How long can you sustain a conversation with someone who's not your gf/spouse?

[justadude]

When I meet someone either online or in person, I find that I am not very good at sustaining a conversation for more than 2-3 days. In fact, if I meet someone and do not go on a first date within 3-4 days of the first contact, the likelyhood of ever meeting is almost zero. Nevertheless, I hear from other people that they might meet someone online and carry on what amounts to a cyber relationship for a couple of weeks and even months in some cases. If I have met in person and engaged in couple-ish behavior I have been able to sustain a relationship for a few months, although even this is difficult. I can only think of one significant exception to this in my life. I had a conversation with the first girl that I got a fiancé visa for that lasted for over 3 weeks before we first met. 

If you can do this, how do you do it?

Have you ever sustained a conversation with a woman for over a month and actually met in person? Follow up question: Did it result in a relationship?

[BillyB]

I've communicated with some ladies for over a month. Sometimes I'll decide to visit them or sometimes it fizzes out. Sometimes I visit them and it'll end in a relationship, sometimes not. Got to be ready to walk away if it's not a good match.

[Steveboy]

I had conversations online with my wife for 5 months before we met!!  In fact she started working for me kinda off after 2 months..

I wouldn't usually wait so long to meet anyone.. but the previous year I was in Russia nearly every month and work was getting peed off with me taking time off.. when I first spoke to my wife I couldn't get time off and was at some shitty job and needed the money.. so had no choice but to delay meeting!

If you click with a person and both have something in common it's pretty easy to chat .. I was chatting to. my wife morning day and night! for months..

The vast majority of men have very little to say other than "how are you" a few more boring small sentences and all done..

Put some life into your conversations for christ sake!

[andrewfi]

Ask questions, listen to answers. Share information about facts and attitudes. Disagree about some things, agree about others.
Be an interesting interlocutor.

If you are not interested in each other it dies quickly. If things go well then communication becomes second nature. The meeting becomes a continuation of the previous communications.

Most initial contacts go nowhere, just as in real life.

[Guile]

well if you are talking foreign girls it depends partly on how good their English is and your Russian.  I've talked to girls who spoke very little English but it was a pain, alot of translating and it slows things down.  best if they speak some English at least.

Longest ever was 4 years! I finally met this girl but she is married with kids now.  Was single when we talked and I never had time to meet up with her while I was in Russia.  She's from a small city.  Mainly just online messages and Skype once in a while.

With Skype and Whatsapp you can maintain communication. Of course it helps if you say you will be meeting them shortly.

[Contrarian]

I had conversations online with my wife for 5 months before we met!!  In fact she started working for me kinda off after 2 months..

I wouldn't usually wait so long to meet anyone.. but the previous year I was in Russia nearly every month and work was getting peed off with me taking time off.. when I first spoke to my wife I couldn't get time off and was at some shitty job and needed the money.. so had no choice but to delay meeting!

If you click with a person and both have something in common it's pretty easy to chat .. I was chatting to. my wife morning day and night! for months..

The vast majority of men have very little to say other than "how are you" a few more boring small sentences and all done..

Put some life into your conversations for christ sake!

Well said Steve!

[2tallbill]

Ask questions, listen to answers. Share information about facts and attitudes. Disagree about some things, agree about others.
Be an interesting interlocutor.

If you are not interested in each other it dies quickly. If things go well then communication becomes second nature. The meeting becomes a continuation of the previous communications.

Most initial contacts go nowhere, just as in real life.

Exactly!

[2tallbill]

I can only think of one significant exception to this in my life. I had a conversation with the first girl that I got a fiancé visa for that lasted for over 3 weeks before we first met. 

If you can do this, how do you do it?

Have you ever sustained a conversation with a woman for over a month and actually met in person? Follow up question: Did it result in a relationship?

I am in sales and I spend time in conversations professionally to determine
all sorts of things and I've gotten pretty good at it over the years. Relationships
aren't different.

What is the purpose of the conversation(s)?

Aren't you trying to determine if this person is a good match? If so then
you've gotta ask her a million questions and she has to ask a million as
well. DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING! Ask her instead.

There are a HUGE number of women who are totally unsuited to be the
Future Mrs________________ (your name here). You really want to make
sure that you find an excellent woman and a good match.

Start with easy stuff
Does she cry during movies? Can she tell stories? Jokes? What are her
favorite foods, books, artists, movies, ballet, songs, historical figures?
hobbies etc

Move on to important stuff
What drives her nuts? What drives you nuts?
Kids, spanking or the corner or something else?
Roles, who does what in a relationship?
What are her goals?
Kids, at least 6 more or never again?
What goes in the refrigerator, what goes in the cupboards?

How are existing children disciplined? Who does it?
What if her child talks back to you? or refuses to follow directions?

Pets? I know of people who would let a dog get in their bed and even
inside the covers or lick their faces. Other people would never ever allow
that. It might be a good idea to find out where they are with that.
Does a child sleep with in the parents bed? or room?

What are the rules about arguments?

Listen intently on the answers, look at her face, her eyes, her body language.
What makes you happy/unhappy? What makes her happy/unhappy?
What was the last thing she cried about? Who was her last argument with?
What happened? Why?

Not for first conversations/discussions but
Sex, lights on or off? Frequency? Grooming preferences, does
she sleep with flannel pj's and 4 pairs of socks or naked or
something in between?


You should want to know everything about this girl or DUMP HER and move on.

[NS1]

I believe communication is key to any long term success.
But I also believe compatibility is equally important.
Some things can be asked and answered, some have to be done in person.

Love is only one aspect and in long term relationships, not likely the key ingredient.
Trust, Mutual goals, hobbies with a healthy respect to each doing a bit of their own thing.
Lifestyles and habits play a big part.

If you can't communicate this stuff early, end it move on, why book a trip to see
how real it might be if nothing clicks.

[justadude]

I can only think of one significant exception to this in my life. I had a conversation with the first girl that I got a fiancé visa for that lasted for over 3 weeks before we first met. 

If you can do this, how do you do it?

Have you ever sustained a conversation with a woman for over a month and actually met in person? Follow up question: Did it result in a relationship?

I am in sales and I spend time in conversations professionally to determine
all sorts of things and I've gotten pretty good at it over the years. Relationships
aren't different.

What is the purpose of the conversation(s)?

Aren't you trying to determine if this person is a good match? If so then
you've gotta ask her a million questions and she has to ask a million as
well. DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING! Ask her instead.

There are a HUGE number of women who are totally unsuited to be the
Future Mrs________________ (your name here). You really want to make
sure that you find an excellent woman and a good match.

Start with easy stuff
Does she cry during movies? Can she tell stories? Jokes? What are her
favorite foods, books, artists, movies, ballet, songs, historical figures?
hobbies etc

Move on to important stuff
What drives her nuts? What drives you nuts?
Kids, spanking or the corner or something else?
Roles, who does what in a relationship?
What are her goals?
Kids, at least 6 more or never again?
What goes in the refrigerator, what goes in the cupboards?

How are existing children disciplined? Who does it?
What if her child talks back to you? or refuses to follow directions?

Pets? I know of people who would let a dog get in their bed and even
inside the covers or lick their faces. Other people would never ever allow
that. It might be a good idea to find out where they are with that.
Does a child sleep with in the parents bed? or room?

What are the rules about arguments?

Listen intently on the answers, look at her face, her eyes, her body language.
What makes you happy/unhappy? What makes her happy/unhappy?
What was the last thing she cried about? Who was her last argument with?
What happened? Why?

Not for first conversations/discussions but
Sex, lights on or off? Frequency? Grooming preferences, does
she sleep with flannel pj's and 4 pairs of socks or naked or
something in between?


You should want to know everything about this girl or DUMP HER and move on.

This is a great list!

[justadude]

OK this might seem pretty juvenile but I am trying to be scientific about this. I recently "met" a Kievian on FB. She is in her late 30s. She was the friend of another Ukrainian FB friend. I sent her a friend request which she accepted right away. Once again, the conversation seems to have died after a couple days. For those of you who are successful with this sort of thing I'm hoping for a critique. Here is a transcript:

Me: Hi from California. I'm xxxxx
Her: Thumbs up. Hi. I live in Kiev. I'm xxxxx
Me: I think it is a nice city. I was there in 2017 for 6 weeks
Her: Thumbs up.
Me: I am coming back to Ukraine around Christmas
Her: Thumbs up.
Me: It is about 10:30 for you? What are your plans for this Sunday? It looks like you have nice weather today
Her: I am currently in xxxxx, here it is 9.36. Smiley face
Me: Are you enjoying your trip?
Her: Yes. Of course. I like very much xxxx
Me: I typed the above in English. Then I used Google Translate for this phrase in English: I think you are sweet and I like your sense of humor. A video of people falling is always funny for me as long as no one gets hurt
Я думаю, что вы мила, и мне нравится ваше чувство юмора. Видео падения людей всегда смешно для меня, пока никто не пострадает
Her: Thumbs up.
Me: I used google translate so I hope that came out right. smiley face
Her: Thumbs up. Yes.
Me: Good. I should put more effort into learning Russian.
Her: Why?
Me: I like Germany also. I have four German cars. My father was German
Her: Thumbs Up.
Me: I am considering moving to Ukraine. What do you like about Germany?
Her: for permanent residence? Kiev?
Me: Yes. I would consider Kiev but I am more interested in Lvov or Ivano-Frankivsk. But I think for Lvov I should learn Ukrainian language instead of Russian. Is this true?
Her: In Germany I like everything! People, environment, nature, rivers, lakes...
Me: The cars? smile face. The alps? I like the German Alps.
Her. Yes, for Lvov it's really better to learn the Ukrainian language.
Me: I see. How long will you stay in Germany?
Her: mountains...I love mountains, it is insanely beautiful. I was in Austria.
Me: Very nice
Her: Thumbs up.

[justadude]

Me: I live in the mountains of California. Near xxxx. Have you heard of xxxx?
Her: Way cool!!!! Thumbs up (x3)
Me: I think I want to visit bukovel also. Have you been there? It looks pretty in the pictures I have seen.
Her: Maybe you have viber or whatsapp? I think it's more convenient to talk there.
Me: I use Whatsapp
Her: +380xxxxxxxxx. no, I am citizen of Ukraine, but I saw little in her. I see more beyond her. 3 emojis indicating uncertainty.

Conversation moves to WhatsApp

Me: Hi
Her: Hi.
Me: Would you like to visit California?
Her: Of course.
Me: Maybe some day you can. I think much of Europe is interesting
Her:
возможно
Me: It was "maybe" in Russian.

I'll summarize a bit: We exchanged some pictures of where we are now. I sent her pictures of my dogs. She loved the pictures of where I live and my dogs. She sent kisses to my dogs. I described my dog's name and she sent a smiley face. Then I didn't send another message until the next day, today.

Me: How is your day so far?
Her: Normal. You?
Me: It's pretty good. I am at work. I did not tell you about my work. I am a math professor. But I am starting a new career as a xxxx. Are you working in Germany?
Her: no I'm visiting. Thumbs up (6x) to math professor
Me: Cool. I have visited Frankfurt and Stuttgart. But I didn't stay very long
Her: I have been to many cities in Germany.


That ended  7 hours ago. I don't really have any ideas about where to go from here. I guess I'm afraid that if I talk every day I will run out of things to discuss. And I'm afraid of making more mistakes.

So those of you experts, what would you do differently?

[Manny]

Ask more about her, open questions, things that she cannot answer a thumbs up to. Make it less about you and more about her. 

[andrewfi]

Building a relationship is about building trust between two people. Without trust, nothing happens.

This is a sales process. Just as selling any goods or services is about building enough trust from the prospect to enable them to trust the seller will solve the prospect's problem.

So too, you are wanting to build enough trust such that the buyer trusts you to solve her relationship problem.

So, when communicating it helps to think of the process using the following acronym:
AIDA which stands for
Attention
Interest
Desire
Action

See how much that acronym matches what you already knew about building a romantic relationship?

Now, one can be anal about this and break down the process into several smaller sales whereby a dating site or social media profile should also follow the AIDA process - but let's not go there and simply consider the profile as being the Attention part of the sales process.

Next comes Interest.
Here you have to gain her interest (of course you want to find out if you are interested in her, but guys are simple creatures. If she is skinny with disproportionately large breasts then you're interested. Women are a tad more complex.

A tip, women love a good listener. A great way to get into a woman's panties is for her to gain that opinion of you. Going back to sales, we used to say you have one mouth and two ears, use them in proportion. She should be talking at least twice as much as you are. But when you talk, ask questions, not an interrogation, a conversation. If she has given you clues from earlier on about topics of interest to her, then ask about them. HINT, she is interested in anything she mentions. But you don't want to sound like a parrot so store topics away for later use another day, another week. She'll give you plenty of material!

Oh, as a rule, if she is not feeding you with more material than you can use, there's a good chance that she is not interested in you and can't be arsed to think about anything to jibber-jabber about.

So, following her lead on topics, ask her open-ended questions, use follow-ups to probe deeper into a topic, follow her lead. Ask questions that give you material for later demonstrations of your suitability of a mate. Knowing what flowers she likes can be stored away for future impressive use. She'll think you're a mind reader when a couple of months later, her fave flowers arrive, sent by you 'just because'.

If you provoke her interest then you will slide into Desire. That is, she will want you, want to continue down this path. Now you need to start selling some benefits. You know what she likes, what sort of person she is, so mention things that are part of you, your personality and your life that match her own interests and needs. Don't be bragging, but, for example 'when we're living in our home in Spain you'll be able to invite your friends over to visit'. If she has indicated that a home in Spain is something she likes the idea of then you just made her go wet.

In essence, Desire is about making her want you, turning around the original dynamic where you replied to her profile because you wanted her.

Last comes Action. This is the close of the sale. In truth a relationship is a whole series of sales so you will have all sorts of 'mini closes' but in this context, the first major close might be related to meeting up. Of course, if you have been communicating well for a little while, then this bit is easy, it will just slide right along, indeed she may well open the door for you by mentioning, for example, her next vacation dates. But, you might have to ask explicitly for the sale.

Bear in mind, that if the previous steps have been carried out properly then this last step should be easy. You might have some trial closes, for example, you could talk hypothetically about 'IF' you meet up. Or talk about some nice place in her city or region that you have researched - you have been researching the crap out of all this right? Right?

If you've timed it right and built well, she will indicate her willingness to 'buy' and come right out and invite you over to see her.

Now then, in terms of the original question. I can say that this process might take weeks, but you will have plenty of material for all that time! Or, it might take only a couple of hours. Either way, the stuff you have talked about, the question areas that you have tucked away for later will provide you with lots to talk about.
For example, right now, I am chatting with a very nice woman. We chat for, literally, hours a day. We have already met, but meeting up again is tough.

Because of the common ground, we built earlier finding stuff to chat about is easy. It gets easier as the trust grows and the areas of conversation, as a result, expand. Your conversations should be about expanding your areas of common interest and reinforcing your suitability for each other. For example, I described the woman I mentioned as being my perfect woman. Of course, she isn't, nobody is perfect, but she is pretty damn cool.

When an opportunity presents itself I use that 'perfect woman' meme to illustrate how something else about her makes her my perfect woman. Now, she picks up on that and starts referring to herself as my perfect woman. Guess what, she bought me. She is now thinking about how she can be and how she is my perfect woman. I have claimed headspace - the sale is closed. In this case, I rather doubt that we will end up together, there's an awful lot running against it. But we enjoy each other and, for as long as it makes sense to do so we will continue. My hope is that as we get closer and as I gain more headspace that the difficulties in being together will be overcome.

If you do a good job of the sales process you'll never run out of things to talk about, you'll always be finding new topics and new nuances.

[msmoby]

Ask more about her, open questions, things that she cannot answer a thumbs up to. Make it less about you and more about her. 

How, Why Where, What, When  - it's just like selling

[Manny]

Ask more about her, open questions, things that she cannot answer a thumbs up to. Make it less about you and more about her. 

How, Why Where, What, When  - it's just like selling

I agree, and with this:

Building a relationship is about building trust between two people. Without trust, nothing happens.

This is a sales process. Just as selling any goods or services is about building enough trust from the prospect to enable them to trust the seller will solve the prospect's problem.

So too, you are wanting to build enough trust such that the buyer trusts you to solve her relationship problem.

So, when communicating it helps to think of the process using the following acronym:
AIDA which stands for
Attention
Interest
Desire
Action

See how much that acronym matches what you already knew about building a romantic relationship?
process you'll never run out of things to talk about, you'll always be finding new topics and new nuances.

It is like business, I agree.

The AIDA principle is one of the first things I learned in business school around 1989/90. I still use it today when writing sales copy, writing a web page or something like a newspaper advert. AIDA has served me well over the years. 

Works with women too: Get their attention, get their interest (you've done both of those, JAD), your job now is to create desire - do this by talking about her and being interested in her. Make factual notes, refer back casually from your notes to something small she mentioned occasionally (shows you're listening and remember). Name of her favourite niece, colour of her hamster, new nail shade - anything is demonstrative. Once you have created desire, confirm it, make some tentative plans then it's time for the last bit of AIDA: Action. That is getting your arse on a plane to meet her (only about 5% of men get that far).

Most women, and especially these women, like men who dont just talk about it, but get on with it and do it (it in this case is taking the lead, guiding the discussion as required and getting on a plane).

This is turning into a good topic!

[NS1]

Ask about her work, family, desires, hope for the future.
Those  4 topic alone could take weeks.
as she answers, ask sub- questions around same topic.
Hobbies, cooking, home life, about going out.
movies, food, etc, etc, etc.

Tell her a bit about each of these as you go, but focus on her.
Her asking questions will also show you how interested she is in you.
Or is she just practicing her english.

relationships, past present and future, the list is endless.
If you both don't get excited at some point, time to move on.

[Guile]

I'd try to do a video chat asap. that makes things much more personal. messaging back and forth is ok but you can't really gauge her level of English or get nuances like when you are talking to someone live.   If she's using Google translate alot then that slows things down.   Skype now has instant translator built in.

After that the text messages have more meaning.

[justadude]

Thanks I appreciate it!

I left off a pretty important message part of the conversation.

When I told her the dates I'll be there, she said

"ok, hope we can meet". I replied "me too".

I didn't message today. Maybe tomorrow I'll ask her about her family. Thanks again and any more specific ideas please let me know!

[justadude]

Here's an update.

Me last night: I wish you a good day. smiley face. Sorry to send this message so early for you. [It was around 8:30] I hope it doesn't wake you. Perhaps we can write again when I get up tomorrow morning. smiley face

Her: Sounds good (in Russian). Smiley face

Me this morning [in Russian]: Thank you I hope your day is good so far. [continuing in English] What are you doing today? Are you sightseeing (sightseeing emojis)

Her: Crickets

[Guile]

Like I said, do a video chat or send her a voice message. It makes things much more personal. That is where speaking some Russian helps.  But even say it in English so she gets a sense of who you are.  If you are brave send her a video message so she can see you talk.

[Manny]

Me this morning [in Russian]: Thank you I hope your day is good so far. [continuing in English] What are you doing today? Are you sightseeing (sightseeing emojis)

Her: Crickets

First, do chitchat in English. What language will you communicate with your future wife in? Most apps translate it anyway but let her do the work. Translate important stuff.

Second, after “sightseeing” there is no question mark. So that isn’t a question; it now becomes an unclear statement - further muddied by confusing emojis - that doesn’t necessarily require an answer. Hence the crickets.....

Remove ambiguity from your communication and keep it simple.

“Hello [her name]. I was thinking about you. What are you doing today?”

Also, is this idle chitchat, or are you moving this discussion towards an objective - for example a video call?

[andrewfi]

Prompted by Manny, if your communication is written, there's a good chance that it is being translated. That's even if she understands some English.

If that's the case, and frankly, even if she isn't translating, drop emojis, just because the youngsters use them, they do not carry meaning. They were designed to convey some element of emotion but these days are corrupted and largely useless for that purpose.

Next, always punctuate fully and correctly. Punctuation carries meaning that can be picked up by translation programs so getting it wrong can cause imperfect translation.

Next, use simple words. Don't use any slang. Use the vocabulary appropriate to a child who cannot read well.

Last, and possibly most important. Use short sentences. Each sentence should carry one idea. Try to avoid commas and semicolons. If you need to use them then you will usually be better off using a period and starting a new sentence.

As Manny suggests be direct. Write what you mean and try to make each conversation have a clear purpose and point. Try to keep the emotional weight low because it will be misunderstood.

At this point your communication should be designed to do one thing: arrange a meeting.
The emotional stuff comes after you have met.

There's a saying, something of a cliché but with a large degree of truth: when we talk, something like 80% of meaning is conveyed non-verbally. When using text chat only a small part of what we need to say, other than direct, factual content is missing. So emotional weight, attitudes, personality, only comes with a face to face meeting.

When you have met, you will probably find that, assuming that you get along and choose to continue to build your relationship with this woman, that the context of your personal contact will start to inform your chat sessions. That, for many people, means, later on, that you will write words that you'd never normally say. At that point I use a lot of gifs to illustrate emotional content. I don't do that until after meeting but even later on, sometimes, one's gif came can fail. One sends an image only to realise that it went wide of the mark. But at that later stage errors are forgiven.

When I started using gifs I hit a lot of bum notes that led to failed opportunities due to using them too early and thus lacked the emotional context to get it right.

Remember, each chat session is part of the sales process. A sales conversation is, or should be, different to a normal conversation in that each conversation has a purpose. Save the airy fairy stuff, small talk, until you've made the sale.

[justadude]

Like I said, do a video chat or send her a voice message. It makes things much more personal. That is where speaking some Russian helps.  But even say it in English so she gets a sense of who you are.  If you are brave send her a video message so she can see you talk.

That video message sounds like a good idea!

[justadude]

there's a good chance that it is being translated.

 drop emojis,

Next, always punctuate fully and correctly. Punctuation carries meaning that can be picked up by translation programs so getting it wrong can cause imperfect translation.

Next, use simple words. Don't use any slang. Use the vocabulary appropriate to a child who cannot read well.

Last, and possibly most important. Use short sentences.

When I started using gifs I hit a lot of bum notes that led to failed opportunities due to using them too early and thus lacked the emotional context to get it right.

Thanks again. I think those are some more very good suggestions. Especially about the punctuation and short sentences. I try extra hard not to make grammatical errors that would be tricky translating. Along those lines, I assume she uses google translate regularly when we are communicating.

The conversation picked up again. I asked her about her family. She told me this is a painful topic as she is a widow. We decided to save this for later, but she did tell me her mother comes to visit her from her hometown to where she lives now semi regularly.

She sent me pictures of her hometown. It's a place I've never heard of and it looks quite interesting. Then again, they were google pictures and probably showing it's better side. Nevertheless, it is now on my list of potential places to visit on my trip this winter, even though she likely won't be there.

Today's conversation ended with a goodnight on my end and a kiss emoji from her.

I wonder how long in advance I should try to schedule a visit. I think a video call would be prudent first. A few weeks ago I had a video call with a different UA woman whom I had met on Tinder. After the call I wasn't really interested in meeting her in person as there was no spark. She probably felt the same way.