The Russian Bride Business is Dead! The Report: Death of the Russian Bride

[ECR844]

Smacks of plagerisim. Which I believe would also be covered under the TOS. So does this mean that the thread and ads will come down as well?

[Paul]

Froid you're right Andrew's website does look amazing like the one you mention.  Andrew even copied the skeleton, just adding a bridal veil.  Is this legal?

It looks like they are using the same template from the same marketing company. It's quite common and no big deal. There are a number of "photography business" based hosts that do this.

[WestCoast]

Froid you're right Andrew's website does look amazing like the one you mention.  Andrew even copied the skeleton, just adding a bridal veil.  Is this legal?

It looks like they are using the same template from the same marketing company. It's quite common and no big deal. There are a number of "photography business" based hosts that do this.

Paul what you're saying is that Andrew's website isn't a slick, creative site but a quick copy and paste job.

[Paul]

Froid you're right Andrew's website does look amazing like the one you mention.  Andrew even copied the skeleton, just adding a bridal veil.  Is this legal?

It looks like they are using the same template from the same marketing company. It's quite common and no big deal. There are a number of "photography business" based hosts that do this.

Paul what you're saying is that Andrew's website isn't a slick, creative site but a quick copy and paste job.

It looks like Andrew and the adsense site are using a get-rich-quick by writing articles internet company called "The List Virus", which does not offer its customers many options.

Using the same template and intro text is nothing to get worked up over.

[WestCoast]

Froid you're right Andrew's website does look amazing like the one you mention.  Andrew even copied the skeleton, just adding a bridal veil.  Is this legal?

It looks like they are using the same template from the same marketing company. It's quite common and no big deal. There are a number of "photography business" based hosts that do this.

Paul what you're saying is that Andrew's website isn't a slick, creative site but a quick copy and paste job.

It looks like Andrew and the adsense site are using a get-rich-quick by writing articles internet company called "The List Virus", which does not offer its customers many options.

Using the same template and intro text is nothing to get worked up over.

Paul, if Andrew is using a template with limited options that undoubtedly means it's cheap.  So not only is his website a quick copy and paste job but it is based on a cheap template commonly found on the Internet.  What does that say for the final product?

[Bruno]

If the process becomes too lengthy/difficult (untenable), it becomes unprofitable ...

Now sure that it is true... more lenghty process mean more letter exchange and traduction work...

These big marriages agency are business... mean that they seek money... a US guy who date a FSU girl use a lot of money who go directly in the wallet of the marriage agency... once married, no more money go to the marriage agency...

Of course, there is these few ethical marriage agency, with only a few ladies that they interview personal ( bad business choice, it is so easy to use a web form without any control ), and who earn very little money, who really seek to create a couple ( again, bad business choice since a marriage mean a loss of customer )... these will maybe die, all the best for the big business...

I will not worry to much for the agency... Because of the IMBRA, they will be able to double charge US man because of some administrative cost... a good business man will never have problem to find a way to suck more money from their customer... it will not surprise me that several of the owner from MOB business are alien themself, from Ferenginar !!!

[ECR844]

Froid you're right Andrew's website does look amazing like the one you mention.  Andrew even copied the skeleton, just adding a bridal veil.  Is this legal?

It looks like they are using the same template from the same marketing company. It's quite common and no big deal. There are a number of "photography business" based hosts that do this.

Paul what you're saying is that Andrew's website isn't a slick, creative site but a quick copy and paste job.

It looks like Andrew and the adsense site are using a get-rich-quick by writing articles internet company called "The List Virus", which does not offer its customers many options.

Using the same template and intro text is nothing to get worked up over.

Paul,

If the website is a template, what about the text in Part 1 if the series of the adsence advertorial? Were there any similarities there?

[Brasscasing]

If the process becomes too lengthy/difficult (untenable), it becomes unprofitable ...

Now sure that it is true... more lenghty process mean more letter exchange and traduction work...

These big marriages agency are business... mean that they seek money... a US guy who date a FSU girl use a lot of money who go directly in the wallet of the marriage agency... once married, no more money go to the marriage agency...

Of course, there is these few ethical marriage agency, with only a few ladies that they interview personal ( bad business choice, it is so easy to use a web form without any control ), and who earn very little money, who really seek to create a couple ( again, bad business choice since a marriage mean a loss of customer )... these will maybe die, all the best for the big business...

I will not worry to much for the agency... Because of the IMBRA, they will be able to double charge US man because of some administrative cost... a good business man will never have problem to find a way to suck more money from their customer... it will not surprise me that several of the owner from MOB business are alien themself, from Ferenginar !!!

Hi Bruno welcome back.

My paragraph was not well written and I wasn't clear in my meaning, sorry about that...What I wanted to convey was;

If the immigration process becomes too lengthy/difficult, whether due to renewed enforcement of IMBRA laws/regs in the US or similar laws/regs in other countries, then the men seeking an overseas relationship might abandon the endeavor effecting the profit margins for the agencies resulting in their going out of business.

Otherwise, for the most part, I agree with your post.

Brass

[Paul]

Paul,

If the website is a template, what about the text in Part 1 if the series of the adsence advertorial? Were there any similarities there?

