Miracles do happen.

[nicknick]

nick, it's not about the age of consent.  Teens are not exactly models of stability and rational thought, and, with a large age discrepancy, coupled with the economic disparities that drive the whole "MOB" business to begin with, manipulation by a much older partner is a big risk.

Halo,

I very much agree with you.

This is the reason why I ended with this point saying how much I agreed with what welder had said.

Before anyone starts accusing me of promoting this sort of thing I would just like to say that, while I am neutral on this subject, I would very much agree with welder:-

... is there really that much difference between an FSU and American girl 18 years of age.  I am no expert but common sense would tell me no.

This is an exceptional case either side of the pond IMO.

[Brasscasing]

"Quote" from website
Peter and Mark met in Odessa Ukraine in December of 2006.  It was their first day in Ukraine together and they connected immediately.

Assuming, Mark and his  business partner Peter, were both in Ukraine to meet ladies, would put Mark and Anna's Marriage less than 6 years

Edit : married in 2007,

Yep

Edit: The dates are correct December 2006 and married Oct 2007. So 5 years, 5 months since they met and 4 years, 6 months (give or take two weeks) since they married. This is consistent.

Brass

[Millaa]

What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example.

Let Mark repeat that when his wife will be 50...
These guys do punish themselves >>> they'll never see their wives old 

[Larry]

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

Many of my countrymen get uptight about A LOT of things.  Three hours ago I was in the grocery store buying a few items and my daughters were with me.  I went to the self-checkout lane, where one scans his purchases himself.  I scanned in some wine and asked one of my daughters to put it in a bag, which was right next to me, while I continued scanning the rest of my purchases.  My daughter is pre-adolescent, obviously well under the legal drinking age of 21.  The store employee monitoring the self-checkout lane brusquely told me "she shouldn't be handling that; you need to put it in the bag.  This, even though it was obviously me who was making the purchase.

It seems to be true that many people here get more uptight about sex than anything else.  When my ex-wife was in high school her school didn't have an annual dance.  The area was a small town in which many residents adhered to a religious fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ.  My ex and a friend began a campaign for the school to have a graduation dance.  The preacher at this church condemned both girls in his Sunday sermon, mentioning them by name.  He apparently said that dancing would lead to sex.

This church apparently forbade its members from dancing.  I once heard a joke: Why does the Church of Christ forbid its members from having sex while standing?  Someone might see them and think they were dancing.

In the last decade there were at least two criminal prosecutions, in two different states, of women who held parties at which they demonstrated vibrators and other sex toys.  These parties were held in friends' homes, very much like Tupperware parties.  The woman who sold the vibrators would show them and take orders.  Her friend, who hosted the party in her home, invited her other female friends and provided hors d'ouerves (sp?) and in return would get some discount on the product being sold.

The attendees were all friends. They voluntarily attended the parties, held at private homes. No sex occurred.  There was no nudity.  But prosecutors brought criminal charges against the woman who sold the vibrator obtained criminal convictions against her.  In one case the conviction was overturned on appeal but in the other case it was not overturned.

A prosecutor's office typically has a vast number of cases to prosecute, so much so that  their assistants who typically handle the cases all have a big stack of files and plea bargain almost all of them because they don't have nearly the time to actually try more than a tiny percentage of cases. But they were happy to take time away from prosecuting violent criminals and devote it to the trial and lengthy appeal of these women who were engaged in the sale of harmless products.

I like many things about my country, but it can be one ****ing uptight place.  And different regions are often uptight about different things.

[patagonie]

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

Many of my countrymen get uptight about A LOT of things.  Three hours ago I was in the grocery store buying a few items and my daughters were with me.  I went to the self-checkout lane, where one scans his purchases himself.  I scanned in some wine and asked one of my daughters to put it in a bag, which was right next to me, while I continued scanning the rest of my purchases.  My daughter is pre-adolescent, obviously well under the legal drinking age of 21.  The store employee monitoring the self-checkout lane brusquely told me "she shouldn't be handling that; you need to put it in the bag.  This, even though it was obviously me who was making the purchase.

