For better or worse, in my case worse

[jeffreysearch]

Yes and the Tired Old Debating continues  :  how about getting on with  just being some assistance to DH, and maybe listen to what he has to say, instead of our opinions about each other.   
Personally, i think the RW should be making more opinions about his R-wife`s behaviour, As they are the same Breed ( I think they confuse us WM very much sometimes ) 
Maybe i have to read Manny`s book a second time 

[jb]

Personally, i think the RW should be making more opinions about his R-wife`s behaviour, As they are the same Breed

Now there's a stereotype if I ever saw one.  I assure you, there are no two RWs alike.

[anjutka]

 
 
 
 
 She is seeing a new side in me. A no nonsense, take no shit side. She tried to slip into some bad old habits this week but I put a stop to it straight away. Yesterday she finally verbally apologised for her behaviour leading up to her departure and this is something I have wanted to hear from her since her arrival.

so good news!! i just yestarday wanted point out that you should give your feedback on daily base and don't give any dead line to that))meaning to react quickly in order to be at the end happy husband)))but you already did it))))very good)) at least this is the way which i ll choose as well..  so, people sometimes changes, when they realise how wrong they were.....sometimes we are forget how important what our close people(parents,family) think and feel....but good when life (or god) remind us where we are and how "long"  our life is))
 

[shakespear]

WTG DH, make sure you maintain a consistency in your behavior as well. That will build a strong foundation of respect that you felt was lacking in your relationship with your wife dog.

I'm sorry Jamie.  But IMHO that is good advice for training an animal to be obedient, not developing a relationship based on mutual respect and trust.   

[shakespear]

Its got nothing to do with magnanimity. Its not something I laud over her or plan to. Acknowledgment that she played a major part in bringing our marriage to the state it is in now is part of the healing process. Like it or not it is important to me to hear the apology and shows she is taking some responsibility for her actions. 

In the beginning I was sympathetic to you and your plight; but the more I read the more my mind has changed. 

You've created a win-lose situation and you've clearly won this battle.  You've "broken" her and subjected your will upon her in this regard.  Congratulations.

Payback is a mother; something I think you will probably come to understand when she finally decides she's taken just about enough of this shit.

In the long run, I think you BOTH would have been better off if she had simply stayed in Russia. 

[Eduard]

WTG DH, make sure you maintain a consistency in your behavior as well. That will build a strong foundation of respect that you felt was lacking in your relationship with your wife dog.

I'm sorry Jamie.  But IMHO that is good advice for training an animal to be obedient, not developing a relationship based on mutual respect and trust.   

yes and no, Shakey. Women do train their men and men do TRY to train their women, it's a part of a normal relationship  

[TomT]

Yes and the Tired Old Debating continues  :  how about getting on with  just being some assistance to DH, and maybe listen to what he has to say, instead of our opinions about each other.

You and I are in complete agreement on one count: this thread has become tiresome in the extreme. It's not because of the debate, however; it's because the fundamental problems in this relationship have been identified long ago, but DH doesn't want to hear it. He prefers to have his wife vilified as a controlling bitch who richly deserves his revenge, under the pretense of "fixing our marriage."

The cheerleaders of this lynching ought to be commended for their inattentiveness to the details provided in this thread, as well as their obliviousness about critical thinking. A few pages back, I threw out a bone to gnaw on. (My comment about the gym.) Predictably, it fell on deaf ears (blind eyes?). Apparently, if I don't connect the dots in tiny little steps, with quotes, diagrams, flow charts and footnotes, the content flies over heads. Oh well, this is RUA, not MENSA, after all.

[andrewfi]

I might train a dog to be obedient, never a woman who was my life partner. There is a difference. But one can view the process of learning and adapting as training so for sure training happens in a relationship.

[bobjf]

Try to move to other country for long enough time, while relying only on someone else for all your choices and actions, without knowing their language or knowing it little, with no connection but one person who only does some material action but is not able to listen. People are different - some don't notice the change, others - are depressed. You are lucky that your wife didn't have it, but this doesn't mean that if woman is depressed because of move then she is bad or guilty. She is weak, btw women are supposed to be emotionally weak. This means they are feminine. They also cry sometimes. Not all are capable to do all right all the time.[/color]

sorry alenika but you are wrong about my wife & i do fully understand what its like to move to a country without friends,different culture & a language that is not yours most likly far better than you do.
my wife did not find it easy at all but we managed to work through it all to get where we are today.
today her english is very good ( she had virtually no english when we met)  & she has adapted well to life here.
she is now a full citizen & proud of it
i hope the same for you when you move to your guy.
for the record my wife has a totaly different opinion to you on dh's problem so does that make her right & you wrong or the other way around.
no answer to that because none of us  have anyway of knowing what is fact ,only opinions & guessing
goes for all posters here except dh

Uh Bob, how is Alenika wrong here, then? You're agreeing with what she's posted.

