Weight Lifting vs Diet

[Lord of the Dance]

I'm a well-fed lad who has traditionally been somewhat overweight for my short height (5'-6" @ 210 pounds). But I like food and even after cutting out the garbage, there's still a lot of 'unhealthy' stuff that I'm not giving up (red meat, for example). So instead of dieting to lose fat, I'm ignoring the fat and building muscle.

I've been hitting the gym three days a week since January and at this point it's clear that my body fat is decreasing as my muscles grow. I have a ways to go yet, but progress is progress nonetheless.

I'm benching 200 pounds, squatting 275 pounds and I'm up to over 500 pounds on the leg press. New gains are obviously much slower than the initial gains I was making back in the spring, jumping 25 pounds at a time. But I'm going to keep at it, adding a few pounds each week. (never mind my face in the pic, I was 'under load'  )

Working out is not the tough part - keeping a disciplined gym schedule is the tough part (at least for me).

[Markje]

Good going man!

I hit the gym 2ce a week, but not been able to remove my fat old-man belly. Although I am mildly chubby in the belly area, I don't care, but its a cancer-risk so I still try to remove it.

[andrewfi]

Good for you, but as 'they' say fat loss comes from what goes in our mouths.

A friend of mine has been trying to lose weight while also building muscle. Weight loss isn't happening but his shape is changing a bit. But doing enough exercise to burn serious excess fat is a challenge beyond most people.

[Manny]

I've just signed back up to the gym and started going again, maybe 2-3 times a week.

I know from past experience, I get fitter but seldom lose any actual weight. Why I will be going the route of the stuff Andrew is on as well - that is, if I can ever find any in the UK.

[Markje]

I've just signed back up to the gym and started going again, maybe 2-3 times a week.

I know from past experience, I get fitter but seldom lose any actual weight. Why I will be going the route of the stuff Andrew is on as well - that is, if I can ever find any in the UK.

Same here. I am in pretty good overall shape, but that stomach aint getting smaller unfortunately.

I really have to see if I can get Lena to cook less delicious stuff.

[Faux Pas]

I've just signed back up to the gym and started going again, maybe 2-3 times a week.

I know from past experience, I get fitter but seldom lose any actual weight. Why I will be going the route of the stuff Andrew is on as well - that is, if I can ever find any in the UK.

Exercise is always good but seldom a path to weight loss. I would caution jumping on the Big Pharma answer to weight loss that has become widely popular. Weight loss being one and there are others including habit changing. Ozempic, Monjuro and the like were developed as type 2 diabetes drugs with quite a few positive side effects.

So much so they are now claiming them wonder drugs. Something that has not been touted is the negative side effects as if there are none. Be weary there are negative side effects to all of Big Pharma's products. I find it curious that all the big pharm companies all come out with a "wonder drug" at pretty much the same time.

As FiFi mentioned, weight loss is directly connected to what you put in your body. Where most of the weight gain comes from is refined sugar and processed food. All of those ends up being stored fat in your body. There is a film on Netflix you might want to see that explains a couple of studies on the subject. It's called "Forks over knives". It's very enlightening

[andrewfi]

There are side effects to Ozempic. I have discussed them.

In truth, most of the side effects are transitory and actually help the weight loss process. I was somewhat diappapointed when they passed.

There are some contraindications to the use of these treatments but people using the drugs under the auspices of a real doctor will be doing so because they are not part of the group of people for whom such treatment is contraindicated.

Of course people are free to choose not to use these treatments. There's no pressure to use them.

At the end of the day, the health benefits of these drugs seem clear. I certainly have benefits that I feel and experience every day.

It's not just about how one looks. I am happy that my risk of weigh related heart issues has fallen through the floor. The benefits of reduced stress on my back and joints I feel now and will experience for years to come.

Of course, existing damage remains so at some point, I am almost certain to have joint and back pain again. But I have regained years of useful, quality life.

Unless evidence against long term use comes to light, I intend to continue using either Ozempic or Rybelsus for the indefinite future.

But now, I intend to work on my core strength and that means additional muscle mass. But that's not going to happen through my cake hole.

[Lord of the Dance]

Not arguing that lifting weights is not the best way to get rid of fat, but two things: 1) I don't want to lose the joy of eating some of my favorites like bread, pasta and red meat. 2) supposing I did have the will power to cut all the good stuff and just lose the fat, I don't want my skin to look like a deflated balloon. 

