Miracles do happen.

[TomT]

I wish that I had a dollar for every member who has claimed a groundswell of support, through the PM system, from their imaginary friends.

For those people who are interested in such things, this is a variation of "appeal to widespread belief." People who employ this fallacy attempt to make their case by indicating that it must be true because many people believe that it is. Nevermind that the majority of people once believed that the Earth was flat or that one could not contract HIV from a heterosexual...


p.s.

Don't mind me; I'm just jealous because I have fewer imaginary friends.

[Muzh_1]

I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem. 

Mother Nature created the male of our species to be attracted to women of fertile childbearing age.  To deny such an attraction exists in every man is foolhearty.  It's why my wife doesn't get angry when I happen to look when a pretty young girl walks by me on the street.

Attraction is one thing, decorum is another. 

Something about pearls, lipstick and pork chops.

However most men of a certain age have the maturity and sound judgement NOT to act on those natural impulses, or to channel them in a more acceptable manner or outlet.

Conflicting messages there, eh?

[Halo]

From what i understand,unless it's all hype,if she had done,there is a pretty good chance her young Ukrainian husband would now be chasing other young women.

Mostly hype.  Not a "pretty good chance", either.

[sharonhaber00]

I'm happy to see there was no misunderstanding, I meant to discredit and insult you... as I would for any 50+ year old man who comes here saying girls in the late teens-early 20's are the age group that attracts him and tries to justify why he should write to them.  If you think that should be socially acceptable and get pissed off when I disagree and state my disgust then I guess that's your own personal problem.

I'm 46 now. I was pissed off by your discredit me for other readers to have bad thoughts about me, and certainly not by your disagreement. You would be right if I would be as you described. Keep in mind that much of your criticism comes from your extended interpretation about me.

You started this thread using Marks case as justification for writing to girls about 18-20 years old.

This is your interpretation. I would never do that and never did and not going to do, to write to this age group.

Then if you look at your post I quoted you state that this is the age group you are attracted to. You never mentioned older women attracting you, just the young ones.

I've never mentioned certain age group that I'm attracted to.

I've read your previous threads about your experiences with women who were in their 30's and it didn't go well for you.

It has nothing to do with their age.

You even stated that you are giving up on your FSU search and looking for someone at home.

Correct.

Then you post this thread showing interest in young FSU girls and the first thing I think  is WHY???

It was an anecdote. Not serious intention.

Is he trying another age group because he failed with the 30 year olds?

My failures occurred due to my mistakes, not because of their age.

Is he picking young girls who hardly have any life experience because they are more impressionable than older girls?

No. first, I'm not picking girls. I rather communicate and try to figure out if we understand each other. And no. I definitely prefer older girls who are more mature and serious.

That is the part that really turned my stomach and made me write what I did. If you think I'm an asshole for that then I guess I am.

I will let you define what asshole is.

I see in your last post you are talking exact opposite of how you started this thread. That you read what Mark said about the situation and agree with the experts now and would never consider such a big age difference. That eases my concerns about you a bit but I still can't help but wonder why you would even start a thread like this looking into the viability of writing such young girls in the first place.

   

Thank you for your concern. I wouldn't start this thread if I would know that many married guys who have families will spend extra hours and energy in front of the monitor writing in this thread. I would start thread if I need help and advice, as I did before in other threads.   
   

[Muzh_1]

Sharon, you are very difficult to understand. This was your second post on this thread.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

Then you got upset because an "expert" called you on it.

If this is not what you meant, you are sending the wrong signals.

[Halo]

Those certain people that are trying to make a problem out of Mark marrying Anna,because of her age,and the large age-gap,need to get off their soap-box and maybe ask Anna if SHE is happy.
Do those same people think she should have married a local guy around her own age instead ?
From what i understand,unless it's all hype,if she had done,there is a pretty good chance her young Ukrainian husband would now be chasing other young women.

Seems to me she made a good choice in Mark.

I don't think anyone is saying who either Mark or Anna should've married.

But, you are still wrong.  Mark and Anna hold up their young marriage as an "example" for their business of selling the dream of WM marrying much younger UW.  In fact, this thread was started because the OP presented them as an example of an old guy marrying a hot young woman, and how posters here were "wrong".  So, while their marriage is, largely, no one's business they, in a sense, make it others' "business". 

[chelseaboy]

I haven't looked at their website,so are you saying that they state that WM should marry much younger UW ?

If so Mark contradicts himself,because he has stated on this forum that WM should be looking to marry a UW that they get on well with,and that his marriage is an exception rather than the rule.I don't see any statements about deliberately looking for a much younger wife at all.

