Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Dating & Marriage With Women From Russia, Ukraine, Belarus & FSU => Agencies & Dating Sites => Topic started by: feosky on October 07, 2011, 02:43:57 AM
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Long time I work in marriage agency in Ukraine (Crimea) and what you need to know
to you understand Ukrainian and russian woman.
They not like American woman. They always waiting from the man something.
until they are married, they want to have surprise every day,
when she will find some one she want to have all money wich he receive.
I know it is difficult to understand but maybe it is because not very
good economical situation.
Anyway, if Ukrainian woman (for example) would like to find man from
abroad, she will have excessive demands for him.
Because if she will decide to married, she need to leave her country,
learn new language, and many other things wich she need to do, so she
looking for the man who realy can give her more then man from ukraine.
I can tell you that I can spend 200 - 300 $ for the beautiful woman here you
can in one night, and not receive sex :) it is not such big money for take a woman.
If you buy her the rings, next step you need to buy the flowers every 2
-3 days, you need to buy clothes for her wich she ask.
Many abroad man who understand it come to Ukraine and make all this
things, and they happy about such spend time (sex tour)
I know this because I saw it many times. The woman would like to have
more and more and they ready pay for this (gave sex)
So if you would like to find a woman wich will be tender, honest and
would like only be with you, you can looking for her in USA, because
here you just spend time and your nerve. If you want to have young
and beautiful woman, who will be ready go with you to USA, you need to
show her how you can take care of her. so you need do all what she ask
(all small wishes) you must ask her every day what she want more. And
you need take care and be always near her.
If you are ready for this, you must to try and you will see that it is works.
any way if you would like to try I can help you with this and tell about all pitfalls
PS: sorry for mistakes
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Feoasky.
Are you for real????
This couldn't be further from the truth (and i know my Wife is Ukrainian)
My wife has never asked me for anything like what you are describing! Infact she hates the fact that i would spend money on her in the time frame you suggest.....flowers every 2 - 3 days....(she would have a forest of them) i would be shot by her if i bought flowers for her every 2- 3 months!!!
''So if you would like to find a woman wich will be tender, honest and
would like only be with you, you can looking for her in USA, because
here you just spend time and your nerve.''
i think very much you are generalising here, and im a little discusted that you say this about Ukrainian Women..........
I Have never found a more Tender, Loving, Honest, Hardworking, Caring woman ever, and feel that your whole statement is not only derogitory to Ukrainian women (Which Includes my wife) but is also along the lines of Trolling....
I feel you will not be getting many requests for your services, and kindly ask that the moderators remove this post as it is full of blatant untruthes and over generalisation!!!
Utter Rubbish!!!
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Feosky
I would be interested in hearing which marriage agency you worked at... because if that is how the women are from that agency it must be full of pro-daters and scammers!!! :ROFL:
Just like Simo82 said, my Ukrainian wife is nothing like that either. She is one of the most generous and caring people I have ever met.
So in my opinion you are either here to try and start arguments or you are absolutely clueless about what most Ukrainian women are really like.... or both! :rolleye0009:
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Feosky
I would be interested in hearing which marriage agency you worked at... because if that is how the women are from that agency it must be full of pro-daters and scammers!!! :ROFL:
Just like Simo82 said, my Ukrainian wife is nothing like that either. She is one of the most generous and caring people I have ever met.
So in my opinion you are either here to try and start arguments or you are absolutely clueless about what most Ukrainian women are really like.... or both! :rolleye0009:
Guys, it is his perception as a Russian guy working at a mob agency in Ukraine.
He's giving you insight into what he has seen happen to Western guys who go over and try to romance mob agency girls in Ukraine. You should probably give him a chance to expound, and remember that English is not his primary language.
That is not his only job. He is also a tour guide for Crimea. I believe he posted a link to his Xtreme style of events he can arrange in Crimea, but the link was deleted. If you just Google Feosky you will see it. Even though it's all in Russian, it's pretty easy to follow. He does stuff like hang gliding, parachuting, motor cycle tours, cave diving, horse rides, etc. etc.
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Well, he has two people here married to Ukrainian women who disagree with what he said so now he is free to come and "expound" if he wants. Just because he worked for a marriage agency doesn't mean that what he says is true.
No where in his post does it say that "most" or "some" or "a few" women in the agencies are like this, he makes it sound like all Russian/Ukrainian women in the agencies are. Then he goes on to say:
So if you would like to find a woman wich will be tender, honest and
would like only be with you, you can looking for her in USA, because
here you just spend time and your nerve.
I know that english isn't his first language, but I'm pretty sure he is trying to say forget about finding a tender and honest girl in a fsu marriage agency!
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and here's a third guy married to a wonderful Ukrainian lady who also thinks he is talking b8%%*!s, but remember guys he is talking of his experiences from Crimea, where many consider themselves still to be Russian, now that's something new ain't it and worth discussing tiphat
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Guys, if you are going to play the 'my knowledge of a single case trumps his knowledge of a generality of cases' game then you can not win.
Assuming that the bloke is being an honest reporter how can you think that your diamond plucked from a dirty barrel means there is no dirty barrel?
If you are going to have a sensible discussion you need to look at the arguments an discuss those, saying 'i love my wife' does not do anything to rebut his points at all. In truth it simply adds to his credibility as the weakness of your attempts at rebuttal can be seen as being the best that can be managed.
But apart from anything else you already KNOW that the business is mucky as buggery so why not try to find out more rather than trying to dismiss this guys, possibly, much greater insight and experience.
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+ 1 Andrew.
It would be good to hear the views of someone who actually worked in a local Ukrainian marriage agency.
I'm sure it will be an interesting read Feosky :popcorn:
It's often said that us westerners don't know for certain what goes on in those agencies,so i'm surprised that certain short-sighted members have belittled someone who has offered to come forward and expose the pitfalls,just because their wives are from Ukraine.
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Im all up for Discussion, and look forward to hearing of the pitfalls, and red flags.
It just annoys me that some people are very quick to tar everyone with the same brush. Yes maybe from this Chaps expeience he may well see all Ukrainians as problematic. i accept that but to say that all Ukrainian woman want want want want.......i have to disagree, and in no way have i ''Belittled'' i have offered my opinion which im certain i am allowed to do!
Andrewfi im not saying there are no ''dirty barrels' im just agains total generalisation as i see time and again on this forum. Yes statistically speaking there appears to be scammer centrals, however you cant say that about very person in Ukraine surley???
I also have made no comment on his English, and i have found his comments easy to read so why some members are saying about his English is beyond me......
Just waiting for a little more info, from Feosky to back up his claims, and give us a few case details.....i wholeheartedly agree it would be very interesting to read, but without total generalising all Ukraine Women as Golddigger, Unemotional Beings!
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This is a mob agency girl. What do you see? Do you see what I see?
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OH PLEASE!
My first reaction to the original post was that with the English cleared up I see very little bad in it. Mostly it is just normal women stuff. Some is a little exaggerated.
More importantly is my second reaction. This is history over and over again. Ex employee cuts down evil agencies and those evil women and then offers his more honest services.
Search for the first post from this man. He offers his services pretty much as an agency. This is nothing more than garbage.
Scott
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Search for the first post from this man. He offers his services pretty much as an agency. This is nothing more than garbage.
Scott
Yep what a couple of guys here don't realise is that the self promotion is only just getting warmed up, his new found, previously unheard of and wonderful method of meeting good women will be coming along very soon (:) and guess who will be able to provide that :'(
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This is a mob agency girl. What do you see? Do you see what I see?
How do you know she's a Mob Girl......did she scam you??
Well what do i see, lol......my wife wont be happy me looking at pics like these :laugh:
Obviously very fake personality, big boobs to attract the boys......Professional picture......how can she afford, the dress im betting is a branded one! make up plastered on......
Have i got it right??
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also a bit of botox by looks of those lips! but if people can't tell the difference between your typical bimbofied woman on these sites they do need to ask the question, would this kinda woman be interested in me in my home country????
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Guys, if you are going to play the 'my knowledge of a single case trumps his knowledge of a generality of cases' game then you can not win.
Assuming that the bloke is being an honest reporter how can you think that your diamond plucked from a dirty barrel means there is no dirty barrel?
If you are going to have a sensible discussion you need to look at the arguments an discuss those, saying 'i love my wife' does not do anything to rebut his points at all. In truth it simply adds to his credibility as the weakness of your attempts at rebuttal can be seen as being the best that can be managed.
But apart from anything else you already KNOW that the business is mucky as buggery so why not try to find out more rather than trying to dismiss this guys, possibly, much greater insight and experience.
Andrew
Perhaps you need to read my post again... where exactly did I say that there are no pro daters/scam artists in mob agencys? Where did I say that because I found my wife on one that I thought that all women were honest with good intentions to find a loving husband on mob sites?
What I was disputing was him insinuating that there were NO good women on the sites, with my finding my wife on one for an example and the fact that he said if you want a loving wife go look in the US for one as another example.
Perhaps next time you should spend more time trying to understand what you are reading.... then perhaps it will add to your credibility as the weakness of your attempt at rebuttel could be seen as the best that you can manage. :chuckle:
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I think that he's very busy--translating letters for ladies at his agency. As well as doing the extreme stuff. Not sure he really understands the format here and how he might make it "work" for him; or how he could better express himself.
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Hi Simo,
I'm glad that you have such nice wife. it is good. I do not want to hurt Ukrainian girl, BUT. I told about woman whis looking for the husband on dating sites. I saw it every day and i know what I say. In Ukraine many nice girl who is very nice and good wife, but you need to know where you will looking for her!
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As I told, before, I talk not about all woman. And yes, here is meny scamers and I'm not shure that you can see from first sight who is the girl (scamer or not) but, all woman looking for the good life. I worked in 4 agency and saw meny girl and can tell you that I know what i know
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I think that he's very busy--translating letters for ladies at his agency. As well as doing the extreme stuff. Not sure he really understands the format here and how he might make it "work" for him; or how he could better express himself.
it's just your thoughts. I not propose you to listen me. I just say what I know. You can make a choice.
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It's often said that us westerners don't know for certain what goes on in those agencies,so i'm surprised that certain short-sighted members have belittled someone who has offered to come forward and expose the pitfalls,just because their wives are from Ukraine.
I'm absolutly agree with you. I would like to share what i know. I can make mistake, BUT! I live in ukraine and i know meny woman who realy looking for the man and I know many woman who tried just scam (we looking for them every day), So I hope my things will be interesting for some one.
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OH PLEASE!
My first reaction to the original post was that with the English cleared up I see very little bad in it. Mostly it is just normal women stuff. Some is a little exaggerated.
More importantly is my second reaction. This is history over and over again. Ex employee cuts down evil agencies and those evil women and then offers his more honest services.
Search for the first post from this man. He offers his services pretty much as an agency. This is nothing more than garbage.
Scott
I would like to ask you about you say. You told me that I'm Ex employee? it is not trouth. I still work. I propose my cervice? Yes I propose. BUT. I never propose any girl and I just would like to share my mind. If you have a good wife from ukraine, I can tell you that you are luсkyб because I know many man who tried find a woman and can't do this. because I wrote on top.
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Guys, if you are going to play the 'my knowledge of a single case trumps his knowledge of a generality of cases' game then you can not win.
andrewfi, if you are going to 'lecture' guys who are happily married to UA women - try to realise that they aren't 'single cases' ....
Assuming that the bloke is being an honest reporter how can you think that your diamond plucked from a dirty barrel means there is no dirty barrel?
Assuming one plucked one's 'diamond' from a 'barrel' at all ? You seem to think we all 'accept' your terminologies / theories like 'MoB' and 'Dirty Barrels' ... your mistake...
If you are going to have a sensible discussion you need to look at the arguments an discuss those, saying 'i love my wife' does not do anything to rebut his points at all. In truth it simply adds to his credibility as the weakness of your attempts at rebuttal can be seen as being the best that can be managed.
These posters aren't JUST saying, "I love my wife" (therefore it can't be true/ my wife is exceptional ) .. they are stating - "I don't recognise the validity of the posters opinion - based on my experience and that of others who post here..
But apart from anything else you already KNOW that the business is mucky as buggery so why not try to find out more rather than trying to dismiss this guys, possibly, much greater insight and experience.
What *I* think is that you often tell us what we should be thinking .... when many of us DO know about Russian / Ukrainian women ... and can judge for ourselves whether a poster's contribution is reasoned.. or without an agenda.
The poster tells us he wants to tells us about RW/ UW - as a result of his experience in Odessa with a Marriage Agency. OF COURSE, his input will be interesting.
Welcome to the board, Feosky. If you have some agenda - perhaps to charge for your advice, please declare it now. Your posts will command more respect if you don't have an agenda.
EDIT: Now I see you've become a "Commercial Member" and HAVE declared you want to offer a service..
Feosky, surprising one's partner - AFTER marriage - is just as important...and that doesn't mean showering her with gifts.. This isn't rocket science, and I need to practice what I preach ;)
Looking forward to reading more of your posts !
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Welcome Feosky
It is good to see you come back here and explain what you were trying to say in your first post. :thumbsup:
It did not sound like you thought there were any good women in marriage agencys, that is why I responded about how I did not believe this and that I met my wife on one.
And to let you know, there are many women in America who are like the bad women in the agencys too. I have spent 200-300 dollars in a night on a lady and didn't even get a kiss! So it is not just in Ukraine that there are women like this! :chuckle:
P.S. I was in Feodosia in March. I enjoyed it there very much. You should feel lucky to live in such a beautiful part of the world!
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Welcome Feosky
It is good to see you come back here and explain what you were trying to say in your first post. :thumbsup:
It did not sound like you thought there were any good women in marriage agencys, that is why I responded about how I did not believe this and that I met my wife on one.
And to let you know, there are many women in America who are like the bad women in the agencys too. I have spent 200-300 dollars in a night on a lady and didn't even get a kiss! So it is not just in Ukraine that there are women like this! :chuckle:
P.S. I was in Feodosia in March. I enjoyed it there very much. You should feel lucky to live in such a beautiful part of the world!
Thank you for your words! and thank you for add photo. It is realy nice place near the sea.
I'm agree with you about woman in any country. I just want to share my mind about woman wich looking for the husband in the agency.
I know meny men have a problem with such woman and would like you to understand what they looking for.
I hope my information was interesting and help some one. I know meny nice persons who realy wont find the woman but when they meet each others, they understand that it is not what he looking for. I see it is every day and would like to help. Yes I work in marriage agency and this is my work, I will be happy to help some one with any questions who realy need my help.
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d672, don't take a knife to a gunfight.
You missed when you were reading that I was not referring specifically to you. You were one of several posters.
In English we have a convention that helps to identify the correct context; here is how it works:
If one writes using a name as I did in the first line of this post you can safely infer that there is just one person being referred to.
If there is no identification then one can infer that the words are addressed generally.
Sometimes one might use a form such as 'you guys' or 'some of you guys' which again gives a clue as to the degree of the generalisation being used in terms of addressing the audience.
My apologies, sometimes I forget that not all readers are native English speakers.
HOWEVER, even if one were to incorrectly assume that a post written to a group of people was toward you in particular then you missed where I noted about exceptions, I made my point perfectly clearly - just because you found a diamond in the shit does not mean the shit does not exist and thus it makes sense to discuss the environment in which you found your own jewel beyond price.
The OP, like you does not have English as a first language but surely you understood that he was not referring to your wife, and that pretty much all communication involves generalisations? It makes sense for you to cut the guy some slack, after all, he, like you, is struggling with English as a second (or third) language.
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You missed when you were reading that I was not referring specifically to you. You were one of several posters.
Ah, the andrewfi 'reading comprehension' excuse ..
In English we have a convention that helps to identify the correct context; here is how it works:
If one writes using a name as I did in the first line of this post you can safely infer that there is just one person being referred to.
OK, and if you write "guys" how are us 'illiterates' supposed to work out who you refer to ... do you CHECK your posts for howlers before posting advice ?
If there is no identification then one can infer that the words are addressed generally.
So, any 'Guy' can reply...
Sometimes one might use a form such as 'you guys' or 'some of you guys' which again gives a clue as to the degree of the generalisation being used in terms of addressing the audience.
My apologies, sometimes I forget that not all readers are native English speakers.
You forget that we aren't mind readers would be more appropriate ;) ...
HOWEVER, even if one were to incorrectly assume that a post written to a group of people was toward you in particular then you missed where I noted about exceptions, I made my point perfectly clearly - just because you found a diamond in the shit does not mean the shit does not exist and thus it makes sense to discuss the environment in which you found your own jewel beyond price.
There you go, again, expounding your 'theory' that our wives must be exceptional..
The OP, like you does not have English as a first language but surely you understood that he was not referring to your wife, and that pretty much all communication involves generalisations? It makes sense for you to cut the guy some slack, after all, he, like you, is struggling with English as a second (or third) language.
Unlike you, we should cut him some slack... until you can realise that your little 'lectures' just irritate / insult most of your intended audience.
You enjoy the 'protection' of certain mods on here, but you are (well) rumbled now..
If you could remove the first couple of paragraphs of most of your responses your posts might get taken somewhat more seriously.
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d672, don't take a knife to a gunfight.
I think you should take some of your own advice!
Moby pretty much said everything I would have told you in his post above... except for a couple things.
Where did I say that I thought you were talking ONLY about me? But being one of the "guys" who posted who are married I definately had every right to answer to your pathetic attempt to discredit us.
And as for cutting the OP some slack... did you even read my last post? If that isn't cutting him slack I don't know what is.
Why don't you go trolling somewhere else Andrew, like in the off topic and heated discussion section. Please don't ruin another thread here with your feeble attempts to try to show you have a higher intellect than us. It is just making you look foolish anyways!
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I think that he's very busy--translating letters for ladies at his agency. As well as doing the extreme stuff. Not sure he really understands the format here and how he might make it "work" for him; or how he could better express himself.
it's just your thoughts. I not propose you to listen me. I just say what I know. You can make a choice.
Privet Feosky,
I think that you misunderstood what I was saying. Others had wondered why you had not come back. I explained (to them) that I thought that you were bust working at the marriage agency, and also busy at Xtreme ( aka Feosky.com ). I also stated that I was not sure that you understood how the rules of the forum work for Commercial Members. or how he could better express himself. -- This is only a reference to the fact that English is not your Native Tongue.
I am more than willing to listen to you; in fact I am eager to here more details about your experiences as an interpreter at a Marriage Agency and much more as well. Please continue your information when you have the time!
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In my experience, it's pretty difficult to read someone's mind. That goes for a man's intentions and a woman's intentions in any given situation. I've been married a few times and been taken for more than any scammer might think was possible by American women. This doesn't mean that there aren't good women here and that doesn't mean that I am going to necessarily improve my chances of finding someone that is compatible with me by visiting Ukraine again.
I do know that I have dated one Russian girl here that was cold and heartless. I also dated a Ukrainian girl (sort of) who got majorly pissed off at me when I handed her cash at the end of my trip... a few hundred hryvna and some random American money and told me that she didn't want my money, didn't need my money, that she had her own money and that what I did tainted everything. That all she wanted to do was spend time with me and get to know me.
I have also corresponded with Ukrainian girls who constantly ask for gifts and are dissapointed when the gift train stops. I have been told that this tells her that I care etc.
Point is, there are all types of women all over this planet. I personally feel as if I have been scammed by more American women than any nationality and I do know of American women who will date a guy just because he has money and spends it freely on them. This type of arrangement isn't unusual and I do have female friends that shock the hell out of me by telling me, "yeah, I'll date him for a while, let him spend money on me and then dump him when someone hotter and younger comes along"
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Hi Feosky, i now understand in what way you will be contributing to this forum, and in what context you were talking about Ukrainian Women.
Yes not all Ukrainian women are scammers, (i was lucky enough to meet my wife in the U.K.) so got to spen 6 very intensive months with her in my climate, and then 2 years on and off in Ukraine)
There are lots of Guys on here who are single, who would deffo need soem insight........(Especially as you said you have worked at 4 agencies)
I apologise if i was too overthe top in my Offense, its just where my Wife and Step Daughter are concerned, no one gets to say bad things about them as they are basically the most normal well heeled women i have ever met!
Thanks for posting back to me and answering why you felt that way. Many Posters here dont like to post back and explain, so well done on that front.
Cheers and looking forward to you posts in the coming future!
Simo
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Also my spelling is terrible, very tired from work so apologies to all!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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This is a mob agency girl. What do you see? Do you see what I see?
Way out of your league.
If I may, Feosky's message may have been lost in translation. I'll use Anteros' MOB girl.
And Feosky, feel free to correct me.
He deals with a lot of YOUNG sexy girls from big cities who were born in an era of materialistic wealth not experienced by their parents. Of course, they want the same things they see in their own media. (Just like here) Enter the IMB and the constant advertising of incredible age gaps.
Many of these girls have lots of young guys dating them but they cannot provide the fur coat and Louis Vitton handbags. In comes the "wealthy" American middle-aged man looking for "love" and hoping to find a wife.
The girls look at these guys with wads of grivnas and they think they hit the lottery. They found their oligarch who will buy anything his trophy wife wants. After all, that is their selling point. What they don't know is that that IS exactly the same behavior the WM have been bitching about WW. Except there is a language barrier.
As Kenny pointed out, he met some of these and also he met serious ones who were interested in the man, not his wallet. Again, lost in translation.
I can postulate that the vast majority of married guys here ended up with the least materialistic ones (the girl next door) and I can understand why some may feel offended. I would feel the same way.
I'm not exonerating Mr. Fi's way off the mark remarks at all.
I believe Feosky is issuing a warning to the single guys here that agencies are loaded with materialistic girls and he can help weed out those.
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This is a mob agency girl. What do you see? Do you see what I see?
Way out of your league.
If I may, Feosky's message may have been lost in translation. I'll use Anteros' MOB girl.
And Feosky, feel free to correct me.
He deals with a lot of YOUNG sexy girls from big cities who were born in an era of materialistic wealth not experienced by their parents. Of course, they want the same things they see in their own media. (Just like here) Enter the IMB and the constant advertising of incredible age gaps.
Many of these girls have lots of young guys dating them but they cannot provide the fur coat and Louis Vitton handbags. In comes the "wealthy" American middle-aged man looking for "love" and hoping to find a wife.
The girls look at these guys with wads of grivnas and they think they hit the lottery. They found their oligarch who will buy anything his trophy wife wants. After all, that is their selling point. What they don't know is that that IS exactly the same behavior the WM have been bitching about WW. Except there is a language barrier.As Kenny pointed out, he met some of these and also he met serious ones who were interested in the man, not his wallet. Again, lost in translation.
I can postulate that the vast majority of married guys here ended up with the least materialistic ones (the girl next door) and I can understand why some may feel offended. I would feel the same way.
I'm not exonerating Mr. Fi's way off the mark remarks at all.
I believe Feosky is issuing a warning to the single guys here that agencies are loaded with materialistic girls and he can help weed out those.
Well said, Muzh...
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Muhz,
+1
Come on guys we have all heard the horror story's, we have all dealt with women just as was written, in our own country's.
Info from the folk that are involved in this adventure's search (married, first hand experience, working in the "industry") is what RUA is all about.
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What they don't know is that that IS exactly the same behavior the WM have been bitching about WW. Except there is a language barrier.
Explanation excellent!
Let's hear it again:
Except there is a language barrier.
I'd guess that in most of these situations the man has a translator. Even when you have a translator, there is a language barrier.
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Feosky,
Welcome here and thanks for your "insights".
My guess based on my experience if the men want to go the route of spending and giving gifts to women, than that is the sort of women they will find. Perhaps this is the 'dirty barell" that Andrew refers to.
My experience is women from the former Soviet Union who are honourable will be honest in there expectations and hopes.
The men who date these women should also be so.
AvHdB
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I am more than willing to listen to you; in fact I am eager to here more details about your experiences as an interpreter at a Marriage Agency and much more as well. Please continue your information when you have the time!
Hi, Yes, I'm happy we undersud each others. Sorry I was not online. we just make rope jumping in Bahchisaray and I can't unswered early. 21 October will be jumping from Shaan Kaya. If some interesting in this and will be in Crimea, it can be possible to test it. It will be like this:
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Hi Feosky, i now understand in what way you will be contributing to this forum, and in what context you were talking about Ukrainian Women.
Yes not all Ukrainian women are scammers, (i was lucky enough to meet my wife in the U.K.) so got to spen 6 very intensive months with her in my climate, and then 2 years on and off in Ukraine)
There are lots of Guys on here who are single, who would deffo need soem insight........(Especially as you said you have worked at 4 agencies)
I apologise if i was too overthe top in my Offense, its just where my Wife and Step Daughter are concerned, no one gets to say bad things about them as they are basically the most normal well heeled women i have ever met!
Thanks for posting back to me and answering why you felt that way. Many Posters here dont like to post back and explain, so well done on that front.
Cheers and looking forward to you posts in the coming future!
Simo
Hi Simo, thank you for understand me, BUT. not all woman from Ukraine is Scamer. I saw interesting facts. I few woman who just meet with man in ukraine only for fun. They walking, speaking, take a gifts, spend time together (without sex or close relationship). BUT when man can show the woman that he can take care of her (not just say) when he make presents wich realy she need, when he bought what she want (often it is not expensive) I see that they stay clother to each other and I know few pair who live together (one pair live in ukraine).
What I want to say: The woman in ukraine (in Russia alsow) not belive in words. They need confirmation of actions. So you never find a good wife if you just promise good life. You need show it to her.
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I believe Feosky is issuing a warning to the single guys here that agencies are loaded with materialistic girls and he can help weed out those.
In My job, I can see meny girls who interesting to meet foreigner man. most of all looking for the good life. BUT, about 90% want to have rich and generous suitor, so, when you meet with ukrainian (Russian woman) never show her that you have not big salary. Show her that you have better life then she can imaging. 90% woman never was abroad, and can't imaging live there.
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.. so, when you meet with ukrainian (Russian woman) never show her that you have not big salary. Show her that you have better life then she can imaging. 90% woman never was abroad, and can't imaging live there.
'great' idea.. lie to someone you think you might want to spend the rest of your life with .. :coffeeread:
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Feosky,
Welcome here and thanks for your "insights".
My guess based on my experience if the men want to go the route of spending and giving gifts to women, than that is the sort of women they will find. Perhaps this is the 'dirty barell" that Andrew refers to.
My experience is women from the former Soviet Union who are honourable will be honest in there expectations and hopes.
The men who date these women should also be so.
AvHdB
I would like you to understand one thing.
THE WOMAN FORM SOVIET UNION NEED TO CONFIRM YOUR WORDS BY ACTION.
Not be shine to by the flowers to her every day when you will be with her (it can be just 1 - 3 rose) and ask her what need her mother when you will invite you to her, you will se that she will be more then grateful to you for this. Many Ukrainian woman appreciate the wealth something more than just attention. it is from bad aconomical. In the future everithing can change.
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.. so, when you meet with ukrainian (Russian woman) never show her that you have not big salary. Show her that you have better life then she can imaging. 90% woman never was abroad, and can't imaging live there.
'great' idea.. lie to someone you think you might want to spend the rest of your life with .. :coffeeread:
Most woman think 2000 - 3000$ very big salary!
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THE WOMAN FORM SOVIET UNION NEED TO CONFIRM YOUR WORDS BY ACTION.
This is true, but and here is the quagmire, the men need to confirm (or at least be semi-convinced) that the women are sincere in there desire to share a life with the man.
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Most woman think 2000 - 3000$ very big salary!
What's a salary? - ( other than something you must pay to others ) if you run your own biz :)
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What's a salary?
Perhaps something green from a small country with allot of women with desperate needs.
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THE WOMAN FORM SOVIET UNION NEED TO CONFIRM YOUR WORDS BY ACTION.
This is true, but and here is the quagmire, the men need to confirm (or at least be semi-convinced) that the women are sincere in there desire to share a life with the man.
Woman interesting only in man, who can make her happy!
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If you know few words on russian, do not hurry up to talk about this. Just wait and you will know many interesting things :)
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THE WOMAN FORM SOVIET UNION NEED TO CONFIRM YOUR WORDS BY ACTION.
This is true, but and here is the quagmire, the men need to confirm (or at least be semi-convinced) that the women are sincere in there desire to share a life with the man.
Woman interesting only in man, who can make her happy!
If you are a half decent bloke without mental disorders, are free from any severe fiscal pressures and you regularly wash your armpits, you too should consider the possibility of being only interested in woman, who can make you happy, and you should never lose sight of the fact that for every one of 'you' there are a thousand of 'them'.
Whilst I don't advocate being 'greedy', if you are having to shower your lady with gifts to prove your seriousness, it's probably time to move on to pastures new ... especially if her Birthday is approaching.
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If you know few words on russian, do not hurry up to talk about this. Just wait and you will know many interesting things :)
:thumbsup: That is very true.
I was at a party one time where there were a number of UK/FSU couples.
My friend's wife and another Russian woman were chatting together in Russian. My friend came up to me and asked if I knew what they were talking about so I said ''Oh just about about jewellery and other things''.
To be honest, I really only understood half of what they were saying but enough to get the gist of the conversation.
They obviously heard me say this as they suddenly stopped talking and gave me a funny look.
Sometime after the party, one of the Russian women that had been there mentioned to me that she found it really amusing that this woman had then gone round all the other Russian women at the party saying just to be careful what they say in front of me because I understand Russian.
It just makes me wonder what else they've been talking about in front of their husbands and other people that would normally be reserved for an entirely female situation.
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If you would like to interesting woman which you meet, do not rush to say that she likes you and compliment, behave as bud-then you have thousands of options and it is one of them (but it is still better than others) feels let competition
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If you would like to interesting woman which you meet, do not rush to say that she likes you and compliment, behave as bud-then you have thousands of options and it is one of them (but it is still better than others) feels let competition
.. did you mention somewhere that you were a translator/interpretor? :reading:
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Unlike in the West, FSU women expect prospective suitors to be bearing gifts. (It is probably backlash to a lifetime of having been showered with empty promises.) An interesting anecdote that I read on Antidate was that "Man who spends all [of his] money on me doesn't have any [to] spend on other woman." The girls were generally in agreement with this. Unfortunately, this attitude complicates differentiating between sincere girls who are willing to commit (but who like gifts) and professional daters who milk shopping for all that it is worth.
People who expect simple rules to apply in every circumstance are likely to make some very bad decisions because every situation that one walks into has to be evaluated based on its own merits. I've been reading rubbish about what FSU women do or don't do for over a decade. The reality is that they are unpredictable and they don't all fit into the same cubbyhole. The sooner that men understand that they have to clear their minds and think on their feet, the more quickly that those feet will get them where they want to be.
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Unlike in the West, FSU women expect prospective suitors to be bearing gifts. (It is probably backlash to a lifetime of having been showered with empty promises.) An interesting anecdote that I read on Antidate was that "Man who spends all [of his] money on me doesn't have any [to] spend on other woman." The girls were generally in agreement with this. Unfortunately, this attitude complicates differentiating between sincere girls who are willing to commit (but who like gifts) and professional daters who milk shopping for all that it is worth.
People who expect simple rules to apply in every circumstance are likely to make some very bad decisions because every situation that one walks into has to be evaluated based on its own merits. I've been reading rubbish about what FSU women do or don't do for over a decade. The reality is that they are unpredictable and they don't all fit into the same cubbyhole. The sooner that men understand that they have to clear their minds and think on their feet, the more quickly that those feet will get them where they want to be.
I couldn't agree more, Tom. I have seen both scenarios play out. One girl that wanted gifts and let me know what she liked as far as perfume, flower etc. Another girl almost seemed annoyed with gifts. Grateful yet annoyed but the gifts that meant the most to her were things that I had made myself that cost nothing.
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Vinn said:
Whilst I don't advocate being 'greedy', if you are having to shower your lady with gifts to prove your seriousness, it's probably time to move on to pastures new ... especially if her Birthday is approaching.
No truer words were ever spoken concerning this pursuit. :nod:
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In My job, I can see meny girls who interesting to meet foreigner man. most of all looking for the good life. BUT, about 90% want to have rich and generous suitor, so, when you meet with ukrainian (Russian woman) never show her that you have not big salary. Show her that you have better life then she can imaging. 90% woman never was abroad, and can't imaging live there.
i cannot say you are wrong , but you shouldnt generalize that......
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thats very True,
they are unpredictable (russian-ukrainan womans)
you never know what is in their mind.....
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BUT, about 90% want to have rich and generous suitor, so, when you meet with ukrainian (Russian woman) never show her that you have not big salary.
If you are suggesting that men should exaggerate their financial strength, then I can't agree. It's much better to leave a golddigger for someone who can afford her and who deserves her.
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I agree with Tom Honesty is the best policy, i managed to show my wife through my actions that i was dependable, romantic, serious, even if i earn less than 23K!!! she knows that i will provide for her! and she doesnt care that i earn this amount.....in this climate of unease she is just happy i have a job i think :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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.. did you mention somewhere that you were a translator/interpretor? :reading:
I mean you need to show to any woman that you just would like to have a choice, and she is just one of them
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Unlike in the West, FSU women expect prospective suitors to be bearing gifts. (It is probably backlash to a lifetime of having been showered with empty promises.) An interesting anecdote that I read on Antidate was that "Man who spends all [of his] money on me doesn't have any [to] spend on other woman." The girls were generally in agreement with this. Unfortunately, this attitude complicates differentiating between sincere girls who are willing to commit (but who like gifts) and professional daters who milk shopping for all that it is worth.
People who expect simple rules to apply in every circumstance are likely to make some very bad decisions because every situation that one walks into has to be evaluated based on its own merits. I've been reading rubbish about what FSU women do or don't do for over a decade. The reality is that they are unpredictable and they don't all fit into the same cubbyhole. The sooner that men understand that they have to clear their minds and think on their feet, the more quickly that those feet will get them where they want to be.
I'm agree with you. But each situation must be addressed individually. Unaversalnyh councils do not exist. Suzhestvuyut only useful advice to the action
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thats very True,
they are unpredictable (russian-ukrainan womans)
you never know what is in their mind.....
You are right. Can not find a general rule for all, but you can follow the general recommendations for the specific case
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If you are suggesting that men should exaggerate their financial strength, then I can't agree. It's much better to leave a golddigger for someone who can afford her and who deserves her.
I told about "not tell her about you not rich man". Of course you can try looking for the girl and tell everyone that you are poor, and you will see, you find no one woman. The FSU woman looking in abroad man only good life! 99%!
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I agree with Tom Honesty is the best policy, i managed to show my wife through my actions that i was dependable, romantic, serious, even if i earn less than 23K!!! she knows that i will provide for her! and she doesnt care that i earn this amount.....in this climate of unease she is just happy i have a job i think :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Simo, I belive that you are good person, and i belive you will have good life with the woman who love you.
The Ukrainian woman can be very careful and thankful. But here I show the recommendation to concerned the woman. How to save energy and money and find good woman in ukraine.
The most of all woman looking for the good life, so you need to show her what she will receive if she marry with you.
So you need to make paradise for her in her country.
The best exemple is Jean Claude Van Dam, he almost live in Kiev and bought the new flat in the center of Kiev for Alena Kaverina.
Fo everything in this life need to pay, so If you would like have young, beautiful woman, be ready to pay for this from your pocket.
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If you are suggesting that men should exaggerate their financial strength, then I can't agree. It's much better to leave a golddigger for someone who can afford her and who deserves her.
I told about "not tell her about you not rich man". Of course you can try looking for the girl and tell everyone that you are poor, and you will see, you find no one woman. The FSU woman looking in abroad man only good life! 99%!
Imagine :) Papya women looking in abroad man only good life too :party0011:
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What's a salary? - ( other than something you must pay to others ) if you run your own biz :)
[/quote]
That comes across as very smug and cocky, hope it wasn't intended as such !!!
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I agree with Tom Honesty is the best policy, i managed to show my wife through my actions that i was dependable, romantic, serious, even if i earn less than 23K!!! she knows that i will provide for her! and she doesnt care that i earn this amount.....in this climate of unease she is just happy i have a job i think :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Simo, I belive that you are good person, and i belive you will have good life with the woman who love you.
The Ukrainian woman can be very careful and thankful. But here I show the recommendation to concerned the woman. How to save energy and money and find good woman in ukraine.
The most of all woman looking for the good life, so you need to show her what she will receive if she marry with you.
So you need to make paradise for her in her country.
The best exemple is Jean Claude Van Dam, he almost live in Kiev and bought the new flat in the center of Kiev for Alena Kaverina.
Fo everything in this life need to pay, so If you would like have young, beautiful woman, be ready to pay for this from your pocket.
Thanks Feosky.
Hopefully my wife thinks so too :laugh: :laugh:
Do you have a kinda of do and dont list in your opinion of what guys new to this should or should not be doing, and how to detect the scam ladies, as i think people may need it spelling out for them....do you have any good examples of people that married???
I agree there are prob lots of men who would like to not spend so much time and energy, and believe that your insights could be of help.
Is Van Dam with Alena Kaverina still???? i saw him in a beer advert and he has got very old looking......but he has money! :laugh:
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Is Van Dam with Alena Kaverina still????
According to my Kiev girlfriend Katya he's still spending a lot of time in Kiev. She had a photo taken with him and your right, he is looking old.
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According to my Kiev girlfriend Katya he's still spending a lot of time in Kiev. She had a photo taken with him and your right, he is looking old.
After 5 divorces, I think we all would.
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According to my Kiev girlfriend Katya he's still spending a lot of time in Kiev. She had a photo taken with him and your right, he is looking old.
After 5 divorces, I think we all would.
WORD!
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What's a salary? - ( other than something you must pay to others ) if you run your own biz :)
That comes across as very smug and cocky, hope it wasn't intended as such !!!
My bad, then.. it should come across as person that takes a variable amount from biz... :chuckle:
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If you are suggesting that men should exaggerate their financial strength, then I can't agree. It's much better to leave a golddigger for someone who can afford her and who deserves her.
I told about "not tell her about you not rich man". Of course you can try looking for the girl and tell everyone that you are poor, and you will see, you find no one woman. The FSU woman looking in abroad man only good life! 99%!
I follow the concept not to tell her anything about my personal assets or lack there of.
It is about two people who want to build a future together not about how rich or poor you are.
