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Information & Chat => Health, Fitness, Diet and Lifestyle => Topic started by: Manny on January 22, 2020, 01:45:10 AM

Title: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 22, 2020, 01:45:10 AM
Anyone who has been watching the news the last few days will know about the Coronavirus that may have originated in Wuhan, China. Cases are already reported in South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Taiwan and the US.

China is admitting 440 cases today, but right now is the Chinese New Year holiday week where every man and his dog is travelling and the Chinese airports and stations are full to the gunwales, so it is going to get much worse.

This morning North Korea closed its borders to foreigners to keep it out.

The suspicion is the Chinese are under reporting it as they did with the SARS.

Some media coverage here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10784540/coronavirus-wuhan-china-death/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Omega1982 on January 22, 2020, 02:10:51 AM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 22, 2020, 03:22:18 AM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night.

The media says one case in the US, but JFK has flights from Wuhan it seems so it's bound to be a problem there in the near future. I wonder how long the incubation period is.

I wonder how long it will take to develop a vaccine..........
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 22, 2020, 03:43:20 AM
I remember Corona. it was made near to where I grew up. Do any other Britons remember the Corona man delivering bottles of fizzy pop from his white electric van?

My granny always had Corona in her kitchen for her favourite grandkids who had been told by their mother that they didn't like fizzy drinks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 22, 2020, 07:51:33 AM
I remember Corona. it was made near to where I grew up. Do any other Britons remember the Corona man delivering bottles of fizzy pop from his white electric van?

My granny always had Corona in her kitchen for her favourite grandkids who had been told by their mother that they didn't like fizzy drinks.
Andrew I sort (and hope) that the Corona of North America is not what your granny served the kids. Of course a lime can hide a multitude of sins including piss poor beer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 22, 2020, 08:02:09 AM
While I am aware that USAian beer tends toward the fizzy pop end of a fizzy pop to quality beer spectrum, I can assure you that Corona soft drinks were not the same as the beer sold in long neck bottles.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: B.B. on January 22, 2020, 08:22:58 AM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night.

The media says one case in the US, but JFK has flights from Wuhan it seems so it's bound to be a problem there in the near future. I wonder how long the incubation period is.

I wonder how long it will take to develop a vaccine..........

Flying out of JFK on Saturday.  I will let you know if I get "Space AIDS" or whatever.

B/B
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 22, 2020, 09:34:33 AM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night.

The media says one case in the US, but JFK has flights from Wuhan it seems so it's bound to be a problem there in the near future. I wonder how long the incubation period is.

I wonder how long it will take to develop a vaccine..........

Flying out of JFK on Saturday.  I will let you know if I get "Space AIDS" or whatever.

B/B

I've took to wearing the masks on Chinese planes and in very crowded spaces. I always have anti bac gel with me too. I'd be using both at JFK now.

I remember Corona. it was made near to where I grew up. Do any other Britons remember the Corona man delivering bottles of fizzy pop from his white electric van?

We had a small grocery store when I was a kid, we used to sell it. As a kid I'd be scouring the streets for old Corona bottles as they were worth 5p each. :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on January 22, 2020, 09:58:23 AM
I remember Corona. it was made near to where I grew up. Do any other Britons remember the Corona man delivering bottles of fizzy pop from his white electric van?

My granny always had Corona in her kitchen for her favourite grandkids who had been told by their mother that they didn't like fizzy drinks.

That seems like so loooong  ago, Corona delivering fizzy drinks to your door. Brings back memories  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 22, 2020, 11:32:39 AM
I remember Corona. it was made near to where I grew up. Do any other Britons remember the Corona man delivering bottles of fizzy pop from his white electric van?

My granny always had Corona in her kitchen for her favourite grandkids who had been told by their mother that they didn't like fizzy drinks.

That seems like so loooong  ago, Corona delivering fizzy drinks to your door. Brings back memories  :)

Was there not a thread about Amazon levering direct tot your door?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 22, 2020, 11:33:08 AM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night.

The media says one case in the US, but JFK has flights from Wuhan it seems so it's bound to be a problem there in the near future. I wonder how long the incubation period is.

I wonder how long it will take to develop a vaccine..........

He flew into Seattle and he’s at a hospital in Everett, WA. Came from Wuhan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on January 22, 2020, 04:55:10 PM
Quote
“This [2019-nCoV’s death rate] could be 2%, similar to Spanish flu,”

https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-coronavirus-has-the-same-death-rate-as-the-spanish-flu-pandemic-that-killed-50-m-people-151608803.html
 
 :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 23, 2020, 02:40:30 AM

That seems like so loooong  ago, Corona delivering fizzy drinks to your door. Brings back memories  :)

It was looooong ago! Soon there will be nobody alive who remembers it!
Gone just like the milkman and the Landers vans that delivered bread and sometimes cakes to our doors!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 23, 2020, 02:53:08 AM
Quote
“This [2019-nCoV’s death rate] could be 2%, similar to Spanish flu,”

https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-coronavirus-has-the-same-death-rate-as-the-spanish-flu-pandemic-that-killed-50-m-people-151608803.html
 
 :GRAVE:

Seems to be spreading in China. Already it's where I go there.  :scared0005:

(https://i.ibb.co/LPxvZPT/qqw.jpg)

Looks like my April jolly might be off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on January 23, 2020, 03:46:16 AM
Quote
“This [2019-nCoV’s death rate] could be 2%, similar to Spanish flu,”

https://news.yahoo.com/chinas-coronavirus-has-the-same-death-rate-as-the-spanish-flu-pandemic-that-killed-50-m-people-151608803.html
 
 :GRAVE:

Seems to be spreading in China. Already it's where I go there.  :scared0005:

(https://i.ibb.co/LPxvZPT/qqw.jpg)

Looks like my April jolly might be off.
The sensible thing to do. I doubt a mask would be that effective in a confined space like an aircraft cabin at keeping those bugs at bay.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 23, 2020, 05:25:04 AM
masks are no good, it is just psychological. Viruses are so small that no mask can protect from airborne viruses.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on January 23, 2020, 06:01:06 AM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night.

The media says one case in the US, but JFK has flights from Wuhan it seems so it's bound to be a problem there in the near future. I wonder how long the incubation period is.

I wonder how long it will take to develop a vaccine..........

Wouldn't it be better if they cannot make a vaccine ? It is what the planet really needs some kind of big clrearout.. suits me fine half the population gone as long as it doesn't come to St Petersburg,, :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on January 24, 2020, 05:02:47 PM
Manny I work in the healthcare industry and I got the first call Sunday night.

The media says one case in the US, but JFK has flights from Wuhan it seems so it's bound to be a problem there in the near future. I wonder how long the incubation period is.

I wonder how long it will take to develop a vaccine..........

Wouldn't it be better if they cannot make a vaccine ? It is what the planet really needs some kind of big clrearout.. suits me fine half the population gone as long as it doesn't come to St Petersburg,, :laugh:

Shades of Ebenezer Scrooge.   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle: (:)  :GRAVE:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 24, 2020, 05:53:05 PM
I've took to wearing the masks on Chinese planes and in very crowded spaces. I always have anti bac gel with me too. I'd be using both at JFK now.


Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

Seems like the past couple of decades, most of the superbugs in humans and birds that can kill large portions of humanity are coming out of China. Whatever they are doing in test labs, they need better containment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 24, 2020, 07:09:13 PM

It's in Europe now. France has 3 people infected with the virus and all 3 were in China. SARS killed almost 800. Hope they get this new virus contained and discover a vaccine and antiviral medicine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-deaths-surge-in-china-europe-finds-first-cases/ar-BBZiNWJ?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on January 25, 2020, 02:43:38 PM

It's in Europe now. France has 3 people infected with the virus and all 3 were in China. SARS killed almost 800. Hope they get this new virus contained and discover a vaccine and antiviral medicine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-deaths-surge-in-china-europe-finds-first-cases/ar-BBZiNWJ?ocid=spartanntp

NL also has 1 case of it, so far the victim seems to recover nicely.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2020, 03:38:55 PM

It's in Europe now. France has 3 people infected with the virus and all 3 were in China. SARS killed almost 800. Hope they get this new virus contained and discover a vaccine and antiviral medicine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-deaths-surge-in-china-europe-finds-first-cases/ar-BBZiNWJ?ocid=spartanntp

NL also has 1 case of it, so far the victim seems to recover nicely.

That's good news. Not everybody will die from it. So far there's about 1400 confirmed cases and just over 40 deaths if China's not underreporting so about 1 out of every 35 people are dying from it. Could be worse odds if many of those people currently infected don't make it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on January 26, 2020, 02:43:29 AM
Canada has its first reported case in Toronto.
man in his 50's, currently stable and health authority
doing more tests and have isolated him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 26, 2020, 05:11:53 AM
So the Chinese are building a hospital in ten days: https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/24/china-is-building-1000-bed-hospital-in-10-days-for-coronavirus-patients-12114833/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on January 26, 2020, 07:45:29 AM
So the Chinese are building a hospital in ten days: https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/24/china-is-building-1000-bed-hospital-in-10-days-for-coronavirus-patients-12114833/
Has taken 7 years for politicians to decide we need one.
like take another 10 years to build one. lol.
funny but  not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 26, 2020, 03:18:07 PM

Hospital will probably be a bunch of big canvas tent buildings connected together. 10 day construction is not enough time to do a concrete or wood building.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 26, 2020, 05:07:03 PM

Hospital will probably be a bunch of big canvas tent buildings connected together. 10 day construction is not enough time to do a concrete or wood building.

If you read the linked article you'd know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on January 26, 2020, 05:25:29 PM
 Yeah, they said they are bringing a bunch of prefabbed buildings in. Pretty much all they have to do is level off an area and dropped them off and link them together. I can see it being doable in 10 days. They set up work camps out in the wilderness up here in Canada like that all the time
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 26, 2020, 07:27:20 PM

Hospital will probably be a bunch of big canvas tent buildings connected together. 10 day construction is not enough time to do a concrete or wood building.

If you read the linked article you'd know.

The person who wrote the article probably doesn't know about half the things he wrote. He called excavators "diggers" and he said a huge hospital will be built. It's not going to be a tall building, just one story.

Yeah, they said they are bringing a bunch of prefabbed buildings in. Pretty much all they have to do is level off an area and dropped them off and link them together. I can see it being doable in 10 days. They set up work camps out in the wilderness up here in Canada like that all the time

Prefab buildings are doable. Truck in prefabbed walls or even mobile homes. I watch the video and photos after Manny convinced me to take a look. It's raining and muddy. Hard to build on mud. There's no water, sewer, gas, or storm pipes being laid in the ground. Rain water coming off the roofs will flood the area. Utilities will have to be above ground using water tanks, portable generators and bathrooms.

The Chinese army should have mobile hospitals that are quick to set up. They can fly those shelters in and set them up quick.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on January 26, 2020, 11:01:18 PM
Waddya made of sugar Billy? Scared of a little drizzle? Lol  That's not muddy there, look on the video at about the 1 minute mark and you will see the trackhoes dump dirt out of their buckets and it's pouring out, not coming out in clumps like muddy dirt would do. And before that in the video they show dump trucks coming in one area and dumping a lighter colored soil for bulldozers to spread out.  probably a sand/gravel mix if I were to guess. pack that down and that would stop the site from getting muddy.

 And the portable units  here have self contained sewer systems for each building and fresh water tanks just like RV's would have so all you need are trucks to come in and extract or add to them. Gas is taken care of with propane tanks. No need to plumb any of that in. Hook them up to a generator and you are set to go. you want bathrooms? get one unit that is all toilet stalls. want offices? get a unit with just offices. Want just rooms for beds they make those too, and a mix of anything of those you want. Something quick and easy to set up and take away once you are done with them. With all the oilfield and mining activity in the middle of nowhere around here these units are quite common and I'm sure China would have the same type if units there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 26, 2020, 11:57:27 PM
Waddya made of sugar Billy? Scared of a little drizzle? Lol  That's not muddy there, look on the video at about the 1 minute mark and you will see the trackhoes dump dirt out of their buckets and it's pouring out, not coming out in clumps like muddy dirt would do.


Yeah I'm scared of rain. I do earthwork and utilities for a living. Rain turns good dirt into bad. It liquifies it and although it doesn't look like soup, if it's over optimum on moisture content, you can't compact it into a solid and build on it. Working in rain gets very expensive since liquified dirt has to be removed off the site or takes weeks to dry up. Costs go up, production goes down.

I seen photos where the road is wet and a guy is holding an umbrella. Being winter the ground is already saturated.  It's better to load the dirt with an excavator and truck it to it's destination. The excavators that are bailing back the dirt have to do so because wheeled vehicles can't travel through mud. Ideally they need to get rid of most of those excavators and use more dozers since dozers are better to move dirt long distances over excavators. Articulated off road trucks and scrapers are great for moving dirt long distances too but they have wheels and aren't being used which tells me it's to slippery for wheeled vehicles.

With what they have, it's best to have the dozers make a road or two down the middle of that unsuitable soil and top the road off with gravel. Then have the dump trucks drive down the road and get loaded by the excavators. Better to touch the dirt once and get it off the job than throw it around 100 times to get it off the job.

And the portable units  here have self contained sewer systems for each building and fresh water tanks just like RV's would have so all you need are trucks to come in and extract or add to them. Gas is taken care of with propane tanks. No need to plumb any of that in. Hook them up to a generator and you are set to go. you want bathrooms? get one unit that is all toilet stalls. want offices? get a unit with just offices. Want just rooms for beds they make those too, and a mix of anything of those you want. Something quick and easy to set up and take away once you are done with them. With all the oilfield and mining activity in the middle of nowhere around here these units are quite common and I'm sure China would have the same type if units there.

China has an army of people to move sewer, water, and gas liters at a time. Also move diesel to fill up the generators. Overall costs isn't going to be too bad since the government probably isn't going to pay them much but they'll have great medical coverage should they pick up a virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on January 27, 2020, 12:29:44 AM
 I get what you're saying about wet conditions but like I said the way the dirt is pouring out of the trackhoe buckets it can't be too wet. If damp it would be falling out in clumps or if saturated it would be like mud pouring out. its not doing either of those. If it can pour out in a fine texture like that you should be able to drive a wheeled unit on to that site. It doesn't look to me like they are actually removing any dirt there, just moving it around like they are trying to level it off and have the dozers in between to smooth it out. But it's hard to say exactly what they are doing there with only a couple minutes of video. The only dump truck action I saw was them bringing that light colored soil in that the dozers are leveling off in those other couple areas on the edge of the site, not taking any away. I agree with you though about having more dozers there instead, it would make things quicker. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 27, 2020, 07:04:14 AM
China has extended the new year holiday. Most firms and shops have been told to stay closed till February 3rd. People have been told to stay home too.

Typical Chinese, I just saw on WeChat someone I know in Guangzhou posted a photo of the local Starbucks heaving with people.  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 27, 2020, 07:09:55 AM
China has extended the new year holiday. Most firms and shops have been told to stay closed till February 3rd. People have been told to stay home too.

Typical Chinese, I just saw on WeChat someone I know in Guangzhou posted a photo of the local Starbucks heaving with people.  (:)


SC is on her way to Thailand and lots of Chinese who arrived just before the travel restrictions

I moved her from a Condo - where Chinese will be there in throngs -  to a house on her own ....   I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 27, 2020, 08:50:27 AM
I get what you're saying about wet conditions but like I said the way the dirt is pouring out of the trackhoe buckets it can't be too wet. If damp it would be falling out in clumps or if saturated it would be like mud pouring out. its not doing either of those. If it can pour out in a fine texture like that you should be able to drive a wheeled unit on to that site. It doesn't look to me like they are actually removing any dirt there, just moving it around like they are trying to level it off and have the dozers in between to smooth it out. But it's hard to say exactly what they are doing there with only a couple minutes of video. The only dump truck action I saw was them bringing that light colored soil in that the dozers are leveling off in those other couple areas on the edge of the site, not taking any away. I agree with you though about having more dozers there instead, it would make things quicker.

It could be the excavator is digging into a high spot where dry dirt is located under the upper layer of dirt that's been saturated by winter rain. If the dirt is dry, wheeled construction equipment can be used which gets thing done faster. If the dirt is too wet, tracked vehicles need to be used, the wet dirt needs to be removed, hauled off or set aside before placing down a gravel pad. Also if the dirt on top is topsoil or have too many organics in it which is highly likely based of the color, even if dry, it's not structural material and shouldn't be built on. Hopefully the Chinese put in a time lapse camera so we can see the process from the beginning to the end.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 27, 2020, 10:58:57 AM
I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Chinese generally dont do swimming or sun. They sit in the shade by the pool prodding their phones mostly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 27, 2020, 12:52:41 PM

Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

Seems like the past couple of decades, most of the superbugs in humans and birds that can kill large portions of humanity are coming out of China. Whatever they are doing in test labs, they need better containment.

NO, BillyB ..

Masks are only effective, if changed regularly and worn correctly

Useless, if on a plane on a long haul flight





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on January 27, 2020, 05:48:52 PM
China has extended the new year holiday. Most firms and shops have been told to stay closed till February 3rd. People have been told to stay home too.

Typical Chinese, I just saw on WeChat someone I know in Guangzhou posted a photo of the local Starbucks heaving with people.  (:)


SC is on her way to Thailand and lots of Chinese who arrived just before the travel restrictions

I moved her from a Condo - where Chinese will be there in throngs -  to a house on her own ....   I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Perhaps to visit the Buddhist temples in places like Bangkok and Chiang Mai? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on January 27, 2020, 09:20:18 PM
https://twitter.com/evilgenius_187/status/1221979022818713601/photo/1

Geometric contagion projections twice the RO of the 1918 Flu and of the black plague..

https://www.infowars.com/wuhan-coronavirus-update-44000-now-infected-warn-university-of-hong-kong-researchers/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 27, 2020, 09:47:35 PM

International companies in are closing and bringing expats back home. By government order, casino staff must wear masks and scan temperature on guests. The only good thing that will come out of this is less snakes will be eaten.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/honda-evacuates-starbucks-stores-shut-virus-impact-on-business/ar-BBZm23Q?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on January 28, 2020, 04:19:31 AM
We stopped taking registrations from China as a precautionary measure and any Chinese members must now wear a mask whilst chatting, failing to do so will result in a suspension.

Some may say it is a little harsh but I have read that it can be transmitted electronically  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 28, 2020, 04:40:37 AM
It does not matter what the conditions are. They need to get the thing made. It does not have to be perfect, it does not have to last. It does have to be ready to treat possibly thousands of people very quickly
IIRC it will have 1000 beds when opened. That's a lot. A bit of mud isn't what these guys are thinking about right now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 28, 2020, 04:43:20 AM

Perhaps to visit the Buddhist temples in places like Bangkok and Chiang Mai?

Nope.. the world's  largest wooden temple is close by ... they seem to favour hotels inland  - away from the sea ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 08:28:18 AM

A bit of mud isn't what these guys are thinking about right now.


The guys that built the Leaning Tower of Pisa didn't think about what building on non structural material will do to their structure. The Chinese don't want to make the news that their building is sinking and cracking and is a danger to the people they are trying to save.

Mud has to be removed to build a structure and improve the speed of the rest of the construction that has to happen. Can't bring in cement and other delivery trucks to build the building until the mud is out of the way and they have a solid surface to drive on. The Chinese probably reads this forum. They taken my advice to get rid of most excavators and bring in more dozers and trucks to move dirt. Time lapse video below also show them placing vapor barrier down, reinforcement bar and pouring a slab about 18 inches or close to 40cm thick. That slab is thick and will be strong enough to support walls since excavations for footings didn't happen.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on January 28, 2020, 10:06:19 AM
I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Chinese generally dont do swimming or sun. They sit in the shade by the pool prodding their phones mostly.

Could they be doing the same as the Japanese do when in Thailand? :party0011:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 28, 2020, 11:55:51 AM
Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.

Given what you've written before, I'd bet lots of imaginary Internet pounds that you do the same in your work and life.

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 28, 2020, 12:44:10 PM
I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Chinese generally dont do swimming or sun. They sit in the shade by the pool prodding their phones mostly.

Could they be doing the same as the Japanese do when in Thailand? :party0011:

What's that? Instagramming photos of food while holding up two fingers in a V sign?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.


We have Andrew here who is an expert in best construction practices and who has a complete understanding of the situation and the clients needs which is a need for a temporary building that may last a few weeks or months. Have you actually talked to the authorities and medical experts in China to understand the situation and their needs or are you making stuff up....again?

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.


More BS...again. You have no idea when the epidemic will end. You have no idea how long the hospital will be needed to treat those who were infected. You have no idea if the victims medical problems from this virus will last for years or for life. You have no idea when or if a vaccine and/or anti viral medicine will be discovered. Nobody knows when this will end...but you want people to believe you know a temporary building is need for only a few months. The hospital built quickly in 2003 for SARS was needed for years after the virus broke out and was finally demoed in 2010.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-03/28/content_12234394.htm

That reinforced concrete slab they poured on compacted imported structural fill can last 1000 years. The Chinese aren't going cheap on the foundation for the hospital.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 12:49:15 PM

Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.


We have Andrew here who is an expert in best construction practices and who has a complete understanding of the situation and the clients needs which is a need for a temporary building that may last a few weeks or months. Have you actually talked to the authorities and medical experts in China to understand the situation and their needs or are you making stuff up....again?

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.


More BS...again. You have no idea when the epidemic will end. You have no idea how long the hospital will be needed to treat those who are infected. You have no idea if the victims medical problems from this virus will last for years or for life. You have no idea when or if a vaccine and/or anti viral medicine will be discovered. Nobody knows when this will end...but you want people to believe you know a temporary building is need for only a few months. The hospital built quickly in 2003 for SARS was needed for years after the virus broke out and was finally demoed in 2010.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-03/28/content_12234394.htm

That reinforced concrete slab they poured on compacted imported structural fill can last 1000 years. The Chinese aren't going cheap on the foundation for the hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 28, 2020, 01:32:13 PM
Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read.

Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work.

For your education and to give context, at the end of WW1we had a global pandemic of Spanish flu. It lasted globally for almost 3 years but only a few weeks in any single area (some areas were revisited by subsequent waves that may not have been the same disease given that survivors gained immunity).

China has competent epidemiologists and planners. They are not planning permanent buildings for a very good reason - they know it isn't necessary but they also know they need to use temporary prefabricated buildings to meet immediate needs.

So you honestly, hand on heart, think that anyone gives two hoots about 'best practice' in this situation? There's an epidemic going on. Hospital beds and treatment resources are needed last week.

In life and business we need to be able to understand challenges well enough to be able to set priorities. You get bogged down in irrelevancies based upon poor knowledge and inability to see a larger picture.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 28, 2020, 02:30:07 PM
Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.


We have Andrew here who is an expert in best construction practices and who has a complete understanding of the situation and the clients needs which is a need for a temporary building that may last a few weeks or months. Have you actually talked to the authorities and medical experts in China to understand the situation and their needs or are you making stuff up....again?

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.


More BS...again. You have no idea when the epidemic will end. You have no idea how long the hospital will be needed to treat those who were infected. You have no idea if the victims medical problems from this virus will last for years or for life. You have no idea when or if a vaccine and/or anti viral medicine will be discovered. Nobody knows when this will end...but you want people to believe you know a temporary building is need for only a few months. The hospital built quickly in 2003 for SARS was needed for years after the virus broke out and was finally demoed in 2010.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-03/28/content_12234394.htm

That reinforced concrete slab they poured on compacted imported structural fill can last 1000 years. The Chinese aren't going cheap on the foundation for the hospital.

I’m in agreement with Billy here. He has the experience and knowledge about the subject. No disrespect intended towards Andrew but I also agree Andy is just guessing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 02:34:20 PM
Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read.


I did read. You trust everything a journalist says? The journalist called excavators "diggers" and said there were 35 diggers on site but posted a photo of 50 excavators on site. So much for investigative journalism.

Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work.


Is that what you read? Can you show me where you read that? I don't think there is an expert in the world that would say what you just said. Nobody can make a promise this virus will be eradicated in a few months.

Just today I read over 100 has died and over 4000 is infected. The numbers continue to go up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 28, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Guys, do the reading. I know, I know, learning hurts and it is for nerds and everything, but it is a useful lifelong skill.

When you learn a little you discover that epidemics burn out, they do not last for very long - even the worst of them work in the same way.

I do not need to be 'an expert' in mud to know that the Chinese want to build a big hospital - fast. All I need to do is read what they have already told us.

So, to, once again, ask Billy a question that he obviously hasn't got his head around: do you really, honestly, think that the Chinese are prioritising optimal site conditions over the need to rapidly get the prefabricated hospital units in place?

As a corollary, does Billy REALLY think that this temporary hospital, built on muddy land, from prefab units is destined to last for as long as the leaning Tower of Pisa? An edifice with which he was stupid enough to draw a comparison.

This shouldn't be tough stuff, although I can see that for some of you it obviously is. The education system through which you passed clearly failed you very badly.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
do you really, honestly, think that the Chinese are prioritising optimal site conditions over the need to rapidly get the prefabricated hospital units in place?


Yes, they are creating optimal site conditions. Watch the video I provided. The Chinese got rid of non structural fill and imported structural fill and poured a reinforced concrete slab. They created a site where pump trucks, cement trucks, delivery trucks and cranes can get close to the slab and set prefab walls. Without getting mud out of the way, the prefab walls would have to be carried by hand through the mud which would extend the time they could complete the project. You seem to think the fastest way to build a building is to ignore the earthwork that happens before the foundation. Where did you read that at?

I criticized what the methods they used the first day based off the early photos and videos but after watching the time lapse video I provided, they now got construction experts managing the project. If you don't trust your eyes when watching the video, you can continue believing everything written is true and promote reading. Some here may take your advice and become as smart as you. I've dealt with book smart college kids looking for jobs. I'll tell them they're an expert in nothing because they haven't even put into practice anything they learned from a book.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on January 28, 2020, 06:03:39 PM

International companies in are closing and bringing expats back home. By government order, casino staff must wear masks and scan temperature on guests. The only good thing that will come out of this is less snakes will be eaten.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/honda-evacuates-starbucks-stores-shut-virus-impact-on-business/ar-BBZm23Q?ocid=spartanntp

Another good thing is that there are no traffic jams and crowded streets. CO2 output will also be reduced.  :thumbsup:

https://gulfnews.com/photos/news/wuhan-resembles-a-ghost-town-due-to-coronavirus-outbreak-1.1580202372820
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 28, 2020, 06:43:35 PM
Guys, do the reading. I know, I know, learning hurts and it is for nerds and everything, but it is a useful lifelong skill.

When you learn a little you discover that epidemics burn out, they do not last for very long - even the worst of them work in the same way.

I do not need to be 'an expert' in mud to know that the Chinese want to build a big hospital - fast. All I need to do is read what they have already told us.

So, to, once again, ask Billy a question that he obviously hasn't got his head around: do you really, honestly, think that the Chinese are prioritising optimal site conditions over the need to rapidly get the prefabricated hospital units in place?

As a corollary, does Billy REALLY think that this temporary hospital, built on muddy land, from prefab units is destined to last for as long as the leaning Tower of Pisa? An edifice with which he was stupid enough to draw a comparison.

This shouldn't be tough stuff, although I can see that for some of you it obviously is. The education system through which you passed clearly failed you very badly.

Now that you’ve shown your lack of knowledge and inability to read and grasp what Billy wrote, I suggest you read it again. Perhaps you need to read some things two or three times until you “get it”.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on January 28, 2020, 08:37:22 PM
Latest reports from Hong Kong are MDs terrified of treating CoV20 patients (Real estimates now exceed 100,000+ infected and climbing geometrically) as they have run out of HazMat safety gear and masks which are nearly 100% manufactured in the PRC - Great move by several previous POTUS admins transferring the entire industrial manufacturing bases of vital healthcare consumables to Communist Freaking Red China along with the rest of our 70,000 factories industrial manufacturing base...


(https://i.postimg.cc/k928Qbpx/c3.png)

Another example of the Curse of Trump in operation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 09:20:38 PM
(Real estimates now exceed 100,000+ infected and climbing geometrically)


If that number is true, then this sh!t is getting out of control. The hospitals being built aren't enough to isolate those infected. China may have to get the military involved to quarantine entire cities and banning travel until a cure is found.

I don't know who came up with 100,000 but we have to assume China is taking the proper steps necessary and creating hospitals for only a few thousand infected because it's adequate for the situation they're facing. They are only hurting themselves if they aren't revealing the magnitude of the outbreak.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2020, 09:30:18 PM
China has locked down more than 15 cities quarantining a population of more than 50 million people. 1000 Americans stuck in Wuhan

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/china-coronavirus-outbreak-us-plans-wuhan-evacuation-death-toll-number-cases-rises-today-2020-01-28/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 29, 2020, 01:44:28 PM
Spoke with my daughter today, she says in Munich where she is working there are 5 confirmed cases of Corona Virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on January 29, 2020, 02:20:43 PM
Spoke with my daughter today, she says in Munich where she is working there are 5 confirmed cases of Corona Virus.

Yikes!

I hear that they're trying to change the name of this virus to 'kung flu'  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 29, 2020, 02:29:55 PM
Spoke with my daughter today, she says in Munich where she is working there are 5 confirmed cases of Corona Virus.

One of the Germans didn't even go to China but acquired the virus from someone who just came back from China.

Big Pharma is racing to find something to beat the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on January 29, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
This may be putting a Garden Hose to a Raging Bush Fire... what with the Geometric progression in China infections and deaths.

Coronavirus update: Vaccine expected in Phase 1 trial within months, WHO to reconvene on Thursday
By Jaimy Lee
Published: Jan 29, 2020 1:40 p.m. ET

https://www.marke*snip*ch.com/story/coronavirus-update-vaccine-expected-in-phase-1-trial-within-months-who-to-reconvene-on-thursday-2020-01-29?mod=home-page

note site name is market watch one word not marke snip - the Site auto censor does not approve of the twaat letter sequence...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on January 29, 2020, 04:33:46 PM
The thing that is really worrisome is that the infected person does not show symptoms until much later from the time when the virus got in your body.  So many "healthy" people are carriers.

The vaccine companies say that a drug will not be available until a few months from now.  Some pharmacy stocks are UP.   tiphat

No T-W-A-T allowed here.   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 30, 2020, 01:12:28 PM

The World Health Organization is declaring a global emergency. Person to person transfer has happened in America and in Europe. 170 dead and almost 8000 infected. Does anybody know of any case where a person who's been infected made a full recovery or is it expected they'll be sick for the rest of their life until a cure is invented or their immune system figures out how to beat the virus?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 30, 2020, 01:17:49 PM
Does anybody know of any case where a person who's been infected made a full recovery

Many people are recovered already. Its pneumonia.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 30, 2020, 01:35:44 PM
Does anybody know of any case where a person who's been infected made a full recovery

Many people are recovered already. Its pneumonia.

It's good some people can recover on their own if their immune system is strong enough to eradicate the virus. Most haven't been so lucky and still have the virus or are dead. I've had pneumonia from a bacterial infection. I could beat it but I was prescribed anti biotics to help beat it faster. Hopefully big pharma will find something to beat the virus. Apparently some people's immune system alone isn't strong enough to defeat the virus.

China reported their deadliest day so far. Besides the nearly 8000 confirmed cases, 81,100 people are under observation for possible infection according to China's National Health Commission.

https://news.yahoo.com/china-sees-deadliest-day-yet-global-virus-fears-040446479.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on January 30, 2020, 05:28:04 PM

A model that predicts the number of coronavirus infections that will occur if the outbreak isn’t contained shows that based on current projections, there will be over 183 million infections before the end of February.

The chart, produced by data firm Bianco Research, shows that if the current rate of infections remains consistent, 183,943,221 people will have been infected by the virus within the next three weeks.

Given that the virus has already infected a minimum of 7,711 people and killed 170 (a fatality percentage of just over 2per cent), if 183 million people were infected, statistically upwards of 3.6 million would die

https://www.infowars.com/coronavirus-model-predicts-183-million-infections-before-the-end-of-february/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 30, 2020, 05:32:23 PM
'Infowars' .... Is that a 'reliable source' ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 30, 2020, 06:22:26 PM
The chart, produced by data firm Bianco Research, shows that if the current rate of infections remains consistent, 183,943,221 people will have been infected by the virus within the next three weeks.


Interesting chart but I suspect it won't come true because of changes in our behavior. Through education people are staying indoors and wearing masks outdoors more often in zones most affected. Also, entire cities are getting locked down and people are quarantined. If no education or action was happening, the amount of people getting infected can skyrocket.

What scares me the most is that no cure is found and thousands or millions of people will have this virus for life having to endure endless fever and pneumonia like symptoms. They may not die from the virus but their immune system may not be strong enough to take it out either. They will have to be quarantined for life.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 30, 2020, 11:02:20 PM

213 dead, 9700 infected, and 60 million quarantined is China's Friday morning report. US upgraded travel warning to do not travel to China. In a matter of weeks, this coronavirus has infected more people than sars did between 2002-2004. Medical experts believe it's under reported not because of a government coverup but because doctors don't have enough medical kits to adequately diagnose those who have the virus. Probably why 81,000 are currently under observation until more medical test kits are produced. Russia is closing it's 4200 km/2600 mi border with China joining Mongolia, North Korea and other Chinese neighbors barring crossings by land.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-advises-against-travel-to-china-virus-declared-emergency/ar-BBZv42d?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on January 31, 2020, 01:57:57 AM

213 dead, 9700 infected, and 60 million quarantined is China's Friday morning report. US upgraded travel warning to do not travel to China. In a matter of weeks, this coronavirus has infected more people than sars did between 2002-2004. Medical experts believe it's under reported not because of a government coverup but because doctors don't have enough medical kits to adequately diagnose those who have the virus. Probably why 81,000 are currently under observation until more medical test kits are produced. Russia is closing it's 4200 km/2600 mi border with China joining Mongolia, North Korea and other Chinese neighbors barring crossings by land.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-advises-against-travel-to-china-virus-declared-emergency/ar-BBZv42d?ocid=spartanntp

Its just a flu bug nothing more.. happens all the time.. eat plenty of fruit,, stay healthy and don't worry about it, Im certainly not..Just think how lucky you are its not the bubonic plague then you really would have some thing to worry about..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 31, 2020, 02:37:02 AM
Never heard of the 'bubonic' plague....Was it serious))

The UK has it's first two cases...

Russia has closed it's borders with China...


SEEMS pretty serious Steveboy...(

Take care!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on January 31, 2020, 02:38:54 AM
Everytime I hear of the corona virus I think of the Mexican beer "Corona"...no correlation but I wonder the origins of the name.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 31, 2020, 02:58:17 AM
May be it's York ?

Spotted yesterday - men in Hazsuits and Ambulances at the Uni !
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on January 31, 2020, 03:22:21 AM
Apparently they have a cruise ship they believe its on and now
not letting anyone off that as well. could suck for anyone traveling anywhere.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 31, 2020, 05:32:03 AM
millions of people will have this virus for life having to endure endless fever and pneumonia like symptoms.

From where did you dredge this little nugget?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on January 31, 2020, 06:10:44 AM
Never heard of the 'bubonic' plague....Was it serious))

The UK has it's first two cases...

Russia has closed it's borders with China...


SEEMS pretty serious Steveboy...(

Take care!

It will be old news in 3 weeks time..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 31, 2020, 07:26:47 AM
Its just a flu bug nothing more.. happens all the time.. eat plenty of fruit,, stay healthy and don't worry about it,

I'm not worried about the flu. We have controls for that. The only control we got now for this new virus is lockdown.

It will be old news in 3 weeks time..


SARS lasted a year and a half. Ebolo outbreak 5 years ago lasted 2 years. This new virus in on pace to infect more than Ebola did and already surpassed SARS in a matter of weeks.

So far, more people died from this virus than recovered.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on January 31, 2020, 07:31:54 AM
The UK cases are - as I suggested earlier - in York..

Local news :

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/uk-coronavirus-cases-newcastle-transferred-17666316 (https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/uk-coronavirus-cases-newcastle-transferred-17666316)

The nearest infectious diseases unit is in Newcastle ..

Chinese nationals

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on January 31, 2020, 07:42:14 AM
Never heard of the 'bubonic' plague....Was it serious))

The UK has it's first two cases...

Russia has closed it's borders with China...


SEEMS pretty serious Steveboy...(

Take care!
but sheremetyevo still allows travel. albeit they changed all china flights to terminal f and all others away from terminal f.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on January 31, 2020, 03:21:56 PM
Everytime I hear of the corona virus I think of the Mexican beer "Corona"...no correlation but I wonder the origins of the name.

Quote
The name "coronavirus" is derived from the Latin corona, meaning crown or halo, which refers to the characteristic appearance of the virus particles (virions): they have a fringe reminiscent of a royal crown or of the solar corona.

The most recent common ancestor of the coronavirus has been placed at 8000 BCE. They may be considerably older than this.

Coronaviruses are believed to cause a significant percentage of all common colds in human adults and children.

The new virus was suspected to have originated in snakes, but many leading researchers disagree with this conclusion.

Viruses need to inject their RNA into a host cell to propagate themselves.  They have been around for a much longer time than civilized humans.   :bow:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 31, 2020, 08:29:08 PM
More video of the hospital being built in the link below. They are now building prefab rooms. Start around the 18 second mark to see them. The room sits on large steel square tubing to jack it up above the concrete slab. Since there is no storm drainage, raising the rooms will prevent flooding should there be a downpour.

https://www.marke*snip*ch.com/video/how-china-is-building-two-hospitals-in-a-few-days/6B779CED-EFFB-4656-94AB-5E802E6BD741.html

It snipped the word for some reason but copy and paste the link in your browser and between www. and .com is the word market watch  Delete the space between the two words.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 31, 2020, 08:47:17 PM

Found a youtube video but these prefab rooms are on I beams unlike the ones in the other video. They are set on vapor barrier over structural fill instead of on a concrete slab like rooms in the other video. It'll be a task to get electricity to all the rooms. Start at the 21 second mark to see the rooms

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 31, 2020, 09:35:16 PM

Found a youtube video but these prefab rooms are on I beams unlike the ones in the other video. They are set on vapor barrier over structural fill instead of on a concrete slab like rooms in the other video. It'll be a task to get electricity to all the rooms. Start at the 21 second mark to see the rooms


WOW! What an amazing video. Doubt if we could do in two years what they’re doing in two weeks due to red tape.

Thanks for sharing this video.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 31, 2020, 11:22:47 PM
WOW! What an amazing video. Doubt if we could do in two years what they’re doing in two weeks due to red tape.

Thanks for sharing this video.

You're welcome. I enjoy watching them myself. I may be able to pick up a few tips. We do have rules and regulations with a permit and inspection process that slows things down but it's done for safety. We will throw those things out the window if we ever have an emergency or another world war. In world war 2 America was mass producing weapons, machines and ships. For example, we were building 3 liberty class ships every two days. That includes installing engine, plumbing and a massive amount of other stuff that goes along making those huge ships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship

I forgot to mention in the video that the raised rooms will allow for sewer piping below them and remain above ground. This saves time excavation isn't needed for side sewers. There's a huge trench in the middle of the construction project. In the trench there are huge pipes and manholes. This will pick up storm from drains and sewage delivered by the side sewer pipes and send it down the line.

I talked to a friend who's a nurse. He said many fear that it will be a superbug that wipes out the human race since new ones show up occasionally and existing ones mutate. Of course this virus currently has a 1 to 1 ratio of those who are dying to those that recovered. If everybody in the world got this virus, it'll wipe out half the population. But of course with better awareness and getting immediate medical attention which will help people's immune system fight the virus, I suspect we'll see a trend of more and more people surviving the virus until they can create a cure or quarantine those who are affected long enough to eventually wipe the virus out.

The common cold virus isn't harmful to humans but our immune system attacks it anyway so we couch, sneeze, and become fatigued as our immune system battles a virus that isn't harmful to our bodies. The coronavirus is not harmful to animals that carried it but it is harmful to us so a cure is important to find. Also besides humans, the economy is taking a hit. China's will be hit the hardest with increase medical costs, loss of production, increased unemployment, and loss of tourism. Our own stock market has been taking a big hit over the last few days as people are scared and selling off.

About 1700 newly confirmed infections today raising the total to 11,374. In about a year and a half SARS had a total of just under 8100 infections. This virus is explosive compared to SARS.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on February 01, 2020, 03:00:17 AM
Google home many people die each year from
just good ole fashion flu.
might surprise you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 01, 2020, 04:00:25 AM
Its just a flu bug nothing more.. happens all the time.. eat plenty of fruit,, stay healthy and don't worry about it,

I'm not worried about the flu. We have controls for that. The only control we got now for this new virus is lockdown.

It will be old news in 3 weeks time..


SARS lasted a year and a half. Ebolo outbreak 5 years ago lasted 2 years. This new virus in on pace to infect more than Ebola did and already surpassed SARS in a matter of weeks.

So far, more people died from this virus than recovered.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

It's Just Mother Nature cleansing the flock nothing much to worry about (Unless you catch it ) One day Mother Nature will send a big rock to the planet and wipe out all the humans , just like big old Tyrannosaurus Rex had to suffer.. and one day they will find you some where under the crust with this guy. https://www.yahoo.com/news/330-million-old-shark-found-110709325.html     probably with a few fossilized washing machines, cars and all sorts of things.. humans will be long gone and a new breed of intelligent beings will appear.. probably have museums with fossilized washing machines maybe even a fossilized Moby  :laugh:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 01, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
Google home many people die each year from
just good ole fashion flu.
might surprise you.

I know the numbers but due to the massive amount of people who catch the flu every year, a very small percentage of people die. So far with this new coronavirus, there's roughly a 50% chance the human body beats the virus or dies. The odds are horrible.


One day Mother Nature will send a big rock to the planet and wipe out all the humans , just like big old Tyrannosaurus Rex had to suffer..


That's possible. There will be so much ash in the sky after impact it'll block out the sun for 10 years and the planet will get cold. I hope Trump doesn't build the wall too high. Americans may need to climb it to get to warmer territory.

They also say our sun will become a giant and will be so large, it will swallow up earth. That will be a long ways off though. If humans live that long, we would need to find another planet to live on before the sun dries up our planet. Maybe Moby can give us some tips on how to stop the sun from expanding to prevent global warming.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on February 01, 2020, 03:41:28 PM
Google home many people die each year from
just good ole fashion flu.
might surprise you.

I know the numbers but due to the massive amount of people who catch the flu every year, a very small percentage of people die. So far with this new coronavirus, there's roughly a 50% chance the human body beats the virus or dies. The odds are horrible.


One day Mother Nature will send a big rock to the planet and wipe out all the humans , just like big old Tyrannosaurus Rex had to suffer..


That's possible. There will be so much ash in the sky after impact it'll block out the sun for 10 years and the planet will get cold. I hope Trump doesn't build the wall too high. Americans may need to climb it to get to warmer territory.

They also say our sun will become a giant and will be so large, it will swallow up earth. That will be a long ways off though. If humans live that long, we would need to find another planet to live on before the sun dries up our planet. Maybe Moby can give us some tips on how to stop the sun from expanding to prevent global warming.


10,000 people have it, so far 200 have died, mostly older people seem to have the biggest
issue so far.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 01, 2020, 04:30:19 PM
10,000 people have it, so far 200 have died, mostly older people seem to have the biggest
issue so far.


Link below has the most recent numbers. 12,000 people are infected so we don't know yet if their bodies can beat the virus or die from it yet. From experience, we know the flu viruses we're used to seeing will affect a lot of people worldwide every year and we know the overwhelming majority will survive it so we don't panic. We do not know if the overwhelming majority will survive this new virus. If the numbers stay the same and the virus was allowed to infect every human on the planet at least once, half the population would be wiped out.

So far 259 died from it and 284 recovered. Where I live, the recovered count goes up in the morning and death count gets updated in the evening everyday. Morning has passed. The death count will be updated in the evening so I expect the death count to increase in numbers.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 02, 2020, 05:08:30 AM
Maybe Moby can give us some tips on how to stop the sun from expanding to prevent global warming.

Please don't stop, BillyB

I'm sat with another 'imaginary mate' - a retired Surgeon ( not trees ... people) and he will be a frequent visitor for your 'Googled science interpretations by Silly BillyB' ..

1/ Coronavirus is an RNA virus ... it MUTATES - thus meaning linear predictions re outbreaks / survival are MEANINGLESS...

2/ IF you seriously think the Sun alone is responsible for the rapid climate change ... you might like to remember it is in a relatively stable phase - burning hydrogen ... 


Science 101 lesson for today endeth
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 02, 2020, 12:44:07 PM

1/ Coronavirus is an RNA virus ... it MUTATES - thus meaning linear predictions re outbreaks / survival are MEANINGLESS...


The yearly flu viruses we deal with are RNA too. They mutate medical scientists create vaccines for mutated viruses. There is a high rate of survival after getting the flu which is acceptable to governments and the medical community.

This new coronavirus doesn't have a high rate of survivability. It' needs to be eliminated from every human body on earth. Simply controlling it like a simple flu virus with vaccines is not an option although it would help until we can eliminate the coronavirus from the human body.

Yesterday the number of new infections had it's biggest jump ever. The good news is recoveries are starting to outpace those who die. I suspect with good medical care that controls temperature, helping people breath, keep people hydrated, and by giving medicine to boost people's immune systems, we will see more people beat the virus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chinas-coronavirus-infections-hit-daily-record-deaths-climb-to-304/ar-BBZyxyM?ocid=spartanntp

China bans funerals. No saying goodbye to loved ones. Infected bodies that die are to be quickly cremated.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-says-wuhan-coronavirus-victims-035557851.html

Coronavirus found in diarrhea of Everett, WA, USA man which means there's another way it can spread. Make sure to wash your hands good after using public restrooms.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-01/coronavirus-lurking-in-feces-may-reveal-hidden-risk-of-spread

Cocktail of flu and HIV drugs seem to help a person beat the coronavirus.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cocktail-flu-hiv-drugs-appears-124753996.html

Bird flu is back in China. Another emergency to deal with. Over 4000 dead.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-reports-bird-flu-outbreak-213148810.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on February 02, 2020, 03:16:57 PM


I'm sat with another 'imaginary mate' - a retired Surgeon ( not trees ... people) and he will be a frequent visitor for your 'Googled science interpretations by Silly BillyB' ..


Surgeons don't deal with viruses...  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 02, 2020, 06:13:23 PM
I guess that the ground conditions didn't hold back the REAL experts, eh?
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/China-Completes-Emergency-Hospital-in-9-Days-For-Virus-Outbreak-20200202-0007.html?fbclid=IwAR0SJ6HN_-5cDQ2xwsqt5oYq64S9TgMbxUKdIaphA3wM3-CG-ooWouffG50

The first hospital opened on time. The second opens on the 5th February.

Gentleman, remember the bee. The insect that experts say could never fly. Somebody forgot to tell the bees - or perhaps they didn't listen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 02, 2020, 07:09:44 PM
I guess that the ground conditions didn't hold back the REAL experts, eh?


That's because they got rid of the existing ground conditions by removing the unsuitable soil. Then they imported structural fil and leveled it off. They did things the way it's supposed to happen. Didn't you watch the videos? You may need to have your eyes examined because they didn't build that hospital on existing ground conditions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 02, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
I guess that the ground conditions didn't hold back the REAL experts, eh?


That's because they got rid of the existing ground conditions by removing the unsuitable soil. Then they imported structural fil and leveled it off. They did things the way it's supposed to happen. Didn't you watch the videos? You may need to have your eyes examined because they didn't build that hospital on existing ground conditions.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 02, 2020, 09:52:24 PM

The first person outside China to succumb to the pneumonia-like respiratory illness. American airline pilots sue their companies to halt flights to and from China. Checked airfare sights and still can buy tickets to China flying on Chinese airlines. Some countries are banning any flight or ground travel coming from China. Interesting to see there is not a single case of coronavirus in North Korea and the continents of Africa and South America.

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/02/02/coronavirus-infections-predicted-to-grow-exponentially-first-death-outside-china/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 03, 2020, 03:16:27 AM
Billy, you don't read good do you. Not even what you write yourself!

You were burbling on about how the conditions were terrible, project couldn't be done, great problems.
I simply told you that motivated people with sensible priorities would do it. And so it was.

You and others went into great detail while the Chinese simply got on with the task in hand and finished it on time, notwithstanding the problems you saw.

I guess it is a mental attitude thing. You and other 'experts' discussed details while proper people went out and did a fantastic thing while you were saying that it was all wrong.

Bees can fly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 03, 2020, 09:21:15 AM
You were burbling on about how the conditions were terrible, project couldn't be done, great problems.

I said conditions were terrible but didn’t say it couldn’t be done. Is there a reason you didn’t quote me?

 
Bees can fly.

You mean Andrew can lie?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on February 03, 2020, 11:21:46 AM
The Moby crowd start writing articles.
 
Fears of new virus trigger anti-China sentiment worldwide
http://apnews.com/04f18aafe1074a1c06b4203edcbdc661


Fear of coronavirus fuels racist sentiment targeting Asians
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fear-of-coronavirus-fuels-racist-sentiment-targeting-asians/ar-BBZBw8I

Passengers sprayed with hoses on runway after flying from coronavirus epicentre
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/passengers-sprayed-hoses-after-flying-21421289

Hong Kong shuts most China crossings over virus as medics strike
http://news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-medics-strike-china-border-closure-over-032415572.html


Prediction: MIAE
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on February 03, 2020, 12:06:56 PM
this virus will kill a lot of people until they find a vaccination same as others,
in the meantime they will try and contain it with vary degrees of success
or failure depending how you look at it.

This seems to be a trend every few years, some new strain.
With 21st century, some problems are solved, new ones are created.
funny how it works.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 03, 2020, 03:05:18 PM
this virus will kill a lot of people


We may never learn how many people will have died from the virus. Before this became official news, journalists in China and people on the internet were talking about the mysterious new illness and got arrested for doing so. The story ended up being too big for China to hide but I suspect they are still underreporting numbers to give the impression things aren't so bad. Most regions in China reporting infections in the hundreds also report zero deaths according to the latest reports.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

A few days ago there were 16 cities under lockdown and 60 million people quarantined. The numbers may have increased. Imagine 20% of Americans locked down. China should've put out a public health warning and took action before this got out of control.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 03, 2020, 03:13:38 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FhjLS6R/virus.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 03, 2020, 03:15:40 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FhjLS6R/virus.jpg)

 :bow:  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 03, 2020, 05:22:28 PM
Quote
China should've put out a public health warning and took action before this got out of control.

Spreading panic among the populace is not the SOP of the government.  Because it might induce a revolt against the government.  The same tactic used by the usurpers against the previous government.    Remember that harmony and stability overrides several million dead.   (:)

Quote
“Is SARS coming again?”
   It never left.   :chuckle:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 03, 2020, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: dcguyusa
Spreading panic among the populace is not the SOP of the government.  Because it might induce a revolt against the government. 

[/quote

Why bring bad news to people when you can bring good news!

Two days before Wuhan, with the Communist party's blessing, told the world about the outbreak, they advertised a potluck for citizens and got more than 40,000 families together in one spot to eat in hopes they'd break a world record. The same day they announced the outbreak, the city also advertised they're giving away 200,000 free tickets to attend the city's new year celebration! Business as usual from such a wonderful government. Very irresponsible of the government to sponsor large groups of people together TWICE knowing there is an unknown and uncontrollable virus that has affected some of their citizens.

Anyway, I hope they're building more hospitals. The one finished and one to soon be finished is already over capacity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 06, 2020, 12:35:40 PM

Chinese whistleblower doctor now dead.

http://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/whistleblower-chinese-doctor-dies-coronavirus-155553261.html

North Korea has zero people infected while South Korea has 23 people infected. I still recommend cancelling vacations to North Korea just in case they aren't telling the truth.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Crematorium cremating over a 100 bodies a day. Wonder what the workload is like for other Crematoriums around the country?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/we-cant-stop-funeral-worker-says-wuhan-cremating-at-least-100-bodies-a-day-amid-coronavirus-outbreak
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 06, 2020, 12:45:57 PM
I still recommend cancelling vacations to North Korea just in case they aren't telling the truth.

NK closed the border with China very quickly and halted all tourism. Anyone returning home has to go into quarantine for two weeks. It's also delaying parcel deliveries from China even though the virus can't transmit on inert objects.

I was planning to nip back in April while in China but the China trip itself is probably off as it looks like they are going to close the Canton Fair.

Meanwhile in Wuhan, here are some photos of the new medical facilities for the virus: https://www.instagram.com/p/B8LpZWZHb1X/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 06, 2020, 01:01:46 PM
Those pics are not the newly built facilities - these beds are in a sports centre and, I believe, a convention centre.

They are making a metric sh!t tonne of bed spaces available.

Pics I saw of the new hospital that opened a couple of days ago show each bed set up to provide respirators in relatively small wards - perhaps 20 beds in each room.

These pics above seem to have no 'care' provision but I noticed in some other pics that there were a load of beds with a desk and chair next to each bed.

It looks very much as though they are setting up different types of the facility for different needs ranging from, possibly, quarantine through to caring for the seriously ill.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 06, 2020, 01:03:17 PM

Meanwhile in Wuhan, here are some photos of the new medical facilities for the virus: https://www.instagram.com/p/B8LpZWZHb1X/


Photos show that hospital was set up in a basketball arena and possibly an office building. I heard they were even using stadiums too. I don't like the idea of beds right next to each other in open air without walls. Although every patient in the arena has the virus, it's best to not breath in new viruses while the immune system fights the existing viruses in the body. I'm sure they give everybody masks but no guarantees it will stop the virus 100%
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 06, 2020, 01:04:37 PM
It's also delaying parcel deliveries from China even though the virus can't transmit on inert objects.



B.B's 'CDC states " It’s currently unclear if a person can get 2019-nCoV by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html)

That was precisely the Q I asked a micro-biologist at the weekend - and got the same answer .. 'too early to know' .. THAT is why it is recommended to wash one's hands regularly - as the face masks are useless within 6 mins 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 06, 2020, 01:18:57 PM
It's also delaying parcel deliveries from China even though the virus can't transmit on inert objects.

B.B's 'CDC states " It’s currently unclear if a person can get 2019-nCoV by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html)

That was precisely the Q I asked a micro-biologist at the weekend - and got the same answer .. 'too early to know' .. THAT is why it is recommended to wash one's hands regularly - as the face masks are useless within 6 mins

Touching surfaces someone just coughed all over isnt really what I meant.

Parcels travel without people. So put some parcels on a train or plane and the virus isnt camping out looking for its next victim.

Observe: https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/01/31/ask-2-will-the-coronavirus-spread-through-mail-packages-sent-through-international-mail-carriers/

That said, we are all naturally cautious. I was trying to buy bulk some screwdrivers I'd run out of the other day and the best deal was a seller in Wuhan. Hmm.

I bought from Draper in the UK for more in the end.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 06, 2020, 01:22:34 PM
 You have to think China knew how bad this was going to get quite early when they started building new hospitals to hold 1000+ people so quickly. And now there are more coming.

 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/china-races-build-hospitals-coronavirus-outbreak-grows-200205033913557.html

 The scary part is what do they know that we don't. How bad is this going to get? Or how bad is it already? It's hard to tell what is truth or hoax but there are reports that China is greatly understating the amount of deaths and infections there already. When you see them scrambling to build more hospitals like this it's hard not to believe that they are covering up how bad it really is.

 

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 06, 2020, 01:30:15 PM

That said, we are all naturally cautious. I was trying to buy bulk some screwdrivers I'd run out of the other day and the best deal was a seller in Wuhan. Hmm.


 That's just it, there probably isn't a way to contract it by touching those screwdrivers, but a guy can't help but think, why take the chance?

 I was looking at some Chinese LED light bars on ebay and was ready to buy some when this hit. The first thing I thought was it wasn't worth taking the chance getting something from China right now, even though it would save me a couple hundred bucks. I'm guessing China is going to take a huge hit on trade throughout the world before this is all over.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 06, 2020, 01:30:44 PM


Touching surfaces someone just coughed all over isnt really what I meant. 

Er, I did get what you meant ... a parcel might contain an object that was touched by a carrier  / virus droplets and might still be infected ...


Normally, viruses - in the form of droplets - would not survive long enough to pose a threat - esp intl mail services


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 06, 2020, 01:47:16 PM
I'm guessing China is going to take a huge hit on trade throughout the world before this is all over.

Supply lines of goods are already running dry. There's always a drought around Chinese New Year but now its been extended, so have lead times. One of my UK suppliers ran out of a popular line today they get from China. They are quoting late March. Another line I use a lot of I checked their stock and only 400 left, so I bought them all (I usually buy maybe 15 a week but who knows when they will be back in stock now?). I've a new line that was mid assembly when CNY happened, that factory in the north *might* be back at work on the 10th.

Hong Kong will be hit very hard. There are heavy border controls from the mainland and the bullet trains from Shenzhen and Dongguan aren't running. Tourism was already hurting badly from the protests - more people than ever are staying away. Now they have this on top. There are more flight restrictions I heard today. Lots of businesses and restaurants will close.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 06, 2020, 04:08:46 PM
This entire CoV19/20 biowarfare experiment was executed by the CCP so they could renege on phase one of the recent US Trade Agreement and try to weaken the CiC along with their collaborator Mini Mike Bloomberg in hopes of a Clinton/Obama/Biden/Bloomberg pro-China regime voted in in 2020.

Ironically Bernie Sanders being a socialist leftist populist regarding expanding Union workers in his vision of a workers paradise is in favor of the Trump implementation of the founding fathers favoring of Customs and Tariffs to fund the Federal Government and check the CCP export driven trade surplus excesses...


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 06, 2020, 06:14:33 PM
I’m currently high in the sky traveling over America. Nobody on the plane is wearing a mask.  At SeaTac airport, Seattle”s airport, only a couple of people were wearing masks. None of the airport or airline employees were wearing masks. I did see warning signs about traveling to China.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 06, 2020, 06:23:45 PM
This entire CoV19/20 biowarfare experiment was executed by the CCP


Some in the Chinese media are speculating if it's an engineered virus made by, and planted by the US to damage the Chinese economy at the behest of Trump. "Is this a new type of warfare?" they are asking.

And when you do the reading, that is a possibility. The timing is most opportune.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 06, 2020, 06:31:21 PM
I’m currently high in the sky traveling over America. Nobody on the plane is wearing a mask.  At SeaTac airport, Seattle”s airport, only a couple of people were wearing masks. None of the airport or airline employees were wearing masks. I did see warning signs about traveling to China.

The risk in the US is miniscule unless on a flight to or from China.

On the subject of masks generally though, I bought lots in China and we [as a family] wear them on planes quite routinely the last year or two. Always we seem to be sat near people with constant hacking coughs, or those who are snotting and sniffling, and who knows what lurgy they are spreading?  :sick0012: 

The masks give one a modicum of comfort and as anyone who has travelled in Asia knows, they are quite routine there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 06, 2020, 06:36:13 PM
The timing is most opportune.

 How so? The way I see it Trump wants the Chinese economy to be healthy so they can keep buying more US products. Especially now that they just finished some of the trade agreements that were delayed for so long, and just months before an election. If China all the sudden says they can't buy as much US soybeans (or whatever) because of economic restraints due the virus that has to have an effect on the US economy, and would be ammo the Dems can use against him.  If anything I would say it's bad timing for Trump
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 06, 2020, 07:54:32 PM
The timing is most opportune.

 How so? The way I see it Trump wants the Chinese economy to be healthy so they can keep buying more US products. Especially now that they just finished some of the trade agreements that were delayed for so long, and just months before an election. If China all the sudden says they can't buy as much US soybeans (or whatever) because of economic restraints due the virus that has to have an effect on the US economy, and would be ammo the Dems can use against him.  If anything I would say it's bad timing for Trump

Manny can’t seem to help himself anymore, common sense and logic be damned.

I agree 100% with your analysis d672.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 06, 2020, 08:33:02 PM

 If China all the sudden says they can't buy as much US soybeans (or whatever) because of economic restraints due the virus that has to have an effect on the US economy, and would be ammo the Dems can use against him

 Heyyyy, now there's a thought. The Dems are trying to sabotage the trade deals Trump made with China so the economy would slow down and they could have a chance of beating him in November!

 I was wondering why they were trying to impeach him with such a weak case, but now I see it was all just a smoke screen orchestrated to distract everyone from what they were doing in China. And Pelosi... delaying sending the articles of impeachment to the senate...everyone was wondering why... they must have been stalling to see that the virus was taking effect before they moved on. It's all beginning to make sense now!

 You might be right Manny, the virus could have been an American conspiracy. Not by the Trump administration but by the ones who are trying to remove him. Someone should check and see if Joe or Hunter have been to China recently!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 06, 2020, 08:56:04 PM

 If China all the sudden says they can't buy as much US soybeans (or whatever) because of economic restraints due the virus that has to have an effect on the US economy, and would be ammo the Dems can use against him

 Heyyyy, now there's a thought. The Dems are trying to sabotage the trade deals Trump made with China so the economy would slow down and they could have a chance of beating him in November!

 I was wondering why they were trying to impeach him with such a weak case, but now I see it was all just a smoke screen orchestrated to distract everyone from what they were doing in China. And Pelosi... delaying sending the articles of impeachment to the senate...everyone was wondering why... they must have been stalling to see that the virus was taking effect before they moved on. It's all beginning to make sense now!

 You might be right Manny, the virus could have been an American conspiracy. Not by the Trump administration but by the ones who are trying to remove him. Someone should check and see if Joe or Hunter have been to China recently!  :chuckle:

They should also check bitter Grandma of death!  :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 07, 2020, 02:30:18 AM

The masks give one a modicum of comfort and as anyone who has travelled in Asia knows, they are quite routine there.
..

and that is ALL they'll do after c.six mins  usage...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on February 07, 2020, 10:16:36 AM
Chinese whistleblower doctor now dead.

A doctor treating people who have been infected with the virus, dies of the virus.  :'(

Nice bit of propaganda though Billy!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 07, 2020, 12:23:17 PM

The masks give one a modicum of comfort and as anyone who has travelled in Asia knows, they are quite routine there.
..

and that is ALL they'll do after c.six mins  usage...

No, they effectively filter out droplets from the air which can contain viruses, and at PM2.5 they also filter out diesel and other pollutants. They are not a magic remedy indeed, but to laugh them off is equally silly. After a long haul flight I can often feel a bit of lurgy for a day or two, scratchy throat, all that. When I wear a mask it doesn't happen. Go figure.

When the bloke next to you on the plane is coughing his tripe up, I'd rather have one than not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 07, 2020, 12:50:31 PM
The timing is most opportune.

How so? The way I see it Trump wants the Chinese economy to be healthy so they can keep buying more US products. Especially now that they just finished some of the trade agreements that were delayed for so long, and just months before an election. If China all the sudden says they can't buy as much US soybeans (or whatever) because of economic restraints due the virus that has to have an effect on the US economy, and would be ammo the Dems can use against him.  If anything I would say it's bad timing for Trump

I disagree. In one of our papers there is a good US analyst called Irwin Stelzer, he said this:

Quote from: Irwin Stelzer
Whether the Chinese deal and USMCA are the triumphs Trump says they are is open to some doubt. Despite his characterisation of USMCA as “the biggest [trade] deal ever done in the history of our country”, it is better described as a modest modification of Nafta: in the long run it might add 0.35% to America’s GDP. It does reserve more auto and auto parts jobs for US workers, but at the expense of consumers who, for example, will bear the cost of these higher-paid US workers rather than Mexican labourers earning about one-third as much. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a gain that carries costs Trump refuses to acknowledge.

As for China’s agreement to purchase more US stuff, it is at best a minor win in a war that has long to run. It expires in two years and must “reflect market conditions”. The agreement applies only if there is sufficient demand from Chinese consumers, and only if US products are commercially competitive with those of other countries, in which case China would have bought them anyhow. It does not include a promise to end subsidies to the industries that China plans to dominate in the next decade.

More important, it is not at all certain that the overall, long-term effect of Trump’s upending of the global trading system will be to America’s advantage. True, after decades in which presidents allowed China to steal US intellectual property and use subsidies and currency manipulation to hollow out the manufacturing sector and the towns where shuttered factories were located, Trump brought the communist regime to the bargaining table. However, he has not persuaded Xi Jinping to abandon his Made in China 2025 programme of subsidising the industries of the future and restricting US firms’ access to China’s markets. If you believe there will be a phase two deal that does that, you must also believe that China will some day honour the pledges it made to gain entry to the World Trade Organisation in 2001 and, later, its promise not to militarise the South China Sea islands it built.

Robert Zoellick, former World Bank president, says America has adopted “command economics” and “managed trade”. Trump directs China’s purchases to industries he favours because they favour him at the polls — China is to buy agricultural goods, so farmers will vote Trump in November. Lots of industries are adversely affected by China’s reciprocal tariffs on their products, but only swing-state farmers have received what Bloomberg estimates to be $28bn from taxpayers to soothe their pain.

The message is clear: if you want the benefits of managed trade policy directed to you and the costs reserved for others to bear, live in a swing state. Tariffs are here to stay, and both Trump and any Democratic candidate will shape trade policy to your advantage. Free markets are for nostalgia-afflicted Republicans who remember when their party believed that the free choices of independent consumers should decide how the nation allocates its resources.

The virus struck right on Chinese New Year, when anyone and everyone in China is on the move. A worse moment in the year could not be envisaged. Also, the virus struck just as the Chinese economy was recovering from Trump's trade war. It was expected to buck up in the first quarter of 2020, but some are saying it will wipe 2% from GDP over three months.

I've a new line that was mid assembly when CNY happened, that factory in the north *might* be back at work on the 10th.

Now they are saying the 17th. This will now hurt western supply chains badly.  :duh:

Now for context, see here: Coronavirus: China accuses US of causing panic and 'spreading fear' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51353279)

Quote
Senior Trump administration figures, meanwhile, have intimated that the economic damage inflicted on China could be to America’s benefit.
Source (https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3049199/coronavirus-creates-new-cracks-us-china-relations-crucial)

China is essentially an enemy of the US. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the US is behind the Coronavirus.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 07, 2020, 01:18:05 PM

The masks give one a modicum of comfort and as anyone who has travelled in Asia knows, they are quite routine there.
..

and that is ALL they'll do after c.six mins  usage...

No, they effectively filter out droplets from the air which can contain viruses, and at PM2.5 they also filter out diesel and other pollutants. They are not a magic remedy indeed, but to laugh them off is equally silly. After a long haul flight I can often feel a bit of lurgy for a day or two, scratchy throat, all that. When I wear a mask it doesn't happen. Go figure.

When the bloke next to you on the plane is coughing his tripe up, I'd rather have one than not.

Facial Masks are often a very expensieve mud, wax and honey plus what ever else a marketing BS person can convince women to smear over there faces to improve there looks. They usually do not work.

The folded, often blue, paper masks are to prevent medical professionals from contaminating a (hopefully) sterile field. Respirators are designed to screen out airborne particles whether dust or depending on the type, micro organisms, i.e. viruses. Europe and the United States have different classifications, but the fundamentals are the same.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 07, 2020, 01:26:30 PM
According to a physician who should know, face asks and especially gloves are not much help for people who are not already infected with a virus.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-avoid-virus-forget-face-masks-top-airline-doctor-says

Pretty much in line with what I wrote many days ago.

If you are infected then a mask helps to stop the spread of the virus from you when you cough or sneeze.

The face masks are only a psychological support doing no good in the physical realm.

But humans are herd creatures and most of the herd are dumb as rocks so people will continue to do silly things under the false impression that a useless mask gives protection.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 07, 2020, 07:44:00 PM

I disagree. In one of our papers there is a good US analyst called Irwin Stelzer, he said this:

Quote from: Irwin Stelzer
Whether the Chinese deal and USMCA are the triumphs Trump says they are is open to some doubt. Despite his characterisation of USMCA as “the biggest [trade] deal ever done in the history of our country”, it is better described as a modest modification of Nafta: in the long run it might add 0.35% to America’s GDP. It does reserve more auto and auto parts jobs for US workers, but at the expense of consumers who, for example, will bear the cost of these higher-paid US workers rather than Mexican labourers earning about one-third as much. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a gain that carries costs Trump refuses to acknowledge.

As for China’s agreement to purchase more US stuff, it is at best a minor win in a war that has long to run. It expires in two years and must “reflect market conditions”. The agreement applies only if there is sufficient demand from Chinese consumers, and only if US products are commercially competitive with those of other countries, in which case China would have bought them anyhow. It does not include a promise to end subsidies to the industries that China plans to dominate in the next decade.

More important, it is not at all certain that the overall, long-term effect of Trump’s upending of the global trading system will be to America’s advantage. True, after decades in which presidents allowed China to steal US intellectual property and use subsidies and currency manipulation to hollow out the manufacturing sector and the towns where shuttered factories were located, Trump brought the communist regime to the bargaining table. However, he has not persuaded Xi Jinping to abandon his Made in China 2025 programme of subsidising the industries of the future and restricting US firms’ access to China’s markets. If you believe there will be a phase two deal that does that, you must also believe that China will some day honour the pledges it made to gain entry to the World Trade Organisation in 2001 and, later, its promise not to militarise the South China Sea islands it built.

Robert Zoellick, former World Bank president, says America has adopted “command economics” and “managed trade”. Trump directs China’s purchases to industries he favours because they favour him at the polls — China is to buy agricultural goods, so farmers will vote Trump in November. Lots of industries are adversely affected by China’s reciprocal tariffs on their products, but only swing-state farmers have received what Bloomberg estimates to be $28bn from taxpayers to soothe their pain.

The message is clear: if you want the benefits of managed trade policy directed to you and the costs reserved for others to bear, live in a swing state. Tariffs are here to stay, and both Trump and any Democratic candidate will shape trade policy to your advantage. Free markets are for nostalgia-afflicted Republicans who remember when their party believed that the free choices of independent consumers should decide how the nation allocates its resources.


 That's actually a pretty good article and I agree with a lot of it, but I fail to see how it debunks my theory that the timing is bad for Trump to be behind spreading the virus. In fact, it supports it where it mentions that the agreement applies only if there is sufficient demand from Chinese consumers. I bolded that part for you to find easier.

 So if the virus deflates the Chinese economy there will definately be less demand for US products and the Chinese will not be buying as much. Like I said, this is not good for Trump especially in an election year. Trump wants the Chinese economy to be strong right now

 I'm curious to know exactly what part of that article makes you think what I said was wrong? And shows how the virus would improve the situation for the US?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 07, 2020, 08:01:13 PM


Quote
Senior Trump administration figures, meanwhile, have intimated that the economic damage inflicted on China could be to America’s benefit.
Source (https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3049199/coronavirus-creates-new-cracks-us-china-relations-crucial)

China is essentially an enemy of the US. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the US is behind the Coronavirus.

 I see where they mention the guys talking about how production could ramp up from this, but they sure don't go into detail as to how or why. Maybe because some countries won't want buy from China until this virus is controlled? If anything there may be a short term gain if China isn't providing a product to someone that the US can, but we all know the US cannot compete pricewise with China in producing products so I can't see it being a long term thing. And would that really outweigh the revenues lost from China not buying as much from the US because of the deflated economy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 07, 2020, 08:18:38 PM
 The Coronavirus is already affecting grain exports. Here is a newsletter I received this week about grain sales from an American based buyer I deal with...

We have had more than our share of adversity this past growing season whether it be environmental or other.  As it relates to other meaning trade wars with China phase 1 is now complete,we were on our way and getting offshore sales on the books until right about 10 days ago.  Coronavirus hit and there are certainly going to be some trade hiccups as we move forward.  China has 40 million people displaced (workforce) in 15 cities, close to 10,000 infected, over 200 passed and have extended Lunar New Year by a week. We were just at a point where we were moving significant volume of organic grains (yellow peas) overseas and then this hit.  We don’t know yet and wont for minimum of another 2-3 weeks but we will have some short term trade issues going forward.

 Things were just getting rolling again then the virus hit and killed the market. That is just grains, think about all the other imports that are being affected the same way. Hard to imagine how the US is benefitting from this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 07, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
d672, I agree with you, it’s bad for Trump.

Keep in mind some elements of the CIA hate Trump. Dirty tricks like this are right up their alley.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 08, 2020, 12:00:06 AM
China is essentially an enemy of the US. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the US is behind the Coronavirus.

Biological Weapons: A Useful and Timely Factual Overview

(https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/pentagon-bioweapons-400x225.jpg)

The US government and its many agencies and educational and health institutions, have for many decades conducted intensive research into biological warfare, in many cases strongly focused on race-specific pathogens.

In a report to the US Congress, the Department of Defense revealed that its program of creating artificial biological agents included modifying non-fatal viruses to make them lethal, and genetic engineering to alter the immunology of biological agents to make treatment and vaccinations impossible. The military report admitted that at the time it operated about 130 bio-weapons research facilities, dozens at US universities and others at many international sites outside the purview of the US Congress and the jurisdiction of the courts.

This knowledge hasn’t been a secret for a long time. In a classified 1948 report by the Pentagon’s Committee on Biological Warfare, the main selling point was that:

 “A gun or a bomb leaves no doubt that a deliberate attack has occurred. But if … an epidemic slashes across a crowded city, there is no way of knowing whether anyone attacked, much less who”, adding hopefully that “A significant portion of the human population within selected target areas may be killed or incapacitated” with only very small amounts of a pathogen. (1) (2)

Read more here:
Biological Weapons: A Useful and Timely Factual Overview (https://www.globalresearch.ca/biological-weapons-useful-timely-factual-overview/5702842)

 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 08, 2020, 12:12:51 AM
IF some faction of a nation wanted to hurt an enemy in such a fashion ... they'd develop a virus that was a little more 'effective' ... ?

Once it spreads outside your enemy's territory and onto once's on patch and that of allies  - do you think the virus 'knows' it's not to kill 'friendlies' ..?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 08, 2020, 10:08:27 AM
I'm curious to know exactly what part of that article makes you think what I said was wrong? And shows how the virus would improve the situation for the US?

Quote from: d672
Especially now that they just finished some of the trade agreements that were delayed for so long

The article I linked appears to demonstrate the trade agreement has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese and China can essentially disregard any inconvenient parts of it.

Quote from: d672
we all know the US cannot compete pricewise with China in producing products so I can't see it being a long term thing. And would that really outweigh the revenues lost from China not buying as much from the US because of the deflated economy?

It has to go a fair way to recompensing the economy as a whole. I dont know the volume or value of exports from the US to China so can't speculate as to how it may impact the US. 

Quote from: d672
Trump wants the Chinese economy to be strong right now

I disagree with that too. Trump wants the US strong and he may imagine a good way to do that is damage China so Americans buy home produce and buy goods that are manufactured locally. He already started a trade war with them. He's already been threatening them.

You can't invade them or pull a regime change stunt as per the usual playbook (despite trying around the edges by funding Hong Kong protests).

What if there was a tool in the box that suddenly gave the huge economy of China a debilitating setback? Like a virus. What if later on, a US company pops up with the vaccine? Wouldn't that be convenient?

The virus could have come via the route we heard of course with no outside help. But it is a HUGE coincidence that it happened in a hub like Wuhan, right before the biggest holiday of the year. If you were going to plant a biological weapon of this nature, that is exactly when you'd do it and Wuhan would be a good place to do it. Knowing how the Chinese handle these situations (hiding info, underreporting, etc.), they'd contribute to their own demise before it gets better.

Naturally, Russia is a whipping boy in this 'conspiracy theory' as outlined here: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/02/russian-disinformation-coronavirus/

As an anti-Russian story, it is covered by the BBC too of course: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51413870

A curious twist is that some in the US, helped by Israel of course, are claiming it is a biological weapon made by China itself: https://keralakaumudi.com/en/news/news.php?id=233326&u=coronavirus-may-have-origins-in-china%E2%80%99s-biological-warfare-lab-in-wuhan
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 08, 2020, 10:36:57 AM
Manny the virus didn’t show up on Chinese New Year. There is a reason the number 2019 is in the name of the virus.

Trump can win trade wars without biological warfare. He already won some and Mexico, Canada and South Korea didn’t  have a virus outbreak. China has smarter people than on the forum. If they can pin the blame on someone else, they would but they can’t.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 08, 2020, 11:13:58 AM
I'm curious to know exactly what part of that article makes you think what I said was wrong? And shows how the virus would improve the situation for the US?

Quote from: d672
Especially now that they just finished some of the trade agreements that were delayed for so long

The article I linked appears to demonstrate the trade agreement has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese and China can essentially disregard any inconvenient parts of it.


 Exactly, yet Trump still agreed with it. Why? because he needs the "win". It's an election year, remember? Things were starting to flow again, as was mentioned by my grain buyer. Why do an about face and stop that? The timing doesn't make sense.



Quote from: d672
we all know the US cannot compete pricewise with China in producing products so I can't see it being a long term thing. And would that really outweigh the revenues lost from China not buying as much from the US because of the deflated economy?

It has to go a fair way to recompensing the economy as a whole. I dont know the volume or value of exports from the US to China so can't speculate as to how it may impact the US.

 Here you go, in 2018 before the trade war started it was 120 billion per year. A huge amount.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/277679/total-value-of-us-trade-in-goods-with-china-since-2006/

 Definitely enough to create a huge impact on a lot of producers if that dropped



What if there was a tool in the box that suddenly gave the huge economy of China a debilitating setback? Like a virus. What if later on, a US company pops up with the vaccine? Wouldn't that be convenient?


 The US already had a tool to do that, and used it, and it worked very well, the tariffs. They had a huge impact on the Chinese economy, why would they make the agreement, take them off then release this virus? Makes no sense



A curious twist is that some in the US, helped by Israel of course, are claiming it is a biological weapon made by China itself: https://keralakaumudi.com/en/news/news.php?id=233326&u=coronavirus-may-have-origins-in-china%E2%80%99s-biological-warfare-lab-in-wuhan

 This is actually more realistic than saying the US is behind the virus. It's quite a coincidence that the virus started in a city that has the only known lab for handling deadly viruses in China. It's a lot more believable that they might have had an accidental contamination that got away on them than to say the US was behind it







Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on February 08, 2020, 02:06:12 PM
One has to remember in Manny's world every problem in the world is the fault or blame
of the US, find me a thread on this forum in the last 2 years, that he doesn't blame them for some or
all or all of the problems in the world.

reality is, this shit happens, it is not good for anyone one, trade is being affected by every G-20 nation
and far beyond that. I suspect the faster anyone comes up with the fix, the happier everyone will be.
The fear alone it creates everywhere is insane.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 08, 2020, 03:35:11 PM
One has to remember in Manny's world every problem in the world is the fault or blame
of the US, find me a thread on this forum in the last 2 years, that he doesn't blame them for some or
all or all of the problems in the world.

reality is, this shit happens, it is not good for anyone one, trade is being affected by every G-20 nation
and far beyond that. I suspect the faster anyone comes up with the fix, the happier everyone will be.
The fear alone it creates everywhere is insane.

 No doubt, last night on the news they showed this cruise ship which has no signs of the virus is not being allowed to dock at ports. It is just wandering around aimlessly right now trying to figure out what to do. Crazy

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/cruise-ship-denied-entry-to-ports-over-coronavirus-concerns
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 08, 2020, 03:54:45 PM
One has to remember in Manny's world every problem in the world is the fault or blame
of the US, find me a thread on this forum in the last 2 years, that he doesn't blame them for some or all or all of the problems in the world.


reality is, this shit happens, it is not good for anyone one, trade is being affected by every G-20 nation
and far beyond that. I suspect the faster anyone comes up with the fix, the happier everyone will be.
The fear alone it creates everywhere is insane.

Time for you to take off your blindfolds and look around to see the reality!

Suggest you start reading.....

Rebuilding America's Defenses (Blueprint of the PNAC Plan for U.S. Global Hegemony) (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm)

Some people have compared it to Hitler's publication of Mein Kampf, which was ignored until after the war was over.

 :reading:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 08, 2020, 05:27:36 PM
One has to remember in Manny's world every problem in the world is the fault or blame
of the US, find me a thread on this forum in the last 2 years, that he doesn't blame them for some or
all or all of the problems in the world.

reality is, this shit happens, it is not good for anyone one, trade is being affected by every G-20 nation
and far beyond that. I suspect the faster anyone comes up with the fix, the happier everyone will be.
The fear alone it creates everywhere is insane.

I’m leaning towards China created this virus right there in their own lab and it got out by accident.

Yes Manny always has a theory available to blame on the USA.  :chuckle:


Asked if the new coronavirus may have leaked, Shoham said: "In principle, outward virus infiltration might take place either as leakage or as an indoor unnoticed infection of a person that normally went out of the concerned facility. This could have been the case with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, but so far there isn't evidence or indication for such incident
.

link above
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 08, 2020, 10:39:11 PM
There is a laboratory in Wuhan that deals with the most deadly viruses around. It’s possible a worker got infected at work, went home and passed it around. But China is blaming citizens for eating exotic meat. I’d like to believe the meat was cooked well enough to killl the virus if it was true exotic meat was the source.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 09, 2020, 04:19:59 AM
I woke this morning with bad eyes !! Can hardly see. and sore as hell gums and teeth!! Im wondering if I'm coming down with it..

(https://scontent-arn2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/85166277_2589093597856195_7813491619704864768_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnpVbdT896VeC25occcWLRmYu5oElrfiyrxjdgxZwA7XHipNiqLaMTpWq2CtkAw__Q&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-2.xx&oh=5955cc8a09c806fb24e2a9958ff8d016&oe=5ECC1AD6)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Double07 on February 09, 2020, 06:44:23 AM
I am beginning to think that coronal virus thing is a scheme to reduce Chinese numbers drastically.
They are rumour making rounds that Chinese health officials are making moves to obtain court injunction to eliminate over 2000 infected patients.

What is the best approach towards curbing the spread of this pavers virus??
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 09, 2020, 11:16:04 AM
I woke this morning with bad eyes !! Can hardly see. and sore as hell gums and teeth!! Im wondering if I'm coming down with it..

(https://scontent-arn2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/85166277_2589093597856195_7813491619704864768_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnpVbdT896VeC25occcWLRmYu5oElrfiyrxjdgxZwA7XHipNiqLaMTpWq2CtkAw__Q&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-2.xx&oh=5955cc8a09c806fb24e2a9958ff8d016&oe=5ECC1AD6)

 Naw, you probably went out drinking last night and got into the cat food again when you got home.That stuff will kill ya!    :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 10, 2020, 04:40:32 PM
 Geez, how bad is it going to get?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/40000-coronavirus-cases-may-be-tip-of-the-iceberg-as-death-toll-nears-1000/ar-BBZQICy?ocid=spartandhp#image=BBZaM5o|2
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 10, 2020, 05:53:20 PM
I saw an article that said that the genome of the virus was found to be a close match to samples obtained from pangolins.  The animals are a species of anteaters and are often desired for their "medicinal" qualities.  These animals may have received the virus from another animal (vector distribution).  The animals are trafficked like other exotic animals like rhinos and tigers.

Vanity of vanities.  All is vanity

 (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 10, 2020, 06:50:25 PM
Portsmouth, New Hampshire
February 10, 2020
Jim Rickards

Dear Reader,

There's a lot of bad news coming out of China on the coronavirus epidemic. The official statistics show 40,171 confirmed cases as of yesterday, with 908 deaths as of this morning.

That’s slightly higher than a 2% fatality rate. If that sounds low, it's not.

If 100 million people become infected, a 2% fatality rate means 2 million dead, which is worse than all but a few wars in history.

The ultimate extent of the contagion remains to be seen, but for now it is far from under control.

The total number of people in China under lockdown now exceeds 400 million (out of a population of 1.3 billion). No quarantine of this scope has ever been attempted before.

Streets are empty, planes and trains are not running, shops are closed and food is being hoarded.

The best case is that the Chinese economy may drop from estimated 6% growth to 4% growth in the first half of 2020. The worst case is difficult to imagine but could include a global recession and maybe even a global financial panic.

And the “worst case” scenario may be more realistic than many have considered...

Our current understanding of the virus is based on official statistics from various government sources. But what if those statistics are wrong and the extent of the disease is far worse than we realize?

There is good reason to believe that the actual number of cases is much higher than the official 40,171 and that the death toll is far greater than 908...

The Chinese website Tencent (similar to Facebook or Twitter as a large social media platform) has published figures that suggest the actual number of cases is closer to 155,000 and the number of deaths is about 25,000.

If those figures are accurate, the infection rate is four times the official figure and the number of deaths is 28 times the official figure.

Those Tencent figures also reveal a death rate of 16%, which is eight times the official death rate of 2%.

Who's right, Tencent or the Chinese government?

A number of factors go into answering this question. Anecdotal evidence suggests that dead bodies are literally lying in the streets in Wuhan, the city most affected by the virus.

Those bodies were being whisked away in unrefrigerated trucks and there is a reported shortage of body bags. Dead bodies are being cremated without autopsies or blood samples, so many coronavirus victims are not being identified as such.

Wuhan is also the site of China's biological warfare laboratory, and there is some suggestion that the coronavirus may have escaped from the government labs.

China has a long history of official lies, so they may be lying about the coronavirus also. And while Tencent has taken down its coronavirus estimates (China's internet is heavily censored), those figures came from somewhere, which raises an inference that they are correct.

It's too soon to gauge the extent and impact of the coronavirus on individual victims or the world economy. But if the Tencent figures are correct, this pandemic has much further and much longer to run.

Now, there is a ray of good news in this otherwise bleak situation...

Scientists around the world are racing to discover a vaccine or other cure for the disease. Major efforts are now underway at Imperial College London and medical centers in China and the U.S.

It often takes two years or more to develop an effective vaccine from a standing start. But because of the seriousness of coronavirus, some are optimistic that a cure might be developed in as little as three months.

That remains to be seen.

For now, the world is engaged in a life-or-death race between the spread of the disease and the efforts of scientists to find a cure. We’re all rooting for the scientists but need to be prepared in case the virus wins the race.

But there’s another aspect of this growing crisis that you’re not hearing about in the mainstream press…

That’s the possibility of global bank freezes if the coronavirus triggers a mass panic.

Bank freezes have actually arisen in recent years in Cyprus (2013), Greece (2015) and now Lebanon. It's true that these freezes have been contained to a single country each time and have not gone global, but it may just be a matter of time before one such crisis spins out of control.

And that could be the coronavirus. I’m not saying it will happen. But the potential is there.

The time to prepare is now.

Regards,

Jim Rickards
for The Daily Reckoning

This is from an email, so no web link.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 11, 2020, 02:25:50 PM

There's a lot of bad news coming out of China on the coronavirus epidemic. The official statistics show 40,171 confirmed cases as of yesterday, with 908 deaths as of this morning.

That’s slightly higher than a 2% fatality rate. If that sounds low, it's not.


The guy's math is wrong. He can't count those infected into the fatality rate until it's determined if they'll live or die. The fatality rate is much higher. John Hopkins university website reports infection, deaths, and recovery totals and those who's fight with the virus is over equates to roughly a 20% fatality rate. Some of China's provinces have reported hundreds of recoveries and one or zero deaths. Obviously they are under-reporting deaths so that means they can over report recoveries and under report those infected. If true, some 400 million people are under lock down to some degree, it means the Chinese government is in panic mode.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 11, 2020, 02:43:34 PM

High amounts of Sulfur Dioxide showing all over the populated areas of China. The burning of organics which includes human bodies emits Sulfur Dioxide. Wuhan is showing the most Sulfur Dioxide.

https://www.windy.com/-Show---add-more-layers/overlays?so2sm,44.402,40.957,3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 11, 2020, 03:48:30 PM
I deal with quite a few Chinese factories and know a few folks there.

With Chinese, often it's what they do (or dont do) that one relies upon to read between the lines.

As we know, there was a defacto curfew across much of China since Chinese New Year. Most businesses and factories were told to close. Western ones (like Starbucks) who ignored that were forced to close by the police. One family member per household is allowed out every 2/3 days to buy food and people were told to stay at home. Most people complied.

It's been a good couple of weeks now and the curfew has stopped it sweeping the country as it might have done. Areas that are least affected are being allowed to slowly resume normal activity. Everyone is masked up of course, and hand gelling like crazy in public places and this will probably work to break its back over the next few weeks. Everyone seems very optimistic and equally paranoid about not spreading disease. More hygiene in China will be a good thing.

From the last few days I can report this directly from residents for anyone that does anything or knows anyone in the regions there:


What may come out of all this eventually is a discussion about eating stuff like bat (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7), snake, dog, turtle, numerous large insects and more likely ant-eating Pangolins (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00364-2).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 11, 2020, 04:04:57 PM
60 to 80% infection rate?   :scared0005: :sick0012: :hidechair: :snivel: :o :saint: :GRAVE: :sick0002:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-could-infect-60-percent-of-world-unchecked-gabriel-leung-2020-2

Nah.    :chuckle: :-\

Quote
WHO officials estimate that about 2% of cases are fatal.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-02-11/who-challenges-claim-that-coronavirus-could-infect-60-of-global-population
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 11, 2020, 04:08:48 PM
The sulfur dioxide propaganda makes no sense. It's for the hard of thinking among us.

Here's why: Humans bodies do not burn easily. It takes very high temperatures and for long periods of time. That's why we have specialised crematoria rather than just burning granny in the back garden.

Crematoria don't just spring up from nowhere, they are built to serve the needs of the community in which they are situated. There's an absolute limit on the number of bodies that can be burned in any given period and it is not much higher than the normal quantity.

There's a reason why funerals are planned in advance - it is so that a slot for burning the body can be booked at the crematorium.

The time taken to cremate a body is between 1 and 3 hours.
In China, about 8.9 million people die every year. That's 24,000 people each day.
Let us assume for a moment that the faked numbers from Tencent the other day were accurate and that, at that time, there had been around 25,000 deaths that means since the virus started the number of deaths was about the same as would have died in China in a single 'normal' day. Most of those people in Wuhan and surrounding areas. Given that in an epidemic, numbers of infected and dead rise very rapidly most of those deaths would have happened within the previous few days.

There's no way that the crematorium system in any country could handle that number of corpses and building new crematoria is not the same as erecting a load of prefab huts!

Final thought, there's no point in disposing of bodies in this way unless two conditions can be met:
1) ALL the bodies must be disposed of in order to conceal the effects.
2) ALL the families, friends, co-workers, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers and children of all the dead would have to agree to keep the secret.

Final final thought. Sulfur dioxide is a pollutant that comes from burning coal to generate electricity. Guess what is going on in China right now?
More electricity is being generated because much of the population is being confined to their homes when normally they'd be out at work. Many businesses and factories will still have the lights turned on and be using electricity even if they are not doing very much. Result: more electricity and more pollution.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 11, 2020, 04:25:50 PM
WHO officials estimate that about 2% of cases are fatal.

As I *was* travelling to China in April, I've done some reading on this. The real fatality numbers from those infected are actually 3%. Maybe 4% accounting for possible Chinese lying. But most of those are the old, infirm, diabetic, compromised immune systems, etc.

Strong and healthy people will overcome it as any pneumonia or bronchitis.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 11, 2020, 06:38:31 PM
WHO officials estimate that about 2% of cases are fatal.

As I *was* travelling to China in April, I've done some reading on this. The real fatality numbers from those infected are actually 3%. Maybe 4% accounting for possible Chinese lying. But most of those are the old, infirm, diabetic, compromised immune systems, etc.

Strong and healthy people will overcome it as any pneumonia or bronchitis.

While it is often the case when germs go rampant, those who have a sickness or weakened immune system will often be the first to succumb to the infection.  That "whistleblower" doctor who got infected and died did not seem weak or old.  Did he have some kind of weakened immune system?  If so, then why was he in the medical profession where the workplace is often contaminated?   Most of the deaths from the flu in this country are often the aged or pre-adult population.  But, mature adults can also get ill or possibly die too.  Otherwise, why bother with getting the flu vaccination every year?   :-\

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1300-people-died-flu-year/story?id=67754182
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 11, 2020, 08:53:53 PM
The sulfur dioxide propaganda makes no sense.


So you make up your own propaganda that makes sense to you.


Crematoria don't just spring up from nowhere, they are built to serve the needs of the community in which they are situated. There's an absolute limit on the number of bodies that can be burned in any given period and it is not much higher than the normal quantity.


You must've missed the story about the crematoriums are working 24/7

There's a reason why funerals are planned in advance - it is so that a slot for burning the body can be booked at the crematorium.


You must've missed the story where China says there will be no funerals for infected bodies and all infected bodies get cremated.

There's no way that the crematorium system in any country could handle that number of corpses and building new crematoria is not the same as erecting a load of prefab huts!


Do you think the Chinese let the bodies pile up or do you think they figured out there's more than one way to start a fire? Maybe a coal burning incinerator may work to burn bodies?

Final final thought. Sulfur dioxide is a pollutant that comes from burning coal to generate electricity. Guess what is going on in China right now?
More electricity is being generated because much of the population is being confined to their homes when normally they'd be out at work. Many businesses and factories will still have the lights turned on and be using electricity even if they are not doing very much. Result: more electricity and more pollution.

More stuff you're making up to validate your beliefs. Take a look at numbers among industrial nations vs nations where there's high unemployment, low production and people stay at home more. People going to work at factories causes more pollution and uses much more fossil fuels. When everybody goes to work in a powered up factory or building, their homes are still being heated when they are gone.

With some of China's provinces reporting thousands of infections, hundreds of recoveries and zero deaths, you can remain one of the sheeple they successfully fooled.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 11, 2020, 09:09:40 PM
What may come out of all this eventually is a discussion about eating stuff like bat (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7), snake, dog, turtle, numerous large insects and more likely ant-eating Pangolins (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00364-2).


The WHO has not identified an animal source for the coronavirus. Although China pinpointed the blame on animals sold an illegal meat market, the WHO has not agreed. Has any animal out there actually been confirmed to be carrying 2019-nCoV? I've heard snakes, then bats and now exotic cats are to blame. Are they just guessing or spreading misinformation? China should invites some specialists from other nations to help figure this out but I suspect they want to handle it on their own.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 12, 2020, 05:48:18 PM
Quote
Plus, US hospitals are already facing a bad flu season. At least 22 million people have gotten the flu since October 1, 2019, and 12,000 have died.

https://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-workers-getting-coronavirus-500-infected-2020-2

12,000 versus 1,000 dead.  So which one is the greater threat?   ??? :-\
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 12, 2020, 06:53:32 PM

Nearly 16,000 new cases of infections today which is the biggest one day jump ever.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

The WHO gives the virus a new name so it doesn't offend or apply a stigma to a certain group people or animals.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/coronavirus-gets-official-name-who-covid-19-n1134756

https://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-workers-getting-coronavirus-500-infected-2020-2


At least 500 medical workers infected and a possible 600 more could be infected. Incompetent management endangering the lives of employees and patients. I've seen plenty of photos of Chinese medical workers and they wear simple masks which can't stop the virus 100% of the time. The ones who are best qualified to give medical attention should be the ones most protected since they are around the virus everyday and are critical in stopping it and saving lives. Are cows still more valuable than human life in China these days?

Quote
Plus, US hospitals are already facing a bad flu season. At least 22 million people have gotten the flu since October 1, 2019, and 12,000 have died.

12,000 versus 1,000 dead.  So which one is the greater threat?   ??? :-\


12,000 out of 22 million infected died from flu. One out of every 1833 people infected by the flu virus died. Which virus is the greater threat? If you were to get infected this year from a virus and you had a choice, would you want the flu virus or the new coronavirus? You have the answer to your question.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 13, 2020, 03:19:38 AM
Could someone inform our Sully Billy that the 'jump' is down to a new reporting methodology.


It should NOT be used as a suggestion that infections have suddenly gone through the roof.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 13, 2020, 10:34:13 AM
Could someone inform our Sully Billy that the 'jump' is down to a new reporting methodology.


You can believe a new and improved reporting method is used if you want. Due to public pressure based off poor government handling of the virus, China fired high level officials and replaced them. Although they increased the infected and death count by a huge jump with the new management's blessing, they're still lying.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-reports-spike-in-virus-cases-with-new-way-of-counting/ar-BBZWN53?ocid=spartanntp

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 13, 2020, 03:45:53 PM


You can believe a new and improved reporting method is used if you want. Due to public pressure based off poor government handling of the virus, China fired high level officials and replaced them. Although they increased the infected and death count by a huge jump with the new management's blessing, they're still lying.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-reports-spike-in-virus-cases-with-new-way-of-counting/ar-BBZWN53?ocid=spartanntp

On what do you base your theory ..? The Chinese state has already put it's hands up to serial errors and some local officials are gone ...


I talk to Chinese people and buy from 'em ... they are back at work and 'apologising' for orders taking 2 days instead of three..   I trust them and the state has certainly been corrupt and inefficient ..  I think they know they're under the spotlight ..

Are the figures accurate - they cannot be ...  but we will have to wait and see if the 'new' numbers fall ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 13, 2020, 06:08:04 PM
The cure has been found.   :-\

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-lab-says-discovered-coronavirus-123356925.html

Quote
"They cannot produce the medicine they need because of the sanctions,"

https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-wuhan-coronavirus-outbreak-handle-medical-supplies-2020-2

Even without the sanctions, I don't think it would matter.   (:)

Quote
Though trade in pangolin meat and scales has been banned internationally, domestic sales of medicines containing pangolin scales are still allowed in China.

https://qz.com/africa/1802364/coronavirus-pangolins-endangered-by-chinese-trade-a-carrier/

That's what you get for picking on things smaller than you are.   :chuckle: :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 13, 2020, 07:03:57 PM
The cure has been found.   :-\

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-lab-says-discovered-coronavirus-123356925.html


Announcing a cure will get people to buy their stock. Very clever. The article said they found a cure in 3 hours. That means they have not even tested the stuff in a human body to see if it'll do what they claim it does.

I don't recommend the site below but I went through their ladies living in Wuhan in link below. Just wondering if the virus ruined potential relationships they were developing with foreign men.

https://www.loveme.com/invar/search.new.php
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 13, 2020, 08:17:19 PM

Reports out of North Korea says the coronavirus is there. N Korea is ill equipped to handle a crisis. They was one of the first to close the border with China but smugglers still get products and people in and out. N Korea government still doesn't report any infections or deaths from this virus.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-reportedly-spread-north-korea-163908984.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 14, 2020, 03:08:02 AM
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201903/14/WS5c89be4ba3106c65c34ee98a.html

Nearly 3 million a year in China die from Cardiovascular disease .. no big news story there? A few hundred from some cold virus the world comes to an end.. :laugh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 14, 2020, 06:23:30 AM
Billy is not the only one confused by numbers.

The Chinese have taken a very sensible step. They are classifying anybody with a CT scan showing symptoms of pneumonia as having Covid-19. This change applies only in the Hubei region and not to the rest of China.

This will create a short term hump in numbers due to the reclassification but then the rate of increase will return to whatever it was before, plus any additional due to flu etc. As this group is tested the numbers will tend to fall away to a greater or lesser degree given that some, perhaps many, will turn out to just be suffering from flu.

There are several reasons why this step has been taken.
1) Precaution. Better safe than sorry.
2) China does not have free healthcare. People pay around 50% of the costs of healthcare. The government from the outset made it clear that Coronavirus sufferers would receive free healthcare but folks who thought they had a dose of flu or even pneumonia might well have chosen to stay away from the health service for cost reasons. That disincentive has now been removed.
3) There is a hard limit on the number of tests that can be carried out and there is a delay between administration of the test and getting a result. It has been suggested that the number of tests that can be carried out per day is only around 6000. That limits the number of new cases that can be identified by testing to around 3000 per day given that a positive test results in a confirmation test in order to reduce the incidence of false positives.

The death rate attributed to Covid-19 will now increase for a time as people who have been reclassified die of influenza or pneumonia. Their deaths will be attributed to Covid-19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 14, 2020, 10:32:27 AM
A translator bird I know left Guangzhou to go hide out with her folks in the countryside for a few weeks. Bored to tears at home, she went to do some work in Suzhou for a few days. On her return the local authority has told her to stay at home for another 14 days and a guy calls round twice a day to bleep her temperature. She is bored at home but it's better than being sick.

On the upside, she now has lots of time on her hands to make lots of phone calls to factories, etc for me. Every cloud....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 14, 2020, 11:12:04 AM
And the temperature monitoring makes sure they stay at home. Enforces the quarantine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 14, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
Quote
“Our constitution guarantees freedom. I didn’t understand why I had to stay in a hospital cage.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-woman-sued-escaping-coronavirus-quarantine-short-circuit-lock-2020-2

The virus has crossed into Russia.   :-X
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 14, 2020, 06:55:06 PM
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201903/14/WS5c89be4ba3106c65c34ee98a.html

Nearly 3 million a year in China die from Cardiovascular disease .. no big news story there? A few hundred from some cold virus the world comes to an end.. :laugh:

Even more die in China from cigarettes, drugs, and other bad habits. More die from cold and flu but we continue to live with open borders and conduct business as usual. But this coronavirus is a modern day plague. If the current death and recovery rates hold and everybody in the world gets the virus once, over a billion people will die. There are smart people that can do the math and understand how much more dangerous this new virus is compared to the other hazards humans experience. That is why China quarantined tens of millions of people and nations have closed their borders with China.

A translator bird I know left Guangzhou to go hide out with her folks in the countryside for a few weeks. Bored to tears at home, she went to do some work in Suzhou for a few days. On her return the local authority has told her to stay at home for another 14 days and a guy calls round twice a day to bleep her temperature. She is bored at home but it's better than being sick.

On the upside, she now has lots of time on her hands to make lots of phone calls to factories, etc for me. Every cloud....

I'm sure a lot of people are hurting in China not knowing when things will come back to normal. My mom reads news coming out of Asia and rich people are bribing guards with success to allow their families out of quarantined areas.

The Chinese have taken a very sensible step. They are classifying anybody with a CT scan showing symptoms of pneumonia as having Covid-19. This change applies only in the Hubei region and not to the rest of China.

The death rate attributed to Covid-19 will now increase for a time as people who have been reclassified die of influenza or pneumonia. Their deaths will be attributed to Covid-19.

A very sensible step? You continue to drink the Kool Aid coming from state controlled news. China announce to the world in 2020 a new virus when it actually came out in 2019. Then they arrested anybody spreading fake true news. Then they took a lot of heat from their own people and smart people outside of China complaining the numbers are far too low based on the amount of people getting sick and getting cremated. So China fired their medical experts in charge, appointed new management who says they are going to count people who are not known to be infected as if they are infected which is the reason for the big jump in numbers. They got you fooled. Please stop trying to defend China's handling of this outbreak. Their coverup is the reason there is such a big outbreak to begin with. Action and education early on might have prevented this outbreak. Some countries, including America, have offered to send teams of their best experts to help combat the virus in China and China has refused. This virus has costed a lot in human life and in financial losses yet China refuses help that could help them reverse their losses. So what if thousands more die and billions of Yuan is lost. Their actions speak volumes. What is your silly explanation/excuse for why China is refusing help?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 14, 2020, 07:24:06 PM

3 days ago the South China Morning Post suspected 500 medical workers are infected and a possible 600 more are infected.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3050077/least-500-wuhan-medical-staff-infected-coronavirus

Today, for the first time ever, China puts out a statement that over 1700 of their medical workers are infected. That number is worse than the rumors. Gross negligence of the management putting medical workers lives in jeopardy by not giving them the protective gear they need.

https://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-workers-getting-coronavirus-500-infected-2020-2
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 15, 2020, 12:49:40 AM
[insults removed]

BillyB, You have this BAD habit of making assertions that you cannot know about - yet are also v.quick to tell others they shouldn't trust what they hear from untraceable sources ..

If this virus comes to the UK / US in serious numbers - do you think 'we' have enough 'hazsuits et al ' to cope for long ? Wasn't China asking for help with supplies?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 15, 2020, 08:04:02 AM
Not good... Infuriating actually:

https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2020/02/14/expert-china-has-global-chokehold-on-medicine-can-shut-down-our-pharmacies-hospitals-in-months/

China could effectively shut down America’s healthcare system within months given the one-party state’s “global chokehold” on the manufacturing of medicines and medical supplies, explained Rosemary Gibson, author of China Rx: Exposing the Risks of America’s Dependence on China for Medicine.

Gibson, senior adviser at the Hastings Center, offered her remarks on Thursday’s edition of SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight with host Rebecca MansMansour noted how the coronavirus outbreak in China has exposed America’s dangerous dependence on Chinese production of pharmaceutical and medical supplies, including an estimated 97 percent of all antibiotics and 80 percent of the active pharmaceutical ingredients needed for domestic drug production.

Gibson said, “If China shuts the door on exports of medicines and the ingredients to make them, within a couple of months our pharmacies would be empty. Our healthcare system would cease to function. That’s how dependent we are.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 15, 2020, 09:13:44 AM
BillyB, You have this BAD habit of making assertions that you cannot know about - yet are also v.quick to tell others they shouldn't trust what they hear from untraceable sources ..


We're dealing with a Communist country, not yours or mine. The level of trust in ones government varies. Do you trust North Korea they have ZERO infections? When Chinese people say the government stated infection and death rate were low, they were right after China put out an official statement a couple of days ago. When people say lots of medical workers don't have enough protective gear and are getting infected, they were more than right after China put out an official statement yesterday. Where were they wrong? China is still probably low with their estimates of those infected and dead.

If this virus comes to the UK / US in serious numbers - do you think 'we' have enough 'hazsuits et al ' to cope for long ?


Our Western doctors would evaluate a patient and sound an alarm without getting silenced and this virus won't infect in large numbers. Our hospitals have protocols for dealing with new, unknown viruses and diseases and will take appropriate action to protect the most important people to defeating it. Or they can risk massive lawsuits. Unfortunately the families of the medical workers sacrificed in China aren't as lucky in making their hospitals and government accountable.

Wasn't China asking for help with supplies?


Of course they asked for help and Western nations have given help. America pledged up to 100 million dollars in aid but China has refused the help of medical and scientific experts. That has led to Trump criticizing China. China does want to beat the virus but they will not allow people in who will tell the truth about what they seen.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/482096-us-pledges-100-million-to-help-fight-coronavirus

When China dealt with the bird and swine flus, they killed millions of animals. When an outbreak happens, the FIRST thing you do is find the source and eliminate the source which will help with reducing numbers of infections and preventing the outbreak from happening again. China State news put out rumors the source was from a meat market. Has the government gone in and identified an animal that carried it yet and eliminated it's stock? NO. There has not been a single animal that was diagnosed as a carrier of this virus.

A few years ago, experts didn't like the idea of China creating a laboratory to house the worlds most deadliest diseases in Wuhan. They didn't think China would be able to stop the escape of a deadly virus based off knowledge of their construction and handling practices of those viruses. Has China put out a statement confirming the new coronavirus was never housed in their facility? Here's a 2017 article about the Wuhan lab.

https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 15, 2020, 01:54:11 PM
America pledged up to 100 million dollars in aid

They don't need your money. Their economy is bigger than yours.

but China has refused the help of medical and scientific experts.

They have medical and scientific experts.

That has led to Trump criticizing China.

Is the orange dotard a virus specialist? No, he is a slum landlord made good. He isnt qualified to criticise them. Better he concentrates on that wall between you guys and Mexico.

China does want to beat the virus but they will not allow people in who will tell the truth about what they seen.

They won't allow US propaganda, trade wars, and destructive policies to damage their economy further you mean. Also there is a face (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)) issue from accepting help from a defacto enemy.

They likely think the US has nothing to offer them they cant do themselves. They'll break its back in a few weeks and numbers will start to dwindle. They understand the word quarantine and how to do it. I'd doubt the US can offer them anything new or that they can't do themselves.

You lot believe that 'exceptionalism' lark. The rest of the world can get by quite well without your help. Colonel Gaddafi found out the hard way that the US is the scorpion in the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog). China knows that already. That frog will swim alone.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 15, 2020, 03:23:04 PM
Manny has gone hard CCP in his old age and Anti-USA ... No wonder BJismo put the UK USA FTA on the back burner while he works with Manny's lot to see what they can extract from Huawei and the CCP belted roads rackets.

So long five eyes alliance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 15, 2020, 03:59:51 PM

They don't need

They have

They won't allow

They likely think

They'll break its back in a few weeks and numbers will start to dwindle.

They understand the word quarantine and how to do it.

China knows that


Manny, did China appoint you their spokesperson? Most nations got this virus under control as soon as they spotted it. China is the only country in this world who doesn't have it under control yet you praise them. They have lost life and it's hurt their economy and destroyed lives of Chinese citizens yet you claim they know what they're doing and don't need help. Again, they are the ONLY country in the world that lost control of this virus and mishandled it when if first showed up. Maybe N Korea lost control too but they aren't talking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 15, 2020, 04:15:22 PM

They don't need

They have

They won't allow

They likely think

They'll break its back in a few weeks and numbers will start to dwindle.

They understand the word quarantine and how to do it.

China knows that


Manny, did China appoint you their spokesperson?

I understand Chinese mentality to some extent. I've been there many times. I have friends there. I do business there. My WeChat feed (like FB) is full of stuff each day that cumulatively gives me a good sense of what people think about topics of the day and the general opinion going on. 

Address the post, not the poster.

Deal with facts not feelings.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 15, 2020, 04:17:39 PM
Manny has gone hard CCP in his old age and Anti-USA ... No wonder BJismo put the UK USA FTA on the back burner while he works with Manny's lot to see what they can extract from Huawei and the CCP belted roads rackets.

So long five eyes alliance.

Truth hurts, eh Cuffy?

Again, address the post and not the poster. Deal with facts not feelings.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 15, 2020, 04:44:46 PM

I was born in a Communist country. I have family and friends born in a Communist country and lived there longer than I. We are not surprised the Chinese hid the truth and lied about numbers for the sole reason of protecting their image so others don't go around thinking they are incompetent. It is yet to be determined if other nations are just as incompetent as China allowing the virus to get out of control and allowing thousands of their medical workers to get infected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 15, 2020, 04:53:51 PM
America pledged up to 100 million dollars in aid

They don't need your money. Their economy is bigger than yours.

but China has refused the help of medical and scientific experts.

They have medical and scientific experts.

That has led to Trump criticizing China.

Is the orange dotard a virus specialist? No, he is a slum landlord made good. He isnt qualified to criticise them. Better he concentrates on that wall between you guys and Mexico.

China does want to beat the virus but they will not allow people in who will tell the truth about what they seen.

They won't allow US propaganda, trade wars, and destructive policies to damage their economy further you mean. Also there is a face (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)) issue from accepting help from a defacto enemy.

They likely think the US has nothing to offer them they cant do themselves. They'll break its back in a few weeks and numbers will start to dwindle. They understand the word quarantine and how to do it. I'd doubt the US can offer them anything new or that they can't do themselves.

You lot believe that 'exceptionalism' lark. The rest of the world can get by quite well without your help. Colonel Gaddafi found out the hard way that the US is the scorpion in the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog). China knows that already. That frog will swim alone.....

Scorpion and the Frog? I love that parable. You’re very warm but the Scorpion is the Rothschild bankers and Israel, who control the USA and the U.K. We’re the frog. The parasite bankers and zio’s are the Scorpion. However since they control our government secretly, what you wrote appears to be the truth. But not quite.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 15, 2020, 08:03:22 PM
Confed makes a real point as the CoL owns the major central banks and the Fed and rules the financial world so as long as western businessmen can arbitrate Chinese slave labor and sell to western tradesmen flipping inflating properties as long as the central bank's keep inflating their money supplies then all is good till the day those global currency bubbles burst and the Red Dragon rears it's racist anti western head and demands deep belt and road/5G debt diplomacy tribute and treats all of its belt and road partners like sheep to shear and pigs to slaughter...

And then you all do a collective oopsie by then likely to be too late as Noram has to divorce from all the countries foolishly adopting Huawei backdoor data and privacy surveillance infrastructure and we have to dismantle 5 eyes intel sharing and integrated commerce.

Fortunately there is gold, silver and crypto to tide us over but you lot will just wake up and find you are Communist Red China's beatches as they wiil own your vaunted empire and British Commonwealth Colonies.

This is the Communist Red Chinese CCP thousand grains of sand debt diplomacy in action...  By then the USA will have 50% tariffs on all CCP and British Communist Commonwealth and European Communist Union goods and services and pay off our national debt and live very prosperous lives like our founding fathers did for the first 100 years of the USA with no income or sales taxes.

You make your bed with the voracious Red Dragon don't come crying to us like you lot did twice in the 20th Century to save your arses.

With the USMCA and 100% tariffs every manufacturer that wants to sell in the NORAM Markets will build new factories here.

Enjoy your Red Dragon buggering.  I love how this forum proves time and again how you UK and EU empirists hate the Good Old USA... Fine by me really as there is nothing from China, UK or EU empires that we can not manufacture here with unlimited land, energy and resources.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 16, 2020, 01:51:03 AM

Address the post, not the poster.

Deal with facts not feelings.

Quote of the millennium
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 16, 2020, 01:58:21 AM
Thought thread is about the virus not more 'wacko; anti-Semitic bollox ?

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 16, 2020, 11:06:43 AM
Whoa...

HUBEI DOCTORS WARN OF EVEN-DEADLIER CORONAVIRUS REINFECTION CAUSING SUDDEN HEART ATTACKS

‘It can fool the test kit – there were cases they found, CT scan shows both lungs fully infected but test came back negative four times,’ says scientist

https://www.infowars.com/hubei-doctors-warn-of-even-deadlier-coronavirus-reinfection-causing-sudden-heart-attacks/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 16, 2020, 12:21:40 PM
'Ri-ight'..

Infowars, Breibart, The Local..


Just the sort of sites posting 'news' with no agenda at all.....




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 16, 2020, 11:47:23 PM

Almost all of China's 70,000 movie theaters are closed and could cost the movie industry a billion dollars.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/no-time-die-chinese-premiere-195232525.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 17, 2020, 02:29:09 AM
 BillyB

I think folks could spare missing out on the latest movies...


In the meantime....

I ordered prototype PCBs with some components already surface mounted and other components that are mounted differently...So I will have them delivered to Georgia....as in the country.

They didn't have all the components, so the first order was rejected.


They contacted me over the weekend to say..."we can do it..." The stuff will be with you on Friday."


That's Shenzhen.

All the people I normally deal with managed to respond ...I do not know if they are working from home...

But somehow, they are coping.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 17, 2020, 06:39:42 AM
Cufflinks your two 'quotes' above' have a different context.

The issue of false negatives AND a lack of test kits/slow turnaround times were the reasons why the government chose to amend the diagnostic criteria. Where a CT scan shows significant congestion in the lungs (similar to pneumonia) the patient is now classified as carrying Covid-19 and treated as such.

The issue of reinfection is a different and serious matter but is likely to affect only the already weakened - so the old and infirm who are already the primary fatal victims. It seems to be rather misleading to state that the reinfection is 'even more deadly' - it isn't. Only a few people are affected in this way, although, of course, for those people the outcome is deadly, the reinfection itself is NOT more deadly than the initial infection.

To be fair both the Infowars link and their source, the Taiwan News site make the same conflation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 17, 2020, 10:14:13 PM

760 million people, one tenth the world's population is under lockdown in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/business/china-coronavirus-lockdown.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 17, 2020, 10:29:47 PM
 Shocking video out of China showing what the Medical workers are going through. And they're saying the deaths and contamination are much worse than what the govt is revealing.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 17, 2020, 10:54:31 PM
deaths and contamination are much worse than what the govt is revealing.


Just over 4000 people on a cruise ship spent a short time together and now 454 of those people are infected and the count rises daily. That's how fast and easy this virus can spread. Some Chinese provinces report thousands of infections, over 500 recoveries and zero deaths while another Chinese province report 1 death to every 4 recoveries. There is lying going on. Some reports, if not all reporting are lies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 17, 2020, 11:39:19 PM
Harvard scientist connected to Wuhan. Oh and he’s also an elite Choo. He was getting 50K a month from China.


https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/02/01/an-american-chemist-is-suspected-of-illegal-dealings-with-china
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 18, 2020, 12:26:42 AM
deaths and contamination are much worse than what the govt is revealing.


Just over 4000 people on a cruise ship spent a short time together and now 454 of those people are infected and the count rises daily. That's how fast and easy this virus can spread. Some Chinese provinces report thousands of infections, over 500 recoveries and zero deaths while another Chinese province report 1 death to every 4 recoveries. There is lying going on. Some reports, if not all reporting are lies.

(VLOG #59) Tuesday 18th Feb. 8:15am

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 18, 2020, 12:40:46 AM
760 million people, one tenth the world's population is under lockdown in China.

Actually, most factories are being given permission to reopen, some with admin staff working from home to minimise mingling.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 18, 2020, 01:55:36 AM
Not good... Infuriating actually:

https://www.breitbart.com/radio/2020/02/14/expert-china-has-global-chokehold-on-medicine-can-shut-down-our-pharmacies-hospitals-in-months/

China could effectively shut down America’s healthcare system within months given the one-party state’s “global chokehold” on the manufacturing of medicines and medical supplies, explained Rosemary Gibson, author of China Rx: Exposing the Risks of America’s Dependence on China for Medicine.

Gibson, senior adviser at the Hastings Center, offered her remarks on Thursday’s edition of SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Tonight with host Rebecca MansMansour noted how the coronavirus outbreak in China has exposed America’s dangerous dependence on Chinese production of pharmaceutical and medical supplies, including an estimated 97 percent of all antibiotics and 80 percent of the active pharmaceutical ingredients needed for domestic drug production.

Gibson said, “If China shuts the door on exports of medicines and the ingredients to make them, within a couple of months our pharmacies would be empty. Our healthcare system would cease to function. That’s how dependent we are.”

The truth is out from the Horses.... errr "cufflinks" mouth which makes the Great American.....err .. "Vietnam born".. Patriot BillyB to spout his hate for Communistic China!

BillyB, Manny spelled out to you the USA overdependence of your Health and other industries  and without their cheap products.......your could not compete in the international markets.

Manny also already told you that China has a much larger and healthy economy than the US who depends on it's Dollar but at the same time the US has 23 trillion dollars debt, which I may guess has no intention to pay. Basically you only have toilet paper circulating around the markets. Soon or later........ the vulture funds will start investing in other economies who have huge cold reserve for security.

The end of your USA Empire is not far.......



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 18, 2020, 08:51:21 AM
Wizzbanger must have refilled his meds and now able to attack his keyboard and the rest of the interwebs.

No worries.. the Viking Teutonic God King Emporer Trump can solve this rather quickly with 100% tariffs.  All supply chains will eventually relocate away from the predatory Mercantilist Communist Red Chinese if they want access to Noram USMCA markets.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 18, 2020, 09:29:39 AM
Viking Teutonic God King Emporer Trump

I can’t unread that.  :sick0012:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 18, 2020, 09:32:41 AM
Wizzbanger must have refilled his meds and now able to attack his keyboard and the rest of the interwebs.

No worries.. the Viking Teutonic God King Emporer Trump can solve this rather quickly with 100% tariffs.  All supply chains will eventually relocate away from the predatory Mercantilist Communist Red Chinese if they want access to Noram USMCA markets.

Cuffy have you been on holidays lately........to recharge your pale colours and refresh your cluttered memory?

I have been to Cyprus Sunshine and charged my batteries well .... but you still playing catch up games.

Mr Einstein, tell me ... if your International Criminal murderer Boss slaps 100% taxes.... who do you think will pay and suffer from them and whose markets will suffer?

I will give you a clue! The people of USA and not the communists in the China Government or its people.

You need to educate yourself in economics and other matters.

(http://www.yannis.me.uk/PHOTOS/E/Emotikons_RUA/have_nice_day.gif)

             :P :P :P

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 18, 2020, 10:13:24 AM
Wizzbang illogic on full display... Of course you know how predatory capitalism works... Steal patents and intellectual property... Manufacture in bulk quantities, dump at prices 70% below cost to bankrupt targeted suppliers then buy them out of bankruptcy to now own the pirated ip then mark up to 1000% of manufacturing costs and gouge consumers with drastically increased predatory prices since domestic competition eliminated.

This is why God King Emporer Trump's tariffs are so effective... Stops this predatory Mercantilist behavior at the border...

Who taught us this ... The British Empirists of course who forbade the USA from manufacturing a wide range of goods and arms to protect British industries which resulted in British invasions and burning our cities in 1776, 1812 and supporting the CSA in the 1860s.

Though Wizz likes to play the ignorant Jew and USA hating troglodite he clearly knows better.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 18, 2020, 10:24:12 AM
Viking Teutonic God King Emporer Trump

I can’t unread that.  :sick0012:

LOLOLOL... When I was on contract in Warrington UK some of the local lads would go to Viking Reenactments since you lot were ruled and inseminated by Vikings for 800 years so the Glorious God King Emporer Trump is in fact one of your own put here by Divine Providence to save the Anglosphere from it's folly with the evil satanic Communist Red Dragon.

Your kick ass cowboy and hip hop cousins riding to the rescue again...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 18, 2020, 12:02:22 PM
Do you remember the days when you could go out for a drink on the "Slate" ? It was common in my village..

Could even pop down to the local grocery store and put some things on mothers account.. :laugh:

Who stopped all of this? Who decided you cannot do this anymore>? Can you imagine going down the local today and asking for a few pints on the slate until you got paid.. they would think you have a mental problem :laugh:

I can remember when I was a youngster everyone used to hitch all over the UK it was common to drive along and see a Hitch hiker .. doesn't happen anymore... if your seen hitching your view upon as a social misfit..  :laugh: Who actually decided you cannot hitch a lift? Who decided you would be classed as a social misfit? I do not remember voting for them!!

When I was at school and you needed a piss there was just two options "Boys". or "Girls" Now there is a third option  ???

Im not sure what is happening to humans over the last few decades , I would say governments are trying to take any power away from most and domesticate people so they are so pathetic a little scratch and they need to post all over the social media how bad they are feeling how they cannot make it in to work..

Trains in the UK? Well do you know what one bloody leaf on the track and the country comes to a halt you have millions of retards with a mobile phone stuck to their faces posting on all the social media how their day has been ruined.. I does not take much to ruin peoples day today.. just call some one a "Ginger haird *snip*" and they are already nearly dead, wanting compensation, crying to the lawyer ..

What way is the human race going ? I think most are turning into a breed of half wit useless degenerates .. it is a good job all the famous explorers discovered the new worlds a few hundred years ago when humans were humans and they do not have to do it today...


I think the sooner a super virus comes or a big rock hits the planet the better .. the human race needs one hell of a big cull , some thing needs to happen to wake people up from their boring domesticated lives living fantasies on such things as Instagram and all the other crap going on..

It will happen soon enough and when it does I wonder how many of these stupid people will be able to survive..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 18, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
welllll too bad for big pharma.

some doctor discovered that a malaria vaccine invented over 70 years ago will put you back on the path to health and corona will be purged from your system
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 18, 2020, 02:02:38 PM
Wizzbang illogic on full display... Of course you know how predatory capitalism works... Steal patents and intellectual property... Manufacture in bulk quantities, dump at prices 70% below cost to bankrupt targeted suppliers then buy them out of bankruptcy to now own the pirated ip then mark up to 1000% of manufacturing costs and gouge consumers with drastically increased predatory prices since domestic competition eliminated.

This is why God King Emporer Trump's tariffs are so effective... Stops this predatory Mercantilist behavior at the border...

Who taught us this ... The British Empirists of course who forbade the USA from manufacturing a wide range of goods and arms to protect British industries which resulted in British invasions and burning our cities in 1776, 1812 and supporting the CSA in the 1860s.

Though Wizz likes to play the ignorant Jew and USA hating troglodite he clearly knows better.

Caffy BS merchant, you should know better to lock your door......because you do not have protection in perpetuity from Mafia to collect profits for your intellectual property and some clever people will copy and improve and manufacture your idea/product and due to their human size will keep their currency to uncompetitive  levels for you, so you try to take advantage by asking them to manufacture your idea.......and you lose in both ends.

As it happens your competitors soon starts using the currency they earned for producing cheap products for you and they start buying all your important assets in your own country. Invading small countries killing and stealing their assets is not productive, your financial model for your industry it's useless and not working anymore and death as a result is on the horizon and  very imminent!   

As it happens you allowed a small gang to take over control of your country and milk you for ever....and now you cry foul.

Buy buy my darling!

Time for you to go back to the Devils island to redesign your future......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 18, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
welllll too bad for big pharma.

some doctor discovered that a malaria vaccine invented over 70 years ago will put you back on the path to health and corona will be purged from your system

Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 18, 2020, 04:00:02 PM
welllll too bad for big pharma.

some doctor discovered that a malaria vaccine invented over 70 years ago will put you back on the path to health and corona will be purged from your system

Do you have a link?

so far dutch only. it contained the specific name of the drug too. it was on nu.nl which is a horrible news site

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nu.nl/buitenland/6031723/86-jaar-oud-malariamiddel-werkt-tegen-door-coronavirus-veroorzaakte-ziekte.amp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 18, 2020, 07:09:10 PM
the US has 23 trillion dollars debt, which I may guess has no intention to pay. Basically you only have toilet paper circulating around the markets. Soon or later........ the vulture funds will start investing in other economies who have huge cold reserve for security.

The end of your USA Empire is not far.......

Wiz, quit reading articles that are designed to make you feel better about where you live. Most of America's debt is to ourselves. When it comes to international debt, we are owed more than we owe. It makes sense because we have the most money to loan or give as free aid. It's the reason America has controlling shares of the IMF and World Bank. The economy is stronger than ever here. That's the truth but sometimes I feel some of you try hard to convince yourselves America is on the decline.

Anyway 542 people on the cruise ship is now infected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 18, 2020, 09:11:47 PM

Activist arrested for criticizing Chinese President Xi over coronavirus handling.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-legal-activist-who-called-on-xi-to-give-way-arrested-activists/ar-BB105erR?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 19, 2020, 01:26:35 AM
the US has 23 trillion dollars debt, which I may guess has no intention to pay. Basically you only have toilet paper circulating around the markets. Soon or later........ the vulture funds will start investing in other economies who have huge cold reserve for security.

The end of your USA Empire is not far.......

Wiz, quit reading articles that are designed to make you feel better about where you live. Most of America's debt is to ourselves. When it comes to international debt, we are owed more than we owe. It makes sense because we have the most money to loan or give as free aid. It's the reason America has controlling shares of the IMF and World Bank. The economy is stronger than ever here. That's the truth but sometimes I feel some of you try hard to convince yourselves America is on the decline.

Anyway 542 people on the cruise ship is now infected.

I suggest before posting any comments about the USA  debts..... to check and verify your comments........from reliable sources.

Why Russia and India do not have Dollar reserves and buy Gold with all Dollars Earnings from trade.....instead?

What are you going to do if China decides to cash YOUR $500 Billion Government Bonds in their hands and how you are you going to pay them...... you have almost no Gold reserves as you have sold them in long term contracts. It has taken you 2 years to return the gold deposits of Germany, whom you never let them check their deposits.

I suggest you go reading and you will find the truth from American sources and NOT mine!

BTW when it was the last time you paid your contribution to IMF and World Bank?
Last time Russia offered to pay your unpaid contributions and take the Majority share! Have you paid it yet?

Finally didn't you read what MarkJ posted about the coronavirus?

You have selective Reading and you are daily brainwashed by your corrupt Jewish Media and Masters.

Have a nice day and look behind you.... Ho Chi Min is after you!

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 19, 2020, 09:04:42 AM


I suggest before posting any comments about the USA  debts..... to check and verify your comments........from reliable sources.


Hilarious



Wiz the cribber of other peoples' scribes  - except when it's 'their opinions - when he realises he's pushing Holocaust denial tells BillyB he should check his sources  - priceless  :'(

Neither of you are Micro-biologists - nor studied ( and qualified) in  Human Biology to an advanced level  ...and BOY does it show ....


For those seeking data - bearing in mind it's  better to look at trends for a semblance of accuracy,  :

Feb 18th report from WHO

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200218-sitrep-29-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6262de9e_2 (https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200218-sitrep-29-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6262de9e_2)

For those worried about parcels from China ...  YUP - some folks are THAT daft

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters)




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 19, 2020, 07:41:43 PM

What are you going to do if China decides to cash YOUR $500 Billion Government Bonds in their hands and how you are you going to pay them


The reason China buys American bonds/America debt is not to help America. They want to help themselves! By making the dollar stronger, China makes their currency stronger. Their currency is tightly tied to the American dollar. People insisting they cash in the bonds to hurt America are naïve. They'd be hurting themselves if they try to hurt the dollar. Also by China owning so of our debt, they are less likely to get in a war with us since we'll cancel our debt with them.

In the link below is a chart. Shows how American debt is split up. Most of our debt is owed to ourselves so no big deal.

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-we-owe-federal-debt-to-2013-10

In the link below is a chart of America's external debt and who owes America. Most nations have debt and many are in debt to America. You will find America is owed over 50% more than we owe others.

https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/money-finance/debts-owed-by-the-us-and-owed-to-the-us/

If some of you have $2000 debt on your credit cards average a month and your employer owes you $4000 a month in paychecks, some knucklehead is going to claim you're on the edge of bankruptcy. When it comes to America, don't be a knucklehead. Get educated by reliable sources that aren't agenda or conspiracy driven.

621 infected on cruise ship. Seems like an out of control situation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 19, 2020, 10:19:18 PM


Wang Zhonglin, the Wuhan's new Communist party secretary, said that if a single new case was found after Wednesday, the district’s leaders would be held responsible.

Sounds like China is going to make sure the infection rate goes down. Reporting bad news is bad news for the reporter.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/19/coronavirus-outbreak-updates-coronavirus-live-updates-hubei-deaths-china-wuhan-outbreak-japan-diamond-princess-china-business-death-toll-latest-news
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 19, 2020, 10:42:20 PM
BillyB's linksuggests the Russians are taking a v.sympathetic view on those infected ..

"This month Russia’s prime minister, Mikhail Mishustin, said Russia might start deporting foreigners infected with the virus."

"Russia halted most air traffic to China, suspended all trains to China and North Korea, and temporarily stopped issuing work visas to Chinese citizens. Chinese students studying in Russia were told not to return until 1 March."


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 20, 2020, 07:10:30 AM
welllll too bad for big pharma.

some doctor discovered that a malaria vaccine invented over 70 years ago will put you back on the path to health and corona will be purged from your system

Do you have a link?

so far dutch only. it contained the specific name of the drug too. it was on nu.nl which is a horrible news site

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nu.nl/buitenland/6031723/86-jaar-oud-malariamiddel-werkt-tegen-door-coronavirus-veroorzaakte-ziekte.amp

Interesting. The Dutch link translated into English:

Researchers at KU Leuven in Belgium have discovered that an existing malaria drug works against COVID-19, the disease caused by the 2019-nCoV coronavirus. This appears from tests that doctors have conducted in China.

This concerns the chloroquine medicine, which has been on the market since 1934. The Belgian professor Marc Van Ranst already discovered in 2004 that the medicine worked against SARS, which is also a corona virus. He then wondered if the drug would work against COVID-19.

In ten hospitals in Beijing, Hunan and Guangdong, chloroquine has recently been tested on patients with COVID-19. Experts from the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology had good news for Van Ranst on Monday: the drug worked.

Patients in China who were given chloroquine for a week showed less fever, improved lung function, and were sooner virus-free and cured, KU said. Until now, doctors could only fight the symptoms of the virus.

The medicine can be used until a coronavirus vaccine is available. The university is currently working hard on this under the leadership of virologist Johan Neyts. However, it is expected that it will take approximately two years before a vaccine can be applied to humans.

‘Making medicine easy and cheap'

Van Ranst is "pleased that chloroquine works effectively". According to him, the product is "easy to produce in large quantities, even though there are currently few producers worldwide".

"We hope that chloroquine, partly because it is very cheap, can have an worldwide impact on the antiviral treatment of patients with this new corona virus," the scientist said.

Chloroquine was not tested on humans in 2004 because the SARS epidemic had just ended.

——————————————————

The brand name is Resochin, made in India for peanuts it seems.

More here: https://www.shine.cn/biz/economy/2002202403/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 20, 2020, 07:44:18 AM
well at least credit to nu.nl for writing articles that translate easy. usually they just copy from others
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 20, 2020, 03:38:53 PM
Quote
So from today, the earliest you could possibly say you even have a candidate that you could start revving up to make enough to give will be at least a year to a year-and-a-half. The solution to the containment of this current outbreak will not be a vaccine.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/17/new-coronavirus-what-dont-we-know-dr-anthony-fauci-q-a-opinion/4790996002/

Remember, that this is only an opinion, but if true, it will take a much longer time for a vaccine.   :-\ :snivel:

Quote
Q. So why do some relatively young and healthy people like Li Wenliang, the 34-year-old Chinese doctor who tried to sound the alarm, die from COVID-19?

A. Every once in a while, you're going to get an outlier, someone who otherwise looks perfectly healthy. Most likely, their genetic makeup doesn't allow them to respond adequately to flu.

We must have lots of outliers out there.   :duh:
Lots of people died from the bubonic plague.  So does that mean there are lots of defective people in Eurasia?  (:)
Quote
It killed some 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia
  :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 20, 2020, 03:59:15 PM


Remember, that this is only an opinion, but if true, it will take a much longer time for a vaccine.   :-\ :snivel:



As the doctor said, this will not be stopped by a vaccine. The length of time it takes is thus not very important. The important action, as he said, is the work that China is doing to isolate sufferers and reduce contact between people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 20, 2020, 07:34:57 PM
"Russia halted most air traffic to China, suspended all trains to China and North Korea,


North Korea reports no infections yet Russia doesn't trust them. If there is one country this virus can get out of control, it's North Korea. North Korea probably depends on China for most of their medical supplies but China rather use what's available for their own people first.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 21, 2020, 12:00:17 AM
"Russia halted most air traffic to China, suspended all trains to China and North Korea,


North Korea reports no infections yet Russia doesn't trust them. If there is one country this virus can get out of control, it's North Korea. North Korea probably depends on China for most of their medical supplies but China rather use what's available for their own people first.

The post claiming a closed border by Russia is wrong. NK closed all its borders weeks ago as I noted upthread (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28644.msg504834.html#msg504834).

The allegation Russia doesn’t trust NK you just made up. In fact they are friendly neighbours.

I’d suggest NK could enforce a quarantine far more effectively than China in case of need so the idea it could be more rife there is unfounded speculation too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 21, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6032372/oekrainers-bekogelen-bussen-met-uit-wuhan-geevacueerde-landgenoten.html

In short: Ukrainians are trying to stone their fellow citizens evacuated from wuhan despite them having been tested -twice- and found negative for the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 21, 2020, 02:36:23 AM
Also reported on the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation (the BBC): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51581805
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 21, 2020, 03:21:03 AM
The BBC stands for British Broadcasting Cooperation - not  Brexit Broadcasting Corp.  It has reported the awful scenes from Ukraine .. hardly 'biased'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 21, 2020, 03:03:46 PM
The BBC stands for British Broadcasting Cooperation - not  Brexit Broadcasting Corp.  It has reported the awful scenes from Ukraine .. hardly 'biased'

Nobody mentioned Brexit. I said Brussels Broadcasting Corporation. A common bit of banter on Twitter and elsewhere due to their well known and documented extreme pro EU leftist bias.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 21, 2020, 03:47:00 PM
Quote
also warns that rather than outbreak being brought to a conclusive end, as with the coronavirus SARS in 2003, people may have to learn to “co-exist” with the new coronavirus, as they do with the flu.

https://qz.com/1806050/chinese-coronavirus-expert-recovered-patients-may-still-be-infectious/

It will not be over until it is over.   :-\ :duh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 21, 2020, 04:11:38 PM
We do live with SARS. These things don't go away, they just become part of the scenery.

Right now all the retards who wanted to ban vaccines are clamouring for one for Corvid-19. In 30 years time they'll have forgotten why the virus was introduced and start fantasising about people dying from the vaccine.

The average person is pretty dumb. There's lots of average people and almost as many who aspire to be as smart as average.

No matter how many people die in the next few months the virus will burn out and become part of the viral noise that we live with every day.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 21, 2020, 07:29:01 PM
The post claiming a closed border by Russia is wrong. NK closed all its borders weeks ago as I noted upthread (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28644.msg504834.html#msg504834).


Your post said NK closed its border with China, not Russia.

The allegation Russia doesn’t trust NK you just made up. In fact they are friendly neighbours.


They don't seem to trust each other on virus reporting. Russia and NK have reported a total of TWO coronavirus infections among their populations yet they are scared of people coming in from each others borders. Borders and tourism are closed between neighbors who do not have problems with the virus. USA and Canada have a total of 44 infections between the nations and borders are not affected by the coronavirus. I'm sure European neighbors borders are unaffected too. I understand why everybody closed their borders with China who has tens of thousands of infections if not hundreds of thousands.

More young medical professionals die. China's prisoners and prison guards infected. It's getting ugly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-kills-young-wuhan-doctor-as-hundreds-infected-in-chinas-prisons/ar-BB10ebuj?ocid=spartanntp

In case of nuclear or natural disasters, China's leaders have a contingency plan to leave the country. US intelligence has picked up signals that there is talk of that could happen. China has finally allowed medical experts from WHO and America to help but they have been delayed and when they are allowed to enter China, they will not be allowed anywhere near Wuhan.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/with-information-from-china-scarce-us-spies-enlisted-to-track-coronavirus-173612656.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 21, 2020, 10:20:19 PM
Some believe this event can turn into a pandemic and 2/3rds of the world's population can get infected. Some people are carrying the virus for an extended period of time and not show any symptoms of illness as evident on the cruise ship. Without symptoms, they would not be quarantined past a certain amount of  days or at all and walk freely anywhere they want just as we do and while mingling with others, infect them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-outbreak-edges-closer-to-pandemic/ar-BB10fJLZ?ocid=spartanntp

If you're into conspiracy theories, the doctor in the video in the link below has 3 Harvard degrees and many accomplishments and claims China stole a virus from a Canadian lab and took it to their lab in Wuhan. He doesn't believe China let the virus out intentionally though. He said bio warfare viruses are genetically modified to be stronger, live longer, infect easier, and harder to stop. Has China claimed they found the animal or group of animals that were carriers of this new coronavirus yet? If not, the guy may be right.

https://www.transcend.org/tms/2020/02/francis-boyle-wuhan-coronavirus-is-an-offensive-biological-warfare-weapon/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 21, 2020, 10:28:56 PM
The post claiming a closed border by Russia is wrong. NK closed all its borders weeks ago as I noted upthread (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28644.msg504834.html#msg504834).


Your post said NK closed its border with China, not Russia.

You’re right, I wasn’t clear. What I’d heard from someone in NK several weeks ago was that they’d closed all their borders to people. The one with the south is pretty closed anyway, the one with Russia is only 11 miles with minimal traffic, the main one as we know is China.

Anyone entering NK from anywhere now (returning citizens mostly) are being put into 14 days quarantine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 22, 2020, 01:05:57 AM
[this comment along with several others was not permitted because it was trolling and off topic]

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 22, 2020, 09:19:09 AM
Bear in mind that North Korea's borders are usually closed. Folks don't just wander in and out at whim.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 22, 2020, 10:45:17 AM
Bear in mind that North Korea's borders are usually closed. Folks don't just wander in and out at whim.
I wonder why that is? Are the citizens in prison? Is the country some sort of Utopia?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 22, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
Bear in mind that North Korea's borders are usually closed. Folks don't just wander in and out at whim.
I wonder why that is? Are the citizens in prison? Is the country some sort of Utopia?

One might imagine it to be something like the United States - but done effectively! In order to leave the country, one needs a passport, a document issued by the government and valid only at the whim of the government and its officials. In order to enter the country, one needs a valid visa in either paper or electronic form and one's entry is at the whim of the officials at the border.

The significant difference in this context is that Korea has less of an issue with unwanted migration than the United States.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 22, 2020, 11:52:39 AM
Bear in mind that North Korea's borders are usually closed. Folks don't just wander in and out at whim.
I wonder why that is? Are the citizens in prison? Is the country some sort of Utopia?

One might imagine it to be something like the United States - but done effectively! In order to leave the country, one needs a passport, a document issued by the government and valid only at the whim of the government and its officials. In order to enter the country, one needs a valid visa in either paper or electronic form and one's entry is at the whim of the officials at the border.

The significant difference in this context is that Korea has less of an issue with unwanted migration than the United States.

You mean to say people aren’t trying to break-in to get to a Communist Utopia?  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 22, 2020, 02:12:07 PM
Let's be serious.. if NK's borders came down - S.K WOULD have a serious issue .. despite Manny 'selling' it otherwise
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 22, 2020, 02:14:50 PM
Bear in mind that North Korea's borders are usually closed. Folks don't just wander in and out at whim.

No more closed than any other country with border controls really.

But at the moment no foreigners are allowed in at all and yesterday they announced they were cancelling the Mass Games.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 22, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
Let's be serious.. if NK's borders came down - S.K WOULD have a serious issue .. despite Manny 'selling' it otherwise

Yes, they’d run out of powdered milk overnight.

Go visit then opine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 22, 2020, 05:08:39 PM
Danger Will Rogers, Danger!


“THE IMPLICATIONS:What is the coronavirus-5G connection? Is this bioweapon an excuse for mandatory vaccination, including DNA vaccines, which can be injected using a technique very similar to the EMF pulsed waves of 5G?”


https://sagaciousnewsnetwork.com/the-coronavirus-5g-connection-coverup/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 22, 2020, 06:39:04 PM
Danger Will Rogers, Danger!


“THE IMPLICATIONS:What is the coronavirus-5G connection? Is this bioweapon an excuse for mandatory vaccination, including DNA vaccines, which can be injected using a technique very similar to the EMF pulsed waves of 5G?”


https://sagaciousnewsnetwork.com/the-coronavirus-5g-connection-coverup/


So with the rollout of bio weapon COVID-19, the government of China already announced the rollout of mandatory vaccinations, an NWO agenda in order to achieve depopulation.


“Bill Gates Slips Up: “Vaccines Reduce Population Growth”


https://thefreedomarticles.com/bill-gates-vaccines-reduce-population-growth/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 22, 2020, 11:29:40 PM
Let's be serious.. if NK's borders came down - S.K WOULD have a serious issue .. despite Manny 'selling' it otherwise


Yes, they’d run out of powdered milk overnight.

Go visit then opine.

Once again,

I have no desire to visit NK

How many people defect from S.K to N.K v  the other way around .... ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 23, 2020, 03:26:57 PM
Let's be serious.. if NK's borders came down - S.K WOULD have a serious issue .. despite Manny 'selling' it otherwise


Yes, they’d run out of powdered milk overnight.

Go visit then opine.

Once again,

I have no desire to visit NK

Here’s a suggestion: talk about what you know about. Stop wasting e-ink burbling about nothing and speculating about places you not only haven’t been but don’t want to go to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 23, 2020, 03:27:48 PM
Covid19 Real Beast Causing Dangerous Pandemic – Chris Martenson


Chris Martenson is futurist, economic researcher and holds a PhD in toxicology from Duke University. So, Martenson has a unique perspective about the coronavirus and what its effects will be to the global economy. Don’t believe the mainstream media. Things are not getting better, and Martenson contends, “It’s getting worse. It is a tale of two stories inside China and outside China. Inside China, we have been suspicious of their reporting, and they have been underreporting the cases at least by a factor of 10 and maybe more. This is both for infections and deaths. . . . The Chinese government would not lock down 90% of their economy just to save a couple of lives. They don’t roll that way. So, there is something there that is very worrisome to them. . . . Outside of China, we trust the numbers a lot more. . . . So, when we are looking outside of China, we are seeing the cases of the coronavirus are now increasing exponentially. It’s got a very short doubling time and a very high rate of infectivity. It’s not the flu. It’s not SARS. The mainstream media is trying to tell people there is nothing to worry about, and we don’t take that view at all. . . . Covid19, as they call it now, is a real beast.”

What should you do? Martenson explains, “This is a very dangerous pandemic kind of a virus. We have never seen anything like it before since the Spanish flu. This thing is almost certainly going to romp around the world. . . . For people who are listening, you have to be prepared for the idea . . . if they say we are going into an imposed quarantine in a city. How do I prepare for that? You need to ask yourself what would I need if I was stuck inside my home for 30 or 60 days? That is probably a reasonable amount of time to plan for.”

How bad economically will the Covid19 virus crisis get? Martenson points out, “One in eight companies are so-called zombie companies.” Meaning, they have to keep borrowing cheap money to stay in business. Martenson says governments are hooked on huge deficits and cheap money too, and now the China virus chaos hits an already over-leveraged economy, and more massive money printing is needed to keep debt from defaulting. Martenson says, “This is taking the world’s most important manufacturing center and shutting it down all at once. That’s like throwing a car into reverse at 60 miles per hour on the highway. . . . Supply chain disruptions are going to be legendary. . . . This isn’t like one company having trouble like AIG where Hank Paulson has to ride to the rescue with $700 billion of fresh U.S. taxpayer money. We are talking about a system of tens of thousands of interlocking components that are frozen, and nobody quite knows how to unravel all of that. I think that is well beyond the capability of the Federal Reserve to throw more QE money into the market and goose stocks a little longer. This is the real deal. This isn’t a dress rehearsal. It is happening. People need to be able to make sense of this, and in the absence of being able to make sense of all of this, having some gold makes a lot of sense. I think that’s why we are seeing it pop here.”

Martenson likes physical silver, too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 23, 2020, 03:52:07 PM

Here’s a suggestion: talk about what you know about. Stop wasting e-ink burbling about nothing and speculating about places you not only haven’t been but don’t want to go to.

YOU don't want to go to Muslim' countries yet post like you know..  :coffeeread:

You're just trying to avoid the answer ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 23, 2020, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: Cuffy
“This is taking the world’s most important manufacturing center and shutting it down all at once. That’s like throwing a car into reverse at 60 miles per hour on the highway. . . . Supply chain disruptions are going to be legendary. . . .

This is true and the effects of this have not really been felt yet.

Some of my UK suppliers are running out of things and I already started to bulk buy a few lines that are made in China and will not be replenished at the wholesalers any time soon.

I have prepaid orders at two manufacturers in China that cannot be fulfilled at the moment due to lack of staff. Staff that are sitting at home due to government diktat.

I have two new lines that I want to produce that nobody will accept orders for. Factories that are working with a skeleton staff are fulfilling orders for their biggest customers only.

It is looking like the Canton Fair in Guangzhou will be cancelled in April. This is one of the biggest trade fairs in the world. One I hoped to close a few deals at this spring and it looks like I won’t be going.

I needed to find a company recently to produce some toothed drive belts (like timing belts). I’ve had to pay slightly more and find instead a company in Taiwan.

Looking forward, I’m thinking about Vietnam, India and Cambodia as manufacturing places if China stays on a go slow. These places have been trying to compete with China for some time and this could be their golden ticket.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 23, 2020, 04:01:12 PM

Here’s a suggestion: talk about what you know about. Stop wasting e-ink burbling about nothing and speculating about places you not only haven’t been but don’t want to go to.

YOU don't want to go to Muslim' countries yet post like you know..  :coffeeread:

You're just trying to avoid the answer ...

I was in Tangier, Morocco three days ago. Look on the RUA Twitter feed.

Pwned!  :prophead:

Or as my 11 yr old daughter would say: owned, exposed and roasted. :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 23, 2020, 05:02:38 PM
Covid19 Real Beast Causing Dangerous Pandemic – Chris Martenson



He makes a good point China wouldn't be shutting down 90% of their economy to save a few lives. There is massive under reporting of deaths and those infected which has led people to believe this is no more dangerous than the common flu.

When SARS, Ebola, Chicken and swine flus came out, I wasn't concerned, This new virus is different. Italy and S Korea just had a mini explosive outbreak just like that cruise ship. Italy has cancelled some public festivals.

I have prepaid orders at two manufacturers in China that cannot be fulfilled at the moment due to lack of staff. Staff that are sitting at home due to government diktat.

I have two new lines that I want to produce that nobody will accept orders for. Factories that are working with a skeleton staff are fulfilling orders for their biggest customers only. 


I have made a few small orders of parts off of Ebay. The Chinese sellers have provided me with a tracking number quickly. Although many businesses have a skeleton crew, they also probably have less orders to deal with.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 23, 2020, 05:44:48 PM
Outside of China, we trust the numbers a lot more. . . . So, when we are looking outside of China, we are seeing the cases of the coronavirus are now increasing exponentially. It’s got a very short doubling time and a very high rate of infectivity. It’s not the flu. It’s not SARS. The mainstream media is trying to tell people there is nothing to worry about, and we don’t take that view at all. . . . Covid19, as they call it now, is a real beast.”

 I think we will really see how bad the virus is if it takes hold in a 3rd world country with poor medical facilities. Like somewhere in Africa for example. Then we will see whether or not China is downplaying it. You don't scramble to build new hospitals in record time that hold over a thousand people each for nothing
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 24, 2020, 03:32:58 AM

I was in Tangier, Morocco three days ago. Look on the RUA Twitter feed.

Pwned!  :prophead:

Or as my 11 yr old daughter would say: owned, exposed and roasted. :coffeeread:

1/I am not going to visit your twitter...but thanks for the offer


2/ thank you for proving to us that what you've posted before was bollox
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 24, 2020, 12:18:28 PM
1,000 point plunge! Ouch.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stocks-down-as-coronavirus-spreads-in-europe-and-asia/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 24, 2020, 04:37:21 PM
1,000 point plunge! Ouch.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stocks-down-as-coronavirus-spreads-in-europe-and-asia/

The virus is costing Americans trillions. Although China got hit harder, it might cost them less than it's costing us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 24, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
 South Korea report 833 infection while North Korea reports no infections in their country. Although North Korea has no infections, they have quarantined 380 foreigners for an unknown amount of time and will quarantine new visitors coming into the country for 30 days. Names and nationality of those currently quarantined have not been revealed. On the bright side, those who scheduled a 14 day vacation in North Korea will now get a 30 day virus free vacation with free room and board.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-reportedly-quarantines-380-foreigners-in-bid-to-prevent-coronavirus-outbreak/ar-BB10jFC7?ocid=spartanntp#image=BBZaM5o|3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 24, 2020, 05:42:13 PM
Quote
If the quarantine appears somewhat perplexing, it's because the country has not reported a single case of the novel coronavirus, also known as COVID-19.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-korea-yet-officially-report-155137116.html

That is the perfect way to deal with the virus.  Segregate all foreigners.  They are the only ones who can propagate the bug to others.   (:) :chuckle: :duh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 24, 2020, 07:32:43 PM
The CDC issued a no foreign travel warning unless very necessary to any place. If you leave the USA you may not be able to return if the country you go to has an out break or if the USA closes down the borders. 

News from inside China.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/millions-of-chinese-firms-face-collapse-if-banks-dont-act/ar-BB10hAyF?li=BBnbfcL

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 24, 2020, 09:31:08 PM
First coronavirus vaccine ready for testing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/drugmaker-ships-first-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-for-human-tests/ar-BB10l6xQ
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 24, 2020, 11:22:53 PM
First coronavirus vaccine ready for testing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/drugmaker-ships-first-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-for-human-tests/ar-BB10l6xQ

There's a lot of companies around the world who claimed they are the first to find a potential vaccine. Most of it's fake news but it'll get them name recognition and increase their chances to secure more government funding.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 25, 2020, 06:15:10 AM
It looks as though I might well be close to the mark about the outcome of Covid-19.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

In essence, it is suggested that most of us will end up being infected with the virus. Most of the time, we will not suffer any symptoms at all (be asymptomatic) or suffer a very mild form. That's what happens with influenza viruses. As with the flu, the weak might be sicker and some will die.

As we already know, having an infection and recovering provides immunity to a greater or lesser degree, but reinfection is usually less serious than initial infection due to the creation of antibodies by our immune systems. That's the mechanism by which previous large scale infection events burn themselves out. And yes, just as with those previous events, some people will still end up sick or dead following reinfection. It seems that in the rare cases of reinfection thus far, the people who died were also immunocompromised at the time.

President Trump, commenting in India the other day is probably not far from the mark.

Objectively, it seems to me that having a global 'chickenpox party' for Corvid-19 might be the quickest solution to the current epidemics. Get people ill, create natural immunity and get on with life. Of course, that's not acceptable given the outrage it would cause and the stress on health systems around the world that would result. Slowing down the spread reduces the stress on the medical and ancillary services.

Personally, I am not going to run around like a headless chicken. Being in good health I am not too worried about feeling a little unwell.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 25, 2020, 08:49:39 AM
HARVARD PROFESSOR SAYS 40-70 PER CENT OF PEOPLE WORLDWIDE WILL BE INFECTED WITH CORONAVIRUS

Says asymptomatic nature of virus means it “will ultimately not be containable.”

https://www.infowars.com/harvard-professor-says-40-70-per-cent-of-people-worldwide-will-be-infected-with-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 25, 2020, 09:50:54 AM
Yeah, I linked to a piece about the same thing above yours.

Japan is working from that assumption in their management of Covid-19.
Only people with serious symptoms get hospital care, the rest stay at home. Seems sensible to me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 25, 2020, 10:00:44 AM
Some insiders' information about Wuhan virus 2019 (Hong Kong's convention about this China virus):

Wuhan Concord River North Hospital, another woman medical doctor died of the same virus at the age of 29; 23rd of Feburary at 6:30am


A man's last call to his friend just before he suddenly failed.
The first Wuhan Man called for revolution to overthrow China Commie tyrant.
(with English translation)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 25, 2020, 10:20:23 AM
China Commie style quarantine: Lock victims by welding their doors!
(with English description)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 25, 2020, 10:32:30 AM
Evil Commie's common practice: Hire the same woman to act as a "Nurse" and a "Recovered Patient".

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 25, 2020, 10:37:55 AM
Another brave China citizen calls for revolution to overthrow the Evil China commie tyrant. He is named Zhu ah Bo. Please give your attention to him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on February 25, 2020, 10:41:16 AM
I'm just back from a long weekend in Italy, Bologna and Rome for the rugby. Amazing weather, lovely food, excellent wine and plenty fun.

The Corona thing does seem to be getting ramped up big time though and we were kept waiting in Bologna airport until midnight after security was completely shut down. The day before, a Chinese tourist had arrived via Istanbul and shut the place down again. Patient zero etc. Many had masks on in Italy all weekend and we were expecting a corona airport shut down last night.

It turns out some bell end put a battery in his milkshake and tried to take it through security, kicking off a bomb alert. Some people are absolute morons.

 :'(

This morning I've read the Italian Corona reports on the Brussels Broadcasting Corp website and it reeks of hysteria. We got chatting with a doctor whilst in the airport last night and he said it would be best for us to catch it now so we get it over and done with. He reckoned it was just another flu strain knocking off the old and the weak who are one step away from many things seeing them off.

Still - I'd rather not!  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 25, 2020, 11:08:04 AM
Rosco,
If this virus begins to attack your lung and you are unable to receive intense care, you will be gone in a few days no matter how strong you are.

In January, an English tourist (aged about 40) in Thailand was transported to hospital by ship. He doctor said his lung could have burst if he had been transported by aeroplane.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 25, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
First coronavirus vaccine ready for testing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/drugmaker-ships-first-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-for-human-tests/ar-BB10l6xQ

There's a lot of companies around the world who claimed they are the first to find a potential vaccine. Most of it's fake news but it'll get them name recognition and increase their chances to secure more government funding.

Billy you should read the article and others to learn something about it before you make such comments. Understand how the vaccine is being made and why there is hope it will work. The SARS virus was a coronavirus also that a vaccine was made after it was already stopped. It was found new virus to be close to this SARS virus. They discovered that a part of the SARS virus could be use to create a immune that would keep the person form getting the disease. They are taking the same part of part of the Coronavirus that worked with the SARS  and trying it as a testing it as a vaccine. Since it worked with SARS there is a good chance it will work with the coronavirus. It is possible it will not work but it is not fake.

Ever year we create a new vaccine for flu virus in a very short time. With testing we will learn to do the same with coronaviruses also. it took 20 months in 2003 to come up with a vaccine but in the process we learned a lot of what did not work. So an effective vaccine will likely take much less time than last time.

Do not be complacent about getting the virus. 83 per cent of the people who get it can go home and get over it on their own. The other 17 per cent need to be in a hospital of which 5 per cent need to be in intensive care. Half of those that get into intensive care die. No country in the world has enough hospital beds or intensive care room to handle the case load. If 2.3 per cent of the worlds population dies it will be a very lot of people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 25, 2020, 12:06:07 PM
I'm just back from a long weekend in Italy, Bologna and Rome for the rugby. Amazing weather, lovely food, excellent wine and plenty fun.

The Corona thing does seem to be getting ramped up big time though and we were kept waiting in Bologna airport until midnight after security was completely shut down. The day before, a Chinese tourist had arrived via Istanbul and shut the place down again. Patient zero etc. Many had masks on in Italy all weekend and we were expecting a corona airport shut down last night.

It turns out some bell end put a battery in his milkshake and tried to take it through security, kicking off a bomb alert. Some people are absolute morons.

 :'(

This morning I've read the Italian Corona reports on the Brussels Broadcasting Corp website and it reeks of hysteria. We got chatting with a doctor whilst in the airport last night and he said it would be best for us to catch it now so we get it over and done with. He reckoned it was just another flu strain knocking off the old and the weak who are one step away from many things seeing them off.

Still - I'd rather not!  ;D

Was his name Moby?  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on February 25, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
LoyalMan, don't post Chinese videos where no one can understand what people are saying...interesting stuff but they need subtitles.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 25, 2020, 03:14:03 PM
LoyalMan, don't post Chinese videos where no one can understand what people are saying...interesting stuff but they need subtitles.

Maybe you will give us the gist?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on February 25, 2020, 03:25:22 PM
In my little corner of the world, we're likely quite safe.
But, in less than a month I go on my first cruise.
Now it's a Caribbean cruise so odds are still low.
But putting 6000 people in a small area does not seem like the greatest of ideas
when this thing is spreading like wild fire.

I am not  worried about catching it, as has been said large portion go on with life.
I am worried about being shoved in quarantine for who knows how long.
Taking a week away no problem, sitting in a hole for weeks does not seem appealing.

they have already informed us, a screening shall take place during boarding.
not sure if that should be reassuring or alarming  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 25, 2020, 04:27:44 PM
Quote
Limbaugh insisted that the disease is being “weaponized by virtue of the media” in an “effort to bring down Trump,” doing so by scaring investors into cashing out of the stock market.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/rush-limbaugh-coronavirus-trump-023911730.html

So the virus is an attempt to take down the US President?   :chuckle: (:)

Quote
"For schools, options include dividing students into smaller groups, or in a severe pandemic closing schools and using internet-based teleschooling.

"For adults, businesses can replace in-person meetings with video and telephone conferences and increase teleworking options," she continued, adding that on a larger scale, cities may need to cancel mass gatherings.

In the case of hospitals, it may mean delaying elective procedures and increasing telephone consultations.

"You should ask your children's school about their plans for school dismissal or school closures. Ask about teleschooling. I contacted my local school superintendent this morning with exactly those questions."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/health-authorities-expect-coronavirus-spread-us-soil-183113437.html

Shut it ALL down.    The "roaring 20s" certainly ended pretty quickly.   :chuckle: :) :-X (:) :-\ :evilgrin0002: :dh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 25, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
Sometimes it is like no body is really reading the mainstream news but complaining about what it is doing or not saying. The Wall street journal had three of it reporters kicked out of China for reporting on the possible financial impact of the coronavirus on the country. Today's article shows it is anything but safe.   

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-warns-it-expects-coronavirus-to-spread-in-us/ar-BB10nFeQ
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 25, 2020, 06:06:10 PM
Just arrived in Tbilisi from Turkey .. The flight was a code share with Alitalia and there were folks from the Venice Carnival on board.( tell tale masks )

Was on the flight with an imaginary friend who is a retired surgeon and was constantly saying "Why the 'beep' are these imbeciles wearing masks on a 'beeping' plane with recycled air ..

On the plane from Manchester to Turkey the day before - very few wore masks ,,, Passport control at Georgia wore masks, but the girl who stamped us in pulled it down when we told her it was a waste of time and gave us TWO bottles of wine each .. I love Georgia ;)


They took a Korean girl away for tests..

We reckon they should have been more worried about the tourists from Italy
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 25, 2020, 09:06:31 PM
It looks as though I might well be close to the mark about the outcome of Covid-19.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

In essence, it is suggested that most of us will end up being infected with the virus.


Nostrodamus, last month you said this....


Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work.


Now you're telling us this thing is going worldwide. Lol

First coronavirus vaccine ready for testing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/drugmaker-ships-first-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-for-human-tests/ar-BB10l6xQ

There's a lot of companies around the world who claimed they are the first to find a potential vaccine. Most of it's fake news but it'll get them name recognition and increase their chances to secure more government funding.

Billy you should read the article and others to learn something about it before you make such comments.


There's a lot of articles like yours. You may never hear about the possible vaccine in your article again but if you do find it's the winner out of thousands of possible vaccines being invented now, please come back and let me know.

Rosco,
If this virus begins to attack your lung and you are unable to receive intense care, you will be gone in a few days no matter how strong you are.


Italy reports they have 322 people infected. They report 11 people finished their battle with the virus. 1 person fully recovered. The other 10 died.

The cruise ship reports they currently have 691 people infected and 3 people finished their battle with the virus and all 3 died.

Iran reports they currently have 95 people infected and 16 people finished their battle with the virus and all 16 died.

South Korea reports they have 1146 people infected and 32 finished their battle with the virus. 22 made a full recovery and 10 died.

I don't trust Chinese reporting. Their numbers imply there are 10 recoveries for every one death. 1 out of 10 people die from this virus. In comparison 1 out of 1000 people die from the flu.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 26, 2020, 11:12:05 AM
Chinese medical staff request international medical assistance in fighting against COVID-19
Yingchun Zeng, Yan Zhen

Published: February 24, 2020
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/S2214-109X(20)30065-6
Copyright © 2020 The Author(s). Published by Elsevier Ltd.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 26, 2020, 11:22:44 AM
Is it all a farce with crisis actors? I don’t think so, but this article is entertaining.  :nod:

https://www.realhistorychannel.org/corona-virus-conspiracy
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on February 26, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
LoyalMan, don't post Chinese videos where no one can understand what people are saying...interesting stuff but they need subtitles.

Maybe you will give us the gist?

Just that normal Chinese citizens are angry about the government, what they are doing and how they are trying to hide things.  I watched the one with the angry guy talking.
And then the one where they barricaded the doors...this is old communist thinking. if there's a fire in the building those people can't escpae.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 26, 2020, 03:15:41 PM
Chinese medical staff request international medical assistance in fighting against COVID-19
Yingchun Zeng, Yan Zhen

Published: February 24, 2020
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/S2214-109X(20)30065-6
Copyright © 2020 The Author(s). Published by Elsevier Ltd.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext)

For a long time China denied international medical professionals from helping. Recently they reversed their stance and are allowing international medical professionals but they are currently delayed and they will not be able to go to Wuhan where they are needed most. Why refuse help for the citizens of Wuhan?. I guess they don’t want somebody outside of China seeing and reporting the truth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 26, 2020, 03:53:28 PM
I guess they don’t want somebody outside of China seeing and reporting the truth.

What truth do you imagine is hidden in Wuhan?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 26, 2020, 04:12:32 PM
I guess they don’t want somebody outside of China seeing and reporting the truth.

What truth do you imagine is hidden in Wuhan?

10X the deaths!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 26, 2020, 04:19:32 PM
Chinese medical staff request international medical assistance in fighting against COVID-19
Yingchun Zeng, Yan Zhen

Published: February 24, 2020
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/S2214-109X(20)30065-6
Copyright © 2020 The Author(s). Published by Elsevier Ltd.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext)

For a long time China denied international medical professionals from helping. Recently they reversed their stance and are allowing international medical professionals but they are currently delayed and they will not be able to go to Wuhan where they are needed most. Why refuse help for the citizens of Wuhan?. I guess they don’t want somebody outside of China seeing and reporting the truth.

Coronavirus Is Coming—And Trump Isn’t Ready

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/now-trump-needs-deep-state-fight-coronavirus/605752/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 26, 2020, 04:59:00 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-four-maps-charts-depict-163128391.html

According to the world map, Central and South America and most of Africa has no cases.  Note that Ukraine does not have any cases.  Likely due to no Asians going there in large numbers.  And in Africa, you have a competitor there with Ebola.  Maybe this will create a reverse tide out of North America towards the South?  :chuckle: (:)

Oops. spoke too soon.   :laugh:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brazil-confirms-latin-americas-first-coronavirus-case-171028296.html

Quote
“If the disease is able to spread to another host before the first host dies, then it is not too lethal to exist. Evolution cannot make it less lethal so long as it can still spread,” he added. “If a hypothetical disease eradicates its only host, both will indeed go extinct.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-fatality-rates-vary-wildly-depending-on-age-gender-and-medical-history-some-patients-fare-much-worse-than-others-2020-02-26

Please insert T-W-A-T in the link above.   :laugh: :evilgrin0002:    :GRAVE:

Quote
Allan Lichtman, a professor at American University, said that the 2020 election is so-far too close to call, but that a damaged economy from concerns around a potential pandemic could add the final ingredient to flatten Mr Trump’s re-election prospects

https://www.yahoo.com/news/professor-predicted-last-9-elections-200651874.html

So it is an attempt to take down the US President.   :-\ (:) :chuckle: :bow: :biggrin:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 26, 2020, 05:52:59 PM
I guess they don’t want somebody outside of China seeing and reporting the truth.

What truth do you imagine is hidden in Wuhan?

A lot more deaths and grim situation which would signal how dangerous the virus is and get people to question why China waited so long to take action on it in January when it was discovered by their doctors last year. If would be bad for China's image if we know the truth. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how bad it is in China. Look at how China's neighbors have behaving with them by closing borders. They are treating China differently compared to the other outbreaks in the past. It's a lot worse this time and they know it.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 26, 2020, 06:10:45 PM
Chinese medical staff request international medical assistance in fighting against COVID-19
Yingchun Zeng, Yan Zhen

Published: February 24, 2020
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/S2214-109X(20)30065-6
Copyright © 2020 The Author(s). Published by Elsevier Ltd.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30065-6/fulltext)

For a long time China denied international medical professionals from helping. Recently they reversed their stance and are allowing international medical professionals but they are currently delayed and they will not be able to go to Wuhan where they are needed most. Why refuse help for the citizens of Wuhan?. I guess they don’t want somebody outside of China seeing and reporting the truth.

Coronavirus Is Coming—And Trump Isn’t Ready

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/now-trump-needs-deep-state-fight-coronavirus/605752/

Atlantic is a liberal rag. Trying to hurt his reelection
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 27, 2020, 12:57:26 AM
Ukraine.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/hysteria-coronavirus-sparks-violent-protests-ukraine/story?id=69124337

Making money this week; short in market and bought MRNA Monday. The company making a vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 27, 2020, 01:00:48 AM
Translation: A community district in Wuhan under quarantine. People there were going insane, collective roaring!

My own comment: the most realistic "Sound of Hell" I have ever heard!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on February 27, 2020, 01:15:51 AM
crazy...did you guys see the one where the guy is talking on the phone and then just collapses and dies?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 27, 2020, 01:33:23 AM
This is just for those religious readers.

CoronaVirus Prophesized in Book of Ezekiel, Mystic Rabbi Shows:
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/145262/coronavirus-prophesized-in-book-of-ezekiel-mystic-rabbi-shows/ (https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/145262/coronavirus-prophesized-in-book-of-ezekiel-mystic-rabbi-shows/)


He predicted:
"China is on the verge of total collapse.
There is no more China as we know it.
And there will be even more plagues, more epidemics.
China will be entirely quarantined."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 27, 2020, 09:57:42 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-four-maps-charts-depict-163128391.html

I have a serious issue withe these maps since Chinese men by the millions are crawling all over Africa and South America exploiting the full scope of natural resources and agribiz opps everywhere as China needs new lands for it's booming population and breeding females for their men due to the one child policy revised to a maybe 2 child policy.  40,000 red army "technicians" were imported to Panama to build the third super canal and havee remained as a protective army and many others fanned out to new projects all over Latin America.... Yet literally no Covid-19 infections in Africa or Latam countries?   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 27, 2020, 10:27:32 AM
crazy...did you guys see the one where the guy is talking on the phone and then just collapses and dies?

That is one of the very few insider's video with English translation.  I do not do translation by myself to avoid being questioned or suspected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 27, 2020, 10:38:30 AM
Crazy Pence patient zero video... Gallows humor!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1233077802553028609
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 27, 2020, 10:40:11 AM
China Commie is saying the deadly coronavirus outbreak from Wuhan is getting better
But they *themselves* have just cancelled their hugely important "Two Sessions" meeting
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 27, 2020, 11:16:29 AM
First case was reported in GE, yesterday

We are clearly not locals and I met a guy I know in the car trade, here,  who was reluctant to shake my hand  after I informed me I arrived by a Italian flight  ... :chuckle:

I told him we could talk outside and as he puffed on his cigarette educated him as to who / want was more likely to kill him




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 27, 2020, 11:34:16 AM
This video is not about Wuhan virus 2019. This is a video about Ebola virus. This is simply for comparison with the present situation in ChiNazi.

Ebola patient escapes quarantine, spreads panic in Monrovia (Liberia)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 27, 2020, 12:39:05 PM
Nature Medicine
Published: 09 November 2015

One of the author is Zhengli-Li Shi from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows "potential for human emergence"
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 (https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985)



In 18th September 2019, there was a Wuhan Customs/Military emergency exercise.  The name "new type of coronavirus" had already been mentioned!!!

"This exercise simulates the entire process of handling a case of a new type of coronavirus infection."

English translation page link:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctdsb.net%2Fhtml%2F2019%2F0918%2FsportsMeet260345.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctdsb.net%2Fhtml%2F2019%2F0918%2FsportsMeet260345.html)

Original Hubei Province Chinese page link:
http://www.ctdsb.net/html/2019/0918/sportsMeet260345.html (http://www.ctdsb.net/html/2019/0918/sportsMeet260345.html)




One month later in October, The 2019 Military World Games was held in Wuhan as well!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games)


It is widely suspected that this was a biological weapon attack on USA troops!  BUT failed and hurt ChiNazi themselves!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 27, 2020, 12:41:19 PM
Simple Q ..

Given there is no vaccine and  the virus isn't fussy about who it infects - WHY do people post such unthinking  bollox ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 27, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
Translation: A community district in Wuhan under quarantine. People there were going insane, collective roaring!

My own comment: the most realistic "Sound of Hell" I have ever heard!

Fake news. This was a tribute to the doctor who first alerted the world to the new virus and ended up dying from it. People went to the windows screaming his name as part of a planned tribute.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 27, 2020, 03:58:33 PM

As I type this John Hopkins reports 36,063 people in the world finished a battle with the virus. 33,253 made a full recovery. 2810 died. I suspect a lot more dead since China underreports and some countries like N Korea isn't reporting at all but for arguments sake, lets say the numbers are true. That means 7.8 % of the people are dying from this virus. Mortality rate is extremely high. If everybody in this world got this virus once, 600 million people will die. But that is not the scary thing we need to worry about.....

Our bodies already experiences coronaviruses that cause the common cold. There is no cure/vaccine for the common cold viruses. There probably won't be a cure/vaccine ever discovered for 2019 - nCoV. We may have to live with this virus forever and if it maintains a 7.8% rate of death for those infected and we catch this virus ten times in our lives, there's a good chance most of us will die from it eventually. This virus must be eradicated from the human body and if it did come from an animal, those animals must be liquidated. If humanity fails to control this virus and we have to live with it everyday like we do the common cold viruses, our life expectancy will be significantly reduced. this deadly virus will also modify our behavior on many levels.

Governments don't want to send the public into a panic but billions are being designated to find a cure. Every lab capable of inventing a cure is at work. If any nation fails to control the virus, they will spend even more quarantining people, closing schools, other places of public gatherings, and closing even their economy in an effort to beat the virus just as China is doing now.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/256521#definition
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 27, 2020, 05:37:52 PM
Quote
“Given the high volume of travel between San Francisco and mainland China, there is a growing likelihood that we will see cases of COVID-19 eventually,”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/02/26/coronavirus-san-francisco-emergency-face-masks-brazil-south-korea/4878620002/

San Francisco now under a state of emergency.  Maybe it might play out like the Y2K scare?   :-\

Quote
"Past hajj calamities suggest the kingdom does not have the capacity to deal with a mass outbreak during the pilgrimage."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/saudi-arabia-suspends-entry-pilgrims-over-coronavirus-062500005.html

No pilgrimage?  That could result in a "jihad".   (:) :fighting0025: >:(

Quote
“No one really seems to be an expert on the coronavirus. We haven’t seen anything like this really in our investing lifetimes.”
“This is a big deal. … If this flows into the U.S., we could be in trouble because, let’s face it, the U.S. consumer is what’s holding this thing together.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/stocks/ar-BB10rty7

Are you expecting investors to have studied Microbiology?   (:) :chuckle:

Quote
Coronavirus Will Flatline the U.S. Economy in 2020

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/coronavirus-will-flatline-the-u.s.-economy-in-2020-warns-goldman-sachs-2020-02-27

Quote
Globally, the share price declines of the last six days have wiped out more than $3.6tn (£2.8tn) in value.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51664652

Several trillion went up in smoke.   :o :king: :hidechair: :snivel:  :whist11:  :money: :rouble-smile:

Quick, someone get a resuscitator    :laugh:

Quote
“When it is silent and integrated into the host cell genome, it is not visible to the immune system, and so the immune system basically doesn’t have a way to attack it when it’s in this latent form,”


https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2020/01/hiv-researchers-0128

The epidemic from the 1980s still persists.    :Zzzzsleep: :scared0005: :-X
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 27, 2020, 07:30:24 PM
Trump is probably going to force private companies that manufacture masks to focus on manufacturing 300 million masks to combat the virus. Goal is to get a mask for every American and change slogan for 2020 election campaign to Make America Virus Free Again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclusive-us-mulls-using-sweeping-powers-to-ramp-up-production-of-coronavirus-protective-gear/ar-BB10u5ge?ocid=spartanntp

I like the mask below. $9 and it fits snuggly over the face. I see a lot of Chinese not wearing their fabric masks properly. That aluminum strip needs to be form fitted over the nose otherwise air can get around the mask. Also needed is eye protection since the virus can get in the eyes and infect.

https://fadtype.com/DANIU-6200-N95-Double-Gas-Mask-Protection-Filter-Chemical-Half-Face-Respirator-Mask-1175732

In my local news a school staffer takes an international vacation and one of the family members is getting tested for the virus and the high school the staffer works in is shut down so the entire campus can get disinfected. Taxpayers to staffer "We hope you enjoyed your f'ing vacation"

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/bothell-high-school-closed-thursday-in-an-abundance-of-caution-over-coronavirus-fears-after-staffer-traveled-internationally/

South Korea is currently experiencing a virus explosion with over 2000 infected now but Canadian researchers estimate Iran has over 18,000 infected and are underreporting since they claim only 245 of their citizens are infected. Iran's deputy Health Minister said quarantines were a “Stone Age” way to address the problem, and Iran doesn’t need them. Later that evening he tested positive for the virus and then used a Stone Age solution quarantining himself for a modern day problem.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iran-t-hide-coronavirus-explosion-102629171.html

Iran's Vice President has tested positive for the virus. Like China, Iran is probably underreporting and nations neighboring Iran are shutting down borders. Russia is restricting all flights from Iran. There is good news coming out of Iran since there's less commercial planes available for them to shoot down. Tourism to Iran is going to take a dive and the economy will take a hit. North Korea better keep quiet about it's virus problems otherwise they will lose tourists too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/irans-vice-president-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB10u33i?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 28, 2020, 12:10:02 AM
Simple Q ..

Given there is no vaccine and  the virus isn't fussy about who it infects - WHY do people post such unthinking  bollox ?
There isn't a vaccine, but there is a cure already.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 28, 2020, 02:55:38 AM
What I find really funny is the news is full of stories about big companies shares going down, Easy jet are loosing money, BA are getting ready for a loss and so on and so on..

****** Who really gives a shit? I don't do you? I don't care who's shares have gone down who is having to close down who may go bust, who will loose this and who will loose that..

So What!

As long as I am ok do you thing I have any interest in what stocks and share are going down.. for all I care they can all go bust over night.. it's life..

If I do happen to catch the virus I certainly will not be making headline news about not being able to work, sales going down and having to change the Sunday dinner from roast Venison to a bowl of potato soup..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 28, 2020, 08:55:51 AM
Coronavirus: Mongolian President in quarantine after a one-day visit to China

https://citizentv.co.ke/news/coronavirus-mongolian-president-in-quarantine-after-a-one-day-visit-to-china-324605/ (https://citizentv.co.ke/news/coronavirus-mongolian-president-in-quarantine-after-a-one-day-visit-to-china-324605/)

(http://img2.chinadaily.com.cn/images/202002/27/5e57cbc7a31012820656705c.jpeg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 28, 2020, 11:14:58 AM
Interesting to see Ukraine prepare for Coronavirus. The link in English is below. Calm and rather stoic which beats some of the almost absurd actions elsewhere. On reflection, the comments from Cuffy regarding the lack of cases in Afrika seems almost prophetic and yet scarry.

Politicians will remain just that only slightly more intelligent on average than say ms. If one reads the latest screed from AOC you can wonder has common sense departed the human population.


https://www.Kievpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-prepares-for-outbreak-as-coronavirus-reaches-its-neighbors.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 28, 2020, 04:53:29 PM
Quote
“Coronaviruses occur in virtually every species of animal, including humans, and are commonly associated with unapparent or transient intestinal and respiratory infections. They tend to be very species specific and cross-species transmission is uncommon.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pet-dog-coronavirus-victim-tests-095954274.html

If this is true, then what is all this about the virus being transferred to humans from another animal?   ??? :duh: (:)

Then I presume that AIDS and the Coronavirus were spontaneously generated inside a human?   :chuckle:

Quote
"After all, what brand wants to be linked to a virus which is killing people worldwide?"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bad-ales-us-drinkers-snub-corona-beer-over-200024163.html

People tend to link names with anything else that comes close to it.   :laugh: :duh:

Quote
Second positive tests have been reported in China, where the disease originated late last year, but this is thought to be the first example outside of the country.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-woman-tests-positive-twice-osaka-olympics-china-a9362421.html

If at first, you don't succeed, try, try again.   :chuckle: (:)

Quote
But the implications of data anywhere near this bad is: China is an important cog in the supply and demand chains of the world. Globalization runs through China. Car factories around the world can’t build their cars because they can’t get their inputs from China. China buys a lot of commodities — oil and so on. Even if the outbreak can be contained, which doesn’t look like it, the economic impact can’t be.

https://www.marke*snip*ch.com/story/the-situation-in-china-is-even-worse-than-you-think-says-this-analyst-with-a-history-of-accurate-calls-2020-02-28

Insert T-W-A-T in the link above.   :chuckle: :evilgrin0002:

What has to occur is a total reset back to how it was prior to the Nixon visit to Red China.  Back to 12 cent comic books, 25 cent loaf of bread and cupcakes, 1 cent bubble gum.  Get rid of all post-internet junk.   :ROFL: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on February 28, 2020, 05:08:55 PM
Interesting to see Ukraine prepare for Coronavirus. The link in English is below. Calm and rather stoic which beats some of the almost absurd actions elsewhere. On reflection, the comments from Cuffy regarding the lack of cases in Afrika seems almost prophetic and yet scarry.

Politicians will remain just that only slightly more intelligent on average than say ms. If one reads the latest screed from AOC you can wonder has common sense departed the human population.


https://www.Kievpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-prepares-for-outbreak-as-coronavirus-reaches-its-neighbors.html

Africa has already the Ebola virus to contend with.  Viruses cannot infect a host at the same time.  One has to dominant over the other for targets.  As for prophetic, an actual "plague of locusts" of Biblical proportion is flooding over Africa now. 

Quote
‘Like an Umbrella Had Covered the Sky’

 :scared0005: :o :bow: :evilgrin0002:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/world/africa/locusts-kenya-east-africa.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 28, 2020, 10:44:45 PM

"Maximum discipline", "Absolute Obedience" and loud speakers are being used to keep the virus from crossing the North Korean border. The whole country is under quarantine. Nobody in, nobody out. The people know the drill. They are no strangers to being locked down. In the photo everybody wears a mask except fearless Kim Jong Un who radiates strength and invincibility to his people. South Korea with over 2000 infected should use some of North Korea's methods of prevention.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-warns-serious-consequences-virus-reaches-north-korea-005947594.html

Less than an hour from where I live, two more cases of infections showed up. One is a lady who just came back from South Korea and the other is a teen who did not travel. Who did he catch it from? Those two people live in different counties and if they didn't interact with each other, the teen probably acquired it from another infected person roaming the streets freely undetected. If this thing explodes in my area, I'll have to try maximum discipline and absolute obedience to see if it works.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/2-new-coronavirus-cases-emerge-in-washington-in-king-county-and-snohomish-county/?utm_source=marketingcloud&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BNA_022920044440+BREAKING%3a+Two+new+coronavirus+cases+in+King+and+Snohomish+counties_2_28_2020&utm_term=Active%20subscriber
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 29, 2020, 03:43:33 AM
If you were serious about avoiding getting infected....you and any family members would already have been staying at home...

For all we know...it is too late..






Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 29, 2020, 04:37:21 AM
Africa has already the Ebola virus to contend with.  Viruses cannot infect a host at the same time.  One has to dominant over the other for targets.  As for prophetic, an actual "plague of locusts" of Biblical proportion is flooding over Africa now. 

Quote
‘Like an Umbrella Had Covered the Sky’

 :scared0005: :o :bow: :evilgrin0002:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/world/africa/locusts-kenya-east-africa.html



Is Jesus coming back soon?!?  Are Egypt's 10 Disasters becoming ChiNazi's?!?  For the past year, I can name a few:
African Pig Plague;
Bird Flu;
Wuhan Virus 2019;
Locust Flood;



CoronaVirus Prophesized in Book of Ezekiel, Mystic Rabbi Shows:
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/145262/coronavirus-prophesized-in-book-of-ezekiel-mystic-rabbi-shows/


He predicted:
"China is on the verge of total collapse.
There is no more China as we know it.
And there will be even more plagues, more epidemics.
China will be entirely quarantined."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 29, 2020, 04:43:54 AM
Armageddon is on the way!! Bring it on..

Lest have a fresh start ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 29, 2020, 05:44:08 AM
No Weapon Left Behind
The American Hybrid War on China

The New Silk Roads – or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) – were launched by President Xi Jinping in 2013, first in Central Asia (Nur-Sultan) and then Southeast Asia (Jakarta).

One year later, the Chinese economy overtook the U.S. on a PPP basis. Inexorably, year after year since the start of the millennium, the U.S. share of the global economy shrinks while China’s increases.

China is already the key hub of the global economy and the leading trade partner of nearly 130 nations. (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-u-s-worlds-trading-partner)

While the U.S. economy is hollowed out, and the casino financing of the U.S. government – repo markets and all – reads as a dystopian nightmare, the civilization-state steps ahead in myriad areas of technological research, not least because of Made in China 2025. (https://www.scmp.com/topics/made-china-2025-infographics)

China largely beats the U.S. on patent filings and produces at least 8 times as many STEM graduates a year than the U.S., earning the status of top contributor to global science.

A vast array of nations across the Global South signed on to be part of BRI, which is planned for completion in 2049. Last year alone, Chinese companies signed contracts worth up to $128 billion in large-scale infrastructure projects in dozen of nations.

The only economic competitor to the U.S. is busy reconnecting most of the world to a 21st century, fully networked version of a trade system that was at its peak for over a millennia: the Eurasian Silk Roads.

Inevitably this state of things is something interlocking sectors of the U.S. ruling class simply would not accept.

 Read the original posting here (https://www.globalresearch.ca/no-weapon-left-behind-american-hybrid-war-china/5704403)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 29, 2020, 08:36:51 AM

"Maximum discipline", "Absolute Obedience" and loud speakers are being used to keep the virus from crossing the North Korean border. The whole country is under quarantine. Nobody in, nobody out. The people know the drill. They are no strangers to being locked down. In the photo everybody wears a mask except fearless Kim Jong Un who radiates strength and invincibility to his people. South Korea with over 2000 infected should use some of North Korea's methods of prevention.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-warns-serious-consequences-virus-reaches-north-korea-005947594.html

That's the right way for North Korea to do it. Hopefully it will pass them by that way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 29, 2020, 09:58:06 AM
Netherlands now has 4 corona infections. nobody died yet and the first victim recovered and will soon be un-quarantained.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 29, 2020, 10:28:46 AM

Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on February 29, 2020, 11:26:04 AM

Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.


Billy,
Many people imagines that a New World Order dominated by ChiNazi would be better than our present world dominated by USA.

The last comparison was between USSR and USA.  Luckily, we had chosen the correct one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 29, 2020, 02:39:07 PM

Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.

BillyB

Unfortunately you are so much brainwashed with your daily propaganda you are watching, that you do not have the ability, anymore, to read an article with a very different point of you and use your judgement to make your own opinion.

I will not bother making anymore comments to a brainwashed person , like you, who does not understand what he is reading...... and then comes out with the same crap propaganda as the mainstream Media of his country... The USA!

Sorry Billy here in Europe we live in a different planet from you!

Have a Nice Day!


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 29, 2020, 05:03:54 PM

Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.


Billy,
Many people imagines that a New World Order dominated by ChiNazi would be better than our present world dominated by USA.

The last comparison was between USSR and USA.  Luckily, we had chosen the correct one.

With this virus going around and if it's here to stay, it will bring the most prosperous nations down to earth. Nations will become more equally poor and miserable. Some see it as a good thing.



Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.

BillyB

Unfortunately you are so much brainwashed with your daily propaganda you are watching, that you do not have the ability, anymore, to read an article with a very different point of you and use your judgement to make your own opinion.

I will not bother making anymore comments to a brainwashed person , like you, who does not understand what he is reading...... and then comes out with the same crap propaganda as the mainstream Media of his country... The USA!

Sorry Billy here in Europe we live in a different planet from you!

Have a Nice Day!


I can read and choose what to believe. Do not be mad if I don't come to the same conclusion as you. Journalists are beneath me so I'm not going to automatically believe everything they write.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on February 29, 2020, 06:24:05 PM
BillyB thinks WHO, the NHS, CDC et all are in some giant conspiracy to stop us panicking...

He won't tell us if he is self isolating..

BillyB is probably wearing a surgical mask ))
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 01, 2020, 07:48:10 AM
As if Londinium was not a globalist fuster-cluck enough already...
 
 https://www.infowars.com/this-is-a-nightmare-londons-worst-case-plan-for-coronavirus-includes-giant-morgue-in-hyde-park/

“THIS IS A NIGHTMARE”: LONDON’S WORST-CASE PLAN FOR CORONAVIRUS INCLUDES GIANT MORGUE IN HYDE PARK

Zero Hedge - February 29, 2020 -
19 cases of COVID-19 have been confirmed in UK since it began spreading from China last month.

If it does turn into a pandemic, the U.K. is the best country to be in, because “we are so on it for contingency planning,” Aiken, an MP for Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Conservative Party, said in an interview on Friday. But Aiken, who is also a councilor for the Westminster area which includes the park, said she’s alert to the risk of contagion in the U.K. capital. –Bloomberg

“I was on the Tube yesterday going to the City, and I was thinking this is a nightmare,” said Aiken. “In the worst-case scenario, it’s going to be horrendous.”

“We have contingency plans to open up a morgue in Hyde Park, in tents,” said MP Nickie Aiken, whose district includes the 350-acre open space which was used as a refuge from the plague in the 17th century. “We would run the morgue for most of central London.”




###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 01, 2020, 09:51:28 AM

Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.

BillyB

Unfortunately you are so much brainwashed with your daily propaganda you are watching, that you do not have the ability, anymore, to read an article with a very different point of you and use your judgement to make your own opinion.

I will not bother making anymore comments to a brainwashed person , like you, who does not understand what he is reading...... and then comes out with the same crap propaganda as the mainstream Media of his country... The USA!

Sorry Billy here in Europe we live in a different planet from you!

Have a Nice Day!

With all due respect to the Wilding Hogwartsian Wacko Wizzbanging Oracle of Britzania... I actually live just north of the Peoples Republic of Masswilltaxitoyou, with the Bern-commie People's Republic of Vermont to the West, the Downeast Maineiac People's Republic to the east and worst of all the Clown PM Trudeau's People's Sanctuary Republic of Quebec Canadia to the North with their Commie Cranial Craziness bleeding across our borders like coronavirus on steroids.

Trump has been forced to focus on the existential threats to our nation's continued existence... 1. The radical islamists invasion and takeover of the formerly judeo christian west. 2. The Sino funded Narco Terrorists Cartels of Mexico and Latin America who now dominate all deadly drugs distribution in 40 Nation's including Canada and the USA resulting in 70,000 opioid deaths per year in the USA, the Mad Mercantilist Marauders of Communist Red China with their Belt an Road and 5G China 2025 initiatives to dominate the world's technology industries through extremely aggressive predatory capitalism including Bioweapons development- OOOPPS  ... And finally the Pro CCP one party rule new world order (((((Globalists))))) who want China to absorb the Americas over the next 50 years while they incinerate our constitution and laud over us like a bunch of Mini Mike Bloomberg technocrat tyrants.

Faced with this no wonder Trump teamed with the DoD and fighting Israelites to save the USA from these serious attacks. Trump is a Patriot and not your fairy god mother granting all of our childhood dreams and wishes.

Time to man up, nut up, ammo up and get ready to fight along side your fellow fighting patriots whether or not they make you feel good while slaying mutual enemies.

Bloody ale wat am aye thinking you lot are the land of Tommy Robinson and Julian Assange torturers... You have been so feminized and de-nutted and disarmed like the ginger formerly known as Prince Harry... Damn you are all so completely fooked with Duke Wizzoff as his standin.


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 01, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
People in the UK are panic buying antibacterial hand gel. Most shops are empty already.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 01, 2020, 10:15:17 AM
Can't find a bottle of Purell or generics in any of the stores here but can find anti bacterial soap ironically just as good as alcohol based sanitizers for washing off viruses.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 01, 2020, 10:18:38 AM
People in the UK are panic buying antibacterial hand gel. Most shops are empty already.

Better and more useful than surgical masks.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 01, 2020, 10:28:03 AM
BillyB thinks WHO, the NHS, CDC et all are in some giant conspiracy to stop us panicking...


When people panic, they will kill each other over the last food and masks on a shelf. Panic can kill more than the virus. There is a chance you may someday live like the people of Wuhan. It's why people are preparing regardless of what government agencies tell us. Everything was fine in S Korea, Iran, and Italy until it wasn't.

He won't tell us if he is self isolating..


I'm not self isolating.

BillyB is probably wearing a surgical mask ))


I'm not wearing a mask and haven't worn a mask in years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 01, 2020, 12:08:52 PM
People in the UK are panic buying antibacterial hand gel. Most shops are empty already.

Better and more useful than surgical masks.

Ineffective if less than 60% alcohol and still not as good as proper handwashing.

But that said, every little helps. Masks included.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 01, 2020, 12:49:52 PM
https://scontent.fyaw1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89024200_10216470237856428_8906165565056352256_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQmzgXIoWibt3QAuPgkP8W7t8M8r5OBun0guKvRIeY5Pwmk7o2OLIDHe2qZnxKscI9M&_nc_ht=scontent.fyaw1-1.fna&oh=b5f53f47ae5c446ee68068d3b097e65d&oe=5EFCE1ED
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 01, 2020, 08:25:57 PM

2nd death in the USA just happened. Both deaths are 30 minutes away from where I live. Out of 9 people who finished their battle with the virus, 2 died and 7 recovered. Mortality rate from this virus is currently at 22% in America.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/second-person-dies-of-coronavirus-in-us/ar-BB10BBKe?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 01, 2020, 09:16:22 PM

I'm getting surrounded and will probably need help soon. I live in a suburb of Seattle and they are closing a high school in my city 15 minutes from where I live and the hospital 5 minutes from where I live just admitted a man infected with the virus. I was at that hospital a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/department-health-confirms-first-coronavirus-death-washington-state/XIDPHMLVOJAAREQ5YCL75367PU/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 01, 2020, 10:04:49 PM

I'm getting surrounded and will probably need help soon. I live in a suburb of Seattle and they are closing a high school in my city 15 minutes from where I live and the hospital 5 minutes from where I live just admitted a man infected with the virus. I was at that hospital a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/department-health-confirms-first-coronavirus-death-washington-state/XIDPHMLVOJAAREQ5YCL75367PU/

Yikes. Time for a vacation for you my friend!  :plane:  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 01, 2020, 11:05:54 PM

I'm getting surrounded and will probably need help soon. I live in a suburb of Seattle and they are closing a high school in my city 15 minutes from where I live and the hospital 5 minutes from where I live just admitted a man infected with the virus. I was at that hospital a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/department-health-confirms-first-coronavirus-death-washington-state/XIDPHMLVOJAAREQ5YCL75367PU/

Yikes. Time for a vacation for you my friend!  :plane:  :laugh:

Ain't got much money and the best vacation prices including airfare and hotel I can find are to a place called "Wuhan". Anybody know about that place? What to do? What to see?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 02, 2020, 12:29:01 AM

2nd death in the USA just happened. Both deaths are 30 minutes away from where I live. Out of 9 people who finished their battle with the virus, 2 died and 7 recovered. Mortality rate from this virus is currently at 22% in America.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/second-person-dies-of-coronavirus-in-us/ar-BB10BBKe?ocid=spartanntp

BillyB's  referring to an outbreak in a Nursing iome and out of 241 under supervision TWO have died .. There's that 1 percent I keep reminding folks of ..


https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus (https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus)


Now, Silly BillyB

As you other telling other folks I "recommended the wearing of surgical masks" ...could you post said quote, n full ?


 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 02, 2020, 10:56:29 AM
As you other telling other folks I "recommended the wearing of surgical masks" ...could you post said quote, n full ?



Masks are only effective, if changed regularly and worn correctly


I never said you recommend the wearing of surgical mask but you did say masks are effective on this forum and on the other forum you said they are useless. You are lying again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 02, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
As you other telling other folks I "recommended the wearing of surgical masks" ...could you post said quote, n full ?



Masks are only effective, if changed regularly and worn correctly


I never said you recommend the wearing of surgical mask but you did say masks are effective on this forum and on the other forum you said they are useless. You are lying again.

Surgical masks are a waist of time, there are masks that work but they need to fit properly among other things.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 02, 2020, 03:17:33 PM
These guys claim they are 100 times more effective than any N95 Masks:

https://www.ilcdover.com/catalog/infectious-disease-paprs/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImsmBpOf85wIVFiCtBh3nQwATEAAYAiAAEgJd3_D_BwE

This looks like a more long lasting N95 Mask Kit:

https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-6200-Double-Gas-Mask-Protection-Filter-Chemical-Gas-Respirator-Mask-p-1175732.html?cur_warehouse=CN

Doubles as a reuseable (Pop In New Filters) auto home sanding and painting mask N95 =  removes 95% of all airborne particulates... 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 02, 2020, 03:46:21 PM
They already know that it’s a bio warfare agent.


https://www.zerohedge.com/health/creator-bioweapons-act-says-coronavirus-biological-warfare-weapon
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 02, 2020, 04:55:01 PM

5 deaths in my county. Deaths tripled in my State overnight. There's an infected person at the hospital minutes from where I live. My mom was at Costco yesterday and the lines were the longest she ever seen. A neighbor was at the nearest supermarket and there was no bottled water on the shelves. Over a dozen schools shut down. A 44 story office building has been closed because someone who worked there interacted with a person who's now confirmed infected. My best friend's sister's husband played pool last week with the postal worker that was declared infected yesterday. My Vietnamese uncle, a retired nuke engineer, went on a tour of China last year in November. His train was supposed to pass through Wuhan in the middle of November and was stopped by the Chinese Army. The train was rerouted around Wuhan so he ended up missing that city. Don't want a bunch of tourists with cameras to visit that city. Kind of blows a hole in the theory that the virus was discovered in December.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 02, 2020, 05:03:51 PM
Quote
Dr. Zhang Junjian, who leads a temporary hospital in Wuhan with a staff of 1,260, said optimism is high that the facility will no longer be needed in the coming weeks.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/patients-fill-hospitals-more-places-065652817.html

It appears that we have passed the "hump" in China.  The virus now needs to find other targets before it goes back to hibernation.   :bow: :scared0005: (:) :o :-X :Zzzzsleep:

Quote
“My only question is, will my friends shun me after this?”

In a short answer, yes.   :chuckle:

Quote
U.S. stocks skyrocketed on Monday, with the Dow setting a single-day point record in a broad-based rebound, after mounting coronavirus fears sent global markets into a week-long swoon.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-market-news-live-updates-march-2-2020-003013975.html

Biggest drop followed by biggest rise.   :nod:  Remember that timing is everything.   :money: :king:

Quote
“In the case of China they have damaged the economy [and] they have to find a scapegoat,” Roubini told Yahoo Finance. “In the case of Iran, [they] have a damaged economy, a damaged regime and they have to lash out. That actually makes an attack even more likely.”

Quote
“It is in the interest of Iran to provoke the United States, Israel and the allies, to create chaos, spike oil prices... crush the market, create a recession and then you get rid of Donald Trump,”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/roubinis-preelection-scenario-iran-sows-chaos-that-dooms-trump-in-the-fall-135433476.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 02, 2020, 05:43:50 PM
They already know that it’s a bio warfare agent.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/creator-bioweapons-act-says-coronavirus-biological-warfare-weapon

Creator Of US BioWeapons Act Says
Coronavirus Is Biological Warfare Weapon

(https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/Dr-Francis-Boyle-Coronavirus-Biological-Warfare-Weapon.jpg?itok=sYvXX-qM)

In an explosive interview Dr. Francis Boyle, who drafted the Biological Weapons Act has given a detailed statement admitting that the 2019 Wuhan Coronavirus is an offensive Biological Warfare Weapon and that the World Health Organization (WHO) already knows about it.


Confed..... you are lazy ....LOL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 02, 2020, 07:10:12 PM
On the evening news tonight Harvard Professor Marc Lipsitch just said that 80 Million Americans could get the Corona Virus. That seems rather significant to me. TBH I suddenly got a bit nervous about it.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 02, 2020, 07:53:35 PM


I never said you recommend the wearing of surgical mask but you did say masks are effective on this forum and on the other forum you said they are useless. You are lying again.

Even after quoting my own words - for all to see - you try to tell us the wearing of a mask is 'helpful' ?..

1/ I said they are useless - after six mins ..

2/ I NOW know - as you should - the difference between surgical masks - which are useless - period..

and

 3/ Filter Masks N95 - more effective, but the user will suffer CO2 build up and need to remove it - or suffocate ...after  half an hour or so ..


Wearing a face mask is USELESS re protecting you from catching Coronavirus ..

"Sales of face masks surged by 846 percent in the UK last month but a public health professor has branded the measure “completely useless”. Professor Robert Dingwall, a researcher at Nottingham Trent University, told Express.co.uk: “There is no point in wearing face masks because they don’t protect you.”


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1248073/coronavirus-london-uk-news-face-masks-coronavirus-advice-public-health-england (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1248073/coronavirus-london-uk-news-face-masks-coronavirus-advice-public-health-england)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 02, 2020, 08:43:55 PM
Up in Ontario on business and I’ll tell ya, people are pretty freaked out up this way. Toronto has several new confirmed cases of COVID-19. I’m quite a ways north of the city, but with Toronto’s huge Asian population, I can understand why they’re concerned. On the plus side, the market is recovering.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 02, 2020, 08:54:59 PM
Up in Ontario on business and I’ll tell ya, people are pretty freaked out up this way. Toronto has several new confirmed cases of COVID-19. I’m quite a ways north of the city, but with Toronto’s huge Asian population, I can understand why they’re concerned. On the plus side, the market is recovering.

I wouldn’t count on much stability. Assuming up to 80 Million adults in the USA get the virus (40% of the 200 million adults in the USA, per Lipsitch), we’re in for some serious instability.

But today was great, for people like you with any money.  :laugh:

Up 1290 points today.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 02, 2020, 08:58:25 PM
Economists slash global economic growth forecasts.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/economists-slash-global-growth-forecasts-as-coronavirus-spreads/ar-BB10CSXO
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 02, 2020, 09:27:07 PM
I wouldn’t count on much stability. Assuming up to 80 Million adults in the USA get the virus (40% of the 200 million adults in the USA, per Lipsitch), we’re in for some serious instability.

That’s not a rosy picture, hopefully that prediction does not come to fruition, but it’s seeming more likely by the day. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 03, 2020, 04:13:06 PM
Quote
“We would advise people to wash their hands after handling banknotes, and avoid touching their face

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/who-world-health-organisation-coronavirus-banknotes-warning-111019361.html

Money bills and coins can be quite filthy.   :scared0005: :o :nod: ;D

Market reversed course and was down today.

Quote
Is there a possibility of a vaccine being developed in time to help the current situation?


No chance. None. Sorry.

Vaccine safety is so important. Back in 1976, they rushed out a swine flu vaccine—and it was a bad vaccine. There are still patients who refuse flu vaccines because of episodes like that.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/20-questions-coronavirus-answered-doctor-154300969.html

I remember the swine flu vaccine that got people sick from receiving it.  I haven't had a flu vaccination since middle school.   :chuckle: :whist11:

Quote
The virus turned up for the first time in New York, Moscow and Berlin, as well as Latvia, Malaysia, Morocco, Tunisia, Senegal, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Portugal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-latest-europe-china-spread-iran-world-health-organisation-a9371071.html

We need to trace every route of anyone who interacted with someone else who may have passed on the virus.  Or is this a case of something like nuclear fallout in the clouds?   ??? :-\   :biggrin: :scared0005:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 03, 2020, 04:24:35 PM

We need to trace every route of anyone who interacted with someone else who may have passed on the virus.  Or is this a case of something like nuclear fallout in the clouds?   ??? :-\   :biggrin: :scared0005:

Ever heard of the concept of six degrees of separation?
It is the idea that we are all connected to any other person in the world through a chain of just six intermediaries. On that basis, we are all only six people away from every person who has the Covid-19 virus. That implies that geographic spread is inevitable unless we all do as the Chinese have done. Of course, whatever they did was going to be too late because by the time a pattern was noticed it was already too late to do anything more than slow down the spread of the virus.

So, no, not like nuclear fallout, except that it kinda is. Not radiation spread in the air we breathe but passed by every single human interaction across the globe.

Seems to me that we should all have a global chickenpox party. get it over with fast, but the reason for not doing so is that the numbers of seriously ill people would turn the world's cities into charnel houses. On an individual basis though, getting an early dose in before the crowds overwhelm the world's healthcare might not be such a bad idea! Having passed through airports 4 times in the past five days I am probably in a better position than most to have picked it up. :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 03, 2020, 04:35:59 PM
Amazing the affect media has on this.
its growing in almost every corner of the earth.
But major media is likely making it worse.

Canada only has 30 cases Most in Ontario.
only one concerns me and should most people.
One person has it in Quebec, they can't track where he got it from.
He has not traveled and there is the problem.

Someone who did travel, gave it to him, knowingly or not.
Someone is either sick and not reporting or carrying and not knowing.
So think of that for just a minute.

80,000 plus confirmed cases, how many not even known  about.
It will have a huge effect on the economy as here ( no cases)
people and cancelling conferences, school trips, vacations etc.
Considering how small it is in North America to date.
Imagine what happens when it grows.

Couple of Caribbean Islands have already stopped all cruise ships from coming
imagine the impact of local business. this is going to get far worse, before it gets better.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 03, 2020, 04:56:04 PM
Quote
Having passed through airports 4 times in the past five days I am probably in a better position than most to have picked it up. :)

It depends.  Like with binary arithmetic, you either have it or not.  You could progress through a series of "0" situations which is 50/50 odds each time which are pretty good odds.  But best go to your underground "apocalypse" bunker to ensure complete isolation.   (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 03, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
The so-called death rate is based upon the people who are known to have been infected with Covid-19 virus and of that number the proportion who have died.

This is misleading in the extreme. Given that we do not know the number of infected people, but we do know it to be larger than the published figures, the death rate is lower than the numbers bruited about by propagandists.

The chances that I have not walked past somebody with Covid-19 are, I reckon, pretty slim. Whoever I shared a space with who is carrying the virus did not know they had it. The six degrees concept explains how somebody can contract the virus without knowing who they got it from and how, seemingly, they got it from somebody who has not been in an affected area.

The Quebecan, and others like that person, show that the virus is now in the community. That tells us that the virus will not be contained, although its spread can still be slowed down with effective measures of the type carried out in China.

Given that in the US, in particular, there is a real disincentive to seek out care and treatment we will see a rapid spread of the virus there as it enters the community. There's no way to change that until the US decides to make all testing and consequent treatment free and a guarantee that no people being tested/treated will be deported (and the same for their families) then the virus will spread unchecked and untracked until it is too late to be able to take any effective action.

dcguyusa, the situation is not a 50/50 case. The virus is dispersed by personal contact. An airport has the greatest proportion of people recently arrived from different parts of the world anywhere. Given that one can be symptom-free whilst infected for up to several weeks then one person going through the security theatre will come into close contact with thousands of others. They will touch items that are used by hundreds, if not thousands, of others before the virus would die on the surfaces of that object.

One person in a queue to pass airside can infect many others. Those people can then infect a multitude of others on their journey. I and my fellow travellers have the highest chance of getting an infection of anyone outside of areas already closed off due to known infections. Personally, as a healthy person, I would rather be infected today than in a few months. If I fall ill today I will receive good quality care, if I need it. That will probably not be true in a few weeks or months in many parts of the world.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 03, 2020, 05:14:20 PM
Quote
Amazing the affect media has on this.

I guess the better choice of reporting the illness would be to "ignore it".  Since the fatality numbers are well below the seasonal flu deaths, there is no need to even mention it in the news.  People who get it and die or not die are nothing special to report, just minor collateral damage.  As some have said, the "big to do" will die down.  Then there would be no impact to the markets, travel industry, global economy, extra work for health personnel, and no big profits for mask manufacturers and hand sanitizers.   Life goes on.   :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 03, 2020, 05:21:54 PM
The virus is more significant than the current versions of influenza. Simply allowing the cards to fall as they may is not a sensible outcome for society, although for individuals it may be a worthwhile strategy - for the reasons I gave above.

Rather than closing down information, it is more sensible to close down bad information. That's a problem because information is a market and while the market is distorted many people think they can believe what they read or see on the news/entertainment media they consume. The pushback from people who thought their consumption being censored would have an impact going far beyond this pandemic - they might start to question the media they consume in other areas of their lives and that, for some very powerful people and entities, is absolute anathema.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 03, 2020, 05:49:50 PM
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Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 03, 2020, 06:15:03 PM

We need to trace every route of anyone who interacted with someone else who may have passed on the virus.  Or is this a case of something like nuclear fallout in the clouds?   ??? :-\   :biggrin: :scared0005:

Ever heard of the concept of six degrees of separation?
It is the idea that we are all connected to any other person in the world through a chain of just six intermediaries. On that basis, we are all only six people away from every person who has the Covid-19 virus. That implies that geographic spread is inevitable unless we all do as the Chinese have done. Of course, whatever they did was going to be too late because by the time a pattern was noticed it was already too late to do anything more than slow down the spread of the virus.

So, no, not like nuclear fallout, except that it kinda is. Not radiation spread in the air we breathe but passed by every single human interaction across the globe.

Seems to me that we should all have a global chickenpox party. get it over with fast, but the reason for not doing so is that the numbers of seriously ill people would turn the world's cities into charnel houses. On an individual basis though, getting an early dose in before the crowds overwhelm the world's healthcare might not be such a bad idea! Having passed through airports 4 times in the past five days I am probably in a better position than most to have picked it up. :)

Well it’s been rather unusual reading your posts,

any famous last words you’d like to leave us with?  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 03, 2020, 07:44:31 PM
Since the fatality numbers are well below the seasonal flu deaths, there is no need to even mention it in the news.  People who get it and die or not die are nothing special to report, just minor collateral damage. 


One out of 1000 people who finished a battle with the flu will die. 999 will recover just fine. In America, 17 people finished their battle with the coronavirus. 8 people beat the virus, 9 people died. In Italy, 239 people finished a battle with the virus. 79 people died and 160 recovered. South Korea has similar mortality rates with 28 dying out of 58 people finished with their battle with the virus. If everybody in the world got this virus billions can die if mortality rates like in the above countries hold.

The human race can accept a few deaths from the flu and cold viruses. This coronavirus needs to be eliminated from our bodies completely. There's a lot of talk and hope about a vaccine/cure. This coronavirus is not related to the flu virus but the cold virus. There is no vaccine/cure for the common cold. If humanity is forced to live with this virus forever, it will alter our behavior forever.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

North Korea insists it has not coronavirus infections in its country. Chinese ambassador is asking UN for sanctions relief for North Korea stating North Korea is suffering but refuses to say what North Korea is suffering from.

https://tinyurl.com/rcrrelu
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 04, 2020, 05:44:46 AM
I have no fear of Covid-19. Unlike some posters I can do simple maths and think. I can even do both at the same time.

My final words, whenever they might be uttered, will be unrelated to the current pandemic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 04, 2020, 06:37:27 AM
I have no fear of Covid-19.


It's good you are following the directions of governments to not panic. Panic can kill more people than the virus. But if you did your math correctly, you will understand what governments and infectious diseases doctors understand and that is this virus can't continue like it is because too many will die and the world's economy will take a huge dump. Things are so bad in China that people aren't wanting to eat in Chinatowns all over the world.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 04, 2020, 06:56:13 AM
Given that in the US, in particular, there is a real disincentive to seek out care and treatment we will see a rapid spread of the virus there as it enters the community. There's no way to change that until the US decides to make all testing and consequent treatment free and a guarantee that no people being tested/treated will be deported (and the same for their families) then the virus will spread unchecked and untracked until it is too late to be able to take any effective action.

We think of healthcare in the US to be quite good, but in this case, perhaps not so much...........


I'm getting surrounded and will probably need help soon. I live in a suburb of Seattle and they are closing a high school in my city 15 minutes from where I live and the hospital 5 minutes from where I live just admitted a man infected with the virus. I was at that hospital a couple of weeks ago.

Speaking of Seattle, I read this thread this morning on Twitter. Which was quite sobering and not what one would expect in the Land of the Free [sic].

https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840

First case here in sunny Manchester today I just heard on the radio.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/breaking-new-coronavirus-case-confirmed-17859520

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 04, 2020, 07:59:16 AM
Not normally a Twitter reader but that thread you linked to is a tad scary!

What we are seeing now from the US is another case of projection - they have been accusing the Chinese of exactly that which they themselves are doing. As a strategy for understanding the world, it is worth considering that whatever the US says any other entity, person, state is doing (or not doing) is actually what is being done (or not done) in the US.

If I were a USAian, in the USA, right now, I'd be wanting to get infected right now because it is going to be hellish in a few weeks or months. I can understand why preppers are prepping over there!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 04, 2020, 08:10:51 AM
Shops are selling out of hand steriliser in the UK.. bog rolls are going like hot cakes..

Mass hysteria in overdrive.. more chance of being stabbed to death in London than dying from a strong form of the common cold..

Mark these words please : It will all be water under the bridge in less than 6 weeks time

Get a life people!! Take some Vitamin C and relax.. ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 04, 2020, 08:12:00 AM
Billyb, you are one of those unable to do the maths and thinking. Your post above shows that.

Here, just for you is a simple, hypothetical example.
Imagine a world in which 100 people are known to have a disease. Imagine that after 2 weeks 20 people have died. In your way of thinking, that would imply a death rate of 20%.

However, we know that our knowledge of the infection rate is imperfect, we can be pretty sure of the number of people who have died - for obvious reasons! So, let us assume that although we only detected 100 cases of infection that there were in truth 200 cases.

What is the death rate now for the same disease, after the same period of time?
The death rate is now 20 people from 200 infections giving a death rate after 2 weeks of just 10%.

The 'true' figure is thus far lower than the first number.

This is what we are seeing right now, around the world. We will only know the real death rate after some time, when we better understand the universe of infections and when we can track sufferers from infection to death (or recovery).

The only thing we can be sure of about the death rate at this time is that it is lower than we are being told it is!

==============

Whatever the infection rate or death rate this disease will cause significant social and economic disruption. Most of that disruption will be down to a lack of knowledge and lack of resources. It is almost certain that people will die needlessly due to positive disincentives to seek care in the USA and a lack of resources to treat those who need that care later on.

It seems that the temporary hospitals and care facilities set up in China are now falling into disuse as the peak of demand for them has passed. The USA needs to be preparing as the Chinese did. The Chinese had the disadvantage of having been surprised by what happened - that is not true for the USA and other countries around the world. The Chinese bought time for the rest of us - time that is being squandered right now in the USA and elsewhere - but particularly the USA given the fragility of your healthcare system.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 04, 2020, 09:45:23 AM
That twitter thread was indeed frightening. Her handle was “sketchy lady”. But TBH I wasn’t surprised. We’re all phooked. Or at least BillyB might be.

SketchyLady
Replying to
@dharmaFarm
“Nope, you've got it spot on. I work just above the minimum wage here and I genuinely can't afford to take days off.

If I wasn't a high risk patient myself I wouldn't have said anything and would still be putting others in danger.“
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 04, 2020, 10:04:10 AM

I have no fear of Covid-19.

Hmm, remind us of your BMI, again.... you're on the 'more at risk, if infected' scale ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 04, 2020, 10:46:20 AM
Billyb, you are one of those unable to do the maths and thinking. Your post above shows that.

Adrewfi, Reading your posts addressed to Billyb reminded me of Shirley Valentine talking to the wall!


 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 04, 2020, 11:10:05 AM
Yes, the thread opener was concerning, but the other posts were the thing that bothered me the most.

Yes, posters might be making stuff up, they might not be who they claim to be, but what they were saying is the stuff that has been noted as a hypothetical possibility elsewhere.

TBH, I reckon the OP was being something of a hypochondriac, but she seems to be working in exactly the environment where hypochondria in this context is a good thing! Can you imagine hundreds of thousands of poorly paid care workers across the USA all afraid of taking time off work? Imagine just a few of them infecting the people for whom they care.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 04, 2020, 11:15:58 AM
Yes, the thread opener was concerning, but the other posts were the thing that bothered me the most.

Yes, posters might be making stuff up, they might not be who they claim to be, but what they were saying is the stuff that has been noted as a hypothetical possibility elsewhere.

TBH, I reckon the OP was being something of a hypochondriac, but she seems to be working in exactly the environment where hypochondria in this context is a good thing! Can you imagine hundreds of thousands of poorly paid care workers across the USA all afraid of taking time off work? Imagine just a few of them infecting the people for whom they care.

That’s probably exactly what happened at Life Care nursing home in Kirkland, Washington state.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 04, 2020, 11:28:49 AM
Just downloading Shirley Valentine!
Thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 04, 2020, 04:31:27 PM
Speaking of Seattle, I read this thread this morning on Twitter. Which was quite sobering and not what one would expect in the Land of the Free [sic].

https://twitter.com/into_the_brush/status/1234685467682979840


Sketchy lady is an idiot lady. She was told by a doctor to go to the emergency room according to her Tweets and failed to do so. If anybody has a medical emergency, mental or physical, they can go to the emergency room and get seen in minutes and will not get refused medical attention as it's against the law for any medical facility to refuse someone with a medical emergency. A person doesn't have to have medical insurance or even be a citizen. As a matter of fact, a person can be an illegal living in America and they'll get medical attention if they visit the ER.

The COVID-19 HOTLINE: 1-800-525-0127 the lady called is a Washington State website for questions and answers and warns people there is high volume and waiting times. On the webpage there is an abundance of info to read to educate people on the virus, info on other resources and what to do if you get a virus and that is to call a doctor which the lady did and got the advice to go to the ER which she failed to do. What we have now is an idiot has received worldwide fame and the media has mind  :censored: ed their readers again.

Here, just for you is a simple, hypothetical example.
Imagine a world in which 100 people are known to have a disease. Imagine that after 2 weeks 20 people have died. In your way of thinking, that would imply a death rate of 20%.


Andrew, In your hypothetical example you can't take people infected with something and include them into mortality rates until their battle with the virus is over. You had reading comprehension problems with my last post to think I thought that way. I only include those who fully recovered or died into mortality rates. You can't included those fighting the virus into mortality rates yet. Let me give you an example of why it's wrong.

If you walk up to a South Korean woman who is infected and fighting for her life and tell her "I'm collecting data for mortality rates. Did you survive the virus or did you die from this virus?" She would answer "You're an idiot". That is because you are trying to label her into the survivor category or died category when you're not supposed to do that until her fight with the virus is over. Don't make the mistake again of counting those currently infected into mortality rates.

There is a lot of news and claims this virus isn't as deadly as the flu. Look how governments behave. Look how smart people behave. They know the death rate is a lot higher with this virus than the flu.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 04, 2020, 05:17:10 PM
It’s curious to note the panic buying of hand gel, wipes and sprays here.

Some people are going to make a lot of cash out of this.

I am a bit of a germophobe anyway so I had about a dozen small bottles of hand gel in stock already and various others around vehicle glove boxes and in my travel bags. But I decided to buy some more and was initially out of luck as everywhere was out of stock of everything.

A relative who works in a hospital arrived yesterday with six 500ml bottles of surgical hand gel; which is nice. A pal in a pharmacy held back a big box of Dettol wipes and some Dettol surface spray tins for us too. This means in our business we can have a bottle of hand gel on the counter for customers and have spray to spray the credit card machine buttons and the doorhandles. Every little helps where one might interact with the public.

It did occur to me that a virus such as this will exhibit itself more noticeably along a class divide. In London and Birmingham for example, large crowded cities with many immigrants will be hard hit.

Many of the immigrants have habitually poor personal hygiene. I think we will see big spikes of infection in London and Birmingham. These are the people that mingle together on public transport for example. They are travelling on buses, trains and the metro. They are eating fast food from places with questionable hygiene.

The middle class who don’t use public transport, who avoid fast food joints and crowded places full of immigrants will fare slightly better methinks. These are the people shopping for groceries online rather than mingling in Tesco’s and Aldi. They are cooking at home rather than eating fast food prepared in dodgy places. They are driving home in the car and not being coughed all over on public transport.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 04, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote
The global death rate for the novel coronavirus based on the latest figures is 3.4%...In contrast, the seasonal flu kills 0.1% of those infected.

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-confirms-coronavirus-global-death-rate-rises-fatalities-numbers-2020-3

Quote
"It's like a ghost town," Francisco said about the famous Pike Place Market where she has her shop

https://www.yahoo.com/news/seattle-ghost-town-residents-face-040500149.html

Good that I left the area back on Halloween.
 :nod:

Quote
•Coronavirus is relatively benign compared to other contagious pathogens. Roughly 98% of infected individuals fully recover, and deaths are limited to people with weakened immune systems, who in many cases are suffering from other illnesses.

Quote
In summary, the current situation experienced this week is nothing new – we’ve lived through similar situations many times (see chart above). The short-run headlines can get more painful, but in the meantime, you can wash your hands and bathe in Purell. This too shall pass.

https://www.gurufocus.com/news/1064492/this-too-shall-pass/r/caf6fe0e0db70d936033da5461e60141

Market is way up again today.  What goes down must come up.   :P :king:   :money:

Quote
Apple Inc.  co-founder Steve Wozniak claimed on Monday that he and his wife might have been the first coronavirus cases in the U.S.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-wozniak-says-might-us-133229443.html

Apple is a virus after all.    :chuckle:

Quote
The coronavirus could spread in a patient’s urine or faeces, according to an official report.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-covid19-virus-faeces-urine-155051554.html

Don't touch that smartphone.   :laugh: :evilgrin0002:

Quote
“The Kim regime prioritizes projecting strength and controlling panic over protecting public health. It will thus underreport its coronavirus problem until a crisis is undeniable,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ever-secretive-north-korea-says-085205735.html

As I said before, stability and harmony overrides several million dead.

 :GRAVE:
Quote
"As I am the last survivor, I say thank you very much and praise be to God," she told Reuters.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hails-good-news-congo-sees-162638706.html

The end is near.   :chuckle: (:) :bow: :popcorn: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 04, 2020, 05:40:09 PM
Quote
The global death rate for the novel coronavirus based on the latest figures is 3.4%...In contrast, the seasonal flu kills 0.1% of those infected.

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-confirms-coronavirus-global-death-rate-rises-fatalities-numbers-2020-3


Business Insider says latest death rate is 3.4% which is up from 2%. LOL. Quite a big jump and the experts are still far off the mark. China has the majority of cases and have been under reporting deaths. Now deaths from other parts of the world are get factored in with much higher death rates and the overall death rate jumps 70%.

As of right now, 383 people finished a battle with the virus and 107 died while 276 recovered. It's high mortality rates like that which will bring up the low mortality rates China is reporting.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 04, 2020, 10:08:21 PM
It’s curious to note the panic buying of hand gel, wipes and sprays here.

..says the guy who demonstrates he is doing the v.same ..

It did occur to me that a virus such as this will exhibit itself more noticeably along a class divide. In London and Birmingham for example, large crowded cities with many immigrants will be hard hit.

Many of the immigrants have habitually poor personal hygiene. I think we will see big spikes of infection in London and Birmingham. These are the people that mingle together on public transport for example. They are travelling on buses, trains and the metro. They are eating fast food from places with questionable hygiene.

The middle class who don’t use public transport, who avoid fast food joints and crowded places full of immigrants will fare slightly better methinks. These are the people shopping for groceries online rather than mingling in Tesco’s and Aldi. They are cooking at home rather than eating fast food prepared in dodgy places. They are driving home in the car and not being coughed all over on public transport.

 :ROFL:

I realise you don't like venturing into London and using public transport ..

Those who DO use the Underground and trains , planes - realising it's quicker -  would not see the Saville Row biz suits and brogues ( male) and designer clothes / shoes and exotic scents ( ladies) of decidedly social economic type A's and B's types in  who realise getting from A to B is quicker on the Underground ..( London's metro system ) or national rail network.

Unless you have a private jet - you'll no doubt be staying in the UK - I mean you wouldn't want to encounter these migrants travelling 'home' when you're on the same flight ..?;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 04, 2020, 11:53:39 PM
I tend not to use Pakistan International Airlines, and as the underground you refer to is London, your comment about the non poor using it only applies there.

In places that aren’t London, public transport is mostly used by the poor as you’ll know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 05, 2020, 01:15:50 AM
I tend not to use Pakistan International Airlines, and as the underground you refer to is London, your comment about the non poor using it only applies there.

In places that aren’t London, public transport is mostly used by the poor as you’ll know.

My ex mother in law always uses public transport and she has about 40,000 a month coming in.. 12 mansion holiday homes and about 5000 acres of land in Dorset.. also always buys her new outfits from the local charity shops..yes underwear also.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 05, 2020, 01:30:57 AM
I tend not to use Pakistan International Airlines, and as the underground you refer to is London, your comment about the non poor using it only applies there.

In places that aren’t London, public transport is mostly used by the poor as you’ll know.

Tosh,

1/ Public transport is used by people with Range Rovers who park 'em in the Railway station and travel first class on season tickets

2/  Taxis carried a member of the pubic just before you ..who who's it might have been a PIA passenger

3/ PLENTY of Social economic group A/B's use the Moscow metro system or Tokyo's Toei or Metoro - rather than sit in their RR and move no where..   

4/ Tbilisi ... In the day time - if you want to get north south - the metro wins - as you'd simply take 3/ 4 times longer by Taxi / private car




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 05, 2020, 03:55:52 AM
Billy, please try your best not to project your shortcomings on others. I used a very simple example to help you to understand a rather simple idea. That you cannot grasp it means I did not go simple enough for simple Billy.

Lets try again and this time I will not even trouble you with pesky numbers.
If you do not know how many people have been infected then you cannot know the death rate.

We know that we do not know how many people have been infected. We do know that there are more cases than we know about. Most of those will recover without us ever knowing about it.

Thus the death rate must be lower than the claimed figures which are based upon the known cases.

Sorry I don't think I can make it more simple for you. Don't worry there will be more propaganda for you to, uncritically, swallow in a little while.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 05, 2020, 08:38:52 AM

We know that we do not know how many people have been infected. We do know that there are more cases than we know about. Most of those will recover without us ever knowing about it.

Thus the death rate must be lower than the claimed figures which are based upon the known cases.


You think like a Chinese Communist leader. You are willing to include infected people we don't know about to lower the death rate but you fail to included infected dead people we do not know about into the death rate to raise the death rate. It's a way you and Chinese deceive people about the death rate but you need to hone your skills. Maybe you actually believe the crap you say?

If you do not know how many people have been infected then you cannot know the death rate.


We can calculate death rate with what we do KNOW,  those confirmed recovered and dead. Don't speculate there are more infected and dead out there undetected and will decrease or increase the death rate to help with your narrative on what is actually happening. Nobody knows if they had the flu or corona virus then recovered or died undetected. It's too late to test them.

Right now, Italy reports 107 dead and 276 recovered after a battle with the virus. That's a 28% death rate for them at this moment which means it's 280 times more deadlier than the flu.

The Chinese province of Zhejiang of near the same population as Italy reports 1 dead and 1124 people recovered. .09% death rate which means less people there are dying from this virus than the flu.

Now you can continue to believe the Chinese has some kind of super immune system over Italians but I will continue to state Chinese severely under reports how bad the virus is. So while mortality rates are extremely high in most other nations, the Chinese brings death rate way down since they have the bulk of the cases so WHO now concludes death rate is 3.4%. I trust the Italian numbers more than the Chinese. As the rest of the world increases infections, deaths and recoveries and add more weight to offset the low Chinese death rate, you can expect WHO to revise the death rates even higher.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 05, 2020, 01:15:41 PM
BillyB

Where DO you get your 'data' ?

I recommend who.int  (http://who.int)

Hubei and Italy are approx 60 million and have a death rate of c.3.8%

MOST people 'get' that many cases never get reported, but deaths DO ...

Where do you get the 3.4% for WHO ..

Did you actually TRY to take their figures and see the somewhat lower figure ... ?




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 05, 2020, 04:57:27 PM
Quote
But even in the low-severity model — or best-case scenario of the seven, which the paper acknowledged were not definitive — ANU researchers estimate a global GDP loss of $2.4 trillion, with an estimated death toll of 15 million. They modeled their estimates on the Hong Kong flu pandemic, an outbreak in 1968-1969 that is estimated to have killed about 1 million people.

In the high-severity model — modeled after the Spanish flu pandemic, which killed an estimated 17 million to 50 million globally from 1918 to 1920 — the global GDP loss could be as high as $9 trillion. In that model, the death toll is estimated to surpass 68 million.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-toll-global-gdp-loss-australian-national-university-study-2020-3

So we have between 15 to 68 million dead.  As I said before, harmony and stability override several million dead.

 :GRAVE: :( :drunk:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 05, 2020, 10:06:49 PM
Quote
The global death rate for the novel coronavirus based on the latest figures is 3.4%...In contrast, the seasonal flu kills 0.1% of those infected.

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-confirms-coronavirus-global-death-rate-rises-fatalities-numbers-2020-3


I read the WHO link below for the statement on that and they never said the death/mortality rate is 3.4%. They said "Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died." That's not mortality rate but the media wrongly translated it to be that. The death rate is higher.

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020

Italy and South Korea in a short period of time has a higher rate of infection than Chinese among their populations. With this virus starting in China undetected for months and the lack of real effort to stop it for months in China, one would figure China would have the highest rate of infection among it's population by far. I also see 2nd and 3rd world nations have a lower death rate than Western nations. Go figure. Lots of under reporting going around.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 06, 2020, 01:15:57 AM
Hello my American friends,
Make sure you know this official ChiNazi information.  I heard that this whole event was a planned bio-weapon attack on USA troops!  BUT failed and hurt ChiNazi themselves!!!



Nature Medicine
Published: 09 November 2015

One of the author is Zhengli-Li Shi from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows "potential for human emergence"
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985



In 18th September 2019, there was a Wuhan Customs/Military emergency exercise.  The name "new type of coronavirus" had already been mentioned!!!

"This exercise simulates the entire process of handling a case of a new type of coronavirus infection."

English translation page link:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctdsb.net%2Fhtml%2F2019%2F0918%2FsportsMeet260345.html

Original Hubei Province Chinese page link:
http://www.ctdsb.net/html/2019/0918/sportsMeet260345.html




One month later in October, The 2019 Military World Games was held in Wuhan as well!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 06, 2020, 03:32:39 AM
Billy, mortality rate and death rate are synonyms. They will be the same in all cases where the basis of calculation is the same.

From Wikipedia:
Mortality rate, or death rate, is a measure of the number of deaths in a particular population, scaled to the size of that population, per unit of time.

No wonder you, and others, get so easily confused!

Now I am certain that any effort on my part to show you how it is that the current numbers for death rate due to covid-19 is an overstatement has been a waste. Unless you know what the words mean and understand some very basic concepts there's no hope of me, or anyone else, teaching you.

This is very saddening, increasingly I find myself wondering whether such a low level of basic knowledge is the fault of the individual or a structural choice by education policy makers. On the whole, I don't think that I blame you or your peers except in so far as there is no willingness to learn when given the opportunity.

If you are interested I can share with you information about the way in which death rates are inferred from incomplete data. This process is not being carried out for covid-19 due to the short period of time that the disease has been in the population. The statisticians do not have the data to make a reliable inference during the early stages of a new disease.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 08:01:00 AM

Andrew, since the virus has got you confused, try this exercise. Infants are babies under 1 yo. Go up to a woman who just gave birth and ask her "I'm conducting infant mortality rates. Has your baby survived or died infancy?" She will call you an idiot. Even a 5 yo child knows the question you ask is dumb. You can't include a baby that has not completed infancy into infant mortality rates until the baby if finished being an infant. You can't include those currently infected with the virus into mortality rates until they finish their battle with the virus.


I'm going to take 4 regions of the world with similar populations and compare them. Two regions are known to be more dishonest with what is going on than the others. Two regions are not 1st World nations. Guess which two are being dishonest using today's numbers.

South Korea reports 42 deaths and 135 recoveries

Italy reports 148 deaths and 414 recoveries

Iran reports 124 deaths and 913 recoveries

Chinese province of Zhejiang reports 1 death and 1147 recoveries

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Also in a much shorter time and given warning the virus is floating around South Korea, Italy, and Iran all have higher rates of infection among it's population than China who got it first and didn't take action on it right away.

Whatever you do or they report to imply death rate is low, it's BS. The death rate will climb but never to the true number because of dishonest reporting and there are many deaths that doesn't get reported because the bodies were never tested for the virus and thus blame of death will be recorded as influenza or pneumonia.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 06, 2020, 08:18:20 AM
Billy, what are you blathering about?
Babies?

Are you so simple as to think that the cause of death of a person is based upon what relatives say?

You do not understand what you are writing. This is pointless. The odd thing is that you did not even understand that what you write supports the point I was making.

Oh, South Korea is a really good example that shows a better picture of what is really happening. They have been doing very large scale testing which has uncovered many cases of Covid-19. A few hours ago there had been 6284 cases uncovered and 42 deaths. That is a mortality rate of 0.67%. The difference is the testing regime!

In the US there seems to be a purposeful effort to NOT test and check people. That means there will be lots of undiscovered cases. The deaths though, they will be recorded with a fair degree of accuracy for, again, obvious reasons. The result will be an apparently much higher death rate in the USA.

You are posting like a very odd, simple, man.

Go and learn what the words you try to use mean.
Then have a go at understanding how reporting is carried out and how statistics are collected and then analysed. Ask your relatively bright mother in law for help.

Oh, and while you are at it, do a little learning about the rapidity with which China took action to control the spread of the disease. Look at the dates and the numbers. Ask somebody who can use a calendar and count for help. For assistance, it is worth noting that the WHO has been laudatory toward the speed with which the Chinese acted and the type of action they took. You might want to compare that with what is happening in your adopted homeland.

When you understand what is actually happening you will have a better handle on what is happening. I understand that you will not, out of pride, be able to accept that you might have been misled, but I can live with that. :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 08:35:20 AM
Hello my American friends,
Make sure you know this official ChiNazi information.  I heard that this whole event was a planned bio-weapon attack on USA troops!  BUT failed and hurt ChiNazi themselves!!!



Biological weapons are created to hurt all enemies but doesn't mean they are going to be actually used against anybody, especially if there is no cure to stop it from infecting the army that is using the biological weapon. I don't believe the Chinese was going to start a biological war. They got better biological weapons to use and that are more controllable.

English translation page link:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctdsb.net%2Fhtml%2F2019%2F0918%2FsportsMeet260345.html


This article blows my mind. Earlier I wrote my uncle was touring China in mid November and his train was stopped by the military and was told they couldn't come into the city. Don't want a bunch of tourists with cameras in there, do we? Your article said the first case of the virus came into the city mid September and a month later, people weren't allowed to enter the city.

Oh, South Korea is a really good example that shows a better picture of what is really happening. They have been doing very large scale testing which has uncovered many cases of Covid-19. A few hours ago there had been 6284 cases uncovered and 42 deaths. That is a mortality rate of 0.67%. The difference is the testing regime!


Again, you're using South Korea's population who's infected and lumping them all into the survival category to calculate your death rate. You need to wait till those people finish their battle with the virus before lumping them into the survivor or dead categories. The fact you continue to do this shows you have a problem learning. Try this exercise again.

Since there are still over 6000 South Koreans fighting for their lives against the virus tell them "I'm collecting data for mortality rates. Did you survive the virus or did you die from this virus?" They would answer "You're an idiot". That is because you are trying to label them into the survivor category or died category when you're not supposed to do that until their fight with the virus is over. Even those who are sick, dumb, have dementia and 5 yo kids would know your question is stupid and it's stupid trying to lump those currently infected into the survivor category to bring down the death rates. Some of those currently infected will be going into the dead pool so please don't lump all those currently infected into the survivor category to lower the death rates to help with your narrative of what's going on.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 06, 2020, 09:42:53 AM
I just called in at a local farm to collect some firewood and eggs, as you do. I was chatting with the farmer and he was telling me that they are this week vaccinating their cows as they do this time each year before calving season.

I got the impression that like our flu vaccines, the vaccinations they administer to cows are updated each year. He noted that this year one of the conditions listed on the accompanying paperwork was Bovine Coronavirus.

This leads to the question of if cows have it, why doesn't it transfer to people from them as it is alleged to have done between pangolins and bats in China? Why are we not infected by eating beef or other meats where the animal might have had Coronavirus? I bet all cows are not vaccinated, there'll be lots of black market meat out there (like the horsemeat scandal we had in the UK).

Me and him not being virologists, the discussion soon petered out as we didn't know the answers. It is an interesting line of thought though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 06, 2020, 09:46:42 AM
Quote
But around the world, as the number of cases passed 100,000, governments have displayed signs of paralysis, obfuscation and a desire to protect their own interests, even as death tolls passed 3,200 and global capitals were so threatened by infection that politicians and health officials tested positive for the illness.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-live-updates-time-to-act-who-chief-warns/ar-BB10OCSH

Like I said, harmony and stability override several million dead.    :dh: :'( :GRAVE: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 06, 2020, 10:26:19 AM
I just called in at a local farm to collect some firewood and eggs, as you do. I was chatting with the farmer and he was telling me that they are this week vaccinating their cows as they do this time each year before calving season.

I got the impression that like our flu vaccines, the vaccinations they administer to cows are updated each year. He noted that this year one of the conditions listed on the accompanying paperwork was Bovine Coronavirus.

This leads to the question of if cows have it, why doesn't it transfer to people from them as it is alleged to have done between pangolins and bats in China? Why are we not infected by eating beef or other meats where the animal might have had Coronavirus? I bet all cows are not vaccinated, there'll be lots of black market meat out there (like the horsemeat scandal we had in the UK).

Me and him not being virologists, the discussion soon petered out as we didn't know the answers. It is an interesting line of thought though.

Because this coronavirus didn’t come about from rare or normal animals.

It’s a man-made bio weapon which was accidentally released from one of the Wuhan bio laboratories.


https://www.globalresearch.ca/russian-appraisal-china-coronavirus/5703761
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 06, 2020, 10:30:09 AM
Why would a biological weapon have a sub 3% mortality rate? As a biological weapon, its a bit crap methinks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 06, 2020, 10:33:03 AM
Why would a biological weapon have a sub 3% mortality rate? As a biological weapon, its a bit crap methinks.

Yes I agree.

I don’t believe it was fully formed, it was just in a research stage.

And then it accidentally was released by a researcher upon going home.


More on Wuhan Virology Research Institution.


https://www.ccn.com/could-the-deadly-coronavirus-actually-be-a-man-made-killer-disease/


I like this quote:

“We have too many people in the world. We cannot continue reproducing like this; if we do not self regulate then it will be done for us. It has begun already. New virus's will continue to be man made until the population reduces drastically. The animal kingdom self regulates; we do not other than natural diseases and wars.” 

Charles Darwin.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 10:54:24 AM
This leads to the question of if cows have it, why doesn't it transfer to people from them as it is alleged to have done between pangolins and bats in China? Why are we not infected by eating beef or other meats where the animal might have had Coronavirus? I bet all cows are not vaccinated, there'll be lots of black market meat out there (like the horsemeat scandal we had in the UK).


Not all viruses are harmful to humans or may harm us only slightly. The common cold viruses are harmless. But our immune system tries to get rid of it anyway by making us cough, sneeze, and getting runny noses.

This new coronavirus is related to the cold virus but much more deadlier than the flu. It's like a cold virus on steroids.

Why would a biological weapon have a sub 3% mortality rate? As a biological weapon, its a bit crap methinks.


Killing isn't the only way to stop an army. Some land mines are designed to destroy just a foot, not kill a soldier. At least two healthy soldiers would have to carry an injured soldier back to the base which means at least 3 soldiers are out of the battle due to one injury. Making an Army sick is also a way of taking many soldiers out of the battle. It's also psychologically damaging when soldiers learn the enemy just dropped a biological weapon on them so it'll increase the chances of the army fleeing.

This virus is more deadly than what is reported. South Korea and Italy have big pools of people infected, dead, and recovered so we can get a better picture of what is going on. In Italy and South Korea, for every 3 people that has recovered, one has died. That's around a 25% death rate. Numbers may go down a little since the best doctors and equipment are helping people beat the virus but if everybody got the virus, there's not enough best doctors and respiratory equipment for everybody.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 06, 2020, 12:43:36 PM
By natural selection, 20% of 2003 SARS patients will die.  With the help of medical apparatus, one half of these 20% patients can recover.  So do NOT believe the figures announced by ChiNazi government.


1. They invest hundred billion dollars in monitoring people, propaganda and keeping their tyrant.  There is only very few money for public health.
2. Each day, only several hundred Wuhan virus test agents are available in Wuhan city. Each hospital only receive tenths of test agents.  Therefore, the maximum number of confirmed cases is only several hundreds each day in Wuhan city.  People with power have the highest priority to receive the test.
3. Many patients die without being confirmed.
4. Many patients die before they begin treatment.
5. Many suspected patients die inside their homes after being locked down with electrical welding on their home door.

So in the case of ChiNazi, the actual number of confirmed cases and number of death are very different from the official figures.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 06, 2020, 01:29:36 PM
Why would a biological weapon have a sub 3% mortality rate? As a biological weapon, its a bit crap methinks.

The wacko conspiracies and their 'believers' abound :  Silly BillyB, Cornfed ....  It's the Chinese

                                          According to RT - the Iranians are blaming it on the US ...

https://www.rt.com/news/482405-iran-coronavirus-us-biological-weapon/ (https://www.rt.com/news/482405-iran-coronavirus-us-biological-weapon/)



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 06, 2020, 04:09:14 PM
I was reading today about the virus in Taiwan and Iran - quite different.

Im interested about Taiwan because Ive just made an order with a company there (I couldnt find a Chinese company that wasnt closed because of the virus) and as a result I am planning on visiting when I can. It seems Taiwan is all over it. See here (https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/why-taiwan-has-just-42-coronavirus-cases-while-neighbors-report).

Iran - another country I was planning on visiting but now probably wont - is suffering badly. The reasons for this is for similar reasons to my theories about poor people I wrote about back thread. It will get much worse in Iran and it will spread through many of the Third World Muslim countries like wildfire. Places where there is limited education, ropey healthcare and questionable hygiene.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 06, 2020, 05:23:21 PM
Quote
"I am particularly concerned that, in order to satisfy the 80/20 rule, airlines may be forced to fly aircraft at very low load factors, or even empty, in order to retain their slots," Shapps wrote.

"Such a scenario is not acceptable. It is not in the industry's, the passengers' or the environment's interest and must be avoided."

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-airlines-run-empty-ghost-flights-planes-passengers-outbreak-covid-2020-3

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-airlines-forced-operate-almost-122528588.html

It's always about the money.   :nod: :money: (:)

Quote
Businesses have reportedly falsified staff attendance logs as well — they "would rather waste a small amount of money on power than irritate local officials,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-fake-whistleblowers-191300391.html

Quote
"It's fake it's fake! They've shouted what is in the hearts of many of us citizens," said one user on Weibo. "Finally, there's someone saying what I've wanted to say for years."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cries-fake-wuhan-citizens-voice-145755273.html

Again, stability and harmony override several million dead.   :GRAVE: :-X

Quote
Victims in the United Kingdom have lost more than 800,000 pounds ($1 million) to coronavirus-linked scams since last month, with criminals tricking fearful people who wanted to buy protective masks, police said on Friday.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-fraud-uk-victims-lose-131053353.html

Again, it's all about the money.   :duh: (:)

Quote
Trump later put the number at less than 1%.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/05/coronavirus-trump-disputes-world-health-organization-death-rate/4961519002/

So we agree to disagree??  Who's the one making fake news now?  :chuckle: :duh: (:) :-\

Quote
Twelve asymptomatic cases of the coronavirus have been registered on board a Nile cruise ship, the World Health Organization (WHO) and Egypt's health ministry said on Friday.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/egypt-registers-12-coronavirus-cases-114307352.html

Another cruise ship with carriers.  The travel industry is going to get hit BIG like soon after 9/11.   :hidechair: :travel:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 06:02:13 PM

Everything is getting longer. Right now a 7 day cruise lasts at least 30 days....if you survive that long. After the cruise ship disaster in Japan with over 700  infected including the ship's quarantine officer, I can imagine the regret the passengers off the coast of California feel for not cancelling. If this keeps up, it may be cheaper for cruise ship companies to shut down. Lawsuits aren't pretty.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/vp-pence-says-21-people-on-the-grand-princess-cruise-ship-off-california-coast-have-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB10QVn0?ocid=spartanntp

China is faking their recovery citizens claim. Lights left on in buildings to give impression people are working.  Zhejiang, an province east of the epicenter city of Wuhan, claimed as of Feb. 24 it had restored 98.6 percent of its pre-coronavirus work capacity. Zhejiang is the province that reports 1147 recoveries and only one death a ratio less deadlier than influenza. If you believe the Chinese government, go ahead and visit for vacation or for business. Vacation packages are cheap now.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-fake-whistleblowers-191300391.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 06, 2020, 06:18:13 PM
By natural selection, 20% of 2003 SARS patients will die.  With the help of medical apparatus, one half of these 20% patients can recover.  So do NOT believe the figures announced by ChiNazi government.


1. They invest hundred billion dollars in monitoring people, propaganda and keeping their tyrant.  There is only very few money for public health.
2. Each day, only several hundred Wuhan virus test agents are available in Wuhan city. Each hospital only receive tenths of test agents.  Therefore, the maximum number of confirmed cases is only several hundreds each day in Wuhan city.  People with power have the highest priority to receive the test.
3. Many patients die without being confirmed.
4. Many patients die before they begin treatment.
5. Many suspected patients die inside their homes after being locked down with electrical welding on their home door.

So in the case of ChiNazi, the actual number of confirmed cases and number of death are very different from the official figures.

LoyalMan why are you calling China ChiNazi? Don’t you know that’s an insult to good Nazi’s all over the World?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 06, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
I was reading today about the virus in Taiwan and Iran - quite different.

Im interested about Taiwan because Ive just made an order with a company there (I couldnt find a Chinese company that wasnt closed because of the virus) and as a result I am planning on visiting when I can. It seems Taiwan is all over it. See here (https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/why-taiwan-has-just-42-coronavirus-cases-while-neighbors-report).

Iran - another country I was planning on visiting but now probably wont - is suffering badly. The reasons for this is for similar reasons to my theories about poor people I wrote about back thread. It will get much worse in Iran and it will spread through many of the Third World Muslim countries like wildfire. Places where there is limited education, ropey healthcare and questionable hygiene.

Are you feeling okay?

That link for Taiwan is from Voice of America!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 06, 2020, 07:14:57 PM
ABC News full on urgent 20/20 Outbreak 2 hour live broadcast Friday night Nationwide prime time.

Just listening to the panic in David Muir's voice gives you a level of fight or flight anxiety.

Dr. Adams the U.S. surgeon general not sure exactly how the Feds and Military will coordinate "when we have a plan we will communicate that to the American people".

They do not now have a plan... The USA about to look like Wuhan, Iran and Italy combined... We are all bloody PHOOKED!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 06, 2020, 07:25:05 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-how-hospitals-are-preparing-for-us-coronavirus-outbreak-2020-3

Here's a look at the presentation, which includes estimated projections of as many as 96 million cases in the US, 4.8 million hospitalizations, and 480,000 deaths associated with the novel coronavirus.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2020, 07:43:39 PM
Im interested about Taiwan because Ive just made an order with a company there (I couldnt find a Chinese company that wasnt closed because of the virus) and as a result I am planning on visiting when I can. It seems Taiwan is all over it. See here (https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/why-taiwan-has-just-42-coronavirus-cases-while-neighbors-report).


Seems like Taiwan was active in containing the virus based off people talking about it informally before China announced it to the world.

The Chinese government didn't allow the local government of Wuhan to report the virus. Zhou, mayor of Wuhan apologized for the delay which he blamed on government policy. Comment below is in link below. Also some at the potluck got the virus.

Zhou later took responsibility for the delay in reporting the scale of the epidemic, but said he was hampered by the national law on infectious diseases.
That law allows provincial governments to declare an epidemic only after receiving central government approval.
"After I receive information, I can only release it when I'm authorised," he said.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/regional/2020/02/06/wuhan-neighbourhood-sees-infections-after-40000-families-gather-for-potluck

https://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-how-hospitals-are-preparing-for-us-coronavirus-outbreak-2020-3

Here's a look at the presentation, which includes estimated projections of as many as 96 million cases in the US, 4.8 million hospitalizations, and 480,000 deaths associated with the novel coronavirus.


Couldn't read the link. Says I need to subscribe. Based on what you said it says, it could get real bad if we don't get this thing stopped.

A couple of days ago WHO put out a statement saying this virus is deadlier than previously thought. I already knew that. They also said "This virus is not SARS, it’s not MERS, and it’s not influenza. It is a unique virus with unique characteristics." and "at the moment there is no vaccine and no specific treatment for COVID-19" and "we must do everything we can to contain it."

http://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020

Today WHO says it's false hope to think this virus will disappear in the summer like the flu. As infections disease experts learn more about this virus, be prepared for more bad news. Experts, not the Moby kind, have already talked about it and it's clear it's going to get real bad if we don't stop it. Governments don't want to scare people and cause panic. If everybody stops working and functioning, that's a bad scenario so it's best to get people to believe it's okay to keep working and living while sacrificing a few. So they put out articles this virus isn't so bad. Problem is to contain this virus, quarantining people will be a big part of it. If we do not stop the virus, periodic quarantine will be a part of our lives when an outbreak happens. There's an increasing chance somebody on this forum will experience life the way the citizens of Wuhan do.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/its-a-false-hope-coronavirus-will-disappear-in-the-summer-like-the-flu-who-says/ar-BB10QrLc?ocid=spartanntp

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 07, 2020, 03:16:50 AM
SillyBillyB,

Hasn't all your 'expertise' on this virus led to you being pushed vids of those who have had the virus...?

Headache, fever, followed by the cough....coming out of nowhere...?



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 07, 2020, 07:51:07 AM
If you take a look at the announcement from the British government the other day, led by Boris Johnson, you will see the best approach to the issue that I have yet seen.

The government and advisors, implicitly, understand that Covid-19 will spread into the population. They did not make a big thing of this, and rightly so. However, that insight has led to a multi-stage plan which was outlined.
1) Delay
2) Containment
3) Research
4) Mitigate

Delay is the current process of early identification and control of movement from overseas infection hotspots. This reduces the rate at which new infections occur but it cannot be expected to stop the disease in its tracks. The UK's CMO has now announced that phase two is now starting to come into effect: .

Containment is the mechanism for limiting spread within the UK once Covid-19 breaks into the wider community. So, school closures, restrictions on large scale public gatherings, work from home schemes.

The goal of containment is to reduce the inevitable impact of Covid-19 on the populace and health resources. The strategy is to reduce the peak numbers and spread the demand for healthcare over time. At the same time, additional resources are being marshalled to help cope with inevitable demand - this will take some time to carry out, just as was the case in China. These resources will be put into play during the mitigation phase which is where sufferers will be getting the care and treatment they need in order to reduce the mortality rate.

The 'reasonable worst case' scenario for the UK is for a death rate of around 1%, assuming that Covid-19 does spread into the community. The low number is based upon the availability of a modicum of healthcare. We know that the death rate is much lower when decent healthcare is available. That's why, in China, the death rate was much higher in Wuhan than in other areas of the country. Same in South Korea where sufferers get the care they need.

Here's a link to the UK plan structure: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-action-plan/coronavirus-action-plan-a-guide-to-what-you-can-expect-across-the-uk

For those who are still unsure about how to count or understand how data is gathered, here is a link to an editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine. In the piece, the author goes through recent research looking at populations of people with Covid-19 and discusses the death rates and the reasons why the rate for the disease in the longer term is likely to be less than 1%. There are links to the sources and there is a modicum of numeric data to read.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387?query=recirc_curatedRelated_article
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 07, 2020, 08:26:25 AM
Missed the chance to edit my post above so, here from the New England Journal Of Medicine is a report from China that tracked 1009 cases of Covid-19 to establish how the disease works and what the expected outcomes might be for patients who are treated in hospital.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032

The takeaway headline is that the mortality rate was found to be 1.4%.
So, in the most simple of terms, when the whole population of sufferers is known (1009 people) and they all receive appropriate care, the death rate is 1.4% (15 people died).

The editorial I linked to above makes the sensible point that given the disease has many carriers or infected who show no symptoms, or very mild symptoms which are never reported, the real death rate will be even lower. Hence the insight that the real mortality rate will be even lower than was found in the study above.

The reality is that until some time (several years) have passed we will not have the data to be able to reliably extrapolate the total pool of sufferers in the way we do for influenza, measles and other community diseases.

The obvious question is this: why are we seeing claims of a mortality rate of around 3-4%. The answer is that people were not receiving the treatment they needed. There are all sorts of reasons for that, but we can see that where people get speedy and appropriate care as they did in China once the issue was recognised and resources allocated and in South Korea where the time bought by China made good preparation possible the death rate is much lower than the doom-mongers claim.

The lesson for the USA is that resources need to be made available to enable testing to take place and for sufferers to receive appropriate care. That is not happening at the moment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 09:55:16 AM
From Wikipedia:
Mortality rate, or death rate, is a measure of the number of deaths in a particular population, scaled to the size of that population, per unit of time.
.

Andrew, you're still not learning so I'm going to go back and quote you from another post. Do you understand unit of time? People have to finish their battle with the virus before time is up. Imaging you going around doing mortality rates for 2020 RIGHT NOW and ask people if they lived or died in 2020. They will call you stupid because time is not up. 2020 is not finish. But you conclude your study anyway and claim 2020 mortality rates are low. Later some you have claimed to survive 2020 will die tomorrow, next week, next month or Dec 31, 2020 and the smart guy will wait till the year(unit of time) is up before calculation mortality rates. His rate will be higher than yours. This virus rate will continue to go up because others make the same mistake as you. First it was claim the virus is no deadlier than the flu with death rate a .1%. Then it was claimed the death rate is 2%. Now it's claimed the death rate is 3.4% It will continue to go up because people didn't know what they were doing before and they don't know what they are doing now. For this virus, you must wait till the battle with the virus is over to calculate mortality rates. So use the people that have finished their battle to figure out if they belong in the death or recovered categories.

I'm not sure the media is told what to do but I think this time the governments and health organizations are manipulating the media. The way WHO presented data recently, the media automatically translated that to be 3.4% death rate when that is not true. Also governments and health organizations say there are many undetected cases out there so the death rate should be lower but they aren't telling us there are undetected death cases out there which deaths are incorrectly recorded as pneumonia or influenza which would make death rates go up. The best thing to do is go with the numbers we know.

Below are all 1st world nations with good health care systems, with a minimum of 150 infections reporting I trust. Numbers based off John Hopkins link below.

Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7041                       44                    135
Italy                    4636                      197                   532
Germany               686                         0                     17
France                   653                         9                     12
Japan                    420                          6                     46
Spain                     401                         5                     2
USA                       340                        14                    8
Switzerland            214                         1                      3
UK                         164                         2                     8

Total                    14,555                     278                  763

As you can see from this pool of 14,555 people, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%. Imagine yourself as one of those 13K+ infected and life and death started to sink in. You won't be looking at the reported media mortality rates. You will be looking at the actual death and recovery categories. For every three people who goes into the recovery category, one person goes into the death category. I don't know if those numbers will hold but those numbers are we are dealing with right now after throwing out the low Chinese numbers which account for 80% of the weight when factoring mortality rates.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 07, 2020, 10:08:20 AM
The thick in BillyB grows ever stronger .. re his 'stats ...  :dh:

As for Russia ... it LOOKS that Brits may be 'asked' to self-isolate if arriving in Moscow ?

"Going to Moscow? You may need to self-isolate
If you're planning a trip to Russia - or more specifically, the country's capital - you should probably be aware of this, from our political correspondent Jonathan Blake:

The UK government is warning people travelling to Moscow that they may be asked to self-isolate for 14 days on arrival, due to the coronavirus outbreak.

Updated travel advice says there are reports in Russia, citing official sources, that the UK will be added to a list of countries which already includes China, South Korea, Italy, Iran, France, Germany and Spain - for which special measures apply.

The advice also states that passengers may be asked to sign a document agreeing to self-isolate. It says that in "a small number of cases" foreign visitors have been placed in enforced quarantine if they do not comply."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-51781573
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 07, 2020, 11:52:28 AM
Quote
A man identified as Mr. Wu, who lives opposite the hotel told Chinese news outlet Mnw.cn that he thought the collapse was actually an explosion.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/07/coronavirus-china-hotel-used-quarantine-collapses-70-inside/4985415002/

Going from bad to worse.  A controlled explosion?   Trying to blast away the problem?   :-\
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 07, 2020, 12:32:43 PM
  What does not seemed to get talked about is the coronavirus has mutated into two versions. There is the L version which is the original version which is more lethal and the S version which is the newer version mutation.  At present about 70 of the virus is the original version and 30 per cent it the newer version. One possible out come is the new version will over take the original version because people with it do not get as sick and are less likely to go to a hospital or get medical help. Thus it is aloud to spread more freely. Death rates are hard to determine. First the death rate changes very much by age of the patient. For patient 10 to 20 years of age the rate is nearly zero and for patients over 60 it is very much higher. Patients with precondition problems still higher. So depending on the sample and the strain of the virus you can prove nearly any death rate you want. The cure rate to death rate will not mean much until 100 per cent of the people in a sample area have either gotten well or died. Still this does not take into account the number of people who get well on their own. I have not read anything about infection rates. This is what percentage of the population will even catch this disease. This being overly scared about it is not doing anything to make this less lethal or anything else better.

One of the big fears is think about millions of people staying home and not working. Houses getting repo, cars repo and families under financial stress. Layoff that are permanent from business closing. Many people in the forties and above may never get their lives together again. I am not predicting this but this is a real possible out come.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 07, 2020, 01:44:46 PM
Billy, Billy, Billy - this is stupid. You either did not read the link I provided or didn't understand it.

Please do not project your issues with reading onto me.

If you read the links I shared from the NEJM you will see that the numbers included all cases. They followed through to a conclusion on each person. None of them dropped out of the study.

So, when you do the reading, or your helper reads it for you, you will see that some people died, some people recovered and some are still hospitalised. The ones who are recovering are, well, not to put too fine a point on it, not going to die of Covid-19. The ones who are dead are dead and the ones who recovered - they got better. Time is included here. Since I raised the issue of time you have run with it without understanding the point.

I know that you are being programmed and that programming is easier than learning. I know that your programmers probably have not read this stuff and, as we know, they often have similar issues with numbers as you do - for context see the 'journalists' and commentators who somehow thought that Michale Bloomberg had spent enough on his aborted campaign presidential campaign to give every person in the Land Of The Dim a million dollars. He had actually spent around $500 million worth about $1.5 per capita.

Billy, I know that numbers and words are complex for you, but if you are going to join us in a discussion with participants of normal literacy and with normal cognition please take the effort to handle the material. If you can't be bothered or cannot keep up then either ask questions or stay shtum. There's a good fellow.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 01:58:50 PM
You either did not read the link I provided or didn't understand it.


It was written by Chinese doctors from a Chinese medical group using Chinese government reported numbers of deaths, infections and recoveries. You can believe everything you read but don't get upset if others have a more open mind than you.


Death rates are hard to determine. First the death rate changes very much by age of the patient.


It's hard to determine with a small sample pool but as the numbers come in we can get an idea of what the outcome could be.

Example: 100 people dove into the lake to try and swim across it. 'So far' 20 folks made it across, 10 drowned and died. The current death rate for diving into this lake and trying to swim across is therefore  33.33%. There are 70 more folks trying to swim across. Wouldn't it be 'more' prudent to report a 10% death rate 'to date'?

Ideally, true mortality rate can't be calculated until ALL 100 swimmers FINISH their attempt to cross the lake. With 20 making it across and 10 drowned, that means 70 swimmers fate has yet to be determined. Although we should wait for all 100 swimmers to finish to calculate true mortality rate, we do have idea what the current going rate is and that is 20 swimmers survived the swim and 10 did not. It is wrong to say the current death rate is 10% because then you'd have to assume ALL 70 remaining swimmers will survive for that 10% mortality rate to stand. Most likely when all swimmers are done, the mortality rate will be closer to 33.33% than 10%.

Italy updated their numbers. This morning the numbers were

4636  Infected      197   died    532 recovered  equals a 27% mortality rate

Todays numbers are

5883 Infected        233 died      589 recovered equals a 28.3% mortality rate

Italy's mortality rate has gone up with 36 new deaths and 57 recoveries. Italy has quarantined cities and closed schools. Parts of Italy are becoming a European Wuhan. Anybody here from Italy that can report on this?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2020, 05:13:55 PM

In a matter of weeks Italy and South Korea went from a few infections and deaths to out of control. King County, WA has the symptoms for an explosion like they had but I'm ready for it. I've got cash. I'll approach a couple of soldiers, tell them I'm virus free, and try to bribe my way out so I can go live with Andrew. But when one soldier yells out "It's freezing weather and a drop of sweat just fell from his face! He's got the zombie virus!!!" the other soldier with an itchy trigger finger blows my head off and I fall to the ground. As I raise my hand to signal for help, the soldier empties his clip of remaining 29 rounds into my raised hand and body. As I raise my other hand to signal for help, the rest of the platoon empties their clips into my body. My legs get up and run back home. I get on the computer and report to you guys they are not messing around with the quarantining of people, even the virus free kind like me.

In other news Hotel COVID-19 collapses.  43 out of 70 people have been rescued and local officials report no deaths unless Beijing gives them permission to do so.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/hotel-collapse-traps-70-eastern-china-154017056.html

My local government just bought a really cheap hotel to house the infected. It's the kind of dumpy hotel the local hookers take clients to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 07, 2020, 06:04:52 PM

In a matter of weeks Italy and South Korea went from a few infections and deaths to out of control. King County, WA has the symptoms for an explosion like they had but I'm ready for it. I've got cash. I'll approach a couple of soldiers, tell them I'm virus free, and try to bribe my way out so I can go live with Andrew. But when one soldier yells out "It's freezing weather and a drop of sweat just fell from his face! He's got the zombie virus!!!" the other soldier with an itchy trigger finger blows my head off and I fall to the ground. As I raise my hand to signal for help, the soldier empties his clip of remaining 29 rounds into my raised hand and body. As I raise my other hand to signal for help, the rest of the platoon empties their clips into my body. My legs get up and run back home. I get on the computer and report to you guys they are not messing around with the quarantining of people, even the virus free kind like me.

In other news Hotel COVID-19 collapses.  43 out of 70 people have been rescued and local officials report no deaths unless Beijing gives them permission to do so.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/hotel-collapse-traps-70-eastern-china-154017056.html

My local government just bought a really cheap hotel to house the infected. It's the kind of dumpy hotel the local hookers take clients to.

There’s a dumpy hotel in King County?  :laugh:

That’s a rare thing to be sure. Most of the county is approaching CA real estate prices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 07, 2020, 11:24:04 PM
It’s getting very serious in Italy!


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51787238
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 08, 2020, 05:17:24 AM
You either did not read the link I provided or didn't understand it.


It was written by Chinese doctors from a Chinese medical group using Chinese government reported numbers of deaths, infections and recoveries. You can believe everything you read but don't get upset if others have a more open mind than you.


Death rates are hard to determine. First the death rate changes very much by age of the patient.


It's hard to determine with a small sample pool but as the numbers come in we can get an idea of what the outcome could be.

Example: 100 people dove into the lake to try and swim across it. 'So far' 20 folks made it across, 10 drowned and died. The current death rate for diving into this lake and trying to swim across is therefore  33.33%. There are 70 more folks trying to swim across. Wouldn't it be 'more' prudent to report a 10% death rate 'to date'?

Ideally, true mortality rate can't be calculated until ALL 100 swimmers FINISH their attempt to cross the lake. With 20 making it across and 10 drowned, that means 70 swimmers fate has yet to be determined. Although we should wait for all 100 swimmers to finish to calculate true mortality rate, we do have idea what the current going rate is and that is 20 swimmers survived the swim and 10 did not. It is wrong to say the current death rate is 10% because then you'd have to assume ALL 70 remaining swimmers will survive for that 10% mortality rate to stand. Most likely when all swimmers are done, the mortality rate will be closer to 33.33% than 10%.

Italy updated their numbers. This morning the numbers were

4636  Infected      197   died    532 recovered  equals a 27% mortality rate

Todays numbers are

5883 Infected        233 died      589 recovered equals a 28.3% mortality rate

Italy's mortality rate has gone up with 36 new deaths and 57 recoveries. Italy has quarantined cities and closed schools. Parts of Italy are becoming a European Wuhan. Anybody here from Italy that can report on this?

If you really knew any about math you would understand the errors of your work. If you 100 swimmers and twenty make it to shore and ten drowned that does not say anything about the other seventy. They might all make it, they could all drown or anything in between. On the Diamond Princes 698 people caught the virus, seven died. This is good because everyone was tested so no body caught the virus without it being known. 410 of the passengers that tested positive had no symptoms at all thru the course of the disease.  The disease had nearly run its course with the entire group.  I do not know the age of the other passengers but first three deaths were in their 80's. It is surely worse than any flu but it is not the end of the world as we know it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 08, 2020, 06:59:09 AM
To try and make sense of numbers at this point is a waste of time.
Its moving and growing so fast how could anyone truly understand
real percentages. Unknown of how many cases is like 3 to 4 times the actually number.
How many sick, misdiagnosed or have died and never been tested.

How many countries are not telling the whole true.
I would stick with what is known. Even that is limited at this point.
Basic stuff is limit large crowds, stay as clean as possible.
Control your own environment as much as you can and wait.

Every country in the world is working on a solution.
If you're relatively healthy then less to fear.
Eliminate a as many chances as possible and hold on until
they sort it out.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 08, 2020, 07:29:35 AM
“IT’S LIKE SCENES FROM A MAD MAX MOVIE” – AMERICANS CONTINUE EPIC RUN ON COSTCO
Zero Hedge - March 8, 2020 -

We warned you several years ago that Venezuela was coming to America. Little did we know it would be caused by a virus

https://www.infowars.com/its-like-scenes-from-a-mad-max-movie-americans-continue-epic-run-on-costco/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 08, 2020, 08:11:28 AM
https://www.infowars.com/all-hospital-beds-in-the-us-will-be-filled-with-patients-by-about-may-8th-due-to-coronavirus-analysis/

ALL HOSPITAL BEDS IN THE US WILL BE FILLED WITH PATIENTS ‘BY ABOUT MAY 8TH’ DUE TO CORONAVIRUS: ANALYSIS

The US has about 2.8 hospital beds per 1000 people
Zero Hedge - MARCH 8, 2020

https://www.infowars.com/all-hospital-beds-in-the-us-will-be-filled-with-patients-by-about-may-8th-due-to-coronavirus-analysis/

We can expect that we’ll continue to see a doubling of cases every 6 days (this is a typical doubling time across several epidemiological studies). Here I mean *actual* cases. Confirmed cases may appear to rise faster in the short term due to new test kit rollouts.

We’re looking at about 1M US cases by the end of April, 2M by ~May 5, 4M by ~May 11, and so on. Exponentials are hard to grasp, but this is how they go.

As the healthcare system begins to saturate under this case load, it will become increasingly hard to detect, track, and contain new transmission chains. In absence of extreme interventions, this likely won’t slow significantly until hitting >>1% of susceptible population.

What does a case load of this size mean for healthcare system? We’ll examine just two factors — hospital beds and masks — among many, many other things that will be impacted.

The US has about 2.8 hospital beds per 1000 people. With a population of 330M, this is ~1M beds. At any given time, 65% of those beds are already occupied. That leaves about 330k beds available nationwide (perhaps a bit fewer this time of year with regular flu season, etc).

Let’s trust Italy’s numbers and assume that about 10% of cases are serious enough to require hospitalization. (Keep in mind that for many patients, hospitalization lasts for *weeks* — in other words, turnover will be *very* slow as beds fill with COVID19 patients).

By this estimate, by about May 8th, all open hospital beds in the US will be filled. (This says nothing, of course, about whether these beds are suitable for isolation of patients with a highly infectious virus.)

If we’re wrong by a factor of two regarding the fraction of severe cases, that only changes the timeline of bed saturation by 6 days in either direction. If 20% of cases require hospitalization, we run out of beds by ~May 2nd.

If only 5% of cases require it, we can make it until ~May 14th. 2.5% gets us to May 20th. This, of course, assumes that there is no uptick in demand for beds from *other* (non-COVID19) causes, which seems like a dubious assumption.

As healthcare system becomes increasingly burdened, Rx shortages, etc, people w/ chronic conditions that are normally well-managed may find themselves slipping into severe states of medical distress requiring intensive care & hospitalization. But let’s ignore that for now.
Alright, so that’s beds. Now masks. Feds say we have a national stockpile of 12M N95 masks and 30M surgical masks (which are not ideal, but better than nothing).

There are about 18M healthcare workers in the US. Let’s assume only 6M HCW are working on any given day. (This is likely an underestimate as most people work most days of the week, but again, I’m playing conservative at every turn.)

As COVID19 cases saturate virtually every state and county, which seems likely to happen any day now, it will soon be irresponsible for all HCWs to not wear a mask. These HCWs would burn through N95 stockpile in 2 days if each HCW only got ONE mask per day.

One per day would be neither sanitary nor pragmatic, though this is indeed what we saw in Wuhan, with HCWs collapsing on their shift from dehydration because they were trying to avoid changing their PPE suits as they cannot be reused.
How quickly could we ramp up production of new masks? Not very fast at all. The vast majority are manufactured overseas, almost all in China. Even when manufactured here in US, the raw materials are predominantly from overseas… again, predominantly from China.

Keep in mind that all countries globally will be going through the exact same crises and shortages simultaneously. We can’t force trade in our favor.

Now consider how these 2 factors – bed and mask shortages – compound each other’s severity. Full hospitals + few masks + HCWs running around between beds without proper PPE = very bad mix.

HCWs are already getting infected even w/ access to full PPE. In the face of PPE limitations this severe, it’s only a matter of time. HCWs will start dropping from the workforce for weeks at a time, leading to a shortage of HCWs that then further compounds both issues above.

We could go on and on about thousands of factors – # of ventilators, or even simple things like saline drip bags. You see where this is going.

Importantly, I cannot stress this enough: even if I’m wrong – even VERY wrong – about core assumptions like % of severe cases or current case #, it only changes the timeline by days or weeks. This is how exponential growth in an immunologically naïve population works.

Undeserved panic does no one any good. But neither does ill-informed complacency. It’s wrong to assuage the public by saying “only 2% will die.” People aren’t adequately grasping the national and global systemic burden wrought by this swift-moving of a disease.

I’m an engineer. This is what my mind does all day: I run back-of-the-envelope calculations to try to estimate order-of-magnitude impacts. I’ve been on high alarm about this disease since ~Jan 19 after reading clinical indicators in the first papers emerging from Wuhan.

Nothing in the last 6 weeks has dampened my alarm in the slightest. To the contrary, we’re seeing abject refusal of many countries to adequately respond or prepare. Of course some of these estimates will be wrong, even substantially wrong.

But I have no reason to think they’ll be orders-of-magnitude wrong. Even if your personal risk of death is very, very low, don’t mock decisions like canceling events or closing workplaces as undue “panic”.

These measures are the bare minimum we should be doing to try to shift the peak – to slow the rise in cases so that healthcare systems are less overwhelmed. Each day that we can delay an extra case is a big win for the HC system.

And yes, you really should prepare to buckle down for a bit. All services and supply chains will be impacted. Why risk the stress of being ill-prepared?

Worst case, I’m massively wrong and you now have a huge bag of rice and black beans to burn through over the next few months and enough Robitussin to trip out.

One more thought: you’ve probably seen multiple respected epidemiologists have estimated that 20-70% of world will be infected within the next year. If you use 6-day doubling rate I mentioned above, we land at ~2-6 billion infected by sometime in July of this year.

Obviously I think the doubling time will start to slow once a sizeable fraction of the population has been infected, simply because of herd immunity and a smaller susceptible population.

But take the scenarios above (full beds, no PPE, etc, at just 1% of the US population infected) and stretch them out over just a couple extra months.

That timeline roughly fits with consensus end-game numbers from these highly esteemed epidemiologists. Again, we’re talking about discrepancies of mere days or weeks one direction or another, but not disagreements in the overall magnitude of the challenge.

This is not some hypothetical, fear-mongering, worst-case scenario. This is reality, as far as anyone can tell with the current available data.

That’s all for now. Standard disclaimers apply: I’m a PhD biologist but *not* an epidemiologist. Thoughts my own. Yadda yadda. Stay safe out there. /end

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 08:42:52 AM
If you really knew any about math you would understand the errors of your work.


When I was 16 yo, I took a nationwide test like the rest of the 16 yo's in the nation did and scored in the top 1%. Navy wrote a letter to my parents to ask permission to talk to me about becoming an officer in their nuke program. My math is fine and I'm even wiser now. I don't expect people to understand things like I do.

If you 100 swimmers and twenty make it to shore and ten drowned that does not say anything about the other seventy. They might all make it, they could all drown or anything in between.


When 30 swimmers finished their task or died, you have a big enough sample pool to start understanding things which give you an ideas how the rest of the 70 swimmers will end up. As governments begin to understand things, they can take appropriate action. So far in a few months 10% of the world's population has experienced a quarantine. Just because you haven't been quarantined yet doesn't mean the virus is harmless.

On the Diamond Princes 698 people caught the virus, seven died. This is good because everyone was tested so no body caught the virus without it being known. 410 of the passengers that tested positive had no symptoms at all thru the course of the disease.  The disease had nearly run its course with the entire group. I do not know the age of the other passengers but first three deaths were in their 80's. It is surely worse than any flu but it is not the end of the world as we know it.

Where did you read 410 passengers that were infected and are now recovered? John Hopkins collects all data and updates throughout the day as more reports come in. So far John Hopkins reports 6 passengers died and 40 recovered. Go to the link below, left column where the countries are and click "other" for the Diamond Princess.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

To try and make sense of numbers at this point is a waste of time.


Should governments ignore the numbers right now and take no action? Even with China's manipulated numbers and low death rate, nations have shut borders with them. This virus is much more deadlier and uncontrollable than the flu based on the numbers we have that includes China's manipulation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 08, 2020, 09:22:02 AM
10 % of 8 billion people ??  :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 09:57:49 AM
10 % of 8 billion people ??  :D

China has at least 500 million people under full or partial lockdown which is over 35% of their people and that is what they report. Could be more. Draconian measures were taken to stop the spread of the virus. Our governments may need to take control the same way eventually. Entire nation of North Korea is under lockdown. Italy locked down is up to 16 million based on latest figures. A number of cruise ships have been locked down. Saudi Arabia locked down a region. I'm sure Iran has millions locked down or restricted the movements of people. South Korea has locked down some buildings. Over 100k infected individuals have been locked down. People who feel ill but not knowing what made them sick, did a self imposed lock down in their own homes which is a smart thing to do. Schools and businesses told people to go home. The virus has affected my family since my wife's college cancelled classes for the rest of the quarter. This virus is going to affect our lives and behavior for as long as it continues to exist. China experienced 4 months of this virus and the world experienced it for a couple months now and it's easily affected over a billion people to some extent.

https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-LOCKDOWN/0100B5EF3LJ/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 08, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
It’s getting very serious in Italy!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51787238


Yes, they insist on touching each other face on face when they meet.

Perhaps, it was the reason why Roman Empire disappeared.  They suffered from severe smallpox in the 6th century. 1/3 of population of Rome were gone in about 2 years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 08, 2020, 10:13:59 AM
Quote
A man identified as Mr. Wu, who lives opposite the hotel told Chinese news outlet Mnw.cn that he thought the collapse was actually an explosion.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/07/coronavirus-china-hotel-used-quarantine-collapses-70-inside/4985415002/

Going from bad to worse.  A controlled explosion?   Trying to blast away the problem?   :-\


No, it is misunderstood during translation.  The man reported that it sounded like explosion to him.
Here is the original Chinese news.
http://www.mnw.cn/quanzhou/news/2258588.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 08, 2020, 10:19:48 AM
Another "must see" video from China insider.  Another brave Man challenged ChiNazi's evil tyrant.

From 0:00 to 1:08; with English subtitle
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 08, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Entire nation of North Korea is under lockdown.

The virus has affected my family since my wife's college cancelled classes for the rest of the quarter. This virus is going to affect our lives and behavior for as long as it.


Yes, the whole world is very connected nowadays.

I heard that North Korea allows their troops to shoot people who intrude North Korea from China side.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 10:56:13 AM

Below are all 1st world nations with good health care systems, with a minimum of 150 infections reporting I trust. Numbers based off John Hopkins link below.

Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7041                       44                    135
Italy                    4636                      197                   532
Germany               686                         0                     17
France                   653                         9                     12
Japan                    420                          6                     46
Spain                     401                         5                     2
USA                       340                        14                    8
Switzerland            214                         1                      3
UK                         164                         2                     8

Total                    14,555                     278                  763

As you can see from this pool of 14,555 people, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%. Imagine yourself as one of those 13K+ infected and life and death started to sink in. You won't be looking at the reported media mortality rates. You will be looking at the actual death and recovery categories. For every three people who goes into the recovery category, one person goes into the death category. I don't know if those numbers will hold but those numbers are we are dealing with right now after throwing out the low Chinese numbers which account for 80% of the weight when factoring mortality rates.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

I did this exercise yesterday and I'll do it today to see what difference a day makes. I won't do it everyday but anybody can go to the John Hopkins to see the daily changes. A couple of things I notice is Germany doesn't like to report the death and recovery rates. Maybe they're slow and will report later. Also, deaths in South Korea went up and recoveries went down. They may have decided previous recoveries were recoveries from another illness, not the coronavirus. Here are the new tallies for 1st world nations with over 150 confirmed infections that I think are trustworthy and have high quality health care systems.


Country       Total Infections        Deaths        Total Recovered

South Korea         7314                       50                    118
Italy                    5883                      233                    589
Germany              1018                         0                     18
France                   949                         11                    12
Japan                    502                          6                     76
Spain                     613                         17                    30
USA                       466                        19                     8
Switzerland            332                         2                      3
UK                         273                         2                      18
Netherlands            265                         3                      0
Sweden                  203                         0                      0
Belgium                  169                         0                      1
Norway                   157                         0                      0

Total                    18,144                     343                  903

Yesterdays numbers were 14,555 people infected, 1041 finished their fight and 278 died for a mortality rate of 26.7%.

Todays numbers are 18,144 infected, 1246 finished their fight with the virus and 343 died for a mortality rate of 27.5%. The mortality rate went up because there was 55 dead to 140 recoveries reported for the day. Poor odds for the tens of thousands who are currently infected and will someday be placed in one of those two categories.

The good news is official reports will keep numbers low so we don't panic. They will use Chinese reports which account for 80% of the weight into the equation which brings mortality rate down. They will factor in all those infected(still swimming for their life) into the recovery category to bring mortality rates down but we know the truth is many of those infected who are not finished with the battle with the virus will be thrown into the dead category eventually. As more numbers come in, they won't be able to manipulate the death rate easily, especially if someday the pool of infected becomes smaller and the dead and recovery pool becomes bigger. Evidence of that is the early reports of a .1% mortality rate became 2% and now 3.4% is the lastest being claimed. As more reports come in, it'll be harder for them to manipulate and mortality rates will go up but you'll never get the truth. If you want the truth, stick to the numbers reliable nations are reporting. Figure nations with poor health care systems having higher rates of death which we are not seeing right now and will probably never see.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 11:59:28 AM
Italy has now reported a huge jump in numbers. They have 366 deaths to 622 recoveries. South Korea has 50 deaths to 118 recoveries. Those two trustworthy nations with large sample pools combine for 416 deaths to 740 recoveries which equal 36% mortality rate. For every 2 recoveries recorded, another person is recorded dead. I don't like the reports from those nations but it is what it is.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Nations, including allies, are getting angry at each other. Finger pointing is starting to happen. If any of you are thinking of coming to my house to steal my Top Ramen noodles and canned chili, I've got guns.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/governments-point-fingers-over-coronavirus-as-death-toll-mounts/ar-BB10QVhB?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 08, 2020, 02:04:07 PM
STILL persisting in demonstrating  why you aren't in any official capacity re publishing mortality rates, BillyB ?...


THIS is a preferable place to read up on numbers ..

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports)



I've just read that TWATS are selling anti-bact hand soap on ebay for 10 times it's normal value .. :'(


Online grocery shopping has gone through the roof as I can normally go online in the evening and get suff next day .. now a three day wait


Too many doom merchants on the loose
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 08, 2020, 05:07:10 PM
I've just read that TWATS are selling anti-bact hand soap on ebay for 10 times it's normal value .. :'(

Not twats. You are showing us here your Socialism. These are opportunists feeding on buyer stupidity. We call this capitalism. Anybody can offer anything they like for sale at any price they choose. Buyers make a choice.

Online grocery shopping has gone through the roof as I can normally go online in the evening and get suff next day .. now a three day wait

Same here, our Ocado is Tuesday. But meanwhile we went to Morrisons and Tesco.

Ongoing, online shopping will be more popular until the virus fades away. The supermarkets and supply chains will catch up.

If you are a handgel manufacturer now, you will probably pay your mortgage off in the next couple of months. some people will do very well from this. And good luck to them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 05:28:51 PM
STILL persisting in demonstrating  why you aren't in any official capacity re publishing mortality rates, BillyB ?...

THIS is a preferable place to read up on numbers ..

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports)


I don't see anything in the link where WHO makes a statement on mortality rate. They can see what's happening and report numbers. Smart people understand numbers. It's best WHO keep their mouth shut about the truth. It's best Trump and governments around the world lie, put out low mortality rates, and tell everybody "It's going to be alright".

Even if a person's immunity system beats the virus, can they claim victory? Even if a person beats the virus, they can get it again and again and again because there is no cure. CDC says the average adult gets two to three colds a year. It doesn't feel like we get that much because the symptoms may not be noticeable but next time we get the cold it can be severe. COVID-19 is a cold virus on steroids but much more dangerous than the flu. A person may not experience any symptoms and beat it the first time they get it but next time they get it could be worse and kill them.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/rhinoviruses/index.html

If CDC estimates of how many colds we get per year are true, then people our age have experienced over 100 colds in our lifetimes and obviously beat them all since we are on this forum. If we get COVID-19 100 times in our life, we'd be dead before we get to 100. If COVID even has a 10% mortality rate and every person on earth gets it once, the first wave of the virus will kill 780 million people. The rest will survive and when the antibodies in those survivors disappear in a few months, they can acquire COVID-19 again, the same way we can acquire another cold again. Humanity can live with wave after wave of colds and flus since colds are harmless and there are vaccines for flus. We will be devastated if we have to live with wave after wave of COVID-19 unless a cure is found or it's eradicated from the human body. Governments are giving people hope they are racing to find a cure. They haven't found a cure for the common cold after 100 years of trying so I'm not optimistic. Containment through quarantine is our only hope to slow it down and hopefully stop the spread. If it gets out of our control, humanity will have to live with it forever.

Although this virus has been around a few months, around 10% of the world's population has experience a full or partial lockdown. Easily over a billion people's lives have been affected by this virus. Maybe school was cancelled, a concert was cancel, loss of work due to company shutting down and less orders for the company, canceled trips, self imposed quarantine or mandatory government quarantine are what many already experienced. THESE RECENT EVENTS BY GOVERNMENTS IN A SHORT TIME SHOULD TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT THE VIRUS. I don't think most people understand how dangerous this virus is and the magnitude of the situation but it's a good thing Trump, health organizations, and other governments continue to lie and downplay what is happening.

Anybody can offer anything they like for sale at any price they choose. Buyers make a choice.
 

Ebay sent me notice Feb 28 that they will prohibit the inflated price of certain products to fight the virus. Masks, hand sanitizer, etc... Mar 5 they sent the message below.

Due to regulatory restrictions across the United States, we have chosen to ban certain items listed on our site.   

Effective immediately, eBay will block new listings and start to remove listings that sell:

Masks including N95/N100 and surgical masks
Hand Sanitizer/Gel
Disinfecting Wipes
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 08, 2020, 07:25:03 PM
Billy you are reaching to a level of misunderstanding that is going way off the deep end. First there are many billions of virus and they mutate all the time to create new ones. The flu every year is a new virus so every year they need to develop a new flu shot to control the new virus. When you catch a hundred colds you catch a hundred different types of virus. Once you have the anti bodies in your body for a certain virus you can not get that virus for  many years.

It is believed that for every reported case of the Coronavirus there are at least two unreported cases and I am thinking the number is much higher. Three weeks ago an man got on the Grand Princess cruise ship before there were any "cases" in California. Several days into the trip he went to the ship doctors and he had the coronavirus which was likely a community caught disease before he got on the ship. So the disease has been in California un controlled for weeks. Two screeners at LAX now have the coronavirus which is thought to have been caught from incoming passengers but no one know which passengers or where they are. I have a friend that is a nurse in Arizona and at her hospital already had the first patient show up they think is Coronavirus. But they did not have any test kits so they sent the patient home to self quarantine. How many other people in the community likely have this. I bet there are many more examples of this I just do not know about. Any chance to contain the disease would of had to of happen by closing down all borders by the end of January. So it is pretty much for sure that most people with this virus are not going to doctors and getting tested. Billy if you do not want to get this just stay home for the next three months or so. It is already in the unknown numbers of communities and there are a chance you will catch it every time you or any of your family walk out the door.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 08:16:21 PM
First there are many billions of virus and they mutate all the time to create new ones.


There's only one virus with two strains that got 10% of the world locked down in a matter of months. There's a huge difference between this virus and the billions you're talking about. This new virus is a beast. THEY tell you it's not much more dangerous than the flu but THEY aren't acting like it's nothing to be alarmed about. Don't look at what THEY say. Look at what THEY do. In a matter of weeks, Italy locked down over 25% of their people. At least three nations have taken draconian measures on their people to combat the virus. We in America may eventually have to experience hardships too.

Once you have the anti bodies in your body for a certain virus you can not get that virus for  many years.


Antibodies can last for years but they diminish over time like the vaccines you get against the flu. You may get a cold but after that antibody count starts to slowly go down and you may get the same cold again 4 months later since the antibody count was reduced from the required level necessary to beat a cold. Also antibodies to beat one type of virus may not be effected against another type of virus. COVID-19 has already evolved into two strains.







Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 08, 2020, 08:54:05 PM
First there are many billions of virus and they mutate all the time to create new ones.


There's only one virus with two strains that got 10% of the world locked down in a matter of months. There's a huge difference between this virus and the billions you're talking about. This new virus is a beast. THEY tell you it's not much more dangerous than the flu but THEY aren't acting like it's nothing to be alarmed about. Don't look at what THEY say. Look at what THEY do. In a matter of weeks, Italy locked down over 25% of their people. At least three nations have taken draconian measures on their people to combat the virus. We in America may eventually have to experience hardships too.

Once you have the anti bodies in your body for a certain virus you can not get that virus for  many years.


Antibodies can last for years but they diminish over time like the vaccines you get against the flu. You may get a cold but after that antibody count starts to slowly go down and you may get the same cold again 4 months later since the antibody count was reduced from the required level necessary to beat a cold. Also antibodies to beat one type of virus may not be effected against another type of virus. COVID-19 has already evolved into two strains.

My concern is the elderly that are killed by this virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 08, 2020, 09:05:56 PM
Yes but the two strains are close enough that you are likely immune to both. That is one type of vaccine. That is give you a mild case of the disease so that you become immune harsher disease. It looks like mother nature maybe providing us with a vaccine faster than governments seem to want to work. There are two vaccine waiting testing but the governments seem to want to spend a year testing them. This summer there will likely be cure for it but still the government will likely want to spend a year testing it also. Every year we make a flu vaccine  that is tested for a couple of months but here we need to test this for a year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 08, 2020, 09:23:12 PM


Not twats. You are showing us here your Socialism. These are opportunists feeding on buyer stupidity. We call this capitalism. Anybody can offer anything they like for sale at any price they choose. Buyers make a choice.

Hmm, You had better share your viewpoint with any mates you might still have left in govt. ...on reading this drivel of yours .. they are asking folks NOT to act in the way you support ..


Luckily, ebay have woken up to this profiteering ..  You seem to be supporting the actions of Spivs   "n the United Kingdom, the word spiv is slang for a type of petty criminal who deals in illicit, typically black market, goods. The word was particularly used during the Second World War and in the post-war period when many goods were rationed due to shortages." source Wiki








Online grocery shopping has gone through the roof as I can normally go online in the evening and get suff next day .. now a three day wait



Same here, our Ocado is Tuesday. But meanwhile we went to Morrisons and Tesco.

Ongoing, online shopping will be more popular until the virus fades away. The supermarkets and supply chains will catch up.

If you are a handgel manufacturer now, you will probably pay your mortgage off in the next couple of months. some people will do very well from this. And good luck to them.


Or, you can just wash your hands with soap an water ... JUST as effective..

 :popcorn:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 09:30:57 PM
Yes but the two strains are close enough that you are likely immune to both. That is one type of vaccine. That is give you a mild case of the disease so that you become immune harsher disease. It looks like mother nature maybe providing us with a vaccine faster than governments seem to want to work. There are two vaccine waiting testing but the governments seem to want to spend a year testing them. This summer there will likely be cure for it but still the government will likely want to spend a year testing it also. Every year we make a flu vaccine  that is tested for a couple of months but here we need to test this for a year.

Viruses mutate and if it's a flu virus, the vaccine most likely will be different than the year before to combat the new strain. Cold viruses mutate too and there are no vaccines for cold viruses. CDC says adults get 2-3 colds a year. A 50 yo person would have experienced 100-150 colds in their lifetime. Since there is no cure, our bodies get rid of cold viruses with antibodies we produce naturally. After the cold virus is defeated, our bodies quit making antibodies, the antibodies begin to diminish and after a few month, we can catch a cold again since there's not enough antibodies to stop the cold dead in it's tracks. That's why we get 2-3 colds a year. For over a 100 years humans have been trying to make a vaccine for cold viruses with no success. There's a lot of stories out there saying a cure may have been discovered for COVID-19 which is related to the cold virus. It's all lies but it gives us comfort to know they're working on it so we don't panic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 08, 2020, 10:07:52 PM
Are you panicking, BillyB ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 08, 2020, 11:00:36 PM
Texan77, you may be interested in this article since it relates to the behavior of COVID-19. Wuhan hospitals released some patients after they made a full recovery after being infected. Since there's no cure, it's obvious their own antibodies beat the virus. Soon after they were released, they were infected again.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051966/coronavirus-wuhan-quarantine-all-cured-patients-14-days-after

Since there are no more college classes, my wife looked at all the very cheap vacation packages and told me about them 10 minutes ago. She is being tempted by the travel industry. She told me hotels and flights are cheap and put her phone in my face so I could get a good look at it. If my county wasn't about to explode with infections, I probably be going on vacation before we enter an era where it's impossible to go on vacation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 08, 2020, 11:34:24 PM
What happened in North Korea. Just an interesting read. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51796776

I just got back from Ukraine on the 5th March. I tried to make the trip before the virus got bad. Personally I am not going any place now. The idea of being in quarantine for a couple of months does not sound like fun. When I got off the plane in Kiev on the 27th of February all the airport people were wearing masks. Each passenger was checked to see if they had a temperature. I am glade I am not able to tell you what would happened if I had one. When I got off the plane Atlanta GA in the USA, I was questioned a couple of times where I had been. My passport was check to see what visas I had.  I do not know what would happened if I was someplace where there was an outbreak. I do not advise any foreign travel or any cruise ships at this time. If I had tickets to go someplace I would not show and just lose the money.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 09, 2020, 04:27:24 AM
Well, if you've flown from the UK to Moscow - you must sell-isolate... but you could still fly to  Piter and take an internal flight ...?

https://www.interfax.ru/moscow/698070




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 09, 2020, 05:13:38 AM
Saudi Arabia declared war on Russia because Russia would not agree to production cuts. So oil is now 30 dollars a barrel instead of fifty. Meanwhile oil demand is dropping like a rock because of the virus. This may not go away quickly. China still has not reached maximum number of cases yet after three month but are hopeful they will in two weeks. Well that is what they said two weeks ago. The 500 cases of corona virus on Sunday in the USA is expected to double and reach a thousand by Tuesday and continue to climb quickly there after. China's GDP is expected to lose 2 per cent this quarter. They saying they expect to be back in production second quarter but the rest of the world is not likely want to buy much because of the virus they are having to deal with. Enjoy your low cost housing as it may last a few months. Maybe you want to pay off a little on your mortgage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 09, 2020, 05:56:37 AM
Saudi Arabia declared war on Russia because Russia would not agree to production cuts. So oil is now 30 dollars a barrel instead of fifty. Meanwhile oil demand is dropping like a rock because of the virus. This may not go away quickly. China still has not reached maximum number of cases yet after three month but are hopeful they will in two weeks. Well that is what they said two weeks ago. The 500 cases of corona virus on Sunday in the USA is expected to double and reach a thousand by Tuesday and continue to climb quickly there after. China's GDP is expected to lose 2 per cent this quarter. They saying they expect to be back in production second quarter but the rest of the world is not likely want to buy much because of the virus they are having to deal with. Enjoy your low cost housing as it may last a few months. Maybe you want to pay off a little on your mortgage.

Maybe you want to pay off a little on your mortgage.. I only have a three year mortgage I try to be completely bullet proof for every possible situation ..so going spend the extra cash on some thing else..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2020, 06:06:08 AM
As we know, in some rare cares either reinfection takes place or the infected are declared clear too early. We also know that the human body creates effective immunity to Covid-19 because the Chinese have been using transfers from people who previously had Covid-19 to new sufferers with positive results.

Reinfection is clearly not an important issue in the overall scheme of things. But yes, it is another excuse for poor USAians to buy more toilet paper!

As can be seen from the article Billy linked to, but clearly did not understand, the issue is not reinfection, but that some patients were released from care too soon. As a result, all patients released from hospital care now go into home quarantine for 14 days.

Why not get concerned about the underwhelming action of the government to reduce the spread of the virus within the USA? That's what will make a difference to you lot over there - it is probably too late already, but working on delay and mitigation will still help you all. :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 09, 2020, 07:39:51 AM
Europe with over 4,000 cases now and expected to be in the ten thousands soon does not seem to be doing much better than USA. As far as I can tell EU and USA are both toast. I did not get elected to any offices and last I check the government was not interest in what I thought. Besides I do not know how to control this only what is being done is not working. If we would of closed all borders at the end of January we could of slowed the disease down a little but not likely we could of stopped it. It appears the economic fall out is going to be huge and last at least a few months if not longer.  ( Maybe much longer )
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2020, 08:10:14 AM
Texan77, there's the problem with you not being in possession of the relevant information.

The USA has been testing about 1 person in a million. Much lower than most of Western Europe and Korea. As a result fewer infections are detected. Its kinda like covering one's eyes and saying there's no cars coming as one walks across a busy road.

We don't know how many cases exist in the USA, but we can be sure that there are many more than you lot know about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 09, 2020, 08:30:29 AM
Please excuse our resident expert in nothing ..

British people are also emptying the shelves of toilet rolls, too ..

Whilst I admit poking fun at our cousins across the pond - I'm aware that a serially single ( somewhat obese)  Brit - is hardly the chap to be 'mocking' ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 09:17:59 AM
If we would of closed all borders at the end of January we could of slowed the disease down a little but not likely we could of stopped it. It appears the economic fall out is going to be huge and last at least a few months if not longer.  ( Maybe much longer )

It would have been nice if China done the world a favor and quarantined Wuhan back in December or earlier when the first case was discovered and notified WHO who in turn will notify all nations we got a new bug on the block so take appropriate action.

Americans, Europeans and Asians from some nations are on the sh!t list so be aware of that when you travel to Moscow.

https://www.vaxbeforetravel.com/russian-travel-restrictions-include-american-visitors

As can be seen from the article Billy linked to, but clearly did not understand, the issue is not reinfection, but that some patients were released from care too soon. As a result, all patients released from hospital care now go into home quarantine for 14 days.


Where in the article it said reinfection is not the issue or people can't get reinfected? Making stuff up again Andrew? It's suspected the Chinese lab tests failed and later they discovered the patient they sent home still had the virus but that is only suspected, not fact. If they passed a lab test with reduced levels of the virus but later tested positive after 9 days with elevated levels of the virus, that's just as bad a news as reinfection because it'll mean their antibodies aren't winning the battle with the virus.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 09, 2020, 11:18:03 AM
Texan77, there's the problem with you not being in possession of the relevant information.

The USA has been testing about 1 person in a million. Much lower than most of Western Europe and Korea. As a result fewer infections are detected. Its kinda like covering one's eyes and saying there's no cars coming as one walks across a busy road.

We don't know how many cases exist in the USA, but we can be sure that there are many more than you lot know about.

Andrew, not entirely sure where you are coming up with your facts (or opinions). Speaking of a small state Connecticut there has been one confirmed case, plus there are three other possibles presently. In the four noted the path of infection is clear and walls have been drawn to attempt stopping further spread. The state has tested until this week, from the start of the year, some 10,000 people. That will now jump to 10,000 tests per week and again increase next week. I would not be surprised if with in 14 days over 10,000,000 tests are conducted across the country.

Most after school activities (sports/drama/music and such) are presently cancelled. Schools are planning to go to live on line classes where possible.

Like China I am sadly confident there are more cases than we are aware of. But the authorities here are transparent while attempting not to creat fear and panic. Plans are being considered to mitigate or close public transport, but this will become a logistical nightmare creating another set of fatalities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2020, 11:32:10 AM
Read it and weep AvHdB!
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/
Remember I usually write/speak from knowledge - I neither invent stuff or carry uninformed opinions.

The situation in the USA is so bad that the CDC ceased publishing the relevant data on March 2nd.

There may well be unofficial testing but unless coordinated by an organisation such as the CDC its value is much, much lower.

Hopefully, testing will increase now that the CDC finally has testing kits and it is no longer necessary to send all test kits back to Atlanta for processing. Even if this is happening it is much, much later than other countries.

It is worth clicking through to the primary data sources linked from the secondary source I shared to get an appreciation of the way that other governments are coping with the issue and also to see how the disease is progressing - particularly in resepct of mortality. Most useful here is the SOuth Korean data due to the vast amount of testing they have carried out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 09, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Read it and weep AvHdB!
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/
Remember I usually write/speak from knowledge - I neither invent stuff or carry uninformed opinions.

The situation in the USA is so bad that the CDC ceased publishing the relevant data on March 2nd.

There may well be unofficial testing but unless coordinated by an organisation such as the CDC its value is much, much lower.

Hopefully, testing will increase now that the CDC finally has testing kits and it is no longer necessary to send all test kits back to Atlanta for processing. Even if this is happening it is much, much later than other countries.

It is worth clicking through to the primary data sources linked from the secondary source I shared to get an appreciation of the way that other governments are coping with the issue and also to see how the disease is progressing - particularly in resepct of mortality. Most useful here is the SOuth Korean data due to the vast amount of testing they have carried out.

Yes Andrew, I suspect most of us understand the challenges you face. You seem to get so wrapped in one set of data that you refuse to look at a bigger picture. Andrew I can only speak of tests conducted in Connecticut by a recognized facility and the total is just shy of some 10,000 this year. There are now three facilities from one with more coming 'on line' here. I suspect the data you have noted is only regarding what was tested in Atlanta by the CDC.

The issue is that initially, the tests kits were faulty and a second batch also did not function as planned. At best bad planning at worst incompetent.

It is interesting to see the mortality rates noted are much closer to the higher percentage that Billy has noted.

Oh and Andrew to further help your education FORD does not stand for Found On Road Dead.   tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 11:54:18 AM
Test kits to test for specifically COVID-19 isn't the only way to test for it. Swab the inside of the mouth of a person and send the culture to the lab. The lab will identify what is causing the illness. If the lab doesn't recognize virus being anything they've ever seen before, consider it COVID-19.

If China did the right thing quarantining Wuhan last year and notifying WHO of a new dangerous virus right away so WHO can tell all nations to develop proper test kits, we wouldn't be where we are at now.

The issue is that initially, the tests kits were faulty and a second batch also did not function as planned. At best bad planning at worst incompetent.


The American government was on this and wasn't late with action. The manufacture of the test kits screwed up. Humans make mistakes but some people are trying really hard to blame Trump.

Italy just reported their numbers. Yesterday they had recorded totals of 366 deaths to 622 recoveries. Today's totals are 463 deaths to 724 recoveries which means they added 97 new dead and 102 new recoveries. They had a very bad day with the mortality rate getting worse, not better. France, Spain, and the USA are all currently experiencing worse mortality rates than Italy.

http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
AvHdB, if by 'one set of data' you mean recognising an objective set of data collected by reputable sources and presented even-handedly, then, yes, guilty! If you wish to suggest that those national sources are lying then please share your evidence in support of your opinion.

OK, let us, for a second, imagine that the tests you refer to are conducted under the auspices of the CDC (they aren't) How many tests do you think would need to be taken across the USA to bring the USA up to the level of South Korea?

You can do the maths yourself, it isn't hard. It is entirely obvious that the USA is well behind the curve on this. Every day that testing is not carried out is another day when cases are going unidentified.
At this time, there is, in the United States, no national policy of provision of testing at no cost to the public. This means people will not be tested unless they end up in a hospital (possibly) or they die.

Here's a sensible report into the issues: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/6/21168087/cdc-coronavirus-test-kits-covid-19

The Atlantic has surveyed all 50 states to find out the level of testing: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-have-been-tested-coronavirus/607597/

Oh, there was a test kit available that has proven reliable and was available to the United States - from the WHO. The CDC and the US government refused to use it. It might be that the manufacturers screwed up, contributing to the issue, but the sensible choice would've been to use the WHO kit even if it was later supplanted by the homegrown version.

Data trumps fantasy - always (except when reading fantasy fiction)


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 09, 2020, 12:04:20 PM

Remember I usually write/speak from knowledge - I neither invent stuff or carry uninformed opinions.

QUOTE of the millennium .. :coffeeread:

How's the 'Rouble Recovery' ( you've had since 2014) .. coming on ..?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 09, 2020, 12:14:01 PM
AvHdB, if by 'one set of data' you mean recognising an objective set of data collected by reputable sources and presented even-handedly, then, yes, guilty!

OK, let us, for a second, imagine that the tests you refer to are conducted under the auspices of the CDC (it would seem not at the moment) How many tests do you think would need to be taken across the USA to bring the USA up to the level of South Korea?

You can do the maths yourself, it isn't hard. It is entirely obvious that the USA is well behind the curve on this. Every day that testing is not carried out is another day when cases are going unidentified.

Andrew, lets be clear, the United States is further behind than the level of South Korea. Good we agree.

I suspect this month the United States because of its physical size and powers of economies will catch up and pass other countries efforts. An exception being China because of the stage the infection is in there. 


At this time, there is, in the United States, no national policy of provision of testing at no cost to the public. This means people will not be tested unless they end up in a hospital (possibly) or they die.

Here's a sensible report into the issues: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/6/21168087/cdc-coronavirus-test-kits-covid-19

The Atlantic has surveyed all 50 states to find out the level of testing: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-have-been-tested-coronavirus/607597/

The United States government passed last week a spending bill to cover the costs (including testing.) If there are no clear indications of possible infection by Covid 19 why spend the resources? But where there is no insurance applicable Uncle Sam will cover the costs. If you are worried feel free to play Uncle Andrew.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2020, 12:17:19 PM
How's the 'Rouble Recovery' ( you've had since 2014) .. coming on ..?

It went quite well if you look at the five year graph posted on the Rouble topic. Now hush, adults are talking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 09, 2020, 12:24:20 PM

Remember I usually write/speak from knowledge - I neither invent stuff or carry uninformed opinions.

QUOTE of the millennium .. :coffeeread:

How's the 'Rouble Recovery' ( you've had since 2014) .. coming on ..?

Is it going as well as your fake Russian business visa's ? ;D  Are you still making them ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2020, 01:10:39 PM
Yes, it has worked out fine. ;)
Also, the XR has followed Russian policy choices. Mystic, along with many other poorly informed people imagines that a 'high' value for a currency is universally good. As with anything else, the price of a good is set to meet the objectives of the good's owner with cognisance of the realities of the market.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 09, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Saudi Arabia declared war on Russia because Russia would not agree to production cuts. So oil is now 30 dollars a barrel instead of fifty. Meanwhile oil demand is dropping like a rock because of the virus. This may not go away quickly. China still has not reached maximum number of cases yet after three month but are hopeful they will in two weeks. Well that is what they said two weeks ago. The 500 cases of corona virus on Sunday in the USA is expected to double and reach a thousand by Tuesday and continue to climb quickly there after. China's GDP is expected to lose 2 per cent this quarter. They saying they expect to be back in production second quarter but the rest of the world is not likely want to buy much because of the virus they are having to deal with. Enjoy your low cost housing as it may last a few months. Maybe you want to pay off a little on your mortgage.

Maybe you want to pay off a little on your mortgage.. I only have a three year mortgage I try to be completely bullet proof for every possible situation ..so going spend the extra cash on some thing else..

Do you realize that Saddam invaded Kuwait when oil prices dropped to below $17 USD and demanded that they go up or it would bankrupt his country (which just ended a war with Iran)?  Bankruptcy is a major factor in regime change.  It resulted in the Persian Gulf war of 1991.   :GRRRR: >:( :evilgrin0002: :fighting0025: :money:

P.S.  My mortgage was paid off in 2008.   :thumbsup: :king:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 09, 2020, 03:44:35 PM


It went quite well if you look at the five year graph posted on the Rouble topic. Now hush, adults are talking.

'Sure' it did ..

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-RUB (https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-RUB)

Is it 'adult' to pretend a serial fail re predictions is busted by this graph ?

Then we can deal with 'alfonso' and who supports who or how Oligarchs got started or how to get a UK biz visa or who's in biz with who .. !

As andrewfi says.. "data trumps fantasy" ..  clearly he hasn't been dosing up on his own meds ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 09, 2020, 03:45:29 PM
Quote
**PLEASE NOTE: VIDEO CONTAINS IMAGES WHICH SOME MAY FIND DISTRESSING**

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rare-look-inside-italian-hospitals-122859582.html

Video of an ICU in Italy treating patients.  I've been in ICUs where respirators were deployed.  The constant alarms going off as readings went out of range.  Workers in the ICU area often "take their time" to find out what is going wrong with the patient.  My recommendation :  Don't get ill under any circumstances.  Because you may not live to regret it.   (:)

Quote
“And there’s essentially no immunity against this virus in the population, because it’s a new virus,” she said.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cdc-says-risk-dying-coronavirus-200053026.html

In Biology, there is infinite variety and infinite diversity.  As you go one step forward, you fall two steps behind.   :duh: :bow:

Quote
“It happened so quick,”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-new-jersey-us-test-positive-symptoms-trump-a9388716.html

Just because you are not a senior citizen, don't think you are "off the hook".   :( ??? :duh: :-\

Quote
He testified on Capitol Hill it was “like the angel of death for older individuals”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-cdc-1918-flu-pandemic-death-toll-symptoms-a9389171.html 

 :saint: :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2020, 03:46:51 PM
Avhdb, if the USG is now committed to covering the costs of testing and care for sufferers of Covid-19 then that's a big step forward. The Chinese took this step very early on and it had a big effect on the ability of the healthcare system to deal with the spread of the disease.

As for your other point about why test. Testing is done on an individual basis in order that the infected can receive appropriate care and so that people with some similar symptomd, but who are not infected do not take up Covid-19 care resources.
On a larger scale, testing of populations gives information about the rate of spread, patterns of spread, and numbers of infected. This information enables the deployment of resources in appropriate areas and at appropriate scale. The same information enables planners to implement public health measures only in areas required do that the entire country will not end up under restrictive quarantine measures.

The delays that have already happened will make the overall task harder and more expensive. The resources will have to be expended, but timely research would have enabled the money and human costs to have been lowered.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 04:25:32 PM

I spoke to a friend of mine who once worked as a nurse and then a security guard for a hospital. Sometimes he'll run drills teaching medical personnel how to handle a biological, chemical, and nuclear situation within a hospital. He knows how dangerous this new virus is and I asked him if he thought the government is doing the right thing by downplaying it. He believes they are doing the right thing. He said there's a universal answer that works regardless if it's a person with a few days to live or a catastrophe that will kill a lot of people. When asked about a dire situation, the answer should always be "Everything is going to be alright".

The whole nation of Italy with 60+ million people will now be locked down. Tens of millions of people on earth are getting locked down on a daily basis but there's no reason to panic so please remain calm and carry on. Everything is going to be alright.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/stocks-oil-prices-plunge-virus-085203396.html

Live coverage with VP Pence and Trump just happened. They've announced aid for individuals who lost their job and companies hurt due to the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 09, 2020, 04:25:52 PM
Apparently we will all know someone who will die..uuuhhhhh!! ??? (:)

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/likely-people-know-die-coronavirus-212524891.html

Every person I know is going to die at some point it's just a matter of when! Where do they get this trash from..

Can some on here create a kind of poll? We can all put our ages in and get a good idea from the forum who will be here at the end of the year.. :laugh:

Im not going any where for sure, as far as I know I have no underlying problems (Touch wood) so if it lands on me I will just shake it off like a flea.. ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 08:05:53 PM

All though WHO is calling for all nations to put out all the stops on this virus now,  on January 9 WHO praised China for their quick ability to identify this new virus and capability to manage it. WHO should've put out warnings to all nations back in early January but they were  misled by China. We now know that the virus was discovered much earlier than when China first reported it and we now know they never had it under control spreading recklessly within and outside of their country. Their deception and lack of transparency is now getting a lot of people killed, not to mention we may have to live with this virus forever if we lose control of it.

https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/09-01-2020-who-statement-regarding-cluster-of-pneumonia-cases-in-wuhan-china
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 09, 2020, 09:06:41 PM
Specifically, what would have been done to counter this virus, BillyB?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 09, 2020, 09:56:17 PM
Texan77, there's the problem with you not being in possession of the relevant information.

The USA has been testing about 1 person in a million. Much lower than most of Western Europe and Korea. As a result fewer infections are detected. Its kinda like covering one's eyes and saying there's no cars coming as one walks across a busy road.

We don't know how many cases exist in the USA, but we can be sure that there are many more than you lot know about.

Andrew the way you can tell the real infection rate is by deaths. Take the number of deaths and times a hundred and that is your real infection rate as of about three weeks ago. Deaths in Europe are much higher than US. The trouble with Europe they lost it in Italy. Italy had 460 deaths as of this morning with a one per cent death rate means they had 46,000 infections about three weeks ago. This huge number of infected people are running all over Europe. The first case in Ukraine was when I was there. It was a Ukrainian who drove back from northern Italy to Ukraine infecting people all along the way. After he got back he got sick and went to a doctor. Most people who get this disease never get reported because they just get well on there own. So the only way to tell infections is by deaths. Last I heard we in USA have had 22 deaths for a country nearly as large as all of Europe. Still that means we had 2200 people all running around the country infecting other people as of three weeks ago. The number is surely a lot higher now.  Most people are infected for a couple of weeks before they get sick enough to want to get tested. Europe has a much bigger problem than you seem to want to admit. I could not find a current death rate for the rest of the countries this morning or I would use it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2020, 10:21:11 PM

Mongolia reports its first case of coronavirus. They shut down all schools in the country and suspended all local travel in the province the infected person was in. Government officials get the truth from top doctors and scientists. The actions they are taking against this particular virus are extreme and are different than the actions they took against previous viruses. There's enough education on the internet that tells you the truth about this virus's characteristics and behavior but you have to filter out the crap and most of it is crap. If you understand it, you will agree with Bill Gates, who has experience fighting many epidemics, that COVID-19 is the once-in-a-century pathogen we’ve been worried about. It's here and we get front row seats to the show that will make the history books.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mongolia-confirms-its-first-coronavirus-case-in-french-worker/ar-BB10Y2Vu?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 10, 2020, 12:09:16 AM
Italy had 460 deaths as of this morning with a one per cent death rate means they had 46,000 infections about three weeks ago.
I think you're misstaken on the death count there. Italy hasn't even got double-digits (meaning above 10) deaths.

Last I heard the death toll in Netherlands is 3 and in italy its 7 now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 10, 2020, 12:13:12 AM
This morning numbers USA 26 deaths and France 30 deaths. France is nearing stage 3 where the virus is out of control over the whole country and Italy is already there with 463 deaths. Italy has the oldest population in the world and may have a higher death rate per infection than other countries.  The USA will likely be in stage three a week or two. Germany seems to be the most prepared country to this point with zero deaths and over one thousand one hundred confirmed infections.  Spain has 26 deaths so far. UK has four deaths so far with 378 confirmed cases. The UK is expecting thing to get much worse soon like we are here. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 10, 2020, 12:20:34 AM
This morning numbers USA 26 deaths and France 30 deaths. France is nearing stage 3 where the virus is out of control over the whole country and Italy is already there with 463 deaths. Italy has the oldest population in the world and may have a higher death rate per infection than other countries.  The USA will likely be in stage three a week or two. Germany seems to be the most prepared country to this point with zero deaths and over one thousand one hundred confirmed infections.  Spain has 26 deaths so far. UK has four deaths so far with 378 confirmed cases. The UK is expecting thing to get much worse soon like we are here.
Do you have a source for italy's high death rate?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 10, 2020, 12:24:55 AM
Do you have a source for italy's high death rate?
Never mind, i found it. Looks like italy has been fibbing a bit and now decided to come out with the truth. (and put the whole country in lockdown)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 10, 2020, 04:03:07 AM

I think you're misstaken on the death count there. Italy hasn't even got double-digits (meaning above 10) deaths.

Last I heard the death toll in Netherlands is 3 and in italy its 7 now.

Markje,

As a trip was planned to Italy for the 4th of March, I can assure you that Italy has been reporting in the same fashion and I have observed the reported deaths .. ( daily)   The trip was cancelled ..



Italy was 35 on the 2nd, and double digits (107)  by the 5th March, 148 on the 6th, 197 on the 7th, 234, 8th, 355 on the 9th 


Source : WHO https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 10, 2020, 05:39:59 AM
Do you have a source for italy's high death rate?
Never mind, i found it. Looks like italy has been fibbing a bit and now decided to come out with the truth. (and put the whole country in lockdown)

Italy has 463 dead as of this posting.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 10, 2020, 07:37:36 AM
Markje, I don't think that the Italians were lying. What seems to have happened, at least to a significant degree, is that when the containment of much of the North took place a whole load of folks jumped into their cars and decamped to visit relatives down south. In addition, as the rate of testing has gone up, they have found more hotspots and infected people. An increase in infections is bound to occur as more testing is carried out.

Interestingly, it looks as though the main contingent of sufferers in Italy are infected with a different strain of Covid-19 to that found in China. I am trying to find the original source for the quoted information. I want to find out, as well as I can, if that is the case. There's so much hogwash going around now that finding good quality, primary source material is bloody hard. There are claims originating in Japan and Taiwan that the strain found in China is not the oldest strain - again, a couple of hours of following a load of dead ends is making life in that respect quite hard.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 10, 2020, 07:43:54 AM
In the hallowed ancient wisdom to always go with your gut instincts a.k.a. esp... My gut instincts based upon working as a research institutes lead cyber security pro... This Corona virus variant was known and several US and Canadian BSL4 facilities were researching vaccines for it. Several CCP industrial espionage agents in the guise of grad students and MD/PHD researchers saw the potential of CoVid19 as a potential bioweapon and smuggled vials of samples to the CCP's Wuhan bioweapons lab where it was either inadvertently or possibly intentionally released by people with HK and or Taipei sympathies to cause maximum bio havoc and mayhem and so here we are...

This is what happens when you defer to CCP sympatico academics and allow 400,000 industrial stem espionage agents (students) from the CCP invade your country. Time to use this bio hazard to end this invasion imnsho
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 10, 2020, 07:49:48 AM
In the hallowed ancient wisdom to always go with your gut instincts a.k.a. esp... My gut instincts based upon working as a research institutes lead cyber security pro... This Corona virus variant was known and several US and Canadian BSL4 facilities were researching vaccines for it. Several CCP industrial espionage agents in the guise of grad students and MD/PHD researchers saw the potential of CoVid19 as a potential bioweapon and smuggled vials of samples to the CCP's Wuhan bioweapons lab where it was either inadvertently or possibly intentionally released by people with HK and or Taipei sympathies to cause maximum bio havoc and mayhem and so here we are...

This is what happens when you defer to CCP sympatico academics and allow 400,000 industrial stem espionage agents (students) from the CCP invade your country. Time to use this bio hazard to end this invasion imnsho

I knew there was more to it than meets the eye!

(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89339281_2650546065044281_8969900238324105216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeF9MffiKebSIvtfG9qNEB2nKH_qtR9tWNYM6L6oMDnnHwIewxn2h0rsIklUqIQh8aHd5WgPe7HAt16mgimhsg7iSdNNP5rVEY8vnf37JV34Lw&_nc_oc=AQnUdkjzNjBXEWV7WRGanYhPlcevx9VemD38JTA3BPRzY8G0yHO8WdwAfVp6tAMfGtM&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=9df5617672d86314887eb52b4e704ef0&oe=5E90ACA5)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 10, 2020, 08:14:30 AM
Markje, I don't think that the Italians were lying. What seems to have happened, at least to a significant degree, is that when the containment of much of the North took place a whole load of folks jumped into their cars and decamped to visit relatives down south. In addition, as the rate of testing has gone up, they have found more hotspots and infected people. An increase in infections is bound to occur as more testing is carried out.

Interestingly, it looks as though the main contingent of sufferers in Italy are infected with a different strain of Covid-19 to that found in China. I am trying to find the original source for the quoted information. I want to find out, as well as I can, if that is the case. There's so much hogwash going around now that finding good quality, primary source material is bloody hard. There are claims originating in Japan and Taiwan that the strain found in China is not the oldest strain - again, a couple of hours of following a load of dead ends is making life in that respect quite hard.

Doing any fact checking is like going down a rabbit's hole with the 'walls' covered in mirrors.

As I recall on this thread Texan noted a few days back there were two strains. What I am reading trying to filter out less trustworthy sources is that the virus was around in Wuhan in the fall.

Also the information based on what I read and understood about the testing is not 100% accurate. As a commentator noted one can find 5 different sets of facts and come up with ten scenario's. Sort of like putting together a puzzle of a painting by J. Pollock. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 10, 2020, 08:48:09 AM
AvHdB, there are always different levels of value to information. Yes, it is difficult, but we can get there. There are things we do not know, usually because of time - so, for example, we have no definite numbers of infected because of the paucity of testing in many places. We do not yet know the death rate, partly because we do not yet know the denominator figure (infection rate) and, of course, some people who are being treated will take a turn for the worse and die. We can only ever estimate the number but time gives defining context just as it does with influenza. We do know the genetic structure of the virus in various locations because that's a matter of objective observation and analysis. There may be more strains out there.

In the case of the rabbit hole down which I inserted myself, the information is not hidden - but it is hard to find, partly because of language issues. When I get a moment I will look at the transcripts of the TV shows where information about the genetic structure of the virus was discussed. When I have done that I can check out the papers that were the basis of the presentation.

As time passes, it is becoming clear that the death rate of around 1.4% is the best 'real world' estimate available and that's a good thing. Here's another source, easier to read, on that topic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/06/coronavirus-update-latest-live-news-symptoms-cases-global-infection-rate-uk-usa-australia-italy-china-updates?page=with:block-5e61db4a8f08c2df6d274472#block-5e61db4a8f08c2df6d274472 That number is likely to fall over time as it is now clear the death rate is, as one might expect, higher when there is inadequate care for the seriously infected.

An interesting point that came up from the Guardian link is that more than 40% of carriers of Covid-19 were not picked up by health services in the countries to which people leaving Hubei returned. The 40% 'gold standard was obtained in Singapore which has had a very good record of testing. Based upon that we know there's quite a few folks wandering around in other countries who have not been detected and have been infecting others.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 10, 2020, 10:42:17 AM
In my little corner of the world, we're likely quite safe.
But, in less than a month I go on my first cruise.
Now it's a Caribbean cruise so odds are still low.
But putting 6000 people in a small area does not seem like the greatest of ideas
when this thing is spreading like wild fire.

I am not  worried about catching it, as has been said large portion go on with life.
I am worried about being shoved in quarantine for who knows how long.
Taking a week away no problem, sitting in a hole for weeks does not seem appealing.

they have already informed us, a screening shall take place during boarding.
not sure if that should be reassuring or alarming  :laugh:

Are you still going to take the cruise?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 10, 2020, 10:50:08 AM
Much as it pains me to say it, might it not be better to cancel - if possible? Being locked up in a cabin for a couple of weeks does not seem to be an ideal choice, even if you are OK with being infected. That latter being a point I understand and agree with.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 10:53:02 AM

I have good news and bad news for you guys. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.

http://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-04-20/h_105a9b1b3bd680a0533016b0e7f2a9ef
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 10, 2020, 11:14:23 AM

I have good news and bad news for you guys. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.

 :ROFL: 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 10, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
Friday night The cruise line sent an offer of a couple hundred US dollars to spend if we complete cruise.
next option a travel voucher for  future cruise. Which is what I choose.

As said above, not to concerned with catching it as I am being quarantined.
Being stuck in a hole for weeks and even upon return to Canada they have taken
cruise passengers to Military base under another quarantine for 2 weeks.

Being self employed  and April /  May being 2 of my busier months, all logic says
don't do it, so I am not. Canada today announced Travel advisories for Cruise ships.
Currently has 8-10 countries on that list, likely to grow.

I still have flights to Florida and 1 night of hotel already booked and paid for.
I leave a week from Saturday, So I will decided next Thursday if I am going or not.
Depending on what it looks like then, odds right now are low with 71 cases all of Canada
and 17 in Florida, sure to grow, should still be safe trip.

We like to wonder and sight see, so can avoid large gatherings and events and still enjoy
a week in nicer climate. Again final decision will be made couple days before.
All I need is rental car and a hotel for 6 nights can book very quickly.
we will see :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 10, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
Friday night The cruise line sent an offer of a couple hundred US dollars to spend if we complete cruise.
next option a travel voucher for  future cruise. Which is what I choose.

As said above, not to concerned with catching it as I am being quarantined.
Being stuck in a hole for weeks and even upon return to Canada they have taken
cruise passengers to Military base under another quarantine for 2 weeks.

Being self employed  and April /  May being 2 of my busier months, all logic says
don't do it, so I am not. Canada today announced Travel advisories for Cruise ships.
Currently has 8-10 countries on that list, likely to grow.

I still have flights to Florida and 1 night of hotel already booked and paid for.
I leave a week from Saturday, So I will decided next Thursday if I am going or not.
Depending on what it looks like then, odds right now are low with 71 cases all of Canada
and 17 in Florida, sure to grow, should still be safe trip.

We like to wonder and sight see, so can avoid large gatherings and events and still enjoy
a week in nicer climate. Again final decision will be made couple days before.
All I need is rental car and a hotel for 6 nights can book very quickly.
we will see :)

Good luck buddy, if you go hope you have a safe trip and enjoy the sunshine. 😎
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 10, 2020, 04:12:21 PM

I have good news and bad news for you guys. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.

http://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-04-20/h_105a9b1b3bd680a0533016b0e7f2a9ef

This is actually a good thing with the "one child" policy in China.  Too many males.  This is the "balance of nature" redefining the population.  However, it needs to target the young men, not the ones nearing death.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 10, 2020, 04:41:22 PM
. There are claims originating in Japan and Taiwan that the strain found in China is not the oldest strain

Chinese media yesterday put out some info that stated it didn’t start in China. I assumed that to be CCP propaganda but the rumour is cropping up in many outlets of several strains and an earlier version.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 10, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

I have good news and bad news for you guys. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.

http://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-04-20/h_105a9b1b3bd680a0533016b0e7f2a9ef

This is actually a good thing with the "one child" policy in China.  Too many males.  This is the "balance of nature" redefining the population.  However, it needs to target the young men, not the ones nearing death.   :chuckle:

The one child policy finished some time ago.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 05:47:11 PM
. There are claims originating in Japan and Taiwan that the strain found in China is not the oldest strain

Chinese media yesterday put out some info that stated it didn’t start in China. I assumed that to be CCP propaganda but the rumour is cropping up in many outlets of several strains and an earlier version.

Citizens have been directing their anger at the government lately. Got to deflect it elsewhere. If the virus truly did come from somewhere else such as Japan and Taiwan, their infections rate should be much higher and China should've sounded the alarm when it was first discovered in their country instead of arresting whistleblowers and blaming a meat market.

The good news for China is the World isn't focused on them anymore. We are paying attention to what is going on in our and our neighbors countries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 10, 2020, 06:30:04 PM
. There are claims originating in Japan and Taiwan that the strain found in China is not the oldest strain

Chinese media yesterday put out some info that stated it didn’t start in China. I assumed that to be CCP propaganda but the rumour is cropping up in many outlets of several strains and an earlier version.

Also, Iran and Russia are "insinuating" that the bug is a Western lab product.  Same story from China.
The "axis of evil" keeps shifting.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 10, 2020, 06:31:46 PM

I have good news and bad news for you guys. In an early study, China said two thirds of their recorded deaths were men. That is the bad news for you. The good new is if you survive, eventually there may be two women for every man on earth.

http://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-04-20/h_105a9b1b3bd680a0533016b0e7f2a9ef

This is actually a good thing with the "one child" policy in China.  Too many males.  This is the "balance of nature" redefining the population.  However, it needs to target the young men, not the ones nearing death.   :chuckle:

The one child policy finished some time ago.

Yes, that is correct.  However, sometimes it takes nature time to "catch up" with "artificial policies".     :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2020, 09:24:01 PM

Top Communist official in Wuhan calls for gratitude education for all so citizens may show their appreciation for the government that saved their country. Sounds like he's got a hard on for a promotion. Although the Chinese government thinks the Chinese government are heroes, the doctors who tried to sound the alarm early and forced China's hand into reporting the virus to WHO are the heroes. While the world is busy with the gift China gave them, China is rewriting history.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-official-called-gratitude-education-190949766.html

November 2019 China was hit by the plague and silenced whistleblower doctors. Sound familiar? They finally reported it to WHO only after what was happening posted on social media. They got the plague under control. Probably gave them confidence they'd the virus of the century under control.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/16/china-bubonic-plague-outbreak-pandemic/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 11, 2020, 01:31:28 AM
Insider video again!
China employees are slowly getting back to work.  In this video a TCL employee in Shenzhen suddenly failed beside the production line.

https://twitter.com/howroute/status/1236156410939006977
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 11, 2020, 01:44:14 AM
. There are claims originating in Japan and Taiwan that the strain found in China is not the oldest strain

Chinese media yesterday put out some info that stated it didn’t start in China. I assumed that to be CCP propaganda but the rumour is cropping up in many outlets of several strains and an earlier version.


It is simply the policy of ChiNazi from the beginning.  They do not allow people to call it Wuhan virus.  The WHO Chinese name of Covid virus is 新冠 病毒(virus).

In Japan, there is a county actually named 新冠 -
https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-zip/zipcode.php?pref=1&city=1016040

And ChiNazi has already described this virus in their report as Japan 新冠 virus -
http://www.xinhuanet.com/2020-02/17/c_1125588577.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 11, 2020, 02:10:29 AM
In the hallowed ancient wisdom to always go with your gut instincts a.k.a. esp... My gut instincts based upon working as a research institutes lead cyber security pro... This Corona virus variant was known and several US and Canadian BSL4 facilities were researching vaccines for it. Several CCP industrial espionage agents in the guise of grad students and MD/PHD researchers saw the potential of CoVid19 as a potential bioweapon and smuggled vials of samples to the CCP's Wuhan bioweapons lab where it was either inadvertently or possibly intentionally released by people with HK and or Taipei sympathies to cause maximum bio havoc and mayhem and so here we are...

This is what happens when you defer to CCP sympatico academics and allow 400,000 industrial stem espionage agents (students) from the CCP invade your country. Time to use this bio hazard to end this invasion imnsho


Yes, ChiNazi do have a plan to attack USA with bio-weapon.  You may get the English source of ChiNazi's internal speech from your government, CIA, news agents etc.

Someone even suspects it was a failed mission attacking USA troop last year when they were in Wuhan sport game.
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28644.msg506014.html#msg506014

Some other people may object that there is no reason for ChiNazi to use uncontrolled bio-weapon at this stage.  My explanation is:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 11, 2020, 05:12:43 AM
Only 8 weeks till the summer starts .. it will all be old news and history very soon,, then everyone will look back and see how stupid they have been over just a common flu.. ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 11, 2020, 07:20:13 AM
State of Massachusetts has declared a state of emergency so that Gov Baker can allocate emergency funds and resources or cancel major gatherings as would be prudent. The Boston St Patty's day with 1 Million spectators canceled and likely the BAA Boston Marathon with Boston and State of MA to cancel and that is a huge hit for hotels with runners from all over the globe... With Italy on lockdown and air ship and rail travel soon to follow I do not see the Marathon happening until this is under control.

New Hampshire only has a handful of cases so has not gone on lockdown yet though the local City Buses have all posted Covid19 hygiene notices in English and Spanish and some of the drivers are spraying disinfectants after passengers unload.

The irony is all the major Boston Universities and Colleges... Approx 300,000 students informed that they need to pack up and leave their dorms in 5 days (Yes the hallowed Global Citizens factories of Harvard, BU, MIT, UMass BC telling their sons and daughters of Global privilege to GTFO in a polite manner and to not come back after spring break and to attend all their classes on line for the duration. Considering they held classes during WWII this is a major reaction to the Covid19 crisis.

The irony here is profound as the big sales advantage to justify $40K per semester tuition and high room and board dorm and grad apt fees and rents was the Residential experience vs just online that any third world techhies could provide like UoP. This will in the long run prove to be a great disruptor and accelerate adoption of the distributed online UoP model of the University of the People versus the ultra high cost and elitist Harvard MIT BU and even UMASS models resulting in a mass democratization of Global education and knowledge. Furthermore lessening the draw for 20,000 plus mainland Chinese students to study and copy metro Boston R&D stem innovations. This will force even Harvard and MIT with very limited student populations to expand their biz models to include massive online audiences and finally undermine the bloated overpaid Uni administrators highly inflated tuitions and fees. MIT has long made their courses available online but NO degrees can be awarded unless you physically attend classes.... Elitist ultra high cost tuitions are about to meet 21st century 5G reality.

All knowledge is now fungible and Unis are going to be scrambling to figure out how to continue to monitize their constantly inflating gravy trains in the face of Wikipedia, UoP and global pandemics....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 11, 2020, 07:44:18 AM
Cufflinks, that's a good point about universities and education.

To be fair, this will only accelerate a process that has already started. I signed up for Wharton's online teaching many years ago and found it worthwhile - and free!

The other issue here is that sending thousands of potentially infected kids across the country to their homes is a wonderful way to speedily and (in the USA) invisibly, transfer the virus across the country. If they are going to send thousands of people on a mass migration they should be testing all of them before they leave their dorm rooms and other accommodations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 08:37:44 AM
Only 8 weeks till the summer starts .. it will all be old news and history very soon,, then everyone will look back and see how stupid they have been over just a common flu.. ;D

The media and governments have given hope to people so they don't panic that this virus will disappear with warmer weather and sunny skies. COVID is not related to the flu virus. It's tougher and may be able to survive in the heat and sun longer and have an increase chance over the flu virus it'll be passed to another human during summer months. Last week WHO put out a statement "It’s a ‘false hope’ coronavirus will disappear in the summer like the flu"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/its-a-false-hope-coronavirus-will-disappear-in-the-summer-like-the-flu-who-says.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 11, 2020, 10:21:37 AM
Its now in North Korea.

There are two locations in quarantine, totalling about 7000 people. One near the border with South Korea and one near the border with China. The source was returning workers from China right before they closed the borders and some is attributed to smugglers from China.

They are confident they'll be on top of it quite quickly. They sourced a bunch of testing kits from Russia.

There are many silly bits of western media making all sorts of unverified claims as usual, people being shot willy nilly, that's not happening and was misinterpreted. What is happening is the guards along the border have authority to shoot people coming over illicitly from China (smugglers) to keep further infection out.

That's the skinny from within the country as of yesterday.  :coffeeread:

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 10:51:07 AM
Its now in North Korea.

There are two locations in quarantine, totalling about 7000 people.


Is that an official N Korean government statement? N Korea hasn't reported an infections or deaths to WHO.

There have been western media reports like the one below written a few days ago where hundreds died and thousands are quarantined in N Korea. Don't know how that info got out of N Korea for them to report those numbers but if true, it may have pressured N Korea to make an official announcement.

https://www.businessinsider.com/almost-200-north-korean-soldiers-died-coronavirus-2020-3

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 11, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
Only 8 weeks till the summer starts .. it will all be old news and history very soon,, then everyone will look back and see how stupid they have been over just a common flu.. ;D

The media and governments have given hope to people so they don't panic that this virus will disappear with warmer weather and sunny skies. COVID is not related to the flu virus. It's tougher and may be able to survive in the heat and sun longer and have an increase chance over the flu virus it'll be passed to another human during summer months. Last week WHO put out a statement "It’s a ‘false hope’ coronavirus will disappear in the summer like the flu"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/its-a-false-hope-coronavirus-will-disappear-in-the-summer-like-the-flu-who-says.html

What about in the Sahara desert? If I owned some land in the desert I would be setting refuge camps ups mind you it would not be free!!! The Antarctic ?? freeze it to death??

I still don't  see the problem, my parents are old so not so good for them, though there is none if very little in that part of the world I already advised them how to survive should it come to the village..

Do you remember the movie Ben Hur and the lepers ? Well I told them to lock the house down , not go out for months.. my sister will deliver a bag of food to the front door each week to keep them going..

Simple really .. Im sending them over some bio suits that are reasonably cheap here just incase they need to go for a walk..





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 11, 2020, 01:30:45 PM
WHO now calling this a Pandemic.
and so it grows.
All major sports leagues are talking the possibilities of playing games with no spectators.
Women's world hockey Championships were here in Halifax this year, cancelled.
next on list to be decided Friday or Monday the Mens worlds.
IIHF has some tuff decisions to make.

Canada Federal Government has now committed 1 billion towards health care for virus.

Tourism will take a massive world wide hit.
the affect on the world economy is going to be huge.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 11, 2020, 02:17:24 PM
Cufflinks, that's a good point about universities and education.

To be fair, this will only accelerate a process that has already started. I signed up for Wharton's online teaching many years ago and found it worthwhile - and free!

The other issue here is that sending thousands of potentially infected kids across the country to their homes is a wonderful way to speedily and (in the USA) invisibly, transfer the virus across the country. If they are going to send thousands of people on a mass migration they should be testing all of them before they leave their dorm rooms and other accommodations.

Probably the only place on Earth with a grander sense of entitlement than Oxford and Cambridge is Harvard and MIT.  The idea that Lord Afi would suggest that Harvard and Boston's satellite Unis actually practice common bloody sense is white privilege mansplaining in all its glory. LOL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 11, 2020, 02:22:55 PM
Its now in North Korea.

There are two locations in quarantine, totalling about 7000 people.


Is that an official N Korean government statement? N Korea hasn't reported an infections or deaths to WHO.

There have been western media reports like the one below written a few days ago where hundreds died and thousands are quarantined in N Korea. Don't know how that info got out of N Korea for them to report those numbers but if true, it may have pressured N Korea to make an official announcement.

https://www.businessinsider.com/almost-200-north-korean-soldiers-died-coronavirus-2020-3

What you linked was the drivel I referred to. What I posted is what is happening and was released at the weekend officially. The media will no doubt pick up on it in coming days.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 11, 2020, 02:27:30 PM
Cufflinks, the language that is most commonly spoken in your country is English - use it!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 11, 2020, 03:26:46 PM
Cufflinks, the language that is most commonly spoken in your country is English - use it!

Do you really think he knows too?

He only can manage the pre-school bubbling of babies......

 :ROFL:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 11, 2020, 03:40:21 PM
V - gawd knows how she found this - sent me this...

[21:28, 11/03/2020] Violetta: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/suddenly-the-er-is-collapsing-a-doctors-stark-warning-from-italys-coronavirus-epicentre/ (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/suddenly-the-er-is-collapsing-a-doctors-stark-warning-from-italys-coronavirus-epicentre/)

A taste of the living hell Italian Health workers are facing and how they simply cannot cope ..((


"Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed."

Only grocery shops are allowed to open ..no more bars / restaurants - announced by the PM, tonight

In the UK 'COBRA' will meet tomorrow .. possibly we'll see some severe control measures... 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 11, 2020, 03:46:41 PM
Quote
“This is not a bacteria, you can’t give them antibiotics, and until we get a treatment – which we may never get – we have to support the individual to recover themselves.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/health-chief-coronavirus-outbreak-vaccine-123912835.html

You can only deter a virus, not eradicate it like bacteria.  If you are one of the "defective" ones that can't deter it, well, the only thing left is to hope for a miracle.   :nod:

Quote
So when one of the primates had a juicy banana, the entire pack roaming around the streets surrounded the creature this morning (March 11) and tried to grab it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hundreds-starving-wild-monkeys-fight-100000703.html

Replace primates with Homo Sapiens above when things go totally amok.   :scared0005: :hidechair: :o (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 11, 2020, 04:04:50 PM
WHO now calling this a Pandemic.
and so it grows.
All major sports leagues are talking the possibilities of playing games with no spectators.
Women's world hockey Championships were here in Halifax this year, cancelled.
next on list to be decided Friday or Monday the Mens worlds.
IIHF has some tuff decisions to make.

Canada Federal Government has now committed 1 billion towards health care for virus.

Tourism will take a massive world wide hit.
the affect on the world economy is going to be huge.

I saw an article saying that "March Madness" will be played in empty courts.  You will need to call it "March silence" instead or play taped crowd cheering over the PA system that you see on certain TV comedy shows that have a laugh track.   ??? :duh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 04:18:10 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51845817

Damn. All shops and restaurants will be closed in Italy except food stores and pharmacies. A lot of people will go out of business.

People should watch the video in the link. The Director General of WHO in the video said he's deeply concerned about the alarming levels of spread, severity and alarming levels of inaction. A lot of people and governments out there think this virus isn't much more dangerous than the flu. Thank you China for educating us early on with your fake reports that it's weak stuff.

Governor of Washington State just announce he's banning gatherings of over 250 people in three counties. Seattle Mariners baseball team season is about to begin. They may end up playing in a stadium elsewhere since they'll lose money playing in Seattle. Musicians with live concerts coming up will have to cancel their events. Comic Con in Seattle had been cancelled before this announcement. Churches that hold more than 250 people at a time will have to turn people away so they don't violate the new law. Not a quarantine yet here but another step towards one.

Trump announce he'll speak to the nation tonight 9 PM eastern time. Maybe he'll say this virus is mortality rate is higher than previous estimates without freaking people out too much. He does have a responsibility to protect the economy. Causing panic is not productive. I also predict he'll offer help to businesses. Many small business can't maintain a 20% loss of sales for an extended period of time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2020, 06:22:09 PM

Trump announced starting this Friday he will suspend all flights to and from Europe for 30 days, UK excluded. Trump said his quick action to suspend flights from China early was beneficial to our nation and the failure of Europe to suspend flights was wrong and the spread of the virus in America is coming from Europe.

Trump said Americans health is priority and he will help those financially hurt by the virus. Based on his proposals, he will provide over 50 billion dollars work of assistance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 11, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
WATCH LIVE: TRUMP HINTS AT NATIONWIDE QUARANTINE OVER CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK
Infowars.com - March 11, 2020 -
Will president impose mass medical martial law in response to pandemic?

Oh yes he did it Trump shuts down all people from Europe as travelers from EU seeded most infections in USA i.e. Italy... Damn Trump is not playing games... First China blocked and now all of EU except for UK...  Hopefully BJissimo and Blighty take this Covid19 crisis just as seriously.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 11, 2020, 07:58:35 PM
Cufflinks, the language that is most commonly spoken in your country is English - use it!

Do you really think he knows too?

He only can manage the pre-school bubbling of babies......

 :ROFL:


They way submariners check others mental health is to ping on each other with sarcastic humor... Clearly we see who the humorless Brit and Greek are...  Signs of metal illness... Sad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 12:07:57 AM
Mikey,

'Trampu' has banned flights from SHENGEN nations..

That does not include Norway, UK, IRL, the eastern Med island of Cyprus, etc.

Seems BIZARRE.. A Schengen national can go to these nations and their passport is not stamped.  Do they all share info with the US ?

Many folks hold two passports.

Does the US know THIS?

I can see plenty of ways this ban will be circumvented.


Italy was one of the first to ban flights from China...

How did that work for them?

The ban seems illogical...Why not ban all nations..?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 12, 2020, 12:41:46 AM
Bio-weapon attack Mission Accomplished!!!
NATO's Polish commander-in-chief of the armed forces, General Jarosław Miki, has been infected by China Huhan Virus 2019!!!


https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/koronawirus-w-polsce-general-jaroslaw-mika-zarazony-koronawirusem/vh1pznh
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 12, 2020, 12:44:38 AM
Tom Hanks has been infected with coronavirus in Australia!!!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/12/tom-hanks-wife-rita-wilson-infected-coronavirus-australia/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 12, 2020, 01:22:35 AM
NBA suspends season after player is contracted the virus.

NHL likely to food suit.

Most concerts have been canceled

getting very real now as countries close for business.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on March 12, 2020, 02:51:59 AM
For what its worth..
Made me chuckle..[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 12, 2020, 03:22:28 AM
ok guys whoever gets the virus here first...nice knowin' ya!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 12, 2020, 04:21:21 AM
For what its worth..
Made me chuckle.. (Attachment Link)

We're in Moscow Tomorrow for the weekend .. will I be safe? Christ all this trouble from a few little people eating bloody bats and hedgehogs!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 12, 2020, 07:30:17 AM
Trump has banned flights from SHENGEN nations..

That does not include Norway, UK, IRL, the eastern Med island of Cyprus, etc.

Seems BIZARRE.. A Schengen national can go to these nations and their passport is not stamped.  Do they all share info with the US ?

Many folks hold two passports.

Does the US know THIS?

I can see plenty of ways this ban will be circumvented.


Italy was one of the first to ban flights from China...

How did that work for them?

The ban seems illogical...Why not ban all nations..?

I understand what you're attempting to get at but you're missing the main point.

The step before full lock down is to limit travel from the hot spots. Limit as in not completely shut it off. Did you really think that the US would cancel all flights from everywhere?  :ROFL:

Most people don't have 2 passports so I'm not sure why you're slipping this little fib in. Most people almost certainly have 1 or zero passports.

Banning direct flights from the hot spots will greatly reduce the direct rate of infection but anyone who really needs to get to their destination, will still find a way. Remember the terrorist state ban - or Muslim ban you lot called it?  :-\ The majority of people travel for leisure and most will be put off by the cancellation. In fact as soon as direct flights are cancelled, most people decide to stay at home for good reason and stay safe.

With reduced numbers, authorities will then have a better chance of monitoring who travels and from where, with the resources available.

I understand this is illogical to you because you don't behave or see the world like most people do. Still, carry on and ridicule Trump rather than the US for this policy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 12, 2020, 07:51:17 AM
Rosco, you're spot-on here.

When I read Mystic's tirade my first thought was that it typified the way in which he thinks. His first reaction is to look for a loophole to be exploited.

On a practical level, setting aside Mystic's sociopathy, this action, as you noted, is not designed to be waterproof, it can leak. However, the real effect is upon airlines who will simply stop flying to the USA. Mystic might point out that he could sail there if he wanted to strongly enough - but again would be missing the point.

Rosco, you might know better than we do right now, but what's your estimate of the time until the UK closes or restricts flights to/from the UK or closes down airports due to the public health risk of large crowds from all across the globe being gathered in very close proximity?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 12, 2020, 08:26:43 AM
Looks like it suddenly arrived in St Petersburg!!

Gonna get a bio suit next week If I don't pick it up!

https://www.fontanka.ru/2020/03/12/69026986/?fbclid=IwAR1y__6X7NBY-vBnNawff-NjZI8Fm9T0bFsSXyvKr8PJnARffevgAUpr11w
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 08:51:32 AM
Steveboy..

I suspect it has been in your city for longer than you know...

Rosco, I really know you haven't even tried to 'get' my point..

The UK and other non Schengen nations also have serious issues and there was no 'fib' re two passports...

How many regular posters or their wives have two ( or more?) passports...?

Far more than you realise..

Try answering my doubts as to the effectiveness of such bans...given the coach and horses some folks can and WILL use to circumvent the 'ban'....

It's more 'newsworthy' than of any value...

It's too late, even if it was effective...



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 12, 2020, 08:55:19 AM
WATCH LIVE: TRUMP HINTS AT NATIONWIDE QUARANTINE OVER CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK
Infowars.com - March 11, 2020 -
Will president impose mass medical martial law in response to pandemic?

Oh yes he did it Trump shuts down all people from Europe as travelers from EU seeded most infections in USA i.e. Italy... Damn Trump is not playing games... First China blocked and now all of EU except for UK...  Hopefully BJissimo and Blighty take this Covid19 crisis just as seriously.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 08:59:09 AM
PS..

Anyone see how 'well' the GBP is doing v a basket of currencies?

Wonderful to be independent and 'strong'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 12, 2020, 09:00:35 AM
Trump has banned flights from SHENGEN nations..

That does not include Norway, UK, IRL, the eastern Med island of
Rosco, you're spot-on here.

When I read Mystic's tirade my first thought was that it typified the way in which he thinks. His first reaction is to look for a loophole to be exploited.

On a practical level, setting aside Mystic's sociopathy, this action, as you noted, is not designed to be waterproof, it can leak. However, the real effect is upon airlines who will simply stop flying to the USA. Mystic might point out that he could sail there if he wanted to strongly enough - but again would be missing the point.

Rosco, you might know better than we do right now, but what's your estimate of the time until the UK closes or restricts flights to/from the UK or closes down airports due to the public health risk of large crowds from all across the globe being gathered in very close proximity?

Cyprus, etc.

Seems BIZARRE.. A Schengen national can go to these nations and their passport is not stamped.  Do they all share info with the US ?

Many folks hold two passports.

Does the US know THIS?

I can see plenty of ways this ban will be circumvented.


Italy was one of the first to ban flights from China...

How did that work for them?

The ban seems illogical...Why not ban all nations..?

I understand what you're attempting to get at but you're missing the main point.

The step before full lock down is to limit travel from the hot spots. Limit as in not completely shut it off. Did you really think that the US would cancel all flights from everywhere?  :ROFL:

Most people don't have 2 passports so I'm not sure why you're slipping this little fib in. Most people almost certainly have 1 or zero passports.

Banning direct flights from the hot spots will greatly reduce the direct rate of infection but anyone who really needs to get to their destination, will still find a way. Remember the terrorist state ban - or Muslim ban you lot called it?  :-\ The majority of people travel for leisure and most will be put off by the cancellation. In fact as soon as direct flights are cancelled, most people decide to stay at home for good reason and stay safe.

With reduced numbers, authorities will then have a better chance of monitoring who travels and from where, with the resources available.

I understand this is illogical to you because you don't behave or see the world like most people do. Still, carry on and ridicule Trump rather than the US for this policy.

Spot on as usual Rosco.

Most people are honest, not dodgy con-artists like you know who.

Trump has taken a prudent step. Our liberal poster expects perfection.

Perfection doesn’t exist, but common sense does. Thankfully our Prez has it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 12, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
I have microwaved moist kitchen sponges for 2 minutes for years. Studies with swab cultures show 2 minutes kill 99% of bacteria and 4 minutes no bacterial spores grew in cultures. So 4 Minutes is most effective on moist sponges even scotchbrite sponges. I use 1 part bleach to 2 parts water in a dish soap squeeze bottle to clean sinks counters and cutting boards to disinfect after poultry and meats prep. Then nuke sponges as above.

So what about viruses??? No current studies on Covid19 however it is a Corona type and the WHO link had sanitary kitchen practices for counter ortops sinks refrigs and floors and cabinet etc handles. Bottom line is 70C or 158F cooking temps stovetop, oven or nuke kills H5N1 Flu virus so I use a metal meat thermometer that goes up to 220F above boiling point and cook all meats poultry and fish to 165F to be safe... If the world is to be quarantined for the next 2 months we still gotta eat. OBTW usually cook casseroles to 180F testing center and edges. HTH

https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/documents/food_risk_h5n1_11_2005/en/


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 12, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
Rosco, you might know better than we do right now, but what's your estimate of the time until the UK closes or restricts flights to/from the UK or closes down airports due to the public health risk of large crowds from all across the globe being gathered in very close proximity?

To be honest, I've no idea.

I read last night in the Edinburgh evening news that flights from quarantined areas such as Milan, are still arriving into Edinburgh direct and without being monitored. Again, this could be made up news but its certainly worrying if true. Last month I arrive in Bologna and was greeted by Italian authorities with heat probes. When we left they just shipped us off without inspection.

I also read yesterday that airlines including Virgin, are continuing to fly their routes near empty. The EU has some kind of regulation in place whereby an airline can lose its slots if they fail to fulfil them. Seems utterly bonkers and another display of EU bureaucracy gone made.

In the end, passenger demand, financial losses and the Greta Thunberg's of the world will eventually bring this to the attention of those in control. Of course, the coming weeks could bring an inflection point and everything will get shut down, like it or not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 10:07:26 AM
[Trump has taken a prudent step. Our liberal poster expects perfection.

Perfection doesn’t exist, but common sense does. Thankfully our Prez has it.

Yet ANOTHER poster that is blind to reason...

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Proportionally, Ireland ( rep. of) has it worse than the UK and closed all schools, Unis and public buildings from today.

'Trampu' probably ignored advisers ....as usual...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 12, 2020, 10:46:34 AM
Rapid nucleic acid amplification test has been invented by Faculty of Medicine of University of Hong Kong to detect Wuhan Virus 2019!

This approach is highly sensitive and can detect minute amounts of viral RNA from samples within two hours!!!  We share our findings for free!

https://www.hku.hk/press/news_detail_20763.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 12, 2020, 12:15:21 PM
[Trump has taken a prudent step. Our liberal poster expects perfection.

Perfection doesn’t exist, but common sense does. Thankfully our Prez has it.

Yet ANOTHER poster that is blind to reason...

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Proportionally, Ireland ( rep. of) has it worse than the UK and closed all schools, Unis and public buildings from today.

President Trump probably ignored advisers ....as usual...

(Sighs) Oh dear Mystic, perhaps try to think with logic and reason over and above your uncontrollable emotion and prejudice. It really will cut down the amount of embarrassing posts you dump over each thread.

OK so lets start with your first outburst;

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Looking at the confirmed cases and deaths by country, we can see a disproportionate amount of cases in your beloved "Schengen nations". Yes the UK is also on here albeit much further down the list. Then if we look at the amount of direct flights from Western Europe compared with those from say Iran or Korea, we can start to build a bit of logic into any decisions made.

I can already hear you thumping your keyboard with but but but.....what about Ireland blah blah blah. Well, you can read up on this again in my previous post. Ireland and the Uk are closer to the US and we do have that special relationship. Ireland even has US immigration in the tattie fields! We've not got a free pass but the US resources can focus on people who travel these routes.

Again - not rocket science for a normal man.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Then there's this beauty;

President Trump probably ignored advisers ....as usual...

I mean what a dick you are!!  :ROFL:

There's bucketfuls of salty tears and bitterness right there in those 7 words alone! As soon as you wrote "probably", we all thought "you little wet fart"!!

Can you write anything half sensible or is idiot, your permanent default position? It would be nice to experience something else from your rather limited repertoire.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 12, 2020, 12:16:37 PM
PS..

Anyone see how 'well' the GBP is doing v a basket of currencies?

Wonderful to be independent and 'strong'...

Eh we're still in the EU fanny baws.  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 12, 2020, 12:21:41 PM
Try answering my doubts as to the effectiveness of such bans...given the coach and horses some folks can and WILL use to circumvent the 'ban'....

Try re-reading this thread and ask the adults about the bits you don't understand.

Hint - the US hasn't banned people from Schengen nations. They're limiting the routes. If you you still can't work it out, hand back the wasted oxygen and depart this place pronto.

 :fighting0025:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 12, 2020, 12:28:48 PM
[Trump has taken a prudent step. Our liberal poster expects perfection.

Perfection doesn’t exist, but common sense does. Thankfully our Prez has it.

Yet ANOTHER poster that is blind to reason...

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Proportionally, Ireland ( rep. of) has it worse than the UK and closed all schools, Unis and public buildings from today.

'Trampu' probably ignored advisers ....as usual...

We are a magnanimous lot at RUA and will not ban ms. We can though ignore his petty thinking, flawed logic and silly stupidity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 01:02:21 PM


(Sighs) Oh dear Mystic, perhaps try to think with logic and reason over and above your uncontrollable emotion and prejudice. It really will cut down the amount of embarrassing posts you dump over each thread.

I was up a LOT earlier than you and heard 'Trampu's' proclamation - can you read ?

Check out this article!

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/trump-suspends-travel-from-schengen-area-to-us-in-coronavirus-crisis/ (https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/trump-suspends-travel-from-schengen-area-to-us-in-coronavirus-crisis/)

BAN / Suspension - my 'mistake' for believing his words ;)

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Looking at the confirmed cases and deaths by country, we can see a disproportionate amount of cases in your beloved "Schengen nations". Yes the UK is also on here albeit much further down the list. Then if we look at the amount of direct flights from Western Europe compared with those from say Iran or Korea, we can start to build a bit of logic into any decisions made.[/quote]

How many people have been tested in the USA?  IF we paid attention to BillyB the sky fell in on his state, last week


I can already hear you thumping your keyboard with but but but.....what about Ireland blah blah blah. Well, you can read up on this again in my previous post. Ireland and the Uk are closer to the US and we do have that special relationship. Ireland even has US immigration in the tattie fields! We've not got a free pass but the US resources can focus on people who travel these routes.

I 'see' so Norway, Cyprus, L'stein, et al have got this 'pass' because they have a special relationship, too ?

THAT 'argument' fell at the very first ( unthinking') hurdle..



https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What is THAT supposed to 'prove'?..Given the US couldn't test ...







President Trump probably ignored advisers ....as usual...



I mean what a dick you are!!

Oh dear, Fail #2

Now, its not a 'ban' - just restricting the places Schengen folks can enter ...  NOT what the President announced whilst you slept ...  As I suggested ( many times) he let's his mouth run ahead of his advisers



There's bucketfuls of salty tears and bitterness right there in those 7 words alone! As soon as you wrote "probably", we all thought "you little wet fart"!!

Hmm, I expect now you know more - you'll hope this post never sees the light of day !  :coffeeread:


These words....      vvvv ....    and those of AvHdB and our resident expert in nothing ( afi)  ...  looking somewhat 'silly', now you'll realise who ARE the idiots  ..

Can you write anything half sensible or is idiot, your permanent default position? It would be nice to experience something else from your rather limited repertoire.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 12, 2020, 01:36:34 PM
Feeding the troll is not helping.
read this next line carefully.
YOU CAN"T FIX STUPID.
your guys trying to explain the obvious is painful.
he bangs away at his keyboard faster than you or any of us can type.

All major sporting leagues and events being cancelled one after another.
All concerts and major events. Some schools closing here.
Some finishing  this year online, some keeping students away 2 weeks after March break.

Our PM last week said we are over reacting, now he's acting quick.
Ironically they are testing his wife, who they believes has it.
our PM will self  quarantine  himself. Bonus for Us I think or hope LOL.

This will not stop the spread, but maybe it slows it down, flattens out the curve.
Give health professionals a bit of a break and researchers more time to find vaccines
all of this makes sense.

Any sane person realizes the less travel, the less this virus moves.
Not rocket science :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 02:27:40 PM
...and now NS1 falls over himself to prove his ignorance..

Again...these were 'Trampu's' words..

“We will be suspending all travel from Europe to the United States for the next 30 days,” the president said, specifically adding that these restrictions would not apply to the UK, without mentioning any other exemptions.

Trump’s greatest friend in the UK, Nigel Farage, applauded the drastic but necessary measures. “The UK is now being treated as an independent country,” he tweeted. The rewards of Brexit were already being reaped, in what looked like a big win for British diplomacy and the special relationship.

But the reality, once the true details of the Presidential Proclamation were released, was somewhat different.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/12/donald-trumps-eu-travel-ban-is-driven-by-politics-not-science-coronavirus? (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/12/donald-trumps-eu-travel-ban-is-driven-by-politics-not-science-coronavirus?)




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 12, 2020, 02:49:55 PM
Quote
That genetic material proceeds to “hijack the metabolism of the cell and say, in effect, ‘Don’t do your usual job. Your job now is to help me multiply and make the virus,’”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/does-coronavirus-body-120916551.html

The M.O. never changes.   :evilgrin0002: :nod:

Warm weather will not save you,

https://theconversation.com/will-warmer-weather-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-133208

March madness is kaput.   :chuckle: :bow:
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-basketball-tournaments-canceled-due-to-coronavirus-201905232.html

Quote
“I am physically tired because the protective devices are bad,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nurse-italy-coronavirus-picture-113507236.html

I worked in a lab which required a lot of protective gear (googles, respirator, ear muff, gown) to prevent inhalation of granite particles and dust.  It got uncomfortable after 1/2 hour of donning it all on.   :rolleye0009:

Quote
“Kim Jong Un doesn’t need a mask, of course, since he is immortal,”
As for Kim not wearing a mask, “I suspect his reason is the same as Donald Trump’s,” says David Straub, the retired diplomat. That’s “to show that he is not worried about the virus and that he himself is a tough guy.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-jong-un-responds-coronavirus-092648583.html

So it is all just hype.   :duh: (:)

Quote
Menachery found the older mice’s fatalities were strongly related to not just weakness in their immune systems but also a “disregulation” that caused their immune systems to overreact to the Sars coronavirus. That’s similar to how humans die of infections from the new coronavirus, called Sars-CoV-2.
“It’s the aggressive response from their immune system that is damaging them, even more than the infection itself,” Menachery said. “It’s like police responding to a misdemeanour with a Swat team crashing through the door.”

Quote
“If it bears out that kids are less prone to infection, then I suspect there’s something more mechanical than immunological going on,” said Esper, the paediatric infection expert. “Something about the receptors in children’s bodies or their lungs is interfering with the virus’ ability to attach itself.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-children-immune-system-covid-19-outbreak-latest-a9393256.html

So being mature and fully developed is NOT a good thing after all.   (:) :chuckle: :sick0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 03:42:29 PM
WHO doesn't use the word "Pandemic" often. They reserve that word for worldwide epidemics that threaten humanity. Let's do a little comparison with the COVID-19 pandemic and the last designated WHO pandemic, the 2009 Swine Flu.

Swine Flu in Europe had  500,000 infected  and  caused 2889 Deaths which means they had 497,111 Recoveries. Mortality rate is not calculated by infection. Mortality rate is deaths divided by deaths plus recoveries so basically it's 2889 divided by (2889 + 487,111). The confusion comes from deaths plus recoveries also equals total infections when an epidemic is over and people think infections is what needs to be used in calculating mortality rate but not true and during an event where people are currently fighting for their lives, using infections into the calculation definitely waters down mortality rate estimates as we see from the reports on COVID-19.  Since everybody is finished with their battle swine flu in Europe, the final mortality rate is .57% which is 5.7 times more deadlier than the flu which kills .1% of the people it infects. 1 out of every 173 people in Europe who caught the swine flu died. Normal flu we experience kills 1 out of every 1000 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_Europe

Italy, now with a large sample pool of COVID -19, has 15,113 infected, 1016 deaths, and 1258 recoveries. To calculate the current mortality rate of Italy deaths(1016) divided by (deaths(1016) plus recoveries(1258)) which translate to a 44.7% mortality rate killing close to 1 out of every 2 people in Italy and is 447 times more dangerous than the flu and 78.4 times more dangerous than the swine flu. Hopefully with more numbers coming it, death rate will go down but don't expect it to go down to swine flu pandemic numbers.

Even if someone doesn't understand numbers, they have eyes. Just look at the World crashing down around you in a very short time this virus showed up. This is just the beginning of COVID-19. It hasn't reached the amount of infections the Swine flu pandemic achieved yet but if it does, you will see quarantines implemented in a way that makes the Italian quarantine look like a joke. The world wasn't crashing during the swine flu pandemic. Not all pandemics are equal and COVID-19 kills people at a much higher rate than the flu and swine flu.

The high mortality rate is scary but what is more scary is that this coronavirus is related to the cold virus and humans have tried for over a 100 years to create a suitable vaccine for the cold viruses and failed. At least with the Swine flu virus, it was comforting to know that discovering a swine flu vaccine was possible and only a matter of time in getting it out to the public. Governments will tell you they are working on a vaccine. After a few years pass by, if they haven't found one, they probably never will. We get colds 2-3 times a year. With no cure, we may have to live with COVID-19 multiple times a year forever just like we live with cold viruses. Periodic quarantining may be a big part of our lives from here on out. The only solution we have now is locking down people, finding those infected, quarantine those people separate from the population and eradicate this virus from the human body so we don't have to live with it anymore. If we miss just ONE person and they go around infecting others, we will continue to have outbreaks. Fighting COVID-19 will cost lives and our economies but it must be done. Trying to do this cheap will cost humanity more in the end.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 12, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
Billy, you are using a lot of very emotive language.

Lets get some perspective here and realise that for most people who are relatively strong and healthy this will exhibit itself as no more than a dose of flu or a bad cold with a bit of a cough.

Like any dose of the lurgy, it will pass reasonably quickly, we will build our immunity and all move on.

The deaths up to now are mostly old people, people with compromised immune systems and people with other underlying health issues. Quite frankly this is Darwinism in action. Its nature. It happens.

I dont expect me or any of mine will drop off the twig if it visits our house. If Im confined to bed drinking cups of tea, enjoying wifeys cooking and watching old episodes of Frasier for a couple of weeks while coughing and taking cough medicine and Paracetamol, its not the end of the world.  :coffeeread:

That said, we are all quite fanatical about using antibacterial wipes, gel and washing our hands anyway.

Anybody married to an FSU woman will be familiar with shoes at the door, frantic hand washing and pretty decent and hygienic household practices.

We already wore Chinese style masks on planes and took bottles of hand gel to restaurants. So our behaviour does not really change very much. Just that now people dont think we are crazy eccentrics any more. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 04:26:45 PM
Lets get some perspective here and realise that for most people who are relatively strong and healthy this will exhibit itself as no more than a dose of flu or a bad cold with a bit of a cough.

Like any dose of the lurgy, it will pass reasonably quickly, we will build our immunity and all move on.


Chinese report 20% of their deaths are people under 60. Old people tend to die more often due to colds, flus, biological weapons, and bullets than young people. That is normal so this coronavirus is no different. What is different is this coronavirus is much more lethal to all age groups across the board compared to the flu and other hazards.

If you get the virus, you may build an immunity to it but you won't have an immunity to the next strain. In a matter of months, this virus has two strains. It evolves fast.

Even if you don't believe it's dangerous, just look around you what governments, businesses and schools are doing. What you are seeing now in a matter of months didn't happen during previous pandemics that lasted years. Everybody has been underreporting how dangerous this virus is. Ignore what they say. Pay attention to what they do to have a better understanding of the virus.



I haven't been to the doctor in years. My wife pushed me to make an appointment for a checkup. I made an appointment at the VA hospital in Seattle over a month ago and I promised to tell everyone about my what I see in the hospital there tomorrow but it's not going to happen.

I usually get calls from a computer reminding me of my appointment or telling me where the coronavirus testing is located in the hospital. Today I get a call from a human. The lady recommends I cancel but will keep the appointment if I insist. I ask what is the importance for cancelling. She said its for their safety but I feel it's also for patients safety and she's not telling people because she doesn't want to scare them. I told her I'm healthy, don't have anything contagious to hurt the staff, and just going in for a checkup so I'll keep the appointment. The lady proceeds to ask me a series of questions pertaining to my condition and where I been lately. Call was on speakerphone so wife runs over and tells me to cancel. I cancel.

Wife who's college quarter has been cancelled told me her teacher is currently working at the VA hospital. They have confirmed COVID-19 cases there and her teacher has to wear full protective gear. Seems like the hospital is getting busy and is needing people to cancel appointments. My wife told me they are injecting patients with high doses of Vitamin C as part of the therapeutic treatment. I went out to buy high doses of Vitamin C a few days ago. Shelves were nearly empty but I got two bottles and my wife ordered real Vitamin C online. If you guys still have money left over after buying toilet paper, go out and buy Vitamin C to boost your immune system.

An Italian nurse talks about her work. It's a good read. Medical professionals are the front line soldiers in the fight against the virus.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/an-italian-coronavirus-nurse-posted-a-picture-of-her-face-bruised-from-wearing-a-mask-to-highlight-how-much-health-workers-are-struggling/ar-BB115QWS?ocid=spartanntp

Seattle's sex industry is getting decimated. Clients are cancelling appointments and there's no new clients to replace them. I see a lot of financial hardships coming for people in certain industries.

http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/seattle-sex-workers-covid19-coronavirus-094500177.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 12, 2020, 04:35:18 PM
As some know, I have some stuff manufactured in China. One of the factories I use in Zhejiang province was recently closed down along with all the others there. Now they are open and working again.

One of the girls there sent me a short video of everybody working again, here is a still from the video.

[attachimg=1 width=300]

Everybody is sensibly in masks.

Yesterday some advance boxes arrived with TNT from that factory. They took about 48 hours from China. The boxes were all shrink-wrapped. The virus can live for about a week on non-porous surfaces, right?

Nobody was rushing to open those boxes. We sprayed them with Dettol before we did.  :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 12, 2020, 04:38:09 PM
Billy, you are using a lot of very emotive language.

Lets get some perspective here and realise that for most people who are relatively strong and healthy this will exhibit itself as no more than a dose of flu or a bad cold with a bit of a cough.

Like any dose of the lurgy, it will pass reasonably quickly, we will build our immunity and all move on.

The deaths up to now are mostly old people, people with compromised immune systems and people with other underlying health issues. Quite frankly this is Darwinism in action. Its nature. It happens.

I dont expect me or any of mine will drop off the twig if it visits our house. If Im confined to bed drinking cups of tea, enjoying wifeys cooking and watching old episodes of Frasier for a couple of weeks while coughing and taking cough medicine and Paracetamol, its not the end of the world.  :coffeeread:

That said, we are all quite fanatical about using antibacterial wipes, gel and washing our hands anyway.

Anybody married to an FSU woman will be familiar with shoes at the door, frantic hand washing and pretty decent and hygienic household practices.

We already wore Chinese style masks on planes and took bottles of hand gel to restaurants. So our behaviour does not really change very much. Just that now people dont think we are crazy eccentrics any more. :chuckle:

Watching old episodes of Frasier - a must do on a sick day, love it!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 12, 2020, 04:48:04 PM
Watching old episodes of Frasier - a must do on a sick day, love it!!

They’re all on 4 More or one of the other Channel 4 channels on Free Sat. Two a day. Set ‘record series’ and you have 100 episodes to choose from before you know it.

It’s not unheard-of for me to pass the school run to Wifey on a quiet day when I have awarded myself a late start, and slide back to bed for an hour after breakfast with a brew to watch a couple.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 12, 2020, 07:52:27 PM
Trump Was Right to Shut the Gates on Plague Pit Europe

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/12/delingpole-trump-was-right-to-shut-the-gates-on-plague-pit-europe/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 12, 2020, 07:57:37 PM
Chinese Scientists Find MORE Evidence That Coronavirus (a.k.a. COVID-19) Discriminates By Race

The hypothesis that there are race and ethnic differences in susceptibility to the Covid-19 virus continues to strengthen. People of all races and nationalities can get it, of course, but it does not look like an Equal Opportunity disease. The question is why. Last week, I looked at studies from China that found specific racial differences in receptor genes in the lungs which might help to explain the patterns we are observing. But it is more than likely, in that races and ethnicities are genetic clusters evolved to different environments, that this difference is not the only factor involved.

Another possibility: race differences in the ability to maintain an optimum level of Vitamin C in the blood. This has been explored in detail by the health journalist Bill Sardi [Health Inheritance: Asians Have Lower Vitamin C Blood Levels; More Prone To Coronavirus & Other Infections, LewRockwell.com, March 7, 2020].

Maintaining healthy Vitamin C levels is extremely important. Vitamin C is an anti-oxidant, crucial because oxidization results in damage to cells and, so, a reduced ability to fight off infection. It is also crucial in repairing cells and maintaining a strong immune system. Vitamin C is obtained from certain kinds of fruit (most obviously oranges) and some vegetables, such as broccoli. People who  don’t get enough of it are prone to cancer, heart problems, brain degeneration and, in extreme cases, scurvy.

However, maintaining Vitamin C in the blood isn’t solely a matter of diet. Genetics plays its part as well. Some people can maintain a high level of Vitamin C without eating that much fruit at all. It depends on the form of Haptoglobin which they carry: Hp 1-1, Hp 2-1, or Hp 2-2.

Haptoglobin (HAPTO-G) is a protein in the blood that binds to haemoglobin, this being the red protein in blood cells that carries oxygen and iron. Haptoglobin destroys excess iron, limits the amount of (potentially damaging) unbound iron, and reduces the amount of iron lost in the kidneys.

Hp 2-2 doesn’t bind as well as the other two. The result of this is excess iron in the blood. This excess iron oxidates—rusts—in response to oxygen, setting off a process that also causes the Vitamin C to oxidate. This reduces the efficacy of the Vitamin C, causing the person with this form of HAPTO-G to have a less effective immune system.

There are race differences in the distribution of Hp 2-2. Chinese people are by far the most likely to carry Hp 2-2: approximately 56%. [Serum vitamin C concentration is influenced by haptoglobin polymorphism and iron status in Chinese, By Na Na et al., Clinica Chimica Acta, 2006]. People who carry Hp 2-2 are three times more likely to be Vitamin C deficient than people who carry the other two forms.

The implication, of course, is that one way of fighting this virus is to consume lots of Vitamin C-packed fruit. This is obvious advice, but it helps us, potentially, to understand why Covid-19 has been such a problem in China. For genetic reasons, the Chinese carry a lot of iron in their blood, but this makes them deficient in Vitamin C.

On this basis, we wouldn’t expect Covid-19 to be as damaging in Europe or the U.S. as it is in China.

We also shouldn’t be surprised that areas of the U.S. that are particularly hard hit by Covid-19, such as New Rochelle, NY, a square mile of which was recently quarantined, have a significant Asian population (4.2% in 2010). [Cuomo Announces 1-Mile ‘Containment Area’ In New Rochelle, Closes Large Gathering Places There For 2 Weeks, CBS, March 10, 2020]. We shouldn’t be surprised that Harvard College—which is 23% (mainly East) Asian—has decided to close and offer classes exclusively online for the time being.

We also shouldn’t be surprised by the extent to which Covid-19 has, and hasn’t, flared up outside China. It doesn’t appear to have been a big problem in Africa yet, a fact which many commentators—who can’t accept the existence of genetic race differences in anything other than skin color—have found very confusing.

But, then, Covid-19  shouldn’t be a big problem in Africa, because according to a huge meta-analysis [Haptoglobin: a review of the major allele frequencies worldwide and their association with diseases, by Kymberley Carter & Mark Worwood, International Journal of Laboratory Hematology, 2007], roughly 50% of Sub-Saharan Africans carry the vitamin C-helpful Hp 1 and in some African countries it’s as high as 70%. Studies from the United States reveal that 41% of Whites carry Hp 1, compared to 55% of Blacks, and 52% of Hispanics, but only 31% of Asians.

In the Middle East, only 28% of Muslim Iranians carry Hp 1. And only 30% of Israelis carry it.

Could this be why the Israelis (who are acutely aware of genetics) reacted so decisively to Covid-19? All new arrivals to Israel now face 2 weeks’ quarantine [Coronavirus: Israel to bring in 14-day quarantine for all arrivals, BBC News, March 9, 2020].

(Indeed, could this be true of Jews generally? Covid-19 reportedly broke out in New Rochelle, the U.S. city where a “containment area” has been set up, at a modern Orthodox synagogue, many of whose members are now infected; Westchester County, where New Rochelle is located, was reportedly 17 percent Jewish in 2011 [Jewish community caught inside coronavirus ‘containment zone,’ by Aiden Pink, The Forward, March 10, 2020. No less than 29 cases have just been confirmed at one nearby Jewish school, at a time when fewer than 1,000 cases were known in the entire U.S. [New York Jewish school says 29 students, staff diagnosed with virus, by Ben Harris, The Times Of Israel, March 11, 2020]).

The differences in the frequency of Hp 1 are small within Europe, but its frequency is among the lowest in Italy, where it is 36%. It is 40% in Scotland, the highest in Europe. 

Now, of course, the key question is the population frequency of Hp 2-2, which is bad for vitamin C retention.  Unfortunately, I cannot find a study that includes this information for lots of countries. However, within Italy, though Hp 1 is 36% nationwide, it is only 30% in northern Italy [Distribution of Haptoglobin Subtypes in Continental Italy and Sardinia, by Claudio Santor et al., Human Heredity, 1983], which has been worst affected by the virus.

It is incredible that this vital information is not discussed in the Main Stream Media and by the health authorities, to the point where the race of victims is simply being not being reported. We have so strongly conditioned to not think about race differences, by decades of indoctrination and intimidation, that we can’t even do so during what is turning into a very serious international crisis.

To repeat: if Covid-19 is not an Equal Opportunity disease, that means our race-denying Ruling Class is frightening most people too much—and not warning some people enough. This will not merely cause unnecessary chaos—it will cost lives.

https://vdare.com/articles/coronavirus-and-vitamin-c-is-this-why-israel-closed-its-borders?scroll_to_paragraph=6



###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 08:10:32 PM

Back in the old days Vitamin C was used to prevent and treat Scurvy. It works. Today it's used for treating and preventing the common cold according to the link below. Remember what I said about this coronavirus being related to the cold virus? It makes sense what my wife said about the doctors at the hospital are giving super infusions of Vitamin C to coronavirus patients. I call a friend of mine who was a nurse. He said Vitamin C does work but mileage may vary. Some people will benefit from it more than others. I recommend everybody buy some since it'll improve your immunity system and good for treating colds since this new virus is related to the cold virus.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1001/vitamin-c-ascorbic-acid

My wife's college just sent out an email that one of the students has COVID-19
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2020, 08:53:54 PM

If you guys get the virus and survive, don't expect to be a 100% healthy human being ever again. Loss of lung function may occur, especially if you contract pneumonia. Those who survive and acquire a lifetime of health problems will continue to be a burden on the health care system.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3074988/coronavirus-some-recovered-patients-may-have
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 09:47:26 PM
Trump Was Right to Shut the Gates on Plague Pit Europe

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/12/delingpole-trump-was-right-to-shut-the-gates-on-plague-pit-europe/

'breitbart ?  'factual' news ?..

Did they report that as soon as 'Trampu'  finished speaking how the pre ( official)  opening futures markets markets tanked?..





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 12, 2020, 09:51:48 PM
[Trump has taken a prudent step. Our liberal poster expects perfection.

Perfection doesn’t exist, but common sense does. Thankfully our Prez has it.

Yet ANOTHER poster that is blind to reason...

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Proportionally, Ireland ( rep. of) has it worse than the UK and closed all schools, Unis and public buildings from today.

'Trampu' probably ignored advisers ....as usual...

Read what Rosco wrote. Then read it again. Write it down in pen on paper. Study it like you’re studying for a very difficult exam. No not a rectal exam although obviously that’s where your tiny brain is located. Instead of a prostate gland the Good Lord put your moldy tiny brain in there.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 12, 2020, 10:03:49 PM
Cornfed,

I realise you are set in your ways and read selectively..

WHY do you feel the need to prove it ?

Your 'hero' f'd up and told America and the world he was banning flights from Europe ( except the UK ) .. the S&P futures out of hours trading had to be stopped as the market promptly fell more than five percent ..


I read what Rosco, wrote .. HE hadn't understood what 'Trampu'  had SAID he was going to do .. and what actually happened .. ( Shengen flights to be routed to 15 US airports, only )

MY point that this allows Schengen passport holders to arrive via th US, Ireland, etc., still stands ... Hell, Norwegian will probably restart many flights ..





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 13, 2020, 01:15:41 AM
I wouldn't trust anything Moldy says about the virus.  Look how he got his STD, sure wasn't by being safe.  Normally I'd put a laughing face but this ain't no joke.  I hope he takes all precautions to not spread it but knowing him he'd be choking his chicken first chance he gets.  Judging by all the pics he posts we know which head leads hims around.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 13, 2020, 02:17:42 AM
Cornfed,

I realise you are set in your ways and read selectively..

WHY do you feel the need to prove it ?

Your 'hero' f'd up and told America and the world he was banning flights from Europe ( except the UK ) .. the S&P futures out of hours trading had to be stopped as the market promptly fell more than five percent ..


I read what Rosco, wrote .. HE hadn't understood what 'Trampu'  had SAID he was going to do .. and what actually happened .. ( Shengen flights to be routed to 15 US airports, only )

MY point that this allows Schengen passport holders to arrive via th US, Ireland, etc., still stands ... Hell, Norwegian will probably restart many flights ..

Christ. All. Mighty.  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 13, 2020, 02:22:01 AM
Edit - Moby can’t even use quotes properly so please don’t confuse his ramblings as my opinion.

Mines at the very bottom.



(Sighs) Oh dear Mystic, perhaps try to think with logic and reason over and above your uncontrollable emotion and prejudice. It really will cut down the amount of embarrassing posts you dump over each thread.

I was up a LOT earlier than you and heard 'Trampu's' proclamation - can you read ?

Check out this article!

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/trump-suspends-travel-from-schengen-area-to-us-in-coronavirus-crisis/ (https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/trump-suspends-travel-from-schengen-area-to-us-in-coronavirus-crisis/)

BAN / Suspension - my 'mistake' for believing his words ;)

If the measures were 'prudent'...why only ban flights from Schengen nations?

Looking at the confirmed cases and deaths by country, we can see a disproportionate amount of cases in your beloved "Schengen nations". Yes the UK is also on here albeit much further down the list. Then if we look at the amount of direct flights from Western Europe compared with those from say Iran or Korea, we can start to build a bit of logic into any decisions made.

How many people have been tested in the USA?  IF we paid attention to BillyB the sky fell in on his state, last week


I can already hear you thumping your keyboard with but but but.....what about Ireland blah blah blah. Well, you can read up on this again in my previous post. Ireland and the Uk are closer to the US and we do have that special relationship. Ireland even has US immigration in the tattie fields! We've not got a free pass but the US resources can focus on people who travel these routes.

I 'see' so Norway, Cyprus, L'stein, et al have got this 'pass' because they have a special relationship, too ?

THAT 'argument' fell at the very first ( unthinking') hurdle..



https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What is THAT supposed to 'prove'?..Given the US couldn't test ...







President Trump probably ignored advisers ....as usual...



I mean what a dick you are!!

Oh dear, Fail #2

Now, its not a 'ban' - just restricting the places Schengen folks can enter ...  NOT what the President announced whilst you slept ...  As I suggested ( many times) he let's his mouth run ahead of his advisers



There's bucketfuls of salty tears and bitterness right there in those 7 words alone! As soon as you wrote "probably", we all thought "you little wet fart"!!

Hmm, I expect now you know more - you'll hope this post never sees the light of day !  :coffeeread:


These words....      vvvv ....    and those of AvHdB and our resident expert in nothing ( afi)  ...  looking somewhat 'silly', now you'll realise who ARE the idiots  ..

Can you write anything half sensible or is idiot, your permanent default position? It would be nice to experience something else from your rather limited repertoire.
[/quote]

NS1 is bang on the money here. Whether I’m wasting time feeding a troll or debating with the most simple man in the room, it’s a lost cause.

You’re a lost cause man.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 13, 2020, 02:28:05 AM
Watching old episodes of Frasier - a must do on a sick day, love it!!

They’re all on 4 More or one of the other Channel 4 channels on Free Sat. Two a day. Set ‘record series’ and you have 100 episodes to choose from before you know it.

It’s not unheard-of for me to pass the school run to Wifey on a quiet day when I have awarded myself a late start, and slide back to bed for an hour after breakfast with a brew to watch a couple.  :coffeeread:

I’ve been there myself!

It’s definitely one of the more witty sitcoms to have come from the US. It just scares me when I realise how old the episodes are nowadays. Time waits for no man.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 13, 2020, 02:51:52 AM

NS1 is bang on the money here. Whether I’m wasting time feeding a troll or debating with the most simple man in the room, it’s a lost cause.

You’re a lost cause man.

As you ( not just you ) refuse to see / admit that 'Trampu's' speech was what I commented on I'm wondering if the collective need to be 'right' ( even when wrong) isn't some sort of indicator pre-pubescent  ( failed ) 'bullying' ...    :coffeeread:


Please don't 'worry' on my part - the 'bullies' are the one's with the problem..  !   I've never been the sort to let a 'herd mentality' alter my stance when I KNOW I'm right .....




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 13, 2020, 03:07:05 AM
Moldy's "loophole" doesn't even work.  He can't read.

I found this on a travel blog:

"A lot have wondered if you could fly from the Schengen area to the US via London, for example, since the UK is excluded.

For foreigners this ban isn’t based on your nationality, but rather based on whether you’ve been to the Schengen area in the past 14 days.

For example, if you have dual citizenship (both non-US), could you use one passport to enter the Schengen area, and a different passport to enter the US, so it looks like you haven’t been to the Schengen area?"

It doesn't matter if you reroute through the UK. If it shows you've been in the Schengen area then you won't be permitted to go the the USA.

Mooldy thinks he's smart but he ain't. :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: redroo on March 13, 2020, 03:15:27 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   :snivel:

F1 cancelled in Australia at the last moment.
We thought they would go ahead without fans, but one member of the circus testing positive seems to have been the last straw.
Looks like Bahrain and Vietnam will be off as well. I can't see the season starting until your northern summer now.
Stay safe everyone
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 13, 2020, 03:40:19 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   :snivel:

F1 cancelled in Australia at the last moment.
We thought they would go ahead without fans, but one member of the circus testing positive seems to have been the last straw.
Looks like Bahrain and Vietnam will be off as well. I can't see the season starting until your northern summer now.
Stay safe everyone

A complete cluster-f*ck

Hamilton was asking 'Why is this going ahead'?, on Thursday when it was clear folks were dropping like flies ..

F1 and FIA should hang their heads in shame .. more worried about $ than the safety of team members (


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 13, 2020, 04:00:06 AM
F-1 shutting down, basically all major sports, concerts and events are done.
Until they get a handle on this. Who knows how long that will be.

Funny Wife has found Fraser yet, she likes Sienfelt, Friends and Big Bang.
Watch old re-runs are good, those were classic comedies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 13, 2020, 05:42:35 AM
How the Italians are coping with self-isolation ..

https://video.repubblica.it/dossier/coronavirus-wuhan-2020/coronavirus-nelle-citta-deserte-si-canta-insieme-alle-finestre-l-effetto-e-struggente/355736/356302

A blog from an 'imaginary friend' who is married to her Italian hubby .. We studied together over 40 years ago

day 1 of virtual complete lockdown..I take my dog for a walk..just about the only thing I CAN do, unless I'm out buying food or meds...or working..although most are working from home now.
It felt very strange seeing all shops (except food shops), bars and  restaurants shut down and shuttered ( but the tobacconists are still open ??).
Walking around the large park in the lovely fresh air I met a few people...some veered away from me dramatically, giving me a wide berth (some 5/6 metres) and many had masks on. Those who didn't, frowned or scowled as they passed ( does smiling spread the virus??).
It all felt very surreal
But the good news is that dogs are exempt from the anti- contagion precautions..they are still shoving their noses up each others' butts to their hearts' content....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 13, 2020, 07:11:00 AM
That said, we are all quite fanatical about using antibacterial wipes, gel and washing our hands anyway.

Anybody married to an FSU woman will be familiar with shoes at the door, frantic hand washing and pretty decent and hygienic household practices.

Not only these, but you forgot to mention, also, the daily inspection when going out of the front door of the house ..... Twelve years already........ and it's too much!

 :bow: tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 13, 2020, 07:49:27 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   :snivel:

F1 cancelled in Australia at the last moment.
We thought they would go ahead without fans, but one member of the circus testing positive seems to have been the last straw.
Looks like Bahrain and Vietnam will be off as well. I can't see the season starting until your northern summer now.
Stay safe everyone
Aww, and Netherlands prepared for this for the first time in 35 years (Zandvoort) Hope it won't be cancelled but its a very slim hope
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 08:28:10 AM
MY point that this allows Schengen passport holders to arrive via th US, Ireland, etc., still stands ... Hell, Norwegian will probably restart many flights ..


I told you elsewhere that wasn't possible but you continue to talk BS here. You're not only an idiot, you remain deceptive even after being educated on the truth. US border patrol will deny entry into America for individuals who been in certain European countries 14 days prior to their arrive to America. A German citizen or non citizen that was in Germany cant circumvent the rules by flying to Ireland and then taking a flight from Ireland into America.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 13, 2020, 08:41:21 AM
Hysteria is in overdrive in my neck of the woods now, with 2 ladies not long back from an Asian cruise, just been diagnosed. They were attending yoga, swimming, coffee mornings and the like since their return.

A mate of mine also had to attend a screening today after having corona type symptoms. He’ll find out tomorrow but if it’s positive, i’ll be self isolated too having been both in Italy with him 2 weeks ago and in his company last weekend.

Fun and games.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 13, 2020, 08:43:20 AM
MY point that this allows Schengen passport holders to arrive via th US, Ireland, etc., still stands ... Hell, Norwegian will probably restart many flights ..


I told you elsewhere that wasn't possible but you continue to talk BS here. You're not only an idiot, you remain deceptive even after being educated on the truth. US border patrol will deny entry into America for individuals who been in certain European countries 14 days prior to their arrive to America. A German citizen or non citizen that was in Germany cant circumvent the rules by flying to Ireland and then taking a flight from Ireland into America.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation

Yup that’s mystic alright.

Multiply his lunacy over every thread and subject he wrecks and there we have it.....the forum idiot who annoys everyone he meets.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 13, 2020, 09:36:40 AM
US border patrol will deny entry into America for individuals who been in certain European countries 14 days prior to their arrive to America. A German citizen or non citizen that was in Germany cant circumvent the rules by flying to Ireland and then taking a flight from Ireland into America.

I call nonsense on that. The US wouldn't know where someone had been. There are no passport stamps around the EU or into the UK for them. All you'd have to say was you spent the last month in the UK or wherever you were flying from. Nothing to stop a German driving to Ireland or coming to the UK through the tunnel and taking a flight from there that I can see.

Data is recorded in and out of the UK, but it isnt recorded around the EU as there are no borders around most of it.

Moby for example, could easily have spent the last month ingesting viruses in Italy, come to the UK and fly to the US, certainly on a second passport. 

The US measures are only aimed at stemming travel not at stopping it. The link says family members are OK, which is daft as family members are OK to go to the US full of viruses but Lithuanians (where there was 1 case IIRC) aren't. Plenty of people will slip under the radar. But it will reduce numbers.

Quote
(d)  An alien who circumvents the application of this proclamation through fraud, willful misrepresentation of a material fact, or illegal entry shall be a priority for removal by the Department of Homeland Security.

This is laughable. Owing to the amount of illegals in the US, we know the removal process isn't too hot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on March 13, 2020, 09:47:47 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   :snivel:

F1 cancelled in Australia at the last moment.
We thought they would go ahead without fans, but one member of the circus testing positive seems to have been the last straw.
Looks like Bahrain and Vietnam will be off as well. I can't see the season starting until your northern summer now.
Stay safe everyone

Yep Bahrain and Vietnam are off now, just announced, first race will be May at earliest

I cancelled a holiday to Austria earlier this week, due to leave in less than two weeks time, also have a couple of foreign holidays booked for May and June, probably going to have to cancel those also or try and move them to later in the year at best.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 13, 2020, 10:17:47 AM
Cornfed,

I realise you are set in your ways and read selectively..

WHY do you feel the need to prove it ?

Your 'hero' f'd up and told America and the world he was banning flights from Europe ( except the UK ) .. the S&P futures out of hours trading had to be stopped as the market promptly fell more than five percent ..


I read what Rosco, wrote .. HE hadn't understood what 'Trampu'  had SAID he was going to do .. and what actually happened .. ( Shengen flights to be routed to 15 US airports, only )

MY point that this allows Schengen passport holders to arrive via th US, Ireland, etc., still stands ... Hell, Norwegian will probably restart many flights ..

Christ. All. Mighty.  :'(

I suspect he’s got onset dementia. Is there any other possibility for being so thick?