You're right about the just guessing though, only someone with intimate knowledge of Downhearted's situation would know the real circumstances. However, based solely on what he's posted, Andrew, Tom, Alenika and others are not wrong in their observations.
From here it looks to me that some people are being shouted down because they don't agree with circling the wagons around this guy.

Brass

brass she is only wrong in thinking my wife didn't suffer from new culture problems,other than that i agree with her.

on dh ,exactly ,only those with tangable knowledge have any idea of what is & has transpired,
the boys club are still taking a stab in the dark & for reasons i have said before they need to pull there heads in .
neither of them know enough to take issue with how dh is handling HIS problem ,none here know that what he posts is not straight up & as such attacking him or other posters who venture a different opinion simply shows them up for being  little better than dh portrays his wife.
there so called experiance is not unique on this board ,far from it.
like all relationships there is no such thing as status quo.
anyone here who states they know other than what dh posts without any proof is guessing at best ,to state otherwise is pure BS.
park you ego & concede its just possable your wrong

no one here knows 1 way or the other if it is not exactly as dh states,that being the case who has any right to second guess him or belittle him for it or other members for ventureing a different opinion.
in any court of law you are presumed inocent untill proven guilty,here it seems, some pass judgement without any proof, happy to possibly hang an inocent party.
 
you guys  assume,so he is guilty.the only evidence given is his statement which none of you can prove to be anything but straight up,on this basis you hang him
i assume nothing & do not pass judgement on either untill   tangable evidence is offered to show otherwise.

[bobjf]

Yes and the Tired Old Debating continues  :  how about getting on with  just being some assistance to DH, and maybe listen to what he has to say, instead of our opinions about each other.

You and I are in complete agreement on one count: this thread has become tiresome in the extreme. It's not because of the debate, however; it's because the fundamental problems in this relationship have been identified long ago, but DH doesn't want to hear it. He prefers to have his wife vilified as a controlling bitch who richly deserves his revenge, under the pretense of "fixing our marriage."

The cheerleaders of this lynching ought to be commended for their inattentiveness to the details provided in this thread, as well as their obliviousness about critical thinking. A few pages back, I threw out a bone to gnaw on. (My comment about the gym.) Predictably, it fell on deaf ears (blind eyes?). Apparently, if I don't connect the dots in tiny little steps, with quotes, diagrams, flow charts and footnotes, the content flies over heads. Oh well, this is RUA, not MENSA, after all.

the biggest fool is the fool who deludes himself,injoy your ego

[anjutka]

 
 
 
 
 She is seeing a new side in me. A no nonsense, take no shit side. She tried to slip into some bad old habits this week but I put a stop to it straight away. Yesterday she finally verbally apologised for her behaviour leading up to her departure and this is something I have wanted to hear from her since her arrival.

so good news!! i just yestarday wanted point out that you should give your feedback on daily base and don't give any dead line to that))meaning to react quickly in order to be at the end happy husband)))but you already did it))))very good)) at least this is the way which i ll choose as well..  so, people sometimes changes, when they realise how wrong they were.....sometimes we are forget how important what our close people(parents,family) think and feel....but good when life (or god) remind us where we are and how "long"  our life is))
 

uffff...i wake up today with thoughts what i forget to write here :biggrin:too much internet probably?))))).... ..
DH, just would like to suggest you  to  talk with your wife about "what she dont like in you" i mean ,what she also want get different from your side as well.....Talk to her...open her up in this way...If she ll be shy or not sooo open, ask her write to you letter, where more easy put the thoughts :...etc etc etc....
 Then the learning and adapting process will be very useful for both....

[BBQ]

Bob, I have LIVED this situation, OK.
I have walked the walk. I KNOW of what I write. I am sharing what I learnt.
Come back when you have learnt to think and been able to understand how one thing leads to another.

Bob, your opinion is yours to hold but unless you can show me how you arrived at that opinion - the thought process behind it - then I need have no respect for it, I HAVE shown you how my perspective works, the thought process that takes you from one place to another. Argue with me, show me where my thinking and understanding are wrong based upon the information at hand.
I understand that most men do not think, they use emotion and gut feeling and call it thought. You are, I am sure an average bloke and do as average folks do. Our hero is acting like an average man. His wife is also likely average, this situation needs better than 'average'.

