A partner from the Ukraine?

[AvHdB]

Hello one and all,

After two and half relationships one with a "Russian" woman and the other one and a half from Kiev. I at the age of 50 would like just a wife/partner. No she does not have to be model material and certainly not high maintenance.

Sort of thinking of going to Sumy and wondering what in any expierences one can tell about the agencies and women in this city.

Kindly, Arie

[Stirlitz]

Why Sumy?

[AvHdB]

Not 100% sure, I made a spread sheet and list of women who were interesting. Sumy was often in the list.

Further Sumy is a middle sized city but has relatively low percentage of women seeking partners from the West. This means there are fewer scammers and professional daters (or they all are).

Also twice before I was in relationships, more by chance, but was talking to a woman from Sumy.

There are three local agencies who you can contact direrctly as opposed to some one in The United States or Russia.

[mendeleyev]

Sumy was in a modernization mode until the world economy dropped a couple of years ago. Here is the RUA page with photos and info on Sumy: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,5632.msg76062.html#msg76062

[AvHdB]

“Never write about a place until you're away from it, because that gives you perspective” Ernest Hemingway

Leaving Sunday with Ukraine Air on the 2nd of May we were late on departure from Schiphol. In fact from all the times I have been to the Ukraine I have never arrived on time with this flight. This time it was due to the late arrival of the plane and compounded by the fact that a large group of Muslim passengers had suitcase’s that were too large for the overhead storage bins.

Upon our arrival at Borispol as the bus brought us to immigration I was dismayed to see the Delta flight had already arrived from America. This was obvious at immigrations, where the lines were to the entrance door and the majority of America citizens had not properly or only half filled in the forms.

In any event it took almost two hours to get to stand in front of an actual officer who looked at me, scanned my passport hit a few keys and than stamped my passport and immigration card.

I collected my luggage already removed from the band and left customs my driver was waiting with a sign as instructed and we were in his 10-year black Mercedes. On paper it seemed like an easy drive to Sumy and we reached the turn off from the main road to Kharkov quickly. It was a Sunday and a holiday. The road to Sumy had a fair number of Russian cars and the condition was at times poor.

The driver was good and not too crazy ~ we arrived in Sumy in just under 4 hours. Waiting at the apartment was Andrey the owner of Heart’s Desire, he let me and was actually surprised that I had no problem with the keys and would remove my shoes once inside.

Andrey in fact was younger than I expected, married with children and he drove a basic car. As he had explained per e-Mail before this week Ukraine was with vacations and it was difficult to make appointments. When I offered him a bottle of Dutch Genever (Vodka) he explained that he rarely drank, but he thanked me for my gift.

The apartment was entirely new on the ground floor. Everything seemed to work in fact it was a bit empty. No one had lived in it. was fine, simple and clean. Devoid of knick-knacks, bad art and a crummy carpet. The location was a five-minute walk to the center and about 15 minutes to the office of Heart’s Desire. At $ 25, = per night one may not complain.

He showed me the restaurant where I (or we) were to meet Olga at. In fact she was only mildly interesting. But I was in Sumy so meet I should and would. The restaurant looked expensive in any event he would join us if possible and showed me the main boulevards to walk around on.

Much earlier than expected I received a call that Olga was at the restaurant. I found her in the dungeon and she was attractive, elegant and greeted me in formal English. I was surprised because I expected Olga with a child who spoke only basic English.

When I told her I was confused (very easy to do) that she was not the Olga I expected and that I thought she was shorter she stood up and twirled around on her high heels and told me she was 175 cms. I stood up and said in my socks I am over 180 cms. She laughed and sat down, she took the two pillows from the seat standing them upright and said these are my children, ‘PLEASE do not wake them.’ I was both amused and pleased.

We had a nice dinner avoiding the very pricey wine list and had simple food. In fact she was a very pleasant surprise. She was more vivacious and intelligent than I expected. We ate simply total bill including tip was 280 hryna.

The next day Monday the 3rd of May was also a holiday. Andrey picked me up from a coffee bar that I had seen. He took me to his office with bright red signs of hearts and called Love. He showed me the program four meetings on Monday one planned for Tuesday. I was unhappy and told him but he explained because of the holidays it is difficult.