Moby’s childhood swing set.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 13, 2020, 10:19:41 AM
Media hysteria.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 13, 2020, 11:04:56 AM

I told you elsewhere that wasn't possible but you continue to talk BS here.

You'll 'forgive' me , but I must have 'missed' any valid counter .. as to BS: from your 'mortality rates' to 'patriotic support' for how your President is 'defending you' from this pandemic.... ( a word you needed explaining as to it's meaning ) you are THE fora expert in posting mostly NONSENSE on this thread's subject ..



You're not only an idiot, you remain deceptive even after being educated on the truth. US border patrol will deny entry into America for individuals who been in certain European countries 14 days prior to their arrive to America. A German citizen or non citizen that was in Germany cant circumvent the rules by flying to Ireland and then taking a flight from Ireland into America.

'Really'?  ....   :coffeeread:  I have pointed out how it IS possible and asked the the question as to how the US border authorities would know - given certain nations are sharing the same info that the UK / IRL might ..

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation

AGAIN... as you seem to 'insist' that I can't be reading YOUR posts ..... This statement is some what 'at variance' with your Presidents earlier announcement  - which I posted soon after and 'so many'  have 'objected to' ..

"we will be suspending all travel from Europe to the US for the next 30 days"  ..The ( real) IDIOT even intimated goods ...  causing huge falls in markets..

That that variance occurs at all shows at serious lack of cohesion and once again, your 'leader' F*CKED UP  ...shooting off it mouth.. having to eat his words ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 13, 2020, 11:42:09 AM
Something to be said for Chinese, Russian and Saudi media management rules.

Too bad God King Emporer Trump doesn't just declare a National Security Emergency and round up all the Main Stream and Social media C Suite execs and mobyish liberal Marxist news readers and send them to Chill out for a few years in the lovely Komunist Paradise of Guantanamo Cuba - likely more relaxing than a Corona virus cruise ship.

###r
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 13, 2020, 11:52:31 AM
If people would limit non essential travel, don't go where you don't need to.
Also anyone traveling from high risk areas, self quarantined.
 the decisions being made wouldn't be as drastic. People being people cause this crap and then folks
wonder why the economy is tanking, really ??

Now people here are buying all the toilet paper and stocking up like its armageddon  :o

Then you got idiots like Moby, saying you can get around it, to go to USA.
the point is don't. Stay home. don't spread it. Let the world get in front of this
instead of chasing it. Trying to circumvent for self purposes is selfish to say the least.

Maybe you and I will be fine when we get it, what about older people or people with
underlying conditions. Shit, use your brains folks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 13, 2020, 11:55:10 AM
Rosco,

For someone professing greater intelligence / sanity than I ..

Why are you STILL unable to accept that I called BS on the original statement by 'Trampu' on 'EU citizens ' entry to the US ... ( including his laughable comment of 'Everything' - so the markets thought that meant goods ..

Then we had the actual govt rules which bore no resemblance to 'Trampu's brainfart announcement - which you decided I was commenting on ..


Finally, we had our 'leader' pointing out the VERY same points I've been making re the flaws in monitoring where Schengen nationals have been ..and where I could have been ..


Sorry to hear you're going to have to self-isolate .. I hope it will give you time to reflect on understanding when some folks know better than you on matters immigration/  qualifications stds ... AND have plenty of practical knowledge on same - to the extent some folks even consulted the 'idiot' - it having been suggested by our 'leader'  ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 13, 2020, 01:54:12 PM
Markets roar back on aggressive All of USA national emergency response to the Corona Virus outbreak... Rumors UK may be added to No Try No Fly list due to all the artfull dodgers and Mobsters flying through there.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/futures-stock-market-coronavirus-concerns.html

And...

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/trump-coronavirus-national-emergency/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 02:02:25 PM

I call nonsense on that. The US wouldn't know where someone had been. There are no passport stamps around the EU or into the UK for them. All you'd have to say was you spent the last month in the UK or wherever you were flying from. Nothing to stop a German driving to Ireland or coming to the UK through the tunnel and taking a flight from there that I can see.


Trump's proclamation said "(c)  The Secretary of Homeland Security may establish standards and procedures to ensure the application of this proclamation at and between all United States ports of entry."

HS will figure out how people will circumvent the laws and take measures to prevent it. One such rule will most likely be burden of proof lies with the person trying to enter into America. If a German citizen drove to Ireland and flew into America and said he wasn't in Germany for over two weeks but lived in Ireland for the last two weeks, border patrol agents may ask for proof that he stayed in Ireland the last two weeks. Hotel receipt with date posted could be evidence. Receipts from restaurants, etc....

If you can think of a way to circumvent the rules, they can think of it too and apply measures against the various ways to trick them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 13, 2020, 02:51:59 PM
Quote
Shit, use your brains folks

That's why they are buying all that toilet paper.  To treat their brain farts.   :chuckle:  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 13, 2020, 03:28:25 PM
Quote
•People who recover from the coronavirus can still be left with substantially reduced lung functions, Hong Kong Hospital Authority have found after observing the first wave of discharged patients

https://www.yahoo.com/news/people-fully-recover-coronavirus-left-103917303.html

Being exposed can be a bad thing.  Viruses embed themselves inside your body and can reactivate at any time.   :sick0012: :scared0005: :bow:

Quote
"It can't be said that the announcement of a pandemic would have no impact... But I think cancellation is unthinkable,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tokyo-governor-says-cancelling-olympics-unthinkable-023743261--oly.html

We are talking billions here.  Not chump change.   (:) :money: :money: :money: :money: :money:

Quote
Patients with severe cases typically develop fluid in their lungs, similar to those with standard pneumonia. That fluid can be detected on a CT scan, where it shows up in the form of white patches that doctors call "ground glass."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-diagnosing-coronavirus-patients-looking-003200596.html

You are being converted on a molecular basis.  From one mutation to another.   :evilgrin0002: :scared0005: :sick0012:

Quote
His wife was sitting in the same row as me and mentioned to others that he wasn't feeling well. She said he had gotten a phone call with his test results right before we had taken off, implying that he had a positive test but not actually saying it."

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/passenger-boarded-flight-testing-positive-154803290.html

What?  Me worry?    :duh: (:) :evilgrin0002: :thumbsup: tiphat :-\ :biggrin:

Quote
"Trump, suck my big fat c---," Hancher said. "Period."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/influencer-whose-visa-expired-threatened-164021154.html

You have to keep track of deadlines and important time periods.  A life that is based on followers.  :duh: :knit: :party0011:

Quote
Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch told the Deep Background podcast on February 28 that the coronavirus could affect between 40% and 70% of the world's adult population — about 3 billion people. Lipsitch noted that "40% of adults getting infected" doesn't mean 3 billion people would get severely ill or die. But it would mean that some proportion of them would have symptoms, and around 1% to 2% would die.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/multiple-experts-70-americans-could-184200310.html

Those who are not babies need to take note.   :( :o

Quote
Princess Cruises, the cruise liner forced to halt its global operations after two of its ships confirmed on-board outbreaks of the coronavirus, has now confirmed a data breach.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/princess-cruises-hobbled-coronavirus-admits-130356129.html

From bad to worse.    (:)

Quote
“Coronavirus is not flu.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/its-not-just-another-flu-doctors-warning-to-those-underestimating-coronavirus-220203586.html

This is the start of the new "super bug" age.  Infinite variety and infinite combinations.   :-\ :-[ :rolleye0009: :whist11:

Quote
"I have my sister here in bed, dead. I don't know what to do, I can't honor her like she deserves because our institutions abandoned me. I got in touch with anyone I could, I don't want to name names for now but no one was able to give me an answer."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/italy-abandoned-us-brother-trapped-230414844.html    :GRAVE:

Quote
If there's one thing certain during a pandemic, it's that hackers will use it for their own gain.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hackers-jumping-covid-19-pandemic-214151988.html

It's all about the money.    :money: :money: :money: :money:

Quote
“But it doesn’t seem like there is cross-immunity with this coronavirus as there are with the other coronaviruses,” he added. In other words, the natural defense systems in our body that help us ward off flu are unlikely to apply here.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-vs-the-flu-its-just-like-other-viruses-and-we-should-go-about-our-normal-business-right-wrong-heres-why-2020-03-09

The goal posts keep moving.  Deal with it.   :bow:

Quote
Burial pits have grown so large amid a devastating coronavirus outbreak in Qom, Iran, that they're visible from space, satellite imagery shows.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/burial-pits-irans-coronavirus-outbreak-172036490.html

 :GRAVE:

Quote
Ai said she was also censured by a hospital official, who accused her of "spreading rumors," the Post reported. She was ordered to not speak about it even to her husband and to inform her staff members that they were not permitted to publicly disclose any information about the illness.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-doctor-says-chinese-officials-212348958.html

Harmony and stability override several million dead.   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :nod:

Quote
It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinese-official-claims-us-may-brought-virus-china-021647217.html

Gotta find that scapegoat.   :nod:   I determined that the virus was placed on the panda that was sent to central China late last year.  It carried a payload that was set to go off when the animal was flown overseas after being raised here.   (:) :evilgrin0002:

Quote
Wang credited the government's early and swift action: It took advantage of public-health infrastructure and data analytics, affordable healthcare, and extensive educational outreach.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-only-47-coronavirus-cases-164918101.html

This could not be duplicated in other countries.  Too little too late.   :duh: :biggrin:

Quote
Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch told the Deep Background podcast that the coronavirus could become a pandemic that affects between 40% and 70% of the world's adult population — at least 3 billion people.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-outbreak-could-hit-3-billion-adults-harvard-expert-2020-3

That's billion with a B.  That's over 1/3 of the world population.   :eeekk: (:) :o :duh: :D :scared0005: :evilgrin0002: :bow: :sick0012: :Zzzzsleep: :snivel: :-[ :censored:



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 13, 2020, 04:00:02 PM

I call nonsense on that. The US wouldn't know where someone had been. There are no passport stamps around the EU or into the UK for them. All you'd have to say was you spent the last month in the UK or wherever you were flying from. Nothing to stop a German driving to Ireland or coming to the UK through the tunnel and taking a flight from there that I can see.


Trump's proclamation said "(c)  The Secretary of Homeland Security may establish standards and procedures to ensure the application of this proclamation at and between all United States ports of entry."

HS will figure out how people will circumvent the laws and take measures to prevent it. One such rule will most likely be burden of proof lies with the person trying to enter into America. If a German citizen drove to Ireland and flew into America and said he wasn't in Germany for over two weeks but lived in Ireland for the last two weeks, border patrol agents may ask for proof that he stayed in Ireland the last two weeks. Hotel receipt with date posted could be evidence. Receipts from restaurants, etc....

If you can think of a way to circumvent the rules, they can think of it too and apply measures against the various ways to trick them.

Ive been to the US many times. The border guards are not very bright. All they need to do is tick a box.

It will be easily circumvented by those who want to as noted above.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 13, 2020, 04:01:21 PM
Right, so shit has hit the fan here in the netherlands, and our leaders respond the same as always.

Weak and not decisive.

We are following other countries, but only about half of the measurements.

Preschool/kindergarten remains open, but highschool + universities close down physically. Classes will be held remote over internet.

Most employers that did not take responsibility themselves yet are now ordered to be working from home -if possible-.

And of course, noone is getting tested anymore. Only if you develop critical illness do they test you for corona.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 05:10:10 PM
Ive been to the US many times. The border guards are not very bright. All they need to do is tick a box.


If border guards are told a certain percentage of people will be definitely carrying deadly bombs or viruses through our borders, I think they will get smart for those events.

Right, so shit has hit the fan here in the netherlands, and our leaders respond the same as always.

Weak and not decisive.


Sh!t is going to happen in a lot of nations. Instinct is to blame our leaders but the real blame goes to China for the delay and coverup and WHO for trusting China instead of taking quicker action by warning nations to close their borders with China. We are going to pay big time with our lives and economies.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 13, 2020, 07:14:57 PM
Ive been to the US many times. The border guards are not very bright. All they need to do is tick a box.


If border guards are told a certain percentage of people will be definitely carrying deadly bombs or viruses through our borders, I think they will get smart for those events.

Right, so shit has hit the fan here in the netherlands, and our leaders respond the same as always.

Weak and not decisive.


Sh!t is going to happen in a lot of nations. Instinct is to blame our leaders but the real blame goes to China for the delay and coverup and WHO for trusting China instead of taking quicker action by warning nations to close their borders with China. We are going to pay big time with our lives and economies.

For how long was China supposed to close their borders?

It would have eventually got out, yes?

People need to get it in order to build up immunity against it. Isn’t that correct?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 13, 2020, 08:09:19 PM
For how long was China supposed to close their borders?


The city of Wuhan should've been locked down immediately and China should've followed WHO protocol by reporting they of a new dangerous virus that showed up on earth. If the lockdown of Wuhan failed, China should've locked down the whole province or nation depending how far the virus leaked out. By warning the world earlier, doctors would be aware of those who have influenza may have the new virus and would recommend quarantine for the individual instead of sending them home with medicine.

It would have eventually got out, yes?


Not necessarily. Many new viruses and bacteria showed up on earth and have been contained early. Sometimes at the individual level or community level. Sometimes it becomes an epidemic in one or a few nations but it is stopped before it becomes a pandemic. I put a link up earlier that talks about a plague bacteria was discovered in humans Nov 2019 in China. China stopped it before it spread to too many people. They failed to stop COVID-19 and refused help to defeat it. Now everybody is going to pay a big price. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on this forum lose their jobs before this is over. Hopefully none of us will become causalities.

People need to get it in order to build up immunity against it. Isn’t that correct?


IF you are able to build up an immunity to COVID-19 after getting it, your immunity system won't be able to recognize the next strain after it evolves. Viruses mutate quick. It's why you have to get a flu shot every year to be able fight the latest strain of flu that is predicted to hit us.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 14, 2020, 02:39:47 AM
BillyB Back on the 29 February 2020 I posted an interesting article and the link to the site that it was published…

No Weapon Left Behind - The American Hybrid War on China] (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28644.msg505710.html#msg5057100)

and you accused me of: "praising China" ...

Well I gave you a reply and realising talking to you is like talking to a brick wall I did not posted anymore on this thread.


Wiz, why are you praising China at a time like this? This virus showed up last year. China did nothing except to silence those who were sounding the alarm. They let it get out of control in their country and into other countries affecting lives and economies. If this problem was nipped at the bud, life would be fine. Now we have a real chance of living with this virus forever and it will alter our lives and economy forever because this virus is related to the cold virus, not the flu virus and there is no cure for the cold virus.

BillyB

Unfortunately you are so much brainwashed with your daily propaganda you are watching, that you do not have the ability, anymore, to read an article with a very different point of you and use your judgement to make your own opinion.

I will not bother making anymore comments to a brainwashed person , like you, who does not understand what he is reading...... and then comes out with the same crap propaganda as the mainstream Media of his country... The USA!

Sorry Billy here in Europe we live in a different planet from you!

Have a Nice Day!

HAVING WATCHED your DAILY amount of bullshit you post and yours efforts to muddle the water …..I think it’s time to let you know some more interesting views from the experts.
As I am not an expert, before you make any post I suggest you try to read and then answer to the points made by the EXPERTS….. and not by myself!

It would be useful to read this prior article for background:

China’s Coronavirus: A Shocking Update. Did The Virus Originate in the US? (https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196)

And here is the Latest whole Article:

(https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Screen-Shot-2020-03-11-at-10.29.57-PM.png)

Screenshot from The New York Times August 08, 2019

COVID-19: Further Evidence that the Virus Originated in the US (https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-further-evidence-virus-originated-us/5706078)

If you cannot answer to any of the serious  comments . .
then put your mask on and stop posting BULLSHIT! :fighting0025:

 :evilgrin0002:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 14, 2020, 03:17:58 AM
If you find you're become infected with the 'armchair expert on viruses'  please self-isolate .... :)   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 14, 2020, 04:03:41 AM
About air fare between the US and Europe. It is my understanding from the article that they are closing most US airports to international travel except 13 cities. That Trump is considering closing the air link between UK and Ireland and the USA in the near future. This link is mainly left to let USA people a way home from Europe and Europeans a way to get home from the USA. They want all people coming from Europe ( including USA citizens ) to quarantine for 14 days after getting here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/trumps-european-travel-restrictions-take-effect-tonight-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ar-BB119KGf

WIZ you will believe anything if it is anti USA. The origins of the is the Chinese government trying to shift the blame.

This link show what other countries are doing. Many of them are much harsher than the USA.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/third-mar-a-lago-guest-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-pentagon-halts-domestic-travel/ar-BB117JUw
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 14, 2020, 04:11:53 AM
Wiz you ain't know no virus
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 14, 2020, 08:13:06 AM

I worked in a lab which required a lot of protective gear (googles, respirator, ear muff, gown) to prevent inhalation of granite particles and dust.  It got uncomfortable after 1/2 hour of donning it all on.   :rolleye0009:


Were you working with so-called engineered stone? I assume that you were avoiding inhaling silica dust.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 08:43:50 AM

China’s Coronavirus: A Shocking Update. Did The Virus Originate in the US? (https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196)


Wiz, China admitted COVID-19 was their baby and it came from a meat market in Wuhan. They even tried to arrest whistleblowers to silence them. The failed to let WHO in their country to evaluate and with the fight against the virus. China lost control of it so all of us is going to pay big for their fukc up. If it makes you feel better America is at fault, go for it because every one of us is going to need addition comfort for the pain that is coming our way.


Flu epidemics. There is a very good chart in the middle that is educational.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza#Pandemics

The 2009-2010 swine flu was a Level 1 Pandemic. It had a case fatality rate of .03% which is three times less deadlier than the flu. The reason so many people died from swine flu is because and estimated 11-21% of the people on earth got it. Merkel figures at least half the Germans can get COVID-19 if it isn't stopped soon and that's just in her country.

The Spanish flu was a Level 5 pandemic. 33% on earth got infected and an estimated 20-100 million people died. It had a case fatality rate of 2-3% so it was 20 to 30 times more deadlier than the flu.

NOW COVID-19 last week had a predicted 3.4% death rate making it 34 times more deadlier than the flu. Using this morning's number we have 5617 deaths and 150,052 infected. I'm going to use the same flawed method as the media and assume this battle is over and everybody infected has survived so with 5617 divided by 150,052 translates to 3.74% which means the death rate continues to increase over last weeks numbers. China's numbers were watered down to begin with so we will continue to see death rate increase. The truth death rate may be higher.

So at this time COVID-19 is calculated to be more deadlier than the Spanish Flu. Factor in the fact there many never be a cure or treatment for COVID-19.  Finding vaccines and antiviral medicine for flu viruses is easy. COVID-19 can become worse than the Level 5 Pandemic Spanish Flu. It took a couple of years to get rid of the Spanish Flu. It may take longer to get rid of COVID-19 and we will have to endure periodic hardships. We cannot let COVID-19 remain in our lives like the common cold which we get multiple times each year for life. Although young people rarely die from COVID-19, if they have to endure 2-3 battles a year with COVID-19 for 40 years for a total of 80-120 battles, will they even make it to be 40 years old?

I hope people can finally understand why governments and private organizations are doing what they are doing although this virus hasn't affected many people yet. Obviously there are people on this forum that do not know the seriousness of this virus. They may continue reckless behavior that increases their chance of infection and prolonging the fight against the virus for the rest of us. There may come a point some or most of us are out of a job. Governments will first tell their employees to stay home. Private business will start telling employees to stay home. Then governments will tell everybody except those working the military, emergency services, food and pharmacy industry to stay home. If necessary to save the human race, the next step will be worse than what Italy is going through. Let's hope Italy's quarantine is effective and won't need to subject the population to additional hardships. The world is watching.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 14, 2020, 09:43:54 AM

China’s Coronavirus: A Shocking Update. Did The Virus Originate in the US? (https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196)


Wiz, China admitted COVID-19 was their baby and it came from a meat market in Wuhan. They even tried to arrest whistleblowers to silence them. The failed to let WHO in their country to evaluate and with the fight against the virus. China lost control of it so all of us is going to pay big for their fukc up. If it makes you feel better America is at fault, go for it because every one of us is going to need addition comfort for the pain that is coming our way.

I have not read anywhere such admission by China... on the contrary they accused USA about it!

READ THE ARTICLE BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY COMMENTS. Same applies for all the other's who attack me instead of answering the comments in the article.

I asked you to read and answer to the comments of the experts........ I am not an expert.!

The writer of the articles accused the USA and obviously you have not read neither addressed or answered any real comments, as also you have not answered to the comments of the China Foreign Office...... spokesman. (:)

We all know about the CoronaVirus from Xmas when China ordered the Blocking of Wuhan.........

Despite the blocking of all the flights from Europe...........look how fast the Virus is spreading in the USA. Faster than the movements of the Markets in the NY exchange!

 tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 14, 2020, 09:44:59 AM
It is simply the policy of ChiNazi from the beginning.  They do not allow people to call it Wuhan virus.  The WHO Chinese name of Covid virus is 新冠 病毒(virus).

In Japan, there is a county actually named 新冠 -
https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-zip/zipcode.php?pref=1&city=1016040

And ChiNazi has already described this virus in their report as Japan 新冠 virus -
http://www.xinhuanet.com/2020-02/17/c_1125588577.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 14, 2020, 09:48:55 AM
In 18th September 2019, there was a Wuhan Customs emergency exercise.  The name "new type of coronavirus" had already been mentioned!!!

"This exercise simulates the entire process of handling a case of a new type of coronavirus infection."

English translation page link:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctdsb.net%2Fhtml%2F2019%2F0918%2FsportsMeet260345.html

Original Hubei Province Chinese page link:
http://www.ctdsb.net/html/2019/0918/sportsMeet260345.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 14, 2020, 09:59:10 AM
No one yet can explain why ChiNazi performed such an exercise.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 14, 2020, 10:31:51 AM
This article
https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196
 has only one trusted reference from Lancet:
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2930183-5


These references are all ChiNazi media:
globaltimes.cn
news.cgtn.com
xinhuanet.com
en.people.cn
weibo.cn
sohu.com

Also its author is a ChiNazi author as well:
Larry Romanoff: He has been a visiting professor at Shanghai’s Fudan University. He lives in Shanghai and is currently writing a series of ten books generally related to China and the West. He can be contacted at: 2186604556@qq.com .  Without ChiNazi, he is eating shit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 10:47:52 AM

I have not read anywhere such admission by China... on the contrary they accused USA about it!


WHO website below stating china told them Dec 31 about the virus and it came from a seafood animal market.

https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/

The reason you're hearing about the Chinese accusation now is because the world is going to get angry at them for what they're going through. Their citizens are already angry. So China turns on the propaganda machine and some people like yourself will spread their propaganda.

So while your nation and your neighbors are dying and has to endure economic hardships for the next few years, you will remain angry at America, not because we are at fault, but because it makes you feel better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 14, 2020, 11:12:48 AM
At the moment the virus does not seem to be over whelming our hospitals. The trouble it the could change in a couple of weeks. They are just trying to slow the virus down as much as possible. I do not know about west coat hospitals where the virus is the hottest but in the Houston and Arizona areas are little change so far. The hospitals are trying to get ready by stopping anything that is not mediated needed.  I have a hernia that was suppose to get fixed next week and that was canceled. The economy is going to take a big hit if this plays out what it is looking like. I really doubt if anybody is going to buy a car, new house, or other large purchase. The lay-offs have started and I think they will get a lot worse.

China has threaten us by not exporting any medical supplies if we do not behave. Calling the virus Wuhan virus and saying anything about how they tried to covered it up is what they mean by behave. I would not be surprise when the economy collapses we will buy much less products from China. When the economy finally picks up again that we ever let the Chinese import so many products to the USA again. A increasing number of people are not seeing the Chinese in an friendly way.

Many USA business have borrowed a lot of money. The problem the crisis will cut into their sales and they may can not meet the payments on those loans. I really doubt if anybody is going to go to a mall in the next couple of months and maybe long after that. My rental business will likely get hurt as tenants will lose jobs. All of this is likely to put pressure on USA banks.

I really doubt that it is going to be much better in Europe or Russia for that matter. Putin is trying to hurt USA shale producers but he does not seem to understand the basics here. Even if the company that own it goes broke the property stills pump and it ends up in the hands of a larger corporation that can afford the lower price in oil. It is not likely to take much oil off the world market for long unless oil permanently stays below 40 dollars per barrel. Then when the wells go dry they would not drill new one. AS soon as it is over 40 dollars the property would get drilled again. The cost of most fields in in the 30s now but no one would want to drill just to break even. 

A new gas pipeline will be complete in 2021 and it is likely the EU will be ask to buy US gas to help balance payments if they want to export to the USA. That would further reduce the cost of oil in these fields now as most of the have shut in the gas production because of lack of understructure. The same well produces so much oil and so much gas. If the gas can not be sold it make the oil more expensive.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 14, 2020, 11:45:02 AM
Texan,
I feel so happy American have elected Trump.

In addition, you should see the True Face of ChiNazi through this whole event of Wuhan epidemic.

Remember to remind our American friends, Biden's son received huge bribe from ChiNazi in the form of loan and ChiNazi corporation's equity.

ChiNazi's goal is to replace USA's leaders with Commie agents.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 14, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
Texan,
I feel so happy American have elected Trump.

In addition, you should see the True Face of ChiNazi through this whole event of Wuhan epidemic.

Remember to remind our American friends, Biden's son received huge bribe from ChiNazi in the form of loan and ChiNazi corporation's equity.

ChiNazi's goal is to replace USA's leaders with Commie agents.

Up thread I posted about Professor Lieber of Harvard. He’s a citizen of Israel.

He sold weapon grade viruses to China.

China screws up and the virus gets out.

Now suddenly Israel is the first to develop a vaccine.

After causing the economy to crash and blaming Trump.

Isn’t that convenient?


https://www.fromthegrapevine.com/health/coronavirus-vaccine-israel-migal-research-institute-david-zigdon
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 14, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
I wonder how the government are coming up with official figures.

Our national health service website suggests that if you think you are infected you just self isolate for seven days and wait it out.

We know a family, the father travels a lot and has recently come back from Dubai. The whole family is sick and the girl has been off school for over a week. They appear to be self isolating. The girl to our daughter on WhatsApp is reporting they all have a dry cough. Its probably a safe bet that they all have it.

But these people will not be on any official figures anywhere. There are probably many thousands just like them.

Fast forward a few months and it may be the case that the safest place to be is China. As our cases are hotting up, theirs are declining. Nearby places that are more responsive such as Taiwan, Japan and South Korea may be even safer in coming months.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 14, 2020, 04:20:07 PM
The UK government's advisors suggest that while one is infectious for longer than 7 days after symptoms show up the degree of infectivity is very much reduced.

Given that we also know that we can infect others before symptoms show, the government seems to be attempting to balance benefit and risk.

The overall strategy is to accept that Covid-19 is not going away and that getting many people infected and immune while protecting the vulnerable is the way to go. In this way, the amount of social and economic downtime is reduced.

The idea is to keep vulnerable members of society out of circulation and be able to provide the treatment they need when they need it.

So, there's no need to test people we already know have the virus (they have symptoms) because they are already self-isolating.

It is a somewhat risky move to take, but the risks are more political than practical because as a society we will need to build up immunity and that only happens via infection.

The problem with trying to stop infection is, as the Chinese are discovering, that after you take control, then forever afterwards there's always the risk of flareups from new infection sources - from outside the country.

Rationally, I can't argue with this. Get ill, reduce contact during the 'dangerous' phase and then face the world when one feels better. Go back to work, live life. Every person who has had the virus and recovered makes the whole of society safer - that's exactly the principle behind vaccination. When there are enough people who have been infected and recovered there's not enough of a network of susceptible people to allow the virus to take hold again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 14, 2020, 05:28:29 PM
On the other hand, as the Corona virus appears to kill only older people with Breathing, heart and other health problems, it appears that our Government takes the view of the longer time of incubation period…..during which the young infected persons will enhance their immune system and survive easily without much trouble, while some older persons will suffer and may die!

What I fail to understand it’s how the Greek Health system can have results of infected or not persons in 5 hours while in the UK take 5 days?

BTW according to Greek specialist doctors the best way to avoid infection is frequent hand wash with soap and hot water and Antiseptic Gel and avoid touching the facial parts with our hands. Avoid handshake and Masks help only inflected people not to splash around germs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 05:37:01 PM
Now suddenly Israel is the first to develop a vaccine.

After causing the economy to crash and blaming Trump.

Isn’t that convenient?


https://www.fromthegrapevine.com/health/coronavirus-vaccine-israel-migal-research-institute-david-zigdon

Anything you read from anybody claiming a vaccine is found is lying. COVID-19 is related to the cold virus. For over a hundred years of trying, no vaccine or anti viral medicine has ever been found for the common cold. SARS 18 years ago and MERS 8 years ago are also coronaviruses. There has never been a vaccine or anti viral medicine found for them.

When WHO or CDC puts out a statement they found a cure, believe nothing you hear or read.

Fast forward a few months and it may be the case that the safest place to be is China.


I still don't trust what they say. SARS, MERS, Swine Flu and other epidemics usually lasts for years before finally beating the viruses out of our bodies. COVID-19 is worse than those other diseases.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 14, 2020, 07:03:48 PM
No wonder Trump just shut down UK and Ireland travel... Along with those Angele Mengele NAZIS...

https://www.infowars.com/uks-coronavirus-strategy-just-let-it-happen-and-hope-for-herd-immunity/

Another issue is that between 10% – 15% of those infected require hospitalization, meaning roughly 4-6 million Britons would need an ICU – which typically means some type of oxygen support such as a ventilator. According to the NHS, there are roughly 100,000 overnight beds available (‘general’ and ‘acute’) at any given time...

And China discovered there is basically no herd immunity...

The underlying idea behind a vaccination — or even “chicken pox parties” — is that exposure to a virus will trigger the immune system to generate antibodies that will shield that person from that virus in the future. But according to Chinese health officials, the antibodies created after a 2019-nCoV infection aren’t always strong enough to keep patients from getting sick again

I knew there was something off with BJ...  Nigel is not pleased with this level of UK idiocracy!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 14, 2020, 07:09:46 PM
Some light at the end of the tunnel...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2020/03/13/coronavirus-drug-update-the-latest-info-on-pharmaceutical-treatments-and-vaccines/#6982879421db
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 07:49:26 PM

Spain is locking down their nation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51888936
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2020, 08:24:11 PM
Trump just shut down UK and Ireland travel...


Border patrol probably told Trump there's ways people can sneak into Ireland, then fly to America so Trump probably decided to include more bans.

WHO declares Europe as the epicenter of the pandemic. 7 more European nations closes their borders

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51876784
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 15, 2020, 02:25:34 AM
So far with precautions taken, Canada has not flattened the curve.
But as a country we only have 244 cases, so this is good.
The province I live in does not have a confirmed case yet.
I guess one of the bonuses of living in smaller province :)

Only issues here, seems to be line ups for food and idiots
trying to buy all the toilet paper on the planet in one trip.
Which only proves the idiocy is growing faster than the
Coronavirus and no cure for this either  :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 15, 2020, 03:46:53 AM
MY point that this allows Schengen passport holders to arrive via th US, Ireland, etc., still stands ... Hell, Norwegian will probably restart many flights ..


I told you elsewhere that wasn't possible but you continue to talk BS here. You're not only an idiot, you remain deceptive even after being educated on the truth. US border patrol will deny entry into America for individuals who been in certain European countries 14 days prior to their arrive to America. A German citizen or non citizen that was in Germany cant circumvent the rules by flying to Ireland and then taking a flight from Ireland into America.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation

Moby is so stupid that he can't understand basic English.  He's just trying to find loopholes, do you not think the people who implemented that rule thought of that?!

Billy is correct, if you have been in the Schengen area before whatsoever you won't be allowed in.  Now UK and Ireland are banned too.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 15, 2020, 04:40:24 AM
They have finally figured it out.  That it is hard to control this virus because the people with no symptoms spread the disease more than they thought. Testing only sick people does not work. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/infected-people-without-symptoms-might-be-driving-the-spread-of-coronavirus-more-than-we-realized/ar-BB11caN5
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 15, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
When I read this article I was quietly enraged ...

https://www.theblaze.com/news/communist-china-threatens-to-deny-life-saving-coronavirus-medication-to-the-us

NEWS MARCH 13, 2020
Communist China threatens to deny lifesaving coronavirus medication to the US... Sen. Rubio warns the US is 'dangerously reliant' on China.

Then upon thoughtful reflection the silver lining is that the reliably inscrutable and purely evil CCP has so over reached with the help of both Clinton Obamunists and GOPe Cuckservatives to transfer so much of the strategic industrial and medical manufacturing supply chain to Communist Red China that this has been a startling and very loud wake up call and the backlash by Patriots towards the Globalists will be severe..

https://bongino.com/wh-working-on-buy-american-executive-order-to-end-reliance-on-chinese-medical-supplies

WH Working on “Buy American” Executive Order to End Reliance on Chinese Medical Supplies
by Team Bongino
Posted: March 12, 2020
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 11:29:07 AM
Communist China threatens to deny lifesaving coronavirus medication to the US...


There is no such thing as medicine that will treat coronavirus. Until WHO or CDC announces they found something, assume everything you read is BS. There are treatments to relieve the pain and boost immunity systems of those who are infected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 15, 2020, 11:32:15 AM


Billy is correct, if you have been in the Schengen area before whatsoever you won't be allowed in.  Now UK and Ireland are banned too.

Even Billy realises that the US govt worked out 'being kind' to UK / IRL meant a back door ..

Now, US citizens are flying home and going bananas as they're being kept bunched up awaiting being checked - before admitted proper ...  risking being infected ..

I mean didn't anyone tell the authorities that folks can be asymptomatic and infect ....  ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 15, 2020, 12:12:40 PM
Communist China threatens to deny lifesaving coronavirus medication to the US...


There is no such thing as medicine that will treat coronavirus. Until WHO or CDC announces they found something, assume everything you read is BS. There are treatments to relieve the pain and boost immunity systems of those who are infected.
Better than half of all your medication comes from China.
They are speaking about all, not coronavirus.
lots of life saving medicines made in China.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 01:52:52 PM
Communist China threatens to deny lifesaving coronavirus medication to the US...


There is no such thing as medicine that will treat coronavirus. Until WHO or CDC announces they found something, assume everything you read is BS. There are treatments to relieve the pain and boost immunity systems of those who are infected.
Better than half of all your medication comes from China.
They are speaking about all, not coronavirus.
lots of life saving medicines made in China.

We got in the habit from buying from China since they sold it cheaper. Many medicines were discovered in the USA. Since we know how to invent it, we can make it again if China doesn't want to sell it. If China plays with Americans lives, we will stop buying their products and do business with other Asian nations instead.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 15, 2020, 06:07:40 PM
Solution 100% tarriffs on all meds, med equipment and supplies and 10 year tax reductions for all Manufacturers who actually move manufacturing or build new Capacity in USA proper.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 15, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
There's currently a warning about coronavirus maps being used to spread java malware so be careful - especially corporate users:

Live Coronavirus Map Used to Spread Malware
Quote:
Cybercriminals constantly latch on to news items that captivate the public’s attention, but usually they do so by sensationalizing the topic or spreading misinformation about it. Recently, however, cybercrooks have started disseminating real-time, accurate information about global infection rates tied to the Coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic in a bid to infect computers with malicious software.

In one scheme, an interactive dashboard of Coronavirus infections and deaths produced by Johns Hopkins University is being used in malicious Web sites (and possibly spam emails) to spread password-stealing malware.

Late last month, a member of several Russian language cybercrime forums began selling a digital Coronavirus infection kit that uses the Hopkins interactive map as part of a Java-based malware deployment scheme. The kit costs $200 if the buyer already has a Java code signing certificate, and $700 if the buyer wishes to just use the seller’s certificate.

“It loads [a] fully working online map of Corona Virus infected areas and other data,” the seller explains. “Map is resizable, interactive, and has real time data from World Health Organization and other sources. Users will think that PreLoader is actually a map, so they will open it and will spread it to their friends and it goes viral!”

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/03/live...more-50850


GENUINE MAP: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html[/b]


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 09:18:12 PM
Trump took actions that were considered racist back in January to prevent exponential growth of infections. Trump seen it coming and didn't trust China and WHO that stated China had it under control and advised against travel restrictions

14 Vegas Hotels to close. I'm impressed with the amount of private businesses and organizations that are willing to shut down without being told by the government to save lives. Is that happening anywhere else in the world? I do think the American government will have to order complete shutdowns if hot spots pop up because not every business will shut down without being told.

http://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-03-15/14-vegas-strip-hotels-and-casinos-to-close-tuesday-because-of-coronavirus

Two more cruise ships under quarantine. Haven't people learned cruise ships are an ideal place for viruses to spread?

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chile-quarantines-1-300-aboard-two-cruise-ships-183226852.html

My State is shutting down bars, restaurants, places of entertainment and recreation statewide, and cap all public gatherings at 50 people. Still no lockdown though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 15, 2020, 10:10:07 PM
Communist China threatens to deny lifesaving coronavirus medication to the US...


There is no such thing as medicine that will treat coronavirus. Until WHO or CDC announces they found something, assume everything you read is BS. There are treatments to relieve the pain and boost immunity systems of those who are infected.
Better than half of all your medication comes from China.
They are speaking about all, not coronavirus.
lots of life saving medicines made in China.

We got in the habit from buying from China since they sold it cheaper. Many medicines were discovered in the USA. Since we know how to invent it, we can make it again if China doesn't want to sell it. If China plays with Americans lives, we will stop buying their products and do business with other Asian nations instead.

Billy

Andrew gave you a good advice regarding medicine etc.... but as usual you continue posting crap and a lot of bolox.........

As it happens, USA has discovered a lot of Medicine and other international recognised products BUT most if not almost all of them, you have transferred production to China because of cheap production costs....... Today the USA and most developed countries they are doing the same as the US. The cost of producing these products in your country it's too high and you can't compete in the international Markets. Of course USA produce many things but mostly the expensive range..... If you want to start producing locally these cheap China products, you will find that it will cost you a lot more and you will not be able to compete.

Most of your electronic staff were designed in the USA but is manufactured in China.

Now here is another Clever Chap..... talking bolox.

Solution 100% tarriffs on all meds, med equipment and supplies and 10 year tax reductions for all Manufacturers who actually move manufacturing or build new Capacity in USA proper.

If it was that easy..... I am sure some clever chap in the US could have done it already.....

It has been explained previously by Andrew..... that any import duties will be paid by the American people.......but as usual our markets expert.... continue talking bollox.

Take a look at his board avatar and info........ and that says it all. Still single and playing Solo Music!  :laugh:


 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 10:22:40 PM
The cost of producing these products in your country it's too high


So what! America does what it takes and after this is over, we may make Vietnam our supplier of cheap goods.

import duties will be paid by the American people


Trump can raise the import duties so much the American people aren't going to want to buy. Trump already got China to agree to his phase 1 trade deal. Trump is getting a better deal for America that will have long term benefits. Short term tariffs work.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 15, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
I keep telling you! Things usually come in 3's In apocalyptic movies

https://www.ibtimes.com/nasa-warns-airburst-causing-asteroid-arriving-week-2940563

You maybe required to do lots more than Self isolate !  Get your stuff ready, just in case!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 15, 2020, 11:01:25 PM
Looks like the financial problems have only just started.. but we all have financial problems at some point!

But I like the way dick head Branson is begging to be bailed out!! What a bloody cheek!! Here is a man who has made billions ? Has a private Island and a couple of weeks with no business and he is begging for a friggin bail out! Sell your Island you jumped up jerk.. never liked the bloke.. he's always made an image of himself as a kind of Robin Hood, peoples man which is bullshit! people go out of business every day with no help from the government,, it is life.. why should tax payers bail out this tosser! he will have to down grade! It is something that many normal people have to do in life.. utter audacity of the twat!!

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-atlantic-boss-urges-boris-johnson-to-sanction-7-5bn-airline-bailout-11957708

When it is convenient .. when it is not he has other things to say from his foul stinky mouth..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1194579/Virgin-boss-Richard-Branson-urges-Government-bail-British-Airways.html

Usual liberal crap!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 15, 2020, 11:02:37 PM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 15, 2020, 11:23:27 PM
The cost of producing these products in your country it's too high

So what! America does what it takes and after this is over, we may make Vietnam our supplier of cheap goods.

Then you don't like my comments that your have a MAfia representative as a President and the USA is nothing more than a Gangster state...........and everybody hates America........  The End is coming fast!

It is obvious you don't listen the news and you are closed in your house Trolling on behalf of your then Savour you were working ... the enemy and destroyer of your birth country.

I just heard the order in NY for the closure of all shops, etc....... will pay more attention to see the extent of such order.

Sorry but I have a big dislike for people who betray their own country!

 :sick0012:  :snivel:  :coffeeread:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 11:29:32 PM
everybody hates America........  The End is coming fast!


When every government in Europe runs out of money and the governments breaks down, they will ask America for help.

China and Russia will keep the virus out with draconian style quarantines. They will remain healthy and they will prey on the weak. I hope you like speaking Chinese.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 15, 2020, 11:35:44 PM
When every government in Europe runs out of money..........

........ maybe they will follow America’s lead and simply print some more.

Does anybody here believe that they have had the virus already?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 15, 2020, 11:49:06 PM
........ maybe they will follow America’s lead and simply print some more.


Printing more makes money worthless. They can't buy anything with worthless money. Borrowing from a willing lender like what was done in WWII is better. That way nations get their products to fight the virus and weapons to defend against invaders. Euro nations are less willing to use draconian style quarantines on their people so they are prolonging their fight against the virus. If they don't get it under control soon, their economies will be devastated and unemployment will skyrocket. Some nations looking for opportunity to expand will see opportunity. Putin will be running Russia till 2036. His dream of uniting the Soviet Union again may come true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 15, 2020, 11:53:19 PM
Hmm, We have a two chaps originally from other countries acting like 'blind Patriots'..

Myself included, shouldn't we remember our posts will be seen ...if Steveboy's asteroid or virus doesn't finish us all off.....


Be kind?.. )




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on March 16, 2020, 12:37:15 AM
When every government in Europe runs out of money..........

........ maybe they will follow America’s lead and simply print some more.

Does anybody here believe that they have had the virus already?

 Do you mean did the US had a sample of the virus in a lab? It could very well be, a lot of countries have infectious disease labs. I'm sure Canada did, and that could be how it ended up in Wuhan.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567

A researcher with ties to China was recently escorted out of the National Microbiology Lab (NML) in Winnipeg amid an RCMP investigation into what's being described as a possible "policy breach."

Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband Keding Cheng and an unknown number of her students from China were removed from Canada's only level-4 lab on July 5, CBC News has learned.
A Level 4 virology facility is a lab equipped to work with the most serious and deadly human and animal diseases. That makes the Arlington Street lab one of only a handful in North America capable of handling pathogens requiring the highest level of containment, such as Ebola.
Security access for the couple and the Chinese students was revoked, according to sources who work at the lab and do not want to be identified because they fear consequences for speaking out.
Sources say this comes several months after IT specialists for the NML entered Qiu's office after-hours and replaced her computer. Her regular trips to China also started being denied.


 The RCMP sure kept tight lipped about exactly what happened, but it is not a stretch to think that this Dr might have had something to do with illegally providing samples of viruses to the Wuhan lab.  After all, if it was some kind of minor incident wouldn't they come out and let everyone know to ease their minds?   :coffeeread:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on March 16, 2020, 01:48:21 AM
How close are you to the virus?
I now know of one person who has self isolated after her husbands co worker tested positive for coronavirus.
I may have been exposed too as I’ve been around her on a few occasions and while she has not displayed any symptoms she could be carrying the virus asymptomatically.
Will have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 16, 2020, 02:07:36 AM
Girlfriend has a cough. Does that count?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 16, 2020, 02:11:28 AM
Girlfriend has a cough. Does that count?

If its dry, yes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 02:38:45 AM
There are 65 million people in the Uk and how many are effected? less than a handful the same actually applies in Italy ..

If your fit and healthy your ok any way.. the most important point is ARE YOU FIT AND HEALTHY?? Best to answer that then you will have an idea how many forum members will be left at the end of the year.. this makes more sense to me.. cos you could find yourself talking to yourself in 6 months time!

Of course if the asteroid hits then things may change a little more.. Im ready for each and every occasion..well I hope !!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on March 16, 2020, 02:44:30 AM
Girlfriend has a cough. Does that count?

If its dry, yes.
On its own, without a temperature, does it count?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 16, 2020, 02:57:31 AM
Math here looks like it is growing at a rate of 30% a day.
first 3 cases in my home province, all were coming back from some where.
came back march 8th, march 10 and march 13th
first one 7 days, how many people did that person come  in contact with ?

Reality is, because it takes awhile in some people to show up
the amount of people you can come in contact with is insane.
when you think, gas stations, grocery stores, coffee shops, restaurants etc, etc.
No stopping it, only slow it down by limiting where you go.

Little by little they are shutting down country and provinces.
Schools, day care, limited hours in malls,, restaurants.
and pretty much any event has been cancelled.

this at least allows for the researchers more time and hopefully
does not overload the health care system.

Personally I will limit what I do and where I go.
Fortunately with my work, I don't have to get close to many people
so slows down my odds.

Going to be a very rough year on the economy.
Have to wonder what this is costing now in terms of
lots revenue to country, workers and business.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 03:05:19 AM
Social media and the news is the most dangerous thing now!

And if your living in the UK watch out for the police...

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-britons-fine-selfisolation-prison-092414236.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 16, 2020, 03:12:50 AM
everybody hates America........  The End is coming fast!

A) When every government in Europe runs out of money and the governments breaks down, they will ask America for help.

B) China and Russia will keep the virus out with draconian style quarantines. They will remain healthy and they will prey on the weak. I hope you like speaking Chinese.

Billy you can think what ever you like..... today I have made several comments about your Master's Country and you have not answered not a single one, because you don't have a clue.......

a) With what Money... toilet paper or Gold you do not have?

b) And What the USA has been doing since the end of WWII.

China has achieved its plans already as they provide most cheap products around  the world. Keep i's factories busy and also it's people.... and the USA is it's biggest client ...... without invading other countries and killing innocent people. That is your gankster behaviour all around the world. Look their Morden infrastructure and compare with the US decating one........

Finally as you are not capable to answer any of my question... I am not going to waste my time replying any of your Trolling ignorant posts. You are waste of space and talking to you not worth my time. :sick0012:

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 16, 2020, 04:14:42 AM
On the upside, business seems to be picking up nicely for me right now. People are shifting their focus and need my services more than before. It could go titsup but right now it seems OK.

Been shopping. Very busy filling shelves. The shop must've looked like a warzone last night. Can't buy flour. Most stuff is available as long as you buy what's on the shelf. Some stuff has gone weird on pricing though. Some fresh baked bread products have doubles in price while others in the selection are absolutely normal.

One other odd thing - during the day most shoppers are normally women. Today, less women and a lot more guys.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 16, 2020, 06:02:19 AM
Does anybody here believe that they have had the virus already?

Difficult to tell but if one were a hypochondriac then I'd believe so.

One of my mates who with with me in Italy 3 weeks ago had the symptoms and was tested over the weekend. He came out negative. Over the last week I've had a persistent dry cough but more of an under the breath type one. It got me thinking.

Now we're seeing professional sportsman posting videos on social media telling us that they've tested positive and have quarantined themselves. Many are saying that they don't have any of the associated symptoms and feel fine yet they have covid-19.

From what I've learned closer to home in the last week along with whats published in the media, its safe to say that this ones a moving target and nobody knows for sure whats actually happening.

Many of us on here may have had it and been a carrier, without ever knowing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 16, 2020, 06:07:04 AM
His dream (Putin) of uniting the Soviet Union again may come true.

Like Moby often does, you just dropped this massive, steaming pile of crap onto the end of your post, destroying your credibility but making you a more amusing poster.

 :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 16, 2020, 06:47:05 AM
Steve, it ain't about the ones who are healthy and get the virus. It's about the less healthy, folks who are perfectly sound in most respects but who will need ICU care and maybe a respirator to survive.

There's millions of people could die. In the end, we need to be infected in order for society to move ahead. In a few years, Covid-19 will be like the flu and old geezers like me will trot off to get our Covid-19 shots at the same time as the flu jab.

So, we need to control the rate at which we get infected. A rough estimate of how long it would take to attain a 60% infection rate in the UK, without overwhelming the NHS and causing a huge loss of life is about 14 months. 60% is about the threshold for herd immunity at which point the number of people getting the virus and the number recovering will balance out.

Personally, I can see a benefit to getting Covid-19 right now and getting it out of the way. But do I have the right to make that choice when it is also likely that I will infect other people unable to survive the dose I give them?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 07:06:39 AM
Looks like Russia is on elf the best places to be at the moment.. Ok you can try the Congo!!


When the food runs out we will see how it goes in Europe... Europe is a very different place to what it was back in the second world war days, those days people were happy to wipe their ass on some newspaper, get some dirt under their nails, climbs up trees , eat a little dirt.. today everyone is so domesticated they will have no idea how to survive especially with social media storing up a frenzy.. basicly most people today are pretty useless .. but what they will be good at if the food runs out is killing each other..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 07:59:54 AM
His dream (Putin) of uniting the Soviet Union again may come true.

Like Moby often does, you just dropped this massive, steaming pile of crap onto the end of your post, destroying your credibility but making you a more amusing poster.

 :'(

Go figure out why Belarus just invited our Sec of State over and bought a massive amount of American oil. Putin wants Belarus. Belarus wants protection.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 11:01:23 AM
There is little virus here, but we just come back from a big supermarket and its already nearly cleared out!! I look at people and see what is coming next, marshal law and after that you can have a guess..

Im getting my fishing rod and tackle out just in case and first stop tomorrow the gun shop,,
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 16, 2020, 11:30:05 AM
Sorry, Steveboy!

Looks like I cannot come and visit


Russia just banned non resident foreigners.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 11:42:59 AM
That is Mobies option 2 out!

https://www.rt.com/russia/483270-russia-entry-foreign-nationals/?fbclid=IwAR2oTZDrgmC0bJELns3hXuc4_c_vvYVnaXL3fv1ob5KdP5WtNyFwXaPpTwM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 16, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
That is Mobies option 2 out!

https://www.rt.com/russia/483270-russia-entry-foreign-nationals/?fbclid=IwAR2oTZDrgmC0bJELns3hXuc4_c_vvYVnaXL3fv1ob5KdP5WtNyFwXaPpTwM

Same as Estonia is doing and, I think other countries in Europe, on the same day.

Maybe Mystic has friends in high places who can make him a temporary diplomat?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 12:09:28 PM
That is Mobies option 2 out!

https://www.rt.com/russia/483270-russia-entry-foreign-nationals/?fbclid=IwAR2oTZDrgmC0bJELns3hXuc4_c_vvYVnaXL3fv1ob5KdP5WtNyFwXaPpTwM

Same as Estonia is doing and, I think other countries in Europe, on the same day.

Maybe Mystic has friends in high places who can make him a temporary diplomat?

I give 14-21 days till Armageddon .. I don't think Moby will survive what is coming anyway.. ;D. Im just hoping I do :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 16, 2020, 12:37:39 PM
This is interesting a guy in Europe, ( not sure where) had the virus and recovered.
2 weeks later he got it again, if actually true that could be concerning.

Another interesting thing said. Because of what this will do to the economy
one economist was quoted as saying, more people will be bankrupt from this than dead in
next 6 months, thats likely true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 16, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
His dream (Putin) of uniting the Soviet Union again may come true.

Like Moby often does, you just dropped this massive, steaming pile of crap onto the end of your post, destroying your credibility but making you a more amusing poster.

 :'(

Go figure out why Belarus just invited our Sec of State over and bought a massive amount of American oil. Putin wants Belarus. Belarus wants protection.

"From NY Times the Jewish Mouthpiece" Feb. 7, 2020

Mr. Pompeo assured Belarus that “Our energy producers stand ready to deliver 100 percent of the oil you need at competitive prices.”

But this promise, along with his pledge to soon send an ambassador to Minsk, has been widely dismissed as meaningless, since Belarus wants subsidized Russian oil not an American substitute at prices set by the market.


I suggest to you to make a search on Google.......for:

Belarus wants protection from Putin and bought american oil

and enjoy reading your concentrated and orchestrated US propaganda.... which ends up to Nothing! May I also suggest to you to read a little independent history about Russia and Belarus.

For your information Lukashenko (president of Belarus) wants Russia to provide him with subsidised oil supplies as Russia does to its own Republics and people.

Russia already provide Belarus with Subsidised Gas and historically has been part of the USSR.

So what America has done for your birth place after flatten it with bombs and killing 1000' of your own people and destroying the country?

He took back to USA all its collaborators......on their helikopters.!



 tiphat
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 12:46:08 PM
Sorry, Steveboy!

Looks like I cannot come and visit


Russia just banned non resident foreigners.

Start praying I would say!!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 16, 2020, 01:26:29 PM
aaaa just as I said earlier.. tricky dicky should sell his Island the cheeky bugger!!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/virgin-atlantic-staff-unpaid-leave-151614968.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 16, 2020, 02:08:53 PM
Wizzbang must be chugging Ouzo by the barrel he seems totally non compos mentis. Not in charge of his faculties.

Went to Aldi and WalMart today to buy some flour to make some bread in my automatic toastmaster bread and butter maker.... No 5lb bags of flour anywhere so bought some shortcake/pancake mix to make some cranberry raisin wild blueberry bread hopefully it will not explode.

Have my first cold of the year with a dry cough and low fever...   Oooops.  Dayquil and NyQuil seem to ameliorate symptoms...


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 16, 2020, 04:15:09 PM
Wizzbang must be chugging Ouzo by the barrel he seems totally non compos mentis. Not in charge of his faculties.

Went to Aldi and WalMart today to buy some flour to make some bread in my automatic toastmaster bread and butter maker.... No 5lb bags of flour anywhere so bought some shortcake/pancake mix to make some cranberry raisin wild blueberry bread hopefully it will not explode.

Have my first cold of the year with a dry cough and low fever...   Oooops.  Dayquil and NyQuil seem to ameliorate symptoms...

I have not drink any Ouzo since I was a student in Greece .......but in my old age prefer some good wine or French champagne or soft Russian one. Of course as you know I cook and eat nice Greek food too, which keeps me healthy. Why don't you try to cook some Greek Food.

Visit my site and every day you will find a free recipe. Greek Home Cookery (http://greekcooking.uk/)

Cuffy, as you, Billyb and Texan 77 do not understand basic economics.....here is a professor to educate you so you learn that the Capitalist System doesn't work anymore and simply is Fcuked and your exceptional Gangster Empire and Mafia President are in their last legs, like all other before.

Pay attention to the professor and together with Billyb and Texan77, you may learn something about Capitalism, economy and (Corona) virus attack. :P

Capitalism Closed for Business


After that don't forget to take your Medicine and try to keep warm .........wish you luck!

 tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 16, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
Markets roar back on aggressive All of USA national emergency response to the Corona Virus outbreak... Rumors UK may be added to No Try No Fly list due to all the artfull dodgers and Mobsters flying through there.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/futures-stock-market-coronavirus-concerns.html

And...

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/trump-coronavirus-national-emergency/

Markets get hit on two days of big losses.  All of Europe now on no fly list.  Times, they are a changing.  :whist11:

With volatility and uncertainty, it will be the time to "make a killing".   :-[ :-\ :money:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 16, 2020, 04:21:11 PM

I worked in a lab which required a lot of protective gear (googles, respirator, ear muff, gown) to prevent inhalation of granite particles and dust.  It got uncomfortable after 1/2 hour of donning it all on.   :rolleye0009:


Were you working with so-called engineered stone? I assume that you were avoiding inhaling silica dust.

No, not that.  Granite samples taken from geological sites.  Large chunks had to be split apart (using a sledge hammer) and then placed in a grinder.  Large amounts of dust, noise, and sweat produced from all of that work.  After just a few minutes of pounding on the rocks, I felt like I was in a sauna.  All of the protective wear made it worse.   (:) :duh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 16, 2020, 04:27:42 PM
I keep telling you! Things usually come in 3's In apocalyptic movies

https://www.ibtimes.com/nasa-warns-airburst-causing-asteroid-arriving-week-2940563

You maybe required to do lots more than Self isolate !  Get your stuff ready, just in case!

You are referring to your last will and testament and final instructions, no?   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 16, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
This is interesting a guy in Europe, ( not sure where) had the virus and recovered.
2 weeks later he got it again, if actually true that could be concerning.

Another interesting thing said. Because of what this will do to the economy
one economist was quoted as saying, more people will be bankrupt from this than dead in
next 6 months, thats likely true.

Bankruptcy is a major factor in regime change.  This county had a recession in 1992 soon after the euphoria of the first Persian Gulf war had ended.  It hurt the elder Bush reelection bid that year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 16, 2020, 04:52:59 PM
Quote
Half of the 300 coronavirus patients in intensive care in France are under 60, the country's top health official, Jerome Salomon, said over the weekend.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippines-detects-bird-flu-outbreak-070049424.html

The virus is now shifting its target age group.   :evilgrin0002: :bow: :( :o

Quote
"One of the things you can do, if you're healthy, you and your family, it's a great time to just go out and go to a local restaurant,"

https://www.businessinsider.com/republican-lawmaker-ignores-health-warning-go-to-pub-2020-3

"Blue skies, looking at me, nothing but blue skies is all I see"    :duh:  :whist11:

Quote
•Reselling products at higher prices while Canadians rush to the grocery store to stockpile items

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid19-scams-canada-000639881.html

it's all about the money.    :duh: :money: :money: :money:

Quote
If they do not comply, they can be fined £1,000. Those who refuse to pay the fine can also be imprisoned.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-britons-fine-selfisolation-prison-092414236.html

Lock them all up and throw away the key....   :chuckle:

Quote
“Take that, you bunch of losers!”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bunch-losers-tempers-fray-san-100651822.html

 :chuckle: :fighting0025: >:( :GRRRR: :sick0002: :LIMP: :pointlaugh: :Stickouttongue2:

Quote
"In this cave, they've been sweeping to clean the bat droppings every week which in turns reduces the build-up of germs. Bat guano could be carrying various diseases, however, we've been clearing it out every week, so our cave is considered to be quite clean."

Quote
"No, I'm not worried because the virus didn't originate from here,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/thai-bat-dropping-collectors-unfazed-071955786.html

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bat-guano-collectors-thailand-undeterred-072518546.html

Guano is good.  Somebody has to pick up all of that   :censored:.    :nod:

Quote
According to reports, wooden clamps on the giant flag pole came loose causing it to topple into the crowd.

https://news.yahoo.com/eight-injured-giant-flag-pole-150000621.html

Just the perfect situation for a corona virus "feeding frenzy".   :evilgrin0002: :o (:)

Quote
"There is also zero mortality rate,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippines-detects-bird-flu-outbreak-070049424.html

Avian flu outbreak!   Here we go again.   :o :hidechair:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 16, 2020, 05:17:48 PM
Yes Wiz, There was one person did paid 3000 pounds for Covid-19 test. He was also told that if he was positive or if he could show he a valid reason for requesting the test they would refund most of his money. There was an acute shortage of test kits and he did not qualify for test so he paid. All I have to do is call my doctor and tell her over the phone I have symptoms she will likely give me a script for the test without seeing me. They now are setting up drive thru test sites where almost all insurance pays for it and the cost is quite low. This is simply more of your RT fake news.

It is true that there was a test kit screw up when the disease first hit and we had a bad shortage of kits for a couple of weeks. It is getting better now as we have over a million kits but we only have personal to do about 30,000 test a day. So we are not to the point where we can just test anybody yet. We are working on getting better and making test more available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 16, 2020, 08:38:35 PM
Was there any hysteria for H1N1 when Obama was Prez? Did March Madness get shut down? School close? Restaurants close? Flights from Europe cancelled?

This whole thing is a left-wing media manufactured crisis to harm our economy and hurt President Trump.

Quote
From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.
Wiki
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 16, 2020, 08:57:57 PM
Toilet paper shortages?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 16, 2020, 09:16:12 PM
Was there any hysteria for H1N1 when Obama was Prez? Did March Madness get shut down? School close? Restaurants close? Flights from Europe cancelled?

This whole thing is a left-wing media manufactured crisis to harm our economy and hurt President Trump.

Quote
From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.
Wiki

I don't think voters are going to blame this crisis on Trump. It is a real crisis. Obama had to deal with a Level 1 pandemic. The Swine flu was not even as deadly as the flu. Trump is dealing with a Level 5 pandemic that is worse than the Spanish flu in my opinion since vaccines can be found for flu viruses.

Toilet paper shortages?

I seen some elderly people with bags in their hands walking back home from the store. I felt sorry for them if they were needing to buy toilet paper. I recommend they call the store before walking there to check if toilet paper is in stock. But the phones may be ringing off the hook.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 17, 2020, 01:44:36 AM
So the EU has closed its borders I guess the UK soon.. does this mean you will legally be allowed to sit on the cliffs of dover and shoot those rag heads coming over in rubber boats? Or will Moby be making a human shield with himself and his other liberal cronies shouting "let them in" ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 17, 2020, 03:30:12 AM
So the EU has closed its borders I guess the UK soon.. does this mean you will legally be allowed to sit on the cliffs of dover and shoot those rag heads coming over in rubber boats? Or will Moby be making a human shield with himself and his other liberal cronies shouting "let them in" ..

Sure you can. Public health is at risk. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 17, 2020, 03:52:38 AM
Ah well, it only took a virus that doesn't respect borders, colour or creed to bring on 'the best' in people...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 17, 2020, 03:58:16 AM
OH NO WTF!!! British Empire rarely gets angry!!!

Protest in London shouting "FORK CHINA"!!!

Video with English sound track, Chinese subtitle!
https://twitter.com/studioincendo/status/1238076396238327808?s=21

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ES96lPbU4AASagd?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 17, 2020, 04:06:27 AM
So the EU has closed its borders I guess the UK soon.. does this mean you will legally be allowed to sit on the cliffs of dover and shoot those rag heads coming over in rubber boats? Or will Moby be making a human shield with himself and his other liberal cronies shouting "let them in" ..

Sure you can. Public health is at risk.

That is ok then.. in any case I do not think Moby will be hanging about the forum much now,, liberals usually follow a particular route when the shit hits the pan! he will be busy with his liberal friends trying to sell his  soul sell any family members , grassing up anyone possible to the authorities in the hope of better place for sanctuary ...they will all be having nightmares waking up in cold sweats ..

Remember all these people if the shit really hits the fan.. when you are out on the street defending yourself and see a few cowering liberals begging for mercy..

One clean shot to the forehead brothers..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 17, 2020, 04:41:38 AM


That is ok then.. in any case I do not think


My 'edit' makes your post more accurate .. ?;)



...Moby will be hanging about the forum much now,, liberals usually follow a particular route when the shit hits the pan!

Sadly, for you, your prophesy busted busted - already ....   based on my being confined to quarters - unless absolutely necessary ..  I missed when I've been spotted protesting about curtailment of HR ...   I understand the recommendations the UK govt made, yesterday ... 



he will be busy with his liberal friends trying to sell his  soul sell any family members , grassing up anyone possible to the authorities in the hope of better place for sanctuary ...they will all be having nightmares waking up in cold sweats ..

Now you're just being plain daft ... 



Remember all these people if the shit really hits the fan.. when you are out on the street defending yourself and see a few cowering liberals begging for mercy..

One clean shot to the forehead brothers..


All I can say is THANK GAWD the UK is not a gun based society ...  judging by some comments *I* read .. there's folks who shouldn't be allowed near one !


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 17, 2020, 05:34:05 AM
Yes Wiz, There was one person did paid 3000 pounds for Covid-19 test. He was also told that if he was positive or if he could show he a valid reason for requesting the test they would refund most of his money. There was an acute shortage of test kits and he did not qualify for test so he paid. All I have to do is call my doctor and tell her over the phone I have symptoms she will likely give me a script for the test without seeing me. They now are setting up drive thru test sites where almost all insurance pays for it and the cost is quite low. This is simply more of your RT fake news.

It is true that there was a test kit screw up when the disease first hit and we had a bad shortage of kits for a couple of weeks. It is getting better now as we have over a million kits but we only have personal to do about 30,000 test a day. So we are not to the point where we can just test anybody yet. We are working on getting better and making test more available.

Obviously you do not have the ability to understand what a British Professor was saying and to prove me wrong you just post some facts.......(I highlighted some) that prove my comments and those of the professor made:

Let me make it simple for you!:

Your Capitalist Liberal system is based on a number of huge privately run conglomerates for the benefit of it's owners, banks and the Markets, controlling certain parts of the Real economy and when they go wrong..... the people of the Nation have to pay and "Bail them Out"! Do you remember the ENRON Scandal?

Do you also remember the 2008 financial crash? Who paid for their follies?

The China political system is not a democratic one but controls a huge nation.
As of November 2019, China's population stands at 1.435 billion, the largest of any country in the world.

India is the second most populated country of the world after China. Population of India is projected close to 1.37 billion or 1,369 millions in 2019, compare to 1.354 billion in 2018.

The USA has 327.2 million (2018) population.

Well the Coronavirus problem was detected in China last November and the China government shut down the whole Wuhan area and started building a hospital in 10 days .... middle of December 2019. The whole world knew what is going on about a new virus.

Your Government took no action or made any preparations till few days ago and the same Applies for the UK Government, who tells me to stay home now for 4 months to survive any attack.

According to your own post..... your Government Fcuked Big time and failed to prepare your system and if you do not have insurance ..... I wonder who pays? Meanwhile large cities like NY are shutting down ..... see you own comments. NY is a ghost town according to TV reports.

At least here in the UK we have NHS which is FREE, but the conservatives have been trying to privatise it by stealth, so the population not to realise what is going on. Today the service we receive is crap....... and it takes days to manage to make an appointment with our GP....so people flooding the Emergency Departments.

Like it or not every nation should have a FREE National Health System for the good of itw people. Do not try to find any excuses for the Capitalist system....... or your governments..... they do not give a shit about your people.

Boris Johnson has been trying to find a solution and kept changing his plans daily. Now he has shut down the whole country .......... including me.

Yesterday I was listening to one of his advisers.... who remind me, with his theory of the heard, of Dr Josef Mengele, ... the Nazi Criminal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele) who was experimenting on war prisoners,

I suggest start reading some books or listen to some other channels......

 tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 17, 2020, 07:37:47 AM
Wiz, to be fair to the British government, they are following the plan outlined at the outset.

Unlike some other places you are still free to leave your home and do pretty much as you wish. Some people, like my mum will stay pretty much in their homes. Some will not. The choice is yours but you know the costs of the actions you take.

At some point there will be additional measures such as school closures and perhaps a form of lock down for all in the UK.

If the plan pays off then you and almost all other Britons will be better off than those around the world on an enforced lock down with no choice in the matter and, almost certainly a longer period of confinement, disruption and lost income.

At the moment, the UK is significantly behind the curve of most other large, developed economies in terms of infection rate. The goal is to keep it that way.

Over here, it is clear that a lock down is on the way, although we don't have that right now. On the other hand, there's pretty much no place to go outside of our homes.

I was unusual in that I had a choice of regime to follow. I decided to stay here for personal reasons but objectively I think that I would have been better off in the UK. That's true even though I am confident that the government here is setting up and staging the process pretty efficiently and people seem to be getting to grips with the situation quite well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 17, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Andrew, I am not really complaining that much apart from a couple things that I mentioned, regarding the status of the NHS and the overloaded GP….but I used my loaf and found the way to speak to my GP, when I need him.

To be honest I do not trust BoJo or any Con regarding the NHS, which I believe must remain in Public hands and free for all people. I can also see how they have overloaded the GP surgeries and the service has gone down the pan…..

Due to my age I have decided that I will not go out unnecessary to catch any cold or other things. I have no problem entertaining or educating myself and practising my cooking abilities…….The other day when I had to do some shopping…..put my protected plastic gloves on and went to Tesco at 7.30 Am……..no more than 5 people around, paid with my Contact less Credit, twice, to avoid touching any buttons and then threw away my gloves before driving away. Fridge is full for the next 3 weeks… wash always my hands before doing anything….and 2 -3 times a day use antiseptic. I hope this way to avoid getting any kind of infection and especially Coronavirus.

What we are annoyed is that we will miss Greek Easter on the 19 April in Corfu, when the weather is hot in Greece. (Easy jet £60 RTN....)

I wait and see how things will turn up but missing my g/daughters… in LONDON.

I Keep safe…..until the good weather comes later so I can go with my wife,,,,,, for long walks.

I am on a special Greek Fasting Diet and lost 6 kg in a month……it is slowing down so I need good weather to go out walking and loose another 10 at least kg, and all because I have stopped smoking, after 50 years………

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 17, 2020, 09:30:39 AM
From what I have seen, the British strategy seems to be sensible. Whatever happens, dealing with the virus is going to be a long term project.

I was looking at the Spanish case.

A whole country with almost all the population made a prisoner in their own homes. They have been told that this lockdown will last two weeks but after just a couple of days, the government is talking of extending it. Given the lag between detection and tracking and the 'real' incidence of the disease, there can be no real expectation that 2 weeks can be long enough. A month is barely long enough.

Worse yet, all the people who have been isolated from each other will, when released, become a fresh pool for new infections meaning that there will need to more lockdowns.

A close friend over there is already suffering. She cannot work and due to her status cannot get any kind of socials support. Her landlord wants his rent and she needs to buy food. There are millions like her. I have chosen to help her directly but that's not a viable solution and does nothing to help the other people in a similar situation.

Ultimately, the only viable solution is one in which enough people can be given immunity through vaccination or where enough people have acquired a natural immunity which reduces the effective infection rate to below one new infection for each person who recovers.
We know that a vaccination program will be at least 12 months away and longer to be able to run a large scale vaccination programme and it is impractical to close the national economy and imprison people for 12 months or longer.

The British strategy will serve to build natural immunity at an accelerated pace. If the strategy works then we will have much less need of a vaccination program and we will have lived constrained but somewhat normal lives for most of the next year. If things don't work out we will be no worse off than had we followed the closed economy and lockdown strategy.

It seems to me that the biggest success issue is that people want to see stuff happening and the British strategy is one of controlled and watchful action based upon timing and resource allocation.

From my fortress of solitude, I know that I'd prefer to be in the UK right now than over here waiting for the inevitable instruction to closet myself in my home for a month or more.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 17, 2020, 10:13:31 AM


That is ok then.. in any case I do not think


My 'edit' makes your post more accurate .. ?;)



...Moby will be hanging about the forum much now,, liberals usually follow a particular route when the shit hits the pan!

Sadly, for you, your prophesy busted busted - already ....   based on my being confined to quarters - unless absolutely necessary ..  I missed when I've been spotted protesting about curtailment of HR ...   I understand the recommendations the UK govt made, yesterday ... 



he will be busy with his liberal friends trying to sell his  soul sell any family members , grassing up anyone possible to the authorities in the hope of better place for sanctuary ...they will all be having nightmares waking up in cold sweats ..

Now you're just being plain daft ... 



Remember all these people if the shit really hits the fan.. when you are out on the street defending yourself and see a few cowering liberals begging for mercy..

One clean shot to the forehead brothers..


All I can say is THANK GAWD the UK is not a gun based society ...  judging by some comments *I* read .. there's folks who shouldn't be allowed near one !


All I can say is THANK GAWD the UK is not a gun based society . very soon your going to find yourself under "House arrest" let me know how the gun laws go in a few weeks  when the food runs out.. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 17, 2020, 10:57:20 AM
The British strategy will serve to build natural immunity at an accelerated pace. If the strategy works then we will have much less need of a vaccination program and we will have lived constrained but somewhat normal lives for most of the next year. If things don't work out we will be no worse off than had we followed the closed economy and lockdown strategy.


Our scientific understanding and strategy are based on the theory of "Natural Selection".

What if the China Wuhan Virus was artificially fabricated and it does not follow the natural evolution?  Will UK suffer even worse than other developed countries?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 17, 2020, 11:11:16 AM
The British strategy will serve to build natural immunity at an accelerated pace. If the strategy works then we will have much less need of a vaccination program and we will have lived constrained but somewhat normal lives for most of the next year. If things don't work out we will be no worse off than had we followed the closed economy and lockdown strategy.


Our scientific understanding and strategy are based on the theory of "Natural Selection".

What if the China Wuhan Virus was artificially fabricated and it does not follow the natural evolution?  Will UK suffer even worse than other developed countries?

The reality is Britain has very low ICU capacity & few options.

Is the Wuhan Virus man made? The history and evidence indicates no. Though reality and common sense are during this period not in sync.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 17, 2020, 12:50:12 PM
For those who dont know, our prime minister Boris Johnson was on television last night advising against unnecessary social contact and recommending we avoid pubs, bars, restaurants, etc. He is handling it very well I think without instigating full on panic.

The roads are very quiet today.  :nod:

I think that the several thousand cases they are claiming are more like several hundred thousand or even several million. Families at both my kids schools are self-isolating with it and displaying symptoms. Nobody is interested in testing them. Its just not a thing. So government numbers are pure speculation, fiction or fake news.

when I had to do some shopping, put my protected plastic gloves on and went to Tesco at 7.30 Am%u2026%u2026..no more than 5 people around, paid with my Contact less Credit, twice, to avoid touching any buttons and then threw away my gloves before driving away. Fridge is full for the next 3 weeks%u2026 wash always my hands before doing anything%u2026.and 2 -3 times a day use antiseptic. I hope this way to avoid getting any kind of infection and especially Coronavirus.

Similarly, we went shopping today. Costco was queuing round the building before it opened so looked in the Wal Mart next door. Reasonably quiet and reasonably well stocked. Topped up with everything except meat (not doing Asda meat). Called at the nearby Makro and filled up with meat and fish. we are good for a couple of weeks now I think.

When we got back we filled the sink full of warm water and a bit of Milton sterilising fluid and gave everything packaged a quick bath before it hit the cupboard or the fridge. There is no saying who has  been mauling or coughing on it.

I have plenty of hand gel and hand wash. Masks if absolutely necessary. People I know in China are offering to send me N95 masks.  :duh:

I need to deal with people every day but am minimising it where possible. I refused an unnecessary appointment for a sales rep today and he asked why.  :'(

I think the government are massively under stating the numbers on purpose to avoid public panic. I also think that is quite sensible. This is a version of the flu, not Ebola.

As a bloke on Twitter said, Our grandparents got through the Second World War. Our government is asking us to spend a few weeks on the sofa watching Netflix while drinking wine.

It will pass like a Mexican wave. I have five different shipments from different parts of China that are now on the way that were previously held up or delayed due to the virus. China is returning to normal.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 01:41:16 PM
For those who dont know, our prime minister Boris Johnson was on television last night advising against unnecessary social contact and recommending we avoid pubs, bars, restaurants, etc. He is handling it very well I think without instigating full on panic.

The roads are very quiet today.  :nod:

I think that the several thousand cases they are claiming are more like several hundred thousand or even several million. Families at both my kids schools are self-isolating with it and displaying symptoms. Nobody is interested in testing them. Its just not a thing. So government numbers are pure speculation, fiction or fake news.

when I had to do some shopping, put my protected plastic gloves on and went to Tesco at 7.30 Am%u2026%u2026..no more than 5 people around, paid with my Contact less Credit, twice, to avoid touching any buttons and then threw away my gloves before driving away. Fridge is full for the next 3 weeks%u2026 wash always my hands before doing anything%u2026.and 2 -3 times a day use antiseptic. I hope this way to avoid getting any kind of infection and especially Coronavirus.

Similarly, we went shopping today. Costco was queuing round the building before it opened so looked in the Wal Mart next door. Reasonably quiet and reasonably well stocked. Topped up with everything except meat (not doing Asda meat). Called at the nearby Makro and filled up with meat and fish. we are good for a couple of weeks now I think.

When we got back we filled the sink full of warm water and a bit of Milton sterilising fluid and gave everything packaged a quick bath before it hit the cupboard or the fridge. There is no saying who has  been mauling or coughing on it.

I have plenty of hand gel and hand wash. Masks if absolutely necessary. People I know in China are offering to send me N95 masks.  :duh:

I need to deal with people every day but am minimising it where possible. I refused an unnecessary appointment for a sales rep today and he asked why.  :'(

I think the government are massively under stating the numbers on purpose to avoid public panic. I also think that is quite sensible. This is a version of the flu, not Ebola.

As a bloke on Twitter said, Our grandparents got through the Second World War. Our government is asking us to spend a few weeks on the sofa watching Netflix while drinking wine.

It will pass like a Mexican wave. I have five different shipments from different parts of China that are now on the way that were previously held up or delayed due to the virus. China is returning to normal.

I think you and BillyB are hyping this up and that you’ve fallen for the hoax.

Staying at home watching videos is okay but better would be going to the beach or a park, probably at a distance from others, and getting some fresh air and sunshine which boosts your immune system.

In fact because of the media hype you and others rushed out to Costco and Walmart, exposing yourselves to other disparate people. IOW due to the treasonous media the Coronavirus made gains when otherwise there would be more peace, prosperity and overall good health if the media was completely shut down.

Shut down these psychopaths and their supporting Pols and watch peace return to Earth. No need to shut sports, schools and restaurants. Just shut the frigging self-serving trouble makers in media. Hang the treasonous bastetds as an example.


This is clearly a HOAX designed to give big government yet more centralized control and power over our lives.

Here in the USA this HOAX has killed fewer than 100 people. The purpose of it all here is to crash our economy and harm President Trump’s chance of winning in this an election year.

The treasonous media and the Demon rats failed with the false Russia hoax. They failed with the impeachment hoax. But they’ve succeeded in spectacular fashion at crashing our economy and getting the lemmings to blame Trump.


Ron Paul explains this hoax in simple terms.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 17, 2020, 02:13:18 PM


Staying at home watching videos is okay but better would be going to the beach or a park, probably at a distance from others, and getting some fresh air and sunshine which boosts your immune system.

Quite.. if allowed ...  Being in Thailand hasn't done SC any harm - despite hoards of Chinese New Year tourists in Jan / Feb ..   There MIGHT be something to hotter climes not being 'better' in avoiding infections





This is clearly a HOAX designed to give big government yet more centralized control and power over our lives.

'Clear' to who ...?   :'(  Communists, Right-wing, Centralist govts ... ?   YOU need to get out more ..




Here in the USA this HOAX has killed fewer than 100 people. The purpose of it all here is to crash our economy and harm President Trump’s chance of winning in this an election year.

 :ROFL: 

The treasonous media and the Demon rats failed with the false Russia hoax. They failed with the impeachment hoax. But they’ve succeeded in spectacular fashion at crashing our economy and getting the lemmings to blame Trump.

Can anyone get through to our Cornfed that this virus is affecting many more nations than 'murica' ..?   FAIL

Ron Paul explains this hoax in simple terms.

For simple folk ..

He seems to overlook how many died / are dying in China and Italy ... due to a disease 'aimed' to 'hurt 'Murica' ..


Gosh.... even Israel has it ...







Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 17, 2020, 02:25:54 PM
There are a lot of pictures about of tanks and army moving in to Moscow .. the city is already in lock down any day soon it is coming to St petersburg..

FSB are also looking for all EU Nationals who entered Russia in the last 2 weeks before the ban, you will either be placed in quarantine or have a viral scan..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 17, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Confederate, it ain't a hoax.
Here's the thing, if nothing is done then people will die. Lots of people. If we do try to do something then people will die Lots of people.

There's only one difference between doing something and doing nothing - how many people = lots.

Because of the way that numbers work there's a very limited window in which effective action can be taken. Miss that window and you might as well do nothing.

There's a very good article floating around with a very interesting chart showing the difference between taking action to reduce increase in numbers on an exponential curve. In essence, a delay of just one day leads to a 40% increase in the total number of cases, all else being equal.

The UK government is running a very nuanced strategy designed to finesse the balance between action and output. I hope they succeed.

It is worth streaming the daily press conferences that Boris Johnson is heading up.

Here's a link to a report commissioned by the UK government advisory team: https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/handle/10044/1/77482 (https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/handle/10044/1/77482)

An odd thing, over the weekend this report was used in British media to criticise the government's policy, claiming that the report was critical of the government's policy. If one reads the document it is notable in that the report actually supports the current policy. Having read most of the document I found myself wondering whether the people reporting on the case did not understand what they read, or didn't care about getting their reporting and analysis right.

However, either way, from the research in the paper one can see that whatever is done, people will die. The research does not consider economic, social or ethical implications, just the health and health resource numbers. The government must deal with all aspects, not just the numbers of infected, dead and survivors.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 02:53:09 PM


Staying at home watching videos is okay but better would be going to the beach or a park, probably at a distance from others, and getting some fresh air and sunshine which boosts your immune system.

Quite.. if allowed ...  Being in Thailand hasn't done SC any harm - despite hoards of Chinese New Year tourists in Jan / Feb ..   There MIGHT be something to hotter climes not being 'better' in avoiding infections





This is clearly a HOAX designed to give big government yet more centralized control and power over our lives.

'Clear' to who ...?   :'(  Communists, Right-wing, Centralist govts ... ?   YOU need to get out more ..




Here in the USA this HOAX has killed fewer than 100 people. The purpose of it all here is to crash our economy and harm President Trump’s chance of winning in this an election year.

 :ROFL: 

The treasonous media and the Demon rats failed with the false Russia hoax. They failed with the impeachment hoax. But they’ve succeeded in spectacular fashion at crashing our economy and getting the lemmings to blame Trump.

Can anyone get through to our Cornfed that this virus is affecting many more nations than 'murica' ..?   FAIL

Ron Paul explains this hoax in simple terms.

For simple folk ..

He seems to overlook how many died / are dying in China and Italy ... due to a disease 'aimed' to 'hurt 'Murica' ..


Gosh.... even Israel has it ...


I probably shouldn’t respond to the forum idiot.

Dr Shiva Ayyadurai Phd MIT:


“As an MIT PhD in Biological Engineering who studies & does research nearly every day on the Immune System, the #coronavirus fear mongering by the Deep State will go down in history as one of the biggest fraud to manipulate economies, suppress dissent, & push MANDATED Medicine!” he said.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 17, 2020, 02:59:54 PM
Quote from: Andrewfi
Having read most of the document I found myself wondering whether the people reporting on the case did not understand what they read, or didn't care about getting their reporting and analysis right.

Its surely not a surprise that our media is reporting inaccurate fake news?

Quote from: Cornfed
Hoax

This isnt a hoax.

Can governments capitalise on it for their own benefit? Thats a different question.

We know people who probably have it. We know health workers who work in the hospitals where people do have it. The shutdown in China wasnt a fake. It is absolutely not a hoax. But I dont doubt that the numbers that the governments and the media are pumping out are patently false. But I think they are grossly under reporting to stop panic.

Buying shares in supermarkets might be an idea. They will all be reporting a bumper uptick in sales soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 17, 2020, 03:14:46 PM
Here I believe is the reality of the coronavirus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-chilling-scientific-paper-helped-upend-us-and-uk-coronavirus-strategies/ar-BB11jVNP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 03:17:11 PM
Quote from: Andrewfi
Having read most of the document I found myself wondering whether the people reporting on the case did not understand what they read, or didn't care about getting their reporting and analysis right.

Its surely not a surprise that our media is reporting inaccurate fake news?

Quote from: Confederate
Hoax

This isnt a hoax.

Can governments capitalise on it for their own benefit? Thats a different question.

We know people who probably have it. We know health workers who work in the hospitals where people do have it. The shutdown in China wasnt a fake. It is absolutely not a hoax. But I dont doubt that the numbers that the governments and the media are pumping out are patently false. But I think they are grossly under reporting to stop panic.

Buying shares in supermarkets might be an idea. They will all be reporting a bumper uptick in sales soon.

Obviously if you read and comprehend what I wrote, I believe I make it clear that the HOAX is how it’s been handled compared to viruses in the past, re H1N1, and the HOAX is the government power grab to destroy economies and FORCE unsafe vaccines.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 17, 2020, 03:20:13 PM
Here I believe is the reality of the coronavirus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-chilling-scientific-paper-helped-upend-us-and-uk-coronavirus-strategies/ar-BB11jVNP

I’d agree with most of that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 03:21:23 PM
Here I believe is the reality of the coronavirus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-chilling-scientific-paper-helped-upend-us-and-uk-coronavirus-strategies/ar-BB11jVNP

MSN? Deep State fear mongering pos.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 17, 2020, 03:24:41 PM
the HOAX is the government power grab to destroy economies and FORCE unsafe vaccines.

Why would a government destroy their own economy?

Why would they try to force an unsafe vaccine when they could recommend a safe one?

Do you swallow every conspiracy theory that you read? You haven’t blamed the Jews yet (unless I missed it).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 17, 2020, 03:50:09 PM

I probably shouldn’t respond to the forum idiot.

Don't look in mirrors...


Dr Shiva Ayyadurai Phd MIT:


“As an MIT PhD in Biological Engineering who studies & does research nearly every day on the Immune System, the #coronavirus fear mongering by the Deep State will go down in history as one of the biggest fraud to manipulate economies, suppress dissent, & push MANDATED Medicine!” he said.

You pick some 'interesting' characters as 'affirmation' ..

The guy who 'invented' email  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 17, 2020, 04:21:39 PM
I live in Brevard County in Florida.  Just found out why there are no cases in our county.  The have only tested 5 people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 04:29:17 PM
the HOAX is the government power grab to destroy economies and FORCE unsafe vaccines.

Why would a government destroy their own economy?

Why would they try to force an unsafe vaccine when they could recommend a safe one?


Sigh.

It doesn’t bother me when a moldy brain responds like this.

You are generally more sensible. Conspiracy theories?

If they come from RT and Putin you swallow them whole.

Someday you’ll look back and acknowledge, if only silently, I warned you.

Vaccines are part of Agenda 21. Elites such as H. Kissinger and Bill Gates have slipped up several times and admitted that vaccines kill people, especially young kids.

Why would they wreck the economy? Because they really do hate Trump that much.

There are CIA agents who would kill 200 people on an aircraft to eliminate one target and they do it without any remorse at all.

There are very wealthy people who are the ultimate insiders: they can make a fortune tanking the economy and they can make an even larger fortune when they decide to bring it back.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 17, 2020, 04:48:45 PM
Quote
A patient believed to be the youngest person to die after testing positive for coronavirus was aged 45.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-deaths-health-uk-165809377.html

Anyone with "defects" will be fair game.   :duh: :biggrin: :evilgrin0002:

Quote
There is no crime, disease, or addiction in the collectivist state.

Quote
I hate to thrust my Western cultural values on anyone, but maybe it’s time to stop eating bats.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-chinese-government-curse-212710607.html

Anything that moves is fair game.   :chuckle:



https://www.yahoo.com/gma/kentucky-man-refuses-stay-under-113000422.html

What?  Me worry?   :chuckle: (:) :duh:

Quote
Government officials in Switzerland have Tuesday (March 17) issued a stark warning on the severity of the coronavirus in the country, saying its healthcare system could collapse by the end of the month days if new cases continue to spread at their current rate.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swiss-hospitals-face-collapse-10-180215287.html

Note enough medical personnel in the world.  You need to convert every residence into a hospital ward.  24/7 monitoring.  Dispensing Albuterol/ipratropium into the respirator nebulizer.:-\ :eeekk:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 17, 2020, 04:57:15 PM
I live in Brevard County in Florida.  Just found out why there are no cases in our county.  The have only tested 5 people.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/488122-coronavirus-confirmed-in-all-50-states-with-first-west-virginia

West Virginia is the last holdout of no reported infections.  That just changed today. 

Quote
This isn’t a new idea. The United States has done this twice before. During the Great Recession, the federal government sent about every adult a $300 to $600 check (plus $300 per child). The same thing happened in 2001, when the majority of Americans received a $300 check

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/americans-are-very-likely-to-get-dollar1000-or-more-checks-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ar-BB11k2rT?li=BBnb7Kz

For those that do not recall from past history, the payments were made due to the 9/11 and subprime implosion events.  During the dot com bust, no payment was made.   :money:

Quote
“The world is de facto at war,”

Time to send out the nukes and clear the "playing field".   :fighting0025: >:( :o :evilgrin0002: :scared0005: :hidechair: :bow: :chuckle: (:) :saint:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 17, 2020, 05:08:22 PM
Here I believe is the reality of the coronavirus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-chilling-scientific-paper-helped-upend-us-and-uk-coronavirus-strategies/ar-BB11jVNP

I’d agree with most of that.

That article refers to the paper I linked to a couple of posts up.

Having gone through the paper, I am unsure as to why the writers, who were commissioned to do so by the government advisory panel, published as they did. bear in mind that the lead author is also on the same advisory committee helping the UK government. This appears to be a deliberate act of sabotage of agreed policies by one or more of the policymakers.

In the paper, the introduction makes it clear that the research and discussion are focused upon only one area of the problem: the number of people who will die under various scenarios.
Explicitly excluded is any consideration of economic, social or political constraints.

The paper makes a recommendation that we should all be locked up in our homes sometime before the end of the month and for a period of up to 14 months as being the way to minimise the infection rate and thus fatalities. This is an extension of the lockdown strategy being used by several countries in Europe.

There are two other options described in the paper. One is to try to solely push back and thus down the peak of infection and the third option is a blended strategy  - the strategy actually being followed by the government.

It should be blindingly obvious that a complete closedown of the country for a year or more is not possible - but in a context where there are no other constraints that is a reasonable conclusion.

The blended approach is mentioned in the research paper as being the most practical. That's what the UK is doing.

The numbers bruited about from the document are cherry-picked worst cases scenarios. In several places, the paper describes 3 options so it was a deliberate choice by the media to run with the worst case, scare numbers.

The MSN piece is guilty of exactly the issues I noted above by the media. Much of what is presented as fact is supposition and is unlikely to be true given the position of the lead writer on the government advisory body. As far as I can tell from reading the paper and watching the daily press conference fronted by Boris Johnson, the surprise and shock claimed by the media outlets, including MSN here, is unlikely to be true. However, it is likely that the government (along with the lead researchers) were surprised at how many ICU beds were being taken up so early in the process. Interestingly, in Estonia, where there is a higher per capita infection rate there are no infected people using respirators. I stand to be corrected, but I think just 2 patients are currently in hospital from 205 current cases.

If so many ICU beds are being used is that because they are really necessary or from an overabundance of caution?

==================
A guideline used by the UK government as a very rough rule of thumb when assessing infection rates is to multiply the number of deaths by 1000 to give the scale of the current infection. When infected people are no longer getting adequate care that ratio will change but in current circumstances, it seems workable.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 17, 2020, 06:27:04 PM
Having read all latest posts above I would like to mention something from Greece.

Greece during this winter had 80 confirmed deaths of people having catch a regular Flu  and since coronavirus became known only 2 deaths from tested and infected persons with Coronavirus. All were suffering with the same symptoms as regular Flu.

Of course the Greek Government has been following the British example and policies......and the number of tested and found infected with Coronavirus.....is extremely LOW.

Of course the Greeks over the weekend were flooding the beaches and swimming.....in the sea .....

I don't know what to make of the above ........as many shops were ordered to close....including the Sunday churches.

2020 coronavirus pandemic in Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Greece)

 tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 17, 2020, 06:28:32 PM
A Wuhan Chinese doctor's article I read said that using the ventilator early improves the survivor rate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 17, 2020, 06:38:52 PM
the HOAX is the government power grab to destroy economies and FORCE unsafe vaccines.

Why would a government destroy their own economy?

Why would they try to force an unsafe vaccine when they could recommend a safe one?


Sigh.

It doesn’t bother me when a moldy brain responds like this.

You are generally more sensible. Conspiracy theories?

If they come from RT and Putin you swallow them whole.

Someday you’ll look back and acknowledge, if only silently, I warned you.

Vaccines are part of Agenda 21. Elites such as H. Kissinger and Bill Gates have slipped up several times and admitted that vaccines kill people, especially young kids.

Why would they wreck the economy? Because they really do hate Trump that much.

There are CIA agents who would kill 200 people on an aircraft to eliminate one target and they do it without any remorse at all.

There are very wealthy people who are the ultimate insiders: they can make a fortune tanking the economy and they can make an even larger fortune when they decide to bring it back.


There are CIA agents who would kill 200 people on an aircraft to eliminate one target and they do it without any remorse at all.

There are very wealthy people who are the ultimate insiders: they can make a fortune tanking the economy and they can make an even larger fortune when they decide to bring it back.


I think so to! Thats why Im packed ready to clear off away from what is coming next!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 17, 2020, 08:55:32 PM
What planet are you planning to move to? There maybe a couple of spots on Antarctica that might work. The only things you guys know about the CIA is what you read in the fake news. Do you even know what the letters stand for?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 09:42:02 PM
What planet are you planning to move to? There maybe a couple of spots on Antarctica that might work. The only things you guys know about the CIA is what you read in the fake news. Do you even know what the letters stand for?

I know enough about the CIA to know that they are part of the MIC which Eisenhower warned us about.

I suggest people watch the movie Snowden to see a small glimpse of how they operate.

Here’s a real former CIA operative who fingers Bill Gates for his agenda to chip humans through forced vaccinations.

           
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 17, 2020, 09:46:50 PM
What planet are you planning to move to? There maybe a couple of spots on Antarctica that might work. The only things you guys know about the CIA is what you read in the fake news. Do you even know what the letters stand for?

Former CIA Robert David Steele on #FalseFlag operations in the USA.

           
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 18, 2020, 01:09:26 AM
What planet are you planning to move to? There maybe a couple of spots on Antarctica that might work. The only things you guys know about the CIA is what you read in the fake news. Do you even know what the letters stand for?

I know enough about the CIA to know that they are part of the MIC which Eisenhower warned us about.

I suggest people watch the movie Snowden to see a small glimpse of how they operate.

Here’s a real former CIA operative who fingers Bill Gates for his agenda to chip humans through forced vaccinations.

           



Yeah I would not trust any of the ba**** keep those CIA idiots away from me or I will show no mercy in making bloodbath ..

Im sure it Probably is not some big plan.. but any thing is possible as you see from Brexit some people in power will do any thing and with that going on and Trump maybe winning again.. yeah any thing is possible; from the USA and I don't think they would give a shit if millions die, they already what exclusive rights on a vaccine .. death and war.. its just BUSINESS..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 18, 2020, 07:25:46 AM
I blame all the hysteria in the world now on the liberals nothing else! They have made people useless and domesticated , in fact so unless they think the world is coming to an end if there is no bog roll..

In todays modern world there are no losers .. everyone is a winner.. It is not fair to have your child loosing..

Poor useless people..

People commit suicide today just over not having many "Likes" on facebook.. you expect these people to manage when a problem comes..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 18, 2020, 09:40:13 AM
So it looks like the few European countries that let every tom dick and harry in are festering away from the virus.. none closed their borders till the last minute.. well do not want to offend anyone or call them racist..

And what has happened to all the refugees in Rubber boats?? No news? Nothing? Not a thing!! Aliens kidnapped them ? :laugh:  They all turned back.. would rather live with a few bombs flying around then come to Europe.. but I'm sure they will be back at a later date once it is all blown over and the social security aspect of it is fixed..IF Moby survives I'm sure he will be back blowing his trumpet again.. but he has also disappeared ?? trying to save his soul .. some things do not change..

1. Refuges only need countries with benefits ..no benefits OR Virus present they do not need you,,

2. liberals always disappear when the shit hits the fan!

Can't find any refugee news anywhere ?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 18, 2020, 10:21:32 AM
Coronavirus under a microscope.  :laugh:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 18, 2020, 11:06:07 AM
What planet are you planning to move to? There maybe a couple of spots on Antarctica that might work. The only things you guys know about the CIA is what you read in the fake news. Do you even know what the letters stand for?

I know enough about the CIA to know that they are part of the MIC which Eisenhower warned us about.

I suggest people watch the movie Snowden to see a small glimpse of how they operate.

Here’s a real former CIA operative who fingers Bill Gates for his agenda to chip humans through forced vaccinations.

           



Yeah I would not trust any of the ba**** keep those CIA idiots away from me or I will show no mercy in making bloodbath ..

Im sure it Probably is not some big plan.. but any thing is possible as you see from Brexit some people in power will do any thing and with that going on and Trump maybe winning again.. yeah any thing is possible; from the USA and I don't think they would give a shit if millions die, they already what exclusive rights on a vaccine .. death and war.. its just BUSINESS..

Just like I said Russian fake news.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-deploying-coronavirus-disinformation-to-sow-panic-in-west-eu-document-says/ar-BB11mguh?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 18, 2020, 11:40:08 AM
Just like I said Russian fake news. This is guy is just an actor that works for the Russian government. He has been making the negative CIA videos for years. He does not have any in site to what the CIA is doing as not been part of it for years if he ever was. I glade you posted him because this is exactly what I mean that you guys will believe anything.  What he is trying to do is undermined the USA government to cause people to lose faith in it. This is one of Russia main goals. What I get a kick out of is just how far out these guys can get and you still believe it. I bet one day there will be a video blaming global warming on the USA CIA and blame us for the millions of people it will kill from expanding deserts. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 18, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Texan, the link you shared does not mention the Doctor at all. interestingly all the examples provided in the link are true, not false  -the only one that I don't know for sure about was this 'letter' claimed to not come from Ukraine.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 18, 2020, 01:12:08 PM
Do you guys really think a former CIA person high enough in the organization to know the kind of info would be able to publish this type of info? Secondly any body that used to work for the CIA does not get any info on current projects. He obviously did not work for the CIA when any of this happened.  Do you really think the current agents would pass info on to him? This is just a dude that works for the Russia government to create fake news. It is obvious!!! When I looked him up there was years of fake CIA news. It has been obviously he has not work for the CIA for a very long time  if ever and does not know anything the CIA is doing currently. So these stories are just fake. The idea is to create the illusion that everything that happens in the world the Russia or China does is really a false flag from the USA.

The only thing the article was to present that Russia is creating this type of fake news.

Andrew do you really believe this guy is REAL?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 18, 2020, 01:19:30 PM
Did anyone find out how the immigrants are doing at the moment in the rubber boats?

Cant find anything!! Looks like they all vanished in to thin air .. Harry Houdini ? :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 18, 2020, 02:10:45 PM
Texan77, I don't know if he is real or not. I merely pointed out that the link you provided did not support your claim and was itself a work of fiction/disinformation/propaganda.

If you post a link to support a claim you might want to read it yourself before posting it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 18, 2020, 02:18:35 PM
I was busy for 2 days and this thread goes to shit.
From information as its happening, to conspiracies theory's
to political propaganda. Another wasted thread.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 18, 2020, 04:17:25 PM
Just like I said Russian fake news. This is guy is just an actor that works for the Russian government. He has been making the negative CIA videos for years. He does not have any in site to what the CIA is doing as not been part of it for years if he ever was. I glade you posted him because this is exactly what I mean that you guys will believe anything.  What he is trying to do is undermined the USA government to cause people to lose faith in it. This is one of Russia main goals. What I get a kick out of is just how far out these guys can get and you still believe it. I bet one day there will be a video blaming global warming on the USA CIA and blame us for the millions of people it will kill from expanding deserts.

Tex you know next to nothing how the CIA operates.

Fake news? CNN, MSN etc.

And you.  :coffeeread:

Also he’s NOT trying to hurt the USA. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 18, 2020, 04:23:50 PM
I was busy for 2 days and this thread goes to shit.
From information as its happening, to conspiracies theory's
to political propaganda. Another wasted thread.

Feel free to bring it back on track. Whats happening in your area?

Today, Boris announced school closures from Friday. Some kids will go to school if necessary; the children of key workers (first responders, doctors, etc) mostly.

Boris is handling all this very well. He is giving daily video press conferences now. It stops the media misinterpreting what he said (making stuff up) when you can see what he actually said.

The best prime minister since Thatcher. We will have this virus under control within weeks. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 18, 2020, 05:03:10 PM

We will have this virus under control within weeks. :thumbsup:

Hmm, you sound like 'Trampu' .. 

'We' might, if selfish gits don't create artificial shortages and stock up ..

'We' have't been testing - so 'our' numbers are meaningless ..no-one knows the true numbers and the UK has not followed WHO guidelines..no-one in the UK has a clue re infection sources....  it's been a conscious decision to quietly close down testing centres...

'We' are guinea pigs.. BoJo and co. have lots of important workers self-isolating as they aren't being tested to see if they've had the virus ..


S.Korea seems to be handling this FAR better ...


BoJo and co are being forced to try to jump on the curve as it isn't being flattened ... 

'We' should already have been on lock-down  and it is clear folks are still gathering in restaurants  bars / cafes ..

BoJo and co. have an unenviable task ..*I* just think, having seen Italy's experience..and they were weeks ahead of us ... that London and big cities will be the UK's Lombardy.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 18, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
I was busy for 2 days and this thread goes to shit.
From information as its happening, to conspiracies theory's
to political propaganda. Another wasted thread.

Must be due to the lack of toilet paper here.   :ROFL:   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 18, 2020, 05:19:19 PM
Quote
"We don't like it and we don't usually eat it, but people are grabbing it and herd mentality is a factor. What if we don't know something they know."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/virus-spooked-russians-hoard-trusty-143140305.html

What?  No buckwheat????   :laugh:

Quote
"Everything needed to protect the president from viruses and other illnesses is being done around the clock,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-being-protected-coronavirus-around-121755825.html

Better to hide in the underground bunker with the filtered atmosphere.   :nod: :chuckle: (:)

Quote
The Kremlin denied the allegations on Wednesday, saying they were unfounded and lacked common sense.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-feeding-disinformation-coronavirus-sow-092759812.html

More fake news.  Who is the real faker?   :chuckle: ??? :duh: (:) :P

Quote
Matthews, who is known to most of her family as “Auntie Nelly”, added she wanted the event to go ahead because “you only die once”.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-birthday-pub-pensioner-165417880.html

What?  Me worry?   :)

Quote
The IRS will postpone the April 15 tax deadline by 90 days for millions of individuals who owe $1 million or less and corporations that owe $10 million or less, he said

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/irs-delay-april-15-tax-200323153.html

90 days?  How about 90 months instead?  Might take all of that time to get the virus under control.   :-\

Quote
“Social distancing is something often talked about but only works well for the urban middle class,” he added. “It doesn’t work well for the urban poor or the rural population where its extremely difficult both in terms of compactly packed houses, but also because many of them have to go to work in areas which are not necessarily suitable for social distancing.”

“I have reservations about our capacities to deal with this,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/india-could-next-virus-hotspot-064016084.html

This could turn into a corona virus "feeding frenzy".   :-\ :bow: :snivel:

Quote
The U.S. will not see unemployment levels of 20 percent

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/u-s-will-not-have-unemployment-rate-20-percent-mnuchin-n1163006

20%?  That is close to 1930s depression unemployment rate.  Brother, can you spare a dime (or bitcoin)?   :chuckle:   :( :whist11:

Quote
Health Minister Greg Hunt described the development as "world leading" and a major development in research on the disease.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/australian-researchers-map-immune-response-054037370.html  :GOAUSSIE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 18, 2020, 06:40:30 PM
Still no toilet paper but plenty of guns.  :laugh:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/americans-buying-up-guns-ammo-and-gear-as-part-of-their-coronavirus-prep-supplies/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 18, 2020, 07:38:39 PM
Just like I said Russian fake news. This is guy is just an actor that works for the Russian government. He has been making the negative CIA videos for years. He does not have any in site to what the CIA is doing as not been part of it for years if he ever was. I glade you posted him because this is exactly what I mean that you guys will believe anything.  What he is trying to do is undermined the USA government to cause people to lose faith in it. This is one of Russia main goals. What I get a kick out of is just how far out these guys can get and you still believe it. I bet one day there will be a video blaming global warming on the USA CIA and blame us for the millions of people it will kill from expanding deserts.

Tex you know next to nothing how the CIA operates.

Fake news? CNN, MSN etc.

And you.  :coffeeread:

Also he’s NOT trying to hurt the USA. Quite the opposite.

He is very fake. I have never worked for the CIA but I have had a secrete security clearance in the USA army. I know something about how information is handled. There is no way this guy could have this info if it were real.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 18, 2020, 08:38:15 PM
Just like I said Russian fake news. This is guy is just an actor that works for the Russian government. He has been making the negative CIA videos for years. He does not have any in site to what the CIA is doing as not been part of it for years if he ever was. I glade you posted him because this is exactly what I mean that you guys will believe anything.  What he is trying to do is undermined the USA government to cause people to lose faith in it. This is one of Russia main goals. What I get a kick out of is just how far out these guys can get and you still believe it. I bet one day there will be a video blaming global warming on the USA CIA and blame us for the millions of people it will kill from expanding deserts.

Tex you know next to nothing how the CIA operates.

Fake news? CNN, MSN etc.

And you.  :coffeeread:

Also he’s NOT trying to hurt the USA. Quite the opposite.

He is very fake. I have never worked for the CIA but I have had a secrete security clearance in the USA army. I know something about how information is handled. There is no way this guy could have this info if it were real.

Sorry but you’re wrong.

He doesn’t get covered by MSM because they push a false narrative re foreign policy. Like 180 degrees false.

I also had a secret security clearance. You are just too confident that our government is honest.

You’re smart for sure in your investments: I’ve read all your replies to Wiz.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 18, 2020, 10:35:03 PM
Report tells US policy makers to expect 18 months or more of the pandemic with multiple outbreaks. Folks, expect more hardship and no vaccine.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/u-virus-plan-anticipates-18-190626012.html

British cruise ship has an outbreak. No nation wants them but Cuba accepts them. Seriously, after all the news, people still taking cruises?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/virus-hit-cruise-ship-ms-braemar-docks-in-cuba-after-caribbean-odyssey/ar-BB11mE6E?ocid=spartanntp

Took a two hour drive to buy a transmission in Hoodsport, WA today. Their population is around 400 and basically in the middle of nowhere. I stopped at the food market and they were out of toilet paper, hand sanitizer and bread. There was a sign saying there was a limit of two milk but there wasn't even one milk available.

I was at a jobsite doing work for a new home. I used the honeybucket (portable potty). I told the owner he chose a good neighborhood to live in because nobody stole the toilet paper in the honeybucket. Toilet paper is so valuable now that it may someday be used as a form of currency. It may be cheaper to wipe your ass with a wad of $100 bills than with toilet paper.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 19, 2020, 03:35:28 AM
690 cases in Canada, 9 dead and 9 in my home province.
I believe the 10x number that has been reported,  meaning 7000 + likely have it.
Most have come from people coming back form some where.

The federal Government has closed down borders with US , except for trade.
They have announced stimulus packages for economy
extended and easier employment benefits. Small business package.
Delayed tax returns and will extend for those who owe at no interest payments.

Things are closing 1 by 1
All schools, and universities closed last week for March break and has been extended at least 2 weeks
all day cares, restaurants except for deliver or take out.
all fitness centres, liquor stores and malls have reduced hours
Grocery stores and pharmacies have dedicated first hour of opening to seniors
and people most at  risk to shop with less people and hopefully less fear.

All non essential Government employees are sent home or working from home.
Hospitals have stoped all non essential visits and they have set up testing points
I hear they don't have anywhere enough testing kits.

Many offices in private business has closed and working from home or reduced staff
Casinos and VLT's are closed or turned off.

Basically little by little everything is coming to a halt.
Most airlines have either grounded or cut routes by half.
Buses are free but limited to  amount of people per bus.

I am sure I am missing lots but you get the point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 19, 2020, 04:43:29 AM
I was at a jobsite doing work for a new home. I used the honeybucket (portable potty). I told the owner he chose a good neighborhood to live in because nobody stole the toilet paper in the honeybucket. Toilet paper is so valuable now that it may someday be used as a form of currency. It may be cheaper to wipe your ass with a wad of $100 bills than with toilet paper.

https://www.dumpert.nl/item/7861397_1c873f94

Quick... Buy some here.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 19, 2020, 05:19:01 AM


Basically little by little everything is coming to a halt.


Now just to get ready for things to continue like this or worse for up to two years.

Things will never go back to normal. After this will be a new normal.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 19, 2020, 05:39:56 AM
Im sat having a English fry up, we got plenty of bacon.. popped up the supermarket earlier shelves are packed full again..

They are giving visa extensions to any foreigners who has a visa that expires before May1st and is worried about returning to hell..from what I hear there are a lot of people not wanting to leave Russia..

Just 142 cases here.. it could be lies.. who knows .. carrying on as normal even working on my new tourist business .. But I'm still always ready for Armageddon  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 19, 2020, 05:50:48 AM
mm, you sound like President Trump .. 


'We' might, if selfish gits don't create artificial shortages and stock up ..

I think we all agree with that. Not sure what your point was.

'We' have't been testing - so 'our' numbers are meaningless ..no-one knows the true numbers and the UK has not followed WHO guidelines..no-one in the UK has a clue re infection sources....  it's been a conscious decision to quietly close down testing centres...

Eh I think you're misunderstanding the situation again. We don't have unlimited resources and we're dealing with an unprecedented, viral pandemic. We don't have an official cure and the medical advice changes pretty much hour by hour. Testing has been prioritised for those showing the worst symptoms, which is only fair. You turning up asking to be tested for peace of mind, puts you in the same bracket as those, who you ridiculed in your second point above.

'We' are guinea pigs..our Prime Minister Boris Johnson and co. have lots of important workers self-isolating as they aren't being tested to see if they've had the virus ..

You nailed then, then blew it. Doh!  :'(

"Biological experimentation on guinea pigs has been carried out since the 17th century. The animals were frequently used as a model organism in the 19th and 20th centuries, resulting in the epithet "guinea pig" for a test subject, but have since been largely replaced by other rodents such as mice and rats."

So, as you yourself used this expression, its because there is currently no right or wrong way to deal with this pandemic. It's a test case whereby our government and the experts, make decisions they feel most appropriate for our safety. This will change because its a moving target.

S.Korea seems to be handling this FAR better ...

South Korea has been praised for its response to the epidemic, which has involved tracing the infection, testing large amounts of people and isolating patients quickly.

However, it now faces a second wave of new cases and the shit appears to be hitting the fan once again. Not so good after all.

Boris and co are being forced to try to jump on the curve as it isn't being flattened ... 

'We' should already have been on lock-down  and it is clear folks are still gathering in restaurants  bars / cafes ..

Boris and co. have an unenviable task ..*I* just think, having seen Italy's experience..and they were weeks ahead of us ... that London and big cities will be the UK's Lombardy.

Sigh.

Again, this is unprecedented and there is currently no bullet proof formula in trying to deal with it.

Just because the government changes strategy, it doesn't mean they have lost the plot. You like F1 yea? Well lets say Ferrari go for a 2 stopper to beat Merc but the track conditions change and their car doesn't perform as expected, they might switch to a 1/3 stopper instead. They still made the right initial decision based on the data they had pre-race. Understand?

If you're on Facebook, follow Maajid Nawaz because he's got some very good graphs and detail to support the current UK Government strategy.

In short, your outbursts here show yet more uncontrolled emotion and a heavy dose of politicising a humanitarian crisis. People like you are using this as a vehicle to attack Boris and the Government because they don't have the emotional tolls to back them. You're still suffering from Brexit-disorder and the PTSD symptoms associated with it.

And btw, those politicising this corona crisis, are currently less palatable than a stranger walking dog shit through your front living room. Yes - thats you!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 19, 2020, 06:50:31 AM
Lots of words from Rosco that demonstrated that my counter to our leader...who WAS politicising...

I trust S.K's numbers far more than UK 'estimates' and IF we want to stop the virus and IF ..as you claim..S.Ķore's numbers are on the up...

Then it's lockdown time

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 19, 2020, 06:57:51 AM
While we accept that 'peace of mind testing' is, in the current situation, a waste of resources, there's more and worse!

1) People who have tests where there are no symptoms are commonly producing false positive results. This then places the tested into the care system unnecessarily.
2) Staff who provide tests must, obviously, treat all test candidates as being positive and must, therefore, use personal protection gear which is in short supply. Worse yet, because almost all people tested do not have the virus, the protective gear worn by the testing staff must be replaced for each new test.

Here's a paper on the issue that makes the position of false positives very clear: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32133832/?fbclid=IwAR3LHLplRtmPZED3jt_Hjf2ZKysmDcXMU5LgVgNPcqNAtb9EzcQBKMtCIoI

It should be noted that the type of test used can affect the degree of false positives that are turned up. When a person has symptoms the testing is an accurate predictor. It looks as though testing alone is not enough. Testing supported by medical diagnosis is the right way to go. Testing then becomes a confirmation of a diagnosis rather than a diagnosis in itself.

From the document:
Quote
When the infection rate of the close contacts and the sensitivity and specificity of reported results were taken as the point estimates, the positive predictive value of the active screening was only 19.67%, in contrast, the false-positive rate of positive results was 80.33%. The multivariate-probabilistic sensitivity analysis results supported the base-case findings, with a 75% probability for the false-positive rate of positive results over 47%. Conclusions: In the close contacts of COVID-19 patients, nearly half or even more of the 'asymptomatic infected individuals' reported in the active nucleic acid test screening might be false positives.

This is why countries are moving away from testing everybody toward those who have symptoms or who are in high-risk groups or have been in close contact with somebody known to have been infected.

We cannot afford to test people to see if they might be positive.

Tests are being worked on that will show if a person has been infected and recovered, but such tests do not yet exist in the field.

I fell into a rabbit hole this morning. I am engaged in a project about an artificial intelligence driven news aggregator. While the client is being shtum about the source of his code, it seems from what he has shared that it is based on a Chinese app called Toutiao. The idea of the app is to present news items to readers that are very closely aligned with their interests and devoid of 'false news' which as much of an issue in Chianese media as it is in the west.

As a result of falling into that hole - research that turned into distraction, I ended up mining the main site at https://www.toutiao.com/ (https://www.toutiao.com/). The site is, of course, in Chinese but working through the Google Translate extension in the Chrome browser it is a doddle to read and search. I learned a hell of a lot about the whole Covid-19 thing in China. It was interesting to read about the attitude of Chinese people to what happened there and their disappointment that while they seem to be on top of things, at least for now, that there is considerable disappointment that the opportunity given by their actions and sacrifices are being wasted.

The medical team who went to Italy a few days ago seem to be national heroes - and they should be.
There are, of course, images and insights into the Italian crisis that are not available to us in the west.

I have a feeling that I will be using Toutiao quite a lot in the future. The search facility and quality of the results is great!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 19, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
Im sat having a English fry up, we got plenty of bacon.. popped up the supermarket earlier shelves are packed full again..

They are giving visa extensions to any foreigners who has a visa that expires before May1st and is worried about returning to hell..from what I hear there are a lot of people not wanting to leave Russia..

Just 142 cases here.. it could be lies.. who knows .. carrying on as normal even working on my new tourist business .. But I'm still always ready for Armageddon  :laugh:
Ok Steve your in Russia, saying you have bacon, made me almost fall on floor.
When travel restrictions lift, come visit me, I will show you bacon.
Beef and Bacon in FSU is mostly not fit to eat.

So when ready come on over  I will give you a great steak and fresh Lobster for supper.
Bacon and eggs form breakfast :) tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 19, 2020, 10:23:48 AM
Moldy, the stranger walking dog shit thru the front door!  :ROFL:
Well said as usual Rosco.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 19, 2020, 10:26:23 AM
Oh Oh during Trump's press conference this morning FEMA is now in charge of logistics and Carnival Cruise lines making many of their ships available as basic floating FEMA isolation camps..

What could possibly go wrong here?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 19, 2020, 10:34:29 AM
Lots of words from Rosco that demonstrated that my counter to our leader...who WAS politicising...

I trust S.K's numbers far more than UK 'estimates' and IF we want to stop the virus and IF ..as you claim..S.Ķore's numbers are on the up...

Then it's lockdown time

I'm not claiming that S Koreas numbers are on the up - I'm telling you. Go and source it yourself you silly little many and stop with the petty arguing.

Oh and taking about lockdown, I loved the irony missed by Moby and the hand wringers.

Last week Trump started to 'lockdown' the US by stopping direct flights from the EU. Moby was on here crying and complaining that Trump was wrong and he didn't know what he was doing. FB was awash with liberal nut jobs attacking Trump for the US reactions. Shrill cries of anti EU bullying and closed border racism.

From Moby I quote;

Try answering my doubts as to the effectiveness of such bans...

It's too late, even if it was effective...

Fast forward a week and you lot are giving a standing ovation to the closed border, anti freedom mentalities. The EU has fallen apart at the first sight of crisis and its members are now fully sovereign in their border control and lockdown laws. You couldn't write it!!  :ROFL:

And here you are doing a full 180 in front of all, criticising governments for not shutting things down quicker. You lot are the pits when it comes to standing by your actions and you'll use any humanitarian crisis, no matter how sick, to attack and politicise the story for your own selfish agenda.

You'd be moaning about how Brexit Britain has become a police state with martial law..... :snivel:

What a weasel you are..........

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 19, 2020, 12:56:30 PM
Wow, Rosco is on a rolls of inattentive and fails in the last 10 days.

I do not believe any govt ( any nation) figures re this virus..Those with the virus are way under reported.

I posted this video elsewhere, but didn't try on here...


Think it is time..



A firm in Belfast is making 20K virus testing kits for many other nations...NOT the UK..

There should be tandem testing for active disease by PCR testing and at the same time testing for antibodies to show that people have already had an infection, even a subclinical infection. By doing that a lot of people with normal colds may be shown to be already immune. That means that more people will be able to continue working rather than self-isolating.

The kits have been available for weeks....


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 19, 2020, 04:55:33 PM
Quote
“They’re young, and they don’t have any underlying conditions,” Paradiso Fodera said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-ravages-7-members-single-125000381.html

The first victim in New Jersey worked at the horse tracks which the family was involved with.  He visited the family during a gathering and most likely passed it off to them.   :( :-\

Quote
"So those people that are buying in bulk or that are clearing the shelves make it harder for those of us that either are low income or only get paid every two weeks or even once a month."


Quote
“Using toilet paper is meeting one’s basic needs — babies need wipes and toilet paper is a household staple,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mom-cries-viral-video-she-210800057.html

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/hoarding-toilet-paper-amid-the-coronavirus-why-are-people-doing-it-203046290.html

So this boils down to an infantile infatuation manifesting itself during a crisis?  Like some of security blanket?  The virus has been found in poop, so no need to save samples of it.   :laugh: :evilgrin0002: :duh:

Quote
By the end of the Cultural Revolution in 1976, tens of millions of Chinese citizens had died of starvation under a system that could not produce enough food for China’s population.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinese-wild-animal-industry-wet-183648710.html

Anything that moves is fair game.  To survive you go after anything that can be consumed, despite its taste.  :scared0005: :sick0012:

Quote
In China, the novel coronavirus has claimed the lives of a 10-month-old and a 14-year-old, at least.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-pandemic-claimed-lives-infant-110005793.html

The very young also had other medical issues while also carrying the virus.  So it will continue to seek weakened targets along with healthy ones. 

Quote
“We’re going to come after you and we’re going to get you.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/baltimore-mayor-implores-residents-stop-161938344.html

Same business as usual.  Life goes on.   :-\

Quote
"If I get corona, I get corona. "At the end of the day, I'm not going to let it stop me from partying."

Quote
"What they're doing is bad, we need a refund. This virus ain't that serious. There's more serious things out there like hunger and poverty, we need to address that."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/aint-serious-miami-spring-breakers-074801407.html

What?  Me worry?    Party on dudes!   :duh: :party0011:   :evilgrin0002: :party0031: :knit: :drunk:

Quote
•"The message I think for spring breakers is the party is over in Florida,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/party-over-florida-gov-ron-163525771.html

Turn out the lights, the party's over.  They say all good things must end.    :chuckle: :whist11:

Quote
"The health and safety of our employees — and our communities — is our top priority,"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/maker-absolut-vodka-jameson-irish-182022998.html

What about all of those drunk drivers who caused highway deaths and suffered liver cirrhosis?    :duh: (:) :'(



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 19, 2020, 05:38:49 PM
All these stupid dumb asses in the Uk queuing for food.. they got face masks on but are on top of each other.. that shit gets in through your nose and eyes, they have no protection, may as well take the mask off, they are all coughing and splirting right on top of each other..

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-panic-buying-supermarkets-210011877.html

If it gets bad here we already got eye protection face masks the lot and all will be disinfected as soon as we get home, wife already disinfects the hallway every day , boots are disinfected in the shower every time we come back from the street.. :laugh:
It is just like war you got to kill that shit..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2020, 05:45:19 PM
Funny video Moby but they got it wrong about Trump. Trump's early actions and actions you and the makers of the video don't understand has America better off than Europe. How about blaming China? Economies and lives are going to pay a big price for a long long time since they lost control over the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 19, 2020, 05:51:42 PM
I got a better question to ask everyone .. If you get it will you survive?

Myself? Well I hope so, I consider myself fairly fit .. age ? mmm 50 ish  ;D As far as I am aware (Im touching wood) I have no underlying problems..

Who is next?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 19, 2020, 06:11:33 PM
I got a better question to ask everyone .. If you get it will you survive?

Myself? Well I hope so, I consider myself fairly fit .. age ? mmm 50 ish  ;D As far as I am aware (Im touching wood) I have no underlying problems..

Who is next?

60/40. Who knows?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 19, 2020, 06:24:41 PM
I got a better question to ask everyone .. If you get it will you survive?

i hope so.....wife makes sure everything we touch is sterilised.......I wash my hands regularly and use antiseptic...... but I think i may escape .... because...

The devil does not like shits ....... but only good people.........!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 19, 2020, 07:30:16 PM
I got a better question to ask everyone .. If you get it will you survive?


I hope so but it acts differently on some people than others. Some young doctors in their 30's have died. Right now for every 3 people in Italy that recovered from the virus, 2 people are dying. Italy is telling a different story than China did and that story is this virus is extremely deadly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 19, 2020, 08:48:07 PM
Funny video Moby but they got it wrong about Trump. Trump's early actions and actions you and the makers of the video don't understand has America better off than Europe. How about blaming China? Economies and lives are going to pay a big price for a long long time since they lost control over the virus.

They got it BANG ON..  You're just to 'proud' to admit your 'hero' f'd up by telling everyone BS

'Trampu' banned flights from China - that's it ..Italy banned China flights, too

Your president’s misinformation and fibs concerning the virus are legendary.

1/ 'testing was available' when it wasn’t.
2/  contained in America'
3/  “shut it down”








You are behind the curve re Europe - that's all ...  I KNOW you'll have it as bad...


Neither the US or UK has followed WHO guidelines on testing ... 'we' are blind are to the spread of the virus - 'our' govts numbers are meaningless..


The virus is in our nations and being re-transmitted, locally 


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 19, 2020, 08:51:39 PM
Right now for every 3 people in Italy that recovered from the virus, 2 people are dying.

You and 'Trampu' have the same ability to wharp figures to suit the 'agenda' you push ...  You have NO idea of how many people have had the virus, nor recovered ...

You have this explained to you, daily, by a fellow American , resident in Italy ... 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 20, 2020, 01:12:03 AM
Quote
"So those people that are buying in bulk or that are clearing the shelves make it harder for those of us that either are low income or only get paid every two weeks or even once a month."


I think getting payed once a month is rather the norm in NL and not the exceptions. More like 99% of all Dutchies get payed once a month.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 20, 2020, 01:15:33 AM
I got a better question to ask everyone .. If you get it will you survive?


I hope so but it acts differently on some people than others. Some young doctors in their 30's have died. Right now for every 3 people in Italy that recovered from the virus, 2 people are dying. Italy is telling a different story than China did and that story is this virus is extremely deadly.
Italy is showing the world what this virus does if the health-care system is overloaded. China foresaw this and built huge hospitals in record-time to stop that from happening.

Italy for instance, has only 600 beds for corona victims when 1000+ needed medical care urgently. They made decisions to stop taking in the elderly because their expected lifespan was shorter than young people.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 20, 2020, 02:37:16 AM
You and President Trump have the same ability to wharp figures to suit the 'agenda' you push ...  You have NO idea....

Gold, from our resident narcissist.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 20, 2020, 03:56:55 AM
Where we live, everyone seems to be in a higher state of panic. Women are concerned about their kids having no school and being able to fill the cupboards at home with the essentials. Men have no sport to watch and many of the pubs are beginning to shut - a proper shite state of affairs!!  :scared0005:

I've finished my largest pre-sell of the season and have done all my travelling. Plenty of planes, trains, automobiles, hotels and hand shaking but thankfully and successfully completed. For the last week or so we've been working from home and have used best practise where possible.

We're both members of a superb health spa, out at an old rural castle 15 mins drive from where we live. We're using the gym and the pool every night and have been the only people there after 6pm. It's like having our own mansion and with the cleaning they do coupled with the lack of guests, I consider it safe for now.

Our supermarkets are probably no different from most around the country. Stripped bare of the essentials and the supporting cavalry has yet to arrive. I'm told bog roll flies out the shops as soon as it lands. We've got plenty essentials at home so we're not concerned but a friend of mine in retail posted on FB the other night, that he had a pallet of anti-bacterial hand gel coming in, to sell off 2 per person maximum.

I visited him yesterday and he told me that the government had lifted the lot for NHS use. Quite the unexpected event.

I'm now using this time to study for my next set of EASA flying exams, may as well take advance of the quiet spell. Hitting the skys next week again too.  :plane:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 20, 2020, 05:18:23 AM
Seems there is still only around 200 cases in Russia Im even wondering if this can be possible myself!!

But they came down bloody hard on the Chinese back in January I think there was like 85,000 Chineses students here that they rounded up and sent home, wife said some Russian kids were going around beating a few of them.. Italians were also booted out pretty fast.. so who knows..

I know for sure most of Europe was continuing to let the Chinese in even up to a couple of weeks back, same in London as usual "Everyone welcome" even if you had the virus..  probably never wanted to put their foot down for fear of being called racist..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 20, 2020, 05:23:52 AM
wife said some Russian kids were going around beating a few of them.. Italians were also booted out pretty fast.. so who knows..

Thank you, Steveboy for reminding us that ignorance is everywhere ..

I know for sure most of Europe was continuing to let the Chinese in even up to a couple of weeks back, same in London as usual "Everyone welcome" even if you had the virus..  probably never wanted to put their foot down for fear of being called racist..

Hmm, you REALLY think that's the 'criteria' ?..REALLY ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 20, 2020, 05:41:40 AM
Cleaning the metro about 3 times a day..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90309560_2670885179677036_9192643843659399168_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeHa8obJbfLrq-QEiQE4hVD5d_hAWYts0Q_BebkXaldH08LSQeGJvwmLUEroGxNSRbYwlzsQHD1uz4IC-AMQlStkE3-EfV71_DlJAt4rDa9YoA&_nc_oc=AQmqtWQ1sLyC2YjwfIzXekXM3duu1AOu6TMFnmHxgvCCWpisd_S4dU3v_OUkFZ6XyVg&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=9da2b02125be04fd16cfb891563bae6f&oe=5E9A45BC)


(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90173837_2670885189677035_8421025687300734976_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeEzrAhzct4mVR2jMK8AnE47WbEUE9TXS-Em2ZjCPABrnMTsXwS9qejHnfFkVu2EiMdKF5eyopv50nnmpkQVlqX6pnV1zk55tS40GdiWKXBHlA&_nc_oc=AQnCCOlV_ELb-3-ZdjpZJd-0uEAUC7Hkkr_bGNjfyc3iOa5sPJ9cuPrGH7e2GeXt-i0&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=26ff696630ed0e5b39aeefc278deebec&oe=5E9B25E2)


(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90245277_2670885486343672_1320393077025669120_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeGCQyBdYHoBXki-_-LLUtYiG-uF_DuFJkhXaSv6UqyvDVN4GbuezAg-Fim_NJGfBPyN2w8W50tkOIkbX51D08X59UI1J4bU94XAzkFI1JUNgA&_nc_oc=AQmGAfPY_b46tjV6GYTx45jDKz-RCICKIl3huwhPNNQETiLpSjh2B0buXF_ZQ9cewUg&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=0d30101db90d34f897c01efbfdbf4b88&oe=5E989D3A)


(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90241830_2670885306343690_7222785959824195584_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeGogDJHdvwBQTSU_b8HUg78Sn4LqMJic7_NiSyb9dZTLcFDSgSM_UDYx0bSOIFMhIiTlrUcSq8ffmExBqjIE2NvGNryEPGYaaodfOrjydoxtA&_nc_oc=AQkjiw--Ot9-FfMhPf3KeouLzbQaCmdRWz2ltZAhCyi9QJIgb3IDkj_O6JjO2_n_zQM&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=1002e33b8c585886cc50865acd10a98c&oe=5E9C04A0)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 20, 2020, 09:10:03 AM
Interesting market phenomena Gold and silver prices way down Silver from $19.50 USD/oz to less than $12.00/oz at 12.40 this AM.

So prices down for bullion likely due to PE and hedge funds needing to raise cash to cover margin calls... Yet dealer premiums spiked 5X... 

Interesting post by Texmetals.com on why gold coins are not available.
 :)
https://www.texmetals.com/news/demand-sh...-premiums/

Quote:
Demand Shock: The Forces Behind Rising Premiums

An Explanation of Rising Premiums
Most of you are now aware that the inventory of most precious metals dealers has evaporated. Premiums on common products have skyrocketed. I am writing this to offer some insights into these price changes so that you can make informed decisions. I will use the US Mint as the proxy for all mints.

WHAT IS A PRODUCT PREMIUM?
The premium is the markup for a precious metals coin or bar above the spot price. Several factors contribute to a coin’s premium, the most significant of which is the minting (manufacturing) cost. While the underlying spot price of precious metals are tied to financial markets, the fundamental reality is that retail precious metals (coins and bars) are manufactured goods. As anyone familiar with manufacturing knows, to increase manufacturing output by as little as 10% generally requires planning and lead time. Capex, personnel, throughput, raw materials and other factors all create ramp up constraints. For this reason, the US Mint leverages authorized distributors to carry large stocks to help dampen the unique elasticity in the precious metals markets. These distributors purchase Silver American Eagle coins, as an example, from the US Mint at a premium of $2. This premium pays for the manufacturing costs of producing these coins. The authorized purchasers sell to the largest dealers in the U.S. at a slight markup, and the dealers, in turn, sell at a small markup to retail clients. At the largest dealers in the U.S., you can generally expect to pay a premium anywhere between $2.30-$2.60 for a monster box (500 coins) of Silver Eagles, which nets the dealer a small gross profit of generally 1% or less.

The fixed manufacturing cost doesn’t change in tandem with the price of the underlying metal. To oversimplify, if the spot price of silver is $2, the premium for the coin will be ~100% over spot. If the spot price is $50, the premium will 4% of spot.

DEMAND SHOCK
The demand experienced industry-wide over the past 5 days has been unprecedented. This is worse than Y2K, 9/11, or the Great Financial Crisis. It is the speed at which demand spiked (seemingly overnight) that has crippled the industry. Volume is up over 10x (in some cases much more) in a matter of days. This has strained customer service, logistics, and - relevant to this article - supply. The industry is built for elasticity. We are used to big spikes in demand. We can handle a 1 or 2 standard deviation move. We can't handle a 5 standard deviation move in 5 days.

Distributors sold out of stockpiles in 48 hours. Dealer inventory disappeared immediately. Precious metals are the toilet paper rolls of the financial markets - under appreciated until there isn’t much left. To be sure, there is ample raw material, just like there are plenty of trees to make paper. Getting the raw material into the form that you want is the problem.

KNOCK-ON EFFECTS
To accommodate for depleted inventories, the distributors place desperate orders with mints, which are caught flatfooted, and immediately attempt to ramp up production. This requires sourcing raw materials and beefing up staff. Since a 1,000% output is impossible, the mints create allocations to distributors which are estimated deliveries tied to production (but not certainties) and represent only a fraction of what they need. The distributors forward sell this expected (but uncertain) volume to dealers, and make up any shortfalls by bleeding into expected allocations which are even further out in time. In normal times (i.e. no National Emergency) the allocations are tenuous at best. During a time of rising civil shut-ins, the distributors are selling future production at historic premiums with unknown delivery dates. That is where we stand today. All production from Europe is entirely cut off at this point, which compounds the supply shortage dramatically.

The extreme supply/demand constraints spike prices, as dealers are willing to pay much, much higher premiums to secure coins for faster delivery. This is economics 101. The premiums get bid up in the market place. Dealers can afford these higher premiums because customers are willing to pay almost any price to secure precious metals in physical form at the onset of what is now a national calamity and a burgeoning financial crisis.

WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD?
We now find ourselves on one of two paths. One possibility is that the national crisis blows over quickly, demands subsides, supplies catch up, and premiums gradually return to normalcy (a period likely to last at least two months by current estimates). The other possibility is that shut-ins become pervasive nationwide (as they have in France, Spain, and Italy) halting the entire supply chain for weeks and creating an almost insurmountable backlog of demand.

Let’s all hope it is the former. I hope this explanation is helpful. Hi
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 20, 2020, 09:12:48 AM
You and President Trump have the same ability to wharp figures to suit the 'agenda' you push ...  You have NO idea....

Gold, from our resident narcissist.  :ROFL:

Can anyone imagine if Moldy was President of the USA or PM of the U.K.?

It’s easy to constantly ridicule others but it’s entirely different to actually do a job.
Here in the USA we are getting daily briefings and I’m very pleased with Trump’s team and all his administration is doing for us.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 20, 2020, 10:49:42 AM
That's all the cafe's, pubs and restaurants all closed now in the UK until further notice. Clubs theatres, cinemas and gyms are next.....

A lockdown all but in name.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51981653
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 20, 2020, 11:05:36 AM
That's pretty much where we are at the moment. It really does feel like there's nowhere to go. Staying at home quietly. Already feeling a little bit locked in -even though I am not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 20, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
They made decisions to stop taking in the elderly because
their expected lifespan was shorter than young people.

They did that because the government is in control of your
healthcare.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 20, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
wife said some Russian kids were going around beating a few of them.. Italians were also booted out pretty fast.. so who knows..

Thank you, Steveboy for reminding us that ignorance is everywhere ..

I know for sure most of Europe was continuing to let the Chinese in even up to a couple of weeks back, same in London as usual "Everyone welcome" even if you had the virus..  probably never wanted to put their foot down for fear of being called racist..

Hmm, you REALLY think that's the 'criteria' ?..REALLY ?

Thank you, Steveboy for reminding us that ignorance is everywhere .  It is no big deal.. no need to loose any sleep over it.. I mean If I saw you around in the street spilling your garbage I wouldn't waste 5 seconds on you.. just a bullet to the your forehead.. job done.. no remorse... no nightmares no nothing it would just be another day .. BUT without Moby. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 20, 2020, 11:30:03 AM
Here in the USA we are getting daily briefings and I’m very pleased with Trump’s team and all his administration is doing for us. :coffeeread:

Obviously you like to hear your Mafia President telling you a lot of Bullshit!

Here in the UK we also have daily briefings by BO JO.. and all we get is the same bullshit and not the real truth!

 :sick0012:  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 20, 2020, 12:24:12 PM
I mean If I saw you around in the street spilling your garbage I wouldn't waste 5 seconds on you.. just a bullet to the your forehead.. job done.. no remorse... no nightmares no nothing it would just be another day .. BUT without Moby. :laugh:

The thing some folks do to avoid their 'round'))
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 20, 2020, 02:31:06 PM
Interesting market phenomena Gold and silver prices way down Silver from $19.50 USD/oz to less than $12.00/oz at 12.40 this AM.

This is not low enough for me.  I bought gold and silver when prices were around $400 and $5 per oz., respectively.  Commodity price has been outrageous for the past two decades.   :money: :king:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 20, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Quote
On 16 September 2008, the body of British politician and diplomat Sir Mark Sykes was exhumed to study the RNA of the flu virus in efforts to understand the genetic structure of modern H5N1 bird flu. Sykes had been buried in 1919 in a lead coffin which scientists hoped had helped preserve the virus. The coffin was found to be split because of the weight of soil over it, and the cadaver was badly decomposed. Nonetheless, samples of lung and brain tissue were taken through the split, with the coffin remaining in situ in the grave during this process

Quote
In 2007, 88 years after Sir Mark Sykes died, all the living descendants gave their permission to exhume his body for scientific investigation headed by virologist John Oxford. His remains were exhumed in mid-September 2008. His remains were of interest because he had been buried in a lead-lined coffin, and this was thought likely to have preserved Spanish flu viral particles intact. Any samples taken are to be used for research in the quest to develop defences against future influenza pandemics. The Spanish flu virus itself became a human infection by a mutation of an avian virus called H1N1. There are only five other extant samples of the Spanish flu virus. Professor Oxford's team was expecting to find a well-preserved cadaver. However, the coffin was found to be split because of the weight of soil over it, and the cadaver was found to be badly decomposed. Nonetheless, samples of lung and brain tissue were taken through the split in the coffin, with the coffin remaining in situ in the grave during this process. Soon afterwards, the open grave was sealed again by refilling it with earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/a-cure-for-flu-from-beyond-the-grave-933046.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sykes

For all you UK blokes on here, here is someone who perished during the Spanish Flu pandemic and whose remains were pulled out to obtain flu material for further research nearly a century later after death.  The dude also was involved in the Balfour Declaration and was a supporter of Zionism but switched his views just before he died.

Jolly good show there, governor.   tiphat :) :8)

If one of you get the current virus and don't survive, then maybe you will be exhumed a century later to get material from your corpse too.   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle: :sick0012: :biggrin: :-\ :o :nod: :GRAVE:   :eeekk:

Remember, no cremations.  Ashes are useless.   :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 20, 2020, 03:46:42 PM
Thank you, Steveboy for reminding us that ignorance is everywhere .  It is no big deal.. no need to loose any sleep over it.. I mean If I saw you around in the street spilling your garbage I wouldn't waste 5 seconds on you.. just a bullet to the your forehead.. job done.. no remorse... no nightmares no nothing it would just be another day .. BUT without Moby.

...

Dang diggity dawg SB best be careful Mobster does not report you to MI6 for NRA type threats...

LOLOL in live free or die Constitutional Concealed Carry New Hampshire I carry either  a Ruger .357 stainless steel hand cannon but it can get heavy so my daily backup is a Ruger Composite lightweight LCP .380 with an extra clip... I keep it loaded with Hornady critical defense hollowpoint rounds that have a silicon tip in the hollow..

Patented to guarantee a full open on impact rather than tumble.  Best of all is the factory red crimson trace laser that is sighted in at 25 feet.  Perfect for a between the eyes kill shot..  One Shot One Kill.
 
Why waste good Ammo on bad vicious varmints?


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 20, 2020, 04:03:17 PM
So came down with a chest cold last week with sinus and lung congestion... Got a flu shot at the VA in Nov 19 but read this year's flu vaccine only 9% effective... Immediate reaction was DA PHOCK... So had just picked up a new PUR 2 pack of faucet filters and a new Zero Water pitcher with TDS meter... Walmart superstore was only $19.99 per sku but Wally world was out of baking or bread flour for my auto bread maker and was nearly out of dry yeast so bought 2 3-paks... Stocked up on two 250 pill bottles of 500mg VitC and two 60 tab 500 Mg chewable Vit C... No Bulk C to be found so will have to try on line.

Taking one each morn and evening and a couple chewables with bkfst and lunch.

Saw a segment on Boston 25 news interviewing a Harvard researcher best to keep indoor relative humidity between 40% to 60% for cold or flu type virus... So placed a stainless steel sauce pan on a pic inductive cooktop and set temp to 230 degrees and put a towel over my head while breathing in vapor for at least 5 mins... The humidity and direct vapor does cut down on the dry hacking cough impulse... So I support the increased relative humidity with old fashioned boiling water vapor therapy at a simmer 220 to 240 temp on the pic.

https://www.boston25news.com/video/?id=4861996


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 20, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
Here in the UK we also have daily briefings by BO JO.. and all we get is the same bullshit and not the real truth!

No.

We get the greatest Prime Minister we've had since Thatcher (and possibly Churchill) telling us how it is every day, in person, in order that the fake news media cannot twist his words. Go Boris!  :GOUK:

Wiz, thank your lucky stars that I am one of the people that voted in sensible Boris to the position he's in today.

That's all the cafe's, pubs and restaurants all closed now in the UK until further notice. Clubs theatres, cinemas and gyms are next.....

A lockdown all but in name.

Gyms, cinemas and theatres are already on that list and closed from today.

Both my kids schools closed today. From next week they are both on work experience with me.  :coffeeread:

I think it is absolutely the right thing to do to force the reduction of social contact as people were unwilling to do it voluntarily. This way we will have the virus licked in 6 to 12 weeks and then we are back to normal.

Let us not forget that we (they) are giving financial support to all the businesses affected by this.

You can't have the proletariat giggling shoulder to shoulder in Wetherspoons while the middle-class are self-isolating and minimising social contact. They wouldn't be told, so now it's been forced upon them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2020, 04:44:20 PM
I got a better question to ask everyone .. If you get it will you survive?


I hope so but it acts differently on some people than others. Some young doctors in their 30's have died. Right now for every 3 people in Italy that recovered from the virus, 2 people are dying. Italy is telling a different story than China did and that story is this virus is extremely deadly.
Italy is showing the world what this virus does if the health-care system is overloaded. China foresaw this and built huge hospitals in record-time to stop that from happening.

Italy for instance, has only 600 beds for corona victims when 1000+ needed medical care urgently. They made decisions to stop taking in the elderly because their expected lifespan was shorter than young people.

Hospitals can't do much more than your own home would do for a person with COVID-19. There is no cure or treatment for it. A person might as well go home and ride out the virus. The advantage of a hospital is they can help those in critical condition who need IV, respirators, and medicine to relieve the pain.

Hospitals don't do much for reducing the amount of infections. Quarantine helps reduce infections and loads on hospitals. I don't know what Italy is doing but since tourism is down, the American government is buying hotels to use as hospitals. There is one hotel 10 minutes from where I live that is now just starting to get used and fortunately there is very little people in there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 20, 2020, 06:37:58 PM
Very informative VA Covid19 site with exact case counts by location:

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/n-coronavirus/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 20, 2020, 07:39:08 PM
Veterans hot spots Puget Sound, NYC & Hudson Valley, Atlanta, and worst NOLA mardis gras city.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 21, 2020, 12:51:25 AM
Very informative VA Covid19 site with exact case counts by location:

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/n-coronavirus/

Mikey,

How can such figures be accurate ..? ... you chaps are behind us in the curve ... you've not been ( properly ) testing, either ...

After a while the only accurate numbers are the deaths

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 21, 2020, 01:10:03 AM

Here in the UK we also have daily briefings by BO JO.. and all we get is the same bullshit and not the real truth!

No.

We get the greatest Prime Minister we’ve had since Thatcher (and possibly Churchill) telling us how it is every day, in person, in order that the fake news media cannot twist his words. Go Boris!  :GOUK:

Somewhere in between ... 

BoJo just became more ( outwardly)  left-wing than Clement Attlee ....   FINALLY realising that letting the grants / loans filter down was a joke..

Wiz, thank your lucky stars that I am one of the people that voted in sensible Boris to the position he’s in today.


Up until yesterday, I'd have roared with laughter ... let's see if his socialist policies work in practice..  He's FINALLY listened to reason ..

That's all the cafe's, pubs and restaurants all closed now in the UK until further notice. Clubs theatres, cinemas and gyms are next.....

A lockdown all but in name.

Gyms, cinemas and theatres are already on that list and closed from today.

Both my kids schools closed today. From next week they are both on work experience with me.  :coffeeread:

I think it is absolutely the right thing to do to force the reduction of social contact as people were unwilling to do it voluntarily. This way we will have the virus licked in 6 to 12 weeks and then we are back to normal.

Our 'leader' hasn't got it ... Kids are supposed to have reduced contact with others .. 'Work experience' seems suggest the opposite .. encountering the Gen. Public... 


Let us not forget that we (they) are giving financial support to all the businesses affected by this.

No... 'we' are ...  'they' just tell 'us' they've borrowed it and how 'they'll' distribute the loan ..


You can’t have the proletariat giggling shoulder to shoulder in Wetherspoons while the middle-class are self-isolating and minimising social contact. They wouldn’t be told, so now it’s been forced upon them.


Er, the owner of Wetherspoon's - a fervent Brextremist, Tim Martin  - has been THE most vocal proponent of his pubs staying open ..

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1257928/Piers-Morgan-Twitter-Wetherspoons-owner-Tim-Martin-coronavirus-covid-19-pubs-news-latest (https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1257928/Piers-Morgan-Twitter-Wetherspoons-owner-Tim-Martin-coronavirus-covid-19-pubs-news-latest)

No-one's been listening to your 'Churchill' .. !
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 21, 2020, 04:11:15 AM
Here in the UK we also have daily briefings by BO JO.. and all we get is the same bullshit and not the real truth!

No.

We get the greatest Prime Minister we’ve had since Thatcher (and possibly Churchill) telling us how it is every day, in person, in order that the fake news media cannot twist his words. Go Boris!  :GOUK:

Wiz, thank your lucky stars that I am one of the people that voted in sensible Boris to the position he’s in today.

Manny

Obviously you think, I live in another planet and I have not a clue of what is going on in this country.

Your current idol is a clown, having watched a couple of his performances, he sounds like a second hand car dealer as he never give any straight answers. I can add that he is a clown too, because he cannot sort out his own personal life in private and play his shenanigans in public and don’t accuse the media.

It’s his adviser, Dominic Cummings, in the background who is running the show.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/07/23/22/16412544-7278499-image-m-48_1563916598444.jpg)

May I remind you the various complaints made by travellers arriving in this country that no checks were made on them, despite our government were aware of what was going on in China and in Italy?

Are you aware how many checks about corona virus were made in the UK?

I read yesterday only 31,000, so how do you expect the actions taken are justified?

Are you aware that the Health Staff are complaining that they have not enough protective masks and clothes to do their Job properly without taking risks?

Is the Bank of England Private or state owned and are we an independent sovereign country?

Do you think the Neo liberal practices followed by our Conservative Governments since Thatcher came to power have improved the country? I don’t think so…they have sold the silver of the house and only few rich people made richer……and all others just survive. The so called Middle Class…. It’s up to it’s neck in Debt!

I am sure you read about the Billionaire Branson asking for help……. ;D

I voted for Brexit and look how right I was. All EU countries now, are closing their frontiers. Every country to its own!

Let’s talk again after this trade/economical war is over and know how many people have survived!

 tiphat

 






Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 21, 2020, 05:26:26 AM
Clearly the Wizzer and the Mobster need to be innoculated with Wuhan Gratitude Reeducation:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 21, 2020, 09:09:59 AM
So came down with a chest cold last week with sinus and lung congestion... Got a flu shot at the VA in Nov 19 but read this year's flu vaccine only 9% effective... Immediate reaction was DA PHOCK... So had just picked up a new PUR 2 pack of faucet filters and a new Zero Water pitcher with TDS meter... Walmart superstore was only $19.99 per sku but Wally world was out of baking or bread flour for my auto bread maker and was nearly out of dry yeast so bought 2 3-paks... Stocked up on two 250 pill bottles of 500mg VitC and two 60 tab 500 Mg chewable Vit C... No Bulk C to be found so will have to try on line.

Taking one each morn and evening and a couple chewables with bkfst and lunch.

Saw a segment on Boston 25 news interviewing a Harvard researcher best to keep indoor relative humidity between 40% to 60% for cold or flu type virus... So placed a stainless steel sauce pan on a pic inductive cooktop and set temp to 230 degrees and put a towel over my head while breathing in vapor for at least 5 mins... The humidity and direct vapor does cut down on the dry hacking cough impulse... So I support the increased relative humidity with old fashioned boiling water vapor therapy at a simmer 220 to 240 temp on the pic.

https://www.boston25news.com/video/?id=4861996


###

Why not go to the local VA and tell them your symptoms?

They would probably test you for CV to be safe.

Humidifiers are rather inexpensive at Walmart.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 21, 2020, 09:13:08 AM
Corona virus averts (EU) civil war...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 21, 2020, 09:24:52 AM
So came down with a chest cold last week with sinus and lung congestion... Got a flu shot at the VA in Nov 19 but read this year's flu vaccine only 9% effective... Immediate reaction was DA PHOCK... So had just picked up a new PUR 2 pack of faucet filters and a new Zero Water pitcher with TDS meter... Walmart superstore was only $19.99 per sku but Wally world was out of baking or bread flour for my auto bread maker and was nearly out of dry yeast so bought 2 3-paks... Stocked up on two 250 pill bottles of 500mg VitC and two 60 tab 500 Mg chewable Vit C... No Bulk C to be found so will have to try on line.

Taking one each morn and evening and a couple chewables with bkfst and lunch.

Saw a segment on Boston 25 news interviewing a Harvard researcher best to keep indoor relative humidity between 40% to 60% for cold or flu type virus... So placed a stainless steel sauce pan on a pic inductive cooktop and set temp to 230 degrees and put a towel over my head while breathing in vapor for at least 5 mins... The humidity and direct vapor does cut down on the dry hacking cough impulse... So I support the increased relative humidity with old fashioned boiling water vapor therapy at a simmer 220 to 240 temp on the pic.

https://www.boston25news.com/video/?id=4861996


###

Why not go to the local VA and tell them your symptoms?

They would probably test you for CV to be safe.

Humidifiers are rather inexpensive at Walmart.

A VA lass called me to do a wellness check and I asked her VA policy re covid19 she said to call 211 to schedule a community test...  Appears they do not want covid infected Veterans swarming the VA facilities as it will wipe out many of the older Vietnam, Korean and what's left of the WWll vets.

They have cancelled all VA community outreach and are only doing telephonic wellness checks now.

Then I read that the VA ordered to get ready to accept civilian Covid19 surge overflow... Be lucky if there is a VA left afterwards...

Anyway am on day 7 if I am alive this time next week than it was just a head cold... If not you will have to pick up the torch to continue to burn out the resident whorewolves here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 10:07:52 AM

Weeks ago I got a call from the Puget Sound VA hospital telling me what part of the hospital to go for a COVID-19 test. They try to keep those people possibly infected from those not infected in the hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 21, 2020, 10:27:15 AM
Cuffy we need Admirals to keep the likes of Wis and ms in check! Be well and be of good cheer!

Andrew how is your girl friend doing?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 21, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
Hospitals can't do much more than your own home would do for a person with COVID-19. There is no cure or treatment for it. A person might as well go home and ride out the virus. The advantage of a hospital is they can help those in critical condition who need IV, respirators, and medicine to relieve the pain.
You do realise how much you contradict yourself in this short text.

And yes , hospitals are very useful to corona-patients and then mainly the ones that need urgent medical care for their lungs , which is attacked by corona. Thats also the majority of how people die from Corona. Slowly suffocating in Pain and misery. Not really attractive way to go.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 21, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
Some people here in Europe still like to compare Corona to the Flu in both death ratio and infectiveness.

Now that italy is approaching the 1000 deaths/day rate, i doubt that will hold water much longer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 21, 2020, 11:18:01 AM
Anyone remember the good old days when we were just arguing about Brexit?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 21, 2020, 11:28:30 AM
Lockdown day 6 with the kids.....

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 21, 2020, 01:08:37 PM
Clearly the Wizzer and the Mobster need to be innoculated with Wuhan Gratitude Reeducation:


It is clear that you have either got the Virus or you have gone loopy....

In any case you need to be taken to an asylum to make sure that you do'not hurt yourself or anybody else.

Instead of watching the stupid videos you posted I chose to watch a Greek program with many Excellent Greek Professors who gave us a good advice about the whole story.

Some of them are working in USA and Italy and one of them is well known for his work with AIDS.

Pity there is not a transcript or translation..... but just take a look how seriously the Greek approach the virus subject. I have not have seen any similar program in the UK.

Coronavirus -Covid-19: Rapid Developments and Data


Published on 21 Mar 2020 and On the show they talk about the following proffesionals:

1) - Nektarios Tavernarakis, Director of the Central Board of ITE, specializing in Molecular Genetics - Researcher at the Institute of Molecular Biology - Biotechnology.

2) - Connection with Bergamo - Italy,
George Giorgos, Doctor - Surgeon ENT Papa Giovanni Hospital - Bergamo

3) - George Pavlakis - BOSTON, Head of the Department of Human Retroviruses at the US National Cancer Institute - Greek scientist who changed the HIV landscape

4) - Achilleas Gravannis, Professor of Pharmacology, University of Crete Medical School and Researcher at the Institute of Molecular Biology

5) - Dimitris Georgopoulos, Professor of Intensive Care, Department of Medicine, University of Crete and Coordinator of ICU Crete

6) - George Sourvinos, Biology-Professor of Clinical Biology, and Head of the Virology Laboratory, Department of Medicine, University of Crete.

- FROM CALIFORNIA

7) -Yannis Ioannidis, Professor of Medicine, Health Disease Prevention, Health Research and Statistics, Stanford University, California - Full-time member of the Class of Medicine, US National Academy of Sciences. - CALIFORNIA

8) - Dimitris Karagiannis, Pediatric Psychiatrist-Psychotherapist, Director of the Pediatric Mental Health Center, Ph.D., Democritus University. - ATHENS

9) - Kostas Kanakis, PhD Candidate Department of History - Archeology of the University of Crete, Research Associate of the Laboratory of History of Medicine and Medical Ethics of the Medical School of the University of Crete.

After watching the above talking in the video.........that mental USA fly....goes to insignificance.


 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 21, 2020, 06:20:33 PM
Soon some CoVid-19 Test results in the USA will be determined in about 45 minutes.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/fda-authorizes-first-rapid-point-of-care-coronavirus-test/ar-BB11vTxm?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 21, 2020, 09:42:42 PM
Hospitals can't do much more than your own home would do for a person with COVID-19. There is no cure or treatment for it. A person might as well go home and ride out the virus. The advantage of a hospital is they can help those in critical condition who need IV, respirators, and medicine to relieve the pain.
You do realise how much you contradict yourself in this short text.

And yes , hospitals are very useful to corona-patients and then mainly the ones that need urgent medical care for their lungs , which is attacked by corona. Thats also the majority of how people die from Corona. Slowly suffocating in Pain and misery. Not really attractive way to go.

Most people infected with the virus doesn't need a hospital. If they go and overload the medical personnel and use supplies, that will hurt those patients that need help the most. Most people infected need to do their part and stay home. Go to the hospital only if in serious condition.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 21, 2020, 10:36:12 PM
Quote
It is believed that cytokine storms were responsible for the disproportionate number of healthy young adult deaths during the 1918 influenza pandemic, which killed 50 to 100 million people. In this case, a healthy immune system may have been a liability rather than an asset. Preliminary research results from Taiwan also indicated this as the probable reason for many deaths during the SARS epidemic in 2003. Human deaths from the bird flu H5N1 usually involve cytokine storms as well. Cytokine storm has also been implicated in hantavirus pulmonary syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_release_syndrome

https://www.americanlaboratory.com/914-Application-Notes/340464-An-Effective-Treatment-Strategy-for-Cytokine-Storm-in-Severe-Influenza/

The "perfect storm".   :-\ :scared0005:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 22, 2020, 12:59:49 AM
Lockdown day 6 with the kids.....


Thanks, Markje,

That's one of the best ones I've seen ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 22, 2020, 03:39:48 AM

Most people infected with the virus doesn't need a hospital. If they go and overload the medical personnel and use supplies, that will hurt those patients that need help the most. Most people infected need to do their part and stay home. Go to the hospital only if in serious condition.
Most people don't , but at least 10x more than people that catch the flu. Especially pneumonia and other pre-existing lung diseases are a problem.

I dare bet that 90% of the people never heard of sarcoidoses, it has no symptoms you care about. yet many people also suffer from that lung-affliction. Especially if you live in metropolises with 500k people or bigger (air pollution causes it). It can be deadly when combined with Corona.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 22, 2020, 09:35:59 AM
Quote
It is believed that cytokine storms were responsible for the disproportionate number of healthy young adult deaths during the 1918 influenza pandemic, which killed 50 to 100 million people. In this case, a healthy immune system may have been a liability rather than an asset. Preliminary research results from Taiwan also indicated this as the probable reason for many deaths during the SARS epidemic in 2003. Human deaths from the bird flu H5N1 usually involve cytokine storms as well. Cytokine storm has also been implicated in hantavirus pulmonary syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_release_syndrome

https://www.americanlaboratory.com/914-Application-Notes/340464-An-Effective-Treatment-Strategy-for-Cytokine-Storm-in-Severe-Influenza/

The "perfect storm".   :-\ :scared0005:

This can be compared to a category 5 Hurricane inside your body.  ~ Homestead, Florida  1992

Also, can be looked at as an American football game inside your body  ~  Your defense converts to offense.   Game over 
 :( :D :sick0012: :scared0005: :snivel: :hidechair: :GRAVE:

I knew that the weather and sports were going to get involved with this world alert topic somehow.   :chuckle:   (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 22, 2020, 09:54:21 AM
Quote
A representative for Deja Vu, which owns Little Darlings, told Insider that it’s “business as usual” and the club is still offering lap dances

https://www.insider.com/las-vegas-strip-club-drive-thru-show-lap-dances-coronavirus-2020-3

Sex does not take a vacation.   :evilgrin0002: :knit: :party0011: :-X :) :innocent: :eeekk:

Quote
"White Racially Motivated Violent Extremists have recently commented on the coronavirus stating that it is an 'OBLIGATION' to spread it should any of them contract the virus,"

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-white-supremacists-discussed-using-covid-19-as-bioweapon-2020-3

Another attempt at weaponizing the virus.   >:( :GRRRR: :evilgrin0002: :fighting0025: :antagonize:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 22, 2020, 10:51:38 AM
(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90657168_10216744370738370_5989053627635859456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQn-8Zn_P1vztZbhLumG9VmdxmMrmCtTJLDeIsqgQNyg00g_9_vvLiikZNm9z9eiK7o&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=5f5b0a1f5daa696407be448b1ae60eaa&oe=5E9D910D)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 22, 2020, 11:18:01 AM
(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90657168_10216744370738370_5989053627635859456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQn-8Zn_P1vztZbhLumG9VmdxmMrmCtTJLDeIsqgQNyg00g_9_vvLiikZNm9z9eiK7o&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=5f5b0a1f5daa696407be448b1ae60eaa&oe=5E9D910D)
fake of course. This pico was taken in germany
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 22, 2020, 11:26:07 AM
Clearly the Wizzer and the Mobster need to be innoculated with Wuhan Gratitude Reeducation:


It is clear that you have either got the Virus or you have gone loopy....

In any case you need to be taken to an asylum to make sure that you do'not hurt yourself or anybody else.

Instead of watching the stupid videos you posted I chose to watch a Greek program with many Excellent Greek Professors who gave us a good advice about the whole story.

Some of them are working in USA and Italy and one of them is well known for his work with AIDS.

Pity there is not a transcript or translation..... but just take a look how seriously the Greek approach the virus subject. I have not have seen any similar program in the UK.

Coronavirus -Covid-19: Rapid Developments and Data


Published on 21 Mar 2020 and On the show they talk about the following proffesionals:

1) - Nektarios Tavernarakis, Director of the Central Board of ITE, specializing in Molecular Genetics - Researcher at the Institute of Molecular Biology - Biotechnology.

2) - Connection with Bergamo - Italy,
George Giorgos, Doctor - Surgeon ENT Papa Giovanni Hospital - Bergamo

3) - George Pavlakis - BOSTON, Head of the Department of Human Retroviruses at the US National Cancer Institute - Greek scientist who changed the HIV landscape

4) - Achilleas Gravannis, Professor of Pharmacology, University of Crete Medical School and Researcher at the Institute of Molecular Biology

5) - Dimitris Georgopoulos, Professor of Intensive Care, Department of Medicine, University of Crete and Coordinator of ICU Crete

6) - George Sourvinos, Biology-Professor of Clinical Biology, and Head of the Virology Laboratory, Department of Medicine, University of Crete.

- FROM CALIFORNIA

7) -Yannis Ioannidis, Professor of Medicine, Health Disease Prevention, Health Research and Statistics, Stanford University, California - Full-time member of the Class of Medicine, US National Academy of Sciences. - CALIFORNIA

8) - Dimitris Karagiannis, Pediatric Psychiatrist-Psychotherapist, Director of the Pediatric Mental Health Center, Ph.D., Democritus University. - ATHENS

9) - Kostas Kanakis, PhD Candidate Department of History - Archeology of the University of Crete, Research Associate of the Laboratory of History of Medicine and Medical Ethics of the Medical School of the University of Crete.

After watching the above talking in the video.........that mental USA fly....goes to insignificance.


 tiphat

Having worked at Caregroup at Harvard Medical as well as Boston University Medical centers the profound irony is that most of these dedicated and talented Greek professionals work for even higher IQ Ashkenazi Jews who are the predominant Directors and C-level officers in the organizations that employ them...  At the end of the day we all serve somebody... Go figure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 22, 2020, 11:35:50 AM
From Team Trump:

Pres. Trump is making your safety his #1 priority. That's why we're closing BORDERS to illegals. Take our Border Security Survey NOW: bit.ly/2UuDRfH

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 22, 2020, 12:10:43 PM
Putin sends medical and disinfectant help to Italy. The cargo planes with gear, personal and supplies should be landing today.

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-army-send-coronavirus-help-061757369.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 22, 2020, 12:18:45 PM
Breaking NEWS: Can quercetin help us to avoid the threat of coronavirus infection?

https://www.naturalhealth365.com/quercetin-covid-19-studies-3337.html

by: Lori Alton, staff writer | March 21, 2020

(NaturalHealth365) As COVID-19 continues its march across the globe – and officials warn of a “tsunami” of newly-diagnosed cases and continuing fatalities in the U.S. – a team of Canadian researchers is basing their hopes on quercetin, a flavonoid from plants.

At the center of this flurry of optimism is research helmed by Dr. Michael Chrétien, a renowned scientist at the Clinical Research Institute of Montreal. Along with his co-researcher, Congolese scientist Majambu Mbikay, Dr. Chrétien is currently awaiting approval to send the drug (derived from plants) to China for clinical trials that will test it against the novel coronavirus.

While this would be the first clinical study to test quercetin against COVID-19, natural health experts have long credited this natural plant pigment with the ability to deal with a variety of viruses. In fact, Dr. Chrétien describes quercetin as a “broad spectrum antiviral” that has been shown in studies to be effective against such formidable diseases as SARS, the Ebola virus, and the Zika virus.

Incoming data from quercetin trial will be monitored minute-by-minute from Montreal

In a series of interviews and articles, Dr. Chrétien has released details of the imminent study. Once the team is granted approval to send the quercetin to China, samples will be delivered to the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Wuhan.

Canadian and Chinese scientists will then collaborate on the trials, which will involve about 1,000 test patients. Drs. Chretien and Mbikay will join colleagues from the non-profit International Consortium of Antivirals (which Chrétien helped to found in 2004 as a response to the SARS epidemic) in maintaining a round-the-clock communications center.

From there, they will be able monitor patients’ progress in Wuhan, including viewing patients’ charts and X-rays. According to Dr. Chrétien, it may be possible to have results on quercetin’s ability to treat COVID within 60 days of the beginning of the trial.

“Bingo! It works!” Groundbreaking researcher’s earlier studies on SARS and Ebola laid the groundwork for current COVID research

Since the 2003 SARS outbreak – which infected over 8,000 patients in 26 countries – Dr. Chrétien has been studying potential treatments (including quercetin) for the virus, in the event that it resurfaces. And, while clinical trials haven’t yet been performed, quercetin has shown great promise in combating SARS (severe acute respiratory distress) in animal models.

This is very significant, because COVID-19 is structurally similar to SARS. In fact, the new coronavirus is also known as SARS-CoV-2. And, earlier research has given cause for hope.

In a 2014 study published in Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy, Drs. Chrétien and Mbikay concluded that a glucosylated form of quercetin (Quercetin 3-B-O-D glucoside) targeted various steps of viral entry and protected mice against the Ebola virus.

The team also learned that pre-treatment with quercetin, rather than post-treatment, offered the best protection. In a recent interview with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation News Network, Dr. Chrétien offered a more informal reaction to the Ebola study’s encouraging results.

“Bingo! It worked!” he recalled.

Dr. Chrétien, who is generally recognized as one of the most renowned scientists and medical researchers in the world, has a strong emotional and professional connection with China.

He received training under noted Chinese researcher Dr. C.H. Li, and served as an honorary professor at both the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences and Peking Union Medical College.

This therapy is non-toxic, safe and pre-approved for use by humans

The good news: the FDA has already approved quercetin as safe for human consumption – meaning that no animal testing is necessary. This also means that if the treatment works, it should be available quickly.

The quercetin will be in the form of easily-administered oral supplements. And, Dr. Chrétien asserts that quercetin is so safe that even the high doses used in the study will not cause side effects.

Co-researcher Dr. Mbikay notes that quercetin would cost a mere $2 a day – a negligible amount that stands in stark contrast to the $1,000-per- injection cost of existing COVID-19 treatments. “It (quercetin) doesn’t even compare in price,” Dr. Mbikay pointed out.

He added that he is particularly hopeful that quercetin could eventually be used to ease outbreaks in African countries – which he says lack the infrastructure for treating COVID-19.

A natural way to inhibit viral replication and defeat influenza

Quercetin, a plant pigment found in fruits and vegetables, is currently used to treat inflammatory diseases, reduce allergy symptoms and lower cholesterol.

But what is particularly relevant – especially now – is quercetin’s ability to boost the immune system and interfere with viral replication. In a review published in Viruses, the authors concluded that quercetin inhibited viral infections in the early stages – particularly during viral attachment and viral-cell fusion.

Quercetin has already shown the ability to inhibit both the A and B types of influenza, along with the H1N1 and the H3N2 viruses. Some forward-thinking physicians in the US already credit quercetin with being both safer and more effective than Tamiflu, the “gold standard” of medical therapies for influenza.

And, researchers are reporting that viruses seem to be incapable of developing immunity to quercetin – another huge plus.

To boost your own intake of dietary quercetin, opt for healthy amounts of organic unpeeled apples, dark cherries, cocoa, dark leafy greens, green tea and onions.

Quercetin is also available as a supplement, with natural healers advising typical dosages of 500 mg twice a day. As always, consult your own integrative healthcare provider before adding quercetin to your immune-boosting routine.

Discover a safe way to improve quercetin bioavailability and “supercharge” its therapeutic potential

It’s simple: be sure to consume vitamin C! Natural health experts already know that vitamin C has antioxidant, immune system-boosting and antiviral effects.

As reported previously in NaturalHealth365, high-dose IV vitamin C is already being used throughout China to help combat the COVID-19 outbreak – with three different new studies winning approval. On March 3, the government of Shanghai, China, announced its official recommendation that COVID-19 should be treated with high amounts of IV vitamin C.

Chinese scientists and physicians are reporting that high-dose vitamin C is achieving “good results in clinical applications.” They credit the nutrient with improving endothelial function and treating acute lung injury and respiratory distress.

In addition, vitamin C helps to regenerate quercetin and maintain its antioxidant properties – leading researchers to believe that combining the two could pack a double virus-fighting punch. And preliminary research seems to back this up!

In a study published in Journal of Research in Medical Sciences, researchers found that a combination of 500 mg of quercetin and 250 mg of vitamin C lessened cell damage and caused a marker of inflammation to decrease by 62 percent.

Natural health experts are currently recommending dosages of 3,000 to 6,000 mg of vitamin C a day to fight viral infection. However, consult your own integrative doctor before supplementing, because you may need much more – depending on the intensity of your infection.

Naturally, a strong immune system is of premier importance – especially in times such as these. Staying well hydrated, getting good quality sleep, keeping physically active, and eating organic fresh food can pay off in terms of maintaining a strong immune system.

No doubt, the question of whether quercetin is effective against COVID-19 remains to be seen in clinical studies. Dr. Chrétien, himself, is careful to warn against “false hope.” But, given the encouraging results of earlier studies, the hopes for quercetin may, indeed, be based in reality.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 12:37:04 PM
Breaking NEWS: Can quercetin help us to avoid the threat of coronavirus infection?

https://www.naturalhealth365.com/quercetin-covid-19-studies-3337.html

by: Lori Alton, staff writer | March 21, 2020


Every week, if not everyday, you will find articles that advertise they have the cure for COVID-19. If I was the owner of a laboratory, I'd be pushing my product too and getting the public to pressure government to fund my lab.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 22, 2020, 12:52:03 PM
Breaking NEWS: Can quercetin help us to avoid the threat of coronavirus infection?

https://www.naturalhealth365.com/quercetin-covid-19-studies-3337.html

by: Lori Alton, staff writer | March 21, 2020


Every week, if not everyday, you will find articles that advertise they have the cure for COVID-19. If I was the owner of a laboratory, I'd be pushing my product too and getting the public to pressure government to fund my lab.

Isn’t quercetin aka co enzyme Q10?

It’s very good for your heart.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 22, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
Having worked at Caregroup at Harvard Medical as well as Boston University Medical centers the profound irony is that most of these dedicated and talented Greek professionals work for even higher IQ Ashkenazi Jews who are the predominant Directors and C-level officers in the organizations that employ them...  At the end of the day we all serve somebody... Go figure.

The USA is not my country....... but yours.

When I made comments that your government and your country is run by the JEWS, ... I was been called various names.... especially  I was accused, falsely, to be Anti Semitic!

It's your country that every year give Isra(he)l many billions of $$ for their defence........when Americans are going to wake up?

I will not be surprised if behind the Pandemic of Corona Virus are Ashkenazi Jews too.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 22, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Canada now has over 1300 cases and growing like crazy.
Many Provinces have declared state of Emergency
they did that here today, because so many people were not following simple rules.

So now restricting us more, closing more public places and restricting groups to 5 or less.
Now regardless of where you come from, even in Canada you must self Isolate for 14 days.
Hopefully this slows it down.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 22, 2020, 02:39:54 PM
I have more time than usually as everything is closed now except the grocery stores and drive thru at fast food places. This guy notes that China closed over 20,000 wet markets in China where this disease and a number of previous coronavirus had crossed into Humans. But there still are many of these wet markets left in other Asian countries that continue to pose risk to the planet by possibly causing future pandemics. 

Journalist goes undercover at "wet markets", where the Coronavirus started | 60 Minutes Australia 


.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 22, 2020, 03:22:32 PM
Breaking NEWS: Can quercetin help us to avoid the threat of coronavirus infection?

While I concur with BillyB's post regarding possible cures, quacks, and other anti Wuhan Virus treatments.

It was interesting though as we were doing a pantry inventory I noted there was only one container of capers. We bought a few more, as we were checking out the woman next in line, a respectable distance behind us, commented that quercetin had some interesting properties and was being studied by her husband in there lab. In fact I did not understand what she was babbling about. I want to say she said Yale, but really did not want to hang around and have a discussion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 22, 2020, 04:13:38 PM
Quote
I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly. That was what really shocked me.”

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth."

Even if you survive ARDS, although some damage can heal, it can also do long-lasting damage to the lungs. They can get filled up with scar tissue. ARDS can lead to cognitive decline. Some people’s muscles waste away, and it takes them a long time to recover once they come off the ventilator.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients

Quote
Convicted rapist and fallen movie producer Harvey Weinstein has reportedly tested positive for coronavirus while in New York State prison

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jailed-harvey-weinstein-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-report

Now, who is the Hitperson?   :chuckle: :-\ ??? :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 22, 2020, 04:16:39 PM
I like Peter Hitchens as a writer, today he’s wrote a thought provoking piece on the Coronavirus: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8138675/PETER-HITCHENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 04:29:20 PM
I like Peter Hitchens as a writer, today he’s wrote a thought provoking piece on the Coronavirus: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8138675/PETER-HITCHENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

There's really no time to wait and think things out. The virus spreads fast and is dangerous. Italy took action against the virus as early as January and even with some controls, the hospitals now are overwhelmed and there aren't enough supplies. "Experts" who think this is no more dangerous than the flu obviously don't understand hospitals can easily cope with the number of people who get the flu every year. Without a cure, this is just the first round with the new virus. Even if we beat it down in a few weeks or months, it will be back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 22, 2020, 04:55:44 PM
I like Peter Hitchens as a writer, today he’s wrote a thought provoking piece on the Coronavirus: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8138675/PETER-HITCHENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

I think this is what the Italians thought at first. With 6 to 8 hundred deaths a day I think they see it a little differently.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 22, 2020, 06:08:24 PM
The response in Europe much like the USA.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/as-coronavirus-surges-a-frantic-europe-scrambles-for-hospital-beds-ventilators-supplies/ar-BB11xWLG?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 22, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
According to former CIA agent Robert David Steele the residents of Wuhan, China had weakened immune systems from radiation poisoning from new 5G towers AND were exposed to COVID19.

This video quickly shows how high the radiation is. It clearly exceeds healthy limits of radiation.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
Story from a medical worker in link below is a good read. Here's a sample pertaining to what he seen.

I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all…  what happens to a lot of these patients [is, t]hey suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure… the lungs are filled with fluid… With our coronavirus patients, once they’re on ventilators, most need about the highest settings that we can do… [It] is nearly as high as I’ve ever seen. The level we’re at means we are running out of options. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly.”


    “It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning… They are essentially drowning in their own blood and fluids because their lungs are so full…


http://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 22, 2020, 06:34:42 PM
I like Peter Hitchens as a writer, today he’s wrote a thought provoking piece on the Coronavirus: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8138675/PETER-HITCHENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

An excellent article. Are you now beginning to wake up, engage your critical thinking skills and realize how a despotic government can use this to steal your Liberty?


Quote
“Did you know that the Government and Opposition had originally agreed that there would not even be a vote on these measures? Even Vladimir Putin might hesitate before doing anything so blatant. If there is no serious rebellion against this plan in the Commons, then I think we can commemorate tomorrow, March 23, 2020, as the day Parliament died. Yet, as far as I can see, the population cares more about running out of lavatory paper. Praise must go to David Davis and Chris Bryant, two MPs who have bravely challenged this measure.”


More

“All the crudest weapons of despotism, the curfew, the presumption of guilt and the power of arbitrary arrest, are taking shape in the midst of what used to be a free country. And we, who like to boast of how calm we are in a crisis, seem to despise our ancient hard-bought freedom and actually want to rush into the warm, firm arms of Big Brother.

Imagine, police officers forcing you to be screened for a disease, and locking you up for 48 hours if you object. Is this China or Britain? Think how this power could be used against, literally, anybody.”

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 22, 2020, 06:44:36 PM

Don't worry Confederate. Western nations aren't willing to take the same actions as China so we will have to deal with the virus again and again and again until we get it right.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 22, 2020, 07:15:59 PM
 Robert David Steele this guy is a fake. If he was an ex CIA agent with current connections posting videos, the government would have picked him up a long time ago. If he was a Russian agent he would had an accident, Chinese agent he would disappeared to never be seen again, A USA agent his family might get to see him in about two years. When you join the CIA you sign you rights away. You can not be on the internet doing this kind of stuff. You said you had a clearance. You should know this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 22, 2020, 08:11:53 PM
Robert David Steele this guy is a fake. If he was an ex CIA agent with current connections posting videos, the government would have picked him up a long time ago. If he was a Russian agent he would had an accident, Chinese agent he would disappeared to never be seen again, A USA agent his family might get to see him in about two years. When you join the CIA you sign you rights away. You can not be on the internet doing this kind of stuff. You said you had a clearance. You should know this.

There’s plenty of good intel out there, free, and it isn’t classified. Idiots like Gates, Kissinger and company constantly let things slip.

You’re too dumb to analyze the right information. That’s your problem.

You still think aluminum airplanes can take down steel reinforced buildings. Physics laws only deviate for dumb sheep.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 22, 2020, 08:26:26 PM
Well the silver lining here is the Chinese and their Globalist Democrat traitorous partners have pissed off DoD, 28 million living veterans, the US Senate and most of America for removing any doubt that they launched this bio war against us to hit back over tarriffs over the Chinese illegal trade manipulations and organized industrial espionage...

China Threatens to Throw America 'Into the Mighty Sea of the Coronavirus.'

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-threatens-throw-america-mighty-sea-coronavirus-130877

China is threatening to wreak havoc on America’s drug supply amid the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak. Thanks to our globalist elite and especially missteps during the Obama-Biden administration, Beijing has the power to do just that.

In an article in Xinhua, one of the Chinese Communist Party’s mouthpieces, Beijing threatened that it can impose pharmaceutical export controls after which America will be “plunged into the mighty sea of coronavirus.”

Unfortunately, Beijing isn’t bluffing about this capability.

As Rosemary Gibson, co-author of “China Rx: Exposing the Risks of America’s Dependence on China for Medicine,” testified to a congressional commission last summer, China has a dominant role in the manufacture of the generic drugs that comprise 90 percent of what Americans take.

The Chinese government has used its favorite playbook to make the world dependent on its drugs: protecting and subsidizing domestic manufacturers to undersell American competitors, aided by Chinese industrial espionage. Indeed, biotechnology is one of ten categories of Beijing’s “Made in China 2025” industrial strategy which has driven so much of its theft of intellectual property and dumping of goods at below-market prices to kill U.S. businesses.

To fix this medical vulnerability, Trump should apply gradually increasing, permanent tariffs on Chinese drugs and ingredients. He should also establish a strategic reserve of drugs by requiring the Defense Department and Veterans Affairs to buy only drugs that are 100 percent made in America. This domestic demand would create domestic supply.

Trump should also press drug companies to start a crash program to achieve supply chain independence from China. If would be great if he could achieve this through an appeal to patriotism. If not, he should use the Defense Production Act of 1950 to force the issue.

It’s time to reverse the globalist sellout of America that has put Beijing in charge of our drug supply chain
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 22, 2020, 08:34:52 PM

You still think aluminum airplanes can take down steel reinforced buildings. Physics laws only deviate for dumb sheep.

Interesting you should use physics to continue you wack job conspiracy theories re 911...

A spec of debris from dead satellite can cause a perfectly healthy one to be destroyed ..

Given that the aluminium planes had a greater mass and had more than 50 percent full avgas tanks and the planes exploded on impact.. cascading burning avgas ..

Well, you know.. it wasn't the impact than brought down the towers...




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 22, 2020, 08:40:28 PM
Well the silver lining here is the Chinese and their Globalist Democrat traitorous partners have pissed off DoD, 28 million living veterans, the US Senate and most of America for removing any doubt that they launched this bio war against us to hit back over tarriffs over the Chinese illegal trade manipulations and organized industrial espionage...

China Threatens to Throw America 'Into the Mighty Sea of the Coronavirus.'

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-threatens-throw-america-mighty-sea-coronavirus-130877

China is threatening to wreak havoc on America’s drug supply amid the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak. Thanks to our globalist elite and especially missteps during the Obama-Biden administration, Beijing has the power to do just that.

In an article in Xinhua, one of the Chinese Communist Party’s mouthpieces, Beijing threatened that it can impose pharmaceutical export controls after which America will be “plunged into the mighty sea of coronavirus.”

Unfortunately, Beijing isn’t bluffing about this capability.

As Rosemary Gibson, co-author of “China Rx: Exposing the Risks of America’s Dependence on China for Medicine,” testified to a congressional commission last summer, China has a dominant role in the manufacture of the generic drugs that comprise 90 percent of what Americans take.

The Chinese government has used its favorite playbook to make the world dependent on its drugs: protecting and subsidizing domestic manufacturers to undersell American competitors, aided by Chinese industrial espionage. Indeed, biotechnology is one of ten categories of Beijing’s “Made in China 2025” industrial strategy which has driven so much of its theft of intellectual property and dumping of goods at below-market prices to kill U.S. businesses.

To fix this medical vulnerability, Trump should apply gradually increasing, permanent tariffs on Chinese drugs and ingredients. He should also establish a strategic reserve of drugs by requiring the Defense Department and Veterans Affairs to buy only drugs that are 100 percent made in America. This domestic demand would create domestic supply.

Trump should also press drug companies to start a crash program to achieve supply chain independence from China. If would be great if he could achieve this through an appeal to patriotism. If not, he should use the Defense Production Act of 1950 to force the issue.

It’s time to reverse the globalist sellout of America that has put Beijing in charge of our drug supply chain

Hmm, 'biowar'..?

Where did you find that 'admission' ?...

If you are seeking a remedy to China's prominent manufacturing position...you will have do better than these works of fiction..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 22, 2020, 10:27:18 PM
Great article Cuffy! Hope you get well soon!

https://www.europeanbusinessreview.eu/page.asp?pid=3577
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 22, 2020, 11:36:56 PM
China Threatens to Throw America 'Into the Mighty Sea of the Coronavirus.'

Not quite. If you follow your link, it references a claim on Twitter, which in turn links to this Chinese article: http://www.xinhuanet.com/2020-03/04/c_1125660473.htm

If one translates the article, one can see context. Here is the relevant section:

 If at this time China announced that it would restrict the entry of Americans or people who have been to the United States, and that it would ban the travel of Chinese to the United States, it would actually impose a travel ban on the United States. It plummeted, but China did not.

  And everyone should know that when the new crown pneumonia epidemic broke out in Wuhan, Hubei, China, Trump ’s US government first announced the return of Americans from Wuhan, China, causing other countries to follow up, making China very passive at the time.

  Not only that, the U.S. government also announced that restricting the entry of Chinese and foreigners who have visited China into the U.S. is actually an indirect declaration of a travel ban on China, which isolates other countries in the world from China, and has a great economic impact on China. of.

  These practices in the United States are very unkind. They can be described as falling into the ground and killing people while they are ill. Now China's new crown pneumonia epidemic has been controlled. Except for Wuhan, new confirmed cases have been added in single digits. But it's getting worse.

  If China retaliates against the United States at this time, in addition to announcing a travel ban on the United States, it will also announce strategic control over medical products and ban exports to the United States. Then the United States will be caught in the ocean of new crown viruses.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 23, 2020, 03:14:24 AM
I like Peter Hitchens as a writer, today he’s wrote a thought provoking piece on the Coronavirus: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8138675/PETER-HITCHENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

I was listening live on a Greek radio, the comments of the Dr Ioannis Ioannidis (Greek) "Professor of Medicine, of epidemiology and population health, of biomedical data science, and of statistics at Stanford University in California" before reading Peter Hitchen comments in the Daily Mail and reference to the same Doctor.

Earlier on the same station I was listening a report from N.Y telling us that Tramp was late to make any decisions.....and only moved when he saw the number of infected and dying people......to increase rapidly...... NY Manhattan is in a Lock out.  Now Costa Line civil liners and also war boats are asked to act as Hospitals.

California and Minnesota are also in lockout and the tourist area in Florida.......gone empty.

This my 3rd week locked in the house...... and our garden. Lovely sunshine yesterday, hope will continue today too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 23, 2020, 03:48:40 AM
Manny, I understand Peter Hitchens' point and conceptually I agree with him. Just as USAians lost a whole lot after 9/11, so too, we carry the same risks now.

However, 9/11, whatever one's beliefs about what happened or how it happened, was a one-off. What is happening now, unless one is of the opinion that it is a massive hoax being perpetrated against the citizens of the world, is not. Covid-19, or to use the name more familiar to USAians China Virus, is an ongoing process that worsens over time to reach a huge climax that we can, in the final analysis, only hope to reduce somewhat, not eradicate.

So, as societies, we have a choice to make. Do we take sensible steps to protect ourselves or do we hold up our hands and accept the perception of the inevitable?

Even if I decide to do something about the situation and I choose to minimise interactions with other people, unless more than 75% of the population does so then my effort is for nothing. We know that for one reason or another, in the UK, people are ignoring the advice they have been given. They are choosing to pass their responsibilities off to somebody else, an external force. That force will take the steps to best protect the mass of people as a result of the abrogation of responsibility by a critical mass of the people.

If it takes legislation to enforce protection that is important for our whole society, then I am up for it. I am not happy about it - it was not inevitable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 23, 2020, 04:04:48 AM
You still think aluminium air-planes can take down steel reinforced buildings. Physics laws only deviate for dumb sheep.

Yes, it can, because of its momentum, not because of its density.

Check out the investigation of Space Shuttle explosion when it returned atmosphere.
A foam hit the space shuttle and opened a hole when it was being launched from ground.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 23, 2020, 04:15:09 AM
Yes, you finally understand China Wuhan virus can take down strong young people.

I told you last month.

HongKongers know them very well since year 2003.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 23, 2020, 04:21:08 AM
Speaking of investments:

We use UTAIR - a lot for flts from Sochi to Yervean and previously to Tbilisi and Moscow

Got this email from status@nl.utair.rul:



Hello!
Utair and BCS offer to use an investment product with a cute cashback.

Invest from 10 to 500 thousand rubles with a guaranteed yield of 10% and get up to 15 thousand bonus miles to your Utair Status account.

BCS will not only help to save funds and earn money on them, but also teach investing. At your service:

free courses and tests;
trading simulator for practice.
Start investing and learn right now!


Looks like they are either on their way out .. or I'll be missing out on a lot of free miles to places I cannot fly - at the mo ...


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 23, 2020, 04:24:48 AM
Great article Cuffy! Hope you get well soon!

https://www.europeanbusinessreview.eu/page.asp?pid=3577


Yes, it will.  And I hope ChiNazi lackeys will all jump out of the building very soon for the sake of their evil trades with $ChiNazi.

Then, the remaining upright people will build a new world order without ChiNazi.


Cheers!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 23, 2020, 04:32:15 AM
I choose to minimise interactions with other people.

British must also minimise interactions with ChiNazi lackeys, for example, the administrator of this site.

He asked me to talk with him through ChiNazi's Wechat software and I refused at once wisely.

Believe it or not.  If you stay closer to ChiNazi, you are closer to an unexpected disaster.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 23, 2020, 04:38:27 AM
Well the silver lining here is the Chinese and their Globalist Democrat traitorous partners have pissed off DoD, 28 million living veterans, the US Senate and most of America for removing any doubt that they launched this bio war against us to hit back over tarriffs over the Chinese illegal trade manipulations and organized industrial espionage...

China Threatens to Throw America 'Into the Mighty Sea of the Coronavirus.'

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-threatens-throw-america-mighty-sea-coronavirus-130877

Text removed to save e.ink as Manny says........

It’s time to reverse the globalist sellout of America that has put Beijing in charge of our drug supply chain

Poor cufflinks .... I know you are sick with a cold because of the wind created by the markets......GOING ..BOING AND STILL GOING DOWN.  :P

You forgot or you avoided to make reference to the following comment of one of the readers:

"Remind me again how many Americans died during the Ebola outbreak that the 'Obama - Biden' administration dealt with?

And how many schools and churches and restaurants had to close because of it?
Oh right -- NONE! Because it was dealt with rapidly, in a smart, professional manner -- it wasn't ignored for weeks on end while it got worse and worse, and managed to get a foothold inside our country.

At best, Trump is guilty of gross incompetence. At worst, deliberate, willful action to put American lives at risk in the hopes of helping his re-election campaign. He is the most shameful politician this country has ever seen. And the author of this article should be ashamed of themselves for writing this deceitful garbage."

Game, set and Match in few lines..  :chuckle: :chuckle:

BTW I was listening to a Greek economist who said......that now that the USA  Markets have collapsed  the Chinese are buying very cheap control of your failed industries....... so your economy.........is in the hands of some serious business men.... who know how to make money and not create Boom and Bust bubbles! :P

The end of your Empire is coming down faster than I was expected!

Poor Caffy don't forget to take your medicine... Made in China!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 23, 2020, 06:08:13 AM
Thanks for taking the time to share Chris. I'm in a reasonably fortunate position at present, with the bank topped up and ready for my April dividend. However, with lots of work literally just completed, I won't get paid unless everything pre-sold gets delivered and paid for from August-October. This is my main concern and it would adversely affect the income H2-Q4, causing issues this time next year.

With what's currently going on, I think its in my interest to see if there are any benefits going my way because nobody knows how bad or how long this will be. Particularly when employed blokes on £30k can sit at home and take £24k without a care in the world.

Most of the above I found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses

And unfortunately, my accountant is presently attempting to return from a holiday in New Zealand as we speak.

I've bought premises from where I run the business from and this section interested me;

Support for businesses that pay little or no business rates
The government will provide additional Small Business Grant Scheme funding for local authorities to support small businesses that already pay little or no business rates because of small business rate relief (SBBR), rural rate relief (RRR) and tapered relief. This will provide a one-off grant of £10,000 to eligible businesses to help meet their ongoing business costs.

Eligibility
You are eligible if:

your business is based in England
you are a small business and already receive SBBR and/or RRR
you are a business that occupies property


There VAT situation doesn't bother me because it'll need paid anyway. The cash is in the bank so I'll just get rid.

As I say, right now we're in a pretty decent position but depending on the duration of the crisis and what shape the economy is in once we get back up and running, its all about working out how both the wife and I would be classed, as directors and if there's a cash handout on the small business scheme.

I just made the wife a director rather than an employee last month too!  :'(

I'll add to it here once I get more info from the accountant.  :thumbsup:


What about all my members most over 80! If they all pop off due to the Virus I wonder what I would get in Russia? A bowl of soup and a herring I think.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 23, 2020, 06:11:56 AM
Thanks for taking the time to share Chris. I'm in a reasonably fortunate position at present, with the bank topped up and ready for my April dividend. However, with lots of work literally just completed, I won't get paid unless everything pre-sold gets delivered and paid for from August-October. This is my main concern and it would adversely affect the income H2-Q4, causing issues this time next year.

With what's currently going on, I think its in my interest to see if there are any benefits going my way because nobody knows how bad or how long this will be. Particularly when employed blokes on £30k can sit at home and take £24k without a care in the world.

Most of the above I found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses

And unfortunately, my accountant is presently attempting to return from a holiday in New Zealand as we speak.

I've bought premises from where I run the business from and this section interested me;

Support for businesses that pay little or no business rates
The government will provide additional Small Business Grant Scheme funding for local authorities to support small businesses that already pay little or no business rates because of small business rate relief (SBBR), rural rate relief (RRR) and tapered relief. This will provide a one-off grant of £10,000 to eligible businesses to help meet their ongoing business costs.

Eligibility
You are eligible if:

your business is based in England
you are a small business and already receive SBBR and/or RRR
you are a business that occupies property


There VAT situation doesn't bother me because it'll need paid anyway. The cash is in the bank so I'll just get rid.

As I say, right now we're in a pretty decent position but depending on the duration of the crisis and what shape the economy is in once we get back up and running, its all about working out how both the wife and I would be classed, as directors and if there's a cash handout on the small business scheme.

I just made the wife a director rather than an employee last month too!  :'(

I'll add to it here once I get more info from the accountant.  :thumbsup:


What about all my members most over 80! If they all pop off due to the Virus I wonder what I would get in Russia? A bowl of soup and a herring I think.. :laugh:

Aye but when it all blows over, the UK gravy train needs paid for. Big business, the unemployed and low earners will be fine. Self employed chaps and chapettes who run transparent businesses will get a proper bum raping me thinks.......like always!!

Back of the queue for the freebies, front of the queue for the arse shagging!!  >:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 23, 2020, 06:42:36 AM
Look forward to a decade of austerity, high vat and high taxes when it's all over.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 23, 2020, 07:20:38 AM
I'm about to start looking through the info regarding the eligibility of my business, given theres some financial support on the table from the UK government. Just wondering if any of you guys have done likewise?

A bit like the visa application process, there's a fine line between being self employed and a fully paid up Director of my Ltd company when it comes to this process.

I recall having a visa application knocked back any moons ago because the government considered me employed. I do hope that's the same now @ £2.5k/month.

My business is doing just fine. 99% of my work can be done remotely, and for the first time in history, I am allowed to work remotely. I do hope that 'management' finally sees that productivity doesn't drop if a worker is remote for a couple of weeks. I might move to Crimea before my retirement then. (but not before my 50.y , to get me a full pension from NL)

I also saw a Dutchie who lived in Barcelona (Spain) fulltime. He came back to NL once a month for the team-meeting and that was it.

Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 23, 2020, 07:25:19 AM
I'm about to start looking through the info regarding the eligibility of my business, given theres some financial support on the table from the UK government. Just wondering if any of you guys have done likewise?

A bit like the visa application process, there's a fine line between being self employed and a fully paid up Director of my Ltd company when it comes to this process.

I recall having a visa application knocked back any moons ago because the government considered me employed. I do hope that's the same now @ £2.5k/month.

My business is doing just fine. 99% of my work can be done remotely, and for the first time in history, I am allowed to work remotely. I do hope that 'management' finally sees that productivity doesn't drop if a worker is remote for a couple of weeks. I might move to Crimea before my retirement then. (but not before my 50.y , to get me a full pension from NL)

I also saw a Dutchie who lived in Barcelona (Spain) fulltime. He came back to NL once a month for the team-meeting and that was it.

Mark.

I suspect the world might just look at stuff differently after this. We're all trying to cut emissions etc so why drag millions of workers into offices at peak times, all clogging up the transport network, so they can sit at a desk and do what they could have done at home.

I accept many will try to take the piss but hopefully they're in the minority.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 08:23:14 AM

Although Italy is getting the lion's share of attention, there are nations that have a higher ratio of infections among their population Italy. They are Switzerland, Luxembourg, Iceland, Andorra, Faeroe Islands, Liechtenstein, Vatican City, and San Marino tops everybody with one out of 181 of their citizens being infected.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Harvey Weinstein must've been kissing on some prisoners and now is infected with the virus. He was in the hellhole called Rikers in NY and 40 inmates there are infected. I wonder if a prisoner showed him how a prison mob handle feels?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/harvey-weinstein-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-in-ny-state-prison-convicted-producer-in-isolation/ar-BB11xZf5?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 23, 2020, 10:25:18 AM
Well the silver lining here is the Chinese and their Globalist Democrat traitorous partners have pissed off DoD, 28 million living veterans, the US Senate and most of America for removing any doubt that they launched this bio war against us to hit back over tarriffs over the Chinese illegal trade manipulations and organized industrial espionage...

China Threatens to Throw America 'Into the Mighty Sea of the Coronavirus.'

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-threatens-throw-america-mighty-sea-coronavirus-130877

Text removed to save e.ink as Manny says........

It’s time to reverse the globalist sellout of America that has put Beijing in charge of our drug supply chain

Poor cufflinks .... I know you are sick with a cold because of the wind created by the markets......GOING ..BOING AND STILL GOING DOWN.  :P

You forgot or you avoided to make reference to the following comment of one of the readers:

"Remind me again how many Americans died during the Ebola outbreak that the 'Obama - Biden' administration dealt with?

And how many schools and churches and restaurants had to close because of it?
Oh right -- NONE! Because it was dealt with rapidly, in a smart, professional manner -- it wasn't ignored for weeks on end while it got worse and worse, and managed to get a foothold inside our country.

At best, Trump is guilty of gross incompetence. At worst, deliberate, willful action to put American lives at risk in the hopes of helping his re-election campaign. He is the most shameful politician this country has ever seen. And the author of this article should be ashamed of themselves for writing this deceitful garbage."

Game, set and Match in few lines..  :chuckle: :chuckle:

BTW I was listening to a Greek economist who said......that now that the USA  Markets have collapsed  the Chinese are buying very cheap control of your failed industries....... so your economy.........is in the hands of some serious business men.... who know how to make money and not create Boom and Bust bubbles! :P

The end of your Empire is coming down faster than I was expected!

Poor Caffy don't forget to take your medicine... Made in China!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Unlike the evil Jew hating America hating Wizz gloating over the USA deaths and carnage caused by this Chinese Virus biowar.... The attitude displayed by the enemies of the USA like Wizz and his spiritual brothers in the CCP has now put them in the same league as Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda and ISIS.  All of whom paid a severe price as will the CCP.

The translation that Manny posted even with it's highly sympathetic tone to the CCP is just like the WWII London Air Raid sirens in it's psychological impact.   The Chinese declared economic warfare against the USA several decades ago which they have escalated now to biowarfare...

The repercussions from this blatant biowarfare attack on the USA will be dramatically more severe than our response to 9-11.   The enemies of the USA here can disparage me all they like it just fuels and hardens all American Patriots resolve for justice and Victory.

OBTW God King Celtic Nordic Teutonic Emporer Trump activated the Defense Production Act which authorizes POTUS to nationalize any industry to defend the USA so the Gloating Communist Freaking Red Chinese trying to steal USA companies for pennies on the dollar as a result of their biowarfare collapsing world equities markets have a day of rekoning coming soon.

Think of it just like when fighter pilot George W standing on the smoking rubble of the WTC and thousands of tough NYC firefighters and rescue workers started Cheering USA USA USA...

The Great Patriot W said into a Bullhorn

I hear YOU...

America hears YOU...

And the people who did this will hear from YOU REAL SOON
.

Like Wizz the CCP has proven themselves to be Enemies of the US Constitution that all Patriots pledge to defend with their lives.

Things are about to get real serious.


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 23, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
Many thanks to Chris for the info ...

some light relief :

How our wives might be dressing to shop, 'safely'?

https://www.facebook.com/shoooric/videos/2910793055643973/?hc_location=ufi

..and to shame the toilet rolls hoarders ;)   [ " Master Shitters "]

https://thepooptool.com/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 23, 2020, 11:02:59 AM
I always have a plan B for emergencies! But on this occasion I also had plan C which I'm implicating right now..

We took a flight to Alpha Centauri going to take us 2.5 million years to get there.. we will spend 12 months there and hope the virus problem is solved then head back to Earth..im about to go into Hyper sleep..

The good part of it is when we finally get back to Earth just 8 months would of past.. :laugh:


(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90237859_10216741702191658_8887622606396588032_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlwtOQXagHs5NWVvg1aWSYtCG8RfXlKNmTXVrQRYMNilVEOf9-KjP33rPjs3J4vbdg&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=b4b6ff7b025a03d74ee54b4880f66fb9&oe=5EA01CD8)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 23, 2020, 12:00:59 PM
NFG

Newly released data from Italy’s Civil Protection revealed that the country’s death toll has gone from 5,476 deaths on Sunday to 6,078 on Monday, as well as from 59,138 confirmed cases on Sunday to 63,919 on Monday
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on March 23, 2020, 12:26:06 PM
Newly released data from Italy’s Civil Protection revealed that the country’s death toll has gone from 5,476 deaths on Sunday to 6,078 on Monday, as well as from 59,138 confirmed cases on Sunday to 63,919 on Monday

A friend of my wild Moscow days who lives in a beach town in Tuscany says everyone is basically on house arrest and can be put in jail if caught outside doing anything but shopping for food or seeking medical attention.   

Personally, the way local authorities are dealing with this is coming damn close to violating my 1st Amendment Constitutional rights.  Shelter in place my ass.  “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 23, 2020, 12:31:40 PM
NFG

Newly released data from Italy’s Civil Protection revealed that the country’s death toll has gone from 5,476 deaths on Sunday to 6,078 on Monday, as well as from 59,138 confirmed cases on Sunday to 63,919 on Monday

6000 is still only 0.01% of population in Italy though. Just for perspective. And a most of those will be coffin dodgers or those with other medical issues.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 23, 2020, 01:21:04 PM

6000 is still only 0.01% of population in Italy though. Just for perspective. And a most of those will be coffin dodgers or those with other medical issues.

I am glad your wife checks the books .. not you ..

60,000 divided by 6k is 0.001



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 01:42:24 PM
NFG

Newly released data from Italy’s Civil Protection revealed that the country’s death toll has gone from 5,476 deaths on Sunday to 6,078 on Monday, as well as from 59,138 confirmed cases on Sunday to 63,919 on Monday

6000 is still only 0.01% of population in Italy though. Just for perspective. And a most of those will be coffin dodgers or those with other medical issues.

Current case fatality rate in Italy is horrible. If everybody in Italy got this virus just once, over 10 million will die. Just think if a person had to battle the virus once or multiple times a year. If it doesn't kill you the first few times you get it, it may get you on the 5th try. The reason governments are trying so hard to stop the virus is because we don't want it to infect every person because we can already predict a death toll that is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 23, 2020, 03:17:46 PM
Another Insider data -
From January to February in ChiNazi, number of mobile phone users has dropped by about 18,000,000.

Assuming that each person uses 1 to 2 phones simultaneously, the number of disappeared phone users is about 9,000,000 to 18,000,000.

Source is in Chinese language at this moment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 23, 2020, 04:56:14 PM

6000 is still only 0.01% of population in Italy though. Just for perspective. And a most of those will be coffin dodgers or those with other medical issues.

I am glad your wife checks the books .. not you ..

60,000 divided by 6k is 0.001

You are calculating different things.

Manny's equation
6,000   ÷ 60,000,000               = .0001 = .01%
Deaths ÷ Population of Italy     
Manny's math is correct

Your equation (was set up backwards) but set up correctly
looks like this
6,000   ÷  60,000 = .1 or 10%
Deaths ÷  Those known to be infected 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 23, 2020, 05:33:25 PM
Quote
•Younger generations are calling the coronavirus pandemic the "boomer remover,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/certain-horrible-subset-internet-calling-160000031.html

AKA "baby boomer eradicator".  The virus is a global instrument to wipe out the post WWII generation to prevent the flood of pensioners onto the global economy.  Albeit, there will be some "outliers" who will succumb to it, they are acceptable collateral damage .  This is an effort to wipe out the massive deficits that will burden global budgets in the near future.  It's all about the money.   (:) :duh: :money: :rouble-smile:

Quote
He said contracting the virus would be a severe blow to any athlete in training.

https://sports.yahoo.com/coronavirus-no-joke-olympic-gold-medallist-van-der-031753122--oly.html

So, the virus only affects those not in good health?  People in peak health are not affected?    :duh: (:) :P

Quote
A medical professional has summed up why social distancing is so important by explaining how one person with the coronavirus could infect almost 60,000 others.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-outbreak-social-distancing-163247866.html

What?   Me worry?  Not a problem.    :duh: (:) :'( :dh:



My office building has been closed as COB today until further notice.  I guess I will get a preview of retired life now.   :nod: :chuckle: tiphat :thumbsup: :king:

Stay safe and clean and live like a hermit.   :8)


Quote
Thousands of residents in Bangkok converged on bus and train stations last night (March 22) as they fled the city amid a coronavirus lockdown.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-100-000-people-flee-210000529.html

I don't think fleeing en masse is a good thing.   :o :sick0012: :duh: :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 23, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
The number of deaths is far less than it would been if no body did anything. Almost nobody has immunity to this disease so without social distancing nearly everyone would catch it. Since seventeen per cent of the population needs Hospital care with out any control or work on part of government out of the 60,000,000 people in Italy over ten percent of them would die.  Without social distancing the hospital would be so over run it would be like they did not exist. Just because since the government5s efforts are able to keep the numbers small does not mean the effort should be abandon. Quite the opposite they are making a huge difference and saving a very lot of lives. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 06:07:36 PM
Another Insider data -
From January to February in ChiNazi, number of mobile phone users has dropped by about 18,000,000.

Assuming that each person uses 1 to 2 phones simultaneously, the number of disappeared phone users is about 9,000,000 to 18,000,000.

Source is in Chinese language at this moment.

My mom who reads Vietnamese news read something like that this morning pertaining to China.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 23, 2020, 06:40:43 PM



6000 is still only 0.01% of population in Italy though. Just for perspective. And a most of those will be coffin dodgers or those with other medical issues.

I am glad your wife checks the books .. not you ..

60,000 divided by 6k is 0.001


You are calculating different things.

Manny's equation
6,000   ÷ 60,000,000               = .0001 = .01%
Deaths ÷ Population of Italy     
Manny's math is correct

Your equation (was set up backwards) but set up correctly
looks like this
6,000   ÷  60,000 = .1 or 10%
Deaths ÷  Those known to be infected

'Thank you', Beel - Sorry, Manny

Back to school for Moby ((
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 23, 2020, 08:44:56 PM
Newly released data from Italy’s Civil Protection revealed that the country’s death toll has gone from 5,476 deaths on Sunday to 6,078 on Monday, as well as from 59,138 confirmed cases on Sunday to 63,919 on Monday

A friend of my wild Moscow days who lives in a beach town in Tuscany says everyone is basically on house arrest and can be put in jail if caught outside doing anything but shopping for food or seeking medical attention.   

Personally, the way local authorities are dealing with this is coming damn close to violating my 1st Amendment Constitutional rights.  Shelter in place my ass.  “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

 :thumbsup:

Some pretty evil people want to deliberately crash the World economy IMO and their intentions toward normal human beings is nefarious.

Let’s hope I’m wrong, at least this time!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 23, 2020, 08:51:02 PM
Robert David Steele this guy is a fake. If he was an ex CIA agent with current connections posting videos, the government would have picked him up a long time ago. If he was a Russian agent he would had an accident, Chinese agent he would disappeared to never be seen again, A USA agent his family might get to see him in about two years. When you join the CIA you sign you rights away. You can not be on the internet doing this kind of stuff. You said you had a clearance. You should know this.

Tex if you don’t like Robert David Steele then you won’t like Gordon Duff either.

Quote

“It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan,” Zhao suggested, calling for the CDC – and the US in general – to “be transparent” and share what they know about where and when “Patient Zero” was first diagnosed.

Source
Veterans Today

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/21/china-us-brought-covid19-to-china-during-army-games-hid-disease-in-us-as-influenza/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 23, 2020, 08:55:44 PM
Quote

“The United States government has lost control over its foreign, economic and security policies in favor of a cabal that has infiltrated every level of the United States.  VT has been repeatedly warned, by FBI whistleblowers in 2012 and 2014, by Russian intelligence that turns to us out of frustration and even by key members of our defense and intelligence community.”


https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/23/precursor-to-cv-19-yes-we-mean-9-11/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 23, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Maybe you like this other fake Alex Jones of infowars. He also claims to be a patriot and support all this kind of stuff in the name of protecting the USA. Russia hires a lot of these actors to create fate information. They are patriots exposing the problems with the USA to better protect our way of life.  At least Gordon Duff had a real job once someplace in the UK. If he was telling real info why is he in the same interview with Steele. Obviously he sold out and wanted the big money to create fake news. If this stuff was any funnier it would be on "Saturday Night Live."

Scientist are able to USE the DNA of the virus and tell where is came from. It was transfer from bats to an small anteater and then to humans not transfer by the USA army. Wake up to the real world. This is a product of wet markets like other coronaviruses have been. China has closed down over 20,000 of these wet markets to try to keep this from happening again.

Noticed none of these guys are trying to earn any money. This is because they are funded.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 23, 2020, 10:14:39 PM
Maybe you like this other fake Alex Jones of infowars. He also claims to be a patriot and support all this kind of stuff in the name of protecting the USA. Russia hires a lot of these actors to create fate information. They are patriots exposing the problems with the USA to better protect our way of life.  At least Gordon Duff had a real job once someplace in the UK. If he was telling real info why is he in the same interview with Steele. Obviously he sold out and wanted the big money to create fake news. If this stuff was any funnier it would be on "Saturday Night Live."

Scientist are able to USE the DNA of the virus and tell where is came from. It was transfer from bats to an small anteater and then to humans not transfer by the USA army. Wake up to the real world. This is a product of wet markets like other coronaviruses have been. China has closed down over 20,000 of these wet markets to try to keep this from happening again.

Noticed none of these guys are trying to earn any money. This is because they are funded.

LOL!

Yes I agree, Gordon Duff says a lot of BS. No doubt he’s probably a government funded disinformation site.

Robert David Steele is far better. YMMV.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 23, 2020, 11:26:30 PM

Quote

“It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan,” Zhao suggested, calling for the CDC – and the US in general – to “be transparent” and share what they know about where and when “Patient Zero” was first diagnosed.

Source
Veterans Today

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/21/china-us-brought-covid19-to-china-during-army-games-hid-disease-in-us-as-influenza/

Here's the problem with China saying the American military brought the virus to their country. The American military was there and left in October. China already made a statement the virus was first discovered in late December. Their citizens are pissed on how the government handled the outbreak. The Chinese government is now trying to rewrite history and blame it on someone else. They quarantined Wuhan Jan 23 but before that they allowed 5 million people to escape and allowed millions in before the quarantine during New Years migration. The Chinese government should be charged with murder knowing a killer virus is loose. I'm sure some of those 5 million Wuhan citizens that escaped came to our nations which has led to trillions of dollars worth of economic damage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 24, 2020, 02:29:34 AM
Guys the UK is officially on lockdown!! anyone affected?  London gonna be a ghost town soon. all those dudes on the tube not practicing social distancing. cases of the virus have exponentially gone up this week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 03:34:38 AM
Well the silver lining here is the Chinese and their Globalist Democrat traitorous partners have pissed off DoD, 28 million living veterans, the US Senate and most of America for removing any doubt that they launched this bio war against us to hit back over tarriffs over the Chinese illegal trade manipulations and organized industrial espionage...

China Threatens to Throw America 'Into the Mighty Sea of the Coronavirus.'

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-threatens-throw-america-mighty-sea-coronavirus-130877

Text removed to save e.ink as Manny says........

It’s time to reverse the globalist sellout of America that has put Beijing in charge of our drug supply chain

Poor cufflinks .... I know you are sick with a cold because of the wind created by the markets......GOING ..BOING AND STILL GOING DOWN.  :P

You forgot or you avoided to make reference to the following comment of one of the readers:

"Remind me again how many Americans died during the Ebola outbreak that the 'Obama - Biden' administration dealt with?

And how many schools and churches and restaurants had to close because of it?
Oh right -- NONE! Because it was dealt with rapidly, in a smart, professional manner -- it wasn't ignored for weeks on end while it got worse and worse, and managed to get a foothold inside our country.

At best, Trump is guilty of gross incompetence. At worst, deliberate, willful action to put American lives at risk in the hopes of helping his re-election campaign. He is the most shameful politician this country has ever seen. And the author of this article should be ashamed of themselves for writing this deceitful garbage."

Game, set and Match in few lines..  :chuckle: :chuckle:

BTW I was listening to a Greek economist who said......that now that the USA  Markets have collapsed  the Chinese are buying very cheap control of your failed industries....... so your economy.........is in the hands of some serious business men.... who know how to make money and not create Boom and Bust bubbles! :P

The end of your Empire is coming down faster than I was expected!

Poor Caffy don't forget to take your medicine... Made in China!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Unlike the evil Jew hating America hating Wizz gloating over the USA deaths and carnage caused by this Chinese Virus biowar.... The attitude displayed by the enemies of the USA like Wizz and his spiritual brothers in the CCP has now put them in the same league as Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda and ISIS.  All of whom paid a severe price as will the CCP.

The translation that Manny posted even with it's highly sympathetic tone to the CCP is just like the WWII London Air Raid sirens in it's psychological impact.   The Chinese declared economic warfare against the USA several decades ago which they have escalated now to biowarfare...

The repercussions from this blatant biowarfare attack on the USA will be dramatically more severe than our response to 9-11.   The enemies of the USA here can disparage me all they like it just fuels and hardens all American Patriots resolve for justice and Victory.

OBTW God King Celtic Nordic Teutonic Emporer Trump activated the Defense Production Act which authorizes POTUS to nationalize any industry to defend the USA so the Gloating Communist Freaking Red Chinese trying to steal USA companies for pennies on the dollar as a result of their biowarfare collapsing world equities markets have a day of rekoning coming soon.

Think of it just like when fighter pilot George W standing on the smoking rubble of the WTC and thousands of tough NYC firefighters and rescue workers started Cheering USA USA USA...

The Great Patriot W said into a Bullhorn

I hear YOU...

America hears YOU...

And the people who did this will hear from YOU REAL SOON
.

Like Wizz the CCP has proven themselves to be Enemies of the US Constitution that all Patriots pledge to defend with their lives.

Things are about to get real serious.


###

I hope you took your pills by now...... so to keep you busy and informed take a look at this articel:

Corona Is a Very Mild Virus, No More Deadly Than Many Others but We Don’t Make a Fuss About (https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444?ct=t(Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014)&mc_cid=024db0d5a6&mc_eid=da9ae1910f)

(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/main/2020-Mar-20/fear_channels_tina_toon.jpg?itok=ehkro6lW)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 24, 2020, 04:15:27 AM
Corona Is a Very Mild Virus, No More Deadly Than Many Others but We Don’t Make a Fuss About
Thats absolutely not true wiz. Friday 20-march Italy had 3000 deaths due to corona, todat 23-march italy has 6000 deaths... thats a lot of dead in 3 days.

All the other "mild" viruses have their prognosis measured over a whole year, yet corona is now only 2 months in the statistics, therefore cannot yet be compared like that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 24, 2020, 04:16:19 AM
to keep you busy and informed take a look at this articel:

 https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444 (https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444)



The article is as 'informed' as you, Wiz .. .i,e. not ...

Let's say the USA death rate was 1 percent... that's 330k folk and the hospitals won't cope risking other folks lives

WHY do you suggest folk read stuff that is risible ... ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 24, 2020, 05:52:13 AM
So much for vibrant diversity is our strength... This politically correct SJW virtue signaling foundational rule has just be disintegrated by the Covid19 Corona virus.

Homogenous South Korea seeing how this virus cut like a buzz saw through rice paddies in ChiCom decided on 4 key basics. Everyone was tested,. Everyone wears masks in public most look like quality reusable masks as these drastically reduce droplets respiration transmission.

Everyone has high speed broadband so work and study from home.

Standard hygiene practices abound and a month in SK has flattened the curve.

Contrast with the Vibrant Diversity Petri dishes of Bergamo,  London, New York City and New Orleans and regions where the Covid19 is cutting through the Population like buzz saws in horror movies.

So much for Vibrant Diversity brainwashing!!!


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 24, 2020, 07:26:10 AM
Coming from different sources one clear EARLY indication of contracting Wuhan Virus is the loss of the sense of taste and smell.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 24, 2020, 08:02:24 AM

I hope you took your pills by now...... so to keep you busy and informed take a look at this articel:

Corona Is a Very Mild Virus, No More Deadly Than Many Others but We Don’t Make a Fuss About (https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444?ct=t(Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014)&mc_cid=024db0d5a6&mc_eid=da9ae1910f)

(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/main/2020-Mar-20/fear_channels_tina_toon.jpg?itok=ehkro6lW)

 tiphat

Wiz,  I am so happy you have an adult wife who will take care of you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 24, 2020, 08:18:39 AM
Coming from different sources one clear EARLY indication of contracting Wuhan Virus is the loss of the sense of taste and smell.

What about Sense of humor ? I mean what ever happens in life you need to keep some sense of humor .. the end of the day its just a virus, life will go on and all will be fixed.. I wonder how people would manage with a meteor strike a big one.. cos that is going to happen any time... BANG no sunlight for 2 years , internet down, molten glass coming down for 1000 miles around the impact zone and much much much worse..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 24, 2020, 08:34:41 AM
Coming from different sources one clear EARLY indication of contracting Wuhan Virus is the loss of the sense of taste and smell.

What about Sense of humor ? I mean what ever happens in life you need to keep some sense of humor .. the end of the day its just a virus, life will go on and all will be fixed.. I wonder how people would manage with a meteor strike a big one.. cos that is going to happen any time... BANG no sunlight for 2 years , internet down, molten glass coming down for 1000 miles around the impact zone and much much much worse..

RUA has Wiz & ms, is that not enough humor?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 24, 2020, 10:07:20 AM
Another Insider data -
From January to February in ChiNazi, number of mobile phone users has dropped by about 18,000,000.

Assuming that each person uses 1 to 2 phones simultaneously, the number of disappeared phone users is about 9,000,000 to 18,000,000.

Source is in Chinese language at this moment.

My mom who reads Vietnamese news read something like that this morning pertaining to China.


Insider video - workers were cleaning up ownerless mobile phones!!!
Video only from 3:17 to 3:29

Remember - lithium batteries cannot be burnt in crematorium! They explode under heat!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 24, 2020, 10:18:18 AM
Quote
“And right now that is at risk, and I feel like, as the president said, the mortality rate is so low, do we have to shut down the whole country for this?”

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/texas-lt-governor-suggests-elderly-should-risk-lives-save-economy-050531075.html

Quote
'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
   (:)

Well, YOU first.   :ROFL:   :GRAVE: :pointlaugh:

It's all about the money.    :nod: :money:


Quote
“I was like, ‘Holy shit, this may be something that actually works,’ ” he says.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/boober-eats-lucky-devil-lounge-strip-club-covid-19-coronavirus-quarantine-971544/

"boober eats".     :evilgrin0002: :chuckle: :knit: :eeekk:

Quote
For $30 I'll deliver burger to your door in a speedo. I'm very certain you don't want to see that, my wife doesn't even want to see that, but I'll do it for $30.
    :ROFL: :scared0005: :hidechair:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 24, 2020, 11:05:48 AM


SB said:

What about Sense of humor ? I mean what ever happens in life you need to keep some sense of humor .. the end of the day its just a virus, life will go on and all will be fixed.. I wonder how people would manage with a meteor strike a big one.. cos that is going to happen any time... BANG no sunlight for 2 years , internet down, molten glass coming down for 1000 miles around the impact zone and much much much worse.

...

While SB has been cracking the NIHILIST VODKA to boost our spirits during stay at home orders...

If you can see the whites of your eyes you are likely good to go...

A coronavrus symptom that the CDC has not reported: red eyes.

Quote:
Nurse: Sickest Coronavirus Patients Have Red Eyes
By Jeffrey Rodack | Tuesday, 24 March 2020 08:11 AM

Chelsey Earnest, a veteran registered nurse who cared for coronavirus patients at a Kirkland, Washington, nursing home — which was hit hard by the outbreak — said the sickest ones all seemed to have red eyes.

"It's something that I witnessed in all of them (the patients)," she told CNN. "They have, like ... allergy eyes. The white part of the eye is not red. It's more like they have red eye shadow on the outside of their eyes."

The news network said for Earnest and her colleagues at the Life Care Center and admitting doctors at a nearby hospital, the red eyes had become the sign the coronavirus had struck.

"We've had patients that just had the red eyes as the only symptom that we saw and go to the hospital and pass away," she said.

"I've even had the disaster medical control physician say, 'Do they have the red eyes?' And I will say yes. And he'll say, 'I'll find you a bed.' It's just something about this, the way that it affects these patients."

The New York Times reported that since the first positive test at Life Care came back in late February, 129 people there — including 81 residents — have tested positive for the virus and 35 people have died.

In an alert to its members on Sunday, the American Academy of Ophthalmology noted there are several reports that COVID-19 can lead to conjunctivitis, which can lead to a reddening of and around the eyes.

And All About Vision reported that coronavirus patients may have ocular symptoms. It specifically cited conjunctivitis, often referred to as "pink eye."

However, red or pink eyes are not on the list of coronavirus symptoms by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Those symptoms include fever, cough, and shortness of breath.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 24, 2020, 11:26:41 AM
Knives Out social distancing.


https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2493131/knives-out-cant-stop-wont-stop-hilariously-encouraging-fans-to-practice-social-distancing
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 24, 2020, 11:29:46 AM
Quote
Prime Minister Narendra Modi ordered a "complete" lockdown for India's 1.3 billion people on Tuesday, warning that "many families will be destroyed forever"

Quote
"According to health experts, a minimum of 21 days is most crucial to break the cycle of infection. If we are not able to manage this pandemic in the next 21 days, the country and your family will be setback by 21 years. If we are not able to manage the next 21 days, then many families will be destroyed forever," Modi said.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/india-population-1-3-billion-orders-complete-coronavirus-lockdown/ar-BB11DZWt?li=BBnb7Kz

1.3 billion lockdown?    :scared0005: :o ???

I see a corona virus "feeding frenzy" coming.   :o :( :scared0005: :hidechair: :snivel:

The "bottom of the food chain" will never stop to take down the "top of the food chain".    :nod:

Quote
You can destroy a country this way by closing it down where it literally goes from being the most prosperous,"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-hopes-to-have-economy-reopen-by-easter/ar-BB11DYVr?li=BBnb7Kz

It will rise again at the end of Lent.    :bow:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
to keep you busy and informed take a look at this articel:

 https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444 (https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444)



The article is as 'informed' as you, Wiz .. .i,e. not ...

Let's say the USA death rate was 1 percent... that's 330k folk and the hospitals won't cope risking other folks lives

WHY do you suggest folk read stuff that is risible ... ?

Have you stopped to read the article I posted the link, and interrupted your usual occupation on Skype or looking old photos?

I am very surprised......

I never thought anybody can match you intelligence Mr Einstein, after the popularity I have seen on this board for your Trolling and person!

Obviously you must be bored out of your mind........  :fighting0025:

When are you going to meet your new wife?

Keep playing the clarinet !   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


PS: Can the Admin split the threat and move the posts about Government money etc.......It will make sense for the interested members to have their own thread.
Just my view.  tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 24, 2020, 11:53:22 AM
Keep playing the clarinet !   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Speaking for myself I would rather not hear any sounds from ms.  :sick0012:

PS: Can the Admin split the threat and move the posts about Government money etc.......It will make sense for the interested members to have their own thread.
Just my view.  tiphat

I concur.

Modification, Done as I was typing, thank you! 
tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on March 24, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
In my humble opinion "social distancing" does nothing but MULTIPLY the length of time the disease will be present by 2x to 5x. 

Been reading some articles on "herd immunization" and this seems like a better alternative for the economy, the population as a whole and allocation of scare medical resources.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 24, 2020, 12:05:41 PM
I've took to wearing the masks on Chinese planes and in very crowded spaces. I always have anti bac gel with me too. I'd be using both at JFK now.


Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

BillyB

WHY do you persist it posting BOLLOX about masks ?

Just heard a NHS Doctor complain there's a of shortage filtered masks in his region of the UK for Intensive Care usage and General Practitioners are only being issued Surgical Masks which are useless


Who to believe BillyB or a Doc .. ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 24, 2020, 12:09:53 PM
In my humble opinion "social distancing" does nothing but MULTIPLY the length of time the disease will be present by 2x to 5x. 
 
I don't know how you work that out .. as it will be around until all people left alive have immunity or there's an effective treatment for the breathing complications or a vaccine ..

The whole idea is to 'flatten the curve' - to allow the health services to cope with the numbers

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 24, 2020, 12:14:03 PM


Have you stopped to read the article I posted the link, and interrupted your usual occupation on Skype or looking old photos?

Wiz, I have explained why the article was ill-informed and raised a specific point .. 

As usual, you're more interested in my off-board antics .. 

Could you TRY to deal with my pointing out WHY the article you chose was risible ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 12:15:41 PM
Corona Is a Very Mild Virus, No More Deadly Than Many Others but We Don’t Make a Fuss About
Thats absolutely not true wiz. Friday 20-march Italy had 3000 deaths due to corona, todat 23-march italy has 6000 deaths... thats a lot of dead in 3 days.

All the other "mild" viruses have their prognosis measured over a whole year, yet corona is now only 2 months in the statistics, therefore cannot yet be compared like that.

According to the experts, I have been listening .... the statement above it's true but the only difference this new virus Covid -19.... has the ability to spread very fast....

The Chinese realised that and blocked all the Wuhan area plus another one next to it and managed to stop the fast spreading.

Russia also closed its frontiers to China and so far they have very small numbers....and only 1 old Woman died.

Russia - Early and Strict Border Control Is Working (https://russia-insider.com/en/russia-has-recorded-zero-coronavirus-deaths-early-and-strict-border-control-working/ri28414)

c o r o n a v i r u s


 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 24, 2020, 12:27:15 PM
Herd immunity is the end result of lots of people getting infecting - and not dying.

A community needs about 60% of the people immune to get to a point where for each person getting an infection one (or more) people recover.

This was the strategy implemented in the UK but the issue is that there's going to be lots of people needing hospital care. There's a large peak in infections either way.

It's not generally acceptable to say 'let the buggers die and we'll just bury them in mass graves'.

That means the only option, no matter whether the strategy is suppression or herd immunity, it is necessary to reduce the numbers of infected to avoid totally overstretching health and social services.

Of course, this will run through in a few months as we are already seeing. Herd immunity serves to reduce the impact of subsequent waves of epidemic which is why the UK wants to go down that route.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on March 24, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
The whole idea is to 'flatten the curve' - to allow the health services to cope with the numbers

True.  But when you flatten the infection curve you have a whole bunch of people who still remain vulnerable to the sickness.  One inflected guy can still spread to the 90% of the people who avoided initial infection by "sheltering in place".  Then the whole bloody cycle starts all over again and we'll waste another 3 months, spend trillions of dollars for nothing and send our economy into a full blown depression. 

Letting healthy 20-50 year old people get sick and fully recover is the quickest, most economic way to cure this problem.  The ones that should "shelter in place" are those who are over 65 and mostly retired.     
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 01:19:52 PM

I hope you took your pills by now...... so to keep you busy and informed take a look at this articel:

Corona Is a Very Mild Virus, No More Deadly Than Many Others but We Don’t Make a Fuss About (https://russia-insider.com/en/corona-very-mild-virus-no-more-deadly-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444?ct=t(Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014)&mc_cid=024db0d5a6&mc_eid=da9ae1910f)

(https://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/1200xauto/public/main/2020-Mar-20/fear_channels_tina_toon.jpg?itok=ehkro6lW)

 tiphat

Wiz,  I am so happy you have an adult wife who will take care of you.

I wish you can find one too!  :biggrin:

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 24, 2020, 01:21:38 PM
Normally I do not copy and post an article, but this source does not seem to keep there articles up for ever. So here is an report/editorial. It should be noted that Dr. A. Fauci is highly regarded by a wide array of professionals.
 


https://americantruthtoday.com/politics/2020/03/24/dr-anthony-fauci-i-wish-media-would-stop-trying-to-pit-me-against-president-trump/?utm_source=sprklst&utm_campaign=republicanpundit-fauci-03_24-mid

Dr. Anthony Fauci: I Wish Media Would Stop Trying to Pit Me Against President Trump

One of the most notable figures during the Trump administration’s handling of the Coronavirus outbreak has been Dr. Anthony Fauci of the Coronavirus Task Force. His tireless work has helped President Donald Trump make the best possible decisions when it comes to the problem at hand and Fauci is loved by both sides of the aisle for it.

From WMAL’s Morning on the Mall with hosts Vince Coglianese and Mary Walter.

The radio show hosts asked Fauci if he’s trying to balance out his advice with the economic situation, and Fauci made it clear that this is not something he’s engaging in. His concern is with the virus, but he noted that Trump has to consider all aspects of this fallout, not just the medical aspects. He did acknowledge that a failing economy causes its own health problems.

“What the President is trying to do is balance the public health issues with the fact this is having an enormous impact on the economy of the country which may actually, indirectly, cause an incredible amount of harm… even health-wise,” explained Fauci.

Eventually, at around the six-minute mark, the hosts directly asked Fauci about the media’s constant attempts to slam Trump for any reason whatsoever, something that Fauci acknowledged and called “unfortunate.”

“It seems like increasingly a bunch of the questions from the media are designed to create a rift between you and the President of the United States, or at least to sort of emphasize differences of opinion in a way that creates distance between you and the president,” said Coglianese. “Are you sensing that as the media continually asks you questions about the differences you have with him.”

“That is really unfortunate. I would wish that that would stop because we have a much bigger problem here than trying to point out differences,” said Fauci. “Really, fundamentally at the core, when you look at things there are not differences.

“The President has listened to what I have said and what the other people on the task force have said. When I’ve made recommendations, he’s taken them. He’s never countered or overridden me,” he continued. “The idea of just pitting one against the other is just not helpful. I wish that would stop and we’d look ahead at the challenge we have. To pull together to get over this thing,” he said.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 24, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
Quote
Do more—fast. Don’t wait. The main focus should be to bridge partisan divides and to make sure that the rescue package for the economy is a rescue for Main Street, not just for Wall Street. Preserve the income and jobs for ordinary working people, and also preserve small businesses. The jury is still out on our initiatives, but I’m confident in our approach.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/do-more%e2%80%94fast-dont-wait/ar-BB11CVHr?li=BBnb7Kz

With too much partisan differences and too many voices in this country, this probably would not get off the ground here.    :-\    >:( :fighting0025: :GRRRR: :antagonize:

Quote
Mary Mallon, better known as Typhoid Mary, is the most often-cited case.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/485596-the-search-for-patient-zero-of-coronavirus-and-why-its-so-important

I have only one question, who is patient zero?    >:( (:) ??? :-X :evilgrin0002: :censored:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ga%C3%ABtan_Dugas
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 24, 2020, 03:04:48 PM
In my humble opinion "social distancing" does nothing but MULTIPLY the length of time the disease will be present by 2x to 5x. 
 
I don't know how you work that out .. as it will be around until all people left alive have immunity or there's an effective treatment for the breathing complications or a vaccine ..

The whole idea is to 'flatten the curve' - to allow the health services to cope with the numbers



Quote
Do more—fast. Don’t wait. The main focus should be to bridge partisan divides and to make sure that the rescue package for the economy is a rescue for Main Street, not just for Wall Street. Preserve the income and jobs for ordinary working people, and also preserve small businesses. The jury is still out on our initiatives, but I’m confident in our approach.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/do-more%e2%80%94fast-dont-wait/ar-BB11CVHr?li=BBnb7Kz

With too much partisan differences and too many voices in this country, this probably would not get off the ground here.    :-\    >:( :fighting0025: :GRRRR: :antagonize:

Quote
Mary Mallon, better known as Typhoid Mary, is the most often-cited case.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/485596-the-search-for-patient-zero-of-coronavirus-and-why-its-so-important

I have only one question, who is patient zero?    >:( (:) ??? :-X :evilgrin0002: :censored:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ga%C3%ABtan_Dugas

LOL. Tony Fauci is standing behind and off God King Warrior Emporer Trump's right shoulder as in right hand man in today's briefing.  As a leading member of Team Trump's Corona Virus War Cabinet they are not putting up with any MSM bull shite.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 24, 2020, 03:07:42 PM
One sensible option for Trump is to go full South Korea... Latest graphs from SK show that they not only flattened their curve they lessened it.

And they continue their policies lest somebody brings new infections from Wuhan or China .. and their economy is humming along nicely.

Contrast to the politically correct leftist SJW globo-homo virtue signalers in the Blue bastion sanctuary cities... Well NYC is about to exceed Wuhan cases. As the Blues sew.... So shall they reap. Biblical justice in the end
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 24, 2020, 04:04:19 PM
I suggest it’s too late to do a South Korea.

Looks like Trump is going for herd immunity by doing nothing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 24, 2020, 04:22:43 PM
I've took to wearing the masks on Chinese planes and in very crowded spaces. I always have anti bac gel with me too. I'd be using both at JFK now.


Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

BillyB

WHY do you persist it posting BOLLOX about masks ?

Just heard a NHS Doctor complain there's a of shortage filtered masks in his region of the UK for Intensive Care usage and General Practitioners are only being issued Surgical Masks which are useless


Who to believe BillyB or a Doc .. ?

They tell you masks don't work because there's not enough to go around and don't want you to horde them. Of course masks work because medical professionals wear them while treating infected people. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Masks do not provide the level of protection of a hazmat suit though.

I suggest it’s too late to do a South Korea.

Looks like Trump is going for herd immunity by doing nothing.

Trump does not need to lockdown small town USA if only big cities are needing a lockdown and that can be done by local and State leaders without Trump's blessing. Why hurt everybody when  a good portion of America is still healthy? There's no way to win this battle in the first round. All we can do is limit the damage and sacrificing too much of the economy on the first round isn't smart. We need a healthy economy to continue to battle the virus. When you see a nation go bankrupt fighting the virus and ceases to function, you will see anarchy and a massive amount of death. America can last a awhile so pay attention to nations that's already financially and politically on the edge of collapse. Watch what their people do if their government collapses. Trump does care about lives. If business go bankrupt and people lose jobs, suicide rates go up. Trump said the cure can be more deadlier than the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 24, 2020, 04:36:01 PM
South Korea was able to identified a single source, a church, and able to contain it. It is too late for that in the USA. The USA has done over 300,000 test so far and are finding are cases earlier than  most countries and we are so far having a lower death rate than most countries. Only one percent of our confirmed cases. For an example Italy has a death rate of 10 percent of confirmed cases.

I had to take a friend to a local hospital last night. He was impressed how efficient they were. They met us outside and found out what the problem was before letting him into the building. He was not in contact or near any other patients. One person on the medical staff that was treating him is the only one who ever got near him and he were very well protected by clothing and mask. No extra people were able to be inside. They got to him to repair his catheter and he was out of the door very fast. When he got done there was a cab waiting for him to take him home. This same hospital usually takes forever and they ask a bunch of billing questions and all kinds of extra people in the waiting room. This time he held a medical care card up and they took a picture of it thru glass and that was all.

There is a lot happening here that people over seas do not see. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 24, 2020, 05:03:56 PM
Taiwan has had this problem before where a coronavirus has come from China and they had to contain it. He is a story how they are containing the disease in Taiwan.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/how-taiwan-is-containing-coronavirus-despite-diplomatic-isolation-by-china
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 24, 2020, 05:53:30 PM
Useful NIOSH Respirator categories:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/default.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 24, 2020, 09:02:27 PM
South Korea was able to identified a single source, a church, and able to contain it. It is too late for that in the USA. The USA has done over 300,000 test so far and are finding are cases earlier than  most countries and we are so far having a lower death rate than most countries. Only one percent of our confirmed cases. For an example Italy has a death rate of 10 percent of confirmed cases.

I had to take a friend to a local hospital last night. He was impressed how efficient they were. They met us outside and found out what the problem was before letting him into the building. He was not in contact or near any other patients. One person on the medical staff that was treating him is the only one who ever got near him and he were very well protected by clothing and mask. No extra people were able to be inside. They got to him to repair his catheter and he was out of the door very fast. When he got done there was a cab waiting for him to take him home. This same hospital usually takes forever and they ask a bunch of billing questions and all kinds of extra people in the waiting room. This time he held a medical care card up and they took a picture of it thru glass and that was all.

There is a lot happening here that people over seas do not see.


Good story, glad to hear you noticed improvements in everything.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 24, 2020, 09:06:18 PM
I saw this Dr. interviewed on PBS and liked his opinions.


Opinion
Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?
There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.




https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 24, 2020, 09:23:54 PM
I believe this is what Trump is planning after Easter. I think he plans to keep the current path to give  it a little time to work and hopefully slow the virus down a little. I feel it is my responsible to not get it and to not need a hospital bed from something that is preventable. The reason I post so much is because I am home a lot now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 09:33:37 PM
They got to him to repair his catheter and he was out of the door very fast. When he got done there was a cab waiting for him to take him home. This same hospital usually takes forever and they ask a bunch of billing questions and all kinds of extra people in the waiting room. This time he held a medical care card up and they took a picture of it thru glass and that was all.

There is a lot happening here that people over seas do not see.

There is a lot you don't know about our National Health system to make comparisons and such comments.

For your information everybody living legally in the UK is entitled to FREE Health Care, whatever the cost.

Persons of Pension age and some other categories are getting Free Medicine too. Other's have to pay a small contribution.

If you have an Emergency you can go straight to the Accident & Emergency Department and everything, including Medicine is FREE. When I had some Prostate Problems, I went there and they were excellent.

From what I know from my son living in SFO there you have to have Private Insurance and it is very costly.........and if you do not have one..... you know better than me!

As you like talking about financial matters..... here is a couple of Americans Max and Stacy talking about your economy Dollar, FIAT Money and Gold.

"In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max and Stacy discuss the all out money printing from the US central bank failing to stop markets from continuing to tumble. They explore the deflationary bust driven by the soaring dollar against which most other currencies are tumbling. In the second half, Max interviews Alasdair Macleod of GoldMoney.com about gold in the age of pandemic. They discuss the increasingly unstable markets and ask whether or not they are a sign of the end of the fiat currency regime."


I am sure that Capitalist expert Caffy and money Markets Wizard 
will be happy to hear their comments.


 :laugh:  tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 09:41:58 PM
Useful NIOSH Respirator categories:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/default.html

You May need a few.... after the Tsounami you are going through!

 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 24, 2020, 10:11:22 PM
They got to him to repair his catheter and he was out of the door very fast. When he got done there was a cab waiting for him to take him home. This same hospital usually takes forever and they ask a bunch of billing questions and all kinds of extra people in the waiting room. This time he held a medical care card up and they took a picture of it thru glass and that was all.

There is a lot happening here that people over seas do not see.

There is a lot you don't know about our National Health system to make comparisons and such comments.

For your information everybody living legally in the UK is entitled to FREE Health Care, whatever the cost.

Persons of Pension age and some other categories are getting Free Medicine too. Other's have to pay a small contribution.

If you have an Emergency you can go straight to the Accident & Emergency Department and everything, including Medicine is FREE. When I had some Prostate Problems, I went there and they were excellent.

From what I know from my son living in SFO there you have to have Private Insurance and it is very costly.........and if you do not have one..... you know better than me!

As you like talking about financial matters..... here is a couple of Americans Max and Stacy talking about your economy Dollar, FIAT Money and Gold.

"In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max and Stacy discuss the all out money printing from the US central bank failing to stop markets from continuing to tumble. They explore the deflationary bust driven by the soaring dollar against which most other currencies are tumbling. In the second half, Max interviews Alasdair Macleod of GoldMoney.com about gold in the age of pandemic. They discuss the increasingly unstable markets and ask whether or not they are a sign of the end of the fiat currency regime."


I am sure that Capitalist expert Caffy and money Markets Wizard 
will be happy to hear their comments.


 :laugh:  tiphat


Yes it is free but so far the people of the UK are dying faster also. Only 8,000 cases and almost 450 deaths. Cross contaminating is happening in your hospitals also. Maybe they will get better soon. Actually I hope so because I am not interested in seeing any body die.

You guys are printing just as much money as we are. That is why the pound is not up against the dollar for the last twenty years. Wake up to the real world. You guys will not be able to afford you health care for much longer without cutting quality of care as baby boomer retire in more force. You pensions are being inflated away. Wiz is asleep at what is happening in his own country while he is critical of other countries that are actually doing better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 24, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
Yes it is free but so far the people of the UK are dying faster also. Only 8,000 cases and almost 450 deaths. Cross contaminating is happening in your hospitals also. Maybe they will get better soon. Actually I hope so because I am not interested in seeing any body die.

You guys are printing just as much money as we are. That is why the pound is not up against the dollar for the last twenty years. Wake up to the real world. You guys will not be able to afford you health care for much longer without cutting quality of care as baby boomer retire in more force. You pensions are being inflated away. Wiz is asleep at what is happening in his own country while he is critical of other countries that are actually doing better.

I have to admit I am impressed with your excellent knowledge of everything about the UK! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Are you aware that the City Of London is the biggest Financial Centre and your FED is mostly owned by the Zionist Family of the Rothchilds?

May advice you to keep an eye at your own country......and see where it's going with your FIAT money (toilet paper) and a National Debt of 25 Trillion Dollars and your dependence for Medicine to China!

Don't worry GB has survived for centuries and the USA hegemony... is going fast down the pun before 75 years of its existance.

Have a nice day.......Mr Einstein.!

 tiphat



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 25, 2020, 01:23:11 AM
Dutch company Philips has said that their medical subdivision is planning on doubling its output to help fight corona viruses and then in August it should be doubled again.

However, now with trump threatening to seize all output of the factory.
Philips wants to equally share its output amongst countries with high corona-infections.

Philips makes high-grade medical equipment like heart/lung machines. Only few countries in the world have the capability to make such equipment, most of northern Europe and America qualify.

source (in dutch) https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/vs-wil-beademingsapparatuur-philips-claimen~a00e2d01/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharing_web

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 25, 2020, 01:56:49 AM
If the US seizes Phillips' production (and I guess the output of other companies) then that will tend to break down global supply networks and firms will tend to repatriate and isolate their production in order to protect their business.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 02:00:54 AM

Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

BillyB

WHY do you persist it posting BOLLOX about masks ?

Just heard a NHS Doctor complain there's a of shortage filtered masks in his region of the UK for Intensive Care usage and General Practitioners are only being issued Surgical Masks which are useless


Who to believe BillyB or a Doc .. ?

Here, BillyB loses all reason ..


They tell you masks don't work because there's not enough to go around and don't want you to horde them. Of course masks work because medical professionals wear them while treating infected people.

1/ So, my mates 'have been 'lying' to me..bearing in mind they've been travelling with me ( a Microbiologist nd retired Surgeon )  across countries less than 3 weeks ago  ?  Stop being a total Muppet ..  Surgical masks are useless

2/  if Medics are dealing with a suspected  infected patient they'd  use FILTER mask, in preference


3/ I note you think locking down all people is pointless ( just metropolitan areas ) ... So, you think country folk can't spread the virus ?



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 25, 2020, 03:42:05 AM
If the US seizes Phillips' production (and I guess the output of other companies) then that will tend to break down global supply networks and firms will tend to repatriate and isolate their production in order to protect their business.

I am sure you have not forgotten Tramps Moto ... AMERICA FIRST !

Do you think he will not seize Phillips' production and the output of other companies?

He already put into operation an act from 1950......to be ready, when the numbers reach the ceiling!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 25, 2020, 04:01:50 AM
It is strange that every time Im back in the UK the roads in Dorset are full of potholes it is a disgrace! Roads are worse than Moldova it aint even safe to ride a motorbike at night!!

They just don't have the money to fix all this shit!!

But woe and behold along comes abloody virus and they can afford to find 300 billion and pay most of the country to stay at home... :laugh:  The money just appears like magic, maybe they found it down the back of the sofa!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 25, 2020, 04:32:16 AM
If the US seizes Phillips' production (and I guess the output of other companies) then that will tend to break down global supply networks and firms will tend to repatriate and isolate their production in order to protect their business.
Well yes, but in Philips's case, they will have trouble locating a suitable country for production.

outside of the US , the Netherlands, Germany, Japan, Finland and Sweden are capable, but not much else.
Plus the trade war already has Philips shifting its business-manufactoring lines. High-grade stuff to America, (Medical MRI scanners, heart/lung machines, etc.) lowgrade stuff to china (like electric toothbrushes and personal remote-monitoring devices for diabetics, heart pacemakers, etc.)

Finding capable workers to increase output in Europe will be difficult, dunno about japan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 25, 2020, 05:06:21 AM
Markje, I was not suggesting an overnight change. These are structural issues and, just as moving some production to the USA did not happen overnight, so too, neither will those future changes.

In practical terms, expropriation of manufacturing or product will not lead to immediate closure. There's no possible win for a manufacturer there. Much more likely is a reconfiguration of future investment in order that the business can best serve its clients.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 25, 2020, 05:31:21 AM
The USA has done over 300,000 test so far and are finding are cases earlier than  most countries and we are so far having a lower death rate than most countries. Only one percent of our confirmed cases. For an example Italy has a death rate of 10 percent of confirmed cases.

Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not yank bashing here.

But.....you guys haven't seen anything yet. Give it a bit more time and your emergency services may well start operating close to max capacity. That's when this thing really bites. News from New York today pretty much confirms that you boys aren't out the woods yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 05:38:53 AM
SC escaped Pattaya to the airport at Bangkok and is checking in to fly to Moscow ... The beaches were closed this am - so that really IS 'serious' - if she'd had to stay

The seats are marked with green ticks and red crosses as one waits for a flight and while we chatted a passenger with a suitcase walked past in FULL Haz gear !

As soon as check-in opened the Russians scrambled into a queue and 'social distancing' went out the window .. :dh:   Couldn't bear to watch the stupity in action and asked her to call me AFTER she clears security / passport control








Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 25, 2020, 06:13:23 AM

Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

BillyB

WHY do you persist it posting BOLLOX about masks ?

Just heard a NHS Doctor complain there's a of shortage filtered masks in his region of the UK for Intensive Care usage and General Practitioners are only being issued Surgical Masks which are useless


Who to believe BillyB or a Doc .. ?

Here, BillyB loses all reason ..


They tell you masks don't work because there's not enough to go around and don't want you to horde them. Of course masks work because medical professionals wear them while treating infected people.

1/ So, my mates 'have been 'lying' to me..bearing in mind they've been travelling with me ( a Microbiologist nd retired Surgeon )  across countries less than 3 weeks ago  ?  Stop being a total Muppet ..  Surgical masks are useless

2/  if Medics are dealing with a suspected  infected patient they'd  use FILTER mask, in preference


3/ I note you think locking down all people is pointless ( just metropolitan areas ) ... So, you think country folk can't spread the virus ?

Moby, me thinks you're purposely looking for an argument. If you're not, then perhaps you just don't understand what others write? Either way its a reoccurring theme in every thread and on every forum. There's a problem somewhere.

Billy is making the point that a face mask is better than no face mask. Wearing a face mask limits the possibility for the virus to directly enter your mouth or nose and its a cheap, readily available tool. It's not 100% preventative but it'll give you improved protection.

The next step is of course a full blown bio hazard suit but let's be honest with ourselves here, its not a realistic option for large scale supply. Billy can correct me if I'm wrong but this is what he's telling you.....there is no need to argue about it.

I agree that lockdown should be lockdown all over. The scale of the disaster is obviously going to be much larger in a metropolitan city but the results are the same.

Anyway, how about trying to add value here rather than this constant pettiness and argumentative bickering. It might not for you, but it gets REALLY boring for everyone else.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 25, 2020, 06:19:14 AM
The lower death rates come before care services are overwhelmed, that should be obvious to anyone.

Unless New York can export all their infected across the country for care then its already at a similar state to many places in Europe. The projected need for hospital beds in the state is already running at 300% of those available.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-apex-andrew-cuomo.html?auth=login-facebook

It is a mistake to sit comfy in one's home crowing about what is happening elsewhere and making comparisons. That's poor thinking.

What is happening in the US was inevitable, to be expected, and it's going to get pretty damn horrid.

I hope that your president does not get his way because this will not be done by Easter - its just getting started.

---------------------
Rosco, notice the addition of the imaginary experts right on cue in Mystic's post?

As to whether some mask is better than no mask, the evidence is clear. For the types of masks the public use, with the poor training in their use, a mask is of no practical use to protect oneself from the virus.

A mask of almost any type, including a scarf or dishcloth, is helpful to reduce the output of those who are infected.

What is happening right now is a new form of etiquette in development. It is becoming seen as 'polite' to wear a mask because it shows that, if one is infected, that one is less likely to infect those around one.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 06:24:53 AM


Moby, me thinks you're purposely looking for an argument. If you're not, then perhaps you just don't understand what others write? Either way its a reoccurring theme in every thread and on every forum. There's a problem somewhere.


Only in as much BillyB KEEPS posting utter bollox re masks .

Billy is making the point that a face mask is better than no face mask. Wearing a face mask limits the possibility for the virus to directly enter your mouth or nose and its a cheap, readily available tool. It's not 100% preventative but it'll give you improved protection.

NO .. it won't .. Most Surgical masks aren't worn properly and are totally useless in preventing viral penetration




The next step is of course a full blown bio hazard suit but let's be honest with ourselves here, its not a realistic option for large scale supply. Billy can correct me if I'm wrong but this is what he's telling you.....there is no need to argue about it.

We agree, full blown Haz gear is not an option..not even for those needing them



I agree that lockdown should be lockdown all over. The scale of the disaster is obviously going to be much larger in a metropolitan city but the results are the same.

Anyway, how about trying to add value here rather than this constant pettiness and argumentative bickering. It might not for you, but it gets REALLY boring for everyone else.

If 'adding value' is constantly posting misleading tripe about surgical masks, you seem to be a missile with a guidance fault...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 25, 2020, 06:31:47 AM
The lower death rates come before care services are overwhelmed, that should be obvious to anyone.

Exactly. Tex will be in for a shock over the coming weeks and months. I sense a naive whiff of superiority from Tex when it comes to global virus stats. It's common with USAians and sometimes us, to have haughtiness and pride, which masks reality. More people in the US will need medical assistance, free beds will dwindle and sadly they'll be dragged into what we're seeing elsewhere.

I do hope I'm wrong though.

Rosco, notice the addition of the imaginary experts right on cue in Mystic's post?

Yes, I did.  :'(

The poor chap can't help it but I'm fairly sure the readers know all about Mystic's traits by now. I feel embarrassed for him.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 06:36:50 AM

Rosco, notice the addition of the imaginary experts right on cue in Mystic's post?

andrewfi

You made a ( censored ) of yourself as to the 'profession/ status'  of a previous fellow Director ... WHY are you doing it, again ? 


I travelled in the company fellow Directors [to Turkey and on to Georgia ( rep of ) ] who have lots of letters after their names ' coz they are EXACTLY what / who I posted, profession-wise .. viz  Microbiologist and retired surgeon with 65 plus years of service between them and qualies that would suggest listening their advice re the 'usefulness' of wearing surgical masks (when travelling) might be more sound than BillyB's

YOU might be the sort of chap that posts bollox about folks you work with .. but please don't confuse your ( unfortunate) 'habits' with others....

NO... 'any mask' is not preferable.. it builds up moisture from mucus that is the PERFECT medium for viral transfer ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 07:07:51 AM


Rosco, notice the addition of the imaginary experts right on cue in Mystic's post?

Yes, I did.  :'(


The poor chap can't help it but I'm fairly sure the readers know all about Mystic's traits by now. I feel embarrassed for him.

Oh DEAR...

Rosco's been 'wise' enough to believe andrewfi ;)))

(https://i.imgur.com/atL7LeG.png)

Andrewfi is busted AGAIN ... such info on yous truly is freely available and he could have checked ..

The Dr. is the retired surgeon part of my 'imaginary friends'

andrewfi is too stupid to admit he's been demonstrably a twat ... AGAIN ..  what's your 'excuse' ..?




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 07:35:11 AM

Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

BillyB

WHY do you persist it posting BOLLOX about masks ?

Just heard a NHS Doctor complain there's a of shortage filtered masks in his region of the UK for Intensive Care usage and General Practitioners are only being issued Surgical Masks which are useless


Who to believe BillyB or a Doc .. ?

Here, BillyB loses all reason ..


They tell you masks don't work because there's not enough to go around and don't want you to horde them. Of course masks work because medical professionals wear them while treating infected people.

1/ So, my mates 'have been 'lying' to me..bearing in mind they've been travelling with me ( a Microbiologist nd retired Surgeon )  across countries less than 3 weeks ago  ?  Stop being a total Muppet ..  Surgical masks are useless

2/  if Medics are dealing with a suspected  infected patient they'd  use FILTER mask, in preference


3/ I note you think locking down all people is pointless ( just metropolitan areas ) ... So, you think country folk can't spread the virus ?

Moby, me thinks you're purposely looking for an argument. If you're not, then perhaps you just don't understand what others write? Either way its a reoccurring theme in every thread and on every forum. There's a problem somewhere.

Billy is making the point that a face mask is better than no face mask. Wearing a face mask limits the possibility for the virus to directly enter your mouth or nose and its a cheap, readily available tool. It's not 100% preventative but it'll give you improved protection.

The next step is of course a full blown bio hazard suit but let's be honest with ourselves here, its not a realistic option for large scale supply. Billy can correct me if I'm wrong but this is what he's telling you.....there is no need to argue about it.

I agree that lockdown should be lockdown all over. The scale of the disaster is obviously going to be much larger in a metropolitan city but the results are the same.

Anyway, how about trying to add value here rather than this constant pettiness and argumentative bickering. It might not for you, but it gets REALLY boring for everyone else.

You are correct Roscoe.

Moby, your "experts" are lying to you. They and other healthy medical professionals would not walk into a hospital full of infected people without a mask. It's important that the medical community lies to all people so we stop hoarding the masks and toilet paper! In a time of war, as a citizen I would want a gun for self protection but the front line soldier needs guns first so if they tell citizens guns will do you no good, I will not believe them but I also will not be upset with them lying because guns are much more valuable in their hands.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 07:46:54 AM

Unless New York can export all their infected across the country for care then its already at a similar state to many places in Europe. The projected need for hospital beds in the state is already running at 300% of those available.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-apex-andrew-cuomo.html?auth=login-facebook


NY will become like Italy and King County, WA will become like South Korea. America doesn't have the same problem all over.


What is happening in the US was inevitable, to be expected, and it's going to get pretty damn horrid.


Wrong. If I take Germany, Italy, Spain, UK, France, and Switzerland which combined has the same population as America, they report much more infections and deaths everyday and will continue to do so. Don't worry about the twig in someone elses eye when there's a log in yours. America doesn't have problems all over and doesn't need to shut down our economy like European nations are doing. We all are going into a decline but America isn't going to decline as much. Lives are going to be lost. We can't stop it but to bankrupt companies and make people permanently employed to save a few hundred people isn't smart. Actually closing the economy may cost more lives as suicide rates go up. The European cure to slowing the virus may be a bigger problem than the virus. it took a couple of months after the virus showed up to shutting down nations. Save some of your economy to fight the virus for future outbreaks every couple of months. Or if you need money, ask China to buy you out after stocks, businesses, and your land can be had at rock bottom prices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 08:06:57 AM


Moby, your "experts" are lying to you.

Oh it gets 'better' from Silly BillyB ..

The Microbiologist and the Dr just patented a way to clean hands - to be rid of virus / bacteria - in clean environments  - using a uniquely modified variation of some kit I make ..  The former is a consultant to various national health services regarding POC ...  check out the acronym

'They' .. health professionals ...wear surgical masks during SURGERY - for the patients protection ..

If dealing with Ebola, SARS, MERS, Covid-19 ( is that still the agreed term ?) they'd be wearing filter masks and other PPE / clothing, in an deal situation

The only person 'lying' here is you - to your good-self ..

Anyone believing you, over two of my imaginary and much better qualified friends will probably l do no harm to themselves other than unnecessary discomfort ...Washing your hands is far more effective ...



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 08:12:46 AM


Wrong. If I take Germany, Italy, Spain, UK, France, and Switzerland which combined has the same population as America,

WHERE do you source your pop. figures .. those nations exceed the USA's population ..


. America doesn't have problems all over and doesn't need to shut down our economy like European nations are doing.


Your blind patriotism cannot spot that China stopped population movement as hot spots like Wuhan were out of control and you'll have the same ...  you already do .. YOU just don't realise it, yet ...

No matter HOW good your health service, if you get a hot spot .. it'll fail and  people who would be saved in normal circumstances will die



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 25, 2020, 08:35:36 AM
Wrong. If I take Germany, Italy, Spain, UK, France, and Switzerland which combined has the same population as America, they report much more infections and deaths everyday and will continue to do so.
I don't think Andrew is wrong at all. In Europe it also started with "a few infections" in 1 or 2 countries.

But just like the USA, people use airplanes and other transport to quickly navigate the EU. It will only be a matter of time before Covid19 spreads across USA and without the same measures as Europe is taking, you're going to see exactly the same thing.

Netherlands also thought it could cope with a 'voulentary' shutdown, but now a serious 'mandatory' shutdown is in effect, for companies requiring close contact (Whore houses, driving schools, sport clubs, spa, hair cutters, etc.).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 25, 2020, 09:18:59 AM
According to a Czech regional hygienist, Wuhan virus rapid tests from China have an error rate of up to 80%!!!
https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/ostrava-rychlotesty-koronavirus_2003231414_sot
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 25, 2020, 09:25:15 AM
If the US seizes Phillips' production (and I guess the output of other companies) then that will tend to break down global supply networks and firms will tend to repatriate and isolate their production in order to protect their business.

Trump has been resisting calls to “nationalize” companies and it’s highly unlikely he would do that, provided companies step up production and most probably will.

It’s our radical left-wing “socialist democratic” party who is calling for the government to seize these companies. And of course the Commie-loving media is egging it on.

Doubt if it will happen.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 25, 2020, 09:31:46 AM

but China has refused the help of medical and scientific experts.

They have medical and scientific experts.



ChiNazi's medical and scientific experts can create Wuhan virus test agent with only 20% accuracy!  ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 25, 2020, 09:35:17 AM
The whole idea is to 'flatten the curve' - to allow the health services to cope with the numbers

True.  But when you flatten the infection curve you have a whole bunch of people who still remain vulnerable to the sickness.  One inflected guy can still spread to the 90% of the people who avoided initial infection by "sheltering in place".  Then the whole bloody cycle starts all over again and we'll waste another 3 months, spend trillions of dollars for nothing and send our economy into a full blown depression. 

Letting healthy 20-50 year old people get sick and fully recover is the quickest, most economic way to cure this problem.  The ones that should "shelter in place" are those who are over 65 and mostly retired.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 25, 2020, 09:36:56 AM

NY will become like Italy and King County, WA will become like South Korea. America doesn't have the same problem all over.


Billy,
I heard that Seattle has a long lasting close relationship with China Commie.  I guess it is the reason why Seattle suffers so much this time.

Believe it or not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 09:53:04 AM
But just like the USA, people use airplanes and other transport to quickly navigate the EU. It will only be a matter of time before Covid19 spreads across USA and without the same measures as Europe is taking, you're going to see exactly the same thing.


The reason why USA and Europe is going to be impacted differently is because of Trump's early Jan travel restrictions on people who passed through China. Trump also later banned travel from Europe when he learned most of our infections are coming from Europe instead of China.


NY will become like Italy and King County, WA will become like South Korea. America doesn't have the same problem all over.


Billy,
I heard that Seattle has a long lasting close relationship with China Commie.  I guess it is the reason why Seattle suffers so much this time.

Believe it or not.


Seattle does a lot of business with China. One reason we were hit hard first. Fortunately most of the infections were in old folks homes and it was easy for the government to remove large groups from the population quickly so it's not exploding right now but we are taking precautions with a Stay at home order.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 25, 2020, 09:53:55 AM
The whole idea is to 'flatten the curve' - to allow the health services to cope with the numbers

True.  But when you flatten the infection curve you have a whole bunch of people who still remain vulnerable to the sickness.  One inflected guy can still spread to the 90% of the people who avoided initial infection by "sheltering in place".  Then the whole bloody cycle starts all over again and we'll waste another 3 months, spend trillions of dollars for nothing and send our economy into a full blown depression. 

Letting healthy 20-50 year old people get sick and fully recover is the quickest, most economic way to cure this problem.  The ones that should "shelter in place" are those who are over 65 and mostly retired.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Interestingly and sadly, the UK is reporting that a 21 year old, healthy girl has lost her life to COVID-19.

It may be that she had an undiscovered condition or perhaps its another lesson learned when it comes to the virus. Either way its pretty worrying news. I started out as a sceptic but today I'm doing all the sensible stuff and following government advice.

The people who choose to underplay it, and there are currently too many of them, will probably drag out the pain for everyone.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-briton-21-with-no-existing-health-conditions-dies-after-contracting-covid-19-11963451
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 25, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
The reason why USA and Europe is going to be impacted differently is because of Trump's early Jan travel restrictions on people who passed through China. Trump also later banned travel from Europe when he learned most of our infections are coming from Europe instead of China.

I hope you're correct but I suspect your post won't age well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 25, 2020, 10:10:12 AM
Travel restrictions are more for political effect than real benefit. Very early on, there can be an effect but because the virus will have entered the area (country) before anyone was aware or taking action, the virus is already in place and spreading.

Imagine this: at any given time, there's at least 10 times the number of people infected than are confirmed by testing. We know that the number of travellers who are infected is very small, even from a high risk area. Those numbers are much, much lower than the infected population in the target area. Therefore, their additional effect is negligible.

When the number of cases is once again low, as the outbreak comes to its end, as in China then travellers can be a significant effect.

With millions of infections travel is not significant. How many infections are there in the USA? A rough rule of thumb uses by the UK's epidemiologists is that the infection rate is about 1000 times the total number of deaths up to the point where the health service is overwhelmed.

Had the USA taken action when first informed through WHO early in January along with an extensive testing tracking and isolation program then a travel ban might have been of use. That did not happen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 10:15:23 AM
Quote from: andrewfi link=topic=28644.msg507261#msg507
Travel restrictions are more for political effect than real benefit.

Nonsense

How did he virus get spread from the source nation ( China, in all likelihood )  to other continents ..?   

It is for political / humanitarian reasons that govts do not forbid their citizens to enter when requested to come home.

By the time any bans got implemented, it was already too late 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 25, 2020, 10:35:34 AM
I put some feelers out to have a couple of pallets of N95 masks flown in today.

One of my helpers in China who was camped out with her parents in the countryside to avoid the virus is now back in Guangzhou. She tells me life is back to normal there, restaurants open again, etc.

The biggest problem they have is Chinese coming home from the US and Europe bringing the virus back with them. Apparently the Chinese abroad are fleeing back home because its safer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 25, 2020, 10:48:34 AM
Mystic, go read what I wrote. I wrote that it is only of much use at the beginning.

The virus had spread to the United States before it was even acknowledged by them making whatever was done there a case of bolting the stable door after the horse had bolted.

I am sure that even you can work out the effect of an additional couple of people who might have been infected where there's thousands of people already wandering around carrying the infection - especially given the programs and activity already in place. Indeed, the first known case in Estonia, but certainly not the first infection, came from a traveler arriving in the country. He felt unwell and presented himself at a medical centre because he felt unwell. He is now fully recovered. Closing the border at that time would not have been practicable but as it was the right things happened.

Of course, this isn't stuff just picked out of my arse, unlike some who post here, you can read about the issue for yourself in research papers, it's not a secret.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 25, 2020, 10:51:36 AM
I put some feelers out to have a couple of pallets of N95 masks flown in today.

One of my helpers in China who was camped out with her parents in the countryside to avoid the virus is now back in Guangzhou. She tells me life is back to normal there, restaurants open again, etc.

The biggest problem they have is Chinese coming home from the US and Europe bringing the virus back with them. Apparently the Chinese abroad are fleeing back home because its safer.

I think that quite a few Chinese abroad were trapped abroad because
of the lack of flights back home to China. It makes sense that they
would want to head home when it became practical to do so.
Nobody would want to visit shut down and barricaded Italy
for example (and I love, love, love Italy).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 11:02:24 AM

Nobody would want to visit shut down and barricaded Italy
for example (and I love, love, love Italy).
..

or NY ...

( or Madrid, in fact insert many cities in Europe or N.America, soon )

SC is on a flight back to Moscow and she hasn't given a sh*t about catching the virus ... until jam packed on a flight to Moscow - "full of English speaking foreigners and 'even Spanish' people" ...!

Funny how xenophobic some have become (

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
The reason why USA and Europe is going to be impacted differently is because of Trump's early Jan travel restrictions on people who passed through China. Trump also later banned travel from Europe when he learned most of our infections are coming from Europe instead of China.

I hope you're correct but I suspect your post won't age well.


America's hospitals aren't full like Italy's and Spain's. Sure we are behind testing but one way to judge a disaster is to look inside hospitals. Italy was actually one of the first European nations to take action on China. They banned flights while Trump banned any foreign nationals that were in China. A Chinese national could fly into Switzerland and then into Italy so they don't miss out on their vacation in Rome while a Chinese national couldn't fly into Canada and continue their vacation at Disneyland circumventing the ban. Trump did good but we will still pay a price. 2 trillion dollars at least.

Why didn't governments around the world act faster? They were deceived by China. China wouldn't let WHO into their nation to investigate the behavior of the virus for themselves so WHO gave recommendations to other nations that it was safe to travel into China based off what China told them. WHO also said there was no evidence of human to human transmission based off what China told them. China finally admitted to the world Jan 20 that human to human transmission was possible. Too late, the spread of the virus outside of China already begun.
 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/taiwan-says-who-ignored-its-coronavirus-questions-at-start-of-outbreak/ar-BB11CNet?ocid=spartanntp

Spain has now passed China in deaths. Maybe somebody can explain to me how China, which has a population of 23+ times bigger than Italy and Spain, have less deaths than those two nations? Maybe their secret was too allow hundreds of millions of people to travel across the country using public transportation in preparation for Chinese New Year right before the lockdowns began.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 25, 2020, 12:29:59 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 25, 2020, 12:36:14 PM
Quoting from Opinion piece in The NY Times by Dr. Katz. Link up thread.

Quote

“Importantly, that robust immune response also prevents transmission. If a germ can’t secure its hold on your body, your body no longer serves as a vector to send it forward to the next potential host. This is true even if that next person is not yet immune. When enough of us represent such “dead ends” for viral transmission, spread through the population is blunted, and eventually terminated. This is called herd immunity.

What we know so far about the coronavirus makes it a unique case for the potential application of a “herd immunity” approach, a strategy viewed as a desirable side effect in the Netherlands, and briefly considered in the United Kingdom.

The data from South Korea, where tracking the coronavirus has been by far the best to date, indicate that as much as 99 percent of active cases in the general population are “mild” and do not require specific medical treatment. The small percentage of cases that do require such services are highly concentrated among those age 60 and older, and further so the older people are. Other things being equal, those over age 70 appear at three times the mortality risk as those age 60 to 69, and those over age 80 at nearly twice the mortality risk of those age 70 to 79.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 25, 2020, 12:38:53 PM
I think this virus will teach many people to always "Save for a rainy day" seems most on the planet are already bankrupt after just 2 weeks!



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 25, 2020, 12:42:32 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:


Firstly, you must confirm that it is not photoshop'ed and have a physical copy of this book.
Otherwise, it is meaningless.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 25, 2020, 12:45:47 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:


Firstly, you must confirm that it is not photoshop'ed and have a physical copy of this book.
Otherwise, it is meaningless.

I intend to get one!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 25, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Spain has now passed China in deaths. Maybe somebody can explain to me how China, which has a population of 23+ times bigger than Italy and Spain, have less deaths than those two nations? Maybe their secret was too allow hundreds of millions of people to travel across the country using public transportation in preparation for Chinese New Year right before the lockdowns began.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


The low rate of death caused by Wuhan virus can be explained easily :-

According to a Czech regional hygienist, Wuhan virus rapid tests from China have an accuracy rate of 20% only!!!
https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/ostrava-rychlotesty-koronavirus_2003231414_sot

All the remaining cases are considered negative.

It also explains why, in ChiNazi, some patients are confirmed positive only in their 4th test.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 25, 2020, 01:04:42 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:


Firstly, you must confirm that it is not photoshop'ed and have a physical copy of this book.
Otherwise, it is meaningless.

I intend to get one!  :laugh:


Probably the trick of book publishers. This is the very same shot and content but from a different author and book:
(https://twitter.com/KimKardashian/status/1237924116486688768/photo/1)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 25, 2020, 01:27:32 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:

That's amazing if true.

It could be the author of an otherwise unknown book seeding social media with this nonsense hoping that everybody will flock to Amazon to buy it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 25, 2020, 01:48:23 PM
I am yet to know of anyone to contract the Corona virus personally, but obviously the cases are growing. Here in Pennsylvania we are up to over 1000 confirmed cases (thankfully none in my county of Venango - yet). The workers who are re-building my parents' house have been forced to stay home and just this morning my mother received a call from FEMA - they want to use our hotel as hospital overflow if it would come to that. This is a voluntary decision, but the parents feel obliged. FEMA will apparently completely disinfect and quarantine the area, as well as provide compensation for use (which would be welcome at this point because the place is shut down anyway).

Wash those hands and stay home my RUA friends! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 25, 2020, 01:57:18 PM
I am yet to know of anyone to contract the Corona virus personally, but obviously the cases are growing. Here in Pennsylvania we are up to over 1000 confirmed cases (thankfully none in my county of Venango - yet). The workers who are re-building my parents' house have been forced to stay home and just this morning my mother received a call from FEMA - they want to use our hotel as hospital overflow if it would come to that. This is a voluntary decision, but the parents feel obliged. FEMA will apparently completely disinfect and quarantine the area, as well as provide compensation for use (which would be welcome at this point because the place is shut down anyway).

Wash those hands and stay home my RUA friends!

Hi “Lord of the Dance”, glad to see you post something and glad you’re healthy!

How many rooms are at your parents hotel? My concern would be how it could affect the reputation of the hotel in the future and future business.

As you probably know many people are superstitious.

I don’t really understand why the USA can no longer build things quickly like we did during WWII and like the Chinese did in Wuhan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 25, 2020, 02:15:53 PM
Proof you can't cure stupid but you sure can spin it like the whinging Gov of New York:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/25/andrew-cuomo-ny-has-15-times-coronavirus-cases-of-ca-because-we-welcome-people/

Why New Joke is the real Wuhan...

New York currently has 30,811 cases, California has 2,644 cases, Washington state has 2,404 cases and Massachusetts has 1,159 cases.

Cuomo added that New Yorkers lived “close to one another,” which was another reason the virus spread more quickly.

He cited the close quarters in which New Yorkers lived in their communities, restaurants, movie theaters, public transportation, that, made New Yorkers more vulnerable.

But he said that the greatest weakness of New Yorkers was also their greatest strength.

“Our closeness is what makes us special,” he said, noting that New Yorkers were more open, accepting and tolerant than the rest of the world.

“The closeness is that New York humanity that I think exists nowhere else,” he said.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on March 25, 2020, 02:30:59 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:

Those paragraphs have been attributed to at least five different authors, unless you have the original book to prove it, its just another internet hoax.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on March 25, 2020, 03:11:49 PM
Hi “Lord of the Dance”, glad to see you post something and glad you’re healthy!

How many rooms are at your parents hotel? My concern would be how it could affect the reputation of the hotel in the future and future business.

As you probably know many people are superstitious.

I don’t really understand why the USA can no longer build things quickly like we did during WWII and like the Chinese did in Wuhan.

About a hundred rooms. This is an old golf resort that my great grandpa on my mom's side built back in the early 50s. They're exceptionally interested in this hotel as a makeshift hospital because the units are all detached from the resort building and every room has separate access (in other words, each hotel room door opens to the outside as opposed to a hallway).

My mom expressed some concern about the reputation issue that you point out, but on the other side of that coin: 1) if we decline to assist and word gets out, we look like selfish a-holes, and 2) We've already lost about $600K in business through cancelation of golf packages for the spring season (we typically get a lot of guys from Pittsburgh, Erie, Cleveland, Buffalo and even the Niagara and Toronto regions of Canada coming in to to play the courses but they've all canceled already), so the government money could mitigate economic losses from this pandemic (although frankly, not by too much). At this point it's all theoretical anyway, the hospitals around here are not anywhere near capacity... but they seem to be thinking this thing is far from over. I don't know what to think.

Thanks Confederate, hope you're staying healthy as well!

As to why we can't seem to build a 'quickie' hospital like China has done recently... I don't know. If the government keeps shutting everything down we will be frozen in place! Trump is talking about getting things moving again by Easter - hopefully this happens.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 25, 2020, 03:46:48 PM
This is rather creepy! Did Dean Koontz have a crystal ball or what? This book was written in 1981.  :coffeeread:

Those paragraphs have been attributed to at least five different authors, unless you have the original book to prove it, its just another internet hoax.

This link from Wikipedia explains the confusion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyes_of_Darkness
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 25, 2020, 03:54:44 PM
How do we post Twitter links?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 25, 2020, 04:01:28 PM
I think this virus will teach many people to always "Save for a rainy day" seems most on the planet are already bankrupt after just 2 weeks!

A mass of humanity live "paycheck to paycheck".  Capital is concentrated in the hands of a small few.   If you are not on top, you are at the bottom.  The "middle ground" is disappearing.    :king:   tiphat :-X :P

Quote
“Of course, he will be having top-notch medical care, but still, it is very scary.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/royals/source-prince-charles-has-a-bad-cough-as-he-battles-the-coronavirus/ar-BB11H4qb

Those at the top will always receive premium care.  As for those not at the top, well, hope for the best.   (:) :duh: :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 25, 2020, 04:07:39 PM
Quote
"A serious situation is unfolding,"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-dons-hazmat-suit-moscow-151551841.html

Quote
“We had a 17-year-old boy die from this disease but he did not meet the criteria for public health to OK a test and the only time he was tested was after he died. That doesn’t tell us something."

“I was informed by the county that this individual did not have pre-existing conditions. It’s a sober reminder that anybody can die from this disease,”


https://www.foxla.com/news/health-officials-backtrack-on-announcement-lancaster-teen-died-of-covid-19

Quote
“Though early tests indicated a positive result for COVID-19, the case is complex and there may be an alternate explanation for this fatality” and the case will need evaluation by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the statement said.

Now it seems that he did not die from an infection.   :duh:  You are all running around like "chickens with its head cut off".     :chuckle: (:) :dh: :hidechair:
https://www.foxla.com/news/lancaster-teen-dies-from-coronavirus-health-officials

 :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 25, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
I think this virus will teach many people to always "Save for a rainy day" seems most on the planet are already bankrupt after just 2 weeks!

There will probably be more bankruptcies than deaths.


During today's press conference Trump was asked why he signed a bill where 35 million dollars went to a performing arts center. He said the Democrats wanted it and he had to give them something. He also said he likes performing arts and they are hurting due to the virus and it was a good to put some money there.

He said our nation has done more coronavirus testing than any other nation by far with the most accurate test kits. If true, there are nations that are using test kits that can give incorrect results. Also it may mean America's test kits aren't 100% accurate since the claim wasn't made. VP Pence later announced 432,000 tests were performed. 5 days ago America only had 104,000 tests done according to the website below. We did more testing in a few days than South Korea did in weeks.

http://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

Trump says there will be a conference call among the leaders of 20 counties tomorrow. Sounds like they are going to plan for a unified fight against the virus.

A reporter asked Trump how many lives lost will be acceptable. Trump responded with "None."

Dr. Fauci said they are paying attention to the Southern Hemisphere for outbreaks as they head into colder seasons. He also said it's inevitable we will see things flare up again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 25, 2020, 04:52:05 PM
I am yet to know of anyone to contract the Corona virus personally, but obviously the cases are growing.

I know a couple of people who apparently know someone who has it. For example, I called my alarm man today who is self-isolating because his relative apparently arrived back from Italy with it.

That said, I do believe that this or a similar virus was circulating late last year. Upon hearing about the symptoms, I have read that many people have said the same. I had a horrible flu type thing before Christmas that left me feeling like I'd been run over by a train and coughing for several weeks after it had gone. I get flu shots so it wasn't regular flu. Even my CVS imported multi symptom flu tablets didn't touch it.

Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 25, 2020, 04:54:30 PM
How do we post Twitter links?

Share > copy link
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 25, 2020, 05:10:48 PM
Firstly, you must confirm that it is not photoshop'ed and have a physical copy of this book.
Otherwise, it is meaningless.

Books have many covers during their publishing cycle and each edition.
They are usually different from hard cover to paperback. You can google
text and usually find out if it's in the book. It's smart to be skeptical and
to check. Google can be your friend.

Udachi!

Bill

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 25, 2020, 05:14:32 PM
How do we post Twitter links?

Share > copy link

I learn something new every day, which is good because I forget something
every day as well. Thanks Manny, I'll add it to the buttons thread.

https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=5068.new#new

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 25, 2020, 07:24:32 PM

Of course, this isn't stuff just picked out of my arse, unlike some who post here, you can read about the issue for yourself in research papers, it's not a secret.

That is EXACTLY what is was, and nothing in your lengthy diatribe or 'response'  alters the fact that you just posted more bollox 

You need to find real invisible' mates who can help you post facts, not fiction


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 25, 2020, 11:51:46 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/walmart-albertsons-and-kroger-are-adding-sneeze-guards-to-checkout-lanes/ar-BB11GHLu

Quote
Murphy also branded him one of the "knuckleheads" in the state who are not cooperating with the public health emergency.
https://nj1015.com/nj-shopper-accused-of-threatening-grocery-cashier-with-covid-19/

Grocery stores will now look more like banks.   (:) :-\
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 25, 2020, 11:54:28 PM
Quote
Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.

It's also possible that the virus has variants being spawned from different locations.  So maybe you are patient zero?    :evilgrin0002: :chuckle: :GRRRR: >:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 26, 2020, 12:25:32 AM
Quote
Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.

It's also possible that the virus has variants being spawned from different locations.  So maybe you are patient zero?    :evilgrin0002: :chuckle: :GRRRR: >:(

Not too many bats on the menu here. Although if they taste good with gretchka and smetanka, who knows? My wife will eat all sorts of odd stuff I won’t touch. :eeekk:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 26, 2020, 12:55:28 AM
Mystic, you lie, you know you lie. Because you lie we assume that what you say or write is a lie.
Even if you provide evidence that something you say or write on one particular occasion is not a lie this does not in any way mean that you are an honest or credible person.

Oddly enough, the fact that you try to suggest that a particular statement is not a lie rather strengthens the idea that everything else is a lie, or dishonest.

In the real world, people who are relatively honest with each other feel no need to prove the veracity of a statement. Credibility is assumed - not in your case however.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 26, 2020, 01:23:59 AM
I really liked this op-ed article on RT.com.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/483865-europe-coronavirus-russia-china/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 26, 2020, 03:09:19 AM
Spain has now passed China in deaths. Maybe somebody can explain to me how China, which has a population of 23+ times bigger than Italy and Spain, have less deaths than those two nations? Maybe their secret was too allow hundreds of millions of people to travel across the country using public transportation in preparation for Chinese New Year right before the lockdowns began.


I think most people are sceptical when it comes to the official figures in China. China is like an evolution of the USSR and its in their interest to under play the negatives and over egg the positives. I hear official figures vary with some countries only counting the dead who die in hospital with no post mortem for those who die at home. I understand France is one of those.

Comparing Chinese Covid-19 deaths with those in Western Europe, is most definitely apples and pears.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 26, 2020, 03:19:40 AM
I am yet to know of anyone to contract the Corona virus personally, but obviously the cases are growing.

I know a couple of people who apparently know someone who has it. For example, I called my alarm man today who is self-isolating because his relative apparently arrived back from Italy with it.

That said, I do believe that this or a similar virus was circulating late last year. Upon hearing about the symptoms, I have read that many people have said the same. I had a horrible flu type thing before Christmas that left me feeling like I’d been run over by a train and coughing for several weeks after it had gone. I get flu shots so it wasn’t regular flu. Even my CVS imported multi symptom flu tablets didn’t touch it.

Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.

Two of my buddies have been quarantined with the symptoms. The hospital checked them over, said it probably was but didn't test. One recovered fairly quickly, the other took a week. They both said that it felt like a real primitive flu. Shivers, followed be sweats, delirium, breathing difficulties, no sleep and no food. It came in waves.

After a couple of days they thought they were out the woods and it came back. We were all in Italy for the rugby in February, just as it was starting to hit the high notes. I've had a persistent dry cough but nothing else, I may or may not have had it too. Either way, I've stayed clear of my parents and I'm currently doing what the government is asking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 26, 2020, 03:25:01 AM


I think most people are sceptical when it comes to the official figures in China. China is like an evolution of the USSR and its in their interest to under play the negatives and over egg the positives. I hear official figures vary with some countries only counting the dead who die in hospital with no post mortem for those who die at home. I understand France is one of those.

Comparing Chinese Covid-19 deaths with those in Western Europe, is most definitely apples and pears.

Singapore and S.Korea ( and even the Rep of Irl - until today ) had adopted the WHO 'test, test. test' mentality

Who as in ( which of us) believes the US / UK igures - other than mortality are 'accurate' ?


I believe China's figure are probably more representative the the UK's .. in the end

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 26, 2020, 03:25:37 AM
Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.

Its funny you say that because I've spoken to a few people who seem to think this too. It'll be interesting to see if we do get testing kits with the ability to tell.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 26, 2020, 03:27:27 AM
[ I've had a persistent dry cough but nothing else, I may or may not have had it too. Either way, I've stayed clear of my parents and I'm currently doing what the government is asking.

There's a good chap .    I'm being SERIOUS .... too many seem to be living life as 'normal'.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 26, 2020, 03:28:10 AM
The reason why USA and Europe is going to be impacted differently is because of Trump's early Jan travel restrictions on people who passed through China. Trump also later banned travel from Europe when he learned most of our infections are coming from Europe instead of China.

I hope you're correct but I suspect your post won't age well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52044452

Virus surges in US as death toll passes 1,000.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 26, 2020, 03:50:56 AM
Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.

Its funny you say that because I've spoken to a few people who seem to think this too. It'll be interesting to see if we do get testing kits with the ability to tell.

ChiNazi's propaganda begins to show effect on some people.

The point is - how do you prove or disprove your assertion?!?

Must similar cases in ChiNazi during the same period of time be counted in your observation?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 26, 2020, 04:02:03 AM
Lots of people here think that they had it already late last year. It will be interesting when the tests come out that will show if we have had it already. Because if some of us did have it late last year that would debunk the idea that it came from Wuhan.

Its funny you say that because I've spoken to a few people who seem to think this too. It'll be interesting to see if we do get testing kits with the ability to tell.

ChiNazi's propaganda begins to show effect on some people.

The point is - how do you prove or disprove your assertion?!?

You can't unless some kind of testing kit, as noted above, was able to say whether you've already had it or not. Whether that's even possible or not I don't know?

It's not propaganda, its deep thinking. In the hours of quarantine, a thoughtful person poses questions he may not have considered if he were busy. A few people I know had their worst flu symptoms ever around xmas time. Why is it superficial to beg the question?

In the current climate, someone sneezes and people think corona, even although there are plenty of pre existing colds and flu's doing the rounds. Without testing, nobody knows.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 26, 2020, 04:50:09 AM
I've got 4000 KN95 anti-viral masks on the way from China if any of the Brits need any.

[attachimg=1]

Good quality. They'll be reasonable money.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 26, 2020, 05:58:37 AM
 I feel sorry for folks trapped in nations that have closed their borders and they become outcasts ..

SC made it home overnight - no quarantine or stay at home requested  - as she'd been in Thailand for over 30 days


At midnight, Moscow time, all flights   ( scheduled and charters) will be refused entry to RU airspace - so only repatriation flights from now on


 









Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 26, 2020, 06:38:40 AM
Are you going to offer discount for old age Pensioners? ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 07:10:58 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52044452

Virus surges in US as death toll passes 1,000.


That's not too bad considering the population size of America. Cases of infected surged because in a week, we became the most tested nation in the World. The outbreak we are having isn't out of control. It just seems that way because we massed tested people quickly. China may actually been more tested than America but they aren't reporting how many they tested.

Site below is updated throughout the day and it shows deaths per million. China has 2 deaths per million people. America has 3 deaths per million people and Italy has 124 dead per million people. Spain is catching up fast. There are smaller nations that are doing worse off than Italy. Scroll down the page a little to see the data.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 26, 2020, 08:09:13 AM
So!! Basically the whole human race, you know the ones that have the biggest bombs, the biggest nuclear weapons, the ones or countries that can blow another country to kingdom come , the countries with the richest on the planet and all the super rich on the planet with this and that..

Right now they are all Basically  HIDING in their houses petrified to go out? Yes that is the situation in reality nothing else nothing more.. everyone is shitting bricks, streets are deserted planet come to a standstill!!

Now is the time to take a good look at how feeble the human race really is and how vulnerable it is, we are just fleas on a huge rock orbiting one big mother ******** Nuclear reactor (The Sun)

Lots worse will be hitting the planet over the next few hundred or thousands of years and probably the human race will not survive a big event.. it certainly will not survive when the sun goes super nova!! But long before that Mother Nature and the universe will be throwing all sorts of shit at the planet..

Just thank the lord you will probably survive this little event!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 26, 2020, 08:29:15 AM
I should have said international flts will not be permitted to LAND  - overflying is of course, permitted
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 26, 2020, 09:19:34 AM
Social distancing pick up lines.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 26, 2020, 09:54:12 AM
So!! Basically the whole human race, you know the ones that have the biggest bombs, the biggest nuclear weapons, the ones or countries that can blow another country to kingdom come , the countries with the richest on the planet and all the super rich on the planet with this and that..

Right now they are all Basically  HIDING in their houses petrified to go out? Yes that is the situation in reality nothing else nothing more.. everyone is shitting bricks, streets are deserted planet come to a standstill!!

I think similarly.  When a Biblical End Game comes, all the accumulated "capital" will vanish in a very short time.

Saint Paul said "Without Love, we are nothing."  Amen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 26, 2020, 09:56:33 AM
I've got 4000 KN95 anti-viral masks on the way from China if any of the Brits need any.

(Attachment Link)

Good quality. They'll be reasonable money.

Please read my signature first before you place an order to buy ChiNazi's medical products.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 26, 2020, 10:02:58 AM
Loyalman, I do not know why you have the attitude you do - it's a little sad. However, your signature link is rather inaccurate.

The test kits were being used in Czechia incorrectly and, used as they were, could never function as expected. The test kits supplied were antibody test kits, designed to track people who had been infected with Covid-19 and developed an immunity. They were not a test kit to see who had an infection.

There's plenty of criticisms that can be made about almost anything - but it is handy to get your facts straight and save yourself looking a little less on the ball than you might prefer.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 26, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
Loyalman, I do not know why you have the attitude you do - it's a little sad. However, your signature link is rather inaccurate.

The test kits were being used in Czechia incorrectly and, used as they were, could never function as expected. The test kits supplied were antibody test kits, designed to track people who had been infected with Covid-19 and developed an immunity. They were not a test kit to see who had an infection.

There's plenty of criticisms that can be made about almost anything - but it is handy to get your facts straight and save yourself looking a little less on the ball than you might prefer.

Yes, my comprehension is accurate because I use Bing as translator, and you use the rubbish, randomly editable Google translator.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 26, 2020, 10:19:29 AM
Loyalman, I do not know why you have the attitude you do - it's a little sad. However, your signature link is rather inaccurate.

The test kits were being used in Czechia incorrectly and, used as they were, could never function as expected. The test kits supplied were antibody test kits, designed to track people who had been infected with Covid-19 and developed an immunity. They were not a test kit to see who had an infection.

There's plenty of criticisms that can be made about almost anything - but it is handy to get your facts straight and save yourself looking a little less on the ball than you might prefer.

Yes, my comprehension is accurate because I use Bing as translator, and you use the rubbish, randomly editable Google translator.

As far as I know Andrew uses the Queen's English without the aid of a translator.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 26, 2020, 10:23:37 AM
Loyalman, I did not need to translate the linked page. This is stuff that I already know about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 26, 2020, 10:41:14 AM
That's not too bad considering the population size of America. Cases of infected surged because in a week, we became the most tested nation in the World. The outbreak we are having isn't out of control. It just seems that way because we massed tested people quickly.

I aint arguing with you here and I certainly don't wish for the US to get hit badly. I just think its a bit naive to be so confident so early, considering where you guys are at and what we know elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if it rips through like wild fire over the coming month and the stats will change dramatically.

Lets wait and see.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 26, 2020, 10:42:30 AM
Loyalman, I did not need to translate the linked page. This is stuff that I already know about.

I just want to help to save Lives especially this site's members, and you simply blame me.  You have already joined the Dark Side - ChiNazi.

See how people recycling used face masks -
in ChiNazi
https://twitter.com/Dystopia992/status/1220661814419050496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1220661814419050496&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Freport-vendor-selling-used-face-masks-in-wuhan-as-demand-spikes-amid-coronavirus-panic%2F (https://twitter.com/Dystopia992/status/1220661814419050496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1220661814419050496&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Freport-vendor-selling-used-face-masks-in-wuhan-as-demand-spikes-amid-coronavirus-panic%2F)

in Thailand
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 26, 2020, 10:58:25 AM
ChiCommies at it again:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on March 26, 2020, 11:18:08 AM
I feel sorry for folks trapped in nations that have closed their borders and they become outcasts ..

SC made it home overnight - no quarantine or stay at home requested  - as she'd been in Thailand for over 30 days


At midnight, Moscow time, all flights   ( scheduled and charters) will be refused entry to RU airspace - so only repatriation flights from now on

Utter bollox...
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..
There are now serious fines for failing to do so..
IF she is infected, and infects another who dies from the infection, its a large fine and possibly 7yr prison time...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 26, 2020, 11:30:15 AM
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 26, 2020, 12:24:26 PM
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Easy!! $20,000 fine or 7 years in prison would you risk that? What is it in the Uk 25.00 pounds?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 26, 2020, 03:04:59 PM
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 26, 2020, 04:07:55 PM
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Easy!! $20,000 fine or 7 years in prison would you risk that? What is it in the Uk 25.00 pounds?  :laugh:

20,000 USD to RUB = 1,548,034.81 Russian Rubles or
7 years in prison!


 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 26, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Easy!! $20,000 fine or 7 years in prison would you risk that? What is it in the Uk 25.00 pounds?  :laugh:

20,000 USD to RUB = 1,548,034.81 Russian Rubles or
7 years in prison!


 tiphat

Yes so stay indoors if your under quarantine ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 06:06:31 PM

Steveboy and others who may be in the romance business, how have the lockdowns and travel restrictions affected your business?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 26, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
I feel sorry for folks trapped in nations that have closed their borders and they become outcasts ..

SC made it home overnight - no quarantine or stay at home requested  - as she'd been in Thailand for over 30 days


At midnight, Moscow time, all flights   ( scheduled and charters) will be refused entry to RU airspace - so only repatriation flights from now on

Utter bollox...
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..
There are now serious fines for failing to do so..
IF she is infected, and infects another who dies from the infection, its a large fine and possibly 7yr prison time...

Just think Moldy,

You can take and post a lot more photos with wifey behind bars!! 🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2020, 07:33:50 PM

It's been 5 weeks since Italy started their lockdown and they are still reporting upticks in new infections and death with 712 dying today. Italy has also had 40 doctors die. Article doesn't say how many nurses died.

https://news.yahoo.com/italy-coronavirus-deaths-rise-662-172735148.html

Russia builds huge hospital in Moscow in preparation for their upcoming outbreak.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/infectious-diseases-hospital-built-moscow-204836712.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 26, 2020, 08:23:37 PM
US Secretary of State Pompeo says “we’re in a live exercise here” during an interview on CNN?!


Weird. What’s really going on?

Quote

“There are already various clues this whole pandemic – really a fake pandemic – was planned in advance. There is the 2010 Rockefeller Foundation paper which talked about it. There is the Illuminati insider who revealed secret plans to release a bioweapon on the Chinese by saying that “China will catch a cold.” There is the Bill Gates/Big Pharma/CDC Event 201 Simulation. There is possible Chinese Government foreknowledge. There is the simple fact that this pandemic is allowing the social engineers to simultaneously and rapidly roll out almost every conceivable NWO (New World Order) agenda, including censorship, surveillance, quarantine, martial law, the cashless agenda, governmental emergency powers, the 5G rollout, social isolation as the “new normal“, mandatory vaccinations and the human microchipping agenda.“


https://thefreedomarticles.com/live-exercise-pompeo-lets-slip-covid-19-pandemic/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 26, 2020, 11:33:01 PM
THE USA HAS OVERTAKEN CHINA

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on March 27, 2020, 12:28:45 AM
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Agree that it would be a difficult task...Its more a case of trusting people to be honest and stick to the rules for their own safety..
From tomorrow, the whole of Russia is on a weeks fully paid holiday, people are requested to stay at home.
Those persons providing essential services are exempt.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 02:10:44 AM

Steveboy and others who may be in the romance business, how have the lockdowns and travel restrictions affected your business?

No not really probably busier actually more coming on line.. BUT less spending money or waiting around, we are down maybe 10% this month on sales, we can manage even if our sales fall 60% but I do not think much will change one thing is for sure people will always find money for the basics Fags, Booze, Sex and love..

And probably 70% of people never actually leave the sitting room so will make no difference if they are locked down or on the moon they will never travel in any case...We have members who have been on the site for 5-10 years and have never even left the country but still always on the sites nothing changes for many..

Just a bit peed we was launching our new travel business this summer.. that is still going ahead but we will have no income this year from it.. :(

We were all ready to start our new web site and run our new tours, we got every thing, stretch limo tours, foodies tours , walking tours .. still pressing on with all of that though..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90256649_137636627772855_7820494941838114816_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlKSp4aQk9aE5U6AzGyxP-4-lQidrO7epWia9PEhoYMhAws9F5FsfGzZEWkwnigVNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=5f91e822c0c1d2744d4b9ceace4a1a1b&oe=5EA16EFE)

(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90306221_137767764426408_507579935120949248_n.png?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQkhYIr5MJZpstjtMxdnRYr2Yvp2AZ0R9vRWipQA3E3Bl7lSwf8N-SibDVu1KRaDlSU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=b2291b63a507de5d403bffae1c77d264&oe=5EA2955E)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 27, 2020, 03:10:42 AM
Up thread, somebody asked how people in self quarantine can be monitored. It isn't hard. In Estonia I understand that cell phone tracking is used to monitor those who are supposed to be in isolation.

Yeah I know some smart Alec is going to say 'but they can just leave their phone behind when they go out'. While that's true I can't imagine that the smart people setting up such a system would not have thought about that. I can think of easy ways to foil that idea and I am not the smartest person in the room.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 03:22:40 AM
[ I've had a persistent dry cough but nothing else, I may or may not have had it too. Either way, I've stayed clear of my parents and I'm currently doing what the government is asking.

There's a good chap .    I'm being SERIOUS .... too many seem to be living life as 'normal'.

Your bang on here Moby. Far too many folks still don't comprehend the seriousness of the situation or understand that 3 weeks of pain (sitting in the comfort of your own home with all its luxury's) could shorten the crisis and prevent the economy from complete collapse.

I've never seen so many people out shopping, walking, running and gossiping in my life. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 03:23:48 AM
The reason why USA and Europe is going to be impacted differently is because of Trump's early Jan travel restrictions on people who passed through China. Trump also later banned travel from Europe when he learned most of our infections are coming from Europe instead of China.

I hope you're correct but I suspect your post won't age well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52044452

Virus surges in US as death toll passes 1,000.

Coronavirus: US overtakes China with most cases

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52056586
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 03:25:11 AM
I feel sorry for folks trapped in nations that have closed their borders and they become outcasts ..

SC made it home overnight - no quarantine or stay at home requested  - as she'd been in Thailand for over 30 days


At midnight, Moscow time, all flights   ( scheduled and charters) will be refused entry to RU airspace - so only repatriation flights from now on

Utter bollox...
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..
There are now serious fines for failing to do so..
IF she is infected, and infects another who dies from the infection, its a large fine and possibly 7yr prison time...

 :popcorn: :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 03:28:52 AM
EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Easy!! $20,000 fine or 7 years in prison would you risk that? What is it in the Uk 25.00 pounds?  :laugh:

£60 reduced to £30 if paid in 14 days or something. A bit like a parking ticket.

Then it doubles each time until some point when it becomes a criminal offence etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52053527
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 03:43:26 AM
Up thread, somebody asked how people in self quarantine can be monitored. It isn't hard. In Estonia I understand that cell phone tracking is used to monitor those who are supposed to be in isolation.

Yeah I know some smart Alec is going to say 'but they can just leave their phone behind when they go out'. While that's true I can't imagine that the smart people setting up such a system would not have thought about that. I can think of easy ways to foil that idea and I am not the smartest person in the room.

So what's the current setup in Estonia Andrew, in terms of do's, don't's and daily routine?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 03:46:21 AM

EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Gypo, where YOU returning from Thailand and interviewed and questioned ? 

IF SC had been asked to self-isolate .. I'd have reported it, here ..

I have begged her to stay indoors, anyway

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 03:50:49 AM
Were you ? ( not wher)

They took SC's details and THAT was it ..

I was amazed ..same for others more than 30 days in TH who came back on the 20th, 23rd March ...   

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 04:40:52 AM
Boris got it!! And looks like Putin may have it a few in his administration picked it up...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 27, 2020, 05:02:09 AM
Boris got it!! And looks like Putin may have it a few in his administration picked it up...

And so it begins .....

I don't think Putin has it though, he usually is super careful about stuff like that
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 05:09:24 AM
Boris got it!! And looks like Putin may have it a few in his administration picked it up...

And so it begins .....

I don't think Putin has it though, he usually is super careful about stuff like that

Yeah things may hot up very soon once a few world leaders drop down dead.. Royalty going down like flies .. that's it I'm staying in now!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 27, 2020, 05:34:35 AM
Till lindemann, lead-singer of German band RAMMSTEIN had Corona-virus.

He was on the intensive-care of a german hospital, but is recovering and moved to a regular care bed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 05:41:15 AM
Till lindemann, lead-singer of German band RAMMSTEIN had Corona-virus.

He was on the intensive-care of a german hospital, but is recovering and moved to a regular care bed.

We have tickets to watch them in Tallinn this summer ... don't think that will happen now..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 27, 2020, 06:26:37 AM
If Prince Charlie and Good Old Boris have the WuFlu... Begs the Question if UK really taking this seriously or just going the 80/20 herd immunity route...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 06:29:37 AM
My parents are locked down getting some food deliveries from my sisters.. sent them a video to show them how lucky they are it was not 2000 years ago..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 07:01:55 AM
Good movie..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 27, 2020, 07:40:35 AM
Pros:. Very innovative Masks Design 99.7% filtration.

Cons: Antifa look guaranteed to scare begeezus out of any store clerks or folks on the street you bump into.

https://islandtech.co/oxybreath/US/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyPbzBRDsARIsAFh15Jb1batH2DwmGDFoXJN7CWdjY0mwZYw0wNSq1DQl2Qzx4kB4gZsLjawaArUBEALw_wcB
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 27, 2020, 08:14:40 AM
Tough ol’ gal recovers!

90-year-old resident of Life Care Center, Washington nursing home hit by COVID-19, recovers from virus


https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/90-year-old-resident-of-life-care-center-washington-nursing-home-hit-by-covid-19-recovers-from-virus
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 08:18:25 AM

We were all ready to start our new web site and run our new tours, we got every thing, stretch limo tours, foodies tours , walking tours .. still pressing on with all of that though..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90256649_137636627772855_7820494941838114816_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlKSp4aQk9aE5U6AzGyxP-4-lQidrO7epWia9PEhoYMhAws9F5FsfGzZEWkwnigVNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=5f91e822c0c1d2744d4b9ceace4a1a1b&oe=5EA16EFE)

(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90306221_137767764426408_507579935120949248_n.png?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQkhYIr5MJZpstjtMxdnRYr2Yvp2AZ0R9vRWipQA3E3Bl7lSwf8N-SibDVu1KRaDlSU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=b2291b63a507de5d403bffae1c77d264&oe=5EA2955E)


Update your ads to say "Virus free! 100% guarantee or your life back". Seriously though, if test kits become abundant and cheap, you may want to make it mandatory for everybody in the group to get tested before grouping together. Gives customers peace of mind.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 27, 2020, 08:23:26 AM
6 reasons to calm your fears.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/6-solid-scientific-reasons-to-assuage-your-coronavirus-panic/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 08:25:29 AM
Boris got it!! And looks like Putin may have it a few in his administration picked it up...

Well, the irony

Now the UK Health Minister has the virus, too

WHY are these guys tested, when NHS staff aren't ?..





Those who know Russians - they oft claim, " not to give a sh*t" and this video is a scary reminder of why quarantining Russians seems to apply to everyone else ...







 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 08:53:39 AM

We were all ready to start our new web site and run our new tours, we got every thing, stretch limo tours, foodies tours , walking tours .. still pressing on with all of that though..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90256649_137636627772855_7820494941838114816_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlKSp4aQk9aE5U6AzGyxP-4-lQidrO7epWia9PEhoYMhAws9F5FsfGzZEWkwnigVNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=5f91e822c0c1d2744d4b9ceace4a1a1b&oe=5EA16EFE)

(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90306221_137767764426408_507579935120949248_n.png?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQkhYIr5MJZpstjtMxdnRYr2Yvp2AZ0R9vRWipQA3E3Bl7lSwf8N-SibDVu1KRaDlSU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=b2291b63a507de5d403bffae1c77d264&oe=5EA2955E)


Update your ads to say "Virus free! 100% guarantee or your life back". Seriously though, if test kits become abundant and cheap, you may want to make it mandatory for everybody in the group to get tested before grouping together. Gives customers peace of mind.


I don't need all that will just wait till it is over we still have not got the site online yet ... and we are planning to do photo shoots and promo videos as soon as the weather gets better , I'm not bothered about the business waiting till next summer to launch but if we are locked down all summer I will not even be able to get the photos and stuff done that will be the worst part!!



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 27, 2020, 10:33:47 AM
Confirmed by Spain once again!

Spain bought 5.5 million tests from China to get coronavirus diagnoses in 10 or 15 minutes.

However, the Carlos III Institute of Health "has detected a sensitivity that does not correspond to what is set out in the technical data sheet". The scientific society warns that these tests "indicate a sensitivity of less than 30%", when experts say they should exceed 80%.
https://www.economiadigital.es/politica-y-sociedad/coronavirus-test-rapidos-que-llegaron-a-espana-no-son-fiables_20047536_102.html (https://www.economiadigital.es/politica-y-sociedad/coronavirus-test-rapidos-que-llegaron-a-espana-no-son-fiables_20047536_102.html)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 27, 2020, 10:40:04 AM
My parents are locked down getting some food deliveries from my sisters.

Where are they now in Russia?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 10:48:26 AM
My parents are locked down getting some food deliveries from my sisters.

Where are they now in Russia?


noooooo Dorset in the UK..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 11:05:14 AM

Well, the irony

Now the UK Health Minister has the virus, too

WHY are these guys tested, when NHS staff aren't ?..

Fake news Moby.

NHS staff ‘can access covid-19 testing’, government insists

The announcement follows concerns from healthcare professionals they are not being tested for the virus, even if they had been exposed to infected patients.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/nhs-staff-can-access-covid-19-testing-government-insists/7027133.article

Always helpful to be less emotional and deal with facts before you get upset and argue with strangers.

I'm also guessing that those elected to govern our country, are high priority when it comes to testing and their health. I know you would prefer Sandra, 72 from Croydon, to be tested before your government MP's but thats not how it works in the real world.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on March 27, 2020, 11:08:31 AM

EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.

Gypo, where YOU returning from Thailand and interviewed and questioned ? 

IF SC had been asked to self-isolate .. I'd have reported it, here ..

I have begged her to stay indoors, anyway

No I wasn't thankfully, and neither was you, so your sarcastic comment was unnecessary Cnut.

I was in Russia last week when it was stated by the government that ALL persons entering Russia must self isolate, this for foreigners, returning residents etc, were you here then??

Its quite possible that SK/SC/SS told you but your proficiency in the Russia language is lacking..

Go away in short sharp jerky movements little man....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 27, 2020, 12:57:30 PM
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

Two things to consider.   Passover and Noah's Ark.   :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 01:00:12 PM

Well, the irony

Now the UK Health Minister has the virus, too

WHY are these guys tested, when NHS staff aren't ?..


Fake news Moby.
]NHS staff ‘can access covid-19 testing’, government insists

The announcement follows concerns from healthcare professionals they are not being tested for the virus, even if they had been exposed to infected patients.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/nhs-staff-can-access-covid-19-testing-government-insists/7027133.article

Always helpful to be less emotional and deal with facts before you get upset and argue with strangers.

You are a VERY silly young man to argue with me on this:

1/ Just rang a mate who's wife is a theatre nurse in a Glos'shire hospital - she was home... he put her on speaker phone and laughed ( ironically) at your telling me they are being tested ... "Why have I got three colleagues staying at home and why am I working so much overtime to cover for them, as if they were tested - they'd be allowed back, if not positive .?."

2/ Retired theatre nurse in  Dumfries and Galloway  - cannot return to work as hubbie may have had a patient ( he's a dentist) who had the virus- not being tested

3/ Micro-biologist mate in Angelsey prob had it and may have passed in on to a others - so they cannot work in NHS roles ... NOT being tested

REALITY


"Lack of virus testing is hitting NHS staff numbers
Medical bodies say government needs to prioritise health workers"

FT from 23 hours ago

See what happens when you believe the govt over the troops on the ground ? ....

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 01:00:47 PM
Financial Times link:

https://www.ft.com/content/0ef95c7f-f08c-4b1b-ade9-531f40d776e9
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 27, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Quote
But if you simply want to get things back to normal by Easter, you might take some solace in the fact that so many more people die of the flu each year than have died of the novel coronavirus so far. You might just convince yourself that, hey, we go through infections like this all the time.

If you’re inclined toward that line of argument, you might notice something else about Trump’s tweet from March 9 in which he compared the coronavirus to the flu. Since then, the number of coronavirus deaths is 27 times bigger. The number of confirmed cases is 85 times as large.

In the past 15 days.

The "tortoise" will overtake the "hare".  Note that viruses love to attach themselves to human nerve cells  (polio virus is an example).  We will use your cells to make more of myself.   (:) :( :snivel: :sick0012: :biggrin: :scared0005: :bow: :evilgrin0002: :whist11:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polio-3-chains.png   Look familiar?    (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 27, 2020, 01:15:35 PM
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

Two things to consider.   Passover and Noah's Ark.   :nod:

If the Lord will not help you best to start singing..


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 27, 2020, 01:24:48 PM
Quote
"It will be on-the-job emergency training,"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/27/coronavirus-hospitals-face-shortages-respiratory-therapists-run-ventilators/2914635001/

Not enough pulmonologists and respiratory therapists.  I worked with a ventilator for nearly a decade.  A 24/7 operation. Unfortunately, mistakes and decisions will be made.  Even if you survive, nothing returns back to normal.  :snivel: :saint:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 27, 2020, 01:31:29 PM
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.


Two things to consider.   Passover and Noah's Ark.   :nod:

If the Lord will not help you best to start singing..

Quote
"We won't be signing off until the world ends. ... We'll be ... covering it live. ... [And] when the end of the world comes, we'll play 'Nearer My God to Thee' before we sign off."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nearer,_My_God,_to_Thee
 :GRAVE: :saint:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 01:35:10 PM

EVERYONE returning to Russia from Thailand are required to self isolate for 14 days..

How can they police that? Like here, I dont think they can.


Gypo, where YOU returning from Thailand and interviewed and questioned ? 

IF SC had been asked to self-isolate .. I'd have reported it, here ..

I have begged her to stay indoors, anyway


No I wasn't thankfully, and neither was you, so your sarcastic comment was unnecessary Cnut.

Ah, so you must be suggesting SC was 'making it up'...or I 'misunderstood' ?



I was in Russia last week when it was stated by the government that ALL persons entering Russia must self isolate, this for foreigners, returning residents etc, were you here then??

No, but my wife entered the nation yesterday, was questioned, had her details taken was asked where she was going and how she was getting to Sochi...  She specifically asked, "no quarantine ?"



Its quite possible that SK/SC/SS told you but your proficiency in the Russia language is lacking..

Not a chance ... we discussed this in English AND Russian ..We discussed how she should socially distance, anyway


Go away in short sharp jerky movements little man....

YOU were the poster questioning hat happened to my wife ... your 'response' seems a might petulant ...  Who entered Russia more recently ? Did you fly from Thailand - had you been there for more than 30 days and not in any other nation in that period ?

Those were the questions asked - her passport was checked.. details taken .. NO quarantine, NO self-isolation required

'Thank you' ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 27, 2020, 01:36:06 PM

Well, the irony

Now the UK Health Minister has the virus, too

WHY are these guys tested, when NHS staff aren't ?..


Fake news Moby.
]NHS staff ‘can access covid-19 testing’, government insists

The announcement follows concerns from healthcare professionals they are not being tested for the virus, even if they had been exposed to infected patients.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/nhs-staff-can-access-covid-19-testing-government-insists/7027133.article

Always helpful to be less emotional and deal with facts before you get upset and argue with strangers.

You are a VERY silly young man to argue with me on this:

1/ Just rang a mate who's wife is a theatre nurse in a Glos'shire hospital - she was home... he put her on speaker phone and laughed ( ironically) at your telling me they are being tested ... "Why have I got three colleagues staying at home and why am I working so much overtime to cover for them, as if they were tested - they'd be allowed back, if not positive .?."

2/ Retired theatre nurse in  Dumfries and Galloway  - cannot return to work as hubbie may have had a patient ( he's a dentist) who had the virus- not being tested

3/ Micro-biologist mate in Angelsey prob had it and may have passed in on to a others - so they cannot work in NHS roles ... NOT being tested

REALITY


"Lack of virus testing is hitting NHS staff numbers
Medical bodies say government needs to prioritise health workers"

FT from 23 hours ago

See what happens when you believe the govt over the troops on the ground ? ....

Have you heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 27, 2020, 01:51:11 PM
Have you heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?

Let me guess; a white whale ate him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 27, 2020, 03:05:49 PM
Mystic now has more very convenient friends who can tell him how wrong we are and how right he is.

Oh, how they laughed at our howlers!

Mystic, try another tack, this is just so old!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 27, 2020, 04:28:08 PM
Pros:. Very innovative Masks Design 99.7% filtration.

Cons: Antifa look guaranteed to scare begeezus out of any store clerks or folks on the street you bump into.

https://islandtech.co/oxybreath/US/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyPbzBRDsARIsAFh15Jb1batH2DwmGDFoXJN7CWdjY0mwZYw0wNSq1DQl2Qzx4kB4gZsLjawaArUBEALw_wcB

Ridiculous money. The ones I have in the air will be a fraction of that when they land.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 27, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Those things were $10 each a few days ago.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 27, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
Those things were $10 each a few days ago.

Mine will be less than that delivered each.

I'm more looking at moving boxes of 30 at happier money.

My helpy bird over there has done the deal with the factory and is booking UPS as we speak. I'm hopeful of seeing them back end of next week, depending on customs delays.

I've had stuff stuck at Taiwan Taoyuan most of this week and I know UK preclearance is moving slowly from those countries due to catch up volumes. But it is moving, my Taiwan swag is now in Germany so I'll see it Monday.

I've a shipment from the US that's slower. Dealing with DHL from the US is like pulling teeth. Give me DPD, UPS or even TNT any day.

Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 05:15:04 PM
If you're American and sitting at home everyday, get off the video games and porn and watch Trump and Co. daily press conferences to see how our government is working for us. I'm impressed with VP Pence who doesn't sleep much in working hard to fight the virus. Government agencies and private companies are working around the clock to make supplies and get food to kids out of school. Shows the American spirit of people coming together in crisis. Trump did have to kick GM in the butt to move faster in making respirators.

Interesting moment today when a reporter said a Wall Street Journal article just came out saying Trump is dropping tariffs on China. Trump said it was fake news and he never talked about dropping tariffs on China after speaking to the Chinese president last night. Trump said the Wall Street Journal writes a lot of fake news.

Stories are coming out that NY city mayor Deblasio didn't take the virus threat seriously and even tweeted early March "Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus, I thought I would offer some suggestions. Here’s the first: thru Thurs 3/5 go see “The Traitor”  @FilmLinc . If “The Wire” was a true story + set in Italy, it would be this film." It's cool if he didn't prepare NY earlier because he can just blame it on Trump and the media will back him up and people will believe him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 27, 2020, 05:56:50 PM
"Europe's last dictator"
won't let sports stop during coronavirus

(https://images.axios.com/cUrMiYNA9IGV1YzjstSG8wN73uk=/0x0:1920x1080/1920x1080/2020/03/27/1585308109940.jpg)

https://www.axios.com/europes-last-dictator-sports-coronavirus-46e7cdac-6cc9-4d0f-b4c0-4c2b32bf0889.html (https://www.axios.com/europes-last-dictator-sports-coronavirus-46e7cdac-6cc9-4d0f-b4c0-4c2b32bf0889.html)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 06:27:38 PM

Lukashenko recommends open borders, drinking vodka and visiting saunas. Belarus reports zero deaths. Wiz, remind us in a month about the state of Belarus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 27, 2020, 09:17:03 PM
Perhaps Andrew and a few others can offer some commentary on this article.

Quote

From Stanford U, Stolen from a friend:

TLDR: We have to start doing serological (antibody) testing to know how bad this bug actually is.

Quote

If it’s true that the novel coronavirus would kill millions without shelter-in-place orders and quarantines, then the extraordinary measures being carried out in cities and states around the country are surely justified. But there’s little evidence to
 that premise—and projections of the death toll could plausibly be orders of magnitude too high.

Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate—2% to 4% of people with confirmed Covid-19 have died, according to the World Health Organization and others. So if 100 million Americans ultimately get the disease, two million to four million could die. We believe that estimate is deeply flawed. The true fatality rate is the portion of those infected who die, not the deaths from identified positive cases.

The latter rate is misleading because of selection bias in testing. The degree of bias is uncertain because available data are limited. But it could make the difference between an epidemic that kills 20,000 and one that kills two million. If the number of actual infections is much larger than the number of cases—orders of magnitude larger—then the true fatality rate is much lower as well. That’s not only plausible but likely based on what we know so far.
 
Population samples from China, Italy, Iceland and the U.S. provide relevant evidence. On or around Jan. 31, countries sent planes to evacuate citizens from Wuhan, China. When those planes landed, the passengers were tested for Covid-19 and quarantined. After 14 days, the percentage who tested positive was 0.9%. If this was the prevalence in the greater Wuhan area on Jan. 31, then, with a population of about 20 million, greater Wuhan had 178,000 infections, about 30-fold more than the number of reported cases. The fatality rate, then, would be at least 10-fold lower than estimates based on reported cases.
 
Next, the northeastern Italian town of Vò, near the provincial capital of Padua. On March 6, all 3,300 people of Vò were tested, and 90 were positive, a prevalence of 2.7%. Applying that prevalence to the whole province (population 955,000), which had 198 reported cases, suggests there were actually 26,000 infections at that time. That’s more than 130-fold the number of actual reported cases. Since Italy’s case fatality rate of 8% is estimated using the confirmed cases, the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%.
In Iceland, deCode Genetics is working with the government to perform widespread testing. In a sample of nearly 2,000 entirely asymptomatic people, researchers estimated disease prevalence of just over 1%. Iceland’s first case was reported on Feb. 28, weeks behind the U.S. It’s plausible that the proportion of the U.S. population that has been infected is double, triple or even 10 times as high as the estimates from Iceland. That also implies a dramatically lower fatality rate.

The best (albeit very weak) evidence in the U.S. comes from the National Basketball Association. Between March 11 and 19, a substantial number of NBA players and teams received testing. By March 19, 10 out of 450 rostered players were positive. Since not everyone was tested, that represents a lower bound on the prevalence of 2.2%. The NBA isn’t a representative population, and contact among players might have facilitated transmission. But if we extend that lower-bound assumption to cities with NBA teams (population 45 million), we get at least 990,000 infections in the U.S. The number of cases reported on March 19 in the U.S. was 13,677, more than 72-fold lower. These numbers imply a fatality rate from Covid-19 orders of magnitude smaller than it appears.

How can we reconcile these estimates with the epidemiological models? First, the test used to identify cases doesn’t catch people who were infected and recovered. Second, testing rates were woefully low for a long time and typically reserved for the severely ill. Together, these facts imply that the confirmed cases are likely orders of magnitude less than the true number of infections. Epidemiological modelers haven’t adequately adapted their estimates to account for these factors.

The epidemic started in China sometime in November or December. The first confirmed U.S. cases included a person who traveled from Wuhan on Jan. 15, and it is likely that the virus entered before that: Tens of thousands of people traveled from Wuhan to the U.S. in December. Existing evidence suggests that the virus is highly transmissible and that the number of infections doubles roughly every three days. An epidemic seed on Jan. 1 implies that by March 9 about six million people in the U.S. would have been infected. As of March 23, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were 499 Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. If our surmise of six million cases is accurate, that’s a mortality rate of 0.01%, assuming a two week lag between infection and death. This is one-tenth of the flu mortality rate of 0.1%. Such a low death rate would be cause for optimism.
This does not make Covid-19 a nonissue. The daily reports from Italy and across the U.S. show real struggles and overwhelmed health systems. But a 20,000- or 40,000-death epidemic is a far less severe problem than one that kills two million. Given the enormous consequences of decisions around Covid-19 response, getting clear data to guide decisions now is critical. We don’t know the true infection rate in the U.S. Antibody testing of representative samples to measure disease prevalence (including the recovered) is crucial. Nearly every day a new lab gets approval for antibody testing, so population testing using this technology is now feasible.

If we’re right about the limited scale of the epidemic, then measures focused on older populations and hospitals are sensible. Elective procedures will need to be rescheduled. Hospital resources will need to be reallocated to care for critically ill patients. Triage will need to improve. And policy makers will need to focus on reducing risks for older adults and people with underlying medical conditions.

A universal quarantine may not be worth the costs it imposes on the economy, community and individual mental and physical health. We should undertake immediate steps to evaluate the empirical basis of the current lockdowns.

Dr. Bendavid and Dr. Bhattacharya are professors of medicine at Stanford. Neeraj Sood contributed to this article.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 27, 2020, 09:20:21 PM
Those things were $10 each a few days ago.

Mine will be less than that delivered each.

I’m more looking at moving boxes of 30 at happier money.

My helpy bird over there has done the deal with the factory and is booking UPS as we speak. I’m hopeful of seeing them back end of next week, depending on customs delays.

I’ve had stuff stuck at Taiwan Taoyuan most of this week and I know UK preclearance is moving slowly from those countries due to catch up volumes. But it is moving, my Taiwan swag is now in Germany so I’ll see it Monday.

I’ve a shipment from the US that’s slower. Dealing with DHL from the US is like pulling teeth. Give me DPD, UPS or even TNT any day.

Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.

Curious, do you deliver those to the USA?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Now, I'm no fan of the DM as it can take reality and twist it to suit... but as many US folk on here use it as a source..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8160961/LA-teen-denied-care-no-insurance-death.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8160961/LA-teen-denied-care-no-insurance-death.html)

LA teen who died before testing positive for COVID-19 was turned away from urgent care because he didn't have insurance


Can this be true ?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 27, 2020, 09:35:15 PM
'Mystic and his 'invisible'  mates seem to have a great number of UK press articles to back up their case..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-uk-staff-testing-hospital-wards-update-555-a9430896.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-uk-staff-testing-hospital-wards-update-555-a9430896.html)

Coronavirus: Frontline NHS staff will be tested for Covid-19 from next week after criticism
Move designed to end dilemma where doctors and nurses who suspect they have symptoms must stay at home – or risk infecting others


There are folk on here who try to suggest I 'made this up' ?...

Our govt has been testing politicians over the f'n frontline NHS staff who are sat on their arses , at home ( and trying to stay away from their kids ) when they might not BE infected and could still be working  >:(

These tests has been available to the UK govt for weeks ..








Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2020, 09:44:36 PM

Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate—2% to 4% of people with confirmed Covid-19 have died, according to the World Health Organization and others.


That sentence came from a Wall Street Journal opinion piece. WHO never estimated case fatality rate so I don't know why they claimed it. Fake news. Most people, including experts, don't know how to compute case fatality rate. The formula is deaths divided by deaths plus recoveries. So in Italy's case, Deaths(9134) divided by (deaths(9134) plus recoveries(10,950)) which is 9134 divided by 20,084 equals .4547 which is a case rate of 45.4% that Italy is currently experiencing. The Spanish flu had a case rate of 2%.

There are some estimates 90% of the people out there aren't detected and recover fine and not be recorded and if true, the case rate would drop to about 4.5% for Italy. Still a very dangerous virus if it ends up being a 4.5% mortality rate. If you don't die from the virus the first time you get it, you may eventually die after you get it multiple times in your life.

Our hospitals can serve communities for all sorts of illnesses and injuries just fine but this one virus will overload them if just a fraction of the population gets infected. Italy already lost 40 doctors. Replacing soldiers is easy since it takes a couple of months training a person to become a soldier, it takes years of education to become a doctor. It's not easy to replace medical personnel once they're gone.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 28, 2020, 01:41:33 AM
Those things were $10 each a few days ago.

Mine will be less than that delivered each.

I’m more looking at moving boxes of 30 at happier money.

My helpy bird over there has done the deal with the factory and is booking UPS as we speak. I’m hopeful of seeing them back end of next week, depending on customs delays.

I’ve had stuff stuck at Taiwan Taoyuan most of this week and I know UK preclearance is moving slowly from those countries due to catch up volumes. But it is moving, my Taiwan swag is now in Germany so I’ll see it Monday.

I’ve a shipment from the US that’s slower. Dealing with DHL from the US is like pulling teeth. Give me DPD, UPS or even TNT any day.

Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.

Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.. I had a winning Euro lottery ticket with last weeks winning number!! I can't find the bloody thing anywhere.. bloody virus!! :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 28, 2020, 01:48:23 AM


Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.. I had a winning Euro lottery ticket with last weeks winning number!! I can't find the bloody thing anywhere.. bloody virus!! :laugh:

Good one, Steve ..

PS Even if it WAS true.. unless you were in the UK, when it was bought ... it'd be void (
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 28, 2020, 02:46:44 AM
Mystic, the testing to which you refer is antibody testing. Until a few days ago this testing was not available anywhere. Its purpose is to ascertain who has immunity to covid-19.

There has been no delay in this testing. It didn't exist.

Now, as to whether you know this and were being dishonest - again - we can't be sure, but given your track record for dishonesty, I'd not bet on you being honest here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Omega1982 on March 28, 2020, 02:50:33 AM
Those things were $10 each a few days ago.

Mine will be less than that delivered each.

I’m more looking at moving boxes of 30 at happier money.

My helpy bird over there has done the deal with the factory and is booking UPS as we speak. I’m hopeful of seeing them back end of next week, depending on customs delays.

I’ve had stuff stuck at Taiwan Taoyuan most of this week and I know UK preclearance is moving slowly from those countries due to catch up volumes. But it is moving, my Taiwan swag is now in Germany so I’ll see it Monday.

I’ve a shipment from the US that’s slower. Dealing with DHL from the US is like pulling teeth. Give me DPD, UPS or even TNT any day.

Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.


Manny you're not concerned about the economic and health crisis? 

When do you think there will be a sense of normality in the west? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 28, 2020, 02:54:09 AM
=====
Manny, are the ones you are importing disposable or, as claimed by the seller of the ones in cufflinks link reusable?

By the way, there are loads of people selling this design of black fabric mask. Given what I have seen elsewhere, I'd take the claims made for them with a large pinch of salt. They appear to be a credible courtesy mask but useless for keeping viruses from entering ones mouth or nose.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 28, 2020, 03:19:08 AM
=====
Manny, are the ones you are importing disposable or, as claimed by the seller of the ones in cufflinks link reusable?

By the way, there are loads of people selling this design of black fabric mask. Given what I have seen elsewhere, I'd take the claims made for them with a large pinch of salt. They appear to be a credible courtesy mask but useless for keeping viruses from entering ones mouth or nose.

They are just cheap Chinese reproductions.. no good really.. :laugh:

You need Military grade ones that cover the eyes and a full bio suit if you really want protection.. If anyone is in Russia and needs it let me know I can send you some links to buy proper stuff..you need eye protection also the virus gets in via your eyes.. all those masks are a waste of time..

If you have no eye protection a mask simply will not help you.. you also need to cover your hair, very important it can stay in your hair..

Here is Mother in law ready to go to a shop..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91785633_2687810704651150_1285134685470457856_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQngw7bTIPC-8qgfTlJ2b6tD9ztk2k4DuDp8PuLjm8-WOd7l8IDuoRPtIDshij6Jmk4&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=c6e3851b357a33c4074f74387222c874&oe=5EA4D7B8)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 28, 2020, 03:27:26 AM
Mystic, the testing to which you refer is antibody testing. Until a few days ago this testing was not available anywhere. Its purpose is to ascertain who has immunity to covid-19.

There has been no delay in this testing. It didn't exist.

Now, as to whether you know this and were being dishonest - again - we can't be sure, but given your track record for dishonesty, I'd not bet on you being honest here.

Dear 'honest' andrewfi..

Once again your have proven it is better to know someone who understands than prove YOU read something on google and posted daft.

There have been antibodies present and ready for the govt / NHS to order from within the UK ( at least two Belfast firms) for weeks...

For those of us who appreciate that and know  many NHS staff have been 'removed' from availability, needlessly, this is has been a scandal.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 28, 2020, 04:21:11 AM
FYI...

“Tell me again how we can use bomb-sniffing tech to identify COVID-19 infections!”

Yes, you read that right. Researchers adapted technology that’s typically used to sniff out bombs to test for the coronavirus. And you thought you’d never willingly agree to a Breathalyzer test!

The company is Astrotech Corp. (Nasdaq: ASTC), and the product is the BreathTest-1000. While both the company and product names sound like they’re out of The Jetsons, they’re both very real. (Ruh roh, Reorge!)

According to Astrotech, the BreathTest-1000 is “ideal for lung disease testing applications” and could be used to test for COVID-19, pneumonia and other lung infections. The device is still pending approval, but since it’s based on existing bomb-sniffing tech, Astrotech believes that it’ll need very few changes before it’s commercially available.

As the COVID-19 pandemic drags on, this technology could be a game changer. ASTC shares soared more than 240% this week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 28, 2020, 04:24:31 AM
This is what really pees me off .. little dick heads like this out with their bloody begging bowls in the time of need..

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/virgin-atlantic-seek-millions-state-192813421.html

Let it fall. That’s capitalism, you can’t have all the rewards but none of the risk.. jumped up little ass hole!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 28, 2020, 05:21:15 AM
Interesting news reports Sat morning... Rhode Island and Massachusetts military police in RI (National Guard) to be posse comitatus compliant and State Police in Mass...
Anyone with epicenter State of New York license plates being pulled over and interrogated about their business and destination ostensibly for contact tracing.  In SJW sanctuary state Massachusetts all invaders err ah umm New York refugees being required to quarantine for 14 days.

New Hampshire's great Governor who signed in Constitutional Concealed Carry law managed to set libertarians and other Ron Paul type Liberty lovers bloody hair on fire with a stay at home order as of midnight last night.  So much for Live Free or Die.

People dying off like diseased rats in Italy and Spain has the USA terrified really... 40 doctors in Italy DEAD 10% of all Italian cases health care workers... Even with PPE easy to get.

Achtung your papers please.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 28, 2020, 05:23:34 AM
10% of all Italian cases health care workers... Even with PPE easy to get.

Mikey,

Please give us your 'source' for this 'contention' ...

Take your time
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 28, 2020, 05:56:49 AM
Russia is selling out of condoms fast!! seems also guns and ammunition are going well also..

https://news.rambler.ru/world/43919650-miru-predrekli-defitsit-prezervativov/?utm_source=head&utm_campaign=self_promo&utm_medium=news&utm_content=news&h_sp=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 28, 2020, 06:53:18 AM
Those things were $10 each a few days ago.

Mine will be less than that delivered each.

I’m more looking at moving boxes of 30 at happier money.

My helpy bird over there has done the deal with the factory and is booking UPS as we speak. I’m hopeful of seeing them back end of next week, depending on customs delays.

I’ve had stuff stuck at Taiwan Taoyuan most of this week and I know UK preclearance is moving slowly from those countries due to catch up volumes. But it is moving, my Taiwan swag is now in Germany so I’ll see it Monday.

I’ve a shipment from the US that’s slower. Dealing with DHL from the US is like pulling teeth. Give me DPD, UPS or even TNT any day.

Everyone is blaming everything on the virus at the moment.


Manny you're not concerned about the economic and health crisis? 

When do you think there will be a sense of normality in the west?

It'll pass like it is doing in Asia.

It'll pass slower for the US as its bad there and y'all have no lockdown.

The economy wont go away, it may change a bit. People will still buy things. This is a blip, not a recession.

Manny, are the ones you are importing disposable or, as claimed by the seller of the ones in cufflinks link reusable?

By the way, there are loads of people selling this design of black fabric mask. Given what I have seen elsewhere, I'd take the claims made for them with a large pinch of salt. They appear to be a credible courtesy mask but useless for keeping viruses from entering ones mouth or nose.

People can claim anything they like. I'd regard them as short term use, depends how long you wear one for. Some reuse them after microwaving them or something.....

N95 (KN95 in the US) is the standard. That's antiviral, not just the loose medical masks.

Curious, do you deliver those to the USA?

I could, but the tracking may make it dear. I'd imagine they might be cheaper locally or from somewhere like Ali Baba. But I could.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 28, 2020, 07:34:18 AM
Not sure about the mask,
But I disagree on the economy.
It may not be a recession yet,
but it will be.
currently in Canada alone over 60% of all business is closed.
which means those folks aren't working.

Even with some Gov money to hold them over, it won't be same as
wage they make when working. SO some savings will go.
Lots of companies will be gone etc. etc.

You think all the  restaurants that are closed will survive ?
Even the ones that do, how long before they make up lost money?
Economy has not been discussed at great lengths yet.
bit trillions is likely what it will cost and the longer it goes the more
it costs and longer it takes to recover.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
It'll pass like it is doing in Asia.


Why would the virus just go away? Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong are already starting to take action on the next wave that's showing up. All it takes is one infected person in the country or person from another country to import it in the country and the cycles begins all over again. No country in the world has tested 100% of it's population so every country can expect there are still infected people inside their borders and the virus to spread again and again and again. China and North Korea may not be talking but other Asian nations are more honest about the actions they're taking on a growing second wave.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/taiwan-closes-borders-in-preparation-for-possible-second-wave-of-the-coronavirus/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/singapore-taiwan-and-hong-kong-face-second-wave-of-coronavirus-cases-11584445836

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 28, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
It'll pass like it is doing in Asia.


Why would the virus just go away? Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong are already starting to take action on the next wave that's showing up. All it takes is one infected person in the country or person from another country to import it in the country and the cycles begins all over again. No country in the world has tested 100% of it's population so every country can expect there are still infected people inside their borders and the virus to spread again and again and again. China and North Korea may not be talking but other Asian nations are more honest about the actions they're taking on a growing second wave.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/taiwan-closes-borders-in-preparation-for-possible-second-wave-of-the-coronavirus/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/singapore-taiwan-and-hong-kong-face-second-wave-of-coronavirus-cases-11584445836

I didn't say it will go away, I said it will pass. By 'it', I mean the mass hysteria, disruption and lockdowns, etc. The question I replied was about normality and economics in Europe.

It's about management, not eradication in the short and medium term. Once numbers are few, normal life will resume. Hygiene practices will stay elevated, and ongoing infections will be minimised by good practice. The graph curve will flatten, then decline, then plateau at a low number. With the occasional regional spike here and there. By then it will be manageable. It won't be long till theres a vaccine. A UK company is starting human trials next week on one.

It's hard to say how it will pan out in the US. Worse than Europe I think. From what I see (and someone correct me if I am wrong here), they are treating the symptoms but not the causes. There's no lockdowns and its running rampant now due to poor practice. Without a vaccine or effective treatment in the near future the US will have a very big crisis with this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 09:42:22 AM
It won't be long till theres a vaccine. A UK company is starting human trials next week on one.


I can read articles everyday a laboratory in America has started trials or is close to finding something. Articles like the one you read in the UK are in Germany, France, and just about any other country with laboratories. They put those articles out there because it gives people hope. Without hope comes panic. Panic will kill more than the virus. There has never been a vaccine found for other coronaviruses for over 100 years man has been trying. No vaccine for SARS, MERS, or the common cold coronaviruses been ever found.

It's hard to say how it will pan out in the US. Worse than Europe I think. From what I see (and someone correct me if I am wrong here), they are treating the symptoms but not the causes. There's no lockdowns and its running rampant now due to poor practice. Without a vaccine or effective treatment in the near future the US will have a very big crisis with this.

Trump is not going to lockdown the country. He lets State and local leaders make their own decisions based on what they experience in their jurisdictions while most of our economy continues to function. After the first wave of the virus hits, America's dollar may do better than other currencies. But if Trump makes the wrong decision, we can make corrections on the next outbreak. Every nation will have to face the virus more than once.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 28, 2020, 09:58:13 AM
Medical Martial Law 2020. Corbett report.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 28, 2020, 11:31:52 AM
Looks like the UK will have no fruit and veg soon..

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/fruit-veg-run-unless-britain-170530426.html

aaa its the Guardian.. :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 11:34:39 AM
Spain's 640,000 Chinese test kits only have a 30% accuracy rating and will return them back to China. Czech Republic reported a 20% accuracy rating on Chinese test kits. Most people who are infected may be released back into the general population instead of quarantined do to the faulty results. Test kits that provide rapid results seem to make the most errors. No test kits are 100% accurate in the world. America's CDC requires at least an 80% sensitivity/accuracy. Inventing new tests for a new virus in record time is a recipe for disaster.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-spain-says-rapid-tests-sent-from-china-missing-cases-2020-3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 28, 2020, 02:38:37 PM
THE USA is five time larger than the UK. So when comparing the two countries you would need to divide the USA number by 5 or multi the UK number by five so show what a citizen chances were to survive this.  Today the UK 1028 deaths. If you times it by five you 5140 if the country were the size of the USA. The USA has a 1993 deaths. The likely hood of surviving the pandemic is better in USA up to this point. If you take infection rate the UK has 17089 per population of 65 million. The USA has 120,000 per population of 330 million. So if you multi times by five you get an infection rate of 85450 if the population of UK was the size of the USA. So far we have more infection and less death per million people than UK. If you take death/infection rate the USA is three time better than UK.  Today UK had 450 deaths and the USA had 450 deaths. Our population is five time larger so our death rate per million people was only 1/5 of what it was in UK. So when you talk about how bad it is here understand the reality.

It is true it is not over yet and it could get much worse here. But up to this point we are doing pretty good compared to most European countries. The one exception is Germany which up to this point in time has better number than USA. Spain and Italy the numbers are so bad I hate to even do a comparison. When the Hospital is over run really bad things happen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 28, 2020, 04:00:02 PM
Article

230 Years of Rights and Liberties Shredded: Why I Oppose The Lockdown


By Brandon Turbeville

Beware the lockdown: there is no disclaimer in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that they are null and void in case of terrorist attacks or viral outbreaks.

Although it was nearly 20 years ago, I can remember 9/11 like it was yesterday. I remember the shock of hearing about the planes crashing into towers, at first believing it was a tragic accident and quickly learning it to be otherwise. I remember being told that 19 hijackers, part of a fundamentalist plot to destroy America, were behind the attacks and that the mastermind was a man in a cave in Afghanistan named Osama bin Laden.

As all of America was glued to their television screens, many rushed out to give blood in an effort to at least do something to help one another. George W. Bush’s answer for Americans was to go to work and then go out and shop. Americans dutifully complied. But the government’s answer, in tandem with mainstream media, was also to be afraid. Very afraid. Americans also complied with this request, perhaps more than any other.

In the days and weeks after the initial shock, a college professor informed me about a bill called the PATRIOT ACT that would essentially eviscerate much of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. After class, I questioned him further about the bill, which he explained, and suggested that if I really wanted to understand what was happening, I should read 1984 by George Orwell. I went home and did just that and was surprised to learn that not only was he right, but that I was watching what I was reading happen in front of me in real life.

I watched as the fear of speaking your mind and saying certain words became known as freedom. I watched as Americans came to assume that their communications were listened to, frightened of what they said, but justifying it as they praised their country for being unlike the totalitarian governments of the past. Peace became war. Any suggestion that invading Afghanistan was wrong was unpatriotic. In fact, any criticism of the government was considered unpatriotic and anyone who valued freedom over temporary security was borderline a traitor.

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I watched as the United States became The Homeland and I watched as my friends had their window busted out of their car because they did not have one of those ridiculous window flags.

Still, shortly after the event itself, I began speaking out against the erosion of our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I questioned the official story of 9/11 and fought against the passage of the PATRIOT ACT. In those days, anyone who did either of these things was considered either woefully ignorant and naive or a traitor who was giving morale support to the enemy.

I spoke out after 9/11 and was largely alone with a few notable exceptions. I was forced to watch the majority of my fellow Americans give away the most precious thing they had, the things which no other country could lay claim to, and the thing that they claimed they were supporting war to protect. America gave away a huge chunk of its rights in the wake of 9/11 and, though they were promised the measures were only temporary, twenty years on we have never received them back.

Instead, police officers are now often indistinguishable from military soldiers, the United States is still in Afghanistan as well as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Ukraine, and a host of theatres across the world where its undefinable “interests” apparently lie. It is now a foregone conclusion that cellphone, internet, and all other communications are monitored. It is well understood that the iron fist of the state can come down with lack of due process and the Second Amendment is under daily attack. Torture is now general practice for foreign and domestic arrestees.

Now, here we are close to twenty years later. Americans once again have a shadowy nemesis for which our government has once again failed to provide adequate information. Once again, the governmental response is not a robust rethinking of how we got to be where we are, (in this case how medical care is provided, who has access to it, or the overarching philosophy behind it), but a massive police state, quasi martial law, and the evisceration of what is left of the liberties and rights they didn’t give away twenty years ago or give away gradually in the time between.

This time, it is not so much the President leading the charge to burn the Constitution, but Governors all across the country, acting in concert with one another. But they aren’t acting alone. Because of the massive propaganda mouthpiece of the mainstream media blasting hysteria and panic as well as the desired conclusions they intend for their audiences to reach, many Americans are demanding that their rights be taken away and that they and their fellow citizens be forced off the streets and into their homes at gunpoint.

My opposition to the potential Lockdown is twofold but principally it is based on the fact that over two hundred and thirty years of rights and liberties should not be shredded on the basis of any threat, real or imagined. Americans either have rights or we don’t. There is no asterisk in the Constitution that states the Bill of Rights is null and void in the event of a terrorist attack or a virus outbreak. If we do not maintain our rights in a time of crisis, then, simply put, we do not truly have rights at all.

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If we do not maintain these rights, our country, such as it is, ceases to exist.

As Peter Hitchens, one of the few critics of this Lockdown mentality (happening all over the world and, in his case, Britain) wrote in his recent article for the Mail Online,

All the crudest weapons of despotism, the curfew, the presumption of guilt and the power of arbitrary arrest, are taking shape in the midst of what used to be a free country. And we, who like to boast of how calm we are in a crisis, seem to despise our ancient hard-bought freedom and actually want to rush into the warm, firm arms of Big Brother.
Hitchens’ article is well worth reading, not only for his views but for his critique of the scale of the pandemic, which is highly questionable.

Secondly, we are quickly driving this country to a second Great Depression where unemployment is at levels never before seen and where only the 1% and the major banks have anything resembling wealth. This Depression will be so devastating that it will make the first look weak in comparison, not just because of employment but because of the real human toll after decades of globalism, Free Trade, and urbanization have gutted this country of its workforce, manufacturing, healthcare, education, production capabilities, and general living standards. With more Americans living urban lives and fewer and fewer farms by the day, the Second Great Depression will kill many more people than the virus and leave those left alive scrounging for crumbs at the bottom. Already, since the beginning of this virus emergency, we have witnessed a huge transfer of wealth from the lower classes to the higher and we will no doubt witness more as this insane Lockdown attempt continues.

After the Lockdown passes, Americans will complain about low wages and lack of work. They will wait in lines for benefits that may or may not exist and that will be lower than their current living standards require. Unlike the loss of their rights, the benefits will be temporary. But Americans won’t be able to fully blame Wall Street this time around since it was the media and the people who listen to it who were howling in the streets for Lockdowns and shutdowns. They will have gotten what they wanted as well as the opportunity to live to regret it.

So here I am, twenty years after a writing career began as a result of generally good people who were frightened into giving away their rights, writing about exactly the same thing yet again. Of course, there may be time to reverse the direction in which we are heading. The next few weeks will most likely determine that matter. One thing is for certain, however, if Americans give up their rights now, they will never get them back.

I don’t have any illusions about the effect this article will have on the direction we are heading as a nation. Instead, I expect it to bring about more criticism, more insults, and more claims that I am no longer “credible” as the propaganda repeaters seen on the major cable networks are credible. But it will be worth it, for no other reason than to register my voice so that, for the record, there was at least a few people who retained their sanity through this worldwide era of panic and did not willingly sacrifice his rights on the altar of fear.

If we are able to step back from the abyss, perhaps the “credibility” and respect that I lose from peers as a result of this article will someday be returned. But if we are not able to step back, I can’t imagine anyone will be able to remember anything I’ve said here and, if that is the case, it probably wouldn’t matter if they did.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/230-years-of-rights-liberties-shredded-oppose-lockdown/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 28, 2020, 04:20:06 PM
Trump is not going to lockdown the country.

He doesn’t grasp the subject. He isn’t bright enough. The top job isn’t really for a slum landlord, casino shark or reality TV star. It takes a thinking bloke to deal with a crisis such as this.

In the absence of a cure or vaccine, it’s lockdown and starve it out, or herd immunity. As you have no effective health care that is free at the point of delivery, and sclerotic administration, coupled with many unthinking citizens and lots of guns, herd immunity it is. Lockdown would cause riots, looting and shootings.

Close your borders, sit it out and lose 5% of the population.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 28, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
He really is doing a pretty good job. Not because he is so bright but the rest of the world isn't any smarter. Now lets take Obama. He let most of our medical manufacturing go to China. Now we are short and have no control of it. Would you call that smart? It is not just us. The same thing has happened to where most of the world's medical supplies are made in China. Trump has being trying to do something about it. Maybe now he will get some help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 28, 2020, 04:48:48 PM
He really is doing a pretty good job. Not because he is so bright but the rest of the world isn't any smarter. Now lets take Obama. He let most of our medical manufacturing go to China. Now we are short and have no control of it. Would you call that smart? It is not just us. The same thing has happened to where most of the world's medical supplies are made in China. Trump has being trying to do something about it. Maybe now he will get some help.

So what's Trump going to do to stop transmission?

It's cure/vaccine (which doesn't exist yet), lockdown or herd immunity. I'm not aware of another option.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 28, 2020, 05:37:25 PM
Weekly informational and analytical program.
Presenter - Alexey Pushkov


I suggest you watch this program and learn a lot.

For those who speak Russian will be very easy.... or
if you don't speak Russian and her indoors to translate .......
and if you have not a Russian partner......
click the Transcript and let Google to Translate.......

I am sure you will enjoy it and learn a lot. :nod:


1:15 A week is waiting for the country - Vladimir Putin on new measures
14:02 Russia helps Italy - when EU brothers do not help
23:03 Where did the deadly virus come from? Alarms and Versions
32:04 Non-working week. What to do at home to withstand self-isolation? Psychological advice
37:50 The fateful plenum. How did Gorbachev become Secretary General? The pages of the story
48:20 Trump and the epidemic. How does it affect political life in the USA?
56:52 Quarantined stars - glamor in a pandemic

tiphat
:popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 06:05:21 PM
Trump is not going to lockdown the country.

He doesn’t grasp the subject. He isn’t bright enough. The top job isn’t really for a slum landlord, casino shark or reality TV star. It takes a thinking bloke to deal with a crisis such as this.


There is no American leader at any level calling for a nationwide lockdown. There is no American calling for a nationwide lockdown. It would be stupid to do so but I guess we're all a bunch of dumb phucks. We are a nation of 50 states(nations). It would be stupid to shut down the whole country when a couple of states have a problem. When Italy was on fire, did all of Europe shut down? UK wasn't even serious about the virus at the beginning of Italy's lockdown. Other countries can shut down their nation completely and destroy their economy but they're still going lose lives and they're still going to have to deal with the virus again. They may even lose more lives from suicides and rioting.

So what’s Trump going to do to stop transmission?


No country can stop transmission. Too many carriers running around undetected. All we can do is slow it down and be better prepared for the next outbreak.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 06:30:47 PM
Article

230 Years of Rights and Liberties Shredded: Why I Oppose The Lockdown


By Brandon Turbeville

Beware the lockdown: there is no disclaimer in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that they are null and void in case of terrorist attacks or viral outbreaks.


There's a lot of guys out there that talk about the problems a lockdown will bring but none of them is smart enough to offer an alternative solution to beat the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 28, 2020, 07:08:01 PM
He really is doing a pretty good job. Not because he is so bright but the rest of the world isn't any smarter. Now lets take Obama. He let most of our medical manufacturing go to China. Now we are short and have no control of it. Would you call that smart? It is not just us. The same thing has happened to where most of the world's medical supplies are made in China. Trump has being trying to do something about it. Maybe now he will get some help.

So what’s Trump going to do to stop transmission?

It’s cure/vaccine (which doesn’t exist yet), lockdown or herd immunity. I’m not aware of another option.

The biggest thing is running out medical supplies. He did not start soon enough to get ready. But it seems very few western countries did.

He is not a scientist. But he has started several test in the USA following up on a possible cure.  The big one that is most promising is in St Louis where they are testing a combo of drugs that French said work very well. The French test was small but claimed nearly a 100 per cent success rate. He has changed the law where people who are very serious can opt to try new treatments including that combo. He sent these drugs to New York if they want to try them.   

Trump also understand you can turn an economy off like a light switch but that does not mean you can turn it back on. The USA can be very hard to manage. We have 50 different states and each with a different health care system. So each state is managed by the governor of that state. So there is a wide range of health systems he has to work with. Here in Texas there is a fear that we are going to get locked down having nothing to do with the federal government. Houston is a big city and has a lot of cases. We have had very few deaths much better than the country average. Only 27 for all of Texas and we are half the size of all the UK in population.

There is a fear that people will come from New Orleans to Houston and overwhelm our system. You see on the 25th of February they had Marti Gra. Everyone drank, smoked and screwed for a week. Now they are having a problem.  Governor of that state and the mayor of the city should of stopped this. It is not possible for Trump to keep up with every event that is happening in every city.

The big hot spot we have is New York. They have nearly half the infections in the whole country. They did not shut down tourism early enough. This is a very liberal state and is very hard for Trump to manage. You should of heard the screaming when he shut down the Chinese from coming in California. It would been very hard for him to shut down tourism fighting the city mayor and the governor.  Now they constantly scream Trump is not doing enough. 

Now Florida is up set that too many New Yorkers are going to Florida and ruining their numbers and over flowing their hospitals. They do not want there health care system to prop up New York and then spread the disease all over the state. So Trump is considering quaranting off New York and the Mayor of the city of New York is complaining.

GM offered to make ventilators. Then they started wanting to rip the government off on the price and taking time. Trump ordered them to make ventilators and the courts will decided what is a fair price latter. Ford is starting to make ventilators they feel someone will buy them. Several other companies are making ventilators because we need so many. We need them in a few weeks or not at all.  We are looking needing more than additional 100,000.

Biden is claiming that Trump did not do enough early enough. There is some truth to this but back when this needed to be done Biden was spending all of his time supporting the impeachment of Trump not working on covid-19. I truly doubt if he been president that we would be in as good of shape as we are now. Trump did shut Foreign travel down to the USA. It would been better if it would been week or more earlier. I doubt if the Democrats would shut it down as soon as he did. You know they believe it racists not to let people into the country.
 
I hope this is a help to explain things here better with out trying to make this to pro-Trump propaganda. The Question we have to ask who would done a better job?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on March 28, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Good summary Texan  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 07:59:57 PM
The big one that is most promising is in St Louis where they are testing a combo of drugs that French said work very well. The French test was small but claimed nearly a 100 per cent success rate.


That drug combo is still disputed. During limited tests, the ones who got the combo drugs was ill with the virus a day and a half less than those who didn't get the drugs. It's not a cure but it's touted to limit the time one is sick.

In other news Scientists now detect 8 strains of the coronavirus running loose and there may be other strains out there they haven't detected yet.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/8-strains-coronavirus-circling-globe-182338255.html


Putin said with near certainty that Russia can defeat the virus in 2-3 months time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-comes-kremlin-010407610.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 28, 2020, 08:23:34 PM
The big one that is most promising is in St Louis where they are testing a combo of drugs that French said work very well. The French test was small but claimed nearly a 100 per cent success rate.


That drug combo is still disputed. During limited tests, the ones who got the combo drugs was ill with the virus a day and a half less than those who didn't get the drugs. It's not a cure but it's touted to limit the time one is sick.

In other news Scientists now detect 8 strains of the coronavirus running loose and there may be other strains out there they haven't detected yet.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/8-strains-coronavirus-circling-globe-182338255.html


Putin said with near certainty that Russia can defeat the virus in 2-3 months time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-comes-kremlin-010407610.html

Billy how that combo works is it make the cells in the lungs to change the shape of the receptors. The virus can not invade new cells with the new shape receptors but you still have to have your body kill the virus in existing cells in the lungs and in the blood. How far along you are in the when you start getting it makes a big difference. It can save undamaged lung material. It sounds pretty promising to me, even if does not shorten the length of time it takes to get over it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 28, 2020, 09:20:13 PM

Tex, as of today, WHO says there is no vaccine or cure available. There's still not enough information available on any drug or combos for anybody to claim something works.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus#tab=tab_1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 28, 2020, 10:37:13 PM
favipiravir being tested in Japan and showing promise.

https://bgr.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-treatment-favipiravir-avigan-drug/

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil)  is what test are under way in California. The combo is being study in St Louis USA, France, India and China.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/new-government-study-of-chloroquine-after-trump-comments

I wish I had all the articles available to be that I have read of the last few days but I can not find some of them. WHO want to discourage people from taking drugs they no nothing about. Some people have killed themselves talking chloroquine try to make it so they can not get the virus. In the wrong hands the drug is more dangerous than the disease. These of course are not ready for everyone yet. There is a lot of work going on that shows promise. A vaccine is being tested in Washington state that started on the 15 of April. It is only phase on of the trial but they hope to be at phase two by mid summer. A North Carolina company has just been granted 750,000 dollars for research in Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) by Trump. I also understand the interferon Alfa 2B is showing promise.  They are wanting to get that in Honduras as it is being researched in China. Another company is building the antibody that the body makes to kill the virus. They have made this and are testing it against the virus and its safety in animals. They should be ready for phase one human trails by mid summers. That is about as much as I know about cures so far.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on March 29, 2020, 04:58:21 AM
Every country with labs and research Universities are working on cures and treatments.
At least 2 I know of in Canada are now going to trials.

Some call it a race, some are sharing information with other research facilities
trying to find either a cure or treatment.

Unless someone gets lucky with existing drugs working.
this is likely 4-8 months away, even with everyone fast tracking it.
Normally it takes 14 to 24 months to come up with vaccine.

So most countries have to decide how they wish to approach this.
Most of Canada is on some version of a lockdown and many people not following the rules.
If experts are right, the peak is 2-4 weeks away, then flatten the curve.
After this, things slowly go back to normal, or a new normal, whatever that will look like.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 06:13:48 AM
Looks like many Russians living overseas have had enough of this Virus in the world and want to get back to the Motherland..

https://news.rambler.ru/politics/43921751-zaharova-obvinila-zapad-v-obolvanivanii-rossiyan/?utm_source=head&utm_campaign=self_promo&utm_medium=news&utm_content=news&h_sp=1

Interesting if you can translate it..

On of my friends in the Uk has a Russian wife , she is already moaning about having to line up for food and wasn't expecting this sort of thing in the UK.. :laugh:

But then she was also expecting to have a UK passport open it up and flight tickets are inside for travel all over the world.. cos everyone in the UK travels to New York, LA ,Paris every week.. or so many would believe  a long with living in a castle .. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 29, 2020, 06:15:55 AM

Tex, as of today, WHO says there is no vaccine or cure available. There's still not enough information available on any drug or combos for anybody to claim something works.



'Someone' has a VERY short memory as to Presidential 'pronouncements' on drugs.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 29, 2020, 09:10:25 AM


In the UK Registered Medical Doctors are controlled by the BMA .


One of my biz partners is a retired Surgeon. ( honestly, andrewfi ) He got an email from the BMA on Thursday, asking him to fill in a questionnaire as to what he'd like to do in the crisis..

He was a Gynaecologist and didn't know how to answer the question option re dealing with patients  :  'face to face' .. ?  ;)


He answered, truthfully,  'other' -  that he had been used to, "addressing the nether regions" and was sent an email by return  that he was ( once more)  a practising practitioner !..

I wonder what role he'll be given ....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 29, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
100,000-200,000 Americans could die - Dr Fauci


The coronavirus outbreak could kill 100,000 to 200,000 Americans, the government’s top infectious diseases expert warned on Sunday.

Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN’s State of the Union that millions would be infected by the virus.

Dr Fauci, a leading member of President Donald Trump’s coronavirus task force, added, however: “I don’t want to be held to that ... It’s such a moving target that you can so easily be wrong and mislead people.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52081389 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52081389)

15:33 ( UK Summer time )


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 29, 2020, 10:26:53 AM
We have gone parabolic and a long way to go before we flatten this exponential spread...

U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Hit 2,000 After Doubling in Two Days

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/03/29/u-s-coronavirus-deaths-hit-2000-after-doubling-in-two-days/

In the space of 48-hours the U.S. death toll from the Chinese cornonavirus pandemic passed 2,000 late Saturday, figures confirm. Of those fatalities, 672 have been counted in New York City alone.

Earlier this week, the death toll in the U.S. reached 1,000, though it took nearly a month for the amount of coronavirus-related deaths in the country to reach that high. This means that another 1,000 people died in a two-day reporting period in the country up to and including last night.

###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 29, 2020, 10:35:26 AM
Trump tweeted he would look at imposing quarantine/lockdown in NYC and surrounding.....

Now he has flip-flopped and said he won't. Blames advice from others on his decision.  (:)

The Cuomo bloke came on TV today he "didn't understand" what a quarantine was, while doing his best mumbling gangster impression.

Trump finally asked people to stay home if possible, if they dont mind. Boris tried that and it didn't work, everyone carried on as normal.

Lockdown will have to come for NY and any epicentres.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 10:48:07 AM
favipiravir being tested in Japan and showing promise.

https://bgr.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-treatment-favipiravir-avigan-drug/

Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil)  is what test are under way in California. The combo is being study in St Louis USA, France, India and China.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/new-government-study-of-chloroquine-after-trump-comments

I wish I had all the articles available to be that I have read of the last few days but I can not find some of them. WHO want to discourage people from taking drugs they no nothing about. Some people have killed themselves talking chloroquine try to make it so they can not get the virus. In the wrong hands the drug is more dangerous than the disease. These of course are not ready for everyone yet. There is a lot of work going on that shows promise. A vaccine is being tested in Washington state that started on the 15 of April. It is only phase on of the trial but they hope to be at phase two by mid summer. A North Carolina company has just been granted 750,000 dollars for research in Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) by Trump. I also understand the interferon Alfa 2B is showing promise.  They are wanting to get that in Honduras as it is being researched in China. Another company is building the antibody that the body makes to kill the virus. They have made this and are testing it against the virus and its safety in animals. They should be ready for phase one human trails by mid summers. That is about as much as I know about cures so far.

Warp drive being tested in Area 51.. we may all be able to bugger off to another planet soon, before a vaccine is found.. :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 29, 2020, 10:53:22 AM
COVID-19: Martial Law, Digital Currency and World Government


COVID-19 is being used to usher in everything – even suggestions of a World Government.

I certainly don’t claim to be a financial wizard. In fact, at best, I have a rudimentary understanding of how the convoluted funny money economy works. However, you don’t need to fully comprehend the ins-and-outs of rigged monetary system to understand we’re in for big trouble and the coronavirus “pandemic” is not only accelerating the fall but will make the outcome far, far worse.

For more detail on the financial end of this disaster, read Mike Whitney’s Why Washington’s COVID-19 Relief Package Must Be Stopped!

No chance, however. As I write this, Congress passed a pork-laden“stimulus” bill.

If we can believe numbers put out by the CDC, as of Friday, March 27 there were 1,246 deaths in the US attributed to the virus. Compare this with the 1968 H3N2 “Hong Kong Flu.” It reportedly killed 100,000 people in the US and around a million around the world.

At the time, the response was not to lock down the country and destroy the livelihood of millions of Americans and usher in the severe violations of the Constitution we are now witnessing.

Short of COVID-19 numbers shooting into the stratosphere in the long run, the death rate will be nowhere near those of the H3N2 pandemic. After the virus is put down by warm temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere, jobless and impoverished Americans will scratch their heads in wonderment at the overreaction by government.

Back in 1968, the US economy was doing fairly well. It was the economic powerhouse of the world. The economy began the slow process of engineered deterioration after the so-called “Nixon shock” imposed wage and price freezes in response to Federal Reserve manufactured inflation and the direct international convertibility of the dollar to gold in 1971.

10% inflation in the 1970s was “the result of the honest mistakes of a well-meaning central bank (sic),” according to the Fed.

The former Fed boss, Ben Bernanke, said in 2002 “honest mistakes” were also responsible for the stock market crash in 1929 and the Great Depression that followed (see Jerry Mazza’s How the FED engineered the Great Depression; for historical comparison of the current economic trauma prior to COVID-19, see Doug Casey: Comparing the 1930s and Today).

Is the current corporate propaganda media-generated hysteria over what appears thus far to be a normal influenza virus happenstance?

I argue the pandemic was planned or conveniently exploited, if not beforehand then in its early stage as it swept China. I am convinced the virus was arranged or exploited to make an excuse for a coming and unavoidable Greater Depression, a historically unmatched depression as a direct result of the fraud, manipulation, and gambling debts of the financial class. Blame for the pinpricks deflating absurdly enlarged and distorted asset bubbles horrendously crashing the economy will be laid at President Donald Trump’s door.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/covid-19-martial-law-digital-currency-world-government/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 11:02:09 AM
COVID-19: Martial Law, Digital Currency and World Government


COVID-19 is being used to usher in everything – even suggestions of a World Government.

I certainly don’t claim to be a financial wizard. In fact, at best, I have a rudimentary understanding of how the convoluted funny money economy works. However, you don’t need to fully comprehend the ins-and-outs of rigged monetary system to understand we’re in for big trouble and the coronavirus “pandemic” is not only accelerating the fall but will make the outcome far, far worse.

For more detail on the financial end of this disaster, read Mike Whitney’s Why Washington’s COVID-19 Relief Package Must Be Stopped!

No chance, however. As I write this, Congress passed a pork-laden“stimulus” bill.

If we can believe numbers put out by the CDC, as of Friday, March 27 there were 1,246 deaths in the US attributed to the virus. Compare this with the 1968 H3N2 “Hong Kong Flu.” It reportedly killed 100,000 people in the US and around a million around th

At the time, the response was not to lock down the country and destroy the livelihood of millions of Americans and usher in the severe violations of the Constitution we are now witnessing.

Short of COVID-19 numbers shooting into the stratosphere in the long run, the death rate will be nowhere near those of the H3N2 pandemic. After the virus is put down by warm temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere, jobless and impoverished Americans will scratch their heads in wonderment at the overreaction by government.

Back in 1968, the US economy was doing fairly well. It was the economic powerhouse of the world. The economy began the slow process of engineered deterioration after the so-called “Nixon shock” imposed wage and price freezes in response to Federal Reserve manufactured inflation and the direct international convertibility of the dollar to gold in 1971.

10% inflation in the 1970s was “the result of the honest mistakes of a well-meaning central bank (sic),” according to the Fed.

The former Fed boss, Ben Bernanke, said in 2002 “honest mistakes” were also responsible for the stock market crash in 1929 and the Great Depression that followed (see Jerry Mazza’s How the FED engineered the Great Depression; for historical comparison of the current economic trauma prior to COVID-19, see Doug Casey: Comparing the 1930s and Today).

Is the current corporate propaganda media-generated hysteria over what appears thus far to be a normal influenza virus happenstance?

I argue the pandemic was planned or conveniently exploited, if not beforehand then in its early stage as it swept China. I am convinced the virus was arranged or exploited to make an excuse for a coming and unavoidable Greater Depression, a historically unmatched depression as a direct result of the fraud, manipulation, and gambling debts of the financial class. Blame for the pinpricks deflating absurdly enlarged and distorted asset bubbles horrendously crashing the economy will be laid at President Donald Trump’s door.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/covid-19-martial-law-digital-currency-world-government/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=

Probably correct..cant trust anyone today..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 29, 2020, 11:23:31 AM
Confederate, the article you quoted is certainly interesting and worth pondering. I suspect while some is hyperbole there is an underlying truth in there. Under the guise or smokescreen of Wuhan Virus, it would be a hell of a way to get rid of trillions of government debts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 11:41:50 AM
Trump tweeted he would look at imposing quarantine/lockdown in NYC and surrounding.....

Now he has flip-flopped and said he won't. Blames advice from others on his decision.  (:)


Trump didn't flip flop. He did exactly what he said he was going to do and that is take a look at quarantining NY and other states.

Other states have successfully blocked New Yorkers who are failing to abide by a stay at home order from entering their states which means Trump doesn't need to take action.

I argue the pandemic was planned or conveniently exploited, if not beforehand then in its early stage as it swept China. I am convinced the virus was arranged or exploited to make an excuse for a coming and unavoidable Greater Depression, a historically unmatched depression as a direct result of the fraud, manipulation, and gambling debts of the financial class. Blame for the pinpricks deflating absurdly enlarged and distorted asset bubbles horrendously crashing the economy will be laid at President Donald Trump’s door.


Did the virus agree with the plan? The virus is going to hurt some countries more than others. Those who celebrate the pandemic may be the first ones buried.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 12:29:46 PM
One of my friends in Moscow posted this.. At the same time some of my wife friends have pictures of hundreds of military trucks heading to Moscow.. a full scale lock down is coming.. but at the end of the day it's the only way..


"Moscow has announced a citywide lockdown beginning tomorrow, confining residents of the city of nearly 12 million people to their homes to slow the spread of the coronavirus. The restrictions are some of the most severe in the Russian capital’s history and are comparable to steps taken in cities in Italy and China to slow the pandemic.
As of Monday, residents will not be allowed to leave their homes except to seek medical care, to travel to work if they provide essential services, to go to the nearest store or chemist, or to walk pets no further than 100 metres from their home.
The restrictions would not limit movement in and out of Moscow on personal cars, the statement read, emphasising that Russians could still enter or exit the capital.
Similar restrictions are expected in Moscow region, where another 7 million live.
It was not immediately clear if police or military would be deployed on the streets to enforce the ban. The statement referred to a “smart system of control,” indicating that the city may use facial recognition on cameras or use telephone geolocation data in order to track the movements of people around the city.
“The extremely negative turn of events that we have seen in the largest cities of Europe and the United States have caused great concern for the life and health of our citizens,” read a statement on the personal website of Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin.
Russia has identified 1,534 cases of coronavirus so far. Eight deaths have been attributed to the virus. Vladimir Putin has announced a national holiday for the coming week but stopped short of declaring a national state of emergency.
Sobyanin also said that because of an expected spike in job losses, the city would disburse 19,500 roubles (£200) per month in unemployment."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 29, 2020, 01:21:06 PM
But I expect you'll be still be able to take Communion in a R.Othodox Church ...'coz the Wine and the Lord will not allow the virus to infect you ....

YUP, some Orthodox Priests and believers insist on this ... ( not just Russia )  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 29, 2020, 01:39:50 PM
Other states have successfully blocked New Yorkers who are failing to abide by a stay at home order from entering their states

The States are not so united now, eh?

However, staying in your state is not enough. Unless you're going to fence in NY and let it happen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 29, 2020, 02:08:37 PM


In the UK Registered Medical Doctors are controlled by the BMA .


One of my biz partners is a retired Surgeon. ( honestly, andrewfi ) He got an email from the BMA on Thursday, asking him to fill in a questionnaire as to what he'd like to do in the crisis..

He was a Gynaecologist and didn't know how to answer the question option re dealing with patients  :  'face to face' .. ?  ;)


He answered, truthfully,  'other' -  that he had been used to, "addressing the nether regions" and was sent an email by return  that he was ( once more)  a practising practitioner !..

I wonder what role he'll be given ....

What no-one spotted my HOWLER

I meant the GMC - not BMA ..He's registered as an 'SR' .. ( Special Register) "This doctor has been restored to the register as part of the UK government’s response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 03:20:03 PM
The States are not so united now, eh?


Let's not be so dramatic. States aren't going to war against each other. New Yorkers do not have a constitutional right to kill others and infect the rest of the nation, especially if their own governor gave them an order to stay at home. I didn't criticize the EU when EU members closed their borders. It's the smart thing to do keeping people in hot areas from leaving to making other areas hot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 29, 2020, 03:21:26 PM
Curious are Prince Charles and BoJo on ventilators yet?


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 29, 2020, 03:41:14 PM
So, there is actually a cure which IS working.

This Doctor posted the cure on FB and after 100K people saw his video Nazi Zuckerberg deleted his post (Zuck is NWO and they don’t want you to get well!).

The French study showed DRAMATIC improvement in patients taking Z pac in conjunction with Hydroxychloroquin.

Search for HonestObgyn on Facebook and watch his posted videos.

Dramatic improvements achieved in 6 days.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 03:46:46 PM
Curious are Prince Charles and BoJo on ventilators yet?


###

Prince Charles has been on a ventilator for about 30 years.. :laugh:  So its just a normal day for him..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 29, 2020, 04:04:13 PM
So, there is actually a cure which IS working.

This Doctor posted the cure on FB and after 100K people saw his video Nazi Zuckerberg deleted his post (Zuck is NWO and they don’t want you to get well!).

The French study showed DRAMATIC improvement in patients taking Z pac in conjunction with Hydroxychloroquin.

Search for HonestObgyn on Facebook and watch his posted videos.

Dramatic improvements achieved in 6 days.

A CURE for CV.

Doctor has treated 699 patients and has a 100% cure rate.


https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-z-pak-update/



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 04:06:46 PM
I think what most people will learn after this virus is to save some money.. do not live hand to mouth like so many do, do not have so much credit any thing can happen any single day!

There is a virus / epidemic every 100-200 years what wipes thousands out and there has been for thousands of years!

Anyone alive today will one day look back and speak about the great virus of 2020..

It is the same for meteor strikes every 200-500 years a big one hits the planet 120 years ago Siberia had a air burst took out 1000's of acres lucky it wasn't so populated..

Back in the 15th Century there was a big impact that caused the so called dark ages.. same thing now would of wiped out half of Europe..


It is going to happen again some time just like another virus..

You should be ready for every thing! Cos when an impact comes there ain't going to be no banks left to bail you out..

Take nothing in life for granted I always say..







Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 29, 2020, 04:42:58 PM
I think what most people will learn after this virus is to save some money.. do not live hand to mouth like so many do, do not have so much credit any thing can happen any single day!

Some of us already live like that.

I avoid credit. I’m one of those I like to have six months of living expenses separate in the bank aside from savings or anything else. You never know what might happen. Disease, pestilence, illness, a death, break a leg, heart attack, you never know. Saving some money is cheaper than paying insurance.

Just so you can say "If a wheel falls off, there’s six months living expenses in that account".

It has genuinely surprised me how businesses here are crying out for government aid after just a week. If you are trading so close to the bone you don’t really have a business.

Russians have been in hard times before, so saving a few quid for a rainy day isn’t an usual thing for them. Many British people live hand to mouth on credit. They live beyond their means. The first blip and they look to the government to bail them out. Why so many vote Labour I suppose......

This is the problem Trump has with putting a lockdown on America. Americans live almost entirely on credit and it is a very fragile House of Cards for the average household of Joe Sixpack.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 29, 2020, 05:12:25 PM
I think what most people will learn after this virus is to save some money.. do not live hand to mouth like so many do, do not have so much credit any thing can happen any single day!

Some of us already live like that.

I avoid credit. I’m one of those I like to have six months of living expenses separate in the bank aside from savings or anything else. You never know what might happen. Disease, pestilence, illness, a death, break a leg, heart attack, you never know. Saving some money is cheaper than paying insurance.

Just so you can say "If a wheel falls off, there’s six months living expenses in that account".

It has genuinely surprised me how businesses here are crying out for government aid after just a week. If you are trading so close to the bone you don’t really have a business.

Russians have been in hard times before, so saving a few quid for a rainy day isn’t an usual thing for them. Many British people live hand to mouth on credit. They live beyond their means. The first blip and they look to the government to bail them out. Why so many vote Labour I suppose......

This is the problem Trump has with putting a lockdown on America. Americans live almost entirely on credit and it is a very fragile House of Cards for the average household of Joe Sixpack.

I lived hand to mouth in my tenting days and then in my bedsit days..

Im a totally credit less person buy and own everything.. only credit we have is for a house for 3 years .. I don't want to be slave for 40 years..I thought slavery was abolished but in reality it still continues..

Im also ready to pack my bags at any time , head for the hills and live out in the forest if that time should arrive,,  :laugh::laugh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 29, 2020, 05:23:31 PM
COVID-19: Martial Law, Digital Currency and World Government


COVID-19 is being used to usher in everything – even suggestions of a World Government.

I certainly don’t claim to be a financial wizard. In fact, at best, I have a rudimentary understanding of how the convoluted funny money economy works. However, you don’t need to fully comprehend the ins-and-outs of rigged monetary system to understand we’re in for big trouble and the coronavirus “pandemic” is not only accelerating the fall but will make the outcome far, far worse.

For more detail on the financial end of this disaster, read Mike Whitney’s Why Washington’s COVID-19 Relief Package Must Be Stopped!

No chance, however. As I write this, Congress passed a pork-laden“stimulus” bill.

If we can believe numbers put out by the CDC, as of Friday, March 27 there were 1,246 deaths in the US attributed to the virus. Compare this with the 1968 H3N2 “Hong Kong Flu.” It reportedly killed 100,000 people in the US and around a million around the world.

At the time, the response was not to lock down the country and destroy the livelihood of millions of Americans and usher in the severe violations of the Constitution we are now witnessing.

Short of COVID-19 numbers shooting into the stratosphere in the long run, the death rate will be nowhere near those of the H3N2 pandemic. After the virus is put down by warm temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere, jobless and impoverished Americans will scratch their heads in wonderment at the overreaction by government.

Back in 1968, the US economy was doing fairly well. It was the economic powerhouse of the world. The economy began the slow process of engineered deterioration after the so-called “Nixon shock” imposed wage and price freezes in response to Federal Reserve manufactured inflation and the direct international convertibility of the dollar to gold in 1971.

10% inflation in the 1970s was “the result of the honest mistakes of a well-meaning central bank (sic),” according to the Fed.

The former Fed boss, Ben Bernanke, said in 2002 “honest mistakes” were also responsible for the stock market crash in 1929 and the Great Depression that followed (see Jerry Mazza’s How the FED engineered the Great Depression; for historical comparison of the current economic trauma prior to COVID-19, see Doug Casey: Comparing the 1930s and Today).

Is the current corporate propaganda media-generated hysteria over what appears thus far to be a normal influenza virus happenstance?

I argue the pandemic was planned or conveniently exploited, if not beforehand then in its early stage as it swept China. I am convinced the virus was arranged or exploited to make an excuse for a coming and unavoidable Greater Depression, a historically unmatched depression as a direct result of the fraud, manipulation, and gambling debts of the financial class. Blame for the pinpricks deflating absurdly enlarged and distorted asset bubbles horrendously crashing the economy will be laid at President Donald Trump’s door.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/covid-19-martial-law-digital-currency-world-government/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=

Confed, Well done for the above post. but some important Links to evidence in the text are missing as also the following text:

(https://thefreedomarticles.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/covid-19-world-government.jpg)

Moreover, the crash and its enforced misery—only now beginning to gain fatal momentum—will be used by the ruling elite to demand several drastic “reforms,” beginning with a call for a centralized world government. This globalist scheme, long in the planning, will be rolled out “temporarily” to confront the virus.

Gordon Brown calls for global government to tackle coronavirus (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/26/gordon-brown-calls-for-global-government-to-tackle-coronavirus)

Prior to Gordon Brown’s demand, bankers and establishment economists began a heightened call for “a digital alternative to paper money” to stop the spread of the virus and “helping improve financial inclusion by addressing the needs of millions of Americans that remain unbanked, according to the FDIC (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/why-covid-19-stimulus-should-incorporate-digital-dollars-2020-03-25)

In January, the elite at Davos was way ahead of the curve on the effort to dispose of paper money and replace it with a digital financial and societal control mechanism.

“Users of the U.S. dollar are ‘underserved by an analogue currency in a digital world,’ Christopher Giancarlo, former chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), said during an event in Davos,” CNBC reported.

See more here: Why COVID-19 Stimulus Should Incorporate Digital Dollars (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/why-covid-19-stimulus-should-incorporate-digital-dollars-2020-03-25)

In my opinion the corona virus Pandemic is a global plan, used as cover by the Central Banksters, owners of the Federal Reserve and the (hidden oligarchy that prints money out of thin air) to bring in the New World Order. with a new digital financial system. see Agenda ID2020 (https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-causes-effects-real-danger-agenda-id2020/5706153) and to wipe out the more of 25 Trillion Dollars Debt buble they have created!

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 29, 2020, 05:44:26 PM
Curious are Prince Charles and BoJo on ventilators yet?


###

Prince Charles has been on a ventilator for about 30 years.. :laugh:  So its just a normal day for him..

Damnation SB I am getting over a Rhinovirus infection ( common cold) and I laughed so danged hard I almost coughed up two lungs...  Not looking forward to Chuck inheriting the Crown then?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 29, 2020, 05:49:14 PM
Bloody Elll...

Fauci: U.S. Could Have 100k to 200k Deaths from Coronavirus

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/03/29/fauci-u-s-could-have-100k-to-200k-deaths-from-coronavirus/

Looks like Dr. Fauci looked at current trends and gave the Whitehouse a corrective interview:

2 Million Cases, 200,000 Deaths, very serious and sober to say the least...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 06:35:33 PM
So, there is actually a cure which IS working.

This Doctor posted the cure on FB and after 100K people saw his video Nazi Zuckerberg deleted his post (Zuck is NWO and they don’t want you to get well!).

The French study showed DRAMATIC improvement in patients taking Z pac in conjunction with Hydroxychloroquin.

Search for HonestObgyn on Facebook and watch his posted videos.

Dramatic improvements achieved in 6 days.

That combo of drugs was talked about two weeks ago. WHO still has not approved it yet and may never approve it. Everybody here will be bombarded with articles from every nation about vaccines and treatments. There has never been a vaccine or treatment found for coronaviruses, period. Maybe they'll settle for something less than a full treatment or cure if something works on a small percentage of people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 29, 2020, 07:23:21 PM
So, there is actually a cure which IS working.

This Doctor posted the cure on FB and after 100K people saw his video Nazi Zuckerberg deleted his post (Zuck is NWO and they don’t want you to get well!).

The French study showed DRAMATIC improvement in patients taking Z pac in conjunction with Hydroxychloroquin.

Search for HonestObgyn on Facebook and watch his posted videos.

Dramatic improvements achieved in 6 days.

That combo of drugs was talked about two weeks ago. WHO still has not approved it yet and may never approve it. Everybody here will be bombarded with articles from every nation about vaccines and treatments. There has never been a vaccine or treatment found for coronaviruses, period. Maybe they'll settle for something less than a full treatment or cure if something works on a small percentage of people.

Perhaps you missed President Trumps press conference BillyB.

Those two drugs have been approved for trial use in the USA and they are being used right now on patients in New York who want them. Z pak is known as Azithromycin and should be used together with Hydroxychloroquin for maximum benefit.


HOME » FEATURED
Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (z-pak) are being tested on 1,100 coronavirus patients in New York, U.S. President Trump says


https://techstartups.com/2020/03/29/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-z-pak-are-being-tested-on-1100-coronavirus-patients-in-new-york-u-s-president-trump-says/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 08:11:10 PM

Perhaps you missed President Trumps press conference BillyB.


Perhaps you missed all of his conferences and news around the world. Doctors everywhere is trying everything. They're hoping to find something that works with the virus. Many claims have been made from doctors around the world. The only fact that we have now is there's never been a cure or treatment discovered for any coronavirus. But if it makes you happy that a cure is days or weeks away, believe whatever you want to give yourself peace of mind. This article should make you very happy. China has announce they discovered bear bile as the cure for the coronavirus.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-promotes-bear-bile-as-coronavirus-cure

Here's the full list of China Health Commission recommended products to cure and treat the coronavirus. I'm sure all their products are made in China. Go buy it in bulk and you can be America's snake oil salesman.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/health/2020-03/04/c_1125661175.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 29, 2020, 09:51:30 PM
No Billy Bob, you’re the guy who applauded China’s totalitarian lock down but you refuse to read or believe a highly qualified French Doctor who states that hydroxychloroquin taken with Z pak killed Coronavirus on all but an 86 year old who was already in advanced stages of the disease.

The intelligent people on this forum who can read and comprehend certain words know that those two medications are not “snake oil”.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 29, 2020, 10:31:04 PM
The intelligent people on this forum who can read and comprehend certain words know that those two medications are not “snake oil”.


Doctors around the world aren't qualified to test medicines but they have been given freedom to experiment. They are experimenting with very powerful and very dangerous drugs that can actually harm the patients if not kill them. There is no proven study to tell doctors if hydroxychloroquine works and if it does work, what dosage to use. The drugs may give the patient a heart attack but that's okay! We'll just blame the death on coronavirus instead of malpractice. Lets see if the intelligent people comprehend the below article.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-28/risks-of-using-malaria-drugs-off-label-to-treat-covid-19

Another problem is there is now a shortage of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine so the people that really need it have a hard time finding it.

Dr. Fauci in the video says there's no magic drug. He says there is no proven safe and effective drug for the coronavirus

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/health/chloroquine-hydroxycholoroquine-drugs-explained/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 30, 2020, 02:34:53 AM
Billy,
This one is not a scam.

Taiwan doctors come to an agreement that hydroxychloroquine, a quinoline medicine used to treat or prevent malaria, works on Wuhan virus patients at their early stage of this disease.

An old Swiss woman at her 90 years age has recovered from lung attack by Wuhan virus, after having been treated by this malaria drug.

Hydroxychloroquine is now a generic drug.  Any one can produce it without paying royalty fee.

Doctor prescription is mandatory.  Do not buy it yourself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 30, 2020, 02:50:40 AM
FFS

"Trump touted hydroxychloroquine as a cure for Covid-19. Don't believe the hype
The anti-malaria drug could be ‘one of the biggest game-changers in the history of medicine’, Trump claimed, but there is no magic cure"



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/coronavirus-cure-fact-check-hydroxychloroquine-trump (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/coronavirus-cure-fact-check-hydroxychloroquine-trump)


"What does the evidence show?
The French study followed work by Chinese researchers which suggested that hydroxychloroquine can slow infections from Sars-CoV-2, the virus behind Covid-19, by blocking it from entering cells in the body. But more recent, albeit small-scale, research from China has shown that patients who were treated with the drugs fought off coronavirus no more quickly than those who didn’t get it. Indeed, one patient given hydroxychloroquine severely worsened in condition while four patients on the medicine developed signs of liver damage and experienced diarrhoea."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 30, 2020, 03:12:13 AM
Imagine your are an expat and it was time to renew your passport ..  then the agency the govt uses announces "We'll be closing down, indefinitely from 31st March 2020, due to the virus situation "


Surely, such services are deemed essential ?


Out of date passports aren't much use in many nations

http://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1156630-urgent-notice-outstanding-uk-passport-collections-from-vfs
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 30, 2020, 08:21:49 AM
Anyone know how Chicago is going with the virus? Just there is some little asshole there I have been hunting down for a year now posting sex links to my web sites day after day .. I find the little twat soon enough but Im hoping the virus will kill him off before I get to him!! :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 30, 2020, 08:46:59 AM
A 'Trampu'-like DUH moment from the Red Bull Motor racing program


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52091905 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52091905)



Red Bull's Helmut Marko told team's drivers to become infected



"Let's put it this way: it has not been well received," Marko said.


WHAT a 'surprise'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2020, 12:53:59 PM
Billy,
This one is not a scam.

Taiwan doctors come to an agreement that hydroxychloroquine, a quinoline medicine used to treat or prevent malaria, works on Wuhan virus patients at their early stage of this disease.

An old Swiss woman at her 90 years age has recovered from lung attack by Wuhan virus, after having been treated by this malaria drug.


I read a story where an American said he recovered a day after he received the combo drugs. American medical personnel who gave it to him was hesitant to give credit to the drugs citing that he could've recovered on his own and it's near impossible for the drugs to work within 24 hrs. We are going to be bombarded with stories from every nation in every language about miracle drugs. It's not as quick and easy to announce a cure or treatment as people think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 30, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Anyone know how Chicago is going with the virus? Just there is some little asshole there I have been hunting down for a year now posting sex links to my web sites day after day .. I find the little twat soon enough but Im hoping the virus will kill him off before I get to him!! :laugh:

Chicago has seen some cases, but not in the magnitude as New York City area, New Orleans, Seattle, and other major city areas.  The mayor has been critical of not getting enough equipment to address the potential spike in cases.  Since the south side is among the highest murder rate, hopefully, the virus will wipe out all of those scum off the face of the earth.   :chuckle: >:( :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 30, 2020, 04:22:42 PM
Quote
So what are the differences between the new coronavirus and the flu? For starters, there is no vaccine for COVID-19, and one will likely take at least a year to develop and to get one to market. And, unlike with influenza viruses for which there are several vaccines, humans have not built up an immunity over multiple generations. What’s worse, doctors fear the virus will mutate.

Quote
Another reason not to compare the two viruses: Influenza has likely been around for more than 2,000 years. “The flu has been with us since the birth of modern medicine,” said Adalja. Scientists say the “novel influenza A viruses” in humans lead to a pandemic approximately once every 40 years. But, again, flu vaccines exist.

Quote
“But it doesn’t seem like there is cross-immunity with this coronavirus as there are with the other coronaviruses,” he added. In other words, the natural defense systems in our body that help us ward off flu are unlikely to apply here.

Luis Ostrosky, a member of the Infectious Diseases Society of America, said humans have a “herd immunity” to flu. “When there are enough people in the community who are immune, it protects people who are not immune,” he said. That is the case with flu, but not with COVID-19. Ostrosky said this is especially critical when there are no vaccines or therapeutic treatments for a virus.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-vs-the-flu-its-just-like-other-viruses-and-we-should-go-about-our-normal-business-right-wrong-heres-why-2020-03-09

T-W-A-T was not cut out?   :chuckle:
By the time that you develop a vaccine, it could morph into something else.   ??? :duh: :scared0005: :evilgrin0002:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/men-are-dying-from-coronavirus-at-higher-rates-than-women-scientists-best-ideas-as-to-why/ar-BB11U0x4

Nature's way of balancing the sex population.  You try to get more male babies and I will try to weed them out.   (:) :( :nod:

Quote
The Church of the Holy Sepulchre, believed by pilgrims to be the site of Jesus' tomb in Jerusalem's Old City, closed its doors for the first time since the Black Plague, according to the keeper of the keys to the now-locked church.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/coronavirus-israel-jerusalem-holy-sites

Jesus has officially abandoned you.   (:) :scared0005: :snivel:

This is the Y2K disaster, 9/11, and subprime meltdown all rolled into one.  You must play by the rules of Biology, not by any other subjects in school. :P :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 30, 2020, 04:44:08 PM
Anyone know how Chicago is going with the virus? Just there is some little asshole there I have been hunting down for a year now posting sex links to my web sites day after day .. I find the little twat soon enough but Im hoping the virus will kill him off before I get to him!! :laugh:

Chicago has seen some cases, but not in the magnitude as New York City area, New Orleans, Seattle, and other major city areas.  The mayor has been critical of not getting enough equipment to address the potential spike in cases.  Since the south side is among the highest murder rate, hopefully, the virus will wipe out all of those scum off the face of the earth.   :chuckle: >:( :evilgrin0002:

https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/covid--cases-in-missouri-top-illinois-cases-now-more/article_a45a4d1d-22b7-5a90-b709-7ef43180c7ec.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2020, 08:01:17 PM

In today's briefing Trump said our production of PPE and other medical supplies is close to meeting demand and he will soon send supplies to Italy and other European nations. I suspect Africa and South America will be having outbreaks after ours and will be needing help too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2020, 08:52:34 PM
A medical group that recommended malaria drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine is reversing their recommendation

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/trending/coronavirus-live-updates-us-cases-soar-past-142000-including-more-than-2500-deaths/TGHU7IUMNVBE7DJMOK2PILL7GQ/

 Army Capt. Douglas Linn Hickok, a physician assistant, is the first American soldier to die of the virus.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/new-jersey-national-guard-member-is-first-coronavirus-death-in-the-military-1.624269
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 31, 2020, 02:10:24 AM
A medical group that recommended malaria drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine is reversing their recommendation

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/trending/coronavirus-live-updates-us-cases-soar-past-142000-including-more-than-2500-deaths/TGHU7IUMNVBE7DJMOK2PILL7GQ/

 Army Capt. Douglas Linn Hickok, a physician assistant, is the first American soldier to die of the virus.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/new-jersey-national-guard-member-is-first-coronavirus-death-in-the-military-1.624269

So many bad news today!!!

Don't let go ChiNazi!!! They must pay!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 31, 2020, 03:45:51 AM
There is going to be one hell of a lot of divorces after this.. many people will come to understand that their husband/wife 's time has come to an end after being shacked up for 3 months solid.. :laugh:

But I saw in the news here , not sure if it is true that they are going to ban divorces this year in Russia.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on March 31, 2020, 04:49:42 AM
There is going to be one hell of a lot of divorces after this.. many people will come to understand that their husband/wife 's time has come to an end after being shacked up for 3 months solid.. :laugh:

But I saw in the news here , not sure if it is true that they are going to ban divorces this year in Russia.. :laugh:

There are of course other ways:-


Husband charged with first murder in coronavirus lockdown after wife's body found, they didn't last a week of lock down before he took action.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/husband-charged-first-murder-coronavirus-21781045

Sad!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 31, 2020, 05:19:21 AM
There is going to be one hell of a lot of divorces after this.. many people will come to understand that their husband/wife 's time has come to an end after being shacked up for 3 months solid.. :laugh:

But I saw in the news here , not sure if it is true that they are going to ban divorces this year in Russia.. :laugh:

There are of course other ways:-


Husband charged with first murder in coronavirus lockdown after wife's body found, they didn't last a week of lock down before he took action.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/husband-charged-first-murder-coronavirus-21781045

Sad!

I do not watch Emerdale or any of that shit.. but when I visit the parents they have it on all bloody day and I noticed in these soaps all they do is argue.. they go from one household to the next arguing for the full length of the program , I cannot imagine living like they do in the soaps but I guess lots do..I expect lots of people live in a mad house..



And Im sure there will be a few more dead husbands or dead wives to come yet..

Of course it will not effect this lot.. its just a normal day for them..


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on March 31, 2020, 05:25:52 AM
There is going to be one hell of a lot of divorces after this.. many people will come to understand that their husband/wife 's time has come to an end after being shacked up for 3 months solid.. :laugh:

But I saw in the news here , not sure if it is true that they are going to ban divorces this year in Russia.. :laugh:

There are of course other ways:-


Husband charged with first murder in coronavirus lockdown after wife's body found, they didn't last a week of lock down before he took action.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/husband-charged-first-murder-coronavirus-21781045

Sad!

I do not watch Emerdale or any of that shit.. but when I visit the parents they have it on all bloody day and I noticed in these soaps all they do is argue.. they go from one household to the next arguing for the full length of the program , I cannot imagine living like they do in the soaps but I guess lots do..I expect lots of people live in a mad house..



And Im sure there will be a few more dead husbands or dead wives to come yet..

Of course it will not effect this lot.. its just a normal day for them..


Yes,like you I don't watch them either, don't mind a bit of Corrie as there is some good humour in it, but I remember watching a bit of Eastenders when it first started years ago, it was 30 minutes of arguments, never watched it since.  :sick0012:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 31, 2020, 05:31:39 AM
‘Happily surprised’? Trump says Russia sent US
a very large’ aid package to combat Covid-19


31 Mar, 2020 03:35 / Updated 5 hours ago

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.03/l/5e82b83d203027166037a372.jpg)

L) US President Donald Trump; ................(R) Russian servicemen load medical equipment and ......................... disinfection vehicles into cargo planes bound for Italy.

US President Donald Trump has praised Moscow for sending a ‘very large planeload of things’ to help fight the spread of the coronavirus and treat sickened patients, noting that China and other nations had also chipped in.

"We’ve had great relationships with a lot of countries," the president told reporters at his daily Covid-19 briefing on Monday, adding: "China sent us some stuff, which was terrific. Russia sent us a very, very large planeload of things, medical equipment, which was very nice."

Other countries sent us things that I was
very  surprised at, very happily surprised.

Trump did not specify what kind of aid Moscow or Beijing had provided, however, and failed to name any of the "other countries" that had also sent supplies.

The comment was somewhat puzzling, given that Russian officials have yet to announce any such aid shipment to the US, and a State Department email recently sent to American diplomats stationed in Europe in search of supplies - obtained by Foreign Policy magazine last week - explicitly ruled out Russia, stressing that the request applied to countries hosting US embassies "minus Moscow."

 :nod: :nod: ;D

https://www.rt.com/usa/484536-trump-russia-aid-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 31, 2020, 07:07:15 AM
What has become clear is the CCP is our true enemy in this entire Covid19 fiasco... Systematically using predatory capitalism to bankrupt USA meds and PPE suppliers with corrupt Dems and GOPe  bought off by lobbyist offshoring USA industries... Clearly that fuster cluck will be corrected.

Hopefully sane minds will work to end Russian sanctions and normalize relations... I noticed name patches on ISS astronauts in both English and Russian ... If we can cooperate in space perhaps we can on earth as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 31, 2020, 07:54:32 AM


I do not watch Emerdale or any of that shit.. but when I visit the parents they have it on all bloody day and I noticed in these soaps all they do is argue.. they go from one household to the next arguing for the full length of the program , I cannot imagine living like they do in the soaps but I guess lots do..I expect lots of people live in a mad house..

..In Russia they have what I call 'ругаться TV '...  A bit like the now sunk 'Jeremy Kyle Show' on on First channel AND Rossiya ( Malakhov moved from 1TV )   

I'd say UK soap are positively 'uplifting'  in comparison
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 31, 2020, 08:36:35 AM
How to escape the average UK hedgerow village for a Pub run during quarantine...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11290513/couple-spot-neighbour-dressed-bush-escape-lockdown/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on March 31, 2020, 11:18:51 AM

Have you heard the one about the boy who cried wolf?

So, Rosco ..

The 'boy that cried Wolf', eh ?

NHS workers STILL at home as they don't know if they have the virus...


I supposed you missed tonight's news ..?

Then the govt spokesman had the temerity to suggest 'non availability of test kits' ... 






Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 31, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
How to escape the average UK hedgerow village for a Pub run during quarantine...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11290513/couple-spot-neighbour-dressed-bush-escape-lockdown/


Is he Mr Bean or Pink Panther?!?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
Billy,
This one is not a scam.

Taiwan doctors come to an agreement that hydroxychloroquine, a quinoline medicine used to treat or prevent malaria, works on Wuhan virus patients at their early stage of this disease.

An old Swiss woman at her 90 years age has recovered from lung attack by Wuhan virus, after having been treated by this malaria drug.

Hydroxychloroquine is now a generic drug.  Any one can produce it without paying royalty fee.

Doctor prescription is mandatory.  Do not buy it yourself.


The FDA approved Hydroxychloroquin for use against the Coronavirus. It should be used in conjunction with Z pak for maximum benefit.

Guess it doesn’t rise to the level of snake oil as Billy Bob tried to imply.

Billy would be a perfect fit as a commentator on the number one #fakenews site CNN.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 11:28:19 AM
What has become clear is the CCP is our true enemy in this entire Covid19 fiasco... Systematically using predatory capitalism to bankrupt USA meds and PPE suppliers with corrupt Dems and GOPe  bought off by lobbyist offshoring USA industries... Clearly that fuster cluck will be corrected.

Hopefully sane minds will work to end Russian sanctions and normalize relations... I noticed name patches on ISS astronauts in both English and Russian ... If we can cooperate in space perhaps we can on earth as well.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 31, 2020, 11:33:00 AM
What has become clear is the CCP is our true enemy in this entire Covid19 fiasco... Systematically using predatory capitalism to bankrupt USA meds and PPE suppliers with corrupt Dems and GOPe  bought off by lobbyist offshoring USA industries... Clearly that fuster cluck will be corrected.

Hopefully sane minds will work to end Russian sanctions and normalize relations... I noticed name patches on ISS astronauts in both English and Russian ... If we can cooperate in space perhaps we can on earth as well.

USA has helped us in 2019.  We are here to help USA also.

Do not need to rush to the conclusion that Russia will help ChiNazi in the coming USA-ChiNazi conflict.  Since the age of ancient Russia, Russia is always the one who takes advantage from China.  They never have any ally relationship.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 31, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
Quote
“In terms of the fluid regime – how the exhalations are emitted – the key point that we have shown is that there’s a gaseous cloud that carries droplets of all sorts of sizes, not ‘large’ versus ‘small’ or ‘droplets’ versus ‘aerosols,’” she said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/30/coronavirus-social-distancing-mit-researcher-lydia-bourouiba-27-feet/5091526002/

Quote
A Washington state choir rehearsal is now considered a “super-spreading event” for coronavirus after 45 attendees fell ill and two died, according to a new report.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/washington-choir-rehearsal-turns-deadly-after-coronavirus-kills-2/


You have it all wrong about social distancing.  Everyone needs a hazmat suit.  As if everyone was walking on the moon.   (:) :chuckle: ??? :duh: :P :biggrin:


Quote
The movie ends with Stone testifying to a senator that, while they were able to defeat an alien pathogen this time, they may not be able to do so in the future.

Quote
A 2003 publication by the Infectious Diseases Society of America noted that The Andromeda Strain is the "most significant, scientifically accurate, and prototypic of all films of this [killer virus] genre ... it accurately details the appearance of a deadly agent, its impact, and the efforts at containing it, and, finally, the work-up on its identification and clarification on why certain persons are immune to it."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Andromeda_Strain_(film)

 :bow:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:24 AM
Morning in Spring Season is particularly dangerous with respect to respiratory infection!

The mist is so thick that it helps to spread micro-organisms so much more that dry weather!

Be cautious!!!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on March 31, 2020, 12:19:44 PM
What has become clear is the CCP is our true enemy in this entire Covid19 fiasco... Systematically using predatory capitalism to bankrupt USA meds and PPE suppliers with corrupt Dems and GOPe  bought off by lobbyist offshoring USA industries... Clearly that fuster cluck will be corrected.

Hopefully sane minds will work to end Russian sanctions and normalize relations... I noticed name patches on ISS astronauts in both English and Russian ... If we can cooperate in space perhaps we can on earth as well.

USA has helped us in 2019.  We are here to help USA also.

Do not need to rush to the conclusion that Russia will help ChiNazi in the coming USA-ChiNazi conflict.  Since the age of ancient Russia, Russia is always the one who takes advantage from China.  They never have any ally relationship.

USSR (successor to Imperial Russia) had close relations with CCP in its early years and to help set up the "bamboo curtain".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split

Quote
As such, he shouted at the walls, convinced that Stalin had bugged the house: "I am here to do more than eat and shit."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35427926    :chuckle: (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 31, 2020, 12:26:07 PM

The FDA approved Hydroxychloroquin for use against the Coronavirus.


No they didn't. You can't even put up a link to your fake news because nothing will back up your statement. FDA is allowing emergency use of experimental drugs saying the benefits may outweigh the risks. They approved NO drug. With the FDA making their statement, it allows doctors to try anything without getting sued in hopes to find a treatment. But if you want to celebrate and throw a party that something was found to work against COVID-19, by all means, have some fun.

Start at 6:10 in the video below where a question is asked and Dr. Fauci, our nation's top expert said there's no proven and safe cure or treatment for COVID-19

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 31, 2020, 12:27:57 PM
How Not to Social Distance:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 12:47:09 PM

The FDA approved Hydroxychloroquin for use against the Coronavirus.


No they didn't. You can't even put up a link to your fake news because nothing will back up your statement. FDA is allowing emergency use of experimental drugs saying the benefits may outweigh the risks. They approved NO drug. With the FDA making their statement, it allows doctors to try anything without getting sued in hopes to find a treatment. But if you want to celebrate and throw a party that something was found to work against COVID-19, by all means, have some fun.


Yes actually they did. Since you’re too lazy to look I’ll post a link for you. And as I mentioned it should be taken with Z Pak according to the French study.

You’re too clueless to figure out that TPTB don’t want optimism and they certainly don’t want a cure.

Dr Fauci is our top expert? Good one Moby.  :ROFL:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/03/30/fda-approves-anti-malarial-drugs-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-for-emergency-coronavirus-treatment/amp/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 31, 2020, 01:21:15 PM
If one wants to play word semantics I suspect there are other forums. From the article that Confederate notes is the following text:

Updated: 3/30/20 at 10:15 p.m.

Topline: The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday issued an emergency authorization for experimental coronavirus treatments using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, anti-malaria drugs touted by President Donald Trump despite inconclusive clinical proof of their efficacy.

The Department of Health and Human Services said Sunday hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine products can “be distributed and prescribed by doctors to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19, as appropriate, when a clinical trial is not available or feasible.”
HHS said Germany’s Sandoz has already given 30 million doses of hydroxychloroquine to the Strategic National Stockpile, the federal government’s supply of medical supplies for public health emergencies, while Bayer has donated a million doses of chloroquine.
The agency is fast-tracking a process that usually takes years while the FDA conducts clinical trials in New York, a hot spot for the virus.
HHS said the emergency authorization was issued because the potential benefits of the product outweigh the risks and acknowledged that “anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients, but cautioned that “clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”
Trump had, unsurprisingly, falsely claimed that the FDA had approved the drugs for coronavirus treatment before Sunday.
Confusion over their use has led some Americans to seek over-the-counter replacements, such as an Arizona man who bought a nonpharmaceutical form of chloroquine phosphate, a common chemical used to clean fish tanks, which killed him and landed his now-widow in intensive care.

I highlighted some texts and this is not the entire article. If I am not mistaken Markje has already noted these drugs a month ago showed some promise.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 31, 2020, 01:36:57 PM
The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday issued an emergency authorization for experimental coronavirus treatments using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, anti-malaria drugs touted by President Donald Trump despite inconclusive clinical proof of their efficacy.


Confederate actually thinks the FDA claims certain drugs work against COVID-19. They just allowed emergency authorization for certain "experimental" drugs to be used. Word "Experimental" is in there because no drugs have been proven to work. There are some drugs that may work great on 5% of the COVID-19 patients and it's enough to get some hospital doctors to claim it's a miracle treatment but it's not enough evidence to get FDA, CDC, and WHO approval to say it's proven to be safe and effective. So much misinformation on the internet now with people making claims something works or a vaccine is around the corner that it's hard to find the truth which has become a needle in a haystack.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on March 31, 2020, 01:57:39 PM
Our cat is taking Nooooooo chances!!!!   :laugh:

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91366738_10216836832689861_7166264211683672064_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQn7QaLHnqduyizN7F5dGGMDVaZjJPTOBoYNj3LCO4Uh5lxLyZxRbyKjjiAucjdw2Pw&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=1b6805357dec64b9fe17d00e65d3d287&oe=5EA7DA2D)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 02:25:46 PM

The FDA approved Hydroxychloroquin for use against the Coronavirus.


[insults removed]

Re-read my statement above. I clearly and explicitly stated that Hydroxychloroquin has been approved by the FDA against the Coronavirus.

If someone is being treated for the Coronavirus is it not an emergency and are they not being treated for that emergency? Yes it's an emergency and that's what the drug has been approved for.

Words in the English language actually do have specific meaning. Did I claim in my post that Hydroxychloroquin was approved permanently, for a variety of reasons?

No I did not. I specifically stated it was approved for CV, which is an emergency.

I don't waste a lot of time spelling things out for dim-wits because intelligent people who aren't lazy can read and do the research on their own, and if they are one of the unlucky ones who find themselves in an ER and then an ICU, they can decide, along with an MD if they would like to take the medication.

Going forward Andy can take your dumbass out back and give you the verbal beating you so richly deserve.  :chuckle:


French study chart, posted once more for potential new readers.
I'm not going to read it line by line for buffoons, nor argue the merits.
Each individual can read for themselves and decide with an ER Doctor if needed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 03:29:56 PM

CV Timeline Review, Veterans Today.


https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-the-plot-thickens-with-timeline-review/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 03:54:27 PM

How Western media spins the news. Global Research.


https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-how-western-media-spin-news/5702888
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 08:39:47 PM

A very interesting article. Probably somewhat similar to the excellent Hutchins opinion piece posted by Manny up thread.


https://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2020/03/covid-19-countering-current-narrative.html?m=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on March 31, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
Another very interesting article. I especially liked some of the comments.  :chuckle:

Robken
6 hours ago
“These precautions will kill millions as apposed to the virus - this is a minor virus, which by the way was bioengineered. It is totally un precedented that these government restrictions to close business, schools, have been imposed to implement the real agenda. The world will never recover from this epidemic, as we have done from previous epidemics, which were much worse. The real agenda is a single currency and the chipping and vaccination of all citizens.”


Avatar
mulegino1 .
13 hours ago
“In fact, these are women who reached their status by rejecting every aspect of womanhood. The West is now a world run by middle-aged childless women.
As Julius Evola observed, such women thrive in an era lacking in virile men. What our Jew ridden culture venerates is not the true man- in the virile and virtuous ("virtue"- strength-derives from "vir", i.e., "manliness") but the priapic male; hence the worship of negroid athletes and rappers, and the dominance of Jew financiers and financial predators.

So it is only natural that sterile, middle aged women would achieve predominance in such a counter-culture. The rule of women over men is one of the signs of the last days, or the Kali Yuga. It is an inversion of the natural order.“


https://russia-insider.com/en/we-are-living-through-mass-panic-it-not-justified-facts/ri28495
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 31, 2020, 11:20:47 PM
Cooped up at home? You can help scientists spot penguins from space or seek out new galaxies
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/cooped-home-you-can-help-scientists-spot-penguins-space-or-n1172151


Person dresses as bush to sneak out during the coronavirus lockdown

https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/person-dresses-as-bush-to-sneak-out-during-coronavirus-lockdown/


Scientist Gets Magnets Stuck Up Nose While Inventing Necklace
to Stop People Touching Their Faces

https://www.thedailybeast.com/daniel-reardon-gets-magnets-stuck-up-nose-while-inventing-necklace-to-stop-people-touching-their-faces


Coronavirus: Driver stopped on M6 lockdown
trip with wife in boot (trunk)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-52088987


Belarus president believes vodka and saunas will cure coronavirus
https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/belarus-president-believes-vodka-and-saunas-will-cure-coronavirus/


Why Not Wearing A Bra During Self-Isolation Is The Best
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/benefits-of-not-wearing-bra-152829641.html


Policeman wears Conovirus helmet
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/28/policeman-wears-coronavirus-helmet-warn-people-stay-home-12471259/?ito=cbshare


For the golfers out there: Try this
https://giphy.com/gifs/quarantine-games-kZuUruHIMI388eLSpr?utm_source=iframe&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=Embeds&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bandon.tv%2F


Drone Pilot Flies Drone With a Roll of Toilet Paper Across San Francisco to a Quarantined Friend in Need
https://laughingsquid.com/drone-delivers-roll-of-toilet-paper/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on March 31, 2020, 11:23:39 PM
Our cat is taking Nooooooo chances!!!!   :laugh:

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91366738_10216836832689861_7166264211683672064_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQn7QaLHnqduyizN7F5dGGMDVaZjJPTOBoYNj3LCO4Uh5lxLyZxRbyKjjiAucjdw2Pw&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=1b6805357dec64b9fe17d00e65d3d287&oe=5EA7DA2D)

 Considering you like to dip into it's food dish once in a while I don't blame it!   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 31, 2020, 11:27:19 PM
USA has helped us in 2019.

Are you referring to them funding the “protests” in Hong Kong that irreparably damaged the economy there?

With help like that, who needs enemies?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 01, 2020, 05:50:07 AM
For 40 years I watched ‘rampant fraud’ on Wall Street
destroy capitalism, Covid-19 nailed its coffin shut


(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.03/l/5e83241585f54021f271cb92.JPG)

By Mitchell Feierstein, investor, banker, and author of Planet Ponzi (http://planetponzi.com/): How we got into this mess, what happens next, and how to protect yourself. He spends his time between London and Manhattan.

The Covid-19 market turmoil set off a chain of flashbacks in my mind, from crisis to crisis over the past 40 years. They all fit together in a picture of Wall Street fraud and criminal policies, with the virus as the last straw.

Read the full Article Covid-19 nailed its coffin shut (https://on.rt.com/adw3)

When finished and enjoyed the above you may want
to learn more why the End of the USA Empire is Nigh!


This Huge Jewish Finance Firm Just Took Over the US Treasury and Fed (https://russia-insider.com/en/huge-jewish-finance-firm-just-took-over-us-treasury-and-fed-blackrock-transcript-audio/ri28494)

I heard in the news that California is under Lockdown
but the shops selling guns....are permitted to be open!


 :trainwreck:   :GRAVE:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 01, 2020, 06:43:05 AM
Looks like CDC just had a collective pulledheadsoutfromarsesectomy.... They revealed everyone should wear masks all the time when out about the unwashed masses.  MIT research shows why:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/31/nation/six-foot-rule-protect-against-coronavirus-is-questionable-mit-professor-says/%3foutputType=amp

Six-foot rule to protect against coronavirus is questionable, MIT professor says
Calls research it’s based on outdated, finds that droplets can travel much farther
By Gal Tziperman Lotan Globe Staff,Updated March 31, 2020, 9:41 a.m.

The oft-repeated guideline to stay six feet away from other people in order to reduce the risk of coronavirus transmission is based on decades-old research that has sorely needed updating for years, according to an MIT professor who studies the issue.

There are a few inaccuracies there, Bourouiba said.

First, the division between large and small droplets is arbitrary, both in classifying their size and in determining how much risk they carry.

Second, our exhalations — even if we’re not coughing or sneezing — can still contain a gas cloud of viral particles. And a particularly powerful sneeze can send these particles, both in droplets and in a puff of gas traveling through the air, flying much farther than six feet. Under the right conditions, they can go 23 to 27 feet, Bourouiba has found.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 01, 2020, 07:04:06 AM
Ah, masks AGAIN ...

There's not much to be done if one is ordered to wear them ...

The type of conversations *I* 'imagine' from imaginary people :

"This recent research suggests to me that fabric impregnated with colloidal Cu [ Copper] might be interesting to kill viruses rather than just act as filters .....ask *** for his thoughts.

It is easy to make colloidal (nano sized) silver suspensions in water so I assume Cu would also be easy to handle.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151110102147.htm"


*** responds

"Dear ****,

I hope that you're both keeping well and coping with glorious isolation.

Both of the articles are interesting. Thank you for sharing them. Nono-particles certainly have antibacterial and antiviral properties.

The problem with masks is that most are pretty useless in preventing aerosol intake to the nasopharynx of the wearer.

That said, even simple surgical masks prevent the wearer from touching their own face while wearing the mask. But removal of a worn mask poses its own potential problems.

Only correctly fitted masks with a soft gasket against the face prevent lateral ingress of air +- aerosol content.

Otherwise the air flow is a bit like what happens when you put your hands in a Dyson hand dryer, with lateral ingress. "

Moby:  Not sure how wearing a surgical mask prevents viral transmission via touching the face - as the surgical mask becomes a damp membrane within minutes
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 01, 2020, 10:17:12 AM
For 40 years I watched ‘rampant fraud’ on Wall Street
destroy capitalism, Covid-19 nailed its coffin shut


(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.03/l/5e83241585f54021f271cb92.JPG)

By Mitchell Feierstein, investor, banker, and author of Planet Ponzi (http://planetponzi.com/): How we got into this mess, what happens next, and how to protect yourself. He spends his time between London and Manhattan.

The Covid-19 market turmoil set off a chain of flashbacks in my mind, from crisis to crisis over the past 40 years. They all fit together in a picture of Wall Street fraud and criminal policies, with the virus as the last straw.

Read the full Article Covid-19 nailed its coffin shut (https://on.rt.com/adw3)

When finished and enjoyed the above you may want
to learn more why the End of the USA Empire is Nigh!


This Huge Jewish Finance Firm Just Took Over the US Treasury and Fed (https://russia-insider.com/en/huge-jewish-finance-firm-just-took-over-us-treasury-and-fed-blackrock-transcript-audio/ri28494)

I heard in the news that California is under Lockdown
but the shops selling guns....are permitted to be open!




1. Wiz, why wouldn’t gun shops still be open? Law abiding citizens in the USA have a Constitutional right to protect life and property with firearms.

Unlike you sheep who soon enough will get buggered by the 3rd World refuse you imported.

But in actual fact, there’s a constant battle here between those who respect our Constitution and Commie basterds like you. LA County supervisors voted to close gun shops.

2. The article you posted from RT is excellent, but he doesn’t conclude that the US empire is over. He believes our liberties will be curtailed, which they are. He actually concludes by saying there will be opportunities for getting rich again when the bottom of the market is reached.

From the middle of the article:

“ Covid-19 presents an easy way to assign blame while forcing through “emergency legislation” allowing big government to implement 1984-style draconian social controls that will impinge and dismantle personal freedoms, liberties and democratic principles as they fleece taxpayers – again. If you think the 2008 recession and bailouts were bad, wait until you see how the greatest economic depression in history plays out.”

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 01, 2020, 02:03:58 PM

1. Wiz, why wouldn’t gun shops still be open? Law abiding citizens in the USA have a Constitutional right to protect life and property with firearms.

Unlike you sheep who soon enough will get buggered by the 3rd World refuse you imported.

But in actual fact, there’s a constant battle here between those who respect our Constitution and Commie basterds like you. LA County supervisors voted to close gun shops.

2. The article you posted from RT is excellent, but he doesn’t conclude that the US empire is over. He believes our liberties will be curtailed, which they are. He actually concludes by saying there will be opportunities for getting rich again when the bottom of the market is reached.

From the middle of the article:

“ Covid-19 presents an easy way to assign blame while forcing through “emergency legislation” allowing big government to implement 1984-style draconian social controls that will impinge and dismantle personal freedoms, liberties and democratic principles as they fleece taxpayers – again. If you think the 2008 recession and bailouts were bad, wait until you see how the greatest economic depression in history plays out.”

It is very clear that almost none of our American members can make any decent conversation and discuss in a civilised manner any subject without resorting to personal remarks and attacks!

Just because I have a very different knowledge and views about Democracy,  that does not make me a follower of communistic ideology and practices.

All of you there you are talking about Democracy and Democratic rights and have not a bloody clue what they really mean as you have been brought up in a very violent and ugly society. Every so often we hear the results of your civilised society ......killings going on like football matches almost every day and week.

And now when the financial world is going down the hole and your Empire is sinking..... all you think is to go out and buy guns and kill each other!

 The part of the text you copied..... describes accurately what is happening in the land of plenty!

"Covid-19 presents an easy way to assign blame while forcing through “emergency legislation” allowing big government to implement 1984-style draconian social controls that will impinge and dismantle personal freedoms, liberties and democratic principles as they fleece taxpayers – again."

So who owns the FED and your Treasury Department now?
The Jewish Banksters and Their New World Order?


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/91_FGoOwXkI/hqdefault.jpg)

REMEMBER DEMOCRACY WA BORN IN GREECE !
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 01, 2020, 02:21:19 PM
Quote
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo reiterated his accusation that China, Iran, and Russia have engaged in "disinformation campaigns" about the coronavirus pandemic, saying they were seeking to sow "confusion" about its origins.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pompeo-accuses-china-iran-and-russia-of-coronavirus-disinformation/ar-BB121Ih9

The axis of evil is at it again.   :chuckle: (:)

Quote
U.S. officials say they are receiving near-daily reports of “imminent” attacks planned against U.S.-linked military or diplomatic facilities.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-says-iran-or-its-proxies-planning-a-sneak-attack-warns-of-a-heavy-price/ar-BB121VpH

When the opponent is "on the ropes", you go for the kill.   :evilgrin0002: >:( :GRRRR: :fighting0025:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 01, 2020, 02:46:43 PM
Quote
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo reiterated his accusation that China, Iran, and Russia have engaged in "disinformation campaigns" about the coronavirus pandemic, saying they were seeking to sow "confusion" about its origins.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pompeo-accuses-china-iran-and-russia-of-coronavirus-disinformation/ar-BB121Ih9

The axis of evil is at it again.   :chuckle: (:)

Quote
U.S. officials say they are receiving near-daily reports of “imminent” attacks planned against U.S.-linked military or diplomatic facilities.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-says-iran-or-its-proxies-planning-a-sneak-attack-warns-of-a-heavy-price/ar-BB121VpH

When the opponent is "on the ropes", you go for the kill.   :evilgrin0002: >:( :GRRRR: :fighting0025:

You really have to question this sort of info. I find myself thinking, well if I was an enemy of the US, is this an opportunity?

I also find myself thinking, this seems all a bit planned and my support gives these guys carte Blanche to bomb the shit out of some poor sod, who’s a necessary evil, under the guys of national security.

You’d like to think your own country is being honest but some of these guys are born evil.  >:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 01, 2020, 10:15:15 PM
It appears that both China and now Italy are grossly under reporting deaths from the virus. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported/ar-BB122vvc?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 02, 2020, 12:53:36 AM
There are lots of folks caught up in the closing of borders who have or are about to 'lose' their legal status as their visa run out .

Outwardly, the UK govt seem to have taken a very reasonable attitude to such folk - as long as they let 'our' immigration authorities know where they are and how they can be contacted.

Some other nations, folks are afraid to go out on the streets as 'illegal ' aliens ..


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 02, 2020, 01:01:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52130230 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52130230)


This scandalous farce re the ( lack  of)  testing of frontline NHS and care staff continues ...  but it's 'OK' to test Princes and MPs ?

"Mr Johnson was speaking after it was revealed only 2,000 out of some half a million frontline NHS workers in England had been tested."


This wasn't 'crying wolf' .. it's a MEGA cock-up and STILL keeping many staff at home, needlessly - when they could be saving lives .


Again, we have companies in the UK  that made the two types of tests and our govt had ordered NONE as a of a week ago ..

This is simply poor management
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on April 02, 2020, 08:09:05 AM
VP has just announced that Russia will remain shut down until at least the end of April, people on full pay.
Strong enforcement measures are going to be applied.. Additional resources and personnel added as required.
Local Governments will monitor this shutdown and modify it as needed/situation allows..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 02, 2020, 08:23:15 AM
An interesting poem for the times we are in.

I. The Burial of the Dead

April is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
Winter kept us warm, covering
Earth in forgetful snow, feeding
A little life with dried tubers.


From The Wasteland of T. S. Eliot
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 02, 2020, 09:12:39 AM
Saw this news and thought of Cornfed

Only he can perhaps 'explain' this guys thought process ? ..


https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid-train-driver-drove-speeding-loco-off-tracks-try-destroy-coronavirus-hospital-ship-12498986/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid-train-driver-drove-speeding-loco-off-tracks-try-destroy-coronavirus-hospital-ship-12498986/)


'...train driver drove speeding loco off tracks to try and destroy coronavirus hospital ship’

I left off the leading  adjective




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 02, 2020, 10:57:10 AM
Saw this news and thought of Cornfed

Only he can perhaps 'explain' this guys thought process ? ..


https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid-train-driver-drove-speeding-loco-off-tracks-try-destroy-coronavirus-hospital-ship-12498986/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid-train-driver-drove-speeding-loco-off-tracks-try-destroy-coronavirus-hospital-ship-12498986/)


'...train driver drove speeding loco off tracks to try and destroy coronavirus hospital ship’

I left off the leading  adjective

People get themselves so hyped up on propaganda that they think they are opposing the government take over by attacking the hospital ship. There are those that believe the virus was a planned event to take over the world's governments or to reduce freedoms around the world and/or in the USA. Then there are those that believe no matter what happens in the world it is a CIA plot in this case a CIA virus. You can tell how smart he was the locomotive never got close to the ship.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 02, 2020, 11:34:18 AM

'...train driver drove speeding loco off tracks to try and destroy coronavirus hospital ship’




When God passed out brains, the train engineer missed the boat.


This is the type of toilet paper we need in a crisis. I can't find it on the internet but I'd like to buy a case.

http://www.tiktok.com/@uncorked/video/6804259399561972997

The virus has hampered people's ability to think. Frustration sets in.

http://www.tiktok.com/@uncorked/video/6800793516017601798

The short video in the link below sums up the events of the Coronavirus as they unfolded perfectly. It's uniquely funny and sad at the same time.

http://www.tiktok.com/@uncorked/video/6810076023753886981

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 02, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Quote
"Not one single person has been infected with the novel coronavirus in our country so far," Pak told AFP.

"We have carried out preemptive and scientific measures such as inspections and quarantine for all personnel entering our country and thoroughly disinfecting all goods, as well as closing borders and blocking sea and air lanes."

https://news.yahoo.com/n-korea-insists-free-coronavirus-052826079.html

Harmony and stability override several million dead.   (:)

Quote
“We absolutely need to have an information finding mission, otherwise we’re flying blind,” Chou said. “There’s no ventilator for the brain. If the lungs are broken we can put the patient on a ventilator and hope for recovery. We don’t have that luxury with the brain.”

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-patients-show-signs-brain-121809792.html

Viruses love human nerve tissue.   :scared0005: :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 02, 2020, 01:33:42 PM
Quote
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo reiterated his accusation that China, Iran, and Russia have engaged in "disinformation campaigns" about the coronavirus pandemic, saying they were seeking to sow "confusion" about its origins.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pompeo-accuses-china-iran-and-russia-of-coronavirus-disinformation/ar-BB121Ih9

The axis of evil is at it again.   :chuckle: (:)

Quote
U.S. officials say they are receiving near-daily reports of “imminent” attacks planned against U.S.-linked military or diplomatic facilities.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-says-iran-or-its-proxies-planning-a-sneak-attack-warns-of-a-heavy-price/ar-BB121VpH

When the opponent is "on the ropes", you go for the kill.   :evilgrin0002: >:( :GRRRR: :fighting0025:

You really have to question this sort of info. I find myself thinking, well if I was an enemy of the US, is this an opportunity?

I also find myself thinking, this seems all a bit planned and my support gives these guys carte Blanche to bomb the shit out of some poor sod, who’s a necessary evil, under the guys of national security.

You’d like to think your own country is being honest but some of these guys are born evil.  >:(

Quote
"Iran starts no wars but teaches lessons to those who do," he added.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iran-us-heat-war-words-iraq-despite-virus-111704355.html

This could be referring to the fatwa issued on Saddam and the almost 10 year war.   :-\

We had a war and then a pandemic in 1918.  Now we can have a pandemic and then a war.   History always repeats itself.  :biggrin: (:)

Best not to fight proxies.  You need to get "at the root of the problem" as seen in the Korean and Vietnam wars (Iron and bamboo curtains).  Fighting proxies is like a hand slap instead of a pummeling.   (:)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 02, 2020, 02:23:14 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-confirmed-cases-reach-one-million-worldwide-195301358.html

Ding, ding, ding.  Count has passed 1 million.  With over 50,000 dead that is about a 5% rate.  Some have said that this is incorrect and a more accurate rate is around 1% or less.  That means over 5 million cases are present.   :scared0005: :snivel: :hidechair: :o :duh: ??? :-X

Quote
The world knew almost nothing about the virus in December, when reports of a new coronavirus started to surface in Wuhan, China. Since then, it has spread to nearly every country in the world, disrupting daily life for millions under lockdown measures meant to curb the virus' rapid spread.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/worldwide-coronavirus-cases-reach-1-million-doubling-in-a-week-as-death-toll-tops-50000/ar-BB125lgU

Note that this is the year of the rat (2020).  The last year of the rat (2008) saw the subprime meltdown.   :nod:

Quote
"It's very terrifying to be flying the plane at the same time you're building it."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nyc-medical-workers-treating-coronavirus-describe-fear-confusion-protective-equipment-n1174441

Time to jump out.    (:) :scared0005: :hidechair: :plane: :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 02, 2020, 03:12:40 PM
For a while I have wondered about ones immunity to being re-infected by the virus that originated came from Wuhan. In one way the 'herd immunity' approach is predicated on this assumption. The below link answers some questions and asks new ones.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/20/819038431/do-you-get-immunity-after-recovering-from-a-case-of-coronavirus

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 02, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-confirmed-cases-reach-one-million-worldwide-195301358.html

Ding, ding, ding.  Count has passed 1 million.  With over 50,000 dead that is about a 5% rate.  Some have said that this is incorrect and a more accurate rate is around 1% or less.  That means over 5 million cases are present.   :scared0005: :snivel: :hidechair: :o :duh: ??? :-X


Out of over a million people infected, only 212,000 recovered. Many of the remaining 800,000 infected will go into the dead category raising the death rate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 02, 2020, 03:47:53 PM
A very interesting article I read today shared by Peter Hitchens: https://conservativewoman.co.uk/if-the-virus-is-so-bad-why-are-european-death-rates-down/

Much food for thought there.

This was particularly interesting:

"A study by immunology professor Sergio Romagnani from the University of Florence looks at 3,000 people in the fully Covid-19 tested Italian community of Vo and comes to the conclusion that 50 to 75 per cent of the test-positive people of all ages remain completely symptom-free.

An extensive survey in Iceland finds that 50 per cent of all test-positive people show ‘no symptoms' at all.

A Japanese study shows that 48 per cent of the test-positive passengers on the Diamond Princess cruise ship remain symptom-free.

The consistency of these findings from a variety of contexts is remarkable and suggests Covid-19 may turn out to be symptom-free in around half of infections."

And this:

"This picture fits well with the death rate of around 0.1 per cent (or the same as flu) ascribed to it by a significant number of virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists around the world, including John Ioannidis, Sucharit Bhakdi, Stefan Hockertz, Pablo Goldschmidt, Giulio Tarro, Carsten Scheller, Yanis Roussel, and Eran Bendavid and Jay Bhattacharya.

We might also note that the UK government appears, oddly, to agree with this mortality rate since, despite the extraordinarily costly, illiberal and harmful lengths it has gone to in its efforts to suppress Covid-19, it has just removed it from the official list of High Consequence Infectious Diseases (HCID), stating that mortality rates are ‘low overall'."

Was that worth locking the country up and crashing the economy for?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 02, 2020, 04:01:02 PM
Quote
“Anyone who tells you these drugs work, or don’t work, is not basing that view on science,” said David Juurlink, head of the division of clinical pharmacology at the University of Toronto. “There’s reason to be optimistic, and there’s also reason to be pessimistic.”

“I’m a strong supporter of clinical trials,” he said. “But they take time, and that’s one thing we don’t have. The virus is here, it’s World War III, and not everyone has fully comprehended that yet.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/touting-virus-cure-simple-country-184056340.html

The pandemic deniers need to be sent out to tabulate the official death count all around the world.  They must count the dead one by one to accurately compile the actual number of dead that shows direct evidence of the infection.  They will do it without any PPE since they say there is no pandemic in the first place.   :chuckle: :evilgrin0002: :thumbsup:

My nomination for 2020 Time 'Person of the Year' :  Coronavirus  (organism of the year - maybe century)?   (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 02, 2020, 04:26:52 PM
A very interesting article I read today shared by Peter Hitchens: https://conservativewoman.co.uk/if-the-virus-is-so-bad-why-are-european-death-rates-down/

Much food for thought there.

This was particularly interesting:

"A study by immunology professor Sergio Romagnani from the University of Florence looks at 3,000 people in the fully Covid-19 tested Italian community of Vo and comes to the conclusion that 50 to 75 per cent of the test-positive people of all ages remain completely symptom-free.

An extensive survey in Iceland finds that 50 per cent of all test-positive people show ‘no symptoms’ at all.

A Japanese study shows that 48 per cent of the test-positive passengers on the Diamond Princess cruise ship remain symptom-free.

The consistency of these findings from a variety of contexts is remarkable and suggests Covid-19 may turn out to be symptom-free in around half of infections."

And this:

"This picture fits well with the death rate of around 0.1 per cent (or the same as flu) ascribed to it by a significant number of virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists around the world, including John Ioannidis, Sucharit Bhakdi, Stefan Hockertz, Pablo Goldschmidt, Giulio Tarro, Carsten Scheller, Yanis Roussel, and Eran Bendavid and Jay Bhattacharya.

We might also note that the UK government appears, oddly, to agree with this mortality rate since, despite the extraordinarily costly, illiberal and harmful lengths it has gone to in its efforts to suppress Covid-19, it has just removed it from the official list of High Consequence Infectious Diseases (HCID), stating that mortality rates are ‘low overall’."

Was that worth locking the country up and crashing the economy for?

Hell no!

From the CDC, USA:

“Positive [test] results are indicative of active infection with 2019-nCoV but do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 02, 2020, 04:37:35 PM
Peter Hitchens eiither did not not bother to research the definition of HCID or is being purposefully misleading.

The corona virus does not meet the definition of being an HCID but that does not mean it does not present a real threat. I have been going on about the disease having a much lower fatality rate since January. However the many, many deaths are very real. The lower fatality rate hypothesis informed the response of the UK government when they set out to control the rate at which we became infected. This still seems to be the basis of the UK planning.

As for comparisons of normal deaths and what is happening now - at least in Italy and Spain the excess of deaths is huge and clear. I have seen the data. Nobody that I have seen suggesting otherwise has ever preatnted data. The claim is made without factual support.

Of course, the very fact of the necessity for the actions taken tells us that many people are ill and dying.

Right now, across the UK, there has been a significant, large, increase in the number of acute and IC beds. All possible beds taken by elective surgery have been made available. These beds are currently 90% full and getting more full. That's not normal.

It might be that with the gift of hindsight that we might say things could have been done slightly differently but right now, given what we know, the way matters are being handled seems rational, compassionate, well-informed and appropriate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 02, 2020, 04:40:23 PM
Confederate, that's nothing new. Covid-19 is a viral infection. As it develops in the lungs it causes damage that enables bacterial and fungal organisms normally present in the lungs to multiply and overwhelm the body. That's why antibiotic treatment is part of the package. It's also why on the chloroquine treatment the second drug in the package is an antifungal and anti bacterial drug.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 02, 2020, 04:45:41 PM
WTF Over...

Cut out the extreme sports and dangerous activities or elective surgeries for a while...

https://www.breitbart.com/news/short-of-blood-us-relaxes-restrictions-on-gay-donors/

Washington (AFP) – The United States on Thursday relaxed rules that prevent many gay men from giving blood in an effort to tackle a severe shortage of donations due to the COVID-19 outbreak.

Since 2015, men who have had sex with other men in the previous 12 months have been unable to donate blood. Previously, the ban was for life.

The period has been reduced to three months, the US Food and Drug Administration announced.

“The COVID-19 pandemic has caused unprecedented challenges to the US blood supply,” it said.

“Donor centers have experienced a dramatic reduction in donations due to the implementation of social distancing and the cancellation of blood drives.”

The FDA said recent research proved that the rules could “be modified without compromising the safety of the blood supply.”

HIV-AIDS in the blood supply is more terrifying than Covid19 imnsho.

Autologous donations now make more sense than ever for any elective surgery - problem is I do not trust all of the immigrants in our health care system to not phock up and the word of the FDA at this point is less than reliable considering they allowed the offshoring of our medical and pharmaceutical industries to Communist Freaking Red China and their evil CCP-Nazis.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on April 02, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
We're up to 3 cases of COVID-19 in Venango county. We're at around 7000 cases in the state of Pennsylvania, so our county is actually doing quite well (mostly due to the fact that we're so rural). Unfortunately, one of those three local cases turns out to be a neighbor of one of our construction guys! Needless to say, mom went from wanting them back on the job ASAP to feeling alright that no one's around working on the house.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 02, 2020, 04:55:23 PM
Peter Hitchens eiither did not not bother to research the definition of HCID or is being purposefully misleading.

The corona virus does not meet the definition of being an HCID but that does not mean it does not present a real threat. I have been going on about the disease having a much lower fatality rate since January. However the many, many deaths are very real. The lower fatality rate hypothesis informed the response of the UK government when they set out to control the rate at which we became infected. This still seems to be the basis of the UK planning.

As for comparisons of normal deaths and what is happening now - at least in Italy and Spain the excess of deaths is huge and clear. I have seen the data. Nobody that I have seen suggesting otherwise has ever preatnted data. The claim is made without factual support.

Of course, the very fact of the necessity for the actions taken tells us that many people are ill and dying.

Right now, across the UK, there has been a significant, large, increase in the number of acute and IC beds. All possible beds taken by elective surgery have been made available. These beds are currently 90% full and getting more full. That's not normal.

It might be that with the gift of hindsight that we might say things could have been done slightly differently but right now, given what we know, the way matters are being handled seems rational, compassionate, well-informed and appropriate.

Approximately 80% of the deaths in Italy had co-morbidity, meaning those people were on the way out to begin with. Northern Italy also has air which is as bad or worse than large industrial cities in China.

However the media hasn’t disclosed that a large percentage of the people dying had morbid factors and other diseases to begin with, they just blame the deaths on CV because fear and paranoia makes them huge amounts of money.

I believe the end-game is forced vaccinations, digital currencies and perhaps a nice implanted RFID chip as warned about in Revelations.

This may be a trial exercise to see how far they can push this thing, it hasn’t fully played out so that remains to be seen.

The loss of civil liberties and enormous damage to the economy is worse than the damage the virus would have caused if only the very sick were treated.

The financial assistance is the taxpayers money to begin with. This is just more debt and debt causes slavery.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 02, 2020, 05:11:01 PM

Deep down the virus rabbit hole. Alternative Media.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/deep-down-virus-rabbit-hole-question-everything/?owa_medium=feed&owa_sid=
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 02, 2020, 05:15:30 PM
Deep State plan to use an epidemic to enforce more totalitarian measures. From 10 years ago. Those who think this isn’t a deliberately released bio-engineered pandemic simply aren’t paying close attention to the red flags.


https://thefreedomarticles.com/2010-rockefeller-foundation-paper-plan-exploit-pandemic/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 02, 2020, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: Cornfed
Approximately 80% of the deaths in Italy had co-morbidity, meaning those people were on the way out to begin with.

I recall reading yesterday that the average age of those who died in Italy was 79.

The British comedian Eddie Large died yesterday. It was said he died from coronavirus. But he was already in hospital with acute heart failure and had had a heart transplant some years before. And he was 78. Can we attribute that type of death entirely to the virus? Or was the virus simply the straw that broke the camel‘s back?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 02, 2020, 05:48:25 PM
Quote from: Confederate
Approximately 80% of the deaths in Italy had co-morbidity, meaning those people were on the way out to begin with.

I recall reading yesterday that the average age of those who died in Italy was 79.

The British comedian Eddie Large died yesterday. It was said he died from coronavirus. But he was already in hospital with acute heart failure and had had a heart transplant some years before. And he was 78. Can we attribute that type of death entirely to the virus? Or was the virus simply the straw that broke the camel‘s back?

The straw that broke the camels back is accurate. 98% of people recover as they have a healthy immune system.

Per the rules of the forum TOS kindly use my correct given moniker. I expect such nonsense from Moby but it seems to me you should aspire to a higher standard.

Up thread I posted a link to an article by Medical professionals who are being ignored. One of them is a German Medical Doctor who gives some very valuable insights. I also thank you for posting the excellent articles by Hutchins.  tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 02, 2020, 06:03:26 PM
Quote
Our current invisible enemy has several dangerous features – high transmissibility, long incubation time, asymptomatic spread, relatively high mortality – but it is not the worst imaginable pathogen by any stretch. If the genetic lottery brings up even less favourable numbers next time around, then a far more dangerous virus than SARS-CoV-2 is entirely within the realm of possibility. In that case, the current pandemic might just have been a “dry run” for the Big One.

As the novelist Frank Herbert once said: “The function of sci-fi is not to predict the future, but to prevent it.” That leads us into a strange paradox: the better we manage to contain this pandemic, the less we will learn from it. Because there is one thing you can bet on for sure: as soon as this whole crisis blows over, the same minimalists will come forward and claim that it wasn’t as bad as the “fearmongers” had told us. Indeed, some of them are already busy committing that very fallacy.

https://theconversation.com/a-strange-paradox-the-better-we-manage-to-contain-the-coronavirus-pandemic-the-less-we-will-learn-from-it-135268


Count Dracula is waiting for you.   :evilgrin0002: (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 02, 2020, 06:54:10 PM
Dr Sukharit Bhakdi letter to Merkel. Germany.

Quoting:

“As Emeritus of the Johannes-Gutenberg-University in Mainz and longtime director of the Institute for Medical Microbiology, I feel obliged to critically question the far-reaching restrictions on public life that we are currently taking on ourselves in order to reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus.

It is expressly not my intention to play down the dangers of the virus or to spread a political message. However, I feel it is my duty to make a scientific contribution to putting the current data and facts into perspective – and, in addition, to ask questions that are in danger of being lost in the heated debate.

The reason for my concern lies above all in the truly unforeseeable socio-economic consequences of the drastic containment measures which are currently being applied in large parts of Europe and which are also already being practiced on a large scale in Germany.

My wish is to discuss critically – and with the necessary foresight – the advantages and disadvantages of restricting public life and the resulting long-term effects.”


Continued here:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/31/open-letter-from-prof-sucharit-bhakdi-to-chancellor-merkel/


additional excerpt:

2. DANGEROUSNESS

“A number of coronaviruses have been circulating for a long time – largely unnoticed by the media. [2] If it should turn out that the COVID-19 virus should not be ascribed a significantly higher risk potential than the already circulating corona viruses, all countermeasures would obviously become unnecessary.

The internationally recognized International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents will soon publish a paper that addresses exactly this question. Preliminary results of the study can already be seen today and lead to the conclusion that the new virus is NOT different from traditional corona viruses in terms of dangerousness. The authors express this in the title of their paper “SARS-CoV-2: Fear versus Data.” [3]
My question: How does the current workload of intensive care units with patients with diagnosed COVID-19 compare to other coronavirus infections, and to what extent will this data be taken into account in further decision-making by the federal government? In addition: Has the above study been taken into account in the planning so far? Here too, of course, „diagnosed“ means that the virus plays a decisive role in the patient’s state of illness, and not that previous illnesses play a greater role.

My question: How does the current workload of intensive care units with patients with diagnosed COVID-19 compare to other coronavirus infections, and to what extent will this data be taken into account in further decision-making by the federal government? In addition: Has the above study been taken into account in the planning so far? Here too, of course, „diagnosed“ means that the virus plays a decisive role in the patient’s state of illness, and not that previous illnesses play a greater role.”

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 02, 2020, 08:42:44 PM
We might also note that the UK government appears, oddly, to agree with this mortality rate since, despite the extraordinarily costly, illiberal and harmful lengths it has gone to in its efforts to suppress Covid-19, it has just removed it from the official list of High Consequence Infectious Diseases (HCID), stating that mortality rates are ‘low overall’."

Was that worth locking the country up and crashing the economy for?


We are told low mortality rates and only old people are dying so we don't go into panic. Our economies are going to crash and people will die but panic will make economies crash even further and kill more people than the virus.

While community hospitals can handle all kinds of sick and physically injured people, this one virus overwhelms hospitals. America's FEMA is looking for 100,000 body bags. Europe is going to need at least that much. We'd be needing tens of millions of body bags if we didn't take action against the virus. The world may need hundreds of millions of body bags if they didn't take action.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 02, 2020, 10:10:19 PM
A very interesting article I read today shared by Peter Hitchens: https://conservativewoman.co.uk/if-the-virus-is-so-bad-why-are-european-death-rates-down/

Much food for thought there.

This was particularly interesting:

"A study by immunology professor Sergio Romagnani from the University of Florence looks at 3,000 people in the fully Covid-19 tested Italian community of Vo and comes to the conclusion that 50 to 75 per cent of the test-positive people of all ages remain completely symptom-free.

An extensive survey in Iceland finds that 50 per cent of all test-positive people show ‘no symptoms’ at all.

A Japanese study shows that 48 per cent of the test-positive passengers on the Diamond Princess cruise ship remain symptom-free.

The consistency of these findings from a variety of contexts is remarkable and suggests Covid-19 may turn out to be symptom-free in around half of infections."

And this:

"This picture fits well with the death rate of around 0.1 per cent (or the same as flu) ascribed to it by a significant number of virologists, immunologists and epidemiologists around the world, including John Ioannidis, Sucharit Bhakdi, Stefan Hockertz, Pablo Goldschmidt, Giulio Tarro, Carsten Scheller, Yanis Roussel, and Eran Bendavid and Jay Bhattacharya.

We might also note that the UK government appears, oddly, to agree with this mortality rate since, despite the extraordinarily costly, illiberal and harmful lengths it has gone to in its efforts to suppress Covid-19, it has just removed it from the official list of High Consequence Infectious Diseases (HCID), stating that mortality rates are ‘low overall’."

Was that worth locking the country up and crashing the economy for?


Belarus has an official policy to fight the virus. Drink Vodka and hot saunas. It seems if you do not test anybody then you have no cases. Another country that seems to want to use the Manny method is Brazil. The president does not want any work stoppage over the virus. He claims he got elected to put Brazilians to work  and shutting down the country is not what the people voted for when they elected him. Our deaths (USA) per day have gone up over a thousand per day and expected to reach over 2500 per day in two weeks. We expect to lose more people to this virus than we lost in the war in Vietnam. The UK seems to be on a path to lose about half of what the USA loses but has a population of 1/5 the size. It is hard for an elected official of either country to stay in office when the only thing on TV would be the number of dead people and problems with hospitals. This virus is not going away any time soon. We may have to find a better way to fight it before the second wave comes. You guys would likely be looking at a 500,000 deaths in UK if Boris did nothing. Would the people of the UK accept that?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 03, 2020, 12:04:58 AM
Even if all people who died while infected with covid-19 had some other illness they are still people who would not have already died.

If you are claiming that these premature deaths are OK because the person would have died at some point in the future then, taking that faulty thought to the extreme, we don't need health care at all. We're all going to die, so why bother doing anything about it?

That's ridiculous.

As noted above and elsewhere, it is not just the people that die, it's the many times more people who only live due to the hospital care they receive. If they did not receive the care then they too would have died. Look at the Italian case for instruction. When the hospitals were overrun more people died. People who could've lived. The death rate skyrocketed because people who could've lived with decent care didn't get it.

Are you guys suggesting that when you can't breathe properly, when every breath feels like you're breathing through a straw, that we just leave you in your home to die alone, to drown while your lungs fill with fluid, with a box of ibuprofen and a doctor saying 'you're too fat to live'?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 03, 2020, 09:28:01 AM
Andrew I so agree. I can not think how we could just let people die without any care and that is what would have to happen if we did not make an effort to curb this virus. I am sure the hospitals reduce the number of people who died maybe by a factor of three. I have not seen any of the official number explain this or professional say what the death rate would be without care that is just my guess. The one per cent death rate is with good hospital care. Some I out government say were  surprised because of the Chinese artificially low numbers. I still can not see this. I am sure and always felt the Chinese would not of shut down there country without have a reason they could not cover up and their population would not stand for. I read a list of countries yesterday, about eight of them, that were suspected of covering up there true death rate because the real number would be politically incorrect. One of the reason I believe Russia has low numbers is Putin understood the real problem in China from his spy network and move quickly to curb it spread in Russia.

All the pictures I see of factory workers coming out of China they are all wearing n-95 style of mask. They started to open up flights again but apparently that had to stop because they were getting reinfections. From what I can tell, they maybe producing products again but China is still very different than what it was in November.  I am sure that we are going to have to do something similar. 

My Ukrainian girl's child graduates from high school this summer. I wanted to be there for that and to spend sometime with him. It does not look like it is going to be possible. I doubt there is going to be any flights. School is closed there and they will likely go all summer long. They keep changing things so it is hard to know what will happen. At this point I do not know if college will start on time in fall or not. College registration should have started but it has not and does not seem ready to start soon.  It is a very strange year. Some experts are saying the second wave could very likely start in the fall.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 03, 2020, 09:42:27 AM
The UK seems to be on a path to lose about half of what the USA loses but has a population of 1/5 the size. ?

Could you explain this contention - given 'we' are ahead in the cases curve...?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 03, 2020, 09:42:47 AM
Even if all people who died while infected with covid-19 had some other illness they are still people who would not have already died.

If you are claiming that these premature deaths are OK because the person would have died at some point in the future then, taking that faulty thought to the extreme, we don't need health care at all. We're all going to die, so why bother doing anything about it?

That's ridiculous.

As noted above and elsewhere, it is not just the people that die, it's the many times more people who only live due to the hospital care they receive. If they did not receive the care then they too would have died. Look at the Italian case for instruction. When the hospitals were overrun more people died. People who could've lived. The death rate skyrocketed because people who could've lived with decent care didn't get it.

Are you guys suggesting that when you can't breathe properly, when every breath feels like you're breathing through a straw, that we just leave you in your home to die alone, to drown while your lungs fill with fluid, with a box of ibuprofen and a doctor saying 'you're too fat to live'?


No, I’m suggesting first and foremost that healthy people should not be quarantined and that the economy should not be so fully shut down. That’s pure insanity and it shows that the human race has allowed the “elites” in the media and those controlling them to have insane excessive, illogical, unscientific control over our lives.

Quarantines are for gravely ill people, not for healthy people. It’s the damn media which should be quarantined and shut down!!

They profit from anxiety, fear and paranoia.

If the media were required to honestly and properly report that those people who are in hospital already had grave morbidity to begin with it would go along way to calm people.

I never once suggested that the sick people shouldn’t be given medical treatment and a chance to recover.

The damage to the economy and the damage to people’s confidence and mental health is deliberate. The elites are laughing at us because they know they have fiddled the death figures and manipulated this event into something huge which profits them at the expense of the rest of humanity. SMH!  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 03, 2020, 09:47:12 AM


No, I'm suggesting first and foremost that healthy people should not be quarantined and that the economy should not be so fully shut down. That's pure insanity and it shows that the human race has allowed the "elites" in the media and those controlling them to have insane excessive, illogical, unscientific control over our lives.

Quarantines are for gravel ill people, not for healthy people. It's the damn media which should be quarantined and shut down!!

They profit from anxiety, fear and paranoia.

If the media were required to honestly and properly report that those people who are in hospital already had grave morbidity to begin with it would go along way to calm people.

I never once suggested that the sick people shouldn't be given medical treatment and a chance to recover.

The damage to the economy and the damage to people's confidence and mental health is deliberate. The elites are laughing at us because they know they have fiddled the death figures and manipulated this event into something huge which profits totalitarian elites. SMH!  :'(

[Unsuitable comments removed]

"healthy people should not be quarantined "

It's reckoned that possibly 30% of infected folk are asymptomatic - i.e go around spreading the virus - without becoming ill


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 03, 2020, 09:58:11 AM
Andrew I so agree. I can not think how we could just let people die without any care and that is what would have to happen if we did not make an effort to curb this virus. I am sure the hospitals reduce the number of people who died maybe by a factor of three. I have not seen any of the official number explain this or professional say what the death rate would be without care that is just my guess. The one per cent death rate is with good hospital care. Some I out government say were  surprised because of the Chinese artificially low numbers. I still can not see this. I am sure and always felt the Chinese would not of shut down there country without have a reason they could not cover up and their population would not stand for. I read a list of countries yesterday, about eight of them, that were suspected of covering up there true death rate because the real number would be politically incorrect. One of the reason I believe Russia has low numbers is Putin understood the real problem in China from his spy network and move quickly to curb it spread in Russia.

All the pictures I see of factory workers coming out of China they are all wearing n-95 style of mask. They started to open up flights again but apparently that had to stop because they were getting reinfections. From what I can tell, they maybe producing products again but China is still very different than what it was in November.  I am sure that we are going to have to do something similar. 

My Ukrainian girl's child graduates from high school this summer. I wanted to be there for that and to spend sometime with him. It does not look like it is going to be possible. I doubt there is going to be any flights. School is closed there and they will likely go all summer long. They keep changing things so it is hard to know what will happen. At this point I do not know if college will start on time in fall or not. College registration should have started but it has not and does not seem ready to start soon.  It is a very strange year. Some experts are saying the second wave could very likely start in the fall.


My Ukrainian girl's child graduates from high school this summer. I wanted to be there for that and to spend sometime with him. It does not look like it is going to be possible. I doubt there is going to be any flights. School is closed there and they will likely go all summer long. They keep changing things so it is hard to know what will happen. At this point I do not know if college will start on time in fall or not. College registration should have started but it has not and does not seem ready to start soon.  It is a very strange year. Some experts are saying the second wave could very likely start in the fall.

What are you doing in the US then? In fact why are you not living in Ukraine? What is to stop you?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 03, 2020, 10:03:06 AM
Confederate,

You asked in another thread (can't find it at the moment) if I thought the coronavirus is a hoax. Depends on what you mean by hoax.

Of course, the virus is real. It remains to be seen if this is as serious as the world is making it out to be.

I'll say this, that stimulus bill they passed post haste is nothing more than a f^&king transfer of wealth to a very select few. Average Americans are getting it in the ass, I have no doubt about this.

4 months of unemployment benefits and $1200 worth of crumbs apparently are enough to pacify unsuspecting Americans into thinking their government gives a rats ass about them. They don't.

Your kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come.

Putting America's economic future in the hands of criminals like Steven Mnuchin makes my blood boil.  >:(. Yes, the same guy who foreclosed on 5.1 million Americans and bailed out the banks,

An 800-900 page document passes 96-0 in less time it takes to read the Cat in the Hat. GTFOH.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 03, 2020, 10:05:44 AM
Confederate,

You asked in another thread (can't find it at the moment) if I thought the coronavirus is a hoax. Depends on what you mean by hoax.

Of course, the virus is real. It remains to be seen if this is as serious as the world is making it out to be.

I'll say this, that stimulus bill they passed post haste is nothing more than a f^&king transfer of wealth to a very select few. Average Americana are getting it in the ass, I have no doubt about this.

4 months of unemployment benefits and $1200 worth of crumbs apparently are enough to pacify unsuspecting Americans into thinking their government gives a rats ass about them. They don't.

Your kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come.

Putting America's economic future in the hands of criminals like Steven Mnuchin makes my blood boil.  >:(. Yes, the same guy who foreclosed on 5.1 million Americans and bailed out the banks,

An 800-900 page document passes 96-0 in less time it takes to read the Cat in the Hat. GTFOH.

Two thumbs up on your post!

That’s exactly the hoax I’m talking about!

Left, Right, they all continue to screw us!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 03, 2020, 10:24:40 AM
Confederate,

You asked in another thread (can't find it at the moment) if I thought the coronavirus is a hoax. Depends on what you mean by hoax.

Of course, the virus is real. It remains to be seen if this is as serious as the world is making it out to be.

I'll say this, that stimulus bill they passed post haste is nothing more than a f^&king transfer of wealth to a very select few. Average Americana are getting it in the ass, I have no doubt about this.

4 months of unemployment benefits and $1200 worth of crumbs apparently are enough to pacify unsuspecting Americans into thinking their government gives a rats ass about them. They don't.

Your kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come.

Putting America's economic future in the hands of criminals like Steven Mnuchin makes my blood boil.  >:(. Yes, the same guy who foreclosed on 5.1 million Americans and bailed out the banks,

An 800-900 page document passes 96-0 in less time it takes to read the Cat in the Hat. GTFOH.

Two thumbs up on your post!

That’s exactly the hoax I’m talking about!

Left, Right, they all continue to screw us!!

People are always complaining about being screwed some more than others and some non stop..

As I see it there are just two solutions:

1. Stop complaining about being screwed.

2. make yourself UN screwable.

Problem solved?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 03, 2020, 10:31:52 AM
Confederate,

You asked in another thread (can't find it at the moment) if I thought the coronavirus is a hoax. Depends on what you mean by hoax.

Of course, the virus is real. It remains to be seen if this is as serious as the world is making it out to be.

I'll say this, that stimulus bill they passed post haste is nothing more than a f^&king transfer of wealth to a very select few. Average Americana are getting it in the ass, I have no doubt about this.

4 months of unemployment benefits and $1200 worth of crumbs apparently are enough to pacify unsuspecting Americans into thinking their government gives a rats ass about them. They don't.

Your kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come.

Putting America's economic future in the hands of criminals like Steven Mnuchin makes my blood boil.  >:(. Yes, the same guy who foreclosed on 5.1 million Americans and bailed out the banks,

An 800-900 page document passes 96-0 in less time it takes to read the Cat in the Hat. GTFOH.

Two thumbs up on your post!

That’s exactly the hoax I’m talking about!

Left, Right, they all continue to screw us!!

People are always complaining about being screwed some more than others and some non stop..

As I see it there are just two solutions:

1. Stop complaining about being screwed.

2. make yourself UN screwable.

Problem solved?

Go live in China where the have digital currency and people can lose rights and employment if they have a low obedience to the CCP (IOW they speak out against injustice and tyranny).

Complaining is healthy if there’s a healthy goal. My goal is to wake humanity up and fight tyranny, one person at a time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 03, 2020, 10:43:52 AM
Confederate,

You asked in another thread (can't find it at the moment) if I thought the coronavirus is a hoax. Depends on what you mean by hoax.

Of course, the virus is real. It remains to be seen if this is as serious as the world is making it out to be.

I'll say this, that stimulus bill they passed post haste is nothing more than a f^&king transfer of wealth to a very select few. Average Americana are getting it in the ass, I have no doubt about this.

4 months of unemployment benefits and $1200 worth of crumbs apparently are enough to pacify unsuspecting Americans into thinking their government gives a rats ass about them. They don't.

Your kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come.

Putting America's economic future in the hands of criminals like Steven Mnuchin makes my blood boil.  >:(. Yes, the same guy who foreclosed on 5.1 million Americans and bailed out the banks,

An 800-900 page document passes 96-0 in less time it takes to read the Cat in the Hat. GTFOH.

Two thumbs up on your post!

That’s exactly the hoax I’m talking about!

Left, Right, they all continue to screw us!!

People are always complaining about being screwed some more than others and some non stop..

As I see it there are just two solutions:

1. Stop complaining about being screwed.

2. make yourself UN screwable.

Problem solved?

Go live in China where the have digital currency and people can lose rights and employment if they have a low obedience to the CCP (IOW they speak out against injustice and tyranny).

Complaining is healthy if there’s a healthy goal. My goal is to wake humanity up and fight tyranny, one person at a time.

People have been doing that long before the Roman Empire.. Humans are Humans nothing will ever change .. best to accept it and look after yourself..

Your just sat on a big rock orbiting the sun for 14 billion years.. your life span is just 60-100 years.. nothing will ever change in that tiny amount of time..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 03, 2020, 11:41:41 AM
Quote
Recent research found flushing a toilet releases up to 80,000 microscopic droplets into the air, which can float one meter (3.2ft) above the WC.

Officials later found an unsealed pipe in one of the patient’s bathroom, which could have allowed the virus into her flat.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid19-toilet-lid-flush-faeces-155800451.html

Stop flushing the toilets!   :chuckle: (:) :P :o
And save big on your water bill.    :money: :chuckle: :thumbsup:

https://www.naturehills.com/dr-earth-bat-guano-fertilizer-7-3-1
Guano is good.    :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 03, 2020, 01:07:47 PM


Confederate,

You asked in another thread (can't find it at the moment) if I thought the coronavirus is a hoax. Depends on what you mean by hoax.

Of course, the virus is real. It remains to be seen if this is as serious as the world is making it out to be.

I'll say this, that stimulus bill they passed post haste is nothing more than a f^&king transfer of wealth to a very select few. Average Americans are getting it in the ass, I have no doubt about this.

4 months of unemployment benefits and $1200 worth of crumbs apparently are enough to pacify unsuspecting Americans into thinking their government gives a rats ass about them. They don't.

Your kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come.

Putting America's economic future in the hands of criminals like Steven Mnuchin makes my blood boil.  >:(. Yes, the same guy who foreclosed on 5.1 million Americans and bailed out the banks,

An 800-900 page document passes 96-0 in less time it takes to read the Cat in the Hat. GTFOH.

Well written!  tiphat

Sadly there is allot of truth in your words that will never be understood by the average American.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on April 03, 2020, 01:47:57 PM
Quote
Recent research found flushing a toilet releases up to 80,000 microscopic droplets into the air, which can float one meter (3.2ft) above the WC.

Officials later found an unsealed pipe in one of the patient’s bathroom, which could have allowed the virus into her flat.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid19-toilet-lid-flush-faeces-155800451.html

Stop flushing the toilets!   :chuckle: (:) :P :o
And save big on your water bill.    :money: :chuckle: :thumbsup:

https://www.naturehills.com/dr-earth-bat-guano-fertilizer-7-3-1
Guano is good.    :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :biggrin:

Reminds me of a fun old nursery rhyme from grade school: "If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down!"
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 03, 2020, 03:08:31 PM
Banks gonna BANKSTER...

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/millions-small-american-businesses-stunned-learn-they-are-not-eligible-government-bailout

It's the first day that America's small businesses can apply for the SBA's Paycheck Protection Program, i.e., the $350BN program that is part of the bigger $2 trillion bailout package designed to provide small businesses access to capital for payroll and other overhead costs to the tune of 2.5 months of average payroll and which must be accessed via an existing banking relationship - and the rollout is predictably a mess, with some banks such as BofA already accepting loans (which convert to grants if used exclusively for payrolls and business continuity purposes), while others like JPM delaying the roll out to 1pm; a third group of banks such as Wells Fargo has conspicuously failed to provide its rollout plans - perhaps it is scheming how to cross-sell bailout loans with auto insurance or engage in some other typically Wellsfargoian fraud.

$WFC will not be ready to take applications for #PaycheckProtectionPlan today. They’re doing all the can and testing constantly. When you and running you will have to have a checking account and be an online banking customer to qualify. No previous loan requirement.

But a recurring shock as millions of small business owners head to these bank websites to apply for the PPP funds is that contrary to the SBA's guidance that any small business with 500 or less employees can apply, going to lender portals shows that only a very narrow subset of America's millions in small businesses are be eligible.

In fact, only those companies that already have a lending relationship, i.e., an outstanding loan with a given bank are - at least as of this moment - able to apply for the rescue funds.

@WilfredFrost
Moynihan making clear on @SquawkStreet that small businesses should not only apply to their existing bank - but primarily to their existing LENDER. Just having a small business checking account will not suffice initially - you need to have borrowed from $BAC in recent past. https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1246075875856089088 …

Bank of America's Moynihan, on @CNBC now, says they've received 10,000 #PPPloan loan applications this morning.$BAC

Bank of America's website confirms as much, stating on its eligibility page that only "clients with a business lending and a business deposit relationship at Bank of America are eligible to apply for a Paycheck Protection Program through our bank." In other words, any business that only has a deposit account and no loan or business card is out of luck.

And the kicker, literally, for those BofA clients who would like to become eligible and open a business loan account, well it's too late: as the bank makes clear, this should have happened as of Feb 15.

To apply for the Paycheck Protection Program through our bank, you must have a pre-existing business lending and business deposit relationship with Bank of America, as of February 15, 2020. A Business Credit Card, line of credit or loan may be the lending product used.

Said otherwise, business who ran a clean balance sheet without debt are seen as riskier than businesses that carry loans, and are unduly penalized just because they never opened a loan with BofA.

JPMorgan is even more draconian in its selectivity of whom it will hand out Treasury-guaranteed money to. As the bank notes in its ironically-named "CARES" website, "You must have a Chase Business checking account as of February 15, 2020." Anyone who does not is straight out of luck.

And as countless other banks follow suit, the question becomes is this how the banks that were bailed out by ordinary Americans in 2008 will treat those same Americans when they need a rescue too? Alternatively, what happens to these banks when millions of small business fail and America's economy plunges into an even deeper depression. One final question: how is it logical for banks to only bailout those companies which already have debt and are by extension riskier, than to provide funds to their ordinary clients who only now, for the first time, need a helping hand.

We eagerly await Steven Mnuchin's answers to these questions
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 03, 2020, 03:41:35 PM


No, I’m suggesting first and foremost that healthy people should not be quarantined and that the economy should not be so fully shut down. That’s pure insanity and it shows that the human race has allowed the “elites” in the media and those controlling them to have insane excessive, illogical, unscientific control over our lives.

Quarantines are for gravely ill people, not for healthy people. It’s the damn media which should be quarantined and shut down!!


We have a problem with this virus in that we do not know who is healthy and who is not. To know that we would have to test everyone in the country about twice a week. Remember half of the people that have this disease never get tested but still transmit the disease to others. Until we are able to identify who has the disease we can not separate the healthy people from the un healthy ones. We just had aircraft carry with the virus on it.  The captain was unable to stop the spread of the disease because  he could not identify who had the disease until they have given it to someone else. None of the test to identify covid-19 will show positive until a number of days after the person has been infected.  They usually show no signs of the disease for more days while they are able to infect others. Some never show any sign of the disease.

The other trouble we have a large number of people do not take the disease seriously especially if they are young.

We will have to find away to control this disease without being so shut down. This is what I believe China is doing. I believe this disease is going to be with us for a while maybe a year. We are a going to have to get better at hygiene and learn to work and social distance at the same time.  We are going to have to learn to keep high risk people isolated enough to further lower there chances of getting this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 03, 2020, 03:57:23 PM
Quote
I am a medicinal chemist who has specialized in discovery and development of antiviral drugs for the past 30 years, and I have been actively working on coronaviruses for the past seven. I am among a number of researchers who are concerned that this drug has been given too much of a high priority before there is enough evidence to show it is indeed effective.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/small-trial-finds-hydroxychloroquine-not-124054137.html

Remember that the Spanish Flu virus in 1918 infections came in three waves before it went to sleep.   :Zzzzsleep: :evilgrin0002:

https://designyoutrust.com/2020/03/haunting-colorized-photos-reveal-the-devastation-caused-by-the-spanish-flu-which-killed-at-least-fifty-million/

In the words of the "Terminator":  "I'll be back".   (:) :duh: :o :scared0005: :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 03, 2020, 10:32:07 PM

Bad news. French study says hydroxychloroquine and a related medication, chloroquine doesn't work.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/small-trial-finds-hydroxychloroquine-not-124054137.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858?via%3Dihub

6 week old baby dies from virus

http://news.yahoo.com/6-week-old-connecticut-dies-123340671.html

Australia tells over a dozen cruise ships to go home.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/no-port-in-a-storm-australia-tells-virus-stricken-cruise-ships-to-go-home/ar-BB126RO0?ocid=spartanntp

Chris Cuomo lost 13 lbs in 3 days from COVID-19. He's going through some rough times. Read about his experience below as he tries to beat the virus at home.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/chris-cuomo-says-hes-lost-13-pounds-in-3-days-from-covid-19-symptoms/ar-BB126JV3?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 04, 2020, 03:25:16 AM
 In it's haste to get the country rolling again did China jump the gun? Here comes quarantine #2!

https://www.dailywire.com/news/china-begins-mass-quarantines-again-after-failing-to-stop-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR2ZB-8phoogVk9H8c_dG4OZWM-2PRVSWVsKCq12EddYXW9qwTulwgUwYyc

Communist China is implementing mass quarantines after the nation once again failed to contain the coronavirus outbreak that originated within its borders and has wrought havoc on the world
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 04, 2020, 03:26:14 AM
The cost of this virus may not be fully understood. Most of us think if you survive are get alright. That is often not the case.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/surviving-a-severe-case-of-coronavirus-may-be-just-the-start-of-recovery/ar-BB128f3j?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 04, 2020, 03:53:10 AM
 Maybe eating Miss Kitty and Fido weren't such good ideas.... Chinese city bans eating cats and dogs because of virus concerns

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-wildlife-idUSKBN21K0EW?taid=5e857d1f01cef40001c15b6e&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 The Chinese city of Shenzhen has banned the eating of dogs and cats as part of a wider clampdown on the wildlife trade since the emergence of the new coronavirus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 04, 2020, 05:45:51 AM
Maybe eating Miss Kitty and Fido weren't such good ideas.... Chinese city bans eating cats and dogs because of virus concerns

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-wildlife-idUSKBN21K0EW?taid=5e857d1f01cef40001c15b6e&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 The Chinese city of Shenzhen has banned the eating of dogs and cats as part of a wider clampdown on the wildlife trade since the emergence of the new coronavirus.

That’s probably PR for foreign news outlets. Shenzhen isn’t a city known for eating dogs. And I’ve not heard of cats being eaten at all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 04, 2020, 06:58:42 AM
Maybe eating Miss Kitty and Fido weren't such good ideas.... Chinese city bans eating cats and dogs because of virus concerns

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-wildlife-idUSKBN21K0EW?taid=5e857d1f01cef40001c15b6e&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 The Chinese city of Shenzhen has banned the eating of dogs and cats as part of a wider clampdown on the wildlife trade since the emergence of the new coronavirus.

That’s probably PR for foreign news outlets. Shenzhen isn’t a city known for eating dogs. And I’ve not heard of cats being eaten at all.

 You've been there in your travels then?

 Personally I wouldn't know, but about 10-15 years ago I watched a documentary I will never forget where the reporters went to a chinese market with a hidden camera where they were selling dogs and cats to eat. They had a few  in cages and took a cat out of one and smacked it over the head with a club and dropped it in a pot of scalding water for a minute then took it out pulled all the hair off it like you would do to pluck a chicken. So somewhere in China they eat them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 04, 2020, 08:13:07 AM
The cost of this virus may not be fully understood. Most of us think if you survive are get alright. That is often not the case.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/surviving-a-severe-case-of-coronavirus-may-be-just-the-start-of-recovery/ar-BB128f3j?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

If you had to have a ventilator during your corona treatment, there's a huge chance of scarring of your lung tissue causing you to have a new life-long affliction called 'COPD' or 'asthma' or something else.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 04, 2020, 09:00:03 AM
Maybe eating Miss Kitty and Fido weren't such good ideas.... Chinese city bans eating cats and dogs because of virus concerns

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-wildlife-idUSKBN21K0EW?taid=5e857d1f01cef40001c15b6e&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 The Chinese city of Shenzhen has banned the eating of dogs and cats as part of a wider clampdown on the wildlife trade since the emergence of the new coronavirus.

That’s probably PR for foreign news outlets. Shenzhen isn’t a city known for eating dogs. And I’ve not heard of cats being eaten at all.

 You've been there in your travels then?

Yes, it's between Guangzhou and Hong Kong. It's the electronic tech capital of China. A lot of younger people there, and the weird stuff is generally eaten by the older generations in more traditional and rural places. Dog isn't something you see on the menu in regular places anywhere in China I've been. There are specific dog restaurants frequented by those who eat them. It's a habit that is fading away. Like Tripe in the UK.

I'd suggest its a PR move by Shenzhen to show the west China is modernising, but thinking of the demographic there it wont impact anyone. Like for example banning Alligator meat or Kangaroo steaks in England. Who the hell eats it anyway? Nobody would care.

Edit: It would seem that cat is eaten in Guangdong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_meat) (one place I go). I've never heard of it and I'd suggest again its old folk.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 04, 2020, 09:37:11 AM


South Korea said Saturday it would extend social-distancing guidelines in place since January, and which were intensified in March, for at least another two weeks. Schools and major public facilities remain closed, and Seoul instructed residents to continue to avoid public gatherings.

The extensions followed recent moves by Singapore and Hong Kong to tighten their own controls, closing most offices and bars, respectively, as infection rates that once seemed under control continued to climb.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/new-york-death-toll-soars-global-coronavirus-cases-top-11-million/ar-BB129PeM?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 04, 2020, 10:22:37 AM
Time for the Americans to learn some truths about their Government and President.

Read this article........and make up your own mind!

(https://img.particlenews.com/image.php?type=thumbnail_1024x576&url=2O7Ir8_0OedySJC00)

How science finally caught up with Trump's
playbook – with millions of lives at stake
(https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/trump-coronavirus-science-analysis)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 04, 2020, 10:44:13 AM

TECH: Last Wednesday, we published the success story from Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, a board-certified family practitioner in New York, after he successfully treated 350 coronavirus patients with 100 percent success using a cocktail of drugs: hydroxychloroquine, in combination with azithromycin (Z-Pak), an antibiotic to treat secondary infections, and zinc sulfate.  Dr. Zelenko said he saw the symptom of shortness of breath resolved within four to six hours after treatment.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/31/dr-vladimir-zelinko-has-699-cv19-cures-with-hq-z-pak-zinc/

Now, Dr. Zelenko provides updates on the treatment after he successfully treated 699 COVID-19 patients in New York. In an exclusive interview with former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, Dr. Vladmir Zelenko shares the results of his latest study, which showed that out of his 699 patients treated, zero patients died, zero patients intubated, and four hospitalizations.

Dr. Zelenko said the whole treatment costs only $20 over a period of 5 days with 100% success. He defines success as “Not to die.” Dr. Zelenko first posted his Facebook video message last week calling on President Trump to “advise the country that they should be taking this medication.”

There are many other success stories about hydroxychloroquine across the country. Last week, Dr. William Grace, an oncologist at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, said they’ve not had a single death in their hospital because of  hydroxychloroquine. “Thanks to hydroxychloroquine, we have not had a death in our hospital,’ Dr. Grace said.

Also, in a study conducted by the National Institute of Health (NIH) also confirmed some of Dr. Dr. Zelenko’s findings. The study by NIH showed that Zinc supplementation decreases the morbidity of lower respiratory tract infection in pediatric patients in the developing world. A second study also conducted by NIH titled: “In Vitro Antiviral Activity and Projection of Optimized Dosing Design of Hydroxychloroquine for the Treatment of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),” also showed hydroxychloroquine to be more potent in killing the virus off in vitro (in the test tube and not in the body).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 10:59:21 AM
The cost of this virus may not be fully understood. Most of us think if you survive are get alright. That is often not the case.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/surviving-a-severe-case-of-coronavirus-may-be-just-the-start-of-recovery/ar-BB128f3j?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

If you had to have a ventilator during your corona treatment, there's a huge chance of scarring of your lung tissue causing you to have a new life-long affliction called 'COPD' or 'asthma' or something else.

People in critical condition tend to create so much antibodies that it attacks everything, including living tissue. Some people who survive COVID-19 will have lungs that look like a honeycomb and they will need to be on oxygen bottles the rest of their lives which is a high medical cost that we all have to pay for.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 04, 2020, 11:40:57 AM
Time for the Americans to learn some truths about their Government and President.

Read this article........and make up your own mind!

(https://img.particlenews.com/image.php?type=thumbnail_1024x576&url=2O7Ir8_0OedySJC00)

How science finally caught up with Trump's
playbook – with millions of lives at stake
(https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/trump-coronavirus-science-analysis)

 tiphat


If we are so bad how come Europe is doing so much worse. You have to take Italy, Span, Germany, France and the Uk to have the population size of the USA. Add up the deaths in all these country and see how much better the USA is doing. Not only that if you consider the odd of a  person getting the disease and/or dying of the disease you odds are better you will not get it or die in USA than UK. So why do you spend so much time worrying about Trump when you have a bigger problem on your side of the pond.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 12:09:34 PM
If we are so bad how come Europe is doing so much worse. You have to take Italy, Span, Germany, France and the Uk to have the population size of the USA. Add up the deaths in all these country and see how much better the USA is doing. Not only that if you consider the odd of a  person getting the disease and/or dying of the disease you odds are better you will not get it or die in USA than UK. So why do you spend so much time worrying about Trump when you have a bigger problem on your side of the pond.


There are a lot of people in this world who won't criticize their leaders who do a worse job than Trump simply because they like their leaders politics. Doesn't make sense but it is what it is. Their leaders could ruin the economy and lose a war and they'd still vote for their leaders as long as they get their freebies from social programs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 04, 2020, 12:40:06 PM
Thousands of foreign prostitutes working in Germany have been made homeless after brothels closed due to the coronavirus outbreak and borders snapped shut, making it difficult for them to return home.

the estimated 100,000 to 200,000 prostitutes in Germany about 80% are foreign, mainly from Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/sex-workers-stranded-germany-coronavirus-080552453.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 04, 2020, 01:26:10 PM
Thousands of foreign prostitutes working in Germany have been made homeless after brothels closed due to the coronavirus outbreak and borders snapped shut, making it difficult for them to return home.

the estimated 100,000 to 200,000 prostitutes in Germany about 80% are foreign, mainly from Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/sex-workers-stranded-germany-coronavirus-080552453.html

Thats the wonders of the EU for you.. :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 04, 2020, 01:36:39 PM
Thousands of foreign prostitutes working in Germany have been made homeless after brothels closed due to the coronavirus outbreak and borders snapped shut, making it difficult for them to return home.

the estimated 100,000 to 200,000 prostitutes in Germany about 80% are foreign, mainly from Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, and Ukraine.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/sex-workers-stranded-germany-coronavirus-080552453.html

Thats the wonders of the EU for you.. :thumbsup:

Sort gives a new slant on the expression ‘street girls’.

But the reality is as Steve indicates how poor the European response is to the pandemic that originated in Wuhan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 04, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
Time for the Americans to learn some truths about their Government and President.

Read this article........and make up your own mind!

(https://img.particlenews.com/image.php?type=thumbnail_1024x576&url=2O7Ir8_0OedySJC00)

How science finally caught up with Trump's
playbook – with millions of lives at stake
(https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/trump-coronavirus-science-analysis)

 tiphat


If we are so bad how come Europe is doing so much worse. You have to take Italy, Span, Germany, France and the Uk to have the population size of the USA. Add up the deaths in all these country and see how much better the USA is doing. Not only that if you consider the odd of a  person getting the disease and/or dying of the disease you odds are better you will not get it or die in USA than UK. So why do you spend so much time worrying about Trump when you have a bigger problem on your side of the pond.

I made no comments and you are brainwashed, blind and can't make any intelligent, objective or critical comments. I suggest take the blinds off and try to see things objectively for your sake not mine.

As about the UK, I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

 tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 04, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 04, 2020, 02:44:24 PM
Quote
And those saved lives are worth $8 trillion to the U.S. economy.

And humans are worth a lot more than the sum of their lifetime wages.

That figure stems, in part, from the high value Americans place on their lives, a value that goes well beyond their lifetime wages, their performance at work or their contributions to the tax system.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/moderate-social-distancing-yields-dollar8-trillion-in-economic-benefits-study-finds/ar-BB11UjWj

https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/2020-26/

 :money:

Quote
"If they don't come to me, they'll turn to you,”

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/939qyz/china-arrested-a-whistleblower-who-shot-viral-video-of-coronavirus-corpses-in-wuhan

 :censored: :reading:

Quote
“Everybody was partying, schools and universities were out, and they were celebrating Carnival and were getting ready for Holy Week,” Pedro Zavala, a paramedic in the nearby city of Machala, told the Herald. “People were on the beaches and on the streets, everywhere.”
:party0031:

Quote
“Every day it’s getting worse,” Diaz said. “We see them burning bodies on the street. Nobody is picking them up at the houses. … The only option is to leave their loved ones on the street or at the hospital [if they died there.”]

Quote
“If you see this video, Mr. President, please, where are they? … They told me they were coming, and it was a lie,” Orellana sobbed into a purple face mask. “I’m only asking for you to help him die with dignity. Please. Don’t leave him here, thrown on the ground.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/03/ecuador-coronavirus-bodies/

 :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 04, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Wiz go live on a greek island and milk some goats for feta cheese
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 04, 2020, 04:08:17 PM
Quote
Mao once said, “Everything under heaven is in utter chaos, the situation is excellent.”

It would look like a repeat of the Marshall Plan and the beginning of the American world order after the ravages of World War II. Indonesia, South Asia, and even Russia might be of special interest in such a scenario.

To put it more bluntly: There was always an argument that the existing world order cannot change because only a momentous war has done that in the past and world wars have become impossible. But in pandemics — and soon in climate change — we may have found two functional equivalents of war.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-china-seeks-increase-geopolitical-power/

Here is an article that is close to LoyalMan's heart.   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 04, 2020, 05:22:41 PM
I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?

Arthur Daley err Manny, it is not in my character to spread Fake news or making insulting racist remarks, unlike you.

Believing in Democracy and socialistic ideas….it is not a crime; in contrast to a fascist/Capitalist ideology you are following in your efforts to join the high society but you know that it’s a pie in the sky, “Jumping Jack”!

May I remind you that after the WWII it was the Labour Government that created the NHS and the working class in the UK, finally had free healthcare. May I remind you that your Idol, Margaret Thatcher imported the Neo Liberal Ideology from USA and on the way she sold everything the state owned. Actually it was the conservative ex PM Macmillan who said that she was selling the silver of the house.

As you very well know…..I arrived Legally in the UK 50 Years ago, Worked and paid my taxes and also acquired my British Nationality and today I am a pensioner in this country where part of my family also is living. I visit my Birth country frequently as it’s only a 3 hours away flight.

Like it or lamp it, I have the same rights in this country, like you have and appreciate the NHS for which I have paid my taxes. If you like paying Private insurance to be part of the Tory Elite……Good luck…. I don’t!

 tiphat

PS: I see Coronavirus is also affecting your hobby........ It is very noticeable that your friend/protegee, clown of the Board, is dominating every post to keep the post count up!

I don't think there are many people who buy books today, to learn how to go to Russia to find a Mail order Hot Kova...(Russian wife).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 04, 2020, 08:50:55 PM
Quote
“It’s awful, because we know we’re definitely spreading it, seat to seat, city to city, person to person, hotel to hotel,”


“Collateral damage, acceptable casualties,”

But the pandemic moved even quicker, rapidly migrating from international to domestic flights. “It overtook the airline industry so fast it was shocking.”


"It's not worth it," she said between deep breaths. "Forget your mortgage, forget your bills. Stay home."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/definitely-spreading-flight-attendants-fear-220611537.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/flying-during-coronavirus-scary-flight-130001959.html

Global travel has significantly facilitated the spread of the virus.  These travelers will not stop until the "grim reaper" comes knocking on their door.   :duh: :GRAVE:   :travel: :plane:

I've been to about 40 of the 50 states (traveling mostly before this millennium) and overseas.  After the SARS outbreak, I did not travel anywhere for about a decade.  For the past few years, I resumed traveling, but maybe now is the time again for another hiatus.  :biggrin: ??? :-\

Quote
SARS -No treatment exists except supportive care.
    :bow: :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 05, 2020, 02:24:55 AM
From one of DCGuy's links:

Quote
Considered "essential critical infrastructure workers" by the U.S. government, America's roughly 119,000 flight attendants are exempt from CDC guidelines requiring them to self-quarantine after traveling to high-risk areas or potential exposure. Even when passengers are routinely screened or tested at airports, the attendants say they are not. While airlines are not making the number of flight crew workers who have tested positive for the virus public, union representatives say based on self-reported numbers they are already in the hundreds, and they expect them to be higher.

That's lunacy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 05, 2020, 03:00:41 AM
I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?
Indeed, how ungrateful of an immigrant like Wiz, having had the opportunity of a better life here after abandoning his 3rd world shithole Greek Paradise, to complain about this country.
It’s noticeable he isn’t rushing back to that immigrant overrunGreek Paradise to enjoy his retirement and avail of the world class health facilities and top notch pension payouts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 05, 2020, 03:49:32 AM

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?

Before another thread gets personal ... I think our 'leader' needs to wake up

The Tories just became the most socialist govt since Attlee ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 05, 2020, 05:11:20 AM
I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?
Indeed, how ungrateful of an immigrant like Wiz, having had the opportunity of a better life here after abandoning his 3rd world shithole Greek Paradise, to complain about this country.
It’s noticeable he isn’t rushing back to that immigrant overrunGreek Paradise to enjoy his retirement and avail of the world class health facilities and top notch pension payouts.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 05, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?
Indeed, how ungrateful of an immigrant like Wiz, having had the opportunity of a better life here after abandoning his 3rd world shithole Greek Paradise, to complain about this country.
It’s noticeable he isn’t rushing back to that immigrant overrunGreek Paradise to enjoy his retirement and avail of the world class health facilities and top notch pension payouts.

(Attachment Link)
Dear Wiz, I refer you to my signature line which will give you the current information about yourself.  tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 05, 2020, 06:54:40 AM
I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

All fake news from a Socialist, a Socialist who finds the UK better than his home country or his wife's country.

How ungrateful to insult your adopted nation.

Can we assume you have private healthcare?
Indeed, how ungrateful of an immigrant like Wiz, having had the opportunity of a better life here after abandoning his 3rd world shithole Greek Paradise, to complain about this country.
It’s noticeable he isn’t rushing back to that immigrant overrunGreek Paradise to enjoy his retirement and avail of the world class health facilities and top notch pension payouts.

Dear Wiz, I refer you to my signature line which will give you the current information about yourself.  tiphat
(Attachment Link)

[This post did not meet our community standards]
Hmmm. Obviously you don’t understand ‘context’. Not surprising given that English is a ‘learned’ language for you.
Once an immigrant, always an immigrant.

As for the plagiarised sh**e you post, the less said about it, the better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 05, 2020, 07:47:28 AM
[This post did not meet our community standards]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 05, 2020, 09:18:55 AM

We now have loonies setting fire to 5G transmission sites   WHY ? .. Because they 'lower immunity'

Some folks are WAY too bored

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52172570 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52172570)

"We have received several reports of criminal damage to phone masts and abuse of telecoms engineers apparently inspired by crackpot conspiracy theories circulating online," a spokeswoman for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport told the BBC."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 05, 2020, 10:32:15 AM

If we are so bad how come Europe is doing so much worse. You have to take Italy, Span, Germany, France and the Uk to have the population size of the USA. Add up the deaths in all these country and see how much better the USA is doing. Not only that if you consider the odd of a  person getting the disease and/or dying of the disease you odds are better you will not get it or die in USA than UK. So why do you spend so much time worrying about Trump when you have a bigger problem on your side of the pond.

I made no comments and you are brainwashed, blind and can't make any intelligent, objective or critical comments. I suggest take the blinds off and try to see things objectively for your sake not mine.

As about the UK, I have already stated that the party in power for the past 10 + years, the Conservatives, have neglected our NHS and were preparing it for privatisation ......and now....everyday we listen to their announcements.......it's getting worse and worse. Soon we will have completely autocratic, undemocratic system with an impoverished economy and people.

 tiphat

Health care has some really nice benefits but it cuts both ways. People retire at about the same age but then live longer requiring the government to pay more money for none productive people. To make matter worse we have a baby boomers retiring where we have less workers per person retiring. The science has come up with more treatments that are very expensive making health care per person much higher. Few if any governments on earth can afford health care long term.

Then we are coming up with more technology where we need less people to do many jobs. The days of factories hiring ten of thousands of people are coming to an end.  Here I the USA starting next year we will start having maybe two thousands driverless trucks on the highways. The end goal is to put millions of truck drivers out of work. Less work means less tax base.

This virus is adding to this already disaster in the making. It will cause countries to be far more indebt and will leave us with more people on disability. We are looking at a lower standard of living that will exist in most of the world coming soon. A conservative government can not fix it but a liberal government will not make it better.

Governments will try to fix this by printing money. But there is a limit to this which we maybe seeing soon. Even gold has limited value and it is often a inflation hedge but far more of it exist than is needed. There is no reason gold has to be expensive. You can't eat it, can not drive it or live in it. It just sits there and looks shinny. If no one needs it, why is it expensive? Just because it always has been?

I think we are on the verge of a commercial real estate disaster. I believe a lot of stores and restaurants will never reopen. Foreign owners will want to sell.  In all likelihood we will likely we will see the end of cheap air fare where so many people fly. Some one is going to have to pay for all of these grounded airplanes.

Someone here was saying that maybe Span and Italy may not want to be in the EU any longer because they did not get any help in their time of need. Will this be the end of the Euro and the union. I can see the possibility. Will they even be able to meet the requirements and debt levels need to be in the union?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 05, 2020, 11:16:48 AM
It affected this Russian with tragic consequences - only a hand-full of days into their quarantine


He was 'defending' himself from 'noisy neighbours'..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52173341  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52173341)

..with his shot-gun..


Five shot dead in Russia for 'talking loudly'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 05, 2020, 01:18:06 PM
..with his shot-gun..

Just another example of ms dishonesty.

The victims were shot using a hunting gun. While shotguns are available in the former Soviet  Union they are not as popular as in North America.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on April 05, 2020, 03:03:53 PM
British PM Boris Johnston admitted to hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 05, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
British PM Boris Johnston admitted to hospital.

10 days of symptoms, not much better, admitted for routine tests.

He'll be fine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52177125

His pregnant girlfriend has it as well. She shook it off after about seven days.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 05, 2020, 04:16:04 PM
More species jumping this time not more bats...  The Bronx Zoo NYC reports a Tiger has tested positive for Corona Virus Covid19... Several other tigers and lions coughing.

Curious how you put a tiger on a ventilator?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 05, 2020, 04:31:54 PM
More species jumping this time not more bats...  The Bronx Zoo NYC reports a Tiger has tested positive for Corona Virus Covid19... Several other tigers and lions coughing.

Curious how you put a tiger on a ventilator?

I’d suggest the process begins with a tranquilliser dart.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 05, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
More species jumping this time not more bats...  The Bronx Zoo NYC reports a Tiger has tested positive for Corona Virus Covid19... Several other tigers and lions coughing.

Curious how you put a tiger on a ventilator?

This is actually very troubling. I was reading about the tiger also. It seems a number of zoo animals might have it. But what this is saying the disease can travel from animal to animal very easily. That would mean even if we finally kill it in humans it could still be in other species, mutate and make the jump back to humans in the future as a new disease. Maybe cattle, chickens, horses or other common animals might be the new carriers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 08:47:31 PM
British PM Boris Johnston admitted to hospital.

10 days of symptoms, not much better, admitted for routine tests.

He’ll be fine.


I hope he'll be find but nobody should be going to the hospital unless they have a serious or critical condition. The fact his own personal doctor can't keep things under control in Boris's home sounds bad to me. I've read stories where people who had mild symptoms early died a few days later after their condition rapidly deteriorated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 05, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
More species jumping this time not more bats...  The Bronx Zoo NYC reports a Tiger has tested positive for Corona Virus Covid19... Several other tigers and lions coughing.

Curious how you put a tiger on a ventilator?

Probably need to anesthetize the animal and hook up the equipment after you intubate the animal.  You continue to monitor the animal's pulmonary functions and remove the equipment after it recovers.  Intubation involves cutting into the throat region and inserting an endotracheal tube inside the wind pipe.  During respiration, a lot of mucus can clog the windpipe, so you have to suction it out with a catheter periodically 24/7.  You may also need to include a nebulizer to administer drugs like albuterol to help with the breathing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 05, 2020, 09:34:27 PM
More species jumping this time not more bats...  The Bronx Zoo NYC reports a Tiger has tested positive for Corona Virus Covid19... Several other tigers and lions coughing.

Curious how you put a tiger on a ventilator?

This is actually very troubling. I was reading about the tiger also. It seems a number of zoo animals might have it. But what this is saying the disease can travel from animal to animal very easily. That would mean even if we finally kill it in humans it could still be in other species, mutate and make the jump back to humans in the future as a new disease. Maybe cattle, chickens, horses or other common animals might be the new carriers.

Many of the animals that pass viruses to humans are those that we consume.  Avian, swine, bovine, lepus, etc.  Plant to human transmission is extremely rare.  Seafood could also have viruses, but have not heard of pandemics originating from them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 05, 2020, 09:40:48 PM
Quote
The bulk of the passengers, who were of multiple nationalities, arrived in January, at airports in Los Angeles; San Francisco; New York; Chicago; Seattle; Newark, New Jersey; and Detroit. Thousands of them flew directly from Wuhan, the center of the coronavirus outbreak, as American public health officials were only beginning to assess the risks to the United States.

Health screening began in mid-January, but only for a number of travelers who had been in Wuhan and only at the airports in Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. By that time, about 4,000 people had already entered the United States directly from Wuhan, according to VariFlight, an aviation data company based in China. The measures were expanded to all passengers from China two weeks later.

At the time, the World Health Organization was not recommending travel restrictions, Chinese officials rebuffed them and some scientists questioned whether curtailing travel would do any good.

“He hands me my passport and forms and says, ‘Oh, by the way, you haven’t been to Wuhan, have you?’” Jurinka said. “And then he says, ‘You don’t have a fever, right?’”

Like others, he left the airport with a card that recommended two weeks of self-quarantine and a promise that someone would call to check up on him. He said he never got a call.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/430-000-people-traveled-china-145937459.html

Leaders will act the same way as with volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, and hurricanes.  We will deal with it after tangible effects are felt.   :duh: (:) :P :Zzzzsleep:

On my flight from Seattle last year, it was to connect through Denver (which was my original transfer city), but bad weather at Denver cancelled my flight.  It ended up taking off anyway and bypassed Denver and proceeded to its final destination, New Orleans.   :whist11: :plane:

Quote
He once said you're more likely to die after being "hit by an asteroid" than the highly-contagious virus. On Saturday, he drastically changed his tune.

"My early comments about equating coronavirus with influenza were wrong. They were incorrect," Dr. Drew said on Saturday, referring to his consistent comments from February and March. "I was part of a chorus that was saying that, and we were wrong. And I want to apologize for that."


https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/dr-drew-apologizes-was-wrong-about-coronavirus-threat/ar-BB12cbT1

A day late and a dollar short.   :duh: :Zzzzsleep: :biggrin: >:( :censored:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 05, 2020, 11:14:24 PM

I have very good news to report. Vietnam and Laos are tied with North Korea for zero deaths. Although all three nations border China, they are doing a fabulous job controlling the virus. They all have Communist governments. If only we had Communist governments, we'd be safe from the virus too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 12:09:29 AM



I have very good news to report. Vietnam and Laos are tied with North Korea for zero deaths. Although all three nations border China, they are doing a fabulous job controlling the virus. They all have Communist governments. If only we had Communist governments, we'd be safe from the virus too.



..or one could wish to be ruled by dictatorships..

THEY have no deaths either .. Syria, Belarus, Turkmenistan

OR

nations where 'leaders' tell their people this is nothing to worry about ..

 “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear”
On February 28, Trump said that coronavirus will “disappear” like a “miracle” while speaking at a press conference for his coronavirus task force. On Tuesday, he told reporters on Capitol Hill that coronavirus “will go away.” In late February, he speculated that warm weather would kill the virus and stop its spread. None of these statements are backed by science or infectious disease experts within his own administration"

Thank you, BillyB for drawing attention to those who tell us 'good news' ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 06, 2020, 05:39:42 AM
Curious the UK line of succession if BoJo winds up on a ventilator or a coma?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 05:50:33 AM
Curious the UK line of succession if BoJo winds up on a ventilator or a coma?

Deputy PM takes over ... Dominic Rabb ..


'takes over' might be more accurate
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on April 06, 2020, 06:03:36 AM
Curious the UK line of succession if BoJo winds up on a ventilator or a coma?
It’s quite clear who will take charge if the PM is incapacitated.
Dominic Raab, as 1st Secretary of State .
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 06, 2020, 06:37:35 AM
More pumping and dumping by Chintzy Chinese predatory crapitalists...

https://www.breitbart.com/news/china-says-it-has-sold-nearly-four-billion-masks-abroad/

China has exported 3.86 billion masks, 37.5 million pieces of protective clothing, 16,000 ventilators and 2.84 million COVID-19 testing kits since March 1, customs official Jin Hai said, with orders to more than 50 countries.

She added the country’s medical supply exports were valued at 10.2 billion yuan ($1.4 billion).

However numerous nations — including the Netherlands, the Philippines, Croatia, Turkey and Spain — have complained about substandard or faulty medical products shipped from China.


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 06, 2020, 08:13:39 AM
Given the circumstances, needy western buyers trying to buy the last roll of toilet paper on the shelf, there's a load of substandard tat flooded onto the market. In response, the Chinese government has now set up a certification scheme to validate the kinds of goods being purchased by the unknowing and unwary.

A the same time, some complaints were related to goods not being used for the purpose intended. Several countries have purchased antibody tests for Covid-19 and then moaned when they tried to deploy them as antigen tests - a purpose for which they are not designed.

Complicating the last issue is that the antibody tests, on the whole, are not very good at the moment. That's a matter causing some delay in the UK where self-administered blood tests are a main plank of the Covid-19 testing strategy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 09:27:37 AM
Given the circumstances, needy western buyers trying to buy the last roll of toilet paper on the shelf, there's a load of substandard tat flooded onto the market. In response, the Chinese government has now set up a certification scheme to validate the kinds of goods being purchased by the unknowing and unwary.

A the same time, some complaints were related to goods not being used for the purpose intended. Several countries have purchased antibody tests for Covid-19 and then moaned when they tried to deploy them as antigen tests - a purpose for which they are not designed.

Complicating the last issue is that the antibody tests, on the whole, are not very good at the moment. That's a matter causing some delay in the UK where self-administered blood tests are a main plank of the Covid-19 testing strategy.

Testing positive for Coronavirus is meaningless.(1)

What’s meaningful is if they have accompanying disease symptoms. Coronavirus’s have been around for years yet the World economy wasn’t shut down.

What’s caused this outbreak to be worse? As I previously mentioned the rollout of 5G is highly suspect as contributing to this being rapidly worse.

Imagine you’re fighting this Corona or other flu in the past. Your body has the energy and time to fight it and get well without being bombarded with extremely harmful high amounts of radiation.

Before you or Moldy poo poos the idea, ask yourself, have the long term or even short term effects of 5G been studied properly?

Did the government allow citizens and Doctors and Scientists time to comment on it in a publicized debate? (2)

And when I say Doctors I include Naturpathic Doctors and other non-traditional healers.

Just as Manny has stated that the World needs to break free of the tyranny of only the USA forcing its power on the rest of the World thru our foreign policy and have multiple contributors to how the World operates, modern medicine must give up its monopoly on healthcare.

Each neighborhood should be allowed to decide if they wish to accept 5G, not a central and all too powerful government, which is too highly controlled by Corporations with highly suspect morals.


1.

“In infectiology – founded by Robert Koch himself – a traditional distinction is made between infection and disease. An illness requires a clinical manifestation. [1] Therefore, only patients with symptoms such as fever or cough should be included in the statistics as new cases.

In other words, a new infection – as measured by the COVID-19 test – does not necessarily mean that we are dealing with a newly ill patient who needs a hospital bed. However, it is currently assumed that five percent of all infected people become seriously ill and require ventilation. Projections based on this estimate suggest that the healthcare system could be overburdened.”

Dr Bakhdi Emeritus Professor, Germany.

2.

Medical Doctors and Scientist from 42 nations call for delaying 5G.


*This video includes testimony of Doctor Rina Bray MD Canada and other mainstream Doctors and Scientists. As I mentioned above I believe a public debate should include Naturpathic Doctors and other alternative healers.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 10:08:05 AM


Medical Doctors and Scientist from 42 nations call for delaying 5G.


I'm 'sorry' Cornfed, but your ability to find THE most BOLLOX conspiracy theories knows no bounds


https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/06/5g_coronavirus_theory_debunked/ (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/06/5g_coronavirus_theory_debunked/)



Minister slams 5G coronavirus conspiracy theories as 'dangerous nonsense' after phone towers torched in UK


MUPPETS have tried to burn down abut 20 in the UK and the govt has asked FB, Instagram, YouTube et al to block the 'tin foil brigade' from their need to be useful idiots ... 

"The 5G story is complete and utter rubbish, it's nonsense, it's the worst kind of fake news," he said. "The reality is that the mobile phone networks are absolutely critical to all of us, particularly in a time when we are asking people to stay at home and to not see relatives and friends.

"In particular, those are also the phone networks that are used by our emergency services and our health workers and I'm absolutely outraged absolutely disgusted that people would be taking action against the very infrastructure that we need to respond to this health emergency.

"It is absolute and utter rubbish, and I can't condemn it in stronger terms than that."



In Cornfeds' video SOME MD's are asking for 5G roll out to be delayed and they'll ( rightly) be ignored as the sites are not irradiating humans in remotely dangerous 'dosages' and I'd feel happier using 5G than the oldest 2G kit - which can travel for miles further and broadcast as higher strengths




Seriously, for those who ARE objective:

mmWave (the frequency 5G uses )has been around for YEARS .. It's on those funny tower you see that send point to point mwave links to cellular tower that don't have data connections ... they look like saucepans covered with a tight drum skin ?

Getting scanned at an airport ...  Likely by mmWave

Done by the police for speeding .... ? Possible mmWave


The transmitters  for cell sites are not as powerful emitters as 2/3/4G and the signal attenuates quickly in non line of sight or dampness ( rain / fog) - hence there'll be more of 'em

ANYBODY falling for this tosh needs to be sectioned under their nation's equiv of our mental health act - for their own health or safety are at risk, let alone to protecting other people.

Turn off your Wifi,  your mobile phone and block terrestrial and satellite TV signals from getting to you, Cornfed ... Don't worry about a mask .. YOU need a tin helmet, just like the guy below..


(https://regmedia.co.uk/2020/04/06/swivel_eyed_loon_in_tinfoil_hat.jpg?x=442&y=293&crop=1)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 06, 2020, 10:24:37 AM
Such a lot of words that simply say 'I didn't understand what I read'!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 10:56:47 AM
Such a lot of words that simply say 'I didn't understand what I read'!

He doesn’t read and comprehend anything from intelligent people at all.

ALL of his posts belong in the blah blah thread, with the rest of his BULLOX. Inadequate moderation of the MoldyTurd virus as usual.

I posted a video of mainstream medial doctors and scientists, experts, calling for a delay. He responds with Corporate paid disinformation from non-expert shills.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on April 06, 2020, 11:00:58 AM
Money doesn't talk; it SCREAMS!

The stock market is telling you that there are better days coming soon in the future.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 11:22:06 AM
How Coronavirus death figures have been manipulated. Article features an expert Pathologist.

We often see a ratio expressed: deaths, as a proportion of cases. The figure is taken as a sign of how lethal Covid-19 is, but the ratios vary wildly. In the US, 1.8 per cent (2,191 deaths in 124,686 confirmed cases), Italy 10.8 per cent, Spain 8.2 per cent, Germany 0.8 per cent, France 6.1 per cent, UK 6.0 per cent. A fifteen-fold difference in death rate for the same disease seems odd amongst such similar countries: all developed, all with good healthcare systems. All tackling the same disease.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-to-understand-and-report-figures-for-covid-19-deaths-
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 11:45:26 AM
The Coronavirus HOAX, simply explained.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 11:50:58 AM
The same boy dies over and over, then dies as a little girl.

And,

Why is this so different? Or is it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 12:06:26 PM
Such a lot of words that simply say 'I didn't understand what I read'!

I am not sure if you're 'passing judgement' on my post re busting Cornfed's latest 'conspiracy theory'..

IF so, I missed the valid 'riposte' ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 12:24:57 PM
How Coronavirus death figures have been manipulated. Article features an expert Pathologist.

We often see a ratio expressed: deaths, as a proportion of cases. The figure is taken as a sign of how lethal Covid-19 is, but the ratios vary wildly. In the US, 1.8 per cent (2,191 deaths in 124,686 confirmed cases), Italy 10.8 per cent, Spain 8.2 per cent, Germany 0.8 per cent, France 6.1 per cent, UK 6.0 per cent. A fifteen-fold difference in death rate for the same disease seems odd amongst such similar countries: all developed, all with good healthcare systems. All tackling the same disease.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-to-understand-and-report-figures-for-covid-19-deaths-

Sighs,

No matter how good a healthcare system is, when it is overloaded locally as in, say, N.Italy / Madrid folks who might otherwise survive are denied help and their is not been enough staff ventilators to cope ..

As always ... Cornfed looks for a conspiracy when the simplest answer is ...there's just a failure to cope ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
The same boy dies over and over, then dies as a little girl.

And,

Why is this so different? Or is it?

Because the journals are lazy or the social media poster ? 

Vitor Godina, from Porto


(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/1k4HcbTbH85XNtNNXV_kJODX5-s=/620x368/smart/filters:quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-syd-prod-nzme.s3.amazonaws.com/public/OWHOHTLXKRC2LEKLZBZELARGZY.jpg)

I'm not aware anyone has posted a ( correct ) photo of Ismail or the Belgian girl

Do you SERIOUSLY doubt they died ?

Do you SERIOUSLY think they didn't died of the virus or complications from same ..?





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
Dr. Shiva, PHD Graduate at Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Biological Engineering, explains how the lame stream “media” is using fear-mongering to silence dissent.

(No Moldy you are not a graduate of MIT in Biological Engineering, therefore your incessant trolling isn’t needed in response to this post. Look for Dr. Shiva and post your uneducated tripe there)


             
*Who is Dr Anthony Fauci? Who does he really represent? Clearly NOT American citizens. He represents WHO which is controlled by the Communist Party of China. He represents big Pharmaceutical Corporations. He represents Bill Gates, an investor in big Pharma. And he represents the Clinton Initiative.

Danger Will Rodgers!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 06, 2020, 01:36:11 PM
Breaking news - Boris Johnson has just been moved into intensive care.

All a bit worrying.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on April 06, 2020, 01:42:52 PM
Breaking news - Boris Johnson has just been moved into intensive care.

All a bit worrying.

Now see I still can't make up my mind... media sensation or serious problem? This'll be the test. If Boris comes out fine in a couple of days, media sensation. If he dies, serious problem.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 01:56:57 PM
Breaking news - Boris Johnson has just been moved into intensive care.

All a bit worrying.

Now see I still can't make up my mind... media sensation or serious problem? This'll be the test. If Boris comes out fine in a couple of days, media sensation. If he dies, serious problem.

This is absolutely not the test, don’t be silly like MoldyTurd.

There’s simply no way for an average person to judge this, based on one death.

Read Dr. Shiva, MIT graduate. Read Dr. Bhakdi, Professor Emeritus, Germany. Do not under any circumstances trust the MSM. Forget it. They ceased being real journalists decades ago. They are highly paid corporate shills.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 06, 2020, 02:01:19 PM
Breaking news - Boris Johnson has just been moved into intensive care.

All a bit worrying.

Now see I still can't make up my mind... media sensation or serious problem? This'll be the test. If Boris comes out fine in a couple of days, media sensation. If he dies, serious problem.

Sky news is saying that it’s precautionary should his condition worsen and he’s still conscious. Perhaps it’s the PM’s priority care but if he gets much worse, it’ll be a wake up call for the country.

If he were to snuff it then nobody’s safe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on April 06, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
This is absolutely not the test, don’t be silly like MoldyTurd.

There’s simply no way for an average person to judge this, based on one death.

Read Dr. Shiva, MIT graduate. Read Dr. Bhakdi, Professor Emeritus, Germany. Do not under any circumstances trust the MSM. Forget it. They ceased being real journalists decades ago. They are highly paid corporate shills.

I dunno Confederate, I would say that if an otherwise healthy PM bites the dust, that makes it a pretty serious situation (well, at least for the UK).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 06, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
Quote
In the rush to lock down nations and, as a result, crater their economies, no one has addressed this simple yet critical question: How do we know social-isolation controls actually work? And even if they do work for some infectious epidemics, do they work for COVID-19? And even if they work for this novel coronavirus, do they have to be implemented by a certain point in the epidemic? Or are they locking down the barn door after the horses are long gone?

The problem with lockdowns is that “you tire the system out,” Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, told the Guardian. “You can’t keep a lockdown going for months — it’s impossible.” He told Britain’s Daily Mail: “We can’t kill all our services. And unemployed people are a great threat to public health. It’s a factor you need to think about.”

If social isolation worked, wouldn’t Sweden, a Nordic country of 10.1 million people, be seeing the number of COVID-19 cases skyrocket into the tens of thousands, blowing past the numbers in Italy or New York City? As of today, there are 401 reported COVID-19 deaths in Sweden.

Moreover, there hasn’t been a single pediatric ICU case or death in Sweden — so much for the benefits of shutting down schools everywhere else.

Nature’s got this one, folks. We’ve been coping with new viruses for untold generations. The best way is to allow the young and healthy — those for whom the virus is rarely fatal — to develop antibodies and herd immunity to protect the frail and sick. As time passes, it will become clearer that social-isolation measures like those in Switzerland and Norway accomplish very little in terms of reducing fatalities or disease, though they crater local and national economies — increasing misery, pain, death, and disease from other causes as people’s lives are upended and futures are destroyed.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/

Note that the other countries may be unable to follow through with how Sweden is handling the pandemic.

 :-\
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 06, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
Money doesn't talk; it SCREAMS!

The stock market is telling you that there are better days coming soon in the future.

Dow up 1600 points today so far.  I still have my investment in the Medical Equipment mutual fund for over several decades.  It is now closed to new investors.   :thumbsup: tiphat :king:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 02:17:55 PM
This is absolutely not the test, don’t be silly like MoldyTurd.

There’s simply no way for an average person to judge this, based on one death.

Read Dr. Shiva, MIT graduate. Read Dr. Bhakdi, Professor Emeritus, Germany. Do not under any circumstances trust the MSM. Forget it. They ceased being real journalists decades ago. They are highly paid corporate shills.

I dunno Confederate, I would say that if an otherwise healthy PM bites the dust, that makes it a pretty serious situation (well, at least for the UK).

He’s only one guy, and whether or not he was healthy isn’t known. It’s his private medical history. He may have contacted a serious STD recently due to his cheating activities.

Trying to make judgements based upon ONE death isn’t even remotely scientific.

I will remind you that in 2016 the MSM repeatedly told us that Trump had ZERO chance of winning until the bitter end.

Believe whatever you wish to... but for Gods sake do more research.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 06, 2020, 02:33:22 PM
Moby

as you are very good in foreign languages..... why not  listen to this video, then translate the Greek and Italian text from the program of TgR Leonardo of 16 November 2015 on Rai 3. Then Confederate will be able to find out  the news that a group of Chinese researchers, together with US researchers  had created a super lung virus in the laboratory from bats and mice.

That is what is been suggested in the Video.

«The Creation of COVID-19 was a joined project between USA and China, according to Matteo Salvini the ex Deputy Prime Minister of Italy. The Americans withdrew a year before and then sent agents into China to spread the virus and to accuse the Chinese of having biological weapons, as the Americans always do. »

Matteo Salvini is an Italian politician who served as Deputy Prime Minister of Italy and Minister of the Interior from 1 June 2018 to 5 September 2019.

None of the above it's my own comments, I simply translated what is implied in the video .... and post it here for your attention!


 tiphat :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 06, 2020, 02:40:29 PM

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/

Note that the other countries may be unable to follow through with how Sweden is handling the pandemic.


Thank you for posting this article/link.

While I do not want to go down the rabbit hole into some of the more whacky conspiracy theories. The premise of the article is supper interesting. The current numbers of Sweden are higher than article indicates. But I wonder if we are being hoodwinked.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 06, 2020, 02:48:09 PM

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/

Note that the other countries may be unable to follow through with how Sweden is handling the pandemic.


Thank you for posting this article/link.

While I do not want to go down the rabbit hole into some of the more whacky conspiracy theories. The premise of the article is supper interesting. The current numbers of Sweden are higher than article indicates. But I wonder if we are being hoodwinked.


That is something that is always present for any epidemic.  The actual numbers reported can be inflated, deflated, or totally made up.  There is only one truth -  the majority of the information online is false, manufactured, or posted by trolls.  Best to go under the hill of sand or underground bunker and insulate yourself from the rest of the world population.   :chuckle: :eeekk:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 03:03:05 PM
From National Review article posted by dcguy.

Herd immunity works! What a friggen surprise! Not.


“Sweden is developing herd immunity by refusing to panic. By not requiring social isolation, Sweden’s young people spread the virus, mostly asymptomatically, as is supposed to happen in a normal flu season. They will generate protective antibodies that make it harder and harder for the Wuhan virus to reach and infect the frail and elderly who have serious underlying conditions. For perspective, the current COVID-19 death rate in Sweden (40 deaths per million of population) is substantially lower than the Swedish death rate in a normal flu season (in 2018, for instance, about 80 per million of population).

Compare that with the situation to Switzerland, a similar small European country, which has 8.5 million people. Switzerland is practicing strict social isolation. Yet Switzerland reports 715 cumulative Wuhan-virus deaths as of today, for a death rate nearly double the number in Sweden. What about Norway, another Nordic country that shares a 1,000-mile open border with Sweden, with a language and culture very similar to Sweden’s? Norway (population 5.4 million) has fewer reported COVID-19 deaths (71) than Sweden but a substantially higher rate of coronavirus ICU admissions.

On Friday, one of us spoke with Ulf Persson in his office at the Swedish Institute for Health Economics. He said that everyone he knows is calm and steady, behaving with more caution than normal, following such government-mandated social controls as a 50-person limit on gatherings and only sit-down service at bars and restaurants. Persson estimates that the Swedish economy will drop about 4 percent because of the global economic shutdowns. But that’s nothing compared with the Great Depression unemployment levels of 32 percent that the U.S. Federal Reserve Board of St. Louis recently forecast for the United States.

Nature’s got this one, folks. We’ve been coping with new viruses for untold generations. The best way is to allow the young and healthy — those for whom the virus is rarely fatal — to develop antibodies and herd immunity to protect the frail and sick. As time passes, it will become clearer that social-isolation measures like those in Switzerland and Norway accomplish very little in terms of reducing fatalities or disease, though they crater local and national economies — increasing misery, pain, death, and disease from other causes as people’s lives are upended and futures are destroyed.”

John Fund is a columnist for National Review and has reported frequently from Sweden. Joel Hay is a professor in the department of Pharmaceutical Economics and Policy at the University of Southern California. The author of more than 600 peer-reviewed scientific articles and reports, he has collaborated with the Swedish Ins

© 2020 National Review

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
I'm defo not a BoJo fan, but I sincerely hope when I wake up tomorrow he'll be on the mend ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 06, 2020, 03:26:54 PM
From National Review article posted by dcguy.

Herd immunity works! What a friggen surprise! Not.


“Sweden is developing herd immunity by refusing to panic. By not requiring social isolation, Sweden’s young people spread the virus, mostly asymptomatically, as is supposed to happen in a normal flu season. They will generate protective antibodies that make it harder and harder for the Wuhan virus to reach and infect the frail and elderly who have serious underlying conditions. For perspective, the current COVID-19 death rate in Sweden (40 deaths per million of population) is substantially lower than the Swedish death rate in a normal flu season (in 2018, for instance, about 80 per million of population).

Compare that with the situation to Switzerland, a similar small European country, which has 8.5 million people. Switzerland is practicing strict social isolation. Yet Switzerland reports 715 cumulative Wuhan-virus deaths as of today, for a death rate nearly double the number in Sweden. What about Norway, another Nordic country that shares a 1,000-mile open border with Sweden, with a language and culture very similar to Sweden’s? Norway (population 5.4 million) has fewer reported COVID-19 deaths (71) than Sweden but a substantially higher rate of coronavirus ICU admissions.

On Friday, one of us spoke with Ulf Persson in his office at the Swedish Institute for Health Economics. He said that everyone he knows is calm and steady, behaving with more caution than normal, following such government-mandated social controls as a 50-person limit on gatherings and only sit-down service at bars and restaurants. Persson estimates that the Swedish economy will drop about 4 percent because of the global economic shutdowns. But that’s nothing compared with the Great Depression unemployment levels of 32 percent that the U.S. Federal Reserve Board of St. Louis recently forecast for the United States.

Nature’s got this one, folks. We’ve been coping with new viruses for untold generations. The best way is to allow the young and healthy — those for whom the virus is rarely fatal — to develop antibodies and herd immunity to protect the frail and sick. As time passes, it will become clearer that social-isolation measures like those in Switzerland and Norway accomplish very little in terms of reducing fatalities or disease, though they crater local and national economies — increasing misery, pain, death, and disease from other causes as people’s lives are upended and futures are destroyed.”

John Fund is a columnist for National Review and has reported frequently from Sweden. Joel Hay is a professor in the department of Pharmaceutical Economics and Policy at the University of Southern California. The author of more than 600 peer-reviewed scientific articles and reports, he has collaborated with the Swedish Ins

© 2020 National Review

FFS Cornfed

Why don't you try checking out some facts?

Sweden is about 7 times smaller than the UK in population and hasn't been test, test, test orientated  - deaths are the only reasonably accurate figure we can go on .. unless we all wacko conspiracy theorists ..

Just under 500 have died .. that would equate to 15k if compared to the US proportionally - that's 50 percent MORE than the US ..


STILL not thinking, I see


Time to learn some Swedish ..




https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 06, 2020, 03:54:45 PM
Before wetting your pants about Sweden, have a look at some numbers and bear in mind that many Swedes have taken the reasonable step to enforce their own lockdown.

Today, deaths per million in Sweden are 47, in the USA the number is 32. Sweden is doing about 50% worse in keeping people alive than the USA!

When it comes to confirmed infections per million, Sweden has 714. That's not far off the UK at 760, but lower than the USA at 1097.

Those numbers are not down to the testing regime. Sweden has tested about the same proportion of its population as the UK and about 70% of that in the USA.

Sweden is NOT a shining example of a laissez-faire policy. It is almost certain that as the number of deaths doubles every 2 or 3 days that changes are on the way. Sweden is about 2 weeks behind the UK from its first confirmed case (although both countries probably had quite a few cases floating around before these dates). In terms of public health outcomes, they are doing far, far worse than the UK or USA at a similar point in the progression of the human malware outbreak.

The curve is the curve, numbers are numbers and viruses do not discriminate on the basis of location or government policy!

As to whether we should just let folks kick the bucket with no care or treatment and go for herd immunity as soon as possible - there are good arguments for herd immunity but not at the cost of our humanity. The blended approach still being followed in the UK seems to be rational, humane and effective. I expect Sweden will follow the UK in terms of its public policy in the next few days.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 06, 2020, 05:35:27 PM
Holy shizzle. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52192604

Not good. 50/50 for him from here on according to recent UK stats. Fingers crossed he pulls through.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 06, 2020, 05:41:43 PM
He'll be fine. He was posting on Instagram yesterday. His pregnant girlfriend Carrie just recovered.

I'm not convinced it isn't PR to make the underclass sit up and listen and obey the rules.

I saw him in the flesh a few months ago, he's a big strong bloke in his early 50s. I doubt he's going to fall off the twig just yet. And even if he is particularly susceptible, he has the best medical care that money can buy.

Meanwhile, sit up and pay attention, the Queen has spoken.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 06, 2020, 06:01:10 PM
The same boy dies over and over, then dies as a little girl.

And,

Why is this so different? Or is it?

Because the journals are lazy or the social media poster ? 

Vitor Godina, from Porto


(https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/1k4HcbTbH85XNtNNXV_kJODX5-s=/620x368/smart/filters:quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-syd-prod-nzme.s3.amazonaws.com/public/OWHOHTLXKRC2LEKLZBZELARGZY.jpg)

I'm not aware anyone has posted a ( correct ) photo of Ismail or the Belgian girl

Do you SERIOUSLY doubt they died ?

Do you SERIOUSLY think they didn't died of the virus or complications from same ..?







Rumors are heritage neo-nationalists in Swedish Healthcare are touting the herd no lockdown plan to benefit their Afro Islamist ghettos so that they can also benefit from rapid spread of herd immunity.  Sweden yes so tolerant!



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 06, 2020, 06:12:03 PM
Curious if BoJo gave it to his Baby Momma or if the baby momma gave it to Boris.

Will be interesting the effect on any possible birth defects related to covid19.

Hope the kid comes out OK ... Lord knows the kid is innocent in all this baby momma drama.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 06, 2020, 06:14:08 PM
Curious if BoJo gave it to his Baby Momma or if the baby momma gave it to Boris.

He had symptoms first.

There will be no birth defects, this is a variant of the flu. You’ve just had it haven’t you, Mike?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 06, 2020, 06:25:01 PM
What I had past 3-4 weeks was seasonal Rhinovirus a.k.a. the Common Cold...

Not looking forward to playing Corona roulette...  New Yorkers invading all of the Northeast like roaming varmints.

So I am watching updates, the tubes and self isolating till it peaks.   No need to tempt fate.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 06, 2020, 08:26:25 PM
What I had past 3-4 weeks was seasonal Rhinovirus a.k.a. the Common Cold...

Not looking forward to playing Corona roulette...  New Yorkers invading all of the Northeast like roaming varmints.

So I am watching updates, the tubes and self isolating till it peaks.   No need to tempt fate.

Glad to hear you’re well. Take some natural vitamin C and some zinc. Eat some whole oranges. Buy an excellent probiotic at a Health Food store and take one every day. Gargle at least twice a day with with Listerine or similar strong mouthwash.  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 07, 2020, 12:07:29 AM

Trump says being in intensive care is a big deal. American pharmaceutical companies send their best drugs to help Boris Johnson at Trump's request.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-i-have-asked-us-pharma-ceos-to-offer-johnson-experimental-covid-19-treatments/ar-BB12f6sp?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 07, 2020, 12:36:03 AM
Bill Gates is spending billions to build facilities to manufacture vaccines should one be found. By doing this he will save months making getting a vaccine out to people quicker.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-coronavirus-vaccine-152251369.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 07, 2020, 01:28:55 AM

Trump says being in intensive care is a big deal. American pharmaceutical companies send their best drugs to help Boris Johnson at Trump's request.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-i-have-asked-us-pharma-ceos-to-offer-johnson-experimental-covid-19-treatments/ar-BB12f6sp?ocid=spartanntp

Trump is an odious PR seeker that takes any opportunity to waffle to the media.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 07, 2020, 03:39:28 AM
Guess who has shares in the FR pharma co. re the drug cocktail 'Trampu' pushed....?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 07, 2020, 09:12:39 AM

Trump says being in intensive care is a big deal. American pharmaceutical companies send their best drugs to help Boris Johnson at Trump's request.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-i-have-asked-us-pharma-ceos-to-offer-johnson-experimental-covid-19-treatments/ar-BB12f6sp?ocid=spartanntp

Trump is an odious PR seeker that takes any opportunity to waffle to the media.

The media doesn't report anything good he does but Trump does much more good than he says. Trump has many things to brag about but he doesn't always do so. Trump genuinely cares about Boris as a peer and a friend.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 07, 2020, 02:11:17 PM
New Coronavirus cases is growing at a much slower pace in New York city now. One report was saying the number of new cases per day should peak around April 10 in New York. Number of deaths should rise for a week or two after the number of new cases drop. The stock market is up here for a number of days in a row on hopes this will start to improve soon. The country as a whole should peak in about two weeks. People are guesting when we will be able to reopen.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trumps-top-economist-says-economy-could-reopen-in-4-8-weeks/ar-BB12h3In?li=BBnbfcN
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 07, 2020, 02:48:38 PM
Don't count on it Texan. Look around the country. There's plenty of places that will become the next hotpots. It's not like in Europe where you have centres of population in close proximity. In the USA there's plenty of space between many cities. So, unless you lot change up your game across the country, there's plenty of places that are bubbling away without many confirmed cases, doubling every few days until enough thousands have been infected to create a few deaths.

Even in densely populated England were seeing this effect as different regions become new hotpots.

As for deaths, remember, there will be about as many deaths after the peak as there were before it. There will be as many new infections after it as before it but it may well take longer from peak to end than from patient zero to peak.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 07, 2020, 03:36:48 PM
From, what I understand there will eventually in the next 14 to 28 days a flattening out in the United States of new infections. Deaths between now and three weeks will continue to rise.

As for the UK, there are areas/regions where the infected have not overwhelmed the medical services. The same is true for the US.

Regarding New York City where the majority of the New York cases are from; two population groups are especially being affected, the Hasidic and the Jamaican/Haitian communities. Both groups are quite tightly 'knit and close'. Being suspicious and superstitious does not exactly help at this moment.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on April 07, 2020, 04:28:35 PM
Looks UK's PM is in more serious condition than originally thought.
Now in intensive care, not on a respirator yet.

Hope he is ok.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 07, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
Bill Gates is spending billions to build facilities to manufacture vaccines should one be found. By doing this he will save months making getting a vaccine out to people quicker.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-coronavirus-vaccine-152251369.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

Sad that you’re being deceived by the very people who benefit from this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 07, 2020, 09:09:12 PM
Sad that you’re being deceived by the very people who benefit from this.


If somebody is involved in a cure, they should benefit. Do you believe doing nothing is the solution? Do you even have a solution?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 08, 2020, 02:05:54 AM
AvHdB, the numbers are the numbers.

What you're seeing in New York is the result of not taking action until too late in a large population centre.

The same things will happen elsewhere unless the actions of the leaders and people in those areas are different - and they aren't.

So, you'll have curves similar to New York in most places. The absolute numbers might vary, but the curve is the curve.

In aggregate, because many of the major population centres are already in play, there might be an illusion that things are better, that the curve is flattening, but for each of the communities affected things will follow much the same course as in Washington, New York, California etc etc.

The biggest difference between the USA and Europe in practical terms is that the US has a lot more space and so, to some degree, population centres are 'socially distanced' in a way that is not possible in Europe. The effect is to delay infection spread - but it won't eliminate it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 08, 2020, 02:09:19 AM
Here's an interesting page from a Chinese news site.
https://www.toutiao.com/a6812749554228658696/

This is about opening up Wuhan after its lockdown. Obviously it is in Chinese but it is well written and translates easily.

Toutiao is a very useful site, it uses AI to aggregate news on topics that you're interested in. Sadly, as I do not have a Chinese address or smartphone I can't register a full account but even so, it is a very interesting way to access news stories in a way that is not possible in any other way. There are some interesting differences between the way the Chinese and western people get to access news, comment and opinion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 08, 2020, 02:38:01 AM
Im sick and tired about seeing in the media idiots complaining about being locked in their homes for even 2 weeks, sick of idiots flouting the laws in the parks and so on..

If I was in charge I would just issue the police with shoot to kill the *snip*s who take no notice..

Very simple really.. it would solve all the shit cos after 2/3 people have been shot dead no one else would do its!! Finito..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Zhenya on April 08, 2020, 02:50:24 AM
Hello from Ukraine! We do not have that many cases of the virus but so far noone trusts our statistical data taking into the account the huge population and the amount of workers who returned to motherland bringing and spreading this corona around. But the posotive thing is that a spring is outside in full blossom and some experts say that with higher outside temperatures this corona wont remain on surface and the rates will go down. And heard also an idea that those who got tuberculosis vaccine in the childhood are less exposed to this virus. So lets stay healthy!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 08, 2020, 04:12:28 AM
And heard also an idea that those who got tuberculosis vaccine in the childhood are less exposed to this virus. So lets stay healthy!
Thats not true, I dare bet that 95%+ of all people in Western europe get TBC innoculations when they are old enough and Corona sweeps through Europe just like other places.

In netherlands you get 2 major vaccination programs:
DKTP (diphtheria, whooping cough, tubercelosis and polio)
BMR (Mumps, measles and rubella)

Those 7 diseases were all nearly wiped-out in Netherlands. Until the anti-vaxxers started convincing people to reject those vaccins.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 08, 2020, 04:17:40 AM
And heard also an idea that those who got tuberculosis vaccine in the childhood are less exposed to this virus.

Yep, read about that one too  :nod:  :reading:

As a proof, the %% of infected in "neue Bundesländer" (ex-DDR [excluding Berlin], where BCG vaccination was mandatory) and "alte Bundesländer" (BRD) was used.

Another example is the difference in %% of infected in Portugal (0,00121 as of today) and Spain (0,00312 as of today) - countries that do have a similar climate, similar meals, similar economy - BUT in Portugal BCG vaccination was (and still is) mandatory.

Presumably BCG vaccination develops not only the specific immunity against tuberculosis, but also the non-specific immunity against other respiratory system infection...  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 08, 2020, 04:19:34 AM
In netherlands you get 2 major vaccination programs:
DKTP (diphtheria, whooping cough, tubercelosis and polio)
BMR (Mumps, measles and rubella)
Those 7 diseases were all nearly wiped-out in Netherlands. Until the anti-vaxxers started convincing people to reject those vaccins.

Thanks for the info, Markje - I guess you know it all because of your kids?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 08, 2020, 04:34:56 AM
New Coronavirus cases is growing at a much slower pace in New York city now. One report was saying the number of new cases per day should peak around April 10 in New York. Number of deaths should rise for a week or two after the number of new cases drop. The stock market is up here for a number of days in a row on hopes this will start to improve soon. The country as a whole should peak in about two weeks. People are guesting when we will be able to reopen.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trumps-top-economist-says-economy-could-reopen-in-4-8-weeks/ar-BB12h3In?li=BBnbfcN

Sadly, you guys are yet to tip the scales on this one. I've already spoken about your misguided optimism but I fail to see how the US is immune to what other 1st rate nations have faced. Being American doesn't automatically disqualify you from the Covid-19 grim reaper. I fear there's more bad news to follow during the next month or 2 and opening up for business again in April is ridiculous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52209954

The US recorded the most coronavirus deaths in a single day with more than 1,800 fatalities reported on Tuesday.
It brings the total number of deaths in the country to nearly 13,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.
The US has more than 398,000 confirmed cases, the highest number in the world. Global cases have exceeded 1.4 million.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Zhenya on April 08, 2020, 04:40:11 AM
Quote from: Markje on Today at 04:12:28 AM
Thats just an assumption which needs more investigation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on April 08, 2020, 04:41:07 AM
Hello from Ukraine! We do not have that many cases of the virus but so far noone trusts our statistical data taking into the account the huge population and the amount of workers who returned to motherland bringing and spreading this corona around. But the posotive thing is that a spring is outside in full blossom and some experts say that with higher outside temperatures this corona wont remain on surface and the rates will go down. And heard also an idea that those who got tuberculosis vaccine in the childhood are less exposed to this virus. So lets stay healthy!

My wife's city of Chernivtsi, is more or less in lock down, I say more or less because you can get into the city if you are from there originally, but can't get back out again. Deliveries etc of most goods into the city are still taking place, we have multiple reports daily  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Zhenya on April 08, 2020, 04:45:23 AM
Hello from Ukraine! We do not have that many cases of the virus but so far noone trusts our statistical data taking into the account the huge population and the amount of workers who returned to motherland bringing and spreading this corona around. But the posotive thing is that a spring is outside in full blossom and some experts say that with higher outside temperatures this corona wont remain on surface and the rates will go down. And heard also an idea that those who got tuberculosis vaccine in the childhood are less exposed to this virus. So lets stay healthy!

My wife's city of Chernivtsi, is more or less in lock down, I say more or less because you can get into the city if you are from there originally, but can't get back out again. Deliveries etc of most goods into the city are still taking place, we have multiple reports daily  :)

I am originally from Sumy on the border with Russia, but now living in Kiev for 13 years already. All public transport between the towns is impossible, only by private cars. From this Monday they have restricted quarantine-you cannot walk in the parks and other recreation zones only with a dog.And you can go outside only with mask. Its enough food in the shops but you need to queue because only certain amount of people are allowed in.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 08, 2020, 05:58:57 AM
In netherlands you get 2 major vaccination programs:
DKTP (diphtheria, whooping cough, tubercelosis and polio)
BMR (Mumps, measles and rubella)
Those 7 diseases were all nearly wiped-out in Netherlands. Until the anti-vaxxers started convincing people to reject those vaccins.

Thanks for the info, Markje - I guess you know it all because of your kids?

Yep, all my kids get all vaccinations the NL has to offer (for free) and 1 extra because we visit Crimea often (not-free).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 08, 2020, 06:59:49 AM
Putin on TV a few mins ago.. so looks like all doctors and nurses and so on just got a reasonable pay rise..been waiting 10 years!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2020, 08:01:15 AM
some experts say that with higher outside temperatures this corona wont remain on surface and the rates will go down.


Experts are still learning the behavior and characteristics of this virus. They don't know if this virus is seasonal or come back in cycles which could be every few months. Flus are seasonal viruses but the coronavirus isn't related to the flu, it's related to the cold virus and we catch colds a number of times each year although we don't always know it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Zhenya on April 08, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
some experts say that with higher outside temperatures this corona wont remain on surface and the rates will go down.


Experts are still learning the behavior and characteristics of this virus. They don't know if this virus is seasonal or come back in cycles which could be every few months. Flus are seasonal viruses but the coronavirus isn't related to the flu, it's related to the cold virus and we catch colds a number of times each year although we don't always know it.
I was listening tovirusologist from Israel on this topic and I do trust their medicine. Agreed that further studies will show final conclusions but preliminarily they do believe that higher temperatures will kill some part of corona.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 08, 2020, 08:31:52 AM
To follow up on my last post regarding certain ethnic and religious populations being harder hit in New York City there is article from a local paper.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/hasidic-jews-hold-another-funeral-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 08, 2020, 08:43:36 AM
While I prefer not to copy and paste the below is from someone I have met a few times. Because it is articulate and paints a rather complete description of catching the gift of Wuhan here it is. I have taken the liberty of editing some of the report, I doubt anyone is interested in the minutiae of running a top tier art gallery. There is one passage in bold at the end which sums better than any words that I can write the approach I have in this time.

Marc Glimcher is the president and CEO of Pace Gallery.

Was it the trip to the Middle East? The Arlene Shechet opening in New York? It probably wasn’t Frieze L.A….

Everyone keeps asking me where I caught the coronavirus. The answer is: I don’t know.

What I do know is that on Wednesday, March 4, I started to feel sick. Nothing particularly alarming. Chills, a cough, body aches.

That was a month ago, but it feels like a different era.

The following night I called Julian Schnabel to tell him I couldn’t make it to his opening at my gallery, a show I had been working on for almost a year. He understood, of course, but when he said, “I think it’s crazy right now for you to come to the opening and infect everyone,” it sounded to me like he was overreacting.

I spent that day in bed with a fever of 102 that came and went along with chills and sweats. My sleep was punctuated by coughing fits, and a burning sensation and pressure in the center of my chest. The shocker, for me, was the body aches, muscle spasms in my upper back that caused a stabbing pain.  Stuck in bed, I fielded calls from gallery department heads, who were starting to consider contingencies as my situation accelerated.

My wife, Fairfax, reacted faster than than I did. My version of self-quarantine was to lie in the closet, my feet sticking out of the door. Fairfax made me return to bed (a big mistake, as we would learn a few days later). On Friday afternoon, she had a doctor in full Personal Protective Equipment come to the apartment and administer a flu test, which came back negative. By Monday, our intrepid doctors—thank you, Dr. Hasan and Dr. Shlain—had located a few precious Covid-19 tests, and all of us—Fairfax, myself, and my 20-month-old son—got a very nasty swabbing.

By mid-week we were all starting to feel better. My son had had a 99-degree fever for one night, but otherwise no symptoms. With my older kids safely with their mother or ensconced in their apartments in Brooklyn, it looked like the spread was contained to Fairfax’s and my Manhattan apartment.

At that point, I started to refocus my attention on how the virus was already affecting matters at the gallery—our plans to mount a loan exhibition . . . ahead of auction week in New York had become impossible, and other planned exhibitions, performances, and projects were looking uncertain. From my sick bed, I had difficult decisions to make for the team. Meanwhile, as the days ticked by and the country descended into a chaotic series of steps and missteps, we were locked up, waiting for test results that never seemed to come.

On Thursday, March 12, as the National Guard was rolling into Westchester, New York, I decided to close the gallery. Friday, March 13, was Pace’s first day of remote work. (Our team of 175 is still home all these weeks later, although our galleries in Hong Kong and Seoul have tentatively reopened.)

Six days after we were tested, my Covid result, as well as those of my wife and young son, came back negative. Reassured, if somewhat skeptical, we headed over to visit my parents, Arne and Milly, who are both in their 80s. When we got home, we received a message that our testing cadre had been flawed, the samples were beginning to be rerun, and my son had come back positive. Our doctor advised us that we were most likely positive as well and to proceed as though we were.

As we waited for our second test results, my symptoms started to return—the coronavirus’s now-famous second act. The coughing and shortness of breath were back with a vengeance. I became familiar with the mute button on my Zoom screen as meeting after meeting became a display for my pulmonary distress. That second wave, for me, was characterized by exhaustion; the slightest exertion landed me in bed for a couple hours.

Even as my own world was narrowing, the art world was changing in ways we’d never experienced. At my gallery, we did our best to engage technology and the internet to keep our artists’ voices out there as our systems of exhibitions, art fairs, auctions, and museum shows disappeared before our eyes. We pivoted quickly to launch exhibitions on our online viewing room platform, giving visibility to our exhibitions that were now shuttered as well as mounting a series of original shows that we hoped would resonate with a newly isolated art world. The very commerce that would keep us alive began to seem surreal in the world in which we now found ourselves: within a week, talking to collectors about buying work went from fruitless to tasteless.

It dawned on us at the gallery in those early days that the solitude we were now experiencing was not unlike the lives our artists have been living for generations, the isolation that often accompanies the creative act. Instinctively, we turned to them, and their voices have been vital as we navigate through our new daily routines.

My own bout with this disease has coincided with the radical change that has taken over all of our lives. At Day 32, I am feeling fine, aside from a lingering cough (and my parents, luckily, were unaffected), but I am faced with questions I never dreamed I would have to answer: How does my gallery cope with two to six months of little or no revenue? How will all this change the way we in the art world—and beyond—behave in the future?

As gallerists, we are in the business of the future: the studio visit that gets us thinking about a show, the client visit that gets us thinking about an art fair booth, the meeting with our curatorial team that gets us imagining some new book or performance. . . . the pricing, the over-promotion, the travel, the relentless catering to the lowest instincts of speculators, the ballooning overheads, the mutually-destructive competition, the engineered auction records, and the desperate search for capital to burn, just to prove that you can burn it.

At 3 in the morning on my 19th day of being sick, my breathing was so bad that I woke up struggling for air. Lying in the dark, trying not to wake my wife, my fear escalated to panic. In that dark hour, as with most people having even a brush with mortality, all the calculations of rent, payroll, insurance, melted away and the core of my life was left exposed: what would I miss, who would I miss, what did I contribute?

A quick trip to the hospital the next morning confirmed that my lungs were clear, and I’ve been steadily on the mend since.

So many precious lives have been lost in this crisis, and countless more permanently scarred by grief. We must give our recovery meaning. I am blessed with a beautiful family and a gallery filled with artists, friends, and colleagues who strive and struggle to create. This recovery—our recovery—long and complex though it may be, will be lost or won depending on our ability to reject those things that spoil, degrade, and erode our creative world in favor of embracing and protecting what is real, enduring, and inspiring in our lives and in art.

https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/coronavirus-marc-glimcher-pace-gallery-1202683345/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 08, 2020, 09:03:32 AM
What's 'interesting' is comparing other nations' attitudes to this as 'lock-down' hits ..

We are only just into 2 weeks of 'lockdown' and we STILL have MUPPETS like Trench that think they are 'special' and abuse the trust the UK govt put in us to 'socially distance'  and STAY AT HOME..

In Russia, Moscow's mayor was the first to order foreigners from certain nations to be quarantined or ( if Russian ) go to their end destination and self-isolate.

'Our' region ( Krasnodar)  introduced one of the strictest regimes to stop the Trench types from thinking no work meant 'holiday time' and closed all hotels ( to new guests ) , restaurants and non essential shops


I was surprised at the anger shown to Putin - given this made sense to save lives ..


Now I 'get it'..

Russians have been told that all is fine ... We have a stability fund - so when the Oil Prices fell and the Rouble with it ...  'reassurances' were made..


Then 'Korona'( that was a symptom of 'European weakness' ) hit and folks were told to stay at home ..

The difference ?   No support packages ... Those with contracts with govts ... 'cancelled' ... many working for the govt are told, " work for two days a week - but your salary is reduced by 60 percent" and no paperwork issued to permit them to travel - even though many govt depts have issued documentation ... there is chaos


Sochi admin tells of 200 citations but people on Odnoklassniki  and FBook discuss visiting friends and meetings in the mountains and how to avoid police checks ...  :deadhorse:


While I talked with SC who was walking back from the shops - I observed two 'militsia' close together, surgical masks around their necks, smoking and in deep conversation. SC was sat on a bench outside the shop ( having done it ) and I asked her to get her arse back inside ..


I asked her today .. " How many people are wearing masks? " ... Hardly anyone - apart from govt officials ..


Trench is 'worried' about Italy and lack of govt funding ... I'm now kicking myself for not insisting SC came to Britain and stayed 'locked up' .. at least we have a gardens here ...


I'm wondering how some Russians will cope if they are ordered not to work, but get no help.


I have friends who assured me they'd be fine, that govt contracts could not be cancelled ... they can go to their Dacha and live off the land ..


I base my viewpoint on what I read  / hear /see via a lens when 'out' with SC ...  if others know different ..welcome.


Right now, Putin's popularity is at an time low..... Russians just want to get on and live ..not get involved in politics ... they do not trust their govt. who when the sh*t has hit the fan ... suddenly say .. you don't understand .... the 'stability fund' is not applicable in situations like this.


They see aid being sent to Serbia and Italy ( example) and wonder why the state tells them to STAY HOME and no provision  to ensure they are financially supported ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 08, 2020, 09:23:36 AM
It's funny how people talk about a peak in infections as though that's somehow a given, is automatic. It isn't. The peak in infections occurs at the point where the virus cannot replicate as freely as it did before.

This happens in one of two ways:
1) So many people have been infected that there are fewer and fewer people to infect.
2) People no longer come into contact with each other and they stay away from each other long enough that the virus is unable to find new victims and so dies out.

The first is herd immunity, that still seems to be at the root of the strategy in the UK - an understanding that at some point, we need a lot of people to be immune in order to have a functioning society.

The second is the full-on lockdown seen in many countries, particularly in Europe and increasingly, at last, in the USA. The problem here is the sting in the tail! People stay away from each other so the virus cannot get to new people. But then when folks are let out, all of a sudden there's new infections. The only way to avoid this is to stay in isolation for at least two lifecycles of the virus to ensure that it has died out. All infections are over and all viral debris on surfaces is inactivated. That means continuing the isolation for about 4 weeks after the numbers are looking good!

There's no sign that anyone in power in the USA has the balls to do the job right.

In the meantime, the virus will spread across the country, reaching all the communities that are not completely isolated and over a period of months will cast its dark shadow everywhere.

Just as with Spanish Flu each area will only be affected, as I have noted before, for a few months, but sits going to get everywhere.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 08, 2020, 09:57:14 AM
In netherlands you get 2 major vaccination programs:
DKTP (diphtheria, whooping cough, tubercelosis and polio)
BMR (Mumps, measles and rubella)
Those 7 diseases were all nearly wiped-out in Netherlands. Until the anti-vaxxers started convincing people to reject those vaccins.

Thanks for the info, Markje - I guess you know it all because of your kids?

Yep, all my kids get all vaccinations the NL has to offer (for free) and 1 extra because we visit Crimea often (not-free).

Do you include vaccine for HIV, HPV, Wuhan 2019?!?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 08, 2020, 10:00:29 AM

You should spend some time on medical volunteer work, rather than making or having made inaccurate anticipations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 08, 2020, 10:06:18 AM
Bill Gates is spending billions to build facilities to manufacture vaccines should one be found. By doing this he will save months making getting a vaccine out to people quicker.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-gates-coronavirus-vaccine-152251369.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

Very few capitalist still have some major influence under disaster.

Most of them just hide from their responsibility.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 08, 2020, 10:22:02 AM
The same boy dies over and over, then dies as a little girl.
And,
Why is this so different? Or is it?

Many people, 99% I guess, copy posts from social media and treat them as news.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 08, 2020, 11:41:57 AM

You should spend some time on medical volunteer work, rather than making or having made inaccurate anticipations.

What are you struggling to say?

Please try again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 08, 2020, 12:22:16 PM
Bannon and warroom pandemic team on fire today re the CCP, WHO and Covid19 botched response ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on April 08, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
What's 'interesting' is comparing other nations' attitudes to this as 'lock-down' hits ..

We are only just into 2 weeks of 'lockdown' and we STILL have MUPPETS like Trench that think they are 'special' and abuse the trust the UK govt put in us to 'socially distance'  and STAY AT HOME..

In Russia, Moscow's mayor was the first to order foreigners from certain nations to be quarantined or ( if Russian ) go to their end destination and self-isolate.

'Our' region ( Krasnodar)  introduced one of the strictest regimes to stop the Trench types from thinking no work meant 'holiday time' and closed all hotels ( to new guests ) , restaurants and non essential shops


I was surprised at the anger shown to Putin - given this made sense to save lives ..


Now I 'get it'..

Russians have been told that all is fine ... We have a stability fund - so when the Oil Prices fell and the Rouble with it ...  'reassurances' were made..


Then 'Korona'( that was a symptom of 'European weakness' ) hit and folks were told to stay at home ..

The difference ?   No support packages ... Those with contracts with govts ... 'cancelled' ... many working for the govt are told, " work for two days a week - but your salary is reduced by 60 percent" and no paperwork issued to permit them to travel - even though many govt depts have issued documentation ... there is chaos


Sochi admin tells of 200 citations but people on Odnoklassniki  and FBook discuss visiting friends and meetings in the mountains and how to avoid police checks ...  :deadhorse:


While I talked with SC who was walking back from the shops - I observed two 'militsia' close together, surgical masks around their necks, smoking and in deep conversation. SC was sat on a bench outside the shop ( having done it ) and I asked her to get her arse back inside ..


I asked her today .. " How many people are wearing masks? " ... Hardly anyone - apart from govt officials ..


Trench is 'worried' about Italy and lack of govt funding ... I'm now kicking myself for not insisting SC came to Britain and stayed 'locked up' .. at least we have a gardens here ...


I'm wondering how some Russians will cope if they are ordered not to work, but get no help.


I have friends who assured me they'd be fine, that govt contracts could not be cancelled ... they can go to their Dacha and live off the land ..


I base my viewpoint on what I read  / hear /see via a lens when 'out' with SC ...  if others know different ..welcome.


Right now, Putin's popularity is at an time low..... Russians just want to get on and live ..not get involved in politics ... they do not trust their govt. who when the sh*t has hit the fan ... suddenly say .. you don't understand .... the 'stability fund' is not applicable in situations like this.


They see aid being sent to Serbia and Italy ( example) and wonder why the state tells them to STAY HOME and no provision  to ensure they are financially supported ...

Oh Dear, more fake news from he who knowsitallaboutRussia/everywhere/everything..

There is no Trench posting here at this time, you've copied this from elsewhere, silly boy..

You really do need to get the facts right about the current situation in Russia..

All persons told to stay at home, which is everyone except essential workers are on full pay gratis the govt..

Self isolate means stay at home and NOT fock orf to the jolly old dacha..

I believe that there are currently 80 ish people confirmed covid 19, and 1 deceased in Sochi..

I also understand that there are approx. 8,000 cases of defying isolation requirements of both pedestrians, and drivers before the courts with fines ranging from 4,000 to 15,000r and above.

Russia has today ordered the additional payment of $1,000/month per frontline person, valid for the next 3 months.

And there's more but if you are interested, you must find the truths yourself, I'm not playing your game..

Btw, VVP's popularity is over 60%...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on April 08, 2020, 12:24:48 PM
The same boy dies over and over, then dies as a little girl.
And,
Why is this so different? Or is it?

Many people, 99% I guess, copy posts from social media and treat them as news.

Yourself included??
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 08, 2020, 12:30:52 PM

Trench is 'worried' about Italy and lack of govt funding ... I'm now kicking myself for not insisting SC came to Britain and stayed 'locked up' .. at least we have a gardens here ...


Oh Dear, more fake news from he who knowsitallaboutRussia/everywhere/everything..

There is no Trench posting here at this time, you've copied this from elsewhere, silly boy..


ms, while I am not surprised it is bad form, to say the least, to drag someone to RUA who is a very occasional poster here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 08, 2020, 12:43:22 PM
And heard also an idea that those who got tuberculosis vaccine in the childhood are less exposed to this virus.

Yep, read about that one too  :nod:  :reading:

As a proof, the %% of infected in "neue Bundesländer" (ex-DDR [excluding Berlin], where BCG vaccination was mandatory) and "alte Bundesländer" (BRD) was used.

Another example is the difference in %% of infected in Portugal (0,00121 as of today) and Spain (0,00312 as of today) - countries that do have a similar climate, similar meals, similar economy - BUT in Portugal BCG vaccination was (and still is) mandatory.

Presumably BCG vaccination develops not only the specific immunity against tuberculosis, but also the non-specific immunity against other respiratory system infection...  :biggrin:

Olga curious how things are doing in Moscow... Assume entertainers postponing tours for the time being.

In the USA lots of TV based virtual concerts with band members trying to coordinate performances on Skype and zoom but cash flow a fraction of stadium concerts with tickets and merch sales...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 08, 2020, 01:12:50 PM
Interesting news:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN215025

TOKYO/BEIJING (Reuters) - Shares in Japan's Fujifilm Holdings Corp (4901.T) surged 15% on Wednesday after a Chinese official said an active ingredient of the company's Avigan anti-flu drug appeared to help coronavirus patients recover.

Avigan, also known as Favipiravir, is manufactured by a subsidiary of Fujifilm, which has a healthcare arm although it is better known for its cameras. The drug was approved for use in Japan in 2014.

Favipiravir has been effective, with no obvious side-effects, in helping coronavirus patients recover, Zhang Xinmin, an official at China's Science and Technology Ministry, told reporters at a news conference on Tuesday.


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 08, 2020, 02:30:27 PM
Interesting news:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN215025

TOKYO/BEIJING (Reuters) - Shares in Japan's Fujifilm Holdings Corp (4901.T) surged 15% on Wednesday after a Chinese official said an active ingredient of the company's Avigan anti-flu drug appeared to help coronavirus patients recover.

Avigan, also known as Favipiravir, is manufactured by a subsidiary of Fujifilm, which has a healthcare arm although it is better known for its cameras. The drug was approved for use in Japan in 2014.

Favipiravir has been effective, with no obvious side-effects, in helping coronavirus patients recover, Zhang Xinmin, an official at China's Science and Technology Ministry, told reporters at a news conference on Tuesday.


###


You need to also prepare yourself for this virus should you get it.. it is no different to war!!

Survival of the fittest if you smoke and drink like a trooper and it gets you no amount of washing your hands is going to help you, I have been for a few months!

Fight the Virus by Training your immune system so if it hits your ready for the battle..
1. Cut Stress
2. Vitamin D or Sunshine
3. Oxygen, Fresh air
4. Deep Breathing
5. Vitamin C
6. Zinc
7. Water , it moves impurities etc
8. Cut Alcohol as it takes out immunity first line.
9. Pray to the lord and repent if necessary


(https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92242593_10216909624149602_3081868630946742272_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQn-7x_oz3D6954Xo8HMDRLbiSjMv85vf9l1Oh0Ti22pCnGrfUgaLTtzIBEoKUZGJs0&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=c89cca129d2af95b4d26c8fdb34bcb5d&oe=5EB3692A)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on April 08, 2020, 03:30:40 PM
Take a look at this. Will tell you as much as you need to know.
You can zoom in or out on any part of the world.
Likely give you and idea how each country is trying or not to doing
something about covid 19
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj1i9SB49noAhVFnOAKHd9TBgUQFjAAegQIERAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flightradar24.com%2F&usg=AOvVaw3Kl8F_pSsWPVMsjJu5YYM7
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 08, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
For one & all. I know the music is Welsh but I associate the hymn with The Church of Scotland.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2020, 08:43:06 PM
they do believe that higher temperatures will kill some part of corona.


I hope so but the virus continues to spread in the hotter areas of the world right now. South America, Africa, India and Australia continues so show increasing amount of infections and most of those nations do not have access to mass testing. The real number of infection may be much higher than reported.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 08, 2020, 11:29:20 PM

Oh Dear, more fake news from he who knowsitallaboutRussia/everywhere/everything..

Slaps forehead:  So, what I saw and read is 'fake ? ;))


There is no Trench posting here at this time, you've copied this from elsewhere, silly boy..

Mea culpa.. apologies


You really do need to get the facts right about the current situation in Russia..

Ah, like my Wife should have been quarantined .. because you 'knew' ?   NO ONE who was Russian and had been in Thailand for 30 days or more was quarantined..or asked to self-isolate. IF SC had came from the UK, she'd have been asked to self-isolate ..   Why do you question first hand events ?


All persons told to stay at home, which is everyone except essential workers are on full pay gratis the govt..

Your info is incorrect.. Many biz owners were told to close, but at the time of writing no compo was on the table.  Folks are allowed out in Sochi to shop for groceries and to go to a pharmacy and to go to work - if deemed essential ...

Self isolate means stay at home and NOT fock orf to the jolly old dacha..

I agree - it's not in the spirit of the law.. but that IS what's happening ..

I believe that there are currently 80 ish people confirmed covid 19, and 1 deceased in Sochi..

Like the UK... few believe the numbers, now..

I also understand that there are approx. 8,000 cases of defying isolation requirements of both pedestrians, and drivers before the courts with fines ranging from 4,000 to 15,000r and above.

I KNOW what Sochi Admin wrote ..I posted it ..

But as you suggested you 'knew more'

https://sochi.ru/press-sluzhba/novosti/68/146791/?fbclid=IwAR12hsjYEuiTczUld60ODeq5htGXZ_UjZ_RnnhsApb251cDqyqhqI2wEVRc (https://sochi.ru/press-sluzhba/novosti/68/146791/?fbclid=IwAR12hsjYEuiTczUld60ODeq5htGXZ_UjZ_RnnhsApb251cDqyqhqI2wEVRc)


"7 Апреля 2020
В Сочи около 100 водителей должны будут оплатить штраф за нарушение карантина"


Russia has today ordered the additional payment of $1,000/month per frontline person, valid for the next 3 months.

..and the businesses asked to close ?


And there's more but if you are interested, you must find the truths yourself, I'm not playing your game..

I quoted my source.. the local admin..

I quoted the words of Sochi citizens on Odnoklassniki and Fbook


Btw, VVP's popularity is over 60%...

'Sure' ...   like he 'won' the Presidential elections .. with the turnout officially suggested ..  I do not know anyone - who isn't an employee of the govt ... who voted at all


Gypo.. you are not doing yourself (or the dear reader) any favours by trying to 'diss' what is happening in Sochi ...  I go out every day with wife as when she goes to buy food.

I have other friends in Sochi ... some own heir own biz, some work for the admin, federal govt,.

I 'missed' your specific counters to the palpable anger at local and central govt .. are you stating I'm fibbing ? ( bearing in mind I support the lockdown)






Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 09, 2020, 03:47:19 AM

I was surprised at the anger shown to Putin - given this made sense to save lives ..

Now I 'get it'..


This made me chuckle. Our resident leftoid had a rant about racist, xenophobic Trump when he initially shut down flights coming for the EU & China. Days later the rest of the world followed suit and it allowed him to accept it.

Moby is the same man who uses WHO as some kind of paragon of virtue, quoting them in every argument, yet is was WHO that tweeted on 14th of Jan;

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human to human transmission of the novel (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan."

Then there's this beauty......


Right now, Putin's popularity is at an time low..... Russians just want to get on and live ..not get involved in politics ... they do not trust their govt.

He just cant help himself.  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Zhenya on April 09, 2020, 04:12:58 AM
they do believe that higher temperatures will kill some part of corona.


I hope so but the virus continues to spread in the hotter areas of the world right now. South America, Africa, India and Australia continues so show increasing amount of infections and most of those nations do not have access to mass testing. The real number of infection may be much higher than reported.
Let us hope and the experts afterwards will either confirm or negate this info.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 09, 2020, 04:43:38 AM
I think people should appreciate life! And be thankful that this virus is a pretty tame on.. you can bet your ass ONE day one will come along that will kill you within 24 hours NO cure and 10 billion people will die.. it will happen just a matter of time.. If not a big impact which will take out several countries in one go sending molten glass rain down for thousands of miles .. or a big air burst to immediately incinerate 1 million people.. take a look back in the planet history it happens all the time..

Everyone will get off lightly with this one.. next time maybe not..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 09, 2020, 08:21:14 AM
Silver Lining or Catastrophe...

2 weeks ago 3.2 million US job loss claims
1 week ago 6.6 million US job loss claims
This week 6.6 million US job loss claims....

Either we are flattening the USA job losses curve or the system can only handle max 6.6 million claims per week ...at this rate we will lose the approx 20 million jobs created since the 2008/2009 great recession in another week...

Will be curious to see total Covid19 crisis job losses... imeo a V shaped recovery looking like optimistic fantasy and I am an eternal optimist but in this situation cold harsh reality rules the day. Will be quite a while before we can recover the economy.

For the USA haters here... We all know who you are... Before you cream yourselves in schadenfreude ecstasy... Remember the UK as the largest foreign direct investor allowed in the USA ( versus the evil inscrutable CCP and their  brutal biowar against the world...) And the USA generates a majority of profits supporting the vaunted UK Social safety nets especially post Brexit and the on going disintegration of the EU as northern Europe continues their ruinous inhumane policies against southern Europe... So much for the EU 4th Reich...

The irony is Italy and Spain in their hour of greatest need were told to phorck off by Brussels and Berlin and have been driven into the open Arms of the Communist Red Freaking Chinese and their Belted Roads initiative... Will be interesting to see how long before the EU PIIGS GO FULL MARXISTS?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 09, 2020, 09:55:41 AM
For one & all. I know the music is Welsh but I associate the hymn with The Church of Scotland.


I'm sure Gillian Adams ( from Northern Ireland ) and the Church of IRELAND forgive you ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 09, 2020, 09:58:43 AM
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

From A Tale of Two Cities, C. Dickens
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 09, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
Silver Lining or Catastrophe...

2 weeks ago 3.2 million US job loss claims
1 week ago 6.6 million US job loss claims
This week 6.6 million US job loss claims....

Either we are flattening the USA job losses curve or the system can only handle max 6.6 million claims per week ...at this rate we will lose the approx 20 million jobs created since the 2008/2009 great recession in another week...

Americans, on average, are losing what they have earned from ChiNazi since they joined WTO.  If you still hesitate, you will lose everything to ChiNazi (through their agent Joe Biden in USA) by the end of year 2020.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 09, 2020, 11:41:49 AM
He’ll be fine. He was posting on Instagram yesterday. His pregnant girlfriend Carrie just recovered.

I’m not convinced it isn’t PR to make the underclass sit up and listen and obey the rules.

I saw him in the flesh a few months ago, he’s a big strong bloke in his early 50s. I doubt he’s going to fall off the twig just yet. And even if he is particularly susceptible, he has the best medical care that money can buy.

Meanwhile, sit up and pay attention, the German Queen has spoken.


FTFY.  I saw the TV documentary about the House of Windsor.  George I spoke no English.   (:) :duh: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2020, 11:55:00 AM
I think people should appreciate life! And be thankful that this virus is a pretty tame on..



COCID-19 infecting only a fraction of people in a matter of months has just become Americas leading cause of death.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/coronavirus-becomes-leading-cause-of-death-in-us/ar-BB12o7aQ?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 09, 2020, 11:59:58 AM
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

From A Tale of Two Cities, C. Dickens

You will note that the French Revolution produced the Reign of Terror.   The Russian Revolution produced the Bolsheviks.  The Great Depression produced the Nazis and Fascists.  These were all political and economic upheavals.  We now have a Biological agent.  It transcends political and economic AND geographical borders.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 09, 2020, 12:00:08 PM
Silver Lining or Catastrophe...

2 weeks ago 3.2 million US job loss claims
1 week ago 6.6 million US job loss claims
This week 6.6 million US job loss claims....

Either we are flattening the USA job losses curve or the system can only handle max 6.6 million claims per week ...at this rate we will lose the approx 20 million jobs created since the 2008/2009 great recession in another week...

Will be curious to see total Covid19 crisis job losses... imeo a V shaped recovery looking like optimistic fantasy and I am an eternal optimist but in this situation cold harsh reality rules the day. Will be quite a while before we can recover the economy.

For the USA haters here... We all know who you are... Before you cream yourselves in schadenfreude ecstasy... Remember the UK as the largest foreign direct investor allowed in the USA ( versus the evil inscrutable CCP and their  brutal biowar against the world...) And the USA generates a majority of profits supporting the vaunted UK Social safety nets especially post Brexit and the on going disintegration of the EU as northern Europe continues their ruinous inhumane policies against southern Europe... So much for the EU 4th Reich...

The irony is Italy and Spain in their hour of greatest need were told to phorck off by Brussels and Berlin and have been driven into the open Arms of the Communist Red Freaking Chinese and their Belted Roads initiative... Will be interesting to see how long before the EU PIIGS GO FULL MARXISTS?

Do you think there will be an EU 4th Reich in a few months or a year ?

The EU South started getting angry........ and will see what happens tonight!

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 09, 2020, 12:12:18 PM
He’ll be fine. He was posting on Instagram yesterday. His pregnant girlfriend Carrie just recovered.

I’m not convinced it isn’t PR to make the underclass sit up and listen and obey the rules.

I saw him in the flesh a few months ago, he’s a big strong bloke in his early 50s. I doubt he’s going to fall off the twig just yet. And even if he is particularly susceptible, he has the best medical care that money can buy.

Meanwhile, sit up and pay attention, the German Queen has spoken.


FTFY.  I saw the TV documentary about the House of Windsor.  George I spoke no English.   (:) :duh: :chuckle:


The queen is doing her part also in Windsor castle which has about 3 residents .. she does not need to try too hard.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 09, 2020, 12:16:19 PM
Quote
Another woman, Jazmin Carrillo, said she was jolted awake on the sidewalk earlier this week when two men tried to forcibly remove her pants.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mexicos-prostitutes-end-homeless-coronavirus-134421543.html

Besides Germany, other "women of the streets" are being left out in the cold.   (:)

Quote
But many experts throughout Sweden say the current strategy is dangerous.

“Herd immunity doesn’t make sense because we don’t know whether or not you can become immune,” says Nele Brusselaers, an associate professor of clinical epidemiology. She added, “this is a virus that can kill anybody.”

Quote
Sweden has a relatively high case fatality rate: as of April 8, 7.68% of the Swedes who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died of the virus. Neighboring countries, like Norway and Denmark, have case fatality rates of 1.46% and 3.85% respectively. (The U.S. case fatality rate is 3.21%.) While Sweden’s elevated case fatality rate could be a result of its low testing rates compared to its neighbors, experts say Sweden’s laissez-faire approach could also be to blame.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedens-relaxed-approach-coronavirus-could-143358386.html

Now it appears that the Swedish herd immunity strategy is not so good after all.   :chuckle: :-\ ??? :duh:

Quote
“Once in a while, one of these viruses wins the lottery,” he said.

Quote
“The majority is clearly European,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/most-york-coronavirus-cases-came-120729916.html

This again is the cause of the spread of the virus.  Global travelers from both coasts.  You have to revert back to the time prior to the start of the 20th century and follow the isolationist policy prior to the McKinley administration.

Quote
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

The horse has left the barn.   (:) :duh:

Quote
In the following weeks, cases began to skyrocket.  The likely epicenter: the funeral home.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hotspot-albany-georgia-funderals-covid-19-cases-per-capita-2020-4

You go to offer sympathy to the deceased and their loved ones.  And you end up becoming the "messenger of death" instead.   How ironic.

Most of the dead from the virus are being buried without any family or friends present.  This is the new age of self isolation.  Stop shaking hands.  Stop kissing cheeks.  Stop hugging. And stop spitting when talking, sneezing, or coughing.   :sick0012: :scared0005: :hidechair: :biggrin: (:) :P :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 09, 2020, 12:19:21 PM
I think people should appreciate life! And be thankful that this virus is a pretty tame on..



COCID-19 infecting only a fraction of people in a matter of months has just become Americas leading cause of death.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/coronavirus-becomes-leading-cause-of-death-in-us/ar-BB12o7aQ?ocid=spartanntp

Yeah but still it is nothing in the grand scale of things and for what and will come in the future .. some time in the future, your children or your children children children may face a full extinction event.. like wiped out the dinosaurs .. Im not saying the Covid 19 is not bad.. but it is just one of those things that happen every now and again..

We are all sat on a rock mere mortals orbiting one big mother ********* nuclear reactor .. some day something much much much worse will happen..thank god now that day is not today..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2020, 12:20:16 PM


China locked down another city. Says infections were imported from Russia so China closes Border with Russia. I don't think China will ever admit again infections increase domestically because they want everybody to believe they have it under control.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-closes-russia-border-puts-new-city-into-wuhan-style-lockdown/ar-BB12mi7f?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 09, 2020, 12:30:36 PM


China locked down another city. Says infections were imported from Russia so China closes Border with Russia. I don't think China will ever admit again infections increase domestically because they want everybody to believe they have it under control.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-closes-russia-border-puts-new-city-into-wuhan-style-lockdown/ar-BB12mi7f?ocid=spartanntp

So now we have the CCCP virus as well as the CCP virus?   (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 09, 2020, 01:08:12 PM
Quote
A group of adjoining neighborhoods — Corona , Elmhurst, East Elmhurst and Jackson Heights — have emerged as the epicenter of New York’s raging outbreak.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-tragedy-is-unfolding-inside-new-yorks-virus-epicenter/ar-BB12nGnX?li=BBnb7Kz

Is this just a coincidence?  Note that this area is close to LaGuardia airport.  :-\ :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 09, 2020, 01:28:34 PM
Hey… This crisis is really getting bad. Did you hear? Exxon and Mobil had to lay off 25 congressmen.

Badum bump...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 09, 2020, 08:06:56 PM
All will be well, Cuffy can still get his lobsta.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-04-09/new-hampshire-lobster-boats-stay-afloat-with-direct-sales
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 09, 2020, 08:30:22 PM
Some auto factories will open up in the first week in May. Trump assembles task force to open up increasing larger parts of the country in May. Estimates on number that will lose life in USA from Covid-19 is declining to be below what was thought best case. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 09, 2020, 10:06:09 PM

This made me chuckle...


Of course I responded ..

https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,27754.msg508618.html#msg508618 (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,27754.msg508618.html#msg508618)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 10, 2020, 01:08:01 AM
A Russian, living in the US ( who is hardly a fan of VVP and Co.)  published a tweet announcing that the 'true origin' of 'Koronoavirus' was in.....RUSSIA..

"It begins with a request "to distribute this video to everyone" and the words "first hand information ". In the video, Thorne says that 'Korona'  was developed at the Vector scientific centre in Novosibirsk, and the  explosion there in September 2019 was not an accident.

They blew it up specially so that the virus would enter the atmosphere.

Please note - then, the forests in Siberia caught fire !. They were also set on fire specifically, so that the smoke from the fire would catch the virus and take it to China. It was an operation of the shadow world government - well, the Masons - so that everyone would only talk about the virus. And because the Earth is flat ... it has ceased to spread, "
says Thorn.

At the end of the video, the blogger also mentions vaccinations, chipping, GMOs, George Soros, Bill Gates and cell tower irradiation, supposedly turning people into gays.


Now, ANYONE with a brain can see this is a witty poke at the conspiracy wackos of the world ... right ? ...


Thorne is now a wanted man (?)..  excuse the 'translation'

On the evening of April 7, the IC of the Russian Federation  announced the initiation of a criminal case "upon the dissemination of false information about coronavirus infection". The case was brought under article 207.1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - on the public dissemination of knowingly false information about the circumstances that constitute a threat. The relevant law - on criminal liability for false information about COVID-19 - which Russian President Vladimir Putin signed on April 1. The maximum penalty under  article 207.1 of the Criminal Code  is three years in prison. If a person died due to the spread of fakes, then punishment is up to five years.

The tweet is in Russian:
https://twitter.com/AlexanderThorn_/status/1247038927288008710


Source: https://meduza.io/feature/2020/04/09/na-rossiyan-nachali-vozbuzhdat-ugolovnye-dela-po-novoy-statie-o-feykah-pro-koronavirus-my-uznali-u-neskolkih-figurantov-takih-del-chto-proishodit (https://meduza.io/feature/2020/04/09/na-rossiyan-nachali-vozbuzhdat-ugolovnye-dela-po-novoy-statie-o-feykah-pro-koronavirus-my-uznali-u-neskolkih-figurantov-takih-del-chto-proishodit)


I realise this virus is serious, and some real IDIOTS are promoting the efficacy of certain meds, vitamin C ( and believe it ) but this guy was being (OBVIOUSLY) satirical .. not even blaming the Russian state ..

IF this news is true... it's a mad world at the mo ... it seems a might OTT ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 10, 2020, 03:42:35 AM
Yup...It's 'working'...SC has had similar msgs explaining it's all down to Bill Gates.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 10, 2020, 04:50:17 AM

Whether it is true or not, he has already got much adv commission.

You should spend some time on medical volunteer work rather than spreading these advertisement.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 10, 2020, 05:37:23 AM

Whether it is true or not, he has already got much adv commission.


1/ Sorry, who is 'HE' ? 

You should spend some time on medical volunteer work rather than spreading these advertisement.

2/ Given I have been self-isolating with my elderly Ma ( who has a form of dementia )  - which means I cannot 'volunteer' - thus risking her ... I suggest you might be reading posts here, somewhat selectively ..

On the other hand, I have read some of your ' advice' .. and have largely ignored it with a soft palm of hand to forehead motion .. 




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 10, 2020, 08:02:38 AM
Billy, if you are going to make statements of fact then you might want to check for accuracy before posting.

To help you with accuracy - again - China, along with other Asian states, has found that a significant number of recent infections have been either directly due to people returning to the countries, often expats and students, or have been people in contact with those new arrivals.

China has not said that new infections are ONLY due to recent arrivals making your claim factually incorrect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 10, 2020, 08:06:33 AM
Who cares where the virus came from. are you doing your part in not spreading it. 

Mobbie Virus wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone.  He certainly isn't gonna risk his own life volunteering...

Loyalman: 佢 係 一個王八蛋!  :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 10:12:01 AM
I realise this virus is serious, and some real IDIOTS are promoting the efficacy of certain meds, vitamin C ( and believe it ) but this guy was being (OBVIOUSLY) satirical .. not even blaming the Russian state ..


Vitamin C is not a cure or treatment. Vitamin C helps people's immunity systems. If a person has a weak immunity system, Vitamin C may help it get stronger. If a person's immunity system is already at 100%, Vitamin C won't help them.

China has not said that new infections are ONLY due to recent arrivals making your claim factually incorrect.


You been living in a bubble? China has regularly put out statements that there are no new infections domestically and they're ALL imported. You believe that is possible in a country with 1.4 billion people?

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202003/21/WS5e7568cca310128217280e48.html


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 10, 2020, 11:07:44 AM

Vitamin C is not a cure or treatment. Vitamin C helps people's immunity systems. If a person has a weak immunity system, Vitamin C may help it get stronger. If a person's immunity system is already at 100%, Vitamin C won't help them.

Thank you, 'Dr ( Not) BillyB

How many westerners suffer from scurvy ? ( Lack of Vitamin C)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 10, 2020, 12:54:36 PM
Moscow is currently the epicentre of RU's 'Korona' problems and the second city is, of course, suffering...

The Mayor of Moscow has taken draconian measures and may even track people's movements - given Russians are likely to think Rules are for someone else ...;)

The Regions followed, last week, many scared that the big city dwellers would head to them  - even banning Muscovites or folk from Piter  ..


So, what happens ? VVP calls in the regional governors and tels them ( a la Japan), that the economy cannot stop  ... The draconian quarantine measures must be lifted .. many ( not essential)  businesses will be allowed to reopen ...not hotels / cafes / restaurants ..YET ..


For once, I thought VVP had played this right ....

Now,  I'm SURE he hasn't ....  he's more concerned about the economy than folks getting infected - that's the only conclusion that can be made ... ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 10, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Quote
Russia’s officially reported numbers — which are still smaller than those in European countries — have sparked suspicion. Experts warn that Russia's testing capacity is hampered by bureaucracy, while officials warn that the real number of cases is likely much higher.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/09/830476803/russia-tops-10-000-coronavirus-cases-with-moscow-at-the-epicenter

More than 10,000 cases reported in Russia now.

Quote
This shows that COVID-19 also attacks the kidneys, not just the lungs”

“Many have already recovered from the disease. AKI patients should be seen regularly by nephrologists, because the risk of these patients developing chronic kidney disease is high. But given the involvement of kidneys during coronavirus infection, we should also monitor those patients who did not develop AKI, but proteinuria and/or hematuria. Otherwise there is a risk that the corona epidemic will be followed by an epidemic of chronic and end-stage kidney disease.”


https://www.cathlabdigest.com/content/are-kidneys-targeted-novel-coronavirus

Quote
The mortality rate was significantly higher among patients with SARS and acute renal impairment compared with those with SARS and no renal impairment (91.7% vs. 8.8%) (P < 0.0001). Renal tissues revealed predominantly acute tubular necrosis with no evidence of glomerular pathology. The adjusted relative risk of mortality associated with the development of acute renal impairment was 4.057 (P < 0.001). By multivariate analysis, acute respiratory distress syndrome and age were the most significant independent risk factors predicting the development of acute renal impairment in SARS.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15673319

The virus is going after your lung and kidney (the blood-oxygen barrier).  So you can end up with ESRD after recovering from an infection.  You will be permanently  :censored:  There are not many kidney donors.  Dialysis only goes so far.   :scared0005: :snivel: :( :sick0012:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 10, 2020, 04:57:05 PM

Vitamin C is not a cure or treatment. Vitamin C helps people's immunity systems. If a person has a weak immunity system, Vitamin C may help it get stronger. If a person's immunity system is already at 100%, Vitamin C won't help them.

Thank you, 'Dr ( Not) BillyB

How many westerners suffer from scurvy ? ( Lack of Vitamin C)

Dear me, I think everybody knows about vitamin C. If you increase your intake during colds, flu or other types of lurgy it is most helpful. At times like this it will do no harm to have more in your body. What's wrong with you? This is basic stuff everybody knows. Go buy some Berocca or some orange juice.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 05:31:00 PM

My wife is in nursing school. Due to college being postponed, her teacher went to work in the VA hospital. Through IV, they are injecting high doses of vitamin C into patients. Maybe Moby should visit the hospital and tell those doctors they are wasting their time since vitamin C works only to prevent scurvy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 10, 2020, 10:23:27 PM

I use a CPAP( continuous positive airway pressure) machine so I don't snore. My wife is a light sleeper. Got to keep her happy. I was wondering if a CPAP would help with those having a hard time breathing from COVID-19. I was surprised to find out CPAPs are actually being used in NY, China, Italy and other countries hospitals as a second option to ventilators. About half the people having a hard time breathing don't need a ventilator and a CPAP is enough for them. CPAPs are also much cheaper. If any of you get COVID-19 and decide to battle it at home instead of a hospital, it would be beneficial for you to have your own CPAP.

http://aasm.org/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-cpap-sleep-apnea-patients/

http://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/clearwater-company-donates-2500-cpap-machines-to-fight-covid-19/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 11, 2020, 04:50:25 AM
The was sent to me by a medical professional. Interesting read:

http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 11, 2020, 05:54:17 AM

Dear me, I think everybody knows about vitamin C. If you increase your intake during colds, flu or other types of lurgy it is most helpful. At times like this it will do no harm to have more in your body. What’s wrong with you? This is basic stuff everybody knows. Go buy some Berocca or some orange juice.


If one is eating normally, taking extra Vitamin C will indeed do you no harm...  it will NOT stop you getting the virus ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 11, 2020, 06:49:32 AM

My wife is in nursing school. Due to college being postponed, her teacher went to work in the VA hospital. Through IV, they are injecting high doses of vitamin C into patients. Maybe Moby should visit the hospital and tell those doctors they are wasting their time since vitamin C works only to prevent scurvy.

Yeah Im also having plenty of vitamin C.. two big glasses every day with a few spoonfuls of honey.. and some vitamin D.. just in case I got to fight it been doing so about 5 weeks now..

If your a smoker it probably is not worth trying to give yourself a better immune system sos your lungs are already f****d
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 11, 2020, 06:52:45 AM
Billy, I assume that you have no idea about how a cpap machine works because it would be a very bad idea to rely upon one of those in your home. If you knew how this equipment worked you'd not make such an erroneous claim!

There's several reasons:
A cpap machine works by pumping large amounts of air at you. That's great and if you have minor respiratory issues then you can get benefit. If however you need oxygen which is the stuff that keeps you alive then the cpap is no use to you at all because it does not give your lungs much more of what they need.
Secondly, the output of the machine goes right into the air that everyone else is breathing. The effect is not a problem in normal use. If you have covid-19 then the effect is to aerosolise the virus in your lungs and airway spreading it around your living space. You'll be infecting everyone else in the house.

There's third reason, less direct but still very significant: if you try to use such a device rather than getting proper care you will delay your access to proper treatment. As you might have learned, once your respiration starts to fail with covid-19 the progression is very fast. If you have wasted time with this foolishness you may well find that by the time you get to proper care that it's too late.

The only time that a cpap machine for your snoring is going to be a rational choice is when hospitals are so overcrowded that there's no chance of getting proper care. Even in that case, if you need respiratory support, you're still going to die as the disease progresses. You're still going to infect others. The people you care about will still get infected.

You might have been confused by having read about cpap machines being modified for use in hospitals (Wired Magazine has a decent article on the topic). In order to use cpap in hospitals, typically for patients coming off ventilation, a modification is made to divert the output from the patient's lungs through a filter to stop the spread of the virus into the air.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 11, 2020, 07:30:42 AM
The was sent to me by a medical professional. Interesting read:

http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb

What sort of medical 'professional' ... a janitor ?

It is ignorant hogwash :

My eldest has a form of Lupus - thet means I know a 'little' about HCQ and the MUPPETS removing stock for those who REALLY need it


I sent your article to a Surgeon of with 43 years front line experience and this was the exchange .


(https://i.imgur.com/rwniDRZ.jpg)


Naturally, you'll 'doubt' the veracity of the person's qualies .. andrewfi made that mistake .. he is a fellow Director of an England and Wales Ltd company... Two doctors  ..one Russian, one Brit with a Microbiologist joining,  soon  ..


WHAT is it with folks posting utter guff about this virus and 'solutions' ?


They'd be better off quoting the Lancet / BMJ and viewing the results of such 'trials' 


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 11, 2020, 08:27:18 AM
I think people need to worry more about something else that will happen sooner or later, if you do some research your going to be much more frighted than a flu virus going around..

https://www.meteorcrater.com

Arizona 50,000 years ago enough to wipe the USA off the face of the earth..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event.   Siberia 150 years ago air burst..

The clock is ticking!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 08:50:21 AM

A cpap machine works by pumping large amounts of air at you. That's great and if you have minor respiratory issues then you can get benefit. If however you need oxygen which is the stuff that keeps you alive then the cpap is no use to you at all because it does not give your lungs much more of what they need.


A ventilator pump oxygen and pressure into the lungs. A CPAP puts pressured air into the lungs. Pressure is important since it helps lungs absorb air. Most people with COVID-19 don't need a hospital or a ventilator.

Secondly, the output of the machine goes right into the air that everyone else is breathing. The effect is not a problem in normal use. If you have covid-19 then the effect is to aerosolise the virus in your lungs and airway spreading it around your living space. You'll be infecting everyone else in the house.


So the air you breathe doesn't go into the air everybody else is breathing? There are family members that have decided to leave the house or at least wear a mask if they decide to stay in the house with an infected family member to take care of them. To stand next to somebody with COVID-19 without protection is stupidity.

There's third reason, less direct but still very significant: if you try to use such a device rather than getting proper care you will delay your access to proper treatment. As you might have learned, once your respiration starts to fail with covid-19 the progression is very fast. If you have wasted time with this foolishness you may well find that by the time you get to proper care that it's too late.


There is NO TREATMENT for COVID-19. Your immune system has to beat the virus. A hospital can only provide a patient with a ventilator, pain killer and other options to provide comfort and boost a person's immunity system. A ventilator helps get the body organs oxygen so a person doesn't die. Some patients go into cardiac arrest because their lungs can't get enough oxygen. If a person at home goes into serious condition before critical condition, they can call 911 and get to the hospital in minutes but for most people who are battling the virus at home and want to make sure their organs are getting as much oxygen as possible, a CPAP can help. Doctors are using them now.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 11, 2020, 09:37:37 AM

There is no treatment for COVID-19

I'll be sure to tell our PM that ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 10:07:29 AM

It's official. Today President Trump ordered a “robust assistance package” to be sent to Italy. Besides helping Italy with medical personnel and supplies, we will help rebuild their economy. Who needs help next?

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/492339-trump-orders-robust-assistance-package-for-italy
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 11, 2020, 10:46:34 AM

It's official. Today President Trump ordered a “robust assistance package” to be sent to Italy.

About two weeks after Russia.

Why are you lot apparently helping others when your own country is creaking at the seams with this?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 11, 2020, 10:53:43 AM
Billy, as I noted before, you do not know what you are going on about. Get back to me when you have done some learning. I can't be arsed to correct you ALL the time, I have a life.

If you are a representative of 'average' over there then it is no surprise that there are big issues within your leadership when it comes to understanding what is going on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 11:02:36 AM
Why are you lot apparently helping others when your own country is creaking at the seams with this?


We aren't. Regardless of what you read from anti Trump fake news, we have an abundance of supplies and they will be shipped to other countries. We have an abundance of money to help others too.

About two weeks after Russia.


Apparently Russia's help was not enough and Russia isn't capable of helping anymore. From the article"

Italy requested the aid from the U.S., according to the White House. The aid granted by the U.S. comes in the form of technical assistance for Italy’s health sector through the Department of Health and Human Services, support for Italian businesses as well as international organizations and NGOs.

America is going to help rebuild Italy's economy besides providing medical supplies and personnel. America will probably help the UK and other allies besides helping less fortunately nations in South America and Africa. Why? Because we have the most money and we are nice guys. If we fail to find a vaccine for this virus, the world will go into a depression and eventually we will run out of money and we won't be able to help each other. Nations will be hating each other, become weak, and humanity will enter into another phase of world war.

Billy, as I noted before, you do not know what you are going on about. Get back to me when you have done some learning. I can't be arsed to correct you ALL the time, I have a life.


Before you think you're qualified to correct other people, you must learn to correct yourself. Do you want to revise your prediction in my signature line? Have you done the proper reading to become educated about the behavior of this coronavirus yet? If so, are you willing to make changes to how you think so you don't make the same mistakes anymore?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 11, 2020, 11:16:36 AM
Why are you lot apparently helping others when your own country is creaking at the seams with this?


We aren't. Regardless of what you read from anti Trump fake news, we have an abundance of supplies and they will be shipped to other countries. We have an abundance of money to help others too.

About two weeks after Russia.


Apparently Russia's help was not enough and Russia isn't capable of helping anymore. From the article"

Italy requested the aid from the U.S., according to the White House. The aid granted by the U.S. comes in the form of technical assistance for Italy’s health sector through the Department of Health and Human Services, support for Italian businesses as well as international organizations and NGOs.

America is going to help rebuild Italy's economy besides providing medical supplies and personnel. America will probably help the UK and other allies besides helping less fortunately nations in South America and Africa. Why? Because we have the most money and we are nice guys. If we fail to find a vaccine for this virus, the world will go into a depression and eventually we will run out of money and we won't be able to help each other. Nations will be hating each other, become weak, and humanity will enter into another phase of world war.

I'd suggest most of that is nonsense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on April 11, 2020, 11:39:01 AM
Billy something is not right with this, i call BS
Trump ordered 3M to stop shipping masks to Canada
On orders we already had and buy from them constantly.

Now he is sending stuff to Italy, something isn't right.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 11, 2020, 12:19:56 PM
All will be well, Cuffy can still get his lobsta.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-04-09/new-hampshire-lobster-boats-stay-afloat-with-direct-sales

Got to love the live Free or Die state...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 11, 2020, 12:27:23 PM

Interesting interview...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 11, 2020, 12:34:40 PM
Looks like the US Space Force on high alert for possible outer space alien invasion of earth in our weakened state...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fliegerfaust.com/amp/airline-news---2645648431

According to multiple reliable sources the governments of boththe United States and Canada are about to announce the shutdown of their airspace to everything but private cargo, government, law enforcement and military aircrafts. The decision should be made public in the next few days.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Billy something is not right with this, i call BS
Trump ordered 3M to stop shipping masks to Canada
On orders we already had and buy from them constantly.

Now he is sending stuff to Italy, something isn't right.

That's old news. 5 days ago Trump and 3M made an agreement that America gets a certain amount of masks and then they can ship the rest to countries all over the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/us-blocks-face-masks-canada-n95-protection-equipment

Trump stopped the shipment to Canada simply because of 3M's behavior of not taking care of America's needs first. 3M was getting greedy$$$ and cut back their supplies to America. Trump stopped that behavior. Nothing against Canada and Trump is not hoarding all the supplies for America. He just wants enough to do the job. We now have enough, Trump can send surplus to nations that need it most and allow American companies to sell to whoever they want.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on April 11, 2020, 01:22:49 PM
Billy something is not right with this, i call BS
Trump ordered 3M to stop shipping masks to Canada
On orders we already had and buy from them constantly.

Now he is sending stuff to Italy, something isn't right.

That's old news. 5 days ago Trump and 3M made an agreement that America gets a certain amount of masks and then they can ship the rest to countries all over the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/us-blocks-face-masks-canada-n95-protection-equipment

Trump stopped the shipment to Canada simply because of 3M's behavior of not taking care of America's needs first. 3M was getting greedy$$$ and cut back their supplies to America. Trump stopped that behavior. Nothing against Canada and Trump is not hoarding all the supplies for America. He just wants enough to do the job. We now have enough, Trump can send surplus to nations that need it most and allow American companies to sell to whoever they want.
I think a deal got done, but not the point, should not have happened
besides 3/4 of Ventilators made for the US comes from Canadian manufacturers
likely best we keep shipping both ways.

Funny how some have forgot 911.
In one of your worst moments in history
Canada was there for US.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 11, 2020, 01:38:02 PM
Quote
In those who survived mild and severe disease alike, the researchers found that many of the biological measures had “failed to return to normal.”

“It can affect the heart, the liver, the kidneys, the brain, the endocrine system and the blood system.”


There are no long-term survivors of this wholly new disease.

Another question that could take years to answer is whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 may lie dormant in the body for years and spring back later in different form.
It wouldn't be the first virus to behave that way. After a chicken pox infection, for instance, the herpes virus that causes the illness hides quietly for decades and often emerges as the painful affliction shingles. The virus that causes hepatitis B can sow the seeds of liver cancer years later. And in the months after the West African Ebola epidemic subsided in 2016, the virus responsible for that illness was found to have taken up residence in the vitreous fluid of some of its victims' eyes, causing blindness or vision impairment in 40% of those affected.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-infection-may-cause-lasting-220307511.html


Think this will be a "passing fad"?   You are going to be permanently   :censored:   :snivel: :duh:

Viruses don't go away.  They just go to sleep and then mutate themselves to attack you many years later.
The laws of evolution and survival of the fittest.  Viruses will be up to challenge until you can no longer cope.

 :bow: :evilgrin0002: :scared0005: :o :snivel: :hidechair: :biggrin: :Zzzzsleep: :drunk: :sick0012: :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 11, 2020, 01:44:28 PM
America is going to help rebuild Italy's economy
Good luck with that. Europe tried for decades but italy is like a woman with a hole in her hand. Moneywise theyre simply beyond help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
Funny how some have forgot 911.
In one of your worst moments in history
Canada was there for US.


Every nation is going through something worse than America's 9/11. It's not an event that will last a few minutes. We all will lose lives and economy for the next few years. Hopefully we can reduce the pace since we don't have the means to stop the virus. We need to save ourselves and our own families from drowning before we save others. If America helps Italy fight the virus and help their economy recover, I'm sure America will do it for all its friends but we can't do it if we have our own fires to put out. Things are calming down here now to where the manufacturing of supplies exceeds the needs and supplies can be sent elsewhere.

America is going to help rebuild Italy's economy
Good luck with that. Europe tried for decades but italy is like a woman with a hole in her hand. Moneywise theyre simply beyond help.

You have a good point Italy isn't managing their economy very well. Trump will probably help just enough so Italy's economy doesn't go completely under but after that, it's up to Italy to change its economic policies to get ahead.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 11, 2020, 02:09:18 PM
I think people need to worry more about something else that will happen sooner or later, if you do some research your going to be much more frighted than a flu virus going around..

https://www.meteorcrater.com

Arizona 50,000 years ago enough to wipe the USA off the face of the earth..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event.   Siberia 150 years ago air burst..

The clock is ticking!

This was the main plot in the movie "Armageddon".   When the meteor comes near the planet, they expect to deploy a similar solution for it.  They will detonate large amounts of explosives that will divert its path to avoid the planet.   :-\ :biggrin: :chuckle:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_(1998_film)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 11, 2020, 02:17:46 PM
Looks like the US Space Force on high alert for possible outer space alien invasion of earth in our weakened state...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fliegerfaust.com/amp/airline-news---2645648431

According to multiple reliable sources the governments of boththe United States and Canada are about to announce the shutdown of their airspace to everything but private cargo, government, law enforcement and military aircrafts. The decision should be made public in the next few days.


Quote
“Russian intelligence service is always probing vulnerabilities among adversaries. It’s not surprising even in the midst of a pandemic where they are supposed to be focusing on their own safety and health, they’re scrutinizing our supply chain vulnerabilities, our critical  infrastructure vulnerabilities and so forth,”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/exclusive-russia-collecting-intelligence-on-us-supply-line-failures-amid-coronavirus-crisis-dhs-warns/ar-BB12si33

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/03/italy-and-russia-spar-over-alleged-coronavirus-spies-a69869

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.   (:) :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 11, 2020, 02:37:48 PM
Quote
While bird flu is generally not a threat to humans, it’s a nightmare for farmers as it can strike seemingly at random, sometimes from the sky.  It’s often transmitted by falcons or migratory birds who defecate mid-flight over farms.

If the virus does begin to spread, it will put the US meat industry in the harrowing spot of navigating two very different viruses at the same time.


https://qz.com/1836482/us-farmers-on-high-alert-after-usda-confirms-bird-flu-case/

Another strain to deal with.  This time it is targeting both you and your food supply.   :duh: :scared0005: :bow: :snivel:

Guano is good.   :chuckle: (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 11, 2020, 03:51:10 PM
Looks like the USA broke the 2000 deaths/day mark today. In that rate, they will surpass any flu in record time.

Especially since the curve doesn't seem to be slowing down yet for good ol'e USA.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 11, 2020, 04:04:31 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York (population 8.3m) alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK (real population circa 80m - declared population 66m) has been 900 a day in recent days.

That puts New York about 7-9 times more per capita deaths than the UK.

The price of Trump's inaction.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on April 11, 2020, 04:16:38 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK has been 900 a day in recent days.

The latest cart that I am looking at says total deaths for the US is 20,467.  for the UK it is 9,875.  Looks scary for the US.  Oh, wait,  the UK population is 1/5 of the US. 

total deaths for the USA is   62 per 1 million.

total deaths for the UK   is 145 per 1 million.

UK has a much higher death rate than the US.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 11, 2020, 04:21:21 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK has been 900 a day in recent days.

The latest cart that I am looking at says total deaths for the US is 20,467.  for the UK it is 9,875.  Looks scary for the US.  Oh, wait,  the UK population is 1/5 of the US. 

total deaths for the USA is   62 per 1 million.

total deaths for the UK   is 145 per 1 million.

UK has a much higher death rate than the US.
You may think that, but the USA is now in its 2nd week of serious infection/death rate. (counting 30 march as the day it really took lives)

The UK is in the 3d. (counting 25 march as the day the grim reaper got busy.)

Yesterda, USA had 57 deaths/1 million, today 62. Thats 5 surplus for 1 day. give it 10 days and you're on 110 and that is if the rate doesn't increase, but from the statistics it increases for at least 2 weeks.

I may like trump alot, but he is wrong on this virus, just like everyone treating it as 'just another boring flu'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 11, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York (population 8.3m) alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK (real population circa 80m - declared population 66m) has been 900 a day in recent days.

That puts New York about 7-9 times more per capita deaths than the UK.

The price of Trump’s China's inaction and deceit.

Fixed that for you. tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 11, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK has been 900 a day in recent days.

The latest cart that I am looking at says total deaths for the US is 20,467.  for the UK it is 9,875.  Looks scary for the US.  Oh, wait,  the UK population is 1/5 of the US. 

total deaths for the USA is   62 per 1 million.

total deaths for the UK   is 145 per 1 million.

UK has a much higher death rate than the US.

Our deaths will now plateau and then fall, the US will continue to rise.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 04:30:19 PM
Looks like the USA broke the 2000 deaths/day mark today. In that rate, they will surpass any flu in record time.


2000 deaths a day will make COVId-19 the #1 killer of Americans. It will probably end up the #1 killer for any country, especially if left unchecked.

I just heard on the radio news that New York (population 8.3m) alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK (real population circa 80m - declared population 66m) has been 900 a day in recent days.

That puts New York about 7-9 times more per capita deaths than the UK.

The price of Trump’s inaction.

Mayor of NY tweeted early March for people to go out on the town. Schools in NY weren't closed until a week before stay at home order due to teachers threatening to walk out. Governor and Mayor are Democrats. How is that Trump's fault? Those State and local leaders have the ability to make their own decisions in their regions based off expert advice from their own health departments. Trump can close a nation but not a State. UK is close to having 3 times more deaths per capita than America soon. I've been watching the beginning of the outbreak for both countries. The UK is behind America in the curve. The UK will ask America for help before America asks the UK for help.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Quote from: Markje link=topic=28644.msg508756#msg508756
I may like trump alot, but he is wrong on this virus, just like everyone treating it as 'just another boring flu'


Trump banned foreign nationals back in January. I don't think he treated it like the flu. He does have a responsibility to not cause panic so he doesn't tell the whole truth about how dangerous the virus is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 11, 2020, 04:38:43 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK has been 900 a day in recent days.

The latest cart that I am looking at says total deaths for the US is 20,467.  for the UK it is 9,875.  Looks scary for the US.  Oh, wait,  the UK population is 1/5 of the US. 

total deaths for the USA is   62 per 1 million.

total deaths for the UK   is 145 per 1 million.

UK has a much higher death rate than the US.

Our deaths will now plateau and then fall, the US will continue to rise.

Perhaps or I believe Andrew pointed out this reality. Deaths will continue to rise as new infections increase. Using diverse metrics new infections both in the US and UK are decreasing. Yes for another week to even three weeks the rate of death will increase but will than decrease, perhaps even sharply.

The numbers from Russia, primarily Moscow are fugly and you will see on both deaths and new infections sadly increase. Again the blame can be laid at the feet of politicians and there (in)actions. Such is the world be inhabit.

Another issue that is interesting. If one compares the numbers of Greece to Italy or Spain the Greeks it appear to have done a decent job at containment so far.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 11, 2020, 05:13:47 PM
I just heard on the radio news that New York (population 8.3m) alone now has 700 deaths a day for several consecutive days.

By comparison, the whole of the UK (real population circa 80m - declared population 66m) has been 900 a day in recent days.

That puts New York about 7-9 times more per capita deaths than the UK.

The price of Trump’s inaction.

Mayor of NY tweeted early March for people to go out on the town. Schools in NY weren't closed until a week before stay at home order due to teachers threatening to walk out. Governor and Mayor are Democrats. How is that Trump's fault? Those State and local leaders have the ability to make their own decisions in their regions based off expert advice from their own health departments.

Fair point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 11, 2020, 05:28:24 PM

Our deaths will now plateau and then fall, the US will continue to rise.

It is not Trump's fault with what is happening in New York. Local residents just will not follow the rules. AvHdb really explained it well.  Without any government intervention the number of deaths in the US if he had the hospitals and to handle the infection rate would be about 2,000,000. What would really happen would be many time that number maybe ten million because we would have no medical care for anyone. Trump and the different level of government change the number from ten million deaths to sixty thousand by August. How can you say he and the many other levels of government did nothing. They have saved millions of lives. Lets do a swap. Let take the hottish spot in UK and compare it the entire USA per capital and see how well you guys do. Yes New York is holding level at 700 deaths per day which is expecting to be it's peak. That is over a third of our entire country.

Something very important is happening here. That is the high risk neighborhoods in New York and several other cities are building up a heard immunity where they will not be as acceptable to future breakouts. This will make future break outs and hot spots easier to control. Until there is a vaccine this virus will be with us and will always be coming back. Right now we are expecting about 6 million infections by August though many may not be counted as they were not tested. When we reach about 200,000,000 infections or more or we have a vaccine there will be no end of this virus.  All governments can do is slow the rate of infections to where hospital can care for the people.

On the island of Roatan in Honduras they keeping everyone off the island who does not live there. They have zero infections. The trouble is they have a huge problem. They have no heard immunity and are dependent of tourist for the way of life. They are going to have a rough year or more until there is a vaccine or they decide to let the virus on the island. They will be no time in the next year or longer will it be safe to let tourist on the island. It will only take one infected person and it will run wild. They have almost no medical care.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 05:39:59 PM
The numbers from Russia, primarily Moscow are fugly and you will see on both deaths and new infections sadly increase. Again the blame can be laid at the feet of politicians and there (in)actions. Such is the world be inhabit.


If a nation reports low infections and deaths, there won't be any blaming politicians, there will be praise. Laos, Vietnam, and N Korea all are Communist nations and all border China. They all report low infections and no deaths from coronavirus. They don't have the same problem Western nations do. Probably because of their superior leadership and medical institutions.

Fair point.


Most of the media in America bash Trump and anything that goes wrong. Media on your side of the pond probably do the same thing to Trump. If any wrong has happened in response to the coronavirus crisis, it's because of decisions made at the lower levels. Surprisingly Trump has not micromanaged this crisis. He has delegated responsibility to leaders at the lower level and he has tasked the federal government to play a support role. The federal government goes out and secure medical supplies although it may seem unfair to some countries. The federal government distributes those supplies to states based on needs and projected needs and their decisions may seem unfair to states. There's not one leader in this world that can make perfect decisions. The virus is going to win some battles in every country and there will be plenty of finger pointing going around claiming more can be done or a better way could've happened.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 06:03:50 PM
the high risk neighborhoods in New York and several other cities are building up a heard immunity where they will not be as acceptable to future breakouts.


NY accounts for a third of America's deaths and almost half the infections. Most of the deaths and infections are coming from black and Hispanic neighborhoods. I'm not sure they will develop immunity. We are still learning about the virus. 51 S Koreans had the virus, tested negative but later they tested positive for the virus again. Their immune system and antibodies failed to keep the virus from coming back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 11, 2020, 06:12:47 PM
There is a possible trend emerging that blacks and Middle Eastern folk aren’t doing as well as whites against the virus.

I’m not sure about Hispanics as they are not an ethnic group that is widely represented in Europe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 11, 2020, 06:29:31 PM
 Do I understand this correctly? The EU is trying to push countries to keep on accepting migrants right in the middle of the Corona crisis? Does anyone besides me think that that's ridiculous? Countries are having enough problems controlling the virus among their own population without having more unknown risk coming in!  :rolleye0009:

 

https://neonnettle.com/news/10900-austria-rejects-eu-migrant-quota-blocks-all-asylum-requests-it-remains-a-no-

The Austrian government says it is maintaining its strict policy on migration and not accepting any more asylum seekers, despite orders from the EU.The announcement follows pressure from some 150 NGOs, who are demanding the country opens up its border to Middle Eastern illegal migrants stuck in Greece during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 11, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
There is a possible trend emerging that blacks and Middle Eastern folk aren’t doing as well as whites against the virus.

I’m not sure about Hispanics as they are not an ethnic group that is widely represented in Europe.

Up thread I mentioned the effect that Corona has on certain ethnic groups in New York City. Some is to due life style and what is normal for the culture. Sadly the Wuhan gift has not understood that. In New York there is little hard numbers for specific ethnic groups. PC and all that BS.

It will NOT surprise me the same dynamics are at play in Iran and other countries that have high infection rates.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 11, 2020, 07:18:52 PM
There is a possible trend emerging that blacks and Middle Eastern folk aren’t doing as well as whites against the virus.

I’m not sure about Hispanics as they are not an ethnic group that is widely represented in Europe.

Numbers in the link below. Blacks and Hispanics account for 62% of the deaths in NYC. Our Surgeon General, who is black, said minorities tend to have more health problems such as diabetes and heart disease and coupled with COVID-19 increases their chance for death.

https://abc7ny.com/black-americans-coronavirus-nyc-update-corona-virus/6086065/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 11, 2020, 08:09:18 PM

Numbers in the link below. Blacks and Hispanics account for 62% of the deaths in NYC. Our Surgeon General, who is black, said minorities tend to have more health problems such as diabetes and heart disease and coupled with COVID-19 increases their chance for death.

https://abc7ny.com/black-americans-coronavirus-nyc-update-corona-virus/6086065/

AvHdB wrote

Regarding New York City where the majority of the New York cases are from; two population groups are especially being affected, the Hasidic and the Jamaican/Haitian communities. Both groups are quite tightly 'knit and close'. Being suspicious and superstitious does not exactly help at this moment.   

The problem with these groups is not genetics, per existing conditions or access to health care but life style. Saying the truth is politically incorrect or considered racist. Many single parent families and children on auto pilot, very social cultural, also a lot of drug users, a lot of nearly random  sex all help the virus move more freely. There is little responsibly toward to protecting grandparents raising teen age children. Most of the hot spots in the USA are like this just smaller. More people with per existing conditions end up getting infected in these type of neighborhoods.  I bet many of your infections in the UK are the people who will not social distance, will not follow the rules and live in cities. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 11, 2020, 09:02:36 PM
Another issue that is interesting. If one compares the numbers of Greece to Italy or Spain the Greeks it appear to have done a decent job at containment so far.
The Greek Government, aware of the Greek bad habits, realised that to keep the numbers down they had to take some very harsh actions.

a) First they Banned all flights to and from Italy.

b) Closed all bars, cafe, restaurants and banned visiting the Beaches. Additionally banned travelling back to their house in the village, without an important reason...like old age parents and of course imposed fines of 150 EU for people running around without a good reason..... It is clear that the fines have stopped them as they cannot afford to pay them, and the police it's not very polite.

c) Many rich people, like shipowners, etc have given many millions to various Hospitals, and to the Government to help, buying masks etc from China.

Of course the Greeks are clever and made sure that USA or anybody else will not confiscate any supplies...so they bought the staff and brought is back secretly, before CIA or anybody else find out. Anyhow the Chinese are desperate to have full access and use of the port in Pireas  to supply Europe.......so two planes arrived quitely in Athens.

d) Finally shut down the churches.. football etc. and this is the result now:

Todate Total Cases  2,081   Dead 93. Actually the number of dead is in line with the usual winter flu cases....... and if you add the car accidents on a year long basis.....the number of Dead people is very low.

Let's see what will happen next w/end.... Greek Easter.
 tiphat





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 05:20:20 AM
Why? Because we have the most money and we are nice guys.

Oh that cheered me up!  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 05:33:25 AM
There is a possible trend emerging that blacks and Middle Eastern folk aren’t doing as well as whites against the virus.

I’m not sure about Hispanics as they are not an ethnic group that is widely represented in Europe.

I saw the BBC harping on about this yesterday, they wrote lots of articles and banged the, we must do more for the ethnic minority communities, drum.

I’ve yet to see them get wound up about males being the highest risk group.  :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 05:42:38 AM
Do I understand this correctly? The EU is trying to push countries to keep on accepting migrants right in the middle of the Corona crisis? Does anyone besides me think that that's ridiculous? Countries are having enough problems controlling the virus among their own population without having more unknown risk coming in!  :rolleye0009:

 

https://neonnettle.com/news/10900-austria-rejects-eu-migrant-quota-blocks-all-asylum-requests-it-remains-a-no-

The Austrian government says it is maintaining its strict policy on migration and not accepting any more asylum seekers, despite orders from the EU.The announcement follows pressure from some 150 NGOs, who are demanding the country opens up its border to Middle Eastern illegal migrants stuck in Greece during the COVID-19 pandemic.

It’s not ridiculous, it’s insane and unfair on everyone. Still, the EU progressives need to push ahead with their bizarre, unaccountable agenda.

Since COVID-19 hit the streets in Europe, we’ve seen all the member states go back to making their own rules, that suit their own country. Sovereignty has returned and the EU up until now has done little to help the bloc. In fact they’ve been shipping money and supplies to anyone but it’s tax payers.

We see the real strength of a group during crisis and Austria rejecting the next horde of Muslim migrants only undermines the EU again. Wait for the black mail threats to sneak in under the MSM radar.

The beginning of the end.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 12, 2020, 05:45:19 AM


I saw the BBC harping on about this yesterday, they wrote lots of articles and banged the, we must do more for the ethnic minority communities, drum.

I’ve yet to see them get wound up about males being the highest risk group.  :whist11:

Rosco, as ever, misrepresents the BBC news and Manny 'forgot' the disproportionate deaths of folks from south central Asia.

For sure, given the disproportionate Heath workers dying ..it NEEDS investigating

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 12, 2020, 05:52:13 AM
Do I understand this correctly?

Sort of ..

The NGOs are asking for EU nations to respect the Directive on handling refugee crisis's

The CoJ ruled on member states behaviour in 2015/6

Turkey DELIBERATELY helped refugees head west to Greece' borders


The UK was not a signatory to the agreement to share the load..

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/europe/european-court-refugees-hungary-poland-czech-republic.html

This virus came along to make matters worse

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 06:09:44 AM


I saw the BBC harping on about this yesterday, they wrote lots of articles and banged the, we must do more for the ethnic minority communities, drum.

I’ve yet to see them get wound up about males being the highest risk group.  :whist11:

Rosco, as ever, misrepresents the BBC news and Manny 'forgot' the disproportionate deaths of folks from south central Asia.

For sure, given the disproportionate Heath workers dying ..it NEEDS investigating

Misrepresenting the BBC by pointing out facts, classic Moby fail. What you actually mean is that it doesn’t sit well with your hand ringing, leftist bias.

It’s hilarious how your mental illness prevents you from seeing your very own hypocrisy. You’re all over the disproportionate deaths when it comes to ethnic minorities but turn a blind eye to the crime stats!! You’re fooked again Mobs.... :coffeeread:

Like a fly to shyte, the paddy pensioner swoops in with more madness.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 06:12:19 AM
Do I understand this correctly?

Sort of ..

The NGOs are asking for EU nations to respect the Directive on handling refugee crisis's

The CoJ ruled on member states behaviour in 2015/6

Turkey DELIBERATELY helped refugees head west to Greece' borders


The UK was not a signatory to the agreement to share the load..

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/europe/european-court-refugees-hungary-poland-czech-republic.html

This virus came along to make matters worse

Probably the softest and most obtuse justification for EU blackmail & corruption in a time of crisis. Virus the Paddy Pensioner strikes again!!  :fighting0025:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 12, 2020, 06:16:58 AM


Misrepresenting the BBC by pointing out facts,

Except they weren't ....  Where's been any link to prove what d672 suggested and you 'agreed' with ?

'Thank you'

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 12, 2020, 06:47:16 AM
Best to get yourself fit and ready to do battle!!

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/fitness-obesity-exercise-coronavirus-fatality-112353317.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 12, 2020, 06:58:41 AM


Those currently 'knocking' WHO will wish the UK ( and USA) listened to their mantra .. TEST, TEST, TEST ..


Germany managed it ....

Coronavirus: UK could be 'worst affected' country in Europe


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859)


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 07:29:42 AM


Misrepresenting the BBC by pointing out facts,

Except they weren't ....  Where's been any link to prove what d672 suggested and you 'agreed' with ?

'Thank you'

Oh Mystic, this is too painful to watch, even for you. Many think that you're just an argumentative old fool, others think that you're just not very bright. I'm inclined to believe there's a bit of both mixed in with a chip on the shoulder.

- You've asked me to provide a link proving what D672 suggested is true. He was discussing the EU and its muslim refugee import quotas.

- You've quoted me discussing the BBC with Manny, and its representation of ethnic minorities and corona deaths. 2 very different topics.

You've got yourself all confused after only 2 simple posts and quite frankly its not fair asking the adults around you to stop, rewind and explain at every step. If you cant keep up either politely ask an adult to explain it to you in layman's terms or perhaps you need to hang about with people a little more slow of the mark, like yourself?

I'm sure mouth breathing and thumping on your keyboard is challenging for you and its certainly a concern that you've been placed in charge of your demented mother, but we all agree that you probably need the careers allowance to keep your current, absent wife in flax seeds. Just think of others before lumbering the RUA members with bizarre, confused posts.

Good lad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 12, 2020, 08:37:55 AM
Lots of words from Rosco ...

Can you even remember what I asked for?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 12, 2020, 09:41:42 AM
Anyhow the Chinese are desperate to have full access and use of the port in Pireas  to supply Europe.

The Wizzwaankster freely admitted that Greece is a Communist Freaking Red Chinese Belt and Roads Colony... The Wizzbot waanks on about CIA hoarding PPE as his Chinese superiors have been proven to have criminally hoarded worldwide... Soon China will flood Millions of replacement workers into Greece like they did Italy that worked quite well for their Covid biowar and then the entire EU and UK... Look at the bright side the Communist Freaking Red Chinese are highly skilled in recycling Islamist minorities into Mass organ donors for aging EUians at a huge EUgenicists profit.

All's well that ends well.

 :evilgrin0002:  :smokin:  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 12, 2020, 09:46:03 AM

Seems like the UK has plenty of money. They are donating $248 million to WHO and charities.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-pledges-200-million-pounds-in-aid-to-help-stop-second-coronavirus-wave/ar-BB12uzUl?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 12, 2020, 10:44:21 AM
BillyB doesn't trust China's numbers ...

Who trusts Belarus' reports ?


https://eng.belta.by/society/view/cardiovascular-disease-named-leading-cause-of-death-in-belarus-in-january-march-129689-2020/ (https://eng.belta.by/society/view/cardiovascular-disease-named-leading-cause-of-death-in-belarus-in-january-march-129689-2020/)

10 APRIL 2020, 13:53
Cardiovascular disease named leading cause of death in Belarus in January-March


It MAY even be true .... for now ...

Lukashoudgo and his denial .. 'reports' that Doctors cannot say someone died of 'Kornoa' .. they 'die' of .... heart failure ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 12, 2020, 11:26:15 AM


Those currently 'knocking' WHO will wish the UK ( and USA) listened to their mantra .. TEST, TEST, TEST ..


Germany managed it ....

Coronavirus: UK could be 'worst affected' country in Europe


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859)


We test all we can. We have increased our testing to 150,000 per day up from 30,000 a day a month ago. We know it is still not enough and we are working on it. WE do not need to pay someone hundred of millions of dollars to tell us the obvious. When we needed WHO all we got was bad information.

At this point we get it. This virus is never going away. All we can do is to hope one day to control it with a vaccine. This virus mutates very fast and we will likely need a new vaccine every year maybe for the next thousand years or until we find something better than a vaccine. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 12, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
A recent report says wearing a mask inside is advisable. It help prevents weight gain!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 12, 2020, 12:08:58 PM
Vlad at work!! Hope one day I will be in the same kind of office once my island is up and running.. ;D

(https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92818615_2993135680772958_412928291960258560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQmyjBnPjLaaOt8XxNiO6mE4TQctwmKQjAEoVJm1-Cg7RI9sSbO61oLJAfp9Z0CtYTA&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=950d5eccb19ae82c56329dd1f99c7e6b&oe=5EB75DD2)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 12, 2020, 12:30:20 PM
Anyhow the Chinese are desperate to have full access and use of the port in Pireas  to supply Europe.

The Wizzwaankster freely admitted that Greece is a Communist Freaking Red Chinese Belt and Roads Colony... The Wizzbot waanks on about CIA hoarding PPE as his Chinese superiors have been proven to have criminally hoarded worldwide... Soon China will flood Millions of replacement workers into Greece like they did Italy that worked quite well for their Covid biowar and then the entire EU and UK... Look at the bright side the Communist Freaking Red Chinese are highly skilled in recycling Islamist minorities into Mass organ donors for aging EUians at a huge EUgenicists profit.

All's well that ends well.

 :evilgrin0002:  :smokin:  :ROFL:

Cufflinks if you don't stop making personal insults and and attacks and start talking civilised then I suggest you go elsewhere to continue your Onanist Hobby to satisfy yourself, every time you open your mouth.

I only talk to intelligent people and you are not one of them!

 :sick0012: tiphat  :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 12, 2020, 01:00:08 PM
Do I understand this correctly? The EU is trying to push countries to keep on accepting migrants right in the middle of the Corona crisis? Does anyone besides me think that that's ridiculous? Countries are having enough problems controlling the virus among their own population without having more unknown risk coming in!  :rolleye0009:

 

https://neonnettle.com/news/10900-austria-rejects-eu-migrant-quota-blocks-all-asylum-requests-it-remains-a-no-

The Austrian government says it is maintaining its strict policy on migration and not accepting any more asylum seekers, despite orders from the EU.The announcement follows pressure from some 150 NGOs, who are demanding the country opens up its border to Middle Eastern illegal migrants stuck in Greece during the COVID-19 pandemic.

It’s not ridiculous, it’s insane and unfair on everyone. Still, the EU progressives need to push ahead with their bizarre, unaccountable agenda.

Since COVID-19 hit the streets in Europe, we’ve seen all the member states go back to making their own rules, that suit their own country. Sovereignty has returned and the EU up until now has done little to help the bloc. In fact they’ve been shipping money and supplies to anyone but it’s tax payers.

We see the real strength of a group during crisis and Austria rejecting the next horde of Muslim migrants only undermines the EU again. Wait for the black mail threats to sneak in under the MSM radar.

The beginning of the end.....

 I agree! Because of the virus, which countries are allowing international travel right now for tourism or business, etc? None that I know of. Yet countries are expected to take on refugees? Now is not the time or place to even think about it. And yes, I've seen how they turned their back when Italy and Spain were pleading for help. When shit hit the fan it was everyone fend for themselves. France and Germany themselves were stopping shipments of medical supplies out of the country, and now they have the nerve to try and force other countries to take these high risk people? And accept the expense that comes with taking them in when countries economies are being decimated? Utter stupidity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 12, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
Do I understand this correctly?

Sort of ..

The NGOs are asking for EU nations to respect the Directive on handling refugee crisis's

The CoJ ruled on member states behaviour in 2015/6

Turkey DELIBERATELY helped refugees head west to Greece' borders


The UK was not a signatory to the agreement to share the load..

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/europe/european-court-refugees-hungary-poland-czech-republic.html

This virus came along to make matters worse

 Yes yes, I know the history behind it, I was questioning the logic of forcing countries to go on with taking them in the middle of a pandemic when you are trying to control the spread of such a dangerous virus. Are you saying that placing these people is more important than fighting to control the death rate of your own citizens? Sorry but there is much bigger things to worry about at the moment, now is not the time or place for it   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 12, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
Holy shizzle. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52192604

Not good. 50/50 for him from here on according to recent UK stats. Fingers crossed he pulls through.

I understand B. Johnson has been discharged from hospital and is now at Chequers.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/uk/boris-johnson-coronavirus-discharged-from-hospital-intl-gbr/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 02:02:17 PM
Do I understand this correctly? The EU is trying to push countries to keep on accepting migrants right in the middle of the Corona crisis? Does anyone besides me think that that's ridiculous? Countries are having enough problems controlling the virus among their own population without having more unknown risk coming in!  :rolleye0009:

 

https://neonnettle.com/news/10900-austria-rejects-eu-migrant-quota-blocks-all-asylum-requests-it-remains-a-no-

The Austrian government says it is maintaining its strict policy on migration and not accepting any more asylum seekers, despite orders from the EU.The announcement follows pressure from some 150 NGOs, who are demanding the country opens up its border to Middle Eastern illegal migrants stuck in Greece during the COVID-19 pandemic.

It’s not ridiculous, it’s insane and unfair on everyone. Still, the EU progressives need to push ahead with their bizarre, unaccountable agenda.

Since COVID-19 hit the streets in Europe, we’ve seen all the member states go back to making their own rules, that suit their own country. Sovereignty has returned and the EU up until now has done little to help the bloc. In fact they’ve been shipping money and supplies to anyone but it’s tax payers.

We see the real strength of a group during crisis and Austria rejecting the next horde of Muslim migrants only undermines the EU again. Wait for the black mail threats to sneak in under the MSM radar.

The beginning of the end.....

 I agree! Because of the virus, which countries are allowing international travel right now for tourism or business, etc? None that I know of. Yet countries are expected to take on refugees? Now is not the time or place to even think about it. And yes, I've seen how they turned their back when Italy and Spain were pleading for help. When shit hit the fan it was everyone fend for themselves. France and Germany themselves were stopping shipments of medical supplies out of the country, and now they have the nerve to try and force other countries to take these high risk people? And accept the expense that comes with taking them in when countries economies are being decimated? Utter stupidity.

Here here.  :BEER:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 02:21:23 PM
Do I understand this correctly?

Sort of ..

The NGOs are asking for EU nations to respect the Directive on handling refugee crisis's

The CoJ ruled on member states behaviour in 2015/6

Turkey DELIBERATELY helped refugees head west to Greece' borders


The UK was not a signatory to the agreement to share the load..

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/europe/european-court-refugees-hungary-poland-czech-republic.html

This virus came along to make matters worse

 Yes yes, I know the history behind it, I was questioning the logic of forcing countries to go on with taking them in the middle of a pandemic when you are trying to control the spread of such a dangerous virus. Are you saying that placing these people is more important than fighting to control the death rate of your own citizens? Sorry but there is much bigger things to worry about at the moment, now is not the time or place for it   

The Moby’s of the world can’t accept logical decisions, especially ones like halting travel, flights or Muslim migrant imports from 3rd world shit holes who aren’t even at war. They prefer to call anyone opposing it racist and continue to stick their heads in the sand.

As we’ve already seen, the hand wringing left would rather put their own people at risk so they can sleep at night, knowing their liberal ideals are played out, at great cost to the innocent.

I’ve also learned that these sorts can’t be reasoned with, it’s like they’ve got faulty wiring and will live out their remaining days without recall.  :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 12, 2020, 02:22:20 PM
Lots of words from Rosco ...

Can you even remember what I asked for?

Gotcha. The trolls been trolled!!  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 12, 2020, 05:46:12 PM
With the virus there are in fact two races going on. The foremost is some sort of vaccine. The second has all sorts of implications, a test for a person if they have antibodies to the virus COVID 19.

One can imagine numerous issues, standards and mutations come immediately to mind. Who will control distribution and maintenance of the 'certificates'.

Below is an article that discusses some of the issues. Anyways something to ponder and discuss.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/health/coronavirus-antibody-test.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 13, 2020, 02:59:00 AM
After it is all over Russia plans to track all tourists that will include anyone entering on a doggy business visa with a doggy sponsor giving a doggy registration and place of stay whilst really staying some where completely different..to ensure the virus is kept at bay for some time..

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4317311
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 13, 2020, 03:05:08 AM
Moscow are introducing a new app today which you will need to get a code from before you can leave your home or travel.. now here is the problem!!

All these women do not have smart phones? They still use the old analogue versions that look like a brick or so 99% of western men think  :laugh:.. a good time to send your FSU women a phone?

And of course this is the new scam line now for the young scammers "I have no food , Im in lock down with no smart phone" I see a surge in smart phones coming into Russia from the US very soon.. ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 13, 2020, 03:15:12 AM
After it is all over Russia plans to track all tourists that will include anyone entering on a doggy business visa with a doggy sponsor giving a doggy registration and place of stay whilst really staying some where completely different..to ensure the virus is kept at bay for some time..

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4317311

These more about these 'doggy visas, please )))))
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 13, 2020, 03:29:20 AM
So many unanswered questions and I get the feeling that world governments are pretty much flying by the seat of their pants.

Until a vaccine is readily available for all and assuming COVID-19 doesn’t mutate into COVID-20, what do we do? I hear about restrictions being eased and people going back to work in some countries but there’s a fear that a second wave of infection strikes because in reality, nothing has changed. We just hid from it in our houses.

When we go back to work and start mixing with others, we’re exactly where we were before the lockdown. Then I read about heard immunity etc which would be great but in some parts of the globe, people are catching the virus for the second time.

Most of us will be ok if exposed to the virus but until then do we just avoid our parents, try to social distance, wash our hands until they fall off and hope for the best?

As it stands, there doesn’t seem like much light at the end of the tunnel and covid-19 doesn’t appear to be seasonal. I’ll be interested to see what the next step in the U.K. is tonight, after our initial 3 week lock down.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 13, 2020, 03:43:20 AM
So many unanswered questions and I get the feeling that world governments are pretty much flying by the seat of their pants.

Until a vaccine is readily available for all and assuming COVID-19 doesn’t mutate into COVID-20, what do we do? I hear about restrictions being eased and people going back to work in some countries but there’s a fear that a second wave of infection strikes because in reality, nothing has changed. We just hid from it in our houses.

When we go back to work and start mixing with others, we’re exactly where we were before the lockdown. Then I read about heard immunity etc which would be great but in some parts of the globe, people are catching the virus for the second time.

Most of us will be ok if exposed to the virus but until then do we just avoid our parents, try to social distance, wash our hands until they fall off and hope for the best?

As it stands, there doesn’t seem like much light at the end of the tunnel and covid-19 doesn’t appear to be seasonal. I’ll be interested to see what the next step in the U.K. is tonight, after our initial 3 week lock down.

I think it is pretty simple what is going to happen... NOTHING until there is a vaccine simple as that!

Until then and probably until the end of the year even early next year it will just be .. lockdown... ease.........lockdown .......ease ..... social distancing... lockdown.. ease.... social distancing....lockdown....ease...social distancing.... lockdown..... ease... social distancing...

Best to let the scientists worry about making a vaccine and all to start planning for the economic meltdown which is following on just behind like a locust storm..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 13, 2020, 03:44:54 AM
Then I read about heard immunity etc which would be great but in some parts of the globe, people are catching the virus for the second time.

Most of us will be ok if exposed to the virus but until then do we just avoid our parents, try to social distance, wash our hands until they fall off and hope for the best?

As it stands, there doesn’t seem like much light at the end of the tunnel and covid-19 doesn’t appear to be seasonal. I’ll be interested to see what the next step in the U.K. is tonight, after our initial 3 week lock down.
Belgium apparently has a big monitor/track program in place to track covid19. From it they deduced that about 14% of its population in the controlled area is now immune to covid. Half of those numbers had symptoms and the other half was never ill but bloodtesting shows they have antibodies anyway.

Netherlands is starting a similar program now in an area south of NL that was hit hard by the covid virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 13, 2020, 04:17:27 AM
I mentioned earlier that I feared for people in the US because of their preexisting conditions, especially type 2 diabetes, obesity and pre type 2 diabetes. We're talking well over 50% of the population.

Also, does anyone have a problem with the way the data is being skewed?

IOW, a person can have heart disease, or any other underlying condition, and realistically have less than 1 year to live. Then said patient dies after contracting corona, they count him/her as one of those who died from corona.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 13, 2020, 04:23:44 AM
..then there's nations who skew Corona virus fatalities and list 'Cardio-vascular issues' as increasing...


We should all drink more vodka, take baths and exercise more.....


Thank you President LukaShouldGo.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 13, 2020, 07:26:21 AM
Danchik is about right here!

The most important thing right now is to record the incidence of COVID-19. later data can be reallocated as has happened before.

It certainly seems that in many cases, COVID-19 is bringing forward a death that would've happened in a year or two.

As members of the general public, it is worthwhile to understand that the most accurate form of diagnosis of the presence of COVID-19 remains assessment of the symptoms, preferably in conjunction with a CT scan of the lungs. Testing is then a confirmation.

Antibody tests are still proving to be too unreliable for use in population control - as has been discovered in several countries.

The issue with reinfections/relapses seems to be more about testing failures than about a lack of immunity. That might prove to be untrue in the future but right now, that seems to be the best hypothesis and is supported by empirical evidence from the failure rate of testing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 13, 2020, 07:32:26 AM
I had wonder this myself. How many of these people did not have a life before the got Covid-19 because of over whelming health conditions. I know here in USA 15 per cent of the deaths are in nursing homes. The main cause is workers bring it into the home. In Florida they are trying to get immunity from law suites. If they do not they are claiming that there will not be any nursing homes. It should also be noted that Nursing home deaths of covid-19  are being under counted here in USA as well as most of Europe. If a person dies that was in really bad shape they often do not want to waste test kit that is in short supply.

It appears that we will have to let the disease exist on a control manner while we return to work. Those people who practice good hygiene and social distanting will experience less infections than those who do not.  I do not see sport events this year and maybe much of next year. I do not know how we are going to do school this coming fall but I m sure some big changes are coming as how we educate children. Putting thirty of them in a room with a teacher is not going to work.

An apt that tracks everyone movement will be a big problem in the USA. Maybe they can come up with some benefit to having it and maybe half of the population or a little more will get it. I can not see them forcing everyone to get it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 13, 2020, 08:36:48 AM
Tarnation... UK giving the Italians a run... And BoJo without TV makeup in recent interviews far from the picture of health... He looks worse than Christ risen from death...

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/04/12/britains-coronavirus-death-toll-surpasses-10000/

LONDON (AP) – British Prime Minister Boris Johnson expressed his gratitude to the staff of the National Health Service for saving his life when his treatment for the coronavirus could have “gone either way” as the UK on Sunday became the fourth European country to surpass 10,000 virus-related deaths.

And...

Hancock on Sunday announced a new NHS contact tracing app that will anonymously alert users if someone they were in significant contact with in the previous few days tests positive for the virus.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 13, 2020, 08:42:06 AM
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said in a briefing Sunday that the number of new severe cases was on the decline, with about 70 people per day needing ventilators, down from 200 to 300 a week ago.

"We are hoping to see a rather sharp decrease and decline in the cases in New York," he told MSNBC's Al Sharpton.

Some other state have not yet peaked. In New York there is no shortage of ventilators. In spite of receiving millions of units of safety gear, Mayor says they are still short.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-coronavirus-death-toll-highest-in-the-world/ar-BB12yd4R?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 13, 2020, 09:14:33 AM
If you guys know young people who do not care, you may want to share this info. If you are a person that thinks getting the virus and be done with it is the smart thing to do, think twice. In a study, those who survived mild and severe disease alike, the researchers found that many of the biological measures had “failed to return to normal.”  It's possible this virus can cause lasting damage to various organs.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-infection-can-do-lasting-damage-to-the-heart-liver

I searched for info from the original SARS and physical and mental damage can last for years.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1203389/ten-years-mental-and-physical-scars-sars

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/05/11/sars-survivors-may-face-lasting-lung-injury/0e6ba9ed-599f-4490-9d8a-901db1f369e8/

A 2-year study of a selected population of SARS survivors, showed significant impairment of DL(CO), exercise capacity and health status persisted, with a more marked adverse impact among HCW.  The SARS related medical problems will become an additional burden on the medical community for a long time. Going for a herd immunity letting this new virus run its course is not smart.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20337995

ER nurse in New Orleans used to see 1 person die per month. Now he sees 9 people die per month. COVID-19 will easily become the #1 killer of a population in areas where there is an epidemic. A few areas of America have experienced outbreaks. Those few areas have caused 2000 Americans to die each day. At that pace 730,000 Americans would die in a year and with a outbreaks in just a few areas at any given time would make COVID-19 #1 killer in all America. To keep deaths down, all nations will have to sacrifice jobs, education, and economies.

https://news.yahoo.com/er-nurse-orleans-growing-coronavirus-093000174.html


Petition going around to remove WHO's director Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. I signed it. China wanted the guy in charge but America wanted somebody else. China got their way and it's paid off since WHO covered for China and praised their efforts throughout the crisis. WHO has failed to do the job they were asked to do. They failed the world. China, along with WHO will have cost the world many lives and ruined economies for many years to come. A couple of days ago Trump said he's going to have a meeting this week to discuss ending $500 million a year we pay to WHO for their poor performance. The leaders of WHO probably didn't sleep very well this weekend.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/petition-calling-for-who-boss-tedros-to-resign-nears-1m-signatures/ar-BB12v8G2?ocid=ientp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 13, 2020, 09:30:41 AM

IOW, a person can have heart disease, or any other underlying condition, and realistically have less than 1 year to live. Then said patient dies after contracting corona, they count him/her as one of those who died from corona.
Or a decade, or 20+ years. Noone knows except that without Corona they would've lived longer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 13, 2020, 09:57:32 AM
Also, does anyone have a problem with the way the data is being skewed?

I was talking to a pal of mine the other day who is in the police, he told me they are attending 2-3 suicides a day that are being recorded as the virus.

When I drilled down into this, it seemed to be a mix of mentally ill people who couldn't handle being isolated and/or suffered depression, and a few who felt they couldn't handle it financially.

I challenged him that these were not virus deaths and should be recorded as whatever they record suicide due to mental illness as. He disagreed saying they wouldn't have topped themselves if the virus had not existed. His argument was specious at best. While the existence of the virus might have been a factor in their decision making, those people didn't die from the virus and those deaths shouldnt be attributed to it.

If this is country wide, that could be hundreds a day recorded wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 13, 2020, 10:07:15 AM
I was talking to a pal of mine the other day who is in the police, he told me they are attending 2-3 suicides a day that are being recorded as the virus.


His police department can record whatever they want but it doesn't mean it goes into the national data base for coronavirus deaths. Only those bodies that have been tested positive should be recorded and police aren't qualified to give out tests or inspect a blood sample in a lab. There are many COVID-19 deaths of people in their homes and dead people rarely get a test since test kits are in very short supply. Only Iceland and Faeroe Islands have tested more than 10% of their population. Everybody else doesn't come close. Deaths are getting under reported because some nations want to be honest but don't have the means to test everybody and some nations purposely want to deceive their people into believing the government is protecting them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 13, 2020, 12:47:03 PM
On a lighter note if you're feeling a little bored?

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/332004-online-kinky-sex-party-for-self-isolation?fbclid=IwAR2p2ajB7YX3ecUdQ5kErbtEmNRdg09M9Yw-bgY2CdZgfGV9vsFkcmp6ego
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on April 13, 2020, 01:03:50 PM
On a lighter note if you're feeling a little bored?

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/332004-online-kinky-sex-party-for-self-isolation?fbclid=IwAR2p2ajB7YX3ecUdQ5kErbtEmNRdg09M9Yw-bgY2CdZgfGV9vsFkcmp6ego

Son of a b!tch, I had a pair of those electronic glasses, but I gave them away. I'd have hung onto them had I known that they could be used as sex glasses!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 14, 2020, 01:30:10 AM
I couldn’t help thinking about all the people separated from loved ones due to the lockdown, and how much more they will have to "peep through the keyhole" for an imitation of free sex and love. I hope not for long.
 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 14, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
This may become useful...Jerome Corsi PhD of corsination.com launched a new TeleMD page with forms for a reasonable $60 USD tele consult and if determined by a Covid19 aware MD that you might benefit by Hydroxycloroquine, zinc and azithromycin antibiotic that President Trump has mentioned many times and for a reasonable price will ship the meds to you if needed...

I had been searching for actual reccs for dosing and like most meds based upon your height, weight and age so no one size fits all so these links are authorative and designed NOT to be a rip off...

https://corsination.com/covid-19/


Deep dive interview with NYC MD that successfully treated over 1000 patients that were Covid19 positive...


Cut paste and forward this info to anyone you care about with all the MSM fear mongering this might save your life if infected with Covid19...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 14, 2020, 04:48:46 PM
This may become useful...Jerome Corsi PhD of corsination.com launched a new TeleMD page with forms for a reasonable $60 USD tele consult and if determined by a Covid19 aware MD that you might benefit by Hydroxycloroquine, zinc and azithromycin antibiotic that President Trump has mentioned many times and for a reasonable price will ship the meds to you if needed...

I had been searching for actual reccs for dosing and like most meds based upon your height, weight and age so no one size fits all so these links are authorative and designed NOT to be a rip off...

https://corsination.com/covid-19/


Deep dive interview with NYC MD that successfully treated over 1000 patients that were Covid19 positive...


Cut paste and forward this info to anyone you care about with all the MSM fear mongering this might save your life if infected with Covid19...

Looks like unproven quackery to me at $60 a pop to exploit the desperate or afflicted. I don’t think that’s legal here; it probably is in the states.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 06:01:58 PM
It's official, Trump suspends funding to WHO for their poor performance.

He said they wasted valuable time and dismissed reports that countered what the Chinese was saying about the virus and it's behavior. The gave bad advice advising nations not to put a travel ban on China. Trump said there was credible information in December that human to human transmission was happening but WHO instead reported human to human transmission wasn't happening. Trump said we received false information on mortality rate. Trump said WHO has been silent on the disappearances of researchers and doctors. Trump said it's deeply concerning there are new restrictions on sharing the research into the origins of the virus. Trump also criticized China's lack of transparency and criticized WHO for praising China's transparency although they had to take everything China told them at face value. Trump said telling the truth early on would've been easy for China but now we're seeing unnecessary deaths and devastation to economies.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-calls-for-halt-to-us-funding-for-world-health-organization-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/ar-BB12D4Vp?ocid=spartanntp

America is going to send Russia medical supplies to help with their outbreak.

https://www.oann.com/u-s-to-send-russia-equipment-to-combat-covid-19/


Some people are still underestimating this virus.

Right now worldwide we have 1,991,810 people infected by the coronavirus. Let's say half the people infected hasn't be counted so we actually have 4 million people on earth infected right now. Many nations under report deaths and most of those people currently infected haven't even finished their battle with the virus but let's assume everybody survives and  the true death toll worldwide is currently at 126,019 dead. 7.8 billion people divided by 4 million infected is 1950. One out of every 1950 people on earth has been infected. If everybody got infected we multiple 126,019 dead by 1950 to get a worldwide death toll of 246 million people. That would definitely overwhelm hospitals and a reason we need to limit this virus's damage over many years. Although 246 million may be dead, there will be many more alive that need expensive long term medical care which can crush economies. Another reason we need to desperately slow the spread. My calculations is based on each person on earth fighting this virus once in their lifetime. I hope we don't have to fight this virus numerous times throughout our lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 06:21:28 PM
you might benefit by Hydroxycloroquine,


Hydroxychloroquine is used by people who have Lupus, a disease where the immune system attacks flesh. The drug prevents that. One problem with those who have a severe case of COVID-19 is their immune system goes into overdrive and starts killing living tissue. Your immune system is not only fighting the virus but killing your organs at the same time so Hydroxychloroquine may be needed in that scenario. If a person with a mild case of COVID-19 has an immune system that is successfully beating the virus, taking Hydroxychloroquine may weaken their immune system and let the virus win.. The drug has not been tested under controlled situations in a laboratory. It is not know if it's even effective and certainly it is not known what a safe dosage is to give a patient should it turn out to be effective.

Some of those fly by night doctors that can't make it in the real world will prescribe you the drugs you need if you're willing to pay. Ask Michael Jackson and Prince how it worked out for them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on April 14, 2020, 08:50:16 PM
This may become useful...Jerome Corsi PhD of corsination.com launched a new TeleMD page with forms for a reasonable $60 USD tele consult and if determined by a Covid19 aware MD that you might benefit by Hydroxycloroquine, zinc and azithromycin antibiotic that President Trump has mentioned many times and for a reasonable price will ship the meds to you if needed...

I had been searching for actual reccs for dosing and like most meds based upon your height, weight and age so no one size fits all so these links are authorative and designed NOT to be a rip off...

https://corsination.com/covid-19/


Deep dive interview with NYC MD that successfully treated over 1000 patients that were Covid19 positive...


Cut paste and forward this info to anyone you care about with all the MSM fear mongering this might save your life if infected with Covid19...

Looks like unproven quackery to me at $60 a pop to exploit the desperate or afflicted. I don’t think that’s legal here; it probably is in the states.

If you or people you care about contract Covid19 this quackery already saved 1000+ Covid19 patients in NYC by a NY board certified MD who happens to be Russian.  Thank God for Russian quackery.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 14, 2020, 10:52:39 PM

New law. Any study of the origin of the virus must get approval by the Chinese government before being published.

http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/china-coronavirus-research-restrictions-intl-hnk/index.html

Intelligence officials are now looking into the possibility the virus escaped from a lab. CIA official said it should be easy to get information from people who are upset with their government. If anybody knows something, China may make them disappear knowing the CIA is poking around for answers in their country. Some researchers and doctors have already disappeared.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/intelligence-officials-weigh-possibility-coronavirus-escaped-from-a-chinese-lab-194958353.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 14, 2020, 10:55:16 PM
Vlad at work!! Hope one day I will be in the same kind of office once my island is up and running.. ;D

(https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92818615_2993135680772958_412928291960258560_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQmyjBnPjLaaOt8XxNiO6mE4TQctwmKQjAEoVJm1-Cg7RI9sSbO61oLJAfp9Z0CtYTA&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=950d5eccb19ae82c56329dd1f99c7e6b&oe=5EB75DD2)

Quote
But it has become clear in recent days that Russia is unlikely to escape a severe hit by the pandemic, presenting an existential test to the country’s teetering health system and a new challenge to the aura of rising confidence and competence projected by Putin’s Kremlin.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putins-bleak-covid-19-admission-122708635.html

The numbers keep rising.   :scared0005: :biggrin: :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 14, 2020, 11:00:36 PM
Quote
The coronavirus is not a parasite, but experts suggest that the drug essentially treats it like one and blocks the viral RNA from invading healthy cells. Unable to enter the cell, the RNA is slowed from replicating, giving the patient's immune system more time to fight it off.

Experts plea that consumers do not take ivermectin at home, as dangerous consequences of the drug include widespread body swelling, liver injury, and serious neurological harm.


https://www.yahoo.com/gma/head-lice-drug-emerges-potential-coronavirus-treatment-studies-080301583--abc-news-topstories.html

Head lice drug to treat coronavirus?  :-\ ??? :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 14, 2020, 11:11:46 PM
you might benefit by Hydroxycloroquine,

Mikey,

Honestly, I have to wonder at your ability to believe this SHYTE about HCQ..there's plenty of evidence to show inconclusive or even disastrous results.. HOW can you KNOW unless you have twins infected at the same time and only one gets your 'cure' ..?

[/quote]


Hydroxychloroquine is used by people who have Lupus, a disease where the immune system attacks flesh. The drug prevents that.


OMG..

BillyB,

Lupus takes many forms and your description of Ebola-like symptoms in overly dramatic in the vast amount of sufferers.

You are referring to ONE form ..Cutaneous lupus erythematosus

My eldest daughter suffers from a form of Lupus and I'm getting REALLY pissed off with  your quoting medical bollox and ARSEHOLES buying up the stocks of HQC - causing shortages for those for whom the efficacy IS known.

Rant mode off
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 14, 2020, 11:44:58 PM

Quote
But it has become clear in recent days that Russia is unlikely to escape a severe hit by the pandemic, presenting an existential test to the country’s teetering health system and a new challenge to the aura of rising confidence and competence projected by Putin’s Kremlin.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putins-bleak-covid-19-admission-122708635.html

The numbers keep rising.   :scared0005: :biggrin: :snivel:

My girl in Ukraine send me an email which she said she saw a video of a hospital extremely over crowded in Russia. The new infecting in China are near the Russian border and most are coming from Russia.

The latest news I am reading is saying China is getting ready for a very hard economic landing from this virus. When I go to Walmart the only thing I see people buying is food and house goods like paper towels.  Home depo is very busy as people are doing a lot of repair projects o there house.

Trump is getting ready to let twenty states open up for business on the first of May or maybe a little sooner. These state have had a very low infection rate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 15, 2020, 06:09:21 AM
It is about time our American members who rely mostly on American Media to start looking outside of their garden and listen what other sources posting and telling us.

Your relentless posting of American propaganda is becoming boring! open your eyes and read something out of your cage!

Here is an article from the British Guardian who presents a different story ......

Trump turns against WHO to mask
his own stark failings on Covid-19 crisis


[attachimg=1]

Dishonest decision to pull funding from World Health Organization will endanger public health

Donald Trump’s declared suspension of funding of the World Health Organization in the midst of a pandemic is confirmation – if any were needed – that he is in search of scapegoats for his administration’s much delayed and chaotic response to the crisis.

The US is the WHO’s biggest donor, with funding over $400m a year in both assessed contributions (membership fees) and donations – though it is actually $200m in arrears.

Theoretically the White House cannot block funding of international institutions mandated by Congress. But the administration has found ways around such constitutional hurdles on other issues – by simply failing to disburse funds or apply sanctions, for example.

The funding could be formally rescinded, but that would require Senate approval, or “reprogrammed” by being diverted to another purpose that the White House could argue is consistent with the will of Congress.

Read more: Donald Trump’s declared suspension of funding of the World Health (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/15/trump-turns-against-who-to-mask-his-own-stark-failings-on-covid-19-crisis)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 15, 2020, 06:35:46 AM
Wiz, not often I agree with you..

I said this already....

Pls note the UK and Bill and Mrs Gates give more than the US..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2020, 06:45:30 AM
The places that have confirmed cases but low numbers are places that have not yet had the epidemic breakout. The breakouts will come, there's no magic here!

In truth, there is one way to be relatively sure that the infection cycle has been broken, but no government either federal or state will go along with it.

We know that the infectious period for most people can last for up to about 2 weeks. We also know that infection comes, largely, but not wholly. by transmission from other infectees. So, communities need to isolate from each other - city from city, village from village. When there are no more infections within the defined community area the countdown to breaking the infection cycle begins. In order to be fairly confident that the infection has been stamped out we need to wait through two infection cycles to be sure that the virus has died out and that any possible infections have passed by. This means any infected people without symptoms will have become non-infectious and none of the people they might have passed the virus on to are themselves infectious.

That's a long wait. Nobody is going to go with that, so the infection cycle will not be broken and the places that have not been burying bodies in parks will do so in the near(ish) future.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 15, 2020, 06:45:52 AM
look on the bright side of things..many of you will have a whole new set of words in your vocabulary that you never eve dreamed of a year back!

Self isolation

lockdown

Flattening the curve

One day in the future your going to be able to tell your kids or grandchildren you remember the days trying to "Flatten the curve"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 15, 2020, 06:47:25 AM
I think Russia will be the last stand against the virus sounds like it is on the way at full speed now...

We got to brace for impact!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2020, 06:54:06 AM
I think Russia will be the last stand against the virus sounds like it is on the way at full speed now...

We got to brace for impact!!
Yes, they have a huge hospitalisation rate and the testing is being rolled at a very rapid pace. The strategy is clear - track and isolate.

I was r4eading that they are seeing a very large number of asymptomatic infectees. Looks like getting on for 50% in some areas. Those are all infection sources that are being removed from the pool - something that nobody apart from South Korea and Singapore have done, but not at this scale.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 15, 2020, 07:15:01 AM
I think Russia will be the last stand against the virus sounds like it is on the way at full speed now...

We got to brace for impact!!
Yes, they have a huge hospitalisation rate and the testing is being rolled at a very rapid pace. The strategy is clear - track and isolate.

I was r4eading that they are seeing a very large number of asymptomatic infectees. Looks like getting on for 50% in some areas. Those are all infection sources that are being removed from the pool - something that nobody apart from South Korea and Singapore have done, but not at this scale.


Yea we are doing the supermarket tomorrow as soon as they open then that's it going to just stay in for the next 4/5 weeks stay clear and try not to catch the bloody thing, it has not gone up daily in crazy amounts in St Petersburg YET will see in the next week.... just gets a bit boring looking at the wall all day..we ordered a running machine should be here Monday so something to do.. will know how a hamster feels ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 08:02:34 AM
Dishonest decision to pull funding from World Health Organization will endanger public health


Our public health is suffering because of WHO's bad decision. Paying them is a bad investment. Why don't you demand a better performance from them? Bashing Trump more fun? He didn't start this. Ask UK and Greece to give more to WHO to make up the void America is leaving.

look on the bright side of things..many of you will have a whole new set of words in your vocabulary that you never eve dreamed of a year back!

Self isolation

lockdown

Flattening the curve

One day in the future your going to be able to tell your kids or grandchildren you remember the days trying to "Flatten the curve"  :laugh:

There are words and terms that will disappear from our vocabulary. Hug, Kiss, shaking hands, live concert, live sporting event.

In other news Senator Tom Cotton says we know the virus didn't originate from the Wuhan wet market. Also America sounded the alarm on Wuhan lab studying coronaviruses years ago that there could be another SARS outbreak. It wasn't secure enough and personnel lacked proper training.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-sounded-alarm-wuhan-lab-160443838.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 08:22:53 AM
Hydroxychloroquine is used by people who have Lupus, a disease where the immune system attacks flesh. The drug prevents that. One problem with those who have a severe case of COVID-19 is their immune system goes into overdrive and starts killing living tissue. Your immune system is not only fighting the virus but killing your organs at the same time so Hydroxychloroquine may be needed in that scenario. If a person with a mild case of COVID-19 has an immune system that is successfully beating the virus, taking Hydroxychloroquine may weaken their immune system and let the virus win.. The drug has not been tested under controlled situations in a laboratory. It is not know if it's even effective and certainly it is not known what a safe dosage is to give a patient should it turn out to be effective.



Early study came in saying Hydroxychloroquine doesn't clear the virus. A lot more studies are still ongoing though.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hyped-malaria-pill-doesnt-help-clear-coronavirus-in-study/ar-BB12EEbv?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 15, 2020, 08:30:05 AM



Early study came in saying Hydroxychloroquine doesn't clear the virus. A lot more studies are still ongoing though.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hyped-malaria-pill-doesnt-help-clear-coronavirus-in-study/ar-BB12EEbv?ocid=spartanntp

Sighs,

It's not just Moby who's been telling you to stop posting tosh about HCQ... now you try to suggest it's 'news' that it's not the panacea you've quoted ... even when preliminary studies from France  pooh-poohed  suggested efficacy.   I quoted you THAT info from the British Medical Journal and Lancet  ..

Why are you posting - proving you are either inattentive or don't understand what you're copying or pasting ...?


It's IDIOTS like you that wiped out the availability of HCQ
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 15, 2020, 08:54:35 AM
Some wonderful news ... A lady ..106 years young ..came through this ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52296196

A 106-year-old great-grandmother, thought to be Britain's oldest patient to recover from coronavirus, has been discharged from hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 15, 2020, 12:15:31 PM
Antibody testing not working out well. It is a big problem. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/prominent-scientists-have-bad-news-for-the-white-house-about-coronavirus-antibody-tests/ar-BB12DeIz?li=BBnbfcL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2020, 12:27:42 PM
yeah, antibody testing is nowhere near reliable enough at the moment. Lots of claims have been made but as the UK have found, the claims are not matched by performance. The government advisors and politicians have said the same thing - a test that is not reliable is worse than no test at all.

That's true at all stages but the antibody test is mission critical to have a high degree of accuracy, first time.

Incidentally, from what I have read, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the cases of 'reinfection' have more to do with poor testing than they do with lack of immunity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 15, 2020, 01:51:49 PM
Russia has promised payment holidays with house loans and other help to people who lost their jobs.. wife has several friends with house loans in Moscow so far they are not giving anything and banks are saying after two months missed payments it will be sent to the courts for default if you do not keep payments up..

Will be interesting to see if every thing promised will really happen as we know lots of self employed people and friends with house loans..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 15, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
Dishonest decision to pull funding from World Health Organization will endanger public health
Our public health is suffering because of WHO's bad decision. Paying them is a bad investment. Why don't you demand a better performance from them? Bashing Trump more fun? He didn't start this. Ask UK and Greece to give more to WHO to make up the void America is leaving.

BillyB

In a previous post, I expressed clearly my detest to traitors of their Birth Country but it is pretty obvious that you are completely brain dead and programmised as Andrew said. No matter what evidence one will post you will blindly refuse to accept and you continue repeating the same lies to cover up for your Master.

YOUR MAFIA PRESIDENT, LIED AND LIED and left the American people unprotected.
NOw you pay the price. He completely wiped out the Obamacare and people dying like chicken........

The Guardian article I posted, has an extra part..... obviously you read NOTHING.
If you can't read or refuse to read then you are an idiot and a zombie!


Profile - What is the World Health Organization (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/15/trump-turns-against-who-to-mask-his-own-stark-failings-on-covid-19-crisis)

The WHO first raised the alert over the Wuhan outbreak on 5 January, and beginning on 7 January it was briefing public health officials from the US and other national governments on the outbreak in regular teleconference calls. On 9 January the WHO distributed guidance to member states for their own risk assessment and planning.

Trump and his supporters have focused on a 14 January WHO tweet reporting the findings of preliminary Chinese studies suggesting "no clear evidence" of human-to-human transmission.

While the WHO was obliged to report on the latest findings of a member state at the source of the outbreak, its officials told their counterparts in technical briefings on 10 and 11 January, and briefed the press on 14 January, that human-to-human transmission was still a strong possibility given the experience of past coronavirus epidemics and urged suitable precautions.

Click the link above and READ. I have no intention making more dialogue with you.

Members states of the WHO pay according to the size of their population and the UK paid already extra  millions. You don't expect Greece 10 Million people to pay the same as the USA of 350 million people. If you do than you are twice more idiot than I thought before.

I detest Traitors. :sick0012: :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 15, 2020, 04:26:07 PM
Wiz, not often I agree with you..

I said this already....

Pls note the UK and Bill and Mrs Gates give more than the US..

Thanks.  Already I read about the extra UK contribution others haven't.... (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 15, 2020, 08:35:16 PM
The USA is now over counting cases for pollical reason to try to get Trump not reelected. They will now count any case that no matter how remotely might of been covid-19 involved in any way. That why our numbers have spiked. Before only deaths that were tested to show they had covid-19 only were counted. This is mainly democratic leaning states while Republican states still use the old method.  It is completely screwing up our data.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 15, 2020, 09:59:04 PM



Early study came in saying Hydroxychloroquine doesn't clear the virus. A lot more studies are still ongoing though.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hyped-malaria-pill-doesnt-help-clear-coronavirus-in-study/ar-BB12EEbv?ocid=spartanntp

Sighs,

It's not just Moby who's been telling you to stop posting tosh about HCQ... now you try to suggest it's 'news' that it's not the panacea you've quoted ... even when preliminary studies from France  pooh-poohed  suggested efficacy.   I quoted you THAT info from the British Medical Journal and Lancet  ..

Why are you posting - proving you are either inattentive or don't understand what you're copying or pasting ...?


It's IDIOTS like you that wiped out the availability of HCQ

You're definitely 100% idiot. I never promoted any treatment. I've been going around saying a vaccine or treatment has never been found for a coronavirus and probably never will and I've warned people against miracle drug claims. Get your head examined.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 12:04:05 AM

You're definitely 100% idiot. I never promoted any treatment. I've been going around saying a vaccine or treatment has never been found for a coronavirus and probably never will and I've warned people against miracle drug claims. Get your head examined.

I apologise BillyB. I was totally wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 16, 2020, 04:25:57 AM
Pls note the UK and Bill and Mrs Gates give more than the US..

I assume it's Moby's poor natural English causing confusion here again? He either writes to manipulates stats in his favour or he's just not very bright.

The United States is the largest single contributor to the organisation and provided one percent of its budget in 2018/19 by donating over $400million (£319million). Second to the US, the UK contributed the most funding to the WHO in the same period with £318million.

The biggest contributors to the WHO are:

United Kingdom - £318million
Germany - £191,402 million
Japan - £106million
Kuwait - £74million
Sweden - £60.6million
Norway - £51.3million

Other countries that contribute are:

Belgium
France
Canada
Luxembourg
The Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Saudi Arabia
Slovenia


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1269519/WHO-funding-by-country-which-countries-fund-the-WHO-USA

We can see from this alone that the UK does not in fact give more than the US, a claim made by Moby. Perhaps he meant that the UK and the Gates Foundation combined, give more than the US?

Another astonishing fact aside from the credibility, impartiality and politicised agenda of the WHO, who until recently had Robet Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador, is the contribution level from the UK.

This little country who will apparently perish without being governed by the EU elite, seems to stump up a disproportionate amount of cash for the size of its economy. In this day and age of Asian economic dominance and the continual lectures handed out by European leaders including Macron, Merkel etc, its no wonder they protest against the US disengagement of NATO and WHO.

Quite a few countries want to have their cake and eat it, they want all the say, the rebates and the power but don't always fancy paying for the privilege. I guess that's why Moby appears to attach himself to many of these organisations. I think there should be a re-shuffle in contributions or a put up and shut up stance adopted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 16, 2020, 04:29:43 AM
The USA is now over counting cases for pollical reason to try to get Trump not reelected. They will now count any case that no matter how remotely might of been covid-19 involved in any way. That why our numbers have spiked. Before only deaths that were tested to show they had covid-19 only were counted. This is mainly democratic leaning states while Republican states still use the old method.  It is completely screwing up our data.

Yea ok. So how's the, we'll be ok because we're America thing, working out for you now? Plenty still to go yet...worryingly enough.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 16, 2020, 05:04:01 AM
Not long ago most conversations started on dating sites with:

"Are you in the war zone"

"Im in the war zone"

Now it is:

"Are you in quarantine "

"Im in quarantine "

I guess one day it maybe something like after a nuke..

"have you lost your hair yet"

"My hair has all fallen out"

Certainly  interesting..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 05:40:54 AM

The USA is now over counting cases for pollical reason to try to get Trump not reelected. They will now count any case that no matter how remotely might of been covid-19 involved in any way. That why our numbers have spiked. Before only deaths that were tested to show they had covid-19 only were counted. This is mainly democratic leaning states while Republican states still use the old method.  It is completely screwing up our data.

WHAT ? ... That's TRIPE ... Over there ( and over here ) you've getting around to testing and reporting more accurately  - the UK's deaths will spike, too



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 05:51:05 AM
Pls note the UK and Bill and Mrs Gates give more than the US..

I assume it's Moby's poor natural English causing confusion here again? He either writes to manipulates stats in his favour or he's just not very bright.

I'm sorry you are so easily confused....  I MEANT to insert combined - [ The Gates' PLUS the UK is greater ] but I cannot edit my posts ;)

The UK is FIVE times smaller, but contribute more than half as much as the US ...


Then you 'quote' the D.Express rather than checking the ACTUAL donations - omitting the Gates' Foundation ..  Are you doing that deliberately ?


I guess that's why Moby appears to attach himself to many of these organisations. I think there should be a re-shuffle in contributions or a put up and shut up stance adopted.

1/ I pointed out that the organisation is apolitical ..... do you disagree ?  If so, state your case please ..

2/ The US is completely pulling funding based on WHO not being apolitical..




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 16, 2020, 06:46:49 AM
Not long ago most conversations started on dating sites with:

"Are you in the war zone"

"Im in the war zone"

Now it is:

"Are you in quarantine "

"Im in quarantine "

I guess one day it maybe something like after a nuke..

"have you lost your hair yet"

"My hair has all fallen out"

Certainly  interesting..
Have you seen a change in attitude of the women or the guys about dating? I belong to a dating site where old men date younger women. I am not paid member so I can only see who writes. In February I change my ad to say because of virous I am not going out any longer to restaurants or other places but all date would only consist of you coming over here.  My responses dropped to zero until the first of April. When April rent came due my in box got stuffed.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 16, 2020, 07:18:47 AM
The Moby swerve ladies and gentleman. Pensioner paddy strikes again with his tedious, argumentative posting.


I assume it's Moby's poor natural English causing confusion here, again? He either writes to manipulates stats in his favour or he's just not very bright.

I'm sorry you are so easily confused....  I MEANT to insert combined - [ The Gates' PLUS the UK is greater ] but I cannot edit my posts ;)


Ah so I'm not easily confused...it's actually you! My assumption in the initial post would have led you to understand that I was seeking clarification rather than being confused.

You're not proficient in your own language and you need to have access to modify, so we can comprehend what it is you're trying to tell us. Hint - behave as you should and perhaps you'll be given the basic privileges.

The UK is FIVE times smaller, but contribute more than half as much as the US ...


Not according to the linked article but yes, that was my point. It's little surprise you didn't engage the funding question, with your beloved, yet vocal EU member states or wealthy Asian economies. No need to argue with someone making the same point....unless you're mentally unwell that is.


Then you 'quote' the D.Express rather than checking the ACTUAL donations - omitting the Gates' Foundation ..  Are you doing that deliberately ?


I can quote whatever I like to back up my arguments and give a basis to my discussion. And no, I didn't omit the Gates Foundation deliberately. If you actually read the article, you would know that the Gates foundation wasn't even mentioned because it was WHO funding by country. If you were proficient in the language you were brought up with, you wouldn't have needed to argue and ask silly questions.

Do you see me arguing with you because you failed to acknowledge my point about General Mugabe being a goodwill ambassador for WHO??


1/ I pointed out that the organisation is apolitical ..... do you disagree ?  If so, state your case please ..

2/ The US is completely pulling funding based on WHO not being apolitical..






I think you should discuss this on the dedicated WHO thread with the other adults. We've all been quite clear about what we believe and given our opinions over there. We don't need you wrecking another thread.

Oh and please STOP hitting your return key several times after each post. There's no need and you're either doing it because you have anger issues/mental health problems or to spite the site owner. It's annoying for everyone and makes quoting more difficult.

Try to behave and act your age.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 16, 2020, 07:55:51 AM
Setting aside amounts of money here, what is clearly happening is an attempt to deflect blame for inaction by the U.S government onto an external entity.

Don't worry, we know the script. If the WHO was a country the US would be bombing it by now and blaming its citizens for the deaths incurred.

The WHO provided warnings and notifications to the USA which were then rubbished, in public, by the president, a certain Mr. Trump, the same bloke who is now trying to blame the WHO for his own failings.

The claims Trump and his team are making are factually incorrect and, if taken at face value, show Team Trump in a very poor light as being ineffectual, irresponsible and ill-informed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 09:04:14 AM
Must be something in the water, today .. I find myself actually agreeing with andrewfi  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 16, 2020, 09:07:31 AM
There seems to be the same inaction by Italy, Span, France and UK. Maybe bad info from WHO had something to do with thinking the Virus is not as bad as it is until it was too late? Russia was thinking that it could send supplies abroad only now to find it does not have enough for its own country.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 09:09:49 AM
You KNOW it's actually being taken serious in Russia ... May 9th's Victory Parade is cancelled
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 16, 2020, 09:22:49 AM
There seems to be the same inaction by Italy, Span, France and UK. Maybe bad info from WHO had something to do with thinking the Virus is not as bad as it is until it was too late? Russia was thinking that it could send supplies abroad only now to find it does not have enough for its own country.

The US is not alone in not acting fast enough, although you guys rather took the prize in that regard!

Much of the information about COvid-19 from the WHO is public. The public information gives the lie to the idea that you are now floating.

The choices about how countries manage their public health are down to the governments. Even an idiot could see, given what was coming out of the WHO, that the United States was sleepwalking into a crisis. When the leader of you poor lot is rubbishing the raising of the Covi8d-19 threat from worldwide epidemic to pandemic then it is rather tough to claim that your leaders were misinformed!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 16, 2020, 11:01:25 AM
I've just been watching the daily Downing Street briefing, which has predictably confirmed another 3 week lock down in the UK. Dominic Raab, Prof Whitty & Sir Patrick have all been speaking really well and responded sensibly to a bit of naughty baiting by the journalists.

One point made by Sky was discussed here a few days ago. They said that a disproportionate amount of BME staff and civilians have died of Covid-19, what are they going to do about it! The government responded by saying that current data is inconclusive and right now they cant respond to a problem that hasn't officially proven to be one. They need more data before they can act on anything. What they do know is the age, health and sex is a factor.

So we're back round the block with the, what will we do about the poor Blacks and Asians where in fact, one obvious data point proves that men are doubly at risk. I find it all a bit strange in a time where MSS loves to pigeon hole groups and scream victimisation.....so what about all us poor men?

Oh that's right.....its not on the MSM's agenda so everyone move on and let the poor blokes die without a fuss.  :whist11:

I guess my point here is that, why is nobody pointing out the obvious and asking, what are you doing to protect men? If they can ask that question about unproven groups, then why not us? I just think that the current emasculation of society needs men to shut up and get on with it, for the sake of equality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
I've just been watching the daily Downing Street briefing, which has predictably confirmed another 3 week lock down in the UK. Dominic Raab, Prof Whitty & Sir Patrick have all been speaking really well and responded sensibly to a bit of naughty baiting by the journalists.

'Naughty baiting' ? ... 

They asked pertinent points .. You were telling us only a few days ago I was 'wrong' about the 'testing of NHS staff' ...  I've been pointing out the issues with PPE, too .. not just in hospitals .. but in care homes ..   This govt promised us the risk was low and tried the herd immunity methodology - because the cost of lockdown seemed too high ..  People died necessarily  in the UK ( and US ) because of this mistake


Folks from Central Southern Asia are more prone to hyper tension and pulmonary issues .. it's a 'known genetic fact' - well it was known to me , recently ..

We knew blokes were at greater risk - having only seen China's figures ...  WHY ?   

Could be genetic ( associated with Y chromosomes ?) or because more men smoke ... ? 

May be ladies are the stronger sex after all ?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 16, 2020, 11:43:59 AM
I've just been watching the daily Downing Street briefing, which has predictably confirmed another 3 week lock down in the UK. Dominic Raab, Prof Whitty & Sir Patrick have all been speaking really well and responded sensibly to a bit of naughty baiting by the journalists.

One point made by Sky was discussed here a few days ago. They said that a disproportionate amount of BME staff and civilians have died of Covid-19, what are they going to do about it! The government responded by saying that current data is inconclusive and right now they cant respond to a problem that hasn't officially proven to be one. They need more data before they can act on anything. What they do know is the age, health and sex is a factor.

I watched it too.

There is nothing they can really say or do about it being more prevalent among non-whites. It could be genetic or it could be lifestyle, as many of them are in lower socio-economic groups. It is what it is.

Another three weeks wasn't unexpected. It may end up being three months. But if they laboured that as a possibility more, there would be panic, riots, looting and no bog roll again.

Doesn't bother me too much personally because we are pretty much unaffected. In fact, online sales have risen. I'm quite enjoying the cleaner air and quiet roads. There's quite a holiday vibe going on. People are chilling, doing jobs around the house, having barbies at home. Like every day is Sunday.

Looks like cases and deaths are plateauing now and just starting to curve towards a drop. In three weeks the graph will look much better and they'll probably start to relax the rules slowly. I predict they'll let small shops, garden centres and certain other businesses open first. And thereafter it will be controlled release as long as the graph keeps heading downwards.

Looking at the graph though, it's looking less rosy for London and quite dreadful for the US. But we all know why that is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 12:16:36 PM
Much of the information about COvid-19 from the WHO is public.


WHO was advising against travel bans way into late February. They didn't know what they were dealing with. They didn't understand of contagious and dangerous the virus was. They only repeated the information they were given by the Chinese. They failed to validate the info. There needs to be new management at WHO if they want American dollars. If you think they are valuable. Ask your government to fill in the $500 million dollar hole the American government left. Due to early actions, America will be fine compared to Europe. Our death per capita is much lower. We now have enough PPE and ventilators so we can begin helping others. We will be making loans to nations that aren't as rich. America can take care of itself and others. If we start seeing nations collapsing financially, America will be the last to do so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 16, 2020, 01:14:20 PM
Much of the information about COvid-19 from the WHO is public.


WHO was advising against travel bans way into late February. They didn't know what they were dealing with. They didn't understand of contagious and dangerous the virus was. They only repeated the information they were given by the Chinese. They failed to validate the info. There needs to be new management at WHO if they want American dollars. If you think they are valuable. Ask your government to fill in the $500 million dollar hole the American government left. Due to early actions, America will be fine compared to Europe. Our death per capita is much lower. We now have enough PPE and ventilators so we can begin helping others. We will be making loans to nations that aren't as rich. America can take care of itself and others. If we start seeing nations collapsing financially, America will be the last to do so.

Is this what the US fake news media is writing?

Can I suggest you and our other friends from over the pond take a look at the world's media and ge a balanced view from consumption of all? The picture I see is the US has been sclerotic and slow to start taking it seriously. Especially in the epicentres on the east and west coasts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on April 16, 2020, 01:53:56 PM
Is this what the US fake news media is writing?

Can I suggest you and our other friends from over the pond take a look at the world's media and ge a balanced view from consumption of all? The picture I see is the US has been sclerotic and slow to start taking it seriously. Especially in the epicentres on the east and west coasts.

President Trump banned all flights from China Jan 31st.  Everybody called him a racist.  Was the absolute correct decision to make.  He's done all that you would expect any reasonable and rational world leader to do.   

The first 10 amendments to the US Constitution establish what government CANNOT do.

Virtually every state governor has violated our Constitutional rights in the name of the public good. 

Congratulations, friends! You have been instrumental in the beta testing for Government Control 1.0.
The results have surpassed the most optimistic modeling - nearly the entire world has given up literally
everything to government control with nary a peep, much less any resistance. You gave up everything!
All it took was a bit of a scare and some dire warnings and everyone is cowering at home, so many
without work, eyeing others with great suspicion until... whenever... Even better, you have been all too
willing to turn on each other to make Government Control 1.0 largely self executing. The developers
are so impressed with the results that future versions of Government Control will have even more features
involving bank accounts and savings! Don't worry about signing up - subscription is universal and mandatory.



   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 16, 2020, 01:58:25 PM
Manny and Andrew, you both wrote many time up until mid March this was a little more than the Flu ands that countries should not do anything but let is spread and let everyone become immune. Then you criticize the USA for being slow when out infection rates are lower than Europe when you add enough countries to have a population size of the USA.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 16, 2020, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: Manny link=topic=28644.msg509149#msg509149 udate=1587064460
Is this what the US fake news media is writing?

Can I suggest you and our other friends from over the pond take a look at the world's media and ge a balanced view from consumption of all? The picture I see is the US has been sclerotic and slow to start taking it seriously. Especially in the epicentres on the east and west coasts.

These are numbers, they might be off a bit. Partially due to times when reported but close enough.

US Deaths per million of population 103
UK Deaths per million of population 202

I understand numbers can get some confused but this should be simples.

The source is: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 02:26:33 PM

US Deaths per million of population 103
UK Deaths per million of population 202

I understand numbers can get some confused but this should be simples.[/size][/font]


Per capita death of America is 2 times less than Netherland and UK, 2.5 times less than France, 3.5 times less than Italy, and 4 times less than Spain and Belgium. Yet bashing Trump's response to the virus is necessary because Trump is in charge. Facts don't matter. We should judge nations based off results. Most of the blame shouldn't be on governments anyway but on China first, and WHO second for telling human to human transmission wasn't possible, and then for months advising against travel bans on China. Some people still want America to pay $500 million for stupid recommendations like that. Trump was smart enough not to follow WHO's recommendations but some people think he acted late and accuse him of not listening to medical and science experts. Go figure. What nation actually listened to the medical and science experts at WHO pertaining to their travel advice?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Manny and Andrew, you both wrote many time up until mid March this was a little more than the Flu ands that countries should not do anything but let is spread and let everyone become immune.


Anybody that promotes the herd immunity plan should be praising leaders that move slow or does nothing against the virus spread. They should be criticizing Trump for acting too fast on the virus instead of criticizing him for a slow response.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 16, 2020, 02:39:44 PM

US Deaths per million of population 103
UK Deaths per million of population 202

I understand numbers can get some confused but this should be simples.[/size][/font]


Per capita death of America is 2 times less than Netherland and UK, 2.5 times less than France, 3.5 times less than Italy, and 4 times less than Spain and Belgium. Yet bashing Trump's response to the virus is necessary because Trump is in charge. Facts don't matter. We should judge nations based off results. Most of the blame shouldn't be on governments anyway but on China first, and WHO second for telling human to human transmission wasn't possible, and then for months advising against travel bans on China. Some people still want America to pay $500 million for stupid recommendations like that. Trump was smart enough not to follow WHO's recommendations but some people think he acted late and accuse him of not listening to medical and science experts. Go figure. What nation actually listened to the medical and science experts at WHO pertaining to their travel advice?

Well stated!

What would truly be frightening is if H. Clinton was in charge or perhaps J. Biden would become the next president. While there are many things about D. Trump that I dislike, the alternatives become very scary nightmares.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 16, 2020, 06:23:22 PM
Billy, you are right, the published numbers for deaths are lower as a proportion of the population than some other countries. As youwil find out in the coming days there are reasons for that.

However, the absolute balls up of the administration has directly led to the infection rate which is huge and growing and thus to those deaths. The manner in which Team Trump is projecting and casting blame externally tells the story behind the story.

So, for what it is worth, well done to the medics who have been doing a bang up job of keeping folks in hospitals alive. It is sad that around 250 people per day in New York State alone have been dying of Covid-19 without getting any care whatsoever. Those people don't even get to be a part of the death stats on TV every day!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2020, 08:09:34 PM
The manner in which Team Trump is projecting and casting blame externally tells the story behind the story.


There is no story unless you want to make one up. I was blaming China and WHO long before Trump. I was wondering what took him so long to say something. Why are the leaders in Europe silent on this issue? Facts say China wasn't transparent for months, WHO praised them and gave stupid advice. If you don't think China and WHO deserves blame, state your reasons.

By 2004 SARS escapes Chinese lab twice. Female student got infected at the lab.

http://www.the-scientist.com/news-analysis/sars-escaped-beijing-lab-twice-50137

By 2014 SARS had escaped out of Chinese labs 4 times. There's a history of pathogens escaping Chinese labs in this 2014 article.

http://nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-terrifying-history-of-viruses-escaping-from-labs-70s-chinese-pandemic-was-a-lab-mistake
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 16, 2020, 10:15:19 PM
Billy, you are right, the published numbers for deaths are lower as a proportion of the population than some other countries. As youwil find out in the coming days there are reasons for that.

However, the absolute balls up of the administration has directly led to the infection rate which is huge and growing and thus to those deaths. The manner in which Team Trump is projecting and casting blame externally tells the story behind the story.

So, for what it is worth, well done to the medics who have been doing a bang up job of keeping folks in hospitals alive. It is sad that around 250 people per day in New York State alone have been dying of Covid-19 without getting any care whatsoever. Those people don't even get to be a part of the death stats on TV every day!

New York now include deaths from everyone that might of died for covid-19 even if not proven. They have gone back to the beginning of the outbreak and added over 3000 deaths to the number.  So now New York and other large cities are over reporting deaths from Covid-19.

The USA test of 150 thousand people a day and they working on getting the number higher. Not only do the test have to be manufactured but they have to be administered then they have to be sent to a lad that can handle that many test. It is not easy to just take more test.  This number was over a week ago likely higher now and it is up from 30 thousand test a day in early March.  The first batch of test we made in February was defective and had to be remade. It was a human error. It delayed testing for a week. I think our testing rate is higher than most places in Europe per million people.

The mayor of New York was way late to implement distancing plans and close schools that the rest of the country was doing like in places California. So the virus get started better there then else where. California's Los Angeles is in the same country as New York with a much lower infection rate and it is all Trump's fault. Many of the people living in the New York where the outbreak is the worse will not or unable to follow the distancing guidelines making a bad problem worse.

If you subtract the one really bad apple, New York, from the rest of the country the rest of the country is doing very well. That one city is a third of all our deaths and only 8 million people. Then realize that most of the infections are in just a small part of the city where they will not social distance maybe a million people.

Still we are doing much better than Europe though it could be better.

It is an emotional deficiency you have that you need to spend so much of you time bashing the USA. Notice no one on the forum spend hardly any time bashing other countries other a few propagandized induvials against the USA.  What difference does is make to you whether we have a good covid-19 response or not? You must feel inferior in some way to spend this effort and then try to make up fake reasons that we are not doing a good job.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 10:51:03 PM

Still we are doing much better than Europe though it could be better.

On what do you base that assertion .?

Which European nation are you comparing ? Spain, Italy, UK , France ... or Germany - that did test, test, and test again ..

The USA is amongst the nations that tried the herd immunity stunt .. at first ..  Who's still trying THAT ? ...  Belarus and to a certain extent, Sweden .. who's citizens appear to trust govt advice rather than your nation, whereby armed protestors want to spread the virus ( Michigan)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lock-her-anti-whitmer-coronavirus-lockdown-protestors-swarm-michigan-capitol-n1184426 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lock-her-anti-whitmer-coronavirus-lockdown-protestors-swarm-michigan-capitol-n1184426)

(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/lockdown-1586976929.jpg?resize=768:*)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 16, 2020, 11:13:05 PM
The mayor of New York was way late to implement distancing plans and close schools that the rest of the country was doing like in places California. So the virus get started better there then else where. California's Los Angeles is in the same country as New York with a much lower infection rate and it is all Trump's fault. Many of the people living in the New York where the outbreak is the worse will not or unable to follow the distancing guidelines making a bad problem worse.

If you subtract the one really bad apple, New York, from the rest of the country the rest of the country is doing very well. That one city is a third of all our deaths and only 8 million people. Then realize that most of the infections are in just a small part of the city where they will not social distance maybe a million people.

Still we are doing much better than Europe though it could be better.

The Big Apple as New York City is called is doing badly and much of the blame can indeed be laid at the present administrations descions in late February and March. It should be noted the present mayor is quite socialist. Indeed two groups are suffering harder than the general population, this is primarily due to life style.

My guess the 'relaxing' of the protocols for reporting of now 'suspected' deaths due to the virus are a very cynical attempt to paint D. Trump in a bad light. Politicians will be politicians. :sick0012:

Looking at Europe as a whole, the numbers for Germany are remarkable as are the Greeks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 16, 2020, 11:38:13 PM
Looks like Russians aren't going anywhere abroad for at least 3 months


https://meduza.io/news/2020/04/17/aeroflot-priostanovil-prodazhu-biletov-za-rubezh-do-kontsa-iyulya (https://meduza.io/news/2020/04/17/aeroflot-priostanovil-prodazhu-biletov-za-rubezh-do-kontsa-iyulya)

Aeroflot has suspended the sale of tickets abroad until the end of July
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 17, 2020, 12:51:30 AM

China did something strange again. For over 3 weeks, they haven't reported more than 7 deaths a day. Some days they reported zero deaths. Today they reported 1290 deaths. Could it be them attempting to raise the number of deaths to decrease the number of accusations that they are lying? Their reputation is taking a hit. Fortunately for them, there's quite a few people out there that would never hold them responsible. If America did what China did, those same people would go bonkers. They don't recognize their bias.


Looking at Europe as a whole, the numbers for Germany are remarkable as are the Greeks.


How are the Greeks and Germans counting who died of COVID-19? Some nations consider those who died by heart attack and pneumonia as dying by those means instead of COVID-19. Also I read somewhere that Germany was lucky since early infections happened to young people when skiing in Switzerland and of course younger people have a much better survival rate.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 12:56:32 AM
Texan, the virus is apolitical, cares not where it lives, discriminates not one whit.

New York is not special, exceptional or cursed. What is happening there is happening elsewhere, just at a different time. We humans are weird about time, perhaps it keeps us sane in the face of considerable stress. Across the great United States are cities and communities that are, today, where New York was just a few days or weeks ago.

The people in those places are saying the same stuff as you, making the same choices as people in New York.

Remember, virus does not discriminate. Virus is not a snob.

What will happen tomorrow across the Home of the Brave was set in motion weeks ago when your Great Leader rubbished the warnings given by the WHO, U.S intelligence, epidemiologists and other heads of state.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 17, 2020, 01:22:01 AM
Quote
In Wuhan -- where the virus was first detected late last year -- an official announcement raised the city's death toll by half, to a total of 3,869.

Their abacus must be malfunctioning.   :chuckle: (:) :P :duh:


Quote
"Why does the economy matter if we're not around to spend any money because we're all sick?"

It's your money or your life.  Remember that question posed by robbers?   (:)
The 95%+ say that "let the chips fall where they may".   :GRAVE: :Stickouttongue2:

Quote
"We got the idea, since we have to be stuck at home, to do some exercise, otherwise when it's over we'll be stiff, and a bit rigid,"

I think the last part of the statement means that being stiff and rigid is the same as having been embalmed.   :evilgrin0002: :snivel: :( :GRAVE:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-raises-wuhan-death-toll-as-us-plots-re-opening/ar-BB12KV2O

I believe that the Black Death and 1918 pandemic did not usher any major political upheaval in the affected countries.  So the ravaged numbers ended up being taken out without inducing a major world revolution.

You'll probably try to return to normal and forget about the past events until it rears its ugly head at a future time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 17, 2020, 02:48:44 AM
After a full month of shutdown in Netherlands, from next week dentists are allowed to re-open under strict hygiene rules (Emergency care didn't stop for dentists).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 04:08:37 AM
Dcguyusa, adding in these numbers is normal. Up till now the deaths counted have been almost exclusively those that happened in hospital care.

Many people will have died in their home, as normal.

I don't know exactly the process in China, but in the UK, deaths are recorded in two main tracks. There's the ones that happen in hospital. Then there's everything else. The first data to be captured is that in hospitals. The rest is captured by the Office Of National Statistics (ONS). The ONS data has a lag of a month or so as the deaths are reported and recorded by the relatives or carers. The two streams are then blended into a single number. In the UK the ONS data covering Covid-19 is just now starting to show up given its customary lag.

It seems that the Chinese are now blending the data in a similar fashion. The same will probably happen in the United States. I recall that in New York State it was, a few days ago, estimated that there were around 250 Covid-19 related deaths per day happening outside the hospital system. That data will be blended at some point. The delay/lag will be dependent on the work flow for reporting in the state.

As for the Black Death, it had a huge impact on the social order in Europe. It changed the balance of power between the nobility and the workforce as labour became scarce. Society moved at a slower pace back then but the effect of the plague on society was very rapid. The overthrow of the existing power structure took longer to occur but modern European government systems exist in very large part due to the revolutions that took place between a newly empowered populace and the weakened ruling class.

The feudal system died as a result of the plague and gave workers the freedom to manage their own labour for the first time in centuries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 04:56:02 AM
Too late to edit my post just above - the USA is now including deaths where Covid-19 is the probable cause of death. This showed up for data on the 15th April.

This is likely the source of the silly stories in US entertainment/news media about all death certificates showing Covid-19 as cause of death. That's untrue and seems to be a deliberate propaganda falsehood.

What this does mean is that the low death rate we have been seeing from the USA is not as low as has been shown until now. The USA is doing the same as China, the UK and other countries - notwithstanding the anti-China propaganda about death rates over there.

Here's a stable link to information on the topic of the new CDC guidelines: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/ and here is the original link that might get altered as it moves down the page: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

From New York Governor Cuomo:
Quote
"we will begin reporting all categories of fatalities pursuant to new CDC guidelines and are contacting facilities to get updated numbers". There may be additional people who died that have not been counted because not in a hospital.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 17, 2020, 05:42:21 AM
Due to early actions, America will be fine compared to Europe. Our death per capita is much lower. We now have enough PPE and ventilators so we can begin helping others. We will be making loans to nations that aren't as rich. America can take care of itself and others. If we start seeing nations collapsing financially, America will be the last to do so.

Forgive me Billy but this sounds like a statement pulled straight from the Uncle Sam propaganda handbook. Please don't misconstrue my post here because I can assure you that Covid-19 death rates aren't a competition or something anyone can boast about but I'm still unnerved by your optimism and pride.

Looking at todays stats, the US tops the bill when it comes to deaths, active cases, serious/critical status and not especially high on the recovered stats, bearing in mind how much money you have and how wonderful you tell us US health care is. I still maintain that the US is weeks/months behind where Europe was and the worst is yet to come. Now isn't the time for anyone to be happy or making profound statements.

You seem to be comfortable in the deaths per million population stat and you're certainly correct in that it isn't the worst. However, its pretty simplistic to sum the total of a number of European countries and directly compare it to the US. For starters, its doesn't take into account population density per sq/km.

Netherlands 26th @ 507
Belgium 34th @ 381
UK 51st @ 279
Italy 71st at 205
US 177th @ 35

http://statisticstimes.com/demographics/countries-by-population-density.php

It also doesn't take into account the demographics of regions, countries and continents. I guess what I'm saying here is that data can be manipulated to justify any argument, mine included.

I also believe there will be a second wave from the virus either later this year or early next and the sum total in a couple of years will give us a more exact science with which to debate. I maintain and have done all along, the US will face its biggest losses in the coming months whilst it feels like we've started to flatten the curve, hopefully! Right now your boasting is like saying the leading car after 3 hours at the Le Mans 24 has won the race.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2020, 07:39:05 AM
I am simply just amazed to comeback and read this thread to find out that all the Brain-dead or programmed members from the mass US media continue trying to blame anybody else and find any reasons of excuse for the plain fcuk up of their President and the US administration to take the necessary measures and actions to protect their people.

I think in my last post on this thread, 1460, I posted the Guardian article and none of the US members accepted the criticism or provided any reasonable explanations for their comments and accusations.

Donald Trump’s declared suspension of funding of the World Health (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/15/trump-turns-against-who-to-mask-his-own-stark-failings-on-covid-19-crisis)

A Greek professor from Boston University/US, talking on a Greek Radio explained to us that the US people don’t hear any news reports from EU and other Media……with different views and rely mostly in the local Media. I was aware about it but that was an additional confirmation and explains well why all of you are brain washed!

To my surprise even Moby, who almost never agree with my views…… agreed with the views expressed in the article!

Well continue talking crap while the US $ Dollar is kept artificially high…..but soon will start nose diving together with your Empire and I am off to an afternoon siesta.!

BTW your Fcuking Democracy is not better from that one in China that you describe as Dictatorship!

 NY Times flip-flops on Covid-19 contact tracers (https://www.rt.com/usa/486046-nytimes-contact-tracers-hypocrisy-china/)

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.04/l/5e98acb185f54074b5207c9e.JPG)

Protesting is a "non-essential" activity, citizen!

 :sick0012:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 17, 2020, 08:17:03 AM

Still we are doing much better than Europe though it could be better.

On what do you base that assertion .?

Which European nation are you comparing ? Spain, Italy, UK , France ... or Germany - that did test, test, and test again ..

The USA is amongst the nations that tried the herd immunity stunt .. at first ..

ms your challenges do not only extend to language but also numbers. One needs to look at numeric statistics to see certain simple realities. I assume this is the basis of Texan's assertion. I will wait till latter tonight to post the most recent data.

In the meantime you can cuddle up to Wiz in your smug ignorance.  tiphat

Andrew has for a while posted that a herd immunity reality will be the way forward. I suspect he is correct and what nations with different degrees of success are pursuing this reality. The isolation and shut downs are to avoid overwhelming the medical infrastructure of individual nations.

The idea of population density that Rosco mentions affecting cases and numbers makes sense. Using this logic it can explain the sad realities of New York City, Moscow, London and other densely populated regions. But than a comparison between say Belgium and The Netherlands makes less sense with regards to the numbers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2020, 08:41:45 AM
In the meantime you can cuddle up to Wiz in your smug ignorance.  tiphat 

The only smug and ignorant person, its a Zionist Troll who supports dishonest actions, reaping off unashamedly his host country, left right and centre, because he is working for an Jewish NGO Charitable organisation and the Idiots from USA people, are paying these NGO's and also the state of Isra(h)el billions of Dollars every year!

 >:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 17, 2020, 08:46:05 AM
In the meantime you can cuddle up to Wiz in your smug ignorance.  tiphat 

The only smug and ignorant person, its a Zionist Troll who supports dishonest actions, reaping off unashamedly his host country, left right and centre, because he is working for an Jewish NGO Charitable organisation and the Idiots from USA people, are paying these NGO's and also the state of Isra(h)el billions of Dollars every year!

 >:(
I'm sorry, but whether you agree with Wiz or not, that's a funny post. And you know what they say, there's always a little truth in humor  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 08:46:21 AM
When it comes to tracking the scores on the doors I take note of the Worldmeters site. They seem to try to reallocate amended data historically so a spike one day, as happened in China and the USA will be amended if they can be spread and allocated to the 'right' days. They also seem to try to use data that is consistent in terms of its collection across countries.

That latter point is what makes direct comparison of numbers tough. The most useful comparison is the trends. For example, we know that in the UK there has been no overwhelming of the health service. On that basis, there should be no great difference in the case death rate.

However, drilling into the numbers and methodology we can see at least a part of what is going on. The UK encourages people with Covid-19 symptoms to self isolate at home. They have not been getting tested and thus never show up in the total case numbers. In other countries people with symptoms have been more likely to be tested and often hospitalised earlier than the UK.

The effect of this is to increase the proportion of UK infectees to show up in the stats as dead among the total population of confirmed covid-19 cases. If more Britons were hospitalised then the Death rate would appear to go down.

There are other anomalies that can be seen. Although the WHO has standards and definitions for matters such as probable cause of death and infection definitions and track/trace strategies, these are not universally followed. What might show as an infection in one country will not show up in another.

So there's little point in pointing at comparative numbers and drawing conclusions at this time. We can look at strategies and trends more successfully though and that's what I try to do in my role as a leading armchair epidemiologist.

Numbers are really important though. The virus is not a mathematician but it's progress can be tracked with some simple maths and that won't really vary much. It's the relatively well known behaviour of the virus that enables us to draw some rough benchmarking conclusions. It's why we can be pretty sure that parts of the USA that have, so far, not been hugely affected will be. That last inference enables us to surmise that an early claim of victory in the US campaign of WWC is a mistake.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 17, 2020, 09:26:27 AM
In the meantime you can cuddle up to Wiz in your smug ignorance.  tiphat 

The only smug and ignorant person, its a Zionist Troll who supports dishonest actions, reaping off unashamedly his host country, left right and centre, because he is working for an Jewish NGO Charitable organisation and the Idiots from USA people, are paying these NGO's and also the state of Isra(h)el billions of Dollars every year!

 >:(
I'm sorry, but whether you agree with Wiz or not, that's a funny post. And you know what they say, there's always a little truth in humor  ;D

I am told that I am rather irreverent and chill. I can laugh with others and at myself. The blind hatred and bigotry of Wiz is NOT something that is humorous. He is a sick person.

It is worth noting that I was addressing ms, but as has been noted they are peas in a pod.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2020, 09:37:06 AM
In the meantime you can cuddle up to Wiz in your smug ignorance.  tiphat 

The only smug and ignorant person, its a Zionist Troll who supports dishonest actions, reaping off unashamedly his host country, left right and centre, because he is working for an Jewish NGO Charitable organisation and the Idiots from USA people, are paying these NGO's and also the state of Isra(h)el billions of Dollars every year!

 >:(
I'm sorry, but whether you agree with Wiz or not, that's a funny post. And you know what they say, there's always a little truth in humor  ;D

I am told that I am rather irreverent and chill. I can laugh with others and at myself. The blind hatred and bigotry of Wiz is NOT something that is humorous. He is a sick person.

It is worth noting that I was addressing ms, but as has been noted they are peas in a pod.

I have plenty sense of humour with the right company...... so don't make any comments about my person if you cannot face my disdain! >:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 17, 2020, 09:45:50 AM
In the meantime you can cuddle up to Wiz in your smug ignorance.  tiphat 

The only smug and ignorant person, its a Zionist Troll who supports dishonest actions, reaping off unashamedly his host country, left right and centre, because he is working for an Jewish NGO Charitable organisation and the Idiots from USA people, are paying these NGO's and also the state of Isra(h)el billions of Dollars every year!

 >:(
I'm sorry, but whether you agree with Wiz or not, that's a funny post. And you know what they say, there's always a little truth in humor  ;D

I am told that I am rather irreverent and chill. I can laugh with others and at myself. The blind hatred and bigotry of Wiz is NOT something that is humorous. He is a sick person.

It is worth noting that I was addressing ms, but as has been noted they are peas in a pod.

I have plenty sense of humour with the right company...... so don't make any comments about my person if you cannot face my disdain! >:(

While I have met a number of posters who are decent. Generally one can only judge another posters by what they write. Wiz your posts are consistently fugly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 17, 2020, 11:05:50 AM
your Great Leader rubbished the warnings given by the WHO, U.S intelligence, epidemiologists and other heads of state.


Is that what fake news been teaching you? Dr Fauci head of infectious diseases said Trump always followed his advice and dismissed WHO's advice against travel restrictions in January. Trump didn't ignore US intelligence. While you and heads of states were focused on his impeachment in January and February, Trump took action in January. He knew China was lying and WHO was repeating their lies.

Due to early actions, America will be fine compared to Europe. Our death per capita is much lower. We now have enough PPE and ventilators so we can begin helping others. We will be making loans to nations that aren't as rich. America can take care of itself and others. If we start seeing nations collapsing financially, America will be the last to do so.

Forgive me Billy but this sounds like a statement pulled straight from the Uncle Sam propaganda handbook. Please don't misconstrue my post here because I can assure you that Covid-19 death rates aren't a competition or something anyone can boast about but I'm still unnerved by your optimism and pride.


I'm not the one who started to keep score. I've been telling everybody to put the blame on China and WHO but people want to talk about deaths in America because of their pride. They started it. I'm just a participant in their games.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 11:17:26 AM
Billy, do you REALLY think that Trump relies entirely uon just ONE source for advice?

You obviously do not know about reports prepared for the president going back into December of 2019.

Look, here's the thing, I cannot know the extent of what you don't know. All I can see are the limits on what you do know (and those are very constrained limits).

All I can repeat is this: go away and do some learning, this stuff is not secret, it is a matter of record. The timeline of events is not a mystery, but it might help you to write it out for yourself to help you to retain it. What you are doing is trying to find a fixed point that supports your limited understanding. I get that, many people do the same thing. The problem is that the world ins a complex sort of a thing with more than one strand to most events. Fixating on a single item in a complex pattern is usually going to misled you.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 11:36:45 AM
I just read a letter to the editor on nature.com investigating the origin of the Coronavirus. Interesting stuff.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

The researchers looked at SARS-CoV-2 to ascertain its origin, whether it was natural or a lab made creation. What they found was strong evidence to support the hypothesis that the virus is a natural evolution of a virus strain in the animal kingdom.

In addition the virus has features that make it very unlikely that SARS-CoV-2 was made or adapted in a laboratory. There's a few long words and specific terminology but the basis is that the manner in which the virus binds to ACE-2 receptors while effective at the job is imperfect. It is unlikely that a researcher would create such a method and yet leave it imperfect.

There are other issues but that was the one which stood out. A craftsman does not like to leave a job unfinished.

The foregoing does not mean the virus did not find its way to the world through a lab, but it is hard to imagine how. The researchers looked at whether the virus showed signs of having been developed outside of an animal host and there were no traces of that being the case. This means it would not be likely to have come from a research laboratory becasue it is not possible to work on developing or modifying a virus without using in vitro techniques.

Using genetic aging techniques the team found that the virus had its origins sometime in November/December 2019.

From the conclusions:
Quote
However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.

The researchers suggest that finding the virus in its animal predecessor is an important next step becasue it is now a store of Coronavirus waiting to reappear in the future.

So, that's a load of conspiracy theories shot down. Looks like the U.S General who came out the other day and said that the opinion of the army was that this was not a laboratory created virus or a bio weapon seems to be based upon science and not pulled from his arse.

I confess, I kind of liked the idea that Coronavirus might have been taken to China. :(

--------------------
Sorry for the double post, I did not want to muddy this post with sillybillyness.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 17, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
Coronavirus Clue? Most Cases Aboard US Aircraft Carrier Are Symptom-Free
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928839

It looks like when a healthy young population is exposed to Covid-19  that a large majority become infected without any symptoms.

60% of the matelots on the carrier who have tested positive are totally asymptomatic!

Really bad for U.S public health planning, bit on the other hand, good for the general population, assuming that the population is not a bunch of fatties with diabetes and high blood pressure!

The only safe way to manage exit from lockdown in this scenario is to give everybody antibody tests - and that ain't gonna happen!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on April 17, 2020, 12:06:03 PM
Billy, do you REALLY think that Trump relies entirely uon just ONE source for advice?

You obviously do not know about reports prepared for the president going back into December of 2019.

Look, here's the thing, I cannot know the extent of what you don't know. All I can see are the limits on what you do know (and those are very constrained limits).

All I can repeat is this: go away and do some learning, this stuff is not secret, it is a matter of record. The timeline of events is not a mystery, but it might help you to write it out for yourself to help you to retain it. What you are doing is trying to find a fixed point that supports your limited understanding. I get that, many people do the same thing. The problem is that the world ins a complex sort of a thing with more than one strand to most events. Fixating on a single item in a complex pattern is usually going to misled you.

I am trying to figure what is worse, a bias based on limited knowledge or a highly prejudicial bias based personal hatreds.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 17, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
The only safe way to manage exit from lockdown in this scenario is to give everybody antibody tests - and that ain't gonna happen!

With a bit too much free time, I can read and study some topics that are foreign to me. At least I have not decided to learn to play a musical instrument! That would be cruel and unusual torture to all that hear the sounds.

One subject that has often come up on European centric publications are the parallels to the AIDS ~ HIV epidemic. There are some valuable comparasions and insights.

The other subject that I read last month and again early this week is that a vaccine and antibody test will never be available. The second time coming from a French epidemiologist busy with AIDS. If true this is going make many assumptions that government leaders are making simply wrong. In some respects we will be back to the starting gate.

Sort of like the boy who is going to have a father son talk about the birds and bees. Crying he sobs no no. His father asks son what is wrong? Between sobs he says when I was 8 you told me there was no Easter Bunny, and when I was 10 Santa did not really exist.

Now if you tell me there is no sex, what is there to live for?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 17, 2020, 12:28:38 PM
 Straight from the horse's mouth. Fauci says Trump took his medical advisor's advice EVERY time they told him to do something, contrary to what some people here are trying to say.

https://www.facebook.com/officialbenshapiro/videos/650979352361583/

 Meanwhile when the US was stopping flights we were being told that doing that would make no difference, until mid March. And from the point where the pandemic was announced to when we finally did stop flights coming in over 2,000 people were let into the country from Wuhan province alone. Because WHO said it was ok!  (:)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 17, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
 Meanwhile here in Canada.... the Liberal govt is trying to introduce legislation that controls what information we receive about the virus. They want to make sure we get the narrative THEY decide we should... to hell with our rights and freedoms. If you guys don't see me around for a while it's probably because RUA is banned from Canada!  :chuckle:

https://www.facebook.com/RachaelHarderMP/videos/2601428343437974/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 17, 2020, 12:37:39 PM
. . . that's a load of conspiracy theories shot down. Looks like the U.S General who came out the other day and said that the opinion of the army was that this was not a laboratory created virus or a bio weapon seems to be based upon science and not pulled from his arse.

Sort of feel sorry for Wiz & Confederate! Wonder if they will be able to accept this though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on April 17, 2020, 01:37:22 PM
The foregoing does not mean the virus did not find its way to the world through a lab, but it is hard to imagine how. The researchers looked at whether the virus showed signs of having been developed outside of an animal host and there were no traces of that being the case. This means it would not be likely to have come from a research laboratory because it is not possible to work on developing or modifying a virus without using in vitro techniques.

I'm with ya all the way to your conclusion.

Don't you think it's highly probably that the virus spread from a worker in the lab who was accidentally infected while working on the virus?  One infected person in a metropolitan area of 11 million could eventually become a disaster when dealing with a disease this contagious.   

I don't think the frickin' bat flew 800 miles from his cave to end up for sale in a Chiness wet market.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 17, 2020, 01:44:17 PM
The foregoing does not mean the virus did not find its way to the world through a lab, but it is hard to imagine how. The researchers looked at whether the virus showed signs of having been developed outside of an animal host and there were no traces of that being the case. This means it would not be likely to have come from a research laboratory because it is not possible to work on developing or modifying a virus without using in vitro techniques.

I'm with ya all the way to your conclusion.

Don't you think it's highly probably that the virus spread from a worker in the lab who was accidentally infected while working on the virus?  One infected person in a metropolitan area of 11 million could eventually become a disaster when dealing with a disease this contagious.   

I don't think the frickin' bat flew 800 miles from his cave to end up for sale in a Chiness wet market.   

I was reading something from China recently that suggested they now know the cave complex where the host bats are. And a likely scenario was now a wild dog eating a dead bat, and from there the dog infected other dogs and someone ate one bought at that market that was infected. Seems like they discounted the pangolin idea.

The article suggested bats have been occasionally giving us viruses indirectly for thousands of years. It isnt the first, and it won't be the last.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2020, 02:37:43 PM
Billy, do you REALLY think that Trump relies entirely uon just ONE source for advice?

You obviously do not know about reports prepared for the president going back into December of 2019.

Look, here's the thing, I cannot know the extent of what you don't know. All I can see are the limits on what you do know (and those are very constrained limits).

All I can repeat is this: go away and do some learning, this stuff is not secret, it is a matter of record. The timeline of events is not a mystery, but it might help you to write it out for yourself to help you to retain it. What you are doing is trying to find a fixed point that supports your limited understanding. I get that, many people do the same thing. The problem is that the world ins a complex sort of a thing with more than one strand to most events. Fixating on a single item in a complex pattern is usually going to misled you.

Do you by any chance read the same sites like me .......?  Maybe!

Did you read the comments about the US Army participation in Wuhan games at the end of October 2019 and also the coincident that the Chinese discovered the infection in late November.......and locked down the Wuhan and Hubei area, which is larger than the Balkans?

Did you hear the statement that the US was participating in research at the Wuhan laboratory and some 6 + months before the infection appeared they withdraw from the joint work?

What happened to that statement from the Chinese official of their Foreign Office, accusing America for they spread of the infection?

Too many coincidences don't you think and a lot of FAKE propaganda and other news arriving from the other side of the pon?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 17, 2020, 02:43:57 PM
I was reading something from China recently that suggested they now know the cave complex where the host bats are. And a likely scenario was now a wild dog eating a dead bat, and from there the dog infected other dogs and someone ate one bought at that market that was infected. Seems like they discounted the pangolin idea.


The bats that contain the coronavirus most closely related to ours, 96% identical, is located 1300 miles or 2100 km from Wuhan. I doubt they ship bats and dogs that far to Wuhan when Wuhan has bat caves and dogs closer.

I am trying to figure what is worse, a bias based on limited knowledge or a highly prejudicial bias based personal hatreds.


I've known Andrew on these forums since 2004. He's been predicting the end of America for at least 16 years and he's never been right.

I just read a letter to the editor on nature.com investigating the origin of the Coronavirus. Interesting stuff.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

The researchers looked at SARS-CoV-2 to ascertain its origin, whether it was natural or a lab made creation. What they found was strong evidence to support the hypothesis that the virus is a natural evolution of a virus strain in the animal kingdom.

In addition the virus has features that make it very unlikely that SARS-CoV-2 was made or adapted in a laboratory. There's a few long words and specific terminology but the basis is that the manner in which the virus binds to ACE-2 receptors while effective at the job is imperfect. It is unlikely that a researcher would create such a method and yet leave it imperfect.

There are other issues but that was the one which stood out. A craftsman does not like to leave a job unfinished.

The foregoing does not mean the virus did not find its way to the world through a lab, but it is hard to imagine how. The researchers looked at whether the virus showed signs of having been developed outside of an animal host and there were no traces of that being the case. This means it would not be likely to have come from a research laboratory becasue it is not possible to work on developing or modifying a virus without using in vitro techniques.

Using genetic aging techniques the team found that the virus had its origins sometime in November/December 2019.

From the conclusions:
Quote
However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.

The researchers suggest that finding the virus in its animal predecessor is an important next step becasue it is now a store of Coronavirus waiting to reappear in the future.

So, that's a load of conspiracy theories shot down. Looks like the U.S General who came out the other day and said that the opinion of the army was that this was not a laboratory created virus or a bio weapon seems to be based upon science and not pulled from his arse.

I confess, I kind of liked the idea that Coronavirus might have been taken to China. :(

--------------------
Sorry for the double post, I did not want to muddy this post with sillybillyness.



Andrew loves propaganda. The folks at nature.com did not do their own research. Check out their references at the bottom of the article. They heavily relied on the research done by Chinese scientists in China to come up with their conclusion. No news or studies get released without Government approval in China.

Andrew, if it makes you feel better, I will agree after all nations submit data, America will look like the sickest nation with by far the most deaths but somehow we will also end up being the healthiest nation and other nations will depend on us for loans to finance their fight against the virus and to keep their economies from collapsing. Go figure.

Did you read the comments about the US Army participation in Wuhan games at the end of October 2019 and also the coincident that the Chinese discovered the infection in late November.......and locked down the Wuhan and Hubei area, which is larger than the Balkans?


Wiz, I can agree with you that the virus was out in November but China was silencing whistleblowers the whole time, and when they couldn't hide it anymore, they told WHO December 31 the virus originated out of a Wuhan wet market based off their investigations and also told them the virus wasn't human to human transferable. If they could blame somebody, they would make an international announcement with evidence but they already admitted the virus is their baby. The propaganda you read that the virus was released by American soldiers is for their own people so they don't go hating on their government. Too bad you fell for it. You will fall for anything that mentions USA is bad. Don't be so naïve and bias.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2020, 03:27:46 PM
Wiz, I can agree with you that the virus was out in November but China was silencing whistleblowers the whole time, and when they couldn't hide it anymore, they told WHO December 31 the virus originated out of a Wuhan wet market based off their investigations and also told them the virus wasn't human to human transferable. If they could blame somebody, they would make an international announcement with evidence but they already admitted the virus is their baby. The propaganda you read that the virus was released by American soldiers is for their own people so they don't go hating on their government. Too bad you fell for it. You will fall for anything that mentions USA is bad. Don't be so naïve and bias.

I also know Andrew since 2003 and we had plenty discussions over the years.

I can assure you that whatever I read I do not take it at face value..... I try to check and if I can't... then I keep an eye.

I don't believe whatever any government on the world and politicians say because when they open their mouth...always lye.

Go back to that Guardian article and check the dates......... Sorry but it is your President who lied and now is trying to cover his Ass. Pointless to repeat the same story... Read again... it is all there.

You seem to forget that you have elections soon........  tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 17, 2020, 03:29:12 PM
Texas qualifies to start to reopening. Traffic already picking up roads full of cars. Governor, Houston mayor and reopening news all over TV today. About half of the country is ready to start back to work on phase one of reopen.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 17, 2020, 04:59:08 PM
I was reading something from China recently that suggested they now know the cave complex where the host bats are. And a likely scenario was now a wild dog eating a dead bat, and from there the dog infected other dogs and someone ate one bought at that market that was infected. Seems like they discounted the pangolin idea.


The bats that contain the coronavirus most closely related to ours, 96% identical, is located 1300 miles or 2100 km from Wuhan. I doubt they ship bats and dogs that far to Wuhan

It’s not as if we ship little bits of plastic crap 6000 miles from China.  :coffeeread:

It may be that you need to understand the dogmeat trade in China. I don’t and you probably don’t either. But those bats having that 96% similar virus means something. It sounds like you’ve read the same article I did; I just can’t remember the source.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 18, 2020, 12:36:20 AM
‘No evidence’ connecting Covid-19 to Wuhan lab – French official

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.04/l/5e99dbd185f54023775c291f.JPG)

A French presidential official has batted down rumors alleging a link between the coronavirus epidemic and a virology lab in Wuhan, reiterating that there is “no factual evidence” to support the increasingly US-backed claims.

“We would like to make it clear that there is to this day no factual evidence corroborating the information recently circulating in the United States press that establishes a link between the origins of COVID-19 and the work of the P4 laboratory of Wuhan, China,” the official told reporters on Friday.

Read the full article here: ‘No evidence’ connecting Covid-19 to Wuhan lab- French official (https://www.rt.com/news/486165-france-counters-wuhan-rumors-coronavirus/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 18, 2020, 01:43:21 AM
Reinfections seem to be a problem from this virus. Unlike of other virus this virus came from bats. Bats have one of the world's most highly developed immune systems. A virus has to be quite creative to survive in bats. There are questions whether any therapy or vaccine will be effective for very long. 

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/other/poor-immunity-or-mutations-south-korea-investigates-shrewd-coronavirus-as-reinfections-creep-up/ar-BB12Jo14?li=BBr8YXK

Gilead Sciences, Inc. is in phase two trails of a cure for coronavirus. When they asked the people putting on the trail early results seemed to be very good. There are a number of locations where the trail is being done and this one just one of them. They said un officially that the trial people receiving the therapy had gone from server to well in a week with no deaths. We will have to wait to the end of the trail to see if this happened at all locations and hold up over time.

Japan is having a resurgent in cases. This is what is likely to be in our future where we have to keep opening up economies and then shut them down again in hot spots.

Here in Texas they plan to take hospital off of emergency status in most of the state on the 24 of April and let them resume normal work and test. This actually puts a lot of medical workers back to work as many of them had been laid off if they were not working with covid-19. Factories and other wear house businesses will be able to open on May 1, After two weeks and on going testing then retail stores will be able to open if all looks good. Then May 31 Bars, pubs will be able to open. No schools for the rest of the year. No large gatherings of more than ten people anytime in the plan including sport events. There will be new rules for all reopening business to protect workers and customers. Here, Houston was the hot spot in Texas and it will likely be delay a little its opening.

The USA is now testing more per million people than South Korea. We are still trying to gear testing up farther so employers can test workers and other people that come in contact with the public.

Wiz you will believe anything. Trump made a comment because he is pissed off at the Chinese over them claiming that a USA lab made the virus. So when there was a completely fake  story he said maybe a Chinese lab made it. I do not think anyone took him seriously because most people here know the complete story. None of the news that I have read picked up on it. Just fake RT news again.  All the news here says it came from bats through a wet market in Wuhan. No body made the virus or wanted it. Trump is not pushing a different version neither.

A real story on just how un popular Chinese government is in the USA. Bidden is claiming that Trump was too soft on China over its virus over up. This is new because he was always so pro Chinese you can not believe it. Now that he is seen while in office he was selling the USA out he is beginning to change his tune. I am not sure what he will do if he wins but one news story I read on it said it is looking like he wants to claim he will be harder on China than Trump.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 18, 2020, 02:46:03 AM
Interesting read and some conclusive evidence. Whether you believe the facts stated or not, and I tend to go along with much if not all of this BTW, it surely is food for thought. #13 supports a previous claim in an article I posted a few days ago. #20 for the "conspiracy theorists".

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

P.S. don't just stop at #20 :).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 18, 2020, 02:53:36 AM
And some facts for some perspective:.

A total of 1.5 million people died from TB in 2018 (including 251 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

An estimated 10 million people fell ill with tuberculosis(TB) worldwide in 2018. 5.7 million men, 3.2 million women and 1.1 million children. 250,00 children died from TB in 2018 alone.

I haven't seen Confederate post lately, but count me a one who believes this coronavirus lockdown is a crock.

Sure, it' serious, but it isn't lockdown serious as far as I'm concerned.

I've waited for some time to post on this as information we have now is much more conclusive than even a month ago. This is with regards to transmission from surfaces to people, people to people and treatment available among other things.


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 18, 2020, 03:01:01 AM
Wiz, this one is for you. Or better yet, do you, or have you ever heard of Qliphoth?

Does it hold the key to control of the world?  :smokin: :hidechair:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 18, 2020, 03:38:05 AM
Interesting read and some conclusive evidence. Whether you believe the facts stated or not, and I tend to go along with much if not all of this BTW, it surely is food for thought. #13 supports a previous claim in an article I posted a few days ago. #20 for the "conspiracy theorists".

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

P.S. don't just stop at #20 :).

FACT: there are a lot of rather misleading 'facts' ..

Italy / China :  NEVER have hospitals been as overloaded by flu' or any other disease

The whole idea of a lockdown is to flatten the curve  - to give the healthcare services a chance to cope


I mean other than Cornfed ( and now you )  who SERIOUSLY believes this 'conspiracy' got most nations agreeing to lockdowns over the v.serious implications for the economy?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 18, 2020, 11:48:05 AM
It is starting to get bloody boring all this lock down.. work all day long and can't even go out for a pint or something to eat.. we was thinking what we can do in our free time.. wife said what about a fight we could bring something up!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 18, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Wiz, this one is for you. Or better yet, do you, or have you ever heard of Qliphoth?

Does it hold the key to control of the world?  :smokin: :hidechair:

No I haven't but I have my friend "Google" who tells me.....

"The Qliphoth/Qlippoth/Qlifot or Kelipot, literally "Peels", "Shells" or "Husks", are the representation of evil or impure spiritual forces in Jewish mysticism, the polar opposites of the holy Sefirot. The realm of evil is also termed Sitra Achra/Aḥra in Kabbalah texts."

Have you read about the Russian and  Bolshevik  History to realise the vile race who terrorised and killed so many innocent people by creating/running the revolution and the secret service or KGB and NKVD.?

Has it crossed your mind why all Jews, wherever they go to live always change their names adjusting to be similar to local norms?

WHY they are so popular with other races/Nations and why they hate the Greek Race and always tried to destroy it?
 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on April 18, 2020, 12:56:52 PM
Experienced lawyers will tell you this -

"When you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras"

Accordingly, unless you buy a theory that the virus was INTENTIONALLY released, the overwhelmingly most logical conclusion is that the virus was spread by accident from a worker in the lab who was accidentally infected while working on the virus?  One infected person in a metropolitan area of 11 million could eventually become a disaster when dealing with a disease this contagious.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 18, 2020, 01:54:51 PM

Has it crossed your mind why all Jews, wherever they go to live always change their names adjusting to be similar to local norms?

Seeing as 'we' still all know their lineage, one does wonder ...   probably folks like you ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 18, 2020, 02:36:46 PM
And some facts for some perspective:.

A total of 1.5 million people died from TB in 2018 (including 251 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

An estimated 10 million people fell ill with tuberculosis(TB) worldwide in 2018. 5.7 million men, 3.2 million women and 1.1 million children. 250,00 children died from TB in 2018 alone.

I haven't seen Confederate post lately, but count me a one who believes this coronavirus lockdown is a crock.

Sure, it' serious, but it isn't lockdown serious as far as I'm concerned.

I've waited for some time to post on this as information we have now is much more conclusive than even a month ago. This is with regards to transmission from surfaces to people, people to people and treatment available among other things.

 


March 18, in around 3 months of the virus running loose, the world had less than 9000 deaths and people were dismissing coronavirus as no worse than the flu. A month later we got 160,000  deaths worldwide so it's going to soon pass flu yearly totals in just over a month. That means people now got to compare it to TB since the flu comparison doesn't work anymore. With exponential growth, we went from 9000 deaths to 160,000 deaths in a month although we took action against the virus. Do you want to see what one month of exponential growth from 160,000 deaths will be if we did nothing? How good is your math?


The only traffic jams in Moscow are coming from ambulances. Video of the situation below. Don't worry. The Russian government has a plan to keep the number of infections and deaths low. You will read about the low numbers in the reports they send to WHO.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9laZo_1586643988
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 18, 2020, 02:45:31 PM
And some facts for some perspective:.

A total of 1.5 million people died from TB in 2018 (including 251 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

An estimated 10 million people fell ill with tuberculosis(TB) worldwide in 2018. 5.7 million men, 3.2 million women and 1.1 million children. 250,00 children died from TB in 2018 alone.

I haven't seen Confederate post lately, but count me a one who believes this coronavirus lockdown is a crock.

Sure, it' serious, but it isn't lockdown serious as far as I'm concerned.

I've waited for some time to post on this as information we have now is much more conclusive than even a month ago. This is with regards to transmission from surfaces to people, people to people and treatment available among other things.


This virus is being combatted with one of the heaviest tools we have in our arsenal. A tool that costs every country billions. Lockdown! yet it is still spreading fast and the deathtoll is still exponential-scaled on a global level and not linear which is more benign.

In just 2 weeks , the USA skyrocketted from a few 100s of deaths to the number 1 deathtoll worldwide in absolute numbers.

That tells us something. And the death-toll isn't even the only problem we're facing. Many people require life-long healthcare even if they survive the virus.

No, this is nowhere near a flu or even TB. This is becoming something like that flu during world-war-1 but that one wasn't combatted as heavily as Covid19.

I hope the buck stops here and TB will have more victims worldwide in a year, but i rather doubt it so far.

Cause right now , covid already has more than 20% of TB victims world wide and is showing no signs of slowing down yet.
The death toll of Covid is also staggering and also still not slowing down on a global level.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 18, 2020, 02:46:40 PM
Quote
The interview followed a This Morning investigation which claimed 250,000 women were being offered free or discounted rent in exchange for sexual favours in the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/landlord-sex-for-rent-this-morning-law-prostitution-a8309496.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/02/sex-for-rent-accommodation-rogue-landlords-campaign

I knew it would end up this way.   (:)  The old sugar daddy/sugar baby arrangement comes out again.   :evilgrin0002: :P
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 18, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Quote
That tells us something. And the death-toll isn't even the only problem we're facing. Many people require life-long healthcare even if they survive the virus.

A large portion of the deaths are the aged and institutionalized.  These are sedentary people locked up in nursing homes.  Did they go overseas and contract the infection?  They have been bedridden for a long time.  The only way that they got it is from disease vectors.  And you know who those disease vectors are.   (:) :evilgrin0002: :biggrin:

P.S.  What do you do with a rabid animal? :sick0012: :whist11: :eeekk:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 18, 2020, 03:27:27 PM
Quote
The interview followed a This Morning investigation which claimed 250,000 women were being offered free or discounted rent in exchange for sexual favours in the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/landlord-sex-for-rent-this-morning-law-prostitution-a8309496.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/02/sex-for-rent-accommodation-rogue-landlords-campaign

I knew it would end up this way.   (:)  The old sugar daddy/sugar baby arrangement comes out again.   :evilgrin0002: :P

You are 2 years late with the subject...........look the date of the articles!

Any how.... it is very old subject......married men from time and memorial had mistresses........on the side. This is a slight Variation......

Women do the same..... working as Escorts or older lonely women looking and using escorts...... and pay for their services too! :nod:

Belle de Jour is a research student with a PhD. Shocked? (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1228136/BELLE-DE-JOUR-UNMASKED-The-high-class-escort-girl-diary-sensation-research-student-PhD-Shocked-Not-boyfriend-deceived.html)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 18, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
Quote
The interview followed a This Morning investigation which claimed 250,000 women were being offered free or discounted rent in exchange for sexual favours in the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/landlord-sex-for-rent-this-morning-law-prostitution-a8309496.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/02/sex-for-rent-accommodation-rogue-landlords-campaign

I knew it would end up this way.   (:)  The old sugar daddy/sugar baby arrangement comes out again.   :evilgrin0002: :P

You are 2 years late with the subject...........look the date of the articles!

Any how.... it is very old subject......married men from time and memorial had mistresses........on the side. This is a slight Variation......

Women do the same..... working as Escorts or older lonely women looking and using escorts...... and pay for their services too! :nod:

Belle de Jour is a research student with a PhD. Shocked? (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1228136/BELLE-DE-JOUR-UNMASKED-The-high-class-escort-girl-diary-sensation-research-student-PhD-Shocked-Not-boyfriend-deceived.html)

 tiphat

Of course I am late.  I am referring to the "world's oldest profession".   :evilgrin0002: :biggrin:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/landlords-are-targeting-vulnerable-tenants-solicit-sex-exchange-rent-advocates-n1186416

https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/landlords-sexually-harassing-tenants-during-coronavirus-crisis/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 18, 2020, 04:04:19 PM
Quote
The back-to-back controversies have also invited renewed scrutiny of Oprah Winfrey, who helped both men make the transition into broadcasting, and has been criticized for a giving a platform to people such as actress and anti-vaccine activist Jenny McCarthy.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-04-17/dr-phil-dr-oz-fox-news-coronavirus-controversy

So Oprah is behind all of this.    :chuckle: (:) :biggrin: :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 18, 2020, 04:17:37 PM
Quote
“So let’s say 50 percent of the population is already infected, and then those temperatures arrive and then those humidity levels arrive, then what difference can those temperatures and humidity levels be? Probably none. That’s the thing."
“We do have cases of the flu in the summer,”

https://news.yahoo.com/sunlight-destroys-coronavirus-very-quickly-new-government-tests-find-but-experts-say-pandemic-could-still-last-through-summer-200745675.html

Global warming will not save you.   :chuckle: (:) ??? :-\ :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 18, 2020, 06:09:45 PM
Quote
Remdesivir causes the virus to add mutations that can destroy it.

https://news.yahoo.com/experimental-virus-drug-remdesivir-effective-monkeys-study-083554106.html

https://www.wtva.com/content/national/569732632.html

Another "game changer"?
You mutated before, you can mutate again.   :chuckle: (:) :-\ :thumbsup:   :nod:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_X_(TV_series)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 18, 2020, 08:25:40 PM
It is starting to get bloody boring all this lock down.. work all day long and can't even go out for a pint or something to eat..

 Yeah I'm kind of getting tired of cooking and eating at home all the time too, it would be nice to go out to a restaurant to eat for a change. And with all the shut downs the nearest take out pizza for me is over 100 km away now. But today I had a craving for one so bad I damn near made the trip! Sure hope this doesn't last too much longer
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 18, 2020, 09:21:28 PM

Here is an excellent reason why it's important for government to lock us down before things get out of control exponentially....

As of April 15, Italy has 120 doctors dead from coronavirus. Article below does not include other medical personnel. Ten percent of the infected in the country are doctors, said Italy’s National Federation of Doctors Guilds FNOMCEO. That means there are over 17,000 doctors in Italy infected as of today. It's safe to assume, tens of thousands of Italian medical workers are out of the battle and when there is less medical personnel, the chance of patients to die increases.

http://report.az/en/other-countries/italy-loses-120-doctors/

Many of us may go back to work soon but there is a good chance we will be told to stay home again whenever there is a spike in infections where we live.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 18, 2020, 09:22:28 PM
Although the coronavirus most closely related to SARS-COV-19 is in a horseshoe bat over a 1000 miles away from Wuhan, I finally found that bat coronavirus in Wuhan. But it wasn't found in a wet market. In the article below, a scientist says Wuhan's level 4 virology lab houses the virus most closely related to SARS-COV-19. This supports my theory that SARS-COV-19 escaped from a lab and  it was genetically altered or was helped in it's evolution to becoming something more dangerous that can effectively infect humans since most coronaviruses can't infect humans. This article is a good read. Pass it along and get people educated. If I were Trump, I'd ask WHO and China for all the documents on that horseshoe bat virus housed in the level 4 lab and if refused or we see years worth of missing work related documents, I think we know what happened.

The Wuhan lab does work with the closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2, which is a bat coronavirus called RaTG13, evolutionary virologist Edward Holmes, of the Charles Perkins Center and the Marie Bashir Institute for Infectious Diseases and Biosecurity at the University of Sydney, said in a statement from the Australian Media Center. But, he added, "the level of genome sequence divergence between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 is equivalent to an average of 50 years (and at least 20 years) of evolutionary change." (That means that in the wild, it would take about 50 years for these viruses to evolve to be as different as they are.)

Though no scientists have come forth with even a speck of evidence that humans knowingly manipulated a virus using some sort of genetic engineering, a researcher at Flinders University in South Australia lays out another scenario that involves human intervention. Bat coronaviruses can be cultured in lab dishes with cells that have the human ACE2 receptor; over time, the virus will gain adaptations that let it efficiently bind to those receptors. Along the way, that virus would pick up random genetic mutations that pop up but don't do anything noticeable, said Nikolai Petrovsky, in the College of Medicine and Public Health at Flinders.

"The result of these experiments is a virus that is highly virulent in humans but is sufficiently different that it no longer resembles the original bat virus," Petrovsky said in a statement from the Australian Media Center. "Because the mutations are acquired randomly by selection, there is no signature of a human gene jockey, but this is clearly a virus still created by human intervention."

http://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-complicated-origins.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 18, 2020, 10:56:13 PM
What Trumps opening of the economy is missing. No date for international air travel, No date for sport or large events, no date for night clubs and dancing, and No date for schools. Everything opens with different rules to protect customers and workers. There going to be a lot of cost business is going to have to reopen and a big part of the economy may not  reopen anytime soon. A lot of cost of on going testing and closing hot spots. Malls may have been dealt a death blow. Vaccines are likely to have limited life and need to be up dated and still only have limited effectiveness. I do not think the USA economy is going to return to what it was soon.

The USA GDP is falling off a cliff. Some of the people here have been wanting the life style in the USA to be reduced. You maybe getting your wish.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 12:24:04 AM
Quote
The interview followed a This Morning investigation which claimed 250,000 women were being offered free or discounted rent in exchange for sexual favours in the UK.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/landlord-sex-for-rent-this-morning-law-prostitution-a8309496.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/02/sex-for-rent-accommodation-rogue-landlords-campaign

I knew it would end up this way.   (:)  The old sugar daddy/sugar baby arrangement comes out again.   :evilgrin0002: :P

I don’t see anything wrong with that if the women agree. It’s simply a transaction, an exchange of value.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 19, 2020, 01:37:16 AM
What Trumps opening of the economy is missing. No date for international air travel, No date for sport or large events, no date for night clubs and dancing, and No date for schools. Everything opens with different rules to protect customers and workers. There going to be a lot of cost business is going to have to reopen and a big part of the economy may not  reopen anytime soon. A lot of cost of on going testing and closing hot spots. Malls may have been dealt a death blow. Vaccines are likely to have limited life and need to be up dated and still only have limited effectiveness. I do not think the USA economy is going to return to what it was soon.

The USA GDP is falling off a cliff. Some of the people here have been wanting the life style in the USA to be reduced. You maybe getting your wish.

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.04/l/5e9b48c185f5407a50424d3d.JPG)

‘Fire Fauci, let us work’: No social distancing as Alex Jones joins hundreds in rally against Covid-19 lockdown measures in Texas] (https://www.rt.com/usa/486227-alex-jones-coronavirus-austin-protest/)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 19, 2020, 05:55:34 AM
Just read this article:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/boris-johnson-skipped-five-cobra-meetings-coronavirus-crisis-loomed-12576899/

The UK PM didn't even do anything until it was too late..busy shaking people's hands and then he got the virus.  Do the Brits here actually like how he's running the country? or is he seen as inept.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 06:04:25 AM
Do the Brits here actually like how he's running the country? or is he seen as inept.

He is doing a great job. Why our cases are falling.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 06:05:11 AM
Interesting read and some conclusive evidence. Whether you believe the facts stated or not, and I tend to go along with much if not all of this BTW, it surely is food for thought. #13 supports a previous claim in an article I posted a few days ago. #20 for the "conspiracy theorists".

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

P.S. don't just stop at #20 :).

Excellent resource.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 19, 2020, 06:10:45 AM
looks like all that piss taking over the years everyone will be eating like this for a few months when visiting the local restaurant... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 19, 2020, 06:34:46 AM
Do the Brits here actually like how he's running the country? or is he seen as inept.

He is doing a great job. Why our cases are falling.


He tried the herd immunity yactic and f'ck know how many folks lost loved one's while our govt 'experimented' and told us the risk was low...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 19, 2020, 07:22:38 AM
And some facts for some perspective:.

A total of 1.5 million people died from TB in 2018 (including 251 000 people with HIV). Worldwide, TB is one of the top 10 causes of death and the leading cause from a single infectious agent (above HIV/AIDS).

An estimated 10 million people fell ill with tuberculosis(TB) worldwide in 2018. 5.7 million men, 3.2 million women and 1.1 million children. 250,00 children died from TB in 2018 alone.

I haven't seen Confederate post lately, but count me a one who believes this coronavirus lockdown is a crock.

Sure, it' serious, but it isn't lockdown serious as far as I'm concerned.

I've waited for some time to post on this as information we have now is much more conclusive than even a month ago. This is with regards to transmission from surfaces to people, people to people and treatment available among other things.


This virus is being combatted with one of the heaviest tools we have in our arsenal. A tool that costs every country billions. Lockdown! yet it is still spreading fast and the deathtoll is still exponential-scaled on a global level and not linear which is more benign.

In just 2 weeks , the USA skyrocketted from a few 100s of deaths to the number 1 deathtoll worldwide in absolute numbers.

That tells us something. And the death-toll isn't even the only problem we're facing. Many people require life-long healthcare even if they survive the virus.

No, this is nowhere near a flu or even TB. This is becoming something like that flu during world-war-1 but that one wasn't combatted as heavily as Covid19.

I hope the buck stops here and TB will have more victims worldwide in a year, but i rather doubt it so far.

Cause right now , covid already has more than 20% of TB victims world wide and is showing no signs of slowing down yet.
The death toll of Covid is also staggering and also still not slowing down on a global level.
This is nonsense, almost mobeyesque in actual facts.

Prof Knut Wittkowski is German-American researcher and professor of epidemiology. He worked for 15 on the Epidemiology of HIV before heading for 20 years the Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design at The Rockefeller University, New York.

What he says:
With all respiratory diseases, the only thing that stops the disease is herd immunity. About 80% of the people need to have had contact with the virus, and the majority of them won’t even have recognized that they were infected, or they had very, very mild symptoms, especially if they are children. So, it’s very important to keep the schools open and kids mingling to spread the virus to get herd immunity as fast as possible.
[…]
We are experiencing all sorts of counterproductive consequences of not well-thought-through policy
[…]
I have been an epidemiologist for 35 years, and I have been modeling epidemics for 35 years. It’s a pleasure to have the ability to help people to understand, but it’s a struggle to get heard. Gee, I wonder why?

I thought this video was very informative and interesting. He'll debunk most if not all of what you posted.

Listen to what Knut says when asked why his info is different from what Fascist Fausi says, hilariously true.


Anyone can get more info from this site. Another good read.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/17/8-more-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/


Watch this video explaining real time testing and how it influences stats from Dr Claus Köhnlein is a German Internist based in Kiel and co-author of the book Virus Mania

Not a valid vimeo URL
what he says if you don't want to watch: [The coronavirus test] is a PCA-based test, where false positives are programmed in.

Half of [the positive tests] could be wrong. PCA tests often show false positives. You can ask professor Gigerenzer in Berlin about this problem area. The tests are very sensitive. If you have only one molecule of something, the test can show positive. That doesn’t mean the patient is sick, or that he has the coronavirus; it doesn’t get isolated, but one relies wholly on these tests.

At the moment one can’t say how high the mortality rate really is, we need significantly more testing and significantly more sick or deceased people. It is too soon.

But the spreading panic is in large parts founded on news from Italy. And nowadays one doesn’t know how much of it is fake news. I have seen Italian doctors online, where I have compelling suspicions something isn’t right with what they say.

I am a clinician and I don’t see a new disease on the horizon. If you took away the test, life would go on as before, there wouldn’t be anything to see.


Another well-reasoned response.

I'm all for dialog. Dialog that is informative and/or contrary, not gov funded nonsense like Dr Fauci or MSM. Please spare the hearsay or twisted facts to a narrative.

I have kept an open mind up to this point, but that is starting to shift to "real" science, real numbers and I'm heavily leaning to this being a farce.

Your numbers are wack and smell of hysteria and fear.

We've been duped so far, no doubt in this poster's mind.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 19, 2020, 07:24:29 AM
Interesting read and some conclusive evidence. Whether you believe the facts stated or not, and I tend to go along with much if not all of this BTW, it surely is food for thought. #13 supports a previous claim in an article I posted a few days ago. #20 for the "conspiracy theorists".

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

P.S. don't just stop at #20 :).

Excellent resource.
I had only read about 25% up till yesterday, and about another 25%  today. Couldn't agree more. One of the best
i've seen anywhere IMO.

The more you delve the more interesting things appear. updated daily also.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 19, 2020, 07:56:38 AM
[This off topic post did not meet our community standards]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 19, 2020, 08:01:06 AM


We've been duped so far, no doubt in this poster's mind.

Take your tin helmet off.

The UK / US tried the 'herd immunity' tactic - like that 'worked' ...   

In the REAL world hospitals were / are overrun and staff risk their lives while the conspiracy theorists and 'let us get back to work' post tosh from scientists holed up and isolating
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 10:43:18 AM
I'm not aware hospitals are or have been over run in this country. Boris's policies have prevented that.

I know a ward sister at Manchester Royal Infirmary. When I last spoke to her she said there were four wards for it, space was tight but there was no panic. She was more concerned that suitable masks were not being given to staff not in direct contact with Covid patients. I furnished her with some masks.

The overflow hospital at the old Gmex isnt in use same as the Nightingale one in London. This simply isn't as bad as we were led to believe. When you subtract the old folk, those with underlying conditions and the asymptomatic, very very few remain.

Boris is going for slow controlled herd immunity so as not to overwhelm the NHS. That isnt what they call it, but it's what it is.

In three weeks or so, maybe five, they'll start relaxing the rules. More businesses will open.

If you read Danchik's link (helpfully linked at the top of the site), that looks more like what I am actually seeing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 11:06:24 AM
What Trumps opening of the economy is missing. No date for international air travel, No date for sport or large events, no date for night clubs and dancing, and No date for schools.


There's no date for men either. Trump needs to provide a date for men!


Just read this article:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/boris-johnson-skipped-five-cobra-meetings-coronavirus-crisis-loomed-12576899/

The UK PM didn't even do anything until it was too late..busy shaking people's hands and then he got the virus.  Do the Brits here actually like how he's running the country? or is he seen as inept.

Everybody has an opinion including the journalist that wrote the article. We are just learning how this virus behaves and how our leaders act will get people killed but less damage to the economy or people saved with great damage to our economy. It will be a balancing act. There will be deaths and there will be damage to the economy but what is the sweet spot?

Is it wise for a nation to shut down 100% of the economy when the first case shows up in the country? No. It's also not wise to do nothing.

Over half of Americans do not get a vaccine shot to prevent the flu. Nations allow the flu to run wild every year among most of their populations without taking action. We can not allow COVID-19 to run wild as it spreads faster and does more damage than the flu.  In 2+ months, nations will have a few dozen dead. With exponential growth, they will have tens of thousands dead the next month. Then the next month they will have hundreds of thousands dead and then they'll be heading into the millions dead, depending on how large their population is. The virus killing a few dozen or a few hundred a month isn't a big deal. Governments need to decide how much of the economy needs to be shut down and how much freedoms to take away from people so deaths aren't tens of thousand per month.


The bad news is Singapore's second outbreak is much worse than their first as infections skyrocket. But I did see some good news on Worldometers.com. China reported zero deaths and only 27 new infections yesterday. Maybe Trump can call President Xi for advice on how to get those kinds of numbers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 19, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
I'm not aware hospitals are or have been over run in this country. Boris's policies have prevented that.

1/ Boris' policy clearly failed .. he caught the flippin' virus, himself

2/ You're being 'selective' , again ..

Manchester was not London

https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/hospitals-critical-care-unit-overwhelmed-by-coronavirus-patients/7027189.article

3/ I have a retired surgeon as a biz partner and and he is back on as a 'practising doctor'  on the special register.  HE has not been called up as he covers an area in the sticks. London had reached the stage where shortage of staff / kit meant folks died needlessly

IF you doubt me, now... Wait til this all dies down ..  The  govt lied .. they KNEW we were ill-prepared for this ... you read the Sundays ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 19, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Do the Brits here actually like how he's running the country? or is he seen as inept.

He is doing a great job. Why our cases are falling.

I have friends in London who say otherwise  :chuckle:  the UK wasn't prepared and there's still plenty of people using the tube as if nothing is different.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 19, 2020, 11:36:35 AM
Just read this article:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/18/boris-johnson-skipped-five-cobra-meetings-coronavirus-crisis-loomed-12576899/

The UK PM didn't even do anything until it was too late..busy shaking people's hands and then he got the virus.  Do the Brits here actually like how he's running the country? or is he seen as inept.


His timing is very precise.  I was extremely excited when he was very busy visiting hospitals, medical workers, etc.

When I heard that he was admitted to ICU, I felt so relaxed.  ChiNazi Hwawei has finally lost all the UK market.

Cheers!  ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 19, 2020, 11:44:04 AM
This virus is being combatted with one of the heaviest tools we have in our arsenal. A tool that costs every country billions. Lockdown! yet it is still spreading fast and the deathtoll is still exponential-scaled on a global level and not linear which is more benign.

In just 2 weeks , the USA skyrocketted from a few 100s of deaths to the number 1 deathtoll worldwide in absolute numbers.

That tells us something. And the death-toll isn't even the only problem we're facing. Many people require life-long healthcare even if they survive the virus.

No, this is nowhere near a flu or even TB. This is becoming something like that flu during world-war-1 but that one wasn't combatted as heavily as Covid19.

I hope the buck stops here and TB will have more victims worldwide in a year, but i rather doubt it so far.

Cause right now , covid already has more than 20% of TB victims world wide and is showing no signs of slowing down yet.
The death toll of Covid is also staggering and also still not slowing down on a global level.


I have already told you that casualty rate of SARS is about 10%.

In late January, I told my friends, "If we have had no science or medical technology today, this plague could have become one of the most lethal plagues in human history, similar to the ancient Roman Smallpox plague.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 19, 2020, 12:27:04 PM
Speaking of failures to react .. in fact deliberate actions to UNDO the potential to react ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 19, 2020, 12:43:22 PM
casualty rate of SARS is about 10%.


If you remove China's reported data on SARS, the Worldwide total minus China case fatality rate is over 16%. China's reporting brought it way down. SARS-COV-2 will have a low number too because of China and similar nations will be severely under reporting how bad it is to give their citizens the impression the government is taking care of them compared to governments in Europe and North America.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 12:48:40 PM
Manchester was not London

I have friends in London who say otherwise  :chuckle:  the UK wasn't prepared and there's still plenty of people using the tube as if nothing is different.

1) Nobody outside of London cares about London. It's not representative of the UK in any way.

2) London is overcrowded and over run with third world immigrants who dont really get hygiene. Of *course* it will be worse there.

3) See number 1.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 19, 2020, 03:38:51 PM
Manchester was not London

I have friends in London who say otherwise  :chuckle:  the UK wasn't prepared and there's still plenty of people using the tube as if nothing is different.

1) Nobody outside of London cares about London. It's not representative of the UK in any way.

2) London is overcrowded and over run with third world immigrants who dont really get hygiene. Of *course* it will be worse there.

3) See number 1.

Sounds like New York.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 19, 2020, 04:14:20 PM
This just letting the virus do its thing and everyone gets immune does not work. The French did this on an Aircraft carrier. Everyone was young and healthy so what would the problem be. They do not do any special when the flu breaks out. The carrier had to return to base and end mission early with a whole lot of finger pointing and blaming. Apparently even young and strong people have enough problem that the ship could not function.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-an-invisible-foe-slipped-aboard-a-french-navy-ship/ar-BB12Sjam?ocid=spartandhp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 19, 2020, 04:27:46 PM
Manchester was not London

I have friends in London who say otherwise  :chuckle:  the UK wasn't prepared and there's still plenty of people using the tube as if nothing is different.

1) Nobody outside of London cares about London. It's not representative of the UK in any way.

2) London is overcrowded and over run with third world immigrants who dont really get hygiene. Of *course* it will be worse there.

3) See number 1.

Sounds like New York.

While New York City has MANY things that I disdain, the inhabitants are human (mostly). The people there and in London, Moscow and yes even Paris deserve assistance and the full efforts of there governments to find a way forward.

There is only one planet Earth so finding solutions and helping those who ask is a priority. On the other hand if you will not even do the most basic things to mitigate the spread of the virus. Than it would be of little concern to me if you find yourself adrift in an ocean without a paddle.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
On the other hand if you will not even do the most basic things to mitigate the spread of the virus. Than it would be of little concern to me if you find yourself adrift in an ocean without a paddle.

You are describing London. And much of Birmingham. Places with high immigration, overcrowding and thus many unhygienic types are going to be harder hit. It is what it is.

I really don’t think the government is too bothered if the virus reduces the population of London by 300k, nobody would notice and most of them vote Labour anyway. You’re not going to change the culture of Third World immigrants in a few weeks and have them start social distancing or behaving like civilised people. Not going to happen. They’ll all still be filling the mosques to the gunwales and taking the tube to their piri piri chicken shop.

And about the nursing homes the virus is ravaging through. These are people at the final stages of their life already. Many of them are dying from associated pre-existing illnesses while they have the virus, not because of the virus per se. But they are writing COVID-19 on the death certificate without testing. The virus may be only bringing forward the inevitable by several months in many cases. It is difficult to see what can be done when there are so many old people in close proximity to each other in an environment that is kept at about 30°C. And I don’t think the government are losing too much sleep about the nursing homes. It will save them a fortune in pensions and care.

The government of course will never say that, but I think that is the reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 19, 2020, 05:06:35 PM
Having Covid-19 running amok on an aircraft carrier is a tad different to the pretty sensible advice for normal situations: isolate yourself in your home until 7 days after the symptoms abate. If the symptoms become hard to deal with contact the health service for further treatment and possible hospitalisation.

Not really possible to follow that advice on a carrier where everybody has a job to do and everyone lives in each others' pockets.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 19, 2020, 05:25:43 PM
This just letting the virus do its thing and everyone gets immune does not work.

Well it does. In the 70s parents used to have measles parties so all the kids would catch it. Herd immunity is very much a thing.

From the previously referenced link by Danchik:

Quote
Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 19, 2020, 07:12:50 PM


 Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries.
[/size]


Japan, South Korea, and Sweden are countries without large numbers of poor immigrates that will not practice hygiene. In Both South Korea and japan they both have aggressive fight against the virus campaigns. Their population will follow rules without a lock down. New York and London's population will not. The death rates are too high if you do not take measures and take into account the cultural of the population. If people would follow rules we would not have to lock down and we would not have hospital rate that will over run the health care system.

An aircraft carrier is just like any other city. It has everything on it to stay in service. Just like any city the health care system get over run to the point that it can not function if no steps are taken to control the virus.

We may have a meat shortage in the USA. This is caused by meat packing plants not protecting workers and the virus getting out of control. After too many people get sick the plant has to be shut down. Now we have so many meat packing plants closed we may run short of meat. Even young workers get too sick to continue to work. When the plants re open we have to have safety guidelines, mask for workers and space them some distant apart to control the virus in the plant. 

The trouble with a lockdown it does not change much other than you go back to having less cases like you maybe two weeks before the lockdown. Strong measure have to take place in order to control the virus while we work, shop and play. The only thing good that comes from the lock down is those people who will not follow rules get it anyway and become more resistant to getting it again. When we come out of the lock down there is an immunity in the part of the population that will not do anything hygiene wise to protect themselves. If most of the other people will follow rules we will slowly get it at an rate the healthcare community can keep up. Like in Japan and South Korea where most of the population will follow the rules then they do not need it. Still they have to take strong measures to control the virus in the way they live.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 19, 2020, 07:54:34 PM
. . . Sweden are countries without large numbers of poor immigrates that will not practice hygiene. . .

Not really certain about South Korea and Japan, but Sweden has a large perhaps 10% population of poorly integrated immigrates from primarily Muslim countries. As far as I have observed they like in The Netherlands refuse to integrate.

It is one thing to respect your ancestry and another thing to say to your hosts go fock off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 19, 2020, 11:06:02 PM
Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries.


Your mistake was thinking Danchik's 'source' was valid

1/ Japan tried and FAILED the non lockdown approach ..it's numbers are going up drastically..  Japan doctors warn of health system 'break down' as cases surge https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52336388

2/ Sweden's death rate is FAR outstripping all it's neighbours - esp. in nursing homes - causing for the govt to give up it's approach

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy
 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy)


3/ S.Korea has managed to bring the outbreak under control through:
a) social distancing measures and
b)been a model of test, test and TEST again  and meticulous contact tracing.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 19, 2020, 11:32:25 PM
Sweden has a large perhaps 10% population of poorly integrated immigrates from primarily Muslim countries. As far as I have observed they like in The Netherlands refuse to integrate.

It is one thing to respect your ancestry and another thing to say to your hosts go fock off.[/size][/font]

This always makes me smile, when I read 'immigrants do not integrate'

Then I lived in Cyprus and heard the same about the Brits who lived in areas of Paphos that were nearly exclusively non Cypriot .....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 20, 2020, 12:51:53 AM
Sweden has a large perhaps 10% population of poorly integrated immigrates from primarily Muslim countries. As far as I have observed they like in The Netherlands refuse to integrate.

It is one thing to respect your ancestry and another thing to say to your hosts go fock off.[/size][/font]

This always makes me smile, when I read 'immigrants do not integrate'


Course it does.  :-\

We all know you'd like to import another few million, build more mosques and pretend not to see them raping the kids. This isn't the topic for your leftist pro-Muslim immigrant nonsense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 20, 2020, 12:56:17 AM
Your mistake was thinking Danchik's 'source' was valid

You query a source while quoting from the Guardian and the BBC. Please......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 20, 2020, 01:04:11 AM
Manchester was not London

I have friends in London who say otherwise  :chuckle:  the UK wasn't prepared and there's still plenty of people using the tube as if nothing is different.

1) Nobody outside of London cares about London. It's not representative of the UK in any way.

2) London is overcrowded and over run with third world immigrants who dont really get hygiene. Of *course* it will be worse there.

3) See number 1.

You mean Brits don't care about their capital and Queen?! they had to ship in Romanian fruit pickers cause Brits couldnt do it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230457/Farm-boss-spent-40k-flying-150-Romanian-fruit-pickers-UK-teach-Brit-land-army-done.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 20, 2020, 01:24:08 AM
Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries.


Your mistake was thinking Danchik's 'source' was valid

1/ Japan tried and FAILED the non lockdown approach ..it's numbers are going up drastically..  Japan doctors warn of health system 'break down' as cases surge https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52336388


worldometers.info/coronavirus.

Japan: 10000 cases and 236 deaths. (On 216 Million people).

Good source, bbc. THey have a hefty outbreak indeed!

Netherlands: 32.000 cases with 3000 dead (on 17 Million people)

USA: 764.000 with 40.000 death (On 300.000.000 people)

So Japan in population compares better to USA but in corona outbreak to western europe.

I'd say they are doing a splendid job containing this thing.

(All numbers from 20-04-2020, as numbers rise quickly).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 20, 2020, 01:59:06 AM
Manchester was not London

I have friends in London who say otherwise  :chuckle:  the UK wasn't prepared and there's still plenty of people using the tube as if nothing is different.

1) Nobody outside of London cares about London. It's not representative of the UK in any way.

2) London is overcrowded and over run with third world immigrants who dont really get hygiene. Of *course* it will be worse there.

3) See number 1.

You mean Brits don't care about their capital and Queen?! they had to ship in Romanian fruit pickers cause Brits couldnt do it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230457/Farm-boss-spent-40k-flying-150-Romanian-fruit-pickers-UK-teach-Brit-land-army-done.html

The queen is hiding out well away from London. And what do Romanian fruit pickers have to do with this? They come annually as locals generally dont want to do that work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 20, 2020, 03:27:17 AM

You query a source while quoting from the Guardian and the BBC. Please......

Hmm,

Was there anything factually incorrect with either content ? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 20, 2020, 03:29:32 AM

I'd say they are doing a splendid job containing this thing.

(All numbers from 20-04-2020, as numbers rise quickly).

'Sure', let's discuss the numbers in a week...  Fact is Japan tried social distancing alone and it hasn't worked .. NOW on lockdown

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 20, 2020, 05:36:22 AM

Japan: 10000 cases and 236 deaths. (On 216 Million people).

Good source, bbc. THey have a hefty outbreak indeed!

So Japan in population compares better to USA but in corona outbreak to western europe.

I'd say they are doing a splendid job containing this thing.


Japan is doing very well but there is a problem brewing. The Japanese people are most likely the worlds best people for following the rules. There control of this virus is an example. The trouble is they had started to become lax and the virus is making a comeback. There numbers are still very good but they are in danger of being where the USA was in February. The government is now calling this an emergency and asking citizens to be more careful and stay home more.

They caught a member of there congress not following the new voluntary rules by going out to a pub that was legally open. He was kicked out of their congress and even kicked out of the party. This is to set an example how shameful it is to not follow the rules to the rest of the population. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 20, 2020, 10:10:59 AM

Japan is doing very well

NO, it's not ... which is the point .. folks quote Japan as a 'shining example' and prove they simply aren't paying attention to the news
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 20, 2020, 11:06:49 AM

You query a source while quoting from the Guardian and the BBC. Please......

Hmm,

Was there anything factually incorrect with either content ?

Was there anything factually incorrect from Dan's link?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 20, 2020, 11:58:21 AM
Sweden has a large perhaps 10% population of poorly integrated immigrates from primarily Muslim countries. As far as I have observed they like in The Netherlands refuse to integrate.

It is one thing to respect your ancestry and another thing to say to your hosts go fock off.[/size][/font]

This always makes me smile, when I read 'immigrants do not integrate'

Then I lived in Cyprus and heard the same about the Brits who lived in areas of Paphos that were nearly exclusively non Cypriot .....


Yes I would expect you to smile.

The reality is though those Brits in Cyprus and say The Dutch, Brits and Germans in the Dordogne are a good example. They accept the local laws and adapt. They use the locals for construction projects and abide by the customs and traditions. They add to the tax base.

If a group of Brits wants to live together, I sort of doubt they would demand imperial measures and driving a vehicle on the right side of the road.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 20, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
This just letting the virus do its thing and everyone gets immune does not work.

Well it does. In the 70s parents used to have measles parties so all the kids would catch it. Herd immunity is very much a thing.

From the previously referenced link by Danchik:

Quote
Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries.

We do not lock down as much as those in Europe, because we divide one another in small personal moving space by wearing surgical grade face mask.

We still work with the least human contact.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 20, 2020, 12:28:58 PM
A very interesting article, I posted its predecessor a few days ago.

This was published in ancient history, April 2nd and is interesting for what it got right (lots) and how things have been going along in the USA and why. Tomas Pueyo has good insights into why the effort to deal with Covid-19 is going as it is.

Having read it, one will have a better understanding of why Trump and his cohorts are accusing China of wrongdoing and why they are wrong in doing so. What is happening in the Land of the Free is down to what you guys did and are doing. There's some interesting comparisons made with other countries. Well worth a read.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-out-of-many-one-36b886af37e9
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 20, 2020, 12:51:00 PM
A very interesting article, I posted its predecessor a few days ago.

This was published in ancient history, April 2nd and is interesting for what it got right (lots) and how things have been going along in the USA and why. Tomas Pueyo has good insights into why the effort to deal with Covid-19 is going as it is.

Having read it, one will have a better understanding of why Trump and his cohorts are accusing China of wrongdoing and why they are wrong in doing so. What is happening in the Land of the Free is down to what you guys did and are doing. There's some interesting comparisons made with other countries. Well worth a read.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-out-of-many-one-36b886af37e9


One must exclude the data of China.  To them, they even do not know the number of Wuhan virus patients.  The district officers dare not provide their data to the central Commies.

From an insider's information (unconfirmed information from ChiNazi), the estimated Wuhan virus casualty in Hubei Province is about 750,000.  Assuming that 10 cities, each with population 10 millions, in Hubei Province suffered from plague, each city's casualty of this plague is about 75,000.

It is comparable to the data of Western free world.


USA's number of patients are very high because they test many patients very fast each day.  Country with minimal medical care, such as ChiNazi, lack test agents.  Even worse, their so called test agents always fail.  See my signature below.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 20, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
Loyalman, go read the link and then get back to us - it'll save you wearing out your fingers and little grey cells!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 20, 2020, 01:39:51 PM
Crimea is becoming insular !

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/20/stop-visiting-crimea-during-coronavirus-outbreak-leader-tells-russians-a70043
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 03:53:55 PM
Having read it, one will have a better understanding of why Trump and his cohorts are accusing China of wrongdoing and why they are wrong in doing so. What is happening in the Land of the Free is down to what you guys did and are doing. There's some interesting comparisons made with other countries. Well worth a read.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-out-of-many-one-36b886af37e9


The author, Thomas, is offering his opinion. Thomas thinks Vietnam is doing a good job fighting the virus. Of course they and all Communist nations are doing a good job! Vietnam, although next to China, has zero deaths and a few hundred infected. Thomas also thinks 33 US States have more cases than Hubei. Seems like Thomas trusts China's numbers too. He's too trusting so his calculations and predictions will be off.

NY, the worst hit city and State in the nation had thousands of beds set up in a ship and Convention center and NY is past their peak and never used all the beds. On the other hand Wuhan had extra hospitals quickly set up and they used all the beds but China wants us to believe a nation with 3 times the population of Europe has many times less infections and deaths than European nations possessing better health care and are dozens of times smaller in population.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 20, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
These Russians were all prepared for the virus apocalypse  ;D

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/332047-zombie-apocalypse-in-russia?fbclid=IwAR3f3AbgvDa0Fw-troMT6CfcI9AUgBEw-U7w200-MbiAlsAclM2SSKihR34

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 20, 2020, 04:58:47 PM
Billy, go read it. Get out your calculator, or ask your mother in law to help you.

Opinions, informed by facts are useful. Opinions devoid of fact are valueless.

To help you with your 'thinking' there are no completely accurate datasets, all are approximations. However, a consistent over or underestimate is still useful because such data shows trends and the whole piece is about trends.

The author was making points based on numbers and maths - the difficult stuff (for some) that happens when you run out of fingers and toes.

Several points were being made, the author used a comparison with Hubei for context, to help even people like you to be able to understand or at least visualise the issues under discussion. If it helps you, go back with your helper and ignore the references to Hubei if that makes you more comfortable. The presentation will not change, the numbers will not change, the models will not change.

Then get back to us with your fact based insights - that'll be fun.

Oh, while you're at it, bearing in mind the publication date, you can now see that what was being talked about as models of the future is now visible in numbers and actions. The piece remains useful of course because it helps us to understand what's going on. We can gain insights as to how we got from there to here.

You can compare the models with what has transpired, see how we have progressed along the trend lines and how things have changed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 09:03:00 PM
Andrew, if you need a guy named Tomas to teach you math today, please don't post it here as some new revelation. I was sounding alarms on this crisis early. Take a look at the date in my signature line. I know how exponential math works. Instead of writing a big article like Tomas, I'll keep it simple for the folks here.. Jan 24, the first coronavirus showed up in Europe. Almost a month later Feb 17 Europe records it's first death. Two months later April 20, Europe has 100,000 deaths. So Europe went from 1 death to 100,000 in two months. We know what exponential growth from 1 to 100,000 looks like. Do we need to see what exponential growth on 100,000 looks like a month or two from now if we did nothing? That' is why we are seeing governments take action to stop exponential growth of infections and deaths. New York, our worst hit area by far, the governor is now willing to send ventilators to any State that needs them. We'll be okay compared to other nations Andrew. Don't need to keep looking for articles validating your beliefs America is on fire.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 20, 2020, 09:19:41 PM

The queen is hiding out well away from London. And what do Romanian fruit pickers have to do with this? They come annually as locals generally dont want to do that work.

It means that there's tons of jobs that local Brits don't or won't do.  Therefore they need to find 3rd world immigrants to come in and do it.

Most of the low end jobs are done by immigrants. even going through Gatwick or Heathrow all the security and baggage guards are non-white. and many of the border guards are also.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 20, 2020, 11:35:51 PM
Billy, you did not read the piece, or did not understand it. Had you done so you'd not have wasted all those words above.

It's OK to not understand, just ask questions. There's plenty of people willing to help.

How do I know that what I wrote above is true?
Had you read, or understood, what you read, you'd know that a central part of the article is not about what government has done in the USA; that the reason why other places have been successful, in comparison to the United States, is that the governments acted centrally, but that the USA very largely has not.

Its not about what the government did, (as you clearly seem to think) but what it didn't do - forcing a piecemeal response at state level, not providing expertise, making states compete for resources and thus play a game of beggar my neighbour.

As a secondary point, you seem to misunderstand, due to your very obvious sensitivity about your adopted country, that, well, it aint all about you.

The discussion in the piece is of much wider applications and interest. But as you didn't read, or could not understand what you read, you missed that.

You're probably a lovely little fellow within your limits and I'd love to encourage you to find ways to extend your boundaries but it can't happen unless you understand where you are starting from and commit to improve.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 20, 2020, 11:57:37 PM

Its not about what the government did, (as you clearly seem to think) but what it didn't do - forcing a piecemeal response at state level, not providing expertise, making states compete for resources and thus play a game of beggar my neighbour.


Good grief Andrew. Every government body in the world was competing for supplies. You think nations can just pull tens of millions of PPE out of their ass? American states are doing fine now. We got so much supplies that Trump has committed sending supplies to other nations including Russia and Italy. Tomas is behind when it comes to World affairs but if you think he's smart, write to Trump and recommend him as an advisor.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on April 21, 2020, 12:05:32 AM
andrew aren't you still in Estonia or Spain? how's the supplies of masks over there?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 21, 2020, 02:39:56 AM


Most of the low end jobs are done by immigrants. even going through Gatwick or Heathrow all the security and baggage guards are non-white. and many of the border guards are also.

That's because they're treated equally ... something some on here don't like
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 21, 2020, 02:53:18 AM
You may remember I mentioned a friend, Anatoly, who couldn't get a flight home from Thailand before Russia stopped all inbound scheduled and charters on 27th March ?

His flight was booked for 5th April and his wife had to have an emergency hysterectomy at the end of March.

He 'got out' on a Russian govt repatriation flight and is now in a 14 day isolation unit in Novosibirsk  .. His wife is still 1000km away !



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 21, 2020, 03:40:17 AM
andrew aren't you still in Estonia or Spain? how's the supplies of masks over there?
Not bad.

You can buy them in Estonian pharmacies in multipacks at a price that would make British eBayers weep.

There's several businesses have sprung up making fashion facewear. I have bought one for myself and sent one to the UK. Delivery on those is a couple of days.

In Spain they are also available in pharmacies. If I remember correctly, you can get some for free with a tax or residency card. I think there are some limitations on who gets the freebies but I don't recall the ins and outs.

In Estonia there is now a push from government to make mask wearing in public places the new social norm. I keep mine hanging from the dashboard of the car so I don't forget it at home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 21, 2020, 06:12:52 AM
Crimea is becoming insular !

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/20/stop-visiting-crimea-during-coronavirus-outbreak-leader-tells-russians-a70043

No surprises there, everything is closed because of Corona and tourism has always been its main source of income.

I suspect the Turkish hotels to take an equal large hit in their Economy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 21, 2020, 08:35:05 AM
Crimea is becoming insular !

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/04/20/stop-visiting-crimea-during-coronavirus-outbreak-leader-tells-russians-a70043

What a silly post from the Russophobic paddy. Put pretty much any country in the world right now, and place it before ‘is becoming insular’, and its true.

Only Moby can twist a coved-19 article into his propaganda laden diatribe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 21, 2020, 10:15:39 AM

What a silly post from the Russophobic paddy. Put pretty much any country in the world right now, and place it before ‘is becoming insular’, and its true.

Only Moby can twist a coved-19 article into his propaganda laden diatribe.

I used to object to being called a 'Paddy' on the grounds I was neither called Patrick or Irish ... I guess now, I am a Paddy ..

Now we'll deal with the 'russophobe' bollox ... 

This is a term that the vassal of the Kremlin use to 'belitte' ANYONE that disagrees with their 'policy' ... along with 'unpatriotic' ;)

Given you aren't married to a Russian, don't go there, don't own property there, don't do biz there and demonstrably haven't a clue about what happens there ..  If you used the term - given the current control...using the term 'Kremlinophobic' ..you'd have a point ..

As, I've 'upset' you re 'Russia'..  I'll remind you that NHS workers' 'testing' is a joke in the UK and you'll note the 100k / day testing target got dropped ..  We can discuss the availability of PPE for front-line care-workers and the TOTAL disorganisation, given there's kit about ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 21, 2020, 10:22:59 AM
I just found this.

Now I can be a 'russophobe', 'non Patriotic' for pointing out the UK govt howlers / lies and finally 'upset' our US members..

How to make a useless  face mask  - or a 'cloth face covering' - very careful choice of words ..

https://twitter.com/i/status/1246428235883298816  (https://twitter.com/i/status/1246428235883298816)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 21, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
I used to object to being called a 'Paddy' on the grounds I was neither called Patrick or Irish ... I guess now, I am a Paddy ..

Eh but you told us all that you've got an Irish passport and that you're European or some other made up belonging. Or was that another lie you've told us?

So, you're Irish then and with that, you'll be a Paddy Pensioner....becasue you're Irish and draw a pension.

As, I've 'upset' you re 'Russia'..  I'll remind you that NHS workers' 'testing' is a joke in the UK and you'll note the 100k / day testing target got dropped ..  We can discuss the availability of PPE for front-line care-workers and the TOTAL disorganisation, given there's kit about ..

You said that NHS workers weren't being tested, I proved that they are. I win again. Now you want to rant on about PPE when its clear that every government under the sun has been caught short and people like you cant even question NHS procurement, because it takes the heat off the government. You do know that people are employed in the NHS to manage this sort of stuff and Boris Johnson doesn't sit on eBay buying stuff himself right?

You probably even want to blame the government for all the private care homes, who steal peoples estates whilst they're in care, for not having enough PPE.

Just because you feel the need to twist every debate and deflect from your own stupidity, you try to engage/bait me into a debate about testing targets and other whiny arguments. I have no interest in wasting time with endless tit for tats with silly old men, who can't understand what's written, cant write coherently in his own native language and has a questionable appetite for arguing with strangers online and fudging conversations like a liar.

Jog on PP.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 21, 2020, 07:06:50 PM
How did PM Boris survive the Corona? Was he given a medication which normal NHS patients are denied?

Quote

“The General Medical Council were right to oppose the creation of the NHS. As they foresaw way back in 1948 socialised medicine would lead, inevitably, to decisions being taken by bureaucrats rather than doctors, in the interests of the state rather than the patient. In practice key decisions on NHS strategy in the Covid-19 outbreak have been taken by the Cabinet Office, which controls every aspect of British bureaucracy.

Sending the PM to an NHS hospital looked like a death sentence. On Cabinet Office orders the only drugs known to be effective in combatting Covid-19, Hydroxychloriquine and Remdesivir, have been withheld from NHS patients. At the same time government (in reality, Cabinet Office) policy, to which I am strongly opposed, is to sacrifice frontline NHS staff by withholding information that the virus is airborne. They’ve been going down like ninepins.“


https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/18/how-boris-survived/


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 21, 2020, 07:22:10 PM
Wake up, smell the coffee.

https://www.davidicke.com/article/568360/getting-yet-david-icke-dot-connector-videocast
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ward_Cleaver on April 21, 2020, 09:13:35 PM
The only safe way to manage exit from lockdown in this scenario is to give everybody antibody tests - and that ain't gonna happen!

I'm looking forward to the results of these antibody test.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 21, 2020, 09:23:47 PM
On Cabinet Office orders the only drugs known to be effective in combatting Covid-19, Hydroxychloriquine and Remdesivir, have been withheld from NHS patients.


I think Boris got good care from the best doctors. He said he owes his life to the medical staff. He came close to dying.

There are no known drugs to be effective in combatting COVID-19. There are experimental drugs. There has never been a vaccine or treatment created for any coronavirus. Not SARS, not MERS. It's not going to be easy to find something effective on COVID-19.

Bad news about the miracle drug Hydroxychloriquine

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/21/more-deaths-no-benefit-malaria-drug-va-virus-study.html?utm_source=digg
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 22, 2020, 12:30:00 AM
This is where the USA got so many deaths. A corona tester in the Bronx said that half of all her test come back positive for the corona virus.

New York City, The Bronx,  — know that New Yorkers are not truly all in this together. There are now more coronavirus infections here per capita than in any of the city’s other boroughs, according to health department data.

The Bronx is not just the poorest borough in the city. The 15th District, or NY-15, its chief congressional district, is the poorest in the nation. Of all the unsettling data points to have surfaced during the pandemic, one is front of mind among many of the 1.5 million people who live here: Of New York state’s 62 counties, the Bronx ranks dead last by most every measure.

NY-15 has a median income of $30,483, and the state’s worst rates for asthma, diabetes, hypertension and obesity, putting residents at a disproportionately high risk of death should they develop covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. Even before the crisis, life expectancy here was 75 years old, 10 years lower than that of the most affluent pockets of Brooklyn and Manhattan.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-bronx-long-a-symbol-of-american-poverty-is-now-new-york-city-s-coronavirus-capital/ar-BB130lXL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 22, 2020, 12:37:19 AM


Was there anything factually incorrect from Dan's link?

We are discussing Japan's 'success', for starters
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 12:39:31 AM


EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 22, 2020, 12:42:09 AM


EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.

Or maybe those regions had more international travellers ? ....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 22, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Billy in most countries if the person has not been tested they did not died of the Coronavirus. So if we would just stop testing this problem would solved.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 22, 2020, 02:31:26 AM
2) London is overcrowded and over run with third world immigrants who dont really get hygiene.

If this :king:-Virus has any positive effect at all, then it is teaching people to wash their hands  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 22, 2020, 05:26:45 AM
New waves of Wuhan plague in ChiNazi - Harbin City has been locked down.
22nd April, 2020

Chinese media.  Please use translator like MS Edge Browser -
https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/3141604

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 22, 2020, 05:29:31 AM
Wake up, smell the coffee.

https://www.davidicke.com/article/568360/getting-yet-david-icke-dot-connector-videocast

Yes , OfCom 'woke up' and warned the production company that David Icke is a 'Public Risk to Health'

"Ofcom said ESTV, owner of London-based TV channel London Live, had broken broadcasting rules by airing an interview with former footballer and TV presenter Icke.

It said the interview, recorded on 18 March and broadcast on London Live on 8 April, "included potentially harmful content about the coronavirus pandemic".

While not mentioning 5G by name, Icke referred to an "electro-magnetic, technologically generated soup of radiation toxicity" that he claimed had damaged old people's immune systems.

He also claimed that official health advice aimed at reducing the spread of the virus were being implemented to further the ambitions of a clandestine "cult", rather than to protect public health.

Ofcom said it was "particularly concerned" by Icke "casting doubt on the motives behind official health advice to protect the public from the virus".

"These claims went largely unchallenged during the 80-minute interview and were made without the support of any scientific or other evidence."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52358920 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52358920)



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 08:04:10 AM


EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.

Or maybe those regions had more international travellers ? ....


The North American and European nations I mentioned have around 154,000 deaths. China, with a population of nearly double those nations, have 4632 deaths.  Number of travelers doesn't always equate to infections. All it takes is one person to bring it in a country and spread it around. Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea all border China. They all finished their curve and are at the bottom or they have no curve. They all report zero deaths.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on April 22, 2020, 08:22:40 AM
Anyone have any ideas when this Bast**** is going to get the virus?? Bloody sooner rather than later..

He is out spouting his foul mouth again.. beets me how war criminals are still out on the streets!!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/tony-blair-coronavirus-good-morning-britain-testing-122400646.html


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 22, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
Anyone have any ideas when this Bast**** is going to get the virus?? Bloody sooner rather than later..

He is out spouting his foul mouth again.. beets me how war criminals are still out on the streets!!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/tony-blair-coronavirus-good-morning-britain-testing-122400646.html

Was a matter, Steveboy?

Is nasty Blair asking the 'wrong questions?...


For sure others with a better track record re being honest with the public are asking the same Q's and suggesting the same.

How dare the Sunday Times AND the FT suggest EXACTLY the same as Blair

The point is the govt knew we were ill prepared having run an exercise that suggested lots of things to do.....

Now they are refusing access to the recommendations in the report under free of information rules...


This is going to come out... and heads need to roll
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on April 22, 2020, 10:12:14 AM


EU nations, UK, Canada and America account for around 12% of the world's population but currently have 86% of the coronavirus deaths. Seems like most of the world is under reporting. Or maybe the rest of the world has better leaders, experts, and health care systems to protect the citizens? This is one of those moments we really get to see which nations are more honest than others.

Or maybe those regions had more international travellers ? ....


The North American and European nations I mentioned have around 154,000 deaths. China, with a population of nearly double those nations, have 4632 deaths. Number of travelers doesn't always equate to infections. All it takes is one person to bring it in a country and spread it around. Vietnam, Laos, and North Korea all border China. They all finished their curve and are at the bottom or they have no curve. They all report zero deaths.

 In March we had an incident here at a snowmobile rally/ ride where one infected person infected 20 others. There was about 200 people total there. This was a one day event and the people were exposed by this person only one time during a dinner after the ride was over, for about 2-3 hours at a town hall. This was at a little town in the middle of nowhere and in no time at all 10% of the people there were infected. Like Billy said, all it takes is one person to bring it in and it could spread like wildfire
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on April 22, 2020, 10:53:46 AM
In March we had an incident here at a snowmobile rally/ ride where one infected person infected 20 others. There was about 200 people total there. This was a one day event and the people were exposed by this person only one time during a dinner after the ride was over, for about 2-3 hours at a town hall. This was at a little town in the middle of nowhere and in no time at all 10% of the people there were infected. Like Billy said, all it takes is one person to bring it in and it could spread like wildfire


This is called Super Spreader.  One person can infect more than 10 persons very easily.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 22, 2020, 12:56:47 PM

Guayaquil mayor thinks her city has 8000 COVID-19 deaths since the death toll is that much higher than normal for this period. Her nation, Ecuador, currently reports 520 deaths for the entire nation. Many nations are underreporting.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/like-the-horror-of-war-mayor-of-virus-ravaged-ecuador-city-calls-for-drastic-response/ar-BB132aiN?ocid=spartanntp

Underdeveloped nations like hers are going to take a beating so bad that it will make NY and Italy look like paradise.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 22, 2020, 01:29:01 PM
Anyone have any ideas when this Bast**** is going to get the virus?? Bloody sooner rather than later..

He is out spouting his foul mouth again.. beets me how war criminals are still out on the streets!!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/tony-blair-coronavirus-good-morning-britain-testing-122400646.html

Was a matter, Steveboy?

Is nasty Blair asking the 'wrong questions?...


For sure others with a better track record re being honest with the public are asking the same Q's and suggesting the same.

How dare the Sunday Times AND the FT suggest EXACTLY the same as Blair

The point is the govt knew we were ill prepared having run an exercise that suggested lots of things to do.....

Now they are refusing access to the recommendations in the report under free of information rules...


This is going to come out... and heads need to roll

No. The point is, after what that vile little excuse for a human did, during his tenure as PM, he’s in no position to judge anyone....like ever. He’s trying to stay relevant when he should be breaking rocks in hard LABOUR for the rest of his pathetic life.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 22, 2020, 03:02:50 PM

No. The point is, after what that vile little excuse for a human did, during his tenure as PM, he’s in no position to judge anyone....like ever. He’s trying to stay relevant when he should be breaking rocks in hard LABOUR for the rest of his pathetic life.

'No', as in Rosco doesn't like Blair and hopes the Sunday Times and FT proving that  this and the last Tory Govt have been incompetent and ignored warnings as to what would happen if there was a pandemic and things that needed to be done ....  and you're upset because Blair mentions it, too ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 22, 2020, 03:19:00 PM
The democrats here complain the Trump was un prepared for the virus. It is not all with out facts we could of done better had we started sooner. But now lets take a look at what the democrats were doing at this time. The were involved in impeaching Trump. Then they want to extended the trial for maybe months to have lots of witnesses. Then when that did not work they wanted to start new investigations and try to impeach him a second time. All this was a distraction from the virus. Not one of them said anything about getting ready for a pandemic. Oh Yes, I did forget, Biden called Trump's of not letting Chinese visit the USA on January 31 racist. Hindsight is 20/20 or Monday morning quarterback always calls the right plays. In reality none of them believed that the virus was going to be that bad that it needed to be prepared for. With the exception of a few Asian countries this seemed to happened just about everywhere.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on April 22, 2020, 03:59:39 PM
Netherlands is easing up a little. Preschool will restart soon together with dentists.

Sportsclubs for preeschoolers are also allowed to reopen but no competition against other clubs. Practice only
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 22, 2020, 05:27:15 PM
That is good news. I am hoping that May will be a month that many things will be opening up around much of the world.  I hope we can be more ready for the next wave and be able to control it without as large scale of a shut down.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 23, 2020, 03:27:42 AM

No. The point is, after what that vile little excuse for a human did, during his tenure as PM, he’s in no position to judge anyone....like ever. He’s trying to stay relevant when he should be breaking rocks in hard LABOUR for the rest of his pathetic life.

'No', as in Rosco doesn't like Blair and hopes the Sunday Times and FT proving that  this and the last Tory Govt have been incompetent and ignored warnings as to what would happen if there was a pandemic and things that needed to be done ....  and you're upset because Blair mentions it, too ?

So now you’re sticking up for Blair because he holds a candle to your cause? You’re worse than I thought. You’d back Hitler if he spoke out against Brexit.

Tell me then Moby, what were your lefty government mates doing whilst the current leaders were seemingly dropping the ball? You blame them directly but I recall Labour, Libtards & SNP were fully focused on destroying democracy, stopping Brexit and trying to get another Scottish Independence vote. Why didn’t the opposition bring up their current concerns last year? Oh yea.....because nobody saw this coming.....not even you Mystic.

You can’t have it both ways although you always do. You lot seem to believe the following;

The NHS budgets been cut.
The global pandemic is a race issue.
Global shortages of medical supplies are the governments fault.
You aren’t aware that the NHS buys their own PPE.
Boris was faking his illness.
It’s racist to say China started it.
You’ve got an inexplicable support for PPE scheme which doesn’t actually deliver PPE.
Pretending you haven’t spent the last 4 years wishing old people dead because of Brexit.
People helping other people proves the public services are underfunded.
Claims the majority of NHS are immigrants for some reason.
Ignores the fact WHO downplayed the virus from the beginning.

You’re a silly old argumentative man with warped views about everything. Jog on!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 23, 2020, 04:29:18 AM
Good morning, Rosco !

Are the FT and Sunday Times 'lefty' journals ?

Perhaps you could  make your 'response' about the UK govt and their 'policy' - as described in said journals...  not me, or Blair ?  :coffeeread:




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 24, 2020, 08:32:46 AM
IMO, our lovely healthcare authorities haven't even learned a decent "digits faking" from Churov (with his famous 146%) or any other specialist in election results faking  :GRRRR:

Look an the numbers of tested:

- April 12: 1.200.000 (haven't kept a print-screen...)
- April 13: 1.300.000 (Haven't kept a print-screen...)
- April 14: 1.400.000 (print-screen attached)
- April 22: 2.250.000 (print-screen attached)
- April 24: 2.550.000 (print-screen attached)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 24, 2020, 08:53:40 AM

Russia lists nice even rounds their numbers up by the thousands. Of course it's not true. Earlier I supplied a video of an army of ambulances in line waiting to get to the hospital but deaths in Russia are very low. 4 out of a million people in Russia died from the Coronavirus. Over 500 people in Belgium have died from the Coronavirus. Do Russians have better immunity systems like Chinese do?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 24, 2020, 09:21:57 AM
Olga the numbers posted are interesting. Whether the Russians are under reporting the actual number it is still mournful for those who have lost family and friends.

Bear in mind I suspect the Chinese gift is mostly concentrated in Moscow, I understand and when looks at that regions population the number the reported statistics seems plausible. But do not reflect the reality is the virus like a rock thrown into pond with the resulting disturbance will spread outward.

In my mind the Chinese are just outright lying with the numbers they are reporting. I always have had strong misgivings for the leaders and my contempt has only grown.  :censored:  them!

One interesting statistic is Norway, Taiwan, New Zealand and Germany all have rather low numbers of deaths and infections. There is one commonality I can find, they are lead by women.

 :saint: :knit:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 24, 2020, 09:48:59 AM
One interesting statistic is Norway, Taiwan, New Zealand and Germany all have rather low numbers of deaths and infections. There is one commonality I can find, they are lead by women.

Haven't checked Norway, Taiwan and New Zealand cases - but as far as Germany is concerned, I would rather think that the lower fatality rate (comparing to Italy, Spain, France) is due to five facts at least:
- more hospital beds per 1000;
- better functioning healthcare system (thanks to a traditional German bureaucracy!). Though Germans keep complaining "unsere Regierung hat auf Krankenversicherung bis zum Tod gespart", u.s.w.
- Germans are slightly more clean / hygienic than their Western and Southern neighbours;
- Germans are not such a "touchy / feely" nation as Italians or Spaniards. They do have a pretty good idea about personal space and "Abstand frei halten".
 :biggrin:
- Germans are pretty low-abiding.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 24, 2020, 10:15:10 AM

Lot's of young German got infected after coming back from skiing trips in Switzerland, next door to Italy. They did a good job keeping the older population from getting infected. Taiwan place travel restrictions on China in December. They smelled Chinese BS early and took action early.

But if you want to talk about nations that did a good job, North Korea, Laos, and Vietnam all border China, all have Communist governments, and all report zero deaths! They must have smart leaders protecting the people and have wonderful health care systems! They put Germany to shame.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 24, 2020, 10:24:05 AM

After criticizing China for its handling of the crisis, Chinese journalist shows back up after being detained for 2 months. He said "God bless China". Reeducation camps do work! The other journalists and doctors will probably reappear after they graduate too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chinese-citizen-journalist-missing-for-2-months-after-reporting-on-coronavirus-in-wuhan-reappears/ar-BB135bvH?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 24, 2020, 10:47:00 AM

Lot's of young German got infected after coming back from skiing trips in Switzerland, next door to Italy. They did a good job keeping the older population from getting infected. Taiwan place travel restrictions on China in December. They smelled Chinese BS early and took action early.


Most German's and in particular those younger than 35 would avoid Switzerland to ski. They prefer Austria and Italy. Austria has a better apres ski scene and like Italy is not so crazy expensive.

When my daughter working earlier this year and last year in München the company preferred Austria or yet again Italy. Switzerland was not even mentioned, except as an obstacle to Italy. They went to Austria, Aarlberg Region.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 24, 2020, 11:00:22 AM
Most German's and in particular those younger than 35 would avoid Switzerland to ski. They prefer Austria and Italy. Austria has a better apres ski scene and like Italy is not so crazy expensive.

When my daughter working earlier this year and last year in München the company preferred Austria or yet again Italy. Switzerland was not even mentioned, except as an obstacle to Italy. They went to Austria, Aarlberg Region.[/size][/font]

Sure, Austria is a more popular skiing destination for Bayern that Switzerland - with Kitzbühel being described to Russians as "Rublevka for Bayern München and all the local high society".

Going to Switzerland would be unproductive, because the Germans would surely want for holidays a) something cheaper than Germany and b) something more easy-going. Thus the only fun available for Germans in Switzerland would be, most likely, only listening to "schwiizerdütsch"  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 24, 2020, 11:01:41 AM
Lot's of young German got infected after coming back from skiing trips in Switzerland, next door to Italy.

Wasn't it Südtirol rather that Swittzerland?  ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 24, 2020, 12:12:51 PM
Thus the only fun available for Germans in Switzerland would be, most likely, only listening to "schwiizerdütsch"  :ROFL:

 :thumbsup:      :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 24, 2020, 12:19:09 PM
The video Billy thought he saw was actually a queue of ambulances awaiting disinfection.

Don't worry though, it is easier to believe the things that fit with one's prejudices. Doing so saves a lot of thought, requires no curiosity and absolutely no need to find out for oneself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 24, 2020, 12:20:06 PM
:thumbsup:      :ROFL:

Nur zum lachen:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 24, 2020, 12:25:20 PM
The video Billy thought he saw was actually a queue of ambulances awaiting disinfection.

Amdrew, would you please explain than why:
a) all the ambulances from different "подстанция" are queing for desinfections in front of the same hospital, rather than returning to their "stations" where they normally should be desinfected?
b) why they are having blue lights on - that should be turned on only while "on duty" (driving to a call, or carrying a patient inside)?

1

2

3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 24, 2020, 12:52:44 PM
Olga, there was a video circulating widely on English language media the other day which given its circulation was very likely what Billy saw and that video WAS ambulances being disinfected. And no, there were no flashing lights. From recollection, it was taken from a high-ish vantage point at night time.

It is likely that there would be some queueing at some times given the number of cases being hospitalised.

From what I have seen, the testing in Russia is showing up a large number of asymptomatic cases but the folks with symptoms, unlike the UK/USA etc, are not staying at home but being hospitalised. So there's a lot of people in hospital who would be sitting at home elsewhere. I had seen an estimate of the hospitalisation rate and it is huge, but as is so often the case, I can't easily turn it up again. (and I am not going to look for it again.)

The point being that Moscow is not turning into the charnel house that western media is fond of portraying.

Here's a link to an article on the topic: https://www.rbc.ru/society/11/04/2020/5e91d8e29a79474d1e49515a?fromtg=1

Embedded in the article is a video showing a purported queue of people awaiting admission. There's also a picture which quite clearly shows a load of ambulances parked up.

The video is a little odd. Again the vehicles seem to be parked up and there are ambulances with lights on going straight past the parked vehicles. If this was a queue it seems probable that the ambulances overtaking the parked vehicles would have joined the queue, yes?

In the photo it is clear that the ambulances are parked - notice how they are in marked parking spaces and that not all the spaces are being used?

It looks to me that all available ambulances have been rostered and are awaiting despatch in those items. There may be queues of some kind but given that admissions (on the day the article was published) were around 350 across the Moscow region these are not the queues that some people are claiming!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 24, 2020, 03:01:46 PM

Lot's of young German got infected after coming back from skiing trips in Switzerland, next door to Italy. They did a good job keeping the older population from getting infected. Taiwan place travel restrictions on China in December. They smelled Chinese BS early and took action early.


Most German's and in particular those younger than 35 would avoid Switzerland to ski. They prefer Austria and Italy. Austria has a better apres ski scene and like Italy is not so crazy expensive.

When my daughter working earlier this year and last year in München the company preferred Austria or yet again Italy. Switzerland was not even mentioned, except as an obstacle to Italy. They went to Austria, Aarlberg Region.


You are correct. I Googled the article from last month and it was young Germans skiing in Italy that brought the virus back to Germany.


Olga, there was a video circulating widely on English language media the other day which given its circulation was very likely what Billy saw and that video WAS ambulances
Here's a link to an article on the topic: https://www.rbc.ru/society/11/04/2020/5e91d8e29a79474d1e49515a?fromtg=1

Embedded in the article is a video showing a purported queue of people awaiting admission. There's also a picture which quite clearly shows a load of ambulances parked up.

The video is a little odd. Again the vehicles seem to be parked up and there are ambulances with lights on going straight past the parked vehicles. If this was a queue it seems probable that the ambulances overtaking the parked vehicles would have joined the queue, yes?


The video isn't odd. You're odd. Have you ever thought ambulances are parked with people inside who are not in critical condition waiting to get into the hospital and the ambulances that are passing them up have patients in critical condition and get priority?

Earlier you were saying that the ambulances were getting disinfected. Were you making that up? What idiot would schedule hundreds of ambulances with drivers to get disinfected at the same time!?!?! There's a huge cost for hundreds of ambulances and personnel to be parked all day and night, yes night according to Olga's video. Those ambulances have more important things to do than being parked to get cleaned.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 25, 2020, 12:35:53 AM
BillyB,

Whilst Italians call it Venezia Tridentina (?) Südtirol is defo part of Italy ( at the moment ) ......

Google is not your friend ....

Andrewfi,

I know you have this 'thang' whereby anything 'negative' about modern day Russia has to be 'defended' - even when there is no defence and the poster must therefore be 'russophobic', but could you TRY to answer Miss_Mouse' questions  re the status of the ambulances..?

You know that folks die waiting to see a doctor in Britain in A&E ... this virus is overwhelming healthcare systems in other nations, too ... 

SO far, the spread of the virus to many regions has been contained (more than likely by closing down hotels and actively discouraging folks from Moscow and Piter .. ) to the point that many Russians in regional cities just don't take it seriously, enough (
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 25, 2020, 11:40:09 AM
Quote
Putin was not prepared when the epidemic hit, says Nikolai Petrov, a Senior Research Fellow at London think tank, Chatham House. “That’s why he’s hardly visible now,” he says. Putin has “left Sobyanin and Mishustin to call the difficult shots so that if and when the epidemic gets worse, they can take the flack,” says Ben Noble, a Russian politics lecturer at University College London. “It’s a familiar Putin playbook move that we’ve seen before. He doesn’t want to be in leadership when he thinks it can backfire on him.”

But the state of Russia’s situation increasingly is becoming plain to see. The collapse in oil and natural gas prices threatens living standards, as the energy sector makes up two-thirds of the country’s exports. Experts are now predicting the worst recession in a generation, with a rise in the unemployment rate to 15% that could leave as many as eight million people without a job.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wheres-putin-russias-president-stays-174027625.html

Just a month ago, he congratulated China on its management of the coronavirus situation.  If they are doing such a good job, then how will it be if they totally  :censored: it all up?   (:) :duh:  Oh wait,  harmony and stability override several million dead.  :nod:
Oil went below $0 USD for the first time since 1870.  Oh the horror.    :o John Rockefeller would not become a tycoon.  And Saddam is going to invade Kuwait again.   :ROFL:


Quote
“This is stunning as it basically says that a barrel of oil earlier this week was effectively cheaper than it was in 1870. A period over which US inflation has risen +2870% and the S&P 500 +31746505% in total return terms,” the analysts wrote.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/about-150-years-of-oil-price-history-in-one-chart-illustrates-crudes-spectacular-plunge-below-0-a-barrel-2020-04-22
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 26, 2020, 01:36:33 AM
Its not hard to see why the virus is running amok in the US.

Here is something a pal of mine posted on Instagram last night. Screenshots from one of the flight tracker programmes.

Here was the UK last night under lockdown.

[attachimg=1 width=553]

And at the same moment, here is the US.

[attachimg=2]

One could be forgiven for thinking our friends over the pond aren't taking it seriously.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 26, 2020, 04:28:51 AM
You know that folks die waiting to see a doctor in Britain in A&E ... this virus is overwhelming healthcare systems in other nations, too ... 

Wrong again Moby, fake news pulling the UK into this.

The truth is, nearly all hospitals are running well under capacity and many are at 80% of normal occupancy. Many of the emergency ICU hospitals have had like 18/1000 occupancy and that was only down to convenience.

The Guardian is of course writing lots of whataboutery & may be stories, which at the moment, are nothing more than left wing, anti government opinions. That’s possibly where you’ve got yourself confused.....again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 26, 2020, 04:39:09 AM


Wrong again Moby, fake news pulling the UK into this.

Do you want to think about what you just posted as on the is very board I've posted EXACTLY what you now claim as fake ..?


The truth is, nearly all hospitals are running well under capacity and many are at 80% of normal occupancy. Many of the emergency ICU hospitals have had like 18/1000 occupancy and that was only down to convenience.

What IS true is that many folks are frightened to go to hospitals and my neighbour is going for chemo on Thursday and she has to call the ward and they will 'do' her out in the car park !

The Guardian is of course writing lots of whataboutery & may be stories, which at the moment, are nothing more than left wing, anti government opinions. That’s possibly where you’ve got yourself confused.....again.

The article about dying while waiting for a bed wasn't FROM the Guardian ...


You posted utter BOLLOX about NHS staff being 'tested' and now try to tell us factual incidents are 'untrue' ... ?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 26, 2020, 05:39:56 AM
Boris Johnson must resign now
His lousy leadership has cost us thousands of lives

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2020.04/l/5e9d9df02030277bdb1817ff.jpg)

By Chris Sweeney, author who has written for various UK magazines and newspapers, including The Times, The Sun and The Daily Record. Follow him on Twitter @WritesSweeney

The British prime minister's wanton dereliction of duty in the face of the Covid-19 pandemic has killed thousands and he must be held accountable.

Boris Johnson must go. Recent revelations have shown the prime minister to be an entitled, arrogant, dismissive and negligent oaf who cannot be allowed to continue in his position. The details about his conduct during the initial outbreak of Covid-19 put a new spin on the metaphor ‘asleep at the wheel'.

He's not even been in the car.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486331-boris-johnson-covid-19-resign/ (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486331-boris-johnson-covid-19-resign/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 26, 2020, 05:45:46 AM
an entitled, arrogant, dismissive and negligent oaf who cannot be allowed to continue in his position. The details about his conduct during the initial outbreak of Covid-19 put a new spin on the metaphor ‘asleep at the wheel’.

He’s not even been in the car.

I'd say that describes Trump more accurately than Boris.

Boris had the virus, he'll be back tomorrow and continue to be the best PM we have had since Thatcher and Churchill. No need for our resident Pinkos to start foaming at the mouth.

Your mate Moby will be along in a minute with a similar Guardian article or a link to the BBC.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 26, 2020, 05:55:56 AM


Wrong again Moby, fake news pulling the UK into this.

Do you want to think about what you just posted as on the is very board I've posted EXACTLY what you now claim as fake ..?


The truth is, nearly all hospitals are running well under capacity and many are at 80% of normal occupancy. Many of the emergency ICU hospitals have had like 18/1000 occupancy and that was only down to convenience.

What IS true is that many folks are frightened to go to hospitals and my neighbour is going for chemo on Thursday and she has to call the ward and they will 'do' her out in the car park !

The Guardian is of course writing lots of whataboutery & may be stories, which at the moment, are nothing more than left wing, anti government opinions. That’s possibly where you’ve got yourself confused.....again.

The article about dying while waiting for a bed wasn't FROM the Guardian ...


You posted utter BOLLOX about NHS staff being 'tested' and now try to tell us factual incidents are 'untrue' ... ?

More arguing from Moby.

You’re a sad wee man. What I posted is true, go and check. I’ve already embarrassed you several times with regards to testing because staff have been getting tested, you said that nobody was being tested, I proved you wrong.....again! Just because your English is terrible and you can’t differentiate between not enough testing and no testing, you end up making yourself look rather stupid.

And if you could read properly, I was discussing the Guardian doomsday articles with nothing more than opinions because as it stands, hospitals are under capacity and the hastily built ones empty. You said people are dying because our healthcare is overwhelmed.....which it’s clearly not. Again you either lied or you’re stupid.

I hadn’t referenced some random article you seem to think we’re talking about that isn’t even linked to this post. See what I mean, more can’t read/can’t understand from our resident HND in carrying bags pensioner.

You’re the one talking bollocks and arguing again.....it’s so boring. I’ve not posted here for a few days, popped my head in this morning and it’s just you arguing with other people none stop. You’re a car crash of a man and I guess having to send money to an absent wife who clearly doesn’t want to be with you, has made you a poorer man, in every way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 26, 2020, 06:17:00 AM
Good afternoon, Rosco.

That was a lot of words to confirm you didn't check back...that ...sadly...folks have died in A&E ..or even couldn't get an Ambulance in time.

London has been overloaded.

I noticed your bring up my HND rather than dealing with the facts you cannot accept.

My chosen path ( given my more than reasonable A levels) is not an embarrassment to me 

Our govt is refusing to discuss questions as to their ignoring the clear 'to dos' in the Pandemic dry run test...

THAT is embarrassing...Why should it be a 'secret'?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 26, 2020, 08:14:29 AM
Good afternoon, Rosco.

That was a lot of words to confirm you didn't check back...that ...sadly...folks have died in A&E ..or even couldn't get an Ambulance in time.

London has been overloaded.

I noticed your bring up my HND rather than dealing with the facts you cannot accept.

My chosen path ( given my more than reasonable A levels) is not an embarrassment to me 

Our govt is refusing to discuss questions as to their ignoring the clear 'to dos' in the Pandemic dry run test...

THAT is embarrassing...Why should it be a 'secret'?

One hospital in London might have been temporarily ‘overloaded’ so you tell the world that the NHS has collapsed. You’re a nut job.  :ROFL:

My friends daughter is a specialist nurse at St Thomas, she said numbers were thankfully dropping and it’s not as bad as they were expecting. I believe her more than you all day long.

Now jog along Moby, I’ve spent too much time correcting your nonsense today. I’ve proven you wrong again, yet you continue to bicker. Thankfully we take it in turns here to moderate your silliness, lies and lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 26, 2020, 08:38:19 AM
Good afternoon, Rosco.

That was a lot of words to confirm you didn't check back...that ...sadly...folks have died in A&E ..or even couldn't get an Ambulance in time.

London has been overloaded.

I noticed your bring up my HND rather than dealing with the facts you cannot accept.

My chosen path ( given my more than reasonable A levels) is not an embarrassment to me 

Our govt is refusing to discuss questions as to their ignoring the clear 'to dos' in the Pandemic dry run test...

THAT is embarrassing...Why should it be a 'secret'?

One hospital in London might have been temporarily ‘overloaded’ so you tell the world that the NHS has collapsed. You’re a nut job.  :ROFL:

My friends daughter is a specialist nurse at St Thomas, she said numbers were thankfully dropping and it’s not as bad as they were expecting. I believe her more than you all day long.

Now jog along Moby, I’ve spent too much time correcting your nonsense today. I’ve proven you wrong again, yet you continue to bicker. Thankfully we take it in turns here to moderate your silliness, lies and lack of knowledge.

As I have in prior posts noted my ex is a head of a specialist department in a hospital in the North of the U.K. While prepared to take overflow from hospitals as far south as Manchester they were never at full capacity.

Presently they are around 50% full in the Intensive Care side.

For the lurkers one can see yet again how ms will twist and misrepresent an item to fit his absolutely correct viewpoint. It is tiring to constantly point out the fallacy that ms posts and represents as fact.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 26, 2020, 08:42:47 AM
an entitled, arrogant, dismissive and negligent oaf who cannot be allowed to continue in his position. The details about his conduct during the initial outbreak of Covid-19 put a new spin on the metaphor ‘asleep at the wheel’.

He’s not even been in the car.

I'd say that describes Trump more accurately than Boris.

Boris had the virus, he'll be back tomorrow and continue to be the best PM we have had since Thatcher and Churchill. No need for our resident Pinkos to start foaming at the mouth.

Your mate Moby will be along in a minute with a similar Guardian article or a link to the BBC.  :chuckle:

In your haste to dispute the comments in the article about our absent Leader and make reference that "describes Trump more accurately than Boris" it is obvious however fast you may read and comprehend the article, 5 minutes it's not enough to read this long article as also all the links to Times paper etc..... to allow you to get a clear picture.

Your views about Boris are not necessary the same as other voters have in this country. You forget that the UK has not only one party neither it's a dictatorship and everybody has the right to express his own opinions.

My view is that Both Leaders, Boris and Trump have let down the people and  health systems, of both countries unprotected and now try to find and blame somebody else. I SUGGEST READ again the article, including the Times one too and then tell us your opinion.

Your comment: "No need for our resident Pinkos to start foaming at the mouth." it is much closer to Hitler's Fascist Ideology than to Democracy!

Finally, "Moby" has never been my mate...... but he is your own muppet, dogsbody and clown in your kingdom. It is pretty clear that you made sure and deleted a couple of photos I posted about him and you, despite the call of most member here to ban him ...... He is very good for your post count!

I see the sexy girls, with the big assets..... on the right, ... are back!  :)

Have a nice day!

 tiphat

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 26, 2020, 10:22:21 AM


For the lurkers one can see yet again how ms will twist and misrepresent an item to fit his absolutely correct viewpoint. It is tiring to constantly point out the fallacy that ms posts and represents as fact

Poor AvHdb

I mentioned London - not the NW - do try to keep up ... I have a biz partner, who if things got busy in the north - would be called back into action ... he hasn't been...

 I took delivery of a Performance Car Magazine, yesterday, that mentions one of the the treasure hunt where I met Jeremy Clarkson ... ( not the year we rescued him) ...just need to find the magazine covering the year after and we'll see who misrepresents, eh ?  :chuckle:

Now, Rosco ..

You told us no-one had died in A&E with COVID-19 ... they have ... 

You told us that Healthcare workers could be tested ... we keep reading of the serial fails ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 26, 2020, 10:28:00 AM
It is pretty clear that you made sure and deleted a couple of photos I posted about him and you

You are clueless ... My picture with Putin that you nicked .. you simply had no permission to reproduce it .. you had been warned
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 26, 2020, 10:32:20 AM

As I have in prior posts noted my ex is a head of a specialist department in a hospital in the North of the U.K. While prepared to take overflow from hospitals as far south as Manchester they were never at full capacity.

Presently they are around 50% full in the Intensive Care side.

For the lurkers one can see yet again how ms will twist and misrepresent an item to fit his absolutely correct viewpoint. It is tiring to constantly point out the fallacy that ms posts and represents as fact.


We had hot spots mainly New York but most of the country did not have a problem with a shortage of beds or ICU units. N95 mask and gloves were a problem in hot spots but we never ran out of ventilators like was feared.  The idea was to let people catch the virus and have enough hospital space to care for those who get sick over it. If you lock down early eventually you have to come out of lock down and then your people will eventually catch the disease. It is thought that 1.6 million people in New York have already had this disease. We are likely pushing close to ten million people in the USA that have already had this disease. These people that have already had the disease is part why there is hope for reopening.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
It is thought that 1.6 million people in New York have already had this disease. We are likely pushing close to ten million people in the USA that have already had this disease. These people that have already had the disease is part why there is hope for reopening.


Antibody tests are highly inaccurate and so are those reports.

Still bad new reported for those who are hoping for immunity and for an accurate antibodies test. Immunity is still not guaranteed and the current antibody tests may confuse other antibodies for coronaviruses such as the one that has the common cold for SARS COV-19. There's a lot of misinformation out there that gives people hope. Drug treatments, accurate tests, and vaccines do not exist. None have ever existed. Don't get too exited when a news article, laboratory, doctor, or politician promotes something or reports good news. Until good news is reported at CDC or WHO's websites, good news does not exist.

http://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Laboratory tests that detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in people, including rapid immunodiagnostic tests, need further validation to determine their accuracy and reliability. Inaccurate immunodiagnostic tests may falsely categorize people in two ways. The first is that they may falsely label people who have been infected as negative, and the second is that people who have not been infected are falsely labelled as positive. Both errors have serious consequences and will affect control efforts. These tests also need to accurately distinguish between past infections from SARS-CoV-2 and those caused by the known set of six human coronaviruses. Four of these viruses cause the common cold and circulate widely. The remaining two are the viruses that cause Middle East Respiratory Syndrome and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. People infected by any one of these viruses may produce antibodies that cross-react with antibodies produced in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 26, 2020, 11:10:53 AM
Over a week ago I believe I noted that an accurate test for anti-bodies may be impossible. Nothing that I have read changes my thinking in this regard. I suspect governments will though use a 'test' to determine travel and attempt to restrict other actions that one took for granted 'yesterday'.

There is a two sided race going on 1.) for a vaccine 2.) for the anti-body test. The 'winner' will be in a very powerful posistion if they do not make the results available free for all. Some say no this will never happen, I would note look at how drugs to assist those with HIV are distributed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 12:30:40 PM
The 'winner' will be in a very powerful posistion if they do not make the results available free for all.


There's riches and fame for the laboratory that finds a vaccine. Any government or private organization that funded the lab to find a vaccine will have a say in how it gets distributed and what the cost will be. It'll be impossible to create a vaccine for 7.8 billion people quickly. Some people and some nations will have to wait in line. I'm sure America is attempting to fund every lab in the world that is capable of finding a vaccine.

China, trying to redeem itself, has been working really hard to find a vaccine and treatments for COVID-19 too.

HACK ATTACK (http://www.engadget.com/us-blames-china-for-covid-19-research-hacks-171706759.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueWFob28uY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEnoS87_-86KjMkxMGWcCbRfIBznvM5DuursII2ii4suVjaCjNSqqt_KyHkxfc00FLPrc31Qpk2kEqzB-b2Yn3wDaOBqrBTGoEKUzOhF7LWkFnOVcU-7FmQQAIZ_9HiStIEuBtdfutJ7JM1IIOmHRBibqvnOIPHMqKNnntxp_Pd1)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 26, 2020, 12:31:13 PM
It is thought that 1.6 million people in New York have already had this disease. We are likely pushing close to ten million people in the USA that have already had this disease. These people that have already had the disease is part why there is hope for reopening.


Antibody tests are highly inaccurate and so are those reports.

Still bad new reported for those who are hoping for immunity and for an accurate antibodies test. Immunity is still not guaranteed and the current antibody tests may confuse other antibodies for coronaviruses such as the one that has the common cold for SARS COV-19. There's a lot of misinformation out there that gives people hope. Drug treatments, accurate tests, and vaccines do not exist. None have ever existed. Don't get too exited when a news article, laboratory, doctor, or politician promotes something or reports good news. Until good news is reported at CDC or WHO's websites, good news does not exist.

http://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Laboratory tests that detect antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in people, including rapid immunodiagnostic tests, need further validation to determine their accuracy and reliability. Inaccurate immunodiagnostic tests may falsely categorize people in two ways. The first is that they may falsely label people who have been infected as negative, and the second is that people who have not been infected are falsely labelled as positive. Both errors have serious consequences and will affect control efforts. These tests also need to accurately distinguish between past infections from SARS-CoV-2 and those caused by the known set of six human coronaviruses. Four of these viruses cause the common cold and circulate widely. The remaining two are the viruses that cause Middle East Respiratory Syndrome and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. People infected by any one of these viruses may produce antibodies that cross-react with antibodies produced in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2.


If the anti bodies did not work then you never gotten rid of the disease. The anti bodies kill the disease that is how you get rid of it. How long they last is another story and if the work on a another version of the disease. If anti bodies do not work then no vaccine and we are looking at the eventually end of the Human race. This disease will keep killing 1 per cent of the population until  no one if left.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
If the anti bodies did not work then you never gotten rid of the disease.


Every time you got sick pre COVID-19, your body created antibodies to get rid of the pathogen. Those people in NY that where discovered to have antibodies in their blood doesn't mean they just beat SARS-COV-19. They may have just beat a coronavirus that caused the common cold. The belief there was a lot of New Yorkers who have beaten COVID-19 is false. The tests are faulty.

How long they last is another story and if the work on a another version of the disease.


Scientists did a study on SARS. Antibodies remain present for 2 years and begin to diminish. The conclusion of the study was it is possible to have immunity for a few years and then get reinfected. The study didn't guarantee immunity though.

If anti bodies do not work then no vaccine and we are looking at the eventually end of the Human race. This disease will keep killing 1 per cent of the population until  no one if left.


Young people have a high chance of survival. When those young people become old, they may eventually die from COVID-19 if they get infected once a year or every few years. The human race won't end but our quality of life will diminish and our life expectancies will significantly shorten.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 26, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
an entitled, arrogant, dismissive and negligent oaf who cannot be allowed to continue in his position. The details about his conduct during the initial outbreak of Covid-19 put a new spin on the metaphor ‘asleep at the wheel'.

He's not even been in the car.

I'd say that describes Trump more accurately than Boris.

Boris had the virus, he'll be back tomorrow and continue to be the best PM we have had since Thatcher and Churchill. No need for our resident Pinkos to start foaming at the mouth.

Your mate Moby will be along in a minute with a similar Guardian article or a link to the BBC.  :chuckle:

In your haste to dispute the comments in the article about our absent Leader and make reference that "describes Trump more accurately than Boris" it is obvious however fast you may read and comprehend the article, 5 minutes it's not enough to read this long article as also all the links to Times paper etc..... to allow you to get a clear picture.

Wiz, you're showing your age. 1-2 minutes is plenty to read that article. I dont need to check Times links as I read the Times anyway. And FWIW the Times is behind a paywall.

I know all the details, I am a party member and can count an ex health minister among my friends. I'm quite well informed.

Like I said, Boris will be back tomorrow and this week we will see details of the lockdown being incrementally loosened.

What you posted is leftist speculative nonsense more suited to the Guardian. It's not to be confused with news. I'm surprised RT ran that. They must be short staffed. Maybe I should return writing for them if standards are dropping so low.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 26, 2020, 01:48:41 PM
If the anti bodies did not work then you never gotten rid of the disease.


Every time you got sick pre COVID-19, your body created antibodies to get rid of the pathogen. Those people in NY that where discovered to have antibodies in their blood doesn't mean they just beat SARS-COV-19. They may have just beat a coronavirus that caused the common cold. The belief there was a lot of New Yorkers who have beaten COVID-19 is false. The tests are faulty.

How long they last is another story and if the work on a another version of the disease.


Scientists did a study on SARS. Antibodies remain present for 2 years and begin to diminish. The conclusion of the study was it is possible to have immunity for a few years and then get reinfected. The study didn't guarantee immunity though.

If anti bodies do not work then no vaccine and we are looking at the eventually end of the Human race. This disease will keep killing 1 per cent of the population until  no one if left.


Young people have a high chance of survival. When those young people become old, they may eventually die from COVID-19 if they get infected once a year or every few years. The human race won't end but our quality of life will diminish and our life expectancies will significantly shorten.

If we did not have some immunity from this because of coronavirus flu we all catch from time to time the death rate would sore to nearly a 100 per cent. The more people that catch this the more resistance we will have. People who catch it a second time for the most part will do better than the first time if they were not too damaged by it the first time. A vaccine just causes the body to build up immunity by getting the body to produce anti bodies. What who is saying that a person that got it once and not guaranteed  to not get it again but the population of 1.6 million people will not get it as often or as server.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2020, 02:47:15 PM
If we did not have some immunity from this because of coronavirus flu we all catch from time to time the death rate would sore to nearly a 100 per cent.


Throughout our lives, most of the time our bodies beat flu viruses and there can still be the ONE time we don't.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 26, 2020, 02:50:14 PM
If we did not have some immunity from this because of coronavirus flu we all catch from time to time the death rate would sore to nearly a 100 per cent.


Throughout our lives, most of the time our bodies beat flu viruses and there can still be the ONE time we don't.

There is always a first for everything!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 27, 2020, 06:47:59 AM
an entitled, arrogant, dismissive and negligent oaf who cannot be allowed to continue in his position. The details about his conduct during the initial outbreak of Covid-19 put a new spin on the metaphor ‘asleep at the wheel’.

He’s not even been in the car.

I'd say that describes Trump more accurately than Boris.

Boris had the virus, he'll be back tomorrow and continue to be the best PM we have had since Thatcher and Churchill. No need for our resident Pinkos to start foaming at the mouth.

Your mate Moby will be along in a minute with a similar Guardian article or a link to the BBC.  :chuckle:

In your haste to dispute the comments in the article about our absent Leader and make reference that "describes Trump more accurately than Boris" it is obvious however fast you may read and comprehend the article, 5 minutes it's not enough to read this long article as also all the links to Times paper etc..... to allow you to get a clear picture.

Wiz, you're showing your age. 1-2 minutes is plenty to read that article. I dont need to check Times links as I read the Times anyway. And FWIW the Times is behind a paywall.

I know all the details, I am a party member and can count an ex health minister among my friends. I'm quite well informed.

Like I said, Boris will be back tomorrow and this week we will see details of the lockdown being incrementally loosened.

What you posted is leftist speculative nonsense more suited to the Guardian. It's not to be confused with news. I'm surprised RT ran that. They must be short staffed. Maybe I should return writing for them if standards are dropping so low.

I accept, I am older but wiser and I don’t just scan reading any article in 1 -2 min, not that I can’t but I prefer to make sure I understand all the implications of the comments or statements in any article, I read.

I also read the Times despite it’s behind a Pay wall! I also read other papers too, Guardian, Observer, Mail, Independent but not the Sun and the right wing Daily Express, where surprise, surprise you  post articles !  :laugh:

I understand as a member of the Zionist (Conservative) party, you have the need to scan the papers and of course to post fast your trolling comments to deflect accusations and criticism, like your comment that Boris Johnson has been doing a good Job!, you made on this thread!

The fact is that you made a trolling post, like your puppet/clown Moby does, calling the article "speculative nonsense". You know very well all the facts mentioned in the article about our PM and your leader are true and not lies, which you cannot dispute! :nod:

Personally I don’t belong to any party or owe anybody any favours neither I need to brag for any connections, like you are doing "I am a party member and can count an ex health minister among my friends." and also your "friend" Muppet Moby!  As far as I know you only have contacts or acquaintances who maybe can be useful, because you vote for them!   

If Moby is not your friend, why then you delete certain comments of mine and also the links to photos YOU already posted on this board, like the one from your Xmas party?

As about your friend Moby, if he doesn’t want anybody to copy his photos, he should not post them on the internet in the first place. I agree with you that he needs help to be accepted in an asylum establishment and with your connections you may help him!

MOBY I have already told you that too much onanism (Malakia) is affecting your brain.!  :biggrin:

Manny, have I ever posted any photos that I have in my collection of a certain person of this board?

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 27, 2020, 07:11:34 AM


I know all the details, I am a party member and can count an ex health minister among my friends. I'm quite well informed.

A former Chancellor and not a few other former govt ministers have been clients and while they are in power / serving, it is considered 'bad form' to name drop ..

I'd particularly not wish to post I knew Mr Hancock, given his handling of the virus from procurement, to testing ... 


Like I said, Boris will be back tomorrow and this week we will see details of the lockdown being incrementally loosened.

'Sure' you will ...  I'm v.glad ( in a positive way) that Boris has not only seen the effects of the virus, but the work being done on the front lines ..

Here comes the usual 'nasty Guardian' bollox ...

What you posted is leftist speculative nonsense more suited to the Guardian. It's not to be confused with news. I'm surprised RT ran that. They must be short staffed. Maybe I should return writing for them if standards are dropping so low.

YOU clearly didn't know the 'gossip' as BoJo has put the mockers on mad talk of easing the lock-down ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 27, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
I understand as a member of the Zionist (Conservative) party, you have the need to scan the papers and of course to post fast your trolling comments to deflect accusations and criticism, like your comment that Boris Johnson has been doing a good Job!, you made on this thread!

Wiz, Not sure if Manny and I are willing to be in the same party!

On one side you proclaim how well the UK is doing compared to the US and than demand the removal of Prime Minster B. Johnson. What will make you happy?


As about your friend Moby, if he doesn’t want anybody to copy his photos, he should not post them on the internet in the first place.

This is a good common sense approach.  tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 27, 2020, 10:32:17 AM
YOU clearly didn't know the 'gossip' as BoJo has put the mockers on mad talk of easing the lock-down ...

Boris reappeared as predicted.

You're right Boris has stalled loosening a little bit longer, which I happen to generally agree with. But the cabinet are not all on the same page. Many see no need for parks to be closed, and dont see why businesses such as garden centres pose any more risk than Asda, and I agree with that too. Boris is being heavily lobbied to throw people a nugget and show some light at the end of the tunnel lest they start to disregard the lockdown and do their own thing anyway.

You can't go to some parks, go to the tip or buy some gardening supplies (unless the store also self identifies as hardware), but it's OK to still have Chinese and Italian flights landing? How is a bloke going to the tip with some rubbish posing more of a risk than inbound flights from China and Italy and nobody being screened? Boris will need to face those realities soon enough and the media will probably be pushing those narratives as the cabinet leaks to them.

The general lockdown is necessary to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and reduce infection numbers. That is happening now, so it can't be very much longer before before there's no excuse not to start letting some places open up again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 27, 2020, 11:37:30 AM

Now, Rosco ..

You told us no-one had died in A&E with COVID-19 ... they have ... 

You told us that Healthcare workers could be tested ... we keep reading of the serial fails ...

I really don’t like having to continually reply to you but we can’t have you lying about me all the time. It’s not good form for a grown man your age.

I never once said that no-one has died in a&e with Covid and I can only assume you can’t understand what was written. Ask questions if you don’t understand? I proved that you were wrong when you told us that the NHS was overwhelmed. We’ve not run out of ventilators, we’ve got more than enough capacity in ICU and to date it’s all under control, considering.

And for the millionth time, healthcare workers have been getting tested since the beginning. This is different from me saying all health care workers have been tested and there’s enough testing being done. Again ask questions if you can’t keep up.

Now are you a liar or do you have trouble understanding what the adults write?

 :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 27, 2020, 11:48:40 AM

I know all the details, I am a party member and can count an ex health minister among my friends. I'm quite well informed.

A former Chancellor and not a few other former govt ministers have been clients and while they are in power / serving, it is considered 'bad form' to name drop ..

I'd particularly not wish to post I knew Mr Hancock, given his handling of the virus from procurement, to testing ... 

I didn't name drop, and I didn't mean Matt Hancock. Why you persist in making things up is beyond me.

Rosco said it well:

Quote from: Rosco
I really don’t like having to continually reply to you but we can’t have you lying about me all the time. It’s not good form for a grown man your age.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 27, 2020, 12:13:31 PM
Returning to China's gift. Sadly today we will pass 3,000,000 million confirmed cases world wide and 1,000,000 in the United States.

Most likely the actual reality is far higher.

On a positive note the increases in most countries of new cases is declining. As a guess the vast majority of The United States on a modified basis will re-open by Memorial Weekend.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 27, 2020, 12:41:25 PM
China's gift.

It isnt even established it is from China given the inability to identify patient zero or the route from the bats.

Many people - myself included - had something that if not it, was remarkably similar in late December last year. That there are already circa five strains and that some are evident outside of China only tells us this may have been around for a while in one form or another. Probably regarded as flu. It's been widely reported.

For example, see here: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1246207/coronavirus-uk-virus-origin-wuhan-china-seafood-market-covid-19-spread

And here: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/26/coronavirus-fact-check-could-your-december-cough-have-been-covid-19/2899027001/

This was interesting I read today:

Quote
COVID Symptom tracker, designed by scientists at King's College London, asks its 2.6million users to report their symptoms daily, even if they are well, in order to map the disease's spread.

Hundreds of contributors have, however, also admitted to suffering from Covid-like symptoms soon after the new year with a few even saying they thought they had the disease in late December, the Professor Genetic Epidemiology at King's and scientist working on the app, Tim Spector, has said.

Although the cases are untested, the reports suggest the virus gained a foothold in the UK long before the first case was identified on British soil on January 31, when two Chinese people in York tested positive for the virus.

From here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8258291/Tracker-app-shows-coronavirus-spreading-UK-weeks-case-spotted.html

The term "China virus" is a Trumpism and US Newspeak. Nobody knows the true origins.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 27, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Quote
Until recently, Webb said, his YouTube videos included advertisements -- meaning the platform, which is owned by Google, was making money from Webb's misinformation, as was Webb himself.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/exclusive-shes-been-falsely-accused-of-starting-the-coronavirus-her-life-has-been-turned-upside-down/ar-BB13goT5

Always looking for the scapegoat.   :chuckle:
It's all about the money AGAIN.  The internet needs to end all of this affiliate and advertising CRAP.   :money: :censored: :GRRRR:


Quote
“I don’t believe there are incurable diseases. God can heal anything,” Landon said during an interview at a 2016 motorcycle rally in Daytona Beach, Fla. “There are documented cases of God healing AIDS. God can cause limbs to grow out where they’ve been chopped off. God can raise the dead.”

“I know that Jesus was against this,” she said. “I'm not angry. I know who did it. It's the devil that comes to steal, to kill and to destroy.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-virginia-preacher-believed-god-can-heal-anything-then-he-caught-coronavirus/ar-BB13gpl2

Now we have the real perpetrator of the virus.  The devil.  :evilgrin0002:   
For the non-believers, the virus is an agent to "cull the herd".   :bow: :snivel: :-\
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22411125
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 27, 2020, 06:19:23 PM
China's gift.

It isnt even established it is from China given the inability to identify patient zero or the route from the bats.


It has been established China covered it up and silenced whistleblowers. They lied to WHO and the world about the virus not being contagious or human to human transferable. They lied about how many people they have infected and died giving other nations the impression this is no more dangerous than the flu. If they are innocent, they should not need to hide anything but they've hid everything until they couldn't hide it no more.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 27, 2020, 07:01:52 PM
Because of closures of meat packing plants we may see meat shortage starting by the coming week end. We maybe pay much higher prices for meat while famers are getting less for their cattle. In effect we are paying for the closed plants. Farmers are worried they may go broke because they can not sell cattle, hogs and chickens when they need too. They have to keep feeding the animals and there is a shortage of food and cost of food for cattle has risen a lot. Higher cost, combine with a longer feed time and a lower price is tuff. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 27, 2020, 08:49:20 PM
Because of closures of meat packing plants we may see meat shortage starting by the coming week end. We maybe pay much higher prices for meat while famers are getting less for their cattle. In effect we are paying for the closed plants. Farmers are worried they may go broke because they can not sell cattle, hogs and chickens when they need too. They have to keep feeding the animals and there is a shortage of food and cost of food for cattle has risen a lot. Higher cost, combine with a longer feed time and a lower price is tuff.

Prices of beef and pork have risen, by at least 20% in the NorthEast. Poultry by about 10%. It is not due to production problems but rather distribution issues. I suspect if current trends in infection rates continue to decline, than supply will improve and prices decline.

While I am uncertain who said we 'are three meals away from anarchy', but there is some truth in that statement.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 27, 2020, 10:17:11 PM
China's gift.

It isnt even established it is from China given the inability to identify patient zero or the route from the bats.


It has been established China covered it up and silenced whistleblowers. They lied to WHO and the world about the virus not being contagious or human to human transferable. They lied about how many people they have infected and died giving other nations the impression this is no more dangerous than the flu. If they are innocent, they should not need to hide anything but they've hid everything until they couldn't hide it no more.

Silly FAKE American Media propaganda , instead of providing factual evidence.... Even Tramp changed his story......before the Chinese's made him look like a fool.......

Grow up and make some factual posts and not continue spreading fake news!
Nobody believes you anymore....... :evilgrin0002:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 27, 2020, 10:27:09 PM

Sen Graham is asking the Democrats to help pass a bill to have China close the wet markets, free Hong Kong prisoners and fully cooperate with any Coronavirus investigations. Punishment for not complying is sanctions on certain Chinese officials, seizure of their assets, cut China off from American financial institutions, shut down visas and travel, and close America off to China. Will the Democrats punish or defend China? 57,000 Americans dead and 26 million out of work due to Chinese negligence and deception. Wiz, you probably don't care what happens to your fellow citizens or the nation that is taking care of you because you aren't interested in hearing the truth that a Communist nation did wrong.
 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 27, 2020, 10:28:51 PM
A friend of mine who said he new what it was like in one of the plants does not know how they can make it safe to work with a disease like this. We will see what modifications will be needed to be able to reopen the plants and each state maybe different. I am sure they are going to want to quarantine all the workers for at least two weeks and then test them. There is also some worker law suites and deaths to contend with.  I am not saying it is the end of the world but it may not be as simple as it would first appear. Maybe Osha gets involved because some workers died. We presently have twelve plants closed down.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 27, 2020, 10:51:14 PM

Sen Graham is asking the Democrats to help pass a bill to have China close the wet markets, free Hong Kong prisoners and fully cooperate with any Coronavirus investigations. Punishment for not complying is sanctions on certain Chinese officials, seizure of their assets, cut China off from American financial institutions, shut down visas and travel, and close America off to China.

What is really happening here is if your are a USA business that is getting parts from China you get the idea you need to find a supplier else where. Of course, China will use counter measures will also up set US business making even more business want to leave or find suppliers else where. No matter the out come of this one item it will be apparent to many USA business Chinese trade relations with the USA are in decline and it is not going to be a reliable supplier going forward.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on April 27, 2020, 11:30:30 PM
China's gift.

It isnt even established it is from China given the inability to identify patient zero or the route from the bats.


It has been established China covered it up and silenced whistleblowers. They lied to WHO and the world about the virus not being contagious or human to human transferable. They lied about how many people they have infected and died giving other nations the impression this is no more dangerous than the flu.

That may be so, but didn’t address the quoted text.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 27, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Because of closures of meat packing plants we may see meat shortage starting by the coming week end. We maybe pay much higher prices for meat while famers are getting less for their cattle. In effect we are paying for the closed plants. Farmers are worried they may go broke because they can not sell cattle, hogs and chickens when they need too. They have to keep feeding the animals and there is a shortage of food and cost of food for cattle has risen a lot. Higher cost, combine with a longer feed time and a lower price is tuff.

Prices of beef and pork have risen, by at least 20% in the NorthEast. Poultry by about 10%. It is not due to production problems but rather distribution issues. I suspect if current trends in infection rates continue to decline, than supply will improve and prices decline.

While I am uncertain who said we 'are three meals away from anarchy', but there is some truth in that statement.


Quote
"Every society is three meals away from chaos."
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/853096-every-society-is-three-meals-away-from-chaos
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 27, 2020, 11:55:12 PM
Quote
The condition has been found both among children who have tested positive for the coronavirus and those that have not.

Quote
“It’s all very new. We don’t know if there’s a mutated form of the virus that is causing this.
“The timeline is odd, too. All the kids I have talked to have stayed inside for the last few weeks, so it doesn’t match what we know about the incubation period. But because of the lack of testing, we can’t know for sure if they caught it off their parents, or by some other route.

“They can then become seriously ill very quickly. Some of the kids I treated have been transferred to intensive care because their organs were starting to fail. None of them have yet died, as far as I’m aware.”

Meanwhile, doctors in other countries reported similar cases in their hospitals.  A general inflammatory syndrome was reported for selected Covid-19 patients recently in University Hospital Zurich, while an Italian study published on Monday reported a  “significant increase of Kawasaki disease in Covid positive children”.

In the US, leaders at the Children’s National Hospital in Washington said they had been “surprised” by the number of children needing critical care.

Kawasaki disease affects mostly children under five years old and causes inflammation in the walls of the blood vessels. The rare condition can lead to aneurysms, heart attacks or heart failure.

https://news.yahoo.com/serious-coronavirus-related-condition-may-114858433.html

https://news.yahoo.com/nhs-alert-over-coronavirus-related-080923079.html


Virus is targeting the younger ones too.   Parasites do not want the host to die quickly.  So they just damage you for a long duration.   :snivel: :scared0005: :-\


Quote
The 49-year-old's father, Dr. Philip Breen, told the New York Times: "She tried to do her job and it killed her."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-top-nyc-doctor-takes-035823014.html

As many of them as stated,  "I did not sign up for this".   Then the only other alternative is to tell everyone to go home and recover or die.  :snivel: :saint:

Quote
In an interview with the Chronicle, California-based forensic pathologists agreed that the severity of this heart attack is not typical. “There’s something abnormal about the fact that a perfectly normal heart has burst open,” Dr. Judy Melinek said. “The heart has ruptured. Normal hearts don’t rupture.”

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-caused-womans-heart-to-rupture-in-first-known-fatal-case-an-injury-most-common-in-car-crashes-200306310.html

This virus is hitting you on all fronts.  The respiratory, circulatory, and nervous systems.  So you think it will be the same as the "common cold"?  Remember that in a war, you can run out of ammunition.   :biggrin: :hidechair: :snivel: :scared0005: (:) :-X

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 12:29:49 AM


I really don’t like having to continually reply to you

Just accept it when busted, then   

1/ You told us that I was incorrect in suggesting patients had died in A&E - they had ..  London was over-stretched ...  Thanks to the f'n marvellous workers, people obeying the requests to stay at home / self-distance AND the govt abandoning it's initial 'Sweden' approach - they performed miracles and headed off disaster.

2/ Healthcare ( and care-workers)  being tested ?  This is why you should refrain from posting - if you don't like being busted.

Don't watch this mornings BBC Breakfast program as you'd not want to hear the response to "Have you been tested? " put to those in the front-line..

As of last Friday the BBC rang 200 care homes and over 70% - no tests https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52418630 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52418630)


Hospital workers?   You've been trying to tell us they can be tested for nearly three weeks, during which I've told you of REAL Theatre Nurse Runners who WEREN'T tested and simply self-isolated for 14 days.   Even yesterday, one can see that the( latest)  govt target is reaching 20 percent ..

"They can also book online themselves and choose whether to attend a regional test site, or ask for a home test kit.

However, with thousands of people using the site since its launch, many have found that tests are no longer available."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51943612 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51943612)


'Indeed, Rosco' .. all these people are 'liars'..along with Moby ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 28, 2020, 12:37:23 AM
China's gift.

It isnt even established it is from China given the inability to identify patient zero or the route from the bats.


It has been established China covered it up and silenced whistleblowers. They lied to WHO and the world about the virus not being contagious or human to human transferable. They lied about how many people they have infected and died giving other nations the impression this is no more dangerous than the flu.

That may be so, but didn’t address the quoted text.

China has not allowed international experts to investigate the origins of the virus. If they don't want to cooperate, then the virus is a gift from them. Surprise. What are the chances the virus of the century was found in a wet market 280 meters away from the ONLY facility in China allowed to store those kind of viruses?

The Wuhan lab does work with the closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2, which is a bat coronavirus called RaTG13, evolutionary virologist Edward Holmes, of the Charles Perkins Center and the Marie Bashir Institute for Infectious Diseases and Biosecurity at the University of Sydney, said in a statement from the Australian Media Center. But, he added, "the level of genome sequence divergence between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 is equivalent to an average of 50 years (and at least 20 years) of evolutionary change." (That means that in the wild, it would take about 50 years for these viruses to evolve to be as different as they are.)

Though no scientists have come forth with even a speck of evidence that humans knowingly manipulated a virus using some sort of genetic engineering, a researcher at Flinders University in South Australia lays out another scenario that involves human intervention. Bat coronaviruses can be cultured in lab dishes with cells that have the human ACE2 receptor; over time, the virus will gain adaptations that let it efficiently bind to those receptors. Along the way, that virus would pick up random genetic mutations that pop up but don't do anything noticeable, said Nikolai Petrovsky, in the College of Medicine and Public Health at Flinders.

"The result of these experiments is a virus that is highly virulent in humans but is sufficiently different that it no longer resembles the original bat virus," Petrovsky said in a statement from the Australian Media Center. "Because the mutations are acquired randomly by selection, there is no signature of a human gene jockey, but this is clearly a virus still created by human intervention."

http://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-complicated-origins.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 01:08:28 AM
BillyB

You seem to be determined to compete with our resident conspiracy 'expert' .. ( Nick beginning with a 'C')

I'm not defending China... I do not know enough and you certainly don't.

The way to understanding is certainly not politicising WHO and hopefully, the truth will out,

IF it turns out that this was a mistake and cover up by the govt then the Chinese people will deal with it .

Behaving as if we know and using this as some sort of 'excuse' to punish the Chinese govt seems to be a very 'Trampish' and childish policy ... not a wise one.

I buy stuff from China, directly. I know I can't buy better, at the mo - logistically / financially.



 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 28, 2020, 03:48:39 AM


I really don’t like having to continually reply to you

Just accept it when busted, then   


Oh shut up Moby for gods sake. Just walk away from a discussion when you're wrong. Nothing you have posted here even acknowledges the reality of our conversation or dispels my claims in any way. This is why you're known as a liar, a troll and a looney who nobody wants in their life.



1/ You told us that I was incorrect in suggesting patients had died in A&E - they had ..  London was over-stretched ...  Thanks to the f'n marvellous workers, people obeying the requests to stay at home / self-distance AND the govt abandoning it's initial 'Sweden' approach - they performed miracles and headed off disaster.


Lies, I never said that. We're back to your poor reading skills and pathetic grasp of natural English again. Read my previous posts because this has been addressed several times. I never said what you're trying to argue about. You said that the whole NHS was overwhelmed where in fact its clearly not. You're wrong, I'm right. Hint - A&E deaths is clearly just a side story for you to clutch starts with and it doesn't even prove the NHS has collapsed.


2/ Healthcare ( and care-workers)  being tested ?  This is why you should refrain from posting - if you don't like being busted.

Don't watch this mornings BBC Breakfast program as you'd not want to hear the response to "Have you been tested? " put to those in the front-line..


So you watched a morning programme on the BBC with your mum so she could explain to you whats happening? And this is the proof? Again go back and re-read my last post because this has been covered. I never said all NHS staff have been tested and I never said testing is at a satisfactory level. Get this into your thick little head.

Testing is being done and I personally know several NHS staff in Scotland and England who were tested weeks ago. It's happening which means I'm right.

If you try to troll/bait me into wasting anymore of my time, where I need to correct your false allegations and lies, I'll simply report your post and it'll probably hit the bin. You'll no doubt claim I'm being protected because yea, Manny has time for that but what I've said is very clear on both testing and a&e deaths.

Now bugger off you sad little man and look after your mother.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 06:27:40 AM

Oh shut up Moby for gods sake. Just walk away from a discussion when you're wrong. Nothing you have posted here even acknowledges the reality of our conversation or dispels my claims in any way. This is why you're known as a liar, a troll and a looney who nobody wants in their life.

Thank you for ( once again) posting links to 'prove' my points were 'wrong' ..

Lies, I never said that. We're back to your poor reading skills and pathetic grasp of natural English again. Read my previous posts because this has been addressed several times. I never said what you're trying to argue about. You said that the whole NHS was overwhelmed where in fact its clearly not.

There's the actual lie ...

1/ You disputed this post of mine  "You know that folks die waiting to see a doctor in Britain in A&E ... [/quote]  It was a factual example

2/ "this virus is overwhelming healthcare systems in other nations, too ... "   

What the *beep* was incorrect about this statement of fact ?   Do you realise that death's are up 100 percent on this time last year ... ?

You're wrong, I'm right. Hint - A&E deaths is clearly just a side story for you to clutch starts with and it doesn't even prove the NHS has collapsed.

Luckily I just reproduced what I actually said ....NOT what you posted   :coffeeread:


2/ Healthcare ( and care-workers)  being tested ?  This is why you should refrain from posting - if you don't like being busted.

Don't watch this mornings BBC Breakfast program as you'd not want to hear the response to "Have you been tested? " put to those in the front-line..


So you watched a morning programme on the BBC with your mum so she could explain to you whats happening? And this is the proof? Again go back and re-read my last post because this has been covered. I never said all NHS staff have been tested and I never said testing is at a satisfactory level. Get this into your thick little head.

Firstly, I did not watch it with Mum.. What a crassly thoughtless and stupid comment .. She is scared of having to be admitted to hospital, being alone ..and we do not watch any news .. She cannot change channel and I ensure she sese nature or 'happy' type programs .

Back on topic... So, did the BBC, ITV, SKY, the Theatre Nurse Runner  'make up'  this lack of testing ? ....  What does it take for Rosco to admit he's posted daft on yet another subject ?

Health Minister's promise:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-isnt-the-uk-using-its-full-testing-capacity-11977115 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-isnt-the-uk-using-its-full-testing-capacity-11977115)

FACT:

From thee days ago - bearing in mind Rosco has been telling us that NHS staff are being tested ..  Day one ..only 1,000 kits were available for the whole of England ..

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1273332/coronavirus-test-uk-government-website-crashed-latest-online-applications-covid-19? (https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1273332/coronavirus-test-uk-government-website-crashed-latest-online-applications-covid-19?)
"despite going live this morning, the government's website for applications has already crashed.

The plan was for up to 10 million key workers, and their households, to have the option of being tested, as they continue to battle against the infection on the front lines.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock revealed the plans to expand Britain's testing capability.

There was a daily allowance of 1,000 kits, including swabs and instructions."


So, 1,000 test kits for 10 million key workers ... 'GREAT'... 1: 10,000  :'(  Now we see how 'right' Rosco was nearly two weeks on from his original suggestion that  staff could and were being tested ..  :coffeeread:

The temporary over-stretch and explaining to andrewfi that us pointing us that ambulances WERE waiting to deliver patients wasn't a criticism.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 28, 2020, 07:05:38 AM
ms while I have no desire to waddle into your mud pit, compliments for a reasonable post #1712.

One question you are stating there are only 1,000 test kits per day for health workers and family. Are you confident that is an accurate number? It seems amazingly low to me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 08:13:11 AM
https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/governments-coronavirus-test-application-site-18143138 (https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/governments-coronavirus-test-application-site-18143138)

In answer to AvHdB

The TRANSPORT(?) secretary claimed 5000 kits were administered

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/grant-shapps-coronavirus-tests-website-down-a4423706.html

If that was true, 20 times less than the end of April daily target.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 28, 2020, 10:09:12 AM
Avhdb, as I recall the 1000 refers to antibody tests. There's a big problem with getting a reliable test. Not unique to the UK.

The goal is to do 100k tests per day by the end of the month. I think they managed about 40k yesterday. Antibody tests were supposed to be a large part of the 100k figure.

The government has said that they will not roll out a poor test and they are right. Some countries are using unreliable tests on s 'better than nothing' basis but that's not good if it is being used as a gatekeeper for health workers returning to work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 28, 2020, 10:24:52 AM
BillyB

You seem to be determined to compete with our resident conspiracy 'expert' .. ( Nick beginning with a 'C')


I provide a legitimate source with competent scientists commenting and you think it's conspiracy quality?  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on April 28, 2020, 12:03:20 PM

Oh shut up Moby for gods sake. Just walk away from a discussion when you're wrong. Nothing you have posted here even acknowledges the reality of our conversation or dispels my claims in any way. This is why you're known as a liar, a troll and a looney who nobody wants in their life.

Thank you for ( once again) posting links to 'prove' my points were 'wrong' ..

Lies, I never said that. We're back to your poor reading skills and pathetic grasp of natural English again. Read my previous posts because this has been addressed several times. I never said what you're trying to argue about. You said that the whole NHS was overwhelmed where in fact its clearly not.

There's the actual lie ...

1/ You disputed this post of mine  "You know that folks die waiting to see a doctor in Britain in A&E ...
  It was a factual example

2/ "this virus is overwhelming healthcare systems in other nations, too ... "   

What the *beep* was incorrect about this statement of fact ?   Do you realise that death's are up 100 percent on this time last year ... ?

You're wrong, I'm right. Hint - A&E deaths is clearly just a side story for you to clutch starts with and it doesn't even prove the NHS has collapsed.

Luckily I just reproduced what I actually said ....NOT what you posted   :coffeeread:


2/ Healthcare ( and care-workers)  being tested ?  This is why you should refrain from posting - if you don't like being busted.

Don't watch this mornings BBC Breakfast program as you'd not want to hear the response to "Have you been tested? " put to those in the front-line..


So you watched a morning programme on the BBC with your mum so she could explain to you whats happening? And this is the proof? Again go back and re-read my last post because this has been covered. I never said all NHS staff have been tested and I never said testing is at a satisfactory level. Get this into your thick little head.

Firstly, I did not watch it with Mum.. What a crassly thoughtless and stupid comment .. She is scared of having to be admitted to hospital, being alone ..and we do not watch any news .. She cannot change channel and I ensure she sese nature or 'happy' type programs .

Back on topic... So, did the BBC, ITV, SKY, the Theatre Nurse Runner  'make up'  this lack of testing ? ....  What does it take for Rosco to admit he's posted daft on yet another subject ?

Health Minister's promise:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-isnt-the-uk-using-its-full-testing-capacity-11977115 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-isnt-the-uk-using-its-full-testing-capacity-11977115)

FACT:

From thee days ago - bearing in mind Rosco has been telling us that NHS staff are being tested ..  Day one ..only 1,000 kits were available for the whole of England ..

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1273332/coronavirus-test-uk-government-website-crashed-latest-online-applications-covid-19? (https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1273332/coronavirus-test-uk-government-website-crashed-latest-online-applications-covid-19?)
"despite going live this morning, the government's website for applications has already crashed.

The plan was for up to 10 million key workers, and their households, to have the option of being tested, as they continue to battle against the infection on the front lines.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock revealed the plans to expand Britain's testing capability.

There was a daily allowance of 1,000 kits, including swabs and instructions."


So, 1,000 test kits for 10 million key workers ... 'GREAT'... 1: 10,000  :'(  Now we see how 'right' Rosco was nearly two weeks on from his original suggestion that  staff could and were being tested ..  :coffeeread:

The temporary over-stretch and explaining to andrewfi that us pointing us that ambulances WERE waiting to deliver patients wasn't a criticism.
[/quote]

What a crazy little man you are.  :ROFL:

Read what I posted above and think about it, a lot. You’re ill dude.  :GRAVE:

Btw - even quoting you is more hassle than it’s worth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 03:07:48 PM
Avhdb, as I recall the 1000 refers to antibody tests. There's a big problem with getting a reliable test. Not unique to the UK.

Hmm, WHO said, ( 23rd January )  "The UK is one of the first countries to have developed a world-leading test for the new Coronavirus"  ? ...

  'Well prepared' ... :'(


The government has said that they will not roll out a poor test and they are right.

Watch the video, again ,,,

Some countries are using unreliable tests on s 'better than nothing' basis but that's not good if it is being used as a gatekeeper for health workers returning to work.

Mr Hancock's predictions / promises are standing up well to scrutiny....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 03:13:27 PM


I provide a legitimate source with competent scientists commenting and you think it's conspiracy quality?  :'(

'Indeed', what was it you used 'live science' for as 'affirmation', last time ? ....

Now, your article was kite flying .. we simply do not know ..

I just have this feeling that the 'bash China' ( esp in the USA) is more about let's 'deflect from our govt's mistakes' ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on April 28, 2020, 03:20:35 PM
Well it looks like things around here in the rural midwest will start to get back to normal on May 1st.

By September 30 this all will be just a bad memory and the stock market will be back over 29,000 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 28, 2020, 11:17:19 PM
Well it looks like things around here in the rural midwest will start to get back to normal on May 1st.

By September 30 this all will be just a bad memory and the stock market will be back over 29,000

That will be another 'Trampu' 'miracle', given all you'll likely be doing is generating a new spike.. in virus caes, not stock market numbers ((
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 29, 2020, 12:12:50 AM
In an effort top head off possible meat shortage it appears that Trump is wanting meat processing plants to stay open and to get closed plants on line as fast as possible in spite of safety concerns. I hope farmers remember this because a democrat would not done this and let the farmers go broke.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-orders-meat-and-poultry-processing-plants-to-stay-open-during-coronavirus/ar-BB13kBRq?li=BBnb7Kz

This is a very good read about the virus does have an airborne possibly beyond what was first thought.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/airborne-coronavirus-detected-in-wuhan-hospitals/ar-BB13kV91
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 29, 2020, 06:47:56 AM
This is a very good read about the virus does have an airborne possibly beyond what was first thought.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/airborne-coronavirus-detected-in-wuhan-hospitals/ar-BB13kV91

Yesterday or maybe last week I read a report translated from Italian that the virus can attach itself to far smaller airborne particulate than previously thought. If this is true, this reality is BAD news.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 29, 2020, 07:00:17 AM
I just have this feeling that the 'bash China' ( esp in the USA) is more about let's 'deflect from our govt's mistakes' ...

ms, while I recognize that posters of RUA can not measure to your level of expertise. Further there is no politician or government leader who has the mastery and common sense to conquer the virus as you posses.

It would have been helpful to mere politicians and inhabitants of earth if the Chinese had not been a bunch of arrogant, deceitful and manipulative douche bags and been honest. Even today if one studies the numbers being reported one sees the reality they are outright self serving mythomaniacs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 29, 2020, 08:09:49 AM

I just have this feeling that the 'bash China' ( esp in the USA) is more about let's 'deflect from our govt's mistakes' ...

ms, while I recognize that posters of RUA can not measure to your level of expertise.
 

Whatever THAT is supposed to 'mean' .. My 'feeling' was an 'opinion'..

Further there is no politician or government leader who has the mastery and common sense to conquer the virus as you posses.

Are you are referring to 'my' video of the Mr. Hancock ( Our 'Health' Minister) looking particularly daft (admittedly with the benefits of hindsight, but he made some REALLY stupid 'assurances' )  please be clear. 

It would have been helpful to mere politicians and inhabitants of earth if the Chinese had not been a bunch of arrogant, deceitful and manipulative douche bags and been honest. Even today if one studies the numbers being reported one sees the reality they are outright self serving mythomaniacs.

1/ The Chinese numbers may even be relatively accurate given they might have suffered genomes that were earlier mutations - let's see what happens as they take their foot off the brakes.

2/ It seems they may not have been entirely open in the earliest days  - even penalising those who 'whistle-blew' - but we still do not know where / how the virus came into being

The most apt punishment will come from within..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 29, 2020, 11:09:05 AM


I provide a legitimate source with competent scientists commenting and you think it's conspiracy quality?  :'(

'Indeed', what was it you used 'live science' for as 'affirmation', last time ? ....

Now, your article was kite flying .. we simply do not know ..

I just have this feeling that the 'bash China' ( esp in the USA) is more about let's 'deflect from our govt's mistakes' ...

YOU don't know but there are scientists out there that do know. Some of the Chinese scientists in that lab are well known in the Scientific community. Chinese scientists and journalists have gone missing, most likely because they talked or know something. Their colleagues in the Western world tell their governments certain Chinese scientists and journalists they know have gone missing. Trump wants to know where those people are and wants to investigate. Why all the resistance to learning the truth?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 29, 2020, 11:30:40 AM

1/ The Chinese numbers may even be relatively accurate given they might have suffered genomes that were earlier mutations - let's see what happens as they take their foot off the brakes.

2/ It seems they may not have been entirely open in the earliest days  - even penalising those who 'whistle-blew' - but we still do not know where / how the virus came into being

The most apt punishment will come from within..

Curious ms do you and Andrew consume the same libation that makes you so ignorant. At least sometimes Andrew can learn, something that you are adverse to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 29, 2020, 01:32:52 PM
Quote
People mistakenly believed the outfits could purify poisonous air.

A Norfolk Police spokesman said: "Officers have been made aware of an individual who was seen walking around the Hellesdon area wearing a plague outfit.

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-plague-doctor-hellesdon-094550603.html

The grim reaper is looking for you all.   :ROFL:   :GRAVE:



Quote
In addition to exceeding the Vietnam War toll, the U.S. toll for the coronavirus tops the number of deaths from seasonal flu in recent years, except for the 2017-2018 season, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html.

Flu deaths range from a low of 12,000 in the 2011-2012 season to a high of 61,000 during 2017-2018.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-coronavirus-cases-approach-one-101716352.html

The virus has killed more than the total numbers from the Vietnam war.  That took about ten years.  This war has taken about just over two months!   (:)  Beware to the virus 'Tet offensive'.     :fighting0025: :LIMP: :sick0002: :trainwreck: It's closing in the seasonal flu record number and will push to reach the 1918 number.  :scared0005: :sick0012: :snivel: :hidechair: :o
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 29, 2020, 03:42:42 PM
Quote
The sharp increase means the UK’s toll makes it the second worst hit country in Europe, based on each nation’s official reporting of deaths, and globally ranks behind only the US’s total, which is above 50,000, and Italy.


“Every death from COVID-19 is a tragedy.
“Tracking the daily death count is vital to help us understand the impact of the disease.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-uk-toll-deaths-161613419.html

It seems that many are dying outside of hospitals.  So hospital reported numbers are inaccurate.  Back during the Black Death, there were no "hospitals", so the estimated numbers are also suspect.   :-\

Quote
The primary function of medieval hospitals was to worship to God.
   :bow: :saint:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on April 29, 2020, 04:21:11 PM
Quote
The lawsuit, which claims $200 billion in compensation from the People’s Republic of China details that it is for the “loss of lives, economic strangulation, trauma, hardship, social disorientation, mental torture and disruption of the normal daily existence of people in Nigeria.

https://www.latintimes.com/nigeria-prepares-file-200bn-worth-lawsuit-against-china-over-covid-19-economic-damage-458056

Based on the last reported figures, Nigeria has just 44 deaths so far.  I expect a ton of lawsuits to be forthcoming into the next decade.   :chuckle: tiphat :-X :money: (:) >:( :biggrin: :GRRRR: :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 30, 2020, 01:02:50 AM


1/ The Chinese numbers may even be relatively accurate given they might have suffered genomes that were earlier mutations - let's see what happens as they take their foot off the brakes.

2/ It seems they may not have been entirely open in the earliest days  - even penalising those who 'whistle-blew' - but we still do not know where / how the virus came into being

The most apt punishment will come from within..


Curious ms do you and Andrew consume the same libation that makes you so ignorant. At least sometimes Andrew can learn, something that you are adverse to

Good morning, AvHdb Well, I've re-read my post and your 'response' and wondered what point you're 'objecting' to ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2020, 04:11:47 AM
dcguyusa, I have written about this before on the forum. It isn't an issue just in the UK but in most countries. It is why estimates of deaths due to a particular cause are usually more accurate only afterward - when all the data can be combined.

Now, in the UK, deaths outside of hospitals are being added into the data flow but for daily counts, becasue it is the only up to date information, the hospital deaths are shown as the headline figure.

There's generally a lag in collation of deaths outside of hospitals - in the UK that can be up to about a month because of the way that deaths are registered.

So, everywhere, deaths are, right now, undercounted. The important figure though is the trend from hospitals becasue it tells us quickly and accurately what is happening.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 30, 2020, 04:42:39 AM
Russia lists nice even rounds their numbers up by the thousands. Of course it's not true.

...and again - check the numbers of (presumably) a) serious / critical and b) tested...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 30, 2020, 05:52:00 AM
dcguyusa, I have written about this before on the forum. It isn't an issue just in the UK but in most countries. It is why estimates of deaths due to a particular cause are usually more accurate only afterward - when all the data can be combined.

Now, in the UK, deaths outside of hospitals are being added into the data flow but for daily counts, becasue it is the only up to date information, the hospital deaths are shown as the headline figure.

There's generally a lag in collation of deaths outside of hospitals - in the UK that can be up to about a month because of the way that deaths are registered.

So, everywhere, deaths are, right now, undercounted. The important figure though is the trend from hospitals becasue it tells us quickly and accurately what is happening.

Andrew is correct, the U.K. and for that matter France have adjusted (changed) the method they use to report there 'numbers'.

In the United States some deaths and infections are now being counted twice! OK It is a small number of victims (less than 1000) total but still it is part of the statistic challenge. Only after the dead are buried and the world moves onto the next issue will a better understanding of the spread of the virus and numbers be known.

In Russia as I recall there is an almost cultural thing about so-called round numbers. The first Russian woman, an accountant, I dated tried to explain this to me but I was not focused on numbers at the time.  :-X

For now it is survive and plan for the medium term future.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2020, 06:48:33 AM
Yes, Russia is testing huge numbers of people and the results have been interesting but are, as time goes by, becoming consistent with what is being found elsewhere.

The ratio of asymptomatic infected to those with significant symptoms is huge. Much higher than had been thought until Russia started to see it.

The proportion of people infected in comparison to the number of tests is low. That means the Russians are on top of the infections unlike the UK or US, for example where the ratio is still very high.

Basically, what is happening there is that in Russia, testing is digging up cases in the community that would, in most countries, not be discovered. This, of course, increases the numbers of confirmed cases in comparison to countries where most testing is only carried out on people with significant symptoms or who are working in healthcare.

The Russian case seems to demonstrate that with good testing, tracking and consequent isolation of the infected, that a severe lockdown is not needed. Of course, Russia does, in some areas, have quite a strict lockdown regime but as I understand it the regime is decided at a regional level rather than nationally.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 30, 2020, 07:10:12 AM
To clarify a bit what I wrote above I do not think the numbers in countries such as the UK or the US are being deliberately under reported. Some is due to refinement of reporting and other times to realizing that this will present a clearer picture. These statistics are a daunting task. Such is not the case in my opinion when one looks at other countries. In some cases the countries are deliberately misleading the outside or there own population.

It is what it is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2020, 08:03:56 AM
I do not know which countries you are referring to when you talk about under reporting.

Many have suggested that China has been doing so. I rather doubt it. There's several reasons for that belief.
1) The numbers have been amended several times. Sometimes suggested as being indicative of purposeful under reporting when it was simply the same kind of adjustment as has been made in the USA, UK, Spain - in fact pretty much everywhere - and for the same reasons.
2) The management of the outbreak by the Chinese - they regarded the outbreak and its control as being a war. The outbreak was treated as such and huge efforts were made, mobilising both military and civil resources. There's no good reason to think that there would have been a change of mind and policy.
3) The numbers are internally consistent. By that, I mean that if we can estimate the R0, and we can, then we can estimate the curve of numbers and the numbers we see tend to be consistent with what we know of the rate of infection.
4) We can estimate, given the infectivity rate the effect of NOT controlling the infection. The numbers of deaths would be huge, vast, in a large population. Even more would be the effect upon the health system in the country. We are not seeing the effect of unfettered infections across the country now that restrictions are largely removed.
5) When infections started to rise again, the Chinese took immediate steps to control the source. If they were hiding infections to a significant degree they could not have hoped to control the effect of infections just by stopping the return of overseas Chinese to the country.

What we are seeing in China, right now, is the effect of the extensive, severe, lockdown that started in January. By comparison, what we see in most other countries is the effect of not taking the right steps soon enough. Even a few days delay makes a lot of difference at the known infectivity rate of this virus. Just one person infecting others unrestrictedly leads to around 40,000 infections at the end of a single month.

As an example, between the end of december and the date on which Trump blocked travel from China to the US there were some 750,000 people entering the USA from China! Worse yet, it seems that the first identified cases in the USA came not from China but from Italy! Just a handful of infected people will have been able to infect millions of people since their arrival and, because there was no testing or tracking, they were able, unwittingly, to infect huge numbers of people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 30, 2020, 01:30:55 PM
Yes, Russia is testing huge numbers of people and the results have been interesting but are, as time goes by, becoming consistent with what is being found elsewhere.

Mmm... I presume there are much more TESTS than PERSONS being tested. Because if one goes to the hospital after the first positive test, one can leave the hospital only after 2 (or even 3) negative tests. It means 3-4 tests per person.

Moreover, some state officials order to be tested nearly every day  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 30, 2020, 01:35:54 PM
The Russian (ex?) PM has it ...

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/04/30/covid-19-installs-a-new-acting-prime-minister-in-russia (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/04/30/covid-19-installs-a-new-acting-prime-minister-in-russia)

VVP has already seemingly replaced Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin ...


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on April 30, 2020, 01:40:10 PM
Russian prime minister has shared the fate of Boris Johnson:

https://news.mail.ru/incident/41616354/?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 30, 2020, 06:06:04 PM
Russian prime minister has shared the fate of Boris Johnson:

https://news.mail.ru/incident/41616354/?

Hopefully his outcome will like B. Johnson, be positive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2020, 06:25:24 PM
Olga, all the testing done everywhere assumes more tests than people. However, in Russia they did over 186,000 tests yesterday. The USA did more at over 236,000 - against a much larger population, of course.

However, the ratio I mentioned is still valid because of the commonality of the need for multiple tests for some people. As is the case with many data series, it is the trend that is the most important information point for people in our position without the full data that the boffins have, but if one makes comparisons of the ratios of positive tests to new cases we see that the USA has a ratio of 13%, the UK is at 7.2%, Estonia is at 1.5% and Russia is at 3.7%.

The ratio is important because it gives a broad measure of how effectively the virus is being controlled.

While we can expect that as more tests are carried out the numbers of infections will increase, but if the ratio is falling it suggests that the virus is becoming less prevalent. Russia and the US are now testing in the community and so are testing people who did not expect to have the virus or who thought they might but did not have clear symptoms.

In the UK, although testing is still concentrating upon cases presenting at hospitals and health workers and families, the testing by virtue of testing families is now reaching into the community for the first time so we will likely see further falls in the ratio. This is clearly expected by the government advisors based upon what they have been saying today.

A week or so ago, in the UK we were seeing around 25% and similar in the USA. Estonia is now ready to start lifting restrictions because they understand that they are on top of the infections now. The low ratio in Russia indicates that matters are not as bad as the propaganda suggests.

No epidemiologist me, but looking at the numbers, I am thinking that the ratio of tests to new cases will continue to fall, in Russia, in the coming days, but that the absolute numbers will continue to rise as testing continues to reach out into the community and tracking/tracing work continues.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2020, 06:28:34 PM

1/ The Chinese numbers may even be relatively accurate given they might have suffered genomes that were earlier mutations - let's see what happens as they take their foot off the brakes.

2/ It seems they may not have been entirely open in the earliest days  - even penalising those who 'whistle-blew' - but we still do not know where / how the virus came into being

The most apt punishment will come from within..

Curious ms do you and Andrew consume the same libation that makes you so ignorant. At least sometimes Andrew can learn, something that you are adverse to.

What are you going on about?

Yes, most of us learn, but you seem to have something specific in mind of which I am unaware.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 30, 2020, 07:31:58 PM

Russia still have ambulances in line to unload. Lots of medical personnel getting infected and two dozen hospitals had to get shut down.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/anger-rises-among-russias-doctors-as-coronavirus-hospitals-get-put-on-lockdown/ar-BB13qi9n?ocid=spartanntp

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 30, 2020, 08:02:53 PM

I live in a small town in Texas. We hardly had any cases of covid-19. Yesterday they started a drive thru testing open to anybody who wants it. The test only determines if the person had a mature case of the virus on the day of the testing. It is possible that a person develop a case of the virus that is not yet mature or the get the virus after the test to still have the virus. Also the test does produce some wrong results and can not be completely trusted. Hospitals usually test twice to confirm results of all in patients.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on April 30, 2020, 11:31:47 PM

Frontline essential workers are receiving an extra tax free payment of $1,000 for a 3 month period along with similar additional support similar to what the military receive, though I am unclear as to what the military receive extra to others.

Firstly, that was misleading, as the c.$1,000 was the total ..not the monthly 'bonus' offered.

Secondly, this nurse seems to suggest all is not well re work-place PPE and codes of practice and no bonus ...   I am well aware that health / care workers are not happy in the UK and other nations, too ..


Nurses have quit en masse from Russia's top coronavirus hospital in Moscow over poor working conditions and low wages, the investigative news website Open Media reported Monday.

A former nurse who said she quit the Kommunarka hospital after almost two months told the outlet that more than a dozen nursing staff had left in that period. They reportedly quit because they were denied clean protective gear, food and adequate accommodations, and were not paid bonuses promised by President Vladimir Putin.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 01, 2020, 12:12:08 AM
Quote
Up until last weekend, Lamar County looked like a contender to begin to reopen under the loosest restrictions. There had been just eight cases of coronavirus as of April 23, and six of those had recovered.

“And then, ‘boom,'" Paris Mayor Steve Clifford said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/then-boom-outbreak-shows-shaky-215051818.html

Everything looks like smooth sailing here on the S.S. Titanic and then BOOM.   (:) :scared0005: :hidechair: :sick0012: :duh: ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 01, 2020, 03:15:58 AM
If anyone, at this stage of the game, still thinks that locking down society is still the way to go, please have your head examined after you test for the virus. Thank you.  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 01, 2020, 03:28:56 AM
'Sure', Danchik ...

Why don't you make for Stockholm as soon as you can escape..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 01, 2020, 03:51:02 AM
Some people are taking being locked up, badly ..

https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-man-suspected-of-threating-virologist-released-on-bail/ (https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-man-suspected-of-threating-virologist-released-on-bail/)

Coronavirus: man suspected of threatening virologist released on bail

According to media reports, the man called Kostrikis on his work and mobile phones to threaten him after the scientist announced the US would launch a new vaccine against the coronavirus.

In one of the three phone calls he reportedly left a voicemail saying: “Mr Kostrikis, we know that you are an atheist and a Muslim and you work for the dark forces of Bill Gates, and if we hear you talk again about the vaccine, we will organise and erase you from the background.”


You'll remember our Wiz insists Cyprus is 'Greek' ..  hmm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 01, 2020, 04:19:20 AM
Coronavirus: Northumberland brewery gives away surplus beer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-52488571 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-52488571)

Bugger, Why did I move from Alnwick in 2014 ?

Now that might be an 'essential' journey ..


PS This poster hasn't touched a drop of alcohol since March 7th and will not drink until he can drink in the company of real .. not virtual,  company.. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 01, 2020, 06:12:26 AM
'Sure', Danchik ...

Why don't you make for Stockholm as soon as you can escape..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-x934In-Ao&t=2s
 
No evidence at all that self isolating or lockdowns work - none.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on May 01, 2020, 06:36:14 AM
Coronavirus: Northumberland brewery gives away surplus beer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-52488571 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-52488571)

Bugger, Why did I move from Alnwick in 2014 ?

Now that might be an 'essential' journey ..


PS This poster hasn't touched a drop of alcohol since March 7th and will not drink until he can drink in the company of real .. not virtual,  company..

You can wank with virtual company but having a drink is a no no!!!  :fighting0025:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 01, 2020, 07:29:43 AM

You can wank with virtual company but having a drink is a no no!!!  :fighting0025:

Only of those habits can really make you blind.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 01, 2020, 07:40:07 AM

No evidence at all that self isolating or lockdowns work - none.

Only for those with a selective filter as to ignoring scary stats..

Sweden's mortality rate is 10 times that of Finland, twice that of Norway and 4 times that of Denmark.

2/ Who still believes in 'herd immunity' from an ever mutating virus that seems to be able to infect once more.

3/ The Japanese took off the brakes ( they were social distancing...no lock down) and have a second spike.

Where is YOUR evidence that the Sweden tactic is 'working?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
'Sure', Danchik ...

Why don't you make for Stockholm as soon as you can escape..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-x934In-Ao&t=2s
 
No evidence at all that self isolating or lockdowns work - none.


WOW! You found one American doctor that disagrees with Dr. Fauci and millions of other American doctors. Finding somebody that disagrees with the majority isn't that difficult. Name one country that has kept their border open to all nations and haven't told their people to practice social distancing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 01, 2020, 08:21:14 AM
May be Belarus, BillyB?

Their borders might not be closed, but their neighbours certainly are...Even Russia's
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 01, 2020, 12:23:43 PM
Some people are taking being locked up, badly ..

https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-man-suspected-of-threating-virologist-released-on-bail/ (https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-man-suspected-of-threating-virologist-released-on-bail/)

Coronavirus: man suspected of threatening virologist released on bail

According to media reports, the man called Kostrikis on his work and mobile phones to threaten him after the scientist announced the US would launch a new vaccine against the coronavirus.

In one of the three phone calls he reportedly left a voicemail saying: “Mr Kostrikis, we know that you are an atheist and a Muslim and you work for the dark forces of Bill Gates, and if we hear you talk again about the vaccine, we will organise and erase you from the background.”


You'll remember our Wiz insists Cyprus is 'Greek' ..  hmm

This appears  tied to the conspiracy theory about Bill Gates and his microchip vaccine.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-id2020/
 :coffeeread:

Quote
you are an atheist and a Muslim
  Trying to cover all of your bases?    :ROFL: (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on May 01, 2020, 01:40:09 PM
My Open Letter to Ohio Governor DeWine:

I believe Governor DeWine has made a horrible decision extending the quarantine until the end of May. I'm no doctor or scientist however with the benefit of hindsight, one can easily see what strategies have worked and what haven't worked; especially when taking the economic situation under consideration.

It's pretty clear the Swedes had the right idea about how to combat the disease without crippling their economy. They understood that COVID-19 negatively impacted those between 60-75 and seriously negatively impacted those 75 and older. They also realized that the death rate for people age 1-59 was significantly less than 1%. So they wisely expended their resources with disease prevention in the former group and sent the later group back to work. They didn't close and restaurants or businesses. And it worked - extraordinarily well.

Lets compare Sweden with Michigan. While both have roughly the same population, Michigan has instituted the most draconian social distancing programs in the USA. Sweden one of the least. Let's see how they compare. Sweden with a population of approximately 10.23 million had 21,520 cases and 2,653 deaths. Michigan with a population of approximately 9.987 million had 41,379 cases and 3,789 deaths - 30% less.

In hindsight, it's pretty clear that the news media and politicians over-reacted to the situation which caused panic in our population and financial markets with the end result caused our government to needlessly expend $5 billion in handouts and benefits to workers and businesses they themselves closed down.

Instead of continuing the ruse, politicians should recognize their mistakes and put the population and economy back to work as quickly as possible. Step up protocols and preventative measures where they're actually needed in nursing homes and retirement centers.

Governor DeWine, I doubt you'll actually read this; but you should.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on May 01, 2020, 02:16:49 PM
Meanwhile in the live free or die state of New Hampshire:

Update: Friday, May 1, 3:08 p.m.

State epidemiologist Ben Chan announced nine additional deaths from COVID-19, and 164 new positive test results on Friday.

There have now been 81 deaths and a total of 2,310 confirmed cases of coronavirus in New Hampshire. Chan said the nine additional deaths were associated with long-term care centers or nursing homes.

Chan provided the update at a news conference in Concord with Gov. Chris Sununu, who announced an amended stay-at-home order that will remain in effect until May 31. The previous order was due to expire May 4. 

The governor said steps to reopen parts of the economy are supported by data and state health officials. Sununu encouraged residents to continue with social distancing and wearing cloth face coverings when in public.

Seacoast beaches and parks will remain closed, Sununu said.

Chan said the state's health care system remains stable, and the state is not near requiring the use of "surge" capacity centers that have been established to handle a potential major increase in patients.

- NHPR Staff

This is a developing story and this blog post will be soon updated.

Lonza making potential vaccine
Update: Friday, May 1, 1:56 p.m.

A Portsmouth company will help make a potential new vaccine for COVID-19 beginning this summer.

The Lonza Biologics manufacturing facility at Pease International Tradeport is teaming up with Massachusetts-based Moderna on the project.

Moderna is one of many companies worldwide working on vaccines and other treatments for the new coronavirus. The Moderna vaccine is currently undergoing government-led clinical trials.

Lonza has agreed to make up to a billion doses a year of the medication.

The Swiss company has around a thousand workers in Portsmouth, making it one of the city's top employers...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 01, 2020, 03:27:17 PM
Quote
"I had almost never seen anyone die of the flu." Neither had any of the colleagues he called around the country. So he did some research, and this is what he found:

The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are based on assumptions of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported. In the last six flu seasons, the CDC's reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths — that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus — has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620.

So in an apples-to-apples comparison, matching the second week of April's COVID-19 deaths to the worst week of the past seven flu seasons, "the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/flu-deaths-were-counted-covid-053449918.html

Quote
I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/

Remember that statistics always lie and history always repeats itself.   :-X :nod:

How about this regarding the death counts of over 200,000+ so far?  Nobody has died from infections.  They have all died from "natural causes".  The causes are:

a) Heart attack/stroke

b) Asthma/COPD/Pneumonia

c) Renal failure

d) Seizures/epilepsy/shock



Homo Sapiens is suffering an endemic (not pandemic) malfunction.   (:)   :scared0005: :-X :eeekk: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 01, 2020, 07:54:25 PM
remdesivir is approve for treatment of hospitalized patients with covid-19.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gilead-gets-emergency-fda-authorization-for-remdesivir-to-treat-coronavirus-trump-says/ar-BB13ucz9?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 01, 2020, 08:09:49 PM
remdesivir is approve for treatment of hospitalized patients with covid-19.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gilead-gets-emergency-fda-authorization-for-remdesivir-to-treat-coronavirus-trump-says/ar-BB13ucz9?li=BBnb7Kz

There are multiple drugs being tested to treat the virus.

https://theconversation.com/we-found-and-tested-47-old-drugs-that-might-treat-the-coronavirus-results-show-promising-leads-and-a-whole-new-way-to-fight-covid-19-136789

Quote
This is potentially a very important finding, but, and I cannot stress this enough, more tests are needed to determine if cough syrup with this ingredient should be avoided by someone who has COVID-19.

From the article taking dextromethorphan (used in cough syrup) helps the virus to replicate.   :-\

Quote
Another interesting thing to note is that hydroxychloroquine – the controversial drug that has shown mixed results in treating COVID-19 – also binds to the SigmaR1 and SigmaR2 receptors. But based on our experiments in both labs, we do not think hydroxychloroquine binds to them efficiently.

Researchers have long known that hydroxychloroquine easily binds to receptors in the heart and can cause damage. Because of these differences in binding tendencies, we don’t think hydroxychloroquine is a reliable treatment. Ongoing clinical trials should soon clarify these unknowns.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 01, 2020, 08:15:53 PM
Quote
Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro has downplayed the virus for weeks and even encouraged protesters calling for state-issued lockdowns to be lifted.

But Bolsonaro seems unfazed by the death toll, The New York Times reported.

"So what? Sorry, but what do you want me to do?" he said this week. "My [middle] name is Messiah, but I can't work miracles."

https://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-coronavirus-no-nationwide-lockdown-results-are-grim-2020-5

Brazil has a large number of residents living in poverty.  The "baby boomer eradicator" is also useful as a solution to the poverty situation.   (:) :sick0012: :biggrin: :evilgrin0002:   :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2020, 09:25:49 PM

America been averaging 2000 coronavirus deaths a day for the last 3 weeks. That makes it the number 1 killer of Americans daily by far. Just think if we didn't take any action.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2020, 10:02:46 PM
remdesivir is approve for treatment of hospitalized patients with covid-19.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gilead-gets-emergency-fda-authorization-for-remdesivir-to-treat-coronavirus-trump-says/ar-BB13ucz9?li=BBnb7Kz

It's got an emergency authorization like hydroxychloroquine did. Hydroxychloroquine turned out to be a bust. There's still no effective, safe and proven treatment for COVID-19. It's going to take time and many more tests before one can be declared a treatment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 01:16:27 AM

WOW! You found one American doctor that disagrees with Dr. Fauci and millions of other American doctors.

Are you aware that Dr Fauci in 2015 has approved a huge finance package for the Wuhan Bio search Lab, where the USA and China together were searching for various viruses because the USA had shut down its Bio Lab in... Hondric (not sure of the spelling ) because it was leaking!

Check the US Magazine "Economist Intelligence Unit  February 2019" to find the article!

That explains why both Trump and China are blaming each other..... you were both at it creating bioweapons ....It appears China managed to control the spread of the virus and now is working in almost full capacity. The US, on the other hand, is counting the dead bodies, because of your incompetent Mafia Boss.


America been averaging 2000 coronavirus deaths a day for the last 3 weeks. That makes it the number 1 killer of Americans daily by far. Just think if we didn't take any action.
YOU SAID IT!

Take a look at the numbers for Greece, it is a small country but using two existing medicine, Hydroxychloroquine and Remdesivir mαnaged to help a lot of people to recover from the Covid19 infection.

Pretty soon will go swimming.......in the hot sea!

It's not the perfect solution but it helped to keep the death numbers down......    and Yesterday the Greeks were out celebrating  the 1st of May wearing Masks and Keeping the distances!

(https://www.candiadoc.gr/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/img_4166-1024x768-1.jpg)

How they honored Labor Day in the cities of Greece!

Yesterday I was listening this Radio Interview.....where a research professor of Athens University, George Romanos, has found plenty of evidence in your USA and other various official Magazines.... about the role played by your country in the biowars against other nations. He provides the evidence without making any political comments.....and COVID 19 it's not a new virus made from dogs and bats as the US claimed.!

Unfortunately it does not provide a Transcript and it's very long to copy and translate the text.


PRODUCTION OF VIRUSES & BIO-TERRORISM (WITH OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE FROM THE LARGEST SCIENTIFIC ENVIRONMENTS AND MAGAZINES)

The journals of the Global Scientific Community NATURE and SCIENCE are the reference points for the validity and legitimacy of any formal research. So when it comes to publish research and especially from specific journals, there could be NO higher source of validity. This is for those who ask for "proof" and question without looking for the sources of the information. George Romanos

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 02, 2020, 05:52:05 AM
Wiz, is back pushing HCQ which those with a clue know was not the panacea suggested ...

One can only wonder at the reasoning of those still 'promoting' it ..


Remdesivir... ?  Unproven and certainly not the 'reason' for low Greek cases ..  It wasn't the tourist season s a bigger clue.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 07:51:54 AM
Wiz, is back pushing HCQ which those with a clue know was not the panacea suggested ...

One can only wonder at the reasoning of those still 'promoting' it ..


Remdesivir... ?  Unproven and certainly not the 'reason' for low Greek cases ..  It wasn't the tourist season s a bigger clue.

MOby

As usual you are bored, out of your mind, spending 24 hours on the boards.... and SKYPE .....playing with your Tu Tu, don't really read anything carefully before opening your gob and you start spouting malakies (Rubbish).

For your information, Greece was one of the very first countries that stopped flights from Italy ASAP when the news come out..... and they only had an infection from a woman who comeback to Greece from Italy!

Did you hear the news that Many Greeks were stranded in UK because their flights with British Airlines were canceled their flight well after the Greek Aegean Airline stopped.

Probably Greece has crap National Health Service but I can assure you it has plenty of good doctors.  For your information our British NHS is employing 4000 Greek Doctors.

Regarding the Unproven Medicine...... we were explained by a Greek professor from Stamford University, that Greek doctors only in certain cases offer these medicine for very short time.....Check the number of how many have recovered!

Why do you thing Remdesivir medicine got, "an emergency authorization like hydroxychloroquine did, as BillyB said?

[attach=1]

Finally the Tourist season has not yet started.........because of no flights .......and Greece Hardly have any winter tourist arrivals.

 :snivel:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 02, 2020, 09:45:52 AM
It appears China managed to control the spread of the virus and now is working in almost full capacity.


I buy a lot of stuff out of China and they certainly aren't working at full capacity. Most venders I can buy from aren't selling at this time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 02, 2020, 10:07:43 AM
It appears China managed to control the spread of the virus and now is working in almost full capacity.


I buy a lot of stuff out of China and they certainly aren't working at full capacity. Most venders I can buy from aren't selling at this time.

My brother is a small manufacturer of marine hardware, funky injection plastic things. For a while, he has been trying to get a specific clothing article and would like to order 500 units initially, that he can finish here. He can not find a manufacturer that is running in China. Both in the Carolina's and Vietnam they are looking at a 2 to 3 month delivery window presently.

On the other side for an English garment maker, he has been unable to ship a component to China until this week for there product. The factory has only now has come back into production. Both items are niche oriented, but before there were multiple sources available in China. It seems not anymore. 

The after-effects of Corona will be felt for a long time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:13:04 AM
Every factory I deal with in China is now working again. And Taiwan never closed at all.

One factory refused my order mid pandemic, but I would have been a new customer. They said they were only able to serve their biggest existing customers at that time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 02, 2020, 10:22:39 AM
No problem for me ordering from China, if air-freighting...

Electronic stuff weighs ball.

The Chinese are chasing us for orders...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 02, 2020, 11:11:15 AM
No problem for me ordering from China, if air-freighting...

Electronic stuff weighs ball.

The Chinese are chasing us for orders...

Not just air. The KN95 masks I have came in by air recently because they're small and light. But I've also a container clearing now, and a pal of mine had three containers in yesterday. These are his and my first containers since the virus. But it shows us China is open again.

Av's brother might be struggling as 500 seems a very low MOQ for clothing to me. Unless a stock item.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 02, 2020, 11:42:59 AM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 03:12:30 PM
It appears China managed to control the spread of the virus and now is working in almost full capacity.


I buy a lot of stuff out of China and they certainly aren't working at full capacity. Most venders I can buy from aren't selling at this time.

Well BillyB.... I am not a Trader but  a poor pensioner.... and still can buy certain cheap stauff from over there on Ebay as I can wait for 10 days to arrive by post!

But as you can see others who's job is to import various items from China for their business ....... have no problem.

Manny was lucky to receive those 4000 Masks .... because the American agents .... didn't noticed them to move in and highjack them, like they did with the plane destined for Germany, with million of Masks.

Bloody Greeks, after receiving 3 million of Masks from China ...... with Government help..... build 2 factories in Central Greece and produce enough numbers of them...... to avoid the US agents attention.....as Greece is only a small country!

So BillyB it's the US and you Mafia president who are doing a brilliant Job ... latest results:

[attach=1]

While everybody else's numbers go down... the USA  numbers are still going up..... and you want to know why?

Because your Health System ..... Is Private ........ and you don't protect or care for your Citizens....... You are just a CRIMINAL GANGSTER COUNTRY and nothing else!

(http://www.yannis.me.uk/PHOTOS/E/Emotikons_RUA/have_nice_day.gif)


[attach=2]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 02, 2020, 04:19:57 PM
Manny was lucky to receive those 4000 Masks .... because the American agents .... didn't noticed them to move in and highjack them, like they did with the plane destined for Germany, with million of Masks.

Its the French that were stealing them. And also quietly the Brits. But the Chinese know how to get them in.  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 02, 2020, 04:24:52 PM
Interesting to compare COVID-19 deaths as a percentage of population :


The UK stats are broken down into England, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#countries (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#countries)

0.045 percent of population died of virus in England

0.03 percent of population died of virus in Wales

0.0218 percent of population died of virus in Scotland

0.019 percent of population died of virus in N.Ireland

                      0.0669 percent of the population in Belgium
                      0.0536 percent died of virus in Spain
Comparison : 0.0446 percent died of virus in Italy
                      0.0379 percent died in France
                      0.0291 NL
                      0.027 in Sweden
                      0.0196 percent  died of virus in USA
                      0.009 percent in Canada
                      0.0082 Denmark
                      0.008 in Germany
                      0.00397 Finland
                      0.00389 Norway
                      0.0008 in Russia
                      0.00037 percent in 'Oz
                      0.0004 in N.Zealand

So, England is third only to Belgium and Spain ... 

Russia ten times less than Germany ? .. 


Sorry, if your nation isn't included ...                     
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 04:34:49 PM
Manny was lucky to receive those 4000 Masks .... because the American agents .... didn't noticed them to move in and highjack them, like they did with the plane destined for Germany, with million of Masks.

Its the French that were stealing them. And also quietly the Brits. But the Chinese know how to get them in.  :)

Everybody is at it but ...... The Brits always do things quietly ..... you don't have to advertise it!  :biggrin:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 06:32:23 PM
9 Simulations, Drills and Laws that
* Planned and Prepared for the Coronavirus *

(https://397145-1250082-raikfcquaxqncofqfm.stackpathdns.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/prepared-for-the-coronavirus.jpg)

They planned and prepared for the coronavirus… decades in advance. The infrastructure has been clearly set up over the last 2+ decades to ensure that when Operation Coronavirus went live, all the pieces would be in place to bamboozle and enslave people, forcing them into a place where they would gladly accept or beg for mass vaccination. Operation Coronavirus resembles a false flag op in many ways. One similarity is that it was meticulously planned for long in advance.

Astute readers may notice another similarity: the phenomenon of the drill “going live” (we are in a “live exercise” as Mike Pompeo said) (https://thefreedomarticles.com/live-exercise-pompeo-lets-slip-covid-19-pandemic/).

Mike Pompeo calls Coronavirus pandemic an Exercise live on CNN


This crops up in so many false flag attacks, i.e. when the exact scenario being trained and prepared for in an exercise occurs in the real world. Below is a list of various simulations, drills, exercises, papers, scenarios and laws that all in some way anticipated and prepared for the coronavirus pandemic.

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE HERE: (https://thefreedomarticles.com/9-simulations-drills-laws-prepared-for-the-coronavirus/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 02, 2020, 07:13:15 PM
[
While everybody else's numbers go down... the USA  numbers are still going up..... and you want to know why?

Because your Health System ..... Is Private ........ and you don't protect or care for your Citizens....... You are just a CRIMINAL GANGSTER COUNTRY and nothing else!

(Attachment Link)

Yea the number are going up. Housing market here on fire. You can not find a used home and there are no new one. Yacht sales on fire. We have a shortage dockage for mega yachts where they are experiencing record sales. People are having to wait over a year or more for delivery from back factories. There are renting slips to be sure they can get one when the boat comes in. In this area no available slips for your mega yacht and no available housing. Life is just great in a criminal gangster country if you already have a slip for you boat and own your home other wise not so good. Eat in portion of restaurant still closed and shopping malls till closed. They are scheduled to open in two weeks.   

Yes there are a few hot spot in a few northern cities in a couple of run down neighborhoods does not effect most of us. People here are getting huge befits for being off work are enjoying outdoor activities with all the time on their hands. The weather is mild and the sun has been shining in many ways. You should come and enjoy life in a criminal gangster country if you heart can take it.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 07:54:24 PM
[
While everybody else's numbers go down... the USA  numbers are still going up..... and you want to know why?

Because your Health System ..... Is Private ........ and you don't protect or care for your Citizens....... You are just a CRIMINAL GANGSTER COUNTRY and nothing else!

(Attachment Link)

Yea the number are going up. Housing market here on fire. You can not find a used home and there are no new one. Yacht sales on fire. We have a shortage dockage for mega yachts where they are experiencing record sales. People are having to wait over a year or more for delivery from back factories. There are renting slips to be sure they can get one when the boat comes in. In this area no available slips for your mega yacht and no available housing. Life is just great in a criminal gangster country if you already have a slip for you boat and own your home other wise not so good. Eat in portion of restaurant still closed and shopping malls till closed. They are scheduled to open in two weeks.   

Yes there are a few hot spot in a few northern cities in a couple of run down neighborhoods does not effect most of us. People here are getting huge befits for being off work are enjoying outdoor activities with all the time on their hands. The weather is mild and the sun has been shining in many ways. You should come and enjoy life in a criminal gangster country if you heart can take it.

I think, like somebody else told you.....you are rambling.

May I remind you that I have been to USA, mostly in Florida several  times.... NY and also Los Angeles. Yes I liked some places there but not to live!  :P

While in Florida I have travelled extensively around  and have seen too many places but despite that I was young and adventurous ........never liked your kind of life Sir!

It is impersonal, wooden and unwelcome, ........ a joke and not my cup of coffee!

I have almost been in every country of Europe.....several times in some.....but if you ever fancy travelling I suggest you visit Greece before visiting your friend in Ukraine. Then we can talk again!

Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 02, 2020, 09:03:45 PM
Please note, Texan77 is a visitor from a parallel universe where the American Dream does not smoulder as the embers of empire are furiously fanned by a no-longer independent Federal Reserve Bank.

In his world, pending home sales didn't fall by almost 21% in April. https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/29/pending-home-sales-down-20point8percent-in-march.html

Unemployment claims did not reach 30 million in April 2020 to give an unemployment rate of between 15-20%. https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/28/us-unemployment-rate-could-hit-15percent-20percent-peak-in-april-moodys.html

Luxury boat sales are growing at 8% year on year in Texan77's universe. In our world, sales have sunk, builders are closing, production is ceasing and workers losing their jobs. https://eu.tcpalm.com/story/sports/fishing-boating/2020/04/02/florida-coronavirus-boat-sales-boat-building-pursuit-maverick-shutter-plants/5094290002/

Things are pretty good in Texan77's world. But that world is in his imagination. I bet the guys at Yamaha and Brunswick who no longer have jobs building marine engines might not share his fantasies. The hardworking men and women who used to work at Pursuit Boats and Viking Yachts would probably wonder how somebody could be as poorly informed, nay delusional, as our hero.

Where do you people get this stuff from?
Is there a special newspaper for special people?
Do you really believe the rubbish that you spout?

 :'(

This is the start of the problems, not the end. It's not even the beginning of the end of the crisis. It might be the end of the beginning - if you are lucky and things go 'well'.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 02, 2020, 09:44:05 PM

So BillyB it's the US and you Mafia president who are doing a brilliant Job ... latest results:

(Attachment Link)


Wiz, you should go work for a State controlled media. You cropped out the deaths per million in each nation on purpose. You know very well America has low deaths per million compared to major European nations but you want to tell a story on how bad it is over here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 02, 2020, 10:04:42 PM
Billy and Texan

I suggest you talk to Andrew who has more tolerance than me.

No matter what any posts........you lot are Brain dead........you sound and talk like zombies and I am tired reading your crap posts.

I am going back to bed..... tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 02, 2020, 10:32:05 PM
Please note, Texan77 is a visitor from a parallel universe where the American Dream does not smoulder as the embers of empire are furiously fanned by a no-longer independent Federal Reserve Bank.

In his world, pending home sales didn't fall by almost 21% in April. https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/29/pending-home-sales-down-20point8percent-in-march.html

Things are pretty good in Texan77's world. But that world is in his imagination. I bet the guys at Yamaha and Brunswick who no longer have jobs building marine engines might not share his fantasies. The hardworking men and women who used to work at Pursuit Boats and Viking Yachts would probably wonder how somebody could be as poorly informed, nay delusional, as our hero.


I own a boat. I went to work on it this. This info come from the local dealers who are talking to me. The guy sold 5 new mega yachts. I watch local housing because I looking to buy. We have maybe have 25 per cent of the listing available that we had before the virus and prices are higher. I do not care what you reading I can not buy any thing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 03, 2020, 01:02:46 AM
Andrew is ( as is so often ) busted, once more ..

Orders  / enquiries for c. million dollar yachts, and more, went UP .. demand to charter getaways during the lockdowns went through the roof, in March and in nations like Sweden, Danes like F1 driver Kev Magnussen made for Swedish waters to ride out the dark days.

Germany, Denmark and N.Zealand have loosened rules on boating to allow boaties to check in and out of marinas. launch their new boats and get sailing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 03, 2020, 03:06:22 AM
'Sure', Danchik ...

Why don't you make for Stockholm as soon as you can escape..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-x934In-Ao&t=2s
 
No evidence at all that self isolating or lockdowns work - none.


WOW! You found one American doctor that disagrees with Dr. Fauci and millions of other American doctors. Finding somebody that disagrees with the majority isn't that difficult. Name one country that has kept their border open to all nations and haven't told their people to practice social distancing.
Billy, you're the last person, well besides Moby, who I will listen to about anything. I stopped reading your posts (pa)ages ago and I mostly ignore the walking argument.

This doctor just happens to be the last one of many who has questioned the lockdown. If you want to believe your people, go right ahead.

Never in the history of man have we gone to any lockdown to fight a respiratory virus, never. Why is that? Because that is not how you combat them; a long established well' known fact.

If you listen to his data as well as scientists from Scandinavia and Europe) you and the walking argument would have heard that Sweden's numbers are slightly higher than its neighbor Norway, but much lower than Italy and Spain all of whom have locked down.

You will never be mistaken for a smart guy other than in your own head. Stick to what you now, digging holes in the dirt.

Respiratory illness (virus) have always, ALWAYS been dealt with by herd immunity and then they eventually burn out. That's what they do. This is number 19 and it's 99% the same as the other 18 before it.

This lockdown order came from Imperial college and some other criminal by the name of Dr Neil Ferguson. 2.2 million was their initial prediction for deaths in the US, now 60K. 500k in the UK, now 20K. 

The problem is that no one wants to come clean about this and made to look like a fool for crushing economies around the world. Instead, they double down knowing sheep like you and the walking argument will hide behind your mommy's skirt.

Maybe a little research into your boy Fauci is in order.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/fauci-fun-facts-dr-faucis-aids-predictions-also-way-off-mark/

https://truthbits.blog/2020/03/21/dr-fauci-globalist-snake-oil-salesman/

https://trendingrightwing.com/dr-fauci-was-just-exposed-on-how-deep-his-corruption-goes/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/john-f-kennedy-jr-ron-paul-come-out-against-fauci-gates/

hell here are just a few detailing his corruption, but the list never ends.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 03, 2020, 03:17:32 AM
As far as the US economy is concerned, well, thee 3rd quarter is where the rubber will hit the road.

You can spin 25-30 million unemployed any way you want, but if you think that doesn't mean a huge contraction going forward then there's no helping you.

All you see now is the tip of the iceberg. However, there's still time to salvage things, well, unless, the sheep have their way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 03, 2020, 03:41:23 AM
I find myself agreeing with BillyB here, which is not a normal pastime   :chuckle:

Danchik is still busy finding wacko alt right 'evidence' and ignoring FACTS like:  in Sweden one is TEN times more likely more likely to die of the virus than Finland or  Norway to which it is attached, physically.  THREE times than in Denmark.

'Immunity' is not guaranteed having been infected.


Unless Danchik has escaped to a Dacha he is locked-down and needing a pass to leave home.

This might explain his inability to see reason
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Omega1982 on May 03, 2020, 04:23:10 AM
Actually dan digging holes is what most hispanics do in California so next time you point a finger at someone remember four are pointing right back at you. The insults and lack of respect here are unacceptable. Billy is an honest worker unlike some.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 03, 2020, 05:46:55 AM
Actually dan digging holes is what most hispanics do in California so next time you point a finger at someone remember four are pointing right back at you. The insults and lack of respect here are unacceptable. Billy is an honest worker unlike some.
come down off your soap box. I don't need you lecturing me on anything. Is it any wonder you're still looking for a woman with stupid remarks like the above.

I don't need advice from Billy, nor from you. The guy talked to me like I can't read or haven't poured over countless articles from doctors and scientists and has been regurgitating the MSM narrative ad hominem since page 1 even though the science has changed much since then. That's insulting. If you want to believe him, that's on you. 

As usual that point flew right over your head.

And actually, most Hispanics I know work on farms picking fruit and veggies, or they work in factories, etc. Only 1 in 4.5 work in construction. I lived in California, have you ever been through the dust bowl (San Joaquin Valley)? But more to the point, why is being a Hispanic even an issue? WTF?

Maybe you'd like to tell me how many hispanic women work in construction? as if it matters.

Nevertheless, what does him being a hard worker have to do with science and the corona virus?

If you want to learn about how viruses work, who are you going to ask, a construction worker or a scientist? well, judging by some of your previous questions, I'm sure you'll go with construction worker.


 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 03, 2020, 06:38:19 AM
'Sure', Danchik ...

Why don't you make for Stockholm as soon as you can escape..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-x934In-Ao&t=2s
 
No evidence at all that self isolating or lockdowns work - none.


WOW! You found one American doctor that disagrees with Dr. Fauci and millions of other American doctors. Finding somebody that disagrees with the majority isn't that difficult. Name one country that has kept their border open to all nations and haven't told their people to practice social distancing.
Billy, you're the last person, well besides Moby, who I will listen to about anything. I stopped reading your posts (pa)ages ago and I mostly ignore the walking argument.

This doctor just happens to be the last one of many who has questioned the lockdown. If you want to believe your people, go right ahead.

Never in the history of man have we gone to any lockdown to fight a respiratory virus, never. Why is that? Because that is not how you combat them; a long established well' known fact.

If you listen to his data as well as scientists from Scandinavia and Europe) you and the walking argument would have heard that Sweden's numbers are slightly higher than its neighbor Norway, but much lower than Italy and Spain all of whom have locked down.

You will never be mistaken for a smart guy other than in your own head. Stick to what you now, digging holes in the dirt.

Respiratory illness (virus) have always, ALWAYS been dealt with by herd immunity and then they eventually burn out. That's what they do. This is number 19 and it's 99% the same as the other 18 before it.

This lockdown order came from Imperial college and some other criminal by the name of Dr Neil Ferguson. 2.2 million was their initial prediction for deaths in the US, now 60K. 500k in the UK, now 20K. 

The problem is that no one wants to come clean about this and made to look like a fool for crushing economies around the world. Instead, they double down knowing sheep like you and the walking argument will hide behind your mommy's skirt.

Maybe a little research into your boy Fauci is in order.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/fauci-fun-facts-dr-faucis-aids-predictions-also-way-off-mark/

https://truthbits.blog/2020/03/21/dr-fauci-globalist-snake-oil-salesman/

https://trendingrightwing.com/dr-fauci-was-just-exposed-on-how-deep-his-corruption-goes/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/john-f-kennedy-jr-ron-paul-come-out-against-fauci-gates/

hell here are just a few detailing his corruption, but the list never ends.

THANKS FOR YOUR ABOVE COMMENTS which answers my question posted earlier about Dr. Fauci.


WOW! You found one American doctor that disagrees with Dr. Fauci and millions of other American doctors.

Are you aware that Dr Fauci in 2015 has approved a huge finance package for the Wuhan Bio search Lab, where the USA and China together were searching for various viruses because the USA had shut down its Bio Lab in... Hondric (not sure of the spelling ) because it was leaking!

Check the US Magazine "Economist Intelligence Unit  February 2019" to find the article!

That explains why both Trump and China are blaming each other..... you were both at it creating bioweapons ....It appears China managed to control the spread of the virus and now is working in almost full capacity. The US, on the other hand, is counting the dead bodies, because of your incompetent Mafia Boss.


America been averaging 2000 coronavirus deaths a day for the last 3 weeks. That makes it the number 1 killer of Americans daily by far. Just think if we didn't take any action.
YOU SAID IT!

BTW I like your New Name "Walking Argument"!

Are you sure that he is waking or he is on the couch playing with his SKYpe?

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 03, 2020, 07:15:21 AM
I find myself agreeing with BillyB here, which is not a normal pastime   :chuckle:

Danchik is still busy finding wacko alt right 'evidence' and ignoring FACTS like:  in Sweden one is TEN times more likely more likely to die of the virus than Finland or  Norway to which it is attached, physically.  THREE times than in Denmark.

'Immunity' is not guaranteed having been infected.

you've spend the last couple weeks trolling me every chance you get. I would feel special, but trolling is what you do to everyone. We could go back and look at all your "sillyBilly" nonsense yet you agree now, well, because you can troll.

you even highlighted your own stupidity. well done.

And you're still busy trying to pull your head out of your ass. Oops, guess you failed again.

Just be happy I don't run the board or I would have already done this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216458667968662&set=p.10216458667968662&type=3&eid=ARDkZkY8ptdJCFeWfkNl5cOZyx2dUcbwkpf4_TjN5Gp8j6pqy0DAGDkaqBdHfXppE-xfM4n7RPBb5ZM-

call it addition by subtraction. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 03, 2020, 07:24:24 AM
Andrew is ( as is so often ) busted, once more ..

Orders  / enquiries for c. million dollar yachts, and more, went UP .. demand to charter getaways during the lockdowns went through the roof, in March and in nations like Sweden, Danes like F1 driver Kev Magnussen made for Swedish waters to ride out the dark days.

Germany, Denmark and N.Zealand have loosened rules on boating to allow boaties to check in and out of marinas. launch their new boats and get sailing.

In New England brokerage sales are in severe decline, except for smaller sailboats that are priced at least 10% below the price of last year. Marina's in Massachusetts are in winter mode, meaning shut down. The marina that my brother is in was late last year and early this year planning on increasing the mega slip space you 30%, that is mothballed. They can not fill there existing slips. My brother has a membership based program and had had two renewels on the larger 42 foot 14 meter boats. The other boats are also way down. The only increase has been in the day sailors. My brother is somewhat diversified and is presently doing a delivery, next week he will splash three boats that he is commissioning.

The sale of mega sailing yachts those larger than 15 meters and over $750,000.- are non existent in New England. The premier independent sail charter company is for New England also very quiet.

The Caribean based companies are facing bankruptcy and unable to prepare for the coming hurricane season.

I suspect though there will be a large amount of pent up demand shortly. Also I assume Texan was writing satirically to Wiz. Off course Moby only speaks natural English.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 03, 2020, 08:11:26 AM
Texan, we know you ain't a thinker! A datapoint of one means nothing. You're not even a reliable witness.

Are you telling me that the businesses that closed did so because there was so much business that they couldn't cope with demand and closed to avoid the stress?

Do you imagine that millions of people now claiming unemployment benefit are all spending their newly found spare time looking for a house to buy?

Do you see the advertising from banks offering mortgages to the unemployed?

Don't parade your shortcomings, at least do a sanity check before portraying yourself in a way that is much less flattering than you'd like!

By the way, very short term demand as an artificial spike in business as the ultrarich fly off to their boltholes is not exactly a sign of a strong business. How many flight are being made now that those folks are all tucked up in New Zealand?
 :'(

Oh, right now, I'd be very surprised if any sensible person, unpressured, would be looking to sell a high value property at top dollar. You've told us of your prowess as an investor before now - so you know just why anyone who is not being forced to sell a property would not want to sell.

If you don't understand, get back to me and ask some questions, I will try to help you to understand by pointing you at some learning materials about investing and economics.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 03, 2020, 08:44:54 AM
Looks like the US got a few more problems on the way..

Killer Bees!!

https://www.rt.com/usa/487646-murder-hornets-us-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2bwaYY8XpX5WVl1Eusek-1Onzk_nIw4GRQBlRvB0JK09XQM7KYwRb0Bho
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 03, 2020, 11:48:57 AM
Billy, you're the last person, well besides Moby, who I will listen to about anything. I stopped reading your posts (pa)ages ago and I mostly ignore the walking argument.


You're another one of those guys that announces to the world that you ignore me and then supply long responses to my posts.


Never in the history of man have we gone to any lockdown to fight a respiratory virus, never. Why is that? Because that is not how you combat them; a long established well' known fact.


More BS from conspiracy theory websites you been reading. Lockdowns and masks were used to prevent the spread of the Spanish Flu. If you go back in history, when there are mysterious plagues killing people, they are told to hide or just hide voluntarily.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 03, 2020, 12:21:42 PM
masks were used to prevent the spread of the Spanish Flu.

Yeah, in 1918, FFP2, N95, KN95 and general surgical masks were all the rage. You bought them at Ye Olde Milliners and Mask Emporium.

Social media is awash with references to Spanish Flu in 1918. It is disingenuous to make any comparisons from those days to today. Society, medical science, scientific knowledge and general knowledge is so much different from the year my grandmother was born. As a data point, 1918 is useless in anything but herd immunity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 03, 2020, 12:58:03 PM
They have had many lock downs over the years and not always requiring you to wear a mask and some times the lock downs have lasted several years..

One of them was about 1943-1945

(https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/95389060_10217121336322274_2800960950696411136_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQmpLK_XFCGIt_aMRMl2DRcFfWGPBuJGdCBQxS2U2JZL5oDIPBIVvyS2ck6fj5hL-gg&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=9a254efb5dd6c8255f94da47ae9d7fcd&oe=5ED63D85)

Like I keep saying this virus is just a minor thing compared to what many have had to put up with.. look at them all crying and moaning today being stuck in doors for 5 weeks!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 03, 2020, 01:05:52 PM
Looks like the US got a few more problems on the way..

Killer Bees!!

https://www.rt.com/usa/487646-murder-hornets-us-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2bwaYY8XpX5WVl1Eusek-1Onzk_nIw4GRQBlRvB0JK09XQM7KYwRb0Bho

Quote
An invasive hornet species slaughters honeybees, can be deadly to humans and –unfortunately – has been spotted in the United States.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/02/what-murder-hornets-asian-giant-hornets-here-us/3072996001/

Quote
And while officials are concerned, especially for local honeybee populations, the danger to the average person is low at this time.
The hornets are "probably not going to murder someone ... don’t panic,"

Didn't they say the same think about Covid-19?   :duh: ???

Quote
Sightings have been limited to the Pacific Northwest, although the smaller European hornet is sometimes mistaken for the Asian giant hornet on the East Coast.
Rare complications can include localized necrosis, respiratory failure, kidney failure, liver damage and blood clots.


Didn't the first reported case of Covid-19 appear in the Pacific Northwest?  Doesn't the symptoms sound familiar? :-\

Another "gift" from Asia.   :chuckle:

Mother nature has mutated its organisms.  Time for Homo Sapiens to mutate in order to keep pace.   :nod: :bow: :snivel: :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 03, 2020, 01:16:07 PM
Quote
Some countries that should have been inundated are not, leaving researchers scratching their heads.

Thailand reported the first confirmed case of coronavirus outside of China in mid-January, from a traveler from Wuhan, the Chinese city where the pandemic is thought to have begun. In those critical weeks, Thailand continued to welcome an influx of Chinese visitors. For some reason, these tourists did not set off exponential local transmission.

And when countries do all the wrong things and still end up seemingly not as battered by the virus as one would expect, go figure.

Finally, most experts agree that there may be no single reason for some countries to be hit and others missed. The answer is likely to be some combination of the above factors, as well as one other mentioned by researchers: sheer luck.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-covid-19-riddle-why-does-the-virus-wallop-some-places-and-spare-others/ar-BB13wXDY

I can go along with this.  You either have it or you don't.  Nothing else matters and you can hypothesize all you want.   :coffeeread: :Zzzzsleep: tiphat :P
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 03, 2020, 01:21:03 PM
They have had many lock downs over the years and not always requiring you to wear a mask and some times the lock downs have lasted several years..

One of them was about 1943-1945

(https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/95389060_10217121336322274_2800960950696411136_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQmpLK_XFCGIt_aMRMl2DRcFfWGPBuJGdCBQxS2U2JZL5oDIPBIVvyS2ck6fj5hL-gg&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=9a254efb5dd6c8255f94da47ae9d7fcd&oe=5ED63D85)

Like I keep saying this virus is just a minor thing compared to what many have had to put up with.. look at them all crying and moaning today being stuck in doors for 5 weeks!!

Take note that wars between humans are not the same as wars with Mother Nature.  Mother Nature does NOT take any prisoners!   :nod: (:) :o :scared0005: :bow: :snivel: :sick0012: :'( :GRAVE: :sick0002: :censored:

Quote
Susan Cobey, bee breeder with Washington State University's Department of Entomology, told WSU Insider that the hornets are "like something out of a monster cartoon with this huge yellow-orange face."
WSDA says on their website that the hornets do not typically go after humans, but if they do, not even beekeeping suits can protect against the hornets' stingers, which are longer and more dangerous than a bee's.

https://news.yahoo.com/murder-hornets-newest-lethal-threat-210505376.html

Does the face look familiar?   :evilgrin0002: It's coming after your food source too.   :scared0005: :o :sick0012: :hidechair: :snivel:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 04, 2020, 01:51:58 AM
I find myself agreeing with BillyB here, which is not a normal pastime   :chuckle:

Danchik is still busy finding wacko alt right 'evidence' and ignoring FACTS like:  in Sweden one is TEN times more likely more likely to die of the virus than Finland or  Norway to which it is attached, physically.  THREE times than in Denmark.

'Immunity' is not guaranteed having been infected.


you've spend the last couple weeks trolling me every chance you get. I would feel special, but trolling is what you do to everyone. We could go back and look at all your "sillyBilly" nonsense yet you agree now, well, because you can troll.

Facts, Danchik... these are what trip up true trolls..

1/ You 'joined in' with our 'expert on Russia, UK, Ireland' and advisor on avoiding places he's never BEEN to on trolling my thread re 'Bald and Bankrupts' - advice on what's important if trying to communicate in Russian.. discussing MY 'Russian' language abilities ... :coffeeread:

2/ During your last visit, you laughably told us Moby knows 'nothing about meat' ...  there's a fail for you, eh ? ..  ( given my past work experience and 'qualies' )


you even highlighted your own stupidity. well done.

Naturally, I haven't as you are trying to suggest one Prof's medical opinion is 'correct' over another's ..  I offered you factual PROOF that Sweden's death rates are horrendously worse than her neighbours.  You failed to 'counter' because ....?

And you're still busy trying to pull your head out of your ass. Oops, guess you failed again.

So, STILL no counter, just the ad homienem ..


Just be happy I don't run the board or I would have already done this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216458667968662&set=p.10216458667968662&type=3&eid=ARDkZkY8ptdJCFeWfkNl5cOZyx2dUcbwkpf4_TjN5Gp8j6pqy0DAGDkaqBdHfXppE-xfM4n7RPBb5ZM-

call it addition by subtraction. :chuckle:

Hmm, your 'link' takes me to :

"This page isn't available
The link you followed may be broken, or the page may have been removed."


Here's the sort of scary example of 'experts' who use millions as guinea pigs being fast and loose with stuff they cannot know..

"Sweden's top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, has admitted a series of errors in the government's handling of the coronavirus pandemic"

This is the same 'expert' who told us, in January.. ..

"no need to worry" about the virus, arguing at the time that there was no reason to shut down travel from China, stating that the risk of the infection spreading to Sweden was "very low".

When it comes to fails, I'm happy to stay on the cautious side about stuff we ( and certainly the experts )  still don't understand, but some admit 'mistakes' ...

That's rather hard to swallow for those who may have needlessly lost loved ones..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 05, 2020, 12:39:35 AM
Billy, you're the last person, well besides Moby, who I will listen to about anything. I stopped reading your posts (pa)ages ago and I mostly ignore the walking argument.


You're another one of those guys that announces to the world that you ignore me and then supply long responses to my posts.
Actually, try reading the above again. No where did I say I ignore you, I said I stopped reading your posts, It's Moby whom I "mostly" ignore.

And I stopped because I could come back to this board 5 years from now and you would be saying the same things you have said the last 10 years. There's no growth to you, why read something I've read many time before.


Never in the history of man have we gone to any lockdown to fight a respiratory virus, never. Why is that? Because that is not how you combat them; a long established well' known fact.

More BS from conspiracy theory websites you been reading. Lockdowns and masks were used to prevent the spread of the Spanish Flu. If you go back in history, when there are mysterious plagues killing people, they are told to hide or just hide voluntarily.
When people have nothing, they quickly go to the conspiracy theories. You have nothing.

This from Robert Kennedy Jr, an environmental lawyer with, I'm only, guessing (:), more connections than you to people in the know.

Dr. Shiva, a guy (MIT PhD in biochemistry and Bioengineering) who talks about, among other things, healthy immunity.

Listen to what both say about Fraudci, er Fauci.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 05, 2020, 06:17:56 AM
..and all the while Danchik cannot deal with the fact that Sweden's 'experiment' on its citizens is killing ten times more of 'em that Norway or Finland....who have 'locked down'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 05, 2020, 07:03:40 AM
Meanwhile, the 'herd immunity' experiment ended swiftly in the UK when it became clear that it was mass murder.

It is official..'we' has lost more folk to the virus than any other European nation...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 05, 2020, 07:43:39 AM

Don't always agree with this woman, but this is partly what I meant about keeping up with the data and not regurgitating talking points from 1-3 months ago.

Oh BTW, in January the CDC had warned of a flu season so severe that it could topple 2018 by far. Gee, what happened to the flu? No talk about it at all since then.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 05, 2020, 07:57:24 AM
Meanwhile, the 'herd immunity' experiment ended swiftly in the UK when it became clear that it was mass murder.

You really do spout some tripe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 05, 2020, 08:14:03 AM
Meanwhile, the 'herd immunity' experiment ended swiftly in the UK when it became clear that it was mass murder.

It is official..'we' has lost more folk to the virus than any other European nation...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/)

Presently the UK is by a slim margin of 700 souls in second place using the Worldometers site.

While no one likes the grim reality, as Andrew has noted a herd immunity approach will be the reality in the near future. The quarantines and lock downs are to prevent the hospitals from being unrun and to prevent needless deaths when possible.

The possibility of a vaccine and trustworthy test for exposure is a ways off. Think 8 to 24 months. Until than be safe and be sensible. This is not a pretty picture I understand.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 05, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
..and all the while Danchik cannot deal with the fact that Sweden's 'experiment' on its citizens is killing ten times more of 'em that Norway or Finland....who have 'locked down'...
If you had listened to the video I posted from Dr Erickson, you would have heard him say that Sweden had a higher death rate than Norway, but many fewer deaths than Spain, Italy and the U.K per 100,000, other lockdown countries.

And it's way too early to see what the long term consequences will be. Sweden is a couple of weeks away from herd immunity. Let's see what the numbers look like when the real data comes in about a year from now with real numbers, not the BS skewed data that claims every death is from covid.

And we haven't even begun to count all the deaths from suicides, drug overdoses, depression, heart attacks, etc. from the fallout of lockdown economies. We're just at the tip of it now. 

Try thinking things through.

Not that it isn't a tragedy, but most of Sweden's deaths have been in nursing homes from the elderly, the most vulnerable group .

Moving forward, we should reopen the economy and protect the vulnerable. Flattening the curve will only prolong the disease. Understand how respiratory viruses work. Simple.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 05, 2020, 10:24:53 AM
Quote
Although the researchers don’t yet know the details about how the mutated spike behaves inside the body, it’s clearly doing something that gives it an evolutionary advantage over its predecessor and is fueling its rapid spread. One scientist called it a "classic case of Darwinian evolution."

Medical experts have speculated in recent weeks that they were seeing at least two strains of the virus in the U.S., one prevalent on the East Coast and another on the West Coast, according to Wu.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mutant-coronavirus-emerged-even-more-110046843.html


If this is what happened, you all have taken one step forward and two steps back.   :duh: (:)  Time to mutate and keep pace or else.   :snivel: :sick0012: :evilgrin0002: :bow: :o

Now you know how Nazi Germany felt while being hit from two sides.  Hitler, of course, expected that Germany would eventually win the war.   (:) :GRAVE: :trainwreck: :pointlaugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2020, 10:35:18 AM
Dr. Shiva, a guy (MIT PhD in biochemistry and Bioengineering) who talks about, among other things, healthy immunity.


You must've missed my link pertaining to a related Coronavirus study that escaped from China in 2002 called SARS. Antibodies in survivors lasted two years before it started to significantly decline. That translates to if immunity is possibly, it will last a couple of years then a person can get sick again. Governments need to based their decisions as if immunity is not guaranteed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 05, 2020, 10:45:41 AM
This may in part explain why the Virus was able to be control on the west coast of the USA better than on the east coast. Mother nature is combating social distance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 05, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
If you had listened to the video I posted from Dr Erickson, you would have heard him say that Sweden had a higher death rate than Norway, but many fewer deaths than Spain, Italy and the U.K per 100,000, other lockdown countries. 

Let's not compare Apples and Oranges.   Norway, Sweden and Finland are physically attached and have similar population spreads re city / town dwelling.

The UK went down the 'herd immunity' route and then changed tack, too late.
 
And it's way too early to see what the long term consequences will be.

It's not 'too early' too compare death rates, now.. between VERY comparable nations, one being the one you 'promote' as being 'sensible'

Now come the REAL'interesting assertion'..

Sweden is a couple of weeks away from herd immunity. Let's see what the numbers look like when the real data comes in about a year from now with real numbers, not the BS skewed data that claims every death is from covid.

1/ the concept of 'herd immunity' is unproven - it seems entirely possible that Doctors and Nurses have died in the UK, Spain, Italy, China after being re-infected

2/ How many people have had to die in Sweden for this 'experiment' ?

And we haven't even begun to count all the deaths from suicides, drug overdoses, depression, heart attacks, etc. from the fallout of lockdown economies. We're just at the tip of it now. 

Whilst I am sure the mental health issues have soared, the FACT is that COVID-19 deaths have seen the normal weekly, year on year UK death rate DOUBLE

Try thinking things through.

Quite.. and with concrete data that says... STAYING AT HOME SAVES LIVES

Not that it isn't a tragedy, but most of Sweden's deaths have been in nursing homes from the elderly, the most vulnerable group .

Again, MANY more have died in Sweden than Finland and Norway ... 'tragic mistakes' made by the experts you espouse ..

Moving forward, we should reopen the economy and protect the vulnerable. Flattening the curve will only prolong the disease. Understand how respiratory viruses work. Simple.

Do you know how to drill down to the mortality rates for Sweden ?  I do not think you could know and post what you just have...

https://www.scb.se/en/About-us/news-and-press-releases/highest-mortality-this-millennium-noted-in-sweden/ (https://www.scb.se/en/About-us/news-and-press-releases/highest-mortality-this-millennium-noted-in-sweden/)

1/ Mortality in Stockholm County remains high. In weeks 14–16, the number of deaths were twice as many compared to the weekly average in the period 2015–2019.

“Three times as many deaths were registered in 2020 than the average for 2015–2019 in both Sundbyberg and Borlänge,” says Tomas Johansson.


Death rates by age:

2/ 13% under sixty and 18% under 69,  up to and including today - MUCH higher than Sweden's neighbours ( and even the UK )

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa (https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa)

3/ New intensive care cases were the same for the 4th May as a month ago ...  hardly 'dropping' as Danchik suggests ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2020, 11:29:39 AM
More bad news about the virus but scientists at the Los Alamos National Laboratory are putting out their findings early so that those working on vaccines can make sure it gets the most dominant and dangerous mutated strain of the virus which can make a person more vulnerable to reinfection. I hope whatever vaccine they come out with, it'll take care of all strains before the virus mutates to the point another vaccine needs to be found.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-even-more-contagious-than-the-original-study-says/ar-BB13CHNP?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 05, 2020, 12:14:24 PM
This may in part explain why the Virus was able to be control on the west coast of the USA better than on the east coast. Mother nature is combating social distance.

Are we still talking about a virus? Or an alien invasion?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on May 05, 2020, 04:02:25 PM
watch all of it before commenting, for most its dates and times not telling you what to think, he drifts off a few times, I ignored that, but if some of  dates and timelines are true, makes you think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 05, 2020, 04:24:09 PM
Quote
Three doctors in Russia fell out of hospital windows in the span of two weeks, prompting questions and speculation on the treatment of frontline healthcare workers amid the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.businessinsider.com/two-russian-doctors-dead-one-hospitalized-falling-out-of-windows-2020-5

If you don't follow the story that we are peddling, something bad is going to happen to you.   >:( (:) :scared0005: :hidechair:

Quote
Americans do have the right to harm themselves. It’s legal to smoke, binge on trans fats, base-jump, and do other things that raise the risk of illness, injury or death. But there are many laws that prevent Americans from doing things that raise the risk of harm to others. You might think you have a right to drive 100 miles per hour, but you don’t, because of the exponential increase in the odds you’ll cause a deadly crash involving somebody else.

For virus embracers wondering where to start, reach out to the anti-vaccine movement. In fact, recruit them to join your Freedom Compounds, where you can all face down coronavirus, influenza, diphtheria, hepatitis, measles, mumps and other lamestream exaggerations, with no mandatory cures from the medical-industrial complex. You’ll suffer some losses, but it’ll be worth it. No price is too high for freedom.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/if-you-want-to-protest-lockdowns-renounce-health-care-180913176.html

Live free or die as the saying goes.  Health care workers should just go on strike and let the "chips fall where they may".  The grim reaper is waiting for you.   :chuckle: (:) :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2020, 08:27:37 PM
Quote
Three doctors in Russia fell out of hospital windows in the span of two weeks, prompting questions and speculation on the treatment of frontline healthcare workers amid the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.businessinsider.com/two-russian-doctors-dead-one-hospitalized-falling-out-of-windows-2020-5


Russian doctors who fall out of windows seemed to have picked up the same bad habits of journalists who speak out against the Russian government. They lose their balance and fall out of a window.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 05, 2020, 11:17:09 PM
An interview I found via the link in the news header at the top.

Johan Giesecke is one of the most renowned Swedish epidemiologists. He advises the Swedish government and the World Health Organization. He considers lockdowns pointless, hopeless to limit the spread of the corona virus. According to him, politicians want to use the pandemic to raise their profile and are implementing measures that have hardly been scientifically proven.

https://www.addendum.org/coronavirus/interview-johan-giesecke/

His point of view seems reasonable and credible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 06, 2020, 12:24:31 AM

Meanwhile, the 'herd immunity' experiment ended swiftly in the UK when it became clear that it was mass murder.

You really do spout some tripe.

Your loyal 'defence' of BoJo and his 'SAGE' becomes you, but the FACT is the UK govt was going down th Sweden route, banning mass gatherings and hoping they could 'flatten the curve'without being too intrusive in our lives, when other nations ( Germany )  were taking measures to track and trace.

Our govt changed tack.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 06, 2020, 12:42:36 AM
An interview I found via the link in the news header at the top.

Johan Giesecke is one of the most renowned Swedish epidemiologists. He advises the Swedish government and the World Health Organization. He considers lockdowns pointless, hopeless to limit the spread of the corona virus. According to him, politicians want to use the pandemic to raise their profile and are implementing measures that have hardly been scientifically proven.

https://www.addendum.org/coronavirus/interview-johan-giesecke/

His point of view seems reasonable and credible.

IF you'd been paying attention (!) DAnchik has been espousing Prof Giesecke, who strongly disagreed with Prof. Neil Ferguson (of Imperial College, London.) He and I have been discussing why Sweden has TEN times the death rates of Finland and Norway and nearly FOUR times that of Denmark ..


https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/ (https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/)

Here, he specifically mentions the UK "The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better " .. something you may have suggested to me was 'nonsense'..


So, the UK govt frightened sh1tless by Ferguson's model predictions ( without intervention) implemented social distancing FAR later than other nations ... remember the first nice weekend, after all the rain ... all the 'f'n 'tourists' heading to the Lake District, beaches and Snowdonia ?...  The 'herd' HAD to be controlled .... At least the Swedes had a clue about social distancing ..

Now some 'juicy gossip'

Neil Ferguson has JUST had to resign from SAGE ... for not following his own advice to govt ..  :'(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52553229 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52553229)

Prof Neil Ferguson has quit as a government adviser on coronavirus after admitting an "error of judgement".

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 06, 2020, 01:28:53 AM
An interview I found via the link in the news header at the top.

Johan Giesecke is one of the most renowned Swedish epidemiologists. He advises the Swedish government and the World Health Organization. He considers lockdowns pointless, hopeless to limit the spread of the corona virus. According to him, politicians want to use the pandemic to raise their profile and are implementing measures that have hardly been scientifically proven.

https://www.addendum.org/coronavirus/interview-johan-giesecke/

His point of view seems reasonable and credible.

I didn't need proof when they first announced the lockdown in Netherlands. It simply registered as 'common sense' here. If you do not get into contact with other humans, chance you get infected drops significantly.

And if I were a rumour-gossip , I would say : Don't trust anything coming from sweden relating to covid. Just look at those numbers in the world meter!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 06, 2020, 02:25:16 AM
Meanwhile, the 'herd immunity' experiment ended swiftly in the UK when it became clear that it was mass murder.

It is official..'we' has lost more folk to the virus than any other European nation.


https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/nearly-6000-deaths-care-homes-new-figures-reveal-12655146/)

I have to admit that Moby is nearer to my views regarding the COVID – 19 Pandemic than other people on this board who think our Government has done a good Job.

I heard & read today that Prof Neil Ferguson / UK coronavirus adviser resigned after breaking lockdown rules by accepting visits from a woman in his house who went to offer him some relaxation TLC! :chuckle: :chuckle:

“Do as you been told…. Not as I do” comes to mind!!!!

I also read that the newly build “Nightingale Hospital” to deal with Corona virus patients….is going to close down as only treated about 50 patience!

If that is true then it’s pretty obvious that a friend of the party in power must made a lot of money! I am sure that Manny who knows about cars and Buildings would have liked to be part of that business and pot of money, instead of importing and selling those cheap Masks from China!

By the way Just remembered posting, in an earlier post, the comments of Chris Sweeney for the failures of Boris Johnson and asked ..Boris Johnson must resign now (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28644.msg509907/highlight,Boris+Johnson+should+resign.html#msg509907) .... His lousy leadership has cost us thousands of lives

He was spot on with his views!  :nod:  tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 06, 2020, 06:57:33 AM
Seems to me some demand the cure, but will not take the medicine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 06, 2020, 09:47:47 AM
Seems to me some demand the cure, but will not take the medicine.

Some people are anti vaccine for various reasons. In extremely rare cases, some people have allergic reactions and some have died. Other think its a way government controls people. A vaccine for a Coronavirus has never been discovered. If in their rush they discover one, it may not be effective for 100% of the population. Not much time to test if it's truly safe for humans either.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on May 06, 2020, 12:45:20 PM
I was talking to my friend in Italy and he was telling me they're having excellent results with transfusions of plasma with antibodies into sick people. He says 2 days after the transfusion, people sick with covid-19 are much better. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 06, 2020, 12:57:22 PM
I was talking to my friend in Italy and he was telling me they're having excellent results with transfusions of plasma with antibodies into sick people. He says 2 days after the transfusion, people sick with covid-19 are much better.

That solution will only work for those people who have trouble producing enough antibodies. A lot of people's problems come from their immune system going into overdrive to fight this new virus and producing too many antibodies which kill everything, including living tissue. People who have lupus have that problem and it's probably why hydroxychloroquine may work for some people since it suppresses the immune system. Some survivors will have organ damage for the rest of their lives, if not from the virus, from their own antibodies damaging their organ cells.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 06, 2020, 01:56:47 PM
Quote
"Therefore we know with great certainty that there will be a second wave. The majority of scientists are sure of this. One also assumes there will be a third wave."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-second-and-third-wave-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-now-very-likely-according-to-german-researchers/ar-BB13Gyji

Watch out for the virus 'Tet offensive'.    :o :scared0005: :sick0012: :hidechair: :snivel: :censored:

Quote
Moscow, Russia's largest city and capital, is the country's epicenter with a little more than half of the country's total infections within the metropolitan area. According to The Moscow Times, the city has confirmed 85,973 total cases of the novel coronavirus, while 866 of those infected have died. Despite Russia's high infection rate, the death toll has until now remained relatively low compared with several European nations and the U.S.
Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin warned that the worst of the pandemic was yet to come.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-emerges-as-coronavirus-hotspot-recording-over-10000-cases-per-day/ar-BB13GLhf

So China has done a great job in containing the virus?     :duh: (:) :'(  The virus has found another area for a "feeding frenzy".   :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :hidechair: :snivel: :o

Quote
The stakes have never been higher, because if these technologies fail, the whole world will be watching.

“I really hope that Moderna’s vaccine works very well, because if it doesn’t, it will be a disaster for mRNA vaccines,” says Norbert Pardi, who is developing an mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 at the University of Pennsylvania. “A great success would be very good for the whole field.”


“There are billions of people that would like access to a vaccine. It is the greatest demand for a pharmaceutical product ever, way more demand than the iPhone,” says Joseph Payne, CEO of Arcturus, a company with a grant to develop mRNA vaccines for Singapore, a country of about 5.8 million people. “Even if we all succeed, it will be very challenging to satisfy the demand in the near term.”

Beyond the practical challenges of making these new vaccines, gene-based vaccines carry the same risks as all the other vaccines. There’s a rare, but real, chance that a vaccine can actually boost a viral infection rather than prevent it. And although SARS-CoV-2 has mutated relatively slowly so far—especially compared with other RNA viruses like HIV and influenza—there’s always a possibility that an effective vaccine could suddenly be rendered useless if the virus evolves in just the right way.


https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/coronavirus-help-mRNA-DNA-vaccines/98/i14

Don't be so optimistic that a useful vaccine will be forthcoming.  The "goal posts" can be changed.   (:) :-\ :'( :dh:

P. S.  What is an iPhone?    :chuckle: :duh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 06, 2020, 02:46:46 PM

That solution will only work for those people who have trouble producing enough antibodies. A lot of people's problems come from their immune system going into overdrive to fight this new virus and producing too many antibodies which kill everything, including living tissue. People who have lupus have that problem and it's probably why hydroxychloroquine may work for some people since it suppresses the immune system. Some survivors will have organ damage for the rest of their lives, if not from the virus, from their own antibodies damaging their organ cells.

'Dr BillyB',

Allow those with a clue to find a solution ..

https://www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-help/convalescent-plasma-clinical-trial/
 (https://www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-help/convalescent-plasma-clinical-trial/)

I donate blood and have donated plasma and got an email re this....

Pretty sure, I've not had it, having been locked away ..


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 06, 2020, 03:49:30 PM
Dcguy, the Russians are testing a huge number of people. They are testing people who are not showing symptoms. What they are finding is that there are many, many more people who have had or are still infected with covid-19 but have not been ill.

Their numbers of cases look high because they are dredging up people in a way not being done elsewhere. It's absolutely certain that if testing was being done in the UK in the same way as Russia then there'd be a lot more cases confirmed. Like many things in life, we tend to find that which we are looking for. That's a good thing here.

The single most important facet of covid-19 is not the number of deaths or the number of cases but the number of people who need hospital care. What we are seeing is that relatively speaking, in Russia, that number is quite small. Following from that, the number of deaths is quite small.

The ratio of negative tests to positive tests is high. I shared the numbers a few days ago. That's important because it tells us the degree to which infections are under control. IIRC the ratio is about half that of the USA but about twice that of estonia where it has been well controlled from the outset. Fortunately for estonia, the biggest outbreak happened on an island. Swiftly the island was isolated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 06, 2020, 09:34:58 PM
Andrewfi,

Once again, I see you posting as if you 'know' to someone and ALL you've done is proved you seem to be seeking RU citizenship or a medal ..for 'talking up' the 'success' of their testing program.

Now let's get this straight .. The UK Health Minister told us in January ( 23rd) that we had 'world leading tests' and the risk from this virus was low...

UK MPs withdrew Tweets boasting of how Italy, with over a thousand deaths when we had 35 ..meant that 'The UK had the situation under  control' ..  no 'russophobia' ..

So, here is a more representative comment on Russia's testing programme.

1/ Private labs set up and charged for tests - after initially being refused by the regulator, Rospotrebnadzor

2/ Then that was 'illegal, with Rospotrebnadzor launching its very own testing system for COVID-19. That  required a fee from each patient, the aim being to expand the service to all of Russia’s regions.

3/ 1 week later, however, a directive from Russia’s prime minister ( now reported to be suffering from the virus ) forced Rospotrebnadzor to allow for private testing once again.

4/ Piter kicked off a testing programme in March 16th promising free tests and it didn't happen - the programme was pulled and later relaunched

5/ Rospotrebnadzor managed to report the number of 'tests carried out' to be 536,669 two days in a row and 'over 536,000' on the third day...   'a technical error' ...it was explained.

6/ ANYone who knows how reporting works in Russia knows numbers are painted to show bad things in a better light .. If you are dying, you are sent home from hospital to keep the mortality rate low.  A bit like andrewfi and the UK govts'  'making 100k tests a day'... on the day 'promised, since when the numbers fell back ( what a surprise ) by 15 k short of said target, our andrewfi is rather too easily persuaded to accept figures govt agencies post.

7/ So, andrewfi, do you know anyone who has been quarantined and 'tested' in Russia and can comment on the procedure ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 06, 2020, 09:37:15 PM
Russian authorities buy crappy test from NL, find out it's from China and none too reliable ..

Dutch firm supplied the Moscow authorities with a test to identify SARS-CoV2 antibodies present ... only they were 'unreliable' and from ..China ..

http://meduza.io/news/2020/05/06/vlasti-moskvy-v-kontse-aprelya-zakupili-sotni-tysyach-gollandskih-testov-na-antitela-k-koronavirusu-okazalos-chto-oni-sdelany-v-kitae-i-ochen-netochny  (http://meduza.io/news/2020/05/06/vlasti-moskvy-v-kontse-aprelya-zakupili-sotni-tysyach-gollandskih-testov-na-antitela-k-koronavirusu-okazalos-chto-oni-sdelany-v-kitae-i-ochen-netochny)  in Russian
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 07, 2020, 12:04:46 AM
Allow those with a clue to find a solution ..

https://www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-help/convalescent-plasma-clinical-trial/
 (https://www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-help/convalescent-plasma-clinical-trial/)

I donate blood and have donated plasma and got an email re this...

Pretty sure, I've not had it, having been locked away
..

Quote from NHS link you provided above:

Who can donate convalescent plasma?

Convalescent plasma can only be donated by someone who has had the virus. It is also important that donors have fully recovered from COVID-19, and that their body has had time to develop a good antibody response.

We are currently collecting plasma no sooner than 28 days after recovery and can only accept donations from people who are able to visit one of our main donor centres (see below).


Donating plasma

Any donations will take place at one of the following donor centres.

Plasma donation is not the same as blood donation. The process takes around 45 minutes because it separates plasma from the blood as you donate, in a process called apheresis.

We will discuss the details of your donation before you take part.

Sorry for my ignorant but I Just wonder why did you have to give Plasma ....... and did you informed the NHS of your previous infection that you told the world?

If I remember well from my previous hospital experience, when you give blad, they don't ask you if you had any.... previous infections.

 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 07, 2020, 12:37:29 AM
Andrewfi,

Once again, I see you posting as if you 'know' to someone and ALL you've done is proved you seem to be seeking RU citizenship or a medal ..for 'talking up' the 'success' of their testing program.

Now let's get this straight .. The UK Health Minister told us in January ( 23rd) that we had 'world leading tests' and the risk from this virus was low...

UK MPs withdrew Tweets boasting of how Italy, with over a thousand deaths when we had 35 ..meant that 'The UK had the situation under  control' ..  no 'russophobia' ..

So, here is a more representative comment on Russia's testing programme.

1/ Private labs set up and charged for tests - after initially being refused by the regulator, Rospotrebnadzor

2/ Then that was 'illegal, with Rospotrebnadzor launching its very own testing system for COVID-19. That  required a fee from each patient, the aim being to expand the service to all of Russia’s regions.

3/ 1 week later, however, a directive from Russia’s prime minister ( now reported to be suffering from the virus ) forced Rospotrebnadzor to allow for private testing once again.

4/ Piter kicked off a testing programme in March 16th promising free tests and it didn't happen - the programme was pulled and later relaunched

5/ Rospotrebnadzor managed to report the number of 'tests carried out' to be 536,669 two days in a row and 'over 536,000' on the third day...   'a technical error' ...it was explained.

6/ ANYone who knows how reporting works in Russia knows numbers are painted to show bad things in a better light .. If you are dying, you are sent home from hospital to keep the mortality rate low.  A bit like andrewfi and the UK govts'  'making 100k tests a day'... on the day 'promised, since when the numbers fell back ( what a surprise ) by 15 k short of said target, our andrewfi is rather too easily persuaded to accept figures govt agencies post.

7/ So, andrewfi, do you know anyone who has been quarantined and 'tested' in Russia and can comment on the procedure ?


Are the above your own comments and Copyright or you copied them from elsewhere?

If the latter you forgot to provide relevant links!

 ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 07, 2020, 12:56:20 AM
Russian authorities buy crappy test from NL, find out it's from China and none too reliable ..

Dutch firm supplied the Moscow authorities with a test to identify SARS-CoV2 antibodies present ... only they were 'unreliable' and from ..China ..

http://meduza.io/news/2020/05/06/vlasti-moskvy-v-kontse-aprelya-zakupili-sotni-tysyach-gollandskih-testov-na-antitela-k-koronavirusu-okazalos-chto-oni-sdelany-v-kitae-i-ochen-netochny  (http://meduza.io/news/2020/05/06/vlasti-moskvy-v-kontse-aprelya-zakupili-sotni-tysyach-gollandskih-testov-na-antitela-k-koronavirusu-okazalos-chto-oni-sdelany-v-kitae-i-ochen-netochny)  in Russian

Yeah this one was all over Dutch news as well. I don't think that business will survive Dutch justice  >:( It all depends how it was worded though, but if they claimed it was their own tests they are going down.

The Russians were also not the only victims. 1,5 Million tests sold worldwide.

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1179507196/nederlands-bedrijf-verkocht-1-5-miljoen-onbetrouwbare-coronatests
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 07, 2020, 01:22:50 AM
moby, why oh why, oh why.

Dishonesty from you all the bloody time. It's so tiresome.

if you are going to be dishonest you need to be consistent about it!

The tests were sent out, the government met the target it set. They have failed to do so in the days since. The failure to get over 100k tests out since then does not mean that they did not do so previously. If you want to be upset about testing then at least be honest about it and moan about the fact that the government's testing has not been able to keep up to the peak numbers. That's a valid complaint. You can't legitimately moan about the fact that the target was met for a few days.

There's plenty of legitimate criticism to be made but you can't legitimately criticise for actually doing what was promised. Not unless you are an inherently dishonest person choosing to reduce your credibility even further.

The problem for you is that when you make a studied point of being dishonest in one area then the only thing that your interlocutors can do is treat everything that comes out of you as being dishonest, untrue, not credible.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 07, 2020, 02:54:12 AM
Ambulance just turned up at our block out got three people in full bio suits the lot!!

Im going to wear mask and goggles working today and close the ventilation down..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 07, 2020, 03:27:04 AM

Sorry for my ignorant but I Just wonder why did you have to give Plasma ....... and did you informed the NHS of your previous infection that you told the world?

If I remember well from my previous hospital experience, when you give blad, they don't ask you if you had any.... previous infections.

 :coffeeread:

Wiz, I shall regard your question as a genuine desire for education ...  :coffeeread:

Naturally, one's blood is tested .. My having HSV I/II antibodies present is a matter of record.

Anyone can give plasma - it is not 'having to' .. one volunteers.. Not all folks plasma is required.. one must attend a major hospital and you're hooked up to a piece of kit and it takes a morning or afternoon of your time.  Unlike some institutions in America, in the UK, it is a donation .. ( blood / plasma)

If you donate plasma, one couldn't give blood for six months .. it is two times a year or 4 times a year for blood

By the way, they DO ask you where you've been ..

https://my.blood.co.uk/KnowledgeBase/Travel (https://my.blood.co.uk/KnowledgeBase/Travel)


Russia

Some parts of Russia still have a West Nile Virus issue ..  Altayskiy Kray, Adygeya republic, Lipetskaya, Novosibirskaya, Voronezhskaya, Volgogradskaya, Rostovskaya, Astrakhanskaya, Belgorodskaya, Samarskaya, Saratovskaya, Chelyabinskya oblasts and the Tatarstan Republic

Georgia


If you visited the south east of the country between the months of June and October, if you were advised to take or did take Anti malarial medication please wait 4 months from your date of return.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 07, 2020, 03:41:01 AM
moby, why oh why, oh why.

Dishonesty from you all the bloody time. It's so tiresome.

if you are going to be dishonest you need to be consistent about it!

The tests were sent out, the government met the target it set.

'Naughty' andrewfi, once again, fails to deal with the govt's criteria for what constituted a test changing ..

1/ They 'moved the goal posts ' to achieve the '100k' and have failed, since

2/ The dear reader will note andrewfi, didn't even bother to deal with the RF's 'numbers'





Are the above your own comments and Copyright or you copied them from elsewhere?

If the latter you forgot to provide relevant links!

 ;D

Dear Wiz,

You are correct.. I forgot to enter my sources

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/04/08/russia-s-testing-trouble-continues

https://meduza.io/en/news/2020/04/02/russian-public-health-authority-can-t-explain-why-it-s-published-the-same-exact-coronavirus-test-count-for-three-days-straight

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/03/17/hospitals-reach-capacity-in-st-petersburg-as-promised-free-coronavirus-tests-fail-to-materialize
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 07, 2020, 04:32:50 AM
Andrewfi,

Once again, I see you posting as if you 'know' to someone and ALL you've done is proved you seem to be seeking RU citizenship or a medal ..for 'talking up' the 'success' of their testing program.

Now let's get this straight .. The UK Health Minister told us in January ( 23rd) that we had 'world leading tests' and the risk from this virus was low...

UK MPs withdrew Tweets boasting of how Italy, with over a thousand deaths when we had 35 ..meant that 'The UK had the situation under  control' ..  no 'russophobia' ..

So, here is a more representative comment on Russia's testing programme.

1/ Private labs set up and charged for tests - after initially being refused by the regulator, Rospotrebnadzor

2/ Then that was 'illegal, with Rospotrebnadzor launching its very own testing system for COVID-19. That  required a fee from each patient, the aim being to expand the service to all of Russia’s regions.

3/ 1 week later, however, a directive from Russia’s prime minister ( now reported to be suffering from the virus ) forced Rospotrebnadzor to allow for private testing once again.

4/ Piter kicked off a testing programme in March 16th promising free tests and it didn't happen - the programme was pulled and later relaunched

5/ Rospotrebnadzor managed to report the number of 'tests carried out' to be 536,669 two days in a row and 'over 536,000' on the third day...   'a technical error' ...it was explained.

6/ ANYone who knows how reporting works in Russia knows numbers are painted to show bad things in a better light .. If you are dying, you are sent home from hospital to keep the mortality rate low.  A bit like andrewfi and the UK govts'  'making 100k tests a day'... on the day 'promised, since when the numbers fell back ( what a surprise ) by 15 k short of said target, our andrewfi is rather too easily persuaded to accept figures govt agencies post.

7/ So, andrewfi, do you know anyone who has been quarantined and 'tested' in Russia and can comment on the procedure ?

For a chap who’s never wrong, never misunderstands anything and who’s knowledge surpasses even the most qualified professionals, you’re a decidedly average man at best.

With your ability, I’d expect far more from you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 07, 2020, 05:45:17 AM
Ah, another self-appointed 'alfa'  male is amongst us .. :chuckle:

Rosco,

Unlike you, I talk to a medically trained and brilliant mathematician, who is locked down and spends far too much of his time analysing data and making it ''statistically smoothed' and a well-renowned micro-biologist and retired surgeon - who is back on the GMC registers "Special Register " for recently retired Doctors..


Guess what? I pick up a thing or two.. even though these guys are on a plain or 10 above my abilities .. I hear them discuss - from a healthcare and results perspective - the goods and bads re testing, PPE procurement and provisioning and comparisons with other nations, including Russia.

Now, if you have any evidence to suggest professional bodies aren't still outraged by the UK govt 'claims'  and some management screw ups re provisioning of tests, PPE kit do let us know...


Remember that PPE kit ordered from Turkey ...  ? Now sat in a warehouse ....  not to standard ..   'red tape' making firms offering to supply tests and PPE kits from being used ... ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52569364 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52569364)

Coronavirus PPE: Gowns ordered from Turkey fail to meet safety standards




Meanwhile, here's our clever chaps latest smoothed stat data via Johns Hopkins ..

(https://i.imgur.com/mJQnnbn.jpg)

Note the continued high re UK new cases and Russia's growing confirmed cases


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 07, 2020, 06:54:17 AM
This poster doesn't believe the numbers from BY

Nor, it seems does Russia's Channel 1

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/07/belarus-expels-russian-journalist-over-fake-coronavirus-report-media-a70203 (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/07/belarus-expels-russian-journalist-over-fake-coronavirus-report-media-a70203)

Belarus Expels Russian Journalist Over ‘Fake' Coronavirus Report
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 07, 2020, 06:55:14 AM
Ambulance just turned up at our block out got three people in full bio suits the lot!!

Im going to wear mask and goggles working today and close the ventilation down..

Steve, make your life easier. Next time you see folks who have COvid-19 go and give them a kiss, give them the full-on tongue treatment.

Then go back to the apartment and wait a few days for the coughing and tiredness. Think nothing of it, life goes on and you'll be one of the lucky ones who can travel, live a normal life. Your wife will be a Covid Cutie and You'll be a Viral Superman! Flying to Sochi or Krim, eating in restaurants as close to each other as you like. It'll be real fin de siècle stuff.

But if you avoid the Covid then you're going to be a modern day serf. Condemned to work, not travel, not socialise, stand in queues. Just like the old days you'll be standing queueing, waiting while the privileged Covid Cuties and Viral Supermen go straight past you.

Go Kiss A Covid Infectee Today - They are tomorrow's privileged people!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on May 07, 2020, 07:16:50 AM
Russian authorities buy crappy test from NL, find out it's from China and none too reliable...

Dutch firm supplied the Moscow authorities with a test to identify SARS-CoV2 antibodies present... only they were 'unreliable' and from... China...

http://meduza.io/news/2020/05/06/vlasti-moskvy-v-kontse-aprelya-zakupili-sotni-tysyach-gollandskih-testov-na-antitela-k-koronavirusu-okazalos-chto-oni-sdelany-v-kitae-i-ochen-netochny  (http://meduza.io/news/2020/05/06/vlasti-moskvy-v-kontse-aprelya-zakupili-sotni-tysyach-gollandskih-testov-na-antitela-k-koronavirusu-okazalos-chto-oni-sdelany-v-kitae-i-ochen-netochny)  in Russian

 :nod: Yep - the tests should have costed 400 RUR per piece, while Moscow government has paid the intermediary 2.400 RUR. If they shared their profit equally, 1.000 RUB x 100.000 tests per pocket already makes a nice round sum...   :rouble-smile:  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 07, 2020, 07:33:46 AM
Ambulance just turned up at our block out got three people in full bio suits the lot!!

Im going to wear mask and goggles working today and close the ventilation down..

Steve, make your life easier. Next time you see folks who have COvid-19 go and give them a kiss, give them the full-on tongue treatment.

Then go back to the apartment and wait a few days for the coughing and tiredness. Think nothing of it, life goes on and you'll be one of the lucky ones who can travel, live a normal life. Your wife will be a Covid Cutie and You'll be a Viral Superman! Flying to Sochi or Krim, eating in restaurants as close to each other as you like. It'll be real fin de siècle stuff.

But if you avoid the Covid then you're going to be a modern day serf. Condemned to work, not travel, not socialise, stand in queues. Just like the old days you'll be standing queueing, waiting while the privileged Covid Cuties and Viral Supermen go straight past you.

Go Kiss A Covid Infectee Today - They are tomorrow's privileged people!



No no... Im not going near the buggers!! Just in case they turn into flesh eating zombies.. Im sure Hollywood has been slowly getting us ready for it..

Some already are!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/german-zombie-hunters-found-car-115338642.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 07, 2020, 08:01:45 AM
Wiz, Asking msmoby

Are the above your own comments and Copyright or you copied them from elsewhere?

If the latter you forgot to provide relevant links!

I also wondered the same, the post does not show any typical ms mistakes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 07, 2020, 08:11:50 AM
I was talking to my friend in Italy and he was telling me they're having excellent results with transfusions of plasma with antibodies into sick people. He says 2 days after the transfusion, people sick with covid-19 are much better.

That has been done for a long time for other diseases. They are doing that here for covid-19 but there is a limited amount of plasma with antibodies available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 07, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Wiz it seem Greece may have done well by keeping the virus at bay but the price is it is Europe's worse economic disaster.

Greece, which had started turning a corner after a decade of economic calamity, will be worst-hit in the union, according to the forecasts, losing 9.7 of its economic output this year. Poland would suffer the least, with a 4.5 percent recession.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-european-union-is-facing-its-worst-recession-ever-watch-out-world/ar-BB13HPRN
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 07, 2020, 01:19:40 PM
I talk to a medically trained and brilliant mathematician, who is locked down and spends far too much of his time analysing data and making it ''statistically smoothed' and a well-renowned micro-biologist and retired surgeon - who is back on the GMC registers "Special Register " for recently retired Doctors..

Who'd a thunk it? :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 07, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Wiz, Asking msmoby

Are the above your own comments and Copyright or you copied them from elsewhere?

If the latter you forgot to provide relevant links!

I also wondered the same, the post does not show any typical ms mistakes.

He answered the first one No 1834 but he fluffhead No 1835......instead by lecturing me for Blood Donation!  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 07, 2020, 03:39:23 PM

He answered the first one No 1834 but he fluffhead No 1835......instead by lecturing me for Blood Donation!  (:)

'Sighs' ..#1840 ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 07, 2020, 04:29:29 PM

He answered the first one No 1834 but he fluffhead No 1835......instead by lecturing me for Blood Donation!  (:)

'Sighs' ..#1840 ..

Because ms posts need to be approved they move around a bit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 07, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote
The virus that causes COVID-19 can be found in semen, according to a small study from researchers in China.

To be safe, though, “it may be wise to avoid sexual contact with men until they are 14 days without symptoms,”

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-05-07/covid-19-coronavirus-semen

It's all inside you.   :o :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :snivel: :chuckle:

A report indicated that low Vitamin D level may help the virus to infect you more easier.  So being at home in a lockdown enhances getting infected.   :duh: ??? (:)

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/should-people-take-vitamin-d-to-ward-off-the-new-coronavirus

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 07, 2020, 08:17:35 PM
Quote
Researchers from the University of Texas at Austin, the National Institutes of Health and Ghent University in Belgium began researching llama blood four years ago while looking for antibodies to fight the 2003 SARS virus and the 2012 MERS virus, which are also coronaviruses. And members of the camel family, such as llamas and alpacas, produce two types of antibodies to detect bacteria and viruses: one similar to human antibodies, as well as smaller antibodies called nanobodies that are about a quarter of the size. And these nanobodies are not only easier for scientists to work with, but they can also be nebulized and used in an inhaler.


While humans produce just one set of antibodies when they get sick, llamas make two: one that's around the size of human antibodies, and one that's much smaller. Those smaller antibodies are usually better at accessing the tiny holes in viruses' spike proteins and eradicating them,

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-llama-named-winter-could-be-the-key-to-fighting-the-coronavirus-2020-05-06

https://www.yahoo.com/news/llamas-may-hold-key-effective-193822590.html


Your savior has arrived!     :chuckle: :bow: :coffeeread: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 08, 2020, 02:14:52 AM
Ok this may not effect a few oldies here.. :laugh:

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/coronavirus-covid19-sperm-semen-men-150054815.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 08, 2020, 08:07:26 AM
Quote
The virus that causes COVID-19 can be found in semen, according to a small study from researchers in China.

To be safe, though, “it may be wise to avoid sexual contact with men until they are 14 days without symptoms,”

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-05-07/covid-19-coronavirus-semen

It's all inside you. 

Sounds like a women winning the trifecta, 1.) I can catch Covid from you. 2.) I can become pregnant. 3.) I have to spend 14 days with you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 08, 2020, 08:18:29 AM
There was an article in Yahoo about virus cases going up..

I love to read some of the comments people make..

Here is a classic ..

(https://scontent.fhel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/96427655_2779870852111801_2099585047433576448_o.png?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQm2uXbqKmiOWmGK8C4XDJA8xqnXJwtNpxVR-vZsHbE35SjwbK6ok-hwMf5WNllA6sU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel3-1.fna&oh=36853dbc9ee32c18f25d21cc8e4209e6&oe=5EDC6E9D)

It is nearly summer time in Moscow now... :laugh: :laugh:

It is easy to understand why the Russian bride thing is going to be around for a few years yet .. even if there are no brides to marry!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 08, 2020, 09:09:12 AM
I see mystic moby couldn't control himself. Dragged out yet another imaginary friend to tell us all just how wrong we all are.

Even though he knows that we know his little game and he knows that e give it no credence he just can't help himself.

Mystic, we know that you're not in great shape but try to change things up a little. No need for the impossible so don't worry about trying honesty, just go for variety so that you at least offer a little bit of entertainment value.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 08, 2020, 01:36:23 PM
Quote
“This is 99% media hype and frankly I’m getting tired of it,” said University of Delaware entomologist Doug Tallamy. “Murder hornet? Please.”

https://whnt.com/news/bug-experts-dismiss-worry-about-us-murder-hornets-as-hype/

Didn't they say the same thing about the corona virus?   It's just like the regular "common cold".  :duh: (:)
P. S. Grave digger volunteers needed worldwide.   :evilgrin0002: :P

https://nypost.com/2020/05/07/alabama-cop-caught-on-video-body-slamming-maskless-woman-in-walmart/

WWE is coming to Walmart.    :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 08, 2020, 03:16:00 PM
I see mystic moby couldn't control himself. Dragged out yet another imaginary friend to tell us all just how wrong we all are.

Better you deal with the facts, as IF you'd ever bothered to check, 'imaginary fwends', they ain't ... you really should check out companies house stuff before posting so daft ..

Even though he knows that we know his little game and he knows that e give it no credence he just can't help himself.

So, he fails on the ad hominem front and neglects to offer any counter ..

Mystic, we know that you're not in great shape but try to change things up a little. No need for the impossible so don't worry about trying honesty, just go for variety so that you at least offer a little bit of entertainment value.
'
'We' ( if you are seeking company for 'validation purposes') are always entertain with your 'estimations of others' off-board existence... 

IF you paid attention.. you'd know you are the entertainment value ..  what with your 'factual pronouncements' that are so oft and easily busted ... like 100k 'tests' .....

A 'test' is the act of testing someone .. not suggesting to have sent out 15 thousand of 'em to 'claim' a revised criteria for 'target achievement'..

Now, I was SO looking forward to telling us I was 'wrong' re the RU testing fails...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 09, 2020, 08:17:55 AM
Russia's Culture Minister O. Lyubimova has tested positive for Covid 19. She is the youngest member of the Russian cabinet and the only woman. She is now working remotely. Only appointed this year in January she replaced some dimwit.

Both Prime Minister M. Mishustin and Construction Minister V. Yakushev have been hospitalised with the virus.

Russia does seem to be in some sort of 'race' to be on the medal podium to have the most confirmed cases. I suspect like in the United States the virus is spreading to the farther regions/states.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 09, 2020, 01:55:57 PM
Quote
“She is a despicable human being,”
“A total of $60.23,”

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-nurse-steals-credit-card-dying-coronavirus-patient-20200507-2p3ihwwe7nfv5hddioyrlioau4-story.html

Not everyone on the front lines is a "hero".   There will always be traitors, deserters, etc.  Many will look to "inherit" from the gravely ill. 

 :dh: :biggrin: (:) :evilgrin0002: :money:

Quote
The reason may lie in an individual's genetic code. In particular, some researchers are focusing on the genes that determine the degree to which a particular receptor called ACE2 gets expressed in the body. That receptor is what the coronavirus binds to, and it can be found on the surface of cells throughout the body, including in our guts, lungs, hearts, and noses.
"ACE2 receptors seems to be the common thread, the unifying factor — whether you're young or old,"

"Not all alarm systems are created equal,"

https://news.yahoo.com/reason-why-people-very-sick-123900918.html

It's all in your genes.  All men are created equal?  a :biggrin: :snivel: :evilgrin0002: :scared0005:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 10, 2020, 01:06:39 AM
I suspect like in the United States the virus is spreading to the farther regions/states.


What WOULD we do without your weighty assumptions, AvHdB ?

SC lives in the SW corner of RU and her region has been at c.20 deaths and hovering under 2000 cases for a week .. if the figures are to be believed.

I don't see much evidence of enforced quarantine, self-distancing and mask wearing.  SC's mates think I'm paranoid re my 'protesting' at girlie meet-ups to go 'shopping' and my getting arsey when I make it clear I don't approve of any excursions to the mountains for 'shashlik' in the car..

There's a beefy guy on the promenade who has erected an outside gym and the girlies are queuing up to be 'trained' ...  :'(

The problem is nobody knows anyone who had the virus in town and they simply haven't wised up and don't take the treat seriously ...  Moscow and Piter are thousands of miles away .. as were Italy and Britain ..   ''what's all the fuss about?''...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 10, 2020, 05:52:22 AM
The bottom line is we can't stay locked up forever. It doesn't make sense on so many levels.

A rational approach is to protect the vulnerable, e.g elderly in nursing houses, those with underlying conditions, etc., and let the rest of us face the virus.

Yes, some will die unfortunately, but we can't run away from yet another virus and the collateral damage will be far, far worse if it continues.

If you want to stay in your house and continue to lockdown away from the bogeyman, have at it. But, your feelings, lack of critical thinking and cowardice in the name of savings lives do not override facts nor my desire to go out in the big bad world and face what's out there. There are hundreds of things that can kill me, it's called life.

Enough of the facts are in to make rational choices. I was for the lockdown in March as much was still unknown, not now. Science moves much faster these days and information shared travels at the speed of light.

I can safely say that living in what I call "house arrest" is NOT healthy mentally nor physically. It was cute at first posting silly memes and photos, but after almost 3 months in (for me), it isn't cute any more and it's certainly no way to live.

Set me free, I'm ready to face the music and I'm armed with facts and common sense. I'll take my chances.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 10, 2020, 06:22:13 AM
Danchik. you are at liberty to ignore the common sense you 'object' to and break the law... and see if your isolation scenery changes...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 10, 2020, 06:53:57 AM
Danchik, I am pretty much in agreement with you. The focus should be on making sure that health services can cope. That does mean that some degree of social interaction limitation is needed but overall we need to build immunity.

As we are seeing in Russia with extensive testing, many more people than expected have been infected and many more than expected have little to no symptoms.

The difficulty is finding the balance. It's not enough to say 'I'm all right Jack' and ignore those who are most at risk and I don't want to live in a society willing to write off hundreds of thousands of people even if they are old or in poor health.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 10, 2020, 07:55:33 AM
Boris has a speech at 7pm tonight. Most of it has been leaked to the media already. It is the first steps of easing the lockdown, Garden centres will open from Wednesday, limits removed for exercise, more people back to work. A gradual loosening has begun. The "stay at home" slogan has vanished in place of "be alert" but will still be said.

With what Danchik said above in mind, it's the same here, people were getting fed up. What Boris is doing is sanctioning what everybody has started to do anyway. The past couple of weeks the traffic on the road has been increasing and more people have been out and about. More businesses have reopened self-declaring themselves exempt (there's a lot of wiggle room in "home and hardware" for example).

It's the beginning of the end of lockdown. We won't see everything back to normal till next year I think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 10, 2020, 08:49:41 AM
Danchik. you are at liberty to ignore the common sense you 'object' to and break the law... and see if your isolation scenery changes...

ms, you are at liberty to continue to be stupid. In fact you are quite good at this.  tiphat

New cases are in most countries declining and while some leaders are fudging there numbers (up or down), for the near future the darkest days have passed. Yes in many ways the quarantine rules are being loosened, as they should be. While few politicians have stated this the restrictions were put in place to slow the spread of the virus and to prevent a worse case scenario from occurring. In different degrees most have seen how fragile the human ecology is.

As Manny notes it will be a new year before we return to some degree of normalcy. Fundamentally there has been a change to society as we knew it. For better or worse in one way globalization has slowed down and yet in other way humanity has found we all are tied together.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on May 10, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
 The majority of people have not been travelling around for over a couple months now and with the incubation period of the virus supposedly only being a couple weeks it's safe to say that most areas are fairly safe. It's not like there are a lot of people walking around anymore who unknowingly have it and are spreading it. You can't expect to keep everything shut down and to keep people cooped up in the house forever just because the virus is still active somewhere in your country. I'm sure it's at a point now where they can contain it wherever there are cases.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 10, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Danchik. you are at liberty to ignore the common sense you 'object' to and break the law... and see if your isolation scenery changes...

What would you propose Moby? That we hide away in our houses for the next couple years and expect our government to pay us money whilst business crashes around us?

The reality is, until a vaccine is found, approved and produced, we’re going to have to come out and play at some point, albeit with a different modus operandi. Lockdown was only to ensure the NHS didn’t become overwhelmed and thankfully it didn’t. So whether we get back to work next week or in July, the facts of the matter are, nothing will have changed except from us all being fatter, poorer and more alcoholic.

What I do expect from my government over the last 6 weeks, is a tiered process of how each of us will enter the new world. A direction of how offices, bars and cafes will look in order to be safer and at least stagger the workforce to some kind of part time schedule and get the economy moving again.

Whats clear today is that we’re no further forward now than we were 6 weeks ago. We’ve just protected the NHS and those advocating a longer lockdown at the tax payers expense haven’t yet understood the reality of the situation.

Ideally if all of us had been tested, we’d have a much better picture of exactly how deadly covid-19 really is. If for example we discovered that 90% of us had already been in contact t with it, then we could pretty much all get back to work under new guidelines.

I’m fairly sure I had it with very mild symptoms.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 10, 2020, 10:58:35 AM

As long as this virus exists, there will be limits on what we can do. No world leader has allowed the virus to run freely sickening much of its workforce when there's no proof of immunity. We will have to endure periodic lockdowns during outbreaks. This will be our way of life until a vaccine can be found and if found, it probably wouldn't be effective for 100% of the people. There hasn't been a vaccine ever found for a coronavirus in history. What would be the chances of getting it right the first time they find a vaccine?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 10, 2020, 11:07:25 AM
No world leader has allowed the virus to run freely sickening much of its workforce when there's no proof of immunity.

Isn't Belarus doing exactly that?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 10, 2020, 11:32:12 AM
@Rosco

While the number of new cases in Russia.. increase, why would expect a loosening of the stay at home orders?

In the UK, the govt has to balance, ending lives unnecessarily versus the economy / jobs.

You are a young man and your parents are not in the higher risk category... This might explain what I perceive is recklessness.


We ( UK) are not in the same place as six weeks ago.. the number of folks dying seems to be dropping, not rising, because of staying at home.. but 'we' do not know of a vaccine or even reliable tests or how to treat the various forms of COVID-19, from lung infections, blot clots, the effects on infants or if having had 'it' means you cannot catch a sl.different variant and are safe to resume a normal life.

Your 'govt.'..the national one, seems to be as split on the way forward and Manny's mate, Mr Hancock, might be made the fall guy.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 10, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
No world leader has allowed the virus to run freely sickening much of its workforce when there's no proof of immunity.

Isn't Belarus doing exactly that?

Belarus shut down schools for a short period of time. Although they haven't taken much action and the president has resisted taking action, there have been a few things done. Their curve continues to go up. We'll see how long their experiment lasts before getting exponentially out of control.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belarus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 10, 2020, 01:01:16 PM
@Rosco

While the number of new cases in Russia.. increase, why would expect a loosening of the stay at home orders?

In the UK, the govt has to balance, ending lives unnecessarily versus the economy / jobs.

You are a young man and your parents are not in the higher risk category... This might explain what I perceive is recklessness.


We ( UK) are not in the same place as six weeks ago.. the number of folks dying seems to be dropping, not rising, because of staying at home.. but 'we' do not know of a vaccine or even reliable tests or how to treat the various forms of COVID-19, from lung infections, blot clots, the effects on infants or if having had 'it' means you cannot catch a sl.different variant and are safe to resume a normal life.

Your 'govt.'..the national one, seems to be as split on the way forward and Manny's mate, Mr Hancock, might be made the fall guy.

I think you’ve misunderstood what I said Moby.

I’m not saying the deaths, cases or hospital occupancy is the same as it was 6 weeks ago. Im saying the virus and our perceived immunity from it is exactly the same. It will be in June and it will be in Autumn unless we have some kind of medical intervention.

Also I never mentioned Russia so I’m not exactly sure the point you’re trying to make?

I’ve seen mixed reactions up here in Scotland on Facebook, to the PM’s announcement. Some are slagging him off saying it’s too soon to leave our homes whilst others are receptive to a conditional easing of the lockdown.

Bearing in mind what I’ve just said above, I think we have no option but to slowly ease the lock down whilst taking into account safety measures and the possibility of national or regional lockdown upon spikes in cases.

It’s all we can do unless we get a vaccine or the virus miraculously disappears. The world we live in means a collapsed economy would do more harm than easing ourselves back to work.

Obviously I live in Scotland so I’ve been instructed to stay as was. I’ll be watching with interest to see what happens to you Guinea Pigs down south. I’ve not been overly critical of any government to date but I had expected a more detailed announcement from Boris. There’s more questions than answers after tonight’s speech.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on May 10, 2020, 01:24:12 PM
Moby figures as long as they keep you locked up, he gets a free Cheque
this is his specialty, getting stuff free. the gravy train is about to end,
he will have to resort back to scamming people.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 10, 2020, 03:46:49 PM
Obviously I live in Scotland so I’ve been instructed to stay as was. I’ll be watching with interest to see what happens to you Guinea Pigs down south. I’ve not been overly critical of any government to date but I had expected a more detailed announcement from Boris. There’s more questions than answers after tonight’s speech.

He was quite emphatic I noticed by mentioning he was the PM of the entire UK, naming them even. That sounded to me like a little dig at Nicola Sturgeon. Is Scotland taking her instructions over Boris? You are doing something different up there?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 10, 2020, 03:48:46 PM
Bill Gates' Messianic Grand Plan
for Vaccinating The Whole World




 :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 10, 2020, 04:17:29 PM
Obviously I live in Scotland so I’ve been instructed to stay as was. I’ll be watching with interest to see what happens to you Guinea Pigs down south. I’ve not been overly critical of any government to date but I had expected a more detailed announcement from Boris. There’s more questions than answers after tonight’s speech.

He was quite emphatic I noticed by mentioning he was the PM of the entire UK, naming them even. That sounded to me like a little dig at Nicola Sturgeon. Is Scotland taking her instructions over Boris? You are doing something different up there?

It’s been pretty much the same until now but I understand that devolved governments can do their own lockdown thing? Sturgeon already said today that we’ll pretty much continue as we were until the end of the month, unlike England.

Not sure how much further it could go but we already have different regs for schools etc so depending on what happens over the coming weeks with you guys, we’ll either follow suit or do our own thing.

Much of it’s political point scoring I’m sure but I had heard that Scotland was two weeks behind you guys and our curve may not have flattened yet? Sadly we’ve still got lots of people up here who criticise everything that comes out f BJ’s mouth, irrespective of the message whilst they re-post everything from Sturgeon without question.

All a bit sad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 10, 2020, 05:46:27 PM
Quote
In Florence, wrote Giovanni Boccaccio, “No more respect was accorded to dead people than would nowadays be accorded to dead goats.” Some hid in their homes. Others refused to accept the threat. Their way of coping, Boccaccio wrote, was to “drink heavily, enjoy life to the full, go round singing and merrymaking, and gratify all of one’s cravings when the opportunity emerged, and shrug the whole thing off as one enormous joke.”

“They are placed on the cots until every bed is full, yet others crowd in. Their faces soon wear a bluish cast, a distressing cough brings up blood stained sputum. In the morning the dead bodies are stacked up in the morgue like cord wood.”

The virus, he wrote, “demonstrated the inferiority of human inventions in the destruction of human life.”

Trying to define the end of the epidemic “will be a long and difficult process.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/how-pandemics-end/ar-BB13RsBN

 :GRAVE: :LIMP:

Quote
"When we found that one of the strongest biomarkers, ACE2, was much higher in men than in women, I realised that this had the potential to explain why men were more likely to die from COVID-19 than women," said Iziah Sama, a doctor at UMC Groningen who co-led the study.

ACE2 is a receptor on the surface of cells which binds to the new coronavirus and allows it to enter and infect cells.

Sama and Voors noted that as well as in the lung, ACE2 is found in the heart, kidneys, in tissues lining blood vessels, and in particularly high levels in the testes.

They said its presence in the testes might partially explain higher ACE2 concentrations in men, and why men are more vulnerable to COVID-19.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/men-high-levels-enzyme-key-230500943.html

This may explain why men are getting infected more than women.  Time to get that sex change operation.   :chuckle: :knit:  :happygirl1: :party0011: :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 11, 2020, 08:23:17 AM
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said  "China is leading in the research of COVID-19 vaccine and treatment.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fbi-dhs-to-accuse-china-of-trying-to-hack-coronavirus-researchers-reports/ar-BB13UiOc?ocid=spartanntp


China health authority to create stricter rules for laboratories handling dangerous pathogens.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chinas-health-authority-to-tighten-rules-on-laboratory-controls/ar-BB13U4JP?ocid=spartanntp


In other news, Iran is being Iran again. Just like the time they mistakenly shot down a Ukrainian passenger jet, this time they mistakenly sunk a ship. Probably practicing for the time they are ordered to sink an American aircraft carrier.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/iran-warship-accidentally-hit-missile-during-exercises-060502122.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 11, 2020, 07:27:35 PM
New article saying that the new drugs using to treat covid-19 do not work.

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-covid-19-drugs-us-fda-drug-trial-concludes-that-most-drugs-being-used-including-favipiravir,-lopinavir,-ritonavir,-chloroquine-has-no-effects
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 11, 2020, 11:26:03 PM
Quote
This April, the number of deaths statewide soared to 14,755, more than twice the average. In Bergen and Passaic counties, deaths nearly tripled, to 3,070.

Normally the cemetery performs about 40 burials and 190 cremations a month, Sciarrino said. This April, workers here buried 148 people. They cremated 448. To keep up, Sciarrino added another shift to his crew. Now the furnaces start at 5 a.m. Some nights they run till sunset.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/11/coronavirus-deaths-spike-nj-cemeteries-scramble-bury-dead/3107330001/

Quote
A new study has modeled how a sample of COVID-19 patients who died might have been expected to fare without an infection, and the results were stark.
The study, which is awaiting peer review, estimated that the average years of life lost for a sample of coronavirus patients in Italy when controlling for a set of common underlying conditions was 13 years for men and 11 years for women.
https://www.businessinsider.com/study-finds-that-people-who-have-coronavirus-could-die-10-years-early-2020-5

Quote
The study, which is still awaiting peer review to ensure accuracy and validity, confirms what should seem obvious, but is nevertheless sobering: COVID-19 is not killing people who are already near death, rather it's claiming the lives of many people more than a decade before their time.
"Clearly, there has been a school of thought that individuals that succumbed to COVID-19 are already seriously ill with minimal years of life left to live. This quantitative assessment clears up that misconception showing that years of life lost is over a decade.

"This finding holds even after adjusting for underlying chronic conditions," he added.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/people-coronavirus-dying-10-years-earlier-naturally-study/story?id=70511494


 :GRAVE: :'( :GRRRR:

To the pandemic deniers:  Volunteer grave diggers needed and take ten years off your  :censored: life span too.   >:(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 12, 2020, 01:41:28 AM

It's going to be hard enough to create the first ever vaccine for a coronavirus. Fauci delivers some bad news. He says we are going to need more than one vaccine.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anthony-fauci-says-more-than-one-coronavirus-vaccine-needed-to-end-pandemic/ar-BB13Wja9?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 02:27:25 AM
VERY confusing and conflicting advice ..

UK says folks from France and Ireland are welcome...

Rep of Ireland says "While Boris Johnson this week announced that people arriving into the UK from Ireland and France do not have to quarantine, such an exemption is not being reciprocated here.

Philip Ryan reports on new regulations which will give Gardaí the power to enforce a mandatory 14-day quarantine for all passengers who arrive in Ireland from overseas."  ( source Independant.ie)

So, someone can drive from France, enter the UK, take the Stranraer ferry from Scotland to N.Ireland and end up in the Rep. of Ireland..?!. :hidechair:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 02:28:21 AM
DUH, take the Liverpool- Belfast ferry ... it is still 'stay at home' in Scotland
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 12, 2020, 04:05:18 AM

Moby figures, like the PM of the UK, that keeping the infection rate down is the priority .. but having vastly different rules for different parts of the ‘United’ Kingdom …?   Not wise ..


You're correct in that keeping the infection rate down is a priority but the reality is, when R is reduced to 0.5-0.9, the priority begins to shift towards getting this country back on its feet. The government would be irresponsible to not start loosening the restrictions, easing the economy back and halting the economic disaster we're currently in, when the R rate is at said level. Squabbling over what R exactly is, would be pointless given how much we really know to be true. Economic hardship and poverty also causes suffering and needless death but handing out free cash forever simply isn't realistic.

Loosening these restriction is also dependant on specific criteria being met and if its not, we take a step back. That was all said quite clearly.

I watched PM's questions yesterdays and I thought Boris handled the questions regarding the differing attitudes towards easing the lockdown in different parts of the country. He said that it was prudent to tackle the virus as they saw fit in a county, regional and national way. i.e. the R isn't consistent across the UK so why shut down the whole country if only small pockets have the R about 1. He did well to avoid the trap because he was being set up for a power struggle with the devolved parliaments.

This is whats going to happen going forward, isolating outbreaks, without the whole country grinding to a halt. Obviously we need testing on a mass scale and regularly so we can react quickly but I understand thats the plan.

You saying we have 'vastly different rules for different parts of the Uk, isn't really true though is it. Boris could have and should have been clearer so those that find it difficult to understand words could keep up. I understood what he was saying and their exit strategy makes sense where the R is below 1.

I recall many people complaining that the government didn't have an exit strategy a few weeks ago, these same people are all now howling that its too soon. We're all a bit fed-up, frustrated or worried but right now, people are getting too upset with anything that comes from the government. Boris is only there to blame and shout at right now.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 04:58:17 AM
Rosco,

I am much worse off than I was in March, financially, but I cannot see an 'exit strategy' while there is no cure..

I rely on a healthy leisure industry.

Deaths in the UK are more than double the normal 5 week average and 'the 20k deaths or more would be unacceptable'....?

Try 40k... 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/12/almost-40-coronavirus-deaths-england-wales-are-care-homes-12689495/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/12/almost-40-coronavirus-deaths-england-wales-are-care-homes-12689495/)

The govt policy re English is totally unclear...

Example...sport...my sailing club banned social sailing..rightly so....now some members want to organise 'ad hoc' racing... The committee have contacted the RYA for advice...

Germany took her foot off the gas....

Now infection R rates are over 1, again...((

 "Chancellor Angela Merkel has explained that the goal is to remain under 1.0, because even a rate as low as 1.1, if unchecked, would overwhelm the health care system by October. Ms. Merkel has said restrictions can be reimposed if the numbers worsen."

Do YOU know, 'for certain' that having had 'it' that you are 'immune....?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/world/coronavirus-news.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/world/coronavirus-news.html)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 12, 2020, 06:06:05 AM
Deaths in the UK are more than double the normal 5 week average

Being disingenuous again?

"In England and Wales, the very latest data has just been published on the number of all deaths registered in the week ending March 13 - which was 11,019 people. This was some 186 fewer than in that same week over the course of the last five years."

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-how-the-current-number-of-people-dying-in-the-uk-compares-to-the-past-decade-134420

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 06:10:30 AM
Manny, let's deal with more recent weeks..

https://www.ft.com/content/40fc8904-febf-4a66-8d1c-ea3e48bbc034

"This represented the seventh consecutive week that deaths exceeded normal levels and once equivalent figures from Scotland and Northern Ireland were included, takes total mortality across the UK during the pandemic to 50,979."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 12, 2020, 06:13:24 AM
Wuhan had six new cases that were not imported from out side the city. They are starting to test everyone in the city for the virus over a ten day period to try to catch all the cases and bring the virus under control again. They are using a new type of test that can catch the virus at an earlier stage than the original test were able to do. They hope to trace each case they find to it's source and learn more about the disease and what it will take to control it better.   

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wuhan-to-test-all-residents-for-coronavirus-in-10-days-after-new-cases-emerge/ar-BB13X5Ps

The president's man who heads our response to the virus, Doctor Fauci, testified in front of congress and says that some US states are opening up too soon with too little controls and will experience a relapse of the virus. The president guide lines are not being followed in some states and they are seeing increasing cases and continue to open up more anyway. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fauci-plans-to-use-hearing-to-warn-of-needless-suffering-and-death/ar-BB13X0nh

Report claims that in New York the death toll is 24,000 plus only 19,000 died from the virus. The other 5,000 died from  social distancing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nyc-coronavirus-death-toll-may-be-much-higher-says-cdc-report-while-nationwide-count-tops-80000/ar-BB13X5Px?li=BBnbfcL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 06:32:41 AM
Dmitry Peskov..VVP's press spokesman has 'it'....

https://www.rt.com/russia/488442-perskov-coronavirus-kremlin-positive/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 06:38:24 AM

Being disingenuous again?


Manny is the one misrepresenting ...

Did we have many cases in March ? ..

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/D10A/production/_112241535_optimised-uk_mortality_v_average11may-nc.png)

Look at the figures for April  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 12, 2020, 06:54:57 AM
Manny,youve been infected with the misleading information virus. Don't worry, there's a cure - updated knowledge!

Week ending 15th March only 43 people had died of Covid-19 in the UK. This was before covid-19 had started to rise significantly. By March 22 there were 250 deaths, March 29 was 1669, April 5th was at 5865. By April 12 there were 12 285 deaths. Then at the subsequent week ends were 18,492, 24 055, 28,446, 31,855 dead of Covid-19.

If we are just past the peak of deaths, which seems likely, then we can expect a further 30k deaths in the coming weeks and months during this outbreak.

Lots of extra deaths.

Your misleading information virus has just been treated with a vaccination!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 12, 2020, 07:13:18 AM
In the United States for the first time in perhaps six weeks there were less than 20,000 new infections. While deaths are still increasing eventually this will also start decreasing. What seems to be increasing is the recovery rate or percentage of discharges from medical facilities. Doctors are developing more effective treatment regimes. Unfortunately it is based on trial and error.

On another positive front there have been no school shootings recently.

Sadly Russia is still seeing over 10,000 new infections per day and will most likely claim the 'second place'. I have a suspicion there medical facilities are being overwhelmed more so than say Spain or Italy was.

As an opinion (mine) it is hard to approach a country whether Russia or the United States as a single entity. It is in fact diverse regions and micro countries. If one removes New York Cities number (infections & deaths) from the equation than there is a dramatic decrease in the numbers of the United States. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 12, 2020, 08:40:02 AM
Avhdb, you're right about the idea that countries have multiple regions with different characteristics. Problem is that the USA is looking at the totality, including New York as though those regions were in the same position on the curve.

As I noted the other day, the places in the USA that seem to have low numbers just haven't reached the same point on the curve as New York. The reopening of stated across the USA is, given that knowledge, hugely premature.

This is why, in the UK, a regional approach is being designed - even though the issue is much less evident over there due to population density and complexity of communication and travel. In the USA, population centres are much more island like due to distances and travel modes.

I don't think that Russia is being overwhelmed on a structural level. High case numbers are being found due to a huge level of testing but as you can see from their data a large part of those people are asymptomatic and so just need quarantine to keep them from transmitting infection. You can see that from the relatively low ratio of positive to negative tests and the numbers of critical hospital admissions.

Like the USA, Russia is a dispersed network of population centres, but with even less interconnection than the USA.

I shared the numbers of positive and negative tests the other day. Russia, even with huge testing is much lower than the USA. In Estonia, the ratio is now down to 0.3% and they are moving to open up quite rapidly. Shopping centres opened up on Monday and we never had the enforced stay at home stuff of most countries. That ratio is really important - it's the product of a low R0 figure.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 09:57:48 AM


I don't think that Russia is being overwhelmed on a structural level.

'OK' then you cannot be reading the reports from Moscow and some regions where they have been overwhelmed, lacking in PPE kit ( not confined to RU ) and staff being shit scared and not being paid the promised extra money.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 12, 2020, 12:24:36 PM
Read my words mystic. Get back to me about what you don't understand. Because it is clear that either you did not understand what you read or you are being dishonest - again.

Which is it mystic? Dishonesty or stupidity?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 12, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Read my words mystic. Get back to me about what you don't understand. Because it is clear that either you did not understand what you read or you are being dishonest - again.

Which is it mystic? Dishonesty or stupidity?

WHY can't andrewfi just put his hands up when busted for proving HE doesn't know anything about Russia ... ?   Std 'response' ... "you didn't understand what I meant" :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 12, 2020, 09:48:13 PM
Quote
“We are on the threshold simply of a collapse in health personnel,”

https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-now-us-total-number-coronavirus-cases/story?id=70638554

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-workers-badly-hit-russia-coronavirus-hotspot/story?id=70580879


Russia is second again to the US.   :chuckle: (:)

Quote
Like the coronavirus, there is no cure for the disease, though researchers have been trying for decades to develop a vaccine — a sobering prospect for those expecting a COVID-19 vaccine to be ready in less than two years.
"It's sort of a cautionary tale while we're searching for a COVID-19 vaccine," said Dr. Leong Hoe Nam, an infectious diseases expert at Mount Elizabeth Novena Hospital in Singapore.
"Vaccines don't always behave the way we want them to."


https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-overshadows-another-dangerous-viral-235724877.html

Viruses (the "micro terminators") come in many different genetic makeup, just like humans.   :evilgrin0002: :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 13, 2020, 03:15:50 AM
Read my words mystic. Get back to me about what you don't understand. Because it is clear that either you did not understand what you read or you are being dishonest - again.

Which is it mystic? Dishonesty or stupidity?

WHY can't andrewfi just put his hands up when busted for proving HE doesn't know anything about Russia ... ?   Std 'response' ... "you didn't understand what I meant" :chuckle:

Let me summarize and not use perfect quotations because I understood everything , when you think andrew was 'wrong':

AndrewFI : I don't believe Russia was overwhelmed on a structural level
MsMOBY: But some regions are, lacking ppe and staff being scared/overworked.
AndrewFI: I am not talking about specific regions, but about a structural country-wide level. (although worded differently).

Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 13, 2020, 04:50:36 AM
Thanks Mark for saying what I couldn't be arsed to say.

Undoubtedly, at times, in specific locations and in respect of specific resources, the Russian health care system reached maximum levels. That's normal in any system.

If one goes to McDonald's to buy a Happy Meal, sometimes the toys have run out. The lack of toys, in that outlet, at that time, does not mean that McDonald's has failed, that the system behind the global franchising network has failed. Anyone who made such a suggestion would be laughed at.

The same is true of health care in Russia, just as in the UK.

Words have meanings, I wrote carefully and accurately. I think mystic knows this, after all his mummy told him how clever he was when he was a kid. Thus, it is likely mystic moby was being dishonest with us because he understood what I wrote and knows that the Russian health care system has not had a systematic failure although some parts of the system have been pushed hard and have hit maxima in some places and in respect of some resources.

In some places, there were not enough happy meals toys on a busy Saturday afternoon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 13, 2020, 06:31:26 AM
*I* do not believe for a second that was what you were trying to state..  You ( constantly) post as if you know a situation and clearly don't and this.. like your 'ambulances weren't queuing with patients'  in Moscow, was another example of you getting busted..

Your analogy using McDonald's sucks as the grown-ups amongst us are discussing hospitals being able to cope in relation to patient numbers and availability of adequate PPE.

Russia has had longer to prepare and FAR less people go to and from Russia and movement between regional cities is less than in densely populated W.Europe.

My pointing out the issues you STILL wish to ignore is not a purely Russian issue.. the UK and US have had more warnings and 'experimented' until graphic warnings of models showing scary numbers of fatalities and swamping of the health services became clear.

Nations that actually tracked and traced have been able to lift the foot off the brakes and seem to be seeing rises in cases...  I'd not be to keen to be 'doing an England' , too soon....  The other three UK nations and Rep. of Ireland are handling this better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 13, 2020, 08:25:29 AM
USA to start at home testing for coronavirus. This is going to be in addition to the regular testing we are doing. They are starting off with 30,000 test per day and are hoping to ramp up after they get more labs approved to handle the testing.  This is going to be a saliva test where the patient spits into a test tube and then sends it is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 13, 2020, 02:47:07 PM
Calls to ARREST Fauci as Covid 19
CRUSHES world Economy




What They Don’t Want You To Know About Covid-19.
Dropping Bombs (Ep 264) | Dr. Rashid Buttar



Judicial Watch files lawsuit seeking Dr. Fauci, WHO records


BTW These are not Greek evidence.... or conspiracy theories.....

USA and China were/are together in this
criminal action that destroyed the world economy.

The end of the American Exceptional Empire cone to an end.....
earlier than it was expected before!

That Mafia boss is useless and not going to get a job as an actor........
he lost it when the reporter asked him the question!


 :evilgrin0002: tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 13, 2020, 03:02:29 PM
Wiz, this is the sort of bollox 'Cornfed' would post ..

Surely you ain't falling for this 'dead cat' diversionary codswallop ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 13, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
I noted something along these lines a month ago.

WHO says coronavirus could become endemic like HIV

There were over 4.26 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide as of Wednesday morning.

The World Health Organization says the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 could become endemic like HIV. "It is important to put this on the table: this virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities, and this virus may never go away," WHO emergencies expert Mike Ryan told an online briefing on Wednesday, May 13, Reuters reported.

According to him, the disease may "settle into a long problem, or it may not be." However, he said the world had some control over how it coped with the disease, although this would take a "massive effort" even if a vaccine was found – a prospect he described as a "massive moonshot." As UNIAN reported earlier, there were over 4.26 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide as of Wednesday morning. The global death toll was almost 292,000 people, over 1.49 million patients have recovered.

From a Reuters news feed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 14, 2020, 04:44:05 AM
Mystic, if you are telling me that you don't understand written English then, I'm sorry but I don't believe you. You're lying - again.

Lying is a systemic issue in your character. Lying and dishonesty are a part of every aspect of your life.

Dishonesty is, for you, a systemic issue. A systemic failure.

That you are also stupid is also a problem. Stupid is your thinking that you can get away with your systemic dishonesty.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 14, 2020, 05:17:57 AM
I noted something along these lines a month ago.

WHO says coronavirus could become endemic like HIV

There were over 4.26 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide as of Wednesday morning.

The World Health Organization says the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 could become endemic like HIV. "It is important to put this on the table: this virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities, and this virus may never go away," WHO emergencies expert Mike Ryan told an online briefing on Wednesday, May 13, Reuters reported.

According to him, the disease may "settle into a long problem, or it may not be." However, he said the world had some control over how it coped with the disease, although this would take a "massive effort" even if a vaccine was found - a prospect he described as a "massive moonshot." As UNIAN reported earlier, there were over 4.26 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide as of Wednesday morning. The global death toll was almost 292,000 people, over 1.49 million patients have recovered.

From a Reuters news feed.

Who is controlling Reuters news ?   More Zionist trolling!

You are copying the TM Swerve of Moby! Is that the new  line from Haifa?

Did you watch the Videos and you don't like what you hear?

It is all American...... not Greek made videos......

Sorry I forgot that 6 large US based Zionist Corporations control the whole MSM over there in USA.


 :P :P :P tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 14, 2020, 05:42:50 AM
Mystic, if you are telling me that you don't understand written English then, I'm sorry but I don't believe you.

Given that is EXACTLY what you're trying to do .. the rest of your post .. given your constantly busted assertions as to:

1/ Recovering Rouble - same place now as it was in 2014

2/ How Oligarchs got rich ( according to andrewfi is wasn't buying up vouchers [ shares] in former Soviet industry on the cheap  :chuckle:

3/ Ambulances that 'weren't queing u to deliver patients

4/ Your serial fails ... 'alfonso' ( ? ) re folks off board existence

5/ The 'death of the Russian bride' - given the market moved on and you got left behind


I think I'm pretty safe in the veracity stakes - compared to you... :coffeeread:


In the meantime, the 'tests' that the UK govt promised to carry out were proven to be too much and the much vaunted 100k /day turned out to be EXACTLY as this 'fibber' suggested ... BS

FAIL..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/09/lab-issues-force-government-fly-50000-coronavirus-tests-us/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/09/lab-issues-force-government-fly-50000-coronavirus-tests-us/)

50,000 coronavirus tests secretly flown to the US after UK lab issues
The Department of Health admitted last night that the samples were sent last week

Britain has been secretly flying tens of thousands of coronavirus tests to America as it struggles to lift the daily testing rate over 100,000 a day in the UK, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.

The Department of Health admitted last night that 50,000 test samples were sent to the US last week as problems were reported in laboratories in the UK. The samples were airlifted across the Atlantic in chartered flights from Stansted airport.

The Government insisted that "all results will be returned to patients as quickly as possible".

The UK has failed to hit the hundred thousand a day target for testing for each of the past seven days, and only hit the 100,000 a day target by the end of last month by mailing 40,000 testing kits to people at home....



https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/doubts-raised-after-uk-government-2196005 (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/doubts-raised-after-uk-government-2196005)

Doubts raised after UK Government claims to have hit 100,000 coronavirus test per day target

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said that the Government had tested more than 120,000 people in 24 hours - but its method of counting has been called into question.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/E654/production/_112246985_test_targets-alt-nc.png)

Even the UK's very own "Statistical regulator... the UK Statistics Authority has written to Health Secretary Matt Hancock to ask for clarification of whether that target is for testing capacity, the number of tests administered, the number of tests completed or the number of people tested.


Gosh, andrewfi, aren't there a 'lot of stupid, dishonest' people who keep asking Mr Hancock awkward questions..?  He should appoint you as his spokesman  :coffeeread:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 14, 2020, 07:14:47 PM
14 May 2020    at 23.00 GMT

[attachimg=1]

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 15, 2020, 12:53:15 AM
Wiz' was there a point you were making when reproducing 'data' from a source you 'forgot' to source... given you reminded me when I forgot ?

I raise the 'data' as the UK numbers are bogus ..  it is known 'our' figure is more likely closer to 50k ..

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab (https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-live-uk-lockdown-boris-johnson-update-new-cases-death-toll-a9511431.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-live-uk-lockdown-boris-johnson-update-new-cases-death-toll-a9511431.html)


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8311579/UK-announces-coronavirus-deaths.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8311579/UK-announces-coronavirus-deaths.html)

For those in denial.. I used a spectrum of UK media, so none of the usual 'biased Moby' can be suggested ..noting that the DM tries to downplay the 50K to 45k.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 15, 2020, 06:16:19 AM


fear mongers unite!  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 15, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
The Purpose of the Lockdown Covid 19 was to spread Fear to the population!

Same fear mongering behaviour is going all over the world and also also in Greece. But there are some presenters who question their orders......

Actually the Greeks are very funny and inventive.  Last month on the 19 April it was the Greek Easter but the Daily medical officer together with Political advisor of the Government......ordered them to stay home, closed the churches down and also told then not to cook lamb on the spit, usual Greek custom at Easter.

So the same night that he made the forbidden actions.... somebody modified and recorded as song asking the Government Representative By his NAME Hardalias, what shall we can do now.....

Then early hours in the morning was published and all station got a copy so you can imagine....... all day were playing the song for fun.

(http://marketnews.gr/uploads/marketnews_xardalias_nikos.jpg)

Minister of Civil Protection and Crisis Management Nikos Hardalias

I asked Hardalias where to celebrate Paschalia EASTER
 (funny song, viral video for the coronavirus)


Greece: Athens residents restricted from attending Easter Sunday services

Greek citizens have been prohibited from attending Easter Sunday services on Saturday night in Athens amid the COVID-19 lockdown.

Footage shows the streets of vibrant Athens completely deserted as the country marks the Easter Sunday celebrations according to the Greek Orthodox tradition. Residents can also be seen with candles at their balconies.

Greek police were positioned outside churches to ask passers-by for their appropriate documentation to be outside, as the Greek government introduced a strict national lockdown to stop the spread of the COVID-19 over four weeks ago and has been extended over the Easter celebrations to curb the outbreak.

Despite the lockdown, residents were able to light candles with the traditional Holy Fire, which was placed outside at least one church. Tens of thousands of worshippers normally attend the ceremony at the Holy Sepulchre, which is believed to hold the tomb in which Jesus lay two thousand years ago.


And that was the reply to his order to lock down at home"


The Greeks do not change their customs .......
and they still have a small number of infected and Dead people Today!

Greece   2,810 Infected   New +40   Dead 160


If I was there I would have also joined them......for the fun.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on May 15, 2020, 10:51:00 PM
 Did we ruin our economies for nothing?  :coffeeread:


https://fee.org/articles/why-sweden-s-covid-19-strategy-is-quietly-becoming-the-world-s-strategy/?fbclid=IwAR2aTLmPq0oGFy8QHQ8bhfF-dRFJE-m8AQbnJz3vK6hD01_9bFWj9oc_mcw

In a sense, Sweden has become a coronavirus touchstone. Critics point out that Sweden’s per capita COVID-19 death rate is higher than several of its Scandanivan neighbors—Finland, Denmark, and Norway. Proponents point out that Sweden’s death rate is lower than many of its European neighbors—Belgium, France, the United Kingdom, Spain, and Italy—who initiated strict lockdowns. Proponents also point out that Sweden has “flattened the curve,” noting that the nation of 10 million has not seen its hospitals overrun or experienced medical equipment shortages.

The social and economic costs of these lockdowns are clear—and staggering: tens of millions of jobs suddenly gone, Great Depression-level unemployment, and nations around the world staggering into recessions. (The psychological toll of the shutdowns is harder to quantify, but media reports show suicide prevention hotlines are seeing record surges.)

While there is little debate about the social and economic costs of the lockdowns, their benefits are less clear, evidenced by Sweden and other states that have eased lockdowns and not seen an explosion in deaths. In fact, several scholars have argued that data suggest lockdowns haven’t worked at all
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 16, 2020, 02:34:21 AM
TEN times more people have died needlessly in Sweden compared to countries to which it is physically attached ..

I'd seriously worry about some 'experts'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 16, 2020, 02:39:17 AM
Did we ruin our economies for nothing?  :coffeeread:
Yes we are/have.

In a sense, Sweden has become a coronavirus touchstone. Critics point out that Sweden’s per capita COVID-19 death rate is higher than several of its Scandanivan neighbors—Finland, Denmark, and Norway. Proponents point out that Sweden’s death rate is lower than many of its European neighbors—Belgium, France, the United Kingdom, Spain, and Italy—who initiated strict lockdowns. Proponents also point out that Sweden has “flattened the curve,” noting that the nation of 10 million has not seen its hospitals overrun or experienced medical equipment shortages.
What often gets overlooked is that Sweden admittedly said they made a mistake not initially protecting their nursing homes where over 50% of their deaths occurred. And their nursing home population is many times bigger than Norway, Findland, etc.

Otherwise the numbers are fairly consistent with their neighbors.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 16, 2020, 02:47:54 AM
The Purpose of the Lockdown Covid 19 was to spread Fear to the population!

Say wack jobs like the US version of Alex Jones.. I mean, come on .. who believes such 'info' ?

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/834/cpsprodpb/3649/production/_112279831_inowarsfalse.jpg)

"Mr Jones says anyone who tests positive for Covid-19 at the time of their death - be it due to "cancer", "sky-diving accidents" or "shark attacks" - is being recorded as a death due to coronavirus."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52665099 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52665099)


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 16, 2020, 02:55:36 AM
This is my last “rant” on the corona virus.

I have never said to just open the gates and let the dogs out. Even if I think it's the best thing to do the general mindset of people around this virus is too spooked.

Naturally, a tiered, measured approach seems the most feasible.

And please stop with the holier than thou act about how much we need to protect/save everyone we can from this virus at all cost and trying to show this forum what a caring, selfless soul you are (Moby) who cherishes all living things. Cut me a f'n break.

It's also just myopic thinking. We need to look at the big picture.

Sure, we need to balance things with respect to all. We can’t mitigate the virus to 0 deaths.

This is the 5th or 6th respiratory corona virus that mankind has dealt with in history and the first where society has locked down. Why? Because we didn't want to overload the healthcare system. I get it.

Ok, but 2-3 months later when you have the vast majority of hospitals furloughing their staff because of lack of patients, and other critical care patients health is being compromised, one starts to wonder.

When you have hospitals being incentivized for listing any death as a corona virus death to skew the numbers, then you have to wonder.

When grocers or hardware stores are open and you can mingle with 100's of people and handle products touched by thousands of others, that is somehow safer than going to a cafe and having a cup with a friend where social distancing is all but built in, how exactly? Or a nail salon where people can choose to come in or not?

When did being locked in your house for months become healthy? The data now suggests that the majority of new cases are from staying inside and that the probability to catch the virus outside, especially as temperatures get warmer, is almost nil. There is no proof, NONE, that being lockdown works.

When did putting 20-30 million people out of work become healthy? And I really fear more for people when the shit hits the fan in 6-12 months economically and we start to see a huge spike in suicides, DV, sexual abuse, etc. that will affect 1000 times the amount of people this virus affects. It's already happening BTW.

The UN reported this week they expect a billion people to return to poverty and that starvation, especially with children will drastically increase.

We are now moving to a world where the minority rules the majority, to the point where even groups like LBGQT or whatever the acronym is dictates where people piss. Where abortions in America have reached close to a million BABIES a year, but it's swept under the rug.

Where 400k die from cancer and another 400K from heart disease (and that's in America alone), and millions die from hunger around the world, yet we're inundated by the MSM about corona where the worldwide death toll is around 250K (sorry but I think this number is skewed higher) and all of a sudden we're afraid to live.

A FB book friend who wasn't even alive then showed me a photo from the famed rock concert Woodstock that had a caption that read "in 1968 the H3N2 flu virus (Hong Kong flu) killed 1 million people worldwide and over 100K in the US and New York held a rock concert during its height where almost half a million people came to watch. No businesses were closed and no lockdown happened". The world's population at that time was 2 billion.

I could go on but you get the picture.

I, like Rosco, also think I might have had this virus. About a month ago I came down with something that was a little off from a normal cold or flu. I had a fever with some chills, but it was the intense headaches that accompanied the other symptoms that seemed a bit strange. It was all but gone after 3 days.

History has shown us that ALL of these respiratory viruses have eventually burned themselves after herd immunity. Science tells us that these types of viruses are 99% the same, so while they differ to some degree, they all act the same in the end; they burn themselves out.

Waiting for a vaccine is useless as we haven't seen a vaccine to be more than 30% effective for any virus that has been around for a decade or more. What makes you think that all of a sudden scientists will develop a cure for this?

The only time I got a flu vaccine was about 20 years ago, and guess what? I got the flu afterwards. That's why I stopped getting them.

However, excuse me for thinking that something has smelt fishy from the start with this virus. As I said, I was all for the initial lockdown as there was much to learn that nobody knew about this virus.

Again, not saying this isn't serious, just some perspective here because I think collectively as a society many have lost their's. This is what propaganda does. Over 99% of people recover from the virus once they get it and 90% of the unfortunate whom have died are over 80 years old.

I'm about to cancel my subscription to the LA Times. Mainly, because I don't agree with much of what they write about, but also because almost every article is about corona. I actually saw one headline where it read "How to make delicious chocolate brownies during the corona virus". WTF? And where 10 of their top 12 articles had the word corona virus in it.

The CDC, and I think it was Dr Fauci himself who said back in January that this year was shaping up to be one of if not the worst year for the flu, even worse than 2018 where 80K died in the US from the flu. What happened to the flu?  NO reporting at all on it. I guess they were marked down as covid 19 deaths.

There was a video sent to me by an acquaintance of some guy on CNN or some cable network discussing the stock market. The irony of the video was while this guy was showing how the stock market was rising pretty consistently during the corona crisis with a green arrow pointing its trajectory up (and a vast majority in America wrongly equate a healthy stock market to a healthy economy), the caption scrolling below showed that there are now 20 million people on unemployment. Nice transfer of wealth from that peanut stimulus package. Unbelievable.

Something else is going on here. What started out as a potential deadly virus has morphed its way into a much bigger exercise of transferring wealth, abuse of power, and a test to see how easy it is to get the sheeple to believe anything its government says.

And when did we start to trust governments?


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 16, 2020, 02:57:06 AM
What often gets overlooked is that Sweden admittedly said they made a mistake not initially protecting their nursing homes where over 50% of their deaths occurred. And their nursing home population is many times bigger than Norway, Findland, etc.

Otherwise the numbers are fairly consistent with their neighbors.

Let's have a source for this 'statistic', please ? .. 

I've been to all these nations and certainly do not notice any difference in family attitudes re the elderly and care homes...#

S.European countries tend to keep their elderly relative close at hand

FACT: Sweden had 10 times more COVID-19 fatalities than locked down Finland or Norway ..  Try putting a price on those lives foreshortened to a relative.


Next you'll be suggesting Swedes have 'herd immunity'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on May 16, 2020, 04:36:15 AM
With you all the way Dan....

Utter stupidity what has been done with because of this so called "Nasty Virus"..

Many countries economies are well screwed and could take years to get back to where they were last year..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 16, 2020, 05:24:10 AM
Gypo, this is EXACTLY the sort of daft post I'd expect of you..

Given the UK govt HAD to lock us down given the 'models' they saw and c.FIFTY THOUSAND and a doubling of the death rate ( mid april ) and an average of NINE years life expectancy removed from the Italian victims, they'd have been accused of mass murder

Tell us, please, what you 'thought' might have happened without such measures ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 16, 2020, 05:57:59 AM
This is my last “rant” on the corona virus.

And when did we start to trust governments?

I would say rave on, you are one of the view voices of sanity with a healthy sceptism of what we all hear and read.

As for governments and leaders I know myself well enough that somewhat like Steveboy I trust no government.


 tiphat      :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 16, 2020, 09:25:08 AM
This is my last “rant” on the corona virus.

And when did we start to trust governments?

I would say rave on, you are one of the view voices of sanity with a healthy sceptism of what we all hear and read.

As for governments and leaders I know myself well enough that somewhat like Steveboy I trust no government.


 tiphat      :thumbsup:

like Steveboy I trust no government.. I don't even trust my mother.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 16, 2020, 09:51:35 AM
Danchik

Excellent commentary about the current world situation and the effects  of the Corona Virus in the life of the People of this planet.

Please continue and I hope that sanity will comeback to this board again.

Well done and congratulations for your style.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Olga_Mouse on May 16, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Many valid points - well summarised, Danchik  :party0031:

The only time I got a flu vaccine was about 20 years ago, and guess what? I got the flu afterwards. That's why I stopped getting them.
Nearly the same here. Was doing vaccinations regularly until October 2013  :HOSPITAL: Was sick at least once every winter, for 7 days approx. In February 2014 particularly bad.
Since then - no flu vaccinations, and guess what? If I do still get my usual cold \ flu once a year, it lasts 3-4 days, and is pretty mild.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on May 16, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
I tend to agree with Danchik

this is getting stupid, becareful, sure but open it up.
If you're that scared, you stay home locked up.
after all it is a choice we all get to make.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 16, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
How the "Trump virus" killed the reputation of the USA!

(https://www.kalami.us/2020/images/geloiografia-trump.jpg)

The simple truth about the Coronavirus Covid 19 and the Disaster in the US.

When the covid-19 virus appeared first in China in December 2019, in the United States, a permanent issue was the "removal of Trump." There were few reports in the MSN media about the virus and its deadly effects but not much was done from  the US government to fight the virus and its deadly fast transmission.

In January 2020, when the virus spread to Europe and the first cases appeared in the United States, the "removal of Trump" wat at its peak. On 6 February 2020, the day the Senate voted Not to "remove" the president, the first victim of the virus was reported in California, as it turned out recently.

The "enemy" was already inside the United States and was spreading fast. The president was telling us "it's the flu, it will pass". Then in March, the USA Nation was hit hard, it was unprepared,  as if it was a third world country.

Anything else he now says ..it is to cover his ass!

 tiphat

PS: Image above is ..... from a Greek site!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2020, 07:51:12 PM

There are late night commercials telling people they are entitled to compensation if they took certain medications in the past. These medications have been through years of vigorous clinical trials and after 5 or 10 years, they say "Whoops! We messed up and those drugs are actually dangerous to the human body."

I'm all for doctors being allowed to give drugs in emergency situations but they disagree with what drug to give to a person as a last resort. Some will choose HCQ and others will choose something else. Why? Because there is no evidence whatever they're using is a safe and effective treatment for someone diagnosed with COVID-19. NOTHING. It's a matter of opinion. I can find a doctor and someone on Fox News that will say they know a safe and effective treatment but it doesn't make it true. There has never been a safe and effective treatment found for ANY coronavirus in history. To think they are going to magically find something sitting in their medicine cabinet is nuts. Every medicine we have has been designed for something else. There is no medicine designed to fight a coronavirus. They've tried before such as on SARS and MERS and they've failed.

Same with vaccines. No vaccines ever been found for a coronavirus. Governments are under great pressure to deliver results so there will be rush to deliver. Standard procedures for testing safety and effectiveness will be throw out the window. If a vaccine is invented, most likely it will not be effective for 100% of the people. They can't even get the test kits right and those are easier to create than a vaccine. Who knows? After we all get our shots, 5 years from now we may be entitled to some compensation because we're all F'd up. By the time we split the money from the government and court approved settlement, we'll each get $6.92 and have to live with Joe Biden disease for the rest of our lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on May 16, 2020, 08:50:23 PM
Danchik

Excellent commentary about the current world situation and the effects  of the Corona Virus in the life of the People of this planet.

Please continue and I hope that sanity will comeback to this board again.

Well done and congratulations for your style.

 :thumbsup:

 I agree, well said Danchik
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 17, 2020, 02:02:56 AM
Manny, WHY do you feel the need to protect those posting THE  daftness notions re vaccinations ?

[Reply: some of your posts are not approved due to spacing and formatting issues]

I asked Miss Mouse and Danchik if they had had kids, as their suspicion of vaccinations was pure IGNORANCE - given the late nineties / early noughties ( totally unfounded ) suggestion that the MMR vaccine 'could cause autism'

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/no-link-between-mmr-and-autism-major-study-finds/ (https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/no-link-between-mmr-and-autism-major-study-finds/)

NOT giving one's kids such vaccinations puts them and other kid's lives at FAR more risk ...  as could be seen in Ukraine, recently.

http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/measles-and-rubella/news/news/2020/01/strengthening-response-to-measles-outbreak-in-ukraine (http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/measles-and-rubella/news/news/2020/01/strengthening-response-to-measles-outbreak-in-ukraine)

In normal circumstances, vaccines are tested for years before being foisted on us... There is a fantastic record of near elimination of deaths from diseases that pre vaccination, killed in the millions...and many of those diseases were eradicated

So WHAT if you catch a mild form after being vaccinated... isn't that the point .. it was MILD ..?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 17, 2020, 02:16:59 AM
This is my last “rant” on the corona virus.
Well good, because Usually you talk sense but now you're being very obtuse.


This is the 5th or 6th respiratory corona virus that mankind has dealt with in history and the first where society has locked down. Why? Because we didn't want to overload the healthcare system. I get it.

Ok, but 2-3 months later when you have the vast majority of hospitals furloughing their staff because of lack of patients, and other critical care patients health is being compromised, one starts to wonder.
That proves the lockdown is working actually. Some countries (like Netherlands) choose for a "voulentary" lockdown mixed with mandatory on some fields (sex workers, bars, health clubs, etc.).

This seems to have been the best approach, our numbers are the same as most countries with the exception of Germany (Mandatory lockdown all the way).

Germanies numbers are the best in all of Europe. Their deathtoll is so low it is hard to believe the official numbers.


When you have hospitals being incentivized for listing any death as a corona virus death to skew the numbers, then you have to wonder.
But that isn't what happened, and many more covid deaths are not listed as they happened outside of healthcare. The official numbers can be interpreted as guidelines at best and not an exact number.

When grocers or hardware stores are open and you can mingle with 100's of people and handle products touched by thousands of others, that is somehow safer than going to a cafe and having a cup with a friend where social distancing is all but built in, how exactly? Or a nail salon where people can choose to come in or not?
Yes it is, why can't you understand that simple fact.
- The grocery stores can limit the number of people inside effectivly (and they did so in netherlands).
- Grocery stores can create distance between shoppers easily by making those huge store-carts mandatory (as they did in Netherlands).
- All packages arriving in stores are rigorously washed with bleach where possible (most plastic wrapped are, as are all the glass jars and metal containers.)

so any virus is wiped out before entering the store. So the number of hands that could infect you is severely limited to store personel only and they are wearing gloves. I know this because I asked my grocery shop how they dealt with the hygiene aspect of the virus instead of relying on 'thought-trains' on the internet. So all those people claiming 'hundreds of hands' didn't bother to check if they were right.

I don't know how America/Russia handle this , but I am talking about Netherlands of course.

Some people even bleached their groceries when they got home. Hard to bleach your hands in a nail-spa isn't it. Or hey, hold my beer and bleach it for me whilst I cough on my neighbour as a joke in the pub. Can you imagine how that would end with drunk people joking about sick? Bar-fights would be enormous.



When did being locked in your house for months become healthy? The data now suggests that the majority of new cases are from staying inside and that the probability to catch the virus outside, especially as temperatures get warmer, is almost nil. There is no proof, NONE, that being lockdown works.
Do you need proof that lockdown works? I didn't think you were that un-intelligent.

If you don't meet people because you stay at home, then you can't transfer virusses from them. Its that simple.

When did putting 20-30 million people out of work become healthy? And I really fear more for people when the shit hits the fan in 6-12 months economically and we start to see a huge spike in suicides, DV, sexual abuse, etc. that will affect 1000 times the amount of people this virus affects. It's already happening BTW.
No leader ever claimed it was healthy. They just think it was the lesser evil to letting this virus run wild.

We are now moving to a world where the minority rules the majority, to the point where even groups like LBGQT or whatever the acronym is dictates where people piss. Where abortions in America have reached close to a million BABIES a year, but it's swept under the rug.
And that has what todo with covid exactly?

Where 400k die from cancer and another 400K from heart disease (and that's in America alone), and millions die from hunger around the world, yet we're inundated by the MSM about corona where the worldwide death toll is around 250K (sorry but I think this number is skewed higher) and all of a sudden we're afraid to live.
The numbers might be skewed but consider this: What would the death tool be if this virus was allowed to spread like the flu? People keep comparing it to the flu, but this virus is much more infectatious and also more deadly than the flu.

Many medical scientists ran the numbers and in panic called the government. Only then did governments start reacting with locdkdowns.

But hey, we trust the non-professional facebookers and forum-idiots whilst ignoring those that actually studied for these things and recommend governments to do stuff.
I am glad for one, that my government didn't listen to facebookers or forummers, but actually did listen to the medical professionals.

A FB book friend who wasn't even alive then showed me a photo from the famed rock concert Woodstock that had a caption that read "in 1968 the H3N2 flu virus (Hong Kong flu) killed 1 million people worldwide and over 100K in the US and New York held a rock concert during its height where almost half a million people came to watch. No businesses were closed and no lockdown happened". The world's population at that time was 2 billion.
And that somehow makes this comparable to the current one?

Flu is not very dangerous, it is a mild disease with mild symptoms.
Yet the spanish flu at the end of world-war-1 was also influenza-induced (thus officially a flu) but far more deadly. Who is to say that this isn't the case with Covid19, that it is a more deadly strain of corona than the other corona.

Medical professionals sure seem to think so, so lets trust in them and not facebookers/forumers.

I could go on but you get the picture.
I certainly do, you are not thinking and allowing idiots to change your mind whilst a simple thought could debunk most of your arguments. Social distancing works, lockdown works, anyone who can't see the simplistic rule in that is not using their mind.


I, like Rosco, also think I might have had this virus. About a month ago I came down with something that was a little off from a normal cold or flu. I had a fever with some chills, but it was the intense headaches that accompanied the other symptoms that seemed a bit strange. It was all but gone after 3 days.
You might have had it, and had a medium symptomatic case. Some are not so lucky, they died.

And even those that recover from covid after being put on ventilators need medical care for the rest of their lives. Some even need oxygen tanks in their sleep to recover from the day after covid ravaged their lungs.

History has shown us that ALL of these respiratory viruses have eventually burned themselves after herd immunity. Science tells us that these types of viruses are 99% the same, so while they differ to some degree, they all act the same in the end; they burn themselves out.
And this has what exactly to do with the lockdown and other measures?
Most European countries are going for herd immunity and therefore did not do a complete lockdown with the exception of hard hit countries like Italy and Spain. And oh ye and behold, after a complete mandatory enforced lockdown, Italy and spains cases went away and people now are healthy.Lockdown again worked in this case. (Heck we know lockdown works ever since the black plague in the middle ages.... nice prime example).


Again, not saying this isn't serious, just some perspective here because I think collectively as a society many have lost their's. This is what propaganda does. Over 99% of people recover from the virus once they get it and 90% of the unfortunate whom have died are over 80 years old.
Propaganda indeed. Thankfully the government doesn't listen to that but uses well informed doctors, nurses and other medical professionals to base their reactions on.

Did you know for instance that 90% of people that have sarcoidosis don't even know they have it ? Do you know for instance, that if you do have sarcoidosis the new corona-virus is almost a 100% death sentance? I didn't know that, but when the covid thing started hitting Europe I went for a self-check of my health by a medical clinic. They confirmed I have sarcoidoses without symptoms. usually it goes away by itself and you never knew you were sick.


The CDC, and I think it was Dr Fauci himself who said back in January that this year was shaping up to be one of if not the worst year for the flu, even worse than 2018 where 80K died in the US from the flu. What happened to the flu?  NO reporting at all on it. I guess they were marked down as covid 19 deaths.
Or the flu was equally affected by the voulentary/mandatory lockdowns all over the world and was thus cancelled. Easy explanation that works for me. Use your own brain and not the village idiots brains.

Another proof that lockdown works.

There was a video sent to me by an acquaintance of some guy on CNN or some cable network discussing the stock market. The irony of the video was while this guy was showing how the stock market was rising pretty consistently during the corona crisis with a green arrow pointing its trajectory up (and a vast majority in America wrongly equate a healthy stock market to a healthy economy), the caption scrolling below showed that there are now 20 million people on unemployment. Nice transfer of wealth from that peanut stimulus package. Unbelievable.
And otherwise you were not out of work, but out of health fighting for your life in a hospital (if there are still beds available there. NYC for instance was drowning in sick without beds). That would also be problematic.


Something else is going on here. What started out as a potential deadly virus has morphed its way into a much bigger exercise of transferring wealth, abuse of power, and a test to see how easy it is to get the sheeple to believe anything its government says.
Put on your tinfoil hat please. it protects you from those chem-trails that are now succesfully installed in your brains, thats why they're missing in the sky you know.

And when did we start to trust governments?
When they put the public's health over my own petty interests. Most governments did good with Corona and my own trust surely increased now.

Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 17, 2020, 02:21:23 AM
[Some of my posts are not approved due to spacing and formatting issues]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 17, 2020, 02:28:28 AM
Oh and for some disbelievers like Danchik, Olga_mouse etc.

You do know that there is an (ex?) member here Eric (ECR844) that is in the health care system professionals?

I reached out to him and got first-hand knowledge. Better believe it, covid19 is one scary son of a bitch that you don't want in your body.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 17, 2020, 04:48:59 AM
I think after all of this virus stuff lots of people will be doing 2 things..

1. Saving some cash for a rainy day..

2. Going on a diet .. especially after realizing it's going to kill you one day stuffing all day long..

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-exposed-brutal-truth-become-152224074.html

And George Carlin can probably sum up the situation in the US down to a T..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 17, 2020, 05:57:52 AM

There are late night commercials telling people they are entitled to compensation if they took certain medications in the past. These medications have been through years of vigorous clinical trials and after 5 or 10 years, they say "Whoops! We messed up and those drugs are actually dangerous to the human body."

I'm all for doctors being allowed to give drugs in emergency situations but they disagree with what drug to give to a person as a last resort. Some will choose HCQ and others will choose something else. Why? Because there is no evidence whatever they're using is a safe and effective treatment for someone diagnosed with COVID-19. NOTHING. It's a matter of opinion. I can find a doctor and someone on Fox News that will say they know a safe and effective treatment but it doesn't make it true. There has never been a safe and effective treatment found for ANY coronavirus in history. To think they are going to magically find something sitting in their medicine cabinet is nuts. Every medicine we have has been designed for something else. There is no medicine designed to fight a coronavirus. They've tried before such as on SARS and MERS and they've failed.

Same with vaccines. No vaccines ever been found for a coronavirus. Governments are under great pressure to deliver results so there will be rush to deliver. Standard procedures for testing safety and effectiveness will be throw out the window. If a vaccine is invented, most likely it will not be effective for 100% of the people. They can't even get the test kits right and those are easier to create than a vaccine. Who knows? After we all get our shots, 5 years from now we may be entitled to some compensation because we're all F'd up. By the time we split the money from the government and court approved settlement, we'll each get $6.92 and have to live with Joe Biden disease for the rest of our lives.

Most vaccines are not the subject of the lawsuits that you portray. There is some I stress some evidence that on occasion vaccines are not effective and the end results are catospheric. The conspiracy followers & tin foil hat wearers seize upon this and it keeps them busy here and further on the Internet.

There was last week in a German paper an editorial from a bunch of doctors asking Berlin to think carefully about making a potential vaccine mandatory for the population. I asked my daughter (German major)to read and translate it as my German is not so great.

As I understand and see the reality there is allot of truth in what BillyB writes above.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 17, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
All this vaccine stuff the virus would of long gone by the time they have a vaccine.. by the end of the year it will be non existent and burnt it's self out like so many other's..

Shall we tale bets? Who wants to bet against me? $300 ?  Payment direct onto the winners card and all published here for all to see?

I say December 31st the virus would of completely gone..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 17, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
All this vaccine stuff the virus would of long gone by the time they have a vaccine.. by the end of the year it will be non existent and burnt it's self out like so many other's..

Shall we tale bets? Who wants to bet against me? $300 ?  Payment direct onto the winners card and all published here for all to see?

I say December 31st the virus would of completely gone..

I hope you are right, I suspect you are wrong.

I don't do bets.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 17, 2020, 12:38:22 PM
All this vaccine stuff the virus would of long gone by the time they have a vaccine.. by the end of the year it will be non existent and burnt it's self out like so many other's..

Shall we tale bets? Who wants to bet against me? $300 ?  Payment direct onto the winners card and all published here for all to see?

I say December 31st the virus would of completely gone..

I hope you are right, I suspect you are wrong.

I don't do bets.


Im never wrong..of course it will be gone they always do kind of disappear ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 17, 2020, 01:29:02 PM
Lets talk about what is happening about building a vaccine and a cure. First of all we are able to do things differently than we have ever been able to them in the past. Now the virus is DNA sequenced then a part of the sequence is taken and is injected into a person.  There is no drug used here just a piece of DNA material. The hope is the body will build an anti body to this material. So when the virus is present the antibody will coat the virus and not let it attached to any cells. Then it is put into a test subject and wait a couple of weeks.  Their blood is drawn to checked to see if the anti body was in fact made. Then the virus is put in the blood sample that was drawn and it is checked to see if the antibody costs the virus and renders it unable to attached. In phase one of the study which is now complete about fifty people of different ages and races are tested. This is done with all the people and they given different doses and different number of number of doses and the anti body tested on each person to see if the antibody produced will render the virus harmless. Part of what is done here is to test the vaccine to prove it is harmless by giving large doses and small doses and see what happens. Phase two of the trial in now beginning and has received approval based on data from phase one of the trial because the vaccine so far has been safe and two it shows it is likely to have some degree of effectiveness. Phase two of the trail will be much larger and include a large number of people in a number locations. Phase two of the trial should finish about on the first of the year. They expect to try to start production the vaccine in about November so they have millions of doses already produce as soon as it is approved. The problem is we need billions of doses.

What I feel it the most promising cure is they take the anti bodies from people that have had the disease and make it in the lab. The company that is doing this did a lot of animal testing. It seem this virus can be given to many mammals so it is not hard to find an animal to work with. I think they used mice first because it was the easiest. Give the mouse an injection with the Virus then give it the antibodies. See if the half of the mice do better with the anti bodies then those that do not get it do. Then they tried other animals and see if the results repeat. They got clearance to work with people. The first test were simple just to prove the antibodies did not hurt any one. After given them antibodies and waiting a few days then draw there blood and put the virus in it and see if the anti bodies are able to coat the virus to where it are harmless. This is not a drug or anything  like that but a new technology that lets us to used non drug therapy to render viruses harmless. I believe they are now into testing and feel they will be complete with the testing process by about September to October time frame. Once again this is not a drug and it does not change the body other than it floats in the blood stream looking for a coronavirus to coat.

These are just two out of hundreds of companies that was working on this. Anyway before getting so negative at least understand what is being tried. Maybe it would be good to have a scientific reason why you think it is going to fail not all of the crap, it has never been done. That stuff is on the news all the time without any reason why it should fail. If we never did anything that had never been done before we still would not have invented the wheel. 

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 17, 2020, 01:34:47 PM
Looks the research team in Oxford is ahead of anybody else..... But  a good vaccine take about 5 years to be tested and approved...... that is the announcement today from the UK Government.

Did you hear Obama's comments yesterday?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 17, 2020, 01:39:10 PM
All this vaccine stuff the virus would of long gone by the time they have a vaccine.. by the end of the year it will be non existent and burnt it's self out like so many other's..

Shall we tale bets? Who wants to bet against me? $300 ?  Payment direct onto the winners card and all published here for all to see?

I say December 31st the virus would of completely gone..

I hope you are right, I suspect you are wrong.

I don't do bets.


Im never wrong..of course it will be gone they always do kind of disappear ..

Please share the winning lottery numbers!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 17, 2020, 01:41:51 PM
All this vaccine stuff the virus would of long gone by the time they have a vaccine.. by the end of the year it will be non existent and burnt it's self out like so many other's..

Shall we tale bets? Who wants to bet against me? $300 ?  Payment direct onto the winners card and all published here for all to see?

I say December 31st the virus would of completely gone..

I hope you are right, I suspect you are wrong.

I don't do bets.


Im never wrong..of course it will be gone they always do kind of disappear ..

Please share the winning lottery numbers!

Im not able to do those sort of predictions yet!! But as soon as I can of course I will share with everyone.. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 01:57:28 PM
You do know that there is an (ex?) member here Eric (ECR844) that is in the health care system professionals?

I reached out to him and got first-hand knowledge. Better believe it, covid19 is one scary son of a bitch that you don't want in your body.


My wife's nursing teacher went to work at a hospital when classes were cancelled. Her teacher and the other medical professionals spend an hour getting tested and putting on PPE before starting work in an environment of COVID-19 patients. Medical professionals see first hand what this virus is doing to people and it ain't pretty.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 17, 2020, 02:01:27 PM
Sadly Wiz, the people in the UK might just have to keep dying for five years. I do not believe this virus is going away. It will likely be with us like the flu for now on and we will need new vaccine every year for it just like the flu shots.

I really do not care what Obama has to say. It is a very political fight over here trying to get Trump out of office. None of them had anything to say about anything  other than impeachment until after the virus hit. Trumps has his faults but the other side is much worse. They would seem good and more professional but would bury us in a lot more debt than we already have. They make our trade balance worse, get involved in more junk over seas, under fund our military, get more factories to leave the USA, raise taxes, and have more government expenses with a long list of give away programs.  Sadly they just might win.   

Why don't you write us a note and tell what science the Oxford is doing and where they are in coming up with a cure or a vaccine? I have read about a hand full companies but I not read their work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 17, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
UK is saying they plan to start giving the oxford Vaccine in September. What is all this about five years? They plan to do less testing that what is being required in the USA. Oxford testing just began last month and be done by September.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 17, 2020, 02:27:06 PM
Sadly Wiz, the people in the UK might just have to keep dying for five years. I do not believe this virus is going away. It will likely be with us like the flu for now on and we will need new vaccine every year for it just like the flu shots.

I really do not care what Obama has to say. It is a very political fight over here trying to get Trump out of office. None of them had anything to say about anything  other than impeachment until after the virus hit. Trumps has his faults but the other side is much worse. They would seem good and more professional but would bury us in a lot more debt than we already have. They make our trade balance worse, get involved in more junk over seas, under fund our military, get more factories to leave the USA, raise taxes, and have more government expenses with a long list of give away programs.  Sadly they just might win.   

Why don't you write us a note and tell what science the Oxford is doing and where they are in coming up with a cure or a vaccine? I have read about a hand full companies but I not read their work.

UK might just have to keep dying for five years. You have been watching way too many Hollywood movies..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 17, 2020, 02:44:13 PM
Sadly Wiz, the people in the UK might just have to keep dying for five years. I do not believe this virus is going away. It will likely be with us like the flu for now on and we will need new vaccine every year for it just like the flu shots.

I really do not care what Obama has to say. It is a very political fight over here trying to get Trump out of office. None of them had anything to say about anything  other than impeachment until after the virus hit. Trumps has his faults but the other side is much worse. They would seem good and more professional but would bury us in a lot more debt than we already have. They make our trade balance worse, get involved in more junk over seas, under fund our military, get more factories to leave the USA, raise taxes, and have more government expenses with a long list of give away programs.  Sadly they just might win.   

Why don't you write us a note and tell what science the Oxford is doing and where they are in coming up with a cure or a vaccine? I have read about a hand full companies but I not read their work.

UK might just have to keep dying for five years. You have been watching way too many Hollywood movies..

Wiz said that you blots would not approve a vaccine until it was tested for five years. But then I read, after I wrote this, the Oxford vaccine started testing after Moderna's vaccine had started testing and was heading for approval in September. So apparently someone decided to not let you blots die for five years after all. In fact, you guys seem to want to take more short cuts than even the USA. It will be good that we can test the vaccine on a few ten of millions brits to make sure it good before we used it in the USA.

There are other companies in trials also. I have not been able to read anything about how the Oxford vaccine is being made. I seldom watch movies or news on TV.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 17, 2020, 03:29:41 PM
UK is saying they plan to start giving the oxford Vaccine in September. What is all this about five years? They plan to do less testing that what is being required in the USA. Oxford testing just began last month and be done by September.

Dear Texan, I have stopped paying much attention....Just heard about Oxford while I was sunbathing in the garden....... do you know what I care for?

I care to see my Son's Families and my grand children and I don't give  a fig if I get corona Virus or not! That is what is more important and these government orders have destroyed our family units.

I speak to my Cousins in Greece and all of them take care of their Grand children, I have 7 and I have to wait when my son's will have a moment to open the messenger to talk to them!

Yesterday the Beaches opened in Greece and they were most of them Packed.........keeping the 2 metres distances.....temperature went to 37 C..... and were swimming in the sea!

Do you think they will be infected with such temperature?

Check Greece on the Lists........
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 17, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Interesting watching the news today and every day its:

Virus this, virus that, virus up, virus down, vaccine virus, virus vaccine 3 months away, virus here, virus gone, virus back, virus gone, virus Italy, virus china, trump virus, Boris virus, virus Boris, school virus, work virus, virus mask, virus gloves, big virus, little virus, small virus , short virus, blonde virus, virus dead, virus alive, virus lock down, virus quarantine ,Virus this, virus that, virus up, virus down, vaccine virus, virus vaccine 3 months away, virus here, virus gone, virus back, virus gone, virus Italy, virus china, trump virus, Boris virus, virus Boris, school virus, work virus, virus mask, virus gloves, big virus, little virus, small virus , short virus, blonde virus, virus dead, virus alive, virus lock down, virus quarantine ..

Do you remember just a few months ago??

Brexit yes, Brexit no, Boris brexit, Brexit news, Brexit up, Brexit down, Brexit finished, Brexit over, no Brexit, yes Brexit, vote Brexit , bad Brexit, good Brexit , not so good Brexit , left Brexit , right Brexit, Brexit dollar, Brexit pound, Brexit fish, Brexit among, Brexit France , brexit trump, Brexit germany, no Brexit, Brexit colors, Brexit lessons, Brexit cash, Brexit here, Brexit there, Brexit right, Brexit left, Brexit yes, Brexit no, Boris brexit, Brexit news, Brexit up, Brexit down, Brexit finished, Brexit over, no Brexit, yes Brexit, vote Brexit , bad Brexit, good Brexit , not so good Brexit , left Brexit , right Brexit, Brexit dollar, Brexit pound, Brexit fish, Brexit among, Brexit France , brexit trump, Brexit germany, no Brexit, Brexit colors, Brexit lessons, Brexit cash, Brexit here, Brexit there, Brexit right, Brexit left..

Any idea what will be next??
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 17, 2020, 03:57:39 PM
Sadly Wiz, the people in the UK might just have to keep dying for five years. I do not believe this virus is going away. It will likely be with us like the flu for now on and we will need new vaccine every year for it just like the flu shots.

I really do not care what Obama has to say. It is a very political fight over here trying to get Trump out of office. None of them had anything to say about anything  other than impeachment until after the virus hit. Trumps has his faults but the other side is much worse. They would seem good and more professional but would bury us in a lot more debt than we already have. They make our trade balance worse, get involved in more junk over seas, under fund our military, get more factories to leave the USA, raise taxes, and have more government expenses with a long list of give away programs.  Sadly they just might win.   

Why don't you write us a note and tell what science the Oxford is doing and where they are in coming up with a cure or a vaccine? I have read about a hand full companies but I not read their work.

UK might just have to keep dying for five years. You have been watching way too many Hollywood movies..

Wiz said that you blots would not approve a vaccine until it was tested for five years. But then I read, after I wrote this, the Oxford vaccine started testing after Moderna's vaccine had started testing and was heading for approval in September. So apparently someone decided to not let you blots die for five years after all. In fact, you guys seem to want to take more short cuts than even the USA. It will be good that we can test the vaccine on a few ten of millions brits to make sure it good before we used it in the USA.

There are other companies in trials also. I have not been able to read anything about how the Oxford vaccine is being made. I seldom watch movies or news on TV.

While I have little desire to learn more about viruses. (One in a lifetime is enough for me.) I listened to a report regarding a company with French roots and an English concern both are supposedly getting closer to a vaccine. As an aside the French companies director said the vaccine would be first available in The United States, where it is being developed!

This set off a fire storm of criticism with the French public. Upon clarification he said it would not be possible to develop the vaccine in France and sell it there because of EU regulation. The English 'president' or CEO said because he can work freely with Universities in the UK he has both an incentive and freedom to pursue what he thinks may work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 17, 2020, 04:00:29 PM
Interesting watching the news today and every day its:

Virus this, virus that, virus up, virus down, vaccine virus, virus vaccine 3 months away, virus here, virus gone, virus back, virus gone, virus Italy, virus china, trump virus, Boris virus, virus Boris, school virus, work virus, virus mask, virus gloves, big virus, little virus, small virus , short virus, blonde virus, virus dead, virus alive, virus lock down, virus quarantine ,Virus this, virus that, virus up, virus down, vaccine virus, virus vaccine 3 months away, virus here, virus gone, virus back, virus gone, virus Italy, virus china, trump virus, Boris virus, virus Boris, school virus, work virus, virus mask, virus gloves, big virus, little virus, small virus , short virus, blonde virus, virus dead, virus alive, virus lock down, virus quarantine ..

Do you remember just a few months ago??

Brexit yes, Brexit no, Boris brexit, Brexit news, Brexit up, Brexit down, Brexit finished, Brexit over, no Brexit, yes Brexit, vote Brexit , bad Brexit, good Brexit , not so good Brexit , left Brexit , right Brexit, Brexit dollar, Brexit pound, Brexit fish, Brexit among, Brexit France , brexit trump, Brexit germany, no Brexit, Brexit colors, Brexit lessons, Brexit cash, Brexit here, Brexit there, Brexit right, Brexit left, Brexit yes, Brexit no, Boris brexit, Brexit news, Brexit up, Brexit down, Brexit finished, Brexit over, no Brexit, yes Brexit, vote Brexit , bad Brexit, good Brexit , not so good Brexit , left Brexit , right Brexit, Brexit dollar, Brexit pound, Brexit fish, Brexit among, Brexit France , brexit trump, Brexit germany, no Brexit, Brexit colors, Brexit lessons, Brexit cash, Brexit here, Brexit there, Brexit right, Brexit left..

Any idea what will be next??
Women
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 17, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
My girl in the Ukraine just wrote me and she said the border with Poland is open only to let Ukrainian citizens and supplies needed in the Ukraine. All people crossing the border and staying have to be Ukrainian and do two weeks of quarantine. She does not think they are going to be many tourist in the Ukraine this summer. That is in line with what I read that they are not planning to not let tour busses in or out of the Ukraine all this summer. If I remember right this is also what Russia is planning.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2020, 07:52:18 PM
UK is saying they plan to start giving the oxford Vaccine in September.


I wouldn't want to be first in line for that vaccine. No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus. What are the chances they are going to get it right with a rushed vaccine? Ours will be rushed too.

Trump launches "Operation Warp Speed". It's about vaccines and Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar says we had 100 of possible candidates and we are down to 14 now. Eventually we'll get down to 4 or 5 and governments will invest heavily in them. The goal is to have 300 million vaccines ready by January. He also said we'll manufacture vaccines before the studies are finish and may have to discard hundreds of millions of vaccines if determined the studies conclude they are not safe and effective. Video of the interview below.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/health-secretary-aiming-for-300-million-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-by-2021/ar-BB14ddWh?ocid=spartanntp

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 17, 2020, 10:37:06 PM
No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus.

It has in animals, cows for example.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on May 18, 2020, 12:58:34 AM
No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus.

It has in animals, cows for example.

Manny

First was (in UK) ...  Beecham Pharma    very cheap.... Father IL (City Name)  advised me Buy some  .. I Did 1000 and forgot ..... Father IL gave my Ex.....lots more than I bought.....

Top Share Price £6 before merging a US Co  ....  Then US joined  and became SmithKline Beecham  Share Price £12-14  ....  Remembered I had some shares..... sold them (Silly billy) and made few pennies but I had to .... increase the size of my Co.!

Later Merged with Glaxo Pharma and became GlaxoSmithKline plc

And today is GlaxoSmithKline plc  1,647.80 GB .......

Wish I still have them!  My younger son ..... smiling all the way ......  for his Mother/Grand Father 

No Channel Islands.........anymore. :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 18, 2020, 01:10:08 AM
No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus.

It has in animals, cows for example.

I should change it to "No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus that can infect humans"
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 18, 2020, 02:56:42 AM
It will all be water under the bridge in a few more months just like all the other virus that appeared..

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-02-18/sars-coronavirus-china-epidemic

I don't even bother reading the news about it anymore it's got so boring..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 18, 2020, 03:12:30 AM
Billy, yeah, change it exactly as you wrote it above. People will forgive you, while they smile, we understand that English is not your first language. ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 18, 2020, 03:16:22 AM
No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus.

It has in animals, cows for example.

I should change it to "No vaccine has ever been created for a coronavirus that can infect humans"

My point was if it can be done for cows, it can't be a huge stretch to do it for people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 18, 2020, 04:16:53 AM
UK is saying they plan to start giving the oxford Vaccine in September. What is all this about five years? They plan to do less testing that what is being required in the USA. Oxford testing just began last month and be done by September.

Dear Texan, I have stopped paying much attention....Just heard about Oxford while I was sunbathing in the garden....... do you know what I care for?

I care to see my Son's Families and my grand children and I don't give  a fig if I get corona Virus or not! That is what is more important and these government orders have destroyed our family units.

I speak to my Cousins in Greece and all of them take care of their Grand children, I have 7 and I have to wait when my son's will have a moment to open the messenger to talk to them!

Yesterday the Beaches opened in Greece and they were most of them Packed.........keeping the 2 metres distances.....temperature went to 37 C..... and were swimming in the sea!

Do you think they will be infected with such temperature?

Check Greece on the Lists........

Typical Wiz, bollox

You'd care if you or the Missus' got it and needed hospitalisation..

SC was in Thailand in late Jan til late March and guess what .... people caught it there and they ultimately locked locked down an closed the beaches .. the Thais don't WANT the bars reopened ..

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1164683-covid-19-keep-the-dangerous-pubs-and-bars-shut-say-the-majority-of-thais-in-poll/? (https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1164683-covid-19-keep-the-dangerous-pubs-and-bars-shut-say-the-majority-of-thais-in-poll/?)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 18, 2020, 04:34:53 AM
Manny, that's not wrong. Of course there are different constriants on animals and safety.

For example nobody will care if a vaccine makes cows go autistic, or get cancer in old age. But those would be concerns in a human vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 18, 2020, 09:47:35 AM
It will all be water under the bridge in a few more months just like all the other virus that appeared..

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-02-18/sars-coronavirus-china-epidemic

I don't even bother reading the news about it anymore it's got so boring..

SARS came out of China and China and the world took action to make it disappear. SARS didn't disappear on its own. Unfortunately the same level of action on SARS COV-2 is not enough to stop it since its a more dangerous beast.


Manny, that's not wrong. Of course there are different constriants on animals and safety.

For example nobody will care if a vaccine makes cows go autistic, or get cancer in old age. But those would be concerns in a human vaccine.


Andrew is right once in awhile. The cow vaccine isn't safe for humans. The cow coronavirus is also different from ours since it comes from rats, not bats. Creating a safe and effective vaccine is near impossible. We don't want to find out 10 years later billions of people have developed cancer or causing neurological disorders. We don't want the cure ending up being worse than the virus. If we can find a safe vaccine that's only 20% effective, then that will be an acceptable start. When a vaccine comes out, I won't be first in line. I'll observe what it does to others. There may be a few vaccines coming out. I wait to see which one is best. There will be mistakes made by rushing a vaccine to the market.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 18, 2020, 10:12:45 AM
Billy, I am wrong sometimes. It helps to arm oneself with knowledge and understanding.

It must be harder for you what with English not being your first language but it's still possible. A goal worth setting for yourself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 18, 2020, 10:33:49 AM

I'll try harder. Look what I wrong in my signature line. It's helps me remember the importance of reading so I can be smart like you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 18, 2020, 11:31:34 AM
500,000 people in the Uk thinking of committing suicide  ??? ???

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/coronavirus-covid19-suicide-mental-health-090906329.html

Are these people mentally unstable even looking at such ridicules garbage online.. Christ almighty where has the spirt of survival gone in todays ridicule society ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 18, 2020, 03:53:19 PM
500,000 people in the Uk thinking of committing suicide  ??? ???

I don’t buy any of that. What’s challenging about staying at home for a few weeks? Clean, tidy, fix stuff, do the garden, do stuff you’ve been putting off, read a couple of books, watch some TV, have a lie in every day. I’d call it a holiday.

The government are throwing free money at people to do just that.

I haven’t had that luxury as we’ve been working throughout and been even busier than normal.

I’m looking forward to all this being over so I can have a week or two holiday somewhere. I feel another digital detox in Korea might be needed. A week or so with the phone blinking ‘no service’ sounds pretty good. Especially as Boris has paid for it already.  :-*
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 18, 2020, 04:20:54 PM
Billy, you are aware of the concept of quantity?
I know that in some counting systems the quantities work on the basis of 1,2,3, many - including some in South East Asia, I had been sure that you were not one of those people.

Perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps we are what we were born and we carry that heritage with us for good or ill.
https://numberwarrior.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/is-one-two-many-a-myth/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on May 18, 2020, 07:57:56 PM
Why do I believe in limited government intervention? Because the government is irresponsible, plain and simple. Case in point: despite having never applied for unemployment assistance (nor needing it), today in the mail I received a supplemental income check for $1200! How many other folks who don't actually need the help are receiving these Corona virus checks (and keeping them) while those who really need the money aren't getting any help at all? I suspect that the number is higher than we care to realize.

I'll be cashing this check and I'll give the 1200 smackers to someone who can actually use them (but probably hasn't gotten a lick of assistance from 'the system'). 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 19, 2020, 05:15:48 AM
For those of 'us' still suggesting Sweden was a shining example of how to handle the pandemic ..



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836)

"They told us that we shouldn't send anyone to the hospital, even if they may be 65 and have many years to live. We were told not to send them in," says Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse who worked in several care homes around Gävle, north of Stockholm, at the beginning of the pandemic.

"Some can have a lot of years left to live with loved ones, but they don't have the chance... because they never make it to the hospital," she says. "They suffocate to death. And it's a lot of panic and it's very hard to just stand by and watch."

Ms Löfvenberg is now working on a Covid-19 ward in a major hospital in the Swedish capital, where she says the demographic of patients she's treating is further evidence that the elderly are being kept away. "We don't have many older people. It's a lot of younger people born in the 90s, 80s, 70s."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 19, 2020, 07:50:45 AM
Nice weather outside today and I'm sure a smell of "Dead virus" about .. a little like the movie War of the worlds when the aliens just kind of died and left all that red slimy stuff...

I think it is already dying slowly so the best keep your shoes clean that is where you will find it very soon on the sole of your shoes..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 19, 2020, 08:44:27 AM
How many have really died from SARS-Cov2 / COVID-19 in the UK, so far ?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2020/5/19/80803979-fc53-48b0-8851-698b9b2cc338.png)

UK sees almost 55,000 extra deaths
Figures released by the UK's national statistical agencies show that there were 54,437 more deaths up to 8 May than would normally have been expected by this time of year.

The figure is larger than the 34,796 people who died after a positive test result for coronavirus up to that date, or the 41,020 people whose death certificate mentioned Covid-19.

Robert Cuffe, the BBC's head of statistics, said the larger "excess deaths" figure was likely to capture the true impact of the virus, reflecting the numbers of people who died without a test or who died because of the strain on the healthcare system.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 19, 2020, 01:48:23 PM
Why do I believe in limited government intervention? Because the government is irresponsible, plain and simple. Case in point: despite having never applied for unemployment assistance (nor needing it), today in the mail I received a supplemental income check for $1200! How many other folks who don't actually need the help are receiving these Corona virus checks (and keeping them) while those who really need the money aren't getting any help at all? I suspect that the number is higher than we care to realize.

I'll be cashing this check and I'll give the 1200 smackers to someone who can actually use them (but probably hasn't gotten a lick of assistance from 'the system').

You mean the "stimulus payment", not supplemental income check.  It is from the CARES Act signed into law in late March 2020.  You will get a letter from the President two weeks later informing you of the payment and why it was made.  There are a lot of people who have not received this stimulus payment due to issues with their tax records.  And there are delays with income tax refunds being issued since the shutdown of the IRS processing centers in early April.  These quick unforeseen payments are going to proceed in a haphazard manner.  Now they plan to issue debit cards to those without bank accounts.  Unfortunately, they cannot determine who really "deserves" to receive the money and who should not.   :money: :biggrin: :duh: :-\
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 19, 2020, 02:49:12 PM
Quote
“Never in my eight years of work in charity have I seen so many hungry and desperate people as during these months of coronavirus pandemic,”

Quote
“There will be more dying," he said. “We are in the middle of the process.”

Last Monday Russia saw a huge spike in infections—it is now second only to the United States in total numbers. And Russian authorities seem to have stumbled in protecting medical workers. Nobody, not even the most skillful propagandists, would be able to hide that fact. Due to sloppiness and disorganization, 190 Russian doctors and medics have died from COVID-19, according to a list called “We Remember” compiled by fellow physicians.
Russian medical workers, repeatedly called  “heroes of our times” by state television, are calling for Putin to pay them the promised bonuses. So far 106,762 people have signed their petition.
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-president-vladimir-putin-is-in-some-deep-trouble

Show me the money.   :chuckle: :rouble-smile: (:)



For those who keep trying to compare the seasonal flu with the novel coronavirus.

Quote
Infections

COVID-19: The first cases appeared in China in late 2019 and the first confirmed case in the United States appeared in January 2020.

Approximately 4,823,479 cases have been confirmed worldwide. There have been 1,508,957 cases in the U.S. as of May 19, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 1 billion people worldwide get the flu every year.

In the U.S., for Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that there were 39 million to 56 million cases of flu. (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)

Deaths

COVID-19: There have been approximately 318,857 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 90,369 people have died of COVID-19, as of May 19, 2020.*

Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu. (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)

The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher than that of most strains of the flu.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Quote
The death rate from seasonal flu is typically around 0.1% in the U.S., according to news reports.

Though the death rate for COVID-19 is unclear, almost all credible research suggests it is much higher than that of the seasonal flu.

It's important to note that there is no one death rate for COVID-19; the rate can vary by location, age of person infected and the presence of underlying health conditions, Live Science previously reported.

Among reported COVID-19 cases in the U.S., nearly 6% have died.

Researchers from Columbia University recently estimated that only 1 in 12 cases of COVID-19 in the U.S. are documented, which they said would translate to an infection fatality rate of about 0.6%.  But even this lower estimate is still at least six times higher than that of the flu.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

So you either got it (or will get it) or you don't.  Better YOU than me.    :chuckle: (:) :biggrin: :hidechair:  :thumbsup: tiphat :HOSPITAL: ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 19, 2020, 02:58:13 PM
Why do I believe in limited government intervention? Because the government is irresponsible, plain and simple. Case in point: despite having never applied for unemployment assistance (nor needing it), today in the mail I received a supplemental income check for $1200! How many other folks who don't actually need the help are receiving these Corona virus checks (and keeping them) while those who really need the money aren't getting any help at all? I suspect that the number is higher than we care to realize.

I'll be cashing this check and I'll give the 1200 smackers to someone who can actually use them (but probably hasn't gotten a lick of assistance from 'the system').


You mean the "stimulus payment", not supplemental income check.  It is from the CARES Act signed into law in late March 2020.  You will get a letter from the President two weeks later informing you of the payment and why it was made.  There are a lot of people who have not received this stimulus payment due to issues with their tax records.  And there are delays with income tax refunds being issued since the shutdown of the IRS processing centers in early April.  These quick unforeseen payments are going to proceed in a haphazard manner.  Now they plan to issue debit cards to those without bank accounts.  Unfortunately, they cannot determine who really "deserves" to receive the money and who should not.   :money: :biggrin: :duh: :-\

Note that the "government" is using your AGI from either the 2018 or 2019 tax year to calculate your stimulus payment.  For those that did not file tax returns, they will examine other social program records like Social Security, Medicaid, SSI, etc.  But, again, they may not get all necessary information to determine who should get the money.  Deceased people in 2019 or 2020 could receive a check.  But, it is supposed to be sent back if the recipient is dead.  Note, no return postage is necessary.   (:) :duh: :nod: :money:   :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 19, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
Nice weather outside today and I'm sure a smell of "Dead virus" about .. a little like the movie War of the worlds when the aliens just kind of died and left all that red slimy stuff...

I think it is already dying slowly so the best keep your shoes clean that is where you will find it very soon on the sole of your shoes..

Quote
The CDC now says that COVID-19 spreads from person to person contact, and then lists touching infected surfaces under a section titled, "The virus does not spread easily in other ways." The CDC adds: “This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.”

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-coronavirus-mainly-spreads-through-persontoperson-contact-and-does-not-spread-easily-on-contaminated-surfaces-153317029.html

Now, the main mode of transmission is by human to human contact, not by way of surface contact.   :-\

Quote
From Monday, flight attendants will wear the full body suits over their uniforms, in addition to safety goggles, gloves, and a mask

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/qatar-airways-has-introduced-full-body-protective-gear-for-its-flight-attendants/ar-BB14inNL

This is the "new normal".  Everyone needs to be wearing a hazmat suit 24/7.   :chuckle:  All human reproduction will be done by artificial insemination.    :ROFL: (:) :whist11: :loving:

To all you disease vectors, keep the  :censored: away from me.    :GRRRR: >:( :dh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 19, 2020, 05:20:37 PM

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-president-vladimir-putin-is-in-some-deep-trouble

For those who keep trying to compare the seasonal flu with the novel coronavirus.


This is a very good read. Thank you for posting it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on May 20, 2020, 12:57:20 AM
Why do I believe in limited government intervention? Because the government is irresponsible, plain and simple. Case in point: despite having never applied for unemployment assistance (nor needing it), today in the mail I received a supplemental income check for $1200! How many other folks who don't actually need the help are receiving these Corona virus checks (and keeping them) while those who really need the money aren't getting any help at all? I suspect that the number is higher than we care to realize.

I'll be cashing this check and I'll give the 1200 smackers to someone who can actually use them (but probably hasn't gotten a lick of assistance from 'the system').


You mean the "stimulus payment", not supplemental income check.  It is from the CARES Act signed into law in late March 2020.  You will get a letter from the President two weeks later informing you of the payment and why it was made.  There are a lot of people who have not received this stimulus payment due to issues with their tax records.  And there are delays with income tax refunds being issued since the shutdown of the IRS processing centers in early April.  These quick unforeseen payments are going to proceed in a haphazard manner.  Now they plan to issue debit cards to those without bank accounts.  Unfortunately, they cannot determine who really "deserves" to receive the money and who should not.   :money: :biggrin: :duh: :-\

Note that the "government" is using your AGI from either the 2018 or 2019 tax year to calculate your stimulus payment.  For those that did not file tax returns, they will examine other social program records like Social Security, Medicaid, SSI, etc.  But, again, they may not get all necessary information to determine who should get the money.  Deceased people in 2019 or 2020 could receive a check.  But, it is supposed to be sent back if the recipient is dead.  Note, no return postage is necessary.   (:) :duh: :nod: :money:   :GRAVE:

Thanks for filling me in a bit on how this program is supposed to work dcguy. I'm not sure that makes full sense in my situation (because I don't file tax returns [because I don't really generate any income]). But in any case, it's interesting to see how they're trying to determine who gets what.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 20, 2020, 01:12:06 AM
That $1200 is not for the benefit of the recipient of the cheque. Its purpose is to stimulate the economy and set off a virtuous cycle of spending.

Look at the amount of money. Its not enough to support a needy person for very long.
While most people can think of ways to spend the money it is neither supportive or life changing.

That money, in aggregate, serves to replace a large amount of money that was expected to not be spent by consumers.

So, its not about whether you need the money or not. This is about the wider economy and the effect of replacing lost spending and thus protecting businesses in the Home of the Brave.

Think of it as an alternative to government spending on infrastructure projects as would have been done in the good old days.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on May 20, 2020, 08:25:07 AM
That $1200 is not for the benefit of the recipient of the cheque. Its purpose is to stimulate the economy and set off a virtuous cycle of spending.

Look at the amount of money. Its not enough to support a needy person for very long.
While most people can think of ways to spend the money it is neither supportive or life changing.

That money, in aggregate, serves to replace a large amount of money that was expected to not be spent by consumers.

So, its not about whether you need the money or not. This is about the wider economy and the effect of replacing lost spending and thus protecting businesses in the Home of the Brave.

Think of it as an alternative to government spending on infrastructure projects as would have been done in the good old days.

I suppose that makes sense Andrew, although personally I can't see it helping too much. The bulk of that money is going to be spent with companies like Amazon and Wal-mart, not with the small businesses that really need the patronage (like barbershops / hair salons, restaurants and bars) which are still not permitted to be open in many cases.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 20, 2020, 08:38:05 AM
That $1200 is not for the benefit of the recipient of the cheque. Its purpose is to stimulate the economy and set off a virtuous cycle of spending.

Look at the amount of money. Its not enough to support a needy person for very long.
While most people can think of ways to spend the money it is neither supportive or life changing.

That money, in aggregate, serves to replace a large amount of money that was expected to not be spent by consumers.

So, its not about whether you need the money or not. This is about the wider economy and the effect of replacing lost spending and thus protecting businesses in the Home of the Brave.

Think of it as an alternative to government spending on infrastructure projects as would have been done in the good old days.

I suppose that makes sense Andrew, although personally I can't see it helping too much. The bulk of that money is going to be spent with companies like Amazon and Wal-mart, not with the small businesses that really need the patronage (like barbershops / hair salons, restaurants and bars) which are still not permitted to be open in many cases.

You are correct Lord of the Dance!!

Does this mean you’re going to join myself and others and shop more often at small local businesses instead of Amazon?

And the other $6,300 of stimulus money went to large irresponsible Corporations, yet another transfer of wealth, which Danchik and I discussed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on May 20, 2020, 08:45:49 AM
That $1200 is not for the benefit of the recipient of the cheque. Its purpose is to stimulate the economy and set off a virtuous cycle of spending.

Look at the amount of money. Its not enough to support a needy person for very long.
While most people can think of ways to spend the money it is neither supportive or life changing.

That money, in aggregate, serves to replace a large amount of money that was expected to not be spent by consumers.

So, its not about whether you need the money or not. This is about the wider economy and the effect of replacing lost spending and thus protecting businesses in the Home of the Brave.

Think of it as an alternative to government spending on infrastructure projects as would have been done in the good old days.

I suppose that makes sense Andrew, although personally I can't see it helping too much. The bulk of that money is going to be spent with companies like Amazon and Wal-mart, not with the small businesses that really need the patronage (like barbershops / hair salons, restaurants and bars) which are still not permitted to be open in many cases.

You are correct Lord of the Dance!!

Does this mean you’re going to join myself and others and shop more often at small local businesses instead of Amazon?

And the other $6,300 of stimulus money went to large irresponsible Corporations, yet another transfer of wealth, which Danchik and I discussed.

Indeed!

We need to get these smaller guys back up and running. The local and state governments here in PA are making it difficult for businesses to re-open. Many are doing so anyway because they have no other option (i.e. they're on the verge of bankruptcy).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 20, 2020, 09:09:22 AM
That $1200 is not for the benefit of the recipient of the cheque. Its purpose is to stimulate the economy and set off a virtuous cycle of spending.

Look at the amount of money. Its not enough to support a needy person for very long.
While most people can think of ways to spend the money it is neither supportive or life changing.

That money, in aggregate, serves to replace a large amount of money that was expected to not be spent by consumers.

So, its not about whether you need the money or not. This is about the wider economy and the effect of replacing lost spending and thus protecting businesses in the Home of the Brave.

Think of it as an alternative to government spending on infrastructure projects as would have been done in the good old days.

I suppose that makes sense Andrew, although personally I can't see it helping too much. The bulk of that money is going to be spent with companies like Amazon and Wal-mart, not with the small businesses that really need the patronage (like barbershops / hair salons, restaurants and bars) which are still not permitted to be open in many cases.

You are correct Lord of the Dance!!

Does this mean you’re going to join myself and others and shop more often at small local businesses instead of Amazon?

And the other $6,300 of stimulus money went to large irresponsible Corporations, yet another transfer of wealth, which Danchik and I discussed.

Indeed!

We need to get these smaller guys back up and running. The local and state governments here in PA are making it difficult for businesses to re-open. Many are doing so anyway because they have no other option (i.e. they're on the verge of bankruptcy).

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Fight the power! Fight the tyranny! Live free or die!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 20, 2020, 09:21:09 AM


Fight the power! Fight the tyranny! Live free or die!

What IS it with the bleedin' obvious staying at home saving lives ( as long as govt. ensures folks don't go starving ) that became 'tyrannical govt'

Seems to me there is a few folks who were born into the word 200 years too late.

Go and live in the wilds and eek out an existence by all means ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 20, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Llama antibodies engineered to fight Coronavirus.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/05/19/llama-antibody-engineered-to-block-coronavirus/

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/llama-antibody-engineered-block-coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 20, 2020, 09:42:33 AM
Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous this 'news' sounds to anyone with a clue re the development of vaccines ?

Llamas were discovered to have produced antibodies to SARS and MERS FOUR years ago ...

Did you spot a vaccine for them ?  :popcorn:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on May 20, 2020, 10:47:08 AM
What the Global geopolitical landscape looks like post covid 19, 20, 21...

USA/USMCA and dollar UP for next 50 years as EU and CCP China dis-integrate due to corrupt incompetent and evil response to Covid 19 ... Since the Beijing answer to the world and Brussels answer to Southern Europe was literally phock off and die the Covid backlash in supply chains repatriation and Super Anglosphere anchored trading block as UK dumps sinking EU Globalists Titanic and is thrown a lifeline to rejoin British North America (Canada-USMCA) along with 5 Eyes members Oz and NZ... Who the US will forgive as the Anglosphere ends its 40 year tryst with it's mistress whore Communist Red China saying the sex was great but the Covid STDs are deadly.

Blowback is a beatch.

Venezuela turns into new Biafra as Oil demand collapses, Persian Gulf Chaos and Nigeria/Africa chaos continues...

Central South America thrive based upon how well they integrate trading relationships with USMCAnglosphere trading blocks as Latams growing youth demo shifts more manufacturing with growing young labor pools as China 30 year 1 child policy decimates CCP demographics.

Nordic and Southern Europe also re-trade with the Mega USMCAnglosphere global trading block after being told to foff and die by the Brussels 4th Reich.

Russia Saudi oil conflict escalates with Saudi kingdom flooding Russian islamostans with ISIS diversity enrichment... Putin pulls a page from his Cechnyan annihilation playbook and crushes the Islamostans and Mecca and Medina while the Anglosphere clutches their pearls...

After CCP Covid backlash plays out Irony is future for China follows Hong Kong and Taiwan free markets playbooks.

UN WHO WTO etc clueless why their funding seems to evaporate...

Brilliant Peter Zeihan interview:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 21, 2020, 04:01:12 PM
Quote
"When they gave the diagnosis, I felt like it was a death sentence. I was like, 'I'm going to die,'" she told WISN. "I'm like, 'How can I be sick? How? I'm on the hydroxychloroquine.' They were like, 'Well, nobody ever said that was the cure or that was going to keep you safe' and it definitely did not."
"You're not safe taking that medication at all," she added. Hydroxychloroquine "is not going to prevent anything. You can still get coronavirus."


https://www.insider.com/woman-took-hydroxychloroquine-19-years-still-got-covid-19-2020-5

I suppose he is taking it to address the cytokine storm going on inside the body.   :chuckle: (:) :duh: :biggrin:

Quote
And if the country had begun locking down cities and limiting social contact on March 1, two weeks earlier than most people started staying home, the vast majority of the nation’s deaths — about 83% — would have been avoided, the researchers estimated.

Under that scenario, about 54,000 fewer people would have died by early May.

All models are only estimates, and it is impossible to know for certain the exact number of people who would have died. But Lauren Ancel Meyers, a University of Texas at Austin epidemiologist who was not involved in the research, said that it “makes a compelling case that even slightly earlier action in New York could have been game changing.”

“This implies that if interventions had occurred two weeks earlier, many COVID-19 deaths and cases would have been prevented by early May, not just in New York City but throughout the U.S.,” Meyers said.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/lockdown-delays-cost-least-36-121427362.html

The pandemic deniers theme song is "que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be".   :whist11:   (:)
Doris Day isn't here to save you.   :chuckle: :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on May 21, 2020, 08:07:55 PM
More bad news in China...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-18/over-100-million-in-china-s-northeast-thrown-back-under-lockdown

Over 100 Million in China’s Northeast Face Renewed Lockdown
Bloomberg News
May 18, 2020, 2:58 AM EDT
Updated on May 18, 2020, 5:42 AM EDT
Conditions return to height of China’s epidemic in February
Frustration as restrictions tighten again after earlier easing

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 21, 2020, 10:01:42 PM
PM Boris Johnson doesn't want citizens to buy Chinese. Will you guys over there do your part to comply?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-pm-johnson-orders-for-plans-to-end-reliance-on-chinese-imports-the-times/ar-BB14qVRT?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 22, 2020, 12:12:20 AM
FAKE NEWS alert .. Billy's lying

PM Boris Johnson doesn't want citizens to buy Chinese. Will you guys over there do your part to comply?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-pm-johnson-orders-for-plans-to-end-reliance-on-chinese-imports-the-times/ar-BB14qVRT?ocid=spartanntp

BoJo wants to avoid 'over-reliance' on Chinese meds and other strategic imports... Why misrepresent folks words, BillyB ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 22, 2020, 12:21:29 AM
PM Boris Johnson doesn't want citizens to buy Chinese. Will you guys over there do your part to comply?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-pm-johnson-orders-for-plans-to-end-reliance-on-chinese-imports-the-times/ar-BB14qVRT?ocid=spartanntp

That isn’t what he said, you made that up. What he said was he wanted the pharmaceutical and some other industries to diversify supply lines to no longer depend on individual countries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 01:11:51 AM
Well, that's two guys upset about the thought of having to stop buying Chinese. Of course Boris can't tell the citizens what to do. He can set an example that you guys aren't liking. He's going to roll back the amount of your tax dollars going to China. Are you going to participate in "project defend" or continue to help hostile nations?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 22, 2020, 01:42:45 AM
Well, that's two guys upset about the thought of having to stop buying Chinese.

I don't give a **** either way.. Typical, BillyB when busted .. deflect and obfuscate

Of course Boris can't tell the citizens what to do.

He can and does.. #stayingathome, was a clear message .... most listened
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 22, 2020, 01:45:21 AM
Well, that's two guys upset about the thought of having to stop buying Chinese.

More fake news. Show me where I will "have to stop" buying Chinese?

But wait..........

Of course Boris can't tell the citizens what to do.

Gosh, you are tying yourself up in knots, aren't you?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 22, 2020, 03:12:14 AM
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-self-isolate-14-days-face-1-000-004100448.html

Got to self isolate! No point bolting the door after the horse has gone as they say! I spent my time keeping away from the virus and being responsible whilst the UK government have been letting every tom dick and harry in for months! Hypocrisy of it.

If it is still the case next time Im back in the UK .. I shall be donwn the pub in Lyme Regis having crab salad and a few pints of cider.. I will keep the cash in my pocket incase an officer should come along.. and tell him to "Do one" :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 08:30:22 AM

Two guys still worked up over somebody telling them their PM is leading by example to have the UK stop buying Chinese in "Project Defend". I think it's a good idea to hold certain nations accountable. Nothing to be afraid of. Accountability is a good thing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 22, 2020, 10:14:17 AM
Two guys still worked up over somebody telling them their PM is leading by example to have the UK stop buying Chinese in "Project Defend".

He told people to stay at home as well: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-weather-hottest-day-beaches-coronavirus-lockdown-social-distancing-a9525126.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 22, 2020, 10:16:51 AM
Nasty U.N.-American protesters!

https://babylonbee.com/news/mi-governor-revolting-against-a-tyrannical-government-is-simply-unamerican
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 22, 2020, 10:23:37 AM

More fake news. Show me where I will "have to stop" buying Chinese?
 


Many Chinese companies are starting to move to Africa. The labor is lower and human right do not exist. It maybe about ten years you have to start to buy African. :chuckle:
 
The south African white famers are likely out of luck. In spite of the problems many African are better off having the jobs and new inter structure that lets factories operate. It was a job the Europeans were not willing to do.  So hopefully in years to come Europe will experience less immigration from Africa.  They may also find products once made in Europe will be made in Africa.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 22, 2020, 10:49:54 AM
Moby’s mate?

Tens of thousands of coronavirus tests have been double-counted, officials admit

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/tens-thousands-coronavirus-tests-have-double-counted-officials/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 22, 2020, 11:20:46 AM
For those who thought Sweden for a 'shining light' to follow ....

Which nation has the highest death rate per capita for the last 7 days?..

Yup....

SWEDEN.

Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita for last 7 days

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/)




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2020, 11:25:41 AM
Two guys still worked up over somebody telling them their PM is leading by example to have the UK stop buying Chinese in "Project Defend".

He told people to stay at home as well: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-weather-hottest-day-beaches-coronavirus-lockdown-social-distancing-a9525126.html

It's up to every UK citizen to decide if they want to stay at home and stop supporting nations that's hostile to the UK. Can't change China's behavior if people aren't showing they reject it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 22, 2020, 11:26:05 AM
Mind you..the UK cannot 'crow'..

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/22/lockdown-week-earlier-have-stopped-three-quarters-deaths-uk-12743426/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/22/lockdown-week-earlier-have-stopped-three-quarters-deaths-uk-12743426/)


Today, we were told by the WORST Home Secretary, ever, that 'we' will have 14 quarantines on new UK arrivals, as the numbers are 'going down, yet only a frlew sentences before she confirmed new cases were up...again...?!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 22, 2020, 12:52:43 PM

Typical, BillyB when busted .. deflect and obfuscate


 :ROFL:

The irony.......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 22, 2020, 01:04:53 PM
For those who thought Sweden for a 'shining light' to follow ....

Which nation has the highest death rate per capita for the last 7 days?..

Yup....

SWEDEN.

Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita for last 7 days

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/)

6 deaths per million people and a fully functional economy without hundreds of billions of extra debt.

I'm not supporting Sweden on this so don't get emotional and attack me for that. I still think the true cost and the most accurate results to debate with, will be available once this has all played out.

If Sweden come out of this in the next 6-10 weeks, having passed their peak, then there's a valid argument for what they've done. Wrecking your economy to (generally speaking) save the lives of a group of people either in the lords waiting room or critically ill, may be the most stupid thing we could do. Perfectly healthy people will die or face hardship once we come out of this but we gave people in their final stages a few extra weeks.

And please refrain from arguing about that one soul who you know personally, and using it as a generalisation. I think we'll agree that no transparent country has come out of this looking good. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 22, 2020, 03:52:54 PM

Which nation has the highest death rate per capita for the last 7 days?..

Yup....


Yup . . .

ms will twist statistics to suit his agenda.

Just to remind our expert the data that is noted is for 7 days. The first cases were most likely in Sweden sometime in February so that is just shy of 100 days. If you compare the death ratio to say Italy or the United Kingdom it is lower.

So what are you trying to point out or is this your standard trolling?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 22, 2020, 09:30:08 PM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 22, 2020, 09:52:22 PM
This is another Peter Zeihan video. This is just about the coronavirus. He go into why there is going to be a second wave and why it is going to be worse than the first. He also expects the virus will start effecting more young people and why. He also thinks the USA does not get the virus under control before the second wave starts. He predicts this will keep happening until there is a vaccine. He goes into the economics of what he thinks the virus will do in a number of countries. I thought some people here might enjoy this.


https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/play/uZV8drj9-z83SIDH5QSDAvcoW9XoKK2shHIa-6VbxBrmAXMCNQXzM7QUM-tVFGFLsNYcjYIXdbXBQ9vF?continueMode=true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 23, 2020, 12:26:23 AM
This has been a BAD week for Rosco – who relies on Manny – to be told he’s ‘right’ ;))

1/ I’ve been telling Rosco that the UK Corona virus testing program was a farce and he boasted of ‘targets’ being hit …

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/tens-thousands-coronavirus-tests-have-double-counted-officials/

[/i]Tens of thousands of coronavirus tests have been double-counted, officials admit
Two samples taken from the same patient are being recorded as two separate tests in the Government's official figures [/i]

2/ The Portuguese nurse, who helped save Boris…

Rosco refuses to answer the question re her GRADE – as he KNOWS that under current govt plans … she wouldn’t BE allowed to come to work in the UK

AND he’s ignored the Royal College of Nursing backing ME up, whilst ‘congratulating himself’

3/ The GBP continues to fall, as the UK govt. ignores the pleas of UK business about the folly of not negotiating a trade deal with the EU that will avoid tariffs ..

https://www.teletrader.com/pound-falls-as-eu-sparks-no-deal-brexit-fears/news/details/52172446?ts=1590214536596  Right then, Rosco.. tell us about how we’ll be ‘better off’ while we import more than we sell ?

4/ While Health Minister Hancock ensures he’ll be the fall guy for the govts Corona mistakes, the Home Secretary was adamant that her increased NHS surcharge for resident non UK citizens were ‘fair’ and that they would be imposed on those working in the NHS …   then Bojo got taken apart because he   spoke of £900 million saving for the NHS with the figure was TWENTY times less.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-coronavirus-yearly-healthcare-charge-migrants-nhs-social-care-a9525871.html

With the Royal College of Nursing on BoJo’s case, once more … he did a u-turn and announced that NHS and care-workers would NOT be asked to pay the fee.

These are all howlers Moby has pointed out .

Gosh, why does being ‘wrong’ feel like “ I told you so, Rosco ?”

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 23, 2020, 01:50:56 AM
Wow, Thank you, Manny .. Never thought my response would see the light of day
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 23, 2020, 03:04:48 AM
This has been a BAD week for Rosco – who relies on Manny – to be told he’s ‘right’ ;))

1/ I’ve been telling Rosco that the UK Corona virus testing program was a farce and he boasted of ‘targets’ being hit …

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/tens-thousands-coronavirus-tests-have-double-counted-officials/

[/i]Tens of thousands of coronavirus tests have been double-counted, officials admit
Two samples taken from the same patient are being recorded as two separate tests in the Government's official figures [/i]

2/ The Portuguese nurse, who helped save Boris…

Rosco refuses to answer the question re her GRADE – as he KNOWS that under current govt plans … she wouldn’t BE allowed to come to work in the UK

AND he’s ignored the Royal College of Nursing backing ME up, whilst ‘congratulating himself’

3/ The GBP continues to fall, as the UK govt. ignores the pleas of UK business about the folly of not negotiating a trade deal with the EU that will avoid tariffs ..

https://www.teletrader.com/pound-falls-as-eu-sparks-no-deal-brexit-fears/news/details/52172446?ts=1590214536596  Right then, Rosco.. tell us about how we’ll be ‘better off’ while we import more than we sell ?

4/ While Health Minister Hancock ensures he’ll be the fall guy for the govts Corona mistakes, the Home Secretary was adamant that her increased NHS surcharge for resident non UK citizens were ‘fair’ and that they would be imposed on those working in the NHS …   then Bojo got taken apart because he   spoke of £900 million saving for the NHS with the figure was TWENTY times less.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-coronavirus-yearly-healthcare-charge-migrants-nhs-social-care-a9525871.html

With the Royal College of Nursing on BoJo’s case, once more … he did a u-turn and announced that NHS and care-workers would NOT be asked to pay the fee.

These are all howlers Moby has pointed out .

Gosh, why does being ‘wrong’ feel like “ I told you so, Rosco ?”

 

Desperate ramblings from an old man who should know better!

Moby, I’ve explained the nurse thing several times to you. That you cannot grasp the concept does not mean that you’re correct. Your inability to read and understand even the most simple table, drawn up concisely so even people of your capacity can understand, makes this a pointless conversation. Said nurse or any other at a similar low level, would qualify with 70 points.

She would get a visa because even at the lowest salary level;

Job offer from approved sponsor 20 points.
Job at appropriate skill level 20 points.
Speaks English 10 points.
Low salary 0 points.
Job in shortage occupation 20 points.

The sum of which = 70 points and a visa for our poor lowly paid nurse. If she can’t reach the 70 points then the reality is, we don’t need her. What don’t you understand Moby, or is it that the facts don’t sit well with your narrative?

70 points are required to be eligible to apply
Characteristics   Essential   Points
Offer of job by approved sponsor   Yes   20
Job at appropriate skill level   Yes   20
Speaks English at required level   Yes   10
Salary of £20,480 (minimum) – £23,039   No   0
Salary of £23,040 – £25,599   No   10
Salary of £25,600 or above   No   20
Job in a shortage occupation (as designated by the MAC)   No   20
Education qualification: PhD in subject relevant to the job   No   10
Education qualification: PhD in a STEM subject relevant to the job   No   20



The rest of your cry for help is just utterings from an unstable old man. Get help Moby because it must be difficult for those around you. I take no joy from schooling you day in day out, I just hope that you manage to learn from it and it saves those closest to you, from further despair.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 23, 2020, 03:18:17 AM

Desperate ramblings from an old man who should know better!

Moby, I’ve explained the nurse thing several times to you. That you cannot grasp the concept does not mean that you’re correct. Your inability to read and understand even the most simple table, drawn up concisely so even people of your capacity can understand, makes this a pointless conversation. Said nurse or any other at a similar low level, would qualify with 70 points.

She would get a visa because even at the lowest salary level;

Job offer from approved sponsor 20 points.
Job at appropriate skill level 20 points.
Speaks English 10 points.
Low salary 0 points.
Job in shortage occupation 20 points.

The sum of which = 70 points and a visa for our poor lowly paid nurse. If she can’t reach the 70 points then the reality is, we don’t need her. What don’t you understand Moby, or is it that the facts don’t sit well with your narrative?

70 points are required to be eligible to apply
Characteristics   Essential   Points
Offer of job by approved sponsor   Yes   20
Job at appropriate skill level   Yes   20
Speaks English at required level   Yes   10
Salary of £20,480 (minimum) – £23,039   No   0
Salary of £23,040 – £25,599   No   10
Salary of £25,600 or above   No   20
Job in a shortage occupation (as designated by the MAC)   No   20
Education qualification: PhD in subject relevant to the job   No   10
Education qualification: PhD in a STEM subject relevant to the job   No   20



The rest of your cry for help is just utterings from an unstable old man. Get help Moby because it must be difficult for those around you. I take no joy from schooling you day in day out, I just hope that you manage to learn from it and it saves those closest to you, from further despair.

Dear Rosco

Thank you for trying to mislead the  dear reader with your made up stuff:

1/ AGAIN .. the Portuguese Nurse would NOT qualify under the current plans - that's WHY the RCN on on the govt's case

2/ I note you can't admit the Corona virus testing program was a farce and the targets being hit WAS a lie

3/ I note you chose not to deal with our falling GBP - which means you'll pay more to import ...you DO  import .. you've told us

4/ I note you chose not to deal with the govts u-turn on NHS surcharges

We both know *I* know about the qualies necessary to get non EU folk into the UK to work and have done so  and am doing this .. yet here is Rosco, STILL trying to tell me 'he knows better'  :coffeeread:



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 23, 2020, 03:39:07 AM

Cornfed, do you HAVE kids ?

I ask as wackos like you ensure measles epidemics supporting claims that vaccines 'aren't proven / cause harm'   Kids of wacko parents then go around spreading a disease than can even kill, let alone cause remainder of life defects, ALL because of ignorance.

I chose the DM as a link as it is not a 'lefty news rag' ..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7556137/MMR-End-vaccine-ignorance.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7556137/MMR-End-vaccine-ignorance.html)

Then there's your contribution to "5G is dangerous" ..

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/04/britains_anti5g_protests/ (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/04/britains_anti5g_protests/)

"Yes, the people who gathered in London, against expert medical advice, this past weekend, are idiots. You don't have to remind us of that. They earnestly believe the COVID-19 pandemic isn't a real thing. Those people hooked up to ventilators don't have a disease but are merely suffering the effects of radiation poisoning. We don't need a lockdown, they insist, but rather to tear down the handful of 5G towers that have cropped up in most major UK cities.

"I think we will be living in a far worse, dystopian version of Nazi Germany," said one protestor in Parliament Square, who apparently thought the Third Reich was some kind of egalitarian wonderland.

"This virus has never been proven to exist," shouted another, who presumably missed the invention of the electron microscope."

Couldn't have put it, better ..THIS is our 'Cornfed' ...



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 23, 2020, 08:00:11 AM
This morning news a 161 children in New York who have recovered from the virus have a syndrome that seems to attack the circulatory system. Three have died. There seems to be long term effects to the virus not yet understood. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 23, 2020, 08:14:33 AM
This morning news a 161 children in New York who have recovered from the virus have a syndrome that seems to attack the circulatory system. Three have died. There seems to be long term effects to the virus not yet understood.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/kawasaki-disease/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 23, 2020, 04:32:24 PM

Desperate ramblings from an old man who should know better!

Moby, I’ve explained the nurse thing several times to you. That you cannot grasp the concept does not mean that you’re correct. Your inability to read and understand even the most simple table, drawn up concisely so even people of your capacity can understand, makes this a pointless conversation. Said nurse or any other at a similar low level, would qualify with 70 points.

She would get a visa because even at the lowest salary level;

Job offer from approved sponsor 20 points.
Job at appropriate skill level 20 points.
Speaks English 10 points.
Low salary 0 points.
Job in shortage occupation 20 points.

The sum of which = 70 points and a visa for our poor lowly paid nurse. If she can’t reach the 70 points then the reality is, we don’t need her. What don’t you understand Moby, or is it that the facts don’t sit well with your narrative?

70 points are required to be eligible to apply
Characteristics   Essential   Points
Offer of job by approved sponsor   Yes   20
Job at appropriate skill level   Yes   20
Speaks English at required level   Yes   10
Salary of £20,480 (minimum) – £23,039   No   0
Salary of £23,040 – £25,599   No   10
Salary of £25,600 or above   No   20
Job in a shortage occupation (as designated by the MAC)   No   20
Education qualification: PhD in subject relevant to the job   No   10
Education qualification: PhD in a STEM subject relevant to the job   No   20



The rest of your cry for help is just utterings from an unstable old man. Get help Moby because it must be difficult for those around you. I take no joy from schooling you day in day out, I just hope that you manage to learn from it and it saves those closest to you, from further despair.

Dear Rosco

Thank you for trying to mislead the  dear reader with your made up stuff:

1/ AGAIN .. the Portuguese Nurse would NOT qualify under the current plans - that's WHY the RCN on on the govt's case

2/ I note you can't admit the Corona virus testing program was a farce and the targets being hit WAS a lie

3/ I note you chose not to deal with our falling GBP - which means you'll pay more to import ...you DO  import .. you've told us

4/ I note you chose not to deal with the govts u-turn on NHS surcharges

We both know *I* know about the qualies necessary to get non EU folk into the UK to work and have done so  and am doing this .. yet here is Rosco, STILL trying to tell me 'he knows better'  :coffeeread:

 :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 23, 2020, 04:53:41 PM
Well it is one way to get rid of a product you can not sell presently!

https://www.dw.com/en/german-brewery-gives-away-free-beer-after-covid-19-dashes-sales/a-53366797
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 23, 2020, 05:48:00 PM
Well it is one way to get rid of a product you can not sell presently!

https://www.dw.com/en/german-brewery-gives-away-free-beer-after-covid-19-dashes-sales/a-53366797


That was a smart marketing move. Even if they opened right away a lot of their beer was going to be thrown away soon, because


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36110288
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 23, 2020, 07:16:58 PM
Studying the numbers on Worldometers I scrolled way down. It is interesting to note the overwhelming majority of nations that are green, (free of the virus) are island nations. While it is interesting, not sure I would read that much into this reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 24, 2020, 01:34:25 AM
SWEDEN The failed 'experiment'

Aim: 'Herd Immunity' and lessor impact on economy:

Result: FAIL

1/ relatively small percentage of Stockholm residents with antibodies

2/ HIGH death rates ( more than THEN times that of neighbours Norway or Finland )

3/ Economy :  SWeden's comparatively open economy hasn’t translated into economic benefits for Swedes. The Swedish economy is contracting at a similar rate to the rest of Europe. For a country as dependent on international trade and finance as Sweden, the recession is mostly a function of the European and global economic recession.

So, WHY did all those people need to die, unnecessarily?


More stats that those in bone-head mode won't like:

a/ May 21st, it was revealed by independent modelers in Sweden that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control the coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had been exposed to the virus by late April. This percentage is actually lower than estimates from several of the hardest hit cities in the world, such as Wuhan, Madrid, and New York, all of which were under lockdown. Moreover, it’s estimated that between 4%-7% of Sweden’s population has been infected to date. This is not materially different from country-wide estimates for France and Spain, two nations that imposed harsh lockdowns.

b/ As of Friday, May 22nd, 3,925 people have died from Covid-19 in Sweden, a country with a population of 10 million. Neighbours Denmark, Finland and Norway - each with populations about half of Sweden’s - have recorded death tolls of 561, 306 and 235, respectively.

c/ The number of confirmed cases in Sweden stood at 32,809 on May 22nd, between three and five times higher than neighboring countries. But, it’s likely the Swedish figure vastly undercounts the real number of infections given that the country’s testing rate is remarkably low compared to Western European countries and the U.S.

d/ Calculated over the entire time period of the pandemic, Sweden’s death rate has been about average among Western countries, though many times higher than its Scandinavian neighbors, and also higher than the U.S.

e/ Conspicuously, in the past week, based on a rolling seven-day average, Sweden currently has the highest per capita mortality rate in Europe, having overtaken the U.K., Italy and Belgium. In recent weeks, as deaths have decreased significantly in most other European countries, Sweden’s numbers have remained flat.


f/ The death rate is notable, because Sweden has a relatively low population density, a disproportionate number of single households, and low rates of chronic conditions known to be risk factors for severe Covid-19 illness and death.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/05/23/swedens-gamble-on-coronavirus-has-it-paid-off/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/05/23/swedens-gamble-on-coronavirus-has-it-paid-off/)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 24, 2020, 11:31:25 AM
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/joseph-mercola/bioweapons-expert-speaks-out-about-novel-coronavirus/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 24, 2020, 01:14:53 PM
Robert Kennedy calls for an investigation into Bill Gates.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bill-gates-and-the-depopulation-agenda-robert-f-kennedy-junior-calls-for-an-investigation/5710021
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 24, 2020, 03:54:12 PM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 24, 2020, 03:56:03 PM
Hopefully so. It's what has generally happened in the past with viral epidemics.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 24, 2020, 04:59:50 PM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

You’re probably right.

I’ll be sorry to see it go. I’m pretty happy with some free Boris cash, the business is busy (even with masks and hand gel now), I’m loving the nice and quiet roads and no pollution. I might be in a minority, but there’s been absolutely no downside for us. We were drinking Moët Chandon this evening. Golden days.  :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 24, 2020, 07:28:30 PM
Is “sanitary terror” now being used by tyrannical governments as “the new norm”?


https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/05/15/how-biosecurity-is-enabling-digital-neo-feudalism/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 24, 2020, 08:22:30 PM
Dr Shiva claims that Corona Virus was a set up to take down President Trump.

           
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 24, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

You’re probably right.

I’ll be sorry to see it go. I’m pretty happy with some free Boris cash, the business is busy (even with masks and hand gel now), I’m loving the nice and quiet roads and no pollution. I might be in a minority, but there’s been absolutely no downside for us. We were drinking Moët Chandon this evening. Golden days.  :nod:

Yep gone for sure within a few months..we have also been busy picked up lots of good stuff discounted online..

So we had Brexit.. then Covid I wonder what next.. I think turn a full circle back to Brexit and no deal  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Omega1982 on May 24, 2020, 10:16:03 PM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

You’re probably right.

I’ll be sorry to see it go. I’m pretty happy with some free Boris cash, the business is busy (even with masks and hand gel now), I’m loving the nice and quiet roads and no pollution. I might be in a minority, but there’s been absolutely no downside for us. We were drinking Moët Chandon this evening. Golden days.  :nod:

What about international travel?  No canceled trips?  I would love to be in Asia on holiday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 24, 2020, 11:04:55 PM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

Yep gone for sure within a few months..we have also been busy picked up lots of good stuff discounted online..


China locks down cities in the north. China is also ordering large amounts of medical gear like it is getting ready for second wave.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 24, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote
"Things are never the same after a pandemic as they were before," said Dr. Liam Fox, a former U.K. defense secretary who's studied these outbreaks for a forthcoming book. "The current outbreak will be no exception."

People died horribly, afflicted with terrible aches, vomiting, and pus-and-blood-filled "buboes" in their armpits and groins.

That may have been the most consequential outbreak in the history of the Americas until the Spanish Flu erupted in 1918.

Among those struck down were a number of American delegates to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 — many of whom were opposed to making German ­reparations a condition of the Treaty of Versailles.

"The Spanish Flu," says Spinney, "re­sculpted human populations."

The Spanish Flu and the economic depression that followed led to a wave of nationalism, authoritarianism, and another world war. Spinney says the same could happen in the aftermath of the coronavirus, reversing the tide of globalization and fueling xenophobia at a time when countries should be united against a common viral enemy. "We've forgotten a lot of the lessons that we learned after the Spanish Flu and other pandemics," Spinney says. "We may be about to learn them again."

https://theweek.com/articles/915738/how-pandemics-change-society

History always repeats itself.   :reading: :biggrin: :nod: :'( :dh: :duh: :pointlaugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 25, 2020, 12:59:48 AM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

You’re probably right.

I’ll be sorry to see it go. I’m pretty happy with some free Boris cash, the business is busy (even with masks and hand gel now), I’m loving the nice and quiet roads and no pollution. I might be in a minority, but there’s been absolutely no downside for us. We were drinking Moët Chandon this evening. Golden days.  :nod:

What about international travel?  No canceled trips?  I would love to be in Asia on holiday.

Yes, I’ve not been able to go jollying in Asia this year as I wanted to. But for business I’ve managed to source new suppliers at arms length. I found a new supplier in Taiwan mid pandemic (as Taiwan never shut down), I’m doing a deal right now with one in China and I’ve been ordering samples to look at from Ali Express, and anything I like I can follow up on from there. We learn to work differently.

We are not sure if wifey can have her usual August jolly to Russia yet. If the airlines are flying by then, which is likely, she will. If not, she’ll wait.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 25, 2020, 01:09:33 AM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

Yep gone for sure within a few months..we have also been busy picked up lots of good stuff discounted online..


China locks down cities in the north. China is also ordering large amounts of medical gear like it is getting ready for second wave.


That’s a Canadian channel run by Falun Gong people. It’s a politically motivated channel. What they’ve done there is take some small nuggets of fact and extrapolated speculative stories from them. It’s a quite clever way to spread fake news probably. Even the term “CCP Virus” is misleading.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on May 25, 2020, 03:44:02 AM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:
Governments world wide are going to seize the opportunity to impose punitive taxation and arbitrary restrictions on personal freedoms, travel and whatever else they think they can get away with under the guise of Covid -19 prevention.

Life, I suspect , is going to get a lot more restrictive and expensive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 25, 2020, 05:35:23 AM
Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:
Governments world wide are going to seize the opportunity to impose punitive taxation and arbitrary restrictions on personal freedoms, travel and whatever else they think they can get away with under the guise of Covid -19 prevention.

Life, I suspect , is going to get a lot more restrictive and expensive.

Exactly 25 minutes and 32 seconds after the governments realized a bit of a pandemic was on the way they were already making plans, those plans have been sat in a vault for some time collecting cobwebs...

It will always be Joe Bloggs who pays the price of it all..

BUT something bigger will happen soon enough that no plans will ever fix! Its on the way already this very second!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 25, 2020, 06:37:48 AM
If only Steveboy had been correct about a 'plan', given the govt is made up of most of the same people who saw how BADLY the UK was prepared for such an event.....

They didn't adopt the recommendations. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 25, 2020, 07:36:25 AM

Looks like it is disappearing very fast now the old virus.. it will be gone well well before a vaccine is made..

Water under the bridge by Christmas.. :thumbsup:

Yep gone for sure within a few months..we have also been busy picked up lots of good stuff discounted online..



The channel exist because China has become the new most hated country in the world. You seem very good at spotting propaganda when it is against a country you like but you do not see it when it is against the USA. Asian country trusted China less and did much better in fighting the disease. None the less what is happening in China is not going to come from a pro China channel. What this is saying is China is buying a lot of equipment like it getting ready to fight a new wave of the virus. Parts of the country in the north are shut down. What part of that are you saying is untrue? You keep saying the there is not a possibility of second wave because look at China. What this is saying there is reason to doubt that China is doing all that well.


This talks about what China did to intentionally help spread the coronavirus to the west and the rest of the world. It is not a pro China interview neither. But members of the government in Australia have also explained that they feel this way. Trump keeps saying this but he has done a poor job of explaining why he feels like this. This does a good job of explaining that point of view. This goes on for a long time but I was mainly interested in what it said in the first part of about the spread of the virus.

China did not tell the world that this virus was highly contagious for at least a month after they knew it was. Two China pressured the world to keep taking visitors from China after they knew it was contagious and spreading wildly while telling the world it was not able to spread from person to person.  Now Manny what part of that are you saying it not true?
 


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 25, 2020, 09:07:20 AM
SCAMDEMIC!!


https://www.amny.com/coronavirus/brooklyn-field-hospital-shuts-after-21-million-construction-and-zero-patients/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 25, 2020, 10:08:05 AM
SCAMDEMIC!!


https://www.amny.com/coronavirus/brooklyn-field-hospital-shuts-after-21-million-construction-and-zero-patients/

This bright chap seeks my 'attenuation for pointing out the bleeding obvious.

100k have died in his country.

Sum 'scam'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 25, 2020, 10:50:40 AM
Interesting...

           
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 25, 2020, 11:51:52 AM
The guy here only seems to talking about deaths and does not count what happens when you do not have a lock down.

WE had an aircraft carrier that started to get the virus. In the end so many young people got sick that the carrier could not function. The French tried the same thing and they had the same problem. When studying what happen to people with continue exposure to the coronavirus the USA meat packaging plants are a good example. Where people were expose continuously the death rate among young people when way up.  Still so many workers got sick the plants had to be shut down. In Russia 197 doctors died from coronavirus from what I read. Likely repeated exposure where being young was not as much help. 

I am sure of one thing. China did not lock down because of an over abundance of caution.

A recent video I saw had a shop owner in China out in front of his business. He said he is trying to sell out the last of his inventory to go out of business. He said that there were not enough customers to even do that. Next they show a wide shot and you can see the whole street where all the small stores were closed. Now China is locking other cities where the virus is trying to make a comeback.

This week end we have a lot of young people defying the order of social distancing. I bet we have a new wave in about a month.

The Swedes and Korea say they are able to make it because people will follow the guidelines without a lockdown. Here in the USA we seem unable to do that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 25, 2020, 12:10:35 PM
Yes, the guy is talking only half the story.
The deaths are the easy bit. The hospitals were not full of people dying. The hospitals were full of people my age and younger who were so sick they needed medical support.

It's kinda like a war...

The dead are the dead. The real problem is the wounded. Taking care of them is hard work and costly. The effect on morale from the wounded is much greater than the now invisible dead.

That's not to say he does not have a point worthy of consideration and frankly, it's not news to anyone decently well informed that most of the dead were old people.

Of course, had the younger people not received the care they needed then a good chunk of them would've been dead too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 25, 2020, 03:03:59 PM
Whose life is precious? How does society decide?

From the indoctrination of the left, or from more traditional values?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 25, 2020, 09:29:54 PM
This is why the USA is going to have a second wave soon. All kinds of people under sixty believe they have nothing to be worried about and have little concern for the older people. The Koreans did not have to lock down and some dude wrote a story on the internet that the lock down did not help. 



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/memorial-day-2020-some-americans-break-from-social-distancing-while-others-embrace-it/ar-BB14xYEB?li=BBnb7Kz&fullscreen=true#image=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 25, 2020, 10:13:06 PM
This is sad but it show how hard it is going to be to get back to normal. Meat packing plants are continuing to have problem with spreading the Coronavirus after spending millions on plant safety.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/the-meat-industry-is-trying-to-get-back-to-normal-but-workers-are-still-getting-sick-%e2%80%94-and-shortages-may-get-worse/ar-BB14zSiK?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 26, 2020, 08:29:24 AM
[Irrelevant leftist political comments removed]

(https://i.imgur.com/wInvjFA.jpg)

That and a 75k average for daily testing since the govt set a target of 100k, that andrewfi and Rosco 'assured' us was accurate....

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 26, 2020, 09:56:43 AM
Japan exits CV emergency with only 850 deaths.


https://www.newsweek.com/japan-ends-coronavirus-emergency-850-deaths-no-lockdown-1506336
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 26, 2020, 10:51:55 AM
Japan exits CV emergency with only 850 deaths.


https://www.newsweek.com/japan-ends-coronavirus-emergency-850-deaths-no-lockdown-1506336

Cornfed,

you DO realise that was the second lockdown..?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52305055 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52305055)

Coronavirus lockdown: Lessons from Hokkaido's second wave of infections

In light of this 'news' .. I'm guessing 'new' only for you, what's your point, now ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 26, 2020, 12:45:29 PM
Too much either uninformed or purposefully misleading comment and posting about how 'only old people die' with the clear suggestion that everyone else is perfectly OK.

That's going to bite us in the ass - even if one believes, as I do, that getting past this requires lots of people to have been infected.

Almost worse is the criticisms laid at  decision makers on the basis of perfect hindsight.

That said, I really wish that the UK and other countries had followed the UK's modeling from the Oxford University group rather than the Imperial College group.

It is clear with hindsight that the Oxford group's model was a closer prognostication of what actually happened. Following that model would've lessened the social and economic disruption.

Of course there'd have been no prizes given to any decision makers for following a less stringent course had things gone anywhere close to the Imperial College model. It's a no-win situation for most of the world's leaders and we still don't know how things will turn out in those places that, for the time being, seem to have gotten off relatively lightly.

I expect that, in the UK, Boris Johnson will end up having a real Winston Churchill moment. After the worst of this is passed he will find himself having managed through the war only to br rejected as soon as the peace arrives.

For now, I am still imprisoned in a place that I don't want to be. It looks like it'll be months before that changes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 26, 2020, 01:48:13 PM
Im bored of the virus..

I got a bit of a sore throat today I hope its from working through the night no sleep then a long walk.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 26, 2020, 02:21:29 PM
Too much either uninformed or purposefully misleading comment and posting about how 'only old people die' with the clear suggestion that everyone else is perfectly OK.

That's going to bite us in the ass - even if one believes, as I do, that getting past this requires lots of people to have been infected.

Almost worse is the criticisms laid at  decision makers on the basis of perfect hindsight.

That said, I really wish that the UK and other countries had followed the UK's modeling from the Oxford University group rather than the Imperial College group.

It is clear with hindsight that the Oxford group's model was a closer prognostication of what actually happened. Following that model would've lessened the social and economic disruption.

Of course there'd have been no prizes given to any decision makers for following a less stringent course had things gone anywhere close to the Imperial College model. It's a no-win situation for most of the world's leaders and we still don't know how things will turn out in those places that, for the time being, seem to have gotten off relatively lightly.

I expect that, in the UK, Boris Johnson will end up having a real Winston Churchill moment. After the worst of this is passed he will find himself having managed through the war only to br rejected as soon as the peace arrives.

For now, I am still imprisoned in a place that I don't want to be. It looks like it'll be months before that changes.

Hindsight is usually very good!

Odd I also have the same feeling regarding B. Johnson. It will be interesting to see how D. Trump will fare in November.

My guess we all will be able to fly about by mid June. Also I suspect there will initially be a fare bit of demand until the second wave.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 26, 2020, 02:23:36 PM
[Irrelevant leftist political comments removed]

(https://i.imgur.com/wInvjFA.jpg)

That and a 75k average for daily testing since the govt set a target of 100k, that andrewfi and Rosco 'assured' us was accurate....

I think a number of the countries are at the low end because of they do very little testing. In the USA I doubt that we catching only about half of the cases because testing is still not enough. WE are supposing to be doing  over 300,000 a day. Still not enough. Getting people isolated before they can spread it is what is important. Then follow up on all their family members and get them tested and isolated also.  I understand cases in South America and Africa still not near a peak yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 26, 2020, 02:31:12 PM

Hindsight is usually very good!

Odd I also have the same feeling regarding B. Johnson. It will be interesting to see how D. Trump will fare in November.

My guess we all will be able to fly about by mid June. Also I suspect there will initially be a fare bit of demand until the second wave.


Trump want the North Carolina convention to be done like it usually is with a large crowd. If there is a lot of infections out of that conventions, he will look foolish in November.  Secondly, a bad second wave will be hard on him also. This time he will not be able to blame it on the Chinese.

Countries are going broke over the virus. Greece and Spain are going to start to let tourist come without quarantine beginning on July one. I doubt it will safe then.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 26, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
Sweden’s population is

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/sweden-population/

4125 deaths equals about .04% have died there.

So much for moldy’s propaganda
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 26, 2020, 03:13:51 PM
Moby, why are you lying again?
As you know, I told you correctly, what the basis of counting was and tried to explain to you why it was rational to work in that way.

Why do you keep on telling lies about matters where your veracity is easily checked? I knew a person who had a mental illness. A symptom was a tendency to invent a reality that was not congruent with the world shared by billions of other humans.

Time and therapy enabled a return to normality. It happened because of a desire to do so. I doubt that you are as fortunate.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 26, 2020, 03:47:28 PM

Which nation has the highest death rate per capita for the last 7 days?..

Yup....


Yup . . .

ms will twist statistics to suit his agenda.

Just to remind our expert the data that is noted is for 7 days. The first cases were most likely in Sweden sometime in February so that is just shy of 100 days. If you compare the death ratio to say Italy or the United Kingdom it is lower.

So what are you trying to point out or is this your standard trolling?


Please stop ms.

The numbers have been explained and yet you continue. Either as noted by Andrew and others you are lying or mentally deficient. . .
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 26, 2020, 07:57:30 PM

Which nation has the highest death rate per capita for the last 7 days?..

Yup....


Yup . . .

ms will twist statistics to suit his agenda.

Just to remind our expert the data that is noted is for 7 days. The first cases were most likely in Sweden sometime in February so that is just shy of 100 days. If you compare the death ratio to say Italy or the United Kingdom it is lower.

So what are you trying to point out or is this your standard trolling?


Please stop ms.

The numbers have been explained and yet you continue. Either as noted by Andrew and others you are lying or mentally deficient. . .


Both.

He’s an epic liar, witness the “business man” couldn’t afford a biz hotel, nor a rental and had a polemic over less than 7 bucks.

Then he’s been schooled by Andy and Rosco least a hundred times, poor sap comprehends next to nothing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 26, 2020, 11:39:28 PM
Moby, why are you lying again?


Andrewfi, why are YOU pretending to be 'offended from Oakham' when you KNOW 'my' figures are TRULY representative of UK deaths ?

The dear Reader can view 'right of centre' SKY NEWS and learn about he UK's excess deaths ..



Using UK Govt figures from the ONS ( GB) and and NISRA ( NI) 'our' excess death are running at SIXTY THOUSAND for the two month period of the outbreak hitting the UK ...  The govt STILL uses it's upper 30k figure in briefings ... that is misleading



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 26, 2020, 11:48:50 PM
Sweden’s population is

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/sweden-population/

4125 deaths equals about .04% have died there.

So much for moldy’s propaganda

Cornfed, I realise your 'need' for Sweden's approach to be 'right', but the most recent figures prove it isn't

'My' data clearly enumerates it is the LATEST 7-day rolling average .. 

1/ High death rates  =needless 'experiment'

2/ economy dipping in line with neighbours

3/ Only 7.3% in Stockholm with anti-bodies for SARS-Cov2

That's a FAIL in anyone's terms after so many needly died



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 26, 2020, 11:51:15 PM
Can someone please point out that the UK Daily 'Torygraph' is 'lying, too ? ;)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/)

Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita over past seven days
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 27, 2020, 12:45:43 AM
Moby, now you go right to the core of your dishonesty. You are claiming things that simply didn't happen. I have not commented on matters about which I can know nothing. I cannot know if any particular set of data is accurate or not. I can only comment upon the method of its collection.

Apart from anything else, I know that accuracy can only be claimed against a particular baseline whereas you make it clear that you do not understand this important concept. Your claim is based in your own lack of knowledge.

Why claim things have been written that have not?

You lie and you lie and you lie.

The thing is moby, that when you lie about unimportant matters that have no real connection to your life, then you ensure that nobody believes you about things that do matter to you.

Nothing you say or do has any value. As far as the world is concerned you have no value because your dishonesty makes it so.

You are quite literally an incredible person. A person about whom nothing is credible.

Now, go away, little person. You have received more attention from me than is your due.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 27, 2020, 12:53:26 AM
Russia has the most doctors that died from the coronavirus. Some doctors complain they do not have enough protective supplies. When a doctor dies from the virus the Russian government say they caught the virus while not at work. If a doctor complains then the police has a talk with him. Bonus checks still not arriving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putins-response-to-russias-covid-19-crisis-angers-medical-workers/ar-BB14CNKa?ocid=spartandhp

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 27, 2020, 06:07:56 AM
Russia has the most doctors that died from the coronavirus. Some doctors complain they do not have enough protective supplies. When a doctor dies from the virus the Russian government say they caught the virus while not at work. If a doctor complains then the police has a talk with him. Bonus checks still not arriving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putins-response-to-russias-covid-19-crisis-angers-medical-workers/ar-BB14CNKa?ocid=spartandhp


Christ you really believe that news?? Try looking up about some news in the UK.. did you know many doctors and nurses were using dustbin liners as aprons as they never had enough protective gear?  :laugh:

Do you know how many protests there were in the UK and doctors complaining about it?

And what about in New York? They never had enough hospitals to treat the patients so stuck them in tents in Central Park.. :laugh:

I think Texan you only see in the news what you want to see,, don't worry it's a common problem for many ..some people will only see bad stuff about Boris Johnson , some about trump, some will never ever see any bad news about Tony Blair..

It is not a mental problem.. but it is kind of working that way.. :laugh:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 27, 2020, 06:57:08 AM
Russia has the most doctors that died from the coronavirus. Some doctors complain they do not have enough protective supplies. When a doctor dies from the virus the Russian government say they caught the virus while not at work. If a doctor complains then the police has a talk with him. Bonus checks still not arriving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putins-response-to-russias-covid-19-crisis-angers-medical-workers/ar-BB14CNKa?ocid=spartandhp


Christ you really believe that news?? Try looking up about some news in the UK.. did you know many doctors and nurses were using dustbin liners as aprons as they never had enough protective gear?  :laugh:

Do you know how many protests there were in the UK and doctors complaining about it?

And what about in New York? They never had enough hospitals to treat the patients so stuck them in tents in Central Park.. :laugh:

I think Texan you only see in the news what you want to see,, don't worry it's a common problem for many ..some people will only see bad stuff about Boris Johnson , some about trump, some will never ever see any bad news about Tony Blair..

It is not a mental problem.. but it is kind of working that way.. :laugh:

Medical workers around the world have died because of lack of Personal Protection Equipment.

New York City built a couple field hospitals that were not used. They also sent a military hospital ship that was used for patients with out CV19. My own guess was the medical professionals in China were the hardest hit. At the time no one had a full understanding of the virus and we still don't.

Add to the reality that some countries (or States in the US) are either under or perhaps over counting infections/deaths and everything gets murky.

For what it is worth I tend to doubt MSN as well as CNN, but a very strong suspicion that Fox is also biased in there 'reporting.'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 27, 2020, 08:41:57 AM
Moby, now you go right to the core of your dishonesty.

Why claim things have been written that have not?

You lie and you lie and you lie.

Now, go away, little person. You have received more attention from me than is your due.

It's that damn trap again Andy, the virus got you again.

I appreciate you taking the time to correct our forum fibber because without it, he would power post like an agricultural shit spreader. I'm taking some time out from Mr Liar because you cant correct him even when he's got nowhere to go. He just squirms and lies without a hint of decency.

Either way, I salute your wasted efforts!  tiphat

Edit - Today I read the article regarding Twitter tagging Trump with a fact check warning. Perhaps RUA should have a generic warning to tail onto Moby's silly posts, so we needn't get sucked into his trolling?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 27, 2020, 09:51:41 AM
Medical workers around the world have died because of lack of Personal Protection Equipment.


Even PPE doesn't provide 100% protection. 17,000+ doctors in Italy got infected and hundreds died. I doubt they all didn't have PPE. Working in anything less than a hazmat suit involves risk of infection. Even when taking off PPE and a hazmat suit, there are risks of touching the infected areas of the gear and getting infected.


In other news, CDC says antibody tests are wrong half the time and not good enough to make policy decisions.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/antibody-tests-for-covid-19-wrong-half-the-time-cdc-says/ar-BB14DD2E?ocid=spartanntp


Are Democratic leaders making bad decisions or does the coronavirus prefer to kill Democrats over Republicans? Moral of the story is if you want to significantly increase your chances to live, vote Trump.

http://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-deadliest-where-democrats-live-121518089.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 27, 2020, 10:48:58 AM
Russia has the most doctors that died from the coronavirus. Some doctors complain they do not have enough protective supplies. When a doctor dies from the virus the Russian government say they caught the virus while not at work. If a doctor complains then the police has a talk with him. Bonus checks still not arriving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putins-response-to-russias-covid-19-crisis-angers-medical-workers/ar-BB14CNKa?ocid=spartandhp


Christ you really believe that news?? Try looking up about some news in the UK.. did you know many doctors and nurses were using dustbin liners as aprons as they never had enough protective gear?  :laugh:

Do you know how many protests there were in the UK and doctors complaining about it?

And what about in New York? They never had enough hospitals to treat the patients so stuck them in tents in Central Park.. :laugh:

I think Texan you only see in the news what you want to see,, don't worry it's a common problem for many ..some people will only see bad stuff about Boris Johnson , some about trump, some will never ever see any bad news about Tony Blair..

It is not a mental problem.. but it is kind of working that way.. :laugh:

This seeing only the news you want to see happens a lot on this site especially if it is anti USA.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on May 27, 2020, 12:29:17 PM
Russia has the most doctors that died from the coronavirus. Some doctors complain they do not have enough protective supplies. When a doctor dies from the virus the Russian government say they caught the virus while not at work. If a doctor complains then the police has a talk with him. Bonus checks still not arriving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putins-response-to-russias-covid-19-crisis-angers-medical-workers/ar-BB14CNKa?ocid=spartandhp


Christ you really believe that news?? Try looking up about some news in the UK.. did you know many doctors and nurses were using dustbin liners as aprons as they never had enough protective gear?  :laugh:

Do you know how many protests there were in the UK and doctors complaining about it?

And what about in New York? They never had enough hospitals to treat the patients so stuck them in tents in Central Park.. :laugh:

I think Texan you only see in the news what you want to see,, don't worry it's a common problem for many ..some people will only see bad stuff about Boris Johnson , some about trump, some will never ever see any bad news about Tony Blair..

It is not a mental problem.. but it is kind of working that way.. :laugh:

This seeing only the news you want to see happens a lot on this site especially if it is anti USA.

anti USA.. I wouldn't go as far as that.. just truthful .. Im not anti USA myself I don't mind the USA.. just don't like the dictators who seem to run your country..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 27, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
[
Russia has the most doctors that died from the coronavirus. Some doctors complain they do not have enough protective supplies. When a doctor dies from the virus the Russian government say they caught the virus while not at work. If a doctor complains then the police has a talk with him. Bonus checks still not arriving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putins-response-to-russias-covid-19-crisis-angers-medical-workers/ar-BB14CNKa?ocid=spartandhp

Christ you really believe that news?? Try looking up about some news in the UK.. did you know many doctors and nurses were using dustbin liners as aprons as they never had enough protective gear?  :laugh:




anti USA.. I wouldn't go as far as that.. just truthful .. Im not anti USA myself I don't mind the USA.. just don't like the dictators who seem to run your country..

Just truth about Russia. They likely had the worlds most doctors deaths because they covering up the truth extent of the virous. They are doing this by only counting those deaths that did not have a preexisting conditions. If man had a heart condition and got Covid-19 they count the death at heart condition. In the USA it would a covid-19 death. If we would not count all the people that had pre conditions then we only would have about 10 per cent of the deaths we hare now clamming. Doctors for the most part did not have pre existing conditions so it show how bad the covid-19 really was/is in Russia. Maybe worse than New York just no one reports it. It surely will not be in RT news.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 27, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
Holiday destinations compete for biz

Cyprus

Holiday will be refunded if any of the family get infected in Cyprus


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52818749 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52818749)

Folks from UK and Russia, not 'welcome' until July
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 28, 2020, 12:40:33 AM

Just truth about Russia. They likely had the worlds most doctors deaths because they covering up the truth extent of the virous. They are doing this by only counting those deaths that did not have a preexisting conditions. If man had a heart condition and got Covid-19 they count the death at heart condition. In the USA it would a covid-19 death. If we would not count all the people that had pre conditions then we only would have about 10 per cent of the deaths we hare now clamming. Doctors for the most part did not have pre existing conditions so it show how bad the covid-19 really was/is in Russia. Maybe worse than New York just no one reports it. It surely will not be in RT news.
Tex, I think most of us know you're a Ukrainian puppet. You seem to talk a lot of s%&t about Russia, tell me, what experience do you have in Russia? You know, like time actually spent there.

As far as covering up things stick to the USA, they're as good as it gets with that. People here in Russia know there was a problem with the availability of protective gear like in most places around the world that were hit hard by the virus.

You have no idea about the preexisting conditions of whomever died in Russia from the virus. No one's hiding anything, nor is media here scaring people by inflating the death toll of corona.

You can also read reports of medical staff (doctors) dying in most if not all newspapers in Russia. It's not much, if at all different than how you get the news in America.

Here's a memorial started by medical people of all medical staff who have died from corona in this region and their age. Some are from other areas like Chechnya (Чеченская республика) and Dagestan (Дагестан). If you click their names you'll get a bio of the person as well.

If I can get ahold of this, you think Russians can't? Get real.

R.I.P.
 
https://sites.google.com/view/covid-memory/home?authuser=0
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 28, 2020, 01:38:51 AM
You seem to talk a lot of s%&t about Russia, tell me, what experience do you have in Russia? You know, like time actually spent there.

OK, so you're now the 'expert' in the 'veracity' of RU stats? You KEEP suggesting you 'know better', yet RUSSIANS don't seem to agree with you ...

https://meduza.io/feature/2020/05/27/kogda-eto-video-vyshlo-ya-dumala-oni-menya-s-edyat (https://meduza.io/feature/2020/05/27/kogda-eto-video-vyshlo-ya-dumala-oni-menya-s-edyat)

Danchik... in most places people whistle-blowing issues about short-comings re this virus don't get threatened with criminal cases ...

As far as covering up things stick to the USA, they're as good as it gets with that.

Not from what we read above..


No one's hiding anything

'Sure' ...

You can also read reports of medical staff (doctors) dying in most if not all newspapers in Russia. It's not much, if at all different than how you get the news in America.

'Sure', when we can read those protesting about the absence of the 'danger money' payments promised saying "it's like 1937" with the FSB picking up medical staff, making threats, in an attempt to find out who the 'trouble makers' are in Krasnodar ...

Here's a memorial started by medical people of all medical staff who have died from corona in this region and their age. Some are from other areas like Chechnya (Чеченская республика) and Dagestan (Дагестан). If you click their names you'll get a bio of the person as well.

Ah, Dagestan and Chechn'ya..

Yup, they're mentioned in the above article..Criminal cases brought against a medic ( Marina Gammadova ) for showing the dire situation ( incl. piles of bodie in hospital corridors )

Complain about lack of PPE on social media ? .. You are called into the bosses office and told to delete the offending post and issue a 'rebuttal' ..

Doctors protesting in Chechn'ya are referred to as 'provocateurs' on state media ..


Russians have to read this from media organisations forced to 'leave' the RF ...  hmm

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Chris on May 28, 2020, 02:03:54 AM
Holiday destinations compete for biz

Cyprus

Holiday will be refunded if any of the family get infected in Cyprus


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52818749 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52818749)

Folks from UK and Russia, not 'welcome' until July

:(  we were supposed to be flying out to Cyprus early tomorrow morning for a few weeks, can't see us going again now until next year the way things are in the World.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on May 28, 2020, 03:28:11 AM
n/a

Wise move. He only wants to suck you in with cyclical BS and waste your time.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 28, 2020, 05:37:32 AM
Billy, your claim above about the unreliability of serological testing is rather inaccurate. Not helped by the oversimplification in the piece to which you linked.

For starters the claim that antibody tests are wrong half the time is not correct. That's not what the CDC says. Nor do they say that serology tests should not be used for supporting public health decision making.

Here's the relevant CDC page: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/serology-testing.html

One thing worth noting is that when a scientist talks about 'knowing' something she is usually ascribing a different level of certainty to that which most of us will accept. So, when they say that they don't know that antibodies confer immunity - in their terms they don't. However, in practical terms, they do say that antibodies do confer immunity but they are uncertain of the degree to which this is true.

This terminology issue leads to inconsistencies in the guidance given on the page to which I linked where on one level, the personal, they say one thing, but in terms of group or mass effects they say a different thing.

Bottom line: if you've had symptoms of Covid-19 and you now show positive for Covid-19 antibodies when testing with an approved test then you can be pretty sure that the test is accurate. You can improve the certainty with a second test of a slightly different type.

The in accuracy of the testing referred to is not about the tests themselves but related to the statistics due to the prevalence of infection in the community where the testing is being carried out. This can be managed, according to the CDC, through the choice of appropriate test for the specific community.

But yeah, that's all a bit too complex for msnbc so you get told tests are inaccurate. You got programmes again. All you needed to do was click a link closer to the primary data.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 28, 2020, 06:33:17 AM
Aeroflot has just issued a "free" transfer of my flight tickets to Crimea to other dates within 2020.

Looks like my vacation is no longer ensured.

I need to use them before 21-june, so I have time to decide yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 28, 2020, 07:45:06 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52810220

Some thing for our '5G is dangerous', tin-foil hat wearing, Cornfed, to invest in...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 28, 2020, 08:29:20 AM

Just truth about Russia. They likely had the worlds most doctors deaths because they covering up the truth extent of the virous. They are doing this by only counting those deaths that did not have a preexisting conditions. If man had a heart condition and got Covid-19 they count the death at heart condition. In the USA it would a covid-19 death. If we would not count all the people that had pre conditions then we only would have about 10 per cent of the deaths we hare now clamming. Doctors for the most part did not have pre existing conditions so it show how bad the covid-19 really was/is in Russia. Maybe worse than New York just no one reports it. It surely will not be in RT news.
Tex, I think most of us know you're a Ukrainian puppet. You seem to talk a lot of s%&t about Russia, tell me, what experience do you have in Russia? You know, like time actually spent there.

As far as covering up things stick to the USA, they're as good as it gets with that. People here in Russia know there was a problem with the availability of protective gear like in most places around the world that were hit hard by the virus.

You have no idea about the preexisting conditions of whomever died in Russia from the virus. No one's hiding anything, nor is media here scaring people by inflating the death toll of corona.

You can also read reports of medical staff (doctors) dying in most if not all newspapers in Russia. It's not much, if at all different than how you get the news in America.

Here's a memorial started by medical people of all medical staff who have died from corona in this region and their age. Some are from other areas like Chechnya (Чеченская республика) and Dagestan (Дагестан). If you click their names you'll get a bio of the person as well.

If I can get ahold of this, you think Russians can't? Get real.

R.I.P.
 
https://sites.google.com/view/covid-memory/home?authuser=0

Thx Danchik for providing some truth and objectivity.

I don’t like it when people confuse US foreign policy with the heart and soul of America (which is the hard work of blue collar folk along with spirituality of others, looking for a better path) either.

Someday when we the people control our media we’re all going to get along better and build better international relationships.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 28, 2020, 11:09:30 AM
 There's been propaganda about health workers dying around the world. Of course most of the propaganda is untrue but designed to make the sheep (they do have sheep in Texas) believe some story or other.

While it is hard to find absolute numbers, a study has been carried out in the UK using as good quality data as the researchers were able to find.

What did they discover?
Health and care workers, notwithstanding their exposure to the virus, were infected and died in line with their peers in the same age cohort in the general population.

It is likely that this will be the case in most other places. It does seem that Italian health workers did suffer relatively badly though but that's yet to be confirmed with better data. Given the state of preparedness in Russia it seems unlikely that Russian health workers will be dying in unusual numbers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 28, 2020, 01:45:58 PM
This is a new drug being tested to see if it will help seriously sick Covid-19 patients to not die. 


http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/fda-gives-go-ahead-for-trial-of-experimental-covid-19-drug/ar-BB14Ikgt?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 28, 2020, 03:24:08 PM
Billy, your claim above about the unreliability of serological testing is rather inaccurate.


Then tell us what is accurate. Conclusion on antibody tests from the CDC website  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html

Some tests may exhibit cross-reactivity with other coronaviruses, such as those that cause the common cold. This could result in false-positive test results. Some persons may not develop detectable antibodies after coronavirus infection. In others, it is possible that antibody levels could wane over time to undetectable levels. IgM and IgG antibodies are not present early in infection. Thus, serologic test results do not indicate with certainty the presence or absence of current or previous infection with SARS-CoV-2.

•Serologic test results should not be used to make decisions about grouping persons residing in or being admitted to congregate settings, such as schools, dormitories, or correctional facilities.
•Serologic test results should not be used to make decisions about returning persons to the workplace.
•Until more information is available about the dynamics of IgA detection in serum, testing for IgA antibodies is not recommended.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 28, 2020, 04:42:04 PM
There's been propaganda about health workers dying around the world. . .
What did they discover?
Health and care workers, notwithstanding their exposure to the virus, were infected and died in line with their peers in the same age cohort in the general population.

I would be curious to see some statistics or a study regarding this. From the various reports that I have read are not in agreement.  There was some numbers I saw from Italy, but I consider the sad reality of Italy to be an anomaly. The first public description was from a Chinese Doctor, an eye surgeon I recall, he died from his countries virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 28, 2020, 05:03:41 PM

Italy had tens of thousands of medical workers infected. Death isn't the only thing to consider. For every medical worker that gets infected, it removes them from the job at a time they are most needed. Hopefully the "experts" will shut things down before it gets exponentially out of control like what happened in Italy and NYC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 28, 2020, 05:25:47 PM
Avhdb, I posted the link in my next post below. And Billy, there was not tens of thousands of healthcare workers infected in Italy. It was a lot, but less than 17,000.

Billy, well done for reading. Less well done for not understanding what you copy pasted.

What the opening paragraphs of the linked article says is that, at the moment, serological testing should not be used to assess immunity in individuals because not enough is known about immunity and covid-19. That goes to my point about the meaning of the word 'known' in a scientific or more general context. In the same section, the article notes the following
Quote
these tests can help determine the proportion of a population previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and provide information about populations that may be immune and potentially protected.

Any test for any virus will sometimes have false positives or negatives. The tests referred to in the piece are pretty good. As I recall about 96% in an individual case. One issue in the USA is that firms are allowed to sell into the health system tests that have not been fully validated. There are tests in use that almost certainly do not offer the results claimed for them. Other countries such as the UK (and the rest of the world) have been much more cautious, taking the view that a bad test is worse than no test.

The issue as I noted is a statistical one. In a population with a low incidence of infection a small number of false positives can distort significantly higher the reported number of people with antibodies/immunity. This was explained in the article that you didn't copy paste, I assume you didn't copy paste that part because you didn't understand it.

When you re-read, with a helper, you'll see that serological testing is seen as being worthwhile in cases such as factories, dormitories, schools etc because of the likelihood of greater incidence in such limited settings.

Serological testing IS and SHOULD be used in such circumstances to measure the spread of infection in a larger population such as a city, state or country. Again, that point is made in the article.

From what I have read of the mass media pieces the writers (or the sub editors) have either not understood what they read, have rewritten somebody else's work or chosen to go with the more sensational story.

To be honest, getting one's head around why a test that is 96% likely to pick up antibodies and yet be, in an inappropriate context, very inaccurate is a bit of a brain bender.

What suggests to me that many of the articles written were written by people who did not understand the topic was that they all used, almost word for word, the same text from the CDC article about the statistical issue.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 28, 2020, 05:44:28 PM
Avhdb, here's the paper to which I referred.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article

They estimate that about 1 in 200 deaths were from health care workers which correlates very closely to the proportion of health workers in the UK population.

Italy seems to have been worse affected. By April 16th almost 17,000 Italian healthcare workers had been infected. By that point the country was well past the peak around March 20th. That's around 10% of all cases in the country. Much higher than the UK.

For clarity, the UK number is desths. The Italian number is cases.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 28, 2020, 11:23:37 PM
Would moldy approve of cheating like this? That was a rhetorical question of course.  :laugh:


https://www.westernjournal.com/washington-inflates-covid-19-numbers-includes-gunshot-victims-among-deaths/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 28, 2020, 11:25:46 PM
There's been propaganda about health workers dying around the world. . .
What did they discover?
Health and care workers, notwithstanding their exposure to the virus, were infected and died in line with their peers in the same age cohort in the general population.

I would be curious to see some statistics or a study regarding this. From the various reports that I have read are not in agreement.  There was some numbers I saw from Italy, but I consider the sad reality of Italy to be an anomaly. The first public description was from a Chinese Doctor, an eye surgeon I recall, he died from his countries virus.

There’s liars, there’s damn liars and then there are statistics!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 29, 2020, 04:45:46 AM
Avhdb, here's the paper to which I referred.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article

They estimate that about 1 in 200 deaths were from health care workers which correlates very closely to the proportion of health workers in the UK population.

Italy seems to have been worse affected. By April 16th almost 17,000 Italian healthcare workers had been infected. By that point the country was well past the peak around March 20th. That's around 10% of all cases in the country. Much higher than the UK.

For clarity, the UK number is desths. The Italian number is cases.

Thank you  tiphat

It is an interesting read. Unfortunately as the authors note it is a small sample using very limited input. Also I suspect if the time period was earlier some of the percentages would be different (higher).

One thing noted was the higher percentage of Negroe and Asian deaths. It is at least interesting to compare this reality of the general population. Also the reality that there were more female deaths than male is an interesting fact.

Anyways it is a piece of a puzzle where we still do not know what the big picture looks like.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 29, 2020, 06:11:45 AM
Yes, a small sample but valid nonetheless. They point the issue out as a matter of course.

The point really is that, given the way in which we get infected as humans is the same no matter what work we do that the numbers are illustrative. We can be pretty sure that the infection rate for healthcare workers is neither several times higher or lower than the what these researchers found.

Yes, the BAME effect is noteworthy and is being investigated at the moment as a safety issue. It may have been after this research, but when this effect came to light there were changes to the way that healthcare staff were being rostered.

And no, we will not know, ever, everything but analysis can really only happen in the light of hindsight.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 29, 2020, 07:43:51 AM
This is a new drug being tested to see if it will help seriously sick Covid-19 patients to not die. 


http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/fda-gives-go-ahead-for-trial-of-experimental-covid-19-drug/ar-BB14Ikgt?li=BBnb7Kz

From the article:

“The drug contains a type of molecule found in the body which, among other things, is known to have anti-inflammatory and anti-scarring properties, as well as the ability to open the airways.

In addition, the molecule, called vasoactive intestinal peptide, has been shown to regulate proteins which can be involved in cytokine storms, where the immune system dangerously overreacts. This condition is characteristic of COVID-19 patients with ARDS, according to PhaseBio.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 29, 2020, 11:29:33 AM
Hey Steveboy,

this is not so far from you ..

A LOAD of MUPPETS headed for Durdle Door and can be seen 'socially distancing'

(https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/resources/images/11417109.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=responsive-gallery)

Chaotic scenes were reported at Durdle Door over the bank holiday weekend, with a packed beach, lack of social distancing, inconsiderate parking and rubbish strewn across the picturesque estate.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on May 30, 2020, 11:05:02 AM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/georgia/

Quote
"Our goal is to avoid reaching a viral peak and to create a plateau, which will help the Georgian healthcare system withstand COVID-19's impact and allow us to treat all patients and ensure their recovery.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/small-country-big-effort-how-georgia-became-exemplary-in-the-fight-against-covid-19-301056814.html



Quote
Vietnam started preparing for a coronavirus outbreak weeks before its first case was detected.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vietnam-how-this-country-of-95-million-kept-its-coronavirus-death-toll-at-zero/ar-BB14MxiR

Quote
"We never really calculated with a high death toll initially, I must say," he said. "We calculated on more people being sick, but the death toll really came as a surprise to us."

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-per-capita-death-rate-among-highest-2020-5

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/brazil/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/


Different strategies and different number of cases.  So, the "live and let die" strategy does not come out looking so good.  Brazil and India have large areas of poverty regions, so the Brazil attitude that this is just another "common flu situation" has them now in second place on the Covid-19 count.
I would have predicted that India would be the next target for a pandemic "feeding frenzy", but you cannot predict the next hot spot when you have so many "dotards" on this planet.   :duh: :'( :censored: :evilgrin0002: :LIMP: :THDN:

N.B.  I am not referring to those with dementia.   (:) tiphat


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/brazil-grave-diggers-say-were-21908326


Here is an Indian website reporting about Brazil.   (:)

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/long-hours-mass-graves-ppe-a-brazilian-gravedigger-s-daily-odyssey-in-the-times-of-covid-19-1677262-2020-05-12

More volunteers needed to dig up more grave sites.   :'( :dh: :evilgrin0002: :duh: :censored: :GRAVE: :GRAVE: :GRAVE: :GRAVE: :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on May 30, 2020, 11:23:56 AM
I'd not be too quick to use GE as an paragon.

I left there on March 4th and they locked down until this week.

Most Georgians are paranoid they've just put off the inevitable, given all the nations around them have it far worse.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 30, 2020, 07:56:05 PM

Too much BS coming out of Vietnam. Only a few hundred cases and zero deaths yet they created 60,000 extra hospital beds to handle the virus. Go figure. Anyway, I think Vietnam is advertising it's a safe place to vacation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 31, 2020, 09:16:30 AM
Fauci the BS meister changes tune.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fauci-second-covid-may-never-happen
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 31, 2020, 05:59:52 PM
Fauci the BS meister changes tune.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fauci-second-covid-may-never-happen

First we had memorial day where huge number of people did not social distance. Secondly we have big cities where they are now protesting and have no care about social distancing. The question is, Is there any possibility at all that we do not have second wave before the end of July? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 01, 2020, 12:42:12 AM
Fauci the BS meister changes tune.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fauci-second-covid-may-never-happen

Actually, he said and I quote, " Not Inevitable" ..

Please list us why YOU believe Dr Fauci is the BSer, and be prepared to be taken apart ...



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 01, 2020, 12:02:34 PM
Fauci the BS meister changes tune.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fauci-second-covid-may-never-happen

First we had memorial day where huge number of people did not social distance. Secondly we have big cities where they are now protesting and have no care about social distancing. The question is, Is there any possibility at all that we do not have second wave before the end of July?

Quote
"The strength the virus had two months ago is not the same strength it has today," he is quoted as saying. "It is clear today the...disease is different."

Quote
"It is, in my opinion, unlikely that the virus itself is weakening but, if these observations from Italian hospitals are correct, I believe it is more likely caused by patients being infected with lower doses of the virus than any changed inherent property of the virus," he said.

https://www.newsweek.com/italian-doctors-claim-coronavirus-getting-weaker-questioned-experts-1507843

The Covid-19 virus appears to be changing.   :-\
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 01, 2020, 03:15:27 PM
Today, I lost the first person I know to covid-19.

My age, an economist and lawyer who had spent the past few weeks railing against the sham that he claimed covid-19 to be. Unlike some, his argumentation was well-informed and sensible. In fact, in many ways, I did not disagree with him at all. It was a case where one does not argue about known facts but about the analysis of the facts/evidence.

He went very fast. My last contact with him was on 25th May. He died earlier today.

We were not friends, but we discussed about economics and politics online. We did not agree about Covid-19, it's management and economic effects with reference to the Russian situation. While I know covid-19 will pass soon enough the effects upon humanity are only too real. He paid the price.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 01, 2020, 04:17:47 PM
Today, I lost the first person I know to covid-19.

My age, an economist and lawyer who had spent the past few weeks railing against the sham that he claimed covid-19 to be. Unlike some, his argumentation was well-informed and sensible. In fact, in many ways, I did not disagree with him at all. It was a case where one does not argue about known facts but about the analysis of the facts/evidence.

He went very fast. My last contact with him was on 25th May. He died earlier today.

We were not friends, but we discussed about economics and politics online. We did not agree about Covid-19, it's management and economic effects with reference to the Russian situation. While I know covid-19 will pass soon enough the effects upon humanity are only too real. He paid the price.
I also saw a few people kick the bucket because of Covid. It makes me even more cautious to go out in public when the public here is just flaunting the Rules. If they keep this up, soon a second wave in NL will be real.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 01, 2020, 04:27:11 PM
Sorry Andrew to read of your acquaintances demise. One person who I have a number of times met was sick for a few days and is now fully recovered. Another the wife of one of my brothers employees was sick in mid-April and is slowly making a recovery. She is quite overweight.

Looking at the numbers, one thing I notice is the percentage of those who recover, is increasing. I will assume Doctors are improving on there management of the virus if you 'catch' it.

Here is another observation, I enjoy gardening and most things I stick in the ground manage to survive and even blossom! This year there seem to allot more butterflies about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 01, 2020, 07:13:09 PM
What life is like in Taiwan now and when they were not locked down while most of the rest of the world was. I though some readers here might like the video.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/what-life-is-like-in-taiwan-as-country-avoided-lockdown-during-the-coronavirus/vi-BB14SnhQ
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 01, 2020, 09:06:55 PM
What life is like in Taiwan now and when they were not locked down while most of the rest of the world was. I though some readers here might like the video.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/what-life-is-like-in-taiwan-as-country-avoided-lockdown-during-the-coronavirus/vi-BB14SnhQ

Only 400 cases and just 7 deaths.

Very interesting video, others should watch.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 03, 2020, 07:02:54 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong)

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

No sh*t, 'Sherlock'..

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.



I thought I'd check on Sweden's ( and other nations) mortality rates and noted the UK is spiking .. (( 


https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA~USA~GBR~KOR~CAN~DEU~SWE
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: shakespear on June 03, 2020, 01:02:54 PM
I only personally know one individual that has Covid-19.  Actually she was my very first "date" (9th grade winter Snow Princess back in 1968.  We graduated from high school together and have kept in touch over the years.  She lives in Philadelphia now, got her PHD in Nursing in March and was struck down with the virus in mid-May.  She 66 but has kept herself if very good shape for her age - active in ballet and yoga exercise.  She didn't have any respiratory problems but was hit with debilitating pain and overall tiredness.  She's not quite back to normal now but much better than she was.  Still tires easily.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 04, 2020, 08:44:19 AM
[This was fake news]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 04, 2020, 11:36:04 AM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong)

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

No sh*t, 'Sherlock'..

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.



I thought I'd check on Sweden's ( and other nations) mortality rates and noted the UK is spiking .. (( 


https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA~USA~GBR~KOR~CAN~DEU~SWE

Rebuttal to the dishonest incorrigible TROLL:

https://www.justfacts.com/news_covid-19_anxiety_lockdowns_life_destroyed_saved
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 04, 2020, 12:33:12 PM

Rebuttal to the dishonest incorrigible TROLL:

https://www.justfacts.com/news_covid-19_anxiety_lockdowns_life_destroyed_saved

I'm 'sorry'... this a 'rebuttal' ? ..

OF COURSE people may be depressed, lacking in sleep, finding it hard financially ...but if they are in a nation WITH a clue ..chances are they (and their loved ones) are still alive.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 04, 2020, 12:45:27 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong)

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

No sh*t, 'Sherlock'..

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


I thought I'd check on Sweden's ( and other nations) mortality rates and noted the UK is spiking .. (( 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA~USA~GBR~KOR~CAN~DEU~SWE

ms you are really something of a 'neggy viber'. Every nation and by default, leader has made mistakes. The rest of us are after all human.

The world on line org does not show Sweden. But to focus or in your case to be stuck on a rolling 7 day average is misleading. It does not take into consideration variables such as first appearance of the virus, ICU capacity and medical infrastructure as well as the nature of the population. By this I mean does the nation favour a communal society or is it individualistic.

For the good order I bolded the most important part of the interview and reduced some of your extra spacing.

While the deaths are enormous losses for society and individuals from a statistic standpoint new infections are the best measurement for containment and a resumption of some degree of normality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 04, 2020, 01:32:29 PM
ms you are really something of a 'neggy viber'. Every nation and by default, leader has made mistakes. The rest of us are after all human.

Not at all, AvHdB

I ( sort of ) have seen how IT, FR, CY, RU, TR, TH, GE, IRL and the UK have handled this, through direct experience , my Wife's videochats and I was in TR and GE when italy was kicking off.

Friends in IT, CY, IRL and FR was locked down much earlier .. 

Italy's issues were much more confined to the industrial north ..other parts no so much effected.

The UK were VERY slow to react and it is now clear that the govt were going to try the 'herd immunity' experiment and suddenly did a volte face .. IF you doubt that, I refer you to BoJo's chat with the IT PM in March ..

As time goes past, it's becoming clear how Taiwan locked down and stopped R o China contact ...Manny has ( rightly ) pointed out they've managed to protect their economy, better, too


The world on line org does not show Sweden. But to focus or in your case to be stuck on a rolling 7 day average is misleading. It does not take into consideration variables such as first appearance of the virus, ICU capacity and medical infrastructure as well as the nature of the population. By this I mean does the nation favour a communal society or is it individualistic.

Hmm, the UK and Sweden are about the same place on the curve..

For the good order I bolded the most important part of the interview and reduced some of your extra spacing.

FAR more space is taken up by those posting daft about this outbreak... The UK had run a trial dummy run in 2016 and ( clearly ) learnt nothing and the govt covered up the findings of the  ((

While the deaths are enormous losses for society and individuals from a statistic standpoint new infections are the best measurement for containment and a resumption of some degree of normality.

AvHdB, new infections are not as accurate a measure as recorded deaths - given many folks have had it and didn't know or were never tested ... the UK has never posted recoveries

Looking at today's rolling everage the UK and Sweden are vying for 'first place' ((

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA

The UK is VERY close to an R number of one and a hospital close to me was swamped just before the Bank Holiday weekend with new cases and is was closed to new admissions .. People in the UK are no longer taking the threat seriously enough

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 04, 2020, 01:41:44 PM
Actually a rolling 7 day average is a good way to look at many time series of numbers. The period evens out irregularities such as weekend effects and helps to see trends.
A moving average does not alter start dates or any historical data, its just a way to better show trends than daily figures.

The Swedish case is made more complicated by the Swedish constitution which makes it very hard for the government to impose a lockdown and to manage what people can or can't do on a daily basis. That's a large part of why rather than imposing a lockdown and closing businesses down the government made suggestions.

Ultimately the success or failure of a program will come down to its cost. We may not like to think of it but the value of a life can be estimated and calculated. That's been done as part of public planning for decades. Its the only way to decide how much to spend on, for example, motorway/interstate/autobahn safety such as central reservations and speed limits.

So, the Swedes know the economic value of a life at any given age. As long as the cost to the economy of the inevitable deaths is less than the cost of a different action then what they chose works. I am sure that, on that basis the Swedes are going to be well ahead. Same to in Britain based on figures I saw a week or so ago.

There's more than one way to reach most solutions. Sadly, the optimal solution, in this context, just as most other public planning cases, is not the least possible number of dead people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 04, 2020, 02:34:54 PM
Oh, Moby 'misunderstood' what the guy said.
In simpler words, he said that if he knew then what he knows now then some things might have been done differently. That's pretty normal. We learn, we adapt we grow.

He also said that given what he knows now, he'd not change the current strategy.

So, no, no admissions of failure. A simple, honest, adult acknowledgement that he and his team do not know everything.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 04, 2020, 02:54:52 PM
Oh, Moby 'misunderstood' what the guy said.
In simpler words, he said that if he knew then what he knows now then some things might have been done differently. That's pretty normal. We learn, we adapt we grow.

He also said that given what he knows now, he'd not change the current strategy.

So, no, no admissions of failure. A simple, honest, adult acknowledgement that he and his team do not know everything.

Andrewfi,  You'll forgive most english speakers if we interpret "If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,"

The question is what the *beep* does that mean? - given most of the RoW ( including immediate neigbours Norway, Denmark and Finland ) didn't have the up to TEN times more deaths Sweden has had ..

Naturally, the guy isn't going to admit he's F*CKED up ...as he'll have a class legal action which all this comes out .
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 04, 2020, 02:59:27 PM
Further...since April 19th, the UK and Sweden have been 'competing' for the dubious honour of 'top spot' in the chart of shame.

PLEASE can someone tell me what 'benefit' this has brought the UK or Sweden .. mention 'herd immunity' and you're having a laugh .. given c.7% of folks have antibodies present in the UK and Sweden and we simply don't know if a mutated form of the virus would offer protection.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 04, 2020, 08:25:52 PM
There is a huge difference in how a country fares based on whether the population will follow rules, cultural norms, and living conditions. It is hard to compare one country to another based on just deaths and what they did. The infection rate varied greatly depending on these thing in the USA when everything else was the same. We have huge sections with zero infections and we have the parts of New York. All the same country, all with the same health care system. What will work in one country will not work in another. What has been learned here is do not treat the whole country the same. It will cause someone to be locked too soon, someone else too late, and someone else may not need it at all. In many places social distancing maybe be able to be done with out being locked down and other places it can not be. What is for sure, all of this has been very damaging to the global economy which the full effects is just beginning to be felt.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 05, 2020, 12:58:19 AM
Mystic, natural English is clearly not the same as the version spoken by the rest of us. Ask a native English speaker to help you.

Repeating your posts with bolding will not alter their meaning.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 05, 2020, 01:53:14 AM
Mystic, natural English is clearly not the same as the version spoken by the rest of us. Ask a native English speaker to help you.

Repeating your posts with bolding will not alter their meaning.

They aren't my words - they are the words of a non-native English pseaking Swede and your spinning them is failing.

Those who have lost loved ones, needlessly - down to some vanity 'experiment'  - would appear to understand quite well
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 05, 2020, 04:31:17 AM
Oh, Moby 'misunderstood' what the guy said.

I once had the opinion that Moby was disingenuous enough to manipulate sound bites, to back up his bigoted views. These days I think he's just not very bright and he actually really struggles to understand the message, wrapped up in the short words he reads and hears.

Time after time we read something very simple, maybe only a sentence or 2, yet only Mystic manages to take away a very different message. Subconsciously we all probably want to find something in the text to backup our views, especially during a debate but only a simpleton would arrive blinkered and leave blind. Life must be tough for him and arguing with everybody about everything most get tiring, even for the most unstable of folks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 05, 2020, 04:50:01 AM
Rosco,

Seeing you think I cannot 'understand English' .. Let's revert to 'pretty pictures'

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)

The UK STILL #1 for rolling seven death rate... Sweden STILL number 2


The UK outstripping ALL 27 EU countries 'combined' ..

Do you think being 'noisy' alters fact ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 05, 2020, 04:50:47 AM
Rosco, I am not so sure. I can see that he is no genius but there's evidence that he is of at least average intelligence. His ability to manipulate people and convince them is evidence of one who is not entirely stupid.

My intuition is that he is bright enough to manage to live as he does, doing what he does. He's a very lazy person who thinks that the world owes him a living. I bet he's very jealous of those who do better than him in life.

I think that he is a permanently angry person, although he won't show it all the time. I bet his tempers when he loses control are a sight to behold - as seem to have happened in Georgia.

His purposeful misreading is part of his pattern, along with his habit of posting links to materials that do not support points for which the linked material is evidence. He assumes that we are as lazy as he is.

However, it is clear that his ability to understand ideas is rather limited, but I doubt that the words we are discussing here fall outside of his cognitive range.

So, to that extent I agree with you - his ability to understand does have limits but those limits are not as closely constrained as you suggest.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 05, 2020, 10:29:20 AM
Oh, Moby 'misunderstood' what the guy said.

I once had the opinion that Moby was disingenuous enough to manipulate sound bites, to back up his bigoted views. These days I think he's just not very bright and he actually really struggles to understand the message, wrapped up in the short words he reads and hears.

Time after time we read something very simple, maybe only a sentence or 2, yet only Mystic manages to take away a very different message. Subconsciously we all probably want to find something in the text to backup our views, especially during a debate but only a simpleton would arrive blinkered and leave blind. Life must be tough for him and arguing with everybody about everything most get tiring, even for the most unstable of folks.

I suspect he fell off of a roof onto his head trying to install a satellite, on top of this he’s amoral, cannot or will not read and comprehend anything posted and he’s a chronic liar.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on June 05, 2020, 11:03:24 AM
Look on the bright side!

Christmas is going to be coming early soon when the stores all open 70/80% discounts every where..

Vultures will be finishing lots of places off..

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/coronavirus-laura-ashley-store-closures-staff-jobs-lost-a9418231.html
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/victorias-secret-goes-administration-uk-113734992.html

But what is left is going to be at rock bottom prices, we got loads of discounted stuff online in the last few months.. looking forward to more sales  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 05, 2020, 12:05:39 PM
Rosco, Confederate, look at what he's up to now. Lying about 'seeing action' with the UN Blue Berets.

Now we are learning that it is a case of stolen valor. That does not happen by accident. That's a dishonorable and dishonest choice.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 05, 2020, 01:15:20 PM


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/one-three-think-government-has-done-bad-job-managing-coronavirus/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/one-three-think-government-has-done-bad-job-managing-coronavirus/)

"More than half of respondents to a survey called for an urgent public inquiry into official response to pandemic in advance of second wave..

Just one in three think government has done a good job managing coronavirus pandemic"


'Dishonest Moby' quoting a lefty newspaper .. :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 06, 2020, 12:20:48 AM
Here is a roundup of info: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/#latest
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on June 06, 2020, 01:14:21 AM
Rosco, Confederate, look at what he's up to now. Lying about 'seeing action' with the UN Blue Berets.

Now we are learning that it is a case of stolen valor. That does not happen by accident. That's a dishonorable and dishonest choice.

Boy I missed that, where has he made such a claim??
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 06, 2020, 02:03:38 AM
Rosco,

Seeing you think I cannot 'understand English' .. Let's revert to 'pretty pictures'

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)

The UK STILL #1 for rolling seven death rate... Sweden STILL number 2


The UK outstripping ALL 27 EU countries 'combined' ..

Do you think being 'noisy' alters fact ?

Yes or no Moby. Do you think the straight death rate comparison between countries of different sizes, surroundings, density, cultures and demographics, are an equal and fair test to prove who got it more right?

I say no because whilst it gives us a raw indication to measure morbidity, it doesn't take into account all the variables on a macroscopic scale. I do understand why you're using it to backup your anti government claims and keep the shit show rolling though, but thats a very simplistic way of looking at it.

I still believe that corona attributed deaths in each country are counted and collected differently. There's no way these numbers represent whats actually going on around the world. If you think the UK has handled it worse than Pakistan then there's little point in having this discussion at all.

FYI - A friend of mine lost his father last week, he'd been fighting cancer for years and was in the final stages. His death certificate had Covid on it. The family needless to say aren't happy. What does that make you think, we all know he never died from Covid?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 06, 2020, 02:24:22 AM

Yes or no Moby. Do you think the straight death rate comparison between countries of different sizes, surroundings, density, cultures and demographics, are an equal and fair test to prove who got it more right?

Qualified YES .. Depends on the acuracy of data provided and we KNOW the UK only shows those dying with a positive test in hospital .. those dying in nursing homes or at home 'only' appear' in the natl stats figures which would make the UK's numbers WORSE.


FYI - A friend of mine lost his father last week, he'd been fighting cancer for years and was in the final stages. His death certificate had Covid on it. The family needless to say aren't happy. What does that make you think, we all know he never died from Covid?

From the circumstances you describe, it would seem wrong ...Are you suggesting there's a deliberate policy to OVER-Report ?

I'm not sure of the official way to dispute cause of death in Scotland, but 'down here' one can ...

The irony is I also had a mate lose his wife to the big C and it is clear that is what she suffered from, but I'm not going to ask what they wrote on any death cert.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 06, 2020, 07:17:55 AM

I say no because whilst it gives us a raw indication to measure morbidity, it doesn't take into account all the variables on a macroscopic scale. I do understand why you're using it to backup your anti government claims and keep the shit show rolling though, but thats a very simplistic way of looking at it.

I still believe that corona attributed deaths in each country are counted and collected differently. There's no way these numbers represent whats actually going on around the world. If you think the UK has handled it worse than Pakistan then there's little point in having this discussion at all.

ms one thing I am certain of, you missed your calling. You would have made a good politician. Devoid of humanity, the ability to manipulate facts, ignore reality and with a Teflon ego. If you claimed that you tutored H. Clinton, I would not doubt that.

In any event as I have noted repeatedly the rolling 7 day death count is of limited use as a statistic, if you are going to use it to compare nations. Rosco's also sees the limited value. Texan noted as well other issues with this statistic. Yes Andrew has a valid point with regards to A nation using it to see how THEY are doing. There are too many variables between nations and cultures for it to have any value except to those with a particular agenda. Such as ms so there is no doubt.

Medical regimes are improving world wide, the survival percentage for those who are infected is improving. It has moved from the mid 20 to approximately 14% worldwide today. Some nations and in the case of The United States some States are incentized to note higher death counts from Covid. Others for domestic political reasons are under reporting deaths. While also far from perfect the number of new infections is a better metric to consider in my opinion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 09, 2020, 03:13:37 AM
))

AvHdB, you can thank Manny, for protecting you, AGAIN ..

'My' stat shows hich nation isn't doing to well, NOW

'Trampu' told the sheele that China is responsible..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/09/conspiracies-covid-19-lab-false-pandemic (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/09/conspiracies-covid-19-lab-false-pandemic)

Ignore the conspiracies: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab


 Our report firmly concludes that Covid-19 originated in bats, in a hotspot of viral evolution along the border of Yunnan province in China, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 09, 2020, 12:26:28 PM
Quote
"We are naked because we are left with nothing,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-chefs-naked-lockdown-protest-113251258.html

We need to see more of this in this country.   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 09, 2020, 01:07:31 PM
Quote
"We are naked because we are left with nothing,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-chefs-naked-lockdown-protest-113251258.html

We need to see more of this in this country.   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:

I'm not sure I'd want to see a naked average American. Youre generally a tad more rotund than that lot from Russia.  :hidechair:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 10, 2020, 03:19:38 AM

Yes or no Moby. Do you think the straight death rate comparison between countries of different sizes, surroundings, density, cultures and demographics, are an equal and fair test to prove who got it more right?

Qualified YES ..

Thanks for your honesty. This discussion with you is over, seeing that you're unwilling to compare apples with apples. Anything else will result in me wasting honest time, debating with someone looking to argue.

I'll give you an F1 analogy, to help you understand.

"Bottas is a much better/faster F1 driver than George Russel, because Bottas scored more points last season." It's a worthy debate saying who we think is the better driver but knowing that Bottas had the fastest car on the grid and Russel the slowest, using only points scored, as a measurement to back up any claims, would be utterly ridiculous.

Let's hope that analogy helps you understand better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 10, 2020, 06:10:08 AM
Rosco,



'My' stat shows the present death rate over 7 days... it is only as unreliable as the nations supplying the data

Your 'analogy' re Bottas v Russell was a deliberate case of apples and oranges ..   Comparing the UK, Canada, etc., is just 'not good' for the UK govt.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 10, 2020, 06:17:17 AM
))

AvHdB, you can thank Manny, for protecting you, AGAIN ..

'My' stat shows hich nation isn't doing to well, NOW

'Trampu' told the sheele that China is responsible..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/09/conspiracies-covid-19-lab-false-pandemic (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/09/conspiracies-covid-19-lab-false-pandemic)

Ignore the conspiracies: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab


 Our report firmly concludes that Covid-19 originated in bats, in a hotspot of viral evolution along the border of Yunnan province in China, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam.



Curious ms do you understand the difference between statistics and conspiracy theories?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 10, 2020, 06:31:50 AM
Here is a roundup of info: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/#latest

The above is an interesting read. One of many passages stood out. In Italics from the above.

Sweden: Sweden had no lockdown, no mask requirement and no primary school closures, but mainly relied on the personal responsibility and cooperation of the population. This approach worked well and Sweden saw only a low mortality rate in the general population comparable to a strong seasonal flu wave.

Nevertheless, the overall mortality rate was significantly higher than in the neighboring Scandinavian countries or Germany and is comparable to that in England. The real reason for this, however, is that around three quarters of Swedish deaths occurred in nursing homes and nursing flats. The median age of Swedish deaths is probably the highest worldwide at 86.

The Swedish government has apologized for the insufficient protection of nursing patients and has announced an investigation. Many media tried to present this as an alleged “failure of the no-lockdown strategy”, although nursing homes need targeted protection and do not benefit from a general lockdown.

Moreover, even total mortality in Sweden has remained below the strong seasonal flu waves of the past thirty years. In addition, Sweden may now benefit from a very high natural immunity, especially considering the latest immunological studies on the actual range of antibody tests.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 10, 2020, 07:30:52 AM
AvHdB

I hope you don't mind me quoting what ( some) SWEDES think ..

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swedens-strategy-for-herd-immunity-has-failed-39270980.html (https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swedens-strategy-for-herd-immunity-has-failed-39270980.html)

Sweden's strategy for herd immunity 'has failed'

"Sweden's opposition MPs have said the country's Covid-19 herd immunity strategy has "failed miserably" and demanded the resignation of the chief epidemiologist.

In a blistering opinion article that analysts said marked the end of a political truce during the national crisis, the leader of the populist Sweden Democrats said the state had failed to protect vulnerable citizens.

"Anders Tegnell should therefore resign"

Sweden now TOPs 'my' 7 day rolling data death rate of selected nations  ..

The UK is no.2

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 10, 2020, 08:50:08 AM

Is this the beginning of the second wave in the USA?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-goes-quiet-on-coronavirus-as-outbreak-spikes-again-across-the-us/ar-BB15hqXM?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 10, 2020, 09:17:30 AM

Is this the beginning of the second wave in the USA?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-goes-quiet-on-coronavirus-as-outbreak-spikes-again-across-the-us/ar-BB15hqXM?li=BBnb7Kz

I was going to post about this. I saw data a couple of days ago showing significant spikes in many states. Of course that data comes before the effect of a load of mongs wandering around built up areas in crowds spitting, shouting, breathing heavily and all busily infecting each other.

I really hope that we do not see a whole bunch of 'Madrids' like we did in Spain after the 8th March IWD parade. I bet there are sensible people looking anxiously at both the spikes that precede those events and the new numbers coming in starting this weekend.

The other bothersome info is the states that have reopened while posting test results in excess of 10% infections to tests. Some are much, much higher which suggests that the infection is not under control.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 10, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734)

Coronavirus was brought into the UK on at least 1,300 separate occasions, a major analysis of the genetics of the virus shows.


Conclusions from this study:

https://virological.org/t/preliminary-analysis-of-sars-cov-2-importation-establishment-of-uk-transmission-lineages/507 (https://virological.org/t/preliminary-analysis-of-sars-cov-2-importation-establishment-of-uk-transmission-lineages/507)

"suggest that China, where the pandemic started, had a negligible impact on cases in the UK.

Instead those initial cases came mostly from European countries.

The researchers analysed the genetic code of viral samples taken from more than 20,000 people infected with coronavirus in the UK."

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 10, 2020, 12:54:38 PM
Quote
"We are naked because we are left with nothing,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-chefs-naked-lockdown-protest-113251258.html

We need to see more of this in this country.   :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:

Hilarious!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 11, 2020, 04:24:27 AM
From the UK Daily Telegraph,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/coronavirus-fiasco-serving-wake-up-call-many-betrayed-swedes/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/09/coronavirus-fiasco-serving-wake-up-call-many-betrayed-swedes/)

Where are those espousing 'Sweden's way', now ?

The article is written BY a Swede ..

The coronavirus fiasco is serving as a wake-up call for many betrayed Swedes
Sweden's cosy consensus behind Anders Tegnell's approach to Covid-19 is breaking down, as the cost of his relaxed strategy becomes clear.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 11, 2020, 08:11:48 AM

Here some are already calling it a second wave. The big question is how bad it will get. There are those who feel it might be worse than the first wave. There are a number of state governors are saying they do not plan a second lock down if we have a second wave.

Tsunami or ripple? Forecasting the 2nd wave of coronavirus

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/tsunami-or-ripple-forecasting-the-2nd-wave-of-coronavirus/ar-BB15kM5U?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

Russia approves drug to treat the virus,
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-rolls-out-first-approved-covid-19-drug-as-infections-pass-500-000/ar-BB15kUK5?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

It was also noted that Russia is way under counting deaths from the virus by counting any body with a per existing condition as the death was caused by the condition rather the covid-19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 11, 2020, 09:41:53 AM
Texan77, as long as they are consistent in the manner in which cause of death is allocated then they are not 'undercounting'. One can argue about whether one counts died with Covid-19 or died of Covid-19 but as long as the counting is consistent then that's good enough. The death certificates are available for detailed analysis in the future enabling good research to be done.

As you know, in the USA there is a problem with consistency and those who argue that Covid-19 deaths are being over counted because death certificates count a Covid-19 death as being anyone who died whilst carrying the infection as being due to the virus. Inconsistency makes subsequent analysis harder.

What seems to be happening is an effort by opinion leaders to mislead Americans who are not good with numbers that the USA has not been as ineffective as it actually was by trying to besmirch the efforts of other countries.

What those who can count understand is the of or with issue and consistency. What such people also understand is overall consistency, that is the numbers provided are not only consistent within themselves but in the context of other data such as infection rates, positive to negative test ratios, and asymptomatic/presymptomatic as compared to symptomatic cases - that latter is something that shows up in Russia due to the huge amount of testing being carried out.

Your government at national, state and local level has a real need to draw positive comparisons between what happened in the USA compared to anywhere else on Earth. Truth, is, of course, the first victim in such a situation!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 11, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
While it seems both new infections and deaths are decreasing, the future is not certain. What I see is California and Florida do not seem to able to reduce the number of new infections. Another interesting state is Arizona one day reporting under 500 new cases and the next day well over 1,000. In Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York there is a clear downward trend.

Regarding the second wave or bump that was noted. Two states (Michigan & Florida) changed the way the numbers were being reported. This is partially what Andrew speaks to.

Sadly though, there is worldwide still an increasing rate of infection. :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 11, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
What's happening, apart from the post riot uptick in some areas is that the plague is continuing its progress in areas that had not previously peaked.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 13, 2020, 07:44:13 AM
Ukraine's president to self-isolate after First Lady tests positive for COVID-19

The Ukrainian leader has tested negative for the coronavirus.


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has decided to self-isolate after First Lady Olena Zelenska tested positive for the COVID-19 coronavirus. "Volodymyr Zelensky's health condition allows him to continue performing official duties. The head of state has tested for the coronavirus. His results are negative," the press service of the Office of the President said.

A special protocol was introduced for the president's work in line with the current legislation and epidemiological requirements. Every day, Zelensky will undergo enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests along with physical health checks. He will limit physical communication and switch to online meetings.

Face-to-face meetings suggesting communication with the president in person are not to be held in the coming days. His participation in mass events and working trips outside Kiev have been cancelled. Only bodyguards and personal assistants will be able to communicate with the president in person. "Exceptions to this protocol are possible only in the event of an emergency, which will require an immediate response from the head of state in accordance with his constitutional powers," the press service said. As UNIAN reported earlier, First Lady Olena Zelenska tested positive for the coronavirus. She feels well and has no COVID-19 symptoms.

From UNIAN: https://www.unian.info
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 13, 2020, 01:47:14 PM
Quote
“That’s the incredible thing about viruses,” Letko said. “They’re called Darwinian machines, and these small changes can amplify quite dramatically. These small gains can be just enough to allow a virus to outcompete another virus that doesn’t have these things.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mutation-allows-coronavirus-infect-more-141030397.html

This is all about survival of the fittest.  And it is not those at the top of the food chain.!   :biggrin: :bow:

Quote
"I opened it and said 'holy (expletive)!' " the patient, Michael Flor, who received the $1,122,501.04 bill

https://www.insider.com/man-hospitalized-with-covid-19-for-11-million-bill-2020-6

I can confirm that a two month stay at an ICU with a ventilator does come out to around 1 million bucks.  :money: :snivel: :o ??? :sick0012: :LIMP: :HOSPITAL: :euro-smile:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 13, 2020, 06:12:43 PM
I feel this is important about the virus. One of the mutants of the virus had replaced the original form in both the USA and Europe in most cases. The new form attaches to cells easier making it easier to catch. The article state that this virus will do what is has to survive for sometime to come. If there is a vaccine it will change until we need to make a new vaccine. If we social distant it will find ways around that. Steveboy virus not going away any time soon.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/mutation-could-make-coronavirus-more-infectious-study-suggests/ar-BB15pHdc?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 14, 2020, 11:59:09 PM
Tex,

There are THOUSANDS of mutations of said virus ...  last time I checked, over 1,300 variants had been identified as entering the UK, mainly from, mainland Europe, rather than China
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 15, 2020, 12:12:14 AM
I am responding, here, to Manny suggesting opening of shops in England and N.Ireland isa 'good' idea'...

Whilst deaths in hospitals ARE falling, we are seeing a RISE in infections... hardly a surprise given the mass ignoring of govt advice (

Does Manny think it is 'political' that many nations  still 'close the doors' to UK citizens travelling, because of our much higher rates?

Is the govt is pandering to Daily Mail and Sun readers by introducing a mandatory quarantine, for those coming from overseas,  just as others dispense with  them ...?

Beijing is seeing renewed spikes in infections and VVP isn't surprised 'Russia is doing so well ( v.the US ) ' when 'governours fail to listen to their leaders'...   VVP 'persuaded' the Mayor of Moscow to ('VERY) prematurely lift the quarantine regime in time for his tilt at Tsardom, which he tells his people is 'v.popular ..'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 15, 2020, 12:32:19 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/who-cautions-against-further-lifting-lockdown-england (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/who-cautions-against-further-lifting-lockdown-england)

Coronavirus: WHO cautions against further lifting of lockdown in England

"Exclusive: senior official says contact tracing should be more effective before measures eased".

THIS poster would love to go back to 'normality' , but thinks while we're getting over 1500 new cases a day, it's somewhat early ..

'We' still have the second worst 7-day rolling eve for death rates from said virus [ developed nations whose figures are ' sort of trustworthy' ]'( misleadingly based on the UK govt excluding home/ care homes deaths) ..Sweden ..the 'paragon of herd immunity'... is still #1

The US may overtake the UK, soon, though..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 15, 2020, 06:32:13 AM
This morning news is saying that a second wave of shut downs may happen in local areas and it may be worse than the first wave  as everyone is taped out. China is warning of a seconds wave. They have had three hot spot where they had to shut down part of the country in the last two months. Beijing is partially shut down now. This is a real set back for China as they have tried extra hard to keep the virus out of Beijing.  Local Houston restaurant closes doors for good.  Taped out owner and five of his employees are got Covid-19 using the distancing methods now in place to prevent the spread of the disease. Meat packing plants still having problems. The worse out break in Texas is around a meat packing plant.

Minority neighborhoods are not helping as much with contract tracing as they did before. The tracers are only getting 3 or 4 contacts per patients where they used to get twenty or more contacts. The belief is the worse of the disease is over and do not take it as seriously. One news article said that if people do not start taking covid-19 seriously the second wave might get worse than the first. 

GOOD MORNING everyone from Texas.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 15, 2020, 07:09:53 AM
An interesting synopsis. There indeed does seem to be something of a virus fatigue.

Looking at the numbers from Texas, it seems that it was a small dip approximately 10 days ago Other states that had big numbers such as CT, NY, NJ and MA all are seeing lower or declining new cases. States that never had big numbers such as The Dakota's, KY and another 15 or so continue to report low new infections.

Arizona is a standout reporting it seems a 200% increase, some reports even a higher percentage. The reason though seems unclear, with conflicting reports. California is another standout attempting to claim the silver medal. While a dubious honor both NY & CA are on the coastline with the flyovers faring far better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 15, 2020, 09:12:24 AM
Because if curtailing of vaccine programs in many third world countries because of Covid-19, many other often worse disease are making a comeback.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/slowing-the-coronavirus-is-speeding-the-spread-of-other-diseases/ar-BB15t8xc?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 15, 2020, 12:51:39 PM
I am responding, here, to Manny suggesting opening of shops in England and N.Ireland isa 'good' idea'...

More lies!  :pointlaugh:

Please quote me where I said this. I'll wait......

I'm not bothered at all if or when shops open or not. I'm actually quite dismayed at today's traffic now that some have.

Let me remind you what I did say, and this is purely from a personal and selfish perspective:

I’ll be sorry to see it go. I’m pretty happy with some free Boris cash, the business is busy (even with masks and hand gel now), I’m loving the nice and quiet roads and no pollution. I might be in a minority, but there’s been absolutely no downside for us. We were drinking Moët Chandon this evening. Golden days.  :nod:

For me, I'd be quite happy with another six months so-called lockdown. Simply because it doesn't affect me. We sell mostly online. People sat at home with free money and no pubs, shops or restaurants to spend it in............. shop online.  :rouble-smile:

I wish hairdressers would open though. I'm starting to look like Kenny Rogers and morning hair arrangement has to be arranged much like Trump must have to do. I haven't found an underground one yet. Wifey found an underground nail girl via the Russian network though, and women can grow their hair so no downside there either.

Meanwhile, Boris insisted on dumping tens of thousands of pounds in our accounts. Gratis. Double bubble. No pain here Moby lad. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 15, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
From the link above posted by Manny.

Quote

“In fact, the country with the highest number of deaths per head is Belgium (843 per million). Yet Belgium introduced one of the tightest and most severe shutdowns on the planet. Sweden, without a shutdown at all, has suffered 472 deaths per million.”

1/ My thanks to Markje, for pointing out Belgium's governments volte face..  the PM suffered a mass backing turning when she arrived to visit a hospital.

2/ Sweden's 'experiment'  is STILL killing more of it's citizens than any other developed country ...  ( not:  I exclude Brazil and Belarus from being 'developed' and ABSOLUTELY do not trust their stats )

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~RUS~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~RUS~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)

If the current trends keep up, the UK will take over #2 from the UK



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 15, 2020, 01:25:54 PM

This is honestly one of the most stupid things I've seen written here, even for Moby. If he believes that, then he's answered my question regarding trolling v intelligence.  :'(



https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/06/10/government-approval-continues-fall-starmer-increas (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/06/10/government-approval-continues-fall-starmer-increas)

The government’s approval rating has continued to fall this week, with just 32% now saying they approve of the government’s performance (down three points from the week before), compared to 49% who say they disapprove (up five). This is the fifth week in a row the government’s approval rating has fallen, with net approval dropping around seven points a week on average.



Now, tell us when the Cummings story broke, bearing in mind this poll is nearly a week old, and 'tell me' I was 'wrong' re my prediction ....  It ABSOLUTELY correlates..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 15, 2020, 11:19:06 PM
In Texas we have two teams that play football. Each team has a roster of 44 players. Out of the 88 players 7 were confirmed to have covid-19. The question is, can the players stay healthy enough to play the season. This is a contact sport and there is not such thing of playing football USA style and be social distant.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 16, 2020, 12:12:23 AM
If the current trends keep up, the UK will take over #2 from the UK

Please, I suspect the forum will be englightened by your explaining this to us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 16, 2020, 12:34:22 AM
In Texas we have two teams that play football. Each team has a roster of 44 players. Out of the 88 players 7 were confirmed to have covid-19. The question is, can the players stay healthy enough to play the season. This is a contact sport and there is not such thing of playing football USA style and be social distant.

Quote
New Zealand's response to the coronavirus pandemic has resulted in only 22 deaths, and no active cases in three weeks - meaning the social distancing measures enforced in Europe's returning football leagues were not needed in Dunedin, in New Zealand's far south.
The fans made noise throughout the game - no need for piped-in crowd noise here - tries were celebrated with embraces and there were handshakes before and after the game.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53033938

Rugby is a contact sport like American football.  Everything is returning back to normal.   (:)   You all can be the "sacrificial lamb".   :chuckle: :P :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 12:38:10 AM
If the current trends keep up, the UK will take over #2 from the UK

Quote from: AvHdB
Please, I suspect the forum will be englightened by your explaining this to us.

 :chuckle: I edited your typo ..

I can't edit typos... If the current trends keep up, the US will take over #2 from the UK.... I figured most would 'get' what I meant seeing the 7 day ave death rate nation closest to the UK was .... the US ..( 2.52 v 2.43)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA~RUS (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA~RUS)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 12:51:45 AM
I am responding, here, to Manny suggesting opening of shops in England and N.Ireland is a 'good' idea'...


More lies!  :pointlaugh:

Please quote me where I said this. I'll wait......

You know I can't, now .. (and why )

[Trolling and lies removed]

I'm not bothered at all if or when shops open or not. I'm actually quite dismayed at today's traffic now that some have.

Let me remind you what I did say, and this is purely from a personal and selfish perspective:

I'll be sorry to see it go....

Meanwhile, Boris insisted on dumping tens of thousands of pounds in our accounts. Gratis. Double bubble. No pain here Moby lad. :thumbsup:

'Ri-ight' ( after your telling us about your personal status ) so do you think Boris is re-opening  shops, too early ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on June 16, 2020, 02:43:38 AM
Though the virus is SUPPOSED to be going down our block which has 4 big blocks seems to have some kind of epidemic ambulances here every few hours, out get the doctors all in white protective outfits, gloves and full face protection, in our block twice yesterday, next door block also yesterday a little like a Si fi movie watching them get out of the ambulance Im staying away from them..their suits are already infested..

But it could get worse any day ! https://www.rt.com/news/491829-five-more-asteroid-flybys-earth/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 16, 2020, 04:48:14 AM
My opinion on Sweden's handling of the virus has changed many times and right now, I'm pretty much 'virused' out when it comes to the MMS and their 'opin-news'. They do shape our views and it's useful to research a number of sources to verify the actual lie of the land, otherwise we start to repeat what they tell us. What I did find interesting was the deaths by age data in Sweden and it generally counters what Moby is telling us, or at least gives context to a rather hysterical, misleading headline.


2/ Sweden's 'experiment'  is STILL killing more of it's citizens than any other developed country ...

As we know, Sweden did very little in terms of a lock down and they didn't wreck their economy or dismantle their social structure.

- There are 10.23 million people in Sweden and only 4891 people have died of covid-19. That means, with Sweden doing very little during Covid-19, only 0.0478% of their population died.

- From that 0.0478% its quite likely that most of them had underlying health problems and it's reasonable to assume that most bad colds/infection/flu would have written them off anyway.

- In terms of those who died, 89% of them were between 70-100+ years old and 96% of them were between 60-100+ years old.

- Those under the age of 40 represented 0.4% of those who died and made up 0.006% of the total population.

- Click on the link below because this graph really is quite telling.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

I'm sure we can all agree that when you start looking at the true data quoted above, Covid-19 begins to fade into other daily risk factors such as car accidents, bee stings and falling in the shower. The biggest concern about this virus is that we don't know enough about it and it appears to be very contagious. As a side, living on my street there are 2 doctors of different backgrounds and neither are particularly convinced about the Covid panic and reaction.

Sweden haven't tanked their economy, jobs are safe, social norms are generally the same and future generations won't be paying off huge sums of debt for the rest of their lives. I'm sure the modus operandi in Sweden will change to make their society safer. Other countries are yet to find out the true cost of lock downs, other than simply quoting deaths directly attributed to covid.
 
No country in the world with diverse communities, large elderly demographics and extremely busy transport links to all over the world, has been able to handle a relatively unknown, quickly spreading virus particularly well. It vexes me when self appointed experts criticise and chirp away in the background continuously without coming up with solutions and assume they know better. Moby has a hugely negative view point regarding Swedens handling of the pandemic and I do wonder if he's been sucked in by the hysterical headlines? Perhaps he's simply just not well informed enough but I'm hoping this post will broaden his horizon.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 16, 2020, 04:57:05 AM

This is honestly one of the most stupid things I've seen written here, even for Moby. If he believes that, then he's answered my question regarding trolling v intelligence.  :'(



https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/06/10/government-approval-continues-fall-starmer-increas (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/06/10/government-approval-continues-fall-starmer-increas)

The government’s approval rating has continued to fall this week, with just 32% now saying they approve of the government’s performance (down three points from the week before), compared to 49% who say they disapprove (up five). This is the fifth week in a row the government’s approval rating has fallen, with net approval dropping around seven points a week on average.



Now, tell us when the Cummings story broke, bearing in mind this poll is nearly a week old, and 'tell me' I was 'wrong' re my prediction ....  It ABSOLUTELY correlates..

Moby, I don't disagree that the governments approval rating has dropped during this pandemic but I do believe this is directly attributed to a number of variables including the behaviour of our media, party politics and of course mistakes by those who should know better. I doubt any government would have handled the situation in the UK well, given what they faced. The bad news for you lot is that the Tory majority is here for years to come, Brexit will happen and the lefts attempt of a soft coup is as transparent as your trolling.

What I don't accept is your rather silly suggestion that Dominic Cummings actions, have given carte blanche to groups of protestors to break social distancing rules and hit the streets en masse. Some silly folks might claim so but they've just announced what their true agenda is before they start! Our streets have tuned into a battle ground for the exact same reasons they have in the US, Australia etc. If you think DC had an effect on people around the world then its getting rather silly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 16, 2020, 05:00:58 AM
Actually, in fairness to Moby, he implied he had been out "interviewing" but when I challenged him, he claimed these exchanges were on Facebook IIRC.

Are you , honestly, trying to suggest many protestors - when I pointed out their STUPIDITY and selfishness didn't tell me, " if Cummings can do it" as an 'excuse' ...?
Out interviewing ‘protesters’ now?
Some of us see the daftness on FB / Twitter, etc. and even comment

Yes he did but then he swerves to suit so I won't give him that benefit of the doubt.

The problem Moby has, is that he's unable to be rational, impartial and willing to change his opinion based on true facts and data. He arrives at a discussion with an unmovable view point, usually shaped by his politics and during the debate, he's hard wired to vociferously defend those weak beliefs. In turn this makes him a rather bigoted person, unwilling to learn thus rendering any discussion pointless.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 05:09:06 AM


As we know, Sweden did very little in terms of a lock down and they didn't wreck their economy or dismantle their social structure.

INCORRECT ..

Sweden's economy is tied to exports and her citizens cannot even go to neighboring nations without good reason ..



https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f61-4728-a9aa-3fa1f232035a (https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f61-4728-a9aa-3fa1f232035a)


"A very Swedish sort of failure..A flawed policy on Covid-19 was driven by the country’s exceptionalism..the export-oriented economy has not been spared a sharp contraction....There have even been days, in recent weeks, when the death rate per head has been the highest in the world. "



- There are 10.23 million people in Sweden and only 4891 people have died of covid-19. That means, with Sweden doing very little during Covid-19, only 0.0478% of their population died.

- From that 0.0478% its quite likely that most of them had underlying health problems and it's reasonable to assume that most bad colds/infection/flu would have written them off anyway.

INCORRECT 2/

Sweden has had proportionately WAY more cases than her neighbours and the same proportion c.2-3 percent infected , died ..

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-the-nordics/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-the-nordics/)

As of June 15, Sweden recorded 4,874 deaths from COVID-19, compared to 597 in Denmark and 242 in Norway.

source:

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/coronavirus-swedes-not-welcome-as-neighbours-open-their-borders (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/coronavirus-swedes-not-welcome-as-neighbours-open-their-borders)

Now tell me, again, that 'Sweden's got it right', Rosco .... :'(

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 05:14:03 AM
Moby, I don't disagree that the governments approval rating has dropped during this pandemic but I do believe this is directly attributed to a number of variables including the behaviour of our media, party politics and of course mistakes by those who should know better. I doubt any government would have handled the situation in the UK well, given what they faced. The bad news for you lot is that the Tory majority is here for years to come, Brexit will happen and the lefts attempt of a soft coup is as transparent as your trolling.

What I don't accept is your rather silly suggestion that Dominic Cummings actions, have given carte blanche to groups of protestors to break social distancing rules and hit the streets en masse. Some silly folks might claim so but they've just announced what their true agenda is before they start! Our streets have tuned into a battle ground for the exact same reasons they have in the US, Australia etc. If you think DC had an effect on people around the world then its getting rather silly.

I'm 'sorry', Rosco,

but you're completely out of touch with reality, this time... AGAIN ( sighs) the govt's. approval rating started to fall, WHEN ?

THREE weeks before George Floyd and EXACTLY when Cumming's eye test evaluation trip broke ..

I'm well aware the govt has a majority at the minute .. but they'll continue to misread the public at large at BoJo's peril ...

'Spin away'..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 16, 2020, 05:19:05 AM
I am responding, here, to Manny suggesting opening of shops in England and N.Ireland is a 'good' idea'...


More lies!  :pointlaugh:

Please quote me where I said this. I'll wait......

You know I can't, now .. (and why )

Yes, because I didn't say it.

so do you think Boris is re-opening  shops, too early ?

Not really. They aren't all open, salons and hospitality aren't yet. The social distancing most have imposed is overkill but will no doubt be effective. The virus isn't killing healthy shoppers. Its killing the old, infirm, sick and institutionalised. And they don't spend too much time in Ikea or Tesco as a rule. This virus isn't nearly as virulent as we were first led to believe. The NHS was never overwhelmed. The Nightingale hospitals were never used. Deaths are falling now. A second spike looks unlikely (many think this is the second spike as it was around last year). Its going away.

There is also an underlying change in most peoples behaviour that hasn't been discussed much yet. Retail as we knew it will never recover. People aren't going to stand in queues outside in the rain, that'll get old really quick. The inevitable demise of retail has fast forwarded five years. I've no desire to go and stand in a queue in Debenhams or Primark for example. It's actually time for the small retailer to shine again. People are going back to the local butcher, baker and candlestick maker. As big firms go skint and close, rents will fall, units will be sub-divided and SME's will have access to better priced upgrade premises. Business adapts.

Boris's timing is about right IMO the way its being done. Social distancing will be down to 1m soon, salons and hospitality will open, everyone will forget about screens and visors and masks later this year.

Anyone can criticise the government in hindsight. They've handled it reasonably well and certainly better than Labour would have done. All the free money is QE in disguise. That'll help the economy bounce up again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 05:50:08 AM

Indeed, hindsight is already proving how the UK govt. ( like say, Belgium) were somewhat 'late' in changing course.

BoJo is acting just like you in ensuring dissenting voices can't be heard in public briefings and joe public aint 'buying it' ..

Of course, the virus hit the weakest and elderly the hardest, but it took folks away from us, who needlessly, were taken early and your v own actions, in taking advantage of the PPE supply issues, prove the govt' TOTALLY screwed up re the supply chain.

IF the govt. had introduced the lockdown, earlier - we'd not be looking anything like the true 60K deaths ( based on the number of deaths above the mean )

I know of a dentist who cannot open up as he cannot get the PPE kit, visors, etc.,for his workers, having donated his suppl to care homes, and the cost of polymer/ acrylic plastic, used to make screens at payment points has risen six-fold..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 16, 2020, 06:55:14 AM
The below quote is from the D. Cummings thread but in an effort not to move away from that topic I have copied the post of Roscoe and pasted it here. It is well written. I hope no offense.

My opinion on Sweden's handling of the virus has changed many times and right now, I'm pretty much 'virused' out when it comes to the MMS and their 'opin-news'. They do shape our views and it's useful to research a number of sources to verify the actual lie of the land, otherwise we start to repeat what they tell us. What I did find interesting was the deaths by age data in Sweden and it generally counters what Moby is telling us, or at least gives context to a rather hysterical, misleading headline.


2/ Sweden's 'experiment'  is STILL killing more of it's citizens than any other developed country ...

As we know, Sweden did very little in terms of a lock down and they didn't wreck their economy or dismantle their social structure.

- There are 10.23 million people in Sweden and only 4891 people have died of covid-19. That means, with Sweden doing very little during Covid-19, only 0.0478% of their population died.

- From that 0.0478% its quite likely that most of them had underlying health problems and it's reasonable to assume that most bad colds/infection/flu would have written them off anyway.

- In terms of those who died, 89% of them were between 70-100+ years old and 96% of them were between 60-100+ years old.

- Those under the age of 40 represented 0.4% of those who died and made up 0.006% of the total population.

- Click on the link below because this graph really is quite telling.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

I'm sure we can all agree that when you start looking at the true data quoted above, Covid-19 begins to fade into other daily risk factors such as car accidents, bee stings and falling in the shower. The biggest concern about this virus is that we don't know enough about it and it appears to be very contagious. As a side, living on my street there are 2 doctors of different backgrounds and neither are particularly convinced about the Covid panic and reaction.

Sweden haven't tanked their economy, jobs are safe, social norms are generally the same and future generations won't be paying off huge sums of debt for the rest of their lives. I'm sure the modus operandi in Sweden will change to make their society safer. Other countries are yet to find out the true cost of lock downs, other than simply quoting deaths directly attributed to covid.
 
No country in the world with diverse communities, large elderly demographics and extremely busy transport links to all over the world, has been able to handle a relatively unknown, quickly spreading virus particularly well. It vexes me when self appointed experts criticise and chirp away in the background continuously without coming up with solutions and assume they know better. Moby has a hugely negative view point regarding Swedens handling of the pandemic and I do wonder if he's been sucked in by the hysterical headlines? Perhaps he's simply just not well informed enough but I'm hoping this post will broaden his horizon.

Not with standing the twisting of statistics by ms (who would ever have thought) Sweden has followed a different course and the reality not withstanding the larger number of deaths amongst the elderly they seem to have a better national economy presently.

Largely because of globalization there economy is not immune to the inevitable decline, that will be world wide. The poster ms will ignore the well written words above and moan about the failure. But he is the RUA neggy viber, who knows everything better. What is a problem if one looks at the entire world the number of new infections is still increasing as a trend. Fortunately though the percentage of those who will succumb to the virus is decreasing.

The bigger question is how will the world function latter this year and in the years coming. Like with 9/11 in The States and by extension the world personal liberties were lost. I suspect the same in a different guise will occur in the post China virus landscape.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 16, 2020, 08:53:50 AM
The below quote is from the D. Cummings thread but in an effort not to move away from that topic I have copied the post of Roscoe and pasted it here. It is well written. I hope no offense. ........
......


Thanks Av and yes, it was a reply to MS on another non-related thread. Keeping MS in his own lane is extremely difficult as you can imagine but I should have chucked it in here.  :thumbsup:

Covid-19 is still a moving target and what we think now, could quite easily age quite poorly. That said, I don't think there is a shining example out there, of how to deal with the virus, unless we wish to be disingenuous and compare a busy multicultural hub with a relatively small, isolated & sparsely populated island in the middle of the ocean, with an ability to shut its borders quickly.

Globalisation with its intertwined economies and transport networks, inevitably mean that something as transmittable as Covid-19 is almost impossible to isolate quickly, particularly on our first run. If this is something of a future threat then I expect we'll adapt and survive through learning.

I think Sweden has been a great test case for us all and without different approaches, we wouldn't have the data to compare and learn from. Moving forward, I expect some kind of hybrid between that of Sweden and a full lockdown. If viral pandemics become a regular occurrence, global lock downs for months on end will finish us all. If it was a choice, I'd do what Sweden had done, bring in generally accepted social distancing & hygiene measures, whist shielding the most vulnerable.

I'm 39 and given that I'd have roughly a 0.006% chance of dying from covid-19, I'd acknowledge that the risks are acceptable, continue working with an adjusted modus operandi and change my social etiquette to improve my chances further. Those sort of percentages are actually better than dying from most diseases, animal attacks and terrorism.

Like Manny, most of us were cooped up at home getting free money whilst our economy crumbled. We might come through this better than when we went in but millions of people will become unemployed, unable to pay for their homes or food and both physical and mental health problems will be on the increase. Throw in divorce, drinking/drug abuse and suicides, and society won't really benefit from hiding in their homes for the rest of their days. That's why I care to debate with MS's more negative opinion, on how things really are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 08:58:37 AM
You might want to note my response to Rosco, with some unpleasant facts to rebuff BOTH his notions re death rates ( still TEN TIMES that of Norway and Finland ) and economy not being as badly effected ..

I even chose right of centre journals, lrs the 'lefty excuse' was raised ..

It is noted the mutual back-slapping for continually posting misleading bollox continues ..

In case you can't find the post:

https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28966.msg512825.html#msg512825
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 16, 2020, 08:59:49 AM
BoJo is acting just like you in ensuring dissenting voices can't be heard in public briefings and joe public aint 'buying it' ..

Translation: The Remoaners were hoping to capitalise on the virus and it hasn't worked.

your v own actions, in taking advantage of the PPE supply issues, prove the govt' TOTALLY screwed up re the supply chain.

Wrong, I am not supplying the government. Nor am I using the channels they use. They didn't move fast as government is by nature, sclerotic.

IF the govt. had introduced the lockdown, earlier - we'd not be looking anything like the true 60K deaths ( based on the number of deaths above the mean )

Speculation. Other studies say lockdown useless.

I know of a dentist who cannot open up as he cannot get the PPE kit, visors, etc.,for his workers,

Fibber! I'll sell him as many KN95 masks as he wants at happy money with next day delivery. Visors are dirt cheap on eBay.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 16, 2020, 09:04:44 AM
My opinion on Sweden's handling of the virus has changed many times and right now, I'm pretty much 'virused' out when it comes to the MMS and their 'opin-news'. They do shape our views and it's useful to research a number of sources to verify the actual lie of the land, otherwise we start to repeat what they tell us. What I did find interesting was the deaths by age data in Sweden and it generally counters what Moby is telling us, or at least gives context to a rather hysterical, misleading headline.


2/ Sweden's 'experiment'  is STILL killing more of it's citizens than any other developed country ...

As we know, Sweden did very little in terms of a lock down and they didn't wreck their economy or dismantle their social structure.

- There are 10.23 million people in Sweden and only 4891 people have died of covid-19. That means, with Sweden doing very little during Covid-19, only 0.0478% of their population died.

- From that 0.0478% its quite likely that most of them had underlying health problems and it's reasonable to assume that most bad colds/infection/flu would have written them off anyway.

- In terms of those who died, 89% of them were between 70-100+ years old and 96% of them were between 60-100+ years old.

- Those under the age of 40 represented 0.4% of those who died and made up 0.006% of the total population.

- Click on the link below because this graph really is quite telling.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

I'm sure we can all agree that when you start looking at the true data quoted above, Covid-19 begins to fade into other daily risk factors such as car accidents, bee stings and falling in the shower. The biggest concern about this virus is that we don't know enough about it and it appears to be very contagious. As a side, living on my street there are 2 doctors of different backgrounds and neither are particularly convinced about the Covid panic and reaction.

Sweden haven't tanked their economy, jobs are safe, social norms are generally the same and future generations won't be paying off huge sums of debt for the rest of their lives. I'm sure the modus operandi in Sweden will change to make their society safer. Other countries are yet to find out the true cost of lock downs, other than simply quoting deaths directly attributed to covid.
 
No country in the world with diverse communities, large elderly demographics and extremely busy transport links to all over the world, has been able to handle a relatively unknown, quickly spreading virus particularly well. It vexes me when self appointed experts criticise and chirp away in the background continuously without coming up with solutions and assume they know better. Moby has a hugely negative view point regarding Swedens handling of the pandemic and I do wonder if he's been sucked in by the hysterical headlines? Perhaps he's simply just not well informed enough but I'm hoping this post will broaden his horizon.

Japan also avoided shutting down their economy, in years to come both countries will likely be stellar examples of what to do and what not to do.

Meanwhile in most of the West we’re likely going to suffer long-term consequences for the lockdowns: suicides, increased domestic violence cases, increases in cases of anxiety fear and paranoia. Neighbors ratting out neighbors.

Big Orwellian media pouring gasoline on whatever happens next. Citizens becoming more enslaved by the matrix yet unable to recognize their chains as they watch shadows on the wall which they think represent reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 09:15:04 AM

BoJo is acting just like you in ensuring dissenting voices can't be heard in public briefings and joe public aint 'buying it' ..

Translation: The Remoaners were hoping to capitalise on the virus and it hasn't worked.

WHAT a daft ASSertion .. I keep reminding you that at this time I'd hope a govt's laws re mass gatherings being banned would be listened to and WHY they're being ignored .. this has b'all to to with 'Brexit'

your v own actions, in taking advantage of the PPE supply issues, prove the govt' TOTALLY screwed up re the supply chain.

Wrong, I am not supplying the government. Nor am I using the channels they use. They didn't move fast as government is by nature, sclerotic.

Twaddle, govt's have more buying power and those buying bought unwisely and had plenty of warning

IF the govt. had introduced the lockdown, earlier - we'd not be looking anything like the true 60K deaths ( based on the number of deaths above the mean )

Speculation. Other studies say lockdown useless.

'Speculation' from those the govt failed to listen to, how revealing

I know of a dentist who cannot open up as he cannot get the PPE kit, visors, etc.,for his workers,

Fibber! I'll sell him as many KN95 masks as he wants at happy money with next day delivery. Visors are dirt cheap on eBay.

Hmm, the British Dental Association are 'fibbing' ..? I suppose they are all 'left of centre, and Labour voting' ;)

Quote: "We know many practices are facing high costs for and shortages of PPE. In our recent survey of 2000 practices in England, only a third have enough PPE to hand to provide face-to-face care, and only 25% say have been fit tested.

 https://bda.org/advice/Coronavirus/Pages/face-mask-shortage.aspx (https://bda.org/advice/Coronavirus/Pages/face-mask-shortage.aspx)

Not just 'masks/ respirators'..it's the visors, too..

I guess my friend of 43 years, Kirsty .. was 'fibbing' on the 6th June..

(https://i.imgur.com/HaUk3Cq.png)




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 09:23:55 AM
Just asked , wee Kirsty ..

(https://i.imgur.com/ZfbmLdF.png)

Manny is clearly not reaching out to dentists ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 16, 2020, 11:58:43 AM
Cornfed's 'googling accuracy' strikes again...

I can tell my step-son that following g a surge in cases that working from  home, no mass gatherings, sports, etc., was all a dream, because Cornfed knew better ...

I can write to our main enclosure supplier and 'berate' them for 'fibbing', for daring to 'lies that they had had to suspend production..

I 'defer' to Cornfed's 'knowledge.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/22/from-near-disaster-to-success-story-how-japan-has-tackled-coronavirus (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/22/from-near-disaster-to-success-story-how-japan-has-tackled-coronavirus)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 16, 2020, 02:01:45 PM
Just asked , wee Kirsty ..

(https://i.imgur.com/ZfbmLdF.png)

Manny is clearly not reaching out to dentists ..

Again, I'll supply as many reusable KN95s as they want (which exceeds what they need), in 10 packs, DPD next day delivery from stock with a VAT receipt. Introduce me and make a quid per pack.  :coffeeread:

Visors, Not much over £3 each on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274369330695).

Your "wee Kirsty" is either lying or a bit thick methinks. There are no PPE shortages in the UK at all.

And Wifey went to our Bupa dentist a few days ago. They are open. Dentists must be a bit gormless down south.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on June 16, 2020, 02:10:23 PM
Make sure you got plenty of insurance if your in the US

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-gets-1-1-million-122658232.html

Its just like food.. no money bad diet early death!

Accidents, or hospitalisation ... no money early death..

Fantastic life isn't it.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 16, 2020, 03:58:09 PM
Just asked , wee Kirsty ..

(https://i.imgur.com/ZfbmLdF.png)

Manny is clearly not reaching out to dentists ..

Again, I'll supply as many reusable KN95s as they want (which exceeds what they need), in 10 packs, DPD next day delivery from stock with a VAT receipt. Introduce me and make a quid per pack.  :coffeeread:

Visors, Not much over £3 each on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274369330695).

Your "wee Kirsty" is either lying or a bit thick methinks. There are no PPE shortages in the UK at all.

And Wifey went to our Bupa dentist a few days ago. They are open. Dentists must be a bit gormless down south.

Agreed. A mate of mine works in assisted care and they have too much PPE. In fact the government distributor has been running around in a van trying to get rid but he says nobody wants it. Apparently there’s storage units full of the stuff. There is no PPE shortage in the UK.

Also, its not just wee Kirsty who’s a bit thick if someone blames the Prime Minister for procurement & distribution. He might be at the top but someone will be employed to do this stuff for him. Imagine him phoning round suppliers trying to cut deals on face masks before his 10.30 with the EU shills!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 16, 2020, 04:06:14 PM
Just asked , wee Kirsty ..

(https://i.imgur.com/ZfbmLdF.png)

Manny is clearly not reaching out to dentists ..

Again, I'll supply as many reusable KN95s as they want (which exceeds what they need), in 10 packs, DPD next day delivery from stock with a VAT receipt. Introduce me and make a quid per pack.  :coffeeread:

Visors, Not much over £3 each on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274369330695).

Your "wee Kirsty" is either lying or a bit thick methinks. There are no PPE shortages in the UK at all.

And Wifey went to our Bupa dentist a few days ago. They are open. Dentists must be a bit gormless down south.

Agreed. A mate of mine works in assisted care and they have too much PPE. In fact the government distributor has been running around in a van trying to get rid but he says nobody wants it. Apparently there’s storage units full of the stuff. There is no PPE shortage in the UK.

Also, its not just wee Kirsty who’s a bit thick if someone blames the Prime Minister for procurement & distribution. He might be at the top but someone will be employed to do this stuff for him. Imagine him phoning round suppliers trying to cut deals on face masks before his 10.30 with the EU shills!  :chuckle:

Yet another attempt to push a conspiracy theory by wee moldy troll fails.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 16, 2020, 04:37:10 PM
Make sure you got plenty of insurance if your in the US

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-gets-1-1-million-122658232.html

Its just like food.. no money bad diet early death!

Accidents, or hospitalisation ... no money early death..

Fantastic life isn't it.. :laugh:

No body died for a lack of care. They get a bill and no body pays it except the rich. It is a medical plan where the wealthy pay for the care for the poor. Everyone gets a bill and only those who can pay, pay it making it free health care for the poor. Didn't you get the memo!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 17, 2020, 01:13:36 AM


Your "wee Kirsty" is either lying or a bit thick methinks. There are no PPE shortages in the UK at all.

May be James is 'lying' to her as he 'enjoys' staying at home..

Dentists must be a bit gormless down south.

I hadn't realised Kirsty and James weren't clearly Scots names and that Scotland was 'south' of Manchester ..;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 18, 2020, 10:02:47 AM
Texan probably lives in the part of the United States where the British NHS has set up a subsidiary operation.
For all other uninsured people, apart from emergency care provided in an ER, hospitals are under no requirement to provide health care of any sort to people who are uninsured. https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA

There's around 27 million adult USAians who have no form of health coverage.

Only 56% of uninsured USAians can afford to  pay for routine healthcare. https://www.transamericacenterforhealthstudies.org/docs/default-source/research/tchs2018-healthcare-consumer-research-report.pdf

Of course, millions more are unable to access health care because they are unable to pay the very large copayments and deductibles.
Around 137 million USAians reported having problems with paying for health care in 2017. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-019-05002-w

But yeah, not in Texas where the British Health Service now holds sway and all get health care whether its emergency, preventive or critical care without needing to pay.

Oh, for those who don't know how the NHS works, all Britons get coverage, even if they have 'forgotten' to pay their National Insurance contributions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 18, 2020, 10:37:29 AM
Some people are about to regret rioting being excessively social a few days ago. Now the chickens are coming home to roost!

Quote
With nearly half of US states seeing an uptrend in new US cases, and 10 seeing 7-day averages climb to their highest levels since the beginning of the crisis, the IMHE projections followed by the CDC is now projecting 200k deaths in the US by October. Here's an update on the latest data out of the US, courtesy of Johns Hopkins University's data.

Some 23 states are currently seeing the average 7-day case numbers climbing from week to week: North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Oregon, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, West Virginia and Wyoming.
Eight states are seeing steady numbers: Maine, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, Nebraska, South Dakota and Utah.
Meanwhile, 18 states, including the two states with the worst outbreaks in the country - NY & NJ - are seeing declines in the number of new cases reported daily: Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia and Wisconsin.
Only one state, Vermont, has seen a sustained 50% drop in cases, part of the federal criteria initially laid out by the CDC to justify moving on to the next step in the reopening plan.
Across the US, more than 2 million people have been infected and 117,717 people have died of the virus. The virus claimed 755 lives Wednesday in the US, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.
The latest numbers out of Florida confirm the trend:

FLORIDA COVID-19 CASES RISE 3.9% VS. PREVIOUS 7-DAY AVG. 3%
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/world-sees-record-jump-new-covid-19-cases-deaths-fatalities-near-450k-live-updates

That's not healthy!

And yes, we know that not everybody will fall off their perches - that's for old people and those with high blood pressure or sugar sickness (but that's around 1/2 USAians!).

It's the hospitalisations that'll get yer!
Quote
Texas hospitalizations climbed for a seventh straight day, the longest streak of the pandemic, according to health department data, per https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/concern-of-new-u-s-wave-nyc-to-expand-reopening-virus-update?srnd=coronavirus&sref=2WWyrgO6 (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/concern-of-new-u-s-wave-nyc-to-expand-reopening-virus-update?srnd=coronavirus&sref=2WWyrgO6).

Hospital admissions rose 5% to 2,947 as of Wednesday morning, bringing the one-week increase to almost 50%.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/world-sees-record-jump-new-covid-19-cases-deaths-fatalities-near-450k-live-updates
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 18, 2020, 08:33:21 PM
Researcher David Icke discusses the goal of CV19: A digital currency and only large inhuman Corporations to work for. I suspect this dystopian future will come about within the next ten to twenty years.

               
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 19, 2020, 12:26:38 AM
Ah, 'Cornfed's hero', David Icke ....;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52517797 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52517797)

"YouTube has deleted the conspiracy theorist David Icke's official channel from its platform.

The Google-owned video clip service acted after repeatedly warning Mr Icke that he had violated its policies by posting misleading information about the coronavirus pandemic.

However, the firm will still allow videos posted by others that feature Mr Icke to remain live, so long as their content does not break its rules.

It follows a similar ban by Facebook."


There's Freedom of Speech and those spreading bollox and earning money from the umpties that 'believe'..


You know, even I don't think VVP, 'Trampu' or BoJo are 'reptilians' ...  I suspect along with David Icke, 'Cornfed' does, though !


David Icke interviewed by Terry Wogan, a much missed Irish TV personality who made it big in Britain.




Note how Icke obfuscates the 'Son of God' question ..

Terry Wogan: "They're ( the audience) laughing at you"...

Icke thought they were laughing with him .. CLUELESS
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 19, 2020, 05:10:27 PM
What I am reading is not good news. It appears in many cases that the immunity people get after getting the virus is not lasting more than a few months. What this means that a vaccine may not last more than a few months for many people and may have very limited use when we finally get one. Many people who have already had the disease maybe able to get it again in a few months. More studies need to be done in the area but some early results are not very good. What we are looking at now with social distancing in our current way of life maybe a new normal for sometime to come.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 19, 2020, 07:44:29 PM
What is clear and depressing is seeing today's numbers from The United States. The total new infections is over 30,000 with Texas having the highest numbers. As was noted up thread, Andrew I believe, it is not good. States such as Connecticut still show a downward trend. Until California, Texas, Florida and Arizona start to see lower new infections there will not be the foundation for a real recovery.

One positive note is the percentage of those who succumb to the Virus is decreasing. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 19, 2020, 11:16:24 PM
I know a ward sister at one of the Manchester hospitals. As far as she knew, she hadn’t had it but some colleagues had, and she regularly has come into contact with patients with it.

They’re giving all NHS staff routine antibody tests now, and hers shows she’s had it already and she didn’t know. She remembers one weekend where she felt a bit under the weather and lost her taste a bit, and assumes it was then.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 20, 2020, 03:54:04 AM
Good morning Rosco,

A few days have passed and Sweden STILL tops the rolling 7 day death chart with the UK STILL #2 .. but the US is coming up fast on the UK and Russia ( another nation that not allows its citizens to travel freely within its borders new cases are exactly 'falling' ... ((


(https://i.imgur.com/PMyqmnR.png?1)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?yScale=log&country=CAN~DEU~ITA~RUS~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?yScale=log&country=CAN~DEU~ITA~RUS~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)


So, are you STILL going to suggest Sweden ' got it right' and her economy is 'doing fine' ?

WHY aren't Denmark, Norway and Finland opening up their borders to their neighbour ( other than exceptional circumstances )
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 20, 2020, 07:46:51 AM

One positive note is the percentage of those who succumb to the Virus is decreasing.  [/size][/font]

Yea we are running out of nursing homes. About 30 per cent of out deaths have been in nursing home.

The whole south and west are increasing number of infections with the south being the hardest hit. Arizona having highest positive infection per test rate at around 20 per cent.

The next county over has one of the highest infection rates in the state and we still have nearly none. It seems like intercity where people that will not or can not social distance themselves have the most problems. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 20, 2020, 04:10:15 PM
Sweden STILL tops the rolling 7 day death chart with the UK STILL #2 ..

I just read our deaths were 168 today. It's falling like a stone. Second wave is already dying off (first one was last year, before "Wuhan").

It's almost finished in the UK, herd immunity has reached critical mass.

New Zealand has already declared itself free of the virus. Australia will be next. Japan, China and Korea have it in hand, Vietnam has it under control too.

The 2m social distancing is about to become 1m, and schools will be told to open before September.

It's done.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 20, 2020, 04:22:18 PM
2006 peer reviewed scientific article. Quarantines and masks of questionable use.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552.1109&rep=rep1&type=pdf&fbclid=IwAR0GVd4u_RXcWXs8MvfCxE7WUJNs-O5MTyyEEUwkNFxx4epZq8NyJTp_eQc
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 20, 2020, 09:28:14 PM
Second wave is already dying off (first one was last year, before "Wuhan").


If the UK had a first wave last year, one of your doctors or a lab a doctor sent a culture too would've announced they found something new. I would like to believe UK has at least one doctor or lab that could identify a virus they never seen before. Maybe they dealt with a bad case of flu? I remember reading the vaccine America had last year was around 30% effective for the flu so we got it bad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 21, 2020, 01:25:12 AM
Second wave is already dying off (first one was last year, before "Wuhan").

If the UK had a first wave last year, one of your doctors or a lab a doctor sent a culture too would've announced they found something new. I would like to believe UK has at least one doctor or lab that could identify a virus they never seen before. Maybe they dealt with a bad case of flu? I remember reading the vaccine America had last year was around 30% effective for the flu so we got it bad.

It’s been identified in France I think it was, as early as September or October. Andrew posted about it back thread. Since then, retests have picked it up here and in other European countries in November and December. Everyone thought it was some kind of flu at the time. Lots of us were particularly ill in or around December.

The media are reporting it occasionally in a low key manner, and aren’t making a big hue and cry about it as it destroys the whole Wuhan and “China virus” narrative the US wants out there. That said, it’s still likely it originated in China. And it also explains why they couldn’t find patient zero in Wuhan.

But what it does mean is what we’ve had now is the second wave and that’s why it’s fading so fast here now and elsewhere in Europe.

This will be further confirmed when antibody tests are available to all in the near future.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 21, 2020, 01:56:43 AM
Sweden STILL tops the rolling 7 day death chart with the UK STILL #2 ..

I just read our deaths were 168 today. It’s falling like a stone. Second wave is already dying off (first one was last year, before "Wuhan").

It’s almost finished in the UK, herd immunity has reached critical mass.

New Zealand has already declared itself free of the virus. Australia will be next. Japan, China and Korea have it in hand, Vietnam has it under control too.

The 2m social distancing is about to become 1m, and schools will be told to open before September.

It’s done.
I finally hooked back up with my scientist/virologist friend here in Moscow a couple of weeks ago after about a 2 month hiatus. He had been super busy as his firm contracts about 80% of the test kits being used for the coronavirus with the Ministry of Health.

Of course, in the last 2 weeks I have been bombarding him with questions about the virus. Funnily enough to some people here I'm sure, he agreed with most of my views on the subject which I have mentioned before in this thread, but what I found interesting in what he told me was the following:

1) The virus needs a host. Well, even I could figure that out. But, what I didn't know, is that the virus actually understands that in order for it to survive and propagate, it has to weaken before it starts its second wave if it has caused too much destruction. IOW, if it kills its host, it's committing suicide and therefore the second wave in rarely if ever worse than the first, even after it mutates. While this makes perfect sense, it never occurred to me before.

2) Wearing masks, according to him, is only effective if both parties are wearing one when in close contact. He went on to say that yes, it offers up some protection in other situations, but overall, not much. Gloves only help by reminding you not to touch your face. I mean, who touches their face with gloves on?

3) Ultraviolet rays kill the virus. This has been reported in many publications as a possibility, but sometimes you never know what to believe.

4) The next step is waiting to see if this virus burns itself out, or will it be seasonal like a cold. September seems to be the key month in determining this outcome. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 21, 2020, 02:49:27 AM

I just read our deaths were 168 today. It’s falling like a stone. Second wave is already dying off (first one was last year, before "Wuhan").

It’s almost finished in the UK, herd immunity has reached critical mass.

New Zealand has already declared itself free of the virus. Australia will be next. Japan, China and Korea have it in hand, Vietnam has it under control too.

The 2m social distancing is about to become 1m, and schools will be told to open before September.

It’s done.

NZ had it's first two cases in 24 days.... Two ladies allowed in from the UK...for a funeral..

The weekend stats are always lower...but it does seem to be that the UK new case rate is falling..

President 'Trampu' told his citizens it was over and is holding mass gathers while the US has spikes across the south and west...

It's not 'over' and who told you 'herd immunity' was a 'fact', given in Sweden, less than 10 percent had antibodies present and who has asserted that means immunity'?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on June 21, 2020, 03:27:59 AM
I think it will be burned out before Christmas..

Now everyone is going on about a second wave..mmm third wave? mmm 4th wave.. People just got nothing else to worry about today.. Its JUST a virus!! They come and they go and have been doing so for thousands of years.. its already going..Ok this one caused a bit of havoc a few people died.. like they always do when these things happen..

Just think how lucky you are and what a comfortable life you lead with hot water and lecky .. How would you of managed if you was born into the prehistoric days sat in your cave next to a twig fire after just killing one saber tooth tiger who entered your cave .. and now all night your grunting to the wife "When will the next saber tooth tiger come"  :laugh:

Relax and wait for normality..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 21, 2020, 04:29:29 AM
I think it will be burned out before Christmas..

Relax and wait for normality..

Sadly I doubt we will see 'normality' again. There are those who still believe in Santa Claus, that's okay I understand.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 21, 2020, 07:29:22 AM

1) The virus needs a host. Well, even I could figure that out. But, what I didn't know, is that the virus actually understands that in order for it to survive and propagate, it has to weaken before it starts its second wave if it has caused too much destruction. IOW, if it kills its host, it's committing suicide and therefore the second wave in rarely if ever worse than the first, even after it mutates.


What happens is natural selection. The virus does not understand anything. Just when it transfer if the patient is not sick then the patient does not social distance making the virus easier to move on to the next patient. What has made this virus so hard to stop is the large number of people that do not have symptoms or have such mild symptoms they do not believe they have the disease who can still transfer the disease. This make contract tracing hard. The antibody tests to tell who had the disease is very inaccurate.

In the southern climate they are now having winter. Brazil is in line to maybe pass up the USA as the country with the most deaths and cases. More like October , November when the climate starts to cool and the virus is able to spread better and children are in school is when most European countries will be most acceptable to a second wave. When it turns cold and people stay inside more and use mass transit will be a tuff time. In 1918 the virus waves were nearly a year apart and mutated each time to be noticeably different. All three waves killed a lot of people.

In Andrew's article they use looking back through millions of exrays to see if any body had it. A few of them had anomalies that might of been the virus. The reason no one picks up on this is very unlikely they found anything.  Exrays have very low resolutions and are not conclusive as a test if a person has the disease or not. Still it made a story that someone would read. Noticed not even the Chinese picked up on it.

Heard immunity does not seem to last long with this disease and next winter few people will be immune. In 1918 all three waves killed a lot of people. This is really not a second wave but rather parts of the first wave. The real second wave does not start until the first wave of infections go to or nearly to zero world wide.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on June 21, 2020, 08:03:26 AM
I think it will be burned out before Christmas..

Relax and wait for normality..

Sadly I doubt we will see 'normality' again. There are those who still believe in Santa Claus, that's okay I understand.

Not much has been Normal in the world in any case for a long time now..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 21, 2020, 08:15:38 AM
Tex, thanks for your expert advice, but I think I'll listen to a guy with 30 years experience studying and researching viruses.

Most of what you said can be found by google or whatever search engine you use. There are still some unknown qualities about this particular virus which can change its course. Natural selection, sure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 21, 2020, 08:45:56 AM
Good morning Rosco,

A few days have passed and Sweden STILL tops the rolling 7 day death chart with the UK STILL #2 .. but the US is coming up fast on the UK and Russia ( another nation that not allows its citizens to travel freely within its borders new cases are exactly 'falling' ... ((


(https://i.imgur.com/PMyqmnR.png?1)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?yScale=log&country=CAN~DEU~ITA~RUS~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?yScale=log&country=CAN~DEU~ITA~RUS~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA)


So, are you STILL going to suggest Sweden ' got it right' and her economy is 'doing fine' ?

WHY aren't Denmark, Norway and Finland opening up their borders to their neighbour ( other than exceptional circumstances )

Moby, I won’t be engaging you anymore unless you start acting your age. Responding to provocation and fabrication is a complete waste of my time. I’ve already asked you and you’ve failed to provide, so i’ll ask for the last time;

Quote me directly where I’ve said, Sweden got it right.

Once we establish that your accusations have been made up or imagined, we can perhaps then start to discuss reality. I simply pulled out some rather interesting statistics which you couldn’t handle, so you’ve done what you always do, and begin to lie and imagine stuff that hasn’t been said, and bait me into an endless argument about things you imagine.

An intelligent person would receive the statistics well, broaden the mind set and understand that measuring success using a singular data point is silly. Unless of course this is all about winning an argument on the internet with a stranger.

Quote me or be man enough to stick your hand up and say you got it wrong. Tell me that you’ve misread or misunderstood and we’ll begin to have a civil discussion. Re-read my posts and understand that I’ve been quite ambivalent to Sweden’s handling of the virus but the data I supplied, clearly put sweeping negative statements into context.

You’re either being mischievous or you’re not very clever but stop your crap if you want a discussion because I won’t waste my time on you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 21, 2020, 09:11:55 AM

Quote me directly where I’ve said, Sweden got it right.
I'm still looking for evidence that lockdowns work or are effective, but can't seem to find any. Oh that's right, there is none.

Oh BTW, 2/3 of new cases in the past couple of months were contracted indoors, usually with/from family members. Carry on.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 21, 2020, 09:19:09 AM
Rosco, the REAL reason you won't be 'engaging me' is because either you won't see my response when you post bollox or you chose not to respond

Example 1 .. you insisted that the UK govts 100k target was being 'met' for tests before the end of May ..Since which time we now know they were being doubled counted in many instances ..and the stats were queried by folk who'd know

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/uk-statistics-chief-calls-for-clarity-over-daily-covid-19-test-count


Example 2 Sweden : You've tried to post a counter to my pointing out Danchik was being disingenuous re Sweden's success and even suggested their economy was suffering less ..

So, please tell us why most Swedes were excluded from travelling to other EU nations?

Or you can ask Danchik for help ? 

Danchik, I can remind you of the evidence ....

Clue #1 : Sweden managed to have TEN times, proportionately, the deaths of neighbouring Finland and Norway and SIX times that of Denmark

Clue #2:  Swedes don't have a higher antibodies present ...  if you are one of 'those' who still think 'herd immunity' exists to a virus with thousands of variants.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 21, 2020, 09:21:10 AM
Keeping children in school surely does not work. Look at what happened in New York. Having large funerals did not work neither. Look at what happened in Albany Georgia. Have large festivals also did not work. Look at what happened in new Orleans. Maybe a lock down was not needed but surely some form of social distancing is needed. The Chinese are still using lock downs so they must think they work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 21, 2020, 09:39:50 AM
It's my understanding (just what I heard, haven't googled anything) that only the Wuhan province was initially on lockdown and many other parts of China were not. I could be wrong, maybe you know Tex?

It's another variable in this equation. IOW, fighting this virus is not a one size fits all proposition, which I believe to be true.

Is all of China on Lockdown? I can't find any info reporting lockdowns other than a few cities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 21, 2020, 09:45:46 AM
Is all of China on Lockdown? I can't find any info reporting lockdowns other than a few cities.

Not at all. Life is back to normal in most places.

They only lock down small areas where new outbreaks occur now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 21, 2020, 09:50:47 AM
Is all of China on Lockdown? I can't find any info reporting lockdowns other than a few cities.

Not at all. Life is back to normal in most places.

They only lock down small areas where new outbreaks occur now.

I believe yesterday Beijing went under some form of lockdown/quaratine because of there virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 21, 2020, 10:00:06 AM
Rosco, the REAL reason you won't be 'engaging me' is because either you won't see my response when you post bollox or you chose not to respond

Example 1 .. you insisted that the UK govts 100k target was being 'met' for tests before the end of May ..Since which time we now know they were being doubled counted in many instances ..and the stats were queried by folk who'd know

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/uk-statistics-chief-calls-for-clarity-over-daily-covid-19-test-count


Example 2 Sweden : You've tried to post a counter to my pointing out Danchik was being disingenuous re Sweden's success and even suggested their economy was suffering less ..

So, please tell us why most Swedes were excluded from travelling to other EU nations?

Or you can ask Danchik for help ? 

Danchik, I can remind you of the evidence ....

Clue #1 : Sweden managed to have TEN times, proportionately, the deaths of neighbouring Finland and Norway and SIX times that of Denmark

Clue #2:  Swedes don't have a higher antibodies present ...  if you are one of 'those' who still think 'herd immunity' exists to a virus with thousands of variants.
Moby, I've seen your rants/posts and other nonsense from you. I have never liked broken records, please if you think you're going to change my mind with regards to Sweden, save your time and energy, simply not going to happen.

I know what's going on there and the real facts. However, your silliness is noted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on June 21, 2020, 10:26:10 AM
I live 45 miles from Orlando, one of Florida's hot spots.  I live in Brevard County (next to Orange county (Orlando)).  In Brevard County we have closed Covid19 wards because they have never been used.  There are 600,000 people in Brevard.  It is also very red.  Go figure
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 21, 2020, 11:12:19 AM

It’s been identified in France I think it was, as early as September or October.



A lot of people on the internet "think" they had it last year. I've talked to no less than 5 people in real life that "think" they had it. After SARS epidemic was contained, SARS escaped out of Chinese labs at least 6 times. There are many things that have escaped from Chinese labs. That is one reason they report more episodes of epidemics than other nations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 21, 2020, 11:33:46 AM
Rosco, the REAL reason you won't be 'engaging me' is because either you won't see my response when you post bollox or you chose not to respond

Example 1 .. you insisted that the UK govts 100k target was being 'met' for tests before the end of May ..Since which time we now know they were being doubled counted in many instances ..and the stats were queried by folk who'd know

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/uk-statistics-chief-calls-for-clarity-over-daily-covid-19-test-count


Example 2 Sweden : You've tried to post a counter to my pointing out Danchik was being disingenuous re Sweden's success and even suggested their economy was suffering less ..

So, please tell us why most Swedes were excluded from travelling to other EU nations?

Or you can ask Danchik for help ? 

Danchik, I can remind you of the evidence ....

Clue #1 : Sweden managed to have TEN times, proportionately, the deaths of neighbouring Finland and Norway and SIX times that of Denmark

Clue #2:  Swedes don't have a higher antibodies present ...  if you are one of 'those' who still think 'herd immunity' exists to a virus with thousands of variants.

Consider yourself ignored from here on in Moby. Even the simple stuff gets you all tied up in knots and I’ve not got the patience for your dysfunctional behaviour. If it were this thread alone, I’d possibly waste some more time helping you understand but your destined to drown in your own poison.

You can’t even see that I’m not trying to beat you. I’m not even trying to change your mind. I’m simply trying to help you understand what I’ve written because you just can’t keep up.

From the horses mouth, I’m not engaging you because you’re a pathetic little argumentative man who just spends his life quarrelling with online strangers. You had a chance for redemption but you’re so ill you can’t save yourself.

You’re not big enough to concede, you’re not honest enough to be civil, you’re not humble enough to meet in the middle, you’re not clever enough to understand what you read and you’re too argumentative to have friends.

Now f*ck off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 21, 2020, 11:41:22 AM
Keeping children in school surely does not work. Look at what happened in New York. Having large funerals did not work neither. Look at what happened in Albany Georgia. Have large festivals also did not work. Look at what happened in new Orleans. Maybe a lock down was not needed but surely some form of social distancing is needed. The Chinese are still using lock downs so they must think they work.

Which is pretty much the point I made up thread. Nobody has ‘done it right’ and I suspect there isn’t 1 perfect way to navigate the pandemic. We faced losing vulnerable people whatever we did and simply comparing deaths between countries around the world when the variance of both reporting and structure is so diverse, makes it silly to stand on a soap box and rant. I’ve noticed that those people never come me up with solutions and usually try to politicise the situation. #twats

From a data POV it’s good that we’ve not all done the same thing. In my post before I suggested that we’ll learn from this shit storm and we’ll cherry pick the best of each scenario. Right now social distancing/etiquette looks to be better than either a full lock down or doing nothing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 21, 2020, 12:03:24 PM

Quote me directly where I’ve said, Sweden got it right.
I'm still looking for evidence that lockdowns work or are effective, but can't seem to find any. Oh that's right, there is none.
Is there any proof that 1+1 = 2 ? no of course not, everyone knows this to be true because its a simple grasp.

Same with lockdown/coronavirus/

You dont meet sick people, you cant get sick from them. Its that simple.


Oh BTW, 2/3 of new cases in the past couple of months were contracted indoors, usually with/from family members. Carry on.
Is that perhaps because the lockdowns are working and there would be a 10-fold rate of infection outside of your home without it? :-\

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-superspreader-south-korea-church.html


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 21, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Rosco, the REAL reason you won't be 'engaging me' is because either you won't see my response when you post bollox or you chose not to respond

Example 1 .. you insisted that the UK govts 100k target was being 'met' for tests before the end of May ..Since which time we now know they were being doubled counted in many instances ..and the stats were queried by folk who'd know

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/uk-statistics-chief-calls-for-clarity-over-daily-covid-19-test-count


Example 2 Sweden : You've tried to post a counter to my pointing out Danchik was being disingenuous re Sweden's success and even suggested their economy was suffering less ..

So, please tell us why most Swedes were excluded from travelling to other EU nations?

Or you can ask Danchik for help ? 

Danchik, I can remind you of the evidence ....

Clue #1 : Sweden managed to have TEN times, proportionately, the deaths of neighbouring Finland and Norway and SIX times that of Denmark

Clue #2:  Swedes don't have a higher antibodies present ...  if you are one of 'those' who still think 'herd immunity' exists to a virus with thousands of variants.

Consider yourself ignored from here on in Moby. Even the simple stuff gets you all tied up in knots and I’ve not got the patience for your dysfunctional behaviour. If it were this thread alone, I’d possibly waste some more time helping you understand but your destined to drown in your own poison.

You can’t even see that I’m not trying to beat you. I’m not even trying to change your mind. I’m simply trying to help you understand what I’ve written because you just can’t keep up.

From the horses mouth, I’m not engaging you because you’re a pathetic little argumentative man who just spends his life quarrelling with online strangers. You had a chance for redemption but you’re so ill you can’t save yourself.

You’re not big enough to concede, you’re not honest enough to be civil, you’re not humble enough to meet in the middle, you’re not clever enough to understand what you read and you’re too argumentative to have friends.

Now f*ck off.

 :ROFL:   :ROFL:     :ROFL:

(he’s not gonna get any more oxygen going forward from me either)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 21, 2020, 04:31:32 PM

It’s been identified in France I think it was, as early as September or October.



A lot of people on the internet "think" they had it last year. I've talked to no less than 5 people in real life that "think" they had it. After SARS epidemic was contained, SARS escaped out of Chinese labs at least 6 times. There are many things that have escaped from Chinese labs. That is one reason they report more episodes of epidemics than other nations.

No Billy, it has been identified positively in Europe last year from x-rays and swabs of material retained. Again, go and do the reading -  I am not your researcher.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 21, 2020, 07:10:02 PM

It’s been identified in France I think it was, as early as September or October.



A lot of people on the internet "think" they had it last year. I've talked to no less than 5 people in real life that "think" they had it. After SARS epidemic was contained, SARS escaped out of Chinese labs at least 6 times. There are many things that have escaped from Chinese labs. That is one reason they report more episodes of epidemics than other nations.

No Billy, it has been identified positively in Europe last year from x-rays and swabs of material retained. Again, go and do the reading -  I am not your researcher.

News reports say a patient in France positively ID'd for the virus Dec 27. That does not mean the virus originated in Europe at the time just because China announced it to the world later on Dec 30. My uncle took a train ride through China and in the middle of November, his train of tourists were told to go around Wuhan. Chinese officials claim American soldiers brought it to Wuhan in August during the Military World Games. There's a lot of people on the internet that claim they are the first to get it based on a mysterious illness they had last year. When a World body such as a the CDC or WHO says they have proof the virus didn't originate from China, I'll believe what you say. For now, my President and your PM will be punishing China.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52526554
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 21, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
World wide the coronavirus set new records for the most number of cases in a single day. Nearly 5000 people have died in the last 24 hours because of the virus.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/who-reports-largest-single-day-increase-in-coronavirus-cases/ar-BB15NTAC?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 22, 2020, 05:32:41 AM
I sometimes wonder whether people purposefully misunderstand what they read, or are told (Yup, I am pretty sure that some people do).

From what I read, I am pretty sure that some people are given overly simplified information - it looks as though some people have been somewhat patronised.

It is clear that some people are simply unable to understand what they read or are told.

Without commenting on the above here's some highlights:
1) Viruses make no choices, they are in no way sentient. Mutations occur at random, although we can predict the rate at which mutations occur, which helps us to determine the age of a virus strain and understand its geographic path. We have no way to predict what mutations are likely to happen.
i) There's no way to know whether a mutation will arise that makes a virus more, or less, virulent than its earlier generations.
ii) It is true that an overly virulent virus will tend to limit its own spread, however there are two issues here:
a) infectivity (how easy it is to become infected by the organism
b) virulence (how badly it affects the infected person)

We can hope that a virus becomes less harmful but there is absolutely no guarantee of that happening. All that a virus 'cares about' to use an anthropomorphism is that it is able to reproduce. A virus that is inevitably fatal can be just as successful as one that is not often fatal as long as the virus spreads before the host dies. That's what happens already with Covid-19. The host is shedding virions before they show symptoms. By the time the host dies (in the case of a fatality) the spread of virions is pretty much finished. There's no genetic benefit to become less harmful.

2) The story about Corona virus started at the Wuhan Military Games seems to have started outside of China by observers who noticed the coincidence of times. We do not know if this was the case, in part because the USA have refused to share samples from their athletes who took part in the event. It seems that one Chinese spokesman referred to this possibility, it was not repeated, to the best of my knowledge, by any other ranking official.

3) Lockdowns DO work, the evidence of this is absolutely clear. In fact with a little thought the success can be inferred from the fact that people passed the virus to others in the household, but no further! The best form of lockdown is that practised in China, but rejected elsewhere apart from, to some degree, Russia. When a person is tested as positive for Covid-19 they need to be isolated. Leaving them with people who are not yet infected is a very weak form of lockdown, but as we have seen in Sweden, is much better than the very weak form implemented there.

4) Masks are much more effective than some people seem to think - but only when done right! An effective mask (not a medical respirator) can reduce the transmission of virions by over 70%. A similarly effective mask can reduce the reception of virions by around 30%. In that situation, there will be almost no transmission of virus from an infected person to a non-infected person. Even a far less effective mask will reduce the possibility of infection almost totally. The effectiveness of masks for receipt and transmission of viruses is not additive but synergistic.

However, poor wearing technique, saturated filters, damp masking fabrics all serve to make the wearing of a mask almost pointless. On the other hand I'd prefer to wear a clean, well filtered, well fitting mask to take care of myself, even if those around me are not wearing them - it will still reduce my exposure.

5) There is plenty of historical data that shows the Coronavirus was floating around for weeks or months in France, Italy and elsewhere weeks and months before it became obvious to the world. We do not yet know that China was not the starting point and, frankly, given the unique situation in the region, it is pretty likely to be from China. it is why the USA and others maintained research facilities in common with China to study the interface between animals such as bats and humans in the region.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 22, 2020, 06:01:11 AM

It is clear that some people are simply unable to understand what they read or are told.

3) Lockdowns DO work, the evidence of this is absolutely clear. In fact with a little thought the success can be inferred from the fact that people passed the virus to others in the household, but no further! The best form of lockdown is that practised in China, but rejected elsewhere apart from, to some degree, Russia. When a person is tested as positive for Covid-19 they need to be isolated. Leaving them with people who are not yet infected is a very weak form of lockdown, but as we have seen in Sweden, is much better than the very weak form implemented there.

Well summarized.

Is it possible that you meant to write implemented here?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 22, 2020, 06:12:22 AM


3) Lockdowns DO work, the evidence of this is absolutely clear. In fact with a little thought the success can be inferred from the fact that people passed the virus to others in the household, but no further! The best form of lockdown is that practised in China, but rejected elsewhere apart from, to some degree, Russia.

andrewfi and I even manage to agree on some topics ...

However, I query using Russia as an 'good' example as the lockdown may have been strict in ( say) Moscow, but in other regions the observance of 'lockdown' was farcical.

Their lockdowns were decided by Governors, who knew the situation, better, but VVP remarked on the USA, "Can you imagine" Governors telling the President  he is mistaken" , as he removed all lockdowns.. IMHO FAR too early ..to allow his vote on constitutional change to occur



 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 22, 2020, 07:39:15 AM
No, I meant the wording I used. Many people have been misinformed. Sweden did take action to reduce transmission of covid-19 including isolation and social distancing. The form they chose was a very weak form, but it did and does exist.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 22, 2020, 08:00:10 AM
Many people have been misinformed. Sweden did take action to reduce transmission of covid-19 including isolation and social distancing. The form they chose was a very weak form, but it did and does exist.

Clearly, it's too slow a day at RUA .. so andrewfi tries to be catalyst ;)

Sweden took VERY limited action .. no mass gatherings.. and trusted citizens to stay apart ... and thoroughly failed the elderly .

It conducted a deliberate and murderous experiment
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 22, 2020, 08:42:58 AM
I have spent hours upon hours talking to people, listening to podcasts, watching videos and reading articles from doctors, scientists, virologists, et al. All respected people and even various so called experts. There is no one on this board whose views supersede these people, nor do any of you have knowledge beyond them.

I believe what I believe by formulating my thoughts and weeding out what I think is untrue though facts presented in these spheres and a history of cases.

If anyone disagrees with anything I have said, great. Part of a discussion board is to share our beliefs and present various views on the topic at hand. I'm certainly not here to "win" arguments. I like different points of view as it allows me to see something I might have previously overlooked.

I have read nothing here in this whole thread that has changed my mind on anything about this virus as of yet. That doesn't mean I don't keep an open mind and things can change course, as well as my views on the matter. Humans have lived through viruses worse than this one, the only (big) difference is this time around we have a world that is much more connected to information; all sorts of information. For every "fact" someone presents, I could show you many opposing viewpoints. It can get distorted for sure.

Everyone has their own opinion formed by their own examination of their facts/misinformation presented to them by whatever means and should live their lives accordingly to their situation. I surely will live mine that way.

Oh BTW, as for lockdowns working, well, I don't agree. But maybe it's in the semantics or it's just another form of information overload as I mentioned above. Everyone likes to use Sweden as an example as if that was the only place that didn't go along with the "plan". Sweden has admitted they made some mistakes, most notably allowing their nursing homes to remain unprotected, you know, like New York City where a vast majority of deaths were reported also, despite a lockdown.

I could also use Japan as a counter since they DIDN'T lockdown, but did use other safety measures explained in this article and have seen excellent results fighting the virus, despite a very centralised population. Hong Kong is another example, as well as Taiwan as stated in the article.
https://www.aei.org/articles/lockdowns-dont-work/

If you don't want to read the whole article (the author makes many good points throughout), here's a relevant quote from it:

"The best evidence (that lockdowns DO NOT work) comes from Wuhan, where China imposed a strict lockdown in late January. Researchers have found that this lockdown, combined with other prior policies, as well as population behavioral changes, may have reduced the reproduction rate of the disease from 3.9 to 1.3: a big change, but not enough to prevent the spread of the disease. In Wuhan, the reproductive rate did not drop to 0.3, a level at which the disease can truly be beaten, until after centralized quarantine measures had been put in place. It was centralized quarantine that beat COVID in Wuhan, not lockdowns".

"But while the data from Wuhan support my argument that lockdown effects are far more modest than advocates claim, it’s not clear if Chinese data should be trusted". The author then goes on and examines Italy, Spain, France, Sweden and the Netherlands to further make his point.

I will say that I'm done debating/commenting on the coronavirus. I had my last rant and this is my last comment on the subject even though I'm sure others will chime in that I'm daft, or completely disagree. Knock yourselves out, but I'll have no more of it. There's nothing new at this point in time that will lead me to believe otherwise.

Furthermore, I think I'm smart enough to understand what's going on currently given the boatload of information I've gone through. If anyone believes differently, I have no problem with that. I respect everyone's point of view and I hope you respect mine.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 22, 2020, 08:51:06 AM
Meanwhile..

not a few nations some us us praised for locking down have relaxed the lockdown and several weeks later have an increasing problem..

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germanys-r-number-rockets-again-from-1-79-to-2-88-12012143 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-germanys-r-number-rockets-again-from-1-79-to-2-88-12012143)

For those of us who actually pay attention Japan DID lockdown after a spike .. 

Some of us have a micro-biologist, ( who's had it ) and a highly qualified doctor, as biz partners and they both think the English part of the UK is pandering to commercial rather than  scientific reasoning, re loosening the reigns..





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 22, 2020, 08:54:57 AM
I have spent hours upon hours talking to people, listening to podcasts, watching videos and reading articles from doctors, scientists, virologists, et al. All respected people and even various so called experts. There is no one on this board whose views supersede these people, nor do any of you have knowledge beyond them.

I believe what I believe by formulating my thoughts and weeding out what I think is untrue though facts presented in these spheres and a history of cases.

If anyone disagrees with anything I have said, great. Part of a discussion board is to share our beliefs and present various views on the topic at hand. I'm certainly not here to "win" arguments. I like different points of view as it allows me to see something I might have previously overlooked.

I have read nothing here in this whole thread that has changed my mind on anything about this virus as of yet. That doesn't mean I don't keep an open mind and things can change course, as well as my views on the matter. Humans have lived through viruses worse than this one, the only (big) difference is this time around we have a world that is much more connected to information; all sorts of information. For every "fact" someone presents, I could show you many opposing viewpoints. It can get distorted for sure.

Everyone has their own opinion formed by their own examination of their facts/misinformation presented to them by whatever means and should live their lives accordingly to their situation. I surely will live mine that way.

Oh BTW, as for lockdowns working, well, I don't agree. But maybe it's in the semantics or it's just another form of information overload as I mentioned above. Everyone likes to use Sweden as an example as if that was the only place that didn't go along with the "plan". Sweden has admitted they made some mistakes, most notably allowing their nursing homes to remain unprotected, you know, like New York City where a vast majority of deaths were reported also, despite a lockdown.

I could also use Japan as a counter since they DIDN'T lockdown, but did use other safety measures explained in this article and have seen excellent results fighting the virus, despite a very centralised population. Hong Kong is another example, as well as Taiwan as stated in the article.
https://www.aei.org/articles/lockdowns-dont-work/

If you don't want to read the whole article (the author makes many good points throughout), here's a relevant quote from it:

"The best evidence (that lockdowns DO NOT work) comes from Wuhan, where China imposed a strict lockdown in late January. Researchers have found that this lockdown, combined with other prior policies, as well as population behavioral changes, may have reduced the reproduction rate of the disease from 3.9 to 1.3: a big change, but not enough to prevent the spread of the disease. In Wuhan, the reproductive rate did not drop to 0.3, a level at which the disease can truly be beaten, until after centralized quarantine measures had been put in place. It was centralized quarantine that beat COVID in Wuhan, not lockdowns".

"But while the data from Wuhan support my argument that lockdown effects are far more modest than advocates claim, it’s not clear if Chinese data should be trusted". The author then goes on and examines Italy, Spain, France, Sweden and the Netherlands to further make his point.

I will say that I'm done debating/commenting on the coronavirus. I had my last rant and this is my last comment on the subject even though I'm sure others will chime in that I'm daft, or completely disagree. Knock yourselves out, but I'll have no more of it. There's nothing new at this point in time that will lead me to believe otherwise.

Furthermore, I think I'm smart enough to understand what's going on currently given the boatload of information I've gone through. If anyone believes differently, I have no problem with that. I respect everyone's point of view and I hope you respect mine.

Well I enjoy your posts Danchik, post away!

Moby being moby posted this video on YT. Anyone who can read knows that both of Obama’s maternal grandparents were in the CIA. Anyone with a modicum of sense knows US elections are often a sham as candidates like Oblahblah are handpicked. Here is Obama announcing their plan. Others like moby see it differently.

         
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on June 22, 2020, 09:02:39 AM
Well I enjoy your posts Danchik, post away!
Oh, I plan on posting, just not in this thread. If this thread is still moving in 3-6 months as more evidence appears, I might revisit it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 22, 2020, 09:48:03 AM


Moby being moby posted this video on YT. Anyone who can read
and view the video, removing their tin foll hat will know that 'Trampu' disbanded mechanism to swiftly respond to outbreaks, but anything 'O'Bama' touched, 'Trampu' has to undo...

Anyone with a modicum of sense knows US elections are often a sham as candidates like Oblahblah are handpicked. Here is Obama announcing their plan. Others like moby see it differently.


Others, like moby, find your latest wacko conspiracy theory hilarious ..

Cornfed:

"1/ 5G is 'dangerous'

2/  The world is run by reptilians

3/ 'O'Bama' is a CIA plant and was behind the virus ..."

 :'(


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 22, 2020, 07:47:45 PM

"The best evidence (that lockdowns DO NOT work) comes from Wuhan, where China imposed a strict lockdown in late January. Researchers have found that this lockdown, combined with other prior policies, as well as population behavioral changes, may have reduced the reproduction rate of the disease from 3.9 to 1.3: a big change,


What is does is makes it so the hospitals can keep up and people are not dying without care. Hospital are able to save some people who would of died without care. It that is not enough in your eyes then they do not work because that is all you get.

What china is doing now when they get a breakout they try to contact trace and find all of it. When that does not work the test the entire city. The lock any areas that have cases.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 22, 2020, 08:34:37 PM
Expert says US likely to have high number of cases all summer, into the fall, and maybe beyond.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-will-rage-like-a-forest-fire-in-unprepared-america-top-doc-warns/ar-BB15Pa7z?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 22, 2020, 09:41:54 PM
Quote
In general in the United States, flu season can start anytime in late fall, peak in mid-to-late winter (between January and February), and continue through early spring.  On average, flu season lasts about 13 weeks. It will usually end by April, but in some years it can linger into May.


Quote
In the United States, the flu season is considered October through May. It typically reaches an apex in February.

So this is the same as the seasonal flu bug?   Why are people still getting infected and dying in the middle of summer?    :'( :duh: :GRAVE:


Quote
Seventeen years after the severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) outbreak and seven years since the first Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) case, there is still no coronavirus vaccine despite dozens of attempts to develop them.

Maybe the same result with this new viral strain.

Quote
New Covid-19 clusters have been found in a Pentecostal church in Oregon, a strip club in Wisconsin and in every imaginable place in between.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bars-strip-clubs-and-churches-us-virus-outbreaks-enter-unwieldy-phase/ar-BB15QD7Y

The Corona virus thanks you for expanding the host pool.    (:) :dh:

Quote
As was shown, for example, in 1955 when the original Salk polio vaccine was hastily rolled out, from rushing no good can come. A mishap in mass-producing the vaccine caused polio in 70,000 children, permanently crippling 164 of them and killing 10.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/race-develop-covid-vaccine-185516659.html

You all can be the "sacrificial lamb" or the "canary in the coal mine".    :chuckle: :biggrin:


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 22, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
Quote
"Not only is it not fading out — this will be with us for at least another 12 months, and that's the most optimistic scenario for having a vaccine."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/heres-how-long-well-be-struggling-with-covid-19-says-harvard-doctor/ar-BB15Pflm

So you think it will be kaput by the fall season?  We will see who will be "eating crow" by the end of the year.  They should cancel all holidays for the remainder of this year (especially those at the end of the year).  You have nothing to be thankful for and family reunions will only makes things worse.  No Auld Lang Syne in Times Square needed.    :whist11: :duh: :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 23, 2020, 06:51:15 AM
Danchik, you seem to not understand what r0 means. The figures you say are not a big change are, in fact, huge. It's why so few people died in China.

People and numbers, it's always so disappointing that so many people's grasp of simple maths is so poor. It's almost as though ignorance is, these days, a badge of honour.

Taking the numbers you shared as being correct for a moment, r1. 3 means that for every person who is infected 1.3 people will become infected from the first person.

R3. 9 means from that first infected, 3.9 people will be infected. That's 300% more than the first case. If you understand percentages and ratios then you know that's not a small change. How could you have thought otherwise?

However, it doesn't stop there because each person goes on to infect others. With an r0 of 3.9 the numbers over time become vast. With r0=1.3 they are tiny.
Check this calculator here to see the differences between the 'small' changes you noted. https://gabgoh.github.io/COVID/
Incidentally, the calculator shows how the virus could've been circulating for weeks or months without being noticed - that's the exponential effect in play! In the early stages even with exponential increases, most people will have been infected, recovered, and gone on with their lives.

To reach herd immunity with this disease we need 62% of the population to have been infected and recovered. Fatalities do not help create herd immunity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 23, 2020, 07:26:11 AM
On the very day, the largest part of the UK announces an end in sight to sheltering and a return to normality for hospitality and hair salons ( end of next week) German has to the introduce lockdowns (

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/23/german-state-back-lockdown-surge-cases-linked-slaughterhouse-12890602/

The world's #1 male Tennis player tests positive...

..and R numbers are up in many nations that have eased up..

I would love to be able to cruise on a boat, go to the pub, stay in a hotel overnight and spend time with the missus'....but are we being overly optimistic ?

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 23, 2020, 08:26:05 AM
He is just not willing to admit that if you stay locked down long enough the transmission rate will go below 1 and the disease will start to decline like in the UK and even go to zero like it did in Wuhan. If you will social distancing after the lock down the numbers can continue decline and it is a lot easier with limited number of people in the country that have the disease. If we would have test kits in large enough supply and know what we know now the country wide lock down may not of been needed because the only thing differ between now and before the lock down is the social distancing measures. We might of had to close down for one week to redo all business, go to on line schooling and stop large events and we likely could of controlled it with less cost to the economy. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2020, 09:23:04 AM
R3. 9 means from that first infected, 3.9 people will be infected. That's 300% more than the first case. If you understand percentages and ratios then you know that's not a small change. How could you have thought otherwise?


You mean 390% more?

To reach herd immunity with this disease we need 62% of the population to have been infected and recovered. Fatalities do not help create herd immunity.


They haven't determined  yet if immunity is guaranteed. 4 infected monkeys got over COVID-19. They were re-introduced to the virus. Two monkeys got re-infected. For SARS, they estimated immunity will be good for a couple of years because antibody levels remained high but once diminished, people could get re-infected with SARS. We won't know for years if we'll have lifetime immunity from SARS-COV-2
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 23, 2020, 12:27:26 PM
Again

Who has confirmed 'herd immunity' exists for an ever mutating Coronavirus?

Do we have 'herd immunity' from the common cold?...

I am sure you realise there's no vaccine for that form of Coronavirus, either.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 23, 2020, 05:53:04 PM
This is about what happened in India. They locked down for two months and did very well. Then they opened up and the virus went wild. Now health care system over loaded and not functioning in many cases. Interesting story.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/indias-hospitals-overwhelmed-as-coronavirus-slams-country/vi-BB15SPVZ
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 24, 2020, 01:20:08 AM
Seems that closer to home, Houston, Texas has seen cases go though the roof, “alarming” increase is related to a lack of social distancing".. 

Same everywhere.... some folks just don't 'get it' .. and worry about their 'personal freedoms' ..

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Texas-sees-weekend-surge-in-COVID-19-15356042.php

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 24, 2020, 04:36:23 PM
Has Houston had any of the protests or other big gatherings? Or is it individuals being careless?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 24, 2020, 04:48:27 PM
Has Houston had any of the protests or other big gatherings? Or is it individuals being careless?

Yes we did have some protest in this area also.  Before that people came from new Orleans into the minority neighborhoods in Houston some months ago. Poor inter city minority neighborhoods just like other poor parts in the rest of the country. The county I am in near Houston hardly has any infections.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 24, 2020, 05:15:08 PM
Has Houston had any of the protests or other big gatherings? Or is it individuals being careless?

Yes we did have some protest in this area also.  Before that people came from new Orleans into the minority neighborhoods in Houston some months ago. Poor inter city minority neighborhoods just like other poor parts in the rest of the country. The county I am in near Houston hardly has any infections.

So if it's the lower socioeconomic groups bringing it on themselves, not too much to worry about for regular middle class folks as long as you can avoid them?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 24, 2020, 05:30:11 PM
No, billyb, once again we see that you have problems with numbers. Even simple numbers.

If you are typical of your peers it is easy to see how so many of you are hoodwinked and are so easy to mislead. Without the basic tools for analysis one cannot hope to be able to form one's own valid opinions and cannot discern when one is being lied to.

It's more than a little sad. What's your opinion on the flat earth question? Is the moon made of cheese? Does the sun circle the earth?  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2020, 09:00:11 PM

R3. 9 means from that first infected, 3.9 people will be infected. That's 300% more than the first case. If you understand percentages and ratios then you know that's not a small change.


No, billyb, once again we see that you have problems with numbers. Even simple numbers.


You got 300% more than the first case based on R3.9. You can keep your fuzzy math. I'll stick with mine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 25, 2020, 12:02:34 AM
I was just reading and an off shoot of the virus is the deaths of inter cities in the USA and other parts of the world. First if there is very much empty office spare because of people working at home. Many of the business are not coming back, the work at home is becoming permanent. The retail space in inter cities is being vacated at a very fast pace. Many business could not stand the lock down. Then the riots, protest, and lack of police has retail business that did not go broke leaving any way. This move  makes unemployed people in inter cities likely in many case to not got get reemployed. The trouble is they will not be able to pay rent on there apartments. Then apartment building also become worthless. The trouble with all of this is this property which was very expensive in January is becoming worthless will cause cities to lose a large part of there tax base.

In New York a guy I listened too in an interview said he is able to ride his bicycle on New York downtown streets which he could never do before the virus. Traffic is down that much. Yes the virus is not making a comeback in New York but neither is business.

New York used to get a lot of tourist no longer has a reason for anyone to go there. None of the plays on Broadway are open and there is very little intertainment of any type. Most better restaurants are not open and traffic levels are as of such they would not make any money if they did open. Most are likely to just close shop. Much of the retail space is not open neither because one left to buy anything.

Yes it could make a come back but it is not likely to happen any time soon and it will be very different then it was in January. 

In Houston they tried to open back up. There they are having a problem with the virus making a comeback and employees getting sick forcing the business to have to close down again. No lock down but still they can not open when most of the staff has covid-19
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 25, 2020, 12:38:21 AM
We are supposed to be mostly back open, certainly retail and takeaway food can open. But I went into central Manchester to do an errand yesterday and it was as you describe NY. Streets were quiet, foot flow was minimal, parking was a breeze. A lot of places are closed that need not be. Maybe they’re closed for good.

For some reason, the communistic local council have closed a section of Deansgate to cars. That makes no sense. The equivalent in NY would be closing half a mile of 5th Avenue.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 25, 2020, 01:35:30 AM
We are supposed to be mostly back open, certainly retail and takeaway food can open. But I went into central Manchester to do an errand yesterday and it was as you describe NY. Streets were quiet, foot flow was minimal, parking was a breeze. A lot of places are closed that need not be. Maybe they’re closed for good.

For some reason, the communistic local council have closed a section of Deansgate to cars. That makes no sense. The equivalent in NY would be closing half a mile of 5th Avenue.

I have not been there it see it but my understanding is not much open on 5th avenue.  No customers if anybody did open. A lot of the brokerage houses and other financial company are leaving New York city to have a number of smaller offices rather in many cities than one large office in New York. There may not be the money left in the city to support 5th avenue any more when all the big money jobs leave.  No body want their complete business shut down like it was in New York when the virus was at its worse. Most places did not suffer that sever of a shut down and they would still been able to operate if they were not in the New York City. 

I have seen pictures of the same thing in much of China's big cities. I was also reading the Ukraine business news and they are having a retail and office space problem also. Ukraine did well during the first part of the virus attack but now they have a growing problem when they are starting to open up again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 25, 2020, 02:11:49 AM
I had video call meetings yesterday with a couple of my colleagues sitting in the London office for the first time. I was surprised when they said the city felt really quiet. Up my way, we all seem to think England/London are going for it again.

It won't happen overnight but I agree, many business's won't see the same value in paying high rates & rent for prime real estate in the big cities anymore. Digital assets will be more key than ever and the virus will probably propel us further up the evolutionary road a bit quicker. When that happens, all the services that accommodate the footfall which is no longer there in the same numbers, will fall away too.

I'd imagine a fee leases will be getting re-negotiated as we speak.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 25, 2020, 04:45:38 AM
My son lives and works in NYC. In March his company went to home work. Before he biked every day from BedStuy to mid town. Before it was a challenge now it's easy peasy. His company was 50 employees now it is twelve. He goes to the physical office once a week. Before he worked 45 hours a week presently 16 hours.

Where he lived was the edge of a very hard hit neighborhood, Othodox Jewish. It is now very quiet. One fact though there was always a large migration away from NYC in the summer. Now it seems it is far more pronounced and obvious.

Will it come 'back' who knows, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 25, 2020, 05:38:02 AM
Oh Billy, it's not just maths that's a problem, it's language too. We'll, more accurately, it's an inability to follow a stream of thought.

But oh my god, you have confusion on confusion in your poor little head.
Where to begin?
Can I be bothered?

Lets give it a go. Never let it be said that I am not willing to help those less fortunate.

1) in simple maths, the number 3.9 is three times as large as 1.3.
2) in percentage terms the quantity 3.9 is 300% of the quantity 1.3
3) in English, in the word 'case' is commonly used as a synonym of 'example' the usage is clear from context. If unsure from context then ask.
4) assuming from the context of my writing that i was referring to a hypothetical patient zero (the first case) then the increase in percentage terms would still be 300% because the r0 is a function of the spread of the illness. The infection rate is independent of the absolute number of people who have been infected. The population of infectees will, on average, each be infecting 3.9 people with an r0 of 3.9 and 1.3 people with an r0 of 1.3. The ratio of larger to smaller is 3.

Please Billykins, assume that you're probably not the brightest person in the room. If you're unsure about something, don't jump in with invented stuff. Try asking questions. Mostly people will help, I am not perfect, but I try. That's why I try to help you by explaining stuff to you.

In my turn, I ask questions of others, I assume that my total knowledge is tiny and that there's always more to learn.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 25, 2020, 05:48:47 AM
Being dyslexic I really do not understand the 'language'.

I still can hear my math teacher observing me struggle and his saying out loud during a quiz; It's okay you can take your shoes and socks off.  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 25, 2020, 07:18:08 AM
SC has noticed that lots of properties in Europe (owned by Russians) have started appearing on Avito ( a gumtree 'equiv' in Russia )

They want to sell, or swap for a place in Sochi

I had my doubts as to their genuineness, but SC has talked to a lady from Moscow with a ( ostensibly ) passible apt overlooking the Black Sea in Bulgaria, land in Croatia and another apt in a small town SW of Barcelona..

Reasoning ? 

Cannot use it .. can't show funds to get a Schengen visa... Bulgaria is not a Schengen nation, but like Cyprus and Croatia will accept tourists with a Schengen visa.

Sign of the things to come ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 25, 2020, 08:55:30 AM
SC has noticed that lots of properties in Europe (owned by Russians) have started appearing on Avito ( a gumtree 'equiv' in Russia )

They want to sell, or swap for a place in Sochi

I had my doubts as to their genuineness, but SC has talked to a lady from Moscow with a ( ostensibly ) passible apt overlooking the Black Sea in Bulgaria, land in Croatia and another apt in a small town SW of Barcelona..

Reasoning ? 

Cannot use it .. can't show funds to get a Schengen visa... Bulgaria is not a Schengen nation, but like Cyprus and Croatia will accept tourists with a Schengen visa.

Sign of the things to come ?

I am sure it is a sign how the world will be change by this virus. We are now looking for what the new normal is going to be like. I think new York will recover to some extent but it will likely be a long and slow process maybe taking ten years. With the lost of tax base, it may get worse before it gets better. Very expensive multi-million dollars flats I can see crashing in value. No one will want to pay that to live there any more. It is possible that prestige New York had may never return.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 25, 2020, 10:15:56 AM
That claim by mystic seems a little odd.
1) Schengen visasa are irrelevant for people going to Cyprus and Bulgaria. They'd not apply for a Achengen visa to go to those places - unless they were doing the Moby thing and getting an inappropriate visa to use in a way that is contrary to the intended purpose.
2) If people own property in those places they also must pay taxes and will thus be on local tax and residency registers. There's no reason that they'd be refused a visa for lack of money - unless they are doing a Moby.

The witness according to moby's wife would not be able to own an apartment in Spain without being on the tax and population register. She will have a foreigners identity number NIE and she'd get a Schengen visa from Spain unless there was some other 'honesty problem'. With her Schengen visa she'd be perfectly able to use her visa to travel elsewhere.

There's an 'honesty problem' or understanding problem here.

My guess is that if this process is happening it has much, much more to do with Russian taxes.
 
A few years ago the German government decided to crack down on Germans buying overseas holiday homes with black money. There was a significant exodus of Germans from sunny bits of Spain and a lot of holiday homes were sold at distressed prices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 25, 2020, 12:01:09 PM
r1. 3 means that for every person who is infected 1.3 people will become infected from the first person.


You are correct here and that is a 130% increase.

R3. 9 means from that first infected, 3.9 people will be infected. That's 300% more than the first case.


It's 390% more than the FIRST case not 300%

1) in simple maths, the number 3.9 is three times as large as 1.3.


You are correct BUT 1.3 is not considered the first case which you previously based everything on. It's okay if you say you made an error, or even a typing error by one number. You're making yourself look silly by insisting you weren't wrong.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 25, 2020, 11:12:14 PM
That claim by mystic seems a little odd.
1) Schengen visasa are irrelevant for people going to Cyprus and Bulgaria.

Sighs, our 'expert' on visas and immigration strikes, again ..  Cyprus, Bulgaria and Croatia ( for example) are EU members requiring their own national visa ..BUT ... if one has a Schengen... 'Welcome'... no need to apply for a national visa

They'd not apply for a Achengen visa to go to those places - unless they were doing the Moby thing and getting an inappropriate visa to use in a way that is contrary to the intended purpose.

Moby has NEVER done this, despite some silly people suggesting otherwise and Moby NEVER having issues going to place where it is suggested.. he just constantly proves he knows the regulations and friends family are admitted to nations using his diligent research... something andrewfi doesn't do, before posting daft to prove same, time and time again..Provided they have a Schengen, folks with one CAN also visit 4 non Schengen EU nations.....

2) If people own property in those places they also must pay taxes and will thus be on local tax and residency registers. There's no reason that they'd be refused a visa for lack of money - unless they are doing a Moby.

 :ROFL:

Once AGAIN andrewfi, prostrates himself...  Example Cyprus temp. residency..

https://gk-lawfirm.com/practice-areas/immigration-law/cyprus-pink-slip-temporary-residence-permit/#:~:text=permit%20%E2%80%93%20Pink%20Slip-,Cyprus%20Pink%20Slip,duration%20of%20their%20initial%20visa. (https://gk-lawfirm.com/practice-areas/immigration-law/cyprus-pink-slip-temporary-residence-permit/#:~:text=permit%20%E2%80%93%20Pink%20Slip-,Cyprus%20Pink%20Slip,duration%20of%20their%20initial%20visa.)


Cyprus temporary residence permit, the so-called Pink Slip, allows Non-European Union passport holders to extend their stay in Cyprus for more than 3 months (90 days). It will also enable tourists and visitors to extend their stay no matter what was the duration of their initial visa. They should apply before their current visa expires.Pink Slip requirements
In order to be eligible for this type of permit, the applicant mainly needs to show:

adequate income from abroad to cover living expenses while residing in Cyprus (estimated about €15,000 – €20,000 for a three-member family)
either rented or bought a house or apartment



The witness according to moby's wife would not be able to own an apartment in Spain without being on the tax and population register. She will have a foreigners identity number NIE and she'd get a Schengen visa from Spain unless there was some other 'honesty problem'. With her Schengen visa she'd be perfectly able to use her visa to travel elsewhere.

There's an 'honesty problem' or understanding problem here.

My guess is that if this process is happening it has much, much more to do with Russian taxes.
 
A few years ago the German government decided to crack down on Germans buying overseas holiday homes with black money. There was a significant exodus of Germans from sunny bits of Spain and a lot of holiday homes were sold at distressed prices.

 :ROFL:

'honest' andrewfi is clearly one of those types this chap describes.. "Full of anonymous people who will likely confuse you with tons of contradictions.

You will be told that the Spanish NIE number is all you need."


What andrewfi should know is that a  Non-lucrative visa is required to get a residency permit in Spain ( non EU citizens and their non EU family members ) and one needs to prove income from overseas and no working in Spain . ( starts at c10k Euro annually  per single person)

Now, unless SC checks out some of these places, we will not actually know if the seller's reasons are true, but she has noted a lot more Russians offering places for sale.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on June 25, 2020, 11:55:04 PM

 I think this guy has just about had enough of this virus!    :chuckle:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 26, 2020, 02:07:50 AM
Moby, why did you post a whole load of words that demonstrate that I was correct while claiming the opposite?

Do you take a contrary position as a matter of course and then seek to 'prove' your point without checking what you post?

Do you just want to gainsay whatever anyone else writes with no consideration for the truth?

Are you unable to understand what you're reading, no matter the source?

It used to be entertaining in a car crash sort of a way, but you've gotten worse.

One begins to understand why a wife who cannot even understand you when you talk chose to absent herself from your company.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 26, 2020, 04:00:50 AM

 I think this guy has just about had enough of this virus!    :chuckle:


 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

He's got a point on many levels. I'm coming to the conclusion that whilst we obviously have a nasty, contagious virus doing the rounds, it still pretty much only takes those of us who are weak and old. Why not shield the weak and old then? That includes those close to them and they all get furloughed. The rest of us can crack on with social distancing and a slightly altered way of living.

In the meantime, the economy has bombed, business is tough/bust for many and millions will be unemployed, unable to pay their bills, careers wrecked, mental health problems, other more serious health issues ignored, marriages ruined and domestic abuse through the roof. Local to where we live, the hospitality trade has collapsed and thousands are looking for work of which there is none.

I'm not saying we carry on as normal but this lockdown was all about;

1) Avoiding saturating our health care capabilities

2) Buying time to work out what we're facing.

I go back to Sweden and say look at the stats. Yes people died but nearly all those people would have died from another virus or bug which would have done the rounds. In Sweden;

- Those under 40 have a 0.0006% chance of dying from Covid-19.

- Collectively, the Swedish population have a 0.048% chance of dying from Covid-19.

What are the odds of dying from other health problems? As the bloke says, you do the maths!! Some simpletons compare Swedish deaths to that of their neighbours, but at what cost? Only yesterday my wife was in tears after 13 weeks of lockdown saying she felt lonely, missing her friends and that her life was stalling. We're in a fortunate position so I can only image how those who aren't, are feeling today.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 26, 2020, 04:44:41 AM
Why not shield the weak and old then? That includes those close to them and they all get furloughed. The rest of us can crack on with social distancing and a slightly altered way of living.

'Coz as we saw with your choice, Sweden, those needing sheltering get infected more readily by those still  in circulation

In the meantime, the economy has bombed, business is tough/bust for many and millions will be unemployed, unable to pay their bills, careers wrecked, mental health problems, other more serious health issues ignored, marriages ruined and domestic abuse through the roof. Local to where we live, the hospitality trade has collapsed and thousands are looking for work of which there is none.

I'm not saying we carry on as normal but this lockdown was all about;

1) Avoiding saturating our health care capabilities

2) Buying time to work out what we're facing.

,
..and it is STILL clear, that when the foot is taken off the gas... we risk overwhelming the health care systems and killing the very workers we need ..

Note Rosco neglected to mention that those working in that sector die at a higher rate of the virus, as do bus drivers, underground train drivers ..

I go back to Sweden and say look at the stats. Yes people died but nearly all those people would have died from another virus or bug which would have done the rounds.

I think you've find the figure going around is folks have been having c.7 years of life taken from 'em - say 10 percent ..Are you 'happy' with that... 'coz I'm trying to ensure my Ma ( who took the time to give us a great life, gets pay back.. not a care home and a higher chance of death )


In Sweden;

- Those under 40 have a 0.0006% chance of dying from Covid-19.

- Collectively, the Swedish population have a 0.048% chance of dying from Covid-19.

Given 0.06% of Sweden's Population are already confirmed as dying from COVID-19 and the excess mortality rate might mean that figure is 50 percent more, it safe to diss your 'stat' ... based on a population of just over 10 million and just under six thousand conf deaths ... so c. 0.1 percent

What are the odds of dying from other health problems? As the bloke says, you do the maths!! Some simpletons compare Swedish deaths to that of their neighbours, but at what cost? Only yesterday my wife was in tears after 13 weeks of lockdown saying she felt lonely, missing her friends and that her life was stalling. We're in a fortunate position so I can only image how those who aren't, are feeling today.


Whilst I'm not dismissing the cost in mental health issues and you need to offer your wife a small crumb of comfort that there's lots of people in FAR worse situations that yours or mine, Sweden's excess mortality death rate suggests the 'cost' ..

Do you realise, we don't ever realise the extent of on-going health issues those who've survived are now reporting ?

 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 26, 2020, 12:59:45 PM
Quote
Researchers exploring the interaction between the coronavirus and its hosts have discovered that when the SARS-CoV-2 virus infects a human cell, it sets off a ghoulish transformation. Obeying instructions from the virus, the newly infected cell sprouts multi-pronged tentacles studded with viral particles.
These disfigured zombie cells appear to be using those streaming filaments, or filopodia, to reach still-healthy neighboring cells. The protuberances appear to bore into the cells’ bodies and inject their viral venom directly into those cells’ genetic command centers — thus creating another zombie.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/inside-body-coronavirus-even-more-150022628.html

Think of it like the 'Borg' a la Star Trek.  You are being assimilated.  Resistance is futile.   :chuckle: :evilgrin0002: :o :snivel: :sick0012:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 26, 2020, 04:45:18 PM

This is  group of chart that explains what is happening in the USA as far as infections and death rate. Some of the infection rate going up but the death rate declining of this is cause by more testing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-state-of-the-pandemic-in-nine-charts/ar-BB16126q?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 27, 2020, 12:17:38 AM
https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/25/revealed-draft-list-of-countries-that-will-be-allowed-to-enter-eu-when-borders-open (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/25/revealed-draft-list-of-countries-that-will-be-allowed-to-enter-eu-when-borders-open)

So Russians and Americans will NOT be allowed into the EU ( EEA nations, too ) - if this draft list is agreed..  ( hopefully, those with residency will be excluded) of SC and I are screwed !

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/25/revealed-draft-list-of-countries-that-will-be-allowed-to-enter-eu-when-borders-open (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/25/revealed-draft-list-of-countries-that-will-be-allowed-to-enter-eu-when-borders-open)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 27, 2020, 08:39:31 AM
Tale of a guy from Scotland who reckons he'd be dead if he'd been treated for COVID-19 in any other country .. he was in Vietnam ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53196009 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53196009)

Patient 91: How Vietnam saved a British pilot and kept a clean Covid-19 sheet
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 27, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
We are also having another problem with the virus in the USA. That is a increasing number of young white people who think the virus is a scam and will not social distance. Our death rate is down part because of more testing but also the average age of the person catching the virus is lower. The real true is they are still ending up in Hospitals and some in intensive care and others dying. But what they are doing also is committing murder to the older family members. This thing with Sweden is not real. They close to being shut down but it was just because people were able to follow the rules where here in the USA we do not have such a population. WE have too many people like Rocco who think the whole thing is a joke and then quote fake numbers. The truth is he has about a .6 per cent chance if he catches of dying it and he would have about 100 per cent chance of catching it if there was no social distancing. He has three time that number if want to count the chance of his health being permanently ruin to where he spends the rest of him life on dialysis or other major complication from the virus. The percent is much higher if you want to count his chances of killing family members which he does not seem to care about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 27, 2020, 10:02:17 AM
Not sure if rosco has elderly family in his immediate circle. Though I can respect that ms is caring for his mom. More so while his partner (wife) is in Russia.

The mistake of Sweden was not putting the vulnerable (elderly) in a tight lockdown.

Another observation is that listening to the radio yesterday and in some posts I have noticed that there is confusion regarding social distancing, a so-called lockdown and being in/under quarantine. They are all different things or actions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on June 27, 2020, 10:34:58 AM
My American friends,
While you are still struggling for recovery from the Wuhan virus, please also watch news from insiders of USA and prepare for the coming fierce struggle against the insane ChiNazi attack.

Thanks for your help for the past year.  We will together make NyLonKong great again!!!


Manipulating USA: The China Communist Playbook
https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29044.msg513346.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on June 27, 2020, 10:37:48 AM
We are also having another problem with the virus in the USA. That is a increasing number of young white people who think the virus is a scam and will not social distance. Our death rate is down part because of more testing but also the average age of the person catching the virus is lower. The real true is they are still ending up in Hospitals and some in intensive care and others dying. But what they are doing also is committing murder to the older family members. This thing with Sweden is not real. They close to being shut down but it was just because people were able to follow the rules where here in the USA we do not have such a population. WE have too many people like Rocco who think the whole thing is a joke and then quote fake numbers. The truth is he has about a .6 per cent chance if he catches of dying it and he would have about 100 per cent chance of catching it if there was no social distancing. He has three time that number if want to count the chance of his health being permanently ruin to where he spends the rest of him life on dialysis or other major complication from the virus. The percent is much higher if you want to count his chances of killing family members which he does not seem to care about.


Texan,
There is no other option to persuade them.  When they suffer, they will know the truth.
Suffering is Believing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 27, 2020, 10:44:30 AM

This is  group of chart that explains what is happening in the USA as far as infections and death rate. Some of the infection rate going up but the death rate declining of this is cause by more testing.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-state-of-the-pandemic-in-nine-charts/ar-BB16126q?li=BBnb7Kz

Nope, you're confused.
1) the average age of people getting infected in the USA is falling even as the rate of infection has claimed to new highs.
2) Fewer young people than old people die from Covid-19.
3) Because the death rate for younger people is lower than for older people the number of people dying overall is still falling.
4) There is a lag of several weeks between infection and death.
5) Because the infection rate increase is relatively new we are not yet seeing the deaths from that increase - yet.

Yes, it is true that testing more people will uncover more cases, but the telling point is that the ratio of infected to tests is rising. This means that the disease is not under control.

The number of people tested has no effect on the number of people who die. The death rate from Covid-19 is not changing significantly. Death rate and the number of people who die each day are not the same thing. Death rate is a ratio. The number of people who die is an absolute number.

And yes, I know that you copied the words from the linked article.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 27, 2020, 01:23:08 PM

If you count the number of confirmed infections then divide by the number of deaths and calling that the death rate, then the death rate then the decline when you tested more because you find cases that other wise would of gone unnoticed but you still have the same number of deaths. The problem is people are looking at the total population and counting the number of people who died and calling that the death rate. The problem with this it does not take into the account whet the death rate would been of there was no social distancing. It is best numbers on  military base or ship where the population is controlled and everyone is accounted for and tested. Only then do you get a real number.

In Rocco number there are two mistakes. The first he converted calling it a per cent not subtracting two zeros that could not of been. Then he is counting in a population where only 1 per cent of the people get the disease adding two more zeros. The death rate of people who catch the disease is about 1 per cent. Younger people do a little better. Still they get sick and die. Look at Boris Johnson came close.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 27, 2020, 03:14:26 PM

Nope, you're confused.
1) the average age of people getting infected in the USA is falling even as the rate of infection has claimed to new highs.

You show me your 'stats' and I'll show you mine..you may very well be the 'confused one'..again
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2020, 05:24:52 PM
My American friends,
While you are still struggling for recovery from the Wuhan virus,


We aren't suffering from the virus since none of our hospitals are overloaded. The curve will remain around flat for a long time before going down. We are a nation of 50 nations. Some States like NY and NJ already peaked and are at the bottom of their curve while other States haven't peaked yet. But at this moment there are no fires to put out like the one NY had.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 27, 2020, 06:01:16 PM
In Houston they are not over loaded but we are full but have not peaked yet and should not for some time. The most of out virus cases are the 18 to 35 year old. When you get enough of them they still end up in Hospitals. Today they asking people to lock down voluntary to stay safe. By the 1st of August Houston might be another New York. Now they are claiming they ended the lock down too soon for cities.

A lot of New York is still not completely opened. They opened hair salons yesterday. The one I was looking at charges 1000 dollars for a hair cut. It was booked full until September. So there is a little life in the economy there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2020, 10:23:14 PM
By the 1st of August Houston might be another New York.


Hopefully that will not be the case. 1 out of every 350 people died in NYC in a matter of months. We have a better understanding how dangerous the virus is and how it exponentially spreads so we can respond with shut downs at appropriate times. There's no excuse for another city to be the next NYC.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 28, 2020, 06:14:04 AM
By the 1st of August Houston might be another New York.


Hopefully that will not be the case. 1 out of every 350 people died in NYC in a matter of months. We have a better understanding how dangerous the virus is and how it exponentially spreads so we can respond with shut downs at appropriate times. There's no excuse for another city to be the next NYC.

First Houston had groups that came from New Orleans and settled into our poorer areas so right off the bat Houston led the state in number of cases. Then Houston had mostly peaceful protest. Then Houston has churches. Then Houston has a part of the population that do not believe the disease is dangerous and lock downs are not needed like some of the people on this site. It is all adding up to a disaster.  This morning 36 states are showing an increase in number of cases this week. Some of it can be said it is because of more testing but still the percentage of positive test is edging up wards also. 

I do not so much blame government as I do stupid people. There is a lot of anti lock down propaganda out there and they have a large following. There seem to be a lot of people who want to believe the virus is a fake problem and by into the propaganda. This is really true for the age group 18 to 35 years old.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 28, 2020, 10:34:32 AM
I do not so much blame government as I do stupid people. There is a lot of anti lock down propaganda out there and they have a large following. There seem to be a lot of people who want to believe the virus is a fake problem and by into the propaganda. This is really true for the age group 18 to 35 years old.


Those people are stupid, ignorant or both. Most people on earth haven't lived in an area where the virus got out of control like it did in some cities in Italy and NYC where 1 out of every 350 people died so they don't think it's bad because they haven't experienced what it can do. If no further action was taken, by the end of the year 1 out of every 50 people in NYC could be dead. Also, the survivors may experience organ damage that will cut back on their expected life spans.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 28, 2020, 01:28:17 PM
WE have too many people like Rocco who think the whole thing is a joke and then quote fake numbers.

I’m not sure if you’re referring to me but I can’t be more clear and obvious when I say;

1) I’ve never said or thought that “this whole thing was a joke”. Perhaps you could explain how you managed to come to that conclusion? I said there was some interesting reading to be done when you ease yourself away from the headlines & dig through the numbers.

2) I assume the “fake numbers” you’re referring to are the official statistics from Sweden, which I  quoted and linked in my initial post. I understand some won’t manage to digest or deal with the facts but suggesting the numbers are fake, is outright lies.

If Rocco is me, then you might want to make yourself a coffee and find a comfy seat before re-reading & fully understanding my post. Your quote above saddens and confuses me somewhat.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on June 28, 2020, 01:56:30 PM
I do not so much blame government as I do stupid people. There is a lot of anti lock down propaganda out there and they have a large following. There seem to be a lot of people who want to believe the virus is a fake problem and by into the propaganda. This is really true for the age group 18 to 35 years old.


Those people are stupid, ignorant or both. Most people on earth haven't lived in an area where the virus got out of control like it did in some cities in Italy and NYC where 1 out of every 350 people died so they don't think it's bad because they haven't experienced what it can do. If no further action was taken, by the end of the year 1 out of every 50 people in NYC could be dead. Also, the survivors may experience organ damage that will cut back on their expected life spans.

Some recent riots in USA were actually organised by Mandarin speaking people (China Commies?!?) :

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 28, 2020, 04:50:08 PM


2) I assume the "fake numbers" you're referring to are the official statistics from Sweden, which I  quoted and linked in my initial post. I understand some won't manage to digest or deal with the facts but suggesting the numbers are fake, is outright lies.

Rosco, as already pointed out ..your 'stats'.. like the UK ones ... are out by a factor of up to 50 percent, based on excess death comparisons.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 28, 2020, 04:59:54 PM
The UK reported just 100 deaths on Saturday (source Sunday Express).

Boris has decreed all children will go back to school by September. Our daughter goes back in a week.

The vast majority of retail and hospitality that isn’t open already can open next week. Travel is starting to open (quite rightly not to the US).

I think it’s safe to assume the virus has almost gone from the UK.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 28, 2020, 06:30:58 PM
The UK reported just 100 deaths on Saturday (source Sunday Express).

Boris has decreed all children will go back to school by September. Our daughter goes back in a week.

The vast majority of retail and hospitality that isn’t open already can open next week. Travel is starting to open (quite rightly not to the US).

I think it’s safe to assume the virus has almost gone from the UK.

LONDON (AP) — Britain’s government is considering a lockdown for the central English city of Leicester amid a spike of COVID-19 cases — the first time that a single U.K. area would face such an extreme measure during the pandemic.
 
The Sunday Times first reported that a lockdown could come within days after 658 new cases were recorded in the Leicester area in two weeks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 28, 2020, 10:58:32 PM
The UK reported just 100 deaths on Saturday (source Sunday Express).

Boris has decreed all children will go back to school by September. Our daughter goes back in a week.

The vast majority of retail and hospitality that isn’t open already can open next week. Travel is starting to open (quite rightly not to the US).

I think it’s safe to assume the virus has almost gone from the UK.

It's safe to assume you aren't aware what's going on around you.. given an uptick in new cases

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 28, 2020, 11:34:29 PM
andrewfi chose to ignore my invitation to show me his stats, and 'informed' us all that deaths from COVID-19 in the US were 'still falling' ..

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=USA)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 28, 2020, 11:37:04 PM
The UK reported just 100 deaths on Saturday (source Sunday Express).

Boris has decreed all children will go back to school by September. Our daughter goes back in a week.

The vast majority of retail and hospitality that isn't open already can open next week. Travel is starting to open (quite rightly not to the US).

I think it's safe to assume the virus has almost gone from the UK.

LONDON (AP) %u2014 Britain's government is considering a lockdown for the central English city of Leicester amid a spike of COVID-19 cases %u2014 the first time that a single U.K. area would face such an extreme measure during the pandemic.
 
The Sunday Times first reported that a lockdown could come within days after 658 new cases were recorded in the Leicester area in two weeks.

Leicester is a place with a very high Muslim population. It's always been higher in Muslim areas for a variety of lifestyle reasons.

It's safe to assume you aren't aware what's going on around you.. given an uptick in new cases

Sure.  (:)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8467995/Coronavirus-UK-confirms-Sunday-death-toll.html

Tell the media you know better.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 28, 2020, 11:44:59 PM
You post something akin to a Govt , " look aren't we doing well?" and totally ignore upticks and warning from scientists that we are relaxing ruls too fast.

Is Angelsey high in 'Muslims' ?

Leicester has a 2 percent eth. Pakistani  'Muslim' population ..it's got a v.high percentage of folk of Indian extraction  ( 25% ) ..You confuse the colour of people's skin with religious beliefs ?

Your ignorance is breath-taking


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 29, 2020, 12:07:11 AM
You post something akin to a Govt , " look aren't we doing well?" and totally ignore upticks and warning from scientists that we are relaxing ruls too fast.

Is Angelsey high in 'Muslims' ?

Leicester has a 2 percent eth. Pakistani  'Muslim' population ..it's got a v.high percentage of folk of Indian extraction  ( 25% ) ..You confuse the colour of people's skin with religious beliefs ?

Your ignorance is breath-taking

Are you drunk in the mornings now?

Nobody mentioned Anglesey.

Muslims are 20% of Leicester: https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/proportion-muslims-living-leicester-rises-184235

Hush, fool.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on June 29, 2020, 12:43:47 AM
moby pulling numbers outta his arse again  :'(. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 29, 2020, 01:18:27 AM
My apologies for not including my links :

http://hummedia.manchester.ac.uk/institutes/code/briefings/localdynamicsofdiversity/geographies-of-diversity-in-leicestershire.pdf

Leicester: White British, 45%,  Eth Indians 28% .. Eth Pakistanis 2% ...now, I understand being indian, one may be Hindu, Sikh, Christian or 'Muslim'..

I mentioned Angelsey as it was close to being locked down https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53134766 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53134766)..It is 'well known' that it has a high proportion of 'Muslims'....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 29, 2020, 04:18:03 AM
Leicester: White British, 45%,  Eth Indians 28% .. Eth Pakistanis 2% ...now, I understand being indian, one may be Hindu, Sikh, Christian or 'Muslim'..
Ah so manny quotes an actual source with actual numbers of muslims and your counter is a vague PDF on nationalities that nowhere lists their beliefs. Yet you try and reason beliefs of those people from their nationality.. Whos the ignorant here I keep asking myself.

And bout your 'muslim' :

Muslim Population in India

Muslims in India - With over 207 million followers (2020), Islam is the second-largest religion in India after Hinduism.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on June 29, 2020, 04:25:34 AM
..You confuse the colour of people's skin with religious beliefs ?



You just did that with your PDF.  :'( :'( It only takes about ethnicities NOT religion.  Stop making assumptions you ASS. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 29, 2020, 04:52:39 AM
andrewfi chose to ignore my invitation to show me his stats, and 'informed' us all that deaths from COVID-19 in the US were 'still falling' ..

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=USA (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=USA)

Moby, I have have no need to respond to the 'invitations' of a turd.
However, go back and look at the chart you linked to support your point. Go and ask someone with the ability to think clearly - your mum perhaps - and ask her what's unusual about the chart on that page. ;)

Then report back to us with what you have learned.

Dumb and dishonest. The worst of all cases. If you were a little more smart then you'd know that a man like you needs to be honest.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 29, 2020, 04:56:36 AM


2) I assume the "fake numbers" you’re referring to are the official statistics from Sweden, which I  quoted and linked in my initial post. I understand some won’t manage to digest or deal with the facts but suggesting the numbers are fake, is outright lies.

Rosco, as already pointed out ..your 'stats'.. like the UK ones ... are out by a factor of up to 50 percent, based on excess death comparisons.

Can you please post the link for that, from a reliable and neutral source? The official stats I find, all back up my numbers. Also, would 50% out mean potentially 50% lower?

For each article I read about under reported deaths, there is another which points out that many deaths have been attributed to covid but not caused by it, thereby over reporting it. I'm sure you'll agree that this makes it very hard for anyone to be 100% accurate with the data so I'm not gong to start debating non-facts.

However lets assume there are 50% more deaths in Sweden, than being reported, for the sake of it. The point I was making and the percentages don't change enough to make it any less true. 10,000 deaths from 10.23 million people and most of it in the 70+ range is tiny. It also suggests that a large proportion of younger people taking precautions, don't need locked down and the economy doesn't need to be destroyed and saddled with unnecessary debt. Yet its clear more should have been done to shield the vulnerable.

From the BBC none the less, a journalist made a short video discussing Sweden. She confirms my point regarding the age groups but I disagree with her saying "the numbers are really high", in context maybe but in true numbers its tiny. We're talking about 5,000 people from 10.23 million or 0.048% of the population over 4 months. Really high would be maybe 2/3% so she's either being a bit silly or looking to create enough drama to be relevant.

I'm not celebrating Swedens strategy but right now its difficult to say, looking at the big picture, that they got it wrong compared with UK or Spain. I'm merely pointing out the obvious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-52757471/coronavirus-per-capita-death-rate-in-sweden-very-high

* I answered you here because I'm happy to engage civil discussion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 29, 2020, 05:28:51 AM
My goodness,

Monday seems to bring out the worst in some folks understanding of FACT:


Ah so manny quotes an actual source with actual numbers of muslims and your counter is a vague PDF on nationalities that nowhere lists their beliefs. Yet you try and reason beliefs of those people from their nationality.. Whos the ignorant here I keep asking myself.

And bout your 'muslim' :

Muslim Population in India

Muslims in India - With over 207 million followers (2020), Islam is the second-largest religion in India after Hinduism.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_India)

c.80 percent Hindu, 14% percent 'Muslim' ...


Have you been to India or Leicester, recently ? 


I looked and found another study that suggests Leicester: Christian 32.4%,  18.6 'Muslim', Hindu 15.2% with 22.8% stating they have no religious orientation.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/leicester-population/

Manny's stats were nonsense ..  it suggested Muslims were more likely to get/ spread the virus ..pure ignorance ..


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 29, 2020, 05:48:35 AM

Moby, I have have no need to respond to the 'invitations' of a turd.

[snip]

It is noted you chose not to offer ANY 'evidence' to support your assertion ...

Can you please post the link for that, from a reliable and neutral source? The official stats I find, all back up my numbers. Also, would 50% out mean potentially 50% lower?

Don't be obtuse, Rosco ... the official excess death rates for Sweden proved my point... unless even more Swedes are committing suicide ...

I spelt it out ( v.clearly) using official Swedish stats to demonstrate the true figures..The UK was underreporting by  nearly 50% at one point

Given their occupying the top spot of civilised western nations re 7 day ave death rates for nearly a month, ( June 9th)  it's not 'difficult' - at all.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 29, 2020, 07:32:22 AM
The trouble with this virus is it just does not end. Chine gets the number of cases to zero and only for a short while before they get hot spots again. Korea keeps case near zero only to once again have break outs. Here Australia having nearly no cases is now seeing an increase.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-sees-biggest-daily-rise-in-covid-19-cases-in-two-months/ar-BB164Wr0

In UK I see pictures of thousands of people on beaches. Florida was doing that in May. It did not turn out well there. I hope you guys in UK do better.

The real problem here is when the bars and night clubs opened up that ended any remaining thoughts we were in recovery mode. South Korea also can not open up bars and night clubs even at their rate of infection which is as near zero as it gets with out a real problem. This virus will continue to dog economies until their is a vaccine.

The idea the virus will go just away is not happening.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on June 29, 2020, 11:01:08 AM
I do not so much blame government as I do stupid people. There is a lot of anti lock down propaganda out there and they have a large following. There seem to be a lot of people who want to believe the virus is a fake problem and by into the propaganda. This is really true for the age group 18 to 35 years old.


Those people are stupid, ignorant or both. Most people on earth haven't lived in an area where the virus got out of control like it did in some cities in Italy and NYC where 1 out of every 350 people died so they don't think it's bad because they haven't experienced what it can do. If no further action was taken, by the end of the year 1 out of every 50 people in NYC could be dead. Also, the survivors may experience organ damage that will cut back on their expected life spans.

Some recent riots in USA were actually organised by Mandarin speaking people (China Commies?!?) :


The CCP Red Chinese Communists would never try to introduce a hybrid SARS HIV bioweapon to wipe out millions of Americans and weaken us in preparation of a Mandarin lead invasion now... Would they?????
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 29, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Manny's stats were nonsense ..  it suggested Muslims were more likely to get/ spread the virus ..pure ignorance ..

Muslims ignore social distancing, live loads to a house and all pray together in groups with their arses in the air. Why do you think all the high Muslim population areas like the rough bits of London and Birmingham, Blackburn. Rochdale, etc. all showed high infection? Everyone knows this. When you wipe your arse with your left hand it isnt terribly conducive to stopping disease spreading.

Have you been to India or Leicester, recently ? 

Are you trolling for the sake of it? This is Leicester.

(https://i2-prod.leicestermercury.co.uk/incoming/article870698.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/PI_001-03-12-17-087JPG.jpg)

'It shows the way Leicester is' - Muslims gather to celebrate Prophet Muhammed's birthday (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/it-shows-way-leicester-is-870474)

Anyone who has been to Leicester knows much of it looks like downtown Islamabad. Why must people like you fall over themselves to be a Muslim apologist and lie your arse off making claims that are demonstrably untrue?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 29, 2020, 12:14:04 PM


Muslims ignore social distancing

 :ROFL:

Your generalisation know no bounds ..

Here's c. 500k 'Muslim's' ( mostly white English COVIDiots) on the 25th June ...


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 29, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Mystic, be honest. Go look at the link you provided. If you need help, ask somebody who is able to read for help.

You are not smart enough to get away with being lazy and dishonest.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 29, 2020, 12:56:38 PM
Can you please post the link for that, from a reliable and neutral source? The official stats I find, all back up my numbers. Also, would 50% out mean potentially 50% lower?

Don't be obtuse, Rosco ... the official excess death rates for Sweden proved my point... unless even more Swedes are committing suicide ...

I spelt it out ( v.clearly) using official Swedish stats to demonstrate the true figures..The UK was underreporting by  nearly 50% at one point

Given their occupying the top spot of civilised western nations re 7 day ave death rates for nearly a month, ( June 9th)  it's not 'difficult' - at all.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA

This is where our conversation runs out of road Moby. You spelt out nothing and your link changes nothing. It’s not even useful in this conversation, assuming you’re having the same conversation the rest of us are.

You claimed that there are more deaths of Covid than the official stats given for Sweden by statists.com and it may be by up to an extra 50%. I’ve asked you to quote me sources so we can talk about it. You have nothing but emotion.

Show me where I am wrong and tell me how the source is wrong, otherwise it’s simply you deflecting from my main point yet again.

My stats come from here; https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

Click on the link and soak up the data, it’ll help you understand what I’m saying. Anything else is just more Moby claims and silly arguments, of which I’ve made it clear I’ll not partake.

*My point is not about the accuracy of the figures to a few %, it’s about the data and trends within the figures. Any debate about a variance of a few % either side of of the death rates, is a waste of e ink and completely unrelated to my initial post. Stop deflecting.

*Any provocative replies or trolling will be ignored.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 29, 2020, 01:19:18 PM
Rosco,

Your source does not ( like the UK figures ) take into account the telling excess mortality figures ..

I know you don't like to be proven mistaken, so I'll give you a chance ( if permitted ) to explain to us what these Swedes are dying from ( nearly up to  50 percent up on the average over many years over many weeks )

Hence, I KNOW you're being deliberately obtuse to avoid what Tex and I have been pointing out to you ..

Once again, I'm using a right of centre UK journal, to stop you suggesting 'bias'

https://www.ft.com/content/7ecd5ded-9b90-4052-b849-0e153f701e1f

Note the graph ..check out Norway and Denmark, Sweden's neighbours

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 29, 2020, 04:22:57 PM
Rosco,

Your source does not ( like the UK figures ) take into account the telling excess mortality figures ..

I know you don't like to be proven mistaken, so I'll give you a chance ( if permitted ) to explain to us what these Swedes are dying from ( nearly up to  50 percent up on the average over many years over many weeks )

Hence, I KNOW you're being deliberately obtuse to avoid what Tex and I have been pointing out to you ..

Once again, I'm using a right of centre UK journal, to stop you suggesting 'bias'

https://www.ft.com/content/7ecd5ded-9b90-4052-b849-0e153f701e1f

Note the graph ..check out Norway and Denmark, Sweden's neighbours

Moby,

You’ve still not grasped what it is I’m even talking about and I feel that you’re losing site of the discussion. However, I did some research and found that Sweden may have up to 30% excess deaths. Let’s pretend it’s all covid to satisfy your obsession.

Crunching the new numbers (4.5k + 30% at the time of calculation) and applying that to what I originally posted, doesn’t change anything at all. It’s negligible and still points to the same conclusion.

Why are we even debating your excess death figures, when you should be addressing the main point of my post - the data trend within the figures and how it can be used to determine best ways of handling the pandemic.

Please stay on topic because you’re trying to argue about something I’m not discussing. You may we’ll be correct in the adjustment but it doesn’t change the outcome or address my point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 29, 2020, 04:33:04 PM
Interestingly the link Moby dropped into his post suggests that care homes were responsible for a large number of Covid deaths in Sweden. Not too dissimilar to other country’s I may add.

If that’s the case, it only serves to strengthen my point regarding the young & the healthy being pretty safe & justifies Sweden’s decision to stay open for business. If they had managed to protect the care homes & the end of lifers in it, along with others in a similar position, Sweden’s death rate combined with their social structure & economy which have remained in decent shape, makes our western lockdown strategies look terrible.

https://www.ft.com/content/7ecd5ded-9b90-4052-b849-0e153f701e1f
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 29, 2020, 05:44:18 PM
Quote
"We all want this to be over, we all want to get on with our lives, but the hard reality is this is not even close to being over," Tedros said. "Although many countries have made some progress, globally, the pandemic is actually speeding up."

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-coronavirus-pandemic-is-actually-speeding-up-due-to-inaction-2020-6

 :bow: :biggrin: :duh: :trainwreck: :HOSPITAL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 29, 2020, 06:50:12 PM
The virus is muting. It's much more infectious than the first that jumped to humans. That means there's reduced chance of this virus dying out on it's own. Let's hope the next mutation doesn't make it more lethal. The more humans(petri dishes) the virus infects, the greater the chances for mutating again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/world-s-dominant-strain-of-coronavirus-is-10-times-more-infectious-than-the-one-that-jumped-to-humans-in-china-because-it-mutated-so-its-vital-spike-protein-doesn-t-snap-as-often-in-the-body-scientists-say/ar-BB167e7l?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 29, 2020, 10:57:38 PM


Moby,

You’ve still not grasped what it is I’m even talking about and I feel that you’re losing site of the discussion. However, I did some research and found that Sweden may have up to 30% excess deaths. Let’s pretend it’s all covid to satisfy your obsession.

Rosco, the figures are all upthread.. the arithmetic was done for you ..the excess mortality rate has been up to up to FIFTY PERCENT


Please stay on topic because you’re trying to argue about something I’m not discussing. You may we’ll be correct in the adjustment but it doesn’t change the outcome or address my point.

Rosco,

you are simply trying to avoid the data that proves ten times more Swedes are dying than in neighbouring Finland and Norway - who locked down
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 29, 2020, 11:54:47 PM
Quote
A mutated version of the coronavirus that has gripped Europe and the West is more infectious because it doesn't break as often while inside the body, a study has found.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/worlds-dominant-strain-of-coronavirus-is-10-times-more-infectious-than-the-one-that-jumped-to-humans-in-china-because-it-mutated-so-its-vital-spike-protein-doesnt-snap-as-often-in-the-body-scientists-say/ar-BB167e7l

This may explain why more have died in Europe and eastern USA than from the Pacific side.  Multiple versions being spread around and some regions got the bigger "losing number" version.   :( (:) :evilgrin0002: :sick0012: :snivel:

Quote
The researchers are concerned that it could mutate further so that it can spread easily from person to person, and trigger a global outbreak.
They say it has "all the hallmarks" of being highly adapted to infect humans - and needs close monitoring.

As it's new, people could have little or no immunity to the virus.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/flu-virus-with-pandemic-potential-found-in-china/ar-BB167fvB

Here we go again.  Remember that you are what you eat.   :chuckle: (:) :P :whist11:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 30, 2020, 03:52:02 AM


Moby,

You’ve still not grasped what it is I’m even talking about and I feel that you’re losing site of the discussion. However, I did some research and found that Sweden may have up to 30% excess deaths. Let’s pretend it’s all covid to satisfy your obsession.

Rosco, the figures are all upthread.. the arithmetic was done for you ..the excess mortality rate has been up to up to FIFTY PERCENT


Why must I waste time correcting you? Next you'll tell me that their figures are wrong and you are right?? From their headline;

"Contrary to public official’s statements, there is an excess mortality of 30% in Sweden as a whole"

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/06/11/contrary-to-public-officials-statements-there-is-an-excess-mortality-of-30-in-sweden-as-a-whole/#.XvsCyS2ZNBw

Please stay on topic because you’re trying to argue about something I’m not discussing. You may we’ll be correct in the adjustment but it doesn’t change the outcome or address my point.

Rosco,

you are simply trying to avoid the data that proves ten times more Swedes are dying than in neighbouring Finland and Norway - who locked down

This is your last chance. I am not avoiding what you think I am. In fact I'm not even discussing what you think I am. I've accepted that there may be an excess death rate but even then it changes nothing from my original point which was;

Sweden has been a great test case, for the lock down country's to analyse and compare data, giving us a better chance of tweaking our approach to handling the next viral pandemic.

Also, the numbers show that in a society which has largely continued as normal, people under the age of 40 have an 0.006% chance of dying from covid-19 and 70+ account for 96% of all deaths. This is quite telling and the data could be used to look at how we survive the next virus both socially and economically, making it worthy of a discussion, to implement a selected lockdown given the Swedish data.


Moby,

Tell me you now see, that what you're rattling on about is something completely unrelated and only serves to derail a discussion and frustrate? Tell me you now understand that even an excess death rate doesn't change the age at which people die? Tell me you understand that Norway & Denmarks death rates are completely unrelated to Swedens death by age group data? Please tell me you understand that now?

I don't know if you cant understand the conversation we're having or if you're purposely trying to lead me down another path to try and win the conversation but its a compete waste of my time. Posting 7 day rolling average death rates, comparing it with their neighbours doesn't advance this conversation one bit. It's a separate discussion altogether Moby.

Either come back and discuss the content of my post or walk away and waste someone else time. This is why I recently disengaged you, look at how much time I'm having to waste to spell stuff out. Chances are you're not equipped to be humble enough and admit you failed to read or understand my post and decided to try and 'beat' me with a tangent conversation.

It's like discussing lemon meringue pie recipes and you turn up talking about the problems with cheese burgers! It can't continue Moby, we all get off track every now and again but you're relentless and I bet you still come back to argue the toss. Just put your hand up and lets move on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 30, 2020, 04:13:35 AM

Rosco,

you are simply trying to avoid the data that proves ten times more Swedes are dying than in neighbouring Finland and Norway - who locked down

Ok lets discuss your point here, which is completely different to the one I'm making.

I agree, Swedens covid death figures are much higher than those in neighbouring countries who did lockdown, there's no disputing that. However, I still believe that we cant be so naive and simply look at the total number of deaths for each country and list them in an absolute ranking of who did it best through to worst. Emotionally you can but analytically you cant.

There are far too many variables including population density, median age, quality of health care, culture and most importantly how they report and count covid deaths. I know for a fact every country doesn't report in the same way thus making it impossible to compare apples with apples. I doubt Belgium is truly worse than Pakistan or some poor African country for example.

Another obvious one is how well a country was able protect their care homes, the sick and the elderly. Both the Uk and Sweden for example, would fair much better had they both managed to shield these individuals. As we know in both, covid ripped through them like wildfire and those people are in the highest risk category. Throw in the gravely ill or people with multiple complications and you have the majority of your deaths.

I agree with your data but this then leads onto the point I'm making which you misread/misunderstood above. If this were to happen again, we need to use this pandemic to fine tune how we handle the next, which may just involve a variable lockdown depending on a number of factors. I'm not saying how to do it but I am saying that some kind of hybrid will get you through it better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 30, 2020, 04:26:25 AM


Why must I waste time correcting you? Next you'll tell me that their figures are wrong and you are right?? From their headline;

"Contrary to public official’s statements, there is an excess mortality of 30% in Sweden as a whole"

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/06/11/contrary-to-public-officials-statements-there-is-an-excess-mortality-of-30-in-sweden-as-a-whole/#.XvsCyS2ZNBw
Sighs

The date re excess mortality I've posted was from ... the Swedish govt ..


Sweden has been a great test case, for the lock down country's to analyse and compare data, giving us a better chance of tweaking our approach to handling the next viral pandemic.

How not to handle it, yes ..

Also, the numbers show that in a society which has largely continued as normal, people under the age of 40 have an 0.006% chance of dying from covid-19 and 70+ account for 96% of all deaths. This is quite telling and the data could be used to look at how we survive the next virus both socially and economically, making it worthy of a discussion, to implement a selected lockdown given the Swedish data.

Sighs,

Once again, those number were compared by myself and Tex and they didn't add up ... yet here you are repeating nonsense.

1/ Sweden is on a red list

2/ Polls show that Swedes are rapidly losing faith in the government's strategy, with confidence in politicians and the public health body collapsing.

In a survey this week, just 38 per cent said they approved of the government's actions during the pandemic, versus 50 per cent in May.

source: DM https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8462727/The-world-went-crazy-lockdowns-says-Swedens-coronavirus-expert.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 30, 2020, 08:23:30 AM
Sweden is a small country where most people followed the guild lines. Why don't we talk about Brazil where the president did not want to have a lock down? Lots of local lock downs but none country wide.  Hospitals over run. Mass graves. Official number much less than reality.

Then USA …  lock down ends and they whole thing falls apart.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on June 30, 2020, 09:30:50 AM
Sweden is a small country where most people followed the guild lines. Why don't we talk about Brazil where the president did not want to have a lock down? Lots of local lock downs but none country wide.  Hospitals over run. Mass graves. Official number much less than reality.

Then USA …  lock down ends and they whole thing falls apart.

Thank you for confirming my point Tex. I wrote above that it would be overly simplistic to simply use number of deaths as the barometer. As you’ve quite correctly pointed out, Brazil is nothing like Sweden.

Brazil’s death figure however, don’t discount the discussion we should be having during the post mortem. In future, the same hybrid strategy for a Northern European country with a high standard of living and good infrastructure is unlikely to work for a South American country suffering mass poverty & a completely different social culture.

Do you understand what I’m getting at Tex? We don’t have the answers yet & the solutions won’t come in a one size fits all. Equally, locking ourselves in our houses en masse to hide from a virus and tanking our economy every time a viral pandemic comes along would be utterly ridiculous.

There needs to be apolitical, non emotive, fact based discussions and analysis carried out so we can cope better with any future viral pandemics. Pointing fingers at governments we don’t like or aligning ourselves emotionally with a single strategy is madness.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on June 30, 2020, 11:27:16 AM
Quote
Last week President Trump discounted the risks COVID-19 poses to young people, saying that increased testing was inflating the numbers of the disease among “young people that don’t have a problem.”
“To think young people have no deleterious consequences is not true. We’re seeing more and more complications in young people,” Fauci said, adding that “some get mild symptoms and some get symptoms enough to put them at home for a few days. Some are in bed for weeks and have symptoms even after they recover, others go to the hospital, some require oxygen, some require intensive care, some get intubated and some die.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/as-coronavirus-spreads-to-people-under-40-its-making-them-sicker-and-for-longer-than-once-thought-235006459.html

So, the young don't have anything to worry about regarding the virus?     The real problem is that not enough of them are DYING to be concerned about it.    :GRAVE: :'( :dh: :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on June 30, 2020, 04:40:52 PM
I did think all this virus shit may effect property prices in Russia short term.. just a couple of weeks back they knocked our new place prices down about $2000 .. But hey presto 1st July prices are already recovered back to normal so still on track to make a nice profit...I had a feeling it would be short lived.. but not so short..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 30, 2020, 05:10:56 PM
Months ago, before the USA and its 'allies' decided the Chinese were the enemies du jour, commentators were quite happy to note how effective the Chinese were proving to be at clamping down on the spread of covid-19. A point that was quite commonly made was that the Chinese authorities were able to attain their results due to cultural differences and that it would not be possible to emulate their success in the USA or UK.

Whilst being very patronising about the matter, there was much truth to this.

The Swedes chose to act as they did for cultural reasons, they felt, quite rightly that due to relatively high levels of trust within the society that a full on lockdown would be unnecessary. There were also legal issues making a government mandated lockdown pretty much impossible.

The UK acted as they did for cultural reasons too. As did the USA. The United States faced additional problems too.

The reality is that from a public health and economic perspective the Chinese got it absolutely right.

Much of the difference in outcomes we see now can be attributed to the greater or lesser degree to which other countries were able to follow the optimal strategy implemented in China.

This means that analysis and discussion of outcomes in the west will not be able to take place honestly because no country in the west will be able to frame the discussion from the perspective of what was best.

We will see blame cast in all directions apart from the culturally unacceptable direction: we should all have locked down fast, thoroughly and hard. Infected people should have been isolated from the healthy population and there should have been no element of rationing of care.

Of course China is not completely clear, that's not possible, but, again, the management of flare ups seems to be exemplary.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 30, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
I did think all this virus shit may effect property prices in Russia short term.. just a couple of weeks back they knocked our new place prices down about $2000 .. But hey presto 1st July prices are already recovered back to normal so still on track to make a nice profit...I had a feeling it would be short lived.. but not so short..

Property prices in the USA are not down at all for most of our markets. Builders stop building and getting new permits to build. Mortgage rate dropped. We ended up with a shortage of housing and higher prices. With all the unemployed people that was  surprise to me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on June 30, 2020, 10:27:23 PM


The Swedes chose to act as they did for cultural reasons, they felt, quite rightly that due to relatively high levels of trust within the society that a full on lockdown would be unnecessary. There were also legal issues making a government mandated lockdown pretty much impossible.

I'd like to see some sort of source for this 'jackanory' bollox about 'legal issue preventing a lockdown' ..

One of us has clearly not been keeping up with Anders Tegnell ..

March 2020: “There is no evidence whatsoever that doing more at this stage would make any difference. It’s far better to introduce stringent measures at very specific intervals, and keep them running for as little time as possible.”  Those words should haunt him ..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/catastrophe-sweden-coronavirus-stoicism-lockdown-europe

May 2020: Anders Tegnell says "there was ‘potential for improvement’ in country’s strategy to fight pandemic

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/architect-of-sweden-coronavirus-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnell

June:
The man's in denial again ..Anders Tegnell has said "the WHO has made a 'total misinterpretation' of the data" Sweden turns on WHO for saying it had suffered 'very significant resurgence' of Covid-19

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/26/sweden-accuses-misinterpreting-data-saying-had-significant-resurgence/


The UK acted as they did for cultural reasons too.

Easier to spot in hindsight, but the UK was going to go for 'herd immunity' until Prof Neil Ferguson got his point across ( rather too late ) that  continuing a policy of social distancing, with no lockdown could result in 250 -500k deaths ..

The reality is that from a public health and economic perspective the Chinese got it absolutely right.

'Sure' they did .. given they actively throttled doctors for 'insurrection' for trying to get out the info that the govt was ignoring the threat ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 01, 2020, 02:07:21 AM
Greedy Muslims in Muslim-dominated Leicester refuse to adhere to the lockdown: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8476065/amp/Clothes-factory-bosses-Leicester-vow-defy-city-lockdown.html

Because they’re Muslims, the local council will do nothing of course.

Resident Muslim apologist incoming in 5... 4... 3...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 01, 2020, 02:12:14 AM
Greedy Muslims in Muslim-dominated Leicester refuse to adhere to the lockdown: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8476065/amp/Clothes-factory-bosses-Leicester-vow-defy-city-lockdown.html

Because they’re Muslims, the local council will do nothing of course.

The council was pointing out the the govt that they had no legal power to enforce any breaches...   BEFORE the lockdown was implemented ..  It's not just 'greedy Muslims' that are refusing to obey regulations, though, is it ?

I'd have thought my 500K refusing to socially distance on a beach would have stopped this nonsense of yours that only one segment of society was selfish / stupid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 01, 2020, 03:06:48 AM
Resident Muslim apologist incoming in 5... 4... 3...

I bet he jumps all over this and hopes I forget about calling him out a few posts above. He made a right mess of it but Moby always chooses to go missing rather than admit wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 01, 2020, 03:12:33 AM
Moby, you can learn stuff as you go through life - as I do - or you can take the lazy way that you choose.

Put simply, you could have done what i did and you'd not need to waste your time.
https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/the-legal-reason-why-sweden-could-not-impose-lockdown/20200426195308005498.html

Other countries shaped their responses to accord with legal constraints. Its one reason why many countries governments close to describe the situation not as a state of emergency but as something else such as 'emergency situation'.

Of course a legal system and legislation is an embodiment, in written form of the culture of a group of people.

Go do some learning about what happened in China, or you can continue to be lazy/dishonest. Take it as read that I do know more than you because I am not like you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 01, 2020, 04:34:07 AM
Greedy Muslims in Muslim-dominated Leicester refuse to adhere to the lockdown: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8476065/amp/Clothes-factory-bosses-Leicester-vow-defy-city-lockdown.html

Because they’re Muslims, the local council will do nothing of course.

Resident Muslim apologist incoming in 5... 4... 3...

And right on cue...........

The council was pointing out the the govt that they had no legal power to enforce any breaches...   BEFORE the lockdown was implemented ..  It's not just 'greedy Muslims' that are refusing to obey regulations, though, is it ?

I'd have thought my 500K refusing to socially distance on a beach would have stopped this nonsense of yours that only one segment of society was selfish / stupid.

Classic MobySwerveTM there. Please quote me where I said it was only the Muzzies?

Anyway, please continue with being stretched out to dry over Sweden.  :popcorn:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 01, 2020, 05:03:23 AM
Moby, you can learn stuff as you go through life - as I do - or you can take the lazy way that you choose.

Put simply, you could have done what i did and you'd not need to waste your time.
https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/the-legal-reason-why-sweden-could-not-impose-lockdown/20200426195308005498.html

..and what does your link 'prove'.. ?

1/ that the Swedish govt CHOSE not the change the law / seek legislation changes in Parliament

2/ that Anders Tegnell's mindsight was go go for the 'herd immunity' solution - though please don't use that phrase around him, as it 'annoys' him ..

The results of his failed experiment are now clear to see .. abject failure

As YOU are too lazy to note.. other nations with the same absence of laws to enforce lockdowns sought ( and obtained)  Parliamentary accord..in a DAY ..

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2019-21/coronavirus.html (https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2019-21/coronavirus.html)

Go do some learning about what happened in China, or you can continue to be lazy/dishonest. Take it as read that I do know more than you because I am not like you.

If your post was an example of your 'learning' then I'm afraid your inability to judge folks is even more serious than I thought ..

China: Are you seriously trying to suggest 'whistleblowers' were not censored and admonished in the earliest days ?

Sweden: As andrewfi is clearly out of touch with reality as to Swedish politics ..

"In the first party leaders’ debate in parliament since the pandemic began, opposition politicians went after Prime Minister Stefan Löfven on Wednesday, saying Sweden’s spiking death rate from COVID-19 and inability to protect residents of elderly care homes represent serious failures.

“I said today the same thing I have been saying: Testing is moving too slowly and the government hasn’t got control of the situation,” Ulf Kristersson, leader of the center-right Moderates, the largest opposition party in parliament, told POLITICO as he left the chamber.

Jimmie Åkesson, leader of the far-right Sweden Democrats, said the government had been too slow to react to the crisis and when it did, it made serious errors.

“Misjudgements were made early on about how dangerous the virus was,” he told POLITICO. “The virus was allowed to spread.”

The flare-up underscored how opposition lawmakers have quickly shifted from “rallying 'round the flag” to distancing themselves from the government’s crisis response as the death rate from COVID-19 has spiked and voters have begun to lose faith in Sweden’s unique no-lockdown approach. 

“The government should replace the general director of the Public Health Agency who can then appoint another state epidemiologist” — Jimmie Åkesson, leader of the far-right Sweden Democrats"


A survey by pollster Novus for the public service broadcaster SVT published late last week showed the share of respondents with “very or quite high confidence” in the government’s ability to handle the coronavirus plummeted to 45 percent in June from 63 percent in April.

https://www.politico.eu/article/swedes-turn-on-swedens-corona-response-coronavirus-covid19/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/swedes-turn-on-swedens-corona-response-coronavirus-covid19/)

In the meantime, the US had overtaken the UK and Sweden in the rolling 7-day death rate 'chart' ( Sweden has been top three since March 17th, Top two since April 14th and top since May 10th, with the UK regaining top spot only twice during that time )

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=CAN~DEU~ITA~KOR~SWE~GBR~USA

While andrewfi and the Swedish govt make 'excuses' that are so easily busted ... the only saving grace is 'Trampu's'  policy may be proving to be even more stupid ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 01, 2020, 05:21:44 AM

Classic MobySwerve there. Please quote me where I said it was only the Muzzies?

The only 'swerve' going on is your 'Cummings'-like denial ..

Who posted this? "Muslims ignore social distancing, live loads to a house and all pray together in groups with their arses in the air. Why do you think all the high Muslim population areas like the rough bits of London and Birmingham, Blackburn. Rochdale, etc. all showed high infection? Everyone knows this. When you wipe your arse with your left hand it isnt terribly conducive to stopping disease spreading."

*I* responded showing 500k COVIDiots on Bournemouth beach ... proving you don't have to be 'Muslim' to be selfish / greedy / stupid re social distancing .. that .. for a normal person .. should have been enough to realise they were 'generalising' .. putting it politely ..

Here's a list of regions/ cities were infections are on the rise and 'risk lockdown'

(https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PRI_156162331.jpg?)


The areas include Gloucestershire, Isle of Wight, York, Wiltshire, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Suffolk and  'rough parts of London' like Kensington and Chelsea....

I could list more, but I'd be interested to know why you'd think 'Muzzies' would be 'responsible' ...

Clearly, religion / race / colour of skin or whatever criteria you might use seems ...well... bollox ..?


Anyway, please continue with being stretched out to dry over Sweden.  :popcorn:

'Sorry', but as long as you're going to allow me to counter with facts, the only folks that are' being stretched out to dry' are those in denial re the numbers and ( worse) those suggesting laws couldn't be implimented..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 01, 2020, 06:31:44 AM


Why must I waste time correcting you? Next you'll tell me that their figures are wrong and you are right?? From their headline;

"Contrary to public official’s statements, there is an excess mortality of 30% in Sweden as a whole"

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/06/11/contrary-to-public-officials-statements-there-is-an-excess-mortality-of-30-in-sweden-as-a-whole/#.XvsCyS2ZNBw
Sighs

The date re excess mortality I've posted was from ... the Swedish govt ..


Sweden has been a great test case, for the lock down country's to analyse and compare data, giving us a better chance of tweaking our approach to handling the next viral pandemic.

How not to handle it, yes ..

Also, the numbers show that in a society which has largely continued as normal, people under the age of 40 have an 0.006% chance of dying from covid-19 and 70+ account for 96% of all deaths. This is quite telling and the data could be used to look at how we survive the next virus both socially and economically, making it worthy of a discussion, to implement a selected lockdown given the Swedish data.

Sighs,

Once again, those number were compared by myself and Tex and they didn't add up ... yet here you are repeating nonsense.

1/ Sweden is on a red list

2/ Polls show that Swedes are rapidly losing faith in the government's strategy, with confidence in politicians and the public health body collapsing.

In a survey this week, just 38 per cent said they approved of the government's actions during the pandemic, versus 50 per cent in May.

source: DM https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8462727/The-world-went-crazy-lockdowns-says-Swedens-coronavirus-expert.html

Discussing anything with you is utterly pointless. You simply cannot accept any other view point unless it conforms with your obstinate outlook. The data I quoted makes a clear and valid case for open minded discussion yet you fail to even understand what the point is and instead go off arguing in tangents.

I've reeled you in and spent time helping you better understand yet you've got an inability to accept reality. Anyone can find and link random articles to backup their views but only intelligent readers have the ability to use multi-vary analysis to identify families or sub groups of variations which allows us to see true patterns rather than a predictable headline.

I'm unsure if your inability to be slightly more open minded is down to intellect or lack of, or that you see it as a political rather than a scientific discussion? You mostly appear to be an angry old man who's simply out of his depth and cant keep up. I wont be wasting my time on you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 01, 2020, 06:59:24 AM
Here's a list of regions/ cities were infections are on the rise and 'risk lockdown'

(https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PRI_156162331.jpg?)


The areas include Gloucestershire, Isle of Wight, York, Wiltshire, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Suffolk and  'rough parts of London' like Kensington and Chelsea....

I could list more, but I'd be interested to know why you'd think 'Muzzies' would be 'responsible' ...

What a selective list you used.  :chuckle:

I said the virus was rampant in Muzzie and immigrant areas. Not exclusively - your natural English failed to notice the difference there. But hey, lets look at your list.

1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 16, 21, 22, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 and 33 are areas I know to be heaving with immigrants.

The point is valid and well-documented. Why you choose to lie your arse off and apologise for them us anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 01, 2020, 08:23:37 AM
Mystic, stop wasting time. Yes, you're bored, yes, you're stressed, yes, you're worried about your future. Don't displace all your shit onto other people.

Go do the reading. Get back to me with your informed assessment on how easy it is to change the constitution of Sweden. Give us some guidelines as to how long the process would take.

That should keep you busy for a while. The rest of us know that the timescale lies outside of that which was reasonable at the time.

As already noted differences in reaction were largely conditioned by local culture.

Go away and find out exactly why some people in China were sanctioned early on. Having done so, tell us why spreading panic was met with pushback. For context you might want to look at the case in Northern Italy.

While you're at it, tell us about legislation against shouting FIRE in a crowded theatre.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 01, 2020, 08:37:48 AM
Oh dear,

You really DO want to keep proving how 'well' you know your own country ....

Ealing, London ... 79% Caucasian or Asian

Doncaster 89% Caucasian


Barking and Dagenham: Mostly white ..followed by Asian and Black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Barking_and_Dagenham#Demographics

I could go on ...

Source 2011 Census
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 01, 2020, 08:53:04 AM
Mystic, stop wasting time. Yes, you're bored, yes, you're stressed, yes, you're worried about your future. Don't displace all your shit onto other people.

[trolling removed]

Go do the reading.

I've already read and given you links on which YOU need to counter ... Sweden and it's 'laws it ( according to YOU) cannot change' ...  :coffeeread:

                                                                                                                  China and it's initial reluctance to admit there was a problem - even internally..

 
Sadly, for you ... after today, I'll be even less busy and able to chastise you for misleading folks
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 01, 2020, 09:39:10 AM


The only 'swerve' going on is your 'Cummings'-like denial ..


Who is this Cummings bloke?

Is this the guy who you claim to still be in all the front pages because of his drive north? Is this the same guy who’s actions you claim led to mass protests around the world because all the hood rats use him as a benchmark for what they can and can’t do!!

 :ROFL:  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 01, 2020, 10:21:04 AM
Dear Rosco,

When Boris is dismissed as Tory leader, I'll remind you " I told you so" 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 01, 2020, 10:39:22 AM
Oh dear,

[some spin]

Source 2011 Census

Because immigrants and Muzzies always fill in the census, right?  (:)

You are daft as a brush.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 01, 2020, 11:04:51 AM
Moby, posting irrelevant links is just wasting your time.

Unless you are willing to learn then even as we understand your inherent dishonesty it is impossible deal with you. If you don't understand how the world works, how changing a country's constitution is not something done at the drop of a hat then you are showing us that you are dumb as a post.

That's why I gave you the opportunity to learn, to feed back what you learned. If you showed that amending a national constitution is something done quickly and easily then I too can learn.

I learn all the time. I grow every day.
You on the other hand show us all the time that you are incapable of growth. That's just sad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on July 01, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
I saw 2 videos showing a pretty white girl and another white man licking sunk covers to show that Wuhan virus was a scam!

The white man was then admitted to hospital in the same video.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 01, 2020, 04:38:02 PM
Muslim Covid hot spots in the U.K......Bradford, Barnsley & Rochdale. Even the Guardian has picked up on it although they’re blaming wealthy, white, conservative males for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/data-reveals-coronavirus-hotspots-in-bradford-barnsley-and-rochdale
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 02, 2020, 05:54:02 AM
Muslim Covid hot spots in the U.K......Bradford, Barnsley & Rochdale. Even the Guardian has picked up on it although they’re blaming wealthy, white, conservative males for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/data-reveals-coronavirus-hotspots-in-bradford-barnsley-and-rochdale

Poor 'ol Rosco, the Guardian map shows places like NW Lancs, Somerset....and other rural spots. NOT overly diverse as hot spots...

Somerset may well be the 'Muzzirs' who fled to 'Weston Super Mud ' ( except it wasn't 'Muzzies') and caused the hospital to be closed temporarily.

Blaming one section of the community for not socially distancing ...when the news showed Blacks and white people being stupid was the short sighted and silly post.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 02, 2020, 05:57:38 AM

Oh dear,

[some spin]

Source 2011 Census

Because immigrants and Muzzies always fill in the census, right?  (:)

You are daft as a brush.

My spin was factual...like my photo of 500k mainly white people 'social distancing'..

FACT is Black, Asian folk are more at risk from serious COVID-19 and that includes six fig salary Consultants working in the NHS.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on July 02, 2020, 06:32:57 AM
Some recent riots in USA were actually organised by Mandarin speaking people (China Commies?!?) :


The CCP Red Chinese Communists would never try to introduce a hybrid SARS HIV bioweapon to wipe out millions of Americans and weaken us in preparation of a Mandarin lead invasion now... Would they?????

They did it once.  Why couldn't they do it one more time?

Their virus has hurt USA economics deeply. To them, it is a "Victory"!

If they still have some "New Virus Inventions" in their Wuhan P4 lab, I am very sure they will attack USA the 2nd round so that USA medical system are overloaded again!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on July 02, 2020, 06:38:23 AM
I saw 2 videos showing a pretty white girl and another white man licking sunk covers to show that Wuhan virus was a scam!

The white man was then admitted to hospital in the same video.


I find this one again.
Pretty White Girl licking sunk cover (https://twitter.com/realavalouiise/status/1238915362470625292?)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 02, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
US cities imposing partial shuts downs and infection rates continue to raise. Atlanta has to close airport over virus infected TSA agent. New York city to delay reopening of indoors restaurants. USA death rates back up over a thousand. 1200 today.


ATLANTA, GA — The Main TSA checkpoint at Atlanta’s Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport has been closed for a deep cleaning after a TSA agent tested positive for COVID-19.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-live-updates-us-reports-nearly-50000-new-cases-another-single-day-record/ar-BB16dYtN?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 03, 2020, 06:04:09 AM
Muslim Covid hot spots in the U.K......Bradford, Barnsley & Rochdale. Even the Guardian has picked up on it although they’re blaming wealthy, white, conservative males for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/data-reveals-coronavirus-hotspots-in-bradford-barnsley-and-rochdale

Poor 'ol Rosco, the Guardian map shows places like NW Lancs, Somerset....and other rural spots. NOT overly diverse as hot spots...

Somerset may well be the 'Muzzirs' who fled to 'Weston Super Mud ' ( except it wasn't 'Muzzies') and caused the hospital to be closed temporarily.

Blaming one section of the community for not socially distancing ...when the news showed Blacks and white people being stupid was the short sighted and silly post.

Read the guardian headline in the link and stop arguing, you absolute Mong.  :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 03, 2020, 10:41:51 AM
He doesn't read does he? Had he done so he'd have seen that the point about ethnic minority groups was explicitly mentioned with accompanying data points.

Is it that he really doesn't (or can't) read or that he can but is just incapable of being honest? After all, if he'd read the article he couldn't have honestly made the claim that he did.

Imagine needing to deal with somebody like Mystic in the real world. Any normal person, any person who could understand what he says, would shun him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 03, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
He doesn't read does he? Had he done so he'd have seen that the point about ethnic minority groups was explicitly mentioned with accompanying data points.

Is it that he really doesn't (or can't) read or that he can but is just incapable of being honest? After all, if he'd read the article he couldn't have honestly made the claim that he did.

Imagine needing to deal with somebody like Mystic in the real world. Any normal person, any person who could understand what he says, would shun him.

Imagine having to deal with andrewfi, always making stuff up about internet opponents that bust his bizarre estimations of others' lives..

I have previously highlighted certain ethnic minorities being more prone to get COVID-19 in it's more serious manifestations.

The 'issue', as you 'forget,' was an assumption that 'Muslims' bring this on themselves because they cannot 'socially distance' ..

Poor ol' Kirsty is locked down( again )  in Dumfries and Galloway ..'well-known' for it's high percentage of diverse ethnicities ... NOT ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 03, 2020, 04:51:55 PM
The 'issue', as you 'forget,' was an assumption that 'Muslims' bring this on themselves because they cannot 'socially distance' ..

They can, they choose not to. Their culture makes them live several generations to a house on top of each other. The virus running rampant through Muslim areas proves this simple fact.

Why you feel the need to deny it in your Muslim apologist role is bemusing. I know you pinko lot would like to pretend they’re civilised and “just like us”, but they’re really not. From wiping their arse with their left hand, raping our kids, blowing us up to falling to integrate shows us they have different values and culture to us. Why pretend they’re culturally similar and their lifestyle isn’t a factor when we all know it is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on July 03, 2020, 06:51:11 PM
The 'issue', as you 'forget,' was an assumption that 'Muslims' bring this on themselves because they cannot 'socially distance' ..

They can, they choose not to. Their culture makes them live several generations to a house on top of each other. The virus running rampant through Muslim areas proves this simple fact.

Why you feel the need to deny it in your Muslim apologist role is bemusing. I know you pinko lot would like to pretend they’re civilised and “just like us”, but they’re really not. From wiping their arse with their left hand, raping our kids, blowing us up to falling to integrate shows us they have different values and culture to us. Why pretend they’re culturally similar and their lifestyle isn’t a factor when we all know it is.

That Muslims, Hindus or for that matter Jewsish followers have different norms and beliefs is not a problem for me. It seems though that through there actions they endanger themselves and by default the greater society they are in.

My problem is when people of one political or religious flavour force and demand that society accept and follow there will. Expecting that there traditions and laws should be followed. Please do not be offended when I say to them, fcuk off & go back to your sand castle.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 04, 2020, 01:47:06 AM

The 'issue', as you 'forget,' was an assumption that 'Muslims' bring this on themselves because they cannot 'socially distance' ..

They can, they choose not to. Their culture makes them live several generations to a house on top of each other. The virus running rampant through Muslim areas proves this simple fact. 

Again, with the tosh ...?

I've lived in Cyprus where the parents move out of the bigger part of the house to make way for growing families ( whether Greek Orthodox or hardly v.staunch 'Muslims' in the case of most Turkish Cypriots )

Russia isn't  an where as'big' on care homes for the elderly as many families care for Babushkas and Dedushkas at home. 

Why you feel the need to deny it

'Coz *I* am not in denial of the lunacy of folks ( all ethnicities )  heading to the beaches or pre lockdown the Peak District or other national parks... 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 04, 2020, 03:12:41 AM
or ol' Kirsty is locked down( again )  in Dumfries and Galloway ..'well-known' for it's high percentage of diverse ethnicities ... NOT ..

Moby never lets the truth get in the way of a good story.

Dumfries and Galloway isn't in lockdown at all. Shops are open, most people are back to work and the region is no different to any other in Scotland right now. I read that a few NHS staff had tested positive for covid and the SNP stupidly named and shamed them.

Carry on with your lies though Moby, you've always liked to pick up a half story and run with a load of bollox to support your narrative. I just thought you'd be getting embarrassed by your daily dress downs. You're looking rather stupid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 04, 2020, 03:34:24 AM
Rosco, residents of the effected post codes are forbidden to travel more than 5 miles from home

"People in Scotland living in the postcode areas of DG16 (Gretna), DG12 (Annan), DG1 and DG2 (Dumfries), DG11 (Lockerbie), DG13 (Langholm) and DG14 (Canonbie) are being asked to travel no more than 5 miles while efforts to manage the outbreak continue. This advice does not apply to essential travel".

https://www.gov.scot/news/management-of-local-covid-19-outbreak/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 04, 2020, 12:55:23 PM
Now it's 'Naughty Nige' breaking quarantine rules ..

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-appears-to-break-quarantine-rules-with-pub-photo-after-us-trip-12020998 (https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-appears-to-break-quarantine-rules-with-pub-photo-after-us-trip-12020998)

Nigel Farage appears to have broken the UK's quarantine rules after posting a photo in a pub at midday today - less than two weeks after returning from the US.

There are calls for an investigation after the Brexit Party leader shared a photo with a pint as the coronavirus lockdown in England eased and pubs reopened for the first time. He wrote: "12 o'clock, first customer in. Love it."

MSNBC footage shows Mr Farage at a Donald Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at 1.02am (UK time) on 21 June.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 04, 2020, 10:46:06 PM
Their is not a lock down but I no longer go anywhere just like a lock down. I might go out Monday morning when there is not many people out to buy more food, a couple of needed building supplies and some riding mower parts. Mask are required everywhere we go.

I read in Houston 25 per cent of the virus test are coming back positive.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-coronavirus-slams-houston-hospitals-its-like-new-york-all-over-again/ar-BB16kOJI?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on July 05, 2020, 05:29:21 AM
Their is not a lock down but I no longer go anywhere just like a lock down. I might go out Monday morning when there is not many people out to buy more food, a couple of needed building supplies and some riding mower parts. Mask are required everywhere we go.

I read in Houston 25 per cent of the virus test are coming back positive.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-coronavirus-slams-houston-hospitals-its-like-new-york-all-over-again/ar-BB16kOJI?li=BBnb7Kz


It is a bad news!
The protests and Riots helped spreading Wuhan virus again!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 05, 2020, 11:59:27 AM
UK..

First day that bars reopen..

We dealt with anti-social behaviour, naked men, possession of class ‘A’ drugs, happy drunks, angry drunks, fights, more angry drunks and was called a fascist pig by somebody we tried to help! What was crystal clear is that drunk people can’t/won’t socialy [sic] distance.


https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/05/brits-party-well-morning-chaotic-first-night-pubs-reopening-12947042/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 05, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
More about the coronavirus. They are now saying that is is airborne able to transmit. Second they are saying Houston Hospitals likely to be over run in less than two weeks.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/05/coronavirus-on-track-to-overwhelm-houston-hospitals-in-two-weeks-mayor-says.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/239-experts-with-1-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne/ar-BB16l0RP?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 05, 2020, 05:09:32 PM
Not sure what the second article is trying to say. It seems very confused. The terminology is not applied consistently.

Some of the 'suggestions' being made seem to be either incorrect or outdated.

Bottom line: the virus is transmited from person to person through particles of various sizes. Facemasks do reduce transmission of the virus. Different types of masks have differing properties.
N95 masks are not as effective as the article suggests.

I'm not sure if the writer does not understand the topic. That might be the case given the confused terminology. It may be that the writer has a preferred agenda but is working within editorial guidelines that limit his ability to propagandise.
On the whole, I think that lack of understanding is probably the primary issue here though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 06, 2020, 03:54:32 AM
Further to suggestions from some members as to particular ethnicities  spreading the virus through 'lack of social distancing'..

My local media is full of fights with sixty plus participants out side a pub in Abbeymead..a suburb area of Gloucester..

Then we have one of THE most diverse areas of Gloucester being 'death free' whilst my rural bliss has had multiple deaths...none of them from an eth. minority...

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/six-neighbourhoods-gloucestershire-no-coronavirus-4163173

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 07, 2020, 12:13:21 AM
Meanwhile, in the real world, Muslim sweat shops in Leicester ignore lock down and workers don't even have masks.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12004235/how-leicester-sweat-shops-are-still-full-of-workers-earning-2-50-per-hour-despite-lockdown/

The Sun doesn't mention Muslims of course, they go as far to suggest that they are all Indian Hindus, which is nonsense.

Other media get closer to the facts, but of course have to pussy foot about so as not to "offend" Muslims.

This quote below will upset Moby:

Quote from: Manzoor Moghal
Roughly half the population is non-white, and the majority of black and minority ethnic residents come from the Indian subcontinent, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The majority are Muslim, but there are thriving populations of Sikhs and Hindus, too.

In Leicester, however, the problems were hidden, continuous and particularly problematic because of the city's social, economic and cultural make-up.

It is an inescapable reality that ethnic minorities face particularly acute challenges when it comes to coronavirus.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8490305/I-tell-exactly-Leicester-lockdown.html

Moby wants you to believe it's all white oldies like him in the Home Counties passing it along by spluttering over the Vicars Wensleydale, and he wants us to believe Leicester is 2% Tropical People when the quote above tells the truth: about half.

The reader can decide.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 07, 2020, 04:28:27 AM
Here monitories are three times more likely to have the virus than whites. Mainly blacks and Hispanics. We have some pretty stupid white people who think the virus is a hoax. It is interesting that the average person who has the virus now is 15 years younger than who had it in wave one. Our biggest increase in cases is in the 18 to 35 year olds. I feel more older people are social distancing better than in the past. It does not matter who has the virus it still causes the economy to get hurt. If you get on a plane the person sitting next to you maybe one of these people who is not social distancing. If you go to a store the same thing. Non social distancers do not stay in their neighborhoods or even city. The trouble we had here is people who go to bars and night clubs have a high percentage of non social distancers. Then add drinking to it.  Then there seem to be some belief that the virus is over with and nobody has to worry about it any more. At least now the bars are closed again and the people know the virus did come back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 07, 2020, 06:26:41 AM
Many young people not showing symptoms from Virus are showing lung damage.

https://www.msnbc.com/11th-hour/watch/doc-covid-19-damages-lungs-of-patients-showing-no-symptoms-87129669600
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 07, 2020, 06:39:58 AM
(Lots of meaningless words from a Red top tabloidwith a reading age of 9 yes.....)


The reader can decide.

Indeed the reader can decide why you still insist on this COVIDiocy being a 'Muzzie' thang'...

Leicester is c.19 percent 'Muslim..

Merthyr Tydfil in Wales has THREE times the new case rate in Leicester and it's another meat processing plant.( NOT high in the diversity stakes)

Those in the know are wondering why food processing plants are consistently figuring in outbreaks.


'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 07, 2020, 06:41:48 AM
Spain ( less than six percent showing antibodies is another nation proving 'herd immunity' is a wet dream.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-53315983

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 07, 2020, 10:29:09 PM
Immunity after beating the virus is still unknown. One expert thinks a small percentage of people will get immunity and even then, it will be short lived.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/immunity-to-the-coronavirus-is-fragile-and-short-lived-immunologist-warns/ar-BB16oSue?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds


Dr. Fauci said a vaccine may not provide lifelong immunity based on what we know about existing coronaviruses. I'd hate to be wearing masks forever. As years go by and nations go into recessions and quality of life is reduced, we'll begin to realize how much China fukced over humanity.

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/02/dr-anthony-fauci-says-theres-a-chance-coronavirus-vaccine-may-not-provide-immunity-for-very-long.html?&doc=106604273


China is working hard in trying to find a vaccine or treatment. Just doing their part to save the world. Trump is going to drop the hammer on them soon.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fbi-director-unleashes-on-china-in-speech/ar-BB16rXE7?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on July 09, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Immunity after beating the virus is still unknown. One expert thinks a small percentage of people will get immunity and even then, it will be short lived.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/immunity-to-the-coronavirus-is-fragile-and-short-lived-immunologist-warns/ar-BB16oSue?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds


Dr. Fauci said a vaccine may not provide lifelong immunity based on what we know about existing coronaviruses. I'd hate to be wearing masks forever. As years go by and nations go into recessions and quality of life is reduced, we'll begin to realize how much China fukced over humanity.

http://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/02/dr-anthony-fauci-says-theres-a-chance-coronavirus-vaccine-may-not-provide-immunity-for-very-long.html?&doc=106604273


China is working hard in trying to find a vaccine or treatment. Just doing their part to save the world. Trump is going to drop the hammer on them soon.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fbi-director-unleashes-on-china-in-speech/ar-BB16rXE7?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

Our HK scientists and doctors say, vaccine of a particular type of corona virus is effective for about 6 to 12 months.  After the virus has mutated, another vaccine is needed.  Situation is similar to the Bird Flu starting since WWI.  For each type of mutation HnNn, we need a new vaccine for this new type.


ChiNazi works on vaccine because they want to earn money from us.  They never have any idea about saving human's life.  See how they manipulate Americans with their Unlimited War targeting to USA.
Drugs;
Fake US Dollar Bills;
Wuhan Virus;
Bribing USA president candidate;
Bribing USA media;
Controlling USA citizens' speech freedom;
..
..
etc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 09, 2020, 11:42:12 AM


ChiNazi works on vaccine because they want to earn money from us. 


They'll be stealing the work of American and European labs and be selling us the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 09, 2020, 09:45:14 PM

Mr Bald and Bankrupt found out who his friends were when he was hospitalised with COVID-19 as is amazingly frank about what he saw in hospital

He saw people die on their own and wants folks to take this virus seriously

I recommend you all watch the vid .

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 10, 2020, 02:24:37 AM
Anyone whom says covid isn't dangerous is deluded.

The pictures are out there, video's are out there. Stories are out there and yet people still try to play down its lethalness or importance.

Thats sad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 10, 2020, 04:38:55 AM
On of my friends here has just come out of quarantine .. his GF got the virus mildly .. so the people in the white suits arrived locked them down after the paper work ..

They were confined to the apartment for nearly a month.. and the strange thing is he never even got symptom nothing whats so ever..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 10, 2020, 06:32:20 AM
The trouble with this virus is you never know. One person will never know they are sick and another will dies from it. The real other problem is how much lung damage? It seem many people who have little to no symptoms still have lung damage that will last for many years if not life. The new form of the virus two weeks is not enough. The virus now spreads easier and last longer in people that are effected. China has notices the new form of the virus is harder to control than the original.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 10, 2020, 06:58:11 AM
A new virus emerges.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kazakhstan-chinese-officials-warn-of-new-unknown-pneumonia-that-is-deadlier-than-coronavirus/ar-BB16yZ3C?li=BBnbfcL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 10, 2020, 09:12:31 AM
Anyone whom says covid isn't dangerous is deluded.

The pictures are out there, video's are out there. Stories are out there and yet people still try to play down its lethalness or importance.

Thats sad.

Within a few months, 1 out of every 600 people in the State of NY died. It was worse in NYC. This is what can happen if left out of control. Community hospitals can handle all illnesses and injuries of the community but one outbreak of Covid-19 and hospitals are overloaded. In Italy hundreds of doctors died and 15,000 became ill taking them out of action. These totals do not include other medical personnel. It's one reason not everybody could get medical attention right away at the hospitals.

Most people in the world doesn't live in areas like NY or Italy and will never experience what they did since we have changed our behavior to limit the speed of the spread. They have an illusion this virus isn't as bad as what is claimed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 10, 2020, 12:06:01 PM
Anyone whom says covid isn't dangerous is deluded.

The pictures are out there, video's are out there. Stories are out there and yet people still try to play down its lethalness or importance.

Thats sad.

The bottom line is that people will not care until "death comes knocking at your front door".   More volunteer grave diggers needed  :GRAVE:  :'( :dh: :duh: :P
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 10, 2020, 12:15:24 PM
Quote
Three months ago, at what was the peak of the coronavirus outbreak, 36,000 people were being diagnosed per day. That number was unthinkably high. In the past two weeks, the record for new cases reported on a single day has been broken six times.
The US has now reported roughly one-quarter of the world's coronavirus cases and deaths, despite representing less than 5% of the global population.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-rising-cases-hospitalizations-herald-surge-in-us-deaths-2020-7


Why are people dying in the middle of summer? It is expected to exceed 100 F (38 C) by the end of next week where I live.  Where are the seasonal flu numbers to compare to what is going on now?  Does this mean that you will need to be vaccinated every month until you die?    :duh: (:) :censored: :snivel: :ROFL:


Quote
"Soooo...Now China has the Bubonic Plague. Buckle up, kids,"
"Bubonic plague has been with us and is always with us, for centuries,"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/08/fact-check-who-fighting-bubonic-plague-inner-mongolia-china/5397793002/

Quote
The Black Death most likely originated in Central Asia or East Asia from where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1347.
 the Black Death was in large part spread by human fleas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

The Black Death is making a comeback.   Along with Avian, swine, equine, bovine, and anything else that you can imagine.  Humans are such filthy beasts.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 10, 2020, 02:30:50 PM
The trouble with this virus is you never know. One person will never know they are sick and another will dies from it. The real other problem is how much lung damage? It seem many people who have little to no symptoms still have lung damage that will last for many years if not life. The new form of the virus two weeks is not enough. The virus now spreads easier and last longer in people that are effected. China has notices the new form of the virus is harder to control than the original.

Here's another problem, without lifetime immunity, we can get COVID-19 over and over and over again. We may survive the first few bouts with it but it will eventually win a battle, especially we we're older and our immune system is weaker. Early estimate is that it takes away 11-12 years from the average human lifespan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 10, 2020, 02:39:13 PM
Why are people dying in the middle of summer? It is expected to exceed 100 F (38 C) by the end of next week where I live.  Where are the seasonal flu numbers to compare to what is going on now?  Does this mean that you will need to be vaccinated every month until you die?    :duh: (:) :censored: :snivel: :ROFL:


Interesting to see all the outbreaks in America are happening in our Southern States where it gets hotter. But due to changes in behavior, we are also saving lives. We're having less illnesses and injuries across the board. Scroll down the page and right before the middle is deaths per week and what is predicted and what actually happened over the last few years to now. IMO, this is the most important chart of them all. 52,000-60,000 deaths a week from all causes in America is normal and as long as we keep that pace, we can begin to get our economy functioning on all cylinders. If we exceed that pace killing too many citizens and overloading hospitals we'd have to slow down again.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 10, 2020, 03:54:28 PM
, we can get COVID-19 over and over and over again........ Early estimate is that it takes away 11-12 years from the average human lifespan.

Link to the science for this claim please?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 10, 2020, 05:58:54 PM
The Black Death is making a comeback.   Along with Avian, swine, equine, bovine, and anything else that you can imagine.  Humans are such filthy beasts.  :chuckle:

The internet is at fault! (never thought I'd say this)

People listen to every joe-crazy instead of doctors and then become anti-vaxine people.

Netherlands vaccination is already below 95% (which is deemed the safety zone) and when it drops below 80% the government will start debating mandatory vaccinations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 10, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
, we can get COVID-19 over and over and over again........ Early estimate is that it takes away 11-12 years from the average human lifespan.

Link to the science for this claim please?

Earlier I put a study up showing monkeys immediately getting reinfected with COVID-19. Here is a study showing Humans getting reinfected with the same coronaviruses after recovery.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200504/Human-endemic-coronavirus-reinfection-possible-after-recovery.aspx


Another study

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.11.20086439v2


Dr. Fauci said even if we end up creating a safe and effective vaccine, we may need another shot 6 months later and even more shots later on. This tells me Fauci isn't confident a single vaccine shot will provide us lifetime immunity. The sad fact is no vaccine in history is effective on 100% of the people. Flu shots many times work on only 60% of the people who take it. The shot for measles is the best we got and it works on 98% of the people who get it.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244038852.html


Lifespan loss study was done in the UK.

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25448/20200424/covid-19-patients-losing-13-years-lives-average-study.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 10, 2020, 09:17:41 PM
It appears after six months people begin to lose there resistance to getting the virus again. We do not really have good numbers on this but it is thought that a vaccine will do basically the same thing. You will need to get two shots to begin to have immunity and most likely need at least one shot every six months. They are not even sure if a vaccine will work for older people. 

In Houston it is getting worse. I am not any where near any hospitals so I can only go on the news.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/all-the-hospitals-are-full-in-houston-overwhelmed-icus-leave-patients-waiting-in-er/ar-BB16AFOW?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

The big difference is no one in the federal government seems to care. It is not talked about as the virus is suppose to already be gone and it is pollically not good to talk about having to control it now. WE are out mediacies to treat the virus, out of ICU beds, and short staff. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 10, 2020, 11:01:51 PM
Quote
The rate of deaths in Texas has been accelerating.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/texas-coronavirus-deaths-morgues-capacity/

https://www.tampabay.com/hurricane/2020/07/10/new-refrigerated-containers-at-hillsborough-medical-examiner-bought-for-hurricanes-not-coronavirus/

https://www.abc15.com/news/coronavirus/phoenix-mayor-abrazo-nearly-out-of-morgue-space-may-be-requesting-refrigerated-trucks

The refrigerated trucks are back.   :chuckle: :snivel: :bow: :evilgrin0002: :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 11, 2020, 06:44:47 AM
Yea the federal government is finally sending us some help that is suppose to arrive on Monday. I hopefully it does not get much worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 11, 2020, 07:34:04 AM
Billy, you misunderstood what you read, again. Yeah, English is not your first language, that makes life tough for you. I get it.

The research in your linked article was referring to the potential lifespan of people who died. So, a person who died with Covid-19 at age 81 was suggested to  have died 13 years earlier than they would otherwise have done.

This is not at all the same as suggesting, as you did, that merely contracting covid-19 would reduce a person's lifespan by 13 years.

A silly error to make but indicative of the real public health problem the United States faces - comprehension!

If people are so poorly educated that they are unable to understand simple information, written in easy language, how can public health messages be communicated to 'Mr Average'?

Possibly worse yet, if people are so easily misled, how can patently false messaging be countered?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 11, 2020, 07:48:17 AM
I had a message from father last night..

(https://scontent.frix7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/108068936_2940823266016558_1576697945221065417_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_oc=AQl3AV51H0m_Dm-OZhm78FfK8rLggT-fWVmPlly7m4Ihjl20TOWi08i7dzyyibmh98U&_nc_ht=scontent.frix7-1.fna&oh=6c31cc932025f97998eb8cfabe185a5a&oe=5F310FFA)

So he has decided to give everyone an extra year of life due to the virus , well the governments are all doing their bit so he is also doing his bit..

If you was booked in to die at say 85 with a Heart attack you will now get an extra 12 months and die the following year..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 11, 2020, 07:50:36 AM
Steveboy, you have a very generous father. A little old, he's doing well.

Say thank you to him, next time you see him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 11, 2020, 08:08:54 AM
Steveboy, you have a very generous father. A little old, he's doing well.

Say thank you to him, next time you see him.

I only see him when its convenient and I need something.. :laugh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 11, 2020, 08:27:35 AM
More about the effects of the coronavirus on the Human body. Some survivors find nearly every part of their body has been damaged.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/how-coronavirus-affects-the-entire-body/ar-BB16B8mr?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 11, 2020, 09:47:25 AM
More about the effects of the coronavirus on the Human body. Some survivors find nearly every part of their body has been damaged.

The article to which you linked does not support your claim.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 11, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
More about the effects of the coronavirus on the Human body. Some survivors find nearly every part of their body has been damaged.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/how-coronavirus-affects-the-entire-body/ar-BB16B8mr?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

But what about all the dumb people with no brains and just a plastic phone stuck to their hand.. I cant see how it can damage them??? Does it effect the fingers and hand in any way? :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 11, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
This is not at all the same as suggesting, as you did, that merely contracting covid-19 would reduce a person's lifespan by 13 years.


You should get your brain checked out by a doctor. I didn't say a person infected with COVID-19 lifespan will reduce by 13 years.  I said "Early estimate is that it takes away 11-12 years from the average human lifespan".  If you still can't see the difference, let me know and I'll explain it to you as if I'm talking to a 10 year old.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 11, 2020, 10:25:34 AM
Here they had a party with someone who had the disease to prove it was not real or at least did not harm young people.  This 30 year old's dying words were I guest it is real and I made a mistake.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-hospital-says-man-30-died-after-attending-covid-party/ar-BB16CojX?ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 11, 2020, 03:27:25 PM
Shops are opening here.. and can you believe they are waiting for 2/3 hours to get into buy some cheap trousers in Zara!! Outside with a mask on phone stuck in the hand semi glued to the head,, :laugh:

I couldn't be assed to stand  for 10 mins even is there was no virus, the other day it was +27 and the line was half the street..

How brain dead can any person want to do such shit.. Im really surprised Starbucks was not there giving free coffee out to the muppets.. yes would look great .. in a line.. +27 mask on.. phone stuck to the ear and a cup go Starbucks coffee in the other hand..and for what? a $10 vest!  :laugh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 11, 2020, 04:48:15 PM
We went to our favourite Indian restaurant this evening. It was almost empty. We were like VIPs at our favourite table.

The virus related measures they’ve introduced are minimal but welcome. The odd visor and mask for wait staff (standard in China), paper menus instead of the laminated ones 20k people have handled. All small things that I would suggest was good practice without the virus. I am one of those germophobes that always took alcohol hand gel into restaurants before the virus (a habit I developed in China). They used to look at my bottle of hand gel on the table in bemusement. Not now.

We had a great meal with added hygiene. Hygiene I’d liked to have seen before. Hygiene that was standard in China before the virus the west is now learning. It added about ten quid to the bill. I’m not bothered. Paying a tenner more to be surrounded by fewer diners and more hygiene is good value.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 12, 2020, 03:28:38 AM
That someone 'SO careful about hygiene' is dining out is somewhat of a contradiction.....

This pandemic has proven ( time and time , again ) that when the brakes are taken off, it surges, again ..

I 'might' consider' eating out ..



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 12, 2020, 03:47:44 AM
That someone 'SO careful about hygiene' is dining out is somewhat of a contradiction.....

You may want to stay cooped up quivering behind the curtains, I don’t. As a pensioner, looking after a vulnerable parent, you need to take more precautions than most.

The virus is fading away in the UK. As we all know, it was mostly detrimental to the sick, weak, old or infirm. And the underclass with questionable hygiene. Half of people are asymptomatic, kids shrug it off. Many have had it without knowing.

With sensible precautions, the risk of a strong and healthy person catching it, and then having serious complications or dropping off the twig are very small.

Life must go on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 12, 2020, 04:36:33 AM


You may want to stay cooped up quivering behind the curtains, I don’t. As a pensioner, looking after a vulnerable parent, you need to take more precautions than most.


True, and I meant , I might consider eating outSIDE

But here you make the same mistake as many others ..esp. in say the USA


The virus is fading away in the UK. As we all know, it was mostly detrimental to the sick, weak, old or infirm. And the underclass with questionable hygiene. Half of people are asymptomatic, kids shrug it off. Many have had it without knowing.

'We' aren't paying attention to flare ups elsewhere... and lots of younger, fitter people, then you ( or I )  have had it and DO know they've had it and do not recommend seeking it out ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 12, 2020, 08:29:33 AM
The virus related measures they’ve introduced are minimal but welcome. The odd visor and mask for wait staff (standard in China), paper menus instead of the laminated ones 20k people have handled. All small things that I would suggest was good practice without the virus. I am one of those germophobes that always took alcohol hand gel into restaurants before the virus (a habit I developed in China). They used to look at my bottle of hand gel on the table in bemusement. Not now.


It's the same in my State and restaurants even have hand sanitizer at the door and some tables not being used. Some infectious disease experts are worried. The overwhelming majority of germs aren't going to kill us. Our bodies experience them often and easily defeat them. By using too much hand sanitizer, more cleaning, and more social distancing our immune systems will have less wars with germs and become relaxed and less experienced in fighting germs so when a dangerous one shows up, we will be more likely to die.

When Americans go to Mexico, they are told not to drink the water because we may end up with diarrhea. Why doesn't that happen to Mexicans? Because their bodies are used to and developed a resistance to the germs in the water.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 12, 2020, 11:00:42 AM
Its airborne now so best start holding your breath when you go out or get a full oxygen set..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 13, 2020, 10:57:32 AM
Readers will have noted recently that Moby is falling over himself to try to deny the undeniable link between the Muslim and immigrant underclass and increased virus transmission.

You may recall earlier in the topic, he claimed Leicester had a 2% Muslim immigrant population but an Indian journalist confirmed what I said and noted it's about half. Why Muslim Leicester is locked down again.

Here's a very inconvenient article for Moby: Coronavirus warning as 10 worst outbreak hotspots named - local lockdown risk (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1308123/coronavirus-uk-infections-cases-towns-cities-public-health-england-covid19-r-rate-latest)

Not - as Moby insinuated - middle class dudes spluttering over the vicars Wensleydale and cream crackers. Not little old dears coughing near the bananas in Tescos.

Pendle, Blackburn, Darwen, Kirklees, the London borough of Dartford - all black and Muslim places. Dover is on the list (where the illegals arrive to - 180 on Sunday (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53392096)). The first three certainly are like Leicester, probably well over half. Peterborough and Dartford officially 10/11% Muslims, but as we all know they dont fill in census forms, double it.

Four locations on the list aren't overrun with immigrants. Obviously it's not exclusively the Muzzies as our resident Pinko tried to suggest I said (I didn't). But Leicester, Pendle, Blackburn, Darwen and Kirklees pretty much look like Islamabad. There is a strong common denominator there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 13, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
Readers will have noted recently that Moby is falling over himself to try to deny the undeniable link between the Muslim and immigrant underclass and increased virus transmission.

You may recall earlier in the topic, he claimed Leicester had a 2% Muslim immigrant population but an Indian journalist confirmed what I said and noted it's about half. Why Muslim Leicester is locked down again.

How can I have made such a claim when I've posted Leicester was c 18% Muslim and 15 percent Hindu ?

Goodness, before you try to edit my post / delete.. I have copies  :ROFL:

WHAT a fibber  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 13, 2020, 11:09:49 AM
Readers will have noted recently that Moby is falling over himself to try to deny the undeniable link between the Muslim and immigrant underclass and increased virus transmission.

You may recall earlier in the topic, he claimed Leicester had a 2% Muslim immigrant population but an Indian journalist confirmed what I said and noted it's about half. Why Muslim Leicester is locked down again.

How can I have made such a claim when I've posted Leicester was c 18% Muslim and 15 percent Hindu ?

Goodness, before you try to edit my post / delete.. I have copies  :ROFL:

WHAT a fibber  :coffeeread:

Let's remind ourselves who claimed 2% Muslim.

Leicester has a 2 percent eth. Pakistani  'Muslim' population ..it's got a v.high percentage of folk of Indian extraction  ( 25% ) ..You confuse the colour of people's skin with religious beliefs ?

 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 13, 2020, 11:20:06 AM
You post something akin to a Govt , " look aren't we doing well?" and totally ignore upticks and warning from scientists that we are relaxing ruls too fast.

Is Angelsey high in 'Muslims' ?

Leicester has a 2 percent eth. Pakistani  'Muslim' population ..it's got a v.high percentage of folk of Indian extraction  ( 25% ) ..You confuse the colour of people's skin with religious beliefs ?

Your ignorance is breath-taking

Manny is spinning like a child's top out of control

Better you quote the WHOLE of my words ..

Your point was ( is? ) that 'Muzzies' can't socially distance' and was easily proved bollox with a few beach photos from Bournemouth   :coffeeread:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 13, 2020, 01:36:43 PM
You post something akin to a Govt , " look aren't we doing well?" and totally ignore upticks and warning from scientists that we are relaxing ruls too fast.

Is Angelsey high in 'Muslims' ?

Leicester has a 2 percent eth. Pakistani  'Muslim' population ..it's got a v.high percentage of folk of Indian extraction  ( 25% ) ..You confuse the colour of people's skin with religious beliefs ?

Your ignorance is breath-taking

Manny is spinning like a child's top out of control

Better you quote the WHOLE of my words ..

Your point was ( is? ) that 'Muzzies' can't socially distance' and was easily proved bollox with a few beach photos from Bournemouth   :coffeeread:

Your whole quote proves nothing further. I referenced your words, you denied it, I quoted you. You've been hung out to dry again.  :pointlaugh:

Feel free to debate the topic relevant content of post #2402. This topic isnt about you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on July 13, 2020, 08:25:42 PM
I live 45 miles from Orlando, one of Florida's hot spots.  I live in Brevard County (next to Orange county (Orlando)).  In Brevard County we have closed Covid19 wards because they have never been used.  There are 600,000 people in Brevard.  It is also very red.  Go figure

this was only three weeks ago.  Now I am being told to avoid hospitals at all costs.  Amazing how things can change so fast.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 13, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
First dedicated Covid-19 antibody study concludes immunity may last a few months. Not good news. This has similar results to immunity studies done for other coronaviruses I posted upthread.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/virus-immunity-in-recovered-patients-may-be-gone-in-months-researchers-say/ar-BB16GohP?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds


CDC continues to learn more about the behavior of the coronavirus and now say 40% of the people infected are asymptomatic. 80% of teens and preteens are asymptomatic

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-number-of-covid-patients-without-symptoms-is-growing-cdc-says/ar-BB16GlqB?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

http://bestlifeonline.com/age-group-asymptomatic/?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=msn-feed


The city of Seattle figures the best way to fund the battle against the virus is to raise taxes.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-city-council-passes-new-jumpstart-tax-on-high-salaries-paid-by-big-businesses/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 13, 2020, 10:54:11 PM
I live 45 miles from Orlando, one of Florida's hot spots.  I live in Brevard County (next to Orange county (Orlando)).  In Brevard County we have closed Covid19 wards because they have never been used.  There are 600,000 people in Brevard.  It is also very red.  Go figure

this was only three weeks ago.  Now I am being told to avoid hospitals at all costs.  Amazing how things can change so fast.

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :)

Quote
The study "puts another nail in the coffin of the dangerous concept of herd immunity," professor Jonathan Heeney, a virologist at the University of Cambridge, said, adding that deliberately trying to get infected in the name of herd immunity created the risk of severe health damage in the future.

"I cannot underscore how important it is that the public understands that getting infected by this virus is not a good thing. Some of the public, especially the youth, have become somewhat cavalier about getting infected, thinking that they would contribute to herd immunity," he said.

"Not only will they place themselves at risk, and others, by getting infected, and losing immunity, they may even put themselves at greater risk of more severe lung disease if they get infected again in the years to come," he added.


https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-new-uk-study-shows-antibodies-fade-after-three-weeks-2020-7

So much for the herd immunity theory.   :biggrin: :-\   :GRAVE: :HOSPITAL: :LIMP: :sick0002: :bow: :snivel: :sick0012: :o
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 13, 2020, 11:11:59 PM
I live 45 miles from Orlando, one of Florida's hot spots.  I live in Brevard County (next to Orange county (Orlando)).  In Brevard County we have closed Covid19 wards because they have never been used.  There are 600,000 people in Brevard.  It is also very red.  Go figure

this was only three weeks ago.  Now I am being told to avoid hospitals at all costs.  Amazing how things can change so fast.

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :

Sunshine?  ;D

It can’t be immigrants or blacks with poor hygiene. If it were, Moby will have to start making stuff up to defend them. He’ll be over there with his BLM sign and Che Guevara T-shirt. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 13, 2020, 11:45:29 PM

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :)

Explain, please ..

Manny THINKS he knows... I'm guessing YOU are referring to 'hispanics' ( immigrants ) ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 14, 2020, 02:50:30 AM

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :)

Explain, please ..

Manny THINKS he knows... I'm guessing YOU are referring to 'hispanics' ( immigrants ) ?

It's like our very own Guardian comments section here. Profile pictures filled with EU flags and lots of liberal ranting over Trump, Brexit and anti migrant press.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 14, 2020, 03:08:20 AM


It's like our very own Guardian comments section here. Profile pictures filled with EU flags and lots of liberal ranting over Trump, Brexit and anti migrant press.

Poor 'ol Rosco, 'we' await the 'reasoning' behind DCguyusa's assertion ... 

You KNOW, if permitted, I'm going to take it apart ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 14, 2020, 05:34:24 AM
Speaking of 'socially distancing'

This gathering of FSU W in SoCal at the weekend will be wondering why they can't go to the krasotka salon for three days and the 'fitness center' and mall is closed ..

(https://i.imgur.com/9wup4TX.jpg)

I guess they must be 'Muzzies'

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-13/no-god-no-tattoos-no-pilates-its-lockdown-2-0-california-sty (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-13/no-god-no-tattoos-no-pilates-its-lockdown-2-0-california-sty)

"California is back on coronavirus lockdown. And we have no one to blame but ourselves"
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 14, 2020, 12:22:48 PM

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :)

Explain, please ..

Manny THINKS he knows... I'm guessing YOU are referring to 'hispanics' ( immigrants ) ?

Geographical proximity to Latin America.  Many outsiders enter the USA through these four states.  Many non-native born residents are located in these four states.  The one outlier is New Mexico.  My guess is that the routes through Arizona and Texas afford easier entry than NM.  FL does not need to physically adjacent to Latin America as the "boat people" used the water to get to the USA.

Note that I was in the Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, and Miami area at the same time last year.

Note that way back earlier this year, it was thought that the intense heat of summer would stop the virus "dead in its tracks".   What happened, you numbskulls????    :biggrin: :'( (:) :chuckle: :dh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 14, 2020, 12:27:20 PM
Quote
The town of Morrison, Colorado, in Jefferson County, which is just west of Denver, made the startling announcement saying that the squirrel is the first case of plague in the county.
However, the CDC says that there is now only an average of seven human plague cases per year and the WHO says the mortality rate is estimated to be between 8-10%.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/squirrel-tests-positive-for-the-bubonic-plague-in-colorado/ar-BB16ImWf

First in inner Mongolia and now in Colorado.   The "tag team" bacteria is ready to compete with the Covid-19 virus.  And  10% mortality rate.  :o :( ??? :-X :scared0005: :bow: :sick0012: :biggrin: :snivel: :dh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 14, 2020, 12:29:30 PM

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :)

Explain, please ..

Manny THINKS he knows... I'm guessing YOU are referring to 'hispanics' ( immigrants ) ?

Geographical proximity to Latin America.  Many outsiders enter the USA through these four states.  Many non-native born residents are located in these four states.  The one outlier is New Mexico.  My guess is that the routes through Arizona and Texas afford easier entry than NM.  FL does not need to physically adjacent to Latin America as the "boat people" used the water to get to the USA.

So it's the wetbacks then? Moby will be upset.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 14, 2020, 12:33:49 PM
 And isn't it picking season right now for a lot of fruits and vegetables grown there? That's when a lot of illegals come up to work and live in cramped accommodations. We had the same problem with migrant workers on farms here not long ago.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/advocates-demand-ontario-shut-down-farms-as-covid-19-cases-soar-among-workers-1.5004897
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 14, 2020, 12:37:13 PM

The big increase in cases appears to be in California, Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  You know what those four states have in common.  :-\ :)

Explain, please ..

Manny THINKS he knows... I'm guessing YOU are referring to 'hispanics' ( immigrants ) ?

Geographical proximity to Latin America.  Many outsiders enter the USA through these four states.  Many non-native born residents are located in these four states.  The one outlier is New Mexico.  My guess is that the routes through Arizona and Texas afford easier entry than NM.  FL does not need to physically adjacent to Latin America as the "boat people" used the water to get to the USA.

So it's the wetbacks then? Moby will be upset.  :chuckle:

You have to consider the historical progression of these four states over the last two centuries.  We do not exactly know who comprises the large uptick in cases in the southern USA.  As in NYC region, there is a much more mixed ethnic population in these four states.  And with AZ and FL (and even in CA and TX), there are a large number of retired "old fogeys" living there now.   :-\ :travel:

When the National emergency was declared on March 13, 2020, I was surprised that the western and eastern port cities got the massive uptick in infections.  But the entry through the air via overseas is what allowed that to happen.  I had always thought that the retired haven regions would be the 'perfect target' for the spread of the virus.  These regions thought that they "got lucky" and avoided the massive number of cases at the start as NYC took the big hit.  Now they have exceeded the NYC daily numbers. :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 14, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
 We're having a flare up of new cases here in my little corner of the world too. Some of the cases are not linked to previous ones.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-covid-19-july-13-1.5648033

 When they first started the lockdowns they were saying we just had to get past the incubation period of the virus and we''ll be ok. Now they say we have to slow it down until a vaccine is available. Well how long will that take? They never did produce one for SARS. It's beginning to look like eventually we are all going to get it unless we stay cooped up and isolated for the rest of our lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 14, 2020, 10:00:36 PM

Geographical proximity to Latin America.  Many outsiders enter the USA through these four states.  Many non-native born residents are located in these four states.  The one outlier is New Mexico. 

The 'outlier' is not only New Mexico..

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html)

Look at the Map


(https://i.imgur.com/0GbUVcG.png)

Please explain 'Washington state ... 'pesky Chinese Canadians'  from Redmond, BC, 'sneaking over the border' ? ..  Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, New York state .. ( more 'pesky Canadians?)

My image of the FSU ladies on a boat trip  in San Diego ( from last weekend ) shows that social distancing was being ignored ..'We' reap what we sow..

'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 17, 2020, 07:34:13 PM
Well we have people tying to get the disease. You guys might enjoy the video about how dumb some people can be. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-parties-spreading-infection/vi-BB16SGrG?ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 18, 2020, 12:25:48 PM
Masks are pretty much a debit for healthy people.


By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.

Russell Blaylock, MD



https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on July 18, 2020, 05:44:13 PM
Masks are pretty much a debit for healthy people.


By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.

Russell Blaylock, MD



https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/

If one has the virus I would suggest you stay quarantined and not go anywhere without a mask.  So stay home like a good boy and you won't have to wear one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 18, 2020, 11:18:01 PM
Masks are pretty much a debit for healthy people.


By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.

Russell Blaylock, MD



https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/

If one has the virus I would suggest you stay quarantined and not go anywhere without a mask.  So stay home like a good boy and you won't have to wear one.

Someone is being foolish and making an ASSumption. It’s bad enough when moldy engages in this sort of BS, how about you stay home since you’re old, fearful, slightly paranoid and prone to believing death cult propaganda?

The rest of us healthy young positive people will continue as normal.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 18, 2020, 11:31:23 PM


Someone is being foolish and making an ASSumption. It's bad enough when moldy engages in this sort of BS, how about you stay home since you're old, fearful, slightly paranoid and prone to believing death cult propaganda?

The rest of us healthy young positive people will continue as normal.  :whistle:

I was going to let your cko MD's link slide, but as you foolishly brought me up ..

Foolish is behaving like this pandemic was 'beaten'  and living life normally.

Your v.own nation's increase in new cases PROVE that ...

YOUR v.own CDC is suggesting more deaths in the next four weeks than the previous 4 weeks  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/forecasting-us.html

Barcelona, Spain has a surge in cases  https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/18/four-million-people-in-catalonia-asked-to-stay-at-home-amid-coronavirus-surge

Californians were following your 'advice' and that has 'worked out well' for them...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 19, 2020, 03:23:31 AM
From the 'Tory'graph in the UK

Don't know if you can all see all of the article..

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/analysis-blm-protests-crowded-beaches-eased-lockdown-have-not/

I am a little concerned that the UK's new case rate rose...this week..

Could be more testing...or 'we' are easing off the brakes too soon?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on July 19, 2020, 07:22:46 AM
Masks are pretty much a debit for healthy people.


By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.

Russell Blaylock, MD



https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/

If one has the virus I would suggest you stay quarantined and not go anywhere without a mask.  So stay home like a good boy and you won't have to wear one.

Someone is being foolish and making an ASSumption. It’s bad enough when moldy engages in this sort of BS, how about you stay home since you’re old, fearful, slightly paranoid and prone to believing death cult propaganda?

The rest of us healthy young positive people will continue as normal.  :whistle:

Explain how one can exhale viruses and be healthy at the same time?     
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 19, 2020, 08:16:57 AM
Confederate, one can be generally healthy but still carry an infection. Health is not a binary state, there's a gradation from absolutely unhealthy (dead) to absolutely healthy (nothing at all wrong with a person).

The main benefit of wearing a mask is to protect the people around the wearer given that as individuals we havno way to know if we are carrying or spreading Coronavirus.

An appropriate, well fitted, mask can provide some level of protection to an uninfected wearer but that's not why mask wearing is suggested or mandated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 19, 2020, 09:26:58 AM
Confederate, one can be generally healthy but still carry an infection. Health is not a binary state, there's a gradation from absolutely unhealthy (dead) to absolutely healthy (nothing at all wrong with a person).

The main benefit of wearing a mask is to protect the people around the wearer given that as individuals we havno way to know if we are carrying or spreading Coronavirus.

An appropriate, well fitted, mask can provide some level of protection to an uninfected wearer but that's not why mask wearing is suggested or mandated.

Andrew I appreciate your thoughtful dialogue. Later when I have more time I will find links to MD’s and others who state there is no evidence that an asymptotic person can transmit the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 19, 2020, 10:11:00 AM
Ted Nugent on CV and America.

You stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made-up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 Get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal.


https://metalheadzone.com/ted-nugent-warns-citizens-about-the-thing-that-might-destroy-america/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 19, 2020, 10:18:32 AM
Confederate, we already know that people infected with coronavirus shed virions before they develop symptoms. That's one of the troublesome issues we face.

There's no such thing as a badge for 'asymptomatic carriers' even if they do not shed virions. It was the Chinese insistence upon the use of appropriate ppe and isolation of all identified carriers that has enabled China to control the plague as well as they have. Sadly, in your country at the worst, and other places less badly, these simple practices are not followed.

So, we wear masks to protect others. We wear well fitted, appropriate, masks to reduce, somewhat, our exposure to the virions shed by others.

This is not difficult to follow.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 19, 2020, 10:29:22 PM
Masks are pretty much a debit for healthy people.


By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.

Russell Blaylock, MD



https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/


That doctor, like Moby's doctor friends he hangs out with think masks are useless and even harms healthy people.  Confederate, if you were locked in a room with someone and that person got a phone call his test results came back positive, what would you do knowing you don't know when somebody will arrive to get you out and there are masks in your pocket? Would you recommend both of you wearing masks, one of you wearing masks and if so, who, or recommend nobody wearing masks based off this article you read?

Masks are filters. Although not perfect, they do filter out of the air most water droplets viruses ride on. So from an infected person's lungs to a healthy person's lungs, TWO filters are better than one or none to stop viruses. It's common sense. In construction, I also demo buildings. The dust can be hazardous. Personnel will wear masks and since we can't put a mask on the building, we get a firehose and douse the building as it's getting demoed. The water catches most of the dust and brings it to the ground.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 20, 2020, 01:07:41 AM
Thanks to my youngest son, I have a grating cough and sound like an old broken church organ for the coming week.

Amazing how alone you are in public places all of the sudden.

I do wear a mask now, to prevent others to catch this horrific cough i do not wish on anyone!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: B.B. on July 20, 2020, 02:35:53 AM
It was the Chinese insistence upon the use of appropriate ppe and isolation of all identified carriers that has enabled China to control the plague as well as they have.

Um, China drags people off to concentration camps and/or seals them in their flats and then puts out...whatever numbers they feel like.

In point of fact, China did NOT quarantine Wuhan with then should have – they let 5M people leave and travel around the country for Chinese New Year, because: New Year.  When Chinese laboratories identified a mystery, highly infectious disease, the government ordered them to stop testing, destroy samples, delete lab work and suppress the news.  Doctors were not allowed to report cases they encountered and were silenced from communicating among themselves, and in some cases fired from their jobs, and do those "self-denunciations" that the commies are so fond of.

How negligent was China?  Pretty negligent, as it turns out: “If {non-pharmaceutical interventions} could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier in China, cases could have been reduced by 66%, 86%, and 95%, respectively, together with significantly reducing the number of affected areas.” (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.03.20029843v3) 

Oopsy. 

So yeah, if China REALLY had their shit together, we wouldn't be having all this nonsense, so we can dispense with the whole "China is wonderful" bit; it just ain't so.

B/B
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: B.B. on July 20, 2020, 02:43:24 AM
Saw this online earlier and I admit, I chuckled.

B/B

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: B.B. on July 20, 2020, 02:53:43 AM
For folks wondering about New Mexico, they don't have many big cities.  The biggest city in NM, population-wise is Albuquerque, in terms of metro area population, is less than 25% the size of Phoenix.

Other fun facts: NM is 45th in population density, whereas California & Florida would be in the top dozen, along with many of the other states that got nailed early (AZ is middle of the pack, near 32nd, TX is top half).  To their credit, NM did shut down earlier along in their process, but it's not like people are living on top of each other there, either.

If you look at states that had it the worst, they have big port cities/air hubs, so opportunity for the virus to enter the country and then spread among people in close quarters.

B/B
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 20, 2020, 09:28:21 AM
It was the Chinese insistence upon the use of appropriate ppe and isolation of all identified carriers that has enabled China to control the plague as well as they have.

Um, China drags people off to concentration camps and/or seals them in their flats and then puts out...whatever numbers they feel like.

In point of fact, China did NOT quarantine Wuhan with then should have – they let 5M people leave and travel around the country for Chinese New Year, because: New Year.  When Chinese laboratories identified a mystery, highly infectious disease, the government ordered them to stop testing, destroy samples, delete lab work and suppress the news.  Doctors were not allowed to report cases they encountered and were silenced from communicating among themselves, and in some cases fired from their jobs, and do those "self-denunciations" that the commies are so fond of.

How negligent was China?  Pretty negligent, as it turns out: “If {non-pharmaceutical interventions} could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier in China, cases could have been reduced by 66%, 86%, and 95%, respectively, together with significantly reducing the number of affected areas.” (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.03.20029843v3) 

Oopsy. 

So yeah, if China REALLY had their shit together, we wouldn't be having all this nonsense, so we can dispense with the whole "China is wonderful" bit; it just ain't so.

B/B

It appears they did have there stuff together. If they were going to have a virus they made sure the rest of the world was going to have it also.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 20, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Some people need to do some maths. Those same people might want to  consider removing the beam from their own eye before castigating others for not having removed the splinter from theirs.

Yeah, I get it maffs is hard.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 20, 2020, 10:50:03 PM
North Korea which has no virus cases is now developing a vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-north-korea-says-its-joining-the-coronavirus-vaccine-race-even-though-it-has-no-cases/ar-BB16XfMW?ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 21, 2020, 06:31:15 AM
I have a friend that has rental houses in Florida though he live in Texas. We went back to over see work on a roof on one of the houses. His younger sister got Covid-19. She is a medical doctor and she still did not realize what was happening to her. She had a physical injury where she hit her head. She was acting strange so he took he to the hospital. They test all the patients and when they tested her, she was positive. She had tested a few days earlier and it was negative. They did a blood ox test on her and determined she was in bad shape and her strange behavior was caused by a lack of oxygen not the injury. She was moved to intensive care. They gave her what treatments that were available and she continued to get worse. There they gave her a new drug that is under trial that was a anti body substitute. One day latter she was getting better. His other sister also tested positive but she seem to be doing OK and is at home trying to get better. He has a heart condition so there is some worry about him. They tested him but somehow it got lost. So he is going to get a new test today.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 21, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
North Korea which has no virus cases is now developing a vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-north-korea-says-its-joining-the-coronavirus-vaccine-race-even-though-it-has-no-cases/ar-BB16XfMW?ocid=U218DHP


If North Korea deems it safe and effective 3 months from now, will anybody here want it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 21, 2020, 09:34:16 AM
 “He had dismissed the President’s efforts to promote a known malaria medication as treatment for severe corona patients as “anecdotal,” even though seven years before he backed the same drug. He has publicly taken projections from an institute created in Washington State by the Gates Foundation, the same foundation that virtually owns the WHO and owns major stakes in the leading vaccine makers, to claim that up to 200,000 Americans could die from COVID19. Fauci stated that COVID19 is “probably about 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu,” which would mean 300-600,000 coronavirus deaths this year, at the same time in a respected medical journal he compared Covid-19 as similar to seasonal flu in morbidity


http://fort-russ.com/amp/2020/04/shedding-light-on-the-dishonorable-record-of-dr-fauci-a-real-mengele/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 21, 2020, 10:23:43 AM
What is this need to 'diss' Dr Fauci?

He's clearly more clued up than 'Trampu' re the Virus and certainly re the non efficacy of HCQ.

Only a total clueless wacko thinks THAT med can 'help'...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 21, 2020, 11:49:28 AM
Billy, why not?

If the testing is good and shows safety and efficacy then why not. However, by then the British and Russian vaccines will be entering production.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 21, 2020, 01:29:43 PM
Billy, why not?

If the testing is good and shows safety and efficacy then why not. However, by then the British and Russian vaccines will be entering production.

The British were quite a bit behind us last month when I read about it and said that their vaccine would be ready in September. I wait on that one let a few millions of you blots try that one out first. I have no idea of the safety of the Russia vaccine so I wait on that one also. Modena had completed their vaccine in February and have spent all these months testing. Testing should not complete until January. I think I will wait. Most likely the first vaccine will be north Korea. I am not wanting to try it neither.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 21, 2020, 02:37:54 PM
North Korea which has no virus cases is now developing a vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-north-korea-says-its-joining-the-coronavirus-vaccine-race-even-though-it-has-no-cases/ar-BB16XfMW?ocid=U218DHP

From the article:

Quote
So why would a country that hasn't claimed a single case of Covid-19 and is in economic dire straits spend time, money and resources on developing a vaccine?

Its obvious.

Like anywhere in Asia, they have universities, medical laboratories and some good brains there. If they happened to crack the vaccine, and somebody has to, that would be billions of dollars and sanctions ended overnight.

Kim Jong-Un - saviour of the world. Wouldn't that be a headline?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 21, 2020, 03:32:47 PM
Texan, of course I discounted anything that 'might' happen in the USA because it is very unlikely that most people will be able to benefit from whatever 'might' happen with any US developed vaccine. On the other hand both the UK and Russia are being open about the vaccines they are working on. Russia has already licensed all the IP to the British project and they've already said that any Russian projects will be made available globally.

Oh, as for timings, the Astra Zeneca project in the UK is now in 3rd stage trials, started a couple of weeks ago. Moderna are due to start in a few days in the USA.

Russia has been using a vaccine for a couple of months. It is in testing at the moment but has been made available to key personnel in government, business and military with, it seems, good effect.

China is entering phase three trials before the end of July.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 21, 2020, 06:56:57 PM
Billy, why not?

If the testing is good and shows safety and efficacy then why not. However, by then the British and Russian vaccines will be entering production.

If NK deems their vaccine safe and effective but your country doesn't, you'd take it? If North Korea doesn't allow experts from other nations in to monitor their phase 1-3 trials, no nation will just take their word that it works.


The British were quite a bit behind us last month when I read about it and said that their vaccine would be ready in September.


AstraZeneca should be moving along quite well. America gave them over a billion dollars and secured 300 million doses for ourselves. Trump looking after Americans.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/coronavirus-us-gives-astrazenena-1-billion-for-oxford-vaccine.html

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 21, 2020, 10:45:49 PM


Its obvious.

'Sure' it is ..

..and on whom were /are  all the tests done..  'volunteers', for the good of the state .. ?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 21, 2020, 11:54:19 PM
There will likely be about twenty vaccines complete testing with in a few months of each other. This will be needed because no single company or even country can produce and distribute enough vaccine to vaccinate the world's population in a timely manner. Remember even a hundred million doses is very little in a world of over 8 billion people.

AstraZeneca and Moderna should start production in about November if the test are going well. This way they can have millions of doses produced by the time the trial ends in about January.  It will be barely a drop in the bucket of what is needed. Even if most of the twenty vaccine finally get approved it will likely be six months before most of the world will be able to get a shot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 22, 2020, 12:05:47 AM

Have no fear. Everybody is producing vaccines

I got at least two vaccines brewing in my back yard. University of Washington, which has one of the best medical programs in the country, has positive results with vaccine that created strong immune response in mice and monkeys. Also, the experimental vaccine induced a strong immune response after a single dose and immunity increased over time. The Kaiser Permanente Washington Research Institute in Seattle last week announced a two-dose experimental coronavirus vaccine it’s studying provided an immune boost in humans. A 30,000-person study is expected to start by the end of July.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/uw-medicines-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-promising-results/ar-BB170DYU


This vaccine party isn't complete without Iran. Iran has homegrown COVID-19 happening at ballistic missile speed. Ready to test on humans.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-30/iran-says-to-start-human-trials-of-covid-19-vaccine-soon


Ethiopia wants in on the action too. They've announce great success with their vaccine. The question I have is "Who isn't developing a vaccine?" I have a feeling next year billions of people will be injected with crap that doesn't work.

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/tea/science-health/covid-19-ethiopian-drug-ready-for-clinical-trials-1439584


This webpage has a world map of where vaccines are being developed. They have discriminated against North Korea, Iran and Ethiopia

http://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/covid-19-vaccine-race
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 22, 2020, 05:00:01 AM
Billy, you asked whether I'd use a vaccine from North Korea. The answer is, as I noted above, if safe and effective the answer is 'why not?'

As you probably do not know, given your posting, testing is carried out to ensure safety and efficacy. Those results will not be a secret for any product that is destined for use on a wide scale.

Of course, access is an issue. it isn't as though we will have free choice. Access to any single vaccine will depend upon availability.

Personally, I'd be a little surprised to discover that I did not already have an antibody response making a vaccination moot. At some point I will line up and pay the €15 for an antibody test at my health centre.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 22, 2020, 08:15:04 AM
Andrew your immunity from the virus if you had it will last maybe six months. Even healthy people get worse each time they get it because the damage is left from the last time they got it. Test here have shown that people who do not have symptoms are still damaged by the virus.

U.S. health officials agreed pay $1.95 billion for 100 million doses of a vaccine made by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, the latest step in an effort to fight the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/us-orders-up-to-600-million-doses-of-pfizer-biontech-covid-vaccine/ar-BB17359Y?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

Boris has said that only Brits will get vaccine from Oxford vaccine until all brits have gotten an opportunity to have a shot. It is not any different than the USA. I really doubt that Russia is going to send vaccine out before it has its country covered also. The USA will export as much vaccine as it can as soon as we have the problem under control here. It is likely we will end up buying and sending out vaccine to poorer countries to help control the world wise spread of the disease. Just more of Anderw's negative propaganda.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 22, 2020, 08:52:44 AM
Texan77,
1) where do you think I am?
2) you have no way to know how long immunity lasts. You're making stuff up.
3) Russia has said, as with China, that they intend to open source their research. That means that manufacturers will be able to replicate Russian work.
4) Are you so confused that yiu think that the US is buying up manufacturing capacity (which is what it has been doing) in order to give it to people like me before the 'exceptional people' have been dealt with?

Use the little grey cells and don't make stuff up. :)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 22, 2020, 11:42:42 AM
1) where do you think I am?   Uk Estonia? You want an early vaccine move back to the UK. They should be as early if not earlier than the USA.  Likely your first Vaccine will come out of Europe or Russia because you are near these countries.

2) you have no way to know how long immunity lasts. You're making stuff up. Early research in New York has shown the immunity does not last that long. Even shorter often only 90 days in mild cases. There is a huge concern that vaccine will not work because the immunity may not last all that long. Look it up!!!!

3) Russia has said, as with China, that they intend to open source their research. That means that manufacturers will be able to replicate Russian work. There will not likely be much manufacturing ability left to produce any vaccine. There will be a need for all the other vaccines we normal produce in addition to this. In the UK or the USA the research is own by a private company not by the state. Where in Russia and China the research is own by the government.  With twenty vaccine completing no body should have a hard time to find one to make it they want to make one. There are over 117 vaccines in different stages of development. There should not be any kind of shortages of vaccine one could make.


4) Are you so confused that yiu think that the US is buying up manufacturing capacity (which is what it has been doing) in order to give it to people like me before the 'exceptional people' have been dealt with? Why don't you move to the USA and become one of the "exceptional people." Maybe no such thing exist?  Out of the eight billion people on earth only 340 million live in the USA where huge number of people do not believe in a vaccine and will not take it.  After we stabilize the disease in the USA will sell what ever we can abroad. To produce Moderna's vaccine you must be able to do gene splicing. Not everybody can produce this. The large producer of any vaccine will be China because they control most of the world's ability to manufacture it. But they also have a large population. Most likely to Estonia a vaccine will come out of Russia when they have the disease under control there.  They have a small population and will want to stabilize it's borders countries so that should not take long.

You are confused first in thinking that the virus would come and go. Now you coming to the reality the virus is not going anyplace.

Each country will give the vaccine to its own people first if it even works. There is a lot of concern it may not work on older people and it may not produce an immunity that last all that long. Most of the worlds vaccine production facilities are in China and to a lesser extent in India.  I really doubt that there will be any body in these countries who have spare capacity that will not be making a vaccine if there is one.  Both of these countries have large populations that will have needs. Who is going to make this years flu vaccine? I bet flu shots cost a lot this year. 

Early reports I have read show the immunity does not last all that long. It showed in the New York area in mild cases it can be very short as low at 90 days.  If the shots are only good for a short time and people need new shots every few months there will have to be an investment in more manufacturing ability and maybe over a year to build these facilities. Then more time to actually make the vaccine and distribute it. There is the potential for this to be a longer term problem than most people think. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 22, 2020, 02:27:45 PM
Billy, you asked whether I'd use a vaccine from North Korea. The answer is, as I noted above, if safe and effective the answer is 'why not?'

As you probably do not know, given your posting, testing is carried out to ensure safety and efficacy. Those results will not be a secret for any product that is destined for use on a wide scale.


Occasionally you'll read in our media that the government and companies developing vaccines disagree on testing and when to move on to the next step. Government oversight is there with private companies the whole way. If NK says they got a safe and effective vaccine, trusting what they write on paper is not acceptable. Our governments would need at least 6 months to conduct phase 2 and 3 trials to verify for themselves NK's vaccine is safe and effective. So if NK announces they got something safe and effective, I won't take it. I'm even skeptical of western vaccines since governments have relaxed the rules to get a vaccine quickly to the market.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 22, 2020, 02:32:45 PM
This is todays news where this person believes she has gotten it twice about 90 days apart.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/can-you-get-coronavirus-twice-doctors-are-unsure-even-as-anecdotal-reports-mount/ar-BB173Meu?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on July 22, 2020, 06:27:25 PM
2) you have no way to know how long immunity lasts. You're making stuff up. Early research in New York has shown the immunity does not last that long. Even shorter often only 90 days in mild cases. There is a huge concern that vaccine will not work because the immunity may not last all that long. Look it up!!!!

For the good order I changed the colour of the gentleman from Texas to Andrews's post.

While quite busy it is interesting to see the exchange of ideas and information in and between medical and research communities. In the end though one can be comforted I am neither!

What is apparent is there seems to be a growing concern or sense that the Corona virus is more like the flu/cold and not very much a polio or measles type virus. In simple terms it will require yearly? shots to maintain a degree of protection. This line of thinking may prove to be wrong as we have seen the prevailing consensus change as frequently as some females change there hair style/colour.

Texas further raises interesting points worth pondering. I suspect he is correct regarding production of vaccines.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 22, 2020, 08:47:29 PM
Dear Andrew. Here is why a vaccine may not work well. You think I am making this stuff up. The crude first test was done more than a month ago where they did anti body test on people in New York who they knew had the disease to measure the amount of anti bodies they had left. It was noticed the amount of anti-bodies dropped off like a falling rock. It appears that it is turning out to be the case. This is a new test confirming the result.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/coronavirus-antibodies-may-last-mere-months-mounting-evidence-shows/ar-BB16xZJU?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/if-your-coronavirus-case-is-mild-its-not-all-good-news-study-shows/ar-BB173TjY?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 23, 2020, 01:53:25 AM
Tex, at this very point in time, all we have are opinions based on fairly short term data analysis. Concluding anything from that is a bit naive. Go back and re-read the thread from the very beginning, where we’ve all linked something at some point which isn’t accurate at all today. We’re literally talking weeks ago.

Worthy of a discussion yes but gospel no. Until some spokesperson for a combined medical authority stands at a podium and addresses the world with a proven verdict, i’ll assume that our media are continuing to pick up bits and pieces and running with it to write content.

Experts are learning every day and with a number of vaccines and trials being tested as we speak, making any kind of bold statement regarding coronavirus from a news link isn’t going to be terribly credible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 23, 2020, 01:57:58 AM
So if NK announces they got something safe and effective, I won't take it. I'm even skeptical of western vaccines since governments have relaxed the rules to get a vaccine quickly to the market.

I highly doubt N Korean would claim to have the vaccine and the rest of the world would roll up their sleeves or drop their pants to take the shot, without endorsement. That’s just silly. If they do come up with it and credible pharm gives it the thumbs up, then I would of course seriously consider it.

You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea. For people like you, they’d just stick a US flag on it and you’d be happy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 23, 2020, 02:14:53 AM
Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 23, 2020, 09:09:10 AM
Tex, at this very point in time, all we have are opinions based on fairly short term data analysis. Concluding anything from that is a bit naive. Go back and re-read the thread from the very beginning, where we’ve all linked something at some point which isn’t accurate at all today. We’re literally talking weeks ago.

Worthy of a discussion yes but gospel no. Until some spokesperson for a combined medical authority stands at a podium and addresses the world with a proven verdict, i’ll assume that our media are continuing to pick up bits and pieces and running with it to write content.

Experts are learning every day and with a number of vaccines and trials being tested as we speak, making any kind of bold statement regarding coronavirus from a news link isn’t going to be terribly credible.

I did not make a bold statement I just said it may not work well and show why their might be a problem. .
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 23, 2020, 09:14:34 AM
Tex, at this very point in time, all we have are opinions based on fairly short term data analysis. Concluding anything from that is a bit naive. Go back and re-read the thread from the very beginning, where we’ve all linked something at some point which isn’t accurate at all today. We’re literally talking weeks ago.

Worthy of a discussion yes but gospel no. Until some spokesperson for a combined medical authority stands at a podium and addresses the world with a proven verdict, i’ll assume that our media are continuing to pick up bits and pieces and running with it to write content.

Experts are learning every day and with a number of vaccines and trials being tested as we speak, making any kind of bold statement regarding coronavirus from a news link isn’t going to be terribly credible.

I did not make a bold statement I just said it may not work well and show why their might be a problem. .

I'm not accusing you of anything Tex. You just said that antibodies dropped off like a falling rock and that early research seemed to back that up. I'm just saying I wouldn't hang my hat on anything until the proper results are out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 23, 2020, 09:59:02 AM
Rosco, the poor Americans are in a bad position. While it is true that the whole Covid-19 thing has become politicised in many countries, including the UK, the USAians are victim of politicisation of the issue on a level that is hard for us over here to comprehend.

One way that I try to understand what is going on is to maintain a subscription to https://www.medscape.com/ which is one of the few places that maintains links to primary sources and that is dealing with professionals in the field. I get a summary email each day and have access , as a researcher, to some links that are not public. While I had to register as a researcher to get full access it is not difficult to be accepted.

Of course, most people do not seek out primary sources and are content with the echo chamber that is most news/entertainment media.

Here's a link to the Medscape Coronavirus resource page.https://www.medscape.com/resource/coronavirus?

Worth a look on that page right now is an article about the use of UV light to kill Coronavirus. Remember how Trump was castigated for mentioning the possibility a few weeks ago? Turns out he had a point. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/934446 As I recall, he mentioned the possibility of using UV internally. That's not mentioned in the article but it has been under investigation, Trump was not wrong, just remember, he is not a scientist! Here's a link: https://forbetterscience.com/2020/04/27/supposing-you-brought-the-light-inside-the-body/ The article is negative in attitude but it is clear that Trump was not talking out of his arse, there has been serious work on this form of therapy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 23, 2020, 01:33:27 PM
You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 23, 2020, 02:58:12 PM
You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"

Billy, your reply to my post is beyond silly so there’s little point in a full response. Me pointing out the obvious made you accuse me of accepting N Korea propaganda. It’s almost Mobyesk.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 23, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Why start these silly games Moby, what is it that you want from me?

I’ll give you 10 points for each suggestion, of how a biologist could get samples from a worldwide virus, to study in a lab. I’ll start you off, have you heard of cotton buds & test tubes?

As an advanced genetic biologist I expected better from you. I’ll even bung in another bonus point if we stop pretending N Korea had no infection.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 23, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"

Billy, your reply to my post is beyond silly so there’s little point in a full response. Me pointing out the obvious made you accuse me of accepting N Korea propaganda. It’s almost Mobyesk.

You accused me of struggling to accept anything positive coming out of NK. You can't even tell me of one positive thing coming out of NK. You struggle too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 23, 2020, 04:15:32 PM
Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Are you so naive? And again, the BBC isn’t a credible source.

Officially, there was no virus in NK. Because it wasn’t able to be verified. Because sanctions.

Unofficially - some say - there was some virus in NK, it came from a handful of folks who crossed the border before they closed it, and more so Chinese smugglers after.

They nailed it pretty quickly, locked down some areas, got testing kits from Russia and controlled it well. (Some say.)

They haven’t yet announced when they’ll open the borders again. KJU isn’t wearing a mask any more but many officials still are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 23, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
You're once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"

NK makes all kinds of stuff. Ask a sensible question on the NK topic and I'll explain it - and why YOU can't buy it - in the land of the um, free.

On the vaccine, we heard they are working on it. Why shouldn't they? Somebody has to find the vaccine. It probably won't be them, but it just might be, who knows? There is no reason they shouldn't try.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2020, 05:05:21 PM
Tex, at this very point in time, all we have are opinions based on fairly short term data analysis. Concluding anything from that is a bit naive. Go back and re-read the thread from the very beginning, where we’ve all linked something at some point which isn’t accurate at all today. We’re literally talking weeks ago.

Worthy of a discussion yes but gospel no. Until some spokesperson for a combined medical authority stands at a podium and addresses the world with a proven verdict, i’ll assume that our media are continuing to pick up bits and pieces and running with it to write content.

Experts are learning every day and with a number of vaccines and trials being tested as we speak, making any kind of bold statement regarding coronavirus from a news link isn’t going to be terribly credible.

I believe what’s credible is to build up your immunity with a healthy diet, exercise and certain key nutritional supplements.

And if you’re a praying man pray some prayers with positive affirmations.

If you’re Buddhist go and have a blessing and meditate to some healing music.

Having a positive mental attitude cannot be underestimated as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 23, 2020, 06:40:31 PM
You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"

NK makes all kinds of stuff. Ask a sensible question on the NK topic and I’ll explain it - and why YOU can’t buy it - in the land of the um, free.

On the vaccine, we heard they are working on it. Why shouldn’t they? Somebody has to find the vaccine. It probably won’t be them, but it just might be, who knows? There is no reason they shouldn’t try.

Why not them? Name a vaccine NK created? As far as products go, what is China buying from them? What do they make that you will buy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 23, 2020, 06:51:43 PM
You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"

NK makes all kinds of stuff. Ask a sensible question on the NK topic and I’ll explain it - and why YOU can’t buy it - in the land of the um, free.

On the vaccine, we heard they are working on it. Why shouldn’t they? Somebody has to find the vaccine. It probably won’t be them, but it just might be, who knows? There is no reason they shouldn’t try.

Why not them? Name a vaccine NK created? As far as products go, what is China buying from them? What do they make that you will buy?

Pacifiers for ventriloquist dummies?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 23, 2020, 10:54:26 PM

Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Quote from: rosco
Why start these silly games Moby, what is it that you want from me?

I want you to think, before posting  ..

Quote from: rosco
As an advanced genetic biologist I expected better from you. I’ll even bung in another bonus point if we stop pretending N Korea had no infection.

Thank you, so you'll realise my point.. 'no samples'.. on which TO test... having 'no cases'... :coffeeread:

If a nation is daft enough to suggest no cases and boasts of having success on a vaccine.. would YOU trust them ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 24, 2020, 01:36:03 AM

Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Quote from: rosco
Why start these silly games Moby, what is it that you want from me?

I want you to think, before posting  ..

Quote from: rosco
As an advanced genetic biologist I expected better from you. I’ll even bung in another bonus point if we stop pretending N Korea had no infection.

Thank you, so you'll realise my point.. 'no samples'.. on which TO test... having 'no cases'... :coffeeread:

If a nation is daft enough to suggest no cases and boasts of having success on a vaccine.. would YOU trust them ?

I’d suggest you take your own advice.

Whether I trust everything that comes out of N Korea or not, is irrelevant. You’re bickering on about them being unable to study the virus without actually having any cases. This in itself is a depressingly stupid thing for you to say. Do you think biologists need local breakouts to happen in order to test?

If the answers yes then I’d suggest you buy extra plants and stop wasting oxygen. I suspect you’re just here to bait & argue so you can run along little man, I won’t be wasting time on you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 24, 2020, 01:41:15 AM
You’re once again struggling to accept anything positive coming out of N Korea.



So you accept the good news propaganda NK is making good progress with their vaccine? I don't accept it. Tell me what NK is a leader of in this world? What products of theirs people even buy? What private company do they have that can compete with Samsung or Kia? Now you assume they can do something that has never been done by creating a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. They're going to end up buying from China and relabeling the vials "Made in NK"

Billy, your reply to my post is beyond silly so there’s little point in a full response. Me pointing out the obvious made you accuse me of accepting N Korea propaganda. It’s almost Mobyesk.

You accused me of struggling to accept anything positive coming out of NK. You can't even tell me of one positive thing coming out of NK. You struggle too.

Ah the Moby swerve. We talk about being open minded and judging others with fact rather than emotion. You then go off on a tangent to try and make a point.

Billy I’m no fan of N Korea but it’s clear your prejudice can’t allow you to think critically. I don’t want to insult you but you’re sounding similar to our resident lunatic again.

I’m sure some folks discredited good stuff that came out of Germany post Nazis, simply because it was German.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 24, 2020, 03:29:53 AM

Ah the Moby swerve.

..and that's it ...?   :chuckle:

You're doing the swerving - avoiding the answering my point ..'no cases' = no subjects to test ..   You walked right onto a punch, there ..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 24, 2020, 09:49:04 AM

Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Quote from: rosco
Why start these silly games Moby, what is it that you want from me?

I want you to think, before posting  ..

Quote from: rosco
As an advanced genetic biologist I expected better from you. I’ll even bung in another bonus point if we stop pretending N Korea had no infection.

Thank you, so you'll realise my point.. 'no samples'.. on which TO test... having 'no cases'... :coffeeread:

If a nation is daft enough to suggest no cases and boasts of having success on a vaccine.. would YOU trust them ?

I’d suggest you take your own advice.

Whether I trust everything that comes out of N Korea or not, is irrelevant. You’re bickering on about them being unable to study the virus without actually having any cases. This in itself is a depressingly stupid thing for you to say. Do you think biologists need local breakouts to happen in order to test?

If the answers yes then I’d suggest you buy extra plants and stop wasting oxygen. I suspect you’re just here to bait & argue so you can run along little man, I won’t be wasting time on you.

You’re a very good man and a Patriot Rosco.

Responding to moldy brain is complete waste of time.

Don’t give the toxic worm any oxygen and it slithers away.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 24, 2020, 09:55:16 AM
We talk about being open minded and judging others with fact rather than emotion.

Billy I’m no fan of N Korea but it’s clear your prejudice can’t allow you to think critically.



Lol. Remaining ignorant isn't being open minded. I've come to a conclusion about NK and they aren't doing very well compared to most nations. I don't base it off prejudice, just facts. You seem to be resisting the facts and go after anybody that disagrees with your beliefs about NK.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 24, 2020, 09:58:41 AM

Rosco

Thi headline suggests NK was virus free, yes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52146989)

So, please tell us how the NK acquired the virus to test ? ...

Quote from: rosco
Why start these silly games Moby, what is it that you want from me?

I want you to think, before posting  ..

Quote from: rosco
As an advanced genetic biologist I expected better from you. I’ll even bung in another bonus point if we stop pretending N Korea had no infection.

Thank you, so you'll realise my point.. 'no samples'.. on which TO test... having 'no cases'... :coffeeread:

If a nation is daft enough to suggest no cases and boasts of having success on a vaccine.. would YOU trust them ?

I’d suggest you take your own advice.

Whether I trust everything that comes out of N Korea or not, is irrelevant. You’re bickering on about them being unable to study the virus without actually having any cases. This in itself is a depressingly stupid thing for you to say. Do you think biologists need local breakouts to happen in order to test?

If the answers yes then I’d suggest you buy extra plants and stop wasting oxygen. I suspect you’re just here to bait & argue so you can run along little man, I won’t be wasting time on you.

You’re a very good man and a Patriot Rosco.

Responding to moldy brain is complete waste of time.

Don’t give the toxic worm any oxygen and it slithers away.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 24, 2020, 10:10:12 AM
We talk about being open minded and judging others with fact rather than emotion.

Billy I’m no fan of N Korea but it’s clear your prejudice can’t allow you to think critically.



Lol. Remaining ignorant isn't being open minded. I've come to a conclusion about NK and they aren't doing very well compared to most nations. I don't base it off prejudice, just facts. You seem to be resisting the facts and go after anybody that disagrees with your beliefs about NK.

I’m resisting nothing, that’s the point Billy.

You on the other hand......well you’ve come to a conclusion (as you put it) based on how you’ve always perceived the DPRK and you’re unwilling to be open minded or fair going forward. That’s called prejudice.

Until we have the facts, I’m open to the possibility of N Korea attempting to develop a vaccine. Whether they’re successful or not is another thing altogether but there’s some sensible motive for having a go, as Manny has already said. If they strike gold it could be a political master class and a way to rebrand themselves, away from the usual US propaganda.

Anyway, it’s pointless debating what bricks should be used when the house has already been built. You are what you are Billy.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 24, 2020, 10:27:38 AM
well you’ve come to a conclusion (as you put it) based on how you’ve always perceived the DPRK and you’re unwilling to be open minded or fair going forward. That’s called prejudice.


How old are you Rosco? You should be old enough to come to the conclusion that NK is a winner or loser. I've come to my conclusion and you don't like it. I deal with a lot of people. I will come to a conclusion about them. If they are a loser, I don't keep an open mind that maybe someday they can change. If they want to change people's mind, the burden is on them.

Right now the heavily funded and finest labs in the world have secured the materials, which are short in supply, to make vaccines. I don't know what NK is planning to buy to make their vaccine but if you want to believe they got the materials and ability to make a vaccine, although they've never done so, you're free to believe that. I know it's not easy for even the best and brightest in Western medicine to make vaccines. NK is a closed country. Their doctors and scientists don't have an opportunity to exchange ideas with doctors and scientists from the West.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 24, 2020, 11:45:43 AM
I've come to a conclusion about NK and they aren't doing very well compared to most nations. I don't base it off prejudice, just facts.

I took this on a yacht on the Taedong River in Pyongyang.


Observe normal middle class people doing normal things such people do anywhere, eating dinner, drinking wine, watching the cabaret, chilling on the deck overlooking the Juche tower. You'll see all these things people imagine like no electricity are fake news.

Just like Seattle but with fewer french fries, no Coca Cola, slimmer people and less rain.  :P
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 24, 2020, 08:33:41 PM
I took this on a yacht on the Taedong River in Pyongyang.


With a tour guide, you are allowed to see the 1% of NK they want you to see. In America, you're allowed to see 99% of the country without a tour guide.


You'll see all these things people imagine like no electricity are fake news.


I don't remember anybody claiming there is no electricity in NK, just less electricity. There are many private companies governments taking photos of earth at night. NK has much less lights compared to neighbors with similar population densities.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 24, 2020, 11:46:58 PM
I think we debated these things at length on the NK topic and you denied reality there. Even when shown photos that contradicted you.

We get it, your prejudices make you think NK shouldn’t even try to make a vaccine as they’re allegedly “not doing well”. And even they managed it, you’d not use it unless the US FDA approved it. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 25, 2020, 01:51:17 AM
Why shouldn't they make a vaccine if they have away to manufacture it? I am afraid it might be a long time before they would get any if they do not.  I am thinking the world may not have enough manufacturing capability. If they do not have any manufacturing capability then it is a political stunt. If it make them feel important that fine with me go for it. It surely is not blowing any thing up like a nuclear weapon. I hope they have a lot of luck and can control the virus in their country.

This virus has to be controlled in every country on earth or it will come back. If there is one less country to worry about that is better for everyone.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 25, 2020, 09:35:43 AM
NK does have good pharmaceutical manufacturing. A Swiss guy who lived there started it and wrote a book (https://www.amazon.com/Capitalist-North-Korea-Hermit-Kingdom/dp/0804844399).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 25, 2020, 01:02:11 PM
I think we debated these things at length on the NK topic and you denied reality there. Even when shown photos that contradicted you.

We get it, your prejudices make you think NK shouldn’t even try to make a vaccine as they’re allegedly “not doing well”. And even they managed it, you’d not use it unless the US FDA approved it.


None of the photos you posted contradicted anything I said. Many people have traveled the same path you have and posted the photos on the internet. They posted trip reports and they have let those reading they were not allowed to see most of the country, just the part the authorities allowed them to see with their travel guides.

When I see the poorest person on the street, I don't point to him and tell my wife he could invent the next big thing. That is stupid. most men saying that will be one step closer to divorce and I certainly won't tell my wife what Roscoe told me and that is to keep an open mind and be positive that the loser on the street with the least capabilities could someday do something nobody else has ever done.

Why shouldn't they make a vaccine if they have away to manufacture it?


Creating a vaccine is a lot more complicated than mixing water with Kool Aid. The best and brightest minds of humanity have never created a safe and effective vaccine for any coronavirus. What you are likely to see is most attempts at creating a vaccine fail and there are over 125 vaccines currently in development. The few that are chosen will not be totally effective. The vaccines will not work on a certain percentage of the population.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 25, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Well, that was sooner than I expected.
Anyone in Spain at the moment will have to self isolate for 14 days if they go to the UK.

Lots of unhappy tourists.

It was inevitable, the numbers have been sliding up for the past couple of weeks and local lockdowns have been imposed as well as tighter distancing and ppe rules in less affected areas.

I was talking with a mate about it this afternoon and I got my prediction wrong. I expected that a full ban would not happen within two weeks but that Britons over there on holiday would be given a dispensation to return without self isolation.

This is a decision that will not have been taken lightly. I wonder if the situation in Spain is worse than the Spanish government is letting on?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 25, 2020, 06:11:20 PM


A few good websites that track and talk about vaccines and therapies. Chinese labs seem to take the easy route in making vaccines by killing the live/active virus and injecting the dead/inactive virus into people. It's easy to make a safe vaccine with this technique but this technique isn't always successful.

https://www.bio.org/policy/human-health/vaccines-biodefense/coronavirus/pipeline-tracker

https://covid-19tracker.milkeninstitute.org/#vaccines_intro

One link said 199 vaccines are in development. Here are a few types and you can find which lab is developing which type in the second link.

DNA-Based Asian and European labs doing this

DNA-based vaccines work by inserting a genetically engineered blueprint of viral gene(s) into small DNA molecules (called plasmids) for injection into vaccinated people.Cells take in the DNA plasmids and follow their instructions to build viral proteins, which the immune system recognizes as foreign, triggering the immune response that protects against the disease.

Inactivated Virus Chinese labs doing this

This type of vaccine consists of the disease-causing virus that has been killed (with heat or chemicals), so it won’t make you sick, and can be used in people that may not be able to use a live attenuated virus vaccine (e.g., those who are immunocompromised). In general, inactivated virus vaccines do not provide as strong of an immune response as live attenuated virus vaccines, so additional doses of the vaccine may be needed to get a strong enough immune response. Still, they may be safer for some people.

Live Attenuated Virus
Popular with labs in India

In contrast to inactivated virus vaccines, these vaccines, also whole viruses, are live to elicit a stronger immune response but weakened to reduce virulence. Examples include those for measles, mumps, and tuberculosis.

Non-Replicating Viral Vector  Oxford University doing this.

This approach is similar to replicating viral vector vaccines in that a viral gene is added to a different, non-replicating, virus and delivered to the vaccine recipient. No approved product of this kind has resulted to date.

Protein Subunit  various labs around the world taking this route

Rather than introducing whole viruses to an immune system, a fragment of the virus is used to trigger an immune response and stimulate immunity. Examples include the subunit vaccines against hepatitis B and shingles. Examples include the subunit vaccines against Hepatitis B and shingles.

Replicating Viral Vector various labs around the world taking this route

This involves putting a gene for a viral protein into a different virus (one that will not cause illness but can replicate). Replication of the viral vector also produces copies of the viral protein, which triggers an immune response to that protein. Examples include ebola and dengue vaccines.

RNA-Based Vaccine Pfizer and Moderna doing this. Not only has there never been a safe and effective vaccine created for any coronavirus, there has never been an RNA-Based vaccine approved for use against any virus.

Similar to DNA vaccines, these experimental vaccines provide immunity through introduction of genetic material (RNA). RNA vaccines can also be potentially developed more quickly and easily than other vaccines. No RNA vaccines have been approved for human use.

Virus-Like Particle various labs around the world taking this route

Virus-like particle (VLP) vaccines closely resemble viruses but are non-infectious because they contain no viral genetic material. Since VLPs cannot replicate, they provide a safer alternative to attenuated viruses. Examples include the HPV vaccine.

Other various labs around the world taking this route

From a gene-encoded antibody vaccine to a self-assembling vaccine and more, these are the vaccines being developed that do not fall easily into one of the other product categories or details about its category are not publicly available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 26, 2020, 03:34:22 AM
Roscoe told me and that is to keep an open mind and be positive that the loser on the street with the least capabilities could someday do something nobody else has ever done.


Why are you lying Billy, why make stuff up when anyone can scroll back and read what I wrote?

If you can’t understand what I write then we’ll never be having the same discussion. Get yourself back onto fox/cnn & fill your boots. They’ll tell you what you want to hear.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 26, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
you’ve come to a conclusion (as you put it) based on how you’ve always perceived the DPRK and you’re unwilling to be open minded or fair going forward. That’s called prejudice.

Until we have the facts, I’m open to the possibility of N Korea attempting to develop a vaccine.



Roscoe told me and that is to keep an open mind and be positive that the loser on the street with the least capabilities could someday do something nobody else has ever done.


Why are you lying Billy, why make stuff up when anyone can scroll back and read what I wrote?

If you can’t understand what I write then we’ll never be having the same discussion. Get yourself back onto fox/cnn & fill your boots. They’ll tell you what you want to hear.


Roscoe, you can continue to have an open mind and believe the loser nations of the world are able to achieve something that's never been done before.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 26, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
you’ve come to a conclusion (as you put it) based on how you’ve always perceived the DPRK and you’re unwilling to be open minded or fair going forward. That’s called prejudice.

Until we have the facts, I’m open to the possibility of N Korea attempting to develop a vaccine.



Roscoe told me and that is to keep an open mind and be positive that the loser on the street with the least capabilities could someday do something nobody else has ever done.


Why are you lying Billy, why make stuff up when anyone can scroll back and read what I wrote?

If you can’t understand what I write then we’ll never be having the same discussion. Get yourself back onto fox/cnn & fill your boots. They’ll tell you what you want to hear.


Roscoe, you can continue to have an open mind and believe the loser nations of the world are able to achieve something that's never been done before.

And you can continue positing like an ignorant yank who believes they’re the chosen people, sharing a planet with subspecies and mediocrity.

*yawn
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 26, 2020, 04:15:07 PM
I recall Billy & Tex giving it large on the coronavirus thread about how the USA will fair so much better than everyone else because they've got lots of money and power. There's an inbred superiority complex with some Americans and it kills Billy to accept that North Korea, may now be in a much better position than the US. I agree though, containing outbreaks is much easier with the political systems and culture over there compared to the west and who really knows the extent of it.

Billy needs tales of poverty, famine & death to feed his expectations and anything else causes him to short circuit. I mean, could you imagine a country who has a nuclear programme, having a broader science programme covering other stuff too?! How dare they......they have to fail because its North Korea!! :chuckle:

There are malicious nefarious persons controlling US media sources who really dislike Trump. It would be very easy for them to manipulate the figures for CV and that’s exactly what they’ve done.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 26, 2020, 09:59:57 PM
So you're alleging that there's fewer virus cases in the US than reported?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 26, 2020, 10:20:36 PM
 Yep, it's been in the news for a couple weeks now about how the amount of positive test results have been unrealistic.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Another Orlando-area lab, Veteran’s Medical Center, listed "a positivity rate of 76 percent," but a company official said that "the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 27, 2020, 01:59:04 AM
I recall Billy & Tex giving it large on the coronavirus thread about how the USA will fair so much better than everyone else because they've got lots of money and power. There's an inbred superiority complex with some Americans and it kills Billy to accept that North Korea, may now be in a much better position than the US. I agree though, containing outbreaks is much easier with the political systems and culture over there compared to the west and who really knows the extent of it.

Billy needs tales of poverty, famine & death to feed his expectations and anything else causes him to short circuit. I mean, could you imagine a country who has a nuclear programme, having a broader science programme covering other stuff too?! How dare they......they have to fail because its North Korea!! :chuckle:

There are malicious nefarious persons controlling US media sources who really dislike Trump. It would be very easy for them to manipulate the figures for CV and that’s exactly what they’ve done.

Without sounding like I’m sitting here with a tin foil hat on, I’m starting to think that covid-19 has been exaggerated or overstated in some way. We can’t deny that there is a virus doing the rounds but how lethal and how dangerous it is, is still an unknown. We still don’t know how it started.

Anyone can manipulate stats to back up an argument for or against but it seems to me that the worst affected countries are western first world ones. I’d imagine the shit holes of the world should be top of that list.

I refer back to Sweden and look forward to how the rest of the year plays out. They did virtually nothing yet 75% of deaths were in care homes and 90+ % of the other deaths were in the 80+ age group. Sweden still doesn’t enforce face mask usage.

The question is, who gains from a global pandemic? My best guess would be people looking to hit 2025 climate targets or wealthy investors. Time will tell I guess.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 27, 2020, 04:47:01 AM
I am more inclined to think that there's an abundance of caution in play.

Imagine the outcry in Cootistan and some other places if the governments came out and said 'it only kills old people, just let your granny die and carry on with normal life'.

The deniers are a very vocal group but are very much a minority of the population in the USA, UK and elsewhere. The deniers might be happy to write off people in vulnerable groups but most people are not of the same mind.

The Swedes had some specific legal barriers to enforced lockdowns but have said that, with hindsight, they'd have handled matters differently.

It'd be wrong to suggest that poorer countries seem to get off lightly - the numbers suggest otherwise. Also, because of the lack of resources for care, many people will never come into contact with the health services and so never be identified as infected or having died with Covid-19. Don't forget that in the UK and elsewhere, initially, people with coronavirus without severe symptoms were advised to stay at home and work through the illness on their own due to lack of resourced. That'll be happening in many places right now.

Too often we focus on the number of dead as the measure of the impact of the plague. The dead are a small part If the overall problem. Its the vastly greater number of people who are infected and need care that are the real concern.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 27, 2020, 05:45:15 AM
All fair points.

I was speaking to my neighbour this morning and she told me that a distant elderly relation had recently lost his life, having been battling a number of issues. His death was marked down as Covid-19 and the family are really unhappy with the doctors. A story like this isn't isolated and I wonder why a doctor with years of experience, knowingly attributed covid as the cause of death, when he knew that the patient was dying from multiple problems previously? Has he been told to do so?

It's something that needs explaining so at the very least, people stop speculating.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 27, 2020, 09:05:23 AM
Rosco, there's a couple of things. First death certificates may say either died with or died of. There's plenty of evidence that grieving rellos who may never have seen the document are confused in their reporting. Even if the document was seen and was correctly reported by the grieving rellos there are other issues.

Second, in cases where there are multiple contributors to the death there's a question to answer: if the person did not have covid-19 would they still be alive?

If the answer is, yes, without the infection the person would still be alive then the cause of death is covid-19.

To use a hypothetical example; I have hypertension. Hypertension could cause issues that lead to my death, although the proximate cause would likely be some kind of pulmonary issue.
If I were to contract covid-19 then the chances of me dying are much greater than if my blood pressure was normal. If I were to die would it be my hypertension that was the cause of my death?
Of course, it'd be the coronavirus.
If the stress of the infection led to me having a hypertension related stroke would it be coronavirus that got me? Well, given that without the covid-19 I'd not have had the stroke, I reckon that the cause was covid-19.

If the issue that tips the balance is the infection then it seems correct to note a cause of death as covid-19. It is vital that the other issues are also recorded for subsequent analysis. This enables changes to be recorded in the future in line with future analysis.

Another point is that for statistics it is important to note these things on death certificates and so so as consistently as possible because later on these documents will be revisited and the counts may be changed in the light of later knowledge. If we do not put this stuff on the Death certificates then we can never carry out detailed analysis with the benefit of time. The numbers will undoubtedly change in the future but for now we need to put the information on the certificates.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 27, 2020, 09:44:01 AM
Yep, it's been in the news for a couple weeks now about how the amount of positive test results have been unrealistic.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Another Orlando-area lab, Veteran’s Medical Center, listed "a positivity rate of 76 percent," but a company official said that "the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent."

Thank you!

Yep, it's been in the news for a couple weeks now about how the amount of positive test results have been unrealistic.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/florida-lab-admits-its-covid-positivity-rate-was-inflated-90

Another Orlando-area lab, Veteran’s Medical Center, listed "a positivity rate of 76 percent," but a company official said that "the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 27, 2020, 09:49:12 AM
All fair points.

I was speaking to my neighbour this morning and she told me that a distant elderly relation had recently lost his life, having been battling a number of issues. His death was marked down as Covid-19 and the family are really unhappy with the doctors. A story like this isn't isolated and I wonder why a doctor with years of experience, knowingly attributed covid as the cause of death, when he knew that the patient was dying from multiple problems previously? Has he been told to do so?

It's something that needs explaining so at the very least, people stop speculating.

You’re 100% correct, manipulated cause of death has become very common.

And we know the msm will NEVER report the truth as it doesn’t fit preferred story.

Agenda: destroy Trumps economy, blame him, try to ruin his re-election.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 27, 2020, 11:10:39 AM
Our forum gossip still cannot recognise fact from fiction.

The UK govt persisted with hospital deaths and home / care home deaths may have been 50 percent MORE.

The clue for the hapless conspiracy theorist was the number of deaths above average.

Ooops:

Please tell us those numbers were 'exaggerated', too.

What is more telling is one member was telling us the UK's test numbers were valid and accurate when they were being counted TWICE....

'

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 27, 2020, 11:19:36 AM

Geographical proximity to Latin America.  Many outsiders enter the USA through these four states.  Many non-native born residents are located in these four states.  The one outlier is New Mexico. 

The 'outlier' is not only New Mexico..

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html)

Look at the Map


(https://i.imgur.com/0GbUVcG.png)

Please explain 'Washington state ... 'pesky Chinese Canadians'  from Redmond, BC, 'sneaking over the border' ? ..  Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, New York state .. ( more 'pesky Canadians?)

My image of the FSU ladies on a boat trip  in San Diego ( from last weekend ) shows that social distancing was being ignored ..'We' reap what we sow..

'

Many of the "hotspots" are cities with hub airports.  Especially from planes that come from outside the USA.  Canada has fewer infections and closed all nonessential travel from people in the USA.  I read an article about a service station owner who has a Chevron station in Blaine, WA who was trying to expand his business with customers from Canada.  The coronavirus made a big hit to his business.  It is now deserted at the border crossing.  I was at that crossing last year.  Long lines of cars waiting to enter the USA.  Not anymore.

The issue is that people do not and cannot endure a long term social distance period.  I am OK with it because I have been "socially distant" since I was a young kid.   :biggrin: tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 27, 2020, 11:39:09 AM
Quote
“Clearly there has been a failure in the operation of this program,”
“Pretending that it is [over] because we all want it to be over is not the answer,” he said. “It is indeed part of the problem.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-is-back-with-a-vengeance-in-places-where-it-had-all-but-vanished/ar-BB17eAg9

I guess the success stories are not so successful after all.    :duh: :P (:) :'(

Quote
Delaware's Health and Social Services department said the 12 individuals, who were all infected with the virus, were told over the phone that their test results came back negative due to "an internal DPH system error."

https://www.businessinsider.com/12-people-infected-with-coronavirus-falsely-told-they-tested-negative-2020-7

So are you REALLY negative??    (:) :'( :biggrin: :evilgrin0002: :chuckle:


Quote
State officials said that after reviewing all 2,791 samples gathered at the Walgreens locations, it determined that no one was given a false-positive diagnosis. 

Thank goodness, only false negatives to be concerned with.   (:) :biggrin: :Zzzzsleep: :duh: ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 27, 2020, 12:14:45 PM
 Ok, now it makes sense why WHO was kissing China's ass and covering for them.
 China's president's wife is a member

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 27, 2020, 01:24:17 PM
Quote
We do pandemics, it turns out, how we’ve come to do everything else: What’s best for me?

But, then, we also decided a month ago we had the stomach for baseball in a pandemic, that we could live with other people in that arena, that what we really needed was a distraction from the real world.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-marlins-covid-19-outbreak-is-really-bad-and-exactly-what-mlb-signed-up-for-160751017.html

You all want to follow David Farragut's famous quote  - "Damn the torpedoes.  Full speed ahead".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Farragut

 :ROFL: :trainwreck: :GRAVE: :LIMP: :HOSPITAL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 27, 2020, 03:07:57 PM
Quote
Emirates has a new strategy for boosting passenger demand in the midst of a global pandemic: coronavirus insurance. If one of its passengers is diagnosed with COVID-19 during their journey, the Dubai-based airline will cover their medical expenses, up to €150,000 (about $176,000). It will pay €100 ($118) per day for quarantine costs — such as a hotel room — for up to two weeks.

And if the worst happens, Emirates will offer €1,500 (about $1,765) for a passenger's funeral.

https://www.businessinsider.com/emirates-coronavirus-medical-coverage-funeral-pandemic-2020-7

The average cost of a funeral is approaching $10K USD.   $1765 USD barely covers the non-declinable administrative fee charged by most funeral homes.  This is like the SSA death benefit of $255.  Chump change.   :GRAVE: :euro-smile: :rouble-smile: :money:

https://www.overnightcaskets.com/caskets/

I suppose it will cover the cost of the casket.  Then all you need is a volunteer undertaker and grave digger.   :chuckle: :bow: ??? :duh: :GRAVE:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 27, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
 Pretty interesting video here, frontline doctors speak out about corona virus. They swear hydroxy works. The black lady doctor a few minutes into the video says she has treated over 350 patients with it and NONE have died. She gave it to her staff and none have become sick. And she is pissed at Fauci! Are we being lied to?

https://www.pscp.tv/BreitbartNews/1ynJOqPBaeXKR

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 27, 2020, 09:21:30 PM

Hospitals can handle all the illnesses and injuries of the community. COVID-19 alone can overwhelm hospitals. For the doubters, go to a city or country like NYC or Italy who failed to stop the spread in time and observe what goes on in their hospitals. Observe the refrigerated truck outside the hospitals. Go to the local morgues. Ask all involved if they are inflating the numbers or participating in some type of lie. COVID-19 is real and if allowed to spread unrestricted, hospitals will be overwhelmed and a lot of people are going to die. Because we have taken action, it seems COVID-19 isn't a big threat but the smart people know after seeing what happened to Italy and NYC.

Although action was taken against the spread in the UK, in about two months 1 out of every 1500 UK citizens died. At that pace without an exponential increase, 1 out of every UK citizens would be dead in the span of a year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 28, 2020, 03:36:17 AM
British tourists returning to the UK from Spain now must have 14 days of self isolation. The decision was taken very suddenly.

Spanish infections had jumped by 75% in just 2 weeks but it looks as though the breaking point was that since Spain was opened up for British tourists 10 returning holidaymakers had contracted the virus.

People can still go to Spain but normal travel insurance coverage will no longer apply and, of course, 14 days self isolation will mean that very few people will now go to Spain.

In Benidorm hotels are once again closing down. The cost of opening and closing suggests that places will simply remain closed even if the route reopens again in a few weeks. The cost of opening in this uncertain environment means that waiting out the crisis is likely the best policy.

There's talk of Germany and France also being closed down as their infection rates are jumping. The UK government has not published a threshold figure at which closure will take place but it is probably similar to Estonia where the figure is 16/100,000 in the previous 2 weeks with a margin of 1.6 to account for transient events in data collection.

The UK is likely to be using the threshold in addition to other criteria.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 28, 2020, 11:00:52 AM
Quote
Trump also had the option of appealing the lockout, but it appears the tweet has been deleted. It linked to a video that included false information about COVID-19. It shows several people wearing white lab coats who claim to be "America's Frontline Doctors” as they hold a press conference in front of the Supreme Court.

"This virus has a cure, it's called hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and Zithromax," said Dr. Stella Immanuel in the video. "You don't need masks, there is a cure." Multiple studies have debunked those claims, which also run contrary to advice from public health officials. Dr. Immanuel has a long history of promoting dangerous medical claims. She has, for instance, suggested alien DNA is used in some treatments and that microchips are being implanted in people via vaccines.

On Monday, Breitbart published the video on Facebook, where it had more than 14 million views and hundreds of thousands of shares. Facebook later removed the video, which it says shared “false information about cures and treatments for COVID-19.” Versions of the video popped up on YouTube and Twitter, both of which deleted it too in line with their COVID-19 misinformation policies. Dr. Immanuel suggested that if Facebook didn’t restore the video of her Supreme Court speech, Jesus Christ would crash the company’s servers.

Trump’s father, President Donald Trump, also shared the video on Twitter on Monday. Those tweets have since been removed, but Twitter did not otherwise suspend or lock the president’s account.

https://www.engadget.com/twitter-donald-trump-jr-suspended-141612714.html

Everybody thinks they have the answer.  The reality is that no one does.  The "top of the food chain" is going to be taken several notches down.   :duh: (:) :P :'( :dh:

Jesus Christ?  What about King Hammurabi???     :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 28, 2020, 08:02:15 PM
 Wow, there was quite a commotion over that video! I see it is deleted from my link above too. Amazing how fast they got together to shut it down, facebook, twitter, youtube all deleted it.  Facebook reports it was viewed over 17 million times before they shut it down, maybe that's why they worked so fast to get rid of it, word was spreading fast. Today, just one day later you will find articles discrediting those doctors who did the video, like Dcguys link above, then you will find articles saying big pharma companies don't want you to know the truth, like this one...

https://www.mrctv.org/blog/big-tech-joins-together-eliminate-hydroxychloroquine-video-social-media?fbclid=IwAR0WMz-wosYh1ZpRMHoHX3cIjjQd-MoHckaPIg-zptV0hNCq03NvVx1lQo8

 I dunno if they really are a bunch of whack jobs in the video or not, but what happened here sure shows you how social media wants to control what you are told. I guess we are not supposed to decide what is true or not for ourselves.

For anyone who is curious about what the video was about here is another link for it that hasn't been deleted.... yet!

 https://www.bitchute.com/video/HeC0tHZDX7dk/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 28, 2020, 11:09:18 PM
I dunno if they really are a bunch of whack jobs in the video or not, but what happened here sure shows you how social media wants to control what you are told. I guess we are not supposed to decide what is true or not for ourselves.

For anyone who is curious about what the video was about here is another link for it that hasn't been deleted.... yet!

 https://www.bitchute.com/video/HeC0tHZDX7dk/

They don’t seem like a bunch of crazies. Interesting that it was mentioned you can buy Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc over the counter in Indonesia and Iran.

I fail to see why social media is removing that video. Unless they’re all in cahoots to make billions from a vaccine.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 28, 2020, 11:47:32 PM

They don’t seem like a bunch of crazies. Interesting that it was mentioned you can buy Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc over the counter in Indonesia and Iran.

I fail to see why social media is removing that video. Unless they’re all in cahoots to make billions from a vaccine.

 Yeah I caught that about getting it over the counter in other countries. Kinda tells you it's all about control in the US. Another thing that surprised me was when one of the doctors mentioned that in the US a pharmacist was allowed to refuse to fill a doctor's prescription! Since when does it make sense that a pharmacist overrules a doctor? That sure seems like an extra way to control what a doctor is allowed to do too.  It sounds like that ruling was passed recently.

 One thing that struck me as strange was how in a matter of less than two months of testing they concluded that hydroxy was a dud, even dangerous to take. They say it takes months, even years to test others drugs yet this, a drug that was deemed safe for other treatments, was rejected so quickly. That in itself is pretty suspicious and made me wonder if there wasn't an ulterior motive behind it. Hydroxy is a really cheap treatment after all, not much money to be made from it.   

 A guy doesn't know what to think anymore. You take a look at Trump who is taking hydroxy and hasn't gotten sick while interacting with so many people, and then the Brazilian President who took it after he contracted it and is now virus free. It makes you wonder if hydroxy had anything to do with it. I wonder if Boris took it when he was sick? lol
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 29, 2020, 03:56:15 AM
Azithromycin is a regular antibiotic for chest infections including pneumonia - so that makes sense. Zinc you can buy over the counter in any vitamin store. Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil in the US I gather) is less easy to get here. 

doctor-4-u.co.uk sells them in the UK for £40 for 60. I dont know what the usual dosage might be or how that compares with US prices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 29, 2020, 05:57:17 AM
OMG...
Another HCQ 'advocate'...?

It is a horrible med and helps unfortunate folks with unpleasant ailments where the 'cure's' side effects are considered 'worth the risks'..

If you want to send the price back up / bring about another shortage for those who really DO see benefits, visit an 'outlier snake oil doctor'.
P
It won't help prevent you getting SARS2-Covid-19, nor help with the effects, but gou can be sure you are a victim of bollox 'clinical trials'...and social media...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 29, 2020, 06:19:44 AM
Looks like they got a vaccine in Russia now and are going to start dishing it out 15th August ...

Im no doctor so not sure if it's all cosha .. apparently they are dishing it out in Moscow first..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 29, 2020, 07:07:19 AM

Russians claim that they have two covid-19 vaccines. They are saying they'll start the mass production of one in September, and the other in October.

One is Gamalei institute, who previously developed MERS vaccine, and say that this one is like a copy-paste. The other is Vector centre in Siberia, who also produced tests that are currently used in Russia.

Source: one of my non existent RU mates)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 29, 2020, 09:04:29 AM

What is more telling is one member was telling us the UK's test numbers were valid and accurate when they were being counted TWICE....


Can you please attribute the quote for this accusation or apologise for lying yet again? Simple stuff so don't back out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 29, 2020, 11:58:20 AM
Yes, Rosco, YOU claimed the UK govt test figures were 'accurate' .. I did keep pointing out they weren't .. Your 'denial' and suggesting I must prove your daftness is telling

You'll now remember I quoted you the Torygraph, last time..

Now you can have SKY..https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-how-did-the-uks-covid-19-testing-data-become-such-a-mess-11999797


 If I'd quoted from the Indy or Guardian - you'd have tried to suggest 'lefty bias'  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on July 29, 2020, 12:41:09 PM
Dr Yim, the China virologist having escaped from University of Hong Kong, claimed that Wuhan Covid-19 virus was artificially fabricated by ChiNazi.  She is gathering more material to show her argument.  She even claimed that she could artificially fabricate the very same virus in laboratory within 6 months.


English Conversation and Description
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 29, 2020, 12:43:12 PM
OMG...
Another HCQ 'advocate'...?

It is a horrible med and helps unfortunate folks with unpleasant ailments where the 'cure's' side effects are considered 'worth the risks'..

If you want to send the price back up / bring about another shortage for those who really DO see benefits, visit an 'outlier snake oil doctor'.
P
It won't help prevent you getting SARS2-Covid-19, nor help with the effects, but gou can be sure you are a victim of bollox 'clinical trials'...and social media...

 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-hydroxychloroquine-n1225091

The medical journal The Lancet on Thursday retracted a large study on the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 because of potential flaws in the research data. The study, published two weeks ago, found no benefit to the drug — and suggested its use may even increase the risk of death.
Thursday's retraction doesn't mean that the drug is helpful — or harmful — with respect to the coronavirus. Rather, the study authors were unable to confirm that the data set was accurate.

"A first-year statistics major could tell you about major flaws in the design of the analysis."


 This is what I was talking about when I questioned how fast they came out saying that hydroxy did not work. They can't even give the data to back their claims. Yet people still insist on parroting their findings. And are so quick to say that doctors who have actually treated patients with it with success are whack jobs.
 I'm not a medical expert like you Moby, maybe it does not work. But it makes no sense that they disregarded it so quickly, and if one of my friends or loved ones died needlessly of corona when there was a treatment that would have avoided that death I would be pissed. At the least I say a person should be given the choice to try it or not, make them sign a waver and let them know the risks. To hold something like this back for monetary or political reasons would be criminal.

 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 29, 2020, 12:45:43 PM

Russians claim that they have two covid-19 vaccines. They are saying they'll start the mass production of one in September, and the other in October.

One is Gamalei institute, who previously developed MERS vaccine, and say that this one is like a copy-paste. The other is Vector centre in Siberia, who also produced tests that are currently used in Russia.

Source: one of my non existent RU mates)

 They are probably hydroxy based!   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 29, 2020, 01:19:08 PM
I got my hair cut and a wee beard trim at a barber today for the first time in 4/5 months. Feeling much better!! I couldn't go to my usual hang out as they now only do online bookings through an app and the first available appointment is in 3 weeks. Passed a good looking place in Perth today and it was empty so I thought I'd dive in.

I wore a mask but the arabic looking guy was just like, whatever. He did a great job and was pretty chatty. It turns out he's from Libya and has a shop in Glasgow too. We got talking about all sorts of stuff and I had to ask the Gaddafi question. Without promoting, he went on to say that his country was in a mess and they've lost their wealth, buying into the IMF etc etc. He said everyone he knows misses Gaddafi big time.

It was interesting to hear because many of the Libyan experts on here say otherwise, but hey what would a Libyan know about his own country. Anyway, this was meant to be a Covid post.

So just as we're getting wrapped up, about a dozen other Libyans types walk in, all varying ages and obviously close friends with the guy. Next follows the as-salamu alaykum stuff that they all do numerous times to each other. Shaking hands, kissing cheeks and embracing.......

Now again, we have the forum expert who claims that the ethnic minorities of the muslim variety in the UK, aren't ignoring social distancing and their culture doesn't make them more likely to catch and spread the virus. Their enclaves are riddled yet our resident expert denies reality. In fact he goes out his way to apologise for them and claims that white christians in the UK are the bad guys!!

It was just a snippet into what really goes on whilst the government plead on all media channels to stay sensible. One can only imagine what the large muslim settlements are like around Europe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 29, 2020, 04:23:00 PM
OMG...
Another HCQ 'advocate'...?

It is a horrible med and helps unfortunate folks with unpleasant ailments where the 'cure's' side effects are considered 'worth the risks'..

If you want to send the price back up / bring about another shortage for those who really DO see benefits, visit an 'outlier snake oil doctor'.
P
It won't help prevent you getting SARS2-Covid-19, nor help with the effects, but gou can be sure you are a victim of bollox 'clinical trials'...and social media...

I watched the video and have read some stuff about it from both sides of the pond. I’m not a doctor but in the video we see real doctors saying it works, and the US prez allegedly taking it.

There’s no money in that drug for big pharma, Gates, et al. But there is in a vaccine. It deserves our attention. We can’t discount it.

And if that cheap licence free drug is available easily in China, guess who has the contacts to get it here faster than I did masks? And not at forty sodding quid a box....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 29, 2020, 10:37:55 PM
..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or[/url]


FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems


My eldest daughter has a form of Lupus and so I might just have heard of this med and its unpleasant side effects / risks .. 

Before any IDIOT posts something along the lines that I'd make something like that up... GET A ( real) LIFE ..


If 'Trampu' thinks taking HCQ to 'prevent' getting SARS-CoV2 is worth the risk of:

 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 29, 2020, 10:42:12 PM
I watched the video and have read some stuff about it from both sides of the pond. I’m not a doctor but in the video we see real doctors saying it works, and the US prez allegedly taking it.


..and became an 'expert'...

When you have someone relying this 'cheap ( [ not so freely available - when COVIDiots thought it had efficacy for treating / preventing  the virus] ) med' ..you'd understand the danger of those picking up outliers 'evidence'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 30, 2020, 12:33:46 AM
So you’re saying those doctors are *all* wrong and you know better?

Did your daughter suffer any side effects from using it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 30, 2020, 01:00:54 AM
Russia plans to launch first vaccine in two weeks by skipping phase three trials. They plan to have 200 million doses soon 30 million made in Russia and the other 170 million made in other countries.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/russia-intends-to-approve-coronavirus-vaccine-despite-safety-concerns/vi-BB17iBM8?ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 30, 2020, 01:18:54 AM

 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:

I don't know where you're getting your info from , but both the Dutch website and drugs.com say the same :



More common

    Diarrhea
    emotional problems
    nausea
    stomach pain

Less common

    Abnormal dreams
    loss of appetite
    skin rash

Rare

    Loss of hair

None of the things you listed, thank you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 30, 2020, 01:24:47 AM

None of the things you listed, thank you.

Oh and also this:
     

Symptoms of overdose

    Drowsiness
    dry mouth
    increased thirst
    loss of appetite
    mood changes
    no pulse or blood pressure

    numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
    unconsciousness

I guess you'd be dead than, that makes sure Corona virus is beaten :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 30, 2020, 01:31:19 AM
My eldest daughter has a form of Lupus and so I might just have heard of this med and its unpleasant side effects / risks .. 

HCQ


For those who don't know, Lupus is a condition where ones immune system can attack ones organs. HCQ suppresses the immune system. One reason people are dying from COVID-19 is because their immune system goes into overdrive and the huge amount of antibodies produced kills every living thing, including healthy tissue. The other reason people are dying is because their immune system isn't strong enough to fight COVID-19. In this situation, a doctor administering HCQ may increase the chances of death.

Folks, it's over for HCQ. Too many trials happened with no significant results. No treatment has ever been created for any coronavirus. What are the chances something already invented for another disease will work on the pathogen of the century? About the same chance as magically pulling a working treatment out of your ass.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 30, 2020, 01:52:20 AM
So you’re saying those doctors are *all* wrong and you know better?

Did your daughter suffer any side effects from using it?

1/ Why are you using the past tense re it's usage

2/ YES, but as she has been hospitalised with the Lupus doing worse damage ... 



 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:


I don't know where you're getting your info from , but both the Dutch website and drugs.com say the same

That was the US' FDA

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on July 30, 2020, 05:08:30 AM
..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?


It should be pointed out that d672 does have is 'very own FDA.' Facts, honesty and thinking are not part of the mental process of those who speak 'Natural English.'
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on July 30, 2020, 05:28:41 AM

 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:

I don't know where you're getting your info from , but both the Dutch website and drugs.com say the same :



More common

    Diarrhea
    emotional problems
    nausea
    stomach pain

Less common

    Abnormal dreams
    loss of appetite
    skin rash

Rare

    Loss of hair

None of the things you listed, thank you.

Sex Drive ?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 30, 2020, 05:43:34 AM
Yes, Rosco, YOU claimed the UK govt test figures were 'accurate' .. I did keep pointing out they weren't .. Your 'denial' and suggesting I must prove your daftness is telling

Start quoting me so we can discuss reality. Arguing with the resident looney over stuff you made up, is a waste of precious time. Can you please quote or bugger off?!

The government were doing 25k tests a day by April 23rd with a target of 100k a day by the end of the month, set on April 2nd. If you're in doubt as to what a target is I've explained it for you below;

Target - an objective or result towards which efforts are directed.

Intelligent people understand that 100k was an ambitious target rounded up to a memorable number, and the government talked about 'carrying out 100k tests a day by the end of April'. This was the kind of ambition the public wanted to see whilst we were locked down and hiding from the virus.

On April 30th, testing figures hit a daily 122,347.

Only anti government idiots creating division would start to split hairs and bicker about 27k home tests and 13k which were sent out to satellite sites. Only complete morons would argue about the actual number of people tested as opposed to what the government actually said which was, 'we pledge to carry out 100k tests daily by the end of the month, which they did. The capacity was there, the testing was made available and the rough target of 100,000 was exceeded. It's a bit like the PPE, it was also in the country and available but just because some people didn't use it, apply for it or stock it, doesn't make it a government mistake.

Now Moby, you're either too thick, too argumentative or too bitter but you wont let your alternative view on reality shout over the facts. I'm not going to argue with you about this because this very post contains the official figures and you choosing to bicker about it, only highlights what kind of person you are.

BTW have you been seen a doctor yet? Your episodes appear to be more regular.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 30, 2020, 06:15:09 AM
By the way, the UK is now far and away the leader in testing among countries with large populations (more than about 10 million) with about 228,000 tests per million population. It looks like about 240,000 tests are being carried out daily.

Going from no infrastructure at all to that is a achievement. Getting some daily reporting of numbers slightly wrong is a small matter because all the data is collected. Collation and analysis takes time. Daily figures should be considered as preliminary estimates until proper, error correction and analysis has taken place.

By the way Lying Moby was at it again up thread with respect to 'double counting'. He wrote in such a way as to suggest that this was a significant issue and still current. Neither were true. The link he provided was months old and made it clear that it was, at the time, a transient error.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 30, 2020, 06:22:42 AM
By the way, the UK is now far and away the leader in testing among countries with large populations (more than about 10 million) with about 228,000 tests per million population. About 120,0000 tests are being carried out daily.

Going from no infrastructure at all to that is a achievement. Getting some daily reporting of numbers slightly wrong is a small matter because all the data is collected. Collation and analysis takes time. Daily figures should be considered as preliminary estimates until proper, error correction and analysis has taken place.

By the way Lying Moby was at it again up thread with respect to 'double counting'. He wrote in such a way as to suggest that this was a significant issue and still current. Neither were true. The link he provided was months old and made it clear that it was, at the time, a transient error.

We both know that lying Moby cant help himself. He feels the need to squeeze the negative out of any situation so it fits the narrative. He's not got the tools to accept situations, that don't feed his little fire.

As you said, going from nothing to that in days is quite an achievement. I'm not sure what he expected but then again, there's more than just one mouth breather out there, being a pain in the arse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 30, 2020, 07:00:24 AM
...

So, now you ARE admitting the govt's. figure were incorrect, but offer excuses.

Worse, you suggest some soft of mental affliction on my part, rather than simy acknowledging," yup, Moby was correct'')))
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 30, 2020, 07:06:06 AM


We both know that lying Moby cant help himself. He feels the need to squeeze the negative out of any situation so it fits the narrative. He's not got the tools to accept situations, that don't feed his little fire.

As you said, going from nothing to that in days is quite an achievement. I'm not sure what he expected but then again, there's more than just one mouth breather out there, being a pain in the arse.

It is hilarious to note your seeking validation from the board's biggest propagator of bollox...given his serial fails on the Russian Rouble recovery...now going on six and hf years and his 'lecture' on testing being proven laughably bogus....given the figures were nonsense..

I feel the need to point out govt figures were darn right and misleading lies.

Your need to 'defend' a proven howler is telling.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 30, 2020, 07:17:28 AM
I got my hair cut ..

Rosco, If you had BEEN to Libya, you would KNOW, that it has reverted back to differing tribal domination. Gaddafi  was popular in Sirte ( his home town) and it was where he made his last stand and died..

If he is a fan of Gaddafi, then that could be a clue as to shy he isn't still in Libya?.....

I know e.Libya, better..Benghazi, Tobruk...he was 'real' popular there...

Few miss his treatment of the majority there...his ensuring only those loyal to him...a minority...got to use the newest medical facilities..

But thanks for demonstrating you still don't know much about Libya....

You may be too young to have an excess of nasal of ear fluff, but such establishments really know how to remove excess hair)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 30, 2020, 07:50:09 AM
...

So, now you ARE admitting the govt's. figure were incorrect, but offer excuses.

Worse, you suggest some soft of mental affliction on my part, rather than simy acknowledging," yup, Moby was correct'')))

Do you mid re-reading my post because you've once again completely misunderstood simple written English. We cannot move forward from this point until you correctly manage to extract the information from the words you read. My dog understands what I'm telling her better than you do.

Me - The sky is blue today.
Moby - Rosco says the ocean is the same as the sky.

 :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 30, 2020, 07:51:56 AM


We both know that lying Moby cant help himself. He feels the need to squeeze the negative out of any situation so it fits the narrative. He's not got the tools to accept situations, that don't feed his little fire.

As you said, going from nothing to that in days is quite an achievement. I'm not sure what he expected but then again, there's more than just one mouth breather out there, being a pain in the arse.

It is hilarious to note your seeking validation from the board's biggest propagator of bollox...given his serial fails on the Russian Rouble recovery...now going on six and hf years and his 'lecture' on testing being proven laughably bogus....given the figures were nonsense..

I feel the need to point out govt figures were darn right and misleading lies.

Your need to 'defend' a proven howler is telling.

Your teacher must be so proud.  :prophead:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 30, 2020, 08:01:08 AM
I got my hair cut ..

Rosco, If you had BEEN to Libya, you would KNOW, that it has reverted back to differing tribal domination. Gaddafi  was popular in Sirte ( his home town) and it was where he made his last stand and died..

If he is a fan of Gaddafi, then that could be a clue as to shy he isn't still in Libya?.....

I know e.Libya, better..Benghazi, Tobruk...he was 'real' popular there...

Few miss his treatment of the majority there...his ensuring only those loyal to him...a minority...got to use the newest medical facilities..

But thanks for demonstrating you still don't know much about Libya....

You may be too young to have an excess of nasal of ear fluff, but such establishments really know how to remove excess hair)

Do you get access to a spell check function? It makes it so much easier for readers who aren't taking the same meds as you.

You simply cant accept that your bigoted views aren't held by the people who actually live there. You allegedly went out and saw action with the blue berets so until such time you explain yourself, I'll throw your knowledge about Libya on the bull shit pile. Why would the high pitched wails from a Guardian reading mad irishman with a lifetime of train wreckage and broken relationships supersede an actual Libyan who lived it all?

The guy's free to go back any time he wants but he told me why, when there's so much violence. I wont waste time explain all of this to you again but I trust what an actual Libyan tells me before listen to some absolute rubbish from the resident troll.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 30, 2020, 08:38:05 AM
Rosco, where Lying Moby is headed right now is to try to force a discussion on just what inaccuracy is. :(

Perhaps by mentioning this I will forestall him, but based on previous experience, I'd suggest that having shown that he was being dishonest about his claims in respect of the collation of data about testing he will focus on the truth that he mentioned inaccuracy in the collation of that data.
That will lead him to suggest by inference that he is entirely correct in all matters related to the data collection in respect of Covid-19.

The truth is that any honest person knows that rapid collection of tens of thousands of pieces of data across the entire United Kingdom will not be 100% all the time. Its a given.

So, Lying Moby will have shifted his point away from specific, time related, very minor, inaccuracies to a point about absolute accuracy - a point never at issue among honest participants in the discussion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 30, 2020, 08:40:51 AM
I wonder just how many of Lying Moby's well informed, absolutely imaginary, eye witnesses to current events in Libya would tell us that they, on the whole prefer the current situation?

I rather doubt that very many Libyan people, no matter their ethnic or religious leanings, would say that they prefer life in Today's failed state.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 30, 2020, 11:19:23 AM
OMG...
Another HCQ 'advocate'...?

It is a horrible med and helps unfortunate folks with unpleasant ailments where the 'cure's' side effects are considered 'worth the risks'..

If you want to send the price back up / bring about another shortage for those who really DO see benefits, visit an 'outlier snake oil doctor'.
P
It won't help prevent you getting SARS2-Covid-19, nor help with the effects, but gou can be sure you are a victim of bollox 'clinical trials'...and social media...

Moby busted posting bullocks again.

What are your qualifications, as a Medical Doctor, to label Hydroxychloroquin as a “horrible med”?

That’s right folks, zero zilch nada, just a rabid troll, busted for stolen valor going back nearly 10 years, someone who possibly suffered a brain trauma falling off a ladder in his sketchy satellite business.

No Medical Degree from a good University, no degree as a Scientist in this field.

Just an incessant troll posting more nonsense from Mum’s basement.

Disregard the troll, read and watch experts, decide for yourself.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on July 30, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
Rosco, where Lying Moby is headed right now is to try to force a discussion on just what inaccuracy is. :(


Bang on.

We're all allowed an opinion on any subject and its a given that we wont all agree with each other all of the time. The general trend on forums where Moby attends, is to have a general group of reasonably normal people agreeing on the principle themes yet lying Moby takes a polar stances and begins to argue about things that haven't been said, stuff that hasn't happened or the inaccuracies that he's introduced. Thus, a never ending cycle of head shaking, fact checking and constant moderation of the resident troll ensues, much to the frustration of the by in large normal pool of sane adults.

I wonder just how many of Lying Moby's well informed, absolutely imaginary, eye witnesses to current events in Libya would tell us that they, on the whole prefer the current situation?

I rather doubt that very many Libyan people, no matter their ethnic or religious leanings, would say that they prefer life in Today's failed state.

Ahh but not according to Moby. He's been there, served with an elite fighting group and experienced combat whilst growing his international satellite dish empire throughout the Arabic world. He's dated the women, he's won admiration from the men and he knows the Middle East inside out on all subjects. He's been there and we haven't.

I mean what chance has a Libyan got, being right about his own homeland having experienced the troubles first hand when we have Moby to correct him and tell the truth? Moby is the man........who talks sh!te.  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on July 30, 2020, 02:33:16 PM
Quote
"Everyone, including health workers, had let their guard down months before the reintroduction of the virus," said Truong Huu Khanh, head of the infectious diseases department at the Nhi Dong I Hospital in Ho Chi Minh City.

"People had stopped wearing masks in public and some health workers didn't pay enough attention to 'high risk' cases".
"What is happening now in Vietnam was almost inevitable. It is almost impossible to isolate an entire country from a global pandemic,"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/just-days-vietnam-shifts-virus-112509102.html


Another success story goes down the drain.   (:)
Quote
Research suggests one of the closest known ancestors of the virus that causes Covid-19 emerged in bats between 40 and 70 years ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53584936

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-evolution-close-relatives-bats

This means that the virus has been around before the Vietnam war.  It came to North America by way of the veterans returning from Southeast Asia.   :duh: :-\ (:) :chuckle: :Zzzzsleep: :biggrin: :plane: :dh:

Quote
The head of the U.N. food agency warned Tuesday that, as the world is dealing with the coronavirus pandemic, it is also “on the brink of a hunger pandemic” that could lead to “multiple famines of biblical proportions” within a few months if immediate action isn’t taken.

“It’s God’s will,” the mother said. “We can say nothing.”

https://apnews.com/ddf274a0521fc3047de31f56cb71dd62

https://apnews.com/5cbee9693c52728a3808f4e7b4965cbd

Now you got a hunger pandemic that can push the death toll more closer to the 1918 pandemic numbers.  So you do not need to get infected to die from the corona virus.   History can repeat itself again!   (:) :bow: :scared0005: :sick0012: :hidechair: :snivel: :dh: :reading:

Quote
We’ve failed because we declared victory over the virus when we had no business doing so. This virus has been poised to be transmitted in our communities, and we thought we had done enough to get it down. It’s like a fire crew. “I only put out half the forest fire but you know, I put out half so we’re done.” And then look what happened. It’s burned more acres since we gave up than it did before we gave up.

We will be dealing with this virus forever. Effective and safe vaccines and hopefully ones with some durability will be very important, even critical tools, in fighting it. But the whole world is going to be experiencing COVID-19 ‘til the end of time. We’re not going to be vaccinating our way out of this to eight-plus billion people in the world right now.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/osterholm-americans-will-be-living-with-the-coronavirus-for-decades-2020-07-30

Looks like a dismal prediction.    :snivel: :biggrin: :scared0005: :censored: :duh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 30, 2020, 11:09:51 PM
..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or[/url]


FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems


My eldest daughter has a form of Lupus and so I might just have heard of this med and its unpleasant side effects / risks .. 

Before any IDIOT posts something along the lines that I'd make something like that up... GET A ( real) LIFE ..


If 'Trampu' thinks taking HCQ to 'prevent' getting SARS-CoV2 is worth the risk of:

 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:

 I was just called an idiot by a guy stupid enough to think that the USFDA has jurisdiction in Canada . I am so ashamed!   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on July 30, 2020, 11:15:35 PM
..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?


It should be pointed out that d672 does have is 'very own FDA.' Facts, honesty and thinking are not part of the mental process of those who speak 'Natural English.'

..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or[/url]


FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems


My eldest daughter has a form of Lupus and so I might just have heard of this med and its unpleasant side effects / risks .. 

Before any IDIOT posts something along the lines that I'd make something like that up... GET A ( real) LIFE ..


If 'Trampu' thinks taking HCQ to 'prevent' getting SARS-CoV2 is worth the risk of:

 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:

 I was just called an idiot by a guy stupid enough to think that the USFDA has jurisdiction in Canada . I am so ashamed!   :chuckle:

Well at least two posters understand ms's stupidity or is it dishonesty?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 30, 2020, 11:31:05 PM
So you’re saying those doctors are *all* wrong and you know better?

Did your daughter suffer any side effects from using it?

 Very good questions. And why are the risks of using hydroxy acceptable for Lupus, Malaria or Arthritis but not for corona virus? It's a ridiculous assertion.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 30, 2020, 11:32:40 PM
..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?


It should be pointed out that d672 does have is 'very own FDA.' Facts, honesty and thinking are not part of the mental process of those who speak 'Natural English.'

..and now we have a poster using old news to defend' his 'stance' ?..



 What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

Don't you believe your very own FDA ?

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or[/url]


FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems


My eldest daughter has a form of Lupus and so I might just have heard of this med and its unpleasant side effects / risks .. 

Before any IDIOT posts something along the lines that I'd make something like that up... GET A ( real) LIFE ..


If 'Trampu' thinks taking HCQ to 'prevent' getting SARS-CoV2 is worth the risk of:

 serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure... :popcorn:

 I was just called an idiot by a guy stupid enough to think that the USFDA has jurisdiction in Canada . I am so ashamed!   :chuckle:

Well at least two posters understand ms's stupidity or is it dishonesty?

 Lol! I didnt even notice you noticed that earlier. Good catch Av!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 31, 2020, 02:13:05 AM

 Very good questions.


HUH ?

And why are the risks of using hydroxy acceptable for Lupus, Malaria or Arthritis but not for corona virus? It's a ridiculous assertion.

Are you BOTH competing for the prize of posting dafter ? ...

1/ HCQ is proven to have efficacy re 'Lupus, Malaria or Arthritis'...

2/ It has not been proven the same for SARS-CoV2

So,.... for those with serious enough issues, the risks outweigh the side effects ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on July 31, 2020, 10:57:52 AM

 Very good questions.


HUH ?

And why are the risks of using hydroxy acceptable for Lupus, Malaria or Arthritis but not for corona virus? It's a ridiculous assertion.

Are you BOTH competing for the prize of posting dafter ? ...

1/ HCQ is proven to have efficacy re 'Lupus, Malaria or Arthritis'...

2/ It has not been proven the same for SARS-CoV2

So,.... for those with serious enough issues, the risks outweigh the side effects ..

 Ok, I need to ask... do you really think we are stupid enough to believe that? Or are you stupid enough to actually believe it yourself? Which is it?  Corona is killing people, has shut the whole world down, ruining economies and it isn't a serious enough issue?? Which of those others have paralyzed the world like that??  What a joke!   :chuckle:

 As for not being proven to work, there is more and more evidence coming up every day that it does...

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

Beyond these studies of individual patients, we have seen what happens in large populations when these drugs are used. These have been "natural experiments." In the northern Brazil state of Pará, COVID-19 deaths were increasing exponentially. On April 6, the public hospital network purchased 75,000 doses of azithromycin and 90,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine. Over the next few weeks, authorities began distributing these medications to infected individuals. Even though new cases continued to occur, on May 22 the death rate started to plummet and is now about one-eighth what it was at the peak.

A reverse natural experiment happened in Switzerland. On May 27, the Swiss national government banned outpatient use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19. Around June 10, COVID-19 deaths increased four-fold and remained elevated. On June 11, the Swiss government revoked the ban, and on June 23 the death rate reverted to what it had been beforehand.


 I'll bet you that there are a lot of Swiss and Brazilian residents who are happy their govt never listened to WHO, the USFDA... and Moby! 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on July 31, 2020, 10:45:51 PM
I am 'stupid enough to be able to understand articles I am sent by a retired surgeon ( back on the UK's  special register), a micro biologist and a Russian egg head programmer who studied medicine, who are biz partners..

'Funnily enough', my daughter's using HCQ made me more of an interested party long before you.....

IF HCQ was bringing about the efficacy you 'claim' how come the FDA, UK, France ( to name but three nations) don't recommend or have even  banned it's use re COVID-19?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 01, 2020, 01:25:54 AM
So,.... for those with serious enough issues, the risks outweigh the side effects ..

 Ok, I need to ask... do you really think we are stupid enough to believe that? Or are you stupid enough to actually believe it yourself? Which is it?  Corona is killing people, has shut the whole world down, ruining economies and it isn't a serious enough issue?? Which of those others have paralyzed the world like that??  What a joke!   :chuckle:


 So you don't want to answer to this? Instead just deflect to other subjects in hopes people will forget how idiotic your statement was?  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 01, 2020, 02:14:24 AM
I am 'stupid enough to be able to understand articles I am sent by a retired surgeon ( back on the UK's  special register), a micro biologist and a Russian egg head programmer who studied medicine, who are biz partners..

 Ah yes, yet more "experts" that you hobnob with! Why am I not surprised? 
 I guess their word has more merit than Brazil and Switzerland's doctors who are working with it hands on!  (:)


'Funnily enough', my daughter's using HCQ made me more of an interested party long before you.....
 

 Is THAT why you say Covid isn't as serious as arthritis and not worth risking the side effects of it? Well I guess it IS only a pandemic after all!!!   :chuckle:


IF HCQ was bringing about the efficacy you 'claim' how come the FDA, UK, France ( to name but three nations) don't recommend or have even  banned it's use re COVID-19?


 "I" never claimed anything. I am questioning

 1  Why was it discarded after only about a couple months of study when other drugs go through months or years of testing to get accurate results

 2  Why did social media take down the video of the doctors so quickly? Why was it so important to silence them?

 3  If it does not work, and is so dangerous then why are countries like Brazil and Switzerland claiming great success with it? And if you bothered to read that link from newsweek other countries are claiming the same, it's not just a handful of doctors in the US who are claiming success with it. The Swiss story is particularly interesting. They banned it, cases skyrocketed. They lifted the ban and cases dropped quickly. That's hardly a coincidence.

 It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple months. One US state, Ohio just reversed their ban on hydroxy. Who knows? maybe soon the UK and France WILL be using it in the future.

 



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 01, 2020, 02:32:57 AM
Your questions have been answered...What you SEEM to be suggesting is some sort of 'conspiracy'..

Damn right that bollox re the 'efficacy' of HCQ should be pulled...

There's freedom of speech and posting utter stupidity...dangerous stupidity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on August 01, 2020, 05:17:34 AM
I am 'stupid enough to be able to understand articles I am sent by a retired surgeon ( back on the UK's  special register), a micro biologist and a Russian egg head programmer who studied medicine, who are biz partners..



More imaginary "fwends"?!  :ROFL: :ROFL:  Exactly what business do you do that they are "partners" in?  ??? ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on August 01, 2020, 05:57:36 AM
Dr. Yim recommends anti-malaria drug to prevent and cure Wuhan virus or SARS 2003 alike.

She takes it on daily basis to prevent them.

She also heard that ChiNazi high officers also take anti-malaria drug to prevent Wuhan virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 01, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
Your questions have been answered...What you SEEM to be suggesting is some sort of 'conspiracy'..

 No they haven't, stop squirming you little worm and answer. Why do you say Covid is not as serious as Lupus, Malaria and Arthritis? I want to see you make yourself look even more foolish!
 Maybe there's a conspiracy by big pharma, or maybe it was just hasty, shoddy work accepted by the FDA and WHO.


Damn right that bollox re the 'efficacy' of HCQ should be pulled...


 Tell that to the Brazilians and Swiss. Are you saying they are lying?   :coffeeread:



There's freedom of speech and posting utter stupidity...dangerous stupidity.

 As you have proven to us quite well... yet again



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on August 01, 2020, 04:17:58 PM
Quote
The demonstration, entitled “The end of the pandemic -- freedom day,” was planned for weeks and drew people from various parts of Germany. Police used bullhorns to chide participants to keep to distancing rules and to wear masks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thousands-protest-in-berlin-against-coronavirus-restrictions/ar-BB17rMEe

So you think you can "protest it away"?    :ROFL:  Another group of "David Farragut followers".   :chuckle: (:) :'( :trainwreck: :GRAVE: :HOSPITAL: :LIMP:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 02, 2020, 10:49:52 AM
BBC News - Coronavirus: The bogus meme targeting Dr Fauci, and other fake claims
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53601027

Some reality for HCQ 'experts'...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on August 02, 2020, 11:50:25 AM
What side effects? What risks? The ones that this case study talked about that says it can increase deaths? The one that got retracted?   :laugh:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-hydroxychloroquine-n1225091

The medical journal The Lancet on Thursday retracted a large study on the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 because of potential flaws in the research data. The study, published two weeks ago, found no benefit to the drug — and suggested its use may even increase the risk of death.
Thursday's retraction doesn't mean that the drug is helpful — or harmful — with respect to the coronavirus. Rather, the study authors were unable to confirm that the data set was accurate.

"A first-year statistics major could tell you about major flaws in the design of the analysis."


 This is what I was talking about when I questioned how fast they came out saying that hydroxy did not work. They can't even give the data to back their claims. Yet people still insist on parroting their findings. And are so quick to say that doctors who have actually treated patients with it with success are whack jobs.
 I'm not a medical expert like you Moby, maybe it does not work. But it makes no sense that they disregarded it so quickly, and if one of my friends or loved ones died needlessly of corona when there was a treatment that would have avoided that death I would be pissed. At the least I say a person should be given the choice to try it or not, make them sign a waver and let them know the risks. To hold something like this back for monetary or political reasons would be criminal.


Exactly Yes, friend.

Dr. Yim, the virologist who escaped from ChiNazi and University of Hong Kong, claimed that anti-malaria drug could prevent or cure COVID-19 even though it was not perfect.  At present, it is the best option available.

About those researches opposing the positive effect of anti-malaria drug, she suspected that it was also part of ChiNazi's Unlimited War to drag the whole world even deeper into this disaster.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 02, 2020, 12:04:20 PM
BBC News - Coronavirus: The bogus meme targeting Dr Fauci, and other fake claims
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53601027

Some reality for HCQ 'experts'...

Oh right, there’s a source, because the BBC is known not to be a peddler of fake news, right?  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 02, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
It is only known as such by those in denial.

With which checked fact are you taking issue?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 02, 2020, 12:53:45 PM
BBC News - Coronavirus: The bogus meme targeting Dr Fauci, and other fake claims
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53601027

Some reality for HCQ 'experts'...

Oh right, there’s a source, because the BBC is known not to be a peddler of fake news, right?  :ROFL:

 You know the BBC much better than I do, but it only took me about 2 minutes to find an outright lie in that article to prove you were correct...

There is not a shred of evidence that hydroxychloroquine was "blocked" by anyone," says Prof Stephen Evans of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

He says the pharmaceutical industry does make money from hydroxychloroquine, which is approved for treating other illnesses such malaria.

"But in this specific area [treating Covid-19] they don't have a current alternative product, so they don't have a strong interest to discourage hydroxychloroquine use."


 The FDA revoked the EUA for hydroxy. That my friends is called discouraging the use of it!

 https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and


 And we still haven't heard from our resident medical professional why the Swiss, Brazilians ad others have had such good success with it. Funny how he ignores that
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 02, 2020, 12:57:16 PM
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/357044819/chinese-virologe-en-klokkenluider-vanuit-schuiladres-vs-corona-komt-uit-militair-lab

No comments here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 02, 2020, 07:05:57 PM
BBC News - Coronavirus: The bogus meme targeting Dr Fauci, and other fake claims
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53601027

Some reality for HCQ 'experts'...

Oh right, there’s a source, because the BBC is known not to be a peddler of fake news, right?  :ROFL:

 You know the BBC much better than I do, but it only took me about 2 minutes to find an outright lie in that article to prove you were correct...

There is not a shred of evidence that hydroxychloroquine was "blocked" by anyone," says Prof Stephen Evans of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

He says the pharmaceutical industry does make money from hydroxychloroquine, which is approved for treating other illnesses such malaria.

"But in this specific area [treating Covid-19] they don't have a current alternative product, so they don't have a strong interest to discourage hydroxychloroquine use."


 The FDA revoked the EUA for hydroxy. That my friends is called discouraging the use of it!

 https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and


 And we still haven't heard from our resident medical professional why the Swiss, Brazilians ad others have had such good success with it. Funny how he ignores that

Yale Epidemiologist says Fauci is running a deliberate smear campaign against Hydroxychloroquin.


https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/yale-epidemiologist-accuses-fauci-running-disinformation-campaign

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on August 02, 2020, 10:55:55 PM
Quote
The pair enter the back door carrying a plastic board like astronauts in their white suits. They pass two more masked relatives sitting in the kitchen, heads buried in hands. Through an open door, they see Tinoco’s frail body in bed in a shaded back room. They wrap her in sheets, hoist her onto the board and carry her outside to the gurney. They place her in a black body bag and zip it shut.

“The dominoes are coming," he said. "We’re waiting for Labor Day.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/many-bodies-lost-count-grim-120050765.html


Quote
“If the coroners don’t have the resources to pursue the diagnosis or the potential diagnosis of COVID-19 in many of these unattended deaths, then that will undoubtedly lead to an undercount of the actual fatal impact of this pandemic virus,”

“This is not getting any better any time soon,” she told The Daily Beast. “If the deaths increase, we’re going to be in trouble.”

The deaths are very likely to increase. The state had just over 9,000 new infections last week, making it virtually tied with Florida for the country’s highest per capita rate of new cases.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/amid-a-mississippi-coronavirus-surge-morgues-are-overflowing-and-coroners-are-scared

Rural areas where health care is sparse are going to be the next target.  More volunteer grave diggers needed.     :GRAVE: :sick0002: :snivel: :scared0005: :duh: :censored:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2020, 11:49:11 PM
Article below says HCQ been in over 350 studies which is near double of any other drug. They point out flaws in even the most promising study saying "In the Henry Ford trial, patients that got hydroxychloroquine were about five years younger, on average, than those who didn’t, Schluger says. “We know that age is the single strongest predictor of mortality from this illness.”

http://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-no-evidence-treatment

The Swiss Society for Infectious Diseases has withdrawn this treatment from its recommendations and only recommends it in the context of clinical studies.

http://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home/medizin-und-forschung/heilmittel/covid19_vo_2.html

How much more time and money some of you guys want to dump into studies about a medicine that was designed for another illness thinking it be the miracle treatment against the virus of the century?

My local newspaper put out interesting stats. People 80 years and older in my state have a 51% chance in dying from COVID-19. Ages 60-79 have a 38% chance in dying. Ages 40-59 have a 9% chance in dying. Ages 20-39 have a 2% chance in dying. Some of you guys may want to alter your behavior and I don't mean by partying more.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 02, 2020, 11:54:09 PM


 Tell that to the Brazilians and Swiss.


Switzerland

Study finds hydroxychloroquine linked to higher death rate in Covid-19 patients


http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/zurich-university-hospital_study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-linked-to-higher-death-rate-in-covid-19-patients/45779864 (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/zurich-university-hospital_study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-linked-to-higher-death-rate-in-covid-19-patients/45779864)

Brazil:

"a 7-day course of hydroxychloroquine either with azithromycin or alone did not result in better clinical outcomes as measured by a seven-level ordinal scale at 15 days. There was also no effect on any of the secondary outcomes. Occurrence of any adverse event, elevation of liver-enzyme levels, and prolongation of the QTc interval was more frequent in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin or hydroxychloroquine alone than in those receiving neither agent."

Professor Flavia Machado, from the research group Coalizao Covid-19 Brasil and an ICU director of Hospital Sao Paulo, conducted the largest study of the drug across 55 hospitals in Brazil. She said that while they continue to assess its use in the early stages of the disease, it should for now only be used in clinical trials.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014 (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014)

 I'm saying 'Trampu' and  Bolsonaro are pushing an agenda of ignorance
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 03, 2020, 01:09:07 AM

The Swiss Society for Infectious Diseases has withdrawn this treatment from its recommendations and only recommends it in the context of clinical studies.

http://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home/medizin-und-forschung/heilmittel/covid19_vo_2.html


 Yes Billy the Swiss did withdraw hydroxy treatments, but then they lifted the ban on June 11th. There's a good explanation of the results the Swiss had in this link...

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2020/07/15/media-should-do-a-mea-culpa-as-french-analysis-offers-a-stunning-observation-about-hydroxychloroquine-use-n643181

The graph clearly shows how the Case Fatality Rate shoots way up once they stopped using hydroxy. Then drops way down again after they resumed using it

 A summary of their findings...

For those who are not convinced of the observational result, we conducted a statistical difference test by comparing the three periods: May 28th – June 8th, June 9th – 22nd, June 23rd – July 6th . The period from June 9th till the 22nd is that in which the index increased some 13 days after the suspension of hydroxychloroquine. There is of course an effect of delay between stopping the prescription of the drug and possible deaths, which explains the delay of 13 days.

We therefore observe that for the period from the 28th of May till the 8th of June, the index is 2.39% and then drops to 11.52% or 4.8 times more and then drops to 3%.

When testing for statistical significance between the various observations, the difference is significant at 99% with a p <0.0001. 13 days after the HCQ prescription was resumed, the index dropped to 3% and this was again a significant effect.



How much more time and money some of you guys want to dump into studies about a medicine that was designed for another illness thinking it be the miracle treatment against the virus of the century?


 A lot more when you see other countries claiming success with it. It's not like research is going to stop on other treatments while it is studied more! The whole world has been turned upside down over corona, almost 700,000 dead from it now, billions of dollars are being lost every day over it., millions of businesses have already permanently closed over it. And millions of people have lost their jobs. What I question is why are people so against taking a closer look at it to see if these reported findings are true? What does it hurt?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 03, 2020, 01:38:49 AM

The link below has a massive amount of info. Search the word hydroxychloroquine and you'll see it 60 times and it's pretty much all bad news reporting deaths, cancelled trials and removal of permission for doctors to use it for emergency use. There's hundreds of studies that conclude HCQ has no real benefit and in some cases causes harm.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/coronavirus-tracker-hydroxychloroquine-fails-va-study-fda-approves-at-home-sample-collection

Last year, no drug in existence has ever been approved to treat any coronavirus related disease. What are the chances something in our medicine cabinet that's never worked before is going to work on the virus of the century? It took decades to create decent treatments for HIV. It may take decades to discover an all new drug made exclusively for COVID-19. Mueller's investigation was costly, lengthy, and thorough. Some people can't accept the results and let it go. It's time to let HCQ go and put those doctors and scientists to work on something more promising instead of wasting time beating a dead horse over and over.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 04, 2020, 09:11:15 AM
It may take decades to discover an all new drug made exclusively for COVID-19.

Russia claims to be starting vaccinations there in October: Russia aims to begin public Covid-19 vaccinations in October, starting with medical workers & teachers – Minister of Health (https://www.rt.com/russia/496833-russia-vaccine-program-ready-october/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2020, 09:31:17 AM
It may take decades to discover an all new drug made exclusively for COVID-19.

Russia claims to be starting vaccinations there in October: Russia aims to begin public Covid-19 vaccinations in October, starting with medical workers & teachers – Minister of Health (https://www.rt.com/russia/496833-russia-vaccine-program-ready-october/)

There's never been a safe and effective vaccine created for any coronavirus in history. No country has achieved that. There has never been a vaccine created that's 100% effective on any virus ever. No country has achieved that. What are the chances vaccines that are rushed going to be greater than 50% effective? A lot of governments giving their people hope but I suspect we will be disappointed in the end and 2nd round of vaccine work will have to begin.

I suspect Russia used the fastest, easiest and safest method to create their vaccine and that is to inactive/kill the virus and then inject it into people. Sometimes our immune system reacts to inactive/dead viruses the same way it does life and raises our defenses in case the real thing shows up. Of course that method of creating a vaccine has never worked against past coronaviruses but it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2020, 10:48:35 AM
The first Russian vaccine to come out is not recognized or monitored by WHO. WHO does monitor other Russian vaccine developments. Scientists outside of Russia don't have any info pertaining to the Russian vaccine that's about to be released. They can only hope it's safe since they can't peer review it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-start-mass-producing-132148774.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 04, 2020, 12:15:21 PM
The first Russian vaccine to come out is not recognized or monitored by WHO.

I suspect they feel they dont need outside approval.

If it is "monitored" it is likely to be stolen by the US. Trump may even want some more "key money" somewhere along the line now he has form for this. Better they keep it to themselves till they have locked it down legally. Assuming its any good that is......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 04, 2020, 03:18:08 PM
The first Russian vaccine to come out is not recognized or monitored by WHO.

I suspect they feel they dont need outside approval.

If it is "monitored" it is likely to be stolen by the US. Trump may even want some more "key money" somewhere along the line now he has form for this. Better they keep it to themselves till they have locked it down legally. Assuming its any good that is......

Smart move, I would NEVER share anything with WHO.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2020, 07:05:38 PM
If it is "monitored" it is likely to be stolen by the US.


The US already pulled out of WHO.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 04, 2020, 11:33:17 PM
If it is "monitored" it is likely to be stolen by the US.


The US already pulled out of WHO.

That doesn’t mean they have no access to information.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2020, 12:25:53 AM

I doubt anybody is eager to steal the blueprints to a product that is rushed and not tested since they would have to waste an enormous amount of time to test it themselves.  Even the other vaccines going through trials are rushed but they still have to go through three trials and lots of oversight to make sure people aren't going to get sick and have long term medical issues. The other Russian vaccines in development are going through the proper steps to be certified safe and not cutting corners in this race.

I heard Oxford U is doing a good job with their vaccine. Who here prefers this 1st Russian vaccine and are willing to take it and who is going to wait for the Oxford U or another European or American vaccine? Count me out for the Russian vaccine. Thousands of others, mostly Russians, can be the test subjects/guinea pigs when it's mass distributed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 05, 2020, 07:31:27 AM
Some will remember when our resident Muslim apologist was falling over himself telling us that Muslim lifestyles had no bearing on spread of the virus, and it was waaaaaysist to even think so. The fact that it has been rampant in Muslim communities was just coincidence of course.  (:)

Much of Manchester and the surrounding regions - along with other places - is supposedly "locked down" again. The announcement came one day before Muslim Xmas (Eid) a few days ago (where they all mingle in hordes). This time the government touched on the issue but telling it like it is, is still beyond them (coz waaaaaysist etc). However, in the North West, and in and around Manchester we have many Muslim areas and these are the ones where the virus is rampant (Blackburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Ashton, parts of Lancashire and West Yorkshire, etc). Accordingly, this new so-called lockdown is being completely ignored by most non-Muslims as we feel it doesn't really apply to us unless we are unfortunate enough to live in on of their areas.

However, one half Pakistani journalist at the Times, Matthew Syed, has broken ranks to discuss it and it's a good article, reproduced below.

=======================

Don’t speak in code on race. Truth saves lives

Ethnic differences are a big factor in the virus risk. Let’s be open about it

We may disagree about the government’s Covid strategy and the quality of the communication. We may even disagree about the timing of the decision late on Thursday to restrict much of the north of England, although I found it rather hypocritical that many who were blaming the government for acting too slowly at the start of the crisis are now angered they acted too fast.

But we can surely all agree that the announcement itself was a farce, a pantomime of Orwellian proportions. Here was a government imposing restrictions on a region where transmission is rising faster within some Asian communities, and on the eve of the most important festival in Islam, yet Matt Hancock said nothing of this, talking instead of transmission “between families” and “multigenerational households”. This was ministerial statement by code.

Over the next 48 hours, information came out in dribs and drabs — but not from ministers. The director of public health for Blackburn with Darwen said that 79% of recent cases in the predominantly white city had been among people from a south Asian background. Statistics from Public Health England for the week ending July 26 showed that 1,369 of those testing positive in England (37%) were Asian or Asian-British — a group that made up 7.5% of the population in the last census. Shouldn’t ministers have helped us interpret these statistics, rather than pretend they didn’t exist?

Some will doubtless applaud the government’s approach. After all, ministers are worried about igniting a backlash against Asians. They may also be fearful about being perceived as racist themselves. But shouldn’t we have learnt that racism is inflamed not by information, but by disinformation? Whatever the short-term risks from explaining the facts, they are far outweighed by the insidious decoupling of meaning from reality, creating the space for conspiracy theories to grow and mutate. Racism thrives in the gaps left open by right-minded people who fear inconvenient truths.

Among the litany of recent disasters, one can’t overlook various grooming scandals, including in Rotherham and Rochdale, where the unwillingness to discuss the ethnic dimension led to a virulent backlash against the Pakistani community that would have been inconceivable had a grown-up debate taken place earlier. It also led to more vulnerable youngsters being abused.

Across the Atlantic, one might also place police violence in this category: few pundits have had the courage to share peer-reviewed data — albeit contested — that lethal violence against black people is roughly the same as that against whites if the prevalence of crime in the two populations is taken into account. Why does this matter? Because the fearless analysis of data is the starting point for solutions — a point that should be embraced by the right and left.

Going back to Covid-19, nobody objects to ministers chronicling regional variation in the transmission of the virus. Indeed, this is what offers the best hope for a targeted approach. Yet the fact that they feel unable to talk about ethnic variation in transmission — information of lifesaving significance for the communities most at risk — shows how entangled we have become in the fine mesh of political correctness.

One of the most beautiful things about my father’s side of the family (he hails from Pakistan) is the deep love and respect for older people. It is rare to put parents into nursing homes because of the duty to care for them at home. But this is precisely why nothing would have had a deeper impact on Asian communities than a frank statement about how this cultural strength can, in the context of an epidemic, prove perilous. By tiptoeing around racial sensibilities, Hancock will, I fear, cost lives.

Allow me to restate: plain talking isn’t merely of great utility, it is also the surest antidote to bigotry. Why? Because by plainly stating the facts, we are likely to reach a more objective analysis. Craig Whittaker, one of the more hapless Tory MPs, explained the higher transmission among some ethnic groups as a disregard for rules on social distancing. “[Black and minority ethnic] communities are not taking this seriously enough,” he told LBC radio.

Yet while this may be a factor (some community leaders also made this point), I doubt he would have collapsed so complex a problem onto so simplistic a cause had the government set out a more comprehensive analysis from the outset. Asians — a diverse group — are, on average, more likely to work in frontline professions where social distancing is difficult, and to live in overcrowded housing. Whittaker was scarcely challenged by his interviewer.

The point is that data is not the enemy of rationality; it is the friend. This is particularly true during a pandemic — we need to know about risks of transmission in family settings, at meatpacking facilities and when people (mostly young and white) congregate on beaches or at raves and pubs. By understanding these patterns, we can take wiser precautions.

Of course, advocating for open discussion may seem quaint in a post-truth age. But look at the evidence. If you want to understand the growth of anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK, you are looking in the wrong place if you focus on Nigel Farage or even Tommy Robinson. No, this was seeded by Tony Blair and his mendacious silence about European Union enlargement in 2004, a topic that ministers were in effect barred from speaking about.

This fanned a sense of grievance, partly because nobody was addressing people’s concerns, but also because nobody was sharing hard data on the economic benefits of immigration, the net effect on the public purse and the heroic work performed by immigrants in the NHS and other services. In this context, it is worth recalling that the first four doctors who died from the coronavirus in the UK — Alfa Saadu, Amged el-Hawrani, Adil El Tayar and Habib Zaidi — were all from ethnic minority backgrounds.

Or take the rise of Donald Trump. He has got away with serial bigotry precisely because he could position it as an antidote to a climate of political correctness that has stifled free speech.

This is where the suppression of open dialogue ultimately leads. Polarisation. Post-truth. A clown in the White House clinging on to power. And, yes, a British minister unable to state a key reason for restrictions during a pandemic, leading to the viral dissemination of tropes and conspiracies.

Political correctness started out as a wonderful thing. Most people were delighted that the n-word and other hateful phrases had been removed from public discourse. But by taking it too far, we have exacerbated the problems it was designed to solve. This is the elephant in the room, the truth around which all right-minded people should coalesce.

As Orwell put it: “Political chaos is connected with the decay of language . . . one can probably bring about some improvement by starting at the verbal end.”

@MatthewSyed (https://twitter.com/matthewsyed)

Source (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dont-speak-in-code-on-race-truth-saves-lives-rd7tr05ss)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on August 05, 2020, 08:06:54 AM
Not much to disagree with there, unless you’re Moby, of course.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 05, 2020, 11:35:00 AM
Some will remember when our resident Muslim apologist was falling over himself telling us that Muslim lifestyles had no bearing on spread of the virus, and it was waaaaaysist to even think so. The fact that it has been rampant in Muslim communities was just coincidence of course.  (:)

Much of Manchester and the surrounding regions - along with other places - is supposedly "locked down" again. The announcement came one day before Muslim Xmas (Eid) a few days ago (where they all mingle in hordes). This time the government touched on the issue but telling it like it is, is still beyond them (coz waaaaaysist etc). However, in the North West, and in and around Manchester we have many Muslim areas and these are the ones where the virus is rampant (Blackburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Ashton, parts of Lancashire and West Yorkshire, etc). Accordingly, this new so-called lockdown is being completely ignored by most non-Muslims as we feel it doesn't really apply to us unless we are unfortunate enough to live in on of their areas.

However, one half Pakistani journalist at the Times, Matthew Syed, has broken ranks to discuss it and it's a good article, reproduced below.

Matthew Syed's Dad was from Pakistan and his DAD converted from Shia Islam to Christianity ...  His Mum is Welsh and he was a rather good table tennis player
"Syed was born in Reading, Berkshire. His father, Abbas Syed, is a Pakistani immigrant to Britain who converted from Shia Islam to Christianity, and his mother is Welsh." ( source Wiki)

IF you are trying to make some sot of point that a 50 percent 'Pakistani" 'agrees with you ... My wife had a Muslim Dad ..She would claim to be Christian.. 

The 'apologist' notes you cannot help being racist, given I have seen how middle class Brits were partying and meeting up long before the restrictions were lifted and hitting the beach ..

Aberdeen is hardly famous for its 'Islamic Community', yet it is subject to special measures due to a spike ..

Swindon ( next county to me ) has a very specific outbreak at a depot used to transport 'Iceland' ( Brand) food deliveries  ...

You and my Uncle's family live in a region of Manchester also subject to special measures as does my Sis' in Didsbury .. ( Are you suggesting Didsbury has a high population of 'Muzzies'' ..? )


For sure, I think Eid was the reason that restrictions were put in place .. as many gatherings would have taken place.. 

Certain ethnicity are more prone to the virus .. and as the article points out particularly from the Indian sub continent ethnically ..

My Surgeon biz partner slipped me vitamin D tablets and said, " take 'em ".. as I wasn't getting out much ....  There is a theory that in the UK, these folks aren't assimilating enough Vitamin D ..




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 05, 2020, 11:59:36 AM
IF you are trying to make some sort of point that a 50 percent 'Pakistani" 'agrees with you ...

As ever, you are falling over yourself jumping to incorrect conclusions.

That he is half Pakistani means he can talk about this stuff without you Pinkos howling waaaaaysist at him.

In the same way Priti Patel can address lots of issues covering race and ethnicity and you lot cant howl waaaaaysist at her either.

But by quoting a half Pakistani writer, the messenger is labelled thus:

The 'apologist' notes you cannot help being racist,

 :chuckle:

The rest of your burblings are the usual whataboutism and Muslim apologism you've become known for (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29102.msg514931.html#msg514931).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 05, 2020, 12:27:08 PM
One of these days you and may be in an audience and you'll be hard pushed to prove you aren't a racist ..

I make NO apologies for either pointing this out or the ignorance associated with it ..

It is noted how you skirt around my points and try to 'justify' yours by claiming a British born chap knows better ..

Does he know the reasoning for the special measures ?

Explain Aberdeen and Swindon ..

Thanks ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 05, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/04/manchester-coronavirus-outbreak-warning-complacent-white-middle-class-13084480/

Hmm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on August 05, 2020, 02:30:37 PM
Quote
"I think perhaps some people are clinging to this to psychologically manage their anxiety over the disease." he continued, adding "because if some pill can magically make it go away who has to worry?"
“Yup. Sorry to burst the magic bubble,”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/04/hydroxychloroquine-florida-lawmaker-covid-says-drug-not-magic/3291167001/

That should be magic bullet.    :duh: (:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_bullet_(medicine)

Think you got the same antidote like for syphilis?  You all are firing blanks.     :chuckle: :duh: (:) :'(

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 05, 2020, 04:06:41 PM
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/04/manchester-coronavirus-outbreak-warning-complacent-white-middle-class-13084480/

Hmm

Breaking news: Leftist free sheet blames the gammons.  :Zzzzsleep:

I bet you desperately trawled Google to find something you think exonerates the Muzzies.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 06, 2020, 01:33:46 AM


Breaking news: Leftist free sheet blames the gammons.  :Zzzzsleep:

Do you question the articles authenticity ?  NO .. Then that makes your response somewhat childish and irrelevant - plus it was a SWERVE


I bet you desperately trawled Google to find something you think exonerates the Muzzies.  :chuckle:

Like most people interested in the news ..it was in a newsfeed pushed to me ..  I get stuff from the Torygrapgh, Indy, Guardian, RU media, irrespective of editorial leaning ..


FACT is your ignorant agenda doesn't  'fit' Aberdeen, Swindon, etc., and the metro busted your contention wide open ..

Be sure to take vitamin D pills and try to lose some Kg ...  I've put ON weight and that is a BIGGER risk that having 'Muzzie neighbours '



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on August 06, 2020, 11:24:35 AM
Quote
Experts have warned that loud talking and singing could spread the coronavirus further than six feet. When people give exhalations that require more energy, the droplets they emit can travel further. Some research has also suggested that louder speech produces more droplets.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nearly-100-people-in-ohio-got-sick-after-one-man-infected-with-the-coronavirus-attended-a-church-service/ar-BB17DCqi

Homo Sapiens needs to learn to STFU sometimes.    :chuckle: (:) :duh: :thumbsup: tiphat :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 06, 2020, 11:36:25 AM


Breaking news: Leftist free sheet blames the gammons.  :Zzzzsleep:

Do you question the articles authenticity ? 

I didn't get to read all of it as the pop ups screaming about my ad blocker were too invasive. But even the url tells us all we need to know. The last bit of the url is warning-complacent-white-middle-class-13084480/ - oh how the Muzzies would howl if it said instead warning-complacent-muslim-under-class-13084480/ - that would be wayyyysist, right?  (:)

Nobody said the issue is *exclusively* Muzzies. I am not familiar with Swindon or Aberdeen enough to comment on those places, but your whataboutism and two locations does not negate the facts in the article upthread.

The "Manchester lockdown" as noted is actually only affecting Muslim areas, but we should all stay home because of wayyyyysism if the truth is told? Not really.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 07, 2020, 05:42:10 AM
top ups screaming about my ad blocker were too invasive.

?

You need to control your stup, better .. I get emails and choose what to read ..

BTW I use an ad-blocker here...No glas to the right



But even the url tells us all we need to know. The last bit of the url is warning-complacent-white-middle-class-13084480/ - oh how the Muzzies would howl if it said instead warning-complacent-muslim-under-class-13084480/ - that would be wayyyysist, right?  (:)

Nobody said the issue is *exclusively* Muzzies. I am not familiar with Swindon or Aberdeen enough to comment on those places, but your whataboutism and two locations does not negate the facts in the article upthread.

The "Manchester lockdown" as noted is actually only affecting Muslim areas, but we should all stay home because of wayyyyysism if the truth is told? Not really.  :coffeeread:

'Sure' it is .. Didsbury isn't at al middle class ;)

In the meantime we both know you have tried to suggest this unfortunate regression in Gtr Manchester, NE Lancs and W. Yorks might be due to 'Muzzies' ...


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 07, 2020, 05:50:01 AM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31690-1/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31690-1/fulltext)

What did I tell you ... ?

"we can see these negative effects in stark detail. New analyses of 220 755 surveys from 40 597 individuals in England, Scotland, and Wales, completed between April 24 and June 11, 2020, as part of University College London's COVID-19 Social Study, show that these events undermined confidence in the government to handle the pandemic specifically."

'Cummings Stunts' were VERY bad for the govts. rep and Joe Public needed to heed the govt..

 :dh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 08, 2020, 12:12:54 AM
Nobody said the issue is *exclusively* Muzzies. I am not familiar with Swindon or Aberdeen enough to comment on those places, but your whataboutism and two locations does not negate the facts in the article upthread.

The "Manchester lockdown" as noted is actually only affecting Muslim areas, but we should all stay home because of wayyyyysism if the truth is told? Not really.  :coffeeread:

'Sure' it is .. Didsbury isn't at al middle class ;)

In the meantime we both know you have tried to suggest this unfortunate regression in Gtr Manchester, NE Lancs and W. Yorks might be due to 'Muzzies' ...

Dear me, try to learn to absorb what you read. Ask questions if confused.

Let’s make it simpler: the spike (which isn’t as bad as presented) is mostly in areas with high immigration. In reality that mostly means Muzzies. I never said it was exclusively Muzzies, but they’re clearly a significant factor as it’s concentrated where they live.

Other groups have some responsibility too, the young are often cited for partying.

If Disdbury is claimed to be a hotspot, a local will know why. It won’t be the leafy middle class bits of Didsbury, it will be the peripheries. You see, any local will tell you that Withington, Whalley Range and bits of Stretford and Rusholme have spent the last few years trying to be called Didsbury. Think how Estonia thinks it’s Scandinavia and you’ll get the idea. In the periphery areas is to be found mostly renters, students and younger people (the red trouser and beard brigade). And among those people many immigrants. So, the immigrants and the young.

Not hard to fathom when you know the area rather than rely on Google.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 08, 2020, 01:34:53 AM
You'll certainly try to spin your ignorance in  lot of words a la andrewfi, but the FACT is your bollox about 'Muzzies' is well and truly busted

The SW has currently got one of the highest R0 numbers.. it is 'well known' for twats thronging to beaches and not self distancing NOT your 'Muzzie' enclaves ...

Didsbury is clearly demarcated - but IS in Gtr Manchester... Wilmslow is in Cheshire ...

Some of us moan about 'Muzzie migrants' and some of us( who don't have an issue with them) live in a region where there aren't many and we get the tattooed f'wits who voted 'Brexit' and bump up the infection rate, coz' it's a nice place to come .. :coffeeread:     
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 08, 2020, 06:57:59 AM
You'll certainly try to spin your ignorance in  lot of words a la andrewfi, but the FACT is your bollox about 'Muzzies' is well and truly busted

I am content to go about my business and simply let you be wrong.

Didsbury is clearly demarcated - but IS in Gtr Manchester... Wilmslow is in Cheshire ...

Nobody mentioned Wilmslow. Please dont try to be so idiotic to attempt to teach a Mancunian about Manchester.  :coffeeread:

Some of us moan about 'Muzzie migrants' and some of us( who don't have an issue with them) live in a region where there aren't many and we get the tattooed f'wits who voted 'Brexit' and bump up the infection rate, coz' it's a nice place to come .. :coffeeread:   

The Brexit bit you made up shows us how prejudiced you are.

To borrow a recent line from Clarkson, you are the sort of bloke who spends his mornings commenting on Daily Mail online articles, and his afternoon objecting to local planning applications.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 08, 2020, 12:24:53 PM


 Tell that to the Brazilians and Swiss.


Switzerland

Study finds hydroxychloroquine linked to higher death rate in Covid-19 patients


http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/zurich-university-hospital_study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-linked-to-higher-death-rate-in-covid-19-patients/45779864 (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/zurich-university-hospital_study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-linked-to-higher-death-rate-in-covid-19-patients/45779864)


 I'm saying 'Trampu' and  Bolsonaro are pushing an agenda of ignorance

 Look at the date of your Swiss link, in May. And they mention the results are contrived from the now retracted Lancet study... you know... the one where they could not provide data to support their bullshit... kinda like you do all the time!  The success the Swiss had was in June ... after they quit listening to your professionals and started saving more lives.
 You, WHO and the FDA are the ones pushing the ignorance agenda...  keep on sticking your head in the sand and making excuses if you want to. Thousands of doctors  across the world say you are wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 08, 2020, 12:37:01 PM
 The Association of American Physicians and Doctors are suing the FDA over withholding hydroxy.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/aaps-sues-fda-end-arbitrary-restrictions-hydroxychloroquine/5719752

 Yep, nothing to see here folks, just a thousands of doctors saying the FDA is wrong!   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 09, 2020, 02:31:35 PM
This is what can happens with a with a under tested vaccine. This was copied not my writing.

You may remember during the 1970’s several hundred Americans developed Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) after receiving the Swine flu vaccine available at the time. A number of these people ended up paralyzed for life –a lesson many health professionals have yet to learn about while properly testing vaccines. Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), is a neurological autoimmune disorder, in which the body’s own antibodies begin attacking the myelin sheath around nerves. Usually, the syndrome begins after an infection, and affects just about any of the peripheral nerves that travel to the ends of the body. Patients can have sensory or motor disturbances.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 09, 2020, 09:36:22 PM
The Association of American Physicians and Doctors are suing the FDA over withholding hydroxy.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/aaps-sues-fda-end-arbitrary-restrictions-hydroxychloroquine/5719752

 Yep, nothing to see here folks, just a thousands of doctors saying the FDA is wrong!   :coffeeread:

Moby is sitting right now with prominent Doctors shills for big Pharma who dispute the qualifications of your experts and FB and Twitter censors are on hand to delete this article from Global Research as it's not a big government approved source of information.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 09, 2020, 09:40:07 PM
Nobody said the issue is *exclusively* Muzzies. I am not familiar with Swindon or Aberdeen enough to comment on those places, but your whataboutism and two locations does not negate the facts in the article upthread.

The "Manchester lockdown" as noted is actually only affecting Muslim areas, but we should all stay home because of wayyyyysism if the truth is told? Not really.  :coffeeread:

'Sure' it is .. Didsbury isn't at al middle class ;)

In the meantime we both know you have tried to suggest this unfortunate regression in Gtr Manchester, NE Lancs and W. Yorks might be due to 'Muzzies' ...

Dear me, try to learn to absorb what you read. Ask questions if confused.

Let’s make it simpler: the spike (which isn’t as bad as presented) is mostly in areas with high immigration. In reality that mostly means Muzzies. I never said it was exclusively Muzzies, but they’re clearly a significant factor as it’s concentrated where they live.

Other groups have some responsibility too, the young are often cited for partying.

If Disdbury is claimed to be a hotspot, a local will know why. It won’t be the leafy middle class bits of Didsbury, it will be the peripheries. You see, any local will tell you that Withington, Whalley Range and bits of Stretford and Rusholme have spent the last few years trying to be called Didsbury. Think how Estonia thinks it’s Scandinavia and you’ll get the idea. In the periphery areas is to be found mostly renters, students and younger people (the red trouser and beard brigade). And among those people many immigrants. So, the immigrants and the young.

Not hard to fathom when you know the area rather than rely on Google.

As usual every thread gets polluted by the moby virus....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 09, 2020, 10:52:02 PM
The Association of American Physicians and Doctors are suing the FDA over withholding hydroxy.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/aaps-sues-fda-end-arbitrary-restrictions-hydroxychloroquine/5719752

 Yep, nothing to see here folks, just a thousands of doctors saying the FDA is wrong!   :coffeeread:

Lawsuit started June 2 when HCQ was allowed to be used by doctors in a hospital setting but doctors wanted more freedoms for it's use. Since the lawsuit began, many trials concluded and the FDA, CDC, WHO recommends against it and FDA removed HCQ from being used even in emergency settings within a hospital. Medical scientists who conduct trials are more qualified than doctors when understanding what medicines are doing to people under different circumstances. HCQ is not only for malaria, but for lupus. HCQ suppresses the immune system. If a doctor makes a bad decision and gives it to a dying person who's immune system is weak, it could kill the person. If a person's immune system went into overdrive killing the person, I can see HQC being beneficial. Doctor's in the field can make a bad decision and a person dies. So even if a medicine works, human error is factored in and if doctors are making too many errors on when is the appropriate time to administer the medicine, the medical will not get approved. I don't believe there is a single trial that has been completed that says HCQ works great.

No medicine has had so much time, man power, and money spent on it than HCQ. It's over. It's time to let it go and pursue something else with the time, man power, and effort. Can't keep beating this dead horse get it to work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 10, 2020, 01:34:05 AM

Lawsuit started June 2 when HCQ was allowed to be used by doctors in a hospital setting but doctors wanted more freedoms for it's use. Since the lawsuit began, many trials concluded and the FDA, CDC, WHO recommends against it and FDA removed HCQ from being used even in emergency settings within a hospital. Medical scientists who conduct trials are more qualified than doctors when understanding what medicines are doing to people under different circumstances.

 Oh really? Like the ones who submitted their findings in the Lancet report that got retracted because they could not show data to prove their findings? That same Lancet study that made the WHO and FDA recommend not using hydroxy?


 HCQ is not only for malaria, but for lupus. HCQ suppresses the immune system. If a doctor makes a bad decision and gives it to a dying person who's immune system is weak, it could kill the person.


 Pretty much every report I read where they claim success from using hydroxy said it should be administered in the early stages of infection. Or even as a preventative measure for frontline caretakers who are working around covid patients. It's acknowledged that when a patient is too far gone it is not effective. But as of now nothing is. What is wrong with having an extra tool in the bag to help fight covid? What you are saying is like saying we should stop giving radiation treatments for cancer patients because it does cure them all!



 I don't believe there is a single trial that has been completed that says HCQ works great.

 Here you go...

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2020/07/15/media-should-do-a-mea-culpa-as-french-analysis-offers-a-stunning-observation-about-hydroxychloroquine-use-n643181

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/hydroxychloroquine-has-become-politicised-in-us-but-india-uses-it-widely-white-house-official-110135

 Back when Covid hit Italy and we saw how bad it got there one of the first things I thought was what is going to happen when it hits a country like India which has such a dense population of people living in their cities. I thought it would make Italy look minor. But their death rate has been surprisingly low, lower than the US. And hydroxy is a standard treatment for covid there, I don't think that's a coincidence.



No medicine has had so much time, man power, and money spent on it than HCQ. It's over. It's time to let it go and pursue something else with the time, man power, and effort. Can't keep beating this dead horse get it to work.

 And no drug has ever been so controversial before, and no one has ever tried to discredit, or keep it out of people's hands, or censor positive information about a drug like this before. That is the part that is strange and makes me wonder. You want to write it off? Go ahead, your FDA isn't spending time or money on it anymore anyways so you shouldn't be so worried about that. But when I see so many other countries claiming success with it I'm having a harder time believing your professionals that you are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 10, 2020, 05:06:11 AM
Back when Covid hit Italy and we saw how bad it got there one of the first things I thought was what is going to happen when it hits a country like India which has such a dense population of people living in their cities. I thought it would make Italy look minor. But their death rate has been surprisingly low, lower than the US. And hydroxy is a standard treatment for covid there, I don't think that's a coincidence.

I find this paragraph really interesting.

With business picking up again & being in the final few weeks before getting my pilots licence, I’ve not had that much time to dg deep on any one particular current affair. When the topic of conversation with friends inevitably turns to covid, I’m still left scratching my head as to why a lot of the poorer & more densely populated areas in the world, are perceived to have not been hit quite so bad.

I expected Bangladesh, India & Pakistan etc to be absolutely ravaged but all we hear about is how badly the UK has handled it and we’re one of the worst in the world etc. I appreciate there’s an agenda in there but still, we must be in a better state than most.

I wonder if these places are commonly using hydroxy and our media has buried it deep? The only time they seem to mention it is to ridicule Trump.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 10, 2020, 07:34:19 AM
Funny stuff here!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8609527/Woman-claiming-Freedom-Breathe-Agency-filmed-threatening-grocery-store-worker.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 10, 2020, 07:35:33 AM
I think that in the longer term, Britain will be seen to have dealt pretty well with the plague. Not perfect, but that's not possible.

Also, it's likley that many countries will never know how badly they were affected by the virus - look at India, for example. More than 50% of the population is aged under 25. In the UK its less than 20%. We already know that the virus affects the old disproportionately hard. So, in India, old people may well be dying off but never reaching medical care or testing and vast numbers of young people getting infected and never even noticing.

The UK is testing more people as a proportion of its population than any other large country. They have a better picture of what's going on than anywhere else. That also means that they are detecting more cases than any other large country.

In the UK, it is now possible to track infections and infection rates down to postcode levels - that's just a few homes/families and so response is becoming very granular. It'd pretty damn impressive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 10, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
I think that in the longer term, Britain will be seen to have dealt pretty well with the plague. Not perfect, but that's not possible.

Also, it's likley that many countries will never know how badly they were affected by the virus - look at India, for example. More than 50% of the population is aged under 25. In the UK its less than 20%. We already know that the virus affects the old disproportionately hard. So, in India, old people may well be dying off but never reaching medical care or testing and vast numbers of young people getting infected and never even noticing.

The UK is testing more people as a proportion of its population than any other large country. They have a better picture of what's going on than anywhere else. That also means that they are detecting more cases than any other large country.

In the UK, it is now possible to track infections and infection rates down to postcode levels - that's just a few homes/families and so response is becoming very granular. It'd pretty damn impressive.

When in Elementary school there was a book which talked about a society which prevented old people from dying a natural death and how it was harming the entire society.

We see that in Sweden they rejected that as they properly believe life is to be fully lived by the young and healthy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 10, 2020, 10:01:57 AM
Sweden's economy outperforms other European countries during pandemic

Stockholm decided to keep the country open during the Covid-19 pandemic


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/05/swedens-economy-outperforms-european-countries-pandemic/

I suspect when we all decide to have a proper debrief and look at true facts once the dust has settled, Swedens critics will probably find it difficult to simply shout down those with a different opinion. The biggest critics of Sweden and how Covid was handled, come from the liberal press and those who believe staying at home and getting paid by the government for most of the year, is the right way forward.

I get a feeling that we might regret the full lockdown in time and once we understand the virus better, destroying our economy for generations to come, wont look like a great idea. I said months ago that different approaches were a good thing because it allows us to analyse and adapt going forward.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 10, 2020, 11:40:24 AM
FFS,

They killed TEN TIMES more citizens than Norway and Finland and SIX times Denmark  :dh:

It's not even true that their economic woes are less .. They rely on exports



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2020, 11:52:31 AM
Oh really? Like the ones who submitted their findings in the Lancet report that got retracted because they could not show data to prove their findings? That same Lancet study that made the WHO and FDA recommend not using hydroxy?

What is wrong with having an extra tool in the bag to help fight covid?


There's never been a tool in the bag to fight any coronavirus in history. Thinking we can just open our medicine cabinet and pull out a medicine designed for something else and it'll be a miracle drug for the virus of the century is not rational.

Although the Lancet report has been retracted, it's still online for all to see. No sneaky stuff going on. I'm sure the Lancet report had good things to say about HCQ but we need to evaluate the bad in the report too. What is the conclusion of the Lancet report? Here it is.

In summary, this multinational, observational, real-world study of patients with COVID-19 requiring hospitalisation found that the use of a regimen containing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine (with or without a macrolide) was associated with no evidence of benefit, but instead was associated with an increase in the risk of ventricular arrhythmias and a greater hazard for in-hospital death with COVID-19. These findings suggest that these drug regimens should not be used outside of clinical trials and urgent confirmation from randomised clinical trials is needed.

That was months ago and clinical trials were conducted since and confirmed HCQ isn't what we needed.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

With that report/study and others with similar results, I understand why the FDA and other bodies in control of regulating drugs stopped approving it for emergency use.

You're always going to find groups of doctors that say their experience is different. Lets say 5 out of 20 critical patients die and doctor A who didn't use HCQ had 4 out of 20 patients die but doctor B who administered HCQ had 2 out of 20 patients die and he credits HCQ when in fact most of his group of patients may have been lucky enough to recover on their own naturally. Doctor C also administered HCQ to patients and 10 out of 20 of his patients die so he's not out there promoting HCQ for obvious reasons because the death toll of his patients are higher than the average of patients who don't get HCQ.

No medical scientists have come forward to tell us that trials show HCQ are effective and the governments are lying. There are enough people working these trials that want to get it right for humanity and they conclude HCQ is not right. Next!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 10, 2020, 01:07:33 PM
Oh really? Like the ones who submitted their findings in the Lancet report that got retracted because they could not show data to prove their findings? That same Lancet study that made the WHO and FDA recommend not using hydroxy?

What is wrong with having an extra tool in the bag to help fight covid?


There's never been a tool in the bag to fight any coronavirus in history. Thinking we can just open our medicine cabinet and pull out a medicine designed for something else and it'll be a miracle drug for the virus of the century is not rational.

Although the Lancet report has been retracted, it's still online for all to see. No sneaky stuff going on. I'm sure the Lancet report had good things to say about HCQ but we need to evaluate the bad in the report too. What is the conclusion of the Lancet report? Here it is.

In summary, this multinational, observational, real-world study of patients with COVID-19 requiring hospitalisation found that the use of a regimen containing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine (with or without a macrolide) was associated with no evidence of benefit, but instead was associated with an increase in the risk of ventricular arrhythmias and a greater hazard for in-hospital death with COVID-19. These findings suggest that these drug regimens should not be used outside of clinical trials and urgent confirmation from randomised clinical trials is needed.

That was months ago and clinical trials were conducted since and confirmed HCQ isn't what we needed.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

With that report/study and others with similar results, I understand why the FDA and other bodies in control of regulating drugs stopped approving it for emergency use.

You're always going to find groups of doctors that say their experience is different. Lets say 5 out of 20 critical patients die and doctor A who didn't use HCQ had 4 out of 20 patients die but doctor B who administered HCQ had 2 out of 20 patients die and he credits HCQ when in fact most of his group of patients may have been lucky enough to recover on their own naturally. Doctor C also administered HCQ to patients and 10 out of 20 of his patients die so he's not out there promoting HCQ for obvious reasons because the death toll of his patients are higher than the average of patients who don't get HCQ.

No medical scientists have come forward to tell us that trials show HCQ are effective and the governments are lying. There are enough people working these trials that want to get it right for humanity and they conclude HCQ is not right. Next!

 Lol! I don't know what to say Billy. When I click on your link to the summary there is a big bold RETRACTED written right across it for all to see. Yet you are still trying to give it credit! 

And yes there are medical scientists saying hydroxy is effective. Some of them were the ones who questioned the Lancet study in the first place...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine.html

More than 100 scientists and clinicians have questioned the authenticity of a massive hospital database that was the basis for an influential study published last week that concluded that treating people who have Covid-19 with chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine did not help and might have increased the risk of abnormal heart rhythms and death.

 I don't know if you are just making this stuff up as you go along or what, but you are beginning to sound as desperate as Moby with your responses!

 Next!   :laugh:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2020, 01:26:40 PM
Apart from Russia's vaccine they reckon will be launched in October.


I doubt any vaccine will be effective, Russian, Chinese, American or European. Labeling something "vaccine" doesn't mean it's a quality product if we use standards that were required before this virus showed up. The faster a vaccine comes out, there are more risks that it can create more harm than help since it didn't go through necessary trials. The trial will have to take place in the general population instead of a controlled clinical setting.


I don't know if you are just making this stuff up as you go along or what, but you are beginning to sound as desperate as Moby with your responses!


Moby is more right than you on HCQ. Your fear of having to agree with Moby is going to get you to continue promoting HCQ 5, 10, or more years down the road when everybody has moved on. It's over for HCQ. Facilities that are qualified to conduct clinical trials are putting their money and effort into other drugs. They've moved on. Can't keep beating this dead horse called HCQ thinking something is going to change. It took many years to find a quality treatment for the virus that causes HIV. They still haven't found a cure(vaccine) to stop that virus. You guys thinking they can pull a quality treatment or vaccine out of their asses are not being rational. It's okay governments give you hope something is out there and they are working on a solution but don't mistake hope for truth. I gave you guys the truth that no vaccine or treatment has ever been found for any coronavirus. We will have sub par vaccines come out this year and next but under normal circumstances, they aren't vaccines that would be approved and we may try try again for who knows how many years to get a vaccine perfected.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 10, 2020, 04:00:42 PM

Moby is more right than you on HCQ. Your fear of having to agree with Moby is going to get you to continue promoting HCQ 5, 10, or more years down the road when everybody has moved on. It's over for HCQ. Facilities that are qualified to conduct clinical trials are putting their money and effort into other drugs. They've moved on. Can't keep beating this dead horse called HCQ thinking something is going to change. It took many years to find a quality treatment for the virus that causes HIV. They still haven't found a cure(vaccine) to stop that virus. You guys thinking they can pull a quality treatment or vaccine out of their asses are not being rational. It's okay governments give you hope something is out there and they are working on a solution but don't mistake hope for truth. I gave you guys the truth that no vaccine or treatment has ever been found for any coronavirus. We will have sub par vaccines come out this year and next but under normal circumstances, they aren't vaccines that would be approved and we may try try again for who knows how many years to get a vaccine perfected.

 "They moved on" ... who are they? Brazil, Switzerland, India, China, Russia, plus other countries have not moved on with Hydroxy, they are still using it and claiming success. It isn't just a handful of doctors from the US saying it works, many studies all around the world from different countries are saying it. If you don't want to question that it is up to you, but don't come here saying those links I provided are wrong with your proof being a retracted study and expect me to take you seriously.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2020, 06:45:55 PM

 "They moved on" ... who are they? Brazil, Switzerland, India, China, Russia, plus other countries have not moved on with Hydroxy, they are still using it and claiming success.


Back your statement with some articles. Even if you find the articles, they're probably old news. Everybody is moving away from HCQ. Here's one on Brazil from last week. They've pretty much stopped using it and most of it will end up in the trash.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/u-s-sent-brazil-millions-of-hydroxychloroquine-doses-months-later-they-re-still-in-storage-1.5050167
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 10, 2020, 07:50:08 PM


Back your statement with some articles. Even if you find the articles, they're probably old news. Everybody is moving away from HCQ. Here's one on Brazil from last week. They've pretty much stopped using it and most of it will end up in the trash.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/u-s-sent-brazil-millions-of-hydroxychloroquine-doses-months-later-they-re-still-in-storage-1.5050167



 I did provide links above if you would have taken the time to read them. Go look again, I'm not going to post them 10 times just because you chose to ignore them before.

  CTV actually got that article you linked from CNN. Are you now going to tell us that CNN is a credible news source?   Both of our major news networks here are anti Trump and you can watch them trying to slam him every evening here.  It's no wonder they chose to quote CNN... anything to make Trump look bad. He is a threat to this wonderful socialist utopia we have up here and you can see them coming up with something to slam him with every night. It's gotten sickening already. You might as well watch CNN when you watch our channels.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2020, 09:22:03 PM
It's no wonder they chose to quote CNN... anything to make Trump look bad.


As long as CNN didn't translate English to English for me, they can tell the truth. If a Brazillian official says verbatim HCQ is in storage and hardly being used, it's not CNN anti Trump news network propaganda twisting their words.

Here are the vaccines and treatments in the pipeline. You will see the most advanced candidates and the ones approved for emergency use. HCQ is not on the list anymore. We have better options and there is still guarantee we found a decent treatment. Time to let HCQ go.

https://www.bio.org/policy/human-health/vaccines-biodefense/coronavirus/pipeline-tracker
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 10, 2020, 10:52:46 PM
It's no wonder they chose to quote CNN... anything to make Trump look bad.


As long as CNN didn't translate English to English for me, they can tell the truth. If a Brazillian official says verbatim HCQ is in storage and hardly being used, it's not CNN anti Trump news network propaganda twisting their words.

Here are the vaccines and treatments in the pipeline. You will see the most advanced candidates and the ones approved for emergency use. HCQ is not on the list anymore. We have better options and there is still guarantee we found a decent treatment. Time to let HCQ go.

https://www.bio.org/policy/human-health/vaccines-biodefense/coronavirus/pipeline-tracker

 

Nothing new there, we already knew big pharma rejected it. What does that have to do with all the countries using it and claiming success?   :coffeeread:

 And seeing you back up CNN, who tries to discredit Trump every chance they get, just shows how desperate you are to try to back your assertion. Trump recommended Hydroxy... CNN has been on a tear trying to discredit it and him about that ever since. Everyone knows that. I provided a link showing test results in Brazil with it....

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

" In the northern Brazil state of Pará, COVID-19 deaths were increasing exponentially. On April 6, the public hospital network purchased 75,000 doses of azithromycin and 90,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine. Over the next few weeks, authorities began distributing these medications to infected individuals. Even though new cases continued to occur, on May 22 the death rate started to plummet and is now about one-eighth what it was at the peak.

 That was written by a Yale professor, but your CNN article that quotes unnamed sources and a disgruntled ex health minister who got fired proves that it's not true? He's lying? He just made those figure up? Yeah, sure, keep on drinking the kool aid... I'll pass!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 10, 2020, 11:29:59 PM
 We finally had a covid case here in our rural area, well might have anyways. My neighbor's niece went to the mountains for a few days with a college friend. While there her friend mentioned that her brother had it at the time. So when she got back home here she told her fiancee about that and they decided she should go in and get checked. Sure enough she tested positive and went under quarantine for 2 weeks. She stayed in a motorhome by herself at her grandparents farmyard. Her fiancee and his parents went got checked and they were negative, even though they were all in contact with her for 3 days before she went and got checked. She just finished her 2 week quarantine today and called in to let them know that she was ready to come get tested again. They just said no, if you feel fine and don't show any symptoms just go home.

 She never did feel any symptoms and questioned them about why that might be, and why didn't anyone who she was in contact with for those 3 days test positive. They told her, oh, that's common, a lot of times we get false -positive results. It probably happened to you.

 Hearing this sure makes me wonder how accurate these tests are. This girl might not have even had the virus, yet they weren't even interested in double checking to make sure. They just got her to quarantine just in case and lets see what happens. And now she is shown as a positive case in the stats when she probably didn't even have it. I wonder how many other cases like this there are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 11, 2020, 12:14:52 AM



 I don't know if you are just making this stuff up as you go along or what, but you are beginning to sound as desperate as Moby with your responses!


'Desperate' Moby merely points out HCQ is STILL not recommended re COVID-19 in our respective nations and reminds you, he know a great deal more than you about HCQ  :coffeeread:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 11, 2020, 02:08:30 AM
One test on its own without clinical support is not conclusive - never has been. False positives are rare with most tests but some in use in the USA are significantly worse than others.

If she had symptoms then the chances are that she had it.
This is why, in many places, including China, if a test shows positive then there's a follow up with a ct scan to look at the lungs because covid-19 shows up in the lungs.

Of course, it is easier, quicker, and cheaper to simply isolate anyone with a positive test. Afterward, follow up with an antibody test to confirm antibodies which will show if there has been covid-19 in the person. A positive result in each test is pretty conclusive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on August 11, 2020, 06:04:34 AM
This is what can happens with a with a under tested vaccine. This was copied not my writing.

You may remember during the 1970’s several hundred Americans developed Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) after receiving the Swine flu vaccine available at the time. A number of these people ended up paralyzed for life –a lesson many health professionals have yet to learn about while properly testing vaccines. Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), is a neurological autoimmune disorder, in which the body’s own antibodies begin attacking the myelin sheath around nerves. Usually, the syndrome begins after an infection, and affects just about any of the peripheral nerves that travel to the ends of the body. Patients can have sensory or motor disturbances.

Didn't several thousand Americans also die of cancer from nuclear explosion testing some years back? Including John Wayne ? Or is that just a story ? Im sure if your happy testing nuclear fallout in the general publics back years then the vaccine stuff is just kids talk.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 11, 2020, 08:38:44 AM
Trump recommended Hydroxy... CNN has been on a tear trying to discredit it and him about that ever since. Everyone knows that. I provided a link showing test results in Brazil with it....

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

That was written by a Yale professor, but your CNN article that quotes unnamed sources


Sure CNN's current mission is to prove everything Trump says is wrong but Trump isn't always right so with that fact, CNN can be right occasionally. CNN did name sources. Your Newsweek article is labeled an opinion piece. Only a handful of people are hanging on to HCQ. Most have moved on.


Rissa approves vaccine. From another article I believe they are going to start giving it to their public in October.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-announced-that-russia-approved-a-covid-19-vaccine-%e2%80%94-and-gave-it-to-his-daughter-%e2%80%94-despite-serious-concerns-over-its-safety/ar-BB17P0Zv?ocid=U218DHP



Phase 3 trail will be on the general population. My guess it's simply an inacative/dead virus vaccine which has the greatest chance for safety among vaccines but a low chance of being effective. If it were that easy to make a vaccine for a coronavirus using dead/inactive viruses, it would've happened for SARS, MERS, and the common cold viruses.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 11, 2020, 11:41:17 AM



 I don't know if you are just making this stuff up as you go along or what, but you are beginning to sound as desperate as Moby with your responses!


'Desperate' Moby merely points out HCQ is STILL not recommended re COVID-19 in our respective nations and reminds you, he know a great deal more than you about HCQ  :coffeeread:

 Oh yes, I remember...  you taught me that HCQ was safe enough for Lupus, Malaria and Arthritis, but too dangerous for a world wide pandemic  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 11, 2020, 01:19:55 PM
Billy why guess when you can read the truth very easily? If it's tough ask your wife to read for you.

Your 'guess' is incorrect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 11, 2020, 09:18:56 PM


 Oh yes, I remember...  you taught me that HCQ was safe enough for Lupus, Malaria and Arthritis, but too dangerous for a world wide pandemic  :ROFL:

 I taught you that HCQ actually works for Lupus, Malaria and Arthritis



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 12, 2020, 08:31:53 PM
 


 Oh yes, I remember...  you taught me that HCQ was safe enough for Lupus, Malaria and Arthritis, but too dangerous for a world wide pandemic  :ROFL:

 I taught you that HCQ actually works for Lupus, Malaria and Arthritis







No you didn't, I already knew that before we even started talking about it. What you taught me is that you are a drama queen who will say anything to try to prove a point... no matter how stupid it is. Too dangerous for something as deadly as corona yet worth the risk for the other ailments... sure...  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 13, 2020, 06:35:19 AM
Bugger, I had an antibody test on Tuesday. Wednesday, about 24 hours later, I received a phone call telling me that I have no relevant antibodies.

I had thought I had been infected on the occasion of my last visit to the UK before lock down started. The symptoms I experienced were almost certainly something else. I had been wandering around thinking I had been infected and recovered, now I will need to take relevant precautions both for my own sake and for the benefit of those around me.

Given my age and health, I will be one of the people queuing up for a vaccination when the opportunity arises, again for my own benefit and for those around me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 13, 2020, 07:17:39 AM
Bugger, I had an antibody test on Tuesday. Wednesday, about 24 hours later, I received a phone call telling me that I have no relevant antibodies.

I had thought I had been infected on the occasion of my last visit to the UK before lock down started. The symptoms I experienced were almost certainly something else. I had been wandering around thinking I had been infected and recovered, now I will need to take relevant precautions both for my own sake and for the benefit of those around me.

Given my age and health, I will be one of the people queuing up for a vaccination when the opportunity arises, again for my own benefit and for those around me.

Is it not possible that perhaps the anti-bodies have 'worn off' and therefore the test states that you're still a Covid virgin?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 13, 2020, 08:12:57 AM
It is possible but that'd imply a record breaking rate of loss of antibodies. :)

In addition, at the point when having 'certificates' becomes widespread, as I believe it will, it means that I will be one of the 'uninfected' and that will probably become a handicap.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 13, 2020, 12:15:09 PM
How much was your test? Superdrug are doing them for £89.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on August 13, 2020, 01:02:56 PM
Breaking News:

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/un-expert-says-covid-19-bioweapon/

WORLD ACADEMY OF BIOMEDICAL SCIENCES PRESIDENT AND RENOWNED BIOTECH EXPERT GIUSEPPE TRITTO HAS ALLEGED THAT COVID-19 WAS MAN-MADE, HAILING FROM A CHINESE MILITARY-LED EXPERIMENT, AND THAT IT’S “EXTREMELY UNLIKELY” THAT A SUCCESSFUL VACCINE WILL BE INVENTED.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 13, 2020, 01:14:44 PM
Breaking News:

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/un-expert-says-covid-19-bioweapon/

WORLD ACADEMY OF BIOMEDICAL SCIENCES PRESIDENT AND RENOWNED BIOTECH EXPERT GIUSEPPE TRITTO HAS ALLEGED THAT COVID-19 WAS MAN-MADE, HAILING FROM A CHINESE MILITARY-LED EXPERIMENT, AND THAT IT'S "EXTREMELY UNLIKELY" THAT A SUCCESSFUL VACCINE WILL BE INVENTED.

Looks like fake news. Raheem Kassan is no stranger to fake news. This Tritto bloke who is so "internationally renowned" I cant find so much on him older than a week, and the quoted "World Academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies" is nothing like it sounds. As a predatory publisher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Academy_of_Science,_Engineering_and_Technology), its the ideal place to plant a lump of fake news and watch it grow through the alt media.

You've been duped, Cuffy. I see no credible sources or easily checkable facts in that article.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 13, 2020, 01:15:03 PM

Change in plans folks. After the Filipino Food and Drug Administration reviewed the newly released Russian vaccine, The president decided he won't take it first but take in next year in May after they do a phase 3 trial on it among the Filipino people. Phase 3 should  should be completed in April.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/duterte-skip-philippine-trial-russia-092348187.html


41% of Americans have depression due to pandemic. For those who want to tell everybody to sit home and hide, you're going to mess up the lives of the living just to prevent a few deaths.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-is-devastating-americans-mental-health-cdc-says-170026332.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on August 13, 2020, 02:46:01 PM
HCQ used with zinc and an antibiotic works in preventing Covid virus replication in early stage infections... It is a medical fact:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/yale-epidemiologist-says-hydroxychloroquine-could-save-up-to-100k-lives-if-used-for-coronavirus

Yale epidemiologist says hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100K lives if used for coronavirus

An epidemiology professor at the Yale School of Public Health said hydroxychloroquine could save 100,000 lives from the coronavirus but added that the controversial anti-malaria drug has instead been used in a “propaganda war.”

"I think 75,000 to 100,000 lives will be saved," Dr. Harvey Risch said in an interview Tuesday evening with Fox News’s Laura Ingraham after she asked if thousands of lives could be saved if a hydroxychloroquine stockpile was released.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 13, 2020, 02:51:44 PM
Has anyone noticed that it tends to be left wingers who are absolutely 100% against Hydroxychloroquine? I’m unsure if Trump triggered them and they now couldn’t bear the thought of it being part of a solution.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 13, 2020, 06:24:33 PM
How much was your test? Superdrug are doing them for £89.

I don't know exactly as I had it with my normal set of blood tests that I do a couple of times a year. The last time they were done cost me about €60. This time I paid €81 so about €21.

I won't be needing to do it again, of course, unless I get symptoms. I'd have to try really, really, hard to get infected over here though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 13, 2020, 10:27:46 PM
HCQ used with zinc and an antibiotic works in preventing Covid virus replication in early stage infections... It is a medical fact:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/yale-epidemiologist-says-hydroxychloroquine-could-save-up-to-100k-lives-if-used-for-coronavirus

Yale epidemiologist says hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100K lives if used for coronavirus

An epidemiology professor at the Yale School of Public Health said hydroxychloroquine could save 100,000 lives from the coronavirus but added that the controversial anti-malaria drug has instead been used in a “propaganda war.”

"I think 75,000 to 100,000 lives will be saved," Dr. Harvey Risch said in an interview Tuesday evening with Fox News’s Laura Ingraham after she asked if thousands of lives could be saved if a hydroxychloroquine stockpile was released.

 Damn! Just when Moby and BillyB had me convinced that HCQ was a dead horse. Now I don't know what to think!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 14, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
HCQ used with zinc and an antibiotic works in preventing Covid virus replication in early stage infections... It is a medical fact:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/yale-epidemiologist-says-hydroxychloroquine-could-save-up-to-100k-lives-if-used-for-coronavirus

Yale epidemiologist says hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100K lives if used for coronavirus

An epidemiology professor at the Yale School of Public Health said hydroxychloroquine could save 100,000 lives from the coronavirus but added that the controversial anti-malaria drug has instead been used in a “propaganda war.”

"I think 75,000 to 100,000 lives will be saved," Dr. Harvey Risch said in an interview Tuesday evening with Fox News’s Laura Ingraham after she asked if thousands of lives could be saved if a hydroxychloroquine stockpile was released.

Article was from 3 weeks ago and they talked about the Henry Ford study that concluded more trials are needed. I think Henry Ford stopped their trials too. No need to pump more money into a dead horse.

Has anyone noticed that it tends to be left wingers who are absolutely 100% against Hydroxychloroquine? I’m unsure if Trump triggered them and they now couldn’t bear the thought of it being part of a solution.

Sure those on the left are against anything Trump recommends but even Trump moved on from HCQ. Mankind never created a treatment for any coronavirus. It's kind of silly to think we had something in our medicine cabinet for the mother of all coronaviruses.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 14, 2020, 12:50:34 AM
. Mankind never created a treatment for any coronavirus.

Hello? Russian vaccine? You just can’t bring yourself to admit it exists because it wasn’t made in the US.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 14, 2020, 01:03:31 AM

. Mankind never created a treatment for any coronavirus.


Hello? Russian vaccine? You just can’t bring yourself to admit it exists because it wasn’t made in the US.

Billy, is correct

The RU and other vaccines haven't been stage 3'd yet ..   

*I* don;t have an issue with who invents a vaccine, if it

a) works as advertised

b) doesn't have unpleasant side effects

c) been tested, following agreed protocols

I'm the last person that would say Russians don't have very smart scientists ....

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 14, 2020, 01:42:38 AM
Has anyone noticed that it tends to be left wingers who are absolutely 100% against Hydroxychloroquine? I’m unsure if Trump triggered them and they now couldn’t bear the thought of it being part of a solution.

Word!!  :ROFL:   :ROFL:    :ROFL:    tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 14, 2020, 01:44:37 AM
HCQ used with zinc and an antibiotic works in preventing Covid virus replication in early stage infections... It is a medical fact:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/yale-epidemiologist-says-hydroxychloroquine-could-save-up-to-100k-lives-if-used-for-coronavirus

Yale epidemiologist says hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100K lives if used for coronavirus

An epidemiology professor at the Yale School of Public Health said hydroxychloroquine could save 100,000 lives from the coronavirus but added that the controversial anti-malaria drug has instead been used in a “propaganda war.”

"I think 75,000 to 100,000 lives will be saved," Dr. Harvey Risch said in an interview Tuesday evening with Fox News’s Laura Ingraham after she asked if thousands of lives could be saved if a hydroxychloroquine stockpile was released.

Article was from 3 weeks ago and they talked about the Henry Ford study that concluded more trials are needed. I think Henry Ford stopped their trials too. No need to pump more money into a dead horse.

Has anyone noticed that it tends to be left wingers who are absolutely 100% against Hydroxychloroquine? I’m unsure if Trump triggered them and they now couldn’t bear the thought of it being part of a solution.

Sure those on the left are against anything Trump recommends but even Trump moved on from HCQ. Mankind never created a treatment for any coronavirus. It's kind of silly to think we had something in our medicine cabinet for the mother of all coronaviruses.

It's not silly at all but you are Billy.

Follow the money einstein.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 14, 2020, 04:25:29 AM
The HCQ thing is another good example of how a little knowledge and uninformed 'opinion' can be misleading, if not dangerous.

As I have mentioned before I have a subscription to Medscape.com that I use to track information about the current virus. Obviously one of the topics that keeps on coming up is HCQ and its purported effectiveness. It has become clear that while some people 'believe' the stuff is effective to a worthwhile degree the reality is rather different. It is also true that the drug is nowhere near as risky in use as negative propagandists proclaim.

The bottom line is that there is no randomised trial that confirms any worthwhile benefit from the use of HCQ with or without a zinc supplement. What we do see are what are called observational studies that purport to show a benefit.

Here's a quote from the article to which I will link below:
Quote
In an observational study, the observed effect of the exposure of interest (HCQ) on the outcome of interest is due to both its true causal effect and the characteristics of who was selected for treatment.

In a randomized trial, because the selection is random, the observed effect is due solely to the true effect of the treatment.

That's why we put so much stock in RCTs. Before RCTs are available, observational data are okay; we can use them to generate hypotheses. But observational studies should be used to design RCTs, and RCTs should be used to guide therapy. Hence my focus today on the extant RCTs.

Here is the link to the Medscape article. It is a transcript of an interview, the video for which is embedded in the article at the top of the page so that people who do not find reading convenient can be served as well as, if more slowly, than readers.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/935058

The takeaway is that when studies are randomised and therefore the effectiveness of the drug is separated from the selection of the candidates, HCQ has no value as a treatment for Coronavirus.

Look at the numbers, now there's no need to argue about uninformed opinions; you can see the primary data for yourself and learn the facts.
Argument closed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 14, 2020, 08:10:33 AM
. Mankind never created a treatment for any coronavirus.

Hello? Russian vaccine? You just can’t bring yourself to admit it exists because it wasn’t made in the US.

A vaccine is not a treatment it is a preventive measure. Flu vaccine are made every year to prevent the flu which is a corona virus. It does not take a high degree of skill to produce a vaccine. North Korea and Mexico are producing their own Vaccine. The trouble is vaccine can cause auto immune response in a if any part of the RNA code in the vaccine matches any part of the Human host DNA. Nearly all vaccine kill people it is just a matter if the vaccine kills one in ten or one in a billion. Without test no one knows how unsafe the vaccine is. 

The last article I read said Russia is planning now to only give the vaccine in October to high risk people and wait for the phase three trials to give it to the general public. This is of course a much smarter move.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 14, 2020, 09:08:21 AM
the flu which is a corona virus. It does not take a high degree of skill to produce a vaccine.

The flu is not Corona. Its from a strain of influenza.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 14, 2020, 10:45:12 AM
. Mankind never created a treatment for any coronavirus.

Hello? Russian vaccine? You just can’t bring yourself to admit it exists because it wasn’t made in the US.

Treatments and cures are two different things. We've talked about this months ago. HCQ was touted as a possible treatment. The Russian vaccine is touted as a cure but my guess it won't be effective and it won't last forever. My guess Western vaccines won't be a 100% cure either but they will have more testing done to prove they are safer.

It's not silly at all but you are Billy.

Follow the money einstein.

It's all about money for you. Don't you think some people care about humanity and want to get it right? Those medical doctors that participated in trials and seen the results are not protesting the conclusion of the trials. What people here are doing is finding a doctor who hasn't participated in a trial saying they believe HCQ works based on their limited observation of it.

Flu vaccine are made every year to prevent the flu which is a corona virus.


The coronavirus causing COVID is related to some cold viruses, not the flu viruses. Totally different and it's why the coronavirus isn't disappearing in the summer like the flu virus does. Vaccines are made for flus all the time. If the Spanish Flu showed up today, it would be quickly and easily conquered since they didn't have the know how to create vaccines back then. There has never been a save and effective vaccine created for any coronavirus in history. Not for SARS, MERS, or the ones that cause the common cold. If you go to your doctor and ask for a vaccine for the common cold, you will not get one. Yes, they will have vaccines this and next year come out but only because we are relaxing the rules otherwise everything coming out wouldn't never be called a vaccine based on last year's standards.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 14, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
Breaking News:

https://thenationalpulse.com/news/un-expert-says-covid-19-bioweapon/

WORLD ACADEMY OF BIOMEDICAL SCIENCES PRESIDENT AND RENOWNED BIOTECH EXPERT GIUSEPPE TRITTO HAS ALLEGED THAT COVID-19 WAS MAN-MADE, HAILING FROM A CHINESE MILITARY-LED EXPERIMENT, AND THAT IT’S "EXTREMELY UNLIKELY" THAT A SUCCESSFUL VACCINE WILL BE INVENTED.

Looks like fake news. Raheem Kassan is no stranger to fake news. This Tritto bloke who is so "internationally renowned" I cant find so much on him older than a week, and the quoted "World Academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies" is nothing like it sounds. As a predatory publisher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Academy_of_Science,_Engineering_and_Technology), its the ideal place to plant a lump of fake news and watch it grow through the alt media.

You've been duped, Cuffy. I see no credible sources or easily checkable facts in that article.

You see no credible sources or easily verifiable facts because the Cabal controls all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 14, 2020, 10:11:57 PM
Curious to read the opinion of members to the efficacy and usefulness in monitoring a persons body temperature. Is this a viable way to see the possibility of infection by the Corona Virus?.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 14, 2020, 11:20:43 PM
Curious to read the opinion of members to the efficacy and usefulness in monitoring a persons body temperature. Is this a viable way to see the possibility of infection by the Corona Virus?.

Reading temperature won't work on asymptomatic people or people who show few symptoms without fever. BUT, something is better than nothing when in situations of needing to check people. Anybody with a high temperature regardless of what illness they have shouldn't be getting on an airplane.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 18, 2020, 01:31:46 AM
Sweden

It seems that freedom of information requests have PROVED that Sweden was being taken on a path seeking 'herd immunity'

Sweden's Covid-19 strategist under fire over herd immunity emails


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/swedens-covid-19-strategist-under-fire-over-herd-immunity-emails (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/swedens-covid-19-strategist-under-fire-over-herd-immunity-emails)

email exchanges obtained by Swedish journalists under freedom of information laws show Tegnell discussing herd immunity as an objective in mid-March, days after the World Health Organization declared Covid-19 a pandemic.


Authorities estimated that 40% of Stockholm’s population would have contracted Covid-19 by May, but national studies have found immunity to the virus remains relatively low and a study published last week in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine concluded herd immunity was “nowhere in sight”.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 24, 2020, 12:21:02 AM
Corona virus getting worse in South Korea, Japan, all over Europe and in the UK. Also getting worse in Ukraine. There is a lot of concern of a second wave after school starts. This statement is a summary of  number of articles not just the one I posted.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/europe-braces-for-second-wave-of-coronavirus

Another odd note.

Scientists from Russia’s VECTOR State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology have shared a coronavirus update that purports to include a shockingly easy way to kill particles associated with the COVID-19 virus. Are you ready for this? These scientists say the coronavirus has a newly identified weakness, and it’s … water. Just ordinary, room-temperature water, though boiling water works even better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 24, 2020, 01:45:42 AM
Meanwhile in the medical world:

It seems that all sufferers from corona (asymptomatic, mild and severe cases) in 80% of cases develop a serious heart-condition where the heart-muscle is enlarged and some even septic (23% of cases).

The USA sports world noted this at first, with top-athletes dropping dead during training.

Medical blogs picked up much earlier with this study:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915

Forbes article:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/29/study-how-covid-19-coronavirus-may-affect-your-heart/
(Read the forbes article of the "second study" with the MRI for the really dangerous/scary stuff.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 26, 2020, 07:34:34 PM
At 4 minute and 52 seconds in this they report a man had the corona virus and then four months latter caught it again on a trip to Spain. It support the possibility immunity may not last all that long.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 26, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
 
Not surprised. Dr. Fauci said immunity from coronaviruses that cause the common cold last 3-6 months.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/hong-kong-man-was-reinfected-coronavirus-researchers-say-n1237840
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 27, 2020, 02:09:47 AM

Not surprised. Dr. Fauci said immunity from coronaviruses that cause the common cold last 3-6 months.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/hong-kong-man-was-reinfected-coronavirus-researchers-say-n1237840

Right, out goes dr. Faucis credibility. What an idiot. The common cold isn't caused by corona but by influenza. If he can't get even that basic fact right I will not take anything from him
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 27, 2020, 06:13:26 AM
Corona virus getting worse in South Korea, Japan, all over Europe and in the UK.

This is untrue. In the UK its pretty much gone apart from spikes in Muslim places and the odd pocket in Scotland. Deaths are negligible now. South Korea has only had 300 or so deaths in total.

UK deaths:

[attachimg=1]

South Korea deaths:

[attachimg=2]

Don't trust the Guardian. They twist data to make headlines.

Its burning out here. There wont be any second spike.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 27, 2020, 06:15:34 AM
Markje, you might want to give Fauci back some of his credibility. I thought you were misinformed so I checked.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/coldflu.htm
They are two different viruses.

For common cold we have several rhinoviruses. For covid-19 we have a coronavirus and for influenza we have a range of influenza viruses.

Manny, the infection rate in the UK has doubled over the past month. It has not gone away. Nothing has changed except people's behaviour. Death rates have fallen and seem to be continuing to fall but that's because treatment has improved due to knowledge and resources. Also important is that the age profile of infectees has fallen implying a lower death rate for that reason.

Hopefully the UK's Test and Trace plus postcode level infection data and response will keep infections under control.

Gone away, no, not yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 27, 2020, 06:27:33 AM
Infections that aren't fatal aren't terribly important. That's just people having some lurgy. Deaths are what matter, and at under 20 a day and falling, in context of an 80m population, Id regard that as finished.

What remains is continuing non fatal infections and herd immunity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 27, 2020, 07:06:07 AM
Infections that aren't fatal aren't terribly important. That's just people having some lurgy. Deaths are what matter, and at under 20 a day and falling, in context of an 80m population, Id regard that as finished.

What remains is continuing non fatal infections and herd immunity.

I'd pretty much agree with that.

I'm not saying we forget all about it and go back to 2019 modus operandi but the current death rates must put covid behind quite a number of important illness/disease that have a current higher mortality rate.

In July covid was only the 8th most frequent underlying cause of death in the UK, accounting for 2.6% of all deaths and 976 people. There were almost 39,000 deaths with dementia, Alzheimers and heart disease taking the most.

More interestingly there were fewer deaths in July 2020 than in July 2019. Where is moby with all his excess death banter?!

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/july2020

Interestingly in Sweden, the average number of daily deaths a week in 2020 is less than the average from 2015-2019. Moby would again tell us how terrible Sweden is.....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1115707/sweden-number-of-deaths-per-week/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 27, 2020, 07:09:43 AM

Not surprised. Dr. Fauci said immunity from coronaviruses that cause the common cold last 3-6 months.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/hong-kong-man-was-reinfected-coronavirus-researchers-say-n1237840

Right, out goes dr. Faucis credibility. What an idiot. The common cold isn't caused by corona but by influenza. If he can't get even that basic fact right I will not take anything from him

A few different viruses can cause the common cold. That can be Googled. Fauci isn't wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 28, 2020, 05:36:48 AM

This is untrue. In the UK its pretty much gone apart from spikes in Muslim places and the odd pocket in Scotland. Deaths are negligible now. South Korea has only had 300 or so deaths in total.



Manny is being disingenuous ( and racist) again

1/ Swindon has spikes ...

2/ Shropshire has spikes

3/ E.Glos / W.Oxon has spikes

They are 'well known' Muzzie ( his word)  haunts ( not )

Where Manny lives has a higher than average count ....    Go on, tell us that M and H have a high 'Muzzie' count

The Guardian is more factual than most UK journals and has been used by whistleblowers such as Edward Snowden and Julian Assange.. 


What Manny 'objects' to is their sl. left of centre editorial ..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 28, 2020, 05:38:50 AM
A little humour

(https://i.imgur.com/wp9OTFB.jpg)

Trampu: ( you'll note 'Russians never say this' , according to our RU 'lang experts'... ) I have tried the Russian virus and there's no side effects
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 28, 2020, 08:03:24 AM
Where Manny lives has a higher than average count ....    Go on, tell us that M and H have a high 'Muzzie' count

That isn't true. I don't think the Waitrose vans are spreading it and there's only one pub, a handful of shops and lots of old folk who stay home. The nearby council estate (underclass) will skew figures for M, and H is full of Muzzies, yes. You're out of date there.

You cant get away from the fact that places like Pendle, AUL, Accrington, Oldham, Leicester, Blackburn, etc are all Muzzie infested areas. I know those facts eat you up, but they're true.   

The Guardian is more factual than most UK journals

Come now.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on August 28, 2020, 11:47:27 AM
Surely this thread is longer than the Brexit one now? I miss Brexit .. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 28, 2020, 12:40:34 PM
A little humour

(https://i.imgur.com/wp9OTFB.jpg)

Trampu: ( you'll note 'Russians never say this' , according to our RU 'lang experts'... ) I have tried the Russian virus and there's no side effects

 More fake news from the leftys! Truth is the vaccine also cures baldness... that's actually Putin!
 Only drawback is the hair comes back automatically styled like Trump's, since it's based off his DNA they got from samples collected when he did that golden shower gig a while back
 Could be worse though... what if they used Boris's...  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 28, 2020, 12:54:55 PM
By October this is likely to be much worse because of schools in session. It would not surprise me if schools do not have to get closed again around October until there is a vaccine.  We have ordered a large number of test kits that give instant results. This is about our only hope that we might control the virus. I truly doubt there is enough of them.  We would have to test every student every week and that still may not be enough to control this virus. 

 That will never happen. Most parents need their children in school so they can go back to work while they are there for the day. Assistance payments are coming to an end, the govt can't be giving out free money forever, people need to go back to making a living. Besides, with the fatality rate being around that .05% rate this virus is showing to be no more dangerous than a bad flu season. And they are saying these vaccines most likely won't be effective forever, the virus will mutate and new ones will have to be made. Keep the vulnerable safe and let it run it's course, just like with the flu

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 28, 2020, 04:43:10 PM
Keep the vulnerable safe and let it run it's course, just like with the flu

I agree with that. My kids are going back to school next week. My sons school has 1000+ kids in, they’ve implemented all kinds of social distancing and requirements for masks in crowded areas. My daughters school is much more relaxed. Her class sizes are typically only 15 kids so that isn’t a great problem with distancing.

It’s only a case of nailing down the spikes now. That means Muslim areas, places young people congregate, people coming back from abroad and trying to keep the underclass in line.

Data here suggests the virus is becoming less serious as it mutates and spreads. If the spikes are kept under control herd immunity will arrive slowly.

Deaths are low enough now that we can disregard it as a serious threat and disregard the idea of a second spike. Common sense and hygiene is all that is needed now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 28, 2020, 08:42:53 PM

If the virus got out of control like it did in New York and New Jersey, within a few months it killed one of every 600 citizens there. The flu, heart disease, or any other injury or illness can't come close to killing as many humans. With a few states out of control on deaths, it elevated the coronavirus as the number one killer of Americans. The reason we don't see a lot of deaths now is because we have altered our way of life to prevent spread.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 28, 2020, 09:07:56 PM
It’s only a case of nailing down the spikes now. That means Muslim areas, places young people congregate, people coming back from abroad and trying to keep the underclass in line.

Data here suggests the virus is becoming less serious as it mutates and spreads. If the spikes are kept under control herd immunity will arrive slowly.

I hope you are right but I fear you are wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on August 29, 2020, 12:18:58 AM


I agree with that. My kids are going back to school next week. My sons school has 1000+ kids in, they’ve implemented all kinds of social distancing and requirements for masks in crowded areas. My daughters school is much more relaxed. Her class sizes are typically only 15 kids so that isn’t a great problem with distancing.

It’s only a case of nailing down the spikes now. That means Muslim areas, places young people congregate, people coming back from abroad and trying to keep the underclass in line.

Data here suggests the virus is becoming less serious as it mutates and spreads. If the spikes are kept under control herd immunity will arrive slowly.

Deaths are low enough now that we can disregard it as a serious threat and disregard the idea of a second spike. Common sense and hygiene is all that is needed now.

You and d don't seem to 'get it' ..

1/ This virus isn't racially biased. The tosh about 'Muzzies' ( given spikes in rural areas and meat processing plants in Wales, Scotland, Swindon, Germany and many other non 'Muslim ' nations processing Pork should have been a clue to you.

FACT: working in AirCon environments in close proximity...not good. Manual workers and those using public transport are at higher risk...That includes kids on the school bus and at school.

2/ Australia and Hong Kong thought they had the virus 'nailed down' and a leaked SAGE report in the UK speaks of potential spikes and worse case scenarios in the winter of 85K deaths.

The scientists can't agree on forecasts and with your 'reasoning' you may be unpleasany surprised.





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 29, 2020, 07:05:03 AM

I agree with that. My kids are going back to school next week. My sons school has 1000+ kids in, they’ve implemented all kinds of social distancing and requirements for masks in crowded areas. My daughters school is much more relaxed. Her class sizes are typically only 15 kids so that isn’t a great problem with distancing.

It’s only a case of nailing down the spikes now. That means Muslim areas, places young people congregate, people coming back from abroad and trying to keep the underclass in line.

Data here suggests the virus is becoming less serious as it mutates and spreads. If the spikes are kept under control herd immunity will arrive slowly.

Deaths are low enough now that we can disregard it as a serious threat and disregard the idea of a second spike. Common sense and hygiene is all that is needed now.

You and d don't seem to 'get it' ..

1/ This virus isn't racially biased. The tosh about 'Muzzies' ( given spikes in rural areas and meat processing plants in Wales, Scotland, Swindon, Germany and many other non 'Muslim ' nations processing Pork should have been a clue to you.

FACT: working in AirCon environments in close proximity...not good. Manual workers and those using public transport are at higher risk...That includes kids on the school bus and at school.

2/ Australia and Hong Kong thought they had the virus 'nailed down' and a leaked SAGE report in the UK speaks of potential spikes and worse case scenarios in the winter of 85K deaths.

The scientists can't agree on forecasts and with your 'reasoning' you may be unpleasany surprised.

From what I can see ms is largely correct.  (excepting his Natural English spelling) He is though referring to worse case scenarios and somehow ms referring to clues is almost hilarious.

What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %. Credit for this is not a weakening of the virus, but rather better by medical specialists.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 29, 2020, 09:56:26 AM
This is a story about a virus that got different strain of the virus a few weeks after getting rid of the first infection. The second infection was much worse than the original infection. There is no way the virus is the same one he had originally because if is a different strain of the corona Virus which he had and he seemly had no immunity to the second strain after getting rid of the first. 


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/lab-confirms-1st-coronavirus-reinfection-in-the-us/ar-BB18tWXp?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 29, 2020, 01:24:21 PM
racially biased.

Why must you keep banging on about race? Just because you married an apparently non white woman from a Muslim background, you don’t need to leap to the defence of every Muslim on the planet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on August 29, 2020, 01:48:04 PM
racially biased.

Why must you keep banging on about race? Just because you married an apparently non white woman from a Muslim background, you don’t need to leap to the defence of every Muslim on the planet.
I don’t know why he doesn’t just go the whole hog and get his knob attended to. Then he can grow a beard, wear a dishdash and bend over five times a day.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 29, 2020, 08:01:27 PM
racially biased.

Why must you keep banging on about race? Just because you married an apparently non white woman from a Muslim background, you don’t need to leap to the defence of every Muslim on the planet.
I don’t know why he doesn’t just go the whole hog and get his knob attended to. Then he can grow a beard, wear a dishdash and bend over five times a day.

Perhaps he has already bent over for the Blue Berets?

Mind you not my kind of service.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 29, 2020, 09:56:46 PM


After 4 weeks of battling the COVID in a Ukrainian hospital, my wife's uncle finally went home. Medical tests shows he has heart and lung damage though. Hopefully it won't be permanent.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 29, 2020, 11:10:43 PM
.
What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %.

This is wrong. The Worldometer will show you it’s 1.4%. And that includes the old and those with underlying conditions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 30, 2020, 12:25:11 AM
.
What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %.

This is wrong. The Worldometer will show you it’s 1.4%. And that includes the old and those with underlying conditions.

Case fatality rate is CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered) according to Worldometers

842,158 / (842,158 + 17,429,943) = 4.6% CFR (outside of mainland China)

This information is near the bottom of the Worldometers page in link below. A lot of bad journalists and right wing commentators don't know how to use the CFR formula. With so many nations deceiving how bad it is in their country to prevent public backlash, I'm sure the true case fatality rate is higher than the current 4.6%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 30, 2020, 01:25:54 AM
.
What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %.

This is wrong. The Worldometer will show you it’s 1.4%. And that includes the old and those with underlying conditions.

Case fatality rate is CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered) according to Worldometers

842,158 / (842,158 + 17,429,943) = 4.6% CFR (outside of mainland China)

This information is near the bottom of the Worldometers page in link below. A lot of bad journalists and right wing commentators don't know how to use the CFR formula. With so many nations deceiving how bad it is in their country to prevent public backlash, I'm sure the true case fatality rate is higher than the current 4.6%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

 I disagree, there are literally millions of people who had covid and haven't been counted.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/new-york-coronavirus-antibodies-study/index.html

By the end of March, 1 in 7 New York adults had Covid-19 -- about 10 times higher than the official account, according to a new study sponsored by the New York State Department of Health.

 10x... that's huge. If that was the average uncounted amount throughout the world you are looking at .46%
 Between that and word of so many false positives being counted as cases there's no way it could that high. The real number is way lower.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 30, 2020, 02:05:06 AM

You and d don't seem to 'get it' ..


 No, it's you who don't seem to get it. Your line of thinking is one of someone who is rich, or has a job not effected by covid, or who doesn't have a pot to piss in so has nothing to lose anyways. Thanks to society training us to live in debt there are tens of millions of people out there who have mortgages, car payments, credit card payments and other expenses who are getting behind more and more every month. They need to get back to work before they lose everything. the payments are not enough to cover all the average person's expenses. And soon those payments are going to stop. Children are going back to school because the parents need them to, daycare cost here in Canada are anywhere from 1000-1600 per month per kid. Most people can't afford that.

 The govts all know this so there is not going to be more schools closing down, no more stores closing down and no more lockdowns happening. It's just not possible to do it, people can't survive this way anymore. We are just going to have to get use to living with the risk of covid around us, and with such a low fatality rate it will not be much different than a bad flu strain. So you better get use to it.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 30, 2020, 06:10:10 AM
[some fake news and scaremongering]

Billy, its nothing like 4. anything %. You're spreading fake news. The death rate is widely regarded to be way less than 1%. Most people have no symptoms at all, so infections have been far, far more than recorded. It doesn't really affect kids and healthy younger people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 30, 2020, 06:14:34 AM

Case fatality rate is CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered) according to Worldometers

842,158 / (842,158 + 17,429,943) = 4.6% CFR (outside of mainland China)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

The trouble with this formula is the number of recovered is a complete unknown and deaths are not much better. So your formula is

unknown 1 /  ( unknown 1 plus unknown 2 ) = nothing real

 Well over half of the people getting this disease are never tested. Then in different countries they count deaths differently. Then all over the world there are different rates of testing and  nearly no country is finding even half of the infected people. The truth of the matter there are not any good numbers about this disease other than what per cent die in ICUs, and how many are in hospitals.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 30, 2020, 11:49:28 AM
[some fake news and scaremongering]

Billy, its nothing like 4. anything %. You're spreading fake news. The death rate is widely regarded to be way less than 1%. Most people have no symptoms at all, so infections have been far, far more than recorded. It doesn't really affect kids and healthy younger people.

I just gave you a page where the statisticians at Worldometers defined case fatality rate, gave us the formula and did the calculations for us pertaining to the coronavirus CFR. These are facts, not fake news. Anybody trying to deviate from the formula has an agenda to fit their narrative.


.
What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %.

This is wrong. The Worldometer will show you it’s 1.4%. And that includes the old and those with underlying conditions.

Case fatality rate is CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered) according to Worldometers

842,158 / (842,158 + 17,429,943) = 4.6% CFR (outside of mainland China)

This information is near the bottom of the Worldometers page in link below. A lot of bad journalists and right wing commentators don't know how to use the CFR formula. With so many nations deceiving how bad it is in their country to prevent public backlash, I'm sure the true case fatality rate is higher than the current 4.6%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

 I disagree, there are literally millions of people who had covid and haven't been counted.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/new-york-coronavirus-antibodies-study/index.html

By the end of March, 1 in 7 New York adults had Covid-19 -- about 10 times higher than the official account, according to a new study sponsored by the New York State Department of Health.

 10x... that's huge. If that was the average uncounted amount throughout the world you are looking at .46%
 Between that and word of so many false positives being counted as cases there's no way it could that high. The real number is way lower.

There are many people who died of COVID in their home and did not get a test showing they're positive. There are many nations deceiving their people about the death toll from COVID either because they can't afford tests or on purpose so they don't commit political suicide.  Trump willingly sacrificed trillions of dollars and our economy to bring the death toll down. Trump is spending hundreds of billions if not trillions to find treatments and vaccines to beat this virus. This virus is costing us and other countries big time because it is bad news. We have altered our way of life and sacrificed our economies to bring the death toll to acceptable levels. Although the amount and percentage of deaths don't seem alarming right now, it's only because we took massive action against the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 30, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Many words, Billy.

One death in the UK today: https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1300088510070824960?s=21

But 1715 new cases. That’s a fatality rate of 0.059%.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 30, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
[some fake news and scaremongering]

Billy, its nothing like 4. anything %. You're spreading fake news. The death rate is widely regarded to be way less than 1%. Most people have no symptoms at all, so infections have been far, far more than recorded. It doesn't really affect kids and healthy younger people.

I just gave you a page where the statisticians at Worldometers defined case fatality rate, gave us the formula and did the calculations for us pertaining to the coronavirus CFR. These are facts, not fake news. Anybody trying to deviate from the formula has an agenda to fit their narrative.


.
What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %.

This is wrong. The Worldometer will show you it’s 1.4%. And that includes the old and those with underlying conditions.

Case fatality rate is CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered) according to Worldometers

842,158 / (842,158 + 17,429,943) = 4.6% CFR (outside of mainland China)

This information is near the bottom of the Worldometers page in link below. A lot of bad journalists and right wing commentators don't know how to use the CFR formula. With so many nations deceiving how bad it is in their country to prevent public backlash, I'm sure the true case fatality rate is higher than the current 4.6%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

 I disagree, there are literally millions of people who had covid and haven't been counted.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/health/new-york-coronavirus-antibodies-study/index.html

By the end of March, 1 in 7 New York adults had Covid-19 -- about 10 times higher than the official account, according to a new study sponsored by the New York State Department of Health.

 10x... that's huge. If that was the average uncounted amount throughout the world you are looking at .46%
 Between that and word of so many false positives being counted as cases there's no way it could that high. The real number is way lower.

There are many people who died of COVID in their home and did not get a test showing they're positive. There are many nations deceiving their people about the death toll from COVID either because they can't afford tests or on purpose so they don't commit political suicide.  Trump willingly sacrificed trillions of dollars and our economy to bring the death toll down. Trump is spending hundreds of billions if not trillions to find treatments and vaccines to beat this virus. This virus is costing us and other countries big time because it is bad news. We have altered our way of life and sacrificed our economies to bring the death toll to acceptable levels. Although the amount and percentage of deaths don't seem alarming right now, it's only because we took massive action against the virus.

 The world quarterly death rate doesn't back your theory, the death rate in 2020 only went up by .03% from 2019. Not 4.6% or more, not even say 3% if you allow for less people driving, not working, etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=quarterly+worldwide+deaths+2019&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA731CA731&oq=quarterly+worldwide+deaths+2019&aqs=chrome..69i57j33l7.26556j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 That article showing that there could be 10x more cases than reported sounds correct according to the math. .03% increase in total deaths falls right in line with that. Deaths are deaths, whether they are from covid or something else.   And that amount of deaths show that your numbers cannot be true.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on August 30, 2020, 03:34:16 PM
Many words, Billy.

One death in the UK today: https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1300088510070824960?s=21

But 1715 new cases. That’s a fatality rate of 0.059%.

 Hmmm... world death rate up .033%...  fatality rate of .059%.... what a coincidence!   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 30, 2020, 04:21:02 PM
This virus is costing us and other countries big time because it is bad news. We have altered our way of life and sacrificed our economies to bring the death toll to acceptable levels. Although the amount and percentage of deaths don't seem alarming right now, it's only because we took massive action against the virus.

This part I whole-heartely agree upon. The death toll isn't low because the virus is not dangerous, it is low because of the massive effort to combat it.

I have ECR844 still on my friends list and see his posts sometimes, they are terryfing really. And my extended family includes 2 nurses, their posts on facebook are equally unpleasent.

Nope, I will stay in self-imposed lockdown a while longer thank you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Guile on August 30, 2020, 05:05:54 PM
A little humour

(https://i.imgur.com/wp9OTFB.jpg)

Trampu: ( you'll note 'Russians never say this' , according to our RU 'lang experts'... )

It's spelt Трамп there..where's the "u" at the end? :'( :'(  You don't even know which case to use and when in Russian.

Here's a Russian case lesson for you: Трампа, Трампом,Трампу.  Do you know when to use each one or do you blindly throw a letter.

Translate this: Марк Смит любит Дональда Трампа  :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 30, 2020, 08:18:12 PM
Many words, Billy.

One death in the UK today: https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1300088510070824960?s=21

But 1715 new cases. That’s a fatality rate of 0.059%.

That's good news. By altering our lives with masks and social distancing, by not overloading hospitals so they can function efficiently, and by isolating the elderly from the rest of the population every nation should see lower deaths and lower fatality rates. If we let this virus run wild without taking measures against it, you will see overloaded hospitals and the true fatality rate the beast is capable of.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 30, 2020, 08:42:18 PM
.
What is worth noting is the fatality rate from contracting COVID is declining. From the low teens to 5 or 6 %.

This is wrong. The Worldometer will show you it’s 1.4%. And that includes the old and those with underlying conditions.

Let me clarify my thinking regarding the percentages and numbers. I should have noted from contracting Covid to being hospitalized to death or recovery. This percentage is declining. I suspect this is due to a better medical regime or approach.

For the first time, last week I met a family that had confirmed Covid illness in Connecticut. They lived in one of the hot spots. The entire family was sick, they all recovered the youngest (5 years old) at the time was the sickest. In March they were sick for about 5 to 10 days and slowly recovered.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 30, 2020, 09:18:29 PM
There is some improvement in health care but also the second wave of the virus is effecting younger people who are more likely to survive the disease. So much of the success we are having with the virus is keeping old people for getting it as it seem to be impossible to get younger people to practice social distancing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on August 31, 2020, 12:41:27 PM
There is some improvement in health care but also the second wave of the virus is effecting younger people who are more likely to survive the disease. So much of the success we are having with the virus is keeping old people for getting it as it seem to be impossible to get younger people to practice social distancing.

The problem is youngsters today simply don't give a fig.. they lack a bloody good hiding and a bit of good old discipline! Simple really!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 31, 2020, 03:11:21 PM
This was copied from email material I have received.

The CDC is now breaking out the numbers. Only 6% of the COVID-19 deaths died exclusively from COVID-19. Just 6%! On average, the rest of the COVID-19 “deaths” had two or three other underlying causes of death (the average was 2.6).

COVID-19 total “deaths” in the U.S. are at 168,864.

So 6% is only 10,131 deaths from COVID-19 with no other underlying causes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Ward_Cleaver on August 31, 2020, 03:16:15 PM
The trouble with this formula is the number of recovered is a complete unknown and deaths are not much better. So your formula is

unknown 1 /  ( unknown 1 plus unknown 2 ) = nothing real

Just thought I would poke my head in the room.  Looks like the discussion here is not much different than everywhere else.  I can tell you that here in Utah where I live the fatality is 0.6% (last I checked).  Extrapolating the deaths out to the end of the year shows that this will be worse than the flu (using data from Utah 2014 - 2017).  In fact it is worse than kidney disease and almost as bad diabetes.  (a.k.a. this who thing turned out to be a giant nothing burger that the swamp is using as an excuse to grab power)

I'm going to stick my head in a few other places and see if I can find anything interesting to read while I eat my dinner.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 02, 2020, 03:42:42 AM
Sky news feeding the Libtards with what they want them to believe.

An article posted today tells us that the Uk will be tipped towards a second wave unless the government targets the virus in the 'deprived' areas. Yes we all know that some scummy folks aren't exactly doing their bit but this article is purposely misleading by using the term deprived, to replace muslim.

From the article;

"Zaffer Khan, the head of One Voice Blackburn, told Sky News that less affluent neighbourhoods have borne the brunt of the epidemic because they've been overlooked."

"Mr Khan drove Sky News around the hilly, terraced streets of north Blackburn that have been at the centre of a flare-up of the virus in recent weeks."

"There can be three or even four generations living under one roof, overcrowding that not only helps the virus spread rapidly, but also puts older, more vulnerable people at risk."

"Working class boroughs, especially those with a higher concentration of BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) communities, are often the most deprived in Blackburn and the country," he said."


"When the dust settles people will realise that the government has made a disaster of this crisis and made it worse than it should have been," he said."

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-over-second-wave-unless-deprived-areas-are-targeted-12061083

So the headline wants us to believe that the government are to blame and its deprived people who will suffer. When you read the article and actually look at it outwith the do goody liberal lens, we see its actually the muslim communities with their culture and housing arrangements that are to blame. The government isn't there to force social distancing, hand washing, mask wearing and general vigilance. This is the responsibility of the people receiving the advice. The left of course wants more government interference and control over their lives, unless its Tory.

Resident troll incoming 3,2,1......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 02, 2020, 05:45:33 AM
It looks like local activists and professional beggars are now going to use Covid-19 as a lever to prise more money out of local and national government to benefit said beggars' preferred victim group.

I'd bet that there's an unstated message of blackmail going on here as well with a 'look what's happening in the USA, it'd be a shame if our 'deprived people' were to start acting out like over there!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 03, 2020, 03:28:07 AM
Sky news feeding the Libtards with what they want them to believe.

An article posted today tells us that the Uk will be tipped towards a second wave unless the government targets the virus in the 'deprived' areas. Yes we all know that some scummy folks aren't exactly doing their bit but this article is purposely misleading by using the term deprived, to replace muslim.

From the article;

"Zaffer Khan, the head of One Voice Blackburn, told Sky News that less affluent neighbourhoods have borne the brunt of the epidemic because they've been overlooked."

"Mr Khan drove Sky News around the hilly, terraced streets of north Blackburn that have been at the centre of a flare-up of the virus in recent weeks."

"There can be three or even four generations living under one roof, overcrowding that not only helps the virus spread rapidly, but also puts older, more vulnerable people at risk."

"Working class boroughs, especially those with a higher concentration of BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) communities, are often the most deprived in Blackburn and the country," he said."


"When the dust settles people will realise that the government has made a disaster of this crisis and made it worse than it should have been," he said."

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-over-second-wave-unless-deprived-areas-are-targeted-12061083

So the headline wants us to believe that the government are to blame and its deprived people who will suffer. When you read the article and actually look at it outwith the do goody liberal lens, we see its actually the muslim communities with their culture and housing arrangements that are to blame. The government isn't there to force social distancing, hand washing, mask wearing and general vigilance. This is the responsibility of the people receiving the advice. The left of course wants more government interference and control over their lives, unless its Tory.

Resident troll incoming 3,2,1......

Rosco, the 'troll' is the non too intelligent chap who 'forgets' that SKY News doesn't pander to the left or right ...

The UK govt ARE to blame...

1/ They lied about testing targets

2/ They told us 20k deaths would be too many .. and now under-report the true deaths stats as per the Office of National Stats

3/ They told us we had "world leading tests" on Jan 24th

4/ They allow ministerial advisors to set shyte behaviour standards - which had the general public lose respect re advice the govt issued ..

5/ No testing at airports / ports ..

6/ 'Losing' advisors who wouldn't support govt lies ...Head Nursing spokesperson ( Ruth May) and a leading Prof (Professor Van-Tam is an internationally recognised flu, vaccine and respiratory expert.) ..dropped from briefings

7/ . exam results fiasco ..  Labour up 26 points, Tories down ...  Tories' lead gone

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/how-did-labour-climb-26-points-to-match-tories-in-opinion-polls-1.4342148

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-chief-nurse-dominic-cummings-ruth-may-daily-briefing-downing-street-a9562741.html

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/professor-jonathan-van-tam-cummings-18336886





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 03, 2020, 04:57:16 AM
7/ . exam results fiasco ..  Labour up 26 points, Tories down ...  Tories' lead gone

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/how-did-labour-climb-26-points-to-match-tories-in-opinion-polls-1.4342148

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-chief-nurse-dominic-cummings-ruth-may-daily-briefing-downing-street-a9562741.html

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/professor-jonathan-van-tam-cummings-18336886

Meanwhile in the real non-lefty world:

Quote
Recent voting intention figures continue to show a moderate Conservative lead of between 6 and 9 points.

https://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 03, 2020, 05:44:31 AM
Rosco, the 'troll' is the non too intelligent chap who 'forgets' that SKY News doesn't pander to the left or right ...

Thanks for destroying your own reputation in one sentence.

Sky & Sky sports is all about pandering to the left under the guise of inclusivity and diversity. It's literally written all over their product. You just cant see it because you're a raving looney who is unaware of his surroundings.

Sky sports yesterday banged on about 100 days after George Floyd death, as if that has anything to do with sport. The F1 presenters openly criticised drivers every weekend for not talking a knee and pandering to BLM. The football has BLM logo's eveywhere. There are rainbow flags everywhere. White male pundits presenting on male sports are being booted out at an alarming rate to be replaced with female/minority presenters. It's literally what they do Moby...... :'(

All of the above is noble and I wholehearted agree with diversity, inclusivity and fairness but when its force fed and follows a political cult, it becomes fake. It becomes a movement that people pay to absorb and its wrong. You matey have zero intelligence and my dog makes more sense.

https://www.skygroup.sky/article/sky-commits-30m-to-support-the-fight-against-racial-injustice-and-invest-more-in-diversity-and-inclusion
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 03, 2020, 09:40:30 PM
Rosco, when it comes to things F1, best you don't embarrass yourself by posting tosh.

1/ F1 is owned by Liberty

2/ SKY buy the rights from Liberty and the feeds are from FOM.

3/ SKY commentate on the feeds.

Liberty have taken a stance to identify with the current World Champ and likely next champ, Lewis Hamilton who identifies himself as Black.

Mercedes have changed their silver livery to black for this season.

Some drivers have 'taken the knee and worn t shirts seeking racial equality and others BLM.

FOM, according to HAM didn't cover the driver's demonstrations enough, after the first GP and it has been better coordinated.

Commentors have NOT 'openly criticised' lack of any driver support. The HAM 'bust up' between Grosjean from the GPDA ( drivers representation ) was.

That you would even post this makes SKY 'pinkos' is more a function of your being somewhat out of touch.





You


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on September 08, 2020, 06:07:37 PM
Quote
“Now we’re all here together tonight. And we’re being human once again. F*** that COVID s***.”

The researchers found that the rally, which hosted 462,182 people between Aug. 7 and 16, “generated substantial public health costs,” totaling $12.2 billion.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sturgis-motorcycle-rally-spread-coronavirus-across-the-nation-leading-to-12-billion-in-healthcare-costa-182736696.html

Looks like you are the ones who are going to be smash mouthed    :censored:     :evilgrin0002: :party0031: :'(

P.S.  The current projection of total deaths could be doubled by the end of this year.   More volunteer grave diggers needed,   :GRAVE: :sick0002: :evilgrin0002: :scared0005: :o :duh: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 08, 2020, 06:49:40 PM
Quote
“Now we’re all here together tonight. And we’re being human once again. F*** that COVID s***.”

The researchers found that the rally, which hosted 462,182 people between Aug. 7 and 16, “generated substantial public health costs,” totaling $12.2 billion.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sturgis-motorcycle-rally-spread-coronavirus-across-the-nation-leading-to-12-billion-in-healthcare-costa-182736696.html

Looks like you are the ones who are going to be smash mouthed    :censored:     :evilgrin0002: :party0031: :'(

P.S.  The current projection of total deaths could be doubled by the end of this year.   More volunteer grave diggers needed,   :GRAVE: :sick0002: :evilgrin0002: :scared0005: :o :duh: :biggrin:

Lol, over 12 billion in health care costs. The study said it would be cheaper to pay over 400,000 people $26,500 each not to attend the event. It's the same study that said the 100+ days of protests and riots cause very little spread of COVID. Sounds like a biased study to me. Oh well, Liberals can have fun and destroy the environment at their Burning Man festival and then continue with Trump isn't doing enough to stop the spread of COVID.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/thousands-of-burning-man-fans-violated-social-distancing-laws-to-hold-their-own-festivals-in-the-nevada-desert-and-on-california-beaches/ar-BB18NvDz?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 08, 2020, 07:34:19 PM

One leading vaccine has been put on hold for a safety issue. They are investigating an unexplained illness. Over 100 vaccines that are currently in development worldwide, I predict only a handful will be accepted.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/oxford-vaccine-trial-on-hold-because-of-safety-issue/ar-BB18PRzl?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 09, 2020, 03:00:30 AM
Lol thanks for posting the most recent example of how you repeatedly don't understand the world around you. It maybe explains your fits of rage at women and vulnerable people but I'm more convinced than ever, that your faculties are failing quick.

You said and I quote.

Rosco, the 'troll' is the non too intelligent chap who 'forgets' that SKY News doesn't pander to the left or right ...

I gave you clear examples of how they do pander to the left and support left wing movements. I also said:

Sky sports yesterday banged on about 100 days after George Floyd death, as if that has anything to do with sport. The F1 presenters openly criticised drivers every weekend for not talking a knee and pandering to BLM. The football has BLM logo's eveywhere. There are rainbow flags everywhere. White male pundits presenting on male sports are being booted out at an alarming rate to be replaced with female/minority presenters. It's literally what they do Moby......

My comments regarding F1 and Sky, point to Simon Lazenby (the anchor) at each Grand Prix since the re-start, criticising the drivers for not all taking a knee and the lack of unity amongst them. Not once did he listen to those who chose not to take the knee and accept their opinions regarding the political movement. He was creating a divide with the sky agenda, which was ladled on thick.

So you responded with.....


1/ F1 is owned by Liberty

2/ SKY buy the rights from Liberty and the feeds are from FOM.

3/ SKY commentate on the feeds.

Liberty have taken a stance to identify with the current World Champ and likely next champ, Lewis Hamilton who identifies himself as Black.

Mercedes have changed their silver livery to black for this season.

Some drivers have 'taken the knee and worn t shirts seeking racial equality and others BLM.

FOM, according to HAM didn't cover the driver's demonstrations enough, after the first GP and it has been better coordinated.

Commentors have NOT 'openly criticised' lack of any driver support. The HAM 'bust up' between Grosjean from the GPDA ( drivers representation ) was.

What does Liberty have to do with this conversation? Nothing.

What does buying the rights to the feed have to do with the conversation? I'm literally talking about the people on your screen and what they said, not the pictures!!

What does Merc have to do with this conversation? Nothing.

I literally mentioned the drivers taking the knee and wearing T-shirts.

The FOM isn't Sky Moby.

Sky commentators have absolutely openly criticised the drivers for not all taking the knee.

Rosco, when it comes to things F1, best you don't embarrass yourself by posting tosh.

Moby you're a complete nut case and if one of us is embarrassing ourselves with a lack of intelligence, it's 100% you.

You continue to misread, misunderstand and miscommunicate literally all of the discussion. You constantly bring completely unrelated material into a debate which suggests you're thick as shit, you're lost and grasping at straws or you're attempting to muddy the waters and deflect from your incompetence. Possibly all of the above.

You do it every time, on every subject and every forum. I cant believe that an old man like you can seriously be this argumentative with everyone and it has to be cognitive disorder that needs attended to, for your own sake.

I think its time for you to start playing with people of similar ability before you drown completely.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 09, 2020, 08:53:13 AM
Rosco, this is another one of your, "There's no such thing as a cool down room", moments.

1/ Sky take FOM feeds like the national anthem and the drivers wearing anti racism or BLM t-shirts.

2/ Hamilton moaned that the coverage  was cut short...Liberty fell over themselves to correct that and HAM was late on Sunday at Monza!

3/ IF you thought SKY'S reporting team were  / are 'too supportive' or 'lefty' suggests YOU are the problem and out of touch.

That is the 'danger of you getting 'validations on here... ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 09, 2020, 01:43:39 PM

"Do we know what the illness is? It is said to be transverse myelitis, although AstraZeneca has not confirmed that. That is inflammation of the sheath containing the nerves of the spinal cord. It can be treated by steroids to reduce the inflammation but the condition can be permanent."

The above is from the article below. If the illness is determined to create permanent harm to people, the vaccine may be scrapped. The good news is they are taking safety seriously.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/oxford-covid-vaccine-trial-suspension-what-happens-next/ar-BB18RiUU?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on September 10, 2020, 12:04:00 AM
Quote
We have seen increases in AFM cases in the U.S. every other year starting in 2014.
Most AFM cases (more than 90%) have been in young children.
You may hear AFM referred to as a “polio-like” condition, but all the stool specimens from AFM patients that we received tested negative for poliovirus. The cases of AFM since 2014 are not caused by poliovirus.

https://www.cdc.gov/acute-flaccid-myelitis/about-afm.html

We got another polio virus twin out there now.  Saw on TV report that discussed children with the disease which paralyzed one side of their body.  The virus attacks the spinal cord.  The corona virus has also attacked the spinal cord and brain.  At this rate, you will not need to worry about dementia because you will end up immobile.   :chuckle: (:) :scared0005:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: dcguyusa on September 10, 2020, 02:48:19 PM
Quote
“We are now seeing people three months after COVID who have pericarditis [inflammation of the sac around the heart] or myocarditis,” Samuel said. He said he believes a small fraction of coronavirus survivors are sustaining heart damage, “but when a disease is so widespread it is concerning that a tiny fraction is still sizable.”

“You don’t want people to be unduly alarmed, but on the other hand you don’t want individuals to be complacent about, ‘Oh, the mortality rate is so low with COVID-19, I don’t really care if I’m infected because the chances that it will immediately or in the next few weeks kill me is small enough, I don’t need to be concerned.’ There are other consequences.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/post-covid-heart-damage-alarms-researchers-there-was-a-black-hole-in-infected-cells-172015067.html

Goes after the nervous system, heart, and lungs.  That should cover all of the bases.   (:) :o :rolleye0009: :sick0012: :snivel: :bow: :evilgrin0002:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 11, 2020, 01:21:32 AM
Rosco, this is another one of your, "There's no such thing as a cool down room", moments.

1/ Sky take FOM feeds like the national anthem and the drivers wearing anti racism or BLM t-shirts.

2/ Hamilton moaned that the coverage  was cut short...Liberty fell over themselves to correct that and HAM was late on Sunday at Monza!

3/ IF you thought SKY'S reporting team were  / are 'too supportive' or 'lefty' suggests YOU are the problem and out of touch.

That is the 'danger of you getting 'validations on here... ?

Points 1 & 2 are both irrelevant to this conversation Moby, I’ve already made this clear to you. Why would you inject random material when debating something else? I’m assuming you’re just thick. We’re talking about Sky TV, the presenters and it’s leftist agenda. You’re bumbling on about feeds, Liberty & FOM for some bizarre reason??

It’s just a shame you’re not equipped to debate the points I made and instead you go off in tangents & attempt to discredit me in your natural English ramblings. You do this all the time & I’m convinced you have an intelligence deficit.

Do you get frustrated not being in a position to communicate with adults? It would explain your anger.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 11, 2020, 01:26:31 AM

Points 1 & 2 are both irrelevant to this conversation Moby, I’ve already made this clear to you. Why would you inject random material when debating something else? I’m assuming you’re just thick. We’re talking about Sky TV, the presenters and it’s leftist agenda. You’re bumbling on about feeds, Liberty & FOM for some bizarre reason??

It’s just a shame you’re not equipped to debate the points I made and instead you go off in tangents & attempt to discredit me in your natural English ramblings. You do this all the time & I’m convinced you have an intelligence deficit.

Do you get frustrated not being in a position to communicate with adults? It would explain your anger.

I'm not the 'frustrated' one, Rosco..

I'm not seeing leftist agendas in either Liberty' editorial or SKY's presenters ... 


You are communicating with an adult who knows a deal more about F1 than you ... do listen out for me in Sochi ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 11, 2020, 01:45:20 AM
This is the sort of Tatooed F'ck with that I thought Track and trace was suppose to stop being a potential spreader of the virus

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-tattooist-continues-ignore-nhs-4504957 (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-tattooist-continues-ignore-nhs-4504957)

What's the point in having 'Track and Trace' if it has no teeth and twats like this can mock well intentioned bodies to prevent the Virus' spread ?



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 11, 2020, 05:29:15 AM
That bloke should be forcibly tested. And billed for it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 11, 2020, 05:38:23 AM
That bloke should be forcibly tested. And billed for it.

Well, we agree, for a change  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 11, 2020, 06:56:30 AM
I'm not the 'frustrated' one, Rosco..

I'm not seeing leftist agendas in either Liberty' editorial or SKY's presenters ... 

You are communicating with an adult who knows a deal more about F1 than you ... do listen out for me in Sochi ;)

You cant see the liberal/progressive Sky agenda because your filters wont allow it and you're just too thick. You may watch F1 but like almost everything else in this world, you see it back to front, compared to everyone else.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 11, 2020, 09:49:06 AM

Last month, former Florida State basketball center Michael Ojo died from a heart attack in Serbia; Ojo had recovered from the coronavirus before he collapsed on the basketball court. An Ohio State University cardiologist found that between 10 and 13 percent of university athletes who had recovered from COVID-19 had myocarditis. When the Big Ten athletic conference announced the cancellation of its season last month, Commissioner Kevin Warren cited the risk of heart failure in athletes. Researchers have estimated that up to 20 percent of people who get the coronavirus sustain heart damage.


http://www.yahoo.com/news/post-covid-heart-damage-alarms-researchers-there-was-a-black-hole-in-infected-cells-172015067.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 11, 2020, 11:04:52 PM


Although China claims to have only 157 active COVID cases, they've injected hundreds of thousands of people with two experimental vaccines.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-injects-hundreds-of-thousands-with-experimental-covid-19-vaccines/ar-BB18W5Ta?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 12, 2020, 08:53:34 PM
  Meanwhile in Sweden, covid cases are extremely low when they are ramping up in most other countries

https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-last-10-days-sweden-has-averaged-1-death-per-day-from-covid-19?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR0H94hrXeR3KNObpw5RrgQgZYhCGt3Ou8NAMVGM6BV72oroedB2yaBpMfM

 Based on the number of deaths through September 10, the estimated deaths per million in Sweden would be 8,524, while neighboring countries such as Denmark would be estimated at 3,265 per million and Norway would be 2,174.

However, on Monday, thelocal.no reported that Sweden’s new case rates are better than Norway’s over the previous week: “Using the rate of infections per 100,000 residents during the last 7 days, Norway has registered 1.2 new cases of Covid-19 per day compared to 0.9 cases in Sweden, according to figures as of September 7th, according to newspaper VG’s count which is also based on figures from health authorities.” The outlet notes that, according to NRK, “Norway has not had a higher current rate of infection than Sweden since April 1st.”

Espen Nakstad, vice director of the Norwegian Directorate of Health, stated, “This is a clear sign that people in Sweden are doing a lot of things sensibly, maintaining social distance and using hygiene advice actively, and are careful about the spread of the virus.”


The Daily Mail added, “Denmark, which also imposed tight restrictions, has seen its infection rate rise higher than that witnessed in Sweden, despite initially seeming to have curbed the worst of the virus.”


  So much for Sweden's neighbors doing soooo much better than them in fighting covid. Looks like they did get it right, let it run it's course and go on with life without ruining their economy and everyone's lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 12, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
  Meanwhile in Sweden, covid cases are extremely low when they are ramping up in most other countries

https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-last-10-days-sweden-has-averaged-1-death-per-day-from-covid-19?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR0H94hrXeR3KNObpw5RrgQgZYhCGt3Ou8NAMVGM6BV72oroedB2yaBpMfM

 Based on the number of deaths through September 10, the estimated deaths per million in Sweden would be 8,524, while neighboring countries such as Denmark would be estimated at 3,265 per million and Norway would be 2,174.

However, on Monday, thelocal.no reported that Sweden’s new case rates are better than Norway’s over the previous week: “Using the rate of infections per 100,000 residents during the last 7 days, Norway has registered 1.2 new cases of Covid-19 per day compared to 0.9 cases in Sweden, according to figures as of September 7th, according to newspaper VG’s count which is also based on figures from health authorities.” The outlet notes that, according to NRK, “Norway has not had a higher current rate of infection than Sweden since April 1st.”

Espen Nakstad, vice director of the Norwegian Directorate of Health, stated, “This is a clear sign that people in Sweden are doing a lot of things sensibly, maintaining social distance and using hygiene advice actively, and are careful about the spread of the virus.”


The Daily Mail added, “Denmark, which also imposed tight restrictions, has seen its infection rate rise higher than that witnessed in Sweden, despite initially seeming to have curbed the worst of the virus.”


  So much for Sweden's neighbors doing soooo much better than them in fighting covid. Looks like they did get it right, let it run it's course and go on with life without ruining their economy and everyone's lives.



1/ Finland's economy fell just over 5 percent in Qtr 2 and Sweden's over 8 ..

2/ There's no 'herd immunity' given Stockholm's rate for anti bodies present is JUST over 10 percent

3/ Sweden managed to allow 10 times of it's citizens to die than Finland or Norway.


4/ There is an investigation into why 3 months of emails have 'disappeared' re 'hard immunity' being the goal of Sweden's govt..  ( example ) an email exchange from March between Sweden and Finland's top guys .. Naturally the Finnish end wasn't 'lost' ..


Two weeks ago, UK govt ministers were suggesting the UK was doing v.well v her neighbours re new cases ..  :coffeeread: 


Let's revisit this in a month.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on September 12, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
Why keep talking about old news. The Virus is likely to make a come back this winter. What we saw at the end of summer was an extension of the first wave. A real second wave likely to start because of schools and more people being together as weather cools off.  Public transportation and day care are likely to add to it. Some epidemiologist are saying the worse is yet to come.  The Chinese have started to use not completely tested vaccine in millions of people in an effort to curtail this. The USA CDC has said that if the virus get out of control too much they may consider doing the same thing here.  Mean while there is not enough vaccine to give to enough people to make a real different because it just has not been manufactured. Then all the paper work of keeping track of who got which vaccine and did they have a problem with it. This is only getting ready to be a mess that will probably take until next summer to completely work out.

One of the biggest problems is people are getting worn out and want to stop following the social distancing. That would make the wave worse but at the same time any type of social distancing will make the economy worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on September 12, 2020, 11:30:41 PM
Study it for 7 years. I suspect suicides and DV cases might also be higher in Denmark and Norway and their economies may take longer to recover as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 13, 2020, 12:07:41 AM
Why keep talking about old news. The Virus is likely to make a come back this winter. What we saw at the end of summer was an extension of the first wave. A real second wave likely to start because of schools and more people being together as weather cools off.  Public transportation and day care are likely to add to it. Some epidemiologist are saying the worse is yet to come.  The Chinese have started to use not completely tested vaccine in millions of people in an effort to curtail this. The USA CDC has said that if the virus get out of control too much they may consider doing the same thing here.  Mean while there is not enough vaccine to give to enough people to make a real different because it just has not been manufactured. Then all the paper work of keeping track of who got which vaccine and did they have a problem with it. This is only getting ready to be a mess that will probably take until next summer to completely work out.

One of the biggest problems is people are getting worn out and want to stop following the social distancing. That would make the wave worse but at the same time any type of social distancing will make the economy worse.

 How is talking about what is happening in Sweden right now old news? They are not shut down, schools are open, they are walking around with no masks and they have a very small amount of cases when all these countries that locked down are getting hit hard with second waves. Even we are. 

 We now know the fatality rate is very low, lets protect the vulnerable, let it run its course and go on with life already. Sweden is!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 13, 2020, 01:21:09 AM

 How is talking about what is happening in Sweden right now old news? They are not shut down, schools are open, they are walking around with no masks and they have a very small amount of cases when all these countries that locked down are getting hit hard with second waves. Even we are. 

 We now know the fatality rate is very low, lets protect the vulnerable, let it run its course and go on with life already. Sweden is!

Let's

Economy down over eight percent in Qtr 2 ( Finland) which locked down ( just over 5 percent)

Finland managed to save 10 times more lives ..

That's what happens when you read Beifart publications for 'news' like the 'local' ...




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 13, 2020, 04:35:08 AM
  Meanwhile in Sweden, covid cases are extremely low when they are ramping up in most other countries

https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-last-10-days-sweden-has-averaged-1-death-per-day-from-covid-19?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR0H94hrXeR3KNObpw5RrgQgZYhCGt3Ou8NAMVGM6BV72oroedB2yaBpMfM

 Based on the number of deaths through September 10, the estimated deaths per million in Sweden would be 8,524, while neighboring countries such as Denmark would be estimated at 3,265 per million and Norway would be 2,174.

However, on Monday, thelocal.no reported that Sweden’s new case rates are better than Norway’s over the previous week: “Using the rate of infections per 100,000 residents during the last 7 days, Norway has registered 1.2 new cases of Covid-19 per day compared to 0.9 cases in Sweden, according to figures as of September 7th, according to newspaper VG’s count which is also based on figures from health authorities.” The outlet notes that, according to NRK, “Norway has not had a higher current rate of infection than Sweden since April 1st.”

Espen Nakstad, vice director of the Norwegian Directorate of Health, stated, “This is a clear sign that people in Sweden are doing a lot of things sensibly, maintaining social distance and using hygiene advice actively, and are careful about the spread of the virus.”


The Daily Mail added, “Denmark, which also imposed tight restrictions, has seen its infection rate rise higher than that witnessed in Sweden, despite initially seeming to have curbed the worst of the virus.”


  So much for Sweden's neighbors doing soooo much better than them in fighting covid. Looks like they did get it right, let it run it's course and go on with life without ruining their economy and everyone's lives.

An interesting read.

I said a while back that this all needs to play out over a longer period of time before we can start drawing conclusions. Sadly the virus has turned political and there are people out there who can’t stomach the thought of Sweden coming out of this successfully.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 13, 2020, 03:06:25 PM
  Meanwhile in Sweden, covid cases are extremely low when they are ramping up in most other countries

https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-last-10-days-sweden-has-averaged-1-death-per-day-from-covid-19?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR0H94hrXeR3KNObpw5RrgQgZYhCGt3Ou8NAMVGM6BV72oroedB2yaBpMfM

 Based on the number of deaths through September 10, the estimated deaths per million in Sweden would be 8,524, while neighboring countries such as Denmark would be estimated at 3,265 per million and Norway would be 2,174.

However, on Monday, thelocal.no reported that Sweden’s new case rates are better than Norway’s over the previous week: “Using the rate of infections per 100,000 residents during the last 7 days, Norway has registered 1.2 new cases of Covid-19 per day compared to 0.9 cases in Sweden, according to figures as of September 7th, according to newspaper VG’s count which is also based on figures from health authorities.” The outlet notes that, according to NRK, “Norway has not had a higher current rate of infection than Sweden since April 1st.”

Espen Nakstad, vice director of the Norwegian Directorate of Health, stated, “This is a clear sign that people in Sweden are doing a lot of things sensibly, maintaining social distance and using hygiene advice actively, and are careful about the spread of the virus.”


The Daily Mail added, “Denmark, which also imposed tight restrictions, has seen its infection rate rise higher than that witnessed in Sweden, despite initially seeming to have curbed the worst of the virus.”


  So much for Sweden's neighbors doing soooo much better than them in fighting covid. Looks like they did get it right, let it run it's course and go on with life without ruining their economy and everyone's lives.

An interesting read.

I said a while back that this all needs to play out over a longer period of time before we can start drawing conclusions. Sadly the virus has turned political and there are people out there who can’t stomach the thought of Sweden coming out of this successfully.

 That's exactly it, even the professionals kept changing their stories.... first we don't need masks, now we do. Flights won't make a difference, then all the sudden they did. It's been a guessing game all along.

 France is reporting record high daily cases now, even more than when it first hit. Parts of the US just went through that, Florida, Texas, etc. Yet New York isn't seeing a surge now after they went through a massive infection rate earlier, just like Sweden coincidentally! All those months of lockdown seem to be for nothing, it still ran it's course eventually and we won't know the final numbers til its passed. Today the rest of the world is on edge but in Sweden life is going on pretty much normally, that is pretty telling. Yet you still see people trying to say they got it wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 13, 2020, 03:23:15 PM

 How is talking about what is happening in Sweden right now old news? They are not shut down, schools are open, they are walking around with no masks and they have a very small amount of cases when all these countries that locked down are getting hit hard with second waves. Even we are. 

 We now know the fatality rate is very low, lets protect the vulnerable, let it run its course and go on with life already. Sweden is!

Let's

Economy down over eight percent in Qtr 2 ( Finland) which locked down ( just over 5 percent)

Finland managed to save 10 times more lives ..

That's what happens when you read Beifart publications for 'news' like the 'local' ...

   And yet today Finland had 23 new cases, Sweden had none. Those stats are changing daily, and not for the better for Finland

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%22%20%5Cl%20%22countries

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 14, 2020, 05:48:20 AM
  Meanwhile in Sweden, covid cases are extremely low when they are ramping up in most other countries

https://www.dailywire.com/news/in-last-10-days-sweden-has-averaged-1-death-per-day-from-covid-19?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR0H94hrXeR3KNObpw5RrgQgZYhCGt3Ou8NAMVGM6BV72oroedB2yaBpMfM

 Based on the number of deaths through September 10, the estimated deaths per million in Sweden would be 8,524, while neighboring countries such as Denmark would be estimated at 3,265 per million and Norway would be 2,174.

However, on Monday, thelocal.no reported that Sweden’s new case rates are better than Norway’s over the previous week: “Using the rate of infections per 100,000 residents during the last 7 days, Norway has registered 1.2 new cases of Covid-19 per day compared to 0.9 cases in Sweden, according to figures as of September 7th, according to newspaper VG’s count which is also based on figures from health authorities.” The outlet notes that, according to NRK, “Norway has not had a higher current rate of infection than Sweden since April 1st.”

Espen Nakstad, vice director of the Norwegian Directorate of Health, stated, “This is a clear sign that people in Sweden are doing a lot of things sensibly, maintaining social distance and using hygiene advice actively, and are careful about the spread of the virus.”


The Daily Mail added, “Denmark, which also imposed tight restrictions, has seen its infection rate rise higher than that witnessed in Sweden, despite initially seeming to have curbed the worst of the virus.”


  So much for Sweden's neighbors doing soooo much better than them in fighting covid. Looks like they did get it right, let it run it's course and go on with life without ruining their economy and everyone's lives.

An interesting read.

I said a while back that this all needs to play out over a longer period of time before we can start drawing conclusions. Sadly the virus has turned political and there are people out there who can’t stomach the thought of Sweden coming out of this successfully.

 That's exactly it, even the professionals kept changing their stories.... first we don't need masks, now we do. Flights won't make a difference, then all the sudden they did. It's been a guessing game all along.

 France is reporting record high daily cases now, even more than when it first hit. Parts of the US just went through that, Florida, Texas, etc. Yet New York isn't seeing a surge now after they went through a massive infection rate earlier, just like Sweden coincidentally! All those months of lockdown seem to be for nothing, it still ran it's course eventually and we won't know the final numbers til its passed. Today the rest of the world is on edge but in Sweden life is going on pretty much normally, that is pretty telling. Yet you still see people trying to say they got it wrong.

Agreed.

People who applauded lockdowns and criticised others who chose a different strategy haven’t yet really grasped what a lockdown was. It’s essentially hiding in our houses, wrecking the economy, protecting the hospitals and changing life as we know it, without anything changing for the better outside our homes.

The same people who want a second lockdown are generally those earning from the state and don’t have the same element of financial risk as those who want to learn to live with the virus. It appears like a socialist/capitalist divide which makes the virus a political tool rather than simply a health and well being scenario.

It’s as though we were going to miraculously exit lockdown and covid would be gone. Yet here we are, the virus is still about, jobs are at risk, there’s no vaccine and there’s an excess death rate attributed to non covid related deaths. In the UK, more people died of suicide during August than they did from covid and guess what, almost nothing has changed since March in terms of protection. In fact we’re more exposed than ever but the numbers don’t back that up.

I do wonder if the virus ripped through those who were critically ill and extremely vulnerable, which cause the 3 month surge because around the world, bars, clubs, employment, public transport and social norms are more close to pre covid levels than ever before yet the death rate is tiny in most places, certainly the UK.

Governments have stopped talking about daily death rates because there are hardly any and instead they focus on tested positive numbers, as we test more people. I actually think this is a good thing because at this rate, the virus is less deadly than ever.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 14, 2020, 06:55:11 AM
I still think that the lockdown as practised in the UK was worthwhile. At that time we did not know what the hell was going on. As we now know, even though, at no point was the UK hospital system overwhelmed, lots of people died.

'Hiding in our homes' saved lives. Not so much from the infection, but in terms of enabling people who needed care to get the care they needed. That was the strategy, in the UK, from the earliest days. Objective clearly achieved.

Now, just a short while later and we know much more. In the UK, very few people are dying. That's partly down to improvements in knowledge and thus treatment and, in part, because many of the most vulnerable have already been moved off the game board. Many of the most vulnerable people still unaffected are still taking great steps to shield themselves and will continue to do so until they get fed up with it.

Now, we know that the virus can cause long-term health effects. At the outset, I was pretty blase about the effects and was not against the idea of contracting Covid-19 to get it out of the way. Now? I have a different opinion.

Now, in the UK at least, we have data that goes down to postcode level (in the UK that means just a few houses) which means that action can be taken on a hugely granular level. I doubt that there will ever be another full lockdown in the UK, or many other countries. We can see many changes to behaviour that each have a small, but cumulative effect. Relatively small additional measures enable a semblance of a normal life. When I was over there the other week, it was a pain in the arse registering my presence at restaurants. I hated wearing a mask, but there was nothing I wanted to do that I could not do - apart from going for a swim.

This will pass. It will not entirely disappear. but the progress isn't much different to previous pandemics. Perhaps the biggest issue I see is the politicisation of the virus, especially in the USA - that's a human tragedy in the making - but that's not the virus, that's the humans, some of whom are IMHO downright evil.




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 14, 2020, 08:25:05 AM
To be clear I’m not a naysayer of covid or the lockdown and I agree with large parts of your post Andrew. The lockdown bought us time to understand the reality of the situation and I’m sure there was a worse case scenario the government couldn’t afford to play out. It was like pulling the car over to read the map, it prevented us from getting more lost but it didn’t get us back on track whilst sat there.

I just think some people wrongly believe that the only option available is to hide at home until either a vaccine is introduced or it burns itself out. There are so many variables in play so it’s impossible to prove that one strategy is head and shoulders above all others and yes people will prefer a choice that better suits their situation.

The political manipulation isn’t exclusive to the US because the Tory’s have been battered by the liberals, the greens, labour and anyone who isn’t conservative. Things could have been handled better with hindsight but it’s pathetic the way the opposition have pretended it’s been mismanaged and that the government is responsible for killing people. What we do know is that the opposition are responsible for dividing and attempting to destroy the country more than anyone else.

If one hadn’t looked at facts, we would believe that the left wing media darling in all of this has handled it best, Nicola Sturgeon. The headlines continually praised her but quietly behind the scenes, Scotland’s figures attributed to deaths, deaths by country size, old folks homes, cover ups and R rates suggest it’s exactly the opposite. Yet the uneducated will blame Boris every day and twice on a Sunday.

At least Brexit will divide their attention for a little while.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on September 14, 2020, 08:46:49 AM
To be clear I’m not a naysayer of covid or the lockdown and I agree with large parts of your post Andrew. The lockdown bought us time to understand the reality of the situation and I’m sure there was a worse case scenario the government couldn’t afford to play out. It was like pulling the car over to read the map, it prevented us from getting more lost but it didn’t get us back on track whilst sat there.

I just think some people wrongly believe that the only option available is to hide at home until either a vaccine is introduced or it burns itself out. There are so many variables in play so it’s impossible to prove that one strategy is head and shoulders above all others and yes people will prefer a choice that better suits their situation.

The political manipulation isn’t exclusive to the US because the Tory’s have been battered by the liberals, the greens, labour and anyone who isn’t conservative. Things could have been handled better with hindsight but it’s pathetic the way the opposition have pretended it’s been mismanaged and that the government is responsible for killing people. What we do know is that the opposition are responsible for dividing and attempting to destroy the country more than anyone else.

If one hadn’t looked at facts, we would believe that the left wing media darling in all of this has handled it best, Nicola Sturgeon. The headlines continually praised her but quietly behind the scenes, Scotland’s figures attributed to deaths, deaths by country size, old folks homes, cover ups and R rates suggest it’s exactly the opposite. Yet the uneducated will blame Boris every day and twice on a Sunday.

At least Brexit will divide their attention for a little while.
That’s a great post Rosco, and Andrews too.
I largely agree with your comments.

Complete lockdowns can’t be the answer. This virus is going to be around in some shape or form for keeps. The genie is out of the bottle and it can’t be capped.

There is no sign of an imminent vaccine that can be rolled out.
The Oxford vaccine had its trials stopped a few days ago and even if a vaccine was successfully produced the long term effects of any vaccine are an unknown and will be for times to come, decades even, until enough data is available.

As Andrew mentioned the other effects of Covid are now becoming known and as more data rolls in, the better will be the prognosis for affected demographics and diagnosis/ treatment.
Locking the population down is deferring a solution and at a great cost, not just for individual economies but scale that up on a global level and the likely effects of a Covid induced economic meltdown are pretty alarming and an unknown although one can make an educated guess of likely outcomes.

Schools only opened up a few days ago and already there are positive cases in the student community.
Should the schools shut again? If so for how long and will they keep closing each time Covid cases are found? What of the knock on effects on working families and so on...?

One can extrapolate that to other sectors.

No easy answers here but a full on lockdown isn’t one of them.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 14, 2020, 09:39:34 AM
The Astra Zeneca trials are back on again. What happened was a normal part of the process. Those guys watch the trial participant's health like hawks and absolutely need to be as certain as they can possibly be that what they saw was not down to the product under test.

For sure the thing is politicised in the UK - but it is on a different order of magnitude to what is happening in the Home of the Brave. It seems from here that US society is breaking down and Covid-19 is only a part of that process.

Over here, Covid-19 is part of life. A recent visitor from Switzerland was rather aghast at the manner in which we are coping. I was much the same, from a different perspective when I went to the UK. As I wrote before, and as Billykins seems keen to remind himself, I wrote that the virus would pass away in a few months, and it will. Just as the virus that caused Spanish Flu hung around for a few months causing big problems but never went away. It still pops up from time to time, it just becomes part of the noise, part of what we live with.

For sure though, things will never be just as they were before the virus - some changes will be good and some will be bad, but life will go on and humans have short memories!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 14, 2020, 09:48:20 AM
Locking the population down is deferring a solution and at a great cost, not just for individual economies but scale that up on a global level and the likely effects of a Covid induced economic meltdown are pretty alarming and an unknown although one can make an educated guess of likely outcomes.

And we have to ask ourselves, who wins from that or at least who supports it fanatically?

Anti capitalists, socialists, communists, eco warriors, extinction rebellion, Greta Thuneburg worshipers and the unwashed. Many middle class supporters can be found on Facebook comments sections with ridiculous profile pictures including EU stars, I love Labour and the world has no borders slogans.

Back to politics again unfortunately.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 14, 2020, 10:10:52 AM
There's millions of people in the UK who might consider themselves better off in one way or another as a result of government support during the lock-down.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. That's not politics, that's self interest! Of course politicians who want to harness votes will want to maximise the effects.

I think that the situation in the United States is fundamentally different to what is going on in the UK and other countries in Europe.

Also, there are millions of people who are scared shitless about getting the virus. I am on a forum for the area that I live in when in Spain. The pages are full of posts from the scared old criticising anything they see as not conforming to the current regulations and wittering to each other about what to do about it.

There's also an element of envy - when only certain groups of people were allowed to work there were a multitude of posts asking whether such and such a group of people were allowed to work because they'd just seen somebody they suspected of being out and about who should have been locked up.

Fear, envy and greed are potent motivators of discontent.

Many governments have made it clear that there will be no repetition of the lockdowns were experienced earlier in the year. Earlier in the year it was possible to make calculations that the net cost of lockdown was lower than the cost of the virus on human life in terms of deaths and shortened healthy life expectancy.

I read a paper that discussed this very topic. This estimate will have been part of the planning of every government - and different in every country! Now, the cost/benefit ratio has shifted so that, in many countries, the determination has been reached that a repeat of full lockdown is not worthwhile and, yes, some people will die.





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on September 14, 2020, 11:33:28 AM
Think about the effects on the economies of large developing countries of the first lockdown.
We are talking about job losses in the 100s of millions and contractions to economies in some cases of over 20%.
People in these countries have no safety social welfare net, no savings to fall back on, no possessions of worth they can sell to tide them over.

Lockdown for them has had very real, immediate consequences.
If they are not economically active they and their families starve.
In the new normal 10s of millions of jobs have been lost.
The jobs those people had no longer exist.

The potential for social unrest on a vast scale is very real and that will inevitably make its way to our shores as people vote with their feet and disperse to countries with better options for survival.

The next big migration wave is a very real possibility and it’s already started.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 14, 2020, 04:55:44 PM
My sons school has a case of coronavirus. The school has excluded the entire year group. Previous to that they have been staggering all interactions so that year groups do not coincide.

My daughters school also has a case, and one family case of a pupil. There again, another form group has been excluded to learn remotely on their chrome books.

Both schools are doing very well at separating forms and year groups from each other and staggering contact in general areas. There are all kinds of regimes in place so that different year groups do not contact each other and they are staggered during lunch breaks etc.

We are not terribly concerned. Both schools seem to have good practices in place.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on September 14, 2020, 10:28:46 PM
New Coronavirus cases reaches new daily record.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-cases-hit-record-one-day-increase-as-who-releases-scathing-report-on-response-and-lack-of-prevention/ar-BB192lBE?ocid=U218DHP
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: msmoby on September 15, 2020, 01:11:03 AM
Think about the effects on the economies of large developing countries of the first lockdown.
We are talking about job losses in the 100s of millions and contractions to economies in some cases of over 20%.
People in these countries have no safety social welfare net, no savings to fall back on, no possessions of worth they can sell to tide them over.

Lockdown for them has had very real, immediate consequences.
If they are not economically active they and their families starve.
In the new normal 10s of millions of jobs have been lost.
The jobs those people had no longer exist.

The potential for social unrest on a vast scale is very real and that will inevitably make its way to our shores as people vote with their feet and disperse to countries with better options for survival.

The next big migration wave is a very real possibility and it’s already started.


 :laugh:

Now DS makes 'immigrants are a danger of Corona'


WHY would folks already in Europe be a great risk - other than their situation making it easier to spread ?


Sweden didn't lockdown,,,  it's Q2 economy suffered WORSE than Finland's - which did - and 10 times less people ( proportionally ) died in Finland ..


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on September 15, 2020, 05:35:21 AM
What has been achieved by the lock down is the number of deaths per infection is much lower. Not only in the USA but also all across Europe. The second wave in the USA was much larger than the first but with less deaths. The chart I am showing show that virus is making a comeback in Europe especially Spain and France.  Both countries now have a higher infection rate than the USA. You will also note that Uk infection rate though still low is climbing.

I do not have any children in school but I can see there are difference. The children are never out to play. There is never any groups of children out side the school. More parents are bringing the children to school rather than using the school bus.

Right now colleges seem to be having the most problems. It seems college students want to get together and socialize when not in class. It causing a huge problem. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 15, 2020, 05:52:45 AM
:laugh:

Sweden didn't lockdown,,,  it's Q2 economy suffered WORSE than Finland's - which did - and 10 times less people ( proportionally ) died in Finland ..

Very simplistic of you Moby. We've already discussed how the economies of the 2 countries are very different. Here, do some reading

https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/finland.sweden/economy

It's also key to note that Sweden's economy grew in Q1 and their expected Q3/4 and 21/22 growth rates are much better than their neighbours and any others in the EU. Sweden has a net benefit here but you continue to dance around their Q2 economy comparison which is literally buttons.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/29/coronavirus-swedens-gdp-actually-grew-in-the-first-quarter.html

I'll let someone else explain this to you;

:laugh:

Now DS makes 'immigrants are a danger of Corona'

WHY would folks already in Europe be a great risk - other than their situation making it easier to spread ?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on September 15, 2020, 07:51:26 AM
Think about the effects on the economies of large developing countries of the first lockdown.
We are talking about job losses in the 100s of millions and contractions to economies in some cases of over 20%.
People in these countries have no safety social welfare net, no savings to fall back on, no possessions of worth they can sell to tide them over.

Lockdown for them has had very real, immediate consequences.
If they are not economically active they and their families starve.
In the new normal 10s of millions of jobs have been lost.
The jobs those people had no longer exist.

The potential for social unrest on a vast scale is very real and that will inevitably make its way to our shores as people vote with their feet and disperse to countries with better options for survival.

The next big migration wave is a very real possibility and it’s already started.


 :laugh:

Now DS makes 'immigrants are a danger of Corona'


WHY would folks already in Europe be a great risk - other than their situation making it easier to spread ?


Sweden didn't lockdown,,,  it's Q2 economy suffered WORSE than Finland's - which did - and 10 times less people ( proportionally ) died in Finland ..
Are you brains more addled than normal, or is your Natural English at odds with what normal folk converse in?

Go back, read my post again and come back with a ‘riposte’ relevant to my post.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 15, 2020, 06:28:54 PM
 So India is reporting an insane amount of Covid cases right now. Yesterday they logged over 83,000 cases in a day, first time under 100,000 in days. They can very well take over the US in total amount of cases within a couple weeks.

https://www.660citynews.com/2020/09/14/the-latest-india-reports-lowest-coronavirus-jump-in-a-week/

 Yet their death rate is way lower than that of the US. 80,776 deaths in 4.93 million cases vs 195,000 deaths in 6.6 million cases. Standard treatment for covid in India is HCQ, in the US it isn't. Sorry, but you can't tell me that's a coincidence!

 More info on studies using HCQ...

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/08/countries-that-use-hydroxychloroquine-may-have-80-lower-covid-death-rates/

 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on September 15, 2020, 08:18:36 PM
So India is reporting an insane amount of Covid cases right now. Yesterday they logged over 83,000 cases in a day, first time under 100,000 in days. They can very well take over the US in total amount of cases within a couple weeks.

https://www.660citynews.com/2020/09/14/the-latest-india-reports-lowest-coronavirus-jump-in-a-week/

 Yet their death rate is way lower than that of the US. 80,776 deaths in 4.93 million cases vs 195,000 deaths in 6.6 million cases. Standard treatment for covid in India is HCQ, in the US it isn't. Sorry, but you can't tell me that's a coincidence!

 More info on studies using HCQ...

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/08/countries-that-use-hydroxychloroquine-may-have-80-lower-covid-death-rates/

Whether HCQ is a factor is hard to quantify. There are conflicting studies and trials.

From my perspective I think the most important number is confirmed new infections. From this number a percentage will be hospitalized. And from those under medical care another percentage will move onto another realm. The movers percentage has been declining. Personally I doubt to HCQ. I recognize other posters disagree with the above. They are just percentages.

Medical regimes have improved as doctors have shared approaches and treatment. This is what has lowered the fatality percentage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on September 15, 2020, 09:44:04 PM
So India is reporting an insane amount of Covid cases right now. Yesterday they logged over 83,000 cases in a day, first time under 100,000 in days. They can very well take over the US in total amount of cases within a couple weeks.

https://www.660citynews.com/2020/09/14/the-latest-india-reports-lowest-coronavirus-jump-in-a-week/

 Yet their death rate is way lower than that of the US. 80,776 deaths in 4.93 million cases vs 195,000 deaths in 6.6 million cases. Standard treatment for covid in India is HCQ, in the US it isn't. Sorry, but you can't tell me that's a coincidence!

 More info on studies using HCQ...

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/08/countries-that-use-hydroxychloroquine-may-have-80-lower-covid-death-rates/
In the US people’s immune systems are probably more compromised.
In places like India, dirt and disease are rampant so it may be that immune systems are more able to fight off Covid resulting in milder infections and less death.
I read a more detailed article about this. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 15, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
Russia's excess deaths outstrip the Covid toll by 3 to 1.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-excess-deaths-over-summer-142518552.html

Here's a chart for America's death per week for the last three years. If it's over the yellow line, it's excess deaths.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard

Years from now when historians calculate the World's death toll from COVID, they will not trust the numbers nations report. They will use the amount of excess deaths over expected deaths if Covid never existed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on September 17, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Russia uses a different method of counting deaths than we use in the west so the numbers do not mean anything in a comparison. In Russia if a person is fat and dies from covert-19 he died from obesity related causes. We are just about as crazy in the other direction.

Meanwhile UK infections continue to rise. Northern England seem to becoming the new hot spot.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/17/coronavirus-major-incident-declared-north-yorkshire/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr&ICID=cus1579-adobe-vs-liftigniter-rec_news_control-liftigniter
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 18, 2020, 05:40:17 AM
I know a bloke who has market stalls in Scarborough, Harrogate and other places in North Yorkshire. He said people up there have no regard for social distancing, never have since it started, and the Muslims are worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 18, 2020, 07:03:08 AM
I know a bloke who has market stalls in Scarborough, Harrogate and other places in North Yorkshire. He said people up there have no regard for social distancing, never have since it started, and the Muslims are worse.

 We're having the same problem here. With the fast rising amount of new cases Ontario just announced strict fines for people throwing parties and the party goers who attend them.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid-statistics-september-17-1.5727727

The premier said the province is also instituting a minimum fine of $10,000 for the organizers of illegal social gatherings, as well as a $750 fine for people who show up to them.

"We will throw the book at you if you break the rules," Ford said.

"They must be a few fries short of a happy meal, these people."


 I liked his Happy Meal reference   :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 18, 2020, 07:35:14 AM
Back before the UK went to lockdown Boris The Great told the British people that it was understood that the population would only go along with restrictions upon their freedoms for a limited amount of time. That if things went on too long then compliance would falter and fail. Of course, he was right!

At the time, it was estimated that compliance with lockdown restrictions in the UK would be around 75%- or that was set as the level required for effectiveness. I can't remember which now. In any event, compliance was much higher than expected. Now 7 months later and compliance fatigue has well and truly set in. Now people will be less willing to comply out of social duty and consideration of others. Now enforcement will become more important - fines and other sanctions will be increasingly needed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on September 21, 2020, 08:12:54 PM
 More doctors coming out and saying we are being conned by big pharma... and masks are not good for you!

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/1000-doctors-come-out-against-covid/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on September 21, 2020, 10:58:55 PM
More doctors coming out and saying we are being conned by big pharma... and masks are not good for you!

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/1000-doctors-come-out-against-covid/

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 21, 2020, 11:46:01 PM

Chinese billionaire who criticized the Chinese President for his handling of the coronavirus disappeared in March. He is found guilty and will be sentenced to 18 years in prison. The Chinese court is one of the best in the world with a 99% conviction success rate.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ren-zhiqiang-chinese-tycoon-who-criticized-xi-jinpings-handling-of-coronavirus-jailed-for-18-years/ar-BB19hzdK?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on September 22, 2020, 02:18:25 AM
Just a word on hydroxychloroqiune since the douche has been banned and I don't have to read his ad nauseam takes/arguments.

They have been using hydroxychloroquine is Russia since last February. I mentioned back then that you could get 1 tablet here in Moscow for about 16 cents, and it has shown to be effective if taken in the early stages of there disease. If you don't believe it, don't take it, simple really.

There are little, or very small margins in most pharmaceuticals given all the money that goes into R&D, marketing, etc., except for, ta da, vaccines, which are hugely profitable. Of course big Pharma is manipulating the narrative. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 22, 2020, 05:18:42 AM
Billy, when you comment on the Chinese criminal court system it's worth knowing some context. For example, you probably don't know much about the system in your adopted homeland.

In the United States, fewer than 1% of federal criminal cases go to trial and result in an acquittal! Those do not get to court are due to guilty pleas.

Quote
Put another way, only 320 of 79,704 total federal defendants – fewer than 1% – went to trial and won their cases, at least in the form of an acquittal, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/11/only-2-of-federal-criminal-defendants-go-to-trial-and-most-who-do-are-found-guilty/

Wow, China and the USA are about the same. Spooky huh?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 22, 2020, 12:17:43 PM
Well today we’ve just found out how the government will impose a raft of new coronavirus restrictions with the UK having seemingly reached a ‘perilous turning point’.

In Scotland our delightful leader criticised the UK government for a lack of action, then waited 24 hours before announcing her Boris +24 with a bit of Scottishness to please the socialist nationalists.

I’m no longer allowed to visit my parents at home but I can go to the pub every day with hoards of strangers until 10pm. I get the impression people are becoming not only less observant of the Covid laws but also less convinced about the threat.

Many folks I’ve spoken with or having read their social media posts, have moved on from a stay at home and save lives stance to let’s just get on with it and learn to live with the virus. People seem to be accepting the risk now.

I just hope business doesn’t go backwards because it’s all feeling rather buoyant at the moment, from my POV.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 22, 2020, 04:25:48 PM
I’m no longer allowed to visit my parents at home but I can go to the pub every day with hoards of strangers until 10pm.

Is the 'rule of six' not a thing in Scotland?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on September 22, 2020, 08:41:39 PM
Billy, when you comment on the Chinese criminal court system it's worth knowing some context. For example, you probably don't know much about the system in your adopted homeland.

In the United States, fewer than 1% of federal criminal cases go to trial and result in an acquittal! Those do not get to court are due to guilty pleas.

Quote
Put another way, only 320 of 79,704 total federal defendants – fewer than 1% – went to trial and won their cases, at least in the form of an acquittal, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/11/only-2-of-federal-criminal-defendants-go-to-trial-and-most-who-do-are-found-guilty/

Wow, China and the USA are about the same. Spooky huh?

Yea here if the case is not over whelming strong it never goes to trail. In China they jail the lawyer who resent anybody they do not like. Very different. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 22, 2020, 08:55:09 PM
Billy, when you comment on the Chinese criminal court system it's worth knowing some context. For example, you probably don't know much about the system in your adopted homeland.

In the United States, fewer than 1% of federal criminal cases go to trial and result in an acquittal! Those do not get to court are due to guilty pleas.

Quote
Put another way, only 320 of 79,704 total federal defendants – fewer than 1% – went to trial and won their cases, at least in the form of an acquittal, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/11/only-2-of-federal-criminal-defendants-go-to-trial-and-most-who-do-are-found-guilty/

Wow, China and the USA are about the same. Spooky huh?

The first paragraph in your link said 8% of the cases get dismissed 2% go to trial and 90% plead guilty probably to get a lesser punishment so, NO, the American court system is not the same as China's because they do not convict 99% of the people they go after.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on September 22, 2020, 08:56:18 PM
Texan,

Resent or represent?

Yes they are very different and spell check is your friend.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 23, 2020, 01:50:51 AM
Billykins, the reading is tough there isn't it. Please note that for your convenience I quoted directly from the article with the specific intent of helping you with clarity.

Let's, make it simple for you by asking you a question or two.
Not every case is proceeded with, you do know that, right?
The numbers referred to the ones that did proceed. Do you think that every criminal case in China proceeds to a conclusion of guilty or not guilty?

I am not going to get involved in a pissing contest with a bloke who needs a Male Pampers

I was making a simple point of comparison. Your failed attempt to split hairs does not invalidate the comparison. Your ignorant attempt to challenge the comparison is rather telling.

Assuming you're right the difference between China and the Land Of The Free, the country with the largest prison population and highest incarceration rate in the world, would be about 7%. Is that something you can feel proud about? Does that make you feel like a winner?

If you're gonna pick a hill to die on Billykins, make it something that you know about.
Die for a cause!
Be an informed martyr!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 23, 2020, 02:40:06 AM
I’m no longer allowed to visit my parents at home but I can go to the pub every day with hoards of strangers until 10pm.

Is the 'rule of six' not a thing in Scotland?

From Friday, people in Scotland can no longer visit other households indoors. They can sit in groups of 6 outside though.

Trades people can still enter your home, you can sit in pubs and restaurants until 10pm but need to wear a mask when moving around. All public transport and shops still require face coverings too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53166816
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 23, 2020, 07:58:14 AM
Ah, so if you visit your parents you can pretend to be the plumber, or invite them to the pub instead? 

All a bit daft really.

Yesterdays death rate was 28 (https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/). Of those, if accurate, many will be old and infirm and/or have died from other causes while having it.

Compared with an average of 5 people a day dying on the roads, it doesnt seem that high.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 23, 2020, 08:58:50 AM
Ah, so if you visit your parents you can pretend to be the plumber, or invite them to the pub instead? 

All a bit daft really.

Yesterdays death rate was 28 (https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/). Of those, if accurate, many will be old and infirm and/or have died from other causes while having it.

Compared with an average of 5 people a day dying on the roads, it doesnt seem that high.

If I pay my mum to clean my house she’s allowed to come round and visit.  :-X
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 23, 2020, 09:08:38 AM
Assuming you're right the difference between China and the Land Of The Free, the country with the largest prison population and highest incarceration rate in the world, would be about 7%. Is that something you can feel proud about? Does that make you feel like a winner?


Assuming I'm right? You admitting not knowing if I'm right or wrong yet you write posts as if you know it all. Go figure. I knew a guy from the UK living in America. He was amazed stores like Walmart put goods out on the sidewalk outside their store and left them unattended. He said if that happened where he lived back home, things would be stolen. Maybe your nation needs to arrest a few more people like we do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on September 23, 2020, 12:57:26 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/22/sex-no-longer-illegal-non-cohabiting-couples-coronavirus-britain/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on September 23, 2020, 01:03:41 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/23/minister-says-second-lockdown-could-follow-if-new-restrictions-dont-work/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on September 23, 2020, 03:24:51 PM
I knew a guy from the UK living in America. He was amazed stores like Walmart put goods out on the sidewalk outside their store and left them unattended. He said if that happened where he lived back home, things would be stolen. Maybe your nation needs to arrest a few more people like we do.

Nonsense. Have you ever been to England, Billy?

Many supermarkets here have stuff outside at the entrance, as do petrol stations. Stuff like plants, barbecue charcoal, logs, flowers, special offers, etc.

For smaller shops, its a tradition.

[attachimg=1]

Where I live you can go buy eggs, sausages, logs and other stuff from the local farm and leave the money in a box if nobody is there. Its called a trust box.

Maybe your pal came from a rough area.

We do have the advantage of being unlikely to be shot or killed by the police over here though. Yet we lock fewer people up. We have had a few thousand years more practice being a country though. Perhaps we learned some stuff in that time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on September 23, 2020, 05:50:40 PM
I knew a guy from the UK living in America. He was amazed stores like Walmart put goods out on the sidewalk outside their store and left them unattended. He said if that happened where he lived back home, things would be stolen. Maybe your nation needs to arrest a few more people like we do.

Nonsense. Have you ever been to England, Billy?

Many supermarkets here have stuff outside at the entrance, as do petrol stations. Stuff like plants, barbecue charcoal, logs, flowers, special offers, etc.

For smaller shops, its a tradition.

(Attachment Link)

Where I live you can go buy eggs, sausages, logs and other stuff from the local farm and leave the money in a box if nobody is there. Its called a trust box.

Maybe your pal came from a rough area.

We do have the advantage of being unlikely to be shot or killed by the police over here though. Yet we lock fewer people up. We have had a few thousand years more practice being a country though. Perhaps we learned some stuff in that time.

I've passed through Heathrow a number of times but never actually visited. The UK bloke living in America may have been from a rough neighborhood. People don't like to talk about it but we have a lot of crime from Hispanics and Blacks. But the violent crime rate from those ethnic groups living in America are almost the same as their brothers living in Africa, Central and South America. It's in the genes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on September 24, 2020, 01:46:04 AM
The CDC has recently come out with its survival rates.

Gov. DeSantis of Florida has taken a lot of heat from the MSM about his policies regarding the lockdown. Here's a recent tweet from him.

Ron DeSantis
@GovRonDeSantis

13h
CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.
cdc.gov
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on September 24, 2020, 02:10:06 AM
I just finished talking to my scientist/virologist friend here in Moscow about 20 minutes ago. "There are still a lot of questions that need to be answered about this virus" was the main thing I took from our conversation.

He also said that everyone who works in his company was tested for the virus (hundreds of employees) One thing that he told me that I found interesting was that they found a few cases of pneumonia in some asymptomatic people. IOW, these people had no idea they had the virus, much less pneumonia.

Symptoms of pneumonia are quite noticeable, even "walking pneumonia", but in these cases the person had no idea until tested. Strange indeed, and yet a bit disconcerting.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 24, 2020, 03:02:14 AM
The CDC has recently come out with its survival rates.

Gov. DeSantis of Florida has taken a lot of heat from the MSM about his policies regarding the lockdown. Here's a recent tweet from him.

Ron DeSantis
@GovRonDeSantis

13h
CDC recently updated estimated infection fatality rates for COVID. Here are the updated survival rates by age group:

0-19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.
cdc.gov

Pretty damning statistics for those who are advocating lockdowns and destroying the economy. If I'm reading it correct, this is the survival rates of those who have caught Covid? Throw in the millions of have caught it without symptoms or those who have experienced mild symptoms and the picture evolves again. I pulled out this sort of landscape regarding Sweden but some folks simply cant bare it to be true, for whatever reason.

I'm starting to think its been over played. Our Prime Minister spoke this week ahead of new restrictions and his language was telling. He basically said that a slight cough for the many could be lethal for the vulnerable and that they don't think its fair to simply lock up the vulnerable. Instead we all have to suffer.

I'll be interested to see how we look back on this episode in 10 years time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 24, 2020, 03:06:26 AM
I just finished talking to my scientist/virologist friend here in Moscow about 20 minutes ago. "There are still a lot of questions that need to be answered about this virus" was the main thing I took from our conversation.

He also said that everyone who works in his company was tested for the virus (hundreds of employees) One thing that he told me that I found interesting was that they found a few cases of pneumonia in some asymptomatic people. IOW, these people had no idea they had the virus, much less pneumonia.

Symptoms of pneumonia are quite noticeable, even "walking pneumonia", but in these cases the person had no idea until tested. Strange indeed, and yet a bit disconcerting.

Again very interesting. We're now getting scary numbers thrown at us by the press regarding infection rates etc, many people automatically assume that these people are or will become gravely ill. Lot's of people are already walking around with a number of different infections of all kinds, completely unaware.

If we all had the opportunity to get a full test for everything, I'm sure we'd be quite shocked as to how many of us are carrying something.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 24, 2020, 06:54:53 AM
Rosco, and others. OK, let's end this right now. No more restrictions, bugger the masks, no need for vaccines and other treatments.

So, your mum gets it and she dies, are you OK with that - given that it is preventable and there's lots of people carrying and infecting other people?

How many people do YOU want to be responsible for? What's your share of the burden?

But it is worse than that. Say you get it and as a result your lungs are buggered?
No more tennis - that's OK?
You can find space for the stairlift because you can't manage the stairs?
How about the stroke caused by uncharacteristic blood clotting.
Are you up for 50 years of dribbling and slobbering; being spoon fed by a carer who doesn't care because your wife fvcked off five years after the stroke - she needed a life and didn't sign up for that.

I am not even saying that we should not say bugger off and die and let the chips fall where they may.
But, this virus does have an economic cost in terms of productive healthy years of life lost. Actuaries are, and have, done the numbers. The numbers are being refined by experience of Covid-19. Right now, the numbers fall on the side of taking steps to mitigate the effects of the virus. It is cheaper to do what is being done than to do nothing.

Worse yet, if we do nothing then the numbers of people who die or have shortened healthy lives will go up. It isn't just the dying, its the inability be economically productive, its the additional lifetime costs of care.

And, of course, do you want to be the Prime Minister or President who says 'nah! buggerit! lettem die!' Unless you can stand up in front of tens of millions of people and with perfect equanimity and clear conscience, 'fuvk off and die!' then don't expect anyone else to do so.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on September 24, 2020, 01:53:14 PM
They say Trump has already done just that!  :ROFL:

I mean, not quite, not really. But the media certainly implies it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Jerash on September 24, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Well, of all the things I didn't expect, Fifi being bedwetter of the year and Danchik having returned to the forum certainly top my list!  Hope you're all doing well!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on September 24, 2020, 05:15:51 PM
lots of good points above, but lets look at reality.
this is a serious virus, agreed. those who need to should take greater steps to protect themselves.

Quick example, I am allergic to bees, yet our city is encouraging people to do more to
help the bee population, no one is worried about those who are allergic.
Do you feel guilty when someone you know has a distance relative die? NO.
We truley only worry about those we are close to and offer empathy to those we know,
but you won't miss a bite of your sandwich if my mother dies regardless of how.

That was one quick example, heres another, more die from car accidents each year.
logic says ban cars, everone takes buses or bicycles. We save lives, we improve enviorment.
I could go on but you get the point.

This next part is cold, so read at own risk. Number one golbal problem in the world? Population.
By the way we currently could feed the world now ( we don't ) but we could.
At rate of population growth, in  10 years we won't be able to even if we want to.

Gets colder, 95% of people who die from this are the weakest and sickest in society.
so it helps  country free up resourses and monies for those who have oddds of
surviving.

suicide is up 40% in this country, Mental health in youth up 400%
wife and child abuse up 30% none of these get 1 minutes air time a week.
WHat this will do collectively to our economy's will increase taxes, which will increase
all of the above. So death by virus or from the biproduct of it?

I say implement protocals that make sense and start to open it up,
those who are in fear have to make choices as each of us do when we have issues.
Ask the governemnt to protect you is asking them to control you, careful where that leads us.
 
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on September 24, 2020, 08:37:29 PM
I knew a guy from the UK living in America. He was amazed stores like Walmart put goods out on the sidewalk outside their store and left them unattended. He said if that happened where he lived back home, things would be stolen. Maybe your nation needs to arrest a few more people like we do.

Nonsense. Have you ever been to England, Billy?

Many supermarkets here have stuff outside at the entrance, as do petrol stations. Stuff like plants, barbecue charcoal, logs, flowers, special offers, etc.

For smaller shops, its a tradition.

(Attachment Link)

Where I live you can go buy eggs, sausages, logs and other stuff from the local farm and leave the money in a box if nobody is there. Its called a trust box.

Maybe your pal came from a rough area.

We do have the advantage of being unlikely to be shot or killed by the police over here though. Yet we lock fewer people up. We have had a few thousand years more practice being a country though. Perhaps we learned some stuff in that time.

Sorry Billy, in both New England and England (part of the UK) one can do as Manny indicates. It is a commodity or courtesy perhaps rarer today, but it is called trust.

If we saw something outside the local hardware store we would ask about it and decide if we would take it and have it loaded in our vehicle if we wanted it. Please note I tend to avoid Walmart's and Home Depot's. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on September 25, 2020, 04:52:57 AM
Rosco, and others. OK, let's end this right now. No more restrictions, bugger the masks, no need for vaccines and other treatments.

So, your mum gets it and she dies, are you OK with that - given that it is preventable and there's lots of people carrying and infecting other people?

How many people do YOU want to be responsible for? What's your share of the burden?

But it is worse than that. Say you get it and as a result your lungs are buggered?
No more tennis - that's OK?
You can find space for the stairlift because you can't manage the stairs?
How about the stroke caused by uncharacteristic blood clotting.
Are you up for 50 years of dribbling and slobbering; being spoon fed by a carer who doesn't care because your wife fvcked off five years after the stroke - she needed a life and didn't sign up for that.

I am not even saying that we should not say bugger off and die and let the chips fall where they may.
But, this virus does have an economic cost in terms of productive healthy years of life lost. Actuaries are, and have, done the numbers. The numbers are being refined by experience of Covid-19. Right now, the numbers fall on the side of taking steps to mitigate the effects of the virus. It is cheaper to do what is being done than to do nothing.

Worse yet, if we do nothing then the numbers of people who die or have shortened healthy lives will go up. It isn't just the dying, its the inability be economically productive, its the additional lifetime costs of care.

And, of course, do you want to be the Prime Minister or President who says 'nah! buggerit! lettem die!' Unless you can stand up in front of tens of millions of people and with perfect equanimity and clear conscience, 'fuvk off and die!' then don't expect anyone else to do so.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that we all go out without masks, instigate close contact with randoms and share bottles of beer with strangers. I fully support social distancing, people standing inside my personal space and spitting on me as they talk, has always been a pet hate along with folks not washing their hands etc. And if we have a vaccine that works as we do for the flu then yes, bring it on.

What I'm suggesting is that we don't forcibly install disproportionate measures for all and bring down an economy which in turn, probably brings about greater harm. You gave an example of my wife caring for me etc. but I wouldn't fly planes or drive bikes if I wanted to eliminate all kinds of risk. I could wrap myself round a lamppost next week and become vegetablised but it's a risk I deem acceptable.

It's not about being ignorant, it's about being realistic and living with an acceptable risk. Would I walk it into my mum and dad's? No, not knowingly at least. I would and I have however been seeing them regularly albeit socially distanced and intentionally not sharing food, embracing or sitting in their home using their facilities. It's like family visit Lite but we deem it an acceptable risk to stay in contact.

Lockdowns and the closing of business I cant agree with but changing our habits I fully support. One of my best mates just came off a ventilator last week having contracted meningitis, a scary time for all involved but we didn't shut the local economy because it's mildly contagious. The chances of his friends, family and colleagues catching it are slim to none.

Yes we all have different levels of what we deem to be acceptable but this is just my current POV. That would probably change again if something more personal were to happen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on September 25, 2020, 07:01:41 AM
When this whole farrago started the UK government set out a plan to offer a flexible response to covid-19. In the following weeks and months as knowledge and experience have increased the pattern of responses has become more refined, more incisive, better calculated.

So, what is the purpose of a lockdown?
Simply to reduce the interactions that lead to networks of infection.

It is clear that a full lockdown is the most extreme method of reducing infections.

Now we have a graduated response that varies according infection rates on a micro and macro level.

Hopefully we won't return to a general lockdown but I can see situations in which it is the last resort available.

But that's the point, all of these restraints upon us are because, as a society (considering the UK here) we have chosen to preserve lives where possible. It is clear that the measures of the government, while moaned about, are in general supported.

That means that even if, personally, one does not agree, that one thinks covid-19 is a hoax, that we owe it to society as a whole, to go along with the measures. That's because not doing so is to make other people suffer for our stolen freedom.

Rosco you mention 'disproportionate measures'. Let me ask a question. Do you honestly think that the government is run by idiots? Worse yet perhaps, by people actively seeking to ruin our country and economy?

Whilst I am a pretty sceptical sort of a cove, I do not think that the government is controlled by idiots or evildoers. I believe they have very good advisors and the whole bunch of them have a task that is literally impossible to get right.

One thing I am fairly sure of though is this: measures are taken, as the prime minister told us months ago, based upon their level of risk (impact on R0) and the practicality of their implementation. Inevitably this means that some measures might seem contradictory.

The way I see it is this: the government has a budget of infections and deaths that it considers 'acceptable'. The government spends that budget as best it can to give the citizens of the UK as much social and economic freedom as possible.

As with any budget there's a myriad of ways to spend the resources. The administrator must try to get the best return on any expenditure.

Imagine the mental and emotional stress on the people making those choices. Quite literally deciding how many people will fall ill and how many people will die. Boris Johnson has visibly aged 20 years in the past 6 months.

These people won't always make perfect decisions. I won't be trying to second guess them. I keep an open eye and an open mind. During that time my life has gone to shit but I won't be blaming the government.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on September 25, 2020, 04:39:14 PM
I can't comment on the UK, as I don't get enough news to count or
a educated opinion. Here in Canada the news 60 minute show
minus commercials, so 45 minutes, 30 minutes dedicated to Covid 19
2 minutes weather, 2 minutes sport, 3 minutes local news, 2 minutes  interntional news.
all of the other major problems and issues get less than 10 minutes a day.

Explain to me how 80% of the folks make an informed decision
when 90% of the reporting is about one thing and most of us are not
even sure how accurate that reporting is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on September 30, 2020, 02:39:39 PM
Humanity is the Enemy!

https://thefreedomarticles.com/eerie-similarities-between-coronavirus-and-climate-change-hoaxes/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Jerash on October 01, 2020, 02:35:33 PM
I can't comment on the UK, as I don't get enough news to count or
a educated opinion. Here in Canada the news 60 minute show
minus commercials, so 45 minutes, 30 minutes dedicated to Covid 19
2 minutes weather, 2 minutes sport, 3 minutes local news, 2 minutes  interntional news.
all of the other major problems and issues get less than 10 minutes a day.

Explain to me how 80% of the folks make an informed decision
when 90% of the reporting is about one thing and most of us are not
even sure how accurate that reporting is.

I'd highly recommend branching out for your news!  You won't get proper news in the mainstream anymore.  We've got a full on propaganda campaign going on now.  It has been for most of this year.  I heard a definition I liked the other day: news is when you report an issue and follow up with analysis.  Propaganda is when you just keep reporting the same thing over and over again. 

It's designed as a nail to be hammered straight through your skull.  Probably too late, but beware!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on October 01, 2020, 11:26:15 PM
This is a clinal trial to contain the virus in families. They are using anti bodies to provide a short lived protection to keep the virus from spreading to people living with a covert-19 positive person. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-possible-covid-19-preventative-is-in-clinical-trials/ar-BB19CTBK?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on October 02, 2020, 08:41:17 AM
Trump and the first lady have the virus now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on October 03, 2020, 11:56:29 AM
 I posted a link about this guy in the Trump thread who is using hydroxy to treat covid, about 1700 cases and zero deaths. Here is another one I found with him being interviewed yesterday by a Canadian professor. It's an amazing story where he tells his experiences from when the virus first hit to present day. When word spread about his success in treating it locally the people started coming to him instead of going to the hospital because people were dying there while he was curing them on an outpatient basis.

 The CDC heard about him at the end of June and came and got all his data and spreadsheets which he kept for every patient he treated right from day one, it's was the first time they had ever been able to collect such precise data on covid treatment. They are still following up with his work to this day. Yet we have not heard anything from them about his success

 It's just over an hour long but well worth the time to watch it if you are interested in hearing how there really is a treatment for covid, no matter what the CDC says.


 One good thing he says is that this second wave of covid that is going around now isn't nearly as dangerous as what we got in the spring. The symptoms are much milder and he thinks it could actually be a strain of a flu virus that is showing up as positive in the covid tests. I've read elsewhere that other doctors are saying the same. Hopefully he is right
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 03, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Thank you for posting d672. It is also really nice to be able to read and discuss about this without being mocked.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 04, 2020, 04:20:06 AM
Thank you for posting d672. It is also really nice to be able to read and discuss about this without being mocked.

Agreed.

Some people seem to be completely dismissive even when there’s some kind of short term studies that appear to prove otherwise. Most of these people can’t stand the though of hydroxy being part of a solution because Trump supported it early on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on October 04, 2020, 05:22:08 AM
Thank you for posting d672. It is also really nice to be able to read and discuss about this without being mocked.

Agreed.

Some people seem to be completely dismissive even when there’s some kind of short term studies that appear to prove otherwise. Most of these people can’t stand the though of hydroxy being part of a solution because Trump supported it early on.

 I really couldn't care less what the Mobys of the world have to say when I post this stuff up. I read up on it because this is effecting my life. They are threatening luckdowns here again, Quebec already has done it...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-quebec-braces-for-grim-month-of-isolation/

 So if there are treatments out there and our govts are turning a blind eye to it for political purposes or monetary gain and are causing us all this grief it burns my ass. Especially when you see other countries openly doing it and finding success. I just read that Turkey also uses hydroxy as their main treatment for corona and has had great success with it. So if I find anything interesting that contradicts what they are telling us I share it here.

 I've also really started to get the travel itch again. I cancelled a vacation to Cuba last March because covid showed up so I would like to try to get away for a beach vacation this winter if I can. And also go to Europe next summer if possible. If there is something like hydroxy out there that a guy can take as a preventative measure when I go I would like to have something like that on hand. That's probably the biggest reason why I'm researching this stuff, not just to argue with someone.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 04, 2020, 08:28:23 AM
Here's one for Confederate.

https://thefreedomarticles.com/are-covid-tests-to-surreptitiously-infect-or-implant-people/

While I doubt the premise of the article. I have always wondered about this method of testing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 04, 2020, 10:31:34 AM
Here's one for Confederate.

https://thefreedomarticles.com/are-covid-tests-to-surreptitiously-infect-or-implant-people/

While I doubt the premise of the article. I have always wondered about this method of testing.


Creepy for sure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on October 04, 2020, 12:36:36 PM
REDEMPTION!
Cyrus A. Parsa
CEO AND FOUNDER, THE AI ORGANIZATION
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 04, 2020, 02:01:59 PM
So if there are treatments out there and our govts are turning a blind eye to it for political purposes or monetary gain and are causing us all this grief it burns my ass.

Robert Talbor sold the secrets of his malaria treatment to King Louis XIV for 2,000 guineas. It was accually Cinchona bark containing quinine.  :ROFL:

I like simple decisions.
People in all corners of our planet have been using Cinchona bark for about four centuries. Millions of lives were saved.
Now, we are arguing about the effectiveness of the synthetic molecule hydroxychloroquine which is based on quinine from C. bark.
Use the natural remedy!!!

The effect of C. bark can be explained by the principles of Ayurvedic medicine. It has a bitter taste.
When you consume the C. bark, your flesh acquires a bitter taste that all parasites, bacterias, and viruses absolutely hate!
Those organisms want to have a happy life!
So, they will leave your body, and go to someone with diabetes to have a sweet feast, enjoy themselves, and .... kill.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 04, 2020, 02:04:34 PM

I've also really started to get the travel itch again.

There is no remedy for the torturing travel itch.
I suffer it too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 04, 2020, 02:06:36 PM
So if there are treatments out there and our govts are turning a blind eye to it for political purposes or monetary gain and are causing us all this grief it burns my ass.

Robert Talbor sold the secrets of his malaria treatment to King Louis XIV for 2,000 guineas. It was accually Cinchona bark containing quinine.  :ROFL:

I like simple decisions.
People in all corners of our planet have been using Cinchona bark for about four centuries. Millions of lives were saved.
Now, we are arguing about the effectiveness of the synthetic molecule hydroxychloroquine which is based on quinine from C. bark.
Use the natural remedy!!!

The effect of C. bark can be explained by the principles of Ayurvedic medicine. It has a bitter taste.
When you consume the C. bark, your flesh acquires a bitter taste that all parasites, bacterias, and viruses absolutely hate!
Those organisms want to have a happy life!
So, they will live your body, and go to someone with diabetes to have a sweet feast, enjoy themselves, and .... kill.

Yes! Orchid for President!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 04, 2020, 02:28:13 PM
Yes! Orchid for President!

I am honored (knowing your undisputable loyalty to President Trump).  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 04, 2020, 04:30:02 PM
For those who think they may have had the virus already, but aren’t sure, you can get an antibody test to find out.

In the UK, BUPA are doing them for £65: https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/payg/covid-testing

I’m going to book one this week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 04, 2020, 05:48:28 PM
The testing is effective when there is an effective treatment tailored to this testing.
There is no definitive treatment for COVID-19. All treatment is simptomatic.

There is no way for all of us to avoid COVID-19.
That's why it is important to reduce exposure and reduce the virus load.
Change shoes coming home and wash hands like in Russia.
Use water instead of toilet paper like in India to support hygiene or use herbal tea like in China to stay hydrated.
I think COVID-19 is a good reminder that health requires some everyday attention.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 04, 2020, 07:44:30 PM
So if there are treatments out there and our govts are turning a blind eye to it for political purposes or monetary gain and are causing us all this grief it burns my ass.

Robert Talbor sold the secrets of his malaria treatment to King Louis XIV for 2,000 guineas. It was accually Cinchona bark containing quinine.  :ROFL:

I like simple decisions.
People in all corners of our planet have been using Cinchona bark for about four centuries. Millions of lives were saved.
Now, we are arguing about the effectiveness of the synthetic molecule hydroxychloroquine which is based on quinine from C. bark.
Use the natural remedy!!!

The effect of C. bark can be explained by the principles of Ayurvedic medicine. It has a bitter taste.
When you consume the C. bark, your flesh acquires a bitter taste that all parasites, bacterias, and viruses absolutely hate!
Those organisms want to have a happy life!
So, they will leave your body, and go to someone with diabetes to have a sweet feast, enjoy themselves, and .... kill.

What about Wormwood? Is it any good as a natural remedy against these viruses?

I read somewhere that it's good. What is your opinion of this one Orchid?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 05, 2020, 11:04:08 PM
So if there are treatments out there and our govts are turning a blind eye to it for political purposes or monetary gain and are causing us all this grief it burns my ass.

Robert Talbor sold the secrets of his malaria treatment to King Louis XIV for 2,000 guineas. It was accually Cinchona bark containing quinine.  :ROFL:

I like simple decisions.
People in all corners of our planet have been using Cinchona bark for about four centuries. Millions of lives were saved.
Now, we are arguing about the effectiveness of the synthetic molecule hydroxychloroquine which is based on quinine from C. bark.
Use the natural remedy!!!

The effect of C. bark can be explained by the principles of Ayurvedic medicine. It has a bitter taste.
When you consume the C. bark, your flesh acquires a bitter taste that all parasites, bacterias, and viruses absolutely hate!
Those organisms want to have a happy life!
So, they will leave your body, and go to someone with diabetes to have a sweet feast, enjoy themselves, and .... kill.

What about Wormwood? Is it any good as a natural remedy against these viruses?

I read somewhere that it's good. What is your opinion of this one Orchid?

Sorry, Mr. Confederate. I am not that knowledgeable in the herbal therapies.
I did a thorough research when pandemic started. That's how I know a history of hydroxychloroquine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 06, 2020, 08:33:19 AM
For those who think they may have had the virus already, but aren’t sure, you can get an antibody test to find out.

In the UK, BUPA are doing them for £65: https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/payg/covid-testing

I’m going to book one this week.

I can't help but think that, for most of us, an antibody test is the most useful. The antigen test only tells us if we are currently infected. Useful for short term needs such as leaving quarantine (as is done in Estonia) or to enable travel, or return to work. For knowledge and piece of mind, unless one feels shitty, knowing if one has had, or not, the lurgey seems for useful.

I took an antibody test a few weeks ago and the knowledge I gained (no antibodies) was useful in my planning. I had expected to find that I had been infected a few months ago.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 06, 2020, 10:31:50 AM

I can't help but think that, for most of us, an antibody test is the most useful. The antigen test only tells us if we are currently infected. Useful for short term needs such as leaving quarantine (as is done in Estonia) or to enable travel, or return to work. For knowledge and piece of mind, unless one feels shitty, knowing if one has had, or not, the lurgey seems for useful.

I took an antibody test a few weeks ago and the knowledge I gained (no antibodies) was useful in my planning. I had expected to find that I had been infected a few months ago.

The anigen test shows if you have ever been infected. Not currently!!!
So, reevaluate your "knowledge" and plans.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 06, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Thanks Orchid for noticing my error, got it back to front.

Just goes to show I'm human, eh?

To correct my post above.
Antigen tests show if one has been infected in the past.
Antibody tests show the same thing. As I noted I took an antibody test.

PCR tests show if one is currently infected. Despite my typo I do know that I was tested for antibodies. So, dear, dear, Orchid no changes to my plans. Thanks for your concern.

Sadly, your lack of English skills hampered your comprehension as you failed to understand what I had written and thus the point of the words.

As always Orchid, if there's something you don't understand please ask a polite question and I will be happy to assist you.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 06, 2020, 12:54:10 PM
Thanks Orchid for noticing my error, got it back to front.

Guess what... We are both wrong.  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Let's finally put everything together.
A virus is an agent that causes an immune response.
The body produces an antigen to detect the agent.
The antigen is a marker for anibodies to kill the agent.
So, immune response is a cascade. You can take a test at any point of cascade.
Antigens will be gone with the agent.
Antibodies will continue circulating in blood without agent.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 06, 2020, 12:55:18 PM
Sadly, your lack of English skills hampered your comprehension as you failed to understand what I had written and thus the point of the words.

Too many words..... too many words....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 06, 2020, 12:57:50 PM
Just goes to show I'm human, eh?

I have never doubted you as a human being.
I doubt your humanity.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 06, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
As always Orchid, ....

I was able to catch your original post.
Let me assure you: I am always happy!!! It's my nature.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 07, 2020, 06:25:26 AM
Coronavirus: Top scientists call for herd immunity approach - as government's 'soft touch' criticised

https://news.sky.com/story/scientists-and-politicians-split-over-how-to-tackle-rising-covid-infections-as-northern-leaders-say-restrictions-are-not-working-12096597

Top scientists are calling for a herd immunity approach to the coronavirus pandemic by allowing people who are less vulnerable to the effects of the disease to return to normal life.

The so-called Great Barrington declaration, signed by leading experts from the universities of Oxford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Cambridge, Sussex and York, suggests herd immunity as a way forward.

The declaration states: "The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to coronavirus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk.

"We call this focused protection."


I've believed for some time that a similar approach to the above, is the only viable way forward until we have a vaccine. I'm just glad that some experts have finally piped up. In the meantime, we're about an hour away from finding out what further restrictions our little government in Scotland will force upon us. The Scottish Nazi Party.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 07, 2020, 08:50:20 AM
As always Orchid, ....

I was able to catch your original post.
Let me assure you: I am always happy!!! It's my nature.

That's good for you because it was not what you wrote. Your words clearly showed you did not understand what you'd read - unless you were being purposefully dishonest and I am certain that you are the most honest person you know!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 07, 2020, 08:59:44 AM
Rosco, I can understand the point being made but it seems that somebody has not done the numbers. These 'scientists' are in the fortunate position of not having to stand on their hind legs in front of 65 million people and tell us that several million people are going to die early or live painful and less productive lives because the government and broader society is going to allow it to happen.

These people get to sit around a 'socially distanced' table and come up with great ideas for which they have no responsibility, no accountability.

These people get their names in the media, raise their career profiles, garner extra grant money, stir up unhappiness and fear and all with no comeback. Any criticism will be rebuffed with replies of 'its just ideas' and 'we are only scientists, not decision makers'!

This is a bag of crap.

As a society we take joint action to protect our members. We provide schooling to our kids, even if we have no kids of our own. We pay for everybody to have a pension, even if we will never draw a pension ourselves, we keep (roughly) to speed limits to prevent people from being killed or maimed.

We do all those things to protect each other - telling millions of people they are to be written off so you can go to the pub is obscene! That's a huge and heartless change to our society and it'd be the start of changes that none of us would want!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 09:14:59 AM
Rosco, I can understand the point being made but it seems that somebody has not done the numbers. These 'scientists' are in the fortunate position of not having to stand on their hind legs in front of 65 million people and tell us that several million people are going to die early or live painful and less productive lives because the government and broader society is going to allow it to happen.

These people get to sit around a 'socially distanced' table and come up with great ideas for which they have no responsibility, no accountability.

These people get their names in the media, raise their career profiles, garner extra grant money, stir up unhappiness and fear and all with no comeback. Any criticism will be rebuffed with replies of 'its just ideas' and 'we are only scientists, not decision makers'!

This is a bag of crap.

As a society we take joint action to protect our members. We provide schooling to our kids, even if we have no kids of our own. We pay for everybody to have a pension, even if we will never draw a pension ourselves, we keep (roughly) to speed limits to prevent people from being killed or maimed.

We do all those things to protect each other - telling millions of people they are to be written off so you can go to the pub is obscene! That's a huge and heartless change to our society and it'd be the start of changes that none of us would want!

Several million people?
You are definitely not good at math!!!!!

1.05M died from COVID-19.
1.35 million people die during one year on roads, accordig to CDC.
Does it mean that we should stop driving cars???

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 07, 2020, 09:26:40 AM
Rosco, I can understand the point being made but it seems that somebody has not done the numbers. These 'scientists' are in the fortunate position of not having to stand on their hind legs in front of 65 million people and tell us that several million people are going to die early or live painful and less productive lives because the government and broader society is going to allow it to happen.

These people get to sit around a 'socially distanced' table and come up with great ideas for which they have no responsibility, no accountability.

These people get their names in the media, raise their career profiles, garner extra grant money, stir up unhappiness and fear and all with no comeback. Any criticism will be rebuffed with replies of 'its just ideas' and 'we are only scientists, not decision makers'!

This is a bag of crap.

As a society we take joint action to protect our members. We provide schooling to our kids, even if we have no kids of our own. We pay for everybody to have a pension, even if we will never draw a pension ourselves, we keep (roughly) to speed limits to prevent people from being killed or maimed.

We do all those things to protect each other - telling millions of people they are to be written off so you can go to the pub is obscene! That's a huge and heartless change to our society and it'd be the start of changes that none of us would want!

I'm not sure that's the message from the article Andrew and its certainly not what I think should be done. However, I do believe that we need to be extremely mindful of the hospital occupancy and balanced in what we do in terms of living with the virus. I'm sure you were exaggerating for dramatic effect because we both know that millions of people in the UK wouldn't die of Covid in the next 10 years, if we did what the scientists suggested. In fact from those who have already died testing positive for Covid, I suspect most didn't die from it!

Nobody wants people to die so we can go to the pub, that's just silly.  But I would like to see people who need urgent care for other forms of life threatening illness, be given more prioritised care. I'd like to see people living in poverty, struggling to simply survive getting the same attention covid has been given. I'd like to see children, who are more at risk from the flu than they are from covid, be given more priority in terms of education, socialisation and family interaction. Generations of young people are growing up and not seeing their grandparents before they die because we're protecting a minority. This is all a sad fact of life right now. Did you read about the farce in the funeral parlour yesterday?

I agree this sort of stuff is always much easier when we aren't addressing the nation as its leader and making hard decisions from a socially distanced think tank is not the same as an elected Prime minister calling the shots. However, as this pandemic plays out we'll inevitably start moving from a save lives at all costs strategy to one that balances the needs of everyone.

If we lock the whole country down today we might save 30,000 frail, ill people who are unlikely to see 2021 but at the cost of 60 odd million other people with their own various problems. It's an unpopular opinion but there's no need to get upset with me because I cant make that call and for the sake of valuable discussion you need to be able to offend.

I'm yet to be sold on herd immunity but I am more realistic about who this virus is effecting and the possible hybrid strategies we're likely to adopt over the coming months and years. My opinion of course but the lives and livelihoods of the vast majority are being wrecked before our eyes for the sake of a tiny minority and this needs to be balanced out more equally.

Selfish? No. I'm simply less emotional and more rational when it comes to this sort of stuff. It's caveman stuff, protect the weak and ill and let the fit and healthy provide for the group.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 09:27:44 AM
As always Orchid, ....

I was able to catch your original post.
Let me assure you: I am always happy!!! It's my nature.

That's good for you because it was not what you wrote. Your words clearly showed you did not understand what you'd read - unless you were being purposefully dishonest and I am certain that you are the most honest person you know!

I am certain it will not help much to an antisocial personality like you are, but .... just in case:

The majority of your posts look like your morning purulent nose discharge
.... which strongly correlatees with cockroaches from your head on your avatar.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 07, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
Several million people?
You are definitely not good at math!!!!!

1.05M died from COVID-19.
1.35 million people die during one year on roads, accordig to CDC.
Does it mean that we should stop driving cars???
Aha, but the 1.05M number is from only an incomplete year of data.

Most western countries started around april with Covid, since its october now that gives you half a year of data. So at best 2.10M people will die from Covid per year which is almost double the number of roadside deaths. Its also much more than the flu (0.5M / year) and other diseases.

And thats counting just the deadly encounters. Millions more will need medicine for the rest of their lives because of chronic heart conditions, asthma and other stuff doctors are just now finding out about Covid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 07, 2020, 09:49:31 AM
1.05M died from COVID-19.



I don't trust the numbers coming out of many nations. Nations like India and China water down what is actually happening. I do trust the UK's numbers 544,275 infected and 42,515 dead. Tens of thousands are still sick and their fate has yet to be determined. The UK is approaching a 10% case fatality rate right now. Most of the deaths happen when they and other nations were caught off-guard. The most vulnerable were not sheltered and protected and hospitals were overloaded so the sick didn't get proper care. There was a time earlier this year COVID was easily the number 1 killer of Americans and that was with just a few States on the East Coast losing control. Within a few months, 1 out of every 600 people in NY and New Jersey died from COVID.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
Death on a road is a fact.
Death from COVID is not always a fact.

Yes, NY was crying for help.
Trump sent a military hospital on ship to help.
Only few patients were treated on that ship.
The cost of treatment for one patient was about six million dollars.
I am wondering what would be the choice of those patients if they would offered to get $6,000,000 on their account and stay home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 10:00:06 AM
Coronavirus: Top scientists call for herd immunity approach - as government's 'soft touch' criticised

https://news.sky.com/story/scientists-and-politicians-split-over-how-to-tackle-rising-covid-infections-as-northern-leaders-say-restrictions-are-not-working-12096597

Top scientists are calling for a herd immunity approach to the coronavirus pandemic by allowing people who are less vulnerable to the effects of the disease to return to normal life.

The so-called Great Barrington declaration, signed by leading experts from the universities of Oxford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Cambridge, Sussex and York, suggests herd immunity as a way forward.

The declaration states: "The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to coronavirus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk.

"We call this focused protection."


I've believed for some time that a similar approach to the above, is the only viable way forward until we have a vaccine. I'm just glad that some experts have finally piped up. In the meantime, we're about an hour away from finding out what further restrictions our little government in Scotland will force upon us. The Scottish Nazi Party.

Medical communities become sick and tired of political games around a respiratory disease.
Thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 07, 2020, 10:44:51 AM
Trump sent a military hospital on ship to help.
Only few patients were treated on that ship.
The cost of treatment for one patient was about six million dollars.
I am wondering what would be the choice of those patients if they would offered to get $6,000,000 on their account and stay home.

The ship was primarily for patients who were not ill with COVID so hospitals can dedicated their staff to patients who were ill with COVID. The American taxpayer has to pay for that ship and it's crew whether it's doing something productive or not. Most of America's military does nothing but train for something that may or may not happen.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 10:59:12 AM
Trump sent a military hospital on ship to help.
Only few patients were treated on that ship.
The cost of treatment for one patient was about six million dollars.
I am wondering what would be the choice of those patients if they would offered to get $6,000,000 on their account and stay home.

The ship was primarily for patients who were not ill with COVID so hospitals can dedicated their staff to patients who were ill with COVID. The American taxpayer has to pay for that ship and it's crew whether it's doing something productive or not. Most of America's military does nothing but train for something that may or may not happen.

It was the initial intention. Then they agreed to take COVID patients.
Still, no patients.....

By the way... we all like to salute to hero nurses and doctors.
In fact, the majority of them were without jobs because many clinics were closed, surgery were canceled, people were afraid to go to ER for other reasons than COVID.
Our nursing graduates could not find jobs!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 07, 2020, 11:05:56 AM
It was the initial intention. Then they agreed to take COVID patients.


That is correct but the ship did so under public pressure. Truth is a ship is not the best place for humans and COVID. The cruise ship industry found out the hard way. I've been in the military when I was a young man. We train but we are not experts. Many of the medical personnel on that ship may not be good enough for the real world since they don't have much experience yet and it's not a smart move to give them a dangerous task when better qualified people in a hospital can handle it while the ship takes on more simpler medical tasks. The public doesn't understand that and the politicians are afraid to tell the truth so they gave into public pressure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 11:11:01 AM
It was the initial intention. Then they agreed to take COVID patients.


That is correct but the ship did so under public pressure. Truth is a ship is not the best place for humans and COVID. The cruise ship industry found out the hard way. I've been in the military when I was a young man. We train but we are not experts. Many of the medical personnel on that ship may not be good enough for the real world since they don't have much experience yet and it's not a smart move to give them a dangerous task when better qualified people in a hospital can handle it while the ship takes on more simpler medical tasks. The public doesn't understand that and the politicians are afraid to tell the truth so they gave into public pressure.

And what the ship is good for if not for humans???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 07, 2020, 11:30:17 AM
It was the initial intention. Then they agreed to take COVID patients.


That is correct but the ship did so under public pressure. Truth is a ship is not the best place for humans and COVID. The cruise ship industry found out the hard way. I've been in the military when I was a young man. We train but we are not experts. Many of the medical personnel on that ship may not be good enough for the real world since they don't have much experience yet and it's not a smart move to give them a dangerous task when better qualified people in a hospital can handle it while the ship takes on more simpler medical tasks. The public doesn't understand that and the politicians are afraid to tell the truth so they gave into public pressure.

And what the ship is good for if not for humans???

It's a front line hospital for war. Once a patient is stable enough to fly hours to a better hospital out of the warzone, they'll get transferred to a more capable facility with better doctors who may be civilians. If I had COVID or needed an operation, I'd want to go to a civilian hospital rather than a military ship since most of the people on that ship haven't worked a single day in the medical field as a civilian.

Also keep in mind the media isn't interested in facts since they're interested in making Trump look bad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 07, 2020, 11:45:53 AM
Just goes to show I'm human, eh?

I have never doubted you as a human being.
I doubt your humanity.  :ROFL:

 :ROFL:        :ROFL:         :ROFL:      tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 11:47:53 AM
It was the initial intention. Then they agreed to take COVID patients.


That is correct but the ship did so under public pressure. Truth is a ship is not the best place for humans and COVID. The cruise ship industry found out the hard way. I've been in the military when I was a young man. We train but we are not experts. Many of the medical personnel on that ship may not be good enough for the real world since they don't have much experience yet and it's not a smart move to give them a dangerous task when better qualified people in a hospital can handle it while the ship takes on more simpler medical tasks. The public doesn't understand that and the politicians are afraid to tell the truth so they gave into public pressure.

And what the ship is good for if not for humans???

It's a front line hospital for war. Once a patient is stable enough to fly hours to a better hospital out of the warzone, they'll get transferred to a more capable facility with better doctors who may be civilians. If I had COVID or needed an operation, I'd want to go to a civilian hospital rather than a military ship since most of the people on that ship haven't worked a single day in the medical field as a civilian.

Also keep in mind the media isn't interested in facts since they're interested in making Trump look bad.

I totally agree with you.
When Cuomo said that state resources were exhausted and requested federal help,
I expected that ship to be full to the top with helicopters barraging over it.
And yes: you, me, and other taxpayers paid for his lie.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 11:49:10 AM
Just goes to show I'm human, eh?

I have never doubted you as a human being.
I doubt your humanity.  :ROFL:

 :ROFL:        :ROFL:         :ROFL:      tiphat


 :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 07, 2020, 12:07:10 PM
It was the initial intention. Then they agreed to take COVID patients.


That is correct but the ship did so under public pressure. Truth is a ship is not the best place for humans and COVID. The cruise ship industry found out the hard way. I've been in the military when I was a young man. We train but we are not experts. Many of the medical personnel on that ship may not be good enough for the real world since they don't have much experience yet and it's not a smart move to give them a dangerous task when better qualified people in a hospital can handle it while the ship takes on more simpler medical tasks. The public doesn't understand that and the politicians are afraid to tell the truth so they gave into public pressure.

And what the ship is good for if not for humans???

It's a front line hospital for war. Once a patient is stable enough to fly hours to a better hospital out of the warzone, they'll get transferred to a more capable facility with better doctors who may be civilians. If I had COVID or needed an operation, I'd want to go to a civilian hospital rather than a military ship since most of the people on that ship haven't worked a single day in the medical field as a civilian.

Also keep in mind the media isn't interested in facts since they're interested in making Trump look bad.

I totally agree with you.
When Cuomo said that state resources were exhausted and requested federal help,
I expected that ship to be full to the top with helicopters barraging over it.
And yes: you, me, and other taxpayers paid for his lie.

Trump also built NY a hospital by converting a convention center into one. Like the ship, it was never filled to capacity. Many COVID patients who were not seriously ill were transferred to hospitals in suburban and rural areas in NY to help with the load so the NY city wouldn't be so overwhelmed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 07, 2020, 05:05:25 PM
Read somewhere P. Porschenko has COVID and that he is not doing well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 07, 2020, 05:19:43 PM
For those who think they may have had the virus already, but aren’t sure, you can get an antibody test to find out.

In the UK, BUPA are doing them for £65: https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/payg/covid-testing

I’m going to book one this week.

Apparently there is a big demand for antibody tests. The first slot I could get is the 27th of October. So I should know a couple of days afterwards if I’ve had it.

I’m pretty sure I had it - or something like it - in late December and/or February. I had two bouts of unusually bad lurgy at those times. I’d just come back from China and Korea in December and we had a week in Spain right before everything closed down in March when it was rampant there.

My son also had lurgy in Spain, he spent half the week in bed and we spent half the holiday driving to pharmacies buying crappy Spanish cough mixtures. They don’t sell proper stuff like Benylin there.

There are many confirmed cases at my daughters school. She had two or three days recently with a sore throat and a bit of a cough, but she shook it off like kids tend to.

If my antibody test says I’ve had it then it’s a fair assumption that we have all had it in our household. We will see.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 07:47:54 PM
For those who think they may have had the virus already, but aren’t sure, you can get an antibody test to find out.

In the UK, BUPA are doing them for £65: https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/payg/covid-testing

I’m going to book one this week.

Apparently there is a big demand for antibody tests. The first slot I could get is the 27th of October. So I should know a couple of days afterwards if I’ve had it.

I’m pretty sure I had it - or something like it - in late December and/or February. I had two bouts of unusually bad lurgy at those times. I’d just come back from China and Korea in December and we had a week in Spain right before everything closed down in March when it was rampant there.

My son also had lurgy in Spain, he spent half the week in bed and we spent half the holiday driving to pharmacies buying crappy Spanish cough mixtures. They don’t sell proper stuff like Benylin there.

There are many confirmed cases at my daughters school. She had two or three days recently with a sore throat and a bit of a cough, but she shook it off like kids tend to.

If my antibody test says I’ve had it then it’s a fair assumption that we have all had it in our household. We will see.

There is nothing wrong with having COVID.
As I said before we all will have it.

It is important with COVID to closely monitor it.
How to do it? Easy! Nowadays, we need to have a pulse oximeter in every household.
Blood oxygenation lower than 85% is an emergency. Normal oxygenation depends on age and health. Usually above 95%.
So, treat all symptoms and monitor the body temperature and blood oxygenation.
What is very very very very helpful is - to have an oxygen concentrator.
Oxygen itself is a medication. It is given at hospital by prescription only.
So, use it when needed, not all the time.
Oxygen aggressively kills viruses.
If I have a cold, I sleep a night with 2 liters/min and that’s enough!!!
I am surprised that that simple treatment is not discussed in media.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 07, 2020, 10:09:25 PM
Read somewhere P. Porschenko has COVID and that he is not doing well.

The Candy Man has diabetes and now battling pneumonia. Not a good while being positive for COVID.

https://www.rferl.org/a/former-ukrainian-president-poroshenko-hospitalized-with-covid-19-related-pneumonia/30873363.html


Nowadays, we need to have a pulse oximeter in every household.
Blood oxygenation lower than 85% is an emergency. Normal oxygenation depends on age and health. Usually above 95%.
So, treat all symptoms and monitor the body temperature and blood oxygenation.
What is very very very very helpful is - to have an oxygen concentrator.
Oxygen itself is a medication. It is given at hospital by prescription only.
So, use it when needed, not all the time.
Oxygen aggressively kills viruses.
If I have a cold, I sleep a night with 2 liters/min and that’s enough!!!
I am surprised that that simple treatment is not discussed in media.


A few months ago my wife bought a pulse oximeter. You're right about oxygen being important. I snore and did a sleep study and my oxygen levels were in the 70's and I'd wake up tired. I now use a CPAP. By having low levels of oxygen, our organs die. When doctors didn't have ventilators for their patients, they put them on CPAPs. CPAPs opens airways and applies pressure so our lungs absorb oxygen better. For a few hundred bucks, a person can buy a used CPAP and it'll improve their health, especially if they snore or get sick at home.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 07, 2020, 10:40:59 PM
Read somewhere P. Porschenko has COVID and that he is not doing well.

The Candy Man has diabetes and now battling pneumonia. Not a good while being positive for COVID.

https://www.rferl.org/a/former-ukrainian-president-poroshenko-hospitalized-with-covid-19-related-pneumonia/30873363.html


Nowadays, we need to have a pulse oximeter in every household.
Blood oxygenation lower than 85% is an emergency. Normal oxygenation depends on age and health. Usually above 95%.
So, treat all symptoms and monitor the body temperature and blood oxygenation.
What is very very very very helpful is - to have an oxygen concentrator.
Oxygen itself is a medication. It is given at hospital by prescription only.
So, use it when needed, not all the time.
Oxygen aggressively kills viruses.
If I have a cold, I sleep a night with 2 liters/min and that's enough!!!
I am surprised that that simple treatment is not discussed in media.


A few months ago my wife bought a pulse oximeter. You're right about oxygen being important. I snore and did a sleep study and my oxygen levels were in the 70's and I'd wake up tired. I now use a CPAP. By having low levels of oxygen, our organs die. When doctors didn't have ventilators for their patients, they put them on CPAPs. CPAPs opens airways and applies pressure so our lungs absorb oxygen better. For a few hundred bucks, a person can buy a used CPAP and it'll improve their health, especially if they snore or get sick at home.

I have a great respect for your wife.
The danger of COVID is in a rapid progression.
A pulse oximeter allows us to detect a danger,
and oxygen concentrator gives a chance to save a life by having time to reach a ventilator.
This is the worst case scenario.

CPAP is important to save a life too. Please, use it every night!!!
What a great idea to use a CPAP as a ventilator!!! Never thought about it.
For every night use, sleep study is important to personalize the air pressure.
Too low pressure is useless. Too high air pressure can be damaging.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on October 07, 2020, 10:52:49 PM
Read somewhere P. Porschenko has COVID and that he is not doing well.

I think if Trump would of gotten it in April I think he most likely would died. His symptom were coming on fast when he went to Walter Reed. I believe they are able treat it much better now. I do not want to chance getting it. I am hoping I can stay clear until the vaccine comes out in about another eight months. Mean while I try to stay away from as many people as I can. Yes they will have is approved in January but I do not think is will be available for some time after that.

I know schools are trying hard but it is nearly impossible to keep a disease that spreads that easily contained. There is another problem in some cases people have caught the disease twice a few months apart.  They are noticing this in New York where the people are getting a different strain of the disease so they surely catching it again.  It will be interesting to see the data on vaccines and long long they work for.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 08, 2020, 05:55:13 AM

It is important with COVID to closely monitor it.
How to do it? Easy! Nowadays, we need to have a pulse oximeter in every household.
Blood oxygenation lower than 85% is an emergency. Normal oxygenation depends on age and health. Usually above 95%.

From experience: Most households already have an oxygen meter in their home. Its called your mobile phone.

Just check if your model has the oxy-sat sensor and install google-health / samsung-health / apple-fit (etc).

It might not be correct 100% but its close enough to know when things go wrong.

And also from experience:
Covid is so dangerous because your oxygen saturation can drop as low as 65% without you feeling ill until you (quite suddenly) drop dead in a few seconds.
https://respiratory-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12931-020-01462-5
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on October 08, 2020, 05:55:48 AM
I’ve had some interaction with an epidemiologist who has been heavily involved with tracking the spread of Covid where I am.
He is of the opinion  that herd immunity is the way to go and that an antibody testing regime will allow a semblance of normality to return and enable people to travel and get back to work.
He says that only a very small percentage of cases result in serious infection or death and for the vast majority ( above 99%) it’s only a mild infection.
He says that governments are being overly cautious and it’s time that they followed the science and not feelz.

I tend to agree with him.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 08, 2020, 06:26:45 AM
I’ve had some interaction with an epidemiologist who has been heavily involved with tracking the spread of Covid where I am.
He is of the opinion  that herd immunity is the way to go and that an antibody testing regime will allow a semblance of normality to return and enable people to travel and get back to work.
He says that only a very small percentage of cases result in serious infection or death and for the vast majority ( above 99%) it’s only a mild infection.
He says that governments are being overly cautious and it’s time that they followed the science and not feelz.

I tend to agree with him.

While I have read too much, and it is now boring to me. I think COVID will come to be seen as a sort of HIV are not that absurd. Yes I understand HIV has a stigma to it.

The death rate for those who are hospitalized with COVID has gone from the low teens in March and April till now around 4%.

In the end the numbers will win out and you will see more accepting a herd approach. To some degree this is what Sweden has already done. This does not mean that the quarantine efforts of the first half of this year were wrong, rather it has given doctors and researches time to develop strategies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on October 08, 2020, 07:07:00 AM
It is being uncovered that people who have covid-19 often have longer term health problems even if they did not have any symptoms when they had the disease. It also appears that long term herd immunity may not be possible because the immunity to the disease may not last all that long.  This disease once thought to only attack the respiratory system now being discovered to attack nearly every system in the body.  People who get the disease a second time often do worse with the second infection than the first as it is thought that damage left be the first attack makes them weaker.

I believe if this disease were to be left unchecked it with would eventually kill a very large number of people with repeated infections every year or so. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on October 08, 2020, 07:36:10 AM
It is being uncovered that people who have covid-19 often have longer term health problems even if they did not have any symptoms when they had the disease. It also appears that long term herd immunity may not be possible because the immunity to the disease may not last all that long.  This disease once thought to only attack the respiratory system now being discovered to attack nearly every system in the body.  People who get the disease a second time often do worse with the second infection than the first as it is thought that damage left be the first attack makes them weaker.

I believe if this disease were to be left unchecked it with would eventually kill a very large number of people with repeated infections every year or so.
Let’s deal with facts not beliefs, Tex.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 08, 2020, 08:04:00 AM
It is being uncovered that people who have covid-19 often have longer term health problems even if they did not have any symptoms when they had the disease. It also appears that long term herd immunity may not be possible because the immunity to the disease may not last all that long.  This disease once thought to only attack the respiratory system now being discovered to attack nearly every system in the body.  People who get the disease a second time often do worse with the second infection than the first as it is thought that damage left be the first attack makes them weaker.

I believe if this disease were to be left unchecked it with would eventually kill a very large number of people with repeated infections every year or so.
Let’s deal with facts not beliefs, Tex.

Absolutely.

Making large generalisations from limited short term data only leads us down the wrong path. From the 10's/100's of millions of people who have probably come into contact with covid, only a few have reported contracting the virus a second time with serious symptoms. Time will tell but like every disease, there's always going to be a few outliers and we cant make their situation a standard.

Some people just love a hysterical headline and will run without thinking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 08, 2020, 08:05:53 AM
I’ve had some interaction with an epidemiologist who has been heavily involved with tracking the spread of Covid where I am.
He is of the opinion  that herd immunity is the way to go and that an antibody testing regime will allow a semblance of normality to return and enable people to travel and get back to work.
He says that only a very small percentage of cases result in serious infection or death and for the vast majority ( above 99%) it’s only a mild infection.
He says that governments are being overly cautious and it’s time that they followed the science and not feelz.

I tend to agree with him.

Interesting stuff DS.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 08, 2020, 08:41:12 AM
Rosco, you misread what I wrote. I wrote that millions of people would die or have shorter, less productive lives as a result of Covid if we went down the road of herd immunity. The outcome would be on that scale.

Some people do not understand what herd immunity is. Simply put, herd immunity is the process by which enough people become infected with a disease, and recover from it, that the number of targets for new infections is reduced to a degree that the disease virus or bacterium cannot find enough new, viable hosts and so it dies out.

The proportion of the population that needs to be immune as a result of infection is different for different infections. For Covid-19 the estimate is around 60% of the population.

There isn't herd immunity in Sweden - they might be 30% of the way there!

Take the UK as an example. there's 64 million of us. We can't control who gets infected or not. We can imprison people for a while, but we're done with that already!

In the UK 7.8% of the population of people who are KNOWN to have had covid-19 died. Of course, many more people have had the lurgey and many have died without us knowing either. So, let us assume that both sides of the equation cancel out.

Let us assume that we go for 'herd immunity' and the estimate is accurate at 60% and that the lurgey dies out as soon as we get to 60% (that would not happen - it'd carry on, but easy numbers, eh?)

38 million people infected and survived (anyone who dies can't contribute to the immune population). With a death rate among infected we are looking at 2.9 million deaths!

Next add in the people who have lives devastated by covid-19. People unable to breathe, people who can no longer do psychical work or exercise, people with mental illnesses both directly and indirectly related.

We do not know what the future holds, what the death rate might be in the future, whether there will be an effective vaccine, if there is a vaccine, how long will it take to vaccinate 60% of the population.

All we can be sure of is what we already know. 7.8% of the people who we know get infected with covid-19 die as a result of that infection. Herd immunity as proposed by ivory tower idiots will result in millions of people who will die sooner than they should or will have nasty lives, and probably wish they were dead, as a result of the infection.

Rosco, am I exaggerating for effect? Nope, just a man with a calculator!
https://www.google.com/search?q=death+rate+from+covid+19+infections+UK&rlz=1C1GIGM_enGB830GB830&oq=death+rate+from+covid+19+infections+UK&aqs=chrome..69i57.10335j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 08, 2020, 09:09:15 AM
Rosco, you misread what I wrote. I wrote that millions of people would die or have shorter, less productive lives as a result of Covid if we went down the road of herd immunity. The outcome would be on that scale.

Some people do not understand what herd immunity is. Simply put, herd immunity is the process by which enough people become infected with a disease, and recover from it, that the number of targets for new infections is reduced to a degree that the disease virus or bacterium cannot find enough new, viable hosts and so it dies out.

The proportion of the population that needs to be immune as a result of infection is different for different infections. For Covid-19 the estimate is around 60% of the population.

There isn't herd immunity in Sweden - they might be 30% of the way there!

Take the UK as an example. there's 64 million of us. We can't control who gets infected or not. We can imprison people for a while, but we're done with that already!

In the UK 7.8% of the population of people who are KNOWN to have had covid-19 died. Of course, many more people have had the lurgey and many have died without us knowing either. So, let us assume that both sides of the equation cancel out.

Let us assume that we go for 'herd immunity' and the estimate is accurate at 60% and that the lurgey dies out as soon as we get to 60% (that would not happen - it'd carry on, but easy numbers, eh?)

38 million people infected and survived (anyone who dies can't contribute to the immune population). With a death rate among infected we are looking at 2.9 million deaths!

Next add in the people who have lives devastated by covid-19. People unable to breathe, people who can no longer do psychical work or exercise, people with mental illnesses both directly and indirectly related.

We do not know what the future holds, what the death rate might be in the future, whether there will be an effective vaccine, if there is a vaccine, how long will it take to vaccinate 60% of the population.

All we can be sure of is what we already know. 7.8% of the people who we know get infected with covid-19 die as a result of that infection. Herd immunity as proposed by ivory tower idiots will result in millions of people who will die sooner than they should or will have nasty lives, and probably wish they were dead, as a result of the infection.

Rosco, am I exaggerating for effect? Nope, just a man with a calculator!
https://www.google.com/search?q=death+rate+from+covid+19+infections+UK&rlz=1C1GIGM_enGB830GB830&oq=death+rate+from+covid+19+infections+UK&aqs=chrome..69i57.10335j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Andrew, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to expand on that and I don't see this as a black or white, I'm right you're wrong situation. However I disagree with the numbers being thumbed into your calculator, they aren't quite correct in my opinion.

There is no compelling data yet, to back up either argument but I strongly believe that this virus has been doing the rounds in its form, pre 2020 and that the number of people who have had it (asymptomatic, a cold or bed ridden) is far greater than many people think. For example 7.8% is a key data point for you to calculate a death rate on mass but I believe that figure to be far smaller on a national level which changes the landscape dramatically. Yes 7.8% is a figure we can prove but it doesn't prove that this is proportional. 7.8% of people at a party drunk Vodka but that isn't the same as 7.8% of people in the UK drink vodka.

7.8% is more likely to be nearer 1%, once diluted on a true scale or perhaps smaller still. Millions of people wont even know that they have had it. You also assumed that many have died without us knowing they had it, which you believe to be equal in proportion to the above. I don't think so and anyone who's died since March this year will have been tested for Covid by the authorities. Then throwing the false readings, other strains of virus being detected as covid-19 etc and that data becomes a shit show.

Of course I cant back it up without hard data which doesn't yet exist but if we had the luxury of testing the whole nation tonight, to see who's been exposed, the figures would be skewed dramatically IMHO.

Just my thoughts of course....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 08, 2020, 10:25:48 AM
As I noted, if we think there are people out there who have not been counted as infected there are also people who died without having been tested or even diagnosed.

Thus both sides tend to balance out.

How about you tell me a number based on published, primary data, for people who die of Covid-19 or have ruined lives as a result of infection.

Where's your comfort zone, a number that you are happy to tell Boris Johnson, should die in order to make your life more convenient?

You see there's stuff we know and stuff we don't know. We know that some deaths and ruined lives are unavoidable. You're saying that more deaths and more ruined lives than might be expected under current strategy is acceptable. But everything other than what we know is a guess.

So, I am curious. How many people are you happy to assume the responsibility to kill?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 08, 2020, 11:42:16 AM
Rosco, you misread what I wrote. I wrote that millions of people would die or have shorter, less productive lives as a result of Covid if we went down the road of herd immunity. The outcome would be on that scale.

Some people do not understand what herd immunity is. Simply put, herd immunity is the process by which enough people become infected with a disease, and recover from it, that the number of targets for new infections is reduced to a degree that the disease virus or bacterium cannot find enough new, viable hosts and so it dies out.

The proportion of the population that needs to be immune as a result of infection is different for different infections. For Covid-19 the estimate is around 60% of the population.

There isn't herd immunity in Sweden - they might be 30% of the way there!

Take the UK as an example. there's 64 million of us. We can't control who gets infected or not. We can imprison people for a while, but we're done with that already!

In the UK 7.8% of the population of people who are KNOWN to have had covid-19 died. Of course, many more people have had the lurgey and many have died without us knowing either. So, let us assume that both sides of the equation cancel out.

Let us assume that we go for 'herd immunity' and the estimate is accurate at 60% and that the lurgey dies out as soon as we get to 60% (that would not happen - it'd carry on, but easy numbers, eh?)

38 million people infected and survived (anyone who dies can't contribute to the immune population). With a death rate among infected we are looking at 2.9 million deaths!

Next add in the people who have lives devastated by covid-19. People unable to breathe, people who can no longer do psychical work or exercise, people with mental illnesses both directly and indirectly related.

We do not know what the future holds, what the death rate might be in the future, whether there will be an effective vaccine, if there is a vaccine, how long will it take to vaccinate 60% of the population.

All we can be sure of is what we already know. 7.8% of the people who we know get infected with covid-19 die as a result of that infection. Herd immunity as proposed by ivory tower idiots will result in millions of people who will die sooner than they should or will have nasty lives, and probably wish they were dead, as a result of the infection.

Rosco, am I exaggerating for effect? Nope, just a man with a calculator!
https://www.google.com/search?q=death+rate+from+covid+19+infections+UK&rlz=1C1GIGM_enGB830GB830&oq=death+rate+from+covid+19+infections+UK&aqs=chrome..69i57.10335j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Andrew, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to expand on that and I don't see this as a black or white, I'm right you're wrong situation. However I disagree with the numbers being thumbed into your calculator, they aren't quite correct in my opinion.

There is no compelling data yet, to back up either argument but I strongly believe that this virus has been doing the rounds in its form, pre 2020 and that the number of people who have had it (asymptomatic, a cold or bed ridden) is far greater than many people think. For example 7.8% is a key data point for you to calculate a death rate on mass but I believe that figure to be far smaller on a national level which changes the landscape dramatically. Yes 7.8% is a figure we can prove but it doesn't prove that this is proportional. 7.8% of people at a party drunk Vodka but that isn't the same as 7.8% of people in the UK drink vodka.

7.8% is more likely to be nearer 1%, once diluted on a true scale or perhaps smaller still. Millions of people wont even know that they have had it. You also assumed that many have died without us knowing they had it, which you believe to be equal in proportion to the above. I don't think so and anyone who's died since March this year will have been tested for Covid by the authorities. Then throwing the false readings, other strains of virus being detected as covid-19 etc and that data becomes a shit show.

Of course I cant back it up without hard data which doesn't yet exist but if we had the luxury of testing the whole nation tonight, to see who's been exposed, the figures would be skewed dramatically IMHO.

Just my thoughts of course....

Well said Rosco.

I really think Dogsoldier and you are onto something.

I personally don't believe the tests are accurate.

I reject the notion that those like Sweden who mostly believe in herd immunity, are deliberately causing someone's death.

Did we engage in that kind of fear porn in years past during flu season?

There are too many variables and the notion that wearing masks at all times and shutting down economies or always quarantining will save every life possible is false.

Some people who wear a mask and stay home still manage to get it.

So then it's up to their immune system and the quality of care.

It's a fact that not wearing masks in the past but breathing in all air including some bad colds and flu viruses; well that strengthens a person's immune system on an ongoing basis.

How many deaths are now occurring because a person's immune system was weakened from wearing a mask and then they still got the Covid?

Because of the narrative that sort of question has never been asked.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 08, 2020, 01:17:57 PM
All we can be sure of is what we already know. 7.8% of the people who we know get infected with covid-19 die as a result of that infection.

Thats nonsense.

See here (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8819839/UK-announces-17-540-Covid-19-cases-77-deaths-infections-treble-fortnight.html). We recorded 17540 more cases and 77 deaths today. Thats 0.43%. Add in the cases not recorded, the fake cause of death numbers, and those not known, and the real death rate is totally miniscule.

Its way less than 1%, nothing like your 7.8%, and mostly with those with underlying conditions. There are I think zero kids that have died. More than half of people have no notable symptoms.

Our daily deaths are now miniscule. Its weakened as its spreading and mutating. Its burning out. Its pretty much gone in China already. Life is back to normal there.

I said from the start that Boris is aiming at slow herd immunity.

It's only a case of nailing down the spikes now. That means Muslim areas, places young people congregate, people coming back from abroad and trying to keep the underclass in line.

Data here suggests the virus is becoming less serious as it mutates and spreads. If the spikes are kept under control herd immunity will arrive slowly.

Deaths are low enough now that we can disregard it as a serious threat and disregard the idea of a second spike. Common sense and hygiene is all that is needed now.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 08, 2020, 04:39:15 PM
I think I understand the numbers that Andrew is noting. Fair enough.

The fear of COVID is it seems to be some mass blindness or hysteria. You do not hear much about Opiate addiction in The States or the various man responsible cancers i.e. smoking > Lung cancer. One could point out world wide deaths due to weapons or automobiles. Only a passing commentary. If one looks at deaths due to preventable diseases or starvation. Than COVID would be a slim piece of the pie.

My guess one way or the other we will learn to live with it. But this time in history will be seen as BC or PC.*

Worth noting that Lyme borreliosis primarily spread by ticks is thought to been present in farm animals in the UK for a long time. But recognized in Lyme CT it has spread though the general population in the United States since 1975.

* BC= Before COVID ~ PC = Post COVID
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 08, 2020, 04:53:39 PM
No need for a calculator. Just use your eyes. Our community hospitals can handle all the illnesses and physical injuries of the community. When we were living normal lives, not taking action against COVID and allowing it to increase exponentially, that one disease overwhelmed our hospitals and that is when the death rate skyrocketed. We are not going back to living normal lives until this is over. COVID is bad news.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 08, 2020, 04:59:32 PM
No need for a calculator. Just use your eyes. Our community hospitals can handle all the illnesses and physical injuries of the community. When we were living normal lives, not taking action against COVID and allowing it to increase exponentially, that one disease overwhelmed our hospitals and that is when the death rate skyrocketed. We are not going back to living normal lives until this is over. COVID is bad news.

Yes exactly this.

NL already has a second wave coming. Today in the news we heard hospitals are already postponing non-permanent disability causing things.
The only treatments not postponed are lethal afflictions and stuff that will somehow permanently alter your life if left untreated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on October 08, 2020, 11:41:03 PM
It's obvious some people think this is the plague and others see it as something to be cautious of and live there lives accordingly.

Questions still need to be answered. I personally don't believe the numbers, nor do I think covid is worse than other diseases we as a species already have to deal with.

Until I have real evidence that what what some of you think is true, I'll continue to live my life as normal as possible, understanding any consequences of my actions.

Having a healthy immune system and following a exercise, diet and sleep program to promote that is the first step IMO for anyone.

Know yourself, and take precautions where necessary.

I’ve had some interaction with an epidemiologist who has been heavily involved with tracking the spread of Covid where I am.
He is of the opinion  that herd immunity is the way to go and that an antibody testing regime will allow a semblance of normality to return and enable people to travel and get back to work.
He says that only a very small percentage of cases result in serious infection or death and for the vast majority ( above 99%) it’s only a mild infection.
He says that governments are being overly cautious and it’s time that they followed the science and not feelz.

I tend to agree with him.
I have been working with a virologist/scientist for the last 5 years who before covid, worked primarily with STD's/HIV viruses. His whole focus has been on covid since February of this year. 

He and I agree with the above.

From what I have heard with regard to the corona protocol in Russia/Moscow, Putin has basically had enough of the hysterics while Sobyanin is still in the "cautious" camp.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 09, 2020, 04:51:20 AM
As I noted, if we think there are people out there who have not been counted as infected there are also people who died without having been tested or even diagnosed.

Thus both sides tend to balance out.

How about you tell me a number based on published, primary data, for people who die of Covid-19 or have ruined lives as a result of infection.

Where's your comfort zone, a number that you are happy to tell Boris Johnson, should die in order to make your life more convenient?

You see there's stuff we know and stuff we don't know. We know that some deaths and ruined lives are unavoidable. You're saying that more deaths and more ruined lives than might be expected under current strategy is acceptable. But everything other than what we know is a guess.

So, I am curious. How many people are you happy to assume the responsibility to kill?

We both agreed earlier that neither of us are speaking to a country from a political position. Neither of us are seeking to be re-elected as a career politician and I wont be assuming any responsibility when it comes to 'killing' others but I can speak freely with unpopular opinions because I'm merely having a discussion on a forum.

I read, I listen, I think and then I make conscious decisions based on what I see as appropriate given the circumstances. The priority has been skewed in an extreme manner to protect a tiny minority and I feel that a new approach has to be considered if we're going to evolve with the virus. What we are doing now isn't helping the majority and its likely to make our lives much worse, the longer this continues.

When it comes to data, well numbers are all over the place. Headlines pick the ones they want and it sorta becomes fact for many. Today the Scotsman newspaper published an article saying that the silent transmission is causing havoc where people who don't feel ill are infecting others. The data from the study said that 80% of people with coronavirus in the UK display no symptoms.

I took a very different message from that article. We now know that at least 80% of people who get coronavirus don't even get symptoms. In fact its a virus so bad that you need to get tested to know that you have it. You are then tested by a method that can allegedly give the wrong result in up to 93 out of 100 tests. Given some figures being quoted with authority, we can work out that the virus has a 99.7% survival rate. Meanwhile our economy crumbles and deaths surge in all other areas because its not a priority.

Throw into the mix, that the majority of people being tested in the UK at the moment, are people who have symptoms. Logic tells me that they're more likely to find the virus within that group, which gives us exaggerated numbers.....testing isn't being carried out organically. Testing for dementia in old folks homes would provide an alarming statistic but it would be silly to shut the country down because testing suggests that we're all getting dementia!!

I'm sorry but there are people really struggling out there with a wide spectrum of challenges and right now, they've been thrown to the bottom of the pile because of the virus. A virus that is currently just 24th in the league of biggest killers in the UK but given 100% priority.

I'm not saying I'm right but I am saying that what we're currently doing is wrong and at this rate we'll all be f*cked in the next year or two anyway. There is no singular correct way and with each strategy there will be winners and losers. Some would claim that I'm looking to sacrifice the tiny minority for my own benefit but I'd suggest that currently, the huge majority are being sacrificed so politicians don't have to talk about a few old/ill people dying WITH Covid.

Shield and provide for the weak and the rest of us can get on with life.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 09, 2020, 05:57:37 AM
I agree with all that.

Mask hysteria is something becoming very tedious. We are told everyone in retail environment should wear them, even though the flimsy blue ones are proven to be close to useless. Most people seem to wear them like a chin nappy anyway.

I have a retail space, nobody wears one by choice and we don't enforce it on customers.

Some places are loving playing mask police. I went to a car spares shop yesterday for something. The door was locked and festooned with Covid related notices: One person at a time, masks obligatory, hand gel obligatory, etc. The bloke opens the door and says, "you need a mask to come in here". Even though he didn't have one on. "Well I don't have one with me" I say, shrug and walk off. The bloke chases me up the street to serve me.  :chuckle:

Normality needs to resume. Certainly in sales, you need to see the customers face, read the body language. You cant do that if you are both muzzled like dogs.

I went in a pub the other night with a pal. I don't often go to pubs and I wont be rushing back. A mask to get in, you can only take it off when seated. If you go to the bathroom, mask back on, back off when you are seated. Table service only. Daft really. No wonder the place was half empty. Who can be bothered with all that?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 09, 2020, 07:03:17 AM
Rosco (and others) you are not a politician, you are not leading the country. However, at the point at which you tell them that you want more people to die or live unhealthy painful lives then you cannot escape responsibility.

That's why I asked you for a number that was OK with you.

Clearly that doesn't sit well with you. I get that! Of course it doesn't. But if you are unwilling to say that you are OK for more people to die then you don't also get to say that more people should die!

Oh, as has been stated many, many times, this is not just about deaths - although unfettered, there will be plenty of those! It is about they way that millions more people will live painful, unhealthy lives.

Now, if we are saying that 'vulnerable' people should be locked up. How many of those vulnerable people? For how long? What is the definition of vulnerable? How many people are you willing to commit to an indeterminate period of house arrest?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 09, 2020, 12:04:20 PM
Mask hysteria is something becoming very tedious. We are told everyone in retail environment should wear them, even though the flimsy blue ones are proven to be close to useless. Most people seem to wear them like a chin nappy anyway.

I agree with that but I do think that the right mask would help. I've personally profited by selling anti viral/microbal 3 layer masks to both wholesale partners and direct online consumers. I wear a mask and it's a good one that's technical at £15 retail. When I see some other bugger puller a nylon snood over their face to tick the box I genuinely think, what's the point?

It covers the face but it doesn't stop the virus going in or out. Its a political facade otherwise we would be told to do stuff with the proper equipment.

Last night the pubs closed at 10pm on the dot and Scotland were playing Israel in a European cup qualifier. It went to extra time and penalties but the nations fans got chucked out the pub 10 minutes before penalties. Thousands then watched the final minutes outside through the window in the cold. Covid rules were put in place to keep us safe yet the same pubs opened at 11am the next day to god knows who. That wasn't science, that was politics and thousands of Scotland fans watched the final minutes through a pub window for nothing.

Total farce.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 09, 2020, 12:12:28 PM
Rosco (and others) you are not a politician, you are not leading the country. However, at the point at which you tell them that you want more people to die or live unhealthy painful lives then you cannot escape responsibility.

That's why I asked you for a number that was OK with you.

Clearly that doesn't sit well with you. I get that! Of course it doesn't. But if you are unwilling to say that you are OK for more people to die then you don't also get to say that more people should die!

Oh, as has been stated many, many times, this is not just about deaths - although unfettered, there will be plenty of those! It is about they way that millions more people will live painful, unhealthy lives.

Now, if we are saying that 'vulnerable' people should be locked up. How many of those vulnerable people? For how long? What is the definition of vulnerable? How many people are you willing to commit to an indeterminate period of house arrest?

There is no number that is ok but a number from one group is not better than a number from another. That's my point.

Nobody should be dying in this but that expectation isn't realistic. I'm just not comfortable with people needlessly dying from a larger group than those who have been given priority, because covid is top of the political capability barometer.

My opinion of course.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 09, 2020, 05:03:07 PM
I've personally profited by selling anti viral/microbal 3 layer masks to both wholesale partners and direct online consumers.

If you can use any KN95s, I’ve some left, a few hundred maybe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 10, 2020, 03:27:11 AM
the upside to this virus is nobody has dies from the flu, old age or almost anything else you can think of.
in the last 6-8 months. Those numbers are none existent.
So covid seems to kill a fair amount of people, but cures many other things.

An older man was in a car accident last week and died, he was checked over and tested, he had covid,
death certificate was noted died of covid 19, make you wonder if there is anyway to know the real numbers?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 10, 2020, 03:30:39 AM
Rosco (and others) you are not a politician, you are not leading the country. However, at the point at which you tell them that you want more people to die or live unhealthy painful lives then you cannot escape responsibility.

That's why I asked you for a number that was OK with you.

Clearly that doesn't sit well with you. I get that! Of course it doesn't. But if you are unwilling to say that you are OK for more people to die then you don't also get to say that more people should die!

Oh, as has been stated many, many times, this is not just about deaths - although unfettered, there will be plenty of those! It is about they way that millions more people will live painful, unhealthy lives.

Now, if we are saying that 'vulnerable' people should be locked up. How many of those vulnerable people? For how long? What is the definition of vulnerable? How many people are you willing to commit to an indeterminate period of house arrest?

So you don't like confining the 10-20% Of The weak and sick, but its ok to confine the 80% of the heathly and productive folks?
How do you honestly decide? Would it not make more sense to open things up with some realistic rules and let each decide for themselves? Or do we prefer the controlled, told what to do method? Where does that lead us in the future as a so called
free society? More questions than answers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on October 10, 2020, 08:07:52 AM
Ok Lockdown version 2 on  the way..last month in the UK it was "East out and help out" They changed that slightly to "East out and f**** Off"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on October 11, 2020, 01:44:16 PM
Major vaccine have been tested on ten of thousands of people and have not hurt any body. It is time to start giving out the vaccine to high risk people and health care workers. We do not know they exact number of lives it will save but we know it will really help reduce infections. Trump can not do it because of the Democrats. I am not sure why the rest of Europe is not doing that. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on October 11, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
Major vaccine have been tested on ten of thousands of people and have not hurt any body. It is time to start giving out the vaccine to high risk people and health care workers. We do not know they exact number of lives it will save but we know it will really help reduce infections. Trump can not do it because of the Democrats. I am not sure why the rest of Europe is not doing that.
Can you link any references to the trial you’ve mentioned.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 12, 2020, 03:33:32 AM
Major vaccine have been tested on ten of thousands of people and have not hurt any body. It is time to start giving out the vaccine to high risk people and health care workers. We do not know they exact number of lives it will save but we know it will really help reduce infections. Trump can not do it because of the Democrats. I am not sure why the rest of Europe is not doing that.

Didn't you just criticise Russia/Putin for doing the same thing, claiming that the testing wasn't sufficient for mass inoculation? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 12, 2020, 03:49:48 AM
Here's a covid stat for a Monday.

The average age of those who have died from coronavirus in England and Wales is 82 years old.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

The average life expectancy in England and Wales is 81 years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040159/life-expectancy-united-kingdom-all-time/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 12, 2020, 09:23:48 AM
Here's a covid stat for a Monday.

The average age of those who have died from coronavirus in England and Wales is 82 years old.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

The average life expectancy in England and Wales is 81 years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040159/life-expectancy-united-kingdom-all-time/

Are you trying to say those with covid are living a year longer  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on October 12, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
Major vaccine have been tested on ten of thousands of people and have not hurt any body. It is time to start giving out the vaccine to high risk people and health care workers. We do not know they exact number of lives it will save but we know it will really help reduce infections. Trump can not do it because of the Democrats. I am not sure why the rest of Europe is not doing that.

Didn't you just criticise Russia/Putin for doing the same thing, claiming that the testing wasn't sufficient for mass inoculation?

Yea then they only tested it on few hundred people. Now this stuff has been tested on tens of thousands. Then Russia changed what it was doing and did very good responsible thing. They only used it on high risk people while the get more testing data together. We need to start to use in only on high risk people while we get more data together. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 12, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Here's a covid stat for a Monday.

The average age of those who have died from coronavirus in England and Wales is 82 years old.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

The average life expectancy in England and Wales is 81 years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040159/life-expectancy-united-kingdom-all-time/

Are you trying to say those with covid are living a year longer  :ROFL:

Yea. Let it rip and we’ll all win an extra year!! :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on October 12, 2020, 01:54:08 PM
Major vaccine have been tested on ten of thousands of people and have not hurt any body. It is time to start giving out the vaccine to high risk people and health care workers. We do not know they exact number of lives it will save but we know it will really help reduce infections. Trump can not do it because of the Democrats. I am not sure why the rest of Europe is not doing that.

Didn't you just criticise Russia/Putin for doing the same thing, claiming that the testing wasn't sufficient for mass inoculation?

Yea then they only tested it on few hundred people. Now this stuff has been tested on tens of thousands. Then Russia changed what it was doing and did very good responsible thing. They only used it on high risk people while the get more testing data together. We need to start to use in only on high risk people while we get more data together.
Which country has tested such a vaccine on so many people
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on October 12, 2020, 02:08:16 PM
Russia is currently testing sputnik vaccine on 40-60,000 volunteers aged from 18-60yrs old, approx some 6,000 have already been vaccinated in this ongoing test, so far, there have been no reported side effects.                                                                                          Further tests of sputnik v are also being carried out on volunteers in The Philippine's, Venezuela, Israel amongst them.                           Russia is also testing a different vaccine for persons over 60 yrs old, already some 500 persons in the age group have been vaccinated with no reports to date of any serious side effects.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 14, 2020, 09:55:27 AM
Wifey's parents were told by their local doctors surgery it is available to buy now, but it's quite expensive still. I wasn't aware it was being officially sold and suggested they might be selling fake vaccines which are just saline or something.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on October 14, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
There is a course of tablets available OTC, costing 12,000r, their doctor may have referred them, no registered vaccine is on sale as of yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 14, 2020, 01:51:58 PM
Gipsy, IIRC, there's a course of treatment available, over there. Would that be the tablets?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on October 15, 2020, 12:05:12 AM
To my knowledge, Yes
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on October 15, 2020, 03:10:14 AM
By the end of the year they will have to re print the Oxford dictionary with all the new words they created... 'circuit breaker' lockdown.  Love that one!!

Tier 1  Tier 2 and Tier 3 lockdown.. :laugh:

Social distancing... Rule of 6 ..Going to need a whole new edition!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 16, 2020, 06:34:42 PM
Majority of Americans would rather risk a Covid death rather than be lectured by celebrities.

https://babylonbee.com/news/majority-of-americans-would-rather-risk-covid-death-than-endure-any-more-skype-lectures-from-celebrities
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 16, 2020, 10:04:30 PM

The only current drug the FDA approves for emergency treatment right now is Remdesivir which was administered to Trump. A 30 country study involving 11,000 people has concluded and Remdesivir has shown no benefit to saving lives. There has never been a treatment created for any coronavirus in history and there still isn't. I doubt the vaccines will be successful but due to public pressure, they will be released and work will continue to find something better.


http://www.foxnews.com/health/four-coronavirus-treatments-remdesivir-hydroxychloroquine-flop-who-study
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on October 20, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
The second wave is becoming real.

Pacing the EU’s second wave, Ukraine’s daily new infections tripled since Sept. 1, hitting 6,410 Saturday. As measured by infections per 1 million inhabitants, Ukraine, with its estimated population of 37.3 million, has an infection level of 8,140. In the region, that is half the infection rates of Moldova and the Czech Republic, according to the Worldometer tracking site. Ukraine is also below Romania – 9,524 – and Russia – 9,697. But Ukraine’s infection rate is far worse than Poland – 4,843 – and Hungary -- 4,949.

Worsening Ukraine’s bleak demographic situation, marriages have dropped by 27% during the pandemic, RFE/RL reports, citing Justice Ministry figures. From March 12 to Oct. 10, marriages dropped by 38,786 yoy. The 2020 figure was 107,069, far below the 145,855 recorded during the same time last year.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 21, 2020, 03:21:41 AM
Manchester’s intensive care units are running close to capacity — but that is nothing new

https://inews.co.uk/news/analysis/manchester-intensive-care-beds-tier-3-restrictions-analysis-730414

The worrying headlines currently being pumped out across the UK, on top of the general feeling that a 'second wave' is upon us and doom and gloom imminent, makes me feel like another lockdown is on the way. I of course assume that others more intelligent and well versed in virology and the NHS will be making decisions based on information I'm simply not privy to.

That said, throughout this whole episode, I've found that doing a bit of reading and digging through the official stats gives some kind of light relief. I discussed Sweden long ago and some people continue to point at misleading headlines and claim that their stagey was a compete failure and the loss of life has been horrific. However when we dig into the stats, number of deaths compared to population, deaths by age, deaths by health, yearly death rate comparisons etc it kinda looks to be blown out of proportion.

I've always maintained that proportionality and data often waters down a headline significantly.

So now we're hearing that intensive care beds are running close to saturation and the covid second wave will crush us unless we shut down & put our lives on hold again for a few months. Then I read articles like the one linked above and we're told that the current 82% occupancy in Manchester isn't all covid patients and the levels are identical to what they were this time last year. Yes this could change quickly and yes we may have additional covid patients to cater for on top of what we had last year.....maybe.

"As a spokesman for the NHS in Greater Manchester said, it is not unusual for 80-85 per cent of ICU beds to be in use at this time of year and hospitals are working together to ensure the best care for patients who need the high level of support ICU provides, both for Covid and for other reasons."

I just find that our opinews providers are disingenuous and love to stoke the flames and cause panic. Where were these headlines last year when nobody had heard of covid-19 and ICU was in exactly the same position?

In short, I think we need to dig through the stats before reading an emotional headline and forming an opinion. A rule in life I guess. On a more positive note;

"Dr Alison Pittard, dean of the Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine described the rise as a “slow burn” as opposed to a second wave, pointing out that intensive care unit (ICU) patients also have a much better chance of survival now thanks to improvements in treatment."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 21, 2020, 03:29:51 AM
Alison Pittard is, I am sure, spot on.

We have to learn how to live with this thing.

I was watching a video on YouTube that startled me. It seems that California, over in Cowboyland, has now lost over one third of all small businesses, rising to over half in San Francisco.

I truly hope that the UK is not in such a poor situation. That's got to be truly scary.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 21, 2020, 03:32:34 AM
Ukrainian Influencer Dmitriy Stuzhuk dies from COVID-19 after denying its existence

https://news.sky.com/story/influencer-dmitriy-stuzhuk-dies-from-covid-19-after-denying-its-existence-12107174

Another sad story which initially makes one panic before doing some digging. It turns out he had a pre-exisitng heart/cardiovascular condition, had been pumping himself full of steroids to look good on camera and discharged himself from hospital.

If he had died from his heart condition without covid, it would have been another tale similar to the many young athletes & professional sportsmen who suddenly drop dead every year. Instead we're force fed headlines from every angle that a seemingly healthy strong man who was a denier, was killed by covid.

The water is muddy I tell ya.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 21, 2020, 03:45:43 AM
Alison Pittard is, I am sure, spot on.

We have to learn how to live with this thing.

I was watching a video on YouTube that startled me. It seems that California, over in Cowboyland, has now lost over one third of all small businesses, rising to over half in San Francisco.

I truly hope that the UK is not in such a poor situation. That's got to be truly scary.

I had this conversation yesterday with a customer of mine.

Before we had heard of covid-19, small independent retailers were dying, the high street was trashed, out of town shopping centres filled with outlets or own brand retailers and the internet was flying.

Today the importance of the internet has been propelled 5-10 years down the road in the space of 6 months, out of town shopping locations and stores with lots of staff and large square meterage are on their knees, the high street is still crap but the independents and specialists appear to be enjoying very strong trading times. A real boost considering where they were.

I hope this continues because not only is it good for me and my business but I think the consumer gets a better service through a good Indy than they would from a soulless giant who's USP's are price and ease of parking. Long may this trend continue.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 21, 2020, 04:14:08 AM
Yes, I can only speak personally for a very small subset of businesses on several highstreets in one county. However, all those tenants are open, paying rent, employing people and serving customers.

The sole delinquent tenant was a large, national business, the largest of its type in the country. When they stopped paying the rent I'd expected the worst. Nope, they've paid their arrears, reopened and are trading.

My guess is that this disease has provided some business owners with the excuse they needed to shut up shop without loss of face. Some of those, perhaps most, have trousered cash from local and national government sources that has enabled them to close without immediately having no money on which to live.

In no way do I minimise the effects of the plague upon business - I was badly affected but I was able to capitalise upon changes wrought by the virus. My client base has changed significantly and I expect that, with some hard work, the year will end with revenues similar to 2019 and prospects for a very good 2021.

From what I saw of the California situation, the problems spring from political issues that made the business environment very tough for small businesses in the state. Poor management by the federal and state government during 2020 seems to have tipped the scale against those businesses.

On the upside, at least one California based tech company is well enough off to be taking on my services for the next few months. Now I have to learn to work with Zoom!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 21, 2020, 04:27:02 AM
Now I have to learn to work with Zoom!

Just be mindful of your camera/microphone settings. Moby claims to have a global business operation and I do hope he doesn't confuse calls with his wife with that of his empire. Some yank got caught out this week....... :chuckle:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epdgm4/new-yorker-suspends-jeffrey-toobin-for-zoom-dick-incident

The New Yorker has suspended reporter Jeffrey Toobin for masturbating on a Zoom video chat between members of the New Yorker and WNYC radio last week. Toobin says he did not realize his video was on.

“I made an embarrassingly stupid mistake, believing I was off-camera. I apologize to my wife, family, friends and co-workers,” Toobin told Motherboard.

“I believed I was not visible on Zoom. I thought no one on the Zoom call could see me. I thought I had muted the Zoom video,” he added.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 21, 2020, 05:15:01 AM
Before we had heard of covid-19, small independent retailers were dying, the high street was trashed, out of town shopping centres filled with outlets or own brand retailers and the internet was flying.

Today the importance of the internet has been propelled 5-10 years down the road in the space of 6 months, out of town shopping locations and stores with lots of staff and large square meterage are on their knees, the high street is still crap but the independents and specialists appear to be enjoying very strong trading times. A real boost considering where they were.

I hope this continues because not only is it good for me and my business but I think the consumer gets a better service through a good Indy than they would from a soulless giant who's USP's are price and ease of parking. Long may this trend continue.

I agree with all that.  :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 21, 2020, 05:25:50 AM
Don't worry, I have not installed it on my desktop machine just on my phone.

If I were daft enough to be bashing the bishop the phone would not be able to see anything. Perhaps hear a huh, huh, huh.... oooooh!

TBH, I don't really like video meetings. I have used Skype for that job and I liked that my setup lets me drop in backgrounds so I can look like I am sitting by my pool but I am not comfortable overall with it.

And whoops, the new outfit - not Californian but East Coast Boston. perhaps Cuffy has shared a cigar in one of his favoured sports bars.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 21, 2020, 11:18:56 AM
Now I have to learn to work with Zoom!

Just be mindful of your camera/microphone settings. Moby claims to have a global business operation and I do hope he doesn't confuse calls with his wife with that of his empire. Some yank got caught out this week....... :chuckle:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epdgm4/new-yorker-suspends-jeffrey-toobin-for-zoom-dick-incident

The New Yorker has suspended reporter Jeffrey Toobin for masturbating on a Zoom video chat between members of the New Yorker and WNYC radio last week. Toobin says he did not realize his video was on.

“I made an embarrassingly stupid mistake, believing I was off-camera. I apologize to my wife, family, friends and co-workers,” Toobin told Motherboard.

“I believed I was not visible on Zoom. I thought no one on the Zoom call could see me. I thought I had muted the Zoom video,” he added.


He's a legal analyst for CNN.

Seems he must have some sort of addiction.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 21, 2020, 11:52:19 AM
Its interesting reading the same things I see here.
Reporting on covid seems to very skewed and creates fear,
which then pushes population to ask govenment to control everything.

Numbers now are so inaccurate based on how they report.
As more reports come out people who are dying from covid
were almost always dying from something else or so high risk
that many infections could have killed them.

I still beleive we should be careful but learning to live with this is key,
this does not just affect small business, big business is laying off,
and spin offs which are hard to tally are massive.

Un-employment in this country went from 5.8 % to 13.7%
many of these jobs to never return, how and who pays for this.
Government will force increased inflation to help increase tax revenue,
so adds up to working folks paying again,

Me personally had a amazing summer as with any work outside.
its been very busy here for any level of construction
or outside based business.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 21, 2020, 01:39:35 PM
The liberal press continue to accuse Sweden of atrocities and consider it a disaster zone, yet its one of the few European countries currently on the UK Government approved travel corridor. i.e. its safe to visit and return without quarantining. Facts are funny things.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-corridors
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 21, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
In Canada the two largest internet / phone / cable / satellite companies
Rogers and Bell, reported 40% increase in sales over last 2 quarters.

they control 85% of radio, TV and Internet. hmm I wonder what narrative suits them??
Make you wonder as more and more facts leak out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 21, 2020, 11:58:39 PM
In Canada the two largest internet / phone / cable / satellite companies
Rogers and Bell, reported 40% increase in sales over last 2 quarters.

they control 85% of radio, TV and Internet. hmm I wonder what narrative suits them??
Make you wonder as more and more facts leak out.

Some people are massive lockdown fans. I understand that we need make sure our health care doesn't get swamped but I do wonder why others appear to get damp gussets at the prospect of a lockdown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 22, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
Looks like wifey’s parents in Russia have just had it.

As with many Russians, social distancing wasn’t a thing. They were socialising as normal. These are pensioners, so the category of people we are told to expect will drop off the twig at a moment’s notice if they catch it.

We heard about a week ago both were poorly, no taste, high temperature, feeling weak, etc. I immediately put the feelers out to get them the medication that’s available in Russia, but before I was able to source any, within a few days their temperature returned to normal. They are still a bit weak but well on the mend now.

If their experience is typical, there seems little to justify much more than common sense and slow herd immunity. Draconian lockdowns clearly have other agendas.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 22, 2020, 12:33:13 AM
Facemasks don't work? Apparently they're not required in Denmark, which has a very low death rate.

Quote

“From a medical point of view, there is no evidence of a medical effect of wearing face masks, so we decided not to impose a national obligation,” said Medical Care Minister Tamara van Ark."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/europe-top-health-officials-say-masks-arent-helpful-beating-covid-19/5720652
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 22, 2020, 12:41:00 AM
The real purpose of masks is to foster fear.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/primary-purpose-mandatory-masking-foster-fear-say-acclaimed-researchers/5726651?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 22, 2020, 02:19:45 AM
Facemasks don't work? Apparently they're not required in Denmark, which has a very low death rate.

Quote

“From a medical point of view, there is no evidence of a medical effect of wearing face masks, so we decided not to impose a national obligation,” said Medical Care Minister Tamara van Ark."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/europe-top-health-officials-say-masks-arent-helpful-beating-covid-19/5720652

If face masks aren't helping on a medical level, then why/oh/why are doctors, surgeons, dentists, etc been using them for ages and not just since covid started.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 22, 2020, 02:40:36 AM
Looks like wifey’s parents in Russia have just had it.

As with many Russians, social distancing wasn’t a thing. They were socialising as normal. These are pensioners, so the category of people we are told to expect will drop off the twig at a moment’s notice if they catch it.

We heard about a week ago both were poorly, no taste, high temperature, feeling weak, etc. I immediately put the feelers out to get them the medication that’s available in Russia, but before I was able to source any, within a few days their temperature returned to normal. They are still a bit weak but well on the mend now.

If their experience is typical, there seems little to justify much more than common sense and slow herd immunity. Draconian lockdowns clearly have other agendas.

I still believe that we're destroying the lives for almost everyone in order to give those who's time is essentially up, a few more days/weeks/months to live. It's not about being a heartless b@stard but why wreck the lives of 99% of the population when we could just shield the 1%??

There are now more people dying from other causes because of the Covid priority but all of a sudden that seems to be an acceptable loss.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 22, 2020, 02:48:27 AM
The real purpose of masks is to foster fear.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/primary-purpose-mandatory-masking-foster-fear-say-acclaimed-researchers/5726651?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

Not sure I agree with that. Wearing a proper facemask (filtering system, quick drying, anti viral & re-usable) is a pretty sensible thing to do at the moment along with social distancing and washing our hands regularly. It's better than the doing nothing option and will slow the spread of the virus.

I've linked our website to show you what ones we sell just FYI. Feel free to take it down if it violates the T's & C's because advertising for sales isn't my intention....  :thumbsup:

www.glengo.co.uk

The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people? Until we know more I'm happy to do the above in high traffic areas.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 22, 2020, 06:26:17 AM
The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people?

A number of posters as I recall, myself, Danchik and perhaps others have noted that one can smoke cigarettes and consume liquor. These products kill people. But we accept them and the resulting loss of life with what I consider flimsy moral arguments.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 22, 2020, 08:39:18 AM
The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people?

A number of posters as I recall, myself, Danchik and perhaps others have noted that one can smoke cigarettes and consume liquor. These products kill people. But we accept them and the resulting loss of life with what I consider flimsy moral arguments.

But one of the biggest differences there is that Cigs/Alcohol just kill the (ab)user , they do usually not affect other people. And when they do, thats also banned (drunk driving). Covid however can affect other people just as easily if you flaunt the rules.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 22, 2020, 09:21:02 AM
The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people?

A number of posters as I recall, myself, Danchik and perhaps others have noted that one can smoke cigarettes and consume liquor. These products kill people. But we accept them and the resulting loss of life with what I consider flimsy moral arguments.

But one of the biggest differences there is that Cigs/Alcohol just kill the (ab)user , they do usually not affect other people. And when they do, thats also banned (drunk driving). Covid however can affect other people just as easily if you flaunt the rules.

That's true and they're not the same thing but I bet my bottom dollar that some working class kids have parents and visitors, smoking like chimneys in their homes. The kids breathe in the second hand smoke but this cant be controlled at the point of sale.

I guess the point we're making is that covid isn't black or white, as it seemed to be in March. There's a grey patch emerging when it comes to policy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 22, 2020, 09:25:27 AM
Another difference that some people can't see (1how is it possible?). Somebody infects the next Covid-19 victim. Unlike smoothing or drinking which are self inflicted, if I get covid-19 it's because somebody chose to put me in harm's way.

The only way I can avoid the harm you want inflict on me is  to reduce my liberty and quality of life significantly in order that you might have a slight, tiny improvement.

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 22, 2020, 09:58:42 AM
Another difference that some people can't see (1how is it possible?). Somebody infects the next Covid-19 victim. Unlike smoothing or drinking which are self inflicted, if I get covid-19 it's because somebody chose to put me in harm's way.

The only way I can avoid the harm you want inflict on me is  to reduce my liberty and quality of life significantly in order that you might have a slight, tiny improvement.

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

On the other hand: If you feel so at risk from what is for most a minor infection, and one that half of people have no symptoms, shouldn't you choose to self isolate rather than inflict masks on others to suit you?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on October 22, 2020, 10:04:05 AM
The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people? Until we know more I'm happy to do the above in high traffic areas.
My understanding is that if all parties involved in close contact are wearing a mask, then they are effective.

The other issue is time around an infected person, i.e. viral load. Per my virologist friend, viral load is important also as one needs to be around an infected person for at least 20-30 minutes to his critical mass.


The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people?

A number of posters as I recall, myself, Danchik and perhaps others have noted that one can smoke cigarettes and consume liquor. These products kill people. But we accept them and the resulting loss of life with what I consider flimsy moral arguments.

But one of the biggest differences there is that Cigs/Alcohol just kill the (ab)user , they do usually not affect other people. And when they do, thats also banned (drunk driving). Covid however can affect other people just as easily if you flaunt the rules.
Second hand smoke and drunk driving?

Also alcohol has destroyed many lives and families indirectly though loss of work, mental and physical abuse, among other liabilities. Yes, there's a difference in the methodology, but the outcome is the same. It doesn't just affect the user.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 22, 2020, 10:26:44 AM
Another difference that some people can't see (1how is it possible?). Somebody infects the next Covid-19 victim. Unlike smoothing or drinking which are self inflicted, if I get covid-19 it's because somebody chose to put me in harm's way.

The only way I can avoid the harm you want inflict on me is  to reduce my liberty and quality of life significantly in order that you might have a slight, tiny improvement.

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

So hypothetically you're in the tiny minority of people who are at risk but the actions of others mean that your quality of life is lower and your liberty has been significantly reduced.

And the answer is to reduce the liberty and quality of life for everyone i.e. the other 99%? That doesn't seem rational or fair to me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 22, 2020, 01:06:15 PM
Another difference that some people can't see (1how is it possible?). Somebody infects the next Covid-19 victim. Unlike smoothing or drinking which are self inflicted, if I get covid-19 it's because somebody chose to put me in harm's way.

The only way I can avoid the harm you want inflict on me is  to reduce my liberty and quality of life significantly in order that you might have a slight, tiny improvement.

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.
So you prefer everyone else suffer so you may not? Like all things in life, if you are at high risk, then you
need to take precautions, don't rely on others to determine you fate.

Like those that are allergic to peanut butter, with your theory, we should ban it and same with nuts, I could give
you a 1000 examples of things we as society accept that affect other people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 22, 2020, 01:07:53 PM
The real purpose of masks is to foster fear.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/primary-purpose-mandatory-masking-foster-fear-say-acclaimed-researchers/5726651?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

Not sure I agree with that. Wearing a proper facemask (filtering system, quick drying, anti viral & re-usable) is a pretty sensible thing to do at the moment along with social distancing and washing our hands regularly. It's better than the doing nothing option and will slow the spread of the virus.

I've linked our website to show you what ones we sell just FYI. Feel free to take it down if it violates the T's & C's because advertising for sales isn't my intention....  :thumbsup:

www.glengo.co.uk

The bigger question is how bad is the virus and where's the acceptable cut off point in terms of measures designed to protect the low percentage of vulnerable people? Until we know more I'm happy to do the above in high traffic areas.

If masks work, then how is it that Denmark has the lowest death rate of European countries yet they have not been wearing face masks?

Quote

"COVID-19 death rates in the world. As of August 4, the Danes have suffered 616 COVID-19 deaths, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University.

That’s less than one-third of the number of Danes who die from pneumonia or influenza in a given year.

Despite this success, Danish leaders recently found themselves on the defensive. The reason is that Danes aren’t wearing face masks, and local authorities for the most part aren’t even recommending them."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/europe-top-health-officials-say-masks-arent-helpful-beating-covid-19/5720652

BTW nice website with great looking coats. Wish I could walk into your store and purchase a few.

Just curious, is the excess legalise required of a website in the UK? That was the only odd thing about your site. Everything else was very streamlined.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 22, 2020, 01:16:18 PM
Another difference that some people can't see (1how is it possible?). Somebody infects the next Covid-19 victim. Unlike smoothing or drinking which are self inflicted, if I get covid-19 it's because somebody chose to put me in harm's way.

The only way I can avoid the harm you want inflict on me is  to reduce my liberty and quality of life significantly in order that you might have a slight, tiny improvement.

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

On the other hand: If you feel so at risk from what is for most a minor infection, and one that half of people have no symptoms, shouldn't you choose to self isolate rather than inflict masks on others to suit you?

Exactly!

I think perhaps Ted Nugent said it the best.

Quote

“Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home…. y𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made-up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 Get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal.

I’m done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I’m not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I’m no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I’m not wearing a mask and I’m not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I’m not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it’s not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it’s because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick."

https://m.facebook.com/tednugent/posts/10157423794732297
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 22, 2020, 02:15:34 PM

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

If masks actually worked it wouldn't matter that others didn't wear one as long as you do, no?

Masks have been worn by professionals for decades pre-covid to protect them from splatter. Worn usually than a few minutes or the duration of a procedure. Even the most effective masks filter out at best 12% of the airborne particles. Cloth masks are completely ineffective and is likely a negative in filtering. Masks will not protect you and others wearing masks will not protect you from covid.

If you want protection from covid stay home, wear a gas mask and a hazmat suit and evemn then, change and clean them regularly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on October 22, 2020, 11:03:34 PM
I still believe that we're destroying the lives for almost everyone in order to give those who's time is essentially up, a few more days/weeks/months to live. It's not about being a heartless b@stard but why wreck the lives of 99% of the population when we could just shield the 1%??

There are now more people dying from other causes because of the Covid priority but all of a sudden that seems to be an acceptable loss.
Agreed 100 percent, I read the other day that there were over 26 million less GP appointments than the same period last year, how this can’t be seen as anything less than an outrage is beyond comprehension - where possible a GP will diagnose via a photo sent by email. A process already experienced by our family.

Dentists in our area are only carrying out absolutely essential treatment with no light at the end of tunnel.

Coupled with this we are now going to start pouring money into the bottomless pit know as the hospitality industry that has been all but destroyed anyway by this bollocks, even without current higher restrictions they will get no Christmas party boom which many bank on as their yearly pay day.

Massive job losses and a country heading back to the Stone Age at this rate.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on October 22, 2020, 11:30:37 PM
If you want protection from covid stay home, wear a gas mask and a hazmat suit and evemn then, change and clean them regularly.
Correct, relying on the general public to do the right thing to save you is flawed at best.

Example, we were at the belfry (large golf club) yesterday evening and the Leeds United football team arrived with entourage - as is standard now all hotel staff and patrons walk around public areas with face coverings, however as we left I saw 3 players walking around without - before anybody asks they were indeed heavily tanned members of the squad.

Unless everybody tows the line this thing doesn’t work, I would expect further push-back on this over the winter months as patience amongst the average Brit just wears out. Christmas is the likely breaking point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on October 22, 2020, 11:40:16 PM
Employment, localised view;

Our company had a mainland uk external sales team of 8 on 23 March, it’s now 5. While business is currently booming, its artificial and will inevitably fall off a cliff early next year.

The way external sales in our market operates post 23 March is completely different, more time on the phone much less time on the road, the role as it was has essentially ceased to exist. Upshot, the likely outcome will be a further reduction to a maximum of 3 by end of year, March at latest. 2021/22 will see more office/home based bdm roles with considerably less expensive field sales reps, changes are already slowly taking place.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on October 23, 2020, 01:49:39 AM
Nice to see you back Bruce.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 23, 2020, 03:09:01 AM
I think perhaps Ted Nugent said it the best.

Quote

“Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home…. y𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made-up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 Get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal.

I’m done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I’m not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I’m no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I’m not wearing a mask and I’m not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I’m not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it’s not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it’s because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick."

https://m.facebook.com/tednugent/posts/10157423794732297
Ted Nugent is an anti-social asshole. You're not doing social distancing for yourself, you're not wearing masks for yourself.

You're wearing them for others. Those whom will surely die if they catch corona.
Plus there are side-effects that aren't lethal but are still grave.

- Lung damage (permanent)
- Heart Damage (you can literally drop dead if you excercise. And whats worse, you can have this without ever having symptoms of covid itself!!!!!)
- Brain damage (permanent)

However, the numbers of the above are not yet set in stone. The heart-damage does appear to be 86% of all people that contracted covid (symptoms or not!)

The quote below is from a registered nurse at a hospital close to me. Also my niece.
Translated from dutch by me, but its power is not less because of it.

Quote from: My family
Lets say you woke up with a terrible cough, high fever and a horrendous pain all over your body. You rush to your doctor and the result is unfortunately Covid19.
For the last 2 weeks, you weren't aware you were infected and thus you have not really obeyed the rules. You did organise a party with just a few friends for pizza and beer. There were a few people too many according to the rules. But you have 10 friends, why exclude half of them? (In NL you are allowed 3 visitors max). You were hugging your friends and family. You must've thought: I do not feel sick. I have the right to live my own normal life, nobody is telling me what to do. Pff those scaremongers. But then with the covid-diagnosis you are sitting on your couch at home feeling horrible. Trouble breathing, high fever , pain all over... but you are lucky. You're young and healthy and soon you will feel better. YOU LUCKY *snip*.
But...... your best friend also caught covid from you. He gave it to his 82-year old mum. and she had COPD and already was using a ventilator and heart-problems. She died because of covid.

Your collegue , whom has asthma, also got it from your little pizza-party. Now he is on intensive care, he also spread it to a few in his family. But they will not know until 2 weeks have passed.
The waitress of the restaurant where you picked up your pizza, also got covid19 from you and took it home to her husband. He has MS and thus uses immunosurpressants. They are now also hospitalized with trouble breathing.
They are also doing badly but cannot say goodbye to their loved ones. They must be intubated on a ventilator and kept in a coma but chance that they will recover is nil. They can die surrounded by machines instead of loved ones.

All this because you refused to follow the rules and ridiculed them. You cannot take the few minor changes in your life, because you had to change your routines for a few months. But because you above all, have the right to live your normal life, nobody i mean nobody has the right to tell you what to do!!!!!

#SocialDistancing = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#StayHome = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#GetTested = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#WearMasks = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 23, 2020, 06:00:00 AM
Thanks Mark!

It's back to responsibility! I know that taking responsibility is not fashionable. I know that taking responsibility is not easy enough for several generations of heavily coddled man-children,but there it is.

When you choose not to be responsible for your own responsibility you actually become responsible for the bad things that you can do for others.

Problem is,that unlike drunk driving, it is hard to link the cause of the dead or injured person to the cause. There's no penalty for the killer who spreads his virus to others who several weeks later die,or who now have lung,heart or brain damage as their lifelong companion.

Possibly worse still, the selfishness of generations of children in adult bodies causes the problem to hang around longer. By shirking their responsibility towards the society they share they enable the virus to find new hosts. These people who claim to be above shared responsibility because of its inconvenience are making the inconvenience worse and longer lasting!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 23, 2020, 09:51:05 AM
Thanks Mark!

It's back to responsibility! I know that taking responsibility is not fashionable. I know that taking responsibility is not easy enough for several generations of heavily coddled man-children,but there it is.

When you choose not to be responsible for your own responsibility you actually become responsible for the bad things that you can do for others.

Problem is,that unlike drunk driving, it is hard to link the cause of the dead or injured person to the cause. There's no penalty for the killer who spreads his virus to others who several weeks later die,or who now have lung,heart or brain damage as their lifelong companion.

Possibly worse still, the selfishness of generations of children in adult bodies causes the problem to hang around longer. By shirking their responsibility towards the society they share they enable the virus to find new hosts. These people who claim to be above shared responsibility because of its inconvenience are making the inconvenience worse and longer lasting!

There's the "S" word again, selfish. Are you willing to carry a firearm or a billy club to protect me should violence break out? Or, would you watch me be beaten or killed and not protect me? That is your responsibility, no? That is a fair comparison.

10 people inside a close room and everyone wears a mask, your mask is still only filtering 12% of what you breathe no matter if there are 10 or 100 folks in the room and all wearing masks, 12%. That's not considering the airborne particles that get caught in your eyes, ears or clothing for particles later to get in your open orafices when you're alone. The virus doesn't know or care if you are 6ft from the next person or 100ft. It doesn't measure distance and doesn't care if it was projected on you or it got caught in a draft, still room or high wind. It has no brain and it isn't even looking for a host. It's just there and you get caught up in it or you don't

I say all that to say this, the guidelines are based on junk science and designed on a whim to make you feel safe. Give you a warm fuzzy that you're doing something, anything about protecting yourself. My responsibility to be safe rests on me and me alone. Not you, not the state or the ever encroaching one world psyche government. It is an individual responsibility. Regardless, if you catch it or if you don't will not be your or anyone else's fault
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 23, 2020, 11:02:25 AM
People are loving this woman on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/1318937308297596928
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 23, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
People are loving this woman on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/1318937308297596928

Link didn't work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 23, 2020, 02:16:39 PM
10 people inside a close room and everyone wears a mask, your mask is still only filtering 12% of what you breathe
Do you know where that number comes from? I do actually, it is the amount of people correctly applying the mask.

A properly fitted mask has 95% efficiency and not 12%. But go on, prove me wrong, my information comes from the Erasmus medical university. Which is one of the elite schools of medicine in Netherlands capable of researching this shit.

Here's the source of 12% applying the mask correctly : https://www.scientias.nl/onderzoek-bewijst-de-meeste-mensen-kunnen-totaal-niet-omgaan-met-mondkapjes/

You can also easily determine yourself what you're buying as every mouthmask has an N-rating. So an N95 (the best quality) has an efficiency of 95% of all aerosols stopped.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 23, 2020, 02:19:02 PM
People are loving this woman on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/1318937308297596928

Link didn't work.

Okay, got it to work. She's got a few good points.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 23, 2020, 04:33:29 PM
From my standpoint it will always be a balancing act of doing the personal responsibility thing against what is best for the common good and general welfare. Much like a pendulum it has swung very far to an overprotective nanny mentality. The swing back that Bruce Lee alludes to will be extreme I fear.

Politicians rarely make good jugglers in my opinion. Though they excel at misrepresenting facts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 23, 2020, 09:31:35 PM
From my standpoint it will always be a balancing act of doing the personal responsibility thing against what is best for the common good and general welfare. Much like a pendulum it has swung very far to an overprotective nanny mentality. The swing back that Bruce Lee alludes to will be extreme I fear.

Politicians rarely make good jugglers in my opinion. Though they excel at misrepresenting facts.


+1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 23, 2020, 09:41:14 PM
Killer virus or common flu?

Quote

"One doctor, Dr Simone Gold, in LA, has used the metaphor that…trying to protect yourself from this virus with a face mask is like trying to use a chain link fence to keep out a mosquito. It’s a very apt analogy. It’s just as ridiculous. And the N.95 masks which are harder to penetrate are somewhat more effective but only as long as they fit your face very, very tightly, and with use the fit loosens and that opens up a pathway for the virus to enter."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-killer-virus-or-common-flu-2/5726852
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 23, 2020, 10:23:56 PM
Killer virus or common flu?

Quote

"One doctor, Dr Simone Gold, in LA, has used the metaphor that…trying to protect yourself from this virus with a face mask is like trying to use a chain link fence to keep out a mosquito. It’s a very apt analogy. It’s just as ridiculous. And the N.95 masks which are harder to penetrate are somewhat more effective but only as long as they fit your face very, very tightly, and with use the fit loosens and that opens up a pathway for the virus to enter."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-killer-virus-or-common-flu-2/5726852

Quote

"I am very heartened by resistance movements, particularly in Europe. I thought that the turnout in Germany was extraordinary and very, very inspiring, and that Bobby Kennedy Junior’s remarks were right on target, that we are witnessing the rollout of a totalitarian movement, the likes of which we have never seen anywhere, this is global now. And we’ve got all these liberals and progressives screaming about Trump as a fascist, okay. We can get into that whole subject, but to point to Trump as a fascist threat when we’re being faced with mandatory vaccination, immunity passports, we’re having our temperatures taken remotely, our movements are being tracked on cellphones, our socializing and gathering has been forbidden and is sometimes punished. If people can’t see that that’s totalitarianism, then they have been, they have their eyes wide shut."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 23, 2020, 10:40:25 PM
I think perhaps Ted Nugent said it the best.

Quote

“Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home…. y𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made-up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 Get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal.

I’m done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I’m not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I’m no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I’m not wearing a mask and I’m not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I’m not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it’s not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it’s because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick."

https://m.facebook.com/tednugent/posts/10157423794732297
Ted Nugent is an anti-social asshole. You're not doing social distancing for yourself, you're not wearing masks for yourself.

You're wearing them for others. Those whom will surely die if they catch corona.
Plus there are side-effects that aren't lethal but are still grave.

- Lung damage (permanent)
- Heart Damage (you can literally drop dead if you excercise. And whats worse, you can have this without ever having symptoms of covid itself!!!!!)
- Brain damage (permanent)

However, the numbers of the above are not yet set in stone. The heart-damage does appear to be 86% of all people that contracted covid (symptoms or not!)

The quote below is from a registered nurse at a hospital close to me. Also my niece.
Translated from dutch by me, but its power is not less because of it.

Quote from: My family
Lets say you woke up with a terrible cough, high fever and a horrendous pain all over your body. You rush to your doctor and the result is unfortunately Covid19.
For the last 2 weeks, you weren't aware you were infected and thus you have not really obeyed the rules. You did organise a party with just a few friends for pizza and beer. There were a few people too many according to the rules. But you have 10 friends, why exclude half of them? (In NL you are allowed 3 visitors max). You were hugging your friends and family. You must've thought: I do not feel sick. I have the right to live my own normal life, nobody is telling me what to do. Pff those scaremongers. But then with the covid-diagnosis you are sitting on your couch at home feeling horrible. Trouble breathing, high fever , pain all over... but you are lucky. You're young and healthy and soon you will feel better. YOU LUCKY *snip*.
But...... your best friend also caught covid from you. He gave it to his 82-year old mum. and she had COPD and already was using a ventilator and heart-problems. She died because of covid.

Your collegue , whom has asthma, also got it from your little pizza-party. Now he is on intensive care, he also spread it to a few in his family. But they will not know until 2 weeks have passed.
The waitress of the restaurant where you picked up your pizza, also got covid19 from you and took it home to her husband. He has MS and thus uses immunosurpressants. They are now also hospitalized with trouble breathing.
They are also doing badly but cannot say goodbye to their loved ones. They must be intubated on a ventilator and kept in a coma but chance that they will recover is nil. They can die surrounded by machines instead of loved ones.

All this because you refused to follow the rules and ridiculed them. You cannot take the few minor changes in your life, because you had to change your routines for a few months. But because you above all, have the right to live your normal life, nobody i mean nobody has the right to tell you what to do!!!!!

#SocialDistancing = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#StayHome = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#GetTested = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#WearMasks = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 23, 2020, 11:12:18 PM

That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

If masks actually worked it wouldn't matter that others didn't wear one as long as you do, no?

Masks have been worn by professionals for decades pre-covid to protect them from splatter. Worn usually than a few minutes or the duration of a procedure. Even the most effective masks filter out at best 12% of the airborne particles. Cloth masks are completely ineffective and is likely a negative in filtering. Masks will not protect you and others wearing masks will not protect you from covid.

If you want protection from covid stay home, wear a gas mask and a hazmat suit and evemn then, change and clean them regularly.



I like the comment to this video:
What this demonstrates to me is that, if I'm in a room with someone with a face shield (..or mask...) who sneezes, i have about 5 seconds to get out of the room.
:ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:

This is a research from the Florida Atlantic University.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 23, 2020, 11:20:50 PM
That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

You are pathetic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 23, 2020, 11:32:48 PM
- Lung damage (permanent)
- Heart Damage (you can literally drop dead if you excercise. And whats worse, you can have this without ever having symptoms of covid itself!!!!!)
- Brain damage (permanent)

There is no penis damage on your list.
That’s the main thing.
Reproduction comes first...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 23, 2020, 11:43:44 PM
Rosco (and others) you are not a politician...

... and you are not a God.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 24, 2020, 03:35:01 AM
Comes down to a couple fo things, shut everything down force mass poverty on every productive nation.
Depressions will cause death by different forums, covid stats will look great though.

Firgure out how to work and live with this and let each person decide for themselves.
I think some like living in a controlled state. Told what, when and how to do everything.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 24, 2020, 03:38:46 AM
I am curious, as we all live in different places, what is job loss rate or unemployment rates
in your country?

Canada Feb. 2020 5.9 %
           Sept 2020 13.7%

Keep something in mind, all seasonal workers were not working in Feb
but are in Sept. Layoffs from major companies are now being announced daily.
Tourism expected to lose 500,000 jobs this year.

THose pro sit at home and do nothing, please explain to me how this is better?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 24, 2020, 05:55:15 AM
I think perhaps Ted Nugent said it the best.

Quote

“Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home…. y𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made-up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 Get your toxic vaccine while avoiding vitamin C, sunshine and the things God gave us to actually heal.

I’m done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I’m not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I’m no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I’m not wearing a mask and I’m not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I’m not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it’s not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it’s because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick."

https://m.facebook.com/tednugent/posts/10157423794732297
Ted Nugent is an anti-social asshole. You're not doing social distancing for yourself, you're not wearing masks for yourself.

You're wearing them for others. Those whom will surely die if they catch corona.
Plus there are side-effects that aren't lethal but are still grave.

- Lung damage (permanent)
- Heart Damage (you can literally drop dead if you excercise. And whats worse, you can have this without ever having symptoms of covid itself!!!!!)
- Brain damage (permanent)

However, the numbers of the above are not yet set in stone. The heart-damage does appear to be 86% of all people that contracted covid (symptoms or not!)

The quote below is from a registered nurse at a hospital close to me. Also my niece.
Translated from dutch by me, but its power is not less because of it.

Quote from: My family
Lets say you woke up with a terrible cough, high fever and a horrendous pain all over your body. You rush to your doctor and the result is unfortunately Covid19.
For the last 2 weeks, you weren't aware you were infected and thus you have not really obeyed the rules. You did organise a party with just a few friends for pizza and beer. There were a few people too many according to the rules. But you have 10 friends, why exclude half of them? (In NL you are allowed 3 visitors max). You were hugging your friends and family. You must've thought: I do not feel sick. I have the right to live my own normal life, nobody is telling me what to do. Pff those scaremongers. But then with the covid-diagnosis you are sitting on your couch at home feeling horrible. Trouble breathing, high fever , pain all over... but you are lucky. You're young and healthy and soon you will feel better. YOU LUCKY *snip*.
But...... your best friend also caught covid from you. He gave it to his 82-year old mum. and she had COPD and already was using a ventilator and heart-problems. She died because of covid.

Your collegue , whom has asthma, also got it from your little pizza-party. Now he is on intensive care, he also spread it to a few in his family. But they will not know until 2 weeks have passed.
The waitress of the restaurant where you picked up your pizza, also got covid19 from you and took it home to her husband. He has MS and thus uses immunosurpressants. They are now also hospitalized with trouble breathing.
They are also doing badly but cannot say goodbye to their loved ones. They must be intubated on a ventilator and kept in a coma but chance that they will recover is nil. They can die surrounded by machines instead of loved ones.

All this because you refused to follow the rules and ridiculed them. You cannot take the few minor changes in your life, because you had to change your routines for a few months. But because you above all, have the right to live your normal life, nobody i mean nobody has the right to tell you what to do!!!!!

#SocialDistancing = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#StayHome = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#GetTested = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU
#WearMasks = ITS NOT ABOUT YOU

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html

Im going to believe the hospital rather than cnbc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 24, 2020, 07:57:17 AM
I am curious, as we all live in different places, what is job loss rate or unemployment rates
in your country?

Canada Feb. 2020 5.9 %
           Sept 2020 13.7%

Keep something in mind, all seasonal workers were not working in Feb
but are in Sept. Layoffs from major companies are now being announced daily.
Tourism expected to lose 500,000 jobs this year.

THose pro sit at home and do nothing, please explain to me how this is better?

While I am pro common sense. I suspect in economic terms the 'hit' from CORONA will be felt for decades. In New England one senses and at times sees the damage. I feel it is a snowball at the top of a mountain, we all know how gravity works.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 24, 2020, 09:49:47 AM
I am curious, as we all live in different places, what is job loss rate or unemployment rates
in your country?

Canada Feb. 2020 5.9 %
           Sept 2020 13.7%

Keep something in mind, all seasonal workers were not working in Feb
but are in Sept. Layoffs from major companies are now being announced daily.
Tourism expected to lose 500,000 jobs this year.

THose pro sit at home and do nothing, please explain to me how this is better?

While I am pro common sense. I suspect in economic terms the 'hit' from CORONA will be felt for decades. In New England one senses and at times sees the damage. I feel it is a snowball at the top of a mountain, we all know how gravity works.
I agree, 6 months ago, no one really knew what this was.
now that they are beginning to understand this, its time for us to learn
how to live with it. No real vacine has every been created for any illness
in the covid family, flu shot helps 60% but not all, so even if they
figure out vaccine, its likely not going to be a cure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 24, 2020, 11:06:17 AM
- Lung damage (permanent)
- Heart Damage (you can literally drop dead if you excercise. And whats worse, you can have this without ever having symptoms of covid itself!!!!!)
- Brain damage (permanent)

There is no penis damage on your list.
That’s the main thing.
Reproduction comes first...  :laugh:
:ROFL:    :ROFL:     :ROFL:   tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 24, 2020, 11:07:10 AM
Im going to believe the hospital rather than cnbc.

How many of us had a good sleep last night, had a stroll in the morning and a healthy breakfast?
It was not me.
This is our mentality. Hospitals will save me.

There are many questions about COVID without answers.
One of them is who is going to pay for all this crap?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 24, 2020, 11:32:15 AM
That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

You are pathetic.
Please, as an expert in the topic of health, tell us why you wrote the above words?

Are you unhappy again today?
Do you believe, against the strong evidence that mask wearing does not reduce transmission of coronavirus?

Perhaps you are as selfish as you seem from your writing?

Colour me curious.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 24, 2020, 11:53:40 AM
That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

You are pathetic.
Please, as an expert in the topic of health, tell us why you wrote the above words?

Are you unhappy again today?
Do you believe, against the strong evidence that mask wearing does not reduce transmission of coronavirus?

Perhaps you are as selfish as you seem from your writing?

Colour me curious.

Hazardous materials expert says masks cause cancer.

https://markcrispinmiller.com/2020/10/that-mask-is-giving-you-lung-cancer/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 24, 2020, 12:02:03 PM
. No real vacine has every been created for any illness
in the covid family, flu shot helps 60% but not all, so even if they
figure out vaccine, its likely not going to be a cure.

Russia already has a vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 24, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
There are many questions about COVID without answers.
One of them is who is going to pay for all this crap?


Our Children and our children's children will pay. Hopefully COVID doesn't make our penises fall off because we're going to need it to make a lot of children.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 24, 2020, 06:04:27 PM
That's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's hugely selfish for you to take my life and health judt because you don't think wearing a mask is cool or comfortable.

You are pathetic.
Please, as an expert in the topic of health, tell us why you wrote the above words?


I do not answer twice.

So, Andrew, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read.
Andrew, again read stuff.
Read words.
Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone.
That's how these things work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 24, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
There are many questions about COVID without answers.
One of them is who is going to pay for all this crap?


Our Children and our children's children will pay. Hopefully COVID doesn't make our penises fall off because we're going to need it to make a lot of children.

So, life continues....  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 25, 2020, 01:44:45 AM
. No real vacine has every been created for any illness
in the covid family, flu shot helps 60% but not all, so even if they
figure out vaccine, its likely not going to be a cure.

Russia already has a vaccine.
What is success rate?
Does it cure everyone ?
Does it prevent someone from getting again?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on October 25, 2020, 07:54:16 AM
. No real vacine has every been created for any illness
in the covid family, flu shot helps 60% but not all, so even if they
figure out vaccine, its likely not going to be a cure.

Russia already has a vaccine.
What is success rate?
Does it cure everyone ?
Does it prevent someone from getting again?
Too early to tell.

I know a couple of people who have taken it with no to mild side effects. Is it effective? That remains to be seen.

I waiting to see what happens in 1-3 months when I talk to them at that time.

Have you ever taken a flu shot? I did once and had a few mild symptoms afterward. Felt pretty good after the initial reaction and didn't get the flu that year. However, I have maybe had once or twice in my life while I lived in LA (35 years). The weather is too nice and most people drive.

I've had the flu here a number of times and think, of course, that the metro is the prime reason. The first case of flu I had here was brutal and could/might have been deadly had I been over 60 with a pre-existing condition. It was that bad. Each case of the flu after the initial bout was less severe to even mild now. The last few years I haven't even had it.

Personally, I think its effects (corona virus/vaccine) will be similar, and the vaccine will affect people differently and only be so effective overall at least initially and improve over time.

Vaccines are big money makers, so of course everyone's jockeying to be first/best.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 25, 2020, 09:21:20 AM
Vaccines are big money makers, so of course everyone's jockeying to be first/best.

BINGO
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on October 25, 2020, 11:08:00 PM
Vaccines are big money makers, so of course everyone's jockeying to be first/best.

BINGO

ABSOLUTELY!!!  tiphat

Still alive and no infection from Covid-19 despite travelling 3 times this year to Pafos in Cyprus, Corfu and Kos islands in Greece.

Every time before and after travelling we have taken the tests, which were all NEGATIVE.

Personally I have never used a Mask, anywere, including shopping in the UK. Funny I was not stopped in any airport or told off on any flight!

Of course I follow the 2-3 metre distance advice and avoid joining the sheep travelling  lot who fight to be the first on line on departures and arrivals.........piling up on top of each other and I follow the simple instruction to wash my hands every time I drive, shop and touch something not familiar.

Of course my working wife, is following a certain patern, when she comes home...... complete change of clothes and a shower before coming near me.

I am 75 years old, have lovely grandchildren and have no intention to make a favour to Boris Johnson not collecting my pension or travelling to Manchester to say hello to Members there!

The view of some high positioned specialists, Covid-19 is just another flu Epidemic  and I have always made my  Flu Jab in Autumn.

Read the announcements from WHO ...... 0.03% the death rate under 70 years old and 0.04% over 70 years old and depends of no of tests made!

Nice to see the same people, keep going, without the biggest Troll around.

Have a nice day all of you!    tiphat








Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 26, 2020, 05:08:40 AM

Do you know where that number comes from? I do actually, it is the amount of people correctly applying the mask.

A properly fitted mask has 95% efficiency and not 12%. But go on, prove me wrong, my information comes from the Erasmus medical university. Which is one of the elite schools of medicine in Netherlands capable of researching this shit.

Here's the source of 12% applying the mask correctly : https://www.scientias.nl/onderzoek-bewijst-de-meeste-mensen-kunnen-totaal-niet-omgaan-met-mondkapjes/

You can also easily determine yourself what you're buying as every mouthmask has an N-rating. So an N95 (the best quality) has an efficiency of 95% of all aerosols stopped.

Precisely no. I've researched it several times actually but that was months ago. Doing a quick google search on it just now reveals much of the same information but I noticed much more information supporting CDC guidelines. A properly seated N95 mask supposedly will filter out 95% of airborne particles of 0.3 microns or more. It's been tested and determined to be 33% effective against covid. (properly used) They are the most effective against aerosols than other available masks definitely but, 33% if properly used against 0.3 microns isn't  much security. If used properly the surgical masks offer 11.5% and cloth masks 6%. Keep in mind those numbers are best case scenario if used properly. I can't state that I have seen anyone using any of them properly. Just everyone having one hanging on their head seems to appease the masses.

There's plenty of info out there to support any position you want to take on a mask. Common sense which isn't so common anymore also offers some information. That being unless you are walking around with an air purifier on your back you will be breathing particles of all types and sizes no matter your mask
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 26, 2020, 07:18:55 AM

There's plenty of info out there to support any position you want to take on a mask. Common sense which isn't so common anymore also offers some information. That being unless you are walking around with an air purifier on your back you will be breathing particles of all types and sizes no matter your mask
The numbers you quote are far too low.

That being said, are masks perfect? No most certainly not. The whole goal of the operation (social distancing, masks, etc. etc. etc.) is to get the infection-rate to be less than 1.0 per person. All things help when combined together. Thats something most people forget.

If the infection rate is above 1.5 , then shit will really hit the fan. And in most of Europe, that is true already. Overwhelmed hospitals in Netherlands are once again sending non-covid patients to Germany because our hospitals are overrun with severely sick people
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 26, 2020, 08:47:41 AM

The numbers you quote are far too low.

That being said, are masks perfect? No most certainly not. The whole goal of the operation (social distancing, masks, etc. etc. etc.) is to get the infection-rate to be less than 1.0 per person. All things help when combined together. Thats something most people forget.

If the infection rate is above 1.5 , then shit will really hit the fan. And in most of Europe, that is true already. Overwhelmed hospitals in Netherlands are once again sending non-covid patients to Germany because our hospitals are overrun with severely sick people

No the numbers IMO seem to be about right. What we're dealing with here is mostly opinion even from the experts who can't agree. You've got your source you appear to have confidence in. I didn't read it because I don't read dutch and I'm too lazy to translate. I likely have read the results before in any event or some tests that were the same or close to. Temporary masks offer next to nothing in the way of protection.

At the beginning of the pandemic washing hands, wearing gloves, social distancing was introduced and recommended to help alleviate a rush and overwhelming hospitals. "Slowing" the spread, not stopping.  Masks specifically were not recommended. Then a few months later they were recommended after communities started with mandatory lock downs.

Anthony Fauci co-authored a paper in 2008 that declared the Spanish pandemic of 1918-1919 that killed millions say the evidence is that most did not die from Spanish flu but most likely bacterial pneumonia from wearing masks. There's essentially no protection from the virus. One will contract it or they won't. Yes one can do a few things to lessen the possibility but, the most you can do is 33%? That's not really protection, is it?

Social distancing and masks are fearmongering under the guise of safety and you're selfish if you do not believe it and wear a mask because you're told to. The "science" does not support it. The narrative does
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 26, 2020, 10:46:55 PM
Of course my working wife, is following a certain patern, when she comes home...... complete change of clothes and a shower before coming near me.

I am 75 years old....

I restrain myself in all possible and impossible ways do not say what I really think.
Only in respect of your age!!!!!!!!!!!!!  >:(

But I have to ask you: have you had the same requirement for people around you during your three trips to Greece?  :o
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 26, 2020, 10:51:35 PM

Do you know where that number comes from? I do actually, it is the amount of people correctly applying the mask.

A properly fitted mask has 95% efficiency and not 12%. But go on, prove me wrong, my information comes from the Erasmus medical university. Which is one of the elite schools of medicine in Netherlands capable of researching this shit.

Here's the source of 12% applying the mask correctly : https://www.scientias.nl/onderzoek-bewijst-de-meeste-mensen-kunnen-totaal-niet-omgaan-met-mondkapjes/

You can also easily determine yourself what you're buying as every mouthmask has an N-rating. So an N95 (the best quality) has an efficiency of 95% of all aerosols stopped.

Precisely no. I've researched it several times actually but that was months ago. Doing a quick google search on it just now reveals much of the same information but I noticed much more information supporting CDC guidelines. A properly seated N95 mask supposedly will filter out 95% of airborne particles of 0.3 microns or more. It's been tested and determined to be 33% effective against covid. (properly used) They are the most effective against aerosols than other available masks definitely but, 33% if properly used against 0.3 microns isn't  much security. If used properly the surgical masks offer 11.5% and cloth masks 6%. Keep in mind those numbers are best case scenario if used properly. I can't state that I have seen anyone using any of them properly. Just everyone having one hanging on their head seems to appease the masses.

There's plenty of info out there to support any position you want to take on a mask. Common sense which isn't so common anymore also offers some information. That being unless you are walking around with an air purifier on your back you will be breathing particles of all types and sizes no matter your mask

+1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on October 26, 2020, 11:02:32 PM

The numbers you quote are far too low.

That being said, are masks perfect? No most certainly not. The whole goal of the operation (social distancing, masks, etc. etc. etc.) is to get the infection-rate to be less than 1.0 per person. All things help when combined together. Thats something most people forget.

If the infection rate is above 1.5 , then shit will really hit the fan. And in most of Europe, that is true already. Overwhelmed hospitals in Netherlands are once again sending non-covid patients to Germany because our hospitals are overrun with severely sick people

No the numbers IMO seem to be about right. What we're dealing with here is mostly opinion even from the experts who can't agree. You've got your source you appear to have confidence in. I didn't read it because I don't read dutch and I'm too lazy to translate. I likely have read the results before in any event or some tests that were the same or close to. Temporary masks offer next to nothing in the way of protection.

At the beginning of the pandemic washing hands, wearing gloves, social distancing was introduced and recommended to help alleviate a rush and overwhelming hospitals. "Slowing" the spread, not stopping.  Masks specifically were not recommended. Then a few months later they were recommended after communities started with mandatory lock downs.

Anthony Fauci co-authored a paper in 2008 that declared the Spanish pandemic of 1918-1919 that killed millions say the evidence is that most did not die from Spanish flu but most likely bacterial pneumonia from wearing masks. There's essentially no protection from the virus. One will contract it or they won't. Yes one can do a few things to lessen the possibility but, the most you can do is 33%? That's not really protection, is it?

Social distancing and masks are fearmongering under the guise of safety and you're selfish if you do not believe it and wear a mask because you're told to. The "science" does not support it. The narrative does

You are in medical field or you are an exceptionally thorough researcher.
I can sign under every your word.
Especially how we reinfect ourselves using masks including viruses, bacteria’s like pneumonia, H.pilori, and so on.
Also, thank you for writing an explanation.
I am toooooo lazy for that....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 27, 2020, 01:04:06 AM

Anthony Fauci co-authored a paper in 2008 that declared the Spanish pandemic of 1918-1919 that killed millions say the evidence is that most did not die from Spanish flu but most likely bacterial pneumonia from wearing masks. There's essentially no protection from the virus. One will contract it or they won't. Yes one can do a few things to lessen the possibility but, the most you can do is 33%? That's not really protection, is it?

Social distancing and masks are fearmongering under the guise of safety and you're selfish if you do not believe it and wear a mask because you're told to. The "science" does not support it. The narrative does

Science fortunately for me, does support that wearing masks, social distancing etc. etc. all help in various ways of effectivity. Some more, other less. But the end goal gets closer with all of them together. An infection rate below 1.0.

As for doctor fauci, this is the second time I see him comment on something completely wrong. The biggest problem of the spanish flu in 1918 were the american soldiers coming home infected and infecting everyone around them because they *werent wearing masks!*

There goes his credibility (again).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Deadly_second_wave_of_late_1918

Quote
Netherlands reported 40,000+ deaths from influenza and acute respiratory disease, Bombay reported ~15,000 deaths in a population of 1.1 million.[46] The 1918 flu pandemic in India was especially deadly, with an estimated 12.5–20 million deaths in the fall months of 1918 alone.[33]

Now if you believe that India normal people were wearing masks, even though they're dirt-poor in that time, I will stop responding to you and simply let you be wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 27, 2020, 01:20:25 AM
I sometimes wonder about people.

They old saying ’on the Internet nobody knows that you're a dog' seems apposite as supposedly expert people go round sharing fantasies, untruths and lies!

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-blame-flu-deaths-1918/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 27, 2020, 03:16:01 AM
I sometimes wonder about people.

They old saying ’on the Internet nobody knows that you're a dog' seems apposite as supposedly expert people go round sharing fantasies, untruths and lies!

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-blame-flu-deaths-1918/

Well, it seems that after moby's exit my fact checking became a bit lax. Seems i need to step that up again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 27, 2020, 03:23:01 AM
Markje, while that's never a bad idea, we can all benefit from knowledge, I wasn't referring to you. :)

I had to look that link up, of course. We know that people who use face masks as a matter of course are not falling over due to infections caused by mask wearing. So, we can be pretty sure that claims being made just upthread are bogus and posted by people who, whatever they might claim for their field of expertise, do not know what they should know.

I just wonder why the 'dogs' on the Internet feel such a need to present themselves as something different.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 27, 2020, 07:46:49 AM


Science fortunately for me, does support that wearing masks, social distancing etc. etc. all help in various ways of effectivity. Some more, other less. But the end goal gets closer with all of them together. An infection rate below 1.0.

As for doctor fauci, this is the second time I see him comment on something completely wrong. The biggest problem of the spanish flu in 1918 were the american soldiers coming home infected and infecting everyone around them because they *werent wearing masks!*

There goes his credibility (again).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Deadly_second_wave_of_late_1918


Listen, I'm not telling you to wear a mask nor not to. That is up to you and not what I think would matter to you anyway. The narrative or idea that wearing one will stop you from being infected is based on junk science. Masks either work or they don't. Kind'a like using condoms with a hole in it. If it makes you feel safe then by all means, wear it. Just know as long as you are breathing air with or without the masks discussed, you are still breathing the particles in the air where the covid exists. Covid also can enter through the eyes. Are you wearing a face shield too?

The idea that someone is selfish because they chose not to wear a mask is following orders on a baseless narrative. If you wear one you must believe in the protection it provides thus, it shouldn't matter if others wear one. Wearing a mask should be an individual choice. Expecting the neighbors or the government to protect you from an airborne virus is really quite silly, isn't it? Do we need instituted mandates for us to wash our hands, wear a mask and be aware that a real virus is on the loose? Covid doesn't carry a ruler or know the difference in 6ft or 6 miles.
 
Quote
Netherlands reported 40,000+ deaths from influenza and acute respiratory disease, Bombay reported ~15,000 deaths in a population of 1.1 million.[46] The 1918 flu pandemic in India was especially deadly, with an estimated 12.5–20 million deaths in the fall months of 1918 alone.[33]

Now if you believe that India normal people were wearing masks, even though they're dirt-poor in that time, I will stop responding to you and simply let you be wrong.

We know much more about this virus (other than it's origins) than we knew 9 months ago. We know it isn't the Spanish flu and we know that 99.6% of those infected recover from it. We know the elderly and those with underlying conditions are the most susceptible. The virus may be slowed but the history of corona viruses tell us it won't go away. It will eventually mutate to much less effectiveness than it has now. Protecting the vulnerable is a wonderful idea. Why not focus on those rather than your neighbor is out to kill you because he's selfish and doesn't wear a mask? It's fearmongering and a tool with ulterior motive. Stay safe in your mask and leave your neighbor alone. I'd love to agree with you but then, we'd both be wrong.

I sometimes wonder about people.

They old saying ’on the Internet nobody knows that you're a dog' seems apposite as supposedly expert people go round sharing fantasies, untruths and lies!

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-blame-flu-deaths-1918/

There's the expected condescension from AndyFi to anyone who dare challenge his position. One would think with his elevated overblown sense of self worth and education he might have the sense to think for himself but no. He's quite comfy in his sheep position in life and winning an argument on the internet even if he is wrong. Mr Fi, when fact checking someone you should put more effort into it and not stop with the first link on your Google search.You're fact checking with the same people lying to you

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 27, 2020, 07:59:03 AM

You are in medical field or you are an exceptionally thorough researcher.
I can sign under every your word.
Especially how we reinfect ourselves using masks including viruses, bacteria’s like pneumonia, H.pilori, and so on.
Also, thank you for writing an explanation.
I am toooooo lazy for that....

You are welcome  :)
No I'm not in the medical field although I have done my fair share of research in my profession. I'm the ever pessimistic  and have a driving need to understand clearly what I'm being fed. I have researched covid quite a bit this year as many people have. Most of the trails lead to "question everything". We've been fed a line of shyte and we still have those fighting at the trough for another belly full as evidenced by Mr. Condescension
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 27, 2020, 09:53:20 AM
Listen, I'm not telling you to wear a mask nor not to. That is up to you and not what I think would matter to you anyway. The narrative or idea that wearing one will stop you from being infected is based on junk science. Masks either work or they don't. Kind'a like using condoms with a hole in it. If it makes you feel safe then by all means, wear it. Just know as long as you are breathing air with or without the masks discussed, you are still breathing the particles in the air where the covid exists. Covid also can enter through the eyes. Are you wearing a face shield too?
Its like an echo with someone else. you are not hearing the argument. The masks aren't perfect and arent designed to be perfect. Its just enough to get the infection rate down. And other methods like social distancing are also getting the infection rate down.


Expecting the neighbors or the government to protect you from an airborne virus is really quite silly, isn't it? Do we need instituted mandates for us to wash our hands, wear a mask and be aware that a real virus is on the loose? Covid doesn't carry a ruler or know the difference in 6ft or 6 miles.
The virus doesn't know the difference between 6ft or 6 miles, but the infection rate of covid at 6ft is much , much higher than at 6 miles. Therefore the government has drawn a line that said: Social distancing will not improve the situation much after X feet. Therefore, that is chosen as the cutoff point. so at X+1 feet you are getting even less virus, but the significance is much smaller than at X-1 feet.

The netherlands chose X at 1.5 meter. Does it mean you can't get covid at 1.6 meter? Of course you can get it, but the chance that you get it does not decrease much anymore after 1.5 meters.
 
We know much more about this virus (other than it's origins) than we knew 9 months ago. We know it isn't the Spanish flu and we know that 99.6% of those infected recover from it.
Caveat emptor : We know that IF provided with proper hospital / health care.  When hospitals are overrun, you only need to look at italy in march 2020 to see covid's real death rate which is then much, much higher.

We know the elderly and those with underlying conditions are the most susceptible. The virus may be slowed but the history of corona viruses tell us it won't go away. It will eventually mutate to much less effectiveness than it has now. Protecting the vulnerable is a wonderful idea. Why not focus on those rather than your neighbor is out to kill you because he's selfish and doesn't wear a mask? It's fearmongering and a tool with ulterior motive. Stay safe in your mask and leave your neighbor alone. I'd love to agree with you but then, we'd both be wrong.
Its not about you, its about the elderly and unhealthy. When covid first hit the Netherlands I had a general health checkup. I did not feel sick, i did not suspect I was extra-vunerable at my age which is well below 50 and still, covid is a death sentance for me. Yet when people hear about my death, oh but he had underlying health issues with his lungs... But without that general health checkup I would never have known I had that. Because no symptoms of the bad thing. And I suspect most won't even know that they had underlying health issues  until corona pushes them over the edge.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 27, 2020, 10:19:47 AM
I think that there's a huge amount of fear over in Plagueistan. Coupled with so much purposeful misleading of an under-educated population and the situation is ripe for what's going on over there. Its sad and worrying.

In Europe we may sometimes thing that education is bad but the USA has a history of being anti-science. That means most people don't even have the basic tools to be able to make sense of the world around them. It's OK when everything is 'normal' but it in such a society change is hard to handle.

Look how hard people over there are working to rationalise anti-science. Even so called medical professionals, as we see in this thread, are unable to understand the basics of their environment in respect of items they use every day in their own work. That's frightening. (assuming that the person is not a good old Internet dog)

When I see research that suggests most USAians get more news from social media than from journalists I get worried. OK journalism over there is also a moribund profession but there's still good among the bad. How bad does real journalism have to be before what some meme writer or influencer says is more useful than even mediocre news reporting and analysis?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 27, 2020, 01:03:57 PM

Its like an echo with someone else. you are not hearing the argument. The masks aren't perfect and arent designed to be perfect. Its just enough to get the infection rate down. And other methods like social distancing are also getting the infection rate down.

I hear you and for some reason that is exactly what I feel like in this discourse with you. You're right. Wear your mask, social distance and feel snug as a bug in a rug. Many others have done the same and became infected, too. Do all you need to do to stay safe. It is after all a mind game anyway, no?


Quote
The virus doesn't know the difference between 6ft or 6 miles, but the infection rate of covid at 6ft is much , much higher than at 6 miles. Therefore the government has drawn a line that said: Social distancing will not improve the situation much after X feet. Therefore, that is chosen as the cutoff point. so at X+1 feet you are getting even less virus, but the significance is much smaller than at X-1 feet.

The netherlands chose X at 1.5 meter. Does it mean you can't get covid at 1.6 meter? Of course you can get it, but the chance that you get it does not decrease much anymore after 1.5 meters.

Somebody sneezes or coughs, the larger droplets, the ones that the N95 will protect you from, they say stay airborne for a few seconds up to a few minutes. The smaller droplets, the ones that are aerosol can stay airborne up to a few hours and during that time can move up to 100 feet. The 6ft social distancing is based from a high school science fair project in an experiment for a safe distance from classmates in flu season. Actually no basis of fact. Funny that, huh?

Quote
Caveat emptor : We know that IF provided with proper hospital / health care.  When hospitals are overrun, you only need to look at italy in march 2020 to see covid's real death rate which is then much, much higher.

Do you contend that if the entire country of Italy were wearing a mask and social distancing in January or February the death rate would have been much lower? Caveat emptor has been my contention all along. Your health is your responsibility. Not your government's or selfish neighbors

We know the elderly and those with underlying conditions are the most susceptible. The virus may be slowed but the history of corona viruses tell us it won't go away. It will eventually mutate to much less effectiveness than it has now. Protecting the vulnerable is a wonderful idea. Why not focus on those rather than your neighbor is out to kill you because he's selfish and doesn't wear a mask? It's fearmongering and a tool with ulterior motive. Stay safe in your mask and leave your neighbor alone. I'd love to agree with you but then, we'd both be wrong.
Quote
Its not about you, its about the elderly and unhealthy. When covid first hit the Netherlands I had a general health checkup. I did not feel sick, i did not suspect I was extra-vunerable at my age which is well below 50 and still, covid is a death sentance for me. Yet when people hear about my death, oh but he had underlying health issues with his lungs... But without that general health checkup I would never have known I had that. Because no symptoms of the bad thing. And I suspect most won't even know that they had underlying health issues  until corona pushes them over the edge.

Please point to where I said anything was about me? I agree with you it is about the most vulnerable. Quickly, in late January I suddenly had an awful throat pain that quickly grew to a constant cough. At this time there were scant rumors about a spreading virus from China that was "on the way". I felt like death warmed over for 3 solid weeks. I believe I had it, passed it to my wife, several friends and God only knows who else. With my age and health history I could have been considered vulnerable. Near 60, ex-smoker with diabetes, other than that quite healthy. It was bad but I think I'd rather have it over the flu. Covid wasn't supposed to be in my area at the time
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 27, 2020, 01:09:23 PM
I think that there's a huge amount of fear over in Plagueistan. Coupled with so much purposeful misleading of an under-educated population and the situation is ripe for what's going on over there. Its sad and worrying.

In Europe we may sometimes thing that education is bad but the USA has a history of being anti-science. That means most people don't even have the basic tools to be able to make sense of the world around them. It's OK when everything is 'normal' but it in such a society change is hard to handle.

Look how hard people over there are working to rationalise anti-science. Even so called medical professionals, as we see in this thread, are unable to understand the basics of their environment in respect of items they use every day in their own work. That's frightening. (assuming that the person is not a good old Internet dog)

When I see research that suggests most USAians get more news from social media than from journalists I get worried. OK journalism over there is also a moribund profession but there's still good among the bad. How bad does real journalism have to be before what some meme writer or influencer says is more useful than even mediocre news reporting and analysis?

There is no fear coming from over here Andy. We're still smart enough to know when we're being fed a shit sandwich. With all of your country's great accomplishments, your personal proclamations as to your educated superiorty, you Downton Abbians still seem to struggle with that
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 27, 2020, 01:27:58 PM
. . .  you Downton Abbians still seem to struggle with that

 :laugh:   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 27, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
I think we know masks do some good, but proven more physiological, same as the distancing.
What bothers me  most is the lack of reporting on all issues caused by lock down rules,
95% is always about how many cases, stats etc, daily, hourly updates.
But everything else is ignored. Things like this always make me question
who gains the most by this?

Seems many, including some here lost the ability to question or think.
Do what your told, when you told, how your told, t
his training well bode well for you in the future :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 27, 2020, 02:38:06 PM
Another thought is this, for those who's income has not been affected or
may have even been increased, the rules don't affect you the same as others.
Maybe if someone took 80% of your income away, you would see it different?

Ask yourself, if you income was 5-6k month and you were then forced to live on
2K a month, how long would you agree with rules then?

Several millions are dealing with this now in Canada, likely where you live to, are you worried about them?
you are saying don't be selfish right?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 27, 2020, 06:28:47 PM

Mother of virologist whistleblower who fled China arrested. She's guilty by relation!

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2077100087844/mother-of-virologist-dr-li-meng-yan-who-alleged-covid-19-was-made-in-chinese-lab-arrested-by-beijing-authorities
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on October 28, 2020, 09:24:52 AM
One wonders what it would be like if this was HIV instead of coronavirus. How would the media/press have handled it? Would they have politicised it? Would we have had lockdowns, businesses shuttered and livelihoods crushed?

Those of you who are old enough to remember how scared people were just to even be in the vicinity of someone who had HIV, or heaven forbid, full blown Aids. I know I was.

I make the correlation to the coronavirus because of all the (mis)information back then to all the (mis)information about corona now. Seems somewhat similar in who gets infected, how one gets infected and the degree to which one had/has the disease. And as the years go on, I'm sure we will understand corona much, much better in the future as we understand the virus much better now than back in March.

I also remember meeting a guy at the gym who later died from AIDS. An Adonis look alike, 190cm, 100kgs chiselled guy (bisexual) who when I last saw him under the care of my brother, was reduced to about 40kgs. Not a pretty sight.

I mean HIV/Aids had been around for years without all the facts and people continue to be misinformed about it now. I first heard about it around 1984 and the fear and misinformation was still going strong when Magic Johnson announced his retirement in 1991 after contracting HIV, to the point when he actually returned to the basketball court only to deal with the backlash that ensued from other players, to his subsequent final retirement a short time later.

Fast forward to 2020 and HIV/Aids has killed millions of people and still kills anywhere from half a million to a million people worldwide yearly. Magic is alive and well as we speak. The medicine to fight AIDS is much better now 30-40 years after the initial outbreak

IOW, we learned to live with it and we couldn't/still can't mitigate it to zero. I suspect corona will not even come close to being that deadly in the future yet some of you worry about wearing masks/gloves, keeping distance and things that go bump in the night.

I understand the concern, but again, some perceptive please. Life goes on. We as a people need to move forward and deal with it rationally, it's all we can do.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on October 28, 2020, 09:33:54 AM

Mother of virologist whistleblower who fled China arrested. She's guilty by relation!

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2077100087844/mother-of-virologist-dr-li-meng-yan-who-alleged-covid-19-was-made-in-chinese-lab-arrested-by-beijing-authorities

ChiNazi have been committing this kind of crime since the day in 1949 but USA chooses to not see it until ChiNazi has become a True threat to USA herself.

Dr Yan's mother has been caught many times.  She tells the public this time.  Please help them!!!  Dr. Yan has sacrificed so much in order to save our world!  Use Military!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 28, 2020, 09:38:56 AM
The only safe way to manage exit from lockdown in this scenario is to give everybody antibody tests - and that ain't gonna happen!

. . . One subject that has often come up on European centric publications are the parallels to the AIDS ~ HIV epidemic. There are some valuable comparasions and insights.

The other subject that I read last month and again early this week is that a vaccine and antibody test will never be available. The second time coming from a French epidemiologist busy with AIDS. If true this is going make many assumptions that government leaders are making simply wrong. In some respects we will be back to the starting gate. . . .


One wonders what it would be like if this was HIV instead of coronavirus. How would the media/press have handled it? Would they have politicised it? Would we have had lockdowns, businesses shuttered and livelihoods crushed?

Those of you who are old enough to remember how scared people were just to even be in the vicinity of someone who had HIV, or heaven forbid, full blown Aids. I know I was.

I make the correlation to the coronavirus because of all the (mis)information back then to all the (mis)information about corona now. Seems somewhat similar in who gets infected, how one gets infected and the degree to which one had/has the disease. And as the years go on, I'm sure we will understand corona much, much better in the future as we understand the virus much better now than back in March.

I also remember meeting a guy at the gym who later died from AIDS. An Adonis look alike, 190cm, 100kgs chiselled guy (bisexual) who when I last saw him under the care of my brother, was reduced to about 40kgs. Not a pretty sight.

I mean HIV/Aids had been around for years without all the facts and people continue to be misinformed about it now. I first heard about it around 1984 and the fear and misinformation was still going strong when Magic Johnson announced his retirement in 1991 after contracting HIV, to the point when he actually returned to the basketball court only to deal with the backlash that ensued from other players, to his subsequent final retirement a short time later.

Fast forward to 2020 and HIV/Aids has killed millions of people and still kills anywhere from half a million to a million people worldwide yearly. Magic is alive and well as we speak. The medicine to fight AIDS is much better now 30-40 years after the initial outbreak

IOW, we learned to live with it and we couldn't/still can't mitigate it to zero. I suspect corona will not even come close to being that deadly in the future yet some of you worry about wearing masks/gloves, keeping distance and things that go bump in the night.

I understand the concern, but again, some perceptive please. Life goes on. We as a people need to move forward and deal with it rationally, it's all we can do.

 :thumbsup:

I still believe that like AIDS/HIV that COVID 19 is something we will have to learn to deal with and move on.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on October 28, 2020, 09:59:29 AM
I thought my take was somewhat original Av, :P. I did miss your post, but had I seen it, would have agreed wholeheartedly.  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 28, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
We're doing digital conferences at the moment, for obvious reasons but my colleagues were telling a pretty concerning story today.

One of the guys flat mates tested positive for covid so he also got a test after showing minor symptoms. During that period he was working in the showroom with another 4 colleagues, unaware of the situation. After news broke, all 5 of them got tested and on Monday they were told they were all positive.

Today they got another text saying that they were now negative and could return to work, so long as they weren't displaying symptoms. A number of colleagues were taking about this online today and apparently its quite common.

So are all these people being included in the 2nd wave figures on the news actually positive......or are the result being exaggerated for some unknown reason? The whole thing seems a bit of a mess and its this sort of stuff that provides oxygen to the conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 28, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
Another thought is this, for those who's income has not been affected or
may have even been increased, the rules don't affect you the same as others.
Maybe if someone took 80% of your income away, you would see it different?

Ask yourself, if you income was 5-6k month and you were then forced to live on
2K a month, how long would you agree with rules then?

Several millions are dealing with this now in Canada, likely where you live to, are you worried about them?
you are saying don't be selfish right?

Two thumbs up!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 28, 2020, 12:52:46 PM
How America helped defeat the Coronavirus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/opinion/us-coronavirus-response-asia.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 28, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
pay all the mdeida and politicians $500 per week and see how long it takes
for the story to change.

In our country this is what folks get maximum if loss job.
oh and this is fully taxable. I suspect some countires have different versions
but same Idea. Media, Politicians getting paid same I suspect.
and many working from home lol. good gig if you can get it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 28, 2020, 04:45:58 PM
So today I was nasally violated.

Came to find out via a colleague this morning (who also is a drama queen) that we all had been in contact with some one who had COVID. In fact the reality is it is three degrees removed. I feel fine. Oddly enough on Monday morning I went for a medical checkup and in passing I asked the technician who was having trouble drawing blood, if they would test for antibodies, for her it was not a problem, as she tried to find a vein. She wondered aloud if I was a vampire after her third fail.

In any event the test today while uncomfortable left me sneezing frequently. In fact it sort of tickled. I sneeze as a small percentage of the general public through my mouth. I heard her walking away muttering, "weird". Please tell me something I do not already know.

I will share the results as I am informed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 28, 2020, 05:37:35 PM
For those who think they may have had the virus already, but aren’t sure, you can get an antibody test to find out.

In the UK, BUPA are doing them for £65: https://www.bupa.co.uk/health/payg/covid-testing

I’m going to book one this week.

Apparently there is a big demand for antibody tests. The first slot I could get is the 27th of October. So I should know a couple of days afterwards if I’ve had it.

I’m pretty sure I had it - or something like it - in late December and/or February. I had two bouts of unusually bad lurgy at those times. I’d just come back from China and Korea in December and we had a week in Spain right before everything closed down in March when it was rampant there.

My son also had lurgy in Spain, he spent half the week in bed and we spent half the holiday driving to pharmacies buying crappy Spanish cough mixtures. They don’t sell proper stuff like Benylin there.

There are many confirmed cases at my daughters school. She had two or three days recently with a sore throat and a bit of a cough, but she shook it off like kids tend to.

If my antibody test says I’ve had it then it’s a fair assumption that we have all had it in our household. We will see.

My antibody test says I haven't had it. So my previous lurgy must have been something else.

I had my pneumonia jab, I better book my flu jab.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 29, 2020, 12:04:46 AM
How do you feel about not having had the plague?

I was a little bit disappointed to find that the unwellness I'd had was just a cold!

Perhaps negative results are part of a government campaign to do something bad to us, to control our minds or steal our freedumbs?

Worth noting that with these antibody tests false positives and negatives are possible. Not the same as the test to see if you are currently a plague victim.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 29, 2020, 12:56:31 AM
How do you feel about not having had the plague?

I was a little bit disappointed to find that the unwellness I'd had was just a cold!

Perhaps negative results are part of a government campaign to do something bad to us, to control our minds or steal our freedumbs?

Worth noting that with these antibody tests false positives and negatives are possible. Not the same as the test to see if you are currently a plague victim.

I'd be disappointed to find out I haven't had it. Partly because it would be reassuring on some level to know that I had been infected but hadn't experienced a significant illness.

I'm a bit fatigued by all the contrasting articles whereby testing is good, testing is bad, testing is reliable, testing is unreliable. I mentioned up thread a recent experience with work colleagues and the whole thing turns you a bit sceptical.

I know mistakes happen every day but there was a photo doing the rounds yesterday with Nicola Sturgeon at her power podium doing her daily population control speech. The graphic below her said;

There has been 1 death in the past 24 hours. That's 4 more than yesterday.

Yes its funny but the misinformation from official sources and press is ridiculous and I do wonder if they make it up as they go along.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 29, 2020, 01:14:59 AM
How do you feel about not having had the plague?

I was a little bit disappointed to find that the unwellness I'd had was just a cold!

I'd be disappointed to find out I haven't had it. Partly because it would be reassuring on some level to know that I had been infected but hadn't experienced a significant illness.

I was the same. Having had it is better than a vaccination (despite the fact some think you can get the same virus over and over again).

Perhaps negative results are part of a government campaign to do something bad to us, to control our minds or steal our freedumbs?

Well, you're already brainwashed into thinking a floppy bit of fabric in the form of a muzzle or chin nappy will save your life and anyone not wearing one is a murderer. A murderer, dya hear?  :chuckle:

I am starting to think much of this is about control. Control that will never go away if accepted by the population. I think masks, social distancing, travel restrictions and lockdowns might be here to stay unless challenged robustly. There will always be a new virus. They can blame Russia or North Korea for the next one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 29, 2020, 01:20:19 AM
An interesting excerpt from Rod Liddle's column in the Sunday Times:

============

Rebellion is brewing as the north-south Covid divide creeps ever closer to Westminster

I see that one of the northern towns to be placed under the more rigorous tier 2 of Covid lockdown is Slough. If you live in Slough this means you are forbidden to meet members of your “support bubble” indoors. You can meet them outside, but there are caveats as to where on their person you can touch them (only above the waist) and what subjects you may discuss with them. I think I have this right.

Tier 2 is not as draconian as a “firebreak”, which is what is being constructed along the length of Offa’s Dyke. If you are in Wales, everything will be closed except a few supermarkets, and the first minister, Mark Drakeford, will personally punch you in the throat if he finds a pair of socks, say, in your trolley. Essentials only — which in Wales means a tank of petrol to get the hell across the Severn Bridge.

Slough is not technically a northern town, being about 20 miles west of London. But, like Luton and Chatham, it has honorary northern status among southerners on account of the fact that it is awful. Those friendly bombs never did fall, and the wives are presumably still frizzing out their peroxide hair. Contra Betjeman, however, the bald young clerks will no longer be allowed to visit Maidenhead, or indeed anywhere else.

Coventry, meanwhile, is also not northern — but it, too, has been sent to Coventry. North of the Trent the towns and cities are either in tiers 2 and 3 or teeter precariously on the edge, evidence of a widening of that old north-south divide.

Seen from the southern vantage point, these skanky people are getting what they deserve. Low paid, morbidly obese and almost perpetually drunk, they are dispossessed of civic responsibility and continue, despite official warnings, to share their pies with one another, willy-nilly. I think this is Matt Hancock’s view. Across a vast swathe of our nation, from Workington to Worksop, Covid has found a happy breeding ground among the feckless and the dense.

Perhaps. But we are reaching a tipping point. The government is already aware that for a couple of weeks the polls have been changing: working-class voters have had it with lockdown. And when the kickback comes, it will come from the north.

The only reason it hasn’t happened so far, on a wide scale, is the Labour Party. Labour still pursues its policy of demanding more stringent lockdown — but we are beginning to see cracks in the red Covid wall. First, the Labour MP for Hartlepool, Mike Hill, objected to plans to put his town in tier 3.

I suspect he was influenced a little by the other local MPs and the regional authorities, which are mainly Conservative or independent. Teesside, the most spectacular breaching of that other red wall, in December’s general election, has been railing against lockdown for months.

Then there is Andy Burnham, the Labour mayor of Greater Manchester. He has either been “grandstanding”, as the government has it, or standing up for his city, which faces economic ruin. Either way, he is at odds with his party’s general drift on Covid and restrictions. Good for him.

He did not want a higher tier imposed on Manchester and has been able to counter some of the government’s statistics. The hospitals have not been overwhelmed. He might add, too, that there have been no excess deaths in hospitals for the time of year. And when the government tells you that ICU beds in hospitals are running at 90% capacity, it might add the contextually useful statistic that they usually run at about 90% capacity (and that this is a good thing, by and large).

In other words, the scary statistics deployed by Sage and the government are increasingly being challenged through the deployment of other statistics, which paint a completely different picture.

In truth, the government was never “following the science”. It was always following, a little blindly, a small bit of the science and was too quick to denounce those who possessed a counter-view as crackpot or callous.

The science has changed since March. So, too, the appetite of the public for restrictions that are often absurd and seem to have had no effect on the spread of the virus. Where the north leads, the rest of the country may soon follow.

Source (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2020-10-25/comment/rebellion-is-brewing-as-the-north-south-covid-divide-creeps-ever-closer-to-westminster-t36zm8xgx)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 29, 2020, 03:26:20 AM
A good article from both an on the ground assessment and humour POV.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on October 29, 2020, 04:44:45 AM
My Russian friend in Nice just informed me that Macron has legislated a lockdown quite similar to the one last March, effective today until December 1.

Shops, bars, restaurants, gyms, etc. are all closed.

He also tells me that mask wearing is strictly enforced with fines of 500-1000 euros for noncompliance.

Macron has always been a useful idiot IMO.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on October 29, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Of course my working wife, is following a certain patern, when she comes home...... complete change of clothes and a shower before coming near me.

I am 75 years old....

I restrain myself in all possible and impossible ways do not say what I really think.
Only in respect of your age!!!!!!!!!!!!!  >:(

But I have to ask you: have you had the same requirement for people around you during your three trips to Greece?  :o

For your information that was not my requirement but was my wife's decision to follow this patern after one of her colleagues was found POSITIVE, in one of their weekly tests.   Not that silly to argue with a Russian woman for her decision and effort to protect me!  :)

In actual fact when she had to cancel her trip to Russia in August because of their 14 days quarantine procedure on arrival to Moscow....... I offered to take her to Corfu for a good rest and she did not refused my offer. She loved my suggestion and we had an excellent holiday there.

I think taking precautions and keeping our distance from other people it's not a difficult task.


As the propaganda about Covid-19 has no end..... I watched and suggest you take a look too!

Video: The “Smoking Guns” of a Manufactured Pandemic

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-smoking-guns-of-a-manufactured-pandemic/5726200

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on October 30, 2020, 09:34:12 AM
Parallels between 9/11 and Covid.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/16-glaring-parallels-911-covid-ops/5727272?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on October 30, 2020, 11:14:45 AM


As the propaganda about Covid-19 has no end..... I watched and suggest you take a look too!

Video: The “Smoking Guns” of a Manufactured Pandemic

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-smoking-guns-of-a-manufactured-pandemic/5726200

 tiphat

Good clip and very informative
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on October 30, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
The winter of discontent is on it's way who will survive round two? 





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 30, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Like most things, folks are learning what they should have already known.
Most govenment officials lie Whoda thunk it :)
So as with many things folks divide and guess what
Gov has to be involved, more control is what they want
and they are getting it.

My new expression ( for about 5 years now)
Free country as long as you do what your told.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on October 30, 2020, 04:18:39 PM
Like most things, folks are learning what they should have already known.
Most govenment officials lie Whoda thunk it :)
So as with many things folks divide and guess what
Gov has to be involved, more control is what they want
and they are getting it.

My new expression ( for about 5 years now)
Free country as long as you do what your told.

Free country as long as you do what your told.  Yep thats about it.. and of course keep your mouth shut!! Get in debt so they own you.. and just become a slave to the system..

Perfect! Its what they all want.. Of course it will help is you wear a dress and haven't figured out what sex you are.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on October 31, 2020, 03:47:05 AM
France, Belgium and Germany all heading back into lockdown and some serious whispers in the press about the Uk following suit next week.

I could really do without it because I've more than made up for the 4 month shut down from a business perspective, with retail being so strong, but the 8 week run up to xmas is money time. Fingers crossed.....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 31, 2020, 03:54:51 AM
France, Belgium and Germany all heading back into lockdown and some serious whispers in the press about the Uk following suit next week.

I could really do without it because I've more than made up for the 4 month shut down from a business perspective, with retail being so strong, but the 8 week run up to xmas is money time. Fingers crossed.....

I have not been in any malls since this began, but wife tells me about 20%
of stores are gone, restaurants closing and anything to do with tourism
has be devastated. That was from the first wave.

They now say we are in the 2nd wave, so what does that look like for Business?
WHat is amusing to me, this province has a million people, we have not hit 1100 cases yet
64 deaths, 55 of those early on long term home that was handled very bad.
Currently 8 active cases, in other words as a province and region we have done very well.

If business has taken this kind of hit, with those low numbers, what does bad look like?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 31, 2020, 05:15:49 AM
France, Belgium and Germany all heading back into lockdown and some serious whispers in the press about the Uk following suit next week.

I could really do without it because I've more than made up for the 4 month shut down from a business perspective, with retail being so strong, but the 8 week run up to xmas is money time. Fingers crossed.....

I have not been in any malls since this began, but wife tells me about 20%
of stores are gone, restaurants closing and anything to do with tourism
has be devastated. That was from the first wave.

They now say we are in the 2nd wave, so what does that look like for Business?
WHat is amusing to me, this province has a million people, we have not hit 1100 cases yet
64 deaths, 55 of those early on long term home that was handled very bad.
Currently 8 active cases, in other words as a province and region we have done very well.

If business has taken this kind of hit, with those low numbers, what does bad look like?

With the new lockdowns in Germany malls are allowed to stay open but museums must close.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 31, 2020, 07:11:05 AM
It is clear that governments are now fully cognisant of the economic effects hence museums closing but shops (on the whole) remain open.

In the UK we are seeing the second wave in full effect. yes numbers are increased because the volume of testing is huge and so more of the infections are being picked up. On the other hand, the second wave was predicted to be larger than the first and, from the numbers I can see (positive test results and positivity rates) the second wave is larger.

NS1, what you are seeing is the effect I talked about months ago. The places that have not yet been hit hard are the places that have not YET been hit hard. The virus has no intelligence, it does a simple task very efficiently: it spreads from infected people to uninfected people whenever there is contact between the two groups.

We now know that the virus will spread undetected for quite a long time before numbers are high enough to show up and then it grows very fast. We now know, but it is not publicised widely, that we cannot reduce the virus to negligible levels unless enough people have immunity that the virus is unable to readily find new hosts. The thing will pass but it will never go away - there's no motivation to do as we did with smallpox becasue the disease simply is not as problematic as smallpox!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on October 31, 2020, 08:46:51 AM
I think everyone will get it now!

1 million in the UK that equals 1 in 60 once that goes down to 1 in 30 you better start getting fit and brace for impact.. probably best to just have it really now.. saves all the shit!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 31, 2020, 09:11:25 AM
Steveboy, if everyone gets it now we will need to be prepared for mass graves in public parks. Bodies stacked in meat freezers and hospitals closed for all except covid-19 cases. Along with that, expect to see health professionals walking off the job.

This isn't just 'the flu'.

This affects me directly. I have not been able to see my girlfriend apart from one weekend since March. I'd planned a visit in a couple of weeks, that's now off the table until December at the earliest. We had been meeting up once or twice a month until the plague hit us.

Now we, mum and I, need to plan for managing our tenancies because last time round we just needed to point them at money sources and collect the rents. Now it's a case of preserving the tenancies by protecting the businesses. It's no help that I am in a different country so she has to do the actual management by herself. She does a great job for an octagenarian but she has limits.

My own business took a big hit, although right now, after reconfiguring what I do, things look pretty good for the near term and, I think, immune to Covid-19 related effects.

It's a big bag of crap all round.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on October 31, 2020, 09:51:42 AM
Steveboy, if everyone gets it now we will need to be prepared for mass graves in public parks. Bodies stacked in meat freezers and hospitals closed for all except covid-19 cases. Along with that, expect to see health professionals walking off the job.

This isn't just 'the flu'.

This affects me directly. I have not been able to see my girlfriend apart from one weekend since March. I'd planned a visit in a couple of weeks, that's now off the table until December at the earliest. We had been meeting up once or twice a month until the plague hit us.

Now we, mum and I, need to plan for managing our tenancies because last time round we just needed to point them at money sources and collect the rents. Now it's a case of preserving the tenancies by protecting the businesses. It's no help that I am in a different country so she has to do the actual management by herself. She does a great job for an octagenarian but she has limits.

My own business took a big hit, although right now, after reconfiguring what I do, things look pretty good for the near term and, I think, immune to Covid-19 related effects.

It's a big bag of crap all round.

Of course no one wants it! BUT it looks like all will get it..

I think it gas gone past protecting everyone .. and most people just don't care either.. look at the beaches in the summer full of retards.. Down in Dorset where I come from there are big signs on the beach "Do not climb the cliffs it is dangerous " BUT they still do, every weekend the air ambulance or coast guard is resting people, last time I was at my parents the helicopter was buzzing around the cliff at midnight , coast guards up the cliffs, police, spot lights.. more frigging retards..

Thats why I have given up .. if it comes it comes.. what can I do nothing just get ready for it..If it was me in charge I would just shoot the idiots.. but in that case you would need to shoot 80% of the population.. which would probably be a good idea in any case..

By the way looks like a good movie coming out Covid 23


They just shoot the retards on the spot there!







Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on October 31, 2020, 10:04:43 AM
My own business hasnt been affected by covid yet. Workhours have soared though because of support calls with work from home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 31, 2020, 10:32:24 AM
My own business hasnt been affected by covid yet. Workhours have soared though because of support calls with work from home.

For me there was an immediate hit but then a recovery. Revenue was still well down but businesses reconfigured and I was seeing different clients. I was doing different work. In fact it was more interesting stuff. The problem was getting the right money for that work. That's an issue I have now solved so I am getting the right rate and my hours are now filled.

I think that many businesses have seen a similar pattern. My clientele is global. Interestingly the clients have also been coming from new locations. Recently I have added China, Israel and Indonesia to my world map. The USA has dropped away, although in value terms that might now be changing with a new client operating in India and the United States.

The new global situation is forcing businesses to reconfigure and reexamine how they operate and, longer term, I expect to benefit from that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on October 31, 2020, 12:16:35 PM
I'd planned a visit in a couple of weeks, that's now off the table until December at the earliest.

It wouldn't stop me. Just carry on as normal with sensible precautions is all I would do in your shoes. Find a way to work around the rules so you can so what you want to do.

If you're worried about legality, start a £10 Limited Company online, make you both directors, and any meeting you have is now a "work meeting" and thus exempt.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on October 31, 2020, 12:51:30 PM
Yeah, it ain't just me and her though. Life would be much easier if it were.

Additionally there's the issue of travel. This is likely to throw a spanner in the works there too. Last thing I want is to find myself marooned in the UK. Its much better over here!

What's happening with hotels? Restaurants are closed so that makes things harder too.

As it goes right now, assuming that lockdown is lifted on December 2nd as Boris said then my next trip will be delayed by just one weekend. I'd hoped to go over earlier but other stuff already got in the way.

Bloody kids and family. Who needs 'em!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on October 31, 2020, 01:38:48 PM

England goes into a second lockdown. PM Boris Johnson worried about the health system collapsing.


The only way to bring down case fatality rates is to make sure our health care systems don't collapse and to do so we need to slow the spread. If we let this virus run its natural course without slowing it down, case fatality rate will go up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on October 31, 2020, 01:49:48 PM
To be honest if one is going to get it here, now is the time.
Low rates of infection and hospital not over burdened.
Actually Hospitals are not near as busy, many don't go now
along with what they cancel, seems its quiet in Hospitals.
Although that is not what is being reported.

Problem I would have is being confined for 2 weeks
business wise would be major pain in the ass.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on October 31, 2020, 02:20:01 PM
So today I was nasally violated.

I will share the results as I am informed.


My results are back and I do not have COVID-19.

The other people who had contact with the same person who is positive are also negative. What is strange the one positive (outside our firm) and negative shared some weed, each taking multiple drags.

Having noted this the marina where we are, has from shall we say the spreader, other new cases. Another thing that is notable is that the test has a 5% degree of inaccuracy. That is a high percentage in my opinion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on November 01, 2020, 07:20:24 AM
England goes into a second lockdown.

I'm hopeful the government will tip up some more free cash.  :rouble-smile:

Nice clear roads and clean air from Thursday for at least a month.  :nod:

Everyone at home shopping online.  :nod: :king:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on November 01, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
England goes into a second lockdown.

I'm hopeful the government will tip up some more free cash.  :rouble-smile:

Nice clear roads and clean air from Thursday for at least a month.  :nod:

Everyone at home shopping online.  :nod: :king:

Free Cash??
where'd they find that?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on November 01, 2020, 08:24:31 AM
Free Cash??
where'd they find that?

Well, I guess our kids will be paying for it, but it feels free.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on November 01, 2020, 02:55:12 PM
Any chance of the Guardian and Independent going out of business due to the virus.. Now that would be good news!! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 04, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
CDC scientists make two Covid 19 admissions which destroy the official narrative!

Read this article!

https://thefreedomarticles.com/covid-admissions-cdc-scientists-accidentally-destroy-official-narrative/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on November 04, 2020, 05:04:50 PM
This is the best video I could find on staying safe from covid.
take minute and enjoy :)
https://www.facebook.com/8303218826/videos/377806583579690/?__cft__%5B0%5D=AZU6vhKwrdR_l3EFi-sF4CcasG5jWU4jx8OmtbIIkY78VJjNX1Ek7yMGqz3L2OMo6y73PSBBN6j3eAQXyYxtRuAjcpi62es2Ssl84ae5C8irdX4UZf-ogcPkXqHr_K2pfRF2N4IZv5C6yaskxTXc5oyPBE_VYenPRXZoLpkjoFA2lpEYdwFFxNEdGiOQrJYeWHo&__tn__=-R
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on November 05, 2020, 11:21:25 PM
So the furlough scheme now extended to March, November is now a write-off and whatever happens to the rest of us in December the hospitality sector is screwed for the year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on November 05, 2020, 11:24:07 PM
Any chance of the Guardian and Independent going out of business due to the virus.. Now that would be good news!! :thumbsup:
Probably not, the printed media are currently having a field day whipping up the plebs (that’s us) daily.

Government are using them perfectly to drip feed the information to soften the blow for us every time something shit is about to drop.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on November 06, 2020, 01:36:30 AM
Any chance of the Guardian and Independent going out of business due to the virus.. Now that would be good news!! :thumbsup:
Probably not, the printed media are currently having a field day whipping up the plebs (that’s us) daily.

Government are using them perfectly to drip feed the information to soften the blow for us every time something shit is about to drop.

Thats one of the problems of being a "Pleb" I think its best to work on fixing the pleb problem more than the virus.. but I guess that would cause major global issues if there were no plebs to control and fool.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 07, 2020, 01:13:46 PM
This is an excellent article, very informative.

https://greatgameindia.com/belgium-who-investigation-coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on November 07, 2020, 01:26:56 PM
this information is now so convoluted that no one could
ever know the real numbers. No deaths from the flu or any other disease.
If you have covid or they think you do, your death will be listed as covid 19.

How does any country or its people truly know how many have it, who died from it etc.
This leaves governments and or news to report whatever they want and
no one can say they are wrong or right.

Far to much evidence points to this being very wrong on so many levels.
Countires being run with no demarcatic process in the name of pandemic.
Government and large media outlets projecting what they want you do beleive.
Facts be damned. Giving control to power and money like never before.

Normal folks should be afraid, very afraid. this is just a taste of what can be done,
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 13, 2020, 07:30:23 AM
Want to be the first to get the vaccine. Pfizer has a special offer just for you. You can buy it in a special collector edition. Shoot! I did not know any body collected vaccines.  ???

https://www.theonion.com/pfizer-announces-first-batch-of-coronavirus-vaccine-wil-1845644705
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 13, 2020, 11:58:45 AM
Want to be the first to get the vaccine. Pfizer has a special offer just for you. You can buy it in a special collector edition. Shoot! I did not know any body collected vaccines.  ???

https://www.theonion.com/pfizer-announces-first-batch-of-coronavirus-vaccine-wil-1845644705

Its only side effect is having a woody. Not too bad
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 17, 2020, 08:48:18 PM
The Covid Coup.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/covid-coup
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 18, 2020, 09:15:26 AM
Latest on pfizer vaccine

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-vaccine-95-effective-in-final-analysis-to-seek-authorization-within-days/ar-BB1b7WnR?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 18, 2020, 06:57:22 PM
Chinese vaccine seems it might have serious problems and was taken out of Brazil.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 18, 2020, 10:41:07 PM
Anti lockdown proclamation.

https://justthenews.com/nearly-50000-doctors-and-scientists-630000-citizens-have-signed-global-anti-lockdown-proclamation
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 21, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
Russia has not made any of the data and shared how the data was collected about its vaccine. Now Russia is saying it has a second and third generation vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-wants-to-distribute-its-questionable-coronavirus-vaccine-to-other-countries-report/ar-BB1beD0b?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 21, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
Texan, your post is a mixture of your inability to read and misinformation in the linked article.

Stick to the easy reading. In the UK we use to have easy reading books in a series called Janet and John.

1) Russia has not claimed to be creating 2nd or 3rd generation covid-19 vaccines. Your linked article makes that clear. In the article it is clear that the claim made is that there are 2 or 3 vaccine candidates being worked on in Russia - that point is one of the few claims of fact that is correct.

2) The linked article makes claims unsubstantiated by fact. The Sputnik V vaccine candidate has had intermediate data presented for the appropriate stages of the trials.

3) The methodology for the trails has been shared, that's an integral part of the ongoing publication of results of the phased testing.

Texan77, the linked article, while inaccurate, was aimed at those who find reading something of a chore. Clearly the writer of the piece failed in that regard as well.
Ho-hum.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 21, 2020, 04:39:03 PM
I am sure you have proof of this you would like to share with everyone or at lease another article that supports you side of the story. .
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 21, 2020, 07:01:12 PM
The depopulation agenda of Bill Gate.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bill-gates-and-the-depopulation-agenda-robert-f-kennedy-junior-calls-for-an-investigation/5710021
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 24, 2020, 12:49:25 AM
I am sure you have proof of this you would like to share with everyone or at lease another article that supports you side of the story. .

Texan77, simply read your own words and compare them to your linked article. You showed that you were unable to accurately transcribe the words you read to your own post.

I cannot help you because you are unable to understand whist you read. That's your problem, not mine. No amount of linking to other texts csn surmount your inability to comprehend what you read.

I know that I have said this before, but it might be helpful to ask somebody to help you here.

Ask a teacher or other person of proven literacy to sit down with you and show you where you have made comprehension errors. I pointed the mistake out to you in my post sbove but you appear unable to see it for yourself.

Ask for help, partial illiteracy can be dealt with even in older people such as yourself.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on November 24, 2020, 12:07:01 PM
Spreading sunshine again, Andrew?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 24, 2020, 12:40:36 PM
Spreading sunshine again, Andrew?

I am neutral on the issue of sunshine.

Illiteracy is a curse and a blight upon our civilisation and, is very sadly, a largely self imposed condition. Not so neutral on that one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 25, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
Pandemic is over!!

https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-science-officer-pfizer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive-covid-tests-pandemic-over/5724753
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 25, 2020, 10:50:18 PM
Pandemic is over!!

https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-science-officer-pfizer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive-covid-tests-pandemic-over/5724753

There is a rather basic problem with the above. Hospitalizations for COVID/CORONA are up across the United States. I suspect even though treatments have improved, deaths will also increase per population nationwide/worldwide.

Do not forget Pfizer is right now leading the 'race'  in the development of a vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 25, 2020, 11:56:28 PM
Pandemic is over!!

https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-science-officer-pfizer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive-covid-tests-pandemic-over/5724753

There is a rather basic problem with the above. Hospitalizations for COVID/CORONA are up across the United States. I suspect even though treatments have improved, deaths will also increase per population nationwide/worldwide.

Do not forget Pfizer is right now leading the 'race'  in the development of a vaccine.


Read the article, please

Both test results and deaths have been deliberately manipulated. Especially deaths.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on November 26, 2020, 12:45:22 AM
Pandemic is over!!

https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-science-officer-pfizer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive-covid-tests-pandemic-over/5724753

There is a rather basic problem with the above. Hospitalizations for COVID/CORONA are up across the United States. I suspect even though treatments have improved, deaths will also increase per population nationwide/worldwide.

Do not forget Pfizer is right now leading the 'race'  in the development of a vaccine
.


Actually old chap, they are not, all research and development is being carried out by Bio tech a German/Turkish co in association with an Austrian co.
Pfizer are only the partner manufacturing co..
Google will help you..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 26, 2020, 12:48:29 AM
One of the biggest problems of the Pfizer vaccine is currently it needs to be stored at -70C (-94F).

Most local hospitals have -40C at best so only big cities can afford to store this stuff.

Netherlands solved it by using dry-ice during transport and then immediatly use it on arrival at the local hospital but America is far too big for this solution.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2020, 12:52:20 AM
One of the biggest problems of the Pfizer vaccine is currently it needs to be stored at -70C (-94F).

Most local hospitals have -40C at best so only big cities can afford to store this stuff.

Netherlands solved it by using dry-ice during transport and then immediatly use it on arrival at the local hospital but America is far too big for this solution.
Does the Moderna vaccine have this same problem?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on November 26, 2020, 12:58:42 AM
One of the biggest problems of the Pfizer vaccine is currently it needs to be stored at -70C (-94F).

Most local hospitals have -40C at best so only big cities can afford to store this stuff.

Netherlands solved it by using dry-ice during transport and then immediatly use it on arrival at the local hospital but America is far too big for this solution.

Are the dutchies using a Non approved vaccine.... ??
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on November 26, 2020, 12:59:40 AM
One of the biggest problems of the Pfizer vaccine is currently it needs to be stored at -70C (-94F).

Most local hospitals have -40C at best so only big cities can afford to store this stuff.

Netherlands solved it by using dry-ice during transport and then immediatly use it on arrival at the local hospital but America is far too big for this solution.
Does the Moderna vaccine have this same problem?
Yes it does, it also has to be stored at a seriously cold temp...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 26, 2020, 03:09:44 AM
One of the biggest problems of the Pfizer vaccine is currently it needs to be stored at -70C (-94F).

Most local hospitals have -40C at best so only big cities can afford to store this stuff.

Netherlands solved it by using dry-ice during transport and then immediatly use it on arrival at the local hospital but America is far too big for this solution.

Are the dutchies using a Non approved vaccine.... ??

Not that I know of, they are using test-tubes with temp-sensors instead of the real thing to solve the issues for when we get our first access to it. (probably dec-2021 on a mass scale)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 26, 2020, 04:25:52 AM
I read somewhere that the Oxford vaccine is a lot cheaper and can be kept at temperatures much closer to zero. I also understand that the ones needing to be kept at -70 or thereabouts, require mixing with some sort of liquid before administering.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on November 26, 2020, 04:39:49 AM
I read somewhere that the Oxford vaccine is a lot cheaper and can be kept at temperatures much closer to zero. I also understand that the ones needing to be kept at -70 or thereabouts, require mixing with some sort of liquid before administering.


I heard from a Chinese source which, in turn, quoted from an ex-MI6 staff that ChiNazi has collected newly mutated Wuhan virus in Denmark.  They will be launching a 2nd round biowarfare attack.

Their goal is to render Pfizer's and Oxford's vaccine void!!!

Believe it or not?!?  It is up to you, but I definitely rate it as an event of very high probability!

Just forget any possible vaccine which can save us from Wuhan virus as long as ChiNazi exists!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 26, 2020, 06:01:28 AM
I read somewhere that the Oxford vaccine is a lot cheaper and can be kept at temperatures much closer to zero. I also understand that the ones needing to be kept at -70 or thereabouts, require mixing with some sort of liquid before administering.


I heard from a Chinese source which, in turn, quoted from an ex-MI6 staff that ChiNazi has collected newly mutated Wuhan virus in Denmark.  They will be launching a 2nd round biowarfare attack.

Their goal is to render Pfizer's and Oxford's vaccine void!!!

Believe it or not?!?  It is up to you, but I definitely rate it as an event of very high probability!

Just forget any possible vaccine which can save us from Wuhan virus as long as ChiNazi exists!

I suspect the worlds intelligence agencies are saying nothing but watching China like a hawk. If there is any kind of 'warfare' going on, that ship has sailed. A bit like Pearl Harbour, the element of surprise has passed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 26, 2020, 07:33:30 AM
Pandemic is over!!

https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-science-officer-pfizer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive-covid-tests-pandemic-over/5724753

There is a rather basic problem with the above. Hospitalizations for COVID/CORONA are up across the United States. I suspect even though treatments have improved, deaths will also increase per population nationwide/worldwide.

Do not forget Pfizer is right now leading the 'race'  in the development of a vaccine.


Read the article, please

Both test results and deaths have been deliberately manipulated. Especially deaths.

I have reread the article, while there are some general observations and statements that make sense. Nowhere does it explain the stark present reality of hospitalizations due to CORONA/COVID.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2020, 11:12:59 AM
Pandemic is over!!

https://www.globalresearch.ca/chief-science-officer-pfizer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive-covid-tests-pandemic-over/5724753

There is a rather basic problem with the above. Hospitalizations for COVID/CORONA are up across the United States. I suspect even though treatments have improved, deaths will also increase per population nationwide/worldwide.

Do not forget Pfizer is right now leading the 'race'  in the development of a vaccine.


Read the article, please

Both test results and deaths have been deliberately manipulated. Especially deaths.

I have reread the article, while there are some general observations and statements that make sense. Nowhere does it explain the stark present reality of hospitalizations due to CORONA/COVID.

People can easily become disabled due to panic attacks and then seek medical attention.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on November 26, 2020, 01:13:26 PM
Sputnik vaccine testing results were submitted to the EU for evaluation on 22nd Oct 2020, a couple of weeks before any other vaccine was submitted.

It is hoped that the EU will complete its due diligence assessments as quickly as possible, and award approval of the vaccine for use within EU countries.

Now that it has been submitted, whether approved or not, EU countries are legally allowed to place orders for the vaccine, hence why Hungary has received samples.

The vaccine for the EU countries is planned to be manufactured in Germany..

HTH..

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on November 26, 2020, 02:50:24 PM
It looks as if the Oxford/Astra Zeneca trial is going to be redone, it seems that they have made some grave errors in their testing program.

I understand that they have had 1 death amongst their volunteers, who caught something quiet rare but often occurs in vaccinated persons..

HTH
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on November 26, 2020, 03:00:45 PM
Pfizer has to be  kept at -85.
canada bough special medical freezers
for storage, being put in place now.
they are shipped in dry ice for transportation.

Maderno is near as bad and can be kept in normal freezers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 26, 2020, 04:08:22 PM
No, the Astra Zeneca testing is not going to be redone. There's no expectation of delay in approval in the EU or UK.

Whats happening is a new small scale trial with modified doses due to the results already obtained with the reduced initial dose. That makes sense because a lower effective dose will enable more people to be vaccinated from the planned production.

I think that it is likely that other companies will also run modified dosage trials given the AZ results.

Back in October there was a death of a trial participant. The participant was from the control group and had not received the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2020, 06:03:32 PM
No, the Astra Zeneca testing is not going to be redone. There's no expectation of delay in approval in the EU or UK.

Whats happening is a new small scale trial with modified doses due to the results already obtained with the reduced initial dose. That makes sense because a lower effective dose will enable more people to be vaccinated from the planned production.

I think that it is likely that other companies will also run modified dosage trials given the AZ results.

Back in October there was a death of a trial participant. The participant was from the control group and had not received the vaccine.

Did they say what the person died from? Thank you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on November 27, 2020, 12:10:44 AM
No, the Astra Zeneca testing is not going to be redone. There's no expectation of delay in approval in the EU or UK.

Whats happening is a new small scale trial with modified doses due to the results already obtained with the reduced initial dose. That makes sense because a lower effective dose will enable more people to be vaccinated from the planned production.

I think that it is likely that other companies will also run modified dosage trials given the AZ results.

Back in October there was a death of a trial participant. The participant was from the control group and had not received the vaccine.

Did they say what the person died from? Thank you.

transverse myelitis, an adverse effect to the placebo being used.

A second person in Brazil died of the same thing, and a 3rd in the UK is still in a serious condition.

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/azd1222-covid-vaccine-trials-astrazeneca/

It seems that the placebo being used is the smallpox vaccine, maybe someone with more knowledge than me can verify this.

HTH..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 27, 2020, 01:29:14 AM
People can easily become disabled due to panic attacks and then seek medical attention.

Yes, I have seen that happen with females.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2020, 06:38:48 PM
People can easily become disabled due to panic attacks and then seek medical attention.

Yes, I have seen that happen with females.

 :ROFL:  :-X
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 30, 2020, 08:05:39 AM
Nope, not smallpox. Meningitis.

The reason that a vaccine was used rather than saline was that a saline injection has little or no physical reaction so many people will know which of the test groups they were in. Using a vaccine in both groups enables the researchers to better conceal who has had the Covid-19 vaccine.

I am guessing that the choice to use saline in some subjects and not others was to test the difference between the two testing modes.

Transverse myelitis has NOT been linked to vaccine use and is usually idiopathic which means, it just happens, no identifiable cause. It can also happen post-infection but that's not the norm.

The July case was not in the vaccine group and did not die, it turned out the person has multiple sclerosis. In September one vaccine recipient had a case of transverse myelitis, she left hospital after a few days. 

That's two cases. I'd thought there had been a death in the placebo group, that was incorrect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 02, 2020, 11:59:32 AM
UK approves vaccine,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-the-u-k-approved-a-covid-vaccine-so-fast-and-what-s-next/ar-BB1bz9J4?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 02, 2020, 02:03:09 PM
They're starting to vaccinate healthcare workers and people in old folks homes next week. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on December 03, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
UK approves vaccine,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-the-u-k-approved-a-covid-vaccine-so-fast-and-what-s-next/ar-BB1bz9J4?ocid=msedgntp
Sit back and watch this government balls that up next
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on December 03, 2020, 03:31:28 AM
UK approves vaccine,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-the-u-k-approved-a-covid-vaccine-so-fast-and-what-s-next/ar-BB1bz9J4?ocid=msedgntp
Sit back and watch this government balls that up next

 :ROFL:

Here's hoping the weakest and most vulnerable get the vaccine over the coming months and the rest of us can just crack on. If you don't feel safe in a cafe, restaurant, stadium or other indoor venue, then don't go.

It might sound selfish but its the minority who are holding us all up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on December 03, 2020, 03:54:06 AM
UK approves vaccine,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-the-u-k-approved-a-covid-vaccine-so-fast-and-what-s-next/ar-BB1bz9J4?ocid=msedgntp
Sit back and watch this government balls that up next

 :ROFL:

Here's hoping the weakest and most vulnerable get the vaccine over the coming months and the rest of us can just crack on. If you don't feel safe in a cafe, restaurant, stadium or other indoor venue, then don't go.

It might sound selfish but its the minority who are holding us all up.
Absolutely correct, personally in such a situation I can’t help thinking of airline announcements - where parents are encouraged to put their oxygen mask on prior to attending to a child - treat those who need to keep the country and economy moving first and create herd immunity then the vulnerable can move around again safely with at least some of our country still moving.

Selfish, damn f’ing right - example - our neighbours 1 x clinically vulnerable with in laws with 1 x ultra clinically vulnerable in household, whole lot in 1 house yesterday with another visitor + a trade person there most of the day.

Yet I have to risk mine and my families livelihood, my parents are unlikely to be able to visit this Xmas as we are tier 3 and all hotels shut and my wife can’t see her family either - end of tether absolutely bloody reached here
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on December 03, 2020, 04:51:48 AM
UK approves vaccine,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-the-u-k-approved-a-covid-vaccine-so-fast-and-what-s-next/ar-BB1bz9J4?ocid=msedgntp
Sit back and watch this government balls that up next

 :ROFL:

Here's hoping the weakest and most vulnerable get the vaccine over the coming months and the rest of us can just crack on. If you don't feel safe in a cafe, restaurant, stadium or other indoor venue, then don't go.

It might sound selfish but its the minority who are holding us all up.

 You've got that right! Our CTV news here let the cat out of the bag last month that as of Nov 15th, out of 10,947 covid deaths nation wide only 166 people died outside of long term care homes. They deleted the broadcast after people started putting two and two together and started protesting.

https://twitter.com/LauraLynnTT/status/1332865448900059137

 Holding a whole country hostage over 166 deaths instead of locking down the care homes and protecting the vulnerable. It's criminal
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 03, 2020, 05:39:38 AM
UK approves vaccine,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-the-u-k-approved-a-covid-vaccine-so-fast-and-what-s-next/ar-BB1bz9J4?ocid=msedgntp
Sit back and watch this government balls that up next

 :ROFL:

Here's hoping the weakest and most vulnerable get the vaccine over the coming months and the rest of us can just crack on. If you don't feel safe in a cafe, restaurant, stadium or other indoor venue, then don't go.

It might sound selfish but its the minority who are holding us all up.

 You've got that right! Our CTV news here let the cat out of the bag last month that as of Nov 15th, out of 10,947 covid deaths nation wide only 166 people died outside of long term care homes. They deleted the broadcast after people started putting two and two together and started protesting.

https://twitter.com/LauraLynnTT/status/1332865448900059137

 Holding a whole country hostage over 166 deaths instead of locking down the care homes and protecting the vulnerable. It's criminal

While I suspect the numbers are being massaged the above is nonsense or fantasy.

Please take your shoes and socks off and try counting, again.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on December 03, 2020, 12:55:37 PM
 What are you talking about Av  ???

 !0,947 total deaths in Canada

 10,781 were in long term care homes

 Leaving 166 deaths outside care homes.

 Its right on the video, the newscaster showed the numbers herself. Better recount your own toes!   :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on December 03, 2020, 01:08:39 PM
What are you talking about Av  ???

 !0,947 total deaths in Canada

 10,781 were in long term care homes

 Leaving 166 deaths outside care homes.

 Its right on the video, the newscaster showed the numbers herself. Better recount your own toes!   :)

Those stats are mind boggling. I’d be up in arms if my business went down the tubes whilst the government tried to sweep it under the rug.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on December 03, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
Average age of COVID 19 victims in the Uk (10/2020) - 82.4.

I think I’d take that now!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 03, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Absolutely correct, personally in such a situation I can’t help thinking of airline announcements - where parents are encouraged to put their oxygen mask on prior to attending to a child - treat those who need to keep the country and economy moving first and create herd immunity then the vulnerable can move around again safely with at least some of our country still moving.

The airlines instructions are mostly about survival. If you first try to fix your child and suffocate, maybe the child is physically not strong enough to fix it on the parent, or perhaps they don't know how. And what if you suffocate before you can put it on your child because they're scared and it takes some time to fit the mask. Then you both die.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on December 03, 2020, 02:23:29 PM
Somebody continues to lie to us. New evidence recently release is that masks nor social distancing has a shred of science behind it. I declared that 8 months ago. Now the virus wasn't suppose even been discovered in the US before January 14. The Red Cross just decided to test Dec 2019 blood and voil'a, they find covid anti bodies

https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/press-release/2020/study-suggests-possible-new-covid-19-timeline-in-the-us.html (https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/press-release/2020/study-suggests-possible-new-covid-19-timeline-in-the-us.html)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 03, 2020, 03:18:11 PM
D672 I know enough people older than 60 and none of them have moved on (or as Andrew is fond of saying fallen off the perch).

I also know enough people in the sub 60 group who have died as a result of contracting CORONA. Is the virus serious, yes. Is it as lethal as the media and some politicians have made it to be, I doubt it. I spoke with my ex and she confirms that in the UK the numbers are no where near the percentages that Canada that you are noting.

She is head of a department in a UK hospital.

The simple reality is any one of any age can die due to contracting CORONA, but yes the elderly are more vulnerable. The percentages you are noting are wrong at least for the UK and the US.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 03, 2020, 03:31:16 PM
Just did a bit of further research using World-O-Meters.

In the state of New York in May approximately 48% of the deaths were in patients who contracted CORONA were older than 75 years.

If you add in those between 65 and 74 years old it is another 24%.

I suspect today with improved protocol to handle the virus these percentages have declined.

This is high percentage but allot higher to the approximate 1% being discussed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 03, 2020, 04:24:35 PM
The big mistake that is often made is that with this virus you either die or get well. The number of people with long term disabilities caused by the virus is a number of times as much as those who die from it. This virus is very expensive to world economies not only from shut downs, and work stoppages but also adding disable people to the governments roles. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 03, 2020, 04:42:34 PM
Just did a bit of further research using World-O-Meters.

In the state of New York in May approximately 48% of the deaths were in patients who contracted CORONA were older than 75 years.

If you add in those between 65 and 74 years old it is another 24%.

I suspect today with improved protocol to handle the virus these percentages have declined.

This is a high percentage but allot higher LOWER to the approximate 1% being discussed.


Dyslexia at its finest.  :nod:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on December 03, 2020, 05:01:02 PM
D672 I know enough people older than 60 and none of them have moved on (or as Andrew is fond of saying fallen off the perch).

I also know enough people in the sub 60 group who have died as a result of contracting CORONA. Is the virus serious, yes. Is it as lethal as the media and some politicians have made it to be, I doubt it. I spoke with my ex and she confirms that in the UK the numbers are no where near the percentages that Canada that you are noting.

She is head of a department in a UK hospital.

The simple reality is any one of any age can die due to contracting CORONA, but yes the elderly are more vulnerable. The percentages you are noting are wrong at least for the UK and the US.


 Where did you get the notion that I was talking about anywhere but in Canada?  I gave info about the numbers HERE, numbers given out by the govt. Numbers reported by one of our top two national media outlets who is putting the fear of God into us about the virus just as much as the govt, not some other unknown media outlet promoting a conspiracy theory. It is not in the best interests of a media who is promoting restrictions and lockdowns to uncover the fact that very few people in the general public die from corona, they screwed up when they tried to stress why so much money was needed to protect long term care homes, and people saw it.
 
 So if you have some evidence showing that the numbers they claim are not right then by all means, show us. Don't try telling me it is bullshit just because of what is happening on other countries, or what someone from another country says is happening there. My info came right from official sources.   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 03, 2020, 06:16:20 PM
CORONA does not respect statistics ~ Sorry I doubt that Canada is an anomaly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on December 03, 2020, 07:00:45 PM
 Canada is way way less densely populated than US or UK. Trying to compare the stats between them is ridiculous. Why do you think our cases per capita are a lot lower than theirs?
You're entitled to your opinion but don't come and say it's false info without expecting to be challenged about it when you  use unrealistic reasoning like that.

 And here are more stats for you...

 Suicides are up 200-300%
 Drugs and Alcohol use are up
 People like this man died while waiting for "non essential" operations this spring and summer, although they seen the light and haven't restricted those again
 https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/corbella-alberta-man-died-from-the-lockdown-not-covid-19

 So you can be as dramatic as you want, but when you have a 99% chance of recovering from corona and you are ruining people's lives and causing deaths from the side effects of the lockdowns I say there is something wrong with this picture! Protect the vulnerable and let people go on with their lives, let them work instead of cooping them up in their homes and watch all they worked for all their lives slowly get taken away because they can't make their payments anymore.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 04, 2020, 01:10:40 AM
You are entitled to your opinions. But I do not get dramatic over numbers, they are just numbers.*

The statistics available that world wide the percentages do not reflect what you claim. I am confident if some one looked for the Canadian numbers one would see a higher percentage than what you indicate. Using some 'news' report that is no longer available is obtuse.

* Exception if the numbers were on a canvas painted by J. Johns I might say, WOW!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on December 04, 2020, 08:07:04 AM
So you can be as dramatic as you want, but when you have a 99% chance of recovering from corona and you are ruining people's lives and causing deaths from the side effects of the lockdowns I say there is something wrong with this picture! Protect the vulnerable and let people go on with their lives, let them work instead of cooping them up in their homes and watch all they worked for all their lives slowly get taken away because they can't make their payments anymore.
All correct, we are now at the point where the cure is worse than the disease!!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on December 04, 2020, 08:47:17 AM
Canada is way way less densely populated than US or UK. Trying to compare the stats between them is ridiculous. Why do you think our cases per capita are a lot lower than theirs?
You're entitled to your opinion but don't come and say it's false info without expecting to be challenged about it when you  use unrealistic reasoning like that.

 And here are more stats for you...

 Suicides are up 200-300%
 Drugs and Alcohol use are up
 People like this man died while waiting for "non essential" operations this spring and summer, although they seen the light and haven't restricted those again
 https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/corbella-alberta-man-died-from-the-lockdown-not-covid-19

 So you can be as dramatic as you want, but when you have a 99% chance of recovering from corona and you are ruining people's lives and causing deaths from the side effects of the lockdowns I say there is something wrong with this picture! Protect the vulnerable and let people go on with their lives, let them work instead of cooping them up in their homes and watch all they worked for all their lives slowly get taken away because they can't make their payments anymore.

Gotta agree with this post. Shield the weak whilst the rest of us crack on!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2020, 10:28:15 AM
So you can be as dramatic as you want, but when you have a 99% chance of recovering from corona and you are ruining people's lives and causing deaths from the side effects of the lockdowns I say there is something wrong with this picture! Protect the vulnerable and let people go on with their lives, let them work instead of cooping them up in their homes and watch all they worked for all their lives slowly get taken away because they can't make their payments anymore.
All correct, we are now at the point where the cure is worse than the disease!!

This has been my feeling for a long time, however with due respect none of us work in a hospital like Av's ex.

I sincerely believe good and inexpensive treatment such as hydroxychloroquin have been withheld from us.

The controlled narrative and deliberate inducement of anxiety fear paranoia and getting neighbor to turn against neighbor was part of the plan.

Seeing how far they can push us was part of the plan.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 04, 2020, 05:01:07 PM
So you can be as dramatic as you want, but when you have a 99% chance of recovering from corona and you are ruining people's lives and causing deaths from the side effects of the lockdowns I say there is something wrong with this picture! Protect the vulnerable and let people go on with their lives, let them work instead of cooping them up in their homes and watch all they worked for all their lives slowly get taken away because they can't make their payments anymore.
All correct, we are now at the point where the cure is worse than the disease!!

This has been my feeling for a long time, however with due respect none of us work in a hospital like Av's ex.

I sincerely believe good and inexpensive treatment such as hydroxychloroquin have been withheld from us.

The controlled narrative and deliberate inducement of anxiety fear paranoia and getting neighbor to turn against neighbor was part of the plan.

Seeing how far they can push us was part of the plan.

The part that I bolded is 100% my thought as well.

Myself and Danchik? have commented on some of the parallels to the AIDS/HIV epidemic. It is instrumental to see that history looking at CORONA/COVID. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on December 05, 2020, 04:07:23 AM
I beleive I said the cure, would be far worse than the cause,
10 pages ago. it has been proven densely populated areas
are far more dangerous, due to the simple fact it is harder
to stay separated or control your own enviroment as easily.

Where will they make vaccines mandatory?
In Canada that debate rages full tilt now.
I don't think it will be made mandatory,

But mark my words, they will control us with this,
no its not mandatory, but you can't get on plane or go here or there.
Many suspect a vaccine passport that you will have to have to
let you do what you want, Scary in they want to control us
and putting systems in place to do exactly that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on December 05, 2020, 09:58:20 AM
Just looked into travelling Moscow - Los Angeles in January with Aeroflot and this is what I was told.

I have to quarantine 14 days when I arrive in LA and I need to take a coronavirus test 3 days before I return (and be negative for course).

Other than that business as usual.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on December 05, 2020, 12:10:19 PM
For all the talk of closed borders,
Snow birds here who go to FLorida each year
are having no problem going, currently
when they return, they have to self Isolate 14 days.
they go for 4-6 months, so might be different by then.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 05, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Interesting listened to a radio report. There seems to be a large resistance to taking the forthcoming vaccine. This negative sentiment is around 35 ~ 45 %. To get to the 60% percentage for a degree of 'Herd Immunity", those refusing most be lower in percentage.

Curious to know who will receive the vaccine. Trust me it will not be a sugar cube.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on December 06, 2020, 03:39:42 AM
Polls show 65% of Canadians want the vaccine.
I am not sure yet, but figure I am in the last bunch to
even qualify to recieve it, so I get to see what happens.

I figure 1.5 to 2.5 billion people will have got it by the
time I am due, give me some relative info first :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 06, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
Curious to know who will receive the vaccine.

The Queen and Prince Philip will be among the first here. Them having it will encourage the masses the media says.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on December 06, 2020, 10:19:13 AM
Curious to know who will receive the vaccine.

The Queen and Prince Philip will be among the first here. Them having it will encourage the masses the media says.

You will also get injected with a vaccine tube made in UK, BUT actually it is filled with an unknown liquid in China counterfeit factories.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on December 10, 2020, 04:07:52 PM
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-09-fda-reveals-serious-health-conditions-from-covid-19-vaccinations.html

Behind closed doors, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has discussed a long list of serious health problems that will be caused by new covid-19 injections. These “adverse events” are not publicized because vaccine companies and their media cohorts need everyone to believe that the vaccines are “safe and effective.”

But the list of adverse events and negative health outcomes is a matter of public record now. A list of 22 negative health outcomes (including death) were discussed on October 22, 2020 during the FDA’s advisory committee meeting titled, Vaccines and Related Biological Products. The list is part of a larger presentation by Steve Anderson, PhD, MPP Director, Office of Biostatistics & Epidemiology, Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER). This list is a working draft of very serious adverse events and does not include all the minor and unstudied negative health outcomes that will result from these injections.

FDA reports 22 serious health issues caused by covid-19 vaccination​

These health issues include transverse myelitis, a serious nervous system disorder. The vaccine can cause the immune system to attack its own cells, interrupting the messages that the spinal cord nerves send throughout the body. This issue is similar to paralytic polio infections and can cause pain, muscle weakness, paralysis, sensory problems, or bladder and bowel dysfunction. The condition requires extensive rehabilitation and some people are left with major disabilities. This list includes other autoimmune diseases that may arise, along with arthritis and joint pain. One of the most troubling autoimmune diseases that could occur is acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, a condition marked by sudden, widespread inflammation of the brain and spinal cord.

The FDA also warns of potential for negative pregnancy and birth outcomes. The vaccine is designed to attack coronavirus spike proteins transcribed by the vaccine’s messenger RNA, but these spike proteins contain syncytin-1, a protein created by endogenous retroviruses for placenta development in humans. After covid-19 vaccination, an individual’s immune cells will be trained to attack syncytin-1, leading to potential miscarriages, birth defects and infertility.

CDC preparing to list vaccine injuries as complications to covid-19

The list includes multistage inflammatory syndrome in children, which involves inflammation of the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes or gastrointestinal organs. The list also includes Kawasaki’s disease, a common vaccine injury for children under five. This adverse event is a vague collection of symptoms, including fever, rash, swelling of the hands and feet, irritation and redness of the whites of the eyes, swollen lymph glands in the neck, and irritation and inflammation of the mouth, lips and throat.

The Centers for Disease Control is preparing to list these adverse events as childhood complications from covid-19, as public health officials prepare to cover up most of these types of vaccine injuries. As such, the public is not being informed of the risks associated with rushed mRNA vaccines and are constantly misled about the origins of disease. This widespread medical malpractice and wrongful death has been going on for decades with the childhood vaccine schedule and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), which are “unexplained deaths” clustered around the vaccine schedule. Due to wide scale coercion and fraud, governments and pharmaceutical companies are in violation of the Nuremberg code of medical ethics and are committing crimes against humanity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 13, 2020, 04:23:27 PM

Hundreds of Chinese Communist party members are working for our vaccine makers and other industries. Probably to steal secrets. They have 400,000 students studying in our universities and the students are required to bring that education back home to benefit China. If they only allowed their people to be free, they wouldn't need America for ideas and education.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/first-section-8192-chinese-communist-party-members-names-positions-etc-leaked-public/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 14, 2020, 10:14:25 AM
Hundreds of Chinese Communist party members are working for our vaccine makers and other industries. Probably to steal secrets.

The Chinese already have their own vaccine.

Today they announced here that London and much of the south is going to tier 3 (restaurants closed, etc) the same as the north.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55306928

They also claim a "new strain" has appeared. Much more virulent, blah blah. I can't say I entirely believe that. Probably just fake news designed to push more people into having the vaccine. Of course, the vaccine works on this "new strain" too. That's handy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 15, 2020, 02:11:54 AM
The Netherlands are going full-lockdown until 19 januari.

Only vital stores are remaining open:

- Grocery stores
- Dentists
- ETc.

But not:
Warehouses selling other things than groceries (ikea for instance).

Gonna be a boring time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on December 15, 2020, 03:20:23 AM
The Netherlands are going full-lockdown until 19 januari.

Only vital stores are remaining open:

- Grocery stores
- Dentists
- ETc.

But not:
Warehouses selling other things than groceries (ikea for instance).

Gonna be a boring time.
I’m sure we’ll follow anytime soon, probably within days, tier systems aren’t working, shops are swamped with people, anything that’s open is crowded - non-essential shop closure seems inevitable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on December 15, 2020, 06:14:06 AM
The Netherlands are going full-lockdown until 19 januari.

Only vital stores are remaining open:

- Grocery stores
- Dentists
- ETc.

But not:
Warehouses selling other things than groceries (ikea for instance).

Gonna be a boring time.
I’m sure we’ll follow anytime soon, probably within days, tier systems aren’t working, shops are swamped with people, anything that’s open is crowded - non-essential shop closure seems inevitable.
Also a u-turn on the Christmas regulations won’t come as a surprise either
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 17, 2020, 08:09:10 PM
I read there's a major mutation of the coronavirus in the UK. What do you guys think about it?

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/uk-finds-new-mutation-of-covid-19-behind-rapid-spread-in-london/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tfcrew on December 17, 2020, 11:05:34 PM
Who's going to pay for 6 billion double doses of vaccine?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 18, 2020, 04:49:24 AM
I read there's a major mutation of the coronavirus in the UK. What do you guys think about it?

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/uk-finds-new-mutation-of-covid-19-behind-rapid-spread-in-london/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

I'm not believing much of it now.

All viruses mutate. Often they get weaker.

The current numbers here in Manchester are showing an infection rate of 159 per 100,000 people. Or 0.159%

From that 0.159%, we know that fatalities are less than half a percent, so if we use 0.5%, that is 0.79 of a person likely to die.

Put another way, less than one death per 100,000 people infected. And they are likely to be over 85. And for this, the government has people wearing face nappies and half the country closed. Its all bollocks.

The fake news will keep inventing (or be fed) new reasons why this will be the new normal, more virulent strain, Covid 20 from Russia, Covid 21 from North Korea, etc. Its not likely to end any time soon. The vaccine will take two years or so to be given to those who want it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 18, 2020, 05:34:32 AM
The current numbers here in Manchester are showing an infection rate of 159 per 100,000 people. Or 0.159%
From that 0.159%, we know that fatalities are less than half a percent, so if we use 0.5%, that is 0.79 of a person likely to die.


You're forgetting 2 things with these numbers:

1) The death rate is with good hospital care. If they are overwhelmed, see italy in march.
2) Many people who don't die, will require lifelong treatment for asthma, copd, and various other nasty stuff.

Ok or a 3)

3) People really do get to be very, very ill and take upto 6 months to fully recover if number 1,2 don't apply.

No my friend, Covid is a dangerous disease and I don't like people who do not follow the rules.

Are the rules perfect? No of course not.

Are the rules effective? I'm thinking they can be lots better fleshed-out to screen the irregularities and edge-cases.

For instance:
2 people can visit a 7-people family home, but the other way around is forbidden (in netherlands). It does involve the same 9 persons.

But the end-game is to get the infection rate below 1.00  , currently in NL the infection rate is 2.1 which is why we went full lockdown for a month. Mouthmasks, social distancing, closing of shops, all of it is effective in getting that number closer or below 1.00.

Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 18, 2020, 06:32:53 AM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on December 18, 2020, 07:39:12 AM
I'm not believing much of it now.

All viruses mutate. Often they get weaker.

The current numbers here in Manchester are showing an infection rate of 159 per 100,000 people. Or 0.159%

From that 0.159%, we know that fatalities are less than half a percent, so if we use 0.5%, that is 0.79 of a person likely to die.

Put another way, less than one death per 100,000 people infected. And they are likely to be over 85. And for this, the government has people wearing face nappies and half the country closed. Its all bollocks.

The fake news will keep inventing (or be fed) new reasons why this will be the new normal, more virulent strain, Covid 20 from Russia, Covid 21 from North Korea, etc. Its not likely to end any time soon. The vaccine will take two years or so to be given to those who want it.

I've not yet become a disbeliever but I do think that we've all overreacted to a virus we knew nothing about 10 months ago and its too late now for any government (UK Conservatives) to say hang on, the cure is worse than the disease. The liberals and the anti Tories will be all over them, shouting murderer from the roof top. Regular flu and viral deaths normally associated with the winter cull, all seem to have been replaced by covid and the news channels now talk about covid deaths without explaining exactly what a covid death is. All very confusing and misleading.

Meanwhile children in kids hospitals are dying in their hundreds because the focus is on covid, cancer patients are being back seated in their droves, divorces are through the roof as is domestic violence, drink and drug consumption at unhealthy levels, unemployment increasing all the time and the economy down the pan.

We need to have some kind of balance or we'll all suffer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 18, 2020, 08:28:44 AM

We need to have some kind of balance or we'll all suffer.
The Netherlands tried that, mild shutdowns that didn't last long.

The only rule that has been persistently kept since march is the 1.5M distancing in public and 1-way-shopping streets so you have to figure out which shops to visit before starting to walk (or you can go around the block a few times).

But now, the government is facing the fact that many young people don't want to follow the rules and infections are going up.

So full lockdown until jan-19-2021
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on December 18, 2020, 03:39:24 PM
UK 1.5 metres
Canada 2 metres
Orginally announcement was
true effectiveness is 6 metres
but with that standard, nothing could be open
not enough room,

Some places 1 week,
some 10 days,
some 2 weeks,
what ever Gov. thinks they can get you to follow.

Number of deaths year over year, is almost identical
In Canada if you have covid and die, your death is listed
as covid, regardless of the cause.
real numbers are low and if we discount all the added numbers
stupid low.

Economy is in trouble,
jobless rates rise,
wife and child abuse up incredible high.
Suscides up 40%
mental healther issues up 400%

People losing business, homes, jobs.
the list is endless, go read real numbers
stop watching main stream media which feeds
you, your daily dose of whats good for you.

Now we have vaccine they don't know how well
it works, for how long? long term side affects?
Oh and you will likely need medical passport,
ahh now they can track you, another real bad thing
Another freedom, taken away.

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on December 18, 2020, 04:40:17 PM

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

A few points to ponder. The vaccines are supposedly 95% effective. What isn't clear, is that 5% of those vaccinated can/will still get the chinavirus? What is that 95% effective for? Does vaccination mean chances of surviving infection of the virus go from 97.7% which it is now to 99% or 100%. Does that number increase for the unvaccinated to? If not, why not? If the survival rate for the virus is 97.7%, why get the vaccination that is only 95%? Mathematically it would appear we have better odds getting the chinavirus and being done with it

I still get the feeling we're being lied to. I won't be standing in line to get the vaccination
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 18, 2020, 09:47:01 PM
Well guess what? They are partying in Wuhan and I mean BIG TIME!!

Guess there's no surge in China, funny how that works, huh?!!

https://www.newswars.com/reuters-celebrates-maskless-partygoers-living-it-up-in-wuhan/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 18, 2020, 09:49:48 PM
Because mhr7 might claim the article is a lie and from a "tin foil hat" site, here is the original article from Reuters.

https://widerimage.reuters.com/story/one-night-in-wuhan-covid-19s-original-epicentre-re-learns-how-to-party
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 18, 2020, 10:11:26 PM

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

A few points to ponder. The vaccines are supposedly 95% effective. What isn't clear, is that 5% of those vaccinated can/will still get the chinavirus? What is that 95% effective for? Does vaccination mean chances of surviving infection of the virus go from 97.7% which it is now to 99% or 100%. Does that number increase for the unvaccinated to? If not, why not? If the survival rate for the virus is 97.7%, why get the vaccination that is only 95%? Mathematically it would appear we have better odds getting the chinavirus and being done with it

I still get the feeling we're being lied to. I won't be standing in line to get the vaccination

If you get the vaccine there is a 95% chance you won't get the virus, so the 97% survivability rate doesn't matter. If you don't get the vaccine there is a 12-13% chance you will get the virus, so the 97% does matter. Keep in mind that a fair number of those who contract the virus and live still have long term negative complications. You're much better off getting the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 18, 2020, 10:22:19 PM
now they can track you, another real bad thing
Another freedom, taken away.

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

Why/how would they track you in a bad way and what freedom will you lose? What scares me is people questioning EVERYTHING. It's a vaccine that's 95% effective, get it! It isn't about trusting the government, it's about trusting the scientific and medical communities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 18, 2020, 10:27:14 PM
now they can track you, another real bad thing
Another freedom, taken away.

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

Why/how would they track you in a bad way and what freedom will you lose? What scares me is people questioning EVERYTHING. It's a vaccine that's 95% effective, get it! It isn't about trusting the government, it's about trusting the scientific and medical communities.

    :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:        :ROFL:

Are you really that obtuse? Seriously?

We don't know how effective the vaccines are in real life with Millions of people taking them, nor will we be told the truth if/when very dangerous side effects turn up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 18, 2020, 10:46:52 PM
now they can track you, another real bad thing
Another freedom, taken away.

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

Why/how would they track you in a bad way and what freedom will you lose? What scares me is people questioning EVERYTHING. It's a vaccine that's 95% effective, get it! It isn't about trusting the government, it's about trusting the scientific and medical communities.

    :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:        :ROFL:

Are you really that obtuse? Seriously?

We don't know how effective the vaccines are in real life with Millions of people taking them, nor will we be told the truth if/when very dangerous side effects turn up.

So don't get it. Stay afraid of everything if that's what you want.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 18, 2020, 11:53:50 PM
now they can track you, another real bad thing
Another freedom, taken away.

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

Why/how would they track you in a bad way and what freedom will you lose? What scares me is people questioning EVERYTHING. It's a vaccine that's 95% effective, get it! It isn't about trusting the government, it's about trusting the scientific and medical communities.

    :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:        :ROFL:

Are you really that obtuse? Seriously?

We don't know how effective the vaccines are in real life with Millions of people taking them, nor will we be told the truth if/when very dangerous side effects turn up.

So don't get it. Stay afraid of everything if that's what you want.

I think you missed the point. I was just watching the CEO of Moderna and he acknowledged there is a big difference between the test which utilized 30,000 people and real world where 30 Million will rapidly get it.

Thanks to President Trump this is the first time in history that vaccines have been developed so quickly however many of us still have reservations. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 19, 2020, 12:14:52 AM
Because mhr7 might claim the article is a lie and from a "tin foil hat" site, here is the original article from Reuters.

https://widerimage.reuters.com/story/one-night-in-wuhan-covid-19s-original-epicentre-re-learns-how-to-party

Bump! I still cannot believe we have alleged surges in Covid, and in China clubs are packed with people not wearing masks.

Something doesn't add up....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 19, 2020, 01:11:48 AM
now they can track you, another real bad thing
Another freedom, taken away.

The so called cure is as bad as the cause or worse.
long term will be much worse.
Far to much control, far to many freedoms being taken.
What scares me is how many people follow
without questioning anything

Simple question, did you trust your Government  last year?

Why/how would they track you in a bad way and what freedom will you lose? What scares me is people questioning EVERYTHING. It's a vaccine that's 95% effective, get it! It isn't about trusting the government, it's about trusting the scientific and medical communities.

    :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:      :ROFL:        :ROFL:

Are you really that obtuse? Seriously?

We don't know how effective the vaccines are in real life with Millions of people taking them, nor will we be told the truth if/when very dangerous side effects turn up.

So don't get it. Stay afraid of everything if that's what you want.

I think you missed the point. I was just watching the CEO of Moderna and he acknowledged there is a big difference between the test which utilized 30,000 people and real world where 30 Million will rapidly get it.

Thanks to President Trump this is the first time in history that vaccines have been developed so quickly however many of us still have reservations. Time will tell.

I understand there are risks involved but 30,000 is a significant population and by the time the vaccine gets around to me there will have been 1,000,000+ people who have also been vaccinated so more information will be known.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on December 19, 2020, 02:58:17 AM
Never any talk about prevention from the MSM, the bought and paid for medical community, nor the political/business elites, or very little.

The thing about this virus is it affects people differently and the vast majority are asymptomatic. That should speak volumes there.

To say that if you get it you will have long term effects from it is borderline fear mongering. I know many more people whom have had it than 6 months ago and none are feeling the effects from it now. People in what we know to be higher risk groups, should of course take extra precautions and have a higher chance of long term effects.

Nevertheless, what we also know is that eating healthy, getting enough sleep (vastly underrated benefits to your organism), exercise and having sufficient levels of vitamin D, C, zinc and probiotics go a long way to strengthen your immune system to fight viruses.

I'm not sure about taking any vaccine at the moment. I'm not an antivaxer, but I'm not in any hurry to get one.

We, as humans, have been through much worse events in our history, much worse. The constant bombardment of news/information about this virus has created a huge divide among people and that should scare you more than the virus. The media has also created an overblown reaction to the virus as well IMO. Way overblown.

My opinion of what society should do hasn't changed much since news first broke about corona. The virus is real, but surely nothing to be any more cautious about than I would be about getting a myriad of other more serious illnesses. I can think of many conditions off the top of my head, both mental and physical, that are worse than getting the coronavirus. IOW, I'm going to live my life as I see fit, understanding the risk to myself and others.

One thing I noticed about changing my diet (removing some foods rather than eating less), intermittently fasting and improving my sleep is that I feel my immune system is functioning much better. I usually have awful allergies here in May. So bad that I have to leave the city for a few weeks. This last May, nothing, not even a sniffle. And this is my recommendation instead of a vaccine.

Get the vaccine if it makes you feel better, but work on yourself, prevention is always the best medicine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on December 19, 2020, 10:40:19 AM
Trust the science? ok who pays for the science?
Who controls the narrative of the science ?

I think Covid is real, I also think it is way overblown.
I tend to think, each should do what they need to protect themselves.
Why is it your responsibility to worry about me?
Do you with everything else in life?

I am not anti vax either, but I agree with Danchik,
take care of yourself and less drugs are required
to be healthy, this makes sense to me.

Being forced to take, one way or another I don't like.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 19, 2020, 11:05:35 AM
Never any talk about prevention from the MSM, the bought and paid for medical community, nor the political/business elites, or very little.

The thing about this virus is it affects people differently and the vast majority are asymptomatic. That should speak volumes there.

To say that if you get it you will have long term effects from it is borderline fear mongering. I know many more people whom have had it than 6 months ago and none are feeling the effects from it now. People in what we know to be higher risk groups, should of course take extra precautions and have a higher chance of long term effects.

Nevertheless, what we also know is that eating healthy, getting enough sleep (vastly underrated benefits to your organism), exercise and having sufficient levels of vitamin D, C, zinc and probiotics go a long way to strengthen your immune system to fight viruses.

I'm not sure about taking any vaccine at the moment. I'm not an antivaxer, but I'm not in any hurry to get one.

We, as humans, have been through much worse events in our history, much worse. The constant bombardment of news/information about this virus has created a huge divide among people and that should scare you more than the virus. The media has also created an overblown reaction to the virus as well IMO. Way overblown.

My opinion of what society should do hasn't changed much since news first broke about corona. The virus is real, but surely nothing to be any more cautious about than I would be about getting a myriad of other more serious illnesses. I can think of many conditions off the top of my head, both mental and physical, that are worse than getting the coronavirus. IOW, I'm going to live my life as I see fit, understanding the risk to myself and others.

One thing I noticed about changing my diet (removing some foods rather than eating less), intermittently fasting and improving my sleep is that I feel my immune system is functioning much better. I usually have awful allergies here in May. So bad that I have to leave the city for a few weeks. This last May, nothing, not even a sniffle. And this is my recommendation instead of a vaccine.

Get the vaccine if it makes you feel better, but work on yourself, prevention is always the best medicine.

I agree with everything you said, great post.

With gyms shut down it's hard to get the exercise I need to stay healthy. I think they did that on purpose. They want sick people who will cave in to their demand to get a vaccine.

The jury is still out on that for me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 19, 2020, 08:35:21 PM
Nurse passes out after getting the vaccine. Oops.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-18-coronavirus-vaccine-nurse-loses-consciousness-live-tv.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 19, 2020, 08:58:27 PM
Yes, the nurse who half-expected something might happen because she has an overactive vagal nerve response. That means there's a decent chance she'll faint under stress or due to pain.

It was nothing to do with the vaccination itself. Given her condition it might've happened as a result of the interview and the stress of that.

But hey, why not just watch a misleadingly edited dishonest piece of propaganda designed to doll the easily led.

I guess that the audience would probably be the same people who believed stories of a gun battle in Germany between the FBI and the CIA a few days ago.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 19, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Yes, the nurse who half-expected something might happen because she has an overactive vagal nerve response. That means there's a decent chance she'll faint under stress or due to pain.

It was nothing to do with the vaccination itself. Given her condition it might've happened as a result of the interview and the stress of that.

But hey, why not just watch a misleadingly edited dishonest piece of propaganda designed to doll the easily led.

I guess that the audience would probably be the same people who believed stories of a gun battle in Germany between the FBI and the CIA a few days ago.

Get your facts straight, the gun battle was not between the FBI and CIA.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 20, 2020, 12:44:25 AM
Yes, the nurse who half-expected something might happen because she has an overactive vagal nerve response. That means there's a decent chance she'll faint under stress or due to pain.

It was nothing to do with the vaccination itself. Given her condition it might've happened as a result of the interview and the stress of that.

But hey, why not just watch a misleadingly edited dishonest piece of propaganda designed to doll the easily led.

I guess that the audience would probably be the same people who believed stories of a gun battle in Germany between the FBI and the CIA a few days ago.

Get your facts straight, the gun battle was not between the FBI and CIA.

Yeah andrew, get the story straight. It was the US military against the CIA in the phony gun battle in Germany.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 20, 2020, 07:27:18 AM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on December 20, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 20, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times

This.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 20, 2020, 03:56:35 PM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times

The silence of the media on your truth. Yes, it is very difficult to believe such a thing happened, especially since there are no facts backing it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on December 20, 2020, 05:24:58 PM
Looks like Cloggies unhappy with UKs new Covid20 outbreak...

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/12/20/netherlands-bans-uk-flights-as-new-coronavirus-strain-emerges-in-london/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on December 20, 2020, 05:36:18 PM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times

The silence of the media on your truth. Yes, it is very difficult to believe such a thing happened, especially since there are no facts backing it.

My truth? This is an ongoing problem with you constantly offended snowflakes of the left. You honestly believe there is a "your truth" and my truth. There is no such thing, the truth and it stands alone on it's own merit. You are welcome to ignore the truth or deny the truth. Or as you do, totally stick your head in the sand to hide from the truth. You need to keep in mind going forward none of that changes the truth. The truth is something I am sure you wouldn't recognize even if it bit you on the ass
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 20, 2020, 05:43:41 PM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times

The silence of the media on your truth. Yes, it is very difficult to believe such a thing happened, especially since there are no facts backing it.

My truth? This is an ongoing problem with you constantly offended snowflakes of the left. You honestly believe there is a "your truth" and my truth. There is no such thing, the truth and it stands alone on it's own merit. You are welcome to ignore the truth or deny the truth. Or as you do, totally stick your head in the sand to hide from the truth. You need to keep in mind going forward none of that changes the truth. The truth is something I am sure you wouldn't recognize even if it bit you on the ass

This is like trying to convince some one the earth is round when they are convinced it is flat.

A while back there were those who believed the earth was the center of the universe. Those mathematicians and astronomers who proved otherwise were ostracized or worse.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 20, 2020, 07:15:43 PM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times

The silence of the media on your truth. Yes, it is very difficult to believe such a thing happened, especially since there are no facts backing it.

My truth? This is an ongoing problem with you constantly offended snowflakes of the left. You honestly believe there is a "your truth" and my truth. There is no such thing, the truth and it stands alone on it's own merit. You are welcome to ignore the truth or deny the truth. Or as you do, totally stick your head in the sand to hide from the truth. You need to keep in mind going forward none of that changes the truth. The truth is something I am sure you wouldn't recognize even if it bit you on the ass

What facts would you like the msm to report? The ones from the Qanon rumor mill? The ones for which there is no proof? The ones that were supposed to have happened but didn't? All you conspiracy theorists can do is complain about the msm but offer no truth or verifiable facts yourself. The msm is full of shit but Qanon, the natural news, welovetrump, national file, OANN, etc. are sources of the true news, right?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on December 20, 2020, 07:23:43 PM
Nurse passes out after getting the vaccine. Oops.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-18-coronavirus-vaccine-nurse-loses-consciousness-live-tv.html

There is no way I am going to have the COVID-19 vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 20, 2020, 07:44:55 PM
Nurse passes out after getting the vaccine. Oops.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-18-coronavirus-vaccine-nurse-loses-consciousness-live-tv.html

There is no way I am going to have the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yea There is no way I will not get the vaccine. I bet she got up a few minutes latter and was alright. Those people who died from Covid-19 are dead forever!!! I used to pass out from shots all the time. That is what this looked like. A temporary lost of blood pressure that returns in a few minutes. This is a small price to pay to have our way of life returned and will not happen to most people.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 20, 2020, 08:41:41 PM

For those denying there was a gun battle, who told you that? Gina Haspel? The media should ask CIA director Gina Haspel if there was a gun battle in Frankfurt....if they can find her.

Italy finds new strain of coronavirus in person who arrived from UK

http://www.uniindia.com/italy-detects-new-mutated-coronavirus-strain-in-returnee-from-uk-health-ministry/world/news/2269797.html

Turkey closes borders with UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, and South Africa due to new mutation. Saudi Arabia closes borders with everybody.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/travel/saudi-arabia-turkey-ban-international-travel-over-new-coronavirus-strain-discovery-in-uk/story-PYp3ZL8FB0ouDhk2RKIoXP.html

I guess we'll find out soon if we need to create a whole new vaccine for this mutation. More work for the makers of vaccines. Invest in their stock. More aggressive lock downs coming. Got to pacify the people so they are less likely to resist the Great Reset.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on December 20, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Nurse passes out after getting the vaccine. Oops.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-18-coronavirus-vaccine-nurse-loses-consciousness-live-tv.html

There is no way I am going to have the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yea There is no way I will not get the vaccine. I bet she got up a few minutes latter and was alright. Those people who died from Covid-19 are dead forever!!! I used to pass out from shots all the time. That is what this looked like. A temporary lost of blood pressure that returns in a few minutes. This is a small price to pay to have our way of life returned and will not happen to most people.

It's the right decision.
I am swallowing COVID every day and have a strong enough immune defense at this time.
No need to boost it.
For those who are not exposed to COVID, it's better to have the vaccine.
Sorry, I should be clear in my previous post.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 21, 2020, 12:57:40 AM
There are no 'facts' in that story!

It was a fantasy that made fools of the uninformed, unthinkers, who chose credulity over truth.

That's something to look back upon with pride, eh, Confederate?

There are few "facts" anywhere. Facts are a rare commodity these days. There is little truth if any coming out of the mainstream media. Just the silence of the media on the truth is truly deafening. That alone should cause you pause in poo pooing any story you hear whether it be on forums or independent news outlets. Did it actually happen? We just don't know but, would it be hard to believe? Not really, truth is stranger than fiction in the best of times and these are not exactly the best of times

The silence of the media on your truth. Yes, it is very difficult to believe such a thing happened, especially since there are no facts backing it.

My truth? This is an ongoing problem with you constantly offended snowflakes of the left. You honestly believe there is a "your truth" and my truth. There is no such thing, the truth and it stands alone on it's own merit. You are welcome to ignore the truth or deny the truth. Or as you do, totally stick your head in the sand to hide from the truth. You need to keep in mind going forward none of that changes the truth. The truth is something I am sure you wouldn't recognize even if it bit you on the ass

What facts would you like the msm to report? The ones from the Qanon rumor mill? The ones for which there is no proof? The ones that were supposed to have happened but didn't? All you conspiracy theorists can do is complain about the msm but offer no truth or verifiable facts yourself. The msm is full of shit but Qanon, the natural news, welovetrump, national file, OANN, etc. are sources of the true news, right?

Curious, do you still believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK? After all that's what the MSM told you, right?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on December 21, 2020, 04:10:45 AM
Got a mutant virus spreading from London now.. well that's easy to understand considering all the mutants that live in London.. not looking good now.. mutant virus that needs a new vaccine , spreads faster kills you quicker.. I got a feeling everything will go South soon and it really will be like one of those Si Fi movies.. lets hope the mutant variation doesn't turn everyone into zombies I have seen this coming a ling time ago..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 21, 2020, 08:06:30 AM
mutant virus that needs a new vaccine

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 21, 2020, 08:11:20 AM

Putin buys up UK vaccine and will mix it with the Russian Sputnik V vaccine. Trials to start soon.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-lauds-astrazeneca-signs-vaccine-131331825.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 21, 2020, 08:31:24 AM
The only difference appears to be that it is much more infectious than the current version.

It is reckoned that the mutation can raise the r0 level by 0.4. Thats a big difference and is why infections in the South East of the UK went up so quickly and pushed the UK back into lockdown.

If it gets to the USA it'll be devastating.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on December 21, 2020, 08:59:09 AM
I think its defo going to be the winter of discontent .. everyone going to the cleaners! We bought two tour tickets off two pretty big tour sites that do walks and tours in Russia .. just wanted to copy their Voucher system .. they ain't giving a refund despite asking them lots of times, no snowier to e-mails nothing  :laugh:  I don't care I got the info I needed!  Noticed a fair few places web sites gone.. to the big liquidizer in the sky , so were busy copying pages and pages of their blog content .. when they go I got lots of free articles.. original as well.. ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 21, 2020, 09:23:06 AM
The only difference appears to be that it is much more infectious than the current version.

They would say that in order to increase the take up of the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 21, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
The only difference appears to be that it is much more infectious than the current version.

It is reckoned that the mutation can raise the r0 level by 0.4. Thats a big difference and is why infections in the South East of the UK went up so quickly and pushed the UK back into lockdown.

If it gets to the USA it'll be devastating.

If that is not so Andrew. Only the USA will have a problem. Of course it will get to the USA. They may slow it down a little but it will get here. It is all ready spread too far to be stopped without measures no one will want. Yes Andrew it will be a big problem when it gets here just like it will be most every else.

The big concern is, will the vaccines work on the new version?  If so which vaccines and on which strains of the virus? They are all ready telling everyone here when you get the vaccine continue to wear a mask and continue to social distance. Do not trust it. 

Now what the UK going to do? AS soon as they get out of lock down it will come back and spread across the whole country and soon the whole world.  Or are they going to stay in Lock down for ever? This lock down only puts the problems off a little and give people a chance to understand how much trouble we the human race is in.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 21, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
The only difference appears to be that it is much more infectious than the current version.

They would say that in order to increase the take up of the vaccine.

Most of the covid-19 vaccines target the spike proteins which determines how infectious the disease is. That is what changed. This is not something to say to give anybody confidence the vaccines will work. I am not saying they do not work but it is an unknown.  I still will get the vaccine when available.  There is hope they will still work but no test data.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 21, 2020, 09:49:39 AM
It is unlikely that the mutation will affect any of the developed vaccines. Apart from anything else, immunity comes about as the result of multiple processes. All the current vaccines stimulate all the immunity processes. The only change is to the spike protein and only to part of that. So the vaccine will not be stopped because all the other mechanisms/processes will still take place.

Whatever is going going on, something has led to a very rapid increase in infections in the South East of England. There's definitely a correlation between the mutation and infection increase. Early results from Porton Down indicate causation. Statistically the causal link is already made. Because the only known effect is rate of increase and the amount of vaccine doses is, in the short term, fixed, uptake of vaccines will make no difference. There will be, for the next 12 months, more people wanting the vaccine than there are doses available to give. Therefore you can disregard hypotheses about propaganda.

Willingness to take vaccination only becomes an issue when supply of vaccine doses exceeds the number of people willing to take it AND if herd immunity has not been reached at that point. We are, in the UK months away from that.

The real issue right now is supply of medical support - hospital beds etc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 21, 2020, 10:08:24 AM
The only difference appears to be that it is much more infectious than the current version.

They would say that in order to increase the take up of the vaccine.

Exactly. Lie to the plebes, cause anxiety and fear.

Make Billuons of $$ on the alleged solution.

Or it's real because they sprayed London with some airplanes with a newer more potent version of Covid.

There were eye witnesses around Lake Washington where I grew up that some planes were spraying something back at the beginning and then many people became violently ill and many patients at a nursing home died.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on December 21, 2020, 10:37:09 AM
I read somewhere that the Oxford vaccine is a lot cheaper and can be kept at temperatures much closer to zero. I also understand that the ones needing to be kept at -70 or thereabouts, require mixing with some sort of liquid before administering.

I heard from a Chinese source which, in turn, quoted from an ex-MI6 staff that ChiNazi has collected newly mutated Wuhan virus in Denmark.  They will be launching a 2nd round biowarfare attack.

Their goal is to render Pfizer's and Oxford's vaccine void!!!

Believe it or not?!?  It is up to you, but I definitely rate it as an event of very high probability!

Just forget any possible vaccine which can save us from Wuhan virus as long as ChiNazi exists!

I suspect the worlds intelligence agencies are saying nothing but watching China like a hawk. If there is any kind of 'warfare' going on, that ship has sailed. A bit like Pearl Harbour, the element of surprise has passed.

English Friends,
Reality turns out to coincide with the rumour quoted above.  Believe it or not?!?

Oxford vaccine is void at the moment when it is released.

Some one may argue.  China also suffers.

My answer is "So what?!?" China people suffer; China Commie do not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on December 21, 2020, 10:43:35 AM
Exactly. Lie to the plebes, cause anxiety and fear.

Make Billuons of $$ on the alleged solution.

Or it's real because they sprayed London with some airplanes with a newer more potent version of Covid.

There were eye witnesses around Lake Washington where I grew up that some planes were spraying something back at the beginning and then many people became violently ill and many patients at a nursing home died.

American Friend,
At last, you understand how ChiNazi`s "Unlimited War against USA" works!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 23, 2020, 06:09:55 PM
We seem to have things backward. I am looking at the vaccine order and looking who is first to get it. I have known for sometime it was going to be like this but it is very apparent now. First we want to start with health care workers. But it is like this is the only trade that is needed to keep the country running.  Then you see the order and last on the list is the working tax payer who is needed to keep the country running. Now I am 72 year old and working but if I want to move up on the list I need to be 72 years old and homeless.

It is this type of thinking why western countries are going broke. I am not even sure the vaccine will work against the new strain but still you got to just love it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on December 28, 2020, 10:26:51 AM
Nurse Gets Bell`s Palsy After Taking "Wuhan Virus Vaccine" (Paralysed Face)
Nashville, TN, USA

Original English Conversation
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 28, 2020, 12:33:31 PM
The real issue right now is supply of medical support - hospital beds etc.

That's what the media are told to say, but it's not true.

Hospitals are not or ever were overflowing. The Nightingale centres were never used. Capacity is normal for the time of year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on December 28, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
We seem to have things backward. I am looking at the vaccine order and looking who is first to get it. I have known for sometime it was going to be like this but it is very apparent now. First we want to start with health care workers. But it is like this is the only trade that is needed to keep the country running.  Then you see the order and last on the list is the working tax payer who is needed to keep the country running. Now I am 72 year old and working but if I want to move up on the list I need to be 72 years old and homeless.

It is this type of thinking why western countries are going broke. I am not even sure the vaccine will work against the new strain but still you got to just love it.

 be 72 years old and homeless.   Don't worry about it!! Same story in the Uk if your looking for a house to live in.. Come over in rubber dinghy with no passport and you get a free house..complain about it and your in prison :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 30, 2020, 08:21:23 AM
UK version of covid 19 in USA. Most likely has already infected many.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-new-covid-strain-is-in-the-u-s-and-it-s-bad-news-for-2-reasons/ss-BB1ckEN6?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on December 30, 2020, 08:44:10 AM
I read somewhere that the Oxford vaccine is a lot cheaper and can be kept at temperatures much closer to zero. I also understand that the ones needing to be kept at -70 or thereabouts, require mixing with some sort of liquid before administering.

I heard from a Chinese source which, in turn, quoted from an ex-MI6 staff that ChiNazi has collected newly mutated Wuhan virus in Denmark.  They will be launching a 2nd round biowarfare attack.

Their goal is to render Pfizer's and Oxford's vaccine void!!!

Believe it or not?!?  It is up to you, but I definitely rate it as an event of very high probability!

Just forget any possible vaccine which can save us from Wuhan virus as long as ChiNazi exists!

I suspect the worlds intelligence agencies are saying nothing but watching China like a hawk. If there is any kind of 'warfare' going on, that ship has sailed. A bit like Pearl Harbour, the element of surprise has passed.

English Friends,
Reality turns out to coincide with the rumour quoted above.  Believe it or not?!?

Oxford vaccine is void at the moment when it is released.

Some one may argue.  China also suffers.

My answer is "So what?!?" China people suffer; China Commie do not.

Pfizer's vaccine is reported void.  A person took Pfizer's Wuhan virus vaccine.  One week later, he was infected with Wuhan virus.

Once again, reality turns out to coincide with my source.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 30, 2020, 07:09:50 PM
That does not mean anything The vaccine is only 95 per cent effective. ! in twenty people will still be able to catch the virus if it works like it is suppose to. Also he may of caught it before the vaccine had been able to establish immunity or maybe he had it before he got the vaccine. I am not auguring that vaccine is a for sure thing but this is no data at all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 31, 2020, 10:06:20 AM
Pfizer's vaccine is reported void.  A person took Pfizer's Wuhan virus vaccine.  One week later, he was infected with Wuhan virus.

Once again, reality turns out to coincide with my source.

This is nonsense. The vaccine takes 10-21 days to be effective. This was discussed by Boris, JVT and Co on the news yesterday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 02, 2021, 08:35:35 PM
On the Nightly News with Lester Holt this evening the guest host stated that the Flu was down by 98% this year!

Now wasn't that convenient?  Flu down by 98%, almost zero flu deaths but lots and lots of Covid deaths, get your vaccine!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 02, 2021, 09:25:50 PM
On the Nightly News with Lester Holt this evening the guest host stated that the Flu was down by 98% this year!

Now wasn't that convenient?  Flu down by 98%, almost zero flu deaths but lots and lots of Covid deaths, get your vaccine!!

More people have taken the flu vaccine this year compared to the past. Also, social distancing and masks prevent the spread of other diseases. With less flu floating around, lives will be saved. Question is how much lockdown do we have to endure to save lives? Photo of Wuhan New Years show they are partying in the streets when New York Times Square, there was nobody except the mayor with his wife who told everybody to stay home. Another do as I say, not as I do Democrat. As far as Chinese go, I didn't know so many were interested in celebrating our New Year. Maybe Chinese rubbing it in our nose?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 03, 2021, 11:38:07 AM
It's celebrated all over Asia as an international holiday when the calendar turns. There was even a huge outdoor party in Pyongyang (https://news.sky.com/story/world-begins-muted-2021-celebrations-as-2020-comes-to-an-end-12176170).

The virus has mostly gone in China, never happened in Taiwan much and wasn't admitted to in North Korea (so zero confirmed cases). So life is mostly normal there.

Chinese New Year is a slightly different holiday despite its name.

The Chinese are also getting into Christmas.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 03, 2021, 02:57:37 PM
It's celebrated all over Asia as an international holiday when the calendar turns. There was even a huge outdoor party in Pyongyang (https://news.sky.com/story/world-begins-muted-2021-celebrations-as-2020-comes-to-an-end-12176170).

The virus has mostly gone in China, never happened in Taiwan much and wasn't admitted to in North Korea (so zero confirmed cases). So life is mostly normal there.

Chinese New Year is a slightly different holiday despite its name.

The Chinese are also getting into Christmas.

Is it gone because the Chinese developed a successful vaccine?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 03, 2021, 09:33:21 PM


I debated about posting on this but I think it's time because the issue is real and can have a real impact on humanity. There is a conspiracy theory from those on the right saying that The Great Reset wants to limit the population. They also say people like Bill Gates wants to reduce the population of the world. They cite experts who say the new mRNA vaccines by Moderna and Pfizer are harmful to our reproductive systems. It may limit our ability to have kids and even cause birth defects due to genetic manipulation. Because of COVID, mRNA based vaccines which have never been approved before is now rushed to the market. Do those 'experts' know what they're talking about? I did my own Google research to find this...

According to page 132 of Pfizer's clinical protocals, they require males in the study to refrain from donating sperm and ask them to not have unprotected sex with females who can bear children. Females in the study need to take precautions from getting pregnant

https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020.pdf


A Dec 10th Pfizer document been released and at the bottom of page 12 talks about findings and outcomes of certain studies but when it came to study on Developmental and Reproductive Toxicity, the study is 'ongoing' yet they've approved the vaccine for release. So my recommendation for anybody wanting to have kids in the future is to avoid the Pfizer, Moderna, or any vaccine that is mRNA based. It would be a shame if 5-10 years from now they tell us they made a mistake releasing it too soon.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download


A news anchor asks Bill Gates if vaccines are safe because there's a high rate of side effects among the people who are taking vaccines. Bill Gates's answer doesn't give me confidence.

https://twitter.com/WarTimeGirl/status/1343673202971717644


Good news is because of our social distancing practices and record number of people taking flu vaccines, flus are at an all time low.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/good-news-flu-cases-disappear-us-number-positive-flu-tests-time-low-reason/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=PostBottomSharingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 04, 2021, 08:11:45 AM
The virus has mostly gone in China, never happened in Taiwan much and wasn't admitted to in North Korea (so zero confirmed cases). So life is mostly normal there.

Is it gone because the Chinese developed a successful vaccine?

They do have a vaccine but people aren't really talking about it so I don't know what the uptake is. My impression is it naturally faded away and/or herd immunity happened. What I do know is nobody is concerned, mask usage has reduced to normal, and there are only occasional small regional lockdowns as pockets of infection emerge. Arriving foreigners and returning locals are being quarantined in government hotels for 14 days so none coming in from abroad.

North Korea still has the borders closed to everyone. I am not sure what Taiwan are doing in respect of foreigners.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on January 05, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
Dr Yan interviewed in Bannon's War Room.
She still insisted that Wuhan virus were released intentionally by China Commie to poison the world.

2 Jan 2021
Original English Conversation
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on January 05, 2021, 01:16:18 PM
It's celebrated all over Asia as an international holiday when the calendar turns. There was even a huge outdoor party in Pyongyang (https://news.sky.com/story/world-begins-muted-2021-celebrations-as-2020-comes-to-an-end-12176170).

The virus has mostly gone in China, never happened in Taiwan much and wasn't admitted to in North Korea (so zero confirmed cases). So life is mostly normal there.

Chinese New Year is a slightly different holiday despite its name.

The Chinese are also getting into Christmas.

Is it gone because the Chinese developed a successful vaccine?
It is because his friends are mostly "Fart People and Low End Population" (a term, used by high ranking China Communists, referring to China people) who do not have right to access Truth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 05, 2021, 02:25:49 PM
I'd love to see a reputable source for that comment Loyalman - and yes, in Chinese will do. :)

I am agog to read that!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 06, 2021, 05:49:06 AM
A news anchor asks Bill Gates if vaccines are safe because there's a high rate of side effects among the people who are taking vaccines. Bill Gates's answer doesn't give me confidence.

https://twitter.com/WarTimeGirl/status/1343673202971717644

They seem to be referring to mild side effects like some people have with flu or other vaccines. Localised swelling, or a headache or small chill. Stuff you'd pop a couple of Paracetamols for.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 06, 2021, 02:11:25 PM
Yup, normal for vaccines.

Of course with millions of people taking it there is a statistical certainty that somebody will have a heart attack 5 minutes after the jab.

Whats happening is that the normal is being treated as abnormal by people who can't count and those with an axe to grind.

Even though I am pretty sure that I have had the virus, I have no issue with taking the vaccine, if only to get the little card that says I have had the jab because it will make life easier in the months to come.

In the broader sense, the faster we can get the infections down the sooner life can move on.

I was ill, fever, aches, fatigue, brain fog, insomnia and shortness of breath from early December and only got back to normal work on 4th January. I still have some shortness of breath from time to time. I work for myself so I did work. I only lost about half my normal production and income. In a normal job I'd not have been going to work during that period. Multiply that situation by millions of people. The result is not good.

It's not just the dead, its not just the seriously ill in hospital, bad though that is. It's the relatively healthy people with a 'mild' case who become unproductive for weeks. Its the people who are asymptomatic but tested who can't work for a couple of weeks, no matter how healthy they feel.

When I get a cold or flu I want to die for a few days, typically I don't stop working and I have a few low productivity days. I have been off normal work for longer than at any time in the past 30 years. That's why we need to take precautions. That's why we need to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 06, 2021, 02:13:06 PM
I am still waiting for Loyalman to come up with evidence of his foolish claims.

Loyalman, the world is messed up enough. No need to add your lies to the mix.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on January 06, 2021, 03:41:22 PM
I am not sure about the vaccine
lack of info, fortunately for me I am low
enough on the list to get it.
millions and millions will have got it and
more time will have passed so I get info.

One thing I don't like is this.
Ok you want the vaccine in Canada.
sure sooner I get out of this crap we have to do.
Wait nope! Still have to distance, still have to wear a mask,
still have to have less than 10 people around, excuse me
but if I don't gain anything, why would I take it??

96 % are asymotmatic , hmm Vaccine is 94% effect
with little to no history, ya I will wait, thank you :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 06, 2021, 04:09:25 PM
96% are NOT asymptomatic.

You need to take precautions because you don't have full protection until several weeks after the second jab.

We do not yet know for the vaccines approved in the usa/Canada whether the vaccine stops people from being infected. We only know at the moment that you won't get sick.
So you can, as far as we know, still be infectious even after you've been vaccinated. That may not be the case but we don't know it yet.

The Oxford vaccine is better in that regard. Tests show you don't get infected.

Also, do you want to walk around carrying a placard saying that you have been vaccinated so you can do what you want? And what about the imbeciles who'd make fake badges or whatever because it's their right to do so.

You get vaccinated so you don't get sick. You take precautions because you need to in order to protect yourself and because, due to the high prevalence of stupid and uninformed mongs, we can't trust each other.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 06, 2021, 07:44:30 PM
96% are NOT asymptomatic.

You need to take precautions because you don't have full protection until several weeks after the second jab.

We do not yet know for the vaccines approved in the usa/Canada whether the vaccine stops people from being infected. We only know at the moment that you won't get sick.
So you can, as far as we know, still be infectious even after you've been vaccinated. That may not be the case but we don't know it yet.

The Oxford vaccine is better in that regard. Tests show you don't get infected.

Also, do you want to walk around carrying a placard saying that you have been vaccinated so you can do what you want? And what about the imbeciles who'd make fake badges or whatever because it's their right to do so.


You mean the so-called elites who can game the system and are laughing at us normies?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 08, 2021, 07:37:55 AM
By the time I get offered the vaccine, likely not for many months, we'll probably have a pretty good idea of any risks and how good it is. 

I know of a few old folk who have had it already (even Tom Jones got his he mentioned on Jools Holland's Hootenanny).

I'll probably have it by then if there are no concerns. The best trial we could want is a few million people in front of us.

There was an amusing meme I saw on Instagram, it was along the lines of: "You're cautious about a vaccine developed by world class chemists and scientists, but happily shove a few grams of coke up your nose, from an unknown source, bought from a bloke called Kev with one tooth"

Made me laugh anyway......
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 08, 2021, 10:05:34 AM
By the time I get offered the vaccine, likely not for many months, we'll probably have a pretty good idea of any risks and how good it is. 

I know of a few old folk who have had it already (even Tom Jones got his he mentioned on Jools Holland's Hootenanny).

I'll probably have it by then if there are no concerns. The best trial we could want is a few million people in front of us.

There was an amusing meme I saw on Instagram, it was along the lines of: "You're cautious about a vaccine developed by world class chemists and scientists, but happily shove a few grams of coke up your nose, from an unknown source, bought from a bloke called Kev with one tooth"

Made me laugh anyway......

To the meme, never!

I will likely say no thanks to the vaccine as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on January 08, 2021, 11:03:35 AM
By the time I get offered the vaccine, likely not for many months, we'll probably have a pretty good idea of any risks and how good it is. 

I know of a few old folk who have had it already (even Tom Jones got his he mentioned on Jools Holland's Hootenanny).

I'll probably have it by then if there are no concerns. The best trial we could want is a few million people in front of us.

There was an amusing meme I saw on Instagram, it was along the lines of: "You're cautious about a vaccine developed by world class chemists and scientists, but happily shove a few grams of coke up your nose, from an unknown source, bought from a bloke called Kev with one tooth"

Made me laugh anyway......

I won't be lining up for it either. Even though there is already discussions about mandatory vaccination to do a number of things including travel and perhaps even employment. The vaccine was rushed to rollout and millions are accepting it whole heartedly without question. All this for a virus with a 99% survival rate? It would appear something more is afoot

"Moderna brags that “several hundred scientists and engineers are solely focused on advancing Moderna’s platform technology.” These scientists are attempting to “hack” humans with bio-information and make populations dependent on the technology. Moderna has even dubbed their mRNA platform the ‘Software of Life.’

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-04-moderna-vaccine-designed-to-program-humans.html (https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-04-moderna-vaccine-designed-to-program-humans.html)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: LoyalMan on January 09, 2021, 04:38:21 AM
My family will wait for Oxford's products.  I watched a description about its principle which sounds safe.

We can have free vaccine service provided by our own family doctors.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 09, 2021, 10:38:17 AM
"Moderna brags that “several hundred scientists and engineers are solely focused on advancing Moderna’s platform technology.” These scientists are attempting to “hack” humans with bio-information and make populations dependent on the technology. Moderna has even dubbed their mRNA platform the ‘Software of Life.’

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-04-moderna-vaccine-designed-to-program-humans.html (https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-04-moderna-vaccine-designed-to-program-humans.html)

Thew original Moderna page that information has been cherry-picked from is here: https://www.modernatx.com/mrna-technology/mrna-platform-enabling-drug-discovery-development

The video used in your article by Dr. Carrie Madej (who appears to be qualified only as a dentist (https://atlantadentalcenter.com/slides/carrie-slide/carrie-madej-photo/)) from the anti-vax world and was even debunked on the BBC back in July: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53525002

She claims to have a company called Fenix Medicina (https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-madej-40062b61/) which seems to be an outfit selling traditional, herbal and cannabis-based products in GA.

There's a lot of nonsense written on the internet by people who aren't qualified to opine on the science.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 09, 2021, 10:44:55 AM
Is it gone because the Chinese developed a successful vaccine?

I heard today that in Guangdong at least, free vaccines are being offered to those who want them.

I also heard that North Korea has ordered from Switzerland enough to do the entire population.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 09, 2021, 11:39:21 AM
Is it gone because the Chinese developed a successful vaccine?

I heard today that in Guangdong at least, free vaccines are being offered to those who want them.

I also heard that North Korea has ordered from Switzerland enough to do the entire population.

In my mind the Swiss are likely the most careful, methodical and overall qualified to produce a safe vaccine.

What is the name of the company?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 09, 2021, 12:00:49 PM
Is it gone because the Chinese developed a successful vaccine?

I heard today that in Guangdong at least, free vaccines are being offered to those who want them.

I also heard that North Korea has ordered from Switzerland enough to do the entire population.

In my mind the Swiss are likely the most careful, methodical and overall qualified to produce a safe vaccine.

What is the name of the company?

I heard that from someone I know there in conversation the other day, but it appears to be in the news too (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-covid-vaccine-coronavirus-b1781993.html). AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson it seems. Stuff like vaccines don't come under the purview of any sanctions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 09, 2021, 09:02:38 PM
A good friend of mine is a nurse who worked for years doing drug trials and he won't take any COVID vaccine. He said there's a reason it takes billions of dollars worth of research and years to determine if drugs are safe. I told him billions were spent to study vaccines but he said not enough time was spent studying the vaccines to see if there will be any harmful effects that only show up years from now. He admits COVID is more dangerous than the flu but he doesn't think it's worth rushing vaccines to the market.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on January 16, 2021, 12:02:03 PM

America's State Department is blaming the CCP for the virus.

https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on January 16, 2021, 01:52:08 PM
A fair few Brits have had it here.. lots actually... their wives had it, kids .. parents and grandparents none had much to worry about , a few weeks back I had a shit bad headache for a few days and was waking up covered in sweat for 2/3 days.. wife was  the same .. Im not sure if we had it, but it wouldn't surprise me..it's all getting a bit boring now I think..

No one I know had it early last year.. but since then seems every bugger had it and its all over..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on January 21, 2021, 02:22:42 PM
I got Covid-19 shot today. So far no side effects. My arm does not hurt at all. I go back February 8 for second dose. I got the Pfizer vaccine. Long line. No one had any immediate side effects from what I could see.  I will not have full 95% immunity until two weeks after the second dose. I received a vaccine card to help me with future travel. It will get up dated when I get the second does and when I get future boosters.

Ukraine is about to change rules. If you have a covid-19 vaccine card you may inter the country with no quarantine no matter which country you are from. I think by March this will be everywhere.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 21, 2021, 11:43:12 PM
Japan rocks! No mask mandates! No lockdowns.
Very low deaths per million.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2021/01/10/commentary/japan-commentary/west-japan-coronavirus-response/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on January 21, 2021, 11:57:44 PM
Yea many of the Japanese were wearing mask long before covid. Many Asian countries just use good sense something we seem to have lost in western countries.  Japanese society has so many rules you can not believe it.  Go there and understand it. It is not the land of the free.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on January 22, 2021, 01:28:28 AM
It is not the land of the free.
You will have to split that one in 2 parts:

1) Japan IS the land of the free when the government is concerned, they put very little law in your freedom.
2) Japan IS NOT the land of the free when society is involved, they do and will enforce social compliance.

I like Japan, I was there for a week (for work in Fukuoka). When you are there, culture-shock is real!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 25, 2021, 06:09:44 PM
Quote

The Bleeding Edge

Dear Reader,

The nucleic acid testing (NAT) technologies that use polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests have been getting some attention again. This is the most common kind of test used for detection of COVID-19.

And this caught my eye… The World Health Organization (WHO) published a notice on January 20 concerning the interpretation of PCR results, cautioning those who use PCR tests.

This is a surprise. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and the broader medical community have incorrectly used the PCR tests as if they were a diagnostic tool that can provide a simple “positive” or “negative” as a result. Ironically, that’s not what the test was designed for.

The WHO’s announcement noted, “The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load.” This is accurate.

It went on to state, “As disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases.” Very true.

And it was surprisingly candid in stating, “Most PCR assays are indicated as an aid for diagnosis.” In other words, they’re not intended to provide definitive positive or negative diagnoses.

The cycle threshold setting is at the center of what I consider to be an epic scandal. It is why we have seen a very high percentage of false positives.

Each cycle used in a PCR test amplifies the genetic material analyzed in the test. The higher the setting, the higher the sensitivity.

If the sensitivity is set too high, it can pick up fragments of a dead virus. In other words, it’s not something that causes symptoms or is infectious. In the U.S., cycle thresholds are set at 40. And in Europe they’re between 40 and 45.

Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, offered his own insight into the very high sensitivity and corresponding low viral loads. He stated, “It’s really irresponsible, I think, to forgo the recognition that this is a quantitative issue.” He went on to say, “We’re using that for clinical diagnostics, for public health, for policy decision-making.”

Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California-Riverside, believes that even setting the cycle threshold to 35 is too sensitive. She went on to say, “I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive.

When interviewed on this topic, even Dr. Anthony Fauci stated, “If you perform the test at a cycle threshold of 35 or more, the chances of it being replication-confident [accurate] are miniscule. You almost never can culture the virus [detect a true positive result] from a 37 threshold cycle… even 36.”

What’s the right cycle threshold setting that would identify a live virus capable of spreading? Mina believes that number is 30 or less. Morrison says somewhere between 30 and 35.

Yet throughout this entire pandemic, the industry has been using 40. This has resulted in anywhere between 60% and 90% false positives
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: tfcrew on January 26, 2021, 08:12:35 PM
Quote
Canadian mogul fined after getting Covid vaccine meant for Indigenous residents

Quote
Rodney Baker and his wife traveled to a remote community of 100 in Yukon territory and claimed to be workers at a local motel
The former head of a Canadian casino company and his actor wife have been fined after chartering a private plane to a remote community near the Alaska border and receiving coronavirus vaccines meant for vulnerable Indigenous residents.

According to officials, Rodney and Ekaterina Baker travelled by chartered plane to Beaver Creek, a community of 100 in Canada’s Yukon territory, where a mobile team was administering the Moderna vaccine to residents. Among those slated for the vaccine were elderly members of the White River First Nation.

At the mobile clinic, the Bakers claimed to be workers at a local motel, according to reporting by the Yukon News.

But after the couple asked for a ride to the airport and the hotel confirmed they weren’t employees, staff with the mobile clinic called enforcement officers.
MORE..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/canada-ex-casino-head-fined-covid-vaccine-rodney-baker
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on January 27, 2021, 05:15:54 PM
Quote
Canadian mogul fined after getting Covid vaccine meant for Indigenous residents

Quote
Rodney Baker and his wife traveled to a remote community of 100 in Yukon territory and claimed to be workers at a local motel
The former head of a Canadian casino company and his actor wife have been fined after chartering a private plane to a remote community near the Alaska border and receiving coronavirus vaccines meant for vulnerable Indigenous residents.

According to officials, Rodney and Ekaterina Baker travelled by chartered plane to Beaver Creek, a community of 100 in Canada’s Yukon territory, where a mobile team was administering the Moderna vaccine to residents. Among those slated for the vaccine were elderly members of the White River First Nation.

At the mobile clinic, the Bakers claimed to be workers at a local motel, according to reporting by the Yukon News.

But after the couple asked for a ride to the airport and the hotel confirmed they weren’t employees, staff with the mobile clinic called enforcement officers.
MORE..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/canada-ex-casino-head-fined-covid-vaccine-rodney-baker


And what is the fine then? If you can afford to fly on a private plane, it has to be 100k+ dollars or they'll die laughing first.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 27, 2021, 08:59:47 PM
Bill Gates the crooked crook who planned all along to profit from the deliberate release of Covid19, a virus which Turd Fauci paid 4 Million dollars to finance.


https://fort-russ.com/2020/04/confirmed-hackers-strike-and-leak-bill-gates-who-and-wuhan-lab-emails/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on January 29, 2021, 10:12:42 AM
The really big news is this. I do not know why it seems everyone wants to debate whether Biden is president or not. The answer should be clear.

The covid-19 infection of the world may not be winding down be just beginning. There are many variances of the disease but this one seem to have all three of the most feared problems. One is it's more contagious than the one from UK or south Africa. Two it has a much higher death rate than the original disease. Three The shots may not work well against it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/why-the-brazil-variant-is-really-worrying-scientists/ar-BB1dd3Ix?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 29, 2021, 10:32:59 AM

And what is the fine then? If you can afford to fly on a private plane, it has to be 100k+ dollars or they'll die laughing first.

Apparently they are in line for some jail time if found guilty.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/americas/canada-exec-yukon-coronavirus-vaccine-trnd/index.html

Although a custodial sentence is not mandatory in the case, it seems likely that they will get the maximum penalty, if for no other reason than to discourage others from following a similar course to vaccination.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 29, 2021, 12:55:31 PM

https://thefreedomarticles.com/not-a-vaccine-mrna-covid-vaccine-chemical-pathogen-device/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 03, 2021, 08:17:23 PM


I personally know two people who are COVID positive and they say it's the worst experience they ever had. One is currently in the hospital for the second time. This time he went due to massive blood clotting in his lungs which some people can get with COVID. He can barely breathe and is in massive pain. He will be on medication to thin his blood for a minimum of 3 months.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 05, 2021, 06:53:14 AM


I personally know two people who are COVID positive and they say it's the worst experience they ever had. One is currently in the hospital for the second time. This time he went due to massive blood clotting in his lungs which some people can get with COVID. He can barely breathe and is in massive pain. He will be on medication to thin his blood for a minimum of 3 months.

Got to think positive! Sit down.. breath slowly .. think and don't panic .. lots of people panic and it makes the breathing even worse..

I once had a very bad allergic reaction in Russia .. went totally blue. sweat pouring off me all happened with 2 minutes I could see the light closing in just like in the movies just about to pass out.. wife was running around saying am I going to die!

I said shut up for two minutes and let me think about staying conscious .. so I just sat there calmly and thought about staying alive.. I was ok 15 mins later.. But christ when I got home the sick poured out of me.. straight after that it was like nothing ever happened.. weird!


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 05, 2021, 10:23:06 AM

https://thefreedomarticles.com/not-a-vaccine-mrna-covid-vaccine-chemical-pathogen-device/

More rubbish from people who can't read, or who are purposefully misleading the unthinkers among you.

To help the unthinker who posted the link above, here's what a vaccine is:
Quote
A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease. A vaccine typically contains a biological preparation from disease-causing microorganism, or since the beginning of the 21st century, made synthetically that resembles it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine

If unthinkers are still unsure, it might help them if they could tell us how the vaccines currently available do NOT fit the definition provided above.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 06, 2021, 06:31:46 AM
There is an interesting 16 minute long interview with a Canadian doctor on the link. He discusses what many of us suspect about Covid.

Curiously, one of the things he discusses is that even with the vaccination you still get an infection, so lockdown and social distancing and masks are here to stay even if you get vaccinated.

https://rumble.com/vcesav-brave-reporter-goes-off-script-on-air.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 06, 2021, 09:38:50 AM
Yes, immunity is not instant, that's normal. After a couple of weeks you get immunity around 75%, depending upon the vaccine used. The booster shot gives the final effect which, again varies, but in the ones used in the UK is over 90%.

Most importantly, and the reason why the UK is prioritising the first jab, is that after the first injection the number of people who get serious symptoms becomes negligible. Also, if you become infected, it is much less likely that you will infect others than if you had not been vaccinated. This effect, again varies among the vaccine types.

Thus the vaccines all offer significant personal and public health benefits.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 06, 2021, 10:15:48 AM


I personally know two people who are COVID positive and they say it's the worst experience they ever had. One is currently in the hospital for the second time. This time he went due to massive blood clotting in his lungs which some people can get with COVID. He can barely breathe and is in massive pain. He will be on medication to thin his blood for a minimum of 3 months.

Yes I have a friend whose two sisters got Covid-19. They both lived thru it but one was medical doctor and has been so disabled by it she will never work again. The other just had a horrible experience but now has recovered.  Not everyone has no symptoms. I get my second shot on Monday. The VA called me if I had not gotten the shot else where they were going to schedule me.

Mask are here to stay for a while. It will not be until the end of summer before we have enough vaccinated people to stop the virus. Likely will mutate enough by then we will need a new shot. So this could go on for a while. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 07, 2021, 12:30:36 AM
BRexit Paying off for Brits in the covid-19 fight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-economic-cost-of-its-errors-will-make-the-eu-wince-eco-week/ar-BB1ds8PI?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 07, 2021, 08:25:21 AM
BRexit Paying off for Brits in the covid-19 fight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-economic-cost-of-its-errors-will-make-the-eu-wince-eco-week/ar-BB1ds8PI?ocid=msedgntp

The British management of vaccine procurement has nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU. Any EU member could have done as the UK did. Purchasing vaccines on their own behalf was not Brexit dependent.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 07, 2021, 10:40:55 AM
BRexit Paying off for Brits in the covid-19 fight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-economic-cost-of-its-errors-will-make-the-eu-wince-eco-week/ar-BB1ds8PI?ocid=msedgntp

The British management of vaccine procurement has nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU. Any EU member could have done as the UK did. Purchasing vaccines on their own behalf was not Brexit dependent.

Wasn't there an EU wide procurement thing, that the EU bungled and we didn't participate in because of Brexit?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 07, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
Yes I have a friend whose two sisters got Covid-19. They both lived thru it but one was medical doctor and has been so disabled by it she will never work again. The other just had a horrible experience but now has recovered.  Not everyone has no symptoms. I get my second shot on Monday. The VA called me if I had not gotten the shot else where they were going to schedule me.


One of my friends in his early 50's has permanent organ damage. My wife's uncle was hospitalized for a month and has permanent organ damage. Although there is a high chance of survival if we get COVID, the damage done can shave off years of our life. Last year is was estimated COVID lowers life expectancy by 11-12 years. Hopefully with vaccines and treatments that number will be lowered. Unfortunately vaccines have been rushed and they may not last longer than a year. China really F'd us up and while their economy does well supplying the world with masks and other PPE.

China bought much more American cotton than it needed last year. It was part of a phase 1 trade deal they signed with America Jan 2020. Who would've thought that unwise cotton purchase could now help make masks and PPE gowns the world not desperately needs?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-29/china-has-amassed-1-billion-glut-of-u-s-cotton-it-doesn-t-need
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 07, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
BRexit Paying off for Brits in the covid-19 fight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-economic-cost-of-its-errors-will-make-the-eu-wince-eco-week/ar-BB1ds8PI?ocid=msedgntp

The British management of vaccine procurement has nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU. Any EU member could have done as the UK did. Purchasing vaccines on their own behalf was not Brexit dependent.

Wasn't there an EU wide procurement thing, that the EU bungled and we didn't participate in because of Brexit?

Yes there was. After countries caught on what happened with GB they started buying on their own without EU. Except for neth. Of corse. The holier than thou now landed us in deep shit and finally procured our own vaccines too
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 07, 2021, 12:15:44 PM
Yes, there is an EU wide buying program. The UK chose to not be a part of it. Any EU member could choose to do as we did. All EU members can choose to go it alone for urgent programs of this type.

It is unfortunate that people are being misled that going it alone to source vaccines was a Brexit issue. It isn't. If we were still in the EU we could've followed exactly the same course as we did.

Of course, had we not been leaving then it is possible that different choices might've been made, but that's pretty much unknowable as we were leaving the EU. That version of history is now closed to us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on February 10, 2021, 05:25:16 PM
OK on Monday I got the second shot of Pfizer and I am 95 per cent immune in two weeks. Now how long does the immunity last? Well they say is might only last three months. Also if you catch it you may only be immune as short as three months. This is a night mare. If the entire world's population is going to need a shot every three months I do not see an end to this disease. 

But the CDC says protection may wear off after three months, so people who had their last shot three months ago or more should still quarantine if they are exposed. They also should quarantine if they show symptoms, the CDC said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fully-vaccinated-people-can-skip-covid-quarantines-cdc-says/ar-BB1dA6Ve?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 10, 2021, 10:03:15 PM
OK on Monday I got the second shot of Pfizer and I am 95 per cent immune in two weeks. Now how long does the immunity last? Well they say is might only last three months. Also if you catch it you may only be immune as short as three months. This is a night mare. If the entire world's population is going to need a shot every three months I do not see an end to this disease. 

But the CDC says protection may wear off after three months, so people who had their last shot three months ago or more should still quarantine if they are exposed. They also should quarantine if they show symptoms, the CDC said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fully-vaccinated-people-can-skip-covid-quarantines-cdc-says/ar-BB1dA6Ve?ocid=msedgntp

If true, you'll need 8 shots of the Pfizer vaccine per year. With the new strain from UK, you may need a whole new vaccine. That may be for every new strain that shows up. After 20 strains are floating around, you may need 160 shots a year to achieve an adequate level of protection.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1358508146101207043
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 11, 2021, 06:25:56 AM
Now how long does the immunity last? Well they say is might only last three months. Also if you catch it you may only be immune as short as three months.   

That's just scaremongering as that hasn't been fully tested yet. The chances are the vaccine will protect you against most strains for years. They are making statements like that to cover their arse just in case. Plus as fewer people have it the more get vaccinated, the chances of catching it at all will plunge through the floor later on.

You're not worried about Bird Flu or Swine flu are you?

Also the vaccine will get tweaked along the way. This is only MK1. Like the flu vaccine it will get altered annually.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 11, 2021, 07:37:28 AM
Manny, spot on! The CDC and other authorities will not make a commitment to a period of protection that is not known. As these vaccines have not been in sue for more than a few months they cannot make claims for periods of time that are in excess of the periods for which they have been in use.

Previous corona viruses where vaccines have been used offer protection for many, many, years - that's down to the way the body's immune system works.

Even with new varieties of Covid-19 the current first generation vaccines seem to prevent serious illness and, for most of us, that's what we are most concerned about. Astra Zeneca are already working on a new version to cope better with the new mutations that are popping up and, for those who are concerned, a booster will be available from the autumn and that version will become the new standard for new vaccinations at that time.

The only public health issue arising seems to be that there is a reduced degree of protection from transmission with the new variants of the virus when the current vaccines are used. As an individual though, that's not a great concern. My concern is that I don't end up in hospital or dead. The current vaccines are pretty much totally effective at that with all current variants of the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on February 11, 2021, 07:57:50 AM

You're not worried about Bird Flu or Swine flu are you?

Also the vaccine will get tweaked along the way. This is only MK1. Like the flu vaccine it will get altered annually.

Have you had a vaccine for swine or bird flu?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 13, 2021, 11:34:16 AM

You're not worried about Bird Flu or Swine flu are you?

Also the vaccine will get tweaked along the way. This is only MK1. Like the flu vaccine it will get altered annually.

Have you had a vaccine for swine or bird flu?

I am not aware there is one for bird flu. There is one for swine flu but I never had it. I've had a slew of others recommended for those who travel in Asia. I had a pneumonia one not so long ago too.

My point was that as Covid decreases, which it will by herd immunity created by a mix of vaccination and post-infection immunity, instances will become more seldom down the road. People will then regard that low risk similar to what they do with bird and swine flu.

There's a lot of nonsense being spread around about immunity fading away, still being a carrier if vaccinated, vaccine not working on new strains, etc. Most of it is worst case speculation at best. Some of it is simply fake news. The likelihood is, as with any other similar virus, antibodies - whether acquired by infection or vaccine - will remain for many years and will be effective against current new strains. Which aren't that different in fact.

The UK is doing quite well, as of today 14m have had a first dose, which is 16% of the real population (21% of the official population). You can probably double that immunity if you add in those who have had it, so 30-40% of the population are already immune (or will be within 2 weeks) in real terms. They're jabbing over 400k people a week. Infection rates are plummeting. Herd immunity is just around the corner. It's pretty much over IMO.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on February 13, 2021, 12:46:51 PM
People are nuts about it here, you hear of a few cases
and folks screaming lock it down. we have 9 cases currently
in a population of just less than a million in our province
which is not quite as big as UK and people are terrified

Government has more travel lock downs in place if you leave,
can't travel from province to province, or you have to self isloate for 2 weeks.
Trudeau has pretty much screwed up vacine process so not sure
how fast that will happen, they are saying all will be done by Sept.
I have my doubts.

As far as how good vacine is, who knows only been out 2-3 months,
will take at least a year to know how well it works, how long it last
and how it reacts to different strains.

I know one thing, its getting tiresome and old with all the crap
they feed us and little no other info about anything.
funny how people suck up what they are being told,
without questioning anything.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on February 13, 2021, 02:12:59 PM

I am not aware there is one for bird flu. There is one for swine flu but I never had it. I've had a slew of others recommended for those who travel in Asia. I had a pneumonia one not so long ago too.

My point was that as Covid decreases, which it will by herd immunity created by a mix of vaccination and post-infection immunity, instances will become more seldom down the road. People will then regard that low risk similar to what they do with bird and swine flu.

There's a lot of nonsense being spread around about immunity fading away, still being a carrier if vaccinated, vaccine not working on new strains, etc. Most of it is worst case speculation at best. Some of it is simply fake news. The likelihood is, as with any other similar virus, antibodies - whether acquired by infection or vaccine - will remain for many years and will be effective against current new strains. Which aren't that different in fact.

The UK is doing quite well, as of today 14m have had a first dose, which is 16% of the real population (21% of the official population). You can probably double that immunity if you add in those who have had it, so 30-40% of the population are already immune (or will be within 2 weeks) in real terms. They're jabbing over 400k people a week. Infection rates are plummeting. Herd immunity is just around the corner. It's pretty much over IMO.

No I've never had a bird or swine flu vaccine either. I'm not going to take a covid vaccine in any event. I agree with you though it has slowed greatly everywhere.

I would challenge though, is that because the truth of the sickness and the cure is finally getting out? I've contended all along even though the virus is real the fearmongering has been political for the purpose of getting a vaccine in us. The purpose for that is what should be concerning. Why the rush for vaccine of an illness that only has a death rate (for the most compromised) of .03%? Have you seen the list of deaths from the vaccine?

Herd immunity has been hampered because of the distancing and lock downs. It would have happened without the vaccines and likely in the same time frame if it had been allowed to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 13, 2021, 03:53:41 PM
No I've never had a bird or swine flu vaccine either. I'm not going to take a covid vaccine in any event. I agree with you though it has slowed greatly everywhere.

I would challenge though, is that because the truth of the sickness and the cure is finally getting out? I've contended all along even though the virus is real the fearmongering has been political for the purpose of getting a vaccine in us. The purpose for that is what should be concerning. Why the rush for vaccine of an illness that only has a death rate (for the most compromised) of .03%? Have you seen the list of deaths from the vaccine?

Herd immunity has been hampered because of the distancing and lock downs. It would have happened without the vaccines and likely in the same time frame if it had been allowed to.

The actual number is 3% of those who contract COVID/Corona succumb.

It is amazing that there are those who still do not understand the reasoning for social distancing and lock downs.

Yes politicians have advocated an agenda but COVID deniers are the greater douchebags.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on February 13, 2021, 04:16:33 PM
No I've never had a bird or swine flu vaccine either. I'm not going to take a covid vaccine in any event. I agree with you though it has slowed greatly everywhere.

I would challenge though, is that because the truth of the sickness and the cure is finally getting out? I've contended all along even though the virus is real the fearmongering has been political for the purpose of getting a vaccine in us. The purpose for that is what should be concerning. Why the rush for vaccine of an illness that only has a death rate (for the most compromised) of .03%? Have you seen the list of deaths from the vaccine?

Herd immunity has been hampered because of the distancing and lock downs. It would have happened without the vaccines and likely in the same time frame if it had been allowed to.

The actual number is 3% of those who contract COVID/Corona succumb.

It is amazing that there are those who still do not understand the reasoning for social distancing and lock downs.

Yes politicians have advocated an agenda but COVID deniers are the greater douchebags.


What is amazing that there are still those that refuse to think for themselves and accept junk science as real. They are the real sheeple and douche bags. What's worse many of them believe themselves to be doing the right thing and course of action, because they were told to. Mask up, stay in your home, take the vaccine and be grateful for it. Follow the instruction given you and shut your pie hole
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 13, 2021, 05:14:36 PM
No I've never had a bird or swine flu vaccine either. I'm not going to take a covid vaccine in any event. I agree with you though it has slowed greatly everywhere.

I would challenge though, is that because the truth of the sickness and the cure is finally getting out? I've contended all along even though the virus is real the fearmongering has been political for the purpose of getting a vaccine in us. The purpose for that is what should be concerning. Why the rush for vaccine of an illness that only has a death rate (for the most compromised) of .03%? Have you seen the list of deaths from the vaccine?

Herd immunity has been hampered because of the distancing and lock downs. It would have happened without the vaccines and likely in the same time frame if it had been allowed to.

The actual number is 3% of those who contract COVID/Corona succumb.

It is amazing that there are those who still do not understand the reasoning for social distancing and lock downs.

Yes politicians have advocated an agenda but COVID deniers are the greater douchebags.


What is amazing that there are still those that refuse to think for themselves and accept junk science as real. They are the real sheeple and douche bags. What's worse many of them believe themselves to be doing the right thing and course of action, because they were told to. Mask up, stay in your home, take the vaccine and be grateful for it. Follow the instruction given you and shut your pie hole

FP, that counting beyond 20 is a challenge of you with your socks off is not my issue. Clearly basic math is not your strong suit.

No I am not in any rush to get the vaccine, yes I think using a mask, even though it offers marginal protection is the correct thing to do. If you wish to exist beyond acceptable social norms as a bubble gum brain, please feel free to continue.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on February 14, 2021, 08:16:57 AM
The actual number is 3% of those who contract COVID/Corona succumb.

It isn't. Its less than 1%. And most of those are over 80 and/or have underlying health issues.

Not serious enough to lock down most of the world.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on February 14, 2021, 08:31:08 AM
that counting beyond 20 is a challenge of you with your socks off is not my issue.
I had no idea that having my socks on or off affected my math skills. Thanks for the tip.  ;D
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 14, 2021, 11:29:58 AM
 Imagine that.... as soon as Trump is gone Hydroxychloroquine gets approved by the AMA   (:)

 https://politicalvelcraft.org/2020/12/22/american-medical-association-approves-hydroxychloroquine/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 14, 2021, 11:50:21 AM
Imagine that.... as soon as Trump is gone Hydroxychloroquine gets approved by the AMA   (:)

 https://politicalvelcraft.org/2020/12/22/american-medical-association-approves-hydroxychloroquine/

Perhaps reading and understanding the article would be useful.

Hydroxychloroquine is indeed a useful middle, against Malaria. In a wide range of tests it has produced NO useful defense or protection to COVID.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: d672 on February 14, 2021, 12:12:14 PM
 Hundreds of frontline doctors disagree with you Av, and they were censored and demonized for speaking up. We were told it was too dangerous to treat covid with yet it was ok for Lupus, malaria and arthritis. It was so obviously political it isn't even funny

 And I will believe a doctor like this, who had patients coming to him for treatment because word was out that people were recovering when they went to his clinic instead of dying when they went to the hospital, someone who never lost one patient to covid, before I would believe some other unknown study. His is a hands on study that speaks for itself


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on February 14, 2021, 12:41:07 PM
Hooked back up with my scientist friend last week, who has been busy dealing with the virus and expanding his business.

I asked him what he thought about Sobyanin's (Moscow mayor) claim back in January that Moscow would be functioning closely to pre-COVID times by May as long as everyone does their part, e.g. get vaccinated/tested (not mandatory), restrict contact, and other protocols.

He didn't hesitate to say "yes, I think so". He's on the front line here.

I've already noticed gyms have removed the social distancing stickers on cardio machines/weight areas and other softening of restrictions around town if that means anything. You still have to wear masks in crowded areas/businesses.

I also asked him about hydroxychloroquine and he said that it was used back in Feb-April of last year, and was effective if administered early, but there are much better drugs and treatments now for the illness. The difference, according to him, in the treatment and overall handling of COVID is night and day compare to last year this time, i.e., much better.

History has shown that viruses like this have about a 1-2 yr shelf life, generally speaking, and I think this virus was around before 2020, maybe November of 2019. We're about 15 months in, give or take.

Chin up lads, brighter days await. At least that's the view from Russia and a Russian point of view.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on February 14, 2021, 05:38:49 PM
Imagine that.... as soon as Trump is gone Hydroxychloroquine gets approved by the AMA   (:)

 https://politicalvelcraft.org/2020/12/22/american-medical-association-approves-hydroxychloroquine/

Perhaps reading and understanding the article would be useful.

Hydroxychloroquine is indeed a useful middle, against Malaria. In a wide range of tests it has produced NO useful defense or protection to COVID.


not scientific but I have a close friend that used it successfully last year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 15, 2021, 01:13:05 AM
Imagine that.... as soon as Trump is gone Hydroxychloroquine gets approved by the AMA   (:)

 https://politicalvelcraft.org/2020/12/22/american-medical-association-approves-hydroxychloroquine/

Perhaps reading and understanding the article would be useful.

Hydroxychloroquine is indeed a useful middle, against Malaria. In a wide range of tests it has produced NO useful defense or protection to COVID.


not scientific but I have a close friend that used it successfully last year.

The problem with Hydroxychloroquine is that Covid works in 2 ways:

- 1) Your anti-viral system goes into overdrive and attacks your own organs (mostly lungs). In this case Hydroxychloroquine works.
- 2) Your anti-viral system is not strong enough to battle covid and covid destroys your lungs. In this case Hydroxychloroquine actually is the final nail in your coffin.

And because of point 2) doctors are very, very hesitant to prescribe hydroxychloroquine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on February 16, 2021, 04:37:49 AM
(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/151136708_1396542827357883_8120220709128840860_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=jxAuv3hFgRcAX-JCiXx&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=cf21d009dce6c89521878a74f0494bb7&oe=60521C44)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 16, 2021, 12:15:40 PM

 I don't dispute Hydroxychloroquine can work but it can also hurt since it suppresses the immune system.

Anybody know about the ROTHSCHILDS PATENTED COVID-19 BIOMETRIC TESTS IN 2015. AND 2017 in the Netherlands?

https://silview.media/2020/10/04/atomic-bombshell-rothschilds-patented-covid-19-biometric-tests-in-2015-and-2017/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 16, 2021, 01:14:14 PM
More lies to delude poor people like Billykins.

A question to help you Billykins. What is the distinguishing feature of a patent and compared to a trade secret in terms of information?

To help you with the question Billy, did you bother to click through to the source website, the Dutch one? Probably not or you'd not have needed to post and make yourself look daft.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 16, 2021, 03:38:42 PM
More lies to delude poor people like Billykins.

A question to help you Billykins. What is the distinguishing feature of a patent and compared to a trade secret in terms of information?

To help you with the question Billy, did you bother to click through to the source website, the Dutch one? Probably not or you'd not have needed to post and make yourself look daft.

Andrew, you continue to prove yourself dumber than a box of rocks. I asked a question. Apparently you don't have an answer so run along and let someone else answer the question.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 16, 2021, 08:39:50 PM

Now that elections are over, it's okay to show Democrats manipulated the death numbers of those who died in nursing homes after NY Governor Cuomo ordered the elderly who are COVID positive to remain there which led to spread and more deaths. Cuomo was once praised for doing an awesome job handling the Pandemic and people wanted him to be President. He doesn't have to worry about losing his job. If his name was Trump, he'd be impeached and charged with murder.

Some of the warning I've wrote about vaccines here would get me banned if I posted my concerns on Facebook. Social media's agenda is to get people to take the vaccines without question after they promote only positive news on vaccines. FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/watch-facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-takes-anti-vax-stance-violates-platform-policy/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 17, 2021, 01:22:32 AM
FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.

Luckily for us, Zuckerberg is not a doctor. Nothing in this world can alter your DNA.

If you have a defect in your DNA for some reason, its there for life.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 17, 2021, 02:18:39 AM
Billy, had you read the links you shared you'd not have needed to make yourself look a twat.

The article is a fake, the image is a fake. if you click the link to the source document you can see that it is a fake.

So, let us ask a question here. Why would Billykins post a link to a dishonest article that lies to its readers unless he thought it was truthful? The sensible reader would've clicked onto the source document and seen that the page Billykins linked to was promoting a lie. Just as with many other pages promoting falsehoods to lazy, stupid people, the writers assume that their readers cannot be bothered to click onto links. In Billykins' case, they were right - he couldn't be arsed to read the source link and so did not see that the article to which he linked was untrue from top to bottom.

So, Billykins, now you know. Because you were too credulous and lazy to even check the link on your page, you believed what you saw and wanted us to see it. You wanted us to buy into your delusions.

So, now you have two answers, I gave you the information that you could've garnered for yourself and I gave you the information to help you to do some learning. Because you are couldn't even bother reading for yourself, you get the reality pointed out to you again.

Billykins, smart people can get away with being lazy. Hard workers can get away with being dumb. Nobody can get away with being both lazy and dumb - so don't try it.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on February 17, 2021, 07:13:15 AM
Billy, had you read the links you shared you'd not have needed to make yourself look a twat.

The article is a fake, the image is a fake. if you click the link to the source document you can see that it is a fake.

So, let us ask a question here. Why would Billykins post a link to a dishonest article that lies to its readers unless he thought it was truthful? The sensible reader would've clicked onto the source document and seen that the page Billykins linked to was promoting a lie. Just as with many other pages promoting falsehoods to lazy, stupid people, the writers assume that their readers cannot be bothered to click onto links. In Billykins' case, they were right - he couldn't be arsed to read the source link and so did not see that the article to which he linked was untrue from top to bottom.

So, Billykins, now you know. Because you were too credulous and lazy to even check the link on your page, you believed what you saw and wanted us to see it. You wanted us to buy into your delusions.

So, now you have two answers, I gave you the information that you could've garnered for yourself and I gave you the information to help you to do some learning. Because you are couldn't even bother reading for yourself, you get the reality pointed out to you again.

Billykins, smart people can get away with being lazy. Hard workers can get away with being dumb. Nobody can get away with being both lazy and dumb - so don't try it.

So now we have The Amazing FiFi declare the article a lie and viola, it is a fake? Please share your illuminating insight to us mere pheasants and explain how you came to such a hypothesis? Is Zuckerberg's voice fake? Do you challenge the author Veritas of faking the story, what? Please explain yourself oh great one?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on February 17, 2021, 07:22:03 AM

Luckily for us, Zuckerberg is not a doctor. Nothing in this world can alter your DNA.

If you have a defect in your DNA for some reason, its there for life.

Bill Gates isn't a doctor either but he's playing one on TV. The purpose of RNA is to alter DNA. That is the premise that the vaccine efficacy. It changes one's DNA for force the body to develop anti bodies to fight the virus. And yes the DNA is altered permanently until one is given something to correct it. Don't wait on those injections, they ain't coming. RNA is synthetic man made with multiple purposes to change the roadmap of your DNA. Don't take the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 17, 2021, 07:49:31 AM
faux pas, please take reading comprehension lessons. When you have learned to understand what you read you will discover that you are going on about the wrong item. :)

Yeah, I understand that it will take you a year or two to reach normal levels of reading comprehension, but I am a patient man.  :'(

Oh, RNA does not rewrite our DNA, that is not how this stuff works. For your education, ask a literate friend to help you to read the following:
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/will-mrna-vaccine-alter-my-dna
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on February 17, 2021, 08:41:56 AM
faux pas, please take reading comprehension lessons. When you have learned to understand what you read you will discover that you are going on about the wrong item. :)

Yeah, I understand that it will take you a year or two to reach normal levels of reading comprehension, but I am a patient man.  :'(

Oh, RNA does not rewrite our DNA, that is not how this stuff works. For your education, ask a literate friend to help you to read the following:
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/will-mrna-vaccine-alter-my-dna

Yet more dodge and obfuscation from the Great all Illuminated one. I merely asked you to prove your accusation and all you have is more nothing. You apparently wish to do nothing but cast unsubstantiated claims of my comprehension skills. What about my inquiry did you not understand? If you just ask, I'll he happy to break it down to a level that you'll have a better chance to grasp.

Tsk tsk FiFi. Please show me or point out where I said anything about RNA rewriting DNA? It would seem you didn't understand that statement either. Quite the strawman you're building there. If you do not know what a strawman is, please ask and I'll be happy to explain it to you. You my little friend are living in a fantasy world of your own making. Delusional would be the best way to describe it, a false sense of intellectual superiority.

If one didn't know better they would think Moby might posting with your nick they way you just grabbed any old link and posted it as something that would possibly back your assertions when they actually do the opposite. Put down the kool aid Fi. Gavi is another vaccine merchant selling his wares. Besides, that wasn't even my contention, just your strawman.

It's usually futile to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 17, 2021, 08:52:52 AM

Now that elections are over, it's okay to show Democrats manipulated the death numbers of those who died in nursing homes after NY Governor Cuomo ordered the elderly who are COVID positive to remain there which led to spread and more deaths. Cuomo was once praised for doing an awesome job handling the Pandemic and people wanted him to be President. He doesn't have to worry about losing his job. If his name was Trump, he'd be impeached and charged with murder.

Some of the warning I've wrote about vaccines here would get me banned if I posted my concerns on Facebook. Social media's agenda is to get people to take the vaccines without question after they promote only positive news on vaccines. FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/watch-facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-takes-anti-vax-stance-violates-platform-policy/

Because I am in CT it is amusing to watch A. Cuomo squirm. In all fairness his options during the first wave were limited by available options and knowledge.

The Gateway Pundit is distributing a piece produced by Project Veritas. This organization has an awesome record for paying substantial monies out from the result of spreading misinformation and lies.

Having noted the above I am not in any rush to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 17, 2021, 07:41:40 PM
FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.

Luckily for us, Zuckerberg is not a doctor. Nothing in this world can alter your DNA.

If you have a defect in your DNA for some reason, its there for life.


Zuckerberg has lots of money and access to experts who will tell the truth, not give him a sales pitch to get him to take the vaccine. I'm not a fan of Zuckerberg but if he's concern about mRNA vaccines, there's a good reason for it.

In 2017, Moderna wrote DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person's DNA

http://newsubnormal.com/do-dna-vaccines-permanently-alter-dna/



Now that elections are over, it's okay to show Democrats manipulated the death numbers of those who died in nursing homes after NY Governor Cuomo ordered the elderly who are COVID positive to remain there which led to spread and more deaths. Cuomo was once praised for doing an awesome job handling the Pandemic and people wanted him to be President. He doesn't have to worry about losing his job. If his name was Trump, he'd be impeached and charged with murder.

Some of the warning I've wrote about vaccines here would get me banned if I posted my concerns on Facebook. Social media's agenda is to get people to take the vaccines without question after they promote only positive news on vaccines. FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/watch-facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-takes-anti-vax-stance-violates-platform-policy/

Because I am in CT it is amusing to watch A. Cuomo squirm. In all fairness his options during the first wave were limited by available options and knowledge.

The Gateway Pundit is distributing a piece produced by Project Veritas. This organization has an awesome record for paying substantial monies out from the result of spreading misinformation and lies.

Having noted the above I am not in any rush to get vaccinated.


Gateway Pundit is right leaning news. Project Veritas has significantly grown since the Nov 3rd fraudulent election. They are the go to place for whistleblowers. They get audio and video recordings of CEOs at MSM and Social Media that show how they manufacture fake news and control the narrative.

Joe Biden said vaccines didn't exist when he took office. Joe forgot he got vaccinated in December

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/joe-biden-lies-anderson-cooper-cnn-town-hall-didnt-covid-vaccine-came-office-video/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on February 17, 2021, 10:12:26 PM
[attachimg=1]

pmsl

Nice one steviebaby..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on February 18, 2021, 12:44:59 AM
FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.

Luckily for us, Zuckerberg is not a doctor. Nothing in this world can alter your DNA.

If you have a defect in your DNA for some reason, its there for life.


Zuckerberg has lots of money and access to experts who will tell the truth, not give him a sales pitch to get him to take the vaccine. I'm not a fan of Zuckerberg but if he's concern about mRNA vaccines, there's a good reason for it.

In 2017, Moderna wrote DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person's DNA

http://newsubnormal.com/do-dna-vaccines-permanently-alter-dna/

Even if there is concern about mRNA , it still can't change your DNA. And if Moderna thinks it can, I am sure as hell not taking their vaccine because they have no idea about the laws of nature. You can't break them just as you can't break the law that says if you drop something heavy it always falls down and not up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 24, 2021, 08:54:30 AM
Well, there's a surprise. I just got a notification to get a covid-19 vaccination. I was not expecting that until late March to mid-April.

Things seem to be going faster in the UK than expected.

Oh, Billy, mRNA is not the same as DNA. The article to which you linked makes no adverse claims about mRNA vaccines.

I believe I have already shared here information about what RNA is and how an mRNA vaccine works. We are not using DNA vaccines to deal with covid-19.

I think that for many people we might as well just say 'it's witchcraft' whenever there's a query about this vaccine stuff because it is clear that for many people there is simply no way for them to understand what is actually happening. In such a case, there's no difference between science and magic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 24, 2021, 08:53:25 PM
Oh, Billy, mRNA is not the same as DNA.


Can you quote me where I said they were the same? No you can't. You're imagining things again. Earlier I sent links from the FDA and Pfizer showing some studies such as reproductive toxidity has not been concluded. There are some studies for medicines and vaccines that require time and not enough time has passed to conclude those studies. You can take an mRNA vaccine if you want. I prefer a vaccine that's been created using a method that studies have shown to be safe for the body.


I'm not an Alex Jones fan but here's a 2010 video telling of a plan named 'Lock Step" by the Globalists to create a pandemic killing millions, shutting down everything, quarantining us, forced vaccines and making us wear masks. There will be more government control.

http://banthis.tv/watch?id=6036b7aee6c57d1942d13371
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on February 26, 2021, 11:05:57 PM
I may take the Johnson and Johnson vaccine which uses a harmless cold coronavirus to train the immune system to attack. This technology been used to make vaccines in the past.  It's less effective than mRNA vaccines but nobody has died after acquiring COVID. In other words, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine can help with survival if it doesn't stop the Coronavirus in its tracks. Also, other benefits include it's more easier to store and people will need only one shot instead of two.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-cleared-for-expected-fda-authorization-within-days/ar-BB1e3vdc?ocid=msedgntp


When this WHO article was written in late Jan, they still have not approved mRNA vaccines for emergency use.

http://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-moderna-covid-19-mrna-1273-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know


Ivy League school University of Pennsylvania questions the safety of mRNA since not enough studies have been conducted on it.

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/cep/COVID/mRNA%20vaccine%20review%20final.pdf


Covid stats on Florida and NY. Who did better?

http://gab.com/F16VIPER01/posts/105796801213912326


Biden said vaccines didn't exist when he came into office but here is evidence of him getting the vaccine shot not once, but twice! How did he forget that experience? Dementia.

http://gab.com/F16VIPER01/posts/105796807390847060
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on February 27, 2021, 06:47:20 AM
I may take the Johnson and Johnson vaccine which uses a harmless cold coronavirus to train the immune system to attack. This technology been used to make vaccines in the past.  It's less effective than mRNA vaccines but nobody has died after acquiring COVID. In other words, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine can help with survival if it doesn't stop the Coronavirus in its tracks. Also, other benefits include it's more easier to store and people will need only one shot instead of two.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-cleared-for-expected-fda-authorization-within-days/ar-BB1e3vdc?ocid=msedgntp

I am also intrigued by the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Below is an article (link) discussing the first two vaccines.

https://thenutritionwatchdog.com/covid-19-vaccine-update-9-things-you-should-know-before-getting-vaccinated/?utm_source=paid&utm_campaign=vaccine
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 01, 2021, 08:11:37 AM
As far as I can see, presently with warm temperatures and melting snow, The United States has approved the new vaccine of Johnson & Johnson for COVID 19, I wonder though will other nations approve it as well.

My guess, to travel Internationally, one will see the need for some form of identification or proof of inoculation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 01, 2021, 08:42:29 AM
AvHdB, the process of proving one's vaccination/infection status has already started. Travellers to Estonia can now avoid the need for self isolation if they can demonstrate that they have completed a course of vaccination or have recently been declared to have recovered from a Covid-19 infection.

In Estonia one can get, from one's doctor, a certificate declaring that one has been infected with Covid and recovered. In respect of vaccinations, the documentation specifically refers to the UK and has been worded in such a way that the vaccination records currently being used in the UK are valid for incoming travel.

----------------------------------------
Billy, go read your own posts. If you understood how DNA and RNA work you would not have posted as you did above - not if you were being honest anyway.

It is clear that reading is not great for you. You can't even tell when a question has been answered.  :'(

But why would you ask a question about a page that was obviously fake unless you though it was real? The sensible person might have pointed out a fake page as evidence of the way that fools are being misled.

You were so confused that you could not even recognise that my post answered your question. I told you what I thought of the page you linked to and even helped you to be able to recognise why it was untrue. :)




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 01, 2021, 08:47:43 PM
Billy, go read your own posts. If you understood how DNA and RNA work you would not have posted as you did above - not if you were being honest anyway.


FaceBook CEO Mark Zuckerberg got caught saying we don't know the long term side affects of modifying people's DNA and RNA.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/watch-facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-takes-anti-vax-stance-violates-platform-policy/

This is what I posted that got you upset. If you have a problem with what Zuckerberg said, register your complaint with him. While you're at it, get your head examined by a professional.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 01, 2021, 11:16:22 PM
What's in Mark Zuckerberg's past would make us think he knows anything about vaccines? The video looked fake to me also. The material in the vaccine is destroyed in the body short term so why would there be a long term effect? The effects of these vaccines do not last long. So please explain why you think someone is going to have a long term effect? I got the Pfizer vaccine and it cause me no pain other than the physical needle and no after effects at all. I have had both doses. So the anti vaccine people come up with all this fake stuff to tell us the vaccine is dangerous. The old method of making vaccines of Killing the virus and injecting it puts a much wider range of genetic material in the body creating a much higher risk of side effects.

I know Donald Trump is still president because the army is going to come in and put him back in power.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 02, 2021, 05:26:20 PM
What's in Mark Zuckerberg's past would make us think he knows anything about vaccines?


He's a very rich guy and has access to the best doctors and scientists.


The material in the vaccine is destroyed in the body short term so why would there be a long term effect?


Did you know most vaccines and medicines never make it to the market? Moderna has been in business 11 years and they've never had an mRNA vaccine approved to be used on humans until now based on an emergency and relaxing the safety rules.


I know Donald Trump is still president because the army is going to come in and put him back in power.   


I'm hoping that happens soon. You got insider info on this?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 02, 2021, 06:04:34 PM

China apologizes for forcing Biden officials to take COVID anal swab tests.


http://breaking911.com/china-apologizes-for-forcing-members-of-the-biden-administration-to-take-anal-swab-covid-19-test/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 02, 2021, 10:49:42 PM

Did you know most vaccines and medicines never make it to the market? Moderna has been in business 11 years and they've never had an mRNA vaccine approved to be used on humans until now based on an emergency and relaxing the safety rules.


Yes I do know this and there is a variety of reason for this. But realized that the mRNA vaccine contains much less mRNA than standard vaccine to potentially cause harm. An ex girlfriend I know got a standard type vaccine at her hospital where she works. She claims she got sick and had a miss a day of work and felt off for days.  She said this was normal for this vaccine. She claims that this hospital did this because they are cheap and did not want to spring for the money to buy Pfizer like I got and the refrigeration system Pfizer it requires.

Moderna was a research company. They were not trying to bring any meds to the market until recently.  They were just paid to do research and sell the results. They lacked the funds to do the trials until the US government gave them the funding they needed.  If it was not for covid-19 they likely would never got enough money to do large trials and bring any meds to the market.  You have to understand the reason for the statements you make.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 03, 2021, 12:25:12 AM
Moderna was a research company. They were not trying to bring any meds to the market until recently.  They were just paid to do research and sell the results. They lacked the funds to do the trials until the US government gave them the funding they needed.  If it was not for covid-19 they likely would never got enough money to do large trials and bring any meds to the market.  You have to understand the reason for the statements you make.


From the beginning, Moderna was trying to bring products to the market. In the link below you will see all their work. They get funding from our government, international and domestic partners. Their partners who supplied the funds want results and a return on their investment. None of their work made it to phase 3 trials except for COVID which not only made it to phase 3, but gotten emergency approval. All this can be read at their website below. I will not take an mRNA vaccine. Somebody else can be the test subjects. We still have lots to learn about this new technology and if you read the FDA and Moderna's vaccine info, they admit some studies like reproductive toxicity, have not yet concluded.

https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 03, 2021, 07:58:20 AM
AvHdB, the process of proving one's vaccination/infection status has already started. Travellers to Estonia can now avoid the need for self isolation if they can demonstrate that they have completed a course of vaccination or have recently been declared to have recovered from a Covid-19 infection.

In Estonia one can get, from one's doctor, a certificate declaring that one has been infected with Covid and recovered. In respect of vaccinations, the documentation specifically refers to the UK and has been worded in such a way that the vaccination records currently being used in the UK are valid for incoming travel.

For what it is worth, the below from Wikipedia. I suspect this passport or however you wish to describe the document will become the new norm.

Wise, formerly TransferWise has suspended the release of such a document as it develops and refines its 'passport'.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunity_passport

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 03, 2021, 10:30:40 AM
I was given a proof of vaccination card with a number to call to verify it is real when I received my vaccination.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 03, 2021, 10:36:12 AM
Moderna was a research company. They were not trying to bring any meds to the market until recently.  They were just paid to do research and sell the results. They lacked the funds to do the trials until the US government gave them the funding they needed.  If it was not for covid-19 they likely would never got enough money to do large trials and bring any meds to the market.  You have to understand the reason for the statements you make.


From the beginning, Moderna was trying to bring products to the market. In the link below you will see all their work. They get funding from our government, international and domestic partners. Their partners who supplied the funds want results and a return on their investment. None of their work made it to phase 3 trials except for COVID which not only made it to phase 3, but gotten emergency approval. All this can be read at their website below. I will not take an mRNA vaccine. Somebody else can be the test subjects. We still have lots to learn about this new technology and if you read the FDA and Moderna's vaccine info, they admit some studies like reproductive toxicity, have not yet concluded.

https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline

Go head and take the more dangerous vaccine and get sick. Not my problem. I guess you say the same about Pfizer the vaccine I took?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 03, 2021, 11:59:00 PM
Moderna was a research company. They were not trying to bring any meds to the market until recently.  They were just paid to do research and sell the results. They lacked the funds to do the trials until the US government gave them the funding they needed.  If it was not for covid-19 they likely would never got enough money to do large trials and bring any meds to the market.  You have to understand the reason for the statements you make.


From the beginning, Moderna was trying to bring products to the market. In the link below you will see all their work. They get funding from our government, international and domestic partners. Their partners who supplied the funds want results and a return on their investment. None of their work made it to phase 3 trials except for COVID which not only made it to phase 3, but gotten emergency approval. All this can be read at their website below. I will not take an mRNA vaccine. Somebody else can be the test subjects. We still have lots to learn about this new technology and if you read the FDA and Moderna's vaccine info, they admit some studies like reproductive toxicity, have not yet concluded.

https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline

Go head and take the more dangerous vaccine and get sick. Not my problem. I guess you say the same about Pfizer the vaccine I took?

Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines are mRNA based so yes, I'd say the same. What do you think a more dangerous vaccine is? mRNA medicine may turn out to be great stuff in the future but I don't want to be one of the first people to experiment with a rushed version.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 04, 2021, 05:30:51 AM
I don't want to be one of the first people to experiment with a rushed version.

You understand that millions of people have been vaccinated already? Nobody is growing extra limbs or turning into a vegetable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on March 04, 2021, 07:43:07 AM

Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines are mRNA based so yes, I'd say the same. What do you think a more dangerous vaccine is? mRNA medicine may turn out to be great stuff in the future but I don't want to be one of the first people to experiment with a rushed version.

And it may not. It could be just the opposite. I suspect there is much more to mRNA than we know or being told by those that do know. Ion particles designed to affect one's immune system for a supposed virus that kills less than .05% seems quite extreme (even those numbers could be greatly exaggerated). An immune system that will fight that same virus given the chance. The bigger question is, why does Big Pharma want to get that synthetic adjustment inside of us?


You understand that millions of people have been vaccinated already? Nobody is growing extra limbs or turning into a vegetable.

If that is what you're waiting on don't hold your breath.  But the vaxx is killing some people and bringing much more on the brink of death. Funny we're not seeing those numbers very often?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 04, 2021, 11:00:44 AM
I don't want to be one of the first people to experiment with a rushed version.

You understand that millions of people have been vaccinated already? Nobody is growing extra limbs or turning into a vegetable.

Do you know why the overwhelming majority of medicines and vaccines never get approval to make it to the market? There have been no long term studies done on mRNA vaccines to discover any negative effects. I don’t mind taking a vaccine that was created by a tried and true process. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine basically pumps a harmless coronavirus that causes the common cold into our bodies to train our immune system to be ready for SARS Covid-2. There are options when it comes to vaccines. There’s no reason to trust new technology that’s been rushed to the market.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 04, 2021, 11:52:28 AM
I don't want to be one of the first people to experiment with a rushed version.

You understand that millions of people have been vaccinated already? Nobody is growing extra limbs or turning into a vegetable.

Do you know why the overwhelming majority of medicines and vaccines never get approval to make it to the market? There have been no long term studies done on mRNA vaccines to discover any negative effects. I don’t mind taking a vaccine that was created by a tried and true process. The Johnson and Johnson vaccine basically pumps a harmless coronavirus that causes the common cold into our bodies to train our immune system to be ready for SARS Covid-2. There are options when it comes to vaccines. There’s no reason to trust new technology that’s been rushed to the market.

This has been what I pondered up thread.

If I understand the reality correctly from what I have read, and I am not a doctor, the J & J vaccine is old school. If my understanding is correct the so-called Russian vaccine, Sputnik V, was also developed on the same 'principle'.

What I am guessing is there will be a duel between the different approaches, and in the end it will come down to money.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 04, 2021, 10:18:11 PM
Moderna was a research company. They were not trying to bring any meds to the market until recently.  They were just paid to do research and sell the results. They lacked the funds to do the trials until the US government gave them the funding they needed.  If it was not for covid-19 they likely would never got enough money to do large trials and bring any meds to the market.  You have to understand the reason for the statements you make.


From the beginning, Moderna was trying to bring products to the market. In the link below you will see all their work. They get funding from our government, international and domestic partners. Their partners who supplied the funds want results and a return on their investment. None of their work made it to phase 3 trials except for COVID which not only made it to phase 3, but gotten emergency approval. All this can be read at their website below. I will not take an mRNA vaccine. Somebody else can be the test subjects. We still have lots to learn about this new technology and if you read the FDA and Moderna's vaccine info, they admit some studies like reproductive toxicity, have not yet concluded.

https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline

The average time to bring a drug to market in the USA is twelve years. If it were not for emergency approval we would get a vaccine in about eleven more years. Why would a shorter mRNA product more toxic to reproduction than a longer chain? All virus vaccines are mRNA vaccines what we are talking about is how the mRNA is produced, in a lab or by nature by the virus and then kill it and taking a part of it. 

Drug Approvals - From Invention to Market ... A 12- Year Trip. In the United States, it takes an average of 12 years for an experimental drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet. That is, if it makes it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 04, 2021, 11:56:28 PM
Moderna was a research company. They were not trying to bring any meds to the market until recently.  They were just paid to do research and sell the results. They lacked the funds to do the trials until the US government gave them the funding they needed.  If it was not for covid-19 they likely would never got enough money to do large trials and bring any meds to the market.  You have to understand the reason for the statements you make.


From the beginning, Moderna was trying to bring products to the market. In the link below you will see all their work. They get funding from our government, international and domestic partners. Their partners who supplied the funds want results and a return on their investment. None of their work made it to phase 3 trials except for COVID which not only made it to phase 3, but gotten emergency approval. All this can be read at their website below. I will not take an mRNA vaccine. Somebody else can be the test subjects. We still have lots to learn about this new technology and if you read the FDA and Moderna's vaccine info, they admit some studies like reproductive toxicity, have not yet concluded.

https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline

The average time to bring a drug to market in the USA is twelve years. If it were not for emergency approval we would get a vaccine in about eleven more years. Why would a shorter mRNA product more toxic to reproduction than a longer chain? All virus vaccines are mRNA vaccines what we are talking about is how the mRNA is produced, in a lab or by nature by the virus and then kill it and taking a part of it. 

Drug Approvals - From Invention to Market ... A 12- Year Trip. In the United States, it takes an average of 12 years for an experimental drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet. That is, if it makes it.

While the approval for a new drug in the United States is a very broad spectrum.

In the end there are only two reasons that drugs fail to make it to your 'cabinet'.

One because said drug (or vaccine) is not financially viable and two . . .
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 07, 2021, 06:04:16 AM
Fewer than 24 hours since the wheels on my big metal bird touched the tarmac and Gatwick airport and I got my first phone call from the UK Test & Trace people. Nice and polite and had the good sense not to ask me if I was self-isolating, just to check that I understood the need for it and that I agreed to do it.

I'd be surprised if I did not receive a follow-up call or two.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 07, 2021, 12:22:16 PM

American media is claiming Russia is putting out disinformation on American vaccines. I read the article and I don't see disinformation. American vaccines were rushed and there are serious side effects. I know one woman who lost a total of two weeks work because she felt very sick after each shot of the Pfizer vaccine.

http://nypost.com/2021/03/07/russian-intelligence-trying-to-undermine-pfizer-covid-vaccine/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2021, 05:41:03 AM
This popped up on my phone today.

[attachimg=1]

Ask not for whom the bell tolls..............
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2021, 06:49:33 AM
Not just for thee!

I booked for a Saturday morning jab.

Oh, here's a word to the wise. If such things bother you...

Due to the necessity for keeping at low temperatures the Pfizer vaccine is being doled out, on the whole, at hospital-related venues.

If the Oxford vaccine is your preference then go to a mass vaccination venue that is not a hospital.

Just passing some words on that were passed to me. However, it does make some sense given the differing requirements for refrigeration.

So, according to the unthinkers, go to a hospital if you want to have your DNA changed, be tracked by Bill Gates and have your sperm mutated. Go to a sports hall if you want to remain human - with a little touch of a chimpanzee!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2021, 08:55:07 AM


For the few months COVID vaccines came out, in America 578 deaths happened after people took the Moderna vaccine, 578 deaths happened after people take the Pfizer vaccine. 5 deaths happened after taking a vaccine from an unknown manufacture. 1153 deaths so far from all COVID vaccines.

 I did a search for deaths that happened for all influenza vaccines in the last 40 years and the total deaths are 1184 which is almost the same as the COVID deaths that happened within a few months. Those taking the COVID vaccine are 100 times more likely to die compared to those taking the flu vaccine. This could be mRNA related. It's such a powerful vaccine that they can't give it in one shot. A COVID vaccine like Johnson and Johnson's may lower the death rate as it gets distributed since it's created like many of the flu vaccines we take. Here's the link to the CDC search engine.

https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2021, 10:01:34 AM
Oh, here's a word to the wise. If such things bother you...

Due to the necessity for keeping at low temperatures the Pfizer vaccine is being doled out, on the whole, at hospital-related venues.

If the Oxford vaccine is your preference then go to a mass vaccination venue that is not a hospital.

Just passing some words on that were passed to me. However, it does make some sense given the differing requirements for refrigeration.

So, according to the unthinkers, go to a hospital if you want to have your DNA changed, be tracked by Bill Gates and have your sperm mutated. Go to a sports hall if you want to remain human - with a little touch of a chimpanzee!

I was wondering if there was a particular one to go for actually. Much of Google is dominated by the MSM and government propaganda so its hard to drill down into the truth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2021, 10:06:38 AM
Manny, from what I have seen there's no real reason to choose one over the other. The real efficacy numbers are pretty much within margin of error levels both in terms of the likelihood of getting the virus or of being seriously ill between the two.

I'd be happy to take either but given that my second will probably be in another country the Oxford version might be more convenient.

Of course, if you believe in boogy man stories then you will probably reject both and forget about traveling for a couple of years.


Always helpful here. So, Billy, here's your homework. It'll tell you whether you're something of an idle dumbass or whether your ill-informed concerns have some basis in reality.

Here's what you do.
1) check the overall deathrate among people aged 60 and above. That's the age range in which most vaccinations have taken place.
2) check the deathrate for people who have died at some time close to being vaccinated.

For consistency, in both cases figure out the monthly death rate.

If your maff is as capable as others you will find that among the millions who have been vaccinated quite a few would be expected to die. You'll also find that the numbers for deaths are not elevated above expected levels. For accuracy you might want to deduct the number in the vaccinated cohort who died with/of covid-19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
For the few months COVID vaccines came out, in America 578 deaths happened after people took the Moderna vaccine, 578 deaths happened after people take the Pfizer vaccine. 5 deaths happened after taking a vaccine from an unknown manufacture. 1153 deaths so far from all COVID vaccines.

Deaths after the vaccine don't necessarily mean death because of the vaccine. You're conflating two different things to come to an assumption.

People die. Some of them may happen to die after taking the vaccine. Some may die a few days after drinking a glass of orange juice. That doesn't mean the orange juice killed them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2021, 10:11:34 AM
Billy probably doesn't drink orange juice - it's poisonous. He knows that because he heard somebody died after drinking a glass of the stuff.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 09, 2021, 10:16:40 AM
Billy probably doesn't drink orange juice - it's poisonous. He knows that because he heard somebody died after drinking a glass of the stuff.

Do you mean those Monsanto orange pips with Bill Gates' mutant Ninja tracking DNA in them?

They're happy to consume meat full of chemicals, antibiotics and other stuff that the civilised world considers unsafe. Not to mention the corn syrup in everything.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 09, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Ignorance breeds fear.
A population taught that science is magic and deprived of the ability to think is always going to be fearful.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
For the few months COVID vaccines came out, in America 578 deaths happened after people took the Moderna vaccine, 578 deaths happened after people take the Pfizer vaccine. 5 deaths happened after taking a vaccine from an unknown manufacture. 1153 deaths so far from all COVID vaccines.

Deaths after the vaccine don't necessarily mean death because of the vaccine. You're conflating two different things to come to an assumption.

People die. Some of them may happen to die after taking the vaccine. Some may die a few days after drinking a glass of orange juice. That doesn't mean the orange juice killed them.

So you're saying this pertains to the COVID vaccine and not the influenza vaccine? You can't have it both ways. Either what you say is true for BOTH vaccines or none of the vaccines. Either way one has a 100 times more chance to die taking the COVID vaccine over an influenza vaccine. Article below checks last years influenza vaccine against the new mRNA COVID vaccines. They have near a 100 times chance of death taking the COVID vaccine which isn't much different than my calculations measuring COVID vaccines against decades worth of influenza vaccines.

"In the 2019-2020 influenza season the CDC reports that 51.8 percent of the U.S. population received a vaccine, which is approximately 170 million people.

VAERS reports that in the calendar year 2019 (not the 2019-2020 influenza season) there were 45 deaths following vaccination. To provide context, in 2018 VAERS reports 46 deaths, and in 2017 it reports 20 deaths.

The 45 deaths in 2019 are occurring at a rate of 0.0000265 percent, when calculated using the number of vaccines given in the 2019-2020 influenza season.

As of Feb. 19, 41,977,401 COVID vaccinations had been given with 966 deaths reported following vaccination, which is approximately a rate of .0023 percent."

https://myvalleynews.com/adverse-incident-reports-show-966-deaths-following-vaccination-for-covid-19/


They're happy to consume meat full of chemicals, antibiotics and other stuff that the civilised world considers unsafe. Not to mention the corn syrup in everything.


Eating is better than having it injected into you. Nobody cares if the steak they eat came from a cow with brain damage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2021, 10:57:27 AM
Ignorance breeds fear.


Ignorance breeds acceptance of whatever the government tells you. You can accept new mRNA technology with a lot of unknowns due to incomplete studies that is 100 times more likely to kill you over traditional vaccines. Educated people will stick with the safer traditional vaccines.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 09, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
Billy probably doesn't drink orange juice - it's poisonous. He knows that because he heard somebody died after drinking a glass of the stuff.

What about the Kool-Aid?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on March 09, 2021, 12:00:11 PM
For the few months COVID vaccines came out, in America 578 deaths happened after people took the Moderna vaccine, 578 deaths happened after people take the Pfizer vaccine. 5 deaths happened after taking a vaccine from an unknown manufacture. 1153 deaths so far from all COVID vaccines.

Deaths after the vaccine don't necessarily mean death because of the vaccine. You're conflating two different things to come to an assumption.

People die. Some of them may happen to die after taking the vaccine. Some may die a few days after drinking a glass of orange juice. That doesn't mean the orange juice killed them.

YEAH! Kind of like the way they counted covid-19 deaths?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 09, 2021, 04:56:54 PM
Billy probably doesn't drink orange juice - it's poisonous. He knows that because he heard somebody died after drinking a glass of the stuff.

Do you mean those Monsanto orange pips with Bill Gates' mutant Ninja tracking DNA in them?

They're happy to consume meat full of chemicals, antibiotics and other stuff that the civilized world considers unsafe. Not to mention the corn syrup in everything.

24,000 people a year die in the USA from traffic accidents and 12,000 from guns. So last year 500,000 died from covid-19. Now you must remember the first people we gave the vaccine to was the elderly and sick. Many were going to die soon anyway.  I bet Billy number are correct but gee guys look who we gave the vaccine to. The fact only 500 people died after getting the vaccine is really low number if you look at who we gave it to and how many people are dying from other stuff including covid-19. I bet Billy is going to stop driving cars and stay away from guns because they are more dangerous then the vaccine.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 09, 2021, 06:54:23 PM
24,000 people a year die in the USA from traffic accidents


There 150 million cars on the road in America everyday and average of 66 people die. Website below said 92 million doses of vaccines were given and 1637 deaths occurring after injection. It's much safer to drive a car than get a COVID injection of an mRNA vaccine. Of course not all deaths after car accidents is the car's fault and shouldn't have been counted. Some people traumatized after the car accident get a heart attack, freeze, drown or bleed out because nobody was around to help them.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/adverse-incident-reports-show-966-deaths-following-vaccination-for-covid-19_3723384.html?utm_source=morningbrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb-2021-03-07


So last year 500,000 died from covid-19.


How many lives have the vaccine saved? They can't tell you that. Young people have almost no chance in dying vaccinated or not and we've protected and isolated old people. That happened before the vaccines came out and it significantly reduced deaths.


I bet Billy is going to stop driving cars and stay away from guns because they are more dangerous then the vaccine.   :laugh:


Nope, but I will continue to provide data so people can be educated. I find it amusing there are people here defending new and unproven technology and encouraging people to inject it into their bodies when safer options are clearly available.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 10, 2021, 03:30:23 AM

They're happy to consume meat full of chemicals, antibiotics and other stuff that the civilised world considers unsafe. . . .
. . . Nobody cares if the steak they eat came from a cow with brain damage.


My guess BillyB is referencing mad cow disease, known as Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). As I recall from thirty years ago the political and social response bordered on mass hysteria on the effects it would have on humanity. It was around this time that I began to become very suspicious of statements made by the media and elected pundits.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 10, 2021, 04:01:17 AM
Sadly, Billykins is wrong - yet again.

Spongiform Encephalopathy (mad cow disease) was dangerous because it DOES infect people who have eaten 'the steak' although, to be accurate it was from eating the connective tissue that hosted the prions that caused harm to humans. In the UK that led to the banning of T-bone steak being sold with the bone in the meat.

We were fortunate and benefited from speedy action from governments. Of course to the data illiterate and thought challenged, the fact that action was taken, saved lives, and prevented catastrophe, is remembered as a fuss over nothing. These people confuse a bad outcome prevented by dint of preventative action and a situation that was of no import requiring no action.

At the same time we should remember that when dealing with an unknown outcome with a catastrophic presentation, it is better to overreact than to under-react. Catastrophe planners need to err on the side of overreaction rather than under reaction. I'll leave it to Billy to think about why that might be.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 10, 2021, 08:41:03 AM
Yea look at the problem where they do not yet have the vaccine. Like Ukraine is nearing lock down again and Honduras. Then say the vaccine does not save lives. Billy the poorer the country the more people in the country will not take the vaccine. It is miss-information like yours that is causing this problem. In Honduras for an example the death rate compared to the USA is like crazy high if any body even knows what it really is because they do not have good medical care or recording keeping. The people are left on cots outside the hospital and family members have to pick them up when it rains. But only 30 per cent of the people will take the vaccine because of miss-information about the vaccine. This miss-information is not harmless because it will give the virus a change to adapt and evade the vaccine. The countries around the world that are poor and do not have good hospital care are the one where the virus will have the opportunity to mutate in to who knows what that will possibly re infect the west.

In the USA we are up from 49 per cent saying they will take the vaccine to nearly 70 saying they will. Hopefully the number will improve as more people get the vaccine. The flu shot is an mRNA vaccine and it has been around a long time. It is jut the mRNA is produced in a different matter but there are still vaccines around that are produced in the old manner. Once again even here it is mostly the poor that are saying they will not take it rather than middle class and above. All of congress and all of there staff have had some type of vaccine as well as most government workers. We are going to start giving the vaccine to more young people.

How does your wife work in the medical field without having a vaccine? Here all the hospital staff had to get vaccinated to be able to work. Much of that happened in late December and the first week in January in our medical center. I ask the people who were giving me my shots when they got theirs and hospital policy. In the beginning of January all the school teachers in this part of Texas got vaccinated.

Soon the likely hood you will not be able to fly if you are not vaccinated. Many countries are now saying must test negative with in two days of flying to get on the plane. Then quarantine if not vaccinated. 

How do you figure cars only have 66 deaths in USA? That is one half of our daily rate. The real rate is 2000 people per month.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/biden-to-announce-deal-for-additional-100-million-j-j-covid-vaccine-doses/ar-BB1erROP?ocid=msedgntp
Notice that many places will soon be no vaccine no job. This is not what the article says but that is what is getting ready to happen. No will be able to say they could not get the vaccine. You are a danger to the public if you do not have it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 10, 2021, 09:03:49 AM
The flu shot is an mRNA vaccine and it has been around a long time. It is jut the mRNA is produced in a different matter but there are still vaccines around that are produced in the old manner. Once again even here it is mostly the poor that are saying they will not take it rather than middle class and above. All of congress and all of there staff have had some type of vaccine as well as most government workers. We are going to start giving the vaccine to more young people.
If mRNA is the only reason you don't want it, you could do the Russian Sputnik-V , it isn't an mRNA vaccin but a vector-vaccin. Much different.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 10, 2021, 09:33:33 AM
Sadly, Billykins is wrong - yet again.

Spongiform Encephalopathy (mad cow disease) was dangerous because it DOES infect people who have eaten 'the steak' although, to be accurate it was from eating the connective tissue that hosted the prions that caused harm to humans. In the UK that led to the banning of T-bone steak being sold with the bone in the meat.


Sadly you are wrong again. I wasn't talking about mad cow disease. Brain damage can be anything. It could mean a cow got stupider. It'll still get slaughtered for meat.


The flu shot is an mRNA vaccine and it has been around a long time. It is jut the mRNA is produced in a different matter but there are still vaccines around that are produced in the old manner. Once again even here it is mostly the poor that are saying they will not take it rather than middle class and above. All of congress and all of there staff have had some type of vaccine as well as most government workers. We are going to start giving the vaccine to more young people.
If mRNA is the only reason you don't want it, you could do the Russian Sputnik-V , it isn't an mRNA vaccin but a vector-vaccin. Much different.


There is no mRNA flu shot in existence. mRNA technology was studied for decades. There were attempts to make a flu vaccine with mRNA technology but NONE have been approved for use. After decades of study, the first MRNA vaccines approved for use are made by Moderna and Pfizer and that was because they got emergency approval due to COVID but if you read their documents and the FDA's documents, there are certain studies that have not concluded on mRNA vaccines. They admit that but the only education the public is getting from the government, big pharma, and the media is that the vaccines are good to go. Last I read, WHO has yet to approve an mRNA vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 11, 2021, 11:46:56 PM

At least 7 European nations suspend the AstraZeneca vaccine to investigate reports of blood clots resulting in death.

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-several-european-countries-halt-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccine/a-56835406

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210311-covid-19-denmark-pauses-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-over-blood-clot-fears
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 12, 2021, 03:36:00 PM

mRNA is a natural occurring part of the virus. When we give a shot with part of the dead virus it is a shot of mRNA.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 12, 2021, 05:21:52 PM

mRNA is a natural occurring part of the virus. When we give a shot with part of the dead virus it is a shot of mRNA.

Yes and No

Lets go a back a bit in time. You were a teenager in the early 70's sailing on Galveston Bay in Lighting's.

New class legal boats appeared, but they were built from fiberglass instead of wood. They often were as fast as the woodies, were pretty but needed less maintenance. They won some races and more people bought these 'plastic fantastics'.

Were new boats perfect, NO, many had a too heavy gelcoat, others too much core material. With time the builders go it correct.

The vaccines being administered are a massive trial and error process.

Part of this media frenzy. But I suspect there is a big push by the drug manufactures to seize the moment (and profit). Governments are being reactive and public are the lemmings
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 12, 2021, 06:25:49 PM
Sadly, Billykins is wrong - yet again.

Spongiform Encephalopathy (mad cow disease) was dangerous because it DOES infect people who have eaten 'the steak' although, to be accurate it was from eating the connective tissue that hosted the prions that caused harm to humans. In the UK that led to the banning of T-bone steak being sold with the bone in the meat.


Sadly you are wrong again. I wasn't talking about mad cow disease. Brain damage can be anything. It could mean a cow got stupider. It'll still get slaughtered for meat.


Sorry, I assumed that you were speaking about CJD & BSE. Curious what is your analogy about cows becoming more stupid about? Please explain.

Without doubt I have often thought some posters are/were brain damaged, though I prefer to consider common sense deprived. Where are you on the spectrum? 

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2021, 07:53:08 PM
Curious what is your analogy about cows becoming more stupid about? Please explain.


Cows are injected with antibiotics, hormones, and vaccines that pass the safety tests if it were to be given to humans. If anything injected into a cow damaged it's brain, we wouldn't care. We wouldn't care if the cow got dumber or it got cancer 10 years after the injection because we'd most likely eat it before that happened. We should pay strict attention to what is injected into our bodies.


Here's a different angle why vaccines may be dangerous. Geert Vanden Bossche, PhD, DVM who is an expert in vaccines and once worked as the senior project manager for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is asking WHO to halt all vaccinations and re-evaluate the strategy to defeat COVID. He says we could be making a major blunder on humanity. The vaccines aren't good enough to stop the virus from mutating and it is currently mutating in ways that make it immune to vaccines.

Here's a 2 minute video

http://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/m33li0/geert_vanden_bossche_phd_dvm_urgent_call_to_who/

Here's a statement

http://twitter.com/raisoncommune/status/1367027590310068229

His credentials

http://be.linkedin.com/in/geertvandenbossche

http://www.linkedin.com/in/geert-vanden-bossche-77122913


I have a cousin who has a PhD in Biology and she is far left. She always tells me to listen to her in debates and to follow the science. I drive her crazy when I show her scientists that contradict what she believes in. I remind her science isn't perfect and scientists are humans with flaws. Maybe Geert Vanden Bossche is right or maybe he's wrong but so far the COVID mutations have shown to be more resistant to the newly developed vaccines which is making his theory sound legit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 12, 2021, 09:10:57 PM
The more copies of the Virus that exist the faster it will mutate. If one of the mutations are immune to the vaccine that version will grow while other mutations will die out. So we will have to keep developing new vaccines for new version until we reduce it to the point there is not enough copies left for it to mutate. This is true if there is not vaccine. The virus will mutate until it can re-infect the same people as long as there is a enough copies of the virus to be able to do so. In 1918 the virus mutated and came in three waves. There is no way to predict how many mutations this virus will produce that will be different enough to re infect the same people or avoid the vaccine.  There is a real possibly covid-19 maybe with us permanently and we will need a new vaccine every year for this year's version of the virus. At this point I do not believe any body knows how long this virus will be with us.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 12, 2021, 11:43:44 PM
If one of the mutations are immune to the vaccine that version will grow while other mutations will die out. So we will have to keep developing new vaccines for new version until we reduce it to the point there is not enough copies left for it to mutate.
 

Throwing a bunch of vaccines on the problem may be causing the problem as the expert said in my post. With more people being vaccinated, the virus gets to see the defense more often and learn how to beat it. The expert also said our own immune system may get beat. The expert believes the mass vaccination program will be a colossal blunder on humanity. We may lose the ability to defend against the virus if it learns to beat our natural immunity and vaccines. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's wrong. What is going on now with a mass vaccination worldwide in a short time has never been done before. Here's his statement again.

https://twitter.com/raisoncommune/status/1367027590310068229
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 13, 2021, 01:29:25 AM
Billy, stop making up more stories. It is not a good look when you are surrounded by people you'd like to emulate.

Right now, you're so tied up in knots that you're contradicting yourself even within a single post.

Take advice from myself and others about how to improve yourself. I promise you that a better-informed, hardworking, Billykins will be a happier Billykins than the lazy, ill-informed, 'special person' that you present as today.

Please, Billy, learn something. It is not our responsibility to try to teach you but it is unlikely that your outbursts will not be commented upon when you spout crap.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on March 13, 2021, 07:28:34 AM

mRNA is a natural occurring part of the virus. When we give a shot with part of the dead virus it is a shot of mRNA.

The more copies of the Virus that exist the faster it will mutate. If one of the mutations are immune to the vaccine that version will grow while other mutations will die out. So we will have to keep developing new vaccines for new version until we reduce it to the point there is not enough copies left for it to mutate. This is true if there is not vaccine. The virus will mutate until it can re-infect the same people as long as there is a enough copies of the virus to be able to do so. In 1918 the virus mutated and came in three waves. There is no way to predict how many mutations this virus will produce that will be different enough to re infect the same people or avoid the vaccine.  There is a real possibly covid-19 maybe with us permanently and we will need a new vaccine every year for this year's version of the virus. At this point I do not believe any body knows how long this virus will be with us.

 

Tex, statements like these frame you as a classic text book case of a useful idiot. There is nothing natural (at all) about mRNA. The ingredients of it is nothing that belongs inside your body. Do you know how these vaccines work? The mRNA vaccine does not even qualify to be classified as a vaccine. It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled so I'll spell it out for you "you've been fooled' Turn off CNN, Fox or whatever fake news media it is that you are following. Do the work and research it for yourself. Quit parroting.

You choose to take the injections, power and prayer to you. I hope it doesn't prove to be a mistake for you. It's too bad we just simply do not know yet what the results of those injections will be, yet. Short term isn't looking so good.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 13, 2021, 10:22:01 AM
It seems the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was developed in Leiden by Janssens a division of Crucell which is 'owned' by J & J.

 :NETH:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on March 13, 2021, 10:31:00 AM

mRNA is a natural occurring part of the virus. When we give a shot with part of the dead virus it is a shot of mRNA.

The more copies of the Virus that exist the faster it will mutate. If one of the mutations are immune to the vaccine that version will grow while other mutations will die out. So we will have to keep developing new vaccines for new version until we reduce it to the point there is not enough copies left for it to mutate. This is true if there is not vaccine. The virus will mutate until it can re-infect the same people as long as there is a enough copies of the virus to be able to do so. In 1918 the virus mutated and came in three waves. There is no way to predict how many mutations this virus will produce that will be different enough to re infect the same people or avoid the vaccine.  There is a real possibly covid-19 maybe with us permanently and we will need a new vaccine every year for this year's version of the virus. At this point I do not believe any body knows how long this virus will be with us.

 

Tex, statements like these frame you as a classic text book case of a useful idiot. There is nothing natural (at all) about mRNA. The ingredients of it is nothing that belongs inside your body. Do you know how these vaccines work? The mRNA vaccine does not even qualify to be classified as a vaccine. It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled so I'll spell it out for you "you've been fooled' Turn off CNN, Fox or whatever fake news media it is that you are following. Do the work and research it for yourself. Quit parroting.

You choose to take the injections, power and prayer to you. I hope it doesn't prove to be a mistake for you. It's too bad we just simply do not know yet what the results of those injections will be, yet. Short term isn't looking so good.

I have already had vaccine so have most of my friends. No one is having a problem. I got the first dose in January and the second dose in early February. I believe that 65 per cent of the US population over 65 years old has gotten at least the first dose now. As far as I know no large number of people have been dying off. Hospital are not full of people with side effects or anything like that. Nearly 100 million doses have been given out in the USA alone. Three week wait time to get a shot in most places and most people want the shot.  So just what are you guys talking about?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/more-than-100-million-covid-19-vaccines-administered-in-u-s/ar-BB1ewRpH?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 13, 2021, 06:28:35 PM
It seems the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was developed in Leiden by Janssens a division of Crucell which is 'owned' by J & J.

 :NETH:

One of the biggest advantages of J&J vaccin: You need only 1 shot instead of the usual 2.
One of the biggest disadvantages of J&J vaccin: It is only 67% effective instead of the 90% the other vaccins boast.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2021, 01:09:11 AM
Billy, stop making up more stories. It is not a good look when you are surrounded by people you'd like to emulate.

Right now, you're so tied up in knots that you're contradicting yourself even within a single post.

Take advice from myself and others about how to improve yourself. I promise you that a better-informed, hardworking, Billykins will be a happier Billykins than the lazy, ill-informed, 'special person' that you present as today.

Please, Billy, learn something. It is not our responsibility to try to teach you but it is unlikely that your outbursts will not be commented upon when you spout crap.

An insult with a touch of advice. You apply this on everybody you feel threaten by. I guess you think it works so you've continued to use this strategy since I've known you on these forums starting in 2006. Lol. You're definitely a unique guy Andrew. I hope you find a unique girl in your life. You deserve it.


 Dr. Carrie Madej asks "What happens when your body's own cells are programmed to keep making the protein of an invader, nonstop, forever and ever, with no programmed end date?

She also asks "What happens when your immune system is in perpetual overdrive, tricked into believing there's a pathogen that just never goes away?"

Anybody have a good answer?

Dr Geert Venden Bossche said we could be making a colossal blunder on humanity. He thinks the virus can learn to defeat our natural immunity and vaccines with the vaccination program we're currently implementing. Are we going to continue to write new programs for our immune system for new viruses without the ability to end the old program?

https://gab.com/klrowe29/posts/105877614488097573
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 14, 2021, 01:33:20 PM
"What happens when your body's own cells are programmed to keep making the protein of an invader, nonstop, forever and ever, with no programmed end date?

She also asks "What happens when your immune system is in perpetual overdrive, tricked into believing there's a pathogen that just never goes away?"

That isn't how vaccines work.  (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 14, 2021, 03:42:20 PM
"What happens when your body's own cells are programmed to keep making the protein of an invader, nonstop, forever and ever, with no programmed end date?

She also asks "What happens when your immune system is in perpetual overdrive, tricked into believing there's a pathogen that just never goes away?"

That isn't how vaccines work.  (:)

mRNA vaccines aren't a vaccine. It's a medicine that gives instructions to our cells telling our cells what to do. So one of the doctor's questions was wondering what happens if there is no programmed end date. Are our cells going to act like they want to fight COVID forever, even if COVID mutates in a manner to defeat our immune system?

https://www.modernatx.com/mrna-technology/science-and-fundamentals-mrna-technology
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on March 19, 2021, 06:09:40 PM
Shocking facts about Covid19 experimental "vaccines" and many side effects:

PDF:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/99d35b02-a5cb-41e6-ad80-a070f8a5ee17/WhitePaper_ExperimentalVaccinesCovid-19_Feb23.pdf

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 17, 2021, 07:52:28 PM

mRNA is a natural occurring part of the virus. When we give a shot with part of the dead virus it is a shot of mRNA.

The more copies of the Virus that exist the faster it will mutate. If one of the mutations are immune to the vaccine that version will grow while other mutations will die out. So we will have to keep developing new vaccines for new version until we reduce it to the point there is not enough copies left for it to mutate. This is true if there is not vaccine. The virus will mutate until it can re-infect the same people as long as there is a enough copies of the virus to be able to do so. In 1918 the virus mutated and came in three waves. There is no way to predict how many mutations this virus will produce that will be different enough to re infect the same people or avoid the vaccine.  There is a real possibly covid-19 maybe with us permanently and we will need a new vaccine every year for this year's version of the virus. At this point I do not believe any body knows how long this virus will be with us.

 

Tex, statements like these frame you as a classic text book case of a useful idiot. There is nothing natural (at all) about mRNA. The ingredients of it is nothing that belongs inside your body. Do you know how these vaccines work? The mRNA vaccine does not even qualify to be classified as a vaccine. It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled so I'll spell it out for you "you've been fooled' Turn off CNN, Fox or whatever fake news media it is that you are following. Do the work and research it for yourself. Quit parroting.

You choose to take the injections, power and prayer to you. I hope it doesn't prove to be a mistake for you. It's too bad we just simply do not know yet what the results of those injections will be, yet. Short term isn't looking so good.

Clearly the number one side effect is dementia.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 17, 2021, 08:42:30 PM
Shocking facts about Covid19 experimental "vaccines" and many side effects:

PDF:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/99d35b02-a5cb-41e6-ad80-a070f8a5ee17/WhitePaper_ExperimentalVaccinesCovid-19_Feb23.pdf


Great video Cufflinks, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Firsthere on April 24, 2021, 12:13:53 PM
The ONLY thing Borischas got right..ordering vaccines before the rush..

Shame so many died before he listened to science

You'll be pleased to hear Moe B has been done twice and is still healthy)

Even missus has been done..

Keep safe
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 24, 2021, 12:31:47 PM
Give it a couple of months, Moe B. That's all it took for Prince Philip to kick the bucket.  :laugh:

And it would be a real bummer if a nasty Troll like you had a similar outcome.

Here's what a scientist has to say about it.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-former-pfizer-vp-your-government-is-lying-to-you-in-a-way-that-could-lead-to-your-death
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Firsthere on April 25, 2021, 01:23:19 AM
Give it a couple of months, Moe B. That's all it took for Prince Philip to kick the bucket.  :laugh:

And it would be a real bummer if a nasty Troll like you had a similar outcome.

Here's what a scientist has to say about it.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-former-pfizer-vp-your-government-is-lying-to-you-in-a-way-that-could-lead-to-your-death


Sadly, for you,

My first vaccine was nearly FOUR months ago and ....

Your 'science' is looking increasingly bogus give  over 33 million 'Guinea pigs ' in the UK will be laughing their arses off at you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 26, 2021, 08:33:40 AM
For those who prefer to think for themselves and to listen to alternative media, famous scientist Judy Mikovits will be on a live podcast today at Jerm warfare.


https://jermwarfare.com/live


https://jermwarfare.com/blog/dr-judy-mikovits


Book still available on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Plague-Corruption-Restoring-Promise-Science/dp/1510752242/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19EGYC83EF9UX&dchild=1&keywords=judy%20mikovits&linkCode=sl2&linkId=ecb8cb34d0aa07bc3d496daff0cddff4&qid=1606762469&s=books&sprefix=JUDY%20MIKO%2Cstripbooks%2C234&sr=1-1&tag=enotes.co-20
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 26, 2021, 08:08:15 PM

Although vaccines are rolling out in full speed and the weather is warmer, Current daily infections worldwide has doubled compared to February and daily deaths increased too.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 27, 2021, 10:47:02 AM

Long term safety studies on vaccines still need more time to conclude but there will always be a steady stream of reports coming out that will put experimental vaccines in a bad light.


Thousands of women report their menstrual cycle is affected by the vaccines.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/researchers-looking-into-link-between-covid-vaccine-and-menstruation/2495593/


Report says mRNA vaccines can trigger neurological diseases.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/report-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines-trigger-alzheimers-als-neurological-d

https://www.hennessysview.com/images/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf


After 40 years of research, we don't have a vaccine for the virus that causes HIV/AIDS. We don't have a vaccine for the common cold. No cure for cancer. All of a sudden we have a new virus show up, vaccines are created in a few months, it will be effective for only a few months, and they want everybody in the world to inject something into their bodies that is not approved for humans and get never ending booster shots.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 28, 2021, 12:59:52 PM
Are governments and corporations going to be requiring a Vaccine passport? This is actually already happening in some countries. As one can imagine Cruise ships and Airlines might be keen on requiring them.

I found this fascinating video featuring celebrity Russel Brand.

         
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 28, 2021, 09:33:23 PM



If one doesn't want to take the vaccine now, they can take it next year. Moderna CEO said they are making a billion doses this year and 1.4 billion next year.

Or one can allow their own natural immunity to handle the virus. One thing not talked about is we've come a long way in therapeutics. If ones immunity system struggles to beat the virus, there are medicines to help.

Looking at Moderna's pipeline of vaccines again, I see they have a few for cancer stuck in phases 1 and 2 trials. If anything must be rushed, why not rush those vaccines? Much more people dying from cancer than COVID right now. 1 out of every 6 deaths in the world is due to cancer. When a person has cancer, it destroys their organs and their quality of life diminishes even if they survive cancer.

https://ourworldindata.org/cancer#:~:text=Almost%20ten%20million%20people%20die,cause%20of%20every%20sixth%20death.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 29, 2021, 02:20:46 AM
Are governments and corporations going to be requiring a Vaccine passport? This is actually already happening in some countries. As one can imagine Cruise ships and Airlines might be keen on requiring them.

As I recall Senator R. Paul, pushed back on this concept in early February
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 29, 2021, 07:15:48 AM
Brazil bans Russian covid-19 vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/scientists-back-brazil-s-decision-to-ban-russian-covid-vaccine/ar-BB1gaG0f?ocid=msedgdhp

New pill form Pfizer covid-19 vaccine this year?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-will-apparently-have-an-at-home-pill-to-treat-covid-19-with-in-2021/ar-BB1gbaB7?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 29, 2021, 10:48:45 AM
Are governments and corporations going to be requiring a Vaccine passport? This is actually already happening in some countries. As one can imagine Cruise ships and Airlines might be keen on requiring them.

As I recall Senator R. Paul, pushed back on this concept in early February

Let's see what actually happens in the next 6-12 months.

Did you watch the video featuring Russel Brand? A fascinating video and he asks excellent questions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 29, 2021, 01:00:14 PM
Scientists and others who say without equivocation, No Jab for me!

https://nojabforme.info
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on April 29, 2021, 01:14:42 PM
Are governments and corporations going to be requiring a Vaccine passport? This is actually already happening in some countries. As one can imagine Cruise ships and Airlines might be keen on requiring them.

As I recall Senator R. Paul, pushed back on this concept in early February

https://edcdeveloper.wordpress.com/2021/04/09/fascism-vaccine-passports/  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on April 29, 2021, 04:52:17 PM
Are governments and corporations going to be requiring a Vaccine passport? This is actually already happening in some countries. As one can imagine Cruise ships and Airlines might be keen on requiring them.

As I recall Senator R. Paul, pushed back on this concept in early February

https://edcdeveloper.wordpress.com/2021/04/09/fascism-vaccine-passports/  :laugh: :laugh:

It was noted up thread that in the middle of the 20th century there was a 'Carte Jaune' that was mandatory for International travel. What I sense is this is concept is trying to be introduced on a massive national scale.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 29, 2021, 08:16:10 PM



If one doesn't want to take the vaccine now, they can take it next year. Moderna CEO said they are making a billion doses this year and 1.4 billion next year.

Or one can allow their own natural immunity to handle the virus. One thing not talked about is we've come a long way in therapeutics. If ones immunity system struggles to beat the virus, there are medicines to help.

Looking at Moderna's pipeline of vaccines again, I see they have a few for cancer stuck in phases 1 and 2 trials. If anything must be rushed, why not rush those vaccines? Much more people dying from cancer than COVID right now. 1 out of every 6 deaths in the world is due to cancer. When a person has cancer, it destroys their organs and their quality of life diminishes even if they survive cancer.

https://ourworldindata.org/cancer#:~:text=Almost%20ten%20million%20people%20die,cause%20of%20every%20sixth%20death.

The vaccine doe not kill the virus it stimulate your immune system to kill the virus faster. People here mistake the vaccine for an antibiotic which kills the pathogen an does nothing to improve the immune system. 

Moderna can not get funding for those vaccine. Ask the government and other drugs companies who would help fund it why not.   

The death rate in India is very bad now. I am not sure that any one type of cancer is as deadly as covid-19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 29, 2021, 11:14:13 PM

To be specific mRNA vaccines aren't really vaccines but a medicine that tells your body how to behave. It can tell your body to go after a specific virus or reverse the process of cancer. It's like a computer program for your body. There's great potential for mRNA medicine. It can also be a tool used by evil people. mRNA can be programmed to block your immune system and let pathogens ravage your body or it can be programmed to give you organ failure 9 months from now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 30, 2021, 12:16:36 AM

CDC put out a new commercial. A new side effect been discovered that affects only males. For the males here that had the vaccine, has your sex life been affected for better or worse?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 30, 2021, 09:32:26 PM



Biden placed travel bans on dozens of countries with the latest being India. Biden acts because he cares. When Trump did travel bans last year, he did it because he was racist and never listens to medical experts and WHO who say travel bans don't work.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-biden-set-ban-most-travel-us-india-limit-covid-19-spread-2021-04-30/


Couple of interesting sites. First site shows countries with highest amount of population vaccinated. USA #3. Remember when Trump was criticized for hogging up the vaccine rights and attempting to purchase foreign companies that manufacture vaccines? Second site shows all nations data pertaining to vaccination. FSU nations doing poorly. China doesn't report but then again, looking at worldometers, nations with a few hundred thousand people have more COVID issues than China, a nation of 1.4 billion people.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/vaccination-rollout-and-access/


Report says Pfizer vaccine may cause neurological problems and diabetes.

https://nationalfile.com/report-pfizer-vaccine-confirmed-to-cause-neurodegenerative-diseases/

https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid19-rna-based-vaccines-and-the-risk-of-prion-disease-1503.pdf


Someone found this 60 Minutes hosted by Mike Wallace oldie. 1976 America had a swine flu problem and the government rushed vaccines. Thousands of people got neurological diseases eroding public confidence in vaccines.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 30, 2021, 09:39:57 PM

To be specific mRNA vaccines aren't really vaccines but a medicine that tells your body how to behave. It can tell your body to go after a specific virus or reverse the process of cancer. It's like a computer program for your body. There's great potential for mRNA medicine. It can also be a tool used by evil people. mRNA can be programmed to block your immune system and let pathogens ravage your body or it can be programmed to give you organ failure 9 months from now.

No vaccine is a medicine.  mRNA Vaccines tell the immune systems to attack certain sequence of mRNA just like any vaccine. The only different in mRNA vaccine and old style vaccines is the way the mRNA is produced. The old vaccines used the mRNA that is produced naturally and the mRNA vaccines make it in  lab. 

Any vaccine could be modified to kill people produced in any method of production of the vaccine.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on April 30, 2021, 10:55:36 PM
No vaccine is a medicine.


mRNA is a medicine. Just because it can stop viruses like a vaccine and people call it a vaccine for simplicity, the manufactures of mRNA call it a medicine.

https://www.modernatx.com/mrna-technology/science-and-fundamentals-mrna-technology


Any vaccine could be modified to kill people produced in any method of production of the vaccine.


We have more effective biological and chemical weapons that can kill people instantly. We don't need a poisonous vaccine to do that. What we don't have, until now, is technology that can program your own body to kill itself, quickly or slowly over years. A nation may not know they are under biological attack for years until it's too late. I'm sure sinister people could figure an effective sinister use of mRNA technology better than I.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 01, 2021, 01:42:42 PM
Billy you do not need mRNA to do that. Just take any body part's DNA and put it into the vaccine and the body will destroy that part. Depending what part you pick it will vary how long the person would survive.

What you do not take in account is this disease is going to be with us for a long time. Maybe forever. People will catch it over and over again leaving them weaker each time. Some people have caught it again in as little as three months but most people are not able to catch it again that quickly. Still people will catch this many times causing them to get sick repeatedly much like the flu. It is developing different variants some which are more deadly. This disease will likely kill off a large number of people over the next twenty years. Yes if someone made a vaccine design to kill people it would kill a lot of people if it would be aloud to go main stream.  But how is a pharmaceutical company going to make money off of dead people. 

An AI military is more likely to go hay wire and kill off the entire world population. Just think they could shoot off one half of the US or Russian nukes and pretty much the whole world be dead in two months. It would not matter where they landed. But nearly all the AI machines would all survive just now they would not have to bother with us humans. No one knows how many weapons the Chinese have but they are like to have about as many though their "official" number is much lower. I wonder how long it will be before there is a fourth country who can rid the world of humans in the name of peace?  India, North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, Japan are a few contenders.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 03, 2021, 11:00:12 PM

Well, more people are going to distrust everything the government says about the virus. When Biden is on tv with nobody around, he'll wear a mask. When he's walking outside, he'll wear two masks. When he's indoors with 96 yo Jimmy Carter and his 93 yo wife, Biden doesn't practice social distancing or wear a mask. Reminds me of 80+ yo Pelosi and Feinstein walking through airports without a mask and John Kerry sitting in an airplane without a mask. This photo is going viral.

https://twitter.com/CarterCenter/status/1389400596004970501
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 04, 2021, 11:02:45 PM

Denmark bans the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.

https://www.businessinsider.com/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-side-effects-denmark-bans-blood-clots-2021-5
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2021, 10:52:45 AM


The country with the most fully vaccinated people at over 62% has seen a surge in cases. A third of the cases are from people who are fully vaccinated. Seems like it's going to be harder to achieve herd immunity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56992121

https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/world-s-most-vaccinated-nation-reintroduces-curbs-as-cases-surge
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 07, 2021, 08:42:05 AM
This gave me a bit of a fright!  :eeekk:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/grandmothers-horrifying-injuries-after-astra-zeneca-vaccine-133211907.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 08, 2021, 12:39:47 PM
James Hetfield of Metallica is not sold on vaccines. That's it, I like Metallica so no vaccine for me.  :laugh:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/metallica-james-hetfield-little-skeptical-164920070.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 08, 2021, 01:03:29 PM
I have heard of several people who died after a covid-19 vaccination. Even worse a man I know suffered erectile disfunction afterward. It must be the vaccine that caused those deaths and terrible impotence!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 08, 2021, 08:37:03 PM
I am wondering what is wrong with Kennedy's voice. Other than that this looks interesting.

           
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 08, 2021, 09:00:07 PM
I have heard of several people who died after a covid-19 vaccination. Even worse a man I know suffered erectile disfunction afterward. It must be the vaccine that caused those deaths and terrible impotence!

For some of society, terrible impotence may not be such a bad result of the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 08, 2021, 09:11:34 PM

Someone found this 60 Minutes hosted by Mike Wallace oldie. 1976 America had a swine flu problem and the government rushed vaccines. Thousands of people got neurological diseases eroding public confidence in vaccines.


This video is well worth watching, interesting and troubling for a number of reasons. The viewers can form there own opinions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 09, 2021, 06:58:15 AM
I have heard of several people who died after a covid-19 vaccination. Even worse a man I know suffered erectile disfunction afterward. It must be the vaccine that caused those deaths and terrible impotence!

For some of society, terrible impotence may not be such a bad result of the vaccine.

That might be true, however I was failing to make a point.

Millions of people have had a vaccination. After having a vaccination some people will die, but they'd have died anyway. Some people will not be able to get a hardon, but that'd have happened anyway.

People are being misled and are confusing themselves by imagining that a correlation equals causation.

At the same time people, including those in governments are getting confused by the effect of small numbers. So they are making choices based upon very small numbers while forgetting about the very large numbers. That's human, but it is still faulty thinking.

Fortunately, in the UK, the government has made a sensible choice to optimise vaccine usage for minimisation of after effects rather than for vaccine effectiveness. However that choice only exists due to the very high proportion of the population who have already been vaccinated. That's not an option in most of the world.

In most of the world, including much of Europe, it is necessary to optimise for effectiveness. However, poor choices made in the EU over the past few months has made optimisation for either case very hard.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 11, 2021, 02:45:05 PM

Since the Obama administration, Fauci been giving millions to study bat coronaviruses with the Wuhan lab benefitting. We may have funded the creation of the coronavirus that is in our bodies and hurting our economy.

http://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1392176879826870274
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 12, 2021, 12:33:29 PM
You're being played

Former KGB agent of propaganda, Yuri Bezmenov, warned of this decades ago in a 1984 interview. The Soviets were masters at brainwashing masses of people. He said that, through influencing the media, the government was able to change public perceptions within eight weeks, through a series of ideological subversion tricks, being

demoralisation;
destabilisation;
crisis; and
normalisation.
Which is exactly what has happened in most countries over the last 60 weeks. Everywhere you go, you will see

signs instructing you to stand far away from other people, and to treat them as biohazards;
billboards stating that masks protect you from a virus;
airport PA systems constantly scaring you with messages about "staying safe";
repetitive headlines about "new SARS-CoV-2 variants" and make it sound even scarier by throwing in "mutant"; and
non-stop messaging about the importance of being vaccinated with an experimental gene therapy that has absolutely no long-term human safety trials (because the animal safety trials have been killing the animals since the 1990s.
Millions upon millions of otherwise normal people have been demoralised (wearing a mask all the time, and being afraid of healthy people, as an example) and destabilised (forced into unemployment, and fearing the law if they disobey mask mandates, as an example), as Bezmenov predicted, making it easy to indoctrinate the same people with the next two stages: crisis and normalisation.

The political and technocratic elite want us to "rebuild" and "reset" the world's economies that have been destroyed by this "pandemic". This is neatly combined with the "climate crisis" or, as they now are attempting to label it, the "climate emergency".

source: Jermwarfare blog
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 12, 2021, 12:52:22 PM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 12, 2021, 10:35:46 PM

Fascinating video, thanks Danchik.

Along that line Tucker Carlson asks, where is the criminal investigation into Fauci?

Quote

CHUCK TODD, NBC: But is the mask going to be something we have with us in a seasonal aspect?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: You know, that’s quite possible. I think people have gotten used to the fact that wearing masks, clearly, if you look at the data, diminishes respiratory diseases…So it is conceivable that as we go on a year or two or more from now, that during certain seasonal periods when you have respiratory-borne viruses like the flu, people might actually elect to wear masks to diminish the likelihood that you’ll be spreading these respiratory-borne diseases.

“A year or two or more from now.” In other words, never — you’re never taking off the mask. Get ready for a lifetime of filthy wet cotton covering your mouth, reduced oxygen flow to your brain, and a world where every stranger looks the same because no one has a face. When Kamala Harris and her husband kissed the other day while wearing masks, they were giving you a preview of your daughter’s wedding. In a masked world, human beings never really touch each other. Is that public health? No, it’s not public health. It’s a kind of punishment. Tony Fauci is punishing the country — you, us, everyone. The question is: why is he doing that? Maybe he liked it, that’s possible. But you’ve got to think that at least part of Fauci’s authoritarian germ hysterical is a cover for something else. Could it be that Tony Fauci is trying to divert attention from himself and his own role in the COVID-19 pandemic? "


https://newspunch.com/tucker-carlson-where-is-the-criminal-investigation-into-anthony-fauci/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 12, 2021, 10:58:53 PM
An excellent article by an honest and thorough science writer.

Quote


"It cannot yet be stated that Dr. Shi did or did not generate SARS2 in her lab because her records have been sealed, but it seems she was certainly on the right track to have done so. “It is clear that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was systematically constructing novel chimeric coronaviruses and was assessing their ability to infect human cells and human-ACE2-expressing mice,” says Richard H. Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University and leading expert on biosafety.
“It is also clear,” Dr. Ebright said, “that, depending on the constant genomic contexts chosen for analysis, this work could have produced SARS-CoV-2 or a proximal progenitor of SARS-CoV-2.” “Genomic context” refers to the particular viral backbone used as the testbed for the spike protein.
The lab escape scenario for the origin of the SARS2 virus, as should by now be evident, is not mere hand-waving in the direction of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. It is a detailed proposal, based on the specific project being funded there by the NIAID.
Even if the grant required the work plan described above, how can we be sure that the plan was in fact carried out? For that we can rely on the word of Dr. Daszak, who has been much protesting for the last 15 months that lab escape was a ludicrous conspiracy theory invented by China-bashers."



https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 12, 2021, 11:59:40 PM
Fauci spars with Dr. Rand Paul who isn't buying his denials.


         
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2021, 08:55:37 PM
Dr. Yeadon, ex VP of Pfizer, felt compelled to make a video about the dangers of the experimental vaccines, the vaccine passports to control us, and the lies told by our governments to get us to comply with their programs.

About 40% into the video, he says antibodies don't play a major role in defeating viruses and the government is lying to us when they say it does. T cells are what is important. 17 years after SARS, they took the blood of those who were infected to see if SARS could infect them again. SARS could not. They recently tried to see if SARS-COV2 which is 80% similar to SARS could infect those people who previously had SARS and those people were immune to SARS-COV2. This is the man that says the vaccination program could lead to depopulation if it makes our immune system dysfunctional. He said for the most part, our bodies will handle the virus and we'll be able to achieve immunity naturally. He also said that there's no reason for a booster shot because variants are only at a max .3% different than the original virus and more unproven vaccines can harm us.

He's against the vaccine passport that can limit where you go. 20 years from now you may not be able to go into a grocery store or allowed to go to your job if you miss your appointment to get a booster shot of whatever they say you need it for. The app on your phone will alert you the appropriate time you need to show up for your shot. Eventually it can be used by sinister people to easily execute the masses.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/05/15/planet-lockdown.aspx?cid_medium=sms&cid=share


Back in April 2018, Q warned of election rigging, mass extermination events that will decrease population threat level, and vaccines.

https://qalerts.app/?n=1010
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 17, 2021, 06:03:08 AM
He's against the vaccine passport that can limit where you go. 20 years from now you may not be able to go into a grocery store or allowed to go to your job if you miss your appointment to get a booster shot of whatever they say you need it for. The app on your phone will alert you the appropriate time you need to show up for your shot. Eventually it can be used by sinister people to easily execute the masses.

I heard a funny tale today about a relative of Wifeys in Moscow. She had a kidney stone or something and was told to go to the hospital. The hospital refused treatment because she had not had her jab.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 17, 2021, 06:17:48 AM
Here's a tale about masks.

Boris decreed that as of today, kids can ditch the masks in schools.

My daughters school has other ideas. They sent a diktat out on Friday to tell the kids masks will stay for the foreseeable future. And this was on advice from the local health authority. I doubted this so investigated. And they were wrong. I fired off a few emails to the teachers, each of whom had changed the words slightly along the way. What started out as one thing ended up at another. Here's an excerpt from my last mail:

Quote
.............. I'd like to set out the detail as I see it, and the chronology:

*    The Public Health (X) email refers to "several areas in the Northwest" - these are known to be Bury, Bolton, Blackburn and Darwen. I've yet to see (X) in any of those lists as an area of concern.
*    The Public Health (X) email says "you may want to promote the continued use of face coverings". "May want to" being the phrase here, that is clearly optional.
*    The email from Mr (X) translates that to "we will ask all senior school pupils to continue wearing masks". The word "ask" suggests its optional again, but that wasn't made clear.
*    The advice to pupils from Mr (X) translated the foregoing "you may want to" and "we will ask" into must.

It is my view that the school guidance should have been along the lines of "we'd like you to continue to wear a mask, but its now optional as you will all know from government guidance". That would seem sensible, factual and in line with the advice you have received. Especially in light of there being no cases in the school for weeks as the email from Mr (X) confirms.

So what I am seeing here is the school taking a loose recommendation and translating it into a rule for no apparent reason. In defiance of government guidelines.

I am aware that some staff in the school even wear two masks (!) and some teachers even wear them outdoors. If this paranoid culture is the norm, and mask use is now mandated in the absence of risk, you are setting the scene for mask wearing for the foreseeable future or permanently. Mask use shouldn't be normalised this way. Nor should it be enforced against government guidelines. There will always be variants of concern and other types of infections. Possibly for many years to come.

Most schools are dumping masks today across the country in line with government guidance. Yet (X) wants to keep them because some people over in Bolton and Darwen might be poorly and there is no virus in the school. That makes no sense.

That's how I see it.

I had the head on the phone first thing this morning explaining his reasoning. Which was nonsense. So I've forwarded it onto a few folks in the media with a suggested headline "Manchester School Defies Government" or some such. We'll see if one of them bites.

I believe the BS has to be challenged. I bet they'll drop the requirement within a week.  :whist11:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2021, 11:13:01 AM

One local community in the US got rid of their whole school board over their COVID policy and replaced them. You might want to gather support from other parents Manny.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 17, 2021, 01:34:46 PM
One local community in the US got rid of their whole school board over their COVID policy and replaced them. You might want to gather support from other parents Manny.

The head assures me that he doesn't envisage his new 'rule' being longer than two weeks in duration.

When challenged on the legality this afternoon, he said:

Quote
With regards to how enforceable this all is: my understanding is that from the outset it has not been possible for Headteachers to legally insist on this and we are operating on the basis of voluntary cooperation across the school community. I am very grateful for the support of parents (and pupils) in this regard.

Meanwhile, my daughter isn't wearing one anyway on my say-so. They can like it or lump it. When asked why not as she was today, she replied, "Because Boris and my Dad said so". Chip off the old block....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 17, 2021, 01:55:35 PM
....

Meanwhile in the Netherlands, working for a large university I still get emails like this one at least once a month (anonymized bc of privacy of the family)

Dear colleagues,


At the beginning of the evening the sad news reached us that X, General Service employee, passed away at the end of the afternoon.

As you may know, X was felled by Corona more than 3 weeks ago and ended up in the ICU almost immediately and has been kept asleep ever since.

Even more sad is the fact that he would retire at the end of August; something he let be known to anyone who wanted to hear it.

Together with his wife, he was proud of the new home they had bought in Limburg. Unfortunately, this happiness is no longer granted to him and to them.

 

Just like us, X was once an employee of (one of the predecessors of) the XXXX; later he moved with his task “along” to the XXXX and later to XXXX.

Many colleagues will remember X as a loyal colleague with his characteristic Hague Humor.

On behalf of these colleagues and the ISSC, we wish his wife and loved ones the strength to bear this great loss. Together with the Faculty of Science, we will pay appropriate attention to this from the ISSC.

Sincerely,
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 17, 2021, 01:55:55 PM
One local community in the US got rid of their whole school board over their COVID policy and replaced them. You might want to gather support from other parents Manny.

The head assures me that he doesn't envisage his new 'rule' being longer than two weeks in duration.

When challenged on the legality this afternoon, he said:

Quote
With regards to how enforceable this all is: my understanding is that from the outset it has not been possible for Headteachers to legally insist on this and we are operating on the basis of voluntary cooperation across the school community. I am very grateful for the support of parents (and pupils) in this regard.

Meanwhile, my daughter isn't wearing one anyway on my say-so. They can like it or lump it. When asked why not as she was today, she replied, "Because Boris and my Dad said so". Chip off the old block....

Good for her!

Meanwhile Eric Clapton says that he had a very bad reaction the the Vaccine and apparently regrets getting it.

Quote

"In February this year, before I learned about the nature of the vaccines, (and being 76 with ephezyma) I was in the avant garde. I took the first jab of AZ and straight away had severe reactions which lasted ten days, I recovered eventually and was told it would be twelve weeks before the second one...
About six weeks later I was offered and took the second AZ shot, but with a little more knowledge of the dangers. Needless to say the reactions were disastrous, my hands and feet were either frozen, numb or burning, and pretty much useless for two weeks, I feared I would never play again, (I suffer with peripheral neuropathy and should never have gone near the needle.) But the propaganda said the vaccine was safe for everyone....
Then I met a member of this group, who counselled me to be careful and to have a look at what goes on with you guys...
I felt like a veil had been lifted, that I was no longer alone, that it was okay, in fact essential, to hold on to my intuition and follow my heart..."


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/eric-clapton-after-astrazeneca-vaccine-propaganda-overstated-safety/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 18, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
I am not in the mood to dig into this tonight. It needs to be read very carefully, really examined with a fine tooth comb. Billy, what say you? Essentially I am posting this on his behalf. Because he is the most committed to trying to stay on top of this situation of all of us. I will say it looks promising.

Quote


POULOS’ OPENING STATEMENT WAS FRAUDULENT

Proof: Dominion cites three entities in its complaints against Powell, Giuliana, Lindell, etc. (1) US Dominion, Inc., (2) Dominion Voting Systems, Inc. and (3) Dominion Voting Systems Corporation. 1 and 2 are Delaware SHELL COMPANIES with de minimus capitalization. See attached. We pulled (paid for) their records. No. 3 is their evident Canadian controlling corporation. Even their Denver branch filed initially as a Toronto, Ontario, Canada corporation (see below).



http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/04/john-poulos-liar-in-chief-for-dominion-voting-systems/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 19, 2021, 11:33:53 AM
I am not in the mood to dig into this tonight. It needs to be read very carefully, really examined with a fine tooth comb. Billy, what say you? Essentially I am posting this on his behalf. Because he is the most committed to trying to stay on top of this situation of all of us. I will say it looks promising.

Quote


POULOS’ OPENING STATEMENT WAS FRAUDULENT

Proof: Dominion cites three entities in its complaints against Powell, Giuliana, Lindell, etc. (1) US Dominion, Inc., (2) Dominion Voting Systems, Inc. and (3) Dominion Voting Systems Corporation. 1 and 2 are Delaware SHELL COMPANIES with de minimus capitalization. See attached. We pulled (paid for) their records. No. 3 is their evident Canadian controlling corporation. Even their Denver branch filed initially as a Toronto, Ontario, Canada corporation (see below).



http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/04/john-poulos-liar-in-chief-for-dominion-voting-systems/

That's old news. Dominion also has an office on an Island in the Caribbean. The CEO lied many times when he testified. He said the machines can't be connected to the internet. His voting machine user manual says they can. In the current Arizona audit, the election officials refuse to turn over the routers because it would reveal the machines did connect to the internet and people outside the country switched votes from Biden to Trump.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 19, 2021, 12:19:40 PM


Chinese professor says China winning wars, including the biological one. He says Trump, the liberals, America and UK all failed. We know what he's teaching his students.

https://centipedenation.com/first-column/ccp-professor-claims-china-defeated-u-s-in-biological-war/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on May 20, 2021, 05:21:41 AM
Professor Chen, the academic mentioned in the video linked by Billy is an economist at Fudan University, Fudan is one of, if not the leading university in the field of economics in China. I was fortunate enough to be able to spend a short time studying there back in 2004. It was one of the most enlightening periods of my life.

While it is clear that Professor Chen's 'words' are going to be used in anti-China propaganda, as usual, it looks as though the reality of what he was saying and his meaning is rather different to the English language headlines.

As far as I can tell, obviously only from translation, Chen was sticking to his knitting and talking from the perspective of his metier - economics. When he talked of winning wars, he was not letting slip a secret about China unleashing a virus upon the world. He was referring to the Chinese response and bounceback from the crisis. They won a biological war against the virus and that led to economic 'victories' over the United States.

I suppose that one could see the Covid thing as a war fought by China, the USA, the UK etc. Not so much against each other but against a common foe. However, just as after WW2, just as the UK, USA and the rest of the allies were victorious, the USA was clearly more victorious! Against Covid-19, China seems to have been more victorious.

The truth of this relative victory can be seen in the relative trade deficits between China and the USA. Having described the situation as a victory, I am less certain that the government, who Chen does not speak for, might have a slightly different view of the deficit situation. My surmise is that they would prefer for it to be smaller. But that's a whole other thing.

For sure, unless some of the things I learned at Fudan University have changed on a fundamental level, Professor Chen would not be making the claims made by those putting words into his mouth.

By the way, I have on my desktop a copy of an interesting article Chen wrote back in 2015:
Has Capitalism Defeated Socialism Yet?—Kornai's Turnaround on Liberalism, and the Evaporation of Myths about Eastern Europe

The article is a commentary on a paper by another academic, Hungarian economist Janos Kornai who was writing about the possibility of a reversal of the trend to liberalisation in Eastern Europe. I might just dig that up as the guy may have been rather prophetic.

I have not read it in detail yet, but a quick skim makes for interesting reading in the context of both the video that Billy linked and how The West sees China.

If you're interested you can read it here: https://ur.booksc.org/dl/38530106/cd1fa9 That's a direct download link for the PDF.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 20, 2021, 11:01:29 AM

French Virologist and Nobel Peace Prize winner said vaccinating during a pandemic is a mistake and history will show it. Says the we are creating more dangerous variants. Kind of reminds me of the doom and gloom for humanity the ex VP of Pfizer, and ex senior project manager for epidemics at the Gates foundation were saying. I sincerely hope they are wrong this time but what they are claiming can happen.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/shocking-claims-by-luc-montagnier-nobel-prize-laureate_5eYUr3n662YSx65.html


Doctors suing government. They want to prevent kids from getting experimental vaccines. Kids have almost zero chance of dying from COVID and the biological agents in vaccines may cause them more harm than the virus.

https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.org/frontline-news/americas-frontline-doctors-files-motion-for-temporary-restraining-order-against-use-of-covid-vaccine-in-children
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 21, 2021, 11:46:52 AM

French Virologist and Nobel Peace Prize winner said vaccinating during a pandemic is a mistake and history will show it. Says the we are creating more dangerous variants. Kind of reminds me of the doom and gloom for humanity the ex VP of Pfizer, and ex senior project manager for epidemics at the Gates foundation were saying. I sincerely hope they are wrong this time but what they are claiming can happen.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/shocking-claims-by-luc-montagnier-nobel-prize-laureate_5eYUr3n662YSx65.html


Doctors suing government. They want to prevent kids from getting experimental vaccines. Kids have almost zero chance of dying from COVID and the biological agents in vaccines may cause them more harm than the virus.

https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.org/frontline-news/americas-frontline-doctors-files-motion-for-temporary-restraining-order-against-use-of-covid-vaccine-in-children

Thanks Billy, excellent video.

The first link is a video featuring a French scientist who says that the Vaccine itself is creating the new variants which also results in new deaths.

He also states that it was a huge mistake to make a vaccine while the CV was still active and that epidemiologists know this but they have been silent. He says that eventually history books will acknowledge it was a big mistake.

As far as children normal people know that they don't need a vaccine. This is Frankenstein medicine. It is clearly "medicine" which is being done solely for the profit of big Pharma.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 21, 2021, 11:53:36 AM
Quote

“The Constitution of this Republic should  make special  provision for medical freedom. To restrict the  art  of healing  to one class will constitute the Bastille  of medical science.  All such laws  are unAmerican and despotic. …  Unless we  put  medical freedom into the constitution  the  time  will  come  when medicine  will  organize  into  an undercover dictatorship and force people  who  wish  doctors and treatment  of their own choice to  submit to  only  what the dictating outfit  offers.”  Attributed to  Dr.  Benjamin Rush  –  Founding  Father, signer of  the Declaration of Independence and personal  physician to George Washington. 

“The  more it (vaccination)  is supported by public authorities,  the more will its dangers and disadvantages  be concealed or  denied.”    M. Beddow Bayly  –  Physician.   

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2021, 11:37:50 AM

100 years from now, the experts may look back to this time and wonder why we were so stupid due to fear and panic to be injecting experimental vaccines into our and our children's bodies. They will be puzzled that the previous strategy against prior pandemics never called for vaccinating everybody in the world and certainly not vaccinating strong people with healthy immune systems. The previous strategies worked! Why a drastic change in game plan against COVID? Future medical scientists may work on a solution to fix their compromised immune systems they inherited from us. We simply won't know the results of injecting experimental vaccines into the masses until years from now.

Here's a doctor that is warning the university that his daughter is going to. It is a religious based university that is mandating all students to get vaccinated.

http://rumble.com/vhe88b-what-is-in-the-covid-19-vaccines-with-doctor-jim-meehan.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on May 22, 2021, 12:57:51 PM
I had my second one yesterday.

Still not grown an extra limb.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 22, 2021, 05:49:53 PM
I had my second dose in February. I really do not care what people think a hundred years from now. Billy your arguments are just silly. It is more likely that a hundred years from now they will wonder why so many people were so missed guided as to not get the vaccine, stop this disease and save lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 22, 2021, 05:54:15 PM

EMA says it can take 7-10 years to successfully develop a safe and effective vaccine. What is given to us now is an experimental vaccine and the world's population are test subjects in this experiment. Who knows how this experiment will end. It may be successful or governments may be apologizing. They've taken away our right to sue for malpractice in America.

In a few months they will have created another experimental vaccine for us to take for the variants of the virus. There will be no end to this cycle. While it will take another 7 years to fully understand if the current first wave of vaccines are safe, we will have to wait even longer for the results of dozens of other experimental vaccines given to us over that period of time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 22, 2021, 06:47:08 PM
Just was in the Hospital to have some minor eye surgery a couple of weeks ago. All the doctor there strongly disagree with you. Everybody had gotten their shots and were recommending them to all patients.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on May 23, 2021, 01:14:34 AM

EMA says it can take 7-10 years to successfully develop a safe and effective vaccine. What is given to us now is an experimental vaccine and the world's population are test subjects in this experiment. Who knows how this experiment will end. It may be successful or governments may be apologizing. They've taken away our right to sue for malpractice in America.

In a few months they will have created another experimental vaccine for us to take for the variants of the virus. There will be no end to this cycle. While it will take another 7 years to fully understand if the current first wave of vaccines are safe, we will have to wait even longer for the results of dozens of other experimental vaccines given to us over that period of time.

Well good thing then that they have been developing vaccines for coronavirusses since 2003 then.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/severe-acute-respiratory-syndrome#tab=tab_1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 23, 2021, 01:45:22 AM

EMA says it can take 7-10 years to successfully develop a safe and effective vaccine. What is given to us now is an experimental vaccine and the world's population are test subjects in this experiment. Who knows how this experiment will end. It may be successful or governments may be apologizing. They've taken away our right to sue for malpractice in America.

In a few months they will have created another experimental vaccine for us to take for the variants of the virus. There will be no end to this cycle. While it will take another 7 years to fully understand if the current first wave of vaccines are safe, we will have to wait even longer for the results of dozens of other experimental vaccines given to us over that period of time.

Well good thing then that they have been developing vaccines for coronavirusses since 2003 then.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/severe-acute-respiratory-syndrome#tab=tab_1

Yes, they've worked on a SARS coronavirus vaccine for years and still after all the time testing for safety gone by, none has been approved for use on humans. The SARS pandemic was with a virus more deadly than what we are facing and health experts back then didn't implement a vaccinate everybody in the world policy with an experimental vaccine. They beat SARS with a different strategy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 23, 2021, 10:45:28 AM
Just was in the Hospital to have some minor eye surgery a couple of weeks ago. All the doctor there strongly disagree with you. Everybody had gotten their shots and were recommending them to all patients.

Only because they know damn well if they go against the preferred narrative of Big Pharma controlled "medicine" they would soon be unemployed. Furthermore they know that the drug companies cannot be sued.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 23, 2021, 11:10:11 AM
I had my second one yesterday.

Still not grown an extra limb.

Nice knowing you, good luck in the after life.  :laugh:

But seriously, if you and your wife were young enough to want more kids, you would not get this vaccine. Because they are tied to birth defects. Furthermore if you do have complications you cannot sue the big Pharma company who made it. As Billy has said, read the fine print.

While I admire your courage in getting the shot, the truth is nobody really knows the long term effect of these vaccines, yet.
Title: Extinction Level Event
Post by: Contrarian on May 23, 2021, 11:20:50 AM
Extinction Level Event.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/04/the-covid-19-extinction-level-event/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 23, 2021, 11:26:58 AM

Senator Rand Paul who is trying to learn if America funded the creation of the virus said he has not been presented evidence yet that vaccines are better than our own natural immune systems.

Extinction Level Event.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/04/the-covid-19-extinction-level-event/

If I read that and only that, I would say it's a conspiracy theory piece and the author has no expertise with vaccines. But I have shown three experts in the field of virology that said our current vaccine strategy could lead to depopulation. We'll know in the future if they are right or wrong. There may only be a 5% chance they are right but it's still a gamble and we are gambling with millions if not billions of lives.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 23, 2021, 02:32:33 PM

Senator Rand Paul who is trying to learn if America funded the creation of the virus said he has not been presented evidence yet that vaccines are better than our own natural immune systems.

Extinction Level Event.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/04/the-covid-19-extinction-level-event/

If I read that and only that, I would say it's a conspiracy theory piece and the author has no expertise with vaccines. But I have shown three experts in the field of virology that said our current vaccine strategy could lead to depopulation. We'll know in the future if they are right or wrong. There may only be a 5% chance they are right but it's still a gamble and we are gambling with millions if not billions of lives.

Manny and Steveboy might like the article I posted.

After all they do refer to NATO as the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization.  :laugh:

Quote

"What the world is experiencing in 2021 and going forward is a manmade EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT via an ongoing series of bioterrorists acts perpetrated by a genocidal conspiracy of state actors, corporate entities, NGOs, secret societies[1] and terrorist organizations such as NATO (aka North Atlantic Terrorist Organization)."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 23, 2021, 03:05:15 PM
Herpes is a side effect of some of these "vaccines"?  :laugh:

http://stateofthenation.co/?p=60990
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 23, 2021, 08:24:58 PM

Michigan governor apologizes for screwing up. She is one of five Democratic governors that put COVID infected elderly into old folks homes which alarmingly inflated our death rate early in the pandemic. She has some of the strictest rules on movement and operating a business in her state. Business owners got punished if they didn't comply. Now she's caught in a bar which a large group of people who are not her family, no masks in view and no social distancing.

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2021/05/23/gretchen-whitmer-apologizes-admits-she-made-mistake-violating-coronavirus-orders-east-lansing-bar/

Seems to be the norm for Democrats leaders. Pelosi, Feinstein, Gov Newsom, and Kerry all been caught without masks on planes, airports, and restaurants. Rules for thee, but not for me!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 25, 2021, 02:51:21 PM
Somebody posted a recent CNN video showing CNN personnel blaming Trump for not revealing that the virus came from a lab citing he didn't provide evidence. Lol. MSM hammered Trump and Pompeo last year for revealing the virus came from a lab. Pompeo said Fauci had the same info he did and Fauci dismissed the lab theory last year and Fauci said China is being transparent.

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2021/05/24/pompeo-fauci-had-the-same-information-i-had-when-he-dismissed-lab-leak-theory/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29


Wuhan lab staff was sick Nov 2019.  My uncle who was touring China on a train said his train was forbidden to go into Wuhan Nov 15th. They had to go around the city.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228


Tucker Carson said Thai intelligence warned Fauci of a biological anomaly in Wuhan Nov 2019. I'd post the video but it disappeared. Lots of the Youtube videos I post on the virus and election fraud disappear.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 26, 2021, 09:39:27 AM
Yes, it seems that the MSM is finally investigating the possibility that the virus was manmade and escaped from the Wuhan lab. My question is why? And I think it's because the Biden admin wants to blame China. After all that time denouncing the possibility, now they are coming around.


https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-05-coronavirus-lab-idea-scientists.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 28, 2021, 04:56:14 AM
Understanding blood clots in non mRNA vaccines

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on May 29, 2021, 10:17:30 AM
This may interest some of you....

A study by David Sulzer, PhD, Columbia University Medical Center
April 10, 2021
A shocking study has revealed the terrifying dangers of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines inducing prion-based disease causing your brain to degenerate progressively. The mRNA vaccine induced prions may cause neurodegenerative diseases because long-term memories are maintained by prion-like proteins. The study concluded that mRNA based vaccine may also cause ALS, front temporal lobar degeneration, Alzheimer’s disease and other neurological degenerative diseases in the vaccine recipients.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on May 29, 2021, 10:33:07 AM
Well, that explains Tex. (oh stop it, I'm kidding...kinda :chuckle:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 29, 2021, 12:17:42 PM
The mRNA vaccines are the safest vaccines ever developed. This is just like the fake elections in the USA. Just fake news. It is amazing the same people to say fake elections also say fake vaccine danger. The real news is we are open up in the USA and infections are down because of the vaccine while much of the rest of the world is still having deaths and lock downs.

You guys just are not smart to understand the video. It was not even about mRNA vaccines it was about non mRNA vaccines and blood clots.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 29, 2021, 02:13:35 PM
The mRNA vaccines are the safest vaccines ever developed.


Name one mRNA vaccine that has been approved for use on humans. Emergency authorization doesn't count.



COVID-19 has no credible natural ancestor. I've said that early last year and some people told me to listen to the scientists. I knew they were lying to us back then. How many times do these medical scientists have to lie to us before we understand they lie to us?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html


2012 Fauci says gain of function research outweighs the risk of a pathogen escaping a lab and causing a pandemic. Somebody should ask him what he thinks about it now.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3484390/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-pathogen-experiments-outweigh-risk-pandemic


2012 Fauci went in Congress to get permission and funding for GOF. Said GOF will benefit society.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 29, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The mRNA vaccines are the safest vaccines ever developed.


Name one mRNA vaccine that has been approved for use on humans. Emergency authorization doesn't count.



COVID-19 has no credible natural ancestor. I've said that early last year and some people told me to listen to the scientists. I knew they were lying to us back then. How many times do these medical scientists have to lie to us before we understand they lie to us?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html


2012 Fauci says gain of function research outweighs the risk of a pathogen escaping a lab and causing a pandemic. Somebody should ask him what he thinks about it now.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3484390/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fauci-pathogen-experiments-outweigh-risk-pandemic


2012 Fauci went in Congress to get permission and funding for GOF. Said GOF will benefit society.



I is proof enough for me the our infection rate is dropping like a rock because of the mRNA vaccines. That is far more proof than what you have about elections.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 29, 2021, 03:41:08 PM
The mRNA vaccines are the safest vaccines ever developed.


Name one mRNA vaccine that has been approved for use on humans. Emergency authorization doesn't count.



COVID-19 has no credible natural ancestor. I've said that early last year and some people told me to listen to the scientists. I knew they were lying to us back then. How many times do these medical scientists have to lie to us before we understand they lie to us?


That is the problem Billy, the lamestream media propagandists only present big Pharma bought and paid for "scientists" as being scientists. Only they and their minions know the truth, we are told.

Real scientists (the ones I consider real and I'm not alone) get silenced or unemployed. They and their posts get removed from big tech social media sites. ALL the msm sites mock them or ignore them.

It's up to us to do our own research and make our own choices. While we still can.

I don't claim to know with 100% certainty that these mRNA experimental vaccines are highly dangerous, dangerous or mildly troublesome.

And I am not in a hurry to become a human guinea pig and find out. If Tex is still alive two years from now, I wonder if he will make even less sense to most of us than he does now?  :laugh:

Tex do you have some sort of will or insurance for your girlfriend and her son in Ukraine to take care of them if you're not around in two years?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 29, 2021, 03:56:04 PM
Many of the controversial scientists claim that the vaccines are actually seeding new strains of CV. This makes perfect sense to me. Because data can be so easily manipulated it's very difficult to know with any precision exactly what the truth is, other than we already have a fantastic immune system. And for thousands of years, that is how we survived without modern science.

Quote

Katerina Ang, (c) 2021, The Washington Post
Sat, May 29, 2021, 8:25 AM
Vietnam's Health Ministry announced Saturday that it had detected a highly transmissible new variant of the coronavirus that has helped fuel a recent wave of covid-19 infections in the country.

Genetic sequencing indicated that the new variant was a mix of the coronavirus strains first detected in the United Kingdom and India, said Health Minister Nguyen Thanh Long, according to the VnExpress newspaper.

Subscribe to The Post Most newsletter for the most important and interesting stories from The Washington Post.

The minister said that the new variant was particularly contagious via air and that viral cultures have revealed that it replicates extremely quickly, the newspaper reported.

"The new variant is very dangerous," Long said in a statement.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/04/the-great-covid-19-vaccine-criminal-cover-up/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 29, 2021, 04:15:49 PM
Wow! 117 workers at a Hospital refuse to get vaccinated.

Quote

"The complaint, filed in state court, says Houston Methodist's vaccine mandate violates a set of medical ethics standards known as the Nuremberg Code, which was designed to prevent experimentation on human subjects without consent. The code was created after World War II in response to the medical atrocities Nazis committed against prisoners in concentration camps.
"Methodist Hospital is forcing its employees to be human 'guinea pigs' as a condition for continued employment," the complaint states. It adds that the mandate "requires the employee to subject themselves to medical experimentation as a prerequisite to feeding their families."


https://www.stripes.com/Sports/US/2021-05-29/117-staffers-sue-over-Houston-hospitals-vaccine-mandate-say-they-dont-want-to-be-guinea-pigs-1605616.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 29, 2021, 06:08:47 PM
Well I got my mRNA vaccine and I still do not glow in the dark and have not grown an extra arm. It has been four months now. I will get booster as soon as it is available maybe in October. Go ahead and subject your bodies to the virus it has been proven to do all the things you claim the vaccine might do and so much more. Eventually everyone will get this if they do not get shots and boosters. Then you want to complain when we get vaccine passports which you call as  unfair. If there is not passport you are taking away our right to travel and have fun because your your childish behavior. 

Yes there is complaint about the vaccine at hospitals. But hospital can not function with medical staff infected with the virus. We can have no hospitals or they need to get shots. I am sure you guys would like to see all the hospitals just shut down and all the nurses laid off.

This type of stuff is why Trump lost. This type of thinking is costing the GOP elections. If it continues they will not win anything.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-memo-marjorie-taylor-greene-exposes-gop-establishment-s-lack-of-power/ar-AAKw3mC?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 29, 2021, 06:42:57 PM
Yes there is complaint about the vaccine at hospitals. But hospital can not function with medical staff infected with the virus. We can have no hospitals or they need to get shots. I am sure you guys would like to see all the hospitals just shut down and all the nurses laid off.

Wow! What a silly statement. Hospitals do not allow sick employees to work in the first place.

If you would actually try to read and understand something, you would know that the PCR tests are meaningless to begin with. Especially because they can easily be manipulated.

What is meaningful is if a person actually has the symptoms of Covid. And every hospital and many businesses take a temperature reading of their employees as well as asking them a litany of questions about their symptoms.

Employees are not allowed to go to work if they have had any symptoms.

The vaccines are not actually working either, as many people continue to get Covid after getting a vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/05/15/bill-maher-tests-positive-for-covid-19-coronavirus-and-is-fully-vaccinated/?sh=2132a9a67ebf

What does work is having a healthy immune system. That is diet and exercise, as well as taking vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc. Those are the basics.

Now if the alternative Doctors and "conspiracy theorists" are correct, then the workers at hospitals who are vaccinated are actually giving CV19 to all of the patients, due to the patients being in close proximity to those who are vaccinated.

If you could actually think for yourself Tex you would figure out that masks out in public don't save lives, they cause lives to be lost. Why? Because it weakens a persons immune system to wear a mask and socially distance.

On a daily basis the immune system needs to be exposed to various bad stuff, in order to be optimized at fighting against it.

It's similar to athletes who need to have exercise and aerobic conditioning in order to perform. Without it they get weaker and could not perform against athletes who do work out.

Tex I have said before, there isn't much hope for you as far as you being able to use your rational skills. But others reading may wish to think for themselves.

I actually hope I am wrong and all the "conspiracy theorist" type of Doctors and scientists are wrong. We just don't know quite yet.

What we do know is that we are guaranteed Liberty per the US Constitution. Going back to WWII there is the Nuremberg Code which prohibits using humans for medical experiments.

You chose to do it, but don't whine about others who refuse. If your vaccine is allegedly working, then you have nothing to worry about.

Right Tex?  Did you not say you got both shots AND you're going to get a booster? So you have absolutely nothing to worry about.  :sick0012:  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on May 29, 2021, 06:52:10 PM
I don't claim to know with 100% certainty that these mRNA experimental vaccines are highly dangerous, dangerous or mildly troublesome.


No mRNA medicine has ever been approved for use on humans. They are in stage 2 development except for the emergency use vaccines. mRNA may be great medicine but more testing needs to be done. There have been results someone in stage 2 testing has his cancer cured. As many Americans are dying from cancer every year as with COVID. Why don't they give emergency use for people with cancer?


Yes there is complaint about the vaccine at hospitals. But hospital can not function with medical staff infected with the virus. We can have no hospitals or they need to get shots. I am sure you guys would like to see all the hospitals just shut down and all the nurses laid off.


You're making stuff up. My wife is doing her clinicals at a hospital and she gives vaccine shots but she's not required to get vaccinated. Sometimes medical staff gets flus, colds, and other illnesses and they don't shut the hospital down.

Aren't you a Democrat who goes by the slogan "My body, my choice"? You can get your vaccine and your abortion and I will not get a vaccine or an abortion. Deal?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on May 29, 2021, 06:56:28 PM
I don't claim to know with 100% certainty that these mRNA experimental vaccines are highly dangerous, dangerous or mildly troublesome.


No mRNA medicine has ever been approved for use on humans. They are in stage 2 development except for the emergency use vaccines. mRNA may be great medicine but more testing needs to be done. There have been results someone in stage 2 testing has his cancer cured. As many Americans are dying from cancer every year as with COVID. Why don't they give emergency use for people with cancer?


Yes there is complaint about the vaccine at hospitals. But hospital can not function with medical staff infected with the virus. We can have no hospitals or they need to get shots. I am sure you guys would like to see all the hospitals just shut down and all the nurses laid off.


You're making stuff up. My wife is doing her clinicals at a hospital and she gives vaccine shots but she's not required to get vaccinated. Sometimes medical staff gets flus, colds, and other illnesses and they don't shut the hospital down.

Aren't you a Democrat who goes by the slogan "My body, my choice"? You can get your vaccine and your abortion and I will not get a vaccine or an abortion. Deal?

 :ROFL:          :ROFL:           :ROFL:          :ROFL:       tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 29, 2021, 10:48:17 PM
I don't claim to know with 100% certainty that these mRNA experimental vaccines are highly dangerous, dangerous or mildly troublesome.


No mRNA medicine has ever been approved for use on humans. They are in stage 2 development except for the emergency use vaccines. mRNA may be great medicine but more testing needs to be done. There have been results someone in stage 2 testing has his cancer cured. As many Americans are dying from cancer every year as with COVID. Why don't they give emergency use for people with cancer?


Yes there is complaint about the vaccine at hospitals. But hospital can not function with medical staff infected with the virus. We can have no hospitals or they need to get shots. I am sure you guys would like to see all the hospitals just shut down and all the nurses laid off.


You're making stuff up. My wife is doing her clinicals at a hospital and she gives vaccine shots but she's not required to get vaccinated. Sometimes medical staff gets flus, colds, and other illnesses and they don't shut the hospital down.

Aren't you a Democrat who goes by the slogan "My body, my choice"? You can get your vaccine and your abortion and I will not get a vaccine or an abortion. Deal?

No I am real conservative not a nut right wing nut case who wants to start a civil war and shoot people.  This virus kills too many people for the hospital to have to pay claims if patients get sick. Methodist hospital is a very large hospital here. 117 employees is an extremely small part of there staff. Noticed if these guys were wanted by other hospitals they could easily get jobs but no body wants them. Huge shortage of medical people Houston Texas but no one want these people.

When I got my shot no body there giving shots did not have both doses of the vaccine and at least three weeks after the second dose. I asked. I got Pfizer at St Luke's Hospital Houston Texas. Methodist is about a mile from St Luke's. The VA hospital Houston is just next door St Luke's. All the staff at the VA hospital also claimed they all have there shots also Pfizer. It looks like if you guys are right we will not have any medical staff left in the very near future in the Houston area.   :ROFL:

The vaccine works. The number of infections is much lower USA because of them. You can dream of anything that makes you feel better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on May 29, 2021, 10:57:53 PM
Vaccine tourist. This is people coming from other countries to the USA in order to get their shots for Covid-19 shots.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/like-a-dream-latin-americans-head-to-u-s-for-covid-shots/ar-AAKvY57?ocid=msedgntp

Frustrated with the lagging pace of vaccine campaigns at home and seeing a surplus of doses in the United States — where tens of millions of Americans have opted not to get inoculated — wealthy and middle-class Latin Americans with American tourist visas have been flocking to the United States in recent weeks to score a Covid-19 shot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on May 30, 2021, 01:38:21 AM
Wow! 117 workers at a Hospital refuse to get vaccinated.

Quote

"The complaint, filed in state court, says Houston Methodist's vaccine mandate violates a set of medical ethics standards known as the Nuremberg Code, which was designed to prevent experimentation on human subjects without consent. The code was created after World War II in response to the medical atrocities Nazis committed against prisoners in concentration camps.
"Methodist Hospital is forcing its employees to be human 'guinea pigs' as a condition for continued employment," the complaint states. It adds that the mandate "requires the employee to subject themselves to medical experimentation as a prerequisite to feeding their families."

https://www.stripes.com/Sports/US/2021-05-29/117-staffers-sue-over-Houston-hospitals-vaccine-mandate-say-they-dont-want-to-be-guinea-pigs-1605616.html

Not withstanding certain realities, my guess especially in todays legal system there is enough precedent that the 117 will prevail in court. But this case might end up before the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on June 01, 2021, 03:55:12 PM
Well I got the J&J One shot and done 4 weeks ago along with a CDC Card that will allow for a well deserved Cruise holiday when they open back up (Now for a Noro Cruise Ship Virus Vaxx - got the Norovirus on the end of my last cruise and was sick as a dog flu like symptoms for 6 weeks - likely covid shipboard sanitary protocols will reduce Norovirus incidents as well - I still wear a mask in Grocery Stores etc., because I do not need to use 2A against any looney Commie Covid Crazies...

Should be 99% immune after 45 days near end of June/Early July then ready for action.

Noticed a lot of women on dating sites posting the date of their double shot mRNA Vaxx - ironic because of all the mRNA side effects documented (Placenta rejection of fertilized human eggs causing infertility in women and even lower sperm counts in Men) in the American Front Line Doctors Society 26 page PDF report among other private media reports that the Big Pharma bought and controlled MSM and Social Media are suppressing.

Anyway so far so good with the J&J only side effects have been a slight fever and very slight arm soreness at the intoxination er ah um inoculation site that was gone the next day.

AFLDS Report did say that not enough testing was done on animals to see if they tolerated the vaccines including J&J - that when exposed to SarsCov2 in the "wild" (A dozen years ago a SARS corona virus Vaxx was tested on ferrets - they tolerated the Vaxx well but all died when exposed to SARS in the wild due to hyper antibody reactions and cytokine storm respiratory failure and therefore NO human testing was done with the SARS Vaxx - well i am a J&J Guinea Pig Lab Rat now) According to AFLDS report an unknown and unquantified possibility exists you might experience Vaxx hyper antibody reactions if exposed to SarsCov2 in the wild after the Vaxx resulting in cytokine storms that caused most of the respiratory pneumonia like deaths that the ventilators only exacerbated.   Turns out Hydroxychloroquine with Zinc and Ivermectin were extremely effective prophylactic treatments that of course Big Pharma and the MSM totally discredited to enjoy Mega Billion$$$ Covid Vaxx windfalls and Big Pharma Media Ads revenues.

Well the J&J Shot was free but Big Pharma immune from any side effects lawsuits - welcome to 2021.

###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on June 01, 2021, 05:45:31 PM
Coronavirus and biological catastrophe.
Evidence in major scientific journals, 2009-2020


Article by : George Romanos - Author Analyst, Historical Researcher
MSc, National and Kapodistrian University of Athens


Summary: The complete collection of biogenetic data, their in-depth research by the International Commission, the opening of the GenBank archives and other archives for the current Covid-19 Coronavirus epidemic are prerequisites for any other move to address now and in the future of its unprecedented transmissibility. The entanglement between research centres, the aforementioned GenBank and the in-depth mechanism of state Bio safety committees needs to be effectively investigated. At the same time, a new global "Agreement for the Prohibition of Experiments Leading to the Manufacture of Biological Weapons", which will be effectively observed, is one of the prerequisites. Any vaccine, medication and the absolutely necessary enhancement of medical staff with a vertical increase of all health parameters, will not solve the problem, if the root causes are not eliminated first.

This is a very interesting article.....with plenty of evidence.

https://eligea.gr/%CE%BA%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B1-%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%82/%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%8A%CF%8C%CF%82-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CE%B2%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C%CF%82-%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%B8%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%BB/

The Greek text in red, is by the Author who verify where & when he found the documentary evidence he is presenting.

Enjoy Reading...... The Article is easily translated by Google!.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 01, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
Coronavirus and biological catastrophe.
Evidence in major scientific journals, 2009-2020


Article by : George Romanos - Author Analyst, Historical Researcher
MSc, National and Kapodistrian University of Athens


Summary: The complete collection of biogenetic data, their in-depth research by the International Commission, the opening of the GenBank archives and other archives for the current Covid-19 Coronavirus epidemic are prerequisites for any other move to address now and in the future of its unprecedented transmissibility. The entanglement between research centres, the aforementioned GenBank and the in-depth mechanism of state Bio safety committees needs to be effectively investigated. At the same time, a new global "Agreement for the Prohibition of Experiments Leading to the Manufacture of Biological Weapons", which will be effectively observed, is one of the prerequisites. Any vaccine, medication and the absolutely necessary enhancement of medical staff with a vertical increase of all health parameters, will not solve the problem, if the root causes are not eliminated first.

This is a very interesting article.....with plenty of evidence.

https://eligea.gr/%CE%BA%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B1-%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%82/%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%8A%CF%8C%CF%82-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CE%B2%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C%CF%82-%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%B8%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%BB/

The Greek text in red, is by the Author who verify where & when he found the documentary evidence he is presenting.

Enjoy Reading...... The Article is easily translated by Google!.

While I do not have the time (or energy) to read all the links this is interesting, allot of food for thought. Mostly because it is time/date stamped.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Maxx on June 02, 2021, 10:18:02 AM

November 28th I got an email from my younger daughter Elyse (I have 2 daughters). She wrote "Hillary is dead" and that was it. It took me a couple of hours to contact Elyse and find out what happened. What had happened was Hillary had been out of work due to the covid lockdown. She turned to drugs and died from an accidental drug overdose. I sure miss our long phone conversations.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on June 02, 2021, 09:09:42 PM
I don't claim to know with 100% certainty that these mRNA experimental vaccines are highly dangerous, dangerous or mildly troublesome.


No mRNA medicine has ever been approved for use on humans. They are in stage 2 development except for the emergency use vaccines. mRNA may be great medicine but more testing needs to be done. There have been results someone in stage 2 testing has his cancer cured. As many Americans are dying from cancer every year as with COVID. Why don't they give emergency use for people with cancer?


Yes there is complaint about the vaccine at hospitals. But hospital can not function with medical staff infected with the virus. We can have no hospitals or they need to get shots. I am sure you guys would like to see all the hospitals just shut down and all the nurses laid off.


You're making stuff up. My wife is doing her clinicals at a hospital and she gives vaccine shots but she's not required to get vaccinated. Sometimes medical staff gets flus, colds, and other illnesses and they don't shut the hospital down.

Aren't you a Democrat who goes by the slogan "My body, my choice"? You can get your vaccine and your abortion and I will not get a vaccine or an abortion. Deal?

Erm, Billy....
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1444412/Covid-anti-vax-rick-wiles-global-genocide-trunews
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 02, 2021, 09:49:11 PM
Erm, Billy....
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1444412/Covid-anti-vax-rick-wiles-global-genocide-trunews


I've shown three experts upthread that say the vaccine may lead to mass depopulation. That is much more dangerous than COVID. A world full of people with compromised immune systems isn't a good thing.


As some of you know by now, all of Fauci emails are out. Here they are

http://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/20793561-leopold-nih-foia-anthony-fauci-emails/


He's in deep doo doo. The pre release of his book has been pulled. He's been warned of the virus being engineered in a lab early last year.

http://populist.press/huge-fauci-busted-in-his-own-emails-truth-is-out/


Tucker shows Fauci lied over and over again even on gain of function. http://vimeo(dot)com/558339268

Not a valid vimeo URL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Maxx on June 03, 2021, 12:47:11 AM
Erm, Billy....
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1444412/Covid-anti-vax-rick-wiles-global-genocide-trunews


I've shown three experts upthread that say the vaccine may lead to mass depopulation. That is much more dangerous than COVID. A world full of people with compromised immune systems isn't a good thing.


As some of you know by now, all of Fauci emails are out. Here they are

http://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/20793561-leopold-nih-foia-anthony-fauci-emails/


He's in deep doo doo. The pre release of his book has been pulled. He's been warned of the virus being engineered in a lab early last year.

http://populist.press/huge-fauci-busted-in-his-own-emails-truth-is-out/


Tucker shows Fauci lied over and over again even on gain of function. http://vimeo(dot)com/558339268

Not a valid vimeo URL

The one thing that I criticize Trump for is his choice of people to run things. Except for a few all swamp creatures without backbones or morals.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 03, 2021, 01:34:37 AM
The one thing that I criticize Trump for is his choice of people to run things. Except for a few all swamp creatures without backbones or morals.


Fauci been in charge since 1984. Trump didn't appoint him. Trump sometimes takes recommendations from the Republican party to appoint judges and other officials and sometimes those choices are bad. To Trump's credit, he fires a lot of people quickly when other presidents tend to forgive bad behavior allowing people to keep their jobs. If Biden decides to keep Fauci, Fauci is sure to be fired when Trump comes back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 05, 2021, 01:25:10 PM
The one thing that I criticize Trump for is his choice of people to run things. Except for a few all swamp creatures without backbones or morals.


Fauci been in charge since 1984. Trump didn't appoint him. Trump sometimes takes recommendations from the Republican party to appoint judges and other officials and sometimes those choices are bad. To Trump's credit, he fires a lot of people quickly when other presidents tend to forgive bad behavior allowing people to keep their jobs. If Biden decides to keep Fauci, Fauci is sure to be fired when Trump comes back.


         
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 06, 2021, 07:56:12 PM
His Holy Highness aka Andy was up to his usual mocking of people, in this case me, because he either didn't read an article I posted or took everything out of context.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUPMZgwWAAEWOe6?format=jpg&name=small

1. The swab is 6" but I don't recall saying that the entire 6" was fully inside of your nose. But as the diagram shows, it goes pretty far up there. Why? Saliva should be good enough.

Are they getting people primed to be chipped? That's what the author was asking, and he concluded the article by saying there are more questions than answers.

2. It was a nurse in an article who claimed that the thermometers could affect the pineal gland. If it's false than take it up with the nurse!!

3. This does not change the fact that pointing a thermometer at your head is inappropriate, when a more accurate reading will come from the wrist. I especially don't like to see those pointed at the heads of children.

[Insults removed]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 08, 2021, 07:40:16 AM
Professor Emeritus Muller and Doctor Quay say that it is extremely unlikely, something like 10 Billion to one, that the Covid 19 Virus did not come from the Wuhan lab.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

Quote


"In a new "Wall Street Journal" op ed, Dr. Steven Quay and Professor Richard Muller argued the most damning evidence for a lab leak is in the virus' own genome. Muller and Quay inquiry say the presence of something called a double CGG sequence suggests COVID came from a lab. Now, why?

Well, this just happens to be a sequence commonly used in gain of function research, which we know for a fact was happening at the Wuhan lab. And here's the really damning part Muller and Quay say the DNA combination in coronaviruses has never been found in nature
.

They write, "At the minimum, this fact implies that the leading theory for the origin of coronavirus must be the laboratory escape." Those two scientists join me now. Dr. Steven Quay, founder of Atossa Therapeutics; and Professor Richard Muller, emeritus professor of physics at the University of California, Berkeley."



https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/ingraham-angle-on-democrat-leaders-covid-origins
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 09, 2021, 10:09:04 AM


Months ago I seen some videos of people saying the vaccines have magnetic properties. They'd put magnets or metal over their skin where they got the shot and it would hold. Thought it was a prank at first but more and more people have shown this to be true.

https://gab.com/LaurenWitzkeDE/posts/106309658534251225


Your medical records should not be confidential and is everybody's business.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 15, 2021, 01:39:54 PM
FDA will likely soon give full approval for at least one vaccine by this fall. The below was copied from the following article.

Dozens of colleges nationwide also have announced they will require vaccination for enrollment this fall, including Yale, Princeton, Columbia and, in Los Angeles County, Pomona and Claremont McKenna.

The order by San Francisco, as well as the UC and Cal State systems, will go into effect only after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration gives formal approval to one of the vaccines. Currently, all three vaccines being distributed in the U.S. have received "emergency use authorization."

Health experts expect full approval of at least one of the vaccines by fall.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/san-francisco-to-require-staff-in-hospitals-jails-and-nursing-homes-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/ar-AAL4GQ5?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 15, 2021, 01:48:24 PM
"This vaccine is about control" and "They're criminals". Interview with Lawyer Reiner Fuellmich.

https://jermwarfare.com/blog/reiner-fuellmich-fight-back
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 15, 2021, 01:59:30 PM
Stephanie Seneff is a senior researcher at MIT.

After receiving four degrees from MIT (B.S.. in Biophysics, M.S., E.E., and Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science), she has conducted research in packet-switched networks, computational modeling of the human auditory system, natural language processing, spoken dialogue systems, and second language learning.

Currently a Senior Research Scientist (MIT’s highest research rank) at the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, she has supervised 21 Master’s and 14 Ph.D. students. For over a decade, since 2008, she has directed her attention towards the role of nutrition and environmental toxicants on human disease, with a special emphasis on the herbicide glyphosate and the mineral sulfur
.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2021, 04:28:10 PM
FDA will likely soon give full approval for at least one vaccine by this fall.


No vaccine or medicine should ever get full approval that fast. We have adequate safe and approved treatments now. They should stop administering experimental vaccines with that fact. By giving experimental vaccines full approval so quickly, they are allowing them to be administered on people forever even with treatments that prevent deaths with great success. Sounds like this move is more about money than public safety. In 5 years you'll see late night commercials saying if you took "such and such" vaccine, you're eligible to participate in a class action suit against the manufacture. Maybe not because our government gave manufactures immunity from being sued.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 15, 2021, 07:37:13 PM
No vaccine has ever been tested as much as these have with hundred millions of doses given.

I know a man in his early fifties who owns a small store not far from me. He got covid-19 in January. When he had it was a very mild case. Now in the beginning of June he caught it again. This time he is not making out so well. It is much worse. He thought he did not need the vaccine but now he is having other thoughts. You can catch this disease over and over. It tears you down more every time.

Do you really think this guy is shutting down his economy because of a fake virus?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kim-warns-of-tense-food-situation-longer-covid-lockdown/ar-AAL5ftT?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2021, 11:35:53 PM
No vaccine has ever been tested as much as these have with hundred millions of doses given.


Sure, hundreds of millions if not billions of doses have been given but those who have taken a vaccine is part of an ongoing study.

I takes about 7-10 years to develop a vaccine. You can't throw trillions of dollars into safety tests that require years to complete. It will take years for reproductive toxicity tests to conclude. We may learn in 7 years a high percentage of children who took the vaccine can't have kids or for those that can, their kids have birth defects.

I posted links to 3 of the top vaccine experts in the world and in a nutshell, they say it's stupid to vaccinate healthy people who have almost no chance of dying. In the past we beat pandemics and epidemics without using the strategy of vaccinating everybody in the world. Why put healthy people at risk by giving them an experimental vaccine now?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 16, 2021, 08:48:46 AM
Because you can catch the virus over and over again until you are no longer healthy. Also because your body can be used as a vessel to give it a better chance to mutate until the vaccine no longer works. Already the AstraZeneca vaccine does not work well against one strain of the virus. If it become the dominate strain then all those people will need to get a new shot.

If this is  bio weapon it is  perfect weapon to kill western countries. In western countries people do not want to social distance or even wear mask. They do not want to get shots.
This virus will stay with us for many years. The virus will slowly ruin western economies while Asian economy will not be so affected.

Having a vaccine in seven to ten years will do little to help control this virus. By then the virus will have changed so much the vaccine will likely have little to no effect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2021, 09:37:47 AM
Because you can catch the virus over and over again until you are no longer healthy.


Your immune system stays with you forever. Will you take a vaccine over and over forever? The experts I talked about upthread say vaccinating healthy people may compromise our healthy immune system which will increase our chances of death.

Take steroids for years and then stop. Your body thinks it doesn't need to produce testosterone anymore since you're taking care of it so your dick gets smaller and you grow tits.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 16, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
Because you can catch the virus over and over again until you are no longer healthy.


Your immune system stays with you forever. Will you take a vaccine over and over forever? The experts I talked about upthread say vaccinating healthy people may compromise our healthy immune system which will increase our chances of death.

Take steroids for years and then stop. Your body thinks it doesn't need to produce testosterone anymore since you're taking care of it so your dick gets smaller and you grow tits.

Do you know anything that helps one to gain intelligence?

Okay I will settle for common sense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on June 16, 2021, 04:56:54 PM
This caught my attention:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/scottmorefield/2021/06/15/a-group-of-parents-sent-their-kids-face-masks-to-a-lab-for-analysis-heres-what-they-found-n2591047

Gainesville, FL (June 16, 2021) – A group of parents in Gainesville, FL, concerned about potential harms from masks, submitted six face masks to a lab for analysis. The resulting report found that five masks were contaminated with bacteria, parasites, and fungi, including three with dangerous pathogenic and pneumonia-causing bacteria. No viruses were detected on the masks, although the test is capable of detecting viruses.

The analysis detected the following 11 alarmingly dangerous pathogens on the masks:

• Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumonia)

• Mycobacterium tuberculosis (tuberculosis)

• Neisseria meningitidis (meningitis, sepsis)

• Acanthamoeba polyphaga (keratitis and granulomatous amebic encephalitis)

• Acinetobacter baumanni (pneumonia, blood stream infections, meningitis, UTIs— resistant to antibiotics)

• Escherichia coli (food poisoning)

• Borrelia burgdorferi (causes Lyme disease)

• Corynebacterium diphtheriae (diphtheria)

• Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires' disease)

• Staphylococcus pyogenes serotype M3 (severe infections—high morbidity rates)

• Staphylococcus aureus (meningitis, sepsis)

Half of the masks were contaminated with one or more strains of pneumonia-causing bacteria. One-third were contaminated with one or more strains of meningitis-causing bacteria. One-third were contaminated with dangerous, antibiotic-resistant bacterial pathogens. In addition, less dangerous pathogens were identified, including pathogens that can cause fever, ulcers, acne, yeast infections, strep throat, periodontal disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and more.

The face masks studied were new or freshly-laundered before wearing and had been worn for 5 to 8 hours, most during in-person schooling by children aged 6 through 11. One was worn by an adult. A t-shirt worn by one of the children at school and unworn masks were tested as controls. No pathogens were found on the controls. Proteins found on the t-shirt, for example, are not pathogenic to humans and are commonly found in hair, skin, and soil.

A parent who participated in the study, Ms. Amanda Donoho, commented that this small sample points to a need for more research: “We need to know what we are putting on the faces of our children each day. Masks provide a warm, moist environment for bacteria to grow.”

These local parents contracted with the lab because they were concerned about the potential of contaminants on masks that their children were forced to wear all day at school, taking them on and off, setting them on various surfaces, wearing them in the bathroom, etc. This prompted them to send the masks to the University of Florida’s Mass Spectrometry Research and Education Center for analysis.


###

I got the J&J One and done shot and by end of June should be 99% protected as immunity is still debated.  I still wear a blue surgical Mask on Mass Transit, in the common areas of my building and in some Grocery stores but not even servers wearing them in shops or restaurants now and have not seen any Mask Natzis running around screaming with their hair on fire if you did not have a mask covering your nose like last summer during the height of covid.

Lots of life returning to a sense of normality here.

We will see what bioweapon the Fauci Gates Soros Wuhan CCP Globalists cabal cooks up next with their CRISPR toys.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 16, 2021, 09:43:50 PM
Gee ... After a year and a half of wearing all kinds of mask I did not catch anything. I wonder why? Flu season this year was mild. Maybe this is the stuff the mask caught and kept the person from breathing. Without the mask that stuff would been inside the person instead of on the mask.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 16, 2021, 09:58:10 PM
Because you can catch the virus over and over again until you are no longer healthy.


Your immune system stays with you forever. Will you take a vaccine over and over forever? The experts I talked about upthread say vaccinating healthy people may compromise our healthy immune system which will increase our chances of death.

Take steroids for years and then stop. Your body thinks it doesn't need to produce testosterone anymore since you're taking care of it so your dick gets smaller and you grow tits.

I just talk to my friend today who caught Covid-19 for the second time. He is in a hospital and not doing well at all. He was not on a ventilator but sounded like he might end up on one soon. Remember in January when he caught Covid-19 he nearly had no systems only a little tiredness. When tested he had covid-19. He did not take any vaccine and now he is not doing so well. He is three weeks into this.

Vaccine do not compromise immune systems. It make immune system respond to a virus sooner to keep it from doing as much damage. Vaccine are not steroids. What a dumb comparison. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 17, 2021, 01:00:21 AM
Vaccine do not compromise immune systems. It make immune system respond to a virus sooner to keep it from doing as much damage. Vaccine are not steroids. What a dumb comparison.


Send an email to the ex Pfizer VP and Chief Science officer, the ex senior project manager for epidemics at the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, and French Nobel Peace Prize winner and expert in vaccinations and tell them they are wrong. The worst case scenario all three predicted is human depopulation on a mass scale. We've always beat pandemics and epidemics in the past. None needed to use the strategy of vaccinating every person on earth. We are trying something new using an experimental vaccine that can affect the lives of billions of people permanently. Doesn't seem like a good gamble to me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 17, 2021, 01:52:57 AM
Because you can catch the virus over and over again until you are no longer healthy.


Your immune system stays with you forever. Will you take a vaccine over and over forever? The experts I talked about upthread say vaccinating healthy people may compromise our healthy immune system which will increase our chances of death.

Take steroids for years and then stop. Your body thinks it doesn't need to produce testosterone anymore since you're taking care of it so your dick gets smaller and you grow tits.

I just talk to my friend today who caught Covid-19 for the second time. He is in a hospital and not doing well at all. He was not on a ventilator but sounded like he might end up on one soon. Remember in January when he caught Covid-19 he nearly had no systems only a little tiredness. When tested he had covid-19. He did not take any vaccine and now he is not doing so well. He is three weeks into this.

Vaccine do not compromise immune systems. It make immune system respond to a virus sooner to keep it from doing as much damage. Vaccine are not steroids. What a dumb comparison.

Hopefully your friend returns to a full recipe for life.

And yes the steroid comparison is bizarre.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 17, 2021, 02:27:11 AM
None needed to use the strategy of vaccinating every person on earth.
I dare to disagree:
Netherlands has an extensive children-vaccine program named BMR - DKTP - K , which as you may guess has 3 vaccines, 4 more and 1 to close off for those 8 diseases.
I don't know the english names for all of them so I will name them in Dutch:
Bof
Mazelen
rode hond
Difterie
Kinkhoest
Tering
Polio

All of these diseases get you a vaccin ad very young ages in the netherlands, my sons got vaccinated as early as 3 years old for the DKTP diseases.
Quote
We are trying something new using an experimental vaccine that can affect the lives of billions of people permanently. Doesn't seem like a good gamble to me.
All the vaccine does, is train your body to recognise & eliminate covid (A corona strain). There have been corona strains before, remember SARS 10 years ago? Thats when they started developing the corona-vaccins so it isn't as new as those idiots make you believe.

And if you don't understand how mRNA vaccines work , I suggest you read up on it. All injected particles will have left your body within 48 hours. So 48 hours later, your body is exactly as it was before, except your brain gained knowledge on how to fight a specific protein , the "asshole protein" that makes covid infectious.

Because your body then starts to break down this "asshole protein" , covid will die inside your body without its ability to infect more of your cells.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on June 17, 2021, 04:00:07 AM
The Covid Outbreak:
"Biggest Health Scam of the 21st Century."
(https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-covid-outbreak-biggest-health-scam
of-the 21st-century-report-by-1500-health-professionals/5737838)

Report by 1500 Health Professionals
United Health Professionals (UHP)


 :reading:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 17, 2021, 04:27:26 AM
The Covid Outbreak:
"Biggest Health Scam of the 21st Century."
(https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-covid-outbreak-biggest-health-scam
of-the 21st-century-report-by-1500-health-professionals/5737838)

Report by 1500 Health Professionals
United Health Professionals (UHP)


 :reading:

That whole article is false and I dare bet you none of these 1500 so called health-professionals have any relevant medical degree.

I personally know 2 health professionals (1 family) and both of them are tired to fight mis-information like this article.

They will now just 'let them be wrong, and if they die its darwin at work'.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 17, 2021, 06:13:22 AM
Is this whole article false Mark? It seems rather well researched. It seems that the so called global "elites" have been planning a way to harm and then control humanity for at least a decade.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-2020-worldwide-corona-crisis-destroying-civil-society-engineered-economic-depression-global-coup-detat-and-the-great-reset/5730652
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on June 17, 2021, 06:30:12 AM
The Covid Outbreak:
"Biggest Health Scam of the 21st Century."
(https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-covid-outbreak-biggest-health-scam
of-the 21st-century-report-by-1500-health-professionals/5737838)

Report by 1500 Health Professionals
United Health Professionals (UHP)


 :reading:

That whole article is false and I dare bet you none of these 1500 so called health-professionals have any relevant medical degree.

I personally know 2 health professionals (1 family) and both of them are tired to fight mis-information like this article.

They will now just 'let them be wrong, and if they die its darwin at work'.

Mark

Have you read carefully the whole article?

I have spent more than 1 hour reading carefully what it was written and I did not expressed any opinion. Just brought it to your attention.....

I also read a lot of other articles.... for various subjects....... and from time to time I bring then to your attention.

I am getting bored reading all about USA politics on this board.....more pleasant looking the photos of the women......

Ask Texas what is the latest from his state?

Is it true that in Texas you don't need to have a Licence to buy a gun?



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 17, 2021, 07:11:23 AM
Is this whole article false Mark? It seems rather well researched. It seems that the so called global "elites" have been planning a way to harm and then control humanity for at least a decade.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-2020-worldwide-corona-crisis-destroying-civil-society-engineered-economic-depression-global-coup-detat-and-the-great-reset/5730652

Seems being the operative word here. If you ask any serious health professional you know personally (so not some internet nerd you do not know) , then they all tell the same message.

- Get vaccinated,
- Do it quick asap.

In the Netherlands, also personal physicians immediatly corrected patients they recognised.

In my case, prof.dr. wijt is my own personal physician. If I had spouted crap like that, she would have immediatly responded to me and called me out for the garbage it is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on June 17, 2021, 12:13:15 PM
A Small correction on the Link ... after the visit of a small mouse....... for those who may want to read the original article.

The Covid Outbreak: “Biggest Health Scam of the 21st Century.”

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-covid-outbreak-biggest-health-scam-of-the-21st-century-report-by-1500-health-professionals/5737838

Thanks jumping Jack!

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 17, 2021, 07:00:22 PM
German MD discusses how Coronavirus has been overblown by the media and governments.

Quote


“The corona hype is not based on any extraordinary public health danger. However, it causes considerable damage to our freedom and personal rights through frivolous and unjustified quarantine measures and restrictions.”

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 17, 2021, 11:01:22 PM
I now have friend laying in the hospital because of this over blown fake virus. He did not think he needed a shot neither. I hope he survives his careless choice. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 17, 2021, 11:42:44 PM
Netherlands has an extensive children-vaccine program named BMR - DKTP - K , which as you may guess has 3 vaccines, 4 more and 1 to close off for those 8 diseases.
I don't know the english names for all of them so I will name them in Dutch:
Bof
Mazelen
rode hond
Difterie
Kinkhoest
Tering
Polio

All of these diseases get you a vaccin ad very young ages in the netherlands, my sons got vaccinated as early as 3 years old for the DKTP diseases.


Big difference between vaccines that have been studied and tested for dozens of years and are proven compared to experimental vaccines given to the population in a rush. The overwhelming majority of vaccines and medicines never get approval to be used on humans which allow them to make it to the market. There were probably 100 vaccines made for polio before they found one that is safe and effective.

Potentially bad news for mRNA vaccines

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/global-time-bomb-first-case-of-postmortem-study-of-patient-vaccinated-against-sars-cov-2-mrna-found-in-every-organ-of-the-body
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 18, 2021, 02:38:00 AM
Potentially bad news for mRNA vaccines

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/global-time-bomb-first-case-of-postmortem-study-of-patient-vaccinated-against-sars-cov-2-mrna-found-in-every-organ-of-the-body

Whomever wrote that article has no idea what they are talking about. mRNA does not exist long, the longest recorded history so far is 48 hours, which is why the powers-that-be communicate the vaccine 'lives' for 48 hours.

mRNA in itself has no function so your body will degrade/destroy all mRNA , not just the vaccine but also your own mRNA that your body produces. mRNA is basicly a blueprint to build stuff. if stuff is not needed, the blueprint (mRNA) is deleted. when you deliberatly inject mRNA in someone (covid vaccine) , you tell the body to build something (The asshole protein that covid uses to infect cells). Your body quickly realizes neither are needed and destroys both, but retains knowledge of how to destroy them (immunity from covid born).


Now some people may get very ill from the vaccine, but those numbers are few and far between.

But you don't have to believe me, how about reading some real sources from real biology researchers:

https://bionumbers.hms.harvard.edu/bionumber.aspx?s=n&v=3&id=111467

This article talks about "half-life" of mRNA , that is , how much time your body needs to degrade half of the amount of mRNA left in you.

The conclusion is : 2 hours.

so if you begin with 100% of the injection, 2 hours later you have 50% 4 hours later you have 25% , 6 hours later you have 12.5% , guess how much is left after 48 hours.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 18, 2021, 08:22:35 AM
Anatomy of the scamdemic!

https://stateofthenation.co/?p=68511
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 18, 2021, 02:00:34 PM
Potentially bad news for mRNA vaccines

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/global-time-bomb-first-case-of-postmortem-study-of-patient-vaccinated-against-sars-cov-2-mrna-found-in-every-organ-of-the-body

Whomever wrote that article has no idea what they are talking about. mRNA does not exist long, the longest recorded history so far is 48 hours, which is why the powers-that-be communicate the vaccine 'lives' for 48 hours.

mRNA in itself has no function so your body will degrade/destroy all mRNA , not just the vaccine but also your own mRNA that your body produces. mRNA is basicly a blueprint to build stuff. if stuff is not needed, the blueprint (mRNA) is deleted. when you deliberatly inject mRNA in someone (covid vaccine) , you tell the body to build something (The asshole protein that covid uses to infect cells). Your body quickly realizes neither are needed and destroys both, but retains knowledge of how to destroy them (immunity from covid born).


Now some people may get very ill from the vaccine, but those numbers are few and far between.

But you don't have to believe me, how about reading some real sources from real biology researchers:

https://bionumbers.hms.harvard.edu/bionumber.aspx?s=n&v=3&id=111467

This article talks about "half-life" of mRNA , that is , how much time your body needs to degrade half of the amount of mRNA left in you.

The conclusion is : 2 hours.

so if you begin with 100% of the injection, 2 hours later you have 50% 4 hours later you have 25% , 6 hours later you have 12.5% , guess how much is left after 48 hours.

I googled a few words off the article and it comes from an International Journal of Infectious Diseases study. It may be a one time event but as they continue to study people who took the mRNA vaccines, they may find more alarming things.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221003647
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 18, 2021, 02:36:35 PM

More documents leaked. Looks like Moderna and our government was working on a coronavirus vaccine Dec 2019 before China announced the the virus's existence.

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/documents-u-s-gov-t-sent-mrna-coronavirus-vaccine-candidates-to-university-researchers-weeks-before-covid-outbreak-in-china-how-did-they-know-unless-they-caused-it
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 18, 2021, 02:49:31 PM
Yes Billy a number of research places where working on corona virus vaccines because of the possibility that one of these virus would be come a problem one day. This is sar-cov-2 we had a sar-cov-1 some years back that started this research. They had been working on it for years before china announced the disease. It just took minor adjustment to make the vaccine  for sar-cov-1 work on sar-cov-2
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 18, 2021, 03:49:55 PM

I googled a few words off the article and it comes from an International Journal of Infectious Diseases study. It may be a one time event but as they continue to study people who took the mRNA vaccines, they may find more alarming things.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221003647

So, I put in work to explain on a basic level how mRNA works, I quoted harvard.edu (I know, its a small and fairly unknown university in america) and thats the best you can come up with? More people I have not heard of, websites i didn't link or read from before.

Plus everyone I have a personal connection with relating to medicine (my personal doctor, my niece (IC nurse) and a friend.. (Plus did you try and contact Eric of this board? His username was ECR844, he is also a hospital professional) all of them tell me I am right and what you post is rubbish.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 18, 2021, 05:23:21 PM
Yes Billy a number of research places where working on corona virus vaccines because of the possibility that one of these virus would be come a problem one day. This is sar-cov-2 we had a sar-cov-1 some years back that started this research. They had been working on it for years before china announced the disease. It just took minor adjustment to make the vaccine  for sar-cov-1 work on sar-cov-2

I gave you proof on election fraud. Do you have proof of this or making stuff up? They can't create a vaccine for SARS2 unless they have the actual virus in hand first. Even slight variants of SARS2 dilutes the effectiveness of the original vaccine



I googled a few words off the article and it comes from an International Journal of Infectious Diseases study. It may be a one time event but as they continue to study people who took the mRNA vaccines, they may find more alarming things.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221003647

So, I put in work to explain on a basic level how mRNA works, I quoted harvard.edu (I know, its a small and fairly unknown university in america) and thats the best you can come up with? More people I have not heard of, websites i didn't link or read from before.

Plus everyone I have a personal connection with relating to medicine (my personal doctor, my niece (IC nurse) and a friend.. (Plus did you try and contact Eric of this board? His username was ECR844, he is also a hospital professional) all of them tell me I am right and what you post is rubbish.


One of the findings in the study is the deceased man took a vaccine which they confirmed his body triggered an immune response yet the virus was able to infect every organ of his body. Remember those three vaccine experts I posted about here? They claim that experimental vaccines not thoroughly tested can compromise our immune system making us more vulnerable to pathogens that will be able to get past defenses. Translation: Mass depopulation. We have one example in a study. Hopefully this isn't a pattern.



Finnish PM says we are experimenting with humans, telling people vaccines are safe is a fairy tale, and the government may be involved in the crime of genocide.

https://tokentube.net/v/3273793332/COVID-Vaccine-Genocide---ENGLISH-SUBTITLES---Rapsodia-fi


Head of Chinese counter intelligence in America has defected. Don't know if MSM will report this big news. He will be giving up intel on the Wuhan bio weapons program. Maybe Biden will ignore it and trust the WHO investigation. Here are other things he's revealing besides stuff on Hunter's laptop and embarrassing info on our intel community.

Early pathogenic studies of the virus we now know as SARS-CoV-2

Models of predicted COVID-19 spread and damage to the US and the world

Financial records detailing which exact organizations and governments funded the research on SARS-CoV-2 and other biological warfare research

Names of US citizens who provide intel to China

Names of Chinese spies working in the US or attending US universities

Financial records showing US businessmen and public officials who’ve received money from the Chinese government

Details of meetings US government officials had (perhaps unwittingly) with Chinese spies and members of Russia’s SVR

How the Chinese government gained access to a CIA communications system, leading to the death of dozens of Chinese people who were working with the CIA


https://beckernews.com/2-massive-chinese-spy-defects-to-usa-with-dirt-on-hunter-biden-intel-on-wuhan-bioweapons-research-39800/

https://creativedestructionmedia.com/analysis/2021/06/18/chinese-defector-may-finally-bring-down-treasonous-us-deep-state-intelligence-community/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 19, 2021, 03:35:09 AM
Sorry Billy, but again you are uninformed.

There's more than one type of vaccine. So, older vaccine types needed an example of the virus upon which to act. That's because the vaccine was actually a dead/inactive version of the target virus.

The vaccines in common use in the United States are based upon acting against specific parts of a virus. The Antigen is carried on a host virus which can be one of a multitude of viruses dead or alive.

In the second case, the first issue was to perfect the mechanism by which this type of vaccine could be made. The second, and almost certainly easier part was identifying the part of the virus genetic code could be attacked. That took just a matter of a few days after the Chinese successfully modelled the dna from samples.

So, a vaccine of a particular type, in this case a corona virus, can be modelled using existing coronaviruses to test for technique and efficacy.

Because we know that coronaviruses are about the most likley to cross from animal to human it is sensible that preparatory work would have been carried out.

Sorry, I am not a scientist, just a well educated ordinary man. So, I hope that I have been able to simplify this complex topic to a level that you might hope to understand. I sincerely hope that this small explanation gives you a stepping of point for further self education.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 19, 2021, 01:15:07 PM
Court up holds case, Houston hospitals can require employees to be vaccinated. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/court-upholds-houston-hospitals-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-policy-workers-can-refuse-vaccine-but-will-simply-need-to-work-somewhere-else-11623600540
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 19, 2021, 02:34:51 PM
Court up holds case, Houston hospitals can require employees to be vaccinated. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/court-upholds-houston-hospitals-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-policy-workers-can-refuse-vaccine-but-will-simply-need-to-work-somewhere-else-11623600540

That's entirely as it should be and, of course, not unprecedented. Here's a guide from the UK on the topic: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/147882/Green-Book-Chapter-12.pdf

Care staff are free to make their own choices about whether to be immunised or not. It is right that they should have that choice and be free to exercise it.

Of course, choices have consequences and if the choice of the employer is to redeploy or end employment as a result of the choices of the worker, that's perfectly OK. In the USA most states have 'at will' employment making it pretty easy to terminate unsuitable workers.

One might discuss the rights or wrongs of this lack of employee protection but it certainly gives the route by which vaccination of staff can be enforced. From a quick scan, there's only one case in which medical staff were given the right to refuse vaccinations under limited circumstances in one jurisdiction.

This was never a case that the employees were going to win. Their case flies in the face of common sense, the duty of care and the law.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 19, 2021, 03:29:14 PM
There's more than one type of vaccine.


You're missing the point. All vaccines for COVID have one thing in common and that is they are experimental and have not had enough time studied in a lab to verify safety. There's a gamble taking an experimental vaccine. Worst case scenario is mass depopulation of billions of people. Before 2020, it would be illegal to give the public experimental vaccines or drugs. Just because experimental vaccines have been legalized doesn't mean they are just as safe as vaccines or medicines that went through the proper steps to make it to the market.

People should have the right to refuse being part of an ongoing human experiment. Nobody should be forced. Nuremburg Code below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Code#:~:text=The%20Nuremberg%20Code%20(German%3A%20Nürnberger,of%20the%20Second%20World%20War.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 20, 2021, 09:29:47 AM

Here, I'll repost this stuff again. In the link below you will see FDA make statements like this on every vaccine. Even they don't fully understand the risks AND benefits of the experimental vaccine they have given emergency authorization to, yet we got experts here that seem to know they are 100% safe and beneficial.

FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an FDA approved vaccine.

 • The recipient or their caregiver has the option to accept or refuse the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine.

 • The significant known and potential risks and benefits of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine, and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown.

https://www.fda.gov/media/146304/download
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 20, 2021, 10:54:33 AM
All fine Billykins but that has no bearing upon the choice to hire or end the hiring of an employee. The case law now exists.

Try to think about how things are, not how you would like them to be.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 20, 2021, 11:27:56 AM
Andrew, google the word "Appeal". Maybe the lower court judge was afraid to do something that would prevent him from getting appointed to a higher position. Maybe the health care workers didn't have a good enough attorney. Maybe that attorney failed to show the judge FDA and vaccine manufactures documents admitting even they don't know the benefits and risks of the vaccine they are asking people to take and tell caregivers they have the right to refuse the vaccine. There is a chance the cure is worse than the problem. You are part of an experiment. In 5-10 years we may learn you have health problems due to the vaccine and life expectancy decreased 15 years. We may learn females have a harder time to reproduce and more children are born with birth defects.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on June 21, 2021, 05:45:37 AM
There is a chance the cure is worse than the problem. You are part of an experiment.

An "experiment" that has so far been given to millions of people with few issues.

In 5-10 years we may learn you have health problems due to the vaccine and life expectancy decreased 15 years. We may learn females have a harder time to reproduce and more children are born with birth defects.

Anything is possible, but I'd suggest with the best medical and scientific minds in the world having worked on these vaccines, that such an outcome is highly unlikely.

That said, my kids wont be having it any time soon due exactly to that minute risk and the fact that they aren't at risk from the virus itself. I've had it because if it turns out I can't reproduce in 30 years (for example) I doubt I'll care.

Over here people remember the Thalidomide scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal). That is causing some not to have it. Pregnant women especially.

But it seems to me that actual long term risks are likely to be minute to negligible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: sailor291 on June 21, 2021, 05:55:55 AM


Mark

Have you read carefully the whole article?

I have spent more than 1 hour reading carefully what it was written and I did not expressed any opinion. Just brought it to your attention.....

I also read a lot of other articles.... for various subjects....... and from time to time I bring then to your attention.

I am getting bored reading all about USA politics on this board.....more pleasant looking the photos of the women......

Ask Texas what is the latest from his state?

Is it true that in Texas you don't need to have a Licence to buy a gun?
[/quote]

No license has ever been required to buy a gun in Texas.  You have needed one to carry it (concealed or openly), but after September 1 no license will be required to carry one.  If you can legally buy a gun you can carry it.  Going to another state however is a different thing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 21, 2021, 06:56:08 AM
Billy, unlike you I know what I am writing about. And yes, I know what an appeal is. meanwhile, those workers will enjoy the results of their choices as will many more up and down the country. In the end, the appeal process will run out due to lack of interest or funding or the initial judgement will stand because it is a good decision based upon sound principles.

Billy, we are not all as small-minded as you. Some of us already understand a larger picture. Sadly, it is almost impossible to write down far enough to reach every reader and so we get to you, mithering about things you do not understand and that are beyond your ability to understand.

As always Billy, the world is not how you imagine it to be, it is not how you'd like it to be. The world is infinitely more complex than you or I can fully understand. However, some of us are always learning, improving our understanding - some of you, not so much.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 21, 2021, 07:09:39 AM
Andrew, google the word "Appeal". Maybe the lower court judge was afraid to do something that would prevent him from getting appointed to a higher position. Maybe the health care workers didn't have a good enough attorney. Maybe that attorney failed to show the judge FDA and vaccine manufactures documents admitting even they don't know the benefits and risks of the vaccine they are asking people to take and tell caregivers they have the right to refuse the vaccine. There is a chance the cure is worse than the problem. You are part of an experiment. In 5-10 years we may learn you have health problems due to the vaccine and life expectancy decreased 15 years. We may learn females have a harder time to reproduce and more children are born with birth defects.

That is allot of maybe's.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 21, 2021, 08:30:22 AM
This article is about the delta variant of Covid-19. This variant puts more people in hospital and also spreads easier. 

This next comment does not have anything to do with the article but should the government or private insurance have to pay for the medical expenses for people who refused to get the vaccine? I contend this was completely avoidable and they should be on the hook for their own medical expenses. After tens of thousand of people are financially ruined I bet the percentage of vaccinated people in this country will rise a lot. Why should I and all who got vaccinated have to contribute to the care of those who will not?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-delta-variant-appears-to-have-tripled-to-31-of-all-us-coronavirus-cases-in-just-11-days-it-s-more-dangerous-than-other-variants-and-could-imperil-the-country-s-recovery/ar-AALgT7w?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 21, 2021, 09:44:44 AM
texan77: It is a good point that vaccination is an activity undertaken for the social good at least as much as for the individual benefit.

As to whether people who are unvaccinated through choice should pay for their Covid-19 treatment resulting from their anti-social behaviour, I kinda agree in principle but think that as a society it would be a retrograde step and in practice hard to enforce. Also, of course, vaccination is not absolute protection.

Over time, I think that social and practical pressure will tend to increase the numbers of people who get vaccinated over there in the Home of the Brave. It is noticeable how the rate of vaccination is falling as the country runs out of people willing to be vaccinated. Of course, some of them will die as a result of their poor decision making - perhaps that is punishment enough?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 21, 2021, 03:00:12 PM
There is a chance the cure is worse than the problem. You are part of an experiment.

An "experiment" that has so far been given to millions of people with few issues.

In 5-10 years we may learn you have health problems due to the vaccine and life expectancy decreased 15 years. We may learn females have a harder time to reproduce and more children are born with birth defects.

Anything is possible, but I'd suggest with the best medical and scientific minds in the world having worked on these vaccines, that such an outcome is highly unlikely.

That said, my kids wont be having it any time soon due exactly to that minute risk and the fact that they aren't at risk from the virus itself. I've had it because if it turns out I can't reproduce in 30 years (for example) I doubt I'll care.

Over here people remember the Thalidomide scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal). That is causing some not to have it. Pregnant women especially.

But it seems to me that actual long term risks are likely to be minute to negligible.

In 7+ years, the experiment will end and our governments will write a report if the experiment was a success or not. In the meantime, they will ask people in the experiment to take more experimental vaccines.

When the vaccines first came out, the FDA said the benefits outweigh the risks. After more data has come out, they changed their stance and say the risks and benefits of vaccines are unknown. The FDA are the inspectors that check out the scientific communities work and they are expressing more doubt now than previously.

Although the risk may be a low 1% that the vaccines will cause permanent health problems and decrease life expectancy, if this becomes a problem, it will affect billions of lives. We are gambling with billions of lives. We'll know more when the experiment is over.

Most people have healthy immune systems and have almost no chance of dying from COVID. It's irresponsible to give these healthy people a product that can compromise their immune systems. People who receive the vaccine are not told that the benefits and risks of the product going into their bodies are unknown. The government and scientific community also know most people don't read the fine print or have the skill to find it on the FDA's website.  Failing to disclose this information before getting the jab is unethical but that is what our governments and scientific communities are doing in their drive to get 70%+ of the world's population vaccinated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 21, 2021, 06:10:14 PM
This experiment will likely never end. The new version is the delta version and it will be the dominates version in the USA in a few weeks. It causes younger people to have more severe symptoms, increases hospitalizations, and spreads more easy than other versions. Also the antibody therapies do not work well on the delta version. This is a huge loss in the battle to control covid-19 and will likely contribute to a higher death rate in the near future. The vaccines are still effective but somewhat less.  The biggest thing about the delta version it is able to infect people who already had previous version of coniv-19. In a few months we will be dealing with a new version that has not yet been discovered. Who know what it will do but in some way it will be able to infect more people because that what it has to do to replace the old version. We will likely only get a few weeks notice when a version comes out that the vaccine does not work against.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 22, 2021, 07:27:25 PM
This experiment will likely never end. The new version is the delta version and it will be the dominates version in the USA in a few weeks. It causes younger people to have more severe symptoms, increases hospitalizations, and spreads more easy than other versions. Also the antibody therapies do not work well on the delta version. This is a huge loss in the battle to control covid-19 and will likely contribute to a higher death rate in the near future. The vaccines are still effective but somewhat less.  The biggest thing about the delta version it is able to infect people who already had previous version of coniv-19. In a few months we will be dealing with a new version that has not yet been discovered. Who know what it will do but in some way it will be able to infect more people because that what it has to do to replace the old version. We will likely only get a few weeks notice when a version comes out that the vaccine does not work against.


The experiment I was talking about is with the current vaccine. It will end after a certain amount of time. With variants you may have to take additional experimental vaccines. Current vaccines loses efficacy against variants. The three experts I mentioned previously said our immune system can handle the variants as easily as the original virus. I'm sure they'll be asking you to take another experimental vaccine before winter arrives. They aren't announcing it now because they don't want to alarm the public but I know they are currently working on the vaccines.

Two videos in the link below of Dr. Yeadon from England. He graduated top of his class, former VP and Chief Science officer at Pfizer, and started his own biotech company which he later sold for $350 million dollars. He's not some youtube or government hand picked doctor to make statements to fit the narrative. He's well qualified to speak on the matter of vaccines yet mainstream media and government want him silenced. Earlier I posted his remarks that the current vaccines can lead to mass depopulation. He's alarmed at the FDA's approval that children get vaccinated. Currently WHO doesn't recommend children getting vaccinated. Dr. Yeadon says they tested in a strange way and it's not known if the vaccines are truly effective. He feels the vaccines were fraudulently approved for emergency use.

https://citizensoftheamericanrepublic.org/2021/06/09/dr-yeadon-warns-children-50-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-vaccine-than-from-virus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 23, 2021, 01:56:38 AM
Although the risk may be a low 1% that the vaccines will cause permanent health problems and decrease life expectancy, if this becomes a problem, it will affect billions of lives. We are gambling with billions of lives. We'll know more when the experiment is over.
1% means 1 out of 100 vaccinated. You may want to revisit that number because it is WAY too high.

The people that watched the vaccinated and its side-effects so far determined that less than 0.001% of all vaccinated people have serious side-effects, and of those with serious effects, another 0.0001% died (https://ema.eu) so that is, less than covid (5% of all sufferers have serious side effects and 1% died).

Also in the news this week , a man from GB whom was on the intensive care since march 2020 (covid) and decided to take his own life. He has the record of being the longest hospitalized intensive care patient so far.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9102093/IT-worker-49-one-Britains-longest-suffering-Covid-patients-nine-months-hospital.html

And yes, I knew this man as a personal acquaintence , funny isn't it.

As to the vaccine, it creates a whole lot less permanent health problems than Covid itself does. I'll take my chances (in fact, already have with Pfizer vaccinated).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 23, 2021, 02:21:35 AM
Science is not a democracy, but numbers are a dictatorship.

So, just because a huge majority of qualified experts in the field make a claim, based upon their research and knowledge it does not mean that they are correct.
However, if one person makes extraordinary claims about the subject, she'd better have some extraordinary evidence to back up those claims.

Here, in the case of vaccination there is no extraordinary evidence to countervailing the current best understanding of the subject.

Numbers gained through honest counting (research) are dictators because they cannot be overturned. They are the facts that underpin our current reality. They become part of the evidence that creates the plans and activities that we follow.

As we see, people such as Billy, and he is not alone, have difficulty with numbers. His posts continually show that difficulty. When one cannot understand quantities, one is unable to see context. In the mind of some people there is no difference between 1% and 0.0001% and so it is possible to mislead these poor people without reference to truth, to fact.

One thing the covid-19 pandemic has highlighted is the need for better education for the almost 50% who strive at being average, but fail.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 23, 2021, 03:41:03 AM
Quote
Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about.

attrib. David Eddings
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 23, 2021, 04:41:47 AM
Questioning on its own does not help very much. Questioning with purpose, from a basis in knowledge - that helps.

Also, one cannot, in practice, question everything. There's not enough time in the world to question, receive answers, analyse the answers and incorporate new knowledge into a refreshed worldview.

That's why we have experts and we have the concept of trust. Ah, but misplaced trust, that can be a big issue.

For example, I do not need to replicate the extensive testing of covid-19 vaccines because experts who have built years of trust have done that work for me. I also have empirical evidence of people NOT dying following vaccination.

What I do not have is trust in a lone wolf 'expert' without trust and with no evidence making claims that seem unlikely to be true. So, I might question him, if I had access - which I do not. In the meantime, I will await the extraordinary evidence in support of his extraordinary claims. I expect I will wait in vain.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 23, 2021, 07:34:42 AM


https://citizensoftheamericanrepublic.org/2021/06/09/dr-yeadon-warns-children-50-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-vaccine-than-from-virus/

Yea https://citizensoftheamericanrepublic.org/ with a picture of Steve Bannon who thinks we would of saved lives by taking quinine and that developing a vaccine was a scam. Countries that tried that found out quickly it total did not work. Trump tried that and it did not work here also. I do not think I would believe anything these guys wrote.

My friend got out of the hospital with his second case of covid-19. He is doing much better. He did not think much about covid-19 before now. He said, he had this an eye opening experience where he felt he nearly died.

In the Philippines the president is so concern about the country not getting the vaccine he has threaten to jail people who refuse to get vaccine. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/06/22/philippines-president-duterte-threatens-to-jail-people-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=4e8d8cb163e8

Why don't you try to find a real source for some of this stuff.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 23, 2021, 07:54:45 AM
Normally I do not comment regarding personal/family matters, but my daughter in Uni has contracted the Delta variant. She is doing poorly with two days of 98.4 ~ 98.8 fever and a miserable cough. Still though at the house she shares with other students. They were going to vacate the house on the 30th.

She was five days away from getting her first inoculation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 23, 2021, 08:12:25 AM
That's sad news.

In the UK the Delta variant is now the predominant version. She is young, she is likely to be just fine. But it is a warning that none of us is immortal.

Even if young people are less likely to be infected and/or become ill, ultimately they will be the targets of the virus. Most of the cases will be young people and most of the deaths will be among young people. That's how infections and maths work.

Are her housemates self isolating or still going about the business infecting others?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 23, 2021, 08:30:03 AM
That's sad news.

In the UK the Delta variant is now the predominant version. She is young, she is likely to be just fine. But it is a warning that none of us is immortal.

Even if young people are less likely to be infected and/or become ill, ultimately they will be the targets of the virus. Most of the cases will be young people and most of the deaths will be among young people. That's how infections and maths work.

Are her housemates self isolating or still going about the business infecting others?

The house all started to self isolate, as much as that is possible. Three of the eight have returned home with negative tests. Three others have found new self isolation locations and my daughter and the other room mate are still in the place with an extension of the let. Her mother is a doctor and would strongly prefer that she remains where she is.

The odd thing when she was in Austria and Germany she was also very sick over 18 months ago and she now thinks she had an earlier variant of COVID.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 23, 2021, 09:12:37 AM
Sounds fairly sensible.

I'm thinking that daily tests rather than a fixed period of house arrest is the better way to go from here on out. Both for travellers (from most areas) and within the country.

I'm sure that she will be fine and might join the group produced as 'evidence' that Covid is no worse than the flu.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 23, 2021, 09:34:20 AM
Sorry to hear the news as well, AvHdB.  No matter how minor the aliment, it is always different when it affects our own children. Fingers crossed here for a speedy and full recovery.

I had a very bad bout of a respiratory bug shortly before COVID went wild. IIRC Jan/Feb 2020. Took about a week to pass, along with occasional O2.  A few months later, an antibody test showed nothing, but I still wonder.  Testing for T-cells that 'remember' the virus long after antibodies have worn off is not routine, so who knows.

Our family is now vaccinated with BioNTech and Sputnik V, except for my youngest son. Was hoping he could get it during their visit to RU, but didn't happen.  Still a few months shy of 18.  Syringe is waiting for his return.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2021, 09:55:57 AM
Although the risk may be a low 1% that the vaccines will cause permanent health problems and decrease life expectancy, if this becomes a problem, it will affect billions of lives. We are gambling with billions of lives. We'll know more when the experiment is over.
1% means 1 out of 100 vaccinated. You may want to revisit that number because it is WAY too high.


I'm not talking about 1 out of 100 vaccinated may get health problems. I'm talking about there's maybe a low chance of 1% there will be a mass depopulation event affecting most or all people who took vaccines that compromised their immune systems. Three top experts in vaccines said this can happen to healthy people due to experimental vaccines. How do they know this can happen? Because they've injected experimental vaccines in animals on many occasions. The overwhelming majority of vaccines and drugs never make it to the market.

Dr. Yeadon said we don't need experimental vaccines. We have lots of good anti viral treatments from medicine that has been on the market for years and proven safe. If someone has a weak immune system, the treatments will help them recover significantly reducing the chances of them dying.




https://citizensoftheamericanrepublic.org/2021/06/09/dr-yeadon-warns-children-50-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-vaccine-than-from-virus/

Yea https://citizensoftheamericanrepublic.org/ with a picture of Steve Bannon who thinks we would of saved lives by taking quinine and that developing a vaccine was a scam.

Why don't you try to find a real source for some of this stuff.


Okie dokie! Character assassinate the interviewer and his website. Can you dispute anything Dr. Yeadon said?


one cannot, in practice, question everything.


When a authority such as the FDA concludes after reviewing ALL research that risks and benefits of vaccines are unknown, you shouldn't question it but you are when you try and validate the reasons you took a vaccine and when you promote it. You point out to studies that say taking a vaccines is safe and effective. Don't you think the FDA seen that too yet concluded risks and benefits are unknown?

Before the FDA made revisions on the paperwork, they said "the benefits outweigh the risks". As more studies come out, they are less confident and removed that statement and replaced it with "the benefits and risks are unknown." In a few years they may replace that statement with "WE F'd up. Warning, do not take experimental vaccines for obvious reasons."

Almost everybody in the world has a wonderful thing called the immune system that will prevent them from dying of COVID. I don't want to compromise my immune system with a vaccine they can't guarantee safe. They removed the right to sue vaccine manufactures. That should tell you the lack of confidence they have in the product. Bring back the right to sue and lets see if they'll keep their products on the market.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 23, 2021, 10:34:10 AM
https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download

Dated 10 May 2021

(http://i.postimg.cc/SRf4z0Ds/Screen-Shot-2021-06-20-at-20-58-17.png)

You already saw this, so a bit surprised you'd bring it up again, and again.  Posting over and over doesn't change the facts.  The FDA position is exactly as shown above and in the document.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 23, 2021, 11:55:13 AM
https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download

Dated 10 May 2021

(http://i.postimg.cc/SRf4z0Ds/Screen-Shot-2021-06-20-at-20-58-17.png)

You already saw this, so a bit surprised you'd bring it up again, and again.  Posting over and over doesn't change the facts.  The FDA position is exactly as shown above and in the document.

The FDA is not in business to actually protect and serve the civilian population, they are in business to serve their benefactors which are big Pharm drug companies.

There has always been a very cozy relationship since many drug company executives go on to become Directors and other officers at the FDA.

When AIDS happened there was an inexpensive treatment available which had already been tested and Fauci did his best to discourage people from taking it so he could promote a very expensive and toxic drug.

Quote

“AIDS physicians, following the lead of Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, were already using Bactrim effectively to prevent the recurrence of PCP. The science was clear. A decade before, clinical trials by Dr. Walter Hughes had proven its efficacy in preventing PCP in other immune-compromised populations, like children with leukemia.”
“Fauci refused to acknowledge the evidence and, according to one account, even encouraged people with AIDS to stop taking treatments, like Bactrim, that weren’t specifically approved for use in people with AIDS.”

Additional Quote

"Dr. Anthony Fauci is rewriting history. He is doing so to disguise his shameful role in delaying promotion of an AIDS treatment that would have prevented tens of thousands of deaths in the first years of the epidemic.

In my book, Body Counts, A Memoir of Politics, Sex, AIDS, and Survival, I recount how slow the federal government was in publicizing the use of Bactrim and other sulfa drugs to prevent PCP (the pneumonia that was then the leading killer of people with AIDS) in addition to its long-time and well-known use to treat PCP."


https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4762295/amp?__twitter_impression=true


https://www.reddit.com/r/ivermectin/comments/o3d9xq/faucis_refused_to_recommend_cheap_existing_drug/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 23, 2021, 11:55:47 AM
 BC, Billy, like many of his ilk find it hard to learn. Changing a worldview is tough and leads to cognitive dissonance which just makes them angry and frustrated. It is easier, as we often see with Billy to maintain an unrealistic worldview that flies in the face of facts.

It's not really possible to persuade such people. That's why, in some cases and certain situations they must be told what they are going to do. Of course, when that happens they moan about their freedumbs.

It is sad, it makes me unhappy that there are so many like Billy.

I'll be honest, if I saw reasonable evidence to suggest what Billy believes was true then I'd change my worldview. If there was any basis to the idea that these vaccines presented a danger greater than the virus I'd support the poor decision making that they exhibit. But there isn't. So the poor souls like Billy get no sympathy whatsoever from me. No matter what the issue might be.

In other days, people like Billy would probably have died as a result of their poor choices. Modern, advanced, societies tend to protect these poor folks and they survive to breed and create generations of semi literate, unthinkers who continue to make poor choices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2021, 12:31:34 PM
https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download

Dated 10 May 2021

(http://i.postimg.cc/SRf4z0Ds/Screen-Shot-2021-06-20-at-20-58-17.png)

You already saw this, so a bit surprised you'd bring it up again, and again.  Posting over and over doesn't change the facts.  The FDA position is exactly as shown above and in the document.

It's a letter dated May 10, 202 written from one person to another person. It includes info you underlined in red from Dec 11, 2021. The FDA has since changed their stance from "the benefits outweigh the risks" to "risks and benefits are unknown". Trust the science. It's clear the risks and benefits of the experimental vaccine are unknown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 23, 2021, 12:47:49 PM
What, if anything, changed between 10 May 2021, the date of the EUA in the link above and today? Do tell.

I'm patient, wanna go through it all again?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 23, 2021, 12:55:45 PM
Sins of Omission. An excellent article delves into how drug companies operate.
https://www.spin.com/featured/aids-and-the-azt-scandal-spin-1989-feature-sins-of-omission/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 23, 2021, 12:57:33 PM

The FDA is not in business to actually protect and serve the civilian population, they are in business to serve their benefactors which are big Pharm drug companies.

There has always been a very cozy relationship since many drug company executives go on to become Directors and other officers at the FDA.

When AIDS happened there was an inexpensive treatment available which had already been tested and Fauci did his best to discourage people from taking it so he could promote a very expensive and toxic drug.

Quote

“AIDS physicians, following the lead of Dr. Joseph Sonnabend, were already using Bactrim effectively to prevent the recurrence of PCP. The science was clear. A decade before, clinical trials by Dr. Walter Hughes had proven its efficacy in preventing PCP in other immune-compromised populations, like children with leukemia.”
“Fauci refused to acknowledge the evidence and, according to one account, even encouraged people with AIDS to stop taking treatments, like Bactrim, that weren’t specifically approved for use in people with AIDS.”

Additional Quote

"Dr. Anthony Fauci is rewriting history. He is doing so to disguise his shameful role in delaying promotion of an AIDS treatment that would have prevented tens of thousands of deaths in the first years of the epidemic.


Let me see if I get this. Since Dr. Fauci was slow in bringing a drug to be used in the 1980's and supposedly killed a number of aids patient that means you guys should be slow in getting people vaccinated so you can kill thousands of people today.  I'm I missing something here?

Billy, It is on Bannon site. With his reputation, I do not even know if this guy is a doctor or not. For every doctor that feels like him and can find a bunch who disagree. I read the link dated May 10 2021 and did not see anything like what you wrote any where on it. 

AvHdB I hope you daughter a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on June 23, 2021, 01:07:22 PM
Av, I hope your daughter is doing ok and gets better soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 23, 2021, 01:08:24 PM
If one reviews FDA guidelines for issuing Emergency Use Authorizations, you'll find requirements are:

Quote
Based on the totality of scientific evidence available, including data from adequate and
well-controlled trials, if available, it is reasonable to believe that the product may be
effective to prevent, diagnose, or treat such serious or life-threatening disease or
condition that can be caused by SARS-CoV-2,
or to mitigate a serious or life-threatening
disease or condition caused by an FDA-regulated product used to diagnose, treat, or
prevent a disease or condition caused by SARS-CoV-2.

The known and potential benefits of the product, when used to diagnose, prevent, or
treat the identified serious or life-threatening disease or condition, outweigh the known
and potential risks of the product.

https://www.fda.gov/media/149935/download

dated 10 June 2021  1.3.3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 24, 2021, 04:30:23 AM
BC, Billy, like many of his ilk find it hard to learn. Changing a worldview is tough and leads to cognitive dissonance which just makes them angry and frustrated. It is easier, as we often see with Billy to maintain an unrealistic worldview that flies in the face of facts.

Oh, I don't believe BillyB is dim, or incapable of learning.  His mind is closed, most likely due to pride and desire to try weaseling some obscure technical win however untenable, or reset the timeline to infinity hoping for more favorable winds.  A foxhole dug too deep comes to mind, ignoring those who offer a ladder.  Slowly but surely his hole is filling faster than he can shovel on multiple discourse fronts.

It is indeed sad when someone prays for the worst upon others, when the only goal is self-justification on obscure internet fora.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 24, 2021, 06:40:44 AM
Yeah, to be honest, while I do not think Billy is especially bright, I doubt that he is far from average, either higher or lower.

The real issue is with learning and the way that people like him, whether smarter or otherwise, handle new data in the context of their initial uninformed opinion.

Billy is not the sole exemplar of the trait on this forum he's just the most noisy.

I just wish there was an easily applied or learned strategy to help these people. I mean, can you imagine how it must be to deal in person with Billy when he's in the midst of a days-long bout of anger caused by his cognitive dissonance?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 24, 2021, 07:08:54 AM
Yeah, to be honest, while I do not think Billy is especially bright, I doubt that he is
I just wish there was and or learned strategy to help these people. I mean, can you imagine how it must be to deal in person with Billy when he's in the midst of a days-long bout of anger caused by his cognitive dissonance?

There above is a money making opportunity

 :evilgrin0002: :laugh:

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 24, 2021, 07:41:26 AM
I do not think enough money exists to persuade me to undertake the task of either helping the Billys to improve their lot or interceding during bouts of anger and frustration.

I'm too old for all that sh!t!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 24, 2021, 09:23:03 AM
BC, Billy, like many of his ilk find it hard to learn. Changing a worldview is tough and leads to cognitive dissonance which just makes them angry and frustrated. It is easier, as we often see with Billy to maintain an unrealistic worldview that flies in the face of facts.

Oh, I don't believe BillyB is dim, or incapable of learning.  His mind is closed, most likely due to pride and desire to try weaseling some obscure technical win however untenable, or reset the timeline to infinity hoping for more favorable winds.  A foxhole dug too deep comes to mind, ignoring those who offer a ladder.  Slowly but surely his hole is filling faster than he can shovel on multiple discourse fronts.

It is indeed sad when someone prays for the worst upon others, when the only goal is self-justification on obscure internet fora.

Show us exactly where Billy has been praying for the worst upon others? It's really quite the opposite, he and I have been sounding the alarm that things may not be as TPTB claim they are and that experimental vaccines are indeed experimental and have long term consequences.

In fact myself and Faux Pas have been saying from day one that things don't add up, when the legacy media, who are controlled and paid for by big drug companies, have mocked and ridiculed inexpensive yet highly effective treatments such as Hydroxychloroquin and Ivermectin.

You've got some nerve to make such a bold claim, after it was you who last summer continued to deny the true nature of the BLM and Antifa movements. It wasn't your business or home which got burned down in a large city, or threatened, so why should you care?

You remain the typical smug uncaring "liberal" who denies simple truth and tries to deceive others with your regressive version of politics.

Such as, let's denounce the Civil Rights act of 1964 and label all whites as "oppressors" based upon their skin color. Let's denounce MLK, which is what the Biden administration and by extension you, are really doing.

Let's continue to try to silence scientists and genuine Medical Doctors who don't go along with the Covid narrative, in favor of puppets who are bought and paid for.

You say that Billy's "mind is closed, most likely due to pride and weaseling some obscure technical win".

Indeed. Pot Kettle Black.

Go ahead, keep on with your lies, obfuscations and ignorance of obvious truths. Typical.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 24, 2021, 11:49:36 AM
Contrarian,

I guess it depends on who adds up what.

In my book, 2+2=4

I have absolutely no qualms with your opinion, even those you express above.  If you don't like my opinion, you can take or leave it as well.  If OTOH you repeatedly insist on misrepresenting facts as BillyB does regarding what the FDA says, or not, expect to have your maths and logic proofed. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2021, 04:36:25 PM
Billy, It is on Bannon site. With his reputation, I do not even know if this guy is a doctor or not. For every doctor that feels like him and can find a bunch who disagree. I read the link dated May 10 2021 and did not see anything like what you wrote any where on it. 


So what if it's on Bannon's site. Focus on the the guy I'm talking about. Dr. Yeadon is from England. He graduated top of his class, former VP and Chief Science officer at Pfizer, and started his own biotech company which he later sold for $350 million dollars. You can Google that. He's more than a doctor, he was in charge of a team of doctors at Pfizer and founder of a $350 million dollar biotech company. You've been promoting the vaccine like the others here and you guys don't have a clue about the effectiveness and risks of the product. Even after all the studies come out, the FDA says the benefits and risks are unknown. Don't you want to dig into the truth since you participated in an experiment that could end tragically? I don't care if Dr. Yeadon is on Bannon's show, your media refuses to talk to him because they have an agenda to censor intelligent people who sounds the alarms on experimental vaccines. The agenda is to get as much people vaccinated as possible even though we have adequate treatments available that reduces people's chances to die to nearly 0%. There is no risk from those treatments to cause a mass depopulation event like what could happen from an experimental vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 24, 2021, 04:51:56 PM
The president of Brazil wanted solutions that did not involved a vaccine. Why did he not go there and solve their problems as they would loved to have him.  The non vaccine therapies they tried there did not work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2021, 05:40:19 PM

Tex, the world experienced less than 4 million deaths in 18 months of COVID. The world will perform nearly 60 million abortions in that same time frame. Don't repeat marketing slogans you heard about vaccines. Based on your own expertise after hearing BOTH sides of the fence of experts, can you guarantee there will not be a mass depopulation event that kills billions of people? The FDA better stick with their "risks and benefits are unknown" stance since it's possible the cure is worse than COVID. Time will tell. Like I said earlier, it may take 7 years before we learn how this experiment ends and while we wait, you will participate in new experiments to handle the variants.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 24, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
Contrarian,

I guess it depends on who adds up what.

In my book, 2+2=4

I have absolutely no qualms with your opinion, even those you express above.  If you don't like my opinion, you can take or leave it as well.  If OTOH you repeatedly insist on misrepresenting facts as BillyB does regarding what the FDA says, or not, expect to have your maths and logic proofed.

If you believe that Billy is misrepresenting facts then it's open game for you to state that and to do your best to prove it.

However I have yet to see where Billy is praying for the worst upon others. We all have strong opinions about this topic, let's try to be a little more civil about it and that includes me.

I like reading the variety of posts on this site, even if you believe it's an obscure internet fora.  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2021, 07:26:55 PM
Contrarian,

I guess it depends on who adds up what.

In my book, 2+2=4

I have absolutely no qualms with your opinion, even those you express above.  If you don't like my opinion, you can take or leave it as well.  If OTOH you repeatedly insist on misrepresenting facts as BillyB does regarding what the FDA says, or not, expect to have your maths and logic proofed.

If you believe that Billy is misrepresenting facts then it's open game for you to state that and to do your best to prove it.

However I have yet to see where Billy is praying for the worst upon others. We all have strong opinions about this topic, let's try to be a little more civil about it and that includes me.

I like reading the variety of posts on this site, even if you believe it's an obscure internet fora.  :)

I'll make the claim that 2+2=4 is in my book too. I just showed the FDA Factsheet for Recipients and Caregivers of the COVID vaccine claim the risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown. Trust the science! It's entertaining watching people dispute that in an attempt to validate their reasons for taking the vaccine. Nobody wants to give the impression they were duped and didn't read the small print. People want to feel good about taking the vaccine so they repeat marketing slogans and point to fake news media articles showing studies favoring experimental vaccines but it doesn't change the fact risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 25, 2021, 02:17:06 AM
BillyB,

You are neither comprehending nor understanding the context what is written in the source document you used to justify your statements that the FDA position is that risks and benefits of vaccines are unknown.

Here is your source https://www.fda.gov/media/146304/download I am adding an image below, so you have the full context.  Please focus on the words "and the extent to which".  This does not mean what you think it means.  What this statement does mean is that the persons giving the vaccine MUST communicate "significant known and potential risks and benefits" that are listed on page 3 of the RECIPIENTS AND CAREGIVERS fact sheet, and the extent to which any are unknown. Stuff like you may get sore or red at the injection site, headaches, muscle aches etc. etc. along with "These may not be all the possible side effects" as stated at the top of page 4.

(https://i.postimg.cc/j5pTHdjb/Screen-Shot-2021-06-25-at-09-39-26.png)

Furthermore, this FACT SHEET FOR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ADMINISTERING VACCINE for the Janssen vaccine says to provide those receiving the vaccine information consistent with the FACT SHEET FOR RECIPIENTS AND CAREGIVERS

Which states:

(https://i.postimg.cc/6pnvny59/Screen-Shot-2021-06-25-at-09-57-06.png)

If anyone here has better command of the English language than I do, please feel free to correct me.  I am neither a linguist, nor consider myself expert in the English language.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 25, 2021, 05:45:29 AM
BC, you are spot-on.

I find myself wondering the degree to which problems exhibited by people such as Billy and Confederate/Contrarian are due to an inability to understand what they read or are dishonest attempts to mislead themselves and others.

My sense is that many of these people do have a genuine problem with reading. We know that the average reading level in the United States is equivalent to grade 7 or 8 and that tells us that a very large proportion of the population struggles with grade 6. The texts you shared are, in my estimation, at a somewhat higher level - but I have not checked them. On that basis, we should not be surprised that people on this forum have difficulty understanding the texts upon which they rely for their misinformation.

Confusion seems to lead, in many people, to their first 'understanding' becoming entrenched because it becomes a matter of pride - after all, who wants to be seen as a dumbass? Brighter folks are more open to learning and changing worldview because they understand that learning is a continuous process both within society and individually.

TL/DR you cant teach Billy (or Contrarian) because they are both already trying to operate past their limitations.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 25, 2021, 08:20:51 AM
Andrew I have thought about this a lot. These guys really believe this stuff. They are not slow but they want to believe so much they only see what they want. Few religions have such faithful followers as the cult of Trumpism. Trying to convince someone their religion is wrong is very difficult. How could of their god lose an election?

I am really thankful these guys show up and have the privilege to write them as it is a piece of understanding the world we live. Here I call it Trumpism but there seems to be right wing movements in many countries that are similar but I think this movement is more pronounce in the USA than in most places.  I know Brazil has a movement like it and their president has a number of similar traits to Trump. 

The disbelief in the vaccine is part of Trumpism. This vaccine is their mark of the beast.  If you take it you will have to spend all eternity in a socialist country in the after life run by BLM supporters.  ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on June 25, 2021, 08:51:10 AM
BC, you are spot-on.

I find myself wondering the degree to which problems exhibited by people such as Billy are due to an inability to understand what they read or are dishonest attempts to mislead themselves and others.

My sense is that many of these people do have a genuine problem with reading. We know that the average reading level in the United States is equivalent to grade 7 or 8 and that tells us that a very large proportion of the population struggles with grade 6. The texts you shared are, in my estimation, at a somewhat higher level - but I have not checked them. On that basis, we should not be surprised that people on this forum have difficulty understanding the texts upon which they rely for their misinformation.

Confusion seems to lead, in many people, to their first 'understanding' becoming entrenched because it becomes a matter of pride - after all, who wants to be seen as a dumbass? Brighter folks are more open to learning and changing worldview because they understand that learning is a continuous process both within society and individually.

TL/DR you cant teach Billy because he is already trying to operate past his limitations.

FTFY, please leave me out of this discussion. I don't deny what the FDA says and BC said what it says.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 25, 2021, 09:10:30 AM
BillyB,

You are neither comprehending nor understanding the context what is written in the source document you used to justify your statements that the FDA position is that risks and benefits of vaccines are unknown.

Here is your source https://www.fda.gov/media/146304/download I am adding an image below, so you have the full context.  Please focus on the words "and the extent to which".  This does not mean what you think it means.  What this statement does mean is that the persons giving the vaccine MUST communicate "significant known and potential risks and benefits" that are listed on page 3 of the RECIPIENTS AND CAREGIVERS fact sheet, and the extent to which any are unknown. Stuff like you may get sore or red at the injection site, headaches, muscle aches etc. etc. along with "These may not be all the possible side effects" as stated at the top of page 4.

(https://i.postimg.cc/j5pTHdjb/Screen-Shot-2021-06-25-at-09-39-26.png)


People getting the shot don't get educated properly and they rarely, if ever, read the fine print. I doubt any of you smart folks did. The marketing to get you to take the shot got you to think you knew all about vaccines.

The sore and red at the injection site and headaches etc.. you talk about are known. The SIGNIFICANT known and potential risks of vaccines and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown. You guys can't get it through your thick skulls. Under normal conditions, the vaccines in your body would be in a lab animal getting tested before getting approval 7-10 years from now. You have taken an EXPERIMENTAL vaccine that is NOT approved by the FDA to be used on humans. What part of that English you don't understand? You guys are test subjects in an experiment. I hope it ends well. Trying to claim the product you took is perfectly fine is foolish. Come back after 7 years and tell me about it. If you disagree with the vaccine experts who says mass depopulation of the human species is possible due to experimental vaccines since they've seen it happen to lab animals, lets discuss your expertise vs theirs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 25, 2021, 10:38:22 AM

People getting the shot don't get educated properly and they rarely, if ever, read the fine print. I doubt any of you smart folks did. The marketing to get you to take the shot got you to think you knew all about vaccines.

The sore and red at the injection site and headaches etc.. you talk about are known. The SIGNIFICANT known and potential risks of vaccines and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown. You guys can't get it through your thick skulls. Under normal conditions, the vaccines in your body would be in a lab animal getting tested before getting approval 7-10 years from now. You have taken an EXPERIMENTAL vaccine that is NOT approved by the FDA to be used on humans. What part of that English you don't understand? You guys are test subjects in an experiment. I hope it ends well. Trying to claim the product you took is perfectly fine is foolish. Come back after 7 years and tell me about it. If you disagree with the vaccine experts who says mass depopulation of the human species is possible due to experimental vaccines since they've seen it happen to lab animals, lets discuss your expertise vs theirs.

BillyB,

Your opinion above only serves to obfuscate the premise of our discussion, which is what the FDA says about the vaccine; that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine.  This is now fully documented, proofed and settled.  Further utterances to the contrary are solely due to your inability to comprehend what FDA has written, or as you put it, 'thick skull'.

Regarding education, I already stated that not complying with requirements to inform folks as is dictated in the fact sheets would be wrong.  I was provided this information along with the opportunity to ask any question I wished regarding the vaccine.  This is my experience.  You have none.  Feel free to sign up for the vaccine, see if they properly inform you and if not you can, and should bring any lapses to the attention of the professionals on site.  Like anyone else, after having been informed, you can exercise your right and refuse the injection.  Until then, you are only loudly outgassing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on June 26, 2021, 02:24:30 AM
Billy, if you read the fine print about cars, you wouldn't drive.
Or planes, boats, bicycles, etc, etc.
Everything has some level of risk.

Yes most vaccines take 6-10 years to develop.
If you reserach the vaccine you would also realize
no vacine had as many companies or as much money thrown at it
in history as covid 19 vaccine. Is there risk, sure, but walking down the
sidewalk has risk. You have chosen, now your just beating a  :dh: :dh: :dh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 26, 2021, 02:28:05 PM
NS1,

what many don't seem to appreciate is that the vaccines being injected today follows decades of research and studies to understand the technology and use it for various purposes.  It's not just the result of governments started throwing money at the vaccines. 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

We'll likely see mRNA fighting many more illnesses in the near future.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 26, 2021, 04:14:01 PM
Billy, if you read the fine print about cars, you wouldn't drive.
Or planes, boats, bicycles, etc, etc.
Everything has some level of risk.


Everybody who reads the fine print on cars drive. The significant risks and benefits of driving are known unlike Covid vaccines where a mass population event can happen.


Yes most vaccines take 6-10 years to develop.
If you reserach the vaccine you would also realize
no vacine had as many companies or as much money thrown at it
in history as covid 19 vaccine.


I said this numerous times and I'll say it again. Money doesn't replace time. It may take 5 years before we see people with major health problems caused by the vaccine.


In other news....UK government health report. Pay attention to pages 13 and 14. 7200 people with two doses of vaccines got the Delta variant and 50 of those people died. 53,800 unvaccinated people got the Delta variant and 44 people died. 13,700 people with one dose of vaccine got the Delta variant and 19 people died. Do the math. People with less or no vaccine have a higher chance of surviving the Delta variant. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996740/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf


Israel has the highest percentage of their population vaccinated yet they are getting ill from another virus as if they were in Winter. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-be-over-but-viral-infections-in-israel-are-surging-671354
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 26, 2021, 11:57:13 PM

In other news....UK government health report. Pay attention to pages 13 and 14. 7200 people with two doses of vaccines got the Delta variant and 50 of those people died. 53,800 unvaccinated people got the Delta variant and 44 people died. 13,700 people with one dose of vaccine got the Delta variant and 19 people died. Do the math. People with less or no vaccine have a higher chance of surviving the Delta variant. Remember what those three vaccine experts said? The experimental vaccine may compromise a healthy immune system making us more likely to get sick and/or die which can lead to a mass depopulation event.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996740/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf


BillyB,

Your proven ability to mangle words and language is only surpassed by your ability to misinterpret the data presented.

Your ASSessment of the data provided in the report is, to put it bluntly, completely wrong.

Should you have any doubt as to my assertion, please do contact the authors of the report, or a competent statistical analyst.  In consideration of your difficulty comprehending the written word, I'm not even going to try and attempt to guide you through even more complex issues.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2021, 12:04:05 AM

Don't be shy, enlighten us with your interpretation of the data. Insults aren't going to convince people you're right and I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 27, 2021, 12:23:43 AM

Don't be shy, enlighten us with your interpretation of the data. Insults aren't going to convince people you're right and I'm wrong.

Nope. You made the assertion of fact. It's your turn to do your homework.

I will give you a tip though, start on page 38 "Monitoring of vaccine effectiveness" and test your extraordinary hypothesis using simple logic.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2021, 12:43:00 AM
I'm not talking about vaccine effectiveness and I can admit vaccines are effective against COVID. I can admit benefits but it seems you can't admit risks.

2+2=4 right? Go to pages 13 and 14 and use the numbers there to try and convince everybody vaccinated people aren't dying at a higher rate than those vaccinated. It's not happening the way you want so you're visibly upset. You want to believe the stuff you injected into your body is great stuff so you reject anything bad said, even if it came from top experts in the industry.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 27, 2021, 02:21:09 AM
BillyB

Just for entertainment purposes:

Of 8475 over 50 that tested positive for the Delta variant that had contact with the ER:
7499 vaccinated people over 50
976 unvaccinated people over 50

109 over 50 and vaccinated died 1.45%
38 unvaccinated died 3.89%


For 72539 under 50 that tested positive for the Delta variant

19693 vaccinated under 50
52846 unvaccinated under 50

2 vaccinated died .01%
6 unvaccinated died .01%

Now of course you'll certainly find some other excuse, but barring any gross error in my calculations you'll have to contact the authors of the report to validate your hypothesis.  Their full contact information is on the last page of the report.  Since the report was not intended to assess vaccine safety, the manner in which I have assessed the raw data may not be representative, and is only used for the purposes of example which you *might* understand.  My intent is not to misuse data, as you clearly do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 27, 2021, 02:43:23 AM
Billy, we get it, you can't do maths, not even the simple kind. But try this thought experiment. No maths required.

1) ask yourself if you're smarter than almost everyone else in your society.
Assuming that you're like most people you'll say that you're 'a bit smarter than average'

2) if you're a bit smarter than average how come the millions of people in your country who you accept are smarter than you are unable to do the maths that you do?

Is it just possible, Billy, that you're wrong? That the millions of people who are smarter than you got the sums right and you didn't?

You see Billy, the only other option is that you're the smartest person in the USA and only you are able to see through this con trick.
But, here's the thing Billy, you're not the smartest man in the USA and you know it.

So, the logic suggests that your interpretation of public documents published by people who, unlike you, are experts in their respective fields, is incorrect.

Think it through, ask for help. I'm sure that someone will be willing to at least try to help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2021, 12:46:51 PM

A lot of hot air from Andrew and no math. Here' you go

Over 92,000 people were included in the Delta variant data. 11,000 were unlinked

53,822 were unvaccinated and 44 died. for a ratio of 1 out of 1223 unvaccinated people died from the delta variant.

13,715 people had one dose of the vaccine for more than 21 days and still got infected by the Delta variant and 17 people died. 1 out of 807 people died although got one jab. Notice survival rate significantly goes up if the vaccine was in the body for less than 21 days?

7235 people had two doses of the vaccine and still got infected by the Delta variant and 50 people died. 1 out of 145 people are dying.


It's a no brainer which category I want to be in to live. If the ratios were reversed, you guys would be celebrating the vaccine although you're trying to rationalize the current numbers favor vaccines. Early date shows people vaccines may compromise healthy immune systems and people are more likely to die from the Delta variant. This does not include data from people dying just from the vaccine. What about future pathogens like influenza and bacterial infections the COVID vaccine has no efficacy on like it does the Delta variant? A compromised immune system means people are more likely to die from any pathogen that enters their body from now till the day they die.

How do we know what the efficacy rate of the vaccines are? What they tell you and what the truth is are two different things. The experts I mention upthread said it's too early to tell. Healthy peoples own immune system survival rate is going over 99% now yet we give credit to the vaccines for saving them?

The three experts I mentioned upthread said there could be a mass depopulation event due to the vaccines which could cost billions of lives. Don't blame me for that revelation. They probably own stock and are losing money saying what they're saying but they seem to genuinely care about humanity.

One guy is an ex VP of Pfizer, graduated top of his class, and started a biotech company that he turned around and sold for $350 million. Another guy is an ex senior project manager for epidemics for the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and the last guy is a French Nobel Peace Prize winner in vaccines.

How many people promoting vaccines and who work at the FDA can hold a candle to those three guys? They are all leaders in their field of work and they are sounding off the alarm vaccinating healthy people with experimental vaccines is stupid, especially when we were able to beat all modern day epidemics and pandemics using other strategies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2021, 01:38:32 PM

Andrew, and anybody that's curious. You don't have to trust my math based off the UK's data from the Delta variant. Video below shows your news reporting people who took a vaccine are dying from the Delta variant nearly 2 to 1 over those who are unvaccinated.

https://t.me/TommyRobinsonNews/21036
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on June 27, 2021, 02:07:01 PM

Andrew, and anybody that's curious. You don't have to trust my math based off the UK's data from the Delta variant. Video below shows your news reporting people who took a vaccine are dying from the Delta variant nearly 2 to 1 over those who are unvaccinated.

https://t.me/TommyRobinsonNews/21036

I don't necessarily trust the news reporting, just the very narrow sample-set.

a few 10.000 people is nothing when evaluating vaccines. Thats exactly why Sputnik wasn't approved at first, because of their sample-set in 'only' 10k people
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 27, 2021, 02:29:31 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on June 27, 2021, 02:38:32 PM
Good link BC. It explains in simple language what is going on.

The people who were at most risk of dying from infection before are still at most risk of dying - given that vaccines are not 100% effective.

If it were not for the Delta variant then we would have expected to continue to see a rise in relative numbers of younger people dying from Covid-19. That was the trend until the Delta variant became the predominant strain.

Oh, while I don't trust Poor Billy's maths - he can't count. The issue here is that he cannot think either. A wicked combination of disabilities. One must feel sorry for people like him and, as I have done before, I offer my help to him to try to explain stuff before he makes a twat of himself. Just ask a question before you post it Billy.

Mark, as the sample size has grown the picture has changed. Only a few weeks ago, most of the deaths from the Delta variant were among people who had either not been vaccinated or had received only the first dose.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57441677
However, the pattern was inevitable given the rise of the Delta variant. I'd expect a different pattern in places with significantly lower vaccination rates than the UK.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2021, 02:52:39 PM

Andrew, and anybody that's curious. You don't have to trust my math based off the UK's data from the Delta variant. Video below shows your news reporting people who took a vaccine are dying from the Delta variant nearly 2 to 1 over those who are unvaccinated.

https://t.me/TommyRobinsonNews/21036

I don't necessarily trust the news reporting, just the very narrow sample-set.

a few 10.000 people is nothing when evaluating vaccines. Thats exactly why Sputnik wasn't approved at first, because of their sample-set in 'only' 10k people

They had the results of over 92,000 people in their evaluation.


https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

Nice spin BC. Enjoy your next experimental vaccine coming out before Winter. If unvaccinated people were dying from the Delta variant 2 to 1 over vaccinated people, the media wouldn't need to put a spin on it and you can say "See BillyB! Vaccines are working great!"

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 27, 2021, 06:48:25 PM
Billy the average vaccinated person it much older than the average age of the unvaccinated person. Some older people are immune compromised and the vaccine only stimulates the immune system and does not work without it. Older people are more likely to die from Cov-19 than younger people anyway. The article did explain it very well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 27, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
Nice spin BC. Enjoy your next experimental vaccine coming out before Winter. If unvaccinated people were dying from the Delta variant 2 to 1 over vaccinated people, the media wouldn't need to put a spin on it and you can say "See BillyB! Vaccines are working great!"

No media spin here.  The authors are not from the media news pool.  Consider the article as authoritative as the report you are relying on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2021, 10:28:10 PM
Billy the average vaccinated person it much older than the average age of the unvaccinated person. Some older people are immune compromised and the vaccine only stimulates the immune system and does not work without it. Older people are more likely to die from Cov-19 than younger people anyway. The article did explain it very well.

I don't need the article. I gave you the data. The current fact is people who taken the jab are more likely to die compared to those who are unvaccinated. Even those young people will get old one day and if they have compromised immunity systems, their life expectancy will decrease which is great for governments who have to pay out pensions.

The real worry for vaccinated people comes later. The current vaccine helps beat the Delta variant but it won't fight influenza and other pathogens. We'll probably know after Winter whether those vaccinated with the COVID vaccine are dying off at higher rates when getting flus and other illnesses. You're basically a guinea pig in an experiment that injected you with a product that is not approved for use on humans and the results will be revealed later. I'm not going to repeat the media, big pharma, and government selling points like most here are doing. I'm providing info from top scientists on the other side of the fence who have nothing to gain financially. Take what they have to say seriously or take your next experimental vaccine before Winter. I choose to wait and see how the experiment ends before taking a vaccine. I'm not anti vaccine. I take a flu shot every few years and I would take a COVID shot if I was in the age bracket that has a 20% chance to die from COVID.


Nice spin BC. Enjoy your next experimental vaccine coming out before Winter. If unvaccinated people were dying from the Delta variant 2 to 1 over vaccinated people, the media wouldn't need to put a spin on it and you can say "See BillyB! Vaccines are working great!"

No media spin here.  The authors are not from the media news pool.  Consider the article as authoritative as the report you are relying on.

Very intelligent people got you and many other people to believe there is no widespread election fraud. Although they aren't simple journalists, they can still have agendas and use their expertise as leverage to get you to believe what they want you to believe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on June 28, 2021, 01:37:13 AM
Very intelligent people got you and many other people to believe there is no widespread election fraud. Although they aren't simple journalists, they can still have agendas and use their expertise as leverage to get you to believe what they want you to believe.

As your opinion, that's fine, remaining your problem and not mine, BillyB

Hey that rhymes...  I'll have to whip a few chords together and strum a tune out of it!

You might want to reflect on your statement about those that have "agendas and use their expertise as leverage to get you to believe what they want you to believe"
I've been wondering exactly that about you.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on June 28, 2021, 10:17:33 AM

Even those young people will get old one day and if they have compromised immunity systems, their life expectancy will decrease which is great for governments who have to pay out pensions.


The idea that the USA government is trying to kill me is nothing short of horribly inaccurate. I get Medicare and have insurance that is low priced. I get VA befits nearly free. I really can not complain about what the USA government is doing to prolong my life. The vaccine that was made available to me for a diseases that effect old people the most. You just have an agenda to not like the vaccine and you have an agenda that no matter what you will not learn anything. You know there are still scientist with big degrees who think Noa's ark and a world flood happened when it surely did not. This is you looking for some odd ball person who create this stuff about effecting the immune system when it does not beyond make it response to covid-19 earlier for a short time. You thinking about Trumpism is a cult religion not a matter science.  Yes Trump get a large crowd to show up of very excited supporters but so did Jim Jones. Still the majority do not want him as president and for good reason.

Please know these Vaccines was made available by Donald J. Trump and it was best thing he did as president. If he had not done that the election would not of even been close.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on June 28, 2021, 01:02:30 PM
You thinking about Trumpism is a cult religion not a matter science.  Yes Trump get a large crowd to show up of very excited supporters but so did Jim Jones. Still the majority do not want him as president and for good reason.

Please know these Vaccines was made available by Donald J. Trump and it was best thing he did as president. If he had not done that the election would not of even been close.

Tex for the goal.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 01, 2021, 03:52:28 PM
Russian beach empty this summer. Vaccination proof required to check into hotels and to be on beach.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-miami-is-empty-heaven-as-anti-vaxxers-steer-clear/ar-AALEwVA?ocid=msedgntp

Starting from July 1, authorities begin to demand vaccine certificates from visitors in the region and by August 1 only vaccinated tourists will be allowed to check into local hotels and health resorts. This emergency measure is necessary to slow down the new wave of the pandemic, authorities say.

Hotels have informed aviation companies that they will not check in any flight attendants and pilots without PCR tests or vaccination certificates. That is going to cause a 50 percent cut in all flights to the Russian Black Sea resorts, news agencies reported on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on July 03, 2021, 05:38:17 AM
Sochi has been packed with tourists since companies allowed their employees to work remotely last year. Many have been there for months, and prices for accommodations have skyrocketed because of that, if you can even get a reservation to begin with.

I tried to schedule a trip in May, but decided against it because of availability and price, e.g. 20000 ru. a night for a 3-star hotel in Роза Хутор that normally you can get for 3000 ru.

The local businesses have been killing it for months and many Russians are purposely staying away because of the crowds and prices.

My friends who have been there tell me the place is packed with Russians from all over Russia who can work remotely.

So sorry Tex, your wish for Russia to fail in any way is just more negative MSM spin to delight Russophobes like yourself and give you a moment of glee in your belief that it's actually true. As usual, the article has a dash of truth to supposedly justify the spin.

Yes, starting August 1 you'll need to be vaccinated or have some other acceptable documentation to travel to Sochi/Crimea, but Moscow has already seen a ten-fold increase in the daily number of vaccinations since the Mayor mandated vaccines for all employers/employees a couple of weeks ago.

I am currently looking for the best option to get vaccinated as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 03, 2021, 07:15:06 AM
That was in May. I have no idea what is happening but the article say flight to Russia will be decreases in near future to one half because of crews now having vaccinations anf starting in July people have to have a vacation card to be on the beach or to stay in hotel because of virus rebound. Do you have any more current info? How is the vaccination program doing in Russia? The delta variant is hitting many countries. How is Russia doing?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 04, 2021, 08:58:14 PM


LinkedIn, owned by big tech Microsoft, bans account of Dr. Robert Malone who invented mRNA technology after he warns of COVID shot. It's not what the government wants us to hear.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/linkedin-deletes-account-of-mrna-vaccine-pioneer-who-issued-warning-about-risks_3884669.html


World's smartest man says the vaccines could cause mass depopulation

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/worlds-smartest-man-with-210-iq-urges-resistance-to-covid-vax-depopulation-agenda/


Government official trying to fool us by getting a fake jab.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/24655


More government officials think we're stupid.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/24186


I know many of you embrace the current narrative vaccines are safe and don't want to hear what the other side of the fence has to say but you need to realize the people putting out the current narrative are very deceptive. Video below of Representative Jim Jordan going through Fauci's emails. Talk between him and experts at first was the virus came out of a lab. Next discussions emails heavily redacted including entire pages. Then Fauci and friends all say the virus came from an animal. While Trump and Pompeo was telling the truth last year, propaganda media ridiculed them and claimed they don't listen to scientists. Fauci and friends stayed silent. This isn't only an American problem. WHO and the rest of the world's scientists stayed silent when the studies showed the virus came from a lab. Instead they pointed out to Chinese Communist govt. approved studies that were manipulated to get people to believe the virus came from an animal. All these 'experts' deceive us for no good reason. They deceive us on this virus just like they deceive us on global warming. Scientists will say what the politicians want them to say otherwise they don't get funded.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 05, 2021, 01:04:37 AM
Still peddling your conspiracy spew, I see…

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-belgium/fact-check-video-does-not-show-the-belgian-health-minister-faking-his-covid-19-jab-idUSL1N2M03AU
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 05, 2021, 01:49:50 AM
One has to ask how gullible these easily led limp brains are.

While the billies of the world might conceive of a hoax so poorly fashioned that a syringe without a needle would be used, the rest of us know that if a hoax were being carried out that it is inconceivable that such an error might be allowed to happen.

In such cases, such accusations, what we're actually seeing is projection. The billies are dumb enough that this is the type of error they can envisage being possible. The kind of error they'd expect to make. Thus they project their shortcomings onto others, it makes the billies of the world ripe for exploitation.

Sadly, thus process of projection even removes the ability of these handicapped people to be curious, sceptical enough to question the stories that they fall for.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 05, 2021, 09:47:37 AM
Still peddling your conspiracy spew, I see…

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-belgium/fact-check-video-does-not-show-the-belgian-health-minister-faking-his-covid-19-jab-idUSL1N2M03AU

Propaganda media fact check I see. What does propaganda media say about the government officials quickly putting on mask after they realize the cameras are on them? What does propaganda media say when G7 leaders socially distanced themselves and wore masks for a photo shoot but later seen embracing and speaking inches away from each other including with the Queen of England. At her age she has to be at extremely high risk of death if she got COVID. What about the Fauci emails that show the scientific community saying the virus has all the markers of being made in a lab and then announcing to the world that it was natural? What does propaganda media say about that? Oh, they were involved in that propaganda! You and the Andrews of the world think your politicians and scientists are completely innocent and can't deceive which proves propaganda media works.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 05, 2021, 10:44:36 AM
Hey Billy. Nice to have you back. Anyway here is something you will agree with. Biden requested a report whether the virus came for a lab or not. Well he is getting his answer and it is not the one he was looking for. The reason I feel this is interesting these Doctors were hired by democrats to prove the opposite and surely would not say this because for some political reason.

These two scientist testify before congress why the virus came from the lab. They go into why the thought of this was circulation a long time before it was discovered is not real possibility. They also say this Virus was generically engineered to attacked humans and give reasons why they came to that conclusion. One is the gnome was 99.5 per cent optimized for Humans from day one something that has never happened before.

Virtually no chance the virus did not come from the lab and no chance it is natural. Look at the video. It is very compelling.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 05, 2021, 10:58:05 AM

Thanks for the video Tex but Biden already said he will accept a report from WHO. It might be the opposite of what's in that video. What is disappointing is that the data on the virus was available to all scientists last year but the majority of the scientists and media decided to lie to the world about the virus's origins and silence the scientists and Trump who wanted to tell the truth. Don't blame me for having a huge mistrust in our leaders and scientific community. They are to blame. They expect people to just give them trust when they should be earning it. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I won't be fooled twice and will question every claim they make about the virus and vaccines. They aren't to be trusted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on July 06, 2021, 04:03:36 AM
That was in May. I have no idea what is happening but the article say flight to Russia will be decreases in near future to one half because of crews now having vaccinations anf starting in July people have to have a vacation card to be on the beach or to stay in hotel because of virus rebound. Do you have any more current info? How is the vaccination program doing in Russia? The delta variant is hitting many countries. How is Russia doing?
Overall, I think Russia is doing ok even though it has been reported that cases have increased because of the new Delta variant.

Mandatory vaccinations for the workforce have become commonplace, but only bars and restaurants are affected by the new rules requiring a QR-code. It's not strictly enforced at the moment and of course some places "grease" the police to allow them to stay open past the 11pm curfew.

The QR-code seems to have some glitches when it comes to foreigners. IOW, not everyone gets put into the system. And while the vaccine is free for Russians, it's a minimum $80 for foreigners, which has cause some concern for migrant workers (they have since lowered the fee to 1300 rubles for migrants, but they only offer the Sputnik Light 1-dose vaccine).

The joke is that the government is using the migrant population as an experiment for this vaccine. :P

It's being reported that 90% of new cases are Delta and hospitals are running close to capacity. I have my doubts though.

Life, at least for the moment, is quite normal. You still have a large percentage of Russians who don't trust the vaccine. I talked to a dev at the gym yesterday who's dead set against the jab and she's certainly not alone. Kinda of interesting considering Sputnik V is IMO, the one vaccine whose technology has been around the longest and scientists have a pretty good idea about the probability of future side effects.

To say that Russians don't trust their government would be a huge understatement.

Speaking of which, the Russian government is currently working with top EU officials to have Sputnik V recognised to allow for travel and such. A recent Lancet report has given Sputnik a 91% effectiveness rating which should help. It's all about money of course.

For some reason, which I haven't quite wrapped my head around, I keep thinking things will improve and restrictions will be lifted. But I'm starting to believe that the government will clamp down as we head into autumn in order to get the "numbers" to a satisfactory level so Russia looks good on the world stage.

I love Moscow in the summer. Not just because the weather is nice, but many people head out of town, or stay at their dachas till school starts Sept. 1. This means less traffic, fewer people to deal with, and all the other good things that happen when you have a mass exodus.

It really is much different here compared to other big cities is this regard.

Nevertheless, it's hard to gauge what the reality is here when 3-5 million leave town. September will be interesting.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 06, 2021, 05:34:49 AM
Still peddling your conspiracy spew, I see…

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-belgium/fact-check-video-does-not-show-the-belgian-health-minister-faking-his-covid-19-jab-idUSL1N2M03AU

Propaganda media fact check I see. What does propaganda media say about the government officials quickly putting on mask after they realize the cameras are on them? What does propaganda media say when G7 leaders socially distanced themselves and wore masks for a photo shoot but later seen embracing and speaking inches away from each other including with the Queen of England. At her age she has to be at extremely high risk of death if she got COVID. What about the Fauci emails that show the scientific community saying the virus has all the markers of being made in a lab and then announcing to the world that it was natural? What does propaganda media say about that? Oh, they were involved in that propaganda! You and the Andrews of the world think your politicians and scientists are completely innocent and can't deceive which proves propaganda media works.

All whataboutery, and nothing more.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 06, 2021, 05:37:59 AM
Some tidbits below.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/561585-fauci-more-than-99-of-people-who-died-from-covid-19-in-june-were-not vaccinated

(https://i.postimg.cc/6Q7t7CWV/Screen-Shot-2021-07-06-at-13-13-30.png)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm

Good idea to get flu and maybe even pneumonia vaccinations this year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 06, 2021, 05:41:40 AM
I have personally thought about buying Sputnik (full price) if the NL haven't started mass-injections yet.

However, since I will have both pfizer-shots before leaving NL, this point is moot now.

I think its sad, that governments have lied about stuff simply to get everyone on board or for other reasons that now people won't trust their own gov't anymore.

For example Netherlands:
March 2020 -> Mouth masks do not work, so we will not make them mandatory

August 2020 -> Mouth masks DO work, we said not earlier because production wasn't upto spec yet and making them mandatory was impossible.

Now, I trust the accuracy of the reasoning behind it, however most Dutchies still distrust the mouth masks and will come up with silly reasons why the gov't was right the first time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 06, 2021, 06:22:52 AM
Boris said all restrictions in the UK to end on July 19th.  :thumbsup:

No more bubbles, facemasks, restrictions on business and schools. We are open again.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/covid-boris-johnson-sets-out-plans-for-freedom-day-lifting-of-englands-lockdown/110486
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 06, 2021, 09:22:17 AM
Looks like 26th July is going to be freedom day for most travel, for doubly vaccinated people; subject only to restrictions on incoming travel elsewhere in the world.

I'm looking forward to that.

From what's been said, that decision seems to have been made. The delay in making the full announcement seems to be the details - testing yes/no, how many tests, that kind of thing.

It'll boil the piss of the selfish and misled people who have chosen not to vaccinate themselves. But we live in a free(ish) society where we can make our own choices and accept the consequences of those choices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 06, 2021, 09:41:45 AM
I'd heard a whisper it was going to be announced when the press was still speculating. Then a few days ago we got a business rates bill which wasn't zero anymore so it was obvious restrictions on businesses were going as they wouldn't have got rid of the zero exemption while there were still to be restrictions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 06, 2021, 09:50:41 AM
I think its sad, that governments have lied about stuff simply to get everyone on board or for other reasons that now people won't trust their own gov't anymore.

For example Netherlands:
March 2020 -> Mouth masks do not work, so we will not make them mandatory

August 2020 -> Mouth masks DO work, we said not earlier because production wasn't upto spec yet and making them mandatory was impossible.


I can forgive that lie and even defended Fauci. At the beginning of the pandemic, people didn't know much about the virus and they would've bought up all the limited masks when medical personnel needed them first.

Other lies are unforgivable such as the virus wasn't human to human transferable which slowed our reaction time and the origin of the virus. These lies weren't accidental. They were done on purpose and with that knowledge, we begin to understand what our governments and scientific communities are capable of. They got the media to ridicule anybody that told the truth.


Boris said all restrictions in the UK to end on July 19th.  :thumbsup:

No more bubbles, facemasks, restrictions on business and schools. We are open again.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/covid-boris-johnson-sets-out-plans-for-freedom-day-lifting-of-englands-lockdown/110486

Restrictions lifted in the UK because of the UK people. I don't give credit to the government. I seen the massive crowds in the UK pressuring the government to remove the controls. If it weren't for the actions of the people, there may be more controls added instead of removed.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 06, 2021, 09:55:06 AM
I don't give credit to the government.

The government implemented a superb rollout of vaccines. Probably the best in the world. We got orders in before anyone else so had ample supply before the EU and others. It's only for that reason. The vaccine has broken the link between infections and deaths.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 06, 2021, 10:11:14 AM
I don't give credit to the government.

The government implemented a superb rollout of vaccines. Probably the best in the world. We got orders in before anyone else so had ample supply before the EU and others. It's only for that reason. The vaccine has broken the link between infections and deaths.

I've probably taken 12+ vaccines in my life but I'm not pro COVID vaccine because a lot is still unknown about it since not all safety tests have been completed. Time will tell if the vaccine is a success or have hurt billions of people's immunity systems which in turn will decrease their life span should a virus or bacteria enters the body which is sure to happen. A shorten life span will save the government lots of money when they pay out less pensions.

Younger people with healthy immune systems have almost no chance in dying. Existing therapeutics that previously passed all safety tests are successfully helping those with compromised immune systems infected with COVID giving them almost a 100% chance of surviving an infection. With those therapeutics, there's no risk of compromising healthy people's immune systems. With those therapeutics in existence, there's no reason to be giving out experimental vaccines under 'emergency authorization' anymore but too much money is involved now so they don't want to stop.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 06, 2021, 12:07:56 PM

Big drop in efficacy on the Delta variant according to Israel who has a higher percentage of their population vaccinated than other major nations in the world. The experts I posted about previously say if we let our own immune system beat COVID, our immune system will easily handle variants that are only .3% different than the original virus. There won't be a need for creating all new experimental vaccines for variants.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ministry-data-said-to-show-pfizer-shot-blocks-majority-of-serious-delta-cases/


Dr Yeadon, ex Pfizer VP and chief science officer, goes off on NHS physicians. He says people are being taken advantage of. He's normally calm and mild mannered but he snapped in this interview.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/24860

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 06, 2021, 12:15:18 PM
Big drop in efficacy on the Delta variant according to Israel who has a higher percentage of their population vaccinated than other major nations in the world.

Israel has only 9m people.

We have 34m fully vaccinated.

Our data set is much bigger. The Delta variant is the most prevalent in the UK now. The vaccine works just fine against Delta demonstrated by the fact that the link between infection and death is now broken here. And our death rate is close to zero.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 06, 2021, 12:31:37 PM
I guess what you are saying is the vaccine mRNA is more dangerous than the Chinese made mRNA virus that has already killed millions of people. Last I heard the virus was not FDA approved and it looks like it will be with us for ever.  Everyone will catch it sooner or later if he/she does not stay vaccinated.

At first the mast were in short supply. The Chinese bought up all the supply they could while telling us it did not spread from person to person. If people all wore medical grade mast then medical people would not have any. Then they realize the mistake. That any mask, even non medical grade, reduce the spread of the virus because when you breath out then the mask slow down the air and the virus does not travel so far. So in many cases the mask does not do so much keep the person from getting the virus but rather keep the person from giving the virus to someone else.

Their is so much anti Doctor Fauci propaganda. It is hard to know when he knew something or when he did not. Most likely he was depending on the the Chinese and W.H.O. were telling him bad information to some extent. It is not a lie if he believed it. If Trump won the election there would not be as much anti Dr. Fauci stuff going around. You have to understand the politics of this.

Their is an increasing number of people in the USA who have been reluctant to get the vaccine are beginning to get it now. No not every ones immune system will handle the new variant better. The difference in the two virus is the ability to attack cells in the Human body. Everywhere they do not have vaccines they have a lot more deaths and hospitalizations.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 06, 2021, 12:44:25 PM
The vaccine works just fine against Delta demonstrated by the fact that the link between infection and death is now broken here. And our death rate is close to zero.


That is the narrative the government wants you to believe. Take a look at the link below and observe the data for the UK. Daily cases are skyrocketing compared to last year at this time when a vaccine wasn't used. At this time last year the UK had under 1000 daily cases reported each day and now the UK has around 25,000 daily new cases reported everyday. Remember what those experts said, the vaccines can compromise our immunity systems and make us more likely to get infected by pathogens.

While infections are way up, deaths in the UK are only slightly down compared to last year at this time. Only a few dozen lives per day are being saved by risking the health of 10's of millions of people. Last year there were no vaccines and a learning curve. Since then we've learned to shelter the vulnerable and summer weather prevented the spread so naturally cases went down last year but for some reason with hotter weather and vaccines, cases are going up in the UK this year. Our government may want to give credit to vaccines for the low deaths but that happened last year too without vaccines. A healthy person's immune system can handle COVID just fine 99.9% survival rate but if that person is vaccinated, why are we giving 100% credit to the vaccine for saving their life? Let's review the data again this winter and compare to last winter.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 06, 2021, 05:22:51 PM
Yes we can have shots or lock downs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 06, 2021, 10:40:12 PM
Yes we can have shots or lock downs.

Chart shows rolling into summer deaths are down in years with or without vaccinations. I'd say the sun gets more credit than vaccines. Also, this year we have treatments approved by the FDA as safe to use on those infected with COVID to significantly increase their survival rate. Unfortunately the government doesn't want to give credit to the sun and effective treatments that keep deaths significantly down.

There's a new variant being talked about. "lambda has a mutation known as F490S located in the spike protein's receptor-binding domain (RBD), where the virus first docks onto human cells. A paper published in the July issue of the journal Genomics identified F490S as a likely "vaccine escape mutation" that could both make the virus more infectious and disrupt the ability of vaccine-generated antibodies to recognize the variant."

With the new lambda variant that can escape current vaccines, that translates to lockdowns and masks again until they can create a new experimental vaccine that can handle it. I hope not true but the government is getting armed with data from this new variant they can use to lock people down again.

https://www.livescience.com/lambda-coronavirus-variant.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 07, 2021, 06:01:39 AM
The vaccine works just fine against Delta demonstrated by the fact that the link between infection and death is now broken here. And our death rate is close to zero.


That is the narrative the government wants you to believe. Take a look at the link below and observe the data for the UK. Daily cases are skyrocketing compared to last year at this time when a vaccine wasn't used. At this time last year the UK had under 1000 daily cases reported each day and now the UK has around 25,000 daily new cases reported everyday. Remember what those experts said, the vaccines can compromise our immunity systems and make us more likely to get infected by pathogens.

While infections are way up, deaths in the UK are only slightly down compared to last year at this time. Only a few dozen lives per day are being saved by risking the health of 10's of millions of people. Last year there were no vaccines and a learning curve. Since then we've learned to shelter the vulnerable and summer weather prevented the spread so naturally cases went down last year but for some reason with hotter weather and vaccines, cases are going up in the UK this year. Our government may want to give credit to vaccines for the low deaths but that happened last year too without vaccines. A healthy person's immune system can handle COVID just fine 99.9% survival rate but if that person is vaccinated, why are we giving 100% credit to the vaccine for saving their life? Let's review the data again this winter and compare to last winter.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

You're utterly wrong. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Cases aren't deaths.

There are more cases because there is more testing being done.

There are more cases because many tests are inaccurate and giving false positives.

That there are many deaths being attributed to the virus that are nothing of the sort and still the numbers are low demonstrates the link between cases and deaths is broken. Hence, the vaccine works and that is why all our restrictions are ending soon.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 07, 2021, 06:26:23 AM
Hence, the vaccine works and that is why all our restrictions are ending soon.

In addition, have to remember the Delta variant seems to be more transmissible and virulent, with worse outcomes among those that have not been vaccinated.  What would it be like today without our current vaccine pool, with high efficacy even with this variant and a and large number of vaccinated folks? 

I do expect the current lull in infections to continue until the last months of the year, with infections and deaths mainly among those that have not been vaccinated.  Hopefully, this will prompt many hesitant folks to get the shot and should slow down any new variants that may come about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 07, 2021, 06:59:23 AM
In the UK, the people being infected are overwhelmingly people who are unvaccinated.

By the way, unless you think that the conspiracy over covid-19 extends to your corner pharmacy, doctor's surgery and up to all the world leaders, no matter their political, religious or cultural backgrounds then we can be pretty sure that Covid is real, that vaccinations work and do not kill, as some dullards suggested, more people than the virus.

More cases are being found because more testing is done. The testing does not cause infections, the infections would be there even if there was no testing. The infections are real.

If the numbers we see were due to false positives then the tests would be absolutely useless and we know they are not. Research suggests that with PCR testing there is a false positive rate of about 0.8 -4% with outliers higher and lower. Of course, the lower bound is constrained by zero. That's a bummer for the folks who have a false positive result but the testing per see is doing its job very well in stopping infected people from spreading the lurgey.
A non-scary, easily read article about testing and false positives: https://theconversation.com/why-are-some-covid-test-results-false-positives-and-how-common-are-they-162163

Research in the UK suggested that at least in the survey research carried out in this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7850182/ false positives ran at about 0.5%. As the prevalence falls the likelihood of a false positive rises (maths stuff). The first article was from Australia where prevalence has historically been very low.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 07, 2021, 10:59:22 AM
the vaccine works and that is why all our restrictions are ending soon.


I don't know about the UK, but in America, last year we didn't have vaccines, summer came and many restrictions were lifted. The Delta and Lambda variants will give the government an excuse to apply restrictions. People who are vaccinated will have less protection against those variants compared to those who got COVID and acquired natural immunity. It's best to let the virus run it course so our bodies naturally get used to it.


In addition, have to remember the Delta variant seems to be more transmissible and virulent, with worse outcomes among those that have not been vaccinated.  What would it be like today without our current vaccine pool, with high efficacy even with this variant and a and large number of vaccinated folks? 

I do expect the current lull in infections to continue until the last months of the year, with infections and deaths mainly among those that have not been vaccinated.  Hopefully, this will prompt many hesitant folks to get the shot and should slow down any new variants that may come about.

Current vaccines will lose efficacy on variants but it's a fact, a person who beat COVID with their own immune system will easily beat variants something vaccines can't do. COVID is not a monster killing 10% of the population. Healthy people have almost no chance in dying and if their immune system is allowed to work, they will have an easier time beating COVID and the variants forever. Take a look what this expert says about it.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/25065


In the UK, the people being infected are overwhelmingly people who are unvaccinated.


Those people's immune system will be better prepared to defeat the virus and its variants on round 2 compared to those who allowed the vaccine to do all the work. Take a look at the chart in the link below. Vaccines are known to cause more harm than the virus to healthy people. If the virus was killing just 10% of the healthy population, I'd be on board with the experimental vaccine but we have learned much about the virus and although it should not be ignored, we don't have as much to fear and governments should not be using it as a tool to control population and enriching their pockets with big pharma. Politicians aren't paying for vaccines. We are.

https://t.me/FollowTheData/568




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 07, 2021, 11:07:58 AM
If the numbers we see were due to false positives then the tests would be absolutely useless and we know they are not.

There's manic testing in schools. I opted my daughter out of it as if she tested positive they would send her home for ten days and I'm not paying them to have her sit at home.

In my son's school, the lads had worked out that Red Bull, mint sauce, jam, disinfectant and a variety of other things readily available created positive test results. Ergo, swathes of them were being sent home for ten days at at a time and loving it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 07, 2021, 05:40:02 PM
With governments lifting restrictions, the media is sure talking about variants lately. First the Delta and Lambda variants that are resistant to vaccines, now the Epsilon strain is being revealed to resist vaccines by as much as 70%. It's important the media bombards us with this new info so by being properly educated, we're more likely to comply when the government reapplies restrictions, lockdowns, and administer all new experimental vaccines.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/07/california-epsilon-strain-of-covid-19-could-evade-vaccines-study/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 08, 2021, 03:00:28 AM
With governments lifting restrictions, the media is sure talking about variants lately. First the Delta and Lambda variants that are resistant to vaccines, now the Epsilon strain is being revealed to resist vaccines by as much as 70%. It's important the media bombards us with this new info so by being properly educated, we're more likely to comply when the government reapplies restrictions, lockdowns, and administer all new experimental vaccines.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/07/california-epsilon-strain-of-covid-19-could-evade-vaccines-study/

This virus has been special design to be infect Humans. It will in time have variants that will cause the vaccine to not work. The vaccine is only temporary relief from lock downs. Billy what you do not see is how hideous this virus is.  It does not matter how people build an immunity it will change and infect everyone again. If all the old people get vaccinated it will change an infect young people. When people get immune to it, it will change so it can infect them again.  Billy you are so thinking this is a government conspiracy you do not see it does not matter which government you are talking about the same thing happens. What you are saying all the governments of the world are in on making fake lock downs. Look at what is happening in North Korea. You really think Kim need a virus to have more control over the people?

It is hard to predict the future but this simple virus maybe an end of civilization as we know it. The virus is not natural. It is unlike anything before. No body can predict what the next variant will do. There are no experts because it has never happened before. Their is just educated guesses which maybe or may not be any better than tossing a coin. People like you who continue to think it is a conspiracy to control people are not looking at the real facts and are not helping with this terrible crisis. This is no where near over with. We have an accidently release a weaponized virus that their is no way to be stop. Just temporary control. 

The no vaccine and no lock concept you have does not work. People die and then it mutates and come back so other people die then it mutated and comes back again. You get the picture. This is something out of a science fiction movie where then end of the movie the Human race is pushed to extension. It is just in the movie it happens in a short time where here the process in likely to take decades. The do nothing approach will not work and the vaccine approach may buy us time until we can think of something else. Maybe in years to come, it may fail us too and much of the human race dies off. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 08, 2021, 06:58:37 AM
Manny, the effect you note may be possible with the lateral flow tests using the pregnancy test style indicators but not for PCR tests which are measuring the presence of genetic material directly. Kids playing the twat are not changing the infection rate statistics which as you probably know are based upon confirmed infections and guess how the confirmations are done? Yup, PCR testing.

We know the virus is real and has real effects. If there is any doubt then think about how vaccination has changed the original cause/effect of the virus. We know, because of testing that many thousands of people in the UK are being infected each day. We can see that there is a difference between the people who have been vaccinated and those who have not. We can see that although the infection rate has rocketed up the effect upon hospitalisations and deaths has been small. Part of that effect is because older people and those with comorbidities have been vaccinated - again, showing that the effects are real.

That's why the UK is, finally, starting to open up again even with the huge infection rate. Now, although unstated, it is clear that the government is going for a herd immunity strategy. They may never get all the way there, but we also know that the first areas to have been hit with the Delta variant have now peaked. The virus is running out of hosts in the UK.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on July 08, 2021, 08:09:40 AM
Manny, the effect you note may be possible with the lateral flow tests using the pregnancy test style indicators but not for PCR tests which are measuring the presence of genetic material directly. Kids playing the twat are not changing the infection rate statistics which as you probably know are based upon confirmed infections and guess how the confirmations are done? Yup, PCR testing.

We know the virus is real and has real effects. If there is any doubt then think about how vaccination has changed the original cause/effect of the virus. We know, because of testing that many thousands of people in the UK are being infected each day. We can see that there is a difference between the people who have been vaccinated and those who have not. We can see that although the infection rate has rocketed up the effect upon hospitalisations and deaths has been small. Part of that effect is because older people and those with comorbidities have been vaccinated - again, showing that the effects are real.

That's why the UK is, finally, starting to open up again even with the huge infection rate. Now, although unstated, it is clear that the government is going for a herd immunity strategy. They may never get all the way there, but we also know that the first areas to have been hit with the Delta variant have now peaked. The virus is running out of hosts in the UK.

You're drunk on the bat soup Fifi. Herd immunity will never be attained with the changed immunity systems of the vaccinated
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 08, 2021, 08:21:17 AM
Faux Pas, please read the text you quoted and ask questions about that which, to this point, you clearly do not comprehend.

You chose a good name for yourself. However, I must ask, apart from activation of the immune system against Covid-19 what changes to the immune system did you have in mind?

Please avoid fantasy and unreal points from  your response. I will assume that lack of a reasoned response indicates that you only have fantasy and unreal points to make.

Science and magic are not synonyms.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 08, 2021, 10:38:14 AM

You're drunk on the bat soup Fifi. Herd immunity will never be attained with the changed immunity systems of the vaccinated

It will never be attained with out vaccines neither. People catch the virus just to catch a different strain in a few months latter. I even have a friend that that happened to who caught the virus in January though he was immune because he already had it just to catch it again in May. He never took an vaccine. Few symptoms the first time, in Hospital the second. Maybe dead the third.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 08, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Billy what you do not see is how hideous this virus is.  It does not matter how people build an immunity it will change and infect everyone again. If all the old people get vaccinated it will change an infect young people. When people get immune to it, it will change so it can infect them again. 
 

I've said before we are dealing with the virus of the century and I still maintain that belief and although it's wrecking havoc on our economies, it's not a monster killing 10% of the population.

You are correct that variants are a threat to those who are vaccinated but you haven't been paying attention to the experts I posted about. If we allow our own immune system to beat the virus, it will also easily beat variants which is something vaccines can't do. If we allow the virus to run its course, we don't need to worry about variants since we will have a new and improved immune system but that can't happen if you're letting vaccines do the work your immune system is capable of doing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 08, 2021, 01:25:19 PM
Billy what you do not see is how hideous this virus is.  It does not matter how people build an immunity it will change and infect everyone again. If all the old people get vaccinated it will change an infect young people. When people get immune to it, it will change so it can infect them again. 
 

I've said before we are dealing with the virus of the century and I still maintain that belief and although it's wrecking havoc on our economies, it's not a monster killing 10% of the population.

You are correct that variants are a threat to those who are vaccinated but you haven't been paying attention to the experts I posted about. If we allow our own immune system to beat the virus, it will also easily beat variants which is something vaccines can't do. If we allow the virus to run its course, we don't need to worry about variants since we will have a new and improved immune system but that can't happen if you're letting vaccines do the work your immune system is capable of doing.

From my own experience if will not. The virus just mutates and it infects same people over again. If you kill one per cent of the people than it mutates and again kills one per cent of the people you get ten per cent pretty fast. The politics has over taking the over whole thing. There are really no experts just people with degrees who have opinions often for political reason. I can see the do nothing approach does not work. Complete failure. Countries that have done that either have populations that would follow the rules, lock down or massive numbers of people in hospitals and graves.  Here we are 18 month latter and the virus is only improved in areas where there are vaccines. The
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 08, 2021, 02:00:39 PM
 The site posted my post before I finished the post and would not let me make a modification to it.

From my own experience if will not. The virus just mutates and it infects same people over again. This is a virus that was completely irresponsible to have ever been made. If you kill one per cent of the people than it mutates and again kills one per cent of the people you get ten per cent pretty fast. Just because it does not kill ten percent of the population the first go around does not mean it won't. The politics has over taking the over whole thing. There are really no experts on what the virus will do just people with degrees who have opinions often for political reason. I can see the do nothing approach does not work. Complete failure. Countries that have done that either have populations that would follow the rules, lock down or massive numbers of people in hospitals and graves.  Here we are 18 month latter and the virus is only improved in areas where there are vaccines. The question is how long will that last? Will next summer be better? Part of the reason I did not go to Ukraine this summer is the virus. When I decided that I was sure fall would be better now I am not so sure. Yes it is that the delta variant is able to infect people with the vaccine more and most have no symptoms it is still a problem. This is how the virus will mutate to a form that will resist the vaccine then people will have symptoms of who know how much. Maybe none, maybe death, got some dice that is as good as anybody opinions at this point and they are no politically motivated?

Every time you get sick your immune systems changes to keep you from getting re-infected. The vaccine causes your immune system to respond like you have already been infected. There are many kinds of vaccines which maybe all vaccine will not be made useless at the same time. Maybe the vaccine will continue to work for couple of years and maybe not. Just like I said got dice at least that answer does not have any politics behind it.

North Korea is trying to control the virus without a vaccine. It has been a total failure. Billy just show me some place where it is working. Not a so called expert but some place!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 08, 2021, 06:47:47 PM
North Korea is trying to control the virus without a vaccine. It has been a total failure. Billy just show me some place where it is working. Not a so called expert but some place!!!

I never said vaccines don't work. I've said healthy immune systems work and there's a chance experimental vaccines can compromise the health of billions. Who told you what is going on in North Korea is a failure?



Good news everyone. You won't have to wait this winter for your booster shot. After the media bombards us with scary variants escaping current vaccine protections, big pharma has a quick solution of dishing out booster shots now and are developing an all new experimental vaccine for the Delta variant to jab you with later. See how this works? Help is on the way.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pfizer-seek-us-regulators-covid-19-vaccine-dose-78741533

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pfizer-covid-19-booster-shot-extends-strong-protection-company-says-vaccine-being-updated-to-target-delta-variant/ar-AALVYK3?ocid=msedgntp


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 09, 2021, 03:25:57 AM

I've said before we are dealing with the virus of the century and I still maintain that belief and although it's wrecking havoc on our economies, it's not a monster killing 10% of the population.

Virus of the century, not.  More like decade. SARS in 2002, MERS in 2012, and now COVID 2019, all in the same COVID family.  The next could well come even more quickly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 09, 2021, 05:02:13 AM
If we allow our own immune system to beat the virus, it will also easily beat variants which is something vaccines can't do. If we allow the virus to run its course, we don't need to worry about variants since we will have a new and improved immune system but that can't happen if you're letting vaccines do the work your immune system is capable of doing.

Another aspect you don't consider is that, under your scenario, many would continue protective measures like masks and distancing.  With very, maybe extrordinary high death counts expected, they would run for cover.  Folks would be in survival mode.

So, the option remaining to effectively implement your course of action would be to purposely require, even force everyone to get infected.  This is no different from getting the vaccine, except that fewer people would die getting a shot.  Variants would still abound, and it may end up that such 'natural' protection does not last as long as vaccines.

Bottom line, if you and your family don't want to vaccinate, that is well within your rights.  No one is twisting your arm, and I'll respect your choice, but please stop pushing your 'natural vaccine' upon others ad nauseam.  Learn to respect the decisions of others as well.  I really see no purpose at all for you to continue this vein of discourse.  Repeating yourself over and over, thinking that repetition will change minds won't work.  Then again, maybe you just like 'hearing' yourself, like others look in the mirror for some sense of self-realization or justification.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 09, 2021, 06:15:08 AM
North Korea is trying to control the virus without a vaccine. It has been a total failure.

Where is your source for this claim? They have had various lockdowns but the exact situation there now is unclear. The lockdowns and typhoons have caused a food shortage worsened by the borders being closed.

What's happening there is they had originally arranged some vaccine from the Swiss group (might be Covovax) months ago that distributes stuff like vaccines to poorer countries, but then the US stuck their nose in and there is a situation now where it is claimed NK hasn't submitted all the paperwork they should have done, and they say they have. So they didn't get any. They wont have roll out inspectors that are anything to do with the US in there is why.

So after months of wrangling over that, it seems China is now the chosen partner and they are providing some of their vaccines to NK.

What I found odd is that as NK is on good terms with Russia, why did they not procure some vaccine from there before now. It seems Russia has offered on several occasions (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57759440). 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 09, 2021, 06:44:09 AM
To lighten up the discourse about virus variants...

(https://i.postimg.cc/D0CMRGW5/Screen-Shot-2021-07-09-at-14-43-20.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 09, 2021, 09:44:53 AM

Where is your source for this claim? They have had various lockdowns but the exact situation there now is unclear. The lockdowns and typhoons have caused a food shortage worsened by the borders being closed.

 It seems Russia has offered on several occasions (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57759440).

What is happen inside NK is not completely known. They have been offered vaccine from the west also for sometime now but refuse to fill out the paper work to receive it. They are still claiming they have no cases of the virus and officially do not need it. They ordered border re-enforced, closed it down even more and have caused food shortages. They had a shake up of the government for members of Kin inter circle for being too lax with border security. It seem highly likely they are not doing well if they need to have the border so closed so tight they are having food shortages of this size.   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-refusing-entrance-to-chinese-diplomats-building-guard-posts-along-border/ar-AALVl3r?ocid=msedgntp

This is the worse virus since the 1918 Spanish flu. It is the worse virus in over a century. It is not over yet so we will just have to wait to see how bad it gets.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 09, 2021, 10:17:35 AM


Tex and anybody that took a vaccine, if the government next week gives the green light for the non FDA approved experimental vaccine to be administered as a booster shot and advertises telling people to protect themselves and others by getting it, will you go get it? If by fall, the all new vaccine for the Delta variant comes out and it a two shot program, will you do it? If all new vaccines are created for the other variants, will you take those shots. It's possible the government may approve 5+ jabs of experimental vaccines in less than a year. Are you willing to take as many jabs as the government recommends?


There's a twitter bot putting out mass identical posts on fake accounts saying the government is stupid for lifting restrictions and we should go back into lockdown. They are trying to get the public to happily agree to go back into lockdowns.

https://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/


Study in Chile shows signs the vaccine is allowing the virus to become more vaccine resistant after mutation.

https://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/


Virus of the century, not.  More like decade. SARS in 2002, MERS in 2012, and now COVID 2019, all in the same COVID family.  The next could well come even more quickly.

Although SARS and MERS are more deadly than SARS-COV2, they aren't as transmissible and symptoms of the ill quickly show up allowing us to isolate them quicker. Although deadlier, neither of those two killed near as much people and wreaked havoc on economies as SARS-COV2 did.


Another aspect you don't consider is that, under your scenario, many would continue protective measures like masks and distancing.  With very, maybe extrordinary high death counts expected, they would run for cover.  Folks would be in survival mode.


If the virus runs its course and infects every living human, those will healthy immune systems will most likely to survive and have immunity. We really only need to vaccinate the elderly and those with compromised immune systems and then we can get back to normal life. In America we can't even get to 70% vaccination of the population but we are 100% open and we aren't required to wear masks.


To lighten up the discourse about virus variants...


It's apparent we are going through the Greek alphabet in naming these variants. Delta was bound to be used.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 09, 2021, 12:59:53 PM
You not reading what is really happening. Pfizer has started work on it. They are not getting much government help. WE are likely to behind and it will likely be ready late. It is more likely that people will be dying for many months before it is ready. It will be just a one shot booster which is all that is thought will be needed to include a new variant where there is all ready some immunity.  Why do you constantly think the government is trying to kill everyone? 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 09, 2021, 01:18:04 PM
You not reading what is really happening. Pfizer has started work on it. They are not getting much government help. WE are likely to behind and it will likely be ready late. It is more likely that people will be dying for many months before it is ready. It will be just a one shot booster which is all that is thought will be needed to include a new variant where there is all ready some immunity.  Why do you constantly think the government is trying to kill everyone?

Didn't you read the article? Pfizer is trying to get approval right now. They think their booster shot is ready. If they get approval next week, you going to be the first in line for the jab? Where did I  say the government is trying to kill everyone? Quote me and stop making stuff up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 09, 2021, 01:19:03 PM


Tex and anybody that took a vaccine, if the government next week gives the green light for the non FDA approved experimental vaccine to be administered as a booster shot and advertises telling people to protect themselves and others by getting it, will you go get it? If by fall, the all new vaccine for the Delta variant comes out and it a two shot program, will you do it? If all new vaccines are created for the other variants, will you take those shots. It's possible the government may approve 5+ jabs of experimental vaccines in less than a year. Are you willing to take as many jabs as the government recommends?

Yes.



Quote
https://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/


Study in Chile shows signs the vaccine is allowing the virus to become more vaccine resistant after mutation.

https://trialsitenews.com/university-of-chile-scientists-study-indicates-sinovacs-vaccine-elicits-more-transmissible-potent-variant-called-lambada/

Lambda seems dominant in Peru, who are quite slow with vaccinations.  Do we know if it started in Peru, or its neighbor Chile?

http://www.cbs8.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/lamda-variant-now-a-variant-of-concern-for-who-coronavirus/509-ec7ae541-0eea-406f-a02b-4f48806241ab

We do have a clue.. The variant of concern (VoC) called C.37 or the “Lambda variant,” was probably first identified in Peru about one year ago,  This from the article you linked.

In fact, the article you linked says nothing you infer.   Read it, comprehend what it really says.

Quote
Although SARS and MERS are more deadly than SARS-COV2, they aren't as transmissible and symptoms of the ill quickly show up allowing us to isolate them quicker. Although deadlier, neither of those two killed near as much people and wreaked havoc on economies as SARS-COV2 did.

Changes absolutely nothing I stated.


Quote
If the virus runs its course and infects every living human, those will healthy immune systems will most likely to survive and have immunity. We really only need to vaccinate the elderly and those with compromised immune systems and then we can get back to normal life. In America we can't even get to 70% vaccination of the population but we are 100% open and we aren't required to wear masks.

I and many others will continue to take prudent steps to protect ourselves, despite being fully vaccinated.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 09, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
I and many others will continue to take prudent steps to protect ourselves, despite being fully vaccinated.


You are not fully vaccinated. You're not an expert. It's your opinion. The experts at Pfizer and BioNTech don't think you are fully vaccinated or protected and are actively seeking approval to get you a booster shot for your benefit. Let's see if the government approves it soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 09, 2021, 02:34:41 PM
North Korea is trying to control the virus without a vaccine. It has been a total failure. Billy just show me some place where it is working. Not a so called expert but some place!!!

I never said vaccines don't work. I've said healthy immune systems work and there's a chance experimental vaccines can compromise the health of billions. Who told you what is going on in North Korea is a failure?



Good news everyone. You won't have to wait this winter for your booster shot. After the media bombards us with scary variants escaping current vaccine protections, big pharma has a quick solution of dishing out booster shots now and are developing an all new experimental vaccine for the Delta variant to jab you with later. See how this works? Help is on the way.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pfizer-seek-us-regulators-covid-19-vaccine-dose-78741533

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pfizer-covid-19-booster-shot-extends-strong-protection-company-says-vaccine-being-updated-to-target-delta-variant/ar-AALVYK3?ocid=msedgntp


A booster shot of the COVID-19 vaccine made by Pfizer and BioNTech strongly extends protection, a new study from the companies shows, and they are developing a vaccine targeted directly at the Delta variant, which first arose in India.

Both of your articles do not say what you are claiming. Notice the word "developing" as in start to work on like I said.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 09, 2021, 02:50:40 PM
You are not fully vaccinated. You're not an expert. It's your opinion. The experts at Pfizer and BioNTech don't think you are fully vaccinated or protected and are actively seeking approval to get you a booster shot for your benefit. Let's see if the government approves it soon.

Fully vaccinated is defined as having had both injections, the last more than 14 days ago.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

Quit frothing at the mouth trying to dispute the obvious, in lame attempts to try and score BillyB Happy points only worth something to your self-image.

As teens, we used to say: "Don't be a dickhead."  This is the very first time I have used it as an adult, but it surely still applies to you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 09, 2021, 10:33:59 PM

Not being a dickhead. If the science says you need a booster shot now, follow the science. If the science says you need 5+ experimental vaccines this year, listen to the science. You're pro experimental vaccine so you should be on board with any program they promote.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 10, 2021, 03:48:06 AM
BillyB,

Your MO remains, as always, Deny, Divert, and Discredit. My statement stands, and is correct about being 'fully vaccinated'.

You made your choice, that's fine by me.  I'll make my own choices and that should be fine for you too. 

I did my research, got the vaccine that I am confident fits my needs, and will continue to do so before vaccinating again. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on July 10, 2021, 05:11:43 AM
In a perfect world the decision should be left up to the individual.

Unfortunately, that's doesn't seem to be the direction we're headed globally.

I have decided to postpone getting vaccinated for the time being after talking to my boss. I much prefer to rely on my immune system to handle a virus that just doesn't kill that many healthy people.

250K people die monthly from complications with obesity and nobody seems to give a rats ass because there's much more money in feeding and then treating people who have no respect for their health. If you don't think obesity has collateral damage you would be shortsighted in that assessment.

Yes, Billy can beat things to death (like others here are known to do) but he does make some good points about this particular vaccine. I'm personally more concerned about pumping chemicals into my body than getting COVID.

A couple of weeks ago I contracted something, not sure if it was COVID/Delta variant or just another of many viruses that surround us daily. I had a slight cough and sore throat consistent with COVID, but my cough wasn't a dry cough which makes me think it might have been something else. I also heard it's not uncommon with the Delta strain to have a bit of phlegm.

My symptoms lasted less than 2 days and I was good to go. IOW, I trust my immune system and how I have strengthen it by eating well, exercising, fasting, and most importantly, getting a good night's sleep. I'm very cognizant of what goes into my body to the point that I have long stopped any meds that I took for past ailments (e.g., pepcid AC) that no longer exist, to the point of taking maybe 5 ibuprofen in the last year because of the changes I've made to my daily life.

Food is your best medicine, period. Drugs, including vaccines have been miraculous in many cases, but are unnecessary if you live as nature had intended.

If I'm not vaccinated, I'm restricted from certain activities, and that's where I draw the line. It's veiled mandatory vaccinations IMO. And I can already hear the BS from people stigmatising others that choose not to vaccinate. If you don't think we're headed that way, check out all the "noise" not wearing a mask has generated.

There are 9 new billionaires in the world today and all have connections to pharmaceutical companies. Some people should be vaccinated for sure, but money always blurs the information and drives the narrative, and that is, I believe, at the core of the disconnect.

The squeaky wheel always gets the grease and doing something "for the greater good of humankind" has never ended well when uttered by politicians or those serving them.

That simply asking for more evidence or going against the "establishment" are being easily cast aside as "fake news" or 'conspiracy theories" (or take your pick of names thrown at Billy in this thread (:)) is equally as troubling in my mind (if not more troubling) as is dutifully lining up for anything your thought leaders ask of you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 10, 2021, 05:50:47 AM
Hi Danchik,

Your choice is perfectly acceptable for me.

Can you describe instances where you have been refused entry for lack of vaccination?  IIRC in most all places in EU, a test is also acceptable.

I don't like, for example, having to register with local authorities every time I move in Europe.  But hey, that's something I just have to learn to accept.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on July 10, 2021, 06:44:06 AM
Faux Pas, please read the text you quoted and ask questions about that which, to this point, you clearly do not comprehend.

You chose a good name for yourself. However, I must ask, apart from activation of the immune system against Covid-19 what changes to the immune system did you have in mind?

Please avoid fantasy and unreal points from  your response. I will assume that lack of a reasoned response indicates that you only have fantasy and unreal points to make.

Science and magic are not synonyms.

FiFi, Your problem isn't that you are stupid. No, your problem is just that you know so much that isn't true. Think man, think. I know you can. In March of 2020 they were telling you about a virus that jumped from a bat to a human that is going to kill millions upon millions. "All you have to do is cover your face and survive a lock down. Stand away from everybody a couple of meters." Then they tell you to "line up and get the jab" do this for the safety of others. You line up and get the jab. Although you didn't really do it for the safety of others, you were just scared to death you'd get the dreaded virus

Now months later you're bickering over mutated variants and booster shots. You've convinced yourself this is all in the name of science. The data, data, data still failing to see, understand or comprehend that you have been fooled along with at least half up to this point of the worlds population.

Here's some data for you, life expectancy in Great Britian is 80 years, life expectancy with covid is 82. So, who's dying from covid and why do you champion that cause? How can that possibly be? Over 300 children have died since March of this year from the jab. If you wish to continue to spout data, data, data, look at the data that actually means something. Eventually, you will come to the realization that you have been fooled. In the meantime please do continue to line up for another new jab from the pharmafacists
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on July 10, 2021, 06:58:41 AM
Hi Danchik,

Your choice is perfectly acceptable for me.

Can you describe instances where you have been refused entry for lack of vaccination?  IIRC in most all places in EU, a test is also acceptable.

I don't like, for example, having to register with local authorities every time I move in Europe.  But hey, that's something I just have to learn to accept.
Starbucks and Teremok (blini restaurant) :P. My point though, is that I think it will become more restrictive in the future than just restaurants and cafes. The QR-code system has glitches where some have their info there and others don't.

At this time it's not such an inconvenience, but I think it's moving in that direction.

Part of what I told my boss was as a foreigner who's is thinking about travelling back to America in the near future, and Sputnik V not being recognised in certain parts of the world (based on money IMO), I might have to double vaccinated with Sputnik V and Pizer to be allowed to enter without quarantine. I'm not all that fired up to do this.

I also see a lot of inconsistencies within the rules, e.g., I still have to take 2 PCR tests when I arrived in another country even after being vaccinated, face masks mandatory for school kids even though the CDC guidelines state otherwise, gathering is ok if you riot, etc.. The inconsistencies from day 1 haven't made much sense and they continue.

I think the biggest problem I have with all this is the "hidden" agenda behind this crisis. The saying "never let a good crisis go to waste" certainly comes to mind.

It's not that the virus is fake, the reaction (overreaction?) is worrisome. I frankly don't believe the numbers as well.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 10, 2021, 07:11:19 AM
Over 300 children have died since March of this year from the jab. If you wish to continue to spout data, data, data, look at the data that actually means something. Eventually, you will come to the realization that you have been fooled. In the meantime please do continue to line up for another new jab from the pharmafacists

I wonder FP... this 300 number has been thrown around for a while now.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/29/nejm-inflammation-children-covid19-misc/

Is this what you refer to?  Maybe best to post your source?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 10, 2021, 07:21:27 AM
It's not that the virus is fake, the reaction (overreaction?) is worrisome. I frankly don't believe the numbers as well.

Fair enough.

Glad to hear no great inconvenience thus far, but we have to remember we're still learning a strategy against this and future viruses.  Even the best of plans can have lapses, errors and inconveniences without practical experience.  Take, for example, a squad of newly recruited soldiers. They really don't learn war until they are dropped in the midst of one.  IMO, we are learning a lot from this experience, along with discovering ways to better handle such in the future.  It may well be in my remaining lifetime that such happens again, most certainly my kids' lifetime, and even a much more deadly one. I am confident we will all be better prepared for it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 10, 2021, 08:03:52 AM
Faux Pas, spouting made up numbers to bolster your fantasies does you no favours.

If you have a point to make and want us to believe you then do better than hoping we will share your delusions.

I get it, numbers are hard for many people. Thought is even harder.

But if counting and thinking are not in your skill set then perhaps it is better to leave discussions involving thought and data analysis to those who can do it.

Go ask the people who died due to the virus what they think. Oh whoops, you can't, they're dead. Ask somebody who suffered illness lasting many weeks what he thinks of your betises. Well, I'm here and I don't think much of them.

People, perhaps even you, are alive today because of actions taken by societies around the world. Others, possibly including people you know, have died or suffered significant health effects because people like you thought they knew better than people who really do know some stuff.

In general, when a person with no expertise and even less knowledge tells me that he knows more than those with demonstrated expertise in any field then the self claimed 'expert' starts out with a significant credibility deficit.

If that person also shows a lack of ability to handle data then he is likely to be the recipient of a dose of ssd ridicule.

Faux Pas, consider yourself the object of sad ridicule. Know your limitations and stick within them, it's safer for all of us.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 10, 2021, 09:00:52 AM
Percentage of the World wide population which has received a Covid vaccine currently sits at about 12% and rising. This site also breaks down the percentages for various countries. A very interesting site.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/covid-19-vaccination-tracker/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 10, 2021, 10:12:57 AM
Quote

"President Biden missed his Independence Day target of getting first shots into the arms of 70 percent of American adults. If he wants to convince the vaccine-hesitant to get immunized — especially vaccine-hesitant Republicans — there is a simple way to do so: Give Donald Trump the credit he deserves for the vaccines."


https://www.aei.org/op-eds/if-biden-wants-to-convince-the-vaccine-hesitant-give-trump-credit-for-the-vaccines/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 10, 2021, 02:08:28 PM
Those of you who keep saying "corona isn't that bad" are forgetting 3 facts.

1) Corona is still active despite a massive campaign trying to kill it. The flu has all but dissapeared so Corona must be much worse.

2) Corona's death-ratio is based upon active & sufficient hospital care, look at Italy March '20 to see the numbers when Hospitals get overwhelmed.

3) The mortality numbers aren't the only relevant things of Corona, how about the side effects that can last long and will hospitalize & disrupt you for years to come (and creates new permanent disabled persons who are now astmathic for instance).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 10, 2021, 03:16:17 PM
Markje is this you or is it BC?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 11, 2021, 12:17:32 PM
Those of you who keep saying "corona isn't that bad" are forgetting 3 facts.

1) Corona is still active despite a massive campaign trying to kill it. The flu has all but dissapeared so Corona must be much worse.

Cases of influenza, were of course reduced due to protective measures, isolation, masks, hand washing etc.  I was surprised to see though that roughly half of those that die nowadays from the virus have a combination of influenza and COVID-19, and were not vaccinated.

Quote
2) Corona's death-ratio is based upon active & sufficient hospital care, look at Italy March '20 to see the numbers when Hospitals get overwhelmed.

The health system in Italy was overwhelmed, but considering age demographics and being the first western country hard hit, I wouldn't consider it a healthcare disaster.  After all, deaths per million differ in comparison with the US differs by only 12%.  Considering the warning of events in Italy, I had hoped the US would be able to perform much better, even on par with Germany, but that was not the case with a whopping 52% difference.

Quote
3) The mortality numbers aren't the only relevant things of Corona, how about the side effects that can last long and will hospitalize & disrupt you for years to come (and creates new permanent disabled persons who are now astmathic for instance).

Indeed, factors to consider, albeit unquantified.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 11, 2021, 08:33:58 PM
Markje is this you or is it BC?  :laugh:

The problem with people who want to do nothing about the virus do not have a large circle of friends to draw experiences from and therefore do not know any body who got seriously sick from the virus. This is an example why Contrarian does not have any friends.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 11, 2021, 11:53:30 PM
Quote

"President Biden missed his Independence Day target of getting first shots into the arms of 70 percent of American adults. If he wants to convince the vaccine-hesitant to get immunized — especially vaccine-hesitant Republicans — there is a simple way to do so: Give Donald Trump the credit he deserves for the vaccines."


Biden did, albeit preceding with 'some'.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-receive-covid-19-vaccine-harris-campaigning-georgia-n1251890

IMO There is another simple way, publish a video of Trump and his wife getting the vaccine back in January, as most other world leaders did to help give their citizens and residents confidence.

He could also simply say, "I want every one of my followers to be around in 2024 to vote for me, so go get vaccinated now!"

Instead, he said he didn't want to do a public service commercial by touting that Pfizer is in bed with the FDA, and insinuating that FDA's pause of the J&J was a reason why he did not.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1384322309897527296

Just guessing, I guess he felt there was no 'tit-for-tat' in it for him.  Sounds like a pretty selfish motivation for not doing what is in the interests of our country, or his devout followers, who are now disproportionately paying for his reticence with their lives.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0jT6Dwd5/Screen-Shot-2021-07-12-at-07-56-43.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 12, 2021, 12:05:50 AM
The problem with people who want to do nothing about the virus do not have a large circle of friends to draw experiences from and therefore do not know any body who got seriously sick from the virus. This is an example why Contrarian does not have any friends.

I believe it's more about the lack of leadership of those Contrarian votes for than anything else.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 12, 2021, 12:17:13 AM
Thankfully none of my friends has come down with Covid, then again none of them are as old as someone above...

Why should President Trump tell his supporters to get a vaccine, when around 99% of the population younger than 70 who gets this thing quickly gets over it?

Meanwhile in Cuba they are sick and tired of Communism. Too bad we cannot send our socialists down there and take their freedom fighters instead.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 12, 2021, 02:38:24 AM

Why should President Trump tell his supporters to get a vaccine, when around 99% of the population younger than 70 who gets this thing quickly gets over it?


Those that 'get over it' quickly, are also walking laboratories for variants and transmission to others.  Not one variant has been attributed to the vaccine so far.  When that starts happening on a regular basis, I might re-think.

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work

Another interesting consideration is the possibility of being infected with multiple variants at the same time, maybe adding more vials for the body chemistry set to tinker with.

https://www.businessinsider.com/woman-died-after-contracting-two-coronavirus-strains-at-same-time-2021-7





 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 12, 2021, 02:42:47 AM
Meanwhile in Cuba they are sick and tired of Communism. Too bad we cannot send our socialists down there and take their freedom fighters instead.  :coffeeread:

Pretty good topic for another thread.

A good start might be to drop remaining sanctions so Cubans can find a supportable economic/government balance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 12, 2021, 10:15:17 AM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 12, 2021, 10:19:11 AM
Over 400,000 reports to VAERS of COVID vaccine death, hospitalizations, misarranges, and injuries. Only a fraction of the people actually harmed knows about this site to report anything to it so you can be sure the numbers are much higher. The amount of death caused by the COVID vaccine is higher than all the other vaccines combined for the last 70 years. Of course those vaccines passed all safety tests so it's expected death and injury will be far less than an experimental vaccine.

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on July 12, 2021, 10:33:24 AM
Over 400,000 reports to VAERS of COVID vaccine death, hospitalizations, misarranges, and injuries. Only a fraction of the people actually harmed knows about this site to report anything to it so you can be sure the numbers are much higher. The amount of death caused by the COVID vaccine is higher than all the other vaccines combined for the last 70 years. Of course those vaccines passed all safety tests so it's expected death and injury will be far less than an experimental vaccine.

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

19 year old male with no previous heart issues:

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/covid-full-data/1141993
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 12, 2021, 01:36:11 PM
It is a good thing that even the most remote possibility that a vaccine may have anything to do with a death, or hospitalization, or sore arm, or auto accident, or suicide etc is reported to VAERS to be weeded out, and analyzed for any correlations.

People get sick, and die all the time for many reasons.  Just because a VAERS report is made, doesn't mean the event is attributable to the vaccine. Some may well be, but many not.  I wrote a thank-you note to the Pfizer/BioNTech folks mentioning I only had a sore arm and an evening of chills after the second shot, and it was promptly recorded in the VAERS database. I received a follow-up email within 24 hours and a form for my MD to fill out and return.  To me, that proves they are operating at the level one can consider an abundance of caution.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JzxVG84F/Screen-Shot-2021-07-12-at-21-07-10.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 12, 2021, 01:37:04 PM

19 year old male with no previous heart issues:

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/covid-full-data/1141993

Great to hear he recovered.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 12, 2021, 10:16:41 PM


More documents released showing Fauci gave over $800k to the Wuhan laboratory to fund bat coronaviruses starting in 2014. Of course he tried to sell it to the American public the virus was all natural.

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/fauci-wuhan-826k/


Early last years emails show White House upset American money went to fund dangerous and cruel animal experiments at the Wuhan labratory with basically no oversight from US authorities.

https://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/JW-v-HHS-NIAID-Wuhan-June-2021-00692.pdf
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 13, 2021, 05:46:51 AM
Billy, did you trouble yourself to read those documents to see what the $80k per year was being spent on?

I guess not because you'd not have written what you did.

$80k per year is not so much funding research as buying the right to see documentation and possibly have some say in elements of the research. It is a tiny amount of money. Of course, it is being blown up so that dullards can be misled for political purposes.

As a wordsmith, I appreciated the framing of the work with the use of the words 'cruel and dangerous' without once specifying what the cruelty or danger was. They're just dropped in as emotional cues.

Should the specified research be done?
Assuming that the research carried out conformed with the specifications provided in the documentation released - absolutely.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 13, 2021, 07:48:41 AM
Another POV, and a good one at that.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-27/did-covid-come-from-a-lab-scientist-at-wuhan-institute-speaks-out
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 13, 2021, 08:21:47 AM
BC, sadly that link is paywalled. It could be the most interesting article in the world, but I will never know. :)

For followers of curiosity, this link might work better, it links to Google's cache for the article, which is an interesting read.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ApQubJ2DeCMJ:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-27/did-covid-come-from-a-lab-scientist-at-wuhan-institute-speaks-out+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

By the way, the point of view of the scientist in the piece is pretty much what you might expect to see - once one sets aside hysteria, obfuscation and political weaponisation of fact. There are some counterfactual nods to propagandised orthodoxy, but those are editorial input, not from Dr Anderson. It is hard to imagine that the article could have been published without the inclusion of the obvious and necessary propaganda points.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 13, 2021, 08:48:01 AM
Billy, did you trouble yourself to read those documents to see what the $80k per year was being spent on?

$80k per year is not so much funding research as buying the right to see documentation and possibly have some say in elements of the research. It is a tiny amount of money.


Did you trouble yourself to read those documents to understand we gave the Wuhan lab millions although $800k was designated for Coronavirus studies? Add the fact there was no oversight on how American dollars were spent and how studies were conducted. You assume the money we gave China was not enough to engineer a bioweapon. Do you think China is so stupid that if they're a few dollars short of their goal, they won't complete their goal with their own money?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 13, 2021, 09:07:09 AM
BC, sadly that link is paywalled. It could be the most interesting article in the world, but I will never know. :)

Andrew,

try opening in a private browser window, and/or in another browser.  If that doesn't work for you, just send me a PM and I'll send a link to a pdf I was able to print.  I use the Yandex browser and it opened fine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 13, 2021, 09:25:24 AM

You assume the money we gave China was not enough to engineer a bioweapon. Do you think China is so stupid that if they're a few dollars short of their goal, they won't complete their goal with their own money?

This has to be one of the most ignorant statements you've ever written.  Do you really believe that China, the second-largest world economy, with over a Trillion in US debt that could easily be sold, needs US funds to develop a bio-weapon?  If they really wanted to develop a bioweapon they have all the knowledge to do so, and would have done so long ago, and calling it the USA virus.  You are projecting into the absurd.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 13, 2021, 10:52:34 AM
Billykins, I am conflicted. There are things I know - you have a problem with reading. You have a problem with cognitive dissonance. You have a problem with education. You have a problem understanding numbers.  You've shown us all these things, but I am not quite sure how dim you are. All the issues I noted above can be symptoms of cognitive deficit, but they are not conclusive. That's why I am conflicted.

Here is some information about funding that might help you. Take a few moments to tie it together with the documents you shared, but did not read/understand. Get a calculator and somebody numerate - your child bride perhaps?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/04/fact-check-obama-administration-did-not-send-3-7-m-wuhan-lab/3061490001/

Now. while I am sure that some things cost less money in China than the USA, I am pretty sure that even if the numbers being thrown about are correct, they would not pay for the research and development of a new bioweapon. The fact that the actual numbers are much much lower makes a mockery of the idea.

But then, ask yourself, why would the USA pay the Chinese to develop such a weapon?
Why would the Chinese collaborate with the USA on such a project?

I know, I am wasting my time because just as with the US presidency, the death (as you claimed of the president of North Korea) and other matters, you are unable to assimilate data that comes into conflict with your uneducated fantasies. You would prefer to have fantasies than reality.

As noted before, you are not alone, you have millions of compatriots, it is sad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 13, 2021, 12:02:10 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Considering that's a story from 1951, there are some remarkable similarities to today. For example:

Quote
due to a combination of intelligent people not having children and excessive breeding by less intelligent people and coupled with the development of more sophisticated machinery that makes it less important to possess intelligence in one's working life, the world is full of morons, with the exception of an elite few who work slavishly to keep order.

Almost prophetic!

Anyway. Moving on.....

we gave the Wuhan lab millions although $800k was designated for Coronavirus studies

I put it to you that if China wanted to develop a bioweapon, they could afford to do so on their own. They wouldn't need a few hundred grand of American money to do that.

I do recall reading a discussion on Twitter about some money from the US that went to the Wuhan facility for the study of Coronaviruses. IIRC it was a general study the results from which were to be shared with the US. Coronaviruses aren't new and are many and varied, the study of them is ongoing. That likely involves much international cooperation. To do that I expect they have to propagate some, look at variations and mutations, etc. Then they can work on antidotes and vaccines.

It may be the case one got out. It's probably not the first and it won't be the last.

I doubt such would be intentional. If it were, you'd not release it in Wuhan. You'd go and release it near a US virus research facility, wouldn't you? Imagine if that happened in reverse....... :coffeeread:

The truth is we aren't going to know. We'll never find patient zero. It's all speculation. Like the Russians in Salsbury with the Novichok. It creates more questions than it answers and if you were going to do it on purpose, you'd do it differently. You'd do it quietly. You'd not piss on your own doorstep.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 13, 2021, 01:36:32 PM

You assume the money we gave China was not enough to engineer a bioweapon. Do you think China is so stupid that if they're a few dollars short of their goal, they won't complete their goal with their own money?

This has to be one of the most ignorant statements you've ever written.  Do you really believe that China, the second-largest world economy, with over a Trillion in US debt that could easily be sold, needs US funds to develop a bio-weapon?  If they really wanted to develop a bioweapon they have all the knowledge to do so, and would have done so long ago, and calling it the USA virus.  You are projecting into the absurd.

You are ignorant to think China will refuse free money for any project they are engaged in.



Government can't get enough people vaccinated so they send Fauci on tv to send a 'message' to schools and businesses to mandate their students and workers to get vaccinated. People will lose jobs and kids will lose education if they don't adopt the government approved message.

https://t.me/realx22report/2910


Government does not respect your position on vaccines so they are sending people door to door to 'educate' you and record those who do not want the vaccine. Now they are asking SMS carriers to use fact checkers to monitor who is engaging in anti vaccine texts.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/biden-regime-monitor-private-communications-calls-sms-carriers-dispel-misinformation-vaccines-sent-social-media-text-messages/


Factcheck.org owns 2 billion dollars worth of vaccine stock.

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1414674836530597888?s=20


FDA warns J and J vaccine has a neurological disease risk

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-plans-to-warn-j-j-covid-19-vaccine-raises-risk-of-rare-neurological-condition-11626117261


Some of you may have heard a patent for the coronavirus and cure was taken out years ago. Here's a discussion on that recent news based off documents pulled from the patent office. There should be an investigation on all these new revelations and we may need Nuremburg style trials for those involved with the virus released on humanity whether by accident or on purpose.

https://dougbillings.us/video/dougs-commentary-about-the-dr-david-martin-interview/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 14, 2021, 03:54:37 PM

Fun Fact: President of Haiti who was assassinated didn't import vaccines for his people. Less than 48 hrs after assassination, White House announces Haiti will be getting vaccines. Did the Biden administration negotiate or forced the government of Haiti to accept vaccines exploiting the death of an anti vax world leader?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/07/09/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-july-9-2021/


Nobel Peace Prize winner and expert in virology says his vaccinated patients are shown to create variants that are vaccine resistant. He said people will die because of this. He also said it's unthinkable why we're vaccinating during a pandemic. This strategy is wrong.

http://seemorerocks.is/luc-montangier-we-must-be-ready-to-incinerate-the-bodies/


Two whistleblowers in the CDC say we have 50,000 deaths from vaccines which is much more than online reports.

https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2021/06/27/dr-peter-mccullough-whistleblowers-inside-cdc-claim-injections-have-already-killed-50000-americans


French President tells people they'll lose freedoms and rights to worship if they aren't vaccinated. Currently there are mass protests in France.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/07/13/pay-attention-french-president-emmanuel-macron-announces-all-citizens-who-wish-to-shop-drink-eat-at-restaurants-travel-or-worship-must-be-vaccinated/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 15, 2021, 01:42:04 AM
Two whistleblowers in the CDC say we have 50,000 deaths from vaccines which is much more than online reports.

https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2021/06/27/dr-peter-mccullough-whistleblowers-inside-cdc-claim-injections-have-already-killed-50000-americans

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/05/17/latest-antivax-lie-covid-19-vaccines-are-killing-people/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 16, 2021, 07:28:03 PM
Two whistleblowers in the CDC say we have 50,000 deaths from vaccines which is much more than online reports.

https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2021/06/27/dr-peter-mccullough-whistleblowers-inside-cdc-claim-injections-have-already-killed-50000-americans

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/05/17/latest-antivax-lie-covid-19-vaccines-are-killing-people/

Peter McCullough, Mike Adams, and RFK Jr.: “COVID-19 vaccines are killing people!!!!”  Article says those three guys are lying. I've read their stuff before but I would never post their statements on the forum. I have posted statements from a Nobel Peace Prize winner in vaccines, ex Pfizer VP, and senior project manager of epidemics at the Gates Foundation saying experimental vaccines can compromise healthy immune systems leading to mass depopulation. Those three guys have seen enough dead lab animals to know what they are talking about.


UK has one of the highest vaccination rates among nations. Their infections are skyrocketing now up to 48,000 per day. Same time last year when vaccines did not exist, daily infections were averaging less than 800 per day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 17, 2021, 12:41:34 AM

UK has one of the highest vaccination rates among nations. Their infections are skyrocketing now up to 48,000 per day. Same time last year when vaccines did not exist, daily infections were averaging less than 800 per day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Last May UK was in full lockdown IIRC.  In addition, testing was still a problem back then.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wx4D3d4F/Screen-Shot-2021-07-17-at-07-15-41.png)

Very interesting.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 17, 2021, 04:21:57 AM

UK has one of the highest vaccination rates among nations. Their infections are skyrocketing now up to 48,000 per day. Same time last year when vaccines did not exist, daily infections were averaging less than 800 per day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Last May UK was in full lockdown IIRC.  In addition, testing was still a problem back then.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wx4D3d4F/Screen-Shot-2021-07-17-at-07-15-41.png)

Very interesting.

These graphs cant be correct. A 3 day average is never higher than real data (basic math)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 17, 2021, 05:17:10 AM
The delta variant is much more easily transmissible so infection rates are very high. However, those infections have been largely among the younger population who have either not been vaccinated or where vaccination has not had time to take full effect. After about 2 weeks from the first jab protection is around 30% IIRC. Two weeks after the second jab protection is around 90%.

Because so many people have been vaccinated in the UK and the number of unvaccinated people who have not had a Covid infection is now quite low it is expected that from next week onward there will be more infections among the vaccinated than unvaccinated people.

However, in fully vaccinated people the infection causes something like a cold - headaches, runny nose and sneezing for a very few days - if there are any noticeable symptoms.

It is absolutely clear that the link between infection and hospitalisation/death among fully vaccinated people has been broken.

According to the Zoe Symptom Tracking app we seem to be reaching a plateau of infections as the delta variant moves across the country. Infection rates are falling in the earlier hotpots and rising in newly affected areas. The Zoe data suggests that the UK is very close to herd immunity nationally and has reached that point in many regions.

Of course, in countries and states with a relatively lower rate of completed vaccinations the effect of the delta variant is much worse. That's why things ate going wild in the Netherlands, Spain and some other European countries and why we saw such horrific images from India a few months ago.

In the UK the delay between jabs has been reduced from 12 weeks to 8 weeks to counter the infectivity of the delta variant. A wise choice.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Herrie on July 17, 2021, 05:23:02 AM

UK has one of the highest vaccination rates among nations. Their infections are skyrocketing now up to 48,000 per day. Same time last year when vaccines did not exist, daily infections were averaging less than 800 per day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Last May UK was in full lockdown IIRC.  In addition, testing was still a problem back then.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wx4D3d4F/Screen-Shot-2021-07-17-at-07-15-41.png)

Very interesting.

These graphs cant be correct. A 3 day average is never higher than real data (basic math)
Even if they aren't fully correct, the fact that the deads are so much lower compared to last year means that the vaccines ARE doing their job. People can get infected, test positive but don't die from it anymore. A lot has happened in a year, of course, you probably cannot only attribute it to the vaccines but also to broader knowledge about the virus and how to treat it. Last year a lot was still unknown about the virus and how to effectively treat it, a lot more is known now. I do agree that last year testing was very uncommon (at least here in NL), tests simply weren't available for the average population. In case you didn't have anything serious, you wouldn't or even couldn't get tested. Now tests are way more widely available and you can get tested everywhere.

The question if a PCR test is the right means for testing is a whole other and separate discussion. PCR is not designed for what it's being used for and it will show you as being positive for way too long, even before and after being contagious. PCR can show up positive for about a month or even longer from what I understood, while the period in which you are actually contagious seems to be 10-12 days as per https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/if-youve-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Herrie on July 17, 2021, 05:33:47 AM
...
Of course, in countries and states with a relatively lower rate of completed vaccinations the effect of the delta variant is much worse. That's why things ate going wild in the Netherlands, Spain and some other European countries and why we saw such horrific images from India a few months ago.
...
Well, cases are "skyrocketing" here in NL, however, hospital admissions and ICU cases are still quite low and nowhere near the spring numbers.

The completed vaccination rate (45-50%) here is indeed a bit on the low side, though things are up to speed in general. We administer between 1 and 1,5 million doses a week on a 17,2M population). A bit of the problem here is that they started with the older people (and healthcare professionals) and gradually moved to younger people (logical choice in general, seeing older people seem to have more severe symptoms when infected). With limited doses of vaccines being available earlier in the year still, there simply wasn't sufficient supply to start vaccinating the younger age groups earlier.

This is where the current wave comes from really. Younger people all "got loose" after the restrictions were lifted at the end of June and we had some "superspreaders" at some events.

If you look at the vaccination statistics globally, we're doing very well, just after the UK. There's a Dutch newspaper that keeps track of the statistics (it's in Dutch of course), but it gives you a good idea of where we are in NL and you can clearly see the issue is the younger age groups that aren't vaccinated (fully) yet.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/hoe-gaat-het-met-vaccineren-in-nederland-en-wereldwijd-de-belangrijkste-grafieken-op-een-rij~b7109a05/

[edit]
The "Dutch CDC" (RIVM) publishes very detailed reports every week about the development of the virus (https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files/2021-07/COVID-19_WebSite_rapport_wekelijks_20210713_1212_final.pdf). As you can see on page 63, the main issue is the age group 10-40 years old, which are the groups that are the least vaccinated at the moment. It should be a matter of a couple of weeks or maybe 2 months when those groups get up to par with their vaccination and numbers should "normalize", at least that is my expectation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 17, 2021, 05:53:51 AM
IIRC, UK was the first country to start vaccinating.  Approx 1 month ahead of US, and 2 months ahead of EU.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 17, 2021, 06:07:43 AM
These graphs cant be correct. A 3 day average is never higher than real data (basic math)

Indeed.  These are low resolution screenshots, but you can view originals on worldometers.info

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 17, 2021, 10:16:17 AM
Last May UK was in full lockdown IIRC.


Government may just rule lockdowns, not vaccines are the trick to beat the virus.


In addition, testing was still a problem back then.



That may be true but testing last month in June was just as abundant as testing this month. The infections from last month to this month are skyrocketing.


Trying not to project, but something is noticeably different in the charts this time around.


Deaths remain low although infections are skyrocketing but why is government silent about giving safe and effective treatments credit? All the attention is on the vaccines when we know for a fact treatments have helped people recover and saved their lives. If safe and effective treatments exist, government must revoke emergency use authorization given to experimental vaccines. We're all going to get the Coronavirus sooner or later and if not vaccinated, let our own immune system beat it.

I was in the same room as a friend who got COVID and breathe the same air but never got sick and never got any symptoms. He now has natural immunity. Maybe I do too. Lots of people have natural immunity but governments around the world want to take away their freedoms if they don't take an experimental vaccine. Governments aren't even offering an antibody test to see if people acquired natural immunity to give them a waiver from having to take an experimental vaccine. Why?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Herrie on July 17, 2021, 12:26:50 PM
... Governments aren't even offering an antibody test to see if people acquired natural immunity to give them a waiver from having to take an experimental vaccine. Why?
If you actually check the IATA travel website (https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm) you will see that quite some countries will allow you to enter with antibody tests. I know quite some European countries do allow that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 17, 2021, 10:12:12 PM

Looks like a good site for travelers. Thanks Herrie. I just don't like the idea some nations are taking away people's rights unless they take the experimental vaccine. There's a lot of people out there that had COVID with or without symptoms that have built natural immunity. If they show antibodies, they shouldn't need the vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 17, 2021, 11:13:54 PM
Government may just rule lockdowns, not vaccines are the trick to beat the virus.

Lockdowns are a good way to beat the virus and save lives, but everyone has to participate and have the discipline to do it right, and at the same time, worldwide.  We didn't, and as soon as restrictions were lifted, the virus took hold again.

Quote


That may be true but testing last month in June was just as abundant as testing this month. The infections from last month to this month
are skyrocketing.


With lockdowns and other restrictions lifted many disregarded other precautions.  It seems vaccines are doing the heavy lifting, preventing many hospitalizations and deaths.


Quote
Deaths remain low although infections are skyrocketing but why is government silent about giving safe and effective treatments credit? All the attention is on the vaccines when we know for a fact treatments have helped people recover and saved their lives. If safe and effective treatments exist, government must revoke emergency use authorization given to experimental vaccines. We're all going to get the Coronavirus sooner or later and if not vaccinated, let our own immune system beat it.[/font]

The vaccines will be fully approved soon.  Although treatments have improved, it is many, many times more expensive, and likely not as effective as vaccines for reducing hospitalization and death.

Quote
I was in the same room as a friend who got COVID and breathe the same air but never got sick and never got any symptoms. He has natural immunity. Maybe I do too. Lots of people have natural immunity but governments around the world want to take away their freedoms if they don't take an experimental vaccine. Governments aren't even offering an antibody test to see if people acquired natural immunity to give them a waiver from having to take an experimental vaccine. Why?

Some countries do accept antibody tests, or certification that someone has already had COVID.  Here such was also used to prioritize vaccines, along with other criteria like age and medical conditions to ensure folks who were not infected, and the more vulnerable got their shots first.  Anyone can get an antibody test, they're pretty cheap.  Travel to the US still requires at least a rapid test, even if vaccinated.  Putting 'we' before 'me' takes only a few minutes, which is fine.  I'll do my part, even to help those who refuse to do theirs.  I'll still wear masks in stores and other densely populated areas, I'll still carry a little bottle of disinfectant.  As for freedoms, I feel much more free and at ease nowadays than just a few months ago.  It is kind of odd that it's usually those who don't to do squat for themselves or others are the ones that complain about freedom, constantly inventing stuff like magnetic chips and global mind control conspiracies to justify their inaction



 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 18, 2021, 08:04:48 PM

For the second week in a row, there are more vaccination deaths than COVID deaths in America. Keep in mind, there are much more vaccine deaths than actually reported. This also does not include the short term or permanent damage the vaccines have done to people.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/second-week-row-covid-19-vaccination-deaths-covid-19-deaths-us-according-cdc-vaers-websites/


Besides 3 other experts in vaccines I've talked about, a fourth, the inventor of mRNA technology is also alarmed about giving the vaccine to healthy people. In this article, he is alarmed so many vaccinated people are still getting infected. This is what those experts warned about. Giving experimental vaccines to healthy people can compromise their immune systems making them more likely to get infected from other pathogens which in turn increased their chances of getting a disease or dying.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/worrying-me-quite-bit-mrna-vaccine-inventor-shares-viral-thread-showing-covid-surge-most


47% of the people infected in the UK are vaccinated. Vaccines aren't as as effective as advertised in press releases.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/new-uk-study-people-vaccinated-make-47-new-covid-cases/


60 Politicians got on a plane and none have a mask. I've posted photos of politicians in the past with no masks violating their own rules. Now 5 of them got COVID and all 5 are vaccinated.

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/state/2021/07/18/texas-democrats-covid-washington-dc-two-more-test-positive/8008398002/


Kamala and Biden say they won't trust the vaccines.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26556


Israel says vaccine is far less effective against variants. Natural immunity is effective against variants according to vaccine experts.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 19, 2021, 12:21:51 AM
Maybe you should try to convince them in Australia as I do not think many people here are going to be convinced.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-to-deport-commentator-hopkins-for-quarantine-boast/ar-AAMiN8s?ocid=msedgdhp

Trump committing suicide by bashing the vaccine he made for us. It might play well to his base but it will make it much harder for him to ever become president again. It might fill stadiums but it will cost him votes. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 19, 2021, 09:41:36 AM
Trump committing suicide by bashing the vaccine he made for us.


Maybe he's smart after he read the fine print. I've changed my mind too. I took a flu vaccine late last year. I'm not anti vaccine. I was willing to give the COVID vaccines a chance but after I read the fine print on mRNA vaccines, I said I'd wait for the AstraZeneca vaccine but after reading the fine print, I said I'd wait for the J & J vaccine but after reading the fine print, I determined all experimental vaccines are BS and aren't worth taking for a virus that has almost no chance in killing me.

Governments are playing games with us. Big pharma hit payday and politicians will get rewarded. Ex VP of Pfizer said peer review journals been bought up by special interests and scientists are under enormous pressure to produce certain results in their studies or they don't get funding. This government intrusion into the scientific community has also happened with Global Warming. They manufacture a scare event so we're all too happy to give them more tax dollars to fix the 'problem'.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 19, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
Fox news is beginning to support vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hannity-i-believe-in-the-science-of-vaccination/ar-AAMldSF?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 20, 2021, 02:36:19 AM
I've watched Hannity a few times a year.  This segment is his best yet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 20, 2021, 02:39:46 PM

This morning Senator asks FDA director and commissioner how many children died from COVID and both couldn't answer the question. Think about that considering they want to give kids experimental vaccines. They lack knowledge on the pros and cons of the product they're pushing.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26750


Attorney suing on behalf of America's Frontline Doctors saying 45K died from vaccines and has CDC whistleblower as witness.

https://rumble.com/vk1vsx-45k-dead-from-the-covid-shot-watch-atty-renz-lay-out-his-lawsuit.html

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/files/alabama-preliminary-injunction/


1600 sailors on British carrier and 100 vaccinated sailors got COVID. Methinks the efficacy isn't what is advertised in their press release.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3141136/uk-navys-flagship-hit-covid-19-outbreak-en-route-asia

https://nypost.com/2021/07/14/covid-19-infects-about-100-vaccinated-crewmembers-on-hms-queen-elizabeth-report/



As this experiment continues, here is an example how news changes over time.

https://gab.com/KanekoaTheGreat/posts/106605640094626578


Pharma executives promoting mixing vaccines. So if you got the J & J shot, they would like you to take an mRNA Moderna or Pfizer shot for a booster. Of course, this is for your protection. Lets not take one type of experimental vaccine but two! All these different type of solutions being offered since nobody seems to have the answer. The answer could be as simple as allowing our own natural immunity handle it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-11/pharma-executives-seeking-higher-immunity-mix-own-covid-shots?utm_source=url_link
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on July 20, 2021, 03:43:35 PM
 July 17th
US- new cases, 9959, deaths 159, Vaccine rate, 1 shot 59% 2 shots 46%
Canada New cases 279 , deaths 3 Vaccine rate  1 shot 70.4% 2 Shots 51%
US population 10 times Canada's
90% of Canada still has to where mask and still have many local and travel restrictions.

IMO this shows some restrictions with higher Vax rates give you lower numbers.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 20, 2021, 09:01:01 PM

1600 sailors on British carrier and 100 vaccinated sailors got COVID. Methinks the efficacy isn't what is advertised in their press release.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3141136/uk-navys-flagship-hit-covid-19-outbreak-en-route-asia

https://nypost.com/2021/07/14/covid-19-infects-about-100-vaccinated-crewmembers-on-hms-queen-elizabeth-report/


1 in 16 people got the Covid-19 but in most there is little effect from the disease. This works out to be 93 per cent effective for the disease nearly, 100 per cent effective against serious illness from the disease and 100 percent effective against death. That is right on the number for the British vaccine. What is the problem? Also note the following quote from your article, Wallace told a press briefing on Tuesday: “Our crew are double vaccinated, so you’ll be glad to know there is no serious effects on any of the crew, and we will manage it.” Now before there was a vaccine for Covid-19 a USA carrier got covid-19 had to pull into port and a number of crew members had to be hospitalized, the carrier became unfunctional as numerous crew member had become seriously ill and one died. Big difference.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on July 21, 2021, 04:36:06 AM

1600 sailors on British carrier and 100 vaccinated sailors got COVID. Methinks the efficacy isn't what is advertised in their press release.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3141136/uk-navys-flagship-hit-covid-19-outbreak-en-route-asia

https://nypost.com/2021/07/14/covid-19-infects-about-100-vaccinated-crewmembers-on-hms-queen-elizabeth-report/


1 in 16 people got the Covid-19 but in most there is little effect from the disease. This works out to be 93 per cent effective for the disease nearly, 100 per cent effective against serious illness from the disease and 100 percent effective against death. That is right on the number for the British vaccine. What is the problem? Also note the following quote from your article, Wallace told a press briefing on Tuesday: “Our crew are double vaccinated, so you’ll be glad to know there is no serious effects on any of the crew, and we will manage it.” Now before there was a vaccine for Covid-19 a USA carrier got covid-19 had to pull into port and a number of crew members had to be hospitalized, the carrier became unfunctional as numerous crew member had become seriously ill and one died. Big difference.

Im with tex on this one
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 21, 2021, 09:35:13 AM
July 17th
US- new cases, 9959, deaths 159, Vaccine rate, 1 shot 59% 2 shots 46%
Canada New cases 279 , deaths 3 Vaccine rate  1 shot 70.4% 2 Shots 51%
US population 10 times Canada's
90% of Canada still has to where mask and still have many local and travel restrictions.

IMO this shows some restrictions with higher Vax rates give you lower numbers.


There's a reason governments aren't telling us how many people die from the vaccines. It's been two straight weeks the vaccine killed more people than the virus in America. I've seen the new numbers. It is going to be 3 straight weeks the vaccine kills more. The UK infections have skyrocketed and deaths from COVID have double from the same time last year when nobody was vaccinated. Who knows how many additional deaths they have due to the vaccine. Deaths from COVID in Canada are the same as it was last year this time when nobody had the vaccine. If people get compromised immune systems from vaccines, they will die later. Long term studies have not been completed so we don't know yet what will happen to vaccinated people but you can be sure more deaths can be blamed on vaccines if not now, later.


Now before there was a vaccine for Covid-19 a USA carrier got covid-19 had to pull into port and a number of crew members had to be hospitalized, the carrier became unfunctional as numerous crew member had become seriously ill and one died. Big difference.

Not an apples to apples comparison. If the UK ship wasn't allowed to evacuate sailors for weeks same like the America carrier when no country would allow it to port and get sailors to a hospital quicker, infections on the UK ship may have gone much higher and we may even seen a death or two. Now we know COVID isn't as deadly as we thought, nations aren't preventing ships with infected people from coming into port. Even cruise ships are allowed to operate again without the fear of being stranded in the ocean for months.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 21, 2021, 11:30:00 AM
What government did not tell us is how close the USA was to running out of food because of covid-19. I am sure you do not need food and starving to death does not count as a covid-19 death in your books. People were force to work in meat packing plants and die to keep people like you feed. It was one of the most awful things that happen in the USA. They gave up all rights to sue the company because Trump had to give the packing plants immunity to get any food on your table. You are such a slime ball you can not see what was given up for your family. The real hero of the USA aren't the ones Jan 6 claiming to be but the ones no one heard of that put food on all of our tables.

About the ship you are dreaming or just another one of you illusions.  I am not sure if you're awake of not. The French had the same problem on their aircraft carrier also with same results. I guess you feel the different between 1000 infections and a hundred infection did not make a difference. I could go on but what is the point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 21, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
Tex, everybody is back to work and we all have to brave the same virus the meat packers faced last year. Are we heroes too? The media overblew the situation so you feel sorry for the meat packers. Before this virus, we all had to work making us more vulnerable to colds, flus, and other diseases but that doesn't make us heroes. We also couldn't sue our employer if we got the cold or flu.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 21, 2021, 06:36:02 PM


John Hopkins study show ZERO COVID deaths among healthy children. Our medical 'experts' want to put experimental vaccines in their bodies. Crazy! Ex VP of Pfizer said the vaccine kills kids 50-1 over COVID. It's best to let our healthy kids natural immune system handle the virus and gain natural immunity. I wish our government would give people more info so they can make a more informed decision on whether or not to inject an experimental vaccine into their and their kids bodies.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/07/21/johns-hopkins-study-found-zero-covid-deaths-among-healthy-kids/


Democratic politician tweets today that we need to follow the science and she says everybody needs to put back on the masks. Here's a picture of her unmasked in a plane where 6 fully vaccinated politicians got COVID.

https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1417883921451151360


Typically 50 vaccine deaths will get the government to remove it off the market. We're up to 11,000 deaths and today's government continues to promote the product.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1349


Fauci's hand shaking showing he's nervous about yesterday's Senate hearing. Senator Rand Paul sent a criminal referral to FBI today because Fauci lied about gain of function to the Senate. I don't know why our health experts aren't working hard to find the origins of the virus. It's important to know how it came to be so we can prevent it from happening again.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26823


Fox host says media and social media been covering for Fauci and censoring truth.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/culpable-lying-needs-held-accountable-sen-ron-johnson-says-time-go-fauci-funding-gain-function-research-lying-oath-video/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on July 22, 2021, 02:36:57 PM
Billy your arms has to be getting sore  :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 22, 2021, 08:19:01 PM

Billy your arms has to be getting sore  :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh: :dh:

I've been going to the gym everyday besides typing here. I'm getting stronger. No pain, no gain.


Last night Biden was asked when will children under 12 be able to get vaccinated. Can somebody tell me what he said?

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26909
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 23, 2021, 12:12:03 AM
Tex, everybody is back to work and we all have to brave the same virus the meat packers faced last year. Are we heroes too? The media overblew the situation so you feel sorry for the meat packers. Before this virus, we all had to work making us more vulnerable to colds, flus, and other diseases but that doesn't make us heroes. We also couldn't sue our employer if we got the cold or flu.

No it is just crap you believe. They work in close quarters and when exposed repeated your chance of death goes way up. Look at the death ratio of meat packers of that time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 24, 2021, 10:58:09 PM


159 fully vaccinated people in Illinois dead and 593 hospitalized.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/159-dead-593-hospitalized-in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/



Fauci surprised at steep decline of efficacy of Pfizer vaccine based on Israeli data

https://t.me/disclosetv/3588


Israel says vaccine now just 39% effective against infection.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-uk-data-offer-mixed-signals-on-vaccines-potency-against-delta-strain/


FDA and NIH employees had first crack at getting vaccinated and only 50-60% chose to do so.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1000


CDC says 85% of new cases in America are Delta variant.

https://t.me/realx22report/3072


Vaccinated people in Singapore make up 75% of infections.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/vaccinated-people-singapore-three-quarters-071043455.html?guccounter=1


Remember what those experts said, Experimental vaccines can compromise healthy immune systems making people more likely to get infected by any pathogen which in turn can lead to decreased lifespan. Also vaccinated people aren't immune from being infected so the vaccine can learn how to defeat the vaccine by creating more variants. Vaccinated people become breeding grounds to give birth to new variants. It's unthinkable to vaccinate a healthy population during a pandemic. It could be a colossal blunder on humanity leading to depopulation.

Did you guys notice governments and health organizations aren't telling us how many people acquired natural immunity and how successful their immune system is against the variants? They aren't even offering a test to give those people a pass from the vaccine or offering them a vaccine passport although they have natural immunity. They seem to want to force people to take a vaccine even if they've beaten COVID earlier.

175 towns in France and cities around the world had massive protests against vaccine passports. I didn't see anybody wearing a mask or social distance. People are tired of the government using the pandemic to create bigger government and more control.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 25, 2021, 12:13:41 AM


159 fully vaccinated people in Illinois dead and 593 hospitalized.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/159-dead-593-hospitalized-in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/ 

Quote
That figure equates to 2.3% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said.

Meaning 97.7% of deaths, or 6754 deaths were unvaccinated or partially unvaccinated.

The vaccine is working great in Illinois, doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing.


Quote
Fauci surprised at steep decline of efficacy of Pfizer vaccine based on Israeli data

https://t.me/disclosetv/3588


Israel says vaccine now just 39% effective against infection.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-uk-data-offer-mixed-signals-on-vaccines-potency-against-delta-strain/

Quote
Israel’s research agreed, at least, that the shot was highly effective in avoiding serious illness, at 91.4% effectiveness.


Quote
FDA and NIH employees had first crack at getting vaccinated and only 50-60% chose to do so.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1000

Representing 41,000 folks, a good cross section of America.  Par for the course, unfortunately.


Quote
CDC says 85% of new cases in America are Delta variant.

https://t.me/realx22report/3072

Yeah, I believe it!  Similar states in other countries as well.


Quote
Vaccinated people in Singapore make up 75% of infections.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/vaccinated-people-singapore-three-quarters-071043455.html?guccounter=1

Quote
Singapore has already inoculated nearly 75% of its 5.7 million people, the world's second highest after the United Arab Emirates

Quote
There were only seven severe cases requiring oxygen support and six of them were unvaccinated and one was partially vaccinated, the health ministry said.

"There is continuing evidence that vaccination helps to prevent serious disease when one gets infected," the ministry said, adding all of the fully vaccinated and infected people showed no symptoms or mild symptoms.

That is really, really, good news for Singapore!  Shows that getting above 70% vaccinated is an important milestone that saves many lives.

Thanks for the uplifting news BillyB!  All positive reports showing that the vaccine is effective, even for the Delta variant.

Quote
Remember what those experts said, Experimental vaccines can compromise healthy immune systems making people more likely to get infected by any pathogen which in turn can lead to decreased lifespan. Also vaccinated people aren't immune from being infected so the vaccine can learn how to defeat the vaccine by creating more variants. Vaccinated people become breeding grounds to give birth to new variants. It's unthinkable to vaccinate a healthy population during a pandemic. It could be a colossal blunder on humanity leading to depopulation.

Fortunately, there is no factual data that supports your opinion.

Quote
Did you guys notice governments and health organizations aren't telling us how many people acquired natural immunity and how successful their immune system is against the variants? They aren't even offering a test to give those people a pass from the vaccine or offering them a vaccine passport although they have natural immunity. They seem to want to force people to take a vaccine even if they've beaten COVID earlier.

Which information will the Digital Green Certificate include?

Quote
The Digital Green Certificate will contain necessary key information such as name, date of birth, the issuing Member State and a unique identifier of the certificate. In addition:

For a vaccination certificate: vaccine product and manufacturer, number of doses, date of vaccination;
For a test certificate: type of test, date and time of test, test centre and result;
For a recovery certificate: date of positive test result, issuer of certificate, date of issuance, validity date.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_1187

Seems you err, again.

Quote
175 towns in France and cities around the world had massive protests against vaccine passports. I didn't see anybody wearing a mask or social distance. People are tired of the government using the pandemic to create bigger government and more control.

Quote
Some 160,000 people, including far-right activists and members of France's yellow vest movement, protested Saturday across the country against a bill requiring everyone to have a special virus pass to enter restaurants and mandating COVID-19 vaccinations for all health care workers.

Similar protests were held in neighboring Italy.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/france-protest-covid-virus-pass-vaccine/

Massive???  Nah, a mere fraction of the population protested.  Let's go big and say a whopping million protestors.. Not even 1% of the populations of France and Italy protested.

IMO More people in Europe protested for George Floyd than against the vaccine.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 25, 2021, 01:56:37 AM


"That figure equates to 2.3% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said."

Meaning 97.7% of deaths, or 6754 deaths were unvaccinated or partially unvaccinated.

The vaccine is working great in Illinois, doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing.


BC's tricky math. Not many people were fully vaccinated Jan 1. Article said 8 fully vaccinated people died last week. Only a handful of people die from COVID everyday in Illinois last week. Some of those people that died with COVID were fully and partially vaccinated. Now do the math. Also, there are 60 times more adverse events than deaths from vaccines. While a vaccinated person may survive COVID, they may get the next variant and die while a person who beat COVID with their own immunity system doesn't have to worry about variants or worry years from now about getting a compromised immune system from an experimental vaccine.


That is really, really, good news for Singapore!  Shows that getting above 70% vaccinated is an important milestone that saves many lives.

Thanks for the uplifting news BillyB!  All positive reports showing that the vaccine is effective, even for the Delta variant.



I'm glad you are thrilled! When people were given the vaccines, they were told they won't get COVID. Maybe 5% of the people will get COVID. 75% of those who are currently infected in Singapore are vaccinated yet you spin it into good news. People were lied to about efficacy rates but hey! Lying helps sell vaccines. The very bad news is the virus is allowed to co-exist with the vaccines in people's bodies eventually creating variants that learn how to defeat vaccines and defeat vaccinated people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 25, 2021, 02:32:57 AM


"That figure equates to 2.3% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said."

Meaning 97.7% of deaths, or 6754 deaths were unvaccinated or partially unvaccinated.

The vaccine is working great in Illinois, doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing.


BC's tricky math. Not many people were fully vaccinated Jan 1. Article said 8 fully vaccinated people died last week. Only a handful of people die from COVID everyday in Illinois last week. Some of those people that died with COVID were fully and partially vaccinated. Now do the math. Also, there are 60 times more adverse events than deaths from vaccines. While a vaccinated person may survive COVID, they may get the next variant and die while a person who beat COVID with their own immunity system doesn't have to worry about variants or worry years from now about getting a compromised immune system from an experimental vaccine.

Nothing tricky at all about it. If the percentage of fully vaccinated deaths equals 2.3% then the remaining deaths, both partially and unvaccinated equals the rest of deaths.  No secrets here at all.  Your adverse events based on VAERS data has been debunked several times.  You are misusing that data.


That is really, really, good news for Singapore!  Shows that getting above 70% vaccinated is an important milestone that saves many lives.

Thanks for the uplifting news BillyB!  All positive reports showing that the vaccine is effective, even for the Delta variant.



Quote
I'm glad you are thrilled! When people were given the vaccines, they were told they won't get COVID. Maybe 5% of the people will get COVID. 75% of those who are currently infected in Singapore are vaccinated yet you spin it into good news. People were lied to about efficacy rates but hey! Lying helps sell vaccines. The very bad news is the virus is allowed to co-exist with the vaccines in people's bodies eventually creating variants that learn how to defeat vaccines and defeat vaccinated people.

Maybe 5% will get what?  Symptomatic?, more severe cases?, what?  There is absolutely no spin at all if you read the articles you post.  Who told them they won't get COVID? It was known from the outset that vaccines were not 100% and that folks who did get COVID would have much better, but not perfect, chances for fewer hospitalizations and survival.  That is success in any book.  Even condoms used alone are not perfect for preventing STD's or pregnancy.  But guess what.. most vaccines are just as or even more effective preventing death than condoms, preventing pregnancy or STD's IMO.

The only one twisting or fabricating falsehoods is you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 25, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
BC, you are thrilled or pretending to be thrilled about the results of COVID vaccines. Even Fauci was alarmed at the amount of infections in Israel considering they have the highest percentage of vaccinated population among major nations.

Let me tell you about a vaccine that gets me thrilled, It was used on another "Virus of the century". The smallpox vaccine has a 95% efficacy rate and it eradicated smallpox in America by 1972. Now if people were told their vaccinated child was still going to get infected by smallpox like COVID vaccines, do you think parents would inject that product into their kids? 75% of the COVID infected people in Singapore are fully vaccinated. That is alarming but you are thrilled with the results.

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/vaccine-basics/index.html


Here's another conspiracy theory involving China. The Delta variant came out of India and the Lambda variant came out of Chile. Both nations use China's Sinovac vaccine. It's possible that vaccine is most responsible for creating variants that are anti vaccine keeping the world's population sick from COVID. Doctor mentions that in the video. Doctor also says CDC stopped counting COVID infections in May which gives the impression the only infections in America are happening to the unvaccinated. Watch how the mockingbird media plays it. He says half the cases are vaccine failures. Those are sad numbers today and years from now, we may also learn of additional damage the vaccines caused to human bodies.

https://rumble.com/vk8awz-about-half-the-cases-are-vaccine-failures.html


CDC is ending the use of PCR tests because of too many false positives. The test can't tell the difference between SARs-COV-2 and influenza viruses. The creator of PCR tests was banned on Youtube for putting out 'misinformation'. Turns out he knew what he was talking about. Duh. This is the test our medical experts used that helped create initial PANIC last year. Now we are vaccinating healthy people and we got vaccines that are creating more mutant viruses. There will be no end to this. Experts 100 years from now are going to look back at this time and wonder why we got so many idiots in the medical and scientific communities.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/27332

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/27333
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 25, 2021, 12:13:45 PM

BC, you are thrilled or pretending to be thrilled about the results of COVID vaccines. Even Fauci was alarmed at the amount of infections in Israel considering they have the highest percentage of vaccinated population among major nations.


Let me tell you about a vaccine that gets me thrilled, It was used on another "Virus of the century". The smallpox vaccine has a 95% efficacy rate and it eradicated smallpox in America by 1972. Now if people were told their vaccinated child was still going to get infected by smallpox like COVID vaccines, do you think parents would inject that product into their kids? 75% of the COVID infected people in Singapore are fully vaccinated. That is alarming but you are thrilled with the results.

http://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/vaccine-basics/index.html

What's your point?  Another wild goose chase?


Quote
Here's another conspiracy theory involving China. The Delta variant came out of India and the Lambda variant came out of Chile. Both nations use China's Sinovac vaccine. It's possible that vaccine is most responsible for creating variants that are anti vaccine keeping the world's population sick from COVID. Doctor mentions that in the video. Doctor also says CDC stopped counting COVID infections in May which gives the impression the only infection in America are happening to the unvaccinated. Watch how the mockingbird media plays it. He says half the cases are vaccine failures. Those are sad numbers today and years from now, we may also learn of additional damage the vaccines caused to human bodies.

http://rumble.com/vk8awz-about-half-the-cases-are-vaccine-failures.html

Exactly as you state, conspiracy theories that ignore variant timelines previously posted.

Quote
CDC is ending the use of PCR tests because of too many false positives. The test can't tell the difference between SARs-COV-2 and influenza viruses. The creator of PCR tests was banned on Youtube for putting out 'misinformation'. Turns out he knew what he was talking about. Duh. This is the test our medical experts used that helped create initial PANIC last year. Now we are vaccinating healthy people and we got vaccines that are creating more mutant viruses. There will be no end to this. Experts 100 years from now are going to look back at this time and wonder why we got so many idiots in the medical and scientific communities.

http://t.me/WeTheMedia/27332

http://t.me/WeTheMedia/27333

http://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/pcr-tests-on-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people-are-evaluated-using-the-same-criteria-the-cdc-didnt-change-criteria-for-detecting-infection-in-vaccinated-people-as-alleged-in-off-guardian-a/

You are again spouting unsubstantiated swill you find by somehow connecting invisible dots.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 25, 2021, 12:23:41 PM
Anti vaccine people are changing the views one at a time. Here is a story of one who had a radio show finally saw the light.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i-m-at-breaking-point-radio-host-who-regrets-mocking-vaccines-is-fighting-for-his-life/ar-AAMwrey?ocid=msedgntp

In Israel where infections were higher than expected but the hospitalization and death rates are much lower than previous wave of tamer disease than the delta.

Hence the British air craft carrier to function while a south Korean vessel with no vaccines had to be medi vac at sea and a new crew put on it. This is what happens to an infected ship when it is not near a port. Nearly 100 per cent of the crew caught the virus verses 7 per cent on the British carrier. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/south-korea-evacuates-navy-ship-after-nearly-entire-crew-contracts-coronavirus/ar-AAMmkS4?ocid=uxbndlbing



 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on July 25, 2021, 12:57:06 PM
The Death of the UK and British Commonwealth Empire...  They are toasting Chairman XI at the Summer Palace:

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-07-23-pingdemic-insanity-uk-government-commits-nation-to-starvation-suicide-supply-chain-collapse.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 26, 2021, 12:05:25 AM
http://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/pcr-tests-on-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people-are-evaluated-using-the-same-criteria-the-cdc-didnt-change-criteria-for-detecting-infection-in-vaccinated-people-as-alleged-in-off-guardian-a/

You are again spouting unsubstantiated swill you find by somehow connecting invisible dots.


What's a fact check in May for? I put links that have links to the horse's mouth. CDC is getting rid of the PCR test and wants to replace it with a test that will not confuse influenza with COVID. The FDA issued a most serious recall of tests because it can cause injury or death.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/medical-device-recalls/innova-medical-group-recalls-unauthorized-sars-cov-2-antigen-rapid-qualitative-test-risk-false-test


Remember the flu disappearing? Think about how many people with a serious flu illness that were told they have COVID. Think about putting people ill with flu in a hospital wing full of people sick with COVID. Think about how many of those fighting flu now becoming ill from COVID and now have to fight two diseases. Think about how many of those dying from flu being counted as dying from COVID inflating the numbers.

Vaxed people:
Can still get covid.
Can still spread covid.
Can still die from covid.
Can potentially die from the vaccine.

Unvaxed people can't die from the vaccine

I hear vaxed people are going to have to mask up soon. They have a tendency to get sick. #1 Golfer and fully vaxed human got COVID a couple of months ago costing him millions. Now he got COVID a second time and will miss the Olympics. An athlete that normally would have a strong immune system is getting sick easy and often.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1025


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 26, 2021, 02:21:49 AM

Unvaxed people can't die from the vaccine


No they die from the lack of vaccine in much larger quantities.

I am trying to make trip to Ukraine. The trouble is the family there does not know they will not be locked down again soon. The delta variant is starting to pick up. Just got out of being locked down a few weeks ago. About every three months you get a new wave of the virus when you do not have a vaccine. When you lock down to get it under control then latter it comes back. Now that the Delta variant spreads faster they are concern it will make a come back much sooner.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 26, 2021, 09:54:03 AM
No they die from the lack of vaccine in much larger quantities.


People who are vaxed currently die less from COVID than those who are unvaxed but increased their chances of dying from the vaccine or having health problems. Also, you need to consider if your immune system is compromised by the vaccine, you are more likely to get killed by a virus or bacteria 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. Your life expectancy will decrease. We don't know what will happen to you. Billions of people are in an experiment and they are petri dishes where new variants are allowed to form.


The delta variant is starting to pick up. Just got out of being locked down a few weeks ago. About every three months you get a new wave of the virus when you do not have a vaccine. When you lock down to get it under control then latter it comes back. Now that the Delta variant spreads faster they are concern it will make a come back much sooner.

People who acquired natural immunity after getting sick from COVID do not have to worry about variants. Because you let the vaccine do the work, you have to worry about variants because the vaccine is made for a specific virus and most of the time can't defeat variants. If they create an all new experimental vaccine for the Delta variant, are you going to take it? You understand this cycle of variants and vaccines will never end? The current vaccines aren't strong enough to end COVID like the ones use for smallpox. The vaccines decrease your chances of death and serious illness but you can still be infected with the virus and infect others.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Herrie on July 27, 2021, 11:51:44 AM
http://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/pcr-tests-on-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people-are-evaluated-using-the-same-criteria-the-cdc-didnt-change-criteria-for-detecting-infection-in-vaccinated-people-as-alleged-in-off-guardian-a/

You are again spouting unsubstantiated swill you find by somehow connecting invisible dots.


What's a fact check in May for? I put links that have links to the horse's mouth. CDC is getting rid of the PCR test and wants to replace it with a test that will not confuse influenza with COVID. The FDA issued a most serious recall of tests because it can cause injury or death.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/medical-device-recalls/innova-medical-group-recalls-unauthorized-sars-cov-2-antigen-rapid-qualitative-test-risk-false-test


Remember the flu disappearing? Think about how many people with a serious flu illness that were told they have COVID. Think about putting people ill with flu in a hospital wing full of people sick with COVID. Think about how many of those fighting flu now becoming ill from COVID and now have to fight two diseases. Think about how many of those dying from flu being counted as dying from COVID inflating the numbers.
Well, it's good they're getting rid of PCR, because what it was being used for is not what it was intended for. It would often show you positive for 4+ weeks, which is complete bullox.

Quote

Vaxed people:
Can still get covid.
Yes but the chances they will get seriously ill are a lot smaller, see current positive rates, hospital and ICU admissions in countries with high vaccination rates such as Israel, UK or Netherlands.

Quote
Can still spread covid.
Yes, however initial research seems to suggest they're contagious for a considerably shorter period compared to when you're not vaccinated.

Quote

Can still die from covid.
Yes, but the chances are a lot smaller, numbers from highly vaccinated countries demonstrate this.

Quote
Can potentially die from the vaccine.
Yes, just like you can from anything in life, a car accident, being struck by lightning, flu. Chances are extremely small though you would die or have serious complications from the vaccine if you're healthy.

Quote

Unvaxed people can't die from the vaccine
No, but they are more likely to die from the virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on July 27, 2021, 03:24:13 PM
This will upset Billy’s theories: UK's daily Covid cases drop for the SIXTH day in a row: Infections plummet 38% to 24,950 and deaths fall 24% to 14 (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9825881/How-Covid-falling-levelling-region-England.html)

70.8% of people have had two jabs. Added to those who have had one (another 18%) and post infection and underlying immunity, we must have hit herd immunity now hence the plunging numbers.

The plunging numbers also coincide with masks and social distancing rules being scrapped as of the 19th.

Most schools are on holiday now for the summer so that provides a further circuit breaker.

I think we broke its back here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 27, 2021, 06:07:39 PM

I hear vaxed people are going to have to mask up soon. They have a tendency to get sick. #1 Golfer and fully vaxed human got COVID a couple of months ago costing him millions. Now he got COVID a second time and will miss the Olympics. An athlete that normally would have a strong immune system is getting sick easy and often.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1025

Quote
Once again, without symptoms, he will be pulled from the Olympics as the world's number 1 ranked golfer.

He is not sick, and his immune system is working fine.  It is more likely he got infected from someone not vaccinated than someone who was vaccinated.

Quote
I hear vaxed people are going to have to mask up soon.

Rules are rules.  If everyone was vaccinated, some, maybe all, rules could be dropped.  Right now, most of the rules are to reduce risk of infection AND reduce risk of passing it on to those that are not vaccinated.

I see it's getting quite difficult for you to defend the indefensible.  Silly, even stupid.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 27, 2021, 07:13:13 PM
I think we broke its back here.


Outbreaks have their ups and downs. The vaccine was to prevent an outbreak yet UK just experienced it's second biggest outbreak in the middle of summer when most of the population were vaccinated. That is alarming and a sign the vaccine isn't up to par. Last years summer outbreak in the UK was much smaller. Governments didn't tell anybody that the vaccine wouldn't prevent infection among the majority of vaccinated. They touted a high rate of efficacy which of course helps with sales.


NBC News reports officials say vaccinated people have higher rates of infections and infect others as cases surge. We seen that in Israel and Singapore. If you Google the first few words in the link below, you will find links that contain the words in the article but click the links and the exact words have been removed out of the article. Someone must've told them to quit telling the truth. Face it guys, just like the experts I mentioned up thread, they say the experimental vaccines can compromise your immune system making you more likely to get sick. While you won't get as sick from COVID, the vaccine won't decrease the amount of sickness you'll get from other pathogens leading to decreased lifespans.

https://t.me/SteelTruthChannel/2629


82% of the new cases in Iceland came from fully vaccinated people.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1068


Antibodies created from vaccines decrease after 6 weeks and efficacy can be reduced by 50% according to the Lancet. These are the kinds of scientific reports that will give the government the green light to give you never ending experimental vaccine booster shots, not to mention all new vaccines for variants.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3677


CDC recommends fully vaccinated people mask up again. People have been played. They thought being vaccinated would end their need for masks and other restrictions. A 'good' vaccine wouldn't allow you to be infected or infect others. Think the smallpox vaccine. If COVID vaccines actually worked, you wouldn't fear the unvaccinated, vaccinated or another outbreak.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-fully-vaccinated-masks-certain-indoor-areas-universal-masking-schools


God only knows what health problems vaccinated people will develop years from now. Back in WW2, the Nazis experimented on people including injecting them with vaccines. Because of that the Nuremburg Code was created saying never again should people take medicines without being INFORMED about them. I guess we can't learn from history. Most people don't know the dangers of experimental vaccines that belong in lab animals. They actually got people promoting these vaccines after what they heard in a commercial or read in an article! Most people do not know long term studies have not been completed. They do not knw the PCR tests do not work and the founder of the test was silent. Number of infected people were overblown because those with flu were counted and those with flu and COVID were thrown in the same hospital wings cross infecting each other and increasing everybody's chances to die.

Quote

Unvaxed people can't die from the vaccine
No, but they are more likely to die from the virus.


Herrie, I know you're coming in late to this thread but earlier I put up videos and articles of the ex VP and chief science officer of Pfizer, a French Nobel Peace prize winner in viruses and vaccines, the founder of mRNA technology, and ex senior project manager for epidemics at the Gates Foundation. They are not only experts, they lead teams of experts. They say experimental vaccines can lead to shortened lifespans and depopulation. We lost 4 million people in the world in 18 months due to COVID. We abort 19 million people every 6 months in the world to put things into perspective. So in the effort to save a few million people, we are risking the health and lives of billions of people. Currently our bodies handle coronaviruses that cause the harmless cold. We need to let our natural immune system to learn this new coronavirus and pass on the instructions to future generations so it too becomes harmless. Allowing vaccines to do the work may be a huge mistake. These vaccines allow the host be still be infected giving the virus the opportunity to learn how to defeat vaccines after mutation.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 27, 2021, 07:23:16 PM

People who are vaxed currently die less from COVID than those who are unvaxed

WoW ... That is a big start!!!


People who acquired natural immunity after getting sick from COVID do not have to worry about variants.

That is so wrong. Those people who got the vaccine are more likely to not get the variant than some who had the disease. I am sure you did not read that any place and just made it up.

You write like you still do not understand the basics of how a vaccine works. At least learn how the vaccine is suppose to work and then maybe you might make a better argument as to why you do not like it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on July 27, 2021, 09:15:00 PM
People who acquired natural immunity after getting sick from COVID do not have to worry about variants. Because you let the vaccine do the work, you have to worry about variants because the vaccine is made for a specific virus and most of the time can't defeat variants.

Do you have any evidence or proof for this statement or is it a musing?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 28, 2021, 01:11:16 AM
People who acquired natural immunity after getting sick from COVID do not have to worry about variants. Because you let the vaccine do the work, you have to worry about variants because the vaccine is made for a specific virus and most of the time can't defeat variants.

Do you have any evidence or proof for this statement or is it a musing?

I posted many videos of interviews of the experts I mentioned about in the previous post. New people who just showed up to the discussion have an excuse to waste my time asking for proof. The rest of you don't. You guys should watch those videos if you truly care about what is going on in your body. Repeating a sales slogan you heard on tv that the vaccine is safe and effective isn't going to change my mind.

Also, I will repeat for the third or fourth time, the French Nobel Peace Prize winner said he has variants wanting to develop in his vaccinated COVID patients. He said we should stop vaccinating with the experimental vaccine. All, experts I mentioned about agree it's crazy to vaccinate healthy people with an unproven vaccine in the middle of a pandemic. We've beaten pandemics before using other strategies. Also, a John Hopkins study say there are zero COVID deaths among children with healthy immune systems. It's a fact, this vaccine will kill more children than COVID but they want to vaccinate all kids anyway. Insane. Reproductive studies have not been completed. Some kids may lose the ability to reproduce and some will have defective children.

We've been lied to. They said we need to be vaccinated to end COVID. Even if 100% of us were vaccinated, we'd never achieve herd immunity because vaccinated people can still get infected and become breeding grounds for variants to emerge. There will be no end to experimental vaccines. We need to let our own immune systems handle the virus and vaccinate only the weak and elderly. Also notice governments aren't interested in if you previously had COVID and you have natural immunity. They want 100% of the people to get vaccinated. People who have acquired natural immunity have better protection than those vaccinated and full protection against all variants which vaccinated people don't have. Watch the expert testimony of those experts in the videos I provided. Obviously Tex did not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 28, 2021, 08:02:11 AM


Do you have any evidence or proof for this statement or is it a musing?





I posted many videos of interviews of the experts I mentioned about in the previous post.


You posted interviews of a few folks who shared their opinions but offer no proof of their hypotheses.

That's not what AvHdB asked for.  Instead, you regress, and regurgitate.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 28, 2021, 10:18:30 AM


BC, nobody showed you proof yet for years you promoted the Trump/Russia collusion to affect an election story as if it actually happened. Now all of a sudden you have very high standards for proof. Nobody showed you proof when they told you vaccines are safe and effective. I've supplied FDA documents saying the vaccines aren't approved for use on humans. I showed vaccine manufacture documents saying significant risks and benefits are unknown but some of you guys keep repeating what some actor or athlete said in a commercial without providing me proof. Vaccine manufacture and FDA documents are written after they reviewed all data/proof. Much of the data is incomplete because long term studies aren't finished. This is common sense stuff. Promoting the vaccine as safe and effective shouldn't be happening.

Government should allow us to sue vaccine manufactures if their product hurts us and then we'll see if they continue to promote their product or pull it off the market. Deep down, you know the answer. Anyway, the experts I mentioned upthread have enough experience and seen enough injured and dead lab animals to know what they are talking about. None of the inspectors at the FDA is smart enough to achieve what they have done.


Study in Israel says Pfizer vaccine hurts every system of the human body

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1417


There's a new variant spreading in America that came from Columbia. Columbia used China's Sinovac vaccine. There seems to be a pattern so far with Sinovac and variants.

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1420147971123994629?s=20

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/colombia-reaches-covid-19-vaccine-agreements-with-moderna-sinovac-2021-01-30/


Biden said he won't shut down the country or economy. He'll shut down the virus. Politician's promises. Just watch what he does. Politicians around the world tell us to take the shot and we'll go back to normal. All lies. Besides being dangerous, the vaccines aren't good enough to eradicate COVID.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1322254443644026880


This is going to turn out to be a lie too. They really don't know what they're doing and they don't understand the vaccines they promote. If they do know what they're doing and understand the vaccines they promote, then they are playing games with us. Either way, it's all bad.

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1392907170702839808


Two minute video of nurse tells of her experience with those injured by the vaccine. Neurological problems among other things including death. You guys still want to promote an experimental vaccine that allows you to still get sick with COVID and transmit it to others?

https://www.brighteon.com/82932c26-9234-4057-b283-6d458d3107df
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 28, 2021, 11:59:06 AM


BC, nobody showed you proof yet for years you promoted the Trump/Russia collusion to affect an election story as if it actually happened. Now all of a sudden you have very high standards for proof. Nobody showed you proof when they told you vaccines are safe and effective. I've supplied FDA documents saying the vaccines aren't approved for use on humans. I showed vaccine manufacture documents saying significant risks and benefits are unknown but some of you guys keep repeating what some actor or athlete said in a commercial without providing me proof. Vaccine manufacture and FDA documents are written after they reviewed all data/proof. Much of the data is incomplete because long term studies aren't finished. This is common sense stuff. Promoting the vaccine as safe and effective shouldn't be happening.

Government should allow us to sue vaccine manufactures if their product hurts us and then we'll see if they continue to promote their product or pull it off the market. Deep down, you know the answer. Anyway, the experts I mentioned upthread have enough experience and seen enough injured and dead lab animals to know what they are talking about. None of the inspectors at the FDA is smart enough to achieve what they have done.


Study in Israel says Pfizer vaccine hurts every system of the human body

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1417


There's a new variant spreading in America that came from Columbia. Columbia used China's Sinovac vaccine. There seems to be a pattern so far with Sinovac and variants.

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1420147971123994629?s=20

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/colombia-reaches-covid-19-vaccine-agreements-with-moderna-sinovac-2021-01-30/


Biden said he won't shut down the country or economy. He'll shut down the virus. Politician's promises. Just watch what he does. Politicians around the world tell us to take the shot and we'll go back to normal. All lies. Besides being dangerous, the vaccines aren't good enough to eradicate COVID.

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1322254443644026880


This is going to turn out to be a lie too. They really don't know what they're doing and they don't understand the vaccines they promote. If they do know what they're doing and understand the vaccines they promote, then they are playing games with us. Either way, it's all bad.

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1392907170702839808


Two minute video of nurse tells of her experience with those injured by the vaccine. Neurological problems among other things including death. You guys still want to promote an experimental vaccine that allows you to still get sick with COVID and transmit it to others?

https://www.brighteon.com/82932c26-9234-4057-b283-6d458d3107df

Why do waste everyone time with this stuff. One you have Cindy Powel twitter where she is telling us about the vaccine dangers. Cindy Powel is not an expert but in trouble from spreading fake information. That is even worse than your ideas. Then you make claim the sonovac vaccine is causing mutations but articles do not support that at all. Then this article in Israel where a citizen group is saying the Pfizer vaccine it damaging every part of the Human body with completely no scientific data. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 28, 2021, 12:31:59 PM
Texan77

It is all part of the Trumpist deny, divert, discredit routine, that remains the only option for those who cannot provide an ounce of substantiation for their opinions.  The rest is a broken record act, or maybe better like cows chewing cud, somehow thinking it'll be more palatable the next go around, despite all having been discussed ad nauseam.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 28, 2021, 02:49:44 PM
One you have Cindy Powel twitter where she is telling us about the vaccine dangers. Cindy Powel is not an expert but in trouble from spreading fake information.


I don't know who she is and I don't care about Cindy Powel. I posted documents from the government, vaccine manufactures and leading experts in the industry that all say significant risks and benefits of COVID vaccines are unknown. That is simple enough information for most people to understand there could be big dangers from the vaccines and no benefit. Your governments should be in trouble for spreading fake information when they say vaccines are safe and effective.

mRNA inventor in video below said today just like I said earlier that herd immunity will not be achieved with everybody vaccinated. So that means we been lied to. You can also hear other things he had to say like the vaccine is making vaccinated people more infectious than non vaccinated people. He said this could end up as a catastrophe but experts knew this could happen before the vaccines were administered to people yet they proceeded to use the strategy of beating COVID with vaccines. He said Fauci is so committed to this that it would make him look bad if he had to reverse course on the vaccines but halting vaccines right now is the right thing to do. If you care about the stuff going into your body, listen to the experts. You and BC aren't arguing with me. If you don't like what you're hearing from the experts, challenge what they have to say. I trust them. They are all pro vaccine all their lives but they also are pro safety.

https://rumble.com/vkfz1v-the-vaccine-causes-the-virus-to-be-more-dangerous.html


Here is Biden today. While you guys play the fear card they tell you to play, government officials all over the world play us. WAKE UP! Quit allowing yourselves to be duped.

https://t.me/SteelTruthChannel/2654


CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said new data shows the delta variant, which accounts for more than 80% of the new infections in the U.S., behaves "uniquely differently'' from its predecessors and could make vaccinated people infectious. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendation.'' Duh dumbasses. At our expense, they are learning all kinds of new things in this experiment. My experts knew from the beginning that experimental vaccines can compromise our immunity systems and make us more likely to get infected from pathogens. Tex likes data. Just look at the most vaccinated countries in the world and you'll see most new infections are happening to vaccinated people. Infections are rising in America in the middle of summer. Vaccinated people brought us some new variants to worry about prolonging the pandemic and giving government rights to place restrictions and lockdowns on us.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/27/covid-vaccine-variant-hospitalization-children-mask-mandates/5380480001/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 29, 2021, 01:06:17 AM
BillyB,

As far as Dr Malone is concerned, he seems like a serious guy who is expressing his opinion, and not fact.  You again fall into the trap of confusing the two, not getting past the headlines you persistently get hooked with.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPtZSBNR/Screen-Shot-2021-07-29-at-08-50-21.png)

I don't discredit Malone. He is interested in some unsubstantiated information being thrown out there, and clearly states studies should follow that either confirms or refutes his current hypothesis.  It is certainly not time to cry wolf as you do, based on suspicions and "fragments" of information alone.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xC0Ts51Q/Screen-Shot-2021-07-29-at-09-08-16.png)

There is nothing strange with learning more about variants that are in circulation.  The Delta variant, of course, is of concern, especially among those who are currently not vaccinated. Despite your insinuations, there are thousands of variants.  IIRC 4000 + or so. Those of interest and concern were first identified in populations where the virus was running wild and before mass immunization programs.  First identified does not necessarily fix the date it first appeared, which could be much earlier.  There will be more variants in the future.  Hopefully none will be able to circumvent the efficacy of vaccines, and even if such does happen it is most likely they will not circumvent all vaccines.  Tweaks to vaccines and even boosters may well be in the cards.  This was known from the outset and is nothing new.  In fact, vaccine researchers do try to identify and target areas that seem least likely to produce variants.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 29, 2021, 03:53:58 AM
Billy, who are your 'my experts'? Do you have connections to virological and immunological research that the rest of humanity does not have access to?

I would be interested in reading their peer-reviewed research, can you provide links to the academic work of your experts?

Remember an opinion is not worth anything without the necessary foundation of facts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on July 29, 2021, 06:17:38 AM
Billy, who are your 'my experts'? Do you have connections to virological and immunological research that the rest of humanity does not have access to?

I would be interested in reading their peer-reviewed research, can you provide links to the academic work of your experts?

Remember an opinion is not worth anything without the necessary foundation of facts.

Up thread in reply #3621 I asked the same. Proof is thin on the bones with this one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 29, 2021, 07:59:10 AM
BC, from what I have seen of this bloke's reported opinions, he seems to be something of a bloke with a hammer so every bit of wood has to be fixed with a nail.

And yes, even he does not make the claims that Billykins attributes to him. Do people like poor billy simply not understand what they read or do they want to try to mislead us with false information?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 29, 2021, 09:44:04 AM
Billy, who are your 'my experts'? Do you have connections to virological and immunological research that the rest of humanity does not have access to?

I would be interested in reading their peer-reviewed research, can you provide links to the academic work of your experts?

Remember an opinion is not worth anything without the necessary foundation of facts.

And you guys wonder why I post things over and over and over again. You criticize my every post yet you don't read them or you read them and got a bad memory.

Geert Vanden Bossche from Belgium. Ex senior project manager on epidemics at the Bill and Gate Foundation. He has lots of experience on vaccines. Read about some of his work below. Read his website, he reviews other experts in the field sometimes disagreeing with them on the direction the virus will take but agreeing with them mass vaccination is a huge mistake. Read his older articles. He predicted vaccinated countries will see huge outbreaks. UK had one and Israel and USA is just starting one. I predict USA will have our second worst outbreak in the summer like UK did only behind last winter's outbreak. Summer outbreaks 2021 are much worse than the summer outbreaks in 2020 when nobody was vaccinated. Yesterday's infections in America was worse than any single day from last year and the trend keeps going up. Exactly the same thing is happening in Israel. The UK had a hundred times more infections everyday this summer compared to same time last summer.

https://twitter.com/GVDBossche

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org


Discover of HIV and Nobel Peace Prize winner from France Luc Montagnier. Nobody at the FDA or any health organization has accomplished as much as him and the other experts I mentioned who lead science and teams of scientists.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/nobel-prize-winner-mass-covid-vaccination-an-unacceptable-mistake-that-is-creating-the-variants


Founder of mRNA technology Robert Malone. Watch the 10 minute video in my last post. If you don't have the attention span to do so, here is a 3 minute video. He explains in the 60's we learned a lot from vaccines that were killing more people than helping. He explains why no coronavirus vaccine exists. Antibody Dependent Enhancement is what vaccine community warned about which is that the virus become more infectious and replicate more often in vaccinated people than in people that were not vaccinated. He said it's our worst nightmare.

https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD

https://www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventor

https://rumble.com/vkgp8x-antibody-dependent-enhancement.html


PhD Michael Yeadon from the UK. Graduated top of his class, ex VP and Chief science officer at Pfizer. Left the company to start his own biotech company and then sold it for $350 million. I posted many videos of his interviews. He said peer review journals used to be good but have been bought off by special interests. Scientists today are pressured by government to produce studies with certain results. You've seen that happen in the climate warming debate. It's happening here too.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mike-yeadon-3818613


While you guys are getting an education form commercials on tv, follow the above guys. Google their names and find out what they've accomplished for yourselves. They don't agree on everything but they agree we are making a mistake vaccinating healthy people which could have catastrophic consequences leading to depopulation. They aren't making money saying what they are saying and if they own stock in big pharma, they are hurting themselves but they do care about safe vaccines and have spoken out against the current vaccines. So far their fears are coming true. The vaccines don't work. People who are vaccinated are more likely to be infected and pass the disease to others. They also are breeding grounds for vaccine beating variants to develop.


It's confirmed Pfizer contains a toxic poison called Graphene Oxide. It has also has magnetic properties.

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/07/deadly-shots-former-pfizer-employee-confirms-poison-in-covid-vaccine/


But but but Billy, vaccines aren't suppose to have toxins in it! Wrong, vaccines can and do contain toxins if they think the help outweighs the hurt. The problem with the current vaccines is it isn't giving us immunity from COVID like vaccines are supposed to do. It's actually making us more infectious and more likely to create variants. Notice all the anti vaccine variants coming out this year compared to last year when we didn't have vaccines? The hurt may outweigh the help.

https://www.britannica.com/science/vaccine


Vaccinated people are getting mad thinking if they vaccinated, they would not have to wear masks or fear the virus again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i-thought-i-did-everything-right-the-fully-vaccinated-are-frustrated-by-cdc-s-changing-mask-advice/ar-AAMFy0L?li=BBorjTa&OCID=IE11FREDHP&pc=EUPP_UF01


Liberal and very pro vaccine Michael Rapaport is pissed. Like him, you guys should direct your anger at your governments and medical experts instead of me. I did my research and I brought competent guys here that know what they're talking about. They and I care about your health more than those other guys who are getting filthy rich at your expense. My experts said those guys knew what they knew on the dangers before committing to a vaccinate every person on earth strategy. If they can deceive you on climate change with manipulated scientific studies and peer review journals, they can deceive you on COVID/vaccines. I showed you old man Biden hugging people indoors and the Queen of England talking to other world leaders inches away with nobody wearing masks but soon they're going to tell everybody to put on a mask again vaccinated or not. Figure it out guys. You've been duped. Your education from commercials that say vaccines are safe and effective aren't facts that emerged from valid scientific data. If you read the fine print, significant risks and benefits of the vaccines are unknown. What is in the fine print is coming from scientific data or the lack of.

https://twitter.com/MichaelRapaport/status/1420529220489555968
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 29, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
Do people like poor billy simply not understand what they read or do they want to try to mislead us with false information?

Andrew,

what BillyB fails to recognize is that scientists are people too, and just as opinionated.  Just because there is an MD, PhD, or other prefix like VP before their name, invented this that or the other and sold their companies for millions etc etc does not make their opinions worth any more than yours or mine.  It is only by applying the scientific method that their opinions/hypotheses can begin to resemble, and maybe become fact.  Although we covered the value of the scientific method thoroughly, it obviously did not sit well in his alternate, opinion-centric universe.  Square blocks and round holes.

If it were the virus discussions alone, I'd say he is simply impressionable, ignorant and misguided.  But, taking into consideration the exact same issues, correlation and motivation in political threads, I can only come to the conclusion that he, like many of the 'experts' he touts, are attempting to leverage biased, totally unsubstantiated opinions, in hopes some day fate may provide the 'gotcha' moment of schadenfreude and fame they seek. I could not find even one of his 'experts' that indicated they are active participants in ongoing COVID research efforts and studies.  Most are past their career prime, working independently as consultants for media gigs.  Meanwhile, anything and everything is thrown at the barn in hopes something might stick, like the magnetic graphene Billy is certain I was injected. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 29, 2021, 03:01:29 PM
Your scientists have opinions too BC. After reviewing the data, none of them approved the vaccine on humans. But you've been lied to when they say it's safe and effective.

Let me tell you something about government medical scientist inspectors. Most can't make it into the private sector. They will never achieve an executive position at big pharma. They won't make a new invention of any kind and they certainly won't win a Nobel Peace Prize. I work with government inspectors in construction. Some are great people and some are assholes. Most really care about doing a good job. I doubt any medical science inspectors want anybody killed. They have a set of guidelines to go by. Big pharma sent data pertaining to their vaccines and the inspectors said it doesn't meet the guidelines so in turn, it doesn't get approve to be used on humans. Of course with emergency authorization, they can use their opinion that the vaccines are less dangerous than the virus and get it into people's bodies. Doesn't mean they are right. As this experiment continues, we are learning people's immune systems are getting compromised making them more likely to be infected. I wouldn't doubt USA and Israel infections skyrocket just like UK's did in the middle of summer paling last summers infections. You like data. Go to worldometers and monitor infections. Deaths follow infections and UK is now experiencing more deaths than they did this time last year when nobody was vaccinated.


CDC reports 94% of the people who died from COVID had another health problem. Only 6% of the people died from COVID alone.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/confirmed-individuals-one-no-comorbidities-low-risk-dying-covid-19/


CDC not only reverses mask recommendations for vaccinated people, they reverse testing advice. If you are fully vaccinated and been near someone infected, they recommend you getting tested. The 94% efficacy advertised in a press release is BS. Seems like 100% of the vaccinated people out there can still get COVID at some degree. Imagine a world where you need multiple jabs of experimental vaccines every year to be 'normal'. Remember, they told us if everybody took the shot, we'd return to normal. That was a lie. Herd immunity will never be achieved even if 100% of the people get vaccinated. They really don't know what the vaccine is or isn't capable of.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210729155145/https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/28/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine


Israel approves the booster. Soon, boosters will be coming your way too. Some of you guys may not like what I've posted because it challenges everything you believe in and what you heard in an advertisement but now you can make a truly 'inform' decision on whether or not to take and have your children take the experimental vaccines and experimental boosters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-offer-third-shot-pfizer-vaccine-people-over-60-israeli-news-reports-2021-07-29/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 30, 2021, 12:47:08 AM
Your scientists have opinions too BC.

Sure, they call them hypotheses and apply the scientific method to test and refine their hypotheses until conclusions can be formulated and the peer review process can take place to confirm.

Quote
After reviewing the data, none of them approved the vaccine on humans. But you've been lied to when they say it's safe and effective.

Even an EUA is an approval based on conclusions of trials and peer review.

FDA decisions are based on the totality of scientific evidence available
showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19
pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known
and potential risks of the product.
All of these criteria must be met to allow for the
product to be used in the treatment of patients during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Your statements above are Denial, pure and simple.

Quote
Let me tell you something about government medical scientist inspectors. Most can't make it into the private sector. They will never achieve an executive position at big pharma. They won't make a new invention of any kind and they certainly won't win a Nobel Peace Prize. I work with government inspectors in construction. Some are great people and some are assholes. Most really care about doing a good job. I doubt any medical science inspectors want anybody killed. They have a set of guidelines to go by.

Of course, by the playbook: Diversion Your opinions as to the qualifications of individuals working in FDA is worthless.  They form an independent, science and fact guided team with plenty of experience.

Quote
Big pharma sent data pertaining to their vaccines and the inspectors said it doesn't meet the guidelines so in turn, it doesn't get approve to be used on humans. Of course with emergency authorization, they can use their opinion that the vaccines are less dangerous than the virus and get it into people's bodies. Doesn't mean they are right.

And by the playbook again, Discredit. EUA's are based on known results of trials.  See above.

Quote
As this experiment continues, we are learning people's immune systems are getting compromised making them more likely to be infected. I wouldn't doubt USA and Israel infections skyrocket just like UK's did in the middle of summer paling last summers infections. You like data. Go to worldometers and monitor infections. Deaths follow infections and UK is now experiencing more deaths than they did this time last year when nobody was vaccinated.

Disinformation

What you fail to see in worldometers is that the number of deaths vs infections are less than 10% of what they should be, despite the Delta variant that is reported to be more transmissible and virulent.  You also do not consider measures taken to mitigate infections, and lockdowns that were in place back then. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/timeline-lockdown-web.pdf


Quote
CDC reports 94% of the people who died from COVID had another health problem. Only 6% of the people died from COVID alone.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/confirmed-individuals-one-no-comorbidities-low-risk-dying-covid-19/

Misinformation 

An estimated 50% or more Americans have chronic medical conditions, many of which are factors related to COVID deaths.

https://www.aha.org/system/files/content/00-10/071204_H4L_FocusonWellness.pdf


Quote
CDC not only reverses mask recommendations for vaccinated people, they reverse testing advice. If you are fully vaccinated and been near someone infected, they recommend you getting tested. The 94% efficacy advertised in a press release is BS. Seems like 100% of the vaccinated people out there can still get COVID at some degree. Imagine a world where you need multiple jabs of experimental vaccines every year to be 'normal'. Remember, they told us if everybody took the shot, we'd return to normal. That was a lie. Herd immunity will never be achieved even if 100% of the people get vaccinated. They really don't know what the vaccine is or isn't capable of.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210729155145/https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/28/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine

Everybody did not get a shot, thanks to folks like you disseminating disinformation and magnetic BS.  Everybody is not taking prudent precautions, thanks to folks like you disseminating disinformation like masks that will suffocate and kill more than the virus will.  You all are simply wrong, trying to prove your discredited theories by throwing wrenches in the works.

Quote
Israel approves the booster. Soon, boosters will be coming your way too. Some of you guys may not like what I've posted because it challenges everything you believe in and what you heard in an advertisement but now you can make a truly 'inform' decision on whether or not to take and have your children take the experimental vaccines and experimental boosters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-offer-third-shot-pfizer-vaccine-people-over-60-israeli-news-reports-2021-07-29/

It was known at the outset that efficacy of vaccines, over time may drop, and that boosters may be necessary.  The only unknown factors were variants and efficacy over time.  We're still learning about those.  If needed, I'll get another shot, after all I get a flu shot every year so no big deal.  With a bit of time, we may be getting mixed COVID vaccines and possibly even influenza shots combined into one injection.  Studies are underway.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-evaluating-mixed-covid-19-vaccine-schedules-begins
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2

BillyB, you are stuck with trying to win an argument based on opinion alone.  You also fail miserably noting that this is not even about winning an argument, but instead about learning how to best beat a bug.  Your 'do nothing, let the virus run wild' theories are not an option.  It's been tested, resulting in millions of deaths with millions more to go, mostly among those, like yourself, who are aimlessly trying to score imaginary jelly bean points, or billions of others on this planet still waiting for a chance to get vaccinated.

Quit being part of the problem, and start learning instead of proselytizing.  Be part of the solution instead.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 30, 2021, 01:35:55 AM
edit to above post:

It's been tested, resulting in millions of deaths with millions more to go, nowadays mostly among those, like yourself,
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 30, 2021, 02:48:37 AM
BC, so what you are saying is the Poor Billy makes a large number of unsubstantiated or simply false claims in the hope that one day he might be able to say 'gotcha' in respect of one of his claims?

Is such an outcome actually satisfactory? Does being wrong 99.9% of the time not tend to outweigh the 'glory' associated with being right 0.1% of the time?

The stress of being demonstrably wrong so often does have a visible effect upon the poor guy. The potential payoff cannot exceed the ongoing costs.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 30, 2021, 05:27:51 AM
Andrew,

BillyB's notable efforts over many years to somehow weasel himself into a self-purported discourse 'win', or out of an obvious 'loss', is evidence of his win/lose game-like outlook in life, often in the role of 'underdog', or in support of one.  Such fully supports my assertion. 

Imagine the antithesis of the "fruit of the poisoned tree" legal metaphor.  There is no .01%, it's all 100% win in his eyes if he can manage to make anything whatsoever sticks to a barn.  Quite fascinating to watch, as he often builds more barns rather than accumulating effective ammunition and aiming skills that will even get him close to a hit. I really don't care much at all, as I don't have to live with him, but knowing this does serve well for orientation purposes when providing contrast to his outlandish claims, or those of others with similar, self-centered views.  I usually don't mind taking the time to respond, as I learn quite a bit as well.  A bit of mental exercise whilst procrastinating other little chores is quite ok.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on July 30, 2021, 06:33:55 PM
When the Russian vaccine came out, I discredit it. Some of you thought I had a bias against Russia. When American mRNA vaccines came out, I discredit them after I reviewed the data. Earlier this year I said I would take a AstraZeneca or Johnson and Johnson vaccine using older, proven technology. After reviewing the data and listening to experts, I now say all the experimental vaccines are dangerous. I'm capable of changing my mind. BC and Andrew, you guys aren't capable of changing your minds even when the evidence is overwhelming. Even liberal news sources can't hide the facts anymore.


Here's a favorite of yours. CNN says Vaccination alone won't stop the rise of variants and in fact could push the evolution of strains that evade their protection, researchers warned. They said people need to wear masks and take other preventative steps until almost everyone is vaccinated.

Let me translate that for you since CNN gave it to you softly. There is a biological weapon loose. They gave a billion people an experimental vaccine. They now how a billion human petri dishes for anti vaccine biological weapons to develop. Either our governments know what they're doing or they don't know what they're doing. Either way, it's all bad.

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1421093265210806272


US surgeon general recommends fully vaccinated people wear masks outdoors to protect the unvaccinated. You can't make this sh!t up. Vaccinated people have become super spreaders.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/surgeon-general-vaccinated-wear-masks-outdoors


Study done in Massachusetts show 3 out of every 4 infected people are vaccinated. This is similar to reports of nations I've posted here. Vaccinated people get diseases more often than the non vaccinated. Tex will claim the disease is not as severe which is true but when you get a bacterial or virus infection that's different from the original SARS-COV-2, the vaccine doesn't offer protection on other pathogens.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/93830


For those that insist on data.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21030483-outbreak-of-sars-cov-2-infections-including-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-associated-with-large-public-gatherings-massachusetts-july-30-2021


UK's tops government scientists say that next variant may kill one out of every three people and UK's vaccine rollout may speed up the process of creating the variant.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9844701/SAGE-Covid-variant-kill-one-three-people.html


For those that insist on data.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evolution-of-sars-cov-2-26-july-2021


Folks, all these new revelations aren't a surprise. My experts have said any expert in vaccines knew these things could happen before the vaccines were created. We had this knowledge based off many years of studying vaccines and history lessons of botched vaccine rollouts harming and killing people. My experts were alarmed at the current vaccinate every healthy body in the world strategy when that strategy was never needed in the past to beat pandemics or epidemics. You don't have to like me. You don't have to read my posts. I provided links to those experts so you can follow them yourselves. By being fully informed, you can make the best health decisions for you and your family. I guarantee the government answer to these anti vaccine variants created by experimental vaccines is to inject more experimental vaccines into your body. If you're a healthy person that is not too old, let your immune system beat the virus and don't be part of this experiment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 31, 2021, 10:14:08 AM
Yes Billy. The Pfizer vaccine is only  68 per cent effect against the delta variant.  A number of vax people become spreaders because they have no symptoms. The ones that get it do not know they have it. On the other hand 97 per cent of the Covid-19 people who end up in a hospital are unvaccinated and 99.5 per cent of the deaths are among the unvaccinated. They are 284 known anti vaccine groups in the USA encourage the problem.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on July 31, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Billy, to put it in simple terms, you do not have the ability to competently review data on almost anything. You lack the number skills, you lack the ability to assess competency or credibility, and you lack the ability to carry out analysis.

In truth, based upon the evidence you share with us, both on a personal level and the 'evidence' you share, there is a simple guiding rule that you could reasonably rely. Whatever you think, in respect of any matter outside of whatever core competencies you might have such as digging holes or selling stuff on ebay, choose the opposite of your 'informed opinion'.

Some time soon, unless I missed something and you have already made the claim, you will tell us that the currently available vaccines are more dangerous than the virus itself. You will do this because in the UK, and shortly elsewhere, there will be more covid infections in vaccinated people than the unvaccinated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on July 31, 2021, 12:37:05 PM
Texan77,

amplifying your post with more data.

(https://i.postimg.cc/7LLcYC2v/Screen-Shot-2021-07-31-at-18-42-43.png)
Here in Italy, over 72% of the population has received at least their first dose, with over 60% fully vaccinated.
Almost all persons at high risk with serious and chronic health conditions have been vaccinated.
Well over 80 percent of those over 50 have been vaccinated.
Number of daily vaccinations for those 12 years and older up to 50 are increasing.

Despite a rise in infections due to the Delta variant, 10-day average deaths are quite stable at under 20 per day. Almost all infections are the Delta variant.  If multiplied by 5.5 to equal the US population, this represents 110 deaths per day.  The 7-day average in the US is three times that number, 330 per day, and rising. 

BillyB fails to recognize that variants will appear, vaccine or not. No variant of interest, or concern (among thousands of others) thus far have been attributed to the use of vaccines. Although his 'experts' prognosticate doom, for example in the link he posted https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9844701/SAGE-Covid-variant-kill-one-three-people.html  also states:

 
Quote
However, the SAGE report also claimed it was equally realistic that Covid will mutate to become less lethal over time.

Although a more dangerous variant can emerge, naturally, or even due to a vaccine, mRNA vaccines can target other areas of the virus spike if it is necessary. When developing these types of vaccines, scientists try to determine a stable target area least likely to mutate and render the vaccine ineffective.

All this is similar to a forest fire in a populated area without the possibility of evacuation.  The world is fighting the fire, dousing with retardants (vaccines), and digging trenches (masks and distancing).  Despite positive results that can be clearly seen, BillyB insists we're doing it all wrong and that the only solution is “Burn, Baby, Burn!”.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on July 31, 2021, 11:15:23 PM
There is not a link to this or I would provide it. But all is not going well in Covid land

"Biden Considering Mandatory Vaccines for Federal Workers"

 (Bloomberg) -- President Joe Biden said he is weighing a requirement for federal workers to get vaccinated as the highly contagious delta variant spreads throughout the U.S.

A Covid-19 vaccine mandate for federal workers is "under consideration," Biden told reporters on Tuesday after visiting the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in Virginia.

                -------------------------------------------------------------

Our comments: There is a developing lockdown occurring right now in the U.S. and in several countries around the world, with employer and government mandates requiring injections to keep employment, to earn a living, to buy or sell.

Here is a boots-on-the-ground testimonial from a subscriber sharing what is happening right now in France:

"Here in France, it has gone to the extreme with the "Health" Pass. Last week on the 21st, ALL restaurants, bars, coffee shops, and any leisure activities like sporting events, theaters, cinemas, museums, were closed to anyone without "the pass" and all staff at these places are mandated to get the jab to keep their job.

 

"It is now a 6 Month prison sentence if you are caught inside any of these places without the pass (the man who slapped the president in the face got only 3 months prison time). Business owners will get a fine of 45,000 euros and 1 year prison sentence if they do not comply with the use of "the pass" and force all their employees to get the jab. (If you know France, you can commit murder and have less of a sentence).

 

"So, the result? All the low paid employees quit; they can make more on welfare here. (For now) We can still technically "get takeout food" but I just tried last night and every restaurant in our town (that is dine-in with takeout) has closed their doors due to the lack of staff.

 

"As of last week, ALL doctors, nurses and health industry workers have been mandated to get the jab or lose their license, practice, job, business etc. (ALL health care here is Govt paid positions and there are no private health care Doctors or Hospitals etc.)

 

"Since the Health care system is state run and funded, it has been run into the ground. All the good doctors left France 5 Years ago, all the hospitals look like they are 3rd world hospitals since there is no money to repair them, half of the equipment doesn't work and not every hospital is stocked with supplies needed for daily needs (masks, gels, disposable gowns etc.).

For 5 years Nurses have been understaffed and doing double the work because the Healthcare system is nearly bankrupt.... So, add to this the mandatory jab.

 

"So, the result? Well, they took to the streets by the millions and now all the hospitals just lost another 50% of staff capacity. My doctor just went into early retirement (a.k.a. he quit) and I have yet to find a replacement.

 

"As of Aug 1st, ALL large malls, retail stores and grocery store owners and their staff need to be jabbed and the health pass is required to enter for employees and customers. This would be the equivalent to closing ALL Targets, Walmarts, Costcos, Home Depots, and all major grocery stores. (Basically, any building over 20,000 square meters) to those without "the pass".

 

"Result.?? Aug 15th Truckers will be going on strike nationwide; Blocking all access roads in and out of Paris.

 

"Yesterday an entire airport in Northern France closed due to the majority of staff quitting.

 

"As of Sept 15th, ALL public areas and access will be off limits. No farmers markets, no parks, no national parks, lakes, rivers, beaches, recreation areas, campsites etc. and no gathering over 100 people, no churches, no weddings, etc.

 

"As of Oct 1st, ALL small vendors such as, delis, pizza trucks, sandwich shops, butchers, bakers, vegetable stands etc.

 

"So as of Oct 1st, I will only be able to purchase food by internet and pick up (if allowed).

 

"Food shortages, Truckers strike, hospitals and airports shutting down unemployment going through the roof. It's going to be a bumpy ride folks.

Is it me or does all this seem a bit extreme for a "pass" that isn't exactly working?"

Here is a grass roots testimonial from a subscriber sharing what is happening right now in Australia:

"We in Australia have had increased lockdowns for weeks now as the authorities are basically blackmailing the public into vaccination via harder lockdowns and imaginary Covid cases as the reason. Only 11% of Australians are double injected.... the Cabal are not happy."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 01, 2021, 03:43:59 AM
What some consider restrictions, others consider freedom.

Those that consider green passes as restrictions seem to be those that for whatever reason don't want to get vaccinated, a minority in most countries with widespread immunization programs, including the US.  Folks that don't want to get vaccinated can get their pass via regular testing.  For sure a little more hassle with tests alone, but better for all.

For the rest of us, it's just a piece of paper, or a mask that we're all used to by now.  Will I feel more comfortable being in crowded areas and enclosed spaces where most have been vaccinated and/or tested recently and wearing masks?  Sure I do.  I feel restricted with places that don't require such and avoid them if at all possible.

A small portion of the unvaccinated minority produce the most noise.  Even the truck strike in France mentioned in the post above has not been confirmed by their Trucker unions.  Till now, could be only rabble-rousing from a few independent truckers.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 01, 2021, 06:04:24 AM
 We have choices and choices have consequences. In almost all situations people can choose to not participate in a personal and community based action to reduce the harm of covid-19.

I might think that the people who refuse to take part in the program are both foolish and selfish, but they have a right to be foolish and selfish.

Their choices have outcomes. One obvious outcome is that more sensible community members will choose to reduce their own risk of harm. That means that an outcome chosen by those who choose not to vaccinate is that the rest of society will tend to shun them. Shunning today takes the form of documentation showing the vaccination status of the program participants.

I respect the choice of the Billies of the world to restrict their travel, social and employment options, just as I respect their choice to not vaccinate. At all points, so far, the choice of action and outcome is with the Billies. I think it should remain that way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Herrie on August 01, 2021, 07:16:08 AM
....
Despite a rise in infections due to the Delta variant, 10-day average deaths are quite stable at under 20 per day. Almost all infections are the Delta variant.  If multiplied by 5.5 to equal the US population, this represents 110 deaths per day.  The 7-day average in the US is three times that number, 330 per day, and rising. 
Similar statistics here in NL really, cases were skyrocketing for a bit, but hospital admissions, ICU beds used and deaths were only slightly increasing. So seems the vaccines do their job pretty OK.

The biggest cause of the difference is probably the level of obesity in the US compared to Italy and NL. Obesity is the main contributor for causing more severe sickness with covid it seems.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases has a lot of data where you can compare countries. Case fatality rate in the US is way higher compared to most other countries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 01, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
BillyB fails to recognize that variants will appear, vaccine or not.


I already said that but the difference is you're making anti-vaccine variants. Your body allows the virus to co-exist with defenses created by the vaccine. The virus isn't getting killed/inactivated by the vaccine so it will mutate till it learns to defeat the vaccine. The mRNA inventor said what is happening now is a vaccinologists worst nightmare because we aren't solving the problem and we're creating more problems. Last year we had different strains develop which is not a big problem. This year we have half a dozen variants due to vaccinated people.

 
July 8 Fauci said ""It's so easy to get vaccinated. Viruses don't mutate if they can't replicate, and you can prevent them from replicating by vaccinating enough people so that the virus has nowhere to go," Guess what! Viruses are replicating in the bodies of vaccinated people. Wonder why our officials are continuing to recommend vaccination. Maybe they need more human petri dishes. It's apparent experimental vaccines don't immunize people and doesn't prevent the spread and creates variants that would've never existed if nobody was vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/08/1014214448/fauci-says-current-vaccines-will-stand-up-to-the-delta-variant


Walmart and Disney mandates vaccine for their employees. If the government can't force you, they'll ask corporations to force you or force you out of a job.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/walt-disney-walmart-mandates-covid-19-vaccine-for-us-employees-alters-mask-policy_3927424.html?utm_source=pushengage

https://t.me/IvanRaiklin/1498


Last year medical professionals worked through the pandemic without being vaccinated and they were hailed as heroes. Now they have been threatened to be fired if they don't get vaccinated. Go figure.

https://t.me/JovanHuttonPulitzer/1844


Inventor of mRNA says CDC data shows vaccines don't work and they are using junk science to make policy decisions.

https://electionwiz.com/2021/07/31/dr-malone-cdcs-own-data-shows-masks-junk-science-is-driving-authoritarianism/


Biden told report he never said vaccinated people can stop wearing masks then it cuts to a video where Biden tells people to get vaccinated so they can stop wearing masks. Politicians promises. They are lying to us or they don't know anything about the vaccine they are pushing.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28090

https://t.me/realx22report/3265


Protests all over Europe and Australia over government restrictions, lockdowns, and vaccine passports. Nobody social distancing or wearing masks but the police and military used to beat up protestors. Free nations are becoming police states.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3768

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9846939/Soldiers-sent-enforce-lockdown-Sydney.html

https://rumble.com/vkkmr2-the-guy-who-was-right-a-year-ago-about-covid.html


Europe is going to demand booster shots so big pharma jacked up the prices of the vaccines. And if you get harmed by the vaccine, don't worry, they got you covered. They got medications for your clots, heart or other organs should you need to buy some.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3771

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28217


UK and Italy just seen 100 times more infections and twice the deaths this summer compared to the same time last summer when nobody was vaccinated. America's outbreak is now skyrocketing. The curve of deaths will follow the curve of infections. There's no end to this madness due to the authorities following junk science. They will keep pumping us up with vaccines and other medicines. Vaccines aren't the answer. Booster shots aren't the answer. We need to let our immune systems beat this pandemic. The only people should be vaccinated are the elderly and sick.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 01, 2021, 05:24:49 PM
No the vaccine does not kill the virus. It make you immune system recognize the virus so it will kill it sooner. The vaccine is gone from your body in a few days. It does not kill or stop anything.  It is even not there. GONE!!! What part of this do you not get!!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on August 01, 2021, 06:25:31 PM

Quote


Walmart and Disney mandates vaccine for their employees. If the government can't force you, they'll ask corporations to force you or force you out of a job.


Actually, what the government should do is pay all covid medical costs for those that get vaccinated and for those that do not get vaccinated (by choice) must either be insured for the costs or pay out of pocket.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 01, 2021, 09:08:41 PM
Actually, what the government should do is pay all covid medical costs for those that get vaccinated


Government shouldn't waste money on a weak and dangerous vaccine that harms people, kills people, makes people more easily infected and creates mutants that can defeat the vaccine. This whole thing can explode leading to depopulation. There has never been a successful vaccine created for any Coronavirus and it's becoming clear why.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1495

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28128


No the vaccine does not kill the virus. It make you immune system recognize the virus so it will kill it sooner. The vaccine is gone from your body in a few days. It does not kill or stop anything.  It is even not there. GONE!!! What part of this do you not get!!!

Tex, you're not watching the interviews I supplied of leaders in the vaccine industry. I can't help you if you don't help yourself. I trust what they are saying over you, BC and Andrew. I don't expect you to trust what I say so that is why I provide you guys the experts so everybody here can make an 'informed' decision. I also showed you government documents that say significant risks and benefits are unknown. How you guys can promote benefits when they don't even know them is beyond me.

For those that were promised by the government that if you got vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask, worry about lockdowns, and you'll get a normal life back, did the government keep their promises to you? Hell no because the vaccines they promoted didn't do what they said it was going to do. Either they lied or they don't understand what they're doing.

Here's Pelosi in Apr 2021 saying government can require anybody to be vaccinated. Another lie as they are trying to force government employees and our all volunteer military to get vaccinated.

https://t.me/LinWoodChannel/4270


Republican Senators released the redacted parts of Fauci's emails to prove he lied. Fauci did work with the Wuhan lab to create new and dangerous coronaviruses. Last year our medical experts and media lied about the origins of the virus. This year they lied about working on a bat coronavirus and the funding of it. People are dying and they are lying but you go ahead and keep worshipping their advice over others that care about your health.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/breaking-gop-senators-reveal-politicized-hhs-redacted-fauci-letter-hide-collaboration-dr-daszack-wuhan-lab/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 02, 2021, 12:42:40 AM
Look government made the statement with the best data they had a the time. The vaccine works well against the delta variant but still of those who become in contact with the virus 32 per cent of the people will still get it. The vast majority of the vaccinated who still get the delta variant will have no to mild symptoms. This variant differs from the past variants in that it is more likely to spread from a person who has the vaccine than other variants. This reduces our effective vaccination rate to only 34 per cent from the 50 per cent we vaccinated. To kill the virus we need an effective vaccine rate of about 70 per cent. To get it we will need to vaccinate nearly 100 per cent of the population. It is not going to happen so we are in trouble. So now they considering more measures. Remember Israel?

Most viruses become more infectious with new variants and milder over time and kill less people. This one is evolving to where it is becomes more infectious over time but it has a higher kill rate. Most virus build up a heard immunity until they run out of host. This one has found away around that.

Their is one variant that natural immunity will never be reached without vaccine. As after getting it you can catch it again in every 60 days. The vaccine stops it. We humans are in for more serious trouble than I think we understand.

What makes this virus so dangerous is that it has infected so many people at the same time it has more chances to create many variants. It was made to start off with being maybe one of the worlds most contagious pathogens. It has infected maybe a billion people many of whom do not know they have it and they can become carriers where the virus has a huge chance to form new variants that are even more infectious than the last and in time able to over come any from of immunity.

Yes the so called experts have more depth of understanding than I have but I feel we are dealing with something here they have never seen. I am thinking there are no real experts. Mask, distancing and vaccines are the only weapons they have.

The fact we humans do not work together is taking a really bad epidemic and making it worse. Government are inefficient at their best but they are trying their best. No government wants to population to die off.

I am not predicting this but we could get a variant who could go around the planet in a few weeks and kill off 25 per cent of the population. Look at some of Covid-19 sister pathogens and what their kill rates were. I believe cov-sar1 had a 10 per cent kill rate. I am going by memory here. This is nothing to play with.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 02, 2021, 03:49:48 AM
Texan77,

the vaccines do work for the purposes intended, and they work quite well.

Reduced virulence - check
Reduced hospitalizations - check
Reduced deaths - check

It was hoped vaccines would also reduce transmission, but this is not working with the Delta variant, that is much more transmissible, and seems to cause worse outcomes.

However, in combination with typical precautions like masking in crowded/enclosed spaces, social distancing and washing hands, infections can be reduced to much lower numbers.

In Italy(and some other countries), this is the case, vaccine + prudent measures are working very well so far.  Deaths trending towards single digits, and only 230 in ICUs.  Compare that with deaths in the hundreds, and more than ten thousand in intensive care in the US.  Daily vaccination figures here are about as good as it gets, with most of those that were initially reluctant catching up.  Some age brackets and those with serious health issues have simply run out of people to vaccinate, with near 100% participation.  Efforts now are on the youngest crowd, 12-40.  Vaccination was done strictly by age, health and service categories. Adjusting for population, the US is far worse off, driven by 30% of the elderly population still not vaccinated, and plenty of vulnerable folks as well and much larger numbers of folks that are hesitant for whatever reason, along with far too many that don't even take simple precautions.

Bottom line, vaccines work.  It's folks like BillyB that are the true problem.  He still touts the same debunked line like 'look at Italy', without considering the numbers and that the same time last year we came out of strict national lockdown, but maintained many measures like travel restrictions between regions, masking requirements etc and folks that for the most part complied, not like sheeple, but truly interested with not getting infected, or infecting others.

In the US, we as a whole are the root of our problem, essentially giving the virus free rein.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 02, 2021, 09:09:55 AM
Yes BC the vaccines currently work at controlling the virus to some extent and are much better than no vaccine. Our vaccinate rate is still way too low to control the current break out. Sadly near half the worlds population is somewhat like Billy.

The good news is more people are seeing the reality better and getting the vaccine but on that front we have a long way to go.

Still what will the next variant bring? I believe most humans are not taking this disease seriously enough and do not see how this could get really bad.  I was looking at a video where a congressman was complaining that he is really mad because he is going to have to wear a mask in congress. It is only a mask but that is too much to help control the virus.  The people of the USA and the rest of the world are going to need to get serious and work together to control this or it is not going to happen.

I do not know why the governments are not funding boosters? It is obvious we are going to need them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 02, 2021, 12:24:55 PM
Still what will the next variant bring?

Maybe a more dangerous variant, or a less dangerous variant.  Nobody knows.

But, even this one we are dealing with now can be managed well.  If we want to. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 02, 2021, 04:40:59 PM
I am reading today that 70 per cent of the country has had at least one dose. I knew we had over 60 per cent with at least one dose but I did not know we were doing that well. So hopefully the twenty percent with only one does will be getting the second does in the next thirty days. It is still not enough but it is better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on August 02, 2021, 05:12:05 PM
Actually, what the government should do is pay all covid medical costs for those that get vaccinated


Government shouldn't waste money on a weak and dangerous vaccine that harms people, kills people, makes people more easily infected and creates mutants that can defeat the vaccine. This whole thing can explode leading to depopulation. There has never been a successful vaccine created for any Coronavirus and it's becoming clear why.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1495

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28128


No the vaccine does not kill the virus. It make you immune system recognize the virus so it will kill it sooner. The vaccine is gone from your body in a few days. It does not kill or stop anything.  It is even not there. GONE!!! What part of this do you not get!!!

Tex, you're not watching the interviews I supplied of leaders in the vaccine industry. I can't help you if you don't help yourself. I trust what they are saying over you, BC and Andrew. I don't expect you to trust what I say so that is why I provide you guys the experts so everybody here can make an 'informed' decision. I also showed you government documents that say significant risks and benefits are unknown. How you guys can promote benefits when they don't even know them is beyond me.

For those that were promised by the government that if you got vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask, worry about lockdowns, and you'll get a normal life back, did the government keep their promises to you? Hell no because the vaccines they promoted didn't do what they said it was going to do. Either they lied or they don't understand what they're doing.

Here's Pelosi in Apr 2021 saying government can require anybody to be vaccinated. Another lie as they are trying to force government employees and our all volunteer military to get vaccinated.

https://t.me/LinWoodChannel/4270


Republican Senators released the redacted parts of Fauci's emails to prove he lied. Fauci did work with the Wuhan lab to create new and dangerous coronaviruses. Last year our medical experts and media lied about the origins of the virus. This year they lied about working on a bat coronavirus and the funding of it. People are dying and they are lying but you go ahead and keep worshipping their advice over others that care about your health.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/breaking-gop-senators-reveal-politicized-hhs-redacted-fauci-letter-hide-collaboration-dr-daszack-wuhan-lab/

Billy,  if you are going to quote  someone Please use the entire quote if possible.  The way you have used my quote completely distorts what I was saying.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
Yes BC the vaccines currently work at controlling the virus to some extent and are much better than no vaccine.


The government fine print says significant risks and benefits are unknown. How you can claim we are benefiting is beyond me. A depoplulation event may happen. We won't know till later but it is an unknown risk they KNOW can happen. The current vaccines aren't giving people immunity and isn't killing the virus so the virus is allowed to live in our bodies and learn to defeat the vaccine induced defenses in what is now 2 billion human petri dishes.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=~OWID_WRL


Government put out this creepy video that threatens businesses they won't do business with government and health workers, last years heroes, to be fired if they don't get vaccinated. You won't see this on tv but it's a clear sign government wants more control over your body and life. When the world learned Nazi Germany was experimenting on people in camps by injecting experimental vaccines and drugs people's bodies, the world was horrified. Now they not only figured out how to get people to happily take experimental drugs and vaccines but promote it as a good thing!

https://t.me/disclosetv/3797


Social media bots putting out propaganda better than humans can. Seen a lot of it. Here's a sample.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28317


5 time World fitness champion dies age 65 a week after taking his third vaccine.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28314


WHO changes definition of 'herd immunity'. Before, the definition was herd immunity could be achieved by vaccines and/or natural immunity but now they say it can only be achieve by vaccines. They are lying. Humans have acquired herd immunity from many pathogens long before vaccines were invented 100 years ago. If we never were able to acquire heard immunity, we'd be extinct.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1503


NY Gov Cuomo who won an award for his handling of the pandemic after ordering COVID infected elderly into old folks home killing 10's of thousands of them artificially inflating COVID deaths is asking private businesses to refuse service to the unvaccinated. You guys understand there was never a successful vaccine created to defeat any coronavirus in the human body in history and the thought of them pulling a good one out of their asses in 6 months was highly unlikely. That means the pandemic will never end. The virus will be with us forever and humans will receive multiple injections of experimental vaccines every year forever. We need to let our own natural immune systems figure it out. At this pace, government wants to restrict rights to people unless they adopt the government approved program.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3789


Government memo leaks saying the carrot isn't working anymore to convince Americans to get vaccinated so it's time to use the stick.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26929


Former commissioner of the FDA says the FDA is more about protecting big pharma more than people. But go ahead and believe everybody in government has your best interest.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1500


People in Europe mass protesting against restrictions, vaccine passports and lockdowns. Some getting beat up by cops. I see a lot of nations turning into police states at this pace.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3784

https://patrickbyrne.locals.com/upost/911456/free-video-brave-german-cops-beat-shit-out-of-11-year-old

https://patrickbyrne.locals.com/upost/911453/just-like-people-aren-t-accepting-the-covid-media-fraud-they-also-aren-t-accepting-the-elect
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 02, 2021, 11:06:40 PM
The government fine print says significant risks and benefits are unknown. How you can claim we are benefiting is beyond me. A depoplulation event may happen. We won't know till later but it is an unknown risk they KNOW can happen. The current vaccines aren't giving people immunity and isn't killing the virus so the virus is allowed to live in our bodies and learn to defeat the vaccine induced defenses in what is now 2 billion human petri dishes.

Here is the fine print:

Quote
FDA is conducting intensive monitoring of COVID-19 vaccine safety in the U.S. using a variety of approaches. Based on available information, FDA strongly believes that the known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination greatly outweigh the known and potential risks of COVID-19.
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/safety-availability-biologics/covid-19-vaccine-safety-surveillance


Quote
Government put out this creepy video that threatens businesses they won't do business with government and health workers, last years heroes, to be fired if they don't get vaccinated. You won't see this on tv but it's a clear sign government wants more control over your body and life. When the world learned Nazi Germany was experimenting on people in camps by injecting experimental vaccines and drugs people's bodies, the world was horrified. Now they not only figured out how to get people to happily take experimental drugs and vaccines but promote it as a good thing!

https://t.me/disclosetv/3797

And?  What's 'creepy' about that?  What is creepy is you comparing your government to Nazi atrocities.

Quote
Social media bots putting out propaganda better than humans can. Seen a lot of it. Here's a sample.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28317

And what do you interpret from this? What's worse than a computer bot?  A human bot.  You prove this well.

Quote
5 time World fitness champion dies age 65 a week after taking his third vaccine.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28314

Most folks who get heart attacks do die.  Again, what's your point?


Quote
WHO changes definition of 'herd immunity'. Before, the definition was herd immunity could be achieved by vaccines and/or natural immunity but now they say it can only be achieve by vaccines. They are lying. Humans have acquired herd immunity from many pathogens long before vaccines were invented 100 years ago. If we never were able to acquire heard immunity, we'd be extinct.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1503

Funny... a 'lawyer' who doesn't read the fine print linked in the WHO post.  Here it is:

https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---12-october-2020


Quote
NY Gov Cuomo who won an award for his handling of the pandemic after ordering COVID infected elderly into old folks home killing 10's of thousands of them artificially inflating COVID deaths is asking private businesses to refuse service to the unvaccinated. You guys understand there was never a successful vaccine created to defeat any coronavirus in the human body in history and the thought of them pulling a good one out of their asses in 6 months was highly unlikely. That means the pandemic will never end. The virus will be with us forever and humans will receive multiple injections of experimental vaccines every year forever. We need to let our own natural immune systems figure it out. At this pace, government wants to restrict rights to people unless they adopt the government approved program.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3789

Our immune systems are figuring it out, with the assistance of vaccines.  Vaccines are great and very effective teachers.


Quote
Government memo leaks saying the carrot isn't working anymore to convince Americans to get vaccinated so it's time to use the stick.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26929

And? What's wrong with that?




Quote
Former commissioner of the FDA says the FDA is more about protecting big pharma more than people. But go ahead and believe everybody in government has your best interest.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1500

That's the way it was back in the 1960s.  He fought for improvements within the FDA and seems to a large extent those improvements worked.


Quote
People in Europe mass protesting against restrictions, vaccine passports and lockdowns. Some getting beat up by cops. I see a lot of nations turning into police states at this pace.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3784

define 'mass protesting'.  We're not talking huge numbers.  Most folks over here support the restrictions.

Quote
https://patrickbyrne.locals.com/upost/911456/free-video-brave-german-cops-beat-shit-out-of-11-year-old

https://patrickbyrne.locals.com/upost/911453/just-like-people-aren-t-accepting-the-covid-media-fraud-they-also-aren-t-accepting-the-elect

More BillyBot bottom of barrel scraping.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 03, 2021, 12:27:53 AM

Government put out this creepy video that threatens businesses they won't do business with government and health workers, last years heroes, to be fired if they don't get vaccinated. You won't see this on tv but it's a clear sign government wants more control over your body and life. When the world learned Nazi Germany was experimenting on people in camps by injecting experimental vaccines and drugs people's bodies, the world was horrified. Now they not only figured out how to get people to happily take experimental drugs and vaccines but promote it as a good thing!


Oh and BTW, seems health insurance companies will be making adjustments for those that are not vaccinated.  I doubt they will be giving discounts, but instead raising rates, or even excluding COVID coverage.

At the moment, the government you seem to despise so much covers most COVID related costs, even for those that are unvaccinated.  There will come a time when that will stop as well.  Makes no sense for the government to pay for the stupidity of those making bad choices.

Being stupid is not a right and carries consequences.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 03, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
BC thank you for countering the postings of BillyB. It gives hope that there are still sane people amongst us.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2021, 01:33:13 AM
More protests and beatings in Europe. You guys have it in your heads that government has your best interest in mind. Some people in government think there's too many people in the world so depopulation and abortion are good things. Others love big government and control. They see opportunity here. They'll tell you that they want to save your life so everybody, including those with natural immunity, no exceptions, must take an experimental vaccine and get a vaccine passport. Although they claim they care about your health, if you don't comply, they will force you out of a job, won't let you travel and won't let you shop for food. Should you attempt to make an informed decision that they don't like, they will make you penniless and your life miserable, if you don't die from starvation first. They don't sound very caring if you ask me. Hitler would be proud of them. They told you that we will go back to normal lives if you took the vaccine. They lied. They know the sheeple have short term memories.

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1421761180314468364



Check out Biden. He doesn't wear a mask and the people around him don't mask up. Politicians aren't afraid of the virus. Why are you guys afraid? Biden grabs the hand of a boy and gives him his nasty virus infected mask as a souvenir.

https://t.me/realx22report/3290


Last year Dean of Baylor medical university, a top 20 medical university, told Congress the type of vaccines needed for viruses that cause respiratory diseases have repeatedly failed. They've known since the 60's the damage they do to animals. Also founder of mRNA reminds us vaccinologists worst fears are happening with the current vaccines. Keep in mind, experts warned governments last year the vaccines they seek had a history of failure based on what happened to animals. Very little animal testing done with the current vaccines. When this is over, direct your anger to the appropriate people.

https://banned.video/watch?id=6108785cebbfdc2563240e70


I put this UK report out a couple of months ago. Here is the latest July 23 report. Out of 460 people dying, 289 vaccinated dead and 165 unvaccinated dead. Report to report, the ratio isn't changing. A vaccine that allows a person to catch the virus they're vaccinated against. We shouldn't be calling it a vaccine anymore. Check out every major European nation. Some like Italy and UK have 100 times more infections this summer over last when a vaccine didn't exist. Maybe some of you can spin this data as a good thing? Deaths are following infections. Again, more this summer than last when vaccines didn't exist.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: notpuskhin2013 on August 04, 2021, 02:35:14 AM
BillyB,

Are you INSANE ?

Vaccines have varying success rates and NO-ONE who produces them is saying if you have the recommended doses, that you are 100 percent safe ..


Sadly, I cannot prove the point, other than to ask you to look at the case rate v death rate for this wave in the UK v the previous ones were testing rates were efficient.


Are we getting the same rate of hospital cases, ITU admissions or deaths .. NO WAY


The case rates are MUCH higher in those NOT yet vaccinated.. the young


Take my Mum's age range..


Before being double jabbed nursing homes were a death trap ..  NO WAY was I letting my mother go into one


Now ?  There have been ZERO cases in her home and they allow visitors inside the home ( with a Lateral Flow Test ( showing negative) and proof of being double jabbed


The big risk to the UK is a new variant of the Beta variant ( first discovered in S.Africa) .. THAT is why we will probably have a THIRD jab in the Autumn.


As ever, picking a single stat  is misleading and makes you look silly.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2021, 10:22:08 AM
Quote
Government memo leaks saying the carrot isn't working anymore to convince Americans to get vaccinated so it's time to use the stick.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/26929

And? What's wrong with that?


Earlier you told people on the forum you respect their decision to not get the jab. Truth is you support a government that will make people's lives miserable which included starvation if they don't comply. You should apply for a government position. They need more people like you. When it's time the government say children needs the jab so we can get to herd immunity, will you support the government taking kids away from parents that don't comply? How big a stick should they use on people?


Take my Mum's age range..

Before being double jabbed nursing homes were a death trap ..  NO WAY was I letting my mother go into one


Last year before the election we have 5 Democratic governors that sent COVID infected elderly into nursing homes killing 10's of thousands and inflating death toll numbers to make the virus seem deadlier than it actually was. It's common sense you don't send sick people into nursing homes yet they did it anyway and won't face any consequences.

As for the other stuff you mention, you'll have to read this thread to understand what experts are saying. They warned the government that the vaccines won't work and can compromise people's immune systems that lead to early death and depopulation. Some will say we had some success with the vaccine on the original virus but beyond that, it's a failure. In America, 93% of the infections are from the Delta variant. In one region here and in a few nations, they say 74% of the infections are among those that are vaccinated. Unvaccinated people are not getting infected as easy. Why? Probably because our immune systems aren't compromised allowing us to get infected from pathogens as easily.

Seriously, read some of the links I posted from experts if you care about your health. You need to understand the government is pushing a vaccine that doesn't work and you will be part of an endless cycle of jabs with experimental vaccines. There's never been a cure for any coronavirus in history. There still isn't. They lied to you when they said we can achieve herd immunity with the vaccines. How many times will you let them lie to you before you learn they lie?


Funny thing is the proposed booster shot they're going to give people now isn't designed for the Delta variant. They are creating all new vaccines for the variant but they probably ask you to take two jabs of that recipe before Winter. It's possible some people will be getting 5 jabs of experimental vaccines in less than a year. Soon they'll be supplying you with a handy app that tells you when it's time to get your next jab. Miss the appointment and they'll revoke your vaccine card denying you privileges.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cdc-delta-variant-accounts-for-93-percent-of-all-infections/ar-AAMW2AE?ocid=msedgntp


“Today, America would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government.”

(Henry Kissinger, at the 1991 Bilderberger Conference held in Evians, France. 1991.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 04, 2021, 11:56:51 AM
Billy, do you really think that the current vaccines do not work? That the effect of being vaccinated is the same as not being vaccinated?

Quote
You need to understand the government is pushing a vaccine that doesn't work and you will be part of an endless cycle of jabs with experimental vaccines.
Billykins in his year of madness 2021

Not even the nuttiest of nutters is honestly making that claim and, well, the empirical evidence tells anyone who can read the opposite.

Billy, if you're going to be the forum lunatic then at least try. Even lunatics tend to recognise elements of the real world.

Oh, well done for falling down the rabbit hole of vaccinated people getting infected. You have rendered me the 21st-century version of Nostradamus -except that I am real and I can actually foretell the future!

If you could do even rudimentary maths you'd understand what is going on. Can we blame the US education system or was the damage done, as I have long suspected, before you even reached your promised land?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2021, 01:48:28 PM
I'm going to listen to my experts before you Andrew. You got educated by television. As far as being a nutter, you  think it's normal the media and politicians making public announcements that those who are unvaccinated shouldn't be allowed in stores to buy food or seed and tools to grow food. When vaccination for children is approved, you will think it's a good thing child protective services take children away from parents who refuse to put an experimental vaccine in their bodies. Why do you care anyway? You got no family to love and be responsible for their health.

We don't need passports and draconian laws for HIV, flus, colds, herpes, or other diseases. We certainly don't need passports and draconian laws for COVID which is only a little more dangerous than the flu.

Keep giving up your freedoms in exchange for the promise government will rescue you. You will get a few experimental vaccines every year. After you get used to it, maybe they'll change the program to a few vaccines every month or everyday. You're so programmed to agree with everything they say that you will still defend them if they adopt a jab everyday program. The leaders in this pandemic have no no clue how stop COVID yet they make promises they'll get us to herd immunity. Maybe they know it can't be stopped but might as well capitalize on it. The reason you're not seeing draconian laws dropped on you now is not because of you or the kindness of government but because of nutters like me who'd resist. Thank all those protestors on the streets for your current freedoms. Hopefully they'll continue to win. I think those supporting a government that is willing to starve people while claiming they are trying to save lives are the nutters.

Here is the UK chart for infections and deaths. Compare this summer and last summer and try and tell me vaccines are working. This is not a freak event happening only in the UK. It's the same in Spain, Italy, France, and Germany. In America, our summer outbreak is behind yours but it continues to go up.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 04, 2021, 02:36:15 PM
I'm going to coin a new word for BillyB

Ignorerant

ig·nore·rant
/iɡˈnôr rant/
adjective

To knowingly ignore facts whilst ranting falsehoods and nonsense.
.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 05, 2021, 05:55:54 AM
BC, a well coined term.

But does he ignore facts or does he lack the ability to understand? An inability to handle, or visualise the effect of simple numbers would lead to the spewed words that Billy shares with us. We know this is a problem for him.

I find myself conflicted.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 05, 2021, 10:27:31 AM
Andrew,

I try to give benefit of doubt, that he is ignoring facts purposefully and is not ignorant.  He uses the same deny, divert, discredit technique over and over, along with 'repeat till they believe it', often used by hard-core sales folks.  Get someone to agree to something, anything, even out of frustration, and you've got a sale.

Granted, he may well be drunk on his own snake oil.  If so, there is neither hope, nor cure. One can only try to warn others. 

Hmm...

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on August 05, 2021, 12:10:36 PM
I'm going to coin a new word for BillyB

Ignorerant

ig·nore·rant
/iɡˈnôr rant/
adjective

To knowingly ignore facts whilst ranting falsehoods and nonsense.
.

BC can you please tell me what dictionary you are using?  Or are you creating a new word by combining the words ignore and rant ??

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 05, 2021, 12:22:15 PM
Hi yankee,

Sure!

coin verb
coined; coining; coins
Definition of coin (Entry 2 of 3)
transitive verb

1a: to make (a coin) especially by stamping : MINT
b: to convert (metal) into coins
2: CREATE, INVENT
coin a phrase


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coin
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on August 05, 2021, 12:37:43 PM
Granted, he may well be  is drunk on his own snake oil. There is neither hope, nor cure. One can only try to warn others. 

This is the case.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2021, 11:03:42 PM

Not only are experimental vaccines dangerous, a guy put out a video of being in a drive thru for COVID testing to show testing is dangerous too. He showed ingredients of the test they were going to give him. It contains ethylene oxide. NIH's Cancer dot gov is a good place to read about it. It causes cancer, damages our DNA, used as a pesticide and it sterilizes. This product can damage our reproductive organs and health. In this massive effort to 'save' humanity, we are given products that can prevent reproduction, hurt or kill us. If a person doesn't want the jab, companies and government will make them take a dangerous test once or twice a week. Jab or test, either option is dangerous.

https://t.me/IvanRaiklin/1594

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/ethylene-oxide


12 of the 13 most vaccinated countries on earth are now listed as travel risks by the CDC. Vaccines are not suppressing the virus, they're advancing the spread and allowing for anti vaccine variants to emerge. Leading experts on vaccines warned this could happen last year yet the government decided to push vaccines on every healthy person in the world using a strategy that was never needed in other pandemics that we've successfully beaten. It's unfortunate this virus escaped or was released from a lab but we need to let our natural immune systems deal with it, learn and pass on these protections to future generations. The only people needing the jab are those that are at high risk of harm from COVID, the elderly and sick.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/12-13-vaccinated-countries-world-now-listed-cdc-travel-risk/


Another politician surrounded by people puts on mask only when the cameras are rolling. They think we are stupid.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28571


Harvard medical school professor censored on social media because he doesn't support lockdowns. The college dropouts working as fact checkers at big tech know what's best for you.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1191


Fauci said today the level of Delta variant virus in a vaccinated person is the same as the level in an unvaccinated person. Fauci said the Delta variant changes the entire landscape. Yesterday they said 93% of the people in America has the Delta variant and a few days ago 74% of the people infected are vaccinated which means the unvaccinated accounts for only 26% of the infections. I guarantee you they will use more experimental vaccines to fight the anti vaccine variant. Go figure.

https://twitter.com/suzy1776/status/1423170791588388865?s=21


I don't follow Dr. Vladimir Zelenko but he did mention some of the leading doctors in the industry that I do follow so I read about an interview he just gave. Here's some of what he had to say.

-New data shows the viral titers are higher is vaccinated victims than in unvaccinated people

-This may mean the feared ADE (antibody dependent enhancement) has started. This is the worst nightmare scenario and fear of Dr. Luc Montaguier, Dr. Michael Yeadon, Dr. Delores Cahill, Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi, Dr. Richard Malone, Dr. Joseph Mercola, and myself.

-This poses the greatest risk of genocide to the human race in the history of humanity

.-If you are vaccinated then consider yourself at higher risk to die from ADE then a 95 year old nursing home resident.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 06, 2021, 12:56:47 AM


Harvard medical school professor censored on social media because he doesn't support lockdowns. The college dropouts working as fact checkers at big tech know what's best for you.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1191


Fauci said today the level of Delta variant virus in a vaccinated person is the same as the level in an unvaccinated person. Fauci said the Delta variant changes the entire landscape. Yesterday they said 93% of the people in America has the Delta variant and a few days ago 74% of the people infected are vaccinated which means the unvaccinated accounts for only 26% of the infections. I guarantee you they will use more experimental vaccines to fight the anti vaccine variant.


-This may mean the feared ADE (antibody dependent enhancement) has started. This is the worst nightmare scenario and fear of Dr. Luc Montaguier, Dr. Michael Yeadon, Dr. Delores Cahill, Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi, Dr. Richard Malone, Dr. Joseph Mercola, and myself.


Yes I must have ADE to a large scale. I have taken all kinds of vaccines for many years. This one is no more likely to produce it then any of the others. Above you are changing numbers. It not Fauci who is changing anything, it you. Depending which vaccine you are talking about the vaccine is about 70 per cent effective against the delta variant.  Pfizer is about effective 95 per cent in preventing serous disease if you get a break thru infection. Their are three code differences in the delta variant spike protein from the original and it causes the immune response to be slower towards this variant. Yes the virus is likely to produce more variants that are resistance to the vaccine. Also the virus would likely produce variants against that would re-infect people who already had the disease without a vaccine. What does not work is just let everyone catch it. That is proven!!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 06, 2021, 07:16:33 AM

Not only are experimental vaccines dangerous, a guy put out a video of being in a drive thru for COVID testing to show testing is dangerous too. He showed ingredients of the test they were going to give him. It contains ethylene oxide. NIH's Cancer dot gov is a good place to read about it. It causes cancer, damages our DNA, used as a pesticide and it sterilizes. This product can damage our reproductive organs and health. In this massive effort to 'save' humanity, we are given products that can prevent reproduction, hurt or kill us. If a person doesn't want the jab, companies and government will make them take a dangerous test once or twice a week. Jab or test, either option is dangerous.


https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs/fact-check-nasal-swabs-sterilised-with-ethylene-oxide-are-safe-to-use-the-sterilisation-process-is-tightly-regulated-by-international-standards-idUSL1N2LU1H0
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on August 07, 2021, 01:40:53 AM
Billy is right to question things. There are some truths in the links he posts.

The Karens of this world want you to believe that the vaccine is the only protocol to fight the virus, it's not. Many also want to pressure you into getting the jab, which is the F'd up part of this equation. You see it ramping up and it's follow the money time.

Unvaccinated? Sorry, you can't work here. Want to travel? Please, jump through these hoops. Sorry, but you can't enter a restaurant, go to the gym, movies, theatre, etc. unless you have your "vaccine pass".

Thank God I love in Moscow where they don't play that crap.

The Karens of the world want to be protected from the unvaccinated, even though most have spent a lifetime abusing themselves by overeating, smoking, lazily sitting around the house, pumping themselves with who knows what drug, legal or otherwise, or any number of other unhealthful activities.

The Karens will try to shame you, call you names, have a hissy fit among other things, over a virus that has over a 99% chance of survival without the vaccine.

Do vaccines work? Sure. Do you need to take the vaccine to protect yourself? For some no doubt, for all, no. Will you have a choice if it's up to the Karens? Unfortunately, that is reaching "no" status, and no one should ever have the right to force something into your body that you're not comfortable with.

If you're worried about your health, by all means, go get the jab. What do you have to worry about if the vaccine is so good? You're protected.

If you're worried about my health, don't, that's my business. And that's the biggest problem I have with all of this; it's becoming increasingly obvious that the Karens are sticking their nose where it doesn't belong, as Karens tend to do, all to the delight of big Pharma/governments et al.

If you're so concerned about "deaths", then protest against the food industry where 250K people die globally each month from obesity and force changes to or shut down fast food restaurants. Protest against chemical companies that have been poisoning food for decades causing all kinds of harmful effects to one's organism, slowly killing millions over time for profit.

Protest against cigarette companies for obvious reasons, or the medical profession who charge astronomical prices for life saving drugs/treatments in an abusive for profit system, slowly killing millions over the years (e.g. 100's of thousands of lives in America could have been saved from COVID alone by having affordable treatment for those without acceptable insurance or those who lost their employee based insurance when they lost their job).

Protest against educational systems that refuse to teach about healthy habits like nutrition, diet and exercise which strengthens your immunity, the absolute best way to fight a  :censored: ing virus.. Protest against oil companies who destroy the environment, indirectly killing people in the way of their drilling. Protest against the Military Industrial Complex that kills millions of innocent people at will and laugh about it, for profit.

But hey, "they" have your best interests in mind :chuckle:.

It's equally unfortunate that this virus has been politicised and monetised. That to even have a discussion of alternative, yet equally effective treatments, gets shunned or suppressed only goes to the deluge of misinformation floating around the internet and the distrust of your average person on the street. How it's spun by MSM in a way to divide people is classic as per the "playbook".

The vaccines would have never been authorised for emergency use as early as thy were had these discussions taken place. There are effective treatments that are being used in many countries around the world, especially poorer countries that haven't the resources to even have access to vaccines.

Yet the Karens of the world want you to believe they have the answer and therefore should have the right to your health choices and what goes into your body, while most of them have shoved a boatload of poison into their pieholes on a daily basis for years. No thanks.

Listen to these fools and wonder why people don't trust anyone, anymore.

https://www.facebook.com/729070443/videos/1205470503259607/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 09:26:56 AM
Danchik,

The issues you describe are part of the responsibility and obligations when living in society, where it is about 'We' and not only 'I'.

'Don't worry about my health... but pay for it if I get sicker, or die'
Is this a 'WE' statement?

'I don't want to wear a mask' ; 'I don't want to respect distancing'.
Considering masks and distancing are more about not infecting others than oneself,  this a 'WE' statement?

But don't blame it all on government...

'I'm not going to vaccinate to work here'..   "Ok, we'll hire someone who is vaccinated.  That way, WE don't have to risk of replacing you and losing time and money training someone else if you do get sick.  WE have a thousand workers and this saves us a bunch of money, and our health insurance folks like it as well, as it reduces their costs and future risk considerably."

But hey, one can always vote with their feet and go to a 'better place', like where you live, and society does not require such.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 07, 2021, 10:33:42 AM
Danchik,

The issues you describe are part of the responsibility and obligations when living in society, where it is about 'We' and not only 'I'.

'Don't worry about my health... but pay for it if I get sicker, or die'
Is this a 'WE' statement?

'I don't want to wear a mask' ; 'I don't want to respect distancing'.
Considering masks and distancing are more about not infecting others than oneself,  this a 'WE' statement?

But don't blame it all on government...

'I'm not going to vaccinate to work here'..   "Ok, we'll hire someone who is vaccinated.  That way, WE don't have to risk of replacing you and losing time and money training someone else if you do get sick.  WE have a thousand workers and this saves us a bunch of money, and our health insurance folks like it as well, as it reduces their costs and future risk considerably."

But hey, one can always vote with their feet and go to a 'better place', like where you live, and society does not require such.

Or he will get sick without symptoms fortunate guy but he is responsible for killing that old lady he just gave covid to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 07, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
But the selfish folks do not see the people they make sick or kill.

Not like killing people through careless or intoxicated driving.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 01:44:37 PM
It's getting pretty dire in the US.

130 thousand infections and 750 deaths just yesterday.

In comparison, Italy 6600 infections and 22 deaths.

Adjusting for population, US should have only 36,000 infections and 121 deaths.

That's 113% difference in infections, and 144% difference in deaths.

Italy started vaccinations one month later than the US, Over 12 years old now at 63% fully vaccinated. US 50%

Italy went strictly by age brackets, oldest first along with medical, first responders, police and military.

I reckon a lot of the difference in deaths has to do with a much higher percentage of older Italians and those at most risk due to health conditions being near 100% fully vaccinated, and lower number of infections due to masking in public places as well as a higher percentage of vaccinated.  Hey US folks.... if you see some strange man with a mask on walking down the street week after next, that's me.  Looks like I'll have to take extra precautions on this trip : /

(https://i.postimg.cc/mkh3Z6g0/Screen-Shot-2021-08-07-at-21-26-27.png)
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRYcbdMT/Screen-Shot-2021-08-07-at-21-26-04.png)
https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/

Green fully vaccinated, yellow first dose
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 01:53:10 PM
But the selfish folks do not see the people they make sick or kill.

Not like killing people through careless or intoxicated driving.

Indeed, Andrew.  Sad, but true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2021, 02:04:47 PM

Not only are experimental vaccines dangerous, a guy put out a video of being in a drive thru for COVID testing to show testing is dangerous too. He showed ingredients of the test they were going to give him. It contains ethylene oxide. NIH's Cancer dot gov is a good place to read about it. It causes cancer, damages our DNA, used as a pesticide and it sterilizes. This product can damage our reproductive organs and health. In this massive effort to 'save' humanity, we are given products that can prevent reproduction, hurt or kill us. If a person doesn't want the jab, companies and government will make them take a dangerous test once or twice a week. Jab or test, either option is dangerous.


https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-eo-swabs/fact-check-nasal-swabs-sterilised-with-ethylene-oxide-are-safe-to-use-the-sterilisation-process-is-tightly-regulated-by-international-standards-idUSL1N2LU1H0


What you an your fact check article fail to understand is that they are proposing to give this dangerous test twice a week to people for the rest of their lives if they don't take the jab. You can smoke one cigarette, drink one diet soda, or take one COVID test and you won't get cancer or have it ruin your DNA but if you do it on a regular basis for the rest of your life, it's a different story.


Danchik,

The issues you describe are part of the responsibility and obligations when living in society, where it is about 'We' and not only 'I'.

'Don't worry about my health... but pay for it if I get sicker, or die'
Is this a 'WE' statement?

'I don't want to wear a mask' ; 'I don't want to respect distancing'.
Considering masks and distancing are more about not infecting others than oneself,  this a 'WE' statement?

But don't blame it all on government...

'I'm not going to vaccinate to work here'..   "Ok, we'll hire someone who is vaccinated.  That way, WE don't have to risk of replacing you and losing time and money training someone else if you do get sick.  WE have a thousand workers and this saves us a bunch of money, and our health insurance folks like it as well, as it reduces their costs and future risk considerably."

But hey, one can always vote with their feet and go to a 'better place', like where you live, and society does not require such.


BC, you don't get it and I don't think you ever will. Being vaccinated isn't helping anybody! You've been duped. I talked to a medical person working in and old folks home. He must get vaccinated to keep his job. I told him he can still catch COVID as easily as me and transmit COVID as easily as me so he's not protecting the elderly by being vaccinated. The only people that should be getting vaccinated are the old folks who's immune systems are too weak to adequately fight COVID.


But the selfish folks do not see the people they make sick or kill.

Not like killing people through careless or intoxicated driving.

You're another guy that thinks you're protecting people by being vaccinated although the data has shown vaccinated people still get COVID and transmit it as easily or more often than unvaccinated people. But if it makes you feel better thinking you're saving lives, go for it!


Listen carefully folks. Boris Johnson said the reduction in infections and deaths has not been achieved by the vaccination program.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28841


Study shows those that naturally recovered from COVID have better antibody response than those who are vaccinated. Yes folks, your own immune system antibody protection is better than the ones created by experimental vaccines.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/08/05/study-finds-greater-antibody-response-in-recovered-covid-19-patients-than-vaccinated-ones/


Nobel Peace Prize winner and inventor of the PCR test says Fauci and other medical scientists are misusing his PCR test to get inflated numbers of infected. He said this pandemic was not the first time Fauci misused the test to get infection rates up on a virus.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28824


WHO chief says all 24 letters of the Greek alphabet will run out and will need more names for COVID variants. Thanks vaccinated human petri dishes for creating numerous mutations! We didn't have these variants last year before the vaccine.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/variants-could-named-star-constellations-greek-alphabet-runs/


Doctor says the vaccine only targets a spike protein when our natural immune system will attack multiple components of the virus. Because the vaccine only attacks the spike protein and the vaccine doesn't sterilize the virus, the virus will try to mutate. Also, the vaccine only blunts the disease, it doesn't prevent it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/doctor-who-did-early-research-on-covid-vaccine-this-is-not-a-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated/vi-AAMZJjf?ocid=msedgntp

Because the vaccine only blunts the disease, it's apparent that the vaccine is no better than treatments that also blunts the disease. We have treatments that are from existing medicines that have past all safety tests. We should be using that to help those struggling to recover from COVID.


Moderna and Pfizer lost control of the placebo control group that were used for the original vaccine program as many of them were allowed to take the vaccine. Hard to conduct studies for efficacy and safety when your placebo group has been contaminated. That's okay, they can guess what the booster shot will do for you.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/moderna-pfizer-intentionally-lost-clinical-trial-control-group-testing-efficacy-safety/


35% of COVID hospitalizations in the UK are from those who have two jabs. Although I've been talking about the UK a lot, it doesn't mean I'm trying to pick on them. I actually respect the UK for putting out so much data compared to other nations that aren't as transparent. With more data available from the UK, I can show you guys the COVID vaccine isn't working like vaccines are supposed to. In comparison, we don't know what is going on in China with COVID or their vaccines.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3876


If you guys think your health departments are staff with people that always care about the little guy's best interests, think again. CDC covered up the damage agent orange did to soldiers and their children born with defects in their attempt to keep dollars in chemical companies pockets.

https://technofog.substack.com/p/how-the-cdc-betrayed-victims-of-agent
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2021, 02:20:57 PM
The Karens of the world want to be protected from the unvaccinated,


The Karens are uneducated because being vaccinated they can still get COVID easily and pass it to others. Smallpox was eradicated in America in 1972. When a person takes a smallpox vaccine like I have, they shouldn't have to worry about getting smallpox and passing it on to others. That's how vaccines work and even if vaccines aren't working on some people, we can eradicate a disease with herd immunity where a large percentage of the population is immune to the point the virus phases out. ALL COVID vaccines allow people to still get infected. None have proven worthy of being called a "vaccine".


https://www.facebook.com/729070443/videos/1205470503259607/


People should watch the video in the link. The same people who are pushing vaccines hardest now are skeptics of the vaccines. They probably faked their jabs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on August 07, 2021, 05:35:22 PM
The Karens of the world want to be protected from the unvaccinated,


The Karens are uneducated because being vaccinated they can still get COVID easily and pass it to others. Smallpox was eradicated in America in 1972. When a person takes a smallpox vaccine like I have, they shouldn't have to worry about getting smallpox and passing it on to others. That's how vaccines work and even if vaccines aren't working on some people, we can eradicate a disease with herd immunity where a large percentage of the population is immune to the point the virus phases out. ALL COVID vaccines allow people to still get infected. None have proven worthy of being called a "vaccine".


https://www.facebook.com/729070443/videos/1205470503259607/


People should watch the video in the link. The same people who are pushing vaccines hardest now are skeptics of the vaccines. They probably faked their jabs.

did you know that the smallpox vaccine is considered the deadliest vaccine ever?  and yet you claim to have had it but are afraid to get the covid vaccine.  that sounds rather hypocritical to me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 07, 2021, 05:43:33 PM

https://www.facebook.com/729070443/videos/1205470503259607/


People should watch the video in the link. The same people who are pushing vaccines hardest now are skeptics of the vaccines. They probably faked their jabs.

I did. The clips in the video look fake. You piece sound bits together and and find a piece of video where the mouth movement is close and make any body say any thing if you have enough footage of them. Low resolution also helps to cover it up. This video was taken long before the vaccine came out when the democrats did not want it release before the elections. Still it looks like the did a number of it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 07, 2021, 07:19:15 PM

Not only are experimental vaccines dangerous, a guy put out a video of being in a drive thru for COVID testing to show testing is dangerous too. He showed ingredients of the test they were going to give him. It contains ethylene oxide. NIH's Cancer dot gov is a good place to read about it. It causes cancer, damages our DNA, used as a pesticide and it sterilizes. This product can damage our reproductive organs and health. In this massive effort to 'save' humanity, we are given products that can prevent reproduction, hurt or kill us. If a person doesn't want the jab, companies and government will make them take a dangerous test once or twice a week. Jab or test, either option is dangerous.


Billy, I really don't know why you persist in engaging these few folks here that have traded any speck of liberty and freedom they had for safety. The really sad part is they've had the jab and still ain't safe and won't even recognize it. The truth of the experimental vaxx is far from known yet, they play pretend they know. Who is fooling who?

You should be commended for trying to help them with some truth while they continue to drown in the  manufactured plandemic science of lies. It falls on deaf ears. Let them believe what they wish to believe. Every post you make they gather for a circle jerk and reaffirmation of their own beliefs. Those beliefs do not allow you to have your own beliefs. To them, every thing you post is merely speculation, witchcraft and whackery without ever considering the spell they are under. It's a crying shame that "common sense" isn't common anymore.

The very idea that the elitist who fight for population reduction and control is going to save the world from a man-made virus that they do not need saving from is the epitome of "sheeple". They have all bought into the illusion that freedom is outdated and no longer needed. They'll trade it for a jab and as long as the fact checkers tell them it's the right thing to do, they will believe it. Billy won't change their mind. The only thing that might is time. For that we'll have to wait awhile
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2021, 08:47:19 PM
did you know that the smallpox vaccine is considered the deadliest vaccine ever?  and yet you claim to have had it but are afraid to get the covid vaccine.  that sounds rather hypocritical to me.


There were 68 deaths in a 9 year period caused by the smallpox vaccine. I'm not alarmed.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/353655

There are over 12,000 reported deaths from the COVID vaccine in 8 months which is more deaths than all other vaccine deaths combined in America's history. That alarms me. If deaths were happening at the same rate between both vaccines, then it would be hypocritical of me to favor one vaccine over another.

https://www.openvaers.com


Billy, I really don't know why you persist in engaging these few folks here that have traded any speck of liberty and freedom they had for safety. The really sad part is they've had the jab and still ain't safe and won't even recognize it. The truth of the experimental vaxx is far from known yet, they play pretend they know. Who is fooling who?


As I'm typing this, there are a couple dozen people reading the thread. I understand some people's minds won't be changed but there's other people interested in facts. Sure, some people here want me silenced and millions have been silenced on social media platforms so only one side can educate the masses but I will help people where I can so they can make a truly informed decision pertaining to their health. I want to give Manny a special thanks for allowing free speech here.

I'm not worried about the double vaxxers trying to shame me and other unvaccinated people. Soon the triple vaxxers will shame the double vaxxers unless they become a triple vaxxer themselves. It's apparent they will have to depend on experimental vaccines for life proudly one upping each other every few months. Although they spread viruses like an unvaccinated person, they will convince themselves of the BS they are saving other people's lives so they feel better about getting multiple jabs every year for life. I prefer the natural immunity no jab program.


Italians burning their proof of vaccination paperwork/passports. Where's BC? He's all in on every government program. Both groups of people, vaccinated and unvaccinated, can catch and spread the virus equally so why give one group of people benefits over the other? Because that group are loyal sheeple that complies with everything they are told to do.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28882


100% vaccinated cruise ends in disaster due to COVID outbreak.

https://thelibertydaily.com/covid-outbreak-hits-carnival-cruise-despite-every-guest-and-staff-member-being-vaccinated/


More social media propaganda to manipulate your minds to motivate you to vaccinate your kids.

https://t.me/SteelTruthChannel/2858


Vaccines will kill your kids faster than COVID. Please don't be dumb by vaccinating your kids.

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1536

https://t.me/SidneyPowell/1535


90% of Israel's population is fully vaccinated and deaths are increasing and infections are skyrocketing all in the middle of summer. Lord help them when winter comes. Western nations are following Israel's footsteps.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3907

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/


Biden wants to require every visitor to the USA to be vaccinated but if you're illegal, unvaccinated and sick with COVID, you can come in.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2F52EV

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244


Obama wants to set a good example and announce he's scaling back his birthday party to family and only a few friends. He cares about us and don't want to have a super spreader event. The media also educates us properly that Democrats are the ones that care about us.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2021/08/07/obama-should-have-had-bigger-60th-birthday-not-scaled-back/5477273001/


Now look at the huge tent connected to the huge mansion. Does that look like a small party to you? I can't wait for the photos to come out. You wouldn't think there's a pandemic going on. Rules for thee but not for me! The elite think we're stupid.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/let-eat-cake-obama-lied-massive-party-tents-set-martha-vineyard-compound-advance-lavish-b-day-bash-saturday/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 07, 2021, 10:09:33 PM

There were 68 deaths in a 9 year period caused by the smallpox vaccine. I'm not alarmed.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/353655



Billy, all of that has been fact checked by the Big tech, fake media and Ricky Tidwell's mama. It's stated to be false and there are endless websites to prove it is only your opinion. More witchcraft and whackery. Where did you get such a big set of brass Kahona's to post truth so cleverly disguised as misinformation? Geesh man, who TF to believe? How is one suppose to wade through the endless piles of bullshit and ascertain some facts?  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 10:41:39 PM

What you an your fact check article fail to understand is that they are proposing to give this dangerous test twice a week to people for the rest of their lives if they don't take the jab. You can smoke one cigarette, drink one diet soda, or take one COVID test and you won't get cancer or have it ruin your DNA but if you do it on a regular basis for the rest of your life, it's a different story.

Quote
EPA estimates that if an individual were to continuously breathe air containing ethylene oxide at an
average of 2 × 10-4 µg/m3 (1 × 10-4 ppb) over his or her entire lifetime, that person theoretically would have no
more than a one-in-a-million increased chance of developing cancer as a direct result of breathing air containing
this chemical.

Any remainder on the swabs (remember it is a gas) is miniscule.  If a million people run around their whole lives with 10 swabs stuck up each nostril, they probably still wouldn't come close to the limits.  Two tests a week won't cause any harm.

Quote
BC, you don't get it and I don't think you ever will. Being vaccinated isn't helping anybody! You've been duped. I talked to a medical person working in and old folks home. He must get vaccinated to keep his job. I told him he can still catch COVID as easily as me and transmit COVID as easily as me so he's not protecting the elderly by being vaccinated. The only people that should be getting vaccinated are the old folks who's immune systems are too weak to adequately fight COVID.

This is why the FDA has not given authorization to vaccinate those under 12 years old.  For all other groups the FDA states:

Quote
that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19
pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known
and potential risks of the product.

[/quote]

What I 'don't get' is a bunch of conspiracy hunters that justify inaction, when all the evidence clearly is against them.  Look at my example in the post above and explain how Italy proves your case.  Then add a host of other countries with high vaccination rates that still require prudent precautions in enclosed or crowded public spaces.  Italy requires masks when going shopping, even if vaccinated.  Germany requires vaccination or test prior to going shopping along with masks.  Many other countries have similar requirements.

How do you explain the disparity in the following table?  How is it that our direct neighbor, Canada is doing so much better than we are in the US?

(https://i.postimg.cc/NFhkTQF8/Screen-Shot-2021-08-08-at-06-24-54.png)

Bottom line, you can't.  What concrete factors apply to the US that don't apply to the same extent elsewhere?  I'll tell ya, it is because of the misinformation and disinformation being promoted by folks like you, BillyB.  There is absolutely no other reason that justifies the disparity, infections and deaths in the US.  You are doing your very best to keep the US at the top of the death list by promoting your swab killing, chip embedding, magnetizing, better off doing nothing swill.  All you can do is deny, divert and discredit facts that are in your face.  The only thing you have succeeded in is creating and promoting a self-fulfilling prophecy.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 07, 2021, 11:00:33 PM
So how is Russia really doing?

But publicly available mortality statistics, as well as other data, show an ever growing, yawning gap between Russia’s official COVID-19 figures and what are likely the far larger real numbers. The data suggest the true death toll may already be over a half-million people. Far from doing better than most, the data suggests that, in reality, Russia has suffered one of the deadliest COVID-19 epidemics in the world.

The toll is growing even steeper now as Russia endures a deadly third wave that has remained largely unchecked amid few restrictions and poor vaccination uptake -- the latter caused in part by some of the highest levels of vaccine skepticism in the world.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/data-suggests-russias-covid-19-death-toll-higher/story?id=79145618
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 11:03:58 PM

Billy, I really don't know why you persist in engaging these few folks here that have traded any speck of liberty and freedom they had for safety. The really sad part is they've had the jab and still ain't safe and won't even recognize it. The truth of the experimental vaxx is far from known yet, they play pretend they know. Who is fooling who?

On what evidence do you, FP base your assertion on?  Misused VAERS data?  That's it?

Quote
You should be commended for trying to help them with some truth while they continue to drown in the  manufactured plandemic science of lies. It falls on deaf ears. Let them believe what they wish to believe. Every post you make they gather for a circle jerk and reaffirmation of their own beliefs. Those beliefs do not allow you to have your own beliefs. To them, every thing you post is merely speculation, witchcraft and whackery without ever considering the spell they are under. It's a crying shame that "common sense" isn't common anymore.

Because most of what BillyB is exactly as you described, with little or no substantiation and total disregard of any fact.  Deny, divert and discredit, pure and simple.  That is all he has in hand.

Quote
The very idea that the elitist who fight for population reduction and control is going to save the world from a man-made virus that they do not need saving from is the epitome of "sheeple". They have all bought into the illusion that freedom is outdated and no longer needed. They'll trade it for a jab and as long as the fact checkers tell them it's the right thing to do, they will believe it. Billy won't change their mind. The only thing that might is time. For that we'll have to wait awhile

There is nothing wrong with letting the facts play out, however you and BillyB are doing the exact opposite, akin to throwing a wrench in the works in your quest to produce your ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 11:06:29 PM
So how is Russia really doing?

But publicly available mortality statistics, as well as other data, show an ever growing, yawning gap between Russia’s official COVID-19 figures and what are likely the far larger real numbers. The data suggest the true death toll may already be over a half-million people. Far from doing better than most, the data suggests that, in reality, Russia has suffered one of the deadliest COVID-19 epidemics in the world.

The toll is growing even steeper now as Russia endures a deadly third wave that has remained largely unchecked amid few restrictions and poor vaccination uptake -- the latter caused in part by some of the highest levels of vaccine skepticism in the world.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/data-suggests-russias-covid-19-death-toll-higher/story?id=79145618

My wife and kids just returned from RU.  Many there are simply buying vaccination certificates instead of getting vaccinated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 07, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
Billy, all of that has been fact checked by the Big tech, fake media and Ricky Tidwell's mama. It's stated to be false and there are endless websites to prove it is only your opinion. More witchcraft and whackery. Where did you get such a big set of brass Kahona's to post truth so cleverly disguised as misinformation? Geesh man, who TF to believe? How is one suppose to wade through the endless piles of bullshit and ascertain some facts?  :ROFL:

If a disease nears eradication, vaccine side effects may, at some point, become more harmful than the disease itself.  This is why they are no longer needed.

Who to believe?  Follow the facts and don't invent them along the way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2021, 12:20:04 AM

What you an your fact check article fail to understand is that they are proposing to give this dangerous test twice a week to people for the rest of their lives if they don't take the jab. You can smoke one cigarette, drink one diet soda, or take one COVID test and you won't get cancer or have it ruin your DNA but if you do it on a regular basis for the rest of your life, it's a different story.

Quote
EPA estimates that if an individual were to continuously breathe air containing ethylene oxide at an
average of 2 × 10-4 µg/m3 (1 × 10-4 ppb) over his or her entire lifetime, that person theoretically would have no
more than a one-in-a-million increased chance of developing cancer as a direct result of breathing air containing
this chemical.

Any remainder on the swabs (remember it is a gas) is miniscule.  If a million people run around their whole lives with 10 swabs stuck up each nostril, they probably still wouldn't come close to the limits.  Two tests a week won't cause any harm.


You provide zero facts, data, or studies for what has been proposed. You offer an opinion. For arguments sake, how about I agree with you that 10 swabs containing a chemical that causes cancer and destroys DNA isn't going to harm anybody? Now lets talk about what they propose. Some private companies are mandating unvaccinated employees get 2 tests a week. That means they would have to take 104 tests a year and if they work for the company 40 years, they would have to take 4160 tests. There are no studies available to tell us what 4160 tests will do to a person's body and DNA. It's also a massive waste of time, resources and money except chemical companies that make pesticides will be filthy rich.



Quote
BC, you don't get it and I don't think you ever will. Being vaccinated isn't helping anybody! You've been duped. I talked to a medical person working in and old folks home. He must get vaccinated to keep his job. I told him he can still catch COVID as easily as me and transmit COVID as easily as me so he's not protecting the elderly by being vaccinated. The only people that should be getting vaccinated are the old folks who's immune systems are too weak to adequately fight COVID.

This is why the FDA has not given authorization to vaccinate those under 12 years old.  For all other groups the FDA states:

Quote
that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19
pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known
and potential risks of the product.


The FDA will move the goalposts soon to include kids under 12 if citizens don't resist. The reason lockdowns have been lifted and government eased up on masks is because of people like me, not you. If everybody was like you in full agreement with every stupid order, it would be progressively worse and we'd be in a triple masked quadruple jab lockdown.

Do you know why the FDA says the vaccine 'may' be effective? Because the significant risks and benefits are unknown. If you used the word 'may' in court, you will lose because it's a word that expresses 'doubt'. If you said the guy 'may' have hit your wife or 'may' have stole your car or 'may' have murdered your neighbor, the jury will have doubt any of that actually happened. Come back to me when the FDA says the vaccine 'will' be effective.


What I 'don't get' is a bunch of conspiracy hunters that justify inaction, when all the evidence clearly is against them.


LOL. You're too funny.

They told you the evidence shows the virus wasn't human to human transferable.

They told you the evidence shows travel restrictions don't work and later told you they do work.

They told you two weeks to slow the spread so we can go back to a normal life but lockdowns were a lot longer than two weeks.

They told you masks don't work and then do work.

They told you vaccines are the cure so take them and we'll get back to a normal life yet vaccinated people will have to be locked down and wear masks eventually like the unvaccinated.

They told the science shows 70% of the people need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. Then they move the goal posts to 90-100% but as you can see from Israel, herd immunity will never be achieved.

They told you follow the science and science says the virus originated from an animal and no way it could come from a lab.

They told you no way Fauci could've funded the virus when they thought Fauci's emails would never be released.

The science has lied to you. The scientists have lied to you. Your government has lied to you. They've lied lied lied to you. When will you learn they lie to you? You keep defending these liars. Why? If they repeatedly lie to you, they don't care about you, yet you instead get mad at people who brought you truth because it shatters everything you believe in.


Good news and bad news. Bad news is these lockdowns, telling us to stop work, and skyrocketing inflation has increase the number of poor putting hundreds of millions around the world into poverty. The good news is a few people got filthy rich. Some doubled their wealth in a year. Jeff Bezos and Zuckerberg. Can someone explain to me how social media can purge millions of people off their platform in the attempt to silence their voices and make even more of a profit? Normally when you get rid of customers or users, you lose money. Of course Facebook and Google helped steal the election so Zuckerberg and the guys at Google are getting rewarded. Bloomberg who owns a Fake News site got rewarded for his fake stories.

https://inequality.org/great-divide/updates-billionaire-pandemic/




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 01:46:11 AM

You provide zero facts, data, or studies for what has been proposed. You offer an opinion. For arguments sake, how about I agree with you that 10 swabs containing a chemical that causes cancer and destroys DNA isn't going to harm anybody? Now lets talk about what they propose. Some private companies are mandating unvaccinated employees get 2 tests a week. That means they would have to take 104 tests a year and if they work for the company 40 years, they would have to take 4160 tests. There are no studies available to tell us what 4160 tests will do to a person's body and DNA. It's also a massive waste of time, resources and money except chemical companies that make pesticides will be filthy rich.

Deny, divert, discredit.

Indeed, my opinion, as is yours. How much ethylene oxide is absorbed with a typical swab?  When you know that from peer reviewed research, come back with your calculations as to how much the body absorbs, and I'll re-evaluate.  No, your 'experts' alone don't count for squat.


Quote
The FDA will move the goalposts soon to include kids under 12 if citizens don't resist. The reason lockdowns have been lifted and government eased up on masks is because of people like me, not you. If everybody was like you in full agreement with every stupid order, it would be progressively worse and we'd be in a triple masked quadruple jab lockdown.

Indeed, goalposts may be moved if a notable percentage of children under the age of 12 exhibit high hospitalizations, and death.  This is completely normal and not a conspiracy.

Quote
Do you know why the FDA says the vaccine 'may' be effective? Because the significant risks and benefits are unknown. If you used the word 'may' in court, you will lose because it's a word that expresses 'doubt'. If you said the guy 'may' have hit your wife or 'may' have stole your car or 'may' have murdered your neighbor, the jury will have doubt any of that actually happened. Come back to me when the FDA says the vaccine 'will' be effective.

Deny, divert, discredit.

We're not in court are we?  The verbiage will likely change once the vaccines are fully approved.

Quote
LOL. You're too funny.

They told you the evidence shows the virus wasn't human to human transferable.

They told you the evidence shows travel restrictions don't work and later told you they do work.

They told you two weeks to slow the spread so we can go back to a normal life but lockdowns were a lot longer than two weeks.

They told you masks don't work and then do work.

They told you vaccines are the cure so take them and we'll get back to a normal life yet vaccinated people will have to be locked down and wear masks eventually like the unvaccinated.

They told the science shows 70% of the people need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. Then they move the goal posts to 90-100% but as you can see from Israel, herd immunity will never be achieved.

They told you follow the science and science says the virus originated from an animal and no way it could come from a lab.

They told you no way Fauci could've funded the virus when they thought Fauci's emails would never be released.

The science has lied to you. The scientists have lied to you. Your government has lied to you. They've lied lied lied to you. When will you learn they lie to you? You keep defending these liars. Why? If they repeatedly lie to you, they don't care about you, yet you instead get mad at people who brought you truth because it shatters everything you believe in.

Deny, divert, discredit.

Nobody lied to me.  I know how science works.  When new conditions arise, such as the much more infective Delta variant, science adapts.

Quote
Good news and bad news. Bad news is these lockdowns, telling us to stop work, and skyrocketing inflation has increase the number of poor putting hundreds of millions around the world into poverty. The good news is a few people got filthy rich. Some doubled their wealth in a year. Jeff Bezos and Zuckerberg. Can someone explain to me how social media can purge millions of people off their platform in the attempt to silence their voices and make even more of a profit? Normally when you get rid of customers or users, you lose money. Of course Facebook and Google helped steal the election so Zuckerberg and the guys at Google are getting rewarded. Bloomberg who owns a Fake News site got rewarded for his fake stories.

https://inequality.org/great-divide/updates-billionaire-pandemic/

In any crisis, some lose, and some gain.  The stock market is based solely on perceived and not actual worth.  A gamble if you wish.  As for social media, we've been through that already.  Deny, divert, discredit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 02:41:17 AM
BTW BillyB

(https://i.postimg.cc/3RXgqBpM/Screen-Shot-2021-08-08-at-10-37-41.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 05:18:25 AM

Italians burning their proof of vaccination paperwork/passports. Where's BC? He's all in on every government program. Both groups of people, vaccinated and unvaccinated, can catch and spread the virus equally so why give one group of people benefits over the other? Because that group are loyal sheeple that complies with everything they are told to do.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28882

It's a show.

The so called 'green passes' aren't green.  What the video shows being thrown into the small fire are simple green pieces of paper, largely symbolic.

Here's what a real one looks like

(https://itextpdf.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/Picture4.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 08, 2021, 07:00:20 AM
I am sure the people in the crowd who have real certificates will be showing them whenever they need to as they travel home and in the coming days.

Of course some people are angered about the need for this certification but they are not daft enough to hurt themselves through their protests. Sad that some people would think otherwise.

I wonder which organisation purchased and handed out the little green pieces of paper.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 07:26:58 AM


On what evidence do you, FP base your assertion on?  Misused VAERS data?  That's it?


Because most of what BillyB is exactly as you described, with little or no substantiation and total disregard of any fact.  Deny, divert and discredit, pure and simple.  That is all he has in hand.



There is nothing wrong with letting the facts play out, however you and BillyB are doing the exact opposite, akin to throwing a wrench in the works in your quest to produce your ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy.

Any discussion with you BC on these subjects are circular because you appear to be completely devoid of any common sense. You hide behind a hijacked science without ever considering that it is lying to you. Your answer to what you claim as Billy's "opinions" is countered by your "facts" which if you applied any common sense to you might find contains very big nuggets of truth. The "science as you continually quote is more bad information piled on top of other bad information and you suck to it as if it's the holy grail, it isn't.

The facts are as we know to date, the virus is man made. It was manufactured by the same entities that now offer you the cure. It is becoming more apparent with each passing day that the "cure" is indeed worse than the problem. You find no questions or problems with that. Where is your common sense? When those entities eventually instruct you to jump from a cliff to cure the world of this virus, will you do it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 07:41:06 AM
No idea who bought the paper, Andrew.  Was just a little fire though in a tin pan, nothing like a mass demonstration BillyB touts.  I wonder why they didn't make the effort to burn real ones.

The certificate usually resides on your phone, or can be downloaded from a website after you receive an authorization code and printed as many times as you want.

If you lose one, no problem, just download another.  If you lose the code, no problem either, just pass by the nearest pharmacy, or your doctor, and they'll print one for you.

It's really been made as easy as eating a slice of pizza.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 08, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
FP, you'd not write such silly stuff if you knew how VAERS worked.


Anyone can send in a report. The reports are then analysed to see which reports should be followed up.


If 1000 people sent in reports saying, falsely, that they broke a leg after being vaccinated then that number would show up. In your poorly informed mind you and Billykins would then be telling us that covid vaccination causes broken bones.


When analysed those reports would be discarded because they are not relevant.
The system is open to ensure that the program can pick up on any trends needing examination. Sadly, there are many easily led people who do not understand what is going on.


Don't worry, there are many people like you. You are not alone. Sadly you are society's burden and a target for people who do not have your best interests in mind.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 08:34:25 AM

Any discussion with you BC on these subjects are circular because you appear to be completely devoid of any common sense. You hide behind a hijacked science without ever considering that it is lying to you. Your answer to what you claim as Billy's "opinions" is countered by your "facts" which if you applied any common sense to you might find contains very big nuggets of truth. The "science as you continually quote is more bad information piled on top of other bad information and you suck to it as if it's the holy grail, it isn't.

Circular?  I reckon you haven't been reading BillyB's claims.  If my replies seem circular, look at the source.  In any case, you can always proffer a specific topic to run through together and see where it leads.

Quote
The facts are as we know to date, the virus is man made. It was manufactured by the same entities that now offer you the cure. It is becoming more apparent with each passing day that the "cure" is indeed worse than the problem. You find no questions or problems with that. Where is your common sense?

Common sense says there is nothing that backs up your assertions above, the only proof you can offer is based on logical fallacies such as, argumentum ad ignorantiam, and/or argumentum ad hominem among many others.

Quote
When those entities eventually instruct you to jump from a cliff to cure the world of this virus, will you do it?

And yet another logical fallacy argumentum ad populum

FP, you and BillyB have fallen into the fallacy trap, over and over.  You are being sold a bill of goods and don't even know it. 

Learn a bit about the numerous logical fallacies being used to convince you into believing the unbelievable.  You might find it helpful.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 08:35:17 AM
FP, you'd not write such silly stuff if you knew how VAERS worked.


Anyone can send in a report. The reports are then analysed to see which reports should be followed up.


If 1000 people sent in reports saying, falsely, that they broke a leg after being vaccinated then that number would show up. In your poorly informed mind you and Billykins would then be telling us that covid vaccination causes broken bones.


When analysed those reports would be discarded because they are not relevant.
The system is open to ensure that the program can pick up on any trends needing examination. Sadly, there are many easily led people who do not understand what is going on.


Don't worry, there are many people like you. You are not alone. Sadly you are society's burden and a target for people who do not have your best interests in mind.

Here's an updated for you FiFi, I couldn't careless how VAERS works. Bad information fueled with more bad information doesn't suddenly produce good information. You can put all the lipstick and rouge on that pig you can muster and it is still a pig. You can produce all of the information disinformation you can find, it still does not make it true or factual. The folks who bring you the man made virus are also bringing you the cure. One would have to be a total moron to subscribe to that.

The idea that the high browed elitist with a long list of pedigrees, a group of which you apparently believe you are a member of,  would have an agenda to do you and mankind tremendous harm is unfathomable, is a fallacy. You are the victim of an illusion FiFi but you just keep believing it. You wear it well
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 08:39:10 AM

Common sense says there is nothing that backs up your assertions above, the only proof you can offer is based on logical fallacies such as, argumentum ad ignorantiam, and/or argumentum ad hominem.



So, just for clarification, you still subscribe to the idea that the virus is the result of a Wuhan wet market or a bat cave in China and magically jumped to man?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 08:43:52 AM
So, just for clarification, you still subscribe to the idea that the virus is the result of a Wuhan wet market or a bat cave in China and magically jumped to man?

I believe it is one possibility among many others, none of which have yet been proven.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 08:51:26 AM
So, just for clarification, you still subscribe to the idea that the virus is the result of a Wuhan wet market or a bat cave in China and magically jumped to man?

I believe it is one possibility among many others, none of which have yet been proven.

Well we do have Fauci emails along with funding of GOF through the NIH and Obama admin to the Wuhan lab or is that more unicorns and pixie dust? It is fuggin hilarious how you propose the science yet miss this little eventuality. More proof of your selective truths and facts  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 08, 2021, 08:55:57 AM
So, Faux Pas, you now think that any claims made based upon data provided to the VAERS reporting system are valueless?

That seems to be something of a change. But sadly not a step toward knowledge. That's no more than a change from one form of ignorance to another.

There's times when some people should just accept that their knowledge and ability to learn is more limited than they would like. Sadly the Dunning-Krueger effect means that those people are the least likely to understand their limitations or, as a minimum, try to learn more.

This reporting system is designed to enable a virtually limitless range of reports in order to capture unlikely or unexpected conditions. The analysis is what enables sense to be made of the disparate reports from a wide range of sources. That's its strength.

So, in my silly example, if there was a pattern of broken legs shortly after vaccination then it would get followed up - at least to some degree. Of course it would soon be discarded as noise and a hoax - unless it was a real effect - but that's how the system works.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 09:15:01 AM
FiFi, when your basic foundation and fundamentals of a man made virus is based on lies and untruths any information arising from it should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism. Revert back to your logic and critical thinking skills of which you so proudly boast. You are lost in a sea of disinformation disguised as science BEACUSE of it's sources. I will submit to you the WHO and CDC has an agenda and your health isn't it. Apply Occam's razor and stop being the sycophant of Big Pharma 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 09:40:12 AM
Well we do have Fauci emails along with funding of GOF through the NIH and Obama admin to the Wuhan lab or is that more unicorns and pixie dust? It is fuggin hilarious how you propose the science yet miss this little eventuality. More proof of your selective truths and facts  :ROFL:

Use Occam's Razor, properly, and you will find who is being selective, and who is not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 09:49:37 AM

Use Occam's Razor, properly, and you will find who is being selective, and who is not.

My proper use of Occam's razor is only my opinion and your use is fact?  :ROFL: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2021, 10:31:45 AM
BTW BillyB

(https://i.postimg.cc/3RXgqBpM/Screen-Shot-2021-08-08-at-10-37-41.png)


You continue to get your education from television and other fake news sources and you believe in government and big pharma press releases and think you're smart. Remember they told you the vaccines have over 90% efficacy in press releases? Apparently 100% of the vaccinated can still get infected.

While government elite collect a paycheck when ordering people to stay home, they don't even follow their rules. When rules are applied, they don't wear masks indoors, at airports, in airplanes, don't social distance, and hold large social gatherings. They will put on a mask at photo ops. You've been duped but you continue to dig yourself a hole by saying you own the truth and science. Then dumb and dumber show up at the forum to pat you on the back for what you're saying. Everyone of you have been manipulated by the media and government and when it's shown to you, you still can't figure it out. You get lied to and they enjoy the health advice and decisions that impact your life from those that lied. Normal people would be pissed off if they were lied to. There are people in government that love control and are monitoring the masses responses. If you enjoy compliance on stupid rules, then you will get more rules.

Earlier I showed you how to find facts. Read your government press release again put out on July 8th, 2021. Now read the official July 8th, 2021 udated FDA factsheet they refuse to put out in a press release or educate people about right before the jab. The language is clearly different. There's a reason why they want this factsheet hard to find and your press release statement shoved in people's faces.

• FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an
FDA approved vaccine.


The significant known and potential risks and benefits of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine,
and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown.



https://www.fda.gov/media/146304/download


You have taken an experimental vaccine. You may have compromised your immunity system forever but science can't tell you what the significant risks are so they won't know till years later when people start dying off. They've taken away your right to sue for money or put them in jail in case they gave you a bad product. Give us our rights to sue back and lets see how confident they are about pushing their product.

Watch my last video with Dr. Malone. He says Fauci double down on the vaccines instead of going with a better strategy. Fauci, the proven liar, and big pharma that is pushing him are making all the decisions that can affect our health. Go figure. Government should fire him but they aren't. That's a BIG red flag for me. It's apparent the current vaccines don't act like a vaccine and they don't know if the vaccines will compromise our immune systems, yet they are pushing forward with more vaccines.

You're trying real hard to convince yourself the booster shot coming up will help you. You're not going to convince me. I already know the vaccines won't stop COVID and the current plan is to give you experimental vaccines forever to suppress the disease, not eliminate the virus. We have safe and effective treatments that will suppress the disease. Let your own natural immunity system work for once, will ya?

Here's something to think about. The US government announced 93% of the infections in America are from the Delta variant. That means the original virus isn't infecting many people today and isn't making an impact. Most of us probably have natural immunity against the original virus and the pandemic would be ending this year or next. If government didn't give us vaccines that are creating the variants, we probably wouldn't have an outbreak in the middle of summer. They have made the problem worse and instead of changing strategy, they double down with more vaccines. That tells me they want more variants that would create more problems to deal with. lucky for them they have too many people like you that will continue to rely on them for a solution and easily comply with what they say without question.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 11:01:21 AM

Use Occam's Razor, properly, and you will find who is being selective, and who is not.

My proper use of Occam's razor is only my opinion and your use is fact?  :ROFL: :laugh:

I leave the door open to all possibilities, you close all doors except the one possibility you select.

So again, who is being selective according to Occam's Razor?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 08, 2021, 11:30:05 AM

Use Occam's Razor, properly, and you will find who is being selective, and who is not.

My proper use of Occam's razor is only my opinion and your use is fact?  :ROFL: :laugh:

I leave the door open to all possibilities, you close all doors except the one possibility you select.

So again, who is being selective according to Occam's Razor?

Did you run that through your CNN fact check or did you make that up all on your own?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 08, 2021, 11:55:33 AM

You continue to get your education from television and other fake news sources and you believe in government and big pharma press releases and think you're smart. Remember they told you the vaccines have over 90% efficacy in press releases? Apparently 100% of the vaccinated can still get infected.

Deny, divert, discredit.

Efficacy has several components
Only one of those is to reduce transmission.  Transmission was reduced in trials with the Alpha variant.  The Delta variant, which is much more transmissible, has lessened the value of this component.  I can't recall anyone stating that the vaccine would produce sterile immunity.
As for the other components, reducing symptoms, hospitalization and death, the vaccines are still quite effective.


Quote
While government elite collect a paycheck when ordering people to stay home, they don't even follow their rules. When rules are applied, they don't wear masks indoors, at airports, in airplanes, don't social distance, and hold large social gatherings. They will put on a mask at photo ops. You've been duped but you continue to dig yourself a hole by saying you own the truth and science. Then dumb and dumber show up at the forum to pat you on the back for what you're saying. Everyone of you have been manipulated by the media and government and when it's shown to you, you still can't figure it out. You get lied to and they enjoy the health advice and decisions that impact your life from those that lied. Normal people would be pissed off if they were lied to. There are people in government that love control and are monitoring the masses responses. If you enjoy compliance on stupid rules, then you will get more rules.

Deny, divert, discredit.

Quote
Earlier I showed you how to find facts. Read your government press release again put out on July 8th, 2021. Now read the official July 8th, 2021 udated FDA factsheet they refuse to put out in a press release or educate people about right before the jab. The language is clearly different. There's a reason why they want this factsheet hard to find and your press release statement shoved in people's faces.

• FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an
FDA approved vaccine.


The significant known and potential risks and benefits of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine,
and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown.



https://www.fda.gov/media/146304/download

Again, you use FACT SHEET FOR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ADMINISTERING VACCINE (VACCINATION PROVIDERS) which is written in a different context.  You neither understand the context, nor language usage.

Quote
You have taken an experimental vaccine. You may have compromised your immunity system forever but science can't tell you what the significant risks are so they won't know till years later when people start dying off. They've taken away your right to sue for money or put them in jail in case they gave you a bad product. Give us our rights to sue back and lets see how confident they are about pushing their product.

Again you fall into opinion and logical fallacy.  argumentum ad ignorantiam

Quote
Watch my last video with Dr. Malone. He says Fauci double down on the vaccines instead of going with a better strategy. Fauci, the proven liar, and big pharma that is pushing him are making all the decisions that can affect our health. Go figure. Government should fire him but they aren't. That's a BIG red flag for me. It's apparent the current vaccines don't act like a vaccine and they don't know if the vaccines will compromise our immune systems, yet they are pushing forward with more vaccines.

Deny, divert, discredit.  argumentum ad verecundiam

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd

Quote
You're trying real hard to convince yourself the booster shot coming up will help you. You're not going to convince me. I already know the vaccines won't stop COVID and the current plan is to give you experimental vaccines forever to suppress the disease, not eliminate the virus. We have safe and effective treatments that will suppress the disease. Let your own natural immunity system work for once, will ya?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.  Instead, I am simply adding context and contrast to your fallacious arguments.

Quote
Here's something to think about. The US government announced 93% of the infections in America are from the Delta variant. That means the original virus isn't infecting many people today and isn't making an impact. Most of us probably have natural immunity against the original virus and the pandemic would be ending this year or next. If government didn't give us vaccines that are creating the variants, we probably wouldn't have an outbreak in the middle of summer. They have made the problem worse and instead of changing strategy, they double down with more vaccines. That tells me they want more variants that would create more problems to deal with. lucky for them they have too many people like you that will continue to rely on them for a solution and easily comply with what they say without question.

Again, argumentum ad ignorantiam and only your opinion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 08, 2021, 12:51:44 PM
https://m.slashdot.org/story/388795

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2021, 01:06:40 PM
https://m.slashdot.org/story/388795

 :popcorn:

Slate is very far left media.

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

They criticize anti vaxxers for making money on books and on social media. The article is written to build up public support to censor anti vaxxers and suppress free speech. Millions were purged off social media for making posts that encourage vaccine hesitancy. Those people are like me who don't make a dime. I guarantee you big pharma is making a whole lot more money than anti vaxxers on Youtube and writing books. Seriously guys, who buys books anymore? Can anybody name a book that is anti vaccine?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 08, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
This is so true. Write a pro vaccine book and you will lose money. But write an anti vaccine book and you might get rich. Pro Trump right wing movement has decided to promote Vaccines are a violation of freedoms. It is not a surprise Billy in both pro trump and anti vaccine. it is all part of the same movement.

This is true with the USA also. Write a pro USA book and no one will read it. Write an anti USA book and make millions of dollars. Write an anti book of another country and still make nothing or very little. So then people wonder why so many anti USA books and news stories. Then add to it political reason why people write anti USA material like RT news and the amount of anti USA material is over whelming.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 08, 2021, 01:29:11 PM
https://m.slashdot.org/story/388795

 :popcorn:

Slate is very far left media.

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

They criticize anti vaxxers for making money on books and on social media. The article is written to build up public support to censor anti vaxxers and suppress free speech. Millions were purged off social media for making posts that encourage vaccine hesitancy. Those people are like me who don't make a dime. I guarantee you big pharma is making a whole lot more money than anti vaxxers on Youtube and writing books. Seriously guys, who buys books anymore? Can anybody name a book that is anti vaccine?

So what youre saying is : its all true but im trying to discredit the source anyway.

You probably dont read slashdot often
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2021, 04:01:22 PM
So what youre saying is : its all true but im trying to discredit the source anyway.


I never said propaganda media always tell the truth. People should know Slate writes propaganda and they should treat it as such when reading their articles.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 09, 2021, 12:09:41 AM
So what youre saying is : its all true but im trying to discredit the source anyway.


I never said propaganda media always tell the truth. People should know Slate writes propaganda and they should treat it as such when reading their articles.

And yet in your first reply you (not slate) confirmed it as true. Sou youre now discrediting yourself as well? Plus slashdot is a tech blog usually, who do get their facts straight.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on August 09, 2021, 08:18:12 AM
More unvaccinated people die....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1474256/Covid-coronavirus-tragedy-vaccination-misinformation-Cardiff

Lets hope that our anti-vaxer collegues here don't get caught out...

Stay healthy..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 09, 2021, 10:03:24 AM
And yet in your first reply you (not slate) confirmed it as true. Sou youre now discrediting yourself as well? Plus slashdot is a tech blog usually, who do get their facts straight.



I didn't confirm anything is true. I even asked people here if they knew of one anti vax book written as the Slate claimed is happening for profit. People get free anti vax info on the internet from real experts in the industry so why would they pay for a book? Give me the name of an anti vax book and I'll check to see if the author is making money like Slate is claiming. The only thing I know about slashdot is the propaganda piece I just read at their site coming from Slate which writes propaganda. If they have a reputation for being right, you may want to notify them about Slate so they can take appropriate action to keep their reputation intact.


If you care about science and your health, you better watch this video. Here's a competent doctor that tells us the CDC and NIH are all wrong and are ignoring the science they paid for. Because of that, nothing they have done in the past 18 months is working. They've known for years respiratory diseases can't be eradicated because there's animal reservoirs so the virus always come back into our lives during the Winter when our immune systems are at it's weakest. Smallpox was eradicated because there are no animal reservoirs. He says vaccinated people are allowing for a COVID outbreak in the middle of summer when no other respiratory viruses do that. Yes, you vaccinated people are making the problems worse increasing infections and creating variants besides F'ing up your bodies. We now not only need to live with the original virus for forever, but now we have to live with the variants you're creating. Let your natural immune system do it's job. Better immunity after infection and significantly reduces chances of creating a variant because unlike the vaccine that only targets the virus's spike protein, your immune system will tear the virus up completely from limb to limb.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1229


95% of the severely ill in Israel are fully vaccinated. 90% of the people in Israel are vaccinated and the outbreak keeps getting bigger. We are following Israel's footsteps and soon most of our population will have compromised immune systems becoming easily infected by all pathogens. Vaccines are making this summer's outbreaks much worse than last when nobody when nobody was vaccinated. Half a dozen anti vaccine variants showed up in the last few months. GOD help us this winter. We are on a path to mass death.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28960


You guys want to take health advice from your governments. Here's how they lie and when they can't hide the lie anymore, they are forced to tell the truth. Last month American government health experts were telling us the pandemic is restricted to the unvaccinated. Now they tell the truth vaccines DO NOT prevent infection and transmission. A couple of days ago I posted a video of Boris Johnson admitting the vaccine is doing nothing to reduce deaths and infections. What he's not telling us is that the vaccine actually increases infections and deaths. Soon they won't be able to hide the facts anymore.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1210


The government told us that if we took the vaccines, we'd go back to normal lives. They lied. Now they admit the vaccinated gets infected just as easily if not more, Fauci is pushing for quick approval of the vaccines so we can initiate mandates which would allow private businesses and schools to mandate vaccines on their employees, customers, and students. I hope you guys like your boss because soon the government will give him/her the right to make health decisions for you. If you resist, you and your children will be denied benefits. Next you might be denied the right to shop for food. That is how caring our government is. (:)

https://www.theepochtimes.com/fauci-expects-flood-of-covid-vaccine-mandates-after-fda-approval_3938900.html?utm_source=pushengage



Left wing NY Times Science writer got banned from twitter for posting Pfizer clinical results showing more vaccinated people died from COVID than the unvaccinated.

https://jonathanturley.org/2021/07/31/twitter-suspends-science-writer-after-he-posts-results-of-pfizer-clinical-test/


Does anybody know if Biden was invited to Obama's maskless party?

https://t.me/therightsidewithdougbillings/390

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28921


You go girl!

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1207
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 09, 2021, 01:15:29 PM

If you care about science and your health, you better watch this video. Here's a competent doctor that tells us the CDC and NIH are all wrong and are ignoring the science they paid for. Because of that, nothing they have done in the past 18 months is working. They've known for years respiratory diseases can't be eradicated because there's animal reservoirs so the virus always come back into our lives during the Winter when our immune systems are at it's weakest. Smallpox was eradicated because there are no animal reservoirs. He says vaccinated people are allowing for a COVID outbreak in the middle of summer when no other respiratory viruses do that. Yes, you vaccinated people are making the problems worse increasing infections and creating variants besides F'ing up your bodies. We now not only need to live with the original virus for forever, but now we have to live with the variants you're creating. Let your natural immune system do it's job. Better immunity after infection and significantly reduces chances of creating a variant because unlike the vaccine that only targets the virus's spike protein, your immune system will tear the virus up completely from limb to limb.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1229

Science does not support your position.  All evidence thus far leans heavily contrary.  https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/get-vaccinated-even-if-you-ve-gotten-covid-19-study-suggests


Quote
95% of the severely ill in Israel are fully vaccinated. 90% of the people in Israel are vaccinated and the outbreak keeps getting bigger. We are following Israel's footsteps and soon most of our population will have compromised immune systems becoming easily infected by all pathogens. Vaccines are making this summer's outbreaks much worse than last when nobody when nobody was vaccinated. Half a dozen anti vaccine variants showed up in the last few months. GOD help us this winter. We are on a path to mass death.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28960

90% of the people in Israel are not vaccinated. Most sites are showing 64% have had at least one dose.  If you extrapolate the numbers, the US is currently worse than Israel.  Israel, like many places in the US dropped indoor mask mandates.  A better comparison would be with other countries that have higher percentages of vaccinated. Compare with Italy, where practically all folks with serious illnesses are vaccinated along with over 90% over 70, and almost 80% over 50 fully vaccinated.  Still, vaccines are working in Israel.

(https://i.postimg.cc/V6thhXx0/Screen-Shot-2021-08-09-at-20-40-15.png)

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-israeli-graphs-that-prove-covid-vaccines-are-working-1.10101640

Quote
You guys want to take health advice from your governments. Here's how they lie and when they can't hide the lie anymore, they are forced to tell the truth. Last month American government health experts were telling us the pandemic is restricted to the unvaccinated. Now they tell the truth vaccines DO NOT prevent infection and transmission. A couple of days ago I posted a video of Boris Johnson admitting the vaccine is doing nothing to reduce deaths and infections. What he's not telling us is that the vaccine actually increases infections and deaths. Soon they won't be able to hide the facts anymore.

There are thousands of variants, and will be thousands more, vaccines or no vaccines.  Let's hope those that are more dangerous are few.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1210

As posted before, infections are only one factor to consider. Benefit of the other factors, reduced effects of the virus, less hospitalizations and death make the vaccines very effective.


Quote
The government told us that if we took the vaccines, we'd go back to normal lives. They lied. Now they admit the vaccinated gets infected just as easily if not more, Fauci is pushing for quick approval of the vaccines so we can initiate mandates which would allow private businesses and schools to mandate vaccines on their employees, customers, and students. I hope you guys like your boss because soon the government will give him/her the right to make health decisions for you. If you resist, you and your children will be denied benefits. Next you might be denied the right to shop for food. That is how caring our government is. (:)

https://www.theepochtimes.com/fauci-expects-flood-of-covid-vaccine-mandates-after-fda-approval_3938900.html?utm_source=pushengage

Before or after the delta variants?

Quote
Left wing NY Times Science writer got banned from twitter for posting Pfizer clinical results showing more vaccinated people died from COVID than the unvaccinated.

https://jonathanturley.org/2021/07/31/twitter-suspends-science-writer-after-he-posts-results-of-pfizer-clinical-test/

You mean this guy? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/


Quote
Does anybody know if Biden was invited to Obama's maskless party?

https://t.me/therightsidewithdougbillings/390

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/28921

Outside or inside venue?  How many attended? Everyone fully vaccinated? Everyone tested?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 09, 2021, 05:07:01 PM
90% of the people in Israel are not vaccinated.


Even if you're right, it's nothing to be proud of. 95% of the severely ill in Israel are vaccinated. Less people vaccinated doesn't change that fact and only makes it look worse for the argument of getting vaccinated. Go to worldometers and click on any major nation that has a good portion of their people vaccinated. USA, Canada, UK, France, Italy Germany or Spain. Infections are skyrocketing and deaths climbing all in the middle of summer. They told you the opposite was going to happen. They lied. This is a trend caused by the vaccines, its not a fluke outbreak happening in only one vaccinated country.


UK data report came out a few days ago. Vaccinated continue to die more than the unvaccinated. Nothing has changed. The Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Lambda, Eta, Kappa, Theta, Zeta and EIGHT yet to be named variants are present in the UK. Notice the dates on those unnamed variants? All this year. You vaccinated human petri dishes are creating all these variants.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf


With the outbreak happening, Fauci is now recommending boosters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fauci-favors-boosters-for-some-florida-mask-fight-virus-update/ar-AAN3tu2?ocid=msedgntp


Radio is telling people how to cut in line to get boosters sooner. Go to another jab site and tell them you haven't been vaccinated. Hey! With this trick you can load up with 10 shots before Winter for maximum protection!

https://t.me/richardcitizenjournalist/2965


Holocaust survivor has a message “The Holocaust didn’t happen overnight, it happened in stages. Stages of humiliation, discrimination, demonization, and the final stage, extermination.”

https://t.me/realx22report/3408


Fauci criticizes maskless outdoor bike rally but doesn't criticize Obama's maskless indoor party.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/08/08/fauci-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-obama-party/


My mom cancelled a birthday party she planned for months due to the media scaring her about the outbreak. Obama and this liberal politician each had a party with their friends maskless indoors with zero social distancing. They aren't scared of the virus they tell us to be scared of. Wake up!

https://t.me/realx22report/3413


WH is paying people like the one in the video below to motivate people to vax up. Does he/she motivate you?

https://t.me/disclosetv/3925


Senator Rand Paul has a message to resist the BS.

https://t.me/PatrickMByrne/1615


Biden orders all military personnel to get vaxxed. Shame he has to order our all volunteer military who volunteered to risk their lives to take an experimental vaccine. Kinda like the troops who didn't have a say when they were put in close proximity to atomic bomb tests. Biden is not fit to be commander in chief. We need to fix the election steal ASAP.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3921
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 09, 2021, 10:01:35 PM

Even if you're right, it's nothing to be proud of. 95% of the severely ill in Israel are vaccinated. Less people vaccinated doesn't change that fact and only makes it look worse for the argument of getting vaccinated. Go to worldometers and click on any major nation that has a good portion of their people vaccinated. USA, Canada, UK, France, Italy Germany or Spain. Infections are skyrocketing and deaths climbing all in the middle of summer. They told you the opposite was going to happen. They lied. This is a trend caused by the vaccines, its not a fluke outbreak happening in only one vaccinated country.

7 day moving averages

USA 116,000 infections, deaths 506.    333 million

Canada 1000 infections, deaths 12.       38 million
UK 28000 infections, deaths 88.            68 million
France 22000 infections deaths 50.        65 million
Italy 6000 infections deaths 22.             60 million
Germany infections 2900, deaths 15       84 million.
Spain infections 17000, deaths 69          47 million

So 333 million USA vs 362 million in the other countries you mentioned.

Infections 103000 per day vs 116000, lets call it even.
Deaths 256 vs 506 per day, half the deaths as the USA

In comparison, Italy, Germany and Canada from your list are doing quite well.  Ask yourself why.  Is it the higher vaccination rates?  Is it continued masking requirements? Is it both?  How do you account for the halving of deaths at the same level of infections?  I expect numbers for these countries to drop even further as more get vaccinated.  Within the next month, at the current rate of vaccinations, Italy will reach 80% fully vaccinated.


Quote
UK data report came out a few days ago. Vaccinated continue to die more than the unvaccinated. Nothing has changed. The Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Lambda, Eta, Kappa, Theta, Zeta and EIGHT yet to be named variants are present in the UK. Notice the dates on those unnamed variants? All this year. You vaccinated human petri dishes are creating all these variants.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf

This is not rocket science.  If 100% of the people are vaccinated, all deaths will be among the vaccinated.  What don't you understand about that?  Vaccinated or not, variants will happen.  To date, no variant of interest or concern have been identified as originating in vaccinated folks.

Quote
With the outbreak happening, Fauci is now recommending boosters.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fauci-favors-boosters-for-some-florida-mask-fight-virus-update/ar-AAN3tu2?ocid=msedgntp


Radio is telling people how to cut in line to get boosters sooner. Go to another jab site and tell them you haven't been vaccinated. Hey! With this trick you can load up with 10 shots before Winter for maximum protection!

https://t.me/richardcitizenjournalist/2965

Boosters are also being evaluated here for the elderly and compromised immune systems.  The weaker our immune system is, the less effective vaccines are.  So what's the problem with boosters, if needed?


Quote
Holocaust survivor has a message “The Holocaust didn’t happen overnight, it happened in stages. Stages of humiliation, discrimination, demonization, and the final stage, extermination.”

https://t.me/realx22report/3408

She is entitled to express her opinion.


Quote
Fauci criticizes maskless outdoor bike rally but doesn't criticize Obama's maskless indoor party.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/08/08/fauci-motorcycle-rally-south-dakota-obama-party/


My mom cancelled a birthday party she planned for months due to the media scaring her about the outbreak. Obama and this liberal politician each had a party with their friends maskless indoors with zero social distancing. They aren't scared of the virus they tell us to be scared of. Wake up!

https://t.me/realx22report/3413

The party will be held outdoors and all guests are asked to be vaccinated. Invitees also must submit their negative test results to a COVID-coordinator within a certain time window before the event.
https://www.axios.com/obama-plans-birthday-bash-amid-covid-concerns-26278329-43be-473d-bf16-80b025e03912.html

What were the preventative measures taken at the bike rally?


Quote
WH is paying people like the one in the video below to motivate people to vax up. Does he/she motivate you?

https://t.me/disclosetv/3925

TikTok motivates a lot of people.


Quote
Senator Rand Paul has a message to resist the BS.

https://t.me/PatrickMByrne/1615

He is also entitled to express his opinion.

Quote
Biden orders all military personnel to get vaxxed. Shame he has to order our all volunteer military who volunteered to risk their lives to take an experimental vaccine. Kinda like the troops who didn't have a say when they were put in close proximity to atomic bomb tests. Biden is not fit to be commander in chief. We need to fix the election steal ASAP.

https://t.me/disclosetv/3921

Prudent move.  BTW Biden only asked the Denfense secretary to  I received the smallpox vaccine in the military, long after it was no longer required.  This was in the 80's.  In 2002/2003 a half million service members received the smallpox vaccine.  IIRC is still a routine vaccination for many.  You criticized this vaccine as well a few pages back.  Yes, our military folks are asked to go above and beyond individual interests, in favor of readiness of the entire team.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 10, 2021, 11:50:16 AM
...Infections are skyrocketing and deaths climbing all in the middle of summer. They told you the opposite was going to happen. They lied. This is a trend caused by the vaccines, its not a fluke outbreak happening in only one vaccinated country.


UK data report came out a few days ago. Vaccinated continue to die more than the unvaccinated. Nothing has changed. The Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Lambda, Eta, Kappa, Theta, Zeta and EIGHT yet to be named variants are present in the UK. Notice the dates on those unnamed variants? All this year. You vaccinated human petri dishes are creating all these variants.

Exactly right. WE had successful vaccines in the past. Smallpox, polio, etc...Current COVID-19 can be best describe as: Leaky Vaccines.

From the 2015 National Institute of Health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/

Quote
There is a theoretical expectation that some types of vaccines could prompt the evolution of more virulent (“hotter”) pathogens. This idea follows from the notion that natural selection removes pathogen strains that are so “hot” that they kill their hosts and, therefore, themselves. Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur. This type of vaccine is often called a leaky vaccine. When vaccines prevent transmission, as is the case for nearly all vaccines used in humans, this type of evolution towards increased virulence is blocked. But when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist. ...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 10, 2021, 12:16:52 PM
Okay, this is the Karen set who drive big black SUV's, are always holding there mobiles and wear masks even alone in the car.

At lunch I overheard two of these creatures. One stated she was double vaccinated ~ J & J together with Pfizer. Besides the total selfish waste of resources what are the other ramifications?

Worth adding that these people are allowed to bred amazes me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2021, 03:28:30 PM
Exactly right. WE had successful vaccines in the past. Smallpox, polio, etc...Current COVID-19 can be best describe as: Leaky Vaccines.


Welcome to the forum Bodine! I mentioned the warnings of vaccine experts previously. I'm not very trusting of government and government doctors right now led by Fauci.

Attempts to make coronavirus vaccines for decades have failed due to the discovered harm done to animals. THEY KNOW THAT! But they continue to push these new experimental vaccines on citizens of the world. I posted this video earlier and if anybody cares about their family or even if you don't and only care about yourself, you MUST watch this video. This doctor articulates it better than the others. They've known for decades coronavirus vaccines harmed lab animals and he explains why the current strategy is making things worse. He said respiratory diseases is almost unheard of in the summer and the vaccines are making it worse by creating variants. This nightmare will never end with the current government strategy. If mass deaths come this winter, those in charge need to go to prison.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CSXK7-aHxYk/?utm_medium=copy_link


Special for BC and other pro vaxxers

https://t.me/bannonswarroom/1434
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on August 10, 2021, 07:00:56 PM
Okay, this is the Karen set who drive big black SUV's, are always holding there mobiles and wear masks even alone in the car.

At lunch I overheard two of these creatures. One stated she was double vaccinated ~ J & J together with Pfizer. Besides the total selfish waste of resources what are the other ramifications?

Worth adding that these people are allowed to bred amazes me.



 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 11, 2021, 12:12:42 AM
At lunch I overheard two of these creatures. One stated she was double vaccinated ~ J & J together with Pfizer.

Here in Italy where use of the AZ vaccine was no longer recommended for those under the age of 60, if the first dose was already given, the second dose was Pfizer or Moderna.

IIRC ditto for the J&J vaccine.

So don't think the mix described is that unusual.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/delta-people-are-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines-over-concerns-about-variant.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 11, 2021, 04:58:30 AM
At lunch I overheard two of these creatures. One stated she was double vaccinated ~ J & J together with Pfizer.

Here in Italy where use of the AZ vaccine was no longer recommended for those under the age of 60, if the first dose was already given, the second dose was Pfizer or Moderna.

IIRC ditto for the J&J vaccine.

So don't think the mix described is that unusual.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/delta-people-are-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines-over-concerns-about-variant.html

Yup, while it might have been unintentional or just stupidity, research suggests that using a combination of vaccines can lead to enhanced immune response. The Sputnik vaccine uses two different types of inactivated virus as a carrier for that reason. Astra Zeneca have been cooperating with Sputnik with a view to doing similar with their vaccine (they're quite similar in terms of method of delivery).

The J&J vaccine is reportedly not as good in terms of efficacy as the two-shot solutions so, again, it may be a good choice to use a booster jab in the light of the spread of the Delta variant in the USA given Delta's much greater transmissibility..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 11, 2021, 10:05:05 AM
At lunch I overheard two of these creatures. One stated she was double vaccinated ~ J & J together with Pfizer.

Here in Italy where use of the AZ vaccine was no longer recommended for those under the age of 60, if the first dose was already given, the second dose was Pfizer or Moderna.

IIRC ditto for the J&J vaccine.

So don't think the mix described is that unusual.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/delta-people-are-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines-over-concerns-about-variant.html

Yup, while it might have been unintentional or just stupidity, research suggests that using a combination of vaccines can lead to enhanced immune response. The Sputnik vaccine uses two different types of inactivated virus as a carrier for that reason. Astra Zeneca have been cooperating with Sputnik with a view to doing similar with their vaccine (they're quite similar in terms of method of delivery).

The J&J vaccine is reportedly not as good in terms of efficacy as the two-shot solutions so, again, it may be a good choice to use a booster jab in the light of the spread of the Delta variant in the USA given Delta's much greater transmissibility..

If you guy want to continue to pump experimental vaccines in your body and mix brands at the recommendation of government doctors, don't take the Sputnik vaccine. While the vaccines are allowing skyrocketing infections and slight increases of deaths this summer compared to last when nobody was vaccinated, the Sputnik vaccine is allowing for skyrocketing deaths in Russia. I can't gauge China because all their data is manipulated to make it look like they have no COVID or vaccine problems. Here's Russia's numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/russia/


This doctor explains how vaccines cause clots. He is worried boosters will make our immune systems attack our body with disasterous results. With little or no animal testing, we'll have to see what happens to humans after they take the booster. They are coming before winter. Good luck.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/AA2VM2xQC6oc/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 11, 2021, 11:48:29 AM

Keep in mind folks, although you see an increase of deaths due to Covid this summer compared to last, it does not include deaths strictly due to the vaccines themselves. A couple of CDC whistleblowers said there's 50,000 deaths due to vaccines in America.


This UK director on a study of Pfizer vaccine said those vaccinated has 5-6 times less natural antibodies they would normally have. That means the vaccines are suppressing your own natural immune system from fighting the virus. The director also said people who are vaccinated will need boosters soon. This video is getting banned on big tech platforms so watch it here. You guys need to understand that if the vaccines suppressed your natural immune system for life, you will need booster vaccines for life. If the vaccines only temporarily suppress your immune system and you stop taking vaccines, you will temporarily be very vulnerable to pathogens until your natural immune system can recover 100% from the vaccines that suppressed it. See what is happening in the summer. They are doubling down on vaccines. This winter we will see mass deaths and they will try and blame it on the unvaccinated for not cooperating. When will you guys see the light they been lying to us from the very beginning when this virus showed up? If someone lies to you, they don't have your best interest at heart. I teach my kids that. You adults should know better.

https://www.brighteon.com/47adb08d-2e58-4e14-a67b-f2ffa4f72df5
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 12, 2021, 12:34:31 AM
Like most of you, I read social media and media doctors recommending mixing vaccines. How do they know that will help and how do they know it's not dangerous? There's no data from any study by two big pharma companies on how their vaccines will work together or work against each other. Media and social media is allowing for this kind of talk and some people will follow the advice and even be creative mixing vaccines. From the data that is available, what concoction is best? Moderna and J & J or China's Sinovax and Russia's Sputnik or a mixture of 10 uniquely different vaccines to achieve maximum protection? Some people think taking drugs while sniffing paint remover will magnify the desired effect. Sorry for having fun now. This may get deadly serious come winter.


I wondered what was said in the past so I found this June 1, 2021 article where an Israeli doctor brags 80% of the population is vaccinated and they achieved herd immunity. Based on worldometers, infections and deaths were almost zero but the doctor didn't give credit to the warmer weather. Now in August, deaths are higher and infections skyrocketing to currently 3 times higher this month compared to last year. The governments and media should choose my experts to interview instead of those who agree with their narrative.

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-vaccinated-most-adults-covid-herd-immunity-2021-6?r=US&IR=TIR=T

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/


Based on the type of media stories they release, we can predict the future. I suspect boosters will be approved soon, not because you need it but because millions of doses are facing expiration.

https://t.me/SteelTruthChannel/2956


Eric Clapton refuses to play at venues requiring vaccination since he became temporally paralyze after the jab. Some people get paralyzed for life. These vaccines are causing record deaths and injuries to people. Those hoping the FDA will put an approval stamp on them won't make the vaccines any safer but it will give government and businesses more rights to force you to take the jab and strip you of freedoms.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57934379
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 12, 2021, 03:05:11 AM

If you guy want to continue to pump experimental vaccines in your body and mix brands at the recommendation of government doctors, don't take the Sputnik vaccine. While the vaccines are allowing skyrocketing infections and slight increases of deaths this summer compared to last when nobody was vaccinated, the Sputnik vaccine is allowing for skyrocketing deaths in Russia. I can't gauge China because all their data is manipulated to make it look like they have no COVID or vaccine problems. Here's Russia's numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/russia/


Sure is skyrocketing.. what percentage of the population is fully vaccinated? 18%?  No mystery there at all.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1239299/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-russia/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 12, 2021, 08:45:26 AM
Danchik has in so many words explained the Russian method of virus control. First no vaccine and no social distancing. Second find some preexisting condition reason they did not die from Covid-19 and record that.  Make the numbers look good and see to it know one knows how many really died.  As of July 1 even that is not working all that well so Putin decided to close down some hotels and beaches to the un vaccinated. The hope was they would get vaccinated. I have not seen any up date so I am not sure what is happening now. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on August 12, 2021, 09:09:53 AM
Danchik has in so many words explained the Russian method of virus control. First no vaccine and no social distancing. Second find some preexisting condition reason they did not die from Covid-19 and record that.  Make the numbers look good and see to it know one knows how many really died.  As of July 1 even that is not working all that well so Putin decided to close down some hotels and beaches to the un vaccinated. The hope was they would get vaccinated. I have not seen any up date so I am not sure what is happening now.

Tex, since when are you the expert on all things Russian??
What you have written here is utter boll0x...
May I remind you that Russia had the first vaccine against covid with sputnik, though its european approval is subject to politics...
Shut downs/social distancing/masks/working from home/compulsory extended PAID holidays etc, were implemented way before the US/EU, and are still ongoing.
It is factually correct to say that Russians are/always have been against any form of vaccinations..
There are always long queues at the vaccination centers, and getting a timed appointment is a 3 weeks wait..
I'm on the ground, so cut the crap about writing something which you hope is correct..
Stick to your ill-lnformed narrative about Ukraine....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 12, 2021, 10:55:10 AM
Gipsy,

my wife and kids returned a week ago.  They said it was quite common for folks to buy vaccination certificates instead of getting vaccinated.

Are you hearing the same?

They were able to get vaccinated the day after they arrived in RU.  Folks in San Marino got SputnikV and the only problem they had is acceptance for green passes as EMA is still going through the approval process. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 12, 2021, 12:37:38 PM

Shut downs/social distancing/masks/working from home/compulsory extended PAID holidays etc, were implemented way before the US/EU, and are still ongoing.


Danchick said they did not have all that crazy stuff there.

A month ago Russia was one of the least vaccinated major countries.  Yes they had first vaccine most people do not trust it. They must of had a talk with Billy.

Negative Covid-19 test for sale in Ukraine.  A fake test cost less money than real one.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 12, 2021, 07:34:22 PM

If you guy want to continue to pump experimental vaccines in your body and mix brands at the recommendation of government doctors, don't take the Sputnik vaccine. While the vaccines are allowing skyrocketing infections and slight increases of deaths this summer compared to last when nobody was vaccinated, the Sputnik vaccine is allowing for skyrocketing deaths in Russia. I can't gauge China because all their data is manipulated to make it look like they have no COVID or vaccine problems. Here's Russia's numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/russia/


Sure is skyrocketing.. what percentage of the population is fully vaccinated? 18%?  No mystery there at all.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1239299/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-russia/

Near 20% Russians are fully vaccinated and 27% have at least one jab. Rational people would expect infections and deaths to decline with a working vaccine this summer compared to last when nobody was vaccinated. IF that happened in every nation that were heavily vaccinated, you'd be bragging about the vaccines working fine and as intended. Now you somehow spin higher infections and deaths this summer to mean vaccines are working fine and as intended.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations


Senator Rand Paul tells American to resist mandates and restrictions. He got banned off Youtube. Big tech think they can ban anybody including the real President.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/sen-rand-paul-tells-americans-its-time-for-us-to-resist-draconian-mandates-restrictions/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 12, 2021, 09:42:08 PM
First the vaccine take 3 weeks after the second dose to work. Second we have a more contagious variant this year than last.  Third Russia has three vaccines. I do not know how to find which vaccine is performing how well or which vaccine was given. I do not know how many people who have had second does over three weeks have gotten the disease. On the first of July it was only ten percent were fully vaccinated. So not much more than that are fully protected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 13, 2021, 09:18:41 AM
we have a more contagious variant this year than last. 


A variant? Did you ready that UK report I linked? There's over a dozen variants and they're all likely to be contagious and resist vaccines. Although there's over a dozen variants in existence, governments and media want to announce one or two at a time. They will announce the other variants at the appropriate time to maintain continuous control and regulate fear.

I seen a few videos of 1st responders complaining they will be forced to take the vaccine or be fired. Last years heroes have no say in what goes in their bodies. One fireman crying said he's been doing it all his life and now they want him to inject experimental vaccines into his body numerous times each year and probably forever if he wants to work.


Sydney, Australia extends lockdown after one case reported. They call in more troops to enforce the lockdown. They've lost around 949 people in 18 months of the pandemic which amounts to less than 2 people dying per day. They shut down their economy over it. Other Western nations are overboard with what they're doing too. China has to be laughing.

https://www.rt.com/news/531803-extra-troops-sydney-lockdown/

https://www.rt.com/news/531929-sydney-lockdown-send-200-troops/amp/


Good news! Vaccine manufactures rethink their strategy according to the article. They admit vaccines won't stop COVID. Of course their original strategy didn't work. They knew it wouldn't work based on history of past vaccines developed for coronaviruses not working. Pfizer states they are monitoring variants and will prepare new products if necessary. How nice of them. These new products rushed into our bodies will all be experimental of course.

Pfizer spokesperson told Salon, anti-vaxxers made it harder to extricate humanity from the pandemic. "Every person without immunity provides the virus with an opportunity to spread and continue to mutate and further expose our communities," the spokesperson said. "So, it's important to vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible."  Pfizer spokesperson is lying. Vaccinated people spread the virus as easily or more than the unvaxed. Anti-vaxxers aren't a threat to humanity, they are.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/as-delta-variant-surges-vaccine-makers-rethink-their-strategy/ar-AANg7fJ?ocid=msedgntp


Pfizer supplied data to Japan and Japan did further studies of the vaccine, one being a distribution study. Canadian doctor in video read Japanese study says vaccines supposed to hang around in the jab area but the mRNA vaccine was allowed to spread around the body quite a bit. The studies show the vaccine seeding in organs and around 7% of the vaccine seeds in women ovaries. Those cells will then produce spike proteins which are toxic to our bodies. Then ovaries cells that have spike proteins on it will be attacked by antibodies. Don't take the jab if you're planning to reproduce and don't give the jab to your kids until this experiment on humanity has concluded.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/29472


Developer of the AstraZeneca shot admits they have nothing to stop COVID and herd immunity can't be achieved. Duh!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-developer-of-the-astrazeneca-shot-says-the-delta-variant-has-made-herd-immunity-impossible-because-vaccinated-people-can-still-transmit-the-virus/ar-AANc0Q7?ocid=msedgntp


“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

― Mark Twain

Time to wake up folks!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 13, 2021, 09:34:13 PM
It appears supreme court coming down on the side of vaccine mandates to go to college and or work.   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/amy-coney-barrett-strikes-surprising-killer-blow-against-vaccine-mandate-defiance/ar-AANhbY3?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on August 14, 2021, 03:04:42 AM
Gipsy,

my wife and kids returned a week ago.  They said it was quite common for folks to buy vaccination certificates instead of getting vaccinated.

Are you hearing the same?

They were able to get vaccinated the day after they arrived in RU.  Folks in San Marino got SputnikV and the only problem they had is acceptance for green passes as EMA is still going through the approval process.

I have heard the same, but in a different context....

After vaccination in vaccination centers, one would like a certificate, to get this, there are several ways as they are not automatically issued, one way is through the gov portal Gosslugi, if you are not registered there, then one must purchase a BLANK cert from a bookshop, and return to the vaccination center to get it filled out and stamped, then one also has to visit the hospital where one is registered and get the cert offically stamped and approved...
Its a real ballache I'm pleased to say... LOL..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on August 14, 2021, 03:31:40 AM
First the vaccine take 3 weeks after the second dose to work. Second we have a more contagious variant this year than last.  Third Russia has three vaccines. I do not know how to find which vaccine is performing how well or which vaccine was given. I do not know how many people who have had second does over three weeks have gotten the disease. On the first of July it was only ten percent were fully vaccinated. So not much more than that are fully protected.

I had just about completed a long response to this crap which you have written and then ferkin lost it, and I am not going to write it all again....
read this...https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01813-2
Now cut the crap...
Manny, why does this site not auto save what people write, it would be a great help..
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 14, 2021, 04:43:22 AM
Billykins, you used this quotation:

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

― Mark Twain

You should know that this clearly applies to you! You have been fooled time and again because you don't understand what you see and read and are unable to make valid judgements. Hell, you don't even know what a fact is and cannot differentiate between fact and conjecture or between facts and unfounded opinion stated as facts.

You are ridiculously easy to fool but pride and ignorance makes it impossible for you to learn.

But yes, I do agree with the quoted words. They are clearly true.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 15, 2021, 12:37:53 AM

CDC and WHO says it's okay for pregnant women to take the experimental vaccine. I've never seen mild mannered ex Pfizer VP and Chief Science Officer Dr Yeadon so angry. He says there is an international effort to push numerous lies about the vaccine and suppress expert opposing opinions. They don't want a debate. He's angry that they are misleading the public that all safety tests are completed but he knows that is impossible to have done. They want us to believe they put a quart in pint box. He says they know from past history tens of thousands of children were born without limbs, had brain damage, and had heart problems due to bad vaccines. Who knows what the COVID vaccines will do to unborn children. Unsuspecting mothers and their unborn will be in an experiment they did not agree to. Dr Yeadon also says their clinical trials are misleading. They only used the healthiest of people in trials so of course there will be fewer injuries caused by the vaccines giving the illusion they are less dangerous than they actually are.

Dr. Yeadon says we're being lied to on purpose and there's a bad reason for that. I suggest you guys stop listening to government doctors that are controlled by politicians and refuse future vaccines offered. Watch what happens in real time to those who continue with the vaccine program. Summer was bad. Winter will be much worse.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/FPehpfdTleDo/


Canada wants all air travelers and passengers on public transportation to be vaccinated. You'll see this kind of stuff all over the world. Rewards for certain people and the denial of benefits for those that don't want to follow the rules.

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-canada-travel-coronavirus-pandemic-f504cb07e496c8569529bd5b8f5b2cf5


The most vaccine hesitant group are the most educated group. Those are the ones that can read and understand the fine print on government fact sheets instead of trusting a tv commercial with Lebron James claiming the vaccines are safe and effective.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9893465/Americans-PhDs-reluctant-vaccinated-against-COVID-study-finds.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on August 15, 2021, 11:04:35 AM

Shut downs/social distancing/masks/working from home/compulsory extended PAID holidays etc, were implemented way before the US/EU, and are still ongoing.


Danchick said they did not have all that crazy stuff there.

A month ago Russia was one of the least vaccinated major countries.  Yes they had first vaccine most people do not trust it. They must of had a talk with Billy.

Negative Covid-19 test for sale in Ukraine.  A fake test cost less money than real one.
Tex, what in tarnation are you talking about?

Quote what I said, and I'll respond, otherwise, I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about. Most mandates were less than a month. I've been going to the gym since June 2020, and most places of business were fully operational except for a few short weeks as I mentioned before since that time.

As far as getting a certificate through. the "dark net", it was very easy to get months ago, but not now, although there are ways with a little ingenuity. There were some short lived mandates where some businesses required 80% vaccination rates for employees and even that wasn't met for the most part.

Most people have been back at work for months now, or have a rotating schedule. At least in Moscow.

There are always ways around the system, here and in most places. Life in Moscow has been relatively normal since June 2020, with a month here and there when bars and restaurants closed a bit earlier than usual. Certainly with many fewer restrictions than Europe and the US.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 15, 2021, 11:41:10 AM

Two tourists who got caught entering Hawaii with false vaccination cards got arrested. This is such a serious violation that Hawaii's governor, a Democrat, got involved saying they will be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/567724-two-hawaii-tourists-arrested-for-falsifying-vaccination-cards


Listen to how this man speaks. Notice the respect women in the back have for him. Guys, don't be afraid to be a MAN even if the science is against you.

https://twitter.com/mattwalshblog/status/1425878511915577344?s=21


This isn't about a "virus". The government views 'us' as the virus(problem) that needs to be dealt with.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 16, 2021, 08:50:11 AM
Define 'us' BillyB.  Who/what are they, and what do they represent?

From my POV, it seems you refer the minority who wish to put 'me' before 'we'.

Did some shopping here, along with some dining.  Much different than in EU with only 5-10 percent max of customers wearing masks while almost all employees were.  Although vaccinated, I'll still wear one out of respect to those working and other customers that do the same, and even those that weren't.  Some seem to stare a bit, or avoid eye contact, but I let that be their problem to deal with.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 17, 2021, 05:50:51 AM
Manny, why does this site not auto save what people write, it would be a great help..

If you lose it, if you click back on your browser it should be cached.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
Define 'us' BillyB.  Who/what are they, and what do they represent?

From my POV, it seems you refer the minority who wish to put 'me' before 'we'.

Did some shopping here, along with some dining.  Much different than in EU with only 5-10 percent max of customers wearing masks while almost all employees were.  Although vaccinated, I'll still wear one out of respect to those working and other customers that do the same, and even those that weren't.  Some seem to stare a bit, or avoid eye contact, but I let that be their problem to deal with.

Excellent. Keep in mind BC this isn't the EU, at least not yet. Your mask fetish is your problem to deal with. But of course I am sure you're wearing it out of your love for others because that's the kind of guy you are. If you're vaxxed, why wear it at all if you're not spreading or collecting? Don't you see the conflict there at all?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 18, 2021, 09:47:33 AM
If you're vaxxed, why wear it at all if you're not spreading or collecting? Don't you see the conflict there at all?

Because I don't know if I'm spreading or collecting.  I could be asymptomatic right at this very moment.  There is absolutely no conflict at all. 

It has to do with respect as well.  I never asked any of my employees to do anything I was not willing to do myself. Same for my neighbors, family, friends, and yes, even those working and walking around Walmart.

You have the problem with masks and vaccines, I don't.  You made your bed so sleep in it.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 18, 2021, 05:11:34 PM
If you're vaxxed, why wear it at all if you're not spreading or collecting? Don't you see the conflict there at all?

Because I don't know if I'm spreading or collecting.  I could be asymptomatic right at this very moment.  There is absolutely no conflict at all. 

It has to do with respect as well.  I never asked any of my employees to do anything I was not willing to do myself. Same for my neighbors, family, friends, and yes, even those working and walking around Walmart.

You have the problem with masks and vaccines, I don't.  You made your bed so sleep in it.

Social Mistake, what is your challenge? Are you so arrogant or ignorant that you can NOT accept the most basic of precautions to slow the spread of COVID.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2021, 08:18:53 PM
If you're vaxxed, why wear it at all if you're not spreading or collecting? Don't you see the conflict there at all?

Because I don't know if I'm spreading or collecting.  I could be asymptomatic right at this very moment. There is absolutely no conflict at all. 

It has to do with respect as well. I never asked any of my employees to do anything I was not willing to do myself. Same for my neighbors, family, friends, and yes, even those working and walking around Walmart.

You have the problem with masks and vaccines, I don't.  You made your bed so sleep in it.

Then your vaxx must not have worked. Maybe you should get another jab, no?

It has exactly zero to do with *cough* R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Some of us still believe you taking the jab and turning into a super spreader is an attack on humanity.

I have no problem with masks or vaccines. I don't wear them and I don't take them
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2021, 08:24:34 PM
If you're vaxxed, why wear it at all if you're not spreading or collecting? Don't you see the conflict there at all?

Because I don't know if I'm spreading or collecting.  I could be asymptomatic right at this very moment.  There is absolutely no conflict at all. 

It has to do with respect as well.  I never asked any of my employees to do anything I was not willing to do myself. Same for my neighbors, family, friends, and yes, even those working and walking around Walmart.

You have the problem with masks and vaccines, I don't.  You made your bed so sleep in it.

Social Mistake, what is your challenge? Are you so arrogant or ignorant that you can NOT accept the most basic of precautions to slow the spread of COVID.

Why must you repeatedly prove that you are a moron. Please do not attempt to prove it to me anymore. I'm convinced. I fail to see where I issued any challenge. But for edification of a moron I will state for the record, masks' distancing and the current experimental vaxx have zero supporting scientific evidence to slow the spread of COVID
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 18, 2021, 10:21:47 PM
We should be past the point of taking health advice from government doctors that are controlled by politicians that are bought by big pharma. Biden decided to speak on giving us booster shots instead of talking about Afghanistan. Trump says the booster shot is a scam to make money.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9905079/Trump-claims-COVID-booster-shots-money-making-operation-Pfizer.html


Look at the chart of new variants that showed up. Vaccinated human petri dishes are making this worse by creating all these variants. COVID will never end with vaccines. Vaccines will make this pandemic last longer and it could get more dangerous with the next mutation. You guys are also compromising your immune systems making you more likely to die earlier.

https://t.me/KanekoaTheGreat/1342


Australia vaccinated 24,000 children in a stadium and parents aren't allowed in. After vaccination 2 kids died.

https://t.me/disclosetv/4091

https://t.me/theprofessorsrecord/2090


Media promotes doctor who said three jabs may be the magic number. Don't believe that BS. The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting infected or prevent you from transmitting the virus. The virus will be with us forever. Herd immunity can't be achieved. That means they plan to jab you multiple times each year and every year until you die. Let your own immune system deal with it and you will have better immunity next time it shows up.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/3-might-be-the-magic-number-for-covid-19-vaccine-doses-yale-immunologist-explains/ar-AANrdJx?ocid=msedgntp


1st case shows up and New Zealand wants people locked down again.

https://t.me/disclosetv/4081


NYC will deny you benefits if you don't have a vaccination card. You won't even be able to visit the strip club.

https://t.me/disclosetv/4067


If you guys don't understand what is going on with government overreaction to this virus, it's about money, control and they are bringing back segregation. Their actions has nothing to do with the virus. It has everything to do with what they want from YOU.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 19, 2021, 02:58:00 AM
If you're vaxxed, why wear it at all if you're not spreading or collecting? Don't you see the conflict there at all?

Because I don't know if I'm spreading or collecting.  I could be asymptomatic right at this very moment. There is absolutely no conflict at all. 

It has to do with respect as well. I never asked any of my employees to do anything I was not willing to do myself. Same for my neighbors, family, friends, and yes, even those working and walking around Walmart.

You have the problem with masks and vaccines, I don't.  You made your bed so sleep in it.

Then your vaxx must not have worked. Maybe you should get another jab, no?

It has exactly zero to do with *cough* R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Some of us still believe you taking the jab and turning into a super spreader is an attack on humanity.

I have no problem with masks or vaccines. I don't wear them and I don't take them

The vaccine is working fine FP, thanks for asking.

That the vaccine was not sterile, in other words prevents one from becoming infected and infecting others, was known from the beginning.  Quite effective against most strains, but all indications are that it is less effective against the Delta variant which is more transmissible than other variants.  Yes, I'll be getting another jab before returning to Italy.

The virus can be transmitted by those who are vaccinated and those who are not vaccinated.  Although not fully quantified, transmission should be less than with those that are not vaccinated, but certainly not more.  Anyone can become a super spreader, but still odds are in favor of those not vaccinated as being the greater risk.  No different from current influenza vaccines.

Again, as explained to BillyB before, transmission is only one advantage of the vaccine.  Reduction in symptoms, along with still being very effective against hospitalization and death, are the other, greater advantages.

Sure respect is a factor.  Even if you don't wear a mask, I'll wear one in confined or crowded public spaces, mostly to try and protect you from even the reduced risk I pose to you, and your loved ones, whether you want it or not.  I have no issue with such a small inconvenience.  Your inability to reciprocate along with objections expressed to those that do mask up, remains your problem alone.  If you feel bothered by those who do wear masks in higher risk areas, deal with it but quit complaining.  If you are worried about imposed mandates, there are still plenty of places you might find more comfortable.  If you don't like it, vote with your feet.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 19, 2021, 04:10:33 AM
And BTW FP, and others against masks and vaccines, there is an easy way to find places that are more accommodating to your preferences and with fewer restrictions.  Just pick a spot in the darker areas of the map below.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Twsg2y7L/Screen-Shot-2021-08-19-at-6-03-32-AM.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 19, 2021, 05:10:57 AM
And BTW FP, and others against masks and vaccines, there is an easy way to find places that are more accommodating to your preferences and with fewer restrictions.  Just pick a spot in the darker areas of the map below.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Twsg2y7L/Screen-Shot-2021-08-19-at-6-03-32-AM.png)

What about sending Social Mistake and Billy to the dark side of the moon?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gipsy on August 19, 2021, 06:11:51 AM
Manny, why does this site not auto save what people write, it would be a great help..

If you lose it, if you click back on your browser it should be cached.

I lost the webpage completely, nothing to click back on.....
A computer problem with win 10..
Happens now and again...
Feeel happy to delete this after reading, as it has nothing to do with the thread....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 19, 2021, 09:34:21 AM
Yeah, the clicking back sometimes works but is not reliable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 09:56:01 AM

Why is it some people who claim to want to protect people from a virus don't criticize Biden for creating the chaos that allowed for no masks or social distancing which in turn created a super spreader event?


Experimental vaccines don't work since vaccinated people get infected and transmit disease as easily as the unvaccinated but Biden announced yesterday that he's making available the third shot in less than a year for everybody. Which one of you pro vaxxers are going to admit you're going to get it? Because vaccines don't work and the idiots in charge are going forward with the booster, this is the beginning of a lifetime regimen of experimental vaccines they will put you on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 19, 2021, 11:59:56 AM

Why is it some people who claim to want to protect people from a virus don't criticize Biden for creating the chaos that allowed for no masks or social distancing which in turn created a super spreader event?


Experimental vaccines don't work since vaccinated people get infected and transmit disease as easily as the unvaccinated but Biden announced yesterday that he's making available the third shot in less than a year for everybody. Which one of you pro vaxxers are going to admit you're going to get it? Because vaccines don't work and the idiots in charge are going forward with the booster, this is the beginning of a lifetime regimen of experimental vaccines they will put you on.

If dutchgov recommends a 3d shot i will take it.

To me thats a no-brainer as my personal health fysician does the thinking for me.

As it should be.

Contacted ecr844 yet? He should have no reason to lie.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 02:24:23 PM
Contacted ecr844 yet? He should have no reason to lie.


I have my vaccination experts, some with Nobel Peace Prizes, giving me a good education. I also have a friend who worked in a lab doing clinical studies on drugs. These drugs passed the animal trials and he was involved in the human trials. Most drugs or vaccines never make it to the market and it takes years to get one approved. There's a reason most drugs don't make it to the market and that is because they harm our bodies. He knows the studies the COVID vaccines skipped and he says the vaccine is risky and won't take it. He says COVID is better for your health than the vaccine and once you get natural immunity, you'll be fine. The other option is to let the vaccine compromise your immunity system, turn you into a human petri dish to create more anti vaccine variants so they can pump vaccines into your body for the rest of your life. The vaccines won't stop COVID. They know it but they keep telling us experimental vaccines are the answer.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
One more thing Markje, many doctors, at least in America, can't deviate from the 'approved' message of their clinic or hospital that they work in. Doctors may not be able to speak freely. Bring the videos I posted here of the ex Pfizer VP and chief science officer, the founder of mRNA medicine, the French Nobel Peace Prize winner, and the senior project manager of epidemics at the Gates Foundation. It would be hard for any family doctor to dispute those 4 experts in vaccines who are qualified to lead teams of scientists. They are warning against the vaccines since they can lead to depopulaton. They've seen enough dead lab animals to know what they're talking about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 19, 2021, 03:32:19 PM
Beware folks.

The sources BillyB relies upon have only expressed their opinions.  None I know of have any research underway on Coronavirus, or vaccinations, nor have they published any studies, much less peer reviewed, on the virus or any aspect of vaccines for this virus.  Last time I researched, none had received a Nobel Peace Prize either.  There is a difference between VP of Pfizer and VP of a smaller part of Pfizer.

IOW, take anything BillyB says with a grain of salt, and sometimes even a 50lb sack.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 19, 2021, 05:06:43 PM
For those still pondering...

(https://i.postimg.cc/gj3J3Q2H/Screen-Shot-2021-08-19-at-7-02-05-PM.png)

https://www.wbay.com/2021/08/19/covid-19-wisconsin-dhs-compares-vaccinated-unvaccinated-case-numbers/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 05:12:00 PM
Beware folks.

The sources BillyB relies upon have only expressed their opinions.  None I know of have any research underway on Coronavirus, or vaccinations, nor have they published any studies, much less peer reviewed, on the virus or any aspect of vaccines for this virus.  Last time I researched, none had received a Nobel Peace Prize either.  There is a difference between VP of Pfizer and VP of a smaller part of Pfizer.

IOW, take anything BillyB says with a grain of salt, and sometimes even a 50lb sack.


Beware folks, BC is lying. He trusts big pharma and in their own data sheets that I posted here, they admit not all studies have been completed. The experts I follow read the published studies on the current vaccines. BC would know that if he watched the interviews. It's apparent he doesn't care about being fully informed. The French Nobel Peace Prize winner was conducting studies with his own patients. Again, BC didn't watch the interview. He doesn't care the outbreaks this summer are much worse than last summer when nobody was vaccinated. More people are dying and much more people are infected and creating anti vaccine variants prolonging this pandemic. BC wants you to trust television commercials that claim the vaccines are safe and effective although FDA fine print says the known significant risks and benefits are unknown. You can trust that government statement 100%.


For those still pondering, read the UK data report showing more vaccinated people are dying from COVID than unvaccinated. That doesn't include the deaths from the vaccine alone. BC continues to promote a product that the FDA has not been approved for use on humans.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 19, 2021, 06:32:51 PM
Thanks for your opinion BillyB.

Just note that facts speak for themselves.

Since you mention Nobel Prizes so much, you should find it interesting to learn not all of them are Peace Prizes.  Obama was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize.  IIRC you judged that a bad call, so again cherry-picking what fits your misinformed agenda.

Example:


Nobel Peace Prize winner and expert in virology says his vaccinated patients are shown to create variants that are vaccine resistant. He said people will die because of this. He also said it's unthinkable why we're vaccinating during a pandemic. This strategy is wrong.

http://seemorerocks.is/luc-montangier-we-must-be-ready-to-incinerate-the-bodies/


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/27/fact-check-false-claim-vaccines-attributed-nobel-prize-winner/7435564002/

Anything in the article not factual?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 07:14:23 PM
Alright BC, you win. Let's strip the Nobel Peace prize from my experts. Are you happy now?  It doesn't change the fact deaths are up, infections are skyrocketing in the middle of summer and the vaccine doesn't work as advertised. Those are facts. Because they aren't working, they may be compromising your immune system which will make it more difficult to fight future virus and bacteria infections. You're more likely to die earlier than expected. Significant risks are unknown. After this experiment is over, we'll know what happens to you and others. Enjoy your third shot in less than a year. When cold months arrive, you'll be getting an additional two shots as a Christmas present from the government. There will be a slick advertising slogan the experimental vaccine is new and improved for the variants.

The vaccine can't stop COVID and it creates the variants that will prolong the pandemic and possibly make it much more dangerous. The vaccine program they designed for you will never end. Too bad you're not understanding it now to save what's left of your health.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 19, 2021, 07:49:02 PM
My wife is going to get a religious exemption from taking the vaccine but if the governor of our state says medical personnel must be vaccinated we're moving. Doesn't make sense because no patient is any safer since vaccinated people get infected and transmit disease as easy as those that are unvaccinated. If her medical exemption doesn't work, we have big decisions to make. We may move to a state that doesn't force people to inject experimental vaccines into their bodies.

As my wife studies for the state nursing test, she's being offered RN jobs. She's an honor student and they are offering her $25,000 sign up bonuses. She's just beginning her career so I'm willing to give up mine and start over for her benefit. Government documents show reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed on vaccines. In the past botched vaccines caused 10's of thousands of babies to be born without limbs, brain, and heart damage. My wife wants healthy kids and she's not taking any chances with a vaccine that was rushed and is currently failing.


The government has successfully manipulated people's minds, including my mom's.


Me: "Mom, the governor is mandating vaccines for health care workers and I don't want my wife taking experimental vaccines so we may have to move to another state."

Mom: "You have no right to tell your wife what can and can't go into her body."

Me: "Mom, listen to yourself. I just told you the government wants to tell my wife what to put into her body and you aren't even angry at them. But I am responsible for my family's health."


I'm a stubborn guy. One of the reasons you guys aren't wearing masks, experiencing more lockdowns, more restrictions, and more mandates is because of people like me who call the government BS for what it is. Give the government what they want, they will continue to take. See the mass protests in Europe resisting the government over their vaccine and pandemic plans? That is a good thing. They are using this pandemic to strip freedoms from us forever. Big red flag which tells us about who they are.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2021, 09:58:58 PM
And BTW FP, and others against masks and vaccines, there is an easy way to find places that are more accommodating to your preferences and with fewer restrictions.  Just pick a spot in the darker areas of the map below.

I've never said I was against masks and the vaxx BC. Please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I said I'm not wearing any masks and I will never willingly take the experimental jab. If you chose to, power to you. I'm not having any of it, you do what you please. I like my natural healthy chances without the vaxx. I do truly believe Big Pharma and their front man Fauci is selling you and 1/3 of the worlds population a bill of goods. One thing for certain, the truth one way or another will come out
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2021, 10:01:22 PM

What about sending Social Mistake and Billy to the dark side of the moon?

Butt hurt much alphabet boy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 20, 2021, 07:20:24 AM

I've never said I was against masks and the vaxx BC. Please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I said I'm not wearing any masks and I will never willingly take the experimental jab.

Yet you take the effort to call my use of masks a fetish.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 20, 2021, 12:18:26 PM
It seems that at least one poster here does not have a working knowledge of the language he uses on this forum.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 20, 2021, 02:39:38 PM

I've never said I was against masks and the vaxx BC. Please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I said I'm not wearing any masks and I will never willingly take the experimental jab.

Yet you take the effort to call my use of masks a fetish.

You are wearing a mask because you are told to. A mask that does not protect you or those around you but because you are told to do so. Let's review, you are going to wear a mask to protect you and those around you from a virus that escaped from a level 4 lab in China? If that isn't a fetish, what is it? Perhaps you'd get more jollies donning a full hazmat suit and a respirator?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 20, 2021, 02:46:41 PM
It seems that at least one poster here does not have a working knowledge of the language he uses on this forum.

In an effort to help you FiFi I have pointed out your failings to you numerous times. Your comprehension skills lacking as they are does not allow you to understand the concept. I would advise that you try harder, study longer. When you feel you have gained a knowledge foundation strong enough to grasp these simple ideas please come back and I will attempt to help you further. Before you know it we'll have you conversing at a junior high level.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 20, 2021, 05:05:07 PM

What about sending Social Mistake and Billy to the dark side of the moon?

Butt hurt much alphabet boy?

No my butt does not hurt. Sort of amusing but also sad to listen to people who are intellectually challenged and socially incompetent defend their stupidity.

But carry on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 22, 2021, 06:38:20 AM

I've never said I was against masks and the vaxx BC. Please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I said I'm not wearing any masks and I will never willingly take the experimental jab.

Yet you take the effort to call my use of masks a fetish.

You are wearing a mask because you are told to. A mask that does not protect you or those around you but because you are told to do so. Let's review, you are going to wear a mask to protect you and those around you from a virus that escaped from a level 4 lab in China? If that isn't a fetish, what is it? Perhaps you'd get more jollies donning a full hazmat suit and a respirator?

First, I wear a mask because they help stop transmission.  Every time I speak, cough or sneeze I can spread an uncountable number of virus if I am infected.  It may also lessen somewhat less my chances of getting infected.   Second, doing so is quite consistent with what I learned in NBC training while in the military.  Third, I do so when the law requires me to do so.  So no, it's not just because I am being told.  When a surgeon operates, a mask is worn.  Is this to protect the patient or the surgeon?  The same applies here.  If everyone respects each other and does their part, mask mandates would not be needed.

Believe it or not, those full hazmat suits are as much or more about the scientists not contaminating their samples.  If it were only about their health, they could get away with doing much less, as most of their work is done in some kind of ventilated containment boxes anyway.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 22, 2021, 07:26:05 AM
Quote
First, I wear a mask because they help stop transmission.  Every time I speak, cough or sneeze I can spread an uncountable number of virus if I am infected.  It may also lessen somewhat less my chances of getting infected.   Second, doing so is quite consistent with what I learned in NBC training while in the military.  Third, I do so when the law requires me to do so.  So no, it's not just because I am being told.  When a surgeon operates, a mask is worn.  Is this to protect the patient or the surgeon?  The same applies here.  If everyone respects each other and does their part, mask mandates would not be needed.

Believe it or not, those full hazmat suits are as much or more about the scientists not contaminating their samples.  If it were only about their health, they could get away with doing much less, as most of their work is done in some kind of ventilated containment boxes anyway.

BC,
Masks do not stop or abate covid transmission. You can wear one, two or three masks and it won't make a dimes worth of difference. As long as you have your eyes exposed and breathe you are at risk of pathogens. That has been discussed on this board ad nausea. There is zero scientific evidence supporting that they do. Neither does lock downs, distancing, vaccines or doing the hokey pokey with a frozen chicken on your head. It is an airborne pathogen and yes, pretty much like every other virus we encounter. As for the masks in an operating theatre, they are to protect the surgeon and others from splatter that is and was the only reason for masks as protection.

They are lying to you BC and until you can wrap your brain around this one irrefutable fact you will be stuck in the circular logic that you currently find yourself. Please draw on your common sense if you have any left.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 22, 2021, 08:13:54 AM
Your opinion is noted FP, I'm not trying to change it.  I simply explained why I wear one in some situations,  whether someone tells me to, or not.  You do miss the point of my post entirely as well - about masking, not being about me or my risk of getting infected.  What I do for myself, is stand upwind if at all possible around others, or avoid getting close at all.

Again, what I do should be of little or no interest to you.  If you don't like it, avoid me.  If you are mandated to wear one, follow the rulez or find another place that better suits you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 22, 2021, 08:24:36 AM
Your opinion is noted FP, I'm not trying to change it.  I simply explained why I wear one in some situations,  whether someone tells me to, or not.  You do miss the point of my post entirely as well - about masking, not being about me or my risk of getting infected.  What I do for myself, is stand upwind if at all possible around others, or avoid getting close at all.

Again, what I do should be of little or no interest to you.  If you don't like it, avoid me.  If you are mandated to wear one, follow the rulez or find another place that better suits you.

It's not an "opinion" BC. You have a propensity to label any opposing view to yours as opinion and only yours as fact. You are fooling no one but yourself. It makes me no difference what you choose to do or what you choose to believe. But you are not allowed to make up your own science and state it as fact as your idols do. It doesn't make it fact and every opposing view opinion. Wear your mask and line up for your boosters. Hold dear to your heart whatever lie your believing if it helps you. But remember, keeping your head up your ass doesn't make it any more true
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 22, 2021, 08:39:55 AM
FP,

What I see is that in areas where folks do make the effort to mask up, distance and get vaccinated, infections, hospitalizations and deaths are much lower.

Like it or not, that is all I can say about that, and is plenty enough evidence for me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 22, 2021, 08:56:44 AM
FP,

What I see is that in areas where folks do make the effort to mask up, distance and get vaccinated, infections, hospitalizations and deaths are much lower.

Like it or not, that is all I can say about that, and is plenty enough evidence for me.

And that just simply isn't true. It is yet another lie perpetrated for more control by the big pharma elitists for you to believe. Ask yourself why there is such a different reaction to this corona virus as to all the others? Why would nearly a third of the worlds population accept a vaccination from the very people who want population control? The same people that want to kill you is going to save the world from a virus that kills .02% of us?

I've never claimed to know the complete truth and all of the motives and machinations behind the vaccines but, I am smart enough to know when someone is pissing on me and calling it rain. Big pharma has never had humanity listed anywhere as a priority or even a consideration. It is profits and only profits. Even you can clearly see the WHO and the CDC is but a mere servant of big pharma, can't you? The real truth and science has been completely bent and manipulated by those that do not have our health or interests in mind. If you look closer your see that these people are all one and the same
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 22, 2021, 12:10:03 PM
FP,

How do you account for 7 day average deaths in the US, that is at least three times more than in Italy, or any other EU country that mandates use of masks in certain situations, mandate use of green passes and have higher vaccination rates? This population adjusted.

How do you account for similar, very large differences in infections, hospitalizations, critical care, despite having a more elderly population?

But really, we've been through all this before.  The data does not support your position.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 22, 2021, 01:57:36 PM
Your opinion is noted FP, I'm not trying to change it.  I simply explained why I wear one in some situations,  whether someone tells me to, or not.  You do miss the point of my post entirely as well - about masking, not being about me or my risk of getting infected.  What I do for myself, is stand upwind if at all possible around others, or avoid getting close at all.

Again, what I do should be of little or no interest to you.  If you don't like it, avoid me.  If you are mandated to wear one, follow the rulez or find another place that better suits you.

It's not an "opinion" BC. You have a propensity to label any opposing view to yours as opinion and only yours as fact. You are fooling no one but yourself. It makes me no difference what you choose to do or what you choose to believe. But you are not allowed to make up your own science and state it as fact as your idols do. It doesn't make it fact and every opposing view opinion. Wear your mask and line up for your boosters. Hold dear to your heart whatever lie your believing if it helps you. But remember, keeping your head up your ass doesn't make it any more true


And yet thats all it is, an opinion for the both of you. Yet BC quotes facts, and you quote 'feelings' and not-hard evidence.

Contacted ECR844 yet? He's a first responder ambulance guy, guess what he says.. I have him on facebook and i wish i didn't.
His stories are heartbraking sometimes with the corona updates.

Especially that picture of the breathing-tube from a deceased corona patient, that was an eye-opener.

I also have a ICU-nurse in my direct family (niece) , she won't even talk to anti-vaxxers anymore because she hates talking to 'soon-dead people'.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 22, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
I have a very close friend whose sister I have meet a number of time that is a doctor. She caught the virus from her work of treating covid-19 patients. She nearly died as in intensive care and not expected to live close to dying. Including her I know three people that have become seriously ill from Coivid-19. I feel that anti-vaxxers are ignorant murders with their miss information. They refuse to see what is obviously because they want to drown in their believe that vaccine does not work or is worse than the virus. It does not matter how much it is proven other wise they continue on. They want to believe just let everyone catch it and it will be all right. That has so been proven to not work, but still they carry on.  Any kind of social distancing only prolongs the problem as countries that have thought they had it under control without vaccines are now having problems. It has been proven that you never reach herd immunity by catching the virus alone because you can still catch the next strain. There are Anti-vaxxers who are dying from the virus on the last day of life still would not of gotten the vaccine. How do you reason with that?   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 22, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
. . . I wear a mask because they help stop transmission.  Every time I speak, cough or sneeze I can spread an uncountable number of virus if I am infected.  It may also lessen somewhat less my chances of getting infected.   Second, doing so is quite consistent with what I learned in NBC training while in the military.  Third, I do so when the law requires me to do so.  So no, it's not just because I am being told.  When a surgeon operates, a mask is worn.  Is this to protect the patient or the surgeon?  The same applies here. .  .

Well stated!

The issue is those who are either willingly ignorant or have a disregard for community safety. It reminds me of 'adults' who leave loaded weapons around young children. I ponder are they arrogant or just stupid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 22, 2021, 05:22:16 PM
FP,

How do you account for 7 day average deaths in the US, that is at least three times more than in Italy, or any other EU country that mandates use of masks in certain situations, mandate use of green passes and have higher vaccination rates? This population adjusted.

How do you account for similar, very large differences in infections, hospitalizations, critical care, despite having a more elderly population?

But really, we've been through all this before.  The data does not support your position.


BC I'll say it again, They are lying to you. The data you consume on a daily basis, the news sources you absorb from, your politicians and world leaders, they are ALL lying to you. The data is the easiest to manipulate and done so to follow the narrative given them for any particular area. All of the covid measures and protocol including the vaxx is not going to protect you. The manipulated data says it will. We've never had to take a vaxx to live. We still do not but you have the world wide leaders telling you that you do. Have they never lied to us before?

Take those blinders off. Get out of your partisan thinking. It is not left or right as both has contributed to this mess we are in. Think clearly man, you think I should have a vaxx to protect you from a virus you have supposedly been vaxxed from. That is the definition of insanity. Covid is not some smart virus that plans an attack for people who aren't vaxxed or folks with a mask off. We have been sold a bill of goods and they keep doubling down. Understand, these people want us dead, vaxxed or not
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 22, 2021, 05:37:26 PM
FP,

How do you account for 7 day average deaths in the US, that is at least three times more than in Italy, or any other EU country that mandates use of masks in certain situations, mandate use of green passes and have higher vaccination rates? This population adjusted.

How do you account for similar, very large differences in infections, hospitalizations, critical care, despite having a more elderly population?

But really, we've been through all this before.  The data does not support your position.

BC I'll say it again, They are lying to you. The data you consume on a daily basis, the news sources you absorb from, your politicians and world leaders, they are ALL lying to you. The data is the easiest to manipulate and done so to follow the narrative given them for any particular area. All of the covid measures and protocol including the vaxx is not going to protect you. The manipulated data says it will. We've never had to take a vaxx to live. We still do not but you have the world wide leaders telling you that you do. Have they never lied to us before?

Take those blinders off. Get out of your partisan thinking. It is not left or right as both has contributed to this mess we are in. Think clearly man, you think I should have a vaxx to protect you from a virus you have supposedly been vaxxed from. That is the definition of insanity. Covid is not some smart virus that plans an attack for people who aren't vaxxed or folks with a mask off. We have been sold a bill of goods and they keep doubling down. Understand, these people want us dead, vaxxed or not

I do not think anyone is saying (yet) that you must have a vaccine. But I contracted polio because my parents did not believe in the vaccines.

What is being said use a mask and keep two meters/six feet away from others. Wash your hands.

Get tested frequently.

Is that so challenging?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 23, 2021, 01:48:21 AM
We've never had to take a vaxx to live.

Ok how about some analogy.

Data tells us Covid is 99% non-lethal. (not 0.02% as you claim).

So I'm giving you 100 pies, you may eat one.

But! I poisoned 1 also, with a horrid poison that attacks your lungs. Your death will be gasping for breath at least a week until you tiredly, finally give up and die.

Will you eat the pie?

Now I tell you there is an antidote for the poison. It will in 95% of the cases neutralize that poison and the other 5% means you won't die, but are hospitalized in 1%. the other 4% of those cases you recover on your own.

Thats the data officially recognised.

Now you will eat your pie, hopefully you won't die because you refuse the antidote in advance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 23, 2021, 07:04:15 AM

Ok how about some analogy.

Data tells us Covid is 99% non-lethal. (not 0.02% as you claim).

So I'm giving you 100 pies, you may eat one.

But! I poisoned 1 also, with a horrid poison that attacks your lungs. Your death will be gasping for breath at least a week until you tiredly, finally give up and die.

Will you eat the pie?

Now I tell you there is an antidote for the poison. It will in 95% of the cases neutralize that poison and the other 5% means you won't die, but are hospitalized in 1%. the other 4% of those cases you recover on your own.

Thats the data officially recognised.

Now you will eat your pie, hopefully you won't die because you refuse the antidote in advance.

First, the data is a lie. The entire covid panic and and vaccination is fundamentally flawed which makes everything you are believing about it now, a lie. Your analogy is flawed and at best misleading and worst not representative of the situation. We have numerous preventative measures to help aid in preventing it in the first place and medications to help in combating it if we do contract it. Although those treatments are being withheld in favor of "medical covid protocols".

The vaccine is killing people and in many instances just within a few days. Others it has maimed for life. Who knows what the long term effects are?

The answer your direct question is no, I would not eat any of your pie. Which is exactly why I will never willingly take a jab. Did you not see how hypocritical your analogy is? 99.8% of us can overcome contracting covid-19 through methods other than an experimental non-tested vaccine. Why would you want to be the guinea pig for that and just as importantly why would you promote it to others if you were in fact "concerned" for their health?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 23, 2021, 07:15:47 AM

I do not think anyone is saying (yet) that you must have a vaccine. But I contracted polio because my parents did not believe in the vaccines.

What is being said use a mask and keep two meters/six feet away from others. Wash your hands.

Get tested frequently.

Is that so challenging?


NONE of that protects us from covid. The PCR tests has an over 60% false positive rate as proclaimed by the now deceased inventor. You're just really not paying attention. Look around, France, Australia, New Zealand, Israel. PCR and covid passports to board a plane and travel. There is an avalanche and a rush to get the experimental vaccine in as many people as possible and even against their will. They are now also coming for the children.

There is so much going on with this virus the average Joe six pack such as yourself just isn't paying attention to. Just take the experimental jab, the boosters, continue to worry about covid and move the F#ck on? Really?

Btw, the polio vaccine was tested for many years before it was ever rolled out to the public and it too still has issues. Did you ever question how 6 big pharma companies had a vaxx almost instantaneously? How you ever checked the connection between those so called competitors?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 23, 2021, 08:15:15 AM

I do not think anyone is saying (yet) that you must have a vaccine. But I contracted polio because my parents did not believe in the vaccines.

What is being said use a mask and keep two meters/six feet away from others. Wash your hands.

Get tested frequently.

Is that so challenging?


NONE of that protects us from covid. The PCR tests has an over 60% false positive rate as proclaimed by the now deceased inventor. You're just really not paying attention. Look around, France, Australia, New Zealand, Israel. PCR and covid passports to board a plane and travel. There is an avalanche and a rush to get the experimental vaccine in as many people as possible and even against their will. They are now also coming for the children.

There is so much going on with this virus the average Joe six pack such as yourself just isn't paying attention to. Just take the experimental jab, the boosters, continue to worry about covid and move the F#ck on? Really?

Btw, the polio vaccine was tested for many years before it was ever rolled out to the public and it too still has issues. Did you ever question how 6 big pharma companies had a vaxx almost instantaneously? How you ever checked the connection between those so called competitors?

This.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 23, 2021, 08:50:36 AM
Markje,

You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.

The number of folks that do not trust any mitigation efforts, and die, is steadily growing.  Some still refute with their last breath, some go thinking they missed a chance to do better.

If that was all, I'd have no issues.  The only reason I reply is to counter mis and disinformation with known facts, and add my own experiences.  Thanks for sharing yours as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 23, 2021, 09:39:08 AM
Did you ever question how 6 big pharma companies had a vaxx almost instantaneously? How you ever checked the connection between those so called competitors?

They didn't. They used the time from SARS-1 onwards a long, long time ago. That was also a strain of corona-virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 23, 2021, 11:17:23 AM
Markje,

You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.

The number of folks that do not trust any mitigation efforts, and die, is steadily growing.  Some still refute with their last breath, some go thinking they missed a chance to do better.

If that was all, I'd have no issues.  The only reason I reply is to counter mis and disinformation with known facts, and add my own experiences.  Thanks for sharing yours as well.

A number of folks are taking the vaccine and believe themselves to be protected. They are not and many of those are dying. You are not countering mis or disinformation BC, you are spreading it. The basic foundation of everything you believe and post here on this subject is a prime example. The only fact we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing. Your continued spreading of information counter to that is opinion and misinformation

Did you ever question how 6 big pharma companies had a vaxx almost instantaneously? How you ever checked the connection between those so called competitors?

They didn't. They used the time from SARS-1 onwards a long, long time ago. That was also a strain of corona-virus.


Those didn't work, either,  but no, you are mistaken. Those did not use mRNA technology
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 23, 2021, 01:41:47 PM

A number of folks are taking the vaccine and believe themselves to be protected. They are not and many of those are dying. You are not countering mis or disinformation BC, you are spreading it. The basic foundation of everything you believe and post here on this subject is a prime example. The only fact we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing. Your continued spreading of information counter to that is opinion and misinformation

Of course, you can form such an opinion, if you believe that all sources of information that contrast are invalid and cannot be trusted.  Plenty of factual evidence has been presented in these threads that does not support your position.  It is overwhelming for those who have a modicum of faith in those responsible for developing the vaccines, distributing it, and approving them, along with those that determine other effective mitigation efforts.  The results can be seen in the data of infections, hospitalizations, intensive care usage, and number of deaths.  Many countries are having good and even great success.  That the US is not is due to a large number of folks like yourself that simply deny, divert and discredit.

On one hand, you deny and discredit all sources, and your other hand is filled with only opinions empty of any factual substance. 

Quote
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. This principle is contempt prior to examination. attrib.- H. Spencer

Today, the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was approved by FDA. 
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

Yet, you will call them liars, without any proof whatsoever.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 23, 2021, 02:37:13 PM

A number of folks are taking the vaccine and believe themselves to be protected. They are not and many of those are dying. You are not countering mis or disinformation BC, you are spreading it. The basic foundation of everything you believe and post here on this subject is a prime example. The only fact we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing. Your continued spreading of information counter to that is opinion and misinformation

Of course, you can form such an opinion, if you believe that all sources of information that contrast are invalid and cannot be trusted.  Plenty of factual evidence has been presented in these threads that does not support your position.  It is overwhelming for those who have a modicum of faith in those responsible for developing the vaccines, distributing it, and approving them, along with those that determine other effective mitigation efforts.  The results can be seen in the data of infections, hospitalizations, intensive care usage, and number of deaths.  Many countries are having good and even great success.  That the US is not is due to a large number of folks like yourself that simply deny, divert and discredit.

On one hand, you deny and discredit all sources, and your other hand is filled with only opinions empty of any factual substance. 

Quote
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. This principle is contempt prior to examination. attrib.- H. Spencer

Today, the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was approved by FDA. 
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

Yet, you will call them liars, without any proof whatsoever.

Of course you can form your own opinion, too. I'll repeat once more "The only facts we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing". None of your provided data counters or changes that
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 23, 2021, 03:23:28 PM

Of course you can form your own opinion, too. I'll repeat once more "The only facts we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing". None of your provided data counters or changes that

Italy, 7 day average deaths 45 per day
Germany, 7 day average deaths 15 per day
USA, 7 day average deaths 813 per day

Maybe vaccines, masks and distancing work better with pasta, and even better with bratwurst and bier?

How do you account for the very large difference in infections, deaths, hospitalizations and number of folks in ICU, even adjusting for population?

I have recent, direct experience with all of these countries.  I have seen with my own eyes what folks do, and don't do in each.  It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 23, 2021, 04:39:41 PM

Of course you can form your own opinion, too. I'll repeat once more "The only facts we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing". None of your provided data counters or changes that

Italy, 7 day average deaths 45 per day
Germany, 7 day average deaths 15 per day
USA, 7 day average deaths 813 per day

Maybe vaccines, masks and distancing work better with pasta, and even better with bratwurst and bier?

How do you account for the very large difference in infections, deaths, hospitalizations and number of folks in ICU, even adjusting for population?

I have recent, direct experience with all of these countries.  I have seen with my own eyes what folks do, and don't do in each.  It's not rocket science.

Exactly, it is not rocket science. You've provided nothing more than manipulated data and opinion
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 23, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Exactly, it is not rocket science. You've provided nothing more than manipulated data and opinion

Divert and discredit.

In other words, you are clueless as to why there is a difference between countries that practice vaccination and mitigation efforts to higher levels and the US that has difficulties doing so, and suffering greater losses.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 23, 2021, 06:39:33 PM
Exactly, it is not rocket science. You've provided nothing more than manipulated data and opinion

Divert and discredit.

In other words, you are clueless as to why there is a difference between countries that practice vaccination and mitigation efforts to higher levels and the US that has difficulties doing so, and suffering greater losses.

So say you. Enjoy your bondage
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 23, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
So say you. Enjoy your bondage

Ahh.. so whittled down to the core.  Do you really believe I live in bondage?

I've never seen store shelves here in the US so bare, so untended and in disarray. Store workers have given up. Even the famous Amazon two-day delivery jumped to a week.  I saw none of such before I left EU. Prices have jumped considerably as well, even for the basics, bread, meat, eggs, milk - all now cheaper in EU. Can't even dine inside at Wendy's due to 'covid'?

150 thousand infections per day in the US and still rising, a good portion of which are workers, is taking a toll.  Italy, with 6300 per day with the curve well flattened, adjusted for population would represent little over 30 thousand is bad enough.

So yeah, I'll stick with the green pass and masks where appropriate, with most folks doing their little part to keep infections down, while you continue living in bondage with the virus jerking your chain and so many like yourself simply don't give a crap.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 23, 2021, 09:33:59 PM
Today, the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was approved by FDA. 
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

Yet, you will call them liars, without any proof whatsoever.

After all the data and expert testimony I posted here, I'm gone a couple of days and see people promote vaccines again. :'(


As some of you know, an ex FDA chief is on the board of Pfizer and today the FDA approved their vaccine for use on humans. A fancy label doesn't make it safer. When normal vaccines take 7+ years to get approved, this one got approval in less than a year. Read the FDA statement. They say safety studies are ongoing. That means they approved this with safety studies not concluded. Approval is purely for political purposes to apply more controls on citizens. Companies can now mandate their employees to get vaccinated. Governments at all levels and private businesses can mandate those who are not vaccinated can't fly on planes, use public transportation, shop for food. They will deny those with natural better immunity from benefits while those who chose to vaccinate ruin their health, become super spreaders and create new variants to prolong the pandemic and control. You will have to put an app on your phone and if they call you in every two months to get a jab, you must comply or lose benefits. Other nations are ahead of America in removing people's freedoms.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine


The above was the official FDA statement. The below link is the official facts that came out today on the vaccine they just approved. I'll go step by step on how they deceive us.

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is still unapproved and is for emergency use only.

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine they renamed “Comirnaty” is an FDA approved vaccine.

Then they go on to tell us The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.

So you see, it's the same vaccine but they add a name and call it “approved” for use on humans. If you scroll further down the pages, you will see the significant risks and benefits are unknown. You still will not be allowed to sue them if you get harmed by the vaccine. They don't have confidence in their product but some of you guys will happily get triple jabbed in less than a year.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download


This study shows if you take the vaccines, your level of naturally producing antibodies drop 5 to 6 times lower. That means your natural immune system is significantly weakened by the vaccines and you will be dependent on booster vaccines to keep you alive. The more vaccines you take, the more damage you will do to your natural immune system. This cycle will progressively degrade your health and shorten your life expectancy. I think I linked this video before but it didn't register with some of you. I'll try to save your life again.

https://www.brighteon.com/f80252c0-a3f0-4c8c-a003-3df7e41354ed


Let's summarize what is happening based on early evidence.

1) The more you take vaccines, the more likely you'll get infected and spread disease, and ruin your immune system.

2) Because vaccines don't fully kill the virus, the virus is allowed to learn how to beat the vaccines and create variants making us into human petri dishes for them to grow.

3) The unvaccinated immune system not only attacks the spike protein of the virus but everything tearing it up from limb to limb. Natural immunity also will handle variants easily, unlike the vaccines.

4) Compromised immune systems can lead to premature death for hundreds of millions of people leading to world depopulation. We know this from experience of trying to create other coronavirus vaccines.

Don't believe this can happen? Listen to this government doctor named Dr. Fauci. In 28 seconds, he's summarizes it well. After watching the video, let it sink in that he and other government doctors know what my experts know and allowed this vaccine into our bodies knowing full well the worst case scenario can happen but we won't know for sure until this experiment on humans is over.

https://www.brighteon.com/93a0e297-5d74-4f7a-a9ea-7f2180760fd3


21 Myths

https://creativedestructionmedia.com/video/2021/08/23/you-think-you-know-the-truth-about-covid-vaccines/


Let's end this seriousness with a little comedy.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/30721
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on August 24, 2021, 12:38:18 AM
Posted this post by mistake to another threat and looks nobody took attention. Reposted here just as a reminder.

Does the Virus Exist?
SARS-CoV-2 Has Not Been Isolated?
“Biggest Fraud in Medical History”


(https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/virus-isolation-768x512-400x267.jpg)

Hell is Empty and the Devils are All Here,
William Shakespeare, The Tempest, 1610- 1611

Introduction

There is a sequence of outright lies and fabrications used to justify far-reaching policy decisions which in the course of the last 18 months are literally destroying people’s lives Worldwide.

“Fake science” is used to justify confinement, social distancing, the face mask, the prohibition of social gatherings,  cultural and sports events, the closure of economic activity, all of which are upheld as a means to repealing the “killer virus”.

Who is this “Killer Virus” which has been personified by both the media and our governments, held responsible for triggering economic and social chaos Worldwide?

You might recall that at the height of the February 2020 financial collapse, “V the Virus” was held responsible for the largest stock market crash since 1929.

Has the “Killer Virus” been Identified. Has SARS-CoV-2 been Isolated?

This article will review this contentious issue starting at the outset of the crisis in January 2020. Part of this analysis is based on research conducted in early 2020.

The central question raised in this review is the following: is there reliable evidence provided by the WHO and national  health authorities that the alleged SARS-CoV-2  virus has been isolated/purified  from an “unadulterated sample taken from a diseased patient”?

While the alleged virus was initially defined as the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in January 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) did not have in its possession details regarding the isolation/purification and identity of  2019-nCoV.

And because details concerning isolation / purification were not available, the WHO decided to “customize” The Real Time Reverse Transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction (rRT-PCR) Test using the alleged “similar” 2003 SARS virus (subsequently renamed SARS-1) as “a point of reference” for detecting genetic fragments of the novel 2019-nCoV.

What this decision entails is that novel 2019-CoV-2 is NOT a novel virus. It was categorized by the Chinese authorities and the WHO as “similar” to the 2003 SARS-CoV as well as to MERS.

2003 SARS-CoV was subsequently renamed SARS-CoV-1.


Read the whole article here:

History: Isolation of the Virus

https://www.globalresearch.ca/does-the-virus-exist-the-sars-cov-2-has-not-been-isolated-biggest-fraud-in-medical-history/5752066
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 24, 2021, 02:24:14 AM

Of course you can form your own opinion, too. I'll repeat once more "The only facts we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing". None of your provided data counters or changes that
the vaccine does work, one only has to look at the data from italy march 2020 and now.
Same for Netherlands, France and Germany.

Masks work, Lockdowns and distancing all work. But they are all not perfect either , their purpose is to get the R-rate of covid down (reproduction rate).

Anything above 1 means Covid lives on, anything below 1 means covid will die out.

Although nobody is sure which of these measures is affecting the R-rate the most, all of them in unison do get that r-rate down a lot.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 24, 2021, 05:04:50 AM
Spot-on mark.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 24, 2021, 05:47:51 AM

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine


The above was the official FDA statement. The below link is the official facts that came out today on the vaccine they just approved. I'll go step by step on how they deceive us.

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is still unapproved and is for emergency use only.

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine they renamed “Comirnaty” is an FDA approved vaccine.

Then they go on to tell us The FDA-approved COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the EUA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.

So you see, it's the same vaccine but they add a name and call it “approved” for use on humans. If you scroll further down the pages, you will see the significant risks and benefits are unknown. You still will not be allowed to sue them if you get harmed by the vaccine. They don't have confidence in their product but some of you guys will happily get triple jabbed in less than a year.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download


Your reading and comprehension skills fail you again.  You are intentionally spreading mis and disinformation.  Your school English teachers would be amazed at your linguistic contortions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 24, 2021, 06:20:01 AM

Of course you can form your own opinion, too. I'll repeat once more "The only facts we "know" about covid is, vaccines don't work, neither does masks, lock downs or distancing". None of your provided data counters or changes that
the vaccine does work, one only has to look at the data from italy march 2020 and now.
Same for Netherlands, France and Germany.

Masks work, Lockdowns and distancing all work. But they are all not perfect either , their purpose is to get the R-rate of covid down (reproduction rate).

Anything above 1 means Covid lives on, anything below 1 means covid will die out.

Although nobody is sure which of these measures is affecting the R-rate the most, all of them in unison do get that r-rate down a lot.

They are lying to you. None of those measures work separately or in unison. Vaxxed folks are dying from covid many of these followed all the protocols. What does work in most cases is prophylactic measures in both prevention and cure yet, these are being denied in most countries. Do you have even one hair on your ass to question why?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 24, 2021, 06:26:33 AM
Today, the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was approved by FDA. 
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

Yet, you will call them liars, without any proof whatsoever.

After all the data and expert testimony I posted here, I'm gone a couple of days and see people promote vaccines again. :'(



STOP! You are evading their comfort zones with some sensibilities and truth. They are offended
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 24, 2021, 06:30:30 AM
STOP! You are evading their comfort zones with some sensibilities and truth. They are offended

Sorry FP, but lets not talk about truth when thos purporting to spout such cannot comprehend what they read.

Blind leading the blind.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 24, 2021, 06:56:35 AM

They are lying to you. None of those measures work separately or in unison. Vaxxed folks are dying from covid many of these followed all the protocols. What does work in most cases is prophylactic measures in both prevention and cure yet, these are being denied in most countries. Do you have even one hair on your ass to question why?

simple critical thinking applies here the same as with other facts, with a bit of thinking you can reason out yourself if they work without having to believe anyone.

Lockdowns: No contact, no transmit, its that easy. Therefore it works. If the virus can't reach you, it can't be transmitted to you!

Masks:
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/rawImage.png)

And finally the social distancing. It works almost the same as the lockdowns albeit less perfect:
The virus is airborne and can travel approximately 1,5m under normal circumstances. With strong winds it can be further and within closed rooms without airflows it can be further. But in order to have some cut-off point, 1,5m was chosen. It will prevent 90% or more of the virus particles to travel the air-gap and reach you. No contact, no transmit. That easy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 24, 2021, 02:28:33 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrCQnfYK/Screen-Shot-2021-08-24-at-4-26-05-PM.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 24, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
BC, Faux Pas is likely to tell you that the 'adjusted figures' mean that the numbers have been manipulated and that as many people with vaccinations have been hospitalized as unvaccinated people. :)

The only cure for ignorance is a willingness to learn.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on August 24, 2021, 03:24:18 PM

The only cure for ignorance is a willingness to learn.

What is the cure for sheer stupidity???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 24, 2021, 03:49:05 PM
BC, Faux Pas is likely to tell you that the 'adjusted figures' mean that the numbers have been manipulated and that as many people with vaccinations have been hospitalized as unvaccinated people. :)

Oh, the post wasn't directed to him, but sure, I can imagine such a reply.  It's ok.  Slowly, but surely, folks will come 'round.  The data is already very significant and growing day by day.  Even Trump told folks to get it and that it's ok, albeit to a booing crowd.  Someone will say there were hidden hand signals or such to the contrary, though, as if Trump was under some duress to say what he said.

As my stay here in the US goes on, it really surprises me that folks who insist they are always there when their neighbor needs help in a crisis, IMO are doing anything but helping when it comes to stepping up to the plate to manage the virus.

I hate being so pessimistic, but visiting from elsewhere, the differences are simply too stark not notice and shake my head.  I'm in a GOP state.  Maybe up north I'd feel a little different.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 24, 2021, 06:38:17 PM

The only cure for ignorance is a willingness to learn.

What is the cure for sheer stupidity???

Death
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Lord of the Dance on August 24, 2021, 06:58:08 PM

The only cure for ignorance is a willingness to learn.

What is the cure for sheer stupidity???

Death

 :ROFL:  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 25, 2021, 04:32:20 AM

The only cure for ignorance is a willingness to learn.

What is the cure for sheer stupidity???

To my way of thinking, they are similar concepts. Stupidity is possibly a more aggressive form, of ignorance, a choice to reject the option of learning.

As we have seen in the current context, ignorance means that people end up in hospital on a ventilator. They regret their ill-informed choices. And then they die.

Stupidity ends up In the same situation but still shouts out that the plague is a scam and that vaccination was a way to control the sheeple. And then he dies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 25, 2021, 04:39:43 AM
There is a cure for ignorance, none for stupidity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 25, 2021, 06:26:23 AM
It seems to me that people like Faux Pas and Billykins are scared.

it is clear from what they write. If they were not frightened of being vaccinated (in this context) then they'd get the job because to do so has other, non-medical, benefits. They could do that even if they thought that the jab was absolutely useless at preventing Covid.

The sad thing is that in most cases, knowledge is the most effective cure for fear.

But fear has a side effect. Fear tends to reduce the ability of the victim to think. For people who are not good at thinking fear can have a paralytic effect. Billykins and Faux Pas (and millions of others) are paralysed by their fear, unable to countenance the very action that can remove their fear. But they are, as they think, rational, sensible, men. So they need to find what they think is a rational, sensible, justification for not getting vaccinated; a reason that enables them to believe they have 'thought' and now they feel no fear.

In these poor people, fear has won. They are in the thrall of their fear. Nothing can persuade them. That's why in the USA, now that most of the rational people have been vaccinated, society needs to address these incompetent, fearful, ignorant people and they do so with the only tool left in the armoury - force. That's why getting vaccination is becoming mandatory in many parts of society.

Of course, people like these still have a choice. They will not be pulled off the streets and forcibly vaccinated - and I have no concept that this will ever happen, not even in the USA. But these people will choose to give up their employment, choose to not travel, choose to not access many social and cultural events, choose to not receive an education.

I am OK with that. Let these people choose to live limited lives. They have the right to make a choice. And we have a right to be protected from the worst effects of their choice.

But I REALLY, REALLY wish that they were able to overcome their fears. If they learned to do that then all areas of their lives would be better. A life without fear is a much better life than one filled with fear, but they have proobably never expereinced that state.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on August 25, 2021, 09:01:19 AM
Masks:
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/rawImage.png)

And finally the social distancing. It works almost the same as the lockdowns albeit less perfect:
The virus is airborne and can travel approximately 1,5m under normal circumstances. With strong winds it can be further and within closed rooms without airflows it can be further. But in order to have some cut-off point, 1,5m was chosen. It will prevent 90% or more of the virus particles to travel the air-gap and reach you. No contact, no transmit. That easy.

Mark I was a smoker for nearly 45 years. I stopped smoking since 16 Sep 2018, when I went to hospital for heart tests and was diagnosed suffering from Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). Here in the UK I am exempt  from wearing a mask....... but of course I keep all distance etc.

Last year I travelled to Cyprus and in Greece (Corfu , Kos) and had not the slightest problem. I took a free test on NHS......and all went well.

I have never used a mask anywhere and never was told to do so, neither I have taken any vaccination..... Every 2 weeks I make a self test, which is FREE  and was never found anything  different from NEGATIVE. I have visited all kinds of shop, without any problem.

My life has not been curtailed and my wife has done the 2 ASTRA Zen... vaccines.....she works for the local government and she must have 2 tests a week.......all NEGATIVE, so far and she mixes with many people.

According to many reports all the Vaccines they are dished out under a temporary experimental
licence and not a proper, a Flu Vaccination, which I do yearly.

Looks that he BioNTech and  Pfizer have many good  (corrupt) friends in the USA Government like the incorruptible... JO Biden. Sure his son must be very happy! for their illegal licence.

BTW look the reports and results from Israel where they have Vaccinated 3 times all their population........something is not right and many people in big numbers are still infected.........from the new variation of this flu infection.

So what is the point for me to wear a mask? .....To cover my ugly mug?

ANDREWFI: I have posteda couple of articles and I can only guess you did not bothered to read hem and make any comments.

I wonder why?

 :reading:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 25, 2021, 09:14:26 AM
Wiz, I apologise. I had not realised that it was a requirement that I read and reply to your outpourings.

Must apologise a second time because I can not promise to give your future words any more consideration than hitherto.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 25, 2021, 10:27:15 AM
It seems to me that people like Faux Pas and Billykins are scared.

I respectfully disagree, Andrew.

I believe many, maybe including FP and BillyB, have simply adopted their position out of political principle, and are now so deeply entrenched that their ladders no longer suffice to get out of their foxholes.  Plenty of folks outside the trenches are offering longer ladders at no cost, and without shame, but pride and ego keep them from accepting.

It's great to have principles, but sometimes just have to let go of 'em.  Guess that's why there are some reports of folks getting vaccinated on the sly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 25, 2021, 10:41:13 AM
Political principle is a figleaf.

Choices about one's health are not, at least for normal people, a matter of politics.
A virus or bacterium does not discriminate based upon one's political partisanship.

These are people who do not take sensible measures because they are scared to do so and worse yet, are afraid to learn the truth. That's ignorance at work, enabling the fear that leads to stupidity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 25, 2021, 11:42:05 AM
BC, Don't get emotionally upset the government FDA factsheet tells you there are two identical vaccines, one is not approve and the other with a fancy name is improved. It's not what you want to hear but it's true, the new name vaccine is no safer than the unapproved version that is still used. The Pfizer BioNTech remamed Comirnaty had it's approval applied for by BioNTech out of Germany. Pfizer's name was not on the application for approval. Lots of funny business going on to manipulate the sheeple's minds that the Pfizer vaccine is approved and all of a sudden safe. Always read the fine print. Significant risks and benefits are unknown. But instead, you guys keep irresponsibly selling the product to your friends and family. What did you think about that Boris Johnson video I posted in the past when he said vaccines have not reduced infections or deaths? Is he lying?


These are people who do not take sensible measures because they are scared to do so and worse yet, are afraid to learn the truth. That's ignorance at work, enabling the fear that leads to stupidity.

Why are you vaccinated people so worried about the unvaccinated?  I'm not worried about the virus. I'm not worried about the variants. I probably had COVID since I been in the same room as people who had it but asymptomatic because my immune system crushed it. You can triple mask, periodically stop work and isolate, and take multiple jabs every year forever if it makes you feel safe. If I die, it's one less Billykins you'd have to deal with which should make you happy.


the vaccine does work, one only has to look at the data from italy march 2020 and now.
Same for Netherlands, France and Germany.


Netherlands summer outbreak had as many infections as last winter. deaths are up and infections more than 100 times worse than last summer when nobody was vaccinated. Netherlands did not have a fluke outbreak. All nations that are heavily vaccinated seen skyrocketing infections and increases of deaths/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherlands/


Final submission reports aren't coming out till 2025 or later. Idea is to pump vaccines into people till 2027 or later.

https://beckernews.com/new-the-fine-print-in-fdas-authorization-docs-suggests-covid-vaccine-pushes-until-at-least-2027-41077/


Yesterday, CEO of Pfizer said it's likely an anti vaccine variant will emerge and they can make a vaccine for an all new variant in 3 months.

https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronavius-variant-likely-2021-8


 6 hours later, media reports the Lambda variant probably can evade vaccines. See how that works folks? While the Delta variant is being dealt with using controls on the population and a booster shot, they are giving us a hint that you'll need all new vaccines soon. This cycle will never end because the vaccinated are human petri dishes creating anti vaccine variants. The program is designed to keep pumping sh!t into your bodies and manipulate your minds to get you to like it. So while you take booster shots for the Alpha and Delta virus every 6-8 months, you will have to take all new vaccines for the Lamda and other viruses. They can put an app on your phone to let you know to come every other week for your jab. All these jabs will cover all variants named after the Greek alphabet and then some.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-study-suggests-the-lambda-variant-may-evade-vaccines/ar-AANI01f?ocid=msedgntp


US military starting to use color coded armbands to distinguish the vaccinate from the unvaccinated. Papers/passports and other things will help bring back segregation to deny people benefits and possibly food.

https://beckernews.com/22-military-troops-now-report-being-forced-to-wear-arm-bands-to-prove-vaccine-status-40968/


House speaker Pelosi at fundraiser with elite. No masks or social distancing. The servants had to wear masks. My governor is making vaccinated and unvaccinated put on masks again but you will always see government officials and elites not take the virus seriously. Or, maybe they know the truth.

https://t.me/realx22report/3680


Besides predicting election rigging, back in 2018 Q posted that big pharma and some vaccines will be used to control us and depopulate the earth. Q knew what the Cabal was up to.

https://qalerts.app/?n=1010


2017 John Hopkins study that was funded by Bill Gates. It was done to predict a future pandemic and how to deal with it. The title was "The SPARS Pandemic". It's a long read but here's a brief rundown.

In 2023 a novel coronavirus that originated in Asia shows up on earth.

They name the new virus SPARS-CoV and use social media to help spread the word on how to combat it.

Early case fatality rate was 4.7% causing panic but in the end, case fatality rate was determined to be only 0.6% which is a little more dangerous than the flu.

In less than a year, a vaccine was created named Corovax. Massive ad campaign was created to get people vaccinated.

Anti vaccine groups emerges claiming the vaccines aren't safe, long term side effects not known, and not enough testing done.

Government uses social media and other means in their effort to vaccinate the entire population and combat the anti vaccine message.

The study concluded the very real possibility of a future SPARS pandemic that necessitates continued commitment to vaccination programs.

Back in 2017, this study was not based on a true story.

https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/spars-pandemic-scenario-copy.pdf
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 25, 2021, 01:27:06 PM
BC, Don't get emotionally upset the government FDA factsheet tells you there are two identical vaccines, one is not approve and the other with a fancy name is improved. It's not what you want to hear but it's true, the new name vaccine is no safer than the unapproved version that is still used. The Pfizer BioNTech remamed Comirnaty had it's approval applied for by BioNTech out of Germany. Pfizer's name was not on the application for approval. Lots of funny business going on to manipulate the sheeple's minds that the Pfizer vaccine is approved and all of a sudden safe.

Quote
On August 23, 2021, the FDA approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals.
  https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

There is nothing confusing at all BillyB.  Comirnaty is simply the name that will be used to market the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.  My vaccination certificate says Comirnaty.

EUA applies for those 12-15 years of age, but approved for all 16 and over.

Quote
Always read the fine print. Significant risks and benefits are unknown. But instead, you guys keep irresponsibly selling the product to your friends and family.

Again, learn how to read and comprehend, along with understanding the full context.  We discussed this in the past as well.  The fine print does not say what you say it does.


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on August 25, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
Wiz, I apologise. I had not realised that it was a requirement that I read and reply to your outpourings.

Must apologise a second time because I can not promise to give your future words any more consideration than hitherto.

Andrew no need to apologise and it is not a requirement that you read my postings and more importantly make any comments in reply to the articles I brought to everybody's attention.

Your effort in educating everybody on the board regarding "Fear of some people",  it's very commendable but in my view not very convincing and productive.

In my view I thought that you more from everybody else would pay attentions to the facts reported in those articles, not by me but from people that know better then us the subject in question. As usual my assumptions were wrong.

 tiphat

.



 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 25, 2021, 07:29:43 PM
Well how sweet! The vaxxers have formed a circle jerk. One might only assume for the purpose of mutual mental masturbation of each other over their unwise choices of believing what they have been told. Their fear of covid has them cowering down and to attempt to ridicule anyone who thinks differently than they do.

FiFi, fear of covid just doesn't even register with me. I know that you are unable to comprehend that given the constant state of fear in which you find yourself. You are so scared of a virus you will let them experiment on you like a common lab rat. You need affirmations that everything is going to be "okay". That's just the type of errr ummm 'man" you are.  You are destroying your immune system because someone promised you a false sense of security and you bought it. You seem to have found more folks here who share your plight. Rejoice and don't let me interrupt your little sessions here.

You are a gullible little man who takes orders well. You are devoid of any sense of shame as your manhood and that one shred of self worth you had left has fled with the spent hypodermic they jabbed you with. It's a shame really. I'll pray for you and I'll pray that the vaccine isn't as bad as the early returns dictate it is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 25, 2021, 10:08:02 PM
It seems to me that people like Faux Pas and Billykins are scared.

I respectfully disagree, Andrew.

I believe many, maybe including FP and BillyB, have simply adopted their position out of political principle, and are now so deeply entrenched that their ladders no longer suffice to get out of their foxholes.  Plenty of folks outside the trenches are offering longer ladders at no cost, and without shame, but pride and ego keep them from accepting.

It's great to have principles, but sometimes just have to let go of 'em.  Guess that's why there are some reports of folks getting vaccinated on the sly.

I concur with BC. Some have dug a deep hole that they can not climb out of.

For some it is hard to say oops I made a mistake.

Just look at Social Mistakes post regarding the Polio vaccine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 25, 2021, 10:46:43 PM
Again, learn how to read and comprehend, along with understanding the full context.  We discussed this in the past as well.  The fine print does not say what you say it does.


What part of "Significant risks and benefits are unknown" do you not understand? If the fact sheet said all safety tests were completed and there are no risks but minor such as rash or soreness of the arm, you'd be shoving those words in my face celebrating like you won the Super Bowl. The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand you can't do 7 years worth of safety tests in less than a year.

If Italy goes the same way some nations are going by denying the right to shop for food if one can't show proof of vaccination, would you consider that a great idea? Starve people to death if they don't get the jab? Governments don't care about us if they threaten death and steal freedoms unless we comply with their never ending jab program that will not end the pandemic and actually prolong the pandemic as human petri dishes create new variants.

If your neighbor refuses the jab for personal, religious, or other reasons and isn't allowed to shop for food, will you help him and his family or would you prefer to watch his family starve thinking that was a good thing? Governments in the past knew how to manipulate people's minds. There was a time it was illegal to hide Anne Frank but it was legal to put her in a concentration camp and kill her. People thinking they were doing a good thing reporting people like Anne Frank to get her jailed and killed.


I was at the gym tonight and met a Romanian lady. She lived in America for 30 years and told me she is sad because she now knows three women who gave their infants the vaccine and they died. She also told me women are missing their periods. I told her where to go to learn reproductive toxicity studies were not completed and significant risks and benefits are unknown. She also told me she knows a doctor who quit his job after the hospital he worked at made him write on the death certificate everyone had COVID. The more stories I hear about this, the more I understand our government wants inflated numbers to scare us this virus is very dangerous. Democratic governors early in the Pandemic put infected elderly in old folks home to get all elderly killed. Another technique for inflating numbers and scaring everybody.


Oxford U study shows vaccinated people carry 251 times viral load and poses threat to unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not only petri dishes for viruses to grow and mutate, they are super spreaders.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/vaccinated-healthcare-workers-threat-unvaccinated-patients-co-workers/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 26, 2021, 01:13:33 AM
What part of "Significant risks and benefits are unknown" do you not understand? If the fact sheet said all safety tests were completed and there are no risks but minor such as rash or soreness of the arm, you'd be shoving those words in my face celebrating like you won the Super Bowl.
We do, but you keep denying them , together with FP.

The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out.
Neither me, nor Avhdb, nor BC have resorted to namecalling, yet you guys do. You must have run out of normal arguments.

One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand you can't do 7 years worth of safety tests in less than a year.
Covid isn't new in this world , the Corona virus that causes it has many predecessors (SARS et.al.) for which also action was taken, the vaccine has been in development a long time and now is finally ready for human use.


If Italy goes the same way some nations are going by denying the right to shop for food if one can't show proof of vaccination, would you consider that a great idea? Starve people to death if they don't get the jab?
No thats a horrendous idea and it will never come to pass in Europe. Vaccination (thank god is) still a choice here and not mandatory.
The plus being that if 70% of the people get the jab, we can let the other guys be wrong and not think about it. (herd immunity)

Governments don't care about us if they threaten death and steal freedoms unless we comply with their never ending jab program that will not end the pandemic and actually prolong the pandemic as human petri dishes create new variants.
and yet, the pandemic is nearly over here in Netherlands. We are allowed to do anything we want, facemasks have stopped along with most other rules. From november the last thing will be lifted, the music festivals and other huge-crowd-gathering events. Then life is back to normal.

If your neighbor refuses the jab for personal, religious, or other reasons and isn't allowed to shop for food, will you help him and his family or would you prefer to watch his family starve thinking that was a good thing? Governments in the past knew how to manipulate people's minds. There was a time it was illegal to hide Anne Frank but it was legal to put her in a concentration camp and kill her. People thinking they were doing a good thing reporting people like Anne Frank to get her jailed and killed.
Of course i would help my neighbours, you're grasping for straws here with these insane train of thought. It will never happen. People will riot long before this, even the pro-vaxxers.

As to anne frank , she was reported by a jealous neighbour who saw their loved ones killed by the nazi's.  Nothing to do with your reasons.

I was at the gym tonight and met a Romanian lady. She lived in America for 30 years and told me she is sad because she now knows three women who gave their infants the vaccine and they died. She also told me women are missing their periods. I told her where to go to learn reproductive toxicity studies were not completed and significant risks and benefits are unknown. She also told me she knows a doctor who quit his job after the hospital he worked at made him write on the death certificate everyone had COVID. The more stories I hear about this, the more I understand our government wants inflated numbers to scare us this virus is very dangerous. Democratic governors early in the Pandemic put infected elderly in old folks home to get all elderly killed. Another technique for inflating numbers and scaring everybody.
Again, grasping at straws.  You met some random lady who knew a doctor, yes quite believable.

Oxford U study shows vaccinated people carry 251 times viral load and poses threat to unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not only petri dishes for viruses to grow and mutate, they are super spreaders.
And that same Oxford U study showed that unvaccinated people carry 24112 times a viral load. Much, much more. Which is logical, because with a vaccine your immune system has been trained to combat the virus and it starts to do that immediatly.

But don't let the facts hit you in the head, you duck them you hear me? They might hurt your belief that the vaccins are wrong.


https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/vaccinated-healthcare-workers-threat-unvaccinated-patients-co-workers/
Ah right, some website with the same stature as the MIT one I used to quote a couple of pages back. MIT after all, is some small unknown organisation for learning whilst this is the creme-the-la-creme of knowledge.

And if you don't trust your own universities, they did a piss-poor job of educating you and you are right to mistrust them.

Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 26, 2021, 01:18:41 AM
Well how sweet! The vaxxers have formed a circle jerk. One might only assume for the purpose of mutual mental masturbation of each other over their unwise choices of believing what they have been told. Their fear of covid has them cowering down and to attempt to ridicule anyone who thinks differently than they do.

FiFi, fear of covid just doesn't even register with me. I know that you are unable to comprehend that given the constant state of fear in which you find yourself. You are so scared of a virus you will let them experiment on you like a common lab rat. You need affirmations that everything is going to be "okay". That's just the type of errr ummm 'man" you are.  You are destroying your immune system because someone promised you a false sense of security and you bought it. You seem to have found more folks here who share your plight. Rejoice and don't let me interrupt your little sessions here.

You are a gullible little man who takes orders well. You are devoid of any sense of shame as your manhood and that one shred of self worth you had left has fled with the spent hypodermic they jabbed you with. It's a shame really. I'll pray for you and I'll pray that the vaccine isn't as bad as the early returns dictate it is.

Namecalling without facts, you must be really desperate and run out of normal arguments.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 26, 2021, 01:31:12 AM
Meanwhile in the Netherlands:
Quote
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5160750/coronapatienten-in-ziekenhuizen-ontkennen-corona/

sigh. sigh. sigh. sigh.

In Wappieland Netherlands,

It has already come this far:
In at least 15 hospitals, doctors (M/F), sisters (F) and brothers (M) are sometimes confronted with corona patients and their loved ones who deny that corona exists.

While those people demonstrably have corona. And not a little corona either, no, really seriously ill IC-on-the-belly-lying-you-will-die-soon-corona. But yeah, they 'do their own research' on Facebook and Bitchute from which it follows that corona is a conspiracy of 'the government' because 'Great Reset', squeaky cry.

CORONA DOES EXIST INCREDIBLE COMPLOT MARMOT THAT YOU ARE!
 THERE YOU ARE NOT LYING ON YOUR BELLY WITH A TUBE IN YOUR THROAT TO CHOKE IN YOUR OWN LUNG FLUID?

Teringjantje. We do understand that there will be too few ICU nurses when, thanks to unvaccinated Netherlands, the beds will be filled again en masse. If you are faced with a such a tool, working your ass off in a high-risk warzone, such a patient will come and tell you that 2+2=5 because Jensen or a Godwinning vet said that additions were made in Davos in a Bilderberg hotel. Then suffocate in it. Literal. Shouldn't be a problem either, choking on something that doesn't exist anyway, no worries! Tip for every corona patient who says that corona does not exist : after a friendly nod 'you are absolutely right' go home and be healthy again.
(PS: Translation done by google, some misstakes fixed by me).

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 26, 2021, 04:50:35 AM
Again, learn how to read and comprehend, along with understanding the full context.  We discussed this in the past as well.  The fine print does not say what you say it does.


What part of "Significant risks and benefits are unknown" do you not understand? If the fact sheet said all safety tests were completed and there are no risks but minor such as rash or soreness of the arm, you'd be shoving those words in my face celebrating like you won the Super Bowl. The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand you can't do 7 years worth of safety tests in less than a year.

Says nothing of the sort.  From the link you posted prior (before full authorization)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YC6ghjht/Screen-Shot-2021-08-26-at-6-20-11-AM.png)

I assume the difficulty you are experiencing comprehending what is written is because the document is written above your reading level.  Suggest you find a good English teacher or tutor and have them translate it for you.

Quote
If Italy goes the same way some nations are going by denying the right to shop for food if one can't show proof of vaccination, would you consider that a great idea? Starve people to death if they don't get the jab? Governments don't care about us if they threaten death and steal freedoms unless we comply with their never ending jab program that will not end the pandemic and actually prolong the pandemic as human petri dishes create new variants.

Name the countries who are denying folks the right to shop for groceries without vaccination.  There is no issue in Italy, anyone can shop for groceries, but do have to wear masks while in the store and maintain distancing.  Your exaggeration and projection is noted.

Quote
If your neighbor refuses the jab for personal, religious, or other reasons and isn't allowed to shop for food, will you help him and his family or would you prefer to watch his family starve thinking that was a good thing? Governments in the past knew how to manipulate people's minds. There was a time it was illegal to hide Anne Frank but it was legal to put her in a concentration camp and kill her. People thinking they were doing a good thing reporting people like Anne Frank to get her jailed and killed.

It's not an issue.  Only you are making it one.  I recall something about molehills and mountains. You are trying to create another Mt Everest out of sand.  It won't work.


Quote
I was at the gym tonight and met a Romanian lady. She lived in America for 30 years and told me she is sad because she now knows three women who gave their infants the vaccine and they died. She also told me women are missing their periods. I told her where to go to learn reproductive toxicity studies were not completed and significant risks and benefits are unknown. She also told me she knows a doctor who quit his job after the hospital he worked at made him write on the death certificate everyone had COVID. The more stories I hear about this, the more I understand our government wants inflated numbers to scare us this virus is very dangerous. Democratic governors early in the Pandemic put infected elderly in old folks home to get all elderly killed. Another technique for inflating numbers and scaring everybody.

Are infants being given vaccines?  Where?  Was a VAERS report made?  Have the VAERS ID for these incidents?  Did the doctor mentioned report the incidents he/she observed?  Rumors are rumors, and not fact.

Instead of giving bullshit advice, if someone asks, refer them to a health professional. 


Quote
Oxford U study shows vaccinated people carry 251 times viral load and poses threat to unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are not only petri dishes for viruses to grow and mutate, they are super spreaders.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/vaccinated-healthcare-workers-threat-unvaccinated-patients-co-workers/

Here is the preprint of the study.  https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733  I can imagine that healthcare workers are exposed to very high levels of the virus on a daily basis, certainly would have higher viral loads.  That vaccinated folks can get the virus is known.  This paper indicates that it is possible that an infected vaccinated person can transmit to another vaccinated person.  That's it as far as this layman can see.  None of the subjects had serious disease, indicating that the AZ vaccine worked.  The paper is pending peer review.  https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/9e8955a0-7394-47dd-a904-cc8244f5c87e-MECA.pdf?abstractid=3897733&mirid=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 26, 2021, 06:12:31 AM

Namecalling without facts, you must be really desperate and run out of normal arguments.

I haven't called anyone any names. Vaxxers isn't a derogatory just merely a choice you've willing accepted. Are you familiar with the term hegelian dialectic?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 26, 2021, 06:21:12 AM

Namecalling without facts, you must be really desperate and run out of normal arguments.

I haven't called anyone any names. Vaxxers isn't a derogatory just merely a choice you've willing accepted. Are you familiar with the term hegelian dialectic?
Nope. Since I am Dutch native, I might be missing out on local folklore and Slang.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on August 26, 2021, 07:36:40 AM
I think somebody is using words that he does not understand - unless he is choosing to use words out of context. A bit of a faux pas, it would seem.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 26, 2021, 09:21:47 AM
FiFi it seems as though I am using words you don’t understand. If you need help just say so and I will try to help you. Although it’s becoming more obvious by the day that you may be beyond any help. Your usual MO of “if you can’t plaster them with facts, then dazzle them with bullshit” rarely works these days eh?

Go ahead google or yahoo or whatever it is you do and get back to me
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 26, 2021, 09:46:29 AM

Again, learn how to read and comprehend, along with understanding the full context.  We discussed this in the past as well.  The fine print does not say what you say it does.


What part of "Significant risks and benefits are unknown" do you not understand? If the fact sheet said all safety tests were completed and there are no risks but minor such as rash or soreness of the arm, you'd be shoving those words in my face celebrating like you won the Super Bowl. The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand you can't do 7 years worth of safety tests in less than a year.

Says nothing of the sort.  From the link you posted prior (before full authorization)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YC6ghjht/Screen-Shot-2021-08-26-at-6-20-11-AM.png)



You should highlight more words. Significant risks and benefit and their extent are unknown. The extent could go all the way to death. If you go into court saying the government knew the potential significant risks and benefits, the jury and judge will laugh you out of court. But you can't get into court anyway because they removed your ability to sue them. And because the fine print is clear, you can't get around it because they didn't deceive you. You can try and argue the the tv commercials deceived you though.

The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out.
Neither me, nor Avhdb, nor BC have resorted to namecalling, yet you guys do. You must have run out of normal arguments.

[/quote]

Where have I name called anybody? Avhdb got insulting and BC called me ignoramus or some name like that. Idiots were used. But you didn't scold those people.


People in France bringing their own food and sitting outside bars and restaurants that require vaccination papers. You guys don't think government can deny citizens food? It can and is happening.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/31041


Australian police taking child away from parent to force vaccination.

https://t.me/SteelTruthChannel/3167


Armed French police keep people without vaccination papers from entering grocery store.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/30907


New Zealand locks down entire country after one case shows up.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/30327


You guys can search for more of this stuff going on around the world but seems like some of you are so focus on the believing the vaccine is the miracle cure you don't have time to see what is going on around you. Look how their using this event against you. If you vaccinated people are so well protected, you shouldn't feel a need to spend so much time convincing the unvaccinated if you believe we'll just die off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 26, 2021, 10:53:59 AM

Again, learn how to read and comprehend, along with understanding the full context.  We discussed this in the past as well.  The fine print does not say what you say it does.


What part of "Significant risks and benefits are unknown" do you not understand? If the fact sheet said all safety tests were completed and there are no risks but minor such as rash or soreness of the arm, you'd be shoving those words in my face celebrating like you won the Super Bowl. The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to understand you can't do 7 years worth of safety tests in less than a year.

Says nothing of the sort.  From the link you posted prior (before full authorization)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YC6ghjht/Screen-Shot-2021-08-26-at-6-20-11-AM.png)



You should highlight more words. Significant risks and benefit and their extent are unknown. The extent could go all the way to death. If you go into court saying the government knew the potential significant risks and benefits, the jury and judge will laugh you out of court. But you can't get into court anyway because they removed your ability to sue them. And because the fine print is clear, you can't get around it because they didn't deceive you. You can try and argue the the tv commercials deceived you though.

You can't just pick and choose words BillyB.  You have to take the whole statement in context, starting with the section heading.  To put it into plain english:

As the vaccination provider, you must communicate to the recipient or their caregiver, information consistent with the "Vaccine Information Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers", prior to the individual receiving each dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, including the significant known and potential risks of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and the extent to which such risks and benefits are unknown.


It is that easy.  First get the fact sheet for Recipients and Caregivers, and communicate what is stated there.

Absolutely nothing states "Significant risks and benefit and their extent are unknown."

English lesson over.
The current language makes you uncomfortable so you lash out.

Neither me, nor Avhdb, nor BC have resorted to namecalling, yet you guys do. You must have run out of normal arguments.

Where have I name called anybody? Avhdb got insulting and BC called me ignoramus or some name like that. Idiots were used. But you didn't scold those people.

Absolutely nothing wrong with stating someone is ignorant.

Definition: "lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing."

As far as fixing today's cars goes, I am ignorant.

Quote
People in France bringing their own food and sitting outside bars and restaurants that require vaccination papers. You guys don't think government can deny citizens food? It can and is happening.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/31041

Where did they buy the food they brought with them?  From a store, and they wore masks.  They are not going to starve.  They can shop in any store that is under 20,000 square meters (5 acres) without a pass (wearing masks).   Plenty of open markets as well.  They can also get a test free in 15 mins or so that is good for a couple days.


Quote
Australian police taking child away from parent to force vaccination.

https://t.me/SteelTruthChannel/3167

Fake news from BillyB

(https://i.postimg.cc/RCscSsXS/Screen-Shot-2021-08-26-at-12-48-16-PM.png)


Quote
Armed French police keep people without vaccination papers from entering grocery store.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/30907

Yes, in some countries, even Italy, controls are made by police.  Most police are armed. 


Quote
New Zealand locks down entire country after one case shows up.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/30327

I reckon well within the rights of any country. 

Quote
You guys can search for more of this stuff going on around the world but seems like some of you are so focus on the believing the vaccine is the miracle cure you don't have time to see what is going on around you. Look how their using this event against you. If you vaccinated people are so well protected, you shouldn't feel a need to spend so much time convincing the unvaccinated if you believe we'll just die off.

Almost every post of mine has been in response to the bullshit you are posting.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 26, 2021, 06:36:14 PM

Absolutely nothing states "Significant risks and benefit and their extent are unknown."


You posted the photo and can't read. You may need glasses or you're in massive denial. Since you think all safety tests on the vaccines have concluded, point us where it says all benefits and risks are known. It's clear they don't know the significant risks and benefits and they don't know the extent of those risks and benefits so if one of your family members die, you should have known they didn't know the extent of the risks. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the extent of the risk could be death.

I have to admit, intelligent people know how to convince the masses to take multiple jabs of experimental vaccines every year and like it. Even Boris Johnson said vaccines don't reduce infections and deaths. Look at the summer outbreak. It's obvious. Winter is going to be much much worse. You will need to stay indoors and away from others since your compromised immune system will increase your chances of dying from ANY pathogen while the vaccine may give you slight protection from COVID.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 27, 2021, 03:41:20 AM

Absolutely nothing states "Significant risks and benefit and their extent are unknown."


You posted the photo and can't read.

I see you still have problems reading and comprehending.

You are looking at instructions to healthcare providers.  The statement you dwell on is telling the providers what to do and has nothing at all to do with the vaccine or pharmaceutical.  It simply states that providers need to advise patients as to the risks and benefits per the fact sheet for recipients and caregivers.  It is standard blurb that you are misreading and misusing.

The same statement appears on many EUA fact sheets for healthcare providers.

Remdesivir

(https://i.postimg.cc/250C9JCB/Screen-Shot-2021-08-27-at-5-25-41-AM.png)

Regeneron

(https://i.postimg.cc/NMrfyDw9/Screen-Shot-2021-08-27-at-5-24-51-AM.png)

On one hand, you use this general statement to somehow try to show folks that the vaccines are not safe, but on the other hand, you seem to applaud use of other meds with the EXACT SAME STATEMENT that were given to Trump by the 'best doctors in the world'.


As many of you already know, hydroxychloroquine pulled from emergency use and Trump stopped taking it months ago. What do some of the best doctors in the world give him? Remdesivir and regeneron which are experimental treatments but are approved for emergency use.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-covid-19-treatments-remdesivir-and-regeneron-antibody-drug-combo-2020-10

Quit spouting bullshit.  Take the time to investigate what you write instead of copying and pasting what others want you to say.  Take the time to understand the subject at hand before posting.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 27, 2021, 10:00:01 AM

More deception from BC. Remdesivir and regeneron been around for years and passed all safety trials on humans. The reason those treatments were given the emergency use authorization for COVID was to protect big pharma from getting sued as doctors were using it for an all new virus.

Vaccines have not passed all safety tests. Did you know last year the media and Democrats hammered on vaccines saying they won't be safe? They knew Biden will cheat to win and at that point they support putting experimental vaccines in our bodies.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 27, 2021, 11:26:41 AM
Oh BillyB.. after hanging on these same words for months now, you want to say you didn't say what you said?

Try this on for size:

Quote
These are not all the possible side effects of remdesivir. Remdesivir is still being studied so it is possible that all of the risks are not known at this time.
Not a lot of people have taken remdesivir. Serious and unexpected side effects may happen

Quote
No adequate and well-controlled studies of Veklury (remdesivir) use in pregnant
women have been conducted
.

Quote
Studies have not been done to see if remdesivir affects a man’s fertility.

and for Regeneron:

Quote
Warnings
There are limited clinical data available for REGEN-COV (casirivimab and imdevimab).
Serious and unexpected adverse events may occur that have not been previously reported
with REGEN-COV use.

Quote
There is limited experience treating pregnant women or breastfeeding mothers with REGEN-COV.

Quote
There are insufficient data to evaluate a drug-associated risk of major birth defects, miscarriage,
or adverse maternal or fetal outcomes.

Again, your premise and logic fall flat.

Surely, you now believe that Regeneron and Remdesivir should also not be taken or?  If you, or one of your loved ones gets sick, what will be your justification for not giving them these two meds?  The same rationalization that applies to the vaccine?  You surely agree that studies are not complete on these two meds as well or?

So you see BillyB, you have dug your hole much deeper than you can crawl out of.

You don't like the vaccine?  Great, state your opinion and move on.  But don't expect folks to simply believe the continuous stream of swill against the vaccine you spout as fact.  Don't come back with 'but this' or 'but that' as you do above.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.


The end. -unless you continue to misinform and intentionally spread your disinformation, which at this point could well be called out as outright dangerous.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 27, 2021, 01:33:22 PM

BC, Veklury/Remdesivir was created in 2009. Early development of Regeneron started in 2017. Use your imagination on how much more safety studies been conducted on those two treatments compared to vaccines that came out in a matter of months. Also, no former big pharma executive, chief science officer, founder of mRNA technology, or nobel peace prize winner has any warnings for those treatments compared to the ones they have for COVID vaccines. Those guys are very pro drugs and vaccines but they are also pro safety and have sounded the alarm on the vaccines being the one that could cause depopulation. You may lose 5-10 years off your life by regularly taking experimental vaccines but by the time your kids accuse those in charge of being criminals, those people would be too old or dead for them to get any jail time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 27, 2021, 01:43:16 PM
BillyB,

If that is your opinion, fine, I won't reply.  If you're stating this as a factual matter, I will.

Just let me know.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 29, 2021, 08:13:27 AM
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on August 30, 2021, 11:48:22 PM


A Romanian woman I talked to last weeks said she knows 3 women that lost their babies right after taking the vaccine. She also knows a doctor who was told to write on death certificates everyone had COVID. An Iraqi guy who works for me says they do the same thing in his country. Lot's of deception from the people you're wanting to trust.


239 million doses ordered for Canadians which is much more than the population. Canadians will have multiple jabs of experimental vaccines for years to come. Trudeau is going to pump you up.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/293-million-covid-vaccine-doses-ordered-for-canadians-enough-for-nearly-eight-shots-per-year-for-every-man-woman-and-child/



Hospitals can afford to fire medical personnel if they don't get vaxxed. That means we are not in a Pandemic and we don't have a medical emergency anymore.


Natural immunity 13 times more effective against anti vaccine Delta variant than vaccines.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/ends-debate-israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-13x-more-effective-vaccines-stopping

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties


Study shows 1/3rd of Americans having COVID which drops the case fatality rate to 0.3% which means COVID is a little more dangerous than the flu. Take away the inflated deaths and case fatality rate would fall further. Ask yourself with natural immunity being superior and a large amount of Americans have natural immunity, why are they pushing so hard for 100% of the population to be vaccinated especially after seeing the vaccines are failing?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03914-4


Fauci once said what the worst case scenario will be and there is evidence the worst case scenario is happening. The vaccines are making people worse. Vaxxed people still get the disease and transmit it. They become human petri dishes for anti vax variants to emerge. The vax compromises immune systems. Infections have skyrocketed this year compared to last year same time when nobody was vaccinated.

https://www.brighteon.com/93a0e297-5d74-4f7a-a9ea-7f2180760fd3


I don't follow government doctors that are controlled by politicians who are controlled by big pharma money. Many of the experts I follow last year said it was a mistake to vaccinate healthy people in a pandemic. Now they see government doctors double down with boosters, they have changed their tune to something sinister is going on. Since the 60's, they've known every attempt at making a coronavirus vaccine failed due to the numerous injured and dead animals they witnessed. They have no faith these quickly release vaccines will be any better. NONE have been rejected. What are the chances 100% of the vaccines are accepted when they couldn't create a single one in the last 60 years? The current vaccines have already killed and injured more people in a matter of months than all other vaccines in history. Long term effects aren't known but based on previous animals models in trials for coronavirus vaccines, immune systems get compromised leading to premature death. Depopulation is likely to happen with people losing 5, 10, 15 years of their life due to compromised immune systems. People may get a little protection from a Coronavirus vaccine but they will be more vulnerable to every other pathogen that enters their body.

https://www.brighteon.com/c39c458e-70f1-4bcf-9ae7-17e5e92bbd99


Everyday in America there are tv commercials that say "You may be entitled to financial compensation" referring to something the FDA approved. They've taken away our rights to sue for damages caused by the current vaccines. If you guys care about your health, get educated beyond what the government says in a commercial that the "vaccines are safe and effective". That phase does not exist in their Fact Sheets.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on October 12, 2021, 12:40:12 AM
Merck Covid-19 Pill "Strikingly Effective"

(https://greekreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Merck-pill-credit-pixabay-CC0.jpg)

The Pharma giant Merck announced on Friday that is has produced theifirst effective anti-Covid-19 pill

The German pharmaceuticals firm Merck announced on Friday that trials indicate it has produced the first effective antiviral pill to fight Covid-19.

Its drug, called molnupiravir, will be placed before the authorities for authorization after clinical trials showed that it cut the risk of hospitalization and death by 50% when taken by high-risk individuals soon after they had become infected.

This comparatively easy treatment might be just the first in a long line of antiviral pills to fight the coronavirus, since such treatments are much more easily accomplished than the antibody treatments that are currently used in the US for such patients.

Dr. Robert Shafer, an infectious disease specialist and expert on antiviral therapy from Stanford University, told the New York Times “I think it will translate into many thousands of lives being saved worldwide, where there’s less access to monoclonal antibodies, and in this country, too.”

Read the full article here: https://greekreporter.com/2021/10/01/merck-covid-19-pill/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Comecon.Chic on November 01, 2021, 04:20:08 AM


A Romanian woman I talked to last weeks said she knows 3 women that lost their babies right after taking the vaccine.

Hello Mr Billy

It is information such as you write that means Romania and my country have difficulties persuading people to be vaccinated .



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 01, 2021, 05:41:57 AM


A Romanian woman I talked to last weeks said she knows 3 women that lost their babies right after taking the vaccine.

Hello Mr Billy

It is information such as you write that means Romania and my country have difficulties persuading people to be vaccinated.

Same here. We now have the highest rate of Covid-19 infection in the world. The hospitals are now at their limit with new patients - almost all of whom are people who have not been vaccinated.

Possibly worst of all, I have started to see that families and friends are pulling apart as poorly informed people who need to trust (but do not due to disinformation and lies) because they do not have the ability to learn for themselves are refusing to protect themselves and their families. I have friends who have lost loved ones to Covid due to their refusal to be vaccinated.

I KNOW that I can still get the virus, but I also know that the likely effects, after vaccination, are mild. I find it hard to sympathise with those who, because of their refusal to protect themselves and their community, are directly threatening the health and livelihoods of people they claim to care about.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on November 08, 2021, 08:56:39 PM
Booster shots for COVID-19—the debate continues

As a minority of countries consider offering booster doses of COVID-19 vaccines to their citizens, the majority are yet to vaccinate their entire populations with a single dose.

On 1 Sept 2021, the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) issued a technical report outlining the public health case for booster doses of the COVID-19 vaccines. It concluded that fully vaccinated individuals in the general population are in no urgent need of a booster shot. The report recommended that member states instead prioritise the one-third of adults in the EU and European Economic Area who have not yet received both doses of the COVID-19 vaccine.

“Special consideration should be given to the current global shortage of COVID-19 vaccines, which could be further worsened by the administration of booster COVID-19 vaccine doses”, added the ECDC.WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has voiced similar concerns. On Aug 4, he called for a moratorium on boosters.

“We cannot accept countries that have already used most of the global supply of vaccines using even more of it, while the world’s most vulnerable people remain unprotected”, said Tedros.

At the time of his statement, people in high-income and upper-middle-income nations had received over 80% of the doses of COVID-19 vaccines administered around the world. WHO has warned that 42 states in Africa are likely to miss the target of vaccinating the most vulnerable 10% of their population by the end of September. Around 3% of Africans have been fully vaccinated, compared with 52% of Americans.

Several countries decided to ignore Tedros’ suggestion. White House Spokesperson Jen Psaki described the idea that the USA would have to decide between booster shots for its own population and donating vaccines to poorer nations as a “false choice”.

“We can do both”, she added. Joe Biden has set a goal of Sept 20 to start offering adults the option of a booster dose, although this will depend on recommendations from the US Food & Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).The CDC has already advised that individuals in immunocompromised groups receive an additional shot of the COVID-19 vaccine, although this would be more accurately defined as the final dose in the standard vaccine regimen, rather than as a booster. Since Aug 13, 1•33 million Americans have had a third shot of a COVID-19 vaccine. It is unclear how many of these people were not immunocompromised. Reports have emerged of some Americans arranging unofficial booster doses. The UK is also considering intro-ducing a third shot of the COVID-19 vaccine for adults, and France and Germany plan to provide an additional dose to vulnerable groups such as residents of long-term care facilities and elderly people. The only nation to have already rolled-out booster shots is Israel.

Daniel Weinberger is associate professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health (New Haven, CT, USA). In collaboration with KSM, the research and innovation centre of Maccabi Healthcare Services, Weinberger co-authored a study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, exploring the early evidence from the Israeli campaign. It found that the chances of an individual testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 were sharply reduced in the days following their booster jab. “Your immunity against infection wanes over time; boosters restore your level of immunity to somewhere around where it was after the second dose”, explained Weinberger. “But we still do not know how much immunity wanes for severe infection; if it is not waning to the same extent, then it is not clear that a booster would be warranted for the general population.”

The ECDC report stressed that the major purpose of the mass vaccination campaigns against COVID-19 is to reduce severe disease. But pinpointing the relationship between severe disease and the antibody response induced by the vaccine is not straightforward.

“We do not know how long the protective antibodies last from the second dose of the COVID-19 vaccine”, said Martin Hibberd, professor of emerging infectious diseases at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (London, UK). “We know that the total amount of antibodies drops relatively quickly after the second dose, and often there is a relationship between that and your overall level of protection, but the specific neutralising antibodies that inhibit the virus, and account for the protective effect of the vaccine, are very difficult to measure.

”Matters are further complicated by the shifting nature of SARS-CoV-2. The vaccines currently in use are based on the original virus. They remain highly effective in preventing hospitalisation and death from the far more transmissible delta variant (also known as B.1.617.2) but are less effective in preventing infection. It is virtually impossible to unpick the extent to which infections among fully vaccinated individuals are down to waning immunity from the vaccine, the surge in the delta variant, or reduced adherence to physical-distancing measures.

Hibberd advocates booster shots that target the delta variant. “The only way to confirm the duration of the protective antibodies would be to wait until more and more vaccinated people are getting sick”, he said. “If we start giving boosters to people before their immunity has faded, we can get ahead of the virus, for once.” He pointed out that the mRNA vaccines that will be used for any prospective booster campaign in the USA are not ideally suited for low-income settings anyway, given that they have to be maintained at temperatures far below freezing. “We should be making more vaccines, and giving away the vaccines that we have bought but cannot use”, he told The Lancet Infectious Diseases. Indeed, a new report from Airfinity, a science information and analytics company, has concluded that global vaccine production will soon reach a level sufficient to cover every adult on the planet. It noted that even if the USA, the UK, the EU, Canada, and Japan vaccinate their entire population older than 12 years and offer booster doses, there would still be a potential surplus of 1•2 billion doses of COVID-19 vaccines by the end of the year. 1•5 billion doses are already being produced every month, and this number is expected to grow. Nonetheless, as things stand, vaccines are not reaching the people most in need. The COVAX facility, a joint endeavour between WHO, Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, which aims to ensure equitable global access to the COVID-19 vaccines, has been beset by supply problems. “Instead of planning third doses for people in high-income settings, we should be focusing our attention on the millions of people around the world who are still awaiting their first dose”, said Olivier Wouters, assistant professor of health policy at the London School of Economics and Political Science (London, UK). He added that the potential benefits of booster doses are uncertain, whereas leaving vast swathes of the world’s population unvaccinated is sure to lead to more infections, deaths, and troublesome variants.

Moreover, there is no guarantee that any immunity conferred by a booster dose will last longer than that offered by the previous doses. The chief executive officers of both Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson have raised the possibility of annual COVID-19 vaccination. Such talk dismays Wouters.

“If we get into a mindset where we are thinking about booster doses for richer countries every year, when so many poorer countries have not even covered health-care workers, we really will have failed to meet our obligations to the rest of the world.

Talha Burki reports. www.thelancet.com/infection  Vol 21 October 2021
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on November 14, 2021, 09:23:23 AM
I'm in no rush to take any so-called booster.

I had the two jabs and then caught Covid. The two jabs didn't prevent it (perhaps they lessened it - we'll never know). I'm more inclined to rely on my post-infection immunity now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 14, 2021, 10:38:08 AM
I'm in no rush to take any so-called booster.

I had the two jabs and then caught Covid. The two jabs didn't prevent it (perhaps they lessened it - we'll never know). I'm more inclined to rely on my post-infection immunity now.

Yes, I find the messaging about boosters somewhat confused.
There are some things that are clear:
1) The effectiveness of immunity from vaccines wanes over time.
2) The waning effect is somewhat faster than had been hoped for, but the effect was expected.
3) The effect of waning immunity still seems to be in terms of infection, but the severity of those infections seems to be lower than in people who have not been vaccinated or previously infected.

Less clear is the overall 'benefit of having had a Covid infection. From what I have read, it seems that an infection should give better long-term protection against infection than jabs alone. That's because the jabs only identify and protect against a small part of the virus. Natural infection sets up the body to identify and protect against all attributes f the current viruses and so give protection against new forms because all future forms of the Covid-19 virus will share some attributes with previous forms.
That's kind of like how a key and lock work. A normal key can open only one, or at most, a small range of locks. Whereas a passkey can open all the locks of a particular type. For example all bedrooms in a hotel. Infection gives a passkey, vaccination provides a guest key to one's own room.

In the UK, at least, the policy seems to be an acceptance that we will all get infected at some point. That seems sensible and rational.

Right now, it seems to me that boosters have the greatest benefit for those who have impaired immune responses or for whom an infection would be most harmful. Often those two groups overlap quite considerably.

I have no worries about getting a 48 hour cold. After all, a normal cold lasts much longer and I do not usually allow a cold to impede my normal life. I am also aware that there is a very small chance of me getting a severe response to the inevitable infection. On a persoanl level, I can live with that, but if convenient, I have n problem with using a booster, in the same way as I might have a flu vaccination.

The problem from a public health perspective is that with 64,000,000 people in the UK, even given the facts above, what used to be called breakthrough infections are still going to cause enough serous cases of Covid that the health system will be severely strained.

So, there are two levels on which to look at boosters on a persoanl level.
1) Do I take a booster to protect myself?
2) Do I take a booster to protect the general population?

In my opinion, the argument is stronger for point 2. I have never bothered with a flu jab - but as I get older I do give the idea greater consideration. As a member of society, I think I bear some responsibility to those around me. To that end, I expect to have a booster jab and maybe more than one over time. Not for my own protection but because only by reducing my opportinity to infect others can I support society as a whole. Of course, by acting for the general good, I am also protecting myself.

I can envisage a time coming, in the not too distant future when having a booster wil become a requirement for travel, in much the same way as the current situation is. At that point, I will have a booster, if for no other reason than convenience.

IMHO, in the context of the UK and its public policy, I would not do much to persaude anyone to get a booster, whereas I am much more strident on the idea of getting the first two jabs (or one in the case of the Johnson & Johnson jab).




Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on November 15, 2021, 09:08:54 PM
A Romanian woman I talked to last weeks said she knows 3 women that lost their babies right after taking the vaccine.
I met a woman on the bus who says she met someone whose friend told her that her neighbour's cousin works with a guy who said  .....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 16, 2021, 02:42:31 AM
A Romanian woman I talked to last weeks said she knows 3 women that lost their babies right after taking the vaccine.
I met a woman on the bus who says she met someone whose friend told her that her neighbour's cousin works with a guy who said  .....

 :laugh:

Unfortunately BillyB has evaporated from the forum. While he brought up interesting points he was often in the far removed from reality conspiracy spectrum.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 16, 2021, 03:07:10 AM
I hope that he didn't fall over with Covid. It seems to be something of a meme at the moment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 16, 2021, 04:16:26 AM
I hope that he didn't fall over with Covid. It seems to be something of a meme at the moment.

He seemed to be an anti-vaxxer, the governments out to get us type.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 18, 2021, 03:59:14 PM
https://twitter.com/OptimisticCon/status/1443757608456712200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1443757608456712200%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.beyond-the-fringe.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ftid%3D39pid%3D518728

UK Study finds that most who have died of the Delta variant were fully vaccinated. Oops.

https://libertyunyielding.com/2021/09/30/uk-study-finds-most-who-died-of-delta-variant-were-fully-vaccinated/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 18, 2021, 04:27:52 PM
I read the report.

That's not actually a big surprise.
Here's why.
1) we know that delta variant can break through vaccination.
2) At this time the majority of British adults have been vaccinated.
3) The virus is most likely to kill the aged or those with comorbidities.
4) The people who have not been vaccinated are in general those least likley to have a bad outcome from infection.

As we can see, the number of deaths relative to infections is much, much smaller than if those people had not been vaccinated. If the vaccination program were not working we would be seeing hundreds or thousands of deaths each day, as we saw before the vaccination program began.

So, no surprises. The absolute number of deaths is now relatively low.
Due to the proportion of people vaccinated and the age and health profile of dead the deaths will tend to be among people vaccinated.

Maff is tough.

If you're unsure, then go look at the number of deaths at this time compared to the number of deaths at similar numbers of infections before vaccination started.

If one wanted to do so, given what we know already, one could estimate the numbers of deaths to be expected in the current situation. The headline number does not seem to be far from what one would expect given that we know the vaccinea do not completely stop infections, serious illness or death. What they do is hugely reduce all three, particularly the last two.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 19, 2021, 12:56:58 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/eric-clapton-accuses-rolling-stone-of-running-a-slur-campaign-against-him/ar-AAQUo36?li=BBnbfcL
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 20, 2021, 05:28:35 PM
The fed gov’t shields Pfizer from liability. Gives it billions of dollars. Makes Americans take its product. But won’t let you see the data supporting its safety/efficacy. Who does the gov't work for?

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/fda-asks-federal-judge-to-grant-it


and:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on November 20, 2021, 08:59:29 PM
Who does the gov't work for?
The Military-Industrial Complex, ie. itself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 21, 2021, 12:58:18 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/disney-world-halts-vaccine-requirement-135015769.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 21, 2021, 11:51:35 PM
CV19 bounty on your life.

https://fort-russ.com/2021/11/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
CV19 bounty on your life.

https://fort-russ.com/2021/11/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/

No it isn't, it is payment from the government so that people with covid-19 needing treatment can receive the care they need.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 22, 2021, 06:44:17 AM


No it isn't, it is payment from the government so that people with covid-19 needing treatment can receive the care they need.

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. There is no connection of government payments to the hospitals for strictly adhering to the government covid treatment protocols and future treatment of those infected. It is a payoff, plain and simply for doing what they are told. Those payments go directly to the profit coffers of the hospitals and the corporations that own them. Those protocols are killing people. The hospital is the last place one should go if they are infected with covid. Clue; it is where people are dying of covid. You FiFi are a born follower. Take your jabs and continue to be the purveyor of the bad information fed to you
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2021, 06:54:23 AM
Faux pas, how on earth did you come up with such an appropriate handle? I'd say it was a work of genius, except that, it quite clearly can't be. Did someone help you?

How do you think that people are getting their treatment? Forget your ill-informed opinions about the disease, that's not relevant - especially not to those who need the treatment provided by the U.S health system.

Here's a clue for you: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/estimated-cost-of-treating-the-uninsured-hospitalized-with-covid-19/ It is a bit old, but it gives the gist and, I am sure that there is more recent information about the payment processes in place for the U.S covid-19 treatment response.

How can one be so poorly informed when this has been going on for almost two years? You're something of a champion. If Billykins were here, you and he would be in a two-dog race, but right now, you're the clear winner!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 22, 2021, 07:25:10 AM
https://twitter.com/OptimisticCon/status/1443757608456712200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1443757608456712200%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.beyond-the-fringe.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ftid%3D39pid%3D518728

UK Study finds that most who have died of the Delta variant were fully vaccinated. Oops.

https://libertyunyielding.com/2021/09/30/uk-study-finds-most-who-died-of-delta-variant-were-fully-vaccinated/

We vaccinated the oldest and most ill first. The reports a bit thin on detail but could it be that those who were at the end of their natural life, and double jabbed, happened to test positive for the delta variant within 28 days of snuffing it?

Some people (and not you I may add) seem to think that we're expected to enjoy eternal life these days.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 22, 2021, 07:54:26 AM
I'll assume that you bring up my moniker and Billyb as an ill attempt at deflection. Perhaps it is a hope that some of your fellow banner wavers of the ignorant and unable to think for themselves will also defend you in spreading your woke fake news.

It's not a disease FiFi, it is a virus. For most infected nothing more than a bad cold and at worse a bad flu. Yet those that do not have our best interest at heart will try to convince us that it is imperative to take a jab that effects not only their health but their immune system and most likely for life. The ignorant do not question why they do this. They accept without question in "the name of science". Still, the ignorant do not question why the science has changed for this virus.

Set that aside for a moment and realize people are getting ill from the jab, continue to spread the virus and at worse dying from it's effects. This from a supposed "vaccine". Accept the fact FiFi that the jab is not a vaccine. Accept the fact that the mortality rate is not as bad as the seasonal flu. Accept the fact that in order for a plandemic to seep into the psyche of the sheep, instill fear there  must be deaths.

I understand you've been a sheltered Mummy's boy for most of your life and never had a need to think for yourself. You've always been told how and what to think. It really permeates in your 10's of thousands of posts on this forum. It's not your fault that you are ignorant and unable to discern truth in times like these. It is your fault however that you accept a complicated lie as the truth when the truth is actually much simpler and the actual answer
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2021, 08:25:50 AM
I mention your handle because I found it humorous. The correlation between your self-chosen handle and your ability to get things wrong, to make a faux pas so often.

Hmm, do you know what a disease is? Clearly not.

How can you hope to take part in grown-up conversations when you do not even understand the absolute basics of the subject. I'll give you credit for being a trier though!

The Mayo Clinic can help you out, and it is quicker than me typing similar words:
Quote
Infectious diseases are disorders caused by organisms — such as bacteria, viruses, fungi or parasites. Many organisms live in and on our bodies. They're normally harmless or even helpful. But under certain conditions, some organisms may cause disease. Some infectious diseases can be passed from person to person.

In this context, COVID-19 is a disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

Go get yourself jabbed, you ain't in a position to be able to make an informed decision.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 22, 2021, 08:30:59 AM
I mention your handle because I found it humorous. The correlation between your self-chosen handle and your ability to get things wrong, to make a faux pas so often.

Hmm, do you know what a disease is? Clearly not.

How can you hope to take part in grown-up conversations when you do not even understand the absolute basics of the subject. I'll give you credit for being a trier though!

The Mayo Clinic can help you out, and it is quicker than me typing similar words:
Quote
Infectious diseases are disorders caused by organisms — such as bacteria, viruses, fungi or parasites. Many organisms live in and on our bodies. They're normally harmless or even helpful. But under certain conditions, some organisms may cause disease. Some infectious diseases can be passed from person to person.

In this context, COVID-19 is a disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

Go get yourself jabbed, you ain't in a position to be able to make an informed decision.

Did you run that by mumsie or did you come up with that all on your own? You wouldn't know an informed decision if it bit you on your ass
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 22, 2021, 08:34:15 AM

We vaccinated the oldest and most ill first. The reports a bit thin on detail but could it be that those who were at the end of their natural life, and double jabbed, happened to test positive for the delta variant within 28 days of snuffing it?

1) we know that delta variant can break through vaccination.
2) At this time the majority of British adults have been vaccinated.
3) The virus is most likely to kill the aged or those with comorbidities.
4) The people who have not been vaccinated are in general those least likely to have a bad outcome from infection.

In essence, once most of the population has been vaccinated then, logically, it will follow that the majority of infections will be due to breakthrough infections.

The age/risk pyramid is a factor, but the effect would be similar in trend, if not numbers, even if the young and least likely to be affected had been vaccinated first.

---

Faux Pas, stop digging, you're in deep enough.
Really, get vaccinated. You are not smart enough to make these choices for yourself. It might save your life.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 22, 2021, 09:54:45 AM
CV19 bounty on your life.

https://fort-russ.com/2021/11/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/

No it isn't, it is payment from the government so that people with covid-19 needing treatment can receive the care they need.

Yes it is. Hospitals get a very large fee to ventilate someone, whether they actually need it or not. And too much oxygen can and does kill people. IOW the hospital will get paid no matter if they "accidentally" kill someone. Notice the extra bonus payment for giving the very expensive Remdisivir instead of the very affordable Ivermectin.

A “free” required PCR test in the Emergency Room or upon admission for every patient, with government-paid fee to hospital.
Added bonus payment for each positive COVID-19 diagnosis.
Another bonus for a COVID-19 admission to the hospital.
A 20 percent “boost” bonus payment from Medicare on the entire hospital bill for use of remdesivir instead of medicines such as Ivermectin.
Another and larger bonus payment to the hospital if a COVID-19 patient is mechanically ventilated
.
More money to the hospital if cause of death is listed as COVID-19, even if patient did not die directly of COVID-19.
A COVID-19 diagnosis also provides extra payments to coroners.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 22, 2021, 10:03:28 AM
https://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/cdc-admits-finacial-hospital-incentives-drove-up-covid-19-death-rates

and

https://www.christianpost.com/news/cdc-director-agrees-that-hospitals-have-monetary-incentive-to-inflate-covid-19-data.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 22, 2021, 10:07:43 AM
Set that aside for a moment and realize people are getting ill from the jab, continue to spread the virus and at worse dying from it's effects. This from a supposed "vaccine". Accept the fact FiFi that the jab is not a vaccine. Accept the fact that the mortality rate is not as bad as the seasonal flu. Accept the fact that in order for a plandemic to seep into the psyche of the sheep, instill fear there  must be deaths.

I'm sceptical by nature and I'm always looking for 'the angle', of which a narrative could be formed quite easily over the last 18 months.

UK Covid deaths, as they are flippantly referred to over here, whereby someone dies within 28 days of a positive covid test, does my head in. It's been well documented that the average age has generally been above the average life expectancy. Its been proven that half of all of those who have died in hospital, contracted the virus whilst in hospital and let's be honest, the person who's life is ending due to a long terminal illness or having played BB with a bus and lost, hasn't really died from covid but officially they do. The stats in my book are inflated and you need to ask....why?

That said.....mortality rates/excess deaths are ok over here at the moment but if it wasn't for the vaccine, where would we really be? I know plenty folks my parents age, some of them quite vulnerable and yet they've survived Covid. The question is, would they have survived it pre multi jab?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 22, 2021, 10:13:04 AM
Set that aside for a moment and realize people are getting ill from the jab, continue to spread the virus and at worse dying from it's effects. This from a supposed "vaccine". Accept the fact FiFi that the jab is not a vaccine. Accept the fact that the mortality rate is not as bad as the seasonal flu. Accept the fact that in order for a plandemic to seep into the psyche of the sheep, instill fear there  must be deaths.

I'm sceptical by nature and I'm always looking for 'the angle', of which a narrative could be formed quite easily over the last 18 months.

UK Covid deaths, as they are flippantly referred to over here, whereby someone dies within 28 days of a positive covid test, does my head in. It's been well documented that the average age has generally been above the average life expectancy. Its been proven that half of all of those who have died in hospital, contracted the virus whilst in hospital and let's be honest, the person who's life is ending due to a long terminal illness or having played BB with a bus and lost, hasn't really died from covid but officially they do. The stats in my book are inflated and you need to ask....why?

That said.....mortality rates/excess deaths are ok over here at the moment but if it wasn't for the vaccine, where would we really be? I know plenty folks my parents age, some of them quite vulnerable and yet they've survived Covid. The question is, would they have survived it pre multi jab?

IF Covid deaths had not been politicized, we could have a calmer more reasoned discussion about this. Also IF they had taken longer to develop the vaccines.

I don't really know the answer to the question at the end of your post. I happen to believe natural immunity is best for someone younger than 60 years old. And I'm not sold on the vaccines even for older folk. We are supposed to have free will, yet government and some of the totalitarian types not in government don't want this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 22, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
Yes it is. Hospitals get a very large fee to ventilate someone, whether they actually need it or not. And too much oxygen can and does kill people.

That's more of a US problem is it not, with your private health care? We wouldn't be doing that in the UK without good cause.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 22, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Totalitarian Australia to transfer people to quarantine camps.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/australian-army-begins-transferring-covid-positive-cases-contacts-quarantine-camps
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 22, 2021, 10:40:39 AM
IF Covid deaths had not been politicized, we could have a calmer more reasoned discussion about this. Also IF they had taken longer to develop the vaccines.

Totally agree.

Here in the UK, politicians parked their hand bags for about month before using the pandemic to slag off their political rivals. In Scotland, our first minister spoke really well compared to Boris and everyone said she handled it better. Soon after, she just acted like a petty cow and did what Boris did but 2 weeks later.....with the hope that she looked better for it.

The left accuse our conservative government of murdering hundreds of thousands, all whilst hiding their own care home scandals and conference cover ups.

SAF.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 22, 2021, 04:34:16 PM
I'm sceptical by nature and I'm always looking for 'the angle', of which a narrative could be formed quite easily over the last 18 months.

You should be. In fact everyone should be very skeptical of everything to do with covid. Since the beginning of covid it has never been about health. It has been all about control and a massive shifting of wealth. That has been both the angle and the narrative. The "science" that keeps being referred to ad nauseum has been high jacked and weaponized. That isn't to say covid isn't real, it's very real no doubt. It is being used as a ruse for world control, shuttering the economy and domination.

Quote
UK Covid deaths, as they are flippantly referred to over here, whereby someone dies within 28 days of a positive covid test, does my head in. It's been well documented that the average age has generally been above the average life expectancy. Its been proven that half of all of those who have died in hospital, contracted the virus whilst in hospital and let's be honest, the person who's life is ending due to a long terminal illness or having played BB with a bus and lost, hasn't really died from covid but officially they do. The stats in my book are inflated and you need to ask....why?

At the beginning of the spread of covid it was mostly the elderly dying of covid. The problem was and they knew it beforehand, they were not dying fast enough thus, it was imperative that all age groups need to be dying from the "new" deadly virus. During the first 12 months and even today there were/is a lot of gunshot, stabbing and car crash victims dying of covid. The PCR tests in most cases were at best putting out 60% false positives and many places at worse 90%. The entire foundation of covid is a lie perpetrated on humanity. The virus is real but nobody it seems in the spotlight, the media or world government leaders are asking the pertinent questions about covid, why? They have completely succumbed to Big Pharma again, why?

Quote
That said.....mortality rates/excess deaths are ok over here at the moment but if it wasn't for the vaccine, where would we really be? I know plenty folks my parents age, some of them quite vulnerable and yet they've survived Covid. The question is, would they have survived it pre multi jab?

The direct answer to your last question there, is yes. If they would have survived the seasonal flu, chances are quite high they would survive covid as well. Not only that, their bodies would have developed covid anti-bodies. It would appear that the jab doesn't do that. The human body is a marvelous thing when allow to work as designed. Did you ever question why the big rush to develop the jab and the bigger rush to get it inside everyone on earth? For a man made virus no worse than the seasonal flu? There is a lot of other questions that need to be asked and answered about covid and the worldwide panic and "treatment" over it yet, nobody asks those questions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 22, 2021, 04:57:16 PM

1) we know that delta variant can break through vaccination.

Then the jab is not a vaccination. You FiFi are a parrot and have totally lost yourself in the junk science

Quote
2) At this time the majority of British adults have been vaccinated.

And left with the inability for their bodies to fight covid viruses

Quote
3) The virus is most likely to kill the aged or those with comorbidities.

Funny that, just like the seasonal flu viruses eh?

Quote
4) The people who have not been vaccinated are in general those least likely to have a bad outcome from infection.

Well look at that, you can state it. The likely reason for this Fifi is that they have given their bodies a chance to do, what it does.

Quote
In essence, once most of the population has been vaccinated then, logically, it will follow that the majority of infections will be due to breakthrough infections.

The age/risk pyramid is a factor, but the effect would be similar in trend, if not numbers, even if the young and least likely to be affected had been vaccinated first.


More of your junk science. There is nothing logical about that statement. Pretty much that is saying let's pour gasoline on everyone and pass around matches


---

Quote
Faux Pas, stop digging, you're in deep enough.
Really, get vaccinated. You are not smart enough to make these choices for yourself. It might save your life.

No FiFi, it is you that is up to your neck in shit and apparently the only thing above the neck is just more shit. They are lying to you. Once you grasp this one inevitable fact may you start digging yourself out
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 23, 2021, 01:51:09 AM

1) we know that delta variant can break through vaccination.

Then the jab is not a vaccination. You FiFi are a parrot and have totally lost yourself in the junk science
Funny that, to me it seems like the vaccination is exactly that!
Quote
2) At this time the majority of British adults have been vaccinated.

And left with the inability for their bodies to fight covid viruses
That makes no sense at all. Its like : You have now successfully learned the english language so you must no longer be able to speak Dutch.
Your body can do both, remember the virus with the vaccine or develop its own methods of fighting it when the vaccine proves ineffective.
Thats in fact what happened to me personally and I got very ill from Covid for a week or so.
Quote
3) The virus is most likely to kill the aged or those with comorbidities.

Funny that, just like the seasonal flu viruses eh?
Except the flu doesn't have you gasping for air as it attacks your lungs, your very ability to draw oxygen from the air and thus you know: live.
And once you recover, its a big question if your lung capacity will ever recover enough to have you fully restored.
I was lucky, that took only 3 weeks for me, but cases of 6+ months (lung covid) have already surfaced.

More of your junk science. There is nothing logical about that statement. Pretty much that is saying let's pour gasoline on everyone and pass around matches
I suggest you read more up on medicine before making such a laughable statement.

Quote
Faux Pas, stop digging, you're in deep enough.
Really, get vaccinated. You are not smart enough to make these choices for yourself. It might save your life.

No FiFi, it is you that is up to your neck in shit and apparently the only thing above the neck is just more shit. They are lying to you. Once you grasp this one inevitable fact may you start digging yourself out
I think Andrew is right in this case, and attacking the person does not make your arguments any better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 23, 2021, 03:40:14 AM
You should be. In fact everyone should be very skeptical of everything to do with covid. Since the beginning of covid it has never been about health. It has been all about control and a massive shifting of wealth. That has been both the angle and the narrative. The "science" that keeps being referred to ad nauseum has been high jacked and weaponized. That isn't to say covid isn't real, it's very real no doubt. It is being used as a ruse for world control, shuttering the economy and domination.

OK let's assume this to be true, the 'plandemic' would be the greatest heist ever known to man. 

I find it very hard to believe that every government and health organisation in the world, got the memo and decided to play it out in unison. No whistle blowers, no objection and a collective never seen before with global powers. If it's a western plot then I wouldn't expect to see our old friend Putin playing along. He'd love to expose the b@stards and stuff it up them. Then there's the rest of the world.....

Are some governments using and politizing the covid plight? Undoubtedly. I already mentioned that the Scottish separatist government have been banging the Westminster incompetence drum non stop, in an attempt to manipulate peoples emotions and get the sheep to vote, in the way they want them to. They've also made us wear 'face covers' since the beginning, when in fact most peoples 'face covers' don't do what a face mask would.....which I see as utterly pointless. If you're going to make people cover their faces for the sake of our health, they should supply the population with medical grade face masks to be worn as mandatory. As it stands, they just want to virtue signal and be different from England.

We've also been told to register for vaccination passports so we can attend football matches and music festivals etc.......yes this is control and its about forcing those who don't want vaccinated, to get the jabs. What you're alluding to is another level altogether!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on November 23, 2021, 06:30:47 AM
You should be. In fact everyone should be very skeptical of everything to do with covid. Since the beginning of covid it has never been about health. It has been all about control and a massive shifting of wealth. That has been both the angle and the narrative. The "science" that keeps being referred to ad nauseum has been high jacked and weaponized. That isn't to say covid isn't real, it's very real no doubt. It is being used as a ruse for world control, shuttering the economy and domination.

OK let's assume this to be true, the 'plandemic' would be the greatest heist ever known to man. 

I find it very hard to believe that every government and health organisation in the world, got the memo and decided to play it out in unison. No whistle blowers, no objection and a collective never seen before with global powers. If it's a western plot then I wouldn't expect to see our old friend Putin playing along. He'd love to expose the b@stards and stuff it up them. Then there's the rest of the world.....

Are some governments using and politizing the covid plight? Undoubtedly. I already mentioned that the Scottish separatist government have been banging the Westminster incompetence drum non stop, in an attempt to manipulate peoples emotions and get the sheep to vote, in the way they want them to. They've also made us wear 'face covers' since the beginning, when in fact most peoples 'face covers' don't do what a face mask would.....which I see as utterly pointless. If you're going to make people cover their faces for the sake of our health, they should supply the population with medical grade face masks to be worn as mandatory. As it stands, they just want to virtue signal and be different from England.

We've also been told to register for vaccination passports so we can attend football matches and music festivals etc.......yes this is control and its about forcing those who don't want vaccinated, to get the jabs. What you're alluding to is another level altogether!
Well put Rosco.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 23, 2021, 07:01:27 AM

OK let's assume this to be true, the 'plandemic' would be the greatest heist ever known to man. 

I find it very hard to believe that every government and health organisation in the world, got the memo and decided to play it out in unison. No whistle blowers, no objection and a collective never seen before with global powers. If it's a western plot then I wouldn't expect to see our old friend Putin playing along. He'd love to expose the b@stards and stuff it up them. Then there's the rest of the world.....


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

When it comes to health organizations there is not that many that has a complete grip on the entire world. The foremost one being The World Health Organization . The others that work under that umbrella is NIH, CDC , various smaller ones in Europe and the FDA. Most all health organizations are funded wholly or partially through the WHO and by Big Pharma. Who controls the WHO? The United Nations. Who controls the UN? Do you believe it's members do? That's perhaps a trip down the rabbit hole you need to make.

When you think about it they didn't even need for the virus to be real to accomplish world control as they have although they did develop and usher it in as a catalyst. Why the mystery as to where the virus came from? Certainly in this day in age of medical science at least that could be determined?  It has been but that information isn't politicized. Why? Because it is a developed and engineered corona virus in a lab in Wuhan and released on the world to be a quick spreading virus and help achieve exactly what it has done to date. It is better than bullets I suppose because some of us might be firing back. Despite the narrative they've been pushing, it's didn't come from a bat cave or wet market in some far flung Chinese province. It is a lab engineered weaponized virus released on mankind. Where is the outrage?

All of the world and government leaders are but tiny minnows in a very big pond and nothing more than the face of which we all receive our orders from. These are a well paid portion of the "elites". The followers such as FiFi are doing nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic pushing for more jabs and world vaccination from a jab that is nothing more than a drug confusing the recipients immune systems into developing more variants. It is the vaccinated killing the vaccinated and even some of the unvaccinated with a fluid that is not a vaccine at all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 23, 2021, 07:54:35 AM

I think Andrew is right in this case, and attacking the person does not make your arguments any better.

I haven't attacked FiFi. In fact I have done nothing but refute his parroted junk science. If you wish to have a productive dialogue about the subject at hand, I welcome it. If you wish to engage in a circle jerk with FiFi, help yourself. But you can't have both
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 23, 2021, 09:02:27 AM
You should be. In fact everyone should be very skeptical of everything to do with covid. Since the beginning of covid it has never been about health. It has been all about control and a massive shifting of wealth. That has been both the angle and the narrative. The "science" that keeps being referred to ad nauseum has been high jacked and weaponized. That isn't to say covid isn't real, it's very real no doubt. It is being used as a ruse for world control, shuttering the economy and domination.

OK let's assume this to be true, the 'plandemic' would be the greatest heist ever known to man. 

I find it very hard to believe that every government and health organisation in the world, got the memo and decided to play it out in unison. No whistle blowers, no objection and a collective never seen before with global powers. If it's a western plot then I wouldn't expect to see our old friend Putin playing along. He'd love to expose the b@stards and stuff it up them. Then there's the rest of the world.....

Are some governments using and politizing the covid plight? Undoubtedly. I already mentioned that the Scottish separatist government have been banging the Westminster incompetence drum non stop, in an attempt to manipulate peoples emotions and get the sheep to vote, in the way they want them to. They've also made us wear 'face covers' since the beginning, when in fact most peoples 'face covers' don't do what a face mask would.....which I see as utterly pointless. If you're going to make people cover their faces for the sake of our health, they should supply the population with medical grade face masks to be worn as mandatory. As it stands, they just want to virtue signal and be different from England.

We've also been told to register for vaccination passports so we can attend football matches and music festivals etc.......yes this is control and its about forcing those who don't want vaccinated, to get the jabs. What you're alluding to is another level altogether!

IIRC India is in fact suing The WHO for not allowing them to initially use Ivermectin. So yes in the Western "developed" world at least there has been lock step conformity. But not in India.


https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indian-bar-association-sues-who-scientist-over-ivermectin/article_f90599f8-c7be-11eb-a8dc-0b3cbb3b4dfa.html


https://www.citizensjournal.us/same-ivermectin-that-us-government-doesnt-want-americans-to-receive-is-saving-lives-across-india/

Quote

"As of now, there has still not been a proper case study using an actual population like this to demonstrate the power of ivermectin to put an end to the plandemic.

This is unfortunate because we could have been long done with this nonsense ages ago, were it not for the corrupt political influence that is keeping ivermectin out of the hands of the people, particularly in the West.

There would be no need for panic, masks, “vaccines,” or any other mindless hysteria if the “authorities” would just give up their crusade against ivermectin and let people try it. Many deaths and hospitalization could be prevented this way.

Tony Fauci and his cronies continue to try to strongarm India into accepting snake oil “remedies” like remdesivir and Donald “father of the vaccine” Trump’s “Operation Warp Speed” injections, but the country, or at least parts of it, have been resisting rather formidably."


https://jermwarfare.com/blog/dissolving-illusions

Quote

"Using myth-shattering graphs, this book shows that vaccines, antibiotics, and other medical interventions are not responsible for the increase in lifespan and the decline in mortality from infectious diseases. If the medical profession could systematically misinterpret and ignore key historical information, the question must be asked, “What else is ignored and misinterpreted today?”Perhaps the best reason to know our history is so that the worst parts are never repeated."
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 23, 2021, 09:26:39 AM
Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History Paperback – July 27, 2013

https://www.amazon.com/Dissolving-Illusions-Disease-Vaccines-Forgotten/dp/1480216895
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 23, 2021, 09:48:26 AM

I think Andrew is right in this case, and attacking the person does not make your arguments any better.

I haven't attacked FiFi. In fact I have done nothing but refute his parroted junk science. If you wish to have a productive dialogue about the subject at hand, I welcome it. If you wish to engage in a circle jerk with FiFi, help yourself. But you can't have both

And yet, here you are. Denying first attacking Andrew which you most definately did. My english is good enough thank you. And then now attacking me myself for calling you out on it. Not productive and definately not wanting to engage like that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 23, 2021, 11:06:03 AM

And yet, here you are. Denying first attacking Andrew which you most definately did. My english is good enough thank you. And then now attacking me myself for calling you out on it. Not productive and definately not wanting to engage like that.

Reminding FiFi that he is up to his neck in shit is a metaphor and not an attack. That is based on his post that I referenced. At least not what an attack from me would be comprised of. It's obvious you do not have the mental capacity for honest open dialogue. So, on this we can agree, carry on with your circle jerk
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on November 23, 2021, 11:54:54 AM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 23, 2021, 01:14:27 PM

1) we know that delta variant can break through vaccination.

Then the jab is not a vaccination. You FiFi are a parrot and have totally lost yourself in the junk science
Funny that, to me it seems like the vaccination is exactly that!
Quote
2) At this time the majority of British adults have been vaccinated.

And left with the inability for their bodies to fight covid viruses
That makes no sense at all. Its like : You have now successfully learned the english language so you must no longer be able to speak Dutch.
Your body can do both, remember the virus with the vaccine or develop its own methods of fighting it when the vaccine proves ineffective.
Thats in fact what happened to me personally and I got very ill from Covid for a week or so.
Quote
3) The virus is most likely to kill the aged or those with comorbidities.

Funny that, just like the seasonal flu viruses eh?
Except the flu doesn't have you gasping for air as it attacks your lungs, your very ability to draw oxygen from the air and thus you know: live.
And once you recover, its a big question if your lung capacity will ever recover enough to have you fully restored.
I was lucky, that took only 3 weeks for me, but cases of 6+ months (lung covid) have already surfaced.

More of your junk science. There is nothing logical about that statement. Pretty much that is saying let's pour gasoline on everyone and pass around matches
I suggest you read more up on medicine before making such a laughable statement.

Quote
Faux Pas, stop digging, you're in deep enough.
Really, get vaccinated. You are not smart enough to make these choices for yourself. It might save your life.

No FiFi, it is you that is up to your neck in shit and apparently the only thing above the neck is just more shit. They are lying to you. Once you grasp this one inevitable fact may you start digging yourself out
I think Andrew is right in this case, and attacking the person does not make your arguments any better.

Glad you made it through this, Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 23, 2021, 01:17:16 PM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:


More like conspiracy fact. Do you really believe immoral wars would happen without the blatant yellow journalism paid for by the evil bankers who finance both sides of every war for profit?

The vast majority of human beings prefer to get along and not get into wars. I don't believe they would ever happen without the enormous amount of yellow journalism which happens each and every time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 23, 2021, 01:56:48 PM

And yet, here you are. Denying first attacking Andrew which you most definately did. My english is good enough thank you. And then now attacking me myself for calling you out on it. Not productive and definately not wanting to engage like that.

Reminding FiFi that he is up to his neck in shit is a metaphor and not an attack. That is based on his post that I referenced. At least not what an attack from me would be comprised of. It's obvious you do not have the mental capacity for honest open dialogue. So, on this we can agree, carry on with your circle jerk
So Let me remind you of your words:
No FiFi, it is you that is up to your neck in shit and apparently the only thing above the neck is just more shit. They are lying to you. Once you grasp this one inevitable fact may you start digging yourself out

Now I guess my cranial capacity is lacking because I read in this sentance: You just called andrew shit-for-brains. To me that is attacking the person.

Game-set-match. And trying to insult me again: again: Game-Set-Match.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 23, 2021, 02:02:05 PM

Glad you made it through this, Mark.

Yeah thanks, I am just glad I made it without being hospitalised. I also think thats because I had the jab (Pfizer)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 23, 2021, 02:03:00 PM

And yet, here you are. Denying first attacking Andrew which you most definately did. My english is good enough thank you. And then now attacking me myself for calling you out on it. Not productive and definately not wanting to engage like that.

Reminding FiFi that he is up to his neck in shit is a metaphor and not an attack. That is based on his post that I referenced. At least not what an attack from me would be comprised of. It's obvious you do not have the mental capacity for honest open dialogue. So, on this we can agree, carry on with your circle jerk
So Let me remind you of your words:
No FiFi, it is you that is up to your neck in shit and apparently the only thing above the neck is just more shit. They are lying to you. Once you grasp this one inevitable fact may you start digging yourself out

Now I guess my cranial capacity is lacking because I read in this sentance: You just called andrew shit-for-brains. To me that is attacking the person.

Game-set-match. And trying to insult me again: again: Game-Set-Match.

Social Mistake, excuse the metaphor but ‘you are shit out of luck’. Assume the position and move on.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 23, 2021, 02:06:25 PM
So this is cancer and not Covid, but it does show how far science has come:

https://science.slashdot.org/story/21/11/23/012246/cancer-cells-use-tiny-tentacles-to-suck-mitochondria-out-of-immune-cells

Basicly it means that cancer is stealing the powersource of white t-cells, which is quite extraordinary.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 23, 2021, 03:40:08 PM

And yet, here you are. Denying first attacking Andrew which you most definately did. My english is good enough thank you. And then now attacking me myself for calling you out on it. Not productive and definately not wanting to engage like that.

Reminding FiFi that he is up to his neck in shit is a metaphor and not an attack. That is based on his post that I referenced. At least not what an attack from me would be comprised of. It's obvious you do not have the mental capacity for honest open dialogue. So, on this we can agree, carry on with your circle jerk
So Let me remind you of your words:
No FiFi, it is you that is up to your neck in shit and apparently the only thing above the neck is just more shit. They are lying to you. Once you grasp this one inevitable fact may you start digging yourself out

Now I guess my cranial capacity is lacking because I read in this sentance: You just called andrew shit-for-brains. To me that is attacking the person.

Game-set-match. And trying to insult me again: again: Game-Set-Match.

Social Mistake, excuse the metaphor but ‘you are shit out of luck’. Assume the position and move on.

Oh how quaint! Add in alphabet boy and the circle jerk is now at full throttle.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on November 24, 2021, 02:46:32 AM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:


More like conspiracy fact. Do you really believe immoral wars would happen without the blatant yellow journalism paid for by the evil bankers who finance both sides of every war for profit?

The vast majority of human beings prefer to get along and not get into wars. I don't believe they would ever happen without the enormous amount of yellow journalism which happens each and every time.
Oh, please. Are you seriously suggesting the world has been ‘ruled’ by a secret cabal for centuries and still is?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 24, 2021, 10:20:22 AM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:


More like conspiracy fact. Do you really believe immoral wars would happen without the blatant yellow journalism paid for by the evil bankers who finance both sides of every war for profit?

The vast majority of human beings prefer to get along and not get into wars. I don't believe they would ever happen without the enormous amount of yellow journalism which happens each and every time.
Oh, please. Are you seriously suggesting the world has been ‘ruled’ by a secret cabal for centuries and still is?

Yes, absolutely. And not centuries, thousands of years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Dogsoldier on November 24, 2021, 11:02:54 AM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:


More like conspiracy fact. Do you really believe immoral wars would happen without the blatant yellow journalism paid for by the evil bankers who finance both sides of every war for profit?

The vast majority of human beings prefer to get along and not get into wars. I don't believe they would ever happen :ROFL: without the enormous amount of yellow journalism which happens each and every time.
Oh, please. Are you seriously suggesting the world has been ‘ruled’ by a secret cabal for centuries and still is?

Yes, absolutely. And not centuries, thousands of years.

 :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 24, 2021, 03:06:19 PM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:


More like conspiracy fact. Do you really believe immoral wars would happen without the blatant yellow journalism paid for by the evil bankers who finance both sides of every war for profit?

The vast majority of human beings prefer to get along and not get into wars. I don't believe they would ever happen without the enormous amount of yellow journalism which happens each and every time.
Oh, please. Are you seriously suggesting the world has been ‘ruled’ by a secret cabal for centuries and still is?

Yes, absolutely. And not centuries, thousands of years.

Sorry but I’m not buying that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 24, 2021, 05:23:39 PM


It's not that hard to believe when you give it some thought. We've just been conditioned to believe what we've been told over and over from our usual information sources. The world has been controlled by a small group of people within a very secretive organization for several hundreds of years. It hasn't been total control and domination until the last few years.

Conspiracy theory 101.  :ROFL:


More like conspiracy fact. Do you really believe immoral wars would happen without the blatant yellow journalism paid for by the evil bankers who finance both sides of every war for profit?

The vast majority of human beings prefer to get along and not get into wars. I don't believe they would ever happen without the enormous amount of yellow journalism which happens each and every time.
Oh, please. Are you seriously suggesting the world has been ‘ruled’ by a secret cabal for centuries and still is?

Yes, absolutely. And not centuries, thousands of years.

Sorry but I’m not buying that.

Sorry but you and Dogsoldier are doing exactly what they want you to do: you're both still asleep, like the people are asleep in the Matrix movies.

Wake up brother!! Do you really think it's normal that your homeland has been invaded by people who don't belong there and don't have your same values much less skin color, but you're supposed to pretend it is A Okay? It is absolutely not A Okay. And even worse you can barely speak out against it, less you get charged with "hate thought". See it isn't even "hate speech" now it's hate thought.

They hate you 24/7 but you can't even defend yourself, you can't even identify who the real terrorists are and how they have destroyed your formerly beautiful country.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 25, 2021, 09:05:31 AM
A British writer, Arthur C. Clarke wrote, many years ago that any technology sufficiently advanced would be regarded by people coming into contact with it as magic.

He was thinking in terms of contact with alien races. However, it is clear that it applies to our society, our technology and a large number of people in our society.
We see it in respect of Covid-19 and, more particularly the vaccines and we see it in more cultural terms. When we are unable to explain something or understand it we try to find 'magical' ways to do so. That's what Contrarian and his ilk are doing when they suggest a hidden cabal of unseen rulers.

The truth is much more simple and complex, but there is no hidden cabal of overlords with a dastardly plan.

I understand this because there are people in the world who wield huge, and often unseen power. Sometimes they use their power for altruistic purposes, sometimes for malign purposes. Sometimes what they think is altruistic is not. We can see much of this, it is not hidden. It is in plain sight.

Very often these people are working on their own, there's no secret club. No secret pinky swears or rituals.

Today, there are people in the world who control wealth that is greater than the GDP of nations. Humans can't conceive of the vastness of that wealth or the power it enables. I suggest that not even the people who control that individual and corporate wealth can comprehend it.

If Jeff Bezos were a country, he would have been the 56th richest country, above Hungary.
Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/65041147.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

That's a few years out of date, but you get the point. We cannot comprehend the power of these people and so it is easier to imagine a secret, something also incomprehensible, but one that we accept we cannot know - because it is easier to do so.

On the whole, I think we can count ourselves fortunate that these people are self-interested and do not work together, that they do not individually try to use other wealth and consequent power for anything too malign. We may not always be so fortunate. Unlike a country, these people have no electorate to which they must answer. No overarching political or religious goals. The only one I can think of who comes close to acting as a supranational entity is George Soros through his Soros Foundation.

I am scared of the power of these people. I make no bones about it. I fully understand the attitude of China towards their home-grown billionaires and understand the deal Putin made with the oligarchy in Russia in 2001.

But a hidden hand from a religious cult, or a banking family - nope. That's not to say that some religious groups do have representation and power greater than they should, that the finance sector in many parts of the world has too much power - both true.

But the hokey theories of people like Confederate about masonic groups or even lizard people? Hokum, based upon ignorance, incomprehension and fear. They seek out the magic to explain what they cannot understand.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 25, 2021, 09:27:40 AM
A British writer, Arthur C. Clarke wrote, many years ago that any technology sufficiently advanced would be regarded by people coming into contact with it as magic.

He was thinking in terms of contact with alien races. However, it is clear that it applies to our society, our technology and a large number of people in our society.
We see it in respect of Covid-19 and, more particularly the vaccines and we see it in more cultural terms. When we are unable to explain something or understand it we try to find 'magical' ways to do so. That's what Contrarian and his ilk are doing when they suggest a hidden cabal of unseen rulers.

The truth is much more simple and complex, but there is no hidden cabal of overlords with a dastardly plan.

I understand this because there are people in the world who wield huge, and often unseen power. Sometimes they use their power for altruistic purposes, sometimes for malign purposes. Sometimes what they think is altruistic is not. We can see much of this, it is not hidden. It is in plain sight.

Very often these people are working on their own, there's no secret club. No secret pinky swears or rituals.

Today, there are people in the world who control wealth that is greater than the GDP of nations. Humans can't conceive of the vastness of that wealth or the power it enables. I suggest that not even the people who control that individual and corporate wealth can comprehend it.

If Jeff Bezos were a country, he would have been the 56th richest country, above Hungary.
Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/65041147.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

That's a few years out of date, but you get the point. We cannot comprehend the power of these people and so it is easier to imagine a secret, something also incomprehensible, but one that we accept we cannot know - because it is easier to do so.

On the whole, I think we can count ourselves fortunate that these people are self-interested and do not work together, that they do not individually try to use other wealth and consequent power for anything too malign. We may not always be so fortunate. Unlike a country, these people have no electorate to which they must answer. No overarching political or religious goals. The only one I can think of who comes close to acting as a supranational entity is George Soros through his Soros Foundation.

I am scared of the power of these people. I make no bones about it. I fully understand the attitude of China towards their home-grown billionaires and understand the deal Putin made with the oligarchy in Russia in 2001.

But a hidden hand from a religious cult, or a banking family - nope. That's not to say that some religious groups do have representation and power greater than they should, that the finance sector in many parts of the world has too much power - both true.

But the hokey theories of people like Confederate about masonic groups or even lizard people? Hokum, based upon ignorance, incomprehension and fear. They seek out the magic to explain what they cannot understand.


   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 25, 2021, 12:33:45 PM
They seek out the magic to explain what they cannot understand.

Contempt prior to investigation, and choosing the conclusion then trying to back it up with fallacies.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 25, 2021, 07:00:38 PM
They seek out the magic to explain what they cannot understand.

Contempt prior to investigation, and choosing the conclusion then trying to back it up with fallacies.

When watching you "debate" with Faux Pas and others it appears to me that this is your precise method.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 25, 2021, 10:13:15 PM
Tyranny is the real goal of this ongoing "live exercise".


https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/11/23/the-fake-covid-pandemic-was-orchestrated-in-order-to-impose-tyranny/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 26, 2021, 04:27:32 AM
They seek out the magic to explain what they cannot understand.

Contempt prior to investigation, and choosing the conclusion then trying to back it up with fallacies.

When watching you "debate" with Faux Pas and others it appears to me that this is your precise method.

Contrarian,

I don't rely on argumentum ad ignorantium to substantiate my positions, as others here do.

Quote
The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition.  Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made.  The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.   

https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2021, 01:06:48 PM
They seek out the magic to explain what they cannot understand.

Contempt prior to investigation, and choosing the conclusion then trying to back it up with fallacies.

When watching you "debate" with Faux Pas and others it appears to me that this is your precise method.

Contrarian,

I don't rely on argumentum ad ignorantium to substantiate my positions....



ALL of your "positions" are based on the argumentum ad nauseam preached to you by MSM which is anxiety, fear, panic, paranoia. You are a product of very careful brainwashing and you will do what your masters tell you to do. Have you gotten your 2nd or 3rd booster shot yet?  :laugh:

And right on time "the powers that be" are announcing yet another variant.

https://news.yahoo.com/dr-marc-siegel-coronavirus-variant-135016487.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2021, 01:12:07 PM
Funny but the majority of people testing positive for CV are vaccinated. It seems that the leaky viruses which "the powers that be" put into these vaccines are working well to keep the fear going.

"A rep for Adams at the time said that the musician is fully vaccinated and showed no symptoms.

It is unclear whether the latest positive test is a result of so-called shedding of the coronavirus, which results in those affected continuing to test positive for a long time beyond the period when they are contagious."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/entertainment/bryan-adams-covid-positive/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 26, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
Contrarian,

Quote
ALL of your "positions" are based on the argumentum ad nauseam preached to you by MSM which is anxiety, fear, panic, paranoia. You are a product of very careful brainwashing and you will do what your masters tell you to do.

You go great lengths to prove my point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2021, 04:51:25 PM
Contrarian,

Quote
ALL of your "positions" are based on the argumentum ad nauseam preached to you by MSM which is anxiety, fear, panic, paranoia. You are a product of very careful brainwashing and you will do what your masters tell you to do.

You go great lengths to prove my point.

So you have had your 2nd booster shot? Will you be getting them twice a year now for the rest of your life?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 26, 2021, 11:32:59 PM
Funny but the majority of people testing positive for CV are vaccinated. It seems that the leaky viruses which "the powers that be" put into these vaccines are working well to keep the fear going.

"A rep for Adams at the time said that the musician is fully vaccinated and showed no symptoms.

It is unclear whether the latest positive test is a result of so-called shedding of the coronavirus, which results in those affected continuing to test positive for a long time beyond the period when they are contagious."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/entertainment/bryan-adams-covid-positive/index.html

Yes, but he is not in hospital or dead. Sample size of one does not tell anybody much about anything. Nowhere in this does it support your claim that the majority of people with COVID had vaccinations. I guess now you are going to replace Billy with all the fake anti vaccination conspiracy theories. And yes, it has been known for some time that COVID also has carriers that have disease and can spread it without much in the way of symptoms. None of this is a reason to not get vaccinated nor does any of this say anything about the vaccine not being effective.

A new variant, Omicron, out and I had hope that maybe some real information about it would be on the site. I guess real news has a way to not be posted here while everyone fights over whether the vaccine worked on variants that will soon disappear.

The real new is travel restrictions are being put in place again causing the stock markets to drop while it is being learned if the vaccine is going to be effective against it or not. In south Africa the delta variant is being displaced with a more contagious form of disease. Not much is known about Omicron to vaccine effectiveness to death rate.  I get more information from a blank page than from a contrarian post.   
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 27, 2021, 01:27:29 AM
So you have had your 2nd booster shot? Will you be getting them twice a year now for the rest of your life?  :laugh:

Not yet, but scheduled.  If further boosters are recommended, I hope they're mixed with the yearly flu shots that I get anyway.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 27, 2021, 01:40:11 AM

A new variant, Omicron, out and I had hope that maybe some real information about it would be on the site. I guess real news has a way to not be posted here while everyone fights over whether the vaccine worked on variants that will soon disappear.

The real new is travel restrictions are being put in place again causing the stock markets to drop while it is being learned if the vaccine is going to be effective against it or not. In south Africa the delta variant is being displaced with a more contagious form of disease. Not much is known about Omicron to vaccine effectiveness to death rate.  I get more information from a blank page than from a contrarian post.

Although there are thousands of variants, it is interesting that this variant of concern seems to come from an area where vaccination rates are very low.  Coincidence? Who knows...
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 27, 2021, 05:14:04 AM
The Omicron variant was only discovered a few days ago.

Here's pretty much the most complete analysis on the topic available right now.


Almost nothing is known right now except that it seems to be very much more transmissible.

It is thought that the mutation occurred in a single person with untreated hiv which gave the opportunity for the virus to undergo the huge number of mutations that are the root of the concern. As I understand it, the number of mutations means that our immune systems, whether from natural or artificially induced sources, may not recognise the new variant.

As John Campbell notes, if the Omicron variant turns out to be relatively benign that could be a good thing. But nobody is betting on that right now.

Also, from another decent source, due to the mutations already present the new variant has probably been floating around for a couple of months and created more than one subvariant.

It'll take about 3 months to prepare a new version of the current vaccines that can stop Omicron. Most of that time will undoubtedly be brewing up viable quantities of the vaccine. It takes only a few days to design the vaccine based on the genomic sequencing of the organism.

That's why there's been such a rush to stop the spread but it almost certainly already worldwide. But the hope will be to reduce the number of starting points around the globe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 27, 2021, 07:15:03 AM
Andrew,

If it is decided that a new vaccine brews are needed, they may have to go through the full trial process taking considerably more time.  Meanwhile I have seen promising work is being done on universal type covid vaccines targeting the virus itself and not just the spikes, which is where most variations are currently being detected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2021, 10:40:23 AM
Funny but the majority of people testing positive for CV are vaccinated. It seems that the leaky viruses which "the powers that be" put into these vaccines are working well to keep the fear going.

"A rep for Adams at the time said that the musician is fully vaccinated and showed no symptoms.

It is unclear whether the latest positive test is a result of so-called shedding of the coronavirus, which results in those affected continuing to test positive for a long time beyond the period when they are contagious."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/entertainment/bryan-adams-covid-positive/index.html

Yes, but he is not in hospital or dead. Sample size of one does not tell anybody much about anything. Nowhere in this does it support your claim that the majority of people with COVID had vaccinations. I guess now you are going to replace Billy with all the fake anti vaccination conspiracy theories. And yes, it has been known for some time that COVID also has carriers that have disease and can spread it without much in the way of symptoms. None of this is a reason to not get vaccinated nor does any of this say anything about the vaccine not being effective.

A new variant, Omicron, out and I had hope that maybe some real information about it would be on the site. I guess real news has a way to not be posted here while everyone fights over whether the vaccine worked on variants that will soon disappear.

The real new is travel restrictions are being put in place again causing the stock markets to drop while it is being learned if the vaccine is going to be effective against it or not. In south Africa the delta variant is being displaced with a more contagious form of disease. Not much is known about Omicron to vaccine effectiveness to death rate.  I get more information from a blank page than from a contrarian post.

Most people here consider you to be the prime source on this forum of writing a bunch of nonsensical grammatically poor gibberish which amounts to a heap of BS, so coming from you that's rich.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 27, 2021, 03:16:52 PM
I'm no expert on vaccine testing and approval but every year I get offered the opportunity to have the flu vaccine that every year is a different brew designed to cope with the expected top-dog flu virus.

I expect that the process will be the same or very similar to the flu vaccine d'annee.
Title: Covid is Over (If You Want It)
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2021, 03:38:31 PM
"To me, it feels like the nation is on the verge of collectively exhaling after what can only be described as a physically arduous and psychologically burdensome 24 months. We’ve lost some family and friends, we’re all a couple years older, our perspectives have shifted - yet, if you’re reading this, you’re one of the billions of members of the human race relentlessly marching forward.

Together, we have dealt with an assault on our senses for nearly two years and, this holiday season, it’s time to just let that shit go."


https://quoththeraven.substack.com/p/covid-is-over-if-you-want-it?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=web
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Funny but the majority of people testing positive for CV are vaccinated. It seems that the leaky viruses which "the powers that be" put into these vaccines are working well to keep the fear going.

"A rep for Adams at the time said that the musician is fully vaccinated and showed no symptoms.

It is unclear whether the latest positive test is a result of so-called shedding of the coronavirus, which results in those affected continuing to test positive for a long time beyond the period when they are contagious."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/entertainment/bryan-adams-covid-positive/index.html

Yes, but he is not in hospital or dead. Sample size of one does not tell anybody much about anything. Nowhere in this does it support your claim that the majority of people with COVID had vaccinations. I guess now you are going to replace Billy with all the fake anti vaccination conspiracy theories. And yes, it has been known for some time that COVID also has carriers that have disease and can spread it without much in the way of symptoms. None of this is a reason to not get vaccinated nor does any of this say anything about the vaccine not being effective.

A new variant, Omicron, out and I had hope that maybe some real information about it would be on the site. I guess real news has a way to not be posted here while everyone fights over whether the vaccine worked on variants that will soon disappear.

The real new is travel restrictions are being put in place again causing the stock markets to drop while it is being learned if the vaccine is going to be effective against it or not. In south Africa the delta variant is being displaced with a more contagious form of disease. Not much is known about Omicron to vaccine effectiveness to death rate.  I get more information from a blank page than from a contrarian post.

Here moron. Since you suddenly decided that I should be your new source for hypersensitive propaganda disguised as news on all things "Covid" here is a factual article on the latest Covid bullshit for those who love to pretend that bullshit is actually news. Other than that grow up.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/goldman-slams-omicron-panic-mutation-unlikely-be-more-malicious-no-reason-major-portfolio
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 27, 2021, 06:34:06 PM
Andrew,

If it is decided that a new vaccine brews are needed, they may have to go through the full trial process taking considerably more time.  Meanwhile I have seen promising work is being done on universal type covid vaccines targeting the virus itself and not just the spikes, which is where most variations are currently being detected.

I'm no expert on vaccine testing and approval but every year I get offered the opportunity to have the flu vaccine that every year is a different brew designed to cope with the expected top-dog flu virus.

I expect that the process will be the same or very similar to the flu vaccine d'annee.

You folks have lost all ability for reason and critical thought. They've given you another variant just in time for Christmas and rather than to stop and think, you are already lining up for your next jab. How many variants will it take before that dim light in your heads turn on?

Consider this just for a moment, the jabs thus far hasn't worked yet,  you somehow reason the next jab will? Sounds like the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Do you remember the days not so long ago I might add where all we need do is lock down , distance and wear a diaper on your face just until "we flatten the curve"? 20 months later you're foaming at the mouth in anticipation of the next jab.

For the last time, the jab isn't a vaccine. It is an untested drug that doesn't work yet, you're masturbating at the thought of a booster. . Vaccines actually work, we know this by testing prior to roll out, not after. You both proclaim to follow the science but if you had, you'd never have went down this path in the first place.

One thing the jab can take credit for is that it apparently makes those who take it more ignorant
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on November 28, 2021, 01:47:19 AM
Andrew,

If it is decided that a new vaccine brews are needed, they may have to go through the full trial process taking considerably more time.  Meanwhile I have seen promising work is being done on universal type covid vaccines targeting the virus itself and not just the spikes, which is where most variations are currently being detected.

I'm no expert on vaccine testing and approval but every year I get offered the opportunity to have the flu vaccine that every year is a different brew designed to cope with the expected top-dog flu virus.

I expect that the process will be the same or very similar to the flu vaccine d'annee.

You folks have lost all ability for reason and critical thought. They've given you another variant just in time for Christmas and rather than to stop and think, you are already lining up for your next jab. How many variants will it take before that dim light in your heads turn on?

Consider this just for a moment, the jabs thus far hasn't worked yet,  you somehow reason the next jab will? Sounds like the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Do you remember the days not so long ago I might add where all we need do is lock down , distance and wear a diaper on your face just until "we flatten the curve"? 20 months later you're foaming at the mouth in anticipation of the next jab.

For the last time, the jab isn't a vaccine. It is an untested drug that doesn't work yet, you're masturbating at the thought of a booster. . Vaccines actually work, we know this by testing prior to roll out, not after. You both proclaim to follow the science but if you had, you'd never have went down this path in the first place.

One thing the jab can take credit for is that it apparently makes those who take it more ignorant

 tiphat :thumbsup:

There was a rumour, now that Pfizer has acquired the exclusive rights on its experimental vaccine product and also protection and no responsibility till 2076  will start an advertising campaign..... "Buy One get one free present", e.g anybody who make the 4 or 10? vaccination will be given a "present" also a packet of their Famous product Viagra to help your mood during the Lock down times!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 28, 2021, 02:05:58 AM

Consider this just for a moment, the jabs thus far hasn't worked yet,  you somehow reason the next jab will? Sounds like the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


FP,

The data shows that the jabs are working.  Not 100% but quite good nonetheless, and especially so in combination with other simple measures.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on November 28, 2021, 02:33:08 AM

Consider this just for a moment, the jabs thus far hasn't worked yet,  you somehow reason the next jab will? Sounds like the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


FP,

The data shows that the jabs are working.  Not 100% but quite good nonetheless, and especially so in combination with other simple measures.

If they do, as you say, why people are infected again and pass it on and  why then you need to have another jab to improve the antibodies?

Can you give us some reliable data of how many people were reinfected and have died from Covid 19 or from other infections or pathogens?

 ???
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 28, 2021, 04:13:05 AM

If they do, as you say, why people are infected again and pass it on and  why then you need to have another jab to improve the antibodies?

Can you give us some reliable data of how many people were reinfected and have died from Covid 19 or from other infections or pathogens?

 ???

Wiz,

for the exact same reasons as the flu shot.  People do get infected and can infect others, but less than without.  Bottom line, around one tenth die as would without the shots.

First vaccination in the US 14 December. 299,193 deaths prior. Yesterday 799,138 = 499,945 deaths since 14 December or 1515 per million.
First vaccination in Italy 27 December, but let's take 14 December for parity. 65,011 deaths prior. Yesterday 133,537=68,526 deaths since 14 December, or 1142 per million.

In two months, for the US 1191 deaths per million to 1515, a 324 per million increase.
In two months, for Italy 1088 deaths per million to 1142, a 54 per million increase.

Last month the difference was 238, up from 103 per million, now that has grown to 270 per million in two months, and is still on the rise, representing a difference of 89,100 US lives during the same month period using population-adjusted figures.

(http://i.postimg.cc/VLkx4GmS/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-13-48-35.png)
http://i.postimg.cc/VLkx4GmS/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-13-48-35.png

(http://i.postimg.cc/1zsccT12/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-13-51-09.png)
http://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/

Note: The US figures don't include booster doses.  Almost 50% of those here over 80 have received them along with a good number of those over 40.  Italy is again working down with strict age brackets and vulnerable. I have seen recent reports that 20% of Americans that were vaccinated have received their booster shot, and that anyone 18 or over is eligible.

Italy stands at over 87% of those over 12 have at least one shot, and almost 85% are fully vaccinated.

The political divide is quite evident in the US.

(http://i.postimg.cc/SsC4FDK6/Screen-Shot-2021-11-27-at-14-12-56.png)
http://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/

Somewhat similar experience between Germany and Italy.  Germany used to have very low numbers of deaths, however now much higher than in Italy, current 7 day average 255/day vs 70/day.  Italy over 12 % fully vaccinated: 84.5% With at least one dose 87.3%  Germany lags behind by a considerable amount.  Ditto with boosters.

Italy currently has 624 in intensive care, Germany 4,200 which is really bad.

Make your own determination.  IMO the correlation between vaccinations, severe illness and death are quite evident.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 28, 2021, 04:17:34 AM
Faux Pas, try something, please share with us the authoritative data from credible sources that shows the current covid-19 vaccines are ineffective.

To help us all, please share your definition of effectiveness in the context of covid-19 vaccines.

I am, as always, willing to learn.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 28, 2021, 02:48:21 PM
Faux Pas, try something, please share with us the authoritative data from credible sources that shows the current covid-19 vaccines are ineffective.

To help us all, please share your definition of effectiveness in the context of covid-19 vaccines.

I am, as always, willing to learn.

How about this. Let's see if you are actually "willing to learn" or if you're just going to repeat what your masters tell you to repeat.  :chuckle:


https://davidicke.com/2021/11/27/cult-owned-big-pharma-unveils-its-plans-for-omicron-strain-a-new-vaccine-they-already-have-sitting-there-waiting-to-roll-out-get-your-booster-your-booster-your-booster-your-booster-your-boo/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 28, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
Come on idiot. David Icke, credible, authoritative.

You're just trolling. Don't waste your time.

No data, no research.

Let's be clear, I am not saying you're an imbecile. I just think that you're incredibly unlucky with your thinking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 28, 2021, 05:29:53 PM
Faux Pas, try something, please share with us the authoritative data from credible sources that shows the current covid-19 vaccines are ineffective.

To help us all, please share your definition of effectiveness in the context of covid-19 vaccines.

I am, as always, willing to learn.

FiFi, you mean something as authoritative Wikipedia as you posted upthread or the other propaganda from Fauci or the WHO?

I'm going to type this slow so that you may keep up better and hopefully grasp more of the information that is actually pertinent to you. "They. are. lying. to. you". Until you come to terms with this one irrefutable fact your brain will not be able to comprehend the reality of what is going on around you.

You are waiting with baited breath for the next round of jabs like a Somalian refugee needing a CARE package. You want another jab to vaccinate you from the virus that you have already been vaccinated from. Yet, all along you claim the jabs work. You wordsmith on the boards as if you have a modicum of intelligence but you fail to see how circular your logic is. They are lying to you, the jabs don't work and to make it worse they are killing people.

As you so often state, "lets do the maths". Here we have a virus that can and will very likely kill .02% of the worlds population. Yes, that .02% could very well include you and/or I. I'm going to let you in on a secret viruses do kill people. We knew that before covid, didn't we? Albeit the number is relatively small. Pretty much just like the seasonal flu. The seasonal flu shots doesn't seem to affect that number any, does it?

There are a plethora of different things to kill us. Now we have covid and those that have taken it, also can add the jab to that list. In hopes of eliminating one of the death chances you have only added another to the list. Hows that maths for you? You are trusting as well as promoting the very same group of people with your life, who wish to institute depopulation the world over. The fact that covid is "here" and compliments of the same people offering you a cure, raises no flags in your confused little head.

Your best chance against covid or any other viruses floating around is your very own immune system, You know, like it was before covid. Strengthening your immune system is your best weapon. Taking a jab only limits and weakens that immune system. Graphene oxide has no purpose for your health inside your body. Nor inside anyone else's body but for some reason you pinheads believe the world needs to be jabbed. The world doesn't.

BTW, David Icke is very credible and knowledgeable on the subject. He doesn't lend any credibility to the junk science you follow, he does have a firm grasp on who and what is behind it. But I digress, I just warn you, for your own good stop and think for yourself. Look at the whole business of covid and where is the junk science coming from. It's coming from people who want you dead.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 28, 2021, 07:05:37 PM
Faux Pas, try something, please share with us the authoritative data from credible sources that shows the current covid-19 vaccines are ineffective.

To help us all, please share your definition of effectiveness in the context of covid-19 vaccines.

I am, as always, willing to learn.

FiFi, you mean something as authoritative Wikipedia as you posted upthread or the other propaganda from Fauci or the WHO?

I'm going to type this slow so that you may keep up better and hopefully grasp more of the information that is actually pertinent to you. "They. are. lying. to. you". Until you come to terms with this one irrefutable fact your brain will not be able to comprehend the reality of what is going on around you.

You are waiting with baited breath for the next round of jabs like a Somalian refugee needing a CARE package. You want another jab to vaccinate you from the virus that you have already been vaccinated from. Yet, all along you claim the jabs work. You wordsmith on the boards as if you have a modicum of intelligence but you fail to see how circular your logic is. They are lying to you, the jabs don't work and to make it worse they are killing people.

As you so often state, "lets do the maths". Here we have a virus that can and will very likely kill .02% of the worlds population. Yes, that .02% could very well include you and/or I. I'm going to let you in on a secret viruses do kill people. We knew that before covid, didn't we? Albeit the number is relatively small. Pretty much just like the seasonal flu. The seasonal flu shots doesn't seem to affect that number any, does it?

There are a plethora of different things to kill us. Now we have covid and those that have taken it, also can add the jab to that list. In hopes of eliminating one of the death chances you have only added another to the list. Hows that maths for you? You are trusting as well as promoting the very same group of people with your life, who wish to institute depopulation the world over. The fact that covid is "here" and compliments of the same people offering you a cure, raises no flags in your confused little head.

Your best chance against covid or any other viruses floating around is your very own immune system, You know, like it was before covid. Strengthening your immune system is your best weapon. Taking a jab only limits and weakens that immune system. Graphene oxide has no purpose for your health inside your body. Nor inside anyone else's body but for some reason you pinheads believe the world needs to be jabbed. The world doesn't.

BTW, David Icke is very credible and knowledgeable on the subject. He doesn't lend any credibility to the junk science you follow, he does have a firm grasp on who and what is behind it. But I digress, I just warn you, for your own good stop and think for yourself. Look at the whole business of covid and where is the junk science coming from. It's coming from people who want you dead.

As I recall Andrew loves to eat at McDonalds. Heart disease is actually the number one killer in the World. Is the WHO and any other health "authority" moving to shut down McDonalds or at the very least drastically modify their menu?

No they are not, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this isn't about your health, it's about tyranny and the 1% gaining more immoral control over the lives of the 99%, at a handsome profit.

And I agree with Faux Pas, if the initial jab was truly effective, there wouldn't be a need for more jabs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 28, 2021, 08:36:14 PM
BTW, David Icke is very credible and knowledgeable on the subject. He doesn't lend any credibility to the junk science you follow, he does have a firm grasp on who and what is behind it. But I digress, I just warn you, for your own good stop and think for yourself. Look at the whole business of covid and where is the junk science coming from. It's coming from people who want you dead.

Social Mistake, while I can understand and comprehend some of your claims. I suspect in the future some will scratch there heads and wonder about the anti vaccine group.

For what it is worth below here is the Wikipedia link to D. Icke. If you research some of his claims and statements you will see how deep he is in the cuckoos nest. Loony is almost complimentary.

One just has to read the links to understand the reality.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on November 28, 2021, 08:46:29 PM
As I recall Andrew loves to eat at McDonalds. Heart disease is actually the number one killer in the World. Is the WHO and any other health "authority" moving to shut down McDonalds or at the very least drastically modify their menu?

Well I am uncertain if Andrew eats at McDonald’s and I do not care.

Choosing to eat at the Golden Arches is a self choice. COVID is not. The same is true of using tobacco and alcohol. For what it is worth in fact McDonald’s has had to modify their menu to make it more “healthy.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 28, 2021, 09:41:32 PM
BTW, David Icke is very credible and knowledgeable on the subject. He doesn't lend any credibility to the junk science you follow, he does have a firm grasp on who and what is behind it. But I digress, I just warn you, for your own good stop and think for yourself. Look at the whole business of covid and where is the junk science coming from. It's coming from people who want you dead.

Social Mistake, while I can understand and comprehend some of your claims. I suspect in the future some will scratch there heads and wonder about the anti vaccine group.

For what it is worth below here is the Wikipedia link to D. Icke. If you research some of his claims and statements you will see how deep he is in the cuckoos nest. Loony is almost complimentary.

One just has to read the links to understand the reality.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

I suspect someday that Icke and many like him will get the last laugh. This is not to say that he did do some bizarre things previously.

However his basic theory about "Archons" is an old theory and it isn't his theory, it goes back to the Gnostic gospels and Jesus himself makes a statement that he "would not look for the Archons and they won't look for him".

Quoting the wiki link about David Icke:

"manipulate events to keep humans in fear, so that the Archons can feed off the resulting "negative energy".[15][18][19]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 28, 2021, 11:51:05 PM
BTW, David Icke is very credible and knowledgeable on the subject. He doesn't lend any credibility to the junk science you follow, he does have a firm grasp on who and what is behind it. But I digress, I just warn you, for your own good stop and think for yourself. Look at the whole business of covid and where is the junk science coming from. It's coming from people who want you dead.

Social Mistake, while I can understand and comprehend some of your claims. I suspect in the future some will scratch there heads and wonder about the anti vaccine group.

For what it is worth below here is the Wikipedia link to D. Icke. If you research some of his claims and statements you will see how deep he is in the cuckoos nest. Loony is almost complimentary.

One just has to read the links to understand the reality.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

I suspect someday that Icke and many like him will get the last laugh. This is not to say that he did do some bizarre things previously.

However his basic theory about "Archons" is an old theory and it isn't his theory, it goes back to the Gnostic gospels and Jesus himself makes a statement that he "would not look for the Archons and they won't look for him".

Quoting the wiki link about David Icke:

"manipulate events to keep humans in fear, so that the Archons can feed off the resulting "negative energy".[15][18][19]

Correction:
"This is not to say that he did NOT do some bizarre things previously"  :laugh:

At least I think that's what I was trying to say about him. That he did indeed say and do some bizarre things.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on November 29, 2021, 07:02:19 AM
(https://scontent.frix7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/262320734_10159424808218329_5147670168122480976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YuYUaLUFY_kAX_4X6ih&_nc_ht=scontent.frix7-1.fna&oh=e7d091071ff74ba9203e4ac238a5818a&oe=61AA1CFD)

They want you to keep taking booster shots until you have no blood left in your body just vaccine..  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 29, 2021, 07:22:38 AM
Faux Pas, claims made without data are worthless. The case for vaccine effectiveness and safety is clear, well documented and, at this time, unassailable.

So, if you want to convince me, please find some data to support the fantastic and incredible claims made by David 'Lizard People' Icke. This should not be hard. Surely a credible researcher such as David Icke will have plenty of credible data and evidence to back up his claims, right? All you have to show us is that people are keeling over and dying in greater numbers after vaccination than happened due to covid before vaccinations were available. There must be plenty of evidence of that type, right?

Just link to the peer-reviewed research in relevant medical journals and bingo-bango you have a case. ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 29, 2021, 09:24:49 AM
(https://scontent.frix7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/262320734_10159424808218329_5147670168122480976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YuYUaLUFY_kAX_4X6ih&_nc_ht=scontent.frix7-1.fna&oh=e7d091071ff74ba9203e4ac238a5818a&oe=61AA1CFD)

They want you to keep taking booster shots until you have no blood left in your body just vaccine..  :laugh:

That's about it. They keep scaring people with fear porn except that the people are waking up!

The ones who are not waking up and keep taking their poison, well we might not miss some of them.  :king:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 29, 2021, 09:27:14 AM
Faux Pas, claims made without data are worthless. The case for vaccine effectiveness and safety is clear, well documented and, at this time, unassailable.

So, if you want to convince me, please find some data to support the fantastic and incredible claims made by David 'Lizard People' Icke. This should not be hard. Surely a credible researcher such as David Icke will have plenty of credible data and evidence to back up his claims, right? All you have to show us is that people are keeling over and dying in greater numbers after vaccination than happened due to covid before vaccinations were available. There must be plenty of evidence of that type, right?

Just link to the peer-reviewed research in relevant medical journals and bingo-bango you have a case. ;)


https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/what-cdcs-vaers-database-reveals-about-adverse-post-vaccine-reactions
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on November 29, 2021, 09:28:37 AM
The Lancet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet), for those who might not know, is a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal. It is among the world's oldest and best-known general medical journals. It was founded in 1823. It is regarded as very reliable and read by a great many doctors.

They published an article this month: Protective immunity after recovery from SARS-CoV-2 infection (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00676-9/)

Its worth a read, but here's the takeaway points:


Therefore it would seem that if you've had it, subsequent vaccinations and boosters seem quite pointless. And possibly even harmful.

Governments and media IMO don't discuss post-infection immunity enough.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 29, 2021, 10:39:48 AM
Manny, I think you might have a point about boosters and post infection immunity.

I have a feeling that the the reason, in the UK, for focusing on boosters and less on post infection immunity comes down to management.

In the UK infection and recovery is not part of the covid certification program.
That means it is almost impossible to confirm whether a particular person gets a get out of jail free card.

In estonia, for example, if one gets covid, one gets a certificate from the doctor that's recorded in the covid app. Until recently that excused people from getting vaccination and enabled them to go into social areas.

That couldn't happen in the UK. So there is concentration on boosters for all as it gives a level playing field that can be administered transparently.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on November 29, 2021, 10:55:29 AM
That couldn't happen in the UK.

Why not?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 29, 2021, 10:58:09 AM
That couldn't happen in the UK.

Why not?

$$$
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Steveboy on November 29, 2021, 11:39:44 AM
Its all getting bloody boring this Covid stuff Im not having any boosters.. I don't really care anymore .. if anything comes along I'm just going to shake it off like snow on my jacket..  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 29, 2021, 02:24:24 PM
That couldn't happen in the UK.

Why not?

Because there is no authoritative UK record and certification of the people who have had Covid-19. The system is based around vaccination alone. To go back now would create a whole heap of problems. Imagine the whining from all the folks who got a vaccination who'd be 'upset' because they'd claim they would not have had the jabs if they could've gotten away with just getting the lurgey!

As it happens, in Estonia, they are ditching the pre-infection exemption, so you need to get jabbed to go anywhere or do anything - a reaction to having become the plague capital of the world.

As a German politician said a few days ago. by the spring of next year, everyone will either have recovered from the covid, been vaccinated, or be dead.
Ultimately, everyone alive today will either be dead or have had covid. The trick is to protect the people who need protection - many of whom do not even know they need protection. IMHO that's the best reason for vaccination and boosters.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 30, 2021, 06:06:52 AM
Faux Pas, claims made without data are worthless. The case for vaccine effectiveness and safety is clear, well documented and, at this time, unassailable.

So, if you want to convince me, please find some data to support the fantastic and incredible claims made by David 'Lizard People' Icke. This should not be hard. Surely a credible researcher such as David Icke will have plenty of credible data and evidence to back up his claims, right? All you have to show us is that people are keeling over and dying in greater numbers after vaccination than happened due to covid before vaccinations were available. There must be plenty of evidence of that type, right?

Just link to the peer-reviewed research in relevant medical journals and bingo-bango you have a case. ;)

FiFi, you've obviously mistaken me for somebody else. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. It makes no difference to me what you believe or don't believe. I have no skin in that game. I am merely posting some "truth" and common sense to that pre-scripted parroted tripe heard daily in the MSM, all those internet sources you cherish so much and repeatedly post here on the boards.

You can spray all the perfume on that turd you like but, it's still a turd. Apparently, you're still seeking the "authoritative voice" on the matter. What you continuously ignore is the fact that the authority is lying to you. I've given you plenty of examples yet you still persist.

There are literally hoards and hoards of information from those places for you to use and feel all warm and fuzzy in your decision. All designed for you to accept that a jab is the best, quickest and safe way to go. There are also hoards of information telling us otherwise. What is the point in posting that information here? I have only encouraged to stop and think for yourself. Forget what you think you know and approach the situation before your brainwashing was complete. Try harder to find your open mind for the truth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on November 30, 2021, 06:10:42 AM
You're not posting 'truth'. Truth is based upon facts, supported by data.

You're unaware of what truth is because you do not have the mental tools to enable you to divine truth from truthiness.

If you did not want to convince us of something you'd not post, because, what's the point in posting if your purpose is not to transfer information? And, surely, you do not want to communicate information that you know to be untrue, do you?

I do not feel all warm and fuzzy, as you put it, about what is going on. The truth is rather unpleasant and scary. I'd suggest that it is you who wants to be all warm and fuzzy because your fantasies are rather more palatable.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on November 30, 2021, 08:17:22 AM
There is only "truth" Fi. Anything not the truth is a lie. Half truth is still a lie. Truthiness or something you want to be the truth even if you want it to be the truth still is not the truth. You parrot the mantra of the "authority". Because the authority tells you to do so, and because you believe it the "truth" does not make it the truth. Shit in, shit out is easily applied here in your instance. Question authority.

You wish to question my mental capacity because it scares you. Mostly, because I have the brass cajones to question the authority you hold so dear and need to be true or everything else you have always believed is in question. I understand your need to do so. It's a self preservation mechanism. The difference in you and I is, you need that approval of the authority, I do not. Thus, I do not care what you think nor do I have a need to convince you of anything. You simply do not matter to me. You on the other hand need and seek the approval of others. This is a basic character flaw you possess and your weakness, not mine.

I used to post  here mainly for other reasons. I still am available for those reasons but mostly my information for those reasons is largely out of date at this point in time. But the core reason I have always posted is to counter bad information. Only the subject has changed. You, on this particular subject continue to post bad and erroneous information. I post here for this reason.

The truth more often than not, is very scary and not very unpleasant. In fact if you were to open your eyes and well as your mind you'd likely be very scared to death of the truth. This because you are a weak minded individual. Believing what you've been spoon fed as the truth, not questioning it helps you to feel safe and safe is all you need, whether it is the actual truth or not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 30, 2021, 01:47:50 PM
"Vaccines for Bill Gates are a strategic philanthropy that feed his many vaccine-related businesses (including #Microsoft’s ambition to control a global vac ID enterprise) and give him dictatorial control over global health policy—the spear tip of corporate neo-imperialism.

Gates’ obsession with vaccines seems fueled by a messianic conviction that he is ordained to save the world with technology and a god-like willingness to experiment with the lives of lesser humans.

Promising to eradicate Polio with $1.2 billion, Gates took control of India ‘s National Advisory Board (NAB) and mandated 50 polio vaccines (up from 5) to every child before age 5. Indian doctors blame the Gates campaign for a devastating vaccine-strain polio epidemic that paralyzed 496,000 children between 2000 and 2017. In 2017, the Indian Government dialed back Gates’ vaccine regimen and evicted Gates and his cronies from the NAB. Polio paralysis rates dropped precipitously. In 2017, the World Health Organization reluctantly admitted that the global polio explosion is predominantly vaccine strain, meaning it is coming from Gates’ Vaccine Program. The most frightening epidemics in Congo, the Philippines, and Afghanistan are all linked to Gates’ vaccines. By 2018, ¾ of global polio cases were from Gates’ vaccines."

https://fort-russ.com/2020/04/robert-f-kennedy-jr-exposes-bill-gates-vaccine-dictatorship-plan-cites-gates-twisted-messiah-complex/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 30, 2021, 05:14:15 PM
Here you go, Andrew.

Hard Data Shows the Covid Vaccines Don't Work

Gibraltar

"On November 17, Gibraltar posted its highest number of new cases in more than 10 months. The surge became a cause of great concern and prompted the government to call off Christmas festivities. The last time Gibraltar had so many cases was at the height of the winter wave in mid-January of 2021.

The most startling aspect of the current surge is that Gibraltar is the most highly vaccinated region in the world with more than 99 percent of its population being fully vaccinated. Even more astonishingly, more than 40 percent of Gibraltarians have already received their booster."

https://fort-russ.com/2021/11/hard-data-shows-the-covid-vaccines-dont-work/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 30, 2021, 05:35:52 PM
Here's more, Andrew.

Over 30K deaths and nearly 3 Million injuries.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/31014-deaths-2890600-injuries-following-covid-shots-european-database-adverse-reactions-young-previously-healthy-people-continue-die/5763028

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/lrc-cdn/assets/2021/10/Picture15-620x626.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 30, 2021, 06:06:10 PM
Here you go, Andrew.

Hard Data Shows the Covid Vaccines Don't Work

Gibraltar

"On November 17, Gibraltar posted its highest number of new cases in more than 10 months. The surge became a cause of great concern and prompted the government to call off Christmas festivities. The last time Gibraltar had so many cases was at the height of the winter wave in mid-January of 2021.

The most startling aspect of the current surge is that Gibraltar is the most highly vaccinated region in the world with more than 99 percent of its population being fully vaccinated. Even more astonishingly, more than 40 percent of Gibraltarians have already received their booster."

https://fort-russ.com/2021/11/hard-data-shows-the-covid-vaccines-dont-work/

Although I'm not Andrew: I'm sorry, looks like fort-russ is fibbing again.

Gibraltar statistics, please note that the highest peaks are 4x higher in januari compared november 2021.

This means that they lie by omission. Although in the last 10 months they are correct, they most certainly are NOT! when compared to jan 2021.

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/gi

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 30, 2021, 06:35:29 PM
More

"For comparison, the chart also features the death rate in Sweden, a country which did not administer boosters during this period. Its graph remained largely unchanged.

Here are undeniable, documentable facts regarding the Pfizer vaccine:

Pfizer- induced antibodies last only for a few months.
Pfizer vaccines do not stop transmission of infection.
Vaccinated people are falling seriously ill and dying in large numbers. In many cases these rates are higher that the general vaccination rate in given populations.
From early data it would appear that Pfizer booster may be as ineffective as the original shots.
Not to be unfair to Pfizer, the facts regarding the other vaccines are very similar if not worse.

This is a massive vaccination debacle by any standard.

And we have not even mentioned serious injuries and deaths that have been caused by these vaccines.

The World Health Organization’s database, for example, records over two million potential COVID vaccines injuries in 2021.

According to an analysis of data recorded in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), “the total number of deaths associated with the COVID-19 vaccines is greater than the number of deaths associated with all other vaccines combined since the year 1990.

According to a US government whistleblower, nearly fifty thousand people died in the United States within two weeks of receiving the vaccines.

Amazingly, those responsible for this debacle are making record profits."


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/10/vasko-kohlmayer/peak-gaslighting-impenitent-profiteer-albert-bourla-of-pfizer-makes-the-most-ludicrous-claim-yet/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on November 30, 2021, 09:44:11 PM

Overall, we rate Lew Rockwell Questionable based on Extreme Right Bias, promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and failed fact checks.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lew-rockwell/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 30, 2021, 09:59:45 PM
^mhr7 is a bought and paid for deep state propagandist. Other than that he's extremely obtuse.

Notice he made no effort whatsoever to discredit the actual science, facts and figures presented. He just posts some bought and paid for Soros garbage.

It's nothing less than a word trick to try to silence discussion and silence critical thought. Pay no attention to propaganda.

mediabias "fact check". Bought and paid for disinformation paid for by Soros
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 01, 2021, 01:45:02 AM
More
Pfizer- induced antibodies last only for a few months.
False
Pfizer vaccines do not stop transmission of infection.
True, but lie by omission. They do prevent the spread in 95% of all cases, which is huge. Although not 100%.

Vaccinated people are falling seriously ill and dying in large numbers. In many cases these rates are higher that the general vaccination rate in given populations.
I'm sorry, various statistical websites show this to be a big huge lie.
who.int is a good start , worldometers.com another.

From early data it would appear that Pfizer booster may be as ineffective as the original shots.
Not to be unfair to Pfizer, the facts regarding the other vaccines are very similar if not worse.
False. again see websites with data.

And we have not even mentioned serious injuries and deaths that have been caused by these vaccines.
As opposed to serious injuries that last life-long caused by the coronavirus itself. Netherlands has seen a spike of at least 25% asthma patients that will never recover because of covid.

The World Health Organization’s database, for example, records over two million potential COVID vaccines injuries in 2021.
But none confirmed, only self-reporting idiots that try to discredit the vaccine.

According to an analysis of data recorded in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), “the total number of deaths associated with the COVID-19 vaccines is greater than the number of deaths associated with all other vaccines combined since the year 1990.
Vaers is a self-reporting medical website that needs to be vetted, validated and then entered into fact. So relying on Vaers alone is a huge misstake.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 03:03:24 AM
More
Pfizer- induced antibodies last only for a few months.
False
Pfizer vaccines do not stop transmission of infection.
True, but lie by omission. They do prevent the spread in 95% of all cases, which is huge. Although not 100%.

Vaccinated people are falling seriously ill and dying in large numbers. In many cases these rates are higher that the general vaccination rate in given populations.
I'm sorry, various statistical websites show this to be a big huge lie.
who.int is a good start , worldometers.com another.

From early data it would appear that Pfizer booster may be as ineffective as the original shots.
Not to be unfair to Pfizer, the facts regarding the other vaccines are very similar if not worse.
False. again see websites with data.

And we have not even mentioned serious injuries and deaths that have been caused by these vaccines.
As opposed to serious injuries that last life-long caused by the coronavirus itself. Netherlands has seen a spike of at least 25% asthma patients that will never recover because of covid.

The World Health Organization’s database, for example, records over two million potential COVID vaccines injuries in 2021.
But none confirmed, only self-reporting idiots that try to discredit the vaccine.

According to an analysis of data recorded in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), “the total number of deaths associated with the COVID-19 vaccines is greater than the number of deaths associated with all other vaccines combined since the year 1990.
Vaers is a self-reporting medical website that needs to be vetted, validated and then entered into fact. So relying on Vaers alone is a huge misstake.

1. Do you honestly believe that nearly 3 Million people would lie about their reaction to the vaccine in order to try to "discredit the vaccine"?

I don't believe that for a second. In fact I believe it is more likely that most people are embarrassed and don't report that they had a bad reaction.

If they are people who are more or less anti-vax, they would not submit to getting a vaccine in the first place. This just doesn't make sense to me and as I said, I don't believe it.

2. You say VAERS is a "self-reporting website that needs to be vetted" and therefore it isn't reliable, in response to the claim that there have been more deaths with Covid vaccines versus all vaccines combined since the year 1990.

Well sorry but people who died cannot self-report, therefore a Doctor or someone qualified is reporting these deaths, therefore your complaint about the system makes no sense at all.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 03:27:03 AM
(https://scontent.frix7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/262320734_10159424808218329_5147670168122480976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YuYUaLUFY_kAX_4X6ih&_nc_ht=scontent.frix7-1.fna&oh=e7d091071ff74ba9203e4ac238a5818a&oe=61AA1CFD)

They want you to keep taking booster shots until you have no blood left in your body just vaccine..  :laugh:

 :ROFL: :ROFL:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/omicron-metal-band-covid-variant-1264240/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 03:57:16 AM
Doctor who was disrespected on Twitter by a major Hospital and lost her privileges due to politics of that Hospital fights back by hiring a Lawyer and having a press conference. She has successfully treated approximately 2,000 patients with Ivermectin which has been approved by the FDA, contrary to false narratives pushed by the media.

 
Quote

"Her lawyer Steve Mitby told NBC News Monday, that Bowden, “is not peddling misinformation.”

Mitby described Bowden as a Stanford-trained physician who has treated more than 2,000 Covid-19 patients.

“She is helping her patients, through a combination of monoclonal antibodies and other drugs, to recover from COVID. Dr. Bowden’s proactive treatment has saved lives and prevented hospitalizations,” he said.

“Dr. Bowden also is not anti-vaccine as she has been falsely portrayed. Dr. Bowden has opposed vaccine mandates, especially when required by the government. That is not the same as opposing vaccines,” he added."


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspended-texas-doctor-promoted-ivermectin-covid-treatment-resigns-hos-rcna5833
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 01, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
.....
But none confirmed, only self-reporting idiots that try to discredit
...
Vaers is a self-reporting medical website that needs to be vetted, validated and then entered into fact. So relying on Vaers alone is a huge misstake.


I believe whichever side of the debate you are on, there will be plenty of internet self validation bias studies to be found.

I will say your *but none confirmed*
Statement regarding the WHOs own vaccine injury data, is statistically impossible.

You simply can't vaccinate  hundreds of millions of people and not have some adverse reactions and injuries within a small percentage of that population ,which is still significant.
This would be true regarding any vaccine for most any virus.

You also  statistically cant have none confirmed* ,so that's certainly an omission of what is certain to be factual.
Do you think every data point regarding this by  who ,or vaers  is unconfirmed?

That said,I think  adverse reactions statistically are  also quite likely in the small percentage realm of any other similar treatment.

But I do notice people tend to pick a side and gravitate naturally to only the points that support their view,its human nature amd I'm equally guilty.

I'm also not blind and was in Denver when they closed all  the initial  j&j vaccination centers as there where indeed too many adverse reactions and the emergency rooms were asking they stop.
They had more patients immediately post vaccine than covid patients.
If you dont believe that ,its ok.
But it did occur.

Its also likely an outlier and non inditictive of the vaccines* in general. It could well.have been placebo effect or just from.people highly stressed so reacted to any injection, especially a brand new one they were possibly hesitant about.

I do know history always repears,because we humans are the common denominator .

The initial polio vaccine program was a complete failure and lots of injuries.
A decade later one came out they was a revolution to world health.

In more recent history india had a program for polio vaccine regimens that was disaster  and they abandoned ot fir the more traditional version.

So I'll not pretend that all vaccination programs are safe amd fully vetted when there is confirmed history of thos not always being the case.

I certainly believe vaccines have had a huge impact positively in world health it's absolutely undeniable, and having been on most continents,
 I've likely had as many vaccinations as most anyone here,
 l wasnt always fully informed of what thehbwre ir the possibly side effects either ,that's just how it was.

This vaccine I'm not utterly opposed to ,but simply weigh the risk vs rewards in.my personal.situation of low covid risk,and made my choice.
That could change over time,just like vaccines have ;)


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 01, 2021, 09:27:38 AM
No, AJ, in terms of numbers, especially large ones, there are levels of significance. In the context the WHO is using they are probably referring to statistical significance. You are inferring, if I understood you correctly, that a single adverse event would be significant in the context of hundreds of millions of doses. Of course, that makes no sense.

The researchers will likely have followed a standardised protocol and they will be saying that the number of adverse reactions/deaths is so small as to not affect the value of the vaccinations.

We know that some people have suffered as a result of using the vaccines, but we also know that the hospitals are not full of people dying as a result of vaccination.

There's a difference between emotion and reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 01, 2021, 09:43:49 AM

The researchers will likely have followed a standardised protocol and they will be saying that the number of adverse reactions/deaths is so small as to not affect the value of the vaccinations.


Also of note, a number of the same conditions listed as possible adverse events are present in those that are infected with covid, in larger numbers than from vaccination.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 10:50:36 AM
https://www.wamc.org/2021-10-14/airline-pilots-push-back-on-vaccine-mandates

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/some-sheriffs-reject-biden-s-covid-vaccine-and-testing-mandate-attempt-of-tyranny/ar-AAOtoi9

https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/13654/20211019/more-public-and-private-employees-openly-resisting-biden-s-vaccine-mandate.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 01, 2021, 11:55:51 AM

The researchers will likely have followed a standardised protocol and they will be saying that the number of adverse reactions/deaths is so small as to not affect the value of the vaccinations.


Also of note, a number of the same conditions listed as possible adverse events are present in those that are infected with covid, in larger numbers than from vaccination.
Certainly.

I stated adverse reactions were likely statistically* not significant.(how cold are statistics?)

I also pointed out there is a history of vaccines being very very successful,
as well as a history of some vaccine programs that were not.
That's worth discussing? Especially since those vaccines faced longer term testing yet were still approved.

Polio was the low hanging fruit , I could name more.
Yet with *crickets* addressing that ,there is little point .


  To me thats worth  at least  some consideration,  especially when some weren't scraped in a timely fashion.

I quoted someone saying* none confirmed * regarding adverse reaction data by who and vaers.

There are certainly confirmed reactions in that data, they arnt merely antivaxers reporting as was implied.
Now whether the numbers are significant in relation to.the positives of vaccination  has obviously been determined by who and other health organizations or we wouldnt be having the discussion? :)

To your specific point, I had a friend with no comorbidities and fully vaccinated pass from.covid.
Its not statistically important,nor is it a good measure of making an informed health  choice regarding vaccination.
It is however ,confirmed  and should be part of the data overall.

UK has 80% vaccinated ? With an alleged efficacy of 80 to 90% in  preventing both transmission and mortality ,and a population with a decent percentage of natural.immunity and/or antibodies.


There really should be very little discussion within a month  or two of that being relality ,yet here we are....

And on a virus with a 0.016% (?) mortality rate.
(Mostly in elderly with comorbidities)

Uk last  nov daily  averaged 17000 covid cases and 460 deaths, this November in a mostly vaccinated population, and with significant natural immunity 40000 cases and 119 deaths.
In a  country were daily death rate in 67 million is  roughly 2 thousand(?) (again mostly elderly with comorbidities)

 Statistic significance*  seems rather cold both directions.no?


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 12:31:30 PM
Physicians Assistant states that the Hospital administration where she worked told her not to report Vaccine injuries.

https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/14085/20211129/new-york-physician-assistant-reveals-administrative-orders-to-stop-reporting-covid-vaccine-injuries.htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 01, 2021, 04:15:43 PM
^mhr7 is a bought and paid for deep state propagandist. Other than that he's extremely obtuse.

Notice he made no effort whatsoever to discredit the actual science, facts and figures presented. He just posts some bought and paid for Soros garbage.

It's nothing less than a word trick to try to silence discussion and silence critical thought. Pay no attention to propaganda.

mediabias "fact check". Bought and paid for disinformation paid for by Soros

If you don't want the vaccine then don't get it. Stop posting your bullshit and whining like a baby about the facts.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 01, 2021, 04:26:29 PM

Marcus Lamb, a co-founder and the CEO of the conservative Christian Daystar Television Network who vocally opposed Covid-19 vaccines, has died at 64, weeks after he contracted Covid-19, the network said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-vaccine-christian-broadcaster-marcus-224434365.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
^mhr7 is a bought and paid for deep state propagandist. Other than that he's extremely obtuse.

Notice he made no effort whatsoever to discredit the actual science, facts and figures presented. He just posts some bought and paid for Soros garbage.

It's nothing less than a word trick to try to silence discussion and silence critical thought. Pay no attention to propaganda.

mediabias "fact check". Bought and paid for disinformation paid for by Soros

If you don't want the vaccine then don't get it. Stop posting your bullshit and whining like a baby about the facts.

Says the crybaby disinformation specialist who doesn't have any facts, just bullshit propaganda.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 01, 2021, 04:57:16 PM

Marcus Lamb, a co-founder and the CEO of the conservative Christian Daystar Television Network who vocally opposed Covid-19 vaccines, has died at 64, weeks after he contracted Covid-19, the network said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-vaccine-christian-broadcaster-marcus-224434365.html

CDC says Roughly 4,100 have been hospitalized or died of Covid after taking the vaccine

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covid-breakthrough-cases-cdc-says-more-than-4100-people-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 01, 2021, 05:34:10 PM
From your article -

The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750

Out of the 196 million who've received the vaccine, that ain't much.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 02, 2021, 01:42:25 AM
From your article -

The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750

Out of the 196 million who've received the vaccine, that ain't much.

And the number of total individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 without vaccination is currently 1.000.000+ .... gee i wonder if vaccination helps.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 02, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
From your article -

The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750

Out of the 196 million who've received the vaccine, that ain't much.

And the number of total individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 without vaccination is currently 1.000.000+ .... gee i wonder if vaccination helps.

Seriously, no matter what side of this you are on, or somewhere in the middle, to believe a stat of 750 is somehow  accurate for overall deaths by covid19  amoung vaccinated individuals is beyond silly. :'(


1. You possibly arn't catching a distinction between those possibly dying as a direct result  following getting  one of the vaccines,
vs   someone who is vaccinated, catching and dying of Covid.

Or it's a stat pulled put of thin air,as it has no bearing on reality if it's meant to include the latter.

Covid mortality has always been predominantly biased to elder with comorbidities. That's typical.of any respiratory virus
That bias did   not change once a population has a high percent of vaccinated.

It's still going to mostly effect elderly with comorbidities vaccinated, or not.
Yes it might reduce mortality within  that group of vaccinated.


But far far more have sadly passed vaccinated than 750.

Unfortunately my friend was one of the many that have,and he had no comorbidities.

 
Your point is far better made by showing UK last  November  average daily cases of 17000, with 460 average deaths , and this november with 42000 cases and 119 average daily deaths.

Those stats can't show direct correlation to vaccination or transmission,but in a population with a decent percentage of  natural.immunity and a quite high vaccination rate , it does imply success at reducing mortality.



The overall mortality rate was  up about 8% in UK midsummer.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/july2021



As far as the world,
About 7000 average daily  covid related deaths last nov ,and about 7000 average daily deaths this november.





 





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 02, 2021, 12:42:07 PM

Covid mortality has always been predominantly biased to elder with comorbidities. That's typical.of any respiratory virus
That bias did   not change once a population has a high percent of vaccinated.

It's still going to mostly effect elderly with comorbidities vaccinated, or not.
Yes it might reduce mortality within  that group of vaccinated.


AJ, you are correct that older folks have a higher death rate, due to weaker immune systems. Despite this, 50 thousand Americans under 50 have died.  Many of those could still be with us today had they been vaccinated.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

Italy has a very high rate of 74% fully vaccinated.  The US 54%. 

The differences in deaths is startling and quite visible in the last waves of infections shown the graphs below. I suspect it will be even more apparent by the time Spring comes around. Italy, over the last 7 days has less than half the population adjusted deaths as the US does. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/SKBpw8T3/Screen-Shot-2021-12-02-at-20-20-34.png)

Sorry to hear about your friend that died.  There are indications that some genetic factors are in play that may make some healthy folks more susceptible.  Of course, testing the entire population for these genetic markers would not be feasible.  Much easier to vaccinate everyone, which also reduces transmission.

Another factor to consider is the combination of influenza and COVID.  Someone might not die of either, but may well die if infected with both at the same time.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 02, 2021, 01:04:08 PM
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on December 02, 2021, 02:44:45 PM
From your article -

The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination is 750

Out of the 196 million who've received the vaccine, that ain't much.

And the number of total individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 without vaccination is currently 1.000.000+ .... gee i wonder if vaccination helps.

Seriously, no matter what side of this you are on, or somewhere in the middle, to believe a stat of 750 is somehow  accurate for overall deaths by covid19  amoung vaccinated individuals is beyond silly. :'(

That number was taken from Contrarian's posted article, in case you missed that. That's what I was commenting on, didn't say I believed it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 02, 2021, 06:40:42 PM
Quote from: BC

Another factor to consider is the combination of influenza and COVID.  Someone might not die of either, but may well die if infected with both at the same time.

I was tested and  had influenza B during this, those things certainly dint disappear.
However they seemingly did in the USA reporting of cause of death.
All.of a sudden the annual average of 60k deaths by influenza A and B disappeared.

It's why I feel  it was important  for governments to be more transparent ,they choose to play the  be more efficient card.
While understandable,  it fueled distrust.

As far as 50,000 under 50, yes that's of course sad, however many also had comorbitidies , often tenfold,, it's a sadly a country of obese and diabetic at very young ages, so it's a  very large factor.
If you take those with comorbitidies out of the equation,  are we coldly back at numvers on significant statistics level in a population of 350 million? Like the ones that had adverse effects?





Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 03, 2021, 01:18:01 AM

I was tested and  had influenza B during this, those things certainly dint disappear.
However they seemingly did in the USA reporting of cause of death.
All.of a sudden the annual average of 60k deaths by influenza A and B disappeared.

Influenza didn't disappear, but indeed was suppressed as the same measures, i.e. lockdown, masking etc., also reduced transmission.  Ditto for other common communicable diseases except maybe STD's?  This year no lockdowns and we'll probably have a heavy influenza season as well.  It's already starting:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

Quote
It's why I feel  it was important  for governments to be more transparent ,they choose to play the  be more efficient card.
While understandable,  it fueled distrust.

As outlined in largely ignored emergency plans covering pandemics, clear, concise and on point communications is key, along with appointed official spokespersons to transmit the information.  From the beginning, we in the US did not have that.  Everyone was an 'expert' with a loud microphone, and the message was very conflicted, disjointed, erroneous, and dangerous.  Other countries fared better in this aspect.

https://www.cdc.gov/eis/field-epi-manual/chapters/Communicating-Investigation.html

Quote
As far as 50,000 under 50, yes that's of course sad, however many also had comorbitidies , often tenfold,, it's a sadly a country of obese and diabetic at very young ages, so it's a  very large factor.
If you take those with comorbitidies out of the equation,  are we coldly back at numvers on significant statistics level in a population of 350 million? Like the ones that had adverse effects?

The list of co-morbidities that can affect outcome is long and includes many conditions that one cannot say "well hey.. it's their fault anyway for being (insert condition), so no matter to me. They were gonna die anyway"  Also the genetic factors I mentioned are in play that are correlated with outcomes, are described described in peer reviewed publications, studies and other scientific papers and articles.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01827-w

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/07/20/more-genetic-clues-to-covid-19-susceptibility-and-severity/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00422-9/fulltext

BTW, AJ, thanks for approaching this topic with constructive discourse ISO unfounded mis and disinformation. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 05:20:02 AM
13 stillborn babies in 24 hours at a Hospital?

Quote

"November 11, 2021, a rally formed outside of Lions Gate Hospital in North Vancouver, British Columbia (BC). The group was there to call attention to an unthinkable tragedy: 13 babies were reportedly stillborn at the hospital in a period of 24 hours. All of their mothers had received a COVID-19 injection.

Vancouver Coastal Health has disputed the reports of stillbirths at Lions Gate Hospital, stating, “There is no truth to this claim … There has been no notable change to the incidence of stillbirths in the VCH region throughout the COVID-19 pandemic.” 2

However, after speaking with police outside of the hospital, Dr. Daniel Nagase and Dr. Mel Bruchet started an official investigation, and Nagase launched an official complaint with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police against executives at the College of Physicians & Surgeons of BC, alleging conflicts of interest influencing their policies, decisions and statements made to the people of British Columbia." 3

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/01/sudden-spike-in-stillbirths-newborn-deaths-and-menstrual-disorders/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 03, 2021, 05:57:31 AM
Contrasting information regarding stillbirths:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fact-check-no-vaccinated-women-didn-t-suffer-13-stillbirths-over-24-hours-at-a-b-c-hospital-1.5679596

VANCOUVER - Online rumours claiming that vaccinated pregnant women suffered 13 stillbirths over a period of just 24 hours at a North Vancouver, B.C., hospital are false, health officials have confirmed.

Study referenced in the article

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7047e1.htm?s_cid=mm7047e1_w
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 06:16:30 AM
Dr Vernon Coleman “When I heard that NHS staff in the UK were threatening to go on strike, my first thought was to wonder how many lives that would save”


https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/09/22/dr-vernon-coleman-when-i-heard-that-nhs-staff-in-the-uk-were-threatening-to-go-on-strike-my-first-thought-was-to-wonder-how-many-lives-that-would-save/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 06:22:22 AM
Contrasting information regarding stillbirths:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fact-check-no-vaccinated-women-didn-t-suffer-13-stillbirths-over-24-hours-at-a-b-c-hospital-1.5679596

VANCOUVER - Online rumours claiming that vaccinated pregnant women suffered 13 stillbirths over a period of just 24 hours at a North Vancouver, B.C., hospital are false, health officials have confirmed.

Study referenced in the article

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7047e1.htm?s_cid=mm7047e1_w


Data Used to Support COVID-19 Shot in Pregnant Women Flawed

"In a rapid communication from the Institute for Pure and Applied Knowledge (IPAK), Aleisha Brock, Ph.D. of New Zealand, and Simon Thornley, Ph.D., a senior lecturer in the section of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of Auckland, explained that the NEJM study “presents falsely reassuring statistics related to the risk of spontaneous abortion in early pregnancy, since the majority of women in the calculation were exposed to the mRNA product after the outcome period was defined (20 weeks’ gestation).”11

When the risk of spontaneous abortion, or miscarriage, was recalculated based on the cohort that was injected prior to 20 weeks’ gestation, the incidence of miscarriage was seven to eight times higher than the original study indicated, with a cumulative incidence of miscarriage ranging from 82% to 91%. According to the IPAK report:12

“The study indicates that at least 81.9% (≥ 104/127) experienced spontaneous abortion following mRNA exposure before 20 weeks, and 92.3% (96/104) of spontaneous abortions occurred before 13 weeks’ gestation. This is a very high proportion of pregnancy loss observed in those exposed to the mRNA vaccination before 20 weeks’ gestation, ranging from 81.9–91.2% …

The authors’ interpretation of no difference in the observed incidence of pregnancy loss in those who received their first mRNA vaccine before 20 weeks’ gestation compared to baseline must be questioned.

In light of these findings, key policy decisions have been made using unreliable and questionable data. We conclude that the claims made using these data on the safety of exposure of women in early pregnancy to mRNA-based vaccines to prevent COVID-19 are unwarranted and recommend that those policy decisions be revisited.”

link above
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 03, 2021, 07:13:43 AM
More contrast to your Data Used to Support COVID-19 Shot in Pregnant Women Flawed link.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126906088/covid19-a-paper-on-vaccination-in-pregnancy-coauthored-by-simon-thornley-has-been-panned-by-experts-around-the-world

Quote
It was published in a journal founded and edited by an American anti-vaccination campaigner, who is a prominent advocate for the debunked theory that MMR vaccines can cause autism. On its website, the journal says its papers, including this one, are peer-reviewed. The journal did not respond to questions from Stuff about its peer-review processes.

Quote
Thornley and Brock’s paper is said to be a reanalysis of an influential study published in April by the Centre for Disease Control (CDC), which was based on a database of pregnant people given an mRNA Covid-19 vaccine between December 2020 and February 2021.

That study found the rate of miscarriages among the vaccinated group was within the expected range.

Several months after it was published, the study was corrected to note it could not be used to calculate specific miscarriage rates, given the study period lasted three months and could only include outcomes for people who were vaccinated late in their pregnancies. Its recommendations did not change.

Here is the link to the correction.  The authors of the study referenced in your link obviously did not take into account the correction.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMx210016?query=recirc_curatedRelated_article
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 03, 2021, 08:53:09 AM

I was tested and  had influenza B during this, those things certainly dint disappear.
However they seemingly did in the USA reporting of cause of death.
All.of a sudden the annual average of 60k deaths by influenza A and B disappeared.

Influenza didn't disappear, but indeed was suppressed as the same measures, i.e. lockdown, masking etc., also reduced transmission.  Ditto for other common communicable diseases except maybe STD's?  This year no lockdowns and we'll probably have a heavy influenza season as well.  It's already starting:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

Quote
It's why I feel  it was important  for governments to be more transparent ,they choose to play the  be more efficient card.
While understandable,  it fueled distrust.

As outlined in largely ignored emergency plans covering pandemics, clear, concise and on point communications is key, along with appointed official spokespersons to transmit the information.  From the beginning, we in the US did not have that.  Everyone was an 'expert' with a loud microphone, and the message was very conflicted, disjointed, erroneous, and dangerous.  Other countries fared better in this aspect.

https://www.cdc.gov/eis/field-epi-manual/chapters/Communicating-Investigation.html

Quote
As far as 50,000 under 50, yes that's of course sad, however many also had comorbitidies , often tenfold,, it's a sadly a country of obese and diabetic at very young ages, so it's a  very large factor.
If you take those with comorbitidies out of the equation,  are we coldly back at numvers on significant statistics level in a population of 350 million? Like the ones that had adverse effects?

The list of co-morbidities that can affect outcome is long and includes many conditions that one cannot say "well hey.. it's their fault anyway for being (insert condition), so no matter to me. They were gonna die anyway"  Also the genetic factors I mentioned are in play that are correlated with outcomes, are described described in peer reviewed publications, studies and other scientific papers and articles.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01827-w

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/07/20/more-genetic-clues-to-covid-19-susceptibility-and-severity/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00422-9/fulltext

BTW, AJ, thanks for approaching this topic with constructive discourse ISO unfounded mis and disinformation.

I think genetics plays a role .
I think they will define this more with time.


The Navajo as example have been hit harder than should be expected.

And as such have pushed vaccination really reallybhsrd and really closed off the reservation in north west Arizona more stringently,and tried to enforce protocols .


I mean it's not hard to keep in mind Europeans brought disastrous illness way back when.

If I remember correctly as far back as Columbus they had revisited an island in the caribe and noted the population was gone ,compared to the.year they visited  prior and pondered at it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 03, 2021, 09:44:54 AM

I think genetics plays a role .
I think they will define this more with time.


Indeed. We still have a lot to learn about the COVID family.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 11:00:37 AM

I think genetics plays a role .
I think they will define this more with time.


Indeed. We still have a lot to learn about the COVID family.


Not as much as how much we have to learn about natural immunity, which trumps any and all diseases.

There's not going to be peace on earth until the losers who control secret societies, stop trying to play God.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 03, 2021, 11:03:28 AM
There's not going to be peace on earth until the losers who control secret societies, stop trying to play God.

Typical reply from someone with an empty hand that only contains the fallacy "if you can't disprove it, I must be right"

You can tell me all day long that your dog talks, that you heard him and the only proof you offer is that I can't prove otherwise.  Funny...

Referring to you and your secret Q and other disinformation gods?

Look in the mirror for a change.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 11:08:40 AM
There's not going to be peace on earth until the losers who control secret societies, stop trying to play God.

Typical reply from someone with an empty hand that only contains the fallacy "if you can't disprove it, I must be right"

Referring to you and your secret Q and other disinformation gods?



You're like a wind up toy who just repeats what the media tells him. I am not a fan of Q either.

Why not try stopping making suppositions and stay on topic, if you're capable of it?

The only empty hand is the hand of the person who believes in destroying the natural immunity of human beings which took eons to create.

As such you not only have an empty hand, you have an empty soul.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 03, 2021, 11:44:43 AM

Not as much as how much we have to learn about natural immunity, which trumps any and all diseases.

Man, your think must be really deficient.

You are so entrenched in this anti vaxx propaganda that you fail to think about what is said. This is easy to rebutt so i wont. Think man, THINK
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 11:58:25 AM

Not as much as how much we have to learn about natural immunity, which trumps any and all diseases.

Man, your think must be really deficient.

You are so entrenched in this anti vaxx propaganda that you fail to think about what is said. This is easy to rebutt so i wont. Think man, THINK

Thx Mark.

You are apparently willing to become aguinea pig for an experimental vaccine, one which is moving the whole of humanity away from what it really means to be a human, to the trans humanist agenda of control.

I am not. You have made your choice and I am making my choice. That's all there is to it.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 03, 2021, 12:05:41 PM

Not as much as how much we have to learn about natural immunity, which trumps any and all diseases.

Man, your think must be really deficient.

You are so entrenched in this anti vaxx propaganda that you fail to think about what is said. This is easy to rebutt so i wont. Think man, THINK

Thx Mark.

You are apparently willing to become aguinea pig for an experimental vaccine, one which is moving the whole of humanity away from what it really means to be a human, to the trans humanist agenda of control.

I am not. You have made your choice and I am making my choice. That's all there is to it.  :coffeeread:

Ok i agree with you that natural immunity trumps any vaccine. But it does not and can not replace vaccines for obvious reasons. T-h-i-n-k
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 03, 2021, 12:14:48 PM

Why not try stopping making suppositions and stay on topic, if you're capable of it?



Quote
There's not going to be peace on earth until the losers who control secret societies, stop trying to play God.

Good for the goose not good for the gander?  Is your statement without supposition?  Is it really on topic?

Yeah, still funny.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 03:23:08 PM
There's not going to be peace on earth until the losers who control secret societies, stop trying to play God.

Typical reply from someone with an empty hand that only contains the fallacy "if you can't disprove it, I must be right"

You can tell me all day long that your dog talks, that you heard him and the only proof you offer is that I can't prove otherwise.  Funny...

Referring to you and your secret Q and other disinformation gods?

Look in the mirror for a change.

I wasn't speaking to you initially but seeing you want to keep it up,

go ahead and take your own advice.

Being a vampire without a soul you won't see anything.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 03, 2021, 03:25:33 PM

Not as much as how much we have to learn about natural immunity, which trumps any and all diseases.

Man, your think must be really deficient.

You are so entrenched in this anti vaxx propaganda that you fail to think about what is said. This is easy to rebutt so i wont. Think man, THINK

Thx Mark.

You are apparently willing to become aguinea pig for an experimental vaccine, one which is moving the whole of humanity away from what it really means to be a human, to the trans humanist agenda of control.

I am not. You have made your choice and I am making my choice. That's all there is to it.  :coffeeread:

Ok i agree with you that natural immunity trumps any vaccine. But it does not and can not replace vaccines for obvious reasons. T-h-i-n-k


I have thought about it, a lot. I decided not to submit myself to experimental stuff at this stage.

In fact I think it's dishonest to call what they have produced a "vaccine". They're not; but they are still experimental.


This guy is a former VP of Pfizer, he probably knows a lot about what he's talking about.

Quote

"2. At some point in manufacturing, someone or some entity actively modified what was being filled into vials, and it was this which resulted in extreme skew of clinical safety profile.

There has been so much truly awful behaviour of “elites” that I’m simply not willing (as I would have historically) to dismiss the possibility that this has been done on purpose."

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/11/01/dr-mike-yeadon-just-when-you-though-things-couldnt-get-any-worse/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 03, 2021, 11:59:00 PM
For a millionth time, the vaccines do not stop infection nor prevent transmission!

I know that from family experience....... both vaccinated twice and still got infected! Thank God both are fully recovered...... :nod:

Anyone promoting vaccination is clearly on WEF's ( World Economic Forum) payroll !

I just read, in another site and copied this comments below for you to read.

THE REAL AGENDA: Leading doctor says covid “vaccines” are intentionally designed to reduce world population

Dr. Shankara Chetty, a South African family doctor who is credited with improving early treatment for the Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19), says that the goal of the mass “vaccination” program is to “control and kill off a large proportion of our population without anyone suspecting that we were poisoned.”

In a recent statement, Dr. Chetty explained that the dying process provoked by the injections was designed in such a way as to be untraceable. People will start to get sick from this or that, and the symptoms will be so wide ranging that it will be difficult to definitively peg them on the shots.

“The deaths that are meant to follow the vaccinations will never be able to be pinned on the poison,” he said. “They will be too diverse, there will be too many, and they will be in too broad a timeframe for us to understand that we have been poisoned.”

Dr. Chetty claims to have successfully treated more than 7,000 Chinese Virus patients “without a single hospitalization or death.” He is also keenly aware of the government’s censorship campaign against the early treatment protocols he provides to his patients.

“I think the perspective around what is happening is vitally important,” Dr. Chetty explained during a Zoom conference call. “We need to understand what the aim is. Everyone knows that there are inconsistencies, that there’s coercion, but we need to understand why. Why is it there?”

Jab spike protein is the “pathogen … causing all the death in covid illness


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 04, 2021, 03:16:40 AM

I wasn't speaking to you initially but seeing you want to keep it up,

go ahead and take your own advice.

Being a vampire without a soul you won't see anything.

Is this board for discourse, or is it your personal blog?  Your problem seems to be that you cannot substantiate what you post, or what little substantiation you do provide does not hold up to even cursory scrutiny.  My adding contrast in the form of substantiated information bothers you?  Your problem, not mine.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 04, 2021, 03:20:11 AM
For a millionth time, the vaccines do not stop infection nor prevent transmission!

Sure, we all know that.

What we also know is that the vaccines reduce transmission and infection, along with dramatically reducing hospitalization and death.

Pretty easy to grasp or?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 04, 2021, 05:21:14 AM
For a millionth time, the vaccines do not stop infection nor prevent transmission!

Sure, we all know that.

What we also know is that the vaccines reduce transmission and infection, along with dramatically reducing hospitalization and death.

Pretty easy to grasp or?

As far as I am aware the infections in many countries has not reduced dramatically as you say!

Been selective of my comments it does not help you to give the right answer....

You forgot to include this: "Anyone promoting vaccination is clearly on WEF's ( World Economic Forum) payroll !"

It is very clear you ignore it because all those rich people have invested heavily in Pharmaceutical companies.......and they didn't do that for charity.......

Just for your information I am not in the mood to get involved with you in any debate...... because ignoring  certain facts ....... you do not reply to the original fact, that Vaccination do not provide full immunity, like the flu jab, which took several years to be perfected and safe, unlike the current experiment vaccinations for covid, so you should not have to have any more , like 3 -4 -5 etc. Sorry personally I don't want to be an experiment animal for them to make Billions.

Soon Phizer will advertise buy one and get a packet of Viagra for free.........

End of the day.... just check the various statistics...... and make comparisons between countries.

Have a nice day!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 04, 2021, 06:27:26 AM

Just for your information I am not in the mood to get involved with you in any debate......

I see.. so is RUA your blog space as well, where response and contrasting information is discouraged, or is RUA a place for discourse?  These 'not in the mood' or 'don't want to get involved' replies are typically associated with folks that cannot substantiate what they post.  Remember this reading below:

Quote
because ignoring  certain facts ....... you do not reply to the original fact, that Vaccination do not provide full immunity, like the flu jab.

Here, you err.  The flu jab does not provide full immunity.

Quote
CDC conducts studies each year to determine how well influenza (flu) vaccines protect against flu. While vaccine effectiveness (VE) can vary, recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to those used to make flu vaccines.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

Quote
, which took several years to be perfected and safe,

Just about any can have adverse events, even the influenza vaccine. 
https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/tools/Influenza_Vaccine_rates_information_sheet.pdf

Quote
unlike the current experiment vaccinations for covid, so you should not have to have any more , like 3 -4 -5 etc.

I get vaccinated each year for influenza.  When I was a child and in the military I had several vaccines that required boosters.  You can google for vaccines that require boosters.

Quote
Sorry personally I don't want to be an experiment animal for them to make Billions.

Yet the cost is very comparable to that of influenza vaccines.  As for experimental, how many billions of doses have been given over the last year?  In fact, COVID vaccines are likely one of the most studied vaccines around.
Title: Coronavirus & Lefty solutions
Post by: 2tallbill on December 04, 2021, 11:06:27 AM
What we also know is that the vaccines reduce transmission and infection, along with dramatically reducing hospitalization and death.

Pretty easy to grasp or?

I have two big problems (more than two but these are my big ones) with how the lefty
politicians and team Biden are treating vaccinations.

1. They don't care if you've already had the virus and recovered from it. You still
have to get the vaccine or lose your _____________ (enter lefty threat here)

2. DNC/Team Biden don't give a f#ck whether the illegals crossing the border are vaccinated
or not. 


Fact Checker: Are unvaccinated migrants ‘part of the problem’?
https://www.thegazette.com/government-politics/fact-checker-are-unvaccinated-migrants-part-of-the-problem/



ICE ramps up vaccination of immigrants in U.S. custody, but thousands have refused
By Camilo Montoya-Galvez
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-ramps-up-vaccination-of-immigrants-in-u-s-custody-but-thousands-have-refused/



Homer Venters, a member of President Biden's COVID-19 health equity task force, said ICE
has another "tool" to protect immigrants in its custody during the pandemic.

"Probably the most important thing that ICE can consider is release, because even with more efforts toward vaccination, being in a detention setting increases your risk of contracting COVID and it increases your risk of death," he said.


Thousands of detained undocumented immigrants are refusing to get vaccinated
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/undocumented-immigrants-refuse-covid-vaccine/67-a224469f-4446-4940-bef0-fdb261b582e1


30 percent of illegal immigrants in border facilities refused COVID vaccine
There have been nine COVID deaths and 20,000 coronavirus cases among those detained
by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Axios reported, citing numbers from the agency.
https://nypost.com/2021/07/15/30-percent-of-migrants-in-border-facilities-refused-covid-shot-report/


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 11:06:44 AM

I wasn't speaking to you initially but seeing you want to keep it up,

go ahead and take your own advice.

Being a vampire without a soul you won't see anything.

Is this board for discourse, or is it your personal blog?  Your problem seems to be that you cannot substantiate what you post, or what little substantiation you do provide does not hold up to even cursory scrutiny.  My adding contrast in the form of substantiated information bothers you?  Your problem, not mine.

You are the one with a thin skin who keeps getting his/her panties in a bunch.  :laugh:

And what do you add, except for big government/big Pharma bought and paid for propaganda?

Not much, but keep posting if it makes you happy. Funny indeed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 11:13:09 AM
What we also know is that the vaccines reduce transmission and infection, along with dramatically reducing hospitalization and death.

Pretty easy to grasp or?

I have two big problems (more than two but these are my big ones) with how the lefty
politicians and team Biden are treating vaccinations.

1. They don't care if you've already had the virus and recovered from it. You still
have to get the vaccine or lose your _____________ (enter lefty threat here)

2. DNC/Team Biden don't give a f#ck whether the illegals crossing the border are vaccinated
or not. 


Fact Checker: Are unvaccinated migrants ‘part of the problem’?
https://www.thegazette.com/government-politics/fact-checker-are-unvaccinated-migrants-part-of-the-problem/



ICE ramps up vaccination of immigrants in U.S. custody, but thousands have refused

By Camilo Montoya-Galvez

August 13, 2021 / 3:25 PM / CBS News

Amid rising infections, the Biden administration has stepped up efforts to vaccinate immigrants in U.S. government custody against the coronavirus, but thousands of detainees have refused vaccination, according to federal data shared with Congress and obtained by CBS News.

As of this week, 22,000 immigrants detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) had received at least one shot of a COVID-19 vaccine — a 167% increase from early July, when 8,221 doses had been administered. Six thousand immigrants in ICE custody have so far declined to be vaccinated, according to the figures.

The increased vaccination efforts — and the significant refusal rate — come as coronavirus infections continue to surge inside ICE detention facilities, where the detainee population has ballooned to 25,000, a 70% increase since the start of the Biden administration.

In the past six weeks, ICE has reported over 5,000 new coronavirus cases among detainees, according to an analysis of agency data. As of Friday, nearly 1,400 detainees were being monitored or isolated after testing positive for the virus.

Since the start of the pandemic, ICE has reported over 24,000 COVID-19 infections among immigrants in its custody, as well as 10 coronavirus-related deaths. Earlier this month, Elba Maria Centeno Briones, a 37-year-old asylum-seeker from Nicaragua, died in ICE custody after testing positive for the coronavirus.

ICE confirmed the figures obtained by CBS News, saying that over 20,000 vaccinations had been administered to detainees as of August 8. The agency said 5,958 immigrants in ICE detention facilities have refused vaccination as of August 6.

"ICE remains committed to applying (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) guidance and providing vaccine education that ensures those in our care and custody can make an informed choice during this global pandemic," Corey Price, who oversees ICE's detention and deportation division, said in a statement to CBS News.

Vaccination inside ICE detention centers increased after Judge Jesus Bernal of the U.S. District Court in Los Angeles directed the agency in late June to offer vaccines to all detained immigrants with chronic medical conditions or those over the age of 55 — a plan government lawyers initially said was "not logistically possible."

During the spring, ICE was relying on states to provide coronavirus vaccines to immigrants held in its sprawling immigration detention system. In July, ICE received a federal allocation of 10,000 Johnson & Johnson vaccines from the Veterans Health Administration.

Advocates for immigrants and public health experts have criticized ICE's vaccination campaign, denouncing it as slow and inconsistent given the ample supply of doses in the U.S. They also said the initial decision to rely on state vaccine supplies hindered detainee inoculation since each state sets different allocation priorities.

Homer Venters, an epidemiologist who specializes on the health of incarcerated individuals, said the increased inoculation rate among ICE detainees represents an "improvement" from the slow vaccination efforts in the spring. But Venters expressed concern about the number of detainees declining to be vaccinated and their reasons for doing so.

"Often what I hear and see from patients is that there will be big, large-scale offerings, where a whole housing area will be told, 'take it or leave it,'" Venters, who has inspected ICE detention facilities during the pandemic, told CBS News. "That is one approach that results in some people getting vaccinated. But there are a lot of people who just have basic questions about the vaccine, the safety or about their own health that require counseling."

To quell vaccine misinformation and fear, Venters said immigrants in ICE detention should be allowed to have one-on-one sessions with doctors and community advocates. They should also receive information about the benefits of the vaccine in languages they understand, he noted.

"Just like in the community, when somebody is taking a medicine, when someone has a history of some sort of allergic reaction or just when they don't know, they need to sit down and talk to somebody that has the knowledge and that they trust — and that's difficult in immigration detention," Venters said.

Citing "significant vaccine resistance" among ICE detainees, Patrick Walsh, a court-appointed special monitor, asked Bernal, the federal judge in California, to order the agency to provide every vulnerable immigrant in detention a doctor's letter outlining the importance of getting vaccinated.

Homer Venters, a member of President Biden's COVID-19 health equity task force, said ICE
has another "tool" to protect immigrants in its custody during the pandemic.

"Probably the most important thing that ICE can consider is release, because even with more efforts toward vaccination, being in a detention setting increases your risk of contracting COVID and it increases your risk of death," he said.


Thousands of detained undocumented immigrants are refusing to get vaccinated
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/undocumented-immigrants-refuse-covid-vaccine/67-a224469f-4446-4940-bef0-fdb261b582e1


Well said Bill.

Don't forget the other whopping contradiction, the fact that Postal employees are exempt from getting a vaccine, yet Biden expects private companies to enforce his tyranny.

This is clearly a political payoff, just as allowing illegals to not be vaccinated is a political payoff.

BC prefers to ignore the obvious contradictions in the entire mess, the biggest one being that those who had Covid already have phenomenal immunity and should not be required to get a leaky non-vaccine, which is nothing less than an unproven mess of poisons such as graphene.

We who believe in Liberty, believe that if the BC's of the world want to take the jab, let them by all means!

But stop trying to eliminate low-cost treatments such as hydroxychloroquin and Ivermectin, and stop allowing FB to behave as the US version of Pravda!!

And finally, no totalitarian mandates of vaccines!
Title: Re: Coronavirus & Lefty solutions
Post by: 2tallbill on December 04, 2021, 11:23:38 AM

Don't forget the other whopping contradiction, the fact that Postal employees are exempt from getting a vaccine, yet Biden expects private companies to enforce his tyranny.

This is clearly a political payoff, just as allowing illegals to not be vaccinated is a political payoff.

BC prefers to ignore the obvious contradictions in the entire mess, the biggest one being that those who had Covid already have phenomenal immunity and should not be required to get a leaky non-vaccine, which is nothing less than an unproven mess of poisons such as graphene.

We who believe in Liberty, believe that if the BC's of the world want to take the jab, let them by all means!

But stop trying to eliminate low-cost treatments such as hydroxychloroquin and Ivermectin, and stop allowing FB to behave as the US version of Pravda!!

And finally, no totalitarian mandates of vaccines!

I am looking to see if I can spot a trend in postal workers political contributions.

National Assn of Letter Carriers           $509K to Democrats
American Postal Workers Union            $245K to Democrats
National Rural Letter Carriers Assn    $64K to Democrats
National Postal Mail Handlers Union    $78K to Democrats
United Postmasters & Managers of America    $28K to Democrats
National Assn of Postal Supervisors    $39K to Democrats

Source
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=L1500

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 11:27:43 AM
For a millionth time, the vaccines do not stop infection nor prevent transmission!

Sure, we all know that.

What we also know is that the vaccines reduce transmission and infection, along with dramatically reducing hospitalization and death.

Pretty easy to grasp or?

Correction.

Sane people know that, people like you do not know that.

Never before in the history of the World has an experimental mess of poison been released during an alleged pandemic.

Throughout the course of history, these things have been allowed to play themselves out, and years later was a legitimate vaccine, after years of proper testing, released.

Pretty easy to grasp? Apparently not.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/mass-vaccination-during-pandemic-a-historic-blunder-nobel-laureate-luc-montagnier/ar-AAKmnJr
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on December 04, 2021, 11:28:51 AM
This is clearly a political payoff, just as allowing illegals to not be vaccinated is a political payoff.

And finally, no totalitarian mandates of vaccines!

Wait a minute, Biden has been very, very tough on Cuban illegal immigration.

Biden tells fleeing Cubans to get lost
https://nypost.com/2021/07/22/biden-tells-fleeing-cubans-to-get-lost-while-flooding-the-southern-border/


Amnesty-happy Biden won’t welcome Cuban refugees
https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor-joecks/victor-joecks-amnesty-happy-biden-wont-welcome-cuban-refugees-2401802/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 11:29:46 AM
This is clearly a political payoff, just as allowing illegals to not be vaccinated is a political payoff.

And finally, no totalitarian mandates of vaccines!

Wait a minute, Biden has been very, very tough on Cuban illegal immigration.

Biden tells fleeing Cubans to get lost
https://nypost.com/2021/07/22/biden-tells-fleeing-cubans-to-get-lost-while-flooding-the-southern-border/

Because Cubans historically vote Republican. You know that.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 04, 2021, 12:03:13 PM
Hard Data Shows the COVID Vaccines Don’t Work

The last several months have seen a heated debate about the effectiveness of the vaccines that are being currently administered against Covid-19.

The question on many people’s minds is: Do these pharmaceuticals work?

Both sides tend to feel quite strongly about their position which gives rise to a great deal of emotion as the debate goes on.

The good news is that, being nearly a year into the vast vaccination enterprise, we now possess sufficient data to determine whether the shots are effective or not.

As we know, the objective of vaccination is to eliminate or significantly reduce the incidence of the targeted disease. If a vaccine works, then in a highly vaccinated population we will see either complete elimination of the disease or a significant decrease of its incidence.

Since it is usually not practicable to achieve a 100 percent inoculation rate, the question is what is the vaccination level that will either bring the disease under control or eliminate it altogether?

This level is sometimes referred to as “herd immunity.” We were told at first by experts, most notably Dr. Anthony Fauci, that the vaccination rate of 60 to 70 percent would confer herd immunity in regard to Covid 19.

READ MORE HERE: Hard Data Shows the COVID Vaccines Don’t Work (https://www.globalresearch.ca/hard-data-shows-covid-vaccines-dont-work/5763136)

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 12:38:49 PM
Wiz I posted that article upthread. Maybe it will be read this time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 04, 2021, 02:39:42 PM

Correction.

Sane people know that, people like you do not know that.

Never before in the history of the World has an experimental mess of poison been released during an alleged pandemic.

Throughout the course of history, these things have been allowed to play themselves out, and years later was a legitimate vaccine, after years of proper testing, released.

Pretty easy to grasp? Apparently not.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/mass-vaccination-during-pandemic-a-historic-blunder-nobel-laureate-luc-montagnier/ar-AAKmnJr

Luc Montagnier certainly has a right to voice his opinion, no better than yours or mine.  Does he participate in any COVID studies or has he submitted any research papers on COVID for peer review?  If so, do point me to them, otherwise this goes into the discourse fallacy box labeled Appeal to Authority. 

On what basis do you believe his opinion?  Just because he says what you want to believe? At 89 is he doing any research at all? The same year he shared the Nobel prize, the first DNA sequence of a female was done.  Nothing like the technology and state of science today.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 04, 2021, 03:00:27 PM
Hard Data Shows the COVID Vaccines Don’t Work

Your 'Hard Data' focuses entirely on reported infections and says absolutely nothing about the rate of hospitalizations, intensive care admissions and deaths.

Reported infections is a very fuzzy measuring stick.  Remember when it was suggested if no testing was done, there would be no infections?  Just think of the wide availability of tests today that was not present a year ago when only the most suspect of cases were tested, or in the early days a high number of deaths and very low or even no testing being done. The 'Hard Data' authors take none of this into account with their analysis.  Instead, they they rely on an Appeal to Ignorance fallacy to justify their opinion, making the data fit their beliefs instead of the other way around.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 03:32:44 PM
BC and company, by all means, please get your jabs, from now until eternity. Big Pharma has lots of shareholders who want their benefit checks.

BTW perchance are you a stock owner of the various companies who are producing these experimental potions?

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/01/authorities-are-manipulating-death-rate-figures/


And, mRNA "vaccines" destroy the human ability to heal itself:

https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/10/2056/htm
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
This one is rather interesting.... :laugh: :laugh:


How to spot a demon…

1. They have zero empathy
2. They are 100% dishonest
3. They accuse their opponents of doing or intending to do precisely what they themselves are already doing
4. They are obsessed with corrupting children. They cannot stand their innocence.
5. When it is proven that their position is wrong and they are lying, they carry on taking that position anyway. Because they are not interested in right or wrong. They only care about power.
6. They are incredibly Pharisaical. They are 100% immoral but they create a false morality which makes them look 100% moral and makes those who are truly moral look 100% immoral.
7. They do not believe in free speech. They silence and shutdown all opposition.  Zuckerburg?
8. Their overall rulership strategy is visibly self defeating, destructive, win lose and bound to fail. But they seem incapable of seeing that.
9. They are not creative or innovative. They are destructive and corrupting and opportunist..

My favourite demonic expression from Hillary Clinton is: The biggest danger to “our democracy” is the desire of the Republicans to retake the Senate!


https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/11/28/who-is-really-behind-the-vaccine-mandates/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 04:21:42 PM

Correction.

Sane people know that, people like you do not know that.

Never before in the history of the World has an experimental mess of poison been released during an alleged pandemic.

Throughout the course of history, these things have been allowed to play themselves out, and years later was a legitimate vaccine, after years of proper testing, released.

Pretty easy to grasp? Apparently not.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/mass-vaccination-during-pandemic-a-historic-blunder-nobel-laureate-luc-montagnier/ar-AAKmnJr

Luc Montagnier certainly has a right to voice his opinion, no better than yours or mine.  Does he participate in any COVID studies or has he submitted any research papers on COVID for peer review?  If so, do point me to them, otherwise this goes into the discourse fallacy box labeled Appeal to Authority. 

On what basis do you believe his opinion?  Just because he says what you want to believe? At 89 is he doing any research at all? The same year he shared the Nobel prize, the first DNA sequence of a female was done.  Nothing like the technology and state of science today.


Here is another who says exactly what Luc Montagnier has been saying. Yes, it's an appeal to authority. An authority obviously higher than you or I.

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/11/19/dr-roger-hodkinson-you-never-start-a-vax-programme-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/


BTW....Ferguson of Imperial College started much of this nonsense. Who is the biggest contributor to Imperial College? Bill Gates. Let's see you dance around that one.  :smokin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 04:42:54 PM
Here is a Doctor who says that 85% of the deaths in the USA could have been prevented. Now I already know that BC and his sidekick mhr will claim that they have been "debunked". Meaning because the truth that he speaks threatens big Pharma profits and tyrannical control of the USA and by extension the World, he is seen as a threat by them.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/covid-jabs-came-from-bioterrorism/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 04, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
Wow more total useless crap by contrarian and more quotes by his quack doctors.  Just what everyone needs.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 04, 2021, 07:01:58 PM
Blah blah blah blah blah....

Why don't you put up your "credentials" as an internet troll up against the Nobel Peace Prize winner I posted as well as the prominent Canadian Doctor who went to medical school at Cambridge?

I doubt if you even have a two year college degree, much less the capability of being admitted to one of the top Universities in the World.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 04, 2021, 11:32:03 PM
Wiz I posted that article upthread. Maybe it will be read this time.

Use larger titles for your posts so to be noticed and read!  :ROFL:

Rich Vultures Pic Nic

Contrarian, life is short and I have no intention getting into arguments with other people who think they know all and at my old age want to teach me how to suck eggs. I live my life and take care of my health as best as I can and only care for my family members.

I do listen to many experts, like doctors etc%u2026..read many articles and try to keep up with events%u2026. Above all myself and family have priority and everything else is anybody's else problem.

My wife and I follow the Greek Mediterranean diet of fresh healthy food. She has been vaccinated 3 times and now


I see the Rich vultures preparing the people of the world for more EXPEREMENTAL vaccinations and Billions of $$$ Profits but I refuse to be their mouse to inject me.


[attachimg=1]

We have travelled 3 times, abroad, during the Pandemic and now%u2026%u2026we both keep making twice a week these "unreliable" tests and all have been negative. I hope we will continue life as we did till now.  BTW I have not used any mask yet.......because of my heavy smoking I end up with COPD.........and 3 years since I stopped smoking....... is not getting any better...

tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 04, 2021, 11:49:53 PM
Contrarian, life is short and I have no intention getting into arguments with other people who think they know all and at my old age want to teach me how to suck eggs. I live my life and take care of my health as best as I can and only care for my family members.

I do listen to many experts, like doctors etc%u2026..read many articles and try to keep up with events%u2026. Above all myself and family have priority and everything else is anybody's else problem.

Good advice!

While I have misgivings about the vaccine I strongly suspect for us antiques they are effective.

NB, please post a joke you often came up with the best ones!

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on December 05, 2021, 12:09:37 AM
Anyone who has been watching the news the last few days will know about the Coronavirus that may have originated in Wuhan, China. Cases are already reported in South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Taiwan and the US.

China is admitting 440 cases today, but right now is the Chinese New Year holiday week where every man and his dog is travelling and the Chinese airports and stations are full to the gunwales, so it is going to get much worse.

This morning North Korea closed its borders to foreigners to keep it out.

The suspicion is the Chinese are under reporting it as they did with the SARS.
And yet westerners claim the NK is not a humanitarian nation.  :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 05, 2021, 05:29:32 AM
Wiz I posted that article upthread. Maybe it will be read this time.

Use larger titles for your posts so to be noticed and read!  :ROFL:

Rich Vultures Pic Nic

Contrarian, life is short and I have no intention getting into arguments with other people who think they know all and at my old age want to teach me how to suck eggs. I live my life and take care of my health as best as I can and only care for my family members.

I do listen to many experts, like doctors etc%u2026..read many articles and try to keep up with events%u2026. Above all myself and family have priority and everything else is anybody's else problem.

My wife and I follow the Greek Mediterranean diet of fresh healthy food. She has been vaccinated 3 times and now


I see the Rich vultures preparing the people of the world for more EXPEREMENTAL vaccinations and Billions of $$$ Profits but I refuse to be their mouse to inject me.


(Attachment Link)

We have travelled 3 times, abroad, during the Pandemic and now%u2026%u2026we both keep making twice a week these "unreliable" tests and all have been negative. I hope we will continue life as we did till now.  BTW I have not used any mask yet.......because of my heavy smoking I end up with COPD.........and 3 years since I stopped smoking....... is not getting any better...

tiphat


Was I too hard on Tex? Sorry Tex, come back and express your opinions with fact. Leave the personal attacks out. There is no rule, written or unwritten, that I tell you about whatever new "scariant" pops up.

Wiz, you're right, it's a vultures picnic, isn't it? That sums up this witches brew well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 05, 2021, 06:28:43 AM
Was I too hard on Tex? Sorry Tex, come back and express your opinions with fact.

Are you referring to facts that can be substantiated?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 05, 2021, 11:12:59 AM
Contrarian, life is short and I have no intention getting into arguments with other people who think they know all and at my old age want to teach me how to suck eggs. I live my life and take care of my health as best as I can and only care for my family members.

I do listen to many experts, like doctors etc%u2026..read many articles and try to keep up with events%u2026. Above all myself and family have priority and everything else is anybody's else problem.

Good advice!

While I have misgivings about the vaccine I strongly suspect for us antiques they are effective.

NB, please post a joke you often came up with the best ones!

What you don’t understand?

"It's the capitalism, you idiot" ..

"The ultimate cause of all real crises remains Poverty and
Consumption constraints and are always present of the masses ... "

'Moreover, since the percentage of utilization of the total
capital, the rate of return is the capital of production (...),
its fall rate of return slows down the formation of new
independent funds and thus appears threatening
for the development of the capitalist processes and
promotes overproduction, speculation, crises ... »

Karl Marx


 tiphat
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on December 05, 2021, 12:21:39 PM
Italian Man Tries To Avoid Getting COVID Jab With Fake Silicone Arm
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88ggp3/italian-man-tries-to-avoid-getting-covid-jab-with-fake-silicone-arm

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 05, 2021, 01:21:27 PM
Italian Man Tries To Avoid Getting COVID Jab With Fake Silicone Arm
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88ggp3/italian-man-tries-to-avoid-getting-covid-jab-with-fake-silicone-arm

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-shocked-by-green-pass-auschwitz-protest-in-novara.html

  :o
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 05, 2021, 01:22:48 PM
Contrarian, life is short and I have no intention getting into arguments with other people who think they know all and at my old age want to teach me how to suck eggs. I live my life and take care of my health as best as I can and only care for my family members.

I do listen to many experts, like doctors etc%u2026..read many articles and try to keep up with events%u2026. Above all myself and family have priority and everything else is anybody's else problem.

Good advice!

While I have misgivings about the vaccine I strongly suspect for us antiques they are effective.

NB, please post a joke you often came up with the best ones!

What you don’t understand?

"It's the capitalism, you idiot" ..

"The ultimate cause of all real crises remains Poverty and
Consumption constraints and are always present of the masses ... "

'Moreover, since the percentage of utilization of the total
capital, the rate of return is the capital of production (...),
its fall rate of return slows down the formation of new
independent funds and thus appears threatening
for the development of the capitalist processes and
promotes overproduction, speculation, crises ... »

Karl Marx


 tiphat


WTF?? Do you now fancy yourself to be a Marxist?

Have you gone insane? Or is AvHdB right, you've always been?  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 05, 2021, 01:54:48 PM
Contrarian, life is short and I have no intention getting into arguments with other people who think they know all and at my old age want to teach me how to suck eggs. I live my life and take care of my health as best as I can and only care for my family members.

I do listen to many experts, like doctors etc%u2026..read many articles and try to keep up with events%u2026. Above all myself and family have priority and everything else is anybody's else problem.

Good advice!

While I have misgivings about the vaccine I strongly suspect for us antiques they are effective.

NB, please post a joke you often came up with the best ones!

What you don’t understand?

"It's the capitalism, you idiot" ..

"The ultimate cause of all real crises remains Poverty and
Consumption constraints and are always present of the masses ... "

'Moreover, since the percentage of utilization of the total
capital, the rate of return is the capital of production (...),
its fall rate of return slows down the formation of new
independent funds and thus appears threatening
for the development of the capitalist processes and
promotes overproduction, speculation, crises ... »

Karl Marx


 tiphat


WTF?? Do you now fancy yourself to be a Marxist?

Have you gone insane? Or is AvHdB right, you've always been?  :laugh: :laugh:

Perhaps it is a joke in the wrong thread.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 05, 2021, 06:51:49 PM
Quote
Mr Avhdb Arlov
Perhaps it is a joke in the wrong thread.

Well as I am an open minded person and you asked for a joke,  and by co-incident I was reading the intro of a Greek book, titled "It's the capitalism you idiot" written by a well known communist and radio presenter in Greece and I thought it would be appropriate to post it on this thread....... Having born in Greece I have not such political tendencies especially when my father was executed by the communists, one month before I was born!

Of course I made a mistake, because I forgot that our American friends are very close minded, ignorant, Brainwashed and very sensitive to criticism and I thank my luck that I live in the UK and not in SF in CA, like my older son with his large family!

We do have a clown as a PM who is more interested going on holidays, having parties, despite his lock down orders, and is keen impregnating women, for now, but he is not, yet, a Joseph McCarthy like the US had in the past, with his hate practices which you have not removed from your perfect Democratic system of Capitalism.....so I do apologise profusely for the offence caused to their sensitivities.


 :-[   :travel:   :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 05, 2021, 08:40:49 PM
Quote
Mr Avhdb Arlov
Perhaps it is a joke in the wrong thread.

Well as I am an open minded person and you asked for a joke,  and by co-incident I was reading the intro of a Greek book, titled "It's the capitalism you idiot" written by a well known communist and radio presenter in Greece and I thought it would be appropriate to post it on this thread....... Having born in Greece I have not such political tendencies especially when my father was executed by the communists, one month before I was born!

Of course I made a mistake, because I forgot that our American friends are very close minded, ignorant, Brainwashed and very sensitive to criticism and I thank my luck that I live in the UK and not in SF in CA, like my older son with his large family!

We do have a clown as a PM who is more interested going on holidays, having parties, despite his lock down orders, and is keen impregnating women, for now, but he is not, yet, a Joseph McCarthy like the US had in the past, with his hate practices which you have not removed from your perfect Democratic system of Capitalism.....so I do apologise profusely for the offence caused to their sensitivities.


 :-[   :travel:   :coffeeread:


He's far worse than McCarthy, he's an Israel first, UK last type of guy. McCarthy actually didn't start out bad and was in angel in comparison.  tiphat


If you're not into Communism, then why on earth do you continue to venerate it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 06, 2021, 02:19:41 AM
He's far worse than McCarthy, he's an Israel first, UK last type of guy.  McCarthy actually didn't start out bad and was in angel in comparison.  tiphat

If you're not into Communism, then why on earth do you continue to venerate it?

My friend Contrarian (the name you choose says it all about you) I suggest you take off your blinkers and let's be civilised without any accusations and for your information I know better and I will never venerate the communistic ideology..... On the other hand the US Capitalist system is not the right system for every country!

The truth of the mater is that most of your politicians either they are extreme in their ideology or have come to realise that the big Empire soon will have to share the international trade with Russia and China. The last one is the larger economic and producer power and has quietly has expanded in nearly any country around the world.......

Take a good look and tell me what is the difference between these dollar Notes.

(https://slatelickupc.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dollarbill.jpg)

Then when you finish can you please tell us after the death
of J Kennedy who is running your country?

PS: Little humour in our life.... makes the difference in our life!

 tiphat





 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 06, 2021, 05:45:07 AM
” I was told once by a leftwing scholar that as a Marxist, you have to do two things: always be optimistic and always have a view about everything. That advice still sounds good to me”
Yanis Varoufakis
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 06, 2021, 06:45:23 AM
” I was told once by a leftwing scholar that as a Marxist, you have to do two things: always be optimistic and always have a view about everything. That advice still sounds good to me”
Yanis Varoufakis

Yanis Married the daughter of a very rich Greek person and he has  done well with his dowry.
Also he was in the pocket Of George Soros working for one of his projects before becoming  a Minister, as he admitted on a TV program. His Boss Tsipras said on live TV, that one day they were having a drink and talking and Soros phoned and ask to speak to Tsipras, Yanis gave him the telephone and afterwards Tsipras told him that Soros asked him to sack Yannis......

In Greece he is like a clown.... and nobody pay attention to his blurb. or respect him, because when he was in a position to do something about Greece, all he achieved was to let IMF to impose Capital Controls in the bank accounts of the Greek People!

In life of course you have to be always optimistic and always try to learn so you can have a view, if you wish,  about alot of things.

 tiphat
Title: The Omicron Apocalypse is upon us
Post by: 2tallbill on December 06, 2021, 08:36:30 AM
The Omicron Apocalypse is upon us.

Two people died in Botswana possibly from the omicron apocalypse. We
need to shut down the global economy and send police door to door to
check to see if any babies are not wearing masks. People who wear two
masks will be allowed to wear a gold star on their outside mask to show
that they are more virtuous than you. They can wear two gold stars if
they post that they really, really, really care about global warming on their
facebook page.

It's estimated that 500 people are killed by Hippos each year in Africa. 

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 06, 2021, 10:08:51 AM
The info about Omicron from South Africa suggests it's a rather mild (mutated) infection and nothing to get too worked up about. Especially for the vaccinated and certainly for the recovered.

However, our media are treating it something like Ebola and Boris is on the TV constantly urging everyone to get boosters. We even had a mini stock market crash on the back of it a week or so back.

I had a routine heart and lung check the other day at a nearby health centre. The nurse asked me if I wanted my flu jab and Covid booster while I was there. I accepted the flu jab and declined the Covid booster. She asked why. I said when she can demonstrate it surpasses post-infection recovery and is safe, I'll look at it. She said then, "yes, lots of people are declining it for that reason, take-up is very low".
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on December 06, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Chewing Gum Developed That Could Reduce COVID Transmission
– Laced With Protein That “Traps” the SARS-CoV-2 Virus

https://scitechdaily.com/chewing-gum-developed-that-could-reduce-covid-transmission-laced-with-protein-that-traps-the-sars-cov-2-virus/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 06, 2021, 10:50:11 AM
I think that I will get the booster in a couple of weeks. I can't see a good reason not to do so.

It is not hard to understand why the UK is pushing the boosters. The early indications are that Omnicron is not hugely dangerous on an individual level but this is a numbers thing. And, of course, a matter of precaution. Given that we only know with any degree of certainty that this variant is way more infectious than the previous versions, the government is right to take precautions now. After all, who'd be moaning if they did nothing and in a months time we discover that the variant is as problematic as Delta?

The numbers are very important. We know that vaccination rates are high in the UK and we also know that the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes with time.
That means even if the number of serious cases per million is lower than Delta, given that we know the transmissibility is much higher than Delta, that the number of people, in absolute terms, who will need hospitalisation, might die or have life-changing long term effects will go up very rapidly to a high peak. The economic and social disruption that can cause will be significant.

We know that the boosters do increase the protection against Delta and almost certainly against Omicron.

So, as a low-impact move, having a booster makes sense for society as a whole, even if it is easy to justify not taking it on an individual basis.

There's no objective reason to fear the booster, the risk is tiny on an individual basis. Nothing we do is risk-free, That's why safety and risk are relative, not absolute terms. 

On a practical level, setting aside health implications, both positive and negative, at some point I foresee that having a booster will be required in many places and situations where now the two dose course is accepted. As one who gets on a plane more often than most people, I prefer to minimise the inconvenience to my life. If the risk of me getting infected when transiting a crowded airport terminal or sitting next to a cougher in a place is decreased by having a booster then I am all in for it.

Overall, I see that not having a booster is more easily justified, on an individual basis, than refusing the two dose regime, especially for those who can easily self isolate. But as a societal precaution, I do think it is important. When we use the three dose regime, we are not only taking care of ourselves, but we are looking out for those around us. I would prefer to reduce the likelihood of me giving somebody more vulnerable than I any form of covid.

Oh, I just booked my booster. :)

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on December 06, 2021, 11:07:40 AM
We know that the boosters do increase the protection against Delta and almost certainly against Omicron.

We don't know anything of the sort in regards to people who have had Covid. In fact, for those people, boosters/vaccine carry an elevated risk according to The Lancet (see posts passim).

For those who haven't had it, having a booster is more likely to be harmless and still unlikely to prevent infection. Lesser symptoms is the best one could expect.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 06, 2021, 01:13:04 PM
Andrew,

if you are given a choice of booster, you may want to consider J&J.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-johnson-pfizer-booster-mix/index.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267198v1.full.pdf

The small study hasn't been peer-reviewed but looks positive.

I got a J&J booster after BioNTech. Effects of the booster were quite light, much less than with the second shot prior.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 06, 2021, 01:18:56 PM
Top Scientists At The FDA And WHO Are Arguing Against COVID-19 Booster Shots

"In a review published on Monday, the experts said the evidence does not show that boosters are needed for the general population."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azeenghorayshi/fda-who-booster-shots-opposition
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 07, 2021, 02:38:47 AM
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 07, 2021, 02:46:25 AM
Andrew,

if you are given a choice of booster, you may want to consider J&J.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-johnson-pfizer-booster-mix/index.html
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267198v1.full.pdf

The small study hasn't been peer-reviewed but looks positive.

I got a J&J booster after BioNTech. Effects of the booster were quite light, much less than with the second shot prior.

In the UK you get what you're given and I have no misgivings about whatever gets shoved into my arm.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 12, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Biden's bullying mandates are rapidly failing. That's a very good thing for Liberty and for returning to normal.

Quote

"Biden's illegal gamble, the nationwide Federal contractor vaccine mandate, has like his previous Medicare mandate and OSHA if-you-have-100-workers-mandatory-vax mandate been ripped to shreds early on in the courts.

Biden's mandates have always been a bullying gamble, an admission that they knew they were engaging in illegal acts but that they would continue to use the not-insignificant weapons of the executive branch to blast as much harm as possible until the courts stepped in and noted the obvious: "You can't do this!"

Cynics - and I sympathize - will say that the courts could have ruled either way so don't get too excited.

That's the lesson of the past two years: There is nothing below us as we look down. It takes our breath away. We now understand that our civilization has been built on a pile of sand and any determined entity could tunnel under us as we are distracted by the human necessities of providing for our families and living our finite lives as best as possible."


https://www.zerohedge.com/political/panic-us-mega-corporations-rush-abandon-vax-mandate
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 13, 2021, 03:02:07 AM
Morning BC

I was listening on a Greek station an interview of a Greek doctor who lives in Rome who reported
that some Italian researcher discovered how to stop the Covid 19 virus to enter in our cells and infect us....by using a small part of our DNA that stops the virus to enter of in our cells..

I have to wait till later when they will  post their video on youtube to get more details......

Meanwhile can you please sniff around just in case you may find this new method of protection?

 :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 13, 2021, 08:17:40 AM
Morning BC

I was listening on a Greek station an interview of a Greek doctor who lives in Rome who reported
that some Italian researcher discovered how to stop the Covid 19 virus to enter in our cells and infect us....by using a small part of our DNA that stops the virus to enter of in our cells..

I have to wait till later when they will  post their video on youtube to get more details......

Meanwhile can you please sniff around just in case you may find this new method of protection?

 :coffeeread:
Looks like he was describing the Moderna/Pfizer vaccine, because thats exactly how it works!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 13, 2021, 10:18:09 AM
Hi Wiz!

Likely referring to this:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d43978-021-00150-2
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 13, 2021, 11:37:46 AM
Nothing is entirely safe. Every day we make choices about the relative safety of alternative choices.

No medical professional can tell you that any vaccine is safe - at least not honestly. The real choice is between the risk of infection from Covid 19 or the risk from the vaccination.

Some of us are already well aware of the implications of catching Covid, even in a supposedly low risk individual.

The numbers available are not confusing. They all point in the same direction. The only real discussion, even among those who claim that vaccination is more dangerous than it really is and less effective than it really is, is the degree of the success of the vaccinations at reducing the level of adverse outcomes. That issue is sometimes dishonestly promoted and sometimes a genuine issue related to poor understanding of how numbers work, about basic maths

So, later in the week I'll get a 3rd vaccination and be happy to do so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 14, 2021, 10:28:32 AM
Dr. Oz takes a shot at Fauci.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-oz-takes-aim-at-dr-fauci-saying-he-should-be-held-accountable/ar-AARM7kJ?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 14, 2021, 11:17:32 AM
Hi Wiz!

Likely referring to this:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d43978-021-00150-2

Thank you very much for finding the article for me.

Yes that is what I heard on the interview from Italy and it looks promising.

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 14, 2021, 01:43:30 PM
Lancet exposes American propaganda.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/lancet-scolds-those-claiming-pandemic-unvaccinated
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on December 14, 2021, 05:06:40 PM

So, later in the week I'll get a 3rd vaccination and be happy to do so.

A couple more and maybe you'll earn a free Burrito
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 14, 2021, 05:08:30 PM

So, later in the week I'll get a 3rd vaccination and be happy to do so.

A couple more and maybe you'll earn a free Burrito

After the recent numbers from Denmark came in, Netherlands has also done a 180 and now offers a free booster to anyone who wants it instead of only the elderly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 14, 2021, 05:58:30 PM

So, later in the week I'll get a 3rd vaccination and be happy to do so.

A couple more and maybe you'll earn a free Burrito


What he's "earning" is a screwed up immune system and manipulated DNA.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 15, 2021, 12:49:41 AM
Contrarian, go away and learn something.

The adults are here, the short bus will be along to pick you up in a few minutes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on December 15, 2021, 01:06:17 AM
Contrarian, go away and learn something.

The adults are here, the short bus will be along to pick you up in a few minutes.
:thumbsup: Let us hope the bus isn't very late.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 15, 2021, 01:56:13 AM
Contrarian, go away and learn something.

The adults are here, the short bus will be along to pick you up in a few minutes.
:thumbsup: Let us hope the bus isn't very late.

Yup.

Which reminds me, how is Billykins?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on December 15, 2021, 04:03:29 AM
Contrarian, go away and learn something.

The adults are here, the short bus will be along to pick you up in a few minutes.
:thumbsup: Let us hope the bus isn't very late.

Yup.

Which reminds me, how is Billykins?
What's a billykin? Is that a sort of bikini for men?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 15, 2021, 06:26:06 AM
Contrarian, go away and learn something.

The adults are here, the short bus will be along to pick you up in a few minutes.
:thumbsup: Let us hope the bus isn't very late.

Yup.

Which reminds me, how is Billykins?
What's a billykin? Is that a sort of bikini for men?

Billyb, a strident anti-vaxer who claimed D. Trump would remain and than LATTER be reinstated as POTUS. He stopped posting just before you started to post.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 15, 2021, 07:31:55 AM
Epidemic of Heart Disease Caused by
COVID Vaccines and Related Stress


(https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Imagem1.jpg)

Pandemic, epidemic, or a medical emergency. No matter what we call it, people suffering from vascular disease have dramatically increased, and too many are dying from it. Not only is there no vaccine possible for heart disease, but in all probability, the COVID vaccines are driving the pain, suffering, and death through sudden onset heart disease. In the week ending November 12, 2021, the U.K. reported 2,047 more deaths than occurred during the same period between 2015 and 2019; heart disease and strokes appear to be behind many of the excess deaths.

“I watched Roy die, and I could not get to him. We were about to leave for the hospital, and he was in the toilet, and I heard a thud. He had fallen, his body was blocking the door, his full weight was against it, and I couldn’t get it open. I could see him through a crack in the door. I could see that he was gone.”

Rory had received his first dose of the Pfizer vaccine on November 5 and started feeling ‘heart flutters’ that evening. The symptoms continued, and 12 days later, he began to suffer heart palpitations and an ‘uncomfortable’ feeling in his chest.

Inside the emergency department at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing, Michigan, staff members are struggling to care for patients showing up much sicker than they’ve ever seen. Patients are showing up to the E.R. sicker than before the pandemic; their diseases are more advanced and need more complicated care. “We are hearing from members in every part of the country,” said Dr. Lisa Moreno, president of the American Academy of Emergency Medicine. “The Midwest, the South, the Northeast, the West … they are seeing this exact same phenomenon.” And already-overwhelmed staffers are burning out.

Things are so bad that Maine Gov. Janet Mills on Dec. 8 activated the state’s National Guard to assist at hospitals. Dr. Andrew Mueller, CEO of MaineHealth, told reporters in a virtual briefing that hospitalizations for COVID-19 in the health care system are at their highest level even though Maine has a high vaccination rate.

Read the whole article here: https://www.globalresearch.ca/epidemic-heart-disease-caused-covid-vaccines-related-stress/5764623?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on December 15, 2021, 07:57:23 AM
Epidemic of Heart Disease Caused by
COVID Vaccines and Related Stress
That might be but I have high blood pressure, a pacemaker, and I got both Astra-Zeneca COVID jabs this past June. I had no reaction to either injection nor do I feel poorly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 15, 2021, 08:37:36 AM

Inside the emergency department at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing, Michigan, staff members are struggling to care for patients showing up much sicker than they’ve ever seen. Patients are showing up to the E.R. sicker than before the pandemic; their diseases are more advanced and need more complicated care. “We are hearing from members in every part of the country,” said Dr. Lisa Moreno, president of the American Academy of Emergency Medicine. “The Midwest, the South, the Northeast, the West … they are seeing this exact same phenomenon.” And already-overwhelmed staffers are burning out.

Things are so bad that Maine Gov. Janet Mills on Dec. 8 activated the state’s National Guard to assist at hospitals. Dr. Andrew Mueller, CEO of MaineHealth, told reporters in a virtual briefing that hospitalizations for COVID-19 in the health care system are at their highest level even though Maine has a high vaccination rate.


Wiz,

consider this as a side effect of COVID and not because of the vaccine.  An ambulance with a COVID patient gasping for breath cannot pick up a suspected heart attack along the way.  Ambulances are a scarce resource during COVID waves.  Some have to wait longer, maybe too long.  Many normal doctor appointments and non urgent or elective surgeries also postponed.  Many diseases were not diagnosed that could otherwise be treated due to lack of hospital space, doctors and laboratories taking care of COVID patients.  Many simply did not want to go to the hospital at all for fear of catching COVID along the way, or the wait times involved with trying to find a doctor that is free.  The result is exactly as your article described.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 15, 2021, 06:51:09 PM
BC and Valenki

I am sure you do realise that, as a pensioner, I have plenty of free time and I enjoy reading and listening Radio but I avoid the Mass Media Government propaganda stations and listen stations like LBC, where every presenter speaks freely his own views as also the people who phone-in! The same apply for the Greek stations too.

My favourite is a regional presenter , who almost daily in connection with Covid 19, presents Greek Scientists from all over the world, Stamford UNI, Paris, London, Italy and many other countries. The things I hear and learn daily are and finding amazing. I am not a scientist but a simple person so I prefer to keep my ears open.

When I find an interesting article, in my view, I post it here……and the last one proves the effects of the current Pandemic……in the Health systems and in the life of citizens, because the same happening in the UK and also in Greece too and I guess in many other countries.

At the moment while writing my comments….. I hear a very popular Greek 4 hour program where anybody can phone and express his opinion for any subject, except porn. The things I hear and learn still surprise me about my birth Country Greece!!!

Read the articles I post and then make up your own mind!

 tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on December 15, 2021, 07:43:09 PM
BC and Valenki

I am sure you do realise that, as a pensioner, I have plenty of free time and I enjoy reading and listening Radio but I avoid the Mass Media Government propaganda stations and listen stations like LBC, where every presenter speaks freely his own views as also the people who phone-in! The same apply for the Greek stations too.

My favourite is a regional presenter , who almost daily in connection with Covid 19, presents Greek Scientists from all over the world, Stamford UNI, Paris, London, Italy and many other countries. The things I hear and learn daily are and finding amazing. I am not a scientist but a simple person so I prefer to keep my ears open.

When I find an interesting article, in my view, I post it here……and the last one proves the effects of the current Pandemic……in the Health systems and in the life of citizens, because the same happening in the UK and also in Greece too and I guess in many other countries.

At the moment while writing my comments….. I hear a very popular Greek 4 hour program where anybody can phone and express his opinion for any subject, except porn. The things I hear and learn still surprise me about my birth Country Greece!!!

Read the articles I post and then make up your own mind!

 tiphat
Being open-minded is good but insinuating that I, and the majority of COVID vaccine recipients, suffer from "an Epidemic of Heart Disease" isn't open-minded at all. Do you agree?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 15, 2021, 08:16:11 PM
BC and Valenki

I am sure you do realise that, as a pensioner, I have plenty of free time and I enjoy reading and listening Radio but I avoid the Mass Media Government propaganda stations and listen stations like LBC, where every presenter speaks freely his own views as also the people who phone-in! The same apply for the Greek stations too.

My favourite is a regional presenter , who almost daily in connection with Covid 19, presents Greek Scientists from all over the world, Stamford UNI, Paris, London, Italy and many other countries. The things I hear and learn daily are and finding amazing. I am not a scientist but a simple person so I prefer to keep my ears open.

When I find an interesting article, in my view, I post it here……and the last one proves the effects of the current Pandemic……in the Health systems and in the life of citizens, because the same happening in the UK and also in Greece too and I guess in many other countries.

At the moment while writing my comments….. I hear a very popular Greek 4 hour program where anybody can phone and express his opinion for any subject, except porn. The things I hear and learn still surprise me about my birth Country Greece!!!

Read the articles I post and then make up your own mind!

 tiphat
Being open-minded is good but insinuating that I, and the majority of COVID vaccine recipients, suffer from "an Epidemic of Heart Disease" isn't open-minded at all. Do you agree?

Where did I posted what you say?  I posted no views!

The point you make is part of the title of the article and NOT MINE!

 (:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on December 15, 2021, 09:20:15 PM
BC and Valenki

I am sure you do realise that, as a pensioner, I have plenty of free time and I enjoy reading and listening Radio but I avoid the Mass Media Government propaganda stations and listen stations like LBC, where every presenter speaks freely his own views as also the people who phone-in! The same apply for the Greek stations too.

My favourite is a regional presenter , who almost daily in connection with Covid 19, presents Greek Scientists from all over the world, Stamford UNI, Paris, London, Italy and many other countries. The things I hear and learn daily are and finding amazing. I am not a scientist but a simple person so I prefer to keep my ears open.

When I find an interesting article, in my view, I post it here……and the last one proves the effects of the current Pandemic……in the Health systems and in the life of citizens, because the same happening in the UK and also in Greece too and I guess in many other countries.

At the moment while writing my comments….. I hear a very popular Greek 4 hour program where anybody can phone and express his opinion for any subject, except porn. The things I hear and learn still surprise me about my birth Country Greece!!!

Read the articles I post and then make up your own mind!

 tiphat
Being open-minded is good but insinuating that I, and the majority of COVID vaccine recipients, suffer from "an Epidemic of Heart Disease" isn't open-minded at all. Do you agree?

Where did I posted what you say?  I posted no views!

The point you make is part of the title of the article and NOT MINE!

 (:)
I didn't say what you think I said about what you said I said with regards to what you said or didn't say. If I say "It's cold today. Do you agree?" It doesn't mean that I am accusing you of disagreeing. There are gaps in your English comprehension that can be irritating at times.  :eeekk:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 15, 2021, 11:45:11 PM
BC and Valenki

Read the articles I post and then make up your own mind!

 tiphat

Wiz,

I do exactly that, and reply contrasting fact-based information.  Nothing wrong with that or?

Do you read our replies and digest and consider the information within?

As far as decisions go, I try to make informed, discerning decisions and don't rely on fallacious tabloid information as my sole source.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 16, 2021, 07:40:07 AM
BC and Valenki

Read the articles I post and then make up your own mind!

 tiphat

Wiz,

I do exactly that, and reply contrasting fact-based information.  Nothing wrong with that or?

Do you read our replies and digest and consider the information within?

As far as decisions go, I try to make informed, discerning decisions and don't rely on fallacious tabloid information as my sole source.

While I agree with all your comments, I would like to remind you that due to my old age and after having lived in this country since 1978 permanently, must admit that I have failed with my self education of the English Language to achieve and reach the same level as other people around this board.

May I kindly ask you to pay attention to the latest comments made by another member here regarding the above failure on my part!:

" There are gaps in your English comprehension that can be irritating at times. "

Similar comments were also made by the Zionist troll too but the owner of this board, warn me to stop trolling on the board and stop posting (funny) pictures.

It is obvious that people. around here, prefer not attacking the comments we make but  instead prefer posting personal insulting attacks but never were warned about it.

Thank you for finding that Nature post for me and talking common sense!

Having been around these boards for many years, I am tired reading and talking to people with a superiority nasty egoistical complex and a "know all" behaviour.

Thanks to Clark Gable I can say: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" ...

Arrivederci presto!  tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 16, 2021, 10:59:21 AM

Similar comments were also made by the Zionist troll too but the owner of this board, warn me to stop trolling on the board and stop posting (funny) pictures.

It is obvious that people. around here, prefer not attacking the comments we make but  instead prefer posting personal insulting attacks but never were warned about it.


Wiz,

Don't you find your first sentence in conflict with the second?  Just food for thought.  I do agree Ad Hominem attacks are not very constructive.  I do try to abstain from such in most cases.  Maybe give it a try as well ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on December 16, 2021, 11:53:13 AM
Covid19 Updates:

The FLCCC is extremely professional and knowledgeable as opposed to the Bill Gates Eugencists FDA and CDC Faucian Death mRNA Spike Protein Clot Shots that will eventually come back to bite these modern day Mengele murderers in the arse due to the over one quarter million VEARS "vaccine" severe side effects (over 80 different major and severe problematic side effects with the mRNA clot shots now known).  These are more severe side effects than all other vaccines over the past 30 years WTF???

So the FLCCC has published 3 main supplements based anti-viral (Cold, Flu, SARS, SarsCov2 etc) protocols:

MASK+  Preventative prophylactic protocol:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/  (The Protocol I have been on for over a month using the 500MG Quercitin and 50MG Zinc combo supplements) all on Amazon as no prescription required for the ionophore Quercetin and Amazon is taking dead aim at Big Pharma, Rite Aid, CVS and Walgreens via its new online Pharmacy Division and Red China supply chains...

Plus a more aggressive protocol if you do become ill, even more aggressive for those admitted to mRNA murder centers er ah um intubation eugenecits hospitals.  Then lastly a protocol for Covid Long Haulers...

These are true front-line critical care MDs fed up with the Faucian and big Pfizer Mengele Pharma lies that the mRNA injections are perfectly safe for New-Borns to 99-year-olds (Fact is it is a crime against humanity to inject mRNA into anyone below 30 years of age with no known co-morbidities). FLCCC MDs are tired of burying their patients NEEDLESSSLY due to Fauci, Pfizer and the FDA and CDC.

Link to all the FLCCC protocols:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/

How and where to get the true miracle drug Ivermectin:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/how-to-get-ivermectin/

Detailed Ivermectin Info:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 16, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Thanks cuffy. For those living in the PNW and California, this is a top Doctor to consider contacting for Ivermectin if the need arises.

A. Michael Turner, MD
Kennewick, WA
Graduate of Harvard Medical School and the Mayo Clinic

Patient Testimonials:
https://www.michaelturnermd.com/testimonials

Schedule TeleMed or Expedited Appointments Here:
https://www.michaelturnermd.com/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 16, 2021, 02:40:18 PM
Thanks cuffy. For those living in the PNW and California, this is a top Doctor to consider contacting for Ivermectin if the need arises.

The problem with Ivermecting is that it helps enormously, or it helps Covid kill you. It all depends on why you get sick from Covid, there are 2 reasons.

Thats why the government so far is not endorsing this, except as last resort.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 16, 2021, 03:16:11 PM
Thanks cuffy. For those living in the PNW and California, this is a top Doctor to consider contacting for Ivermectin if the need arises.

The problem with Ivermecting is that it helps enormously, or it helps Covid kill you. It all depends on why you get sick from Covid, there are 2 reasons.

Thats why the government so far is not endorsing this, except as last resort.


What are those two reasons? Please explain.

The government has done far more than not endorse it, they have allowed the media, big tech and big Pharma to aggressively smear it as if it has no benefit at all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on December 16, 2021, 03:22:35 PM

What are those two reasons? Please explain.

1) Your body's antibodies go into overdrive, not only killing Covid but also attacking the organs and causing unintended damage.
Since Ivermectin slows down your antibodies, it helps very well here.

2) Your body's antibodies are not upto spec to fighting covid. The disease is winning. These type of people also have a high chance of so-called lung-covid that lasts for months.
Care to guess how extra slowdown of your antibodies affects these cases?

Above is the information for Hydrochloroxine argh! (I left it up)

Ivermectine helps, but for it to successfully combat Covid-19, it has to be such high doses that it turns toxic to humans.  So if it doesn't cure you of covid quickly enough you will have to stop taking it anyway, and because Covid is a virus, it will become more resistent to Ivermectine if you have to quit prematurely.

From Wikipedia: Countries that have granted such official approval for ivermectin include the Czech Republic,[138] Slovakia,[138] Mexico,[139] Peru (later rescinded),[140][141] and India[142][143] (later rescinded).[144]

I find the india that rescinded approval of ivermectine quite telling.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 16, 2021, 04:56:04 PM

Similar comments were also made by the Zionist troll too but the owner of this board, warn me to stop trolling on the board and stop posting (funny) pictures.

It is obvious that people. around here, prefer not attacking the comments we make but  instead prefer posting personal insulting attacks but never were warned about it.


Wiz,

Don't you find your first sentence in conflict with the second?  Just food for thought.  I do agree Ad Hominem attacks are not very constructive.  I do try to abstain from such in most cases.  Maybe give it a try as well ;)

While I agree with you it's just becomes boring..... every time I make a post to get similar attacking personal comments from the same persons.......

Time to sleep.

Chiao
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on December 17, 2021, 01:05:00 PM

What are those two reasons? Please explain.

1) Your body's antibodies go into overdrive, not only killing Covid but also attacking the organs and causing unintended damage.
Since Ivermectin slows down your antibodies, it helps very well here.

2) Your body's antibodies are not upto spec to fighting covid. The disease is winning. These type of people also have a high chance of so-called lung-covid that lasts for months.
Care to guess how extra slowdown of your antibodies affects these cases?

Above is the information for Hydrochloroxine argh! (I left it up)

Ivermectine helps, but for it to successfully combat Covid-19, it has to be such high doses that it turns toxic to humans.  So if it doesn't cure you of covid quickly enough you will have to stop taking it anyway, and because Covid is a virus, it will become more resistent to Ivermectine if you have to quit prematurely.

From Wikipedia: Countries that have granted such official approval for ivermectin include the Czech Republic,[138] Slovakia,[138] Mexico,[139] Peru (later rescinded),[140][141] and India[142][143] (later rescinded).[144]

I find the india that rescinded approval of ivermectin quite telling.

The reason that Mega-Pharma and their media marionettes hate ionophores (Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin) is that combined in a FLCCC type protocol including Zinc, Vitamins C, D3 and multivitamins - is that the ionophore plus Zinc Combination along with C and D3 are extremely effective in mitigating viral replication inside all types of human cells - the ionophore allows absorption of zinc through the cells boundary layers and then the Zinc mitigates the enzymes required for viral replication to a low enough level to halt massive viral replication that then evolves into cytokine storms and deadly SARS pneumonia. 

So, the Mega Pharma Incs need to keep their EUAs (Emergency Use Authorizations) in place to maintain emergency use immunity from prosecutions due to mRNA Vaxx deaths and severe side effects. VEARS adverse effects database which only captures less than 10% of all mRNA severe side effects indicate more mRNA severe adverse effects than all other vaccines combined over the past 30 years.    If there is an effective low-cost treatment protocol, then NO EUAs are by CDC and FDA regs allowed.  Clearly Mega Pharma bought off the FDA, CDC and compliant politicos.

Ionophores individually not nearly as effective as ionophores plus zinc.  Clearly Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin are politically charged and made controversial by science denying mega media and Government Health agencies.  Ionophores plus Zinc, C and D3 with multi vitamins are extremely effective at building immunity against Coronavirus variants and Viral associated cancers (Read the ionophore molecules patents and pre-covid19 studies).  Facts are facts especially when backed by real science.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 17, 2021, 04:22:31 PM
Bloody Greeks.... every where, even fighting Covid 19 and its variations.

Regeneron and AstraZeneca give mixed results on potency of coronavirus antibody cocktails against omicron

Regeneron Pharmaceuticals and AstraZeneca, makers of monoclonal antibody cocktails used as treatment for many coronavirus patients who have not been vaccinated, announced contrasting data Thursday about the potency of their covid-19 therapies against the omicron variant.

Read all here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/16/regeneron-omicron-diminished-potency-covid/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/16/regeneron-omicron-diminished-potency-covid/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 17, 2021, 10:01:22 PM
Obviously this is far more about limiting the pharmaceuticals liability than any point of actual
general  safety of vaccine-

But it does make you reflect on the financials if all this when they are quite willing  to profit off their highly subsidized research,  but unwilling to take on  any possibility of liability costs?

Seems a tad less than humanitarian,  hopefully they aren't up for any awards in this category

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/refugees-lack-covid-shots-because-drugmakers-fear-lawsuits-documents-2021-12-16/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 18, 2021, 05:00:02 AM
As I recall, arrangements and agreements were made in terms of liability early in the vaccine development process. The governments of the world wanted rapid vaccine delivery and manufacturers were rightly concerned with liability issues.

So governments agreed to take over liability. That seems entirely reasonable to me. Of course the issue then comes with holding governments liable for potential vaccine issues.

One area in which I do not have a concern was the pancaking of trials and testing. Running operations concurrently rather than consecutively is a huge time saver, is costly to do and financially risky. However, safety is not compromised - at least not in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 19, 2021, 12:12:35 AM

But it does make you reflect on the financials if all this when they are quite willing  to profit off their highly subsidized research,  but unwilling to take on  any possibility of liability costs?


Not at all.  First, it is the same with all vaccines.  Many governments have set up compensation funds for anyone that suffers harm directly related to a vaccine.  For the US, VICP and CICP

Second, governments are responsible for the well-being of society and carry the ultimate financial burden. Governments implement mitigation regulations and mandates, not vaccine makers.

Third, we are a very litigious society, especially the US.  Fighting even frivolous lawsuits can be an expensive burden, not only for litigants but a government as well.  With all they hype and misinformation, clogging the courts with such, mostly frivolous cases would be a burden to the government and financial burden to tax payers as well.

Lastly, if exposed to liability, vaccine makers would simply increase the prices of vaccines the government orders from them.  By assuming liability, and providing compensation programs, the government and taxpayers save money.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 20, 2021, 11:45:51 AM
All true.

Like all things there are several sides to it?
The entire freedom of liability on vaccines  originally stemmed from several failed vaccine programs and the resultant liability.
The unwillingness to develope or absorb such costs may indeed by less expensive absorbed by the government.
 Cities,counties  etc having Tort immunity to even constitutional breaches up to those infrsctions being petitioned at the highest  federal.level ,
is for good functioning reasons,but doesnt make it individually ,ethically right* in all cases.

  The fails in vaccines that initiated the governments taking over such liability  seems important in this context.


My point remains that this particular vaccine was heavily subsidized in the billions,
Yet if someone doesnt fall under a given citizenship  to alleviate the Pharmas liability , they are not will to accept those possible losses in revenues.

Their reluctance to offer aid if it *might cost them something is worth noting,and that's what I'm doing. Because they legally can,and have been able to for years doesnt make my eyebrow less raised ;)
  If they fully developed this in house on thier shareholders dimes, with no  huge subsidizing, it still wouldn't garner high ranks in humanitarian points.

In the end someone lacking citizenship to a government that would alleave the pharmas liability for injury with the vaccine is the deciding factor on if they get to receive one.

So I still say,no matter how much sense that might make in a for profit  corporation and government cooperation,  that is worth pondering.


It smells like imminent domain policies,
For the public good ,but only when it's convenient.

 :whistle:


 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 20, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
And for a little humour [attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 20, 2021, 12:19:29 PM
And for a little humour (Attachment Link)

Funny but I am fearful some won't be alive to collect!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 21, 2021, 03:28:48 AM

My point remains that this particular vaccine was heavily subsidized in the billions,
Yet if someone doesnt fall under a given citizenship  to alleviate the Pharmas liability , they are not will to accept those possible losses in revenues.

Their reluctance to offer aid if it *might cost them something is worth noting,and that's what I'm doing. Because they legally can,and have been able to for years doesnt make my eyebrow less raised ;)
  If they fully developed this in house on thier shareholders dimes, with no  huge subsidizing, it still wouldn't garner high ranks in humanitarian points.

AJ,

BioNTech/Pfizer did not accept funds for development, but did accept pre-orders from a number of countries.  IIRC most of the 'Warp Speed' funds went towards advance purchase agreements.

The article you linked referred to pharma selling to governments.  Of course if a government doesn't agree to conditions they'll have to acquire elsewhere.

Here is some info how COVAX is handling liability aspects. https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/act-accelerator/briefing-note-indemnification-and-compensation-covax-amc-countries.pdf

Of course how each country programs or controls distribution of the vaccine, whether certain portions of populations are ignored is pretty much their business and certainly not the manufacturers fault as I see it.

At least some, maybe all the manufacturers also include conditions such as citizens and residents of a country cannot be charged for the vaccine, and cannot sell it. IMO a good thing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on December 21, 2021, 04:05:50 AM
AJ,

Here's the most up to date info I could find as to how OWS funds were spent showing whether it was for development or purchase.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11560
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on December 21, 2021, 10:30:52 AM
Second, governments are responsible for the well-being of society and carry the
ultimate financial burden. Governments implement mitigation regulations and
mandates, not vaccine makers.

That statement could explain 90% of why socialists believe as they do.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 21, 2021, 04:18:59 PM
Second, governments are responsible for the well-being of society and carry the
ultimate financial burden. Governments implement mitigation regulations and
mandates, not vaccine makers.

That statement could explain 90% of why socialists believe as they do.


Exactly. He probably likes Fauci.

Meanwhile Fauci is complaining about Jesse Watters and now Robert Kennedy. The weasel who financed gain of function with communist China is complaining.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-rfk-jr-fox-news-trump-death-threats-disturbed-194310637.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 21, 2021, 04:26:22 PM
Meanwhile Biden said he was calling up some troops and FEMA to protect hospitals or something such. The comments section of this article was very interesting.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-vaccine-mandates-unpopular-legal-effective
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 21, 2021, 05:17:25 PM
Meanwhile Biden said he was calling up some troops and FEMA to protect hospitals or something such. The comments section of this article was very interesting.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-vaccine-mandates-unpopular-legal-effective

Quote

Additional 1,000 military doctors to help hospitals
"President Biden said he directed the Pentagon to mobilize additional 1,000 troops to be deployed to help staff local hospitals and expand capacity.

FEMA will deploy hundreds of ambulances and EMS crews to help transport patients if/when hospitals fill up, according to Biden."

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4314398/joe-biden-covid-speech-live-today-updates/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on December 21, 2021, 05:52:05 PM
The CDC just stated omicron variant at 78% of sequenced tests I. The u.s.a.

Since south africa is having a downturn in hospitalizations ,and so far only one person (with prior covid and with comorbidities) in the USA has died of omicron variant, it maybe a good thing tgat variant has become the bulk of cases.
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on December 22, 2021, 10:35:13 AM
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/12/918/516/Political-Cartoon-12.15.21-Seeing-spots.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F0EC/production/_113767616_vaccine_meme_false.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 23, 2021, 11:41:08 AM
The below link is NOT about the CORONA virus but another epidemic. It is a long technical read but some parallels can be drawn.

https://www.pnas.org/content/112/10/3020
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on December 23, 2021, 12:28:34 PM
Yeah, a few years ago it was realised that the Black Death moved faster than rats could travel.

That led to a different idea about how the successive waves arose and where they came from.

The linked paper is either a source for or contemporaneous to that understanding.

Not too sure about the parallels apart from the fairly obvious point that infections, not only of Covid-19, spread by whatever is the fastest mode of long range human transportation and that the introduction of quarantine precautions slowed down and reduced such spread.

These days, rapid long distance travel is so easy and so widely undertaken that transportation isolation is not effective at stopping transmission but can only buy a little time.

Of course, with a highly transmissible pathogen, introduction can occur before we are even aware of the pathogen - as we now know occurred with the Omicron variant.

Closing borders has been pointless in this instance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 25, 2021, 10:43:57 AM
Liberty versus encroaching tyranny in the debate of how to handle epidemics.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/anger-over-masks-mandates-other-covid-rules-spurs-states-to-curb-power-of-public-health-officials/ar-AAS8BLX?li=BBnb7Kz
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 28, 2021, 10:31:36 AM

https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-the-covid-19-omicron-christmas-lockdown/5765376
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 29, 2021, 08:10:33 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/twitter-suspends-mrna-inventor-dr-robert-malone
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 30, 2021, 08:29:52 AM
He's far worse than McCarthy, he's an Israel first, UK last type of guy.  McCarthy actually didn't start out bad and was in angel in comparison.  tiphat

If you're not into Communism, then why on earth do you continue to venerate it?

My friend Contrarian (the name you choose says it all about you) I suggest you take off your blinkers and let's be civilised without any accusations and for your information I know better and I will never venerate the communistic ideology..... On the other hand the US Capitalist system is not the right system for every country!

The truth of the mater is that most of your politicians either they are extreme in their ideology or have come to realise that the big Empire soon will have to share the international trade with Russia and China. The last one is the larger economic and producer power and has quietly has expanded in nearly any country around the world.......

What is the difference between these dollar Notes.

(https://slatelickupc.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dollarbill.jpg)

When you finish can you please tell us after the death
of J Kennedy who is running your country?
PS: Little humour in our life.... makes the difference!


 tiphat
At the beginning of the month I asked a question regarding these 2 dollar notes BUT nobody bothered to reply to my request..... and I just wonder why?

Anybody care to answer my question?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on December 30, 2021, 09:40:45 AM
He's far worse than McCarthy, he's an Israel first, UK last type of guy.  McCarthy actually didn't start out bad and was in angel in comparison.  tiphat

If you're not into Communism, then why on earth do you continue to venerate it?

My friend Contrarian (the name you choose says it all about you) I suggest you take off your blinkers and let's be civilised without any accusations and for your information I know better and I will never venerate the communistic ideology..... On the other hand the US Capitalist system is not the right system for every country!

The truth of the mater is that most of your politicians either they are extreme in their ideology or have come to realise that the big Empire soon will have to share the international trade with Russia and China. The last one is the larger economic and producer power and has quietly has expanded in nearly any country around the world.......

What is the difference between these dollar Notes.

(https://slatelickupc.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dollarbill.jpg)

When you finish can you please tell us after the death
of J Kennedy who is running your country?
PS: Little humour in our life.... makes the difference!


 tiphat
At the beginning of the month I asked a question regarding these 2 dollar notes BUT nobody bothered to reply to my request..... and I just wonder why?

Anybody care to answer my question?


Question 1.) Both sides of a 1 $ dollar note. So what. Please spare us some Illuminati or Freemasonry conspiracy theories!

Question 2.) As in other nations (though to a lessor degree) there are a variety of competing interests in the United States. Some quite unsavory I might add.

I will note this tack has zero to do with the topic of this thread but just another attempt of yours to drag a thread off topic, you are truly Moby II.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on December 31, 2021, 03:09:49 AM
What is the difference between these dollar Notes.

(https://slatelickupc.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dollarbill.jpg)

When you finish can you please tell us after the death
of J Kennedy who is running your country?


 tiphat
At the beginning of the month I asked a question regarding these 2 dollar notes BUT nobody bothered to reply to my request..... and I just wonder why?

Anybody care to answer my question?


Question 1.) Both sides of a 1 $ dollar note. So what. Please spare us some Illuminati or Freemasonry conspiracy theories!

Question 2.) As in other nations (though to a lessor degree) there are a variety of competing interests in the United States. Some quite unsavory I might add.

I will note this tack has zero to do with the topic of this thread but just another attempt of yours to drag a thread off topic, you are truly Moby II.

In reply to your last comment please note: I HAVE NO PROBLEM IF YOU ASK MANNY TO MOVE THIS POST TO ANY OTHER NEW OR OLD POST!

From your replies 1 and 2, It is obvious that you don't like me bringing up this kind of subject or you have problem with your reading ability, or as usual you are trolling Obfuscating the truth... because you don't like the truth behind those pics above to be said openly and publicly!

Here is the difference of the 2 notes.

a) The top one says at the top: FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

b) The second one says : THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

The Note a) is Issued by the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK , which is Private Bank and is charging commission when is requested  to issue more Notes. by the USA Treasury..... The FED is a Private BANK owned by the well known Family of Rothschild's  and it's friends.

The second one is issued by the Treasury and pay no commission to anybody and is under the control of the Government.

I suggest you read the WIKIPEDIA ABOUT THE Executive Order 11110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110)


Well after you read Executive Order 11110 and educate yourself, most probably you know all that already, you may if you want answer my question and tell us: After the death of J F Kennedy who is running the country you live and who really organised his killing, if you know!?

Have fun and you can  take advice from your office if you need to. I have few days free time to wait! for your reply!

If you ignore me.....  or what ever else you accuse me, then don't blame me for trolling! :evilgrin0002:

Happy new year

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrG_67l2UdlXhrI0DAYtTrtp2bw3cLPU0DzQ&usqp=CAU)

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on December 31, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Julian Lennon is taking Ivermectin for Covid.


https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/music/julian-lennon-sean-lennon-ivermectin
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 01, 2022, 02:38:28 PM
Obese out of shape "defense" Secretary fires military personnel in the name of combat readiness.


https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=62771
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 01, 2022, 10:52:03 PM
Interesting....

(https://shifthappens2017.files.wordpress.com/2021/03/image.png)


https://detoxmission.com/germ-theory-vs-terrain-theory/


https://thefullest.com/2021/03/25/what-is-terrain-theory-and-germ-theory/


https://www.drrobertyoung.com/post/the-terrain-theory-vs-the-germ-theory
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 02, 2022, 10:15:32 AM
Normaly I save an interesting article and/or opinion to reread. This time I did not and can not find what I read. The basic premise was that the new variation of COVID signals the end of the epidemic.

Written by researchers it is an interesting viewpoint. Seeing that in my circle of acquaintances and contacts everyone seems to have COVID it will be a welcome reality.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 02, 2022, 11:20:58 AM
This is NOT the article but it echoes some of the themes.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/09/bill-gates-how-covid-pandemic-ends-and-becomes-endemic-with-omicron.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 03, 2022, 04:15:44 PM
This article might actually fit better in the thread 1984 Style Tech Takeover...

Quote

"A couple of things all happened together over the last 48 hours.

First, I came up with the idea of writing 100 predictions for the year 2022 – a blog post that I might still wind up finishing at some point. And second, I listened to the Joe Rogan Experience podcast interview of mRNA inventor Dr. Robert Malone, M.D., hours after the doctor was banned from Twitter for having opinions on Covid that stood at odds with the mainstream narrative.

The opinions that Malone echoed during his Rogan appearance included, but were not limited to:

Calling the government “out of control” and “lawless” in their Covid response

Stating mandates of “experimental” vaccines are “explicitly illegal”

Noting that India had success in treating Covid early with drugs like ivermectin

Saying “half a million” excess deaths have occurred due to government actions

Arguing those with natural immunity have higher risk of vaccine adverse events

Alleging that people are living through a mass formation psychosis"


https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mainstream-media-losing-fight-its-lifeall-thanks-joe-rogan
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 11, 2022, 01:31:16 PM
Tense exchange today between Fauci and Senator Rand Paul.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on January 11, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
https://brassballs.blog/home/china-ecohealth-ccp-human-genome-hgp-fauci-francis-collins-peter-daszak-fredhutch-larry-corey-communist-niaid-nih-wuhan-cn-greater-good-pledge-allegiance-whiov-cas-unmc-nebraska-unemed-duke-nus-bats
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 12, 2022, 05:51:59 PM
Quote

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki confirmed a mandate to limit chicken noodle soup was recommended by the CDC. “As in the case of Ivermectin, a known horse de-wormer, many people were attempting to self-medicate with a hot bowl of soup. This is giving people a false sense of security and leading to violent overdoses in which belching and nausea occurred,” she clarified.


https://babylonbee.com/news/stores-refusing-to-sell-chicken-noodle-soup-after-rumor-covid-patients-are-using-it-to-feel-better
Title: Lefty policies about the Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on January 14, 2022, 10:34:10 AM
Authoritarian policies that abrogate individual rights put everyone’s freedom perpetually at risk.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 14, 2022, 10:53:20 AM
Quote

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki confirmed a mandate to limit chicken noodle soup was recommended by the CDC. “As in the case of Ivermectin, a known horse de-wormer, many people were attempting to self-medicate with a hot bowl of soup. This is giving people a false sense of security and leading to violent overdoses in which belching and nausea occurred,” she clarified.

https://babylonbee.com/news/stores-refusing-to-sell-chicken-noodle-soup-after-rumor-covid-patients-are-using-it-to-feel-better

That is funnier than most of Wiz’s posts. :ROFL:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 14, 2022, 12:39:04 PM
Authoritarian policies that abrogate individual rights put everyone’s freedom perpetually at risk.


Did you intend to post a link about something or were you just making a statement?  :laugh:


https://babylonbee.com/news/pfizer-ceo-condemns-scotus-ruling-as-a-clear-violation-of-our-constitutional-right-to-billions-in-profits
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 14, 2022, 12:42:11 PM
I see this as a partial victory only. If a health care worker has had Covid they don't need a leaky vaccine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-blocks-vaccine-rule-for-companies-allows-health-care-worker-mandate/ar-AASKL8L
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 14, 2022, 04:00:00 PM
Depopulation agenda?


https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/01/06/the-population-is-being-killed-off-with-covid-mrna-vaccines/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on January 14, 2022, 05:58:14 PM
Depopulation agenda?


https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/01/06/the-population-is-being-killed-off-with-covid-mrna-vaccines/

Oh man, if depopulation was the agenda, a vaccin would never have been allowed to develop because covid would've been a slaughterhouse.

Please turn on critical thinking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 14, 2022, 06:55:46 PM
Depopulation agenda?


https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/01/06/the-population-is-being-killed-off-with-covid-mrna-vaccines/

Oh man, if depopulation was the agenda, a vaccin would never have been allowed to develop because covid would've been a slaughterhouse.

Please turn on critical thinking.


Sorry Mark, it's you who should turn on the critical thinking.

We'll never know for sure how many people are dying of heart issues after taking these leaky vaccines, but there are legitimate Doctors who say it is an issue.

Many people don't live to report the issue, or they don't realize the issue is related to the experimental vaccine they just took.

One thing is for sure: those are indeed experimental vaccines, and the makers of them have been granted immunity from paying for damages.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 14, 2022, 07:13:36 PM
Russian site in Russian which is anti Vaxx, that is to say anti Sputnik vaccine.

http://stopvaczism.org


And, supposedly Russia is asking businesses to ask a customer for a QR code, proving their vaccination status. In reality people hired to check QR codes have been beaten up. One guy was even stabbed. So in reality they seem to be giving up on this.

https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/russias-qr-code-regime-is-collapsing


(https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_640,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F__ss-rehost__IG-CVap51HgEaH.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 14, 2022, 07:18:35 PM
Interview in English about what is happening in regards to Covid, in Russia.


https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/i-believe-we-are-facing-an-evil-that
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 23, 2022, 06:53:01 PM
Anit-mandate rally in WA DC.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-dc-defeat-mandates-march-covid-vaccine
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 23, 2022, 09:06:01 PM
Former Utah Jazz star John Stockton is anti-mask and anti- experimental "vaccine". In fact he states that over 100 pro athletes who have taken the vaccine have died because of it. Gonzaga has suspended his season tickets because he refused to wear a mask to their games.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/gonzaga-stockton-mask-mandate/2022/01/23/id/1053627/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 24, 2022, 08:58:31 AM
It appears the UK has now reached herd immunity. Many of the rules are being scrapped in England this week (the tyrannical regimes in Scotland and Wales will drag their feet):

-----------------------------------------

From 27 January, the government will no longer mandate the wearing of face masks anywhere.

Mandatory Covid status certification will also end.

The work-from-home guidance has been lifted immediately.

However, self-isolation is still a legal requirement for people who have tested positive, but from 17 January the isolation period was reduced from seven to five days, provided that people got two negative tests on the fifth and sixth days.

During his speech on Wednesday, Johnson said: "As we return to Plan A, the House will know that some measures still remain, including those on self-isolation.

"In particular, it is still a legal requirement for those who have tested positive for Covid to self-isolate."On Monday we reduced the isolation period to five full days with two negative tests."

During his speech to the Commons, the PM also broke down the days that parts of Plan B would be brought to a stop.

He said: "From the start of Thursday next week mandatory certification will end," referring to the need for Covid passports when entering large venues.

He did however add that: "Organisations can, of course, choose to use the NHS Covid Pass voluntarily but we will end the compulsory use of Covid status certification in England.

"From now, the government is no longer asking people to work from home and people should now speak to their employers about arrangements for returning to the office.

"And having looked at the data carefully, the Cabinet concluded that once regulations lapse, the government will no longer mandate the wearing of face masks anywhere."

Source (https://www.gbnews.uk/news/covid-plan-a-return-announced-heres-what-to-know-about-new-restrictions/211917)

-------------------------------------------

In other news, the ONS has revealed after an FOI request by GB News that the true deaths from Covid (as opposed to with Covid) are just 17000. Nigel Farage comments:

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 24, 2022, 11:17:49 AM
I think the with and from thing is a tad misleading.

Many of the deaths were premature. The Covid was what tipped the balance. It is going to be very hard to untease the cases where somebody died with some other issue and Covid exacerbated the issue, leading to death. A friend's boyfriend (hardly a boy, he was in his 50s) died in hospital after a heart attack while suffering from Covid. Would he have had the heart attack without Covid? Hard to tell, but the additional stress from Covid led, it seems to his death.

Don't forget, there were no people in hospital who did not need to be there. A large part, possibly the greatest part of the precautions we took were to relieve the stress on health services. Had people been unable to get the care they needed the number of deaths would certainly have been way higher in all countries.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 24, 2022, 01:01:56 PM
I think the with and from thing is a tad misleading.

Many of the deaths were premature.

Not so many. The average age is over 80 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on January 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
I think the with and from thing is a tad misleading.

Many of the deaths were premature.

Not so many. The average age is over 80 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19).
I’d probably be most interested to know how many of the under 65 age group were grossly overweight as well. I’m guessing a lot
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 24, 2022, 03:00:14 PM
A person can live a long life while obese.

Are you suggesting that fat people should die?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 24, 2022, 03:11:26 PM
Are you suggesting that fat people should die?

The left use that technique of reframing the discussion using terms never mentioned. Tut tut....
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 24, 2022, 04:58:20 PM
A person can live a long life while obese.

Are you suggesting that fat people should die?


Yes, you should die.  :ROFL:

But not today.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Orchid on January 24, 2022, 05:40:17 PM
A person can live a long life while obese.

Are you suggesting that fat people should die?


Yes, you should die.  :ROFL:

But not today.

Not even funny.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 24, 2022, 06:28:29 PM
Russel Brand does a great job of breaking it all down.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on January 24, 2022, 11:11:15 PM
Are you suggesting that fat people should die?

The left use that technique of reframing the discussion using terms never mentioned. Tut tut....
Good spot, also it didn’t address any aspect of the question
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 25, 2022, 02:31:13 AM
First, suggesting that I am part of a made-up group labelled 'left' is risible. In most situations, giving people labels displays a lack of thought.

Second, what other inference should one draw from Bruce's question?
We know that huge numbers of people died with Covid who had something else wrong with them. Should those people be disregarded? Is it acceptable that they should be allowed to die by not, as a society, choosing to protect the whole of society?

There's at least one person writing on this thread who has close experience of unexpected issues caused by covid as a result of comorbidity. Do those people not matter? Should we not protect them - whether or not they were aware of those comorbidities?

We know from what we see right now in the USA that comorbidities are leading to higher rates of serious illness due to their preexisting, but not life-threatening conditions. I would not be too surprised if, in the USA in particular, there was a change in public health strategy to deal with and reduce the level and impact of those conditions upon public health. And yes, preeminent among them is obesity - but so is age.

There are two basic choices we make as individuals in a society. I have written before about them.
One is to take an individualistic approach. Damn everybody else, I am OK so I need take no action.
The other is to say, I am a member of a society, I have a duty toward other members of that society and so I will be willing to inconvenience myself in order to protect and defend the other members of that society. Most of us fall between two extremes on a scale.

In those terms, I expected that I did not need to be vaccinated to keep me from serious illness or death. Masking and social distancing were not going to give me any great benefits. I could therefore have chosen to ignore those matters. Many, many people went down that route to a greater or lesser degree.

On the other hand, I have tended to follow the route of societal good. I got vaccinated, took care to keep my distance from others and wore a mask. It is also true that one reason I got vaccinated was in order to get the 'certification' that enabled me to travel. It was a practical choice but it still had a benefit to society, I was incentivised to comply.

I doubt that many readers of this thread are so dumb as to imagine that most people dying of Covid did not have comorbidities, including obesity.

I took Bruce's point as a rhetorical question. He, because he isn't totally stupid, already knew that a large number of people who died with Covid were overweight. It is no secret, it is not news. So his question did not need an answer, but he was making an implicit point, a point to which I responded.



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 25, 2022, 07:53:58 AM
One could also deduce that when there was a strong flu season going, that many of the people who succumbed to it resulting in death also had comorbidity's.

Obviously in years past the government did not shut down small businesses and order people to social distance, wear a mask, etc.

People had the good common sense to stay home on their own for the most part, until they were over it. And yet it went thru the population, until the healthy ones had built up their immune systems with a new strain of the flu.

This harkens back to the research that those who exercise, get their rest, take their Vitamin C and zinc etcetera, will survive what nature throws at them and their immune systems will be stronger as a result.

And it harkens back to having proper sanitation: clean drinking water, clean restrooms at a gas station, clean restrooms at a grocery store and especially clean restrooms, floors, counters, etcetera at a hospital.

This is the old argument about a clean fish bowl for the fish or simply giving the fish antibiotics every time they get sick.

One method of having a clean terra relies on the fish having healthy food and their own immune systems, the other assumes the fish can never get well without a new medicine, which of course a large drug company has been hired to produce.

The closure of businesses has affected mostly small businesses here in the USA, which will never come back. Large companies were rewarded huge covid financial relief. That is essentially what the left complains as "fascism". Collusion between large corporations and government to the detriment of small mom and pop companies.

What gave government the right to choose the winners and losers? What gave government the right to harm the education and psychology of small children? What gave government the right to harm everyone, instead of only requesting the elderly and sick to remain at home?

The damage to the economy as a whole is enormous as has been the damage to peoples psychology. What professionals are calling "mass formation psychosis" is real.

Now there are these twits as I previously posted who need someone to wear a mask at a zoom event, because of their fear of someone without a mask, even though it's a zoom event. And some fool in HR at the company goes along with it.

This event has been used for political reasons, to create a new class of fearful zombies who will obey their government masters at all costs, due to their comorbidity of fear. A new class of slaves has been created and the government types who are abusive intend to capitalize on this control.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bruce Lee on January 25, 2022, 10:31:30 AM

I took Bruce's point as a rhetorical question. He, because he isn't totally stupid,
It’s been a tough week, I’ll take that as a compliment!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 25, 2022, 10:40:36 AM
Some good news for you all.


John Campbell is reporting on a paper published by the CDC a few days ago.

The paper suggests that natural immunity conferred from Covid-19 gives very good immunity to serious events following reinfection.
Further, there is no significant enhancement conferred by vaccination over natural infection.

This means that boosters offer no additional protection against serious events - as long as you have, at some point, had a Covid infection.

It is worthwhile to watch the video in its entirety.

From the data, it is clear that without vaccination, the risk of serious events following infection is many times (17 times?) greater than if one has either natural or vaccinated immunity. The guy is NOT suggesting not getting vaccinated because he is not a fool and he can count. However, in the world of Omicron, from what he says, I infer that he is leaning toward the idea that for him, a vaccinated person with no natural immunity, to be infected with Omicron is not a bad thing. His reasoning seems to be (and he mentioned this in a previous video) that we know vaccinated immunity wanes over time. If we are all going to be exposed to Oicron then it is probably better to get it while under the strong effect of vaccination. If one gets Omicron after vaccinated immunity has waned then the risk of a more serious outcome will increase from the current negligible level to a significantly higher one.

What the research does not tell us is whether there are groups of people for whom an ongoing vaccination regime is optimal. The cohorts studied were whole population samples. Now we have this information, I am sure that further studies will be done to look at the edge cases, the smaller groups for whom risks are greater.

After posting, one thought occurred, the risk ratio may differ in different countries and places given that the risk of serious events is based, in large part, upon comorbidities. As we know, not all possible comorbidities are known to the individuals concerned. We can largely see obesity, but, for example, in the USA, a huge number of people live with undiagnosed hypertension - blame the third world levels of health care that is the reality for many millions of USAians.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 25, 2022, 10:42:18 AM

I took Bruce's point as a rhetorical question. He, because he isn't totally stupid,
It’s been a tough week, I’ll take that as a compliment!

It certainly was not an insult.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on January 25, 2022, 11:53:37 AM
This means that boosters offer no additional protection against serious events - as long as you have, at some point, had a Covid infection.

The Lancet said the same (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00676-9/fulltext#.YZP1wWuqf3J.twitter).
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 26, 2022, 05:44:14 PM
In a victory for Liberty the Biden Administration has withdrawn the requirement for employees of private companies to get vaccinated.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-administration-officially-withdraws-vaccine-210233683.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AJ on January 26, 2022, 06:30:11 PM
I'm finally recovering from my recent bout with it.
Hopefully good for awhile.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: NS1 on January 27, 2022, 03:32:14 AM
lastest Variant now on sale " stealth Omicron"
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 27, 2022, 09:03:56 AM
Yes, there were pointers toward the benefits of natural immunity. As the article Manny linked reported, we already knew that protection after infection was a 'thing' but there was much that was unknown at the time. The article does not, as far as I can see, comment upon the effectiveness of booster jabs.

Now, for the first time, we have large scale research conducted over time. We now know, from the CDC research, the relative benefits of vaccination and non-vaccination. We know more about the boosters against Omicron (which seems not to be the same as against Delta). We now know something about timescales and immune response duration.

It seems to me that those defining public policies need to be inherently more cautious than an individual or those not responsible for the well-being of millions. Imagine what would have been the public response had governments assumed that post-infection immune response was long-lived and then we discovered that it was not?

NB. I am trying to use 'immune response' rather than immunity because these are not at all the same things. For example, while we know the current vaccines, just as earlier infections, are not good at giving immunity to Omicron, we know that the immune response is strong. We also now know that Omicron provides very effective protection against earlier forms of Covid. So, while I might get a Covid infection tomorrow, I can be pretty confident that I will not suffer badly from it. That's a strong immune response as compared to weak immunity.

Overall, we are fortunate that we in the UK and the US have had the opportunity to get vaccinated and that Omicron has now come along to finish off the job of creating large scale immunity and the even more important reductions in serious effects of Covid infection.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 27, 2022, 12:49:20 PM
Covid 19: A Second Opinion

Quote

"Johnson opened Monday’s meeting, entitled “COVID-19: A Second Opinion,” by noting that the U.S. ranks 22nd in the world in terms of mortality caused by the coronavirus — at 2,575 deaths per million cases.

By way of comparison, Sweden is ranked 63rd, with 1,514 deaths per million."


https://www.patriotproject.com/sen-ron-johnson-chairs-forum-covid-treatments-failures-us-pandemic-response/


Twitter feed of Mary Bowden MD

https://twitter.com/MdBreathe/status/1485718426278633472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1485718426278633472%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patriotproject.com%2Fsen-ron-johnson-chairs-forum-covid-treatments-failures-us-pandemic-response%2F
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on January 27, 2022, 12:54:03 PM
Covid 19: A Second Opinion

Quote

"Johnson opened Monday’s meeting, entitled “COVID-19: A Second Opinion,” by noting that the U.S. ranks 22nd in the world in terms of mortality caused by the coronavirus — at 2,575 deaths per million cases.

By way of comparison, Sweden is ranked 63rd, with 1,514 deaths per million."


https://www.patriotproject.com/sen-ron-johnson-chairs-forum-covid-treatments-failures-us-pandemic-response/

I can imagine ms (Moby) foaming when he reads this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on January 28, 2022, 01:51:23 PM
https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/

I am on the FLCCA (Corona Viruses) Immune Fortifying Prevention Protocol at basically double the doses in the table and 2 times per day with my VA "Comorbidity" meds...  So far not even a winter sniffles...  prior years I would have a cold that lingered for up to 6 weeks and in March/April 2020 the first outbreak of Cov19 was likely the more virulent Italian strain via NYC - I had a dry constant hacking cough for 8 weeks with 3 to 4 weeks of no Smell or Taste which is normal Cov19 brain damage - now I can only smoke strong cigars (Paris' Pasteur Institute Cov19 Smokers Paradox research study) with strong whiskey, cognac or tawny porto chaser sipped to wash down any oral Cov19 colonies.  Note you are using too much Vitamin C when your bunghole turns into an exploding liquid high-pressure defecation pump - aka your arse explodes and the blowback from your commode is serious so be prepared to take a shower afterwards...

https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/

1. Vitamin D3 6,000 iu two times a day

2. Vitamin C 2,000mg twice a day

3. Quercetin 500mg with 100mg Zinc twice per day  NOTE Quercetin must not be consumed same days as ivermectin but can be alternated for several days  - Quercetin is a well-tolerated supplement that is an ionophore of Zinc allowing the Zinc to be absorbed into all human cells disrupting the enzymes Viruses need to replicate.  Ivermectin is the high Octane version of Zinc ionophores.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F32YZPC

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32930657/   NOTE source is the bloody Megele Mass Murderer Fauci's own NIH!  Can not make this stuff up folks.

4. Men's 50+ Multivitamins with no iron twice per day to keep up minimums of essential minerals.

5. I only use melatonin on the weekends because I can often sleep through work alarm clocks (6:30 AM) and Melatonin knocks me out so much I can sleep in til noon.

New Hampshire State House had hearings on making Ivermectin an over-the-counter drug like aspirin or Tylenol... Live Free or DIE baby!

In the meantime Where to get Ivermectin a true safe miracle drug that saves millions of lives:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/pharmacies/

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/videos-and-tutorials-on-ivermectin/

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 29, 2022, 08:52:43 AM
https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/

I am on the FLCCA (Corona Viruses) Immune Fortifying Prevention Protocol at basically double the doses in the table and 2 times per day with my VA "Comorbidity" meds...  So far not even a winter sniffles...  prior years I would have a cold that lingered for up to 6 weeks and in March/April 2020 the first outbreak of Cov19 was likely the more virulent Italian strain via NYC - I had a dry constant hacking cough for 8 weeks with 3 to 4 weeks of no Smell or Taste which is normal Cov19 brain damage - now I can only smoke strong cigars (Paris' Pasteur Institute Cov19 Smokers Paradox research study) with strong whiskey, cognac or tawny porto chaser sipped to wash down any oral Cov19 colonies.  Note you are using too much Vitamin C when your bunghole turns into an exploding liquid high-pressure defecation pump - aka your arse explodes and the blowback from your commode is serious so be prepared to take a shower afterwards...

https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/

1. Vitamin D3 6,000 iu two times a day

2. Vitamin C 2,000mg twice a day

3. Quercetin 500mg with 100mg Zinc twice per day  NOTE Quercetin must not be consumed same days as ivermectin but can be alternated for several days  - Quercetin is a well-tolerated supplement that is an ionophore of Zinc allowing the Zinc to be absorbed into all human cells disrupting the enzymes Viruses need to replicate.  Ivermectin is the high Octane version of Zinc ionophores.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F32YZPC

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32930657/   NOTE source is the bloody Megele Mass Murderer Fauci's own NIH!  Can not make this stuff up folks.

4. Men's 50+ Multivitamins with no iron twice per day to keep up minimums of essential minerals.

5. I only use melatonin on the weekends because I can often sleep through work alarm clocks (6:30 AM) and Melatonin knocks me out so much I can sleep in til noon.

New Hampshire State House had hearings on making Ivermectin an over-the-counter drug like aspirin or Tylenol... Live Free or DIE baby!

In the meantime Where to get Ivermectin a true safe miracle drug that saves millions of lives:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/pharmacies/

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/videos-and-tutorials-on-ivermectin/


Excellent list. My understanding is that you can only assimilate up to 500mg of Vitamin C once ever two hours. Therefore purchase it in that portion and if you want to take that much (4,000 mg a day) then you need to take 500mg once every two hours until you accomplish the total you want to take. Otherwise you are wasting money and peeing it out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 29, 2022, 08:53:28 AM
Kid Rock isn't going to perform at venues which require masks and mandate proof of a vaccine.


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kid-rock-wont-perform-venues-vaccine-mandates-on-tour-211822490.html
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on January 29, 2022, 10:47:29 AM
This L.A. School Called the Cops on Unvaccinated Teens Who Showed Up for Class
https://reason.com/2022/01/28/this-l-a-school-called-the-cops-on-unvaccinated-teens-who-showed-up-for-class/
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on January 29, 2022, 10:59:44 AM
Trucks roll into Ottawa for protest against Canada's vaccine mandates
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-canada-trucking/ottawa-set-for-massive-protest-against-canadas-vaccine-mandates-idUSKBN2K308U


Canada has vaccination percentages over 80%. Do they need to need a significantly
higher percentage for some reason? Some percentage has had covid, some
percentage are babies or people who shouldn't take it, some percentage won't
take it even if you put threatened to put a bullet in their heads.

What percentage of people think that this is about control vs for the health
and safety of others?

(https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-coverage/#a3)
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on January 29, 2022, 11:33:25 AM
I couldn't find a Canadian article about what percentage of Canadians have
already caught the virus in one of it's forms

One in Three Americans Already Had COVID-19 by the End of 2020
https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/one-three-americans-already-had-covid-19-end-2020
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on January 29, 2022, 11:50:26 AM
I couldn't find a Canadian article about what percentage of Canadians have
already caught the virus in one of it's forms

One in Three Americans Already Had COVID-19 by the End of 2020
https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/one-three-americans-already-had-covid-19-end-2020


It's actually more than 2/3rds of Americans have already had CV19.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on January 29, 2022, 11:58:49 AM
It is hard to k ow how many people have had covid-19. Not everybody has been tested. Some are asymptomatic while still spreading it.

What can be measured are antigens. In the UK about 98% of the population now has antigens meaning they have been exposed to the virus. It is part of the reason that restrictions have been lifted there.

Of course, a large part of that high Antigen rate is down to Omicron - the vaccine that science did not create.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on January 31, 2022, 11:49:46 AM
LOL, I had the VA test for Sars-Cov2 antibodies a couple of months ago during the period blood draws they do for A1C levels, etc and I do have the antibodies however they could not determine if it was from natural immunity from the original virulent strain from Italy - by way of Chinese Fashion workers flooding Italy then by way of NYC into the USA.

Since the VA is a gov agency with MDs touting the CDC, FDA and NIH party line - vaccines good, therapeutics (Medicines) bad  I got the distinct sense they did not want to indicate that Natural Immunity antibodies were possibly more effective than the Mengele Clot Shots Death Vaxxes.
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on February 01, 2022, 06:39:31 AM
Trucks roll into Ottawa for protest against Canada's vaccine mandates
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-canada-trucking/ottawa-set-for-massive-protest-against-canadas-vaccine-mandates-idUSKBN2K308U


You can't have those truckers getting outside help protesting against the Covid Nazi's.
Now the Truckers have to explain how they will spend the money that they raised and
it must meet approved Nazi standards.

Quote from the Truckers GoFundMe page doesn't sound like they approve of the official leftist
position of group obedience and ideological purity above all else. They should be content to be Driving alone
in a semi truck with three masks, a Che Guevara button and having the proper number of booster(s) 

"Our current government is implementing rules and mandates that are destroying the foundation
of our businesses, industries and livelihoods. We are a peaceful country that has helped protect
nations across the globe from tyrannical governments who oppressed their people, and now it
seems it is happening here."


GoFundMe for Canadian truckers approaches $10M, more than country's political parties raised last quarter
The GoFundMe had been frozen until organizers offered a detailed plan regarding how funds would be spent

https://www.foxnews.com/world/gofundme-for-canadian-truckers-approaches-10m-raising-more-than-canadian-political-parties-last-quarter


(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/01/1862/1048/AP22029659754984.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 02, 2022, 11:54:22 PM
50,000 Truckers in Canada protest against tyranny by Trudeau. Just as Bill posted about above. Here's more to add to what he posted.

https://humansarefree.com/2022/01/canadian-truckers-take-back-country-from-the-great-reset.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 03, 2022, 03:14:41 AM
I think it is safe to say that those who thought that they were being propagandised had been misleading themselves.

I have posted information about this issue, but the headline is that the CDC, following research, has found that natural immunity following infection is about as effective against the Delta variant as a full course of vaccinations.

The problem that the CDC and other organisations face is that they need to be data-driven. They cannot give advice based upon guesses and the most fallible of tools 'common sense'.

However, we also know, based upon good quality data, that the risk of serious effects from covid infections is way higher than from a course of vaccination.

Thus, the public policy still needs to be to recommend vaccination for those who have not had a covid-19 infection from which they have recovered.

Hopefully, public policy in the USA will follow that in Europe where in most cases, recovery from infection is treated as equivalent to a course of vaccination.

We also know that Omicron gives good immunity against infection from all earlier variants and that even in those with comorbidities the risk of adverse outcomes from infection with Omicron is lower than from Delta. However, it seems that vaccination still gives a good margin of protection against adverse effects from Omicron.

I am sure that if the CDC was all about propagandising and dissembling about the vaccination policy then the research they undertook would either have not been carried out or would have been suppressed.

Bottom line: if you do not get vaccinated but you are infected and recover, I think, based upon the data we now have, that it is reasonable to treat vaccinated and recovered people as equivalent to fully vaccinated in most situations.



Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on February 17, 2022, 07:54:09 AM
(http://www.jewishworldreview.com/strips/mallard/2000/MFT20220211.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 17, 2022, 08:09:32 AM
Bill, it does rather seem that way!

I do not think I have had the Omicron variant and I am thrice-jabbed. However, I had suggested popping round to socialise with a couple of friends who were in isolation following infection with Omicron. Kinda like the old chicken pox parties when I was a sprout. They, being much more cautious of my good health than I am, have refused. Although they too were fully vaccinated they both reported feeling pretty shitty and wanted that I did not feel as bad as they!

Over here we are pretty much the kings of omicron infections at the moment so it can only be a matter of time before I get the bug. Whodathunkit, we have a natural vaccination against all previous and probably future versions of the bug.

I wonder if some clever Chinese whipped Omicron up in a lab and gave it to the world as a gift to the future of humanity? :)
Title: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on February 21, 2022, 01:15:08 PM
The C.D.C. Isn’t Publishing Large Portions of the Covid Data It Collects
https://dnyuz.com/2022/02/20/the-c-d-c-isnt-publishing-large-portions-of-the-covid-data-it-collects/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 21, 2022, 01:22:48 PM
Fraudulent clinical data?

Moderna stock down by 70%?

https://battleplan.news/watch?id=620eac26dac6860c0a32d2ae
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on February 21, 2022, 05:00:18 PM
With regard to the data, it seems that there are issues related to privacy. And, I am sure, other considerations.

The data has to be gone through to separate it from any personally identifiable fields and the it must be recollated so that the residue is actually useful.

I can understand that. Years ago I worked in a small market research department. I am aware of some of the issues given that the original research was formulated for scientific purposes, assessing the effectiveness and safety of the the research vaccines. There were many more candidates thrilled than eventually put into production.

There's a vast amount of data. But it is not like just deleting a names column in Excel.
The data must be cleaned of identifying data then have new forms of anonymous identity added.

Then the data needs to be represented so that it can be examined in a meaningful way by people unconnected with that original research data.

It's a big job. If the mess it up in some apparently insignificant way it'll be a tough job to be able to solve any errors once the original identifiers have been removed.

These are historic documents, not just something to gawp over and be impressed by tawdry headlines. They are part of human history. There has never been anything like this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 14, 2022, 09:22:36 PM
NO more tests required!

Update from GOV.​UK for:

Entering England during coronavirus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Travel to England from another country during coronavirus (COVID-19)
Page summary:
Check what COVID-19 tests you need to take and the self-isolation rules for travel to England.

Change made:
If you will arrive in England after 4am, Friday 18 March, you do not need to take any COVID-19 tests or fill in a UK passenger locator form.

Time updated:
6:19pm, 14 March 2022

 









Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 20, 2022, 12:35:50 PM
NO more tests required!
The U.K. might have to rethink that position soon; Omicron BA.2 has been running amuck in Europe. There have already been surges centered around international hubs in the States.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2022, 12:37:30 PM

Paranoia will destroya TomT. Are you still triple masked with face shield?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 21, 2022, 02:23:31 PM

Paranoia will destroya TomT. Are you still triple masked with face shield?

Are you still retarded, Billy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 21, 2022, 10:33:20 PM

Paranoia will destroya TomT. Are you still triple masked with face shield?

Are you still retarded, Billy?

Related questions from Andrew's Big Book of Questions: With Obvious Answers:
Is water wet?
Is sky blue?
Is grass green?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 22, 2022, 07:21:38 PM
Andrew,

I made it a point to respond to his sarcastic rhetorical question with the same tone and tenor. It's doubtful that the dunce will pick up on that but it will suffice that he understands "retarded." I hate using that word, however, an important principle of creative writing (and public speaking) is to consider the audience... so I did; I wrote at a fourth-grade level.
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on March 23, 2022, 06:02:37 PM
The U.K. might have to rethink that position soon; Omicron BA.2 has been running
amuck in Europe. There have already been surges centered around international
hubs in the States.

Welcome back,

I haven't heard much about this variant. I think the news media can barely handle
more than one or two things at a time. What's a good place to familiarize myself
about it, that doesn't require a degree in biology?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 23, 2022, 09:14:48 PM
Bill,

This one doesn't get involved in biology; it just discusses how BA.2 is spreading. The article didn't specifically state that it's arriving in the U.S. via transportation hubs, especially those ones that have direct flights to/from the U.K., Germany, Italy, France and Denmark. As you probably know, it's wildly impractical to test every traveler arriving in the United States and there is no political will to mandate it in any case. Therefore, there is little else to do but hunker down and wait for the sixth wave.   

https://www.businessinsider.com/omicron-europe-surge-ba2-us-wave-likely-coming-2022-3
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on March 24, 2022, 03:36:14 AM
Bill,

This one doesn't get involved in biology; it just discusses how BA.2 is spreading. The article didn't specifically state that it's arriving in the U.S. via transportation hubs, especially those ones that have direct flights to/from the U.K., Germany, Italy, France and Denmark. As you probably know, it's wildly impractical to test every traveler arriving in the United States and there is no political will to mandate it in any case. Therefore, there is little else to do but hunker down and wait for the sixth wave.   

https://www.businessinsider.com/omicron-europe-surge-ba2-us-wave-likely-coming-2022-3

The Netherlands has been doing so well, we have now abolished the last rules (mouth masks in public transport & work-from-home advice)

Other rules were already stopped earlier (mandatory work-from-home , 1.5m distancing, no nightclubs / parties, mouth masks in all public places inside buildings)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 24, 2022, 04:07:46 AM
Andrew...
'''I hate using that word, however, an important principle of creative writing (and public speaking) is to consider the audience... so I did; I wrote at a fourth-grade level.
 

Yes, I get it.

When I first got involved in copywriting, I was trained by my marketing director to write at 6th-grade level because that was the average reading level in the USA. It was a tough ask, but good practice.

These days, when writing for money I consider the reading level of the audience and sometimes use it as a way to qualify the prospect. But isn't it a scary society where most people can only read at the level of children?

It tends to give context to the difficulties that people here and elsewhere have with understanding the world around them. Most of the time our leaders and communicators are dealing with adults with the mental development of kids.

Don't even get me started on the mental capacity of some of our leaders - USAian VP for example.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 24, 2022, 07:26:51 AM
I've had a minor man cold all week and had a negative lateral flow on Tuesday. I had a face to face work appointment today and was headed to the gym afterwards so I decided to take another test. Got two positive results......I decided to take a second one because I gagged all over the first mouth swab and assumed it was 'contaminated'.  :chuckle:

Thankfully I feel fine and hopefully its out my system quick. Better now than two weeks on Saturday, when we're off to Sicily for the week.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 24, 2022, 07:29:19 AM
My mother got the lurgy last Friday. She sounded rotten when I spoke to her. Typical hypochondriac though. When I spoke to her on Tuesday she sounded proper chipper but was moaning that she felt no better.

Omicron - the natural vaccine that science didn't make.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 24, 2022, 07:33:45 AM
My mother got the lurgy last Friday. She sounded rotten when I spoke to her. Typical hypochondriac though. When I spoke to her on Tuesday she sounded proper chipper but was moaning that she felt no better.

Omicron - the natural vaccine that science didn't make.

The main thing is that your mum's ok  tiphat

During lockdown I didn't have a single cold or cough but last year when we started to get on with things, I suffered from several shitty colds. I felt crap on Tuesday night/yesterday morning but feel better today.

In fact my worst covid incident so far was my reaction to the first and third vaccine. Felt rubbish for days and suffered a fever both times.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 24, 2022, 07:43:55 AM
Yes, I am glad she is OK. I did not have any great concerns about it, She is fully vaccinated and, as we know, Omicron is pretty innocuous.

My next cold, when I get it, is going to be a monster.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 24, 2022, 01:27:22 PM
But isn't it a scary society where most people can only read at the level of children?

What's scary is someone participating on forums for decades, having ample opportunity to see examples of good writing and making no more progress than our resident child groomer has.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 24, 2022, 01:36:01 PM
But isn't it a scary society where most people can only read at the level of children?

What's scary is someone participating on forums for decades, having ample opportunity to see examples of good writing and making no more progress than our resident child groomer has.

OK  who is the resident child groomer?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 24, 2022, 03:33:48 PM
Tom might be thinking of the guy who believes that the current leader of North Korea is dead.
Or maybe the bloke who thinks that former president Trump is the rightful president of the United States.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: yankee on March 24, 2022, 03:37:34 PM
Tom might be thinking of the guy who believes that the current leader of North Korea is dead.
Or maybe the bloke who thinks that former president Trump is the rightful president of the United States.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 24, 2022, 08:39:00 PM
It's probably no coincidence that he admires a guy who boasted about being a predator.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: TomT on March 25, 2022, 09:10:10 AM
Omicron is pretty innocuous.

You shouldn't be too quick to write Omicron off; Jong-Koo Lee's prediction was a bit high but his analysis was quite good.

"To exemplify this reasoning using concrete data, according to a press release on February 21, when comparing the delta- and Omicron-infected patients from the third week of January to the third week of February, the severity rate decreased from 1.4% to 0.38%, and the fatality rate decreased from 0.7% to 0.18%. These rates both decreased to a quarter of the initial level, but the total number of patients increased by 15.6 times, so it is possible that the number of critically ill patients or the number of deaths might quadruple."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8907608/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on March 25, 2022, 01:27:56 PM
Omicron has just gone through the UK like a Mexican wave. Its nothing.

A triple-jabbed woman who works for me was just off a few days with Covid for the second time. Her only symptoms this time were a sore throat and a hoarse voice. Only because at a hospital appointment for something unrelated did they insist on testing her she knew she had it again. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 25, 2022, 02:07:20 PM
I tested positive on Wednesday and I’m feeling much better tonight. Hopefully tomorrow I’m back to normal.

Many of my friends and colleagues have been testing positive over the last few weeks but nearly all of them have experienced a couple rough days then feel fine, waiting on a double negative.

Hopefully this is the new covid, the common cold.

Our cleaner is a lady who’s had some serious health issues over the years. She caught it this week and was proper panicking, worrying about intensive care etc. She’s already feeling much better but was scared shitless given what she’s read in the media.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 30, 2022, 02:22:48 PM
My wife has been triple vaccinated but on Mondy the 21st March she arrived home to tell me that she is infected.......and must Isolate.

I never had any vaccinations neither I indent to have any!

The last couple of days she was tested Negative..... and despite every day I was Negative while she was positive TODAY we had another test..... she is Negative but I am positive.Well All day I was feeling fine, temperature No higher than 37.2 C and tommorrow will have another test. During the day I did not notice any changes and still feel fine, like I was feeling alll last week.

She was insulated in the bedroom but  I choosed to sleep on our extra double bed and kept her happy doing all necessary cooking, washing and keeping the place  clean and eared etc.

To be honest at this moment I feel absolutely fine......but I will wait to test tommorrow morning again.

It looks that my symptons are mild and maybe I will get away easy.
Wife is a fussy pot and will be better when she goes back to work on Friday.

C'est la vie ... Tha's Life!

 :biggrin:



Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 31, 2022, 04:16:28 AM
My wife has been triple vaccinated but on Mondy the 21st March she arrived home to tell me that she is infected.......and must Isolate.

I never had any vaccinations neither I indent to have any!

The last couple of days she was tested Negative..... and despite every day I was Negative while she was positive TODAY we had another test..... she is Negative but I am positive.Well All day I was feeling fine, temperature No higher than 37.2 C and tommorrow will have another test. During the day I did not notice any changes and still feel fine, like I was feeling alll last week.

She was insulated in the bedroom but  I choosed to sleep on our extra double bed and kept her happy doing all necessary cooking, washing and keeping the place  clean and eared etc.

To be honest at this moment I feel absolutely fine......but I will wait to test tommorrow morning again.

It looks that my symptons are mild and maybe I will get away easy.
Wife is a fussy pot and will be better when she goes back to work on Friday.

C'est la vie ... Tha's Life!

 :biggrin:

Hopefully it stays that way.

I got rid of my symptoms over the weekend, got my double negative on Monday and did a PCR test. PCR came back saying I was positive and since then my lateral flows have got a really faint second line. I've had the luxury of not having to see anyone face too face for business this week but I'm really missing the gym/pool and need a haircut. The whole things just a minor annoyance.

Still a little grotty in the mornings, similar to post cold symptoms but I was never really that bad at the height of it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: andrewfi on March 31, 2022, 04:27:10 AM
I hope that all who get the current iteration of the lurgy have only the mild form.

I do not think I have had Omicron - still - despite having been in close contact with a person who only a day or two later tested positive. However, after our meeting, I had a couple of days when I felt rather lethargic. Not the fatigue I previously experienced and no other symptoms. I am not planning to test myself.

What seems absolutely the case is that those who have been vaccinated tend to have a much lighter experience even with the overall much lighter experience with Omicron.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on March 31, 2022, 04:44:00 AM
I hope that all who get the current iteration of the lurgy have only the mild form.

I do not think I have had Omicron - still - despite having been in close contact with a person who only a day or two later tested positive. However, after our meeting, I had a couple of days when I felt rather lethargic. Not the fatigue I previously experienced and no other symptoms. I am not planning to test myself.

What seems absolutely the case is that those who have been vaccinated tend to have a much lighter experience even with the overall much lighter experience with Omicron.

Mrs Rosco has continued to live as normal over the last week. Living, cooking, eating, sleeping & working together. I had suggested that I retire to the spare room but she wasn't for that option.

She's tested negative the whole time. For a virus we've been told is so transmissible that you can catch it just by looking at someone, it all seems a bit odd.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on March 31, 2022, 06:24:15 AM
Wiz, Hope you and your better half are soon on some island in the Aegean Sea, soon. Av
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on March 31, 2022, 04:35:33 PM
To be honest since I had my first positive test on Wendsday monning and today the second one again Positive. I have not had almost any symptoms.

No High temperature, No coughing, No problem with my taste or breathing and No tired or any fatigue. Today was very cold ouside.... My wife decided to go shopping.....and told me it was snowing. She passed the isolation period and and tommorrow she is going to work.

I hope alll of you, friends and relatives who told me that maybe I can go through very lightly to be right! I will let you know when it's over after 10 days.

As about the Greek islands....Maybe late summer or Autum but first priority has Mama and looking to find the best way for wife to to travel there!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 01, 2022, 12:21:38 AM
I caught the Delta variant last July and had some respiratory discomfort and a headache for 2 days. I took some ibuprofen for the headaches and felt fine on day 3.

I decided to self-isolate for about 10 days and was back to my normal social activities on day 11, even though I was good to go after the 4th day.

I also tested positive for antibodies in November.

I then caught omicron in January and again self-isolated for 7 days, had relatively mild symptoms for a couple of days including a headache, and was back to my normal activities after my isolation.

To say "they" handled this virus badly would be the understatement of the millennial IMO.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 01, 2022, 01:33:56 AM
I caught the Delta variant last July and had some respiratory discomfort and a headache for 2 days. I took some ibuprofen for the headaches and felt fine on day 3.

I decided to self-isolate for about 10 days and was back to my normal social activities on day 11, even though I was good to go after the 4th day.

I also tested positive for antibodies in November.

I then caught omicron in January and again self-isolated for 7 days, had relatively mild symptoms for a couple of days including a headache, and was back to my normal activities after my isolation.

To say "they" handled this virus badly would be the understatement of the millennial IMO.

Can you please clarify what exactly do you mean with your above coment?

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on April 01, 2022, 01:51:52 AM
I caught the Delta variant last July and had some respiratory discomfort and a headache for 2 days. I took some ibuprofen for the headaches and felt fine on day 3.

I decided to self-isolate for about 10 days and was back to my normal social activities on day 11, even though I was good to go after the 4th day.

I also tested positive for antibodies in November.

I then caught omicron in January and again self-isolated for 7 days, had relatively mild symptoms for a couple of days including a headache, and was back to my normal activities after my isolation.

To say "they" handled this virus badly would be the understatement of the millennial IMO.
Oh BTW, I have never been vaccinated.

Wiz, basically the lockdowns, rollout of the vaccines, closing of businesses/hospitals, essential workers' mandate/forced firings, retirement home debacles, mask/vaccine mandates, withholding information about alternatives treatments, disinformation by MSM, etc.. Those are just off the top of my head.

Many of the things that were discussed previously.

Tell me what "they" did right? It's a much shorter list.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 01, 2022, 05:05:35 AM
I caught the Delta variant last July and had some respiratory discomfort and a headache for 2 days. I took some ibuprofen for the headaches and felt fine on day 3.

I decided to self-isolate for about 10 days and was back to my normal social activities on day 11, even though I was good to go after the 4th day.

I also tested positive for antibodies in November.

I then caught omicron in January and again self-isolated for 7 days, had relatively mild symptoms for a couple of days including a headache, and was back to my normal activities after my isolation.

To say "they" handled this virus badly would be the understatement of the millennial IMO.
Oh BTW, I have never been vaccinated.

Wiz, basically the lockdowns, rollout of the vaccines, closing of businesses/hospitals, essential workers' mandate/forced firings, retirement home debacles, mask/vaccine mandates, withholding information about alternatives treatments, disinformation by MSM, etc.. Those are just off the top of my head.

Many of the things that were discussed previously.

Tell me what "they" did right? It's a much shorter list.

Well just for you to read an excellent article explaining everything and what our well known charitable Billionairs  gates, soros etc......

Biggest Lie in World History:
The Data Base is Flawed. There Never Was A Pandemic.
The Covid Mandates including the Vaccine are Invalid


The PCR "Covid-19 Confirmed Cases" are Meaningless. The Multibillion Dollar Antigen and Home Test Project is Fake

Destabilizing the social, political and economic structure of 190 sovereign countries cannot constitute  a “solution” to combating the virus. But that was the imposed “solution” which was implemented in several stages from the very outset of the corona crisis in January 2020.  It’s the destruction of people’s  lives. It is the destabilization of civil society.

Fake science was supportive of this devastating agenda. The lies were sustained by a massive media disinformation campaign. 24/7, Incessant and Repetitive “Covid alerts” in the course of the last two years.

The  historic March 11, 2020 lockdown triggered economic and social chaos Worldwide. It was an act of “economic warfare”: a war against humanity.

This diabolical agenda has undermined the sovereignty of nation states.

It has contributed  to a wave of bankruptcies. It has impoverished people Worldwide.

It has led to a spiralling dollar denominated global debt.

The powerful structures of global capitalism, Big Money coupled with its intelligence and military apparatus are the driving force.

Using advanced digital and communications technologies, the lockdown and “closure” of the global economy is unprecedented in World history.

Read all here:
Biggest Lie in World History: (https://www.globalresearch.ca/biggest-lie-in-world-history-the-data-base-is-flawed-there-never-was-a-pandemic-the-covid-mandates-including-the-vaccine-are-invalid/5772008)

And when you finish reading the above .. you may like to be educated with this one too.

I-MASK+ Prevention & Early Outpatient Treatment Protocol for COVID-19 (https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/)


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on April 10, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
People here think western countries are bad about requirements of the virus. China has omicron virus which is mild, and they are locking everyone down over it. It is so contagious it will likely spread anyway. Glad I do not live there.

https://www.arcamax.com/currentnews/newsheadlines/s-2661748
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on April 11, 2022, 05:41:57 AM
People here think western countries are bad about requirements of the virus. China has omicron virus which is mild, and they are locking everyone down over it. It is so contagious it will likely spread anyway. Glad I do not live there.

https://www.arcamax.com/currentnews/newsheadlines/s-2661748

Obviously you don't have the Mental Capacity to read and understand what I and others have been posting here.

I am happy to say that I never been vaccinated and having gone through the infection, that now I am free and with 2 Negative tests to enjoy my life.. Of course it takes longer to clear your body from left overs and I am happy that I did not smoke for the past 4 years and hope will be easier...

Meanwhile the "Evil Empire", as "Reagan used to calll the USSR", has been  replaced today by the USA Hegemonic diabolical agenda that is undermining the Sovereignty of every Nation round the Globe and it has contributed  to a wave not only in bankruptcies but it has also impoverished people Worldwide.

So which of the two Empires was/is the more Evil?

No matter of what you say, we all know who has financed the Whuhan Biolambs with Millions of Dollars and is responsible of all the dead people and also for the Biolabs in Ukraine.... Mr Faoutsi!

I never thought you will be so ignorant! You are just a waste of space and effort!



 
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 26, 2022, 10:07:39 AM
There is a new documentary movie out about the Coronavirus vaccine and its effects. This movie is highly controversial and thus should be watched.

https://diedsuddenly.info/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 26, 2022, 11:59:05 PM
Contrarian,

The flip side of the coin:

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/mike-adams-flawed-analysis-clot-embalmer-richard-hirschman-doesnt-demonstrate-link-between-blood-clots-and-covid-19-vaccines-epoch-times/

Key takeaway:

The Oxford-AstraZeneca and the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines have been associated with very rare cases of blood clots with low platelets, a condition known as vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia. However, COVID-19 itself is much more likely to increase the risk of blood clots, particularly in patients with moderate and severe COVID-19. Furthermore, recent research indicates that this risk might remain elevated for up to six months following infection. COVID-19 vaccines are currently the best tool to prevent COVID-19-associated blood clots, as well as other cardiovascular complications.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on November 27, 2022, 09:15:54 AM
There is a new documentary movie out about the Coronavirus vaccine and its effects. This movie is highly controversial and thus should be watched.

https://diedsuddenly.info/

It’ll be met with quick demonization the way the Great Barrington Declaration did (even despite it now being proven true ).

https://gbdeclaration.org/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2022, 09:39:00 AM
There is a new documentary movie out about the Coronavirus vaccine and its effects. This movie is highly controversial and thus should be watched.

https://diedsuddenly.info/

It’ll be met with quick demonization the way the Great Barrington Declaration did (even despite it now being proven true ).

https://gbdeclaration.org/


Sure, no doubt the global Pharma empire will try to dismiss it.

However people are truly waking up and thinking for themselves.  tiphat
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2022, 09:42:14 AM
Contrarian,

The flip side of the coin:

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/mike-adams-flawed-analysis-clot-embalmer-richard-hirschman-doesnt-demonstrate-link-between-blood-clots-and-covid-19-vaccines-epoch-times/

Key takeaway:

The Oxford-AstraZeneca and the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines have been associated with very rare cases of blood clots with low platelets, a condition known as vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia. However, COVID-19 itself is much more likely to increase the risk of blood clots, particularly in patients with moderate and severe COVID-19. Furthermore, recent research indicates that this risk might remain elevated for up to six months following infection. COVID-19 vaccines are currently the best tool to prevent COVID-19-associated blood clots, as well as other cardiovascular complications.


Natural immunity has proven to be longer lasting and obviously safer, for a virus which was never even properly scientifically realized, and one which has similar results to the common flu. Either people can behave like foolish sheep and trust their health to the nefarious intentions of the likes of Bill Gates, an obvious charlatan and profiteer, or they can use the time tested principal which has worked for thousands of years; namely natural immunity.

Quote

"It’s long past time for us to say no more to the science deniers.

It’s time for us to stand up to Washington bureaucrats who think you’re not smart enough to make your own decisions. It’s time for us to stand up to people who write columns ignoring 100 years of immunity science just to score cheap — and incorrect — political points.

These petty tyrants in government and their enablers in the media always think they know best. They deal in the currency of fear, hoping to scare the American people into submission."


https://www.paul.senate.gov/courier-journal-op-ed-rand-paul-science-proves-people-natural-immunity-should-skip-covid-vaccines
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2022, 10:21:37 AM
Oops.

Most Covid deaths are among the vaccinated. And this appeared in a MSM article!  :o


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 27, 2022, 10:48:12 AM
Oops.

Most Covid deaths are among the vaccinated. And this appeared in a MSM article!  :o


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/

Of course, if most folks are vaccinated, a larger percentage of folks that die will have been vaccinated.  Despite this, the answer is in the article:

Let’s take a look at deaths in August, when the highly contagious BA.5 variant reached its peak:

That month, unvaccinated people aged 6 months and older died at about six times the rate of those who had received their primary series of shots.
People with one booster dose were even better protected. Unvaccinated people over the age of 5 had about 8 times the risk of dying from a coronavirus infection than those who received a booster shot.
Among individuals who were eligible to receive additional booster shots, the gap is even more striking. Unvaccinated people 50 and up had 12 times the risk of dying from covid-19 than adults the same age with two or more booster doses.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 27, 2022, 11:16:35 AM
There are blood clots with covid-19 also. Natural immunity does not last long with covid and is ineffective with new strains. Vaccination less effective as disease mutates and less effective as the date of receiving them is further in the past. This virus likely to not go away soon. The population will never get natural immunity and the vaccine immunity will never last for long. So welcome to our new world of covid. They have a new version of the vaccine for omicron. I hope to get it soon but will not like help much into next year when we have another new strain.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2022, 02:35:23 PM
Oops.

Most Covid deaths are among the vaccinated. And this appeared in a MSM article!  :o


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/

Of course, if most folks are vaccinated, a larger percentage of folks that die will have been vaccinated.  Despite this, the answer is in the article:

Let’s take a look at deaths in August, when the highly contagious BA.5 variant reached its peak:

That month, unvaccinated people aged 6 months and older died at about six times the rate of those who had received their primary series of shots.
People with one booster dose were even better protected. Unvaccinated people over the age of 5 had about 8 times the risk of dying from a coronavirus infection than those who received a booster shot.
Among individuals who were eligible to receive additional booster shots, the gap is even more striking. Unvaccinated people 50 and up had 12 times the risk of dying from covid-19 than adults the same age with two or more booster doses.



I'm assuming that you will be getting your next booster shot, which makes me happy. Buh bye!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 27, 2022, 04:34:38 PM
Yes, When the doctor recommends it.

After three shots I still do not glow in the dark and nothing has following off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 27, 2022, 05:42:23 PM

I'm assuming that you will be getting your next booster shot, which makes me happy. Buh bye!  :laugh: :laugh:
I just had the original 2 shots, and then had COVID 2ce... since I was ok both times, I will not be requiring any booster shots.

And if you say natural immunity is better, well of course it is. But you get that by contracting Covid in the first place. The vaccine just meant for you to handle it better / not get sick at all.

Im pretty sure that without initial covid-shots, I'd be on the ventilator at least. So good for me, yay.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on November 27, 2022, 08:48:14 PM

I'm assuming that you will be getting your next booster shot, which makes me happy. Buh bye!  :laugh: :laugh:
I just had the original 2 shots, and then had COVID 2ce... since I was ok both times, I will not be requiring any booster shots.

And if you say natural immunity is better, well of course it is. But you get that by contracting Covid in the first place. The vaccine just meant for you to handle it better / not get sick at all.

Im pretty sure that without initial covid-shots, I'd be on the ventilator at least. So good for me, yay.

Nah. Natural immunity happened very quickly for most persons. They just didn't want you to know it. The masks were not effective and they know it. Those were part of the Psyop -- fear, anxiety, paranoia 24/7 by the media. Some of us got Omicron after all of that and got well with an inexpensive treatment that they mocked.  :coffeeread:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on November 27, 2022, 09:32:43 PM
I never got vaccinated and had COVId twice. Wifey was vaxxed twice and had COVId twice.

For what this is all worth.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on November 28, 2022, 02:32:02 AM
I never got vaccinated and had COVId twice. Wifey was vaxxed twice and had COVId twice.

For what this is all worth.
A good friend of mine got COVID and died.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 28, 2022, 05:06:04 AM

I just had the original 2 shots, and then had COVID 2ce... since I was ok both times, I will not be requiring any booster shots.

And if you say natural immunity is better, well of course it is. But you get that by contracting Covid in the first place. The vaccine just meant for you to handle it better / not get sick at all.

Im pretty sure that without initial covid-shots, I'd be on the ventilator at least. So good for me, yay.

Nah. Natural immunity happened very quickly for most persons.

How come people here keep getting it twice?
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on November 28, 2022, 08:52:04 AM
How come people here keep getting it twice?

Likely depends on a person's general daily living routine and behavior. The more social or mobile one is the more exposure one submits itself to. (https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2022/05/18/covid-reinfections#:~:text=According%20to%20some%20infectious%20disease,fourth%20reinfections%20within%20a%20year.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on November 28, 2022, 10:09:44 AM
Why you need ALL of your mRNA BOOSTERS:

https://usawatchdog.com/cv19-ai-bioweapon-from-infection-to-injection-karen-kingston/

https://usawatchdog.com/fda-covered-up-cv19-vax-biological-catastrophe-dr-peter-mccullough/

https://usawatchdog.com/mass-medical-bankruptcy-collapse-coming-dr-elizabeth-eads/

https://usawatchdog.com/global-cv19-vax-propaganda-means-mass-casualties-dr-pierre-kory/

AND:

“Hell No” to Any CV19 Vax – Lt. Col. Theresa Long MD
By Greg Hunter On August 13, 2022,

https://usawatchdog.com/hell-no-to-any-cv19-vax-lt-col-theresa-long-md/

When a Lt.Col. US Army Flight Surgeon becomes a Whistle Blower you have to pay attention when she presents evidence that mRNA and J&J "Vaccines" are disabling and killing young healthy Military Pilots at the peak of their lives and service.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 28, 2022, 02:03:32 PM
It's probably safe to say, that vaccines reduce the effects of covid for some who catch it but there are clearly side effects which are being conveniently ignored by those in government and big pharm. I'm guessing the powers at be decided that the risk of potential side effects was lesser than the risk to the minority who would get hammered being unvaccinated.

That kinda makes me uncomfortable because the stigma assigned to anymore who dared question the safety of vaccinations, was pretty severe. Ironically, our media are now celebrating the lock down protests in China, whilst demonising lock down protesters in the west during 2020. All rather hypocritical but they don't seem to care.

I'm 42, had two doses of vaccine and caught covid once, which was pretty mild. In fact I was really ill following both vaccinations and felt terrible for 48 hours after. I don't think I'll take another vaccine any time soon and I had felt pressured to take the vaccine due to what was being said in the media, social media and of course the ability to travel/covid passports.

We were being told about all the benefits of the covid vaccine (some of it now disproven like transmission) at the time and very little about the side effects and realities many of us would face post injection. I don't think vaccinating or locking down absolutely everyone was necessary.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on November 28, 2022, 02:37:16 PM
Rosco,

IIRC there were either microchips that would allow the government to control your mind or magnetic poison in the vaccine. Other variations as well. All quite absurd, but many believed the hype.  The archives here and there are filled with such nonsense.

Yeah, there were side effects, a bit worse than flu shots I was already used to, but that's how it works.  You made a good choice.

(https://i.postimg.cc/6qxkgv5q/Screenshot-2022-11-28-at-22-31-57.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on November 28, 2022, 03:38:53 PM
Rosco,

IIRC there were either microchips that would allow the government to control your mind or magnetic poison in the vaccine. Other variations as well. All quite absurd, but many believed the hype.  The archives here and there are filled with such nonsense.

Yeah, there were side effects, a bit worse than flu shots I was already used to, but that's how it works.  You made a good choice.

(https://i.postimg.cc/6qxkgv5q/Screenshot-2022-11-28-at-22-31-57.jpg)

Lol there's always going to be extremists with anything topical. The micro chip claim was a cracker  :laugh:

I'm more of the opinion that not every drug is good for everyone and through fear, we all just kinda cracked on and assumed it would be worse not to take the shot. I also think that the risks were glossed over and we were treated like kids when it came to the information.

Sadly I'm not privy to all the data but I suspect that had the vaccine been tested over a longer, less rushed period, it might have been tweaked or not given to certain people at all, as a result of those risks. Our government was telling us to take the vaccine even if we didn't think we needed it, to protect others, which was of course a load of rubbish and it played on ones emotional guilt....call it blackmail.

Perhaps naively, I felt that I didn't need the vaccine to survive, given my age and health but I was happy to see my parents being given the vaccine. If I had been in a certain group then I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on November 28, 2022, 06:08:59 PM
Zero Covid policy of China is turning out to be the worse policy of all. Almost no one in the country have natural immunity and the vaccine they made is next to worthless against new strains.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 03, 2022, 12:18:28 AM
Some of you guys may remember me posting a link to the CDC with expected deaths each week in America. They are usually on target. A few years they miscalculated the strain of flu virus and got the vaccine wrong and the numbers of deaths exceeded the expected deaths for a few weeks or months during those winters.

When COVID came out, the amount of deaths exceed expected deaths on a regular basis throughout the year. There's no doubt COVID has killed people

Now, what is alarming is that WHO and the economist both have done calculations and know Covid amounts to less than 50% of deaths exceeding the expected deaths. Of course COVID numbers have been inflated so we know COVID deaths are less than stated. What is killing people more than COVID now? It's not a pathogen. It's vaccines. This is short term effects of the vaccines. The long term effects are health problems that will decrease lifespans.

Here it is again, Bill Gates, biggest vaccine pusher in history, telling an audience he can reduce the population by 15% with vaccines.

https://t.me/stewpeters/18729

I've attached a file which shows WHO's and the Economist's calculations. For example, the Economist estimates as high as 20 million excess deaths happened on Jan3, 2022 and which 5 million of those deaths came from COVID. Note the website was last updated Nov 12, 2022 but they stopped updating excess deaths with and without COVID past Jan 3, 2022. The numbers keep getting uglier. I'm not surprised they stopped looking for the truth.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Governments aren't spending any money to figure out where the deadlier excess deaths other than COVID are coming from. They don't really care about us. Keep pumping in experimental vaccines into your body though! It won't stop COVID but you'll make Bill Gates happy.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 03, 2022, 12:27:43 AM
Zero Covid policy of China is turning out to be the worse policy of all. Almost no one in the country have natural immunity and the vaccine they made is next to worthless against new strains.


Their vaccines are worthless? Is that what our propaganda media is saying? All coronavirus vaccines are worthless and deadly. They've known about that for over 60 years of trying. Our medical scientists aren't any better than China's or Russia's when it comes to coronavirus vaccines.

China is only trying out the zero COVID strategy on a few cities, not all of China. It's a test to see how people react to total authoritarian control. I've seen the videos where armies of "health authorities" in white full body hazmat suits beating the sh!t out of people protesting on the street. China isn't the only one trying out authoritarian controls.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on December 03, 2022, 07:35:32 AM
Zero Covid policy of China is turning out to be the worse policy of all. Almost no one in the country have natural immunity and the vaccine they made is next to worthless against new strains.


Their vaccines are worthless? Is that what our propaganda media is saying? All coronavirus vaccines are worthless and deadly. They've known about that for over 60 years of trying. Our medical scientists aren't any better than China's or Russia's when it comes to coronavirus vaccines.


I have never had any symptoms from having covid though I most likely to have been exposed a number of times. Just maybe it works sometimes. I sure do not go out of my way to try to get exposed more to test it. The Russian vaccine is rated much higher than the Chinese vaccine. Brazil sent the Chinese vaccine back as worthless and they are pretty much pro Chinese.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BillyB on December 03, 2022, 09:34:03 AM
The Russian vaccine is rated much higher than the Chinese vaccine. Brazil sent the Chinese vaccine back as worthless and they are pretty much pro Chinese.


Exactly who's doing these ratings? Did they fact check it to be true? Lol.

There's very little money spent on safety and efficacy testing these experimental vaccines since the formula is changing every 6 months. Keeping our nation and the world in a state of emergency gives governments the right to push new experimental vaccines and now pills on the population.

Why would they spend money testing our experimental vaccines against other experimental vaccines anyway? The virus caused trillions of dollars of damage to the world's economies and our pocketbooks and there were zero dollars spend to find and destroy the animal reservoir that gave us the virus. That's because they KNEW is was lab created and leaked intentionally. When governments are serious about keeping us safe, they'll find and destroy 20 million birds after 6 people die from the bird flu. That was in the past. Today's governments are infiltrated by WEF members. So today's governments have determined there are too many people on earth so they need some of us to die. They can't just kill us but they can get us to volunteer to kill ourselves. The over 100 biolabs Obama built around the world will make sure there are plenty of pathogens available to keep the world in a state of medical emergency.

In the future, men who are unvaccinated will be highly sought after by the ladies for breeding purposes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on January 09, 2023, 10:19:53 PM
The newest COVID-19 variant is so contagious that even people who've avoided it so far are getting infected and the roughly 80% of Americans who've already been infected are likely to catch it again, experts say.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/people-who-haven-t-had-covid-will-likely-catch-xbb-1-5-and-many-will-get-reinfected-experts-say/ar-AA162RpI?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ENTPHB&cvid=670f6f5c22f24c50a70dcbfd78ccec12
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on January 10, 2023, 09:33:50 AM
A BOMBSHELL new report claims [yet to be confirmed, GR] that the Department of Defense – meaning the Pentagon – controlled the COVID-19 Program from the very beginning.

If true, it means that everything we were told was political theater, right down to the FDA vaccine approval process.

Our guest today is a former executive of a pharmaceutical contract research organization Sasha Latypova and she shows what she has researched.

BOMBSHELL docs reveal Covid-19 COVER-UP
goes straight to the top
Redacted with Clayton Morris



A comment from yo tube:
@twowheelsdown2002
@twowheelsdown2002 2 days ago

I had numerous coworkers with severe vaccine injuries at Davis Monthan Air Force Base.  Numb hands, tinnitus, blood clots, anaphylaxis, joint pain, myocarditis etc. I requested management report them up the chain of command.

They refused to investigate and verify the injuries and elected to cover it up. I was told “Shut up and take your jab!” I refused and was discriminated against and finally retired, unjabbed and uninjured.

Read more comments on the Youtube... post

Shame shit same culprits...... the America Mafia state!

Wa
it for the CIA trollls to educate us !

 :biggrin: :hidechair: :'(
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 05, 2023, 06:47:56 PM
Project Veritas gets a senior Pfizer executive on camera, making some pretty awful confessions (BC will be along shortly, to try to tell you that he doesn't admit what he is admitting). In this video he admits that the Pfizer vaccine appears to be causing serious problems for a female menstruation cycle.

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/new-pfizer-director-jordon-trishton-walker-shares-concern-for-covid-vaccine/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 05, 2023, 06:50:23 PM
In this video the same executive admits that Pfizer is exploring mutating the virus as a method of making more profit on the new matated virus, that they deliberately created. He also admits that Pfizer has been using lab monkeys in order to achieve this. Where is the outrage from Peta?

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/pfizer-executive-mutate-covid-via-directed-evolution-for-company-to-continue/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 05, 2023, 06:56:51 PM
Military documents about gain of function contradict Fauci testimony.

https://www.projectveritas.com/video/military-documents-about-gain-of-function-contradict-fauci-testimony-under/
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: cufflinks on February 05, 2023, 09:20:58 PM
At Least 1 Billion Dead or Disabled from CV19 Bioweapon – Dr. Betsy Eads
By Greg Hunter On February 4, 2023

https://usawatchdog.com/at-least-1-billion-dead-or-disabled-from-cv19-bioweapon-dr-betsy-eads/

FYI Bottom of the article lists most effective COVID AND spike protein mitigation therapeutics as discussed in the interview video.

It is possible to treat COVID and the spike proteins and save your life unless the spike proteins clot shots are doing severe damage to your internal organs and brain..in that case time to update your Last Will and Testament.


###
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on February 05, 2023, 10:06:35 PM
At Least 1 Billion Dead or Disabled from CV19 Bioweapon – Dr. Betsy Eads
By Greg Hunter On February 4, 2023

https://usawatchdog.com/at-least-1-billion-dead-or-disabled-from-cv19-bioweapon-dr-betsy-eads/

FYI Bottom of the article lists most effective COVID AND spike protein mitigation therapeutics as discussed in the interview video.

It is possible to treat COVID and the spike proteins and save your life unless the spike proteins clot shots are doing severe damage to your internal organs and brain..in that case time to update your Last Will and Testament.


###


In the past, Pfizer has paid 2.3 Billion dollars in fines, for deceptive marketing according to one of the reporters who caught up with the CEO of Pfizer at Davos. They really grill this guy good, and he won't answer a single question. No big surprise of course.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pfizer-settlement/pfizer-to-pay-2-3-billion-agrees-to-criminal-plea-idUSTRE5813XB20090902

(video of the scrum between Ezra Levant of Rebel Media and Pfizer CEO Bourla)
https://rumble.com/v2658gm-caught-him-rebel-news-pummels-pfizer-ceo-with-questions-at-world-economic-f.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Wiz on February 27, 2023, 08:48:19 PM
U.S. Energy Department Changes Its Stance On The Origins Of COVID-19

UPDATED 4:45 PM PT – Monday, February 27, 2023

The U.S. Energy Department has concluded in a recent classified document that the COVID-19 pandemic most likely came from a Wuhan laboratory.

Both the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times reported on Monday that a classified intelligence report, recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress, said that the COVID-19 pandemic likely began after an unintentional laboratory leak in Wuhan, China.

    Jan. 31, 2020: Fauci learned the “virus looks engineered.”

    Despite that, for two years, “fact checkers” and Fauci told us otherwise.

    Now, even Joe Biden’s Department of Energy says #COVID19 most likely came from a lab.

    Was anyone honest with us?
    — Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) February 27, 2023

Although the Biden administration still holds the view that there is no consensus over the origins of the COVID-19 virus, some in the intelligence community have arrived to different conclusions. According to sources, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Energy Department have recently come together concluding the virus most likely spread from a mishap at a Chinese laboratory.

Some who have read the classified report said that the Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence.”

U.S. officials have declined to give any details regarding the new intelligence that led to the change in position. Officials added that the FBI and the Energy Department most likely arrived at those conclusions for completely different reasons. It’s been reported that four other government agencies still hold the position that the COVID-19 pandemic was likely the result of a “natural transmission.” Two other agencies have remained undecided.

    “We have a responsibility to every American to get to the bottom of the origins of COVID-19,” said Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-Wash.), chairman of the U.S. Energy and Commerce committee.

        Okay, now what?

https://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001qhWUF5OrKrpW0AC7DjPU87Va0iDoOKzgEn7eU9iq9lXCPBbNI-kdakGaWGKLFTvSYIgORS2EvFtWTpci00V05AV-8ZK_mg260zrZotxWj9dHXYLYy88ku4eSuo4fo7aROEQA8fisNNwDGN6N8MLNpjyCsY36eoSryCPXmX86JEvO22bBgcNgwjQQeqT3PjREQaQvLzQhMK_0YoJfEo2Je5n_1orJ0MJCMQ9DjXcULXLciEFlBfqh-A==&c=DBzHmyiZwggEI0JJHgOfqqjiwk6ALwaC48jtISrAy3_-A9M86jffMA==&ch=acwqymgmM5u8OMzYI_GrMt8wb1Udop3szt5u6X-Id4fn26om5YN1zQ==
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on February 28, 2023, 01:04:39 AM

        Okay, now what?[/left]


Nothing has changed, only the opinion of one of many agencies, with a low level of confidence.  That's nothing different from what was already known.

I'd like to know the origins of the virus as well, but the facts have not yet been established, with a high degree of confidence.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Valenki on April 04, 2023, 11:44:02 PM
... I'd like to know the origins of the virus as well ...
Who wouldn't?

... but the facts have not yet been established, with a high degree of confidence.
I don't believe that and I don't think you believe it either. It's like the older pinball tables. Once you knock a ball up the ramp it always comes back down in the same place unless you shove the machine and foul it.

Probably the biggest mysteries in the modern day are the assassinations of John Kenndy and & Olof Palme & the sabotage of the Nordstrom Pipe Line. Who did it? We know who did it but the perpetrator has all of the cards and all of the spies in "the right place" inside the UN. Am I suggesting the same crook is responsible for releasing COVID? I might be.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: 2tallbill on July 09, 2023, 05:46:47 PM
I'd like to know the origins of the virus as well, but the facts have not yet been established, with a high degree of confidence.

Sure it has. The orgin of covid is in China. What was never established was the
changing Covid rules, closures of schools and businesses and mandatory vaccines
ordered by various lefty's.

There was never any rhyme or reason to their rules. There was never a logical,
legal reason to force law abiding Americans to take experimental vaccines.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Manny on August 17, 2023, 05:10:43 AM
There was a joke on GB News recently that Putin should get the credit for curing Coronavirus.

The rationale for this was that since the conflict in Ukraine started, hardly a word has been said in the media about the virus, it just went away overnight.

Poof!
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 17, 2023, 06:05:30 AM
The Biden administration once declared it was dispatching a team of investigators to determine the origin of the virus. It was said it is owed Americans and the world to finally get to the bottom of it.

You just knew one cannot take that seriously, right? Right?!?

Can one imagine ultimately validating Trump’s allegation to be true after demonizing him and his idea it came from the Wuhan lab? One which we were not only involved in but was actually financing!!

That’s akin to cooking meth in your garage and at the same time organizing an anti-drug campaign and sending an investigating team to carry it out.

I digress. For one, here’s what the article said…

Quote
Although the Biden administration still holds the view that there is no consensus over the origins of the COVID-19 virus, some in the intelligence community have arrived to different conclusions. According to sources, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Energy Department have recently come together concluding the virus most likely spread from a mishap at a Chinese laboratory.

Unless you need another cup of coffee to wake up, you can’t find anything, about anything, that which doesn’t exist.

The media had dumb the public. Heck maybe our troubled world today is due to the dumbing of those behind these reporting. The public mindlessly lap it up, or just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Faux Pas on August 17, 2023, 07:37:21 AM

Unless you need another cup of coffee to wake up, you can’t find anything, about anything, that which doesn’t exist.

The media had dumb the public. Heck maybe our troubled world today is due to the dumbing of those behind these reporting. The public mindlessly lap it up, or just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’

The internet is scrubbed daily for anything that might oppose the narrative. The narrative is doled out by the same group of elitists who proclaimed the wet market in Wuhan theory. When that failed to get any traction suddenly there was evidence of it originating from a bat cave in some obscure providence in China. All along all of the evidence pointed to the highly secure Wuhan lab in China funded by the NIH under the direction of Fauci the Obama administration and Dr Bill Gates. Oh wait, he isn't a doctor.

All of the media is highly controlled. We are all living in a replication of China, North Korea or Iran. If one is to get a smidgen of truth it will be from an independent news source and even that is peppered with misinformation and misdirection and not available for long before it too, is scrubbed. Most of the world's population apparently has scales over their eyes and ears. I am afraid there is more that do, than those who don't.

On the surface it appears that there are many dots to connect and the vast majority is just too lazy to do that. In fact there are very few to connect but few are capable of doing that. I use to wonder how Hitler could convince an entire country to follow his lead. I do not wonder that anymore. The same fundamentals in which he accomplished that has now been done worldwide by seemingly the very same folks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 17, 2023, 08:28:55 AM

Unless you need another cup of coffee to wake up, you can’t find anything, about anything, that which doesn’t exist.

The media had dumb the public. Heck maybe our troubled world today is due to the dumbing of those behind these reporting. The public mindlessly lap it up, or just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’

The internet is scrubbed daily for anything that might oppose the narrative. The narrative is doled out by the same group of elitists who proclaimed the wet market in Wuhan theory. When that failed to get any traction suddenly there was evidence of it originating from a bat cave in some obscure providence in China. All along all of the evidence pointed to the highly secure Wuhan lab in China funded by the NIH under the direction of Fauci the Obama administration and Dr Bill Gates. Oh wait, he isn't a doctor.

All of the media is highly controlled. We are all living in a replication of China, North Korea or Iran. If one is to get a smidgen of truth it will be from an independent news source and even that is peppered with misinformation and misdirection and not available for long before it too, is scrubbed. Most of the world's population apparently has scales over their eyes and ears. I am afraid there is more that do, than those who don't.

On the surface it appears that there are many dots to connect and the vast majority is just too lazy to do that. In fact there are very few to connect but few are capable of doing that. I use to wonder how Hitler could convince an entire country to follow his lead. I do not wonder that anymore. The same fundamentals in which he accomplished that has now been done worldwide by seemingly the very same folks.

Sad, but the above is largely the truth. I feel sorry for those who swallow hook, sinker and line the majority of the BS that is reported for ‘news’. It is not unlike living in ‘The Truman Show’.

From the movie; "We Accept The Reality Of The World With Which We're Presented. It's As Simple As That."

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Texan77 on August 17, 2023, 09:30:08 AM
There was a joke on GB News recently that Putin should get the credit for curing Coronavirus.

The rationale for this was that since the conflict in Ukraine started, hardly a word has been said in the media about the virus, it just went away overnight.

Poof!

My doctor during me last visit a week or so ago said it was making a comeback. They will have a new version of the shot available in September. I do not know about the media, but the medical community is very aware of it. Older patients like me are being informed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 17, 2023, 09:41:41 AM
Expect the quantity of news regarding the virus to follow the same path.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2638QZJS/Screenshot-2023-08-17-at-17-40-01.jpg)
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 17, 2023, 11:22:44 AM

Unless you need another cup of coffee to wake up, you can’t find anything, about anything, that which doesn’t exist.

The media had dumb the public. Heck maybe our troubled world today is due to the dumbing of those behind these reporting. The public mindlessly lap it up, or just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’

The internet is scrubbed daily for anything that might oppose the narrative. The narrative is doled out by the same group of elitists who proclaimed the wet market in Wuhan theory. When that failed to get any traction suddenly there was evidence of it originating from a bat cave in some obscure providence in China. All along all of the evidence pointed to the highly secure Wuhan lab in China funded by the NIH under the direction of Fauci the Obama administration and Dr Bill Gates. Oh wait, he isn't a doctor.

All of the media is highly controlled. We are all living in a replication of China, North Korea or Iran. If one is to get a smidgen of truth it will be from an independent news source and even that is peppered with misinformation and misdirection and not available for long before it too, is scrubbed. Most of the world's population apparently has scales over their eyes and ears. I am afraid there is more that do, than those who don't.

On the surface it appears that there are many dots to connect and the vast majority is just too lazy to do that. In fact there are very few to connect but few are capable of doing that. I use to wonder how Hitler could convince an entire country to follow his lead. I do not wonder that anymore. The same fundamentals in which he accomplished that has now been done worldwide by seemingly the very same folks.

Sad, but the above is largely the truth. I feel sorry for those who swallow hook, sinker and line the majority of the BS that is reported for ‘news’. It is not unlike living in ‘The Truman Show’.

From the movie; "We Accept The Reality Of The World With Which We're Presented. It's As Simple As That."



It amazes me to no end how prophetic and brilliant our nation's forefathers really were when they constructed the foundation of our 'once great' nation. Thomas Jefferson had warned us over two centuries ago when he said:

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost!"

Not too long ago, the 'current' president (if one can call him that) went public in advocating censoring counter narrative calling it 'disinformation', knowing well enough it was theirs and their media that were guilty of the charges they front.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 17, 2023, 01:56:16 PM

It amazes me to no end how prophetic and brilliant our nation's forefathers really were when they constructed the foundation of our 'once great' nation. Thomas Jefferson had warned us over two centuries ago when he said:

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost!"

Not too long ago, the 'current' president (if one can call him that) went public in advocating censoring counter narrative calling it 'disinformation', knowing well enough it was theirs and their media that were guilty of the charges they front.

Our rights or freedoms are not absolute.  The First Amendment regards the government abridging speech or the press.  Biden was not asking to do such.  What you are asking for is for the government to force the press and other commercial enterprises to print something they don't want to print.  The right not to print or say something is also protected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 17, 2023, 04:02:27 PM
Our rights or freedoms are not absolute.

Give it a try and explain your ‘thinking’. Let’s watch BC wiggle.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on August 17, 2023, 08:51:55 PM
just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’

When was this said? I can't find it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: AvHdB on August 17, 2023, 09:35:35 PM
just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’
When was this said? I can't find it.

Perhaps the quote attributed to G. Orwell is the basis. “The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.”
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 17, 2023, 09:45:13 PM
just as MSNBC’s Mika once declared on TV, (pp) ‘it is up to us to decide what the public believe!’

When was this said? I can't find it.

2017. The exact statement quoted was,

Quote from: Mika Brzezinski
"Well, I think the dangerous edges here are that he's (referring to DJT) trying to undermine the media, he's trying to make up his own facts. And it could be that while unemployment and the economy worsen, he could have undermined the messaging so much that he can actually control exactly what people think. And that, that is our job."

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 17, 2023, 10:11:12 PM
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO02/20220914/115106/HHRG-117-GO02-20220914-SD012.pdf


Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 17, 2023, 10:26:51 PM
One publication that was not only labeled dis/misinformation during 2020 Covid period by Fauci, the media & CDC, but literally attacked the credibilities of the authors of The Great Barrington Declaration (https://gbdeclaration.org/).

Any attempt or outright banning or censorship of dissenting opinion or narrative is indeed ‘limiting’ our liberties.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: BC on August 18, 2023, 03:55:49 AM
Our rights or freedoms are not absolute.

Give it a try and explain your ‘thinking’. Let’s watch BC wiggle.

 :popcorn:

No wiggling is needed.  Rust v. Sullivan 1991

The very simple version:

Congress provided Title X funding for Family Planning programs.
Republicans insisted on a provision in the legislation that banned doctors and others receiving funds from discussing or referring to abortion as part of such 'family planning.'

Some objected, stating that the free speech rights of the doctors and others were being infringed upon.

The US Supreme Court held that this was not an infringement of the First Amendment rights of the doctors and others that received government funding.

Some other information:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action

A number of other restrictions exist as well.  From when and where one can exercise free speech to government-mandated labels on food products etc








Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Bodine on August 18, 2023, 07:18:29 AM
A good commentary about what is happening in our current media platform when government outreach attempts to rule over it. Looking back into the pandemic period I hope people really begin to learn how to separate fact from fiction. Especially in our medical/scientific sector.


The campaign for censorship, especially during the pandemic, was so ridiculous that people today still believes Covid-19 is a virus.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 18, 2023, 07:47:16 AM
A good commentary about what is happening in our current media platform when government outreach attempts to rule over it. Looking back into the pandemic period I hope people really begin to learn how to separate fact from fiction. Especially in our medical/scientific sector.


The campaign for censorship, especially during the pandemic, was so ridiculous that people today still believes Covid-19 is a virus.

Getting run over by a steamroller is also a virus...

https://twitter.com/HenryMakow/status/1243882809216958469/photo/1

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Danchik on August 19, 2023, 01:52:41 AM
Over 3 years remove from the start of Covid and where we are now with the information at hand, It's just amazing that there are still people who believe the horseshit we were fed.

Some are on this forum, still holding on to those beliefs.

I hate propaganda, mainly because it works on so many. I still see videos of people wearing masks that don't work (even while driving alone), still thinking ivermectin is for animals, and still believing whatever other nonsense we were given.

Many who still haven't apologised for their militant, ignorant attitudes towards those of US who never got vaccinated.

And that "mentality" often rears its ugly head in many other areas of life, most notably Ukraine.

I try to remain optimistic about the future, but it's not easy with all the sheeple that still are able to take in oxygen. smh.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 19, 2023, 04:18:17 AM
I regret taking the vaccine and whilst we were told that we had the freedom to choose, I ended up having to get the vaccine passport in order do fly around and do my job.

I'll never touch another one but sadly I listen to simpletons getting ready to queue up for the next round of clot shot "boosters".

I'm 43, fit, healthy and I know this because I take a first class medical annually. I have no pre existing health conditions but I was effectively forced to take the vaccine or lose my job. Just look at how Novak Djokovic was treated yet today, he's the winner.

Absolute barstools the lot of them.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Markje on August 19, 2023, 04:26:27 AM
I regret taking the vaccine and whilst we were told that we had the freedom to choose, I ended up having to get the vaccine passport in order do fly around and do my job.
I never regretted taking the vaccine and the first booster shot. However since I have had covid 3 times after that, I am sure i will never need another booster. Natural Immunity etc.

I am also not in perfect health so Im sure I would be dead without the vaccine. Thank you for taking it, and protecting people like me.

Mark.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: mhr7 on August 19, 2023, 12:03:57 PM
I regret taking the vaccine and whilst we were told that we had the freedom to choose, I ended up having to get the vaccine passport in order do fly around and do my job.
I never regretted taking the vaccine and the first booster shot. However since I have had covid 3 times after that, I am sure i will never need another booster. Natural Immunity etc.

I am also not in perfect health so Im sure I would be dead without the vaccine. Thank you for taking it, and protecting people like me.

Mark.

Yeah, I've taken the vaccine and boosters and never had covid. I'm in good health but think getting the vaccine is a smart move.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: rosco on August 19, 2023, 06:59:37 PM
I regret taking the vaccine and whilst we were told that we had the freedom to choose, I ended up having to get the vaccine passport in order do fly around and do my job.
I never regretted taking the vaccine and the first booster shot. However since I have had covid 3 times after that, I am sure i will never need another booster. Natural Immunity etc.

I am also not in perfect health so Im sure I would be dead without the vaccine. Thank you for taking it, and protecting people like me.

Mark.

I suppose that's where the freedom of choice comes in.

I got the covid before I had the vaccine and it was like a rubbish cold for a few days. The vaccine was actually worse than the covid for me, it gave me flu like symptoms and I felt terrible for 24-36 hours.

Personally, I think the vaccine was good for the vulnerable but making everyone take it was wrong. At the time, we were told that it stopped you catching covid and passing it onto loved ones. Take the vaccine and save your granny stuff. Pretty much blackmail.

We now know that isn't true and pushing young kids into taking it was unnecessary. We just dont know what we've taken because it was still in trial but forced upon us.

I'm glad it helped you out though. I was more worried about mum and dad through the whole thing but I was cool with it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 19, 2023, 10:11:18 PM
I regret taking the vaccine and whilst we were told that we had the freedom to choose, I ended up having to get the vaccine passport in order do fly around and do my job.

I'll never touch another one but sadly I listen to simpletons getting ready to queue up for the next round of clot shot "boosters".

I'm 43, fit, healthy and I know this because I take a first class medical annually. I have no pre existing health conditions but I was effectively forced to take the vaccine or lose my job. Just look at how Novak Djokovic was treated yet today, he's the winner.

Absolute barstools the lot of them.


Two thumbs up.

https://rumble.com/v1wac7i-world-premier-died-suddenly.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Contrarian on August 19, 2023, 10:16:35 PM
I regret taking the vaccine and whilst we were told that we had the freedom to choose, I ended up having to get the vaccine passport in order do fly around and do my job.
I never regretted taking the vaccine and the first booster shot. However since I have had covid 3 times after that, I am sure i will never need another booster. Natural Immunity etc.

I am also not in perfect health so Im sure I would be dead without the vaccine. Thank you for taking it, and protecting people like me.

Mark.

I suppose that's where the freedom of choice comes in.

I got the covid before I had the vaccine and it was like a rubbish cold for a few days. The vaccine was actually worse than the covid for me, it gave me flu like symptoms and I felt terrible for 24-36 hours.

Personally, I think the vaccine was good for the vulnerable but making everyone take it was wrong. At the time, we were told that it stopped you catching covid and passing it onto loved ones. Take the vaccine and save your granny stuff. Pretty much blackmail.

We now know that isn't true and pushing young kids into taking it was unnecessary. We just dont know what we've taken because it was still in trial but forced upon us.

I'm glad it helped you out though. I was more worried about mum and dad through the whole thing but I was cool with it.


This is a shorter preview. The whole thing was planned out and it was deliberate. Don't be fooled into thinking that anybody at the top took those vaccines.

Bill Gates was the crack dealer of mediocre software with deliberate bugs which always needed new upgrades and he moved onto being a non-qualified spokesman for "the greatest orchestrated die off in the history of the World".

https://rumble.com/v1uo1ay-died-suddenly-trailer.html