What’s Driving USA Brinkmanship against Russia?

[Wiz]

Wiz, an interesting video, it seems to deal more with the debacle of Greece than Russia. It mixes up the UK, end of USSR and the agony of Greece in one pan, what does that taste like?

The unfortunate part much is not translated.

Two moments worth noting are at about 13:10 and 16:50.

Thank you for postings

Nothing more special than repetition, in Greek language, of the comments made by Naomi Clein earlier, in both cases with Greek photos.

The fact of the matter is that the Neoliberals from the school of the Chicago university decided to go out together with US vassal Germany and rape any country they could and between them destroyed Greece, Ukraine, Baltic countries Russia etc.

Unfortunately for USA, today, Russia does not have another idiot in power, like Yeltsin but a well educated ex KGB officer with an Excellent group of Managers who run the country for the Russian interests and not for the American Hegemonic state.  Not everything is perfect but a complete different situation than 20 years ago! I expect you must have noticed the difference in attitude and behaviour since the ex PM  Dmitry Medvedev, leader of the 5th Phalanx gone.

Russia today is not the Yeltsin Russia ..... but a strong well run Machine and together with China .... are not afraid to go against the old. corrupt political system of America! Keep an eye to your Federal Reserve issued Dollar going down!

It was reported yesterday that American Embassy staff in Kazakhstan are moving out!l

 

[2tallbill]

What’s Driving USA Brinkmanship against Russia?

My opinion:
The US and Russia have been poking each other with sticks since the late 1940's.
Their is no advantage these days to it but, they still just do it.

They are the two biggest kids on the block, they have a rivalry so they take turns
poking each other. Neither is going to completely start a real fight, but it seems that
they each will continue to stand apart and poke. 

I don't have a solution, but that's what I think is happening.

[Valenki]

What’s Driving USA Brinkmanship against Russia?

My opinion:
The US and Russia have been poking each other with sticks since the late 1940's.

Poking is one thing but provoking war is another. The Soviet Union did not provoke war with the US. It was the US that provoked war with the USSR. Fast-forward to the post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the US is certainly poking Russia and provoking war.



 

[Wiz]

What’s Driving USA Brinkmanship against Russia?

My opinion:
The US and Russia have been poking .....

Dear Billy... just wonder......

During your many travels there was poking part of your itinerary? 

I guess you were inspecting all interesting tourist places during your visits and enjoyed the beautiful sceneries .... and poking was the last drink of an enjoyable day! 


PS: Just wonder have joined the pensioners club like me?

 

[2tallbill]

Poking is one thing but provoking war is another. The Soviet Union did not provoke war
with the US. It was the US that provoked war with the USSR. Fast-forward to the
post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the US is certainly poking Russia
and provoking war.

You are back making ridiculous claims, I thought that perhaps you had forgotten
to pay the bill for your internet connection.

Please list any example(s) of the USA provoking war with Russia or the Soviet Union
that you can think of.

[Valenki]

Poking is one thing but provoking war is another. The Soviet Union did not provoke war
with the US. It was the US that provoked war with the USSR. Fast-forward to the
post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the US is certainly poking Russia
and provoking war.

Please list any example(s) of the USA provoking war with Russia or the Soviet Union that you can think of.

The US placed missiles in Turkey aimed at Soviet cities thus intimidating war. In response, Krusjtev put his own missiles on Cuba and forced the US to back down.

[2tallbill]

The US placed missiles in Turkey aimed at Soviet cities thus intimidating war. In response, Krusjtev put his own missiles on Cuba and forced the US to back down.

I said that both sides poke (provoke) each other. You need to stop making silly
inaccurate claims that the provoking is one sided.

Soviet times example
How would you characterize Soviet pilots fighting and killing Americans in
the Korean war? Would you characterize that as provocative?
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0291russians/


Modern times example
Would you consider flying nuke capable bombers towards US or Canadian
borders until they are repelled as provocative?


Spike in Russian aircraft intercepts straining Air Force crews in Alaska, three-star says
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2021/04/28/spike-in-russian-aircraft-
intercepts-straining-air-force-crews-in-alaska-three-star-says/


Nato intercepts Russian planes '10 times in a day'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56577865

Here is a photo of an Alaska air national guard intercepting a Russian Bomber
that was approaching US airspace off the coast of Alaska Sept. 28 2021



Does anyone know of a forum where lesser minds debate? Valenki might be able
to go there and practice a bit before returning here.

[2tallbill]

Dear Billy... just wonder......

During your many travels there was poking part of your itinerary? 

I guess you were inspecting all interesting tourist places during your visits and enjoyed the beautiful sceneries .... and poking was the last drink of an enjoyable day! 


PS: Just wonder have joined the pensioners club like me?

 

Yes, there were a number of Russian maidens who consented to see if
2tallbill was taller standing up or laying down.