You lived this situation, I don't think so.  Unless you were with them 24/7, you don't know SQUAT!!!  Every sitiuation is different.

Many people know my story, I was shafted and it was 100% all her fault ... it does happen.

[Brasscasing]

...no one here knows 1 way or the other if it is not exactly as dh states,that being the case who has any right to second guess him or belittle him for it or other members for ventureing a different opinion....

Well, let's yak about this.

What I see is a few people, based exactly on what he's posted, picking up on some control issues in his statements and are trying to wake him up to it.

Before you ask, I'm not a psychologist but from a layman's point of view, if his posts are accurate, he's in a classic oneupmanship scenario that will only end in disaster if he (or both) do not break the cycle. Members have been trying to present that to him (remember dh asked for feedback), however, he immediately went into a siege mentality once people posted their thoughts on it and this running battle started.

Yes, there's been tough talk but it's a tough situation, we're not dealing with her hiding the remote or adding too many herbs to the borscht, dh is posting like it's my way or the highway, baby and as Shakey pointed out up thread, that's only going to last so long  and she'll walk.

I posted my statements because he needs to see how (at least one) third party views what he has posted (in his own words). If it gives him pause - Good, he can at least consider it. However, chances are he's already got tunnel vision, won't deviate from the course they appear to have set and any advice/observations posted won't matter anyway.

Brass

[anjutka]

 
 
 he's in a classic oneupmanship scenario that will only end in disaster if he (or both) do not break the cycle. Members have been trying to present that to him (remember dh asked for feedback), however, he immediately went into a siege mentality once people posted their thoughts on it and this running battle started.

 
 
 

as i understand its something similar with theory ''go from comfortable zone to the uncomfortable zone" in order to break the cycle,in order to get developments in life, etc etc etc....the thing is that nobody argue that person should go from "comfortable zone"...but as i see it ....uncomfortable zone is different for everyone.... ..   

should  not  be any battle....
 

[Voyager]

You and I are in complete agreement on one count: this thread has become tiresome in the extreme. It's not because of the debate, however; it's because the fundamental problems in this relationship have been identified long ago, but DH doesn't want to hear it.

The cheerleaders of this lynching ought to be commended for their inattentiveness to the details provided in this thread, as well as their obliviousness about critical thinking.

Tom I don't know who you mean here or "cheerleaders of this lynching"? I agree with you that it's good for DH to get input from those with different points of view. I can only speak for myself, I'm not a "cheerleader of this lynching", I believe you've given good advice, it's only the way that it has been put which I think could have been better handled.

I deliberately kicked the crap out of you in the hopes that you might grow some empathy.

Let's keep the dialogue civil please gentlemen!

Respectfully Tom, I don't think that was the best strategy, as it put DH on the defensive, and the point you were making was lost.

Then Andrew came back with this line, at which point it would seem that DH put him on "ignore".

. Our hero has acted like a prize idiot

Then followed with this condescending comment to Bob, and the thread went downhill from there.

Bob, you don't have to agree with me but your inabilty to think is saddening.

Just because Bob disagrees with you doesn't mean he can't think

Tom, you are a smart guy, I think you've given some very good advice on this thread, and I think Andrew's comments were also insightful.
*Get marital counselling
*Look to some of the things that YOU maybe did wrong, not just her.
*Don't try to hold it over her, look to move on and heal the relationship.

Sadly, because of the delivery, I fear that it's value may have been lost.
 

should  not  be any battle....

I suspect that had Anjutka written the exact same advice that Tom and Andrew gave, (with lots of smiles)))))))), DH would have said "Thank you for the good advice", and given it some consideration.

Just my opinion, FWIW.

[TomT]

Voyager,

It is convenient for an avoidant person to disregard subtlety. If I thought for a moment that mere innuendo might provoke some introspection, I would surely take that approach. Unfortunately, such has not been the case in this thread. In an attempt to drive the message home, I have employed hyperbole and broadside volleys. It is hardly an ideal solution but it is better than simply writing him off as being beyond rehabilitation.

[Voyager]

Voyager,

It is convenient for an avoidant person to disregard subtlety. If I thought for a moment that mere innuendo might provoke some introspection, I would surely take that approach. Unfortunately, such has not been the case in this thread. In an attempt to drive the message home, I have employed hyperbole and broadside volleys. It is hardly an ideal solution but it is better than simply writing him off as being beyond rehabilitation.

I hope you are right Tom, as it seems that he is making a go of it, I hope he can take something positive away from this thread.

[TomT]

Nevermind...

[BBQ]

It is convenient for an avoidant person to disregard subtlety.

Maybe but you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[Chris]

Thread now locked by request from Downhearted.