM's since last evening and all have grown tired of the same group of guys who post here and on other forums...so these men are on multiple forums of the same subject...interesting.

Part 1... No idea what you're trying to convey. 

Part 2  I like today's confrontation and conspiracy fantasy, Justmd. It's a lot less violent than your last one. Build on that. :)

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: leslied on April 30, 2012, 10:48:56 AM
Several argument's in this thread -

Cradle Snatching

Almost impossible to justify.  Marriage to teenagers is extremely risky.  They have not grown up yet.  Never known ANY commercial operation which recommended this. Impossible in UK  minimum age for fiance visa is 21.  Also tainted by arranged marriage scams.

Youger Wife

Lets set a minimum age at 25.  This is arbitrary but the vast majority of women are functional adults by this age.  Large age gaps are difficult to manage particularly if children are included in future plans.  With older couples this is less of a problem in my personal experience.  I know one very stable couple - she is 40 and he is 69.  Marriage to a younger woman is one of the principle drivers of the MOB business and the simple fact is that FSU women are prepared to accept an older man.  There are very few marriages in this community where the woman is 10+ years older!

Judgmental bullying

This simply should not happen in this community.  Respect other peoples choices even if you would not make the same life decisions.

Problem is that Mark and Anna's relationship looks to fall in the first catagory.  Indeed it may have begun before she was 18.  This would be illegal in Ukraine and may explain the imprecision of the various accounts. However I don't see that Mark is recommending this to others...
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 11:07:50 AM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

Halo

You will be surprised. But several women from Ukraine and Russia wrote me, and living in Israel was not an issue. More than that, there are some advantages. Israel relatively close to Ukraine and Russia (three hours flight between Tel Aviv to Kiev) and airfare cheaper (about 400$. Aeroflot is even cheaper). There is no visa requirements to both sides between Ukraine and Russia to Israel. There is big percentage of Russian speakers who came from the former Soviet Union, so in some cities you can hear more Russian than Hebrew. There are Russian shops and book shops, channel in Russian on TV and radio station. Many Russian nurses and doctors in hospitals and other positions in the system. So in some places they will feel at home.

If I have difficulties, it's only personal. My location is not a factor. I would concern more about living in the USA though...
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 11:29:16 AM
... But several women from Ukraine and Russia wrote me, and living in Israel was not an issue.

You should pay more attention to a woman, such as Halo, who has no motive to mislead you, than to Internet correspondents who might have an agenda.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 30, 2012, 11:51:56 AM
Several argument's in this thread -

Cradle Snatching

Almost impossible to justify.  Marriage to teenagers is extremely risky.  They have not grown up yet.  Never known ANY commercial operation which recommended this. Impossible in UK  minimum age for fiance visa is 21.  Also tainted by arranged marriage scams.


Not so. A Supreme Court ruling last year knocked this back to 18 on Yuuman Rights grounds.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 30, 2012, 11:58:15 AM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

Yet, roughly one-fifth of the population of Israel give or take, is Russian-speaking and many of them (not all with Jewish ancestry, some the wives and husbands of those with Jewish ancestry) are happily living in Israel, many of them from Ukraine...
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 30, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
A Russian or Ukrainian without Jewish ancestry cannot move to Israel under its "law of return" .  So, other than family members in marriage, every Slav there has Jewish ancestry, although most are not recognized as "Jews" for, say marriage (which is controlled by rabbis in Israel). 

About 600,000 Russians/Ukrainians moved to Israel after 1989, and most of those did so because the U.S. was no longer open to them.  I know there was a big move in the early 1990's, when Russia was economically unstable and anti Semitism was occurring.  Many of those with money have returned to start businesses in Russia.

Many face discrimination in Israel, and that certainly is the perception in Ukraine.  I know many Russians who moved from Israel to my city, as business immigrants.  The story is the same.  Many loved many things about Israel, all are Jewish and are still committed to maintaining Hebrew language in their families, but felt "outsiders" there.  This is also a common theme in the Russian/Ukrainian press.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/after-20-years-why-has-russian-immigration-to-israel-stagnated-1.8125

There are a lot of Jews returning to Ukraine from Israel, particularly from the Hassidic Lubavitch (Chabad-Lubavitch) sects.  They have had numerous clashes with Ukrainians.

There are many who state (in Russian newspapers) that living in Tel Aviv is like living in "1950's Moscow" (a definite positive), and that they drive rabbis crazy, as they import salo, but lots of immigrants from Ukraine spend from May to early October in Ukraine.

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter how many Ukrainian Jews emigrate to Israel.  For non Jewish Ukrainians, the political instability of Israel is not a plus.

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 30, 2012, 12:27:57 PM
Ultimately, it all boils down to finding the exception who wants to spend their lives with us  :biggrin: Fortunately, we don't have to marry all, most, many or even some, just one  tiphat
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Halo on April 30, 2012, 12:29:10 PM
True enough.  However, if 99/100 are not receptive to moving, shouldn't one consider a different approach that ups the odds?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Rasputin on April 30, 2012, 12:44:25 PM
True enough.  However, if 99/100 are not receptive to moving, shouldn't one consider a different approach that ups the odds?

Is it 99 or is it 98 or 95? Dating is always a numbers game and for some the number of women they will have contact, meet and date will simply be larger than for others when you are trying to meet the "One". However, that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: leslied on April 30, 2012, 01:15:58 PM
Dogsoldier

You are correct.  See the age decision paragraph on this web page -

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/fiancee-proposed-cp/

Sensible decision. You can vote at 18, so you can marry who you please at 18.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 02:11:23 PM
Quote
In the past few years, Israel has seen an average of between five and six thousand Russian immigrants per year.

Isn't it sufficient amount of emigrants to choose potential spouse from?

Quote
"I feel much better here than I did in Russia," Garshina said. She believes the low number of new immigrants from Russia may have something to do with the way that Israel is represented back in Russia. "People think it's a war zone where people are killing each other on the streets. My friends thought I was moving to the end of the world, where I would be in danger at every second."

 :biggrin: 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 02:31:04 PM
... But several women from Ukraine and Russia wrote me, and living in Israel was not an issue.

You should pay more attention to a woman, such as Halo, who has no motive to mislead you, than to Internet correspondents who might have an agenda.

