Israel and Palestine

[Manny]

In light of recent events, I wonder what the good folks here think about the Israel and Palestine situation.

[Markje]

In light of recent events, I wonder what the good folks here think about the Israel and Palestine situation.

I'm thinking Hamas is a result of decades-long abuse of Israel, but their actions are completely reprehensible/evil/etc.....

I also think Israel's response to this attack is wrong. Destroying a complete flat because they *might* host hamas is just as evil.
(Just ignore the news article, and click play on this video: https://www.telegraaf.nl/video/538131068/heftige-beelden-uit-gaza-stad-raket-slaat-tijdens-live-tv-uitzending-in )

I also started reading  up on the history of both countryies,

Gaza had an airport , bombed by israel
Gaza had a harbour, bombed by israel
gaza had XXXXXXX, bombed by israel.

Its inhabitants nicknamed it 'the largest open-air prison in the world'.

Unemployment 80% , economic outlook depressing and other things.

[Bodine]

My first reaction upon hearing the news was suspect. Israel was currently mired in the worst, unprecedented internal political chaos since its independence.

Beyond that, I hold the same sentiment above. I’m with the people of Gaza.

[Manny]

This comment from Kim DotCom on Twitter I found very interesting.

Understanding the Hamas attack on Israel:

Iran is aiming for a confrontation with Israel and the US. The success of Russia in Ukraine is encouraging Iran to undo decades of hostile US foreign policy in the Middle East. A bankrupt US Govt has just been invited to another war.

The timing is opportunistic. The US Govt is forced to print trillions of USD as it struggles to raise new debt. Another war would lead to a significant increase in inflation and an accelerated economic decline of the US.

If Iran mines the Strait of Hormuz the global energy crisis would become critical. The Biden administration has used the majority of US oil reserves to stabilize domestic oil prices. Iran can increase the pain for the US Govt significantly.

Ukraine is turning into a major defeat for the US and NATO. A new front in the Middle East would accelerate the US decline. The US Govt and its western partners simply cannot afford it. Russia and China would benefit most. Iran understands this and is playing into the hands of its partners.

Iran invites Israel and the US to a new war in the Middle-East. Taking the bait will accelerate the inevitable decline of the bankrupt US Govt. Imagine US wars in Ukraine, Iran and Taiwan simultaneously + North Korea attacking the South. A coordinated geostrategic checkmate.

[Faux Pas]

This comment from Kim DotCom on Twitter I found very interesting.

Understanding the Hamas attack on Israel:

Iran is aiming for a confrontation with Israel and the US. The success of Russia in Ukraine is encouraging Iran to undo decades of hostile US foreign policy in the Middle East. A bankrupt US Govt has just been invited to another war.

The timing is opportunistic. The US Govt is forced to print trillions of USD as it struggles to raise new debt. Another war would lead to a significant increase in inflation and an accelerated economic decline of the US.

If Iran mines the Strait of Hormuz the global energy crisis would become critical. The Biden administration has used the majority of US oil reserves to stabilize domestic oil prices. Iran can increase the pain for the US Govt significantly.

Ukraine is turning into a major defeat for the US and NATO. A new front in the Middle East would accelerate the US decline. The US Govt and its western partners simply cannot afford it. Russia and China would benefit most. Iran understands this and is playing into the hands of its partners.

Iran invites Israel and the US to a new war in the Middle-East. Taking the bait will accelerate the inevitable decline of the bankrupt US Govt. Imagine US wars in Ukraine, Iran and Taiwan simultaneously + North Korea attacking the South. A coordinated geostrategic checkmate.

I'm not buying that. The initial "attack" from Hamas on Israel immediately declared by the mainstream media is "Iran helped plan the attack"? Placing the blame on Iran as a justification to attack Iran. Who is trying to pull who into a war? The US is bankrupt anyway yet that has no bearing on printing money or supplying equipment and munitions to foreign entities. That is done at the will of the Rothchilds Central Bankers. Remember, all wars are banker wars.

Iran is immediately blamed and appears an attack on Iran is imminent. Russia is Iran's strongest ally will be drawn into this conflict. The Zionists can continue the Palestinian land grab, it's full frontal assault on Russia and wipe out Iran in the process. Look for 3.5 million more refugees to the West

[AvHdB]

The Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) legislature who happens to be Palestinian-American stated the below on X. The responses from the right are utter condemnation. Big surprise eh. There is thought allot of truth in her statement.