Also most of the women who I have been with and know the differences of a high level Western life style to the reality of life in Ukraine/Russia choose there homeland. Why I wonder . . . not entirely sure but they realize the cost in adapting to a different culture is very high.
While I am certain others will toast me I suspect this is part of the reason you see more women under the age of 30 seeking a relationship with a man from the West than 30+.
AvHdB
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What's a salary? - ( other than something you must pay to others ) if you run your own biz :)
That comes across as very smug and cocky, hope it wasn't intended as such !!!
My bad, then.. it should come across as person that takes a variable amount from biz... :chuckle:
Still comes across as smug and cocky !!!
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I told about "not tell her about you not rich man". Of course you can try looking for the girl and tell everyone that you are poor, and you will see, you find no one woman. The FSU woman looking in abroad man only good life! 99%!
[/quote]
I follow the concept not to tell her anything about my personal assets or lack there of.
"It is about two people who want to build a future together not about how rich or poor you are".
That's what it should be about, but i'd tend to agree with Feosky on this one, although my experience is only with Russia. How much money you have is very important. These girls love rich guys. There are lots of rich guys in Russia and they spoil the girls with gifts, money and attention [while they're interested] because they can. There are always exceptions, but the prettier the woman, the deeper your pockets need to be.
However, when the women are over 30-35, and especially if they have a child they seem to go through a positive metamorphosis and they're expectations on everything in life are less and more realistic. again Ukraine seems to be different as it doesn't have oil or gas but many Russians are earning good salaries now especially when you take into consideration their unoficial salaries. Huge numbers drive nice cars and have flats and go on holidays. In fact i've never seen another city with so many Lexus, Toyota Land cruisers, BMW and mercedes Hummers blah blah. So there is lots of money here and the girls of course know it as it's all around them. Maybe Ukraine is different i don't know, but here there doesn't seem to be to many queing to leave. I hear more wanting to leave because of the climate and corruption than lack of money.
If you're looking hot women you better be bringing something damn fine to the table otherwise forget it. Sure it's not hard to date these girls but you won't hold onto them. They're always looking something bigger and better. Lots of hot young girls [ not all] have sponsors [often married] who pay them big sums of money for no strings attached. These girls make hay while they can. I know one girl who got a nice car and a wage that enabled her to go to Moscow and party every weekend with her friends there and still have money for epensive clothes and outfits etc etc Didn't do an hours work and spent all her time getting massages and looking as good as she could. An extreme example but not uncommon.
That is why when i found out about the Pro Dater phenomenon here on this forum it all made sense. :o
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What's a salary? - ( other than something you must pay to others ) if you run your own biz :)
That comes across as very smug and cocky, hope it wasn't intended as such !!!
My bad, then.. it should come across as person that takes a variable amount from biz... :chuckle:
Still comes across as smug and cocky !!!
I don't want to get caught in any cross fire here, but I do agree that moby worded it very badly and my initial reaction was exactly the same as krassavchick's.
However, on the other hand, I can understand the point that - I think - moby is trying to get across. It might perhaps be better explained by something like:-
I wish I had the luxury of a guaranteed salary every month. When you run your own business, the only money you get is what's left over after paying all the bills and making sure that your employees have got their salaries paid in full and on time.
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None of this is really unique to Ukraine or Russia or any other FSU country. Even here in America, I know girls... close friends, who spent time with guys who had lots of money and the desire to spend it on them. They got cars, vacation, weekends away to the islands etc, but when push came to shove, they had little respect for these guys and wound up leaving them once they found someone that they loved who could provide a decent life AND who showed them genuine care and affection. Some of these guys were married and some weren't.
I don't think that women in any country are stupid and there comes a point where reality sets in and they know that they are not a priority in these guy's lives and that they could easily be replaced. They wanted someone that made them feel something and not a "boy with big toys" and the spoiled brat mentality. Looking for someone with a good heart became more important as they judged men by how faithful they might be as a husband and how affectionate a father they might be.
As far as Moby's comment... I wasn't offended at all. I don't think he meant it as being cocky at all.
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Lots of hot young girls [ not all] have sponsors [often married] who pay them big sums of money for no strings attached. These girls make hay while they can. I know one girl who got a nice car and a wage that enabled her to go to Moscow and party every weekend with her friends there and still have money for expensive clothes and outfits etc etc Didn't do an hours work and spent all her time getting massages and looking as good as she could. An extreme example but not uncommon.
Yep; I've seen 'em...
In ten years (or so), when her smoking-hot appearance fades, what remains is an aging, self-absorbed bitch with a sense of entitlement who will cost her victim a fortune to get rid of. It seems to me that this is exactly what most of the guys claim to be running away from. Playing the wealth card is a big, fat loser all the way around. It will attract gold-diggers and turn off sincere girls who might have some qualities that are worth something after the blush is off the rose. ~ Caveat emptor.
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However, when the women are over 30-35, and especially if they have a child they seem to go through a positive metamorphosis and they're expectations on everything in life are less and more realistic. again Ukraine seems to be different as it doesn't have oil or gas but many Russians are earning good salaries now especially when you take into consideration their unoficial salaries. Huge numbers drive nice cars and have flats and go on holidays. In fact i've never seen another city with so many Lexus, Toyota Land cruisers, BMW and mercedes Hummers blah blah. So there is lots of money here and the girls of course know it as it's all around them. Maybe Ukraine is different i don't know, but here there doesn't seem to be to many queing to leave. I hear more wanting to leave because of the climate and corruption than lack of money.
That is why when i found out about the Pro Dater phenomenon here on this forum it all made sense. :o
In fact in Kiev and to a lesser degree outside in the smaller cities of Ukraine it is about the same as Moscow. I have been with the "pro-daters" and with the honest women. There is a difference and I know which I would like to be with on the long term.
Eye candy is wonderful, it melts in you mouth and never reaches your soul.
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Lots of hot young girls [ not all] have sponsors [often married] who pay them big sums of money for no strings attached. These girls make hay while they can. I know one girl who got a nice car and a wage that enabled her to go to Moscow and party every weekend with her friends there and still have money for expensive clothes and outfits etc etc Didn't do an hours work and spent all her time getting massages and looking as good as she could. An extreme example but not uncommon.
Yep; I've seen 'em...
In ten years (or so), when her smoking-hot appearance fades, what remains is an aging, self-absorbed bitch with a sense of entitlement who will cost her victim a fortune to get rid of. It seems to me that this is exactly what most of the guys claim to be running away from. Playing the wealth card is a big, fat loser all the way around. It will attract gold-diggers and turn off sincere girls who might have some qualities that are worth something after the blush is off the rose. ~ Caveat emptor.
The exspression here "Is ridden hard and put to bed wet" when she passes her sold by date it is not pretty or pleasant.
TT as the UK crowd would say - "spot on" for the above.
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Yep; I've seen 'em...
In ten years (or so), when her smoking-hot appearance fades, what remains is an aging, self-absorbed bitch with a sense of entitlement who will cost her victim a fortune to get rid of. It seems to me that this is exactly what most of the guys claim to be running away from. Playing the wealth card is a big, fat loser all the way around. It will attract gold-diggers and turn off sincere girls who might have some qualities that are worth something after the blush is off the rose. ~ Caveat emptor.
[/quote]
indeed, something a few people on here should remember. This particular girl i knew quite well, and she had a good sense of humour and an actual personality which in itself was strange. However, as you said all the partying and particularly the smoking were starting to catch up. She still looked real good but older than her age. At 30 she was more than aware that the gravy train could end at any moment and was looking for a decent guy to marry. But her lifestyle is not something any guy other than a very rich sponsor would take on. I felt sorry for her actually. Contrary to popular belief, girls are not past their sell by date here when they're 30 if they still look nice because the divorce rate is high. Many first marriges come to an end in their late 20's / 30. But they can't hide the lifestyle they've become accustomed to.
None of this is really unique to Ukraine or Russia or any other FSU country. Even here in America, I know girls... close friends, who spent time with guys who had lots of money and the desire to spend it on them. They got cars, vacation, weekends away to the islands etc, but when push came to shove, they had little respect for these guys and wound up leaving them once they found someone that they loved who could provide a decent life AND who showed them genuine care and affection. Some of these guys were married and some weren't.
This is true of any country of course. However, imho there is something unique in the sponsor/girl relationship that i've not seen anywhere else
As far as Moby's comment... I wasn't offended at all. I don't think he meant it as being cocky at all.
I'm sure he wasn't be, that's just how it read to me. I'm not here for pointless tit for tat nonsense, it's pointless. I just past comment on it as it sounded very condescending.
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It's true than ukrainian and russian girls look more the content of the man's wallet than the content of his person...
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It's true than ukrainian and russian girls look more the content of the man's wallet than the content of his person...
Seek and ye shall find what you're looking for.
Re-read Tom and Muzh's posts a few posts up.
You're painting with a rather broad brush, which simply isn't true, although it's easy enough to find gold-digger/high maintenance types in most countries, if that's what you're going after.
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It's true than ukrainian and russian girls look more the content of the man's wallet than the content of his person...
If a man uses cash and possessions as bait, he should not be surprised to catch gold diggers :-X
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I have to agree with Tom and others that bragging about your wealth, even indirectly is probably not a good idea. Not only will it attract the gold-diggers that you will eventually have to ferret out, but it may create unrealistic expectations from a genuine gal you might marry.
My experience tells me that genuine UA women that are serious to marry a WM want to know that you are capable to taking care of the family financially. It is a legitimate concern on their part. Somewhere there is a fine line between assuring her that you can take care of the family vs. providing a luxurious lifestyle.
I have to disagree with the comment that UA women are more interested in the mans wallet than his person. Genuine women interested in a family are as much interested in the dynamics of the family life as they are about money.
After reading much of the warnings about gold-diggers, I added to my profile that it would be necessary for the wife to work to help pay the bills. It pissed off a few based upon the nasty responses I got, but it did eliminate those more interested in the wallet than the person :)
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It's true than ukrainian and russian girls look more the content of the man's wallet than the content of his person...
Worth noting that taking into account the authors opinions of other sites he's been using the chances are it was actually Russian or Ukrainian men that were making his wallet a little lighter, so probably best to take this opinion of FSU ladies with a pinch of salt :-X
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world. Who you are is not interesting for them, how you look like is their only matter and if possible with You can be a man with golden heart, with values, many qualities, depth of soul and mind, respectful, caring, with serious intentions, they are not curious nor interested in the person in themselves. They prefer empty men with poor content but attractive and if possible who can blindly say and do what they want, like a pet. It seems more complicated for them to fall in love than western women, eastern women like themselves before all, on dating sites they want to be complimented and do not have real process of seeking great love and don't intend to know the interlocutor deeply. They behave as if they should be deserved. they want to "receive" but never give nor show.
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I have to agree with Tom and others that bragging about your wealth, even indirectly is probably not a good idea. Not only will it attract the gold-diggers that you will eventually have to ferret out, but it may create unrealistic expectations from a genuine gal you might marry.
My experience tells me that genuine UA women that are serious to marry a WM want to know that you are capable to taking care of the family financially. It is a legitimate concern on their part. Somewhere there is a fine line between assuring her that you can take care of the family vs. providing a luxurious lifestyle.
I have to disagree with the comment that UA women are more interested in the mans wallet than his person. Genuine women interested in a family are as much interested in the dynamics of the family life as they are about money.
After reading much of the warnings about gold-diggers, I added to my profile that it would be necessary for the wife to work to help pay the bills. It pissed off a few based upon the nasty responses I got, but it did eliminate those more interested in the wallet than the person :)
solution is saying like me from the beginning "i'm not rich, i have no money"
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world. Who you are is not interesting for them, how you look like is their only matter and if possible with You can be a man with golden heart, with values, many qualities, depth of soul and mind, respectful, caring, with serious intentions, they are not curious nor interested in the person in themselves. They prefer empty men with poor content but attractive and if possible who can blindly say and do what they want, like a pet. It seems more complicated for them to fall in love than western women, eastern women like themselves before all, on dating sites they want to be complimented and do not have real process of seeking great love and don't intend to know the interlocutor deeply. They behave as if they should be deserved. they want to "receive" but never give nor show.
Well that has to be the biggest load of Bulls Excrement I have ever read.
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but unfortunately true.. truth is often painful
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but unfortunately true.. truth is often painful
Blatent false generalisations are painful.
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To every rule there are exceptions, of course. but this trend is more than real.
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To every rule there are exceptions, of course. but this trend is more than real.
Then i and many guys on here who have married/ are married/ planning to marry are the uber large exception tot hat rule........Don't Generalise Upsylon.
Have you met every Ukrainian Woman born to date???? No...so therefore you are indeed spouting absolute Bull Excrement
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You can quote your colleagues as exceptions who found eastern woman but do you want me to collect other numerous testimonies sharing my view? there is no doubt about this rule unfortunately and better being realist than having fake ideals... i don't generalise i say huge majority are as i described.
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Hey, an angry french guy ;D
Dont judge the garden looking on a carrot ... u cant talk about huge majority of eastern women... if u'r not sex-tourist of course
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not angry, just not a dreamer
you can proceed like with polls
subscribe a dating site and write to 100 FSU women and see the results.
and you'll see the experience will confirm my theory ;-)
do the same with 1000,and you will be sure about it ;-)
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world.
Yes, and when men talk about a woman being a "10" (or "9" or "8" or whatever), I am sure they are rating inner beauty :evilgrin0002: Let me guess, ou are a 50-something man who of course looks 20 years younger chasing 20-year-old "models" trying to buy love and then are disappointed because they either turn you down or take you on expensive shopping trips if they do meet you in person tiphat
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not angry, just not a dreamer
you can proceed like with polls
subscribe a dating site and write to 100 FSU women and see the results.
and you'll see the experience will confirm my theory ;-)
do the same with 1000,and you will be sure about it ;-)
I never try to count all foreigners I've talked, wrote, seen during last 8 years of lurking around inet dating sites ... everyone is still the mystery for me ;D so cant do any generalization :smokin:
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world.
Yes, and when men talk about a woman being a "10" (or "9" or "8" or whatever), I am sure they are rating inner beauty :evilgrin0002: Let me guess, ou are a 50-something man who of course looks 20 years younger chasing 20-year-old "models" trying to buy love and then are disappointed because they either turn you down or take you on expensive shopping trips if they do meet you in person tiphat
better stop guessing... i'm much younger than 50 and far from what the stupidities said, i just notice a global trend and reality. not disappointed in anything for me personally, just realistic about human nature...
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world.
Yes, and when men talk about a woman being a "10" (or "9" or "8" or whatever), I am sure they are rating inner beauty :evilgrin0002: Let me guess, ou are a 50-something man who of course looks 20 years younger chasing 20-year-old "models" trying to buy love and then are disappointed because they either turn you down or take you on expensive shopping trips if they do meet you in person tiphat
better stop guessing... i'm much younger than 50 and far from what the stupidities said, i just notice a global trend and reality. not disappointed in anything for me personally, just realistic about human nature...
Always good to have someone with their finger on the global pulse of how things are for us... along with the life experience that so many of us lack. Thanks for gracing us with your knowledge.
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world. Who you are is not interesting for them, how you look like is their only matter and if possible with You can be a man with golden heart, with values, many qualities, depth of soul and mind, respectful, caring, with serious intentions, they are not curious nor interested in the person in themselves. They prefer empty men with poor content but attractive and if possible who can blindly say and do what they want, like a pet. It seems more complicated for them to fall in love than western women, eastern women like themselves before all, on dating sites they want to be complimented and do not have real process of seeking great love and don't intend to know the interlocutor deeply. They behave as if they should be deserved. they want to "receive" but never give nor show.
Upyslon, Welcome here.
Most women are not superficial they have feeling and sometimes they will share those feelings with men who are sensitive and caring if you win there trust.
While I have female friends and acquaintances from a number of countries the honesty and directness as well sense of adventure in women from Ukraine and Russia, is a very strong and a positive character trait.
Yes there will be the bubble gum brains and I am sure if you look you can find them. And yes there are entitled women, you can find them in lower Fairfield County or in the Gooi. You are welcome to plow and harvest there.
As for women who are honest they abound in Ukraine and Russia, they are clever and when you know them funny and warm.
To consider all women (from the former Soviet Union) as being superficial is disingenuous.
AvHdB
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i just notice a global trend and reality
A true fount of wisdom :ROFL: I hope you do understand that some of us are happily married to wonderful RW :-X
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i just notice a global trend and reality
A true fount of wisdom :ROFL: I hope you do understand that some of us are happily married to wonderful RW :-X
...and have friends there. The guys tend to tell me pretty much what you are saying but they don't want me talking to any woman that they are interested in or their girlfriends. :)
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I agree with upsylon to a large degree. I'm very curious to know his age (sorry for asking private question, let me explain why)
Maybe my assumption is completely wrong, but I think that the misunderstanding between upsylon and those who disagree with him arises from the following:
Most of the westerners here are mature men (ussually middle aged) and they are courting or are married to more mature FSU ladies (+40). Some of these ladies are divorced mothers, raised on the old soviet values and that's why they are more family-oriented. Younger guys like me rarely come into contact with these mature ladies and when it happens by accident, I see that they are really friendly, educated, we can talk about lots of subjects etc.
I think that these mature gentlemen fail to understand the problems that we, the younger guys are facing. I remember the legendary thread by Cosmo from Finland (hehe :), he got lots of good advices from you guys, but they would NOT work for someone dating a 20 and something student.
I'm courting girls in their 20's and early 30's and I must agree with upsylon that there are lot of bad women, such as he described. Blatant materialism, egoism, brutal bitchiness, arrogance, players, timewasters etc... They don't want to make a "cosy home" with you. They want:
Group a) Money, gifts, exotic trips, partying, visa ect. (it's terrible, but I can understand this, who doesn't want?)
Group b) Nothing. Just timewasters - the worst of the worst. They join sites out of boredom. They would reply you without even bothering to check your profile. They consider long letters "boring" and they ussualy communicate only in one-liners, without even asking "how are you" in return. Many of them sit on dating sites for ages cause it's free, obviously not looking for anyone.
There are 1000's of decent american, british, french, italian, german, swedish, dutch and japanese men that they can choose from (or they can choose me, why not, I'm relatively attractive, intellectual and I live quite well), but NO, they "still cannot find the 'adequate' one" among 1000's of suitors. Yeah, sure.
Ussually these girls have boyfriends (there's no reason for a young and attractive girl to be single, she has plenty of locals and non-locals to choose from). Vkontakte, Odnoklassniki and Moy Mir are your friends. Don't be suprised to see photos of them kissing (and much more) with their local boyfriends. No, these women are not just a minority of "rotten apples", they are taking over. The good ones are now a minority of "good apples".
Forget luckylovers, EM and other sites aimed at western customers. There, they write what you want to hear ("cosy home, likes cooking and babies"). A great depcition of what I'm talking about can be found on the russian sites such as loveplanet.ru (not LPM) or mamba.ru, where profiles are ussually filled with garbage such as: "I'm a stervochka (bitch), you can't have me" (with photos on the verge of pornography) or "Not allowed for foreigners!! no outside Moscow!! no turks, no americans, no caucasians (lists ethnic slurs: churki, hachi)" or "I'd trade for no less than BMW, no less than 185 cm height, no less than 25 cm. penis, no less than a vacation in Seychelles, NO THIS, NO THAT!" or "Send gifts if you want a reply! ect...ect".. Why they became so spoiled, arrogant and decadent?
First, the FSU is no longer an isolated part of the world, they are not immune to the global "bitch" trend promoted by the showbusiness. We live in a time of GLOBALISATION. They don't grow with the Red Ridding Hood but with Lady Gaga and "Sex & the City". Their mothers or grandmas suffered to find a decent husband in a country where there was a disbalance between the female and the male populations, see for example the film "Moscow doesn't believe in tears". But now young women have internet, which helps them to be reached by MILIONS of domestic and foreign men. They are a product placed on a huge market now. They receive too much attention, men buy them gifts, pay dinners and vacations, men travel across the globe to unknown countries and go through various troubles to meet them! Well, I would too become spoiled if I was in a such position!
Only Stalin for such women! What Stalin? Beria! Give them a spade in their hands and let them showel cow shit in a kolkhoz in the freezing Kolyma.
Even russian guys get very frustrated (whom you consider privileged because "they have lots of women to choose from" which is NOT really true, depends on one's situation like everywhere). I'd gladly post you examples. Yes, there are VERY VERY GOOD russian women, GOOD AS BREAD, I KNOW, been there, done that many times. I nearly married one of them! Long story.Though she was just a teenage student when we met, she was very serious and responsible person plus sexy, clever and beautiful, all inclusive!
But such are rare and it's not easy to find one. They don't sit all day on dating sites, they study, work and do other useful things. Or, they are already TAKEN. Many of them don't want to even join a dating site, or they delete their profiles, because those sites become more and more discusting (prostitutes, scammers, fakers, various perverts, vulgar men etc...) and they don't want to be members of a such online community anymore.
The conclusion is, I'm glad that many of you have found happiness, no I'm not envying or anything, I wish you luck (knock on wood against bad spells, 'break a leg'), but you must not be blinded by your own personal happiness.
There's a lot of sh.. in this dating business, lots of false advertisement, lots of myths. And try to understand the younger guys (like Cosmo for example), as I'm trying to understand how you look at things from your perspective of mature men.
Also, a message to the russian ladies, don't always take a personal offence when someone is argumentatively criticizing the bad FSU women. It happens too much on many forums that FSU women unite and kick a foreign guy just for telling the truth. And western men ussualy jump in their support either blinded by their own family happiness or probably hoping to win the ladies' affection or out of pure 'gentlemenism'.
Sorry for my long post and the harshness, no I wasn't frustrated or anything, but once someone has to say as it is. (well, actually, there was nothing on TV)
Cheers to all!
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Let's see, when I met my wife she was 26, never married, no children. I was 36 then and had no problem finding decent women to date. Continue on with your generalizations longing, but I will simply say that it comes across as sour grapes to me...
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Let's see, when I met my wife she was 26, never married, no children. I was 36 then and had no problem finding decent women to date. Continue on with your generalizations longing, but I will simply say that it comes across as sour grapes to me...
Let's see when I met my wonderful ex-GF in Russia, whom I had a 4 yr serious relationship with, she was 19, I was 29. Two examples are not the norm Rasputin. Do you understand russian? Open the russian language sites. We should look further than our noses. Now I understand, you take it personally when someone is saying bad things about fsu women, cause you are married to one, but no one offended your wife. I wish all the best to you and your wife (knock on wood, so that evil would not hear and spoil everything, old superstition :) )
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Longing, I am fluent in Russian. Again, continue on with your generalizations... You made bad choices and are bitter. I get it!
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Longing, I am fluent in Russian. Again, continue on with your generalizations... You made bad choices and are bitter. I get it!
A cheap way to undermine someone's opinion: "you're bitter", "sour grapes". The next will probably be: "look yourself in a mirror", "get laid" ect. So predictable.
I never generalized. I said "THERE ARE GOOD RUSSIAN WOMEN, GOOD AS BREAD!" in caps and bolds but you don't see it.
I concentrated on the dark side, cause this thread is started by an ukrainian who wanted to share his or her knowledge on the bad sides of the fsu dating. I'd gladly share my positive experiences, but not here
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Southern Boy,
Welcome here, you make a few good points and I also agree with the difference of women raised under the Soviet regime and those of say the last twenty years.
But there are many women between the age of 26 to 34 who can make a good partner, not with standing a large age difference. Of course if you do not use due diligence you will experience something expensieve.
So tell us a bit more about your self.
AvHdB
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@ longingforthesouth.
Does being 29 class as being middle aged these days??? hell that means im 5 years away from mid life crisis! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry i will have to agree to disagree, However i do agree on some of your points, but i think people looking to marry/ date etc, should be looking away from the major cities as in my humble opinion, they attract the type of men and women that lose their core values.........of course there are always exceptions to these rules, so i dont generalise.
Personally my wife is from the west of Ukraine, and although she has been to England (This is how i met her and eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her) this still doesn't detract her from her core values.
I think those that are on these dating sites are caught in an industry where to make a little bit of money they do pro date, scam or whatever, but noit every single person on Dating sites are out to sting you for all your hard earned money.....
Good luck to everyone who is still looking, hang in there, never send money, and go meet these girls!!!! totally worth it!
Simo
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Southern Boy,
Welcome here, you make a few good points and I also agree with the difference of women raised under the Soviet regime and those of say the last twenty years.
But there are many women between the age of 26 to 34 who can make a good partner, not with standing a large age difference. Of course if you do not use due diligence you will experience something expensieve.
So tell us a bit more about your self.
AvHdB
Hi AAvHdB, I know, I have a fsu dating experience. Not only from 26-34! As I said, my first fsu gf was only a teenager, I was in my late 20's, when we started a 4 years of relationship and in the end we nearly got married. So, there are good fsu women of every age, even among the very young ones!
After that, I've dated other girls of various ages, from teens to late 20's. I had several shorter relatioships and some hmm adventures. Weirdly, some teens were more serious than the women in their late 20's, whom you'd expect to be more mature ("mature", my a$$, but let's not go into details). I also had some unsuccesful dates or met wrong women, which helped me to understand that not all FSU women are angels.
I've never been scammed and I don't intend to be. Also, I've never gone through divorce, dv charges or other extreme stuff some other men went through. But, it doesn't mean that I should not talk about the bad sides of the fsu dating. Been there, done that, I experienced both nice and some bad situations, so I allow myself to voice my opinion.
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I agree with upsylon to a large degree. I'm very curious to know his age (sorry for asking private question, let me explain why)
Maybe my assumption is completely wrong, but I think that the misunderstanding between upsylon and those who disagree with him arises from the following:
Most of the westerners here are mature men (ussually middle aged) and they are courting or are married to more mature FSU ladies (+40). Some of these ladies are divorced mothers, raised on the old soviet values and that's why they are more family-oriented. Younger guys like me rarely come into contact with these mature ladies and when it happens by accident, I see that they are really friendly, educated, we can talk about lots of subjects etc.
I think that these mature gentlemen fail to understand the problems that we, the younger guys are facing. I remember the legendary thread by Cosmo from Finland (hehe :), he got lots of good advices from you guys, but they would NOT work for someone dating a 20 and something student.
I'm courting girls in their 20's and early 30's and I must agree with upsylon that there are lot of bad women, such as he described. Blatant materialism, egoism, brutal bitchiness, arrogance, players, timewasters etc... They don't want to make a "cosy home" with you. They want:
Group a) Money, gifts, exotic trips, partying, visa ect. (it's terrible, but I can understand this, who doesn't want?)
Group b) Nothing. Just timewasters - the worst of the worst. They join sites out of boredom. They would reply you without even bothering to check your profile. They consider long letters "boring" and they ussualy communicate only in one-liners, without even asking "how are you" in return. Many of them sit on dating sites for ages cause it's free, obviously not looking for anyone.
There are 1000's of decent american, british, french, italian, german, swedish, dutch and japanese men that they can choose from (or they can choose me, why not, I'm relatively attractive, intellectual and I live quite well), but NO, they "still cannot find the 'adequate' one" among 1000's of suitors. Yeah, sure.
Ussually these girls have boyfriends (there's no reason for a young and attractive girl to be single, she has plenty of locals and non-locals to choose from). Vkontakte, Odnoklassniki and Moy Mir are your friends. Don't be suprised to see photos of them kissing (and much more) with their local boyfriends. No, these women are not just a minority of "rotten apples", they are taking over. The good ones are now a minority of "good apples".
Forget luckylovers, EM and other sites aimed at western customers. There, they write what you want to hear ("cosy home, likes cooking and babies"). A great depcition of what I'm talking about can be found on the russian sites such as loveplanet.ru (not LPM) or mamba.ru, where profiles are ussually filled with garbage such as: "I'm a stervochka (bitch), you can't have me" (with photos on the verge of pornography) or "Not allowed for foreigners!! no outside Moscow!! no turks, no americans, no caucasians (lists ethnic slurs: churki, hachi)" or "I'd trade for no less than BMW, no less than 185 cm height, no less than 25 cm. penis, no less than a vacation in Seychelles, NO THIS, NO THAT!" or "Send gifts if you want a reply! ect...ect".. Why they became so spoiled, arrogant and decadent?
First, the FSU is no longer an isolated part of the world, they are not immune to the global "bitch" trend promoted by the showbusiness. We live in a time of GLOBALISATION. They don't grow with the Red Ridding Hood but with Lady Gaga and "Sex & the City". Their mothers or grandmas suffered to find a decent husband in a country where there was a disbalance between the female and the male populations, see for example the film "Moscow doesn't believe in tears". But now young women have internet, which helps them to be reached by MILIONS of domestic and foreign men. They are a product placed on a huge market now. They receive too much attention, men buy them gifts, pay dinners and vacations, men travel across the globe to unknown countries and go through various troubles to meet them! Well, I would too become spoiled if I was in a such position!
Only Stalin for such women! What Stalin? Beria! Give them a spade in their hands and let them showel cow shit in a kolkhoz in the freezing Kolyma.
Even russian guys get very frustrated (whom you consider privileged because "they have lots of women to choose from" which is NOT really true, depends on one's situation like everywhere). I'd gladly post you examples. Yes, there are VERY VERY GOOD russian women, GOOD AS BREAD, I KNOW, been there, done that many times. I nearly married one of them! Long story.Though she was just a teenage student when we met, she was very serious and responsible person plus sexy, clever and beautiful, all inclusive!
But such are rare and it's not easy to find one. They don't sit all day on dating sites, they study, work and do other useful things. Or, they are already TAKEN. Many of them don't want to even join a dating site, or they delete their profiles, because those sites become more and more discusting (prostitutes, scammers, fakers, various perverts, vulgar men etc...) and they don't want to be members of a such online community anymore.
The conclusion is, I'm glad that many of you have found happiness, no I'm not envying or anything, I wish you luck (knock on wood against bad spells, 'break a leg'), but you must not be blinded by your own personal happiness.
There's a lot of sh.. in this dating business, lots of false advertisement, lots of myths. And try to understand the younger guys (like Cosmo for example), as I'm trying to understand how you look at things from your perspective of mature men.
Also, a message to the russian ladies, don't always take a personal offence when someone is argumentatively criticizing the bad FSU women. It happens too much on many forums that FSU women unite and kick a foreign guy just for telling the truth. And western men ussualy jump in their support either blinded by their own family happiness or probably hoping to win the ladies' affection or out of pure 'gentlemenism'.
Sorry for my long post and the harshness, no I wasn't frustrated or anything, but once someone has to say as it is. (well, actually, there was nothing on TV)
Cheers to all!
I would like to thank you for this wonderful post which sums up and joins exactly what i think. some here would better read it again and again...
I will reply longer later but i totally agree.
A major part of FSU women are like i described, an increasing part i would say, it doesn't mean "all" because exceptions always are.
category A is about materialism.. garbage girls who don't even respect themselves, how can they respect you and have interest in you. For your cateory B, very true:
They can't see differences between serious men and bad ones because they don't even try to find out WHO they are, after "how are you, what do you do" your discussion is over meaning they don't care of knowing deeply the person, not curious in his person in itself, his values, they have nothing to say, nothing to ask, you are always obliged to ask they barely reply and of course never ask anything about their interlocutor except pictures. they absolutely don't care of the inside of men, his qualities, intentions, character, views, degree of seriousness in his search, values, features, eventual similarities... NO they even don't look at your profile! it's useless to fill a complete profile they are not interesting in anything.. are like empty bottles who think they are the best and we should even be grateful to a beginning of reply!, they are unable to love, unable to have emotional involvement, unable to transmit attention, unable to go in people's soul and mind, often arrogant, unable to be interested in the inner richness and man's content and not curious of his life. They just want to feel by men the high esteem they have of themselves already , nothing more. "Look what you should deserve how wonderful i am do you think you will achieve to attract my intention?" hey we are equals. personally i always focus on my interlocutor's content, who is she and if she has simple, pure and heart and soul. But it is difficult to know because they don't have necessary basic and elementary good sense, too based on egoism and selfishness. personally for long term relationship i won't care of a doll if she is empty, boring, uninteresting, not curious, cold, vanitious, superficial, egoist, stupid... i won't say her what she only expects (and heard thousands of times already anyway) ''oh you have very beautiful eyes, you are so pretty" i will try to know the person she is, but often for her all what matters is receiving attention and compliments (while she could be the worst evil) from dozens of men . Developping deep dialogue, building , process of reciprocal interest is quite impossible with these women. They love themselves first of all, and love what the man can bring or do for her, not the man himself. "Tell me i'm a goddess and give me your car, i will study then your case"... they behave often as pests, most of them have zero human quality, they think make up and a good dress make her the best while they are the worst.
as you said on dating sites plenty are there coz it's free and is entertainment for them, not looking for anyone and waste time of serious men, the sites are happy to welcome them to have greater data base to attract more fishes... but soon you notice these girls are there for nothing and not for serious relationship, how loving without heart, after all no man deserves my intention, i'm too good for them..
i don't understand men who buy them gifts, you can't buy a heart, especially bad and perverted... if a woman feels interest to a man, she doesn't need flowers, jewels or cars, she needs to know more about him and to go furtherin the discussion... but it's already too much asked. they are too drown in their emptiness and superficiality.
ps: to answer your question, under 30
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@ longingforthesouth.
Does being 29 class as being middle aged these days??? hell that means im 5 years away from mid life crisis! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry i will have to agree to disagree, However i do agree on some of your points, but i think people looking to marry/ date etc, should be looking away from the major cities as in my humble opinion, they attract the type of men and women that lose their core values.........of course there are always exceptions to these rules, so i dont generalise.
Personally my wife is from the west of Ukraine, and although she has been to England (This is how i met her and eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her) this still doesn't detract her from her core values.
I think those that are on these dating sites are caught in an industry where to make a little bit of money they do pro date, scam or whatever, but noit every single person on Dating sites are out to sting you for all your hard earned money.....
Good luck to everyone who is still looking, hang in there, never send money, and go meet these girls!!!! totally worth it!
Simo
Hi Simo!
In the very beginning of my post, I said "maybe my assumptions are completely wrong" (I'm not saying that I'm always right, tho I ussualy am) and "most of the westerners here are middle aged..." (not all of them, but I assume most of them are)
I'm very very glad for your success, but one swallow does not a summer make :)
Now I will be a little bit ironic. You say "go and meet those girls, it's worth it" and you even suggest searching in smaller places, outside of the major cities, though you were lucky enough to meet your girl in England :) I assume she was a student of english, so even the language was not a problem.
As far as I can see, you didn't have to travel to an uknown country for the first date somewhere in a god-forgotten town such as Stakhanov, Novoshakhtinsk or whatever, where absolutely no one speak english, risking various troubles?
I have dated in both major cities and in some small towns which most people can't find on a map. I even communicate with girls from restricted cities in Russia, tho it's immposible to get there.
In a small industrial or mining town, you can get a really hot girl... extremely! the women there are fantastic.
However, what if the girl does not show up? Or what if there's no mutual sympathy?
If she's a bitch (and many, esspecially the most attractive ones, unfortunatelly, ARE such), she will tell you goodbye and leave you without even saying "thank you for the dinner", let alone saying "thanks Simo for flying to me 1000s of miles all the way from London to my native Muhosransk".
You my friend, will be stucked in an completely unattractive grey industrial city of like 30.000 people, with nothing to do, no sightseeing, no nightlife, nothing. Chernobyl.
And you know why she can get away with such behaviour? Because, thanks to the internet, her village is now a "GLOBAL VILLAGE" by Marshall McLugansk (c) ;) So, after you are gone, the next day, she'll meet some spaniard, then the day after some german, then some pole, then some uruguayan... Thanks to the internet (Every village idiot has internet now) she can be reached by milions of men from all around the globe, who are spoiling her with gifts, dinners, trips ect. Please don't thionk that if she's from a smaller town, then she's necesarily "uncorrupted" by the "big city". It's not really so. depends on the person of course.
Yes, there are VERY GOOD WOMEN IN THE FSU, but do you understand the risks after this story? You, Simo, were lucky to meet the girl in England. Some don't have such opportunity.
That's why, instead of saying "guys I'm happily married to an ukrianian wife, so I recommend you to go to some small ukrainian town and meet one for you", I'd say "guys, hold on! dont rush! think about everything, get yourself informed, there are lot of dishonest or unreliable women. Where are you going? whom are you meeting? Prepare "plan B" in case things get wrong and so on..."
Please excuse me if I was too harsh. You seem to be a great guy, cheers!
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Rasputin,
Could you speak fluent Russian when you were having such great success with the women of the FSU ?
If so,maybe that would account for the fact that you had no problems with your appeal to them,and all of them were so sincere with you ?
I'm sure you're aware that most men in this endevour do NOT speak Russian.
Or maybe you are very wealthy and look like Brad Pitt ?
I ask this because your ease in finding many decent women in their twenties to date in the FSU goes against what the vast majority of men,regardless of their age, are experiencing.
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In 3 + years I have found all that upslon, 'south say to be true. IMHO
Have a Russian GF, here local, and she would point out her daughter as a prime example of type A. ( so would I, but just do not say it;)).
Notice they state clearly, general cultural characteristics of FSU women, heck some things in common with women all over the planet.
I am no expert by any means, but to wit. Russians in general are:
Very direct, do not apologize, very concerned with image, do not back down even when totally wrong.
These are cultural characteristics. Generalisations for sure. But these characterisations can be found through out the threads here on RUA.
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Is it me or do the last few replies on this thread represent the most baloney I've ever read on this forum? FWIW I'm not insulted because my wife is Russian I'm actually insulted because what is being said is complete overally generalistic stereotyped rubbish from a bunch of guys who have/are clearly making bad choices!!!
Seriously if you can't do it fellas don't go around blaming everything and everybody else, you know what they say about a bad workman - yep, he's always blaming the tools he's got for the job! Of course its everybody else's fault but your own, FYI I've heard that mirrors can be purchased quite cheaply nowadays, failing that a darkened window can provide the same affect, try looking in it - the person with the answers to your problems will be the one looking back at you!
Feel free with the insults guys, as with all fairness I've heard them all before :thumbsup:
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Is it me or do the last few replies on this thread represent the most baloney I've ever read on this forum? FWIW I'm not insulted because my wife is Russian I'm actually insulted because what is being said is complete overally generalistic stereotyped rubbish from a bunch of guys who have/are clearly making bad choices!!!
