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General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: Steveboy on May 09, 2021, 04:52:51 AM

Title: Victory day...
Post by: Steveboy on May 09, 2021, 04:52:51 AM
Shame on you lot!! have you forgot today is Victory day!

(https://scontent.fhel6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/184060842_10219569729210566_8396378874459359864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=IQ848VWuMekAX9OcNGU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhel6-1.fna&oh=f1969a58fbc03b2c5d17cad67bd23c43&oe=60BD82AB)
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 09, 2021, 05:28:16 AM
Its also mothers day :)

Happy V'Day / Mothers day all!
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: AvHdB on May 09, 2021, 07:47:29 AM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Gipsy on May 09, 2021, 10:18:56 AM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.

Yeah right...

He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..

Very convenient ...
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: BillyB on May 09, 2021, 11:00:52 AM
He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..


Who's doing the estimation? Did you know all the people at the Capitol on Jan 5th were White Supremacists? Anytime a government doesn't like a group of people, they apply the Nazi label on them. Doesn't mean it's true. I'm a minority and I've been all over Western Ukraine where the Nazi's are supposed to live and I never felt threatened.

There is a history where Ukrainians joined the Nazis to fight Stalin but it wasn't about a partnership among people who think alike, it was business.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 09, 2021, 11:03:25 AM
He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..


Who's doing the estimation? Did you know all the people at the Capitol on Jan 5th were White Supremacists? Anytime a government doesn't like a group of people, they apply the Nazi label on them. Doesn't mean it's true. I'm a minority and I've been all over Western Ukraine where the Nazi's are supposed to live and I never felt threatened.

There is a history where Ukrainians joined the Nazis to fight Stalin but it wasn't about a partnership among people who think alike, it was business.

They labeled themselves neo-nazi. Complete with nazi swastika hitler salute and ideology
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: BillyB on May 09, 2021, 11:15:17 AM
He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..


Who's doing the estimation? Did you know all the people at the Capitol on Jan 5th were White Supremacists? Anytime a government doesn't like a group of people, they apply the Nazi label on them. Doesn't mean it's true. I'm a minority and I've been all over Western Ukraine where the Nazi's are supposed to live and I never felt threatened.

There is a history where Ukrainians joined the Nazis to fight Stalin but it wasn't about a partnership among people who think alike, it was business.

They labeled themselves neo-nazi. Complete with nazi swastika hitler salute and ideology

I haven't seen 30% of the Ukrainians wearing swastikas. I haven't even seen ONE Ukrainian wearing a swastika in my many travels to Ukraine. I live in America where a hundred thousand Ukrainians settled and haven't seen anybody wearing a swastika.

In the past when a civilian army such as the one in Ukraine joins an organized government army in the case Nazis, they are likely to use the gear, including guns and clothes the organized army gives them. People once thought America supported the terrorists called the Taliban and America supplied them with the gear to fight the Soviets. It wasn't friendship, it was business. People once thought America supported the dictator Saddam Hussein in his fight against Iran. It wasn't friendship, it was business.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Contrarian on May 09, 2021, 11:59:56 AM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.

Is this quote accurate?

How is it that first he says more than 8 million Ukrainians lost their lives, then he goes on to say “at least 7 million”.

Is he really bad at math? Didn’t someone check the speech first?

Other than that it’s a good speech.

And give a rest about the nazi talk.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Contrarian on May 09, 2021, 12:00:57 PM
He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..


Who's doing the estimation? Did you know all the people at the Capitol on Jan 5th were White Supremacists? Anytime a government doesn't like a group of people, they apply the Nazi label on them. Doesn't mean it's true. I'm a minority and I've been all over Western Ukraine where the Nazi's are supposed to live and I never felt threatened.

There is a history where Ukrainians joined the Nazis to fight Stalin but it wasn't about a partnership among people who think alike, it was business.

This.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: B.B. on May 09, 2021, 12:10:51 PM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.

Yeah right...

He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..

Very convenient ...

When 7 million of your people are intentionally starved to death by Stalin, you might be more inclined to listen to the other guy.

I note that the Russians often conveniently forget they were friends and allies with Hitler up until June of 1941.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: B.B. on May 09, 2021, 12:12:16 PM
Shame on you lot!! have you forgot today is Victory day!

I posted abt it on my social media and congratulated some Russians I know personally.  As my dad was a WWII guy, they congratulated me also.

