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RU MOD yesterday released copies of documents found in one of the Ukrainian military communications centers regarding deaths, wounded, AWOL personal, unaccounted for, and soldiers who have transferred their allegiance to the DPR/LRP militaries, these documents were dated March 29, 2022.
These doc's gave the serial No's, names, units, age, where/when data, and for the dead, where buried..
The stated therein losses are reportedly,
Deaths of Ukrainian soldiers, 23,376.
Wounded, 38,000approx.
AWOLs, 8,500 approx.
Unaccounted for, 7,157.
Transferred allegiance, 13,456.
The documents showing the above figures were posted on twitter yesterday..
Personally, I cannot prove nor disprove the above..
Remember the date of the doc's, as now it is 19 April 2022, so there would likely be further additions to the above
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RU MOD yesterday released copies of documents found in one of the Ukrainian military communications centers regarding deaths, wounded, AWOL personal, unaccounted for, and soldiers who have transferred their allegiance to the DPR/LRP militaries, these documents were dated March 29, 2022.
These doc's gave the serial No's, names, units, age, where/when data, and for the dead, where buried..
The stated therein losses are reportedly,
Deaths of Ukrainian soldiers, 23,376.
Wounded, 38,000approx.
AWOLs, 8,500 approx.
Unaccounted for, 7,157.
Transferred allegiance, 13,456.
The documents showing the above figures were posted on twitter yesterday..
Personally, I cannot prove nor disprove the above..
Remember the date of the doc's, as now it is 19 April 2022, so there would likely be further additions to the above
That's very high and doesn't look good.
Even Russian losses are not so high IMHO.
Except if Ukrainian civilians are included in the numerals.
Just my two cents, that looks a fake.
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Could* be accurate.
My thought is it may* show totals to that march date from start of hostilities in 14.
The number of transfers to seperatist happened a bit more initially.
Overall the 98k number out of action seems fake.
That's almost a 50% reduction in troops while Russia lost thier advance and had to regroup.
Meanwhile half the Ukrainian force left noylt only held but after such pushed back some in the south and the east?
Defender loses are typically a third of the offensive forces, , Russia hasn't used much air support to minimize this average factor.
If those numbers are accurate we'd typically be seeing russian loses in the 200k to 300k area and that.for sure hasn't occured.
They have had 12k troops dedicated to Mariupol fo98mmr 4 weeks where only 2 to 4k Ukrainian troops were.
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Why doesn't Russia collect gas payments in Euro and pay its debt? I do not understand this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia%20faces%20first%20foreign%20default%20in%20a%20century%20%E2%80%93%20which%20could%20complicate%20putin's%20war%20in%20ukraine/ar-AAWlm5l?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=0b69dbee38c545c2aca634951afd05be
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Could* be accurate.
My thought is it may* show totals to that march date from start of hostilities in 14.
The number of transfers to seperatist happened a bit more initially.
Overall the 98k number out of action seems fake.
That's almost a 50% reduction in troops while Russia lost thier advance and had to regroup.
Meanwhile half the Ukrainian force left noylt only held but after such pushed back some in the south and the east?
Defender loses are typically a third of the offensive forces, , Russia hasn't used much air support to minimize this average factor.
If those numbers are accurate we'd typically be seeing russian loses in the 200k to 300k area and that.for sure hasn't occured.
They have had 12k troops dedicated to Mariupol fo98mmr 4 weeks where only 2 to 4k Ukrainian troops were.
I feel that you may be right about the timeframe of the losses..
I would also agree that RU has not been used in a good strategic manner, but would say that the move on Kiev was a feint IMHO..
Ref troops in Mariupol, I suggest that you are way out, as according to reports that I have heard from residents there, and other sources, and according to the certified deaths of soldiers there and those who surrendered, and those estimated to still be in Azovstahl, 8-10k is more accurate.....
Edit to add, there are reportedly somewhere in the region of 50k Ukrainian troops in the southern areas, Donbass/Lugansk. and Kharkov areas, east to central area.
Also, from Kiev to the western borders, there are estimated to be less than 30k military available..
All this would mean that there are less than 100k Ukrainian military left..
If this is anywhere near correct, then the initial reported losses would seemingly be nearer than is thought..
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Why doesn't Russia collect gas payments in Euro and pay its debt? I do not understand this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia%20faces%20first%20foreign%20default%20in%20a%20century%20%E2%80%93%20which%20could%20complicate%20putin's%20war%20in%20ukraine/ar-AAWlm5l?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=0b69dbee38c545c2aca634951afd05be
Oh dear Tex, posting crap from MSN written by a couple of questionable persons.
RU has the same problem using Euro's as it has with its stolen dollars....
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Could* be accurate.
My thought is it may* show totals to that march date from start of hostilities in 14.
The number of transfers to seperatist happened a bit more initially.
Overall the 98k number out of action seems fake.
That's almost a 50% reduction in troops while Russia lost thier advance and had to regroup.
Meanwhile half the Ukrainian force left noylt only held but after such pushed back some in the south and the east?
Defender loses are typically a third of the offensive forces, , Russia hasn't used much air support to minimize this average factor.
If those numbers are accurate we'd typically be seeing russian loses in the 200k to 300k area and that.for sure hasn't occured.
They have had 12k troops dedicated to Mariupol fo98mmr 4 weeks where only 2 to 4k Ukrainian troops were.
I feel that you may be right about the timeframe of the losses..
I would also agree that RU has not been used in a good strategic manner, but would say that the move on Kiev was a feint IMHO..
Ref troops in Mariupol, I suggest that you are way out, as according to reports that I have heard from residents there, and other sources, and according to the certified deaths of soldiers there and those who surrendered, and those estimated to still be in Azovstahl, 8-10k is more accurate.....
Edit to add, there are reportedly somewhere in the region of 50k Ukrainian troops in the southern areas, Donbass/Lugansk. and Kharkov areas, east to central area.
Also, from Kiev to the western borders, there are estimated to be less than 30k military available..
All this would mean that there are less than 100k Ukrainian military left..
If this is anywhere near correct, then the initial reported losses would seemingly be nearer than is thought..
Possibly.
As far as Mariupol I was going off battalions initially documented there which was 3.
There certainly could have been, or could be far more.
I'd actually guess that there was or Russia wouldn't have likely dedicated so many battalions to that.
90k on troop loses since 14 is possible, but seems particularly high even over 8 - years.
If true (it certainly could be) id expect to see equal loses on the republics and russian side, over the same prior years.
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Could* be accurate.
My thought is it may* show totals to that march date from start of hostilities in 14.
The number of transfers to seperatist happened a bit more initially.
Overall the 98k number out of action seems fake.
That's almost a 50% reduction in troops while Russia lost thier advance and had to regroup.
Meanwhile half the Ukrainian force left noylt only held but after such pushed back some in the south and the east?
Defender loses are typically a third of the offensive forces, , Russia hasn't used much air support to minimize this average factor.
If those numbers are accurate we'd typically be seeing russian loses in the 200k to 300k area and that.for sure hasn't occured.
They have had 12k troops dedicated to Mariupol fo98mmr 4 weeks where only 2 to 4k Ukrainian troops were.
I feel that you may be right about the timeframe of the losses..
I would also agree that RU has not been used in a good strategic manner, but would say that the move on Kiev was a feint IMHO..
Ref troops in Mariupol, I suggest that you are way out, as according to reports that I have heard from residents there, and other sources, and according to the certified deaths of soldiers there and those who surrendered, and those estimated to still be in Azovstahl, 8-10k is more accurate.....
Edit to add, there are reportedly somewhere in the region of 50k Ukrainian troops in the southern areas, Donbass/Lugansk. and Kharkov areas, east to central area.
Also, from Kiev to the western borders, there are estimated to be less than 30k military available..
All this would mean that there are less than 100k Ukrainian military left..
If this is anywhere near correct, then the initial reported losses would seemingly be nearer than is thought..
That doesn't make any sense. Look:
The Ukrainian army was around 200000
Plus territorial forces plus Police forces (the quality of these people is questionable on the battlefield but they control the territory avoiding infiltration, reconnaissance, and sabotage).Their number is more than the whole Ukrainian Army IMHO
Plus volunteers (the number of volunteers is questionable, the organization seemed to be a mess and the Russian Federation targeted the training camps in Lvov which probably lead to a few dozens of KIA and hundreds of wounded maybe). But one thing is sure, from the foreign volunteers manys guys with combat experience are already on the front.
And the global mobilization that is delivering or will deliver brigades after brigades.
They have too many fighters or people who want to fight considering the equipment + weapons + training available
One million have come back since the beginning of the struggle, and among them, some want to fight (including women, and some are already on the front)
As you wrote, "Defender loses are typically a third of the offensive forces, Russia hasn't used much air support to minimize this average factor."
For the moment I consider that losses of the Russian Federation (KIA, wounded, prisoners) are around 50000 in total.
For Ukraine, I consider that we come along 30000 (which is largely above your rules if we follow the rules' ratio).
This ratio is probably going to change in the incoming campaign (Donbass campaign), it will be more bloody for Ukraine because the war will be more conventional.
The problem that the Russian Federation meets now is the most determinant factor: they don't have more regular or elite troops left and cannot retrieve more or in a very tiny proportion in the short term, the vast majority of the Russians simply don't want to fight. For the 9 May, it severely limits their options.
They now try to encircle the Ukrainian divisions in the Donbass. We will see what happens.
Even if the President of the Russian Federation don't care about losses the attrition is working against Russia, or he needs to make a general mobilization. But look, that's just a special operation no? The regular army should be enough no?
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The ghost of kiev's identity has been revealed.
Not sure how much was fact or fiction, but he will be a part of Ukrainian history.
https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/ghost-of-Kiev-major-stepan-tarabalka-killed-in-battle/
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The ghost of kiev's identity has been revealed.
Not sure how much was fact or fiction, but he will be a part of Ukrainian history.
https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/ghost-of-Kiev-major-stepan-tarabalka-killed-in-battle/
Accordingly to fighters pilots if he has 3 or 4 kills he will be lucky. So 6 kills the first day, that's why lol is called a legend.
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The ghost of kiev's identity has been revealed.
Not sure how much was fact or fiction, but he will be a part of Ukrainian history.
https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/ghost-of-Kiev-major-stepan-tarabalka-killed-in-battle/
Accordingly to fighters pilots if he has 3 or 4 kills he will be lucky. So 6 kills the first day, that's why lol is called a legend.
The article link I posted is not very accurate. The pilot mentioned is a hero, but not the Ghost of Kiev.
The Ghost of Kiev is a legend, a collective of fighter pilots not a single individual.
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How many civillians are they counting as "soldiers"?
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Why doesn't Russia collect gas payments in Euro and pay its debt? I do not understand this.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia%20faces%20first%20foreign%20default%20in%20a%20century%20%E2%80%93%20which%20could%20complicate%20putin's%20war%20in%20ukraine/ar-AAWlm5l?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=0b69dbee38c545c2aca634951afd05be
Oh dear Tex, posting crap from MSN written by a couple of questionable persons.
RU has the same problem using Euro's as it has with its stolen dollars....
So what is wrong with the news article. Russia likely to not pay debt because they do not have dollars. If you dis agree why not tell me why? Why not sell gas in Euros and trade them for dollars and pay debt. I do not get it. Since you are so smart explain it to me.
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Russia must win this war.. what ever the cost.. cos its all about beating the US way of running the planet.. Just like Navalny must be locked up for a long time and if he dies in prison tough shit!
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/04/21/pers-j01.html?fbclid=IwAR1CSCun-yFg4_9yqc5D5Mu5pqxjBaJnXOaam7KsFBPcCAlbPh7Qs7PfQjU
Way to much selective outrage outrage in the world, double standards and hypocrisy ... It needs to end asap.. so come on Russia do the job.. and whilst your their keep the other twat locked up till he rots!
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There is some good news out of Mariupol, about 100 people were evaluated by the UN yesterday.
Maybe they will be able to shed some truths on how they have been treated by the soldiers from both sides?
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Russia must win this war.. what ever the cost.. cos its all about beating the US way of running the planet.. Just like Navalny must be locked up for a long time and if he dies in prison tough shit!
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/04/21/pers-j01.html?fbclid=IwAR1CSCun-yFg4_9yqc5D5Mu5pqxjBaJnXOaam7KsFBPcCAlbPh7Qs7PfQjU
Way to much selective outrage outrage in the world, double standards and hypocrisy ... It needs to end asap.. so come on Russia do the job.. and whilst your their keep the other twat locked up till he rots!
What is really ashamed is so many Russians will end up dead over destroying the country which is likely to occur no matter what the final outcome of the war. This makes what happened in Afghanistan war look like nothing which set the stage for the fall of the USSR. Fasten your seatbelts as life is going to get much harder everywhere.
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Way to much selective outrage outrage in the world, double standards and hypocrisy ...
I do agree with all of this. It is outrageous when Russia makes a move. When the US does it's characterized differently. China hasn't yet made a move, nevertheless the West tries to thwart them, and almost provoke them into doing something. The west doesn't like competitors and will do all it can to constrict them all the while pretending to be the good guys.
Jonas!
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Way to much selective outrage outrage in the world, double standards and hypocrisy ...
I do agree with all of this. It is outrageous when Russia makes a move. When the US does it's characterized differently. China hasn't yet made a move, nevertheless the West tries to thwart them, and almost provoke them into doing something. The west doesn't like competitors and will do all it can to constrict them all the while pretending to be the good guys.
Jonas!
Whatever you want to believe. War will not end any time soon unless Russia gives up and goes home. Some of the countries supplying Ukraine in this conflict.
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Russia must win this war.. what ever the cost.. cos its all about beating the US way of running the planet.. Just like Navalny must be locked up for a long time and if he dies in prison tough shit!
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/04/21/pers-j01.html?fbclid=IwAR1CSCun-yFg4_9yqc5D5Mu5pqxjBaJnXOaam7KsFBPcCAlbPh7Qs7PfQjU
Way to much selective outrage outrage in the world, double standards and hypocrisy ... It needs to end asap.. so come on Russia do the job.. and whilst your their keep the other twat locked up till he rots!
The reason people prefer the US or Russia is simple to understand, the USA has far better PR. American politicians and businesses get taken down all the time by the press, courts and public opinion. In Russia you don't say anything really bad against Putin. The Russian court system isn't going to rule against Putin and the Russian government and say a new law is unconstitutional.
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Do you know what? I really do not care on anyones opinions the war is "Self Inflicted" Its not the peoples faults as usual it is the governments AND the US and NATO.. the people are just pawns..
What a "Self inflicted " mess.. that is it ..
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Steve, All this war is, is a land and resource grab and everything else is bull shit. There is nothing to do about Nazis and helping the people in Ukraine that is real. Too bad young Russians are going to pay for this war with their lives and the future of your son will dimmer because of this war.
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Russia must win this war.. what ever the cost.. cos its all about beating the US way of running the planet.. Just like Navalny must be locked up for a long time and if he dies in prison tough shit!
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/04/21/pers-j01.html?fbclid=IwAR1CSCun-yFg4_9yqc5D5Mu5pqxjBaJnXOaam7KsFBPcCAlbPh7Qs7PfQjU
Way to much selective outrage outrage in the world, double standards and hypocrisy ... It needs to end asap.. so come on Russia do the job.. and whilst your their keep the other twat locked up till he rots!
What is really ashamed is so many Russians will end up dead over destroying the country which is likely to occur no matter what the final outcome of the war. This makes what happened in Afghanistan war look like nothing which set the stage for the fall of the USSR. Fasten your seatbelts as life is going to get much harder everywhere.
You know what tex.. If I get the chance Im happy to fight.. I do not really fight or argue for anyone other than Hypocrisy and your country is NUMBER 1 for hypocrisy .. it is as simple as that.. something needs to be done about it.. if that means lots need to die.. so be it.. In the end I think soon enough the world will not be global or a global village.. its going to be the double standards and hypercritical West.. and on the other side the East .. I do not care what side you are on or listening to you bla bla bla bla.. I will be on the East... Good luck on your side..
I don't need your Pepsi cola.. thanks..
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Steve, All this war is, is a land and resource grab and everything else is bull shit. There is nothing to do about Nazis and helping the people in Ukraine that is real. Too bad young Russians are going to pay for this war with their lives and the future of your son will dimmer because of this war.
My wife is also happy to fight.. no its not all about Nazis I already told you what it is about DOUBLE STANDARDS & HYPOCRISY.. If we all die in the process lest speak about it on the other side..
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Steve, All this war is, is a land and resource grab and everything else is bull shit. There is nothing to do about Nazis and helping the people in Ukraine that is real. Too bad young Russians are going to pay for this war with their lives and the future of your son will dimmer because of this war.
My wife is also happy to fight.. no its not all about Nazis I already told you what it is about DOUBLE STANDARDS & HYPOCRISY.. If we all die in the process lest speak about it on the other side..
Steve, why don't you and your wife start a website to recruit Brits, Americans and others to fight for Russia? The Ukrainian government has been very successful in recruiting foreigners to fight for Ukraine, maybe you could be equally successful in getting foreigners to fight for Russia?
You and your wife say you're happy to fight for Russia? Then do it. You could take cameras along when you fighting and get some photos and videos. I'm sure Manny would allow you to post them here.
Maybe Manny will even allow you to do posts about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Since Manny is very much pro Putin I'm surprised he doesn't have a section here about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Best of luck.
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Maybe Manny will even allow you to do posts about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Since Manny is very much pro Putin I'm surprised he doesn't have a section here about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Best of luck.
I'm not sure where Manny lives but here in the states I think a person would be sent to Guantanamo bay Cuba if he tried this sort of thing. On a related subject, here in the states a person can't make that choice. Also here in the states no person can travel to Cuba for tourism.
Jonas!
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Steve, All this war is, is a land and resource grab and everything else is bull shit. There is nothing to do about Nazis and helping the people in Ukraine that is real. Too bad young Russians are going to pay for this war with their lives and the future of your son will dimmer because of this war.
My wife is also happy to fight.. no its not all about Nazis I already told you what it is about DOUBLE STANDARDS & HYPOCRISY.. If we all die in the process lest speak about it on the other side..
Steve, why don't you and your wife start a website to recruit Brits, Americans and others to fight for Russia? The Ukrainian government has been very successful in recruiting foreigners to fight for Ukraine, maybe you could be equally successful in getting foreigners to fight for Russia?
You and your wife say you're happy to fight for Russia? Then do it. You could take cameras along when you fighting and get some photos and videos. I'm sure Manny would allow you to post them here.
Maybe Manny will even allow you to do posts about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Since Manny is very much pro Putin I'm surprised he doesn't have a section here about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Best of luck.
I have more interesting things to do ..like make money.. at the moment that is ok.. if and when the time arrises like there will be WW3 then that situation may change and if it does I will be happy to fight for Russia ..pretty simple really .. no need to make a web site, go recruiting, post pictures on this forum or other forums if the situation happens that I have to fight, you really think im going to spend my time posting pictures on here.. :laugh:
And if the situation should change to WW3 there would be no point even posting any photos.. this forum will be debunked just like most other internet sites along with most of the population and maybe yourself..
But please If you get called up and arrive over here ready to walk into Red Square please wear a badge on your hat saying "Westcoast" So I don't make a mistake of shooting someone else whilst aiming at you.. :laugh:
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Maybe Manny will even allow you to do posts about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Since Manny is very much pro Putin I'm surprised he doesn't have a section here about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Best of luck.
I'm not sure where Manny lives but here in the states I think a person would be sent to Guantanamo bay Cuba if he tried this sort of thing. On a related subject, here in the states a person can't make that choice. Also here in the states no person can travel to Cuba for tourism.
Jonas!
If not there then to one of their European concentration camps.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30418405 :laugh:
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But please If you get called up and arrive over here ready to walk into Red Square please wear a badge on your hat saying "Westcoast" So I don't make a mistake of shooting someone else whilst aiming at you.. :laugh:
How mean! He seems pretty harmless. Just shoot him in the butt with a BB to see if his reflexes are still good.
Jonas!
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Steve, All this war is, is a land and resource grab and everything else is bull shit. There is nothing to do about Nazis and helping the people in Ukraine that is real. Too bad young Russians are going to pay for this war with their lives and the future of your son will dimmer because of this war.
My wife is also happy to fight.. no its not all about Nazis I already told you what it is about DOUBLE STANDARDS & HYPOCRISY.. If we all die in the process lest speak about it on the other side..
Steve, why don't you and your wife start a website to recruit Brits, Americans and others to fight for Russia? The Ukrainian government has been very successful in recruiting foreigners to fight for Ukraine, maybe you could be equally successful in getting foreigners to fight for Russia?
You and your wife say you're happy to fight for Russia? Then do it. You could take cameras along when you fighting and get some photos and videos. I'm sure Manny would allow you to post them here.
Maybe Manny will even allow you to do posts about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Since Manny is very much pro Putin I'm surprised he doesn't have a section here about recruiting foreigners to fight for Russia? Best of luck.
I have more interesting things to do ..like make money.. at the moment that is ok.. if and when the time arrises like there will be WW3 then that situation may change and if it does I will be happy to fight for Russia ..pretty simple really .. no need to make a web site, go recruiting, post pictures on this forum or other forums if the situation happens that I have to fight, you really think im going to spend my time posting pictures on here.. :laugh:
And if the situation should change to WW3 there would be no point even posting any photos.. this forum will be debunked just like most other internet sites along with most of the population and maybe yourself..
But please If you get called up and arrive over here ready to walk into Red Square please wear a badge on your hat saying "Westcoast" So I don't make a mistake of shooting someone else whilst aiming at you.. :laugh:
Supposedly the Ukrainian government is paying foreign fighters very well (£1,500 a day) so if the Russian government follows suit you and your wife could make some very good money fighting for Russia. Then of course there's the honors you could receive. If you save a high ranking officer's life you could receive military honors.
Also if you help shorten the war there'd be no need for WW3. If you help Russia succeed in capturing Ukraine maybe you'll receive your own command when Putin decides on his next FSU country to bring back in the fold?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-foreign-soldiers-russia-foreign-legion-fight-b986175.html
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Supposedly the Ukrainian government is paying foreign fighters very well (£1,500 a day)
[/quote]
I guess that is where US billions are being spent.
$1500 a day is enough to definitely lure in a lot of people, although the risk of death is probably extremely high. I wonder if there is a death bonus that goes to the families of those killed.
It kind of shows the power of money overall. One reason why Russia is going to fight to be in a better position to make more in the future by whatever means necessary.... like the US does.
Jonas!
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Supposedly the Ukrainian government is paying foreign fighters very well (£1,500 a day)
I guess that is where US billions are being spent.
$1500 a day is enough to definitely lure in a lot of people, although the risk of death is probably extremely high. I wonder if there is a death bonus that goes to the families of those killed.
It kind of shows the power of money overall. One reason why Russia is going to fight to be in a better position to make more in the future by whatever means necessary.... like the US does.
Jonas!
[/quote]
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I'm not sure where Manny lives
Manchester, England. "Manny" is actually a derivative of "Manchester".
but here in the states I think a person would be sent to Guantanamo bay Cuba if he tried this sort of thing.
Wouldn't be 'Gitmo unless you were foreign born, and even then not likely. Usually, the guys who get picked up for this are being recruited to ISIS or al-Qaida - or think they are but really they are talking to an FBI agent. You'd have to be recruiting to join the armed forces of a sworn enemy, but not Ukr or Russia, at least until we go to war with Russia, if that happens, which I hope it does not. You might get a "visit" but I doubt they'd do anything besides discourage you.
Also here in the states no person can travel to Cuba for tourism.
False. The Cubans will happily admit US Passport holders. You just cannot fly direct.
B/B
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Supposedly the Ukrainian government is paying foreign fighters very well (£1,500 a day)
Where did you get this from? The fighter I have seen being interview claimed they were not getting paid anything.
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but here in the states I think a person would be sent to Guantanamo bay Cuba if he tried this sort of thing.
Wouldn't be 'Gitmo unless you were foreign born, and even then not likely. Usually, the guys who get picked up for this are being recruited to ISIS or al-Qaida - or think they are but really they are talking to an FBI agent. You'd have to be recruiting to join the armed forces of a sworn enemy, but not Ukr or Russia, at least until we go to war with Russia, if that happens, which I hope it does not. You might get a "visit" but I doubt they'd do anything besides discourage you.
I was joking about Gitmo...but yeah if we actually went to war with Russia individuals wouldn't matter much anyway, the weaponry would take out massive amounts of people all at once anyway.
False. The Cubans will happily admit US Passport holders. You just cannot fly direct.
B/B
I know Cuba is just fine with us coming. I tried to book a trip recently. Our local sites like Expedia won't even permit a person in the states from seeing the flights originating from Mexico to Cuba. I tried to put Tijuana to Cuba and I can't remember if it was Expedia or Priceline but they directed me to a page of US sanctions link. When I head to Colombia I'll have to see if I can use a different website after I get there.
Jonas!
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Supposedly the Ukrainian government is paying foreign fighters very well (£1,500 a day)
I guess that is where US billions are being spent.
$1500 a day is enough to definitely lure in a lot of people, although the risk of death is probably extremely high. I wonder if there is a death bonus that goes to the families of those killed.
It kind of shows the power of money overall. One reason why Russia is going to fight to be in a better position to make more in the future by whatever means necessary.... like the US does.
Jonas!
[/quote]
According to the last Brit to be captured he has not been paid.. :laugh: Probably before he decided to offer his services he had never even heard of Ukraine.. so had no idea they do not pay anyone.. they just steal money its easier.. they do not even pay the old folk there for working each month.. It is one of the reasons Im not and never will do any tours there.. just aint worth the hassle ... I came to this conclusion about 20 years ago..
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.. It is one of the reasons Im not and never will do any tours there.. just aint worth the hassle ... I came to this conclusion about 20 years ago..
Steveboy you are so right, Ukraine has not undergone any changes in the last twenty years. There is no reason to stay current.
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Anyone know what type of bomb is in the link below?
https://twitter.com/JoeyContino/status/1521932113079111681?s=20&t=NPJHYIlee2llVdbqF3k9lA
Russia has broken into the Azovstal plant and there is heavy fighting going on.
Russia has also been bombing the plant by every way possible
There is still an estimated 500 civilians inside the plant
How is what Russia is doing anymore acceptable than what the Ukrainian Nazis were Supposedly accused of?
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Did Russia steal 400K tons of grain from Ukraine? Maybe, maybe not but either way this is another reason why Putin would want Ukraine. Ukraine is the 4th supplier of grain, selling about 44.7 million tonnes in the 2020-2021 season.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/russia-steals-400000-tons-grain-ukraine-famine-warning-144407455.html
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Did Russia steal 400K tons of grain from Ukraine? Maybe, maybe not but either way this is another reason why Putin would want Ukraine. Ukraine is the 4th supplier of grain, selling about 44.7 million tonnes in the 2020-2021 season.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/russia-steals-400000-tons-grain-ukraine-famine-warning-144407455.html
saw this vid earlier. who knows how truthful it is
or what is in trucks
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Did Russia steal 400K tons of grain from Ukraine? Maybe, maybe not but either way this is another reason why Putin would want Ukraine. Ukraine is the 4th supplier of grain, selling about 44.7 million tonnes in 2020-2021 season.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/russia-steals-400000-tons-grain-ukraine-famine-warning-144407455.html
Once the decision was made that Ukraine was the enemy, I think this is one of the key resources Russia decided they were going to take from Ukraine and their Western supporters.
Jonas!
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Supposedly the Ukrainian government is paying foreign fighters very well (£1,500 a day)
Where did you get this from? The fighter I have seen being interview claimed they were not getting paid anything.
Texan77 I recommend you read all of my posts. At least 80% of my posts are highly informative. 15% are good and the other 5% can be ignored.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-foreign-soldiers-russia-foreign-legion-fight-b986175.html
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Now the EU is getting really serious about cutting off the revenue Russia earns from sales of its oil. The EU is proposing a ban on European ships and companies providing any service related to the shipment of Russian crude and refined products anywhere in the world — such as financing, insurance, or even technical support — according to draft legislation seen by Bloomberg.
Since Greece is by far the biggest shipper of Russian oil and oil products and is an EU member this might actually work and cut off a significant source of revenue for Russia.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-going-russias-global-oil-124436982.html
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All civilians have been evaluated from the Azovstal plant.
The fighting continues and is doubtful Russia will take control before their victory day.
It's been rumored for a few weeks now that the remaining soldiers were running out of supplies and ammunition, but somehow they continue to fight.
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Have they all been evacuated?
Some of the fighters came out under a white flag, but the ones who remain were a day or two ago asking for a tonne of food and drugs in exchange for one hostage.
That implies that they have stock in hand of hostages to exchange.
And yes, they are hostages. If they were free to leave then no food for person exchange would be offered.
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Have they all been evacuated?
Some of the fighters came out under a white flag, but the ones who remain were a day or two ago asking for a tonne of food and drugs in exchange for one hostage.
That implies that they have stock in hand of hostages to exchange.
And yes, they are hostages. If they were free to leave then no food for person exchange would be offered.
There's also many other sources saying the same.
I would think there will be some heavy bombing there to try and secure the last holdout
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-war-taking-heavy-toll-russian-forces-u-rcna27760
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Compared the rather lame and insipid speech of V. Putin what W. Zelensky states is poignant and forceful.
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Have they all been evacuated?
Some of the fighters came out under a white flag, but the ones who remain were a day or two ago asking for a tonne of food and drugs in exchange for one hostage.
That implies that they have stock in hand of hostages to exchange.
And yes, they are hostages. If they were free to leave then no food for person exchange would be offered.
Yea and where did you get this fake news from?
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Have they all been evacuated?
Some of the fighters came out under a white flag, but the ones who remain were a day or two ago asking for a tonne of food and drugs in exchange for one hostage.
That implies that they have stock in hand of hostages to exchange.
And yes, they are hostages. If they were free to leave then no food for person exchange would be offered.
One hostage being a captured pow,pr a civilian?
I I havnt seen that,
Though I would not doubt it's a possibility
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An art museum in Mariupol has apparently been destroyed by a Russian airstrike.
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/03/23/mariupol-museum-dedicated-to-19th-century-artist-arkhip-kuindzhi-destroyed-by-airstrike-according-to-local-media?utm_source=The+Art+Newspaper+Newsletters&utm_campaign=816be45365-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_03_22_09_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c459f924d0-816be45365-61039233
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An art museum in Mariupol has apparently been destroyed by a Russian airstrike.
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/03/23/mariupol-museum-dedicated-to-19th-century-artist-arkhip-kuindzhi-destroyed-by-airstrike-according-to-local-media?utm_source=The+Art+Newspaper+Newsletters&utm_campaign=816be45365-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_03_22_09_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c459f924d0-816be45365-61039233
It seems the artwork of Arkhip Kuindzhi was removed. Though there is the likelihood other art work were lost. It seems both Russian and Ukraine claim him as there own. Sort of like Piet Mondriaan, the Dutch consider him a Cloggie, the French a frog and the Americans claim him as American. Such is art history.
There is more than enough evidence that Russia has deliberately targeted Ukraine cultural sites and museums.
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Ukrainian in Ukraine
reporting just delivered M777s attacked by drone and artillery
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I watch this guy often. But what likely will happen to the damaged 777 is that they will haul them to a rehab shop interchange a few parts and get some parts from the USA and many of them will be back in action. The weapons are really quite simple. It is what makes them so great for the Ukraine army.
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I watch this guy often. But what likely will happen to the damaged 777 is that they will haul them to a rehab shop interchange a few parts and get some parts from the USA and many of them will be back in action. The weapons are really quite simple. It is what makes them so great for the Ukraine army.
you certainly make it sound very simple...plug and play
and the soldiers?
I worked for company that built parts for the M777. they are very precisely built weapons, very tight tolerances. the weapons are simple, but are going to require a shop that might be out of country ( not in Ukraine )
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I watch this guy often. But what likely will happen to the damaged 777 is that they will haul them to a rehab shop interchange a few parts and get some parts from the USA and many of them will be back in action. The weapons are really quite simple. It is what makes them so great for the Ukraine army.
Really? :o
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This vid is already proven to be partially faked.
The drone grenade drop is geo located at one location .
Then it shows the units pulled into a forest and mortar shelling.
Yet the large artillery at the end into the forest (where you cant see the m777s) is geo.located completely another location up near cernihiv and that part of the altered video was shot prior to Ukraine getting 777s.
This vid from.a pro Russianrddit/telegram source even changed the vids title after the editing was pointed out.
If they had vids if they being destroyed they would show it and not need to edit in old footage
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This vid is already proven to be partially faked.
The drone grenade drop is geo located at one location .
Then it shows the units pulled into a forest and mortar shelling.
Yet the large artillery at the end into the forest (where you cant see the m777s) is geo.located completely another location up near cernihiv and that part of the altered video was shot prior to Ukraine getting 777s.
This vid from.a pro Russianrddit/telegram source even changed the vids title after the editing was pointed out.
If they had vids if they being destroyed they would show it and not need to edit in old footage
yes, I see that a lot of people are saying in the comments that it is faked
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(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282341281_4898793306886201_9106329763825102057_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CjqtMU0QdNYAX8HIyZ4&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8VA88dcItNKUhMvyt-K6wRc0i4imKRbKnKY3h9BEbXdA&oe=628C7197)
I think it will be game over soon..
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The Netherlands have joined Germany in not sending weapons to Ukraine.
We have exhausted all expendable supply, Rutte said.
Source:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/141371755/rutte-niet-meer-pantserhouwitsers-naar-oekraine
And because NL is currently not at war, they will also not commandeer factories to turn them into weapons producing facilities. The army will have to wait for the normal supply line
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The Netherlands have joined Germany in not sending weapons to Ukraine.
We have exhausted all expendable supply, Rutte said.
Source:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/141371755/rutte-niet-meer-pantserhouwitsers-naar-oekraine
And because NL is currently not at war, they will also not commandeer factories to turn them into weapons producing facilities. The army will have to wait for the normal supply line
I also read that.. Europe will have no supplies left to send soon all those multi million $ missiles will need to be replaced ...
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here he is confirming that his previous vid was fake
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(https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282341281_4898793306886201_9106329763825102057_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CjqtMU0QdNYAX8HIyZ4&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8VA88dcItNKUhMvyt-K6wRc0i4imKRbKnKY3h9BEbXdA&oe=628C7197)
I think it will be game over soon..
Pro.Russia has said that since day one.
Except the day after moskva,bit then they got right back.to.it.
They might eventually be correct.
That photo.is supposed to.be who.exactly?.
And the letters verbiage sounds a lot like the debunked letter from.the 36 th Marines in azovstsl a month ago.
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Per Strategic Intelligence reports Ukraine running out of Highly Trained Soldiers able to use Advanced UK and USA Weapons Systems (Javelins, Stingers, Switchblade Drones, Satellite Intelligence) yet the US is now sending an additional $40 BILLION USD to Ukraine for Military and Civilian aid and relief and support...
Much of this advanced gear is making its way to the Black Markets in both Ukraine and Russia and is now being sold for reverse engineering purposes to China and to support ISIS, HAMAS and AL Qaeda terrorism...
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A War update.
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Russian officer reporting on Ukrainian losses.
Some of these numbers seem a bit excessive.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdnRdQxr/
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Ukrainian naval ships/boats taken over by Russia
http://www.hisutton.com/Captured-Ukrainian-Vessels-Now-in-Russian-Navy.html
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That's very high and doesn't look good.
Even Russian losses are not so high IMHO.
Except if Ukrainian civilians are included in the numerals.
Just my two cents, that looks a fake.
If the first number is correct Deaths of Ukrainian soldiers, 23,376
If you take total casualty rates into consideration you typically get something
like 2-3 wounded for every death.
War is truly a meat grinder.
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Seems believable
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With Russia blocking any export of grain, the Ukrainian wheat will be held up causing shortages for several countries.
Russia wants sanctions lifted, can't understand why because many here are of the opinion that the sanctions aren't doing much.
There is a growing number that are ready to either bring Nato ships or other ships to escort the Ukrainian wheat across the black sea.
This could directly provoke Russia, but what Russia is doing isn't exactly by the book.
Personally I think Russia is not willing to confront the west or Nato. They continue to make threats but even after many shipments of weapons to Ukraine, Putin's threats have been nothing but hot air.
I don't use the western media or believe much they publish, but the link is a courtesy to anyone curious about the subject.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/how-to-break-russias-blockade-of-ukraines-black-sea-ports/2022/05/29/2cd240c2-df26-11ec-bc35-a91d0a94923b_story.html
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With Russia blocking any export of grain, the Ukrainian wheat will be held up causing shortages for several countries.
Fake news, this is from 25-May:
https://www.transport-online.nl/site/140750/rusland-bereid-schepen-met-voedsel-door-zwarte-zee-te-laten-varen/
There is a growing number that are ready to either bring Nato ships or other ships to escort the Ukrainian wheat across the black sea.
Other than this is not needed because Russia is no longer blocking any food-ships from leaving, how do they think this is going to play out?
The 2 main harbours of Ukraine are Odessa and Mariupol. Once ships clear the Russian ships they are already past the warzone.
Before that, it would mean that NATO would have to go inside of their firing range and hope to god that Russia doesn't see them as legitimate targets inside an active warzone (which they will, any sane general will)
This could directly provoke Russia, but what Russia is doing isn't exactly by the book.
Hence ,why war should be avoided at all costs. Its a huge error of Putin to start one war, but the west is equally responsible for keeping it going and not listening to Russia's concerns. Putin said: this is Russia's redline. The west called his bluff and crossed it. Turns out it wasn't bluff and war started.
This is not rocket science.
Personally I think Russia is not willing to confront the west or Nato. They continue to make threats but even after many shipments of weapons to Ukraine, Putin's threats have been nothing but hot air.
I'd rather not play with billions of lives when he's not bluffing. And his previous crossed red lines started a war in ukraine so he was definately not bluffing there. Thats one thing , Putin so far does exactly what he says.
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short article about grain be loaded on Russian ships
http://www.hisutton.com/Russian-Merchant-Ships-Loading-In-Crimea.html
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short article about grain be loaded on Russian ships
http://www.hisutton.com/Russian-Merchant-Ships-Loading-In-Crimea.html
Another excellent example of why Russia wants Ukraine. Ukraine's grain helps to feed the world. Ukraine's grain brings in money and Putin loves money. I'm sure somehow more than a few USDs from each sale will find its way into Putin's pockets.
If Russia controls the farming in Ukraine grain that isn't sent to Russia will be sold abroad and the money earned will go to Russia not Ukraine.
But of course that isn't why Putin invaded Ukraine. We all know Putin invaded Ukraine to eliminate Nazis. :'( :'( :'(
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short article about grain be loaded on Russian ships
http://www.hisutton.com/Russian-Merchant-Ships-Loading-In-Crimea.html
Another excellent example of why Russia wants Ukraine. Ukraine's grain helps to feed the world. Ukraine's grain brings in money and Putin loves money. I'm sure somehow more than a few USDs from each sale will find its way into Putin's pockets.
If Russia controls the farming in Ukraine grain that isn't sent to Russia will be sold abroad and the money earned will go to Russia not Ukraine.
But of course that isn't why Putin invaded Ukraine. We all know Putin invaded Ukraine to eliminate Nazis. :'( :'( :'(
Russia will now control more of the world's food, which will make It even more difficult to isolate them.
As has been stated many times, perhaps it would be better for Ukraine to have yielded to Russian earlier demands, since he alternative continues to worsen. It doesn't appear a determined Russia will be stopped and Russia has shown it's determination.
the west should have heeded the many warnings regarding expansion. this is the consequence Ukraine suffers. Compounding the issue is the effort to milk Russia at Ukraine's populace expense. Now maybe too late. Early surrender and terms no so bad all things considered. Options worsen as war continues. Like it or no, Russia holds the key cards, so would have been best to fold a losing hand and live to fight another day. Now Ukraine probably dies on this hill.
Jonas!
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I am not even sure that this a loss for Ukraine. V. Pinchuk is selling his J. Koons to benefit Ukrainian citizens.
https://news.artnet.com/market/victor-pinchuk-jeff-koons-christies-sale-2126587?utm_content=from_auctions-newsletter&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=US%20News%20Morning%206%2F8%2F22&utm_term=US%20Daily%20Newsletter%20%5BMORNING%5D
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Russia will now control more of the world's food, which will make It even more difficult to isolate them.
Boy!!! talk about sick! So now your excited that a NAZI dictator would control so much of the world food supply. Now move this forward twenty years and think the type of life your children would face.
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Finland's government plans to amend border legislation to allow the building of barriers on its eastern frontier with Russia, it said on Thursday, in a move to strengthen preparedness against hybrid threats amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/finland-plans-build-barriers-border-131838296.html
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Russia will now control more of the world's food, which will make It even more difficult to isolate them.
Boy!!! talk about sick! So now your excited that a NAZI dictator would control so much of the world food supply. Now move this forward twenty years and think the type of life your children would face.
Are you an idiot also trying to make it about me, while mischaracterizing my level of 'excitement'? Realty is Russia is on course to control more of the world resources. Westward efforts of expansion in his region are failing and backfiring. Your fake stories about Russia getting ruined are doing nothing except spreading disinformation and undermining
truthful discourse in general.
Jonas!
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Two British citizens and a Moroccan, Aiden Aslin, Shaun Pinner and Saaudun Brahim, were sentenced to death by firing squad Thursday for fighting on Ukraine's side, in a punishment handed down by the country's pro-Moscow rebels.
A court in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic found the three men guilty of working toward a violent overthrow of power, an offense punishable by death in the unrecognized eastern republic. They were also convicted of mercenary activities and terrorism.
The irony seems to be lost on Moscow and the court in the Donetsk People’s Republic. Putin's favorite mercenary group the Wagner Group are mercenaries who have operated in Ukraine, Russia, Syria and parts of Africa sometimes reportedly at the behest of Putin.
The article states that the Donetsk People’s Republic is not internationally recognized as a sovereign state however the DPR is has been recently recognized by Russia with Putin signing the orders February 21, 2022.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/smashed-buildings-mariupol-produce-caravan-040713053.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_Donetsk_People%27s_Republic_and_the_Lugansk_People%27s_Republic
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More evidence for the hypothesis that Putin is attempting to rebuild the USSR. Putin said during his speech "Apparently, it also fell to us to return (what is Russia's) and strengthen (the country). And if we proceed from the fact that these basic values form the basis of our existence, we will certainly succeed in solving the tasks that we face."
If Putin prevails in Ukraine can Moldova be far behind? If Putin prevails in Moldova will the stans be next?
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/hailing-peter-great-putin-draws-173955810.html
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Russia will now control more of the world's food, which will make It even more difficult to isolate them.
Boy!!! talk about sick! So now your excited that a NAZI dictator would control so much of the world food supply. Now move this forward twenty years and think the type of life your children would face.
Are you an idiot also trying to make it about me, while mischaracterizing my level of 'excitement'? Realty is Russia is on course to control more of the world resources. Westward efforts of expansion in his region are failing and backfiring. Your fake stories about Russia getting ruined are doing nothing except spreading disinformation and undermining
truthful discourse in general.
Jonas!
yes he is an idiot.
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Russia will now control more of the world's food, which will make It even more difficult to isolate them.
Boy!!! talk about sick! So now your excited that a NAZI dictator would control so much of the world food supply. Now move this forward twenty years and think the type of life your children would face.
Are you an idiot also trying to make it about me, while mischaracterizing my level of 'excitement'? Realty is Russia is on course to control more of the world resources. Westward efforts of expansion in his region are failing and backfiring. Your fake stories about Russia getting ruined are doing nothing except spreading disinformation and undermining
truthful discourse in general.
Jonas!
IF Russian were to control all of Ukraine they would be the fourth largest producer of cereals. This is not even half of the the production of the country in third place.
Based on the actions during the Holdomor I would be uncomfortable for the local population though.
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Russia will now control more of the world's food, which will make It even more difficult to isolate them.
Boy!!! talk about sick! So now your excited that a NAZI dictator would control so much of the world food supply. Now move this forward twenty years and think the type of life your children would face.
Are you an idiot also trying to make it about me, while mischaracterizing my level of 'excitement'? Realty is Russia is on course to control more of the world resources. Westward efforts of expansion in his region are failing and backfiring. Your fake stories about Russia getting ruined are doing nothing except spreading disinformation and undermining
truthful discourse in general.
Jonas!
IF Russian were to control all of Ukraine they would be the fourth largest producer of cereals. This is not even half of the the production of the country in third place.
Based on the actions during the Holdomor I would be uncomfortable for the local population though.
Yes nevertheless it is a bankable commodity that Russia will control more of. I do think Russia is capable of using food as a weapon though if need be. Personally I think they will use any weapon or potential weapon at their disposal.
Jonas!
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Jonas!, Russia shows no signs of using food as a weapon. They are working with countries to enable transfers of grain and other foodstuffs to those markets.
Do not forget that the current difficulties are due to the actions of the collective west (a small subset of the world's population).
But you are correct, food has been weaponised - but not by Russia. The weaponisation may have been an unintended consequence of foolish actions, western sanctions, but the effects are real and have a direct causal factor.
As an aside, food shortages in the USSR in the early part of the 20th century were also due to western sanctions! There is a modern parallel in Ukraine today. Ukraine is busily exporting as much grain as it can into Europe in exchange for cash. In the case of the USSR, grain was exported to the west because of sanctions on the USSR that made it almost impossible for the state to obtain necessary foreign exchange except through grain sales.
Will we see food shortages in rump Ukraine later in the year? I hope not, but the mechanism to cause it is already working.
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As an aside, food shortages in the USSR in the early part of the 20th century were also due to western sanctions!
Please explain.
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Russia shows no signs of using food as a weapon.
Why Russia is being accused of using food as a weapon of war
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/10/europe/food-grain-crisis-ukraine-russia-intl/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/08/russia-is-weaponizing-food-supplies-to-blackmail-the-world.html
Russia is weaponizing food supplies to ‘blackmail the world’
UN: Russia using food as weapon of war
https://www.axios.com/2022/04/17/un-ukraine-food-weapon-war-russia
This is how Russia is using food as a weapon of war in Ukraine
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-using-food-weapon-war-135007921.html
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My wife has been reading that women are now being forced to join the military. Ages between 16 and 50.
Can any one confirm or deny this??
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Westcoast, before repeating twaddle, why not fact check yourself?
This stuff is not hard. You were before having to leave your job a high flying banker, were you not?
Were yiu not trained to do at least the kind of analysis that most university students learn?
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Westcoast, before repeating twaddle, why not fact check yourself?
This stuff is not hard. You were before having to leave your job a high flying banker, were you not?
Were yiu not trained to do at least the kind of analysis that most university students learn?
Please Andy tell me where I'm wrong or will this be the limit of your post?
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The below is a list of books regarding Ukraine. I admit I only have read a few. Some seem fascinating. The list was compiled by The New York City public library.
The eyes of the world are on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, leaving many with questions about the circumstances that led to what is now the largest conflict to erupt in Europe since World War II," said Bogdan Horbal, the curator for Slavic & Easter European collections at the NYPL and the creator of the book list, in an official statement. "This list of books was created to provide you with the tools to understand the history of Ukraine and the factors that have led to today."
Some of the highlighted titles are available through the library's circulating catalogs while others are accessible through the research catalog (therefore available for onsite use only at the Stephen A. Schwarzman Building by Bryant Park).
We reproduce the full list, which you can also find here, below:
General Works on Ukraine
Borderland: A Journey Through the History of Ukraine by Anna Reid
The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine by Serhii Plokhy
Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine by Tim Judah
The Ukrainians: Unexpected Nation by Andrew Wilson
Ukraine: What Everyone Needs to Know by Serhy Yekelchyk
The Battle for Ukrainian: A Comparative Perspective Edited by Michael S. Flier and Andrea Graziosi
The Cossack Myth: History and Nationhood in the Age of Empires by Serhii Plokhy
Culture, Nation, and Identity: The Ukrainian-Russian Encounter, 1600-1945 Edited by Andreas Kappeler, Zenon Kohut, Frank Sysyn, and Mark von Hagen
The Frontline: Essays on Ukraine's Past and Present by Serhii Plokhy
The Future of the Past: New Perspectives on Ukrainian History Edited by Serhii Plokhy
A History of Ukraine: The Land and Its Peoples by Paul Robert Magocsi
Making Ukraine Soviet: Literature and Cultural Politics Under Lenin and Stalin by Olena Palko
Revolutionary Ukraine, 1917-2017: History's Flashpoints and Today's Memory Wars by Myroslav Shkandrij
Russia and Ukraine: Literature and the Discourse of Empire from Napoleonic to Postcolonial Times by Myroslav Shkandrij
Total Wars and the Making of Modern Ukraine, 1914-1954 by George Liber
Ukraine and Europe: Cultural Encounters and Negotiations Edited by Giovanna Brogi Bercoff, Marko Pavlyshyn, and Serhii Plokhy
Ukraine: Contested Nationhood in a European Context by Ulrich Schmid
Ukraine in Histories and Stories: Essays by Ukrainian Intellectuals Edited by Volodymyr Yermolenko
Ukraine, the Middle East, and the West by Thomas M. Prymak
Post 1991 Developments
Roots of Russia's War in Ukraine by Elizabeth A. Wood, William E. Pomeranz, E. Wayne Merry, and Maxim Trudolyubov
Ukraine and the Art of Strategy by Lawrence Freedman
Ukraine: A Nation on the Borderland by Karl Schlögel
Ukraine Over the Edge: Russia, the West and the "New Cold War" by Gordon M. Hahn
In Wartime: Stories from Ukraine by Tim Judah
Decentralization, Regional Diversity, and Conflict: The Case of Ukraine Edited by Hanna Shelest and Maryna Rabinovych
Language of Conflict: Discourses of the Ukrainian Crisis Edited by Natalia Knoblock
Normalizing Corruption: Failures of Accountability in Ukraine by Erik S. Herron
Religion During the Russian-Ukrainian Conflict Edited by Elizabeth Clark and Dmytro Vovk
Ukraine and the Empire of Capital: From Marketisation to Armed Conflict by Yuliya Yurchenko
Ukraine and Russia: From Civilized Divorce to Uncivil War by Paul D'Anieri
Ukraine in the Crossfire by Chris Kaspar de Ploeg
Ukraine's Euromaidan: Analyses of a Civil Revolution Edited by David R. Marples and Frederick V. Mills
Ukraine's Maidan, Russia's War: A Chronicle and Analysis of the Revolution of Dignity by Mychailo Wynnyckyj
Ukraine's Quest for Identity: Embracing Cultural Hybridity in Literary Imagination, 1991-2011 by Maria G. Rewakowicz
Ukrainian Women Writers and the National Imaginary: From the Collapse of the USSR to the Euromaidan by Oleksandra Wallo
A War of Songs: Popular Music and Recent Russia-Ukraine Relations by Arve Hansen, Andrei Rogatchevski, Yngvar Steinholt, and David-Emil Wickström
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Russia shows no signs of using food as a weapon.
Why Russia is being accused of using food as a weapon of war
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/10/europe/food-grain-crisis-ukraine-russia-intl/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/08/russia-is-weaponizing-food-supplies-to-blackmail-the-world.html
Russia is weaponizing food supplies to ‘blackmail the world’
UN: Russia using food as weapon of war
https://www.axios.com/2022/04/17/un-ukraine-food-weapon-war-russia
This is how Russia is using food as a weapon of war in Ukraine
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-using-food-weapon-war-135007921.html
WADR, not exactly credible sources. Nothing from Rachel Madow? ;D
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Russia shows no signs of using food as a weapon.
Why Russia is being accused of using food as a weapon of war
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/10/europe/food-grain-crisis-ukraine-russia-intl/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/08/russia-is-weaponizing-food-supplies-to-blackmail-the-world.html
Russia is weaponizing food supplies to ‘blackmail the world’
UN: Russia using food as weapon of war
https://www.axios.com/2022/04/17/un-ukraine-food-weapon-war-russia
This is how Russia is using food as a weapon of war in Ukraine
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-using-food-weapon-war-135007921.html
WADR, not exactly credible sources. Nothing from Rachel Madow? ;D
Why don't you provide sources that say Russia isn't using food as a weapon? No Russian or Chinese sources.
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Westcoast, before repeating twaddle, why not fact check yourself?
This stuff is not hard. You were before having to leave your job a high flying banker, were you not?
Were yiu not trained to do at least the kind of analysis that most university students learn?
Please Andy tell me where I'm wrong or will this be the limit of your post?
Typical Andy. Drops by to insult and then runs and hides.
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It's being rumored that the United States will be building grain silos in Poland, along with other plans to transport the Ukrainian wheat through Poland.
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It's being rumored that the United States will be building grain silos in Poland, along with other plans to transport the Ukrainian wheat through Poland.
Anyone know how long it takes to clear land, build grain silos and all the other associated infrastructure?
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It's being rumored that the United States will be building grain silos in Poland, along with other plans to transport the Ukrainian wheat through Poland.
Anyone know how long it takes to clear land, build grain silos and all the other associated infrastructure?
This is a guess but a full sized silo such as you see in Canada or America from clearing the land to usage is 18 to 24 months. Once in Kansas I was given a tour of a silo complex, it is far more intricate and complex than some assume.
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It's being rumored that the United States will be building grain silos in Poland, along with other plans to transport the Ukrainian wheat through Poland.
Anyone know how long it takes to clear land, build grain silos and all the other associated infrastructure?
This is a guess but a full sized silo such as you see in Canada or America from clearing the land to usage is 18 to 24 months. Once in Kansas I was given a tour of a silo complex, it is far more intricate and complex than some assume.
From what I had heard, current grain would be transported through Poland for shipment . The silos would be for future storage that Russia would not be able to steal it, or restrict shipment.
It would seem a valid solution if done correctly
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Why don't you provide sources that say Russia isn't using food as a weapon? No Russian or Chinese sources.
Ok, this is known as "deflecting". The answer to using bad sources is not to challenge someone to provide better ones. I'ts to go back and provide credible sources.
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Sadly, these silos, if they are constructed will be to contain Ukrainian grain to be taken as payment for the Lend-Lease program. It is rather unlikely that the grain will reach the people who most need it.
IIRC I discussed this briefly either upthread or elsewhere. I noted that this is very similar to the situation imposed on the USSR that was the base cause of the famines that ravaged the USSR during the early part of the 20th century.
So, no, it is not a solution.
Also, on a practical note, it is rather hard to use trucks to replace ships for the shipment of grains in bulk. it is why ships and barges are used.
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this vid outlines some possible outcomes of the war for Ukraine
shortish 9 min vid
essentially, no good ones, even if they win the majority of their future counter attacks
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And winning their counterattacks is not a thing that's going to happen.
Right now, Ukraine is following a foolish, nieve and rather evil strategy. They seem to be trying to fight for a stronger negotiating position. That comes from the Ukrainian leadership as well as statements from the foreign leaders who are bankrolling the conflict.
It's foolish because the strategy is not working. Nieve because unless they are wining there can be no improvement in negotiating position and if they were winning it would be foolish to negotiate from a position where giving up a degree if territory and political independence. Its evil because good people are being knowingly condemned to death or ruined lives for no purpose.
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Overall nicely done. :8)
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Why don't you provide sources that say Russia isn't using food as a weapon? No Russian or Chinese sources.
Ok, this is known as "deflecting". The answer to using bad sources is not to challenge someone to provide better ones. I'ts to go back and provide credible sources.
Deflecting would be if I didn't provide any sources or provided sources that weren't on point. I provided 4 sources that covered Russia using food as a weapon. You still haven't provided any sources saying my sources are questionable.
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Why don't you provide sources that say Russia isn't using food as a weapon? No Russian or Chinese sources.
Ok, this is known as "deflecting". The answer to using bad sources is not to challenge someone to provide better ones. I'ts to go back and provide credible sources.
Deflecting would be if I didn't provide any sources or provided sources that weren't on point. I provided 4 sources that covered Russia using food as a weapon. You still haven't provided any sources saying my sources are questionable.
I say Russia will use whatever is available to use. the USA essentially does the same thing when it impoverishes a populace through sanctions and they wind up with the poorest fighting for food or malnourished, Venezuela, north Korea.
Jonas!
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Why don't you provide sources that say Russia isn't using food as a weapon? No Russian or Chinese sources.
Ok, this is known as "deflecting". The answer to using bad sources is not to challenge someone to provide better ones. I'ts to go back and provide credible sources.
Deflecting would be if I didn't provide any sources or provided sources that weren't on point. I provided 4 sources that covered Russia using food as a weapon. You still haven't provided any sources saying my sources are questionable.
I say Russia will use whatever is available to use. the USA essentially does the same thing when it impoverishes a populace through sanctions and they wind up with the poorest fighting for food or malnourished, Venezuela, north Korea.
Jonas!
Russia will do just like the USSR did with the Warsaw Pact countries. In 1968 the USSR and other Warsaw Pact countries invaded Czechoslovakia to halt reforms begun by Alexander Dubček a Communist Party official in Czechoslovakian government.
From the linked article:
The Prague Spring reforms were a strong attempt by Dubček to grant additional rights to the citizens of Czechoslovakia in an act of partial decentralization of the economy and democratization. The freedoms granted included a loosening of restrictions on the media, speech and travel. After national discussion of dividing the country into a federation of three republics, Bohemia, Moravia-Silesia and Slovakia, Dubček oversaw the decision to split into two, the Czech Socialist Republic and Slovak Socialist Republic. This dual federation was the only formal change that survived the invasion.
In the end smaller countries usually end up having to serve a large country's interest. When the USSR collapsed all the smaller western countries of the former USSR ran to join the EU. I wonder why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring#Soviet_reaction
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Why don't you provide sources that say Russia isn't using food as a weapon? No Russian or Chinese sources.
Ok, this is known as "deflecting". The answer to using bad sources is not to challenge someone to provide better ones. I'ts to go back and provide credible sources.
Deflecting would be if I didn't provide any sources or provided sources that weren't on point. I provided 4 sources that covered Russia using food as a weapon. You still haven't provided any sources saying my sources are questionable.
I say Russia will use whatever is available to use. the USA essentially does the same thing when it impoverishes a populace through sanctions and they wind up with the poorest fighting for food or malnourished, Venezuela, north Korea.
Jonas!
I think it would be better to just leave the idiot to speak to himself .. if no one answered him maybe ehe will just ************** after a while..
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/16/us-aware-americans-captured-russia-ukraine-war
Two Americans were captured by Russia.
It's looking like Ukraine could lose Severodonesk, but in return retake control of Kherson
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Pretty interesting - Ukrainian defense industry
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A sobering assessment of Ukraines status VS the Russian war:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home
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A sobering assessment of Ukraines status VS the Russian war:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home
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Thank you for the article.
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A sobering assessment of Ukraines status VS the Russian war:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home
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24 June 2022 update: :duh:
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And another update :(
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It's looking like the propaganda is becoming harder to spin and the true plight of Ukraine and its heroic defenders is about to unfold. If one were to believe the news, as Texan77 does, we'd think that Russia is falling apart and their armed forces decimated. They've no doubt taken a hit but that's nothing compared to Ukraine or the poor sods fighting for Ukraine.
War is evil and war is messy. Nobody wins a war without suffering losses but I've maintained all along, the positive spin on Ukraines position was nothing more than hype and good old fashioned propaganda. How better to keep us neutral tax payers happy than sell us stories of victory and glory........more lies from our press and politicians I say. The reality is, Russia will get what they want, Ukraine will be destroyed, the West gets its proxy war and us neutral tax payers suffer inflation, rising costs of living and possible recession.
It's clearly much better telling us that Zelensky is a good guy and our sacrifice is helping the good guys beat the villains.....at my own expense.
"Ukraine war: 80% of troops killed or injured in elite military unit, says commander - and its future is unclear"
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-80-of-troops-killed-or-injured-in-elite-military-unit-says-commander-and-its-future-is-unclear-12639752
"Ukraine news live: War 'turning in Russia's favour' - as Putin to make first foreign trip since invasion"
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-news-live-mariupol-donbas-putin-zelenskyy-latest-12541713
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
Because that wouldn't escalate things much.
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
Because that wouldn't escalate things much.
Rosco why do you think Putin's having his military hit civilian targets? Putin's hoping this tactic will pressure the Ukrainian government into surrendering.
If the Ukrainian military had the ability to have its military hit targets hundreds of miles into Russia the same pressure could be exerted on Russia. At a minimum it might say to Russia, back off or we hit back harder.
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
Because that wouldn't escalate things much.
Rosco why do you think Putin's having his military hit civilian targets? Putin's hoping this tactic will pressure the Ukrainian government into surrendering.
If the Ukrainian military had the ability to have its military hit targets hundreds of miles into Russia the same pressure could be exerted on Russia. At a minimum it might say to Russia, back off or we hit back harder.
No good fighting options for Ukraine. I suspect they get weapons like you describe and lob them into Russia and Russia levels Kiev or another city.
As it stands Russia probably gives Ukraine option to surrender. they will have to surrender at some point anyway, only a question of how many dead or mangled first.
Options only worsen over time.
Jonas!
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
Because that wouldn't escalate things much.
Rosco why do you think Putin's having his military hit civilian targets? Putin's hoping this tactic will pressure the Ukrainian government into surrendering.
If the Ukrainian military had the ability to have its military hit targets hundreds of miles into Russia the same pressure could be exerted on Russia. At a minimum it might say to Russia, back off or we hit back harder.
Or Russia will also escalate, ukraine meeds to bakance how much more they can take and surrender. Getting Russia to withdraw is no longer an option
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I very much doubt that the Russians said, 'hmmm, what shall we do today? I know, let's kill us some civilians in a shopping mall!'
That does not fit with how they have been operating.
However, in previous similar cases, what we later discovered was that the Ukrainian army had been using shopping malls as storage and marshaling areas. We also found that missiles were launched at times when civilians would be much less likley to be present.
Is that the case here? Let's see.
Of course, it very much suits the Ukrainian propaganda to deny any military presence and make claims about civilians. Usually, those claims have been false.
Of course, for the 6th graders present, the ability to examine context and recent history is lacking. But it'd be wrong for me to suggest, without knowing more, that the Russians have changed their strategy or that a targeting error did not take place.
I'm interested in learning and so prefer to keep an open mind until I have more information. Some might prefer to jump to conclusions that, in one or more ways, are almost certainly incorrect.
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
So your preference is to see as many Ukrainians die as possible.
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
So your preference is to see as many Ukrainians die as possible.
The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia. Right now Russia is certainly killing as many Ukrainian civilians as possible to try to force Ukraine to surrender.
Why not give Ukraine the chance to kill as many Russians as possible with long range artillery and long range missiles?
Yankee during WW2 during the siege of Moscow? Moscow didn't surrender no matter how many Soviets the Germans killed. Should the Soviets have surrendered to avoid more bloodshed?
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Multiple rockets shot by Russia hit a mall full of shoppers in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. It's time that the US or one of its allies gave the Ukrainian military missile systems capable of hitting Russian targets hundreds of miles beyond Ukraine's borders.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/scenes-horror-putin-hits-mall-151404362.html
that would probably be a mistake I think. some Ukrainian hothead would send one to Moscow at a civilian target and then we could see a worse escalation. so far, the propaganda has been painting the Ukrainians as the martyrs. an attack by Ukraine on a Russian non military target would change that narrative quickly
as for why attack Kiev civilians...
the Mrs. said that there was some kind of military target near the apartment buildings. she has different sources than me (Russian and Ukrainian).
Al Jezeera said the missiles hit in the Shevchenkivskiy district. I was not able to find anything military in the area (a just about meaningless statement by me, I know) the report (on utube) further stated that the missiles hit in the early morning, 06:30 (not "launched at times when civilians would be much less likley to be present" per andrewfi). also, they reported another missile strike on a nearby apartment building a month or so earlier (perhaps lending credence to a nearby military target).
the Mayor of Kiev Vitali Klitschko has said was aimed to “intimidate Ukrainians… at the approach of the NATO summit” (another plausible explanation)
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
Then why won't Russia submit to the EU? Look at the Baltic states living under EU rules. Their infrastructure has been vastly improved and they're living fantastic lives with freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If Russia would submit to the EU. Russian lives would be greatly improved. Russian infrastructure would be greatly upgraded and they'd be living in a far less corrupt environment. Russian citizens would have freedom of movement throughout the EU.
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
Hmmm...
Have you by any chance ever read the EU/Ukraine Partnership Agreement? Probably not, most people haven't, including Ukrainians. I have. Yeah, I'm a bit of a nerd for this stuff.
Anyway, if one wanted to write a document to outline the vassalage of a state and its people to a more powerful master, then one might use that 'agreement' as a template. One might further beef it up by describing the people as peons or slaves and defining droit du seigneur. But Ukraine was required to give EU states, businesses and armed forces pretty much unfettered access to Ukrainian resources and market while absolutely restricting the ability of Ukraine to benefit economically from the association with the EU by imposing quotas and restrictions on exports from the Ukraine to the EU.
The economist in me saw a document that outlined the deindustrialization of Ukraine, turning the country into a largely agrarian economy with some exports of primary raw materials and, of course, a cheap labour force. It was very different to what Ukraine enjoyed with Russia and very different to what the people were told.
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By the way, to help people who cannot help themselves. The missile was reported at 06:30 I believe.
Here are the opening times for the large malls in the area:
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+do+shopping+malls+open+in+kremenchuk+ukraine&newwindow=1&sxsrf=ALiCzsbn5wavaNDQBF-TBVhI0-C6w0tP5A%3A1656357543972&ei=pwK6YqD5OsKQrgSQyr2YCg&ved=0ahUKEwjg6J3YrM74AhVCiIsKHRBlD6MQ4dUDCA4&oq=what+time+do+shopping+mals+open+in+kremenshk+ukraine&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAxKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFgAYABoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQA&sclient=gws-wiz
TL/DR that's about 2.5 hours before opening time. Has anyone working in a shopping mall ever seen how busy those places are that long before opening?
Yup, that's right, they are deserted - apart from the soldiers billeted in the underground loading docks and the engineers checking the weapons systems ready for later deployment.
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as for why attack Kiev civilians...
the Mrs. said that there was some kind of military target near the apartment buildings. she has different sources than me (Russian and Ukrainian).
Al Jezeera said the missiles hit in the Shevchenkivskiy district. I was not able to find anything military in the area (a just about meaningless statement by me, I know) the report (on utube) further stated that the missiles hit in the early morning, 06:30 (not "launched at times when civilians would be much less likley to be present" per andrewfi). also, they reported another missile strike on a nearby apartment building a month or so earlier (perhaps lending credence to a nearby military target).
the Mayor of Kiev Vitali Klitschko has said was aimed to “intimidate Ukrainians… at the approach of the NATO summit” (another plausible explanation)
there is purported to be the Artem defense plant behind/around the apartment buildings that were hit by the 2 Russian missiles
https://www.google.com/maps/place/50%C2%B027'45.7%22N+30%C2%B029'12.0%22E/@50.4626861,30.4844891,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x96dbcdd96edd4b26!8m2!3d50.4626861!4d30.4866778
...info from Quora and a former Russian soldier, VDV (if that source can be trusted?)
I still can not find any evidence of a military structure or factory (again, almost meaningless. how would I recognize a factory among a bunch of civilian apartments in Kiev?). I used google map to look see with the street view. maybe someone with Ukrainian language capability can read some building signs.
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By the way, to help people who cannot help themselves. The missile was reported at 06:30 I believe.
Here are the opening times for the large malls in the area:
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+do+shopping+malls+open+in+kremenchuk+ukraine&newwindow=1&sxsrf=ALiCzsbn5wavaNDQBF-TBVhI0-C6w0tP5A%3A1656357543972&ei=pwK6YqD5OsKQrgSQyr2YCg&ved=0ahUKEwjg6J3YrM74AhVCiIsKHRBlD6MQ4dUDCA4&oq=what+time+do+shopping+mals+open+in+kremenshk+ukraine&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAxKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFgAYABoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQA&sclient=gws-wiz
TL/DR that's about 2.5 hours before opening time. Has anyone working in a shopping mall ever seen how busy those places are that long before opening?
Yup, that's right, they are deserted - apart from the soldiers billeted in the underground loading docks and the engineers checking the weapons systems ready for later deployment.
6:30AM where'd you get that time from? Sources?
Here are my sources they say the missiles hit the mall at 4:00PM. Have you been in a mall at 4:00PM. Usually pretty busy.
If you look at the Al Jazeera (2nd link) YT video you'll see the time in the bottom left corner showing about 15:00 GMT. Do the math and see what the local time is for Ukraine. It is about 17:00 in Ukraine.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-missiles-hit-kremenchuk-shopping-center-1000-civilians-ukraine-rcna35482
Here's a undated photo of the mall. If anyone know Kremenchuk they might be able to identify the mall hit.
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/06/before.jpg
https://nypost.com/2022/06/27/russian-missiles-strike-crowned-ukrainian-mall/
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By the way, to help people who cannot help themselves. The missile was reported at 06:30 I believe.
Here are the opening times for the large malls in the area:
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+do+shopping+malls+open+in+kremenchuk+ukraine&newwindow=1&sxsrf=ALiCzsbn5wavaNDQBF-TBVhI0-C6w0tP5A%3A1656357543972&ei=pwK6YqD5OsKQrgSQyr2YCg&ved=0ahUKEwjg6J3YrM74AhVCiIsKHRBlD6MQ4dUDCA4&oq=what+time+do+shopping+mals+open+in+kremenshk+ukraine&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAxKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFgAYABoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQA&sclient=gws-wiz
TL/DR that's about 2.5 hours before opening time. Has anyone working in a shopping mall ever seen how busy those places are that long before opening?
Yup, that's right, they are deserted - apart from the soldiers billeted in the underground loading docks and the engineers checking the weapons systems ready for later deployment.
well that 06:30 missile strike was on apartment buildings. so why are you mentioning a shopping mall?
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
Then why won't Russia submit to the EU? Look at the Baltic states living under EU rules. Their infrastructure has been vastly improved and they're living fantastic lives with freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If Russia would submit to the EU. Russian lives would be greatly improved. Russian infrastructure would be greatly upgraded and they'd be living in a far less corrupt environment. Russian citizens would have freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If everything was the way you described, why wouldn't' Russia 'submit' I guess it isn't an accurate description of reality. I'll assume Russia knows what is best for Russia and act in their own best interests
Jonas!
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Russia is certainly killing as many Ukrainian civilians as possible to try to force Ukraine to surrender.
You can't possibly believe this is an accurate statement.
Jonas!
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
Then why won't Russia submit to the EU? Look at the Baltic states living under EU rules. Their infrastructure has been vastly improved and they're living fantastic lives with freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If Russia would submit to the EU. Russian lives would be greatly improved. Russian infrastructure would be greatly upgraded and they'd be living in a far less corrupt environment. Russian citizens would have freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If everything was the way you described, why wouldn't' Russia 'submit' I guess it isn't an accurate description of reality. I'll assume Russia knows what is best for Russia and act in their own best interests
Jonas!
Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
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Russia is certainly killing as many Ukrainian civilians as possible to try to force Ukraine to surrender.
You can't possibly believe this is an accurate statement.
Jonas!
It's a well known tactic in war to cause as much hardship and death to the civilian population in the hopes of getting the public opinion to act on surrendering to the enemy.
Remember what Putin did to Grozny? Reduced the city to rubble. If Putin reduced Grozny to rubble why wouldn't he do it to cities in Ukraine?
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
that is true, it is Ukraine's decision to carry on and fight. they will continue to suffer the consequences of fighting a losing battle. When all is said and done, years from now, I'll be curious to see what type of pressures they were receiving from the US and EU.
Jonas!
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Russia is certainly killing as many Ukrainian civilians as possible to try to force Ukraine to surrender.
You can't possibly believe this is an accurate statement.
Jonas!
It's a well known tactic in war to cause as much hardship and death to the civilian population in the hopes of getting the public opinion to act on surrendering to the enemy.
Remember what Putin did to Grozny? Reduced the city to rubble. If Putin reduced Grozny to rubble why wouldn't he do it to cities in Ukraine?
Yes, but currently your statement isn't accurate. Russia is not inflicting the number of casualties they could if they went in 4 square. Before it all ends hey might though....
Jonas!
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Russia is certainly killing as many Ukrainian civilians as possible to try to force Ukraine to surrender.
You can't possibly believe this is an accurate statement.
Jonas!
It's a well known tactic in war to cause as much hardship and death to the civilian population in the hopes of getting the public opinion to act on surrendering to the enemy.
Remember what Putin did to Grozny? Reduced the city to rubble. If Putin reduced Grozny to rubble why wouldn't he do it to cities in Ukraine?
Yes, but currently your statement isn't accurate. Russia is not inflicting the number of casualties they could if they went in 4 square. Before it all ends hey might though....
Jonas!
Maybe. As we've seen much of the Russian military equipment in Ukraine is crap. It's also possible that it'll take some time to bring the needed equipment to the front lines.
Russia has equipment stored all over the country. This equipment has to be brought out of storage and put in working order and then transported to Ukraine. That'll take time. Then of course Russia needs the soldiers to operate the equipment. Again that'll take time.
If as many analysts are now saying Putin thought his war in Ukraine would be a cake walk, Putin probably didn't set plans in motion to mobilize large numbers of soldiers and military equipment.
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
that is true, it is Ukraine's decision to carry on and fight. they will continue to suffer the consequences of fighting a losing battle. When all is said and done, years from now, I'll be curious to see what type of pressures they were receiving from the US and EU.
Jonas!
What appears to be the very obvious case here is, Ukraine always knew they stand no chance against an all out war with Russia, especially not without any western support. That is well illustrated today. So all the urging, and all the cheering with the silly sanctions (which backfired right back in the US/Europe's faces) - all that stupidity only amounted to thousands of casualties on both sides. Delusions of grandeur.
Despite this, Zelensky continues to be the royal stooge and sacrifices still his country and its citizens by bucking over to the West's whim. Thousands dead and lost territories, and he's still adhering to the UK's bidding to continue the slaughter of his people. (https://uawire.org/ukrainian-media-johnson-tells-zelensky-to-stop-negotiations-with-putin-and-fight-russia-to-a-victorious-end)
What a stupid stooge Zelensky really is. If this is really what this idiot want for his country, having others urge him to sacrifice his people, let the stooge have at it, and let its people die for choosing a clown to lead them to the slaughter house.
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
that is true, it is Ukraine's decision to carry on and fight. they will continue to suffer the consequences of fighting a losing battle. When all is said and done, years from now, I'll be curious to see what type of pressures they were receiving from the US and EU.
Jonas!
What appears to be the very obvious case here is, Ukraine always knew they stand no chance against an all out war with Russia, especially not without any western support. That is well illustrated today. So all the urging, and all the cheering with the silly sanctions (which backfired right back in the US/Europe's faces) - all that stupidity only amounted to thousands of casualties on both sides. Delusions of grandeur.
Despite this, Zelensky continues to be the royal stooge and sacrifices still his country and its citizens by bucking over to the West's whim. Thousands dead and lost territories, and he's still adhering to the UK's bidding to continue the slaughter of his people. (https://uawire.org/ukrainian-media-johnson-tells-zelensky-to-stop-negotiations-with-putin-and-fight-russia-to-a-victorious-end)
What a stupid stooge Zelensky really is. If this is really what this idiot want for his country, having others urge him to sacrifice his people, let the stooge have at it, and let its people die for choosing a clown to lead them to the slaughter house.
Same can be said for Russia except Russia isn't losing civilians to death. Russian civilians are now fleeing Russia. The BBC article refers to it as a brain drain.
Now Russia's forced to rely on China for money and tech. Make no mistake the longer Russia is forced to rely on China the more Russia is going to become subservient to China. Not relying on China would mean Russia is the new hermit kingdom.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60697763
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as for why attack Kiev civilians...
the Mrs. said that there was some kind of military target near the apartment buildings. she has different sources than me (Russian and Ukrainian).
Al Jezeera said the missiles hit in the Shevchenkivskiy district. I was not able to find anything military in the area (a just about meaningless statement by me, I know) the report (on utube) further stated that the missiles hit in the early morning, 06:30 (not "launched at times when civilians would be much less likley to be present" per andrewfi). also, they reported another missile strike on a nearby apartment building a month or so earlier (perhaps lending credence to a nearby military target).
the Mayor of Kiev Vitali Klitschko has said was aimed to “intimidate Ukrainians… at the approach of the NATO summit” (another plausible explanation)
there is purported to be the Artem defense plant behind/around the apartment buildings that were hit by the 2 Russian missiles
https://www.google.com/maps/place/50%C2%B027'45.7%22N+30%C2%B029'12.0%22E/@50.4626861,30.4844891,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x96dbcdd96edd4b26!8m2!3d50.4626861!4d30.4866778
...info from Quora and a former Russian soldier, VDV (if that source can be trusted?)
I still can not find any evidence of a military structure or factory (again, almost meaningless. how would I recognize a factory among a bunch of civilian apartments in Kiev?). I used google map to look see with the street view. maybe someone with Ukrainian language capability can read some building signs.
The Artyom factory in Kiev was hit in April, so it is not functioning currently. The Artyom office in the Shevchenskyi district is not a factory.
I think the Kiev strike, and the one in Kremenchuk, deliberately targeted civilians as an "FU" to the G7 meeting.
Anyone who believes civilian deaths will cause Ukraine to capitulate doesn't know the Ukrainian mindset.
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
that is true, it is Ukraine's decision to carry on and fight. they will continue to suffer the consequences of fighting a losing battle. When all is said and done, years from now, I'll be curious to see what type of pressures they were receiving from the US and EU.
Jonas!
What appears to be the very obvious case here is, Ukraine always knew they stand no chance against an all out war with Russia, especially not without any western support. That is well illustrated today. So all the urging, and all the cheering with the silly sanctions (which backfired right back in the US/Europe's faces) - all that stupidity only amounted to thousands of casualties on both sides. Delusions of grandeur.
Despite this, Zelensky continues to be the royal stooge and sacrifices still his country and its citizens by bucking over to the West's whim. Thousands dead and lost territories, and he's still adhering to the UK's bidding to continue the slaughter of his people. (https://uawire.org/ukrainian-media-johnson-tells-zelensky-to-stop-negotiations-with-putin-and-fight-russia-to-a-victorious-end)
What a stupid stooge Zelensky really is. If this is really what this idiot want for his country, having others urge him to sacrifice his people, let the stooge have at it, and let its people die for choosing a clown to lead them to the slaughter house.
Same can be said for Russia except Russia isn't losing civilians to death. Russian civilians are now fleeing Russia. The BBC article refers to it as a brain drain.
Now Russia's forced to rely on China for money and tech. Make no mistake the longer Russia is forced to rely on China the more Russia is going to become subservient to China. Not relying on China would mean Russia is the new hermit kingdom.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60697763
Ukraine is literally flattened as a pancake. Tens of thousands of its citizens dead and blown to bits - every single gawd-awful day!
And there the likes of you, pre-occupied and subscribing to western media about some silly notion of Russia being subservient to China. Holy smokes!!!
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It's a well known tactic in war to cause as much hardship and death to the civilian population in the hopes of getting the public opinion to act on surrendering to the enemy.
Remember what Putin did to Grozny? Reduced the city to rubble. If Putin reduced Grozny to rubble why wouldn't he do it to cities in Ukraine?
I don't even understand what this point you keep bringing on up actually means. How does that compare to what the US/West, including Canada, did to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan?
Hell, Qadaffi gave up it's nukes, too and look what happened to him and his country courtesy of who else? Which included Canada.
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
You're making one big-ass assumption, that Ukraine is in control of Ukraine, which clearly is not true.
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It's a well known tactic in war to cause as much hardship and death to the civilian population in the hopes of getting the public opinion to act on surrendering to the enemy.
Remember what Putin did to Grozny? Reduced the city to rubble. If Putin reduced Grozny to rubble why wouldn't he do it to cities in Ukraine?
I don't even understand what this point you keep bringing on up actually means. How does that compare to what the US/West, including Canada, did to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan?
Hell, Qadaffi gave up it's nukes, too and look what happened to him and his country courtesy of who else? Which included Canada.
Why should Ukraine submit to Russia?
It's real simple to understand. Putin reduced Grozny to rubble. The thousands of civilians killed in Grozny by Putin were Russian civilians.
Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country so he wouldn't feel as bad to kill tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in war to gain control of Ukraine.
I personally did not think Canada or the US should have gone into Afghanistan or Iraq (Canada didn't go into Iraq) was a good idea however for some reason I wasn't consulted.
I guess Ukraine shouldn't have given up its nukes. Maybe a group of computer nerds could have figured out some way to allow the Ukrainian government to gain control of the nukes?
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
You're making one big-ass assumption, that Ukraine is in control of Ukraine, which clearly is not true.
The Netherlands government is not in control of the Netherlands. The Netherlands is run by the EU with some token responsibilities given to the Netherlands government.
The Russian people have little input into the running of Russia. Putin and a few select individuals run Russia for now. As I've said before the longer Russia has to rely on China the more likely it is that over time China will have a pro China government in the Kremlin.
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
You're making one big-ass assumption, that Ukraine is in control of Ukraine, which clearly is not true.
The Netherlands government is not in control of the Netherlands. The Netherlands is run by the EU with some token responsibilities given to the Netherlands government.
The Russian people have little input into the running of Russia. Putin and a few select individuals run Russia for now. As I've said before the longer Russia has to rely on China the more likely it is that over time China will have a pro China government in the Kremlin.
I'd say that the Netherlands gov't has better control over the country than the US government at this point. Painful truth isn't it, but this is not about either countries, this is about Ukraine.
Parts of Ukraine are in foreign control, Some quite brutal and literal like the Donbass. some peaceful and with a willing populace like Crimea, and some facilities that ought to be in Ukraine gov't are in Foreign gov't control (power, hospitals, water supply, etc.). And then there's the war raging on with a neighbour because you have a few select powerful Ukrainians that do not let Zelensky surrender, because right now that would be the best for ukraine. Work diplomacy with other powerful countries to get Russia back across their border.
WE've all seen what happens when this continues, it happened to Israel/Palestina. Israel now controls huge parts of palestina and all they can do is fire makeshift amateur rockets at them.
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
Then why won't Russia submit to the EU? Look at the Baltic states living under EU rules. Their infrastructure has been vastly improved and they're living fantastic lives with freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If Russia would submit to the EU. Russian lives would be greatly improved. Russian infrastructure would be greatly upgraded and they'd be living in a far less corrupt environment. Russian citizens would have freedom of movement throughout the EU.
It's literally a waste of life, responding to your silly posts. I was about to counter your questions up thread but you'll then follow that up with more silliness.
If you think that the west should arm Ukraine with long range missiles, so they can rain them down on civilians all over Russia and that this is a good idea, then you're living on another planet.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this isn't about what's fair because its war. Right now the focus should be on de-escalation, peace and the saving of lives, even if it means giving something up in the short term. We can literally see the end and it looks like continued death and destruction until Russia wins.
You constantly champion situations where things escalate because it would be fair. I suspect you might feel very different if it was your life being used for fodder.
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The other option is surrender and have Ukraine become a vassal state of Russia or actually become part of Russia.
Yes, and.....
Earlier on a vassal state may not have been that bad for them. Ukrainians were alive, plenty of food, and shelter and had freedom to move elsewhere.
Now many dead, many more homeless, disabled, in bad shape.
West helped egg this on, knowing the likely result, but trying to surround and contain Russia was deemed more important. that way we could pay a little less for resources over the next few decades...it is backfiring.
Jonas!
Then why won't Russia submit to the EU? Look at the Baltic states living under EU rules. Their infrastructure has been vastly improved and they're living fantastic lives with freedom of movement throughout the EU.
If Russia would submit to the EU. Russian lives would be greatly improved. Russian infrastructure would be greatly upgraded and they'd be living in a far less corrupt environment. Russian citizens would have freedom of movement throughout the EU.
It's literally a waste of life, responding to your silly posts. I was about to counter your questions up thread but you'll then follow that up with more silliness.
If you think that the west should arm Ukraine with long range missiles, so they can rain them down on civilians all over Russia and that this is a good idea, then you're living on another planet.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this isn't about what's fair because its war. Right now the focus should be on de-escalation, peace and the saving of lives, even if it means giving something up in the short term. We can literally see the end and it looks like continued death and destruction until Russia wins.
You constantly champion situations where things escalate because it would be fair. I suspect you might feel very different if it was your life being used for fodder.
rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
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Anyone who believes civilian deaths will cause Ukraine to capitulate doesn't know the Ukrainian mindset.
Some here understand the Ukrainian point of view.
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Wouldn't it also be true that Ukraine knows what's best for Ukraine and they'll act in their own best interests? Or do you think Andy, Manny, Rosco, you and others know what's best for Ukraine, more so than Ukrainians?
You're making one big-ass assumption, that Ukraine is in control of Ukraine, which clearly is not true.
The Netherlands government is not in control of the Netherlands. The Netherlands is run by the EU with some token responsibilities given to the Netherlands government.
The Russian people have little input into the running of Russia. Putin and a few select individuals run Russia for now. As I've said before the longer Russia has to rely on China the more likely it is that over time China will have a pro China government in the Kremlin.
I'd say that the Netherlands gov't has better control over the country than the US government at this point. Painful truth isn't it, but this is not about either countries, this is about Ukraine.
The Netherlands government answers to the EU. Who do you think the EU answers to?
Parts of Ukraine are in foreign control, Some quite brutal and literal like the Donbass. some peaceful and with a willing populace like Crimea, and some facilities that ought to be in Ukraine gov't are in Foreign gov't control (power, hospitals, water supply, etc.). And then there's the war raging on with a neighbour because you have a few select powerful Ukrainians that do not let Zelensky surrender, because right now that would be the best for ukraine. Work diplomacy with other powerful countries to get Russia back across their border.
Russia does not want to go back to Russia. Putin doesn't care about what any other world leader says. Putin wants Ukraine either as a vassal state like Belarus or as part of Russia.
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Anyone who believes civilian deaths will cause Ukraine to capitulate doesn't know the Ukrainian mindset.
Some here understand the Ukrainian point of view.
AvHdB who would that be?
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Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
Another statement not rooted in fact. Russia is not without tacit backers. Russia controls a lot of resources and always will. Even with the EU and US aligned against them for now, they are probably holding up better than we are.
Now that the bear has been awakened, over the course of your life, you are more likely to see Russia making gains...Asia too. the west is going to be at a distinct competitive disadvantage as we have alienated most oil producing countries. Of course, that may mean we are about due to concoct a reason to invade one in the near future since our sanctions are so much less effective than in decades past.
Jonas!
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Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
Another statement not rooted in fact. Russia is not without tacit backers. Russia controls a lot of resources and always will. Even with the EU and US aligned against them for now, they are probably holding up better than we are.
Now that the bear has been awakened, over the course of your life, you are more likely to see Russia making gains...Asia too. the west is going to be at a distinct competitive disadvantage as we have alienated most oil producing countries. Of course, that may mean we are about due to concoct a reason to invade one in the near future since our sanctions are so much less effective than in decades past.
Jonas!
Gains? Where? Yes Russia might take over Ukraine by force. I suppose Russia could take over the stans if they don't voluntarily join Russia. Is Russia going to invade the Baltic states?
Jonas why is it that when the USSR dissolved all the western members ran to join the EU and NATO? Why didn't European countries such as Germany, France, Sweden, etc move to join Russia?
Do you really think the Middle East oil producing countries want to be vassal states of Russia?
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there is purported to be the Artem defense plant behind/around the apartment buildings that were hit by the 2 Russian missiles
https://www.google.com/maps/place/50%C2%B027'45.7%22N+30%C2%B029'12.0%22E/@50.4626861,30.4844891,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x96dbcdd96edd4b26!8m2!3d50.4626861!4d30.4866778
...info from Quora and a former Russian soldier, VDV (if that source can be trusted?)
I still can not find any evidence of a military structure or factory (again, almost meaningless. how would I recognize a factory among a bunch of civilian apartments in Kiev?). I used google map to look see with the street view. maybe someone with Ukrainian language capability can read some building signs.
The Artyom factory in Kiev was hit in April, so it is not functioning currently. The Artyom office in the Shevchenskyi district is not a factory.
I think the Kiev strike, and the one in Kremenchuk, deliberately targeted civilians as an "FU" to the G7 meeting.
Anyone who believes civilian deaths will cause Ukraine to capitulate doesn't know the Ukrainian mindset.
thank you Halo, for the info.
your stated reason for the strike is a plausible one. seems the timing was right.
history has proven repeatedly that striking civilians has only hardened their resolve to resist. WW2 is a perfect example of this...Britain, Germany and Russia come to mind
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half a minute vid of the missile strikes
https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/27-june-cctv-video-of-russian-kh22-cruise-missile-strike
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Why should Ukraine submit to Russia?
Who the heck is saying Ukraine needs to submit to Russia? You're stuck on first gear.
It's real simple to understand. Putin reduced Grozny to rubble. The thousands of civilians killed in Grozny by Putin were Russian civilians.
Are you insinuating Libyans/Libya doesn't count because the west obliterated it? Iraq/Afghanistan/Yemen?
Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country so he wouldn't feel as bad to kill tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in war to gain control of Ukraine.
Link please.
I personally did not think Canada or the US should have gone into Afghanistan or Iraq (Canada didn't go into Iraq) was a good idea however for some reason I wasn't consulted.
You seem to be cheering for the west to continue its stupid urging for Ukraine to not seek a peaceful resolution to this conflict, and instead for some idealistic belief that somehow getting its citizenry slaughtered will 'actually Russia'. LMAO!
Do you even realize blokes like you who support this notion are causing the very same Grozny/Libya fate you pretend to abhor to fall upon Ukraine.
If you believe this is what Ukraine would like to live with, then they will definitely get it. You're no different than those know-it-alls who denied the US/west had nothing to do with the 2014 coup that started all these mess.
I guess Ukraine shouldn't have given up its nukes. Maybe a group of computer nerds could have figured out some way to allow the Ukrainian government to gain control of the nukes?
Yup. Again, Google Libya's plight.
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Why should Ukraine submit to Russia?
Who the heck is saying Ukraine needs to submit to Russia? You're stuck on first gear.
It's real simple to understand. Putin reduced Grozny to rubble. The thousands of civilians killed in Grozny by Putin were Russian civilians.
Are you insinuating Libyans/Libya doesn't count because the west obliterated it? Iraq/Afghanistan/Yemen?
Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country so he wouldn't feel as bad to kill tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in war to gain control of Ukraine.
Link please.
I personally did not think Canada or the US should have gone into Afghanistan or Iraq (Canada didn't go into Iraq) was a good idea however for some reason I wasn't consulted.
You seem to be cheering for the west to continue its stupid urging for Ukraine to not seek a peaceful resolution to this conflict, and instead for some idealistic belief that somehow getting its citizenry slaughtered will 'actually Russia'. LMAO!
Do you even realize blokes like you who support this notion are causing the very same Grozny/Libya fate you pretend to abhor to fall upon Ukraine.
If you believe this is what Ukraine would like to live with, then they will definitely get it. You're no different than those know-it-alls who denied the US/west had nothing to do with the 2014 coup that started all these mess.
I guess Ukraine shouldn't have given up its nukes. Maybe a group of computer nerds could have figured out some way to allow the Ukrainian government to gain control of the nukes?
Yup. Again, Google Libya's plight.
Members are saying Ukraine should surrender to Russian aggression, I choose the term submit.
I note you didn't answer the question about Grozny. You answer my qeustion about Grozny I'll answer yours about Libya.
Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country. You haven't heard Putin say this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/21/putin-speech-ukraine/
What type of peaceful resolution would Putin accept? A puppet government in Kiev?
Halo seems says "Anyone who believes civilian deaths will cause Ukraine to capitulate doesn't know the Ukrainian mindset." Reply #136 on: Today at 01:50:33 PM » Do you think you know more about Ukraine than Halo?
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IS CHINA REALLY ON RUSSIA'S SIDE? Look how much better life is for China if Russia loses.
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Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
Another statement not rooted in fact. Russia is not without tacit backers. Russia controls a lot of resources and always will. Even with the EU and US aligned against them for now, they are probably holding up better than we are.
Now that the bear has been awakened, over the course of your life, you are more likely to see Russia making gains...Asia too. the west is going to be at a distinct competitive disadvantage as we have alienated most oil producing countries. Of course, that may mean we are about due to concoct a reason to invade one in the near future since our sanctions are so much less effective than in decades past.
Jonas!
Gains? Where? Yes Russia might take over Ukraine by force. I suppose Russia could take over the stans if they don't voluntarily join Russia. Is Russia going to invade the Baltic states?
Jonas why is it that when the USSR dissolved all the western members ran to join the EU and NATO? Why didn't European countries such as Germany, France, Sweden, etc move to join Russia?
Do you really think the Middle East oil producing countries want to be vassal states of Russia?
As I mentioned your comment regarding EU and US 'winning' any confrontation with Russia isn't factual.
YOU are bringing up Russia attacking other countries. I'm talking about growing partnerships and spheres of influence leaving the west, and either going neural or going east.
Jonas!
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Members are saying Ukraine should surrender to Russian aggression, I choose the term submit.
Who ever said Ukraine should surrender to Russia? Meeting and finding resolution for peace is not synonymous to surrender. You are obviously having a very difficult time supporting your argument without swinging to extremes, or worse, exaggeration.
For a nation claiming to want to determine its own fate, Ukraine sure is allowing itself to be stooged easily by the west, no?
Hell, Zelensky is in a downward trend. He's no longer in the daily news, His Elvis presence is sadly and slowly leaving the building. And what will Ukraine have once a new global hero from Timbukto comes around? Yup. Rubble. Trust me, you talk about being a subservient to China, that baby looms to be a good possibility for Ukraine.
I note you didn't answer the question about Grozny.
You really are stuck in first gear. You didn't ask me anything related to Grozny. That's a sure sign of someone firing blanks.
Ukraine had been killing its own for decades. WW II under Banderas, 2014 to present in Donbas...LMAO! What is your point about this whole 'Grozny'. Lose it, it's tiring.
You answer my qeustion about Grozny I'll answer yours about Libya.
I could care less if you answer my question or not. I rest with the obvious reality of Libya's recent state and history. It isn't like your obvious lack of awareness will somehow convince me the benevolent West have nothing to do with it.
Putin has said Ukraine is not a real country. You haven't heard Putin say this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/21/putin-speech-ukraine/
1. No one is a fan of Putin, certainly not me. Though I have serious doubts with you as you seem so obsessed with whatever the idiot say or do.
The silly western media link you laid out (Washington Post, no less), didn't even have the context with which you claimed he said. Fact is, because of its leaderships, Ukraine was never an *INDEPENDENT* nation, to the very definition of the word, in the modern era. Ukraine was, and is (still), sells itself to the highest bidder.
What type of peaceful resolution would Putin accept? A puppet government in Kiev?
Silly. Take a nap, will you...
Halo seems says "Anyone who believes civilian deaths will cause Ukraine to capitulate doesn't know the Ukrainian mindset." Reply #136 on: Today at 01:50:33 PM » Do you think you know more about Ukraine than Halo?
I could give a rats arse what 'Halo' say. LMAO! She believes the 2014 coup was grassroots, lined up by grandmothers with flowers in their hands. She wouldn't recognize reality if it was a huge rock falling on top of her.
Do you actually believe that's a statement not applicable to any other citizen of any nation? What is even the point of making such a useless, idiotic statement?
Again, Ukraine was 'for sale' in 2014, just as what Zelensky is doing today. Always has been. The sad part of this is, it's the Ukrainian people that are suffering from all these era of madness in Ukraine. You simply cannot sugarcoat that very fact.
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Bodine, Worth noting the poster Halo, studied in Ukraine and is married to a man from the country. How many times have you visited Ukraine?
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The Netherlands government answers to the EU. Who do you think the EU answers to?
DutchGov does no such thing.
There is no European Army
There is no European Taxes
There is no European laws.
There are however treaties that NL implemented as law, but they are Dutch laws, not European.
Brexit showed just how much power the EU has. When it becomes too uncomfertable the member states simply .... leave.
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Bodine, Worth noting the poster Halo, studied in Ukraine and is married to a man from the country. How many times have you visited Ukraine?
Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority. The ability to analyse and think objectively without overt prejudice are skills that do not require proximity - indeed, in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input.
As an example, would I trust somebody who claimed authority in respect of the Maidan coup because they happened to spend a short time in the Maidan Square? Absolutely not, that'd be almost the worst possible vantage point from which to form an opinion of the larger situation.
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rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
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Rosco, While I can understand your viewpoint I disagree. Certainly life is not fair. But to acquiesce to the invasion and take over a country is both wrong morally and socially illegal. Ukraine and Russia were not the same even in the time of the Soviet Union.
If one wants to rewrite history so be it. But let’s be honest. Russia, V. Putin, signed accords or guarantees to assure that the Russian State would respect the territory of Ukraine. It has not. All the so-called Nazis or NATOists in Ukraine are the fantasy of some in the Kremlin.
So the question is where will V. Putin stop? Vilnius, Chisnau, Berlin or Paris?
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The supermarket is listed as being closed. It is no longer even showing on the supermarket brand's own site. So, it did not close down yesterday for 'strange reasons'. I am not too surprised that other shops have not updated their business status on Google maps, smaller businesses tend to be less good at this stuff - many do not even know how to do so!
The site owner is advertising for future rentals on the property but it was not clear from the web page whether the site was currently trading.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%A1%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BF%D0%BE/@49.0702509,33.4225594,17z/data=!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x40d75322b00163bb:0x9981e1c6d335dd9c!2sAmstor!8m2!3d49.0702474!4d33.4247481!3m4!1s0x0:0xfbaffd9be0ade101!8m2!3d49.0700002!4d33.42453
The closed supermarket chain's main website: https://silpo.ua/
This is the website for the business occupying the adjacent industrial area: https://kredmash.com/ua The business type is in accordance with the guidance from the Russian MoD.
If you look at the map you can see that it immediately borders the industrial area that Russia said had been targeted.
There are many videos of the site showing that there were loads of military wandering around and very few civilians. 1000 people as claimed would mean a load of cars in the car park - nope, cars are noticeable by their absence, especially close to the building.
So, it would seem, from what can be seen that the site was in use as some form of a military installation. Locals have apparently said the site closed down in April. I have not seen primary sources for this. It might not be true, however, the anchor tenant certainly was not operating and if they were not trading then it is unlikely that the secondary tenants would still be open. There would be no customers to serve. That tells us that the 1000 people claim is untrue. It would also imply that the casualties may be real, but they were probably wearing military uniform.
My guess is that the shopping mall was serving as some form of accommodation for Ukrainian servicemen associated with the activities next door.
Finding that information and confirming it took less time than writing this post - and I write fast.
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Rosco, While I can understand your viewpoint I disagree. Certainly life is not fair. But to acquiesce to the invasion and take over a country is both wrong morally and socially illegal. Ukraine and Russia were not the same even in the time of the Soviet Union.
If one wants to rewrite history so be it. But let’s be honest. Russia, V. Putin, signed accords or guarantees to assure that the Russian State would respect the territory of Ukraine. It has not. All the so-called Nazis or NATOists in Ukraine are the fantasy of some in the Kremlin.
So the question is where will V. Putin stop? Vilnius, Chisnau, Berlin or Paris?
And you've made as decent case without any hysterics. :thumbsup:
Most of our opinions are formed with the information available and then using a bit of common sense to fill in the gaps. None of us will ever really know for sure what happens behind closed doors.
I don't subscribe to Putin being a Nazi or that he wants to conquer the world. I do think that the West has played a role in poking the bear and that we wouldn't be where we are today, had we taken heed of the multiple warnings Russia gave the West, as it slowly crept East. In fact many of our politicians today, have said so themselves in interviews over the last 15-20 years, which makes me think that they knew what they were doing all along, hence the proxy war.
It's my opinion that Russia is fed up watching their sphere of influence eroding away, with much of that due to Western interference. The West wants a weaker Russia and I'm not saying that Russia automatically deserves to be in control of its neighbours.....but that's the way the world works. For the avoidance of doubt, it doesn't justify Russia's reactions either.
I also think that when this conflict started out, Ukraine and its advisors could and should have made concessions to please Russia and halt the carnage. I'm suggesting that they agreed to the neutral status they were asked to concede, along with other de-escalating measures, that would have stopped what's happened. It wouldn't necessarily have been fair, democratic or right but Ukraine wouldn't be destroyed and the millions of people dead, injured and displaced would be around today living their lives. Peace and negotiations through political means has to be better than death and destruction.
I'd rather be kept on reigns and start a political movement to win my freedom, than watch the world around you burn to the ground and lose your family and friends forever. I'm also strongly against this continual pumping of weapons into Ukraine because I believe that this only pronlongs the suffering, increases the death toll and leaves Ukraine weaker by the day.
The more this happens, the more it backs up the proxy war theory and the poor Ukrainians doing the Wests heavy lifting, under the guise of support and love.
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The supermarket is listed as being closed. It is no longer even showing on the supermarket brand's own site. So, it did not close down yesterday for 'strange reasons'. I am not too surprised that other shops have not updated their business status on Google maps, smaller businesses tend to be less good at this stuff - many do not even know how to do so!
The site owner is advertising for future rentals on the property but it was not clear from the web page whether the site was currently trading.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%A1%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BF%D0%BE/@49.0702509,33.4225594,17z/data=!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x40d75322b00163bb:0x9981e1c6d335dd9c!2sAmstor!8m2!3d49.0702474!4d33.4247481!3m4!1s0x0:0xfbaffd9be0ade101!8m2!3d49.0700002!4d33.42453
The closed supermarket chain's main website: https://silpo.ua/
This is the website for the business occupying the adjacent industrial area: https://kredmash.com/ua The business type is in accordance with the guidance from the Russian MoD.
If you look at the map you can see that it immediately borders the industrial area that Russia said had been targeted.
There are many videos of the site showing that there were loads of military wandering around and very few civilians. 1000 people as claimed would mean a load of cars in the car park - nope, cars are noticeable by their absence, especially close to the building.
So, it would seem, from what can be seen that the site was in use as some form of a military installation. Locals have apparently said the site closed down in April. I have not seen primary sources for this. It might not be true, however, the anchor tenant certainly was not operating and if they were not trading then it is unlikely that the secondary tenants would still be open. There would be no customers to serve. That tells us that the 1000 people claim is untrue. It would also imply that the casualties may be real, but they were probably wearing military uniform.
My guess is that the shopping mall was serving as some form of accommodation for Ukrainian servicemen associated with the activities next door.
Finding that information and confirming it took less time than writing this post - and I write fast.
Zelensky and the media have been banding around this 1,000 people in the building stat, yet there have been reports of only 13 dead. Something doesn't feel right for this story to be completely true.
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Rosco, I have a little more info.
If you look at the Google Maps link you can pull up reviews of the shops.
None of the shops have a review more recent than 4 months ago. There's a lot of reviews and then none.
That shopping centre has not been open to the public for a long time.
Basically, we can be pretty certain that the story in western media is untrue in almost all respects.
Worth noting, it is clear that none of the media stories did basic fact checking by clicking on Google Maps. Had they done so, the writers would have had the same questions that I did. I cannot believe that an honest reporter would not have at the least mentioned the obvious discrepancies.
How does it feel to know that you are being lied to and treated as an idiot by your government and media?
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Rosco, While I can understand your viewpoint I disagree. Certainly life is not fair. But to acquiesce to the invasion and take over a country is both wrong morally and socially illegal. Ukraine and Russia were not the same even in the time of the Soviet Union.
If one wants to rewrite history so be it. But let’s be honest. Russia, V. Putin, signed accords or guarantees to assure that the Russian State would respect the territory of Ukraine. It has not. All the so-called Nazis or NATOists in Ukraine are the fantasy of some in the Kremlin.
So the question is where will V. Putin stop? Vilnius, Chisnau, Berlin or Paris?
These guys do not get it. Since 1995 every time the price of oil and gas is high Russia invades someone and always has a reason. The real reason when the price of oil is high the strength of the west is lower, and the strength of Russia is stronger. There is not a single oil peak where Russia did not invade someone. It is simple, it is because the leadership in Russia wants more. This war will last as long as the price of oil and gas stay high and/or Russia is able to sell it.
It is bad that some here who might want to date cannot go to the LNR and DNR because there are no men. All males above 18 to 60 are in the military, left the region, or in hiding because if they are seen on the streets they will be drafted. Over half of the men from the region who are in the military are believed either dead or wounded to where they no longer can fight. Their family are not getting any pay and do not hear anything about their men. Now that Russia is running out of men again it appears they are going to use troops from Belarus to carry on the war.
USA ask Putin what it would take to not have this war. Putin said that they would need to have DeFacto control of Ukraine and nothing short of that would stop this war. Remember when the war started Putin thought they would win and that is what they would have that a few days. Putin felt there was no reason to negotiate. Putin still feels the west will give up and they will end up with all of Ukraine before it is over.
One of the conditions Putin claimed was necessary to not have the war was to demilitarize Ukraine. Meaning Ukraine would have no weapons to defend itself against Russia. That way the war would really only would take 48 hours.
The shopping mall the number of dead keep rising. Not sure we have a final count yet. Last I read 18 dead with 36 more known to be missing. Yes, I doubt they got many reviews after the war started.
News story about Russian propaganda and this mall.
https://www.bbc.com/news/61967480
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The supermarket is listed as being closed. It is no longer even showing on the supermarket brand's own site. So, it did not close down yesterday for 'strange reasons'. I am not too surprised that other shops have not updated their business status on Google maps, smaller businesses tend to be less good at this stuff - many do not even know how to do so!
The site owner is advertising for future rentals on the property but it was not clear from the web page whether the site was currently trading.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%A1%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BF%D0%BE/@49.0702509,33.4225594,17z/data=!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x40d75322b00163bb:0x9981e1c6d335dd9c!2sAmstor!8m2!3d49.0702474!4d33.4247481!3m4!1s0x0:0xfbaffd9be0ade101!8m2!3d49.0700002!4d33.42453
The closed supermarket chain's main website: https://silpo.ua/
This is the website for the business occupying the adjacent industrial area: https://kredmash.com/ua The business type is in accordance with the guidance from the Russian MoD.
If you look at the map you can see that it immediately borders the industrial area that Russia said had been targeted.
There are many videos of the site showing that there were loads of military wandering around and very few civilians. 1000 people as claimed would mean a load of cars in the car park - nope, cars are noticeable by their absence, especially close to the building.
So, it would seem, from what can be seen that the site was in use as some form of a military installation. Locals have apparently said the site closed down in April. I have not seen primary sources for this. It might not be true, however, the anchor tenant certainly was not operating and if they were not trading then it is unlikely that the secondary tenants would still be open. There would be no customers to serve. That tells us that the 1000 people claim is untrue. It would also imply that the casualties may be real, but they were probably wearing military uniform.
My guess is that the shopping mall was serving as some form of accommodation for Ukrainian servicemen associated with the activities next door.
Finding that information and confirming it took less time than writing this post - and I write fast.
Andy's trying to claim this was a false flag operation by the Ukrainian government. Major news organizations from all over the world say this happened but Andy sitting in his armchair, banging on his keyboard and shoving McDonald's Big Macs down his gullet as fast as he can says the mall was non operational and this was all a deliberate ruse by the Ukrainian government.
Andy are you being paid by the Kremlin for your posts on the bombing of the mall?
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Texan77, give it a go. Try the links I shared. Stop being being misled.
Believing fairy stories is a choice, you don't have to be like you are. It's a choice to be dumb. Choose better for yourself.
Westcoast, you really can't read can you?
Where did I write that it was a false flag?
I wrote that the story in western media was untrue.
How do you imagine that I might be paid just because I can do things that you can't do? Things like using search engines, use Google Maps, think.
Have a look at the links. Have a think. Then ask a sensible, fact based question or two. You don't have to draw the same conclusions, but you'll have grown.
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Texan77, give it a go. Try the links I shared. Stop being being misled.
Believing fairy stories is a choice, you don't have to be like you are. It's a choice to be dumb. Choose better for yourself.
Westcoast, you really can't read can you?
Where did I write that it was a false flag?
I wrote that the story in western media was untrue.
How do you imagine that I might be paid just because I can do things that you can't do? Things like using search engines, use Google Maps, think.
Have a look at the links. Have a think. Then ask a sensible, fact based question or two. You don't have to draw the same conclusions, but you'll have grown.
You're internet search skills must be very limited. Yesterday you were claiming the attack happened in the morning about 6:30. In fact the missile attack happened in the afternoon about 3PM.
By the way, to help people who cannot help themselves. The missile was reported at 06:30 I believe.
Here are the opening times for the large malls in the area:
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+do+shopping+malls+open+in+kremenchuk+ukraine&newwindow=1&sxsrf=ALiCzsbn5wavaNDQBF-TBVhI0-C6w0tP5A%3A1656357543972&ei=pwK6YqD5OsKQrgSQyr2YCg&ved=0ahUKEwjg6J3YrM74AhVCiIsKHRBlD6MQ4dUDCA4&oq=what+time+do+shopping+mals+open+in+kremenshk+ukraine&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAxKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQAFgAYABoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQA&sclient=gws-wiz
TL/DR that's about 2.5 hours before opening time. Has anyone working in a shopping mall ever seen how busy those places are that long before opening?
Yup, that's right, they are deserted - apart from the soldiers billeted in the underground loading docks and the engineers checking the weapons systems ready for later deployment.
Now you're saying the mall was non operational. The world says otherwise. Maybe you're not a paid Kremlin stooge, maybe you're just doing it because you're bored and it amuses you?
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rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
There is almost always the easy explanation, today is Constinution Day in Ukraine. The vast majority of businesses are closed. Such is the knowledge of having been to the country. Below is a simple link for the challenged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(Ukraine)
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Errm, no. Please see the links I shared elsewhere. Primary data, western source. Goes back months.
Or, yeah, keep on believing lies.
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Errm, no. Please see the links I shared elsewhere. Primary data, western source. Goes back months.
Or, yeah, keep on believing lies.
While I am uncertain who Andrew is referring to Slipo is part of the Fozzy Group of retailers. They are alive in Ukraine. Yes they have suffered loses but they plug along.
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Texan77, give it a go. Try the links I shared. Stop being being misled.
Believing fairy stories is a choice, you don't have to be like you are. It's a choice to be dumb. Choose better for yourself.
Westcoast, you really can't read can you?
Where did I write that it was a false flag?
I wrote that the story in western media was untrue.
How do you imagine that I might be paid just because I can do things that you can't do? Things like using search engines, use Google Maps, think.
Have a look at the links. Have a think. Then ask a sensible, fact based question or two. You don't have to draw the same conclusions, but you'll have grown.
How come the local news in Ukraine says the mall had people in it, was open for business and was bombed with a number of dead and missing? My Ukraine family is now living with me and the get news local news from Ukraine in Ukrainian language. I sent you a news story where it is saying that the news story you copied out our Russian news was fake. This story includes pictures of mall two days before the bombing. Then why would Russia waste a missile on an empty close down mall? I looked at your links did not really see much like you say. Very few reviews before the war not many in the last year. Not really saying much.
Video of people running out hit mall.
Video of people in Hospital cause by mall attack.
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Texan77, give it a go. Try the links I shared. Stop being being misled.
Believing fairy stories is a choice, you don't have to be like you are. It's a choice to be dumb. Choose better for yourself.
Westcoast, you really can't read can you?
Where did I write that it was a false flag?
I wrote that the story in western media was untrue.
How do you imagine that I might be paid just because I can do things that you can't do? Things like using search engines, use Google Maps, think.
Have a look at the links. Have a think. Then ask a sensible, fact based question or two. You don't have to draw the same conclusions, but you'll have grown.
How come the local news in Ukraine says the mall had people in it, was open for business and was bombed with a number of dead and missing? My Ukraine family is now living with me and the get news local news from Ukraine in Ukrainian language. I sent you a news story where it is saying that the news story you copied out our Russian news was fake. This story includes pictures of mall two days before the bombing. Then why would Russia waste a missile on an empty close down mall? I looked at your links did not really see much like you say. Very few reviews before the war not many in the last year. Not really saying much.
Video of people running out hit mall.
Video of people in Hospital cause by mall attack.
Texan77 you've got to understand Andy knows more about the mall missile attact incident and Ukraine in general than not only the Ukrainians living in Ukraine, he knows more about the military action in Ukraine than any of the Ukrainian government and military officials.
True Andy doesn't speak Ukrainian. He also doesn't speak Russian and couldn't tell the difference between the two languages. Andy also couldn't find Ukraine on a map with all the countries clearly labeled in English but Andy knows things.
He knows when the burger patty on the grill has reached just the correct level of doneness and needs to be flipped. He knows how to operate the cash register at the fast food restaurant he works at.
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Texan77, give it a go. Try the links I shared. Stop being being misled.
Believing fairy stories is a choice, you don't have to be like you are. It's a choice to be dumb. Choose better for yourself.
Westcoast, you really can't read can you?
Where did I write that it was a false flag?
I wrote that the story in western media was untrue.
How do you imagine that I might be paid just because I can do things that you can't do? Things like using search engines, use Google Maps, think.
Have a look at the links. Have a think. Then ask a sensible, fact based question or two. You don't have to draw the same conclusions, but you'll have grown.
Andy here's the definition of 'false flag':
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/false-flag
a misrepresentation of affiliation or motivation or a false equivalence deliberately put forth to manipulate the context, perception, or frame of an action, object, or argument
You're saying this attack wasn't done by the Russian military and was done by the Ukrainians to lay blame on the Russian government. This is quite literally the definition of false flag.
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The supermarket is listed as being closed. It is no longer even showing on the supermarket brand's own site. So, it did not close down yesterday for 'strange reasons'. I am not too surprised that other shops have not updated their business status on Google maps, smaller businesses tend to be less good at this stuff - many do not even know how to do so!
The site owner is advertising for future rentals on the property but it was not clear from the web page whether the site was currently trading.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%A1%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BF%D0%BE/@49.0702509,33.4225594,17z/data=!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x40d75322b00163bb:0x9981e1c6d335dd9c!2sAmstor!8m2!3d49.0702474!4d33.4247481!3m4!1s0x0:0xfbaffd9be0ade101!8m2!3d49.0700002!4d33.42453
The closed supermarket chain's main website: https://silpo.ua/
This is the website for the business occupying the adjacent industrial area: https://kredmash.com/ua The business type is in accordance with the guidance from the Russian MoD.
If you look at the map you can see that it immediately borders the industrial area that Russia said had been targeted.
There are many videos of the site showing that there were loads of military wandering around and very few civilians. 1000 people as claimed would mean a load of cars in the car park - nope, cars are noticeable by their absence, especially close to the building.
So, it would seem, from what can be seen that the site was in use as some form of a military installation. Locals have apparently said the site closed down in April. I have not seen primary sources for this. It might not be true, however, the anchor tenant certainly was not operating and if they were not trading then it is unlikely that the secondary tenants would still be open. There would be no customers to serve. That tells us that the 1000 people claim is untrue. It would also imply that the casualties may be real, but they were probably wearing military uniform.
My guess is that the shopping mall was serving as some form of accommodation for Ukrainian servicemen associated with the activities next door.
Finding that information and confirming it took less time than writing this post - and I write fast.
Rosco, I have a little more info.
If you look at the Google Maps link you can pull up reviews of the shops.
None of the shops have a review more recent than 4 months ago. There's a lot of reviews and then none.
That shopping centre has not been open to the public for a long time.
Basically, we can be pretty certain that the story in western media is untrue in almost all respects.
Worth noting, it is clear that none of the media stories did basic fact checking by clicking on Google Maps. Had they done so, the writers would have had the same questions that I did. I cannot believe that an honest reporter would not have at the least mentioned the obvious discrepancies.
How does it feel to know that you are being lied to and treated as an idiot by your government and media?
I was doing what you did also and noticed the same thing about that mall...no reviews newer than 4 months. it seemed odd to me.
so clicking on a few more locations in that city revealed the same thing...no reviews newer than 4 months.
now that could be because what you said/implied...the military has taken over much of the city and closed down or housed military items/people there.
but...with further clicking on the map...I searched farther afield...to Kiev. there are no reviews newer than 4 months there, in the various hotels and restaurants. a little odd again.
I checked Lvov also...same thing.
I even reopened maps and searched other cities (with same results) to make sure that your search parameters was not pulling up old data or such.
now it begins to look like something else is going on. my guess...the internet is down??? could be a great many reasons for this 'no reviews in the last 4 months'. I will let others make their own guesses.
the media is lying? of course they are, all of them. so are the politicians, all of them.
I do not think that these two civilian infrastructures were targeted purposely, this time. I do think that the Russian military and Putin knows the lessons of history 'that targeting civilians is not effective'. but...I have no idea if these two attacks constitute a war crime of not. that will be left to more knowable people than me
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Was curious and I went to some favourite places in Kiev and L’viv there are zero current reviews. There is on Google a notice to avoid being travel to Ukraine.
NB: I updated this after the Westy post, it indeed seems that no reviews are being accepted. The businesses are still functioning and open. It is an odd form of economic warfare.
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The supermarket is listed as being closed. It is no longer even showing on the supermarket brand's own site. So, it did not close down yesterday for 'strange reasons'. I am not too surprised that other shops have not updated their business status on Google maps, smaller businesses tend to be less good at this stuff - many do not even know how to do so!
The site owner is advertising for future rentals on the property but it was not clear from the web page whether the site was currently trading.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%A1%D1%96%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BF%D0%BE/@49.0702509,33.4225594,17z/data=!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x40d75322b00163bb:0x9981e1c6d335dd9c!2sAmstor!8m2!3d49.0702474!4d33.4247481!3m4!1s0x0:0xfbaffd9be0ade101!8m2!3d49.0700002!4d33.42453
The closed supermarket chain's main website: https://silpo.ua/
This is the website for the business occupying the adjacent industrial area: https://kredmash.com/ua The business type is in accordance with the guidance from the Russian MoD.
If you look at the map you can see that it immediately borders the industrial area that Russia said had been targeted.
There are many videos of the site showing that there were loads of military wandering around and very few civilians. 1000 people as claimed would mean a load of cars in the car park - nope, cars are noticeable by their absence, especially close to the building.
So, it would seem, from what can be seen that the site was in use as some form of a military installation. Locals have apparently said the site closed down in April. I have not seen primary sources for this. It might not be true, however, the anchor tenant certainly was not operating and if they were not trading then it is unlikely that the secondary tenants would still be open. There would be no customers to serve. That tells us that the 1000 people claim is untrue. It would also imply that the casualties may be real, but they were probably wearing military uniform.
My guess is that the shopping mall was serving as some form of accommodation for Ukrainian servicemen associated with the activities next door.
Finding that information and confirming it took less time than writing this post - and I write fast.
Rosco, I have a little more info.
If you look at the Google Maps link you can pull up reviews of the shops.
None of the shops have a review more recent than 4 months ago. There's a lot of reviews and then none.
That shopping centre has not been open to the public for a long time.
Basically, we can be pretty certain that the story in western media is untrue in almost all respects.
Worth noting, it is clear that none of the media stories did basic fact checking by clicking on Google Maps. Had they done so, the writers would have had the same questions that I did. I cannot believe that an honest reporter would not have at the least mentioned the obvious discrepancies.
How does it feel to know that you are being lied to and treated as an idiot by your government and media?
I was doing what you did also and noticed the same thing about that mall...no reviews newer than 4 months. it seemed odd to me.
so clicking on a few more locations in that city revealed the same thing...no reviews newer than 4 months.
now that could be because what you said/implied...the military has taken over much of the city and closed down or housed military items/people there.
but...with further clicking on the map...I searched farther afield...to Kiev. there are no reviews newer than 4 months there, in the various hotels and restaurants. a little odd again.
I checked Lvov also...same thing.
I even reopened maps and searched other cities (with same results) to make sure that your search parameters was not pulling up old data or such.
now it begins to look like something else is going on. my guess...the internet is down??? could be a great many reasons for this 'no reviews in the last 4 months'. I will let others make their own guesses.
the media is lying? of course they are, all of them. so are the politicians, all of them.
I do not think that these two civilian infrastructures were targeted purposely, this time. I do think that the Russian military and Putin knows the lessons of history 'that targeting civilians is not effective'. but...I have no idea if these two attacks constitute a war crime of not. that will be left to more knowable people than me
Conspiracy theories are fun and some of them I really do enjoy especially those with aliens on the Moon, Mars and right here on Earth.
Reality is boring and with many things in life so is the reason why there doesn't appear to be any new reviews for businesses in Ukraine for the last 4 months.
Of course the answer is obvious if you put some thought into it, Google has disabled the reviews for the entire country of Ukraine.
Feb 27 (Reuters) - Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) Google confirmed on Sunday it has temporarily disabled for Ukraine some Google Maps tools which provide live information about traffic conditions and how busy different places are.
The company said it had taken the action of globally disabling the Google Maps traffic layer and live information on how busy places like stores and restaurants are in Ukraine for the safety of local communities in the country, after consulting with sources including regional authorities.
'
https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-temporarily-disables-google-maps-live-traffic-data-ukraine-2022-02-28/
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Rosco, While I can understand your viewpoint I disagree. Certainly life is not fair. But to acquiesce to the invasion and take over a country is both wrong morally and socially illegal. Ukraine and Russia were not the same even in the time of the Soviet Union.
If one wants to rewrite history so be it. But let’s be honest. Russia, V. Putin, signed accords or guarantees to assure that the Russian State would respect the territory of Ukraine. It has not. All the so-called Nazis or NATOists in Ukraine are the fantasy of some in the Kremlin.
So the question is where will V. Putin stop? Vilnius, Chisnau, Berlin or Paris?
And you've made as decent case without any hysterics. :thumbsup:
Most of our opinions are formed with the information available and then using a bit of common sense to fill in the gaps. None of us will ever really know for sure what happens behind closed doors.
I don't subscribe to Putin being a Nazi or that he wants to conquer the world. I do think that the West has played a role in poking the bear and that we wouldn't be where we are today, had we taken heed of the multiple warnings Russia gave the West, as it slowly crept East. In fact many of our politicians today, have said so themselves in interviews over the last 15-20 years, which makes me think that they knew what they were doing all along, hence the proxy war.
It's my opinion that Russia is fed up watching their sphere of influence eroding away, with much of that due to Western interference. The West wants a weaker Russia and I'm not saying that Russia automatically deserves to be in control of its neighbours.....but that's the way the world works. For the avoidance of doubt, it doesn't justify Russia's reactions either.
I also think that when this conflict started out, Ukraine and its advisors could and should have made concessions to please Russia and halt the carnage. I'm suggesting that they agreed to the neutral status they were asked to concede, along with other de-escalating measures, that would have stopped what's happened. It wouldn't necessarily have been fair, democratic or right but Ukraine wouldn't be destroyed and the millions of people dead, injured and displaced would be around today living their lives. Peace and negotiations through political means has to be better than death and destruction.
I'd rather be kept on reigns and start a political movement to win my freedom, than watch the world around you burn to the ground and lose your family and friends forever. I'm also strongly against this continual pumping of weapons into Ukraine because I believe that this only pronlongs the suffering, increases the death toll and leaves Ukraine weaker by the day.
The more this happens, the more it backs up the proxy war theory and the poor Ukrainians doing the Wests heavy lifting, under the guise of support and love.
I've seen a couple of very respected Conservative Americans say similar to what you're saying. A particular military man has stated Ukraine needs 10X the war material as what they have gotten so far.
Any more military and weapons from the West is only going to prolong the suffering, the high death figures on both sides -- and now between 100 and 200 Ukrainian soldiers are losing their precious lives each day.
There are very difficult and horrible decisions which must be made primarily by the Ukrainian people. I do not consider Zelensky to be a true Ukrainian, he is nothing less than a globalist puppet which was just proven by his appearance alongside the Greta Thunberg creature at a recent event.
I personally want the financial and military aid by the USA to end ASAP. We the People of the United States should be receiving any and all financial assistance for our own needs, such as ensuring that American women who are pregnant have baby formula etc etc.
Giving away money which is borrowed to begin with makes zero sense, especially when it could be just one more brick in the wall leading to the financial collapse of the USA and by extension the entire World.
Naturally I hope and pray my current pessimism is misplaced however even if it's not as bad as I think it might be I believe things are going to get much worse prior to ever getting better.
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I've seen a couple of very respected Conservative Americans say similar to what you're saying. A particular military man has stated Ukraine needs 10X the war material as what they have gotten so far.
Any more military and weapons from the West is only going to prolong the suffering, the high death figures on both sides -- and now between 100 and 200 Ukrainian soldiers are losing their precious lives each day.
There are very difficult and horrible decisions which must be made primarily by the Ukrainian people. I do not consider Zelensky to be a true Ukrainian, he is nothing less than a globalist puppet which was just proven by his appearance alongside the Greta Thunberg creature at a recent event.
I personally want the financial and military aid by the USA to end ASAP. We the People of the United States should be receiving any and all financial assistance for our own needs, such as ensuring that American women who are pregnant have baby formula etc etc.
Giving away money which is borrowed to begin with makes zero sense, especially when it could be just one more brick in the wall leading to the financial collapse of the USA and by extension the entire World.
Naturally I hope and pray my current pessimism is misplaced however even if it's not as bad as I think it might be I believe things are going to get much worse prior to ever getting better.
In the US circles, this isn't about Ukraine fighting the "good war", this is about the money tree. A lot of people are making serious bank each day this war continues. You need to think of it like that. :8)
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Yeah, I agree, about the money. Of course, it is not just about the money.
I believe that many people in power had deluded themselves into thinking that they could force a war in Ukraine and that Ukraine would win.
We have been seeing cognitive dissonance on a huge scale in the Western halls of power.
What is happening now was not supposed to happen. Sadly, that does not say much that is good about western leaders - or their advisors.
The benificence of the magic money tree was a bonus and now is the only 'benefit' of the conflict. Sadly, although the money will continue to be spent, it will, for the foreseeable future be wasted on materiel that is proven to be sub-par, at least in a conflict with the military of another advanced state.
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Yeah, I agree, about the money. Of course, it is not just about the money.
I believe that many people in power had deluded themselves into thinking that they could force a war in Ukraine and that Ukraine would win.
We have been seeing cognitive dissonance on a huge scale in the Western halls of power.
What is happening now was not supposed to happen. Sadly, that does not say much that is good about western leaders - or their advisors.
The benificence of the magic money tree was a bonus and now is the only 'benefit' of the conflict. Sadly, although the money will continue to be spent, it will, for the foreseeable future be wasted on materiel that is proven to be sub-par, at least in a conflict with the military of another advanced state.
Ok, WADR, you have it reversed. The money comes first, and the geo-political "benefit" come second or is a fig leaf. It's much more acceptable to explain actions as "we're helping Ukraine" rather than "the people/lobbyists I know are making serious bank out of this". Think about it, in the US, both Dems and Republicans agree to a $53 Billion aid package that has nothing to do with US national security.
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I understand what you're saying but I think that this is about levels of power.
IMHO elements of the deep state believed that forcing a war with Russia was a good idea on (flawed) ideological grounds.
The decision makers are where those people are largely to be found and, of course, there's influencers upon that group whose interests are served by encouraging that ideology because they make bank from it.
Then, in the US, in particular, you have the house level politicians who seek to add pork to any legislation on which they vote. But they are not, in general, the policy makers and enforcers. Of course these people often represent the businesses and organisations that are directly benefiting from increased military spending.
That's why I see the matter the other way round. That does not in any way lessen the significance of the money.
So, to use an example that is not US based. Ursula Van der Leyen is not, I expect, going to fill her pockets with defence money. Although I'd be surprised if people she knows did not make investments based upon what they know of her prejudices and proclivities. So, the most important factor is ideological. People who advise her may well push her along in her insane ideology because they will make a fortune by getting her to push her stupid policy ideas.
So, on the whole, those who make the most money from the current policies are, in general, but not exclusively lower level people. Influencers and connected people, but not the decision makers.
I think that if there was no money to be made that the general thrust of policy would remain.
I'd also separate the general application of pork from the specific policies, particularly in the USA because thrusting one's nose into the trough is just normal practice and applies to pretty much any legislation where money is being allocated for any purpose.
In the end, what we are seeing is evil in action. The culmination of years of policy put into practice by the collective west against Russia and to the specific harm of Ukraine.
That last point is why I'd reject any claim made that I was a 'Putin lover' or Russian supporter'. My goal is to understand what is going on in order to better understand what happens next. I happen to think, based upon what I know that what we are seeing is the inevitable outcome of the evil policies of the collective west against Russia and Ukraine.
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Westcoast, please read what I write rather than imagining what you think I wrote without bothering to read.
I do not think that the Ukrainians created the event and that there was no attack on the installation adjacent.
The Russian MoD has said that the installation was targeted. They also said the shopping centre was not a target but that, in their opinion, based upon what they know, that the former shopping centre caught fire as a result of the attack next door.
So, no, if you read what I wrote then yiu can not honestly claim that I said this was a false flag or that I drew such an inference.
More broadly:
The point about reviews was an additional data point that I noticed after my initial post. That's clear from what I wrote.
The point about the centre being closed stands on the evidence I shared.
Interestingly, in the last few hours the relevant map on Google Maps has been altered significantly. The supermarket has been removed from the map entirely. Thus the evidence that the shop was already closed is gone. The entire centre is now shown as being temporarily closed. That tells a different story. Of course, the edit tends to suggest that my suspicions are likely to be correct. If I was incorrect then there is no reason to make an edit that suggests that the centre was not already closed to the public some time ago. One could not draw that inference from the information currently displayed on the page. History is being rewritten in real time.
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Westcoast, please read what I write rather than imagining what you think I wrote without bothering to read.
I do not think that the Ukrainians created the event and that there was no attack on the installation adjacent.
The Russian MoD has said that the installation was targeted. They also said the shopping centre was not a target but that, in their opinion, based upon what they know, that the former shopping centre caught fire as a result of the attack next door.
So, no, if you read what I wrote then yiu can not honestly claim that I said this was a false flag or that I drew such an inference.
More broadly:
The point about reviews was an additional data point that I noticed after my initial post. That's clear from what I wrote.
The point about the centre being closed stands on the evidence I shared.
Interestingly, in the last few hours the relevant map on Google Maps has been altered significantly. The supermarket has been removed from the map entirely. Thus the evidence that the shop was already closed is gone. The entire centre is now shown as being temporarily closed. That tells a different story. Of course, the edit tends to suggest that my suspicions are likely to be correct. If I was incorrect then there is no reason to make an edit that suggests that the centre was not already closed to the public some time ago. One could not draw that inference from the information currently displayed on the page. History is being rewritten in real time.
This seems to be the source of Andy's posts about the Russian missile attack on the mall. How Andy is saying the mall was closed and had been for months. How the real target was a Ukrainian military installation near the mall and that the mall being destroyed was collateral damage caused by debris hitting the mall. Of course there was no Ukrainian military installation near the mall it was just an industrial complex. If you go through the BBC article it lists the disinformation the Russians were trying to spread. It corresponds closely to everything Andy has posted about the mall attack being a hoax perpetrated by the Ukrainian government/military.
The BBC has fact checked a number of statements made by Russian Telegram channels and by Dmitry Polyanskiy, Russia's deputy ambassador to the United Nations. They included rumours that the attack was "false" or "staged" - and were repeated on Russian television.
Now you see why I'm questioning if Andy is being paid by Russian agents to spread this disinformation. It's almost has if he had been sent specific information to post on RUA as it matches so closely to what the Russian Telegram channels were apparently posting. After further consideration I can't see why Russian agents would pay Andy for doing this. IMO RUA doesn't have enough members to aid in the spread of Russian disinformation. I could be wrong in this however. Maybe the Russians were so desperate to escape blame for the mall attack that they were throwing money at anything and anyone who would aid their cause?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/D7EE/production/_125687255_kremanchuk_visual_analysis_02-2x_640-nc.png)
https://www.bbc.com/news/61967480
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This article is from June 28th, 2022. It states the death count from the Russian attack on the mall in Kremenchuk, Ukraine is up to 20 with dozens more injured with many more people still reported missing.
For those who stated it was suspicious that so few were killed and injured from the Russian missile attack on the mall you must realize that rescuers are still digging through the rubble that was once the mall. Bodies might continue to be found for days and unfortunately the death count might still climb.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108119523/death-toll-rises-from-russian-strike-on-shopping-mall-in-ukraine
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Ok, WADR, you have it reversed. The money comes first, and the geo-political "benefit" come second or is a fig leaf. It's much more acceptable to explain actions as "we're helping Ukraine" rather than "the people/lobbyists I know are making serious bank out of this". Think about it, in the US, both Dems and Republicans agree to a $53 Billion aid package that has nothing to do with US national security.
<snip>....
In the end, what we are seeing is evil in action. The culmination of years of policy put into practice by the collective west against Russia and to the specific harm of Ukraine.
That last point is why I'd reject any claim made that I was a 'Putin lover' or Russian supporter'. My goal is to understand what is going on in order to better understand what happens next. I happen to think, based upon what I know that what we are seeing is the inevitable outcome of the evil policies of the collective west against Russia and Ukraine.
IMHO, and in simple terms, the US/West continue to fuel this (planned) well-designed crisis to a tee. A perfectly orchestrated war of attrition. Engage a misguided leader/s of a nation into a war they cannot win. Have that nation, and its people, die miserably fighting your adversary with little to no skin off your nose. All the while reap the rewards lobbyists have long pampered you to implement.
The west/US understand 'Ukraine' was the perfect candidate for the role. The last POTUS momentarily derailed what was otherwise, inevitable. Hence, he was ran and banished off the Capitol.
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Westcoast you dullard, if you think that I am in the pay of Russia to deal with dolts like you then there's little hope for you. You are so detached from reality that you're probably convinced that ALF was a documentary.
I hope that the staff in your care home treat you decently well and that they keep you clean.
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Bodine, Worth noting the poster Halo, studied in Ukraine and is married to a man from the country. How many times have you visited Ukraine?
Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority. The ability to analyse and think objectively without overt prejudice are skills that do not require proximity - indeed, in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input.
As an example, would I trust somebody who claimed authority in respect of the Maidan coup because they happened to spend a short time in the Maidan Square? Absolutely not, that'd be almost the worst possible vantage point from which to form an opinion of the larger situation.
Andy, glad to hear you say ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and that "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."
As I've pointed out numerous flaws in your recent posts over the last couple of days and the fact that I live on the other side of the world I must be, in your opinion, an expert on all matters Russia and Ukraine.
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Westcoast you dullard, if you think that I am in the pay of Russia to deal with dolts like you then there's little hope for you. You are so detached from reality that you're probably convinced that ALF was a documentary.
I hope that the staff in your care home treat you decently well and that they keep you clean.
In my defense I did go on to say that it's unlikely that you're in the pay of Russian agents since RUA doesn't appear that have that large of a following to make paying you to disseminate Russian disinformation worthwhile.
Of course I don't know how many forums and such you're a member of or how many followers in total these forums may have.
I must admit at the time I did enjoy some episodes of ALF although IMO Mork & Mindy was better.
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Westcoast you dullard, if you think that I am in the pay of Russia to deal with dolts like you then there's little hope for you. You are so detached from reality that you're probably convinced that ALF was a documentary.
I hope that the staff in your care home treat you decently well and that they keep you clean.
Andy wouldn't dullards and dolts be the exact type of people the Russian disinformation campaign would be aimed at?
You followed their campaign literature almost perfectly.
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There are several easily found viewed videos and images of the mall prior and after impact.
The Russian missle did not hit next door and catch it on fire.
The mall was hit directly
I case could be made it wasmt the actual target, or that it was being used as a military operations office
(Both unlikely)
I'd even agree w that it was unlikely to have 1000 people present and that's an inflated number.
But the faulty *no reviews in 4 months* info is easily shown why.
Imagine Google maps etc not being specifically up to date in a war torn country? Odd eh?
You know what other civilian business has had no customer review in over 4 months?
The furniture store a block or so down from my MILs hit the first 3 days of the war.
No military or strategic target within kilometers.
Random missle strike far from.the airport or any administration buildings. Trains ,industry or bridges.
Never mind the cluster munitions that weeks later hit thier residential building and the local children's hosptial, and oncology building.
Stirlitz was there that day.
All just completely normal despite thousands of missles launched at Ukraine the last 4 to 5 months and whether the news is sensationalizing it isn't the point,the point is there have been and continue you to be obvious cases of residential.areas hit in cities far from.the front.
Yes certainly russia has targeted logistical.hubs, factories ,bridges, rail lines as well.and thatbis expected, but they have had far too many go astray to be oppsies as well.
Just like all those fires in Russia are not oppsies.
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rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz
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just a couple of minutes long
the 'expert' seems to think that it is unlikely that the missile (X22) used could have missed the target (the automotive plant) by that much (a kilometer). he concludes that it was almost certainly a deliberate attack on a populated area.
take that as you will
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https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/
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https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/
Do not fret, those nuzzling putins egg satchel will have plenty of internet proofs Russia knew exactly that all people killed were military ,and crews quickly put corpses .in civilian clothes ,that the mall.was a top secret nato base with 5 o 6, 3 star nato generals present all guiding the ukrainian losses in severodonestk with great efficiency and malice against innocent russia
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https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/
Do not fret, those nuzzling putins egg satchel will have plenty of internet proofs Russia knew exactly that all people killed were military ,and crews quickly put corpses .in civilian clothes ,that the mall.was a top secret nato base with 5 o 6, 3 star nato generals present all guiding the ukrainian losses in severodonestk with great efficiency and malice against innocent russia
Andy as of this morning is still insisting the mall was closed at the time of the missile attack and had been for a while. We both know Andy knows far more about this stuff than any of the analysts at Bellingcat.com. Why isn't Andy writing for major European publications?
I'm just waiting for Andy to explain away all the new evidence in the Bellingcat video. If anyone can I'm sure Andy can.
Westcoast, please read what I write rather than imagining what you think I wrote without bothering to read.
I do not think that the Ukrainians created the event and that there was no attack on the installation adjacent.
The Russian MoD has said that the installation was targeted. They also said the shopping centre was not a target but that, in their opinion, based upon what they know, that the former shopping centre caught fire as a result of the attack next door.
So, no, if you read what I wrote then yiu can not honestly claim that I said this was a false flag or that I drew such an inference.
More broadly:
The point about reviews was an additional data point that I noticed after my initial post. That's clear from what I wrote.
The point about the centre being closed stands on the evidence I shared.
Interestingly, in the last few hours the relevant map on Google Maps has been altered significantly. The supermarket has been removed from the map entirely. Thus the evidence that the shop was already closed is gone. The entire centre is now shown as being temporarily closed. That tells a different story. Of course, the edit tends to suggest that my suspicions are likely to be correct. If I was incorrect then there is no reason to make an edit that suggests that the centre was not already closed to the public some time ago. One could not draw that inference from the information currently displayed on the page. History is being rewritten in real time.
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What some dont seem to realize is yes,certainly lots of malls would have tenants that closed during this conflict, the typical.bazaars are not as fully rented out as they typically would be.
However in these unusual.circumstances you cant overlap normal marketplace .dynamics.
The stores that have goods and are open are still busy, the malls and areas that rent out to bazzare vendors have to make concessions as well.
Fuel.is scarece ,the public drives less ,walks and bicycles more , so cars arnt as prominent at shopping areas ,etc etc etc.
I'm.particularly.testy about this arm chair analysis today as a cruise missle slammed into my mils area again today.
There is no freeeeking logistical.or military target anywhere near there.
Get it thru your thick skulls.
These are not strikes coming from.ukraine.
This neighbor hood has been shelled by land and sea,it has been struck by several.missle attacks from.planes bombers,and ships , and land artillery.
If you can't *****king explian it, or show one logistical.or tactical.target within 3 kilometers ,
then shut the hell up.
And absolutely i can extrapulate that this isnt they only residential
Neighborhood to endure this for months.
You know why?
Because ive helped and directly been in contact with people in many areas of ukraine,and with refugee families here in.my area.
I just played taxi to a family of 6 attending english classes .
Thier city was bombed throughout it.
Yes some tactical.infrastructure was hit.
But far more residential buildings, schools, hospitals.,regular offices or shops
Very few areas untouched.
And no it wasnt maruiupol,and yes it was mostly from.the air sorties and done from.russian airspace as russia is not risking closer .
For gwad sakes wake TF up.
These tactics are wwII ,
and its inexcusable in modern times no.matter who is doing them.
No.matter hiw sensationlist bias western.media is,it doesnt change the fact its happening for months
You want to.play geo.politics of who is benefiting,to.make yourselves feel.better from.your couch.?
I will guarantee you one certain thing.
Russia wouldnt be doing this without hoping for incredibly large direct benifit.
Crunch the numbers anyway you want, thats what actually adds up.
-
What some dont seem to realize is yes,certainly lots of malls would have tenants that closed during this conflict, the typical.bazaars are not as fully rented out as they typically would be.
However in these unusual.circumstances you cant overlap normal marketplace .dynamics.
The stores that have goods and are open are still busy, the malls and areas that rent out to bazzare vendors have to make concessions as well.
Fuel.is scarece ,the public drives less ,walks and bicycles more , so cars arnt as prominent at shopping areas ,etc etc etc.
I'm.particularly.testy about this arm chair analysis today as a cruise missle slammed into my mils area again today.
There is no freeeeking logistical.or military target anywhere near there.
Get it thru your thick skulls.
These are not strikes coming from.ukraine.
This neighbor hood has been shelled by land and sea,it has been struck by several.missle attacks from.planes bombers,and ships , and land artillery.
If you can't *****king explian it, or show one logistical.or tactical.target within 3 kilometers ,
then shut the hell up.
And absolutely i can extrapulate that this isnt they only residential
Neighborhood to endure this for months.
You know why?
Because ive helped and directly been in contact with people in many areas of ukraine,and with refugee families here in.my area.
I just played taxi to a family of 6 attending english classes .
Thier city was bombed throughout it.
Yes some tactical.infrastructure was hit.
But far more residential buildings, schools, hospitals.,regular offices or shops
Very few areas untouched.
And no it wasnt maruiupol,and yes it was mostly from.the air sorties and done from.russian airspace as russia is not risking closer .
For gwad sakes wake TF up.
These tactics are wwII ,
and its inexcusable in modern times no.matter who is doing them.
No.matter hiw sensationlist bias western.media is,it doesnt change the fact its happening for months
You want to.play geo.politics of who is benefiting,to.make yourselves feel.better from.your couch.?
I will guarantee you one certain thing.
Russia wouldnt be doing this without hoping for incredibly large direct benifit.
Crunch the numbers anyway you want, thats what actually adds up.
For those of us who had British grandparents and extended family members who lived thru the blitz did they ever talk about it? Mine did and it just hardened them to the Germans.
There was no way they were going to give Adolph the surrender of the UK he wanted. Eventually the UK held out and with the help of the Americans, Canadians and many others prevailed.
As I said in another post many of my relatives literally hated Germans, any Germans, even those Germans born long after WW 2 ended, until the day they died.
This is going to happen in Ukraine. Some Ukrainians are going to hate Russians for the rest of their lives. Too many stories coming out of Ukraine about Ukrainian women being raped, Ukrainian children being kidnapped and taken to Russia, Ukrainian civilians being killed for no reason, etc. For many decades after this ends Ukrainians and others are going curse Russians, even Russians who were kids during the war or who were born after the war ended.
In some ways the fact that Russia is stealing Ukrainian grains and sending it to Russia or sending it to customers overseas and keeping the money is even worse because this is causing a global food shortage. Again something Russia's going to be remember for and cursed for many years to come.
-
rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
-
rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
-
rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
What bothers me is that a fool like you is born so often. :coffeeread:
-
rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
What bothers me is that a fool like you is born so often. :coffeeread:
You're the one saying the Ukrainians should withdraw and let Putin has the territories he's taken. When someone like Halo who has far more knowledge of Ukraine then you or Rosco or anyone else on RUA says Ukrainians will fight for their country.
Contrarian you're not much of a man are you?
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The issue with this idea contrarian is Russians have been 5 to.35 kilometers this entire time from Mikolaev.
They have tried 2 land assaults,and 2 amphibious assaults.
They have hit the city in every way you can in modern warfare besides tactical nukes and rhermobaric.
Although they did use the latter within the oblast and phosphorus.
They dressed a unit up in ukranian uniforms and tried to send that sof unit into the city,luckily they were identified .
Sonits not fur lack of trying on russias part to take Mykolaev or odessa.
Falling back to that defense line doesnt change anything except where the lives would be lost.
Rissia would within a week relocate the troops now concentrated in the east to kherson oblast in the south and instead of the battle being in donbas it would be in mikolaev.
It's not some way to save lives unless they are willing to conceded the entire black sea coast.
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It's not some way to save lives unless they are willing to conceded the entire black sea coast.
Russian imperialism has no limit to what it wants. It only stops because it has too. When and if it gets the whole country of Ukraine then it will find a reason to need more. There is no possible peace. Russia is now behaving as it always has for many centuries. Putin's peter the great speech justifies reclaiming land that used to belong to Russia whether it ever belonged to Russia or not.
Russia now openly threatens all of Europe.
And the How the UK is responding.
This war is not getting over but rather growing. IN August more western weapons will start to arrive in number. Then Russia will respond. Russia ability to fight the war comes from its ability to sell oil and gas at a high price. Until that goes away there is no end to this war that is possible. Europe is claiming to do much better by the end of the year. Whether that will happen is yet to be seen. For this to happen the west will need to reduce oil and gas consumption by a lot and not sure we are ready to do this.
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Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
Britain knew they could win a war against Germany and if you think it's similar to what's happening in Ukraine, then you've lost the plot in spectacular fashion.
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
Russia might be able to flatten Ukraine but they'll never be able to keep it. We've seen that recently with Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc. Ukrainians would need to want to be occupied for them to let that happen, as we saw in Crimea.
I say let the politicians do their thing and then let the people protest or start an insurgency. Right now its a war that's wiping Ukraine and its people off the face of the earth.....cheered on by people like you in the West.
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
Are you an idiot? Why do you constantly see 1 + 1 and come up with 537?
Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one. Halo has an opinion and that's her's to hold. I have mine and I'm explaining to you how I've come to this conclusion. This isn't a competition about who knows Ukraine better, having the more accurate opinion when it comes to how the conflict should play out......it literally has nothing to do with the price of fish. What another stupid comment WestCoast.
As it stands, more people will die every single day until Russia gets what they see as success. Only they know what this success will look like but its my opinion, that stoking the fire only prolongs the death, destruction and suffering and delays the inevitable. Zelensky isn't a hero and he's partly responsible for this shit show continuing into the summer months.
I think its a balance between stubbornness and the love of centre stage, the prevents Zelensky doing what he has to do, to save Ukrainian lives.
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While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
Absolutely :thumbsup:
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So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
You are an absolute rocket of a man!
This is nothing like WW2 or the Blitz. Ukraine is losing has done since the beginning of the conflict and that's with all the Billions of pounds worth of military aid being shipped in to help them prolong the inevitable. How many more Ukrainians must die before they realise that there are better strategies for Ukraine?
As Contrarian said above, the immense loss of life is horrific and irreversible. You can rebuild infrastructure, start political and social movements and force out an unwanted occupier but you can't win an unwinnable war or bring back all the dead. Some people want to commit suicide but I dont think you should be helping them tie the noose.
And what's this obsession you have with Halo and her husband? You don't need to be Ukrainian to know, just like you don't need to be an F1 driver to know the cars are fast.
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Russian imperialism has no limit to what it wants. It only stops because it has too. When and if it gets the whole country of Ukraine then it will find a reason to need more. There is no possible peace. Russia is now behaving as it always has for many centuries. Putin's peter the great speech justifies reclaiming land that used to belong to Russia whether it ever belonged to Russia or not.
Russia now openly threatens all of Europe.
You still think Russia wants to conquer the world? :ROFL:
Even if Russia manages to take Ukraine by force, the wont be able to keep it and they know that. How could they then start attacking new countries, having already suffered heavy military losses fighting a poorly equipped corrupt 3rd world country, spent loads of money and have a Ukrainian insurgency rebel against being occupied....all whilst marching forward miles from home.
You're dreaming old man. It's not logistically or practically possible for Russia to be doing what you claim.
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rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
What bothers me is that a fool like you is born so often. :coffeeread:
You're the one saying the Ukrainians should withdraw and let Putin has the territories he's taken. When someone like Halo who has far more knowledge of Ukraine then you or Rosco or anyone else on RUA says Ukrainians will fight for their country.
Halo is a respectable person certainly however she's not ex-military and certainly does not comprehend complex military strategy -- very few people do.
The Germans during WWII were phenomenal especially under their better Generals at living to fight another day against overwhelming odds and their strategies are still taught at West Point and other places, not that it will do a bit of good under the current push for "equity" and other such nonsense being pushed by dementia Joe and company.
Rosco just did an excellent job of explaining things to you as best is possible considering you inability to comprehend plain English.
BTW this famous General was a mischling.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-lfeCvNX4AhWpJkQIHYrKDwQQFnoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fbiography%2FErich-von-Manstein&usg=AOvVaw2A6NMYjKMK17r51ds36SGW
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Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
Britain knew they could win a war against Germany and if you think it's similar to what's happening in Ukraine, then you've lost the plot in spectacular fashion.
Thousands of Brits a week were being killed by German bombings during the blitz. Thousands of Ukrainians are being killed by Russians each week. Germans occupied UK territory in the Channel Islands ready to invade the mainland. Russia is occupying parts of Ukraine. Sounds far worse for Ukraine.
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
Russia might be able to flatten Ukraine but they'll never be able to keep it. We've seen that recently with Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc. Ukrainians would need to want to be occupied for them to let that happen, as we saw in Crimea.
I say let the politicians do their thing and then let the people protest or start an insurgency. Right now its a war that's wiping Ukraine and its people off the face of the earth.....cheered on by people like you in the West.
You're saying let Putin carve up Ukraine to his liking. Let the Russian military bring in all the supplies they need and get dug in. Have the Russian military bring in more Russians and kick out the Ukrainians from the Russified areas as they've done in the Donbas and Crimea. Then if the Ukrainians don't like what the politicians wrought the Ukrainians can start a guerilla war to oust the Russians? When the guerilla war starts why wouldn't the Russians just flatten the Ukrainian areas as the Russians did in Grozny?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
Are you an idiot? Why do you constantly see 1 + 1 and come up with 537?
Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one. Halo has an opinion and that's her's to hold. I have mine and I'm explaining to you how I've come to this conclusion. This isn't a competition about who knows Ukraine better, having the more accurate opinion when it comes to how the conflict should play out......it literally has nothing to do with the price of fish. What another stupid comment WestCoast.
As it stands, more people will die every single day until Russia gets what they see as success. Only they know what this success will look like but its my opinion, that stoking the fire only prolongs the death, destruction and suffering and delays the inevitable. Zelensky isn't a hero and he's partly responsible for this shit show continuing into the summer months.
I think its a balance between stubbornness and the love of centre stage, the prevents Zelensky doing what he has to do, to save Ukrainian lives.
If your opinion is just as accurate as Halo's who lived in Ukraine for years and you'd have trouble finding Ukraine on a map then my opinion must by your own standards be at least as valuable as yours.
If Ukrainians want to fight Russians instead of welcoming them to Ukraine and becoming a vassal state or Russia or worse part of Russia that's their right.
Putin certainly isn't a hero. Putin's a psychopath who's lead his country into becoming a pariah state to most of the world.
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respectfully, both contrarian and roscoe fail.to admit the front line would simply change to.the south, or the edge of the dneper in the east.
Yes ukraine could fall back to those areas, and since russia has already been attacking those areas you have zero reason to establish they would not continue to do so.
Neither does ukraine.
There is no advatage to fighting in mikolaev region versus fighting in donbas.
Surely you can see this is one possible out come of falling back?
And its the most likely one.
As far as conceding the entire cpubtry, then haviing a successful revolt.
that is typically not less bloody than normal combat?
It involves an established armed force in power, and control,losing to a less equppied insurgency.
That would more likely ultimately cost more ukrainian lives.
Think that.through and compare chechen loses in chechyna , afgsni loses in afganistan.
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Halo is a respectable person certainly however she's not ex-military and certainly does not comprehend complex military strategy -- very few people do.
The Germans during WWII were phenomenal especially under their better Generals at living to fight another day against overwhelming odds and their strategies are still taught at West Point and other places, not that it will do a bit of good under the current push for "equity" and other such nonsense being pushed by dementia Joe and company.
Rosco just did an excellent job of explaining things to you as best is possible considering you inability to comprehend plain English.
BTW this famous General was a mischling.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-lfeCvNX4AhWpJkQIHYrKDwQQFnoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fbiography%2FErich-von-Manstein&usg=AOvVaw2A6NMYjKMK17r51ds36SGW
Off-topic.
Curious question. Weren't you a 'Confederate' in another dimension?
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rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
[/quote
[/quote
[/quote
[/quote
So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
What bothers me is that a fool like you is born so often. :coffeeread:
[/quote]
You're the one saying the Ukrainians should withdraw and let Putin has the territories he's taken. When someone like Halo who has far more knowledge of Ukraine then you or Rosco or anyone else on RUA says Ukrainians will fight for their country.
[/quote]
Halo is a respectable person certainly however she's not ex-military and certainly does not comprehend complex military strategy -- very few people do.
[/quote]
No one here has claimed to be ex military with years of battlefield experience. Are you saying you're a battle hardened soldier who commanded troops in battle? If not you're the same armchair warrior as the rest of us. Halo OTOH lived in Ukraine for years and speaks the language, knows the culture . You and everyone else who so desperately is trying to convince everyone who disagrees with them have not lived in Ukraine for years
Rosco just did an excellent job of explaining things to you as best is possible considering you inability to comprehend plain English.
Rosco sounded like he was drunk and had just been in a bar fight he lost. That aside, Rosco when referring Halo said "Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one." So rosco doesn't put much stock in Halo's opinion of Ukraine's desire to defend their homeland so why should I put any stock in your or Rosco's opinion of the war in Ukraine?
BTW this famous General was a mischling.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-lfeCvNX4AhWpJkQIHYrKDwQQFnoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fbiography%2FErich-von-Manstein&usg=AOvVaw2A6NMYjKMK17r51ds36SGW
You seem to have a rather high opinion of Nazis? Why?
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You're the one saying the Ukrainians should withdraw and let Putin has the territories he's taken. When someone like Halo who has far more knowledge of Ukraine then you or Rosco or anyone else on RUA says Ukrainians will fight for their country.
You are desperate in your misguided, clueless mindset. This 'Halo' you desperately cling unto never even knew Ukraine was a 'Republic'. When proven wrong, a thread was locked, then eventually, the post was deleted.
As for *says Ukrainians will fight for their country.*, did it even occurred to you how mindlessly stupid that statement really is? Not only does that statement (can) literally apply to any other citizen of any country - it should more importantly, with the subject conflict, *apply to half of the population of Ukraine* that is fighting the *other* half of the population of Ukraine.
83 #@# million Americans, the majority of whom lived inside the US, believed Biden would make the best president of this nation. How is that 'proximity' working out, you think?
STOP DIGGING!
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You're the one saying the Ukrainians should withdraw and let Putin has the territories he's taken. When someone like Halo who has far more knowledge of Ukraine then you or Rosco or anyone else on RUA says Ukrainians will fight for their country.
You are desperate in your misguided, clueless mindset. This 'Halo' you desperately cling unto never even knew Ukraine was a 'Republic'. When proven wrong, a thread was locked, then eventually, the post was deleted.
[/quote]
Many Americans think the US is a democracy. In fact the media often refer to America has a democracy. The US is in fact a federal republic. Big difference.
As for *says Ukrainians will fight for their country.*, did it even occurred to you how mindlessly stupid that statement really is? Not only does that statement (can) literally apply to any other citizen of any country - it should more importantly, with the subject conflict, *apply to half of the population of Ukraine* that is fighting the *other* half of the population of Ukraine.
83 #@# million Americans, the majority of whom lived inside the US, believed Biden would make the best president of this nation. How is that 'proximity' working out, you think?
STOP DIGGING!
Why is your opinion more accurate than mine? What qualifications do you have that I lack? Now in this post you're literally frothing at the mouth.
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Many Americans think the US is a democracy. In fact the media often refer to America has a democracy. The US is in fact a federal republic. Big difference.
See how 'mindless' you really are? You actually have *unknowingly* proven my point.
Why is your opinion more accurate than mine? What qualifications do you have that I lack? Now in this post you're literally frothing at the mouth.
Note #2: This riposte have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the quoted referential post. You have ZERO ability to debate anything because you easily get lost in your confusion.
Again, how is the statement 'Ukrainians will fight for their country' because its their mindset - have any sensical value in a *civil war*?
Try your damnedest to answer that, will you?
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Many Americans think the US is a democracy. In fact the media often refer to America has a democracy. The US is in fact a federal republic. Big difference.
See how 'mindless' you really are? You actually have *unknowingly* proven my point.
Sorry I asked the question. Well beyond your level of comprehension.
Why is your opinion more accurate than mine? What qualifications do you have that I lack? Now in this post you're literally frothing at the mouth.
Note #2: This riposte have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the quoted referential post. You have ZERO ability to debate anything because you easily get lost in your confusion.
Again, how is the statement 'Ukrainians will fight for their country' because its their mindset - have any sensical value in a *civil war*?
Try your damnedest to answer that, will you?
Ukraine and Russia are sovereign countries. If Russians living in Ukraine want to be ruled by Putin move to Russia. Putin is giving away passports.
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Sorry I asked the question. Well beyond your level of comprehension.
Ukraine and Russia are sovereign countries. If Russians living in Ukraine want to be ruled by Putin move to Russia. Putin is giving away passports.
:chuckle:
Contrary to your perception, there is, in fact, a second gear, Westcoast.
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Sorry I asked the question. Well beyond your level of comprehension.
Ukraine and Russia are sovereign countries. If Russians living in Ukraine want to be ruled by Putin move to Russia. Putin is giving away passports.
:chuckle:
Contrary to your perception, there is, in fact, a second gear, Westcoast.
As I said my answers are beyond your comprehension. Same for Rosco.
-
Many Americans think the US is a democracy. In fact the media often refer to America has a democracy. The US is in fact a federal republic. Big difference.
See how 'mindless' you really are? You actually have *unknowingly* proven my point.
Why is your opinion more accurate than mine? What qualifications do you have that I lack? Now in this post you're literally frothing at the mouth.
Note #2: This riposte have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the quoted referential post. You have ZERO ability to debate anything because you easily get lost in your confusion.
Again, how is the statement 'Ukrainians will fight for their country' because its their mindset - have any sensical value in a *civil war*?
Try your damnedest to answer that, will you?
That's a bit of misrepresentation on your part ,and like* saying 08 georgia was a civil war.
There was a political divide in ukraine ,that part is accurate.
Tell the million people that fled donbas since 2014 ,in which by far the largest percentage (roughly 85%) fled to.ukraine, not russia or dpr held areas, and another 8% to 10% fled to.poland your thoughts on this so called 50 /50 split across a nation of 35 million where ukrainians are fighting ukrainians in a civil war.
You subsribe to.the west meddling deeply in the 14 oust of the stand8mg president , fair enpugh,
Yet seemingly ignore that the russian reaction was military invasion of both crimea and donbas.
73 russian units identified on holiday* in donestk region, and the wagner group.
All the early seperatist militant leaders russian born, not from the region, and ex * russian officers for the first several.years,not to.mention military equipment ,anti aircraft missle systems etc
We can debate if russias actions then were justified in the face of western meddling, but lets not pretend the grass roots movement was any militant insurgency without russia troops,leaders and equipment. Even girkin doesnt pretend to claim this and he was the initial leader.
His thought are donbas was ruinoed by the actions of what he started with the dnr.
Next time antifa or similar does an occupy* of seatlle and portland we will call it civil war.
Or lets pretend they were a rather small.part of the overall population but were funded ,aided by canada , and canada sent troops, and ex military officers as leaders and organizers, anti aircraft, artillery, countless small.arms suppllies , woth the groups intent to succeed and .
and call it an american civil.war sprung from civil.unrest.
Perhaps that would be the accurate ,and we just disagree on terminalogy.
Most cities russia thought of as pro russian have proven to be absolutely not,
Yet net pundits seemingly know better than russian informants there for decades and steeped in the culture, and know ukrainian mentality only mimics any countries natural civilian defense reaction so is just normal expectation,even though russia itself obviously did not expect the reaction of strong defense at all.
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That's a bit of misrepresentation on your part ,and like* saying 08 georgia was a civil war.
No. '08 Georgia have nothing to do with the subject of discussion - that is the *mindset of a nation*...
There was a political divide in ukraine ,that part is accurate.
Tell the million people that fled donbas since 2014 ,in which by far the largest percentage (roughly 85%) fled to.ukraine, not russia or dpr held areas, and another 8% to 10% fled to.poland your thoughts on this so called 50 /50 split across a nation of 35 million where ukrainians are fighting ukrainians in a civil war.
You subsribe to.the west meddling deeply in the 14 oust of the stand8mg president , fair enpugh,
Yet seemingly ignore that the russian reaction was military invasion of both crimea and donbas.
73 russian units identified on holiday* in donestk region, and the wagner group.
All the early seperatist militant leaders russian born, not from the region, and ex * russian officers for the first several.years,not to.mention military equipment ,anti aircraft missle systems etc
We can debate if russias actions then were justified in the face of western meddling, but lets not pretend the grass roots movement was any militant insurgency without russia troops,leaders and equipment. Even girkin doesnt pretend to claim this and he was the initial leader.
His thought are donbas was ruinoed by the actions of what he started with the dnr.
Next time antifa or similar does an occupy* of seatlle and portland we will call it civil war.
Or lets pretend they were a rather small.part of the overall population but were funded ,aided by canada , and canada sent troops, and ex military officers as leaders and organizers, anti aircraft, artillery, countless small.arms suppllies , woth the groups intent to succeed and .
and call it an american civil.war sprung from civil.unrest.
Perhaps that would be the accurate ,and we just disagree on terminalogy.
Most cities russia thought of as pro russian have proven to be absolutely not,
Yet net pundits seemingly know better than russian informants there for decades and steeped in the culture, and know ukrainian mentality only mimics any countries natural civilian defense reaction so is just normal expectation,even though russia itself obviously did not expect the reaction of strong defense at all.
People of Ukraine - Ukrainians, Period. When someone speaks of a nation's mindset, you literally mean an entirety of a nation's mindset. There were no distinction made to be shuffling percentages.
That was the gist of the discussion. The statement bore no sense at all since post-2014 was and is, a *Ukrainian* civil war. Westcoast ran with it unknowingly proving to the board how clueless he really was.
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That's a bit of misrepresentation on your part ,and like* saying 08 georgia was a civil war.
No. '08 Georgia have nothing to do with the subject of discussion - that is the *mindset of a nation*...
There was a political divide in ukraine ,that part is accurate.
Tell the million people that fled donbas since 2014 ,in which by far the largest percentage (roughly 85%) fled to.ukraine, not russia or dpr held areas, and another 8% to 10% fled to.poland your thoughts on this so called 50 /50 split across a nation of 35 million where ukrainians are fighting ukrainians in a civil war.
You subsribe to.the west meddling deeply in the 14 oust of the stand8mg president , fair enpugh,
Yet seemingly ignore that the russian reaction was military invasion of both crimea and donbas.
73 russian units identified on holiday* in donestk region, and the wagner group.
All the early seperatist militant leaders russian born, not from the region, and ex * russian officers for the first several.years,not to.mention military equipment ,anti aircraft missle systems etc
We can debate if russias actions then were justified in the face of western meddling, but lets not pretend the grass roots movement was any militant insurgency without russia troops,leaders and equipment. Even girkin doesnt pretend to claim this and he was the initial leader.
His thought are donbas was ruinoed by the actions of what he started with the dnr.
Next time antifa or similar does an occupy* of seatlle and portland we will call it civil war.
Or lets pretend they were a rather small.part of the overall population but were funded ,aided by canada , and canada sent troops, and ex military officers as leaders and organizers, anti aircraft, artillery, countless small.arms suppllies , woth the groups intent to succeed and .
and call it an american civil.war sprung from civil.unrest.
Perhaps that would be the accurate ,and we just disagree on terminalogy.
Most cities russia thought of as pro russian have proven to be absolutely not,
Yet net pundits seemingly know better than russian informants there for decades and steeped in the culture, and know ukrainian mentality only mimics any countries natural civilian defense reaction so is just normal expectation,even though russia itself obviously did not expect the reaction of strong defense at all.
People of Ukraine - Ukrainians, Period. When someone speaks of a nation's mindset, you literally mean an entirety of a nation's mindset. There were no distinction made to be shuffling percentages.
That was the gist of the discussion. The statement bore no sense at all since post-2014 was and is, a *Ukrainian* civil war. Westcoast ran with it unknowingly proving to the board how clueless he really was.
You know it's a civil war in Ukraine because? Are you a military vet with decades in the military in combat situations around the world? Are you a Phd in Ukrainian affairs? Or some other Phd with a specialist training in Ukraine? Or are you like Andy, someone who flips burgers at McDonald's and posts nonsense about Ukraine on his smoke breaks?
I'm thinking it's the last choice. You sound like someone who most intensive job training has been to ask "Do you want fries with your order?"
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You know it's a civil war in Ukraine because? Are you a military vet with decades in the military in combat situations around the world? Are you a Phd in Ukrainian affairs? Or some other Phd with a specialist training in Ukraine? Or are you like Andy, someone who flips burgers at McDonald's and posts nonsense about Ukraine on his smoke breaks?
I'm thinking it's the last choice. You sound like someone who most intensive job training has been to ask "Do you want fries with your order?"
It's official.
What was once only a suspicion, you now validated that you have the debating skills of a 5th grader.
Funny.
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You know it's a civil war in Ukraine because? Are you a military vet with decades in the military in combat situations around the world? Are you a Phd in Ukrainian affairs? Or some other Phd with a specialist training in Ukraine? Or are you like Andy, someone who flips burgers at McDonald's and posts nonsense about Ukraine on his smoke breaks?
I'm thinking it's the last choice. You sound like someone who most intensive job training has been to ask "Do you want fries with your order?"
It's official.
What was once only a suspicion, you now validated that you have the debating skills of a 5th grader.
Funny.
My suspicions are correct you've opted for a career in the fast food industry. Can you get RUA members 2 for 1 coupons for Big Mac meals?
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Take a nap. It'll do you some good. :-*
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You still think Russia wants to conquer the world? :ROFL:
Even if Russia manages to take Ukraine by force, the wont be able to keep it and they know that. How could they then start attacking new countries, having already suffered heavy military losses fighting a poorly equipped corrupt 3rd world country, spent loads of money and have a Ukrainian insurgency rebel against being occupied....all whilst marching forward miles from home.
You're dreaming old man. It's not logistically or practically possible for Russia to be doing what you claim.
I will not comment on whether Russia/Putin wants to take all of Ukraine by force...no one knows the plans of Putin.
if, big if, Russia does take all of Ukraine, or all they want, it would be very easy to pacify the population. VERY! history has shown us the way to do it. Russia has done it in the past. all they need to do is start filling up trains going to someplace else with the Ukraine population in the contested areas. just spread them out a bit across Russia. and fill up the trains with loyal population into waiting free lands, with jobs waiting. I would think that there would be a great many loyalists ready to move to the new world.
and that is the nightmare that I can see happening. the logistics are simple, easy and cheap.
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As for *says Ukrainians will fight for their country.*, did it even occurred to you how mindlessly stupid that statement really is? Not only does that statement (can) literally apply to any other citizen of any country - it should more importantly, with the subject conflict, *apply to half of the population of Ukraine* that is fighting the *other* half of the population of Ukraine.
yes, I was going to disagree with the half fighting the other half of the Ukrainian population, but I saw that AJ already responded.
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You still think Russia wants to conquer the world? :ROFL:
Even if Russia manages to take Ukraine by force, the wont be able to keep it and they know that. How could they then start attacking new countries, having already suffered heavy military losses fighting a poorly equipped corrupt 3rd world country, spent loads of money and have a Ukrainian insurgency rebel against being occupied....all whilst marching forward miles from home.
You're dreaming old man. It's not logistically or practically possible for Russia to be doing what you claim.
I will not comment on whether Russia/Putin wants to take all of Ukraine by force...no one knows the plans of Putin.
if, big if, Russia does take all of Ukraine, or all they want, it would be very easy to pacify the population. VERY! history has shown us the way to do it. Russia has done it in the past. all they need to do is start filling up trains going to someplace else with the Ukraine population in the contested areas. just spread them out a bit across Russia. and fill up the trains with loyal population into waiting free lands, with jobs waiting. I would think that there would be a great many loyalists ready to move to the new world.
and that is the nightmare that I can see happening. the logistics are simple, easy and cheap.
The USSR already did this when they wanted to get loyal Soviets into areas of the country with a large anti Soviet population or move anti Soviet populations out of an area. Read the Wikipedia article about this practice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
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That's a bit of misrepresentation on your part ,and like* saying 08 georgia was a civil war.
No. '08 Georgia have nothing to do with the subject of discussion - that is the *mindset of a nation*...
There was a political divide in ukraine ,that part is accurate.
Tell the million people that fled donbas since 2014 ,in which by far the largest percentage (roughly 85%) fled to.ukraine, not russia or dpr held areas, and another 8% to 10% fled to.poland your thoughts on this so called 50 /50 split across a nation of 35 million where ukrainians are fighting ukrainians in a civil war.
You subsribe to.the west meddling deeply in the 14 oust of the stand8mg president , fair enpugh,
Yet seemingly ignore that the russian reaction was military invasion of both crimea and donbas.
73 russian units identified on holiday* in donestk region, and the wagner group.
All the early seperatist militant leaders russian born, not from the region, and ex * russian officers for the first several.years,not to.mention military equipment ,anti aircraft missle systems etc
We can debate if russias actions then were justified in the face of western meddling, but lets not pretend the grass roots movement was any militant insurgency without russia troops,leaders and equipment. Even girkin doesnt pretend to claim this and he was the initial leader.
His thought are donbas was ruinoed by the actions of what he started with the dnr.
Next time antifa or similar does an occupy* of seatlle and portland we will call it civil war.
Or lets pretend they were a rather small.part of the overall population but were funded ,aided by canada , and canada sent troops, and ex military officers as leaders and organizers, anti aircraft, artillery, countless small.arms suppllies , woth the groups intent to succeed and .
and call it an american civil.war sprung from civil.unrest.
Perhaps that would be the accurate ,and we just disagree on terminalogy.
Most cities russia thought of as pro russian have proven to be absolutely not,
Yet net pundits seemingly know better than russian informants there for decades and steeped in the culture, and know ukrainian mentality only mimics any countries natural civilian defense reaction so is just normal expectation,even though russia itself obviously did not expect the reaction of strong defense at all.
People of Ukraine - Ukrainians, Period. When someone speaks of a nation's mindset, you literally mean an entirety of a nation's mindset. There were no distinction made to be shuffling percentages.
That was the gist of the discussion. The statement bore no sense at all since post-2014 was and is, a *Ukrainian* civil war. Westcoast ran with it unknowingly proving to the board how clueless he really was.
And you are playing semantics.
Yes if 1% of a population has a distinctly different mindset than 99% then it matters.
Where that line is drawn you want to debate without even admitting shuffling percents matter
within the context of civil war.
The opposing troops in ukraine now are Russian versus ukranian.
The opposing TROOPs in Ukraine i initially in 14 were often russian as well, or yiu forget wagner pmc made up much of DNR actual.military firce?
The crapila of others telling me how ukranians fell about the war is staggering ,and you want to misrepresent a portion of the populace,and only a portion of those that actually are pro russian
Go ahead, the mindset of the general.population of ukraine is obvious the entire conflict.
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That’s fine. There’s no semantics involved in my riposte, unless of course you’re asserting somehow Ukrainians in the Donbas region are NOT Ukrainian, or a large part of the whole.
If so, you would be obviously wrong regardless how you slice and dice that puppy.
The Union soldiers were no more or less Americans than the confederate. You can apply this in most people engaged in a civil war within their border.
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Semantics the *people * of donbas a fighting* ukrainians militarily were initially in large part led and consisted of russians from.russia.
73 units of russian soldiers and wagner pmc.
Slice and dice away.
Thats what we do here afterall.
You understand the lnr /dnr only held a portion of donbas and its quote contrary to fact to say the mid sized cities ,towns and villages of donbas are pro russian, or ukrainians fighting ukrainians, there since they were under ukraine held territory most of this time and most were fighting noone.
The ones that fled hostities in general almost all fled to.ukraine. that.speaks volumes .
And that would be quite odd for pro russians mind you.
The reality is we are talking mostly about two cities within the two.oblasts that were the strongholds of the ousted president and his group of hired thugs.
Of that population what percent is pro russian?
Granted probably quite a few.
But thier percent of total.ukrainian population does matter as far as general ukrainian mindset.
What percent of occupy portland represented the mindset of oregon state? Or of americans?
I've known plenty of pro putin ukrainians pre 2014.
Far less after.
Far far less after this febuary.
There was no.militant seperatost movement in donestk.without russian led and funded leaders , personal.and military equipment
So no.militant insurgency would occur (civil.war) without direct russian involvement of russians there on.the ground.
This is chicken or the egg stuff, bit its not like any real clash of militat fsctions was a civil.war and russia jimped in on one side.
Russia invaded then,and now.
I'm sure like any country there are people that disagree with the standing president and admin.
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AJ-
Not to beat this dead horse, just as I showed what’s-his-name, your last post yet again proves my very point. When you make such a broad statement about a given set, exclusions doesn’t apply.
It would be equally right to apply the subject mindset to the Donbas population as far as refusing to capitulate. After all, they are as much Ukrainian in Ukraine. Thus the point is moot. The statement is nonsensical, including any/all ensuing argument.
If you and I can’t get beyond that simple premise, then let’s just agree to disagree.
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I've seen a couple of very respected Conservative Americans say similar to what you're saying. A particular military man has stated Ukraine needs 10X the war material as what they have gotten so far.
Any more military and weapons from the West is only going to prolong the suffering, the high death figures on both sides -- and now between 100 and 200 Ukrainian soldiers are losing their precious lives each day.
There are very difficult and horrible decisions which must be made primarily by the Ukrainian people. I do not consider Zelensky to be a true Ukrainian, he is nothing less than a globalist puppet which was just proven by his appearance alongside the Greta Thunberg creature at a recent event.
I personally want the financial and military aid by the USA to end ASAP. We the People of the United States should be receiving any and all financial assistance for our own needs, such as ensuring that American women who are pregnant have baby formula etc etc.
Giving away money which is borrowed to begin with makes zero sense, especially when it could be just one more brick in the wall leading to the financial collapse of the USA and by extension the entire World.
Naturally I hope and pray my current pessimism is misplaced however even if it's not as bad as I think it might be I believe things are going to get much worse prior to ever getting better.
In the US circles, this isn't about Ukraine fighting the "good war", this is about the money tree. A lot of people are making serious bank each day this war continues. You need to think of it like that. :8)
I already previously alluded to that, however thank you. :)
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rosco it's sort of the way I feel about your posts. Few make sense and most of the others appear to me as if you're a shill for Putin.
If this isn't about what's fair it's war then why are so many people mentioning Ukraine getting support from the US and EU? It's war Ukraine is getting support from those who support Ukraine.
If you're saying Ukraine should submit because Russia will win then why does Russia fight so hard against the US and EU? Eventually over time the US and EU are going to win any confrontation with Russia. Why doesn't Putin just surrender now and save his people from the possible collapse of Russia?
To be fair WestCoast, the posters holding views similar to mine, tend to be the people who are open to learning and able to look at the bigger picture, outside of the views from trash media. It doesn't make us always right but we're generally never that far from reality. You on the other hand, seem to have paired up with Texan77. Anyone who doesn't repeat the noise from your echo chamber is a Putin shill and a Nazi......embarrassing stuff.
Bodine has pretty much nailed it btw and yes, you cant get out of first gear which makes you incredibly difficult to engage with. I'll try to dumb it down a tad and maybe you'll understand parts of my posts.
I've never said that Ukraine should submit and I'd like you to quote me on that? You're often putting words in my mouth and then when challenged, you cant quote me on what you claim I've said. Try debating what I've actually said rather than making stuff up. It's what Moby did all the time.
It's my opinion that Ukraine should have been seeking a peaceful resolution for a long time now. Russia will get what they want in the end and it will come at great expense to both countries, but especially Ukraine. Russia needs a win for them to stop and in the early days, that win would look like Ukraine distancing itself from the west and remaining neutral. Instead it'll be carved up, reduced to rubble and millions of people displaced, injured or dead and the next few decades will be bleak as they try and rebuild. The longer the fighting the bigger the rebuild.
You often say that it's not fair and you're correct, it isn't fair but neither is life. Super powers will always keep weaker pawns within their sphere of influence and the US and China do exactly the same. You can support the continued stoking of the flames and mass death with your links to supermarket attacks and partially destroyed residential buildings but adding more flames to the fire wont save lives.......and in case you aren't in the real world, Ukraine isn't winning. It's literally bleeding a slow death, supported by the west.
The war needs to stop, the killing needs to stop and should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not. A population needs to be compliant for an annexation to be successful. What the west and Ukraine is scared of, is like Crimea, many of these places might actually not want to be Ukrainian and once it's gone, it's gone for a very long time.
There's no way Russia can hold a Ukrainian insurgency (similar to what we saw in Afghanistan) but they can bomb the shit out of them for years to come if required. All whist you sit comfortably at home, supporting more war.
bolding mine
rosco my grandparents like those of many here were British and lived through WW2 and the blitz. I've provided a link in case you don't know what the blitz was.
My grandparents and their families used to recount tales of having to huddle in shelters during the raids by the German air force. Should the British have begged Adolph for peace?
You say "should Russia carve up Ukraine to their liking, then the Ukrainian people can decide peacefully if they'll allow that to happen or not". How exactly would the Ukrainian people peacefully object to the way Putin carves up a conquered Ukraine. Remember what happened to Grozny?
My grandfather to the end of his life referred to Germans in such negative ways that his wife was constantly apologizing and explaining his reasons for his comments. Some of his brothers said even worse things. I would imagine there are a great many Ukrainians who are saying some very bad things about Russians right now and will continue to say these things for the rest of their lives.
Yes I am sitting comfortably at home doing these posts, aren't you?
BTW Halo seems to think the Ukrainians should continue to fight. Are you saying you understand Ukraine better than Halo and her Ukrainian husband?
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
So if you had of been alive during the early days of the blitz in London and your opinion was sought on what to do your advice would be to retreat to the north of England and let Adolph land in hope that the Germans would relent on their endless bombing of London that was killing thousands each week?
After all by June 30 1940 Nazi Germany was already in control of the Channel Islands do Germany was on England's doorstep and ready to take England.
It doesn't bother you that Halo who lived in Ukraine and is married to an Ukrainian man and who probably knows more about the Ukrainian people than anyone here says the Ukrainians will never give up?
What bothers me is that a fool like you is born so often. :coffeeread:
You're the one saying the Ukrainians should withdraw and let Putin has the territories he's taken.
Contrarian you're not much of a man are you?
1. I did not say that Ukraine should withdraw, I clearly wrote in plain English that they should change their tactics. Try going back and reading what was actually written.
2. Halo might have a better knowledge of Ukraine in some ways and in others not so much. When she has been proven wrong she has apparently resorted to deleting posts which embarrass her and locking threads. Knowledge of the language and culture in a myopic and emotional way does not ensure rational analysis.
3. You were in banking at some point in your life, correct?
Do you own a plethora of defense stocks? You're literally making a killing off of human suffering and killing.
No wonder you're so eager to support such a tragedy. You condemn Andy as being a paid Putin troll which he might very well be meanwhile you are a well paid lobbyist of sorts.
WestCoast you're not much of a man are you?
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You know it's a civil war in Ukraine because? Are you a military vet with decades in the military in combat situations around the world? Are you a Phd in Ukrainian affairs? Or some other Phd with a specialist training in Ukraine? Or are you like Andy, someone who flips burgers at McDonald's and posts nonsense about Ukraine on his smoke breaks?
I'm thinking it's the last choice. You sound like someone who most intensive job training has been to ask "Do you want fries with your order?"
It's official.
What was once only a suspicion, you now validated that you have the debating skills of a 5th grader.
Funny.
My suspicions are correct you've opted for a career in the fast food industry. Can you get RUA members 2 for 1 coupons for Big Mac meals?
WestCoast condemns Andy for insulting others and making character assassinations as he goes on to insult others while making a character assassination. (:)
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Contrarian 1. I did not say that Ukraine should withdraw, I clearly wrote in plain English that they should change their tactics. Try going back and reading what was actually written.
My Answer - Here's your post. Note the bolded part where you clearly say the Ukrainian military should withdraw.
While I really despise the mercenaries and troops who've committed crimes against Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, the tragic truth is that 1,000 or more young Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives every 10 days.
Their wives, girlfriends, Mothers, Fathers and friends will be sad until the end of time. They will not be around to have beautiful Ukrainian children in order to rebuild the nation someday.
At this point it would clearly be better to withdraw completely from most of the east of Ukraine and prepare to defend Odessa and Mykoliv and other cities in that area. Eventually the Russians are likely going to be forced to withdraw from much of the east for economic reasons.
However for now it would clearly be best to make some land concessions in order that soldiers and others may live in order to rebuild their nation someday in the future.
It's clear to some of us that members on both sides of the US Congress and the UK have been war profiteering off of the human suffering and loss of life in Ukraine.
It's time to acknowledge some very difficult truths and plan for better days in the future. Ukraine will someday realize the truth about the US and others. :(
There are others I leave you to find them.
Contrarian 2. Halo does not have a better knowledge of Ukraine, she thinks she does yet every time she has been proven wrong in the past she has resorted to deleting posts which embarrass her and locking threads. Knowledge of the language and culture in a myopic and emotional way does not ensure rational analysis.
My answer.
Halo lived there. She speaks the language. She's married to a Ukrainian. What are you qualifications for knowing about Ukraine? What are your qualifications for knowing about the war and military strategy?
The same as mine? An armchair expert on the Ukrainian people and an armchair warrior?
Contrarian 3. You were in banking at some point in your life, correct?
Do you own a plethora of stock in western countries? You're literally making a killing off of human suffering and killing.
No wonder you're so eager to support such a tragedy. You condemn Andy as being a paid Putin troll which he might very well be, meanwhile you are a well paid lobbyist of sorts.
My answer
This may surprise you but I tend to invest in what I know. IOW banking stocks. Canadian banks are rated among the safest in the world. A great investment.
I've also owned at times - Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft. You get the idea. Safe tech stocks. Good long term earners. Add in a few houses because the price of land in Vancouver is never going to drop much and will climb in the long term.
Now I'm part owner of a restaurant/bar. Not because it's a great money maker but because the company owns the land and building and the price of land in Vancouver is skyrocketing.
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You know it's a civil war in Ukraine because? Are you a military vet with decades in the military in combat situations around the world? Are you a Phd in Ukrainian affairs? Or some other Phd with a specialist training in Ukraine? Or are you like Andy, someone who flips burgers at McDonald's and posts nonsense about Ukraine on his smoke breaks?
I'm thinking it's the last choice. You sound like someone who most intensive job training has been to ask "Do you want fries with your order?"
It's official.
What was once only a suspicion, you now validated that you have the debating skills of a 5th grader.
Funny.
My suspicions are correct you've opted for a career in the fast food industry. Can you get RUA members 2 for 1 coupons for Big Mac meals?
WestCoast condemns Andy for insulting others and making character assassinations as he goes on to insult others while making a character assassination. (:)
I've never said I don't insult people, I most certainly do insult people however I only insult those who insult me first.
Andy insults everyone so he's fair game. You and rosco have insulted me because I disagree with your opinions on Ukraine. Neither of you has any education or expertise in this area so both of you are fair game to insult.
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The ones that fled hostities in general almost all fled to.ukraine. that.speaks volumes .
And that would be quite odd for pro russians mind you.
Almost all of the original Donbass refugees in '14 fled to Russia. Don't misrepresent the facts please.
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You know it's a civil war in Ukraine because? Are you a military vet with decades in the military in combat situations around the world? Are you a Phd in Ukrainian affairs? Or some other Phd with a specialist training in Ukraine? Or are you like Andy, someone who flips burgers at McDonald's and posts nonsense about Ukraine on his smoke breaks?
I'm thinking it's the last choice. You sound like someone who most intensive job training has been to ask "Do you want fries with your order?"
It's official.
What was once only a suspicion, you now validated that you have the debating skills of a 5th grader.
Funny.
My suspicions are correct you've opted for a career in the fast food industry. Can you get RUA members 2 for 1 coupons for Big Mac meals?
WestCoast condemns Andy for insulting others and making character assassinations as he goes on to insult others while making a character assassination. (:)
I've never said I don't insult people, I most certainly do insult people however I only insult those who insult me first.
Andy insults everyone so he's fair game. You and rosco have insulted me because I disagree with your opinions on Ukraine. Neither of you has any education or expertise in this area so both of you are fair game to insult.
More words of "wisdom" from the armchair banker.
I cannot speak for Rosco other than he has oodles more common sense than you do however in my case I was in the military and have studied history and strategy of warfare.
You have neither a proper education nor a working knowledge of how the real world works nor do you truly desire to learn who is beyond this orchestrated blood shedding.
No I will not waste any more precious time on your waste of e ink at this juncture.
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The ones that fled hostities in general almost all fled to.ukraine. that.speaks volumes .
And that would be quite odd for pro russians mind you.
Almost all of the original Donbass refugees in '14 fled to Russia. Don't misrepresent the facts please.
Beg to differ with your assertion Markje it is more likely to be at the very least approximately 60/40 with 60% having moved to safer areas of Ukraine.
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Thousands of Brits a week were being killed by German bombings during the blitz. Thousands of Ukrainians are being killed by Russians each week. Germans occupied UK territory in the Channel Islands ready to invade the mainland. Russia is occupying parts of Ukraine. Sounds far worse for Ukraine.
These comparisons are not only completely silly but also wildly inaccurate. You continue to make yourself look foolish.
Did a large portion of Brits want to be German and did the UK government shell and kill thousands of these want away Brits, you imagine we had? Was Germany looking to invade Britain for the same reason Russia has gone into Ukraine......err no. Move along WestCoast.
Let the Russian military bring in all the supplies they need and get dug in. Have the Russian military bring in more Russians and kick out the Ukrainians from the Russified areas as they've done in the Donbas and Crimea. Then if the Ukrainians don't like what the politicians wrought the Ukrainians can start a guerilla war to oust the Russians? When the guerilla war starts why wouldn't the Russians just flatten the Ukrainian areas as the Russians did in Grozny?
Thanks for confirming your lack of situational awareness. Russia isn't able to conquer and control a country the size of Ukraine, especially where the Ukrainians don't want to be occupied. The Crimeans clearly didn't want to be Ukrainian and I suspect many in the East will be the same, once Russia takes control.
Why kill hundreds of thousands of poor Ukrainians just to end up at the same point?
If Ukrainians want to fight Russians instead of welcoming them to Ukraine and becoming a vassal state or Russia or worse part of Russia that's their right.
And we finally agree about that. If they want to fight back against Russia then go for it, it's their homeland and I support that!
What I disagree with is the West arming them, stoking the flames, prolonging the war, piling the bodies high and encouraging a protracted war which literally destroys Ukraine and kills, injures or displaces millions of innocents who shouldn't be paying the ultimate price.
Meanwhile the West get's its proxy war against Russia whilst peddling pseudo messages of heart felt support, in the hope of Ukraine doing all the heavy lifting and weakening Russia. They release a continuous series of news stories for idiots like you, telling us that Putin is the new Hitler and he wants his tanks rolling through Paris by xmas. And idiots like you believe it!! :'(
In reality Zelensky is a sham president, communicating what his handlers tell him, for personal benefit and future wealth and fame. The poor people of Ukraine continue to suffer terribly and inflation and the cost of living is killing the world as we speak. All whilst Russia slowly gets what they set out to get.
It's my guess that this could have been over before it started had Zelensky offered to remain neutral and engaged with Putin, the West had respected Russia's wishes regarding its sphere of influence and a peaceful resolution found in the war torn regions in the East, through political dialogue. It might be fanciful but its a million times better than whats going on now.
You can say that asking Ukraine to roll over isn't fair but its a corrupt country that's always rolled over to the highest bidder. I'd rather see the people of Ukraine suffer corruption and being kept on a tight leash, then see it blasted off the face of the earth.
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respectfully, both contrarian and roscoe fail.to admit the front line would simply change to.the south, or the edge of the dneper in the east.
Respectfully I'm not failing to admit anything.
Russia never wanted all of Ukraine and had they done something about their 8 year civil war in the east, where the government killed thousands of their own people, Putin wouldn't be in there doing what he's doing now.
Of course the front line needs to start somewhere but I dont that front line is Kiev or Lvov.
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respectfully, both contrarian and roscoe fail.to admit the front line would simply change to.the south, or the edge of the dneper in the east.
Respectfully I'm not failing to admit anything.
Russia never wanted all of Ukraine and had they done something about their 8 year civil war in the east, where the government killed thousands of their own people, Putin wouldn't be in there doing what he's doing now.
Of course the front line needs to start somewhere but I dont that front line is Kiev or Lvov.
Anyone who is not close to the decision-making heads of Rusian strategy can have no idea about the outcome. We do not know the primary plan goals, other than what was stated at the outset of the SMO. So, we do not know the success criteria nor do we know the contingency criteria. We do not even know if the criteria have changed.
All we can say is that the contingency planning networks alter according to the situation on the ground, both militarily and politically. So, the longer the SMO runs, the more likely it is that changes will be made. That is why I have said, based upon a bit of understanding of the economics of the situation, that a full occupation of Ukraine was extremely unlikely but that I could also understand circumstances in which that kind of outcome might become the best option.
It really does help to have even a slight understanding of economics and logistics when one wants to conduct a sanity check for a given situation (not just in times of kinetic conflict).
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Rosco sounded like he was drunk and had just been in a bar fight he lost. That aside, Rosco when referring Halo said "Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one." So rosco doesn't put much stock in Halo's opinion of Ukraine's desire to defend their homeland so why should I put any stock in your or Rosco's opinion of the war in Ukraine?
You're yet again demonstrating how easily confused you get.
I've been to Ukraine a number of times but I will never have the same knowledge or feeling for the country, that Halo has. But this is neither here nor there when it comes to having an opinion about the conflict. You dont need to be a baker to know when your Greggs steak bake is cold.
I'm not even arguing about it with her, it's you who's behaving like a bell end. I think the Ukrainians should fight against an unwanted force seeking to occupy their country. I disagree with the Wests role in the conflict i.e. both the run up to the start of it and how its been handled since.
You meanwhile continue to get confused and make silly arguments for what I can only guess is sport.
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Yeah, I absolutely applaud the efforts of the Ukrainian soldiers to defend their country. Even the reservists and conscripts now on the front lines have been on the whole, brave and steadfast.
The problem is that they absolutely did not need to be placed in that situation, do die or live a blighted life from here on out.
There was a saying about British troops in WW1 that applies here: Lions lead by donkeys.
The leadership of Ukraine has, for years, been making stupid choices that have led to the current situation. Now the troops are being forced by the current leadership to take military actions that are of no military benefit, but for political or even worse PR purposes.
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You still think Russia wants to conquer the world? :ROFL:
Even if Russia manages to take Ukraine by force, the wont be able to keep it and they know that. How could they then start attacking new countries, having already suffered heavy military losses fighting a poorly equipped corrupt 3rd world country, spent loads of money and have a Ukrainian insurgency rebel against being occupied....all whilst marching forward miles from home.
You're dreaming old man. It's not logistically or practically possible for Russia to be doing what you claim.
I will not comment on whether Russia/Putin wants to take all of Ukraine by force...no one knows the plans of Putin.
if, big if, Russia does take all of Ukraine, or all they want, it would be very easy to pacify the population. VERY! history has shown us the way to do it. Russia has done it in the past. all they need to do is start filling up trains going to someplace else with the Ukraine population in the contested areas. just spread them out a bit across Russia. and fill up the trains with loyal population into waiting free lands, with jobs waiting. I would think that there would be a great many loyalists ready to move to the new world.
and that is the nightmare that I can see happening. the logistics are simple, easy and cheap.
It's true, nobody really knows what Russia has in store for Ukraine but we can try and best guess it. I think one of the flaws with bussing in Russians, is that Ukraine will be a destroyed at this rate. Not sure who would fancy that.
Expect a divided population, social problems and a nation becoming like what the East is now. I simply cant see that working out.
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Yeah, I absolutely applaud the efforts of the Ukrainian soldiers to defend their country. Even the reservists and conscripts now on the front lines have been on the whole, brave and steadfast.
The problem is that they absolutely did not need to be placed in that situation, do die or live a blighted life from here on out.
There was a saying about British troops in WW1 that applies here: Lions lead by donkeys.
The leadership of Ukraine has, for years, been making stupid choices that have led to the current situation. Now the troops are being forced by the current leadership to take military actions that are of no military benefit, but for political or even worse PR purposes.
Bang on the money Andrew :thumbsup:
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The ones that fled hostities in general almost all fled to.ukraine. that.speaks volumes .
And that would be quite odd for pro russians mind you.
Almost all of the original Donbass refugees in '14 fled to Russia. Don't misrepresent the facts please.
Beg to differ with your assertion Markje it is more likely to be at the very least approximately 60/40 with 60% having moved to safer areas of Ukraine.
Ok, Russia took in 5 Mill refugees, how many did Ukraine take? oh thats right 1 Million.
The numbers are all out there on various statistic websites, you just need to learn Russian to view the core-data of Russian sphere of the world, western websites get you nowhere or a very skewed view.
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Lon, if you really think that the logistics of an occupation are simple, easy and cheap then you have no idea of what is involved.
The costs are huge, the allocation of resources is immensely complicated and the issues are very far from simple - even in areas where there is no occupation because the inhabitants are happy to be away from Ukrainian control.
The Russian armed forces almost certainly do not have the manpower for an occupation of the country and absolutely not if the RF wants to retain adequate manpower and materiel for the defence of Russia itself.
As for cost, look for context at the case of East Germany's joining with West Germany. That was a huge drag on Germany's economy for many years and the process is still not complete.
Have a shufti at this: https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/what-can-german-reunification-teach-the-uk-about-levelling-up/ A quick read suggests that I do not agree with everything in there, but it gives a decent starting point to enhance your understanding of a complex topic.
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Lon, if you really think that the logistics of an occupation are simple, easy and cheap then you have no idea of what is involved.
The costs are huge, the allocation of resources is immensely complicated and the issues are very far from simple - even in areas where there is no occupation because the inhabitants are happy to be away from Ukrainian control.
The Russian armed forces almost certainly do not have the manpower for an occupation of the country and absolutely not if the RF wants to retain adequate manpower and materiel for the defence of Russia itself.
As for cost, look for context at the case of East Germany's joining with West Germany. That was a huge drag on Germany's economy for many years and the process is still not complete.
Have a shufti at this: https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/what-can-german-reunification-teach-the-uk-about-levelling-up/ A quick read suggests that I do not agree with everything in there, but it gives a decent starting point to enhance your understanding of a complex topic.
Nicely put. Another historical perspective. 1944. The western allies (except the free french) has zip interest in liberating Paris before they absolutely had to - because Eisenhower knew when they did, they would have to provide Class I, II and V (beans, hardware, and fuel) for the millions living there - a significant logistical drain. Until Paris was liberated, supporting it was a German problem. :8)
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Many people think that logistics is just driving trucks and trains about the countryside.
In truth, logistics is better seen as the practical application of economics. Economics is about the allocation of scarce resources. In this context, scarce means anything that has a finite limiting quantity.
Logistics is the science of the practical allocation of scarce resources.
When one considers the practical matters behind a large military operation, one can soon understand why some choices are made, and why priorities are chosen, such as Paris in 1944. In Ukraine, it helps us to understand how many of the stories being told to the normals are simply untrue.
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Rosco sounded like he was drunk and had just been in a bar fight he lost. That aside, Rosco when referring Halo said "Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one." So rosco doesn't put much stock in Halo's opinion of Ukraine's desire to defend their homeland so why should I put any stock in your or Rosco's opinion of the war in Ukraine?
You're yet again demonstrating how easily confused you get.
I've been to Ukraine a number of times but I will never have the same knowledge or feeling for the country, that Halo has. But this is neither here nor there when it comes to having an opinion about the conflict. You dont need to be a baker to know when your Greggs steak bake is cold.
I'm not even arguing about it with her, it's you who's behaving like a bell end. I think the Ukrainians should fight against an unwanted force seeking to occupy their country. I disagree with the Wests role in the conflict i.e. both the run up to the start of it and how its been handled since.
You meanwhile continue to get confused and make silly arguments for what I can only guess is sport.
You have no qualifications or training that makes your opinion any better than mine yet you're saying I'm wrong?
If you disagree with the West's role in Ukraine why not point out the West's wrong actions even though you've given no examples of qualifications for judging Western governments.
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More proof that indeed Russia is targeting Ukrainian civilian populations.
From the article:
Russian missile attacks on residential areas killed at least 21 people early Friday near the Ukrainian port of Odesa, authorities reported, a day after the withdrawal of Moscow's forces from an island in the Black Sea seemed to ease the threat to the city.
Video of the attack before daybreak showed the charred ruins of buildings in the small town of Serhiivka, about 50 kilometers (31 miles) from Odesa. The Ukrainian president’s office said three Kh-22 missiles fired by warplanes struck an apartment building and a campsite.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/russian-missile-attack-hits-residential-054645059.html
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if, big if, Russia does take all of Ukraine, or all they want, it would be very easy to pacify the population. VERY! history has shown us the way to do it. Russia has done it in the past. all they need to do is start filling up trains going to someplace else with the Ukraine population in the contested areas. just spread them out a bit across Russia. and fill up the trains with loyal population into waiting free lands, with jobs waiting. I would think that there would be a great many loyalists ready to move to the new world.
and that is the nightmare that I can see happening. the logistics are simple, easy and cheap.
I quote me, so we can all see what I said
Lon, if you really think that the logistics of an occupation are simple, easy and cheap then you have no idea of what is involved.
The costs are huge, the allocation of resources is immensely complicated and the issues are very far from simple - even in areas where there is no occupation because the inhabitants are happy to be away from Ukrainian control.
The Russian armed forces almost certainly do not have the manpower for an occupation of the country and absolutely not if the RF wants to retain adequate manpower and materiel for the defence of Russia itself.
As for cost, look for context at the case of East Germany's joining with West Germany. That was a huge drag on Germany's economy for many years and the process is still not complete.
Have a shufti at this: https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/what-can-german-reunification-teach-the-uk-about-levelling-up/ A quick read suggests that I do not agree with everything in there, but it gives a decent starting point to enhance your understanding of a complex topic.
yes, I do know a little about logistics. as much or more as the rest of the arm chair generals, or logistics officers here, including you.
but, I was not writing about an occupation, as you wrote.
I/we were talking simply moving the local population out of the contested area. as in, the area that might have an up rising or partisan attacks.
how many exactly would be resisting? do we just move out everyone who are or might be? simpler to just remove everyone? would determine the size of the relocation effort ie. logistics. would not even have to be all at once. was not done all at once in the past. as resistance ebbed and flow, the relocation could be escalated or stopped as needed.
would not need Ukrainians in conquered Ukrainian lands to do any work. just bring in the loyal workers that are going to be rebuilding all the infrastructure. infrastructure had to be built anyway, regardless of whoever is there. simpler to just build camps for the workers (been done before).
let's talk about cost...comparative cost, of course. has to be comparative.
how much cost to relocate civilian population? lots and lots? perhaps. but train tickets are cheap. how much effort? not much, give them cash, let traveling Ukrainians fend for themselves at every stop (just think of the local economy at all the train stops, Ukraine to Vladivostok). put some soldiers at all the stops for security (they were lazing about anyway). a good many of Ukrainian interlopers have already moved or killed, so that cheapens the cost and effort. see...simples, cheap and easy.
how much to just bomb them out of existence? cheap, much cheaper and easier, of course. dumb bombs are cheap. fly a bunch of drones, bomb anything that looks alive, you will get the guilty that way. there, got rid of any partisan resistance.
comparing those two options, which is cheaper/easier/simpler? which has cheapest/easiest/simplest consequences? remember to consider all the consequences.
Nicely put. Another historical perspective. 1944. The western allies (except the free french) has zip interest in liberating Paris before they absolutely had to - because Eisenhower knew when they did, they would have to provide Class I, II and V (beans, hardware, and fuel) for the millions living there - a significant logistical drain. Until Paris was liberated, supporting it was a German problem. :8)
immaterial, we are not talking about the same thing.
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As I recall WestCoast was never been banned and/or removed from RUA. He did take a hiatus after his marriage. Moby has a very different style and manner of posting. Most of us have a distinct style of posting, nothing per say wrong with that. Just listen, read and respond to that post,
If you think it is just your intuition say so otherwise provide some background (links). [/size]
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if, big if, Russia does take all of Ukraine, or all they want, it would be very easy to pacify the population. VERY! history has shown us the way to do it. Russia has done it in the past. all they need to do is start filling up trains going to someplace else with the Ukraine population in the contested areas. just spread them out a bit across Russia. and fill up the trains with loyal population into waiting free lands, with jobs waiting. I would think that there would be a great many loyalists ready to move to the new world.
and that is the nightmare that I can see happening. the logistics are simple, easy and cheap.
I quote me, so we can all see what I said
Lon, if you really think that the logistics of an occupation are simple, easy and cheap then you have no idea of what is involved.
The costs are huge, the allocation of resources is immensely complicated and the issues are very far from simple - even in areas where there is no occupation because the inhabitants are happy to be away from Ukrainian control.
The Russian armed forces almost certainly do not have the manpower for an occupation of the country and absolutely not if the RF wants to retain adequate manpower and materiel for the defence of Russia itself.
As for cost, look for context at the case of East Germany's joining with West Germany. That was a huge drag on Germany's economy for many years and the process is still not complete.
Have a shufti at this: https://www.centreforcities.org/blog/what-can-german-reunification-teach-the-uk-about-levelling-up/ A quick read suggests that I do not agree with everything in there, but it gives a decent starting point to enhance your understanding of a complex topic.
yes, I do know a little about logistics. as much or more as the rest of the arm chair generals, or logistics officers here, including you.
but, I was not writing about an occupation, as you wrote.
I/we were talking simply moving the local population out of the contested area. as in, the area that might have an up rising or partisan attacks.
how many exactly would be resisting? do we just move out everyone who are or might be? simpler to just remove everyone? would determine the size of the relocation effort ie. logistics. would not even have to be all at once. was not done all at once in the past. as resistance ebbed and flow, the relocation could be escalated or stopped as needed.
would not need Ukrainians in conquered Ukrainian lands to do any work. just bring in the loyal workers that are going to be rebuilding all the infrastructure. infrastructure had to be built anyway, regardless of whoever is there. simpler to just build camps for the workers (been done before).
let's talk about cost...comparative cost, of course. has to be comparative.
how much cost to relocate civilian population? lots and lots? perhaps. but train tickets are cheap. how much effort? not much, give them cash, let traveling Ukrainians fend for themselves at every stop (just think of the local economy at all the train stops, Ukraine to Vladivostok). put some soldiers at all the stops for security (they were lazing about anyway). a good many of Ukrainian interlopers have already moved or killed, so that cheapens the cost and effort. see...simples, cheap and easy.
how much to just bomb them out of existence? cheap, much cheaper and easier, of course. dumb bombs are cheap. fly a bunch of drones, bomb anything that looks alive, you will get the guilty that way. there, got rid of any partisan resistance.
comparing those two options, which is cheaper/easier/simpler? which has cheapest/easiest/simplest consequences? remember to consider all the consequences.
Nicely put. Another historical perspective. 1944. The western allies (except the free french) has zip interest in liberating Paris before they absolutely had to - because Eisenhower knew when they did, they would have to provide Class I, II and V (beans, hardware, and fuel) for the millions living there - a significant logistical drain. Until Paris was liberated, supporting it was a German problem. :8)
immaterial, we are not talking about the same thing.
Lon brings up a good point about relocating trouble making Ukrainians in Russian occupied Ukraine. If for instance the Russian military identified about 25K Ukrainians who might cause problems in the Russian occupied areas in the coming years.
Tell the 25K Ukrainians they have a choice leave for areas of Ukraine not occupied by Russians or leave Ukraine for other countries. Make it known that if the trouble makers don't leave they'll be shipped to eastern Russia. The Russians would have a plan ready for which Russian cities to send the trouble makers to.
If 20K trouble making Ukrainians remained behind ship them out for eastern Russia by train. At 100 per train trip it would only take about 200 train trips to evacuate the 20K trouble makers.
It sounds like a lot of trips however maybe some could be sent to Belarus, Kazakhstan, some of the other stans. The rest as Lon said lots of small and large towns and cities on the way to the Pacific.
These method of depopulating Russian occupied areas of Ukraine would probably be cheaper than a couple of Russian navy vessels.
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I think if you really care to dig, about 35k ukranians were already shipped to filtration camps (23?) across russia.
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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid025xXEHkFmMpx3MbtKVua7DgFa7WZPhwSZV79ikXNg4iM4KudTmJDxJo3sks28rVuYl&id=100007631283577
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The ones that fled hostities in general almost all fled to.ukraine. that.speaks volumes .
And that would be quite odd for pro russians mind you.
Almost all of the original Donbass refugees in '14 fled to Russia. Don't misrepresent the facts please.
Beg to differ with your assertion Markje it is more likely to be at the very least approximately 60/40 with 60% having moved to safer areas of Ukraine.
Ok, Russia took in 5 Mill refugees, how many did Ukraine take? oh thats right 1 Million.
The numbers are all out there on various statistic websites, you just need to learn Russian to view the core-data of Russian sphere of the world, western websites get you nowhere or a very skewed view.
You are suggesting 6 million refugees pre February 2022?
Hopefully not, as the entire population of both oblasts was barely over that in 14.
If you are refering to after ,or inclusive of post invasion it makes more sense.
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I think if you really care to dig, about 35k ukranians were already shipped to filtration camps (23?) across russia.
I've read several articles about Ukrainians being sent to Russia to be processed for some reason. Can't remember what the Russians are going to do with them.
I've also read that 200K Ukrainian children have disappeared into Russia without their parents. Again don't know what's happening to the kids or if the numbers are accurate.
One story I saw had mothers writing their child's name and other details on the child's back in permanent marker in case the mother and child were separated.
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Apparently western leaders have proposed separating Ukraine into two countries much like North and South Korea.
Problem is few in Ukraine want this option. As the author of the article says "A compromise settlement would be no more than a pause, allowing Russia to regroup for another push — yet a third invasion, in the next few years, to seize the rest of Ukraine."
A Ukrainian poll released this week by the Wall Street Journal confirms what I’ve heard in Kiev. A full 89% of the Ukrainians surveyed opposed trading conquered land for peace, and 81% opposed allowing Russia to keep the territory it annexed in 2014.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/op-ed-west-no-business-100013185.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-new-poll-89-of-ukrainians-reject-ceding-land-to-reach-peace-with-russia-11656504002
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Apparently western leaders have proposed separating Ukraine into two countries much like North and South Korea.
Problem is few in Ukraine want this option. As the author of the article says "A compromise settlement would be no more than a pause, allowing Russia to regroup for another push — yet a third invasion, in the next few years, to seize the rest of Ukraine."
A Ukrainian poll released this week by the Wall Street Journal confirms what I’ve heard in Kiev. A full 89% of the Ukrainians surveyed opposed trading conquered land for peace, and 81% opposed allowing Russia to keep the territory it annexed in 2014.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/op-ed-west-no-business-100013185.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-new-poll-89-of-ukrainians-reject-ceding-land-to-reach-peace-with-russia-11656504002
Kudos to you for using a WSJ reference.
You do understand that polls are not reality? If a poll at Berkley finds that 99% don't like gravity, gravity simply doesn't care? :8)
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Apparently western leaders have proposed separating Ukraine into two countries much like North and South Korea.
Problem is few in Ukraine want this option. As the author of the article says "A compromise settlement would be no more than a pause, allowing Russia to regroup for another push — yet a third invasion, in the next few years, to seize the rest of Ukraine."
A Ukrainian poll released this week by the Wall Street Journal confirms what I’ve heard in Kiev. A full 89% of the Ukrainians surveyed opposed trading conquered land for peace, and 81% opposed allowing Russia to keep the territory it annexed in 2014.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/op-ed-west-no-business-100013185.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-new-poll-89-of-ukrainians-reject-ceding-land-to-reach-peace-with-russia-11656504002
Kudos to you for using a WSJ reference.
You do understand that polls are not reality? If a poll at Berkley finds that 99% don't like gravity, gravity simply doesn't care? :8)
Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
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Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
WestCoast You are really stupid and obnoxious. There are people on this site that are far more educated about the subject matter that you are willing to admit to. Your posts are so outrageous that many will never reply to your comments.
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Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
WestCoast You are really stupid and obnoxious. There are people on this site that are far more educated about the subject matter that you are willing to admit to. Your posts are so outrageous that many will never reply to your comments.
Yankee I'm always willing to learn. How am I "really stupid and obnoxious". Tell me I'd really like to know?
Is it because I tend to insult other RUA members? I only insult others after they've insulted me. I'm not Christian. I don't believe in turning the other cheek.
Rosco and Contrarian insult me because I don't adhere to their posts about Ukraine surrendering territory for peace are the right thing to do. I insult them when I reply. Same for Andy.
Which RUA members are more educated than Halo about the Ukrainian people? Are these RUA members more educated about the Ukrainian people than the real Ukrainian people that participated in the WSJ poll I just posted?
It's already been established that there are no RUA members who know anything about war from actually serving in war and leading troops into battle. So why would my opinion be any less valuable than theirs about the war?
Yankee I'm sure you know about other such sites similar to RUA. They appear to have a totally different view on how Ukraine should react to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Are those sites stupid and obnoxious?
Please Yankee or anyone tell me where I'm wrong?
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Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
WestCoast You are really stupid and obnoxious. There are people on this site that are far more educated about the subject matter that you are willing to admit to. Your posts are so outrageous that many will never reply to your comments.
Yankee I'm always willing to learn. How am I "really stupid and obnoxious". Tell me I'd really like to know?
Is it because I tend to insult other RUA members? I only insult others after they've insulted me. I'm not Christian. I don't believe in turning the other cheek.
Rosco and Contrarian insult me because I don't adhere to their posts about Ukraine surrendering territory for peace are the right thing to do. I insult them when I reply. Same for Andy.
Which RUA members are more educated than Halo about the Ukrainian people? Are these RUA members more educated about the Ukrainian people than the real Ukrainian people that participated in the WSJ poll I just posted?
It's already been established that there are no RUA members who know anything about war from actually serving in war and leading troops into battle. So why would my opinion be any less valuable than theirs about the war?
Yankee I'm sure you know about other such sites similar to RUA. They appear to have a totally different view on how Ukraine should react to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Are those sites stupid and obnoxious?
Please Yankee or anyone tell me where I'm wrong?
While I am not 100% certain I believe Yankee served in the US navy specializing in lightering. A tricky maneuver that has fair number of disasters even today.
Further Cuffy has experience on submarines, where as my knowledge is civilian of submarines and there capacities. Specialized in the optics and hydraulic systems.
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Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
Really? What constitutes "relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war"? :8)
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While I am not 100% certain I believe Yankee served in the US navy specializing in lightering. A tricky maneuver that has fair number of disasters even today.
I spent two years on the USS Navasota AO-106. During replenishing (transferring NSFO, JP-5,and water) I was responsible for communicating with the ships that came alongside and received from our ship (rig #3). I also communicated with our pump room. Two times I had 9 inch hoses burst above me (NSFO) and one time a 5 inch hose (JP-5). The JP-5 burst put me in sick bay for several days.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=FVj9WCm0&id=128A1F59ED738645298BAD6F379F58338715B926&thid=OIP.FVj9WCm07LkRQRezV_U_SAHaE4&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.hullnumber.com%2fp_photos%2fAO-106.image.1001213.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.1558fd5829b4ecb9114117b357f53f48%3frik%3dJrkVhzNYnzdvrQ%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0%26sres%3d1%26sresct%3d1%26srh%3d799%26srw%3d1213&exph=422&expw=640&q=USS+Navasota+Ao+106+Refueling&simid=607998955241173843&FORM=IRPRST&ck=4BBDA8C15A2F6A05F3ABC58AE28CF447&selectedIndex=16&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=FVj9WCm0&id=128A1F59ED738645298BAD6F379F58338715B926&thid=OIP.FVj9WCm07LkRQRezV_U_SAHaE4&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.hullnumber.com%2fp_photos%2fAO-106.image.1001213.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.1558fd5829b4ecb9114117b357f53f48%3frik%3dJrkVhzNYnzdvrQ%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0%26sres%3d1%26sresct%3d1%26srh%3d799%26srw%3d1213&exph=422&expw=640&q=USS+Navasota+Ao+106+Refueling&simid=607998955241173843&FORM=IRPRST&ck=4BBDA8C15A2F6A05F3ABC58AE28CF447&selectedIndex=16&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0)
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Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
WestCoast You are really stupid and obnoxious. There are people on this site that are far more educated about the subject matter that you are willing to admit to. Your posts are so outrageous that many will never reply to your comments.
Yankee I'm always willing to learn. How am I "really stupid and obnoxious". Tell me I'd really like to know?
Is it because I tend to insult other RUA members? I only insult others after they've insulted me. I'm not Christian. I don't believe in turning the other cheek.
Rosco and Contrarian insult me because I don't adhere to their posts about Ukraine surrendering territory for peace are the right thing to do. I insult them when I reply. Same for Andy.
Which RUA members are more educated than Halo about the Ukrainian people? Are these RUA members more educated about the Ukrainian people than the real Ukrainian people that participated in the WSJ poll I just posted?
It's already been established that there are no RUA members who know anything about war from actually serving in war and leading troops into battle. So why would my opinion be any less valuable than theirs about the war?
Yankee I'm sure you know about other such sites similar to RUA. They appear to have a totally different view on how Ukraine should react to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Are those sites stupid and obnoxious?
Please Yankee or anyone tell me where I'm wrong?
While I am not 100% certain I believe Yankee served in the US navy specializing in lightering. A tricky maneuver that has fair number of disasters even today.
Further Cuffy has experience on submarines, where as my knowledge is civilian of submarines and there capacities. Specialized in the optics and hydraulic systems.
Neither Yankee or Cuffy, as far as I can recall have commented on military strategies in the war in Ukraine. I know Cuffy has commented on other military conflicts. Yankee I can't remember ever commenting on a military conflict. was
If Cuffy or Yankee and I were involved in a conversation I certainly wouldn't tell either they were wrong if they were giving their opinion on a military conflict.
OTOH, Andy, Rosco and others like me know nothing about the military, so there opinions are no more valid than mine.
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Do you understand that no one on RUA has any relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war in Ukraine? Nor does anyone on RUA know enough about Ukraine to be saying what the Ukrainian people should do?
Really? What constitutes "relevant education or training to be commenting on the military strategies of the war"? :8)
IMO having been through basic training and serving in combat in a war zone. Having done a tour in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
If you've been in the military and served stateside as a mechanic you haven't been in combat but you'd certainly be able to comment on the types of vehicles you've repaired.
If you served 20 or 30 years in the military and were a senior NCO or senior officer with multiple tours of duty your opinion is far more valuable than someone who did only one tour of duty.
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The issue with this idea contrarian is Russians have been 5 to.35 kilometers this entire time from Mikolaev.
They have tried 2 land assaults,and 2 amphibious assaults.
They have hit the city in every way you can in modern warfare besides tactical nukes and rhermobaric.
Although they did use the latter within the oblast and phosphorus.
They dressed a unit up in ukranian uniforms and tried to send that sof unit into the city,luckily they were identified .
Sonits not fur lack of trying on russias part to take Mykolaev or odessa.
Falling back to that defense line doesnt change anything except where the lives would be lost.
Rissia would within a week relocate the troops now concentrated in the east to kherson oblast in the south and instead of the battle being in donbas it would be in mikolaev.
It's not some way to save lives unless they are willing to conceded the entire black sea coast.
AJ,
You know I admire your opinions and skills which I have stated to you in private messages. I see the current best chance to prevent Russia from capturing Odessa, Mykoliv and then going all the way to Moldova thus blocking Ukraine from access to the Black Sea to indeed be making a last heroic stand in that region.
I do not doubt what you've written above about the Russian special forces attempting to commit a false flag while in Ukrainian uniforms. You state that there were identified, do you also know whether or not they were captured or did the CS weasels escape?
Without a doubt this forum is blessed to have your opinions and knowledge especially since you have relatives on the ground in that area.
The thing you should remember is that the Biden regime abandoned our allies in Afghanistan to be brutally tortured and murdered by the Taliban, what makes you think the Biden regime is not going to also abandon the Ukrainians at the last minute?
The intelligent people know that Biden's brother and others were guilty of corruption and war profiteering in Afghanistan; no doubt abandoning our allies there was deliberate on the part of dementia Joes handlers as they knew that dead men tell no tales.
Everything Biden touches turns to sh*t and some of us believe the Ukrainians must make some very difficult decisions and it should be THEM making the decisions not Biden nor any war profiteers in the US Congress or war profiteers in the UK and especially not any of us here or there on any fora although certainly your opinion and a few others bears more weight in my mind -- I just hope you will put into context the history of US and other politicians using young soldiers and marines as cannon fodder and then abandoning them to the wolves.
I suspect when this is all done Zelinsky will retire a wealthy guy and celebrity of sorts to Florida meanwhile so many Mothers Fathers brothers sisters children wives and girlfriends will be heartbroken for the rest of their lives.
Think about it man! How would you feel if you ended up realizing the West used your country as a proxy war in their vendetta and then left everyone behind to suffer until the end of their lives from this meddling and war profiteering?
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AJ,
You know I admire your opinions and skills which I have stated to you in private messages. I see the current best chance to prevent Russia from capturing Odessa, Mykoliv and then going all the way to Moldova thus blocking Ukraine from access to the Black Sea to indeed be making a last heroic stand in that region.
I do not doubt what you've written above about the Russian special forces attempting to commit a false flag while in Ukrainian uniforms. You state that there were identified, do you also know whether or not they were captured or did the CS weasels escape?
Without a doubt this forum is blessed to have your opinions and knowledge especially since you have relatives on the ground in that area.
The thing you should remember is that the Biden regime abandoned our allies in Afghanistan to be brutally tortured and murdered by the Taliban, what makes you think the Biden regime is not going to also abandon the Ukrainians at the last minute?
The intelligent people know that Biden's brother and others were guilty of corruption and war profiteering in Afghanistan; no doubt abandoning our allies there was deliberate on the part of dementia Joes handlers as they knew that dead men tell no tales.
Everything Biden touches turns to sh*t and some of us believe the Ukrainians must make some very difficult decisions and it should be THEM making the decisions not Biden nor any war profiteers in the US Congress or war profiteers in the UK and especially not any of us here or there on any fora although certainly your opinion and a few others bears more weight in my mind -- I just hope you will put into context the history of US and other politicians using young soldiers and marines as cannon fodder and then abandoning them to the wolves.
I suspect when this is all done Zelinsky will retire a wealthy guy and celebrity of sorts to Florida meanwhile so many Mothers Fathers brothers sisters children wives and girlfriends will be heartbroken for the rest of their lives.
Think about it man! How would you feel if you ended up realizing the West used your country as a proxy war in their vendetta and then left everyone behind to suffer until the end of their lives from this meddling and war profiteering?
This was a deal Trump started and made no plans for leaving Afghanistan and left Biden short noticed to carry it out. Not that Biden could of done a better job but leaving Afghanistan was a Trump decision and being so unprepared was as much as Trump created problem as it was Biden. Biden was left with two choices to renege on the Trump agreement and send more troops or leave on short notice. There was not a good choice.
Maybe in twenty years we will stop supporting Ukraine like we stop supporting Afghanistan after twenty years. I think Russia will give up first as they did not last as long in Afghanistan as we did.
Zelinsky is already a billionaire and was making huge money before he became president of Ukraine. He owned a media production company that own dozens of popular shows in Ukraine including the one he acted in. The stations pay him money to air the shows as he did not own the stations.
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AJ,
You know I admire your opinions and skills which I have stated to you in private messages. I see the current best chance to prevent Russia from capturing Odessa, Mykoliv and then going all the way to Moldova thus blocking Ukraine from access to the Black Sea to indeed be making a last heroic stand in that region.
I do not doubt what you've written above about the Russian special forces attempting to commit a false flag while in Ukrainian uniforms. You state that there were identified, do you also know whether or not they were captured or did the CS weasels escape?
Without a doubt this forum is blessed to have your opinions and knowledge especially since you have relatives on the ground in that area.
The thing you should remember is that the Biden regime abandoned our allies in Afghanistan to be brutally tortured and murdered by the Taliban, what makes you think the Biden regime is not going to also abandon the Ukrainians at the last minute?
The intelligent people know that Biden's brother and others were guilty of corruption and war profiteering in Afghanistan; no doubt abandoning our allies there was deliberate on the part of dementia Joes handlers as they knew that dead men tell no tales.
Everything Biden touches turns to sh*t and some of us believe the Ukrainians must make some very difficult decisions and it should be THEM making the decisions not Biden nor any war profiteers in the US Congress or war profiteers in the UK and especially not any of us here or there on any fora although certainly your opinion and a few others bears more weight in my mind -- I just hope you will put into context the history of US and other politicians using young soldiers and marines as cannon fodder and then abandoning them to the wolves.
I suspect when this is all done Zelinsky will retire a wealthy guy and celebrity of sorts to Florida meanwhile so many Mothers Fathers brothers sisters children wives and girlfriends will be heartbroken for the rest of their lives.
Think about it man! How would you feel if you ended up realizing the West used your country as a proxy war in their vendetta and then left everyone behind to suffer until the end of their lives from this meddling and war profiteering?
This was a deal Trump started and made no plans for leaving Afghanistan and left Biden short noticed to carry it out. Not that Biden could of done a better job but leaving Afghanistan was a Trump decision and being so unprepared was as much as Trump created problem as it was Biden. Biden was left with two choices to renege on the Trump agreement and send more troops or leave on short notice. There was not a good choice.
Maybe in twenty years we will stop supporting Ukraine like we stop supporting Afghanistan after twenty years. I think Russia will give up first as they did not last as long in Afghanistan as we did.
Zelinsky is already a billionaire and was making huge money before he became president of Ukraine. He owned a media production company that own dozens of popular shows in Ukraine including the one he acted in. The stations pay him money to air the shows as he did not own the stations.
Tex,
B/B has probably done the best job of disputing what you're saying about Trump. Trump was not going to allow the Taliban to bully him or the USA and so it was a deal in progress, this much is true. Had the election not been obviously stolen by crooks then Trump would have been able to conclude the negotiations and get the USA out of there properly.
Were Biden's administration even remotely competent then they would have handled this situation far, far better than they did. The fiasco his moronic administration created will live in infamy as a black eye of how not to draw down from a country.
We never should have been there in the first place and many here have said the same thing.
This is a bit of intel to read about one particular aspect of that war.
Quote
“The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know.” – Harry Truman, as quoted in Plain Speaking : An Oral Biography of Harry S Truman (1974) by Merle Miller, p. 26.
"Disinformation during the War in Iraq: The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform reported in July, 2008 that because top military and White House “striking lack of recollection,” responsibility could not be determined for official disinformation on the death of Pat Tillman in 2004, and the circumstances for the recovery of Jessica Lynch (66). Pat Tillman was the Pac-10 Defensive Player of the Year, and All-Pro linebacker for the Arizona Cardinals, breaking their single-season record for tackles. When Pat turned down a $3.6 million contract to join the US Army Rangers, he became a poster-boy for supporting the war.
Kevin Tillman, Pat’s brother who served with him, wrote that they discovered the War on Terror was an illegal invasion, subverted the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, included US torture of detainees, was all based on lies, and that American leadership had made a more dangerous world (67). One of Pat’s fellow soldiers reported Pat stating, “You know, this war is so f---ing illegal (68).” Pat’s mother, Mary Tillman, also says that Pat concluded the war was illegal (69), and that Pat arranged to meet with MIT Professor Noam Chomsky to discuss the illegality of the war (70). Given that Chomsky is one of the US’ strongest and most prolific spokespersons against the war, the probable result of such a meeting would be Chomsky and/or Tillman going public with their report. Mary Tillman would like to publicize Pat’s diary to confirm Pat’s exact impressions. However, the military informed her that his diary was “accidentally” completely burned, along with his uniform and body armor (perhaps these were destroyed to cover-up evidence that would have falsified the military’s report that Pat was killed by enemy fire to the chest). The official US story on Tillman’s death was that he died heroically engaging the enemy in a fierce firefight. After the public funeral and publicity, and five weeks after his death, the government acknowledged that Pat was killed by his own troops in “an accident.” Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the medical examiners of Pat’s body reported that he was killed by three shots to the forehead in a tight pattern, concluding the shots came from 10 yards or so away (71). Military personnel familiar with firing the specific weapon report that to have such a tight pattern with three rounds would require being no more than ten feet away, or the result of three separate snipers firing simultaneously (72). Because of this strong physical evidence, Army doctors requested an investigation for murder (fratricide). Both of their requests were denied. In addition, there was zero evidence of any enemy fire at the scene (no other person or equipment was shot and no shell casings were found), Special Forces snipers were among the unit that fired on Pat, Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails in keeping information away from the public and securing non-criminal reprimands, and the three-star general who managed the disinformation responded to over 70 specific questions from the official investigation with the answer, “I don’t remember.” (73)
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Tex,
B/B has probably done the best job of disputing what you're saying about Trump. Trump was not going to allow the Taliban to bully him or the USA and so it was a deal in progress, this much is true. Had the election not been obviously stolen by crooks then Trump would have been able to conclude the negotiations and get the USA out of there properly.
Were Biden's administration even remotely competent then they would have handled this situation far, far better than they did. The fiasco his moronic administration created will live in infamy as a black eye of how not to draw down from a country.
We never should have been there in the first place and many here have said the same thing.
This is a bit of intel to read about one particular aspect of that war.
Quote
“The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know.” – Harry Truman, as quoted in Plain Speaking : An Oral Biography of Harry S Truman (1974) by Merle Miller, p. 26.
"Disinformation during the War in Iraq: The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform reported in July, 2008 that because top military and White House “striking lack of recollection,” responsibility could not be determined for official disinformation on the death of Pat Tillman in 2004, and the circumstances for the recovery of Jessica Lynch (66). Pat Tillman was the Pac-10 Defensive Player of the Year, and All-Pro linebacker for the Arizona Cardinals, breaking their single-season record for tackles. When Pat turned down a $3.6 million contract to join the US Army Rangers, he became a poster-boy for supporting the war.
Kevin Tillman, Pat’s brother who served with him, wrote that they discovered the War on Terror was an illegal invasion, subverted the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, included US torture of detainees, was all based on lies, and that American leadership had made a more dangerous world (67). One of Pat’s fellow soldiers reported Pat stating, “You know, this war is so f---ing illegal (68).” Pat’s mother, Mary Tillman, also says that Pat concluded the war was illegal (69), and that Pat arranged to meet with MIT Professor Noam Chomsky to discuss the illegality of the war (70). Given that Chomsky is one of the US’ strongest and most prolific spokespersons against the war, the probable result of such a meeting would be Chomsky and/or Tillman going public with their report. Mary Tillman would like to publicize Pat’s diary to confirm Pat’s exact impressions. However, the military informed her that his diary was “accidentally” completely burned, along with his uniform and body armor (perhaps these were destroyed to cover-up evidence that would have falsified the military’s report that Pat was killed by enemy fire to the chest). The official US story on Tillman’s death was that he died heroically engaging the enemy in a fierce firefight. After the public funeral and publicity, and five weeks after his death, the government acknowledged that Pat was killed by his own troops in “an accident.” Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the medical examiners of Pat’s body reported that he was killed by three shots to the forehead in a tight pattern, concluding the shots came from 10 yards or so away (71). Military personnel familiar with firing the specific weapon report that to have such a tight pattern with three rounds would require being no more than ten feet away, or the result of three separate snipers firing simultaneously (72). Because of this strong physical evidence, Army doctors requested an investigation for murder (fratricide). Both of their requests were denied. In addition, there was zero evidence of any enemy fire at the scene (no other person or equipment was shot and no shell casings were found), Special Forces snipers were among the unit that fired on Pat, Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails in keeping information away from the public and securing non-criminal reprimands, and the three-star general who managed the disinformation responded to over 70 specific questions from the official investigation with the answer, “I don’t remember.” (73)
"Noam Chomsky"? - Seriously?
Don't take this too far, but many of the people here remind me of the situation Jesus Christ found himself in, when many of the Jewish authorities in Israel refused to give him any credibility whatsoever. They were determined to believe their own narrative, no matter what. They weren't going to let a little thing like sense bother them.
And some of the people here remind me of a sergeant (Harper). He was pretty smart, but he like to say things just for the attention. We used to joke that the perfect solution was a circle of soldiers with Harper in the middle, all throwing rocks at him. The soldiers got to show how they liked his comments, and Harper got to be the center of attention. :chuckle:
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Tex,
B/B has probably done the best job of disputing what you're saying about Trump. Trump was not going to allow the Taliban to bully him or the USA and so it was a deal in progress, this much is true. Had the election not been obviously stolen by crooks then Trump would have been able to conclude the negotiations and get the USA out of there properly.
Were Biden's administration even remotely competent then they would have handled this situation far, far better than they did. The fiasco his moronic administration created will live in infamy as a black eye of how not to draw down from a country.
We never should have been there in the first place and many here have said the same thing.
This is a bit of intel to read about one particular aspect of that war.
Quote
“The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know.” – Harry Truman, as quoted in Plain Speaking : An Oral Biography of Harry S Truman (1974) by Merle Miller, p. 26.
"Disinformation during the War in Iraq: The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform reported in July, 2008 that because top military and White House “striking lack of recollection,” responsibility could not be determined for official disinformation on the death of Pat Tillman in 2004, and the circumstances for the recovery of Jessica Lynch (66). Pat Tillman was the Pac-10 Defensive Player of the Year, and All-Pro linebacker for the Arizona Cardinals, breaking their single-season record for tackles. When Pat turned down a $3.6 million contract to join the US Army Rangers, he became a poster-boy for supporting the war.
Kevin Tillman, Pat’s brother who served with him, wrote that they discovered the War on Terror was an illegal invasion, subverted the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, included US torture of detainees, was all based on lies, and that American leadership had made a more dangerous world (67). One of Pat’s fellow soldiers reported Pat stating, “You know, this war is so f---ing illegal (68).” Pat’s mother, Mary Tillman, also says that Pat concluded the war was illegal (69), and that Pat arranged to meet with MIT Professor Noam Chomsky to discuss the illegality of the war (70). Given that Chomsky is one of the US’ strongest and most prolific spokespersons against the war, the probable result of such a meeting would be Chomsky and/or Tillman going public with their report. Mary Tillman would like to publicize Pat’s diary to confirm Pat’s exact impressions. However, the military informed her that his diary was “accidentally” completely burned, along with his uniform and body armor (perhaps these were destroyed to cover-up evidence that would have falsified the military’s report that Pat was killed by enemy fire to the chest). The official US story on Tillman’s death was that he died heroically engaging the enemy in a fierce firefight. After the public funeral and publicity, and five weeks after his death, the government acknowledged that Pat was killed by his own troops in “an accident.” Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the medical examiners of Pat’s body reported that he was killed by three shots to the forehead in a tight pattern, concluding the shots came from 10 yards or so away (71). Military personnel familiar with firing the specific weapon report that to have such a tight pattern with three rounds would require being no more than ten feet away, or the result of three separate snipers firing simultaneously (72). Because of this strong physical evidence, Army doctors requested an investigation for murder (fratricide). Both of their requests were denied. In addition, there was zero evidence of any enemy fire at the scene (no other person or equipment was shot and no shell casings were found), Special Forces snipers were among the unit that fired on Pat, Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails in keeping information away from the public and securing non-criminal reprimands, and the three-star general who managed the disinformation responded to over 70 specific questions from the official investigation with the answer, “I don’t remember.” (73)
"Noam Chomsky"? - Seriously?
Don't take this too far, but many of the people here remind me of the situation Jesus Christ found himself in, when many of the Jewish authorities in Israel refused to give him any credibility whatsoever. They were determined to believe their own narrative, no matter what. They weren't going to let a little thing like sense bother them.
And some of the people here remind me of a sergeant (Harper). He was pretty smart, but he like to say things just for the attention. We used to joke that the perfect solution was a circle of soldiers with Harper in the middle, all throwing rocks at him. The soldiers got to show how they liked his comments, and Harper got to be the center of attention. :chuckle:
So now we know for sure, you're a controlled disinformation plant -- good to know!
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There are some posters that seriously need to reconsider there ‘medications’ and or dosages.
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The slow grinding loss of territory continues in the Donbas region. Analysis Featuring MP Richard Donnatt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dannatt
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Ukraine has lost the war.
Analysis by retired Marine Corp combat helicopter pilot and former Chief of the criminal law division.
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Ukraine has lost the war.
Analysis by retired Marine Corp combat helicopter pilot and former Chief of the criminal law division.
Compelling video! In short order Col. Richard Black conveyed not only did our hegemonic act needlessly sacrifice countless lives and led it directly unto a slaughter, we ushered European nations to partner with us and march our collective economies to the abyss in a misguided intent to unleash what backfired upon us. Biden is a f@#!ng fool. Amazes me leaders of European nation actually followed a fool's errand.
The gullible feasted mindlessly in the daily western media feed of peaches and roses to mask the gloom reality this US-orchestrated debacle caused on the tens of millions the world over. My country would be much better served if Americans would actually begin to exercise better discretion in our selection of public servants we vote to lead us, instead of being conned by the medias paid for by the money and lobbyists that resides in Washington.
I'm not sure what is the greater evil in this conflict: The US politicians behind this and led a nation to the slaughter; a leaders o that nation to mindlessly abide willingly unto that slaughter; or the slew of idiots who rallied behind all of these. Frankly, IMHO, it's all of the above.
Very interesting too at the end of the video where he actually mentioned Ukraine would be better served if it adopted a similar situation that Austria have today. I posted that proposal here o this board not too long ago (which I believe Markje opined Switzerland would be a much better situation). Ukraine can adopt any economic leaning of its choosing, while preserving its neutrality politically and militarily.
I am dismayed how so many of my country men are so easily conned these days, but also came to realize this isn't solely an American disease.
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Ukraine has lost the war.
Analysis by retired Marine Corp combat helicopter pilot and former Chief of the criminal law division.
Westcoast has asked for an authoritative voice regarding Ukraine. this man appears to be qualified. Since he is retired, he isn't beholden to anyone, and doesn't appear to be a shill, so his opinion should carry some weight.
I have to question a number or 2 he brought up. He stated that Russia is firing 50,000 shells a day....yet 200 Ukrainians killed daily, 1000 injured. around 250 shells per Ukrainian death. Number seems odd to me.
Overall, he made a very strong case for why Ukraine needs to surrender asap. the west has failed to create a revolt against putin RUssia surplus bigger than ever. World resents US imposing rules..as he said it undermines us overall. West suffering more than Russia. I think longer erm implications also harmful to US...as nations less willing to cooperate with our demands.
Jonas!
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Ukraine has lost the war.
Analysis by retired Marine Corp combat helicopter pilot and former Chief of the criminal law division.
Westcoast has asked for an authoritative voice regarding Ukraine. this man appears to be qualified. Since he is retired, he isn't beholden to anyone, and doesn't appear to be a shill, so his opinion should carry some weight.
I have to question a number or 2 he brought up. He stated that Russia is firing 50,000 shells a day....yet 200 Ukrainians killed daily, 1000 injured. around 250 shells per Ukrainian death. Number seems odd to me.
Why is the number of Ukrainian deaths per Russian artillery shell fired odd? Is there a source that says how many approximate deaths should occur per artillery shell fired?
Overall, he made a very strong case for why Ukraine needs to surrender asap. the west has failed to create a revolt against putin RUssia surplus bigger than ever. World resents US imposing rules..as he said it undermines us overall. West suffering more than Russia. I think longer erm implications also harmful to US...as nations less willing to cooperate with our demands.
Jonas!
Jonas the people of Ukraine do not want to surrender. In the poll conducted by the Kiev International Institute of Sociology between May 13-18 and released on Tuesday, 82% of respondents said they did not support territorial concessions, even if it prolonged the war and increased the threat to Ukraine's independence. 77% of Ukrainians living in Russian-occupied territory opposed any land concessions.
Isn't it up to the Ukrainians to decide when or if they want to surrender? If Ukrainians want to go down fighting isn't that their choice?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eighty-two-percent-ukrainians-oppose-territorial-concessions-poll-2022-05-24/
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Why is the number of Ukrainian deaths per Russian artillery shell fired odd? Is there a source that says how many approximate deaths should occur per artillery shell fired?
It seems that firing 250 shells and it producing 1 death is low. I have no sources; that is an observation based on the numbers the man gave.
Jonas the people of Ukraine do not want to surrender. In the poll conducted by the Kiev International Institute of Sociology between May 13-18 and released on Tuesday, 82% of respondents said they did not support territorial concessions, even if it prolonged the war and increased the threat to Ukraine's independence. 77% of Ukrainians living in Russian-occupied territory opposed any land concessions.
Isn't it up to the Ukrainians to decide when or if they want to surrender? If Ukrainians want to go down fighting isn't that their choice?
I posted this comment for YOU, not for the 'people of Ukraine'. Rather than address the issue it raises, you have changed the subject. If the man was accurate in what he said, and the Ukrainians are being misled into a pointless slaughter then it definitely in large part the west's fault.
Zelensky states 2610 cities & villages are under Russian controls now. that number isn't getting smaller. If what the col. says is accurate, it will grow all the time.
the best chance for the most lives saved is to know when you are beaten. If Ukrainians are being fed misinformation and thinking they are going to prevail, I'd say that is a very questionable tactic the US is employing...for strictly our own purposes. I don' think Russia will permit defeat, it seems more people are coming around to that realization.
Jonas!
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Why is the number of Ukrainian deaths per Russian artillery shell fired odd? Is there a source that says how many approximate deaths should occur per artillery shell fired?
It seems that firing 250 shells and it producing 1 death is low. I have no sources; that is an observation based on the numbers the man gave.
Jonas the people of Ukraine do not want to surrender. In the poll conducted by the Kiev International Institute of Sociology between May 13-18 and released on Tuesday, 82% of respondents said they did not support territorial concessions, even if it prolonged the war and increased the threat to Ukraine's independence. 77% of Ukrainians living in Russian-occupied territory opposed any land concessions.
Isn't it up to the Ukrainians to decide when or if they want to surrender? If Ukrainians want to go down fighting isn't that their choice?
I posted this comment for YOU, not for the 'people of Ukraine'. Rather than address the issue it raises, you have changed the subject. If the man was accurate in what he said, and the Ukrainians are being misled into a pointless slaughter then it definitely in large part the west's fault.
Zelensky states 2610 cities & villages are under Russian controls now. that number isn't getting smaller. If what the col. says is accurate, it will grow all the time.
the best chance for the most lives saved is to know when you are beaten. If Ukrainians are being fed misinformation and thinking they are going to prevail, I'd say that is a very questionable tactic the US is employing...for strictly our own purposes. I don' think Russia will permit defeat, it seems more people are coming around to that realization.
Jonas!
Jonas, neither you or I know anything about war, when to fight or when to stop fighting. It's also not up to Col. Black to decide when the people of Ukraine should stop fighting.
I don't see how the Ukrainian military and government can be misled into how they're performing in the war? They know how many cities and towns are under Russian occupation. They know how about many Ukrainian civilians are being killed and injured. They know how many Ukrainian soldiers are being killed and injured. They know how much military equipment they have left.
How exactly is the US feeding the Ukrainian government/military misinformation and convincing the Ukrainians they are going to prevail? I keep hearing this from other RUA members but no one wants to say how the USA is doing it. Why? Even when it comes to satellite photos of Russian positions much of that is coming from private sources.
You say you posted this for me, OK IMO if the people of Ukraine want to keep on fighting they should keep on fighting.
https://www.space.com/russia-ukraine-invasion-satellite-photos
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Jonas, neither you or I know anything about war, when to fight or when to stop fighting. It's also not up to Col. Black to decide when the people of Ukraine should stop fighting.
I don't see how the Ukrainian military and government can be misled into how they're performing in the war? They know how many cities and towns are under Russian occupation. They know how about many Ukrainian civilians are being killed and injured. They know how many Ukrainian soldiers are being killed and injured. They know how much military equipment they have left.
How exactly is the US feeding the Ukrainian government/military misinformation and convincing the Ukrainians they are going to prevail? I keep hearing this from other RUA members but no one wants to say how the USA is doing it. Why? Even when it comes to satellite photos of Russian positions much of that is coming from private sources.
You say you posted this for me, OK IMO if the people of Ukraine want to keep on fighting they should keep on fighting.
I'd say we have egged hem on to continue fighting....for our own purposes of course.
to mislead we can propagandize them through the media. I see stories every day that prove to be false. I believe it can be effective for now...
we can keep feeding hem some weaponry and ultimately more of them die while on a mission from NATO but fruitless mission for themselves. It seems we have really suckered the Ukrainians'...for now.
Jonas!
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Jonas, neither you or I know anything about war, when to fight or when to stop fighting. It's also not up to Col. Black to decide when the people of Ukraine should stop fighting.
I don't see how the Ukrainian military and government can be misled into how they're performing in the war? They know how many cities and towns are under Russian occupation. They know how about many Ukrainian civilians are being killed and injured. They know how many Ukrainian soldiers are being killed and injured. They know how much military equipment they have left.
How exactly is the US feeding the Ukrainian government/military misinformation and convincing the Ukrainians they are going to prevail? I keep hearing this from other RUA members but no one wants to say how the USA is doing it. Why? Even when it comes to satellite photos of Russian positions much of that is coming from private sources.
You say you posted this for me, OK IMO if the people of Ukraine want to keep on fighting they should keep on fighting.
I'd say we have egged hem on to continue fighting....for our own purposes of course.
to mislead we can propagandize them through the media. I see stories every day that prove to be false. I believe it can be effective for now...
we can keep feeding hem some weaponry and ultimately more of them die while on a mission from NATO but fruitless mission for themselves. It seems we have really suckered the Ukrainians'...for now.
Jonas!
Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
Ukrainians in the Russian occupied areas of the Donbas have seen what goes on everyday and yet they still want to continue fighting by an overwhelming margin.
I have to say let them fight if that's what they want. BTW I contributed $1K to a non profit sending medical and humanitarian aid to Ukraine.
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Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
I doubt Ukrainians are any dumber than the rest of us. they probably trust us in the US more than they do Russians nowadays....and maybe that is not wise for them. Before this started in 2014 the Russians had ties to Ukraine and a lot of intermingling. Russia wanted them in their orbit of course, but they also had some care as brethren . the US has zero care, and just wants to use Ukraine as a lever against Russia. I'd say US plan working in that regard so far...
Jonas!
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Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
I doubt Ukrainians are any dumber than the rest of us. they probably trust us in the US more than they do Russians nowadays....and maybe that is not wise for them. Before this started in 2014 the Russians had ties to Ukraine and a lot of intermingling. Russia wanted them in their orbit of course, but they also had some care as brethren . the US has zero care, and just wants to use Ukraine as a lever against Russia. I'd say US plan working in that regard so far...
Jonas!
It's reasonable to think Putin has no feelings for Ukrainians after all the Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed by the Russian military.
Lots of Ukrainians moving to the EU probably many coming to the US. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K.
As I've been told by Chinese fleeing mainland China, it's not so much that Canada is much better than mainland China, it's that mainland China is so much worse than Canada.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-launches-new-program-to-welcome-ukraine-refugees-but-no-longer-through-mexico
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Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
I doubt Ukrainians are any dumber than the rest of us. they probably trust us in the US more than they do Russians nowadays....and maybe that is not wise for them. Before this started in 2014 the Russians had ties to Ukraine and a lot of intermingling. Russia wanted them in their orbit of course, but they also had some care as brethren . the US has zero care, and just wants to use Ukraine as a lever against Russia. I'd say US plan working in that regard so far...
Jonas!
It's reasonable to think Putin has no feelings for Ukrainians after all the Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed by the Russian military.
Lots of Ukrainians moving to the EU probably many coming to the US. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K.
US has become the chief enemy, while the Ukrainians are the ones taking the casualties. US is just fine with aiding them along to death. Ukrainian lives are not much of a factor for our goals, in the region. Nord Stream 2 has been scuttled now so we can take that off the bucket list!
We had a choice unlike Russia who's hand I would say was more forced. I'm not sure he US realized how determined Russia would be in Ukraine, but it seemed apparent to me what we are seeing now was the most likely oucome. .
Jonas!
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Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
I doubt Ukrainians are any dumber than the rest of us. they probably trust us in the US more than they do Russians nowadays....and maybe that is not wise for them. Before this started in 2014 the Russians had ties to Ukraine and a lot of intermingling. Russia wanted them in their orbit of course, but they also had some care as brethren . the US has zero care, and just wants to use Ukraine as a lever against Russia. I'd say US plan working in that regard so far...
Jonas!
It's reasonable to think Putin has no feelings for Ukrainians after all the Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed by the Russian military.
Lots of Ukrainians moving to the EU probably many coming to the US. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K.
US has become the chief enemy, while the Ukrainians are the ones taking the casualties. US is just fine with aiding them along to death. Ukrainian lives are not much of a factor for our goals, in the region. Nord Stream 2 has been scuttled now so we can take that off the bucket list!
We had a choice unlike Russia who's hand I would say was more forced. I'm not sure he US realized how determined Russia would be in Ukraine, but it seemed apparent to me what we are seeing now was the most likely oucome. .
Jonas!
Except it's the Russians killing the Ukrainians by the thousands not the Americans. The Ukrainians are dying by the thousands because they don't want to live under Russian domination. As Putin slowly gains more territory in Ukraine he will over time tend to kick the Ukrainians out and settle more Russians in occupied territory and Russify the occupied territories.
If, in your opinion, Russia's been forced to intervene IOW invade and kill thousands of Ukrainians because Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO then shouldn't the US and NATO be able to invade and conquer Kaliningrad because Kaliningrad is heavily militarized probably has nukes and is in between EU and/or NATO countries?
I'm sure knowing Kaliningrad is so heavily militarized and probably has nukes makes many nearby EU and NATO countries very nervous. These countries would probably be less nervous if Kaliningrad was demilitarized and derussified something somewhat similar to what Putin is trying to do with Ukraine.
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Except it's the Russians killing the Ukrainians by the thousands not the Americans. The Ukrainians are dying by the thousands because they don't want to live under Russian domination. As Putin slowly gains more territory in Ukraine he will over time tend to kick the Ukrainians out and settle more Russians in occupied territory and Russify the occupied territories.
Yes, I think Putin has a lot of incentive now to russify anything they conquer, and dispatch Ukrainians one way or another. this should have been seen as a likely outcome before we got ourselves involved and ensured the situation would escalate
If, in your opinion, Russia's been forced to intervene IOW invade and kill thousands of Ukrainians because Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO then shouldn't the US and NATO be able to invade and conquer Kaliningrad because Kaliningrad is heavily militarized probably has nukes and is in between EU and/or NATO countries?
I'm sure knowing Kaliningrad is so heavily militarized and probably has nukes makes many nearby EU and NATO countries very nervous. These countries would probably be less nervous if Kaliningrad was demilitarized and derussified something somewhat similar to what Putin is trying to do with Ukraine.
Kaliningrad is secure since Russia would react massively to an attack. I don't think the US should be involved agitating with Kaliningrad in any way.
Jonas!
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Except it's the Russians killing the Ukrainians by the thousands not the Americans. The Ukrainians are dying by the thousands because they don't want to live under Russian domination. As Putin slowly gains more territory in Ukraine he will over time tend to kick the Ukrainians out and settle more Russians in occupied territory and Russify the occupied territories.
Yes, I think Putin has a lot of incentive now to russify anything they conquer, and dispatch Ukrainians one way or another. this should have been seen as a likely outcome before we got ourselves involved and ensured the situation would escalate
IMO the US/NATO should have provided Ukraine with much more firepower sooner. As Col. Black said Russia is firing 50K artillery rounds a day. The Russian artillery is also probably able to fire farther than the artillery used by the Ukrainian military. If the Ukrainian military had artillery equal to or better than the Russians and an endless supply of shells it just might be a more equal contest.
If, in your opinion, Russia's been forced to intervene IOW invade and kill thousands of Ukrainians because Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO then shouldn't the US and NATO be able to invade and conquer Kaliningrad because Kaliningrad is heavily militarized probably has nukes and is in between EU and/or NATO countries?
I'm sure knowing Kaliningrad is so heavily militarized and probably has nukes makes many nearby EU and NATO countries very nervous. These countries would probably be less nervous if Kaliningrad was demilitarized and derussified something somewhat similar to what Putin is trying to do with Ukraine.
Kaliningrad is secure since Russia would react massively to an attack. I don't think the US should be involved agitating with Kaliningrad in any way.
Jonas!
You're saying Russia feels its sphere of influence is threatened if Ukraine joins the EU and/or NATO because Ukraine is on Russia's doorstep.
The same thing applies to Kaliningrad. Kaliningrad is on NATO/EU doorstep and NATO and/or EU countries around Kaliningrad feel threatened by its presence. Therefore NATO and the EU have just as much right to invade and conquer Kaliningrad as Russia has to invade and conquer Ukraine.
Would Russia react very violently to any invasion of Kaliningrad by NATO even if Kaliningrad wanted independence? Surely if Kaliningrad wanted independence Putin would allow it, after all he's insisting that the Donbas and Crimea be free because their citizens want freedom from Ukraine?
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Jonas!
You tend to put russua in a bix of they had no choice.
They could have had nordstream.2, they could have had eu never looking elsewhere for fuel.
Yes they may have lost a sphere of influence in Ukraine, not from anything other than years if their own meddling there to the point of causing the 04 orange revolution.
They could have had ukraine as a bride,they did not choose to court her.
Blame the west as many do,but hopefully some of you recognize that russia has had ukraines entire life as a nation to make any meddling by outsiders moot.
That's apathey and arrogance, and a choice to strongarm.
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If, in your opinion, Russia's been forced to intervene IOW invade and kill thousands of Ukrainians because Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO then shouldn't the US and NATO be able to invade and conquer Kaliningrad because Kaliningrad is heavily militarized probably has nukes and is in between EU and/or NATO countries?
Dealing in reality, none of this is possible.
The same thing applies to Kaliningrad. Kaliningrad is on NATO/EU doorstep and NATO and/or EU countries around Kaliningrad feel threatened by its presence. Therefore NATO and the EU have just as much right to invade and conquer Kaliningrad as Russia has to invade and conquer Ukraine.
Would Russia react very violently to any invasion of Kaliningrad by NATO even if Kaliningrad wanted independence? Surely if Kaliningrad wanted independence Putin would allow it, after all he's insisting that the Donbas and Crimea be free because their citizens want freedom from Ukraine?
Once again, the hypotheticals aren't reality of the world.
Russia had its red line which was being crossed. there will probably come a day where a US red line is crossed ...probably in a faraway region.... and the same people chastising Russia will then be excusing the US red line or very lightly protesting.
Jonas!
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They could have had nordstream.2, they could have had eu never looking elsewhere for fuel.
I'm not sure about that. the US seemed very determined to undermine it...had this Ukraine maneuver not worked they probably would have found another way to make it go away.
Jonas!
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Jonas!
You tend to put russua in a bix of they had no choice.
They could have had nordstream.2, they could have had eu never looking elsewhere for fuel.
Yes they may have lost a sphere of influence in Ukraine, not from anything other than years if their own meddling there to the point of causing the 04 orange revolution.
They could have had ukraine as a bride,they did not choose to court her.
Blame the west as many do,but hopefully some of you recognize that russia has had ukraines entire life as a nation to make any meddling by outsiders moot.
That's apathey and arrogance, and a choice to strongarm.
AJ,
Are you saying that one attracts more flies with honey, in a round about way? Definitely agree with you. At this stage of affairs it's very sad to see so many Ukrainian soldiers and civilians dying. More than likely senior military leaders in Ukraine know that they must make some very difficult decisions rather quickly.
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Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
I doubt Ukrainians are any dumber than the rest of us. they probably trust us in the US more than they do Russians nowadays....and maybe that is not wise for them. Before this started in 2014 the Russians had ties to Ukraine and a lot of intermingling. Russia wanted them in their orbit of course, but they also had some care as brethren . the US has zero care, and just wants to use Ukraine as a lever against Russia. I'd say US plan working in that regard so far...
Jonas!
It's reasonable to think Putin has no feelings for Ukrainians after all the Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed by the Russian military.
Lots of Ukrainians moving to the EU probably many coming to the US. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K.
US has become the chief enemy, while the Ukrainians are the ones taking the casualties. US is just fine with aiding them along to death. Ukrainian lives are not much of a factor for our goals, in the region. Nord Stream 2 has been scuttled now so we can take that off the bucket list!
We had a choice unlike Russia who's hand I would say was more forced. I'm not sure he US realized how determined Russia would be in Ukraine, but it seemed apparent to me what we are seeing now was the most likely oucome. .
Jonas!
Except it's the Russians killing the Ukrainians by the thousands not the Americans. The Ukrainians are dying by the thousands because they don't want to live under Russian domination. As Putin slowly gains more territory in Ukraine he will over time tend to kick the Ukrainians out and settle more Russians in occupied territory and Russify the occupied territories.
If, in your opinion, Russia's been forced to intervene IOW invade and kill thousands of Ukrainians because Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO then shouldn't the US and NATO be able to invade and conquer Kaliningrad because Kaliningrad is heavily militarized probably has nukes and is in between EU and/or NATO countries?
I'm sure knowing Kaliningrad is so heavily militarized and probably has nukes makes many nearby EU and NATO countries very nervous. These countries would probably be less nervous if Kaliningrad was demilitarized and derussified something somewhat similar to what Putin is trying to do with Ukraine.
Still stuck in reverse I see.
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Jonas for what you say to be true Ukrainians would have to be very simple minded people. Their IQs would have to be very low. They've seen the Russian disinformation campaigns put out by Russia. I doubt they'd be fooled by any disinformation campaign put out by the US and/or the EU. These people have lived with the reality of war and invasion by Russia since 2014.
I doubt Ukrainians are any dumber than the rest of us. they probably trust us in the US more than they do Russians nowadays....and maybe that is not wise for them. Before this started in 2014 the Russians had ties to Ukraine and a lot of intermingling. Russia wanted them in their orbit of course, but they also had some care as brethren . the US has zero care, and just wants to use Ukraine as a lever against Russia. I'd say US plan working in that regard so far...
Jonas!
It's reasonable to think Putin has no feelings for Ukrainians after all the Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed by the Russian military.
Lots of Ukrainians moving to the EU probably many coming to the US. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K.
US has become the chief enemy, while the Ukrainians are the ones taking the casualties. US is just fine with aiding them along to death. Ukrainian lives are not much of a factor for our goals, in the region. Nord Stream 2 has been scuttled now so we can take that off the bucket list!
We had a choice unlike Russia who's hand I would say was more forced. I'm not sure he US realized how determined Russia would be in Ukraine, but it seemed apparent to me what we are seeing now was the most likely oucome. .
Jonas!
Except it's the Russians killing the Ukrainians by the thousands not the Americans. The Ukrainians are dying by the thousands because they don't want to live under Russian domination. As Putin slowly gains more territory in Ukraine he will over time tend to kick the Ukrainians out and settle more Russians in occupied territory and Russify the occupied territories.
If, in your opinion, Russia's been forced to intervene IOW invade and kill thousands of Ukrainians because Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO then shouldn't the US and NATO be able to invade and conquer Kaliningrad because Kaliningrad is heavily militarized probably has nukes and is in between EU and/or NATO countries?
I'm sure knowing Kaliningrad is so heavily militarized and probably has nukes makes many nearby EU and NATO countries very nervous. These countries would probably be less nervous if Kaliningrad was demilitarized and derussified something somewhat similar to what Putin is trying to do with Ukraine.
Still stuck in reverse I see.
Rosco haven't heard from you in a while. Finally sobered up? You Brits do love to drink.
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
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So now we know for sure, you're a controlled disinformation plant -- good to know!
You've got me tiphat
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There are some posters that seriously need to reconsider there ‘medications’ and or dosages.
lol :chuckle:
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Nice comments, but some observations. Col (Ret) Black was a pilot in the marine corps, then a lawyer in the army (most of his 34 years). Not taking anything away from the man.
As a lawyer, discount his (may be unfair) military expertise. I suspect we overlap, his combat comments were about Gulf War I (I believe). Among other things (Airborne, Ranger, NATO Tank Gunnery CAT competitor, Golden Saber at Hood, the Army's chief of Military History said I hade the best program "west of the Alleghenies". ) I was chief, military history, at the Armor Center. All the 0-6's (Colonels) went thru here before assuming command. I was pretty aware of the officers with a "bent" towards military analyses and affairs, I don't remember hearing his name. Doesn't mean he's not the greatest thing since sliced bread. :8)
Use of WP (and other leftist media) of a source - not esp. informed.
Class III (ammunition) observations good for generalizations only. Unsaid, but true, western weapons (artillery) require western ammunition, there's not a lot of it. When the media reports some country is sending Ukraine 4, 6, 10 artillery. The realistic response is "seriously"?
Black is very concerned about "what the media is saying". Russia doesn't care about Ukraine's media "spin" (which is better than theirs).
When deciding on "victory" - we don't know (or shouldn't know) what is "victory" for each side. Note that each side can change their definition of "victory".
Is Ukraine "losing"? It is losing ground slowly, it is taking casualties, etc.
An argument can be made that western and Ukrainian elites don't care about losses, more interested in the "money train".
An argument can be made that Ukraine's reaction (much different from 2014) is akin to Russia rushing into a "buzz saw".
No matter what happens, Russia will think twice before they ever militarily intervene in Ukraine in the future.
Think the 1939 "Winter War" between the Soviet Union and Finland. The Soviet Union bullied all three Baltic states before getting around to Finland. After Finland, it stopped.
In that sense, if Ukraine can make this so unpleasant (i.e. casualties) that Russia makes a deal just to get out of the mess. This also means Ukrainian casualties.
Reality - Russia, Ukraine (all the Slavic countries) look at loss of life differently than the west does. Just sayn'.
If that is true (making Ukraine unpleasant), then Ukrainian and Western leaders inflammatory comments re: Russia and Putin aren't helping matters.
It's "pushing" the Russians into "showing" that they are not to be trifled with. Just like in a classroom, after a fight, there's going to be a post-fight situation. Mouthing off about the other guy (serious insults) will simply make them less inclined to end any fight early.
My 2 cents. :8)
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Nice comments, but some observations. Col (Ret) Black was a pilot in the marine corps, then a lawyer in the army (most of his 34 years). Not taking anything away from the man.
As a lawyer, discount his (may be unfair) military expertise. I suspect we overlap, his combat comments were about Gulf War I (I believe). Among other things (Airborne, Ranger, NATO Tank Gunnery CAT competitor, Golden Saber at Hood, the Army's chief of Military History said I hade the best program "west of the Alleghenies". ) I was chief, military history, at the Armor Center. All the 0-6's (Colonels) went thru here before assuming command. I was pretty aware of the officers with a "bent" towards military analyses and affairs, I don't remember hearing his name. Doesn't mean he's not the greatest thing since sliced bread. :8)
Use of WP (and other leftist media) of a source - not esp. informed.
Class III (ammunition) observations good for generalizations only. Unsaid, but true, western weapons (artillery) require western ammunition, there's not a lot of it. When the media reports some country is sending Ukraine 4, 6, 10 artillery. The realistic response is "seriously"?
Black is very concerned about "what the media is saying". Russia doesn't care about Ukraine's media "spin" (which is better than theirs).
When deciding on "victory" - we don't know (or shouldn't know) what is "victory" for each side. Note that each side can change their definition of "victory".
Is Ukraine "losing"? It is losing ground slowly, it is taking casualties, etc.
An argument can be made that western and Ukrainian elites don't care about losses, more interested in the "money train".
An argument can be made that Ukraine's reaction (much different from 2014) is akin to Russia rushing into a "buzz saw".
No matter what happens, Russia will think twice before they ever militarily intervene in Ukraine in the future.
Think the 1939 "Winter War" between the Soviet Union and Finland. The Soviet Union bullied all three Baltic states before getting around to Finland. After Finland, it stopped.
In that sense, if Ukraine can make this so unpleasant (i.e. casualties) that Russia makes a deal just to get out of the mess. This also means Ukrainian casualties.
Reality - Russia, Ukraine (all the Slavic countries) look at loss of life differently than the west does. Just sayn'.
If that is true (making Ukraine unpleasant), then Ukrainian and Western leaders inflammatory comments re: Russia and Putin aren't helping matters.
It's "pushing" the Russians into "showing" that they are not to be trifled with. Just like in a classroom, after a fight, there's going to be a post-fight situation. Mouthing off about the other guy (serious insults) will simply make them less inclined to end any fight early.
My 2 cents. :8)
I'd agree with a lot of that.
I think a victory for Ukraine would be to win back all their land including Crimea and send Russia home with their tails between their legs. This is never going to happen and their best bet is to hang it out until winter and hope it gets too unpleasant, as you say. It's my opinion that Ukraine really needs to find a cease fire option through dialogue sooner rather than later but it seems like nobody is willing to do that right now, otherwise we'd have a string of Western leaders urging Russia to meet with a needy Zelensky.
We honestly dont know what victory for Russia looks like and as Andrew has said on many an occasion, what victory looks like will continue to shift as the events on the ground do. I think an early win and no western meddling would have seen Crimea and the Eastern civil war territories brought under Russian control and be left at that. Russia now feels like its fighting a proxy war with the west and I suspect they're looking for a bit more control, given whats at stake.
Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
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Use of WP (and other leftist media) of a source - not esp. informed.
This is why you're stuck in neutral in the box they put you into with the massive amount of brainwashing and indoctrination you've been through.
You're not capable of reading some "leftist media" in a constructive pro-active way and you're especially not capable of reading what the CIA mind controllers derisively call conspiracy theorist media.
While you "get it" that this war is about profiteering you don't get many other things.
Just my two cents. :-*
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I think a victory for Ukraine would be to win back all their land including Crimea and send Russia home with their tails between their legs. This is never going to happen and their best bet is to hang it out until winter and hope it gets too unpleasant, as you say. It's my opinion that Ukraine really needs to find a cease fire option through dialogue sooner rather than later but it seems like nobody is willing to do that right now, otherwise we'd have a string of Western leaders urging Russia to meet with a needy Zelensky.
We honestly dont know what victory for Russia looks like and as Andrew has said on many an occasion, what victory looks like will continue to shift as the events on the ground do. I think an early win and no western meddling would have seen Crimea and the Eastern civil war territories brought under Russian control and be left at that. Russia now feels like its fighting a proxy war with the west and I suspect they're looking for a bit more control, given whats at stake.
Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
Very good analysis. :thumbsup:
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
With each of your replies, you prove how far behind the group you are. I suggest you re-read the thread and then ask questions so people can spoon feed you. Assisted learning I believe it's called? However I will be charitable because its Monday - right now Ukraine's best defence is diplomacy and peace talks. As it stands today, Zelensky isn't interested in talking, whilst being egged on by war mongers in the West.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-01/ukraines-best-chance-peace
I've said it before, you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
With each of your replies, you prove how far behind the group you are. I suggest you re-read the thread and then ask questions so people can spoon feed you. Assisted learning I believe it's called? However I will be charitable because its Monday - right now Ukraine's best defence is diplomacy and peace talks. As it stands today, Zelensky isn't interested in talking, whilst being egged on by war mongers in the West.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-01/ukraines-best-chance-peace
I've said it before, you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.
Why would neutrality work? An overwhelming majority of Ukrainians do not want to give up land for peace. How is it that you, Rosco, know more about what Ukrainians want then the Ukrainians themselves?
Think about that for a moment, you're thinking is directly opposite to what the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians think even the Ukrainians living in Russian occupied areas of Ukraine. Do you believe that the vast majority of Ukrainians are too stupid to realize that US and EU aid will come with a price tag? Ukrainians know there'll be a price to be paid for American and EU aid it's just that they'd rather pay that price then the tribute that Putin will demand for being in Russia's sphere of influence.
If you believe you're right you're either an imbecile and a shill for Russia. I'd say some combination of both is the most likely.
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
Ok so if someone pulls out a gun and says 'hands up', your idea is to dare them to shoot you?
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
Ok so if someone pulls out a gun and says 'hands up', your idea is to dare them to shoot you?
Tell me Markje what should Ukrainians have done when Russian tanks came rolling in Ukraine? Begged Putin for forgiveness?
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
Ok so if someone pulls out a gun and says 'hands up', your idea is to dare them to shoot you?
Tell me Markje what should Ukrainians have done when Russian tanks came rolling in Ukraine? Begged Putin for forgiveness?
No, it was too late to do anything. They should have invested in their army years ago. All they can do now is lose and try to limit casualties.
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
With each of your replies, you prove how far behind the group you are. I suggest you re-read the thread and then ask questions so people can spoon feed you. Assisted learning I believe it's called? However I will be charitable because its Monday - right now Ukraine's best defence is diplomacy and peace talks. As it stands today, Zelensky isn't interested in talking, whilst being egged on by war mongers in the West.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-01/ukraines-best-chance-peace
I've said it before, you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.
you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.. He is more than a simpleton.. the guy is a total retard.. completely retarded .. obviously still single what women would ever want such a retard.. why is the guy even here?? Is there a button on the forum you can press not an ignore button a button that just electrocutes the idiot!!
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Mark, to be fair, a huge amount was invested in the army. Albeit from foreign money.
They were taught to fight the wrong war in the wrong way against an opponent whose productive capacity outstrips the manufacturing capacity of all of its opponents together.
Later on, there might be a discussion about how every intelligence agency of the collective west got Russia's manufacturing capacity so wrong.
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Westcoast, it appears that you've been drinking excessive amounts of alcohol, if you've found the need to suggest that it would be sensible to invade Kaliningrad and you think that giving Ukraine more artillery would even the odds.
Please tell me you've heard of nuclear warheads and that you understand the role of air superiority? Russia haven't exactly dominated it but had Ukraine been setting up pieces of artillery en masse, I'd suspect it would get flattened straightaway, from air and sea.
I'd like to think that you know this but you continue to test the patience of many posters, with your silliness.
According to you and a few others the only acceptable method of defense Ukraine should of used as Russia's tanks came rolling into Ukraine is rose petals on the streets, dancing girls and Ukrainian babushkas cooking the Russian soldiers homemade Russian meals.
With each of your replies, you prove how far behind the group you are. I suggest you re-read the thread and then ask questions so people can spoon feed you. Assisted learning I believe it's called? However I will be charitable because its Monday - right now Ukraine's best defence is diplomacy and peace talks. As it stands today, Zelensky isn't interested in talking, whilst being egged on by war mongers in the West.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-01/ukraines-best-chance-peace
I've said it before, you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.
you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.. He is more than a simpleton.. the guy is a total retard.. completely retarded .. obviously still single what women would ever want such a retard.. why is the guy even here?? Is there a button on the forum you can press not an ignore button a button that just electrocutes the idiot!!
Steveboy I thought you were ignoring me? Steveboy I was here before you.
Rosco you talk about "the group", why should I think like the rest of you? You're sitting on a barstool somewhere in the UK downing pints of beer as fast as you can. Really why would I want to think like you?
Rosco and Steveboy the people of Ukraine overwhelming do not want to cede territory for a peace treaty. How narcissistic of both of you to think you know what is better for Ukraine than the Ukrainians defending their country.
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Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
I have my doubts the US has learned its lesson. he US hasn't' lost miliary members. there are still a lot of people that don't' get there are 2 sides to the story. I doubt Russia will be invading regions unnecessarily, since they are taking a hit militarily.
It is possible he next time the US wants to 'bring freedom' to a region, there wont' be a strong deterrent not to...with Russian forces depleted.
Jonas!
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Mark, to be fair, a huge amount was invested in the army. Albeit from foreign money.
Umm, I sure didn't see that from 2008 - 2018 (say) , I only saw increase military spending around 2021, when there was rumours of huge amounts of troops circling the RU/UA border.
The latter is much too late of course.
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Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
I doubt Russia will be invading regions unnecessarily, since they are taking a hit militarily.
Jonas!
Russia contends its military losses are nowhere near what has been reported by Ukraine and western sources. Even if Russian losses are equal to what Ukraine and western sources say they are, Russia could still easily invade and conquer Moldova and many of the stan countries whose militaries are much smaller than Ukraine's. These countries also have significant Russian populations that might aid a Russian invasion and occupation.
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Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
I doubt Russia will be invading regions unnecessarily, since they are taking a hit militarily.
Jonas!
Russia contends its military losses are nowhere near what has been reported by Ukraine and western sources. Even if Russian losses are equal to what Ukraine and western sources say they are, Russia could still easily invade and conquer Moldova and many of the stan countries whose militaries are much smaller than Ukraine's. These countries also have significant Russian populations that might aid a Russian invasion and occupation.
Part of the Lesson Rosco was teaching is to not put Russia in a position where they feel that they have to start attacking. NAto is aggressive around the globe and that is alarming to non NATO members.
Jonas!
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This is why you're stuck in neutral in the box they put you into with the massive amount of brainwashing and indoctrination you've been through.
You're not capable of reading some "leftist media" in a constructive pro-active way and you're especially not capable of reading what the CIA mind controllers derisively call conspiracy theorist media.
While you "get it" that this war is about profiteering you don't get many other things.
Just my two cents. :-*
Just another penny ... why would I spend time trying to sort out BS from occasional non-BS. I believe Wiz can talk you (to death) about Aesop's "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". tiphat
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I think a victory for Ukraine would be to win back all their land including Crimea and send Russia home with their tails between their legs. This is never going to happen and their best bet is to hang it out until winter and hope it gets too unpleasant, as you say. It's my opinion that Ukraine really needs to find a cease fire option through dialogue sooner rather than later but it seems like nobody is willing to do that right now, otherwise we'd have a string of Western leaders urging Russia to meet with a needy Zelensky.
We honestly dont know what victory for Russia looks like and as Andrew has said on many an occasion, what victory looks like will continue to shift as the events on the ground do. I think an early win and no western meddling would have seen Crimea and the Eastern civil war territories brought under Russian control and be left at that. Russia now feels like its fighting a proxy war with the west and I suspect they're looking for a bit more control, given whats at stake.
Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
I think that's all fair comment.
The underlying factor is though that Zelensky could have avoided this conflict by simply doing what he had already agreed to do and doing what he was voted in to do. He's had ample opportunity to make a reasonable deal and have it stop tomorrow. We don't know for sure if it's the marching powder, the pressure from the US or the illicit gains to be had keeping him going. But something is. And it isn't about the people of Ukraine for him and his handlers, it never was.
I agree that without western intervention, Russia would have secured just the east, connected Crimea and stopped there. Zelensky would have rolled over and done what he was voted in to do. Lugansk and Donetsk would likely have remained autonomous regions of Ukraine. But Russia is now fighting the collective west, in a war everyone knows Ukraine will lose by whatever measure you choose to use.
This is the one and only opportunity the US has (they think) to weaken Russia. That it isn't working is making them even more desperate. It's a US -v- Russia war in all but name.
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Hopefully lessons will be learned on all sides after this and by that I mean both the West and Russia. The West have been reminded exactly how far Russia will go if you push them into a corner and how it'll affect the entire planet. Russia have hopefully learned that conflict needs to be avoided at all costs and that they're not able to simply steam roller their way through with conventional warfare.
The costs for everyone is alarming but more so the poor Ukrainians, with the daily slaughter.
I doubt Russia will be invading regions unnecessarily, since they are taking a hit militarily.
Jonas!
Russia contends its military losses are nowhere near what has been reported by Ukraine and western sources. Even if Russian losses are equal to what Ukraine and western sources say they are, Russia could still easily invade and conquer Moldova and many of the stan countries whose militaries are much smaller than Ukraine's. These countries also have significant Russian populations that might aid a Russian invasion and occupation.
Part of the Lesson Rosco was teaching is to not put Russia in a position where they feel that they have to start attacking. NAto is aggressive around the globe and that is alarming to non NATO members.
Jonas!
Rosco teaching a lesson? OMG let's hope that never happens. Yesterday, on this thread Rosco said:
With each of your replies, you prove how far behind the group you are.
I've said it before, you're either trolling us or you're a simpleton.
Why would I want to think like the rest of this group? Look at RUA then look at the other place. Their view of the Russia-Ukraine war is the opposite. Why is the RUA right?
After reading many of Rosco's posts directed at me I think IRL Rosco is probably a drunk who tries to bully people and when they don't comply he flies into an alcoholic induced rage.
He and other members of RUA don't seem to understand that Ukraine doesn't want to be neutral. Ukraine wants to join the EU and probably NATO because Ukraine knows Russia can't be trusted.
Remember all the former members of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR that once the USSR fell immediately applied to join the EU and NATO? Why do you think that happened? Are Rosco and others saying they know Russia better than the former members of the Warsaw Pact and USSR? If so those members are even more narcissistic than I thought possible.
Another reason why Ukrainians don't want reconciliation with Russia is the sheer number of war crimes committed by Russia. IOW the bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine. We also saw this in Grozny during the Chechen Wars. In Chechen War 1 and Chechen War 2 Grozny was reduced to rubble with many civilian areas destroyed. So we know this is a Russian military tactic. If Russia would do this to their own people imagine what the Russian military will do to people who are not Russians.
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova wants to hold "Russia's military and senior officials accountable for alleged indiscriminate missile strikes and shelling, civilian assassinations, torture, sexual violence, repeated assaults on hospitals, and for denying civilians access to food, water and humanitarian aid."
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/behave-barbarians-ukraines-chief-war-080015624.html
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Rosco, Russia has been studiously avoiding this conflict. In truth, it is tough to see what options were left to them.
There were rounds and rounds of diplomatic efforts, including trying to get EU members and the US to persuade the Ukrainian government to fulfil its treaty obligations under the Minsk agreements. Had those agreements been followed then none of this would have happened. Of course, we now know that the leadership of the EU, in particular, behaved duplicitously having no intention of ensuring the Minsk agreement was carried through.
During all this time the Ukrainian armed forces were shelling the population of the LDPR, in particular the region of the DPR. How long should that have been allowed to continue?
More recently, we now know from OSCE data that the Ukrainian forces arrayed across the contact line in the LDPR were increasing their artillery assault on the LDPR and it seems, from captured documents, that an assault on the LDPR was due just a few days after February 24th.
So, what should Russia have done? Clearly, the administrative measures taken a few days before 24th February were taken in haste and unplanned. That's to say the actions may have been prepared for, but there was clearly no intention to put them into play at that time.
We may not like what happened, and we may have preferences that vary from what happened, but the facts on the ground are as they are. The RF behaved with a huge amount of restraint and can be criticised for having allowed the situation in the LDPR to continue for as long as it did.
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Why would I want to think like the rest of this group? Look at RUA then look at the other place. Their view of the Russia-Ukraine war is the opposite. Why is the RUA right?
[/quote]
Oher place doesn't' permit much discussion so not a good example.
He and other members of RUA don't seem to understand that Ukraine doesn't want to be neutral. Ukraine wants to join the EU and probably NATO because Ukraine knows Russia can't be trusted.
...and lots of other countries didn't want to be bombed by US or NATO Downplaying one side and freaking out over the other side isn't convincing to most. Some people resort to '2 wrongs don't make a right' as if this is a kindergarten pattycake lesson. Reality of world is what prompted this. It was predictable and yet the west spearheaded by US forced it to happen.
With all the young Ukrainian men getting killed or maimed the foreign bride market for the rich Chinese will be expansive. here in the US we will be expending our money on gas, food, and Chinese manufactured goods destined for expanding landfills.
Jonas!
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Jonas why don't you answer the question? Why did all those former Warsaw Pact and USSR countries run to join the EU and NATO when the USSR collapsed? These aren't stupid people they know there'd be a price to be paid in joining the EU and NATO.
You keep mentioning "all the young Ukrainian men getting killed or maimed" what about all the young Russian men getting killed or maimed? Shouldn't Putin stop the war because of deaths and injuries to his people?
As I've mentioned poll after poll has said the Ukrainians do not want to cede territory for a peace treaty. The idea that any RUA member can say the exact opposite of what the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want while sitting at home in their comfy chairs is the height of hypocrisy.
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I'd be interested to see these multiple polls, their selection universe, the questions asked and the confidence levels.
Coz, I rather doubt that an informed audience with non-leading questions might not give the opinion that you, Westcoast, suggest.
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Jonas why don't you answer the question? Why did all those former Warsaw Pact and USSR countries run to join the EU and NATO when the USSR collapsed? These aren't stupid people they know there'd be a price to be paid in joining the EU and NATO.
I don' have answers for everything so I choose o no answer EVERY question. Isn't that ok with you....
Maybe money had a lot to do with your question.
You keep mentioning "all the young Ukrainian men getting killed or maimed" what about all the young Russian men getting killed or maimed? Shouldn't Putin stop the war because of deaths and injuries to his people?
Yes the Chinese will enjoy he Russian ladies too.
Jonas!
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I'd be interested to see these multiple polls, their selection universe, the questions asked and the confidence levels.
Coz, I rather doubt that an informed audience with non-leading questions might not give the opinion that you, Westcoast, suggest.
I accepted his 'polls' as accurate, although I too have had my doubts.
As I've mentioned poll after poll has said the Ukrainians do not want to cede territory for a peace treaty. The idea that any RUA member can say the exact opposite of what the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want while sitting at home in their comfy chairs is the height of hypocrisy.
What RUA members can say is that we don't' want our countries to be involved. Ukrainians can determine if they want to resist and for how long. Entirely their choice, always should be the people's choice...and sometimes leaders of countries arent' in lockstep with what the people want. Oher times leaders have their own ideas or agenda.
Jonas!
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Why would I want to think like the rest of this group? Look at RUA then look at the other place. Their view of the Russia-Ukraine war is the opposite. Why is the RUA right?
Because the other place does not encourage discussion. Any dissenting view is moderated off-board so noone can see it.
After reading many of Rosco's posts directed at me I think IRL Rosco is probably a drunk who tries to bully people and when they don't comply he flies into an alcoholic induced rage.
All I can say is: You're a poor judge of character and you haven't read anything where Rosco explained his personal situation.
He and other members of RUA don't seem to understand that Ukraine doesn't want to be neutral. Ukraine wants to join the EU and probably NATO because Ukraine knows Russia can't be trusted.
Ukraine wants no such thing, only part of Ukraine. The donbass area and Crimea made that very clear by fighting off their own government with deadly casualties for over 8 years.
Remember all the former members of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR that once the USSR fell immediately applied to join the EU and NATO? Why do you think that happened? Are Rosco and others saying they know Russia better than the former members of the Warsaw Pact and USSR? If so those members are even more narcissistic than I thought possible.
I think that all they saw was a prosperous money pot and fear had nothing todo with it, nor hatred of Russia.
Another reason why Ukrainians don't want reconciliation with Russia is the sheer number of war crimes committed by Russia. IOW the bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine. We also saw this in Grozny during the Chechen Wars. In Chechen War 1 and Chechen War 2 Grozny was reduced to rubble with many civilian areas destroyed. So we know this is a Russian military tactic. If Russia would do this to their own people imagine what the Russian military will do to people who are not Russians.
Pop-quiz, you have been taking sniper fire from inside a pre-school building. 2 of your mates look at you now with lifeless, dead eyes. What you gonna do, die or shoot back, knowing the propaganda in western newspapers will report with glee.
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova wants to hold "Russia's military and senior officials accountable for alleged indiscriminate missile strikes and shelling, civilian assassinations, torture, sexual violence, repeated assaults on hospitals, and for denying civilians access to food, water and humanitarian aid."
She can want all she want, without it becoming fact or law. Nothing is proved.
Mark.
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I'd be interested to see these multiple polls, their selection universe, the questions asked and the confidence levels.
Coz, I rather doubt that an informed audience with non-leading questions might not give the opinion that you, Westcoast, suggest.
Never mind any/all polls. It is hugely driven by the delusion of the US/West carrying them to the promised land.
Left alone on their own, officials and public alike, I would venture a totally different mindset e.g. 2008 Georgia.
If Zelensky/Ukraine would like to take this path to the last man standing instead of seeking a resolution to a peace agreement, let them - void of proxy interference. Let's see the depth and logic behind that resolve.
