To tell, or not to tell?

[GuppyCaptain]

Leslied, that was brilliant. Thanks. You just solidified it for me.

 

[Aloe]

Just keep in mind how our psychology works.  That when one has TOO MANY choices, they are A LOT more likely to choose NO ONE In dating particularly. People presented with too many choices in dating end up alone a lot more often cuz they don't know who to choose, while people who were presented with little choice did make a choice!

However should one just rush into a choice just to say they've made a choice? It's not always the worst thing to be alone (not forever obviously) than end up in a situation that's a nightmare years down the road because you rushed into something with the wrong person.

I'm not saying choose the wrong person. I'm saying there is a danger you'll meet several good women, and you won't choose any of them, because you'll be holding out for bigger and better deal Because you'll be under impression that they are easy to come by, because you've met several already.

[GuppyCaptain]

Just keep in mind how our psychology works.  That when one has TOO MANY choices, they are A LOT more likely to choose NO ONE In dating particularly. People presented with too many choices in dating end up alone a lot more often cuz they don't know who to choose, while people who were presented with little choice did make a choice!

However should one just rush into a choice just to say they've made a choice? It's not always the worst thing to be alone (not forever obviously) than end up in a situation that's a nightmare years down the road because you rushed into something with the wrong person.

I'm not saying choose the wrong person. I'm saying there is a danger you'll meet several good women, and you won't choose any of them, because you'll be holding out for bigger and better deal Because you'll be under impression that they are easy to come by, because you've met several already.

I can see what you're saying. It's certainly human nature to be more selective when the pickings are good.

[bagalia]

Pure genius in my completely novice and inexperienced opinion.  For what my opinion's worth at this point, wouldn't it make sense to just do what one is comfortable with? For me (as I'm sure for everyone obviously) a commitment is a HUGE deal and responsibility. That's why I'd want to be about as sure as one can possibly be about the woman I'll chose to hopefully spend the rest of my life with. With that in mind, doesn't one kind of need to date quite a few women before finding the "one"? I know some of you must have lucked out early on but for most people I would think you'd have to meet 50+ women before feeling a connection that's so strong that you'd consider marrying the person.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that you don't really get to know a person until meeting them live and in the flesh. While Skype is an absolutely wonderful invention especially as it relates to this endeavor, no amount of it is going to replace meeting in person and seeing how that woman acts in different real life situations, etc.

I guess the competing philosophies here are the proponents of doing your filtering in person or doing your filtering via Skype, etc. Personally, I can't imagine traveling such a distance w/o at least meeting a few ladies. Then once there is some serious established and recognized chemistry I'd be more than happy to travel and travel frequently for a lady I'm crazy about.

With regard to being upfront and honest if you're in the FSU to meet multiple women, aren't most FSU women that are also involved in this form of meeting a potential mate doing the same thing with WM? I honestly would have no disillusions that she wasn't keeping her options open and trying to meet as many men as it takes to find someone she's willing to uproot her life for. Am I wrong?

I started an agency primarily to be able to live there and look for the right woman so I can say that I have met a few thousand. Of those women and the 5 years I did this I only met one woman that I really liked but she was scooped up quickly by a client and I did not wish to get in the middle.

I only met one habitual dater and he was quite famous on the newsgroups. I believe he is still around. I really think he was just a party dater. Much of why it took me 6 years to find the right woman for myself is that I saw these women from a different view I think, not the one arriving on a plane. Also, I was looking for the woman who was looking for me. It is terribly easy to date any woman in the FSU but who is looking for me? Lastly, I was just in the wrong place for me.

I gave up on Russian women. I found them to be conceited, opinionated. Once I moved to Ukraine I decided that is where I really wanted to look and I used the 5 girl a day over lunch technique. I am like many other guys who think they can only do a wovo. Agency life taught me that it is all in your mind. If you are all keyed up with ideas of sex and marriage and the future then you need to change the thinking. Make plans to meet a bunch of women and if your focus is compatibility as in chemistry and friendship then it becomes pretty easy. Go look for a friend among a group of women you already chose via pictures. If you find the friend and she has the face you want to wake up with every day then you are on the road. Think of it like interviewing for an interpreter or guide.

I met some who were not interested in me and some I did not like at all. There were some who were interested in me but it was a detached interest. Towards the end there was only one who was really interested in me and the sincerity kind of hit me.

