Miracles do happen.

[Mark Davis]

4 kids, 2 ex-wives... what a "catch"!.. 

Wild Orchid: Yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious - I had four kids (three of them older than my Ukrainian wife) and two ex-wives.  I could tell you more about how she brilliantly worked all of these relationships, but that's for another day.  But, yes, those were shocks to her as she learned about those on our second date.

Mark & Anna Davis
EuropeanDreamConnections.com

This guy is using this forum to promote his business venture? why is it even a topic?

Justmd, yes, I'm a commercial member - I was invited to come back here by Shakespear, because of this thread.  This thread was started by sharing a link to a video of my wife telling her story. 

I think I can both offer good advice and stay away from soliciting at the same time.  Everything I do here is free.  I don't think my being a commercial member means that my experience is without value.  We're seeing a lot of success and I'm offering help to men who are going on their own, with other agencies, or with mine at no cost.  The goal is the same; better experiences for men who go and more successful couples.

My experience is my own and my advice will always be slanted toward helping newbies.  I also respect where others are coming from who are more comfortable with other ways to meet and marry overseas.

But I totally understand where you're coming from in wanting to discount the opinion of a commercial member. 

[Mark Davis]

Hope you're not having too many problems with those strong willed Ukrainian girls scaring too many of them away!   

 As for the other post, I could understand now why you said what you did, and commend you for trying to help the guy out by offering to contact her for him to see if she was legit.   

d672:

First, thanks for the good word.  I'll let you know if he contacts me and we do the research for him. 

I had to laugh at your first comment about the 'strong-willed' Ukrainian girls scaring the guys away - you have no idea how true that is!  I try to warn them and put it as nicely as I can.  We talk about how they are "authentic" and are comfortable talking about nearly any subject and will give them a straight answer.  They're still never ready for it.  It's just way too foreign for Western guys.  But, give them a few days and suddenly it's the greatest characteristic!  You should come some time just to observe.  The roller coaster of emotions is better than any movie and twice the fun!

[Mark Davis]

The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.

Tom, you are right on the money.  This is where a really experienced guy could chart his own course, write letters, Skype, and set up his trip for himself successfully.  But even among experienced men, there are few who know how to write to foreign women without coming across too eager, egotistical, or eccentric. 

[d672]

 

I had to laugh at your first comment about the 'strong-willed' Ukrainian girls scaring the guys away - you have no idea how true that is!  I try to warn them and put it as nicely as I can.  We talk about how they are "authentic" and are comfortable talking about nearly any subject and will give them a straight answer.  They're still never ready for it.  It's just way too foreign for Western guys.  But, give them a few days and suddenly it's the greatest characteristic!  You should come some time just to observe.  The roller coaster of emotions is better than any movie and twice the fun!

 That was the FIRST thing I thought when you described the type of guys who usually used your service... tagging along just to see how they'd react probably would be a blast!   

 Recently my wife translated for a member here who went to her city to meet a girl he was interested in. Before he left I gave him a heads up about how strong willed these girls were and even teased him that between his girl and my wife he probably wouldn't have any say in what he was going to do while he was there. He laughed about that and said he was sure he could take care of himself.

  One day while he was there I skyped him and asked him how things were going. He said well... last night we planned we would rent some quads and go riding this morning. So I woke up and started getting ready for that. Your wife showed up and the girls got together and started chattering in Ukrainian for about 15 minutes. Then your wife came up to me and said, ok, we changed our minds, we're going to the museum instead.

 I started laughing and asked him what he did next. He said, I already learned that I could never win an arguement with two Ukrainian women so I just went to the bedroom and started changing into different clothes to go to the museum in!      

[2tallbill]

The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.

Tom, you are right on the money.  This is where a really experienced guy could chart his own course, write letters, Skype, and set up his trip for himself successfully.  But even among experienced men, there are few who know how to write to foreign women without coming across too eager, egotistical, or eccentric.

There are surely a number of guys who are pretty good at written communication but are
fairly shy in person especially in a group setting.

Elena of Elena's models said (in Russian advice for women in her agency)
"Men who come to marriage agencies, are usually shy and do not believe
that intelligent, educated and attractive woman would be interested in them."
[note: translation mine, not professional]

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

[TomT]

If people understand their strengths/weaknesses and have a bit of intelligence, they can develop strategies to market themselves favorably. For example, young guys (who might be a bit weird) could do very well on the free sites because the search engine is their friend. Old fossils, who have thick skins and who interact well with others would be in their element on (Russian) women's forums. Attractive men who are personable would be best suited for face-to-face meetings in major FSU cities (but not the capitals unless they have thick wallets). Wealthy men will do well anywhere and Sterlin should stay home.