I don't know, ECR. I'm leaving for Romania tomorrow and don't have time to read through it,.. I'm supposed to be packing and getting other things ready  The idea that an article that was written about adsense has been slightly changed to be about the MOB industry is pretty silly.

BTW, I'm not trying to defend Andrew and, I do not agree with most of what he says either.

[Bruno]

If the immigration process becomes too lengthy/difficult, whether due to renewed enforcement of IMBRA laws/regs in the US or similar laws/regs in other countries, then the men seeking an overseas relationship might abandon the endeavor effecting the profit margins for the agencies resulting in their going out of business.

Well, for the time being, IMBRA is only limited to US... and i have write it before, US men are not the majority of customer for a real international marriage agency... in a previous post, i have show that same if 20% of US guy give up because of the IMBRA, it will lead to a drop of only 5% income for agency... drop who can be easily compensate by a little price rise for all customer...

In fact, Andrew report can lead agency to loose more customer that the IMBRA itself if it was better diffused that now... in any group of people, you will always find some who believe the doom scenario and who will give up... not really a big loss for the FSU women...

By the way, immigration process is only a detail in all the foreign marriage process... being married to a RW is a daily work for several year and not always a easy task... if some people give up because of a more difficult/lengthy immigration process, the same people will give up when they live together with their foreign wife and enjoy the cultural shock until the wife is perfectly integrated in her new country...

Almost miss it... how is the IMBRA making the immigration process more lengthy/difficult for the man seeking a foreign bride...

Before a (for fee) IMB may provide a foreign national client’s personal contact information to a United States client, the IMB must:
- (1) search sex offender public registries  for information regarding the United States client;
- (2) collect certain criminal and marital background information through documentation or an attestation from the United States client;
- (3) provide to the foreign national client any records retrieved from the sex offender public registry search and the background information collected in her primary language;
- (4) provide to the foreign national client a government-prepared information pamphlet about the legal rights and resources available in the U.S. to immigrant victims of domestic violence and other crimes; and
- (5) obtain the foreign national client’s signed, written consent to the release of her information to the United States client.

Seem that all new "difficulty" are for the marriage agency... and step 1 to 5 may ask only a few days at most... step 1 to 3 can be a one time process during the customer registration if the agency work with women sharing a identical language ( russian by example )... guys who have nothing to hide don't need to fear the IMBRA... and the limit on the K1 visa is not bad too... K1 visa is for marry your already fiancée, it is not a dating visa !!!

[djfourmoney]

 In some respects the fear of IMBRA is actually not anything to fear in general but that the Government has information it can use against you if it sees fit. This is why you see some rants following by black SUV's and Choppers coming to their home which is something out of "Clear and Present Danger".

 The problem is this forums favorite place to hunt and it is a hunt for their wives can't use the back door to the US immigration system.

 It would certainly be a bit cheaper and less time consuming...

[Manny]

I think what some of the critics of the report are missing is that the US government is slowly but surely taking a stand against the foreign bride industry as a whole. People have cited that reference to older laws that have not been enforced have been made and the information presented as "new". I see that of course, and I see why some of the sources Andrew has used to date have been criticised. But he has further parts to come.

When I first heard that legislative changes are on the way in the US (which was a few months back), these states mentioned were given as an example of laws that can be woken up in a heartbeat when the political will dictates it.

Here is another example that allows us to smell the wind. A report is attached here as a PDF that comes from the Virginia Journal of International Law called: "Trafficked: Domestic Violence, Exploitation in Marriage, and the Foreign Bride Industry". (Credit to Dan @ another forum for finding it).

One can find innumerable gems in it; for example:

This note argues that the foreign bride industry constitutes human trafficking under international law and calls for both immediate legal reforms and the ultimate criminalisation and prosecution of foreign bride trafficking.

the brokering of foreign brides via "international marriage brokers (IMB's)" or "international marriage broker traffickers (IMB-T's)" (used interchangeably), to men in the United States.

Achieving the ultimate goal of prohibiting and criminalising the foreign bride industry as trafficking under US law.

You can read the attached document for yourself by clicking the link at the bottom of this post.

Tell me now that the foreign bride industry isn't under direct attack from various elements in the US.    It does have an impact for non-Americans too because the industry in its current form relies on the US as the major market. Without US clients the industry in its current form dies. The US is over 80% of the market. Thus: "The Russian Bride Business is Dead" as the report is called might be termed "critical and about to go on life support".

When I started this topic, I linked several agency owners and various other people in the industry I know to it and the report as well. I wanted them to stay in the loop of opinion and be acquainted with what is likely to happen to their businesses in the medium term.

I think Andrews first section was hopeful of flushing out the people who care about the subject (enough to cough up an email address at least), in order that sensible discussion about the way the legitimate side of the industry might evolve by choice before changes are forced upon them might take place. To that end, the discussion and subject is of value not only to agency owners, but their clients and others associated with the industry too.

Some of the comments on this topic have focused too much on Andrews perceived internet persona and not on the topic in hand. I think the mods have done an excellent job so far in keeping the thread on-topic, and that has involved splitting off some unrelated stuff that has caused a few members to complain.

Andrew has been poorly for a couple of days, but I gather he has now revised his initial stance on small parts of his report being used here (under fair use provisions) for the purpose of sensible conversation and debate.