If I got you right Tom, the woman may have a motive to mislead me(?) And the correspondence agenda is something like: "I let you believe I'm gonna live with you in Israel, but I don't have plans" (in sub context she has other motives than relationship and relocation)(?) 
Or if the woman initiated the contact, she red in my ad where I live. Bottom line, none of my correspondents who dumped me mentioned my country as a reason.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 03:00:51 PM
I don't believe the women who told you that living in Israel was not an issue but I don't have time to list every possible motivation that a woman might have for lying to you.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 03:17:16 PM
I don't believe the women who told you that living in Israel was not an issue

You don't have to. No women ever refer to this issue. No woman told me otherwise.

Quote
but I don't have time to list every possible motivation that a woman might have for lying to you.

Ok, but it will be enlightening to hear some. It's not all or nothing. List few that are more important. At least I would say that this thread had some useful content.   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Donhollio on April 30, 2012, 03:56:47 PM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

 I met a few UA girls all within a month and they all like Israel. One married some Israeli guy and moved there. One visits regularly,and the other dreamed of moving there after visiting. Personally I think they're all fuct, but wadda I know.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 04:00:36 PM
Sharon, over the time you have been posting on this forum I got impression that you dismiss without consideration any information/advice that takes you out of comfort of your own desires and hold tight to anything that would keep fantasy fueled. Someone may view it as optimism and positive thinking; and someone as a blindness and refusal to accept reality.

I concur what Halo said

sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

No one said you wont be able to find, just it wont be piece of cake. You holding tight to fantasy that moving to Israel not less desirable then to lets say USA or Britain just because no women on dating sites ever referred to this issue. Just think about it for a minute!


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:02:50 PM
Quote
I don't have time to list every possible motivation that a woman might have for lying to you.

I think that this issue is important enough to open new topic: "possible motivation for a woman for lying to you".

There are things that are obvious to you and to other members here. But I haven't raised up with the natural understanding of lying. For me there are two options: the woman is interested or not interested. Showing interest while she is not - I don't understand by nature. I will try if somebody explain this to me scientifically.   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
No women ever refer to this issue. No woman told me otherwise.

The picture has become clear: you assumed that the absence of discussion about the issue of moving to Israel meant that they were all happy to immigrate. Judging by the results, their happiness was exaggerated.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:10:53 PM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

 I met a few UA girls all within a month and they all like Israel. One married some Israeli guy and moved there. One visits regularly,and the other dreamed of moving there after visiting. Personally I think they're all fuct, but wadda I know.

Exactly Don. What do you know? They have been in Israel and you haven't. So on what do you base you opinion?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 30, 2012, 04:11:57 PM
Quote
I don't have time to list every possible motivation that a woman might have for lying to you.

I think that this issue is important enough to open new topic: "possible motivation for a woman for lying to you".

There are things that are obvious to you and to other members here. But I haven't raised up with the natural understanding of lying. For me there are two options: the woman is interested or not interested. Showing interest while she is not - I don't understand by nature. I will try if somebody explain this to me scientifically.   

Read all the posts you've made here. You might understand then. :dh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:15:59 PM
No women ever refer to this issue. No woman told me otherwise.

The picture has become clear: you assumed that the absence of discussion about the issue of moving to Israel meant that they were all happy to immigrate. Judging by the results, their happiness was exaggerated.

Tom. I'm waiting to your REAL contribution for the subject, to list some motivations for a woman for lying...please. Take your time if needed.

If so, what is their motivation to write with me anyway?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:19:58 PM
Quote
Read all the posts you've made here. You might understand then.

 ???

I might understand what?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 04:31:54 PM
Tom. I'm waiting to your REAL contribution for the subject, to list some motivations for a woman for lying...please. Take your time if needed.

A women might pretend that she has interest to preserve her options... until she determines whether her correspondent is intelligent or stupid, sane or deranged, wealthy or poor. 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 04:35:44 PM
Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:36:38 PM
Sharon, over the time you have been posting on this forum I got impression that you dismiss without consideration any information/advice that takes you out of comfort of your own desires and hold tight to anything that would keep fantasy fueled. Someone may view it as optimism and positive thinking; and someone as a blindness and refusal to accept reality.

I am stupid asshole then...

Quote
I concur what Halo said

sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

No one said you wont be able to find, just it wont be piece of cake. You holding tight to fantasy that moving to Israel not less desirable then to lets say USA or Britain just because no women on dating sites ever referred to this issue. Just think about it for a minute!

Have you been in Israel miss A? It won't be piece of cake because: 1, I live in Israel (which is not desirable destination for FSU women, according to general opinion here) or 2, it's not easy anyway, regardless to the place you live?   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:43:17 PM
Tom. I'm waiting to your REAL contribution for the subject, to list some motivations for a woman for lying...please. Take your time if needed.

A women might pretend that she has interest to preserve her options... until she determines whether her correspondent is intelligent or stupid, sane or deranged, wealthy or poor.

I think I know what Dog meant :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 04:46:36 PM
Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.

Oh, not for me :sick0012:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 30, 2012, 04:48:37 PM
Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.
Surely  not JC.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 30, 2012, 04:51:26 PM


If so, what is their motivation to write with me anyway?

I don't say this is for women but, when someone shows that it takes them a long time to grasp the main idea, they tend to become targets.

The slower the level of comprehension, the higher the risk of being taken to the cleaners.

Try to figure that one out. Feel free to ask questions.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 04:53:44 PM
Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.

Oh, not for me :sick0012:

Why not for you? You seems to did not understand that I will not be so honest with those boyfriends; they will believe I love them and want to marry them; I dont mind from what country they are from as far as financially those relationships will benefit me; you are easily could be one of them  :biggrin:


P.S. I can write more convincing love letters then those you have been posting on this forum
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 30, 2012, 04:55:44 PM
Quote
Read all the posts you've made here. You might understand then.

 ???

I might understand what?

it would seem NOT!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:02:15 PM


If so, what is their motivation to write with me anyway?

I don't say this is for women but, when someone shows that it takes them a long time to grasp the main idea, they tend to become targets.

The slower the level of comprehension, the higher the risk of being taken to the cleaners.

Try to figure that one out. Feel free to ask questions.