The first woman too arrive was late and I had time to talk with Andrey and the office manager. Both were very unhappy that I felt I could figure out in less than an hour if there was any potential between the women and myself.

In any event the first three appointments were quick and as I suspected from the profiles were not what I wanted. The office manager than had a long conversation with Andrey after which she spent a long time on the phone. Just before the fourth woman arrived she handed me an updated list for Tuesday seven meetings with a few open possibilities.

During the course of the day Yuliya, the office manager of Hearts Desire (Love) also confirmed the appointment for Monday evening with Luda and her translator, Ksenia, who was my first choice but with another agency. As well as a meeting on Monday night with a woman from yet another agency

Monday evening I met this translator, at Heart’s Desire. They accepted my using there location we went to meet this woman in a taxi. In fact we spent some time driving and the translator who spoke very good English was interested in confirming details that I wrote and in fact was I normal. She confirmed that the woman I was to meet was very special. (Well what else can she say)?

The translator who was only about 28 years old said that her agency was very new and had not had a problem because of the economy. In any event I meet with the woman and we went to a resteraunt out side of town. It was a long meeting because both Luda did not speak English and in fact was quite shy.

The bill from the Uzbek oriented restaurant was for the three of us some 180 hryna. This was surprising as we had wine tea and various appetizers. The translator had a discount card. Most important we were able to talk and discuss issues privately. This woman was in fact the reason I came to Sumy and she was in person special.

By 8:00 I had another meeting and we agreed to meet in front of the McDonald’s the girl was in fact foto shopped and while we spoke for a half hour I said I would consider other women if they could match my profile. We agreed to meet on Wednesday.

So Tuesday started at 09:00 with awful coffee from Heart’s Desires. After meeting 6 women who were not appropriate I was tired the women were neither clever, motivated or attractive. At about three pm another woman walked into an interview, she seemed attractive but young. In fact I realized Sevtlana was quite special but I had not written to her, she was in fact an introduction of Heart’s Desire. And her age was 31.

In any event the apartment had no drinking glasses and in that the office of Hearts Desire is about 200 meters from the market. We walked there and speaking English and German discussed many things but decided to meet that evening after her Yoga class to talk further.

Returning to Heart’s Desire I meet with one more woman who while quite attractive wanted to be taken care of and was not looking for a full relationship.

I meet with Sevtlana who had lived in Germany and spoke very good German. She knew a restaurant that was good, asked if I would be OK with a bill of about 500 hryna, I agreed she was captivating and charming. Walking to the restaurant I explained the differences between the Dutch and German and even though the Netherlands is a small country the people were widely traveled and clever in business. Déjà vu walking there were some Dutch businessmen entertaining local officials. This was the same restaurant as I ate with Olga and it was very good.  Though the restaurant tried to change the wine order to a bottle three times more expensieve. Afterwards in the cool spring air I walked her home she wore my jacket. 

On Wednesday morning I meet with the translator from Victoria Agency. She was in fact a different woman from the Monday night meeting hard and calculating. She explained at this point they have no web site such as Heart’s Desire. When I said let’s go to her office to look at their profiles she said that she wanted to do this via an internet café. I was immediately suspicious. When she demanded an extra fee twice the price for the initial meeting with the woman I left her telling her she represents everything that is bad with the business of agencies in The Ukraine. She was speechless and sat very still at her terminal.

Again I met with a couple more women. As agreed at 6 pm I met with Luda, her daughter Nastya and the translator. While I was rather nervous being vetted by a six year old she was a sweet little girl. We all had a good time, spending most of the time in a children’s indoor playground. At the end we decided to spend more time together agreeing on June for our next meeting again in Sumy.

So I hope the story shall continue, with Luda.

“It is better to be young in your failures than old in your successes.”
 Flannery O'Connor

[Vinnvinny]

Thanks for taking the time to write your report AvHdB.

I have been aware of Heart’s Desire for some time and cant work out if they are honest or not. I know Jim says stay clear but, whilst there seems too many pretty young women looking for older guys there does seem to be a fair few ladies of a type that you don’t normally find on scamalot.com. So, a few questions please …..

What’s your opinion of them? Scam, honest or ……. ?

How much did you pay per meeting, $35?

