Are Russia and China allies or competitors?

[2tallbill]

There has been much made here on the forum about how a Russian/China
partnership will carve out a new world order and the West will wither in squalor
and demise.

Does anyone think that China looks to Russia simply as future Western China?
China greatly covets the minerals and carbon resources in Siberia. Corrupt
governors and Russian politicians have been leasing huge tracts of Siberia
to China for very long periods of time, 49 years and longer.

Russians have never wanted to move to Siberia and the region is largely
unpopulated. China is more than happy to send millions of people to the
area to exploit the resources there.

What say you?

[2tallbill]

Siberia's mineral wealth: Russia has it — China wants it
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/siberias-mineral-wealth-russia-has-it--china-wants-it,16287


Beijing 'eating up' Siberia
by Vladimir Rozanskij
https://www.asianews.it/news-en/Beijing-'eating-up'-Siberia-53500.html


A weakened Russia is China’s windfall
https://asiatimes.com/2022/03/a-weakened-russia-is-chinas-windfall/

[2tallbill]

When Siberia Will Be Chinese

Initially belonging to China, Eastern Siberia became Russian after the defeat of the Middle Kingdom by Nicolas I, in the nineteenth century. Today, as Russia has moved to annex the Crimea will China do the same with Siberia? Some 7 million Russian and 148 million Chinese are living along this border and little by little, the Chinese are crossing over the Amur River to settle on the Russian side.

https://www.amazon.com/When-Siberia-Will-Be-Chinese/dp/B079C5JRKY

[Texan77]

Another big spy ring has been busted in Russia where the Chinese are stealing Russian military secretes. Russia jailed a one of their scientists who had cancer and died a couple of days later in what his family says was caused by a lack of care. The Chinese are wanting to take Russia arms sales business. This is important to Russia because Russia uses the money from arm sales to finance the development of their own weapons. They are allies only in the fact both do not want to see the USA at the top.

[Contrarian]

Sounds to me like China is licking their lips in anticipation of their turn to play the annexation game. 

[Jonas!]

There has been much made here on the forum about how a Russian/China
partnership will carve out a new world order and the West will wither in squalor
and demise.

 

I don't really think the wither in squalor part is realistic.   Suffer a noticeable decrease in standard of living much more likely.

Does anyone think that China looks to Russia simply as future Western China?
China greatly covets the minerals and carbon resources in Siberia. Corrupt
governors and Russian politicians have been leasing huge tracts of Siberia
to China for very long periods of time, 49 years and longer.

Russians have never wanted to move to Siberia and the region is largely
unpopulated. China is more than happy to send millions of people to the
area to exploit the resources there.

What say you?

Leasing land to China seems like a win/win.   


Insofar as the thread title.  At the moment they are allies.   Someday that could change again, but for now the US is driving them closer together. 

Jonas!   

[andrewfi]

An economy or state can be in competition with another economy or state in some areas and market niches while still cooperating in other areas.

The idea of a zero sum situation seems to be a very USAian one that is far less common elsewhere in the world. Of course the zero sum concept is not unique to USAians but it does seem to find a happy home there.

Cultural differences, eh?

For example, upthread was mentioned Siberia. Cooperation there makes a lot of sense. Russia and China can make use of their comparative advantages. (Check an entry level economics book or website if you don't know what that means.)

But the two countries may well compete in other ways. For example, arms sales. But even in armaments, we see cooperation as, again, comparative advantage shows its benefits.

[cufflinks]

Russia has a long history of selling weapons around the globe while leaving their customer states to their own ends whereas China uses their Belt and Road and weapons sales to client states as a means to subjugate them with indebtedness.

We are witnessing peak Russia and China now as both countries demographics are in severe decline dooming their future economic growth.

Russia and China both know for them it's now Do or Die... thus their very aggressive actions at this point in history.


###

[andrewfi]

One has to wonder where some people get their fantasies. Usually it is clear that the fanasists lack the creativity to create their own.

However, it is usually more productive to deal with fact based opinion. Arguing the benefit of one fantasy over another is akin to discussing one's favourite pornography with a random interlocutor.

[cufflinks]

[cufflinks]

[Lon]

(see previous post)

(see previous post)

cufflinks, I have been linking some of Peter Zeihan's vids here.  same topic.
it seems he does not know anything about anything.  and by extension, neither do you.  according to all of our resident experts and oracles   
besides, those vids are much to long.  you are considered lazy unless you do a word for word synopsis for those same experts and oracles.  they do not actually want to do any work or maybe (horrors) see a dissenting opinion.
but I go ahead and post links anyway.  I suppose time will tell.  some of Zeihan's predictions are for the very near future.

[2tallbill]

Russia and China allies or competitors? Poll added

[2tallbill]

We are witnessing peak Russia and China now as both countries demographics are in severe decline dooming their future economic growth.

Russia and China both know for them it's now Do or Die... thus their very aggressive actions at this point in history.

Did/Does China's one child policy figure into the future demographics. Will China need to invade a country to
have women to grow their population with?

[Texan77]

Did/Does China's one child policy figure into the future demographics. Will China need to invade a country to
have women to grow their population with?

What I think happened was something unplanned for. This is the increase of the life span. It was thought at the time a smaller population would actually make a stronger nation as there would not be so many people living in poverty. What was not accounted for was for China to have so many retired people that would not have enough population to support them   

Most white and Asian populations have this problem to some degree and there seems to be few answers for it. There are some people who think the real reason for the tensions between the west and China and Russia are the expected effects population decline. Nobody wants to have a lot less, but that is most likely to happen in most of the developed world. At some point in time the hope is new technology may off set this problem and countries will be able to deal with population decline without going broke or abandoning the elderly.

[BC]

Did/Does China's one child policy figure into the future demographics. Will China need to invade a country to
have women to grow their population with?

IIRC that policy ended a while back.

[andrewfi]

Yes, it was starting to as far back as 2001. The ending of the program was gradual.

[B.B.]

Did/Does China's one child policy figure into the future demographics. Will China need to invade a country to
have women to grow their population with?

IIRC that policy ended a while back.

Yes, but they may have gone past the tipping point.

B/B

[2tallbill]

IIRC that policy ended a while back.

Yes, it ended. In 2015 China began allowing families to
have two children. Only very recently have birth restrictions
be removed entirely.

During the time it was in place there were a number of
unintended consequences. Including massive numbers
of abortions of babies that were female. The true impact
of these policies is still being analyzed and debated.

[Contrarian]

Did/Does China's one child policy figure into the future demographics. Will China need to invade a country to
have women to grow their population with?

IIRC that policy ended a while back.

Yes, but they may have gone past the tipping point.

B/B

Perhaps they could take a few black-radical Marxists off of our hands from BLM and take the entire Bolshevik Biden apparatus with them,
in order to make some new part Chinese-part whatever future kids to replenish their ranks!

Commies don't really care about the race of their future victims, do they?

[Markje]

I voted for both competitors and allies.

Military and economicly they are allies. But where resources and technology is concerned, they are competitors.

Mark.

[andrewfi]

Hmm...
The one child policy was being modified from the mid 80s. By the time I was there, it did not apply to a large part of the population, by recollection a majority of the people were no longer covered.

But yeah lack of knowledge + prejudice = faulty conclusions.

[Steveboy]

Life would be much better in the Uk if they also had a one child policy ..

The amount of slappers in the UK with 4/5/6 kids all on the social.. all have no idea who the father is..

[Manny]

Russia and China both know for them it's now Do or Die...

The influence in the world is changing. The US is a dying empire. It's going down kicking, screaming and lashing out as I always predicted, but it and the dollar are dying. All empires die.

Russia and China will fill the void and the world will become multipolar as Putin always predicted. 

China and Russia have different objectives. Where they coincide, they will co-operate. Where they don't, they will try to get along and please everyone and not start a war as the US usually does. Agree to differ and try not to step on each other's interests is the way to go. Like good neighbours.

The US will remain an important, but regional power. One of several, no longer the only kid on the block.

[Texan77]

Russia and China will fill the void and the world will become multipolar as Putin always predicted. 

Yea, you and Putin both thought the war would be over in a couple of weeks or less.  Maybe you should try a new method of predicting beside RT news and Russian propaganda.