Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: Steveboy on May 24, 2021, 04:37:54 AM
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I think you have to congratulate the president for this feat..
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/russian-agents-were-board-hijacked-071146525.html
I would of done the same thing..
The thing is this KID is just 26 years old! What can he possibly know about life or anything, what ever the problems in Belarus what can a kid who just got out nappies possibly know about anything other than starting a Telegram channel to cause problems for a whole country..I would also lock him up..It is the problem today youngsters just out of their nappies wanting to change the world..
Our youngest was only recently going to protest in Russia for her "Rights and freedom" :laugh: she is 13.. She changed her mind when she realized her suitcase was being packed at the same time..
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It is amusing, if the United States does something along the same lines it is evil. If Russia or Belarus arrests or kills a journalist or person of the opposition it is commendable act.
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It is amusing, if the United States does something along the same lines it is evil. If Russia or Belarus arrests or kills a journalist or person of the opposition it is commendable act.
Evil? I dont remember similar outrage when Spain did this on USA request. They were hoping to catch Snowden at the time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
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Let's not forget the most important point here AS USUAL!!
“It’s very difficult to believe that this kind of action could’ve been taken without at least the acquiescence of the authorities in Moscow,” Raab said. :laugh:
What a Helmet!
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It is amusing, if the United States does something along the same lines it is evil. If Russia or Belarus arrests or kills a journalist or person of the opposition it is commendable act.
Evil? I dont remember similar outrage when Spain did this on USA request. They were hoping to catch Snowden at the time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
Exactly. And will the UK also be releasing political prisoner Eduard Snowden? Er...
Quote
“The UK calls for the immediate release of Mr Protasevich and other political prisoners held in Belarus. The UK is working with our allies on a coordinated response, including further sanctions."
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Here is an interesting commentary from Russia giving a little context and more information.
https://www.facebook.com/maria.zakharova.167/posts/10226157063342750
I am not a big supporter of 'whataboutism' however, even if the sole purpose of the plane diverting to Minsk was the apprehension of a fugitive from the law, Belarus is far from the first state to have engaged in such activity.
It seems that the diversion was due to a call from the Ryanair captain on the flight. We shall, I am sure, learn more about that in the fullness of time.
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RT's take on it: https://www.rt.com/russia/524678-belarus-outrage-morales-grounding/
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It seems that the diversion was due to a call from the Ryanair captain on the flight. We shall, I am sure, learn more about that in the fullness of time.
Yes, the (time corrected) call of events:
2 wanted criminals (or activists / free journalists depending on whom you ask) board the plane with 4 KGB agents and other passengers + crew
As soon as over belarus airspace , the 4 KGB officers threathen to blow up the plane
Plane reports S.O.S to belarussian ATC
ATC scrambles mig 29 + diverts plane to minsk (this is standard in such an event, as the world should know ...)
Plane lands safely and everyone disembarks.
2 Criminals + 4 KGB officers vanish from the airport (later we hear the 2 criminals were arrested)
Everyone else boards and plane lands with +7 hours delay in Vilnius without further incident.
So the only one that has any blame here, are those mysterious 4 KGB officers. The Belorussian ATC had done nothing wrong and belarus seized its chance to apprehend 2 criminals (yeah yeah, we know, in western world these are free journalists, etc.).
Somehow the western media spin this as a belarussian ATC fault, or Belarussian gov't fault, or whatever. But the ATC was never to blame, they did their jobs exactly as described.
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Bottom line: USA tried to get Snowden, who is languishing in prison.
USA cares about human rights of journalists? :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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What it really does is show how much Russia wants to keep Belarus under its control. It is not Ukraine that need Russia it is Russia that needs Ukraine. The same is true with Belarus. Russia does not have enough to be a world power without these two countries. So keeping the man in power who is wins by faking the elections is what is needed in Belarus. There is no concern about what the people want. Ukraine well ... that is still being worked on.
If someone would of had a position like Snowden had for the USA but worked for the Russian Government, Russia would had him killed him and been done with it. No planes would been diverted and of course Russia would deigned any knowledge of what happened to him.
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What it really does is show how much Russia wants to keep Belarus under its control. It is not Ukraine that need Russia it is Russia that needs Ukraine. The same is true with Belarus. Russia does not have enough to be a world power without these two countries. So keeping the man in power who is wins by faking the elections is what is needed in Belarus. There is no concern about what the people want. Ukraine well ... that is still being worked on.
So you are pushing the big lie, that Lukashenko is not the legitimate President of Belarus? :coffeeread:
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Bottom line: USA tried to get Snowden, who is languishing in prison.
Lets try to keep those wanted by different governments in order.
Unless I am mistaken & according to Steveboy Moscow, RUSSIA is a relatively free local. This is where E. Snowden resides with his wife. I am of the opinion the releases of intelligence material was more embarrassing than damaging.
J. Assange who via WikiLeaks initially published documents from C. Manning is stuck in legal limbo in the UK. The documents published were more embarrassing than damaging. But numerous international 'leaders' were caught out. He continues to publish activities that paint politicians and leaders as corrupt.
As for the chap from Belarus, not really sure what to say, but he must have been a pain in the posterior of Lukashenko. Worth noting any ruler who prohibits clapping in public could be considered less than honest. So yes I suspect he manipulated the LAST election.
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What it really does is show how much Russia wants to keep Belarus under its control. It is not Ukraine that need Russia it is Russia that needs Ukraine. The same is true with Belarus. Russia does not have enough to be a world power without these two countries. So keeping the man in power who is wins by faking the elections is what is needed in Belarus. There is no concern about what the people want. Ukraine well ... that is still being worked on.
If someone would of had a position like Snowden had for the USA but worked for the Russian Government, Russia would had him killed him and been done with it. No planes would been diverted and of course Russia would deigned any knowledge of what happened to him.
Why do you continually spout rubbish about Ukraine in every thread??
Russia not a world power!! Lmao..
Russia needs Ukraine!! For what I ask, does Russia need a bankrupt country??
Not the legitimate President!! Duh..
Tex, how can you sit there and type anything about faked election results after your own countries recently faked elections, pray tell??.
Surely you remember the US stopping a plane from flying due to Snowden being suspected as being on board, or the many kidnapped persons at the US request in various countries of the world and delivered to their dirty hands, we could also include the many rendition flights, add to this the plight of the Huawei financial boss being arrested in Canada at the request of your Gov, illegally I may add, as she was in transit and not on Canadian soil..
Would be better if you engaged your brain before using your mouth/fingers.. (that may also be an impossibility for you)..
HTH
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Bottom line: USA tried to get Snowden, who is languishing in prison.
Lets try to keep those wanted by different governments in order.
Unless I am mistaken & according to Steveboy Moscow, RUSSIA is a relatively free local. This is where E. Snowden resides with his wife. I am of the opinion the releases of intelligence material was more embarrassing than damaging.
J. Assange who via WikiLeaks initially published documents from C. Manning is stuck in legal limbo in the UK. The documents published were more embarrassing than damaging. But numerous international 'leaders' were caught out. He continues to publish activities that paint politicians and leaders as corrupt.
As for the chap from Belarus, not really sure what to say, but he must have been a pain in the posterior of Lukashenko. Worth noting any ruler who prohibits clapping in public could be considered less than honest. So yes I suspect he manipulated the LAST election.
Brain fart as to who is in prison, thank you.
And I’m playing the devils advocate.
We put up with Hillary and the DNC claiming Trump stole the election in 2016 for 4 years.
And she had the Democrat controlled media pushing their lies 24/7 the whole time.
But now when there are very legitimate questions being raised by Trump and others; they don’t want to hear it.
I am laughing at what Belarus did.
Let the EU and the US get their panties in a bunch. :laugh:
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Bottom line: USA tried to get Snowden, who is languishing in prison.
Lets try to keep those wanted by different governments in order.
Unless I am mistaken & according to Steveboy Moscow, RUSSIA is a relatively free local. This is where E. Snowden resides with his wife. I am of the opinion the releases of intelligence material was more embarrassing than damaging.
J. Assange who via WikiLeaks initially published documents from C. Manning is stuck in legal limbo in the UK. The documents published were more embarrassing than damaging. But numerous international 'leaders' were caught out. He continues to publish activities that paint politicians and leaders as corrupt.
As for the chap from Belarus, not really sure what to say, but he must have been a pain in the posterior of Lukashenko. Worth noting any ruler who prohibits clapping in public could be considered less than honest. So yes I suspect he manipulated the LAST election.
Someone's got the message.. :bow:
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What it really does is show how much Russia wants to keep Belarus under its control. It is not Ukraine that need Russia it is Russia that needs Ukraine. The same is true with Belarus. Russia does not have enough to be a world power without these two countries. So keeping the man in power who is wins by faking the elections is what is needed in Belarus. There is no concern about what the people want. Ukraine well ... that is still being worked on.
If someone would of had a position like Snowden had for the USA but worked for the Russian Government, Russia would had him killed him and been done with it. No planes would been diverted and of course Russia would deigned any knowledge of what happened to him.
Why do you continually spout rubbish about Ukraine in every thread??
Russia not a world power!! Lmao..
Russia needs Ukraine!! For what I ask, does Russia need a bankrupt country??
Not the legitimate President!! Duh..
Tex, how can you sit there and type anything about faked election results after your own countries recently faked elections, pray tell??.
Surely you remember the US stopping a plane from flying due to Snowden being suspected as being on board, or the many kidnapped persons at the US request in various countries of the world and delivered to their dirty hands, we could also include the many rendition flights, add to this the plight of the Huawei financial boss being arrested in Canada at the request of your Gov, illegally I may add, as she was in transit and not on Canadian soil..
Would be better if you engaged your brain before using your mouth/fingers.. (that may also be an impossibility for you)..
HTH
Your last line nails it.
He’s either got dementia or the fluoridation in the water, the GMO in the food and decades of propaganda has turned him into a zombie.
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What it really does is show how much Russia wants to keep Belarus under its control. It is not Ukraine that need Russia it is Russia that needs Ukraine. The same is true with Belarus. Russia does not have enough to be a world power without these two countries. So keeping the man in power who is wins by faking the elections is what is needed in Belarus. There is no concern about what the people want. Ukraine well ... that is still being worked on.
If someone would of had a position like Snowden had for the USA but worked for the Russian Government, Russia would had him killed him and been done with it. No planes would been diverted and of course Russia would deigned any knowledge of what happened to him.
Why do you continually spout rubbish about Ukraine in every thread??
Russia not a world power!! Lmao..
Russia needs Ukraine!! For what I ask, does Russia need a bankrupt country??
Not the legitimate President!! Duh..
Tex, how can you sit there and type anything about faked election results after your own countries recently faked elections, pray tell??.
Surely you remember the US stopping a plane from flying due to Snowden being suspected as being on board, or the many kidnapped persons at the US request in various countries of the world and delivered to their dirty hands, we could also include the many rendition flights, add to this the plight of the Huawei financial boss being arrested in Canada at the request of your Gov, illegally I may add, as she was in transit and not on Canadian soil..
Would be better if you engaged your brain before using your mouth/fingers.. (that may also be an impossibility for you)..
HTH
Your last line nails it.
He’s either got dementia or the fluoridation in the water, the GMO in the food and decades of propaganda has turned him into a zombie.
It may just be that he played truant on his school days, and didn't get the message, Poor little boy in the intellect department.. :laugh:
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Tex, how can you sit there and type anything about faked election results after your own countries recently faked elections, pray tell??.
Priceless. :bow:
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Before Tex points out the stick in another country's eye, he should remove the log in ours. Let's fix our problems first and then think about setting a good example for the world again.
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What it really does is show how much Russia wants to keep Belarus under its control. It is not Ukraine that need Russia it is Russia that needs Ukraine. The same is true with Belarus. Russia does not have enough to be a world power without these two countries. So keeping the man in power who is wins by faking the elections is what is needed in Belarus. There is no concern about what the people want. Ukraine well ... that is still being worked on.
If someone would of had a position like Snowden had for the USA but worked for the Russian Government, Russia would had him killed him and been done with it. No planes would been diverted and of course Russia would deigned any knowledge of what happened to him.
Why do you continually spout rubbish about Ukraine in every thread??
Russia not a world power!! Lmao..
Russia needs Ukraine!! For what I ask, does Russia need a bankrupt country??
Not the legitimate President!! Duh..
Tex, how can you sit there and type anything about faked election results after your own countries recently faked elections, pray tell??.
Surely you remember the US stopping a plane from flying due to Snowden being suspected as being on board, or the many kidnapped persons at the US request in various countries of the world and delivered to their dirty hands, we could also include the many rendition flights, add to this the plight of the Huawei financial boss being arrested in Canada at the request of your Gov, illegally I may add, as she was in transit and not on Canadian soil..
Would be better if you engaged your brain before using your mouth/fingers.. (that may also be an impossibility for you)..
HTH
Why do you continually spout rubbish about Ukraine in every thread??. Thats easy to answer.. cos he is sponsoring someone in Ukraine and feels like the good old USA he is also helping out poor suffering people..sending over a phone here and there and sometimes a food parcel..
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Does anyone know if any sanctions were actually placed on the saudis for the International outrage they committed .. you know sending a private jet full of hit men to another country to chop a journalist up then dip his body parts in an acid bath? That all kind of was brushed under the carpet.. funny old world we live in.. What we really need is some big event to wipe out half the planet and the Western hypocrites .. the sooner the better for the good of humanity!
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I think you have to congratulate the president for this feat..
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/russian-agents-were-board-hijacked-071146525.html
I would of done the same thing..
The thing is this KID is just 26 years old! What can he possibly know about life or anything, what ever the problems in Belarus what can a kid who just got out nappies possibly know about anything other than starting a Telegram channel to cause problems for a whole country..I would also lock him up..It is the problem today youngsters just out of their nappies wanting to change the world..
Our youngest was only recently going to protest in Russia for her "Rights and freedom" :laugh: she is 13.. She changed her mind when she realized her suitcase was being packed at the same time..
While on the subject of locking people up, the one person this should happen to is that Greta girl.
To see the liberatii falling over themselves to show their ‘environmental’ credentials over that silly girls faux outrage is vomit worthy.
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It seems a little 'odd'. To believe the story we are being told by 'western' media, we need to believe that the Belarusian law enforcement, presidency and intelligence services are insane, with no understanding of how the world works, a complete sense of impunity and no idea of proportionality.
All of those elements run counter to what we know and to all previous evidence.
If we are to believe the narrative we have been given, we also need to think that this blogger, Pratasevich, was such a threat to the peace and stability of Belarus that capturing him was worth the inevitable consequences that would flow from his capture in this manner. There is no evidence of this whatsoever.
This appears to be a reboot of the Navalny story. Take a relative unknown, Pratasevich, who may have been known of in Belarus, but certainly has no international standing. Create an incident that bigs up his profile in a way that can be used against the legitimate government and weaponise him against the Belarusian government.
If we assume that the Belarusian government and law enforcement is not run by imbeciles who are also mentally ill, then another possibility presents itself.
A bomb threat occurred, the plane was diverted to Minsk, accompanied by a military plane as is now protocol in such cases. Pratasevich was identified as his identity was checked by the law enforcement who were investigating the bomb threat and he was pulled in. In that sense, all is routine.
It isn't even hard to believe that Pratasevich had intelligence agents following him just as Navalny would've done and if that was the case, in this situation, they'd not have wanted to continue on to Lithuania - that'd be a career (or liberty) ending move.
My guess is that the bomb call was genuine but was a hoax operation designed to enable the injection of Pratasevich into the western news cycle and his weaponisation. After all, if there was a bomb threat, over Belarusian airspace, what else could Belarusian ATC do? What else could the government do? For sure they would bring the plane in and investigate - imagine the consequences of not doing so?
The bomb hoax story about the threat coming from Hamas might look very fishy, but no responsible government could afford to say 'ah, it'll be OK' and let the flight continue.
Given the bomb threat, the arrest at the airport of Pratasevich was absolutely inevitable and, I am pretty certain, planned for. My biggest question is this: was Pratasevich aware of his role in the plot or is he a patsy. I am inclined to think patsy given that, whether under duress or not, he has made it clear that he is cooperating with the investigation against him. Unlike the Navalny case, which may well have been planned with Navalny's knowledge of at least part of the program, this may have been a purely opportunistic one carried out at short notice.
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I think you have to congratulate the president for this feat..
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/russian-agents-were-board-hijacked-071146525.html
I would of done the same thing..
The thing is this KID is just 26 years old! What can he possibly know about life or anything, what ever the problems in Belarus what can a kid who just got out nappies possibly know about anything other than starting a Telegram channel to cause problems for a whole country..I would also lock him up..It is the problem today youngsters just out of their nappies wanting to change the world..
Our youngest was only recently going to protest in Russia for her "Rights and freedom" :laugh: she is 13.. She changed her mind when she realized her suitcase was being packed at the same time..
While on the subject of locking people up, the one person this should happen to is that Greta girl.
To see the liberatii falling over themselves to show their ‘environmental’ credentials over that silly girls faux outrage is vomit worthy.
I had a little run in with an expat here a few months back.. some young kid just out of his nappies telling me the world will be fixed by people like himself, him and the younger generation will stop the pollution, save the planet he even had the cheek to tell me "Look mate I do not want to insult you" yeah a right cocky little tit .. after all his blabber I asked if being a responsible citizen he had registered with the local tax office down the road..I already knew he was working cash in hand sort of thing.. Deleted me from his friends list in &^#*(^book and made sure I could not find him .. Yeah right as If I would really want to find the idiot..
Nothing worse than hypocrites ..
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MOST OF THE STUFF ABOUT FAKE ELECTIONS IN THE US IS JUST FAKE NEWS. Believe what you want but that is the facts. The extreme right and the left will spend anything to convince people of this to motivate the useful fools. Foreign powers will help spread the news of this. Trump was not over popular in the USA on November 3,2020.
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A small update.
https://www.facebook.com/maria.zakharova.167/posts/10226161554135017
It seems that the 4 Russian citizens who were claimed to be FSB (although mostly the acronym KGB was used) decided to get off the plane in Belarus rather than continue to Vilnius.
The Russian foreign ministry had been a tad concerned about the 'missing' passengers and had raised the matter with their counterparts in Belarus. Turns out there were no missing Russians as can be seen from Maria's post. The only Russian citizen is Pratasevich's girlfriend.
It seems that it was simply more convenient to travel back home from Minsk than Vilnius. That makes sense if your destination is Belarus rather than Lithuania.
The media narrative does seem to be imploding of its own accord. Belarus has set up an inquiry into the whole incident and will report shortly.
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MOST OF THE STUFF ABOUT FAKE ELECTIONS IN THE US IS JUST FAKE NEWS. Believe what you want but that is the facts. The extreme right and the left will spend anything to convince people of this to motivate the useful fools. Foreign powers will help spread the news of this. Trump was not over popular in the USA on November 3,2020.
Rubbish. Why don't you post some videos of a Joe Biden event, compared to a Trump event, in the run up to the election.
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MOST OF THE STUFF ABOUT FAKE ELECTIONS IN THE US IS JUST FAKE NEWS. Believe what you want but that is the facts. The extreme right and the left will spend anything to convince people of this to motivate the useful fools. Foreign powers will help spread the news of this. Trump was not over popular in the USA on November 3,2020.
You have zero evidence there is election fraud in the Belarussian elections but you claim it happened. You have tons of evidence outside of and sitting in court of American election fraud yet you are blind. Belarussians could only wish they had the amount of access of information we do to prove the fraud in their elections.
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MOST OF THE STUFF ABOUT FAKE ELECTIONS IN THE US IS JUST FAKE NEWS.
Ha Ha said the clown...
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I sort of doubt the 'narrative' is imploding. But it is becoming a stranger event with greater implications. The plane was closer to Vilnius than Minsk when it was ordered by a fighter jet to turn around to Minsk.
The person of interest is a Roman D. Protasevich, 26 years old. He until last year was the editor of a platform, Nexta, that provided video content of the political situation in Belarus. Various videos posted there supposedly showed both election fraud or public protests in Belarus after the last election.
Last year he resigned and fled for Poland where he sought political asylum. That he would fly from Athens to Vilnius does indicate a certain lack of commonsense.
Belarus is already rather isolated but now is even more so with most European countries refusing to fly to or over the country. Not withstanding an upcoming meeting between V. Putin and J. Biden I suspect this event will be seen as a return to a Cold War stance between Central/Western Europe and Russia/Belarus. My guess this arrest or hijacking, depending on your viewpoint, will in fact hasten the entry of Ukraine into NATO and an even closer association with the European Union.
Somehow I doubt this is the outcome that V. Putin and A. Lukashenko desired.
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AvHdB, the distance from the destination is not the issue here. The plane was the responsibility of the Belarusian ATC and, from what I had previously read, the threat was that the plane would be blown up over Vilnius. What happened between the aircrew and the ATC seems to have been pretty normal. The matter seems to have been complicated somewhat because the captain of the flight provided a contact number in Vilnius for ATC to contact and notify - that number was called and not answered.
Setting aside prejudices for a moment, imagine what the outcome would have been of allowing the plane to fly on knowing about the threat and the Ryanair flight ended in a ball of fire over the capital city of Lithuania? The only option available to the Belarusian authorities would be to divert the plane from its planned destination.
Belarusian ATC: We have been informed that there is a bomb on your plane, it is set to go off as you approach the destination airport. Of course it is probably a hoax, they usually are. We're just letting you know. Carry on, have a good flight.
Ryanair captain: Thanks for the update, we'll be on our way.
That's a conversation that would never happen!
Now, let us take a hypothetical, but contextually relevant case. Let us assume that the plane had a mechanical issue and needed to divert to Belarus. The plane lands, the passengers disembark and, as a matter of course, their identities are checked. One of the passengers is a murderer who had managed to escape capture. The police take him into custody.
Would anyone here be up in arms saying that the fugitive should be released?
Of course not.
This guy, Protasevich, is like the hypothetical murderer, a fugitive from the law. He knows it, the people who know him know it. He left Belarus specifically to avoid the consequences of his premeditated actions. So, why should he be treated differently from the murderer? Even if the guy was guilty or accused of something much more mundane, it seems quite reasonable to haul him in if his name was on a watch list for apprehension. On that note, I have personal experience of just such a thing happening on crossing a border. It was very scary and I was very surprised that I was apprehended for the matter in which I was involved. However, I certainly did not feel unfairly treated. According to the laws of the country, I was entering, I was a wanted person. I dealt with the matter and eventually carried on my journey - mine was a minor issue and I dealt with it. The point is that what happened to Protasevich was normal and to be expected.
It follows that the only genuine issue is the reason for him being in Belarus. And, as I have already noted, Occam's Razor suggests that the reason for him being there was not because the Belarusian authorities planned the sequence of events that took him to Minsk.
I am sure that "Somehow I doubt this is the outcome that V. Putin and A. Lukashenko desired." is the product of fantasy and prejudice making assumptions without any evidence.
I do not know for sure what happened, none of us does. However, just ask yourself the questions I posed above. I cannot imagine that the entire power vertical of Belarus, including the president are insane or stupid. So, the chances that they would, as a group, do insane or stupid things is very small. If that is the case, then other options need to be considered.
I do know that the world is full of people willing to jump to irrational conclusions based upon prejudice - just as we see in this thread.
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I sort of doubt the 'narrative' is imploding. But it is becoming a stranger event with greater implications. The plane was closer to Vilnius than Minsk when it was ordered by a fighter jet to turn around to Minsk.
And yet, this was exactly what the world agreed upon this isn't Minsks doing but simply S.O.P. for the airtravel procedures.
The bomb-threat was also real, as 4 people were making that threat and the plane itself called the s.o.s. to minsk tower.
The person of interest is a Roman D. Protasevich, 26 years old. He until last year was the editor of a platform, Nexta, that provided video content of the political situation in Belarus. Various videos posted there supposedly showed both election fraud or public protests in Belarus after the last election.
Last year he resigned and fled for Poland where he sought political asylum. That he would fly from Athens to Vilnius does indicate a certain lack of commonsense.
Pervy kanal news item, around the 7 minute mark the belarus incident starts : https://www.1tv.ru/n/407100
Their take on it: It was a nice catch for Belarus that the wanted criminal was forced to disembark due to the bomb threat (nothing however on how that plane came to land).
The "free journalist" also has some unsavory ties to nazi-terrorists in Ukraine, which gives probable cause for arrest (although I do not believe the i-was-not-mistreated video).
Anyway , watch it all yourself.
Belarus is already rather isolated but now is even more so with most European countries refusing to fly to or over the country. Not withstanding an upcoming meeting between V. Putin and J. Biden I suspect this event will be seen as a return to a Cold War stance between Central/Western Europe and Russia/Belarus. My guess this arrest or hijacking, depending on your viewpoint, will in fact hasten the entry of Ukraine into NATO and an even closer association with the European Union.
Somehow I doubt this is the outcome that V. Putin and A. Lukashenko desired.[/size][/font]
Putin already commented that ukraine => nato is a nogo for Russia and will officially declare war on ukraine to prevent it.
Of course, this will isolate Russia even further on the world-stage, so perhaps its just hard-talk and nothing else.
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Belarus: Lukashenko, Ryanair and Raman Protasevich :)
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Here is a report on the events including a timeline of the events and a transcript of the conversation between the pilot and ATC.
We learn some interesting things.
1) The warning was specific about the plane blowing up over Vilnius, ruling it put as a destination.
2) The warning email was sent from Switzerland (apparently) and went to Vilnis, Minsk and Athens at the same moment. That probably is why the message was considered to be a security level red (see the transcript.
3) The pilot was advised to go to Minsk but was not impelled to do so. He could've chosen to go on to Vilnius or choose another airport.
http://www.caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/
The transcript is almost certain to be a pretty accurate version of events given that it will have been recorded elsewhere and there has not as yet been any suggestion that it is inaccurate nor has any other version been published.
There's some shonky stuff about timings of messages from people outside of Belarus that suggests some degree of foreknowledge - or they were bloody quick off the mark with prepared messages and statements.
I am leaning toward the opinion that this was an external operation designed to set up Belarus for hostile actions from the EU/UK/USA. I also think that Protasevich may well be a fall guy.
The Belarusian authorities are being castigated for doing things that were exactly the right choices. There is no countervailing evidence to support the Belarusian authorities doing anything wrong. There is no suggestion that the communications transcribed are inaccurate and, going from those, it seems hard to see that the plane's crew were forced to fly to Minsk as we have been told. The initiating email was certainly a hoax that set off the whole train of events.
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Late last night I was watching Greek news and a middle age couple of a Greek man and a Belarussian woman appeared and told us, that they were travelling back to Belarus via Vilnius, due to lack of direct flights from /to Athens.
When they were out of the plane and their luggage was checked, they asked the Bellarussian Authorities not return to the aeroplane and were left behind with the permission of the security and captain too!
BTW they live in Minsk for more than 10 years. tiphat
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That'll be 2 of the 4 that Maria Zakharovna mentioned in the link I shared up thread.
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A small update.
https://www.facebook.com/maria.zakharova.167/posts/10226161554135017
It seems that the 4 Russian citizens who were claimed to be FSB (although mostly the acronym KGB was used) decided to get off the plane in Belarus rather than continue to Vilnius.
The Russian foreign ministry had been a tad concerned about the 'missing' passengers and had raised the matter with their counterparts in Belarus. Turns out there were no missing Russians as can be seen from Maria's post. The only Russian citizen is Pratasevich's girlfriend.
It seems that it was simply more convenient to travel back home from Minsk than Vilnius. That makes sense if your destination is Belarus rather than Lithuania.
The media narrative does seem to be imploding of its own accord. Belarus has set up an inquiry into the whole incident and will report shortly.
Late last night I was watching Greek news and a middle age couple of a Greek man and a Belarussian woman appeared and told us, that they were travelling back to Belarus via Vilnius, due to lack of direct flights from /to Athens.
When they were out of the plane and their luggage was checked, they asked the Bellarussian Authorities not return to the aeroplane and were left behind with the permission of the security and captain too!
BTW they live in Minsk for more than 10 years. tiphat
That'll be 2 of the 4 that Maria Zakharovna mentioned in the link I shared up thread.
I am under the impression that Russia was concerned for holders of Russian passports on the flight.
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It follows that the only genuine issue is the reason for him being in Belarus. And, as I have already noted, Occam's Razor suggests that the reason for him being there was not because the Belarusian authorities planned the sequence of events that took him to Minsk.
Perhaps there is a different reason for this entire event. R. Protasevich planned and executed the entire event, meaning an associate sent the 3 e.Mails.
From what little is known of his background, he seems somewhat compulsive and impetuous.
He has by default brought himself international recognition and with it clout and power. He might be in jail for some time but that will likely increase his home based popularity.
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Avhdb, I doubt that he did it, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out that a colleague or colleagues set him up. I can imagine that rivalry would make him a target. We k hi w that he was being given a lot of attention by the USA and EU. Its easy to imagine jealousy playing a role.
The wording of the email message was very specific. It gave unnecessary information that would've served to alert Belarusian law enforcement / intelligence that there was a potentially high value target on the plane and was timed such that Minsk would be the optimal choice for diversion. In addition, the option of proceeding to Vilnius was specifically ruled out. It was a clever email because not only did it do all those things but by associating Hamas, the timing made it such that anyone analysing the case afterward could easily see that it was a hoax. Yet, at the time, nobody could afford to treat it as such.
The guy had served in the Azov Battalion in Ukraine. He'd been wounded in action. He might be young, but he will have been trained in a very practical way about self-preservation. He'd not line himself up for capture by the Belarusian government.
Of course, if that's the case then there's going to be a lot of embarrassment and consequently anger in the corridors of power of many countries as they realise they've been played for fools again.
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Avhdb, The guy had served in the Azov Battalion in Ukraine. He'd been wounded in action. He might be young, but he will have been trained in a very practical way about self-preservation. He'd not line himself up for capture by the Belarusian government.
Can you provide a link to this? Bolded text.
Skimmed a New York Times article from yesterday and he seemed to be the one holding the hot dance card. As far as I can see before he was not really even on the radar.
I suspect something is amiss.
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Avhdb, The guy had served in the Azov Battalion in Ukraine. He'd been wounded in action. He might be young, but he will have been trained in a very practical way about self-preservation. He'd not line himself up for capture by the Belarusian government.
Can you provide a link to this? Bolded text.
Skimmed a New York Times article from yesterday and he seemed to be the one holding the hot dance card. As far as I can see before he was not really even on the radar.
I suspect something is amiss.
https://www.1tv.ru/n/407100
From 7 minutes onwards in the news item starts the "Minsk" incident. He is clearly marching along with some unsavory figures / groups there. Of course they can be "deepfakes" cause 1tv.ru but still food for thought.
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And now, Swiss email provider "proton mail" came forward that suggests the timing of the emails sent was doctored, the plane was warned by Minsk ATC 25 minutes BEFORE the email was sent!!!!
(aah right, those neutral swiss, neatly outside of EU etc.)
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Why don't I care about a small country in Europe which allegedly has a dictator for life?
Mainly because back here in the USA we don't have secure elections. We have a situation where the legitimate President of the USA who is Donald J. Trump, has been banned from social media for speaking truth to power.
We have a situation here in the USA where some truly nefarious and corrupt crooks can hand select some clown with Dementia and install him as "president" against the will of the American people.
Consequently I don't give a rats arse what the bought and paid for US and Western media say about this situation.
When I see much of the US media hung in a public square for pouring gasoline on incidents in order to cause even more rioting, just so they can profit from people watching "news" that is when I will be happy. And I especially want to see their controllers hung in a public square. :laugh:
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And now, Swiss email provider "proton mail" came forward that suggests the timing of the emails sent was doctored, the plane was warned by Minsk ATC 25 minutes BEFORE the email was sent!!!!
(aah right, those neutral swiss, neatly outside of EU etc.)
so Proton email dot com is not secure?
Which email is actually secure? Which one would you recommend?
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And now, Swiss email provider "proton mail" came forward that suggests the timing of the emails sent was doctored, the plane was warned by Minsk ATC 25 minutes BEFORE the email was sent!!!!
(aah right, those neutral swiss, neatly outside of EU etc.)
I suspect the actors and/or directors were using a satellite based system such as Iridium.
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Avhdb, The guy had served in the Azov Battalion in Ukraine. He'd been wounded in action. He might be young, but he will have been trained in a very practical way about self-preservation. He'd not line himself up for capture by the Belarusian government.
Can you provide a link to this? Bolded text.
https://on.rt.com/b8zn
[attachimg=1]
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Avhdb, I have seen the pictures, magazine cover and read an interview. All from different sources. To be honest, I don't have the time to retrace my steps to rediscover that which I came across while I was satisfying my own curiosity.
Here's a tidbit that came up right away that I had not seen yesterday: https://twitter.com/sashakots/status/1397532193103171589?s=20
Have a look on sites such as Moonofalabama.org the host there has done some good work and I am pretty sure that I clicked from his writeups.
The email timing may well be due to server time issues related to timezones. I see this quite often working with people around the world, not just with emails. It is easily checked because the same email was received in Vilnius and Athens. For example, if I have UK time set on my PC, as I sometimes do, then relative to Estonian time, emails received by me will show a time 2 hours behind my actual time at my location. The same applies to other message tools I use - interestingly, one of my major tools records the local time of the sender compared to mine. Very handy for working with people in different parts of the world.
If Proton mail do not keep logs, as I recall they claim to not do, then they'd be unlikely to be able to pronounce on the timing of emails for which they have no record.
Again, I'd apply occam's razor. If this was a planned intervention by Belarus, how likley is it that they'd be so foolish as to send an email that they rely upon to substantiate their case after the process of the intervention began?
As with other specious claims, one would have to assume actions and characteristics that are not congruent with what we already know.
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Avhdb, I have seen the pictures, magazine cover and read an interview. All from different sources. To be honest, I don't have the time to retrace my steps to rediscover that which I came across while I was satisfying my own curiosity.
Here's a tidbit that came up right away that I had not seen yesterday: https://twitter.com/sashakots/status/1397532193103171589?s=20
Have a look on sites such as Moonofalabama.org the host there has done some good work and I am pretty sure that I clicked from his writeups.
The email timing may well be due to server time issues related to timezones. I see this quite often working with people around the world, not just with emails. It is easily checked because the same email was received in Vilnius and Athens. For example, if I have UK time set on my PC, as I sometimes do, then relative to Estonian time, emails received by me will show a time 2 hours behind my actual time at my location. The same applies to other message tools I use - interestingly, one of my major tools records the local time of the sender compared to mine. Very handy for working with people in different parts of the world.
If Proton mail do not keep logs, as I recall they claim to not do, then they'd be unlikely to be able to pronounce on the timing of emails for which they have no record.
Again, I'd apply occam's razor. If this was a planned intervention by Belarus, how likley is it that they'd be so foolish as to send an email that they rely upon to substantiate their case after the process of the intervention began?
As with other specious claims, one would have to assume actions and characteristics that are not congruent with what we already know.
I did google translate on a few of the tweets from your link above. This one was very interesting.
Quote
"About Sofia Sapega, detained together with Protasevich. She leaked data on the security forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Belarus, which means let him sit. Everything is according to the law! Work Brothers!"
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Yes she was doxxing police officers and others. Not a very nice thing to do. Between the two of them they were inciting violence, planning operations and providing instructions on how to kill and injure the targets they supplied.
It is hard to imagine how they'd be free to carry out such actions in, for example, the United States or the UK.
But, of course, Belarus so they are painted as heroes.
One does not need to support the Belarus government to think that what those two were up to was wrong, if not evil.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-approves-air-france-lufthansa-routes-avoiding-belarus/ar-AAKw9bM?li=BBnb7Kz
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MOST OF THE STUFF ABOUT FAKE ELECTIONS IN THE US IS JUST FAKE NEWS. Believe what you want but that is the facts. The extreme right and the left will spend anything to convince people of this to motivate the useful fools. Foreign powers will help spread the news of this. Trump was not over popular in the USA on November 3,2020.
You have zero evidence there is election fraud in the Belarussian elections but you claim it happened. You have tons of evidence outside of and sitting in court of American election fraud yet you are blind. Belarussians could only wish they had the amount of access of information we do to prove the fraud in their elections.
I do not remember any USA president having six terms. The fact he is serving his six term and there are protest show there is fraud. There is a reason for term limits. Because it is too easy for a president to become too powerful and control the country rather than serve it. In controlling it they can control elections also. In Ukraine president had to be removed because that is what was happening there and they would been like Belarus. Protest there can not be successful because of Russian interference.
In the USA Biden will serve eight year or less. No more than two terms. He will likely lose control of both houses of congress in the near term if the republicans would stop worrying about Trump and move forward. It is very limited what he can do without congressional support. Run a normal conservatives candidate on a good platform and Biden will get replaced.
Over the last few decades republicans have been in power a little over half of the time. One lost and you complain the system is rigged. Biden does not control a secrete police who can control protesters like in Belarus. Obama wanted to run again and was put out of office whether he liked it or not. The system maybe less than perfect but for the most part it works as seen by our history of power transfer.
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MOST OF THE STUFF ABOUT FAKE ELECTIONS IN THE US IS JUST FAKE NEWS. Believe what you want but that is the facts. The extreme right and the left will spend anything to convince people of this to motivate the useful fools. Foreign powers will help spread the news of this. Trump was not over popular in the USA on November 3,2020.
You have zero evidence there is election fraud in the Belarussian elections but you claim it happened. You have tons of evidence outside of and sitting in court of American election fraud yet you are blind. Belarussians could only wish they had the amount of access of information we do to prove the fraud in their elections.
I do not remember any USA president having six terms. The fact he is serving his six term and there are protest show there is fraud. There is a reason for term limits. Because it is too easy for a president to become too powerful and control the country rather than serve it. In controlling it they can control elections also. In Ukraine president had to be removed because that is what was happening there and they would been like Belarus. Protest there can not be successful because of Russian interference.
In the USA Biden will serve eight year or less. No more than two terms. He will likely lose control of both houses of congress in the near term if the republicans would stop worrying about Trump and move forward. It is very limited what he can do without congressional support. Run a normal conservatives candidate on a good platform and Biden will get replaced.
Over the last few decades republicans have been in power a little over half of the time. One lost and you complain the system is rigged. Biden does not control a secrete police who can control protesters like in Belarus. Obama wanted to run again and was put out of office whether he liked it or not. The system maybe less than perfect but for the most part it works as seen by our history of power transfer.
While I am dyslexic, I can more or less stay on topic.
Yes there certainly was fraud in the United States during the last election, I will let a bunch of lawyers and judges sort that out. Likewise the sense I have in Belarus the nation would like to move Westward in orientation, the last couple of elections and the resulting crackdowns seem to suggest this reality.
As for the subject at hand the young man now in custody is noted in the article from ZeroHedge. While not a big fan of this source it does provide some information but little proof, besides what somewhat dubious image already posted. There are some problems with this image but I do not have access to the resources anymore to research this.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/lukashenko-lashes-out-after-bbc-others-admit-detained-activists-ukrainian-azov
Please try to stay on topic, it makes for a more readable forum in my opinion.
