To tell, or not to tell?

[Fianchetto]

 I have a question - hoping some of you might have advice.

 If I choose to do the WMVM thing, should I tell or not tell the ladies?
 I am thinking if I tell them, they may be jealous, or upset, or spurn me outright.
 And If I don't, perhaps one finds out of the other(s), with similar results.

 What do you think?

 - (edit - add corollary) - If I WOVO, and we don't "click" then I've burnt several thousand $$ for nothing.

[mhr7]

Unless you want your visit to be an unsuccessful living Hell, you are there to see one girl and only one girl. 

[Manny]

I have a question - hoping some of you might have advice.

 If I choose to do the WMVM thing, should I tell or not tell the ladies?
 I am thinking if I tell them, they may be jealous, or upset, or spurn me outright.
 And If I don't, perhaps one finds out of the other(s), with similar results.

 What do you think?

Haha!

This is the $64,000 question!

Interesting to see which of our members that are married that did a "visit many" trip. I reckon not many.......

Great topic! 

[Halo]

I think if you are asked, you should tell.  Most women know already anyway, whether men want to believe that or not. 

Don't lie.  It is cowardly.  However, if not asked, I wouldn't volunteer the information.

[Larry]

If I choose to do the WMVM thing, should I tell or not tell the ladies?
 I am thinking if I tell them, they may be jealous, or upset, or spurn me outright.
 And If I don't, perhaps one finds out of the other(s), with similar results.

 What do you think?

As Manny said, that is the $64,000 question.  If you tell the girls, some or perhaps all of them are likely to ditch you. If you lie to them, there's a good chance some or all of them will find out.  That will almost certainly kill things with them.  The ways they might discover the truth range from repeated questioning to going through your passport and any other travel documents you have.  If you entered the country on November 14 but didn't meet them until November 19, they will have a pretty good idea you met another girl or girls.

I know one guy who met four or five girls during a visit.  Near the end of his trip, when he had narrowed it down to one girl, she asked him if he met other girls on his trip.  He refused to answer her, saying something like anything that happened before we knew we were right for each other was past history.  A gutsy move on his part, but it seemed to work.  I'm not sure I would recommend that.

If I WOVO, and we don't "click" then I've burnt several thousand $$ for nothing.

Yes, that happened to me once.  We all know it's a risk of the WOVO approach.

Dedicated advocates of the WOVO approach recommend that you spend some time on skype getting to know a girl before you take a WOVO trip to see her.   This improves your chances of predicting whether the two of you will get along well face to face.

[ashbyclarke]

I tend to go with the 1,2,3 option, if number 1 doesn't work out, or turn up which has been the case then number 2 is called into action, never met a 3.

Do I lie to number 2 when questioned when I arrived in city? Of course, she's number 2 for a reason, do I have a good time? 

Search then continues, wrong maybe.

If I speak with someone who's particularly special then I do a sole purpose meeting, without backup, never been wrong yet.

[bagalia]

You may get many different answers. There are problems doing a WMVM. First, I would say that honesty is the only way to go. There must always be honesty. You do not want the extra problems that come with lies. If you lose some women because of this then I would just let it be so. It is their loss. It is not like your are going to have sex over lunch with 10 women. You go to have lunch and see if there is chemistry. Nobody wants to waste time.

Now how to do this. If you want problems then visit women in different cities. It gets complicated. If there is one you like then it is difficult to say you are flying off to meet a few others and may return. If you are going to different cities I suggest not making firm dates and concluding all business in one city before going to the next.

I personally do not believe in a lot of foreplay. I think a few letters or skypes are good and then you go. You learn a lot more face to face than other ways. You continue to learn after meeting instead of before.

I think the only easy way is to write to many in one city. You do not need to say you are writing to many women but if asked you should answer with the truth. You tell each woman that you are coming to visit and want to meet over lunch to see if both of you feel anything for each other. You will get acquainted and later on the terp will call and ask (or inform) if there is any interest for further meetings. This keeps stress off the meeting. You can easily meet 10-20 over a couple, three days. Some will tell the terp they are not interested and some will be informed that you are not interested. Go from there. Forget about sex and focus on the job at hand getting to know each other better and whittle it down to the one. You may find that you only have one to work with out of the 10-20. Other problems come into play if this continues on for too long of course.