It seems to be true that many people here get more uptight about sex than anything else.  When my ex-wife was in high school her school didn't have an annual dance.  The area was a small town in which many residents adhered to a religious fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ.  My ex and a friend began a campaign for the school to have a graduation dance.  The preacher at this church condemned both girls in his Sunday sermon, mentioning them by name.  He apparently said that dancing would lead to sex.

This church apparently forbade its members from dancing.  I once heard a joke: Why does the Church of Christ forbid its members from having sex while standing?  Someone might see them and think they were dancing.

In the last decade there were at least two criminal prosecutions, in two different states, of women who held parties at which they demonstrated vibrators and other sex toys.  These parties were held in friends' homes, very much like Tupperware parties.  The woman who sold the vibrators would show them and take orders.  Her friend, who hosted the party in her home, invited her other female friends and provided hors d'ouerves (sp?) and in return would get some discount on the product being sold.

The attendees were all friends. They voluntarily attended the parties, held at private homes. No sex occurred.  There was no nudity.  But prosecutors brought criminal charges against the woman who sold the vibrator obtained criminal convictions against her.  In one case the conviction was overturned on appeal but in the other case it was not overturned.

A prosecutor's office typically has a vast number of cases to prosecute, so much so that  their assistants who typically handle the cases all have a big stack of files and plea bargain almost all of them because they don't have nearly the time to actually try more than a tiny percentage of cases. But they were happy to take time away from prosecuting violent criminals and devote it to the trial and lengthy appeal of these women who were engaged in the sale of harmless products.

I like many things about my country, but it can be one ****ing uptight place.  And different regions are often uptight about different things.

.

I would say that what you wrote is unbelievable for an european. Unfortunately in  30 years or 40 we will have such sort of problem also in Europe. Things are slowly use this way.

[d672]

There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.

 It means I have no use for someone who goes out SPECIFICALLY to look for girls 30+ years younger than themselves.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

 You didn't talk about coincidentally meeting a girl this young who attracted you, you talked about TARGETING these girls because girls their age group are who attracted you. Mark himself explained that their situation was very unusual. He wasn't looking for a wife that young and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife. The "experts" who's words you are trying to dismiss say the same thing.

 Your statements are more of a predator than a man who is looking for a loving wife and it makes me sick.

First of all, it seems to me that you discredit me by saying:

" No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling."

You may disagree with me and that's ok, but what you've said is insulting.

Second: I'm not looking for big age gap. I would not consider to contact girl who is 20 years younger, and definitely not 25 years younger.

I would't write what I wrote before because after all the "experts" right. I would be happy to have woman around 30 something y.o.
I've red Mark's posts after my post. I can change my opinion or be more accurate. I was impressed by that at first, but I don't aspire to look for such an age gap.

But anyway it was your attitude towards me that pissed me off. Not the content.
   

 I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem.

 Take another look at what you did here. Try to see this from my point of view. You started this thread using Marks case as justification for writing to girls about 18-20 years old. Then if you look at your post I quoted you state that this is the age group you are attracted to. You never mentioned older women attracting you, just the young ones. I've read your previous threads about your experiences with women who were in their 30's and it didn't go well for you. You even stated that you are giving up on your FSU search and looking for someone at home. Then you post this thread showing interest in young FSU girls and the first thing I think  is WHY??? Is he trying another age group because he failed with the 30 year olds? Is he picking young girls who hardly have any life experience because they are more impressionable than older girls? That is the part that really turned my stomach and made me write what I did. If you think I'm an asshole for that then I guess I am. 

 I see in your last post you are talking exact opposite of how you started this thread. That you read what Mark said about the situation and agree with the experts now and would never consider such a big age difference. That eases my concerns about you a bit but I still can't help but wonder why you would even start a thread like this looking into the viability of writing such young girls in the first place.      