Thanks Muzh. I sometimes needed heavy hammer on my head to figure out things, but once I figure it out I wonder how is that I didn't see it before. I figured out things in the hard way until recently. I figured out things from this forum as well.   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 30, 2012, 05:02:28 PM
Sigh,

Sharon could find a FSUW more than happy to move to Israel.

What he won't find is a twenty year old girl who is willing to do this
without some nefarious agenda that involves draining his bank account and
the selling of his organs. 

Here is one absolute fact that you can take to the bank.

Zero sexy, attractive 20 year old legit non scammer FSUW ever wrote a letter to you or to me.
I got letters all right but 100% of the time it was a scheme to separate me from some of my money.

Want some advice that actually works?
1. Search for women who are Jewish
2. Search the entire world leave no stone unturned
3. NEVER EVER GO ON A PAY BY THE LETTER SITE
4. This is a numbers game. Write lots of letters
5. Expand your search to girls who are older

Hot non scamming 20 year old FSUW do NOT write initial letters to men.
Hot non scamming 20 year old FSUW do NOT write initial letters to men.
Hot non scamming 20 year old FSUW do NOT write initial letters to men.

They don't do it, they don't need to. It's not part of FSUW culture
to write initial letters to men. The only ones who write initial letters
are ones who don't otherwise get any attention from men. 


Udachi !

Bill
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:08:18 PM
Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.

Oh, not for me :sick0012:

Why not for you? You seems to did not understand that I will not be so honest with those boyfriends; they will believe I love them and want to marry them; I dont mind from what country they are from as far as financially those relationships will benefit me; you are easily could be one of them  :biggrin:


P.S. I can write more convincing love letters then those you have been posting on this forum

Because I wouldn't think to have a girl that these are her requirements. And if the girl is not so honest why should I invest time and energy on her?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 05:09:58 PM
I am stupid asshole then...

That is your own interpretation; I only said you are naive at times and refusing to take off your rose colored glasses

Have you been in Israel miss A? It won't be piece of cake because: 1, I live in Israel (which is not desirable destination for FSU women, according to general opinion here) or 2, it's not easy anyway, regardless to the place you live?   

Again you missed the point what I have been trying to say.

I havent been to Israel and I am sure most of UW on international dating sites havent been there either. So how do we make our mind about country we never visited ... oh probably as anyone else: watching news, reading and listening various opinions from people we know. Is that the best way to form opinion about country? Oh no. But hey ho that is the way it's happening.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 05:16:06 PM
Because I wouldn't think to have a girl that these are her requirements. And if the girl is not so honest why should I invest time and energy on her?

Sharon, the requirements listed fot right husband candidate never will be known to boyfriends  :'(

And dont take offence but true is you have serious problems with distinguish dishonest girl from honest (or either of those from purple elephant).
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Muzh_1 on April 30, 2012, 05:18:26 PM


Sharon, the requirements listed fot right husband candidate never will be known to boyfriends  :'(

And dont take offence but true is you have serious problems with distinguish dishonest girl from honest (or either of those from purple elephant).

MissA, funny you say that. Why don't you hop over to Larry's new thread about how to determine if some girl is into you?  :smokin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:24:21 PM
Quote
watching news

It's not a good idea to form opinion from the media.

Quote
reading and listening various opinions from people we know.

Better from people who have been there. A friend of mine had seen lots of tourist from Kiev in vacation resort in the Dead Sea. The best source to ask for forming opinion.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
Because I wouldn't think to have a girl that these are her requirements. And if the girl is not so honest why should I invest time and energy on her?

Sharon, the requirements listed fot right husband candidate never will be known to boyfriends  :'(


Who is the "boyfriend" in our story miss A?

Quote
And dont take offence but true is you have serious problems with distinguish dishonest girl from honest (or either of those from purple elephant).

да
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 05:34:36 PM
Quote
watching news

It's not a good idea to form opinion from the media.

Quote
reading and listening various opinions from people we know.

Better from people who have been there. A friend of mine had seen lots of tourist from Kiev in vacation resort in the Dead Sea. The best source to ask for forming opinion.

Sharon, again missing the point. If I (put here name of any FSUW on dating site) am interested to go for holiday to Israel I will ask opinion of those who visited "resort in the Dead Sea". If we talking about marrying and relocating to Israel at no circumstances I will dismiss information about country on the news.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:37:30 PM
Sigh,

Sharon could find a FSUW more than happy to move to Israel.

What he won't find is a twenty year old girl who is willing to do this
without some nefarious agenda that involves draining his bank account and
the selling of his organs. 

Here is one absolute fact that you can take to the bank.

Zero sexy, attractive 20 year old legit non scammer FSUW ever wrote a letter to you or to me.
I got letters all right but 100% of the time it was a scheme to separate me from some of my money.

Want some advice that actually works?
1. Search for women who are Jewish
2. Search the entire world leave no stone unturned
3. NEVER EVER GO ON A PAY BY THE LETTER SITE
4. This is a numbers game. Write lots of letters
5. Expand your search to girls who are older

Hot non scamming 20 year old FSUW do NOT write initial letters to men.
Hot non scamming 20 year old FSUW do NOT write initial letters to men.
Hot non scamming 20 year old FSUW do NOT write initial letters to men.

They don't do it, they don't need to. It's not part of FSUW culture
to write initial letters to men. The only ones who write initial letters
are ones who don't otherwise get any attention from men. 


Udachi !

Bill

Do you mean such girls who are hopping on your avatar?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 30, 2012, 05:47:55 PM
A friend of mine had seen lots of tourist from Kiev in vacation resort in the Dead Sea. The best source to ask for forming opinion.
Sadly common life is different from vacation time in the Dead Sea... I know (and talk with) few Jews relocating to Israel and still living there ... nobody from them recommend Israel to be the best place for living, just an entrepot.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:48:17 PM
Quote
Sharon, again missing the point. If I (put here name of any FSUW on dating site) am interested to go for holiday to Israel I will ask opinion of those who visited "resort in the Dead Sea". If we talking about marrying and relocating to Israel at no circumstances I will dismiss information about country on the news.

But the news can be manipulated by the media. They can create impression of a war zone. To my understanding if a woman from dating site want to check out the option of relocating she should visit first as a tourist and get impression of the country. Since there is no such thing here like k1 fiancee visa requirements for a visit, there is no problem to visit here.   
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 05:49:21 PM
Who is the "boyfriend" in our story miss A?


Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.

Sharon, its getting really silly now. Conversation started from why would women on international dating site lie ... I gave you one example; you could be one of those boyfriends that will be used but never considered as right husband candidate, country wont be issue what so ever and conversations will never bring the issues with relocating to Israel. There many other examples could be.

Point: women do lie on dating sites; not all but from what you posted on this forum looks like you interested in those that lie to you a lot. Honest woman would bring the issues of relocating to Israel, ask lots of questions about country; girls that interested in your wallet have no interest of talking about "issues"
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:53:09 PM
A friend of mine had seen lots of tourist from Kiev in vacation resort in the Dead Sea. The best source to ask for forming opinion.
Sadly common life is different from vacation time in the Dead Sea... I know (and talk with) few Jews relocating to Israel and still living there ... nobody from them recommend Israel to be the best place for living, just an entrepot.

Millaa. It will be interesting to know what were their complaints about living in Israel. And if so, why are they still live there?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: NS1 on April 30, 2012, 05:54:05 PM
MissA, you should get an award for perseverance :nod:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 05:57:27 PM
Who is the "boyfriend" in our story miss A?


Oh lets just look at some very obvious example

I am 20+something, attractive, no kids, live in Ukraine. I may consider marriage for serious if the right candidate* comes along ... in the mean time I like to keep few international boyfriends that believe one day I marry them, send me regularly expensive gift and take me few times a year on vacations.


right candidate* - 30+something, attractive, no kids, lives in Switzerland, owns mansion+holiday home+few cars+boat, have well paid job, smart.

P.S. Sharon, just use imagination.

Sharon, its getting really silly now. Conversation started from why would women on international dating site lie ... I gave you one example; you could be one of those boyfriends that will be used but never considered as right husband candidate, country wont be issue what so ever and conversations will never bring the issues with relocating to Israel. There many other examples could be.

Point: women do lie on dating sites; not all but from what you posted on this forum looks like you interested in those that lie to you a lot. Honest woman would bring the issues of relocating to Israel, ask lots of questions about country; girls that interested in your wallet have no interest of talking about "issues"

Got the idea missA. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: missAmeno on April 30, 2012, 06:00:08 PM
MissA, you should get an award for perseverance :nod:

Got the idea missA. Thanks :)

EUREKA!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 06:02:37 PM
MissA, you should get an award for perseverance :nod:

She is the most appreciated member by me here, nova scotia.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on April 30, 2012, 06:03:51 PM
A friend of mine had seen lots of tourist from Kiev in vacation resort in the Dead Sea. The best source to ask for forming opinion.
Sadly common life is different from vacation time in the Dead Sea... I know (and talk with) few Jews relocating to Israel and still living there ... nobody from them recommend Israel to be the best place for living, just an entrepot.

Millaa. It will be interesting to know what were their complaints about living in Israel. And if so, why are they still live there?
not for long... packing luggage already >>> relocating to Canuckistan  ;D
they are from Haifa ... try to refresh ur memmory about 2006...  :smokin:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on April 30, 2012, 06:11:25 PM
A friend of mine had seen lots of tourist from Kiev in vacation resort in the Dead Sea. The best source to ask for forming opinion.
Sadly common life is different from vacation time in the Dead Sea... I know (and talk with) few Jews relocating to Israel and still living there ... nobody from them recommend Israel to be the best place for living, just an entrepot.

Millaa. It will be interesting to know what were their complaints about living in Israel. And if so, why are they still live there?
not for long... packing luggage already >>> relocating to Canuckistan  ;D
they are from Haifa ... try to refresh ur memmory about 2006...  :smokin:

The Hizbala sent missiles (katiusha) on Haifa... but it's over. get over it! maybe they don't feel belong. I don't blame them.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 30, 2012, 06:23:27 PM
Do you mean such girls who are hopping on your avatar?

Wait a minute !
I think the horn player might like me  :laugh:

Udachi !

I will post my avatar here because I change them fairly often

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AgqnsHZYj60/T1Eb7OP9fGI/AAAAAAAAb1c/Q2qnGccn9EU/s1600/FGbadsinging.gif)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Donhollio on April 30, 2012, 06:37:43 PM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

 I met a few UA girls all within a month and they all like Israel. One married some Israeli guy and moved there. One visits regularly,and the other dreamed of moving there after visiting. Personally I think they're all fuct, but wadda I know.

Exactly Don. What do you know? They have been in Israel and you haven't. So on what do you base you opinion?

 I base my opinion on uhhh well lets see.... A foreign policy that refuses to accept international borders. Routinely invades its neighours,takes back land they feel is theirs to build new settlements on lands they are not suppose to. Has a little guy in Iran that wants to wipe the country clean.
 Bombings, being on the receiving end of rouge missiles. Shit ya even have managed to anger the USA your only true supporter. Ohh but wait, you guys buy the military thingys from them, so they kinda need to be there for you. Not to mention all the Jews who have lots of influence in America, and I suppose even the lobby groups... America wouldn't be what it is without those beacons of hope and reality.  :-\   

 Sharron I'm sure the country is nice visually... well if your not staring at the 10 metre barrier wall. But with all its problems its hardly the place most wish to live. The stupid religious indifference's you have with your neighbours,and they with you is never going to subside.
  And to someone who lives in a great country such as Canada, heading to live in Israel is so very far down the list.  Now to a girl who has struggled, and seen her parents struggle with life in the FSU, Israel may seem like a beautiful haven.
  You just need to keep in mind that you are competing with better, safer, and far more stable countries. Toss in an age gap and you've increased the unlikelyhood of success.

 I have not read very many of your posts, but what ever road you go down I wish you all the best. tiphat
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on April 30, 2012, 06:42:49 PM
I wish you all the best. tiphat

Donny, the next time you complain about all the political
talk you are officially on notice of getting teased about it.

 ;D
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 07:09:25 PM
Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.

I was trying to leave this man's name out of it....but this is the posting.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 07:25:40 PM
I wish that I had a dollar for every member who has claimed a groundswell of support, through the PM system, from their imaginary friends.