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Bodine, yes, that's true. We see evidence of that over here. Sadly, Ukrainians have since before the EU partnership Agreement been sold a parcel of lies, but they are lies that millions of poor Ukrainians want to believe.
However, these days, polling is used as a form of persuasion and propaganda. So, one sees leading questions or a carefully selected universe of respondents. I am certain that most Ukrainians see only a very limited window onto the SMO - after all, many media outlets have been either closed down or only able to promulgate a single narrative along with most opposition groups. So, if one believes that the Ukraine army is ascendant and that the Russians are raping babies then one's attitude is liable to be very different to what one might opine if one knew that the military losses were huge and that no baby raping was happening.
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As I've mentioned poll after poll has said the Ukrainians do not want to cede territory for a peace treaty. The idea that any RUA member can say the exact opposite of what the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want while sitting at home in their comfy chairs is the height of hypocrisy.
What RUA members can say is that we don't' want our countries to be involved. Ukrainians can determine if they want to resist and for how long. Entirely their choice, always should be the people's choice...and sometimes leaders of countries arent' in lockstep with what the people want. Oher times leaders have their own ideas or agenda.
Jonas!
[/quote]
Jonas polls say a majority of Americans support America spending money to support Ukraine. IOW you aren't in lockstep with what other Americans want the American government to do to help Ukraine.
Jonas, I'm assuming that now that you and other American RUA members realize that you're out of lockstep with the majority of Americans you and the others will immediately change direction and get in lockstep with the majority of Americans?
Poll showing that the vast majority of UK citizens support aid to Ukraine. Obviously UK citizens that don't believe in the support for sanctions against Russia and aid the UK is sending to Ukraine are not thinking properly and need to get back in line with the proper UK thinking on this issue.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2022/07/05/americans-preparedness-to-pay-a-price-for-supporting-ukraine-remains-robust/
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/06/20/war-ukraine-britons-continue-support-sanctions-are
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I'd be interested to see these multiple polls, their selection universe, the questions asked and the confidence levels.
Coz, I rather doubt that an informed audience with non-leading questions might not give the opinion that you, Westcoast, suggest.
Never mind any/all polls. It is hugely driven by the delusion of the US/West carrying them to the promised land.
Left alone on their own, officials and public alike, I would venture a totally different mindset e.g. 2008 Georgia.
If Zelensky/Ukraine would like to take this path to the last man standing instead of seeking a resolution to a peace agreement, let them - void of proxy interference. Let's see the depth and logic behind that resolve.
I agree the west shouldn't help Ukraine and Russia shouldn't help the Donbass and Crimea. No Russian aid military or otherwise to the Donbas. No Russian aid, military or otherwise to Crimea. All those Russian military units in Crimea sent home and see how long Crimea would be independent.
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No Russian aid, military or otherwise to Crimea. All those Russian military units in Crimea sent home and see how long Crimea would be independent.
A really long time, because in their minds, they're home.
If Ukraine tries to take it back, the local populace will fight the same guerilla war as Donbass does now. And they have a better strategical position too, all they need is to defend the small land bridge north of Dzhankoi and they're safe.
It'll never happen though, because of Sevastopol.
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No Russian aid, military or otherwise to Crimea. All those Russian military units in Crimea sent home and see how long Crimea would be independent.
A really long time, because in their minds, they're home.
If Ukraine tries to take it back, the local populace will fight the same guerilla war as Donbass does now. And they have a better strategical position too, all they need is to defend the small land bridge north of Dzhankoi and they're safe.
It'll never happen though, because of Sevastopol.
Correct all those Russian Navy and other Russian military units in Sevastopol. Without Russian aid Crimea would fall to the Ukrainian military in short order.
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Bodine, yes, that's true. We see evidence of that over here. Sadly, Ukrainians have since before the EU partnership Agreement been sold a parcel of lies, but they are lies that millions of poor Ukrainians want to believe.
However, these days, polling is used as a form of persuasion and propaganda. So, one sees leading questions or a carefully selected universe of respondents. I am certain that most Ukrainians see only a very limited window onto the SMO - after all, many media outlets have been either closed down or only able to promulgate a single narrative along with most opposition groups. So, if one believes that the Ukraine army is ascendant and that the Russians are raping babies then one's attitude is liable to be very different to what one might opine if one knew that the military losses were huge and that no baby raping was happening.
Indeed. There is obviously a very heavy dose of the latter (bolded) part, too. One didn't have to be 'Ukrainian', living in or out of Ukraine, to submit to these types of polling. Heck, from what we've all seen, even non-Ukrainians who had taken even a very small interest in this conflict, and having digested all the western media (false) reports in the initial days, easily spewed the same 'polled sentiment'.
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Jonas polls say a majority of Americans support America spending money to support Ukraine. IOW you aren't in lockstep with what other Americans want the American government to do to help Ukraine.
Jonas, I'm assuming that now that you and other American RUA members realize that you're out of lockstep with the majority of Americans you and the others will immediately change direction and get in lockstep with the majority of Americans?
You sure make a lot of wrong assumptions.
No thanks, I'll make my own decision. If you want to be lockstep with all your govt. chooses to do, that is ok with me.
Regardless of what your poll says, I don't think most American's are happy that we spent 50-60 billion in Ukraine...despite the propaganda we have been exposed to. Slowly more stories are starting to come out that are moving minds in another direction. even now...Reality is most Americans don't care at all about Ukraine and don't really know anything about it.
Jonas!
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the Ukrainian Kiev intelligence chief wants more weapons so he would say about anything...but I do agree with him on his point. Ukraine will wind up in complete ruins before it all ends as long as he west is doing what it is doing. I believe the west knows this and would prefer for Ukraine to suffer massive casualties and be in ruins, to the alternative which is Russia having more control over the region. West probably have known all along and did a calculation deciding loss of Ukrainian lives were worth preventing Russia from keeping the sphere of influence.
Russia’s plans are the complete destruction of Ukraine, Kiev intelligence chief says
As Russian forces step up their assault in Ukraine's Donbas region, the head of Kiev’s intelligence department warned that Ukrainian President Vladimir Putin is aiming for the “complete destruction” of Ukraine.
Speaking to the Ukrainian news outlet, RBC-Ukraine, Kyrylo Budanov was asked whether the Kremlin would continue its slow advance beyond the separatist Russian-backed region.
“I can tell you with full responsibility that Russia's plans are the complete destruction of Ukraine,” he said Monday via translation.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-plans-are-the-complete-destruction-of-ukraine-Kiev-intelligence-chief-says-174837754.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-plans-are-the-complete-destruction-of-ukraine-Kiev-intelligence-chief-says-174837754.html)
Jonas!
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<snip>
As Russian forces step up their assault in Ukraine's Donbas region, the head of Kiev’s intelligence department warned that Ukrainian President Vladimir Putin is aiming for the “complete destruction” of Ukraine.
Speaking to the Ukrainian news outlet, RBC-Ukraine, Kyrylo Budanov was asked whether the Kremlin would continue its slow advance beyond the separatist Russian-backed region.
“I can tell you with full responsibility that Russia's plans are the complete destruction of Ukraine,” he said Monday via translation.....<snip>
Jonas!
:laugh:
Some propaganda is well cloaked, others, well….
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the Ukrainian Kiev intelligence chief wants more weapons so he would say about anything...but I do agree with him on his point. Ukraine will wind up in complete ruins before it all ends as long as he west is doing what it is doing. I believe the west knows this and would prefer for Ukraine to suffer massive casualties and be in ruins, to the alternative which is Russia having more control over the region. West probably have known all along and did a calculation deciding loss of Ukrainian lives were worth preventing Russia from keeping the sphere of influence.
Russia’s plans are the complete destruction of Ukraine, Kiev intelligence chief says
As Russian forces step up their assault in Ukraine's Donbas region, the head of Kiev’s intelligence department warned that Ukrainian President Vladimir Putin is aiming for the “complete destruction” of Ukraine.
Speaking to the Ukrainian news outlet, RBC-Ukraine, Kyrylo Budanov was asked whether the Kremlin would continue its slow advance beyond the separatist Russian-backed region.
“I can tell you with full responsibility that Russia's plans are the complete destruction of Ukraine,” he said Monday via translation.....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-plans-are-the-complete-destruction-of-ukraine-Kiev-intelligence-chief-says-174837754.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-plans-are-the-complete-destruction-of-ukraine-Kiev-intelligence-chief-says-174837754.html)
Jonas!
I hope it is just a slip of the tongue but I do not think the Ukraine president would want the complete destruction of Ukraine!!
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<snip>
As Russian forces step up their assault in Ukraine's Donbas region, the head of Kiev’s intelligence department warned that Ukrainian President Vladimir Putin is aiming for the “complete destruction” of Ukraine.
<snip>
Jonas!
:laugh:
Some propaganda is well cloaked, others, well….
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
As Pushkin said "И изумленные народы Не знают, что им предпринять: Ложиться спать или вставать".
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Jonas polls say a majority of Americans support America spending money to support Ukraine. IOW you aren't in lockstep with what other Americans want the American government to do to help Ukraine.
Oh yeah, in "lockstep" are we all?
That's a crock of horse manure, however it shows your mentality.
Been practicing your WWII Germany marching skills have you? At least in your warped mind?
Reminds me of war criminal Bush Jr's stupid slogan "you're either with us or you're against us".
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Regardless of what your poll says, I don't think most American's are happy that we spent 50-60 billion in Ukraine...despite the propaganda we have been exposed to. Slowly more stories are starting to come out that are moving minds in another direction. even now...Reality is most Americans don't care at all about Ukraine and don't really know anything about it.
Jonas!
WADR, I tend to agree with Jonas about this. :8)
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Rosco you talk about "the group", why should I think like the rest of you? You're sitting on a barstool somewhere in the UK downing pints of beer as fast as you can. Really why would I want to think like you?
What's with this obsessive fantasy, of me downing pints in a pub and writing drunk posts on RUA? Bullying shaky old fossils like you! :ROFL: Is it supposed to discredit my opinions or is it part of some bizarre fetish of yours?
You're certainly a queer old tup WasteCoast.
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Rosco you talk about "the group", why should I think like the rest of you? You're sitting on a barstool somewhere in the UK downing pints of beer as fast as you can. Really why would I want to think like you?
What's with this obsessive fantasy, of me downing pints in a pub and writing drunk posts on RUA? Bullying shaky old fossils like you! :ROFL: Is it supposed to discredit my opinions or is it part of some bizarre fetish of yours?
You're certainly a queer old tup WasteCoast.
Projection, Rosco, the word is projection.
We all do it!
You, for example, tend to treat people as though they are as intelligent and informed as you are. That's projection - people rarely are either of those things!
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Rosco you talk about "the group", why should I think like the rest of you? You're sitting on a barstool somewhere in the UK downing pints of beer as fast as you can. Really why would I want to think like you?
What's with this obsessive fantasy, of me downing pints in a pub and writing drunk posts on RUA? Bullying shaky old fossils like you! :ROFL: Is it supposed to discredit my opinions or is it part of some bizarre fetish of yours?
You're certainly a queer old tup WasteCoast.
Projection, Rosco, the word is projection.
We all do it!
You, for example, tend to treat people as though they are as intelligent and informed as you are. That's projection - people rarely are either of those things!
It explains a lot, when you look at it like that. Perhaps it is he who has a problem with alcohol, sitting behind his keyboard angrily thumbing away with that negative mindset of his?
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Rosco you talk about "the group", why should I think like the rest of you? You're sitting on a barstool somewhere in the UK downing pints of beer as fast as you can. Really why would I want to think like you?
What's with this obsessive fantasy, of me downing pints in a pub and writing drunk posts on RUA? Bullying shaky old fossils like you! :ROFL: Is it supposed to discredit my opinions or is it part of some bizarre fetish of yours?
You're certainly a queer old tup WasteCoast.
Rosco you're the one telling me my posts are out of step with what the group thinks and swearing at me. I'd guess the insults are to get me to think your way.
Turns out your opinions on Ukraine are the exact opposite of what the majority of UK think. Polls show there's massive support for Ukraine. You should change your thinking to what the majority of the UK think and get back in line with your fellow members of UK society. Same with Andy.
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Rosco you talk about "the group", why should I think like the rest of you? You're sitting on a barstool somewhere in the UK downing pints of beer as fast as you can. Really why would I want to think like you?
What's with this obsessive fantasy, of me downing pints in a pub and writing drunk posts on RUA? Bullying shaky old fossils like you! :ROFL: Is it supposed to discredit my opinions or is it part of some bizarre fetish of yours?
You're certainly a queer old tup WasteCoast.
Rosco you're the one telling me my posts are out of step with what the group thinks and swearing at me. I'd guess the insults are to get me to think your way.
Turns out your opinions on Ukraine are the exact opposite of what the majority of UK think. Polls show there's massive support for Ukraine. You should change your thinking to what the majority of the UK think and get back in line with your fellow members of UK society. Same with Andy.
But they are :'(
Take a breath WasteCoast and try to see what reality looks like. Give your knickers another natural 40 rinse and tell your nurse how nasty Rosco has been behaving.
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This is why you're stuck in neutral in the box they put you into with the massive amount of brainwashing and indoctrination you've been through.
You're not capable of reading some "leftist media" in a constructive pro-active way and you're especially not capable of reading what the CIA mind controllers :sick0012: derisively call conspiracy theorist media.
While you "get it" that this war is about profiteering you don't get many other things.
Just my two cents. :-*
Just another penny ... why would I spend time trying to sort out BS from occasional non-BS. I believe Wiz can talk you (to death) about Aesop's "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". tiphat
That’s almost funny. Now let’s face reality:
The reason you can’t see the forest is because you as a bad tree have been collaborating with the wood chopper your entire life as a way to pay your bills. :sick0012:
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Another Ukrainian apartment building hit. At least 15 dead. The Russian military does seem to be able to hit what they're aiming at. More war crimes?
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/death-devastation-ukraine-apartment-complex-212111478.html
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Another Ukrainian apartment building hit. At least 15 dead. The Russian military does seem to be able to hit what they're aiming at. More war crimes?
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/death-devastation-ukraine-apartment-complex-212111478.html
The trouble is they hit exactly what they were aiming for. The apartment building. Russia is trying to get the population of Ukraine to want to give up by using terrorism.
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Ukraine is starting an offensive to re-claim Cherson from Russia.
According to local authorities in the occupied oblast, Ukrainian forces continue to shell domestic area's including flats, hospitals and markets. The shelling of the hospital cost at least 7 lives and dozens injured. Ukrainians used the mobile american missile system M142 HIMARS.
So much for the moral high ground, the Ukrainians are just as bad.
Strange isn't it, when the shoe is on the other foot with the local populace that actually WANT Russia there. They turn the propaganda right around.
Source:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/661210816/live-oekraine-tegenoffensief-begonnen-in-bezette-cherson-ziekenhuis-getroffen
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Ukraine is starting an offensive to re-claim Cherson from Russia.
According to local authorities in the occupied oblast, Ukrainian forces continue to shell domestic area's including flats, hospitals and markets. The shelling of the hospital cost at least 7 lives and dozens injured. Ukrainians used the mobile american missile system M142 HIMARS.
So much for the moral high ground, the Ukrainians are just as bad.
Strange isn't it, when the shoe is on the other foot with the local populace that actually WANT Russia there. They turn the propaganda right around.
Source:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/661210816/live-oekraine-tegenoffensief-begonnen-in-bezette-cherson-ziekenhuis-getroffen
The media in the UK cleverly turn the language around and instantly discredit the news by saying stuff like;
"Ukraine’s shelling killed and injured its own civilians in the southern region of Kherson, Russia said on Sunday. Russia’s defense ministry accused Ukraine's forces of shelling a school, kindergarten and cemetery in the villages of Kyselivka and Shyroka Balka in the Kherson region, the Russian RIA news agency said on Sunday."
"The ministry gave no further details."
They've correctly reported that Ukrainian troops have been killing their own people in residential areas but then attempt to get the reader to dismiss the truths as lies, because it came from the Russians.
WestCoast and Texan will soon be along to call us Nazi's, for sharing the inconvenient truths.
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Another Ukrainian apartment building hit. At least 15 dead. The Russian military does seem to be able to hit what they're aiming at. More war crimes?
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/death-devastation-ukraine-apartment-complex-212111478.html
The trouble is they hit exactly what they were aiming for. The apartment building. Russia is trying to get the population of Ukraine to want to give up by using terrorism.
So which one are you going for today Tex? Russia's using old rubbish equipment or Russia are intentionally attacking civilians?
According to Western Media, Russia have been using some old style weapons from years gone by and their accuracy isn't that accurate. That means, Russia are possibly targeting positions hitting Russian troops but due to inaccuracies and the 'unintentionally close proximity of Ukrainian troops next to residential areas', some buildings are being hit.
I suppose you just go with the flow, whatever suits your agenda.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1624581/russia-cold-war-missiles-ukraine-news-vladimir-putin-defence-security-latest
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The picture used is from a direct strike on a warehouse and plant used as an ammo dump.
It's been geo located as well.
It was not in kherson city it was 50 kilometers away near an electric plant.
The blast was immense and broke all the windows in the village.
There were no reported civilian casualties.
I dont doubt if there were some however.
So an article starts off with misleading sensationalist vids/photos,that doesnt fit its content.
While its data might he accurate, it just as easily might not.
Ukraine has hit two airfields ,2 troop headquarters over 20.ammo dumps with the himers.
Many were huge and explosions went for hours after.
How may hospitals?
They are not targeting civilians.
Over 60 ukrainian hospitals were hit and damaged by Russia in march alone.
Over 1000 admin and residential buildings in mikolaev alone.
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Another Ukrainian apartment building hit. At least 15 dead. The Russian military does seem to be able to hit what they're aiming at. More war crimes?
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/death-devastation-ukraine-apartment-complex-212111478.html
The trouble is they hit exactly what they were aiming for. The apartment building. Russia is trying to get the population of Ukraine to want to give up by using terrorism.
So which one are you going for today Tex? Russia's using old rubbish equipment or Russia are intentionally attacking civilians?
According to Western Media, Russia have been using some old style weapons from years gone by and their accuracy isn't that accurate. That means, Russia are possibly targeting positions hitting Russian troops but due to inaccuracies and the 'unintentionally close proximity of Ukrainian troops next to residential areas', some buildings are being hit.
I suppose you just go with the flow, whatever suits your agenda.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1624581/russia-cold-war-missiles-ukraine-news-vladimir-putin-defence-security-latest
It's exactly what you are doing as well.
The Russian headquarters was hit in kherson weeks ago.
It was in the suburbs, so certainly could have caused collateral damage, yet no civilians were reportedly injured.
40 some troops.
This week another one in.kherson was hit allegedly over 200 russian troops.
No civilians even though they were also in the city.
There have been ongoing strikes in kherson.and khersion burbs for the last week.
I do not doubt there has been some civilian losses.
That does not mean they are targeting civilians.
You omit the fact Ukraine has sent out many messages to leave the city and area as it was going to be attacked.
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Ukraine is starting an offensive to re-claim Cherson from Russia.
According to local authorities in the occupied oblast, Ukrainian forces continue to shell domestic area's including flats, hospitals and markets. The shelling of the hospital cost at least 7 lives and dozens injured. Ukrainians used the mobile american missile system M142 HIMARS.
So much for the moral high ground, the Ukrainians are just as bad.
Strange isn't it, when the shoe is on the other foot with the local populace that actually WANT Russia there. They turn the propaganda right around.
Source:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/661210816/live-oekraine-tegenoffensief-begonnen-in-bezette-cherson-ziekenhuis-getroffen
The media in the UK cleverly turn the language around and instantly discredit the news by saying stuff like;
"Ukraine’s shelling killed and injured its own civilians in the southern region of Kherson, Russia said on Sunday. Russia’s defense ministry accused Ukraine's forces of shelling a school, kindergarten and cemetery in the villages of Kyselivka and Shyroka Balka in the Kherson region, the Russian RIA news agency said on Sunday."
"The ministry gave no further details."
They've correctly reported that Ukrainian troops have been killing their own people in residential areas but then attempt to get the reader to dismiss the truths as lies, because it came from the Russians.
WestCoast and Texan will soon be along to call us Nazi's, for sharing the inconvenient truths.
But if you read the Dutch version of these events, they're mentioning 'local authorities' , which I assume are Ukrainian since its about Kherson. Bad UK press indeed.
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It's exactly what you are doing as well.
It's not even remotely similar AJ. I'm not sure what you're reading but that simply doesn't make sense.
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Ukraine is starting an offensive to re-claim Cherson from Russia.
According to local authorities in the occupied oblast, Ukrainian forces continue to shell domestic area's including flats, hospitals and markets. The shelling of the hospital cost at least 7 lives and dozens injured. Ukrainians used the mobile american missile system M142 HIMARS.
So much for the moral high ground, the Ukrainians are just as bad.
Strange isn't it, when the shoe is on the other foot with the local populace that actually WANT Russia there. They turn the propaganda right around.
Source:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/661210816/live-oekraine-tegenoffensief-begonnen-in-bezette-cherson-ziekenhuis-getroffen
Russia invaded Ukraine it doesn't matter if a few ethnic Russians wanted Putin's help Russia invaded.
Yes it's very sad those people died of course if Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine those people would still be alive.
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So which one are you going for today Tex? Russia's using old rubbish equipment or Russia are intentionally attacking civilians?
According to Western Media, Russia have been using some old style weapons from years gone by and their accuracy isn't that accurate. That means, Russia are possibly targeting positions hitting Russian troops but due to inaccuracies and the 'unintentionally close proximity of Ukrainian troops next to residential areas', some buildings are being hit.
The only Russians that should be in Ukraine should be tourist. All others are just supporting the NAZI government of Russia. Many strikes Russia made on civilians are nowhere near the front line and are not part of the war but rather part of a terrorist campaign to cause the people of Ukraine to want to give up. Why bomb random building in Kiev, Kharkov and cities in the west of Ukraine? About the hospital who know if it is even true. So much stuff from Russia is just made up. Russia has targeted hundreds of hospitals in Ukraine so now they say if Ukraine hit one, they are just as bad. There should not be a war in there first place then no hospitals would be hit. Ukraine did not attack Russia it is the other way around. All Russia has to do to stop the war is to go home. Ukraine does not have that ability.
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There should not be a war in there first place then no hospitals would be hit. Ukraine did not attack Russia it is the other way around. All Russia has to do to stop the war is to go home. Ukraine does not have that ability.
There is always context to these things. It's incomplete to take a moment in time (Like now) and ignore the prior events. Russia is not just going to go home. Facing reality, Ukraine is going to be forced to go along, or they are going to lose a lot more people and their country. US won't stop this from happening, they will continue to encourage it as long as Russia is losing military strength along the way. I would think that Zelensky can see this by now, so that begs the question of why he continues. There must be some additional facts lost/hidden to the public in the murkiness of this war.
Jonas!
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Jonas,
Perhaps the reality also exits that russia can back down.
You continue to trsp them in a box that doesnt exist.
You could be right that they wont,however they certainly can,and it is an option.
Its a possible option ukrainian leadership is looking at whether you agree its realistic or not.
Nothing muddy about it other than your
voew that russia vant back down.
Russias intent was never to occupy ukraine.
Demilitirize,denazi, was the claimed main goals.
It went in with ultimately a back doiwn as the end goal,after they establshed set points,which were always a bit vague.
They have become more vague in what the goal.is,so the back down point can be vague as well .
Nato is expanding.
Ukraine currently has a stronger military despite loses.
Russia has a devastated black sea fleet
They maybe winning*
But the goals remain unclear.
Bringing belarus into this is likely to backfire.
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There should not be a war in there first place then no hospitals would be hit. Ukraine did not attack Russia it is the other way around. All Russia has to do to stop the war is to go home. Ukraine does not have that ability.
There is always context to these things. It's incomplete to take a moment in time (Like now) and ignore the prior events. Russia is not just going to go home. Facing reality, Ukraine is going to be forced to go along, or they are going to lose a lot more people and their country. US won't stop this from happening, they will continue to encourage it as long as Russia is losing military strength along the way. I would think that Zelensky can see this by now, so that begs the question of why he continues. There must be some additional facts lost/hidden to the public in the murkiness of this war.
Jonas!
My American cousin and I were discussing the war and what should Ukraine do? He gave a scenario that worked even in liberal California.
Imagine China had launched a surprise attack on the USA. Had landed on continental US soil and after 6 months had made significant progress holding the west coast, Hawaii and some of the other western states.
IOW the Chinese were winning, killing 2 American military personnel for every 1 Chinese plus tens of thousands of American civilians?
Even in very blue California few liberal Californians said surrender. The overwhelming majority said fight to the death before surrendering to China.
Any Americans here think differently?
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My American cousin and I were discussing the war and what should Ukraine do? He gave a scenario that worked even in liberal California.
Imagine China had launched a surprise attack on the USA. Had landed on continental US soil and after 6 months had made significant progress holding the west coast, Hawaii and some of the other western states.
IOW the Chinese were winning, killing 2 American military personnel for every 1 Chinese plus tens of thousands of American civilians?
Even in very blue California few liberal Californians said surrender. The overwhelming majority said fight to the death before surrendering to China.
Any Americans here think differently?
Hell yeah, I do!
I’d move to Texas and wait till the Chinese got rid of all the liberals from the lower left coast, then give ‘‘em hell!
Seriously, Japan vowed to die to the last person defending their country and emperor when it was imminent the US was poised to attack its shores. Instead we nuke ‘em twice, and they eventually thought better of it.
It’s one thing to die and fight for your country, quite another for your country to be decimated because someone else thinks it should.
I’m of the mind the US cares more about global domination and see Russia weakened far more than to see Ukraine prevail. If this means millions of Ukrainian die in the process, so be it.
-
Very interesting film. It could easily go in the "Russian Losses" section because eventually this town was liberated.
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Why bomb random building in Kiev, Kharkov and cities in the west of Ukraine?
Do you really think that Russia are bombing random apartment blocks in random cities? It's probably happened but I doubt this is their strategy.
So much stuff from Russia is just made up.
So much stuff from Ukraine has been made up too.
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There should not be a war in there first place then no hospitals would be hit. Ukraine did not attack Russia it is the other way around. All Russia has to do to stop the war is to go home. Ukraine does not have that ability.
There is always context to these things. It's incomplete to take a moment in time (Like now) and ignore the prior events. Russia is not just going to go home. Facing reality, Ukraine is going to be forced to go along, or they are going to lose a lot more people and their country. US won't stop this from happening, they will continue to encourage it as long as Russia is losing military strength along the way. I would think that Zelensky can see this by now, so that begs the question of why he continues. There must be some additional facts lost/hidden to the public in the murkiness of this war.
Jonas!
I'd agree with that.
Texan seems to think this is a war between Russia and Ukraine whereas the reality is, Russia is fighting the West and Ukraine is the battle ground. I'll say it again, its the poor Ukrainians who have been caught up in the middle of all this mess.
The West has made it clear that they wont intervene and Russia knows this so what we have now is a proxy war being fought in Central Europe. Texan fails to understand that there are significant events which have happened, in the run up to this conflict and with a bit of hindsight, this could all have been avoided.
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Jonas,
Perhaps the reality also exits that russia can back down.
You continue to trsp them in a box that doesnt exist.
You could be right that they wont,however they certainly can,and it is an option.
Its a possible option ukrainian leadership is looking at whether you agree its realistic or not.
Nothing muddy about it other than your
voew that russia vant back down.
Russias intent was never to occupy ukraine.
Demilitirize,denazi, was the claimed main goals.
It went in with ultimately a back doiwn as the end goal,after they establshed set points,which were always a bit vague.
They have become more vague in what the goal.is,so the back down point can be vague as well .
Nato is expanding.
Ukraine currently has a stronger military despite loses.
Russia has a devastated black sea fleet
They maybe winning*
But the goals remain unclear.
Bringing belarus into this is likely to backfire.
It's not an option for Russia AJ. If Russia backs down here, it will be seen as a defeat and only serve to encourage the West, to continue mingling in their sphere of influence. In Russia's eyes, this is a direct threat to their 'existence'.
None of it's right but its the reality.
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My American cousin and I were discussing the war and what should Ukraine do? He gave a scenario that worked even in liberal California.
Imagine China had launched a surprise attack on the USA. Had landed on continental US soil and after 6 months had made significant progress holding the west coast, Hawaii and some of the other western states.
IOW the Chinese were winning, killing 2 American military personnel for every 1 Chinese plus tens of thousands of American civilians?
Even in very blue California few liberal Californians said surrender. The overwhelming majority said fight to the death before surrendering to China.
Any Americans here think differently?
Hell yeah, I do!
I’d move to Texas and wait till the Chinese got rid of all the liberals from the lower left coast, then give ‘‘em hell!
Seriously, Japan vowed to die to the last person defending their country and emperor when it was imminent the US was poised to attack its shores. Instead we nuke ‘em twice, and they eventually thought better of it.
It’s one thing to die and fight for your country, quite another for your country to be decimated because someone else thinks it should.
I’m of the mind the US cares more about global domination and see Russia weakened far more than to see Ukraine prevail. If this means millions of Ukrainian die in the process, so be it.
Why are you attributing that.quote to me?
While i've lived in cali, i have no cousins there.
Those are westcoasts words.
;)
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Why bomb random building in Kiev, Kharkov and cities in the west of Ukraine?
Do you really think that Russia are bombing random apartment blocks in random cities? It's probably happened but I doubt this is their strategy.
So much stuff from Russia is just made up.
So much stuff from Ukraine has been made up too.
Over 1000 strikes in mikolaev,one
City.
The bulk of which hit residential.areas.
Far more hit Kharkov, chernihiv,mariupol,
And again far more than half have hit residential.areas.
Its not even close to being surgical strikes on airports,railways ,or wharehouses.
How many missles have hit the airport or base near mikolaev?
Half a dozen?
Yet ovee a 1000 strikes on the coty itself,very few of which hit anything other than residential areas.
The main bridge wasnt hit, the railways arnt hit, the shipyard is fine.
The did hit two administrartive buildings.
Its been a massively lopsided ratio from.the beginning.
Care enough to look at detailed maps, or not.
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I’m of the mind the US cares more about global domination and see Russia weakened far more than to see Ukraine prevail. If this means millions of Ukrainian die in the process, so be it.
I'll have to agree.
tiphat
Jonas!
-
Jonas,
Perhaps the reality also exits that russia can back down.
You continue to trsp them in a box that doesnt exist.
Perhaps, but I really don't think there is a way for Russia to back down now...it's too late. They aren't going to be paying 100's of billions of dollars to rebuild Ukraine, unless it was for themselves. What I say doesn't trip them in a box, it is just reality...the way I see it.
Jonas!
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Why are you attributing that.quote to me?
While i've lived in cali, i have no cousins there.
Those are westcoasts words.
;)
Oppsss, my bad AJ! That’s what I get for these drive-by postings!
FWIW, if China did invade California, truth is those darn liberals couldn’t defend anything because none of them own a gun! Newsom is on DC this week lobbying for gun control law that would hold the gun maker liable for a civil lawsuit if a homicide took place using their product.
Next law after that is suing carmakers anytime it’s car gets involved in a hit and run.
It’ll be easy pickings for these Chinese.
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Bodine-
Last i was in socal (SD) visiting, it appeared the Xhinese had purchsed a good portion of north county already ,and a lot of the university enrollments
;)
That was 2 years or so ago
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Why bomb random building in Kiev, Kharkov and cities in the west of Ukraine?
Do you really think that Russia are bombing random apartment blocks in random cities? It's probably happened but I doubt this is their strategy.
So much stuff from Russia is just made up.
So much stuff from Ukraine has been made up too.
Over 1000 strikes in mikolaev,one
City.
The bulk of which hit residential.areas.
Far more hit Kharkov, chernihiv,mariupol,
And again far more than half have hit residential.areas.
Its not even close to being surgical strikes on airports,railways ,or wharehouses.
How many missles have hit the airport or base near mikolaev?
Half a dozen?
Yet ovee a 1000 strikes on the coty itself,very few of which hit anything other than residential areas.
The main bridge wasnt hit, the railways arnt hit, the shipyard is fine.
The did hit two administrartive buildings.
Its been a massively lopsided ratio from.the beginning.
Care enough to look at detailed maps, or not.
You conveniently ignore the fact that most residential areas hit, have been housing military personnel and weapons. You make it sound like Russia are only aiming their finite resources at babushkas and children, resting in peaceful residential areas. Whilst the Ukrainian fighters get a free pass.
-
Why bomb random building in Kiev, Kharkov and cities in the west of Ukraine?
Do you really think that Russia are bombing random apartment blocks in random cities? It's probably happened but I doubt this is their strategy.
So much stuff from Russia is just made up.
So much stuff from Ukraine has been made up too.
Over 1000 strikes in mikolaev,one
City.
The bulk of which hit residential.areas.
Far more hit Kharkov, chernihiv,mariupol,
And again far more than half have hit residential.areas.
Its not even close to being surgical strikes on airports,railways ,or wharehouses.
How many missles have hit the airport or base near mikolaev?
Half a dozen?
Yet ovee a 1000 strikes on the coty itself,very few of which hit anything other than residential areas.
The main bridge wasnt hit, the railways arnt hit, the shipyard is fine.
The did hit two administrartive buildings.
Its been a massively lopsided ratio from.the beginning.
Care enough to look at detailed maps, or not.
You conveniently ignore the fact that most residential areas hit, have been housing military personnel and weapons. You make it sound like Russia are only aiming their finite resources at babushkas and children, resting in peaceful residential areas. Whilst the Ukrainian fighters get a free pass.
Rosco with this post you're also in denial like a few others.
It is actually clear from the actions in Bucha and the cities above mentioned by AJ that the Russian methodology is to destroy a given city and to instill fear and paranoia into the civilians within the city being bombed into oblivion.
You then write "whilst the Ukrainian fighters get a free pass", as if it's not their territory to begin with. Certainly the west doesn't have clean hands in this mess but why are you trying to justify war crimes?
Civilians have been deliberately targeted from the start which never should have happened.
Russia has lost the war of ideas and will never prevail because they have nothing that people who believe in liberty and self-determination want; quite the opposite really.
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Rosco with this post you're also in denial like a few others.
It is actually clear from the actions in Bucha and the cities above mentioned by AJ that the Russian methodology is to destroy a given city and to instill fear and paranoia into the civilians within the city being bombed into oblivion.
You then write "whilst the Ukrainian fighters get a free pass", as if it's not their territory to begin with. Certainly the west doesn't have clean hands in this mess but why are you trying to justify war crimes?
Civilians have been deliberately targeted from the start which never should have happened.
Russia has lost the war of ideas and will never prevail because they have nothing that people who believe in liberty and self-determination want; quite the opposite really.
Nowhere any any point, have I ever tried to justify a war crime. In fact I know that many horrific things will have happened to many an innocent person, during this conflict.
My point was that whilst Russia or some people within the Russian military may have indeed used the tactics you mention, its certainly not wide scale or the main tactic used in Ukraine as a whole, compared with Grozy for example. Yet people lazily like to trot this untrue line out at their convenience. We know this because most of Ukraine and it's non military buildings are still standing. We know this because Russian troops have suffered high casualty rates by fighting battles in close combat, instead of sitting behind their artillery and aerial bombardments. Strategically some non military buildings will have been targeted as part of demilitarising and destroying communication and logistics. That happens in war, look what we all did to Iraq during desert storm.
I genuinely don't know what to believe from this conflict anymore and I'm pretty much at the point where I expect we're being lied to by both Russia and Ukraine, for their own benefit. One is as bad as the other yet the western default is to give Ukraine a free pass with their BS.
The reality is, Russia will be in the main targeting high value sites and when we remove the rose tinted spectacles and do a bit of digging, it often leads to us finding out that the school/hospital/supermarket/disabled children's hospital, has often in fact been empty and housing Ukrainian military or military hardware. We know this is happening.
There will no doubt be sketchy intelligence and twitchy trigger fingers along with some real rotten b@stards fighting at the tip of the spear but I dont believe for a minute Putin has ordered Russia just to randomly attack apartment blocks in suburbs with no targets around. There is literally nothing to gain.
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Rosco with this post you're also in denial like a few others.
It is actually clear from the actions in Bucha and the cities above mentioned by AJ that the Russian methodology is to destroy a given city and to instill fear and paranoia into the civilians within the city being bombed into oblivion.
You then write "whilst the Ukrainian fighters get a free pass", as if it's not their territory to begin with. Certainly the west doesn't have clean hands in this mess but why are you trying to justify war crimes?
Civilians have been deliberately targeted from the start which never should have happened.
Russia has lost the war of ideas and will never prevail because they have nothing that people who believe in liberty and self-determination want; quite the opposite really.
Nowhere any any point, have I ever tried to justify a war crime. In fact I know that many horrific things will have happened to many an innocent person, during this conflict.
My point was that whilst Russia or some people within the Russian military may have indeed used the tactics you mention, its certainly not wide scale or the main tactic used in Ukraine as a whole, compared with Grozy for example. Yet people lazily like to trot this untrue line out at their convenience. We know this because most of Ukraine and it's non military buildings are still standing. We know this because Russian troops have suffered high casualty rates by fighting battles in close combat, instead of sitting behind their artillery and aerial bombardments. Strategically some non military buildings will have been targeted as part of demilitarising and destroying communication and logistics. That happens in war, look what we all did to Iraq during desert storm.
I genuinely don't know what to believe from this conflict anymore and I'm pretty much at the point where I expect we're being lied to by both Russia and Ukraine, for their own benefit. One is as bad as the other yet the western default is to give Ukraine a free pass with their BS.
The reality is, Russia will be in the main targeting high value sites and when we remove the rose tinted spectacles and do a bit of digging, it often leads to us finding out that the school/hospital/supermarket/disabled children's hospital, has often in fact been empty and housing Ukrainian military or military hardware. We know this is happening.
There will no doubt be sketchy intelligence and twitchy trigger fingers along with some real rotten b@stards fighting at the tip of the spear but I dont believe for a minute Putin has ordered Russia just to randomly attack apartment blocks in suburbs with no targets around. There is literally nothing to gain.
Rosco there is much to gain from targeting civilians. From the link:
Downes examines several historical cases: British counterinsurgency tactics during the Boer War, the starvation blockade used by the Allies against Germany in World War I, Axis and Allied bombing campaigns in World War II, and ethnic cleansing in the Palestine War. He concludes that governments decide to target civilian populations for two main reasons?desperation to reduce their own military casualties or avert defeat, or a desire to seize and annex enemy territory. When a state's military fortunes take a turn for the worse, he finds, civilians are more likely to be declared legitimate targets to coerce the enemy state to give up. When territorial conquest and annexation are the aims of warfare, the population of the disputed land is viewed as a threat and the aggressor state may target those civilians to remove them. Democracies historically have proven especially likely to target civilians in desperate circumstances.
https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/publications/targeting_civilians_in_war
Desperation to reduce their own military casualties and seize and annex enemy territory in Ukraine, isn't that what Putin wants. If causality reports for Russian troops are really as high as reported Putin certainly wants to reduce them and of course Putin wants as much of Ukraine as possible.
Rosco there is much to gain by targeting civilians.
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Roscoe,
I am not convientely ignoring strikes at military personell in some city by either side.
I recognize russia will do so,and has done so.
Ukraine has done so in kherson,and effectively.
very few civilians killed there from those strikes as zero are reported.
Yet several hundred russian troops.
I think its around 300 or 400.
Compare that to Nikolayev scenario, and stop making up things i certainly do not ignore and wasnt remotely refering to.
I know a lot of people in that city , and the residential areas hit by over 1000 strikes do not house military troops.
Two or three days into the war the furniture store a block or so from.my mils was hit.
There was absolutely no troops there or any miltaey vehicle, ive fielded this question a dozen times here for several apologists ,so yes when family is in direct danger it gets old doing so.
Weeks later her apartment building itself was hit, no troops there ,or near that section of the city. No tanks hiding in thd courtyard for gawd sakes.
The same day the childrens hospital about 8 blocks over was hit in the front, my sil told me about it,also past member and interpretor strilitz was there with doctors without borders, they were lucky to not be injured.
Its a cancer/oncology childrens hospital.
Two kids were injured in my mil apt building courtyard and an elderly man killed.
There were numerous strikes that day
There have been air,sea and land strikes off and on for 5 months.
A lot of civilians injured or killed.
I havnt heard of a single military person killed there,even by russian claims,other than their strike on the actual.military base.
If they havd with over a 100 strikes hit a headquarters or concesled barracks in the residentual.districts, they sure as hell would have been yaking about it,but zero,nothing,nada.
They just routinely keep sending it.
Maruipol,sure i can see that they were hittimg troop concentratioms when they could.
They certrainly hot some railmfuel and supplyb depots ,and factories thru the country that were strategic in nature.
But youve jumped the shark thinking
The absolutely massive amounts of missles and sea artillary on almost every major ukranian city ,many far from.front lines was military troops or targets in resudential.areas.
Most of the damn military is where they belong,on or near the 1000 kilometers of front line.
The rest ,in training ,
That isnt going in residential areas of Nikolayev, kremenchug,dnepropetrovsk,chernihiv,etc etc etc.
You think im burying my head in the sand about them.targeting troops yet you ignore thousands of strikes and vids every week for months of civilians being pulled from.ruble. yes thats worthwhile propoganda for ukraine,and tgey will make the most of it as they should ,it doesnt mean it isnt.occuring as well.
You want to talk mikolaev lets bring up russia struck thier military base there, outskirts of the city a couple months back and killed over 200,wounded a lot more. By your thinking wtf were they guys even doing there when they can jist hide in the residential district right?
But hey some 8 other missles hit residences, so maybe thier chances were better on the base.
Wtf man. Just look at the shear volumn.
To be fair of course the most artilleey strikes are front line.related and in the villages and cities actually engulfed in fighting.
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While Nikolayev (Nikolayev) is the epicenter of the dating scene in Ukraine there are no military targets. There was a major ship building enterprise but it was mothballed. At one point the Dutch firm Dahmen had an interest in the concern, but they are long gone.
North is I think one of the larger nuclear stations of Ukraine.
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You know.what roscoe is ignoring,that the usa dropped two nukes on civilians to make japan copitulate.
Yes yes a smidge of militart target and fwctory was factored in to give legal* premise, yet the munitions factories in hiroishima were left unscathed.
The goal was initimidation by killing civilians.
77 geneva convention addendum addresses such, but its pretty obviuos russias tactic is to initmidate.
You dont use cluster munitions in residential.areas and hospitals like
they have in Nikolayev for any other reason
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You know.what roscoe is ignoring,that the usa dropped two nukes on civilians to make japan copitulate.
Yes yes a smidge of militart target and fwctory was factored in to give legal* premise, yet the munitions factories in hiroishima were left unscathed.
The goal was initimidation by killing civilians.
77 geneva convention addendum addresses such, but its pretty obviuos russias tactic is to initmidate.
You dont use cluster munitions in residential.areas and hospitals like
they have in Nikolayev for any other reason
My position is that Russia is probably intentionally targeting civilians at times. It's war. and they are going to do everything in their power to win it. To this point they have refrained from a few of their options...but everybody knows they exist and they probably remain factored into all the decisions from all parties.
Jonas!
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My position is that Russia is probably intentionally targeting civilians at times. It's war. and they are going to do everything in their power to win it. To this point they have refrained from a few of their options...but everybody knows they exist and they probably remain factored into all the decisions from all parties.
Jonas!
That is the proverbial beast in every war. The US is wont to target civilians in most, if not all, conflict we've been engaged in. Whether it's carpet bombing, nukes, MOABs, machine guns, and yes, even what we call 'smart bombs'. From Berlin, Tokyo/Hiroshima, Serbia, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Libya, Iraq, Syria, etc...
Ukrainians used cluster bomb when it fired on civilians in Lugansk State Administration building at the onset of the 2014 maidan for no apparent reason, then casually blamed it on the 'separatists.
Every one does this. To cite one from the other in these discussions is just plain silly.
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Roscoe,
I am not convientely ignoring strikes at military personell in some city by either side.
I recognize russia will do so,and has done so.
Ukraine has done so in kherson,and effectively.
very few civilians killed there from those strikes as zero are reported.
Yet several hundred russian troops.
I think its around 300 or 400.
Compare that to Nikolayev scenario, and stop making up things i certainly do not ignore and wasnt remotely refering to.
I know a lot of people in that city , and the residential areas hit by over 1000 strikes do not house military troops.
Two or three days into the war the furniture store a block or so from.my mils was hit.
There was absolutely no troops there or any miltaey vehicle, ive fielded this question a dozen times here for several apologists ,so yes when family is in direct danger it gets old doing so.
Weeks later her apartment building itself was hit, no troops there ,or near that section of the city. No tanks hiding in thd courtyard for gawd sakes.
The same day the childrens hospital about 8 blocks over was hit in the front, my sil told me about it,also past member and interpretor strilitz was there with doctors without borders, they were lucky to not be injured.
Its a cancer/oncology childrens hospital.
Two kids were injured in my mil apt building courtyard and an elderly man killed.
There were numerous strikes that day
There have been air,sea and land strikes off and on for 5 months.
A lot of civilians injured or killed.
I havnt heard of a single military person killed there,even by russian claims,other than their strike on the actual.military base.
If they havd with over a 100 strikes hit a headquarters or concesled barracks in the residentual.districts, they sure as hell would have been yaking about it,but zero,nothing,nada.
They just routinely keep sending it.
Maruipol,sure i can see that they were hittimg troop concentratioms when they could.
They certrainly hot some railmfuel and supplyb depots ,and factories thru the country that were strategic in nature.
But youve jumped the shark thinking
The absolutely massive amounts of missles and sea artillary on almost every major ukranian city ,many far from.front lines was military troops or targets in resudential.areas.
Most of the damn military is where they belong,on or near the 1000 kilometers of front line.
The rest ,in training ,
That isnt going in residential areas of Nikolayev, kremenchug,dnepropetrovsk,chernihiv,etc etc etc.
You think im burying my head in the sand about them.targeting troops yet you ignore thousands of strikes and vids every week for months of civilians being pulled from.ruble. yes thats worthwhile propoganda for ukraine,and tgey will make the most of it as they should ,it doesnt mean it isnt.occuring as well.
You want to talk mikolaev lets bring up russia struck thier military base there, outskirts of the city a couple months back and killed over 200,wounded a lot more. By your thinking wtf were they guys even doing there when they can jist hide in the residential district right?
But hey some 8 other missles hit residences, so maybe thier chances were better on the base.
Wtf man. Just look at the shear volumn.
To be fair of course the most artilleey strikes are front line.related and in the villages and cities actually engulfed in fighting.
That’s a fair sized rant.
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Ukraine has done so in kherson,and effectively.
very few civilians killed there from those strikes as zero are reported.
Yet several hundred russian troops.
I think its around 300 or 400.
I don't know where you got that from , but its most definately not true. A large pro-ukrainian Dutch newspaper reported warcrimes commited by Ukraine to which I commented with source just a few days ago on this board.
They bombed supermarkets, hospitals, residential buildings and at least 12 dead with many more wounded.
Editted to add the original post:
quote
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Rosco with this post you're also in denial like a few others.
It is actually clear from the actions in Bucha and the cities above mentioned by AJ that the Russian methodology is to destroy a given city and to instill fear and paranoia into the civilians within the city being bombed into oblivion.
You then write "whilst the Ukrainian fighters get a free pass", as if it's not their territory to begin with. Certainly the west doesn't have clean hands in this mess but why are you trying to justify war crimes?
Civilians have been deliberately targeted from the start which never should have happened.
Russia has lost the war of ideas and will never prevail because they have nothing that people who believe in liberty and self-determination want; quite the opposite really.
Nowhere any any point, have I ever tried to justify a war crime. In fact I know that many horrific things will have happened to many an innocent person, during this conflict.
My point was that whilst Russia or some people within the Russian military may have indeed used the tactics you mention, its certainly not wide scale or the main tactic used in Ukraine as a whole, compared with Grozy for example. Yet people lazily like to trot this untrue line out at their convenience. We know this because most of Ukraine and it's non military buildings are still standing. We know this because Russian troops have suffered high casualty rates by fighting battles in close combat, instead of sitting behind their artillery and aerial bombardments. Strategically some non military buildings will have been targeted as part of demilitarising and destroying communication and logistics. That happens in war, look what we all did to Iraq during desert storm.
I genuinely don't know what to believe from this conflict anymore and I'm pretty much at the point where I expect we're being lied to by both Russia and Ukraine, for their own benefit. One is as bad as the other yet the western default is to give Ukraine a free pass with their BS.
The reality is, Russia will be in the main targeting high value sites and when we remove the rose tinted spectacles and do a bit of digging, it often leads to us finding out that the school/hospital/supermarket/disabled children's hospital, has often in fact been empty and housing Ukrainian military or military hardware. We know this is happening.
There will no doubt be sketchy intelligence and twitchy trigger fingers along with some real rotten b@stards fighting at the tip of the spear but I dont believe for a minute Putin has ordered Russia just to randomly attack apartment blocks in suburbs with no targets around. There is literally nothing to gain.
Rosco there is much to gain from targeting civilians. From the link:
Downes examines several historical cases: British counterinsurgency tactics during the Boer War, the starvation blockade used by the Allies against Germany in World War I, Axis and Allied bombing campaigns in World War II, and ethnic cleansing in the Palestine War. He concludes that governments decide to target civilian populations for two main reasons?desperation to reduce their own military casualties or avert defeat, or a desire to seize and annex enemy territory. When a state's military fortunes take a turn for the worse, he finds, civilians are more likely to be declared legitimate targets to coerce the enemy state to give up. When territorial conquest and annexation are the aims of warfare, the population of the disputed land is viewed as a threat and the aggressor state may target those civilians to remove them. Democracies historically have proven especially likely to target civilians in desperate circumstances.
https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/publications/targeting_civilians_in_war
Desperation to reduce their own military casualties and seize and annex enemy territory in Ukraine, isn't that what Putin wants. If causality reports for Russian troops are really as high as reported Putin certainly wants to reduce them and of course Putin wants as much of Ukraine as possible.
Rosco there is much to gain by targeting civilians.
Indeed it can but again you assume this is the default strategy, when clearly it’s not.
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Ukraine has done so in kherson,and effectively.
very few civilians killed there from those strikes as zero are reported.
Yet several hundred russian troops.
I think its around 300 or 400.
I don't know where you got that from , but its most definately not true. A large pro-ukrainian Dutch newspaper reported warcrimes commited by Ukraine to which I commented with source just a few days ago on this board.
They bombed supermarkets, hospitals, residential buildings and at least 12 dead with many more wounded.
Editted to add the original post:
quote
Yes you posted the article.
And its headlibe moght be sccurste,but the video it showed was of a strike 50 kilometers away from.thier reporting injured.
I did not say civilisn injuroes in simecstrike neverr occured.
I said the two strikes in kherson barracks and headquarters had no civilian injuries reported and that remsins so.
Both of you want.to.pretend russia hadnt targeted civilians,while pointing at ukraine doing so,which is obvious they are not targeting them.
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Video shows 'last minutes' of young girl's life before she was killed in Russian missile attack. Russia has not officially confirmed the strike, but Margarita Simonyan, head of the state-controlled Russian television network RT, said on her messaging app channel that military officials told her a building in Vinnytsia was targeted because it housed Ukrainian "Nazis".
I would assume this is going to be a standard message for future situations where Russian missiles strike Ukrainian civilian targets "Ukrainian Nazis worked/lived/were there."
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-video-shows-last-minutes-211200332.html
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-video-shows-last-minutes-of-young-girls-life-before-she-was-killed-in-russian-missile-attack-12652212
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Yeah there are 5 dead weekly in Nikolayev, 100s and 100s of residential buildings have been hit,they were all.housing troops or nazus i am.certain.
Im sure all.those tochka Us rockets russia declared they did not have when the rail depot was hit in kramatorsk,
Magically appeared by the hundreds on their trains headed to.be used on ukraine as well.
Lots if conformed hits by them since ,but nope it couldnt have been them.
And all those thousands of strikes and civilian.bodies carried out of the ruuble were all staged or redressed out of uniform into regular clothes.
Russia is the kinder gentler superpower
And please dont mind the telegram.vid of early dnr leader shelling both directions out of residential donestsk yelling *wake up.khohols* while laughing .
He was only protecting the
* alley of angels* of course ,
And absolutely was not just stirring hate on both sudes or paying any attention to the patch on his uniform stating * i dont believe in anything,.just here for the violence*
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And its headlibe moght be sccurste,but the video it showed was of a strike 50 kilometers away from.thier reporting injured.
A video, it does not say it didn't happen because a video of something else exists.
Both of you want.to.pretend russia hadnt targeted civilians,while pointing at ukraine doing so,which is obvious they are not targeting them.
And yet, Ukraine deliberately targetted hospitals, houses, basicly everything they are accusing Russia of doing.
And no, I am not making Russia excuses, what they do is equally horrible but enough people are reporting on that so no need to pile on.
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And its headlibe moght be sccurste,but the video it showed was of a strike 50 kilometers away from.thier reporting injured.
A video, it does not say it didn't happen because a video of something else exists.
Both of you want.to.pretend russia hadnt targeted civilians,while pointing at ukraine doing so,which is obvious they are not targeting them.
And yet, Ukraine deliberately targetted hospitals, houses, basicly everything they are accusing Russia of doing.
And no, I am not making Russia excuses, what they do is equally horrible but enough people are reporting on that so no need to pile on.
The video the headline was attached two was two completely seperate incidents.
So yes,as i stated what the article said may be accurate about some othwr incident,but the video of the explosion as its headline had nothing.to do with civilian deaths the article describes.
That is slightly misleading journalism.
It does make me qusstion thier sources.
As far as deliberately targeting the hospital, thats possible but fairly doubtful.
They have wlso told residents of kherson to evacuate.
To be fair i do not think russia deliberately targeted the childrens hospital in Nikolayev either.
Yet its in a residentail.neighborhood that has seen routine strikes by russian forces since febuary 26th or 27th.
Show me a city not in.the front lines (and was called for evacuations) that has seen routine strikes in residential.areas by.ukrainian forces.
Again if donestk is it, then we would have to.include hundreds of telegram videos of dnr units shelling and using rocket systems hidden between the residential.buildings.
Then show me even one like that from Nikolayev.
It might exist,lets see it.
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That’s a fair sized rant.
That it was.
Knowing people harmed and directly affected makes it a bit more personal.
We help refugees here somewhat regularly.
I dont discount the issues of war and both sides playing dirty.
Ive seen it first hand in the middle east
and africa at a level beyond what youd think humans are capable of (and no it was not our troops).
It is however in ukraine heavily lopsIded to the pount that over 260 hospitals or medical buildings damaged on one side, and one shown from.the other side negates it all in peoples minds.
Do i think russia targeted hospitals?no.
Do i think the shear amount of missles launched into heavily congested areas of many cities damaged that many,inclusive of medical.buildings? Yes.
And frankly i do think they have targeted medical supply buildings, food preperation buildings etc.
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Things take a turn for the bizarre yet again and I'm still unsure about who's lying to us more.
Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons to commit and cover up war crimes’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/14/russia-accused-using-stolen-ukrainian-weapons-cover-war-crimes/
According to Zelensky, Russia has stolen western weapons from Ukraine and have attacked schools and hotels, killing or injuring innocent people. Now whilst I'm not privy to enough information to call Zelensky a manipulative liar, even with his more than suspect reputation, we in the west are yet again supposed to take these accusations at face value and send more hate on Russia as a default position.
Keep in mind that this is at a time when Ukrainian troops have been caught doing exactly that to their 'own' people. Hmmmm......
Perhaps this is another reason why we shouldn't be flooding the region with our latest military tech? Cuffy said months ago that some of this stuff will find its way onto the black market and be used against our innocent civilians at some stage.
Can you imagine an angry Arab with a Stinger MANPADS standing at the end of the runway at La Guardia?
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That’s a fair sized rant.
That it was.
Knowing people harmed and directly affected makes it a bit more personal.
We help refugees here somewhat regularly.
I dont discount the issues of war and both sides playing dirty.
Ive seen it first hand in the middle east
and africa at a level beyond what youd think humans are capable of (and no it was not our troops).
It is however in ukraine heavily lopsIded to the pount that over 260 hospitals or medical buildings damaged on one side, and one shown from.the other side negates it all in peoples minds.
Do i think russia targeted hospitals?no.
Do i think the shear amount of missles launched into heavily congested areas of many cities damaged that many,inclusive of medical.buildings? Yes.
And frankly i do think they have targeted medical supply buildings, food preperation buildings etc.
You boys seem to get your arse in a twist when its pointed out to you, that inexcusable stuff is happening on all sides. You seem to keep thinking that we're Putin apologists making excuses for war crimes because we've picked a team to represent.
I/we haven't. I point out the other stuff because without it, you boys would be running an anti Russia/Ukrainian apologist thread where you all blow smoke up each others arses and convince yourself that your one sided take on events is reality.
I'm not going to have another pop at some of the horrific acts carried our by Russian forces, just to keep your emotions in check because its already been said. But I will question stuff we've been asked to accept at face value and I will point out that its a two way street when it comes to barbarism.
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…..Perhaps this is another reason why we shouldn't be flooding the region with our latest military tech? Cuffy said months ago that some of this stuff will find its way onto the black market and be used against our innocent civilians at some stage.
Can you imagine an angry Arab with a Stinger MANPADS standing at the end of the runway at La Guardia?
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…..Perhaps this is another reason why we shouldn't be flooding the region with our latest military tech? Cuffy said months ago that some of this stuff will find its way onto the black market and be used against our innocent civilians at some stage.
Can you imagine an angry Arab with a Stinger MANPADS standing at the end of the runway at La Guardia?
Great video. I'm yet to see this discussed or debated on the main stream but I'm guessing we're still not allowed to piss on their bonfire because the sheep might start to think for themselves?
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Word has it from a very reliable source that some of the weapons are making their way to Syria to help America spread freedom and liberty to the oil fields American troops occupy, which is about 1/3 of the country.
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Word has it from a very reliable source that some of the weapons are making their way to Syria to help America spread freedom and liberty to the oil fields American troops occupy, which is about 1/3 of the country.
We (The US) are free to transport troops across the globe and occupy parts of Syria., with little to nothing said....!
Russia will do the same their own way despite the pleas from western hypocrites
Jonas!
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Things take a turn for the bizarre yet again and I'm still unsure about who's lying to us more.
Sad but true ???
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Things take a turn for the bizarre yet again and I'm still unsure about who's lying to us more.
Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons to commit and cover up war crimes’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/14/russia-accused-using-stolen-ukrainian-weapons-cover-war-crimes/
According to Zelensky, Russia has stolen western weapons from Ukraine and have attacked schools and hotels, killing or injuring innocent people. Now whilst I'm not privy to enough information to call Zelensky a manipulative liar, even with his more than suspect reputation, we in the west are yet again supposed to take these accusations at face value and send more hate on Russia as a default position.
Keep in mind that this is at a time when Ukrainian troops have been caught doing exactly that to their 'own' people. Hmmmm......
Perhaps this is another reason why we shouldn't be flooding the region with our latest military tech? Cuffy said months ago that some of this stuff will find its way onto the black market and be used against our innocent civilians at some stage.
Can you imagine an angry Arab with a Stinger MANPADS standing at the end of the runway at La Guardia?
Russia gets blamed far more because they invaded a sovereign nation. Putin was not forced to invade Ukraine.
There have been videos on social media for months of Russian soldiers abandoning their tanks and other equipment. Some of this equipment was fully functional or could be repaired. I'd imagine some of this abandoned equipment has also been taken and is being sold on the black market to less than scrupulous people.
If only Putin had been smart enough to not invade Ukraine this would not have happened.
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If only Putin had been smart enough to not invade Ukraine this would not have happened.
Putin is smart of course...that's one reason why he has remained in charge for so long. Assuming he is smart, and he has indeed invaded, it's very likely he had good reason.
Jonas!
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Word has it from a very reliable source that some of the weapons are making their way to Syria to help America spread freedom and liberty to the oil fields American troops occupy, which is about 1/3 of the country.
We (The US) are free to transport troops across the globe and occupy parts of Syria., with little to nothing said....!
Russia will do the same their own way despite the pleas from western hypocrites
Jonas!
Russia is knee deep in blood in syria ,so is the u.s.
Having been there decades ago, and it was devastated then, i cant imagine there is much for the two superpowers to fight over.
Oil?
Both countries have a lot of it.
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If only Putin had been smart enough to not invade Ukraine this would not have happened.
Putin is smart of course...that's one reason why he has remained in charge for so long. Assuming he is smart, and he has indeed invaded, it's very likely he had good reason.
Jonas!
Well good for getting rid of old miltary stock, elite units and generals that might present a threat,and the young men from.the outlying provinces and satilite republics .
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If only Putin had been smart enough to not invade Ukraine this would not have happened.
Putin is smart of course...that's one reason why he has remained in charge for so long. Assuming he is smart, and he has indeed invaded, it's very likely he had good reason.
Jonas!
Well good for getting rid of old miltary stock, elite units and generals that might present a threat,and the young men from.the outlying provinces and satilite republics .
Maybe there was another reason for Putin to invade Ukraine? Putin thought there was going to be a coup. So as a distraction he started the war. Sent a lot of the generals and colonels who might be involved in the coup to Ukraine where many were killed or wounded very badly. Any of the politicians who might be involved were disappeared to who knows where. Coup aborted.
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Russia is knee deep in blood in syria ,so is the u.s.
Having been there decades ago, and it was devastated then, i cant imagine there is much for the two superpowers to fight over.
Oil?
Both countries have a lot of it.
yes, both Russia and U.S. have lots of oil.
but if Europe was to get a hold of Ukraine's energy deposits, than who needs the big Russian gas station. in the near future, what happens to Russia without that income, say for the next 5, 10, 20 or so years, or how ever long it takes to use them up? especially after the on going events in Ukraine.
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This is a big part of how Russia lost Ukraine. There was 6.5 million people in Russian controlled Donbas that was reduced to 2.5 million. The 4 million who left felt they could not live there. He does a lot to explain why. If Russia wanted the people of Ukraine to support them, they needed to do a better job in Donbas with the first area they got.
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Russia is knee deep in blood in syria ,so is the u.s.
Having been there decades ago, and it was devastated then, i cant imagine there is much for the two superpowers to fight over.
Oil?
Both countries have a lot of it.
yes, both Russia and U.S. have lots of oil.
but if Europe was to get a hold of Ukraine's energy deposits, than who needs the big Russian gas station. in the near future, what happens to Russia without that income, say for the next 5, 10, 20 or so years, or how ever long it takes to use them up? especially after the on going events in Ukraine.
I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Data is from last year, and its a similar situation for gas, from data which I have at hand..
HTH..
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Word has it from a very reliable source that some of the weapons are making their way to Syria to help America spread freedom and liberty to the oil fields American troops occupy, which is about 1/3 of the country.
As many of us will have read by now, a Ukrainian airline cargo plane crashed in Greece last night, with explosions heard hours after the initial impact. It had been initially reported that the aircraft was carrying hazardous material being delivered to Jordan, and the aircraft journey was spotted on plane finder. We're now being told that whilst it was weapons and ammunition, it has nothing to do with the conflict with Russia and it was heading to Bangladesh. The lady doth protest too much me thinks!!
It has that feeling of a rubbish cover up. More lies being trotted out to the sheep....
https://news.sky.com/story/plane-reportedly-carrying-dangerous-cargo-and-operated-by-ukrainian-airline-crashes-in-greece-12653566
Reuters are now saying that Serbia are claiming that the cargo was a theirs and the buyer was in Bangladesh. They now admit that the aircraft was a stopping in Jordan to refuel and then again stopping again in Saudi and India. All possible but the Antinov AN12 has a range up to 6000km, which is roughly the distance between Serbia and Bangladesh direct.
The aircraft could easily drop it's cargo whilst refuelling in Jordan and then load up with something else for the 2nd or 3rd leg of their alleged journey. They can say it was headed for Greenland or Timbuktu but we'll never find out now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/cargo-plane-crashes-near-greeces-northern-city-kavala-2022-07-16/
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Things take a turn for the bizarre yet again and I'm still unsure about who's lying to us more.
Russia ‘using stolen Western weapons to commit and cover up war crimes’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/14/russia-accused-using-stolen-ukrainian-weapons-cover-war-crimes/
According to Zelensky, Russia has stolen western weapons from Ukraine and have attacked schools and hotels, killing or injuring innocent people. Now whilst I'm not privy to enough information to call Zelensky a manipulative liar, even with his more than suspect reputation, we in the west are yet again supposed to take these accusations at face value and send more hate on Russia as a default position.
Keep in mind that this is at a time when Ukrainian troops have been caught doing exactly that to their 'own' people. Hmmmm......
Perhaps this is another reason why we shouldn't be flooding the region with our latest military tech? Cuffy said months ago that some of this stuff will find its way onto the black market and be used against our innocent civilians at some stage.
Can you imagine an angry Arab with a Stinger MANPADS standing at the end of the runway at La Guardia?
Russia gets blamed far more because they invaded a sovereign nation. Putin was not forced to invade Ukraine.
There have been videos on social media for months of Russian soldiers abandoning their tanks and other equipment. Some of this equipment was fully functional or could be repaired. I'd imagine some of this abandoned equipment has also been taken and is being sold on the black market to less than scrupulous people.
If only Putin had been smart enough to not invade Ukraine this would not have happened.
Thanks for taking the time to reply but none of that addresses the bizarre claims from Zelensky. Your constant get out clause here is simply, but but Putin shouldn't have invaded Ukraine, as though that explains or justifies the lies we get fed daily.
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the roads and there seems to be endless cars/trucks everywhere. Makes me wonder if someday a brick wall is coming.
Jonas!
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Word has it from a very reliable source that some of the weapons are making their way to Syria to help America spread freedom and liberty to the oil fields American troops occupy, which is about 1/3 of the country.
As many of us will have read by now, a Ukrainian airline cargo plane crashed in Greece last night, with explosions heard hours after the initial impact. It had been initially reported that the aircraft was carrying hazardous material being delivered to Jordan, and the aircraft journey was spotted on plane finder. We're now being told that whilst it was weapons and ammunition, it has nothing to do with the conflict with Russia and it was heading to Bangladesh. The lady doth protest too much me thinks!!
It has that feeling of a rubbish cover up. More lies being trotted out to the sheep....
https://news.sky.com/story/plane-reportedly-carrying-dangerous-cargo-and-operated-by-ukrainian-airline-crashes-in-greece-12653566
Reuters are now saying that Serbia are claiming that the cargo was a theirs and the buyer was in Bangladesh. They now admit that the aircraft was a stopping in Jordan to refuel and then again stopping again in Saudi and India. All possible but the Antinov AN12 has a range up to 6000km, which is roughly the distance between Serbia and Bangladesh direct.
The aircraft could easily drop it's cargo whilst refuelling in Jordan and then load up with something else for the 2nd or 3rd leg of their alleged journey. They can say it was headed for Greenland or Timbuktu but we'll never find out now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/cargo-plane-crashes-near-greeces-northern-city-kavala-2022-07-16/
The simplest answer is like the most probable.
Serbia isn't going to cover for Ukraine ,if they say it was thiers it probably was thiers.
Ukrainian cargo is often used for this type of transport,so that isnt usual.
Neither is a planned refueling stop as they arnt pushing limits of a cargo craft's range.
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Word has it from a very reliable source that some of the weapons are making their way to Syria to help America spread freedom and liberty to the oil fields American troops occupy, which is about 1/3 of the country.
As many of us will have read by now, a Ukrainian airline cargo plane crashed in Greece last night, with explosions heard hours after the initial impact. It had been initially reported that the aircraft was carrying hazardous material being delivered to Jordan, and the aircraft journey was spotted on plane finder. We're now being told that whilst it was weapons and ammunition, it has nothing to do with the conflict with Russia and it was heading to Bangladesh. The lady doth protest too much me thinks!!
It has that feeling of a rubbish cover up. More lies being trotted out to the sheep....
https://news.sky.com/story/plane-reportedly-carrying-dangerous-cargo-and-operated-by-ukrainian-airline-crashes-in-greece-12653566
Reuters are now saying that Serbia are claiming that the cargo was a theirs and the buyer was in Bangladesh. They now admit that the aircraft was a stopping in Jordan to refuel and then again stopping again in Saudi and India. All possible but the Antinov AN12 has a range up to 6000km, which is roughly the distance between Serbia and Bangladesh direct.
The aircraft could easily drop it's cargo whilst refuelling in Jordan and then load up with something else for the 2nd or 3rd leg of their alleged journey. They can say it was headed for Greenland or Timbuktu but we'll never find out now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/cargo-plane-crashes-near-greeces-northern-city-kavala-2022-07-16/
The simplest answer is like the most probable.
Serbia isn't going to cover for Ukraine ,if they say it was thiers it probably was thiers.
Ukrainian cargo is often used fur this type if transpirt,so that nothing u usual.
Neither is a planned refueling stop as they arnt pushing limits of a cargo craft's range.
You could be correct but I'd suggest that an aircraft with a range of 6000km, making a flight to its destination around 6000km away and stopping 3 times, one of which is way out the way of the final destination, is a little suspect. They could off course have been stopping to drop/receive additional cargo but they said it was for fuel.
Look at a map and plot Serbia, Jordan, Saudi, India and Bangladesh. It seems rather unnecessary.
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I'm not a pilot ,
And did not plot a flight out between those destinations,but curvature of the earth typically makes flight plans look not direct,when they actually are.
Add in the more direct path might be over ukraine/Russia conflict. And particular fuel stops for the given airline, cant say.
The flight appears to be roughlyb 6600 kilometers, so yeah they absolutely would have fuel stopped planned somewhere.
I'm not saying there couldn't be shady business, however without knowing a normal flight curvature there under existing conditions , it seems to get to shady, you have to start off with the predisposition that something is shady.
🤷♂️
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the roads and there seems to be endless cars/trucks everywhere. Makes me wonder if someday a brick wall is coming.
Jonas!
They sky was falling in 1980.
Our consumption ,and world consumption has increased exponentially and chicken little was wrong all 40 years.
Oil speculation would be over the top if any of that was remotely thought to be the extent of actual reserves.