[Muzh_1]

Just keep in mind how our psychology works.  That when one has TOO MANY choices, they are A LOT more likely to choose NO ONE In dating particularly. People presented with too many choices in dating end up alone a lot more often cuz they don't know who to choose, while people who were presented with little choice did make a choice!

However should one just rush into a choice just to say they've made a choice? It's not always the worst thing to be alone (not forever obviously) than end up in a situation that's a nightmare years down the road because you rushed into something with the wrong person.

I'm not saying choose the wrong person. I'm saying there is a danger you'll meet several good women, and you won't choose any of them, because you'll be holding out for bigger and better deal Because you'll be under impression that they are easy to come by, because you've met several already.

I can see what you're saying. It's certainly human nature to be more selective when the pickings are good.

Mon Capitan, what she is saying is we call that here 'the kid in the candy store' syndrome.

You's be surprised how often guys fall for this.

I know one who is on his thirteenth year.

[shakespear]

Interesting to see which of our members that are married that did a "visit many" trip. I reckon not many....... 

Add me to the list that did WMVM.

Russian women are quite used to "competing" for the attention of the best and most successful men. 

If they're not willing to "compete" for you then I'd take that as a serious "red flag".

In my opinion WOWO is a very risky proposition.  In many repsects you are putting yourself in a very difficult psychological position.  All that money, time and emotions directed at one person pre-trip may compell you to overlook some personalty or behavioral flaws that will eventually be fatal to any long-term relationship.  I've found the WOVO crowd are often the same ones you find saying "She'll change after she gets accustomed to her new home". 

No she won't.   

[shakespear]

I know one guy who met four or five girls during a visit.  Near the end of his trip, when he had narrowed it down to one girl, she asked him if he met other girls on his trip.  He refused to answer her, saying something like anything that happened before we knew we were right for each other was past history.  A gutsy move on his part, but it seemed to work.  I'm not sure I would recommend that. 

Absolutely the PERFECT response for a WMVM situation.  Brilliant. 

If she questions you more or refuses to accept that answer, start asking her questions about her last boyfriend.  It all boils down to everyone is an adult and we all understand that everyone has had relationships (sexual ones) prior to the current one.   

[shakespear]

I think the only easy way is to write to many in one city. You do not need to say you are writing to many women but if asked you should answer with the truth. You tell each woman that you are coming to visit and want to meet over lunch to see if both of you feel anything for each other. You will get acquainted and later on the terp will call and ask (or inform) if there is any interest for further meetings. This keeps stress off the meeting. You can easily meet 10-20 over a couple, three days. Some will tell the terp they are not interested and some will be informed that you are not interested. Go from there. Forget about sex and focus on the job at hand getting to know each other better and whittle it down to the one. You may find that you only have one to work with out of the 10-20. Other problems come into play if this continues on for too long of course.

Fantastic advice!

I can tell you that if you want to meet 10 ladies during your trip and you establish a "pre-trip" ranking of those ladies, I can virtually guarantee that ranking will change once you've met all 10 in person.  Often times the one you think will be the best turns out to be the one with absolutely zero chemistry when you actually meet.   

[ashbyclarke]

I know one guy who met four or five girls during a visit.  Near the end of his trip, when he had narrowed it down to one girl, she asked him if he met other girls on his trip.  He refused to answer her, saying something like anything that happened before we knew we were right for each other was past history.  A gutsy move on his part, but it seemed to work.  I'm not sure I would recommend that. 

Absolutely the PERFECT response for a WMVM situation.  Brilliant. 

If she questions you more or refuses to accept that answer, start asking her questions about her last boyfriend.  It all boils down to everyone is an adult and we all understand that everyone has had relationships (sexual ones) prior to the current one.   

And RW love to talk about previous relationships 

I always ask that question when I'm dating a girl I like, just so I know what to look for when she's lying   

[shakespear]

The “Visit Many” approach revolves around planning a trip. 

You make lots of initial contacts saying up front you will be vising in 6 – 8 weeks.  You use email/phone/Skype to filter the replies on the basis of your requirements list, compatibility etc.  You are not trying to build an emotional connection with each woman.   Keep communication brief and to the point.  You are building up a list of say 20 women you are going to meet.  On your trip you will run 20 first dates, maybe half a dozen second dates and so on.  With luck you will find someone you can build a relationship with.

