The Russian Dream..

[Danchik]

A fairly accurate report, thank you, though I would say that living outside of Moscow, would be much cheaper and therefore less financial "back-up" is required, though one must accept that salaries will also be that much lower.....

Yes, it's more expensive living in Moscow, but as you mentioned, you make less money; as much as 50-80% less depending.

I also chose Moscow for the "potential" opportunities with regard to money. If you are transferred with a company to anywhere in the FSU, it's moot. But if you're thinking about teaching as I did, you will never even come close to having the same opportunities to work than you do in Moscow.

That is questionable...
Maybe in the teaching profession, but I know people who have a salary of equal level to similar positions in the big 2 cities...( and the lower level salaries are also pretty much comparable)...
I also know people who manage to survive on about 15k/r/month... Don't ask me how they do it....
Property of course is that much cheaper...and probably do not increase in a similar manner...

Yes Gipsy, I'm mostly talking about the teaching profession. But if you look at the average income in Moscow compared to the rest of the country were looking at 61K to about 40K as of the end of 2015. Yes, not 50% (again I was talking primarily about teaching opportunities), but close to 35%.

I have an acquaintance who just returned from Tyumen. His short 4-month stint there (he's a lawyer) was to go and set up a new office in the city and hire a Managing Director. The base salary for that position was 40% less than for the same position in Moscow.

Again, working in Russia without being transferred with an affiliate company leaves few options outside of teaching for the average punter. I had also referred to living in "all" parts of Russia, not just the big 2.

If we focus on relocating and the Russian dream a la 2016 and beyond, the days of foreigners transferring to Russia with their companies are all but over, at least until they lift the sanctions. And the vast majority that do come are either based in Moscow, or working in Moscow.

And just for the record, Moscow was not my first choice of places to relocate. I wanted to move to another city, but i quickly realized that the working opportunities for someone moving here without the benefit of an affiliation were really lacking outside of Moscow; and that included St Petersburg as well. 

Again, your average punter is going to have few options for working outside of teaching unless they have an internet based job, even without taking into consideration that 99.9% of them will have no Russian language skills.

[Danchik]

and quickly just to add, I also refer to opportunities. For example, I have a teaching acquaintance who lives in Kazan and is rather busy all things considered for Kazan. While she charges about 25% less than I do for private individuals, I have triple the clients.

And if we factor in business client potential, well, it's not even close. Opportunities my man, opportunities.

[Gipsy]

A fairly accurate report, thank you, though I would say that living outside of Moscow, would be much cheaper and therefore less financial "back-up" is required, though one must accept that salaries will also be that much lower.....

Yes, it's more expensive living in Moscow, but as you mentioned, you make less money; as much as 50-80% less depending.

I also chose Moscow for the "potential" opportunities with regard to money. If you are transferred with a company to anywhere in the FSU, it's moot. But if you're thinking about teaching as I did, you will never even come close to having the same opportunities to work than you do in Moscow.

That is questionable...
Maybe in the teaching profession, but I know people who have a salary of equal level to similar positions in the big 2 cities...( and the lower level salaries are also pretty much comparable)...
I also know people who manage to survive on about 15k/r/month... Don't ask me how they do it....
Property of course is that much cheaper...and probably do not increase in a similar manner...

Yes Gipsy, I'm mostly talking about the teaching profession. But if you look at the average income in Moscow compared to the rest of the country were looking at 61K to about 40K as of the end of 2015. Yes, not 50% (again I was talking primarily about teaching opportunities), but close to 35%.

I have an acquaintance who just returned from Tyumen. His short 4-month stint there (he's a lawyer) was to go and set up a new office in the city and hire a Managing Director. The base salary for that position was 40% less than for the same position in Moscow.

Again, working in Russia without being transferred with an affiliate company leaves few options outside of teaching for the average punter. I had also referred to living in "all" parts of Russia, not just the big 2.

If we focus on relocating and the Russian dream a la 2016 and beyond, the days of foreigners transferring to Russia with their companies are all but over, at least until they lift the sanctions. And the vast majority that do come are either based in Moscow, or working in Moscow.

And just for the record, Moscow was not my first choice of places to relocate. I wanted to move to another city, but i quickly realized that the working opportunities for someone moving here without the benefit of an affiliation were really lacking outside of Moscow; and that included St Petersburg as well. 

Again, your average punter is going to have few options for working outside of teaching unless they have an internet based job, even without taking into consideration that 99.9% of them will have no Russian language skills.