Seriously if you can't do it fellas don't go around blaming everything and everybody else, you know what they say about a bad workman - yep, he's always blaming the tools he's got for the job! Of course its everybody else's fault but your own, FYI I've heard that mirrors can be purchased quite cheaply nowadays, failing that a darkened window can provide the same affect, try looking in it - the person with the answers to your problems will be the one looking back at you!
Feel free with the insults guys, I'm not the one with the inadequacies and with fairness I've heard them all before :thumbsup:
Funny guy BL, that is about all you should take so personal, remember we all have differant experience's, out looks and life styles.
Yours is only one of millions. But thanks for your opinion also.
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Funny guy BL,
I know ;D
But thanks for your opinion also.
You're welcome tiphat
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More than the wallet they are all superficial. They care only on outside aspects, the surface but are not interested in the inside, the content, the inner world. Who you are is not interesting for them, how you look like is their only matter and if possible with You can be a man with golden heart, with values, many qualities, depth of soul and mind, respectful, caring, with serious intentions, they are not curious nor interested in the person in themselves. They prefer empty men with poor content but attractive and if possible who can blindly say and do what they want, like a pet. It seems more complicated for them to fall in love than western women, eastern women like themselves before all, on dating sites they want to be complimented and do not have real process of seeking great love and don't intend to know the interlocutor deeply. They behave as if they should be deserved. they want to "receive" but never give nor show.
If this post is the sum of your lifes experience with the opposite sex I truly pity you.
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Longing, I am fluent in Russian. Again, continue on with your generalizations... You made bad choices and are bitter. I get it!
A cheap way to undermine someone's opinion: "you're bitter", "sour grapes". The next will probably be: "look yourself in a mirror", "get laid" ect. So predictable.
Nope, sex won't help you. Finding a good woman is not hard. Look for the women who worked hard to finish their studies. Looked at the women who strived in their jobs. Look at the women who have goals and ambitions and thinks more than what shade of lipstick they will wear tomorrow. The problem is that you certainly pursued a certain type of woman and now that you have not succeeded with those women you want to blame all Russian women or at least many/most/whatever for your failings.
I concentrated on the dark side, cause this thread is started by an ukrainian who wanted to share his or her knowledge on the bad sides of the fsu dating. I'd gladly share my positive experiences, but not here
You want to avoid the dark side? Easy. Simply don't sign up for the A-Webs or other such agencies. Then remember that if it seems to be too good to be true, it almost certainly is...
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If you want to avoid the dark side, avoid russian and ukrainian girls. as simple as that.
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Could you speak fluent Russian when you were having such great success with the women of the FSU ?
Yes, I did, and yes it helped. More important, was knowing what kind of woman would make a good wife and pursuing those types of women.
I'm sure you're aware that most men in this endevour do NOT speak Russian.
Yes, but it is not the lack of Russian that is the impediment, it is unrealistic expectations.
Or maybe you are very wealthy and look like Brad Pitt ?
Nope and well maybe on a good day with the right camera angle :biggrin:
I ask this because your ease in finding many decent women in their twenties to date in the FSU goes against what the vast majority of men,regardless of their age, are experiencing.
Yes, if the vast majority of the men are trying to date the stunning photoshopped to perfection images of women in the pay-per-letter agencies then yes they certainly won't have much success dating women in their early twenties. Likewise, if they choose women solely for their looks and are willing to pay whatever it takes to date them, then yes the majority will meet women who are only interested in them for their money....
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If you want to avoid the dark side, avoid russian and ukrainian girls. as simple as that.
Then, do that. Nobody is forcing you to date internationally. Go apply your dating strategies to the local women, and then report back on your success :Zzzzsleep:
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@ longingforthesouth.
Does being 29 class as being middle aged these days??? hell that means im 5 years away from mid life crisis! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry i will have to agree to disagree, However i do agree on some of your points, but i think people looking to marry/ date etc, should be looking away from the major cities as in my humble opinion, they attract the type of men and women that lose their core values.........of course there are always exceptions to these rules, so i dont generalise.
Personally my wife is from the west of Ukraine, and although she has been to England (This is how i met her and eventually plucked up the courage to talk to her) this still doesn't detract her from her core values.
I think those that are on these dating sites are caught in an industry where to make a little bit of money they do pro date, scam or whatever, but noit every single person on Dating sites are out to sting you for all your hard earned money.....
Good luck to everyone who is still looking, hang in there, never send money, and go meet these girls!!!! totally worth it!
Simo
Hi Simo!
In the very beginning of my post, I said "maybe my assumptions are completely wrong" (I'm not saying that I'm always right, tho I ussualy am) and "most of the westerners here are middle aged..." (not all of them, but I assume most of them are)
I'm very very glad for your success, but one swallow does not a summer make :)
Now I will be a little bit ironic. You say "go and meet those girls, it's worth it" and you even suggest searching in smaller places, outside of the major cities, though you were lucky enough to meet your girl in England :) I assume she was a student of english, so even the language was not a problem.
As far as I can see, you didn't have to travel to an uknown country for the first date somewhere in a god-forgotten town such as Stakhanov, Novoshakhtinsk or whatever, where absolutely no one speak english, risking various troubles?
I have dated in both major cities and in some small towns which most people can't find on a map. I even communicate with girls from restricted cities in Russia, tho it's immposible to get there.
In a small industrial or mining town, you can get a really hot girl... extremely! the women there are fantastic.
However, what if the girl does not show up? Or what if there's no mutual sympathy?
If she's a bitch (and many, esspecially the most attractive ones, unfortunatelly, ARE such), she will tell you goodbye and leave you without even saying "thank you for the dinner", let alone saying "thanks Simo for flying to me 1000s of miles all the way from London to my native Muhosransk".
You my friend, will be stucked in an completely unattractive grey industrial city of like 30.000 people, with nothing to do, no sightseeing, no nightlife, nothing. Chernobyl.
And you know why she can get away with such behaviour? Because, thanks to the internet, her village is now a "GLOBAL VILLAGE" by Marshall McLugansk (c) ;) So, after you are gone, the next day, she'll meet some spaniard, then the day after some german, then some pole, then some uruguayan... Thanks to the internet (Every village idiot has internet now) she can be reached by milions of men from all around the globe, who are spoiling her with gifts, dinners, trips ect. Please don't thionk that if she's from a smaller town, then she's necesarily "uncorrupted" by the "big city". It's not really so. depends on the person of course.
Yes, there are VERY GOOD WOMEN IN THE FSU, but do you understand the risks after this story? You, Simo, were lucky to meet the girl in England. Some don't have such opportunity.
That's why, instead of saying "guys I'm happily married to an ukrianian wife, so I recommend you to go to some small ukrainian town and meet one for you", I'd say "guys, hold on! dont rush! think about everything, get yourself informed, there are lot of dishonest or unreliable women. Where are you going? whom are you meeting? Prepare "plan B" in case things get wrong and so on..."
Please excuse me if I was too harsh. You seem to be a great guy, cheers!
No she wasnt studying English, and Her English speaking was next to non Existant.....(Hopefully you understand the circumstances she was here in U.K.)
The first time i travelled alone to Ukraine, and was met at the Railstation in Kiev, i spoke no Ukrainian / Russian, i used a guide book and phrase book. and my Ukrainian sucks lol
Of course if a person is stupid enough to chat with a girl online and meet her in Ukraine or where ever in a few dates or letters, then you do need shooting, i never said go meet them right away, that goes without saying that you must check double check and triple check, ergo near illiminating the possibility of being scammed etc etc...yes i totally agree have aback up plan.....
also men need to date within their league or slightly higher, nothing wrong with that....but you must ask yourself would a girl of this calibre be interested in you in your own country.....highly unlkikely and if she was i bet it would be for your wallet....
I stick by what i say, as for the lady being less than desirable, that is what skype is for, chat talk and you will soon get an understanding.
If i can survive in a small Ukrainian Village with next to no practical Russian / Ukrainian then im sure others will be fine.
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Let's see, when I met my wife she was 26, never married, no children. I was 36 then and had no problem finding decent women to date. Continue on with your generalizations longing, but I will simply say that it comes across as sour grapes to me...
How many years ago were you 36 Rasputin? If it has been 10 years or so which I suspect it has you should be very aware that the world has changed very very much since then. If you like to be Pollyanish that is your choice however those of us on our quest currently know that lookingforsouth has spoken 99.9% the truth.
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Yes, but it is not the lack of Russian that is the impediment, it is unrealistic expectations.
and its that statement alone which is why so many continue to fail over and over again and run across so many so called scammers (:)
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Has there been changes in the game in the past 10 years?
Yes, of course there have. Standard of living has improved. Western Culture is more prominent. Access to inet.
But do those changes mean it is harder to find someone in the FSU, or should I say Ukraine/Russia?
No.
The Struggling Men searching.
I have met and witnessed many WM in Ukraine who are very deluded in their quest. They have this strange belief that just because they come from the UK, US or wherever, they are automatically a good catch for the local woman. Or they think by throwing the cash around like confetti, they will attract, what they think, they want. Instead all they get are the ones being talked about on here, the Good Time Girl/Gold Digger and Time Waster. These same men will also drone on about how all women in there own country are fat, soulless blah blah blah. More often than not, they have self esteem issues (probably other issues too), will sometimes have a Victim Mentality or they can be incredibly arrogant and controlling. Often won't except any responsibility for their own failings. Then they moan at how difficult it is to find a good woman.
Those Money Grabbing, GTG Women
I know some of these type of women. Often have a sense of entitlement, everything evolves around them and often will take zero responsibilty for themselves. Often think that all men love them and want their bodies. Complain they can't find a good man. In effect, they are just the Female version of the struggling Man. Oh and you can find these women in any country, anywhere in the world.
Is it no small wonder that these Men and Women have a habit of finding each other.
This leaves the normal stable men and woman to find each other. The type of people who can work out if your any of the above, way before any meeting, usually through a bizzare concept known as communicating.
It does surprise me though that any FSUW would want to go through this search after witnessing some of the c :censored: p they have to go through from men or should I say boys.
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Why are there so many put downs of the guys that do not go along with the "common wisdom"?
As far as one statement I read in this thread, about all Russian/Ukrainian women being scamers, yeah I have to call BS, and the advise given about do not search there is right on.
But calling the guy a looser, or what ever has been implied by some of the posters here is BS also.
The world has/ is changing, faster then most folk want to admit, right now one of the few booming economies on this planet is in Russia, and as always the rich get richer, they are buying the cream of the crop in women in these country's, same as in any western country.
For some of the older guys,(yeah I am one 58), get a clue, big difference between what we deal with, and what a 20-35-40 YO deals with, looking for. every one is differant, we are here to help, not put down, not call names, not impose our set of experience's on some one else.
There are some lousy gals all over this planet, FSU are no differant, your reasons/excuses for a FSU search for a wife do not hold water any more, never did. It is a personal preference. Do not make a seeker a victim of your prejudices, world view, understand each has their own, just as valid as yours.
Hey bottom line you are not GOD with your experience written on stone.
I have yet to meet a FSU gal that can not defend her self, country, and honor.
All IMHO
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How many years ago were you 36 Rasputin? If it has been 10 years or so which I suspect it has you should be very aware that the world has changed very very much since then. If you like to be Pollyanish that is your choice however those of us on our quest currently know that lookingforsouth has spoken 99.9% the truth.
It was only 5 years ago. I am in Moscow right now and will be traveling to my wife's city for a week. I can affirm that not much has changed :-X If I were 36 doing it all over again, it would be no more difficult not than then.
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There are a few threads on this forum from guys that have successfully dated girls that might fit into the categories that we are talking about. I know that Christianv has dated quite a few girls in Odessa, of all places, and seems to have a way of charming them out of their stereotypical role. But then again, I don't think that Christian is your typical guy.
Once again though, I do find it strange that the Ukrainian and Russian guys that I have known in my life (years past and present day) have a very different view of women and how they should be treated. The guys that I know today, again, are against me coming to Ukraine to meet women and they definitely do not want me talking to their girlfriends or any women that they are interested in even though all they want to do is f:censored:k them. I am sure that not ALL Ukrainian and Russian guys are like this but this has been my experience as of late.
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How many years ago were you 36 Rasputin? If it has been 10 years or so which I suspect it has you should be very aware that the world has changed very very much since then. If you like to be Pollyanish that is your choice however those of us on our quest currently know that lookingforsouth has spoken 99.9% the truth.
It was only 5 years ago. I am in Moscow right now and will be traveling to my wife's city for a week. I can affirm that not much has changed :-X If I were 36 doing it all over again, it would be no more difficult not than then.
I disagree. Online dating has changed a lot for these 5 years. Have you used Luckylovers? First I discovered it in 2005, when I met my first russian love. It was completely different than it is now.
Not everyone had internet in the fsu back then, and those few who had it at home, used crappy dial up or wrote from work or internet caffe, so every message was a treasure, we would wait for each with great excitement.There were so many interesting girls, many nice chats with them, they would write long letters and sweet things, they'd curiously ask questions.
I'd send a burned audio CD to my girl by snail mail, she would jump from joy! In return, she was sending me greeting cards (real, paper ones). She had to scan her photos to send them, not everyone had digital camera, each photo she would send me by email was a treasure! Very simple and naive times! Everyone was very polite (surely there were some rotten apples). I'm not saying that everything was rosy, surely there were some scammers or timewasters back then, but generaly it was better than it is now.
It was something new for most of the people and so it was interesting and exciting. There were so many interesting people there and I mean individuals (I'm talking both about women and men) and most of them took online dating seriously. There were lot of interesting discussions in the old forum (sometimes disagreements, but nothing too extreme). There was one elvis guy from memphis, then one long haired heavy metal guy wiz, then one jewish guy who converted to orthodoxy who sadly passed away, then one scottish guy, some fbi guy, lots of interesting english people, one "alternative" type of a girl from Finland and even one from Morocco. It was a colorful community.Even some american girls were writting to me. You see, I remember them all, cause each of them was unique. They even organized some group gatherings in Kiev and there're videos on youtube.
And now go to LL, you'll see it's like a graveyard. I litteraly spit on the monitor each time I go there. Not many new members, many fake profiles, some just sit for ages not looking for anyone, the response rate is very low (in the past, I was receiveing a fair amount of replies, not 1000's but enough, now no one even bothers to check the profile). It's slowly but surely dying.
Now every moron has broadband internet and plenty of sites to choose from: facebook, twitter, vkontakte, odnoklassniki, moy mir, many russian dating websites ect... The economy of Russia got better and thanks to the internet the fsu women learned that not everything is ideal abroad, so many don't consider marrying a foreigner and leaving anymore, now they can be reached by milions of local men on local dating sites.
Where those interesting people have gone, I don't know. Some married, some are still single, some went through dissapointments, in any case, the site is not what it used to be. Thanks God you are married now, otherwise you would need to use the site and you'd see that it changed to much worse.
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Not everyone had internet in the fsu back then, and those few who had it at home, used crappy dial up or wrote from work or internet caffe, so every message was a treasure, we would wait for each with great excitement.There were so many interesting girls, many nice chats with them, they would write long letters and sweet things, they'd curiously ask questions.
You have confirmed what I was saying about men having unreal expectations. Women, will rarely treasure ever message they receive from a guy they have yet to meet in the early stages.... So, yes, if you expect to be able to write women and that they will worship every message then you are likely going to attract women with an agenda who will be playing you.
I'd send a burned audio CD to my girl by snail mail, she would jump from joy! In return, she was sending me greeting cards (real, paper ones).
Again, it was not realistic then, and not realistic then to think that women would "jump for joy" just because you sent them a CD.
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If you want to avoid the dark side, avoid russian and ukrainian girls. as simple as that.
You're on the wrong forum. Try antidate.org and give the girls my regards.
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I read this thread from start to present and initially had the same impression as most of us old farts have posted. I am now wondering if there is some merit to the observations and opinions that the younger guys are expressing.
Surely the world has changed significanly in the past 5-10 years as far as cutures and values. Most of us over 40 were raised in families with traditional family values and women behaving in this manner would leave town in shame. Things have changed!
Just being in a crowd where there are young women talking, you can overhear discussions that includes language and topics never heard in our time. My brief on line experience included a LOT of women that wanted cyber sex on line (for money). I have to admit, it is difficult at our age to believe or understand the new generations, their values, their new cultures, and how one would function in it if we were their age.
I certainly agree with the comments to try and find the kind of lady that has the traditional family values you are suggesting. I am just wondering how much more difficult it is in todays world. I can tell you with certainty, that in much of the US it would be more difficult. The girl next door isn't what she was 10-20 years go.
I don't necessarily think it is a case of sour grapes for the younger posters, I am more inclined to think it is what they experienced and I have no reason to believe that they have unrealistic expectations unless they are seeking the same thing we did when we were searching. I hope their experiences and generalizations are not the norm, but seeing the culture changes in the US over the past 10-20 years, it is at least a possibility.
We need to hear more from the 20+ year old crowd to see if their experiences are similar before jumping to any conclusions.
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Not everyone had internet in the fsu back then, and those few who had it at home, used crappy dial up or wrote from work or internet caffe, so every message was a treasure, we would wait for each with great excitement.There were so many interesting girls, many nice chats with them, they would write long letters and sweet things, they'd curiously ask questions.
You have confirmed what I was saying about men having unreal expectations. Women, will rarely treasure ever message they receive from a guy they have yet to meet in the early stages.... So, yes, if you expect to be able to write women and that they will worship every message then you are likely going to attract women with an agenda who will be playing you.
I'd send a burned audio CD to my girl by snail mail, she would jump from joy! In return, she was sending me greeting cards (real, paper ones).
Again, it was not realistic then, and not realistic then to think that women would "jump for joy" just because you sent them a CD.
You intentionally fail to notice that I started a 4 years of relationship with that girl, whom I sent a cheapass burned audio cd to. Yes, she was jumping to joy. You can envy if you want, that's your problem. Also consider, that back then they couldn't download music so easily with their crappy dial up, so this (now) stupid CD meant a lot to her,
I have "conquered" many attractive girls, some of them teenage and even virgins without paying fancy dinners or bringing too expensive gifts. On one ocassion, I've taken to bed a model (ok, not a top model, but still) by bringing a simple Macedonian ajvar (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Ajvar_hot_Podravka.jpg) while other men were spoiling her with flowers and parfumes with no result.
Not that I'm stingy, but I don't want to be used. Women "with agendas" rarely write me (I'm not from the US or the EU, so I rarely get targeted by such women, and even if it happens, they can't pass our Balkanian BS detectors. We're not easy to fool). I do buy expensive presents and I do pay vacations only after a serious relationship is established and after I know the person better.
I mentioned the burned CD, just to show you that back then, there were people who appreciated simple gifts, even simple as a STUPID burned Princo audio cd, but sent from the heart. You completely failed to understand what kind of women I'm looking for. I'm looking for people who appreciate, who have heart. I have realistic expectations! But I wouldn't go for any overweighted or ugly woman that no one wants to take! I have my standards.
And yes, every message was a treasure, both for me AND for the girl, the girls (most of them) were very thankful for each one I'd send and they would take a time to answer properly. Their internet was a crappy dial up, expensive and unstable or some didnt have it at all, so whenever they could write, they would use the opportunity to write as much as possible, not just idiotic one-liners. Sometimes I'd just send a compliment to a girl that I knew I have no chance with, and strangely, she would send a thank note back.
There were people who APPRECIATED things. Now, you can send diamonds if you want, no one will even bother to check your profile. There are exceptions, there are still many good women, of course! I'm right now communicating with few of such! But it's not SO easy to find them. And I don't know where it will lead.
Now you are happily married and you are not in a search, so I don't think you know the current situation better than me. of course, I don't say i'm always right.
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My, quite the complex is coming through. Just so you know, I have been going regularly to Russia for 16 years or so, so I would wager that I have accumulated a bit of experience over this time :biggrin: I will affirm that the 40-year-and-older traditional woman angel versus the under-40-free spending woman of loose morals dichotomy is false. There are plenty of wonderful young women and no shortage of older women who will use and abuse men with gusto.
Honestly, if a woman truly "jumped for joy" because I sent her a CD, I would begin to wonder. Appreciate the gesture, great! Say thank you, wonderful! Expect undying love out of it, a bit odd.
Also, I have to say that your comment about conquering teenage virgins comes across as very, well, immature at best, a bit creepy at worst...
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My, quite the complex is coming through. Just so you know, I have been going regularly to Russia for 16 years or so, so I would wager that I have accumulated a bit of experience over this time :biggrin: I will affirm that the 40-year-and-older traditional woman angel versus the under-40-free spending woman of loose morals dichotomy is false. There are plenty of wonderful young women and no shortage of older women who will use and abuse men with gusto.
Honestly, if a woman truly "jumped for joy" because I sent her a CD, I would begin to wonder. Appreciate the gesture, great! Say thank you, wonderful! Expect undying love out of it, a bit odd.
Also, I have to say that your comment about conquering teenage virgins comes across as very, well, immature at best, a bit creepy at worst...
Yes, the dichotomy is false. There are MANY NICE AND BAD FSU WOMEN OF EVERY AGE. But if you were single now, and go to some dating site, you will not find the nice ones very easy.
Please explain, Rasputin, you have travelled to Russia many times during the past 16 years, so did you meet your wife online or in real life (in an university of example?)
If it's so, I wouldn't say that you are a typical FSU dater, like most of the WM. You met your wife 5 years ago, which means that before meeting her, you already had an experience with Russia and it's girls. I guess you already learned the language before meeting her and you already knew about the russian society, the mentality and the do's and dont's. Many online seekers dont have that privilege. Please correct me if I misunderstood something.
Yes there was a great love between me and my first russian gf. Not undying but it lasted long. The CD is a minor detail, don't get too obsessed with the CD. I can send you a CD if you want. I'm just saying that she was appreciating small things, if they come from the heart. I conquered her not with the CD, but with my qualities. She was a beautiful person, classy, played piano, spoke french, she was good in kitchen, my parents adored her etc.. I was her first boyfriend. That's why I mentioned virgins. I'm sorry, if it sounded too rough, like i am a sort of maniac or something.
While that lasted, I was blinded by my own personal bliss, and i was thinking just like you now "all russian women are angels, all russian women like to cook, all russian women are romantic and faithful, they go to church etc... the bad ones are just a minority of rotten apples, cause you see I have a russian gf and she's perfect so my case is the norm".
But after that ended, I was single again and I had to face the real world and find out that not all russian women are pure angels like her. Luckily I have never been scammed, but I was dissapointed.
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The CD is a minor detail, don't get too obsessed with the CD. I can send you a CD if you want.
That's okay, I am perfectly capable of buying music that I want from iTunes. Sorry, but the CD thing came across as a bit adolescent: the teenage boy making a mixed tapeCD for the woman that he liked, hoping that she will fall for him :coffeeread: A very popular meme for teenage movies :)
While that lasted, I was blinded by my own personal bliss, and i was thinking just like you now "all russian women are angels, all russian women like to cook, all russian women are romantic and faithful, they go to church etc... the bad ones are just a minority of rotten apples, cause you see I have a russian gf and she's perfect so my case is the norm".
Where did I say that I thought all Russian women are angels? Again, my point is simple: there are many wonderful young women, plenty of not-so-wonderful ones as well and that the same is true of older women. I just disagree with your point that it is impossible for normal and decent guys to date women in Russia :biggrin: But, you are right, however, in that I believe that the rotten apples are a minority when you meet real women, living real lives in Russia. It is just that the good women tend to be married and of course almost all Russian women aren't looking for a foreign man online. Instead, you are more likely to find them on local Russian dating site :-X That was true five years ago, and is still true today.
But after that ended, I was single again and I had to face the real world and find out that not all russian women are pure angels like her. Luckily I have never been scammed, but I was dissapointed.
You were dumped, it hurts, you are getting over the relationship and see the world as grim and dark. You will eventually get over it and when you do you will all of sudden start noticing all these new angels around you :evilgrin0002: Such is life...
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The CD is a minor detail, don't get too obsessed with the CD. I can send you a CD if you want.
That's okay, I am perfectly capable of buying music that I want from iTunes. Sorry, but the CD thing came across as a bit adolescent: the teenage boy making a mixed tapeCD for the woman that he liked, hoping that she will fall for him :coffeeread: A very popular meme for teenage movies :)
While that lasted, I was blinded by my own personal bliss, and i was thinking just like you now "all russian women are angels, all russian women like to cook, all russian women are romantic and faithful, they go to church etc... the bad ones are just a minority of rotten apples, cause you see I have a russian gf and she's perfect so my case is the norm".
Where did I say that I thought all Russian women are angels? Again, my point is simple: there are many wonderful young women, plenty of not-so-wonderful ones as well and that the same is true of older women. I just disagree with your point that it is impossible for normal and decent guys to date women in Russia :biggrin: But, you are right, however, in that I believe that the rotten apples are a minority when you meet real women, living real lives in Russia. It is just that the good women tend to be married and of course almost all Russian women aren't looking for a foreign man online. Instead, you are more likely to find them on local Russian dating site :-X That was true five years ago, and is still true today.
But after that ended, I was single again and I had to face the real world and find out that not all russian women are pure angels like her. Luckily I have never been scammed, but I was dissapointed.
You were dumped, it hurts, you are getting over the relationship and see the world as grim and dark. You will eventually get over it and when you do you will all of sudden start noticing all these new angels around you :evilgrin0002: Such is life...
ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
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I don't think longing has asserted the majority of FSU are rotten apples.
I think I "get" what he is saying - correct me if I'm wrong, longing.
Back in the day, when having an internet connection, particularly in Eastern Europe, was less common, it was easy to filter profiles to find women you were interested in. Now, for longing, it is like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack. He has to go through a lot of uninteresting (to him) women, based on snippets of information, from women who are inundated with replies from around the world, to find but one who may catch his eye, and vice versa.
I found the CD story charming, rather than adolescent. My sister pressed the first flower her husband, at that time, her high school sweetheart, gave her in a book, and still has it. I had a friend in Warsaw send me, and probably more so, my husband, two CDs, one of rare Ukrainian folk songs from a Polish group who lived in Ukraine, the other of even rarer classical recordings. The friend is the same age as my husband, and their cultural references are very similar. Anything the friend asks about, my husband knows, and vice versa. I was no adolescent when I received that CD, but I really appreciated the effort my friend put into selecting and recording that music, some of which was new to me, and others of which I hadn't heard in two decades.
I suspect what longing described is a very Eastern European thing, and you perhaps have to be Eastern European (I mean far, far west of the Urals :)) to "get" the importance of this. Up to a certain time, there was very much a "common culture" in much of Eastern Europe, in terms of music, movies, television programmes, even books/poetry.
As longing stated, and calmissile alluded to, it belongs perhaps to a different time. Today, my kids record their own music, and download it to music websites for critique. They also share new groups with other music lovers online, and finding music online, or downloading it, even free, is more common now. Further, with the globalization of pop culture, and a lack of depth in that pop culture, I believe a lot of the former common culture is disappearing.
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Not that I'm stingy, but I don't want to be used. Women "with agendas" rarely write me (I'm not from the US or the EU, so I rarely get targeted by such women, and even if it happens, they can't pass our Balkanian BS detectors. We're not easy to fool). I do buy expensive presents and I do pay vacations only after a serious relationship is established and after I know the person better.
It might help if help you tell us more details about your self. I suspect that you are southern Slavic.
But having friends in Ukraine spread over a large age and background things in the relationship arena are changing. The rules are being redefined. Yet there are the 20 year old who will settle with the 50 year old just because after all she has been through (think Fukushima) in relationships she wants calm and stability.
So tell us more about who you are and you might get some helpful opinions.
AvHdB
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I see from your profile you are in fact from Macedonia. So my assumption is correct, your "mind set" fits in well with what I have experienced in the southern Slavic lands.
There are plenty of local women who are honest in soul and beautiful in appearance in your neck of the woods. But you have advantages via location and passport that many posters here can only dream of. Plus you live in a stunningly beautiful country.
Can you fill in some of the other details about your self?
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Has there been changes in the game in the past 10 years?
Yes, of course there have. Standard of living has improved. Western Culture is more prominent. Access to inet.
But do those changes mean it is harder to find someone in the FSU, or should I say Ukraine/Russia?
No.
The Struggling Men searching.
I have met and witnessed many WM in Ukraine who are very deluded in their quest. They have this strange belief that just because they come from the UK, US or wherever, they are automatically a good catch for the local woman. Or they think by throwing the cash around like confetti, they will attract, what they think, they want. Instead all they get are the ones being talked about on here, the Good Time Girl/Gold Digger and Time Waster. These same men will also drone on about how all women in there own country are fat, soulless blah blah blah. More often than not, they have self esteem issues (probably other issues too), will sometimes have a Victim Mentality or they can be incredibly arrogant and controlling. Often won't except any responsibility for their own failings. Then they moan at how difficult it is to find a good woman.
Those Money Grabbing, GTG Women
I know some of these type of women. Often have a sense of entitlement, everything evolves around them and often will take zero responsibilty for themselves. Often think that all men love them and want their bodies. Complain they can't find a good man. In effect, they are just the Female version of the struggling Man. Oh and you can find these women in any country, anywhere in the world.
Is it no small wonder that these Men and Women have a habit of finding each other.
This leaves the normal stable men and woman to find each other. The type of people who can work out if your any of the above, way before any meeting, usually through a bizzare concept known as communicating.
It does surprise me though that any FSUW would want to go through this search after witnessing some of the c :censored: p they have to go through from men or should I say boys.
Men and women are pretty much the same all over the world wherever you go. Yet in the USA it was much easier for me (exceptionally easy) to get a date over 10 years ago, and with a fun hot chick. Of course the fact is that as a man (or a woman) gets older his opportunities are fewer and fewer. Ukraine and Russia are actually the answer for me as it is very very easy for me to get dates there and have almost instant attractions and results. The question is do I have enough funds to stay in constant physical 24/7 contact for a minimum of 6 months and the answer currently is no. Once that situation is solved and it will be shortly I will be back there in a flash and I will make my selection as they will theirs. Once the proper foundation is made a proposal will immediately ensue and a marriage will happen with a baby quickly on the way.
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Rasputin made an excellent point: there is something amiss with a man who brags about his conquests with teenagers, virgins and models. He should read BillyB's nauseating tale and see if he picks up on the common thematic elements.
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Not sure if I'm allowed to mention another forum, but there is a very interesting viewpiont from a FSUW about the men in this venture.
http://www.*Unapproved Link*.com/index.php?topic=14159.msg282664;topicseen#msg282664
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I'm glad I waited and read until the end to post because I was about to write similar or along the lines of what Halo posted.
I see these two posters as the younger generation for WM dealing with the younger generation of FSUW.
Gentlemen, old farts (myself included) and not so old farts; things have changed dramatically since the days many of us were considered exotic whenever we set foot on the former Soyuz.
To longing and upsy, I have met really nice girls in Ukraine through my nephew. They have asked me questions that indicate to me that they would consider a marriage proposal from a WM. Not all these girls are type "A" or "B".so be patient, there are good ones there too.
Also, not all are the virginal maidens waiting for their prince charming. They are just girls like the ones you would meet locally. I'm pretty sure you can find both locally.
One more thing, the bigger the city, the larger the concentration of the younger dyevs looking for a good time. I would not generalize that the majority or the minority are into this kind of behavior. But, even a GTG can and will fall hard for the right guy.
I think that our two young heroes are trying to express their frustration with the dating scene that exist in the former Soyuz with the younger generation. It is NOT like what it was for us. We were looking at a more mature crowd of ladies. (Not going to go with those chasing teenagers.) And it was also a less "globalized" situation. Longing has a very valid point.
So let's cut these guys some slack, please? They are just frustrated, not accusatory.
At least that's the way I see it.
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Rasputin,
I understand you are married,so i would assume you are no longer dating girls in their twenties,and looking for a wife among them ?
You confirm the situation in dating FSU women under thirty years of age has not changed since five years ago,based on your current visit to Russia.
Assuming you are not still dating young women,how would you know this ?
Or are you in contact with other western men currently in Moscow,who are confirming their success in finding women there under thirty,whom they are now marrying ?
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longingforthesouth,
Whilst i can understand,and sympathise,with a lot of what you are saying,you do your credibility no favours when you boast about "conquering" girls in the FSU in the past,including virgins.
Maybe its guys like you,"conquering" girls in the FSU in the past,then moving on,which has made those same girls more cynical toward foreign men now ?
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Bear in mind the man from the South, is in fact Slavic. Macedonia was part of Yugoslavia, meaning Southern Slavic.
His mind set reminds me very much of what I saw when I was in Serbia.
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Bear in mind the man from the South, is in fact Slavic. Macedonia was part of Yugoslavia, meaning Southern Slavic.
His mind set reminds me very much of what I saw when I was in Serbia.
Yeah, that.
Not everyone thinks or behaves like American/British, take your pick.
I can just hear all the asine comments making the turn.
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman. Subscribing a fsu dating site is sufficient to face reality. and many of relatives i know having used these sites think like me. emptiness, materialism, superficiality, arrogance, cynism, immaturity, lack of curiosity, unpoliteness, stupidity, selfishness are increasingly widespread nowadays in FSU women. I confirm and sign!
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Bear in mind the man from the South, is in fact Slavic. Macedonia was part of Yugoslavia, meaning Southern Slavic.
His mind set reminds me very much of what I saw when I was in Serbia.
That is more recent history. Macedonia is the birthplace of Alexander the Great--the greatest military leader and conqueror of all time--and the primary reason that Western civilization is alive and flourishing today, as opposed to the alternative which was to be a slave of the Persian empire. With only 80,000 free men Alexander at a very young age conquered nearly one Million Persians and their slaves and forever altered the course of human history on this planet as we know it today.
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longingforthesouth,
Whilst i can understand,and sympathise,with a lot of what you are saying,you do your credibility no favours when you boast about "conquering" girls in the FSU in the past,including virgins.
Maybe its guys like you,"conquering" girls in the FSU in the past,then moving on,which has made those same girls more cynical toward foreign men now ?
Bravo my friend! :thumbsup:
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman. Subscribing a fsu dating site is sufficient to face reality. and many of relatives i know having used these sites think like me. emptiness, materialism, superficiality, arrogance, cynism, immaturity, lack of curiosity, unpoliteness, stupidity, selfishness are increasingly widespread nowadays in FSU women. I confirm and sign!
You are my friend one who is definitely in need of the services of an SP like Eduard or Nunya. You are simply not capable of narrowing down the list yourself without becoming extremely cynical yourself in that the slings and arrows bother you and cause you take your eyes off of the prize when in fact the slings and arrows are merely an indication that the prize is within your grasp--and yet because of your current mental attitude one Million miles away.
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First let me reply to the lady.
HALO:
I don't think longing has asserted the majority of FSU are rotten apples.
Of course I don't say that the majority are rotten apples. But it seems that, slowly but surely, the idiots are taking over the dating sites. I can't comment on the real life situation, cause I don't live in the FSU. What I see online is pretty ugly (oxymoron).
HALO:
I think I "get" what he is saying - correct me if I'm wrong, longing. Back in the day, when having an internet connection, particularly in Eastern Europe, was less common, it was easy to filter profiles to find women you were interested in. Now, for longing, it is like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack. He has to go through a lot of uninteresting (to him) women, based on snippets of information, from women who are inundated with replies from around the world, to find but one who may catch his eye, and vice versa.
Yes, I can agree to a large degree (accidental rhyme). But, there are many interesting women, unfortunatelly, most are not serious. I avoid those who are too "high" for my league, I do have realistic expectations, I write to girls, who share my interests and so on, but it doesn't help.
HALO: I found the CD story charming, rather than adolescent. My sister pressed the first flower her husband, at that time, her high school sweetheart, gave her in a book, and still has it.
I love such "naive" things from the heart (like in "All the Small Things" by Blink 182, written by the guitarist about his wife). It's a pitty that there are no more people (or are rare) who appreciate such gestures. Now no one seems to be satisfied with anything.
Golddiggers want gold. Makes sence! But timewasters don't want anything. You can't satisfy them. While typing this, I'm on a dating site communicating with few girls, who seemed nice, it's going nowhere.
HALO:I had a friend in Warsaw send me, and probably more so, my husband, two CDs, one of rare Ukrainian folk songs from a Polish group who lived in Ukraine, the other of even rarer classical recordings. The friend is the same age as my husband, and their cultural references are very similar. Anything the friend asks about, my husband knows, and vice versa.
I suspect what longing described is a very Eastern European thing, and you perhaps have to be Eastern European (I mean far, far west of the Urals :)) to "get" the importance of this. Up to a certain time, there was very much a "common culture" in much of Eastern Europe, in terms of music, movies, television programmes, even books/poetry.
As longing stated, and calmissile alluded to, it belongs perhaps to a different time. Today, my kids record their own music, and download it to music websites for critique. They also share new groups with other music lovers online, and finding music online, or downloading it, even free, is more common now. Further, with the globalization of pop culture, and a lack of depth in that pop culture, I believe a lot of the former common culture is disappearing.
We don't really have common culture with the FSU, ex-Yugoslavia was a neutral and more liberal, it was opened to western influences and people could travel abroad. Sure, there are some common things, but there're differences. We grew with US, british and ex-YU music and films. At school they'd teach you about Lenin, but after classes you watch Rambo killing commies in cinema or at home on VHS. Sex was everywhere magazines, films. Almost everyone here spoke at basic english. A gift such as a pressed flower is not something common here. We Balkanians are less sophisticated :)
Maybe I'm an exception. I'm one of the rare people in my country who knows for example Visotskiy or Okudzhava. They were known here only in certain circles. The majority prefered the western pop culture. That's why not many people here know how it's really in Russia or Ukraine. There are 2 extremes "poor countries of drunks and prostitutes" or "Oh, Russia, glorious country of culture, they read Mayakovski in the metro". But most of us have moderate views on the FSU, "there're good and bad sides". We get along well with russians, there're many common elements, but I find some things about them strange, for example we're more laid back, we smile more etc.
Now the gentlemen.
TOMT: Rasputin made an excellent point: there is something amiss with a man who brags about his conquests with teenagers, virgins and models. He should read BillyB's nauseating tale and see if he picks up on the common thematic elements.