[Contrarian]

The US placed missiles in Turkey aimed at Soviet cities thus intimidating war. In response, Krusjtev put his own missiles on Cuba and forced the US to back down.

I said that both sides poke (provoke) each other. You need to stop making silly
inaccurate claims that the provoking is one sided.

Soviet times example
How would you characterize Soviet pilots fighting and killing Americans in
the Korean war? Would you characterize that as provocative?
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0291russians/


Modern times example
Would you consider flying nuke capable bombers towards US or Canadian
borders until they are repelled as provocative?


Spike in Russian aircraft intercepts straining Air Force crews in Alaska, three-star says
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2021/04/28/spike-in-russian-aircraft-
intercepts-straining-air-force-crews-in-alaska-three-star-says/


Nato intercepts Russian planes '10 times in a day'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56577865

Here is a photo of an Alaska air national guard intercepting a Russian Bomber
that was approaching US airspace off the coast of Alaska Sept. 28 2021



Does anyone know of a forum where lesser minds debate? Valenki might be able
to go there and practice a bit before returning here.

          Boom!                             

[Valenki]

Please list any example(s) of the USA provoking war with Russia or the Soviet Union
that you can think of.

The US placed missiles in Turkey aimed at Soviet cities thus intimidating war. In response, Krusjtev put his own missiles on Cuba and forced the US to back down.

I said that both sides poke (provoke) each other.

You asked me a question and I answered it. It was the US that placed those missiles aimed at Soviet cities to provoke war, not Russia. There's the answer to your question. I gave it .... and you got it .... but now you're quivering in fear of me. I knew that would be the result as soon as I spotted the ignorance in your question.
 

[2tallbill]

You asked me a question and I answered it. It was the US that placed those missiles aimed at Soviet cities to provoke war, not Russia. There's the answer to your question. I gave it .... and you got it .... but now you're quivering in fear of me. I knew that would be the result as soon as I spotted the ignorance in your question.
 

Let's read your quote

Poking is one thing but provoking war is another. The Soviet Union did not provoke war with the US. It was the US that provoked war with the USSR. Fast-forward to the post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the US is certainly poking Russia and provoking war.

Let's look at your false claims
1. The Soviet Union did not provoke war with the USA?
I sited examples where they did. I am right and you are wrong.

2. Fast-forward to the post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the
US is certainly poking Russia and provoking war.
I sited examples where you were wrong. Again 2tallbill is right and Valenki
is wrong.

All I have to do is to quote you and show you where you are wrong.

If you are too much of a simpleton to see this then I can't help you.

[Valenki]

You asked me a question and I answered it. It was the US that placed those missiles aimed at Soviet cities to provoke war, not Russia. There's the answer to your question. I gave it .... and you got it .... but now you're quivering in fear of me. I knew that would be the result as soon as I spotted the ignorance in your question.
 

Let's read your quote

Poking is one thing but provoking war is another. The Soviet Union did not provoke war with the US. It was the US that provoked war with the USSR. Fast-forward to the post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the US is certainly poking Russia and provoking war.

Let's look at your false claims
1. The Soviet Union did not provoke war with the USA?
I sited examples where they did. I am right and you are wrong.

2. Fast-forward to the post-Soviet and Russia is not poking the US but the
US is certainly poking Russia and provoking war.
I sited examples where you were wrong. Again 2tallbill is right and Valenki
is wrong.

All I have to do is to quote you and show you where you are wrong.

If you are too much of a simpleton to see this then I can't help you.

I have only offered one example just to test you and see how you would react and the outcome is just as I expected: You stumble and fall. You know NOTHING and NOTHING is just how much you want to know. Selective, voluntary ignorance.

[2tallbill]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, yakity yak, don't come back.

Making fun of the retarded kid is beneath me. Try to refrain from making spurious
claims.

[Valenki]

It goes, "Yakety yak, don't talk back". But you can come back as much as you like. I rather enjoy making a fool of you.

[Guile]

who cares

[Halo]

Anyone who believes the US provoked war with the placement of missiles in Turkey knows zero about the USSR.

The USSR had a KGB run institute, Институт США, from Stalin's days after WWII.  It was "legalized", so to speak, and became public, in the late 1960's, and exists today as Институт США и Канады РАН.  That institute was very prescient in its analysis of the US - politically, economically, and to a degree, socially.

The Soviets always knew the Americans didn't want war.  War has a big effect on the elite, and puts them - their lives and their fortunes - at risk (I mean all out war, not localized skirmishes).

[Contrarian]

Anyone who believes the US provoked war with the placement of missiles in Turkey knows zero about the USSR.

The USSR had a KGB run institute, Институт США, from Stalin's days after WWII.  It was "legalized", so to speak, and became public, in the late 1960's, and exists today as Институт США и Канады РАН.  That institute was very prescient in its analysis of the US - politically, economically, and to a degree, socially.