The “Visit One” approach is entirely different.  You ARE trying to build a relationship before you meet.  This process is longer and requires greater emotional commitment before you meet.  It will normally involve writing to many women and engaging in long correspondence with several before narrowing the field to one, who you will visit.  Of course you may be writing in this way to 2 or 3 ladies but the approach is to visit one and if that does not work out to pursue your back up options.

Well written.  I'd only add that you can do the VM in 7-10 days as well.  Makes for a pretty hectic first 3 days but it can be done. 

The only absolute rule I'd suggest for WMVM people is don't make any cuts to your initial list until you've met each and every lady at least once.  Too often I hear about men who are just blown away by the first FSU lady they meet they stop the search and focus on that first lady.  This turns your WMVM into a WMVO WITHOUT all the intensive pre-trip screening.  Really bad decision. 

[TomT]

I've found the WOVO crowd are often the same ones you find saying "She'll change after she gets accustomed to her new home". 

No she won't.   

In many cases, she gets worse. Be that as it may, that can happen irrespective of how many women a man meets on a given trip.

[GuppyCaptain]

Just keep in mind how our psychology works.  That when one has TOO MANY choices, they are A LOT more likely to choose NO ONE In dating particularly. People presented with too many choices in dating end up alone a lot more often cuz they don't know who to choose, while people who were presented with little choice did make a choice!

However should one just rush into a choice just to say they've made a choice? It's not always the worst thing to be alone (not forever obviously) than end up in a situation that's a nightmare years down the road because you rushed into something with the wrong person.

I'm not saying choose the wrong person. I'm saying there is a danger you'll meet several good women, and you won't choose any of them, because you'll be holding out for bigger and better deal Because you'll be under impression that they are easy to come by, because you've met several already.

I can see what you're saying. It's certainly human nature to be more selective when the pickings are good.

Mon Capitan, what she is saying is we call that here 'the kid in the candy store' syndrome.

You's be surprised how often guys fall for this.

I know one who is on his thirteenth year.

Yes, well one can certainly understand how a person would fall into that can't we? I'll be selective when the time comes, but when the time comes I'll be serious about finding a wife. Even with my ugly mug stuck to the front of my face I don't think it should take me 13 years.

[patagonie]

I know one guy who met four or five girls during a visit.  Near the end of his trip, when he had narrowed it down to one girl, she asked him if he met other girls on his trip.  He refused to answer her, saying something like anything that happened before we knew we were right for each other was past history.  A gutsy move on his part, but it seemed to work.  I'm not sure I would recommend that. 

Absolutely the PERFECT response for a WMVM situation.  Brilliant. 

If she questions you more or refuses to accept that answer, start asking her questions about her last boyfriend.  It all boils down to everyone is an adult and we all understand that everyone has had relationships (sexual ones) prior to the current one.   

or ask her simply whith how many guys she is in contact on internet, normally it should be stop the flow of silly questions.

[patagonie]

The “Visit Many” approach revolves around planning a trip. 

You make lots of initial contacts saying up front you will be vising in 6 – 8 weeks.  You use email/phone/Skype to filter the replies on the basis of your requirements list, compatibility etc.  You are not trying to build an emotional connection with each woman.   Keep communication brief and to the point.  You are building up a list of say 20 women you are going to meet.  On your trip you will run 20 first dates, maybe half a dozen second dates and so on.  With luck you will find someone you can build a relationship with.

The “Visit One” approach is entirely different.  You ARE trying to build a relationship before you meet.  This process is longer and requires greater emotional commitment before you meet.  It will normally involve writing to many women and engaging in long correspondence with several before narrowing the field to one, who you will visit.  Of course you may be writing in this way to 2 or 3 ladies but the approach is to visit one and if that does not work out to pursue your back up options.

Well written.  I'd only add that you can do the VM in 7-10 days as well.  Makes for a pretty hectic first 3 days but it can be done. 

The only absolute rule I'd suggest for WMVM people is don't make any cuts to your initial list until you've met each and every lady at least once.  Too often I hear about men who are just blown away by the first FSU lady they meet they stop the search and focus on that first lady.  This turns your WMVM into a WMVO WITHOUT all the intensive pre-trip screening.  Really bad decision.

