Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Information & Chat => Adventure Stories & Travel Reports => Topic started by: Habeed on September 03, 2019, 06:07:55 PM
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About me: I've been a member of this site for a long time, but due to circumstances in my life, at the ripe old age of 36 I finally was able to actually get on a plane. I'm a white male who is 2 inches below average height by U.S. standards (as most members here will know, this drastically lowers my chances on the US side), I look younger than macaulay culkin who's my age, and my BMI is 24.9*. I work as an embedded software engineer in the USA and earn the typical low six figures most of us make.
One of the challenges in my search is I don't know what this equates to in "market value"**. Here in Kiev I see countless versions of the long legged brunette, basically Lily James. This is what my subconscious mind scores the highest in terms of value - a woman with light brown hair like mine, and the thinner the better. (ribs showing but not starving basically) I don't know if I could win over one in her mid 20s, or early 30s, or I have to settle for an overweight woman with children who's 35.
In Round 1, I visited Kiev in December 2019. I met with 2 women I met through a single website, UKD:
LS Date 1. With LS, I met her at Sam's Steak House. She's a former professional handball player. She has a pretty face and a great smile. Our first date, we talk and talk about things in the USA. I try to explain to her how things like health insurance works, how the legal system works, and so on. Insightful stuff and I have no game, talking to me has been described as talking to a walking copy of wikipedia. However, she does smile at what I say and seems to enjoy the conversation. Here's where I first encounter outright racism in the USA, she asks if it's true we have n******* there. I explain how you can't ever say the word as a Caucasian person there, how I have black friends and coworkers but unfortunately there are very high crime areas in the USA you must avoid, and those areas are generally high percentages of black people. At the end of the date we walk and I notice she is significantly taller than me. Also, she adamantly refuses to wait for the taxi in my apartment, and asks for ~1000 UAH for round trip taxi fare. We agree to a date the next day at the Kiev War museum.
I have photos from this date and all subsequent dates, how should I handle faces?
LS Date 2 - We went to the war museum in Kiev with the statue***. It's quite cold for me outside, but we check out the Hind gunship they have**** We go inside one of the cargo planes, check out the old tanks they have parked, etc. I notice how LS is concerned about my well being and when she notices I'm cold, we rush inside to the indoor portion of this museum. As it turns out, this museum graphically illustrates the horrors of war. They have all sorts of artifacts of death, often placed in spots where museum visitors are tempted to touch them, but the museum is using state of the art security! Babushka is watching! They have older women positioned in each room, where you can clearly see they are there and watching you. I saw this kind of security many places. LS seems fascinated by the artifacts, like going out to a place like this is new for her. We then go to a pasta restaurant, after an hour long cab ride through Kiev traffic, where hand rolled fettucine and salmon for 2 people is under $40 U.S. We say our goodbyes. No physical affection so far, and as usual she gets ~1000 UAH for taxi fare...
SL Date 1 After saying goodbye to LS, I go to meet with SL at a much nicer restaurant. SL is physically about the best anyone can do. She listed her age at 27, she has a pretty face, a slim body, and photos from when she competed in bikini fitness competitions. A hard 9. (a 10 would be SL at age 20) We talk and talk, and she engages in the same casual racism as LS. I was so distracted by her beauty I am having trouble remember what else we talked about. The restaurant bill is around $80 even though I didn't eat anything, and she departs but only asks for 500 UAH in taxi fare.
LS Date 3 We go to Grill de Brazil. It's about $60 for unlimited food for 2 people plus some beers. We talk and talk, and after the data LS wants to know if we can go watch a movie together. At this point I might mention another fact about LS - she's somewhat overweight. By U.S. standards she's not bad, but compared to SL or the average girl I see on the street, LS is fat. I'm not feeling it, and I send her off, since I am almost late to my date with SL...
SL Date 2 - we eat in a really nice restaurant this time. It's maximally romantic, with wine and a great view and everything else. The tab is around $140 US, and again I didn't eat anything. She kisses me afterwards, rather expertly with tongue and everything. So..
SL Date 3 This is it. (I think). So I buy some nice new expensive clothes from the shop in Gulliver's. ($240). I get my hair cut ($15). I go to see SL looking about as good as possible, and she has me meet in a phone store in Gulliver's. She's "just shopping". I...somehow end up buying her a $240 smartphone.
SL/LS Date 4. This is when my lies catch up to me and I run into LS at the same time I have not gotten rid of SL. So they meet, it's a little awkward, but we go to eat at the Sushi place in Gulliver's. Also LS has brought a friend of hers, so now it's 3 girls and just me. I have to admit this feels pretty good though it's apparently just a typical Tuesday in Kiev. LS and her friend leave and it's just me and SL. We make out in the mall lobby but I just can't close the deal.
SL Date 5 - this time at a hyper expensive place, one right next to some government buildings. There went another $120 or so. Again can't close, but she does a little bit of heavy petting. At this point I'm getting frustrated, this woman seems to be a black hole for my money and also I'm not getting any benefits in return...
LS Date 5 - We go out to the pizza restaurant in Gulliver's. As usual, it's far more reasonably priced. Like $30 for 2 people with desert. In the mall.
SL Date 6 - Cafe. She now needs to buy some medicine at the pharmacy. Can I say no to a beautiful woman who isn't having sex with me? I must cringe and admit I paid the bill. Then she loaded her cart up with over $200 of groceries at the store. Paid that also...Then she left me alone, again
LS Date 7 - we go to left bank for lunch. It's about $40 total with cab fare. We are just dating as friends at this point.
SL Date 7 - The penultimate. So SL has been telling this story about how she's getting a new apartment and she needs all new appliances, etc. So on this date she takes me to a construction site. Accompanied by some guy, we climb ~15 flights of stairs to see this apartment she claims is going to be hers. She then has me follow her, not telling me where we are going, until we are at an appliance store. I'm a fool and I got taken...to this point. I tell her off, deny her cab fare, and leave.
*so I still have belly fat but a relatively small amount
**A match exactly at market value would be one where the woman just barely goes through with getting engaged to me, being tempted to switch to other potential partners but never quite hitting the threshold, and then stays married at least 2 years without accusing me of domestic violence to get her Green card early.
***The Ukrainian State Museum of the Great Patriotic War
**** I find out that bulbous dome will probably not stop 7.62 fire. Tom Clancy was exaggerating! It looks like you can readily shoot down a Hind with an AK-47 or RPK, which goes to explain all the problems the Soviets would later have in Afghanistan when their own weapons were used against them...
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SL saw you coming! That grocery bill is more than a month's worth for a single person. This is a very common "scam" in Ukraine. She will return some of those groceries at a discounted price, if they are non perishable. The phone - stupid on your part, but be happy she didn't ask for the latest IPhone or Samsung.
It isn't typical in Ukraine for dates to bring along girlfriends. That means the girl has zero interest in you.
You gave too much for taxis, unless the women are travelling over 50 km both ways.
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Round 2
As I write this message, on August 3, 2019, I'm in Kiev in my rented apartment, alone. How has round 2 gone?
This time, I join 3 sites. UKD, UKDing, and B&L. I also have successfully lost more than 20 lbs. (I was overweight but not obese in round 1, now I am technically of normal BMI but I need to lose more to have visible abs)
I messaged a lot more girls. But I'm pickier this time, and again for convenience reasons focus on girls only from Kiev. I am noticing that the younger, hotter girls on these sites, if they are on them, tend to be from the contested provinces...
I will see LS again. We had been talking and she implied, both directly and indirectly, that she would be more sexually receptive, and also I notice she's lost some weight as well.
LS Date 1 - This was back at Grill Brazil. I gave her a small token, a bottle of perfume from a duty free shop. She seemed incredibly happy to see me again and seemed very happy at the restaurant. However, she makes sure to "call a taxi" before we even get back to my place, basically meaning nothing physical will happen. I am irritated with this - she makes excuses and keeps talking about how she must be at home right away. I'm annoyed with her dissembling.
I am somewhat doubtful about having a physical relationship with this woman as well - she's lost weight but still isn't particularly sexy to me. I can't pick her up, her belly gets in the way, I don't like how her breasts sag and there are still some rolls of fat when you hug her. But I am annoyed that she can't just say "I'm leaving because I don't want to do anything sexual with you".
IR Date 1 - so I go out with IR. So, apparently, Ukraine has more females than men. This is unusual though I have read that some beautiful women are theorized to have genes that make children more likely to be girls than boys, which makes evolutionary sense. Well, who did the boys of IR decide wasn't worthy of their attention? Who did they kick to the curb and at 29 she's already setting up as an "old maid", with her knitting, her cats, and still living with mother?
That's IR. She's a bit shorter than me, somewhat impoverished as she works for the UK government, and doesn't speak much english. She looks good in a dress but is overweight, but again by U.S. standards not by much. She just doesn't have good legs, has a somewhat plain face, and is a vegan, loves her cats, and is religious. Oh and knits these hideous handmade dolls to make extra money. I kiss her during out first date and things feel like they could really go somewhere physically...but I don't want to take advantage of her. After the date, knowing about her vegan preference, religious preference, and the fact that she's basically in the bottom 3-5% or something out of all the Kiev girls I see on the street, I'm not feeling it.
I feel like I could frankly have IR with ease, and just go fill out the fiance paperwork. She seems instantly smitten with me, I doubt she has better prospects. Cost of this date? I voluntarily gave her 350 UAH to get her data plan restored and for metro fare. She didn't want to accept my money.
But I think with my big head and realize that (1) if someone is instantly willing to do a deal, you're offering way more than market value. (2) Someone who's a vegan is very mentally stubborn. It's one thing to not eat large, possibly intelligent animals like red meat. Or even chicken. But fish? Eggs? There's not much going on there brain wise. To be vegan is to voluntarily choose to make suboptimal decisions for yourself. What other suboptimal decisions might she stubbornly decide to stick to later in a marriage? (similar argument against religion)
Nt Date 1 : This one is SL^2. Basically the same girl, similar face, similar expensive tastes, similar moneygrabbing for no play attitude. But I talk with her, and find out she already has her visa. She's literally a divorced housewife who lives in a condo in Florida. Right away I realize there's no deal to be had here - if I did get her to choose me somehow (after presumably throwing a lot of money in her general direction) - by definition this is a match below market rate. (because theoretically I could find a more attractive girl who I can also offer a visa to and that match would also work) Also, as a ballerina in her 20s, she bragged about meeting various rich and famous people - basically to her, my mere 6 figure income is sorta a commoner sort of income. But she tells me of her sister, who supposedly has an MD, and I ask to meet her sister. Oh, and about 3 scraps of food and some drinks with no alcohol at the restaurant she chooses is $140. But hey, I'm learning, I got off cheaper...
LS Date 2 So I cancel on LS for lunch and let her know it's because I'm seeing another girl and that a contributing factor in this decision was her choice to leave me instead of making out or doing anything physical at all on our first date. So this "playa" move of mine results in me actually getting to touch her at all, and to cuddle with her a bit. Basically about half as much as I did with IR within an hour of meeting her. We eat sushi and drink champagne in my apartment, and it costs just $40 US, and I playfully give her a rump slap as she leaves.
LS Date 3 This one, we go to the zoo outside Kiev and see all the animals. Have an adventure riding some propane powered jalopy of a taxi there. It's only 350 UAH for the trip....LS claims her village is about this far out, and remember she always asks for 1000-1200 UAH for taxi.... Well, tbh, I always knew she was skimming a little for herself but it's like 10-20 USD so w/e. We then go to blockbuster mall and drive go-carts. I absolutely thrash everyone on the course, lapping LS several times. (yeah so ok I thrash some other random teenagers who have probably never driven a car before but anyways...) Try out the VR and flight sim in the arcade, then go back to the apartment...where she announces she's on her period and also a taxi is arriving soon. I tell her that she's making a choice here and she leaves.
Afterwards on WhatsApp I ask her if she's ever been in a relationship. She then claims she's had sex only 5 times in her life, and has only ever had a single boyfriend, over the 10 years since she was 18. Or 14 years or so since a typical woman starts to explore her sexuality. So, ok, this is a dealbreaker. Because either (a) she lied and in fact is a normal woman, she just doesn't find me attractive, which is fine, I only marginally find her attractive myself. Or (b) she's telling the truth, and has minimal libido. Which is a massive dealbreaker as well. If I wanted an overweight, emotionally supportive woman who won't have sex with me, I have U.S. friends who meet that description. Several of them have been hot, despite my analytical writing style here I'm great at being that friend that women talk to all the time but never want to have sex with...
So I'm just about out of girls.
Today, I dated Nt's sister. We went out but...the restaurant bill was $240. Not only steep but enough to make me suspect she and her "sister" were just out for a free meal + a commission from the restaurant. The two girls have no resemblance. Still, Nt's sister did seem nice, speaks 4 languages, is a ballet instructor, supposedly also has a medical degree. I was unable to get her to confirm any specific piece of knowledge to let me confirm that she has the degree she claims, and in any case at age 33 or so she probably would not be able to get a medical residency in the USA and practice. I suspect the best she could do is become a Physician's Assistant by going back to school in the USA for the 2 years it takes. Which does pay well, a dual income household with 2 professional jobs is obviously what you want to have in the USA. Plus her hair is so expensive to maintain that some of that 97k average PA salary would go just to that...
Also, at her age she basically needs to have kids in the near future, so there's that. Honestly she's the best girl so far if she's even real, and not just Nt's friend and ripping me off. Not sure on that part.
But her "sister" is going to Odessa or something the day after tomorrow, or so she says, so we could see each other maybe once today before she's gone and I wouldn't be able to see her again for months.
So Now What: I need more time in Ukraine to make this work. 10 days at a time here and there just isn't nearly enough. I need a job that lets me "work from home" so I can fly over here and really play the field for a few weeks at a time while still reporting to work. I need to learn at least some basic Russian or Ukrainian. And I feel a lot of time pressure - I think I look pretty good for my age, and I'm under 40, but neither will be true for much longer.
Sometimes I wonder if marriage is even worth the hassle. Maybe what I actually want is a mistress. Why "own" a depreciating, used asset when you can lease a "new" asset. (as in, have a mistress who's in her early 20s and is one of the hotter examples of the girls I see all over Kiev). From a rational perspective, in terms of the amount of good sex per dollar spent, (aka bang/buck) it is most likely optimal to have a mistress from a country such as this one with a low price-level in dollars.
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SL saw you coming! That grocery bill is more than a month's worth for a single person. This is a very common "scam" in Ukraine. She will return some of those groceries at a discounted price, if they are non perishable. The phone - stupid on your part, but be happy she didn't ask for the latest IPhone or Samsung.
It isn't typical in Ukraine for dates to bring along girlfriends. That means the girl has zero interest in you.
You gave too much for taxis, unless the women are travelling over 50 km both ways.
Thanks for the reply. Ok, yes, I read the Elena's Model's article on "Pro-Daters". I know now that SL probably returned everything she could I bought her. She didn't need the phone...she already had an iphone like basically every girl in Kiev no matter their income level...she was going to return it. So in reality I just paid her $500 or so in total to "date" me...money if I had spent on a prostitute instead I would have gotten a much better ROI...
Thank you for letting me know that LS has zero interest. Damn if you read the next part you will see where I eventually get to that understanding, several dates and several hundred dollars later...
How can I ask a woman to verify her taxi bill? They always call someone, they never use the uber app or anything... (and no, the driver who comes to pick her up is usually fat and ugly, and probably not her boyfriend...so I at least I am not getting taken for that specific scam)
Should I just give up on Ukraine entirely, or Kiev entirely? I feel like the scamming percentage is near 100%...
How do I solve the problem that basically only the "rejects" of the dating market go to sites like UKD, etc. Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev. It makes you think that all the other girls there can't all have better matches than me. And they aren't matching with USA millionaires, only 750 girls total leave through the K-1 program a year. Most Ukraine girls are going to either stay single, marry a european, or marry a ukrainian.
My next thought is maybe I need professional help. I think I'm an ok looking guy. I check out the guys on UKD who are competing with me, and by my biased opinion, I'm not bad.(I am younger looking and skinnier than basically all of the competition, but not taller. Then again, a 6' man in the USA...will have good prospects on the USA side usually) Maybe if I could just find some dates with legitimate girls who are actually interested, but not total spinsters who no one wants, eventually I could find someone who's a good match.
CQMI Matchmaking CA sounds like they might be actually legitimate, if they really are based in a Western country. (since they would potentially go to jail if they defraud their customers). One major problem with such agencies is that, ok, CQMI wants $1000 to find you 3 girls, $3000 to find you 8. Sounds expensive...but if they had saved me from meeting SL and LS, I would have saved the fee right there. All $3000 of it.
But CQMI could just do what the PPL fraudulent sites do, and pay the girls to date me*. Plenty of money in the quoted prices for that.
*just once and platonically
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Oh, and one remarkable thing I have noticed that I am going to highlight. These Kiev girls have irrational, unreasonable jealously. Remember LS, the girl who I've gone on 9 dates with without so much of a cheek peck? When I introduced her to SL, or when I let her know I was cancelling lunch to talk to a different girl, she got quite jealous both times and said many things. Found that Nt also is this way, and so is SL, and so is IR, and so on.
Each girl seems to want to believe you are seeing only them, and that other women don't exist. Even from the first date, even if they have denied your advances and refuse to sleep with you, nevertheless, that penis of yours that they have never touched still belongs to them...
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nevertheless, that penis of yours that they have never touched still belongs to them...
That's why I've heard that most Ukrainian women carry an adequately sharp folding knife in their purse. :)
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that penis of yours that they have never touched still belongs to them...
It's not your penis that's valuable. It's your wallet.
You can't ask a woman to verify a taxi. She probably isn't taking a taxi, and is splitting the money you give her with whoever is giving her a lift.
Fleecing foreigners is an industry in Ukraine, and there is no shame in doing so. In fact, it's considered "clever". Even native Ukrainians no longer living in Ukraine, if identified as such, are subject to this.
Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev. Kiev
This is your main problem, and frankly, it can't be solved. The attitude will ensure you will never succeed in the FSU. It's probably best for you to date locally.
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Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev. Kiev
This is your main problem, and frankly, it can't be solved. The attitude will ensure you will never succeed in the FSU. It's probably best for you to date locally.
?! Even the worst looking girl is generally decent compared to what's available in the USA. She's overweight but not obese. And how is this an "attitude". I am simply observing and noticing I'm not doing well in relative terms. This is a valid observation. If you bought a used car and then figured out that yours has the most mechanical problems and you also paid more than everyone in your whole city, you'd feel pretty bad, right? Even if it turned out that once you ship the car to your home you find it was a bargain price back home.
Maybe I can't do better. Maybe I can. But the reason I'm not succeeding better so far is the girls who would be 'average' (for their age) on the street aren't even on the sites that cater to foreigners like me I have tried. (UKD, UKDing, B&L) Certainly not with profiles they check if they are even there.
Hence my thought of maybe I need to change my search strategy. And sure, learning the language and culture would help. It's not as if I am unwilling to do so, I just haven't yet.
Anyways, I find this post of yours pointlessly defeatist and negative. I mean, so I'm just another foreigner here. But I'm trying, 10 years before most men do. I don't believe I'm "entitled" to anyone, I'm just observing that if my matches are in the bottom 5%, maybe I can do better. This is a reasonable assumption.
If you had a job offer and it pays in the bottom 5% of your profession, and to take that offer would lock you out of taking other jobs for a several year period at least, are you saying you should just take it? (software) Job interviews these days have a language of their own, it's practically like learning a foreign language and culture in itself. As a foreigner to things like "geek4geeks", you are going to get a low offer if you get one at all.
Are you saying that I'm incapable of learning? [insult removed]
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Up your game and find a woman in the USA. Ukraine has nothing that you need and everything you want has no interest in you.
And, NO NO NO, being slightly less tall than some people is not a guarantee of failure. Your accepting it as such IS a guarantee of failure.
Spend some of your very adequate salary on a decent therapist and get some control over your emotional life. Right now you are a soft beta, radiating a solid cuck vibe to all who see you. An emotionally sensitive woman (the women you meet!) will wring you dry and chuck the twisted remains away like a piece of used toilet paper.
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Should I just give up on Ukraine entirely, or Kiev entirely? I feel like the scamming percentage is near 100%...
You are wasting your time in Ukraine.. especially a guy your age. you have no chance what so ever of finding a young Ukrainian girl for any type of relationship other than financial..
There are NO young Ukrainian women for marriage the few that say they are just want your money!
It will not be easy for you in any FSU country being 36 years old.. but if you want at least a little chance better to try Russia/Belarusia or Moldova..
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You are wasting your time in Ukraine.. especially a guy your age. you have no chance what so ever of finding a young Ukrainian girl for any type of relationship other than financial..
There are NO young Ukrainian women for marriage the few that say they are just want your money!
It will not be easy for you in any FSU country being 36 years old.. but if you want at least a little chance better to try Russia/Belarusia or Moldova..
Ok, you have actual data to back this up. I mean I have a subscription to two of your sites. (you own or are involved in both B&L and UKDing, right?)
And yes your sites seem to have almost all older women. Also my inbox is flooded from mails from them.