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Thanks for posting the link Av.
While I agree it is important that Western journalists should be more objective and report that the lad was in Azov battalion I am tired of the overuse of the term "nazi".
It's simply a way to try to silence thought and silence critical thinking.
It also harms the process for negotiation and peace between Russia and Ukraine.
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Thanks for posting the link Av.
While I agree it is important that Western journalists should be more objective and report that the lad was in Azov battalion I am tired of the overuse of the term "nazi".
It's simply a way to try to silence thought and silence critical thinking.
It also harms the process for negotiation and peace between Russia and Ukraine.
But thats azovs choice not ours.
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Searching for additional images, I came across the below regarding President A. Lukashenko
MINSK, Nov. 27, 1995 -- Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko defended Monday recent comments he made praising Adolf Hitler for his creation of a strong German state and comparing his own role to that of the Nazi leader. Lukashenko capped his refusal to retract his earlier statements by praising Soviet dictator Josef Stalin as another effective leader who brought order out of chaos. Answering criticism of his praise of Hitler in a recent interview with a German newspaper and of his own efforts to monopolize power in Belarus, Lukashenko said a strong executive is necessary when times are tough. 'Strengthening of power is unavoidable. When we wanted to consolidate the nation, let's say in the 30s, we united around a well- known person, no matter how we look at it,' he said of Stalin. Lukashenko's words in defense of Stalin did little to calm the ire raised by a recent radio broadcast of the controversial comments he made about Hitler in an interview with the German newspaper Handelsblatt. 'It took centuries to form the German order. Under Hitler this formation reached its highest point.'
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1995/11/27/Belarus-leader-defends-Hitler-praise/9348817448400/
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From one of our Sunday papers.
[attachimg=1]
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Both Stalin and Hitler enabled positive huge transformation in their respective countries. Objective truth. That's what Lukashenko was commenting on.
Is it necessary to lie in order to be acceptable to some people in the world?
I love Christmas Dinner. I love the turkey, stuffing, gravy. I enjoy the peas and roast potatoes. But I loathe sprouts and detest parsnips. However those latter two do not negate the earlier dinner items.
Leaders and governments around the world have emulated and improved upon measures that were enacted in Germany and to a lesser extent Russia. Of course, the rewriting of history and advancement of wokeness has advanced a lot since 1995. Worth remembering that among Lukashenko's audience back then, and still today, would have been a lot of people who admired Stalin and understood what Lukashenko was saying.
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Both Stalin and Hitler enabled positive huge transformation in their respective countries. Objective truth. That's what Lukashenko was commenting on.
Is it necessary to lie in order to be acceptable to some people in the world?
I love Christmas Dinner. I love the turkey, stuffing, gravy. I enjoy the peas and roast potatoes. But I loathe sprouts and detest parsnips. However those latter two do not negate the earlier dinner items.
Leaders and governments around the world have emulated and improved upon measures that were enacted in Germany and to a lesser extent Russia. Of course, the rewriting of history and advancement of wokeness has advanced a lot since 1995. Worth remembering that among Lukashenko's audience back then, and still today, would have been a lot of people who admired Stalin and understood what Lukashenko was saying.
Funny Cartoon!
I suspect like the proverbial turkey the victims of Stalin and Hitler would not agree with your assessment. For a great part they are innocent people like you turkey.
What is odd there is little praise for the leaders such as F. D. Roosevelt, Ch. de Gaulle and W. Churchill. While the three had flaws they did not kill millions on there own citizens.
For what it is worth I like both sprouts and parsnips! As well as turkey with gravy.
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Avhdb, I think you're missing the point. Let's try again.
Notwithstanding the death and misery that the United States has wrought upon the world, I still enjoy a bucket of KFC from time to time and have enjoyed many vacations in the USA.
Turkey and sprouts.
One might argue that the biggest difference between National Socialist rule in Germany and the past few decades of the USAian regime has been the degree to which Mr Hitler and his government concentrated their minds on killing their own people whereas the USAian model distributes its maleffects globally. Similarly with Mr Stalin.
The positive effects of all 3 governments, in their time are clear, they exist. In particular generations of Russians benefitted. That does not reduce the evil that occurred and still occurs and I'd not suggest otherwise. I was setting a context about the words of a 3rd party for people who probably have little understanding of the relevant history.
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Avhdb, I think you're missing the point. Let's try again.
Notwithstanding the death and misery that the United States has wrought upon the world, I still enjoy a bucket of KFC from time to time and have enjoyed many vacations in the USA.
Turkey and sprouts.
One might argue that the biggest difference between National Socialist rule in Germany and the past few decades of the USAian regime has been the degree to which Mr Hitler and his government concentrated their minds on killing their own people whereas the USAian model distributes its maleffects globally. Similarly with Mr Stalin.
The positive effects of all 3 governments, in their time are clear, they exist. In particular generations of Russians benefitted. That does not reduce the evil that occurred and still occurs and I'd not suggest otherwise. I was setting a context about the words of a 3rd party for people who probably have little understanding of the relevant history.
Let's try this again.
A. Hitler and J. Stalin were fundamentaly evil humans.
While the United States has at times acted poorly both on a national and international level it has done far more good than damage world wide.
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The USA and its leaders have over the course of many years built an investment in goodwill and integrity. That investment is being spent, very fast by people and a system that are evil.
Germany and Russia benefited and suffered from one man - who did many things that were good and advantageous for their countries but who also did very bad things. The USA suffered from s system that is evil and does bad things, largely outside the country, but increasingly within it.
Which is worse in terms of timescale and effect a bad man or a bad system.
I think we can both agree on which is the worse.
However, you're dancing around the point I was making which was simple, clear and true. Both of the people to whom Lukashenko referred did things that are worthy of admiration, that were admired and emulated. To try to deny that is to deny the reality of history in both the USA and the rest of the world. Lukashenko was commenting upon those things. There is no doubt about that. Would a USAian scriptwriter write that in a speech for a USAian president? Of course not, but Luka's audience has a different cultural background, a different understanding of history.
I should be able to say that building a national highway system that is still in use today, turning around the German economy by fundamentally altering the financial system of Germany, reducing huge levels of unemployment, increasing standards of living were all good things.
In Stalin's case, turning the Russian economy from a feudal agrarian economy to a modern industrial economy in the space of a decade it so was a huge achievement and praiseworthy. Giving millions of people homes with sanitation and electricity, again praiseworthy, giving individuals power and control over their lives that were impossible under the previous system, again to be remembered by the millions who benefited. Those were the pints to which Lukashenko was referring and the points that at the time he made his speech to which many refer in 1995, many people would know of at first or second hand.
Don't forget that at the time he made the speech, Stalin was remembered very positively by very many millions of people. Time alters context.