So imagine the guy who makes a wovo, how many are blown away ! they are generally lacking of socials with women, not used to meet beauties, have filled their heart like a cheminey full of feelings and fantasy before getting the plane. So if the lady is appealing and their appetite si not diminished by the jetlag and a problem of food, they become crazy .... welcome the train wreck ----  as you said Shakespear "In my opinion WOWO is a very risky proposition.  In many repsects you are putting yourself in a very difficult psychological position.  All that money, time and emotions directed at one person pre-trip may compell you to overlook some personalty or behavioral flaws that will eventually be fatal to any long-term relationship."

I have found that the first problem on the long term in such endeavor is not money, not vacations, but how to handle your emotional state. This is the most difficult asset to manage and you cannot recapitalize it. When it is over it is over because the self esteem is involved, and if this one is too much damaged, the race is over.
In this sense WMVM are really really better protected, as Leslied said, their first goal is to aim a city, and buidl an emotionnal relationship AFTER the meeting(s).

[TomT]

or ask her simply with how many guys she is in contact on internet, normally it should be stop the flow of silly questions.

There are some questions that ought never be asked and that's one of them.

[missAmeno]

...they are generally lacking of socials with women, not used to meet beauties, have filled their heart like a cheminey full of feelings and fantasy before getting the plane.

Really? Or it is one of those fantasies that helps you to believe you are right? By looking at this forum there is sufficient quantity of such guys making WMVM as well. 

[mhr7]

It has been my experience that if a woman discovers you are not just there for her she will not take you seriously. She will think that you are there on a"shopping trip" and are not emtionally commited to finding "the one".

[ashbyclarke]

It has been my experience that if a woman discovers you are not just there for her she will not take you seriously. She will think that you are there on a"shopping trip" and are not emtionally commited to finding "the one".

Honesty isn't always the best policy 

[mhr7]

It has been my experience that if a woman discovers you are not just there for her she will not take you seriously. She will think that you are there on a"shopping trip" and are not emtionally commited to finding "the one".

Honesty isn't always the best policy 

If you are seriously looking for a wife I think it has to be.

[GuppyCaptain]

It has been my experience that if a woman discovers you are not just there for her she will not take you seriously. She will think that you are there on a"shopping trip" and are not emtionally commited to finding "the one".

If that's the case then perhaps she's not emotionally mature enough to wrap her head around what it means to be dating in an effort to find a life partner. In my book anyway, I'd insist that she learned at least one word of Spanish.......adios.

[GuppyCaptain]

It has been my experience that if a woman discovers you are not just there for her she will not take you seriously. She will think that you are there on a"shopping trip" and are not emtionally commited to finding "the one".

Honesty isn't always the best policy 

If you are seriously looking for a wife I think it has to be.

Agreed, even if she can't handle the truth.

[Paul]

or ask her simply with how many guys she is in contact on internet, normally it should be stop the flow of silly questions.

There are some questions that ought never be asked and that's one of them.

I know the reason is different but this reminds me...

I once talked with a woman from Moscow who had over 60 men visit her, she didn't tell me over what period of time and I can't remember why she even volunteered the information (we only talked as friends for a short time). I wonder how many men here could handle knowing that about the woman he was pursuing even if the number was much lower.

[mhr7]

or ask her simply with how many guys she is in contact on internet, normally it should be stop the flow of silly questions.

There are some questions that ought never be asked and that's one of them.

I know the reason is different but this reminds me...

I once talked with a woman from Moscow who had over 60 men visit her, she didn't tell me over what period of time and I can't remember why she even volunteered the information (we only talked as friends for a short time). I wonder how many men here could handle knowing that about the woman he was pursuing even if the number was much lower.

I usually ask the women how many men have visited them. It gives me an idea of their experience with WM and let's me know just how popular they are. I doesn't really change what I do with or how I treat them. I've been surprised to have been the first to visit some of them, or so they have said.

[TomT]

I've been surprised to have been the first to visit some of them, or so they have said.

Did you believe them?

[mhr7]

I've been surprised to have been the first to visit some of them, or so they have said.

Did you believe them?

In general I think I did. Not that it mattered, many visits or none, it wouldn't have made a difference. It is nice to think you are their first though. Maybe it makes it a little more special to know that you are not one in a series of many visitors.