(went to school with a buddy who was a real big guy and lately he has lost a ton of weight, but his man boobs now look like dead squids).

I figure that if the fat is *slowly* replaced by muscle, the skin won't really 'deflate' too much. Clearly I am an expert in this field and you should all bow to my superior health advice.

 

[Faux Pas]

Not arguing that lifting weights is not the best way to get rid of fat, but two things: 1) I don't want to lose the joy of eating some of my favorites like bread, pasta and red meat. 2) supposing I did have the will power to cut all the good stuff and just lose the fat, I don't want my skin to look like a deflated balloon. 

(went to school with a buddy who was a real big guy and lately he has lost a ton of weight, but his man boobs now look like dead squids).

I figure that if the fat is *slowly* replaced by muscle, the skin won't really 'deflate' too much. Clearly I am an expert in this field and you should all bow to my superior health advice.

 

Listen, weights and physical exercise is good for you for a lot of reasons. Keep it up. You don't have to stop cold turkey or even totally stop eating things that are bad for you. I'd say identify and define your weakness in foods that are bad for you and those that work against your goals. In essence know what it is that you eat. Bread and pasta is processed food and it's bad and fattening for your body. You don't have to stop eating it altogether but you should consider limiting it.

As far as fat is concerned, you can eat all the whole natural meat you wish as long as it isn't processed like MickeyD's chicken nuggets, patties, fries or deep fried anything. Actually it isn't deep fried as much as it is what oil it's fried in, is it processed food? You can fry anything whole (not processed) but do it in a natural oil such as peanut, olive or coconut. Not vegetable, sunflower or other processed oils. You are what you eat is a very true statement. Our bodies were not made for processed foods and man made chemicals. Our bodies do not know how to handle those and store them as fat

[Manny]

I think a lot is genetic too.

The only thing I consume that is bad for me is wine. Food wise, I eat almost no crap (Russian women won't buy it anyway - they even think tinned food is evil), almost nothing processed, no fast food, no sodas, almost no chocolate, very little bread and pasta (apart from the odd pizza I make myself and the odd lunchtime sandwich), I don't go to the chippy more than about twice a year, you'll never find me in a McD or KFC. I eat stuff like kapusta, kefir, gherkins, loads of eggs, all the usual Russian-influenced stuff. A lot of fibre and protein. I do like lean chicken, steak, farm sausages and bacon (without nitrates) though. I don't do desserts. I'd say my diet is better than most here (UK). I look at people's supermarket trolleys sometimes and think "WTF is all that shite?" - then you look at them and see why they are fat.

Based on what I eat, I should have a stomach like a washboard, but I'm more Party 7 than six-pack (might just be a Brit saying). But I do have some aunties and cousins on one side of the family that are all rather rotund. I think it comes from that side of the family.

[Manny]

As far as fat is concerned, you can eat all the whole natural meat you wish as long as it isn't processed like MickeyD's chicken nuggets, patties, fries or deep fried anything. Actually it isn't deep fried as much as it is what oil it's fried in, is it processed food? You can fry anything whole (not processed) but do it in a natural oil such as peanut, olive or coconut. Not vegetable, sunflower or other processed oils. You are what you eat is a very true statement. Our bodies were not made for processed foods and man made chemicals. Our bodies do not know how to handle those and store them as fat

In addition to the above, we fry almost nothing and only have olive or avocado oil. And I avoid fat on meat, only fillet steaks, no chicken skin/fat, etc.

And just to digress for a moment, how expensive are decent (non-pharmaceutical-laden) steaks in the US? Wifey normally goes to Costco, but I went today, and fukk me, 4 fillets, 1.3kg, £50! 



For those over the pond, that is 2.93 pounds for $64, in Costco. $21.80 a pound. Reasonable?

[Bodine]

For those over the pond, that is 2.93 pounds for $64, in Costco. $21.80 a pound. Reasonable?

Reasonable within the range where we are.

British Beef Fillet is probably the same as our (organic/grass-fed) Filet Mignon which goes from $23-28.00/pound.

[Bodine]

Listen, weights and physical exercise is good for you for a lot of reasons. Keep it up. You don't have to stop cold turkey or even totally stop eating things that are bad for you. I'd say identify and define your weakness in foods that are bad for you and those that work against your goals. In essence know what it is that you eat. Bread and pasta is processed food and it's bad and fattening for your body. You don't have to stop eating it altogether but you should consider limiting it.