[mendeleyev]

Wealthy men will do well anywhere and Sterlin should stay home.

   Now that was classic.   

[Justmd]

"I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant."

Shy is not a word that could ever be used to describe me. I meet a lady who impressed me and I went to her as soon I was able to show that she was special and rare to me, in 2 weeks I will continue to show her.

[2tallbill]

If people understand their strengths/weaknesses and have a bit of intelligence, they can develop strategies to market themselves favorably. For example, young guys (who might be a bit weird) could do very well on the free sites because the search engine is their friend. Old fossils, who have thick skins and who interact well with others would be in their element on (Russian) women's forums. Attractive men who are personable would be best suited for face-to-face meetings in major FSU cities (but not the capitals unless they have thick wallets). Wealthy men will do well anywhere and Sterlin should stay home.

excellent analysis

[Mark Davis]

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

2tallbill:

I love that you did this poll.  By the way, one of my responses was that I wish I could be 2tallbill! Awesome humor.

Yes, I agree with the quote from Elena's Models and what was said; a lot of the men looking at International Dating solutions seems to have some shyness as a factor in their decision to look overseas.  Why?  They believe what they have heard: that they will be accepted for who they are overseas.

I believe there are three kinds of men in the world: Adventurers, Achievers, and Altruists. The first two are self-explanatory.  The last one covers about half of the men though.  I came up with this label instead of "amiables and analyticals" because their greatest asset is that they are altruistic - giving in nature - and true to themselves.  These guys hate the bar scene and pickup artists because they feel they would have to become something they are not in order to win.  They can't compete with bullies and braggarts (their perception) and refuse to become a 'bad boy' in order to attract a female.

So, my observation is this: altruistic personality types are tired of being told that they are not desirable in Western society to the women - and they don't know what they can do to win.  They don't know how they are supposed to behave.  They don't know what they are supposed to say.  So they say little and refrain from interactions so they are not embarrassed and rejected - again. 

What I do with a guy like this may seem cruel to some, but I have to get his hopes up.  We can manifest positive expectations and we can attract rejection.  The Law of Attraction has never been more real - but now they have a reason to believe things could be different.  I have to get him expecting that women will give him the time of day and be interested in him for who he is.  I know I'm going to get a lot of tomatoes thrown at me for trying to create hope when there are so many other bad stories, but it has to start there - or why would anyone want to try.  I also would not do it if I could not deliver.

Once he is in UKraine he has to become comfortable with his surroundings.  He's in a new country and about to be in the presence of women more beautiful than any he's been around before.  We'll start with a comfortable dinner that has no expectations, but helps him to acclimate.  My wife will had pick ladies to invite that we feel would be comfortable for him and we just have a classic Ukrainian dinner.  I tell him to become fascinated with everything around him as a way to prompt conversation (if needed).  Comment on the food.  Ask about the city.  The girls always do their part to be fascinated with the men.  Round one - "Ukraine is not so bad and it was actually nice to be around beautiful women" they say to themselves.

Next, they get a lifeline - their translator.  They spend lunch with just that person the next day so the two of them become acquainted and she gets a better idea of how to help him win.  She is not on the clock but paid for the whole week and trained to be his assistant as well as translator for the week. 

There are four other things I'd do to help him, not only come out of his shell but get really excited with this new experience; but you get the idea.  Acclimate - lifeline - date.  The formula can be applied to many systems, not just mine.

Thanks for asking.  :-)

[patagonie]

The less literate that a man is, the more adventageous that it is for him to meet face-to-face. If a man writes eloquently, he can usually get away with email correspondence for a month or two. Unfortunately, quality writing is not the norm.

Tom, you are right on the money.  This is where a really experienced guy could chart his own course, write letters, Skype, and set up his trip for himself successfully.  But even among experienced men, there are few who know how to write to foreign women without coming across too eager, egotistical, or eccentric.

Correct, i suffered many crashes in writing and being literate. You need to understand how does it works, and the path to use is narrow.