No quarrel here...

[Gipsy]

and quickly just to add, I also refer to opportunities. For example, I have a teaching acquaintance who lives in Kazan and is rather busy all things considered for Kazan. While she charges about 25% less than I do for private individuals, I have triple the clients.

And if we factor in business client potential, well, it's not even close. Opportunities my man, opportunities.

Opportunities are abundant in Russia, that's for sure...

Teaching though, is not my cuppa....

[andrewfi]

While it used to be possible for unvisa'd, unqualified, untrained, itinerants to get paid employment in Russia, even in Moscow, is that still true today?

Historically teaching English has been, for the itinerant anglophone in many countries,  the better alternative between a choice of crop picking and transferring the inbuilt mother tongue to those unable to discern differing standards of language ability. Does that still work in a country that is increasingly keen to impose visa regulations previously overlooked and less willing to pay the unschooled to school their students?

[Gipsy]

While it used to be possible for unvisa'd, unqualified, untrained, itinerants to get paid employment in Russia, even in Moscow, is that still true today?

TBAH, Dan is probably the best person to respond to this question...

The un-knowledgeable would probably suggest, that whilst this would be difficult to do in Moscow or St P's these days, the outer, and more far flung places would probably be thrilled to accept anyone who is a natural born English speaker as a teacher, without any relevant qualifications..

[Steveboy]

While it used to be possible for unvisa'd, unqualified, untrained, itinerants to get paid employment in Russia, even in Moscow, is that still true today?

TBAH, Dan is probably the best person to respond to this question...

The un-knowledgeable would probably suggest, that whilst this would be difficult to do in Moscow or St P's these days, the outer, and more far flung places would probably be thrilled to accept anyone who is a natural born English speaker as a teacher, without any relevant qualifications..

Or lover    I think it would be pretty easy for an English guy to move in with some lady as a toy boy or something , well it would get you a bed and roof over your head , its a start...

[andrewfi]

I think that Dan is past the itinerant teacher of English stage since, lo, these many years and it was different back then.

But yes,  that's why I asked. We know that the Russians are cracking down on visa infringement and I have read of English teachers getting deported from the regions. Look at how at least one member has recently discovered the virtues of discretion.

[Gipsy]

I think that Dan is past the itinerant teacher of English stage since, lo, these many years and it was different back then.

But yes,  that's why I asked. We know that the Russians are cracking down on visa infringement and I have read of English teachers getting deported from the regions. Look at how at least one member has recently discovered the virtues of discretion.

That is not what I was suggesting....

As he is in Moscow, and a teacher, he would most probably be able to respond to your question with greater accuracy than I could....

[msmoby]

Opportunities are abundant in Russia, that's for sure...

Teaching though, is not my cuppa....

'Sure'

JUST lost another good, smart, intelligent neighbour back to Moscow...

She worked in the RF Sports Ministry .... 

[andrewfi]

Gipsy, thanks for your comment. I was not being critical of Dan and I realised that it might have seemed that I was being so. This was not my intent. Very few people have done as he has done.

My point,  badly made, was that I am not sure that the route followed by people in the past of building a life based upon informal pedagogy and transitioning to a permanent, formal, status is still viable.
I'd be interested to learn that it is still, to the degree that it is still viable as a general suggestion, the case.

[Manny]

Or lover    I think it would be pretty easy for an English guy to move in with some lady as a toy boy or something , well it would get you a bed and roof over your head , its a start...

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

[Steveboy]

Or lover    I think it would be pretty easy for an English guy to move in with some lady as a toy boy or something , well it would get you a bed and roof over your head , its a start...

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

I have heard of many doing exactly this 

[Gipsy]

Opportunities are abundant in Russia, that's for sure...

Teaching though, is not my cuppa....

'Sure'

JUST lost another good, smart, intelligent neighbour back to Moscow...

She worked in the RF Sports Ministry ....

Which dept......... doping???   

Wake up to reality man, Sochi has no need for the quantity of staff in the sports ministry as it has in the past, no more Olympics, and little other sport these day..
Annual F1, soon to be Footy, winter skiing, that's about all...
The other fact is that all ministries are getting much more streamlined (Un bureaucratic) and more up-to-date with centralised computer systems, so people are losing their jobs, its normal progress...

[andrewfi]

Or lover    I think it would be pretty easy for an English guy to move in with some lady as a toy boy or something , well it would get you a bed and roof over your head , its a start...