Were you only allowed to have your initial meeting with each lady at their offices?

Did you meet any ladies that spoke good English?

What was Sumy like and how (if appropriate) did you compare it to other places you have visited in the FSU?

Thank you. 

[Donhollio]

 

On Wednesday morning I meet with the translator from Victoria Agency.~ I said let’s go to her office to look at their profiles she said that she wanted to do this via an internet café. ~ When she demanded an extra fee twice the price for the initial meeting with the woman I left her telling her she represents everything that is bad with the business of agencies in The Ukraine. She was speechless and sat very still at her terminal.

   

Good for you! Too many guys would of just paid her extra BS fees, and continue to say nothing like a little puppy. I'm glad you told her   She most likely has tried this on other guys without much reaction from them. 
 But I do wonder, did you still use her services?

[AvHdB]

13.V.10

Hello,

No I did not use the services of Victoria Agency. It seems there profiles on 1rst International have an underscocre so like as an example Svet_sweet. If you study the profiles you begin to see a pattern in he English usage.

All three translators said they used primarily 1rst International. They have the an easy system for an agency to work with. Further 1rst International generates allot of messages. And that is how the agencies earn money.

I met all the women except Olga, very first meeting at the office. If the women were interesting I would meet again or go for a walk. The standard meeting fee is $40 including 1.5 hours of translation. I paid $200 per five meetings. I suspect I could have gotten that even lower. But I wanted better service and insight.

Yes I think Andrey is "honest" As we were discussing the profiles he admitted that a few of the women were only interested in a date and not a relationship. Others women were either naive or childish - her age was 28. Some of the women spoke English and one almost perfect German.

One thing Heart's Desire never pushed a paticular women or for that matter rarely gave insight into the women.  I would not go to meet women during a period with vacations or holidays. It seems harder to make the appointments.

My opinion and that is what I did make a profile of what you are looking for and than see if the women come close or fits in that profile. Long letter writing is expensieve and you might meet the woman and say in 15 minutes sorry you are not what I imagined.

Some where on my computer I have random notes about Sumy I will post them here.

[Vinnvinny]

Thanks for that AvHdB. 

[AvHdB]

Some Sumy notes and observations;

There are two museums in Sumy, both are small and very basic, though the art museum has one or two good Russian ~ Ukraine paintings and some very adequate copies or minor masterpieces of Western 17th & 18th century paintings. There are three Aivazovsky paintings, one is a train wreck the others late, but OK.

Further Sumy has some connection to A. Chekov and there is a museum in the town dedicated to him. (not sure where)

There is a small indoor child play ground under the town offices. This is inexpenseive and great for children from about 4 till 12 years old. It is a big blue glass cube. Plus across the river is a large play ground and fun park for children maybe age 8 till 16 years old. After that I guess they go to the beer garden.

Walking around Sumy there are beautiful women and many quite plain women.

Another observation there were often girls, (well under the age of 18) walking around with (local) men well above the age of 35. And I am not seeing a father with his daughter.

In the summer Sumy will be as warm (or cool) as the northern plains. In the winter it will be as cold as the northern plains though perhaps not as snowy.

The best place for coffee is Dom Koffie on the parallel street to the main street it is in the middle of the street on the East side. The waitress are cute and speak English.

It seemed all new construction had stopped with only restoration of churches continuing. I spoke with a Swiss builder and he confirmed this.

Always meet the women at there own agency initially. You will learn more about the agency and how they work.  If the translator does not wish or can not meet there you are in opnion looking at a yellow flag, if not red.

I believe that the Hearts Desire not with standing there reputation (by association) is an honest though some what expensive agency. The woman were as fotograghed or even more beautiful. If you ask the owner he will tell you his feeling about the specific woman. She is beautiful but wants a nice meal or she is dumb and not serious. The women I meet seemed to genuinely want to leave Ukraine for what they hope will be an easier life in the West with a more fulfilling man.

Both Andrey and the other translator were quite blunt about why they used First International, they generate the most traffic and responses. For the men it is the cheapest way to communicate with a woman. Andrey is prepared to sell the foto’s that he makes and some women take there profile & foto’s to another local agency to see if they get an response. He also indicated the competition is very fierce between the agencies in Sumy.