He states that on post 27 on this thread,his first posting,so i'm not wrong.Seems like you are.

[sharonhaber00]

Sharon, you are very difficult to understand. This was your second post on this thread.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

Then you got upset because an "expert" called you on it.

If this is not what you meant, you are sending the wrong signals.

Because I can't have it. Also I have the right to change my mind if I realized that certain approach does not work for me. I might be accused by sending wrong signals but not for being "hard ass". I will let you decide to what quote you would like to believe. You can believe to both. Many people have contradictions. Some are better in hiding them.       

[Muzh_1]

Sharon, you are very difficult to understand. This was your second post on this thread.

Yea
The "experts" wanted to teach me about age difference. Should I avoid writing to young girls just because the doctors say so? Why not try your luck with the age group you are attracted to just because they say it won't work?

Then you got upset because an "expert" called you on it.

If this is not what you meant, you are sending the wrong signals.

Because I can't have it. Also I have the right to change my mind if I realized that certain approach does not work for me. I might be accused by sending wrong signals but not for being "hard ass". I will let you decide to what quote you would like to believe. You can believe to both. Many people have contradictions. Some are better in hiding them.     

Hey, I have no problems whatsoever. As long as I know you'll change directions faster that a weathervane, we'll be fine.

[Halo]

I haven't looked at their website,so are you saying that they state that WM should marry much younger UW ?

If so Mark contradicts himself,because he has stated on this forum that WM shouldn't be looking to marry much younger UW,and that his marriage is an exception rather than the rule.

He states that on post 27 on this thread,his first posting,so i'm not wrong.Seems like you are.

Look at the "average" age of men on his tour (link posted here) vs the "average" age of the women. 

Look at how prominent his marriage, and their age difference, is "displayed" in his marketing materials. 

Yeah, the age discrepancy is a zero factor in their marketing or their business model.  Nevertheless, I was not commenting specifically on the age difference, though that is what has been discussed here.  Whether fair or not, if you are going to use your marriage as an example in selling a product, your marriage, all facets that are visible, is going to be examined.

[sharonhaber00]

Hey, I have no problems whatsoever. As long as I know you'll change directions faster that a weathervane, we'll be fine.

Good! we understand each other.

[Halo]

sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel. 

[Brasscasing]

"Yep,

         25 year age gap,she was 18 when they met.A big no no for the "experts" on here.

They met at a AFA social.Another big no no for the "experts" on here.

Well,they've been married 5 years now,and seem happy enough together,so i guess miracles can happen.

Mark does actually participate on the other main forum."

Words from the first page of this TR...not mine but his.

Seems a backlash is brewing on this forum, I have received 11 PM's since last evening and all have grown tired of the same group of guys who post here and on other forums...so these men are on multiple forums of the same subject...interesting.

Part 1... No idea what you're trying to convey. 

Part 2  I like today's confrontation and conspiracy fantasy, Justmd. It's a lot less violent than your last one. Build on that.

Brass

[leslied]

Several argument's in this thread -

Cradle Snatching

Almost impossible to justify.  Marriage to teenagers is extremely risky.  They have not grown up yet.  Never known ANY commercial operation which recommended this. Impossible in UK  minimum age for fiance visa is 21.  Also tainted by arranged marriage scams.

Youger Wife

Lets set a minimum age at 25.  This is arbitrary but the vast majority of women are functional adults by this age.  Large age gaps are difficult to manage particularly if children are included in future plans.  With older couples this is less of a problem in my personal experience.  I know one very stable couple - she is 40 and he is 69.  Marriage to a younger woman is one of the principle drivers of the MOB business and the simple fact is that FSU women are prepared to accept an older man.  There are very few marriages in this community where the woman is 10+ years older!

Judgmental bullying

This simply should not happen in this community.  Respect other peoples choices even if you would not make the same life decisions.

Problem is that Mark and Anna's relationship looks to fall in the first catagory.  Indeed it may have begun before she was 18.  This would be illegal in Ukraine and may explain the imprecision of the various accounts. However I don't see that Mark is recommending this to others...

[sharonhaber00]

sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

Halo

You will be surprised. But several women from Ukraine and Russia wrote me, and living in Israel was not an issue. More than that, there are some advantages. Israel relatively close to Ukraine and Russia (three hours flight between Tel Aviv to Kiev) and airfare cheaper (about 400$. Aeroflot is even cheaper). There is no visa requirements to both sides between Ukraine and Russia to Israel. There is big percentage of Russian speakers who came from the former Soviet Union, so in some cities you can hear more Russian than Hebrew. There are Russian shops and book shops, channel in Russian on TV and radio station. Many Russian nurses and doctors in hospitals and other positions in the system. So in some places they will feel at home.