[Muzh_1]

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

Bill, I went to that thread and voted. Also left you the following comment:

You should consider changing this: I give speeches in front of hundreds on a regular basis about my personal life to this I have given speeches in front of hundreds on on more than one occasion.

This would be a better indicator if you really want to judge shyness. I would have voted for the change since I've been doing this for around 30 years.

[2tallbill]

I put together a poll and a significant percentage of men here at RUA seem
to be fairly pretty shy. I think the number of men who are shy and pursue
FSUW is probably significant.

Shyness poll   
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15350.0

I wonder what impressions Mark has regarding this and what he does to
help out the shy guys.

Bill, I went to that thread and voted. Also left you the following comment:

You should consider changing this: I give speeches in front of hundreds on a regular basis about my personal life to this I have given speeches in front of hundreds on on more than one occasion.

This would be a better indicator if you really want to judge shyness. I would have voted for the change since I've been doing this for around 30 years.

I am no longer a mod and can't change the poll questions. I guess I can ask one of the
mods.

Bill

[2tallbill]

I love that you did this poll.  By the way, one of my responses was that I wish I could be 2tallbill! Awesome humor.

There are four other things I'd do to help him, not only come out of his shell but get really excited with this new experience; but you get the idea.  Acclimate - lifeline - date.  The formula can be applied to many systems, not just mine.

Thanks for asking.  :-)

I agree with your ideas for shy guys, build them up a bit and then provide
plenty of support and backup.

I watched one of your web seminars and found it to be pretty good. I think
that you should put one together about some of the various myths that
exist out there. (I put together a poll as well) I am sure that you have heard
of all kinds of myths about FSUW both positive and negative and probably
spend quite a bit of time on mythology education.

http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=8883.0

[Justmd]

I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

[2tallbill]

I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

[Justmd]

I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

I would lean more towards building a relationship with her with letters,phone calls,sharing pictures and doing Skype video calls than having a wingman or guide.

She will be impressed if the shy man is being bold.

[AvHdB]

I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

I would lean more towards building a relationship with her with letters,phone calls,sharing pictures and doing Skype video calls than having a wingman or guide.

She will be impressed if the shy man is being bold.

If he is shy he might only stay at the letter writing stage.

I see the winger as an asset shy or not. If the Wingman or Wingwoman (winger) is good they will be able to read better the woman than you. If you have to wonder what did she mean really this is what you are paying for. Perhaps you might forgive some of her behavior to culture but your winger might say no this person is not what you assume or think she is.

In fact this is about the same as a taking a new girl friend to meet your friends and acquaintances and seeing there reactions and hearing there feelings.

[Mark Davis]

I'm hosting the Topic on my Webinar tomorrow night . . . FYI

http://archive.aweber.com/europeandream/BWEl./h/Age_Differences_What_do.htm

[shakespear]

Mark:

You might have overlooked this:
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=16720.msg261263#msg261263

If you have time, I'd be interested in your thoughts on these two topics.

[Justmd]

I wonder how a shy man would fare going to a foreign country alone and having to meet and impress a woman in such a compressed time? The question should be asked if he did not have success in his own country why would he do well in a foreign environment.

I think the shy guy would do better with a guide / wingman
or really building the relationship with letters, phone calls and
skype before visiting or with a group with a translator / helper
like Mark Davis was talking about.

I would lean more towards building a relationship with her with letters,phone calls,sharing pictures and doing Skype video calls than having a wingman or guide.

She will be impressed if the shy man is being bold.

If he is shy he might only stay at the letter writing stage.

I see the winger as an asset shy or not. If the Wingman or Wingwoman (winger) is good they will be able to read better the woman than you. If you have to wonder what did she mean really this is what you are paying for. Perhaps you might forgive some of her behavior to culture but your winger might say no this person is not what you assume or think she is.

In fact this is about the same as a taking a new girl friend to meet your friends and acquaintances and seeing there reactions and hearing there feelings.

To each his own and what ever works, I preferred to stay away from an agency,guides or translators.If a man is not able to read a woman and needs another man/woman to tell him what she is thinking then maybe he should stay home?   

[Mark Davis]

That's my opinion on the whole thing. Those are my best suggestions.  Anything can work for the right types of circumstances and people (hey, I did meet my wife at a big box social).  It is just my experience that this process gives you the best odds for success. 

Mark very interesting and informative read. 

