V-22 Down in Norway

[Lord of the Dance]

Looks like the US Marines lost a V-22 Osprey vertical-liftoff airplane (tilt-rotor) during a NATO training exercise in Norway. Four are confirmed dead. They're saying that this was just a standard exercise, but I'm not sure I agree. I think the US war machine smells blood in the water and they're gearing up. Here in rural Pennsylvania a group of C-130 transports just ripped up the river valley yesterday... probably working to move 'the goods' into Central Europe.

https://news.usni.org/2022/03/18/officials-marine-mv-22b-crashes-in-arctic-norway-rescue-teams-unable-to-reach-crash-site-by-air

[Contrarian]

Looks like the US Marines lost a V-22 Osprey vertical-liftoff airplane (tilt-rotor) during a NATO training exercise in Norway. Four are confirmed dead. They're saying that this was just a standard exercise, but I'm not sure I agree. I think the US war machine smells blood in the water and they're gearing up. Here in rural Pennsylvania a group of C-130 transports just ripped up the river valley yesterday... probably working to move 'the goods' into Central Europe.

https://news.usni.org/2022/03/18/officials-marine-mv-22b-crashes-in-arctic-norway-rescue-teams-unable-to-reach-crash-site-by-air

RIP four Marines.

[AvHdB]

This is part of a long planned training exercise of NATO. Oddly enough Russia was invited to observe. They declined, pity they might have learned a thing or two.

Mechanical military equipment will fail, when it involves aircraft it has fatal outcomes usually.

To those who lost loved ones my condolences.

[Manny]

I just looked up the reported location of the crash, its here. Not very far from Russia, but not on the doorstep.

When this was first reported, the chatter on Twitter said it was right on the Russian border and they took it down. That might be just speculation.

What I did see noted was the USMC in their statement said "a helicopter crash in Norway" and Norway said "a training exercise far from Russia" without actually saying where.

Maybe nothing in it. 

[andrewfi]

I am sure that training exercises right now have additional import.

But there's no win for the Russians to have shot down the aircraft unless it was over Russian territory.

Accidents happen.

The only way that this might be attributable to U.S offensive action is if the deaths occurred elsewhere but were attributed to an incident in Norway. This is a tactic that has been used in the past to cover deaths in covert actions. But it is a costly way to burn a useful aircraft.

[Lord of the Dance]

Yeah I don't think there's a chance in hell that Russia had a thing to do with this crash, and perhaps this really was a totally scheduled exercise, but what I am suggesting is that a bunch of Western soldiers (especially US service members) have their panties in a bunch and are gearing up for action.

I got a chance to poke in and around a V-22 Osprey this past summer up in Oshkosh. It's a remarkable machine and a true feat of engineering, but it's a tricky SOB to master and if the aircrew aboard this one was too busy playing 'war games' some nasty weather comes up, bam, they're done. Of course the first job of any pilot is to aviate and I think these guys lost sight of that main goal.

I'm just speculating on all this stuff... I really don't know what to think anymore. Remember when RT was going to become inaccessible? I can still read articles no problem. McDonalds is closing, but yet people are saying they're still open for business. Zelensky has done several interviews on CNN... that's weird to me. Where's an embattled, wartime president getting all this time to sit down and video chat with the press (and politicians)? He wants Ukraine in NATO, then he doesn't. Oh wait, now he's back to yes! Nope, nevermind. The nuclear power plant is melting down! No it isn't!! YES IT IS!!!

From the overwhelming amount of footage coming out of Ukraine I think it's reasonable to assume that the place is getting destroyed and a lot of people are dying. But how many, on what side, etc? I think Russia is lying, Ukraine is lying, the US is lying, China is lying, the press is lying. Maybe I'm lying! 

I just want this to be over (although I'm sure not as bad as those who are actually there). Glad I didn't get over there, buy an apartment, etc. just yet.

[AJ]

Nato troops are doing  ongoing exercises, and certainly would also be on high security alert.
Accidents happen, I doubt it was anything other  than that.

Look at the number of semi regular accidents off cherry point ,NC or pendleton/oceanside.

[Lord of the Dance]

Nato troops are doing  ongoing exercises, and certainly would also be on high security alert.
Accidents happen, I doubt it was anything other  than that.

Look at the number of semi regular accidents off cherry point ,NC or pendleton/oceanside.

A schoolmate of mine who went into the airforce and ended up down at Shaw lost a good friend to an F-16 crash back in 2020. You're right, accidents do happen, but when a V-22 goes down it's a bigger deal than an F-16. Thankfully it wasn't a troop transport. Back in 2000 or thereabouts an Osprey went down carrying over a dozen troops and they all perished. It's a dangerous machine, but it's range and transport capabilities, coupled with its VTOL capabilities make it an indispensable aircraft to support the battlefield. Not everyone knows this, but it can fold its wings and rotor blades for carrier storage.

[Lord of the Dance]

Terrible news!