As far as fat is concerned, you can eat all the whole natural meat you wish as long as it isn't processed like MickeyD's chicken nuggets, patties, fries or deep fried anything. Actually it isn't deep fried as much as it is what oil it's fried in, is it processed food? You can fry anything whole (not processed) but do it in a natural oil such as peanut, olive or coconut. Not vegetable, sunflower or other processed oils. You are what you eat is a very true statement. Our bodies were not made for processed foods and man made chemicals. Our bodies do not know how to handle those and store them as fat

Agree for the most part. Except the 'peanut oil'.

You are what you eat. What you do with what you eat will definitely shape your state of being.

Lifting weights...hahah allow me to shift the belief lifting weights is equal to 'muscles'. I'm not sure if Anatoly is Ukrainian, or if his videos are real, but this guy actually have his own YouTube page.

Here's one of them:

[Faux Pas]

I think a lot is genetic too.

The only thing I consume that is bad for me is wine. Food wise, I eat almost no crap (Russian women won't buy it anyway - they even think tinned food is evil), almost nothing processed, no fast food, no sodas, almost no chocolate, very little bread and pasta (apart from the odd pizza I make myself and the odd lunchtime sandwich), I don't go to the chippy more than about twice a year, you'll never find me in a McD or KFC. I eat stuff like kapusta, kefir, gherkins, loads of eggs, all the usual Russian-influenced stuff. A lot of fibre and protein. I do like lean chicken, steak, farm sausages and bacon (without nitrates) though. I don't do desserts. I'd say my diet is better than most here (UK). I look at people's supermarket trolleys sometimes and think "WTF is all that shite?" - then you look at them and see why they are fat.

Based on what I eat, I should have a stomach like a washboard, but I'm more Party 7 than six-pack (might just be a Brit saying). But I do have some aunties and cousins on one side of the family that are all rather rotund. I think it comes from that side of the family.

Yeah our diet is Russian centric too. The wife takes her food and preparation very seriously as to natural and unprocessed foods. While I really do like Russian food, it took her awhile get win me over to it fully, to the point where we are now. There may very well be genetics in play for many folks. That's probably a whole 'nother topic alone. I was guilty of thinking that there is a genetics factor when I was 100lbs heavier than I am now.

It doesn't sound like your diet is a bad one. If excess fat is an issue, you might want to do is look closer at the ingredients of what you are eating. There are so many man made chemicals, sugars, salts, oils and other by products that manufacturers sneak into foods thinking you'll never read the labels.

For me I love deserts and always have but, the key is moderation. Eating them more than once a week (for me) is counterproductive and will pile on the pounds. Sugar is as addictive as heroin or more so. I love the fat on most meats especially beef. While in my 40's I was determined to get rid of my by then protruding belly and I did. But I only did so by a strict diet and millions of sit-ups, which I hate. I got it slim, trim and some good tone but when I got off the diet and quit with the sit-ups, it came back with a vengence

[Faux Pas]

Agree for the most part. Except the 'peanut oil'.

You are what you eat. What you do with what you eat will definitely shape your state of being.

I am a son of the South. I still have "needs" as far as deep fried foods.  I find peanut oil to be the best to deep fry in. Even it is getting too expensive but it is better than the processed oils and doesn't soak into the meat as much

[Bodine]

Agree for the most part. Except the 'peanut oil'.

You are what you eat. What you do with what you eat will definitely shape your state of being.

I am a son of the South. I still have "needs" as far as deep fried foods.  I find peanut oil to be the best to deep fry in. Even it is getting too expensive but it is better than the processed oils and doesn't soak into the meat as much

No kidding. Don't let me get started with Popeye Chicken and Church's deep fried okra, baby. Be damned. I'm addicted to those and I just cannot NOT have it even for a once/month guilty pleasure.

[andrewfi]

Lord of The Dance, IMHO, avoiding saggy skin is about moderation. It's unlikely that a normal human is going to replace the bulk of fat with muscle. That's not how most humans are made.

Also as we get older the elasticity of our skin reduces.

For myself, as I have lost weight over the years, on the whole I have not suffered too badly from saggy skin. That's a result of taking 6 or more years to attain my goal.

Also much of the excess skin, in most people, is full of fat and cannot be replaced by muscle. So, bingo wings and tummy aprons, do not sit atop muscle that can ever fill the void left by fat loss.

To make matters worse, the examples we often still full of fat. The excess skin is lost over time as these fat remnants are lost. I can vouch for that from my own experience. Much of the excess skin is just skin filled with fat that has yet to be lost by dieting.

[Lord of the Dance]

Not arguing that lifting weights is not the best way to get rid of fat, but two things: 1) I don't want to lose the joy of eating some of my favorites like bread, pasta and red meat. 2) supposing I did have the will power to cut all the good stuff and just lose the fat, I don't want my skin to look like a deflated balloon. 

(went to school with a buddy who was a real big guy and lately he has lost a ton of weight, but his man boobs now look like dead squids).

I figure that if the fat is *slowly* replaced by muscle, the skin won't really 'deflate' too much. Clearly I am an expert in this field and you should all bow to my superior health advice.

 

Listen, weights and physical exercise is good for you for a lot of reasons. Keep it up. You don't have to stop cold turkey or even totally stop eating things that are bad for you. I'd say identify and define your weakness in foods that are bad for you and those that work against your goals. In essence know what it is that you eat. Bread and pasta is processed food and it's bad and fattening for your body. You don't have to stop eating it altogether but you should consider limiting it.

As far as fat is concerned, you can eat all the whole natural meat you wish as long as it isn't processed like MickeyD's chicken nuggets, patties, fries or deep fried anything. Actually it isn't deep fried as much as it is what oil it's fried in, is it processed food? You can fry anything whole (not processed) but do it in a natural oil such as peanut, olive or coconut. Not vegetable, sunflower or other processed oils. You are what you eat is a very true statement. Our bodies were not made for processed foods and man made chemicals. Our bodies do not know how to handle those and store them as fat

+1

[Lord of the Dance]

Lord of The Dance, IMHO, avoiding saggy skin is about moderation. It's unlikely that a normal human is going to replace the bulk of fat with muscle. That's not how most humans are made.

Also as we get older the elasticity of our skin reduces.

For myself, as I have lost weight over the years, on the whole I have not suffered too badly from saggy skin. That's a result of taking 6 or more years to attain my goal.

Also much of the excess skin, in most people, is full of fat and cannot be replaced by muscle. So, bingo wings and tummy aprons, do not sit atop muscle that can ever fill the void left by fat loss.

To make matters worse, the examples we often still full of fat. The excess skin is lost over time as these fat remnants are lost. I can vouch for that from my own experience. Much of the excess skin is just skin filled with fat that has yet to be lost by dieting.

Why you go spurlin' me hopes & dreams man?

haha just kidding Andrew. What you say makes a lot of sense. Still, I'm currently focused more on the fitness aspect of health than the diet and weightless aspect, though in the back of my mind I probably realize the necessity of knocking out those 'less than healthy' choices from my daily intake. I just need some time to say goodbye. 

[Danchik]

The research on diet and exercise is robust these days. And it shouldn't be "weight lifting VS diet" as they go hand and hand.

Much of what we thought was good for us in the 80's when the fitness craze really hit the western world with a vengeance, hasn't stood the test of time.

But, fast forward 40 years and look at all the effects of poor nutrition and refined package garbage, refined/added sugars, process fast food, etc. has done on the western world (especially America)  as well as to today's research and how science has advanced over those 40+ years.

The first piece of advice I give anyone whom asks is to cut down on sugar, period. Refined, and especially modified (added) sugars. Unless you're very active it will be hard to burn all the glucose from your system and of course unused sugar will store as fat as was noted earlier in this thread. It adds up.

Losing weight is not rocket science, just science. You have to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight, period.

The second piece of advice is to start a resistance training program and combine it with cardio (zone 2) 3-4 times a week minimum. Anything less, while still better than nothing, won't really change the game.

Consistency is the name of the game and that's really where you'll see very noticeable results. Mentally, physically, emotionally/psychologically, etc.

I would also include in combination with diet and exercise, heat and cold stress to improve one's quality of life. And don't forget sleep, the foundation that everything else is built.

About 2 years ago I incorporated a heat/sauna ritual followed by a cold shower after my workout routine and they have had wonderful benefits on me.

I understand time and motivation can play a role, but how much do you value living healthy while you're still breathing? Quality of life and all that, you know. IMO, it doesn't take so much time from one's day. 1 hour can be hugely beneficial.

Another thing about diet, fat is good. Eggs (yoke and all), avocados, certain nuts, certain cheeses (I'm partial to parmesan), extra virgin olive oil, fish, etc. are all good choices. There are plenty of healthy and delicious choices to satisfy most appetites.

I could talk for hours about this as it's one of my favourite subjects and a subject I have research quite extensively literally since I was a boy.

Instead I will just give you some of my favourite videos from scientists and doctors that I believe are not only the best in their respective fields, but who are at the cutting edge.

Like I said, the research/science behind this is robust, and I might add, that the research just in the last 5 years has been dramatic. I wish I had some of this information 20 even 30 years ago.

First is Dr Andy Galpin. You can check his credentials on your own, but I can assure you they are quite impressive.

Nutrition and supplementation (creatine is a must, especially after the age of 50). I started using creatine about 8 months ago and the benefits are real and it can help with fat loss as it promotes lean muscle.

New, conclusive research now shows creatine's effect on brain function and its many benefits in that region.

I also have a supplementation routine that includes B vitamins and minerals like zinc, magnesium, K2, etc., as well as a regimen of taurine, NAD (N-acetylcysteine), glycine, vitamin D3, 5g of creatine a day, and cycling herbs like ashwagandha, for example, among others.

Maybe the most in depth, going down the rabbit hole podcast I've seen on the subject. Dr Galpin's knowledge on these subjects is second to none IMO.

One area that has come onto the scene recently and gets ignored by many health enthusiasts is V02max and its importance on health.

My second go to guy is Dr Peter Attia.

He will explain how Zone 2 works, what the benefits are and this video is another deep dive into the subject.

Matter of fact, my 3rd guy, Dr. Andrew Huberman, has a boatload of podcasts that I highly recommend on a variety of subjects including sleep (the absolute foundation point of health), hot and cold stress to the organizism, supplementation, effects of caffeine, creatine and just a slew of other valuable information which I highly recommend taking a look at.

And last but not least, with regards to the science of weightlifting and all its magnificent benefits, my last guy is Jeff Cavaliere a.k.a. Athena-X.

Enjoy.

[Contrarian]

I Agree with the statement it isn't weight lifting versus diet, they go hand in hand.

A cleansing fast would do anyone good, especially those who are overweight. Fasting has been a cure for all manner of ills for thousands of years.

Try doing a juice fast for at least 3 1/2 days. It can be fresh squeezed fruit juices in the morning and carrot with beet and some apple in the afternoon and evenings, supplemented with water of course.

The first day is the most difficult and it gets easier each day. The morning of the 4th day is the best. You feel lighter and your mind is sharper.

Break the fast with some light soup on the 4th day. If Jesus fasted for 40 days, then average humans should be able to fast for 4 days.

IIRC Methodist leaders required fasts of their preachers 40 years ago. Hindu's routinely fast. The Ancient Greeks fasted.

Americans should try getting back to what the Ancient Greeks and so many others have done for thousands of years.

In fact the one good thing about the coming economic collapse being caused by the Biden regime, will be some thinner Americans. 

[2tallbill]

I believe you can look in your garbage can and tell how much garbage you eat.
Is your garbage can full of packages? Then you eat lots of garbage. Is it nearly
empty? Then you cook from scratch. Even our pasta is made from scratch.

[Trenchcoat]

About 2 years ago I incorporated a heat/sauna ritual followed by a cold shower after my workout routine and they have had wonderful benefits on me.

I know of someone who died after such a routine so for him the benefits were not quite so wonderful. The heart got shunted from one extreme to the other and didn't take too well to it. All the capillaries opened up all of a sudden and a heart attack ensued. Goes to show not to take anything too extreme.

[2tallbill]

I had a very serious health scare 1.5 years ago, I started eating better, walked a little more and in
a year and a half have lost more than 25 Kilo's (55 lbs.) I gained it over many years. I lost in over
a year and a half.

[2tallbill]

I know of someone who died after such a routine so for him the benefits were not quite so
wonderful. The heart got shunted from one extreme to the other and didn't take too well
to it. All the capillaries opened up all of a sudden and a heart attack ensued. Goes to show
not to take anything too extreme.

Death from an ice plunge is rare (about 60 per year in the USA) about 25 children drown
every year in buckets. So it's over twice as dangerous as big paint buckets. I don't have the
research but I would wager that nearly all the 60 deaths had underlying heart conditions,
high blood pressure or other significant health problem.

I would also wager that the 25 children were not watched closely when they were drowning.

https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/cold-plunge-benefits-risks/

My advice would be to get some sort of physical before engaging in some sort of highly
intensive new workout or therapy.