“I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity,” Tlaib wrote in her statement.“The path to the future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance. The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other. As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.”

[Faux Pas]

The Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) legislature who happens to be Palestinian-American stated the below on X. The responses from the right are utter condemnation. Big surprise eh. There is thought allot of truth in her statement.

She's a racist and a nutter. Where is the truth in her statement?

“I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity,” Tlaib wrote in her statement.“The path to the future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance. The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other. As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.”

[Bodine]

“I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity,” Tlaib wrote in her statement.“The path to the future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance. The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other. As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.”

I really do think if this idiot really believe her statement, she should walk her talk and get the first flight to Afghanistan, No. Korea, etc...and really make that point to its respective leaderships.

With these Democrats, talk always had been cheaper than free.

[2tallbill]

Unemployment 80% , economic outlook depressing and other things.

They need to be absorbed by another country or cease to exist. If they have an unemployment
rate at 80% they are not viable. I am 99% sure that nobody wants them. The UN should stop
classifying them as a country and evict them from the organization, until such time that someone
else takes them into their state.

Warning: The hate Israel screamers are coming.

[AvHdB]

“I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity,” Tlaib wrote in her statement.“The path to the future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance. The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other. As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue.”

Various domestic policies of R. Tlaib are the stuff of the whacky left. What is untrue in her statement regarding the conflict in Gaza?

Not entirely sure why the quotes are so messed up! Sorry.

[Contrarian]

Unemployment 80% , economic outlook depressing and other things.

They need to be absorbed by another country or cease to exist. If they have an unemployment
rate at 80% they are not viable. I am 99% sure that nobody wants them. The UN should stop
classifying them as a country and evict them from the organization, until such time that someone
else takes them into their state.

Wack-job 2tallbill brazenly calls for genocide of the people who lived peacefully on Palestinian land for 2,000 years since the time of Jesus Christ up until 1948.

[Contrarian]

Blah, blah, blah. Where is the truth in her statement?

“The path to the future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance. The failure to recognize the violent reality of living under siege, occupation, and apartheid makes no one safer. No person, no child anywhere should have to suffer or live in fear of violence. We cannot ignore the humanity in each other. As long as our country provides billions in unconditional funding to support the apartheid government, this heartbreaking cycle of violence will continue."

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-761490


https://thepalestineproject.medium.com/notorious-massacres-of-palestinians-between-1937-1948-ae4f4d1f61d0


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/9/the-deir-yassin-massacre-why-it-still-matters-75-years-later


https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-07-16/ty-article-magazine/testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin/0000017f-e364-d38f-a57f-e77689930000


https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/


https://imeu.org/article/quick-facts-the-palestinian-nakba

[Contrarian]

"Spitting on Christians is a Jewish Custom"

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-03/ty-article/prominent-right-wing-activist-says-spitting-on-christians-ancient-jewish-custom/0000018a-f4a1-d12f-afbf-f5f50ab90000

"Death to Christians" Violence steps up under new Israeli gov’t

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/4/9/under-netanyahu-violence-against-christians-is-being-normalised


Christians' life in Israel not so wonderful
Jews in Israel fire gunshots inside churches and set fire to monasteries, spray-paint malicious graffiti and slash the tires of Christians' cars. In the Old City of Jerusalem, religious Jews spit on monks, and in Christian cemeteries gravestones are shattered. Death threats are sent to bishops and heads of Christian communities.
 
Dozens of hate crimes – and the authorities stand idly by, apart from a few words of condemnation to do the minimum.
 
The state itself restricts the churches' activity immensely by imposing a strict and discriminating regime of visas for Christian clerics. A priest who wishes to stay in Israel in order to serve in one of the Christian communities will be forced to undergo a humiliating via dolorosa on the part of the authorities until he receives the stay permit, if at all.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4525312,00.html

[Markje]

Unemployment 80% , economic outlook depressing and other things.

They need to be absorbed by another country or cease to exist. If they have an unemployment
rate at 80% they are not viable. I am 99% sure that nobody wants them. The UN should stop
classifying them as a country and evict them from the organization, until such time that someone
else takes them into their state.

Warning: The hate Israel screamers are coming.

You are now parroting the Russian state, who said exactly the same about Ukraine.

Point is: As long as the inhabitants consider themselves a sovereign country, the world has no business to assume otherwise.
Im thinking the Israeli response to the Hamas-attacks are turning out to be even more evil than the object they are fighting.

