What is the deal between Russian and Ukrainian women?

[el_guero]

OK,

I realize that it sounds a lot like the "north" versus the "south" here in the US.  But, I am noticing that many Russian women do not seem to 'admire' their Ukrainian counterparts.

I am not noticing the angst going the other direction.

But, I am hearing/reading Russian women commenting something like, "You need to be careful dealing with Ukrainian women.  You would be better off going to Russia.  Russian women are much better."

AND, they seem to be almost as annoyed by the Ukrainian woman as AW's are by any woman from the FSU.

Is this more than just the traditional 'cattiness' of our feline (I meant feminine) gender?  Or is this just a normal feline projection?

Wayne

[andrewfi]

north VS south, christians VS muslims, Mexicans VS Merkins, Proddies VS Catholics, Finns VS Swedes, Turks VS Greeks

everyone wants to feel superior to someone, or so it sometimes seems.

on some other forum some bloke is probably asking why it is that Ukraine women seem to have a down on Georgian women.

same same everywhere.

[MND]

The majority of Russian and Ukrainian women do not have a problem with each other

[dbneeley]

It is true that some Russians in general have an attitude of superiority regarding those from just about any other country, including the various states of the former Soviet Union.

This attitude also can rub off on the non-Russian spouses--[Mod edit: Personal attack removed - Brass]

David

[el_guero]

Men!

I needed a good laugh.

OK, who knows what it is.  And maybe it just happened that I met the only Russian women in the world with an 'attitude.'  I just find it intriguing to notice the 'airs' which were put on.  But what got my attention was the one lady who came back to me.  She apologized and corrected her comment.  When she said that she had been a little too strong and women can be good and bad everywhere, I realized that there was a little bit of a recognizable bias.  And she seemed to feel her bias was not entirely 'fair.'

I am finding the whole process 'fun.'

[erudite]

north VS south, christians VS muslims, Mexicans VS Merkins, Proddies VS Catholics, Finns VS Swedes, Turks VS Greeks

What are "MERKINS"?  Americans? I thought maybe some kind of new pickle.
I have found that the Ukraine people I know do not particularly like Modolvans, Middle Eastern featured FSU people from those republics, Turks and Armenians sometimes.  Sometimes they do not like blacks either unless they know them personally. The bias is strong usually and of course there is not even the slightest hint of anything remotely resembling "political correctness" or "racial sensitivity" in Ukraine either.  Just human experience defining likes and dislikes which is human nature.  To try to give meaning to the terms "political correctness" and "racial sensitivity" to a person from Ukraine is completely futile. The concept is not comprehended.

In Texas we consider anyone from Oklahoma or Arkansas who has a full set of original teeth and is not married to a cousin or sister much the same as ourselves.  Oh and Mexicans are called "Messkins" in the regional dialect and the term is used without prejudice as well.

[mendeleyev]

It is true that some Russians in general have an attitude of superiority regarding those from just about any other country, including the various states of the former Soviet Union.

So true.

My MIL feels that Ukraine is the "little brother" of Russia and can't operate, correctly that is, without the daily guidance of those who know better in Moscow. MIL speaks Ukrainian but will not speak it publically--however she is a great resource when there are questions about Ukrainian language.

There are more than enough Russians who think of Ukrainians as everything from "those little people/those little Russians" to much worse. Some years ago who I was traveling back and forth to Kiev as a consulting producer of a weekly radio program from there, MIL was afraid we'd eventually move there. "I'd rather see you live in the USA than Kiev" was her admonition. "Its just not proper for a Muscovite to live full time in Ukraine." 

Oh, of course it is very proper however to vacation in Ukraine, especially along the Black Sea. After all, even the Tsar had a summer home in Crimea. 

[tonton]

My MIL feels that Ukraine is the "little brother" of Russia

Exactly how we think about the Kiwi's--even though we can't beat them in rugby to save ourselves these days  

OT: My good wife has no disparity at all to Ukrainians, perhaps because being a Russian growing up in Kazakhstan before moving to Tomsk gave her no prejudices about this, don't know. Several family members live in Vinnitsa and when we were there together a few years ago there was nothing to suggest otherwise.

[msmoby]

It is true that some Russians in general have an attitude of superiority regarding those from just about any other country, including the various states of the former Soviet Union.

There are always such ignorant people in most nations..

This attitude also can rub off on the non-Russian spouses

??

@Wayne.. there have been quite a few similar topics on here..  there IS a prejudice - many Ukrainians didn't appreciate the Soviet Rule and some fought with the Nazi's to be free of the Soviet yolk..

[dbneeley]

This attitude also can rub off on the non-Russian spouses

??

@Wayne.. there have been quite a few similar topics on here..  there IS a prejudice - many Ukrainians didn't appreciate the Soviet Rule and some fought with the Nazi's to be free of the Soviet yolk..

Moby--I originally used as an illustration the example of the group moderator who seems to leave few mentions of Ukraine alone without putting the country and its people down while strongly suggesting that Russia is "the place" to find a wife.

He happens to be married to a Russian lady as well as being more than a little enamored of Moscow.