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The USA and its leaders have over the course of many years built an investment in goodwill and integrity. That investment is being spent, very fast by people and a system that are evil.
Germany and Russia benefited and suffered from one man - who did many things that were good and advantageous for their countries but who also did very bad things. The USA suffered from s system that is evil and does bad things, largely outside the country, but increasingly within it.
Which is worse in terms of timescale and effect a bad man or a bad system.
I think we can both agree on which is the worse.
However, you're dancing around the point I was making which was simple, clear and true. Both of the people to whom Lukashenko referred did things that are worthy of admiration, that were admired and emulated. To try to deny that is to deny the reality of history in both the USA and the rest of the world. Lukashenko was commenting upon those things. There is no doubt about that. Would a USAian scriptwriter write that in a speech for a USAian president? Of course not, but Luka's audience has a different cultural background, a different understanding of history.
I should be able to say that building a national highway system that is still in use today, turning around the German economy by fundamentally altering the financial system of Germany, reducing huge levels of unemployment, increasing standards of living were all good things.
In Stalin's case, turning the Russian economy from a feudal agrarian economy to a modern industrial economy in the space of a decade it so was a huge achievement and praiseworthy. Giving millions of people homes with sanitation and electricity, again praiseworthy, giving individuals power and control over their lives that were impossible under the previous system, again to be remembered by the millions who benefited. Those were the pints to which Lukashenko was referring and the points that at the time he made his speech to which many refer in 1995, many people would know of at first or second hand.
Don't forget that at the time he made the speech, Stalin was remembered very positively by very many millions of people. Time alters context.
In a broad sense we agree.
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Biden admin bans US flights to Belarus:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-06-29/us-to-move-to-restrict-travel-to-belarus-source
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Biden admin bans US flights to Belarus:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-06-29/us-to-move-to-restrict-travel-to-belarus-source
So Americans now cant go to Belarus, Cuba or North Korea. Where is all this freedom we hear so much about?
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Biden admin bans US flights to Belarus:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-06-29/us-to-move-to-restrict-travel-to-belarus-source
So Americans now cant go to Belarus, Cuba or North Korea. Where is all this freedom we hear so much about?
No, that is not what the article says. You can not purchase a ticket from an US air carrier for a flight to Belarus. Seems reasonable.
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Why does it seem reasonable?
It is a de facto ban as it relates to flights operated by other airlines which is extraterritorial law enforcement. And also it is on the do not travel list (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/belarus-travel-advisory.html).
The only way you are getting to Belarus from the US is using foreign carriers booked outside of the US and not part of a linked trip.
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Biden admin bans US flights to Belarus:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-06-29/us-to-move-to-restrict-travel-to-belarus-source
So Americans now cant go to Belarus, Cuba or North Korea. Where is all this freedom we hear so much about?
In Russia, Ukraine and Red Communist China now that the CoL Rothschild's economic, political and socialist colonization of the USA is complete.
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Why does it seem reasonable?
It is a de facto ban as it relates to flights operated by other airlines which is extraterritorial law enforcement. And also it is on the do not travel list (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/belarus-travel-advisory.html).
The only way you are getting to Belarus from the US is using foreign carriers booked outside of the US and not part of a linked trip.
Why do you care???? If your from the USA why not go some place where they like people from the USA? It is easy to do and a lot more fun. The crack down in Belarus make it more dangerous for us. Still if you want to go bad enough it is not a problem. Just pay a few extra dollars.
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You see it is dangerous for us to go there. Someone will claim we are trying to over throw the government. Most people on this site would believe them. Better just to not go if you re from the USA!!! Do not have direct flights with USA planes and pilots. Some false flag weapons might be smuggled in or something to give them some reason to hold everyone. Not safe to go there for us. I know people may come and go with no problem but you can not tell when problem might start. If only a few people from the USA go there on non USA carriers, it is much less likely there will be a problem.
President Alexander Lukashenko says it is part of an attempt by outside powers to overthrow government.
He alleged the weapons were being shipped to terrorist cells funded by Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and the US.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belarus-closes-border-to-ukraine-over-coup-claim/ar-AALIp7I?ocid=msedgntp
Fat chance of a coup in Belarus. Russia would show up and put him back in power or someone even more pro Russian if he were not alive.
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You see it is dangerous for us to go there. Someone will claim we are trying to over throw the government. Most people on this site would believe them. Better just to not go if you re from the USA!!! Do not have direct flights with USA planes and pilots. Some false flag weapons might be smuggled in or something to give them some reason to hold everyone. Not safe to go there for us. I know people may come and go with no problem but you can not tell when problem might start. If only a few people from the USA go there on non USA carriers, it is much less likely there will be a problem.
President Alexander Lukashenko says it is part of an attempt by outside powers to overthrow government.
He alleged the weapons were being shipped to terrorist cells funded by Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and the US.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/belarus-closes-border-to-ukraine-over-coup-claim/ar-AALIp7I?ocid=msedgntp
Fat chance of a coup in Belarus. Russia would show up and put him back in power or someone even more pro Russian if he were not alive.
Good for Russia.
The USA goes around the world and tries to overthrow governments and then install puppets, why should Russia play the game any differently? Especially right there next to Russia.
[Insults removed], you would know that the USA overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine and installed puppets, in fact Nuland and others were caught on the phone bragging about it.
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Why does it seem reasonable?
It is a de facto ban as it relates to flights operated by other airlines which is extraterritorial law enforcement. And also it is on the do not travel list (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/belarus-travel-advisory.html).
The only way you are getting to Belarus from the US is using foreign carriers booked outside of the US and not part of a linked trip.
I agree with Manny. Not only those three, its also unclear if Americans are allowed to travel to Sudan. The sanctions were supposedly lifted recently. And there are dozens of other countries where Americans are technically allowed to go but then expect to be treated like a terrorist upon arrival back to the USA. Thats not the definition of being free.
Belarus is extremely safe, has excellent infrastructure, and the economy has improved by leaps and bounds under Lukashenko. There's no graffiti, no litter, minimal crime, you dont see gays and trans out in the open, no migrants. Its really a great place. And much better place than western Europe to raise a family.
We dont really see Belarusian people trying to escape from their country now do we? We don't see Belarusian women with significantly older men trying to escape to anywhere else. It's obviously a place with many advantages.
The opposition woman, I think her name is Svetlana, is not what Belarus needs. There's something about her that doesnt seem right. Also she claims shes in politics for her husband which we all know is a lie.
My friend Natalia from Belarus recently sent me a message telling me my only option left to find a Slavic wife is Ukraine. It's very sad how the US wants to control people more and more without a valid reason.
Considering the direction Europe and America have been taking, Belarus is a breath of fresh air.