For those people who are interested in such things, this is a variation of "appeal to widespread belief." People who employ this fallacy attempt to make their case by indicating that it must be true because many people believe that it is. Nevermind that the majority of people once believed that the Earth was flat or that one could not contract HIV from a heterosexual...


p.s.

Don't mind me; I'm just jealous because I have fewer imaginary friends.

You seem to prove my point with every one of your comments. I have this thought when reading your postings that if you smiled your face would crack.

p.s.

I have not seen p.s. used since passing notes to girls in high school.  tiphat
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 30, 2012, 07:37:52 PM
p.s.

I have not seen p.s. used since passing notes to girls in high school.  tiphat

I hope there wasn't a big age gap.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 07:39:46 PM
Justmd, why the hell are you wasting time talking to your girl about things on here?  :drunk:
 This place can be very toxic to a relationship.

Nothing to hide is my answer  :thumbsup:

I joined this forum to learn more and have gained some very good info and advice...some not so good.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 07:43:20 PM
p.s.

I have not seen p.s. used since passing notes to girls in high school.  tiphat

I hope there wasn't a big age gap.

 :laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Vinnvinny on April 30, 2012, 07:45:26 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 07:53:44 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: VIP on April 30, 2012, 08:39:23 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Nice copy paste from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophomore
 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.

It's folly to hide behind your girl and post derogatory comments by proxy in her name (if even true). If you open that door it can get messy if a member responds in kind.

Still waiting on that link...

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.
Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass

Derogatory comments about what,older men who pursue young girls? I don't hide behind Marina as she knows I am the type who will say what I think and not care what others will say...with the exception of her.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 08:55:19 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Nice copy paste from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophomore
 :chuckle:

Your point is? wtf
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: VIP on April 30, 2012, 09:01:29 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Nice copy paste from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophomore
 :chuckle:

Your point is? wtf
Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's dark thirty so I know you are drinking tequila as usual.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 09:13:12 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Nice copy paste from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophomore
 :chuckle:

Your point is? wtf
Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's dark thirty so I know you are drinking tequila as usual.  :chuckle:

ok, that was different. "It's dark thirty" may I ask your age?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: VIP on April 30, 2012, 09:25:11 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Nice copy paste from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophomore
 :chuckle:

Your point is? wtf
Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's dark thirty so I know you are drinking tequila as usual.  :chuckle:

ok, that was different. "It's dark thirty" may I ask your age?
LOL, I don't normally use that term, just something I heard a few times.
Sure, you can ask, but my age is an unlisted number.  :biggrin:
But I am probably half a century younger than Tom.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 09:49:54 PM
LOL, I don't normally use that term, just something I heard a few times.
Sure, you can ask, but my age is an unlisted number.  :biggrin:
But I am probably half a century younger than Tom.  :laugh:

You knew that J couldn't possibly have written that definition of "sophomore" by himself. That's a good call for someone who is only 13.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 09:51:12 PM
Nicknick and TomCat,

I think what we're dealing with here is Mark not realizing that accuracy counts when conveying information to members on a forum such as ours. In otherwords, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Let's just get right to it and link an interview dated Jan of this year and listen to Anna explain the timeline in her own words...

 
I'll convey this though, Mark should be aware that timelines do become important in significant age gap marriages especially when ones bride is/was Anna's age. He runs an agency. He is a service provider. There are those that would seek to discredit him or misconstrue what he's written/posted/talked of and those that could genuinely and in good conscience arrive at a misunderstanding if questioning such a timeline. As an SP he needs to ensure that ambiguous language regarding himself, his business and his own marriage is kept to a minimum.

When Mark first arrived I did what I normally do with commercial members and conducted an internet search to see what's what and did raise an eyebrow at one or two minor variations (based on several sources-internet vids, book review(s), converstaion on forums etc.) of dates and ages. However, I've come to the conclusion based on their individual webcasts, youtube vids, nationally broadcast interviews and written word that they are consistant and appear truthful when they relate the history of how they met and how old they were/are.

I was aware of the post you've both cited and was looking to see if our self described Mr. HardA$$ was even cognizant and capable of articulating what exactly he was accusing Mark of and inviting him to clarify besides posting beligerent comments.

 Good comments, you guys.

Brass

Sorry If I hurt your feelings and will remember this in the future but Mr. Davis has yet to articulate or clarify himself? again I will try to refrain from being such a harda$$ or beligerent.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 09:53:51 PM
:laugh: No, was a sophomore in high school.

I'm sorry but I only speak English.  :(

Sophomore is a term to describe a student in the second year of study at high school or university. It is used primarily in the United States.
Nice copy paste from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophomore
 :chuckle:

Your point is? wtf
Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's dark thirty so I know you are drinking tequila as usual.  :chuckle:

ok, that was different. "It's dark thirty" may I ask your age?
LOL, I don't normally use that term, just something I heard a few times.
Sure, you can ask, but my age is an unlisted number.  :biggrin:
But I am probably half a century younger than Tom.  :laugh:

My 23 year son and his friends use that term, is the only reason I asked.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 09:59:48 PM
LOL, I don't normally use that term, just something I heard a few times.
Sure, you can ask, but my age is an unlisted number.  :biggrin:
But I am probably half a century younger than Tom.  :laugh:

You knew that J couldn't possibly have written that definition of "sophomore" by himself. That's a good call for someone who is only 13.

Tom,

Again, you keep making this so easy...how old are you?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: VIP on April 30, 2012, 10:00:27 PM
LOL, I don't normally use that term, just something I heard a few times.
Sure, you can ask, but my age is an unlisted number.  :biggrin:
But I am probably half a century younger than Tom.  :laugh:

You knew that J couldn't possibly have written that definition of "sophomore" by himself. That's a good call for someone who is only 13.
Thanks  :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 10:06:04 PM
You seem to prove my point with every one of your comments. I have this thought when reading your postings that if you smiled your face would crack.

p.s.

I have not seen p.s. used since passing notes to girls in high school.

The only thing that's been proven is that your writing borders on being incomprehensible, you can't debate anything without bloating your rebuttals with irrelevancies and you couldn't give the definition of "sophomore" without looking it up on Wiki. Perhaps you should have spent more time paying attention in class and less time passing notes.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on April 30, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
LOL, I don't normally use that term, just something I heard a few times.
Sure, you can ask, but my age is an unlisted number.  :biggrin:
But I am probably half a century younger than Tom.  :laugh:

You knew that J couldn't possibly have written that definition of "sophomore" by himself. That's a good call for someone who is only 13.
Thanks  :laugh:

Amazing!!  :laugh:

no words needed to add, good night.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on April 30, 2012, 10:27:49 PM
Again, you keep making this so easy...

 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on May 01, 2012, 01:42:32 AM
Sorry If I hurt your feelings and will remember this in the future but Mr. Davis has yet to articulate or clarify himself? again I will try to refrain from being such a harda$$ or beligerent.

You overestimate yourself. Other than identifying and pointing out your proclivity towards fantasizing about violent encounters and posting untruthful statements on this forum you're not important enough to influence my feelings one way or the other.

Your assertion has already been shown to be incorrect. Mark has nothing to clarify. All that remains is for you to withdraw your untruthful statement and/or apologize.

Quote
I will try to refrain from being such a harda$$ or beligerent.

Again you overestimate yourself. The term "Hardass" usually denotes 'tough but fair'. You are neither.

Absolutely do try and refrain from posting beligerent comments. Infact, for the future I'm going to insist on it.

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on May 01, 2012, 01:43:29 AM
Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.

I was trying to leave this man's name out of it....but this is the posting.

OK I am a simpleton so please clear this up. Chelseaboy is a screen name of a member who made a post.  All members know when posting they may be quoted. How exactly is that pulling a "man's name" into anything?
You stated that Anna was 17 when they met.  This post says 18.
Are you talking about something completely different or making some other point?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on May 01, 2012, 02:13:12 AM
Derogatory comments about what,older men who pursue young girls? I don't hide behind Marina as she knows I am the type who will say what I think and not care what others will say...with the exception of her.

No. Posting derogaratory comments in Marina's name like the quote above and this comment upthread...

...Today I read some of the comments posted here to Marina, she said she hopes these men do not find her country.

So, you do hide behind her name, I've just shown you two examples of you doing it.

Yeah? I have a name for the type of person who says (or posts) what they think (I suspect without thinking may be a more accurate description) and not care what others may also have to say (convey) -  Narcissist(ic).

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on May 01, 2012, 06:54:58 AM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

 I met a few UA girls all within a month and they all like Israel. One married some Israeli guy and moved there. One visits regularly,and the other dreamed of moving there after visiting. Personally I think they're all fuct, but wadda I know.

Exactly Don. What do you know? They have been in Israel and you haven't. So on what do you base you opinion?

 I base my opinion on uhhh well lets see.... A foreign policy that refuses to accept international borders. Routinely invades its neighours,takes back land they feel is theirs to build new settlements on lands they are not suppose to. Has a little guy in Iran that wants to wipe the country clean.
 Bombings, being on the receiving end of rouge missiles. Shit ya even have managed to anger the USA your only true supporter. Ohh but wait, you guys buy the military thingys from them, so they kinda need to be there for you. Not to mention all the Jews who have lots of influence in America, and I suppose even the lobby groups... America wouldn't be what it is without those beacons of hope and reality. :-\   

 Sharron I'm sure the country is nice visually... well if your not staring at the 10 metre barrier wall. But with all its problems its hardly the place most wish to live. The stupid religious indifference's you have with your neighbours,and they with you is never going to subside.
  And to someone who lives in a great country such as Canada, heading to live in Israel is so very far down the list.  Now to a girl who has struggled, and seen her parents struggle with life in the FSU, Israel may seem like a beautiful haven.
  You just need to keep in mind that you are competing with better, safer, and far more stable countries. Toss in an age gap and you've increased the unlikelyhood of success.

 I have not read very many of your posts, but what ever road you go down I wish you all the best. tiphat


Don, this is typically written by someone who doesn't used to do homework before he forms some opinion or go for some trip overseas.
Also it's typical to old guys and young anarchists who are politically minded and form opinions without previous experience on the subject.

Your opinions about Israel were formed from what you've heard from the media.
I think that you already have enough years to understand that believing to the media is equal to believing to marriage agencies. They will tell you half truth. They have agenda in the west, which is: Arab oil da. Israel niet. There is always another side to the coin. They will tell you one side that is more politically correct and serves their interests as I mentioned above.

The question should be how your Ukrainian female friends who attend to live in/had moved to Israel might be affected by the "problems" you've mentioned. I will break it down:

Quote
A foreign policy that refuses to accept international borders

This is irrelevant. It's also false statement.

Quote
Routinely invades its neighours, to build new settlements on lands they are not suppose to.

Also not relevant and false statement.

Quote
Has a little guy in Iran that wants to wipe the country clean.

So? Are you scared? There was a little guy hiding in some cave in Afghanistan. No body told it was a reason not to live in Manhattan.

Quote
Bombings, being on the receiving end of rouge missiles.

For some places for some period it was the case. Nevertheless in my 40 something years in this country I've never experience any close missiles attack.
But if we would talk about lets say living in USA, I would be scared by the fact that anybody can purchase gun in the supermarket.

Quote
Shit ya even have managed to anger the USA your only true supporter.

How? Whatever, is it relevant to your Ukrainian female friends?

Quote
Ohh but wait, you guys buy the military thingys from them, so they kinda need to be there for you. Not to mention all the Jews who have lots of influence in America, and I suppose even the lobby groups... America wouldn't be what it is without those beacons of hope and reality. :-\

And that makes the Ukrainian ladies who want to live in Israel  :censored:t?

By the way, I think that Israel should give up any support from USA because this is very toxic to the society who receives the support. Any country that relied on support from USA eventually screwed up.

Quote
Sharron I'm sure the country is nice visually... well if your not staring at the 10 metre barrier wall.

Some places are… depends how you decorate it (3 to 4 meters for you)

Quote
But with all its problems its hardly the place most wish to live.

I can not argue with one and half million emigrants from the FSU.

Quote
The stupid religious indifference's you have with your neighbours,and they with you is never going to subside.

Probably. How that will affect our ladies from Ukraine?

Quote
And to someone who lives in a great country such as Canada, heading to live in Israel is so very far down the list.

Of course, that is understood. Interestingly some years ago I met woman who had been emigrated from Canada to the settlement where I work. I asked her what made her decide to move to here (and leave a big house behind). There is nice community here, she said. 