Rasputin excelently provoked me with his cynical and paternalizing BS, so I tried to explain him some things, but it was like talking to a wall. So I got a little bit emotional and I badly phrased what I wanted to say, which I regreted. I wrote an explanation later. I'm sad that you didn't see it. CLICK HERE (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15404.msg236120#msg236120)
He got very obsessed with the COMPACT DISC, so I tried to explain him, that you don't have to buy expensive gifts to conquer a beautiful girl, and even models, and even girls who have never been touched by a man. You need to posses certain qualities and the woman needs to have heart and appreciate small things.
Chelseaboy: Whilst i can understand,and sympathise,with a lot of what you are saying,you do your credibility no favours when you boast about "conquering" girls in the FSU in the past,including virgins.
I know it sounded stupid, like I'm some sort of maniac, I regreted it and I offered an explanation, which you didn't see. I was provoked by Rasputin, I wanted to tell him that I have already an experience with RW, so he'd stop his paternalizing "sour grapes", "get laid", "look yourself in the mirror", "the problem is in you" and such. I badly phrased it and I apologized. CLICK HERE (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15404.msg236120#msg236120)
Chelsea boy] Maybe its guys like you,"conquering" girls in the FSU in the past,then moving on,which has made those same girls more cynical toward foreign men now ?
What "moving on"? No, no, no! I'm not using women and then dump them! I was the first man of my first russian gf, but i didn't lie to her, or used her or anything. We had a 4 years of serious relationship! I mentioned her virginity, to show you that she was not one of those lousy women I see on the dating sites. She was a pure angel. Why the hell I phrased this so badly. From now on, I will not reply to Rasputin anymore, he flames too much. Speaking of the model, she was lousy and lost in space, she wanted an adventure, though I met her with serious intentions, cause her profile read "marriage", yeah sure. I saw that she is completely louisy and irresponsible, she didn't mind sex, so if its concensual, why not? I contact women with honest intentions! if some of them wants sex, ok. But thats not my primary goal!
I'm already sick and tired of everything, I will not court FSU women anymore, let them live alone and be cynical towards foreign men as much as they want. Seems that they are only looking for an excuse NOT to find anyone "foreigners are all sex tourists", "locals are not 'quality men' ". OK, live alone, what else can i say to them.
AvHdB, sorry for answering to you last, I write so much I will go crazy :) I'm very glad that you are familiar with the Balkans. I'd write something about that and about myself, but not here in this thread. Maybe later, I don't know.
Muzh_1, yeah Boasting is normal in our macho culture. You americans spoil women too much, that's why we have problems now :) Just joking! :) Many women are spoiled and bitchy in my country, too, as everywhere. Cheers!
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman. Subscribing a fsu dating site is sufficient to face reality. and many of relatives i know having used these sites think like me. emptiness, materialism, superficiality, arrogance, cynism, immaturity, lack of curiosity, unpoliteness, stupidity, selfishness are increasingly widespread nowadays in FSU women. I confirm and sign!
Upsylon:
You'll eventually find out that the women in those "sites" are a humongous minority and definitely not representative of the former Soyuz.
Notice that I will NOT disagree that there are women on these sites that are what you claim them to be.
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Muzh_1, yeah Boasting is normal in our macho culture. You americans spoil women too much, that's why we have problems now :) Just joking! :) Many women are spoiled and bitchy in my country, too, as everywhere. Cheers!
Boy, did you get that wrong!
Go back and this time read it from right to left. :smokin:
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And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman.
It's all in the eyes of the beholder. He, who looks for rotten apples shall find them. There is even a category of guys on dating sites that are not looking for relationships, they are there just to engage in conversations with attractive women (who they know for sure are scammers) in order to expose them. I guess they receive some sort of guilty pleasure out of it (some even think they save the planet).
Anyone who has brains and not sawdust in their head will realize that the chances of meeting a "rotten apple" grow exponentially as they search for pictures of ladies who have hardly any clothes on. :dh:
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Muzh_1, yeah Boasting is normal in our macho culture. You americans spoil women too much, that's why we have problems now :) Just joking! :) Many women are spoiled and bitchy in my country, too, as everywhere. Cheers!
Boy, did you get that wrong!
Go back and this time read it from right to left. :smokin:
i did. you were talking with the dutch guy with complicated nickname about the mindset. I guess that means mentality. The dutch guy told chelseaboy not yo be suprised about my bragging, because here in the Balkans there's a different southern mentality. You said, yes, not everyone thinks or behaves like American/British. so, i confirmed that in our macho culture it is normal to brag and boast. what did i do wrong now?
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Anyone who has brains and not sawdust in their head will realize that the chances of meeting a "rotten apple" grow exponentially as they search for pictures of ladies who have hardly any clothes on. :dh:
and therein lies the problem, those with sawdust for brains tend to think ladies with hardly any clothes on is just normal behaviour and will make the best wives, so they get what they deserve in many cases :)
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Muzh_1, yeah Boasting is normal in our macho culture. You americans spoil women too much, that's why we have problems now :) Just joking! :) Many women are spoiled and bitchy in my country, too, as everywhere. Cheers!
Boy, did you get that wrong!
Go back and this time read it from right to left. :smokin:
i did. you were talking with the dutch guy with complicated nickname about the mindset. I guess that means mentality. The dutch guy told chelseaboy not yo be suprised about my bragging, because here in the Balkans there's a different southern mentality. You said, yes, not everyone thinks or behaves like American/British. so, i confirmed that in our macho culture it is normal to brag and boast. what did i do wrong now?
Ok, so it was me who got it wrong. tiphat
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman. Subscribing a fsu dating site is sufficient to face reality. and many of relatives i know having used these sites think like me. emptiness, materialism, superficiality, arrogance, cynism, immaturity, lack of curiosity, unpoliteness, stupidity, selfishness are increasingly widespread nowadays in FSU women. I confirm and sign!
Upsylon:
You'll eventually find out that the women in those "sites" are a humongous minority and definitely not representative of the former Soyuz.
Notice that I will NOT disagree that there are women on these sites that are what you claim them to be.
For having used many sites during long time and with very very numerous contacts, believe me a large part of fsu women are like i described. many friends of mine having experienced online dating with these creatures think exactly the same.
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman. Subscribing a fsu dating site is sufficient to face reality. and many of relatives i know having used these sites think like me. emptiness, materialism, superficiality, arrogance, cynism, immaturity, lack of curiosity, unpoliteness, stupidity, selfishness are increasingly widespread nowadays in FSU women. I confirm and sign!
Upsylon:
You'll eventually find out that the women in those "sites" are a humongous minority and definitely not representative of the former Soyuz.
Notice that I will NOT disagree that there are women on these sites that are what you claim them to be.
For having used many sites during long time and with very very numerous contacts, believe me a large part of fsu women are like i described. many friends of mine having experienced online dating with these creatures think exactly the same.
One more time, the women on these agency sites do not constitute your typical or average women in the FSU. The majority of the FSU women have no desire to move away from their country. I would not get into what the majority would think of you or any westerner because there is no way to actually predict a trend on that. Please, don't confuse apples with oranges.
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Rasputin excelently provoked me with his cynical and paternalizing BS, so I tried to explain him some things, but it was like talking to a wall. So I got a little bit emotional and I badly phrased what I wanted to say, which I regreted. I wrote an explanation later. I'm sad that you didn't see it. CLICK HERE (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15404.msg236120#msg236120)
OK. You should read about the adventures of BillyB in any case.
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AvHdB, sorry for answering to you last, I write so much I will go crazy :) I'm very glad that you are familiar with the Balkans. I'd write something about that and about myself, but not here in this thread. Maybe later, I don't know.
Muzh_1, yeah Boasting is normal in our macho culture. You americans spoil women too much, that's why we have problems now :) Just joking! :) Many women are spoiled and bitchy in my country, too, as everywhere. Cheers!
Well Southerner I am tempted to call you Yugo, but that was such an awful car in the States that would be insulting. :biggrin:
I can identify with the boasting seen it too often in what was Yugoslavia.
When you write and man do you write you are quite lucid and intelligent. Perhaps though you should employ the services of Nunya or better Stirlitz who also has an off beat sense of humour and is direct as well as honest.
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ok, this is obviously a pure flaming.
Why? You can't simply admit that not the "rotten apples" are not the majority?
And you you can't simply admit and realise "rotten apples" are the huge majority. Some here don't want to open their eyes just because they are engaged with a FSU woman. Subscribing a fsu dating site is sufficient to face reality. and many of relatives i know having used these sites think like me. emptiness, materialism, superficiality, arrogance, cynism, immaturity, lack of curiosity, unpoliteness, stupidity, selfishness are increasingly widespread nowadays in FSU women. I confirm and sign!
No, because I actually know many wonderful younger women that you are so easily disparaging. I am typing from my wife's city on the couch of my in-laws. My wife's cousin, her husband and my niece met me at the airport. The cousin is 28, well educate, hard-working and runs a business she started from scratch with her husband. Later, I will meet some friends, one of whom has a 21 year old daughter. She is married and works long hours and is simply the nicest and sweetest person there is. Then, there is the daugther of another friend, in her mid-twenties, also hard working, bright, a wonderful person. I could go on with a couple dozen such examples. These are all hard-working young women who married for love or want to marry for love. They understand that they have to work hard to succeed. These women are still the majority! What some men don't understand is that such women will not settle for losers, even if they are from overseas :-X
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I mentioned her virginity, to show you that she was not one of those lousy women I see on the dating sites. She was a pure angel. Why the hell I phrased this so badly. From now on, I will not reply to Rasputin anymore, he flames too much.
Or, perhaps I speak the truth tiphat But, I do thank you for clarifying your classification system: Virgin = pure angel; not virgin = lousy women.
You americans spoil women too much, that's why we have problems now :) Just joking! :) Many women are spoiled and bitchy in my country, too, as everywhere. Cheers!
Perhaps there is a reason why you are not having so much difficulty finding good women in your country and in Russia tiphat
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AvHdB: Well Southerner I am tempted to call you Yugo, but that was such an awful car in the States that would be insulting. :biggrin: I can identify with the boasting seen it too often in what was Yugoslavia.
Hehe I'm not insulted, but I don't think it's a nickname for me. Yugoslavia had good sides (non-alignment, free movement, multiculture, tourism, good rock music and films), but also some bad. We get along well with the slovenes, croats, bosnians, montenegrins, serbs.. We share common things (but there are differences), we like each other's music, films. I'm a cosmopolitan, but first I care about Macedonia. Don't get me wrong :) Respect to all!
AvHdB: When you write and man do you write you are quite lucid and intelligent.
Thanx, it's nothing special! I'm from a family of writers and journalists, I was a (well, popular) blogger and was invited to write for magazines and web. Sometimes I'm sick of writting but it's november, I stay at home, so I decided to be active here.
AvHdB:Perhaps though you should employ the services of Nunya or better Stirlitz who also has an off beat sense of humour and is direct as well as honest.
Wingmen? Don't know if that's for me. I've travelled through (almost) whole Russia and Ukraine alone, I'm almost fluent in russian (learned it by myself), I'm one of the rare in my country who is well versed on the fsu culture and mentality, I've dated several women... so I don't think I need a service of a guide or an interpreter or such. I've read some Ed's posts. Maybe that's useful for those, to whom the fsu is something completely new.
TomT: OK. You should read about the adventures of BillyB in any case.
Thanks for the link ;)
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Btw a funny thing, related to our online dating discussion. I'm paralely logged into a dating site.
1. As I said before, in the past, women would write me letters of a decent lenght:
"My name is _____, I live in _______, I work/study in _______, my hobby is ________".
2. Then they started squeezing them to one-line sentences "fine thanx, how r u?" or "ОК, спс, как у тя?"
3. And now I receive replies consisted of just one word :)
There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
I shouldn't complain, as I don't receive many replies. I should be very grateful that this princess took some of her precious time for a mortal like me.
And, of course, needles to say, she never bothered to check the profile of the person she is talking to. OK, this is just one bad example, it's not the norm, but trust me there're many similar to her.
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not angry, just not a dreamer
you can proceed like with polls
subscribe a dating site and write to 100 FSU women and see the results.
and you'll see the experience will confirm my theory ;-)
do the same with 1000,and you will be sure about it ;-)
What site, what age range, and with what criteria?
Someone was complaining somewhere about an 8-10% response rate - one person might expect/demand everyone responds to them, but that's insanely unrealistic, unless they are looking to "buy" a "relationship." There are enough sites that might average a 75% or higher response rate, but I'd question if that is really "better," myself.
Some sites contain very little information besides multiple choice/basic information - a picture, height, weight, occupation, with almost or zero real unique information, and such sites will indeed require far more initial contacts as there's little provided to filter on anything beyond very basic information.
The issue most are taking with your comments are not that some women exist with the traits/attitudes described; they certainly do, but in your claim of all, which is statistically impossible. Again, I've seen more than a few high maintenance, gold digger types of FSU women online, but that does not mean all of them, on every site or in person anywhere in the FSU.
FWIW, I have communicated with 100+ FSU women. A majority of them lasted an email to a few, but not many/prolonged communication, as they were obviously not a fit for me, I for them, and/or both. If I compared the experience to the local dating scene, both normal in person and online, the percentages remained fairly promising, in the number of responses from generally decent and interesting women, although no walk in the park approaching 100% response rates from "perfect angels" - I came across all kinds, some of which I had remained friends with after becoming committed, a few that were mostly looking for penpals/improving their English, and yes, a good number that either believed in the "streets of gold" or other fallacies, or were only interested in extremely well off guys, which irrespective of my personal finances, has always been a turnoff to me. Some of the women I'd been in contact with, I have little doubt would make great partners for someone that's reasonably well adjusted themselves. Somehow, after some real conversation, it wasn't all that tough to tell the high maintenance/unreasonable expectation women from those more down to earth.
Now, I'm not doubting your experience. I am saying that there is rarely the amount of luck/whatever that somehow makes meeting someone from another country "easy," let alone someone compatible in reality, on the first mail, on the first dozen, etc. Let's also consider the number of guys who after a divorce, find themselves looking for....exactly the same "type" of woman that didn't work out in the first go around. It's worth spending some time looking at what you've done, how/where things went wrong, and what could be done differently, whether it's avoiding certain showstopper traits, not approaching those with a stunning picture but obvious incompatibilities, etc. It's not like the man is helpless in choosing/narrowing down who he feels might or might not be a good fit, and proceeding accordingly.
Anyway, best of luck, hopefully you'll understand "all" is not the same as "your experiences so far," and see some better "luck" in the future. :)
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Btw a funny thing, related to our online dating discussion. I'm paralely logged into a dating site.
1. As I said before, in the past, women would write me letters of a decent lenght:
"My name is _____, I live in _______, I work/study in _______, my hobby is ________".
2. Then they started squeezing them to one-line sentences "fine thanx, how r u?" or "ОК, спс, как у тя?"
3. And now I receive replies consisted of just one word :)
There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
I shouldn't complain, as I don't receive many replies. I should be very grateful that this princess took some of her precious time for a mortal like me.
And, of course, needles to say, she never bothered to check the profile of the person she is talking to. OK, this is just one bad example, it's not the norm, but trust me there're many similar to her.
Very true, the rare times you get an answer, it is extremely brief, fade, careless and generic... impossible to create any deep discussion, tiring trying endlessly to feed the discussion with a person not keen to communicate and not curious in his interlocutor... and as you said they never read profiles anyway, their emptiness and superficiality are too high for it. they just like the idea to receive attention, but unable to give some. too focused on their little person.
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Btw a funny thing, related to our online dating discussion. I'm paralely logged into a dating site.
1. As I said before, in the past, women would write me letters of a decent lenght:
"My name is _____, I live in _______, I work/study in _______, my hobby is ________".
2. Then they started squeezing them to one-line sentences "fine thanx, how r u?" or "ОК, спс, как у тя?"
3. And now I receive replies consisted of just one word :)
There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
I shouldn't complain, as I don't receive many replies. I should be very grateful that this princess took some of her precious time for a mortal like me.
And, of course, needles to say, she never bothered to check the profile of the person she is talking to. OK, this is just one bad example, it's not the norm, but trust me there're many similar to her.
Very true, the rare times you get an answer, it is extremely brief, fade, careless and generic... impossible to create any deep discussion, tiring trying endlessly to feed the discussion with a person not keen to communicate and not curious in his interlocutor... and as you said they never read profiles anyway, their emptiness and superficiality are too high for it. they just like the idea to receive attention, but unable to give some. too focused on their little person.
Who knows what the deal is. If they are a serious student or they work a job it could be that they are busy, tired, find you boring. Letters, chat and SMS are bull :censored: t and the "thrill" of getting an email or instant message from someone gets old pretty quick even in my book.
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not angry, just not a dreamer
you can proceed like with polls
subscribe a dating site and write to 100 FSU women and see the results.
and you'll see the experience will confirm my theory ;-)
do the same with 1000,and you will be sure about it ;-)
The issue most are taking with your comments are not that some women exist with the traits/attitudes described; they certainly do, but in your claim of all, which is statistically impossible. Again, I've seen more than a few high maintenance, gold digger types of FSU women online, but that does not mean all of them, on every site or in person anywhere in the FSU.
If you read me carefully i said a clear majority of FSU women are like i described, not "all". sad but true. many of the users the site i used with whom i chatted and relatives plus friends of mine think exactly the same after several years of online dating. some, like me, gave up while some continue, obviously without result. until they undestand all this is based of untrue myths and what fsu girls are. i don't waste my energy and time anymore for such people. like longingforthesouth who seems good man and person but it can't be interesting for a fsu woman which are to be classified in your category A and category B. i would add a category C... "arrogant, selfish, uninteresting, capricious, unpolite, cold, superficial, empty, close minded..." but some are cat B+C or even A+B+C...
thanks for your answer, with you at least, it is possible to communicate... cheers.
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Very true, the rare times you get an answer, it is extremely brief, fade, careless and generic... impossible to create any deep discussion, tiring trying endlessly to feed the discussion with a person not keen to communicate and not curious in his interlocutor... and as you said they never read profiles anyway, their emptiness and superficiality are too high for it. they just like the idea to receive attention, but unable to give some. too focused on their little person.
What do you expect, a doctoral dissertation? If a woman is checking her profile on her phone, she won't write a long message. If she replies, it means that she is interested. It is up to you to take it from there :biggrin:
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not angry, just not a dreamer
you can proceed like with polls
subscribe a dating site and write to 100 FSU women and see the results.
and you'll see the experience will confirm my theory ;-)
do the same with 1000,and you will be sure about it ;-)
The issue most are taking with your comments are not that some women exist with the traits/attitudes described; they certainly do, but in your claim of all, which is statistically impossible. Again, I've seen more than a few high maintenance, gold digger types of FSU women online, but that does not mean all of them, on every site or in person anywhere in the FSU.
If you read me carefully i said a clear majority of FSU women are like i described, not "all". sad but true. many of the users the site i used with whom i chatted and relatives plus friends of mine think exactly the same after several years of online dating. some, like me, gave up while some continue, obviously without result. until they undestand all this is based of untrue myths and what fsu girls are. i don't waste my energy and time anymore for such people. like longingforthesouth who seems good man and person but it can't be interesting for a fsu woman which are to be classified in your category A and category B. i would add a category C... "arrogant, selfish, uninteresting, capricious, superficial, empty, close minded..." but some are cat B+C or even A+B+C...
thanks for your answer, with you at least, it is possible to communicate... cheers.
Upsylon,
You are still wrong with your assessment.
It would be more acceptable if you would state:
If you read me carefully i said a clear majority of FSU women on marriage agencies are like i described, not "all".
where I added "on marriage agencies."
This would definitely be more factually defensible.
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i don't waste my energy and time anymore for such people
Then don't and stop whining about it. The thing is that dating sites where the women are real and not being compensated financially for writing, it is a numbers game. You have to spend time and energy writing hundreds of messages to find women that you want to go out on a date. Such is life. If you don't want to invest the time and energy into dating, then I recommend celibacy...
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well, on marriage agencies or not, it's women right? i don't think it's different for women not on dating sites but nevermind.
so, it's even worse because in that case they are supposed to be online to correspond, seeking love, open their minds and hearts, being curious, active, communicate, ask questions...
then you realise who they are...
and fsu women are just :censored: ...
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well, on marriage agencies or not, it's women right? i don't think it's different for women not on dating sites but nevermind.
so, it's even worse because in that case they are supposed to be online to correspond, seeking love, open their minds and hearts, being curious, active, communicate, ask questions...
then you realise who they are...
and fsu women are just :censored: ...
The thing is, women are like men. When they open a man's profile they will invariably look at the photo first. If they like what they see, they will be more enthusiastic in their reply :biggrin: Also, an attractive woman will IMHO expect you to put the effort into wooing her. She knows that she doesn't have to win you over, rather you are the one who must engage her to win her interest.
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RG: I am saying that there is rarely the amount of luck/whatever that somehow makes meeting someone from another country "easy," let alone someone compatible in reality, on the first mail, on the first dozen, etc.
The whole point of FSU dating was that it was "EASY" (in quotes). If people knew it's a tough job, it wouldn't become so popular. Now that we know it's not easy, the FSU loses it's meaning, cause the "easyness" was it's most important element. "No luck with AW? It's easy to get a girl in the FSU, there're plenty of them, every loser can get one, just use our services".
The dating industry spread the myth, that in the fsu it is "easy" to find a partner, who will be: attractive + sexy+ family oriented + will wash dishes + will stand on her head = perfect (with ads featuring hot smoking blondes).
That's, of course, a pure lie or it was a reallity for some in the 90's and early 2000's, when the fsu was opening, the economy was down and women married foreigners for better life or cause it was "cool". Also, the internet back then was something new and exciting.
Many WM are victims of this myth, they believed that hordes of attractive women are just dying to marry them. Men expected too much and you can't blame them. Many were stupid or naive, you can say it's their fault, but someone spread that myth on purpose (for money). If they convince me to buy spoiled milk, I'm naive, but who is more to be blamed? Me or the business who sold it to me? It's called a false advertisement and a scam. And this is one of the worst forms of a scam, cause it's an emotional manipulation.
Some people were succesful in this story, but it's a small minority, mainly consisting of divorced WM married to single mothers aged over 40. Not many got one of those hot blondes from the ads (and where are they now? with their local boyfriends, of course).
So, now we have this useful forum, and we all learned, that it's not easy to find a quality partner in the FSU. It takes a lot of work, sometimes too much. So, if it's not easy, why the hell many WM still go there, wasting money, nerves, risking various problems?
You will say "have realistic expectations", "lower your criteria" and you will achieve success. Well, if I lower my criteria, then I can find a partner in my own country. There're some girls (not like thousands, but few) who are crazy about me, but the whole point of my fsu dating was to catch something better and in an easier way than in my country.
But it's going nowhere. So, now I am lowering my criteria every day more and more, and finally I will hit the bottom writting to some fat and ugly fsu women with moustaches and even they will not reply or even bother to check the profile. The FSU dating is slowly but surely dying, someone has to do some very radical changes to keep it alive.
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well, on marriage agencies or not, it's women right? i don't think it's different for women not on dating sites but nevermind.
so, it's even worse because in that case they are supposed to be online to correspond, seeking love, open their minds and hearts, being curious, active, communicate, ask questions...
then you realise who they are...
and fsu women are just :censored: ...
Between you and me, you don't look like you are "seeking love" at all. You are coming out as a very angry man and that is of no help; neither here nor there. Don't be surprised if women spit in your face if you approach them with this attitude; and trust me, they'll smell it a mile away.
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i don't waste my energy and time anymore for such people
Then don't and stop whining about it. The thing is that dating sites where the women are real and not being compensated financially for writing, it is a numbers game. You have to spend time and energy writing hundreds of messages to find women that you want to go out on a date. Such is life. If you don't want to invest the time and energy into dating, then I recommend celibacy...
so many time energy (and money) have been invested on it... not hundreds but thousands.. i learned my lesson and made the necessary conclusions.
until arrive the time you open your eyes and stop investing for nothing.
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i don't waste my energy and time anymore for such people
Then don't and stop whining about it. The thing is that dating sites where the women are real and not being compensated financially for writing, it is a numbers game. You have to spend time and energy writing hundreds of messages to find women that you want to go out on a date. Such is life. If you don't want to invest the time and energy into dating, then I recommend celibacy...
so many time energy (and money) have been invested on it... not hundreds but thousands.. i learned my lesson and made the necessary conclusions.
until arrive the time you open your eyes and stop investing for nothing.
Thousands? Let me guess, you were using a pay-per-letter fantasy site.
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so, it's even worse because in that case they are supposed to be online to correspond, seeking love, open their minds and hearts, being curious, active, communicate, ask questions...
You are describing yourself right now. You came into search with closed mind and a preformed opinion. If you put all the energy you spend bickering on this forum into looking for for your soul mate, you would already be engaged.
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Don't be surprised if women spit in your face if you approach them with this attitude; and trust me, they'll smell it a mile away.
That's exactly what I'd do! :knit:
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well, on marriage agencies or not, it's women right? i don't think it's different for women not on dating sites but nevermind.
so, it's even worse because in that case they are supposed to be online to correspond, seeking love, open their minds and hearts, being curious, active, communicate, ask questions...
then you realise who they are...
and fsu women are just :censored: ...
Between you and me, you don't look like you are "seeking love" at all. You are coming out as a very angry man and that is of no help; neither here nor there. Don't be surprised if women spit in your face if you approach them with this attitude; and trust me, they'll smell it a mile away.
Don't speak without knowing...
Even if i had found (or tomorrow) "an exception" among them i would think exactly the same, my view doesn't depend on personal situation. you can enjoy the most tiny parts without forgetting how are the majority of them.
I have a friend who lived for years in Russia and think the same as me. "girls with angel face hides a devil..."
Having spoken with many users of the sites i was, we were sharing the same conclusions...
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i don't waste my energy and time anymore for such people
Then don't and stop whining about it. The thing is that dating sites where the women are real and not being compensated financially for writing, it is a numbers game. You have to spend time and energy writing hundreds of messages to find women that you want to go out on a date. Such is life. If you don't want to invest the time and energy into dating, then I recommend celibacy...
so many time energy (and money) have been invested on it... not hundreds but thousands.. i learned my lesson and made the necessary conclusions.
until arrive the time you open your eyes and stop investing for nothing.
Thousands? Let me guess, you were using a pay-per-letter fantasy site.
No.
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Don't be surprised if women spit in your face if you approach them with this attitude; and trust me, they'll smell it a mile away.
That's exactly what I'd do! :knit:
in my list i forgot "uneducated", thanks i was sure having forgotten something.
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The FSU women on this forum are very sweet. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you alienate them with your attitude.
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RG: I am saying that there is rarely the amount of luck/whatever that somehow makes meeting someone from another country "easy," let alone someone compatible in reality, on the first mail, on the first dozen, etc.
The whole point of FSU dating was that it was "EASY" (in quotes). If people knew it's a tough job, it wouldn't become so popular. Now that we know it's not easy, the FSU loses it's meaning, cause the "easyness" was it's most important element. "No luck with AW? It's easy to get a girl in the FSU, there're plenty of them, every loser can get one, just use our services".
The dating industry spread the myth, that in the fsu it is "easy" to find a partner, who will be: attractive + sexy+ family oriented + will wash dishes + will stand on her head = perfect (with ads featuring hot smoking blondes).
That's, of course, a pure lie or it was a reallity for some in the 90's and early 2000's, when the fsu was opening, the economy was down and women married foreigners for better life or cause it was "cool". Also, the internet back then was something new and exciting.
Many WM are victims of this myth, they believed that hordes of attractive women are just dying to marry them. Men expected too much and you can't blame them. Many were stupid or naive, you can say it's their fault, but someone spread that myth on purpose (for money). If they convince me to buy spoiled milk, I'm naive, but who is more to be blamed? Me or the business who sold it to me? It's called a false advertisement and a scam. And this is one of the worst forms of a scam, cause it's an emotional manipulation.
Some people were succesful in this story, but it's a small minority, mainly consisting of divorced WM married to single mothers aged over 40. Not many got one of those hot blondes from the ads (and where are they now? with their local boyfriends, of course).
So, now we have this useful forum, and we all learned, that it's not easy to find a quality partner in the FSU. It takes a lot of work, sometimes too much. So, if it's not easy, why the hell many WM still go there, wasting money, nerves, risking various problems?
You will say "have realistic expectations", "lower your criteria" and you will achieve success. Well, if I lower my criteria, then I can find a partner in my own country. There're some girls (not like thousands, but few) who are crazy about me, but the whole point of my fsu dating was to catch something better and in an easier way than in my country.
But it's going nowhere. So, now I am lowering my criteria every day more and more, and finally I will hit the bottom writting to some fat and ugly fsu women with moustaches and even they will not reply or even bother to check the profile. The FSU dating is slowly but surely dying, someone has to do some very radical changes to keep it alive.
Nothing to add, Perfect! :)
totally agree with you again.
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I get the impression its his attitude that is holding him back from succeeding.
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The FSU women on this forum are very sweet. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you alienate them with your attitude.
some of the rare exceptions we were talking about maybe.
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The FSU women on this forum are very sweet. You are shooting yourself in the foot if you alienate them with your attitude.
some of the rare exceptions we were talking about maybe.
The women here are insightful and an unique resource as opposed to the opposite sex which gets involved in drivel and shit with all to great a frequency, unfortunately.
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Longing, I'm not dismissing your post at all, just a couple of observations, K?
The dating industry spread the myth, that in the fsu it is "easy" to find a partner, who will be: attractive + sexy+ family oriented + will wash dishes + will stand on her head = perfect (with ads featuring hot smoking blondes).
Delete (will wash dishes+will stand on their head) and the statement is true. Unless they work at a restaurant or are gymnasts. Also, I've seen my share of blondes on my travels there.
That's, of course, a pure lie or it was a reallity for some in the 90's and early 2000's, when the fsu was opening, the economy was down and women married foreigners for better life or cause it was "cool". Also, the internet back then was something new and exciting.
I wouldn't say is a pure lie. I would say it is an exaggeration. Also, you are correct that 10 or so years ago it was a different economic situation where women would take higher risks and hope for the best. Still, I know a lot of these ladies (who came here around 10 years ago) who are still married to their American husbands. Also, they will tell you it was not a bed of roses but they were committed to make it work.
Many WM are victims of this myth, they believed that hordes of attractive women are just dying to marry them. Men expected too much and you can't blame them. Many were stupid or naive, you can say it's their fault, but someone spread that myth on purpose (for money). If they convince me to buy spoiled milk, I'm naive, but who is more to be blamed? Me or the business who sold it to me? It's called a false advertisement and a scam. And this is one of the worst forms of a scam, cause it's an emotional manipulation.
I wouldn't call it myth. I would call it agency misrepresentation. Also, the majority of guys who are married and on these forums always advise to be realistic. However, there is so much we can say. You can bring the horse to the water...
Some people were succesful in this story, but it's a small minority, mainly consisting of divorced WM married to single mothers aged over 40. Not many got one of those hot blondes from the ads (and where are they now? with their local boyfriends, of course).
Not true. For example, my wife was 32, single and childless. I also know quite a few guys whose wives met the same criteria. The rest is just not true. Now you are falling for the myth. Because it has happened to a few, the sour grapes and totally unrealistic men who did this have been spreading the myth.
So, now we have this useful forum, and we all learned, that it's not easy to find a quality partner in the FSU. It takes a lot of work, sometimes too much. So, if it's not easy, why the hell many WM still go there, wasting money, nerves, risking various problems?
Why do guys climb a mountain? Because it's there. Yes, it is not a walk in the park. Yes, it takes a lot of patience and work. And money. But you'll spend about the same locally. So what would be your choice? Actually, locally you can "date" quite a few more, therefore increasing the chances of STD.
You will say "have realistic expectations", "lower your criteria" and you will achieve success. Well, if I lower my criteria, then I can find a partner in my own country. There're some girls (not like thousands, but few) who are crazy about me, but the whole point of my fsu dating was to catch something better and in an easier way than in my country.
Oh man, where do I start? First, realistic expectations are not the same as lowering your criteria. You should be fully aware what type of lady you attract. No need to lower your criteria. Actually, there is no reason why you shouldn't up the ante. This ordeal is like a basketball game; if you don't shoot, you don't score. It Is As Simple As That.
Also, I would highly recommend you desist from this idea that it is easier. As a matter of fact, because of all the hoops you have to jump (long-distance relationship, visas, different language and culture) which are blatantly in your face should give you an indication this is not easy. What you should be considering is; Is It Worthy?
But it's going nowhere. So, now I am lowering my criteria every day more and more, and finally I will hit the bottom writting to some fat and ugly fsu women with moustaches and even they will not reply or even bother to check the profile. The FSU dating is slowly but surely dying, someone has to do some very radical changes to keep it alive.
First, this is not superfast. It is not like going to a car dealership and buying a car. I'm positive you know this too.
Second, why on Earth are you lowering your criteria? This shows you are not being patient and this haste can lead to dire circumstances. I promise you there are literally millions of absolutely gorgeous women in the former Soyuz that are actively looking for a mate. The problem is they have no clue you exist. So you'll have to work on that. There is no room service here.
A word of advice. Take a deep breadth and assess where you are at. Then develop a strategy. You have to get your ass over there and you know that. Prepare for that occasion, Don't put the horse before the cart. And stop believing all the BS from agencies.
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Don't be surprised if women spit in your face if you approach them with this attitude; and trust me, they'll smell it a mile away.
That's exactly what I'd do! :knit:
in my list i forgot "uneducated", thanks i was sure having forgotten something.
That's all you deserve, whether you like it or not.
Change your attitude and women will be nicer to you.
Nasty are the men who haven't gotten laid in a while. :chuckle:
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thanks for your reaction, it confirms precisely what i was talking about.
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Don't judge people without knowing them.
I saw what results being (what i really am in fact) kind, sincere, simple, serious, respectful, pure, opened, affectuous, curious can bring...
no, these girls like nasty men but themselves first of all.
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Don't judge people without knowing them.
I saw what results being (what i really am in fact) kind, sincere, simple, serious, respectful, pure, opened, affectuous, curious can bring...
no, these girls like nasty men but themselves first of all.
IF you are anything like what you describe above, then SHOW IT. Actions speak louder than words, mister.
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I get the impression its his attitude that is holding him back from succeeding.
Agree...Sad, but so true!
I'm not willing to participate in any kind of discussion with you, young man, cause of this feeling of disgust I got from reading your posts, which insult millions of FSU women. Do you really believe you can find your Miss Right with this attitude? The truth is подобное притягивает подобное, ищите и обрящете...
All I can say that as a mother of a 23 y.o wonderful daughter I'm happy she doesn't date anyone like this, sorry for not being sweet and nice. >:(
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I get the impression its his attitude that is holding him back from succeeding.
Agree...Sad, but so true!
I'm not willing to participate in any kind of discussion with you, young man, cause of this feeling of disgust I got from reading your posts, which insult millions of FSU women. Do you really believe you can find your Miss Right with this attitude? The truth is подобное притягивает подобное, ищите и обрящете...
All I can say that as a mother of a 23 y.o wonderful daughter I'm happy she doesn't date anyone like this, sorry for not being sweet and nice. >:(
:thumbsup:
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I wish that I could do as well predicting commodity futures.
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I'm naive, but who is more to be blamed? Me or the business who sold it to me? It's called a false advertisement and a scam. And this is one of the worst forms of a scam, cause it's an emotional manipulation.
I agree, the pay-per-letter agencies with their photoshopped photos and less that fully ethical practices are selling a fantasy. Clearly, you bought into it. The problem that you and your soul-mate Upsylon make is conflating their practices with millions of women. Just because some agencies are scummy does not mean that most women from the FSU are "rotten apples."
Some people were succesful in this story, but it's a small minority, mainly consisting of divorced WM married to single mothers aged over 40. Not many got one of those hot blondes from the ads (and where are they now? with their local boyfriends, of course).
I will repeat once again: my wife was 26 when we married, she had never been married and was not a single mother. As for blondes, it was never my obsession.
So, now we have this useful forum, and we all learned, that it's not easy to find a quality partner in the FSU. It takes a lot of work, sometimes too much. So, if it's not easy, why the hell many WM still go there, wasting money, nerves, risking various problems?
Quite simple, because it is easier dating in the FSU. Nonetheless, you have to be realistic. You have to avoid the sites that are selling fantasy and you also have to take a really long look at yourself in the mirror. What exactly is it that you are bringing to the table? Are you young? Are you attractive? Do you have a vivacious personality capable of gaining and keeping the interest of a young woman? If the answer to all of the above is no, then yes the odds of finding an extremely attractive 20-year-old are stacked against you...
You will say "have realistic expectations", "lower your criteria" and you will achieve success. Well, if I lower my criteria, then I can find a partner in my own country. There're some girls (not like thousands, but few) who are crazy about me, but the whole point of my fsu dating was to catch something better and in an easier way than in my country.
What is your country? Macedonia? Realistically, I would say that if you can't date attractive 20 years olds in your country, that you should not expect to be able to attract women that are significantly different from those back home. If you are from Macedonia, you have to understand that your country's per capita GNP is much lower than Russia's, lower than Kazakhstan's, close to Belarus' and a bit higher than Ukraine's. A woman thus from Russia moving to Macedonia would in most cases expect a drop in standard of living. I am not saying that men should marry women who simply want to live in a richer country, but you have to be aware of the fact that you won't even be an attractive option to those women solely looking to move to a richer country.
But it's going nowhere. So, now I am lowering my criteria every day more and more, and finally I will hit the bottom writting to some fat and ugly fsu women with moustaches and even they will not reply or even bother to check the profile. The FSU dating is slowly but surely dying, someone has to do some very radical changes to keep it alive.
FSU dating is still going strong. With few exceptions, women are still looking for men. As for your criteria, as noted, you should not really expect to find a woman significantly different from the ones you are dating at home. If anything, you will likely only be able to attract women that are less attractive as at least you share the same culture with the women back home, and you may not come across quite as bitter to them.
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I LOVE this thread! What do I like the most about it? The women!!!!
The women's posts are perfect! If you can not see that your attitude is standing in your way of success just from this one thread then nothing will convince you! Take hold of this opportunity! Learn from these women! If a real relationship is important to you then learn. And by a real relationship I do not mean writing letters, chatting on dating sites with the intention of getting laid.
Let me ask you, what are you looking for? Why are you searching dating sites and why did you come to this forum?
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With few exceptions, women are still looking for men.
Raspy, Well said :thumbsup:
The odd thing is men are looking for women ~ it is the meeting of minds & bodies that causes difficulties. If one has the correct attitude and IQ there can be success.
I fear that the Southern Man and Uppitysolong have a ways to go.
AvHdB
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With few exceptions, women are still looking for men.
Raspy, Well said :thumbsup:
The odd thing is men are looking for women ~ it is the meeting of minds & bodies that causes difficulties. If one has the correct attitude and IQ there can be success.
I fear that the Southern Man and Uppitysolong have a ways to go.
AvHdB
AvHdB, this is not right, in a certain way you mildly offended me, I considered you a reasonable person.
I don't understand, AvHdB, "we have a way to go"? You mean as in "I still have to learn"? I disagree, I told all of you minimum 100 times, that I already have fsu dating experience since 2005 including one decently long and several short relationships and I nearly got married in the FSU. I learned the language and I'm versed in their culture and mentality. Have visited lots of cities all the way to Siberia. Travelled there several times, each time for a month or two, alone, in trains, going through various situations. I don't know what more should I do, so you can take my experiences for serious. What I talk about is based on my real-life experience and is not just angry mumbo jumbo of a "frustrated adolescent who can't get no pussy".
I agree with upsylon on many things, but I'm not expressing myself so harshly like him and I didn't quarell with the ladies! So, though I may agree with Upsylon to a large extent, we are different, and you can't put us both in one basket. As I said, I had some successes in the past and even in caps and bolds that "THERE ARE GOOD FSU WOMEN" but it's not SO easy to find them, like the dating industry is misleading people. Even now, there are some interesting fsu women whom I'm contacting, but not many and I'm afraid that most of them are not serious, which sooner or later, as the communication is developing, proves to be true. You don't know what I'm talking to them and how I'm behaving to them, so you can't judge about that.
AvHdB, you say "Raspy, well said", I don't see what good he said? Pure nonsence. He wants a quarell, he flames, he takes what I say out of context, he distorts my words, he ignores important points that I make, he makes wrong assumptions, but OK, I understand, he's your friend and you let him get away with it.
I assume (maybe I'm wrong) that he has no experience in fsu online dating or he's not up do date with the current developments and that's why he has a distorted picture of it. He traveled to Russia since the 90's, learned russian, probably met his wife in real life, so he's not a typical foreign online seeker, he doesn't know the problems we are facing. He basically became a russian and normaly, he's biased. That's why I can't take his opinions as neutral.
Also, he mentions about my country. He doesn't want to face the reality, that I already had relationships with russian women, and none of them had problems with my country or cared to analyze the BDP/GDP mumbo jumbo. Not everyone is an economist. If they liked the guy physicaly and intellectualy - they go with the guy. I went to FSU several times, met women, if we started a relationship, I was inviting them to my country, they come, we would have a great time and that's all what it matters. At the same time, I've read about many WM from wealthier countries, who had "no show", their date didn't appear etc.
Yes, I know, many fsu woman look a partner in a wealthier country (e.g. USA), but with such women you can't be sure, whether they want to marry a person or a country. Luckily, I have never had problems with such women, cause they look for americans, british, french or dutch etc. But, then, not every american, french or dutch is wealthy. I live in Macedonia quite good. I have a big house, my own family business, several free-lance jobs and extra income from renting my own real estate. So my financial situation is not the problem. Also, there are some russian brides married here, there's a small community, folk ensemble and such stuff and they live here quite well, so it's not the problem with the country.
The problem is that many (not all) young fsu women on the international dating sites are not serious, while the women on russian dating sites such as loveplanet.ru or mamba.ru prefer locals and not foreigners. They even do not want foreigners from wealthy countries. A look at their profiles will tell you a lot "no outside moscow, no americans, no this no that" (huge list of restrictions). Rasputin also makes a completely wrong assumprtions that I have used agencies. I've never said that i used them, when did I say that and why should i use them? So what "well said Raspy", I don't get you AvHdB.
You are right when you are warning upsylon to stop behaving like that, especially with the ladies. But how do you people know, what upsylon writes to women on dating sites and how he behaves with them? Based on how he reacts here? It doesn't have to be the same. Maybe he's kind and polite there. I've noticed, esspecialy in the "train wreck" subforum, that here people sometimes "vent", because they cannot do it elsewhere.
OK, I don't know upsylon personally, I'm just assuming that he's a basically a good guy, who got disappointed and very angry of what he experienced and I don't blame him. But he should not be so harsh. Maybe it's because of his youth, don't forget that he's under 30 (at least that's what he said)
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I assume (maybe I'm wrong) that he has no experience in fsu online dating or he's not up do date with the current developments and that's why he has a distorted picture of it. He traveled to Russia since the 90's, learned russian, probably met his wife in real life, so he's not a typical foreign online seeker, he doesn't know the problems we are facing. He basically became a russian and normaly, he's biased. That's why I can't take his opinions as neutral.
You assume wrong. I met my wife on the mamba network, online, the site where you say that it is not possible to meet women willing to consider foreigners :popcorn:
Also, he mentions about my country. He doesn't want to face the reality, that I already had relationships with russian women, and none of them had problems with my country or cared to analyze the BDP/GDP mumbo jumbo. Not everyone is an economist. If they liked the guy physicaly and intellectualy - they go with the guy.
Hey, I agree with you, the problem is not with the women but with the men. Now, if only the men would whine less :biggrin:
The problem is that many (not all) young fsu women on the international dating sites are not serious
Then stop looking for women on international dating sites :'( I did not use such sites, I used mamba. It is a numbers game and you have to write a lot of women before you find some to date.
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There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
sometimes it's even worse, all what you get is not even a word but only smileys as reply...
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The dating industry spread the myth, that in the fsu it is "easy" to find a partner, who will be: attractive + sexy+ family oriented + will wash dishes + will stand on her head = perfect (with ads featuring hot smoking blondes). That's, of course, a pure lie
You are right but i think only naive men can believe so... as for me i have never believed it was "easy" but didn't imagine it was simply impossible. for the reasons i mentionned in my previous posts. yes, the fsu dating industry widespreads a huge fake myth which is nothing mor than a pure lie. finding a normal fsu girl is near to be a miracle because of what majority of fsu girls are themselves, far from the "good woman, pure, innocent, kind, family oriented, with values and dedicated", they are for most of them all the contrary of that!!!
they (dating industry) manipulate people and steals them emotionally, morally, financially, we are near to a generalized scam. there are sites with pay per letters, total scam, where you see obviously angels which are starving to know "decent man, honest, family oriented and caring" well a pompous, overblown profil in which every man willl be trapped for if he doesn't think properly with his brain. In sites like uadreams, UMFA it is so and all the discussion is written by translaters paid by the fake agency or there are sites like datingandmatchmaking which is scammed completely and the few real girls you will find are from category B from longintothesouth. time wasters, not in site for "russian women looking for husbands", then are empty profiles controlled by the agency to attract men or scam profiles. lavaplace is ghost site, plenty of profiles old and never used for time while russianeuro is inondated by scammers. in fact the rule "too good to be true" in online datings is very efficient, if you think so, the girl is non existing, fake. certain ruthless agencies and sites even use famous pics used by scammers as advertisement... The all business is rotten, corrupted, dishonest, based on lies, myths and fantasies which have nothing to do with the reality.
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Gentlemen? Why not just slit your wrists and be done with it or buy a pair of assless chaps and go looking for someone who offers to help you "push in your stool"?
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I had fallen in love with this scammer girl, and I knew she wasn't interested in me because she hardly asked anything about me really, but she did wanted to know how I felt about her. I still continued because i was addicted to her, then I found out she also put new pictures in her profile and she never mentioned me this! Yes still wanted me to contact her all the time.
I was talking to the girl of my dreams and she to me, but why was I soaking about it everyday then? Because I knew of course it wasn't real.
She would write to me about a meaningless movie she seen the night before or that she found a lucky penny in the streets, really meaningless stuff! Never once asked for my situation at home.
I mean c'mon what serious looking women would discuss this? I never had the feeling she was searching for my inner soul...She saw my pictures, she would never say why she liked me unless i asked her but then she would use exclamation marks behind it! Felt like I was being beaten while sucked empty from my blood
And it lasted months! Months of feeling insecure and chasing a dream I wanted so bad to be real. And lost lot of my hard earned money as well :(
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Is anyone able to feel sorry for me?
Cross me out from that list ;D
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I had fallen in love with this scammer girl, and I knew she wasn't interested in me because she hardly asked anything about me really, but she did wanted to know how I felt about her. I still continued because i was addicted to her, then I found out she also put new pictures in her profile and she never mentioned me this! Yes still wanted me to contact her all the time.
I was talking to the girl of my dreams and she to me, but why was I soaking about it everyday then? Because I knew of course it wasn't real.
She would write to me about a meaningless movie she seen the night before or that she found a lucky penny in the streets, really meaningless stuff! Never once asked for my situation at home.
I mean c'mon what serious looking women would discuss this? I never had the feeling she was searching for my inner soul...She saw my pictures, she would never say why she liked me unless i asked her but then she would use exclamation marks behind it! Felt like I was being beaten while sucked empty from my blood
And it lasted months! Months of feeling insecure and chasing a dream I wanted so bad to be real. And lost lot of my hard earned money as well :(
Is anyone able to feel sorry for me?
Did you ever go to meet this woman and how much time did you spend with her in person? Did she show any desire to meet you in person?
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Did you ever go to meet this woman and how much time did you spend with her in person? Did she show any desire to meet you in person?
I wanted to but she said she wanted to get to know me a little more better but also that she was excited to meet me!
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Did you ever go to meet this woman and how much time did you spend with her in person? Did she show any desire to meet you in person?
I wanted to but she said she wanted to get to know me a little more better but also that she was excited to meet me!
Yeah, that doesn't sound quite right. You can always try to find another woman in the same city and plan to meet the first one for dinner just to satisfy your own curiosity.
Your profile says that you've been to FSU 1-5 times. How did that go?
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To Upsylon - I'd like to hear more about your actual experiences, what sites you used to meet women, what countries did you search in, where are YOU from, how many women you actually met and dated etc. etc. etc...
When I was dating I did exactly what you suggested a few times. I sent out messages to 100 women and saw what came of it. I've got to say the results were great and I had a blast. I don't like Mr. Rasputin's flaming style here, but my experiences match his much more than yours or Mr. South.
A bit about me and my dating strategy.
-- I was living in Russia at this time. If I wasn't I wouldn't be dating in Russia! Long distance dating isn't for me.
-- I used two sites, singles.ru and loveplanet.ru. I know a lot about mail order bride sites and I wouldn't touch em.
-- I contacted mostly girls local to me and sometimes in nearby towns or places I planned to visit.
-- I understand Russian "ok" but I wrote only in English and mostly dated chicks with a decent command of English.
-- I contacted girls from 21 to 35 or so years old. 16 year max age difference.
-- I contacted girls mainly based on looks, but I'm a good judge for compatibility and I chased the same type of chicks I chased in the US and Europe. I don't like the porn star look or skinny "super models". Don't like made up, photoshot and photoshopped pics. So I chased after beauty but not the same kind that draws a lot men to fake "bride" sites.
-- I kept the first message a simple hello. I figured if a chick likes my pics and the bit I had to say in my profile she'd get back to me.
-- I'm a good looking guy in athletic shape. I'm well educated, ambitious and chicks usually dig my attitude and sense of humor. I'm a good catch and I know it and I approached dating with this frame of mind. I'm not shy. I'm never nervous around women. I'm well off, but I never showed this in my profiles.
Results were great.
-- Roughly 1/3 response rate. Of those I'd meet over half in person. Of 100 I'd end up with around around 20 dates. Very few single first dates. Fastest date was about 10 minutes from first contact. Longest first date lasted a week. Lots of really nice girls. A few strange ones.
Zero money hungry bitches made it to the first date, though I chatted briefly with a few, and actually they were nice, just made it clear that they were looking for a sponsorship deal and that's not my cup of tea. A few were girls looking for "love" their husbands weren't taking care of. I don't screw around with anyone's woman so those were no-gos.
Finding attractive + sexy+ family oriented + will wash dishes + will cook + intelligent (threw in a couple of things) was EASY to find. I had a lot of choices and I married the best. She can even stand on her head.
So can you tell more about your search and direct experiences? None of our single experiences represents what's really out there. Collectively we form a better picture of reality. It's interesting to hear from dudes that had the opposite experience as me, but more interesting to understand WHY. I started with some questions. If you can answer I appreciate it.
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Your profile says that you've been to FSU 1-5 times. How did that go?
I never did, mistake i fixed now!
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She would write to me about a meaningless movie she seen the night before or that she found a lucky penny in the streets, really meaningless stuff! Never once asked for my situation at home.
I mean c'mon what serious looking women would discuss this?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
To Ferreck - I know what ya mean! I know a few "translators" that would write these things. They'd laugh that dudes actually "fell in love" with the mindless garbage they write. No pity or remorse from them because they didn't feel like they led anyone on emotionally. They knew the only real emotions they could arouse with these type of letter was below the belt, you know what I mean.
So, my question to you is... what did you "fall in love" with. If the letters were meaningless and there was no connection of souls at all, were you just infatuated with photos?
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So, my question to you is... what did you "fall in love" with. If the letters were meaningless and there was no connection of souls at all, were you just infatuated with photos?
I fell in love with her because in the beginning she showed me so much affection and was so kind to accept me for what i was, but ofcourse it was a trap, i knew it from the beginning actually but i choose to be blind anyway, because i wanted it so bad.
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To Mr. South - Thanks for sharing a bit of your experiences. I'd also like to know what sites you used to meet women. Only Russian sites?
I completely understand what you went through. Strange to say because my dating experiences were vastly different. But I think the differences arise in that I always dated "as a local" even though I am a foreigner. What's happening on dating sites is the bane of the world wide web. The few ruin the experiences for the many and the MANY ruin the experiences of the many too!
On dating sites the few are the creeps that spam write every chick out there crude requests. The many are the lonely who write to every chick out of their league in hopes that one will show pity, and they sometimes do. The problem is any decent looking girl gets an inbox full of junk to sort through and internet dating becomes a tedious thankless chore.
For foreign guys it's worse. Foreigners seeking brides in Russia get a bad rap and hey, a lot of it is well deserved. A lot of dudes (especially from Turkey so I hear) try to impress with promises of cash and gifts, and spam girls on every site from singles.ru to facebook. Even girls that aren't materialistic with local guys will use a foreigner for some easy money because from the first contact they already have this negative stereotype in mind that you think you can buy them or impress just because your not from Russia.
One thing you need to realize is that these girls don't treat everyone the same. The same girl that seems like a money grubbing bitch, taking some dumb foreigner to the bank can be a sweet family oriented chick cooking her for Russian boyfriend.
If you can tell more about your specific approach and experiences I'd like to hear it.
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To Ferreck - Sorry to hear that, but you life and learn. Real affection doesn't come so quick in the virtual world. My guess is that you were blinded by "being accepted" by the type of chick that normally wouldn't give you the time of day, right?
Seek not to be accepted. Seek compatability and connection and you will fare well. Good luck my friend.
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I'm thinking, should i take revenge and post all her pictures and mails i have of her? Despite how she treated me like garbage I still have feelings for her.
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I'm thinking, should i take revenge and post all her pictures and mails i have of her? Despite how she treated me like garbage I still have feelings for her.
Did she scam you?
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Did she scam you?
Obvious yes but with the her translator as well. And the agency couldn't be bothered about it at all.
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I can't read minds. Would you please be specific about the details of the scam.
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I'm already embarrassed about it already, but in short, i lost money for the services required to correspond with her. Yes the agency was behind it as well!
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Did you make any payments directly to the girl?
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Konfushus, thanx, I'll tell you more about myself and i have comments for you.
I used LL, loveplanet.ru, mamba (with pay vip options) and various 100% free sites. No PPL or agencies.
Began fsu dating in 2005. It was better then (CLICK HERE (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15404.msg236104#msg236104)). My first date was an immediate success. We met, grabbed her, kissed her and we started a 4 y. of relation. She was a 19 y.o. student. I was 29, her first bf. She was attractive + sexy+ clever + family oriented + honest + washed dishes + cooked...
She visited Macedonia and fell in love with it. So women are not turned off by my country as Rasputin assumes. Some may be, but with such you arent sure if they want to marry you or a greencard. This girl proposed me a marriage and wished to move here. It was me who wasnt sure if I'm ready, got scared. It was a mistake, I begged forgivness, didn't work. It's longer and more complex.
On lp.ru, users can post comments on photos. I received little. But I found a 50 y.o. macedonian guy, good shape, rides motorcycles, who received MILIONS, all of them positive, posted by fsu women +40. This shows that: 1. the country is not a problem 2. mature women (esp divorced with kids) take online dating more seriously, than the young girls, who have local choices and join sites to "kill time" and be bitchy.
Thats the problem! Blinded by the good memories from my ex, I thought that all ru women are angels, which proved not to be true. I travelled to RU and UA to find a replacement, thinking it's easy. I had some success, short relations and sex and there were some dates, when nothing happened. I couldn't find anyone serious. I understood that my ex was an exception not a norm.
I'm single now and I see that online dating is changing to worse and worse. There are exceptions, but not many. I have some in my contact list but i don't know if they're worth the trouble.
Now my comments on your post:
Konfushus, you, as Rasputin, are not a typical fsu online seeker, because:
- You were living in Russia, which alone doesn't help all the way, but it's an advantage most of us don't have and you easily dated, even in a matter of minutes. I also had such experiences but locally.
- How long ago was it? Are you up-to-date with the current trends on the dating sites? In the past it was somewhat better. CLICK HERE (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15404.msg236104#msg236104)
- You say you are a good catch (athletic, handsome, intelligent). With such qualities, you could catch a good girl in the US, but you dated in the FSU cause you lived there. Most online seekers are not Brad Pitt like you :) so your experience cannot be compared to theirs. They are generaly unsuccesful at home, that's why they go to the FSU. Or some go, cause they want a better trade (like I do)
- You chased the same type of women, as you would in US or Europe. I'm not travelling to some Muhosransk to catch what I have at home. I travel far for a better offer. Otherwise makes no sence. But, don't get me wrong, I am realistic! I avoid photoshop and soft porn.
- You'd write just "hello" and if she likes your profile and pics, she'd get back to you. I tried all kinds of letters: long and personalized, templated, one-liners and finally just "hi". I'd write in english or in my fluent russian. Many don't even bother to read the profile and see all the pics. They see only the tiny main pic, which tells nothing. I'm not Bred Pitt, but I I'm not ugly. They receive milions of "hellos"/1-liners/long letters and what not from handsome/ugly/average guys from all around the world, so they don't care. That's the problem, the attention they get on the internet spoiled them and it seems that you us guys spoil women too much :)
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I used LL, loveplanet.ru, mamba (with pay vip options) and various 100% free sites. No PPL or agencies.
Began fsu dating in 2005. It was better then (CLICK HERE (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=15404.msg236104#msg236104)). My first date was an immediate success. We met, grabbed her, kissed her and we started a 4 y. of relation. She was a 19 y.o. student. I was 29, her first bf. She was attractive + sexy+ clever + family oriented + honest + washed dishes + cooked...
She visited Macedonia and fell in love with it. So women are not turned off by my country as Rasputin assumes. Some may be, but with such you arent sure if they want to marry you or a greencard. This girl proposed me a marriage and wished to move here. It was me who wasnt sure if I'm ready, got scared. It was a mistake, I begged forgivness, didn't work. It's longer and more complex.
On lp.ru, users can post comments on photos. I received little. But I found a 50 y.o. macedonian guy, good shape, rides motorcycles, who received MILIONS, all of them positive, posted by fsu women +40. This shows that: 1. the country is not a problem 2. mature women (esp divorced with kids) take online dating more seriously, than the young girls, who have local choices and join sites to "kill time" and be bitchy.
Thats the problem! Blinded by the good memories from my ex, I thought that all ru women are angels, which proved not to be true. I travelled to RU and UA to find a replacement, thinking it's easy. I had some success, short relations and sex and there were some dates, when nothing happened. I couldn't find anyone serious. I understood that my ex was an exception not a norm.
Konfushus, you, as Rasputin, are not a typical fsu online seeker, because:
- You were living in Russia, which alone doesn't help all the way, but it's an advantage most of us don't have and you easily dated, even in a matter of minutes. I also had such experiences but locally.
- You say you are a good catch (athletic, handsome, intelligent). With such qualities, you could catch a good girl in the US, but you dated in the FSU cause you lived there. Most online seekers are not Brad Pitt like you :) so your experience cannot be compared to theirs. They are generaly unsuccesful at home, that's why they go to the FSU. Or some go, cause they want a better trade (like I do)
- You chased the same type of women, as you would in US or Europe. I'm not travelling to some Muhosransk to catch what I have at home. I travel far for a better offer. Otherwise makes no sence. But, don't get me wrong, I am realistic! I avoid photoshop and soft porn.
- You'd write just "hello" and if she likes your profile and pics, she'd get back to you. I tried all kinds of letters: long and personalized, templated, one-liners and finally just "hi". I'd write in english or in my fluent russian. Many don't even bother to read the profile and see all the pics. They see only the tiny main pic, which tells nothing. I'm not Bred Pitt, but I I'm not ugly. They receive milions of "hellos"/1-liners/long letters and what not from handsome/ugly/average guys from all around the world, so they don't care. That's the problem, the attention they get on the internet spoiled them and it seems that you us guys spoil women too much :)
Very well written and true, I am older live in both Amsterdam and The United States have visited both Ukraine and Russia and dated women there.
Your story echoes mine and I also sense that you get only one shot to attract the women's attention.
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Longing, you are now 35 or close to it. Are you still chasing 19-year-olds? If you are, that would explain a lot of things.
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Longing, you are now 35 or close to it. Are you still chasing 19-year-olds? If you are, that would explain a lot of things.
nineTEEN ............. really, no one with intetions of marrige or even a serious relationship should ever be looking someone in their teens. I've been reading this post with interest, and after 7 years :RUS: here was going to contribute, but i think it's taken on a life of it's own !!!
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Did you make any payments directly to the girl?
No, the agency and translator would not allow to ask such a question anyway.
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krasavchik, I write now to women of various age, max.35, realisticly expecting replies from those 20-and-something or early 30's, no soft porn.
You say no one with serious intentions should look for teens. I don't specificaly look for them. I search "to 35" and I pick what attracts me, it can be 23, 27, 33, 19, as long as it's younger than me. As you see I had a teen student girl serious for her age. And she's not the only one. There are some, but they're exceptions not the norm, of course.
On the other hand, I've run up to women in their mid to late 20s, whom I expected to be mature, but were not. They want to have fun until "The Clock" starts ticking, and in these modern time thats ussualy at 35, not at 25 as some say.
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Did you make any payments directly to the girl?
No, the agency and translator would not allow to ask such a question anyway.
You should forget about taking revenge on the girl then. If anyone scammed you (and there is no certainty that such a scam occurred), it was the agency.
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Did you make any payments directly to the girl?
No, the agency and translator would not allow to ask such a question anyway.
You should forget about taking revenge on the girl then. If anyone scammed you (and there is no certainty that such a scam occurred), it was the agency.
True, Tom. The girl may have benefited directly or indirectly but the point is you learned a lesson the hard way. No matter what anyone else says you don't really have a real "boy&girl" relationship until you meet. Keep your emotions in check until you've developed a relationship face to face and you'll save yourself a lot of heartburn.
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True, Tom. The girl may have benefited directly or indirectly but the point is you learned a lesson the hard way. No matter what anyone else says you don't really have a real "boy&girl" relationship until you meet. Keep your emotions in check until you've developed a relationship face to face and you'll save yourself a lot of heartburn.
You hit the hammer right on the nail there! Its still very painfull to think about it :snivel: but ill remain single for a while now, i usually don't give up easily but it has really discouraged and depressed me alot, my system has been totally shocked. I need to re arrange everything in my mind again, i just cant believe myself for walking straight into this trap with my eyes wide open!
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South guy
There are generalities that on the face look irresponsible and false but if you pull them apart and examine them they can take on a different or better meaning.
I always have (and still) believe that R/U women are more traditional but many focus on the word traditional where I focus on the word "more".
It is so very easy to get dates with just about any woman in R/U but many of them may well be only out of curiosity on their part. There are women I almost had to beg to get a date with and there have been others that came searching me out.
Marriage agencies do scam but it is often you that allows it to happen. Scammers inhabit agencies but not all women in agencies are scammers. This goes straight to who you choose to contact.
Women outside of agencies are a possibility but they often do not want to learn a foreign language or move outside their country. The agencies are where you find those that do wish to emigrate. And while pictures can be a deciding factor, never shy away from ones that do not entirely meet your expectations. Pictures are deceptive.
Over roughly 10 years of living in both countries and owning 2 marriage agencies, 3 private businesses, I met with close to 2000 women from the former and only dated 2 of them. Aside from those two there were two others that I was very interested in but they were already in a relationship with a client. Out of two relationships, one thought I was more rich than I was due to simple translation differences and the other lied to me (something I do not accept in the smallest form) resulting in my dumping her on the spot.
In the end I myself went to an agency that was middle of the road honest and used most of their services. I easily saw gaps in their honesty but nothing that really bothered or affected me much. Since my own personal problem in life was getting involved with the wrong type women and using passion as a base, I decided to let the women do most of the choosing and focus on friendship more than passion. The result was the most fantastic relationship I have ever experienced for the last 6 years.
I am not saying that because I did it you can or should also. Not saying this is the way to go. I have seen all ways and all kinds of startings and endings good and bad. The only one I do not recommend is going just to meet one woman even if it works for some.
I am saying that some people find that one person in a short month while others can spend 10 years and more.
I am saying that scammers do not just inhabit agencies. They long ago learned it is just as good going solo at free listings and facebook where they have complete control.
I am saying that a woman may scam you and yet fall madly in love with some other guy and do anything for him.
I am saying that you can find whatever you look for in R/U either good or bad but it can also take time. How much time and money are you willing to put into finding what you cannot find at home? You found it once and it may be some years and a thousand women before you find it again but you will find it if you continue.
And for the record I am not comfortable financially at all, am at the age where I am showing it faster, speak very little Russian, have never promised a visa or even marriage and our age gap is 20 years.
For some men it is more difficult. The color or shade of your skin cuts down many prospects especially in Russia. The country you come from can cut out prospects. Your scamability can increase your insincere replies. Your financial status can make or break most barriers. In my case I am stuck in my ways and do not care to change so am not willing to be pushed by a domineering woman or placated by a weak one.
I wouldn't whine about it, just get on with it, or not.
Scott Walyer
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To Mr South - I last used online dating sites about 2 1/2 years ago. You expect me to believe things have changed in just 2 years? Well, guess what pal? ....... Of course I can believe it. ;D Online dating changed real quick in the US. Things have been changing real quick in Russia in general. Put them together and yes, I'm sure a foreigner crusing Russian sites is going to be less lucky than even a few years ago. You need to stand out from all the creeps and your first contact is probably cast aside before you get the chance to do it.
Can you tell us what type of response rate you recently get? Do any chicks basically just tell you to f--- off because you're a foreigner?
What hasn't changed though is the women. There are still a lot of great girls here. I don't know what it's like in Macedonia, but compared to the US I'd say girls here are in general prettier, more feminine, more likely to cook and clean (you can call that more traditional) and have a more open attitude towards dating. Yeah yeah, sounds like some bride site hype, but the irony is the hardest place to find this type of woman that is SERIOUS is on a bride site. Most of them are happy to find love right here in Russia. Think about it... if you want a traditional family girl... she's not going to be looking too hard to leave her traditions and family, right?
I've seen vast differences between groups of women that came as brides to the US and groups that I've spent time with here (friends, wives and girlfriends of friends).
You're right that I didn't date like a normal foreigner looking here, but I need to clarify a few things to bring you comments closer to reality.
-- I'm a good looking dude, but no Brad Pitt. Actually I've been told I looked like Billy Zane and Peter Gabriel when I was younger. I'm losing my hair like these guys at least ha ha. I'm not quite a Billy Zane either. But ok, we'll leave it at I'm a good catch.
-- I dated similar type of girls in the US.... but much less frequently! I was a very pick young man and very few chicks met my criteria. When I came to Russia, man did things change. If 1 in 100 girls interested me in the US, here it was 1 in 10. I told myself I wouldn't marry unless I found absolute perfection, and I did! I couldn't find such a gem back home.
-- A friend of mine was just out here visiting. Back home he was never a stud. Here it was like prince charming came to town. There are certain qualities that women appreciate here more than in the US, so some men will natually do better here.
It sounds to me that you need a different approach. The new wave is using sites like vKontakte, mirtesen and Facebook. The few are already ruining things for the many, but I think these are the way to go these days. My main suggestion though is to look inside yourself. Become a better man and you can find that step up you're looking for back at home.
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To Ferreck - Don't kid yourself. You don't and never had any feelings for this girl. There was no girl to have feelings for. Your either had a lustful fantasy based on some sexy pics or "feelings" for a dude copying and pasting dull letters of affection for you. Take your pick. Either way it's something you should laugh off and move on unless you're going to take on this agency. There's no chick to take revenge on, she has no idea you even exist.
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There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
sometimes it's even worse, all what you get is not even a word but only smileys as reply...
OK, this is ridiculous! The passage of conversation regurgitated here shows the replies from a women who just isn't into you or moreover a women that is responding to a person who is lacking in the skills to make interesting/engaging conversation with the opposite sex and clearly finds the author's line of questioning flat out boring. It really is as simple as that!
Listen to the female members advice here it will serve you well, of course you won't, but that just about sums it up really doesn't it?
Failing that kenny here has offered a great alternative for you :thumbsup:
Gentlemen? Why not just slit your wrists and be done with it or buy a pair of assless chaps and go looking for someone who offers to help you "push in your stool"?
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I wouldn't whine about it, just get on with it, or not.
Scott Walyer
Your whole post was good but the last bit was spot-on tiphat
FWIW the whining displayed on this thread shows the exact opposite trait these ladies look for in a potential partner, maybe its some guys problem (:)
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To Ferreck - Don't kid yourself. You don't and never had any feelings for this girl. There was no girl to have feelings for. Your either had a lustful fantasy based on some sexy pics or "feelings" for a dude copying and pasting dull letters of affection for you. Take your pick. Either way it's something you should laugh off and move on unless you're going to take on this agency. There's no chick to take revenge on, she has no idea you even exist.
That is simply not true! Ive seen her on webcam and chatted with her. And my feeling for her was real and not just because of her looks.
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Upsylon:
You'll eventually find out that the women in those "sites" are a humongous minority and definitely not representative of the former Soyuz.
Notice that I will NOT disagree that there are women on these sites that are what you claim them to be.
For having used many sites during long time and with very very numerous contacts, believe me a large part of fsu women are like i described. many friends of mine having experienced online dating with these creatures think exactly the same.
I've been traveling so probably missed a good few pages in this now long thread, but it seems to be keeping the same theme - pretty much griping that many/most/"all" FSU women on some as of yet still unknown sites are, well, like a lot of women Western guys gripe about in their home countries.
Someone commented about Rasputin being provoking - I've found Ras to be among the more level headed, less intentionally offensive people here, and well worth listening to, likewise for Muzh and some of the others posting in thread. Not everyone's experience is as "long ago" as Ras' and I can assure you many of us do remain in contact with friends and family of our FSU partners. Few people have said you can't find bad eggs out there, even easily, moreso on some sites, and certainly it can be like finding a needle in a haystack, especially with the wrong expectations, or chasing after those that to someone else, may quite obviously be a gold-digger or have less than good intentions.
If nearly everyone with experience is saying their own experiences have been counter to the claims about "all" or "most," the most likely "solution" is the simplest - either you(anyone) has different, unusual or perhaps unusual expectations, is seeking out a certain "type" of woman less likely to lead to anything serious, perhaps isn't able to evaluate/separate the good from the rest, or perhaps are using a site that is more populated with "bad" than good. Or a combination of one or more of the above.
Spanning a couple of sites, I must have seen 10,000 or more profiles, as for a time, I had quite a bit of free time on my hands. This is in addition to working with Eduard for a time. I had written to somewhere over 100, with another perhaps 200 or so writing to me as first contact (likely more, but I'm not considering every one liner message that a quick glance at a profile immediately said, 'No way!'). The first woman I'd talked to was, well, "off" - insanely jealous while we'd just "met," tried to push things very quickly, and tried to be manipulative. It took a few days to get that, but in reality not much time at all. To this day, I can't say with certainty what her story was - she could very well have been a green card girl, looking for someone to keep her in $, or just excessively high maintenance - either way, it didn't matter, it's time to move on once you see things aren't a match.
The rest? Some scammers, some far too young to take seriously, some very obviously high maintenance...again, regardless of their ultimate goal/plans, just moving on is the sanest path there. There were some women that I have no doubt would make excellent partners for someone, just not necessarily for me. There were also a few I saw could easily become good "friends," but not necessarily partners, and some that had some potential for more. All in all, there were perhaps a dozen women I maintained any type of longer communications with over time, at least half of which had no chance of us being "partners," but they knew this, and we chose to stay in friendly communication, one was practicing English, another obviously not a match but was an interesting and good woman, another far too young but interesting, etc. My first visit to someone didn't work out as expected - nothing sinister involved, no spending or being asked for large quantities of money (actually, the opposite), it just didn't work out, just like that thing we call "real life."
Some women took very little time to know they weren't a potential real good fit, a few others took some real time to come to that conclusion - and nothing to do with them being "bad" in some way, just in some personality, lifestyle, or expectation differences that made long term happiness a real question in our cases, but I would expect any of them to very easily be a great match for someone else.
There were also a few in there that I wound up communicating with for some time, that I thought had "potential," at least for a time, but I was pretty much "lost in the candy store" - very interesting and attractive women, but in looking past that, really didn't have very much in common, or very much that would likely lead to a satisfying long term relationship. Some others had various degrees of real potential, at least for the amount of time in communication with them, a few of them as a result of Ed..but I'd mostly taken a "break" from actively looking for new pen pals, while realizing just how much time I was spending and looking forward to, communicating with someone in particular that had started on a "friends" basis.
The point? Well, I'm a fairly "picky" guy, and I'm paid to think. Things that for me could be/were a negative in a potential long term relationship very well wouldn't be for someone else, which is fine, as we're all different people. I'd communicated with quite a few, as well as seen some of our (some now former) RUA FSUW posters, that would/will very likely make someone a very happy partner in life. If, however, someone is too quick to focus on the negatives in their overall experience, or keeps down a path of "looking" that obviously isn't working for them, repeating the same thing is likely to return the same (less than good) results, time and again.
From a purely guesstimate standpoint, I'd wager that at least somewhere around 20-40% of my contacts were "real women," meaning at least somewhat well balanced, without insane expectations (like "only interested in someone with a 7 figure income or larger", etc.), but with different personalities, expectations and lifestyles, some of which may well be a good match for someone else out there. The other 60% or so/maybe more ? It just doesn't matter - if they want to be a top fashion model or actress, good for them if they are only looking for someone to further that dream, but it's not me, so why pretend otherwise? Likewise on those wanting to be "kept," with unrealistic income or lifestyle "ideals," etc.
That still by comparison to local dating, gave some reasonably good odds - for dating, it probably blew locally out of the water, even though I've always gotten pretty good responses locally..of course, dating is easier by far, and for most, doesn't usually consider real longer term compatibility. Was any of it "easy"? Nope. However, the number of responses, and the number of responses from actual interesting and attractive women, regardless of the numbers truly possibly longer term compatible, blew local sites and the local bar scene out of the water. I communicated with some women with very successful careers, that in the US would almost guarantee a "relationships are second or lower in priority, always" type of mentality, and while I won't say that sort aren't out there as well, it was by no means an "almost guarantee."
Now, you can say my experience is "dated," but I'd say it's not so - I met my future/now wife a bit over 2 years ago from today in person for the first time, and we recently celebrated our 1 year anniversary. All things considered, there have been days when my wife is in shock thinking about how lucky we were to have managed to find each other, and jokes being mad at me why couldn't I have found her sooner? For a change, I was up early on a weekend and she slept in, so I went in to give her a kiss, got a huge smile an very nice "good morning," and all is well here - sure, the more cynical could say, "oh, wait until the permanent green card is in hand," which is always a possibility, but it's pretty obvious each day how highly she places "us."
FWIW, she considers most 20-23YOs to be "children," herself included when at that age, now coming up on 30.
I can only suggest the same as mentioned previously:
- Take a good look at yourself, and what you are looking for, expectations, and decide if they are realistic, or maybe simply "incomplete," leading you to chase those that really aren't a good fit. It may well be that you have reasonable expectations, but aren't looking too deeply/"carefully" at some of your potential pen-pals.
- Offer the site(s) you are using, or at the very least, consider what others, ideally those who have been "successful" have had to say about the site(s) in question. You may be choosing a site lowering your odds of success.
- Don't focus so much on the bad experiences, leave them behind. This doesn't mean ignore the dangers, but it does mean allowing something to succeed without too much negativity up front.
- Be aware that yes, it may be like a needle in a haystack - not everything worthwhile in life is "easy," just accept it, and do whatever you can to improve your own personal odds at success.
Best of luck!
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To Ferreck - My mistake. From your description it sounded like you were exchanging emails only. Did you voice chat on webcam, or did you converse typing only through an interpreter?
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Btw a funny thing, related to our online dating discussion. I'm paralely logged into a dating site.
1. As I said before, in the past, women would write me letters of a decent lenght:
"My name is _____, I live in _______, I work/study in _______, my hobby is ________".
2. Then they started squeezing them to one-line sentences "fine thanx, how r u?" or "ОК, спс, как у тя?"
3. And now I receive replies consisted of just one word :)
There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
I shouldn't complain, as I don't receive many replies. I should be very grateful that this princess took some of her precious time for a mortal like me.
And, of course, needles to say, she never bothered to check the profile of the person she is talking to. OK, this is just one bad example, it's not the norm, but trust me there're many similar to her.