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

I have heard of many doing exactly this 

And they are all called Alfonse.

[Jerash]

Over the years I have received emails from various people asking me questions about relocating. I thought I'd just post "my" answers to the board in a general sense and not address things personally in emails. Should anyone have questions, please feel free to ask them here. I'll start with some basics:

Not everyone is cutout to live in another country. Are you someone who is flexible and can deal with issues that while easy at home, become much more problematic living in another country?

Are you outgoing yet not gullible? Meeting locals will be key to your adjustment period as well as moving forward for any length of time. While networking is always important, I can't overemphasize its importance once you've landed in your new country. Without a good local network you're simply going to have major problems.

Do you think you have all the answers? You don’t!

One of the most overlooked aspects of moving to another country is the person's personality. Living in another country is not for everyone. This is especially true when factoring in another language.

While more and more people are indeed moving to another country, the numbers remain small relatively speaking.

If you are someone who cannot remain flexible, find it hard to deal with situations that would be considered small in your country but much bigger in your "new" country, or you are introverted to the point where you find it hard to get out and meet new people; best to stay home. You should be moving to your new country, not running away from your situation.

It should go without saying that you should have most of your loose ends tied up. This mean emotionally, physically, financially and legally. These suggestions are also not for anyone transferring with your company as much of the hassle of moving will be handled by your company.

Where are you going? Sounds obvious I know, but it's a great big world out there and choosing the right place for you may not be as easy as it sounds. This is why I suggest living in the place of your choice before pulling the trigger. I had been to Moscow half a dozen times and spent about 4 months living "like a local" before deciding to move.

I spent a month and a half in Moscow right before my move, and when I returned to the States spent 2 months tying up any loose end before I made the move.

Money? Even though I had a lot of credit card debt at the time, I also had about $10k in cash from selling a few things in the interim. I have a home in LA and was able to secure about $900 a month positive cash flow from it after renting my place which allowed me to offset my credit card debt and focus my remaining money on my transition.

My suggestion here is to have at least $10k in funds before making the move, ideally without any debt hanging over your head of course. I also put a limit on my time in my new country (1-year) where if things didn't work out I would return home, regroup and continue on with my life.

Unless you already have a steady stream of income, you will go backwards before you move forward (which might happen even with a steady stream of income). To give you an idea, it took me about 1 1/2 years to earn the same amount of money I was spending at the time and start to move forward. YMMV..

I also don't subscribe to the "it will cost you more to live in another country than your own" paradigm. It costs me less to live in Moscow than LA, period. I live the same lifestyle and want for nothing. The main reasons for this is no mortgage (paid for by my tenants), and no car. It is also more expensive to rent an apt. in LA than Moscow, especially now. Mortgages can be optional, but in America, and especially in LA, a car is a necessity; Moscow it is not.

Not having a car saves me close to a grand a month in payments, gas, insurance and maintenance. I have broken down the cost of living metrics many times before between LA and Moscow so save your argument if anyone has one.

Staying in country? One of the biggest hurdles to moving to a FSU country is how to stay in country year round. I always suggest teaching. Why? Well, first of all any school that hires you will provide you with a year round work visa. Simple.

There are other advantages hiring on as a teacher. First, you can still have outside sources of income through the internet, for instance, and teaching won't take you away from that. But, probably the most important thing teaching will provide is the chance to network through all the students you will be meeting, which is invaluable. It will also make your transition much, much easier.

I hired on after a little more than a month living in Moscow and started meeting people by the droves. Not only did it provide me with a wonderful pipeline of locals whom could help me with any situation, the normal culture shock and loneliness of moving to a place where you know no one, and don't speak the language was virtually nonexistent.

You will not make much money at first teaching, but if you're the type of person the meshes well with all types of people and are fairly intelligent, your income can easily afford you a decent lifestyle.

More to come...

Thanks for this post Danchik. It is very informative and holds a personal interest for me as I have been seriously considering making the move. I am considering Moscow for a multitude of reasons, including city size, public transport, economic vibrance, and wealth concentration (many of the things that you yourself have mentioned on numerous occasions).  And perhaps most importantly, Moscow is an exciting city and I have always enjoyed my time there.