So if I am seeking a 28 year old, you're saying Ukraine is a waste of time, and I should be trying Russia, Belarusia, or Moldova. Ok.
What's your definition of young, so we're clear? How old do I need to be before I have an "easy" time in an FSU country?
What do you define as an 'easy' time? It seems like there are a certain grade of women (spinsters who 0 Ukrainian men are interested in...) that I can probably have easily. Maybe that's the best I can do, I'm just trying to find out what's available.
What if I get into shape and get a steroid pumped body with a six pack? (don't do drugs, kids...) Hypothetically would that make any noticeable difference?
Or, what if I were able to find a U.S. company that let's me work from home for a few weeks at a time, so I can get significantly more days here per year...or in one of the other hotspots you refer to. This seems like it would help more than anything.
You have far more data on this than I ever will, so I eager look forwards to seeing your reply.
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Thanks for the read.....
I went to Ukraine on my first trip at 27/28 (about 10 years ago) and met a young lady who I would consider a 9. We met several times again after and the relationship came with all sorts of issues but I had my fun. I was prepared for a holiday experience with the benefit of a sexy girls company. To be fair I never really liked Ukraine and I found the whole experience to be one where I was always sceptical about values. Other guys will have a different journey but I enjoyed the experience as a whole and learned a lot.
I then went to Minsk a few years later and ended up meeting my wife, we've been together ever since. What was different this time? Well we spent weeks talking about all sorts in the build up to my visit and when I got to BY, everything felt more genuine. Our relationship never had the same drama as Ukraine, and taxi's, restaurants and shopping never filled me with scepticism.
I'm not sure this game is for you or perhaps you need to look at somewhere other than Ukraine? I'm not being a dick here but try looking at home and working on it. I started travelling east for an adventure but also to look for pastures new. I'd had plenty GF's and one night stands but I felt I'd run out of material.
Wrong.....sometimes you just don't look in the right place. I think you'll just waste a heap of cash heading back there to date bang average girls whilst chugging over the hotties. You'd have been as well spending your doe on a cat walk hooker by the sounds of it.
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Up your game and find a woman in the USA. Ukraine has nothing that you need and everything you want has no interest in you.
And, NO NO NO, being slightly less tall than some people is not a guarantee of failure. Your accepting it as such IS a guarantee of failure.
Spend some of your very adequate salary on a decent therapist and get some control over your emotional life. Right now you are a soft beta, radiating a solid cuck vibe to all who see you. An emotionally sensitive woman (the women you meet!) will wring you dry and chuck the twisted remains away like a piece of used toilet paper.
This is not a very helpful post. Even if you are correct, and I'm not denying it, you could phrase your opinion in a more constructive way. You do realize that no licensed therapist can treat someone for being 'beta'. The reason I am like that is obviously a mixture of experiences and genetics. A more constructive thing to say would be something like "well, you need to learn to hit the ball and get runs before you try to play against the best. I suggest working on your "street game" in <x country> or whatever. Whatever the people who preach the concept of "betas" and "players" and "the game" recommend.
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Or, what if I were able to find a U.S. company that let's me work from home for a few weeks at a time, so I can get significantly more days here per year...or in one of the other hotspots you refer to.
You'll need that anyway, should you meet the right lady.
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You are wasting your time in Ukraine.. especially a guy your age. you have no chance what so ever of finding a young Ukrainian girl for any type of relationship other than financial..
There are NO young Ukrainian women for marriage the few that say they are just want your money!
It will not be easy for you in any FSU country being 36 years old.. but if you want at least a little chance better to try Russia/Belarusia or Moldova..
Ok, you have actual data to back this up. I mean I have a subscription to two of your sites. (you own or are involved in both B&L and UKDing, right?)
And yes your sites seem to have almost all older women. Also my inbox is flooded from mails from them.
So if I am seeking a 28 year old, you're saying Ukraine is a waste of time, and I should be trying Russia, Belarusia, or Moldova. Ok.
What's your definition of young, so we're clear? How old do I need to be before I have an "easy" time in an FSU country?
What do you define as an 'easy' time? It seems like there are a certain grade of women (spinsters who 0 Ukrainian men are interested in...) that I can probably have easily. Maybe that's the best I can do, I'm just trying to find out what's available.
What if I get into shape and get a steroid pumped body with a six pack? (don't do drugs, kids...) Hypothetically would that make any noticeable difference?
Or, what if I were able to find a U.S. company that let's me work from home for a few weeks at a time, so I can get significantly more days here per year...or in one of the other hotspots you refer to. This seems like it would help more than anything.
You have far more data on this than I ever will, so I eager look forwards to seeing your reply.
I can assure you near every young women in Ukraine is a fake or a scammer..
https://www.facebook.com/CupidGuardcom-1946518872238288/
How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..
As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest.. any women younger than that on the sites are probably suspended or about to.. so no fairy stories.. any young women writing to you will probably be fake , that is how it is unfortunately ..
If your 36 years old my best advice is to pursue a women 35/36 Co's anyone younger and your on mission impossible..
But for absolute sure DO NOT waste your time in Ukraine.. I would only suggest going to Ukraine if you are seeking an older women 40/60 in which case its as easy as 1-2-3
https://bridesandlovers.com/ukrainian-older-mature-brides Any guy who is serious about finding a mature Ukrainian women or a women within a realistic age group is on to a winner..
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How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..
As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..
Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30. Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them. One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks. You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams... The whole FSU is closed? All of it? Since what year?
I mean this place is a hot female ocean. You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere. (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress. Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)
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How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..
As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..
Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30. Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them. One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks. You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams... The whole FSU is closed? All of it? Since what year?
I mean this place is a hot female ocean. You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere. (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress. Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)
You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams.
I don't sell dreams and have never made out to!! But I do tell the truth and will give honest frank advice which works better .. so I win win all the time.. members will always return.. works very well for guys over 40/45 .. unfortunately for younger guys there is not much I can do other than tell you to work hard and do not give up.. first way to succeed is understand it is going to be a long trip.. 2/3 years..and lots of trips..
You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere
Nearly yes! I will presume your looking for a girl 28/35 years old.. it is not going to be easy.. nearly mission impossible.. Take my advice and forget about Ukraine
try Russia.. It will not be easy in Russia either BUT the women there will not all be out to rob you like in Ukraine!
And lastly!! Please do not take this the wrong way Im just telling you how it is.. Your name is Habeed so I would presume your kind of Middle Eastern guy , if you know what I mean.. that is going to make it a little bit harder for you most FSU women (Not all) seek white guys.. it is how it is..but do not let that put you off! There are plenty of guys as yourself here in St Petersburg dating or married to Russian women..
Of course some women like to date Colored guys, some like to date Indian guys and so on... but if your not white 100% it makes it a little harder.. just saying how it is..
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Habeed, I am not a therapist. I do not play one on TV.
However, as a man, a person, I can see that you have issues. I used commonplace terminology to describe what I saw. I very much doubt that anything I wrote about you is inaccurate. Find someone who uses words that you like to help you deal with the issues you know you have.
Only then will you be able to start to find somebody who is compatible with you - and you will not need to be going to a country where you are set up to be a victim. You can find the good things you need right where you are.
Look at what you are going on about 'settling' for 'spinsters'. What the hell is in your mind? Have you no self-respect?
These might be lovely women, but your attitude, revealed in just a few words, is insightful. Do you want to be with a woman, for life, that you fundamentally disrespect? That's horrible for her, and for you.
Here's the thing, you need to come to understand what you have to offer. Learn what women want and need and offer those things. Understand what the woman you want needs and give it to her. She will love you and all you have to do is keep on giving it. Right now you seem to be wanting to get something for nothing. You are happy to drop your cash because that's easy for you. It is also easy for the recipients to take advantage of you but that's not how a relationship is built.
I can tell you all that, and it is all very true, but until you understand it and live it you will not find what you really want.
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Habeed, I am not a therapist. I do not play one on TV.
However, as a man, a person, I can see that you have issues. I used commonplace terminology to describe what I saw. I very much doubt that anything I wrote about you is inaccurate. Find someone who uses words that you like to help you deal with the issues you know you have.
Only then will you be able to start to find somebody who is compatible with you - and you will not need to be going to a country where you are set up to be a victim. You can find the good things you need right where you are.
Here are the things I find wrong with your statement. You speak of a problem there is no known way to fix, and you are ignoring the reality of markets and barriers. Even if I count the women who haven't ripped me off (IR hasn't, LS is doing a really slow job of it) I am getting more attention from slimmer women than I would in a year in the USA. Basically right now I am getting the same bottom of the barrel women I would in the USA - except they are just mildly overweight not so large they may fall dead at any moment.
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How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..
As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..
Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30. Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them. One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks. You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams... The whole FSU is closed? All of it? Since what year?
I mean this place is a hot female ocean. You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere. (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress. Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)
You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams.
I don't sell dreams and have never made out to!! But I do tell the truth and will give honest frank advice which works better .. so I win win all the time.. members will always return.. works very well for guys over 40/45 .. unfortunately for younger guys there is not much I can do other than tell you to work hard and do not give up.. first way to succeed is understand it is going to be a long trip.. 2/3 years..and lots of trips..
You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere
Nearly yes! I will presume your looking for a girl 28/35 years old.. it is not going to be easy.. nearly mission impossible.. Take my advice and forget about Ukraine
try Russia.. It will not be easy in Russia either BUT the women there will not all be out to rob you like in Ukraine!
And lastly!! Please do not take this the wrong way Im just telling you how it is.. Your name is Habeed so I would presume your kind of Middle Eastern guy , if you know what I mean.. that is going to make it a little bit harder for you most FSU women (Not all) seek white guys.. it is how it is..but do not let that put you off! There are plenty of guys as yourself here in St Petersburg dating or married to Russian women..
Of course some women like to date Colored guys, some like to date Indian guys and so on... but if your not white 100% it makes it a little harder.. just saying how it is..
Thanks for letting me know the Russian women are less ripoff prone. Also, knowing how it is is valuable information. Even if you are completely right and none of the attractive girls with remaining childbearing potential will go home with me, there is still a way to get what I want. (Step 1, get a job with more remote flexibility. Step 2 find a mistress for I suspect a third or less the cost. There is no step 3)
Also, I am not Indian. True blood American and I have the same brunettes hair and green eyes as the girls I am after. In fact I have lost almost none of it so far.
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How old are you? 36? As I said it will not be easy as young women are no longer leaving FSU countries anymore.. BUT it is still possible, just takes lots of work..
As for my web sites , yes your mostly going to find women over 36/7/8 on the sites as the youngest..
Ahem, I do have 2 prospects, one 29, one 30. Just both prime "spinsters" -> that is, there's a reason none of the locals wanted them. One was significantly more overweight and still doesn't look that good, another has another significant set of drawbacks. You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams... The whole FSU is closed? All of it? Since what year?
I mean this place is a hot female ocean. You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere. (besides the obvious way - just pay one to be your mistress. Might actually be cheaper than a wife is long term...)
You're being rather negative for a guy who makes money from selling dreams.
I don't sell dreams and have never made out to!! But I do tell the truth and will give honest frank advice which works better .. so I win win all the time.. members will always return.. works very well for guys over 40/45 .. unfortunately for younger guys there is not much I can do other than tell you to work hard and do not give up.. first way to succeed is understand it is going to be a long trip.. 2/3 years..and lots of trips..
You're saying that there's no way to get a single one of these girls, at all, anywhere
Nearly yes! I will presume your looking for a girl 28/35 years old.. it is not going to be easy.. nearly mission impossible.. Take my advice and forget about Ukraine
try Russia.. It will not be easy in Russia either BUT the women there will not all be out to rob you like in Ukraine!
And lastly!! Please do not take this the wrong way Im just telling you how it is.. Your name is Habeed so I would presume your kind of Middle Eastern guy , if you know what I mean.. that is going to make it a little bit harder for you most FSU women (Not all) seek white guys.. it is how it is..but do not let that put you off! There are plenty of guys as yourself here in St Petersburg dating or married to Russian women..
Of course some women like to date Colored guys, some like to date Indian guys and so on... but if your not white 100% it makes it a little harder.. just saying how it is..
Thanks for letting me know the Russian women are less ripoff prone. Also, knowing how it is is valuable information. Even if you are completely right and none of the attractive girls with remaining childbearing potential will go home with me, there is still a way to get what I want. (Step 1, get a job with more remote flexibility. Step 2 find a mistress for I suspect a third or less the cost. There is no step 3)
Also, I am not Indian. True blood American and I have the same brunettes hair and green eyes as the girls I am after. In fact I have lost almost none of it so far.
(Step 1, get a job with more remote flexibility.
That is the best option for a younger guy and in fact there are already hundreds doing it in our city.. You can find a younger women for sure then! There are plenty of younger guys at the International Universities here.. most have your Russian girl friends .. if your living here it is another story! it's as easy as 1-2-3 ..
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Steveboy you are making it sound like it's mission impossible! It's actually quite easy if you know what you are doing.
I was in Russia this year. Met alot of new girls 20's and 30's. If you speak even basic Russian and are half intelligent you will do ok.
The methods used of yesteryear don't work. No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife. You need to spend 1-2 months there living like a local and getting a feel for the place.
Honestly most of the "advice" here is useless. Next time I am in Moscow, if you come over I'll show you around. Get your Russian tourist visa, be prepared to spend 2-3 weeks here and start learning Russian.
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Habeed, go get some help. Really.
Of course, there are solutions to your problems. You are not unique. You're just a lonely, insecure bloke who wants stuff he can't (right now) have. You are one among millions.
The help you get, if you use what you learn, will shortcircuit years of failure and wasted energy. You will stop talking of women in the way that you do right now and make a move ahead.
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And, yes, Steveboy is also right!
If you want to meet women as your equals, women who are genuinely attractive, then take the time to do so. Build a network, your girlfriends will come from girls who are your friends.
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Habeed, go get some help. Really.
Of course, there are solutions to your problems. You are not unique. You're just a lonely, insecure bloke who wants stuff he can't (right now) have. You are one among millions.
The help you get, if you use what you learn, will shortcircuit years of failure and wasted energy. You will stop talking of women in the way that you do right now and make a move ahead.
Dude, just stop. There is no licensed or accredited "help". Nor is feeling insecure nothing but a normal human thing. If you are going to just say useless things why not just say I need to be younger and taller.
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You do not need to be younger or taller. That you take that away from what I wrote is just a reflection of how you think about yourself and a reflection of your own issues!
Look, I am 58 years old. I am fat - obese. I am not rich. I do not have a problem attracting women who I find to be good company, sexy, attractive, who enjoy me. Oh, mostly they are significantly younger - not because I go looking but because that's what happens.
All the stuff I wrote above about how to solve your problems (albeit written in very broad brush terms) is what I did. What ANYONE who enjoys success with women does.
When you meet a woman who interests you, figure out what she needs and give it to her. Listen to her A LOT, pay attention to her A LOT, help her to know that while you want to bang her brains out, that there's a whole lot more to the way you think of her than that. Most women get that - they enjoy good sex - good sex!
Learn a skill when it comes to sex, be good at it, make sure that she always gets pleasure from that skill. Expand your repertoire, learn her body. Most men never do that.
Don't go chasing after users, or settling for women you have no respect for. You will be unhappy, so will she! An unhappy relationship is worse than no relationship.
I figured it out for myself, but perhaps I started from a better place than you. I was older, fatter, and less well-off than you. I could not be lazy. I could not make excuses. So, I did neither.
So, don't give me the bollocks that you are giving me here. Stop with the whining and start with building the life you say you want. Or perhaps you already have the life you really want?
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andrew your advice isn't specific to his needs in Ukraine. it's a general self-help chant aimed at no one. anyone can get that stuff on youtube or a seminar.
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Steveboy you are making it sound like it's mission impossible! It's actually quite easy if you know what you are doing.
I was in Russia this year. Met alot of new girls 20's and 30's. If you speak even basic Russian and are half intelligent you will do ok.
The methods used of yesteryear don't work. No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife. You need to spend 1-2 months there living like a local and getting a feel for the place.
Honestly most of the "advice" here is useless. Next time I am in Moscow, if you come over I'll show you around. Get your Russian tourist visa, be prepared to spend 2-3 weeks here and start learning Russian.
The majority of people looking in Ukraine just follow the same approach and that is why it's 100% not really a way to be succes.
That is where Steveboy is right!
As for being the man and taking control of any dating and who he dates that is also a great majority of non succesful men as few ever educate them selfs prior to be going or what the hell is a alpha male?
There is a lot of fine documentaries and other that will tell you what works. If you have money to burn go ahead.
As for who you can have is everyone you just have to find the one and stick to that one. Dating is different in the Ukraine and a little study on that would be essential for your understanding.
Finding the girls is the trick the ones with real desire and they want a alpha man to get married to. Try picking the one that really shines for you and go for that. Nothing else just one.
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El date 2. This is the girl that is either the sister or friend of Nt the user. Went far better this time - we saw a number of sites, the lunch bill was reasonable, etc. This is a girl that is not on any site, she gave up after being matched with 60 year old men. She is 33. From her voice, her obvious intelligence, her caring - she feels just like a high grade European mother. Also she's a ballet instructor. And she changed plans in order to meet me again tomorrow.
Anyways I don't know if this woman is the one, but she is far closer to someone I could live with and while at her age her market value in Kiev isn't high, she's not a total leftover. I can definitely see that other men would be interested in her.
My thoughts agree with the above. Look, if you are selling a boat or a house, if you are in a rush to make a deal, and you only advertise in limited auctions only cheapskates attend, you will get an abysmal price. A 400k house might go for 120k at auction. Or less.
Going on these specific sites, the ones I used, is like putting yourself up in the cheapskates auction. A marriage is a long term contract, it has a net present value, etc. The only wrinkle is that after a man and woman spend a lot of time in close proximity (probably faster if they :censored: ) their bodies release hormones that cause them to (for a while, usually about a year) value the partner more than an equivalent or slightly better mate elsewhere.
Anyways, yeah, to get market rate you need a lot of bidders and you need time, time actually in country to make the deal.
And I am not whining. I got taken but have learned my lesson. And I have gotten the equivalent of "cash offers" for myself in the form of spinsters wanting to jump my bones. And, worst case, a mistress from here would honestly not be bad. I have had one before, at least for me it was like having a hot girlfriend with none of the drawbacks except financial. (And that amount would be negotiated and predictable, not where she grabs your credit card and goes wild)
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Here's where I first encounter outright racism in the USA, she asks if it's true we have n******* there.
No you did not encounter outright racism. They use the N word the same way we say "black person". I'm a minority and I know the girls I dated aren't racist to me but they, their friends and family, have pointed out a black person and ask if we in America call them the N word too.
You are likely to dismiss quality women as bad women due to not understanding their culture. Never assume they know or have adopted the American culture.
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In Russian the word is not 'nigger', it does not even sound very similar. The word you hears sounds something like 'naygrey' or 'negrr'.
Many people have made the same mistake as you. US society is forever tainted with its recent history of slavery. The taint infects aspects of life, worse yet, you try to export the taint, as though a problem shared is a problem halved.
That's not to say there isn't racism in Ukraine or Russia, there most certainly is, but you'd not even know about it. The people are different, the effects are different and even the reasons are different.
By judging people through your cultural lens you are going to mistakes all the time. There's even a chance that your unforced errors on your previous expeditions were contributed to by cultural blindness. That's kinda normal when people with large cultural distances meet up.
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By the way, talking of alpha and beta as though they are learned behaviours is probably a mistake. While the terms are not part of any professional's vocabulary, we, the general public use them as a shorthand. The behaviours and traits are however part of a professional's knowledge. Alpha and Beta are shorthand for aspects of personality and there's one thing about personality: you can't change it!
Personality can be masked for a while, but not concealed.
You can learn how to act like an Alpha or Beta but you can never be what you are not.
Alpha and Beta are neither better nor worse than each other, they are different. In order to succeed, people who fall into each group need to learn what they are, understand what they are and then learn to best use their in-built traits. Self-awareness is key.
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Maybe this problem can't be solved, but it's despiriting to be walking with the worst looking girl of her age on the whole damn street here in Kiev. Kiev
This is your main problem, and frankly, it can't be solved. The attitude will ensure you will never succeed in the FSU. It's probably best for you to date locally.
?! Even the worst looking girl is generally decent compared to what's available in the USA. She's overweight but not obese. And how is this an "attitude". I am simply observing and noticing I'm not doing well in relative terms. This is a valid observation. If you bought a used car and then figured out that yours has the most mechanical problems and you also paid more than everyone in your whole city, you'd feel pretty bad, right? Even if it turned out that once you ship the car to your home you find it was a bargain price back home.
Maybe I can't do better. Maybe I can. But the reason I'm not succeeding better so far is the girls who would be 'average' (for their age) on the street aren't even on the sites that cater to foreigners like me I have tried. (UKD, UKDing, B&L) Certainly not with profiles they check if they are even there.
Hence my thought of maybe I need to change my search strategy. And sure, learning the language and culture would help. It's not as if I am unwilling to do so, I just haven't yet.