I agree with your assessment than most pre-travel communications is time wasted.  I have a couple of questions.

If you are seeking a younger bride, how important is income and financial security in the process?  I know that all women seek some level of financial security when they marry but is it more important when a wide-age courtship is involved.  Without being too specific, I would guess that your income, like mine is in the 2% targeting by our President.  How much did this factor come into play during your courtship.  Is there a minimum level of income or financial assets needed to realistically pursue a bride from the FSU?

Sex and intimacy during courtship.  I'm one of the leading proponents of the "5 Date Sex Rule" when courting women from the FSU.  No sex by the fifth date and she's just not that in to you.  That rule is modified by the corollary that sex on the first date can be worse than no sex in 5 dates.  In your strategy what role or indicator (if any) does sex play in the process when an older man seeks a younger woman?   

Shakespear:

Great questions.

First, I have to challenge your first line, "If you are seeking a younger bride . . . " You should NOT be "seeking" a younger bride.  You should be seeking someone that rocks your world - the chemistry - that spark.  She may be one year younger or 10 years younger.  When you have someone in your life who lights your world on fire you won't care how old she is!  My average client has LESS than a 10 year age difference - but those are amazing relationships.

Second, the question has to do with economic information that is shared with the lady.  My answer is NONE; but allow me to explain.  My wife didn't even really ask to understand what I did for a living until we'd been married over six months.  Why?  She deduced that if I had enough resources to make the trip to see her then I had enough to support a family.  That was all the financial information she needed.  She never asked me for any money during our entire courtship.  I advise men that they should not feel any compulsion to share their financial information; but indicate that they can provide for a family and her if she were to become part of it.  Once a guy is her boyfriend he does need to take over some financial roles, but a good girl will know not to ask for things.  The good man will want to take care of his woman and he can be generous with her since she's not asking.  The details vary from couple to couple.  The average income of our guys is around $60k.  I've had only a few top 2% clients.  And I've had a few that brought her home to a one bedroom apartment and could only afford to go back when it was time to bring her home.  They're all together today - and money was not a topic of debate or conflict.

Third, the question of sex will vary from person to person.   People who know what they are looking for will tend to attract the same types of people to themselves.  Some guys go over to 'nail' girls and they usually find the prostitutes (I screen these out from my tours, but I know that many men do this).  I have had guys who waited until the wedding night.  I've had a few who became intimate their first week that they met.  Interestingly, the ones who were intimate the first week they met are not together.  The guys who waited are.  Most fall in the middle.   You should NOT have a date number in mind.  This isn't America.  This isn't a, "You give me sex or we're through" dating scene.  I tell guys to think about the fact that you're looking for a wife.  Imagine five years from now as you look back at the week you met and your subsequent courtship, were you there as the man of her dreams or were you just trying to get in her pants?  This is your courtship with a woman who may dream about things we call traditional values.  I recently had a client become engaged.  During his first week with his lady she told him, "We have had enough dates that we would normally be having sex by now, but I want this to be about something special that could last a lifetime.  I'd like to wait until your next trip.  Remember, if we marry you can have me every day for the rest of your life!"  SHE GETS IT.

[sharonhaber00]

Someone had posted two of our videos on a public forum and labeled
the string, "Miracles Do Happen".  In less than one week there were
nearly 90 responses and many did not see us as "miracle".

I posted it. I found it by chance in YouTube. By that time I didn't know who Mark and Anna are. I wouldn't imagine that it would be a hot topic and that Mark will come to take part in it. 

I came up with this label instead of "amiables and analyticals" because their greatest asset is that they are altruistic - giving in nature - and true to themselves.  These guys hate the bar scene and pickup artists because they feel they would have to become something they are not in order to win.  They can't compete with bullies and braggarts (their perception) and refuse to become a 'bad boy' in order to attract a female.

So, my observation is this: altruistic personality types are tired of being told that they are not desirable in Western society to the women - and they don't know what they can do to win.  They don't know how they are supposed to behave.  They don't know what they are supposed to say.  So they say little and refrain from interactions so they are not embarrassed and rejected - again.

This is pretty much like me. But I don't think someone can win if he pretends to be someone he is not. I think the only way to attract is to be yourself. Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice. Many guys say when they are in a company of women they are not attracted to - they feel comfort because they don't want them, and then can be attractive to the women. But when they meet woman they attracted to - they become nervous and lose their head and therefore not behave naturally. They try to be liked and nice and this is false. They are not themselves. It's all about self esteem and confidence. Having failures harm the self esteem, and successes build it up.

.If a man is not able to read a woman and needs another man/woman to tell him what she is thinking then maybe he should stay home?

It would be better to find something like Mark's workshop at home.       

After reading the story I wouldn't say it was "miracle".     

[sharonhaber00]

There are different opinions about this matter. When I see it works, I think why that guy won such a girl? Some members here have tendency to discourage. If you think I waste your time - don't waste your time on me.

 My post wasn't really as much about answering you. It was more about giving a heads up to other readers who might not know your history... that in my opinion isn't a waste of time.

 By the way, last thing you said in your last thread was that you were forgetting about your FSU search and were going to look for a wife at home. Why the post about young FSU girls now???

 No need to answer... just a rhetorical question showing other readers why I think that you are just here trolling.   
 

What is that mean?!?!

Who do you think you are to decide about me what to write here? I'm a member here like everyone else. I ordered the book and red it. I had past experience with FSU women, including two trips to Ukraine. I can say that I search for a wife at home and I can say otherwise. Any problem with that? No need to shit on me for other readers, thanks.

[patagonie]

Someone had posted two of our videos on a public forum and labeled
the string, "Miracles Do Happen".  In less than one week there were
nearly 90 responses and many did not see us as "miracle".

I posted it. I found it by chance in YouTube. By that time I didn't know who Mark and Anna are. I wouldn't imagine that it would be a hot topic and that Mark will come to take part in it. 

I came up with this label instead of "amiables and analyticals" because their greatest asset is that they are altruistic - giving in nature - and true to themselves.  These guys hate the bar scene and pickup artists because they feel they would have to become something they are not in order to win.  They can't compete with bullies and braggarts (their perception) and refuse to become a 'bad boy' in order to attract a female.

So, my observation is this: altruistic personality types are tired of being told that they are not desirable in Western society to the women - and they don't know what they can do to win.  They don't know how they are supposed to behave.  They don't know what they are supposed to say.  So they say little and refrain from interactions so they are not embarrassed and rejected - again.

This is pretty much like me. But I don't think someone can win if he pretends to be someone he is not. I think the only way to attract is to be yourself. Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice. Many guys say when they are in a company of women they are not attracted to - they feel comfort because they don't want them, and then can be attractive to the women. But when they meet woman they attracted to - they become nervous and lose their head and therefore not behave naturally. They try to be liked and nice and this is false. They are not themselves. It's all about self esteem and confidence. Having failures harm the self esteem, and successes build it up.

.If a man is not able to read a woman and needs another man/woman to tell him what she is thinking then maybe he should stay home?

It would be better to find something like Mark's workshop at home.       

After reading the story I wouldn't say it was "miracle".     

You are developping interesting clues, but probably because of language, it is difficult to understand you.
If i understand you through the lines i would correct some issues about what you "told" us :

The only way to attract is to be yourself / unfortunately in western countries this is not enough and doesn't fit with the true (TRUE has to be shifted) expectations of WM.

Pick up experts say when someone is comfort he can attract women without notice / absolutely true but comfort is only one of the piece of attraction.

they feel comfort because they don't want them, and then can be attractive to the women. But when they meet woman they attracted to - they become nervous and lose their head and therefore not behave naturally / PUA are enough trained to not become nervous and to not loose their head. In fact guys who are loosing their heads in any relationship involving male/female interactions are loosing a part of their power with the woman. You have surely noticed that sometime when you are not interested by a woman you show her the appropriate behavior which attracts her.

They try to be liked and nice and this is false / Who ? PUA, surely not, absolutely not. A lot guys, nice guys yes.

They are not themselves. It's all about self esteem and confidence. Having failures harm the self esteem, and successes build it up / you are right self esteem and confidence is the KEY. The key for many things : to have a good health, to prevent you from suicide, to attract women, to keep a long term relationship. You only see in movies or in pinky romance the shy guys, shaking while standing with his bouquet in the hand, in front ot a house waiting the lady to get out. She smiles when out on the sidewalks and she is already having a crush for this clunky guy..... The rest of the story you know it : "They get married and happily grow 3 childrens". In true life this almost never works letting a bunch of guys believe in this pinky BS inherited of a generation of a true dreamer (and we don't speak about women producer, just men).