I first visited Russia in 1999. I stayed there 10 weeks. I lived 6 weeks in Moscow and spent the other 4 in other places, including the Trans-Siberian to the Baikal area (and an awesome 8 day hike along Baikal and into the adjoining Taiga). I came into Russia by boat, arriving in Sochi from Turkey (I am sure I would no longer recognize Sochi, but continue to hope that Ресторан сталинская дача is there, as I was a student then and wouldn't have been able to afford it, but would still like to visit).

My love, fascination, and interest for Russia continued, but as my own personal circumstances developed, I ended up moving to Poland instead and lived there for two years.

I didn't make it back to Russia until earlier this year. I spent most of my time in Moscow and experienced a city that was dramatically changed since my last visit 17 years ago. It now has all the trappings and conveniences of any Western city, including designated bike lanes and an effective indoor smoking ban.  Traffic etiquette had dramatically improved, along with many other things, and English language was more widespread (although, in all honesty, I was a little surprised at how limited progress in this area has been, relatively speaking, over the 17 years since 1999).  Still, it was easier to practice my Russian this time around as I perceived that there was more likely to be a "safety net" of English underneath if all else failed. In 1999, some Russian ability was absolutely essential for an independent trip of the duration that I spent in Russia.

As I contemplate the next steps, I expect I’ll have a number of questions.  Danchik, you are on the ground there and your local knowledge is truly indispensable.  And your willingness to dispense it is generous.  I have a few ideas for some things I might like to pursue once I am settled in in Moscow, but I think it will be most prudent to start with an ESL position - as you noted there are a number of significant benefits to this, including visa/work permit support, a source of income waiting for me when I arrive, and a great opportunity to begin developing a network in a large, foreign city.  Funny enough, when relocating on a long term basis with all one’s luggage, there is something to be said as well for the peace of mind in knowing that there is going to be someone to meet you at the airport.  Additionally, I already have experience here, having taught for a year at a decent ESL school in Krakow, as well as some private tutoring, both in Poland and later in Canada. 

Danchik, in another post on another thread you had mentioned Language Link (http://jobs.languagelink.ru) as a reputable school to consider, and also noted that there was the possibility of getting a work permit through them that would still “let you work as you please” (i.e. freelancing).  Do you know if this is still the case, or are you aware of whether or not things have changed there?  I’ve had a look at their website, and from what I can gather the options potentially open to me are a full time teacher (30+/hrs/week) at a posted salary of 35,000ru/mth to start or going through their intern program - an intensive 4 week TESOL training program is provided by them free of charge in exchange for the fulfillment of a 9 month full-time teaching contract from the intern at a posted rate of 25,000ru/mth to start.  I’m wondering if you are aware of any other options, although I appreciate that I may just have to suck it up in the short term and hustle to develop a private clientele outside of the the 30+ hours working for peanuts at the school.

I should mention for the benefit of readers that in addition to the salary, most schools also provide you accommodation in a shared apartment, visa support, funds to offset the cost of your international flight to get to Moscow, basic health insurance (anyone know what this is likely to include?), and income taxes paid.  Schools will also typically give you an extra 18,000ru/mth if you would prefer to find and pay for your own accommodation.

Although I have taught ESL before, it was a while back and I’ve lost whatever cheap ESL certification I had obtained at the time.  I have a BA and MA, but would you recommend some kind of ESL certification in addition to this as being important for getting a foot in the door in Moscow?  Is there one or two that are valued more than others?  CELTA seems to have come up a few times in my research although Language Link provides something else.  BKC-International House apparently provides a CELTA training course.  Have you heard anything good or bad about it?  I think it’s about 1000 pounds.

I still have a couple of more practical questions at this time.  Are there any other good options for obtaining visa support and a work permit in Moscow aside from getting on with one of the local language schools or is that the best/only way to go at this time?

Last question - may seem like a small thing to some, but I am very much interested in gyms in Moscow.  Over the last six months, I’ve been making some positive changes in my life and getting in shape is one of them.  This is really important to me and it is important that I am able to continue this in Moscow.  I’m really just wondering right now what the going rate and price ranges are for gym memberships in Moscow.  Right now I am going to one that also offers group conditioning classes, so it would be great if I could find something similar in Moscow.

Thanks for your posts Danchik - they are immensely helpful for someone who is giving serious consideration to Moscow! 

[Steveboy]

Over the years I have received emails from various people asking me questions about relocating. I thought I'd just post "my" answers to the board in a general sense and not address things personally in emails. Should anyone have questions, please feel free to ask them here. I'll start with some basics:

Not everyone is cutout to live in another country. Are you someone who is flexible and can deal with issues that while easy at home, become much more problematic living in another country?

