Corruption in Russia and Ukraine

[msmoby]

[Mod note: split from another topic]

Hmm,

Our Conor seems to have had an entirely different experience than I when in Kiev... and I've been going there since 2003.

I've NEVER had a Policeman try to tap me up for a bribe... 

 

[Manny]

I've NEVER had a Policeman try to tap me up for a bribe...

Maybe they thought you were a vagrant.

It's quite routine in the second world.

[msmoby]

I've NEVER had a Policeman try to tap me up for a bribe...

Maybe they thought you were a vagrant.

Ah yes, because Ukrainian 'vagrants' wore Paul Smith, carried Mulberry briefcases and wore Barkers Brogues  ...

You being such and 'expert' on Ukraine in the mid to late 'noughties' and 'deccies' ..

I'd be VERY wary of Conor's 'advice' based on my experience ..  Back then I was visiting Kiev ( from Cyprus) every other weekend..

[Danchik]

I've been to Ukraine on numerous occasions and never had any problem with bribes. My "bribes" mostly consisted of getting something done more expeditiously or gaining easy access to place and/or commodity.

Bribes in Russia have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur, but every now and then a few rubles can get you out of an unnecessary situation or access to what you need.

I've NEVER had a Policeman try to tap me up for a bribe...

Maybe they thought you were a vagrant.

It’s quite routine in the second world.

Reminds of the last time I was shaken down a few years ago about a 100 meters from my apt building. It was late at night and I was returning home after a long day. As I mostly take taxis at this time because traffic isn't a problem (taxis are ridiculously cheap in Russia even in Moscow), I nevertheless thought I'd save a few rubles and take the metro as I always have my Тройка available just in case.

As I was walking to my flat a patrol car pulled up and the nice officer riding shotgun jumped out and asked for my documents while his partner drove down the side street to my place to grab a couple of Tajiks walking there.

When the nice officer noticed I didn't have my registration with me it was game on for a bribe. As I normally play stupid with my Russian in these situations, I pretended that I didn't understand what he was talking about. In the meantime, his partner returned with the 2 Tajiks. As I overheard what they officers were saying to each other (the Tajiks didn't have their docs nor any money with them), they decided to let the Tajiks go and focused on me, you know the "rich American" .

He gestured to me to get in the back seat of the patrol car and proceeded to show me the Russian law for not having your registration with you from the code book he pulled from the glove compartment and began tell me how bad the situation was for me . I don't think he completely believed I didn't know any Russian, but I continued to play along anyway.

Now I could have gone to the station and sat with these nice chaps until their supervisor came and asked them WTF they were doing and to let me go since in reality it would have been more paperwork for them to do than it was worth, however, I decided to "expedite" the situation being that I was way too tired to sit until the wee hours when the supervisor came.

There really isn't a fine for not having your registration with you (as I read), just a warning, but you really, as a foreigner, don't want to have your name on file for any reason. Yes, I could have argued my case, but since I had already established I didn't speak Russian and the guys typically patrol the same area and I didn't want to have a problem with them in the future I flipped them 500ru (the smallest note I had on me) and they were on their way.

Ah, just like old times. 

[andrewfi]

Of course, there's always the foreigner abroad, the one who wants to jump the queue, get better service - whatever. He's heard that there's this thing called a bribe so he starts passing round wads of cash to al and sundry. All the sensible people are happy to take his money, smile nicely at the twat, give him what he'd have gotten anyway and get on with life.

In many parts of the world, these small payments are called tips. People with an agenda call them bribes.

[msmoby]

I've been to Ukraine on numerous occasions and never had any problem with bribes. My "bribes" mostly consisted of getting something done more expeditiously or gaining easy access to place and/or commodity.

Bribes in Russia have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur, but every now and then a few rubles can get you out of an unnecessary situation or access to what you need.

This is why Danchik and I seem to differ ..

If anything the bribe culture is worse in Russia.. and more sophisticated ... it would appear that it is franchised from the top, down.

If you have a car registered in Russia and drive - you'll see this first hand ...

1/ Alleged fail 'drink and drive' test  ...

Moby response -:"take me to the the station and take my blood"  ..   

New offer "then pay us a fine" ,

my counter "see you in Court" ... SC then asked to sit in the police car and 'warned' I should not drive when over the limit ...  We become friendly with the same Policemen and see them stopping folk in the same spot when walking back from the beach, regularly discussing football ( soccer )

2/ Driving in Adler - Stopped for an 'illegal left turn' - no road / sign suggesting 'illegality',

says Policeman when he catches up   - "everyone knows"   

Moby:   "I am not everyone, I am not local"   

Policeman  using, Google translate .." Your permit is suspended" ...

Moby handing over UK plastic drivers licence : " Here's my licence, I'll order a replacement from the UK, later today and have it DHL'd "..   

Policeman: "Why are you smiling, this is serious?"

Moby: "so give me a ticket and I'll come to Court to defend myself  - are you going to dare to ask me for a bribe to make this go away? ... I will not pay, I have done nothing illegal "

Policeman: "What are you doing here ? We would not ask for a bribe" ?

Moby:  "I'm  here at your region's invitation - pls see my ( 'illegal' - according to some Muppets here) visa ..   

Policeman: "What are you doing in Adler?"

Moby: "I'm helping with the English version of the Sochi Autrodrom website for Formula ( What they call F1) ".. 

Policeman: "Oh, can you get us free tickets ?"


Needless to say, he got no tickets and I got no 'fine'


3/ SC's been tapped several times when I've not been present - so have friends ...



4/ Then there's the "You're using illegal software scam "  where companies get raided - and if the company tells the Police to "go away and come back with a warrant  " the police return with said warrant and 'find' Microsoft Office fro Windows (on ancient non gui Linux PCs   ?) and tell a 1C accounting dealer they have pirated software ..1C software... ?!

Some PCs are taken away as 'evidence' and when it comes to Court it comes out that they were allegedly  'running Windows 10 ( 'illegally'  of course) as well as the windows version of MS Office and 'unlicensed 1C'..    The PCs are 2004 vintage and quite incapable of running those MS programs ...


The case is thrown out, the PCs returned but 1 charge of 'failing to declare licensed software was being used' - even though 10 licences were issued by 1C free of charge was upheld as a minor form of 'Piracy'..


When Danchik suggests he 'knows' Russia, I can only suggest he doesn't drive in Russia or operate a business ..

As a foreigner, these things are hidden from sight .... Russians know..

I drove across half of European Russia and got flagged a few times ( 'stop to check' ), but the moment they clocked my non FSU plates ( tags)  and I spoke English, I was waved on ... often before I opened my gob or even before I stopped...

As a pedestrian, I have never, had 'hassle' from a UA/ RU policeman - other than at Volgograd airport - when the Policeman on security tried to tell me my." Visa was not in order " and need 5k Roubles - in 2004 that was some bribe and I left it with the lady I was visiting and used my other passport - in those days ( one could have overlapping visas) and popped on the plane before he realised ..


My host's son was ( and is)  a policeman in the force and got the money and the passport back .... 

I have found UA / RU police helpful - example - when SC got fined 2k roubles for failing to register me within 24 hours during the Confederation Cup  Tournament of 2017  ... 

[usual idiotic huge space at the bottom removed]

[Manny]

I used to bribe the odd traffic cop when stopped speeding in Poland, Latvia or Lithuania. But then I realised there's not much they can do to a foreigner. Ask them to write out the official ticket instead and most will just let you go as they're lazy. If you do get an official ticket, I've always ignored them as there was no enforcement with British registered cars.

I was stopping speeding in Russia once. My wife stopped me bribing him and made him write out a ticket instead. The ticket was less than the bribe would have been.

[Steveboy]

It is getting harder and harder and harder to bribe any cop in Russia now.. traffic cops? try it.. if you speak no Russian you may find yourself banged up and deported!

We were out with a friend the other week and got stopped for going through a red light ,, cops pulled us over and after my friend spoke to him in Russian explaining there was no web cam or camera on the car the police officer finally took a bribe instead of issuing a ticket..

If you know a few people in the FSB or something you can still get a few things done..like a vehicle accident erased from any records.. it never happened..

[Steveboy]

I used to bribe the odd traffic cop when stopped speeding in Poland, Latvia or Lithuania. But then I realised there’s not much they can do to a foreigner. Ask them to write out the official ticket instead and most will just let you go as they’re lazy. If you do get an official ticket, I’ve always ignored them as there was no enforcement with British registered cars.

I was stopping speeding in Russia once. My wife stopped me bribing him and made him write out a ticket instead. The ticket was less than the bribe would have been.

My wife stopped me bribing him and made him write out a ticket instead. The ticket was less than the bribe would have been.. Not recommended! 3 off those and you have a good chance of being denied entry to Russia at the border.. you will not know till you get there..

[msmoby]

I used to bribe the odd traffic cop when stopped speeding in Poland, Latvia or Lithuania. But then I realised there’s not much they can do to a foreigner. Ask them to write out the official ticket instead and most will just let you go as they’re lazy. If you do get an official ticket, I’ve always ignored them as there was no enforcement with British registered cars.

I realise you used the past test, but the Poles have been finding non Poles on the spot and indisting on payment for the last decade...

I was done  near  the PL-LT border in Nov 2017.

We were escorted to the nearest Hole in the wall and an official receipt issued.

[Steveboy]

I've NEVER had a Policeman try to tap me up for a bribe...

Maybe they thought you were a vagrant.

Ah yes, because Ukrainian 'vagrants' wore Paul Smith, carried Mulberry briefcases and wore Barkers Brogues  ...

You being such and 'expert' on Ukraine in the mid to late 'noughties' and 'deccies' ..

I'd be VERY wary of Conor's 'advice' based on my experience ..  Back then I was visiting Kiev ( from Cyprus) every other weekend..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Barker-Northampton-mens-tan-shoes-size-10-G/124142816655?hash=item1ce77d0d8f:g:oqAAAOSwdHNeidg-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAUL-SMITH-MENS-M-15-5-38-40-TOP-DESIGNER-SLIM-FIT-ZEBRA-BADGE-POLO-SHIRT/333562716982?hash=item4da9e32336:g:eBwAAOSwRERegjRo

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/black-suit-case-travel-bag-made-buy-IT/313048031292?hash=item48e31de03c:g:iEkAAOSwkaNeP9b9

 

[msmoby]

Ah yes, because Ukrainian 'vagrants' wore Paul Smith, carried Mulberry briefcases and wore Barkers Brogues  ...



V ( RU wife #1) didn't like my Tweedy Jackets, brogues, etc and I came home one day to find she'd given them to a f'n charity shop ! She give some clothes of hers away, too ))

When I pointed out she'd turfed out about 4£k worth of clothes, her response was, "well we have space to buy clothes we'll wear"  ( Oe doesn't need to wear such clothes much in CY )

The Paul Smith gear was not t shirts .... fitted trousers 32" waist - I was then up to 34" ( Step-son didn't want them ) and shirts - long sleeved .. My chest had 'grown', too !

ALL was bought new ..

Funny thing is, Steveboy.. I DO buy some clothes in Charity Shops, but I didn't then

I have five pairs of Brogues (again) Black (2) Brown(2) dk and tan and 1 x Salmon coloured - all new ...


God, I miss those Harris tweed jackets ....  V referred to them as too 'old-fashioned'

 

[msmoby]

Further:

You DO understand what a briefcase looks like ... you posted a suitcase

This was a proper leather briefcase, black .. a present from my sister ..  She refuses to buy Mulberry, now and it is not 'British' ... )

[Olga_Mouse]

Ah yes, because Ukrainian 'vagrants' wore Paul Smith, carried Mulberry briefcases and wore Barkers Brogues...

Though I am - because of the job I'm doing - quite "brand-aware", none of the 3 brands you've named above says anything to me.

A RU/UA cop might identify Hermes, Escada, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Armani, Versace, Dolce & Gabana, Philipp Plein - but not the labels you've named, Moby 

[msmoby]

Ah yes, because Ukrainian 'vagrants' wore Paul Smith, carried Mulberry briefcases and wore Barkers Brogues...

Though I am - because of the job I'm doing - quite "brand-aware", none of the 3 brands you've named above says anything to me.

A RU/UA cop might identify Hermes, Escada, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Armani, Versace, Dolce & Gabana, Philipp Plein - but not the labels you've named, Moby 

Hello, Miss Mouse!

I was not a clothes house for vulgar brands one could buy in an outlet))

[Markje]

Ah yes, because Ukrainian 'vagrants' wore Paul Smith, carried Mulberry briefcases and wore Barkers Brogues  ...

I've never heard of all those brands. I'm guessing neither have Ukrainian cops

Looking like a vagrant can be done no matter which brand of clothes you wear

I'm strolling around in Ukraine, yet I've been stopped only once for running a red light (yes, it was there.... in a tree behind leaves).

Its all in my roadtrip too.

[Manny]

Looking like a vagrant can be done no matter which brand of clothes you wear

Indeed.

A RU/UA cop might identify Hermes, Escada, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Armani, Versace, Dolce & Gabana

I suspect that will be the reason wifey was once apprehended entering Russia. They had no luck with getting a bribe though.