[ozybob]

I think if you are asked, you should tell.  Most women know already anyway, whether men want to believe that or not. 

Don't lie.  It is cowardly.  However, if not asked, I wouldn't volunteer the information.

correct advice above +1

  author larry Dedicated advocates of the WOVO approach recommend that you spend some time on skype getting to know a girl before you take a WOVO trip to see her.   This improves your chances of predicting whether the two of you will get along well face to face.

i would  not have considered  booking a ticket until i was very sure it might be worth the travel time from australia , hence i took the WM VO aproach
having many contacts i filtered them down to a few, then one just blew the others off the landscape for me , it became pretty clear very quickly we must meet, ,we communicated intensively for 3 -4 months via skype before hand though
   
i made the decision if our meeting was a non event , i would set about making contact with locals while there as best as possible and enjoy the place as a vacation and possibly travel to england /france to visit family etc, chalk it down to experience

my now wife knew i had communicated with others, same as she had , no problems ,but only flew to meet her .   

 total honesty , total trust ensues from that type of action

BOB

[Donhollio]

Interesting to see which of our members that are married that did a "visit many" trip. I reckon not many.......

  Count me in on the visit many. 
Even told the little Human Heater^TM I was going to this girls city in Russia, and convinced her to fly in to meet me.  Sent her $700 for the flight, and it was the best $700 I ever spent on a flight.
 
 It's all in my trip report

 However I had in my inbox more than a few angry letters from FSU girls, who realised they weren't the sole attention of my trip.
 Personal I think its ridiculous, that any girl should think that a guy would dump 5k to visit some girl he has never met, and if they part early on (1st date perhaps) they're just fine leaving him to fend for himself, on the broken pavement of the FSU.
 In the end its a crap shoot, and your better off not telling them what exact date you'll be in her city. Hide the passport at all costs, and never let'em see you sweat. 
Bullshit your way out of it, little 'white lies' aren't all that uncommon I have found when meeting some of these girls for the first time.

[Millaa]

WMVM - Write Millaa, Visit Millaa - I assume? 

[andrewfi]

WMVM - Write Millaa, Visit Millaa - I assume? 

What else could it possibly mean!

So, otherwise it is Write Millaa, Visit Olga?

[rosco]

 

[Aloe]

I say be yourself. If lying is in your character, then go ahead and lie like some suggested. If you are uncomfortable lying, then don't lie. Why would you wanna make yourself uncomfortable?
The purpose is to show your true self to the woman of your life. So just act according to your true self.

[patagonie]

The problem is that more than 80 % of men (90 % probably) are not comfortable to date women (women not woman).
So they go using the way which lets them the less uncomfortable and they are right.
It explains you statiscally why many married or commited based on WOVO are present in this type of forums. But in fact a lot of this guys have crashed in flames for many reasons (sucked by the mob businness, sucked by a prodater, ditched the first hour, ditched after one year (she was playing three guys in the same time and decided to choice an other)). And you very rarely see them coming here to explain what happened in the real life and how they have crashed.
In fact any man is able to meet several women in one trip, AS LONG AS he don't exchange more than few mails. The majority of men have an extraordinary ability to let grow the fantasy on their feelings right the way. So few exchanges to sort contacts is perfect before going to ONE city. I agree totally with Bagalia on this issue.
Many guys go on a train wreck because they have no control on anything, and especially because they are like butterfly flying above a colorful album of hotties, the polll raised and not knowing where to put it. When they have fulfill their fantasy and look carefully where is the little city of Mrs Paradise, and know the price of the ticket to go (just the ticket), the fog begins to be less thick.

Now of course when you have sort one girl in whom you are interested, who are really interested in you (many guys mistake themselves, lacking of skills to assess  it or they believe girls are attracted instead it is just FSU kindness) YOU MUST DO a WOVO.

Now if you see two trips of two guys WMVM, think about, for a total of 25 girls (a dozen for each guy) met during three weeks (so they had  time to know girls, no hurry), guess what, none of the favorites, prior the trip (we all have our favorites, the number ONE, the number TWO etc ...), had been in the final selection.

[ashbyclarke]

The way I see things is you can't realistically talk with more than 3 women before you get on a plane, I'm a big advocate of getting on a plane sooner rather than later, 3-4 months is wayyyyyy to long IMO.