Quote
Now to a girl who has struggled, and seen her parents struggle with life in the FSU, Israel may seem like a beautiful haven.

Can be to your Ukrainian female friends too?

Quote
You just need to keep in mind that you are competing with better, safer, and far more stable countries. Toss in an age gap and you've increased the unlikelyhood of success.

1, as long as you don't experience living in some country you can't really know what place is better.

2, is it the guy and what he has to offer matters for the girl or it is the country?

3, keep in mind that these Ukrainian girls you've met have positive personal experience while being in Israel.

Quote
I have not read very many of your posts, but what ever road you go down I wish you all the best. tiphat

Thanks :)   

     
       
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on May 01, 2012, 09:17:54 AM
Most of us have an opinion on just about everything. I suspect the direction of this thread will go south or ballistic and it does nothing for RUA as a whole.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on May 01, 2012, 09:26:39 AM
Most of us have an opinion on just about everything. I suspect the direction of this thread will go south or ballistic and it does nothing for RUA as a whole.

The other discussion on this thread about Mask & Anna and age gaps is no longer interesting for me.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on May 01, 2012, 09:30:29 AM
Most of us have an opinion on just about everything. I suspect the direction of this thread will go south or ballistic and it does nothing for RUA as a whole.

The other discussion on this thread about Mask & Anna and age gaps is no longer interesting for me.

I suspect we have now have Sterlin#2  :chuckle:

Perhaps the moderators could delete those posts referring to #315 and further on that subject.

Or perhaps the moderators just want some work.  :hidechair:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on May 01, 2012, 09:45:00 AM
Most of us have an opinion on just about everything. I suspect the direction of this thread will go south or ballistic and it does nothing for RUA as a whole.

The other discussion on this thread about Mask & Anna and age gaps is no longer interesting for me.

I suspect we have now have Sterlin#2  :chuckle:

Perhaps the moderators could delete those posts referring to #315 and further on that subject.

Or perhaps the moderators just want some work.  :hidechair:

No problem. If all this thread will be deleted I don't care. Or maybe someone wants to keep it in museum.

I've lost track of the other debate here. I don't have unlimited time to read them all. Surely there are far more interesting topics here to read rather than this thread.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on May 01, 2012, 11:07:59 AM
Perhaps the moderators could delete those posts referring to #315 and further on that subject.

It's fine; far worse has been preserved.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on May 01, 2012, 08:08:46 PM
Sorry If I hurt your feelings and will remember this in the future but Mr. Davis has yet to articulate or clarify himself? again I will try to refrain from being such a harda$$ or beligerent.

You overestimate yourself. Other than identifying and pointing out your proclivity towards fantasizing about violent encounters and posting untruthful statements on this forum you're not important enough to influence my feelings one way or the other.

Your assertion has already been shown to be incorrect. Mark has nothing to clarify. All that remains is for you to withdraw your untruthful statement and/or apologize.

Quote
I will try to refrain from being such a harda$$ or beligerent.

Again you overestimate yourself. The term "Hardass" usually denotes 'tough but fair'. You are neither.

Absolutely do try and refrain from posting beligerent comments. Infact, for the future I'm going to insist on it.

Brass

Brass,

So you will hold others up to this same standard as well as me and you will also be held accountable to your words?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on May 02, 2012, 12:37:41 AM
Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.

I was trying to leave this man's name out of it....but this is the posting.

OK I am a simpleton so please clear this up. Chelseaboy is a screen name of a member who made a post.  All members know when posting they may be quoted. How exactly is that pulling a "man's name" into anything?
You stated that Anna was 17 when they met.  This post says 18.
Are you talking about something completely different or making some other point?

When you find time between laundry loads......
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on May 02, 2012, 08:31:54 AM
Nine posts removed - Off topic/out of context.

Brass
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on May 02, 2012, 08:55:28 AM
Brass,

So you will hold others up to this same standard as well as me and you will also be held accountable to your words?

You are under the mistaken impression we are negotiating, we're not. Nevermind the others and pay attention to your own conduct and messages.

Conduct and messages includes posting off topic quotes/links etc. in order to derail a topic.

Brass

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: sharonhaber00 on May 02, 2012, 01:37:12 PM
sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

Unless you own marriage agency ;D


Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on May 02, 2012, 08:53:15 PM
Brass,

So you will hold others up to this same standard as well as me and you will also be held accountable to your words?

You are under the mistaken impression we are negotiating, we're not. Nevermind the others and pay attention to your own conduct and messages.

Conduct and messages includes posting off topic quotes/links etc. in order to derail a topic.

Brass

But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: VIP on May 02, 2012, 09:03:07 PM
Brass,

So you will hold others up to this same standard as well as me and you will also be held accountable to your words?

You are under the mistaken impression we are negotiating, we're not. Nevermind the others and pay attention to your own conduct and messages.

Conduct and messages includes posting off topic quotes/links etc. in order to derail a topic.

Brass

But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?
Now that is very simple. It is like; when a not so beautiful girl seems to not like a very beautiful girl. They are just jealous, like silly girls.  :nod:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on May 02, 2012, 09:09:12 PM
Brass,

7039 postings and your status is looking...then you want to tell me about my girlfriend?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on May 02, 2012, 09:35:22 PM
Brass,

So you will hold others up to this same standard as well as me and you will also be held accountable to your words?

You are under the mistaken impression we are negotiating, we're not. Nevermind the others and pay attention to your own conduct and messages.

Conduct and messages includes posting off topic quotes/links etc. in order to derail a topic.

Brass

But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?

Maryland Guy ~ Please give it a rest! This is going no where.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Larry on May 02, 2012, 09:50:21 PM
Quote
But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?

I don't believe Brass dislikes Americans.  I'm one American to whom he has always been helpful and kind.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: 2tallbill on May 02, 2012, 10:07:59 PM
Quote
But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?

I don't believe Brass dislikes Americans.  I'm one American to whom he has always been helpful and kind.

Brass has been accused of liking Americans too much in other threads.

Mods can't win but we need guys who will make the tough decisions and
Brass can do that.

Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on May 02, 2012, 10:16:47 PM
Quote
But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?