Kevin from Kherson Girls has already been on the topic. I would urge any agency owners reading this (as I know you are), to join in the discussion about the future of the industry and read the report if you haven't done so already.

[andrewfi]

Thanks Stuart for that link.
Sorry, I was supposed to be going back home to Estonia today. That will not now be happening. I will be gracing the Spanish coast with my presence for a few days longer.

A few points to make and apologies for missing stuff, I know I will have done.
1) The point being picked up on by Stuart and by some others is the TREND. Yesterday I was on the phone with an IMB dude. He had read the report and was making the same kind of points about how this is all very distant and not applicable.
My reply to him was something like this:
Activists and lobbyists do this stuff for a career. They have a career life span of maybe 40 years. If they sponsor or promote legislation for some 'free points', a thing that costs the pols no money to implement but looks good on the 'social activism account' then they will do it for the free votes and karma.
20 years later and the pol is in prison, retired or dead, but the legislation is stil on the books.
The lobbyist is by now a judge or DA and is up for re-election, or simply wants to polish his/her halo. Guess what he is going to do?
(S)he will dust off the legisaltion and lobby for it to be implemented.

Don't believe this happens? Remember a guy called Donald Rumsfeld? He, and others, wrote a paper detailing plans for invasion and overthrow of a certain middle eastern country. The back story, strategy and implementation plan was all there. It was written when Rumsfeld and colleagues were young hawks with an eye to the future. Guess what happened to that plan?
Remember what happened after 9/11?
The judicial process is a part of somebody's career, they CARE much more than you do, even if it is only about their own career! They can afford the long term view so never discount something because it has not happened just yet.

On the other hand most of the guys here have a time horizon of as long as it takes to find the first foreign wife, trade her in and get a second. Maybe 10 years in all, and most much, much less. So, you guys do nothing, because you think it is not relevant to you.

The business owners here, most will not have been in business for as long as a decade, a fair few were not service providers or employees even when IMBRA was introduced. IMBRA has been unenforced. Well, guess what, last year (IIRC) the GAO criticised the lack of implementation and poked the thing with a stick.
Now the free ride is coming to an end.

2. No, I do not mind if folks quote small pieces of my work, I DO and WILL object to folks using large chunks of it. Nobody needs to 'quote' multiple paragraphs to make a point, and if they do they should have no reasonable expectation of having that point read or responded to.
My apologies, I thought I had made that point previously.

3. While I want clients and users of IMB services to take note of what is going on, to be aware of the changing environment, in the end it is only those with a longer term view who can really do much about the issues. Very few customers are going to be activists for individual freedoms. In the end, it will be agency owners, paid wing men, tour guides, translators, agency employees, and others with a business stake who will have to make the hard choices.

The thing is though, I hope that service users, clients and the generally interested read this material and pass it on to their contacts who are service providers. In large part it is why I offered folks the opportunity to get a drink or two for the time they spend letting other people know about this report and its follow ups. Don't worry about me, I can manage the cost. Frankly, it is cheaper to pay a little money to you guys to pass on the link than it is to buy advertising or CPA traffic and LOTS quicker than organic traffic!

BTW, thanks for your efforts so far. The report IS starting to get into the hands of people with Russian and Ukrainian names and I recognise some names and email addressses that have popped up.

4. The IMB-T paper is interesting because it makes explicit what is going on. I was chatting online with a bloke about the fingerprinting issue. At first he saw no problem, then I asked him this question:
'In normal life who gives their fingerprints to the police?'
The answer came back almost without hesitation: 'criminals and those suspected of commiting crime'

What is happening is that the concepts are being redrawn.
One bloke told me ages ago 'I give my fingerprints and I am proud to do so!' he was an ex-serviceman and gave them as part of his military ID, but he did not give his dabs to the police.

So, subliminally, even if not enforced, the language and thought is being turned toward making anyone seeking a foreign bride into a criminal - in the mind, if not (yet) in fact.
Do YOU want to be thought of as a criminal just coz you think a Russian accent is sexy?

IMB-T is a thought document, it is not going to become a law all by itself but it is reframing thought by controlling and managing language. If one accepts the language of the document then anyone marrying a foreign bride is a human trafficker and thus a criminal. Easy!

It is exactly the same process as we see in times of war, how the language is controlled so that we have 'appropriate' mental imagery to go with the ideas. Gooks, anyone? Nips? Or in less warlike times what about 'nigger' 'dago' or 'wog'?
With the right control of the words associated with activities then it can be made socially unacceptable to do certain things.
You don't want to be a criminal do you?
So you don't do things that criminals do, things such as giving your fingerprints to the police, giving your police record to contacts, or getting involved in human trafficking.

As I have noted in DoaRB, we have a confluence of ideas, of memes; each on their own maybe not too important, but all together and at the same time? Dynamite. You are ALL going to be criminals because you do what criminals do!

[dbneeley]

Andrew--

Your latest post on this business is certainly far more reasonable, and capable of rational discussion. It is obviously completely different than your "report" that is so over the top as to be a distinct disincentive for many to take it seriously.

I agree that the trends are not auspicious. I also agree that IMBRA is a foolish law in many respects--the intended results could be done far more easily in other ways. If fingerprinting and criminal background checks are actually to be used,they could more logically be done at the time when a visa is applied for, not merely when someone seeks to contact someone else initially. Since foreign-owned agencies don't come under the purview of IMBRA, to give just one glaring example, the present law seems to only discriminate against American-owned ones.

It is often this kind of amendments that could far more readily be accomplished than trying to do an end run around a particular law. Seeking to avoid the whole thing by changing the paradigm as I believe is intended often becomes the source of other, even more egregious amendments that are extended to other kinds of enterprises. That, too, is something that could stand reasonable discussion among the interested parties.

I have been accused by a board moderator of saying "I have written one such report and could do better." The simple fact is that I have written dozens of research reports, some of whom have been part of the decision-making process for corporations in deciding upon tens of millions of dollars in investments. So yes, I do believe I understand the genre.

In your case, I think it was a tactical mistake to avoid specific references, and to mis-characterize the State laws on the subject. Five States among fifty are not exactly "Many" States, after all. If they are beginning to finally be enforced, that is actually a rather new phenomenon--and it isn't too hard to say that as your original meaning and not be so easily misconstrued at the cost of your believability.

I have never been particularly a fan of the "Chicken Little" school of argument, for I have not found it to be very effective for the most part. Doing what essentially appears a cut and paste from the "List Virus" program seems a bit unfortunate. For example, the one called "The Death of Adsense" claimed that Adsense "died" in 2006, about four and a half years ago--during which time Google has made billions of dollars from that program. (Adsense revenue to Google during the first quarter of 2010, for example, has been reported as $2.04 Billion.) Thus, from today's perspective that pronouncement seems to have been quite wrong. By having such a substantially similar approach, I fear that your valid speculations may well suffer the same lack of credibility among many.

Thus, my contentions regarding your "report" are five:

--The histrionic approach is counterproductive.
--Being less than careful with facts robs your argument of credibility that would have strengthened it greatly.
--As a recruiting tool for some new venture it is less effective than it might have been.
--That the entire approach reduces what should be an interesting and informative discussion to side issues.
--That the approach of this forum regarding it has discouraged meaningful participation by many who should probably be concerned about this issue, but who have been turned off by its manner of presentation and the unfortunate methods used to try to advance it here.

David

[andrewfi]

David, without making reference to the content but for a moment to what has actually happened.
I have opened up a discussion that has not happened before, people who are not members of any forum have visited my site and read the document, some have subsequently visited here and other forums.
People who have not visited this, or any other forum, for years have visited and joined the discussion. I have had emails and PMs from people I have not heard from for years and chatted with people I did not expect to be chatting with, ever.

The opt-in rate from the squeeze page has been HUGE at over 90%, this tells me absolutely that the process I set up works and is of value. Typically the opt-in rate from a qualified page visit/referral is considered good if it gets as high as 60%.

People have taken advantage of my referral offer and, as I recall, over 20% of the optins came from people referred to the page by people who had been themselves first referred by others, this again, is huge!

In just a few days this thread, and others elsewhere have grown from nothing to many pages and the readership, in the thousands, has been way beyond my expectations.

I want to have email addresses in order to ensure that subsequent documents will reach those who asked to receive them. Sadly I do not have adequate ESP powers to enable me to do this without using double opt in emails.
Let us be clear about this, if I wanted to have a mailing list of people for almost any niche such as this one there are better and easier ways to do the job. This is about communication.

Bottom line, I know my business, I know how to make things work and I am attaining my goals! You do not have to like the manner of presentation but as long as we have hundreds of downloads, thousands of readers and significant extra traffic all focused upon the topic then I will not worry too much that some people's aesthetic sensibilities are not fully satisfied.
By that, I mean that I want to have everyone happy, but overall I want to get the maximum benefit from my efforts. If I make everyone happy but nobody reads the documents and we have no discussion then what have we gained?

I have made quite a buzz in this little niche and that's not a bad thing. I expect that as we move the focus toward agencies that this will continue and, while maybe numbers will go down, the value will go up because, as I noted above, it is agencies, service providers, the proprietors and staff who are the people who need to consider what is going on.

[Muzh_1]

Andrew--

If fingerprinting and criminal background checks are actually to be used,they could more logically be done at the time when a visa is applied for, not merely when someone seeks to contact someone else initially. Since foreign-owned agencies don't come under the purview of IMBRA, to give just one glaring example, the present law seems to only discriminate against American-owned ones.

100% in agreement. And I believe it was done on purpose. Notice at the begining to the VA Law paper the US definition and the Palermo Protocol's definition of human trafficking.

"First, the [US] TVPA’s definition of trafficking requires force, fraud, or coercion to satisfy its “means element.”
"Conversely, the Palermo Protocol’s definition of trafficking includes a broader list of potential means, including the 'abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability.'”

This is crucial as (what I percieve) the intent of the authors is to forcibly bring the US to comply with international standards, therefore, IMBRA if duly implemented.

In your case, I think it was a tactical mistake to avoid specific references, and to mis-characterize the State laws on the subject. Five States among fifty are not exactly "Many" States, after all. If they are beginning to finally be enforced, that is actually a rather new phenomenon--and it isn't too hard to say that as your original meaning and not be so easily misconstrued at the cost of your believability.