Very true, the rare times you get an answer, it is extremely brief, fade, careless and generic... impossible to create any deep discussion, tiring trying endlessly to feed the discussion with a person not keen to communicate and not curious in his interlocutor... and as you said they never read profiles anyway, their emptiness and superficiality are too high for it. they just like the idea to receive attention, but unable to give some. too focused on their little person.
Guys - which site(s) are you using, and what would you say your percentage of "real responses" are? (more than a single word, but not necessarily a long first response.)
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There's a girl I'm "talking" to (if that can be called a "conversation"). She is "seriously" interested in finding an "adequate second half" to make "cosy home" with. I'm asking her questions and she answers them with:
"Yes.", "No.", "Maybe.", "Perhaps.", "Nice.", "Awful.", "Dunno.", "Work.", "Study.", "Music.", "Sport.", "Hi.", "Bye."
sometimes it's even worse, all what you get is not even a word but only smileys as reply...
OK, this is ridiculous! The passage of conversation regurgitated here shows the replies from a women who just isn't into you or moreover a women that is responding to a person who is lacking in the skills to make interesting/engaging conversation with the opposite sex and clearly finds the author's line of questioning flat out boring. It really is as simple as that!
Listen to the female members advice here it will serve you well, of course you won't, but that just about sums it up really doesn't it?
Nonsence, Bruce Lee, how do you know what am I writting to the girls on the dating sites and if thats' "boring" or "unclever" ect.? How can you judge me by the replies that I get?! The replies tell you abouyt the other person, not about me!
Also, if the other person is not into me, no one's forcing her to respond. Better no reply, than a stupid reply.
Actually, you see very well that I don't lack a talent of writting and skills of communication (even in english and russian, which are not my native languages). I'm an intelligent person and I can be a very interesting interlocutor, of course with a woman who has some brains and who knows how to make a conversation and has willingness to do it. Don't forget that it takes TWO for tango.
If the other person answers with "yes", "no", "maybe" like an idiot then it's her who shows a lack of intelligence OR disrespect and unwillingness for something serious, the problem is not in me. Stop defending the women who are obviously wrongdoing, stop licking their shoes. Be a man, bang on the table with a fist and tell it as it is!
There are very good fsu women, but right now we are talking about the bad ones, that's the subject of this thread. It's not "whining" to criticise (in an argumented way) something that is wrong. Or you want only 'rosy' comments? I'm sorry, life is not Disneyland.
Second, I don't take the fsu ladies advices, not because I disrespect them, but because of several reasons:
1. They can often be biased and defend their "sisters" even when they are wrong. This is a trait of the fsu women I'm well familiar with from many dating forums. They will always try to put the blame on the man, even if the woman is wrongdoing. Objectiveness and unbiasedness do not seem to be their strong sides. There are always some exceptions, of course.
2. I don't know all the ladies on this forum. I have an impression (which may be wrong), that many of them are mature ladies (sometimes divorced with kids), who married mature WM. For example, molly35ru mentioned that she has a 23 y.o. daughter. The advices of these mature fsu ladies can be useful for men courting mature women, but these advices are not so useful for someone courting girls in their 20's. The mindset of a younger girl is normally, quite different, due to her age, life experience, the current trends ect. There're exceptions to every rule, of course, but generaly, it is like that.
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Second, I don't take the fsu ladies advices, not because I disrespect them, but because of several reasons:
1. They can often be biased and defend their "sisters" even when they are wrong. This is a trait of the fsu women I'm well familiar with from many dating forums. They will always try to put the blame on the man, even if the woman is wrongdoing. Objectiveness and unbiasedness do not seem to be their strong sides. There are always some exceptions, of course.
Longing, you claim to be an intelligent guy. Have you ever heard the term introspect? Self-assessment?
No disrespect here, honestly, but don't be so intransigent regarding your POV.
Remember, fans on the stands view the game very differently from the guys in the playing field.
Just saying.
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There are very good fsu women, but right now we are talking about the bad ones, that's the subject of this thread. It's not "whining" to criticise (in an argumented way) something that is wrong. Or you want only 'rosy' comments? I'm sorry, life is not Disneyland.
I would be interested in seeing some of the profiles of the women you are writing to :evilgrin0002: I expect that you are targetting a certain type of woman and getting predictable results :Zzzzsleep:
Are there vain women, yes. Are there spoiled princesses. Yes. However, it is easy enough to simply move on. Why obsess about the "bad ones" when a good one is just a click away :biggrin:
The advices of these mature fsu ladies can be useful for men courting mature women, but these advices are not so useful for someone courting girls in their 20's.
Again, if you are pursuing women mainly in their very early 20s, I would expect most of them to reject you outright or to be largely indifferent (hence one word replies).
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RG: I am saying that there is rarely the amount of luck/whatever that somehow makes meeting someone from another country "easy," let alone someone compatible in reality, on the first mail, on the first dozen, etc.
The whole point of FSU dating was that it was "EASY" (in quotes). If people knew it's a tough job, it wouldn't become so popular. Now that we know it's not easy, the FSU loses it's meaning, cause the "easyness" was it's most important element. "No luck with AW? It's easy to get a girl in the FSU, there're plenty of them, every loser can get one, just use our services".
The dating industry spread the myth, that in the fsu it is "easy" to find a partner, who will be: attractive + sexy+ family oriented + will wash dishes + will stand on her head = perfect (with ads featuring hot smoking blondes).
Yeah, I think "easy" is a bit over-used. I'd say it's quite easy to get a response from an attractive, sometimes interesting girl, and that especially if there or planning to go to the FSU already, it's easy enough to get a "date," and with someone by appearance, that may be a few notches up in physical beauty vs the norm of local dating. Of course, that is not to say that each of those "dates" hold promise for long term, or that none of them would want any gifts/expensive meals/presents, whatever. I do believe the odds are better, but there may be it's own set of challenges - you may well get a higher percentage of responses, but that doesn't mean they are all angels, nor even men in some cases, or without some less than honorable motivation. It's actually a good thing to question the myths and "motivations," and if in doubt, perhaps closing your eyes, and blocking out "her" picture while thinking of each person - may help in considering if someone seems "for real and a potential long term match" or "a date, at best." Just my opinion, of course, but it did help me to sort out the "fantasies I hadn't thought enough on real details" vs the quality/chances of a real "match."
My wife is the first 3, also thankfully very intelligent, and will do the 4th, but i don't know too many women who "live to do dishes" ;D
That's, of course, a pure lie or it was a reallity for some in the 90's and early 2000's, when the fsu was opening, the economy was down and women married foreigners for better life or cause it was "cool". Also, the internet back then was something new and exciting.
Many WM are victims of this myth, they believed that hordes of attractive women are just dying to marry them. Men expected too much and you can't blame them. Many were stupid or naive, you can say it's their fault, but someone spread that myth on purpose (for money). If they convince me to buy spoiled milk, I'm naive, but who is more to be blamed? Me or the business who sold it to me? It's called a false advertisement and a scam. And this is one of the worst forms of a scam, cause it's an emotional manipulation.
No argument there. That's one of the places forums like this one, when the commercial advertising is taken out of the equation, Manny's book, and similar, can be a big help, sorting out the myths from the realities. We do of course, still see a guy posting who buys into the myths hook, line and sinker, and is expecting the 22YO supermodel to leave her world where she's been bought cars, an apartment, etc., for Joe the Plumber, and should somehow be happy about it. ;D In some cases, the expectations are built on those same myths/propaganda, and sometimes no matter the dose of reality people try to give, Joe will just keep believing he simply hasn't yet found the right one to "compare well to the myths."
Some people were succesful in this story, but it's a small minority, mainly consisting of divorced WM married to single mothers aged over 40. Not many got one of those hot blondes from the ads (and where are they now? with their local boyfriends, of course).
Well, Manny's wife is in one of those ads. It doesn't mean your statement is wrong, though. "Even" Moby seems to have done rather well for himself (light kidding, nothing serious Moby :) ), but most took some lumps along the way, either in sorting out the reality from the myth, coming across a few bad experiences along the way, or well, potentially being quite lucky (or not, depending) along the way. Then unfortunately, are the crowd of people buying hook line and sinker into the myths, not looking for any information that might say otherwise or force them to look more at "reality."
So, now we have this useful forum, and we all learned, that it's not easy to find a quality partner in the FSU. It takes a lot of work, sometimes too much. So, if it's not easy, why the hell many WM still go there, wasting money, nerves, risking various problems?
You will say "have realistic expectations", "lower your criteria" and you will achieve success. Well, if I lower my criteria, then I can find a partner in my own country. There're some girls (not like thousands, but few) who are crazy about me, but the whole point of my fsu dating was to catch something better and in an easier way than in my country.
But it's going nowhere. So, now I am lowering my criteria every day more and more, and finally I will hit the bottom writting to some fat and ugly fsu women with moustaches and even they will not reply or even bother to check the profile. The FSU dating is slowly but surely dying, someone has to do some very radical changes to keep it alive.
Hmm. It's a good point, but a little hard to qualify on "realistic expectations," as what one person considers realistic, another may say is completely unrealistic. I would not say it's easy, or at least it wasn't "easy" for me, but that's a relative statement. I do feel as if in a 6-12 month period of "seeking in the FSU," that the number of attractive, intelligent, decent women was certainly higher vs locally only. This is not solely based on looks, but the "whole person or whole package"...and assuming someone is reasonably attractive, intelligent, and well balanced, I would expect the same to hold true - give a reasonable or good site (or in person), not seeking teenagers or early 20-somethings as the preference, that a decent man can at least triple or quadruple his chances of meeting someone extraordinary vs locally alone, assuming also the intent is more than dating, and that he has a good BS detector. I can also see how if someone gets caught up in a picture/thinking with the wrong head, such a thing can easily turn into years without "results."
I do agree in general, though - you should not be "settling" by continuously lowering standards below whatever they may be locally, unless those standards have been shown to be unrealistic - it may take longer, it may mean more sorting out of chaff from the wheat, or perhaps looking into a different site or avenue to meeting.
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
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Did you make any payments directly to the girl?
No, the agency and translator would not allow to ask such a question anyway.
You should forget about taking revenge on the girl then. If anyone scammed you (and there is no certainty that such a scam occurred), it was the agency.
+1/+many
There is no evidence that she actually was involved in anything here, other than it didn't work out, and that you may want to look at other routes, perhaps.
There are a lot of questionable agencies/sites out there, sadly.
Easier and perhaps more beneficial to simply write a negative review of your experience with that site, and move on/look elsewhere.
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Why the hell are you even on this forum or why would you ever even consider dating someone from Russia or Ukraine? Your mental attitude sucks, especially for someone your age. I can't imagine how you are going to feel after a divorce or two!
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-- I dated similar type of girls in the US.... but much less frequently! I was a very pick young man and very few chicks met my criteria. When I came to Russia, man did things change. If 1 in 100 girls interested me in the US, here it was 1 in 10. I told myself I wouldn't marry unless I found absolute perfection, and I did! I couldn't find such a gem back home.
Just to weigh in, I really agree with much of what Konfushus has posted in this thread, perhaps in fewer words than I have, too. :)
The above is a very good example - while we could argue the numbers, the point remains valid, there is in general a better rate of response or interest than whatever your personal "average" may be locally. Whether you do poorly or well at "home," you will inevitably do better and have more options in the FSU. This can also be seen "on the ground" - some very attractive women can be much easier to engage in completely random conversation with.
Note that no numbers necessarily indicate they are all of perfect virtue nor perfect matches, but anything that improves your chances of success is in general a good thing, even if at some times it seems like it is only improving your BS detector. :)
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
You know, when you guys started writing this thread, i actually had a bit of sympathy for you. I was even going to write some stuff of my own 7 years here and the experience of numerous other foreigners who've been here, and the opinions of locals, including older women on how the country has changed. BUT this ridiculously bitter attack on Ukrainian and Russian girls is just wrong. If you've had a bad experience(s) then just deal with it and move on. Constantly whining about it and the women is doing you no favours. If you have such a bad impression of the women then just forget them and date the local girls or try girls from another country :'(. It's not rocket science. If something is making you so bitter and angry then leave it and forget about it. living in the past is a terrible way to live because you can never change it !!!
Not only are you probably upsetting men with wives from said countries, but i'm sure the women themselves. What a great way to put off FSU women from using the forum :thumbsup:
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Which country are you from, BTW? How about we brand all men from your country as egotistical twats whom your native women have obviously rejected and with such massive chips on you shoulders that you can't go out and form honest, meaningful relationships with ANYONE, let alone the women from the FSU, who, as most on this forum will know, have nothing in common with the description you have provided.
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Tell me, how many Russians and Ukrainians have you actually met in person? Hundreds? Thousands? Please, let us know your sample size that allowed you to come to the above conclusion...
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Then the solution is clear: look for Belarusian girls
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
You know, when you guys started writing this thread, i actually had a bit of sympathy for you. I was even going to write some stuff of my own 7 years here and the experience of numerous other foreigners who've been here, and the opinions of locals, including older women on how the country has changed. BUT this ridiculously bitter attack on Ukrainian and Russian girls is just wrong. If you've had a bad experience(s) then just deal with it and move on. Constantly whining about it and the women is doing you no favours. If you have such a bad impression of the women then just forget them and date the local girls or try girls from another country :'(. It's not rocket science. If something is making you so bitter and angry then leave it and forget about it. living in the past is a terrible way to live because you can never change it !!!
Not only are you probably upsetting men with wives from said countries, but i'm sure the women themselves. What a great way to put off FSU women from using the forum :thumbsup:
How do we know it is ONLY Russian and Ukrainian girls? How do we know it is with ALL girls? That's the impression I'm getting and if that is the case, start looking at a monastery; or guys; or both.
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Considering your thoughts about women from Russia and Ukraine perhaps a Golden Retriever might be a better object to search for.
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Nonsence, Bruce Lee, how do you know what am I writting to the girls on the dating sites and if thats' "boring" or "unclever" ect.? How can you judge me by the replies that I get?! The replies tell you abouyt the other person, not about me!
Also, if the other person is not into me, no one's forcing her to respond. Better no reply, than a stupid reply.
Actually, you see very well that I don't lack a talent of writting and skills of communication (even in english and russian, which are not my native languages). I'm an intelligent person and I can be a very interesting interlocutor, of course with a woman who has some brains and who knows how to make a conversation and has willingness to do it. Don't forget that it takes TWO for tango.
Longing, you have actually made some good constructive comments on this thread but also some grand generalisations. I assume you're pretty much the same age as I was when I first started this thing and my experience doesn't date back a vast amount of years. At this age you should be way up the food chain and have your pick of some decent ladies and those posted responses from bored sounding ladies do not need to be tolerated. You get bored, tired uninterested replies, just disconnect and start corresponding with somebody else, pretty simple really!!
I've written a trip report here (in some depth) covering the first 2 ladies that I met, however I have the feeling I will indeed be classed as an "old fart" when I eventually get it finished but at the moment my opinion and views represent those of one of the youngest senior members here and hopefully you'll take a few suggestions on-board or at the very least not dismiss them all together!
FWIW your well thought out replies will make a good addition to this forum, just maybe hold back on the negativity a bit, this thing should be fun! PM me anytime if you wish!
However....
As for this guy, we're all wasting our time on this waste of bandwidth. Upsylon you've joined the forum and offered nothing apart from sharing your not so vast experience and taring the entire FSU female population with the same brush, pretty weak IMHO and I will waste no more time responding to this rubbish and hopefully my fellow members will follow suite!
I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
I will offer no flames and insults apart from the obvious - just grow up and get over it!
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Bruce Lee: Longing, you have actually made some good constructive comments on this thread but also some grand generalisations. I assume you're pretty much the same age as I was when I first started this thing and my experience doesn't date back a vast amount of years. At this age you should be way up the food chain and have your pick of some decent ladies and those posted responses from bored sounding ladies do not need to be tolerated. You get bored, tired uninterested replies, just disconnect and start corresponding with somebody else, pretty simple really!!
I give some a chance, assuming they use a mobile phone, which is uncomfortable, but if I see no willingness for a decent conversation from their side soon, then I disconnect. The problem is that there're too many not serious women, so moving on doesn't help.
With some I develop a decent communication, then we exchange Vkontakte, Odnoklassniki (I see their profiles, they're obviously real) but sooner or later, it proves that they're not serious.
For example, the correspondece goes well and at a right moment, I'd suggest that we skype, when she has a free time. If the girl seems shy, I even don't insist on a cam in the first conversation.
And they say "why? what's wrong with just typing here?", I'm saying "you are an interesting person, I'd like to know you better" and some are like "Wooh hold your horses... you take this online dating thing SERIOUSLY? :) ", "yeah, I told you i'm looking for a serious person, first to communicate and then, who knows, maybe to meet in real.." and they say "i wish you luck in finding your second half, I'm just killing time here". Some add irony like "obviously i don't deserve you :)) move on". Pure timewasting.
Men take online dating much more seriously. They are willing to travel to unknown countries, spend lots of time and money and go through various troubles to find love, while many women just don't care, it's all game for them. Thats' where my negativity comes from.
Bruce Lee: I've written a trip report here (in some depth) covering the first 2 ladies that I met, however I have the feeling I will indeed be classed as an "old fart" when I eventually get it finished but at the moment my opinion and views represent those of one of the youngest senior members here and hopefully you'll take a few suggestions on-board or at the very least not dismiss them all together!
FWIW your well thought out replies will make a good addition to this forum, just maybe hold back on the negativity a bit, this thing should be fun! PM me anytime if you wish!
Thanks and yeah, I'd love to read your trip report.
Speaking of Upsylon's behaviour, I agree that it is soemtimes too cynical and harsh, but generaly I agree with him that the situation on the dating sites is very bad. At least for the younger population. His way of expressing is too harsh, but there is truth in what he sometimes says.
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Bruce Lee: Longing, you have actually made some good constructive comments on this thread but also some grand generalisations. I assume you're pretty much the same age as I was when I first started this thing and my experience doesn't date back a vast amount of years. At this age you should be way up the food chain and have your pick of some decent ladies and those posted responses from bored sounding ladies do not need to be tolerated. You get bored, tired uninterested replies, just disconnect and start corresponding with somebody else, pretty simple really!!
I give some a chance, assuming they use a mobile phone, which is uncomfortable, but if I see no willingness for a decent conversation from their side soon, then I disconnect. The problem is that there're too many not serious women, so moving on doesn't help.
With some I develop a decent communication, then we exchange Vkontakte, Odnoklassniki (I see their profiles, they're obviously real) but sooner or later, it proves that they're not serious.
For example, the correspondece goes well and at a right moment, I'd suggest that we skype, when she has a free time. If the girl seems shy, I even don't insist on a cam in the first conversation.
And they say "why? what's wrong with just typing here?", I'm saying "you are an interesting person, I'd like to know you better" and some are like "Wooh hold your horses... you take this online dating thing SERIOUSLY? :) ", "yeah, I told you i'm looking for a serious person, first to communicate and then, who knows, maybe to meet in real.." and they say "i wish you luck in finding your second half, I'm just killing time here". Some add irony like "obviously i don't deserve you :)) move on". Pure timewasting.
Men take online dating much more seriously. They are willing to travel to unknown countries, spend lots of time and money and go through various troubles to find love, while many women just don't care, it's all game for them. Thats' where my negativity comes from.
Bruce Lee: I've written a trip report here (in some depth) covering the first 2 ladies that I met, however I have the feeling I will indeed be classed as an "old fart" when I eventually get it finished but at the moment my opinion and views represent those of one of the youngest senior members here and hopefully you'll take a few suggestions on-board or at the very least not dismiss them all together!
FWIW your well thought out replies will make a good addition to this forum, just maybe hold back on the negativity a bit, this thing should be fun! PM me anytime if you wish!
Thanks and yeah, I'd love to read your trip report.
Speaking of Upsylon's behaviour, I agree that it is soemtimes too cynical and harsh, but generaly I agree with him that the situation on the dating sites is very bad. At least for the younger population. His way of expressing is too harsh, but there is truth in what he sometimes says.
Maybe this could be the problem, you could be coming over as being too serious, instead of letting the communication and any potential relationship develop naturally. Often saying to someone you hardly know that you are looking for a wife or serious relationship can often scare them away, you may appear needy.
Imagine yourself on a first date and the rolls reversed and the women immediately starts talking weddings and babies......a majority of guys will be running for the hills.
Try just relaxing more and not concentrating on the end goal, it will open up more potential future friendships which could possibly develop into something more serious.
There is some truth in the phrase you often find what your looking for when you stop searching.
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Blue Sky: Maybe this could be the problem, you could be coming over as being too serious, instead of letting the communication and any potential relationship develop naturally. Often saying to someone you hardly know that you are looking for a wife or serious relationship can often scare them away, you may appear needy.
Imagine yourself on a first date and the rolls reversed and the women immediately starts talking weddings and babies......a majority of guys will be running for the hills.
Try just relaxing more and not concentrating on the end goal, it will open up more potential future friendships which could possibly develop into something more serious.
There is some truth in the phrase you often find what your looking for when you stop searching.
I understand. When I ask a girl in my country for a date, I'm not mad to mention feelings or marriage or a relationship, that's too much and is considered "lame" or "pathetic". I just say "let's go for a coffee" in a nonchalant way. I don't say "I really like you very much now come I will kiss you", but at a right moment, I just grab her and kiss her. If I want sex, I'd tell her "let's go to my place" not like "let's discuss the.. hmm.. you know... birds and the bees... you see... I like you very much and... you know, I was thinking like, perhaps we could..."
It's strange for me when I see in some travel reports, like, the guy goes travels 1000's of miles to the fsu and he's seeing a girl for several days (sightseeing, bowling, whatever), and nothing happens, he doesn't do anything and one day he says to her "look...i think we should discuss our mutual feelings, you see I really like you and I think that.... and so on". I don't do that. Less talk, more rock.
But the problem is: I have already tried a relaxed approach, which you suggest, with many fsu women. I have tried milions of different approaches: "Serious", "playful", "romantic", "bad motherf...er". It leads nowhere, they don't care.
Sometimes it does lead to a real-life date, but then, you meet her and you see that you can't develop anything serious with her. You know why Blue Sky? Because you took a relaxed approach, which attracted a relaxed person, who is not interested in anything serious ("ok, this guy doesn't mention serious relationships, marriages, babies and such lame stuff, he's cool and relaxed, so I'll meet him, we'll have some fun").
And then, maybe there will be sex or a short relationship, or simply nothing. To have a failed date at home, it's OK, but to fly 1000's of miles to some Muhosransk in the mid of Siberia and have a failed date or just a one-night stand, that's completely unreasonable.
To prevent that, now I'm trying to make myself clear that I'm looking for a serious person. I'm not saying it in a way that will scare them or make me look "needy". I have some subtle ways, I'm not writing that literaly as I described above. I choose my words. I'm not saying "let me see you on skype, cause i want to marry you" nor I'm totaly relaxed like "you're cool, perhaps we can skype sometimes". I say it clearly "i'd like to know you better" which means "ok, we typed and typed, this seems promising, let's take it on a higher level". If she has brains she'll get it and will not ask a stupid question such as "why?". What "why"? It's a dating site where people are supposed to DATE, that's why, you little.... Sometimes I have an urge to send them to "huy" but I'm a gentleman... for now.
You mentioned the word "friendships". I'm allergic to the word "friendship" coming from a woman that I like. I have great female friends, lovely young women, who are of course, taken, happily married with children, but I wouldn't travel 1000's of miles just to find one more FRIEND. No mentioning of any "friendship", that's my rule. Before we are a couple with a girl I'm going to meet, we are not friends, we are nothing. In my experience, once I became a friend to a woman, the possibility of something more ended. To have a female friend is great, but the worst form I call it "gay friend" (see: "Will & Grace" TV show). I don't want such role for myself. Unfortunatelly, many women (FSU women are not an exception) look for such "gay friend", a shoulder to cry "my boyfriend is an asshole, he mistreats me, he rapes me, but i love him" and the gay friend is coressing her like "i see, my female friend, i understand you" and he never makes a sexual advancement toward her.
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Then the solution is clear: look for Belarusian girls
belarussian, russian, it's the same.
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longinforthesouth,
I agree with the majority of things you say,and i think you'd be better off concentrating on women in Macedonia,i really do.
I would think there are many attractive women in your country and, unlike the UK,where it has now been confirmed we have the most obese women in Europe (24% of our women are clinically overweight,and that was three years ago,it's probably an even higher percentage now ),you don't have to date women that weigh more than you do. :scared0005:
I'm sure you can meet attractive women to date locally in the real world,without having to mess around trying to form a relationship with a girl on the internet,who lives in another country,and who is probably communicating with at least another 100 foreign and local guys at the same time as you. (:)
By the way,we also have the second fattest men in Europe (22%),only the Maltese men being fatter than ours,and we're an increasing nation of lardasses,but i'm not one of them,hence my search for a woman abroad.
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Mr. South - The more I read your posts, I'm puzzled that you struggle finding girls here in Russia. You express yourself well, you seem to take criticism well and your approach makes sense to me. Would you mind sharing links to the type of girls you chase? In private would be cool.
I'm also wondering if some Russians have a negative attitude towards Macedonians like many do about Georgians, Armenians, Turks, Ukrainians and other nearby peoples. I really don't know. Do you think this is part of the problem?
What difficulties do you have dating back home that made you want to look to other countries in the first place?
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Then the solution is clear: look for Belarusian girls
belarussian, russian, it's the same.
I would rather suggest him to consider playing for the other team. :travel:
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Mr. South - The more I read your posts, I'm puzzled that you struggle finding girls here in Russia. ...
I'm also wondering if some Russians have a negative attitude towards Macedonians...
What difficulties do you have dating back home that made you want to look to other countries in the first place?
My question is as follows: what exactly does Macedonia have to offer that Russia doesn't? Better economy? No. Macedonia economy is weaker than Russia's. Better weather? Looking at the 10 day prognosis, I see that Macedonia is comparable to Sochi and southern Russia. Again, nothing that would be a strong incitement for a woman to move to Macedonia. Sure, a rich Macedonian or a very attractive Macedonian will have better luck, but such a man would also have no problem I wage finding a young attractive woman in Macedonia :biggrin:
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longinforthesouth,
I agree with the majority of things you say,and i think you'd be better off concentrating on women in Macedonia,i really do.
I would think there are many attractive women in your country and, unlike the UK,where it has now been confirmed we have the most obese women in Europe (24% of our women are clinically overweight,and that was three years ago,it's probably an even higher percentage now ),you don't have to date women that weigh more than you do. :scared0005:
I'm sure you can meet attractive women to date locally in the real world,without having to mess around trying to form a relationship with a girl on the internet,who lives in another country,and who is probably communicating with at least another 100 foreign and local guys at the same time as you. (:)
By the way,we also have the second fattest men in Europe (22%),only the Maltese men being fatter than ours,but i'm not one of them,hence my search for a woman abroad.
there're good looking women here, i go out, meet them in bars, sometimes there's some sex. the best ones are already taken or just want to have fun. we've many single men, competition is big. attractive girls receive too much attention and can be quite arrogant. There are some nice girls who are dying for me, but in the fsu i hoped to trade for better. and it worked sometimes, i had such attractive and interesting fsu women, which here i could never have. once i tasted that drug, it's hard now to go back.
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there're good looking women here, i go out, meet them in bars, sometimes there's some sex. the best ones are already taken or just want to have fun. we've many single men, competition is big. attractive girls receive too much attention and can be quite arrogant. There are some nice girls who are dying for me, but in the fsu i hoped to trade for better. and it worked sometimes, i had such attractive and interesting fsu women, which here i could never have. once i tasted that drug, it's hard now to go back.
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Mr. South - The more I read your posts, I'm puzzled that you struggle finding girls here in Russia. ...
I'm also wondering if some Russians have a negative attitude towards Macedonians...
What difficulties do you have dating back home that made you want to look to other countries in the first place?
My question is as follows: what exactly does Macedonia have to offer that Russia doesn't? Better economy? No. Macedonia economy is weaker than Russia's. Better weather? Looking at the 10 day prognosis, I see that Macedonia is comparable to Sochi and southern Russia. Again, nothing that would be a strong incitement for a woman to move to Macedonia. Sure, a rich Macedonian or a very attractive Macedonian will have better luck, but such a man would also have no problem I wage finding a young attractive woman in Macedonia :biggrin:
Maybe your answer to your problem is to come and live and work here. Ever think of that? You then can chat to lots of girls who actually live here. As i understood you speak fluent Russian so that's a huge advantage !! Just a thought :biggrin:
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My question is as follows: what exactly does Macedonia have to offer that Russia doesn't? Better economy? No. Macedonia economy is weaker than Russia's. Better weather? Looking at the 10 day prognosis, I see that Macedonia is comparable to Sochi and southern Russia. Again, nothing that would be a strong incitement for a woman to move to Macedonia. Sure, a rich Macedonian or a very attractive Macedonian will have better luck, but such a man would also have no problem I wage finding a young attractive woman in Macedonia :biggrin:
Better economy is not the most important factor that draws FSUW to foreign men. I think the economy and the standard of life in Turkey and Egypt are worse than in FSU, nevertheless the numbers of marriages between our women and men from these countries is VERY high.
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Mr. South - The more I read your posts, I'm puzzled that you struggle finding girls here in Russia. You express yourself well, you seem to take criticism well and your approach makes sense to me. Would you mind sharing links to the type of girls you chase? In private would be cool.
I'm also wondering if some Russians have a negative attitude towards Macedonians like many do about Georgians, Armenians, Turks, Ukrainians and other nearby peoples. I really don't know. Do you think this is part of the problem?
What difficulties do you have dating back home that made you want to look to other countries in the first place?
I'll consider about links. I'm not struggling to find women in the FSU. It's impossible NOT to get a date in the fsu, there're some girls in my contact list. But I want the best possible catch, not just any. I'm not satisfied with what I can have at home.
Russians and Ukrainians like us, though not all of them know much about us. There are some common things: alphabet, similarities in the language, orthodox religion etc. The cyrillic was born in the Balkans. Some of our intellectuals studied in Imperial Russia, e.g. Krste Petkov Misirkov and the author of the poem "Longing for the South" (http://www.struga.org/eng/konstantinmiladinov.htm), Miladinov. He was freezing there in the 19th c., so he wrote it.
Although we are candidates for EU and NATO, we don't have issues with RU, our relations are great. With UA, too. I know the ua consul, we have a drink sometimes. There are visa-liberalization agreements also.
Note that we were not in the soviet sphere of influence (we were non-aligned), russians were no masters here, so I've never been treated by them like, let's say, an uzbek illegal emigrant in Moscow (i'm not racist! but you know some russians have such prejudices). When we macedonians talk about RU, we don't look at her with fear, from a low point-of-view of former subjects, but we say "russians are those guys whom our St. Clement of Ohrid taught to read and write" ;)
So, there is nothing special against macedonians from russian side and vice-versa. Only, some macedonians stereotype that "UA women are easy", but after they join dating sites they see it isn't so :) When I traveled in RU and UA, people were feeding me, inviting me home, helping me and treating me with respect. There're people with hearts of gold there. I had succeses with their women, not that i never had! I only hate their bureaucracy and the impolitness in some institutions or shops, but that's a problem which every foreigner faces. And sometimes I find russians too stiff, we're more laid back and funny, but when the ice-breaks, the communication is great.
There are some russian brides here and those marriages are succesful. There're not many divorces or dv or something as in the US. Note that not all of them are online brides. Young people meet on vacations in Montenegro or Turkey for example. Some mature ladies married macedonians who were building in Russia, e.g. Sochi during the soviet times (our construction companies built everywhere, west, east, the arab world). Coming from a liberal communist country (ex- Yugoslavia), these construction guys had a better standard of living than the russians and had access to western fashion and music, so fsu girls liked them. They were bringing deficitary goods such as jeans, coffee, pantyhose for them and had lots of women. Some made good business.
But those were different times. Soviet women were more romantic, they had different values, they were struggling to catch a man with a big competition, they believed in love, family, they appreciated little things more ect.
No one is impressed by a pair of jeans in Russia now. Or a burned audio CD-R like I once sent to my ex. Women have become more and more demanding: cars, phones, exotic vacations, this-that, dengi, dengi, more, more. Or much worse, some don't want anything and are just apathetic. Love is "lame" and "uncool" now. Many young girls are spoiled by the attention they get and behave bitchy, it's a global problem trend , in the US, in Russia, in Macedonia, everywhere! It's not something specific ONLY for russian girls.
So my nationality is not a problem for russians. We are good men, we can offer a lot to their women. Laid back lifestyle, beautiful nature, tasty food, small distances (from one city to another 2 hours by car not 3 days by train) and if they really want to see the West, macedonian citizens don't need schengen visas. However, if some woman wants to marry a rich country and not a person, then she can marry a greencard provider somehwhere else and then file a dv charge against him. It's true that we cannot attract such women.
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I wonder who are the worst between russians and ukrainians. Difficult to say... Both have their specific characteristics but the same trends i described here. regardless the (very) rare exceptions, ukrainian women are more empty and vicious mind and russian more selfish and arrogant but equally superficial. materialism is more ukrainian while vanity and egoism is more russian. coldness and carelesness are equal too.
Then the solution is clear: look for Belarusian girls
belarussian, russian, it's the same.
My experience can't vouch for entire nations, but I noticed a big difference in the traits of girls from Ukraine and those from Belarus, at least from the one's I met.
The girls I met in Ukraine were lovely and I had an amazing time with them. In fact, I fell in love with one girl and due to unfortunate circumstances it never worked out. However, they were very materialistic and expected men in a relationship with them, to spend money on them. It was all about status and personal possessions.....I got the impression money could buy love with these girls.
In Belarus, the girls I met were lovely and good fun also. However, they were not interested in how much I earned, what kind of phone I had or what kind of car I drove. I'm in a relationship with this girl now and she isn't interested in spending my money, and tells me how she is looking for love and happiness.
It's hardly scientific results but from personal experience, I noticed a difference.
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Better economy is not the most important factor that draws FSUW to foreign men. I think the economy and the standard of life in Turkey and Egypt are worse than in FSU, nevertheless the numbers of marriages between our women and men from these countries is VERY high.
How many very attractive 20-year-old women marry men from Turkey? I would wager they are far fewer in number than the women that are older and not so attractive. Likewise, the men the attractive women marry are also likely to be very attractive and with much much more charisma (i.e. men not whining that they no women want them :-X ). Such is life tiphat
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Men take online dating much more seriously. They are willing to travel to unknown countries, spend lots of time and money and go through various troubles to find love, while many women just don't care, it's all game for them.
Very true, this is the main problem. Unilateral process.
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Better economy is not the most important factor that draws FSUW to foreign men. I think the economy and the standard of life in Turkey and Egypt are worse than in FSU, nevertheless the numbers of marriages between our women and men from these countries is VERY high.
How many very attractive 20-year-old women marry men from Turkey? I would wager they are far fewer in number than the women that are older and not so attractive. Likewise, the men the attractive women marry are also likely to be very attractive and with much much more charisma (i.e. men not whining that they no women want them :-X ). Such is life tiphat
I will make a couple of comments here. First the standard of living on the Turkish riviera is very much higher than the standard of living in FSU. The middle classes here live in the first world. OK I am not talking about standards of living in the central country or up on the Syria, Iraq and Iran borders.
The Russians have become the largest tourist group on the Turkish Riviera. No visa problems here. Lots and lots of young single FSU women go wild holiday here. Of course the attractive ones are chased by the local boys, mostly for fun but sometimes these holiday romances lead to marriage. In general FSU women don't make marriage decisions based entirely on love - social and economic considerations are important too. There is a large community of FSU women married to Turkish men in the Alanya area. Hundreds of them! There are very few newcomers over 40 and the majority are lookers. Of course a proportion of these women have married workers and enjoy an economic standard of living little different to home. A much larger group have traded up and married business people and live a life of luxury and leisure they could rarely hope for at home. Nearly all complain that Turkish men are worse chauvinists than Russians but they rarely leave unless the guy acts like an S.O.B.
Contrary to Urban legend I reckon more FSU women marry Turks than marry Americans. I don't have the statistics to prove this assertion but there are LOTS of women married to Turks here. They have set up Russian Schools, Cultural Centers and they are becoming large scale investors in the tourist industry.
Problem with this thread is that it's contributors have little experience of relationships with FSU women. Some of the comments here are just plain stupid. I won't repeat them to my wife - she would just dismiss you all as ugly americans...
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My experience can't vouch for entire nations, but I noticed a big difference in the traits of girls from Ukraine and those from Belarus, at least from the one's I met.
The girls I met in Ukraine were lovely and I had an amazing time with them. In fact, I fell in love with one girl and due to unfortunate circumstances it never worked out. However, they were very materialistic and expected men in a relationship with them, to spend money on them. It was all about status and personal possessions.....I got the impression money could buy love with these girls.
In Belarus, the girls I met were lovely and good fun also. However, they were not interested in how much I earned, what kind of phone I had or what kind of car I drove. I'm in a relationship with this girl now and she isn't interested in spending my money, and tells me how she is looking for love and happiness.
It's hardly scientific results but from personal experience, I noticed a difference.
From personal experience with UA women, this is not an experience I can relate to. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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My experience can't vouch for entire nations, but I noticed a big difference in the traits of girls from Ukraine and those from Belarus, at least from the one's I met.
The girls I met in Ukraine were lovely and I had an amazing time with them. In fact, I fell in love with one girl and due to unfortunate circumstances it never worked out. However, they were very materialistic and expected men in a relationship with them, to spend money on them. It was all about status and personal possessions.....I got the impression money could buy love with these girls.
In Belarus, the girls I met were lovely and good fun also. However, they were not interested in how much I earned, what kind of phone I had or what kind of car I drove. I'm in a relationship with this girl now and she isn't interested in spending my money, and tells me how she is looking for love and happiness.
It's hardly scientific results but from personal experience, I noticed a difference.
From personal experience with UA women, this is not an experience I can relate to. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Fair point DS. My comments were purely based on the girls I personally met, and I made my statements from that. Clearly not all women from UA and Belarus are how I found these girls to be, but there were clear distinctions between the two in my case.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I had a great time in UA and have no axe to grind. The people were nice and the girls I met were fantastic, but in the network of people I socialised with over a year, the points I made above were obvious.