Anyways, I find this post of yours pointlessly defeatist and negative. I mean, so I'm just another foreigner here. But I'm trying, 10 years before most men do. I don't believe I'm "entitled" to anyone, I'm just observing that if my matches are in the bottom 5%, maybe I can do better. This is a reasonable assumption.
If you had a job offer and it pays in the bottom 5% of your profession, and to take that offer would lock you out of taking other jobs for a several year period at least, are you saying you should just take it? (software) Job interviews these days have a language of their own, it's practically like learning a foreign language and culture in itself. As a foreigner to things like "geek4geeks", you are going to get a low offer if you get one at all.
Are you saying that I'm incapable of learning? [insult removed]
So you went to a foreign country and dated women you don't find attractive. On top of that, you are conned out of hundreds of dollars by these unattractive women. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
There are 100 million American women. Some of them are extremely attractive. If you can't find a woman you find attractive, then the problem is in you, not the women.
Incidentally, there are scammers in Russia, too.
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You do not need to be younger or taller. That you take that away from what I wrote is just a reflection of how you think about yourself and a reflection of your own issues!
That reminded me of this song I heard on the radio today:
In Russian the word is not 'nigger', it does not even sound very similar. The word you hears sounds something like 'naygrey' or 'negrr'.
I'd like to clarify that. The Russian word is "nigr" or "niger". To the English ear it sounds exactly like Nigger. The root is niger (black) in Latin; from which the River Niger comes from. Or in fact, Nigeria. "Naygrey" is negro and is a variant. Neither are especially derogatory in Russian. That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them. Is that racist? Maybe where you come from. Would they care if you told them? Not at all.
[words]
OP, do some research. Read this topic (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,11208.msg160861.html#msg160861), then read the topics in this room (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/board,46.0.html), then read this book (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0955687403/) and then you will realise everything you have done wrong.
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Another potentially apropos song of approximately the same genre:
Biz Markie - 'Just A Friend'
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I'd like to clarify that. The Russian word is "nigr" or "niger". To the English ear it sounds exactly like Nigger. The root is niger (black) in Latin; from which the River Niger comes from. Or in fact, Nigeria.
When I was in Russia they say that word as casually as we say apple pie. They don't think it's offensive. and it does sound like "nigg*r". I have to tell them to never say it to a black person.
There are a few Africans who work as street hustlers in Moscow, esp on the main streets by Red square. They try to get customers to come into a restaurant or shop. One after chatting for 2 minutes flat out asked for the equivalent of $50!
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Read your story so far and have a few thoughts:
According to your post history and existing age you started on RUA 11 years ago at around age 25! Yes? You do not exactly read what you post as in the beginning you stated your present experience began in December 2019 about 3 months into the future?
Unlike some other posters I actually started in Russia and only later visited Ukraine having met both ladies and other posters from RUA and a previous forum Website in person both in the FSU and here in Canada. As to your age when I was that old I met a lady from South America and we were married for a number of years so even now years later it can be done depending on the couple involved.
As to Ukraine there are ladies there seeking a good man. Will they marry and move to your country? It really depends on them being ready to marry and settle down in a foreign country too.
In your posts you mention going to Sam's Steakhouse in Kiev, we have done so on occasion a few times however suggest for a first date meeting up for a coffee which is easy to do in Kiev or elsewhere in the FSU! Also as you are living in Kiev consider later inviting the lady to come and share preparing dinner together at your apartment. There should be no reason to not do so both of you can enjoy each other's company and a meal together. As you seem to be offering a Gold Plated Date and as a result found Gold Diggers ready and willing to Mine it for all its worth.
These are just some random thoughts from someone who did this and will soon celebrate a 16th Anniversary with my lovely wife who was born in Russia and later lived in Ukraine and now Canada.
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Now in the 'hood as we call it you better not be dropping the N bomb around. I hang out with da "brothas" sometimes if I'm playing sports or doing my music "thang"...
There's a black dude from NYC who's in Russia. Does alot of videos and seems to be killin' it with the women...
Brotha got mad game as we say. But he plays the American card real well. If he were from African he wouldn't be doing so hot.
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andrew your advice isn't specific to his needs in Ukraine. it's a general self-help chant aimed at no one. anyone can get that stuff on youtube or a seminar.
Best advice for him on this trip? Forget about finding a woman.
I have not been watching YouTube vids about dating. That stuff is hard-won from lots of mistakes and a few successes.
You are right it is not for now because getting it right takes a choice and practice.
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I read this entire thread in about 1/2 hour and have to say I rather appreciated Andrew's and Steveboy's candid perhaps even blunt advice - no emotion just calling it as they see it.
I will say that I am constantly amazed at the adverts here on RUA like this one:
https://www.loveme.com/mp/info11.htm
She only has brown eyes but is an exceptional woman by any standards:
ID: 188339
Diana
Kiev, Ukraine
Age: 30
Zodiac: Aquarius, Dragon
Weight: 128lb, 58kg Height: 5'6", 168cm
Measurements: 36-24-37
Measurements cm: 92-60-95
Eye Color: Brown Hair Color: Blonde
Marital Status: Single
Children: None
Religion: Christian
Smoker: No Drinker: No
Education: University
Company: Private
Job Title: Social Media Manager
Sports: Tennis, Bowling, Squash, Pilates
Hobbies: Dancing, Sommelier, Traveling, Painting, Gastronomy, Reading
English: fair
Languages: Ukrainian (native),Russian (excellent)
Self Description: Imagine how much you will receive just from taking a step towards a lady you really like. Do you know how many opportunities your brave move will open up? For example, real coffee with me! Or maybe even more? What do you think about? Firstly, I am here for a real life meeting. I am ready to ruin all of the boundaries in front of love, on the way to my chosen one. Of course, I want to become a special lady for someone, as well.
Comments: I dream to meet a romantic, honest and understanding man who could love me with all his heart and pure feelings. I'm not here looking for Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp. I just want to find a nice, serious and mature man who knows what he's looking for, who has serious intentions and who does not want to play games, and with whom I will feel comfortable and safe. I need a strong man who will love and respect me. Who is not afraid to be with such lady like me!
There seems to be some significant merit to working with one of this sites LONG TIME advertisers that has a decent US BBB rating and specializes in filtering ladies with serious intentions from the scammers and prodaters... in my experience, you can only be scammed and prodated if you play along with their short con...
I see these ads and have searched the advertisers' site and have found hundreds of attractive sincere ladies that they will actually arrange face to face dates or meetups at their socials if you are truly sincere in finding a wife it should not be too difficult.
Start here https://www.loveme.com/women/search.htm and to search by eye color just type brown, green, blue or gray one only at a time in the keywords and the correct matching eye color comes up nearly 100% of the time - I am a real sucker for Blue Eyed women with black hair or Green Eyed women with natural auburn hair... likely some of the original Viking genetic admixture a thousand years or so ago when Kiev was first settled.
https://www.loveme.com/tour/
If anyone objects to these links they are from the primary advertiser here so bitch to the management not me - I will just have you talk to the hand cuz the face don't want to hear it!
Ok Ok so I have been watching too much Maury Povitch Baby Daddy Lottery drama Midnight Ramblers TV (Midnight Ramber lyrics in Wishing Well was Terrence Trent Darby's biggest hit - years ago). Good tune to bang to - just saying.
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I read this entire thread in about 1/2 hour and have to say I rather appreciated Andrew's and Steveboy's candid perhaps even blunt advice - no emotion just calling it as they see it.
I will say that I am constantly amazed at the adverts here on RUA like this one:
https://www.loveme.com/mp/info11.htm
She only has brown eyes but is an exceptional woman by any standards:
ID: 188339
Diana
Kiev, Ukraine
Age: 30
Zodiac: Aquarius, Dragon
Weight: 128lb, 58kg Height: 5'6", 168cm
Measurements: 36-24-37
Measurements cm: 92-60-95
Eye Color: Brown Hair Color: Blonde
Marital Status: Single
Children: None
Religion: Christian
Smoker: No Drinker: No
Education: University
Company: Private
Job Title: Social Media Manager
Sports: Tennis, Bowling, Squash, Pilates
Hobbies: Dancing, Sommelier, Traveling, Painting, Gastronomy, Reading
English: fair
Languages: Ukrainian (native),Russian (excellent)
Self Description: Imagine how much you will receive just from taking a step towards a lady you really like. Do you know how many opportunities your brave move will open up? For example, real coffee with me! Or maybe even more? What do you think about? Firstly, I am here for a real life meeting. I am ready to ruin all of the boundaries in front of love, on the way to my chosen one. Of course, I want to become a special lady for someone, as well.
Comments: I dream to meet a romantic, honest and understanding man who could love me with all his heart and pure feelings. I'm not here looking for Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp. I just want to find a nice, serious and mature man who knows what he's looking for, who has serious intentions and who does not want to play games, and with whom I will feel comfortable and safe. I need a strong man who will love and respect me. Who is not afraid to be with such lady like me!
There seems to be some significant merit to working with one of this sites LONG TIME advertisers that has a decent US BBB rating and specializes in filtering ladies with serious intentions from the scammers and prodaters... in my experience, you can only be scammed and prodated if you play along with their short con...
I see these ads and have searched the advertisers' site and have found hundreds of attractive sincere ladies that they will actually arrange face to face dates or meetups at their socials if you are truly sincere in finding a wife it should not be too difficult.
Start here https://www.loveme.com/women/search.htm and to search by eye color just type brown, green, blue or gray one only at a time in the keywords and the correct matching eye color comes up nearly 100% of the time - I am a real sucker for Blue Eyed women with black hair or Green Eyed women with natural auburn hair... likely some of the original Viking genetic admixture a thousand years or so ago when Kiev was first settled.
https://www.loveme.com/tour/
If anyone objects to these links they are from the primary advertiser here so bitch to the management not me - I will just have you talk to the hand cuz the face don't want to hear it!
Ok Ok so I have been watching too much Maury Povitch Baby Daddy Lottery drama Midnight Ramblers TV (Midnight Ramber was the Black Brit Terrence Trent Darby's biggest hit - years ago).
Self Description: Imagine how much you will receive just from taking a step towards a lady you really like. Do you know how many opportunities your brave move will open up? For example, real coffee with me! Or maybe even more? What do you think about? Firstly, I am here for a real life meeting. I am ready to ruin all of the boundaries in front of love, on the way to my chosen one. Of course, I want to become a special lady for someone, as well.
Comments: I dream to meet a romantic, honest and understanding man who could love me with all his heart and pure feelings. I'm not here looking for Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp. I just want to find a nice, serious and mature man who knows what he's looking for, who has serious intentions and who does not want to play games, and with whom I will feel comfortable and safe. I need a strong man who will love and respect me. Who is not afraid to be with such lady like me!
As soon as you see this kind of shit you know its all bollocks women do not write this crap..
I had some half wit Mexican women from that site write to me only a week or two back.. wanted to speak to me about becoming an affiliate.. She was actually in town looking for me.. told her to sling her hook and not contact me again..
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man with all that money for tours maybe I should set up my own tour company in Russia!
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Each girl seems to want to believe you are seeing only them, and that other women don't exist.
In dating, nobody likes to date someone who is actively dating other people. if you do prefer that type of person, then you must be into "open marriages".
Ok Ok so I have been watching too much Maury Povitch Baby Daddy Lottery drama Midnight Ramblers TV
Some of those people on Maury's show are real situations. Sometimes pathetic, but true. (:)
I am ready to ruin all of the boundaries in front of love, on the way to my chosen one.
Only a non-English speaking person would come up with something like this. So who do you think you are, Helen of Troy? :chuckle:
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There seems to be some significant merit to working with one of this sites LONG TIME advertisers that has a decent US BBB rating and specializes in filtering ladies with serious intentions from the scammers and prodaters... in my experience, you can only be scammed and prodated if you play along with their short con...
I see these ads and have searched the advertisers' site and have found hundreds of attractive sincere ladies that they will actually arrange face to face dates or meetups at their socials if you are truly sincere in finding a wife it should not be too difficult.
Start here https://www.loveme.com/women/search.htm and to search by eye color just type brown, green, blue or gray one only at a time in the keywords and the correct matching eye color comes up nearly 100% of the time - I am a real sucker for Blue Eyed women with black hair or Green Eyed women with natural auburn hair... likely some of the original Viking genetic admixture a thousand years or so ago when Kiev was first settled.
https://www.loveme.com/tour/
If anyone objects to these links they are from the primary advertiser here so bitch to the management not me - I will just have you talk to the hand cuz the face don't want to hear it!
Cufflinks, you been on these forums a long time so I'm surprised to read that from you. REAL women don't write the kind of profiles you read at loveme.com aka AFA(A Foreign Affair). I remember the custodial of records of a bunch of porn sites being in the same Arizona office as AFA.
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In Russian the word is not 'nigger', it does not even sound very similar. The word you hears sounds something like 'naygrey' or 'negrr'.
Andrewfi,
As usual, the serially single guy is spouting bollox . .from 'dating advice' to Russian words..
To a western ear, it sounds just like Nigger and it is the first thing I warn a Russian speaker before coming to the west to avoid saying...
The N word simply refers to the colour and is in no way meant as derogatory.
My beloved is very dark skinned and I regularly hear her referred to as African / the N sounding word...but it is more surprise as she has blond hair....bleached by exposure to the sun..
If you are interested in FSU women, you have to know why.
If it is how they look..do not be scared to say so, but try to learn some Russian and learn some of their history / culture. That will impress.
'Guille's' post is far more helpful, in that immersing yourself in the local dating scene will rapidly improve your confidence and you will be interesting, because you are not local.
If you can earn money whilst living there..Go for it.
Autumn ( Fall) is approaching and the winters in Moscow, St.Petersburg or Minsk are cold.
You will miss out on the seeing pretty things in summer dresses.
Why not plan your life around being there in Summer?
Your job will not involve meeting locals, except shopping or dating..
'Guille' says he teaches in the day time, so his life is 'full'...
This is a heck of a commitment and you may doubt yourself when sat alone in an apartment without a date..
You need to find an interest..be it a sport or something to mix with local young people and you should find you wondered why you were so scared)
Don't be that wide-eyed guy tipping up alone having lined up dates with young things on a western orientated dating site.
You are simply a money machine.
Steveboy's ladies are older, but he seems to go to a lot of trouble to weed out those who simply want to lighten your wallet.
This is supposed to be fun, so if you do not feel in control...hard if you do not speak Russian..you will always be on your guard.
Try to find an English speaker..
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mooby don't try to give advice when you haven't been actively dating for years and you know nothing of the Moscow or Russian scene.
well another one bites the dust! with all the "helpful" advice being posted I bet the OP won't be back for another 10 years!
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I have said so many times I get tired off it..
YOUNG UKRAINIAN WOMEN ARE NOT MARRING OLDER MEN ANYMORE.. And I always give any members the best most frank advise they will ever receive.. most eventually come to terms with it and continue their searches.. I do not need to sell fairy stories as selling fairy stories just gives you some short term members who soon leave once they become scammed.. Serious men seeking women in a realistic age group will always win.. Unfortunately that doesn't help young guys who travel to Ukraine to meet a women..but if your an older guy looking for a real women with no hassle and no problems stick to that rule and your on to a winner without a doubt..
Today some guy just wrote in about a young girl.. When guys write such letters I will always send them a photo of them selves with the girl and ask if they really see them selves married to such a girl.. A little reality check and usually they come to their senses..
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69677011_2270322773066614_2765611527309361152_o.png?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQmFwdyFX3-rHQKr6AZ8TyuFsOnz351uugR6JB4RT9sy6a8mcWwV8bYs7WYb_ek8mxA&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=9ddbb2b78d71df95ad5dc53e70655318&oe=5DC9C399)
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69645865_2270323046399920_449262014477369344_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQnXstfGewhGZPN0jTqVTJKJ4Z7IXTaUr6SzPQFazC1MH6vJiNVlWhNQPqt02BQbobY&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=47e0c6e8637ad7b5733b0d756788bb24&oe=5DFC5FD9)
Do not worry about the images they will will disappear within 14 days for privacy.
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here ia another example guy 60 years old wanting to marry Ukrainian girl 23 years old.. :laugh:
Of course it will not be so easy with this girl as she has wait for it "A life threatening disorder that will kill her in a few months and urgently needs 2000Euros for an operation"
:laugh: She looks fit and well to me!!!
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69498097_2270342106398014_8759980207038791680_o.png?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnOGwIf3TiHK_eACAfNr_U9UFy1C-CveQ-kN_NsJ_7nk8G2qdkMLCQQH4i6NO_VQCc&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=b55cbdc23da35d5941e36a958a3896c2&oe=5E075E53)
Again a quick photo shoot to give an idea what you will look like on the wedding day brings home reality...
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69496689_2270342639731294_3563296248209342464_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlYDgxKrTGQ7LK3ebZ9VBefWDnegro8s8QkwxMp2H2xOpWKJYTSzOz3XU-FpEqqZMo&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=08ce8e8612d6de7d60459cdb3e43605f&oe=5DC8B4DD)
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Why do some folks blart on about stuff they don't know?
Why do some folks imagine stuff, because it suits their prejudices?
Only if one is severely unable to discern sounds can one confuse the Russian word for black man as 'nigger'. It just isn't the same.
My guess is that this a case of language false friends. One understands almost nothing of what one hears and so the brain catches onto words that sound familiar. I think that many people genuinely think that the word they recall being spoken DID sound like nigger. It was a mind trick played by the brain in trying to understand its unfamiliar environment.
To help some of you whose hearing/recall is impaired by mind tricks let me try to help you.
This link carries the pronunciation and various forms of the word 'negr' in Russian: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3%D1%80
Here's the Russian pronunciation of the word as an audio file: https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=ru&text=nigger You can hear both the Russian and English versions. Now tell me how they sound the same.
To be fair, the standard definition of negr or негр in English is black man. I chose a non-standard definition to enable an easier comparison of the sounds of негр and nigger.
In Russian nouns, unlike most English nouns, have cases, with an altered spelling of the basic word. Thus негр, the masculine form, becomes негра when used in the genitive. Here's the audio file for the genitive form: https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=ru&tl=en&text=%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0
Now, scoot back up-thread to see how I indicated the pronunciation of the word. You actually got the masculine and genitive form back there. The genitive is kinda like possessive case, so it refers to the colour of the man - as I understand it, so it would be common usage if talking about a specific man's appearance. Masculine case when referring to a black man - probably when speaking in general, or about a particular man but not, specifically, his colour.
For completeness, here's the feminine: негритянка, or negrityanka: https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=ru&tl=en&text=%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0
Many 'beginning' Russian speakers ignore all the various forms of words and stick to a single form, but of course, Russians and Russian speakers do not. Hence there's more confusion for some neophytes over the sounds of words.
This is something that comes up from time to time with the blind leading the blind down a confusing path. Once again light needs to be shone onto an old issue.
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Steve, do you get guys who are not really looking for long term relationships but more of an 'arrangement'? I'd say sponsorship, but I don't really mean that. For vacations, intermittent visits; time spent together in exchange for shopping, money, or other benefits?
If you see such things do you ban the guys or allow it if the women are happy?
I ask because one sees any number of couples around the world where the age/looks do not match but where couples are obviously 'together'. And, of course, there are plenty of women who seek out exactly that sort of relationship.
Coincidentally, I was looking at a site suggested by a friend. As we are now just starting a new university year, it was notable how many young girls in a particular university town were seeking 'arrangements' in order to make their university life more comfortable. It was clear from the profiles that they are each trying to find a way to solve their financial issues in ways that fit within their individual comfort zones. Some were happy to have a relationship of sorts, others wanted to have something long term but very discreet, still others were offering individual transactions.
Even on Tinder, in the UK, I was seeing this. Girls 23 or under, at university, who actively sought some 'sugar' from older, 'generous' guys. Some were clearly foreign girls, others were, as far as I could tell, British.
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Steve, do you get guys who are not really looking for long term relationships but more of an 'arrangement'? I'd say sponsorship, but I don't really mean that. For vacations, intermittent visits; time spent together in exchange for shopping, money, or other benefits?
If you see such things do you ban the guys or allow it if the women are happy?
I ask because one sees any number of couples around the world where the age/looks do not match but where couples are obviously 'together'. And, of course, there are plenty of women who seek out exactly that sort of relationship.
Coincidentally, I was looking at a site suggested by a friend. As we are now just starting a new university year, it was notable how many young girls in a particular university town were seeking 'arrangements' in order to make their university life more comfortable. It was clear from the profiles that they are each trying to find a way to solve their financial issues in ways that fit within their individual comfort zones. Some were happy to have a relationship of sorts, others wanted to have something long term but very discreet, still others were offering individual transactions.
Even on Tinder, in the UK, I was seeing this. Girls 23 or under, at university, who actively sought some 'sugar' from older, 'generous' guys. Some were clearly foreign girls, others were, as far as I could tell, British.
Yes lots and nothing wrong with that providing they indicate it ..
A few women will say they just want a trips and fun nothing more.. I don't see nothing wrong with that if they admit it from the start. If a guy reports such a women she will not get removed usually ..