Actually, Mr. Wilson is following in the (sensationalistic) footsteps of the authors of this VA report.  For example: "While the international community has largely tolerated relationships with foreign women via IMB-Ts under the auspices of civil liberties or “online dating rights,”134 these relationships have also received substantial scrutiny and regulation because of the likelihood that many of these relationships result in domestic violence.[footnote]135

And footnote 135 says...

135. Even despite data challenges in quantifying the number of IMB-T-facilitated marriages
that result in domestic violence, the INS concluded that there was “‘considerable’ potential for
abuse in such marriages, and ‘numerous opportunities for exploitation,’” including foreign immigrant
status, isolation, economic inequality, men’s unrealistic expectations, and the profiles of
men who use IMB-Ts. TAHIRIH IMBRA FAQs, supra note 131; see also INT’L MATCHMAKING
CONG. REPORT, supra note 132, at 2–6, 15–16, 19; SCHOLES, supra note 132, at 4 (citing MILA
GLODAVA & RICHARD ONIZUKA, MAIL-ORDER BRIDES: WOMEN FOR SALE (1994) and Uma Narayan,
“Male-Order” Brides: Immigrant Women, Domestic Violence, and Immigration Law, 10
IMBHYPATIA 104 (1995)). Moreover, these conclusions are supported by extensive literature on the
subject, the experience of domestic violence service providers, and studies that indicate that immigrant
victims suffer more severe abuse and are three times more likely to suffer abuse than the
general U.S. population. TAHIRIH IMBRA FAQs, supra note 131 (listing numerous sources in
n.2); see also Dorchen A. Leidholdt, From Sex Trafficking to FGM: Emerging Issues Confronting
Advocates for Immigrant Battered Women, in LAWYER’S MANUAL ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE:
REPRESENTING THE VICTIM 369, 373 (Jill Lauri Goodman & Dorchen A. Leidholdt eds., 5th ed.
2006), available at http://tinyurl.com/2dnc38g (“[At] a 2003 conference for domestic violence
service providers organized by the New York State Coalition Against Domestic Violence, half of
the counselors in attendance had assisted [IMB-T] brides who had become victims of domestic
violence.”); Amnesty Int’l, Issue Brief: Regulate International Marriage Broker Industry; Protect
Immigrant Brides Against Domestic Violence, AMNESTY INT’L USA, available at
http://tinyurl.com/24k9azr (last visited Sept. 23, 2010) [hereinafter Amnesty Issue Brief] (noting
the high risk of abuse that “mail order brides” face in the United States, including violence and
murder, and citing “[a] 2003 survey [that] found that over 50 percent of providers of legal assistance
serving battered immigrant women had helped women who met their abusive husbands
through [IMB-Ts]”).

If I read this report correctly, this is the intent of what they want to accomplish.

While some supporters of the foreign-bride industry have argued that
IMB-T websites do not capture the true intent of IMB-T grooms who
may be sincere in looking for a life partner and purportedly want to experience
foreign language and culture,169 the realities of twenty-first
century dating and the experiences of IMB-T brides prove otherwise. If
IMB-T grooms were truly looking for culture and a life partner, they
have many feasible opportunities to do so without purchasing the services
of IMB-Ts and exploiting power differentials between IMB-T
brides and grooms.

And then, the examples:

Continued language and cultural diversity in the
United States suggest that cross-cultural relationships are prevalent and
easily found locally, particularly in large, metropolitan areas.170 (Sorry, yokums no need apply - Muzh) The rise
of U.S.-based online dating websites,171 some of which offer free membership,
or even foreign versions of these sites,172 may help facilitate
such dating. Additionally, increased ease of international travel, growing
U.S. expatriate communities in foreign countries, and globalization
make changes in residence and foreign employment plausible options. (Typical theorist. No clue where her butt is - Muzh)
Considering the inequalities inherent in IMB-T relationships that are
advertised to IMB-T grooms,173 it is highly unlikely that men look for
non-exploitative relationships through IMB-Ts because there are several
other avenues through which men may find relationships that are not
based on their domination, control, and power over their partners.

Ball is in your court.

[Bruno]

Tell me now that the foreign bride industry isn't under direct attack from various elements in the US.    It does have an impact for non-Americans too because the industry in its current form relies on the US as the major market. Without US clients the industry in its current form dies. The US is over 80% of the market. Thus: "The Russian Bride Business is Dead" as the report is called might be termed "critical and about to go on life support".

Do you have statistical numbers who confirm your claim that the US is over 80% of the market ?

As today, my own number show that on a sample of 15242 men profile seeking a FSU lady, only 3990 are from US...

I was chatting online with a bloke about the fingerprinting issue. At first he saw no problem, then I asked him this question:
'In normal life who gives their fingerprints to the police?'
The answer came back almost without hesitation: 'criminals and those suspected of commiting crime'

So, i am a criminal or i am suspected of commiting crime ... http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-539107 ... yes, all the new EU international passport have a electronic chip in them with fingerprint on it... very useful for fight identity thief who use false document...

Need my fingerprint to start my computer too... very useful since nobody else can start my computer...

People who have not visited this, or any other forum, for years have visited and joined the discussion.

In my case, you are lucky... it was the "christmas-new year" pause for my other internet hobby... being bored, i have go to your tube and your video was one of the new video...

In just a few days this thread, and others elsewhere have grown from nothing to many pages and the readership, in the thousands, has been way beyond my expectations.

well, for the many page of these topic, several are dedicated to your referal system, to your site looking like a other, etc ... if all off-topic post was removed, it will not remain a lot of post...

You do not have to like the manner of presentation but as long as we have hundreds of downloads, thousands of readers and significant extra traffic all focused upon the topic then I will not worry too much that some people's aesthetic sensibilities are not fully satisfied.

Traffic, aesthetic are details... but i am curious to know how much people agree with what you write... and it will be interesting to have more reaction from various marriage agency since the report is mainly about their business model...

[froid]

Yep.  As I suspected.  Continue to push the agenda, ignore the criticism, and post just enough to keep the hits going.   Lots to see here but don't look behind the curtain!  I found my interest in the site waning before, this just clinches it.

Crystal ball says...

Part II...Brilliantly named "Life After Russian Brides". 

I am sure it will just tease things out...leading to Part III, IV, and Part V...The Cure!

Which will be a brilliant plan down the road to unify and collect all the providers into their own marketing and ad network since they are being pushed out of the Yahoo's and Google's of the world due to Imbra and similar legistlation. 

Good luck.  I'm done with this slimy pyramid marketing site. 

[Manny]

Do you have statistical numbers who confirm your claim that the US is over 80% of the market ?

It is a number I came up with based on geographic data from our book sales, my wife's work over several years and the member demographic here.

Based on book sales alone: The English speaking market is mostly the US followed by Canada. Runners up are the UK and Australia. The rest can be categorised as "others".

That said, I know the Benelux, Germany, France, Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland are large markets too. But most of the mega agencies are US based or US facing. 

Do you have a different view Bruno, as a multi lingual Benelux resident ex-agency owner?

[cufflinks]

File Under you just can't make this stuff up - Husband #3 logs into wifes email account and sees her cheating with Husband #2 - now Hubby #3 being prosecuted under State's computer hacking laws... so marry a foreign wife and be charged with Sex Trafficking not so far fetched really - unless you are in the Korean Relaxation Spa Mafia and the Feds and States leave you alone to avoid the hassle...

Seriously, How many here have logged into their wife's or girlfriend's email - better get written permission as part of maintaining fixing cleaning viruses etc off her PC from now on in the freedom loving USofA!

Husband Faces Jail Time For Checking Wife’s Email, Is It A Crime?
Wednesday Dec 29, 2010 – By Britni Danielle

http://clutchmagonline.com/newsgossipinfo/husband-faces-jail-time-for-checking-wife%E2%80%99s-email-is-it-a-crime/

File this under “crazy things people do in relationships.” A Michigan man is facing felony jail time for checking his wife’s email. Leon Walker, a computer technician, faces a jury trial in February for allegedly hacking into his then-wife’s Gmail account.

According to Walker, he didn’t hack into his wife’s emails because she had previously given him the password. “She’d asked me to read her e-mails before,” Walker said. “She gave me the password before. She didn’t hide it.”

Walker, his ex-wife’s third husband, claims the emails show she was having an affair with her second husband. After learning this, Leon Walker used the emails to file an emergency motion to gain custody of the couple’s daughter. Mr. Walker also shared the emails with his ex-wife’s first husband with whom Clara Walker has another child.

“He took action with the courts to have himself protected and I took action with the court to have my daughter protected,” Walker said.

When Mrs. Walker found out how her private emails made it to court, she filed a complaint with the police who later charged Leon Walker with hacking.

Although charging Walker with a felony seems a bit over the top, Prosecutor Jessica Cooper stands by her office’s decision to prosecute.  < Editorial Note - Feminazi Prosecutor >

“The guy is a hacker,” Cooper told the Detroit Free Press. “It was password protected, he had wonderful skills, and was highly trained. Then he downloaded them and used them in a very contentious way.”

So far Mrs. Walker has been publically silent on the issue, however her lawyer says that she might be inclined to speak about the case “given the inaccuracies and spin Mr. Walker has put on the story.”

No matter the outcome of the case, maybe this will make snooping lovers think twice about breaking into their partner’s email or voicemail accounts. 

<Note Mr. Walker says that wifey told him her password and he did not hack anything - so forewarned is forearmed!>

[Bruno]

It is a number I came up with based on geographic data from our book sales, my wife's work over several years and the member demographic here.

Based on book sales alone: The English speaking market is mostly the US followed by Canada. Runners up are the UK and Australia. The rest can be categorised as "others".

Well, i don't know your wife's book... but if the subject is related to US citizen seeking a russian wife, or related to the Us visa procedure, or... point is that if the main subject is related to US guy, it is logical that you sell more book to US citizen....

That said, I know the Benelux, Germany, France, Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland are large markets too. But most of the mega agencies are US based or US facing.

Do you have a different view Bruno, as a multi lingual Benelux resident ex-agency owner? 

let see two example...

- a well know free site ( www.freepersonals.ru )... 15242 men where 3990 are from USA : 26%
- a big agency ( www.alena-marriage-agency.com )... 84434 men where 18497 are from USA : 22%

I am pretty sure that any international site with both women and men profile will have similar ratio... around the 25% of US men...