B/B
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Steveboy on May 09, 2021, 12:37:33 PM
Shame on you lot!! have you forgot today is Victory day!

I posted abt it on my social media and congratulated some Russians I know personally.  As my dad was a WWII guy, they congratulated me also.

B/B

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Gipsy on May 09, 2021, 01:29:02 PM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.

Yeah right...

He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..

Very convenient ...

When 7 million of your people are intentionally starved to death by Stalin, you might be more inclined to listen to the other guy.

I think that the figure was more like 3.5-3.9 million.
When the other guy sanctions the many recent neo-Nazi marches carried out in many of his countries cities, including his capitol city, then, in my mind,  the guy has nothing worth listening to.
Russians celebrate Victory Day, the final destruction of Hitler's Nazi's, it is NOT a celebration of other shameful situations brought about by Stalin in the USSR days.

I note that the Russians often conveniently forget they were friends and allies with Hitler up until June of 1941.

I also note that the rise of the third Reich, and much of the war was financed by US bankers
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Contrarian on May 09, 2021, 02:32:55 PM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.

Yeah right...

He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..

Very convenient ...

When 7 million of your people are intentionally starved to death by Stalin, you might be more inclined to listen to the other guy.

I think that the figure was more like 3.5-3.9 million.
When the other guy sanctions the many recent neo-Nazi marches carried out in many of his countries cities, including his capitol city, then, in my mind,  the guy has nothing worth listening to.
Russians celebrate Victory Day, the final destruction of Hitler's Nazi's, it is NOT a celebration of other shameful situations brought about by Stalin in the USSR days.

I note that the Russians often conveniently forget they were friends and allies with Hitler up until June of 1941.

I also note that the rise of the third Reich, and much of the war was financed by US bankers

And what was the ethnicity of those "US bankers"?

It's no mystery that the Bolsheviks were financed by "US bankers" as well.

Pitting the Soviets agains the Germans was intentional. Figure it out. And I disagree with your Holodomor figures.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 09, 2021, 02:44:58 PM
I think that the figure was more like 3.5-3.9 million.
When the other guy sanctions the many recent neo-Nazi marches carried out in many of his countries cities, including his capitol city, then, in my mind,  the guy has nothing worth listening to.
Russians celebrate Victory Day, the final destruction of Hitler's Nazi's, it is NOT a celebration of other shameful situations brought about by Stalin in the USSR days.
Pitting the Soviets agains the Germans was intentional. Figure it out. And I disagree with your Holodomor figures.

The Holodomor was an unforgivable act , never the less, the death toll Gipsy mentioned was correct. All the higher figures includes non-born children because women died.

Quote
In 2002, Ukrainian historian Stanislav Kulchytsky, using demographic data including those recently unclassified, narrowed the losses to about 3.2 million or, allowing for the lack of precise data, 3 million to 3.5 million

source:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Death_toll
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Halo on May 09, 2021, 02:48:41 PM
From the web site of V. Zelensky.

"What is victory over Nazism for us? It is gratitude. Which has no boundaries, statutes of limitations or geographical division," he said. "This is memory. About its horrible price. About the fact that more than eight million Ukrainians died in World War II. That every fifth Ukrainian did not return home. In total, the war claimed at least 50 million lives."

"This is at least seven million Ukrainians, without whom victory would be impossible," he added.

"And for us, the victory over Nazism is a treasure gained through suffering, not another reason to go for barbecues. These are not stickers on cars, but flowers on the grave of ancestors. This is not a carnival, not a costume party, and certainly not a photo shoot of politicians in the uniform of an army to which they had nothing to do, with a machine gun that they do not know how to hold in their hands…This is involvement in a great cause for humanity," he said.

Yeah right...

He failed to mention the estimated 30% of current Ukrainian's who support Nazism..

Very convenient ...

It's not a support of Nazism.  Western Ukrainians were victims of the Nazis as well, with millions taken as slave labourers to Germany.

The fact that Western Ukrainian support those who wanted to fight for their emancipation from the Stalinist regime does not mean they support the Nazis.

You may want to spend less time here and more reading some actual history. 

PS - The most recent estimate of direct Holodomor victims (i.e., deaths) is 4 to 4.5 million.  That is based on studies of actual demographic numbers from Soviet archives.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: B.B. on May 09, 2021, 03:05:18 PM
I note that the Russians often conveniently forget they were friends and allies with Hitler up until June of 1941.