Meeting many in one trip is fine if your using some back street agency, but for me I like to talk quite often using Skype before I consider getting on a plane, reduces risk of scammers and use of photo shop. You can see what your getting as some would say.

Talking to more than 3 is quite impossible unless it's a full time occupation for you, besides they all tend to be online at the same time, can make things tricky, besides I loose track of what has been said to whom.

Suppose it's easier for us Brit's it's only 3 hours or so and we're there. 

[Aloe]

Just keep in mind how our psychology works.  That when one has TOO MANY choices, they are A LOT more likely to choose NO ONE In dating particularly. People presented with too many choices in dating end up alone a lot more often cuz they don't know who to choose, while people who were presented with little choice did make a choice!

[AJ]

I have a question - hoping some of you might have advice.

 If I choose to do the WMVM thing, should I tell or not tell the ladies?
 I am thinking if I tell them, they may be jealous, or upset, or spurn me outright.
 And If I don't, perhaps one finds out of the other(s), with similar results.

 What do you think?

 - (edit - add corollary) - If I WOVO, and we don't "click" then I've burnt several thousand $$ for nothing.

[/b]

You can do either WMVM or WOVO..

but I wouldn't assume that a WOVO trip would be a waste if you have communicated well
beforehand.

Yes absolutely even with a lot of communication it can go south in 15 seconds on a WOVO trip.
However nothing stops you ,or her, from simply stating that is the case..and moving on.
you'd be a new country and can find things to do ,people to meet,if you've done a little research prior.

A *back up* plan doesn't have to be other women you have communicated with and set some level of  expectation?
It  can be as simple as an alternate  travel itinerary to a place you might want to do something interesting(if nothing in that city)
 skiing, touring a particular city of interest with its sights, the beaches in the south
 (in summer)  or simply  a few *reliable * agencies contact info in that city or another.

just a thought?


As far as WMVM, if i was going that route-
 I'd go through a service provider or agency where its out in the open from the start omn both sides of the equation.The women are dating somebody, foreign or local, last week and next week ,
as well ? like you seeing several during your trip.

While posters get wound up on this old issues, 
it is similar to flying into a US city for work, and setting up a few dates thru *its just lunch*
with little to no prior communication,
versus longer communication with natural expectations occurring with specific women in that city and flying in to date  them all.
 There would naturally be issues with some women about that for sure,depending on the level of communication prior.. others maybe not.

[Chris]

Suppose it's easier for us Brit's it's only 3 hours or so and we're there. 

  Where do you live and visit, (must live at Heathrow    )  I wish, my wife went over just before Xmas, 29 hours there and 33 hours coming back, to Western Ukraine.

[ashbyclarke]

Suppose it's easier for us Brit's it's only 3 hours or so and we're there. 

  Where do you live and visit, (must live at Heathrow    )  I wish, my wife went over just before Xmas, 29 hours there and 33 hours coming back, to Western Ukraine.

I don't include the 2-3 hour drive to gatwick!

If I fly from Birmingham it takes about 6-7 hours, works out about the same, gives opportunity to pick up gifts from Amsterdam 

[leslied]

I am one of the long time married guys who found my wife using the Write Many, Visit Many approach.

The WMVM technique is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the Write Many, Visit One WMVO technique.  The two approaches do not mix. 

To answer the OP's question - You ALWAYS tell the truth.

There are two distinct approaches “Visit One” and “Visit Many”   and the people involved in the scene tend to fall into one of these two camps.  Essentially it is a matter of self-selection based on personal style etc.  This applies equally to men and women.  Problems arise if you get involved with someone who employs the other strategy.  The two groups have different expectations.

Telling a woman who belongs to the “Visit One” group that you are travelling to meet several women will be a turn off.  Equally a woman who prefers to date will be unwilling to engage is long relationship building correspondence.

The first choice a guy must make is which approach to use. They don’t mix.  Trying to build several “Visit One” relationships always ends in disaster – especially if you have lied or kept very quiet about the other ladies.  Equally getting emotionally attached to a woman who prefers to date is likely to be frustrated by her lack of commitment before you meet and end with your feelings being hurt.

In making this choice you should be honest with yourself.  At home do you date several women at the same time?  Or do you tend to date one at a time? What is your personal style?  Remember the ladies also have the same choice.  A visit many approach will offend those women who prefer to build a relationship before you meet.  Most will drop out.

The “Visit Many” approach revolves around planning a trip. 