David

[Muzh_1]

My wife's best friend is originally from Moscow. She travels back on a regular basis to visit her parents. However, she cannot stand the Moscovites and their air of superiority. She says that the Nouveua Riche moved in and kicked all the good people out.

Remember, I'm just the messanger.

[MissileMe]

There's no problem.  More Ukrainian women are prettier than many Russian women. That's all.

But even that is starting to get blurred.  Younger Ukrainian women are becoming "americanized"  they don't take care of themselves as well as say... 5 years ago.   They have more to do than look good.   Society and country is maturing.

I mentioned this to my wife and she laughed and said "no kidding, I was wondering when you would mention that"

I live very close to Taras Shevechenko University and I see young girls every day when I walk my two dogs.  Trust me on this,  girls really dig my two dogs.  I get to ogle at the girls very closely every day as they make small talk and giggle about my dogs.   And trust you me, I am observant. LOL

[MissileMe]

Oh btw, just to clarify, American women that take care of themselves are really pretty.   America has the highest concentration of the most beautiful women on the planet.  And I mean it.   

[msmoby]

Moby--I originally used as an illustration the example of the group moderator who seems to leave few mentions of Ukraine alone without putting the country and its people down while strongly suggesting that Russia is "the place" to find a wife.

He happens to be married to a Russian lady as well as being more than a little enamored of Moscow.

David

Thanks David

I didn't see the original post - is this the mod who is fond of regaling his experiences of 'Moscow night clubs' ?

[Brasscasing]

Moby--I originally used as an illustration the example of the group moderator who seems to leave few mentions of Ukraine alone without putting the country and its people down while strongly suggesting that Russia is "the place" to find a wife.

He happens to be married to a Russian lady as well as being more than a little enamored of Moscow.

David

Thanks David

I didn't see the original post - is this the mod who is fond of regaling his experiences of 'Moscow night clubs' ?

Moving on you two...

Brass

[Manny]

More Ukrainian women are prettier than many Russian women. That's all.

I rather think that is a myth perpetuated by Ukrainian based agencies.

Although, it may be that some men mistake a lot of flesh, a little fabric and a lot of make up as pretty, when in fact what they are seeing is merely competitive tools in action on regular women (although thinner than they are used to, and that is often mistaken as "pretty" simply because thin women are scarcer in the west). Certainly, it seems clothing tastes are evolving in the more affluent corners of Eastern Europe to be less trashy and more classy. The poorer parts still have a higher number of women, who in the west, would look like streetwalkers.

I think the "pretty" gene (if you can call it that), is to be found throughout Eastern Europe and Scandinavia pretty evenly spread (and the UK come to that).

[Muzh_1]

More Ukrainian women are prettier than many Russian women. That's all.

I rather think that is a myth perpetuated by Ukrainian based agencies.

Although, it may be that some men mistake a lot of flesh, a little fabric and a lot of make up as pretty, when in fact what they are seeing is merely competitive tools in action on regular women (although thinner than they are used to, and that is often mistaken as "pretty" simply because thin women are scarcer in the west). Certainly, it seems clothing tastes are evolving in the more affluent corners of Eastern Europe to be less trashy and more classy. The poorer parts still have a higher number of women, who in the west, would look like streetwalkers.

I think the "pretty" gene (if you can call it that), is to be found throughout Eastern Europe and Scandinavia pretty evenly spread (and the UK come to that).

So, are you saying that the women from Ukraine look like streetwalkers? Or is that the poorer parts of Ukraine that look like streetwalkers?

[Manny]

More Ukrainian women are prettier than many Russian women. That's all.

I rather think that is a myth perpetuated by Ukrainian based agencies.

Although, it may be that some men mistake a lot of flesh, a little fabric and a lot of make up as pretty, when in fact what they are seeing is merely competitive tools in action on regular women (although thinner than they are used to, and that is often mistaken as "pretty" simply because thin women are scarcer in the west). Certainly, it seems clothing tastes are evolving in the more affluent corners of Eastern Europe to be less trashy and more classy. The poorer parts still have a higher number of women, who in the west, would look like streetwalkers.

I think the "pretty" gene (if you can call it that), is to be found throughout Eastern Europe and Scandinavia pretty evenly spread (and the UK come to that).

So, are you saying that the women from Ukraine look like streetwalkers? Or is that the poorer parts of Ukraine that look like streetwalkers?

I am saying what I wrote. No more. No less. Please do not try to put words in my mouth or attribute blanket generalisations to me that I didn't write. If you didn't understand what I wrote, say so.

[shakespear]

There's no problem.  More Ukrainian women are prettier than many Russian women. That's all.  

This statement might have had some credibility if the OP would have prefaced the statement with the worlds. "In my opinion".

Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, such broad sweeping statements are ridiculous.  

I've sat on the patio of La Cantina Mexican Restaurant, 2 blocks due north from the Kremlin in Moscow drinking margaritas in the middle of summer watching the women walk up and down Tverskaya.  Buddy if you've been there and seen that you'd have to agree that it would be hard to imagine there could be ANYPLACE with better looking women.  But I've had guys who've been to Kiev and Odessa who tell me just about the same thing.  

If you're going to Ukraine under the false delusion that the general population of women there is somehow better looking than in Russia; then trust me, on several counts, you are going there for the wrong reason.    

[shakespear]

So, are you saying that the women from Ukraine look like streetwalkers? Or is that the poorer parts of Ukraine that look like streetwalkers?

That is a common observation made by some western women the first time they are thrust into places like Moscow or Kiev. 

[andrewfi]

So, are you saying that the women from Ukraine look like streetwalkers? Or is that the poorer parts of Ukraine that look like streetwalkers?

That is a common observation made by some western women the first time they are thrust into places like Moscow or Kiev. 

And an observation made, over the years, by quite a few blokes who, having imported their best beloved as bride because, in no small part, of how she looked then quickly set about changing the way she looked into something more closely matching his perception of local community standards.

[shakespear]

And an observation made, over the years, by quite a few blokes who, having imported their best beloved as bride because, in no small part, of how she looked then quickly set about changing the way she looked into something more closely matching his perception of local community standards. 

An interesting point 'drew. 

There is certainly a different accepted professional standard of dress for a secretary in downtown Moscow or Kiev and one in Dubuque Iowa or Salt Lake City, Utah.  Some girls I've seen in Moscow wear skirts so short they may well get arrested in the United States if they wore them in public.

But back to western ladies, in many cases they are completely intimidated by the appearance and dress of the local girls when they first arrive in places like Moscow or Kiev.  In spite of all the supposed truths of womanhood taught to them by Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem, they realize they're a "noncompetitive product" in this new environment 

[Muzh_1]

More Ukrainian women are prettier than many Russian women. That's all.

I rather think that is a myth perpetuated by Ukrainian based agencies.

Although, it may be that some men mistake a lot of flesh, a little fabric and a lot of make up as pretty, when in fact what they are seeing is merely competitive tools in action on regular women (although thinner than they are used to, and that is often mistaken as "pretty" simply because thin women are scarcer in the west). Certainly, it seems clothing tastes are evolving in the more affluent corners of Eastern Europe to be less trashy and more classy. The poorer parts still have a higher number of women, who in the west, would look like streetwalkers.

I think the "pretty" gene (if you can call it that), is to be found throughout Eastern Europe and Scandinavia pretty evenly spread (and the UK come to that).

So, are you saying that the women from Ukraine look like streetwalkers? Or is that the poorer parts of Ukraine that look like streetwalkers?

I am saying what I wrote. No more. No less. Please do not try to put words in my mouth or attribute blanket generalisations to me that I didn't write. If you didn't understand what I wrote, say so.

Okay Manny, so let's say I didn't understand what you wrote. You started by dismissing that Ukrainian women are prettier than Russian women as a myth perpetuated by Ukrainian Agencies. Next breath refers to the "competitive tools" being used by "regular" (looking, I assume?) women and men become confused to what is really "pretty." That is, the pretty gene vs. skin. However, if these men would go to more affluent parts of Eastern Europe women do not look trashy but rather classy. Too bad the poorer parts of Eastern Europe (as anywhere except Russia, not just Moscow and Sankt P. I know, I know you never said it; here.) women look like trash according to western standards.

Bottom line this is the third time I have asked you to clarify what do you mean when you talk about Ukrainian women. And since my wife is Ukrainian, I want to be clear what is said.

[shakespear]

Okay Manny, so let's say I didn't understand what you wrote. You started by dismissing that Ukrainian women are prettier than Russian women as a myth perpetuated by Ukrainian Agencies. Next breath refers to the "competitive tools" being used by "regular" (looking, I assume?) women and men become confused to what is really "pretty." That is, the pretty gene vs. skin. However, if these men would go to more affluent parts of Eastern Europe women do not look trashy but rather classy. Too bad the poorer parts of Eastern Europe (as anywhere except Russia, not just Moscow and Sankt P. I know, I know you never said it; here.) women look like trash according to western standards.

Bottom line this is the third time I have asked you to clarify what do you mean when you talk about Ukrainian women. And since my wife is Ukrainian, I want to be clear what is said.

Oh Muzh, must you be so purposefully obtuse.

I think it's perfectly clear what Manny was saying.  They style of clothing, cut, fit and material used for female fashion in the FSU is quite a bit different than what might be considered "acceptable" here in the west.

Let me put it another way. . . . .when your Ukrainian wife came to live with you in NY, did she just continue to dress in the clothes she brought with her from her home country or was one of your first tasks a rather extensive (and expensive) trip to the mall?

[andrewfi]

Oh Muzh, must you be so purposefully obtuse.

Absolutely he must, even at the cost of appearing somewhat dimmer than he might, in truth, be. This is the gambit whereby he manoeuvres himself into a postion where he can claim to feel 'insulted' on behalf of some other person not even a part of the discussion or an object of it.

If you all keep this up it'll end at dawn one day with handbags at 20 paces!

Is this what Americans call 'passive aggressive' behaviour? I don't know, the answer, just askin' is all.