 

 

 

   

[Muzh_1]

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

Many of my countrymen get uptight about A LOT of things.  Three hours ago I was in the grocery store buying a few items and my daughters were with me.  I went to the self-checkout lane, where one scans his purchases himself.  I scanned in some wine and asked one of my daughters to put it in a bag, which was right next to me, while I continued scanning the rest of my purchases.  My daughter is pre-adolescent, obviously well under the legal drinking age of 21.  The store employee monitoring the self-checkout lane brusquely told me "she shouldn't be handling that; you need to put it in the bag.  This, even though it was obviously me who was making the purchase.

It seems to be true that many people here get more uptight about sex than anything else.  When my ex-wife was in high school her school didn't have an annual dance.  The area was a small town in which many residents adhered to a religious fundamentalist church, the Church of Christ.  My ex and a friend began a campaign for the school to have a graduation dance.  The preacher at this church condemned both girls in his Sunday sermon, mentioning them by name.  He apparently said that dancing would lead to sex.

This church apparently forbade its members from dancing.  I once heard a joke: Why does the Church of Christ forbid its members from having sex while standing?  Someone might see them and think they were dancing.

In the last decade there were at least two criminal prosecutions, in two different states, of women who held parties at which they demonstrated vibrators and other sex toys.  These parties were held in friends' homes, very much like Tupperware parties.  The woman who sold the vibrators would show them and take orders.  Her friend, who hosted the party in her home, invited her other female friends and provided hors d'ouerves (sp?) and in return would get some discount on the product being sold.

The attendees were all friends. They voluntarily attended the parties, held at private homes. No sex occurred.  There was no nudity.  But prosecutors brought criminal charges against the woman who sold the vibrator obtained criminal convictions against her.  In one case the conviction was overturned on appeal but in the other case it was not overturned.

A prosecutor's office typically has a vast number of cases to prosecute, so much so that  their assistants who typically handle the cases all have a big stack of files and plea bargain almost all of them because they don't have nearly the time to actually try more than a tiny percentage of cases. But they were happy to take time away from prosecuting violent criminals and devote it to the trial and lengthy appeal of these women who were engaged in the sale of harmless products.

I like many things about my country, but it can be one ****ing uptight place.  And different regions are often uptight about different things.

Don't worry Larry. At the rate the Supreme Court is ruling, this will be a reality very soon.

[shakespear]

I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem. 

Mother Nature created the male of our species to be attracted to women of fertile childbearing age.  To deny such an attraction exists in every man is foolhearty.  It's why my wife doesn't get angry when I happen to look when a pretty young girl walks by me on the street.

However most men of a certain age have the maturity and sound judgement NOT to act on those natural impulses, or to channel them in a more acceptable manner or outlet.   

[Halo]

What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example.

Let Mark repeat that when his wife will be 50...
These guys do punish themselves >>> they'll never see their wives old 

 

Oops, he posted it here too.


http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=16720.msg261149#msg261149

[Millaa]

What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example.

Let Mark repeat that when his wife will be 50...
These guys do punish themselves >>> they'll never see their wives old 

Oops, he posted it here too.
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=16720.msg261149#msg261149

Forgot another part of phrase >>> she'll never see him young 

[2tallbill]

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

In the USA first the kids go to grammar school, then High School,
then a college or university.

In the USA 18 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent
at age 18 keeps the teachers from F#cking the students in High
school. The bar has to be somewhere so in the USA it's been set
at 18.

[TomT]

In the USA 18 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent
at age 18 keeps the teachers from F#cking the students in High
school. The bar has to be somewhere so in the USA it's been set
at 18.

That law doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.

[Larry]

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?

In the USA first the kids go to grammar school, then High School,
then a college or university.

In the USA 18 is the age of consent. Having the age of consent
at age 18 keeps the teachers from F#cking the students in High
school. The bar has to be somewhere so in the USA it's been set
at 18.