Same for men there are plenty of men who just want trips, meetings sex and usual stuff, that is up to them.. and in any case these men are usually older men who want young women.. those young women know exactly what the deal is usually so it is up to them to solve between them selves ... generally the older men who just want sex or fun will not contact any serious women , so little complaints there..
But there are lots of men who have no money and will entice the girl to his country on the promise of refunding her ticket .. they never do and usually they will live in some shit hole expecting the women to sleep with him and have sex.. lots of women complain about this and I think it is getting more common..
But also women are not so stupid these days , they know men who are scammers or just want to waste time..
A bit of every thing, but I guess as long as there is no lies or deceit on the web site everyone is and adult and has some kind of brain in their skull..
There are a few acceptations like the old 80 year old papa .. offering a better life, to pay for university fees (I think it's free anyway) setting her up in her own business and so on.. for all that you just need to move in with the old git and have sex with him as much as he can..
He is still waiting for a taker .. been about 5 years now.. :laugh:
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Steve, do you get guys who are not really looking for long term relationships but more of an 'arrangement'? I'd say sponsorship, but I don't really mean that. For vacations, intermittent visits; time spent together in exchange for shopping, money, or other benefits?
If you see such things do you ban the guys or allow it if the women are happy?
I ask because one sees any number of couples around the world where the age/looks do not match but where couples are obviously 'together'. And, of course, there are plenty of women who seek out exactly that sort of relationship.
Coincidentally, I was looking at a site suggested by a friend.
Even on Tinder, in the UK, I was seeing this. Girls 23 or under, at university, who actively sought some 'sugar' from older, 'generous' guys. Some were clearly foreign girls, others were, as far as I could tell, British.
I don't think Steve's sites specialize in this. And if you wanted such an arrangement, it's a much better idea to go to a site that is explicitly about this. Because on such a site, you will be able to find girls genuinely willing to follow through on such an arrangement, and you would be able to message them/tell them explicitly what you want, rather than having to dance around it.
But yes, in these photos he shows of imbalanced matchups - I can empathize with these men. Just because you're 60 and look like that doesn't mean you don't still prefer a woman who looks like the right. So in a situation like this, an "arrangement" is the only way that man will get to have sex with that woman.
I wonder what long term "arrangements" actually cost....
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Why do some folks blart on about stuff they don't know?
Why do some folks imagine stuff, because it suits their prejudices?
Only if one is severely unable to discern sounds can one confuse the Russian word for black man as 'nigger'. It just isn't the same.
My guess is that this a case of language false friends. One understands almost nothing of what one hears and so the brain catches onto words that sound familiar. I think that many people genuinely think that the word they recall being spoken DID sound like nigger. It was a mind trick played by the brain in trying to understand its unfamiliar environment.
Again, direct quote. "Is it true in the USA they have n*****s there?"
Pretty sure that isn't my brain trying to make sense, this girl doesn't generally mix languages when she talks to me.
And again, I don't take this alone as a sign of racism. Honestly I was just amused, thinking about how if I could clean this girl up a bit (and she lost weight), she'd be an epic trophy wife. In fact, I think successful men with wives who look like her throw dinner parties just so they can let everyone know they have a wife that looks like her.
Anyways, I was thinking about showing off my potential hot future wife to my friends and how much of a downer it would be if she inadvertently blurted out the word. Like taking a shit at the dinner table in my social group.
No, a different girl was clearly racist, she spouted on and on various extreme right wing talking points, how the government in the USA spends it's tax dollars helping n*******s who are too lazy to get a job, etc. But to be fair, this one was the divorced pro-dater who lives in Miami, and I think she was just parroting whatever her ex-husband, some obviously right wing guy that worked in DC, would tell her.
(this isn't true. while yes, some section 8 money and other programs does go to a permanent underclass who for various reasons remain marginally employable for generations, it's a negligible part of the Federal budget...)
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Steve, do you get guys who are not really looking for long term relationships but more of an 'arrangement'? I'd say sponsorship, but I don't really mean that. For vacations, intermittent visits; time spent together in exchange for shopping, money, or other benefits?
If you see such things do you ban the guys or allow it if the women are happy?
I ask because one sees any number of couples around the world where the age/looks do not match but where couples are obviously 'together'. And, of course, there are plenty of women who seek out exactly that sort of relationship.
Coincidentally, I was looking at a site suggested by a friend.
Even on Tinder, in the UK, I was seeing this. Girls 23 or under, at university, who actively sought some 'sugar' from older, 'generous' guys. Some were clearly foreign girls, others were, as far as I could tell, British.
I don't think Steve's sites specialize in this. And if you wanted such an arrangement, it's a much better idea to go to a site that is explicitly about this. Because on such a site, you will be able to find girls genuinely willing to follow through on such an arrangement, and you would be able to message them/tell them explicitly what you want, rather than having to dance around it.
But yes, in these photos he shows of imbalanced matchups - I can empathize with these men. Just because you're 60 and look like that doesn't mean you don't still prefer a woman who looks like the right. So in a situation like this, an "arrangement" is the only way that man will get to have sex with that woman.
I wonder what long term "arrangements" actually cost....
I can't say much about Ukraine as im not sure but for Russia I doubt if there are many young beautiful women needing any such arrangements with 60/70 year old men
why would they??
Just pop into town any weekend evening and the smart bars will be stacked full of young beautiful girls 20-30 years old many would be every mans dream.. but they don't need to spend time with some old guy for a new I-phone or watch.. or some nice hand bag.. they already got it.. and out side there are plenty of young Russian guys driving around in top of the range cars, BMW's brand new Range Rovers and so on.. if your a young beautiful girl here you just need to pop down a few bars on a Saturday night flick your eyelids a bit and you already with a man who can give you what you want..
Back on the subject of older guys , say in their 60's if they use some common sense it is as easy as 1-2-3 to find yourself a beautiful older women 40-45 years old.. that's like 15/20 years younger than themselves... lots of beautiful women in their 40's!
Unfortunately to many men consider them selves some kind of movie star and think it is their divine right to marry a young beauty 30/40 years younger than themselves..
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I can't say much about Ukraine as im not sure but for Russia I doubt if there are many young beautiful women needing any such arrangements with 60/70 year old men
why would they??
Just pop into town any weekend evening and the smart bars will be stacked full of young beautiful girls 20-30 years old many would be every mans dream.. but they don't need to spend time with some old guy for a new I-phone or watch.. or some nice hand bag.. they already got it.. and out side there are plenty of young Russian guys driving around in top of the range cars, BMW's brand new Range Rovers and so on.. if your a young beautiful girl here you just need to pop down a few bars on a Saturday night flick your eyelids a bit and you already with a man who can give you what you want..
I can't speak for Russia or Ukraine. But I will comment that while yes, there are plenty of girls who are doing well, this is also true in the United States. Yet it is still readily possible to find, using certain websites, girls who will take around $600-800 per week (or about $250-$500 per meeting), who are slim, Caucasian, and in their early 20s, for an arrangement. I am speaking from personal experience in the United States.
So given the cost level is about 1/3 that in Ukraine, and also fairly low in Russia except in Moscow, and the average monthly salary is 385 a month, and almost all girls are Caucasian and slim, I suspect, if you could find the girls who don't yet have gucci everything...such as younger college students, and communicate with them your offer, you could probably readily find takers who would enter into an arrangement. For about 1/2 to 1/3 the USA price.
Anyways this is all theory, I guess I would need to conduct some experiments to validate my hypothesis.
The reason I am thinking I need to shift to a new strategy is that walking about Kiev, I realize that I am only going to live or even remain " :censored: able" for so long, and I should be getting it while the getting is good. And I see all these 9.5/10 22 year old hotties just everywhere, realize that they would not marry me, but I still want them. So how can I make this happen? I realize the only reason I had been thinking "marriage" was because I am only permitted so many days by my corporate masters to be here. (and thus I have to bring a girl home, and the US state department is not chill with men bringing their mistresses home)
But the real fix is not to marry a 5/10 girl, it's to get a different set of corporate masters who allow me more remote work and enjoy a few years of life with various 9.5/10 women...
And there's the "Jerry Springer" strategy. Find a hot mistress, get her pregnant, apply for a K-2 visa, then when she lives with me in the USA, well, soon you are a candidate for that TV show...
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If your in your 60's looking for a younger women in Ukraine or Russia as long as you don't look like the Frankenstein.. really its as easy as 1-2-3 you can be married within year, there are plenty of older women who are very unlikely to scam you and will be 100% serious..
Just use your loaf a little and job done..
Fantasy
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69645865_2270323046399920_449262014477369344_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQnXstfGewhGZPN0jTqVTJKJ4Z7IXTaUr6SzPQFazC1MH6vJiNVlWhNQPqt02BQbobY&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=8a646e9336b2e4067c401479ff87f988&oe=5DFC5FD9)
Reality!! And these women are both 40 years old that's nearly 20 years age difference.. obviously it will not be good enough for some ..
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70014500_2270757226356502_330248191532335104_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQkEDQW-fgT-cw6IKvbK-wGq8Svj6Q0er_k1tsR2p3pvgz6e-ZrZa6xyQK3GzmFg_Lo&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=e41aeb9b61e6295579439af0a9596a83&oe=5DF9F869)
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69571193_2270757283023163_895157801091858432_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQm-6uZ2vT8E8428Drt40rc-l4cL4nfqfmiJx3kjuzUgfzgz-00Sb-AJZv7kCeyI9Vc&_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.xx&oh=8ca1b970ef3cb55f62dc84c0bc07691b&oe=5DCD2A27)
Now don't they look a happy couple??
I could be a love doctor one day.. :ROFL:
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Well you could as said before change your mindset from objects to real persons with real desires. A man to get married to and family.
Then focus on one girl!
You could go for marriage with natalie in Kiev who is a agency with a match maker and very good at it.
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You could go for marriage with natalie in Kiev who is a agency with a match maker and very good at it.
Is there a list of actually legitimate, non fraudulent marriage agencies? I have heard that the ones here in Ukraine are 100% scams, simply because the fees are high enough that they just pay the girl to "date" you, where you will always be with the "required" translator during the date. (and the girl will never agree to an unchaperoned date or direct contact info - even though as I have found out, the girls I have met can rob me just fine even though I have their number and there are no chaperones...)
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Ok put obstacles up in your mind and go nowhere.
Maybe Natali is different but you will never know if you don't give it a go and against the odds given by this forum what do you have to loose?
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Ok put obstacles up in your mind and go nowhere.
Maybe Natali is different but you will never know if you don't give it a go and against the odds given by this forum what do you have to loose?
Thousands of dollars, money I could have spent on a mistress where I get what I want immediately in the short term. That's what I "have to lose".
Also I could spend the same thousands of dollars on a firm like CQMI, where, being incorporated not in Ukraine, they have "something to lose" - a potential lawsuit or even imprisonment for fraud if they were in fact taking client's money and using it to pay girls to pretend.
So no, I'm just stating that from first impressions, if I want to "get somewhere", and have finite money*, there are probably better routes. Unless other forum posters have tried Natalie out...?
*and come to think of it, if I were a billionaire and had effectively limitless money, I still wouldn't have unlimited time. Also, getting married is a terrible financial decision for a millionaire much less a billionaire. Mistresses are going to be far cheaper....
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So why the hell are you on girl hunt in Ukraine? They are looking for a man to marry and if you have to protech your wealth assets and all then it does not mix or work! You are in Ukraine for the WRONG reasons!
The right approach will give you the trofy girl.
Match makers in business are different than cheap crap PPL sites.
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Many 'beginning' Russian speakers ignore all the various forms of words and stick to a single form, but of course, Russians and Russian speakers do not. Hence there's more confusion for some neophytes over the sounds of words.
Indeed, had she had said chornaya zhopa or some such, there would be little doubt as to the intent.
Forget Google. I just asked my wife to say the Russian version of the word to me. It came out "Niggr" - argue about the sound of an "e" mid word all you like, it sounds almost the same to me.
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So why the hell are you on girl hunt in Ukraine? They are looking for a man to marry and if you have to protech your wealth assets and all then it does not mix or work! You are in Ukraine for the WRONG reasons!
The right approach will give you the trofy girl.
Match makers in business are different than cheap crap PPL sites.
I just need to find a matchmaker business that is, again, not pulling the same scam the PPL sites are pulling. Other people on this very site have expressed the opinion that the same criminals and fraudsters running the PPL sites run most or all of the "marriage agencies". I don't have any other information, I don't know if this is true or not.
I am then pointing out that getting scammed out of thousands of dollars is in fact "something to lose".
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You could go for marriage with natalie in Kiev who is a agency with a match maker and very good at it.
Is there a list of actually legitimate, non fraudulent marriage agencies? I have heard that the ones here in Ukraine are 100% scams, simply because the fees are high enough that they just pay the girl to "date" you, where you will always be with the "required" translator during the date. (and the girl will never agree to an unchaperoned date or direct contact info - even though as I have found out, the girls I have met can rob me just fine even though I have their number and there are no chaperones...)
99.5 % are scams for sure.. im sure there maybe a few honest ones.. remember your in Ukraine.. few are honest there..as you already found out..
Keep away from any translation services, text services or any of that shit.. they all want your money cos they are to lazy to work for it.. or think they are owed a living..
Best advice Get out now:)
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So why the hell are you on girl hunt in Ukraine? They are looking for a man to marry and if you have to protech your wealth assets and all then it does not mix or work! You are in Ukraine for the WRONG reasons!
The right approach will give you the trofy girl.
Match makers in business are different than cheap crap PPL sites.
I just need to find a matchmaker business that is, again, not pulling the same scam the PPL sites are pulling. Other people on this very site have expressed the opinion that the same criminals and fraudsters running the PPL sites run most or all of the "marriage agencies". I don't have any other information, I don't know if this is true or not.
I am then pointing out that getting scammed out of thousands of dollars is in fact "something to lose".
Every thing in Ukraine is scam... have you been for a piss yet? will probably be some one outside wanting to help you for JUST $5000.00 Cos EVERY western man always carries $5000 in cash.. its just pocket money!!
Do not trust anyone! It is the best advice ever!
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So why the hell are you on girl hunt in Ukraine? They are looking for a man to marry and if you have to protech your wealth assets and all then it does not mix or work! You are in Ukraine for the WRONG reasons!
The right approach will give you the trofy girl.
Match makers in business are different than cheap crap PPL sites.
I just need to find a matchmaker business that is, again, not pulling the same scam the PPL sites are pulling. Other people on this very site have expressed the opinion that the same criminals and fraudsters running the PPL sites run most or all of the "marriage agencies". I don't have any other information, I don't know if this is true or not.
I am then pointing out that getting scammed out of thousands of dollars is in fact "something to lose".
You did not even google: marriage with Natali and form your own opinion did you?
Sure you are doing what everybody else has tried or think of which is the majority of people due to not being creative.
Being creative is finding the way that works but still marríage is the question in the end and simple enough even in Ukraine. The right people is still there and you just have to check them out to find them. While in Kiev you can save you loss and see if I am full of it or not.
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I can't speak to the inability of folks to distinguish sounds. However it seems clear to me that there is a big difference between the sounds I shared and the sound of the word 'nigger'. Those sounds also reflect the words that I know and that I provided rough transliteration of the other day.
Habeed, that a woman, speaking to you in English used the word 'nigger' given her native language and culture is no surprise. Again, you are overlaying your own culture and prejudices upon another person. Important point: language is a form of programming. Her use of words is informed by her cultural background and mores. The word nigger has a very different set of cultural associations in Ukraine to the USA. She'd have been using the word as a kind of false friend, assuming, reasonably enough, that the similar word had similar meaning to the words with which she was familiar.
If you see her again, ask about the kind of music she enjoys, or enjoyed during her teens. I bet I can tell you what she liked, from what you have told us. ;)
Commenting upon what she sees, as an outsider of matters in the USA, again, does not make her racist. There are plenty of your countrymen who believe what she heard and commented upon. A large number of your countrymen who hold such beliefs would not consider themselves racist and, indeed, the opinion itself is not racist.
The opinion held by your countrymen might be ill-informed but it seems as though your interlocutor was pretty well up on some of the issues your country faces possibly better informed about your homeland than you of hers.
Are you projecting your own cultural bias and prejudice upon others? Not uncommon and something to be aware of. I have seen the same issues in other people, probably I have been guilty of doing the same in the past.
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Many 'beginning' Russian speakers ignore all the various forms of words and stick to a single form, but of course, Russians and Russian speakers do not. Hence there's more confusion for some neophytes over the sounds of words.
Indeed, had she had said chornaya zhopa or some such, there would be little doubt as to the intent.
Forget Google. I just asked my wife to say the Russian version of the word to me. It came out "Niggr" - argue about the sound of an "e" mid word all you like, it sounds almost the same to me.
Having been to China you must have heared a very similar word in Mandarin which translates to "that". "Nigga" or something to that extend ;) It's pretty much in every other sentence ;)
.
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Many 'beginning' Russian speakers ignore all the various forms of words and stick to a single form, but of course, Russians and Russian speakers do not. Hence there's more confusion for some neophytes over the sounds of words.
Indeed, had she had said chornaya zhopa or some such, there would be little doubt as to the intent.
Forget Google. I just asked my wife to say the Russian version of the word to me. It came out "Niggr" - argue about the sound of an "e" mid word all you like, it sounds almost the same to me.
Having been to China you must have heard a very similar word in Mandarin which translates to "that". "Niga" or something to that extend ;)
I've never heard it in China actually. There aren't so many of them about where I go so they are unlikely to crop up in conversation. The Chinese seem more concerned about Muslims from what I know.
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lots of these scammers will tell you it is not easy to visit them because they are in a war zone .. :laugh:
Well that is actually true!! The difference is the war is between you and the scammers and all that ride with them, and that's how you need to think of it..
So as soon as "boots are on the ground" treat the whole trip like you are in a bloody battle field kill or be killed..
1. At no costs part with any money it is simple as that.. if some bitch takes you to a restaurant and it looks like the bill is going to be more than expected.. wait for her to go for a piss then leave..leave with out paying the bill and leave the problem with her..
2. never tell any women where you are staying in Kiev unless you actually hit it off but new eating say you are staying at some other hotel.. just in case you need to leave early and leave the bill for her..
3. DO not in any circumstances accept any help from the sucka's friends, it will usually be a friend who just happens to be a taxi driver or some other shit NEVER MEET HER FRIENDS!!
4. Don't get *** around the very second you think she's after your cash drop her there and then, where ever you are are.. who gives a shit? You do not know her and she knows little about you or even where you're staying..
5, Trust no one..
6. Your in war only the fittest survive if you want to be a real Ukrainain women hunter act like a hunter..take no shit and kill if you have to.. :laugh:
7. Stay alive alive at all costs..
8. Never take any alcohol at some women house you do not know.. could find yourself robbed during the night..
9. kill kill kill or they will kill you!! Stay as a lean mean killing Ukrainian women searcher... ;D
Do that the rest is easy.. so next you need some girls to meet?
Simple Tinder!! as easy as 1--2-3 if your there in Kiev.. Be blunt straight to the point, say some bullshit like your living there (that way less chance of some stupid women thinking she has stupid foreigner after her..you can meet loads on Tinder.. But be brutal!! meet in some NORMAL bar for a few drinks.. the second you think she's playing for expensive food.. dump her e there and then.. in fact while you are sat with her also be on Tinder planning some other meetings.. stuff what she thinks she is a no body..
Go to some night clubs!! Easy to pick up just a NORMAL girl not looking for a foreigner..
Just be bloody ruthless all the time you are there.. remember your in a WAR zone!! you may think what I said is crazy BUT it is true! :smokin:
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- even though as I have found out, the girls I have met can rob me just fine even though I have their number and there are no chaperones...)
why didn't you say no to buying the mobile phone or groceries? Would you buy some girl a phone on a 1st date stateside?
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I can't speak to the inability of folks to distinguish sounds. However it seems clear to me that there is a big difference between the sounds I shared and the sound of the word 'nigger'. Those sounds also reflect the words that I know and that I provided rough transliteration of the other day.
I few of my Russian friends have said that word in English to me and it sounds the same. They would ask "Are there alot of nigg*rs in America?" And I would tell them to not say that, especially to a black person.
Even in Russian there isn't that big a difference in sound, if you heard them say it you would know for sure what they meant.
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Having been to China you must have heared a very similar word in Mandarin which translates to "that". "Nigga" or something to that extend ;) It's pretty much in every other sentence ;)
The phrase you are referring to is 那個, spoken casually it is pronounced "nEI ge"...it's a filler word in Chinese that could be like "uhhh or ummm"
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lots of these scammers will tell you it is not easy to visit them because they are in a war zone .. :laugh:
Well that is actually true!! The difference is the war is between you and the scammers and all that ride with them, and that's how you need to think of it..
So as soon as "boots are on the ground" treat the whole trip like you are in a bloody battle field kill or be killed..
1. At no costs part with any money it is simple as that.. if some bitch takes you to a restaurant and it looks like the bill is going to be more than expected.. wait for her to go for a piss then leave..leave with out paying the bill and leave the problem with her..
2. never tell any women where you are staying in Kiev unless you actually hit it off but new eating say you are staying at some other hotel.. just in case you need to leave early and leave the bill for her..
3. DO not in any circumstances accept any help from the sucka's friends, it will usually be a friend who just happens to be a taxi driver or some other shit NEVER MEET HER FRIENDS!!
4. Don't get *** around the very second you think she's after your cash drop her there and then, where ever you are are.. who gives a shit? You do not know her and she knows little about you or even where you're staying..
5, Trust no one..
6. Your in war only the fittest survive if you want to be a real Ukrainain women hunter act like a hunter..take no shit and kill if you have to.. :laugh:
7. Stay alive alive at all costs..
8. Never take any alcohol at some women house you do not know.. could find yourself robbed during the night..
9. kill kill kill or they will kill you!! Stay as a lean mean killing Ukrainian women searcher... ;D
Do that the rest is easy.. so next you need some girls to meet?
Simple Tinder!! as easy as 1--2-3 if your there in Kiev.. Be blunt straight to the point, say some bullshit like your living there (that way less chance of some stupid women thinking she has stupid foreigner after her..you can meet loads on Tinder.. But be brutal!! meet in some NORMAL bar for a few drinks.. the second you think she's playing for expensive food.. dump her e there and then.. in fact while you are sat with her also be on Tinder planning some other meetings.. stuff what she thinks she is a no body..
Go to some night clubs!! Easy to pick up just a NORMAL girl not looking for a foreigner..
Just be bloody ruthless all the time you are there.. remember your in a WAR zone!! you may think what I said is crazy BUT it is true! :smokin:
While I will say LS didn't scam me to the maximum possible extent - she took me to reasonable places and would ask before ordering - she just is a little grabby on taxi fare - I think you are somewhat correct. I just read of a recent (last 3 months) report/guide to how a man handled the girls here. And yeah, somewhat like handling high level nuclear waste.
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Many 'beginning' Russian speakers ignore all the various forms of words and stick to a single form, but of course, Russians and Russian speakers do not. Hence there's more confusion for some neophytes over the sounds of words.
Indeed, had she had said chornaya zhopa or some such, there would be little doubt as to the intent.
Forget Google. I just asked my wife to say the Russian version of the word to me. It came out "Niggr" - argue about the sound of an "e" mid word all you like, it sounds almost the same to me.
same here. in my mind it sounds like n*gger
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lots of these scammers will tell you it is not easy to visit them because they are in a war zone .. :laugh:
Well that is actually true!! The difference is the war is between you and the scammers and all that ride with them, and that's how you need to think of it..
So as soon as "boots are on the ground" treat the whole trip like you are in a bloody battle field kill or be killed..
1. At no costs part with any money it is simple as that.. if some bitch takes you to a restaurant and it looks like the bill is going to be more than expected.. wait for her to go for a piss then leave..leave with out paying the bill and leave the problem with her..
2. never tell any women where you are staying in Kiev unless you actually hit it off but new eating say you are staying at some other hotel.. just in case you need to leave early and leave the bill for her..
3. DO not in any circumstances accept any help from the sucka's friends, it will usually be a friend who just happens to be a taxi driver or some other shit NEVER MEET HER FRIENDS!!
4. Don't get *** around the very second you think she's after your cash drop her there and then, where ever you are are.. who gives a shit? You do not know her and she knows little about you or even where you're staying..
5, Trust no one..
6. Your in war only the fittest survive if you want to be a real Ukrainain women hunter act like a hunter..take no shit and kill if you have to.. :laugh:
7. Stay alive alive at all costs..
8. Never take any alcohol at some women house you do not know.. could find yourself robbed during the night..
9. kill kill kill or they will kill you!! Stay as a lean mean killing Ukrainian women searcher... ;D
Do that the rest is easy.. so next you need some girls to meet?
Simple Tinder!! as easy as 1--2-3 if your there in Kiev.. Be blunt straight to the point, say some bullshit like your living there (that way less chance of some stupid women thinking she has stupid foreigner after her..you can meet loads on Tinder.. But be brutal!! meet in some NORMAL bar for a few drinks.. the second you think she's playing for expensive food.. dump her e there and then.. in fact while you are sat with her also be on Tinder planning some other meetings.. stuff what she thinks she is a no body..
Go to some night clubs!! Easy to pick up just a NORMAL girl not looking for a foreigner..
Just be bloody ruthless all the time you are there.. remember your in a WAR zone!! you may think what I said is crazy BUT it is true! :smokin:
While I will say LS didn't scam me to the maximum possible extent - she took me to reasonable places and would ask before ordering - she just is a little grabby on taxi fare - I think you are somewhat correct. I just read of a recent (last 3 months) report/guide to how a man handled the girls here. And yeah, somewhat like handling high level nuclear waste.
Yes a bloody war zone.. get yours self some ear plugs listen to some good Vietnam war music full blast and get out there amongst it..
Try Tinder.. marriage agencies are a total wast of time especially for some guy your age.. ok if your looking for an older women and happen to find a good agency (not easy) you may have some chance..
But young women? naaaaa they don't go for that shit any more.. it would be like asking some girl to go use a call box to call her friend.. you think some young modern girl will use a prehistoric way of meeting guys? Of course not!
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99.5 % are scams for sure.. im sure there maybe a few honest ones.. remember your in Ukraine.. few are honest there..as you already found out..
There is virtually ZERO difference between people in Ukraine or Russia. But because Ukraine has become the "hub" of Eastern Europe's "MOB" business, and so many foreign men come to Ukraine for that purpose and/or cheap sex, any industry involving meeting women has some scam factor built in. Women there are incredibly jaded when it comes to foreign men.
While I will say LS didn't scam me to the maximum possible extent - she took me to reasonable places and would ask before ordering.
The average Ukrainian can't eat somewhere that is $15 per person often.
So given the cost level is about 1/3 that in Ukraine, and also fairly low in Russia except in Moscow, and the average monthly salary is 385 a month, and almost all girls are Caucasian and slim, I suspect, if you could find the girls who don't yet have gucci everything...such as younger college students, and communicate with them your offer, you could probably readily find takers who would enter into an arrangement. For about 1/2 to 1/3 the USA price.
Anyways this is all theory, I guess I would need to conduct some experiments to validate my hypothesis.
The reason I am thinking I need to shift to a new strategy is that walking about Kiev, I realize that I am only going to live or even remain " :censored: able" for so long, and I should be getting it while the getting is good. And I see all these 9.5/10 22 year old hotties just everywhere, realize that they would not marry me, but I still want them. So how can I make this happen? I realize the only reason I had been thinking "marriage" was because I am only permitted so many days by my corporate masters to be here. (and thus I have to bring a girl home, and the US state department is not chill with men bringing their mistresses home)
But the real fix is not to marry a 5/10 girl, it's to get a different set of corporate masters who allow me more remote work and enjoy a few years of life with various 9.5/10 women...
(:) (:) There are plenty of Ukrainian men who are making salaries comparable to yours, and lots that are making far, far higher amounts, that 9/10 Ukrainian women are marrying, or to whom they are mistresses. You will never be able to compete with those men, in many respects.
I also disagree with Steve that you will be less likely to be scammed if you say you are living in Ukraine. You are still a foreigner, and always will be.
Finally, the biggest "scam" site in the world is US based, so location is irrelevant to this.
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I can't speak to the inability of folks to distinguish sounds. However it seems clear to me that there is a big difference between the sounds I shared and the sound of the word 'nigger'. Those sounds also reflect the words that I know and that I provided rough transliteration of the other day.
I few of my Russian friends have said that word in English to me and it sounds the same. They would ask "Are there alot of nigg*rs in America?" And I would tell them to not say that, especially to a black person.
Why not just tell the truth and say, yes?
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99.5 % are scams for sure.. im sure there maybe a few honest ones.. remember your in Ukraine.. few are honest there..as you already found out..
There is virtually ZERO difference between people in Ukraine or Russia. But because Ukraine has become the "hub" of Eastern Europe's "MOB" business, and so many foreign men come to Ukraine for that purpose and/or cheap sex, any industry involving meeting women has some scam factor built in. Women there are incredibly jaded when it comes to foreign men.
You said there was zero difference, and then went on to illustrate the major difference. :coffeeread:
The OP, Habeed, uses a middle eastern moniker but says he is "pure blood American" which is meaningless. I'd suggest a pure blood American is a native one, a "Red Indian" as we used to call them. Anyone else is a child of immigrants surely? The US is built on immigration.
A better question for Habeed is what ethnicity are you? Because if middle eastern or other non-white, this will hamper you and impact the advice you receive. That is relevant.
Currently, I am unsure if this chap is preaching to us as to how he thinks things should be, or asking advice from those who wear the t-shirt. I'm thinking he is talking at us, as he doesn't take advice or acknowledge inconvenient replies (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,28355.msg499206.html#msg499206) that dont fit his narrative.
Habeed, do you want advice from people who know this stuff inside out or would you like to tell our members how you think life should be?
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I few of my Russian friends have said that word in English to me and it sounds the same. They would ask "Are there alot of nigg*rs in America?" And I would tell them to not say that, especially to a black person.
Why not just tell the truth and say, yes?
I think you misread my post. I am telling them not to say the word "n*gger". Of course I know there's alot of black people in the USA. I hang with da brothas alot. Meet me in Compton or Riverside lol.
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There is virtually ZERO difference between people in Ukraine or Russia.
(:) (:) There are plenty of Ukrainian men who are making salaries comparable to yours, and lots that are making far, far higher amounts, that 9/10 Ukrainian women are marrying, or to whom they are mistresses. You will never be able to compete with those men, in many respects.
I also disagree with Steve that you will be less likely to be scammed if you say you are living in Ukraine. You are still a foreigner, and always will be.
Finally, the biggest "scam" site in the world is US based, so location is irrelevant to this.
Wrong. I know both Ukrainians and Russians. Most don't like each other and would say their are big differences.
There aren't that many oligarchs in the Ukraine. Moscow yes. There are plenty of poor Ukrainian girls to go around. He's not competing with those men. You obviously haven't lived in Russia and dated local women there. Useless info as usual from the 60+ western woman who doesn't even live in Ukraine.
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Manny what sort of candid feedback have you had from men who may have used your primary adverts company to the right of this forum?
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No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife.
I humbly and respectfully disagree :duh:
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Hey Habeed, I applaud your openness. I will try to stick to I statements and not try to extrapolate how my experiences might extend to someone else. I'm sorry you have gotten such a small amount of validation and so much criticism. I'd like to say that most of the guys mean well here, but I don't really believe that's the case. I think it's unfortunate that posters feel such an apparent need to belittle, especially when we are talking about something as delicate as romantic relations. Having said that, there is a lot of collective wisdom here (ok wisdom might be a stretch. Collective knowledge), although tapping into it can often be frustrating.
I'm middle aged, make about $10K less per year than you, own real estate and some cool cars, am thin and in shape for my age, have all my hair, and am 2 inches above average height for US males.
I have made 4 trips to Ukraine. I have been engaged to two UA girls, both of whom were quite a bit younger than me and attractive (8s or 9s in the right clothes). One of them came to the US and lived with me for 70 days. I behaved poorly and decided not to marry.
While dating them in Ukraine we ate $20 dinners. I didn't buy them gifts. I sent the first girl less than $500 over the 3 months our engagement lasted. I bought them both $300 engagement rings. I sent the second girl $1500 for transportation to the US. But I gave her $5K in guilt money after I called it off because I wanted to try to help her get back on her feet. The first girl was diagnosed with a nervous breakdown and spent a few weeks in an institution after I broke it off. My experiences were arguably disasters from a human standpoint. And although it may seem like they paid the price, watching others suffer because of my poor choices took a toll on me.
I don't consider myself to be a Casanova or much of a success by any measure, really.
Having said all of that, I am planning a return trip.
These are a few of my conclusions:
1. UA women are friendlier to me than US women.
2. I can date/marry a hotter/"higher value" UA woman than I can a US woman.
3. I get lonely easily. I was lonelier in Ukraine than when I am at home.
4. Romantic relationships, and the pursuit thereof, whether at home or abroad, are very difficult for me to navigate!
I sent you a PM.
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No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife.
I humbly and respectfully disagree :duh:
Then again, I guess I don't really know you yet.
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Justadude, in the interest of clarity. What is the status of your ongoing relationship with the American woman? The one with whom you were betraying your last Ukrainian fiancée?
Does she not treat you as well as the poor woman you lied to, betrayed, and drove away?
How is the mental health of your second victim? Is she recovering from the torment you put her through?
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Manny what sort of candid feedback have you had from men who may have used your primary adverts company to the right of this forum?
I don't get too much feedback at all, but most of these sites do what they need to do for those who use them. Any marriages are really a side event and not really much to do with the actual business model.
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The 'business' always has been about revenues generated by the >95% of fantasists and fappers. Marriages are the acceptable justification for the vast majority of paying clients to keep paying and fapping.
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Answering two queries : when I said American I meant a white dude only marginally distinguishable from the crowd of Ukrainians around me. I think a sharp eye might see my facial structure is different but that's about it.
And second, regarding my mistress proposal I was contemplating: average incomes are averages. In order for the average to be 400 USD a month, or whatever it is including black market income, there have to be an awful lot of poor Ukrainian men and women for every rich one. So if it came to a bidding war for Miss Ukraine 2018, sure, I would lose, but I would be perfectly happy with about a third of the girls I see on the street.
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Sponsorship can be fun but has its own drawbacks. Not the least being that if one is not there very often, or for long, it is a waste of money.
Emotionally it can be a problem too because while she sees it as a money transaction, guys tend to not do so. I reckon the arrangement best suits married guys. Most girls who do it are, I reckon, aged well under 30. The older ones are often hookers looking for regular clients. Some might say there's not much difference in practice. :)
As for money, no woman is likely to come to an exclusive arrangement where she only gets 'average income' that makes no sense for her. A very good looking woman will incur costs that are not met on 'average wages'. Also, her expectations, realistic or not, will not be met by such a low wage.
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That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.
The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks. From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.
Why not just tell the truth and say, yes?
It depends on where you are. A black friend of mine sometimes stops in on his way to or from NYC. When he does he's "the black guy" in town that day.
In other places, there will be loads.
B/B
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No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife.
I humbly and respectfully disagree :duh:
I meant no one I know personally! :)
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You said there was zero difference, and then went on to illustrate the major difference. :coffeeread:
There is zero difference between the people. If the "MOB" industry existed in Russia as it does in Ukraine, the same issues would arise continuously in Russia.
The Russian economy improved and hence, the "MOB" industry dried up. In Ukraine, the economy is poor, unlike in Russia, there is no social safety net, high unemployment, and people scramble to make money.
The Russian government put pressure on the "industry", first with lots of newspaper articles recounting the tales of women who moved abroad and did not find happiness, then with what the country was losing. It also cracked down legally, with tax investigations and shutdown of agencies, and prosecution of scammers - not individual women, but organized large scale scamming. Do you remember when Yoshkar Ola was the scam capital of the "MOB" industry?
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That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.
The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks. From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.
B/B
That's my experience, but I think it is a lack of familiarity rather than 'racism' per se. The racism is for other groups, as Manny mentioned.
Younger women have a curiosity that tends to add value to a decent looking young black guy - at least for short term relationships. The only older black guy I knew well in Estonia, which is pretty similar to what I saw of Russia in this kind of stuff, was married to a white woman but got on well with local women socially. Actually, one other black guy, west Indian bloke, jazz musician, also older did pretty damn fine. Was that a colour thing or a 'fame' thing? I don't really know.
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man with all that money for tours maybe I should set up my own tour company in Russia!
LOL...
Guile wrote:
"Man with all that money for tours maybe I should set up my own tour company in Russia!"
Key is to focus on upscale tours with plenty of 2nd passport hunting ladies looking for a real plan B in case the SHTF in mother Russia after Putin and Medvedev are no longer Czars of Modern Russia.
I am sure I can supply a lot of clients - the Elizabeth Warren/Kamala Harris Marxist Socialial Justice Warrior women are bloody insufferable - any feminine Russian women who have no desire to live like a starving Cuban, Venezuelan and or Nicaraguan socialist would be a far better life mate...
Shoot me an email to my [PM me for the address] address and I will give you a heads up on the project I have been focused 100% on the past two years...
Cheers,
Mike "Cufflinks"
P.S. I tried to send Guile a PM and it said User Guile can not receive private messages??? Is he retired KGB ;-)
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I personally know several Russian women in their 20's-30's who only want to date a foreign, specifically North American guy. Not European or British.
They are all in Moscow. If I can set something up next time I am there I'll get the ball rolling. Now these girls aren't model 10's mind you. But they are real and attractive and feminine. Some have decent English.
One actually went to the USA to get married to a Russian/American guy! Another is in Texas doing her Masters degree but she's married already.
And I have a few more but they are for me ;D ;D
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That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.
The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks. From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.
There was a time when black men were in vogue in the nightclubs of Moscow. It was kind of an experimental thing for about 2 years.
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About me: I've been a member of this site for a long time, but due to circumstances in my life, at the ripe old age of 36 I finally was able to actually get on a plane. I'm a white male who is 2 inches below average height by U.S. standards (as most members here will know, this drastically lowers my chances on the US side), I look younger than macaulay culkin who's my age, and my BMI is 24.9*. I work as an embedded software engineer in the USA and earn the typical low six figures most of us make.
One of the challenges in my search is I don't know what this equates to in "market value"**. Here in Kiev I see countless versions of the long legged brunette, basically Lily James. This is what my subconscious mind scores the highest in terms of value - a woman with light brown hair like mine, and the thinner the better. (ribs showing but not starving basically) I don't know if I could win over one in her mid 20s, or early 30s, or I have to settle for an overweight woman with children who's 35.
In Round 1, I visited Kiev in December 2019. I met with 2 women I met through a single website, UKD:
LS Date 1. With LS, I met her at Sam's Steak House. She's a former professional handball player. She has a pretty face and a great smile. Our first date, we talk and talk about things in the USA. I try to explain to her how things like health insurance works, how the legal system works, and so on. Insightful stuff and I have no game, talking to me has been described as talking to a walking copy of wikipedia. However, she does smile at what I say and seems to enjoy the conversation. Here's where I first encounter outright racism in the USA, she asks if it's true we have n******* there. I explain how you can't ever say the word as a Caucasian person there, how I have black friends and coworkers but unfortunately there are very high crime areas in the USA you must avoid, and those areas are generally high percentages of black people. At the end of the date we walk and I notice she is significantly taller than me. Also, she adamantly refuses to wait for the taxi in my apartment, and asks for ~1000 UAH for round trip taxi fare. We agree to a date the next day at the Kiev War museum.
I have photos from this date and all subsequent dates, how should I handle faces?
LS Date 2 - We went to the war museum in Kiev with the statue***. It's quite cold for me outside, but we check out the Hind gunship they have**** We go inside one of the cargo planes, check out the old tanks they have parked, etc. I notice how LS is concerned about my well being and when she notices I'm cold, we rush inside to the indoor portion of this museum. As it turns out, this museum graphically illustrates the horrors of war. They have all sorts of artifacts of death, often placed in spots where museum visitors are tempted to touch them, but the museum is using state of the art security! Babushka is watching! They have older women positioned in each room, where you can clearly see they are there and watching you. I saw this kind of security many places. LS seems fascinated by the artifacts, like going out to a place like this is new for her. We then go to a pasta restaurant, after an hour long cab ride through Kiev traffic, where hand rolled fettucine and salmon for 2 people is under $40 U.S. We say our goodbyes. No physical affection so far, and as usual she gets ~1000 UAH for taxi fare...
SL Date 1 After saying goodbye to LS, I go to meet with SL at a much nicer restaurant. SL is physically about the best anyone can do. She listed her age at 27, she has a pretty face, a slim body, and photos from when she competed in bikini fitness competitions. A hard 9. (a 10 would be SL at age 20) We talk and talk, and she engages in the same casual racism as LS. I was so distracted by her beauty I am having trouble remember what else we talked about. The restaurant bill is around $80 even though I didn't eat anything, and she departs but only asks for 500 UAH in taxi fare.
LS Date 3 We go to Grill de Brazil. It's about $60 for unlimited food for 2 people plus some beers. We talk and talk, and after the data LS wants to know if we can go watch a movie together. At this point I might mention another fact about LS - she's somewhat overweight. By U.S. standards she's not bad, but compared to SL or the average girl I see on the street, LS is fat. I'm not feeling it, and I send her off, since I am almost late to my date with SL...
SL Date 2 - we eat in a really nice restaurant this time. It's maximally romantic, with wine and a great view and everything else. The tab is around $140 US, and again I didn't eat anything. She kisses me afterwards, rather expertly with tongue and everything. So..
SL Date 3 This is it. (I think). So I buy some nice new expensive clothes from the shop in Gulliver's. ($240). I get my hair cut ($15). I go to see SL looking about as good as possible, and she has me meet in a phone store in Gulliver's. She's "just shopping". I...somehow end up buying her a $240 smartphone.
SL/LS Date 4. This is when my lies catch up to me and I run into LS at the same time I have not gotten rid of SL. So they meet, it's a little awkward, but we go to eat at the Sushi place in Gulliver's. Also LS has brought a friend of hers, so now it's 3 girls and just me. I have to admit this feels pretty good though it's apparently just a typical Tuesday in Kiev. LS and her friend leave and it's just me and SL. We make out in the mall lobby but I just can't close the deal.
SL Date 5 - this time at a hyper expensive place, one right next to some government buildings. There went another $120 or so. Again can't close, but she does a little bit of heavy petting. At this point I'm getting frustrated, this woman seems to be a black hole for my money and also I'm not getting any benefits in return...
LS Date 5 - We go out to the pizza restaurant in Gulliver's. As usual, it's far more reasonably priced. Like $30 for 2 people with desert. In the mall.
SL Date 6 - Cafe. She now needs to buy some medicine at the pharmacy. Can I say no to a beautiful woman who isn't having sex with me? I must cringe and admit I paid the bill. Then she loaded her cart up with over $200 of groceries at the store. Paid that also...Then she left me alone, again
LS Date 7 - we go to left bank for lunch. It's about $40 total with cab fare. We are just dating as friends at this point.
SL Date 7 - The penultimate. So SL has been telling this story about how she's getting a new apartment and she needs all new appliances, etc. So on this date she takes me to a construction site. Accompanied by some guy, we climb ~15 flights of stairs to see this apartment she claims is going to be hers. She then has me follow her, not telling me where we are going, until we are at an appliance store. I'm a fool and I got taken...to this point. I tell her off, deny her cab fare, and leave.
*so I still have belly fat but a relatively small amount
**A match exactly at market value would be one where the woman just barely goes through with getting engaged to me, being tempted to switch to other potential partners but never quite hitting the threshold, and then stays married at least 2 years without accusing me of domestic violence to get her Green card early.
***The Ukrainian State Museum of the Great Patriotic War
**** I find out that bulbous dome will probably not stop 7.62 fire. Tom Clancy was exaggerating! It looks like you can readily shoot down a Hind with an AK-47 or RPK, which goes to explain all the problems the Soviets would later have in Afghanistan when their own weapons were used against them...
1. You did NOT visit Ukraine in December 2019; that’s impossible.
2. You think you “encountered outright racism” but you were in Ukraine, not the USA.
3. Any woman who asked me for 1,000 Grivna for taxi but she didn’t put out? I would laugh in her face, tell her to take a bus or hitchhike and tell her to fcuk off. Better yet I would grab her by the wrist and let her know she can earn it, after she takes it up the keister and then deep$&@*#+s and swallows, in that order.
Dude grow a pair of balls! You just wasted what, close to a thousand dollars on LS, who you describe as being slightly overweight with sagging breasts?? No doubt she’s already married or with a long term boyfriend.
Scamming gullible foreigners is a way of life for these women, get out of Kiev, and hire a professional to keep you away from bloodsuckers like the ones you described above.
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That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.
The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks. From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.
There was a time when black men were in vogue in the nightclubs of Moscow. It was kind of an experimental thing for about 2 years.
Sure, en Vogue with the type of women who were desperate enough to give you a BJ in a bathroom stall. :chuckle:
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why would a white guy use an arabic username and talk about girls saying the N word?! Something ain't right...
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The Black Gangsta Ghetto Bros from the Hood I was in the service with after a few beers used to brag "Once white bishes go black they NEVER go back!"
I would apply that Black wisdom to any and all FSU/EE women as well.
No man can make a ho into a housewife... another of their Alpha pearls of wisdom.
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Has the hero of this thread gone or has the forum again debated his doings to death?
Well done?
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Has the hero of this thread gone or has the forum again debated his doings to death?
Well done?
probably gone due to all the useless advice from 55+ old people who aren't dating in Ukraine or Russia. but he signed up on this forum like 8 years ago so that's kinda strange.
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Has the hero of this thread gone or has the forum again debated his doings to death?
Well done?
Send the bloke a PM?
Although, he uses an anti-spam email address so won't get the email, has had an account for many years he never used and appears to be coming out of Ukraine - so make of that what you will.
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No man can make a ho into a housewife... another of their Alpha pearls of wisdom.
But a 'housewife' cannot be a 'ho' occasionally? ))
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I haven't gone anywhere. I won't get an email when you PM, true. Some of you have PMed me and we've had far more productive conversations privately.
For those of you who keep saying "December 2019 is impossible", correct, I meant December 2018. Other than that, I haven't seen much to respond to.
Steveboy can confirm my bonafides, I have a verified account on his sites, which means he's got a photo of my ID and of course selfies that show my racial identity. PM him with further doubts about my ethnicity or legitimacy.
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I haven't gone anywhere. I won't get an email when you PM, true. Some of you have PMed me and we've had far more productive conversations privately.
For those of you who keep saying "December 2019 is impossible", correct, I meant December 2018. Other than that, I haven't seen much to respond to.
Steveboy can confirm my bonafides, I have a verified account on his sites, which means he's got a photo of my ID and of course selfies that show my racial identity. PM him with further doubts about my ethnicity or legitimacy.
I only said it once. As far as your ethnicity I suppose you could be Iranian as they are classified as white and perhaps that’s an Iranian name? Personally cannot speak for others but don’t really care. However I will make one comment: I’ve met plenty of black parents who would prefer their son or daughter to marry another black.
Those who bandy about with charges of “racism” are generally a bunch of stupid crybabies like Moby or “poc” who are upset they cannot travel to a foreign country where they don’t speak the language nor understand and respect the culture and quickly find a slim ivory Barbie doll to be their sex slaves, laugh at their illiterate sense of humor and cook and clean while wearing high heels and a mini dress; all back in the USA — the land of beached whales.
For that matter there are a number of whites in the USA who want minimal contact with blacks. Or vice versa.
Per the Constitution of the United States of America Freedom of Association is supposed to be guaranteed.
IOW if you really are white and you don’t want your children to “mingle” then move to Poland, since the US Constitution is under attack on a daily basis. :laugh:
I would say “good luck” but guys like you who talk about a potential wife like a business transaction usually get their Karma. :chuckle:
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I only said it once. As far as your ethnicity I suppose you could be Iranian as they are classified as white and perhaps that’s an Iranian name? Personally cannot speak for others but don’t really care. However I will make one comment: I’ve met plenty of black parents who would prefer their son or daughter to marry another black.
Those who bandy about with charges of “racism”
What? I just find it amusing that Ukrainians are extremely sophisticated in many ways but seemingly racist, primarily against black people, though one girl has told me they don't like Turks, they don't like Jews, etc.
And like I said, it doesn't affect me directly, it just means some potential cringe moments later if I ended up marrying that particular girl and she said the same words when company is around. That's all. My username doesn't mean shit and you shouldn't read into it. It's literally just a random word.
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I only said it once. As far as your ethnicity I suppose you could be Iranian as they are classified as white and perhaps that’s an Iranian name? Personally cannot speak for others but don’t really care. However I will make one comment: I’ve met plenty of black parents who would prefer their son or daughter to marry another black.
Those who bandy about with charges of “racism”
What? I just find it amusing that Ukrainians are extremely sophisticated in many ways but seemingly racist, primarily against black people, though one girl has told me they don't like Turks, they don't like Jews, etc.
And like I said, it doesn't affect me directly, it just means some potential cringe moments later if I ended up marrying that particular girl and she said the same words when company is around. That's all. My username doesn't mean shit and you shouldn't read into it. It's literally just a random word.
Ukrainians are wary of foreigners. Reading a bit of the history of 'The Borderlands' might explain this to you.
With the exception of Odessa where there is a minority of African descent people and a now small Jewish community, Jewish people are not common in every day life. Odessa once had a vibrant Jewish community. Before in the Soviet era they were marginalized. It should be noted the current Prime Minister and a number of members of the senior cabinet are Jewish.
In the West of Ukraine Rivne southwards there is a small Protestant 'Bible Belt'.
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Ukrainians are wary of foreigners. Reading a bit of the history of 'The Borderlands' might explain this to you.
With the exception of Odessa where there is a minority of African descent people and a now small Jewish community, Jewish people are not common in every day life. Odessa once had a vibrant Jewish community. Before in the Soviet era they were marginalized. It should be noted the current Prime Minister and a number of members of the senior cabinet are Jewish.
In the West of Ukraine Rivne southwards there is a small Protestant 'Bible Belt'.
That's very interesting to me. When Eastern European people began to immigrate in significant numbers to my part of the US years ago it seemed that they were almost all Protestants of the "Pentecostal" variety.
My Belarussian gf of 5 years ago, who already had a green card when I met her, was an atheist. I was surprised by this. She felt that prostetants got unfair religious persecution refugee type visas, where as she got a work visa which was much more difficult. Then when I visited Ukraine it seemed that most people I would meet were either Orthodox, agnostic or atheist. Where were the protestants? I guess they are either all in the US by now or where Arie said. Thanks for adding this piece to the puzzle!
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Ukrainians are wary of foreigners. Reading a bit of the history of 'The Borderlands' might explain this to you.
With the exception of Odessa where there is a minority of African descent people and a now small Jewish community, Jewish people are not common in every day life. Odessa once had a vibrant Jewish community. Before in the Soviet era they were marginalized. It should be noted the current Prime Minister and a number of members of the senior cabinet are Jewish.
In the West of Ukraine Rivne southwards there is a small Protestant 'Bible Belt'.
That's very interesting to me. When Eastern European people began to immigrate in significant numbers to my part of the US years ago it seemed that they were almost all Protestants of the "Pentecostal" variety.
My Belarussian gf of 5 years ago, who already had a green card when I met her, was an atheist. I was surprised by this. She felt that prostetants got unfair religious persecution refugee type visas, where as she got a work visa which was much more difficult. Then when I visited Ukraine it seemed that most people I would meet were either Orthodox, agnostic or atheist. Where were the protestants? I guess they are either all in the US by now or where Arie said. Thanks for adding this piece to the puzzle!
There’s a Baptist Church in Kerch, or at least there was...who knows what happened to it and the congregation. I say this because for the informed people who read a lot of different sources, it’s well known that Protestant Churches in Donbas were shuttered and their Pastors and Congregations robbed by “separatists”.
There’s a Baptist Church in Odessa and there are SDA’s in Kiev. Who you happened to meet is a microcosm of who is in Ukraine. I’m quite certain that what Av wrote is true and it’s probably growing. People do like Liberty and that includes religious liberty. Oh and I’ve seen two profiles which indicated Christian Scientist. :coffeeread:
PS...famous magician David Copperfield is Jewish and his family were from Odessa.
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I only said it once. As far as your ethnicity I suppose you could be Iranian as they are classified as white and perhaps that’s an Iranian name? Personally cannot speak for others but don’t really care. However I will make one comment: I’ve met plenty of black parents who would prefer their son or daughter to marry another black.
Those who bandy about with charges of “racism”
What? I just find it amusing that Ukrainians are extremely sophisticated in many ways but seemingly racist, primarily against black people, though one girl has told me they don't like Turks, they don't like Jews, etc.
And like I said, it doesn't affect me directly, it just means some potential cringe moments later if I ended up marrying that particular girl and she said the same words when company is around. That's all. My username doesn't mean shit and you shouldn't read into it. It's literally just a random word.
Aha. Proving once and for all you should probably leave the “former Soviet” and never go back. You’re out of your league.
As Jews like to complain about Poles they teach their children to be highly suspicious and even downright hateful towards them from the moment they’re drinking milk from their mothers teat.
Do you really believe that Ukrainian women will behave differently, or more importantly they will give a rats ass about the opinions of your precious company?
Look here where they still have arranged marriages:
https://www.wherewomenchaseyou.com/top-20-hottest-indian-women/
Okay honestly I’m being a bit harsh there are always exceptions and you might find a very modern progressive woman who agrees with your outlook completely.
Most of us don’t like to see hardworking guys get fleeced. Steveboy seems like a total straight shooter, why not head over to St. Petersburg for an in person meeting and evaluation?
I hear there are tons of beautiful women in Russia and the stability there likely means a woman who will go out with you is genuinely interested in you.
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Someone feels your pain “Habeed”! :ROFL:
And we have nothing but respect for the accomplishments of American, European, and Australian women. We love all women. But Western women are a lot of work. And for a lot of Western men, the constant rejection that they face in their own countries is just brutal. It kills their confidence. And a lack of confidence, in turn, kills their attractiveness to women. Which leads to less confidence. It’s a vicious cycle.
You can be an intelligent, successful American man. You can be fit and generally happy with your life, but that does not mean you will be able to get a date on a Saturday night. Not if you are a veteran or disabled or short or a little heavy. And if you don’t live in a big city forget it.
And....
Breathtaking Russian women are unappreciated in Russia
Russian women are the gold standard of beauty and the most beautiful mail order brides, bar none. The part I found so hard to believe, before I went there and saw it for my own eyes…is that the very same lady that turns your head so hard, you get whiplash…is not getting any attention back in Russia because there are so many like that in her home country. She isn’t even considered special there!
You can’t fathom it, sitting at home, staring at her on the screen right now, but go to Russia and if you think I am one pebble off of giving you the stone cold truth, I will buy you Vodka until you pass out.
https://www.wherewomenchaseyou.com/russian-brides/
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Ukrainians are wary of foreigners. Reading a bit of the history of 'The Borderlands' might explain this to you.
Not really. But many foreign men behave like pigs in Ukraine, so they are warier of them, and often, with good reason.
With the exception of Odessa where there is a minority of African descent people and a now small Jewish community, Jewish people are not common in every day life. Odessa once had a vibrant Jewish community. Before in the Soviet era they were marginalized. It should be noted the current Prime Minister and a number of members of the senior cabinet are Jewish.
Hmm, again I will disagree with you.
In Tsarist Russia, Jews were prohibited, for the most part, from settling in Russia. They could, however, live in the Pale of Settlement, which included all of Ukraine. In 19th century Ukraine (Russian Empire), Jews owned some of the largest factories and businesses in Ukraine. It surprised me to learn this, because typically, grants for large enterprises were issued by the Tsar. Nevertheless, it's true.
Ukraine today has the fourth largest Jewish community in Europe, and the largest Jewish centre (funded by Bogolubov and Kolomoisky) in the world.
Until about 1961, Jews dominated in all spheres of political and "prestigious" life in Ukraine, other than the police (who were about half Jewish, half Russian). They were party officials, teachers, physicians, operated all the stores, etc. That changed almost entirely under Khrushchev. Then when Jews were given the right to emigrate, they were locked out of any position of power or prestige in Ukraine. That was not the case in Russia, because there were far, far more Jews in Ukraine. The order to lock them out of these positions, whether they chose to emigrate or not, emanated from Moscow.
Odesa had a huge Jewish population, second only to its ethnically Russian population, in the 19th and early 20th centuries. By 1939, Jews were the predominant ethnic group in Odesa, and the "flavour" of the city was very influenced by its Jewish population.
In the West of Ukraine Rivne southwards there is a small Protestant 'Bible Belt'.
I know that there were Baptist communities around Kiev in Soviet times, because my husband worked with some of them. They lived in villages, which is probably how they managed to survive.
In Tsarist times, a good deal of both Volyn' and Southern Ukraine were populated by ethnic Germans. Many of them were Baptists, many, Lutherans, some, Pentecosts, and they had their own schools and churches. A lot of Mennonites and Hutterites emigrated from these regions of Ukraine before WWII.
Rivne region has a population that is 91% Orthodox, but it does have the highest level of Protestants in Ukraine, at about 5%. Most of those are either Baptists or Pentecosts. A lot of Ukrainian Baptists were allowed to emigrate, due to an agreement brokered by Ronald Reagan.
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Not really. But many foreign men behave like pigs in Ukraine...
I believe the word you were fumbling around for, was some.
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I only said it once. As far as your ethnicity I suppose you could be Iranian as they are classified as white and perhaps that’s an Iranian name? Personally cannot speak for others but don’t really care. However I will make one comment: I’ve met plenty of black parents who would prefer their son or daughter to marry another black.
Those who bandy about with charges of “racism”
What? I just find it amusing that Ukrainians are extremely sophisticated in many ways but seemingly racist, primarily against black people, though one girl has told me they don't like Turks, they don't like Jews, etc.
And like I said, it doesn't affect me directly, it just means some potential cringe moments later if I ended up marrying that particular girl and she said the same words when company is around. That's all. My username doesn't mean shit and you shouldn't read into it. It's literally just a random word.
To be fair, I think you're seriously underestimating these ladies.
First of all, it's unlikely any woman would refer to a black person in your company as a 'nigger', unless she was extremely stupid or had terrible English skills and somehow thought this word was acceptable.
Secondly, I'm guessing any Ukrainian lady who has never travelled to the US and has pigeon English, may have heard this word repeatedly on American music TV or similar. It was perhaps a clumsy way of asking a valid question but totally not understanding the seriousness of the word and using it to 'impress'.
In Zambia, my friend and I often had Mzungu shouted at us. I didn't think this was racist and he wasn't offended when they tried to pet his ginger hair. We were a minority and many people had little contact with whites.
It sounds like you're in the 'I'm offended and everyone is racist' club.
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Not really. But many foreign men behave like pigs in Ukraine...
I believe the word you were fumbling around for, was some.
This may sound ripe coming from me however I do reckon the lady is fairly accurate in her assessment.
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I only said it once. As far as your ethnicity I suppose you could be Iranian as they are classified as white and perhaps that’s an Iranian name? Personally cannot speak for others but don’t really care. However I will make one comment: I’ve met plenty of black parents who would prefer their son or daughter to marry another black.
Those who bandy about with charges of “racism”
What? I just find it amusing that Ukrainians are extremely sophisticated in many ways but seemingly racist, primarily against black people, though one girl has told me they don't like Turks, they don't like Jews, etc.
And like I said, it doesn't affect me directly, it just means some potential cringe moments later if I ended up marrying that particular girl and she said the same words when company is around. That's all. My username doesn't mean shit and you shouldn't read into it. It's literally just a random word.
To be fair, I think you're seriously underestimating these ladies.
First of all, it's unlikely any woman would refer to a black person in your company as a 'nigger', unless she was extremely stupid or had terrible English skills and somehow thought this word was acceptable.
Secondly, I'm guessing any Ukrainian lady who has never travelled to the US and has pigeon English, may have heard this word repeatedly on American music TV or similar. It was perhaps a clumsy way of asking a valid question but totally not understanding the seriousness of the word and using it to 'impress'.
In Zambia, my friend and I often had Mzungu shouted at us. I didn't think this was racist and he wasn't offended when they tried to pet his ginger hair. We were a minority and many people had little contact with whites.
It sounds like you're in the 'I'm offended and everyone is racist' club.
Moby’s got some company now. :laugh:
Think I’ll just put this little gem right here.
The overwhelming difference in coverage from the fake news is likely because the incident doesn’t fit into their contrived “white supremacy” narrative, as the suspected perpetrator of the heinous act is a black man in an African-American community.
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/alabama-high-school-mass-shooting-with-10-victims-largely-ignored-by-fake-news-media/
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Not really. But many foreign men behave like pigs in Ukraine...
I believe the word you were fumbling around for, was some.
I don't "fumble" for words.
Had I intended to say "some", I would have posted "some".
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Halo what is your problem with guys going to Ukraine to find a wife or have some fun? You ain't even Ukrainian.
Take up the cause of Thai or Filipino girls or do you not care about them. Lots of sex tourists in Bangkok and Manila but they are off your radar huh. ???
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Halo what is your problem with guys going to Ukraine to find a wife or have some fun? You ain't even Ukrainian.
Take up the cause of Thai or Filipino girls or do you not care about them. Lots of sex tourists in Bangkok and Manila but they are off your radar huh. ???
Much of a muchness isn’t it? Poor slim women have western blokes chasing them anywhere. Her experience and expertise is on Ukraine and near regions, so it’s not entirely surprising that is the region that she feels most able to discuss.
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Not really. But many foreign men behave like pigs in Ukraine...
I believe the word you were fumbling around for, was some.
From what we historically see, I would go with ‘most’ personally. ‘Many’ is probably quite kind.
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Most of us don’t like to see hardworking guys get fleeced. Steveboy seems like a total straight shooter, why not head over to St. Petersburg for an in person meeting and evaluation?
I hear there are tons of beautiful women in Russia and the stability there likely means a woman who will go out with you is genuinely interested in you.
This is sound advice and something like what I was thinking of trying next. I have no particular preference for Ukraine. Steveboy offers this?
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Much of a muchness isn’t it? Poor slim women have western blokes chasing them anywhere. Her experience and expertise is on Ukraine and near regions, so it’s not entirely surprising that is the region that she feels most able to discuss.
There's a lot of poor slim Asian and African women too. She lives in Canada not Ukraine. My Russian is better than her's and that ain't saying much.
It's not like she's gonna stop any guy from going to the Ukraine to have sex.
If it were black or Asian women being exploited she wouldn't care one bit I bet.
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This is sound advice and something like what I was thinking of trying next. I have no particular preference for Ukraine. Steveboy offers this?
I think Steveboy lives in St Petersburg so maybe for a fee he will be your personal guide for a day. As I told you, get a Russian visa and head over. Americans can get a 3 year tourists visa, plenty of time to find a girl.
Moscow the ladies are cool and enough of them speak good English. Tons of expats there to meet up with and plug into a social scene.
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As far as I know Steve is not a professional wingman or relationship consultant. The services of his business are posted on his network of dating sites.
I doubt that you'd be able to afford to pay him enough to tempt him away from his growing business.
There used to be guys in SPb who offered professional wingman services, last I knew only one guy I knew who used to do a little of that remained there. I can't find a trace of him now though. He was moving into real estate stuff though, which likely explains it.
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Most of us don’t like to see hardworking guys get fleeced. Steveboy seems like a total straight shooter, why not head over to St. Petersburg for an in person meeting and evaluation?
I hear there are tons of beautiful women in Russia and the stability there likely means a woman who will go out with you is genuinely interested in you.
This is sound advice and something like what I was thinking of trying next. I have no particular preference for Ukraine. Steveboy offers this?
Well he once met Moby IIRC and Moby is a tool.
You actually seem highly intelligent, why not send Steve a PM (private message) and ask him directly if he would consider a quick meeting over a tea or beer?
I know very well Steve would meetup with me, in a kickboxing ring to get his backside kicked! :laugh:
He may only have time to exchange emails, it’s really up to him.
(I sent you a quick pm)
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Halo what is your problem with guys going to Ukraine to find a wife or have some fun? You ain't even Ukrainian.
Take up the cause of Thai or Filipino girls or do you not care about them. Lots of sex tourists in Bangkok and Manila but they are off your radar huh. ???
I am ethnically Ukrainian. I speak Ukrainian fluently. I lived there for over half a decade. As Manny noted, were I Thai or Filipino, I would be posting about them.
I have personally witnessed too many destroyed lives (both WM who have married bad UW, and UW who married bad WM) to view this process as "normal". This typically occurs when a WM marries a "body" rather than a person, and a UW is looking for an escape and a life of comfort at the expense of a WM, rather than a man she loves. The majority of WM who have posted on forums similar to this one are divorced from their FSUW. I think British men have a higher success rate for long lasting marriages than do American men. There are men here married to UW who I have nothing but respect for, such as Chris, DS, and Av (although his wife isn't Ukrainian).
I bear no ill will to the OP. However, he gets no sympathy for whinging about dating women to whom he was not attracted, when he actively chose those women.
Much of a muchness isn’t it? Poor slim women have western blokes chasing them anywhere.
True, but isn't it interesting that WM go to poverty stricken countries to do their "chasing"? They no longer go to Russia, as it's no longer "poor". They don't go to Poland, or Hungary, or the Czech Republic. That's the issue I have, rather than men seeking slender women.
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Well you ain't stopping all the sex tourists going to Ukraine.
There's plenty of expats in Russia, thing is they go there for work. Oil and gas. I met tons who settled in Russia, have businesses and Russian wives, kids.
No one's going to Ukraine to work.
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Aha. Proving once and for all you should probably leave the “former Soviet” and never go back. You’re out of your league.
Confederate, I try to avoid direct confrontation on my own behalf, but do you really think this sort of statement is helpful? Do you think he will abide by your advice? I think it's pretty silly to say things like "Proving once and for all".
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Aha. Proving once and for all you should probably leave the “former Soviet” and never go back. You’re out of your league.
Confederate, I try to avoid direct confrontation on my own behalf, but do you really think this sort of statement is helpful? Do you think he will abide by your advice? I think it's pretty silly to say things like "Proving once and for all".
Have you gone to see a professional counselor yet? Have you, with the assistance of a counselor determined why you like to go over there and screw up women’s lives?
For the most part this forum is part entertainment and part serious business. Each poster generally gives an opinion to the OP.
I did that, Habeed picked the part of my opinion he liked and responded, I gave him an honest answer and sent him a PM with other information.
I really don’t care about your opinions of my posts. OTOH will suggest that you read Halo’s post directly above; she’s spot on.
Andrew also mentioned you specifically re how you scammed time and opportunity away from a young woman it turned out you had no business messing with.
Behave like a man and mind your own business. I once rooted for you but not any more. Let Habeed speak for Habeed. Thx.
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Much of a muchness isn’t it? Poor slim women have western blokes chasing them anywhere.
True, but isn't it interesting that WM go to poverty stricken countries to do their "chasing"? They no longer go to Russia, as it's no longer "poor". They don't go to Poland, or Hungary, or the Czech Republic. That's the issue I have, rather than men seeking slender women.
Well, I suppose women from more developed or affluent nations are less likely to consider relocation and marriage with an older foreigner as they are more likely to have a settled life and suitable local men. And women from more developed or affluent nations are more likely to be overweight. Its a fine line between economic exploitation and the forces of normal supply and demand at work. Ukraine is probably the last place you will find poor white women in any great quantity. For blokes who like Asians or Hispanics, they have many more countries they can comb for women even poorer.
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For blokes who like Asians or Hispanics, they have many more countries they can comb for women even poorer.
Russia has more Asiatic ladies from some stans and Southern / Eastern Siberia ?
IF that is you 'bag' ..there's plenty of Russia ladies with a smattering of such looks ... a hang over from the Golden Horde ..
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Much of a muchness isn’t it? Poor slim women have western blokes chasing them anywhere.
True, but isn't it interesting that WM go to poverty stricken countries to do their "chasing"? They no longer go to Russia, as it's no longer "poor". They don't go to Poland, or Hungary, or the Czech Republic. That's the issue I have, rather than men seeking slender women.
Well, I suppose women from more developed or affluent nations are less likely to consider relocation and marriage with an older foreigner as they are more likely to have a settled life and suitable local men. And women from more developed or affluent nations are more likely to be overweight. Its a fine line between economic exploitation and the forces of normal supply and demand at work. Ukraine is probably the last place you will find poor white women in any great quantity. For blokes who like Asians or Hispanics, they have many more countries they can comb for women even poorer.
I think internet dating, when it comes to ladies from the Baltics or Poland, doesn't have the same ring to it. Yes its unlikely that many of these ladies are actively seeking a relationship abroad because lets face it, many of them who would be interested are already working abroad.
The eastern European feminine look is still something British guys go for though. Look no further than where I live. The amount of guys who have Polish or Latvian girls is incredible. The fat Scottish tarts seen wandering pubs on a Saturday night, acting like their shit don't stink, tend to be pretty bitchy and jealous when it comes to their skinnier, more attractive competition.
Closely followed by the Polish meat head watching his sisters, getting scooped up by the Scottish blokes. Too many Tyskie's and its a recipe for disaster!!
:biggrin:
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Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania..they are all part of the EU so they can go to any of the EU countries to work. Saw tons of girls from those countries in London. many are in the tourism industry, hotels, restaurants. Ukraine isn't so the girls can't go. The Russians in London are rich oligarchs. :chuckle:
Hungarian girls are quite hot too ;D
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For blokes who like Asians or Hispanics, they have many more countries they can comb for women even poorer.
Russia has more Asiatic ladies from some stans and Southern / Eastern Siberia ?
IF that is you 'bag' ..there's plenty of Russia ladies with a smattering of such looks ... a hang over from the Golden Horde ..
You're right in the respect that there are plenty of nice looking European and Asiatic women in Kazakhstan and other FSU stans, but many of them come with their own (usually Muslim) family complications. Uzbekistan, a small number of men do OK in with European Russian women, very few go to Georgia, Turkmenistan or Kyrgyzstan for wives. When I mentioned Asia, I was thinking not so much as FSU Asia, but China (which is a big market now), the Philippines, Thailand and to a lesser extent Cambodia and Vietnam.
For reasons Halo recently touched upon, nobody is exporting many women from South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan, Hong Kong or Taiwan.
In terms of Hispanics/Latin American women, I'm surprised we don't hear more about those women in the MOB context. Colombia I know agencies do tours to, but I'm less informed about places like Mexico, Venezuela, Cuba, Panama, etc., which one assumes is full of impecunious women who may consider Hank from Idaho as a husband.
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In places where the people don't have hungry bellies and are thin because they go to the gym, rather than under-eating, one can find pleasant companionship, but one needs to be personable and able to provide more for the self-actualisation part of the triangle of needs than for the safety and physiological needs. That's a much better way to build a long term relationship anyway.
Basically, one has to be a better person!
(https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/image-article_inline_full_caption/public/field_blog_entry_images/2017-09/maslowhh.png?itok=rxTI5PmX)
Image from: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201212/our-hierarchy-needs
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is a very useful idea to understand how needs can flow within a relationship, but I don't think it is something that is often discussed in those terms, probably because, in the west at least, we take for granted that our partners already have the bottom levels sorted.
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Well you ain't stopping all the sex tourists going to Ukraine.
I don't recall every stating I was.
In terms of the OP, I was explaining why UW don't find it a "sin" to scam foreign men.
There's plenty of expats in Russia, thing is they go there for work. Oil and gas. I met tons who settled in Russia, have businesses and Russian wives, kids.
Wow! Thanks for that enlightening statement. /s
No one's going to Ukraine to work.
Wrong. There are foreigners working in Ukraine, and there are some foreigners brave/foolhardy enough to start businesses in Ukraine. However, the market is different. Ukraine is an IT and R & D investment hub, and a significant number of foreign companies employ Ukrainians to carry out IT or carry on R & D (mostly in IT related fields). Ukrainians have the expertise for these functions, and can be hired at half or less the price they'd earn stateside.
Most foreign oil and gas workers in Russia don't live there. They work for say, 30 days or 60 days on, 20 days or more off. It is considered a "hardship" location.
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In terms of Hispanics/Latin American women, I'm surprised we don't hear more about those women in the MOB context. Colombia I know agencies do tours to, but I'm less informed about places like Mexico, Venezuela, Cuba, Panama, etc., which one assumes is full of impecunious women who may consider Hank from Idaho as a husband.
Venezuela is, in general, not a safe place to travel. In Cuba, the government controls exit visas, so leaving the country is not a given, or at best, takes years. As you know, I speak from personal experience on this, vis a vis the USSR.
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As for Ukraine girls being scammers it is the promiss of easy money setup by ads wanting translators etc. All lousy jobs costing their souls.
Dating does not exist as in western countries where you get time to get to choose between the ones you are interested in. No you pick one girl or not.
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Most foreign oil and gas workers in Russia don't live there. They work for say, 30 days or 60 days on, 20 days or more off. It is considered a "hardship" location.
I don't mean just the labour workers but the executives in Moscow. Who are pulling in big bucks to live there. They may relocate after but I personally met some who have been there a decade or more.
You keep telling guys to stop going to Ukraine for girls. Do you think they actually listen to you?
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Much of a muchness isn’t it? Poor slim women have western blokes chasing them anywhere.
True, but isn't it interesting that WM go to poverty stricken countries to do their "chasing"? They no longer go to Russia, as it's no longer "poor". They don't go to Poland, or Hungary, or the Czech Republic. That's the issue I have, rather than men seeking slender women.
Well, I suppose women from more developed or affluent nations are less likely to consider relocation and marriage with an older foreigner as they are more likely to have a settled life and suitable local men. And women from more developed or affluent nations are more likely to be overweight. Its a fine line between economic exploitation and the forces of normal supply and demand at work. Ukraine is probably the last place you will find poor white women in any great quantity. For blokes who like Asians or Hispanics, they have many more countries they can comb for women even poorer.
I still think there's a premium on attractive white girls from men all over the planet. We all have our own ideas on what's attractive but guys from Asia, Africa and the Middle East love their white girls. Whether they can date them is another thing.
IMO this is what makes 'Eastern Europe' a lucrative market. It's not all about us old, fat westerners chasing unrealistic dreams.
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Rosco, spot on. Within many Asian cultures, there's a preference for whiteness. One might argue the reasons for it or the unhealthiness, or otherwise of it, but it is real.
Oddly enough, it means that in places like Thailand, the poor, sallow-skinned women seem to find favour with sex tourists from the West as a representation of the attraction of 'different'. While lighter-skinned women are prized by local guys and the Japanese sex tourists.
A few years ago, a friend of mine was offered a job as trainer and 'mama' in a planned strip club. The place was to be the second in a planned expansion. The first was/is stocked entirely with Russian, Ukrainian and other Eastern European girls. The place was very upmarket and very spendy. The clientele was very largely Japanese with some rich locals. Westerners preferred the northen girls with their very different appearance.
Sadly for both of us, the economic recession took hold and the project was shelved.
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Well you ain't stopping all the sex tourists going to Ukraine.
There's plenty of expats in Russia, thing is they go there for work. Oil and gas. I met tons who settled in Russia, have businesses and Russian wives, kids.
No one's going to Ukraine to work.
'Sting (Guile')
You're 'at it', again with your generalisations
I know a few guys who combine their visits to UA with work .. *I* did until 2014.
I also know other UK guys married ( in addition to the one's Halo mentioned ) - for a long time ...10 years plus to UA women ..some of 'em have / had homes in UA in particular Crimea ..
MANY ex-pats left Russia in 2014/5/6 due to the downturn and not nearly so many returned ..
A lot of 'em now work abroad - leaving their loved ones in RU
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I also know other UK guys married ( in addition to the one's Halo mentioned ) - for a long time ...10 years plus to UA women ..some of 'em have / had homes in UA in particular Crimea ..
MANY ex-pats left Russia in 2014/5/6 due to the downturn and not nearly so many returned ..
A lot of 'em now work abroad - leaving their loved ones in RU
nah dude I know of these people personally, met them in Russia. Unlike you who just has "friends of friends" hearsay.
Alot left when the ruble collapsed. they tended to be young and single. Those who stayed usually had families or spouses and rode it out. Or they both returned to the guy's home country.
Crimea is part of Russia not Ukraine now
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I know a few guys who combine their visits to UA with work .. *I* did until 2014.
I also know other UK guys married ( in addition to the one's Halo mentioned ) - for a long time ...10 years plus to UA women ..some of 'em have / had homes in UA in particular Crimea ..
That was 5 years ago. I'm talking now as in present day. Salaries in Russia and Moscow specifically are way higher. No one in my professional circle would even bother going to Ukraine. it pays too little.
Those UK guys are probably living off of pensions and assets from their work in the UK.
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Most foreign oil and gas workers in Russia don't live there. They work for say, 30 days or 60 days on, 20 days or more off. It is considered a "hardship" location.
I don't mean just the labour workers but the executives in Moscow. Who are pulling in big bucks to live there. They may relocate after but I personally met some who have been there a decade or more.
There are also foreign executives in Kiev, albeit not as many.
You keep telling guys to stop going to Ukraine for girls. Do you think they actually listen to you?
I don't "keep telling guys to stop going to Ukraine for girls." I tell them don't moan about not finding a genuine woman or about being scammed. The latter is viewed as completely acceptable there.
I still think there's a premium on attractive white girls from men all over the planet. We all have our own ideas on what's attractive but guys from Asia, Africa and the Middle East love their white girls. Whether they can date them is another thing.
IMO this is what makes 'Eastern Europe' a lucrative market. It's not all about us old, fat westerners chasing unrealistic dreams.
"Eastern Europe" is not a lucrative market. There aren't hordes of men going to Bulgaria, or Hungary, or Czech Republic, or Slovakia, or Romania, or Poland chasing women. They aren't even going to Russia, or Estonia, or Latvia, or Lithuania much now.
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"Eastern Europe" is not a lucrative market. There aren't hordes of men going to Bulgaria, or Hungary, or Czech Republic, or Slovakia, or Romania, or Poland chasing women. They aren't even going to Russia, or Estonia, or Latvia, or Lithuania much now.
I'm fairly positive you've got yourself all confused here. I never said men flocked to Bulgaria or Romania for wives. Eastern Europe is a lucrative market, at least in terms of how 'valuable' these ladies are to foreign men. Strip clubs & escorts the world over have Latvian, Ukrainian & Russian girls everywhere because its what 'men' want. Many men dream of having a slavic partner, more so than say and Indian or African lady.
Perhaps you just misunderstood my post.
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I'm fairly positive you've got yourself all confused here. I never said men flocked to Bulgaria or Romania for wives.
I never posted you did. Quite the opposite, actually.
Eastern Europe is a lucrative market, at least in terms of how 'valuable' these ladies are to foreign men. Strip clubs & escorts the world over have Latvian, Ukrainian & Russian girls everywhere because its what 'men' want. Many men dream of having a slavic partner, more so than say and Indian or African lady.
A significant number of those women are trafficked. That occurs because they are coming from "poor" countries and are vulnerable to exploitation.
I don't think men really care where beautiful women come from, TBH. I never saw as many beautiful women, and men, as I did in Paris, but only early in the morning, when they were taking the metro to work.
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That was 5 years ago. I'm talking now as in present day. Salaries in Russia and Moscow specifically are way higher. No one in my professional circle would even bother going to Ukraine. it pays too little
You claim to teach Oligarchs' kids .. Are you suggesting Oligarchs' are 'poorer' in Ukraine? . Chances are the wealthier ones have their kids educated in the West..
Those UK guys are probably living off of pensions and assets from their work in the UK.
No... As I said..if they were salaried, they now work elsewhere to bring in the bacon...
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You claim to teach Oligarchs' kids .. Are you suggesting Oligarchs' are 'poorer' in Ukraine? . Chances are the wealthier ones have their kids educated in the West..
No... As I said..if they were salaried, they now work elsewhere to bring in the bacon...
There are far fewer oligarchs and rich people in Ukraine than in Russia. Almost all the jobs I see are in Russia. The odd one in Kiev. These are children, not university students. The families want to live in Russia.
Some may elect to send their kid to Oxford or Cambridge but usually the entire family will move there.
No one I know in Russia has the guy working elsewhere in another country while the wife and kids live there. They would all go abroad. You really don't know anything about the inner workings of the elite in Russia.
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I know people aren't rational but how do Russian oligarchs change anything? Say you are hitting the dating market as a middle aged American making low six figures. All the young women in Moscow are going to tell you they aren't interested because they are holding out for a rich oligarch? How many oligarchs are there in the entire city? 1k? 10k? 100k? If there is 500k women and 100k oligarchs and each one has 2 girls each that still leaves 300k unmatched. And I don't think there are that many, oligarchs aren't really about sharing wealth....
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Westerners use the term 'oligarch' to describe any Russian able to afford a big merc.
There's very, very, few of them -by definition.
Women who want to be sponsored tend to be aspirational sorts. It can be better to hold off on an inferior pick in order to be available for a better pick. Of course, that leads to disappointment.
As a 'visitor' you are most unlikely to ever be able to attract the women that you probably fantasize about. You ain't rich enough and you ain't present enough. Worse yet, you have no way to understand the market, its dynamics and so, as with most purchases, you'll get a bad deal.
Next, there are very few women who actually are sponsored, or who want to be.
So, as with most relatively efficient markets, most of the demand is met by available supply with a relatively small surplus. Not many left over for you!
Be realistic, if you can't attract women that you want, examine yourself. Put it this way, women who want to have a sponsor will reject you in just the same way, and for just the same reasons as the other women who reject you.
This is a 'man in the mirror' issue. Not a woman issue.
Here's another secret:
Everything I have ever seen tells me that men who sponsor women have no problem finding women. Money makes many matters simpler, opens doors, gives convenience. Sponsorship is not for a bloke who can't get himself female companionship. Money might be an enabler, but not much more.
Look at it this way, There's you, find it hard to attract women. So you think 'hmmm... let me throw some money at the problem and that'll be a solution.'
The woman, on the other hand, is thinking, 'hmmm... I will enter into an arrangement with a bloke I might not normally do so because he has money AND he can be a mentor AND he can help me with life AND if he wasn't so old I'd shag him anyway.'
But if you're the kind of bloke who women don't feel attracted to at all, then the money isn't going to do the job. The money will not provide the necessary lubrication. Plus you probably can't help with any of the other stuff either! Some young women are happy to be with older, richer, more powerful, guys for little more than access to him.
How do I know that? From first-hand experience.
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I know people aren't rational but how do Russian oligarchs change anything?
Habeed, you are the right the oligarchs don't change a thing. Your thread veered into a tangent because the member Moby chose to question my experience with real oligarchs.
I would say a net worth over $10 million would classify someone as ultra rich in Russia. Oligarchs would $500 million+, which I have worked with.
If you have a 6 figure salary then get a Russian visa and spend 2 months in Moscow in the summer. Rent an apartment in the centre of the city, hit every nightclub and hotspot flashing your $ and you'll find a new girl for every day of the week.
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I know people aren't rational but how do Russian oligarchs change anything?
Habeed, you are the right the oligarchs don't change a thing. Your thread veered into a tangent because the member Moby chose to question my experience with real oligarchs.
I would say a net worth over $10 million would classify someone as ultra rich in Russia. Oligarchs would $500 million+, which I have worked with.
If you have a 6 figure salary then get a Russian visa and spend 2 months in Moscow in the summer. Rent an apartment in the centre of the city, hit every nightclub and hotspot flashing your $ and you'll find a new girl for every day of the week.
Yeah this is what I would expect. In the USA, I've used the obvious website to find the equivalent girls looking for sponsorship. These are women under 25, with great legs. That's only something like 20% of all the women in that age range. (everyone else is thick, overweight, or obese). And in the USA, there are so many men who are millionaires, who drive BMWs, who have great manager and partner roles in major firms. Thousands and thousands of men, in every major city, dwarfing (in income) almost every man in Moscow.
Yet I don't drive a BMW, and I only make low 6 figures, and I've had absolutely no trouble finding women willing to accept sponsorship from me. Sure, many of them will say no, but more say yes than I can possibly meet. (and I have met them and had 6+ month long relationships with the ones I liked)
So I logically said : well, even somewhere like Moscow, where the richest of Russia live, the median household income is 23k a year (versus 60k in the USA). And basically all the women under 25 have great legs.
So yes, andrewfi's hypothesis could absolutely be correct. There are cultural and language barriers that don't show up in this simple math based analysis. I have not yet visited Moscow much less tried this concept. But, from the numbers, it seems like the "market rate" for sponsorship should be lower in Moscow than in any major city inside the USA.
Andrewfi: so what do you think the "market rate" is? In the USA, for a woman under 25/great legs, it ends up being about $600-$1000 a week, for 2-3 meetings. What's the rate in Moscow?
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I have no idea, but I can suggest that the more you lead with money, and not a lot of it at that! The more it will cost you.
What you seem to be talking about is simple prostitution where you are a regular john.
Are you really that messed up that all you can envisage, the best that you think you can hope for is a 'relationship' where you pay for a woman's time? Where you are just a bloke she has to shag to pay for her next pair of pretty shoes?
Is that all you're worth?
This stuff is fun as part of a 'balanced diet' of sex and relationship, but you are stooping very, very, low if you think that's all you can manage.
I feel sorry for you!
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Habeed is there a reason you want a FSU women? They are more physically attractive than American women in general but other than that is there something else.
The language barrier is a huge thing and alot of Russian women (not all) will be offended that you would even propose sponsorship. They want to find real love like anyone. The only women you're gonna get with this approach are pro daters who just want your money.
Don't lead with your wallet. It takes a lot more effort but you will find real women this way.
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Hi everyone, I joined this site 5 years ago, asked some questions, and then proceeded to visit Ukraine, specifically Kiev and Odesa. Fell in love with the country and its women and have returned for 3 months each summer since that initial visit in spring 2015. This thread caught my attention, so I skimmed it. Some comments:
Habeed doesn't know what he is doing, but then neither did I initially. He might be on the right track with the idea of sponsorship. I won't go into the details of how to find girls open to sponsoring, but it isn't difficult.
Within a week of arrival in Kiev in 2015, I had a pretty 19yo (7/10 objectively, but worth more to me because of her personality) hitting on me at some English conversation group. I mentioned I was trying to learn Russian so she came and sat next to me, pushed her tiny body against me, offered me her phone number so we could arrange meetings to teach each other English and Russian respectively, etc. I had been thinking I would be lucky to get a well-preserved woman in her 40's (I was 54 then) so attention from this pretty 19yo completely freaked me out. I'm ashamed to admit I never called her, never returned to the conversation group, even though she was offering just what I wanted then and I was willing and able to offer what she almost certainly wanted (money). Unfortunately, I was so beaten down by bad experiences with American women that all I knew how to do was deliver snappy putdowns to defend myself against bitches, and so when I finally encountered non-bitchy women, and especially young pretty non-bitchy women, I was completely flummoxed. My AirBnb hostesses then were also obviously hitting on me, I was getting IOI's constantly from shopgirls as soon as I opened my mouth and thus revealed I was a foreigner, girls were coming into me while dancing, etc. I wasn't an Adonis in my youth with full head of hair, and definitely was not an Adonis at the age of 54 with no hair (58 currently). So these women were not attracted by my looks, I don't think. Rather, they saw me as an obvious sex tourist and thus potential sponsor.
Ukraine economic situation was much worse in 2015 than now, but I continue to generate similiar interest even 5 years later. A younger man like Habeed might be at a disadvantage in the sense that it isn't so obvious that he is a potential sponsor, but on the other hand, most girls age 20-29 prefer men aged 30-45 as sex partners, versus men 30+ years older like me. So all Habeed has to do is make it clear he is willing to sponsor and he should be flooded with candidates.
Every year, young pretty girls from villages and rustbelt cities of Ukraine flock to Kiev in hopes of making their fortune. But Kiev rents are high by Ukrainian standards plus the girls are quickly driven insane with lust for the pretty shoes and dresses and handbags they see the other big city girls wearing. So they are anxious to monetize their youth and beauty, however most girls are not cut out for hard prostitution. What they want is a sponsor, meaning an older man, but not too much older, who they get to choose and who they only see in private so their reputation isn't ruined, who pays them for occasional sex without demanding monogamy, since they also want to find a Ukrainian their own age to marry. If you willing and able to act as such a sponsor, then there is no place like Kiev for combination of superb quality girlfriend experience paid sex at rock bottom prices.
Some tactical details:
1) Never pay in advance, and certainly don't give out 1000 uah for taxi fare like Habeed is doing. At most pay for coffee at the public initial meet and greet. Spread money on a table at your apartment and tell the girl she can pick it up on the way out. If cold feet, partial payment based on how far she went.
2) Don't get emotionally attached. Sponsor relationships typically don't last forever. She isn't yours, it's just your turn.
3) On the other hand, for the best service, you need a multi year relationship, providing a substantial amount of money each year, so that the girl comes to rely upon you as an essential part of her life, versus some guy passing through who she'll never see again in the future.
After screwing around in 2015 and 2016, never following up on IOI's by younger women but rather continuing to pursue normal relationships with women in their 40's and above, which is what I thought I should be pursuing even though that's not what I really wanted, I finally figured out the sponsorship thing in 2017, found a nice girl that summer, then saw her again in summer of 2018 and 2019, and plan to continue seeing her for many more years to come. I pay her about $6000 for the summer, for two visits per week. $2000 of that $6000 is a bonus payment at end of summer, not part of our arrangement: "golden handcuffs", as my old employer used to refer to above market compensation to keep employees from straying. She's a hot commodity but has mixed feelings about what she is doing. I suspect she is in the process of reducing the number of men in her life. I want to make sure I'm one of the men she keeps seeing.
If Habeed can only get to Ukraine two weeks a year, sponsorship not likely to work. Better to find a sugar baby in the USA. Or he could move to Ukraine, where the IT industry is booming. A man in his 30's living full time in Ukraine, with a good job in IT, could find a pretty sponsor girl for much less than $2000/month. Maybe as low as $500/month. Or he could get a normal girlfriend or marry, but expect a girlfriend/wife to also cost $500/month in indirect expenses (man has to pay at restaurants and when traveling, etc).
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Regarding "nigger", my Ukrainian sponsor girl once told me, in English, "I don't want lots of niggers in Ukraine". So racist, yes, but "lots of niggers" is bad translation of "много негров" rather than because she wanted to use a racial slur, since she otherwise never uses crude language. Correct translation would be "lots of black people". Or "lots of sub-Saharan Africans", since that's what she actually meant. Currently, lots of sub-Saharan African students in Ukraine. I detect essentially zero Ukrainian hostility towards such students, however I also suspect most Ukrainians would not be happy to see these Africans remain in Ukraine after their studies are complete.
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hey uksoon, interesting you are doing the sugar daddy route. if it floats your boat why not. had to look up what IOI is lol.
Were you able to find any women interested in you without sponsorship or did they make it quite obvious that money for sex was in play?
I'm alot younger than you but never had no 19 year old come on to me! Things could be alot more desperate in Ukraine than Russia.
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Why would anyone ever need to sponger a women.. total waste of money and you get nothing..
Cheaper to just pay a hooker to hang about with ..
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Yeah, $6000 for a summer's worth of work in Ukraine is big money for a girl there!
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had to look up what IOI is lol.
Were you able to find any women interested in you without sponsorship or did they make it quite obvious that money for sex was in play?
For everyone else, IOI means indication of interest, like when a woman maintains eye contact, smiles, flicks her hair, etc. It means she wants the man to approach her and initiate conversation. IOI always means the woman finds the man physically attractive, but she needs more information to make a final decision as to whether he is a viable mating prospect.
Sure, I met women who didn't expect direct payment when I was pursuing those well-preserved 40yo's. They would have still expected me to pay for dinner, entertainment, and travel however. But they wanted real relationships, whereas I just want a summer girlfriend for sex, without all that dating hassle (restaurants, etc). I didn't understand what I wanted initially however, but now I do.
I sometimes get woman in their 30's and 40's coming onto me at the dances, but I decided not to shit where I eat, so to speak. Dancing very important for me and people would gossip if I dated women I met at the dances. Plus those women probably also want real relationships, though I don't know since I never asked then out. Plus now that I have that sponsor girl, other women just don't interest me much.
Why would anyone ever need to sponger a women.. total waste of money and you get nothing..
Cheaper to just pay a hooker to hang about with ..
Get nothing? I get a better hourly deal than typical escorts (I paid about 1000 uah/hour, quality Kiev escorts usually charge 1500 or more, USA escorts charge way more and could never match my girl's quality), but more importantly I enjoy this girl's company very much, certainly more than just any random escort. I consider my money very well spent. For 2019, I'm projecting total living expenses of about $22000. The $6000 for the sponsor girl gave me more pleasure per dollar than most of the other $16000 expenses.
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had to look up what IOI is lol.
Were you able to find any women interested in you without sponsorship or did they make it quite obvious that money for sex was in play?
For everyone else, IOI means indication of interest, like when a woman maintains eye contact, smiles, flicks her hair, etc. It means she wants the man to approach her and initiate conversation. IOI always means the woman finds the man physically attractive, but she needs more information to make a final decision as to whether he is a viable mating prospect.
Sure, I met women who didn't expect direct payment when I was pursuing those well-preserved 40yo's. They would have still expected me to pay for dinner, entertainment, and travel however. But they wanted real relationships, whereas I just want a summer girlfriend for sex, without all that dating hassle (restaurants, etc). I didn't understand what I wanted initially however, but now I do.
I also get woman in their 30's and 40's coming onto me at the dances, but I decided not to shit where I eat, so to speak. Dancing very important for me and people would gossip if I dated women I met at the dances. Plus those women probably also want real relationships, though I don't know since I never asked then out.
Why would anyone ever need to sponger a women.. total waste of money and you get nothing..
Cheaper to just pay a hooker to hang about with ..
Get nothing? I get a better hourly deal than typical escorts (I paid about 1000 uah/hour, quality Kiev escorts usually charge 1500 or more, USA escorts charge way more and could never match my girl's quality), but more importantly I enjoy this girl's company very much, certainly more than just any random escort. I consider my money very well spent. For 2019, I'm projecting total living expenses of about $22000. The $6000 for the sponsor girl gave me more pleasure per dollar than most of the other $16000 expenses.
You must be pretty desperate to have to pay that sort of money out just for the company of some pretty girls..
If your a good looking guy and got some thing going you can enjoy the company of pretty girls for free.and get plenty of flickering eyelids. ;D
Do we presume you look like the hunchback of Notra Dam ? Just asking the question.. ;D
Would you mind if I spend a few hours with you each summer.. I can flicker my eyelids for you and give you some sexy looks , Im afraid that is all though, but I can do that for $10,000 :laugh:
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Get nothing? I get a better hourly deal than typical escorts (I paid about 1000 uah/hour, quality Kiev escorts usually charge 1500 or more, USA escorts charge way more and could never match my girl's quality), but more importantly I enjoy this girl's company very much, certainly more than just any random escort. I consider my money very well spent. For 2019, I'm projecting total living expenses of about $22000. The $6000 for the sponsor girl gave me more pleasure per dollar than most of the other $16000 expenses.
Did you directly ask the girl about exchanging money for sex and did she need convincing or was she quite willing to do it?
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Would you mind if I spend a few hours with you each summer.. I can flicker my eyelids for you and give you some sexy looks , Im afraid that is all though, but I can do that for $10,000 :laugh:
I think he wants more than a few eye flickers! but hey if he's 58 and getting young girls as a sponsor, if they agree to it why not. Pure capitalism at its best!
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If the woman you are paying gave you IOIs, why are you paying?
At the rate you told us, you are doing much more than shagging her.
Is there something going on that you don't want to think about?
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If the woman you are paying gave you IOIs, why are you paying?
At the rate you told us, you are doing much more than shagging her.
Is there something going on that you don't want to think about?
Yes threesomes , swing clubs, bondage , slavery and all sorts of things ;D
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Did you directly ask the girl about exchanging money for sex and did she need convincing or was she quite willing to do it?
She advertised on mamba looking for sponsor. Mamba has gone downhill in the past two years, but they still have some good candidates.
Regarding the 19yo. Girls weren't desperate in Ukraine in 2015, they are not desperate now, they weren't desperate in the USA back when I was using sugar baby sites there. Young women always and everywhere are interested in monetizing their youth and beauty, but they don't want scandal. So the man has to make it clear in advance that he is offering money and is discreet, only then will young women send IOIs and only to men they consider viable prospects based on looks. At that point, the man can give details of what he is offering. Evidently, something about me screams sex tourist/sponsor in Ukraine, plus I evidently meet the looks threshold for young women there seeking sponsors, plus I look like someone who is discreet. I don't think the looks threshold for sponsors is very high, either in Ukraine or USA. I'm in excellent physical condition but I've met guys who are fat slobs who get beautiful young women. Personality is more important. If you're not getting IOIs, it may be because the girls are afraid you are like Steveboy and have no intention of paying anything. Or even worse, that you will gossip about the girl of she brings up the issue of money.
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Did you directly ask the girl about exchanging money for sex and did she need convincing or was she quite willing to do it?
She advertised on mamba looking for sponsor. Mamba has gone downhill in the past two years, but they still have some good candidates.
Regarding the 19yo. Girls weren't desperate in Ukraine in 2015, they are not desperate now, they weren't desperate in the USA back when I was using sugar baby sites there. Young women always and everywhere are interested in monetizing their youth and beauty, but they don't want scandal. So the man has to make it clear in advance that he is offering money and is discreet, only then will young women send IOIs and only to men they consider viable prospects based on looks. At that point, the man can give details of what he is offering. Evidently, something about me screams sex tourist/sponsor in Ukraine, plus I evidently meet the looks threshold for young women there seeking sponsors, plus I look like someone who is discreet. I don't think the looks threshold for sponsors is very high, either in Ukraine or USA. I'm in excellent physical condition but I've met guys who are fat slobs who get beautiful young women. Personality is more important. If you're not getting IOIs, it may be because the girls are afraid you are like Steveboy and have no intention of paying anything. Or even worse, that you will gossip about the girl of she brings up the issue of money.
girls are afraid you are like Steveboy and have no intention of paying anything. Of course not Im not stupid.. never needed to pay for sex in my life or pay for company of beautiful women..
They just come a long any way cos they like my personality .. tiphat
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Why would anyone ever need to sponger a women.. total waste of money and you get nothing..
Cheaper to just pay a hooker to hang about with ..
Some guys, including myself, don't want to be in the same spot thousands of other men have been prior. Hookers are not considered an option no matter how great the price is.
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Why would anyone ever need to sponger a women.. total waste of money and you get nothing..
Cheaper to just pay a hooker to hang about with ..
Some guys, including myself, don't want to be in the same spot thousands of other men have been prior. Hookers are not considered an option no matter how great the price is.
Not all of us have the opportunity to marry a virgin child bride and her mother. Most of us go a slightly different route.
Everything has a cost. You made your own choices in that regard.
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Not all of us have the opportunity to marry a virgin child bride and her mother. Most of us go a slightly different route.
Choosing hookers over virgins isn't a slightly different route.
You made your own choices in that regard.
Yes, I have choices. I understand some men can't make choices because they don't have options. Beggars can't be choosers. If a man don't have options, he needs to think about fixing his problems to make himself more appealing to get options.
I have no problem with guys using hookers. I understand some guys need a quick release and don't want to go through the motions of courting a woman. Some guys like variety. Some don't want emotional attachment and drama.
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In this context, hookers are not a part of the picture. If you choose to think that all women who had sex before being defiled by your mighty manhood are hookers then that's your choice and problem to deal with.
If your choice to marry a virgin child bride and her mother was the only way you could have a relationship, again, that's your call, but I'd suggest calling, rather than whispering, for assistance with managing the issues that led to that choice.
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If you choose to think that all women who had sex before being defiled by your mighty manhood are hookers then that's your choice and problem to deal with.
I did not say that's what I believe. You're imagining that's what I believe so I see why you're upset. Don't put words into people's mouths and you won't get upset.
I don't have a problem with women who had sex before me. Most of the women I had in my life were not virgins. But, I'm not interested in women that had 1000's of men between their legs. That seems to bother you.
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Why would anyone ever need to sponger a women.. total waste of money and you get nothing..
Cheaper to just pay a hooker to hang about with ..
Some guys, including myself, don't want to be in the same spot thousands of other men have been prior. Hookers are not considered an option no matter how great the price is.
:laugh: What are you talking about!! These girls who have sponcors are screwing every thing that bloody walks! Probably 3/4 men a week!! You think they are staying at home watching soap operas..most would of ****d every member of the local football team a long with nearly every guy in the local night club..they will be screwing young boys and old papas ..
If you sponsor a women it just means she is yours for when you are there.. nothing more.. as soon as you have left she is with the next guy..
Same as if you for example "Sponsor " A women in Ukraine, pay her rent, and so on.. while you are not there she will be screwing other guys.. any photos of yourself with her in a picture frame on the wall are straight down the minute your flight takes off! :laugh:
Nothing wrong with that some women do what they have to do in life like many other people.. but if you any way think sponsoring a women is better than renting a hooker.. no it is not it is no different.. Unless you are seeing that women near full time she will not be yours..
Im not saying there is any thing wrong with sponsoring a women, as I always say.. everyone does what they have to do in life..
If you ever watched the movie
Andy had to swim through 3 miles of shit in the sewer pipes to escape.. :laugh:
I had to have 8 years of shit to arrive in Russia .. one does what one must do..
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Steve, in part I agree with you, but not completely. For some sponsorship is a synonym for prostitution. In such cases you are right.
For many people it isn't.
Of course, for a tourist blowing into town for a few weeks there's no real way of knowing what he's got. Frankly it shouldn't matter for such a guy.
For many men and women, this kind of arrangement is a long-term one and one that enables the woman to NOT have a roster of clients. Some might even see such an arrangement as being close to that enjoyed by many couples with the possible exception of a clarity of roles and responsibilities often missing in relationships. Sometimes the money is a door opener or range extender. A tool that makes one's personal package acceptable to a woman that one desires but who would not otherwise have been accessible.
Personally, I think our hero is almost certainly overpaying, but that's his choice and he can, in the context of his stated budget, easily afford it. He might be muddying the waters for those following him though. Girls talk!
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:laugh: What are you talking about!! These girls who have sponcors are screwing every thing that bloody walks! Probably 3/4 men a week!! You think they are staying at home watching soap operas..most would of ****d every member of the local football team a long with nearly every guy in the local night club..they will be screwing young boys and old papas ..
If you sponsor a women it just means she is yours for when you are there.. nothing more.. as soon as you have left she is with the next guy..
Not all girls who have sponsors are full time hookers. Some won't do a 1000 men in a year just for money. They may want 5 regular sponsors in a year they see occasionally that they trust and respect to help pay for their school and/or living expenses. Some girls can be choosey and they don't want some criminally insane guy just out of prison between their legs just because they can pay for an hours worth of work.
Fortunately for me, I never needed prostitutes or sponsor girls to take care of my needs.
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:laugh: What are you talking about!! These girls who have sponcors are screwing every thing that bloody walks! Probably 3/4 men a week!! You think they are staying at home watching soap operas..most would of ****d every member of the local football team a long with nearly every guy in the local night club..they will be screwing young boys and old papas ..
If you sponsor a women it just means she is yours for when you are there.. nothing more.. as soon as you have left she is with the next guy..
Not all girls who have sponsors are full time hookers. Some won't do a 1000 men in a year just for money. They may want 5 regular sponsors in a year they see occasionally that they trust and respect to help pay for their school and/or living expenses. Some girls can be choosey and they don't want some criminally insane guy just out of prison between their legs just because they can pay for an hours worth of work.
Fortunately for me, I never needed prostitutes or sponsor girls to take care of my needs.
For me I do not care what people do, as I said you must do what you have to do to make your way in life especially if you do not have a fairy grandmother bailing you out..There is nothing wrong with a women who wants sponsors it does not make them a bad person..
BUT the bottom line is they are selling entry to their pussy for cash.. which basically makes them a hooker in any case..
If you think sponsoring a women will eventually lead to a fairy tale marriage you going to be in for a big surprise .. of course I'm sure it does happen some times but generally no..
And often once a girl starts having sponsors it soon leads to other things , of course! They get used to the cash.. more dicks = more cash
If I was a young pretty girl I would probably do it myself.. but try to find some very wealthy guy, help him write his will out then hope he has a heart attack any day soon.. :laugh:
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Sponsorship happens everywhere and even under the guise of marriage. There's some rich old dudes with young women who married them for cash.
You don't think Trump's 3rd wife is on some "sponsorship" deal with him? Google Anna Nicole Smith a former Playmate. She married some rich old Texan for his oil money.
And check this Russian billionaire out: married a beauty pageant probably 25 years younger than him: