Miracles do happen.

[NS1]

Justmd, has higher morals and standards then  most here.
Seems he knows how and what to do with a daughter as well.
Really just a much better person.

[Ade]

Hey, guys!

Thanks for the chance to enter into this conversation. 

My story is an exception.  I was not looking for a big age difference.  Anna didn't want to tell me her age for the first two months we were dating because she thought it would scare me off.  She would have been right.  I thought she was around 26 based on her maturity and humor.  She thought I was around 35 based on my personal energy.  By the time I found out what her age was, and recovered from the shock, I realized that I was already in love with her.  This was my half. 

Mark, I just took a browse around your website and looked over the photos from your March 2012 tour. I must say that besides the odd 40-something, most of the women in the "social" look like they were considerably younger than all the men, 30 or 40 years in some cases at a rough estimate. Perhaps the photos weren't all that representative but sticking a bunch of 50 years olds in among 20-somethings certainly looks like there's some attempt at engineering big age gap relationships going on? 

[Vinnvinny]

Mark, I just took a browse around your website and looked over the photos from your March 2012 tour.......

I found Mark's red shirt to be much more alarming. 

[Tom Cat]

Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.

It's folly to hide behind your girl and post derogatory comments by proxy in her name (if even true). If you open that door it can get messy if a member responds in kind.

Still waiting on that link...

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.

Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass

If you read Reply#37- point two, the age question of Anna at the time, will be answered.
Justmd, need to again check  the facts

[Ade]

Mark, I just took a browse around your website and looked over the photos from your March 2012 tour.......

I found Mark's red shirt to be much more alarming. 

I assumed it was the really poor camera over saturating the colours.

One of the guys wrote a blog of the tour here; http://pryvet.wordpress.com/ which I've only read the first two entries of. This guy says he agrees with the blog of this other guy; http://www.westernwomensuck.com/2011/09/03/make-me-some-eggs/. The url should tell you most of what you need to know about this misogynistic little pillock.

I'm curious if this (the woman referenced in "womensuck.com" above) is what men here mean when they talk about "fat, unreasonable, fem-nazi" types? Because I'll be honest, even though she's overweight and not my type, I don't think she's ugly and I don't think her preferences in men according to her dating profile is particularly demanding, I would even say she just wants a normal guy. So what's with all this guy's hate and angst? It reminds me of a lot of what I read from some men here.

[andrewfi]

http://pryvet.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/ted/ reminded me of a poster here. Except that we know the poster here isn't a sex tourist.

[sharonhaber00]

There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.

 It means I have no use for someone who goes out SPECIFICALLY to look for girls 30+ years younger than themselves.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

 You didn't talk about coincidentally meeting a girl this young who attracted you, you talked about TARGETING these girls because girls their age group are who attracted you. Mark himself explained that their situation was very unusual. He wasn't looking for a wife that young and recommends not to try to go out looking for the same age difference that he has with his wife. The "experts" who's words you are trying to dismiss say the same thing.

 Your statements are more of a predator than a man who is looking for a loving wife and it makes me sick.

First of all, it seems to me that you discredit me by saying:

" No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling."

You may disagree with me and that's ok, but what you've said is insulting.

Second: I'm not looking for big age gap. I would not consider to contact girl who is 20 years younger, and definitely not 25 years younger.

I would't write what I wrote before because after all the "experts" right. I would be happy to have woman around 30 something y.o.
I've red Mark's posts after my post. I can change my opinion or be more accurate. I was impressed by that at first, but I don't aspire to look for such an age gap.

But anyway it was your attitude towards me that pissed me off. Not the content.
   

 

[nicknick]

Well...she just called me and we are talking about this...stupid men is all she would say.

It's folly to hide behind your girl and post derogatory comments by proxy in her name (if even true). If you open that door it can get messy if a member responds in kind.

Still waiting on that link...

I make no excuses on being a hard ass on certain subjects, fact is I do not abide by with a man promoting the fact his wife was 17 when they first meet, yes it was mentioned here so clearly!! and find it strange he has not commented back to clarify this...So now I ask him to do so.

Link me to the quote/message/post where "it was mentioned here so clearly".

Brass

If you read Reply#37- point two, the age question of Anna at the time, will be answered.
Justmd, need to again check  the facts

I'll be frank here and say quite openly that justmd's posts do annoy me and, if he is anything like this in real life, then he really wouldn't be the sort of person I would choose as a friend.

Having said that however, I can perhaps understand why he thinks this about the age difference.  Although it is certainly not as clearly stated as he says and he may have missed something from his ''speed reading''.

It is in reply 37, a combination of the title and point one:-

AGE GAP COMMENTARY FROM A GUY WITH A 25-YEAR AGE DIFFERENCE WITH HIS UKRAINIAN WIFE OF FIVE YEARS
by Mark Davis


POINT ONE: I did not go looking for a big age gap. When we met I thought she was about 26 based on her maturity and humor.  That would have made it a 16 year gap and I felt fine about that. 

Taking point 1, age 26 meaning a 16 year age gap would mean that he was 42 at the time 26 + 16 = 42

He then says in the title that there is actually a 25 year age gap, so she must have been 17 when they met 42 - 25 = 17


However, I would suggest that things are complicated by what he says in point 2:-

POINT TWO: Anna DID go looking for an age gap. She was convinced that guys in their 20's were all cheaters because they were all sewing their wild oats.  She concluded that a marriage-minded guy would have to be over 30 - and she was dating guys in that age range in Ukraine when she was 18. It was a strategy on her part.

Where he says that she was dating various Ukrainian guys when she was 18.

I would suggest that this implies one of two things:-

1. The age gap is actually less than 25 years and she was older than 18 when they met.

2. They first met when she was 17 but did not actually get together until she was older, after she had been dating these other Ukrainian guys when she was 18.


It's impossible to tell from what Mark has written what the actual situation was.

[Brasscasing]

Nicknick and TomCat,

I think what we're dealing with here is Mark not realizing that accuracy counts when conveying information to members on a forum such as ours. In otherwords, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Let's just get right to it and link an interview dated Jan of this year and listen to Anna explain the timeline in her own words...

 

I'll convey this though, Mark should be aware that timelines do become important in significant age gap marriages especially when ones bride is/was Anna's age. He runs an agency. He is a service provider. There are those that would seek to discredit him or misconstrue what he's written/posted/talked of and those that could genuinely and in good conscience arrive at a misunderstanding if questioning such a timeline. As an SP he needs to ensure that ambiguous language regarding himself, his business and his own marriage is kept to a minimum.

When Mark first arrived I did what I normally do with commercial members and conducted an internet search to see what's what and did raise an eyebrow at one or two minor variations (based on several sources-internet vids, book review(s), converstaion on forums etc.) of dates and ages. However, I've come to the conclusion based on their individual webcasts, youtube vids, nationally broadcast interviews and written word that they are consistant and appear truthful when they relate the history of how they met and how old they were/are.

I was aware of the post you've both cited and was looking to see if our self described Mr. HardA$$ was even cognizant and capable of articulating what exactly he was accusing Mark of and inviting him to clarify besides posting beligerent comments.

 Good comments, you guys.

Brass

[TomT]

Ever heard old stupids become wise and moderate?

I can't say that I have. The usual trend is for stupids who are unwise, inflexible and intolerant in their middle age to become much worse when they get old.

[welder]

Where he says that she was dating various Ukrainian guys when she was 18.

I would suggest that this implies one of two things:-

1. The age gap is actually less than 25 years and she was older than 18 when they met.

2. They first met when she was 17 but did not actually get together until she was older, after she had been dating these other Ukrainian guys when she was 18.


It's impossible to tell from what Mark has written what the actual situation was.

Nicknick I looked back at the threads and checked out Mark's site.  It certainly doesn't present itself as clear.  On one of the videos on the site Anna is presented as 20 and Mark 45.  But when you couple that with their photo on the site they list themselves as 23 and 49 respectively.  So it would appear they can be between 25 and 26 years based on when their birthdays fall.
The video also says they had a long distance relation for one year before she arrived in America so that put their time together as a couple to a minimum of 6 years.

So 42-25 =17, 23-6=17.

As Tom Cat posted Mark posted Anna was dating Ukrainian men when she was 18. 

The math appears a little inconsistent.

I will say that from what I seen on the videos Mark looks his age IMHO.  He is hardly exceptional in appearance or stature now or five years ago.  Anna does present herself as genuine.  They do look happy together.

It is a hot topic when you start looking at teens hooking up with guys in their forties.  Look no further than the school teacher in the US who has been charged in recent weeks.

Giving Mark the benefit of the doubt that Anna was 18, is there really that much difference between an FSU and American girl 18 years of age.  I am no expert but common sense would tell me no.

This is an exceptional case either side of the pond IMO.

[welder]

Sorry Brass I was putting my post together and entertaining my little guy.  Of course he came first so it took me way too long.  I'll check out the link you posted.

Good post

[Brasscasing]

Sorry Brass I was putting my post together and entertaining my little guy.  Of course he came first so it took me way too long.  I'll check out the link you posted.

Good post

No worries, bud. Good point on birthdates.

Brass

[Halo]

I don't find justmd annoying.

Justmd took the 17 year old from my post, which was a question, rather than a statement.  Mark posted Anna is 23, and they've been together 6 years.  23-6-17, at least, by my math. 

He is hardly exceptional in appearance or stature now or five years ago.

What?  At the other forum, he has posted how 50 year old men always look so much better than 50 year old women, and he (by implication) is the prime example.

[Halo]

One of the guys wrote a blog of the tour here; http://pryvet.wordpress.com/ which I've only read the first two entries of. This guy says he agrees with the blog of this other guy; http://www.westernwomensuck.com/2011/09/03/make-me-some-eggs/. The url should tell you most of what you need to know about this misogynistic little pillock.

I'm curious if this (the woman referenced in "womensuck.com" above) is what men here mean when they talk about "fat, unreasonable, fem-nazi" types? Because I'll be honest, even though she's overweight and not my type, I don't think she's ugly and I don't think her preferences in men according to her dating profile is particularly demanding, I would even say she just wants a normal guy. So what's with all this guy's hate and angst? It reminds me of a lot of what I read from some men here.

I suspect a lot of men who go on tours are like this (i.e. misogynists who don't relate well to women).  Men who believe in "fem-nazis" = men who don't like women to be their equals.

[Brasscasing]

Justmd took the 17 year old from my post, which was a question, rather than a statement.  Mark posted Anna is 23, and they've been together 6 years.  23-6-17, at least, by my math. 

Halo, I can't find any statement (on this forum at least) by Mark where he mentions 6 years. Has he mentioned this elswhere (or maybe it's here infront of my nose somewhere and I need new reading glasses)? 

Brass

[Halo]

Perhaps it was in his link, can't recall.  But it did stick out to me - 23 years old, married 6 years.  It is why I asked.

[Brasscasing]

Perhaps it was in his link, can't recall.  But it did stick out to me - 23 years old, married 6 years.  It is why I asked.

OK. Yeah, as I mentioned above, while going through a fair bit of material, I also noted one or two (what I consider to be) minor inconsistencies. 6 years instead of 5 years would have stood out for me as well, I think but it's possible it might be out there somewhere.

Have you looked at the vid I linked (if so, what are your thoughts)?

Brass

[Halo]

Without knowing when the video was made and how long they were married (DOB, date of marriage, which is none of my business, but then again, he does use his marriage as part of his marketing), it doesn't clarify anything for me.

Frankly, I view Mark as just another commercial member, though granted, one who is far more polite and honest than the commercial members who post here, but still, a commercial member, and I read his posts with that in mind.

[Tom Cat]

"Quote" from website
Peter and Mark met in Odessa Ukraine in December of 2006.  It was their first day in Ukraine together and they connected immediately.

Assuming, Mark and his  business partner Peter, were both in Ukraine to meet ladies, would put Mark and Anna's Marriage less than 6 years

Edit : married in 2007,
 

[Brasscasing]

Without knowing when the video was made and how long they were married, it doesn't clarify anything for me.

Anna does state her age (23) and the how long they've been married and when they met (4 and 5 years respectively), though. This coupled with her mentioning after she turned 18 she attended the meet and greet where she met Mark would suggest she was already 18 yoa, no?

Brass

[nicknick]

... those that could genuinely and in good conscience arrive at a misunderstanding if questioning such a timeline.

... they are consistant and appear truthful when they relate the history of how they met and how old they were/are.

...  was looking to see if our self described Mr. HardA$$ was even cognizant and capable of articulating what exactly he was accusing Mark of

Brass

Giving Mark the benefit of the doubt that Anna was 18.

I've just realised that what I wrote may have been taken as some sort of condemnation of Mark's behaviour - it certainly wasn't intended as such. 

As Mendy said recently, in a different thread on a different subject, I remain neutral on the issue.

However, I have noticed, both here and on another site, that many Americans get really uptight when there is any hint of anything happening with a partner under the age of 18.

As a result of this I just assumed that the age of consent in the USA was 18.

However, not being American, I didn't really know for sure so turned to Wikipedia.  Now, I know that wikipedia does have a lot of faults, but I guessed that on something as basic as this it is likely to be accurate.

According to wikipedia, the age of consent in the large majority of US states is actually 16.

So, just a question to all the Americans on this site, why does everyone get so uptight about the age of 18 rather than the age of 16?


Before anyone starts accusing me of promoting this sort of thing I would just like to say that, while I am neutral on this subject, I would very much agree with welder:-

... is there really that much difference between an FSU and American girl 18 years of age.  I am no expert but common sense would tell me no.

This is an exceptional case either side of the pond IMO.

[Brasscasing]

Yep, I looked at the age of consent in California and Ukraine as well. Ukraine has changed from 17 to 18 in the last few years making it equal for both male and female.

I'll see if I can relocate the link it was interesting reading....

edit:

http://www.Kievpost.com/news/nation/detail/124620/

I can't seem to find a date year on this page but I think it's been in the last few years...

Brass

[Halo]

Missed that, Brass.

nick, it's not about the age of consent.  Teens are not exactly models of stability and rational thought, and, with a large age discrepancy, coupled with the economic disparities that drive the whole "MOB" business to begin with, manipulation by a much older partner is a big risk.

[Tom Cat]

Mark, met Anna in December 2006