Bill, I think you're incorrect here.  The age of consent is set by state law, therefore every state sets its own age of consent.  While I have not researched this, one of my law school classmates had to do a project and chose to research the age of consent in a number of states.  In many states the age was, as NickNick found, 16.  This is dated information, but I doubt many states have changed their laws in the last few decades.

[Halo]

Bill live in California, I believe, where the age of consent is 18.   But, yes, it varies from 16 to 18, depending on the state.

[Justmd]

"Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen.

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum."

Words from the first page of this TR...not mine but his.

Seems a backlash is brewing on this forum, I have received 11 PM's since last evening and all have grown tired of the same group of guys who post here and on other forums...so these men are on multiple forums of the same subject...interesting.

[Halo]

Not sure who all those men are, but the ones on this thread who post on the other forum are Ade, Muzh, patagonie, and Rasputin.  BC posts on both forums as well (though he hasn't posted on this thread).

The others posting here make occasional appearances, but post far more here, or don't post at the other forum at all.

[Justmd]

Not sure who all those men are, but the ones on this thread who post on the other forum are Ade, Muzh, patagonie, and Rasputin.  BC posts on both forums as well (though he hasn't posted on this thread).

The others posting here make occasional appearances, but post far more here, or don't post at the other forum at all.

Many names where given up and very happy to see that most agree with me as a parent.

[Halo]

Many names where given up

I wouldn't put too much stock in the opinions of those who, even on a largely anonymous internet forum, don't have the cojones to post their opinions openly.

[Justmd]

Many names where given up

I wouldn't put too much stock in the opinions of those who, even on a largely anonymous internet forum, don't have the cojones to post their opinions openly.

I agree but find it amusing.

[Konfushus]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the opinions of those who do have the cojones to post their opinions openly either. 

[Halo]

   That's true too.

[Konfushus]

Does it really matter if this girl was a few months above or below the 18 year mark when they first met? Either way she was damn young for a guy in his 40s. I say this and I have a significant age difference with my wife (17 years).

The 'age is just a number' routine is garbage. Age is the selling point for these tours. Just look at the tour photos and videos. If it was insignificant, it wouldn't even be brought up as an issue. When I see a tour full of Ukrainian women in their 40s, then we'll talk about 'age is just a number'.

[Halo]

You're on a roll.   

Very true again.

However, don't you think once a woman is over 30, it doesn't matter as much?  She has life experiences, and usually knows who she is.

I've seen couples here (both partners Canadian) with 25 year age differences who are very happy and seemingly suited to one another.  In those cases, I would say age is just a number.  But, in all the cases, the women were 35 or older when they married, all had established careers, and all married very dynamic men.

[welder]

Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen.

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum.

Words from the first page of this TR...not mine but his.

Seems a backlash is brewing on this forum, I have received 11 PM's since last evening and all have grown tired of the same group of guys who post here and on other forums...so these men are on multiple forums of the same subject...interesting.

Justmd, sorry but I don't get your point.  No sarcasm, maybe I just missed something, but why were you quoting Chelseaboy. 

[chelseaboy]

Yes,i was just wondering about that.

FWIW,i do make postings on the other forum sometimes,if that has any significance.

I am neutral on large age-gap relationships.For the small minority they work,for the large majority they don't.
I would say that any man travelling to the FSU with the sole intention of finding a wife at least 20 years younger than him,is living a fantasy and leaving himself open to pro-daters and scammers.
However,if any man should meet someone who he gets on very well with,despite such an age gap,as Mark has,then i don't see the problem.

Those certain people that are trying to make a problem out of Mark marrying Anna,because of her age,and the large age-gap,need to get off their soap-box and maybe ask Anna if SHE is happy.
Do those same people think she should have married a local guy around her own age instead ?
From what i understand,unless it's all hype,if she had done,there is a pretty good chance her young Ukrainian husband would now be chasing other young women.

Seems to me she made a good choice in Mark.