[2tallbill]

Wack-job 2tallbill brazenly calls for genocide of the people who lived peacefully on Palestinian land for 2,000 years since the time of Jesus Christ up until 1948.

1. You are projecting.
2. Muzzies have never lived in peace. 
3. You are a screamer

Warning: The hate Israel screamers are coming.

My statement was that the Palestinian's are not viable (if they have 80% unemployment). However I
shouldn't have taken the statistic on face value so I just now looked it up. It's terrible like the US
Great Depression. 

The unemployment rate in Palestine was at 24.7 percent in the second quarter of 2023₁
https://tradingeconomics.com/palestine/unemployment-rate#:~:text=Unemployment%20Rate%20in%20Palestine%20is,macro%20models%20and%20analysts%20expectations.&text=In%20Palestine%2C%20the%20unemployment%20rate,percentage%20of%20the%20labour%20force.

[2tallbill]

You are now parroting the Russian state, who said exactly the same about Ukraine.

If Ukraine had an 80% unemployment rate the Russian state might have been correct.
Neither state ever had 80% unemployment, I took your statement at face value.

[2tallbill]

Point is: As long as the inhabitants consider themselves a sovereign country, the world
has no business to assume otherwise.

Your non-solution would promote absolute tribalism and near constant war.

[Contrarian]

Wack-job 2tallbill brazenly calls for genocide of the people who lived peacefully on Palestinian land for 2,000 years since the time of Jesus Christ up until 1948.

1. You are projecting.
2. Muzzies have never lived in peace. 
3. You are a screamer

You're either as dumb as a rock or patently dishonest, or both. I'm going with both.

Quote

"The notion that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) is “moral” or “righteous” also rings hollow: during the recent invasion of Gaza, known euphemistically as Operation Protective Edge, Israeli’s military murdered 501 children, and 1,473 civilians, plus 157 combatants.

Palestinian combatants killed 71 Israelis: 66 soldiers, one security coordinator, four civilians, and a foreign national."


https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-tries-brand-itself-peaceful-democratic-oasis-dont-fall/5835441


https://www.bitchute.com/video/0s3oJMbYkCZI/

[Markje]

My statement was that the Palestinian's are not viable (if they have 80% unemployment). However I
shouldn't have taken the statistic on face value so I just now looked it up. It's terrible like the US
Great Depression. 

The unemployment rate in Palestine was at 24.7 percent in the second quarter of 2023₁
https://tradingeconomics.com/palestine/unemployment-rate#:~:text=Unemployment%20Rate%20in%20Palestine%20is,macro%20models%20and%20analysts%20expectations.&text=In%20Palestine%2C%20the%20unemployment%20rate,percentage%20of%20the%20labour%20force.

I'll raise you one unemployment , note that I was not talking about all of Palestine, but only the parts that Israel took offence now "Gaza-strip".

https://www.unicef.org/mena/press-releases/fifteen-years-blockade-gaza-strip (article written in June 2022)

"Today [21 June] marks 15 years of the blockade of the Gaza Strip.

"Largely due to the blockade, poverty, high unemployment rates and other factors, nearly 80 per cent of Gazans now rely on humanitarian assistance. More than half of Gaza’s just over 2 million people live in poverty, and nearly 80 per cent of the youth are unemployed.

"More needs to be done to alleviate the humanitarian situation, with the eventual goal of a full lifting of the Israeli closures, in line with UNSCR 1860 (2009). Only sustainable political solutions will relieve the pressures on the long-suffering people of Gaza.

Needless to say this never happened.

Although I disagree with Hamas's attacks, they sure are explainable. If you've been so brutally oppressed for 15 years , with bulldozers taking down houses where you still live in them (reuters.com) , your reaction is going to be extreme.

Looking back at the last 15 years of blockade and repeated cycles of violence bringing death and destruction in their wake, Gaza has experienced momentous de-development, severely impacting normal daily life for all residents and restricting their basic human rights. The statistics are staggering. Today, 81.5 per cent of individual in Gaza, 71 per cent of whom are Palestine refugees, live below the national poverty line. Sixty-four percent are food insecure.  The unemployment rate in 2021 stood at 47 per cent, with the overall youth unemployment rate at 64 per cent. In 2020, the per capita GDP stood at US$ 1,049

Now you say they are not a country with these figures , but the people living there did not fall to tribalism, they have a central working government with only 1 powergroup (hamas).

Care to speculate whom they blame for all this?