The Soviets always knew the Americans didn't want war.  War has a big effect on the elite, and puts them - their lives and their fortunes - at risk (I mean all out war, not localized skirmishes).

Did you mean to say that only about the Soviet elites?

Because in fact the opposite was the truth in WWI and WWII, at least for the Rothchilds of Britain and the Rockefeller's of the USA.

Both clans made enormous profits from these two major wars and consolidated more and more power in each country.

[Halo]

No, I meant the American elite.  There was a change of power after WWII.  Those new elites didn't want to lose their positions.  Fortune typically follows power.

Anyone who thinks the Soviets believed the US was provoking a war in the early 1960's doesn't understand much about the USSR.

[Contrarian]

No, I meant the American elite.  There was a change of power after WWII.  Those new elites didn't want to lose their positions.  Fortune typically follows power.

It seems you mean a subset of the elites, below the banking clans. Somehow they manage to always avoid losing their positions and in fact profit from probably every war as they have a habit of financing both sides.

Below them your analysis makes sense. The question is if the bankers and the crooks working for them can commit a false flag operation which succeeds in causing another war.

https://thenewamerican.com/syria-chemical-attack-was-false-flag-wikileaks-drop-suggests/

In the case of Syria and Iran while Trump was President, although they obviously committed a false flag against Syria (the alleged chemical weapons attacks, which have been proven to be a false flag), they failed to lure Trump into starting yet another major war in the Middle East. This included their efforts when they committed false flag attacks against ships which they tried to pin on Iran.

[Valenki]

Anyone who believes the US provoked war with the placement of missiles in Turkey knows zero about the USSR .......

What a silly thing to say.  If someone moves up to you, nudges your toes, clenches one fist and sticks his finger of the other hand a mm from your eye - you don't see that as an invitation to a fistfight. Sure.  What did you say, I "know zero about the USSR"? I say that you know nothing  .... period.

[Halo]

The only silliness is in you making grandiose statements from a position of ignorance.  I can tell you know nothing of the USSR from your absurd statement.  There were a lot of things the Soviets did badly, but foreign policy wasn't one of them.

[Wiz]

Dear Billy... just wonder......

During your many travels there was poking part of your itinerary? 

I guess you were inspecting all interesting tourist places during your visits and enjoyed the beautiful sceneries .... and poking was the last drink of an enjoyable day! 


PS: Just wonder have joined the pensioners club like me?

 

Yes, there were a number of Russian maidens who consented to see if
2tallbill was taller standing up or laying down.

Billy are you still working or you have become a pensioner?

I cannot see our Anti friends  been around crying their luck..... and attacking any one who did not water their flowers....... poor girls always jelause of our female friends!, especial their leader. 

[Contrarian]

The only silliness is in you making grandiose statements from a position of ignorance.  I can tell you know nothing of the USSR from your absurd statement.  There were a lot of things the Soviets did badly, but foreign policy wasn't one of them.

I don't have a pony in this race however isn't he a Russian guy who actually lived in the former Soviet Union?

That certainly doesn't mean that he knows everything and in fact his numerous quarrels with Bill, Orchid, Av, myself and others over semantics and his odd understanding of English certainly doesn't help matters.

Personally I think he's got a point about the US provoking Russia and I also think that 2tallbill's elaboration of the situation, that the US and Russia like poking each other as a matter of habit, seems to be spot on.

I also personally think that Antony Blinken and most of the Biden administration are complete amateur's and the debacle which happened in Afghanistan is proof of that and some.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and the USA and Russia will find a way to do a real reset and get back to being better partners for World peace.

[andrewfi]

I think that if halo and Valenki (and others) were to take a step back they'd see that they are each describing a different part of the same elephant.

I think it is correct to say that among the relevant elite group within the USA that war is not wanted - but the economic benefit of pretending they do and acting as if they do is very real. The problem with this strategy is that the very act of maintaining that pretence is provocative and only a small slip can force the war that they do not really want to occur.

The USA is plagued with an amateur class of diplomats and analysts, people who have their jobs within diplomacy and analysis by gift. These are not core or trained competencies. As a result, they make unforced errors all the time. Their Chinese and Russian counterparts are fully aware of these obvious shortcomings and seem to work very hard to make allowances for dealing with interlocutors who, in comparison to themselves must seem like children.

But, Valenki is correct. If the children continue to poke the adults, threaten them, hit them and act in a bellicose manner then eventually, the adults are going to administer a sound spanking.
For a decade or so, the Chinese and Russians, aided by other nations, have been doing their best to manage the unruly kids, to train them, to mould them into responsible adolescents and adults. It is a hard task and the mummies and daddies are losing their patience.

How many more mistakes or incidents of unruly behaviour can the mummies and daddies cope with before the spanking is administered?

[Valenki]

..... There were a lot of things the Soviets did badly, but foreign policy wasn't one of them.

What is your point and for whom do you think you are making it?