If I have difficulties, it's only personal. My location is not a factor. I would concern more about living in the USA though...

[TomT]

... But several women from Ukraine and Russia wrote me, and living in Israel was not an issue.

You should pay more attention to a woman, such as Halo, who has no motive to mislead you, than to Internet correspondents who might have an agenda.

[Dogsoldier]

Several argument's in this thread -

Cradle Snatching

Almost impossible to justify.  Marriage to teenagers is extremely risky.  They have not grown up yet.  Never known ANY commercial operation which recommended this. Impossible in UK  minimum age for fiance visa is 21.  Also tainted by arranged marriage scams.

Not so. A Supreme Court ruling last year knocked this back to 18 on Yuuman Rights grounds.

[Rasputin]

sharon, no one has posted this, I think, but you are not going to have an easy time of finding a UW because very few would be open to living in Israel.

Yet, roughly one-fifth of the population of Israel give or take, is Russian-speaking and many of them (not all with Jewish ancestry, some the wives and husbands of those with Jewish ancestry) are happily living in Israel, many of them from Ukraine...

[Halo]

A Russian or Ukrainian without Jewish ancestry cannot move to Israel under its "law of return" .  So, other than family members in marriage, every Slav there has Jewish ancestry, although most are not recognized as "Jews" for, say marriage (which is controlled by rabbis in Israel). 

About 600,000 Russians/Ukrainians moved to Israel after 1989, and most of those did so because the U.S. was no longer open to them.  I know there was a big move in the early 1990's, when Russia was economically unstable and anti Semitism was occurring.  Many of those with money have returned to start businesses in Russia.

Many face discrimination in Israel, and that certainly is the perception in Ukraine.  I know many Russians who moved from Israel to my city, as business immigrants.  The story is the same.  Many loved many things about Israel, all are Jewish and are still committed to maintaining Hebrew language in their families, but felt "outsiders" there.  This is also a common theme in the Russian/Ukrainian press.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/news/after-20-years-why-has-russian-immigration-to-israel-stagnated-1.8125

There are a lot of Jews returning to Ukraine from Israel, particularly from the Hassidic Lubavitch (Chabad-Lubavitch) sects.  They have had numerous clashes with Ukrainians.

There are many who state (in Russian newspapers) that living in Tel Aviv is like living in "1950's Moscow" (a definite positive), and that they drive rabbis crazy, as they import salo, but lots of immigrants from Ukraine spend from May to early October in Ukraine.

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter how many Ukrainian Jews emigrate to Israel.  For non Jewish Ukrainians, the political instability of Israel is not a plus.

[Rasputin]

Ultimately, it all boils down to finding the exception who wants to spend their lives with us  Fortunately, we don't have to marry all, most, many or even some, just one 

[Halo]

True enough.  However, if 99/100 are not receptive to moving, shouldn't one consider a different approach that ups the odds?

[Rasputin]

True enough.  However, if 99/100 are not receptive to moving, shouldn't one consider a different approach that ups the odds?

Is it 99 or is it 98 or 95? Dating is always a numbers game and for some the number of women they will have contact, meet and date will simply be larger than for others when you are trying to meet the "One". However, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

[leslied]

Dogsoldier

You are correct.  See the age decision paragraph on this web page -

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/fiancee-proposed-cp/

Sensible decision. You can vote at 18, so you can marry who you please at 18.

[sharonhaber00]

In the past few years, Israel has seen an average of between five and six thousand Russian immigrants per year.

Isn't it sufficient amount of emigrants to choose potential spouse from?

"I feel much better here than I did in Russia," Garshina said. She believes the low number of new immigrants from Russia may have something to do with the way that Israel is represented back in Russia. "People think it's a war zone where people are killing each other on the streets. My friends thought I was moving to the end of the world, where I would be in danger at every second."

  

[sharonhaber00]

... But several women from Ukraine and Russia wrote me, and living in Israel was not an issue.

You should pay more attention to a woman, such as Halo, who has no motive to mislead you, than to Internet correspondents who might have an agenda.

If I got you right Tom, the woman may have a motive to mislead me(?) And the correspondence agenda is something like: "I let you believe I'm gonna live with you in Israel, but I don't have plans" (in sub context she has other motives than relationship and relocation)(?) 
Or if the woman initiated the contact, she red in my ad where I live. Bottom line, none of my correspondents who dumped me mentioned my country as a reason.