[Jonas!]

Unemployment 80% , economic outlook depressing and other things.

They need to be absorbed by another country or cease to exist. If they have an unemployment
rate at 80% they are not viable. I am 99% sure that nobody wants them. The UN should stop
classifying them as a country and evict them from the organization, until such time that someone
else takes them into their state.

Warning: The hate Israel screamers are coming.

Given they are under so many restrictions, sanctions, embargos, I am surprised there is any work for the people on the Gaza strip.  I don't think anybody could survive without a lot of outside assistance the way they have to live currently. 

Jonas! 

[AvHdB]

Care to speculate whom they blame for all this?

Aliens.


Of course let’s go with America.

[Jonas!]

Unemployment 80% , economic outlook depressing and other things.

They need to be absorbed by another country or cease to exist. If they have an unemployment
rate at 80% they are not viable. I am 99% sure that nobody wants them. The UN should stop
classifying them as a country and evict them from the organization, until such time that someone
else takes them into their state.

   

Wack-job 2tallbill brazenly calls for genocide of the people who lived peacefully on Palestinian land for 2,000 years since the time of Jesus Christ up until 1948.

He is not alone, there are lot of Americans calling for this genocide.  If the response isn't proportional, the worldwide tide will turn against Israel even more and they will wind up paying in many ways.

This is old history, but from what I've read Israel when Israel was formed in 1948, it was against the will of all the Arab nations surrounding it.  Seems like a bad idea from the start. 

Jonas! 

[Contrarian]

Care to speculate whom they blame for all this?

Aliens.

Of course let’s go with America.

Yes well that's mostly correct.

The USA never should have supported the creation of this place to begin with and should defund them immediately.

What they did to the crew of the USS Liberty is just the beginning of their backstabbing terrorism against others who've tried to help them.


https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/08/were-fed-it-survivors-of-uss-liberty-look-answers-55-years-later.html

[Contrarian]

FACTS SHOW WHY U.S. SHOULD CUT SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL
To The Holland Sentinel, July 2, 2023

So far this summer, Israeli settlers have attacked at least three Americans visiting their relatives in villages in the West Bank, Palestine. “The villages attacked by settlers include Turmus Ayya, where many of the residents are Palestinian-Americans,” said Rep. Janice Schakowsky (D-IL), who is Jewish.

It’s time for the U.S. State Department to work proactively to promote equal human rights for all the peoples of Israel-Palestine, including Palestinians. The facts below, compiled by If Americans Knew, illustrate how the overwhelming disparity of American support for one side promotes the oppression of the other. Neither side must use U.S. tax dollars to oppress or harm the other.

Daily U.S. aid to Israel: $13.1 million; to Palestine: $0.73 million
Children killed since 2000: Israelis: 143; Palestinians: 2,430
Total killed since 2000: Israelis: 1,345; Palestinians: 10,731
Total injured since 2000: Israelis: 11,954; Palestinians: 100,508
Those killed by rockets since 2000: Israelis: 30; Palestinians: 4,000
Number of political prisoners held: by Israel: 5,000; by Palestine: 2
Homes demolished since 1967: Israel: 56,502; Palestine: 7
Number of illegal settlements on other’s land: Israel: 261; Palestine: 0

Contact your representative asking them to support the Defending the Human Rights of Palestinian Children and Families Living Under Israeli Military Occupation Act, H.R. 3103, which prohibits U.S. tax dollars from being used to detain and torture Palestinian children, demolish and seize Palestinian homes and further annex Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank.

—Bart Den Boer, Kairos of West Michigan

[rosco]

This conflict certainly plays a key role in the complex world of geopolitics. Has it got anything to do with Russia, maybe and maybe not but they will be happy to see Iran fuel the fire and pull the US into another conflict.

The US and some other western nations will obviously support Isreal in their fight and this will include more money, personal and of course weapons. This all at a time when we've almost emptied our donation cupboards, our forces are sitting on the bare minimum of stock and the piggy banks are bled dry.

The west wasn't best prepared to fund a large scale war in Europe never mind bank roll another in the Middle East.

The media are in Middle East overdrive all whilst the conflict in Ukraine takes a back seat, for now at least. The summer offensive has failed, the Ukrainian army severely depleted and running out of ammo and men quickly.

This conflict in Isreal could well push Zelensky and his western handlers to the negotiation table, quicker than they might have wanted. The question is, would Russia want to compromise if they can smell blood?