Are you outgoing yet not gullible? Meeting locals will be key to your adjustment period as well as moving forward for any length of time. While networking is always important, I can't overemphasize its importance once you've landed in your new country. Without a good local network you're simply going to have major problems.

Do you think you have all the answers? You don’t!

One of the most overlooked aspects of moving to another country is the person's personality. Living in another country is not for everyone. This is especially true when factoring in another language.

While more and more people are indeed moving to another country, the numbers remain small relatively speaking.

If you are someone who cannot remain flexible, find it hard to deal with situations that would be considered small in your country but much bigger in your "new" country, or you are introverted to the point where you find it hard to get out and meet new people; best to stay home. You should be moving to your new country, not running away from your situation.

It should go without saying that you should have most of your loose ends tied up. This mean emotionally, physically, financially and legally. These suggestions are also not for anyone transferring with your company as much of the hassle of moving will be handled by your company.

Where are you going? Sounds obvious I know, but it's a great big world out there and choosing the right place for you may not be as easy as it sounds. This is why I suggest living in the place of your choice before pulling the trigger. I had been to Moscow half a dozen times and spent about 4 months living "like a local" before deciding to move.

I spent a month and a half in Moscow right before my move, and when I returned to the States spent 2 months tying up any loose end before I made the move.

Money? Even though I had a lot of credit card debt at the time, I also had about $10k in cash from selling a few things in the interim. I have a home in LA and was able to secure about $900 a month positive cash flow from it after renting my place which allowed me to offset my credit card debt and focus my remaining money on my transition.

My suggestion here is to have at least $10k in funds before making the move, ideally without any debt hanging over your head of course. I also put a limit on my time in my new country (1-year) where if things didn't work out I would return home, regroup and continue on with my life.

Unless you already have a steady stream of income, you will go backwards before you move forward (which might happen even with a steady stream of income). To give you an idea, it took me about 1 1/2 years to earn the same amount of money I was spending at the time and start to move forward. YMMV..

I also don't subscribe to the "it will cost you more to live in another country than your own" paradigm. It costs me less to live in Moscow than LA, period. I live the same lifestyle and want for nothing. The main reasons for this is no mortgage (paid for by my tenants), and no car. It is also more expensive to rent an apt. in LA than Moscow, especially now. Mortgages can be optional, but in America, and especially in LA, a car is a necessity; Moscow it is not.

Not having a car saves me close to a grand a month in payments, gas, insurance and maintenance. I have broken down the cost of living metrics many times before between LA and Moscow so save your argument if anyone has one.

Staying in country? One of the biggest hurdles to moving to a FSU country is how to stay in country year round. I always suggest teaching. Why? Well, first of all any school that hires you will provide you with a year round work visa. Simple.

There are other advantages hiring on as a teacher. First, you can still have outside sources of income through the internet, for instance, and teaching won't take you away from that. But, probably the most important thing teaching will provide is the chance to network through all the students you will be meeting, which is invaluable. It will also make your transition much, much easier.

I hired on after a little more than a month living in Moscow and started meeting people by the droves. Not only did it provide me with a wonderful pipeline of locals whom could help me with any situation, the normal culture shock and loneliness of moving to a place where you know no one, and don't speak the language was virtually nonexistent.

You will not make much money at first teaching, but if you're the type of person the meshes well with all types of people and are fairly intelligent, your income can easily afford you a decent lifestyle.

More to come...

Thanks for this post Danchik. It is very informative and holds a personal interest for me as I have been seriously considering making the move. I am considering Moscow for a multitude of reasons, including city size, public transport, economic vibrance, and wealth concentration (many of the things that you yourself have mentioned on numerous occasions).  And perhaps most importantly, Moscow is an exciting city and I have always enjoyed my time there.

I first visited Russia in 1999. I stayed there 10 weeks. I lived 6 weeks in Moscow and spent the other 4 in other places, including the Trans-Siberian to the Baikal area (and an awesome 8 day hike along Baikal and into the adjoining Taiga). I came into Russia by boat, arriving in Sochi from Turkey (I am sure I would no longer recognize Sochi, but continue to hope that Ресторан сталинская дача is there, as I was a student then and wouldn't have been able to afford it, but would still like to visit).

My love, fascination, and interest for Russia continued, but as my own personal circumstances developed, I ended up moving to Poland instead and lived there for two years.

I didn't make it back to Russia until earlier this year. I spent most of my time in Moscow and experienced a city that was dramatically changed since my last visit 17 years ago. It now has all the trappings and conveniences of any Western city, including designated bike lanes and an effective indoor smoking ban.  Traffic etiquette had dramatically improved, along with many other things, and English language was more widespread (although, in all honesty, I was a little surprised at how limited progress in this area has been, relatively speaking, over the 17 years since 1999).  Still, it was easier to practice my Russian this time around as I perceived that there was more likely to be a "safety net" of English underneath if all else failed. In 1999, some Russian ability was absolutely essential for an independent trip of the duration that I spent in Russia.

As I contemplate the next steps, I expect I’ll have a number of questions.  Danchik, you are on the ground there and your local knowledge is truly indispensable.  And your willingness to dispense it is generous.  I have a few ideas for some things I might like to pursue once I am settled in in Moscow, but I think it will be most prudent to start with an ESL position - as you noted there are a number of significant benefits to this, including visa/work permit support, a source of income waiting for me when I arrive, and a great opportunity to begin developing a network in a large, foreign city.  Funny enough, when relocating on a long term basis with all one’s luggage, there is something to be said as well for the peace of mind in knowing that there is going to be someone to meet you at the airport.  Additionally, I already have experience here, having taught for a year at a decent ESL school in Krakow, as well as some private tutoring, both in Poland and later in Canada. 

Danchik, in another post on another thread you had mentioned Language Link (http://jobs.languagelink.ru) as a reputable school to consider, and also noted that there was the possibility of getting a work permit through them that would still “let you work as you please” (i.e. freelancing).  Do you know if this is still the case, or are you aware of whether or not things have changed there?  I’ve had a look at their website, and from what I can gather the options potentially open to me are a full time teacher (30+/hrs/week) at a posted salary of 35,000ru/mth to start or going through their intern program - an intensive 4 week TESOL training program is provided by them free of charge in exchange for the fulfillment of a 9 month full-time teaching contract from the intern at a posted rate of 25,000ru/mth to start.  I’m wondering if you are aware of any other options, although I appreciate that I may just have to suck it up in the short term and hustle to develop a private clientele outside of the the 30+ hours working for peanuts at the school.

I should mention for the benefit of readers that in addition to the salary, most schools also provide you accommodation in a shared apartment, visa support, funds to offset the cost of your international flight to get to Moscow, basic health insurance (anyone know what this is likely to include?), and income taxes paid.  Schools will also typically give you an extra 18,000ru/mth if you would prefer to find and pay for your own accommodation.

Although I have taught ESL before, it was a while back and I’ve lost whatever cheap ESL certification I had obtained at the time.  I have a BA and MA, but would you recommend some kind of ESL certification in addition to this as being important for getting a foot in the door in Moscow?  Is there one or two that are valued more than others?  CELTA seems to have come up a few times in my research although Language Link provides something else.  BKC-International House apparently provides a CELTA training course.  Have you heard anything good or bad about it?  I think it’s about 1000 pounds.

I still have a couple of more practical questions at this time.  Are there any other good options for obtaining visa support and a work permit in Moscow aside from getting on with one of the local language schools or is that the best/only way to go at this time?

Last question - may seem like a small thing to some, but I am very much interested in gyms in Moscow.  Over the last six months, I’ve been making some positive changes in my life and getting in shape is one of them.  This is really important to me and it is important that I am able to continue this in Moscow.  I’m really just wondering right now what the going rate and price ranges are for gym memberships in Moscow.  Right now I am going to one that also offers group conditioning classes, so it would be great if I could find something similar in Moscow.

Thanks for your posts Danchik - they are immensely helpful for someone who is giving serious consideration to Moscow!

If you need some help or info on work permits / visa and that type of thing you can always contact Vadim Ryabakov at Liga Consulting  - office@rusvisa.org

They are in Moscow and seems lots of people use this guy for assistance or advice

[msmoby]

Which dept......... doping???   

Wake up to reality man, Sochi has no need for the quantity of staff in the sports ministry as it has in the past, no more Olympics, and little other sport these day..
Annual F1, soon to be Footy, winter skiing, that's about all...
The other fact is that all ministries are getting much more streamlined (Un bureaucratic) and more up-to-date with centralised computer systems, so people are losing their jobs, its normal progress...

Gypo,

'reality'?

The reality is the redundancies were 6 months ago ..   lack of money .. cut backs - BEFORE the doping scandal - and she's been looking for a replacement job here ever since

The marketing manager of the f1 circuit married his fiancee and she can't get a job commensurate to her abilities and they're off to Moscow, too

Reality is this is a resort town which Putin tried to make an international events meeting place.... spending Billions that is great fro Sochi - in terms of infrastructure -  then he chose going into Ukraine and it's all falling apart.

Folks came here hoping to be part of the 'boom' and it's just failing


You claim to not watch tv  - so you must be missing all the international conferences that meet in Sochi - the most recent major one being the Russian - Asean -[ SE Asia trading BLOCK - a bit like the EU]

[msmoby]

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

Care to be specific as to who you might be alluding ... ?   

[Manny]

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

Care to be specific as to who you might be alluding ... ?   

If you find that cap fits, feel free to wear it. 

[Gipsy]

Which dept......... doping???   

Wake up to reality man, Sochi has no need for the quantity of staff in the sports ministry as it has in the past, no more Olympics, and little other sport these day..
Annual F1, soon to be Footy, winter skiing, that's about all...
The other fact is that all ministries are getting much more streamlined (Un bureaucratic) and more up-to-date with centralised computer systems, so people are losing their jobs, its normal progress...

Gypo,

'reality'?

The reality is the redundancies were 6 months ago ..   lack of money .. cut backs - BEFORE the doping scandal - and she's been looking for a replacement job here ever since

The marketing manager of the f1 circuit married his fiancee and she can't get a job commensurate to her abilities and they're off to Moscow, too

Reality is this is a resort town which Putin tried to make an international events meeting place.... spending Billions that is great fro Sochi - in terms of infrastructure -  then he chose going into Ukraine and it's all falling apart.

Folks came here hoping to be part of the 'boom' and it's just failing


You claim to not watch tv  - so you must be missing all the international conferences that meet in Sochi - the most recent major one being the Russian - Asean -[ SE Asia trading BLOCK - a bit like the EU]

The reality is that ALL the ministries were over staffed, and workers were only doing a few hours real work each day, they were totally inefficient..
For the last 18 months, these ministries have been going through efficiency analysis by foreign experts, and various recommendations were made, which included unfortunately, the loss of many people at all levels..
Its a little sad for those who lost out, but progress had to be made, its been the same in all other sectors, the railways, oil industries, manufacturing....
Investment in new modern systems/technologies/databases, have resulted in efficiency gains, even the dreaded FMS lost nearly 60% of its people...
Stop crying for others and start thinking about yourself....
I know about the conferences from my own experience, don't need a tv....

[Gipsy]

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

Care to be specific as to who you might be alluding ... ?   

If you find that cap fits, feel free to wear it. 

Or a PINK ducky bow tie..   

[Markje]

There are so much new things in Evpat. I have trouble doing it all this vacation. Maybe some cities understand tourism better than others.

Dolfinarium
Dino park
Fountain show (free)
New beaches opened.
New restaurants.
...

Not all is good though. But overall things are improving. The city is vibrating and ready to welcome tourists

[msmoby]

Like our forum sofa surfing itinerant?

Care to be specific as to who you might be alluding ... ?   

If you find that cap fits, feel free to wear it. 

You walked right on to this - I posted what your comment would be as an email to myself   

You aren't normally backward in coming forward -perhaps you are being careful ? )))))
 

[msmoby]

The reality is that ALL the ministries were over staffed, and workers were only doing a few hours real work each day, they were totally inefficient..
For the last 18 months, these ministries have been going through efficiency analysis by foreign experts, and various recommendations were made, which included unfortunately, the loss of many people at all levels..
Its a little sad for those who lost out, but progress had to be made, its been the same in all other sectors, the railways, oil industries, manufacturing....
Investment in new modern systems/technologies/databases, have resulted in efficiency gains, even the dreaded FMS lost nearly 60% of its people...
Stop crying for others and start thinking about yourself....
I know about the conferences from my own experience, don't need a tv....

Gypo,

Whilst I applaud your noting the over-manning and inefficiencies of certain govt depts I can assure you the  redundancy in the case with the sports ministry case was economy related. Why try to spin it ? Did you speak with the lass ?

I do not wish for Sochi to be a one-trick pony town and smart, educated people leaving isn't a good thing.

Thanks for the 'advice' about worrying about myself ....