You make lots of initial contacts saying up front you will be vising in 6 – 8 weeks.  You use email/phone/Skype to filter the replies on the basis of your requirements list, compatibility etc.  You are not trying to build an emotional connection with each woman.   Keep communication brief and to the point.  You are building up a list of say 20 women you are going to meet.  On your trip you will run 20 first dates, maybe half a dozen second dates and so on.  With luck you will find someone you can build a relationship with.

The “Visit One” approach is entirely different.  You ARE trying to build a relationship before you meet.  This process is longer and requires greater emotional commitment before you meet.  It will normally involve writing to many women and engaging in long correspondence with several before narrowing the field to one, who you will visit.  Of course you may be writing in this way to 2 or 3 ladies but the approach is to visit one and if that does not work out to pursue your back up options.

[ashbyclarke]

Well thought out Leslied 

[patagonie]

Good post Leslied, especially about how people want or try to be emotionally involved.

[AJ]

Well thought out Leslied 

Yes, Les nailed  the fundamentals.


It should be stickied to the top of all those WMVM -WOVO threads over the years..
 

[GuppyCaptain]

You may get many different answers. There are problems doing a WMVM. First, I would say that honesty is the only way to go. There must always be honesty. You do not want the extra problems that come with lies. If you lose some women because of this then I would just let it be so. It is their loss. It is not like your are going to have sex over lunch with 10 women. You go to have lunch and see if there is chemistry. Nobody wants to waste time.

Now how to do this. If you want problems then visit women in different cities. It gets complicated. If there is one you like then it is difficult to say you are flying off to meet a few others and may return. If you are going to different cities I suggest not making firm dates and concluding all business in one city before going to the next.

I personally do not believe in a lot of foreplay. I think a few letters or skypes are good and then you go. You learn a lot more face to face than other ways. You continue to learn after meeting instead of before.

I think the only easy way is to write to many in one city. You do not need to say you are writing to many women but if asked you should answer with the truth. You tell each woman that you are coming to visit and want to meet over lunch to see if both of you feel anything for each other. You will get acquainted and later on the terp will call and ask (or inform) if there is any interest for further meetings. This keeps stress off the meeting. You can easily meet 10-20 over a couple, three days. Some will tell the terp they are not interested and some will be informed that you are not interested. Go from there. Forget about sex and focus on the job at hand getting to know each other better and whittle it down to the one. You may find that you only have one to work with out of the 10-20. Other problems come into play if this continues on for too long of course.

Pure genius in my completely novice and inexperienced opinion.  For what my opinion's worth at this point, wouldn't it make sense to just do what one is comfortable with? For me (as I'm sure for everyone obviously) a commitment is a HUGE deal and responsibility. That's why I'd want to be about as sure as one can possibly be about the woman I'll chose to hopefully spend the rest of my life with. With that in mind, doesn't one kind of need to date quite a few women before finding the "one"? I know some of you must have lucked out early on but for most people I would think you'd have to meet 50+ women before feeling a connection that's so strong that you'd consider marrying the person.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that you don't really get to know a person until meeting them live and in the flesh. While Skype is an absolutely wonderful invention especially as it relates to this endeavor, no amount of it is going to replace meeting in person and seeing how that woman acts in different real life situations, etc.

I guess the competing philosophies here are the proponents of doing your filtering in person or doing your filtering via Skype, etc. Personally, I can't imagine traveling such a distance w/o at least meeting a few ladies. Then once there is some serious established and recognized chemistry I'd be more than happy to travel and travel frequently for a lady I'm crazy about.

With regard to being upfront and honest if you're in the FSU to meet multiple women, aren't most FSU women that are also involved in this form of meeting a potential mate doing the same thing with WM? I honestly would have no disillusions that she wasn't keeping her options open and trying to meet as many men as it takes to find someone she's willing to uproot her life for. Am I wrong?

[GuppyCaptain]

Just keep in mind how our psychology works.  That when one has TOO MANY choices, they are A LOT more likely to choose NO ONE In dating particularly. People presented with too many choices in dating end up alone a lot more often cuz they don't know who to choose, while people who were presented with little choice did make a choice!

However should one just rush into a choice just to say they've made a choice? It's not always the worst thing to be alone (not forever obviously) than end up in a situation that's a nightmare years down the road because you rushed into something with the wrong person.