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I'm with you on this Rosco.
From my personal experience of young women in Ukraine,it's very much "Show me the money" .It's all about status and money with them.
Nice girls,but sheesh,money and material things are always on their mind.
I should add that these were agency girls.
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I'm with you on this Rosco.
From my personal experience of young women in Ukraine,it's very much "Show me the money" .It's all about status and money with them.
Nice girls,but sheesh,money and material things are always on their mind.
Mixing with the wrong girls, maybe?
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From my personal experience of young women
I should add that these were agency girls.
You say young women, what age group are we looking at here?
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I'm with you on this Rosco.
From my personal experience of young women in Ukraine,it's very much "Show me the money" .It's all about status and money with them.
Nice girls,but sheesh,money and material things are always on their mind.
Mixing with the wrong girls, maybe?
Yes and what's the betting they are under 30.
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Yes,they were in their twenties,so well spotted Chris :thumbsup:
I do believe this is the age group that longinforthesouth and others on this thread are complaining about.
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Yes,they were in their twenties,so well spotted Chris :thumbsup:
I do believe this is the age group that longinforthesouth and others on this thread are complaining about.
In general that's the age group where many of the problems arise.
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From my personal experience of young women in Ukraine,it's very much "Show me the money" .It's all about status and money with them.
Nice girls,but sheesh,money and material things are always on their mind.
I agree but I don't think we should consider that this is in Ukrainian blood or mentality as it's sometimes portrayed. I think if there were hoards of wealthy but dumb foreign men coming to 'our' countries in search of female company we might well see our own young ladies acting in a similar manner.
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Better economy is not the most important factor that draws FSUW to foreign men. I think the economy and the standard of life in Turkey and Egypt are worse than in FSU, nevertheless the numbers of marriages between our women and men from these countries is VERY high.
How many very attractive 20-year-old women marry men from Turkey? I would wager they are far fewer in number than the women that are older and not so attractive.
The ones I saw were all young and attractive. Why would Turkish marry the old and ugly ones, lol? :laugh:
Contrary to Urban legend I reckon more FSU women marry Turks than marry Americans. I don't have the statistics to prove this assertion but there are LOTS of women married to Turks here. They have set up Russian Schools, Cultural Centers and they are becoming large scale investors in the tourist industry.
About 3 years ago they wrote: "Approximately 10,800 Russian women who live in the Turkish Mediterranean city of Antalya are married to Turkish men".
http://russianwomentruth.com/a-new-generation-of-russian-women-in-turkey/
Somewhere else I read it was hundreds of thousands countrywide. I'm sure this number has increased significantly since.
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There are very few newcomers over 40 and the majority are lookers. Of course a proportion of these women have married workers and enjoy an economic standard of living little different to home. A much larger group have traded up and married business people and live a life of luxury and leisure they could rarely hope for at home.
Contrary to Urban legend I reckon more FSU women marry Turks than marry Americans.
Did I say that they do not marry Turkish men? No, I said that the very attractive women would marry men who were A) very attractive or B) offered a better financial status than at home. In other words, I expect that very attractive twenty year old women who marry in Turkey will inevitably choose the type of Turkish man that I wager could very easily marry a very attractive Turkish woman. Besides, in terms of per capita GNP, Turkey is comparable to Russia, while Macedonia is much lower :-X
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"Approximately 10,800 Russian women who live in the Turkish Mediterranean city of Antalya are married to Turkish men".
Given that over 2 million Russian visit Turkey every year from the last stats that I saw a while back and at least half of these visitors are women, 10,800 Russian women married to Turkish men is not that large of number, likely 0.1% or less of all Russian women who visited Turkey in the last decade :biggrin: If even average looking Turkish men who whined about not being able to marry attractive women at home could easily date very attractive young women from the FSU, women well out of their proverbial league, then I would have expected hundreds of thousands of such marriages to have occurred tiphat
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Maybe your answer to your problem is to come and live and work here. Ever think of that? You then can chat to lots of girls who actually live here. As i understood you speak fluent Russian so that's a huge advantage !! Just a thought :biggrin:
The thing is, I do not have a problem as I am happily married :-X
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there're good looking women here, i go out, meet them in bars, sometimes there's some sex. the best ones are already taken or just want to have fun. we've many single men, competition is big. attractive girls receive too much attention and can be quite arrogant. There are some nice girls who are dying for me, but in the fsu i hoped to trade for better. and it worked sometimes, i had such attractive and interesting fsu women, which here i could never have. once i tasted that drug, it's hard now to go back.
In other words, you want to date a woman that is far out of your league. That is understandable. However, if you hoped to trade for better, what is it exactly that you have to offer in return? Looks? Money? Charisma? What is it exactly that you are bringing to the trade? Clearly, in the local competition you are being passed over, so why do you think that things would be different in Russia? You can date nice girls in Macedonia, and you keep saying that you can date such women in Russia as well, the main problem is that you thought could easily date in Russia the type of women you could not date at home, and this is IMHO not realistic.
Also, you seem to be obsessed with the woman you dated and that you yourself rejected. You had your chance, and you blew it. You thought, I am certain that you could do better and now understand that you can't. I expect that this is the source of your frustration. Rather than accepting that you made a big mistake and that you may not be able to easily date the kind of woman that you had, it seems to me that you are now intent on having a pity party trying to blame everybody but yourself :biggrin:
At the end of the day, you will have to reconcile yourself to the fact that you may never date such a woman ever again and that you will have to be much more realistic in your expectations and look to date the women who want to date you: the "nice girls" you mention in Macedonia who want to date you or similar women elsewhere.
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To Mr. South - Thanks for the info on Macedonia. It's interesting, really. Well, if you consider showing me some links of the type of girls you go for, send me a "PM". I think it all boils down to you being very picky. After losing a great girl you don't want to settle for anything less. I don't blame you! I think Mr. Rasputin makes a good point, what do you have to offer? More important though is how you present what you have to offer to the right girl and catch her attention.
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This thread has turned to a "psycho-sociological analysis" of me and not the fsu women, as it was intended. I'm to be blamed, I write too much, exposing myself for various (dis)honest (mis)interpretations. I tried to answer almost all of you (except raspy, of course, who's was flaming several times, is he a dating business owner, btw?).
Konfushus, what i have to offer? I posses certain qualities, also i can offer a comfortable life, but what's the use of that, if most of women don't even bother to check profiles, let alone develop a decent communication and get to know you better. (p.s. since when russians are considered so rich? it's true that emerged a middle class, the salaries in moscow and piter are good ect... but not everyone lives ithere and most of russians still live in obschezhitia, since when they became so "rich"and so demanding and picky? Do I have to offer my own island and a yacht maybe?)
I'm not perfect. I wouldn't be here if I was. Perfect people don't sit with Raspy on forums. But I'm not that bad. And if all of you guys were perfect and great womenizers, you could find a partner in your own country, why travelling to Muhosransk just to find a chick? But I know the answer ("I could easily get a chick in my own country, everybody loved me there, but it just happened that i lived in Russia").
I started FSU dating, cause it was advertised for those who were unsuccesful or were not satisfied with their local choice. "try there, plenty of hot women interested in foreigners, just sign for our site" etc. If I knew that the fsu dating is so demanding and that you must be a Superman , I'd never bother.
I will summarize some things that i said and I think I will take rest from this forum (hopefully for a long time).
- There are too many not serious women on the dating sites. It's a fact. If even russian men, who can date more easily, are complaining, then something's really wrong. I can post examples sometimes. It's a global trend of bitchiness.
- What I like about FSU is that the right to date is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean it's simple and always frutiful. I had some attractive women, even blondes with huge boobs, whom I could never have here. It's possible to catch something better than at home, but it's not simple, as the dating industry misrepresents. It takes too much effort, while people were mislead that it'd be easy. Attractive girls are spoiled with attention and just want fun. Their "traditionalism" and "family values" have been exagerated, some are such, many are not. And the "gender disbalance", too. A hot young chick can always find a local.
- There's no point to travel far away to get what you can have at home. And I don't mean fat women with moustaches (sometimes I joke like this, don't take it litteraly). I can have decent looking girls both at home and the fsu. Not the top ones, but decent. However, I want the best-possible. I don't know what's the optimum I can achieve. After having incredible fsu beauties, it's hard to go down.
- In my recent search, from milions of timewasters (which included fsu women of various ages, some more, some less attractive), I was able to find just few serious ones. They are decently preetty and clever, with some I think i can have a succes, but I don't think they are worth the trouble. I don't think they are the maximum I can achieve. I like them only to a certain level. If they were local, I'd give them a chance for sure! But to travel to some Muhosransk to meet them, no, they are not the dream I was looking for.
- Dont ever forget the factor of "luck". You can write perfect letters, know languages, look and dress reasonably well and have finances, but you can be still unsucessful.
On the other hand, I know some people who are: not attractive, sexy, rich, charismatic, intelligent, athletic, they don't have nice clothes or an expensive car, but they have reasonably attractive girfriends or wifes. So you wonder "what the f... she found in him"? I don't know but it's revolting. I'd even post photos, but it wouldn't be right. So luck is an important factor, some people are more lucky, some are less.
A problem for finding a right partner can also be that some people are just too clever, they can't be understood by mediocres, who are the majority.
Cheers to all.
P.S. Konfushus, i'll think about the links, i dunno, it's private, i'll see
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You could be right about the global trend of bitchiness on dating sites. Something about the internet tends to bring out the worst in people. Those same chicks that you find bitchy might be very nice in reality with the right guy. I've seen that.
About what you have to offer, I didn't mean material things, but qualities that attract women. It sounds like you want a one in a million girl, so you need to be her one in a million guy (and I don't mean you need to handsome or rich - the right attitude is most important). She's not easy to find anywhere, so you have to continue to put in the effort. Even though you seem frustrated now, I'd say double and expand your efforts. Build networks on sites like vkontakte, mirtesen, facebook. Luck is being in the right place at the right time. The more opportunities you create, the more likely you'll find that luck.
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Longing, you are showing your ignorance of Russia when you write that most Russians live in obschezhitia as most Russians live in apartments that they own. Also, how do you define a comfortable life? Most Russians would also say they too have a comfortable life. Visiting my Russian in-laws this week, I went to help my sister-in-law pick out an HD 3D TV she bought. She works, travels, buys what she wants, and would say that she has a good life. You are mistaken if you think women should be throwing themselves at your feet. All women have to be wooed and notably the most attractive women you seek. Clearly, you are dating attractive women, but they are never good enough for you...
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I started FSU dating, cause it was advertised for those who were unsuccesful or were not satisfied with their local choice. "try there, plenty of hot women interested in foreigners, just sign for our site" etc. If I knew that the fsu dating is so demanding and that you must be a Superman , I'd never bother.
In other words, you bought the hype from some of the less reputable companies hook, line and sinker...
- What I like about FSU is that the right to date is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean it's simple and always frutiful. I had some attractive women, even blondes with huge boobs, whom I could never have here. It's possible to catch something better than at home, but it's not simple, as the dating industry misrepresents. It takes too much effort, while people were mislead that it'd be easy.
So, let me see if I understand this correctly. You can date more attractive women in Russia, but your main beef is that you are expected to put in time and effort to actually win the heart of the very most attractive women, the women that will be pursued by all Russian men, and pretty much all other men on this planet :coffeeread: You want to be able to send a message to the top of the top women and expect them to send you reams of messages likely begging for you to go visit them. In exchange you can offer them a comfortable life in Macedonia, even though these are the women that will certainly gain the fancy of oligarchs and sugar daddies the world over. Accuse me of flaming if you will, but I will say that you are living in quite the fantasy world :biggrin:
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This thread has turned to a "psycho-sociological analysis" of me and not the fsu women, as it was intended. I'm to be blamed, I write too much, exposing myself for various (dis)honest (mis)interpretations. I tried to answer almost all of you (except raspy, of course, who's was flaming several times, is he a dating business owner, btw?).
Konfushus, what i have to offer? I posses certain qualities, also i can offer a comfortable life, but what's the use of that, if most of women don't even bother to check profiles, let alone develop a decent communication and get to know you better. (p.s. since when russians are considered so rich? it's true that emerged a middle class, the salaries in moscow and piter are good ect... but not everyone lives ithere and most of russians still live in obschezhitia, since when they became so "rich"and so demanding and picky? Do I have to offer my own island and a yacht maybe?)
I'm not perfect. I wouldn't be here if I was. Perfect people don't sit with Raspy on forums. But I'm not that bad. And if all of you guys were perfect and great womenizers, you could find a partner in your own country, why travelling to Muhosransk just to find a chick? But I know the answer ("I could easily get a chick in my own country, everybody loved me there, but it just happened that i lived in Russia").
I started FSU dating, cause it was advertised for those who were unsuccesful or were not satisfied with their local choice. "try there, plenty of hot women interested in foreigners, just sign for our site" etc. If I knew that the fsu dating is so demanding and that you must be a Superman , I'd never bother.
I will summarize some things that i said and I think I will take rest from this forum (hopefully for a long time).
- There are too many not serious women on the dating sites. It's a fact. If even russian men, who can date more easily, are complaining, then something's really wrong. I can post examples sometimes. It's a global trend of bitchiness.
- What I like about FSU is that the right to date is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean it's simple and always frutiful. I had some attractive women, even blondes with huge boobs, whom I could never have here. It's possible to catch something better than at home, but it's not simple, as the dating industry misrepresents. It takes too much effort, while people were mislead that it'd be easy. Attractive girls are spoiled with attention and just want fun. Their "traditionalism" and "family values" have been exagerated, some are such, many are not. And the "gender disbalance", too. A hot young chick can always find a local.
- There's no point to travel far away to get what you can have at home. And I don't mean fat women with moustaches (sometimes I joke like this, don't take it litteraly). I can have decent looking girls both at home and the fsu. Not the top ones, but decent. However, I want the best-possible. I don't know what's the optimum I can achieve. After having incredible fsu beauties, it's hard to go down.
- In my recent search, from milions of timewasters (which included fsu women of various ages, some more, some less attractive), I was able to find just few serious ones. They are decently preetty and clever, with some I think i can have a succes, but I don't think they are worth the trouble. I don't think they are the maximum I can achieve. I like them only to a certain level. If they were local, I'd give them a chance for sure! But to travel to some Muhosransk to meet them, no, they are not the dream I was looking for.
- Dont ever forget the factor of "luck". You can write perfect letters, know languages, look and dress reasonably well and have finances, but you can be still unsucessful.
On the other hand, I know some people who are: not attractive, sexy, rich, charismatic, intelligent, athletic, they don't have nice clothes or an expensive car, but they have reasonably attractive girfriends or wifes. So you wonder "what the f... she found in him"? I don't know but it's revolting. I'd even post photos, but it wouldn't be right. So luck is an important factor, some people are more lucky, some are less.
A problem for finding a right partner can also be that some people are just too clever, they can't be understood by mediocres, who are the majority.
Cheers to all.
P.S. Konfushus, i'll think about the links, i dunno, it's private, i'll see
Longing,
I don't disagree with a lot in your post above, and would say it's very likely your disappointment is really down to only two issues:
a. choice of sites. I don't believe you have mentioned which site(s?) you are using, but a good or bad site can make a world of difference.
b. expectations. "easy" is a relative term. You've said yourself, you've met women that would be very unlikely at home, so indeed, it's been easier to date attractive women. Moving beyond that, you keep using the phrase "the best"... be careful here, you wouldn't be the first guy to pass over some expectational woman or women due to getting caught up in "maybe there's someone better?" Also, I do hope more than appearance is being considered in this quest for "the best," for your own sake.
I'd written at one point on my response rates in the FSU, but it's been 2+ years ago now so I can't give exact numbers, but your response rates should be at least double or higher vs local sites in general - that doesn't mean all are perfect angels or anything else silly, and it assumes at least someone reasonable expectations. if you're going for only the top 5% in physical attractiveness, adjust downwards. If you're on a lousy site, you might adjust upwards (more agency/pay per letter incentives), but quality will drop. If only corresponding with 19-25YOs, responses will drop when compared to late 20s or older.
I'm not sure exactly where you fall into the above, but thinking about those two or sharing details of each may be more productive than some of the other discussions.
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Long time I work in marriage agency in Ukraine (Crimea) and what you need to know
to you understand Ukrainian and russian woman.
They not like American woman. They always waiting from the man something.
until they are married, they want to have surprise every day,
when she will find some one she want to have all money wich he receive.
I know it is difficult to understand but maybe it is because not very
good economical situation.
Anyway, if Ukrainian woman (for example) would like to find man from
abroad, she will have excessive demands for him.
Because if she will decide to married, she need to leave her country,
learn new language, and many other things wich she need to do, so she
looking for the man who realy can give her more then man from ukraine.
I can tell you that I can spend 200 - 300 $ for the beautiful woman here you
can in one night, and not receive sex :) it is not such big money for take a woman.
If you buy her the rings, next step you need to buy the flowers every 2
-3 days, you need to buy clothes for her wich she ask.
Many abroad man who understand it come to Ukraine and make all this
things, and they happy about such spend time (sex tour)
I know this because I saw it many times. The woman would like to have
more and more and they ready pay for this (gave sex)
So if you would like to find a woman wich will be tender, honest and
would like only be with you, you can looking for her in USA, because
here you just spend time and your nerve. If you want to have young
and beautiful woman, who will be ready go with you to USA, you need to
show her how you can take care of her. so you need do all what she ask
(all small wishes) you must ask her every day what she want more. And
you need take care and be always near her.
If you are ready for this, you must to try and you will see that it is works.
any way if you would like to try I can help you with this and tell about all pitfalls
PS: sorry for mistakes
On some points I agree with you, but implying that most all of the ladies are materialistic I disagree with. Furthermore, I disagree that you will not find a woman which will be tender, honest and would like only to be with you in Ukraine.
Now, what I do agree with you on is that the majority of the ladies in the MOB agencies are not looking for serious relationships, playing the system and/or are pro-daters. I also agree that the ladies who do sincerely want to be with a foreign husband want security and to know that her possible mates can provide for them.
There is a different between security and materialism. Most ladies who are genuine and looking for a mate are not materialistic. You need to realize that the lady will be leaving her own country, friends, family, job, putting a child in a school in a different country possibly, ..., etc. and she just wants to be certain that her marriage will be good and that she will have a roof over her head. Many ladies are not fluent in English and personally, if I were in these ladies shoes, I would be very concerned about ending up divorced and having to fend for myself and possibly a child in a country where I don't even speak the language well.
Many of the ladies in Ukraine are beautiful, intelligent, highly educated, sincere and they work very hard. Two ladies in here come to mind whom I've communicated with, Mila and Irina. I'm not saying other ladies in here don't have these qualities rather I simply haven't communicated with any others. Why anyone would expect ladies with these qualities to fall all over some foriegn guy at first sight is beyond me. The ladies have expectations and rightfully so. Also, guys have to show dedication and they will have to put some effort into developing a relationship.
This is my opinion only. Of course, everyone is free to agree or disagree. :biggrin:
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Longing, You've been told already wealth and looks is not what attract the so called quality women. Do you believe this is what makes people happy? Money disappears, beauty fades and what is left then?
You are wondering about non-attractive guys with beautiful girls, the first word that comes into my mind is charisma, it may attract women to them, of course it's not all.
It's that simple. Most women don't marry a painting or a sculpture, they don't marry a yacht or a palace, they marry the man to grow old with and at the end if he is not responsible, reliable, smart, witty ect., if there is nothing to talk about with him, who cares how much money he has or what he looks like!
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I'm with you on this Rosco.
From my personal experience of young women in Ukraine,it's very much "Show me the money" .It's all about status and money with them.
Nice girls,but sheesh,money and material things are always on their mind.
Mixing with the wrong girls, maybe?
Yes and what's the betting they are under 30.
And same here, the girls were all 20 something but not agency. Again its wrong to make bold assumptions but the spoilt princess mentality appears to be more common in girls of this age in UA. There will be a few comments of I told you so or wrong type of girls, but many guys my age are justifiably looking in this age bracket, and perhaps this will be the future attitude for UW daters in future years to tackle? Admittedly the girls would expect more from a western guy because they assumed we were all a little naive with bigger disposable incomes, but they expected this treatment from their Ukrainian boyfriends also. It was an interesting conversation to have with these girls and there was no doubt about it in their minds, that this was normal!
Perhaps a little off topic now, so apologies but I think its a valid point?
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I had some attractive women, even blondes with huge boobs, whom I could never have here.
I can't help but get the impression that you chose this particular example because you consider blondes with huge boobs to be the ultimate prize and anything else to be... well... less. This attitude is going to limit your prospects considerably, even amongst blondes with huge boobs.
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Здраствуйте Моли (простите, пожалуйста, что я не знаю ваше настоящее имя и отчество, чтобы правильно обращался к вам)
I said I'll take a rest from the forum (it's addictive!), but I can't ignore the lady.
You're right Molly. But I guess you're raised in different times on values such as: solidarity, friendship, love, family, which are now replaced with egoism, materialism etc. Judging by the mother, I believe that your 23yo daughter had good upbringing and that she's immune to that, but others are not.
That's why I mentioned yachts as an irony, like "У меня должна быть яхта, чтобы меня любили?". I'm not a materialist, though I live well.
I also mentioned "общежития". I know the RU economy is booming, a mid-class is emerging. I was a guest to russians from every class, from steelworkers in Cherepovets or Donbass coalminers to businesmen in guarded elite areas in Podmoskovye.
So I know there're russians who can't enjoy the economic boom. It's tragicomical that some compare the economy of RU and my country saying "you can't afford a RU girl, she'll have a drop in living standard". Statistics are one thing, real life is another. I live like Elvis in Graceland comparing to many russians. But I'm not materialist, I repeat.
BTW, Molly, if the guys, whom I mentioned are 'charismatic', then I'm... dunno... James Bond:) I'd even post photos of them, so you can judge for yourself, but I don't know if that'd be nice.
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Hello from Cherepovets :party0031:. Меня зовут Татьяна, если вам так легче общаться, и никто, слава богу, в неформальной обстановке меня по отчеству пока не называет tiphat.
I even start feeling sympathy towards you.
Ok, maybe my generation was raised in different times but it doesn't guarantee that any person of my age share the same values.
Generalizations... Humans are different. The same is true for any gender, any generation and any country. There are good people and there are bad people, people with better values or without them. Ask yourself what you are looking for first and foremost. Sorry if I didn't read your posts thoroughly but based on them it looks like you don't even consider inner world of the girls. Do you need a beautiful doll or a good wife and companion?
Sounds naive? Maybe, but this is what life taught me :)
By the way, wonder if men trying to get their gorgeous girl for many years and hopping from one girl to another can ever stop. There will always be someone better looking ;D so the quest seems endless.
As for those guys..lol..I don't know...They may be not good looking, charisma is not about looks, it's something deeper. There are many people who attract us no matter what they look like. The best men I was ever attracted to couldn't be called handsome but there's something special about them that draw my attention. :biggrin:
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Maybe your answer to your problem is to come and live and work here. Ever think of that? You then can chat to lots of girls who actually live here. As i understood you speak fluent Russian so that's a huge advantage !! Just a thought :biggrin:
The thing is, I do not have a problem as I am happily married :-X
You've misunderstood me Rasputin. That advice was for Longing. If he's addicted to Russian women, why not come and live amoingst the. I'm well aware that you're happily married as 1. You've said so 2. It's written under your foto :laugh: :thumbsup:
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Maybe your answer to your problem is to come and live and work here. Ever think of that? You then can chat to lots of girls who actually live here. As i understood you speak fluent Russian so that's a huge advantage !! Just a thought :biggrin:
The thing is, I do not have a problem as I am happily married :-X
You've misunderstood me Rasputin. That advice was for Longing. If he's addicted to Russian women, why not come and live amoingst the. I'm well aware that you're happily married as 1. You've said so 2. It's written under your foto :laugh: :thumbsup:
Now, I understand. You are right, he would be better to spend an extended amount of time in Russia.
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most all of the ladies are materialistic I disagree with.
agree, they are superficial, arrogant, selfish and empty too.
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most all of the ladies are materialistic I disagree with.
agree, they are superficial, arrogant, selfish and empty too.
This coming from the men who are solely interested in the physical :ROFL:
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Очень приятно познакомится, Татьяна! :) So, you are from Cherepovets, Vologodskaya oblast, wow that's great! What a coincidence, I mentioned it in my post :) I've been there, I remember you have a famous company "Северсталь" ("Northern Steel"), I remember the river Sheksna (and the train with the same name to/from Moscow) and I'm still listening to the song "Мы родом из Череповца" by the group "Сборная Союза" :) You have beautiful women and hospitable people there. Btw the famous macedonian metallurgy businessman Gushterov worked in Cherepovets in the 90's, he was also a sponsor of the Severstal hockey team or something.
No, I'm not just looking for a doll! First of all, the woman should posses heart and mind and be honest and reliable! I wrote a lot about my first russian gf in the previous posts, it was the greatest love of my life not just physical passion. It's not a secret that I had some adventures in my life, I'm just a man, but I'm single now and looking for a serious person. You noticed that I complained many times that there're not many serious girls on the dating sites.
However, I must like the girl's physical appearance. When we are browsing the dating sites, the first thing that we notice is ussually the face. It does not mean that she have to be a supermodel or something. It's very hard to explain what I mean by "like her". That's so subjective and relative, it can be the smile, the eyes, some minor detail, I don't know. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, they say.
However, that famous proverb doesn't apply in the case of those guys, whom we were talking about :) Perhaps Diana Gurtskaya would consider them beautiful. Just kidding :) Not that I'm something too special, but trust me, they don't have even a "c" from charisma. I know what you are talking about, charisma is not the physical beauty, it's something else, some "factor X". An energy coming from the person, like a hypnosis... But those guys are not that person :)
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most all of the ladies are materialistic I disagree with.
agree, they are superficial, arrogant, selfish and empty too.
This coming from the men who are solely interested in the physical :ROFL:
you are talking about someone else than me if so
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But the problem is: I have already tried a relaxed approach, which you suggest, with many fsu women. I have tried milions of different approaches: "Serious", "playful", "romantic", "bad motherf...er". It leads nowhere, they don't care.
The same, i've always been natural, careful, kind, enjoyable, seeking to know my interlocutor deeply, being curious, attentive, careful but then you realise it's as throwing a stone in a lake...
I agree with you mr south on the main problems:
- Inadequacy between Offer and Demand and unilateral process of seeking love. Men in their search are often serious contrary to the women, men are with good intentions and do their best to find the soul mate. they face a huge majority of fsu women who have not the same search, who are online at random, who don't care about the men whoever they are, who aren't online to find their second half but just to kill time, play, improve english or receiving attention to feed their vanity and high self-esteem and nothing else! you can do what you want you will never attract their attention including the rare times you find one supposed to seek love. thus the answer rate is often ridiculous... putting all your heart, soul, mind, time, emotional involvement, efforts to face then the sad reality.
- Reality is the women themselves, very far from the myth the dating industry want us to believe. Most of them are superficial, egocentric, egoist, stupid, uninteresting, empty, selfish, arrogant, players, unpolite, witout any good sense, cold, indifferent, careless, unable to provide emotions from their (stone) hearts. the more a girl is attractive the more it is true.. Not mentionning the materialistic ones... they just see what you can bring to them. And the few white bread is too much asked for a normal man have any chance with. Unreachable. They won't try to know you anyway. They think they should be deserved and even Superman (as you said) wouldn't interest them... I am too good for you man... these women the only persons they can love are themselves, and being with a man is just a way to love themselves more.
- No exchange, no possibility to develop deep discussion, to initiate an interest process, no reciprocity (always the man who should feed the discussion), womenare in passive position in dating sites, don't seek, just judge without knowing and barely reply when they reply, as if they shoud be deserved, you can be a man in gold with all qualities of the world they won't care anyway. It means the bad men, with bad intentions and poor content but more keen to do what they want or say what they want to hear have more chances especially if tasty enough for them. then these garbage girls will be surprised that men direspect them and are liers, unserious and bad because they don't want to interest them in good men.. they don't see nor care of them, i start to think they like nasty men who can treat them as they consider men generally.
- Profile's details, which are often very detailed are useless, no fsu women care about it. none will say "oh i've seen in your profile that your favourite hobby is .., can you tell me more about it..?"; "in your description i saw a similarity in our character, maybe we can explore this matter?", "you are sensible to arts, what is your favourite artist?", "i am interested in your wishes and views, can you precise...?" psychology tests and so on are loss of time too. NO all this is impossible to be asked about by a fsu woman who will ONLY care on the tiny pic on the front without never wondering "WHO is this man,can he be interesting, i will try to know his person more..." Inside aspects are obviously the most iportant aspeccts for a long term relationship but drowned intheir superficiality fsu women don't care about WHO you you are, nobody ofthem will dig the interlocutor they are talking about. I don't care of a doll if she is not interesting as a person, if she is boring, if she has nothing to say, nothing to share, if she is empty, without content, without any human quality, value, inner richness.... problem is almost all fsu women are so! they never read profiles and don't care about your person in itself. these women are just rotten.
- Many agencies are dishonest and place thousands of fake profiles (and allow scams) to make their Offer richer and attract clients while real girls are few or inexistent. And in this few is the huge majority of women i described...
- Ideologically scammed Dating Industry based on men emotional manipulation through fake myths. Naive men think on (scam) dating sites they can easily interest a woman thinking she would seek "decent and reliable man from abroad to found family, with traditional values, doing households and marry him". Truth is very far from it. An angel very often hides a devil...
these men even ignore these women are paid by the agencies to have their profiles online and collaborate with the dating sites for having chats with men, video cams, mails and calls but without seeking anyone for life partner... until he realises with empty pockets and lost illusions he has been manipulated by a perversed system. (i precise, it has not been my case, fortunately)
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But the problem is: I have already tried a relaxed approach, which you suggest, with many fsu women. I have tried milions of different approaches: "Serious", "playful", "romantic", "bad motherf...er". It leads nowhere, they don't care.
I don't know who wrote that but I have developed a radical approach to this. My approach is to be just me, and if someone doesn't like what they see then so be it.
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Upsylon, women don't care WHO you are when they are not into you. Find other means of meeting women who will be into you.
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To upsylon - Did you answer about what sites you used? I'd like to know. I can understand where Mr. South is coming from, but what you're talking about is really off the wall. Sounds like bride agency trash to me.
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To Mr. South - I know what you mean about these guys that boggle your mind. The thing is though, maybe they do have this x-factor in their chick's mind, you just can't see it. I remember thinking the same as you about dudes I knew who were scoring with decent girls back in my college days. I didn't get it. Looking back, I get it now. The main thing these guys had was an aloofness which made them seem confident (not so much confident, but clear that they don't need this girl) and a challenge. Do you see this in these guys you're talking about?
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The newbies here are going to have to come to grips with the reality that they are going to have to contact many FSU girls (sometimes hundreds) before they will find one who will give you the time of day. In the big picture, that's OK because you need time and experience to learn how to close the deal anyway. Truly, FSU woman who are not into you are typically even less considerate than their Western counterparts.
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The thing is though, maybe they do have this x-factor in their chick's mind, you just can't see it.
In four words: women don't do needy. If you come across as desperate, you are more likely to be rejected IMHO. I clued in to this in my final dating sprint before meeting my wife.
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The newbies here are going to have to come to grips with the reality that they are going to have to contact many FSU girls (sometimes hundreds) before they will find one who will give you the time of day. In the big picture, that's OK because you need time and experience to learn how to close the deal anyway. Truly, FSU woman who are not into you are typically even less considerate than their Western counterparts.
Well said Tom. If the youngsters think they can simply get off the plane, clear customs and there will be a line-up of the hottest women waiting for them, they are mistaken. It was not the case 5 years ago and it was not even true 15 years ago. Women still have to be pursued, but in a subtle fashion whereby you do not come across as needy or desperate and where they even pursue you :-X
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But the problem is: I have already tried a relaxed approach, which you suggest, with many fsu women. I have tried milions of different approaches: "Serious", "playful", "romantic", "bad motherf...er". It leads nowhere, they don't care.
I don't know who wrote that but I have developed a radical approach to this. My approach is to be just me, and if someone doesn't like what they see then so be it.
I'm taking the same radical approach, its working wonders :thumbsup:
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Well said Tom. If the youngsters think they can simply get off the plane, clear customs and there will be a line-up of the hottest women waiting for them, they are mistaken. It was not the case 5 years ago and it was not even true 15 years ago. Women still have to be pursued, but in a subtle fashion whereby you do not come across as needy or desperate and where they even pursue you :-X
Needy and desperate? With all due respect to our young lover, I get the impression that he is looking for a mindless serf. "I'm god's gift to women, how dare you reject me."
I believe I mentioned to him to do some self-assessment. Deaf ears.
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Well said Tom. If the youngsters think they can simply get off the plane, clear customs and there will be a line-up of the hottest women waiting for them, they are mistaken. It was not the case 5 years ago and it was not even true 15 years ago. Women still have to be pursued, but in a subtle fashion whereby you do not come across as needy or desperate and where they even pursue you :-X
Needy and desperate? With all due respect to our young lover, I get the impression that he is looking for a mindless serf. "I'm god's gift to women, how dare you reject me."
I believe I mentioned to him to do some self-assessment. Deaf ears.
Well, in my opinion this is quite common for newbies seeking relationships with FSU girls. Honestly, they need to be themselves and be aware of clues. For instance, if you meet someone and the two of you comfortably talk for hours and hours and always have something to talk about then this girl may very well be a good match. On the other hand, they need to be man enough to accept obvious rejection and not take it so personally.
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OMG Konfushus, what alofness, confidence, charisma, what factor X, what bloody challenge?! :) Who knows how you imagine those guys, have you seen them? Twice shorter than me, one looks like a flegmatic chimpansee, other has crossed eyes, a third looks like an Ewok from "Return of the Jedi" and is charismatic as Baldrick from "Black Adder". They have no style, no charisma, no intellect, no cash, no sex appeal, nothing.
OK, no one's perfect! I've some flaws like everyone. I know people who are not attractive or tall or wealthy or intellectual, but they compensate with other qualities (creative, communicative, brave, witty ect.)
But the guys, whom we are discussing, don't offer anything to deserve such women. If I was a woman I wouldn't even notice them, let alone marrying them or make babies with them! Ussualy, they meet through mutual friends, which makes things easier (they have no balls to go in a platzkart to some Muhosransk in the middle of Siberia) or at work. Women are more trustful and comfortable that way, than if approached by a stranger.
Why they picked such guys, is beyond my comprehension. Some choose mediocre guys cause inside they are such themselves and cause they consider them "safe" and predictable. Being unique is not always appreciated and understood! Mediocre people are like herd of sheeps, they look for another sheep, not for a lion. But these guys are even lower league than mediocres.
In school, me and my friend had a mutual sympathy for one girl in our class. I saw her recently with a guy. She's classy, intelligent, sexy (not sluty). She was shining like goddess, while he was invisible next to her, more like a railstation porter than an appropriate match for such woman!
I saw pics on her fb, she married him! She was gracious like a swan in her wedding dress, while he looked like some rodent or a small macaque, like an uninvited pest to the wedding. I sent them to my ex-school mate, who now lives in NYC. He's a succesful businessman, handsome, stylish, erudite, creative, practises martial arts... He was shocked, where the f... this world is going?!
Also, I know couples, where the guy is a too much higher league than the woman.
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I saw pics on her fb, she married him! She was gracious like a swan in her wedding dress, while he looked like some rodent or a small macaque, like an uninvited pest to the wedding. I sent them to my ex-school mate, who now lives in NYC. He's a succesful businessman, handsome, stylish, erudite, creative, practises martial arts... He was shocked, where the f... this world is going?!
Also, I know couples, where the guy is a too much higher league than the woman.
OMG!!! The world does not conform to your standards of perfection!
What a bummer, eh? (said with Canuckistani accent)
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Mr south, don't try to understand fsu women... it's loss of time and energy.
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Mr south, don't try to understand fsu women... it's loss of time and energy.
I would expand that to all women. I read some comments further up about some girls picking guys because their safe and predictable..... :laugh:
I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than that, but if your going to take a punt Mr South, I'd say in most cases and against their better judgement, girls are attracted to unpredictable and exciting!! Many may try and deny it but I can assure you it's very true :biggrin:
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Well said Tom. If the youngsters think they can simply get off the plane, clear customs and there will be a line-up of the hottest women waiting for them, they are mistaken. It was not the case 5 years ago and it was not even true 15 years ago. Women still have to be pursued, but in a subtle fashion whereby you do not come across as needy or desperate and where they even pursue you :-X
Needy and desperate? With all due respect to our young lover, I get the impression that he is looking for a mindless serf. "I'm god's gift to women, how dare you reject me."
IMHO, it is still a form of needy. I will only date women who will lift my fragile ego and prove to the world that I am the alpha male I believe that I deserve to be :-X
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Mr south, don't try to understand fsu women... it's loss of time and energy.
Yes, best to live in mom's basement, she will always love you :ROFL: You know, it isn't difficult to understand. Women, for the most part, want to be loved by the men they fell in love with. Generally, the chemistry happens within minutes and if there is no chemistry by the end of the first date (of if the you wish the first few) move on and look for that spark. When you find the one, you will know and you won't have any problems understanding her :-X
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OMG!!! The world does not conform to your standards of perfection!
What a bummer, eh? (said with Canuckistani accent)
Hold on Slumba. I'm not perfectionist, nobodys perfect, I'm not an exception. If I was Bred Pitt, I wouldn't be here talking to strangers about travelling to some Muhosransk to find a chick. And I wouldn't waste my time reading Raspy's flaming. This conversation started when I mentioned that the factor of "luck" should not be ignored.
When I say that i'd like to have a reasonably attractive woman, people here replied "have realistic expectations", "look yourself in the mirror", "what do you have to offer". I'm pointing to guys who have nothing special to offer but got attractive women in an easy way. Me and my school mate never got that girl from our class, whom we were both dreaming of, though we posses more qualities than her husband (I mentioned them, not with an intention to bragg how "my friend is perfect"). So, it's not always the qualities you have, some guys are just lucky or dunno.
I'm not saying that guys who are not perfect don't deserve love. I know ugly guys who are charismatic and even sexy, guys who never finished school but have "street wisdom", short guys who are brave boxers or ambitious businessmen or clumsy guys in glasses, who are smart and creative, I know a guy who may be overweight and has low payed truck driver's job, but he's a good, carrying and hardworking single dad... and so on. Each of them offers something. But in the end, some of the best women just end with wrong men, who are just ugly and stupid and don't offer anything.
BTW Upsylon, right now I'm talking about women in general, not particulary about the fsu women and I'm talking about the wrong choices some of them make.
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OMG!!! The world does not conform to your standards of perfection!
What a bummer, eh? (said with Canuckistani accent)
Hold on Slumba. I'm not perfectionist, nobodys perfect, I'm not an exception. If I was Bred Pitt, I wouldn't be here talking to strangers about travelling to some Muhosransk to find a chick. And I wouldn't waste my time reading Raspy's flaming. This conversation started when I mentioned that the factor of "luck" should not be ignored.
OK, you are giving me an honest response, I will try to give you an honest answer.
First, yes, there is luck. You need to fully accept that it hasn't happened to you, but that instead, you will have to use your brains and talent to attract a girl the old-fashioned way.
And isn't it better that way? If you are hoping you become "lucky" - you are admitting you couldn't make it without luck.
And I have been there, seeing a dumb-**** get the beautiful, intelligent girl that I wanted, and quite honestly, was a better fit for.
It was TREMENDOUSLY upsetting, both to me and some other mutual friends, including a buddy of mine I have known since I was 13 or 14.
I wasn't even angry she didn't choose me; I just wanted her to choose someone that wasn't a mentally deficient, classless moron.
Second, you need to lose whatever anger and bitterness, towards yourself, or others, or God, the Universe, Buddha, whatever, there is.
Women can pick up on that and it is a turn-off for them.
Tell yourself, "I am done with anger and bitterness" and figure out how to get this load off your back. I was in my late 30s when I could finally let some of it go - so I don't blame you if you haven't - but it must leave you!
Third, using "travelling to some Muhosransk to find a chick" is language that is dis-respectful.
Maybe you don't realize this (as I don't know if English is your native language); but I would never phrase the search for the woman I want to cherish, value, love, and whom I wish to have kids with, in this fashion... with this single phrase you are denigrating a part of the world you admit you have never seen, and reducing this wonderful woman you are searching for to being just another "chick".
You are not a bad guy, but you are running into resistance because others are not buying into your perspective. You should ask yourself if perhaps, your perspective is wrong.
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Slumba, thank you for the interesting reply. With some of it I can agree, with some of it not, but I have one big objection.
Maybe you don't realize this (as I don't know if English is your native language); but I would never phrase the search for the woman I want to cherish, value, love, and whom I wish to have kids with, in this fashion... with this single phrase you are denigrating a part of the world you admit you have never seen, and reducing this wonderful woman you are searching for to being just another "chick".
I'm afraid you didn't read my previous posts. It's frustrating that I often have to explain things over and over. I'm tired.
I have been to Russia and Ukraine numerous times, visiting several cities all the way to the Siberia to the east. I travelled alone, mostly in platzkarts having an opportunity to learn about russian life directly. I had relationships with russian women and nearly got married. I started fsu dating in 2005. I speak russian almost fluently, I'm well versed in their history, culture and mentality. Where did I admit that I've never seen that part of the world, I don't know?
I've great respect for russians, however note that Muhosransk is a humorous term that they invented, not me and they use it very much. If you translate it litteraly its contains vulgarity (fly-sh**), but in the contemporary Russian jargon it's a fictional small remote god-forgotten town. My russian gf's have used it.
Also, it's not true that i treat russian ladies with direspect, if you read my previous posts you would see that I have nice talk with one of them who is a member of this forum.
Speaking of "chicks", I see that many use that word here, so I figured that it is not that offensive. I've noticed much worse vocabulary in this forum. Btw none of the russian female members of this forum has complained to me about this word so far. Maybe they find it cute, I don't know
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lol I found the girl I wanted to meet before I went to Ukraine and went there because she is Ukrainian which I didn't know when I first decided I wanted to meet her. it wouldn't have mattered where she was in the world. Then I found her in the agency from hell, which we are BOTH clear of now, THANK GOD! On the side, I wouldn't wish what we went through with that agency on my worst enemy, but the silver lining is we got through it together and the experience made us closer.
When will newbies just be themselves? You have to court the girls and the chemistry has to be there. It doesn't matter if you're in Ukraine, Russia, UK, US, ..., on Mars it's the way it is wherever you are. If you think it's time to go find your mate in the FSU countries because you can't make it happen in your home country, you had better take a close look at yourself because that's NOT a good way to be thinking and you'll fail. :coffeeread:
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lol I found the girl I wanted to meet before I went to Ukraine and went there because she is Ukrainian . . . you had better take a close look at yourself because that's NOT a good way to be thinking and you'll fail. :coffeeread:
+1 Well said thank you
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When I say that i'd like to have a reasonably attractive woman, people here replied "have realistic expectations", "look yourself in the mirror", "what do you have to offer".
I think you put it a bit differently here below:
I can have decent looking girls both at home and the fsu. Not the top ones, but decent. However, I want the best-possible. I don't know what's the optimum I can achieve. After having incredible fsu beauties, it's hard to go down.
I was able to find just few serious ones. They are decently preetty and clever, with some I think i can have a succes, but I don't think they are worth the trouble. I don't think they are the maximum I can achieve. I like them only to a certain level. If they were local, I'd give them a chance for sure! But to travel to some Muhosransk to meet them, no, they are not the dream I was looking for.
So you are looking for "reasonably attractive women" and "decent looking girls" or "decently pretty and clever girls" need not apply as they are not the best possible and not worth the trouble. You do not know the optimum you can achieve and it is difficult to go down after having "incredible FSU beauties" because "they are not "the dream I was looking for."
Sounds to me like you search for the dream, the top ten, the arm candy, call it reasonably attractive if you must. Am I off base here? Did I read something wrong?
I believe that most R/U women are beautiful and above the decent classification. Of course beauty is definably in the eye... but if you add what they do with what they have, all the extras they can bring to the table then they can easily rise to incredible. My opinion for sure. I know it took me a good 7 years of active searching not to mention about 10 years of heavy interest before that to find my own personal dream so I know it can be difficult.
Of course if you do not care about being a close friend to your "chick" and you just want a reasonably, incredible FSU beauty of the dream kind then I do have some good advice based on solid groundwork.
It is not a lie that anyone can find a beautiful RW. Since all RW cannot be classified as the same you will need to allow for some common sense when dealing with the extremes.
The top ten, the young with large age difference, the dream, the incredible beauties in R/U quite often come with a price tag. If you get lucky or look long enough you will find what you look for... maybe, but many if not most of those women already know that they can find a head of the house who earns well into the 6 figure dollar income. There are quite a few of these guys looking.
Now maybe your business interests earn you $100,000 - $150,000 a year and they just do not care for you for some reason or maybe there are some women that put the words business and comfortable living together and are willing to go to first base with you before figuring out that you do not have what THEY dream about.
So again, my suggestion is to either lower your expectations in the realm of beauty to what you call decent and maybe expand your expectations to include friendship (you know, your second half kind) or keep on truckin til you find that dream who will probably find a way to bankrupt you and run off with some other guy up the ladder.
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Why they picked such guys, is beyond my comprehension. Some choose mediocre guys cause inside they are such themselves and cause they consider them "safe" and predictable. Being unique is not always appreciated and understood! Mediocre people are like herd of sheeps, they look for another sheep, not for a lion. But these guys are even lower league than mediocres.
In school, me and my friend had a mutual sympathy for one girl in our class. I saw her recently with a guy. She's classy, intelligent, sexy (not sluty). She was shining like goddess, while he was invisible next to her, more like a railstation porter than an appropriate match for such woman!
I saw pics on her fb, she married him! She was gracious like a swan in her wedding dress, while he looked like some rodent or a small macaque, like an uninvited pest to the wedding. I sent them to my ex-school mate, who now lives in NYC. He's a succesful businessman, handsome, stylish, erudite, creative, practises martial arts... He was shocked, where the f... this world is going?!
Let me get this straight. This goddess HAD to select someone like you or your classmate, not the guy she married.
First, do you know personally the guy she married? (I'd love to see a picture of this "loser" and one of you for comparo purposes.)
So, because she didn't choose a man that would meet your expectations, she is a what? (Slumba, I want you to think about this too.) Because she was classy, intelligent, sexy (not sluty) and married this "loser" she is being judged and sentenced in the court of public opinion as a woman making a mistake, correct? She didn't pick you.
Have you ever heard of the fox and the grapes?
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Slumba, thank you for the interesting reply. With some of it I can agree, with some of it not, but I have one big objection.
I have been to Russia and Ukraine numerous times, visiting several cities all the way to the Siberia to the east. I travelled alone, mostly in platzkarts having an opportunity to learn about russian life directly. I had relationships with russian women and nearly got married. I started fsu dating in 2005. I speak russian almost fluently, I'm well versed in their history, culture and mentality. Where did I admit that I've never seen that part of the world, I don't know?
I've great respect for russians, however note that Muhosransk is a humorous term that they invented, not me and they use it very much. If you translate it litteraly its contains vulgarity (fly-sh**), but in the contemporary Russian jargon it's a fictional small remote god-forgotten town. My russian gf's have used it.
I do know that you have been to FSU - but when you are talking about Muhosransk, that implies that this "small remote god-forgotten town" is one place that you have not specifically visited.
However (and maybe this is just my American bias), it is different when you speak about a country that is not your own - as an American I can say things about America, that if a visiting Brit said I would take offense about.
So I would not use such terms, in order to be sure that people will not question whether you like them or not.
It is interesting to read your viewpoint and use of "Muhosransk" and contrast them with another poster here on RUA based out of Odessa, who just came back from a town of 200 people and commented on the beauty of the women and the friendliness of the people, despite their lack of material wealth.
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и дался ж вам этот Мухосранск :chuckle:
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и дался ж вам этот Мухосранск :chuckle:
Millaa, are you wearing any clothes? BTW, the hatchet gives you a nice touch. :8)
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I am shocked that this thread is still going on :dh:
It is interesting that now it is not a matter that these heartless, self absorbed, greedy, shallow FSU women are only looking for money or to waste men's time, now they are choosing losers over our poor, selfless, dejected courters! Maybe you are just too awesome for these women and they fear that if they were to hook up with you, date you, marry you, bear children for you, etc... that you would be stolen by another woman so they go with these poor losers. Maybe you are just too cool! Maybe you are TOO nice! So nice that they can barely believe it so they dismiss you? Maybe it is just the complete opposite and a mature, sincere woman who is worthy looks to the heart of a man and that is what she falls in love with? I tend to believe the latter...
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и дался ж вам этот Мухосранск :chuckle:
Мила, первый раз я услышал это шуточное выражение (М. - город которого нет)) от моей бывшей девушки из России. Потом, я часто встречал его в многих русскоязычних форумах. Эта шутка была придумана самими русскими, а не нами иностранцами, чтобы издеваться над Россией. Я очень уважаю ваш народ и вашу страну, вот поэтому я сам выучил русский, но также и немного русского жаргона, котором это слово относится.
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It is interesting that now it is not a matter that these heartless, self absorbed, greedy, shallow FSU women are only looking for money or to waste men's time, now they are choosing losers over our poor, selfless, dejected courters!
Kenny, you are commenting on something that you didn't read properly. Many others also do that. I wasn't talking about the fsu women, but about a "loser" (actually undeserved winner) from my country. His now-wife was my "secret sympathy" back in primary school. I'm not from the FSU and never studied there.
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It is interesting that now it is not a matter that these heartless, self absorbed, greedy, shallow FSU women are only looking for money or to waste men's time, now they are choosing losers over our poor, selfless, dejected courters!
Kenny, you are commenting on something that you didn't read properly. Many others also do that. I wasn't talking about the fsu women, but about a "loser" (actually undeserved winner) from my country. His now-wife was my "secret sympathy" back in primary school. I'm not from the FSU and never studied there.
Where are you from exactly? Under a bridge, I am thinking. Nevermind... I see now that you're from Yugoslavia. I still think that your view of women sucks, you're not much of a suckup with the ladies AND you missed the point entirely.
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Have you ever heard of the fox and the grapes?
Which is what I said at the beginning of this thread tiphat
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и дался ж вам этот Мухосранск :chuckle:
Эта шутка была придумана самими русскими, а не нами иностранцами, чтобы издеваться над Россией.
Речь не о названии, а о том, с какой частотой оно здесь упоминается :reading:
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Millaa, are you wearing any clothes?
the typical start for many "first" chats in inet with foreigners :chuckle:
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Millaa, are you wearing any clothes?
the typical start for many "first" chats in inet with foreigners :chuckle:
LMAO :thumbsup:
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Kenny, the point is that some guys are just lucky and get what they dont deserve. Attractive women, money, positions often end in wrong hands. Others have to work hard even for less, even tho they posses better qualities. That's a fact. Don't believe in a tale that psycho-physical qualities/hardwork/morality are always rewarded.
P.S. I'm from Macedonia, Yugoslavia doesn't exist for a long time.
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Kenny, the point is that some guys are just lucky and get what they dont deserve. Attractive women, money, positions often end in wrong hands. Others have to work hard even for less, even tho they posses better qualities. That's a fact. Don't believe in a tale that psycho-physical qualities/hardwork/morality are always rewarded.
Bulls :censored: t
Either you make it happen or you make excuses
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Kenny, that's the problem. Good men must work hard to make it happen. Look at this forum, why such good and clever people have to travel miles to uknown countries, experiencing various problems to get married, while morons get everything on a plate at home. Qualities are not always rewarded, some have luck, others have to struggle, some are in between
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Kenny, that's the problem. Good men must work hard to make it happen. Look at this forum, why such good and clever men have to travel miles to uknown countries, experiencing various problems to get married, while morons get everything on a plate at home. Qualities are not always rewarded, some have luck, others have to struggle, some are in between
Change the word "men" on "people" in your posts ... and may be I'll agree with you ;D
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Kenny, that's the problem. Good men must work hard to make it happen. Look at this forum, why such good and clever men have to travel miles to uknown countries, experiencing various problems to get married, while morons get everything on a plate at home. Qualities are not always rewarded, some have luck, others have to struggle, some are in between
Change the word "men" on "people" in your posts ... and may be I'll agree with you ;D
OK, I just edited my post and I made the change :)
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Kenny, the point is that some guys are just lucky and get what they dont deserve. Attractive women, money, positions often end in wrong hands. Others have to work hard even for less, even tho they posses better qualities. That's a fact. Don't believe in a tale that psycho-physical qualities/hardwork/morality are always rewarded.
P.S. I'm from Macedonia, Yugoslavia doesn't exist for a long time.
Totally agree again. Same remark for love, for women...
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Kenny, the point is that some guys are just lucky and get what they dont deserve. Attractive women, money, positions often end in wrong hands. Others have to work hard even for less, even tho they posses better qualities. That's a fact. Don't believe in a tale that psycho-physical qualities/hardwork/morality are always rewarded.
P.S. I'm from Macedonia, Yugoslavia doesn't exist for a long time.
It must be nice to be God and to know who deserves what :evilgrin0002:
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Muzh_1 I agree, judging without knowing the person well is not OK, but we all do it. You see some event and you say "this is not right" or you see a person and say "my impression is not good, I don't like him because...". Yes, it's often subjective.
I don't know the "loser" well (IMO undeserved winner), but from what I saw, I'm not impressed. I can't know him as good as his wife does, I don't share my life and bed with him. I formed my opinion based on what I could see. You also judge me based on what I write, tho you don't know me personally.
I know personally other "losers" such as that guy, so I know what I'm talking about
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Slumba, I've been to such small remote towns and really, I met great people and beautiful women there. The joke was invented by the russians, but anyway, I will not use it anymore if you find it very offensive.
Bpike What conversation, what chemistry? Many women don't even bother to check the man's profile, let alone developing a decent conversation or meet in real. Some don't even read the messages (some sites show it). The man should take the first step, be confident, courteous, witty and all that, but it takes two for tango. Did you meet your girl on a fsu dating site? Or you first met in real in the US?
Rosco Some women are attracted to unpredictable and exciting guys. Depends on lifestyle and age etc. I played in bands in the past, I know musicians, painters, actors or dj's who are popular with arty women, cause they're considered unique, creative and exciting comparing to the colorless mediocre mass. However, too much of this can lead to trouble. There're girls attracted to bohemians/libertines, tho they know they'll cheat them. Some are excited by rock musicians or dj's, who use recreational drugs or bikers or 'extreme' sportists, who jump from bridges on their head. Some girls end on hard drugs, get a tatoo, which they later regret or are left with kids. I stayed away from trouble, now I live a different lifestyle. A different type of extremism are girls who get excited by gangsters, guns, golden chains. A reasonable amount of excitement is ok, but extremes can lead to a disaster.
Still, most women choose mediocre, boring, ordinary, uncreative guys, who look like each other like an egg to an egg with same haircuts, clothes, lifestyle, hobbies. Such guys will never be curious to learn who was, let's say, Visotskiy, they preffer Britney Spears, cause it's predictable, "normal" and "everyone listens to her". They'd never go to, let's say, Kazakhstan, which for them is just the "land of Borat", their understanding of "travel" is limited to "mediterranian summer resort". They'd never go to a museum, unless it's Louvre, cause "everyone goes there". You get my point.
Bagalia, maybe I'm expressing myself badly, english is not my native language.
I can't have Miss FSU, that's not realistic and I'm not Mister FSU, but I'd like to know what's the best that I can achieve within the frames of my possibilities. Imagine, there's a computer who can tell you this. You upload your pics in it and you fill your data: age/ height/ weight/ salary/ interests/ lifestyle and so on.. and the computer starts to analyze and search for a match through it's database KRRR-KRRR (sound of a HDD)
And finally, the computer ends his search and...
***BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH*** WINDOWS ERROR?! and it starts to smoke :)
Just joking. The computer tells you the search is finished, this is the maximum that you can achieve, here's the profile of the top girl for you. You can't have more than this. This is for you personally the optimal realistic combination of looks / brains/ compatibility, not higher, not lower.
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Many women don't even bother to check the man's profile, let alone developing a decent conversation or meet in real.
They looked at the photo and/or scanned the information and decided that they were not interested. Such is life tiphat
Still, most women choose mediocre, boring, ordinary, uncreative guys, who look like each other like an egg to an egg with same haircuts, clothes, lifestyle, hobbies.
They are compatible and if they are happy, more power to them :thumbsup:
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Many women don't even bother to check the man's profile, let alone developing a decent conversation or meet in real.
Many guys don't even bother to check the woman's profile, let alone developing a decent conversation or meet in real.
Still, most women choose mediocre, boring, ordinary, uncreative guys, who look like each other like an egg to an egg with same haircuts, clothes, lifestyle, hobbies.
Still, most guys choose mediocre, boring, ordinary, uncreative barbies, who look like each other like an egg to an egg with same haircuts, clothes, lifestyle, hobbies.
Find 4 differences ;D
Вот уж кого девушки точно не любят, так это зануду, трындящего уже 24 страницу об одном и том же ;D
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I am shocked that this thread is still going on :dh:
Surely you can't be shocked as you must know some guys on this forum love a lost cause, just have a read of "mission impossible started by dumb and assisted by dumber" for clarification I'm pretty certain that ran to about 50 pages, worth noting this one has much fewer insults though (:)
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I am shocked that this thread is still going on
It would be shorter if there were fewer comments about nothing.
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I am shocked that this thread is still going on
It would be shorter if there were fewer comments about nothing.
Positioning for the hijack?
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и дался ж вам этот Мухосранск :chuckle:
Мила, первый раз я услышал это шуточное выражение (М. - город которого нет)) от моей бывшей девушки из России. Потом, я часто встречал его в многих русскоязычних форумах. Эта шутка была придумана самими русскими, а не нами иностранцами, чтобы издеваться над Россией. Я очень уважаю ваш народ и вашу страну, вот поэтому я сам выучил русский, но также и немного русского жаргона, котором это слово относится.
Still it's true that the word Muhosransk has a derogatory meaning and not all Russians would use it :). Some of the Moscovites may use it speaking about smaller cities like mine where you have been. Knowing slang is good for better understanding but I'd hardly use it for the sake of not offending someone. Just an advice. :knit:
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Вот уж кого девушки точно не любят, так это зануду, трындящего уже 24 страницу об одном и том же ;D
It would be shorter if there were fewer comments about nothing.
I justy wanted to reply to everyone who wrote me. It's a forum isn't it? Mila and Tom, relax, I'll not write anymore, your forum will be again nice and clean. And btw I decided not to search anymore, it's pointless
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Mila and Tom, relax, I'll not write anymore, your forum will be again nice and clean. And btw I decided not to search anymore, it's pointless
My comment about shorter and nothing was not directed toward you because your comments are about something.
For what it's worth, one's dating past is no indication of what will happen in the future. One minute, we are losers; the next minute we are winners; if we aren't careful we go back to being losers again. C'est la vie!
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Slumba, I've been to such small remote towns and really, I met great people and beautiful women there. The joke was invented by the russians, but anyway, I will not use it anymore if you find it very offensive.
Bpike What conversation, what chemistry? Many women don't even bother to check the man's profile, let alone developing a decent conversation or meet in real. Some don't even read the messages (some sites show it). The man should take the first step, be confident, courteous, witty and all that, but it takes two for tango. Did you meet your girl on a fsu dating site? Or you first met in real in the US?
Rosco Some women are attracted to unpredictable and exciting guys. Depends on lifestyle and age etc. I played in bands in the past, I know musicians, painters, actors or dj's who are popular with arty women, cause they're considered unique, creative and exciting comparing to the colorless mediocre mass. However, too much of this can lead to trouble. There're girls attracted to bohemians/libertines, tho they know they'll cheat them. Some are excited by rock musicians or dj's, who use recreational drugs or bikers or 'extreme' sportists, who jump from bridges on their head. Some girls end on hard drugs, get a tatoo, which they later regret or are left with kids. I stayed away from trouble, now I live a different lifestyle. A different type of extremism are girls who get excited by gangsters, guns, golden chains. A reasonable amount of excitement is ok, but extremes can lead to a disaster.
Still, most women choose mediocre, boring, ordinary, uncreative guys, who look like each other like an egg to an egg with same haircuts, clothes, lifestyle, hobbies. Such guys will never be curious to learn who was, let's say, Visotskiy, they preffer Britney Spears, cause it's predictable, "normal" and "everyone listens to her". They'd never go to, let's say, Kazakhstan, which for them is just the "land of Borat", their understanding of "travel" is limited to "mediterranian summer resort". They'd never go to a museum, unless it's Louvre, cause "everyone goes there". You get my point.
Bagalia, maybe I'm expressing myself badly, english is not my native language.
I can't have Miss FSU, that's not realistic and I'm not Mister FSU, but I'd like to know what's the best that I can achieve within the frames of my possibilities. Imagine, there's a computer who can tell you this. You upload your pics in it and you fill your data: age/ height/ weight/ salary/ interests/ lifestyle and so on.. and the computer starts to analyze and search for a match through it's database KRRR-KRRR (sound of a HDD)
And finally, the computer ends his search and...
***BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH*** WINDOWS ERROR?! and it starts to smoke :)
Just joking. The computer tells you the search is finished, this is the maximum that you can achieve, here's the profile of the top girl for you. You can't have more than this. This is for you personally the optimal realistic combination of looks / brains/ compatibility, not higher, not lower.
I do get your point but I can't completely agree with you....and not out of badness I may add.
I would say most women are attracted to unpredictable and exciting guys, whether they can help it/accept it or not. You make some good examples but basically in my experience its almost like a game. OK there are some girls who fall head over heels for the rock start or footballer but this is something many of us here are not competing against. I've lost count of the amount of times i've spoken to lovely girls and listened to their all to common complaints of; he's a bast**d or he's hurt me so many times or I know I shouldn't but......I love him. And you wonder what it is, when you could be the nicest guy in the world but you've not got a chance! Why? Because your safe and boring!!
Now i'm not telling you to act like a :censored: to get the nice girls but there's an art to dating and keeping your girl. Through trial and error i've learned that when you like a girl and you spoil her, she finds it too easy and in some cases a turn off, and you lose her. When your not really that into a girl and she doesn't get your full attention, more often than not she comes back for more. I've also heard first hand from girls as to why they came back for more, and in the early stages of dating, they like the chase, the excitement and a bit of the bad boy.
Ok this may be some kind of rule for the 20-30 age bracket but this is what I know and in most cases this is reality. Of course you act like a dick and a good girl will turn on her heels and walk so its got its limits. Just make an impression, stand out from the crowd and get some time with her. Once you have her ear, don't get needy and bombard her with sms and mail, play it cool and make her wonder if your into her or not....let the tail wag the dog!!
I'm dating a lovely young girl at the moment and met her on a site. She had amazing photo's taken from modelling shots and it was obvious her inbox was going to be stacked with mail from hungry boys. I sent her a basic 'hi how you doing' type intro and never heard nothing. A week or two later she was still on the site and something about her just made me tick, I couldn't walk away. So I sent her another letter, this time being a little more inventive and got a reply. We met a month later and C'est la vie!
Anyhow, my point to this was that we were talking the other week about the types of people we both spoke to on the website. I was gob smacked when she told me about some of her propositions!! Offers of porn work in Germany and USA, some guy wanting to marry her and make her boobs even bigger (and their already huge) and another guy willing to pay her to watch her have sex.........apparently all black listed straight away!? ??? Anyway, I asked her why she chose to reply to me the second time, after ignoring me. She said that she got lots of mail saying how beautiful she was, offers of marriage, how guys would spend money on her........and then she read mine. She said that she wanted to reply to me because I was about the only one who didn't talk about her beauty and promise her bla bla bla. She then understood that I had a sense of humour, she liked my photo's and the conversation was interesting. But even more interesting was that she said once communication was established, she started to look for my mail and sometimes I wouldn't reply straight away. She thought I was being too confident and it wound her up........but she just kept coming back.
We met, clicked straight away and we're as close as can be. I wake up to an sms from this girl every morning and its great. She once told me that she doesn't know who she's looking for, sometimes someone to be her rock and other times someone who's the bad boy for excitement - so I play both Jekyll & Hyde at the moment and get the best of both worlds.
So my point is, don't assume that all women want 'boring, mediocre, ordinary guys', because you WILL fade into the background and continue your dry streak. In every aspect of life, we all look for that little sparkle which stands you out from the crowd....just don't be :censored:!!
Good luck
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Rosco that was brilliant, especially the part about "through trial and error."
To longing and upsylon, NOTHING COMES EASY. Please take your time and digest Rosco's advice. I can tell you from experience it will help you in your quest.
Key words: "Now i'm not telling you to act like a :censored: to get the nice girls..."
"Of course you act like a dick and a good girl will turn on her heels and walk"
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I've lost count of the amount of times i've spoken to lovely girls and listened to their all to common complaints of; he's a bast**d or he's hurt me so many times or I know I shouldn't but......I love him. And you wonder what it is, when you could be the nicest guy in the world but you've not got a chance! Why? Because your safe and boring!!
The question I would have is as follows: why in Heaven's name would you want to marry such a woman?!? Such women IMHO clearly have issues, and are best avoided at all cost tiphat
Of course you act like a dick and a good girl will turn on her heels and walk so its got its limits. Just make an impression, stand out from the crowd and get some time with her. Once you have her ear, don't get needy and bombard her with sms and mail, play it cool and make her wonder if your into her or not....let the tail wag the dog!!
Well said. It is not necessary to become a parody of a "bad boy" to attract the women who have emotional and psychological issues, rather be yourself, don't be needy, be interesting and eventually if you date enough women you will find the one :biggrin:
We met, clicked straight away and we're as close as can be.
That is the way it should be IMVHO :thumbsup: Men nonetheless insist on pursuing women who don't click with them, then whine as to how all women are sooooooooo bad ???
So my point is, don't assume that all women want 'boring, mediocre, ordinary guys', because you WILL fade into the background and continue your dry streak. In every aspect of life, we all look for that little sparkle which stands you out from the crowd....just don't be :censored:!!
True, and best not to assume that all RW are mass produced in a factory somewhere in Siberia. Different women want different things and are seeking different things in men. The challenge: not overlooking the women who are actually interested in you :-X
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I was going to comment on Rosco's post yesterday because it really is perfect! He hit on many good points that can help any guy no matter if it is a relationship with local women or FSU women. I also agree with Rasputin although I think that there is something to be said for the fact that we all, as human beings, want what we think we can't have and we don't want what is given freely.
Rosco was a little persistent while not being needy. He didn't do what every other guy was doing which was tell her how beautiful she was etc. He was himself. He had a real sincere desire to get to know this girl and he was funny.
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Rosco was a little persistent while not being needy.
In other words he was confident, valued himself and was willing to walk away if things did not work out. It is the only way as I learned very late in life in my 30s :-X
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But he DIDN'T just walk away. He didn't get anything from the first letter so he waited a bit and wrote her again. He had a genuine interest in her and got to know her well enough and made enough of a connection with her that she opened up to him. At least I think that's what it was and not just her boobs.
"I'm dating a lovely young girl at the moment and met her on a site. She had amazing photo's taken from modelling shots and it was obvious her inbox was going to be stacked with mail from hungry boys. I sent her a basic 'hi how you doing' type intro and never heard nothing. A week or two later she was still on the site and something about her just made me tick, I couldn't walk away. So I sent her another letter, this time being a little more inventive and got a reply. We met a month later and C'est la vie!"
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But he DIDN'T just walk away.
He did, remember there was the other woman in Ukraine :-X Also, the important time to walk away is when you do show up and there is not chemistry :coffeeread:
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But he DIDN'T just walk away.
He did, remember there was the other woman in Ukraine :-X Also, the important time to walk away is when you do show up and there is not chemistry :coffeeread:
I don't think it matters if in reality he "walked away" or not. From her side, he:
- wasn't a freak with the propositions
- didn't keep mailing her needy emails begging to respond
- didn't mail the same as everyone else talking only about her beauty (same as everyone else)
Not needy, and not the same as everyone else's mails or behaviors, all good things.
I do agree with the last sentence - it's just not worth chasing someone not really into you, once that's established, especially in person. Persistence is worthwhile, for a time, but not blindly nor indefinitely - in most cases, at best, there may be a "temporary reprieve" or some interest shown, but it's unlikely to last or go far, IMO.
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I don't think it matters if in reality he "walked away" or not. From her side, he:
- wasn't a freak with the propositions
- didn't keep mailing her needy emails begging to respond
- didn't mail the same as everyone else talking only about her beauty (same as everyone else)
I believe we are saying the same thing. Question as to timing: sure send a couple, three at most, initial messages. If she doesn't reply, move on. If you are sending more than that, then you are clearly obsessing IMHO. If she replies, then by all means be witty, charming and use your wit to impress her :dh:
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I've lost count of the amount of times i've spoken to lovely girls and listened to their all to common complaints of; he's a bast**d or he's hurt me so many times or I know I shouldn't but......I love him. And you wonder what it is, when you could be the nicest guy in the world but you've not got a chance! Why? Because your safe and boring!!
The question I would have is as follows: why in Heaven's name would you want to marry such a woman?!? Such women IMHO clearly have issues, and are best avoided at all cost tip hat
That's a bit harsh Rasputin. Not all girls who've had their heads turned at some stage by a bad boy are fruit loops with issues. I bet there's many a nice girl who's looked back on her dating history (especially when she's younger) and can't explain why she had certain feelings for some guy who was trouble. But I do concede, you certainly wouldn't want to marry a girl who felt this way about her ex........now that's wrong!!
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But he DIDN'T just walk away.
He did, remember there was the other woman in Ukraine :-X Also, the important time to walk away is when you do show up and there is not chemistry :coffeeread:
Well remembered Rasputin, no hiding on here eh?! :P
We did start talking again and the emotional connection was strong, but because of her mothers injuries, she couldn't leave Ukraine and come to me for at least another year not to mention support etc. It was a real shame and a great relationship but we couldn't make promises to each other under those circumstances. Life moves on and we don't know whats round the next corner, perhaps we'll meet again but with my new girl, it strangely feels right. Hard to quantify and put into words but sometimes you just get that feeling you've met someone special!!
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Should I start my own thread - What I Know About Hosers&Yanks? or may use this one ;D ,,,
Do RUA have any page limit?
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Should I start my own thread - What I Know About Hosers&Yanks? or may use this one ;D ,,,
Do RUA have any page limit?
No Limit. See Barak Obama as President.... :'( Fire Away.... :king:
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I've lost count of the amount of times i've spoken to lovely girls and listened to their all to common complaints of; he's a bast**d or he's hurt me so many times or I know I shouldn't but......I love him. And you wonder what it is, when you could be the nicest guy in the world but you've not got a chance! Why? Because your safe and boring!!
The question I would have is as follows: why in Heaven's name would you want to marry such a woman?!? Such women IMHO clearly have issues, and are best avoided at all cost tip hat
That's a bit harsh Rasputin. Not all girls who've had their heads turned at some stage by a bad boy are fruit loops with issues. I bet there's many a nice girl who's looked back on her dating history (especially when she's younger) and can't explain why she had certain feelings for some guy who was trouble. But I do concede, you certainly wouldn't want to marry a girl who felt this way about her ex........now that's wrong!!
Sure, if she had her teenage "bad boy" phase and grew out of it, no problem there. However, if she is in her 20s or worse yet her 30s and older and still is still seeking this same type, complaining about her bad dating choices, then my only advice would be to flee :biggrin: However, men are always willing to overlook pretty much everything if she is attractive enough and many will whine incessantly about it afterwards :evilgrin0002:
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Should I start my own thread - What I Know About Hosers&Yanks? or may use this one ;D ,,,
Do RUA have any page limit?
No Limit. See Barak Obama as President.... :'( Fire Away.... :king:
How unfair ,,,, One american guy is in 10 times more popular then ALL russian and ukrainian women :(
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Should I start my own thread - What I Know About Hosers&Yanks? or may use this one ;D ,,,
Do RUA have any page limit?
No Limit. See Barak Obama as President.... :'( Fire Away.... :king:
How unfair ,,,, One american guy is in 10 times more popular then ALL russian and ukrainian women :(
Milla, just start a thread on politics, only from the Russian womans perspective. :laugh:
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Should I start my own thread - What I Know About Hosers&Yanks? or may use this one ;D ,,,
Do RUA have any page limit?
No Limit. See Barak Obama as President.... :'( Fire Away.... :king:
How unfair ,,,, One american guy is in 10 times more popular then ALL russian and ukrainian women :(
Milla, just start a thread on politics, only from the Russian womans perspective. :laugh:
I'll prefer to discuss the pespectives of Petrov... he'll stay in F1 races as Caterham pilot ;D
or better back to the main thread subject?
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I'll prefer to discuss the pespectives of Petrov... he'll stay in F1 races as Caterham pilot ;D
or better back to the main thread subject?
Wow! a Russian lady into F1 ?
Mr Petrov is going to have to learn to pronounce Caterham (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17078138) as Kate -er - ham ...rather than cat -er - makes noise akin to gathering sputum from back of throat - 'm' ;) (1 minute 03 seconds into interview )
Ah well, if he has brought Millions in sponsorship - he can call the tieam what he likes !!
Methinks his new team mate will prove the better driver..our Vitaly has not proved to be consistent - and his UGLY new car is not likely to win races :(
[img=http://www.f1sa.com/images/pics/2012/2012_F1_Caterham_car_ugly_nose.jpg][/img]
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Methinks his new team mate will prove the better driver..our Vitaly has not proved to be consistent - and his UGLY new car is not likely to win races :(
[img=http://www.f1sa.com/images/pics/2012/2012_F1_Caterham_car_ugly_nose.jpg][/img]
agree >>> Caterham is the uglest among ugly 2012 cars ;D
and I'm curious where Kimi will be :smokin:
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and I'm curious where Kimi will be :smokin:
Depends which Kimi 'shows up ' ... he wasn't consistent ( or apparently that enthusiastic ) leading up to his two year break.... hopefully, his time away will be positive.. He's being hired for his experience..
The McLaren is the best looking car so far - but will the "Duck-billed Platypus" noses prove more effective? F1 needs to change this rule - F1 cars shouldn't look UGLY :(
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Nascar racing season is about to start... last night the Budwieser shootout was held at Daytona making to first "unofficial" race of the year.
Kyle Busch went on to win it after putting on an amazing driving clinic where at one point he made a spectacular save after his car was bumped sideways at 200 mph on the banked raceway. Then in the last couple laps he again was bumped from behind by Jeff Gordon, resulting in Jeff crashing into other surrounding cars and flipping his car with it eventually sliding to a stop on its roof. Busch again made a spectacular recovery and went on to win in the following restart by pulling out from behind Tony Stewart and beating him to the finish line by mere inches in the last stretch.
So for all you F1 fans, when you get bored watching cars with superior aerodynamics and braking run around a track, why don't you check out the Daytona 500 on Feb 26th. Anyone can run around a track with an F1 car.... but try racing side by side, inches away from each other at 200 mph+ with a car that is basically a brick on wheels and see what happens! THOSE are the real drivers!!! :bow: :chuckle:
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Years ago, I drove a Caterham Super 7.
What an orgasmic experience. :o
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So for all you F1 fans, when you get bored watching cars with superior aerodynamics and braking run around a track,
no Nascar racings translations in Russia :D
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Seen both live, F-1 hands down.
I did some laps in a corvette GT-1 car, that was an experience.
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So for all you F1 fans, when you get bored watching cars with superior aerodynamics and braking run around a track,
no Nascar racings translations in Russia :D
Here's the official website... in english though. http://www.nascar.com/
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So for all you F1 fans, when you get bored watching cars with superior aerodynamics and braking run around a track, why don't you check out the Daytona 500 on Feb 26th. Anyone can run around a track with an F1 car.... but try racing side by side, inches away from each other at 200 mph+ with a car that is basically a brick on wheels and see what happens! THOSE are the real drivers!!! :bow: :chuckle:
Hi d672
I'm not one of the folk who thinks my sport is best.... I love Nascar...it's another form of petrol-head pleasure.. involving a totally different technique.
I PREFER watching Oval racing in single seaters - such as Indy, but acknowledge that Nascar is more successful from an economic point of view.