Now, about mega agencies... as today, it is best to speak about mega network... a quote from my first post in these topic :

The owner of "allsinglerussiangirls" is Grebnev Nikolay from SoftEnergo, Saint-Petersburg... in fact, these guy own 36 different sites related to Russian dating/marriage...

A other example is the Cupid Media group with 32 website who target the whole world ( AfroIntroductions.com, AsianDating.com, AussieCupid.com.au, BBWCupid.com, BlackCupid.com, BrazilCupid.com, CaribbeanCupid.com, ChineseLoveLinks.com, ChristianCupid.com, ColombianCupid.com, DominicanCupid.com, FilipinoCupid.com, GayCupid.com, HongKongCupid.com, IndianCupid.com, IndonesianCupid.com, InterracialCupid.com, IranianSinglesConnection.com, JapanCupid.com, KoreanCupid.com, LatinAmericanCupid.com, MexicanCupid.com, MilitaryCupid.com, Muslima.com, PinkCupid.com, RussianEuro.com, SingaporeLoveLinks.com, SingleParentLove.com, SouthAfricanCupid.com, ThaiLoveLinks.com, UkraineDate.com, VietnamCupid.com ) ... The RussianEuro.com site existing in English, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Norwegian, Polish, Russian and Swedish. Around 18 million customer worldwide !!!

Point is that as today, international dating/marriage is not more only a US or EU business... the muslim in the desert, the African in the jungle, everybody everywhere in the world can have a internet connection... in fact, recently china is growing very fast in the international marriage sector...

USA is 308 million people, EU is 500 million people... remain 5995 million people on the earth... some of them are guy with enough money for seek a wife anywhere...

Boys, it is the USA who have lead everybody to a world market but it seem that US have forget about it... International marriage agency don't mean anymore marriage/dating between US citizen and the rest of the world... look at the name of the numerous site from the Cupid media group.

Here, we have agency with older rich Belgium ladies ( 50 yo and more ) who go "buy" a poor Egyptian husband who is half their age !!! This is international marriage agency business too !!!

Yes, some agency will die... little one, maybe these oriented to only US guy... but the big player, who are multinational business who have understand the globalization will survive without problem

The banner on there forum related to Andrew book show for title "Russian bride business is dead" when in fact it will be more exact to wrote "American groom business is dying"... same if the US close fully his border to Russian bride, these women will find their happiness somewhere else in the world... USA is not anymore their only choice... and the world crisis have made a good work at destroying the myth of the US having tree with golden apple !!!

Anyway, my view, your view, Andrew view, and other view have not value until we have real statistic about everything... the IMBRA was based on pseudo-scientific paper with really low value... all recent paper are based on a very old report ( http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/MobRept_AppendixA.pdf )... look at the "abuse" section... number are only for US women... for foreign bride, you can read : "no national figure", "reason to believe","can be expected",... read the final recommendation and you have a draft of your IMBRA...

Anyway, same if these forum was able to produce statistic based on a huge amount of case, who will believe guys who are "older men with three divorces, alcohol problem and history of domestic abuse/problem with law"... everybody will believe these pseudo scientist who have study less that 100 cases without going out of their office...

The Scholes paper was wrote 10 year before the IMBRA law... nobody have react... since, each new paper is somehow based on it... in the last 15 year, nobody have make some real statistical studies... everything is based on myth...

Andrew paper seem to follow the same method... i need number for believe what he say...  same think for you... your statistic are based on a book sale... my statistic are not perfect but it is based on the amount of men profile in international marriage agency... 99676 men profile where 22487 are from US men... what is the more possible number related to the number of US men using international marriage agency ? The 80% based on a book sale or the 22-25% based on a lot of men profile found on international marriage agency ?

[andrewfi]

Bruno, as you and others have noted, exact numbers are difficult to find. The skill of the analyst lies in being able to see a pattern from as little data as possible - indeed it has been suggested that the reason why the best CEOs are worth the huge salaries they can pull down is because of their skill in seeing patterns from incomplete data and propounding appropriate actions based upon that incomplete data.
I make no great claim as to being a world class CEO but I am not too bad at seeing patterns.

The direction of the social, political and legal environment for IMBs in both the USA and much of the rest of the world is becoming clear. In truth most of the discussion we are seeing in this and other threads is about the degree of clarity with which that can be seen by the various contributors.

What I am trying to do is to help make the direction clear to stakeholders in the IMB business and to try to formulate a means of dealing with the changes. The first part is under way right now. The second part is, still, under development, in part because I am still learning.

As to the relative sizes of different national markets, I do not think this is particularly important. It'd be hard to argue that, partly because of language, the US led section of the industry is the most significant. Also, we need to remember that the 'stock in trade' the women are, on the whole agnostic, as to their destination. The same women, probably not an order of magnitude away from 100,000 in the FSU is featured on websites in English, Spanish, German, French and maybe Chinese and Japanese. The goal of these women is self export.
However, given what I understand of visa numbers for the USA and other relevant data and estimates, I'd suggest that in terms of destination the market is about 30% to the US and 70% to everywhere else, which, almost certainly, makes the US the largest player in terms of destinations and in terms of 'buyers' and 'tyre kickers' I think that there can be little doubt that the English speaking market, led by the US, is overwhelmingly English speaking and US based.