I don't believe Brass dislikes Americans.  I'm one American to whom he has always been helpful and kind.

Brass has been accused of liking Americans too much in other threads.

Mods can't win but we need guys who will make the tough decisions and
Brass can do that.

I have not seen the clear unbiased decisions? maybe I bring the worst out in him...and the Caps just lost in triple over-time...damn!!!!
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on May 02, 2012, 10:53:25 PM
Martyr complex
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Millaa on May 03, 2012, 01:52:52 AM
Brass,

7039 postings and your status is looking...then you want to tell me about my girlfriend?

Is lack of tact a national American trait or Justyourpersonalfeature?
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: AvHdB on May 03, 2012, 02:09:59 AM
Brass,

7039 postings and your status is looking...then you want to tell me about my girlfriend?

Is lack of tact a national American trait or Justyourpersonalfeature?

His team lost and he did not crack enough crabs. :)
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: TomT on May 03, 2012, 06:49:23 AM
Is lack of tact a national American trait... ?

Illiteracy is epidemic in America. People who can't express themself clearly through the written word often give the impression of tactlessness. To give you an idea of the magnitude of the problem, those Americans who post here are generally above average.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: welder on May 03, 2012, 07:07:08 AM
Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen. :)

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.

I was trying to leave this man's name out of it....but this is the posting.

OK I am a simpleton so please clear this up. Chelseaboy is a screen name of a member who made a post.  All members know when posting they may be quoted. How exactly is that pulling a "man's name" into anything?
You stated that Anna was 17 when they met.  This post says 18.
Are you talking about something completely different or making some other point?

When you find time between laundry loads......

OK, I honestly didn't think you were this weak in character, all differences of opinion aside.  You made a statement where a commercial member approached a lady prior to reaching the age of consent.  Do you not see the damage of such a statement?  You occasionally appear to have the ability to apply logic where it suits your agenda.
You hid behind your woman, your son, the PM system and now your nationality.  This for me, and IMHO, based on the range of nationalities who have posted thus far, has nothing to do with being American.  It has everything to do with a silly unsubstantiated post.

You made an error.  Are you a mouse or a man?  Time to man up.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: andrewfi on May 03, 2012, 08:54:05 AM
Welder, age of consent is a moveable feast. In most of Europe, for example, it is 16 but in Spain is is 13. In the US it is between 16 and 18.
In the end it is a number. There is no magic that happens on a given date that changes a person's mind or body.

Now, I may agree with you about whether a thing is right or not but the chances are that the folk in question were not acting in any manner illegally in the place time and context in which they found themselves. The issue is much more likely to be about power and control than right/wrong, legal/illegal and that is an issue that we are too far divorced from. The woman's family were, it'd seem, OK with how things went and they were likley best placed to support their child in whatever manner they saw as being best.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Brasscasing on May 03, 2012, 10:41:15 AM
Brass,

7039 postings and your status is looking...then you want to tell me about my girlfriend?

But this one was not removed...from you? Maybe this forum should be renamed Why Men from Canada dislike Americans?


Your posts are becoming increasingly delusional in nature and harder to answer in any meaningful way.

However, if you believe the premise of my messages to you are based in wanting to tell you about your girlfriend or dislike for Americans then it further reinforces my original observation you have a tendency towards creating confrontation/fantasy in your mind where it does not exist.

If not, then you are trolling.

Brass

 

 
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Justmd on May 03, 2012, 09:47:41 PM
PM reply from a member here "People from other countries don't give a damn what YOU think that the norm should be because they are sick to death of the U.S. trying to impose their standards on the rest of the world "

In the future I promise not to impose my standards on the rest of the world, as long as it does not involve a 50 year old man chasing after a 18 year old girl.  tiphat

I leave tomorrow evening to spend 10 days with the best lady and mother I have met.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: dcguyusa on November 15, 2016, 06:49:58 PM
Marriage between two people with 50 year age difference has occurred.  While not widespread, it HAS occurred.

Do not believe everything that you read online (even from degreed or "deranged" professionals).   :king:   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Cobaka on November 28, 2016, 12:10:38 PM
Marriage between two people with 50 year age difference has occurred.  While not widespread, it HAS occurred.

Do not believe everything that you read online (even from degreed or "deranged" professionals).   :king:   :ROFL:

true but it's creepy.

for me, if you think its possible she could pass for your daughter; you need to take a pass.
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Contrarian on November 28, 2016, 12:17:07 PM
PM reply from a member here "People from other countries don't give a damn what YOU think that the norm should be because they are sick to death of the U.S. trying to impose their standards on the rest of the world "

In the future I promise not to impose my standards on the rest of the world, as long as it does not involve a 50 year old man chasing after a 18 year old girl.  tiphat

I leave tomorrow evening to spend 10 days with the best lady and mother I have met.

Okay, so what about a 50 year old man chasing a 19 year old woman, is that okay?   :laugh:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Gipsy on November 28, 2016, 12:34:31 PM
PM reply from a member here "People from other countries don't give a damn what YOU think that the norm should be because they are sick to death of the U.S. trying to impose their standards on the rest of the world "

In the future I promise not to impose my standards on the rest of the world, as long as it does not involve a 50 year old man chasing after a 18 year old girl.  tiphat

I leave tomorrow evening to spend 10 days with the best lady and mother I have met.

Okay, so what about a 50 year old man chasing a 19 year old woman, is that okay?   :laugh:

If the 19yr old woman wants the 50yr old man to catch her, she will slow down, if he ends up bedding her, good boy, well done... :ROFL:
Title: Re: Miracles do happen.
Post by: Contrarian on November 28, 2016, 12:38:15 PM
PM reply from a member here "People from other countries don't give a damn what YOU think that the norm should be because they are sick to death of the U.S. trying to impose their standards on the rest of the world "

In the future I promise not to impose my standards on the rest of the world, as long as it does not involve a 50 year old man chasing after a 18 year old girl.  tiphat

I leave tomorrow evening to spend 10 days with the best lady and mother I have met.

Okay, so what about a 50 year old man chasing a 19 year old woman, is that okay?   :laugh:

If the 19yr old woman wants the 50yr old man to catch her, she will slow down, if he ends up bedding her, good boy, well done... :ROFL:

Yeah bro!  good man.   :bow: :party0031: