Russian Military Forces Arrive In Syria

[Manny]

This could get interesting if what is in the linked article is accurate: Russian Military Forces Arrive In Syria, Set Forward Operating Base Near Damascus

More here:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4696268,00.html

Yet curiously, RT says its not true: http://www.rt.com/news/314010-syria-russia-planes-isis/

[andrewfi]

The original report came from an Israeli source and seems to have given rise to another case of Chinese Whispers.

I'd be surprised if the RT story was incorrect.

[Manny]

The original report came from an Israeli source and seems to have given rise to another case of Chinese Whispers.

I'd be surprised if the RT story was incorrect.

They havent wasted any time denying it on their squiggly channel either: RT article in squiggly

[andrewfi]

I never knew that you were fluent in squiggly.

A man of many talents.

[Manny]

The Saker chap seems to think its unlikely: http://thesaker.is/a-russian-military-intervention-in-syria-i-very-much-doubt-it/

[andrewfi]

If he says it ain't so then it ain't so!

[Tom Cat]

Not saying it's true, just putting it out there for debate.

White House 'monitoring' reports Russian military is in Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-monitoring-reports-russian-military-syria-213836626.html

Russian troops 'fighting alongside Assad's army against Syrian rebels'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11840713/Russian-troops-fighting-alongside-Assads-army-against-Syrian-rebels.html

[Tom Cat]

Russia is not all that different than the U.S..
If Russia can give military tech, support to Syria, then it's fine and dandy the United states training Ukrainian troops.
Apple's, oranges.

No secret in Russian-Syrian military technical cooperation — Russian Foreign Ministry

http://tass.ru/en/russia/818572

[Manny]

Russia is not all that different than the U.S..
If Russia can give military tech, support to Syria, then it's fine and dandy the United states training Ukrainian troops.
Apple's, oranges.

Not the same. Russia supports Assad as he is the president (and it is in their interests to do so). The US tends to arm terrorists and other interlopers as we saw in Ukraine and elsewhere. Then they look surprised when said puppets decide to do their own thing as with ISIS.

Removing the incumbent, especially when you don't grasp the ramifications of so doing, will cause crap. Example is Libya, Ukraine and Iraq.

There is a good case for Russia helping Assad, and stopping all Syria coming under control of ISIS.

The world talks about not wanting ISIS, but I think there is another story at play here as we simply watch them get stronger and nibble around the edges with drones. A coalition of capable countries could snuff out ISIS quite quickly I think. The question is why isn't that the focus but Assad is? We are led to believe Russia is a "threat" and Assad should go (why isn't elaborated on) but watching ISIS take over the region so effectively seems to not be a priority.

Are the western drones being used as one would herd a pack of sheep, towards Damascus?

[msmoby]

Russia is not all that different than the U.S..
If Russia can give military tech, support to Syria, then it's fine and dandy the United states training Ukrainian troops.
Apple's, oranges.

Not the same.

EXACTLY, the same... But Manny can do not be objective. Assad, is no angel, but the dilemma is his loss of control of territory has not resulted in a democratic govt. ... and he protected Christian communities that are threatened by Muslim extremists. The Kremlin  sells AK 47's to places in Africa where it knows they'll be used to try to remove elected govts. Let's be honest here ...most 'developed' nations sell arms to protect regimes that they want in their sphere of influence..no matter how undemocratic, unpleasant they may be. 


Russia supports Assad as he is the president (and it is in their interests to do so). The US tends to arm terrorists and other interlopers as we saw in Ukraine and elsewhere. [/quote]

  Manny, you kid yourself - when it comes to Ukraine - we BOTH know who has supplied the heaviest arms across a border the the govt no longer controls....

Removing the incumbent, especially when you don't grasp the ramifications of so doing, will cause crap. Example is Libya, Ukraine and Iraq.

I think you'll find that in Ukraine, ensuring the elected leader  - not being elected -2004 - and not respecting what was clearly the wish of the over-whelming majority of the people - and even the Political party of the ex-President was FAR more of an issue.... 

There is a good case for Russia helping Assad, and stopping all Syria coming under control of ISIS.

The irony is - we sort of - agree - As ever, most competing groups unite to weaken a common challenger. Russia has a very large Islam population and must walk a tight rope

Are the western drones being used as one would herd a pack of sheep, towards Damascus?

Hardly, don't you look at maps to check ISIS 'gains or losses'  ?

[andrewfi]

As you will know from reading the articles to which you linked. There is NO confirmation fro the US about Russian troops in Syria. Once again they are devolving their intelligence to social media.
it is beyond the realm of credibility that a deployment of Russian troops to Syria would be invisible to US intelligence oversight - zero chance.
That the US is making claims, once again, based upon social media tittle tattle tells us as well as can be that there is no Russian deployment.
There's no legal, economic or political justification for such a deployment - but the legal issue would be the most significant barrier. Such a deployment would be counter to the Russian constitution.

The reports do not make sense because of the type of plane reported - useless for the task that those same reports suggest Russia is carrying out.

As those who know something already know, Russia has been supplying Syria with weapons and technical support for ages already, there's a continuous flow of materiel going over. Chances that there are no Russian speaking advisors and technicians in Syria - zero!
Chances that there are no supporters who speak Russian - zero.

Likelihood of any Russian deployment of forces in the region - zero.

[Manny]

Today's lesson in how propaganda works: The rumour mill turns a trickle of a story early this week about “thousands” of Russian soldiers deploying to Syria any day – a wholly unsourced story originating on an Israeli website – into a torrent of hyperventilating about the “Russian invasion” of Syria.

Today neocon convicted felon Eliot Abrams took to the Council on Foreign Relations website to amplify the Israeli article (again with no sources or evidence) to a whole new and more dramatic article ominously titled “Putin in Syria.”

But in the category of never let a good “crisis” go to waste, the White House, which began bombing Syria last August in violation of both international and US law, has declared that any Russian involvement in the Syria crisis would be “destabilizing and counterproductive.”

Apparently a year of US bombs is not “destabilizing.”

This is where the hypocrisy is so thick you could cut it with a knife. The US is illegally bombing Syria, illegally violating Syrian sovereignty, illegally training and equipping foreign fighters to overthrow the Syrian government, and has backed radical jihadists through covert and overt programs.

ISIS and al-Qaeda in Syria were solely the products of the 2003 US invasion of Iraq under false pretenses – the lies of the neocons – and after a year of US bombing ISIS seems as strong as ever while scores of civilians are killed by US attacks.

All of this is perfectly fine and should never be questioned. But even the hint that the Russians, who have had to contend with their fair share of radical Islam and are much closer to Syria than the US, may have an interest in joining the fight against ISIS is met with hysterical reproaches by a White House that admits it has no evidence.

What is the White House afraid of? While the stated goal of the Obama Administration is to defeat ISIS, the real, long-term goal is to overthrow Assad. The Russians disagree with the US insistence that Assad's departure must be the starting point of any political settlement of the crisis. The Russians have long ago come to understand that Assad may be key to saving Syria from the kind of jihadist chaos that has engulfed Libya after its “liberation” by the US and its allies.

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/white-house-warns-against-russian-military-action-against-isis/ri9527

[Tom Cat]

Vladimir Putin confirms Russian military involvement in Syria's civil war

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11845635/Vladimir-Putin-confirms-Russian-military-involvement-in-Syrias-civil-war.html

[Markje]

Vladimir Putin confirms Russian military involvement in Syria's civil war

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11845635/Vladimir-Putin-confirms-Russian-military-involvement-in-Syrias-civil-war.html

trash newspaper, when you read the article he confirmed no such thing, he just says its possible if he and obama can agree on what todo.

[Anteros]

Vladimir Putin confirms Russian military involvement in Syria's civil war

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11845635/Vladimir-Putin-confirms-Russian-military-involvement-in-Syrias-civil-war.html

trash newspaper, when you read the article he confirmed no such thing, he just says its possible if he and obama can agree on what todo.

I've met several Russian special forces guys in my lifetime and they all said the same thing:  their missions were secret and their government denied them; this is SOP.

If they can protect the lives of Syrian Christians and help destroy ISIS I would welcome their role.

[leslied]

"The people have short memories"

Russia is a long time supporter of the Syrian regime.  They supported his father Hafez Al-Assad.  Russia has been supplying arms and expertise for 30+ years...

There was no possibility of imposing a "no fly" zone in Syria because Russia supplied the latest air defense missile systems to Syria.  In the opening year of the civil war USA asked Turkey to test out this system.  (I posted details on this forum at that time) One plane lasted less than 30 seconds, the other a minute and a half.  Britain's ancient tornado's would have been lost on their first sortie...

Assad consented to the air strikes on ISIL and Peshmurga as this is helping his position.

Of course these advanced Weapons systems are under the supervision of Russian personnel.  The Spetsnez (Russian Special Services) have been involved since the beginning of the civil war.

The West insists on regime change (no role for Assad) which ALL informed opinion recognizes as a grave mistake.  Assad and the Ba'ath party are the ONLY political group which can restore order in Syria. 

Political reform after the civil war ends should be left to the Syrian people.  Some hope 
 

 

[Anteros]

"The people have short memories"

Russia is a long time supporter of the Syrian regime.  They supported his father Hafez Al-Assad.  Russia has been supplying arms and expertise for 30+ years...

There was no possibility of imposing a "no fly" zone in Syria because Russia supplied the latest air defense missile systems to Syria.  In the opening year of the civil war USA asked Turkey to test out this system.  (I posted details on this forum at that time) One plane lasted less than 30 seconds, the other a minute and a half.  Britain's ancient tornado's would have been lost on their first sortie...

Assad consented to the air strikes on ISIL and Peshmurga as this is helping his position.

Of course these advanced Weapons systems are under the supervision of Russian personnel.  The Spetsnez (Russian Special Services) have been involved since the beginning of the civil war.

The West insists on regime change (no role for Assad) which ALL informed opinion recognizes as a grave mistake.  Assad and the Ba'ath party are the ONLY political group which can restore order in Syria. 

Political reform after the civil war ends should be left to the Syrian people.  Some hope 
 

Excellent post.  About 2 or 3 years ago Moby was arguing that the West should get rid of Assad and I was telling Moby that the USA and the West should stay out of it, because of the usual blowback. 

[Tom Cat]

The tv news shows Kerry showing concern of Russia's involvement in Syria.
What I find idiotic, is these rumors come from the media.
U.S. intelligence knows who is involved and to what extent.
IF Russia wants to get fully involved, then let it happen.
Maybe they can get it right, and show the United states how it's done.

If things end badly, it won't be the United state's failure.

US State Dept. nervous about ‘press reports’ of Russian military in Syria

http://www.rt.com/news/314543-syria-russia-media-reports/

[Manny]

The Ambassador in London had a comment on the subject.

[Manny]

Yanks sticking their beak in again..........

Greece refused the US request to close the airspace of Athens (FIR Athens) for the Russian aircraft with humanitarian aid to Syria. This RIA Novosti said a diplomatic source in the Greek capital.

"On Saturday, the US embassy turned to the service to the Greek government to prohibit the passage of Russian aircraft in the FIR Athens. The Greek Government has refused to do so, so as not to worsen relations with Russia ", - he told the agency.

The source also added that Moscow has received permission Greece on flights to transport humanitarian cargo to Syria in the period from 1 to 24 September. Any official confirmation of this information, the agency could not be obtained.

http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/06/greece/

[Wiz]

In an excerpt from a 1990 interview with television network C-SPAN, with Brian Lamb, Dan Raviv and Yossi Melman, the authors of the book "Every Spy a Prince: The Complete History of Israel's Intelligence Community", describing how the office of Israeli Prime Minister stated officially the existing organization of "Mossad" as "Israeli Secret Intelligence Service", or ISIS.

See the Video:

The Mossad is responsible for intelligence collection, covert operations, and counterterrorism, as well as bringing Jews to Israel from countries where official Aliyah agencies are forbidden, and protecting Jewish communities. Its director reports directly to the Prime Minister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_intelligence

The Complete History of Israel's Intelligence Community:
Mossad, Aman, and Shin Bet (1990)

May we remind you, that according to reports assigned to the leaks of Edward Snowden, chief ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, named as the agent of the Mossad by his real name is Simon Elliot.

In July 2014 the ISIS announced that "Allah ordered us not to attack Israel," while fighters of ISIS videotaped burn of a Palestinian flag in Aleppo, Syria.

source: offtherecord.net.gr

The above for all of us to know exactly who is behind the murder of young Syrians, whose innocent corpses were viewed around the world and also who are the barbarians destroying ancient civilisation sites in Palmyra and other places.

It will be better instead of photos of the victims to post photos of the killers!

 

[Volshe]

edited
I reconsidered. It's not the problem that there are mentally ill people who post cr*p while unattended, but that they are allowed to do so. Good luck with such moderating of the board.

[msmoby]

"The people have short memories"

Russia is a long time supporter of the Syrian regime.  They supported his father Hafez Al-Assad.  Russia has been supplying arms and expertise for 30+ years...

There was no possibility of imposing a "no fly" zone in Syria because Russia supplied the latest air defense missile systems to Syria.  In the opening year of the civil war USA asked Turkey to test out this system.  (I posted details on this forum at that time) One plane lasted less than 30 seconds, the other a minute and a half.  Britain's ancient tornado's would have been lost on their first sortie...

Assad consented to the air strikes on ISIL and Peshmurga as this is helping his position.

Of course these advanced Weapons systems are under the supervision of Russian personnel.  The Spetsnez (Russian Special Services) have been involved since the beginning of the civil war.

The West insists on regime change (no role for Assad) which ALL informed opinion recognizes as a grave mistake.  Assad and the Ba'ath party are the ONLY political group which can restore order in Syria. 

Political reform after the civil war ends should be left to the Syrian people.  Some hope 
 

Excellent post.  About 2 or 3 years ago Moby was arguing that the West should get rid of Assad and I was telling Moby that the USA and the West should stay out of it, because of the usual blowback.

This poster advocated positive action in Iraq, Libiya AND Syria as people were dying at the hands of a Dictator.

I make NO excuses for supporting the action in the first two instances ... as whay happened in the power vacuums that ensued were forseen by wiser folk..but to stand by and do nothing..as in Syria...has worked out FAR worse.



.

[Wiz]

Some people are in urgent need of professional psychiatric help... Poor loonies, and their families  (And us too, who have to read this cr*p they post while having internet access). It must be awful  to be hit with such a debilitating illness at such an advanced age... You could be helped in Israel though, we are  good in treating it 

edited
I reconsidered. It's not the problem that there are mentally ill people who post cr*p while unattended, but that they are allowed to do so. Good luck with such moderating of the board.

Unfortunately in this world, there are certain people whose main pre-occupation are to falsify history, dispute events and historical facts and will make every effort to destroy the historical inheritance and life of other people, in an effort to establish themselves as the only truth tellers. These people have already shown to the rest of the world the nasty and vile side of their character and that is why they are so unpopular around the world. I have no need to post here any examples of their abhorrent actions as everybody has seen on the TV live, their actions against the poor Palestinian people, over the years.

The above “quoted” personal attacks and comments are an example of the nasty nature of their character and in respect of other peoples opinions and for the rules of this board, I will not reply in kind, as they wish me to do so. All I have to say is that the nasty dictator, Stalin, had a good idea to get rid of them and clear his country of such nasty people by allowing them to create their own Republic in the Far East corner of Siberia, which still exists, called Republic of Birobidzhan and that is the place where they belong to.

Read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birobidzhan

[leslied]

The civil war was ignited in Syria by the western powers as an element of their "Arab Spring" initiative.  Syria has for generations been a problem for USA foreign policy as it is implacably opposed to Israel.  No peace was ever agreed between Syria and Israel.  Russia has supported Syria for over 30 years.

The west could not complete the regime change (remove Assad and the Ba'ath party) because of Russian military support.  The USA then started supporting "the opposition"  This was EXTREMELY STUPID as many of these organizations later merged with ISIS, whilst others had (such as the Kurdish Peshmurga) are allied to the PKK.  The result was an escalation in the civil war.

The civil war in Syria has been in Stalemate for over a year.  The principle fighting is between the Kurd's and ISIS. The Assad regime has been brutal in defending it's enclave.  The west finally persuaded Turkey to become actively involved and then were dismayed that that Turkish forces concentrated their attacks on the Kurdish militias (which the west has been supporting this groups with $$$ and arms!!!).  Turkey correctly views the Kurdish terrorists as the principle threat to domestic security.

Now the West is again talking about intervention in the civil war.  Their aim is to still to remove the Ba'athists from power despite the fact that if they do so the whole country will descend into chaos, as in doing so they will destroy the last vestiges of of government infrastructure...

The original problem remains though - Russia supports the Assad regime.  The USA knows whilst this remains the case large scale intervention is not an option. The level of force required is too great and the return of proxy cold war conflict in the middle east cannot be contemplated...

It would have been far better had the Western powers never interfered.  Assad was/is a dictator but before the civil war started he was quite benign. Syria had a prosperous economy and a growing business class.  All this has been swept away. Assad was an eye doctor in London before his elder brother was killed in a car accident and he was recalled to Syria by his father. IMHO opinion ANY peace settlement must include the Ba'athists and Assad.  Stability must return to Syria before any meaningful progress can be made.  This will require a very strong central government, more forceful than the dictatorship which preceded it...