[andrewfi]

OK, folks!

Here are links to the 'Death of a Russian Bride' document direct on www.andrewwilsonnews.com While over 90% of the people going to the page have signed up to receive the report I take on board the fears of those who are worried that I can somehow control their minds via email.

I still suggest that you DO sign up to receive notifications of updates and to download the report as a single document. Don't worry, I am not going to sell, give away or auction your email addresses and any message you get from me will have a link to enable you to stop getting messages in the future. Your minds are safe.

Anyhow, here are the links. Please note that this does not give the right to take and republish the words on these pages, they are copyright. Small quotes with linked attribution for the purpose of reporting and comment is fine by me.

http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-1
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-2
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-3
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-4
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-5
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-6
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-7
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-8
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-9
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/death-of-a-russian-bride-10

You can also subscribe to the site rss feed and thus get all posts on the site as they appear.
http://andrewwilsonnews.com/feed

If you want to share, circulate or promote these links please feel free, my goal is to maximise distribution of this document.

Stuart, if you want to organise these links in some alternative form, please feel free to do so.

Thanks for your interest and support guys!

[Bruno]

Bruno, as you and others have noted, exact numbers are difficult to find.

In fact, numbers don't exist... and there is not real wish to have them...

The skill of the analyst lies in being able to see a pattern from as little data as possible

Can say the same from people who wrote horoscope in news paper... there is a need of a minimum of data else it is all fantasy...

The direction of the social, political and legal environment for IMBs in both the USA and much of the rest of the world is becoming clear.

Not so sure about the rest of the world... for each agency who will be closed in the US, i am pretty sure that a other will open somewhere in the world... in case of FSU, it seem that the trend is about new english writed site where the owner is from FSU itself...

What I am trying to do is to help make the direction clear to stakeholders in the IMB business and to try to formulate a means of dealing with the changes.

Maybe you wish to help but believe me, big IMB business have very capable analyst team... pretty sure that they have already formulate plan for future change that you have not yet imagined... never take pro business men for stupid men...

As to the relative sizes of different national markets, I do not think this is particularly important. It'd be hard to argue that, partly because of language, the US led section of the industry is the most significant. Also, we need to remember that the 'stock in trade' the women are, on the whole agnostic, as to their destination. The same women, probably not an order of magnitude away from 100,000 in the FSU is featured on websites in English, Spanish, German, French and maybe Chinese and Japanese. The goal of these women is self export.

Well, IMBRA allow a escape way for business where US customer are not the principal business... so size of non US market can be important... about language, english was/is/will remain the main language used on the internet... a lot of non US site will use for primary language the English language...

The goal of these women is not really self export but more trade up... and some of them have already a idea to where they wish to go... sometime, in add, you can read "not from US", "from Germany", "not Muslim", "from AU", etc... again, some statistical study is needed...

You wrote "probably not an order of magnitude away from 100,000 in the FSU"... so, 100k seem to be the basic number but at other place, i have read that it was 150k... so, we have already a variance of 50% for the initial data !!! What will be the variance of other deduction based on these initial data ?

However, given what I understand of visa numbers for the USA and other relevant data and estimates, I'd suggest that in terms of destination the market is about 30% to the US and 70% to everywhere else, which, almost certainly, makes the US the largest player in terms of destinations and in terms of 'buyers' and 'tyre kickers' I think that there can be little doubt that the English speaking market, led by the US, is overwhelmingly English speaking and US based.

I think that you under estimate the EU player... EU have more population that US ( 500mil against 300mil ) who mean a lot of potential male customer... FSU ladies can easily find a entry point in EU for Visa tourist who will allow them to visit the potential groom country... EU is neighbours of FSU ( in the case of some FSU country, they are included in EU territory )...

Since you are located in Estonia, do you see Estonian ladies dating more US guy that European guy? in place of "European guy", i mean "European guy not from Estonia" since Estonia is a EU country now...

In fact, i see a pattern there, EU expending slowly to FSU country... take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EaP , very possible that in 10 or 15 year,  several FSU country will become EU territory... hmmm, maybe you are right, maybe the "russian bride business is dead"... with time, it will become the "european bride business" :p

Bride business have always exist... from the Christus time where pro matchmaker arrange marriage between a men from one village to a lady from a other village , to the actual modern business who match huge amount of people at the planetary level...

Pretty sure that if in the future humanoid life is discover on a other planet, two of the first business will be dating agency and prostitution... followed by alcohol, gambling, etc...

[Ade]

The goal of these women is not really self export but more trade up... and some of them have already a idea to where they wish to go... sometime, in add, you can read "not from US", "from Germany", "not Muslim", "from AU", etc... again, some statistical study is needed...

There have been several informal polls across several FSUW forums about where they'd ideally like to find a partner and the US is consistently in the minority and the EU as a whole is in the majority.

As for the English language... when there's no common language it is generally used as the third language of choice between FSUW and natives of non-English speaking countries because more people know it than any other; for instance, in Norway, most of the natives are well versed in English and there are way more RW that know English than Norwegian. I personally know RW with Norwegian husbands and they use English as a couple.

FWIW, it sounds to me me as if Bruno has a much more realistic handle on the MOB market than Andy and his report full of skewed hysteria.