We've lost another V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor. This one domestically in the state of Maryland. Two crew members have been rescued, one is still missing. I see the end of this aircraft's history in sight.

https://shoredailynews.com/headlines/navy-plane-crashes-on-chincoteague-causeway/

[Lon]

I see the end of this aircraft's history in sight.
https://shoredailynews.com/headlines/navy-plane-crashes-on-chincoteague-causeway/

I do not
unless you have access to hours flown per type,  it would be nearly impossible to determine if this airplane type has a high accident rate.  that would be one of the reasons the aircraft could be removed from flying status, high hours would be another reason

this is a very high performance aircraft that can be flown in marginal conditions.  be it weather or night.  many times it will also be flown at the edge of the envelope.
and finally, low hour crew.

[rosco]

I see the end of this aircraft's history in sight.
https://shoredailynews.com/headlines/navy-plane-crashes-on-chincoteague-causeway/

I do not
unless you have access to hours flown per type,  it would be nearly impossible to determine if this airplane type has a high accident rate.  that would be one of the reasons the aircraft could be removed from flying status, high hours would be another reason

this is a very high performance aircraft that can be flown in marginal conditions.  be it weather or night.  many times it will also be flown at the edge of the envelope.
and finally, low hour crew.

Yea that's what accident investigations are for. If it's proven to be human error, they might modify training but they wouldn't decommission a perfectly good aircraft because of a few accidents.

[Lord of the Dance]

So you guys really don't believe that this chronic rash of crashes coupled with Bell's new V-280 Valor program isn't going to end the Osprey? Admittedly the V-280 is slightly smaller, but if they can keep the costs lower than the V-22 program (shouldn't be hard given the bank-breaking finances of the Osprey) and maintain even a moderately higher safety record, the lesser disposable load can be compensated by an increased fleet size (which also provides for greater deployment flexibility and mission-specific platform diversity).

Time will tell, but I'm not optimistic about the V-22's future when its past is plagued by incidents and its future is looking more and more like a battle between the antiquated and the continually evolving. The powered-lift category is rather new in the grand scheme of things, but the V-22 has played an important role in the development of tomorrow's tilt-rotors.

[Lon]

I was looking at this wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_V-22_Osprey
it seems as the last accident that the V-22 was involved in was 2017

the V-280 is a much smaller aircraft, about half the size, carrying 14 troopers (14,000kg mto), the V-22 24-32 troopers (21,500kg mto)
it might be a replacement, considering that the military has been downsizing to smaller unit force projection.  my thoughts are that they will be flying along side each other for a
number of years

[Lord of the Dance]

I was looking at this wiki page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_V-22_Osprey
it seems as the last accident that the V-22 was involved in was 2017

the V-280 is a much smaller aircraft, about half the size, carrying 14 troopers (14,000kg mto), the V-22 24-32 troopers (21,500kg mto)
it might be a replacement, considering that the military has been downsizing to smaller unit force projection.  my thoughts are that they will be flying along side each other for a
number of years

Yeah, I would agree that the V-22 isn't going to disappear tomorrow, but it just seems to me that it's a 20th century dream machine trying to survive in the 21st century landscape. My understanding is that the V-280 Valor is being considered as as long-term replacement to the UH-60 BlackHawk - we'll see about that too (I'm still skeptical).

[Lord of the Dance]

Terrible news!

We've lost another V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor. This one domestically in the state of Maryland. Two crew members have been rescued, one is still missing. I see the end of this aircraft's history in sight.

https://shoredailynews.com/headlines/navy-plane-crashes-on-chincoteague-causeway/

So I've got to eat some dirt here.

Turns out this was false reporting! It wasn't a V-22 Osprey that crashed the other night, it was an E-2D Hawkeye radar plane that went down near the coastal border of Maryland and Virginia. Two of the three crew members survived and one perished. Some news outlets are still saying that it's confirmed to be a V-22 but this appears to be incorrect.

There's no doubt about it, you can't trust journalists anymore, and that's too bad.

[Lon]

....but it just seems to me that it's a 20th century dream machine trying to survive in the 21st century landscape.

My understanding is that the V-280 Valor is being considered as as long-term replacement to the UH-60 BlackHawk - we'll see about that too (I'm still skeptical).

of course we could say the same thing about the B-52, U-2, F-15, F-16 and a few other planes to numerous to list.  to include a few non-american aircraft 

in the intervening years computer power and materials science has made big leaps forward between the V-22 and the V-280.  I think that the limiting factor will be less the aircraft capabilities and more cost/budget.

[Lord of the Dance]

....but it just seems to me that it's a 20th century dream machine trying to survive in the 21st century landscape.

My understanding is that the V-280 Valor is being considered as as long-term replacement to the UH-60 BlackHawk - we'll see about that too (I'm still skeptical).

of course we could say the same thing about the B-52, U-2, F-15, F-16 and a few other planes to numerous to list.  to include a few non-american aircraft 

in the intervening years computer power and materials science has made big leaps forward between the V-22 and the V-280.  I think that the limiting factor will be less the aircraft capabilities and more cost/budget.

The C-130 is another 'old boy' still in the game. Yes, cost and budget will certainly play the biggest role in what stays and what goes. But I would add that good designs have a way of standing the test of time regardless of their budget weight. As they say, time will tell.

[Lord of the Dance]

8 service members were recently killed in an Osprey crash off the coast of Japan. I maintain that this is a dangerous aircraft, despite its incredible capabilities.

https://apnews.com/article/osprey-crash-grounded-japan-air-force-920c0ad16e005adbb0ff22548d7b11c4

[Manny]

There surely must be common denominators emerging by now you'd think.