I also note that the rise of the third Reich, and much of the war was financed by US bankers

Was it US bankers whose tanks rolled into Poland from the East?  Asking for a friend.

The Holodomor was an unforgivable act , never the less, the death toll Gipsy mentioned was correct. All the higher figures includes non-born children because women died.

I think the proper word is "genocide" - much like how Stalin reduced the Kazaks to being an ethnic minority in a country NAMED after them.

At any rate it appears that we are proving Stalin's famous dictum correct: "The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic."

B/B

Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 09, 2021, 05:08:46 PM
It's not a support of Nazism.  Western Ukrainians were victims of the Nazis as well, with millions taken as slave labourers to Germany.
And therefore its so troubling that they currently have such widespread support of neo-nazi's.

The fact that Western Ukrainian support those who wanted to fight for their emancipation from the Stalinist regime does not mean they support the Nazis.
No the nazi flag, hitler-salute, propaganda / ideals they are spreading and behaving like nazis + declaring themselves nazi is clear enough for me to say they support the Nazi.

Quote
You may want to spend less time here and more reading some actual history. 
Gipsy wasn't talking about history, he was talking about current events, this month happening right under Zelenski's nose in his own Capital city of Kiev.

Quote
PS - The most recent estimate of direct Holodomor victims (i.e., deaths) is 4 to 4.5 million.  That is based on studies of actual demographic numbers from Soviet archives.
It was 3 - 3.5 mil, already quoted source upthread for that.

And of course B.B. was correct on that, it was genocide , Stalin had no love for human life. The way he treated soldiers, ukrainians, kazakhs, etc. etc. shows that quite clearly.

Luckily, all the world (including Russia) is aware of that and will not allow for stalin-worship anywhere anymore.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Halo on May 09, 2021, 05:24:11 PM
One of the preeminent historians of Ukraine, John-Paul Himka, who had access to all Soviet archives, puts the deaths at 4 million.  Other historians put it at 4.5 million.  That's why I chose a number range. 

As for Nazis, there are not Nazis roaming the streets of Kiev, no matter what your Russian news sources state.  It's a ridiculous assertion.  There are about as many neo Nazis in Ukraine, proportionately, as there are in Russia, other Eastern European, and Western European countries.  In fact, I'd assume less in Central Ukraine, as they experienced a particularly brutal occupation, and young people would not dishonour the memories of their grandparents and great grandparents in this way.  There is far, far more nostalgia for Soviet times in what was "Left Bank" Ukraine than admiration for Nazis. 
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Contrarian on May 09, 2021, 06:36:57 PM
One of the preeminent historians of Ukraine, John-Paul Himka, who had access to all Soviet archives, puts the deaths at 4 million.  Other historians put it at 4.5 million.  That's why I chose a number range. 

As for Nazis, there are not Nazis roaming the streets of Kiev, no matter what your Russian news sources state.  It's a ridiculous assertion.  There are about as many neo Nazis in Ukraine, proportionately, as there are in Russia, other Eastern European, and Western European countries.  In fact, I'd assume less in Central Ukraine, as they experienced a particularly brutal occupation, and young people would not dishonour the memories of their grandparents and great grandparents in this way.  There is far, far more nostalgia for Soviet times in what was "Left Bank" Ukraine than admiration for Nazis.

Well "left bank" Ukraine does include the Donbas and we know what has happened there.

Having said that I think it was in poor taste to bring it up. It's not the proper day for that sort of propaganda.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Contrarian on May 09, 2021, 06:44:48 PM
I note that the Russians often conveniently forget they were friends and allies with Hitler up until June of 1941.

I also note that the rise of the third Reich, and much of the war was financed by US bankers

Was it US bankers whose tanks rolled into Poland from the East?  Asking for a friend.


Well that is why they chose him, they knew he had a predisposition for wanting to rule the World. And quite frankly Preston Bush should have rotted in prison for trading with the enemy. Can't have it both ways.

And yes, he gave a black eye to the idea of Nationalism ever since then. Which is why it was so easy for TPTB to attack Trump for saying he was a Nationalist; or shall we say, an America First type of President.

The Holodomor was an unforgivable act , never the less, the death toll Gipsy mentioned was correct. All the higher figures includes non-born children because women died.

I think the proper word is "genocide" - much like how Stalin reduced the Kazaks to being an ethnic minority in a country NAMED after them.

At any rate it appears that we are proving Stalin's famous dictum correct: "The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic."

B/B

Definitely genocide.

I wonder if Biden will declare as such, since he's now done that for Armenia?

Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: AvHdB on May 10, 2021, 01:17:26 AM
It's not a support of Nazism.  Western Ukrainians were victims of the Nazis as well, with millions taken as slave labourers to Germany.
And therefore its so troubling that they currently have such widespread support of neo-nazi's.

The fact that Western Ukrainian support those who wanted to fight for their emancipation from the Stalinist regime does not mean they support the Nazis.
No the nazi flag, hitler-salute, propaganda / ideals they are spreading and behaving like nazis + declaring themselves nazi is clear enough for me to say they support the Nazi.

Quote
You may want to spend less time here and more reading some actual history. 
Gipsy wasn't talking about history, he was talking about current events, this month happening right under Zelenski's nose in his own Capital city of Kiev.


Basically Mark is parroting Russian propaganda, the Kremlin is pretty good at this tactic. I suspect he is referring to Svoboda.

Svoboda, a party started in the last century that had some very neo-facist standpoints at that time. In the last 10 years they have become far more centerist, but also in the last two election cycles have not gained any seats in Verhovna Rada (Parliament). Certainly there are individuals in Ukraine, as well as The Netherlands and The United States that espouse standpoints of Nazism. I suspect they do not understand how fundamentally evil they were, but the same can be said of the Soviets and there leader at the time.

As I recall earlier this year in the Kiev a Third Reich swastika was painted on the walls just outside the Presidential Palalce, the perpetrators were arrested and admitted they were quite drunk at the time.
 
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: AvHdB on May 10, 2021, 01:48:39 AM

Svoboda, . . . in the last two election cycles have not gained any seats in Verhovna Rada (Parliament).
 


I stand corrected they presently have one constituency seat in the Rada. There are in total 450 seats.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 10, 2021, 02:12:35 AM
Basically Mark is parroting Russian propaganda, the Kremlin is pretty good at this tactic. I suspect he is referring to Svoboda.

Svoboda, a party started in the last century that had some very neo-facist standpoints at that time. In the last 10 years they have become far more centerist, but also in the last two election cycles have not gained any seats in Verhovna Rada (Parliament). Certainly there are individuals in Ukraine, as well as The Netherlands and The United States that espouse standpoints of Nazism. I suspect they do not understand how fundamentally evil they were, but the same can be said of the Soviets and there leader at the time.

As I recall earlier this year in the Kiev a Third Reich swastika was painted on the walls just outside the Presidential Palalce, the perpetrators were arrested and admitted they were quite drunk at the time.
 


You do know that Propaganda works best when its actually the truth, don't you.
I picked up about these nazi's in ukrainian news, not Russian btw.

You can try to downplay anything you want, but the images and language speak for themselves, I don't even need to be ukrainian/russian speaking to understand whats going on here.

I have 1 news site and youtube after a quick google for you. Want to know more, do your own research because I am not going to be called spewing propaganda when you are in disbelieve yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4Wyo39OKhmY
https://amp.strana.ua/news/330734-marsh-v-kieve-sehodnja-onlajn-mitinh-natsionalistov-v-vyshivankakh-v-chest-divizii-ss-halichina.html
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 10, 2021, 02:40:34 AM
German ambassador in Kiev (anka feldhusen) said about this event:
https://twitter.com/AnkaFeldhusen/status/1387442763021660167

Quote
Waffen SS units were involved in the most serious war crimes and the Holocaust during World War II. No volunteer organization that is fighting and working for Ukraine today should be associated with them.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: AvHdB on May 10, 2021, 02:42:32 AM
Basically Mark is parroting Russian propaganda, the Kremlin is pretty good at this tactic. I suspect he is referring to Svoboda.

Svoboda, a party started in the last century that had some very neo-facist standpoints at that time. In the last 10 years they have become far more centerist, but also in the last two election cycles have not gained any seats in Verhovna Rada (Parliament). Certainly there are individuals in Ukraine, as well as The Netherlands and The United States that espouse standpoints of Nazism. I suspect they do not understand how fundamentally evil they were, but the same can be said of the Soviets and there leader at the time.

As I recall earlier this year in the Kiev a Third Reich swastika was painted on the walls just outside the Presidential Palalce, the perpetrators were arrested and admitted they were quite drunk at the time.
 


You do know that Propaganda works best when its actually the truth, don't you.
I picked up about these nazi's in ukrainian news, not Russian btw.

You can try to downplay anything you want, but the images and language speak for themselves, I don't even need to be ukrainian/russian speaking to understand whats going on here.

I have 1 news site and youtube after a quick google for you. Want to know more, do your own research because I am not going to be called spewing propaganda when you are in disbelieve yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4Wyo39OKhmY
https://amp.strana.ua/news/330734-marsh-v-kieve-sehodnja-onlajn-mitinh-natsionalistov-v-vyshivankakh-v-chest-divizii-ss-halichina.html

:Zzzzsleep:

Perhaps 100 people. Lets see Ukraine is 40 plus million. SS Galicia division was formed rather late in the war and it seems they only fought against the Soviets in one battle.

Interesting though the article was written in Russian, what was I saying about propaganda - I say keep on trying.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Markje on May 10, 2021, 03:07:30 AM
Perhaps 100 people. Lets see Ukraine is 40 plus million. SS Galicia division was formed rather late in the war and it seems they only fought against the Soviets in one battle.

Interesting though the article was written in Russian, what was I saying about propaganda - I say keep on trying. [/size][/font]

Right I give up. propaganda much? I used official recognised ukrainian media just because I was afraid you might say that.

Also the German ambassador to Ukraine propaganda? I rather doubt it.

Mark.
Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Danchik on May 10, 2021, 12:50:12 PM
The world's an ugly place at times. Stalin was Georgian and the ultimate paranoid freak. Nazis are everywhere around that area of the world.

Victory Day is a day of celebration. Decent firework show in Moscow last night. The view here is looking over the metro bridge crossing the river from Kievskaya to Smolenskaya with the Old and New Arbat on the right. The firework show is basically over the Kremlin in the background.

Title: Re: Victory day...
Post by: Contrarian on May 11, 2021, 09:20:49 AM
Yes, thank you for beautiful fireworks Danchik.

Here's an interesting letter from a lady in Ukraine about Victory day.

Quote

"I want to share with you something... Are you ready for it? Soon it is a Victory day of Ukraine. It is important day for everybody in my country because you can find a lot of families, who relatives died in the Second World War. That’s why we had a nice family dinner. We called our relatives and just spent time together. We discussed about our roots and how they suffered. So l want to share with you the fact from my own family.

My father's dad died in it. My father still does not know how it happened and how to find this news, also... the young boy lived without his father all the life. He was born after the war, can you imagine what can be worse to lose young husband in the end of the war. They were both very young, everyone was happy the war is finishing, they married and he was called for the army. Nobody was really concerned because my family thought it is almost safe to go to the war. I am still surprised how my grandmother did not lose the kid (my father) when she got the “letter-funeral” her very young husband died in the war actions.

My father told me that she thought as a young girl, she was not more than 16 that time, to commit the suicide because she could not imagine the life without her young husband, her first love, but her mother stopped her, punished her by belt (just imagine the level of being nervous and worried and then to be punished by a belt during the late pregnancy) and said to her “only weak people commit suicide, try to live and to survive”. It is our family credo till this time. When l think l have very hard life, in the time l feel sorry for myself, l remember my grandmother and grand-grandmother.

My grandmother married the second time with a man, but he did not become for my father the true father. Nobody could be instead the first father for him.... However he never seen him, he still sees him in the dreams, when something very serious happens he sees his real father in the dreams. We are not sure is it truth but just describing the appearance of the man he sees in dreams is very close to the description my grandmother about her first love. From her second marriage she had two girls and actually they moved to different cities long ago. But my mother is very friendly and supports contacs with everyone.

If to talk about my second grandfather his parents all died in the war, and he took a part in it also, but he was much younger so he did not participate in the war actions, he worked at factories in the rear. It was very hard work for all people. My mother has big age difference with my dad and her parents is younger than his, but her grandparents died also died in the war... So you can see than the tragedy is really big for my family. And if to ask every family in Ukraine or even Russia or Belarus, every person can tell you about his tragedy in the Second world war… Thats why we all respect this day so much.... I get sad every time when I see something about war actions through the TV.

This means that a human can lose everything what is his life and if it was just a house or a car, it would not be a big problem, but when they lose all their beloved people.... Or stay injured for all life... My opinion that every war is a problem and every war should be finished but also I do not believe that humanity can live in peace.... I am sure you have heard that it was only 286 years (nearly) peace years.... This is so terrible. Why do we continue do this? Why people are so dangerous for themselves, for nature, for animals?"