Taxi’s are generally cheap but it is best if you are not fluent in Russian/Ukraine to show the address and agree to a price on a piece of paper first before getting in.

These are just random thoughts and notes about Sumy.

[AvHdB]

My 2nd  Sumy trip

On Monday I returned to Amsterdam, I arrived in Sumy on Friday the 17th of July.

The flight left and arrived on time. Last in the bus first out than run to immigration. For what it is worth the lines and designations have been moved around in the immigration hall.  I was through the immigration as well as customs quickly. For the first time in a long time though my bags were examined by X-ray, no problems.

The driver from Heart’s Desire was waiting in the wonderful line of taxi drivers at Borispol and shortly we were off to Sumy. I planned to be exclusively with Luda though I had a plan B as an option. Fortunately for my entire stay there was a reasonable land breeze that made the temperature and humidity bearable.

Our translator Ksenia, and I say OUR knowing exactly what I am saying met with us for each of the days. Luda had to work late Friday and we only meet at 9 pm, we ate a Port Royal, which is about a ten minute car, ride from the center. The food was very mediocre but this is a brewery. And the beer was quite good and with alcohol percentages of as much as 14% was fresh and drinkable. There were tables’ spread of a terrace and a mock three master in a sort of pond. Unfortunately the “vessel” was called Elizabeth and I sort hoped to see it disappear under the surface as it was the name of a woman from a former relationship.

During dinner we planned to have a picnic over the weekend and Luda wanted to go horse riding also.

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately her former husband’s parents took Nastya, Luda’s eight year old daughter for the weekend. Part of me was sad and other side relieved we could focus on our selves and try to build something for the future together.

On Saturday Luda needed to work until 10 am. Initially I first went to the market by myself at 7:30 am. To my amazement the market was more or less closed, only the coffee/beer bar doing a brisk business with beer. Later around 10 am Ksenia showed up and we returned to a very active and crowded market that was in full swing. We purchased a fair amount of the supplies for the shaslik and picnic

By noon I was annoyed as well as hungry and with Ksenia we found a restaurant & hotel called Greenwich. It is on a parallel street to the main promenade. While there was a breeze it was warm and by chance I saw they had Campari, which was for me quite enjoyable with a lemon slice. Ksenia and later Luda were amazed that this was a drink and not some sort of Ukraine medecine.

By 1:30 pm Luda arrived at the table, radiant and almost edible. But I wondered why do Slavic women always have to be late? For some one who is as much Dutch as American this drives me crazy and is supper irritating. From Greenwich (town where in fact I was born) we went to the museums. While most of the art is not that special Luda who had earlier been here for work assignment studied each painting and descriptions carefully. At times she asked questions but mostly she looked. There was another couple a German and his rather young date as well as their interpreter. 

We returned to my apartment and continued to prepare the food what was NOT surprising was how determined Luda was to do things her way. I decided to back off; I did some simple jobs that were allotted to me. In a way this scene was a yellow flag as to what the future challenges will be for us.

At some point Ksenia said she knew where she could get some delicious beer and at a small kiosk directly opposite the McDonalds. I believe there was a local brewer who had a variety of different beers as a topper the woman serving would have put to shame those things in the Oktoberfeest in Munich! She was hot as well cool. In fact this was not unlike the French regional system of wine from the cooperative á vrac. (JC feel free to correct this) The beer was delicious and as we continued we needed to get some other items. Off to the grocery store and we had some more supplies.

By now it was almost 10 pm and we went to the restaurant Foncia, which was where I first ate in Sumy. There was a jazz band but they refused to play “I Get a Kick out of You”, and in fact never have heard of Cole Porter. The food here is quite good but the wine prices are exorbitant, by almost any standard. Eating a table away was the couple with their translator who we saw at the museum.

So just before midnight I was back in my apartment.

Sunday I awoke early and prepared the vegetables Provencal style excluding Aubergine (Egg Plants, because I hate there taste and texture,) Also I did potatoes more or less Diablo. When Ksenia showed up she was amazed. Luda showed up over two hours late and I greeted her more or less in Russian as my lovely sleepy head. She smiled for lunch I made her a Dame Blanche, Luda was surprised and found it delicious

So off we went to ride horses, first stopping to get a tablecloth and some more beer as well as yeast and milk based drink that was slightly sweet. I believe in English it might be called whey. By now we had a large volume of beer as well as wine and -some sort of malt whey beer for the driver.

The horse farm about thirty minutes into the countryside seemed quite modern. Bear in mind I have never been on a horse. Everything was clean and orderly, Luda who had ridden a couple times before enjoyed this activity and both myself and Ksenia also tried to ride on the horse.  I most admit ridding the horse was not that bad but with out question I prefer sailing.

About an hour and half latter we drove to a small river and decided here to have the picnic (shaslik) Anyways I insisted on fire briquettes, as I did not want to denude the forest so we could eat. Some one agreed to bring lighter fluid but this was forgotten. Everyone looked around wondering how we would do this and I noticed birch trees. While the women were amazed, it was obvious I was not the first visitor that used this trick to get the Barbie going.

What amazed me was as soon as the car was empty Luda and Ksenia with the help of the taxi driver collected four bags of rubbish and put them in the trunk/boot of the car. We laid out the table and the taxi driver was amazed at the different foods that we brought.

As a group we laughed and joked and talked and drank wine as well as beer and ate. No one had ever tasted a Rosé so when I saw a chance to buy a bottle of Tavel in Sumy I purchased it. This wine amazed everyone, including myself with the price of 130 UAH. Our driver and myself did the cooking as Luda directed.  It was a wonderful time and a great memory. Luda and I held hands as we drove back to Sumy.

By around 11 pm I was back in Sumy wondering about a future with Luda. I awoke at 6 am still wondering about Luda, the pillows had a rough night.

[skiingandrunning]

AvHdB,

I can relate to your comment about FSUW being late as I visited a lady in Chelyabinsk a few times who was the same way (it was just one of the many little things that drove me crazy). 

Anyways, thanks for sharing the story and I'm curious about your thoughts on comparisons between Luda (not speaking English) and the one previous lady you dated who spoke very good English.  Do you view the lack of language as a big handicap or just a small speed bump?

Mark

[AvHdB]

AvHdB,

I can relate to your comment about FSUW being late as I visited a lady in Chelyabinsk a few times who was the same way (it was just one of the many little things that drove me crazy). 

Anyways, thanks for sharing the story and I'm curious about your thoughts on comparisons between Luda (not speaking English) and the one previous lady you dated who spoke very good English.  Do you view the lack of language as a big handicap or just a small speed bump?

Mark

Mark,

The late bit is perhaps good for me maybe I am getting to anal. Ask Moby (just joking) I am certain he will let us know.

Someone perhaps you or others have said no English was a no go. I gave big points on my spreadsheet to a woman who spoke English and certainly both Luiza and Masha spoke very good English so it was easy to express needs and emotions in English. What was odd both of them felt they spoke very poor English.

Luda has made some improvements (I am paying for the lessons) but she is shy and reserved and I feel this is maybe part of the problem. I think her personality is wonderful and compliments mine. I often am though troubled by her lack of communication and it begins to wear down the trust and positive feelings I have towards her.

If I have to start again and I hope not do not want to become a Don, I think I will insist on English or German. As for Dutch we have nun's who can in two week get some up to speed.

AvHdB

[AvHdB]

Sumy Expenses

A couple other notes my taxi, and a good driver with a clean 10-year-old Mercedes-Benz car costs $150 per trip between Kiev airport and Sumy center. Apartments cost between 30 and for a very nice one in Sumy center $50,= US Note the DVD’s players are region 5. So any DVD you bring from North America or purchase in Western Europe will not work in Sumy.

I paid Ksenia $ 150,= for the four days of translating. Two full days and two half days.

I paid the taxi driver who took us to the riding academy and picnic 480 UAH plus a tip of €20,= He was with us from 12:30 pm to 11:30 pm he took Luda and Ksenia home after dropping me off.

The 90 minutes of horse back riding were 100 UAH plus a tip of € 10,=

I paid I guess around 700 UAH for the barbeque including wine and supplies there were two bottles of wine over and a fair amount of food.

In Sumy all the central streets are noted in Cyrillic as well as Roman letters.

Still have not found the Chekhov museum, but in that I have seen the Cherry Orchard in 3 different languages I am not so sure I want to.