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The short version is the key players,self appointed admins of lnr dpr killed each other,and killed local people of each others.republics, almost all of them died in the last 8 years,and almost none of them died due to anything Ukrainian government forces related.
They took advantage of local.unrest to seize power then fought and assinated each other,like the mafia thugs they were.
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the roads and there seems to be endless cars/trucks everywhere. Makes me wonder if someday a brick wall is coming.
Jonas!
They sky was falling in 1980.
Our consumption ,and world consumption has increased exponentially and chicken little was wrong all 40 years.
Oil speculation would be over the top if any of that was remotely thought to be the extent of actual reserves.
Yup, I've been reading the same type of stuff for a long time.
I think the reality is that there is probably quite a bit of oil out there, but consumption seems to be incredible. A lot of the easy oil has already been used. For now, business as usual. Kinda like life here in the west. We hear water is soon to be scarce, yet I still see green lawns everywhere and full swimming pools.
Jonas!
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I don't doubt as a species we are foolish enough to use up resources faster than they can be renewed.
We have proven that many times.
Hopefully we've learned from it,but it's a tad doubtful on the larger scale lol
The water shortage out west is real ,only if * the in between states used it to terraform their regions ,instead of cali.?
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the roads and there seems to be endless cars/trucks everywhere. Makes me wonder if someday a brick wall is coming.
Jonas!
They sky was falling in 1980.
Our consumption ,and world consumption has increased exponentially and chicken little was wrong all 40 years.
Oil speculation would be over the top if any of that was remotely thought to be the extent of actual reserves.
Would you be indicating that I am a liar????
https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
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https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
Thank you for posting the link, interesting numbers!
There are some posters that believe the west (US) is stealing the oil of Syria, There is not much to purloin. It is even less than I indicated earlier.
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Some members on RUA say that Ukraine should surrender to Russia to stop the bloodshed of Ukrainian civilians by the Russian military.
At the funeral service for 4-year-old Liza Dmytrieva, who was killed by a Russian missile strike the Orthodox priest conducting the service burst into tears and told weeping relatives that “evil cannot win.”
More and more that seems to be the way many Ukrainians are viewing Russia as evil. Who would want to be ruled by evil?
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/evil-cannot-win-killed-russian-132318796.html
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I'm not a pilot ,
And did not plot a flight out between those destinations,but curvature of the earth typically makes flight plans look not direct,when they actually are.
Add in the more direct path might be over ukraine/Russia conflict. And particular fuel stops for the given airline, cant say.
The flight appears to be roughlyb 6600 kilometers, so yeah they absolutely would have fuel stopped planned somewhere.
I'm not saying there couldn't be shady business, however without knowing a normal flight curvature there under existing conditions , it seems to get to shady, you have to start off with the predisposition that something is shady.
🤷♂️
I'm a private pilot and I can assure you, no commercial flight would make 3 stops for fuel given the aircraft and the departure/arrival airfield. Unless of course there were other reasons to do so. The flight wouldn't need to pass over Ukraine or Russia and one stop for additional fuel would suffice.
Anyhow, you did say the simple answer is the most probable and the most probable right now is that the aircraft was scheduled for multiple stops in different countries, for reasons other than fuel.
The whole thing is just a bit odd.
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yes, both Russia and U.S. have lots of oil.
but if Europe was to get a hold of Ukraine's energy deposits, than who needs the big Russian gas station. in the near future, what happens to Russia without that income, say for the next 5, 10, 20 or so years, or how ever long it takes to use them up? especially after the on going events in Ukraine.
I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Data is from last year, and its a similar situation for gas, from data which I have at hand..
HTH..
I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the roads and there seems to be endless cars/trucks everywhere. Makes me wonder if someday a brick wall is coming.
Jonas!
yes, assuming they are correct.
everyone forgets that Canada has the 3rd highest estimated reserves and 4th overall of proven reserves of oil (wiki) and, per Wiz, just a puppet for the U.S. (evil hegemony and all).
with only 4 years of fuel in Ukraine for the E.U. what does that do for the Russian economy in those four years? Does it collapse or not? does Russia have time to get those pipe lines to India and China in less than 4 years with out Euros flowing in? have to have some kind of world currency, and selling fuels is the big one for Russia.
maybe China would allow Russia to be part of the belt and road initiative (how is that working out for all the other countries?).
let's not start talking about Ukraine being the food basket of Europe
still sounding like the real reason for going all "special operation"
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yes, both Russia and U.S. have lots of oil.
but if Europe was to get a hold of Ukraine's energy deposits, than who needs the big Russian gas station. in the near future, what happens to Russia without that income, say for the next 5, 10, 20 or so years, or how ever long it takes to use them up? especially after the on going events in Ukraine.
I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Data is from last year, and its a similar situation for gas, from data which I have at hand..
HTH..
I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the roads and there seems to be endless cars/trucks everywhere. Makes me wonder if someday a brick wall is coming.
Jonas!
yes, assuming they are correct.
everyone forgets that Canada has the 3rd highest estimated reserves and 4th overall of proven reserves of oil (wiki) and, per Wiz, just a puppet for the U.S. (evil hegemony and all).
with only 4 years of fuel in Ukraine for the E.U. what does that do for the Russian economy in those four years? Does it collapse or not? does Russia have time to get those pipe lines to India and China in less than 4 years with out Euros flowing in? have to have some kind of world currency, and selling fuels is the big one for Russia.
maybe China would allow Russia to be part of the belt and road initiative (how is that working out for all the other countries?).
let's not start talking about Ukraine being the food basket of Europe
still sounding like the real reason for going all "special operation"
If the current round of sanctions last years Russia may have problems with their airline industry. Since Russia can't get parts from Boeing or Airbus repairing those types of planes has become difficult.
When Russia uses all the remaining spare parts and cannibalizes parts from other planes where will Russia get more parts? If parts can't be found in other countries such as India and China one suggestion is for the Russian military to start moving Russian civilians around Russia. Assuming there's not a war going on that might work.
Foreign made parts has also impacted the Russian car industry. The buzz about AvtoVAZ's Lada Granta Classic -- priced to sell at 678,300 rubles ($12,500) -- is about what it doesn't have: No airbags. No antilock brakes. No electronic stability system. No pretensioners to make the seat belts work properly. No GPS. An engine that complies with emissions standards from 26 years ago.
Is the Russian military doing better? Two plants specializing in the manufacture and repair of tanks -- Uralvagonzavod and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant -- were forced to suspend work due to the lack of foreign components. No foreign parts no new or repaired tanks. Want to bet that also applies to fighter jets and naval vessels?
https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/a40398672/sanctions-keep-russia-from-repairing-commercial-airplanes/
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-economy-western-sanctions-twilight-zone/31911576.html
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Assuming these stats are correct, Russia is in an extremely strong position, and the US needs to decrease it's oil use pretty quickly....yet I look at the
Would you be indicating that I am a liar????
https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
If you mean my reference to chicken little it was generic ,not simed at you at all.
Nor was a disputing the claimed proven reserves you had referenced.
My point was the same propoganda was made of we were running out of oil reserves in *,a few years* in the late 70s , only even and odd numveres plates could get gas every other day etc.
Demand amd usage has increased exponentailly and nothings slowing down.
The data you linked is capped at 2016?
The venezualian proven reserves tripled from 2012 to 2016 , and tgat tends to trend in many countries,
that would indicate, more exploration,more oil is proven* to exist
If tgat wasnt tge case we wpukdnt have seen a drop to $40 a barrel just 2 or 3 years ago.
That price drives whether its worth* the extra extration costs in fracking in the bakken fields or the oil sands of alberta vs the shallow easy middle east extration etc.
2tallbill.can chime in and you may knows all this far better than I.
I simply know the skys been falling about oil all my life and is quite unlikely to in my lifetime.
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I'm not a pilot ,
And did not plot a flight out between those destinations,but curvature of the earth typically makes flight plans look not direct,when they actually are.
Add in the more direct path might be over ukraine/Russia conflict. And particular fuel stops for the given airline, cant say.
The flight appears to be roughlyb 6600 kilometers, so yeah they absolutely would have fuel stopped planned somewhere.
I'm not saying there couldn't be shady business, however without knowing a normal flight curvature there under existing conditions , it seems to get to shady, you have to start off with the predisposition that something is shady.
🤷♂️
I'm a private pilot and I can assure you, no commercial flight would make 3 stops for fuel given the aircraft and the departure/arrival airfield. Unless of course there were other reasons to do so. The flight wouldn't need to pass over Ukraine or Russia and one stop for additional fuel would suffice.
Anyhow, you did say the simple answer is the most probable and the most probable right now is that the aircraft was scheduled for multiple stops in different countries, for reasons other than fuel.
The whole thing is just a bit odd.
I agree it's odd overall.
mulitiple stops dont seem that out of the ordinary.
Serbia shipping arms to bangladesh doesnt seem.particularly odd ,given the world circumstances and political alignments.
🤷♂️
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This,obviously from a ukrainian tasked to do these, lays out the ukrainian stance on donbas civilian casualties the prior 8 years.
Yes its going to be one sided .
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Data is from last year, and its a similar situation for gas, from data which I have at hand..
HTH..
Interesting bits of information Gipsy. As a yeoman in this industry, don’t mind me asking these questions.
1. ‘mmfc’. Should that actually be ‘mmcf’? As in thousand thousand cubic feet, or the more familiar ‘million cubic feet’?
2. Oil reserves. Is this the actual extent of the oil deposit plotted, or is it as classified, and true to its meaning ‘reserve’. In the US this ‘reserve’ is known as the strategic petroleum reserve.
3. Finally, did you mean Ukraine having 390,000,000 barrels of oil instead and not mmcf i.e. IIRC there’s about 5.2 cubic feet in a barrel (I’m recalling measure for water not oil, 7.48 gallons/cubic feet - measure of a ‘unit’ in the US is 100 cf). I wonder if they share the same linearity.
Thanks.
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let's not start talking about Ukraine being the food basket of Europe
still sounding like the real reason for going all "special operation"
I continue to hold that Russia would have preferred to not "HAVE TO" do this invasion. I suspect from their view, the risk of losing Ukraine entirely to western influence was an unacceptable risk to their security. Now that so much blood has been spilled, Russia may have the attitude of 'we are going to take all we can'. I don't see them permitting much of Ukraine to function as a normal country, because clearly whatever is left will be strongly working against Russia, and with cause. Apparently west is good with the quagmire despite the deleterious effects we the people contend with. Pales in comparison to the effects/inflation poorer nations will have to endure
Jonas!
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If the current round of sanctions last years Russia may have problems with their airline industry. Since Russia can't get parts from Boeing or Airbus repairing those types of planes has become difficult.
When Russia uses all the remaining spare parts and cannibalizes parts from other planes where will Russia get more parts? If parts can't be found in other countries such as India and China one suggestion is for the Russian military to start moving Russian civilians around Russia. Assuming there's not a war going on that might work.
Is the Russian military doing better? Two plants specializing in the manufacture and repair of tanks -- Uralvagonzavod and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant -- were forced to suspend work due to the lack of foreign components. No foreign parts no new or repaired tanks. Want to bet that also applies to fighter jets and naval vessels?
You seem to want to believe that Russia will sit scratching their head regarding parts. I doubt that. I'm sure they are capable enough to make parts, and China can also help. There may be some delays at first but if they need parts, they will find a way to get them.
The ultimate result is west shooting itself in the foot once again. Russia will get parts straight from China leaving out American companies that stood to get some profit.
Jonas!
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I wish to differ..
The US, without any imports/exports, has enough proven oil reserves to last for about 5 yrs at current usage rates.. (35,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Russia, given the same conditions, has enough oil to last about 80yrs at current consumption rates.. (80,000,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
Ukraine, same conditions, has enough oil to last about 4 yrs... (390,000,000 mmfc proven reserves)
The EU, consumes about 2.2 mmcf/day, so Ukraine's oil reserves would not last very long at all..
Data is from last year, and its a similar situation for gas, from data which I have at hand..
HTH..
Interesting bits of information Gipsy. As a yeoman in this industry, don’t mind me asking these questions.
1. ‘mmfc’. Should that actually be ‘mmcf’? As in thousand thousand cubic feet, or the more familiar ‘million cubic feet’?
2. Oil reserves. Is this the actual extent of the oil deposit plotted, or is it as classified, and true to its meaning ‘reserve’. In the US this ‘reserve’ is known as the strategic petroleum reserve.
3. Finally, did you mean Ukraine having 390,000,000 barrels of oil instead and not mmcf i.e. IIRC there’s about 5.2 cubic feet in a barrel (I’m recalling measure for water not oil, 7.48 gallons/cubic feet - measure of a ‘unit’ in the US is 100 cf). I wonder if they share the same linearity.
Thanks.
You are correct, it should all read "Barrels", my apologies, my thoughts were elsewhere at the time of writing....
MMCF is used mainly in gas calculations and not oil..
Proven reserves, relate only to the oil still in the ground in any/all current working, it does not include any countries non working, capped, abandoned fields, strat/mil reserves...
Basically it means any oil/gas field where there is a profitable extraction possible...
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You are correct, it should all read "Barrels", my apologies, my thoughts were elsewhere at the time of writing....
MMCF is used mainly in gas calculations and not oil..
Proven reserves, relate only to the oil still in the ground in any/all current working, it does not include any countries non working, capped, abandoned fields, strat/mil reserves...
Basically it means any oil/gas field where there is a profitable extraction possible...
Thanks for the elaboration, Gipsy!
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
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https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
Thank you for posting the link, interesting numbers!
There are some posters that believe the west (US) is stealing the oil of Syria, There is not much to purloin. It is even less than I indicated earlier.
The above link from Gypsy defines the oil reserves. Gypsy also noted that the greatest assets is the coal fields in the Donbas region. But still it is not anything spectacular.
Ukraines greatest strength comes from its cereal production, which so far removed from any conflicts. There are grains grown in the East but they are percentage wise small.
Here is another link that helps understand the oil reserves it confirms the above.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/oil-production-by-country
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let's not start talking about Ukraine being the food basket of Europe
still sounding like the real reason for going all "special operation"
I continue to hold that Russia would have preferred to not "HAVE TO" do this invasion. I suspect from their view, the risk of losing Ukraine entirely to western influence was an unacceptable risk to their security. Now that so much blood has been spilled, Russia may have the attitude of 'we are going to take all we can'. I don't see them permitting much of Ukraine to function as a normal country, because clearly whatever is left will be strongly working against Russia, and with cause. Apparently west is good with the quagmire despite the deleterious effects we the people contend with. Pales in comparison to the effects/inflation poorer nations will have to endure
Jonas!
Jonas if Russia is not willing to Ukraine function as a sovereign nation why should the west let Russia function as a sovereign nation?
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If the current round of sanctions last years Russia may have problems with their airline industry. Since Russia can't get parts from Boeing or Airbus repairing those types of planes has become difficult.
When Russia uses all the remaining spare parts and cannibalizes parts from other planes where will Russia get more parts? If parts can't be found in other countries such as India and China one suggestion is for the Russian military to start moving Russian civilians around Russia. Assuming there's not a war going on that might work.
Is the Russian military doing better? Two plants specializing in the manufacture and repair of tanks -- Uralvagonzavod and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant -- were forced to suspend work due to the lack of foreign components. No foreign parts no new or repaired tanks. Want to bet that also applies to fighter jets and naval vessels?
You seem to want to believe that Russia will sit scratching their head regarding parts. I doubt that. I'm sure they are capable enough to make parts, and China can also help. There may be some delays at first but if they need parts, they will find a way to get them.
The ultimate result is west shooting itself in the foot once again. Russia will get parts straight from China leaving out American companies that stood to get some profit.
Jonas!
Specialized parts require specialized machinery. If Russia is closing down tank manufacture and repair plants those plants aren't coming back for quite a while because the needed parts come from western manufacturers and if Russia could produce them they would. Maybe a few years down the road machinery can be built to produce the parts? Maybe not.
China's not going to put money into making specialized parts only Russia needs in one specialized sector, that's not profitable.
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Specialized parts require specialized machinery. If Russia is closing down tank manufacture and repair plants those plants aren't coming back for quite a while because the needed parts come from western manufacturers and if Russia could produce them they would. Maybe a few years down the road machinery can be built to produce the parts? Maybe not.
China's not going to put money into making specialized parts only Russia needs in one specialized sector, that's not profitable.
I think China has a solution. Require Russian to buy all Chinese cars, trucks, farm equipment and let Russia scrap its current fleet. I think the Chinese will look at it like why sell a part when you can sell a whole car or whatever. China does not want to share power with Russia, so they want to see the destruction of Russia they are just providing lip service for a short-term gain. China is looking at the stan countries just south or Russia. They are hoping Russia will lose in this war so they can step in and make these countries in the sphere of influence without have to go to war. They are letting NATO and Ukraine do the heavy lifting while they benefit.
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If the current round of sanctions last years Russia may have problems with their airline industry. Since Russia can't get parts from Boeing or Airbus repairing those types of planes has become difficult.
When Russia uses all the remaining spare parts and cannibalizes parts from other planes where will Russia get more parts? If parts can't be found in other countries such as India and China one suggestion is for the Russian military to start moving Russian civilians around Russia. Assuming there's not a war going on that might work.
Is the Russian military doing better? Two plants specializing in the manufacture and repair of tanks -- Uralvagonzavod and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant -- were forced to suspend work due to the lack of foreign components. No foreign parts no new or repaired tanks. Want to bet that also applies to fighter jets and naval vessels?
You seem to want to believe that Russia will sit scratching their head regarding parts. I doubt that. I'm sure they are capable enough to make parts, and China can also help. There may be some delays at first but if they need parts, they will find a way to get them.
The ultimate result is west shooting itself in the foot once again. Russia will get parts straight from China leaving out American companies that stood to get some profit.
Jonas!
Specialized parts require specialized machinery. If Russia is closing down tank manufacture and repair plants those plants aren't coming back for quite a while because the needed parts come from western manufacturers and if Russia could produce them they would. Maybe a few years down the road machinery can be built to produce the parts? Maybe not.
China's not going to put money into making specialized parts only Russia needs in one specialized sector, that's not profitable.
Oh dear, more SISO from WC..
Tank manufacturers and repair facilities are most certainly NOT closing down..
Many Russian owned companies have modernised their facilities with state of the art machinery.
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
So not only our resident oil expert, you now claim to be our resident gas expert..
Ukraine's largest gas fields are all about 80% depleted....
90% of their gas supply comes from the fields in Dnipro and Donbass areas..
10% from the black sea (Crimean waters including)/Azov sea (now under Russian control) and the Carpathian area
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
So not only our resident oil expert, you now claim to be our resident gas expert..
Ukraine's largest gas fields are all about 80% depleted....
90% of their gas supply comes from the fields in Dnipro and Donbass areas..
10% from the black sea (Crimean waters including)/Azov sea (now under Russian control) and the Carpathian area
The Carpathian oil fields are extremely local and tiny. I have seen three of the antiquated production facilities. I would be surprised if the Carpathian oil fields are even on a statistic.
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
So not only our resident oil expert, you now claim to be our resident gas expert..
Ukraine's largest gas fields are all about 80% depleted....
90% of their gas supply comes from the fields in Dnipro and Donbass areas..
10% from the black sea (Crimean waters including)/Azov sea (now under Russian control) and the Carpathian area
The Carpathian oil fields are extremely local and tiny. I have seen three of the antiquated production facilities. I would be surprised if the Carpathian oil fields are even on a statistic.
Having seen probably the same as you, I would agree.. tiphat
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
So not only our resident oil expert, you now claim to be our resident gas expert..
Ukraine's largest gas fields are all about 80% depleted....
90% of their gas supply comes from the fields in Dnipro and Donbass areas..
10% from the black sea (Crimean waters including)/Azov sea (now under Russian control) and the Carpathian area
There are undeveloped fields in Donbas and the offshore fields are underdeveloped off Crimea because Russia took them over 2014 which may not last long. Near snake island there are fields never developed part of why they fight over it so much. The undeveloped fields Donbas are because no one wanted to invest there because of the risk being so close to Russia. If this threat goes away things will change. I think we will find going forward oil will start to have less value and gas will be what is hot.
Ukraine likely to get USA f-16 fighter jets next year and the balance of power will change a lot. By the end of August Russia will be so military depleted they will be lucky to hold the ground they have. Ukraine will start an offensive near Kerson soon. Russian troops and infrastructure on Crimea likely get hit next year. Over the next two months the Land lease weapons will continue to show up in numbers. These weapons are so important Russia has made it a priority to target them before they get to the battlefield. Ukraine is slowly being converted to being one of the most powerful and modern armies in the world.
If Ukraine can get away with being Pro western what is to keep the stan and nearby countries from becoming pro-western and sell gas to Europe and not pay Russia. That would total kill Russia selling natural gas. Turkey has a large gas find which they have not started to develop yet.
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
So not only our resident oil expert, you now claim to be our resident gas expert..
Ukraine's largest gas fields are all about 80% depleted....
90% of their gas supply comes from the fields in Dnipro and Donbass areas..
10% from the black sea (Crimean waters including)/Azov sea (now under Russian control) and the Carpathian area
There are undeveloped fields in Donbas and the offshore fields are underdeveloped off Crimea because Russia took them over 2014 which may not last long. Near snake island there are fields never developed part of why they fight over it so much. The undeveloped fields Donbas are because no one wanted to invest there because of the risk being so close to Russia. If this threat goes away things will change. I think we will find going forward oil will start to have less value and gas will be what is hot.
Ukraine likely to get USA f-16 fighter jets next year and the balance of power will change a lot. By the end of August Russia will be so military depleted they will be lucky to hold the ground they have. Ukraine will start an offensive near Kerson soon. Russian troops and infrastructure on Crimea likely get hit next year. Over the next two months the Land lease weapons will continue to show up in numbers. These weapons are so important Russia has made it a priority to target them before they get to the battlefield. Ukraine is slowly being converted to being one of the most powerful and modern armies in the world.
If Ukraine can get away with being Pro western what is to keep the stan and nearby countries from becoming pro-western and sell gas to Europe and not pay Russia. That would total kill Russia selling natural gas. Turkey has a large gas find which they have not started to develop yet.
Well Tex, If you believe what you have read elsewhere and written here, then I feel sorry for you, there is no antidote known to mankind that can save you...
BTW, did you know that Ukraine have asked all EU countries, the UK, and the US to return to them all able-bodied males over 18 and under 65 ..
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let's not start talking about Ukraine being the food basket of Europe
still sounding like the real reason for going all "special operation"
I continue to hold that Russia would have preferred to not "HAVE TO" do this invasion. I suspect from their view, the risk of losing Ukraine entirely to western influence was an unacceptable risk to their security. Now that so much blood has been spilled, Russia may have the attitude of 'we are going to take all we can'. I don't see them permitting much of Ukraine to function as a normal country, because clearly whatever is left will be strongly working against Russia, and with cause. Apparently west is good with the quagmire despite the deleterious effects we the people contend with. Pales in comparison to the effects/inflation poorer nations will have to endure
Jonas!
Jonas if Russia is not willing to Ukraine function as a sovereign nation why should the west let Russia function as a sovereign nation?
...and if the US isn't going to let Syria or Libya function why a sovereign nation why should Russia allow Ukraine function as a sovereign nation?
Try as we do, the reality is we (The US) do not have the capacity to prevent Russia from functioning as a sovereign nation, even with other nations backing us up.
Jonas!
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If the current round of sanctions last years Russia may have problems with their airline industry. Since Russia can't get parts from Boeing or Airbus repairing those types of planes has become difficult.
When Russia uses all the remaining spare parts and cannibalizes parts from other planes where will Russia get more parts? If parts can't be found in other countries such as India and China one suggestion is for the Russian military to start moving Russian civilians around Russia. Assuming there's not a war going on that might work.
Is the Russian military doing better? Two plants specializing in the manufacture and repair of tanks -- Uralvagonzavod and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant -- were forced to suspend work due to the lack of foreign components. No foreign parts no new or repaired tanks. Want to bet that also applies to fighter jets and naval vessels?
You seem to want to believe that Russia will sit scratching their head regarding parts. I doubt that. I'm sure they are capable enough to make parts, and China can also help. There may be some delays at first but if they need parts, they will find a way to get them.
The ultimate result is west shooting itself in the foot once again. Russia will get parts straight from China leaving out American companies that stood to get some profit.
Jonas!
Specialized parts require specialized machinery. If Russia is closing down tank manufacture and repair plants those plants aren't coming back for quite a while because the needed parts come from western manufacturers and if Russia could produce them they would. Maybe a few years down the road machinery can be built to produce the parts? Maybe not.
China's not going to put money into making specialized parts only Russia needs in one specialized sector, that's not profitable.
Not accurate.
A smaller Chinese company would be just fine with a smaller order if that is what is needed at the moment, and if these are going to be part needed going forward. Once again, the Chinese can cut out the western middleman...so as usual the west is blowing off more of it's own toes.
Jonas!
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let's not start talking about Ukraine being the food basket of Europe
still sounding like the real reason for going all "special operation"
I continue to hold that Russia would have preferred to not "HAVE TO" do this invasion. I suspect from their view, the risk of losing Ukraine entirely to western influence was an unacceptable risk to their security. Now that so much blood has been spilled, Russia may have the attitude of 'we are going to take all we can'. I don't see them permitting much of Ukraine to function as a normal country, because clearly whatever is left will be strongly working against Russia, and with cause. Apparently west is good with the quagmire despite the deleterious effects we the people contend with. Pales in comparison to the effects/inflation poorer nations will have to endure
Jonas!
I agree with this. :thumbsup:
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If the current round of sanctions last years Russia may have problems with their airline industry. Since Russia can't get parts from Boeing or Airbus repairing those types of planes has become difficult.
When Russia uses all the remaining spare parts and cannibalizes parts from other planes where will Russia get more parts? If parts can't be found in other countries such as India and China one suggestion is for the Russian military to start moving Russian civilians around Russia. Assuming there's not a war going on that might work.
Is the Russian military doing better? Two plants specializing in the manufacture and repair of tanks -- Uralvagonzavod and the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant -- were forced to suspend work due to the lack of foreign components. No foreign parts no new or repaired tanks. Want to bet that also applies to fighter jets and naval vessels?
You seem to want to believe that Russia will sit scratching their head regarding parts. I doubt that. I'm sure they are capable enough to make parts, and China can also help. There may be some delays at first but if they need parts, they will find a way to get them.
The ultimate result is west shooting itself in the foot once again. Russia will get parts straight from China leaving out American companies that stood to get some profit.
Jonas!
Or Boeing and Airbus supply the parts on the grounds of safety. I highly doubt either company would wish to see their aircraft involved in any major accident.
Time marches forward and eventually most essentials and many luxuries will return to Russia. A new disaster will rear its ugly head elsewhere, the corporations will once again do business with Russia and the global short term memory syndrome will create opportunity whilst the sheep live in the media shade.
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I read that somewhere here someone though that Ukraine oil and gas did not matter because it would only supply the EU for four years. It would supply half of what Russia supplies to the EU for twenty years. Russia supplies the EU 30 per cent of the gas and if you would make that 15 per cent then Ukraine gas would last 24 years. It would damage Russia a lot.
Keeping this gas off the market is one of the big reasons for the war. Taking control of it is very import to Russia.
So not only our resident oil expert, you now claim to be our resident gas expert..
Ukraine's largest gas fields are all about 80% depleted....
90% of their gas supply comes from the fields in Dnipro and Donbass areas..
10% from the black sea (Crimean waters including)/Azov sea (now under Russian control) and the Carpathian area
There are undeveloped fields in Donbas and the offshore fields are underdeveloped off Crimea because Russia took them over 2014 which may not last long. Near snake island there are fields never developed part of why they fight over it so much. The undeveloped fields Donbas are because no one wanted to invest there because of the risk being so close to Russia. If this threat goes away things will change. I think we will find going forward oil will start to have less value and gas will be what is hot.
Ukraine likely to get USA f-16 fighter jets next year and the balance of power will change a lot. By the end of August Russia will be so military depleted they will be lucky to hold the ground they have. Ukraine will start an offensive near Kerson soon. Russian troops and infrastructure on Crimea likely get hit next year. Over the next two months the Land lease weapons will continue to show up in numbers. These weapons are so important Russia has made it a priority to target them before they get to the battlefield. Ukraine is slowly being converted to being one of the most powerful and modern armies in the world.
If Ukraine can get away with being Pro western what is to keep the stan and nearby countries from becoming pro-western and sell gas to Europe and not pay Russia. That would total kill Russia selling natural gas. Turkey has a large gas find which they have not started to develop yet.
Yea because an aircraft launched in the 70’s is going to completely swing the conflict in Ukraine’s favour :ROFL:
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Gipsy, i have 3 able bodied cousins in ukraine, 29 to 40.
They volunteered early ,
their infornation taken,
and were told they were not needed ,they would be called if so..
Not yet.
I do know two that are in.the military there, one in territorial.defense ,the other in the AFU.
There is a lack of.trained men, and training personal, no lack of men.
They might be calling men back from.other countries but at the moment they couldnt train them.when they get there.
They havnt called up.men in country for that reason
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Ukraine likely to get USA f-16 fighter jets next year and the balance of power will change a lot. By the end of August Russia will be so military depleted they will be lucky to hold the ground they have. Ukraine will start an offensive near Kerson soon. Russian troops and infrastructure on Crimea likely get hit next year. Over the next two months the Land lease weapons will continue to show up in numbers. These weapons are so important Russia has made it a priority to target them before they get to the battlefield. Ukraine is slowly being converted to being one of the most powerful and modern armies in the world.
Yea because an aircraft launched in the 70’s is going to completely swing the conflict in Ukraine’s favour :ROFL:
I wrote in other thread (Russian losses) about the F-16s. these are not going to be 70s aircraft. the F-16s will be new builds with older F-16s upgraded to latest block. and 40 aircraft of this caliber, regardless of origin (U.S., Russian, French, British or any other country) will be a game changer.
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Ukraine likely to get USA f-16 fighter jets next year and the balance of power will change a lot. By the end of August Russia will be so military depleted they will be lucky to hold the ground they have. Ukraine will start an offensive near Kerson soon. Russian troops and infrastructure on Crimea likely get hit next year. Over the next two months the Land lease weapons will continue to show up in numbers. These weapons are so important Russia has made it a priority to target them before they get to the battlefield. Ukraine is slowly being converted to being one of the most powerful and modern armies in the world.
Yea because an aircraft launched in the 70’s is going to completely swing the conflict in Ukraine’s favour :ROFL:
I wrote in other thread (Russian losses) about the F-16s. these are not going to be 70s aircraft. the F-16s will be new builds with older F-16s upgraded to latest block. and 40 aircraft of this caliber, regardless of origin (U.S., Russian, French, British or any other country) will be a game changer.
Except Russia has about 9 Sukhoi 57's now. I read about 3 crashes with 12 original built. Since Russia switches to a war-economy you can bet that new builts will be sooner rather than later. Meanwhile those 9 can shoot down F16's in a ratio 3:1 ? eg: it will take 3 F16 to down 1 sukhoi? that means they are evenly matched already and soon Russia will have the upper hand.
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I wrote in other thread (Russian losses) about the F-16s. these are not going to be 70s aircraft. the F-16s will be new builds with older F-16s upgraded to latest block. and 40 aircraft of this caliber, regardless of origin (U.S., Russian, French, British or any other country) will be a game changer.
Except Russia has about 9 Sukhoi 57's now. I read about 3 crashes with 12 original built. Since Russia switches to a war-economy you can bet that new builts will be sooner rather than later. Meanwhile those 9 can shoot down F16's in a ratio 3:1 ? eg: it will take 3 F16 to down 1 sukhoi? that means they are evenly matched already and soon Russia will have the upper hand.
you are hoping that will be the ratio. and as long as the Russian air force is willing to risk those Su-57 in the Ukraine theater. it would be a high value target and lots of hunters that would like to bag a Felon.
not to knock the Su-57s it is good/great effective aircraft. (have the Russians fixed the engines yet or are they still flying with Su-35 engines?) the Su-57s are not all aspect stealth. which means they can be spotted by sensors from other aircraft, perhaps the awacs directing the F-16s (or other assets). then it comes down to more pilot skill, less aircraft technology.
I would assume that the Su-57 are going to be flown by high hours pilots. the pilots that are being sent to U.S. to train on F-16s, I would think that they will be high hour pilots also.
a few of the simulator vids I have watched have shown the Su-57 dominating in a turn fight vs a F-15C. so probably the Felon winning a turn fight with a F-16 also. other vids have talked about the F-22 having the edge over the Felon in most statistics (radar, avionics and stealth), but the Felon winning a slow turn fight most of the time. the winner comes down to pilot and circumstances. generally the F-22 is assumed to have seen the Su-57 first due to F-22's superior radar and better stealth.
I have not been able to find any 3 on 1 simulations of any kind (did not search real hard), but it seems to me that 3 (your number) F-16s, with awacs, would give a single Felon a bit of trouble and win a good portion of the time. so many variables to think about. who spots who first? the Felon most likely spots the F-16s before they spot the Felon, but when does the awacs spot the Felon and tell the F-16 pilots (remembering the frontal aspect stealth only)?
my opinion, if the 40 F-16s show up in Ukraine in about 6 months time and the 9 (I have not found any evidence to support that number though) Su-15s are there also...
with awacs both sides, and all other things being equal a forced confrontation of the 9 vs 40, likely there would be a lopsided win for the Felons. stealth and super maneuverability has its advantages.
but I think it unlikely that would ever happen.
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A lot of speculation over aircraft that are pretty clearly not being asked for with the intended use of air to air combat or air.superiorty battles,or planned emp.blasts (:)
The comparisons are relevant,but over event horizon has been the bulk of air to air for decades, and ground to air has been the reality of threat for decades.
So that's what these new birds will mostly face.not dogfights.
If ukraine wanted F35s then they would ask for them.
Its assumed they.wouldnt get them.nor be able to train to effectively use them.in the timeframe needed
40, F16s are better than, no f16s.
It's that simple.
Russia has used a lot of this generation fighter and older in this conflict.why did they bother doing so?
Because they had them.and they are effective
9, su 57s ,none of which have seemingly been used in the Ukrainian theater ?would face more dsnger from.ground to air than air to air,no different than has been the case in this theatre all along.
Russia isnt going to ramp.up and produce a few squadrons of su57 in any short time frame.
If they cant achieve their goals without them, then they are very unlikely to be achieved.
It's like postulating *if ukraine gets even.more western aid and a squadron of f35s and training.
In what time frame?
Neither is realistic in this conflict.
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Ukraine likely to get USA f-16 fighter jets next year and the balance of power will change a lot. By the end of August Russia will be so military depleted they will be lucky to hold the ground they have. Ukraine will start an offensive near Kerson soon. Russian troops and infrastructure on Crimea likely get hit next year. Over the next two months the Land lease weapons will continue to show up in numbers. These weapons are so important Russia has made it a priority to target them before they get to the battlefield. Ukraine is slowly being converted to being one of the most powerful and modern armies in the world.
Yea because an aircraft launched in the 70’s is going to completely swing the conflict in Ukraine’s favour :ROFL:
I wrote in other thread (Russian losses) about the F-16s. these are not going to be 70s aircraft. the F-16s will be new builds with older F-16s upgraded to latest block. and 40 aircraft of this caliber, regardless of origin (U.S., Russian, French, British or any other country) will be a game changer.
Updated with modern equipment yet still an older generation fighter, vulnerable to modern technology. Yea I'm sure 40 F16's would help Ukraine but it won't make Russia run for the hills and panic. It's just 40 more targets to aim at.
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A lot of speculation over aircraft that are pretty clearly not being asked for with the intended use of air to air combat or air.superiorty battles,or planned emp.blasts (:)
The comparisons are relevant,but over event horizon has been the bulk of air to air for decades, and ground to air has been the reality of threat for decades.
So that's what these new birds will mostly face.not dogfights.
If ukraine wanted F35s then they would ask for them.
Its assumed they.wouldnt get them.nor be able to train to effectively use them.in the timeframe needed
40, F16s are better than, no f16s.
It's that simple.
Russia has used a lot of this generation fighter and older in this conflict.why did they bother doing so?
Because they had them.and they are effective
9, su 57s ,none of which have seemingly been used in the Ukrainian theater ?would face more dsnger from.ground to air than air to air,no different than has been the case in this theatre all along.
Russia isnt going to ramp.up and produce a few squadrons of su57 in any short time frame.
If they cant achieve their goals without them, then they are very unlikely to be achieved.
It's like postulating *if ukraine gets even.more western aid and a squadron of f35s and training.
In what time frame?
Neither is realistic in this conflict.
yes, that is my opinion about the F-16s also. most likely to be used as ground attack, I wrote that in other thread (russian losses) I did not mention any F-35s, only trying to show what the Felon is capable of.
I wrote in other thread (Russian losses) about the F-16s. these are not going to be 70s aircraft. the F-16s will be new builds with older F-16s upgraded to latest block. and 40 aircraft of this caliber, regardless of origin (U.S., Russian, French, British or any other country) will be a game changer.
Updated with modern equipment yet still an older generation fighter, vulnerable to modern technology. Yea I'm sure 40 F16's would help Ukraine but it won't make Russia run for the hills and panic. It's just 40 more targets to aim at.
nope, no reason for Russia to run to the hills and panic, until they are overhead, of course.
I think that you miss understand what "updated with modern equipment" means (part of these F-16s are new builds). you do realize that the airframe, regardless of age or configuration, is just a means to carry around that modern technology? examples are the upgraded B-52s and even the MiG-21s, both 1950s era airframes (there are other airframes also). both effective war planes when used in the correct context. these F-16s, you casually denigrate, are going to be carrying modern technology. if used in correct context, very effective war planes and can make a difference in Ukraine. in 6 months of course, if the internet news articles are to be believed.
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A lot of speculation over aircraft that are pretty clearly not being asked for with the intended use of air to air combat or air.superiorty battles,or planned emp.blasts (:)
The comparisons are relevant,but over event horizon has been the bulk of air to air for decades, and ground to air has been the reality of threat for decades.
So that's what these new birds will mostly face.not dogfights.
If ukraine wanted F35s then they would ask for them.
Its assumed they.wouldnt get them.nor be able to train to effectively use them.in the timeframe needed
40, F16s are better than, no f16s.
It's that simple.
Russia has used a lot of this generation fighter and older in this conflict.why did they bother doing so?
Because they had them.and they are effective
9, su 57s ,none of which have seemingly been used in the Ukrainian theater ?would face more dsnger from.ground to air than air to air,no different than has been the case in this theatre all along.
Russia isnt going to ramp.up and produce a few squadrons of su57 in any short time frame.
If they cant achieve their goals without them, then they are very unlikely to be achieved.
It's like postulating *if ukraine gets even.more western aid and a squadron of f35s and training.
In what time frame?
Neither is realistic in this conflict.
yes, that is my opinion about the F-16s also. most likely to be used as ground attack, I wrote that in other thread (russian losses) I did not mention any F-35s, only trying to show what the Felon is capable of.
I wrote in other thread (Russian losses) about the F-16s. these are not going to be 70s aircraft. the F-16s will be new builds with older F-16s upgraded to latest block. and 40 aircraft of this caliber, regardless of origin (U.S., Russian, French, British or any other country) will be a game changer.
Updated with modern equipment yet still an older generation fighter, vulnerable to modern technology. Yea I'm sure 40 F16's would help Ukraine but it won't make Russia run for the hills and panic. It's just 40 more targets to aim at.
nope, no reason for Russia to run to the hills and panic, until they are overhead, of course.
I think that you miss understand what "updated with modern equipment" means (part of these F-16s are new builds). you do realize that the airframe, regardless of age or configuration, is just a means to carry around that modern technology? examples are the upgraded B-52s and even the MiG-21s, both 1950s era airframes (there are other airframes also). both effective war planes when used in the correct context. these F-16s, you casually denigrate, are going to be carrying modern technology. if used in correct context, very effective war planes and can make a difference in Ukraine. in 6 months of course, if the internet news articles are to be believed.
I agree with a lot of that except you misunderstand the reality of what an upgraded 4th generation fighter jet can do against a 5th. There's literally a reason why the 5th is now replacing the 4th and often the airframes are the limitation. B52's are the rare exception because its a vehicle to drop ordinance as opposed to raw capability.
I'm not here to argue and slag off the f16s because its been a cheap, simple and effective aircraft for a long time. But the fact is its old skool and outdated when it comes to the new gen plus an S400 would see coming from miles away.
Back to the discussion, Ukrainian pilots wearing 40 shiny new helmets and taking off in F16s, if this is even accurate, isn't going to change what Russia do. They'll just get hammered from distance at the airfield or shot out the air when attacking. Tex seems to think because the F16 is American, is better than what Russia have.
The F16 isn't even in the current top 10.
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/30000-top-10-most-advanced-fighter-jets-of-2022
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I agree with a lot of that except you misunderstand the reality of what an upgraded 4th generation fighter jet can do against a 5th. There's literally a reason why the 5th is now replacing the 4th and often the airframes are the limitation. B52's are the rare exception because its a vehicle to drop ordinance as opposed to raw capability.
I'm not here to argue and slag off the f16s because its been a cheap, simple and effective aircraft for a long time. But the fact is its old skool and outdated when it comes to the new gen plus an S400 would see coming from miles away.
Back to the discussion, Ukrainian pilots wearing 40 shiny new helmets and taking off in F16s, if this is even accurate, isn't going to change what Russia do. They'll just get hammered from distance at the airfield or shot out the air when attacking. Tex seems to think because the F16 is American, is better than what Russia have.
The F16 isn't even in the current top 10.
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/30000-top-10-most-advanced-fighter-jets-of-2022
interesting list. not much to quibble about it, but 2 of the top 10 are Chinese aircraft with very little known about them???
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One of what 10? su34m was shot down today (likely by friendly fire )
Surface to air.
Thats the real world.
The debating su57 su34s,
vs the dated f16 is funny in that context.
Russia has lost at least 2 of the 10 su34m ?
They were replacing thier dated attack craft at a rate of 8 to 12 annually.
So to me this entire su34, su57 conjecture in air superiority seems moot.
Yes great planes.
Better than previous gens.
In a dog fight vastly superior.
And in the battle in ukraine its highly unlikely .
They wont be enough of them,
And dogfights are not likely to be much of a factor,surface to air is the real.danger.
As proven all this this 5 month conflict regardless airframe.
Most of this has been carried out over russian airspace by any type of russian aircraft for dang good reason.
That reason is after 5 months, and thousands of missle strikes in ukraine, russia still.hasnt been able to effectively take out ukrainian AA.
If it was gone how much more effective could ANY gen of plane they have be?
They would mop the AFU up.
I said from.week 2 or so,i would dearly hate to be a russian grunt with the lack of airsupport.
So the question isnt what planes will be in this theatre,but why russia cant control ukrainian AA so far.
Sea wise Russias gone from having a really capable AS/ AA platform like moskva and control.of snake island for similar and having freedom.of movement in the region
To having neither,and pulling from the fleet back from.sevastopol.
They have made ground advances despite this but thats a big step backwards no matter how you slice it.
With the airbases in crimea and kherson oblast,and control of the black sea ,
they should have been able to easily ensure no counter offensive there at all.
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Medvedev warns swift judgement day if UA uses US HIMARS to attack strategic targets in Crimea (Sevastapol).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11023987/Former-Russian-president-Dmitry-Medvedev-warns-Judgement-Day-response-disputes-Crimea.html
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Medvedev warns swift judgement day if UA uses US HIMARS to attack strategic targets in Crimea (Sevastapol).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11023987/Former-Russian-president-Dmitry-Medvedev-warns-Judgement-Day-response-disputes-Crimea.html
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They have threatened such on countless things since day one.
Next will be if zelensky burps too loud.
If crimea is the hill.russia wants to die on,maybe the west.should say ok.
Time for bluffing.is over ,do it or shut up.
Sabre rattling is getting old.
The reality is crimea is very defendable,if russia fears they cant hold it conventionally against a country they are beating in war ,then wtf..
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The reality is crimea is very defendable,if russia fears they cant hold it conventionally against a country they are beating in war ,then wtf..
Russia did not say that at all, they said that if an attempt is made, retaliation will be brutal.
Imho, Russia is just looking for openings to have a brutal assault without western condemnation (which they wont find)
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https://headtopics.com/us/ukraine-has-sold-12-4-billion-in-gold-reserves-since-war-s-start-deputy-banking-head-28225309
Ukraine 's central bank has sold $12.4 billion in gold reserves since the beginning of Russia's invasion in February, the country's central bank's deputy head revealed on Sunday.
"We are selling [this gold] so that our importers are able to buy necessary goods for the country," she said. UKRAINE NEEDS $9 BILLION IN FOREIGN AID PER MONTH, TOP ZELENSKY ADVISER SAYS The claimed amount far exceeds Ukraine's gold reserves just prior to the war. For the first quarter of 2022, Ukraine's gold reserves totaled 27.06 tons, valued at $1.69 billion, according to the World Gold Council. The $12.4 billion in gold reserves the nation claims to have sold since the start of the war is the equivalent of 491 tons, or 18 times larger than the first quarter gold reserves.
Read more: Washington Examiner »
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The reality is crimea is very defendable,if russia fears they cant hold it conventionally against a country they are beating in war ,then wtf..
Russia did not say that at all, they said that if an attempt is made, retaliation will be brutal.
Imho, Russia is just looking for openings to have a brutal assault without western condemnation (which they wont find)
Agreed.
The implication is they fear an attack on thier own land or lands they annexed.
They have rattled *retaliation beyond comprehension * sabres since day one.
any justified, or unjustifiable ,reasons for attacking ukraine, doesnt change the facts that they attack ukraine almost daily for 5 months well beyond any disputed territory.
As such, ukraine attacking thier territory,or any annexed territories should be expected.
Instead they rattle sabres and expect a country,or if one prefers, regime, they are attacking to cower and attack only where russia allows* without undue* retaliation.
Its a ridiculous premise even for Russia.
Man up if justified , and declare war allowing no holds barred war conventionally on both sides or they should stop the silly squaking.
1000s of missles launched with most targets deep.in ukraine,not near the front or front supply area depots.
Most launched from.crimea,russia proper, belarus,or the black sea.
So the western world simply isnt going to condemn ukraine for hitting into crimea,gomel , belgorod or the black sea etc, thats just how it is.
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Agreed.
The implication is they fear an attack on thier own land or lands they annexed.
They have rattled *retaliation beyond comprehension * sabres since day one.
any justified, or unjustifiable ,reasons for attacking ukraine, doesnt change the facts that they attack ukraine almost daily for 5 months well beyond any disputed territory.
As such, ukraine attacking thier territory,or any annexed territories should be expected.
Instead they rattle sabres and expect a country,or if one prefers, regime, they are attacking to cower and attack only where russia allows* without undue* retaliation.
Its a ridiculous premise even for Russia.
Man up if justified , and declare war allowing no holds barred war conventionally on both sides or they should stop the silly squaking.
1000s of missles launched with most targets deep.in ukraine,not near the front or front supply area depots.
Most launched from.crimea,russia proper, belarus,or the black sea.
So the western world simply isnt going to condemn ukraine for hitting into crimea,gomel , belgorod or the black sea etc, thats just how it is.
'dem fighting words may soon come to fruition. Mama always said to 'be careful what you wish for'.
All these talks of 'offensive weaponry' supply to Ukraine could've have escalated this silly war, and I'm sure to the jubilation of the peanut gallery, that prompted airing a PSA in NYC not too many days ago to get them prepared to the inevitable.
It's funny in a way how running and staying inside a building would actually help anyone...but that's just me. No one can ever convince me Ukraine is anywhere near being worth this much...
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My thoughts were to Russia in regards to thier squaking at ukraine.
They want to rape ,punch,kick ukraine in all territories,without declaring war, yet want to cry about it if ukaine bitch slaps them in disputed territory like crimea.
I do say tough shit.
That isnt fighting words, they are already fighting.
RussIa feels only they can esculate.
And dammot if ukraine has weapons they can only use them in ukraine.
Hysterical.
Your point russia is upset at the.west giving them.weapons is valid.
But it wasnt my point.
If a ukrainian sof unit moved into moscow and hit a residential building with.weapons they already had, or readily available fertilzer and components in country, the russians sheiiet would litarilly hit the fan.
That stance ,considering the 1000s of missles that have hit ukrainian residentisl.buildings is ridiculous.
They should man up.and expext such, since they are doing so and worse.
Why havnt they declared war?
Why attack a country then expect they cant attack you?
They want to control.the rules of engagement within the context of conventional conflict.
What to strike out at the u.s or its holdings over funding and arming ukraine? Or being involved in their politics?
Thats far more valid issue than the constant whining that ukraine might hit them.back.
I just tire of the whining.
And yes thats likely from.a military background
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My thoughts were to Russia in regards to thier squaking at ukraine.
They want to rape ,punch,kick ukraine in all territories,without declaring war, yet want to cry about it if ukaine bitch slaps them in disputed territory like crimea.
I do say tough shit.
That isnt fighting words, they are already fighting.
RussIa feels only they can esculate.
And dammot if ukraine has weapons they can only use them in ukraine.
Hysterical.
Your point russia is upset at the.west giving them.weapons is valid.
But it wasnt my point.
If a ukrainian sof unit moved into moscow and hit a residential building with.weapons they already had, or readily available fertilzer and components in country, the russians sheiiet would litarilly hit the fan.
That stance ,considering the 1000s of missles that have hit ukrainian residentisl.buildings is ridiculous.
They should man up.and expext such, since they are doing so and worse.
Why havnt they declared war?
Why attack a country then expect they cant attack you?
They want to control.the rules of engagement within the context of conventional conflict.
What to strike out at the u.s or its holdings over funding and arming ukraine? Or being involved in their politics?
Thats far more valid issue than the constant whining that ukraine might hit them.back.
I just tire of the whining.
And yes thats likely from.a military background
Good post.
It points to the moral hypocrisy of some posters, because the West supplies weapons to Ukraine it is a proxy war. That Russia invades a sovereign nation it is a special military operation.
Guess what by most metrics thanks to Ukraine blood Russia is suffering.
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My thoughts were to Russia in regards to thier squaking at ukraine.
They want to rape ,punch,kick ukraine in all territories,without declaring war, yet want to cry about it if ukaine bitch slaps them in disputed territory like crimea.
I do say tough shit.
That isnt fighting words, they are already fighting.
RussIa feels only they can esculate.
And dammot if ukraine has weapons they can only use them in ukraine.
Russia gave its threats which I would guess they will follow through with. It's just reality. If Ukraine decides to see for themselves, I think they will end up destroyed with weapons of mass destruction, but it is their choice. From Russia's view I'd suspect there are no longer 'rules'. The more the West interferes with their invasion, the worse it will get for Ukraine. As long as Ukraine is willing to suffer the consequence, it shall continue. I don't know if news is correct but at some point, Russia may run out of normal weapons. If their goal isn't accomplished, I think they will use whatever other weapons are available to them. I think they would use everything available to them before they would throw in the towel.
Jonas!
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My thoughts were to Russia in regards to thier squaking at ukraine.
They want to rape ,punch,kick ukraine in all territories,without declaring war, yet want to cry about it if ukaine bitch slaps them in disputed territory like crimea.
I do say tough shit.
That isnt fighting words, they are already fighting.
RussIa feels only they can esculate.
And dammot if ukraine has weapons they can only use them in ukraine.
Russia gave its threats which I would guess they will follow through with. It's just reality. If Ukraine decides to see for themselves, I think they will end up destroyed with weapons of mass destruction, but it is their choice. From Russia's view I'd suspect there are no longer 'rules'. The more the West interferes with their invasion, the worse it will get for Ukraine. As long as Ukraine is willing to suffer the consequence, it shall continue. I don't know if news is correct but at some point, Russia may run out of normal weapons. If their goal isn't accomplished, I think they will use whatever other weapons are available to them. I think they would use everything available to them before they would throw in the towel.
Jonas!
Do you know how the prevailing winds cross the European Asian continent?
Free hint look up the jet stream. Where we grew up we had a simple expression do not s h i t in your own backyard.
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Jonas, I know you feel they wont back down.
You might be right.
But yapping at Ukraine, not to strike crimea, while daily launching missles for 5 months into the interior is also just hypocrisy.
If ukraine hits Crimean targets (there are 3 ir 4 airbases there crucial.to russian invasion ) and russia acts on their threats,
That is russia esulating the conflict ,not ukraine.
Ukraine has every right to target those.
There hasnt been a single airfield anywhere in ukraine untouched by russian strikes.
Now do I think they should take Crimea or attempt to? No.
But hitting airfields there absolutely
Russia wants to take on the west over it all? And likely.lose everything
Meh. Doubtful.
They were in dang good shape before this,and backing down they would be in good shape.
Status quo they can be in good shape
Escalation that you worry over ,nope.
They have had 5 months to escalate in ukraine.
We did see some phosphorous and seemingly a bit of thermobaric early on.
But not since,and no huge air support which they *could * provide if willing to lose some decent numbers of aircraft,which they have on hand.
They would have likely mopped up completely by now.
The time for that has been now,not later.
So they are unwilling so far to even commit their full airforce to this operation, so I don't see esculation,
I see yapping by putins witch on tv to the masses that even many Russians dont listen to.
I see yapping by kadyrov ,which to be fair had some good recon troops ,but sure as hell isnt headed to Warsaw like his commanders brag about.
Lots of barking typically is done when you know you dont have enough bite.
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Jonas, I know you feel they wont back down.
You might be right.
But yapping at Ukraine, not to strike crimea, while daily launching missles for 5 months into the interior is also just hypocrisy.
If ukraine hits Crimean targets (there are 3 ir 4 airbases there crucial.to russian invasion ) and russia acts on their threats,
That is russia esulating the conflict ,not ukraine.
Ukraine has every right to target those.
There hasnt been a single airfield anywhere in ukraine untouched by russian strikes.
Now do I think they should take Crimea or attempt to? No.
But hitting airfields there absolutely
Russia wants to take on the west over it all? And likely.lose everything
Meh. Doubtful.
They were in dang good shape before this,and backing down they would be in good shape.
Status quo they can be in good shape
Escalation that you worry over ,nope.
They have had 5 months to escalate in ukraine.
We did see some phosphorous and seemingly a bit of thermobaric early on.
But not since,and no huge air support which they *could * provide if willing to lose some decent numbers of aircraft,which they have on hand.
They would have likely mopped up completely by now.
The time for that has been now,not later.
So they are unwilling so far to even commit their full airforce to this operation, so I don't see esculation,
I see yapping by putins witch on tv to the masses that even many Russians dont listen to.
I see yapping by kadyrov ,which to be fair had some good recon troops ,but sure as hell isnt headed to Warsaw like his commanders brag about.
Lots of barking typically is done when you know you dont have enough bite.
with out disagreeing
my little yap yap makes a lot of noise and runs away, until cornered and he stops yapping and draws blood
Kadyrov is more kitten than anything. yowling hissing and humping back. and just as comical
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Perhaps of interest. Note that the more (longer range) the west "helps" Ukraine with weapons, the harder it gets for Russia, and the more the "line" reflecting Russian demands moves west. If Russia is doing this "Special Operation" to ensure they have a buffer, giving Ukraine 300km range HIMARS systems is playing into the hands of the Russian faction that wants to keep moving west. :duh:
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My guess is that the Russian strategy has altered slightly since the collective West decided to join the Ukrainian conflict.
Time is no longer of the essence in Ukraine. Now the wider war is largely economic. And no, the United States is not immune.
The economic war is not just Russia vs the collective West. But those battle lines are not yet clear.
Yes, the EU has taken the first and largest hits but the shots to the foot have been made in the United States as well.
Triumphalism from under informed USAians is fun to read but the outcomes will be as unfortunate in that part of the world as elsewhere - just in a different form.
In trying to be objective I simply cannot understand how well-informed people with the good condition of their countries and economies could have made such a sub-optimal set of choices. My conclusion is that we have seen people imposing policies that further their dogma using the Russian SMO as the excuse.
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in trying to be objective I simply cannot understand how well-informed people with the good condition of their countries and economies could have made such a sub-optimal set of choices.
Funny how that fits both directions equally well.
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My thoughts were to Russia in regards to thier squaking at ukraine.
They want to rape ,punch,kick ukraine in all territories,without declaring war, yet want to cry about it if ukaine bitch slaps them in disputed territory like crimea.
I do say tough shit.
That isnt fighting words, they are already fighting.
RussIa feels only they can esculate.
And dammot if ukraine has weapons they can only use them in ukraine.
Hysterical.
Your point russia is upset at the.west giving them.weapons is valid.
But it wasnt my point.
If a ukrainian sof unit moved into moscow and hit a residential building with.weapons they already had, or readily available fertilzer and components in country, the russians sheiiet would litarilly hit the fan.
That stance ,considering the 1000s of missles that have hit ukrainian residentisl.buildings is ridiculous.
They should man up.and expext such, since they are doing so and worse.
Why havnt they declared war?
Why attack a country then expect they cant attack you?
They want to control.the rules of engagement within the context of conventional conflict.
What to strike out at the u.s or its holdings over funding and arming ukraine? Or being involved in their politics?
Thats far more valid issue than the constant whining that ukraine might hit them.back.
I just tire of the whining.
And yes thats likely from.a military background
AJ-
Everyone squacks and whine in this conflict. To whine and squack about one party and not the other, just makes one an equally squacking whiner like any other.
Ukraine & Zelensky squacks and whine everyday for every single aspect of this since the invasion. They even do it openly on social media, European summit, etc..Heck, they even whined to any US delegation silly enough to listen. Did you know Ukraine boast the largest DC squacking, whining lobbyists now and even BEFORE the invasion? I would bet you didn't know that, did you? Only one person was known to be a 'registered' squacker/whiner. The BIGGEST!!!
The Biggest DC Squacker/Whiner in DC (https://www.vox.com/23188403/inside-ukraine-foreign-lobbying-blitz-washington-fara-justice)
Ukraine has unleashed an incredible influence campaign in Washington. There’s a lag to the filing of lobbying disclosures. But even in the lead-up to the war last year, Ukraine’s lobbyists made more than 10,000 contacts with Congress, think tanks, and journalists. That’s higher than the well-funded lobbyists of Saudi Arabia, and experts on foreign lobbying told Vox they expect that this year’s number will grow much higher.
Hell, I can't really blame them. Wifey and I were squackers/whiners too the day after the invasion. Even held a sign that read 'I Stand with Ukraine'. Those Ukrainian Russian-Speaking citizens too were squacking and whining when the illegal 2014 coup happened and found out their first language was banned for usage in the country they live in. Bunch of gawdamned squacking whiners!
So you see, we all squack and whine as much as Putin, you, me and attention starved LeBron James..
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My point was yet again russia wants to smack someone,
then whine st even the possibility of them.getting smacked back.
Your retort is the party that gets smacked whines.
Go figure eh?
Youve been on this banned for usage of russian language for awhile,
Yet the entire time many cities ( a very big percentage of ukraines population) nowhere nesr the alledged infringed people of donbas, spoke
primaruly russian daily,24/7 /364 those 8 years regardless.
You might as well say its illegal.to.pass gas,and se how anyones life was actually effected.
Ot was a talking point of contention for a group already looking for something to be further upset about.
I certainly agree it should hsve been handled better.
Obviously i feel the entire disaster should hsve been handled better,by both sides.
It wasnt ,and here we are.
With one side laying the smack down,yet insisting noone can hit them back.
You see the cruise missle attacks on the city of Nikolayev again this morning?
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And thank you for sharing on the lobbyists ,I assumed they had one,but did not know who or extent.
Makes sense overall.
Looks like Russia could have out bid, just like they could hsve for the Ukrainian presidency but choose to spend billions in other ways ,choices choices.
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My point was yet again russia wants to smack someone,
then whine st even the possibility of them.getting smacked back.
Your retort is the party that gets smacked whines.
Go figure eh?
Youve been on this banned for usage of russian language for awhile,
Yet the entire time many cities ( a very big percentage of ukraines population) nowhere nesr the alledged infringed people of donbas, spoke
primaruly russian daily,24/7 /364 those 8 years regardless.
You might as well say its illegal.to.pass gas,and se how anyones life was actually effected.
Ot was a talking point of contention for a group already looking for something to be further upset about.
I certainly agree it should hsve been handled better.
Obviously i feel the entire disaster should hsve been handled better,by both sides.
It wasnt ,and here we are.
With one side laying the smack down,yet insisting noone can hit them back.
You see the cruise missle attacks on the city of Nikolayev again this morning?
This language thing is much different than seen my most. Ukraine was trying to separate itself from Russia as it was concern of another invasion and wanted to their people identify with Ukraine. Russia sees this as a treat from ever getting control of Ukraine. This is why this language is such a big deal. They only had to use Ukrainian language to conduct business. AS more Ukrainians realized what the reason was about, they were using Ukrainian language all over the country even where it was not required. Invasions do not happen for just one reason. But part of this was Ukraine was going more apart from Russia and the language was one of the ways this was happening. Since Ukraine is getting over whelming support from its people it obviously worked and all the stuff we crap from Russian propaganda is just crying from the Russian side over their lost.
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My point was yet again russia wants to smack someone,
then whine st even the possibility of them.getting smacked back.
Your retort is the party that gets smacked whines.
Go figure eh?
Sounds a whole lot like many of our global military excursions, doesn’t it? See what I mean about this universal squawking whiners? :saint:
Youve been on this banned for usage of russian language for awhile,
Yet the entire time many cities ( a very big percentage of ukraines population) nowhere nesr the alledged infringed people of donbas, spoke
primaruly russian daily,24/7 /364 those 8 years regardless.
You might as well say its illegal.to.pass gas,and se how anyones life was actually effected.
I’m one of those who’d rather understand root causes of present day problems or conflict. I do realize many would rather view current state of affairs in a narrow perspective. That reality had been prevalent in all of our global conflict past and present. That way when things like….
you see the cruise missile attacks on the city of Nikolayev again this morning?
Simply tells me such incidences are the result of failure to recognize problems before it springs out of control. But that’s just me.
Ot was a talking point of contention for a group already looking for something to be further upset about.
Like that proverbial body part, nearly most everyone have at least ‘one’.
I certainly agree it should hsve been handled better.
Obviously i feel the entire disaster should hsve been handled better,by both sides.
It wasnt ,and here we are.
This disaster, unfortunately, isn’t just between ‘both’ (two) sides. That, AJ, is what you can’t seem to realize, and what many here have relayed. I’m of the mind to choose to see this conflict in a far broader perspective.
With one side laying the smack down,yet insisting noone can hit them back.
You see the cruise missle attacks on the city of Nikolayev again this morning?
I do wonder if it’s tough for you to maintain that sentiment being an American.
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And thank you for sharing on the lobbyists ,I assumed they had one,but did not know who or extent.
Makes sense overall.
Looks like Russia could have out bid, just like they could hsve for the Ukrainian presidency but choose to spend billions in other ways ,choices choices.
Yup. Agree. There were always ‘choices’. All in precious hindsight.
Saw Nope last night with wifey. Poignant message to open the movie. Nahum 3.6:
~I will cast abominable filth upon you. Make you vile. Turn you into a spectacle~
(IINM, I think the phrase was actually: “ And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and make thee vile, and will set thee as a gazingstock”.)
You can just about apply this to any of the parties involved in this madness.
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My point was yet again russia wants to smack someone,
then whine st even the possibility of them.getting smacked back.
Your retort is the party that gets smacked whines.
Go figure eh?
Youve been on this banned for usage of russian language for awhile,
Yet the entire time many cities ( a very big percentage of ukraines population) nowhere nesr the alledged infringed people of donbas, spoke
primaruly russian daily,24/7 /364 those 8 years regardless.
You might as well say its illegal.to.pass gas,and se how anyones life was actually effected.
Ot was a talking point of contention for a group already looking for something to be further upset about.
I certainly agree it should hsve been handled better.
Obviously i feel the entire disaster should hsve been handled better,by both sides.
It wasnt ,and here we are.
With one side laying the smack down,yet insisting noone can hit them back.
You see the cruise missle attacks on the city of Nikolayev again this morning?
This language thing is much different than seen my most. Ukraine was trying to separate itself from Russia as it was concern of another invasion and wanted to their people identify with Ukraine. Russia sees this as a treat from ever getting control of Ukraine. This is why this language is such a big deal. They only had to use Ukrainian language to conduct business. AS more Ukrainians realized what the reason was about, they were using Ukrainian language all over the country even where it was not required. Invasions do not happen for just one reason. But part of this was Ukraine was going more apart from Russia and the language was one of the ways this was happening. Since Ukraine is getting over whelming support from its people it obviously worked and all the stuff we crap from Russian propaganda is just crying from the Russian side over their lost.
This post sounds like you’re not aware about the factions and divide Ukraine had and still has. Not every Ukrainian wants to stay part of the current government set up and quite a few would fight for their independence.
Suggesting that every Ukrainian wants to separate from Russia is a lie.
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The vast majority of Ukrainians, even in Donbas, do not wish to be part of Russia. You can read about it in polls. Moreover, those that do wish to join Russia are overwhelmingly over 45 years of age. They long for a return of the USSR, when basic needs were met, albeit badly, by the state. This is particularly true in Lugansk and Donetsk, where unemployment was high, and their local (pro Russia) politicians hunted people for sport.
Given Russia wishes to obliterate Ukrainian identity (a recurring theme in Ukrainian history), any Ukrainian who knows history understands that Russian rule means the obliteration of Ukraine and Ukrainian national identity. How long, in such a nation, before Ukrainians are sent to gulags yet again for the "crime" of wishing to speak, and write, in Ukrainian?
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I’m one of those who’d rather understand root causes of present day problems or conflict. I do realize many would rather view current state of affairs in a narrow perspective. That reality had been prevalent in all of our global conflict past and present. That way when things like….
Any person taking that approach would have a more even-handed reaction to what has happened this year with Russia/Ukraine. Despite the phony way much of the western media couches it, it certainly isn't a clear cut bad/evil verses saintly angels of the west. Media propaganda works for most though.
Jonas!
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Well I've certainly never stated the west was angelic.
From.day one of 2014 acknowledged that the west manipulated.
Condemning Russias invasion is
not saying Ukraine or the west is without fault.
Pointing out the neck deep manipulations of Russia from.day 1 of Ukraine's independence as being hypocritical.to the west's manipulations, well that is just stating the obviously that some blame layers seemingly want to avoid.
Yet again folks blaming a prostitute(if they will) for changing pimps,or blaming the new pimp as the root cause of the old pimp raping and attempting to to murder her,is insane.
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This post sounds like you’re not aware about the factions and divide Ukraine had and still has. Not every Ukrainian wants to stay part of the current government set up and quite a few would fight for their independence.
Suggesting that every Ukrainian wants to separate from Russia is a lie.
Nowhere in any country is there a 100 per cent of anybody for anything, but the numbers are very high to be anti-Russian even in eastern Ukraine. I very well know about there is two language speaking regions but in recent years that has much been reduced as more Ukrainians speak Ukrainian all the time. During the war, Russia makes the number more in their favor by getting rid of those that do not like them by reducing the population. In the breakaway regions it was a reduction of two thirds. What is left after a Russian occupies a territory is mainly old people who cannot leave and who do not care who the government is as long as someone pays their pensions. My girl is from Lugansk. She is now forty years and all here friends her age left. Her mother stayed who collected retirements checks from Russia and before the war also from Ukraine. In all areas Russia occupies in Ukraine have large population reductions in most case well over the two thirds. The ongoing war in Donbas cause many Ukrainians to turn away from Russia as it is easy to see they are not doing anything for the people of Ukraine with their war. No one is being protected only death and destruction.
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Well I've certainly never stated the west was angelic.
From.day one of 2014 acknowledged that the west manipulated.
Hola! I didn't mean to imply you specifically were making out the west as angelic. I've run across people who do though. Makes things simple to refuse to try to see both sides of a situation.
Jonas!
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Well I've certainly never stated the west was angelic.
From.day one of 2014 acknowledged that the west manipulated.
Hola! I didn't mean to imply you specifically were making out the west as angelic. I've run across people who do though. Makes things simple to refuse to try to see both sides of a situation.
Jonas!
Or are center a little or an adjustment in one’s perspective. Sometimes recognizing there are more than one way to resolve problems. At times, the easiest one seem to be the last one tried.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheFigen/status/1550489097273237504?s=20&t=-2zEYZYZ1x9dwgC2rDg2Ww
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Well I've certainly never stated the west was angelic.
From.day one of 2014 acknowledged that the west manipulated.
Hola! I didn't mean to imply you specifically were making out the west as angelic. I've run across people who do though. Makes things simple to refuse to try to see both sides of a situation.
Jonas!
Or maybe a little change, or an adjustment, in one’s perspective.
Sometimes recognizing there are more than one way to resolve problems. At times, the easiest one seem to be the last one tried.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheFigen/status/1550489097273237504?s=20&t=-2zEYZYZ1x9dwgC2rDg2Ww
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The vast majority of Ukrainians, even in Donbas, do not wish to be part of Russia. You can read about it in polls. Moreover, those that do wish to join Russia are overwhelmingly over 45 years of age. They long for a return of the USSR, when basic needs were met, albeit badly, by the state. This is particularly true in Lugansk and Donetsk, where unemployment was high, and their local (pro Russia) politicians hunted people for sport.
Given Russia wishes to obliterate Ukrainian identity (a recurring theme in Ukrainian history), any Ukrainian who knows history understands that Russian rule means the obliteration of Ukraine and Ukrainian national identity. How long, in such a nation, before Ukrainians are sent to gulags yet again for the "crime" of wishing to speak, and write, in Ukrainian?
Are you suggesting that the vast majority of Ukrainians in Crimea don’t wish to be part of Russia?
Texan writes as if all Ukrainians want nothing to do with them, which is of course untrue.
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Yes, the vast majority of ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea did not wish to be part of Russia. But they only represented about 16% of the total population.
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Strategic Intelligence status of UA and RU War:
Even U.S. Military Experts Now Admit That Ukraine Is Losing The War
We’ve all been fed a steady stream of propaganda by Ukraine and the White House since the War in Ukraine began. Remember how the Ukrainian “volunteers” in camo holding automatic rifles all looked like Vogue fashion models? Turns out they were models, and the photos were all posed for propaganda purposes. Remember the videos of Russian tanks being blown up? Turns out many of those videos were of the same tank filmed from different angles and being shown over and over to create the impression of success against Russian armor. On the ground, Ukrainian volunteers are being killed in large numbers and many others are wounded, have deserted or have surrendered to the Russians.
You wouldn’t know any of this if you relied on mainstream U.S. media. Yet, now the situation for Ukraine is so dire that even Western experts are starting to admit that Russia is winning, and Ukraine’s prospects are that it will lose large parts of its territory, including most of its industrial and natural resource capacity. This article by a retired U.S. Marine Corps colonel and deputy commander of Special Operations Command is a case in point. The article deals candidly with Russian success on the battlefield. The Russian push has been slow and brutal, but it is producing results including Russian control of about one-third of Ukraine, the entire coast of the Sea of Azov and major steel facilities in cities such as Mariupol. It also describes how the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being seriously depleted and are having difficulty maintaining a troop presence on the front lines in Eastern Ukraine.
Finally, the article is critical of Ukrainian delusions that they can push the Russians out and reclaim territory that has already been lost. As a retired U.S. military officer, the author does make a pitch for more weapons systems to be sent to Ukraine. Still, the reality on the ground is that even when these systems are delivered to Ukraine (which is a daunting logistical task), they are often blown-up by Russian missiles, stuck in depots because they cannot be moved to the front, or cannot be used by untrained Ukrainian troops if they do make it to the front.
Experts and those who have developed good sourcing have known that Ukraine would lose from the start of this war. Now, even the U.S. military and mainstream media are coming to the same conclusion. Just because Ukraine will lose the war, does not mean the war will be over quickly. As long as the U.S. and NATO-member weapons shipments keep coming, the Ukrainian forces may continue the fight. Still, casualties are high. It does appear that Biden is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian. That’s a tragedy for Ukraine and for the world.
###
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The real tragedy for the world is Russia does not plan to stop any time soon. This war very might make ww2 look like child's play with billions of dead people before it is all over. Putin willing to starve billions of people to win. Nuclear subs with 100meg tone torpedoes nuclear heads to sea. He will easily be beat in Ukraine but that will not likely end the war whether he wins or loses. Ukraine is on purpose not getting enough weapons to win quickly to keep Putin tied up and to drag the war on. There will be no winners as the people of Russia will have their lives ruin as much if not more than elsewhere. The only thing that is happening here is Putin has bragging rights he invaded Europe using nuclear black mail. This is far worse than any time during the cold war and is shaping up to be worse than anything in ww2 because of the weapons that are at play. The world supply chain makes the stakes very high as much of the world will likely starve because of the war. Some pro-Russian people like to brag Russia will starve billions in Africa as a weapon and do not see the moral problem with this. If Putin is willing to starve billions what else will he do? When this is over Putin will make Hitler look like a saint. Understand we are in the first few months of what is likely to be a very long war.
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Still, casualties are high. It does appear that Biden is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian. That’s a tragedy for Ukraine and for the world.
###
Tragic as this reality is, one wonders if the US and Zelensky, and all the cheering supporters of the continued arming of Ukraine, and refusal to find a solution for peace can somehow find contentment in realizing their wishes are granted.
I feel for those who were sacrificed for whatever purpose the US and Europe had in Ukraine. Shame indeed. To think, prior to the 2014 illegal coup, the majority of Ukrainians were against joining NATO, not realizing then, it will be NATO that ushers them to slaughter like sheep.
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Tragic as this reality is, one wonders if the US and Zelensky, and all the cheering supporters of the continued arming of Ukraine, and refusal to find a solution for peace can somehow find contentment in realizing their wishes are granted.
I feel for those who were sacrificed for whatever purpose the US and Europe had in Ukraine. Shame indeed. To think, prior to the 2014 illegal coup, the majority of Ukrainians were against joining NATO, not realizing then, it will be NATO that ushers them to slaughter like sheep.
Yea the latest Russia propaganda is Russia is protecting Ukrainians from the west. The people of Ukraine have nothing to worry about because Mother Russia will protect them.
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....
wouldn’t know any of this if you relied on mainstream U.S. media.
True.
Yet relying on retired generals ,or military experts* like ritter, all of whom so far have been wrong ,seems equally silly.
Now if they would care to share how a vid of a singular tank taken from 800 different angles
changes anything about
the facts on the battlefield of over 800 confirmed verified individual tank losses by russia , i am all ears.
I suppose Crews of thousands of propagandists developing fake vids in hundreds of different terrian,weather , and the munitions used scenarios ,
different models of tanks,
different markings, and also faked the geo location of those images as well .
Great job by whomever overcame all the open source data showing that?
Certainly russia is winning, but to even slightly imply thier heavy losses are mostly all contrived by western media is a bit much as well.
Next up,the ukraine flag on snake island is a hoax, the moskva dint really sink,and the bulk of black sea fleet wasnt actually pulled back to Novorossiysk.
Kiev, Kharkov,sumy,chernihiv ,dnepropetrovsk ,zap, Mikolaev and odesa are actually under russian control .
And 5 months in, russia is only
instituting an operational.pause
to give ukraine a break from thier massive gain of 10 to 12%(approxomate) more territory of ukraine than they previously held before feb 24th
:/
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The real tragedy for the world is Russia does not plan to stop any time soon. This war very might make ww2 look like child's play with billions of dead people before it is all over. Putin willing to starve billions of people to win. Nuclear subs with 100meg tone torpedoes nuclear heads to sea. He will easily be beat in Ukraine but that will not likely end the war whether he wins or loses. Ukraine is on purpose not getting enough weapons to win quickly to keep Putin tied up and to drag the war on. There will be no winners as the people of Russia will have their lives ruin as much if not more than elsewhere. The only thing that is happening here is Putin has bragging rights he invaded Europe using nuclear black mail. This is far worse than any time during the cold war and is shaping up to be worse than anything in ww2 because of the weapons that are at play. The world supply chain makes the stakes very high as much of the world will likely starve because of the war. Some pro-Russian people like to brag Russia will starve billions in Africa as a weapon and do not see the moral problem with this. If Putin is willing to starve billions what else will he do? When this is over Putin will make Hitler look like a saint. Understand we are in the first few months of what is likely to be a very long war.
Crazy talk! Just kidding, some of it is quite possible, although others are so convinced it is a big bluff by Putin/Russia.
Really all the US needed to do was stop being meddlesome with Russia's neighbor. Clearly Russia REALLY cared about what was going on in Ukraine and wouldn't let it out of its orbit. Despite knowing this we kept at it. I don't believe all the talk of Russia trying to recreate their empire. Ukraine they will keep under their thumb, already a lot of the other regions are with NATO working against Russia. Yes, it seems we need a different leader in the US, a leader that can help bring about a de-escalation. Now the best realistic outcome is Russia controls much of Ukraine, and the rest of Ukraine is truly neutral...that is the BEST outcome for the west Possible now. Plenty of other outcomes, worse for Ukraine, the west, and the world..... Of course, this is just my opinion.
Jonas!
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The real tragedy for the world is Russia does not plan to stop any time soon. This war very might make ww2 look like child's play with billions of dead people before it is all over. Putin willing to starve billions of people to win. Nuclear subs with 100meg tone torpedoes nuclear heads to sea. He will easily be beat in Ukraine but that will not likely end the war whether he wins or loses. Ukraine is on purpose not getting enough weapons to win quickly to keep Putin tied up and to drag the war on. There will be no winners as the people of Russia will have their lives ruin as much if not more than elsewhere. The only thing that is happening here is Putin has bragging rights he invaded Europe using nuclear black mail. This is far worse than any time during the cold war and is shaping up to be worse than anything in ww2 because of the weapons that are at play. The world supply chain makes the stakes very high as much of the world will likely starve because of the war. Some pro-Russian people like to brag Russia will starve billions in Africa as a weapon and do not see the moral problem with this. If Putin is willing to starve billions what else will he do? When this is over Putin will make Hitler look like a saint. Understand we are in the first few months of what is likely to be a very long war.
Crazy talk! Just kidding, some of it is quite possible, although others are so convinced it is a big bluff by Putin/Russia.
Really all the US needed to do was stop being meddlesome with Russia's neighbor. Clearly Russia REALLY cared about what was going on in Ukraine and wouldn't let it out of its orbit. Despite knowing this we kept at it. I don't believe all the talk of Russia trying to recreate their empire. Ukraine they will keep under their thumb, already a lot of the other regions are with NATO working against Russia. Yes, it seems we need a different leader in the US, a leader that can help bring about a de-escalation. Now the best realistic outcome is Russia controls much of Ukraine, and the rest of Ukraine is truly neutral...that is the BEST outcome for the west Possible now. Plenty of other outcomes, worse for Ukraine, the west, and the world..... Of course, this is just my opinion.
This war never would have happened if Trump had not been robbed of the election.
Are you and all the other fruit loops still happy you voted for dementia Joe??
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The real tragedy for the world is Russia does not plan to stop any time soon. This war very might make ww2 look like child's play with billions of dead people before it is all over. Putin willing to starve billions of people to win. Nuclear subs with 100meg tone torpedoes nuclear heads to sea. He will easily be beat in Ukraine but that will not likely end the war whether he wins or loses. Ukraine is on purpose not getting enough weapons to win quickly to keep Putin tied up and to drag the war on. There will be no winners as the people of Russia will have their lives ruin as much if not more than elsewhere. The only thing that is happening here is Putin has bragging rights he invaded Europe using nuclear black mail. This is far worse than any time during the cold war and is shaping up to be worse than anything in ww2 because of the weapons that are at play. The world supply chain makes the stakes very high as much of the world will likely starve because of the war. Some pro-Russian people like to brag Russia will starve billions in Africa as a weapon and do not see the moral problem with this. If Putin is willing to starve billions what else will he do? When this is over Putin will make Hitler look like a saint. Understand we are in the first few months of what is likely to be a very long war.
Time to wake up Tex.
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Time to wake up Tex.
I think it is a hard 'no' on the waking up thing!
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The vast majority of Ukrainians, even in Donbas, do not wish to be part of Russia. You can read about it in polls.
Are these US polls perchance? :whist11:
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I'd be interested to see the 'polls' of which the estimable Halo writes.
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How many people in the UK want to be annex by the USA? I am sure Manny and Wiz would not have a problem with this. Let us invade the UK and destroy cities get rid of your NAZIs and see how that would be received there.
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This war never would have happened if Trump had not been robbed of the election.
Are you and all the other fruit loops still happy you voted for dementia Joe??
:chuckle: Who the heck knows with Trump anymore Contrarian.
Not sure if there's any truth to the allegation that he wanted to bombed Mexico and blame it on someone else. True or otherwise, he isn't exactly denying any of it. The world is simply getting crazier as each day passes.
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This war never would have happened if Trump had not been robbed of the election.
Are you and all the other fruit loops still happy you voted for dementia Joe??
:chuckle: Who the heck knows with Trump anymore Contrarian.
Not sure if there's any truth to the allegation that he wanted to bombed Mexico and blame it on someone else. True or otherwise, he isn't exactly denying any of it. The world is simply getting crazier as each day passes.
He really should have had the courage to send in military special forces to shut down the riots in Portland, Seattle and elsewhere but because of his lack of aggressive action he lost the election and we the people are suffering through the Biden regime.
You know damn well the demonic democrats will use strong aggressive action any chance they get.
Turns out Trump wasn't so tough after all domestically, he just ran his mouth a lot. :coffeeread:
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I'd be interested to see the 'polls' of which the estimable Halo writes.
Why not do your own research and look them up yourself? Isn't that what you tell everyone else when you post something with no links?
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The PM of Moldova fears Russia will invade her country.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/moldova-says-fears-russian-invasion-111106781.html
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Yes, the vast majority of ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea did not wish to be part of Russia. But they only represented about 16% of the total population.
After 30 years of 0 investment in Crimea you'd think they werent as patriottic. I know that after being 30 years in the poorhouse i'd welcome change even if i have to accept germany as overlord
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I'd be interested to see the 'polls' of which the estimable Halo writes.
Why not do your own research and look them up yourself? Isn't that what you tell everyone else when you post something with no links?
You really are a silly man aren't you?
She made reference to something very specific. Do you have any idea of the number of 'polls' created every day to support some point or other?
If she wants to have us believe her story, then it is, at the least, polite to share the one from hundreds of possible polls to which she refers.
When I suggest to you that you upgrade your general knowledge that's an entirely different matter.
As a soi disant senior banker, I would have thought that you knew something of data collection and analysis. Perhaps your 'professional' achievements were somewhat less spectacular than you'd have us believe? Cashier? Customer service? Security guard? That'd go so e way to explain your difficulties.
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I'd be interested to see the 'polls' of which the estimable Halo writes.
Why not do your own research and look them up yourself? Isn't that what you tell everyone else when you post something with no links?
You really are a silly man aren't you?
She made reference to something very specific. Do you have any idea of the number of 'polls' created every day to support some point or other?
If she wants to have us believe her story, then it is, at the least, polite to share the one from hundreds of possible polls to which she refers.
When I suggest to you that you upgrade your general knowledge that's an entirely different matter.
As a soi disant senior banker, I would have thought that you knew something of data collection and analysis. Perhaps your 'professional' achievements were somewhat less spectacular than you'd have us believe? Cashier? Customer service? Security guard? That'd go so e way to explain your difficulties.
Andy quite obviously I've vastly over estimated your abilities and intelligence when I say you're flipping burgers at McDonald's or some other fast food outlet. This type of job is something you can only dream of.
Andy since I've returned to posting on RUA I've noticed many of your posts are so incoherent I tend to wonder if English is your native language.
A quick Google search of less than 5 minutes yields this WSJ and Reuters articles on polls. From the WSJ article:
A full 89% of the Ukrainians surveyed opposed trading conquered land for peace, and 81% opposed allowing Russia to keep the territory it annexed in 2014.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-new-poll-89-of-ukrainians-reject-ceding-land-to-reach-peace-with-russia-11656504002 subscription needed
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/op-ed-west-no-business-100013185.html
From the Reuters article:
In the poll conducted by the Kiev International Institute of Sociology between May 13-18 and released on Tuesday, 82% of respondents said they did not support territorial concessions, even if it prolonged the war and increased the threat to Ukraine's independence.
Ten percent of the 2,000 people surveyed found it acceptable for Ukraine to concede territory to achieve peace, while eight percent were undecided. According to the poll, 77% of Ukrainians living in Russian-occupied territory opposed any land concessions.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eighty-two-percent-ukrainians-oppose-territorial-concessions-poll-2022-05-24/
Are these the polls Halo was referring to? Don't know and you really don't need to know. The polls state that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians do not want to cede territory for peace. Which is what Halo said. That's the information you're seeking not the exact polls Halo was referring to.
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The real tragedy for the world is Russia does not plan to stop any time soon. This war very might make ww2 look like child's play with billions of dead people before it is all over. Putin willing to starve billions of people to win. Nuclear subs with 100meg tone torpedoes nuclear heads to sea. He will easily be beat in Ukraine but that will not likely end the war whether he wins or loses. Ukraine is on purpose not getting enough weapons to win quickly to keep Putin tied up and to drag the war on. There will be no winners as the people of Russia will have their lives ruin as much if not more than elsewhere. The only thing that is happening here is Putin has bragging rights he invaded Europe using nuclear black mail. This is far worse than any time during the cold war and is shaping up to be worse than anything in ww2 because of the weapons that are at play. The world supply chain makes the stakes very high as much of the world will likely starve because of the war. Some pro-Russian people like to brag Russia will starve billions in Africa as a weapon and do not see the moral problem with this. If Putin is willing to starve billions what else will he do? When this is over Putin will make Hitler look like a saint. Understand we are in the first few months of what is likely to be a very long war.
Crazy talk! Just kidding, some of it is quite possible, although others are so convinced it is a big bluff by Putin/Russia.
Really all the US needed to do was stop being meddlesome with Russia's neighbor. Clearly Russia REALLY cared about what was going on in Ukraine and wouldn't let it out of its orbit. Despite knowing this we kept at it. I don't believe all the talk of Russia trying to recreate their empire. Ukraine they will keep under their thumb, already a lot of the other regions are with NATO working against Russia. Yes, it seems we need a different leader in the US, a leader that can help bring about a de-escalation. Now the best realistic outcome is Russia controls much of Ukraine, and the rest of Ukraine is truly neutral...that is the BEST outcome for the west Possible now. Plenty of other outcomes, worse for Ukraine, the west, and the world..... Of course, this is just my opinion.
Jonas!
So even though Halo and polling says the overwhelming percentage of Ukrainians do not want to cede territory to Russia for peace you think it's best if Russia controls much of Ukraine and the rest of Ukraine is neutral.
Somehow you sitting at home in LA know more about what is best for Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves?
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So even though Halo and polling says the overwhelming percentage of Ukrainians do not want to cede territory to Russia for peace you think it's best if Russia controls much of Ukraine and the rest of Ukraine is neutral.
Somehow you sitting at home in LA know more about what is best for Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves?
1. I don't necessarily believe any polls nowadays. Too many are asking questions in such a way to get a particular response.
2. Who said I stated "I know more" than Ukrainians about Ukraine? My position is the west shouldn't have been involved and shouldn't be perpetuating the war now. My opinion.
3. You have a bad habit of mischaracterizing people's positions (Like mine). I'm not sure if it is lack of intelligence or you do it intentionally, I tend to think you are doing it intentionally.
Jonas!
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So even though Halo and polling says the overwhelming percentage of Ukrainians do not want to cede territory to Russia for peace you think it's best if Russia controls much of Ukraine and the rest of Ukraine is neutral.
Somehow you sitting at home in LA know more about what is best for Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves?
1. I don't necessarily believe any polls nowadays. Too many are asking questions in such a way to get a particular response.
2. Who said I stated "I know more" than Ukrainians about Ukraine? My position is the west shouldn't have been involved and shouldn't be perpetuating the war now. My opinion.
3. You have a bad habit of mischaracterizing people's positions (Like mine). I'm not sure if it is lack of intelligence or you do it intentionally, I tend to think you are doing it intentionally.
Jonas!
Jonas you're stating your opinion about something you know absolutely nothing about all the while people who do know what they're talking about or are actually living through it are saying the opposite.
How am I mischaracterizing what you say?
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Jonas you're stating your opinion about something you know absolutely nothing about all the while people who do know what they're talking about or are actually living through it are saying the opposite.
Well then nobody should have an opinion about anything much then because the reality is very few know the inner workings of the top level people with top level 'intelligence'.
I have life experience and an interest, if that isn't good enough for you, then then I guess you will still just have to live with the fact that I'm here and have stated my opinion.
I'm not necessarily in agreement with what you said in the highlighted comment either.
So even though Halo and polling says the overwhelming percentage of Ukrainians do not want to cede territory to Russia for peace you think it's best if Russia controls much of Ukraine and the rest of Ukraine is neutral.
Somehow you sitting at home in LA know more about what is best for Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves?
1. I don't necessarily believe any polls nowadays. Too many are asking questions in such a way to get a particular response.
2. Who said I stated "I know more" than Ukrainians about Ukraine? My position is the west shouldn't have been involved and shouldn't be perpetuating the war now. My opinion.
3. You have a bad habit of mischaracterizing people's positions (Like mine). I'm not sure if it is lack of intelligence or you do it intentionally, I tend to think you are doing it intentionally.
Jonas!
How am I mischaracterizing what you say?
If you don't know how you mischaracterized my earlier comments, then it must not have been intentional. If it wasn't intentional, then I am not willing to further explain it as I already did in point 2 of the prior post.
I continue to hold the position that the West has become over involved in Ukraine. Both prior to and after the invasion.
Jonas!
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Jonas you're stating your opinion about something you know absolutely nothing about all the while people who do know what they're talking about or are actually living through it are saying the opposite.
Well then nobody should have an opinion about anything much then because the reality is very few know the inner workings of the top level people with top level 'intelligence'.
I have life experience and an interest, if that isn't good enough for you, then then I guess you will still just have to live with the fact that I'm here and have stated my opinion.
I'm not necessarily in agreement with what you said in the highlighted comment either.
So even though Halo and polling says the overwhelming percentage of Ukrainians do not want to cede territory to Russia for peace you think it's best if Russia controls much of Ukraine and the rest of Ukraine is neutral.
Somehow you sitting at home in LA know more about what is best for Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves?
1. I don't necessarily believe any polls nowadays. Too many are asking questions in such a way to get a particular response.
2. Who said I stated "I know more" than Ukrainians about Ukraine? My position is the west shouldn't have been involved and shouldn't be perpetuating the war now. My opinion.
3. You have a bad habit of mischaracterizing people's positions (Like mine). I'm not sure if it is lack of intelligence or you do it intentionally, I tend to think you are doing it intentionally.
Jonas!
How am I mischaracterizing what you say?
If you don't know how you mischaracterized my earlier comments, then it must not have been intentional. If it wasn't intentional, then I am not willing to further explain it as I already did in point 2 of the prior post.
I continue to hold the position that the West has become over involved in Ukraine. Both prior to and after the invasion.
Jonas!
If the west has become over involved in Ukraine then Russia by invading Ukraine and killing innocent Ukrainian civilians by the thousands certainly has become over involved in Ukraine.
Prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine Russia was involved in Ukraine trying to pick the most pro Russian president, most pro Russian members of the Ukrainian legislature and other pro Russian Ukrainian political figures. All in a sovereign state independent of Russia.
Obviously too much much involvement in the affairs of a sovereign state by Russia.
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If the west has become over involved in Ukraine then Russia by invading Ukraine and killing innocent Ukrainian civilians by the thousands certainly has become over involved in Ukraine.
Prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine Russia was involved in Ukraine trying to pick the most pro Russian president, most pro Russian members of the Ukrainian legislature and other pro Russian Ukrainian political figures. All in a sovereign state independent of Russia.
Obviously too much much involvement in the affairs of a sovereign state by Russia.
Unfortunately for Ukraine they lie beside Russia and have a long history with them. There was no way Russia was going to allow them to start working against them. The US is across the globe and doesn't need to be propping up Ukraine. Prior to the war starting the demands weren't all the great all things considered. I continue to hold the belief that Russia would rather completely level Ukraine than permit it to fall into line with the western alliance. If true, that will be a lot of resources off the table for the world....US was aware this was a likely outcome, yet decided best outcome was being main supplier for a protracted war.
Jonas!
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Westcoast, are you from some parallel universe where the world is almost, but not quite the same?
I am finding it hard to rationalise your (mis)understanding of the world in any other way. OK, yeah, you clearly are not a thinker. But your version of the world, seems rather fictionalised.
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Unfortunately for Ukraine they lie beside Russia and have a long history with them.
Yea most of it bad for Ukraine. They been culturally destroyed and murdered by the millions over centuries by Russia. There is no way they want to be part of Russia. It is unfortunately for Russia this time Ukraine has found help.
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A different type of Ukrainian loss, loss of ability to dissent or even speak.
I don't find Jimmy Dore funny, nor do I think he is overly insightful, but I do like that he takes on subjects and questioning the narrative with a lot of gusto.
His complaints often are similar to my own. I used to post on another board, and in an act similar to Ukraine banning different views, they shadow banished me for merely respectfully stating opinions counter to the narrative. This website's elders are tolerant of both sides of the story.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylpAdDULwnw) [/url]
Jonas!
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<snip> I used to post on another board, and in an act similar to Ukraine banning different views, they shadow banished me for merely respectfully stating opinions counter to the narrative.
Jonas!
:(
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A different type of Ukrainian loss, loss of ability to dissent or even speak.
I don't find Jimmy Dore funny, nor do I think he is overly insightful, but I do like that he takes on subjects and questioning the narrative with a lot of gusto.
His complaints often are similar to my own. I used to post on another board, and in an act similar to Ukraine banning different views, they shadow banished me for merely respectfully stating opinions counter to the narrative. This website's elders are tolerant of both sides of the story.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylpAdDULwnw) [/url]
Jonas!
Of course Ukraine's corrupt. Russia's even more corrupt. I don't see why that matters in helping Ukraine fend off Russia's desire to conquer and occupy Ukraine.
If as many very knowledgeable people suspect Ukraine is Russia's first step on rebuilding the USSR then it's best to stop Russia now rather than later.
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<snip> I used to post on another board, and in an act similar to Ukraine banning different views, they shadow banished me for merely respectfully stating opinions counter to the narrative.
Jonas!
:(
Damn you Moody!
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzRDoDV8Sbo) [/url]
Jonas!
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Prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine the US was involved in Ukraine trying to pick the most pro US president, most pro US members of the Ukrainian legislature and other pro western Ukrainian political figures. All in a sovereign state independent of the US.
Obviously too much much involvement in the affairs of a sovereign state by the US.
There ya go, Westy. I fixed that for you. You're welcome. tiphat
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Prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine the US was involved in Ukraine trying to pick the most pro US president, most pro US members of the Ukrainian legislature and other pro western Ukrainian political figures. All in a sovereign state independent of the US.
Obviously too much much involvement in the affairs of a sovereign state by the US.
There ya go, Westy. I fixed that for you. You're welcome. tiphat
This whole Russia/Ukraine relationship today sounds a whole lot like the US/So. American nations not too long ago, no? The US also did a massive land grab from Mexico. We call that dandy 'spoils of war', but somehow that's OK, but not when someone else does it somewhere else. The majority of those nations, if not all, are still reeling from poverty and oppression due to our 'influence'.
We even kept at it, too in Venezuela just recently. Maduro wasn't taking it laying down though. Just as the Castro brothers did not before him.
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The PM of Moldova fears Russia will invade her country.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/moldova-says-fears-russian-invasion-111106781.html
Really? Yahoo? Really? (:)
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The PM of Moldova fears Russia will invade her country.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/moldova-says-fears-russian-invasion-111106781.html
Really? Yahoo? Really? (:)
I really hope that during Westcoast's career as a senior banker that he never had the task of assessing loan risk for his employer. His ability to discern viable information is shockingly bad.
Westcoast, of course you would not know this, but not all polls are the same. They have different questions, different universes of respondents, different error margins and different statistical techniques. I did not even bother to look at the random links you found because unless they were the polls to which Halo referred, there's no way to know what the polls to which Halo referred were actually telling us.
To give you a help. What you did was akin to presenting me with a book called The Bible and expecting it to have the same story as Lolita.
Your bank did well to cast you loose when they did. They will have seen a decrease in losses, even if it was only from your miscounting of the contents of your till.
As it is clear that you have little ability to understand what you see, please ask constructive questions to forward your understanding. Many people here are very helpful. We will help you if you're willing to learn and have a decent attitude.
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By the way, for those who cannot be bothered to read Westcoast's link - and it is a waste of time - here's the substance of what the PM said:
She told CNN that the concern is a hypothetical one for now, but it was still a "risk."
So, she was, in essence having words put into her mouth to generate an inaccurate headline for people unable to read properly.
What she is saying is something like, the sun might not rise tomorrow, there's no reason to think it will happen, but it could.
She has no reason to think it will happen, there's no evidence of it happening, but the possibility exists. That's meaningless, it tells us nothing except that she sees no current likelihood of a Russian invasion of Moldova.
Westcoast, ask for help before posting links to ridiculous and dishonest sources. We know that you're handicapped, but I doubt that you feel a need to prove it every day?
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The PM of Moldova fears Russia will invade her country.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/moldova-says-fears-russian-invasion-111106781.html
Really? Yahoo? Really? (:)
Same story lots of different outlets. I just pick the link that easiest to post.
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By the way, for those who cannot be bothered to read Westcoast's link - and it is a waste of time - here's the substance of what the PM said:
She told CNN that the concern is a hypothetical one for now, but it was still a "risk."
So, she was, in essence having words put into her mouth to generate an inaccurate headline for people unable to read properly.
What she is saying is something like, the sun might not rise tomorrow, there's no reason to think it will happen, but it could.
She has no reason to think it will happen, there's no evidence of it happening, but the possibility exists. That's meaningless, it tells us nothing except that she sees no current likelihood of a Russian invasion of Moldova.
Westcoast, ask for help before posting links to ridiculous and dishonest sources. We know that you're handicapped, but I doubt that you feel a need to prove it every day?
Let's see whose opinion is most valid? Andy, someone who works flipping burgers for a living and usually posts during his breaks or the PM of Moldova?
Andy knows nothing of the internal affairs of any European country including the UK. The PM of Moldova has all the information available from her own government and military. They have undoubtedly consulted with other European governments on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and of course information from the US.
I'd go with the PM of Moldova being far more knowledgeable than Andy. I hear Andy flunked his test on how the deep fryers work.
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Perhaps of interest - Ukrainians returning to occupied areas :8)
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Westcoast, you may dumb as a post but do you really need to go out of your way to prove it?
If you read the link you shared you'd have seen the words I quoted.
What do you think those words mean?
The PM said there was no more than a hypothetical risk. Do you understand what the words hypothetical and risk mean? I think that if you read the article that you do not know what the words mean.
As I have said before, you can almost certainly get
Adult literacy classes at your local library. If you ask constructive questions we can try to help. Please don't insult yourself any more.
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Westcoast, you may dumb as a post but do you really need to go out of your way to prove it?
If you read the link you shared you'd have seen the words I quoted.
What do you think those words mean?
The PM said there was no more than a hypothetical risk. Do you understand what the words hypothetical and risk mean? I think that if you read the article that you do not know what the words mean.
As I have said before, you can almost certainly get
Adult literacy classes at your local library. If you ask constructive questions we can try to help. Please don't insult yourself any more.
Andy, so needy of approval. Of course her assessment is hypothetical because no one can see the future. Given that Russia has an active separatist movement in the Transnistria region of Moldova that it is regularly supplying and Russia invaded Ukraine for nonsense reasons it's a reasonable theory that Russia might attempt war with Moldova in the future.
Is it possible that Russia might not invade Moldova? Yes. Ukraine could prevail in its war with Russia. That might stop or postpone a Russian invasion of Moldova. Putin could drop dead next month. That might stop or postpone a Russian invasion of Moldova. There are other scenarios that might prevent Russia from invading Moldova.
I realize these are complex issues for you to discuss since they're all well beyond your limited intellect. I hope my explanations helped.
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Statement from Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying the Ukrainian government will not rest till it drives Russia from Ukraine, all parts of Ukraine.
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What Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, Dmytro Medvedev thinks Ukraine will look like if Russia wins the war.
As Medvedev can be viewed as someone in the Russian government with some influence and knowledge of what is being planned this map can be viewed as a Russian plan to eliminate Ukraine.
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/8/d/8d3e9e1-------2.jpg)
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/27/7360535/
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Amnesty International accuses Ukraine of endangering civilians and violating humanitarian law
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/08/04/amnesty-international-accuses-ukraine-endangering-civilians/
Amnesty International has accused the Ukrainian army of endangering civilians and violating humanitarian law in its fight against Russian invaders.
The human rights NGO said Ukrainian forces in Kharkov, Donbas and Nikolayev had in some cases established bases and operated weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals.
The group said such tactics violate international humanitarian law as they turn civilians into targets for Russian strikes.
“We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas,” Agnes Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General, said.
While the group said the practices “do not in any way justify indiscriminate Russian attacks”, Dr Callamard added: “Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.”
The Russian embassy in the UK later shared a screenshot of the report on Twitter:
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Statement from Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying the Ukrainian government will not rest till it drives Russia from Ukraine, all parts of Ukraine.
I suggest Volodymyr Zelensky and his lackeys be the first ones in line on the frontlines in any attempts to retake Donbas or Crimea. :whistle:
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Statement from Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying the Ukrainian government will not rest till it drives Russia from Ukraine, all parts of Ukraine.
I suggest Volodymyr Zelensky and his lackeys be the first ones in line on the frontlines in any attempts to retake Donbas or Crimea. :whistle:
Putin and Zelensky could arm wrestle for Donbas and Crimea on the front lines of Donbas.
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Amnesty International accuses Ukraine of endangering civilians and violating humanitarian law
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/08/04/amnesty-international-accuses-ukraine-endangering-civilians/
Amnesty International has accused the Ukrainian army of endangering civilians and violating humanitarian law in its fight against Russian invaders.
The human rights NGO said Ukrainian forces in Kharkov, Donbas and Nikolayev had in some cases established bases and operated weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals.
The group said such tactics violate international humanitarian law as they turn civilians into targets for Russian strikes.
“We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas,” Agnes Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General, said.
While the group said the practices “do not in any way justify indiscriminate Russian attacks”, Dr Callamard added: “Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.”
The Russian embassy in the UK later shared a screenshot of the report on Twitter:
Rosco-
I have very little doubt both Ukraine and western media would purport Ukraine's military presence in high residential areas were a protective strategy to defend their civilian population.
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Just saw a video from Ukraine of a restrained soldier getting his penis cut off and thrown at him before he's executed. I won't mention my suspicions of which side he was on, nor which side did the cutting and head shot, because it really doesn't matter... the other side will get 'em back soon enough. But it breaks my heart guys.
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Just saw a video from Ukraine of a restrained soldier getting his penis cut off and thrown at him before he's executed. I won't mention my suspicions of which side he was on, nor which side did the cutting and head shot, because it really doesn't matter... the other side will get 'em back soon enough. But it breaks my heart guys.
The other side already did. And yes there's some unforgivable grusome shit on the video channels now
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Yes, the vast majority of ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea did not wish to be part of Russia. But they only represented about 16% of the total population.
After 30 years of 0 investment in Crimea you'd think they werent as patriottic. I know that after being 30 years in the poorhouse i'd welcome change even if i have to accept germany as overlord
There wasn't "zero" investment in Crimea. However, Crimea as self governing, and its Rada was mostly self interested.
As for polls, my polls are from a variety of sources, but the best one is the Razumkov Centre. It is fully operated by Ukrainian academics, and funded by a variety of foundations, primarily European.
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There wasn't "zero" investment in Crimea. However, Crimea as self governing, and its Rada was mostly self interested.
Roads weren't being repaired, electricic and water nets were a joke and other major problems that the gov't should have solved. But didn't for 30 years.
If you said it was the Crimean bureaucrats that were corrupt, they should've done more as obviously now its all sorted. Roads are repaired, water is flowing and electricity stable.
Oh well
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There wasn't "zero" investment in Crimea. However, Crimea as self governing, and its Rada was mostly self interested.
Roads weren't being repaired, electricic and water nets were a joke and other major problems that the gov't should have solved. But didn't for 30 years.
If you said it was the Crimean bureaucrats that were corrupt, they should've done more as obviously now its all sorted. Roads are repaired, water is flowing and electricity stable.
Oh well
last I was there (2012) things seem to be fine.
trip from airport to Kurortnoye was smooth enough. not up to American road standards, but not breaking cars and not needing a 4x4. I have been on Russian roads that required a mouth piece :)
no electrical interruptions at all at the small resort I was at, AC worked fine. bars, restaurants and other resorts there were all lit up, the whole town in fact. most establishments had wifi. I might have been on RUA a couple of times while there.
the resort, brought all drinking water in. they had a small plot of a garden with vegetables growing (very good salads straight from the garden). the little resort also had a fountain with pool, perhaps 0.5m deep by 2m dia. I would guess that the other resorts, perhaps the whole town trucked in water, but most of them had pools.
two other cities we visited were not short of electricity or water and roads were fine to and from. one of the towns had a water park, several pools , slides, fountains and a band stage shooting bubbles (1.5m deep x 20m dia,) over the crowd.
there were many vegetable stands on all roads, must have been water in some garden or other
I do not know what needed to be sorted. plenty of water, melons, grapes, wine and pizza in Kurotnoye. ice cream when I needed to cool off from the heat. the alcohol flowed the whole time (it was parachute troops day beginning of August).
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last I was there (2012) things seem to be fine.
trip from airport to Kurortnoye was smooth enough. not up to American road standards, but not breaking cars and not needing a 4x4. I have been on Russian roads that required a mouth piece :)
no electrical interruptions at all at the small resort I was at, AC worked fine. bars, restaurants and other resorts there were all lit up, the whole town in fact. most establishments had wifi. I might have been on RUA a couple of times while there.
the resort, brought all drinking water in. they had a small plot of a garden with vegetables growing (very good salads straight from the garden). the little resort also had a fountain with pool, perhaps 0.5m deep by 2m dia. I would guess that the other resorts, perhaps the whole town trucked in water, but most of them had pools.
two other cities we visited were not short of electricity or water and roads were fine to and from. one of the towns had a water park, several pools , slides, fountains and a band stage shooting bubbles (1.5m deep x 20m dia,) over the crowd.
there were many vegetable stands on all roads, must have been water in some garden or other
I do not know what needed to be sorted. plenty of water, melons, grapes, wine and pizza in Kurotnoye. ice cream when I needed to cool off from the heat. the alcohol flowed the whole time (it was parachute troops day beginning of August).
Resort does not mean how the locals live.
I usually stay in my MIL's flat and she had a bathtub full of water (2010), to put water from when another outage started. She downsized to 20L bottles shortly after Russia's takeover (2015) and now she trusts the water from the faucet.
Same with roads/electricity. The main roads were good enough but it was a bumpy ride none the less.
If you go there today (well in 2021, when i was there) there's a highway with silk-smooth tarmac.
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Yup, it is far from uncommon for resort areas to be favoured over areas where the area is not 'on display'.
There are strong incentives to do so.
It happens in the UK, even within towns and cities that are known best as tourist destinations.
A couple that spring to mind might be Blackpool and Brighton. One in the North of England and the other in the south.
I know the former better than the latter. Blackpool is hardly a mecca for aesthetes and elites, but even so, once one goes a few streets back from the promenade to places that tourists rarely visit, there's a world of difference. The council obviously prioritises the tourist areas as do the businesses that profit from tourists.
A place like Crimea would a somewhat different scale, but the principle remains the same.
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Yup, it is far from uncommon for resort areas to be favoured over areas where the area is not 'on display'.
There are strong incentives to do so.
It happens in the UK, even within towns and cities that are known best as tourist destinations.
A couple that spring to mind might be Blackpool and Brighton. One in the North of England and the other in the south.
I know the former better than the latter. Blackpool is hardly a mecca for aesthetes and elites, but even so, once one goes a few streets back from the promenade to places that tourists rarely visit, there's a world of difference. The council obviously prioritises the tourist areas as do the businesses that profit from tourists.
A place like Crimea would a somewhat different scale, but the principle remains the same.
Evpatoria (Crimea) is a fairly touristy place, all properties, bars, restaurants close to the sea are fairly well off with utilities, but try to visit a public restroom on the street and you will be greeted with a hole in the ground going straight into the city sewer without any stench-avoidance-methods. (same as the old france highway toilets but iwthout the porcelain tabs to put your feet). Luckily the visit so far is limited to just once for me, as restaurant-toilets (guests only) or hotel-toilets are much better.
Saki on the other hand, is a 'living/working' town with little tourism going on, half of my inlaws live there. There's just 1 large area of beach clubs / tourism houses. But other than that the city is in decay. (Until Russia showed up).
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Blackpool is not quite on the same level. My rellos who live there all have decent sanitation. But streetside urination is not confined just to the back streets.
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Very interesting on the Ukrainian situation :8)
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So,
China, India, Mongolia and Belarus announced military exercises in cooperation with the RU-Military as well.
What can go wrong.
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So,
China, India, Mongolia and Belarus announced military exercises in cooperation with the RU-Military as well.
What can go wrong.
Happens regularly. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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Russian troops trained with nato before also
🤷♂️
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English Subtitles/Translation
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So,
China, India, Mongolia and Belarus announced military exercises in cooperation with the RU-Military as well.
What can go wrong.
Happens regularly. Nothing to see here. Move along.
I saw this more as a propaganda-event. Look at how much weapons & people Russia is still holding back they are going on an exercise with the eastern neighbours.
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English Subtitles/Translation
It is an interesting video, thank you for posting.
Yes some is for western propaganda, but it is mostly addressed to Ukraine on there National Day. V. Zelensky is defending the nation of Ukraine, who he was elected to defend. So far with western aid he has not done a bad job.
What Russia thought would be a stroll in the park has become Afghanistan #2 for Russia.
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This Ukrainian helicopter crash would seem to be a significant development, given the high profile of the victims.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64315594
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So,
China, India, Mongolia and Belarus announced military exercises in cooperation with the RU-Military as well.
What can go wrong.
Happens regularly. Nothing to see here. Move along.
I saw this more as a propaganda-event. Look at how much weapons & people Russia is still holding back they are going on an exercise with the eastern neighbours.
Thats exactly what it is.
What did they raise the age of mobilization to now?
Obviously ukraine is in a similar position regarding troop loses, but there is a differenve between defending and being sent to another country in acceptence and motivation.
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We always hear about the huge number of Russian losses, often over reported, in the western media whilst the Ukrainian ones are very much downplayed. This leads to a false perception of what's actually happening on the ground and in turn, encourages some posters here on RUA to write/repeat fake news about the conflict.
I found this very odd and rather than assuming that our media is simply bias and complicit, I decided to do a little online investigation. Hopefully it helps others on the board, understand why this war seems like one way traffic yet Russia are still very much there.
Ukrainian military casualties are indeed underreported in Western media and there are several reasons for this.
Every journalist working in Ukraine has to be accredited by the Ukrainian authorities (the Ministry of Defense) and this means that they have to adhere to some rules. Reporting about Ukrainian military casualties is only permitted in individual cases, for example, when a notable person (a university professor who joined the army, a higher ranking officer) died. What you can’t do is publish the numbers of Ukrainian casualties (other than the ones that are officially announced), otherwise, they will take your accreditation.
Filming or photographing Ukrainian military equipment, destroyed or not, requires a special permission. In the case of a destroyed Ukrainian tank, for example, it isn’t likely that the Ukrainian army grants you this permission.
Most journalists work far away from the frontlines and are unable to control what kind of images and information arrive from the combat zones. This is mainly under the control of the authorities. Almost everything that could somehow undermine the morale, is filtered out.
Last but not least, most journalists also exhibit some sort of self-censorship. They are sympathetic to the cause and voluntarily refrain from reporting anything that might harm the (Ukrainian) war effort.
So there you have have it, time to start considering how your news is filtered down and also, what the reality really is in Ukraine.
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Ukrainians lost ...,....
308 planes, 214 helicopters, 2950 drones, 6580 tanks and armored vehicles, 7560 artillery pieces, 499 anti-aircraft systems, 172,000 dead, 252,000 wounded.
18100 taken prisoner,
number of soldiers on the ground 785,000
completed mobilization to fill the military units in the number of 100,000 soldiers.
sent a request to the EU for the delivery of all conscripts who deserted/male leavers over 18-70
in order to fill the necessary new military units...
252 dead NATO soldiers (officers, instructors, operatives, GB, USA,)
2517dead NATO soldiers (Poland, Germany, Lithuania...) ..,.,.
5890 dead mercenaries
source Israeli intelligence service
date 25.01.23
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Ukrainians lost ...,....
308 planes, 214 helicopters, 2950 drones, 6580 tanks and armored vehicles, 7560 artillery pieces, 499 anti-aircraft systems, 172,000 dead, 252,000 wounded.
18100 taken prisoner,
number of soldiers on the ground 785,000
completed mobilization to fill the military units in the number of 100,000 soldiers.
sent a request to the EU for the delivery of all conscripts who deserted/male leavers over 18-70
in order to fill the necessary new military units...
252 dead NATO soldiers (officers, instructors, operatives, GB, USA,)
2517dead NATO soldiers (Poland, Germany, Lithuania...) ..,.,.
5890 dead mercenaries
source Israeli intelligence service
date 25.01.23
Even if these stats were somehow inaccurate, I'd expect Ukraine to have suffered some seriously scary losses. Russia have been shelling, bombing and throwing missiles at that place non stop for the best part of a year and I find it odd that Ukraine claims only to have lost 14,000 soldiers. It's even more odd that some people believe that and think Russia are on the run.
Russia will have dropped a seriously scary amounts of ordinance on Ukraine and there will be much more casualties to come as we pump the place full of western weapons.
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Key Take Aways:
115,000 Ukrainian Soldiers KILLED
35,000 Ukrainian Soldiers Missing presumed Blown to Pieces by Rockets and Artillery and inadequate DNA lab techs to sort out the body parts and mushed DNA likely multiple young UA soldiers...
400,000 Total Dead and Severely Wounded Ukrainian Young Men
Ukraine down to 18 to 21 Million people inside of Ukraine the rest EU refugees and EU Workers/Sex Workers.
In contrast to Russian Dead and Wounded 1/10th far less than 100,000 Total Max Dead (25K Dead 45K Wounded).
Russian shooting 60,000 Shells and Rockets per day with Satellite and Drone ISR Accuracy
Ukraine countering with less than 6,500 Shells per day.
Russians NOW flying Low 300 Ft/100 Meters Close air Support across the front lines with impunity now meaning Ukraine has shot its wad and has NO Air Defense Missiles left.
USA and EU/NATO scrambling to supply last gasp supplies before our Rainbow Coalition LGBTQ Friendly Militaries PEE Their Depends Panties.
Hungary PISSED at Ukraine SBU Secret Police for Kidnapping Hungarian Ukrainians in the Carpathian region on Hungary's border along with 14 Year Old Ukrainian School Boys and 70 Year Old Ukrainian Grandpas into the Meat Grinders on the Ukrainian Front lines.
Likely to be tremendous retributions against the Zalenski 10% Percent-ski Regime and SBU Secret Police NAZIs for Murdering Hungary and Ukrainian Boys and Old Men by throwing them into the Front Lines Stalingrad Style with NO Training or Combat leadership. COLD-BLOODED MURDER OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE! Pure anti-Christian EVIL (Soros/Zalenski/Claus Schwabian Christian Haters.)
Dr. Ph.D. Col Douglas MacGregor DEBUNKS the NATO Propaganda and Calls Ballz and Strikes (US Baseball Terms) accurately... Also if Russia Backed into a Corner and considers its survival in jeopardy as a new existential threat then this goes THERMO NUCLEAR in London, NYC, Washington DC, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, and Bucharest... Perhaps Budapest and Rome and Madrid and Athens were spared so far as they have resisted joining the rest of the NATO War Hawks and the London CoL Rothschilds' determination to capture the Bank of Russia Central bank into their Collection of secretly controlled Central Banks Globally on Behalf of the BRITISH CROWN! (Note since the USA Federal Reserve is owned by CoL Banking Families in the USA the British Crown Colony of the CoL City of London controls the USA as an Economic Colony of the British Crown which is why the USA has NO Cradle to Grave social safety nets like the UK and Mainland Europa.
Ask yourselves why Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak fighting against any NATO Peace Talks???
EU and NATO are PHOOKED... USA not too far behind.
[attachimg=1]
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Russia continues to strike Kherson without mercy and hits a Hospital, wounding 6 and killing 3.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion-tanks-latest-news-b2271922.html
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Russia continues to strike Kherson without mercy and hits a Hospital, wounding 6 and killing 3.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion-tanks-latest-news-b2271922.html
Wasn't Kherson on the Dnieper EVACUATED and any Hospitals or Schools still standing seized by the AFU Armed Forces of Ukraine as a good place to Bivouac (Sleep) and pretense for claims of War Crimes by Russia for "deliberately" hitting hospitals, etc...
Ukraine Propaganda now breaking down from Zalenski the Jewish 10% Percent-skis' WAR against Ukraine Christians of Russian Ethnicity... by his own inner circle of Orthodox Christians with contempt for his Soros-inspired and funded WAR ON CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX SOULS.
Tel Aviv is now about the only Safe Bug Out location for the Zalenski Christian Killing WAR CRIMINAL.
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Russia continues to strike Kherson without mercy and hits a Hospital, wounding 6 and killing 3.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion-tanks-latest-news-b2271922.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/moscow-says-14-killed-ukraine-strikes-hospital-russia-verge-taking-bakhmut
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With those kind of stats, I was about to suggest that Ukraine will be ripe for foreign blokes looking to pick up a hot-kova. However, most of the kova's are already in Europe dancing away in night clubs and getting banged by the locals, whilst their men get pushed through the meat grinder, in the cold wastelands in the east.
It's a grim time for Ukrainians but I'm sure Zelensky will profit from his role.
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Russia continues to strike Kherson without mercy and hits a Hospital, wounding 6 and killing 3.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-putin-invasion-tanks-latest-news-b2271922.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/moscow-says-14-killed-ukraine-strikes-hospital-russia-verge-taking-bakhmut
Ukrainian lands belong to Ukrainian citizens.
Russian thieves and murderers pack up and leave, and stop making false allegations! Get out!
Go home and eliminate the real Nazi, Putler!!
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No one's opinions amount to shite once the Nukes Start Popping off around the UK, EU and USA...
[attachimg=1]
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Key Take Aways:
115,000 Ukrainian Soldiers KILLED
35,000 Ukrainian Soldiers Missing presumed Blown to Pieces by Rockets and Artillery and inadequate DNA lab techs to sort out the body parts and mushed DNA likely multiple young UA soldiers...
400,000 Total Dead and Severely Wounded Ukrainian Young Men
Ukraine down to 18 to 21 Million people inside of Ukraine the rest EU refugees and EU Workers/Sex Workers.
In contrast to Russian Dead and Wounded 1/10th far less than 100,000 Total Max Dead (25K Dead 45K Wounded).
Russian shooting 60,000 Shells and Rockets per day with Satellite and Drone ISR Accuracy
Ukraine countering with less than 6,500 Shells per day.
Russians NOW flying Low 300 Ft/100 Meters Close air Support across the front lines with impunity now meaning Ukraine has shot its wad and has NO Air Defense Missiles left.
USA and EU/NATO scrambling to supply last gasp supplies before our Rainbow Coalition LGBTQ Friendly Militaries PEE Their Depends Panties.
Hungary PISSED at Ukraine SBU Secret Police for Kidnapping Hungarian Ukrainians in the Carpathian region on Hungary's border along with 14 Year Old Ukrainian School Boys and 70 Year Old Ukrainian Grandpas into the Meat Grinders on the Ukrainian Front lines.
Likely to be tremendous retributions against the Zalenski 10% Percent-ski Regime and SBU Secret Police NAZIs for Murdering Hungary and Ukrainian Boys and Old Men by throwing them into the Front Lines Stalingrad Style with NO Training or Combat leadership. COLD-BLOODED MURDER OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE! Pure anti-Christian EVIL (Soros/Zalenski/Claus Schwabian Christian Haters.)
Dr. Ph.D. Col Douglas MacGregor DEBUNKS the NATO Propaganda and Calls Ballz and Strikes (US Baseball Terms) accurately... Also if Russia Backed into a Corner and considers its survival in jeopardy as a new existential threat then this goes THERMO NUCLEAR in London, NYC, Washington DC, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, and Bucharest... Perhaps Budapest and Rome and Madrid and Athens were spared so far as they have resisted joining the rest of the NATO War Hawks and the London CoL Rothschilds' determination to capture the Bank of Russia Central bank into their Collection of secretly controlled Central Banks Globally on Behalf of the BRITISH CROWN! (Note since the USA Federal Reserve is owned by CoL Banking Families in the USA the British Crown Colony of the CoL City of London controls the USA as an Economic Colony of the British Crown which is why the USA has NO Cradle to Grave social safety nets like the UK and Mainland Europa.
Ask yourselves why Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak fighting against any NATO Peace Talks???
EU and NATO are PHOOKED... USA not too far behind.
Gee you could not pick a more fake source. None of that is true but I really doubt you care. It sounds good to you because it is what you want to hear.
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No one's opinions amount to shite once the Nukes Start Popping off around the UK, EU and USA...
(Attachment Link)
Russia has self-preservation interests, all this talk about Nuclear weapons is just that, a bunch of hot air.
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Gee you could not pick a more fake source. None of that is true but I really doubt you care. It sounds good to you because it is what you want to hear.
This could literally be anyone else, talking about you.
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I heard about this quote by Ukrainian soldiers and I finally found it! Enjoy. Ukrainian soldiers criticize Zelensky.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/66Hr-FNN45Q
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This could literally be anyone else, talking about you.
You say that because you do not like me. I question your logic. You claim to be neutral then you are so pro Russia. At least be honest.
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This could literally be anyone else, talking about you.
You say that because you do not like me. I question your logic. You claim to be neutral then you are so pro Russia. At least be honest.
I don't know you Tex and I'm sure you're a lovely guy but come on.....you simply don't do logic.
However, you do like to post one dimensional, bias, pro Ukrainian/anti Russia opinews and this deserves to be challenged. To keep a balance, I like to counter post your info with information that paints Ukraine in a less than innocent light, so we can at least keep some reality in the threads.
If it were left to you, Russia would be eating children whilst they're slaughtered in their millions and their economy plunging whilst Ukraine are marching onto Moscow having only suffered 2 deaths, one due to natural causes and the other from a poor bloke who choked on his hot borch.
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It actually doesn't look good for Ukraine, according to this article. Russia is preparing a new offensive in the Donbas, with 200,000 new recruits. Ukraine appears not to have enough soldiers or ammunition, again according to this article, to stem the tide of what's coming.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/outnumbered-worn-ukrainians-east-brace-192953301.html
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It never looked good for Ukraine, Contrarian. Nothing has changed despite you and Tex's Yahoo filling daily column inches with how Ukraine is "winning". They are only "winning" on Twitter and in the western media.
Has anyone mentioned yet that Ukraine is now conscripting 16-year-olds with press gangs to feed into the US -v- Russia meat grinder? And trying to recall those who fled abroad at the start, which I suspect will be less successful.
Of course, they are running out of men, why NATO is sending so many "volunteers" (soldiers who sign something to say they have left their home army and are signing up for Ukraine of their own will - how NATO send troops with deniability).
Not to worry, this can't last much longer, and the US is already stoking the public for a proxy war with China using Australia as the puppet like they are doing with Ukraine now. Get your Taiwan flags and avatars at the ready and start scanning the skies for um, weather balloons.
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And that indeed is the reality.
Poor Ukrainians are being slaughtered in ridiculously high numbers and the government and their western media partners play it all down. The west can pump in as much ammo as it wants but if you've got a declining number of troops who are worn down after a year of fighting, its going to be hell for them when 100'000's of fresh Russian soldiers join the fray armed to the teeth.
Tex has been telling us how it's Russia who's losing and how they've run out of weapons etc but the reality is very different. More troops, more tanks, more aircraft, more artillery, more shells, more ammunition and possibly a more organised assault.
We should be doing our best to help broker a peace deal, even if it isn't what Zelensky wants, just to save the lives of everyone involved. I fear that Ukraine will ultimately lose to Russia and the lives given trying to fight Zelensky's proxy war will have been in vain.
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I fear that Ukraine will ultimately lose to Russia and the lives given trying to fight Zelensky's proxy war will have been in vain.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/i-agree-with-532121e56f.jpg)
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Yea, just like Afghanistan's lost to Russia which led to the demised of the USSR. Now Ukraine will lead to demise of Russia. Sad, I really do not hate Russia only its leadership. This morning Putin's speech talks about a new type of Naziism. Too bad he is it. He is the Nazi that needs to be done away with.
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Yea, just like Afghanistan's lost to Russia which led to the demised of the USSR. Now Ukraine will lead to demise of Russia. Sad, I really do not hate Russia only its leadership. This morning Putin's speech talks about a new type of Naziism. Too bad he is it. He is the Nazi that needs to be done away with.
Time will tell as they say Tex but my money would be on Russia seeing this through because losing would be a threat to their existence and then go on to survive the sanctions that Europe and the US throw at them. The rest of the world will continue to trade and slowly so will much of the west, over time.
The people of Russia generally don't feel the same way as you do, about their leader. Sadly I feel that its Ukraine you need to be concerned about.
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Yea, just like Afghanistan's lost to Russia which led to the demised of the USSR. Now Ukraine will lead to demise of Russia. Sad, I really do not hate Russia only its leadership. This morning Putin's speech talks about a new type of Naziism. Too bad he is it. He is the Nazi that needs to be done away with.
Time will tell as they say Tex but my money would be on Russia seeing this through because losing would be a threat to their existence and then go on to survive the sanctions that Europe and the US throw at them. The rest of the world will continue to trade and slowly so will much of the west, over time.
The people of Russia generally don't feel the same way as you do, about their leader. Sadly I feel that its Ukraine you need to be concerned about.
The war is a threat to Russia existence. If they would never start it, they would not have this threat. Now the threat exists even if they win on the ground in Ukraine. USSR did not survive Afghanistan though it took a couple of years afterwards. Russia will never be what it was before the war and likely far apart in the not too many years to come after the war no matter the outcome.
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Yea, just like Afghanistan's lost to Russia which led to the demised of the USSR. Now Ukraine will lead to demise of Russia. Sad, I really do not hate Russia only its leadership. This morning Putin's speech talks about a new type of Naziism. Too bad he is it. He is the Nazi that needs to be done away with.
Time will tell as they say Tex but my money would be on Russia seeing this through because losing would be a threat to their existence and then go on to survive the sanctions that Europe and the US throw at them. The rest of the world will continue to trade and slowly so will much of the west, over time.
The people of Russia generally don't feel the same way as you do, about their leader. Sadly I feel that its Ukraine you need to be concerned about.
The war is a threat to Russia existence. If they would never start it, they would not have this threat. Now the threat exists even if they win on the ground in Ukraine. USSR did not survive Afghanistan though it took a couple of years afterwards. Russia will never be what it was before the war and likely far apart in the not too many years to come after the war no matter the outcome.
My guess some do not understand the ‘Great Game’. The actors and settings change but the goals and confrontation do not.
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Yea, just like Afghanistan's lost to Russia which led to the demised of the USSR. Now Ukraine will lead to demise of Russia. Sad, I really do not hate Russia only its leadership. This morning Putin's speech talks about a new type of Naziism. Too bad he is it. He is the Nazi that needs to be done away with.
Time will tell as they say Tex but my money would be on Russia seeing this through because losing would be a threat to their existence and then go on to survive the sanctions that Europe and the US throw at them. The rest of the world will continue to trade and slowly so will much of the west, over time.
The people of Russia generally don't feel the same way as you do, about their leader. Sadly I feel that its Ukraine you need to be concerned about.
The war is a threat to Russia existence. If they would never start it, they would not have this threat. Now the threat exists even if they win on the ground in Ukraine. USSR did not survive Afghanistan though it took a couple of years afterwards. Russia will never be what it was before the war and likely far apart in the not too many years to come after the war no matter the outcome.
I think you're wrong and I'll tell you why.
With the EU/NATO creeping east and finally arriving at Russia's back door, Ukraine is the final straw as far as Putin is concerned. He had two choices as far as I could see;
1) Do nothing, let the US install their puppet (as has happened) and watch their slavic brother turn into a staging post for American troops, media and propaganda. Next on the agenda will be Russia itself and the agenda will be to remove Putin and neutralise Russia.
2) Fight back against the eastern creep and stop the rot (so to speak). Russia has voiced it concerns for a long time but this hasn't slowed NATO or the US down. Sadly this choice has led to death, destruction and global chaos which has given the Goldman Sachs and Blackrocks of the world, a semi.
I suspect you don't see the bigger picture Tex and it's easier for you to just call Putin a Nazi who wants to take over the world. Everyone else is innocent.
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With the EU/NATO creeping east and finally arriving at Russia's back door, Ukraine is the final straw as far as Putin is concerned.
As far as Putin is concerned, correct. The Russian people never had anything to fear from sovereign nations joining the EU, or NATO.
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The comedian is due to arrive in the UK later today and meet up with Sunak, presumably to discuss lies and corruption.....only joking. Looks like the begging bowl is back out and with the devastating earth quake in Turkey & Syria hitting the headlines and diverting attention, Zelensky needs his profile back.
For those of you who don't believe that this is a West v Russia situation, you may want to ask yourself why the massively wealthy Arab nations haven't been tipping cash and weapons into Ukraine.......ah yea I forgot, it was the west who played a leading role in starting the conflict for their own interests so it's the west who need to pay the piper.
Judging by recent social media comments on the various news outlets, the Brits are sick of handing out tax payers cash to Zelensky. Half the country are faced with heating or eating, we can't fill in a pot hole in the road and interest rates continue to rise. I'm guessing another vault load of cash will be getting sent to Turkey/Syria soon.
It doesn't look good for Ukraine and I always suspected that the western tax payer will run out of money and patience when it comes to Ukraine. No more flag waving, Facebook filters being switched to quake victim virtue signalling, nobody wants refugees and a resistance to the gravy train building.
It was always going to happen and perhaps Zelensky will need to use his own millions to fund the war instead.....again only joking, never gonna happen!
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With the EU/NATO creeping east and finally arriving at Russia's back door, Ukraine is the final straw as far as Putin is concerned.
As far as Putin is concerned, correct. The Russian people never had anything to fear from sovereign nations joining the EU, or NATO.
Why, because we could have overthrown their nasty regime and privatised their country for them? They possibly didn't but why did they need to push Putin to the breaking point. I've said it from day one but this war could have been avoided had we just backed off a bit.
It would have been better for everyone. If the Russian people want to come to us then fine but we shouldn't be playing with fire.
p.s. There's an irony in saying "sovereign nations joining the EU" :ROFL:
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Why, because we could have overthrown their nasty regime and privatised their country for them? They possibly didn't but why did they need to push Putin to the breaking point. I've said it from day one but this war could have been avoided had we just backed off a bit.
It would have been better for everyone. If the Russian people want to come to us then fine but we shouldn't be playing with fire.
p.s. There's an irony in saying "sovereign nations joining the EU" :ROFL:
'Could have', and 'would have' are pretty weak excuses, IMO. And how would the EU or NATO perform this act of privatizing Russia? Invade? What do you mean by 'backing off a bit'? Not support Ukraine with their efforts toward democracy and ignore the will of their people?
Crimea wasn't enough? Semi-control over a large part of Donbas wasn't enough? Putin was better off doing nothing last year if he wanted a buffer for Russia. Under the conditions back then, EU and NATO membership would have remained stalled, and life would have gone on with a few sanctions. Let's say Russia can take Ukraine. What then? You say Russia didn't want the EU and NATO at their doorstep? Wouldn't that be the de facto result?
Step by step, Putin's actions alone put us where we are today. He is simply trying to regain control over a sovereign country that no longer wants to be Russia's puppet. He had Ukraine and lost it. Maybe he should have worked towards building a more trusting relationship with Ukraine and her people, instead of continuing efforts to coerce and subvert.
No irony is represented with countries joining the EU or any other organization. They can ask to join or leave as they deem fit, maintaining all principles of sovereignty. Does Russia propose a better choice?
Yes, this is my opinion.
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'Could have', and 'would have' are pretty weak excuses, IMO. And how would the EU or NATO perform this act of privatizing Russia? Invade?
Oh come on BC, is this really your first day on the internet. I'd hazard a wild guess that the usual tried and tested blue print for regime change would work just fine. You know, create division through propaganda and supporting the opposition, start civil war and conflict, join the fray as peace keepers supporting innocent people wanting democracy before plundering the place.....etc.
Do you really need me to remind you of how this all works?
What do you mean by 'backing off a bit'? Not support Ukraine with their efforts toward democracy and ignore the will of their people?
OK now you're trolling me.
If you really don't understand what I'm suggesting or you really think that Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukrainians one day woke up and decided they wanted 'western democracy', then I'd suggest we're sitting at opposing ends of the dinner table and shouting at each other won't work.
Carry on living out that version in ignorance if you so wish. As a side, why should we push western values and our version of democracy onto countries on the other side of the planet? Is it right for us to create conflict, chaos and install puppet governments so that liberal democracy, private equity, wokeism and subservience is applied?
It's not exactly been working successfully outside of Western Europe and North America so far, so why do it in continents where our "competitors" have regional influence, unless you simply want war?
Crimea wasn't enough? Semi-control over a large part of Donbas wasn't enough? Putin was better off doing nothing last year if he wanted a buffer for Russia.
Enough of what BC? Are you one of those silly people who thinks it's a Russian led land grab?
Putin sat there and watched the US/EU cause havoc in Ukraine, set up regime change and violent civil war in the east for almost a decade. It directly involves Russia and as our media call them - pro Russian separatists, otherwise known as Ukrainians.
If the US had let Zelensky give Crimea and the disputed eastern territories independence then I suspect things would have simmered down. But I also suspect these places would then vote to join Russia and it would be seen as a big loss, so it was never on the table.
Question for you - if Scotland voted for independence but the UK wouldn't allow them to leave, and then the Scottish government started shelling pro unionists in the south of the country, who would have the most right to get involved?
The UK government or the US? Answer, it's bugger all to do with the US just like Ukraine and all the other places they've meddled with. Putin certainly isn't innocent in any of this and what Russia has done is truly horrific but we took the war them to them, not the other way around.
Step by step, Putin's actions alone put us where we are today. He is simply trying to regain control over a sovereign country that no longer wants to be Russia's puppet.
Whoosh right over your head.
A year ago Russia didn't want or need to invade Ukraine. Putin got involved because of the mess the West had created. And this sovereign country that no longer wants to be Russia's puppet, that you talk about, doesn't exist.
Do you really believe that Crimea or Donbas wants to be Ukrainian? It's vast generalisations like this regarding Ukraine, that makes it a very messy discussion.
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Why, because we could have overthrown their nasty regime and privatised their country for them? They possibly didn't but why did they need to push Putin to the breaking point. I've said it from day one but this war could have been avoided had we just backed off a bit.
It would have been better for everyone. If the Russian people want to come to us then fine but we shouldn't be playing with fire.
p.s. There's an irony in saying "sovereign nations joining the EU" :ROFL:
'Could have', and 'would have' are pretty weak excuses, IMO. And how would the EU or NATO perform this act of privatizing Russia? Invade? What do you mean by 'backing off a bit'? Not support Ukraine with their efforts toward democracy and ignore the will of their people?
Crimea wasn't enough? Semi-control over a large part of Donbas wasn't enough? Putin was better off doing nothing last year if he wanted a buffer for Russia. Under the conditions back then, EU and NATO membership would have remained stalled, and life would have gone on with a few sanctions. Let's say Russia can take Ukraine. What then? You say Russia didn't want the EU and NATO at their doorstep? Wouldn't that be the de facto result?
Step by step, Putin's actions alone put us where we are today. He is simply trying to regain control over a sovereign country that no longer wants to be Russia's puppet. He had Ukraine and lost it. Maybe he should have worked towards building a more trusting relationship with Ukraine and her people, instead of continuing efforts to coerce and subvert.
No irony is represented with countries joining the EU or any other organization. They can ask to join or leave as they deem fit, maintaining all principles of sovereignty. Does Russia propose a better choice?
Yes, this is my opinion.
What a load of bunk.. They can ask to join or leave as they deem fit Once your in there is little chance of leaving especially if your one of the poorer countries who have sold their Souls to the EU .. If they did try to leave they would be bullied, blackmailed and all sorts of things ...
Anyway Im getting really bored of this place now.. same people saying the same old bullshit over and over again...even more so the same people who are totally clueless about anything other than some gossip from Igor or Tatiana on their once in a decade trip to Russia or Ukraine..You got Tex a total clueless retard saying the same stuff over and over again... Christ 12 months of it is enough to do your head in..
Over and out.. until its over..
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Anyway Im getting really bored of this place now.. same people saying the same old bullshit over and over again...even more so the same people who are totally clueless about anything other than some gossip from Igor or Tatiana on their once in a decade trip to Russia or Ukraine..You got Tex a total clueless retard saying the same stuff over and over again... Christ 12 months of it is enough to do your head in..
Over and out.. until its over..
Then you have clueless retard Steve boy saying the same stuff over and over again often with Vugar insults. Get ready as this war likely to last more than another 12 months.
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The comedian is due to arrive in the UK later today
The media coverage of Zelensky in the UK was nothing short of hero worship. They might as well have laid palm leaves on the road to parliament, which he addressed (!). He was then whisked off to meet King Charles (who is not supposed to intervene in politics), in his manky green sweater as usual, scruffy bugger couldn't even find a suit? I saw a media video of a load of MPs from both sides oinking and clapping like demented performing seals at him. It was utterly pathetic.
Boris still thinks he is PM, poncing about with Z now howling for our planes to be sent there.
It's a psychological operation from start to finish is all this. It's amazing to watch all the sheeples being hoodwinked yet again. But as Rosco noted, the social media comments are now starting to show many people are waking up to this. But the politicians don't care. Zelensky is one step above Jesus and Putin is a Bond villain. That's the message on the telescreens 24/7.
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If corrupt Ukraine and Zalenski 10%Percentski manages to beg enough western aid to last until the springtime and somehow gets NATO to put Boots, Tanks and Missiles on the Ground and 4th and 5th Generation Fighters in the Air -and- if Russia somehow manages to loose the "Ground War" then the Berlin and London perhaps Brussels and Warsaw contingents of NATO will see a not too surprising wake up call... and it will be lights out for both Ukraine and NATO...
Russians do know how to "Mind Phook" the west:
[attachimg=1]
Only person with enough sense to negotiate a stop to this is:
[attachimg=2]
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An interesting article from the BBC where they are now starting to detail the realities in Ukraine but still littered with the usual bias bits. It discusses the long and bloody battle for Bakmut.
Russians are slowly gaining ground and the Ukrainians are losing men and running out of ammo. If Russia takes control of the town then it opens the door for offensives on other large cities.
Anyway, I thought this part was interesting given that some posters here like to talk about "Ukraine wanting to be with the West". I've often pointed out that many Ukrainians would prefer to be Russian, something the western press don't like to talk about.
From the BBC;
"Around 5,000 civilians remain in Bakhmut without running water or power - many are elderly and poor. "Some are pro-Moscow. They are waiting for the Russians," a Ukrainian colleague mutters darkly."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64596363
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Rosco,
What was the pre-war population of Bakhmut? Where did the rest go?
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Rosco,
What was the pre-war population of Bakhmut? Where did the rest go?
BC, do people tend to stay in a town that's getting hammered and is full of soldiers fighting, irrespective of who they support? Again, you try to swerve or dilute the clear point being made.
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If Russia is able to be so independent, why during the 1990s why was Russia was so poor?
Rosco,
What was the pre-war population of Bakhmut? Where did the rest go?
BC, do people tend to stay in a town that's getting hammered and is full of soldiers fighting, irrespective of who they support? Again, you try to swerve or dilute the clear point being made.
The population prewar was about 75,000 the majority identified as Ukrainian speaking Russian.
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Rosco,
What was the pre-war population of Bakhmut? Where did the rest go?
BC, do people tend to stay in a town that's getting hammered and is full of soldiers fighting, irrespective of who they support? Again, you try to swerve or dilute the clear point being made.
It was just a question, Rosco, not a statement.
But in any case, I would assume those that stay are those that, for whatever reason, cannot leave or are convinced they are being 'saved' by invading forces and even support them. It would be interesting to know which direction those that left gravitated towards. In the case of Bakhmut, I assume no Russian buses were waiting, as was the case in other cities. I did read that Ukraine provided evacuation to those that desired to leave. Did I see a pre-war population of around 75k?
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Rosco,
What was the pre-war population of Bakhmut? Where did the rest go?
BC, do people tend to stay in a town that's getting hammered and is full of soldiers fighting, irrespective of who they support? Again, you try to swerve or dilute the clear point being made.
It was just a question, Rosco, not a statement.
But in any case, I would assume those that stay are those that, for whatever reason, cannot leave or are convinced they are being 'saved' by invading forces and even support them. It would be interesting to know which direction those that left gravitated towards. In the case of Bakhmut, I assume no Russian buses were waiting, as was the case in other cities. I did read that Ukraine provided evacuation to those that desired to leave. Did I see a pre-war population of around 75k?
Dont worry, I fully understood the point you were trying to make i.e pre war population 75k with 5k left hoping to be saved by Russia or something.
Personally I wouldn't care which direction I'd leave but so long as I could get my family to safety. Many parts of Ukraine have seen pockets of bombardment but sadly for Bakhmut, it's the current front line with soldiers fighting building to building. I dont think the pre or post population gives us anything to read into except that its hell on earth.
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I dont think the pre or post population gives us anything to read into except that its hell on earth.
That it's hell on earth, I agree. My first question was to establish that 70k left if the information you quoted is correct. The second asked you if you knew where they went. I don't know, and I assume you don't, either.
Your premise:
I've often pointed out that many Ukrainians would prefer to be Russian, something the western press don't like to talk about.
I don't think anyone or the press will dispute there are some Ukrainians that might prefer to be Russian, but your example of Bakhmut, or anywhere else for that matter, doesn't allow for quantification beyond some. What percentage of the population is many? Is your critique of the western press justifiable?
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I dont think the pre or post population gives us anything to read into except that its hell on earth.
That it's hell on earth, I agree. My first question was to establish that 70k left if the information you quoted is correct. The second asked you if you knew where they went. I don't know, and I assume you don't, either.
Your premise:
I've often pointed out that many Ukrainians would prefer to be Russian, something the western press don't like to talk about.
I don't think anyone or the press will dispute there are some Ukrainians that might prefer to be Russian, but your example of Bakhmut, or anywhere else for that matter, doesn't allow for quantification beyond some. What percentage of the population is many? Is your critique of the western press justifiable?
Let's keep it simple BC.
I have said in the past that many Ukrainians would rather be Russian, support Russia or be independent and not Ukrainian. When I said this, I meant many Ukrainians in Ukraine. I would only be guessing when it comes to smallish towns.
The media reports that its Ukraine v Russia and Ukrainians fighting Russians but often fails to point out that some pro Russian Ukrainians are fighting Ukrainians or that the Ukrainian forces have been killing pro Russian Ukrainians.
Not to split hairs but to keep things factual.
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Zelensky in trouble?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/zelensky-not-putin-increasingly-threatened-prospect-palace-coup/5810489
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Nahh.. Take global research with a 5 lb bag of salt.
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Nahh.. Take global research with a 5 lb bag of salt.
Global Research is funded by Russia and is strongly anti-Jewish. When it was in the United States it was called The Spotlight. They moved to Canada after loosing a lawsuit that denied The Holocaust.
For what is worth sometimes I think this Wiz’s go to source.
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Zelensky in trouble?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/zelensky-not-putin-increasingly-threatened-prospect-palace-coup/5810489
I don't like Zelensky because I think he's a corrupt puppet working on behalf of wealthy handlers and the West. However, he has done a sterling job from a leadership POV in terms of fighting for Ukraine and rallying his nation.
This public performance along with a majority western sympathy when it comes to the invasion, has for now, masked the truth when it comes to Zelensky and his bosses. If he wasn't at war with Russia, I suspect the popular media would be portraying him in a very different light.
It's down to opinion but I certainly wouldn't be wanting a leader who constantly calls for war, asking for weapons, looking for NATO escalation, forced conscription and arrests and ultimately refusing to discuss peace in the midst of one of the worst conflicts in Europe in a generation.
I accept that some will support him and ask what else he could do but I will forever maintain that peace and the saving of lives will always be more important than the ever changing landscape of politics and national boundaries. The small people never win in war and its about sacrificing ourselves for the elite.
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Zelensky in trouble?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/zelensky-not-putin-increasingly-threatened-prospect-palace-coup/5810489
I don't like Zelensky because I think he's a corrupt puppet working on behalf of wealthy handlers and the West. However, he has done a sterling job from a leadership POV in terms of fighting for Ukraine and rallying his nation.
This public performance along with a majority western sympathy when it comes to the invasion, has for now, masked the truth when it comes to Zelensky and his bosses. If he wasn't at war with Russia, I suspect the popular media would be portraying him in a very different light.
It's down to opinion but I certainly wouldn't be wanting a leader who constantly calls for war, asking for weapons, looking for NATO escalation, forced conscription and arrests and ultimately refusing to discuss peace in the midst of one of the worst conflicts in Europe in a generation.
I accept that some will support him and ask what else he could do but I will forever maintain that peace and the saving of lives will always be more important than the ever changing landscape of politics and national boundaries. The small people never win in war and its about sacrificing ourselves for the elite.
Pretty much everything you said rings true and he's been reckless when discussing Nuclear weapons as well, as if they're toys.
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My mother in law refuses to.leave a flat thats been hit twice.
Shes a russian speaker.
Shes is also pro.ukraine.
She will.lesvevwhen its rubble
There are countless videos of old folk being rescued ,with the rescuecparty under fire. The civilians are pto ukraine that dimoly refusedcto.lezve until the last minute,they are calling the incoming russian troops bad names.
So because someone stays behind doesnt mean thay are pro russian.
That said,i readily admit there would be pro russians that stayed
And that some that evacuated would be pro russian as well.
Its a poor way to evaluate support.
But for a dose of reality ,
most of donbas since.14 ( including mariupol and bakmut etc)was under AFU control this entire time,and by in.large was pro ukraine.
I have family in mikoliavka , near slovyansk.
(Solvyansk is where the two pro ukrainian civilians were executed in girkins orders ,first blood drawn in donbas)
By far most are pro ukraine. Its truly an odd outlyier ,nornally a quite old duedushka .
That is the region of donbas RF is trying to push right now, and has been trying to take and annex from.back.when they still held izum.and lyman.
So its total hogwash as far as annexing donbas as being pro russian. It simply is not.
Same is true for attempted annexation of khersin and zap oblasts. Utterly ridiculous premise
Im sure there is a percent of pro EU folk kaliningrad, it should get annexed then.
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My mother in law refuses to.leave a flat thats been hit twice.
Shes a russian speaker.
Shes is also pro.ukraine.
She will.lesvevwhen its rubble
There are countless videos of old folk being rescued ,with the rescuecparty under fire. The civilians are pto ukraine that dimoly refusedcto.lezve until the last minute,they are calling the incoming russian troops bad names.
So because someone stays behind doesnt mean thay are pro russian.
That said,i readily admit there would be pro russians that stayed
And that some that evacuated would be pro russian as well.
Its a poor way to evaluate support.
But for a dose of reality ,
most of donbas since.14 ( including mariupol and bakmut etc)was under AFU control this entire time,and by in.large was pro ukraine.
I have family in mikoliavka , near slovyansk.
(Solvyansk is where the two pro ukrainian civilians were executed in girkins orders ,first blood drawn in donbas)
By far most are pro ukraine. Its truly an odd outlyier ,nornally a quite old duedushka .
That is the region of donbas RF is trying to push right now, and has been trying to take and annex from.back.when they still held izum.and lyman.
So its total hogwash as far as annexing donbas as being pro russian. It simply is not.
Same is true for attempted annexation of khersin and zap oblasts. Utterly ridiculous premise
Im sure there is a percent of pro EU folk kaliningrad, it should get annexed then.
Are we speaking of your mother in law or mine?
:ROFL:
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Zelensky in trouble?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/zelensky-not-putin-increasingly-threatened-prospect-palace-coup/5810489
I don't like Zelensky because I think he's a corrupt puppet working on behalf of wealthy handlers and the West. However, he has done a sterling job from a leadership POV in terms of fighting for Ukraine and rallying his nation.
This public performance along with a majority western sympathy when it comes to the invasion, has for now, masked the truth when it comes to Zelensky and his bosses. If he wasn't at war with Russia, I suspect the popular media would be portraying him in a very different light.
It's down to opinion but I certainly wouldn't be wanting a leader who constantly calls for war, asking for weapons, looking for NATO escalation, forced conscription and arrests and ultimately refusing to discuss peace in the midst of one of the worst conflicts in Europe in a generation.
I accept that some will support him and ask what else he could do but I will forever maintain that peace and the saving of lives will always be more important than the ever changing landscape of politics and national boundaries. The small people never win in war and its about sacrificing ourselves for the elite.
Pretty much everything you said rings true and he's been reckless when discussing Nuclear weapons as well, as if they're toys.
Clayton Morris who owns and runs Redacted is a long time professional journalist and truth teller - he is quite critical of both the Biden and Trump Regimes. See time 3.00 for clearly sleep deprived and desperate Comrade Zelensky ranting like a Cocaine Fueled Fiend that the USA and NATO MUST SEND ITS SONS AND DAUGHTERS TO DIE IN UKRAINE NOW if it wants to protect NATO for Freedom and Democracy.
Col Dr. PhD Douglas MacGregor clearly considers Zelensky a desperate Raving Lunatic Madman reminiscent of Hitler during his last days in his Bombed out Berlin Bunker.
Zelensky 10%ski must be under threat of Murder by the Bandera-ista NAZI SBU agents if he tries to flee to Miami with his family to enjoy his 10% Skim he and his cabinet ministers fleeced from both the USA and a lesser extent NATO.
At time 3.00 see Zee-lunatic in a crack fueled desperate rage basically calling for a full Nuclear Strategic War of Annihilation now between NATO and Russia...
[attachimg=1]
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First I wish those who think Zelensky has a mansion in Florida would make up there minds where, sometimes it is Miami and than it is near St. Petersburg. Further below is a report from CNN regarding the comments of Zelensky.
Washington
CNN
—
A viral video of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky takes his remarks out of context to wrongly make it sound like he demanded that Americans send their sons and daughters to fight in the war in Ukraine.
The out-of-context 19-second video has been viewed millions of times on Twitter. It features a clip of Zelensky speaking at a news conference last week as an interpreter translates his words into English as follows: “The US will have to send their sons and daughters, exactly the same way as we are sending, their sons and daughters to war. And they will have to fight, because it’s NATO that we’re talking about. And they will be dying, God forbid, because it’s a horrible thing.”
The clip has circulated widely on Twitter among critics of American financial and military support for the Ukrainian defense against Russia’s invasion. Monica Crowley, a conservative commentator who served in the Trump administration as a spokesperson for the Treasury Department, posted the video on Tuesday night and wrote, “Zelensky now directly threatening us and claiming American sons and daughters will have to fight and die for Ukraine. HELL NO.”
Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah shared former Trump administration official William Wolfe’s tweet of the video in which Wolfe claimed that Zelensky wants “dead Americans on Ukrainian soil.” Lee himself added in a tweet on Tuesday night: “Zelensky has no right to presume that our sons and daughters will fight his war. Shame on him. We’ve somehow sent the message that we work for him. Shame on us!”
Facts First: Zelensky did not say that American sons and daughters will have to fight in Ukraine or die for Ukraine. Rather, he predicted that if Ukraine loses the war against Russia because it does not receive sufficient assistance, Russia will proceed to enter North Atlantic Treaty Organization member countries in the Baltics (a region made up of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) that the US will have to send troops to defend. Under the treaty that governs NATO, an attack on one member is considered an attack on all. Ukraine is not a NATO member.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/GhbRzVBv/Screenshot-2023-03-03-at-09-54-09.jpg)
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Make as many excuses for Zelensky as you want but the people looking at him with their eye's wide open, know the truth. He's correctly been campaigning for western weapons, in order to give his soldiers a better chance and let's face it, without this support the war would have been over long ago.
However, he's being doing his best to draw NATO fully into this conflict since the very beginning and at times, his language is both unacceptable and inflammatory. Yes he's desperate but that doesn't in any way excuse him for trying to start WW3. We can all hear what he said on that interview and the attempted shift in context, doesn't change the thrust or dilute his words, in an way.
I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. He's a dangerous, corrupt little man.
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Washington
CNN
—
A viral video of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky takes his remarks out of context to wrongly make it sound like he demanded that Americans send their sons and daughters to fight in the war in Ukraine.
The out-of-context 19-second video has been viewed millions of times on Twitter. It features a clip of Zelensky speaking at a news conference last week as an interpreter translates his words into English as follows: “The US will have to send their sons and daughters, exactly the same way as we are sending, their sons and daughters to war. And they will have to fight, because it’s NATO that we’re talking about. And they will be dying, God forbid, because it’s a horrible thing.”
The clip has circulated widely on Twitter among critics of American financial and military support for the Ukrainian defense against Russia’s invasion. Monica Crowley, a conservative commentator who served in the Trump administration as a spokesperson for the Treasury Department, posted the video on Tuesday night and wrote, “Zelensky now directly threatening us and claiming American sons and daughters will have to fight and die for Ukraine. HELL NO.”
Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah shared former Trump administration official William Wolfe’s tweet of the video in which Wolfe claimed that Zelensky wants “dead Americans on Ukrainian soil.” Lee himself added in a tweet on Tuesday night: “Zelensky has no right to presume that our sons and daughters will fight his war. Shame on him. We’ve somehow sent the message that we work for him. Shame on us!”
Facts First: Zelensky did not say that American sons and daughters will have to fight in Ukraine or die for Ukraine. Rather, he predicted that if Ukraine loses the war against Russia because it does not receive sufficient assistance, Russia will proceed to enter North Atlantic Treaty Organization member countries in the Baltics (a region made up of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) that the US will have to send troops to defend. Under the treaty that governs NATO, an attack on one member is considered an attack on all. Ukraine is not a NATO member.
What a croc! But it is ‘CNN’.
The perfect example of the phrase - you can put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig. Given some serious thought, that’s exactly Zelensky’s wish if not ‘intent’ - and why not? The US does have a nasty ‘need’, maybe even an addiction of sending its sons and daughters to die for just about everyone else so why not Ukraine?
CNN! Funny.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/GhbRzVBv/Screenshot-2023-03-03-at-09-54-09.jpg)
BC, of all people, actually posted this!?! :chuckle:
Oh well, it did ‘snow’ in LA. I’m sure soon enough folks will see flyings pigs everywhere so anything’s possible these days.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/GhbRzVBv/Screenshot-2023-03-03-at-09-54-09.jpg)
BC, of all people, actually posted this!?! :chuckle:
Oh well, it did ‘snow’ in LA. I’m sure soon enough folks will see flyings pigs everywhere so anything’s possible these days.
If you want to confuse flying pigs with snowflakes, that's fine. But maybe you should investigate, and either confirm or refute, with substance, information in the fact-finding part of the CNN article. Remember context counts.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/GhbRzVBv/Screenshot-2023-03-03-at-09-54-09.jpg)
BC, of all people, actually posted this!?! :chuckle:
Oh well, it did ‘snow’ in LA. I’m sure soon enough folks will see flyings pigs everywhere so anything’s possible these days.
If you want to confuse flying pigs with snowflakes, that's fine. But maybe you should investigate, and either confirm or refute, with substance, information in the fact-finding part of the CNN article. Remember context counts.
Fact, content, CNN?!? :chuckle: Really BC?!? Still nutty after all these years (Sorry Paul). I’d say that’s akin to needle…haystack, no?
Well, one can easily define the (your) action, considering your recent historical displayed conviction, as ‘doublespeak’. Colloquially, ‘talking from both sides of your mouth’. I prefer the indigenous American phrase much better, ‘white man speaks with fork tongue’.
I simply found you posting Mr. Spencer’s quote a bit more than amusing, is all. It’s almost blasphemous.
Oh I almost forgot: Biden/Harris 2024!
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Make as many excuses for Zelensky as you want but the people looking at him with their eye's wide open, know the truth. He's correctly been campaigning for western weapons, in order to give his soldiers a better chance and let's face it, without this support the war would have been over long ago.
However, he's being doing his best to draw NATO fully into this conflict since the very beginning and at times, his language is both unacceptable and inflammatory. Yes he's desperate but that doesn't in any way excuse him for trying to start WW3. We can all hear what he said on that interview and the attempted shift in context, doesn't change the thrust or dilute his words, in an way.
I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. He's a dangerous, corrupt little man.
:thumbsup: tiphat :smokin:
We all learn to read a persons body language and tone of voice when they speak... Contrast to Putin's Calm Demeanor in his recent state of Russia speech and use of measured language... Clearly Zelensky is in an emotional Panic looking sleep deprived and hopped up on Coke Nose Candy. The only reason the UBA Ukraine Banderista Hitlerian Army allow him to keep ACTING as President of New Kiev is that he is now the New Holy Jesus of the Dnieper - a very useful idiot fundraiser beggar bowler who the NATO countries and most recently Janet Yellen US Treasury Babushka visited him in Kiev with a $1.8 Billion USD Blank Check with a promise of another $8 Billion as part of Biden's recent $10 Billion promise...
Brainless Beijing Biden is close to the limit of the last $60 Billion Tranche of Ukraine Blood Money authorized in the previous congress' Omnibus Bill. Without this BLOOD Money intended to fight to the last Ukrainian 200,000 Ukraine Soldiers would not be dead or missing and 300,000 would not be severely wounded and disabled. This is truly BLOOD Money.
If NATO really wanted to defeat Russia the USA, UK and France would have all launched a Thermo-Nuclear First Strike.
The New USA-First Congress wants PEACE NEGOTIATED NOW and NO More Funds for Murderous Favors in Ukraine and NO Thermo-Nuclear WWIII over UA, EU, UK and USA.
Anyone who can not clearly see this is a Democrat Communist Party WAR MONGER.
You know who you are so Phook off and Die you Murderous Morons.
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I simply found you posting Mr. Spencer’s quote a bit more than amusing, is all. It’s almost blasphemous.
Those who take 30 seconds to investigate, can find Zelensky's words in the correct context. Nothing you say or think can change facts.
“The US is never going to give up on the NATO member states. If it happens so that Ukraine, due to various opinions and weakening – depleting – of assistance, loses, Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member states, and then the US will have to send their sons and daughters, exactly the same way as we are sending, their sons and daughters to war. And they will have to fight, because it’s NATO that we’re talking about. And they will be dying, God forbid, because it’s a horrible thing. I wish peace and Ukrainian support to the United States.”
Hint: Sen. Lee deleted his retweet from Trump's Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense regarding the out-of-context video.
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I simply found you posting Mr. Spencer’s quote a bit more than amusing, is all. It’s almost blasphemous.
Those who take 30 seconds to investigate, can find Zelensky's words in the correct context. Nothing you say or think can change facts.
“The US is never going to give up on the NATO member states. If it happens so that Ukraine, due to various opinions and weakening – depleting – of assistance, loses, Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member states, and then the US will have to send their sons and daughters, exactly the same way as we are sending, their sons and daughters to war. And they will have to fight, because it’s NATO that we’re talking about. And they will be dying, God forbid, because it’s a horrible thing. I wish peace and Ukrainian support to the United States.”
Hint: Sen. Lee deleted his retweet from Trump's Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense regarding the out-of-context video.
Do some posters THINK or are they wrapped up in there fuzzy thinking while wearing comfortable slippers?
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Do some posters THINK or are they wrapped up in there fuzzy thinking while wearing comfortable slippers?
I think, for the most part, they allow themselves to be misled into absurdly, denying the most basic facts, and accusing others of being what they really are... the often-used term sheeple comes to mind.
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I simply found you posting Mr. Spencer’s quote a bit more than amusing, is all. It’s almost blasphemous.
Those who take 30 seconds to investigate, can find Zelensky's words in the correct context. Nothing you say or think can change facts.
“The US is never going to give up on the NATO member states. If it happens so that Ukraine, due to various opinions and weakening – depleting – of assistance, loses, Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member states, and then the US will have to send their sons and daughters, exactly the same way as we are sending, their sons and daughters to war. And they will have to fight, because it’s NATO that we’re talking about. And they will be dying, God forbid, because it’s a horrible thing. I wish peace and Ukrainian support to the United States.”
Hint: Sen. Lee deleted his retweet from Trump's Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense regarding the out-of-context video.
Swoosh! Intentional or otherwise, over your head!
I simply found you posting Mr. Spencer’s quote a bit more than amusing, is all. It’s almost blasphemous.
Those who take 30 seconds to investigate, can find Zelensky's words in the correct context. Nothing you say or think can change facts.
“The US is never going to give up on the NATO member states. If it happens so that Ukraine, due to various opinions and weakening – depleting – of assistance, loses, Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member states, and then the US will have to send their sons and daughters, exactly the same way as we are sending, their sons and daughters to war. And they will have to fight, because it’s NATO that we’re talking about. And they will be dying, God forbid, because it’s a horrible thing. I wish peace and Ukrainian support to the United States.”
Hint: Sen. Lee deleted his retweet from Trump's Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense regarding the out-of-context video.
Do some posters THINK or are they wrapped up in there fuzzy thinking while wearing comfortable slippers?
Enter, the sideshow.
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A bit of an odd one here and very little discussion regarding the legality of Ukraines action. As reported by Sky News"
Russian pilot sentenced to 12 years in prison for bombing Ukrainian TV station
A Russian pilot has been sentenced to 12 years in prison after being found guilty of bombing a radio and TV station in the northeastern city of Kharkov.
Colonel Maksim Krishtop launched the strike last year and was captured by troops after his plane was shot down by Ukraine's national guard, the State Service of Special Communications and Information Protection of Ukraine (SSSCIP) said.
He bombarded the tower with eight FAB-500 air bombs, before ejecting himself from the plane as it came under attack, the SSSCIP added.
The broadcasting station, which was only used for "civilian functions" and as a "public alerting system", was destroyed.
"We hope there will be more and more cases like that, and all the Russian military criminals will get what they deserve," the SSSCIP said.
However, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross:
Can POWs be prosecuted in court? Combatants – essentially, members of the armed forces excluding medical and religious personnel – have the right to participate in hostilities; so, when they are in the hands of the enemy (i.e. POWs), they cannot be prosecuted just for having fought for their state.
https://www.icrc.org/en/document/prisoners-war-what-you-need-know
So what is the deal here and is the west ignoring Ukraines apparent flouting of international law, because it suits the narrative? Surely a fighter pilot being caught after a bombing mission, can't be tried and personally convicted? Where does this start and end.......
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So what is the deal here and is the west ignoring Ukraines apparent flouting of international law, because it suits the narrative? Surely a fighter pilot being caught after a bombing mission, can't be tried and personally convicted? Where does this start and end.......
Rosco,
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/11/7330412/
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-putin-pilot-shot-civilian-1687191
seems he allegedly, or admitted to bombing civilian targets and homes. IIRC, such can be prosecuted. He claims he was ordered to do so, but even that would not help his case, unless, maybe it was under duress. I assume alone in a cockpit would not be considered under duress.
Prisoner-of-war status also prevents prisoners from being prosecuted and sentenced solely for having taken part in a conflict. Where combatants have violated humanitarian law—including perpetration of terrorist acts—they may not be deprived of prisoner-of-war status but may be prosecuted for crimes committed according to the rule of law and judicial guarantees recognized by humanitarian law. Offenses punishable by the death penalty are limited.
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/prisoners-of-war/#:~:text=Prisoners%20of%20war%20may%20be,taken%20part%20in%20a%20conflict.
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Apart from anything else, my reading of the text on the ukrainian page suggests that he was not saying his own words. So, they are not, in my opinion, of any great value in understanding the situation.
It's why there are rules about these matters, rules seem to have been broken.
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The newsweek article did report what they describe as a direct quote. I guess his lawyer would have an easier task if he did not state such.
According to Kryshtop: "My third combat flight was on 6 March. I had 4 tonnes of highly explosive aviation bombs on board. During the execution of the combat task I realised that the target was not the enemy’s military objects, but people’s homes and civilians. However, I still executed the malicious order. Later on I was shot down by Ukraine’s air defence and taken prisoner by the National Guardsmen of Ukraine."
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So what is the deal here and is the west ignoring Ukraines apparent flouting of international law, because it suits the narrative? Surely a fighter pilot being caught after a bombing mission, can't be tried and personally convicted? Where does this start and end.......
Rosco,
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/11/7330412/
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-putin-pilot-shot-civilian-1687191
seems he allegedly, or admitted to bombing civilian targets and homes. IIRC, such can be prosecuted. He claims he was ordered to do so, but even that would not help his case, unless, maybe it was under duress. I assume alone in a cockpit would not be considered under duress.
Prisoner-of-war status also prevents prisoners from being prosecuted and sentenced solely for having taken part in a conflict. Where combatants have violated humanitarian law—including perpetration of terrorist acts—they may not be deprived of prisoner-of-war status but may be prosecuted for crimes committed according to the rule of law and judicial guarantees recognized by humanitarian law. Offenses punishable by the death penalty are limited.
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/prisoners-of-war/#:~:text=Prisoners%20of%20war%20may%20be,taken%20part%20in%20a%20conflict.
Lets spin this around.
A Ukrainian pilot who bombs a Russian target gets shot down and captured. He then 'pleads guilty to terrorist acts' and we are told that he allegedly admitted to and wanted to be put in court and as a result gets banged up for 12 years. What would our media be saying then.....ahh but he's a Russian so let's roll with it. :'( It's both corrupt and wrong to be using a POW for political and propaganda purposes.
I call BS and the pilot has been unlawfully tried in a Ukrainian kangaroo court, so they can use it as a deterrent for others joining the war. It's bang out of order and against international law. I'm really surprised to see you trying to justify it BC.
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The newsweek article did report what they describe as a direct quote. I guess his lawyer would have an easier task if he did not state such.
According to Kryshtop: "My third combat flight was on 6 March. I had 4 tonnes of highly explosive aviation bombs on board. During the execution of the combat task I realised that the target was not the enemy’s military objects, but people’s homes and civilians. However, I still executed the malicious order. Later on I was shot down by Ukraine’s air defence and taken prisoner by the National Guardsmen of Ukraine."
Lol that sounds real.
Let's face it, he's not admitting under his own steam, to doing this full stop and we can re-discuss the fact that Ukrainian military assets use 'civilian infrastructure' to fight from. This is a stitch up and people like you appear to be applauding Ukraine breaking international law.....because it's the Russians.
I recall the outcry when Sadam Hussien was parading captured military pilots on the TV. At least he didn't push them through his "court system" and bang them up on long sentences.
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I'm really surprised to see you trying to justify it BC.
Did I? Where? I thought my remarks were quite neutral and factual.
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It amazes me, there are some who are one step away from declaring that the war in Ukraine is just and the fault lies with Zelensky. Certainly, the west made missteps. But there is no reason for this war, period. Some are trying to vilify Zelensky for doing what he was elected to do, defend his country. It is Ukrainian soldiers, men and women as well as innocent citizens, young and old that are losing their lives. If the West wishes to support Kiev so be it. I think some should study the attempt at appeasement that the west carried out with regards to Hitler. If Putler can be thrown back to St. Petersburg, I will not feel sorry for him. What sadness me is so many killed and for what?
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It amazes me, there are some who are one step away from declaring that the war in Ukraine is just and the fault lies with Zelensky. Certainly, the west made missteps. But there is no reason for this war, period. Some are trying to vilify Zelensky for doing what he was elected to do, defend his country. It is Ukrainian soldiers, men and women as well as innocent citizens, young and old that are losing their lives. If the West wishes to support Kiev so be it. I think some should study the attempt at appeasement that the west carried out with regards to Hitler. If Putler can be thrown back to St. Petersburg, I will not feel sorry for him. What sadness me is so many killed and for what?
What amazes me is how folks like you don't seem to understand that it is the likes of you who cheer and perpetuate the killing and destruction of Ukraine.
If you would really like to see this senseless war and destruction to stop, then quit cheering having the west, especially BC's AMERIKA, keep adding fuel to the fire by sending endless weapons of war and destruction and perpetuate this war to continue. The US alone can act like a true global superpower and leader by chairing to broker for peace and stop the madness and make a pact with Russia that Ukraine is free to conduct an open market trade with anyone and anywhere it likes. Free to qualify to become an EU member state - but vow never for a NATO membership - exactly the way even Zelensky wanted to propose in Istanbul back in late March 2022, and before BC's AMERIKA sent Boris the Stooge to Ukraine and told Zelensky to STFU and keep the war going instead.
Hell, The US could have sent over 100 billion dollars to help rebuild Ukraine then, instead of over 100 billion dollars of weapons of destruction and war.
But of course, like BC will undoubtedly would, you won't see it that way.
So this war and destruction will continue to be cheered and the beat goes on...
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Zelensky for doing what he was elected to do, defend his country.
Uh no, he was elected actually to end the war with Donbass and bring them back into the fold by peaceful means.
That escalated quickly :sick0012:
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Victor Orban on the war in Ukraine.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/viktor-orban-war-taking-place-europe-americans-have-final-word
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I am really very curious, when she's talking about "a dictator, who has shut down independent media", is she talking about Putin or Biden?
As usual, the US should stop trying to be the World's policeman, and take care of our own deeply screwed up country!!
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-samantha-power-lets-slip-us-war-russia-ukrainians-doing-fighting
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Hell, The US could have sent over 100 billion dollars to help rebuild Ukraine then, instead of over 100 billion dollars of weapons of destruction and war.
You have a math problem. Weapons are more like 30,000 billion dollars and rebuild fund is expected to be 600 billion dollars which Russia has been so graceful to donate 350 billion dollars.
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More about Hungary's position, this time from OAN.
https://www.oann.com/video/oan-contribution/hungary-as-the-conservative-laboratory-for-the-world/
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You have a math problem. Weapons are more like 30,000 billion dollars.......
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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You have a math problem. Weapons are more like 30,000 billion dollars.......
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Well, he did say it was a ‘problem’.
I do hope at his current state, someone ties a string on him when he steps out the front door so he can still find his way home.
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You have a math problem. Weapons are more like 30,000 billion dollars.......
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Well, he did say it was a ‘problem’.
I do hope at his current state, someone ties a string on him when he steps out the front door so he can still find his way home.
Lol
It's almost Bidenesque.
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https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022
Congress Approved $113 Billion of Aid to Ukraine in 2022
JAN 5, 2023 OTHER SPENDING
Since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine less than one year ago, Congress has approved more than $113 billion of aid and military assistance to support the Ukrainian government and allied nations. The Fiscal Year (FY) 2023 omnibus appropriations package included an additional $47.3 billion of emergency funding to provide humanitarian, military, and economic assistance to Ukraine on top of the $65.8 billion of funding already approved in three other emergency funding packages enacted by Congress.
Of the $113 billion approved in 2022, about three-fifths ($67 billion) has been allocated toward defense needs and the remaining two-fifths ($46 billion) to nondefense concerns such as general Ukrainian government aid, economic support, and aid for refugee resettlement. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) provided cost estimates of the four funding packages at the time each was passed. In total, CBO estimated that $6.6 billion of the $113 billion would be spent in FY 2022 and another $37.7 billion in FY 2023. Furthermore, CBO estimated more than half of the approved funds would be spent by the end of FY 2024 and more than three-fourths by the end of FY 2026.
To date, the Biden Administration has sent Ukraine roughly $26 billion of direct military aid, mainly in the form of military hardware, training, and supplies.
Congressionally-Authorized Emergency Ukraine Aid Enacted in 2022
Total Authorized
Drawdown Replenishment $27.2 billion
Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative $18 billion
United States Military $15.2 billion
Foreign Military Financing Program $4.7 billion
Other Defense $2 billion
Subtotal, Defense $67.1 billion
Economic Support Fund $26.9 billion
International Disaster Assistance $7.9 billion
Assistance for Refugees $6.6 billion
Assistance for Europe, Eurasia, and Central Asia $1.5 billion
Other Nondefense $3.1 billion
Subtotal, Nondefense $46 billion
Total $113.1 billion
Memo: Total direct military support provided via PDA, USAI, and FMF $25.9 billion
The three main channels for providing direct military aid to Ukraine are Presidential Drawdown Authority (PDA), the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), and Foreign Military Financing (FMF).
Using PDA, the President can send military hardware out of the U.S. military’s own stockpiles directly to Ukraine. President Biden has utilized this authority 27 times since Russia invaded Ukraine to send nearly $15.6 billion worth of U.S. military hardware. Congress sets the limit on how much support the President can provide through PDA in a given fiscal year. In the second Ukraine funding bill passed in May, Congress set the limit for FY 2022 at $11 billion, and President Biden used approximately 84 percent of that authority to send $9.2 billion worth of military hardware through September. Prior to enactment of the FY 2023 omnibus, Congress had approved $3.7 billion of PDA for FY 2023, which had been fully used as of Dec. 21. The omnibus included an additional $10.8 billion of PDA authority, bringing the limit for FY 2023 to $14.5 billion.
Through USAI, the federal government contracts with the private sector to provide training, supplies, and other operational needs to the Ukrainian military and other allies. The Biden Administration has utilized USAI on eight occasions since April to provide nearly $7.2 billion in support, out of $18 billion authorized by Congress.
Finally, the federal government uses FMF to backfill the stockpiles of NATO allies that have sent their own military hardware directly to Ukraine. The Biden Administration has used FMF three times since the beginning of the war to provide a total of $3.1 billion of support, out of $4.7 billion authorized by Congress.
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Seems like money well spent. What concerns me when funds start to flow for rebuilding Ukraine, that is when you will see massive fraud and graft.
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You have a math problem. Weapons are more like 30,000 billion dollars.......
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Now look at who looks stupid.
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It amazes me, there are some who are one step away from declaring that the war in Ukraine is just and the fault lies with Zelensky. Certainly, the west made missteps. But there is no reason for this war, period. Some are trying to vilify Zelensky for doing what he was elected to do, defend his country. It is Ukrainian soldiers, men and women as well as innocent citizens, young and old that are losing their lives. If the West wishes to support Kiev so be it. I think some should study the attempt at appeasement that the west carried out with regards to Hitler. If Putler can be thrown back to St. Petersburg, I will not feel sorry for him. What sadness me is so many killed and for what?
What amazes me is how folks like you don't seem to understand that it is the likes of you who cheer and perpetuate the killing and destruction of Ukraine.
If you would really like to see this senseless war and destruction to stop, then quit cheering having the west, especially BC's AMERIKA, keep adding fuel to the fire by sending endless weapons of war and destruction and perpetuate this war to continue. The US alone can act like a true global superpower and leader by chairing to broker for peace and stop the madness and make a pact with Russia that Ukraine is free to conduct an open market trade with anyone and anywhere it likes. Free to qualify to become an EU member state - but vow never for a NATO membership - exactly the way even Zelensky wanted to propose in Istanbul back in late March 2022, and before BC's AMERIKA sent Boris the Stooge to Ukraine and told Zelensky to STFU and keep the war going instead.
On the one hand I wish Ukrainians were able to keep more of their country. OTOH I like many other want this war to end. I tend to agree with you that most or all of this could have been prevented.
I have no doubt that if the will of the people had been respected and Trump was President none of this would have happened. Biden is by far the worst "President" in history, stumbling from one gigantic screw up like Afghanistan into another.
I suspect someday the Ukrainian people will realized that they were played by the warmongers in London and in WA DC. Truly a very tragic event in history.
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Ukranian loss.
Not a lot of context, other than it is a pow, an unarmed ukrainian soldier being executed by russian soldiers.
This was initially posted on.russian telegram channels ,but obviously ukrainian channels quickly responded to it and its taking on a snake island like defiance motto
The main point.is he is a pow, on ukrainian soil,
and executed then cursed for saying glory to ukraine.
The execution is by firing squad, so not as savage as the castration video last year , however still viewer discretion advised.
https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1632724928448417792?s=20
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Ukranian loss.
Not a lot of context, other than it is a pow, an unarmed ukrainian soldier being executed by russian soldiers.
This was initially posted on.russian telegram channels ,but obviously ukrainian channels quickly responded to it and its taking on a snake island like defiance motto
The main point.is he is a pow, on ukrainian soil,
and executed then cursed for saying glory to ukraine.
The execution is by firing squad, so not as savage as the castration video last year , however still viewer discretion advised.
https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1632724928448417792?s=20
Whatever our thoughts are regarding the larger landscape of this conflict, stuff like this is shocking. Just another bloke doing his bit for his country and some absolute shite hawks think it's acceptable to take his life. Sadly this happens in every war because some humans, irrespective of their nationality, are absolute w@nkers.
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Seems like money well spent. What concerns me when funds start to flow for rebuilding Ukraine, that is when you will see massive fraud and graft.
LOLOL Goldman Sachs and Blackrock will be in charge of buying up Ukraine for pennies on the dollar and Urban Renewal and will have Auditors in place to track every dollar of their investments.
However when NPR is questioning where all the Ukraine Beijing Biden Slush Funds are going (Hunter's Biden Family Chinese Bank Accounts perhaps?) - NPR is a mouthpiece for the DNC and Biden Admin - When corrupt old Joe Beijing Biden is embarrassed by the amount of Funds and Weapons theft and diversion going on while hundreds of thousands of Ukraine's Men are dying in trenches - it is not a good look even for old Kickbacks Joe and Zalenski 10Percentski...
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/20/1112414884/corruption-concerns-involving-ukraine-are-revived-as-the-war-with-russia-drags-o
Dig around the dark webs and you will find US Weapons for sale in Shitehole Country Arms Bazzars from Azerbaijan to the Stans to Congo to Serbia and Ukraine Outlaw Biker Gangs selling US weapons to Russia, China and EU Terrorists across EU Allies countries... when the "peaceful" islamist radicals providing cultural diversity to suicidal self loathing Europeans start uncorking Stinger etc Missiles on EU Commercial airliners AvHdB will be the first to feign Shock Shock Shock that there is gross corruption and a 30% Skim of Cash and Weapons' in Ukraine.
It is one thing for Zalenski 10%ski and his ministers to take a skim off of weapons the Ukrainians were not trained to use properly "to get money to trade for more artillery shells" but they became hated in Ukraine for tripling the cost paid for eggs and food and medicine to feed and care for Ukraine's Men fighting and Dying in cold frozen or muddy trenches.
In George Washington's time anyone selling tainted Meat or Food to the Continental Troops would not get a firing squad - why waste bullets - they would be hung by their necks for all the Public to See.
Zalenski 10Percentski KNOWS this is his fate for refusing to negotiate peace and sending ONE HALF MILLION Ukraine Men and Boys to their deaths or gruesomely wounded all while stealing their food and medicines and selling them to shite hole countries black arms markets.
After this war is over Ukraine Veterans will have a Black List of Ukraine Traitors against her Valiant Troops and you will be surprised how many will be ground up into fish chum in the Black Sea never to be heard from again - after their beatings where they divulge where they hid their stolen US Aid...
Phooking Brilliant Blokes...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukraine-criminals-selling-american-missiles-27148809
Ukrainian crooks are flogging US-made Javelin rocket launchers on the dark web for $30,000, according to pro-Russian media.
A screenshot on social media shows the anti-tank weapon being sold by a user in Kiev – and it comes as Interpol, the cross-border police force, warned many of the weapons sent to Ukraine will eventually wind up in criminal hands in Europe.
https://www.ft.com › content › bce78c78-b899-4dd2-b3a0-69d789b8aee8
Nato and EU sound alarm over risk of Ukraine weapons smuggling
The potential for US weapons sent to Ukraine to fall into the wrong hands is "among a host of considerations" given the "challenging situation" on the ground in the country,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-weapons-end-up-criminal-hands-says-interpol-chief-jurgen-stock
“Criminal groups try to exploit these chaotic situations and the availability of weapons, even those used by the military and including heavy weapons. These will be available on the criminal market and will create a challenge. No country or region can deal with it in isolation because these groups operate at a global level.”
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-weapons-ukraine-would-entering-black-market/5780918
In this sense, American investigative journalist Daniel Lazare believes that such a deviation will certainly happen, also emphasizing the issue of Ukrainian corruption, which is recognized as one of the biggest in Europe:
“Vast amounts of western armaments are entering the country but are then being lost in the fog of war (…) Much of the aid will presumably find its way to battlefield forces. But since Kiev is far and away the most corrupt government in Europe, it’s a sad bet that some portion will end up in the hands of third parties involved in the illicit international arms trade. Once the fighting stops we can expect much of what’s left over to find its way to the black market”.
The corruption factor is really important to be analyzed. Ukraine is home to one of the largest black arms markets on the European continent. In short, trafficking networks operate freely in the country, without any state interest in capturing and prosecuting such criminals, which is certainly a consequence of the widespread corruption of Ukrainian public agents. Police officers, politicians, judges and other agents who should uphold the law not only fail to fight arms trafficking, but they also certainly benefit financially from the operation of organized crime due to their corrupt schemes.
The result of all this is catastrophic. The US-funded 2021 Global Organized Crime Index points to an exponential growth of the illegal arms trade in Ukraine since the beginning of the civil war in Donbass, mainly in the cities affected by the hostilities. In the same vein, journalists and academic researchers linked to the Small Arms Survey, an independent investigative project based in Geneva, point out that between 2013 and 2015, more than 300,000 weapons “disappeared” from Ukraine, of which only 13% were later recovered, being the rest lost in the midst of international smuggling networks.
Concrete examples of corruption also demonstrate the seriousness of the case. In 2019, unidentified Ukrainian soldiers were caught trying to sell a package of 40 RGD-5 grenades, 15 RPG-22 rockets and 2,454 firearm cartridges, according to a report by journalists from Responsible Statecraft. The following year, 2020, Ukrainian intelligence exposed data that confirmed the diversion of dozens of grenades and anti-tank mines from a military base in Odessa that were never recovered.
It is necessary that before sending weapons to Ukraine the American authorities question themselves about their ability to supervise what will be done with such equipment. If Ukrainian agents have been repeatedly diverting weapons from their own state since 2013, they are expected to do the same with what they now receive from the US. And surely the scenario resulting from the diversion of billion-dollar packages to arms smugglers would be catastrophic for global security.
Graft and Backsheesh Kickbacks are Normal Operating Business Practices in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
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Ukranian loss.
Not a lot of context, other than it is a pow, an unarmed ukrainian soldier being executed by russian soldiers.
This was initially posted on.russian telegram channels ,but obviously ukrainian channels quickly responded to it and its taking on a snake island like defiance motto
The main point.is he is a pow, on ukrainian soil,
and executed then cursed for saying glory to ukraine.
The execution is by firing squad, so not as savage as the castration video last year , however still viewer discretion advised.
https://twitter.com/sternenko/status/1632724928448417792?s=20
Whatever our thoughts are regarding the larger landscape of this conflict, stuff like this is shocking. Just another bloke doing his bit for his country and some absolute shite hawks think it's acceptable to take his life. Sadly this happens in every war because some humans, irrespective of their nationality, are absolute w@nkers.
Agree 100%.
The USA needs a grown-up to stop this war STAT!
Here is an article about the deceased soldier. His name, where he is from and the shock the villagers feel about this incident.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/details-life-tymofiy-shadura-shot-152500664.html
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Zelensky for doing what he was elected to do, defend his country.
Uh no, he was elected actually to end the war with Donbass and bring them back into the fold by peaceful means.
That escalated quickly :sick0012:
Uh, no. He won because he campaigned on tackling corruption.
Someone PM'd me last week to ask about what Zelensky actually said in the clip being debated on the previous page. Sorry for the delay, I just saw your PM.
What Zelensky said (after listening to a clip on a Ukrainian media channel) is that if Ukraine loses the war, Russia will eventually enter the Baltic states. At that point, NATO will enter into war, and American soldiers will be forced to defend a NATO member.
This took me about 30 seconds to find. I don't know how any of you "geniuses" missed it (/s).
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Zelensky for doing what he was elected to do, defend his country.
Uh no, he was elected actually to end the war with Donbass and bring them back into the fold by peaceful means.
That escalated quickly :sick0012:
Uh, no. He won because he campaigned on tackling corruption.
Someone PM'd me last week to ask about what Zelensky actually said in the clip being debated on the previous page. Sorry for the delay, I just saw your PM.
What Zelensky said (after listening to a clip on a Ukrainian media channel) is that if Ukraine loses the war, Russia will eventually enter the Baltic states. At that point, NATO will enter into war, and American soldiers will be forced to defend a NATO member.
This took me about 30 seconds to find. I don't know how any of you "geniuses" missed it (/s).
I find it hard to believe that you don't think Zelensky is corrupt.
Did you read the article at Kiev Independent about the Foreign fighters and a senior officer, who turned out to be a felon from Poland, who ordered them to break into Ukrainian businesses, steal merchandise and give it to him? Numerous weapons also disappeared, which he probably sold on the black market.
Some of the American foreign fighters sent letters to Zelensky's office, which were ignored. Last I checked the felon from Poland is still employed and an officer.
As far as Americans having to fight Russia for NATO when Russia (allegedly) invades Poland -- sorry I don't buy that and most here do not either.
I have rooted for Ukrainians to win the war, but it's time for peace. There should have and would have been some form of peace deal prior to all of this. I know many will argue that you cannot trust the Russians.
Personally I have the same lack of faith in the people currently running the US administration.
https://Kievindependent.com/investigations/suicide-missions-abuse-physical-threats-international-legion-fighters-speak-out-against-leaderships-misconduct
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Mobilized russians from.kaliningrad ,upset at dpr troops and at.thier command saying they.will no longer fight at the front.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1633518847671123968?t=xhEjy8bqwtzj0h8UZwJTng&s=19
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Riots in Tilbilsi Georgia.
(Maxx you still.there?)
https://twitter.com/Shamemovement/status/1633240231766904835?t=ER4OWwGys7le8r7hBUytSw&s=19
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I have rooted for Ukrainians to win the war, but it's time for peace. There should have and would have been some form of peace deal prior to all of this. I know many will argue that you cannot trust the Russians.
You can totally trust the Russian and know just what they are going to do. They want to demilitarize the Ukraine then take over the whole country. Then de Nazified it what in Russian means kill anyone who might not like Russian control. Destroy anything Ukraine related to Ukrainian to national identity. Cause two thirds of the population to leave the country. If you look at any territory Russia has taken this is what happened. A peace deal with Russia would be even worse than the war. Not going to happen. War likely to continue into 2024.
The war continues because both side think there position will be better in the future by not striking a peace deal now. Ukraine thinks it can reclaim more of its land and Russia wants to be given more land than it occupies in any peace deal. Ukraine wants to keep its weapons and Russia want them to give them up. Ukraine want a security agreement and Russia does not want to give them one except to have faith in them. So far there has been no deal that could of been struck with Russia that left Ukraine an independent country for long after the deal was reached. So war continues until 2024 and maybe beyond.
Putin keeps looking at Col McGregor's videos and thinks he is about to win. So, he does not want anything less than a peace deal which would really mean the complete surrender of Ukraine.
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Uh, no. He won because he campaigned on tackling corruption.
One of his specific campaign points was to end the war with Donbass and use propaganda 'welcome back' campaign to lure them out instead of sending more military units.
I know, because thats the main reason my own wife voted for him.
(she'd not vote for him now).
Better read up on that.
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Uh, no. He won because he campaigned on tackling corruption.
That's hilarious.
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Uh, no. He won because he campaigned on tackling corruption.
That's hilarious.
Still far from her best zinger though.
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This gal could’ve well added ‘Ukraine’ in addition to ‘Syria’. Ah heck, in more places than those really.
https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1633558529146585089?s=20
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I have rooted for Ukrainians to win the war, but it's time for peace. There should have and would have been some form of peace deal prior to all of this. I know many will argue that you cannot trust the Russians.
You can totally trust the Russian and know just what they are going to do. They want to demilitarize the Ukraine then take over the whole country. Then de Nazified it what in Russian means kill anyone who might not like Russian control. Destroy anything Ukraine related to Ukrainian to national identity. Cause two thirds of the population to leave the country. If you look at any territory Russia has taken this is what happened. A peace deal with Russia would be even worse than the war. Not going to happen. War likely to continue into 2024.
The war continues because both side think there position will be better in the future by not striking a peace deal now. Ukraine thinks it can reclaim more of its land and Russia wants to be given more land than it occupies in any peace deal. Ukraine wants to keep its weapons and Russia want them to give them up. Ukraine want a security agreement and Russia does not want to give them one except to have faith in them. So far there has been no deal that could of been struck with Russia that left Ukraine an independent country for long after the deal was reached. So war continues until 2024 and maybe beyond.
Putin keeps looking at Col McGregor's videos and thinks he is about to win. So, he does not want anything less than a peace deal which would really mean the complete surrender of Ukraine.
Dr. PhD Col Douglas MacGregor (US Army Retired) is a man of honor, a combat commander and veteran - a product of the West Point Code of Honor... You do not Cheat, you do not Steal and you do not Lie.
Col MacGregor's intel sources appeared to be quite TRUTHFUL last night on ABC Nightly News broadcasting with an on the ground reporter 15 miles West of Bahkmut showing Ukraine Armored Track Vehicles at high speed evacuating Bahkmut going due west even after Zalenski 10%ski lied and said he was sending more reinforcements to DIE in Bahkmut.
The tide of war has turned in Ukraine, the Beijing Biden NeoLiberal Marxist Democrats have another failure to add to their long list of incompetent failures domestically and internationally.
Zalenski 10%ski and Brain Dead Bumbling Biden do have one fact in their favor, Putin would prefer Nuclear Fallout Radiation Clouds do not follow the prevailing Jet Stream winds from West to East across Russia and knowing that Beijing Biden is cranky-demented, mentally unwell and volatile with his fingers on the Nuclear Football - Putin and Russia Inc., would likely entertain a sincere Peace Initiative via a trusted third party rather than risk an accidental full blown thermo-nuclear war with volatile Dementia Patient #1 at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
This is the last time the corrupt actor Zalenski 10%ski has a real chance to negotiate peace because if it does go Nuclear it is lights out across the Northern Hemisphere.
Hasta LaVista[attachimg=1] MoFoes...
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Dream on. He has not been right all year. He always has a negative Ukraine outlook and always the Ukraine is just a month or so from not existing. Look at report in six months and see what I mean. He must be doing this for some financial reason he could not be this wrong and spread this much fake news by accident. The winter campaign was supposed to go all the way to Kiev not in it just the next small village. After eight months and loss of well over forty thousand troops Russia may capture Bahkmut.
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https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/638808422/letland-stuurt-auto-s-van-dronken-chauffeurs-naar-oekraine
Ok, I laughed reall hard on that one.
Latvia is sending cars from drunk-drivers to Ukraine as punishment ..... WHAHAHAHA
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Dream on. He has not been right all year. He always has a negative Ukraine outlook and always the Ukraine is just a month or so from not existing. Look at report in six months and see what I mean. He must be doing this for some financial reason he could not be this wrong and spread this much fake news by accident. The winter campaign was supposed to go all the way to Kiev not in it just the next small village. After eight months and loss of well over forty thousand troops Russia may capture Bahkmut.
Bahkmut isn't just a small village Tex, it's the front line. Yea the Russians are taking losses but don't think for a minute that Ukraine isn't. In fact, Ukraine and Russia are throwing the kitchen sink at Bahkmut and if Russia wins, Ukraine will be on the run with tens of thousands of fighters killed or out of action, a whole load of ammo consumed and potentially a serious momentum swing.
Yea I know you think that "The Ukraine" is standing strong and its only Russia being pushed through the meat grinder, but then again you generally get everything upside down and back to front.
Personally I take my hat off to the poor Ukrainian lads being turned into pink mist in their thousands, none of them should be dying but they certainly have courage, heart and pride. Sadly for them, I just can't see them holding onto Bahkmut for much longer given the balance of fire power, man power and almost being encircled.
Time will tell I suppose but Ukraine certainly don't have a Bahkmut in them, every village from there to Kiev.
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https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/638808422/letland-stuurt-auto-s-van-dronken-chauffeurs-naar-oekraine
Ok, I laughed reall hard on that one.
Latvia is sending cars from drunk-drivers to Ukraine as punishment ..... WHAHAHAHA
I read an article in english about this. it seems the cars would normally go to an auction. about 1200 (do not quote me, bad memory) vehicles have been sent to Ukraine so far. one car even had a Russian flag taped on the dash :)
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Dream on. He has not been right all year. He always has a negative Ukraine outlook and always the Ukraine is just a month or so from not existing. Look at report in six months and see what I mean. He must be doing this for some financial reason he could not be this wrong and spread this much fake news by accident. The winter campaign was supposed to go all the way to Kiev not in it just the next small village. After eight months and loss of well over forty thousand troops Russia may capture Bahkmut.
Bahkmut isn't just a small village Tex, it's the front line. Yea the Russians are taking losses but don't think for a minute that Ukraine isn't. In fact, Ukraine and Russia are throwing the kitchen sink at Bahkmut and if Russia wins, Ukraine will be on the run with tens of thousands of fighters killed or out of action, a whole load of ammo consumed and potentially a serious momentum swing.
Yea I know you think that "The Ukraine" is standing strong and its only Russia being pushed through the meat grinder, but then again you generally get everything upside down and back to front.
Personally I take my hat off to the poor Ukrainian lads being turned into pink mist in their thousands, none of them should be dying but they certainly have courage, heart and pride. Sadly for them, I just can't see them holding onto Bahkmut for much longer given the balance of fire power, man power and almost being encircled.
Time will tell I suppose but Ukraine certainly don't have a Bahkmut in them, every village from there to Kiev.
Sure ukraine has huge losses in bakmut.
So does russia.
Thats war.
This ukraine is collapasing narrative from the pressure point of 40 kilometers in a thousand kilometer front line is silly though.
In the last 7 months,
Russia lost 100s of kilometers of front line in the north ,the west and the south
And yes after months they have gained 20 kilometers in a 40 kilometers stretch.
Its not good for ukraine,none of the conflict is,but its hardly telling.
Was russian withdrawel from.Kharkov, amd khersin ?
Not really.
It did show ukraine could pressurecthem enough to force them.to concrntrate on donestl oblast and theor new land brige areas,
Funny how thats all that is bring truly defended by russia,but this isnt a land grab right?
Anyway we all believe our own flavor of news.
But russian ministry of defense itself merged 155th and 40th battalions .
This is most likely due to loses and lack of reinforcements to bring both battalions to combat strenght individually,so merging tonobe battalion solved this more.quickly
The 155th had previously been replenished with men 7 times.
At this point rumors they refused to participate in further offensive action,
And russian MOD while not acknowledging this protest occured did send in Rosgvardia.
Pretty damn likely to regain control of two battalions protesting.
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Roscoe absolutely agree that ukraine may not have a bakmut every village to
Kiev in them.
But i equally doubt RF has a bakmut every village to even Dnepropetrovsk in them.
Bakmut gains were almost entirely wagner pmc.
I simply dont think wagner pmc can carry RF on its shoulders to Kiev.
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https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/638808422/letland-stuurt-auto-s-van-dronken-chauffeurs-naar-oekraine
Ok, I laughed reall hard on that one.
Latvia is sending cars from drunk-drivers to Ukraine as punishment ..... WHAHAHAHA
Oh Oh Driveling Ol' Tex is about to lose his vehicles to his beloved Zalenski Bidenistas. tiphat :thumbsup: :smokin: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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I have rooted for Ukrainians to win the war, but it's time for peace. There should have and would have been some form of peace deal prior to all of this. I know many will argue that you cannot trust the Russians.
You can totally trust the Russian and know just what they are going to do. They want to demilitarize the Ukraine then take over the whole country. Then de Nazified it what in Russian means kill anyone who might not like Russian control. Destroy anything Ukraine related to Ukrainian to national identity. Cause two thirds of the population to leave the country. If you look at any territory Russia has taken this is what happened. A peace deal with Russia would be even worse than the war. Not going to happen. War likely to continue into 2024.
The war continues because both side think there position will be better in the future by not striking a peace deal now. Ukraine thinks it can reclaim more of its land and Russia wants to be given more land than it occupies in any peace deal. Ukraine wants to keep its weapons and Russia want them to give them up. Ukraine want a security agreement and Russia does not want to give them one except to have faith in them. So far there has been no deal that could of been struck with Russia that left Ukraine an independent country for long after the deal was reached. So war continues until 2024 and maybe beyond.
Putin keeps looking at Col McGregor's videos and thinks he is about to win. So, he does not want anything less than a peace deal which would really mean the complete surrender of Ukraine.
War will continue likely into 2024?
Just how many young men do you think that Ukraine has to expend their lives on this catastrophe?
Too bad that your son-in-law escaped Ukraine and isn't fighting, huh? Will he be going back to participate in the frontline?
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Interesting, Ukraine's Air Defenses have been so badly degraded by Moscow's advanced ISR (Intel-Surveil-Recon) that all 90 Missiles in the latest strategic Military De-lectrification Campaign (To Stop NATO Electric Trains Resupply and Janet Yeltsin/Beijing Biden Multi-Billion Bux Laundering campaigns) Russia used six of their New Jet Launched Hypersonic Cruise Missiles impervious to NATO/Ukraine air Defenses...
Russian War Factories working 24/7/365 to produce massive numbers of additional ammo from 155mm Hard Artillery Shells to Advanced Hypersonic Cruise Missile and advanced Hypersonic Tactical and Strategic ICBM Nukes... Pink Mist Horizons En-Route to the EU.
Hasta LaVista MoFoes...
Putin just changed EVERYTHING with this move and NATO can't do anything | Redacted w Clayton Morris
What is the military tactic in Ukraine that the media won't explain to us? Don't worry, we've got former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter on the show to explain how Ukraine is on the ropes, no matter what Ukraine or NATO does.
[attachimg=1]
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Of course awaiting the High on his Own Supply Red Neck Tex's Twisted Tortured Telling Tirade spin on this...
:GRAVE: :trainwreck:
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Dream on. He has not been right all year. He always has a negative Ukraine outlook and always the Ukraine is just a month or so from not existing. Look at report in six months and see what I mean. He must be doing this for some financial reason he could not be this wrong and spread this much fake news by accident. The winter campaign was supposed to go all the way to Kiev not in it just the next small village. After eight months and loss of well over forty thousand troops Russia may capture Bahkmut.
Bahkmut isn't just a small village Tex, it's the front line. Yea the Russians are taking losses but don't think for a minute that Ukraine isn't. In fact, Ukraine and Russia are throwing the kitchen sink at Bahkmut and if Russia wins, Ukraine will be on the run with tens of thousands of fighters killed or out of action, a whole load of ammo consumed and potentially a serious momentum swing.
Yea I know you think that "The Ukraine" is standing strong and its only Russia being pushed through the meat grinder, but then again you generally get everything upside down and back to front.
Personally I take my hat off to the poor Ukrainian lads being turned into pink mist in their thousands, none of them should be dying but they certainly have courage, heart and pride. Sadly for them, I just can't see them holding onto Bahkmut for much longer given the balance of fire power, man power and almost being encircled.
Time will tell I suppose but Ukraine certainly don't have a Bahkmut in them, every village from there to Kiev.
Sure ukraine has huge losses in bakmut.
So does russia.
Thats war.
This ukraine is collapasing narrative from the pressure point of 40 kilometers in a thousand kilometer front line is silly though.
In the last 7 months,
Russia lost 100s of kilometers of front line in the north ,the west and the south
And yes after months they have gained 20 kilometers in a 40 kilometers stretch.
Its not good for ukraine,none of the conflict is,but its hardly telling.
Was russian withdrawel from.Kharkov, amd khersin ?
Not really.
It did show ukraine could pressurecthem enough to force them.to concrntrate on donestl oblast and theor new land brige areas,
Funny how thats all that is bring truly defended by russia,but this isnt a land grab right?
Anyway we all believe our own flavor of news.
But russian ministry of defense itself merged 155th and 40th battalions .
This is most likely due to loses and lack of reinforcements to bring both battalions to combat strenght individually,so merging tonobe battalion solved this more.quickly
The 155th had previously been replenished with men 7 times.
At this point rumors they refused to participate in further offensive action,
And russian MOD while not acknowledging this protest occured did send in Rosgvardia.
Pretty damn likely to regain control of two battalions protesting.
AJ, I didn't suggest once that the loss of Bahkmut would signal the end of Ukraine or the collapse of the defence forces. Yes the front does consist of 100's of kilometres but right now, Bahkmut is the key area from both a strategic and momentum POV. Both Russia and Ukraine have dug deep in an effort to win and defend this town because it means far more than just a deserted town in the wastelands of the east.
Resources on both sides have been consumed in both ammunition and people and its become a landmark in this conflict, otherwise who the f@ck who'd have heard of Bahkmut? And if it wasn't so important, Ukraine would've fallen back to safer ground and re-gathered the troops. Instead they're playing a game of all or nothing, just like the Russians.
Like I said, Ukraine wont fall if they lose the town and yes there is fighting happening all over the country but this one is certainly noteworthy. The losers will have lost thousands of good men and tonnes of weaponry, only to have lost. It may well be one of several key turning points in the conflict.
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Holy Phooking Aye Mates - This does not look Good for Zalenski 10%Ski and his band of Banderista Backsheesh Boyz...
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-9-2023
[attachimg=1]
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Roscoe absolutely agree that ukraine may not have a bakmut every village to
Kiev in them.
But i equally doubt RF has a bakmut every village to even Dnepropetrovsk in them.
Bakmut gains were almost entirely wagner pmc.
I simply dont think wagner pmc can carry RF on its shoulders to Kiev.
Yes I agree, which is why I think this victory is more important than a dilapidated town.
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Roscoe, agree.
And i did not intend to.imply you said ukraine was collasping over bakmut.
I was refering to the media sources that seem bent on making bakmut something crucial.
It was vrucial when RF held izum,but now they dont.
Honestly izum was just as pivoal as
Bakmut,the RF headquarted there.
As far as ukrainian loses i would view
Poposna and severdonetsk as much more crucial when they occured..
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War will continue likely into 2024?
Just how many young men do you think that Ukraine has to expend their lives on this catastrophe?
Too bad that your son-in-law escaped Ukraine and isn't fighting, huh? Will he be going back to participate in the frontline?
How many lives does Russia want to lose in this battle of conquest. Only Russia can stop the war and they do not seem to want to. Looks like Russian Bakhmut advance is in a state of pause. Will Russia take Bakhmut? They might, but it is not for sure.
All these missile strikes do little for the war it is mainly propaganda for the pro war people back in Russia. See what we are doing in Ukraine. It gives col McGregor something to talk about.
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War will continue likely into 2024?
Just how many young men do you think that Ukraine has to expend their lives on this catastrophe?
Too bad that your son-in-law escaped Ukraine and isn't fighting, huh? Will he be going back to participate in the frontline?
How many lives does Russia want to lose in this battle of conquest. Only Russia can stop the war and they do not seem to want to. Looks like Russian Bakhmut advance is in a state of pause. Will Russia take Bakhmut? They might, but it is not for sure.
All these missile strikes do little for the war it is mainly propaganda for the pro war people back in Russia. See what we are doing in Ukraine. It gives col McGregor something to talk about.
No answer is an answer.
I will take that as a no, your son-in-law is not going to go back and defend the country he was born in. :coffeeread:
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They do not believe the war with Russia will ever end. It has been going on since 2014 and they had been refugees twice by it. The boy has wanted to come to the USA for many years. The mother did not. But now she is here and developing a new life I doubt she will ever go back neither.
I do not make how long the war will last. But is appears it will be until 2024 before Russia see they are not going to win. US intelligent does not seem to think Russia can mount an offensive that will amount to anything. Ukraine is reporting Russia losing 7 troop to their one in the present offensive. It is believed that Russia maybe culminating or will do so soon. There is a lot of infighting going on inside the Russian military indicating they may be having serious problems. Why should Ukraine surrender now and have a large Russian purge that will kill far more than the war?
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They do not believe the war with Russia will ever end. It has been going on since 2014 and they had been refugees twice by it. The boy has wanted to come to the USA for many years. The mother did not. But now she is here and developing a new life I doubt she will ever go back neither.
I do not make how long the war will last. But is appears it will be until 2024 before Russia see they are not going to win. US intelligent does not seem to think Russia can mount an offensive that will amount to anything. Ukraine is reporting Russia losing 7 troop to their one in the present offensive. It is believed that Russia maybe culminating or will do so soon. There is a lot of infighting going on inside the Russian military indicating they may be having serious problems. Why should Ukraine surrender now and have a large Russian purge that will kill far more than the war?
Can you show me where I said Ukraine should surrender now? I simply hope for peace -- it begins with a cease fire and peace talks. I also wish that all Russian soldiers would go home.
I do not blame your son-in-law to be honest, but I do hope he also wants peace, for the sake of Ukrainian young men still stuck there.
It is very sad Ukraine has lost some land, but if more Ukrainian young men lose their lives, that is permanent, they will never come back and their families will always miss them.
But as far as the land, don't be surprised if someday Russia wants to sell it back for pennies on the dollar, sort of like how they sold Alaska. In this case they will likely give it up in order to get rid of some of the sanctions.
I do get tired of you cheering this war on, when you are not in it and neither are your family members. Lives lost can never be regained. There is no guarantee Ukraine can or could or will ever win territory back by keeping the war going until 2024.
Also, I don't believe the claim that Ukraine is only losing 1 soldier for 7 Russians. At the start of operation Barbarossa, when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, the Germans were eliminating 4 Soviets but only losing 1 in return. The Germans had superior weapons at the start and vastly superior training -- they were battle hardened. That did not last.
Ukraine is running out of men to fight in this war and we all should hope and pray for peace. Cheering on mass killing is horrible.
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Roscoe, agree.
And i did not intend to.imply you said ukraine was collasping over bakmut.
I was refering to the media sources that seem bent on making bakmut something crucial.
It was vrucial when RF held izum,but now they dont.
Honestly izum was just as pivoal as
Bakmut,the RF headquarted there.
As far as ukrainian loses i would view
Poposna and severdonetsk as much more crucial when they occured..
No worries mate.
I would urge you to watch cuffy's video he posted a few up from this. It gives quite a compelling argument as to why Bahkmut is so important. Sky news have been unequivocal in their support for Ukraine but this morning, they ran an article discussing the Bahkmut situation.
They almost criticise Zelensky for having the 'slavic" mindset of throwing bodies into hand to hand combat rather than listening to US military advice and staging a tactical withdrawal, which ironically they criticised and laughed at when Russia withdrew from Kherson.
They suggest that in the west, *we try to win by targeting infrastructure and beat moral rather than throwing bodies into the fire.....but Zelensky won't listen when it comes to Bahkmut.
Like we said, time will tell but Ukraine might have chewed their way through far more men and ammunition than was necessary. Yes Russia have had the same tactics but they have more bodies and bullets to burn through.
*I did laugh reading the article because they claim western military strategy focuses less on killing people and more on killing moral. That doesn't really stack up when it came to our conflicts abroad. 1 million dead Iraqi's for starters.
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Ukraine is reporting Russia losing 7 troop to their one in the present offensive.
Thank you for telling everyone that you're naive and blind to the realty of the situation on their ground. If you really believe everything in that post of yours, it's little wonder you appear to be living on another planet. :drunk:
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Honestly, i feel AFU has pulled most troops other than specialized urban units out of bakmut.
In that enviromentnit doesnt take thousands to really impade progrrss, it becomes slow tedious block to block .
Like soledar, there wernt.actually that many ukrainian forces there.
That said, it is absolutely from russian forces putting intense pressure in those areas and they are making.headway.
Ukraine is defending from.well.established fortified positions and their artillery has an elevation advantwge in current placements..
so.while i dont doubt ukraine has heavy loses , its without a doubt.russia does.
They are avoiding the urban block to block and trying to incircle, but every area of bakmut like that that they are attacking currently, they need to cross open fields againtbfortified trenches.
And artillery that can see every move.
The pic is a field north of bakmut.
The artillery hots are obvious.
The small lighter spots are all Kia russian soldiers , and if you.look at the.sat imsge there are a lot of them. One small field in the last few days.
The RF 155th ,i spoke about a day or so ago that was combined with the 40th?
But still rosgvardia needed to be sent in?
It was replaced today with the 136th.
Im.sure ukraime jas issues as well,and is smart.to keep.those tightly under.wraps.
But degending ones homeland within a few hours drive of where your family.resides,is far different than fighting in a foriegn country thats thousands of kilometers away from.your home or family .
There were.about.20.official protests to higher commsnd by RF units from.provicial russia this week.alone.
Its been all.over telegram.
Those guys sre getting fed up, thats not hype or media biad thats them.posting vids of their complaints to command.
I woukdnt want to be a ukrsnian in this mess, bit i certainly much rather not be a russian in this conflict.
I think on the ground there thats the same.sentiment ,and eventuslly thats going to.make a.difference.
To be fair yes ive seen a few ukrainian units posting complaints as well.
( it wouldnt let me attach the field photo.it was too big, you can trust that it is sad , looks like.WWI)
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The war is really very complex involving geopolitics of many nations not thought to be part of the war. This is about some of that complexity.
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Ukraine is reporting Russia losing 7 troop to their one in the present offensive.
Thank you for telling everyone that you're naive and blind to the realty of the situation on their ground. If you really believe everything in that post of yours, it's little wonder you appear to be living on another planet. :drunk:
In about eight weeks large Ukrainian offensive should start. This is the same thing I was told when I said Kherson would fall.
In Bakhmut describe the battle and why Ukraine stays there.
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The latest from Prof John Mearshiemer:
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The latest from Prof John Mearshiemer:
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Good link Cuffy, I agree with nearly everything the professor is telling us.
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Good link Cuffy, I agree with nearly everything the professor is telling us.
So you agree with Mearsheimer that Russia will turn Kiev to rubble? If so, I'm curious to know your opinion on when this is going to happen. Not trying to pin you down, just your thoughts... like weeks, or months, or years?
If they're waiting for western resolve to disintegrate it seems like that could take a while... at least months or maybe even years.
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No one is coming out of this senseless conflict a winner. Not Russia, the US and especially Ukraine. As it is, there’s a growing DC sentiment about curbing additional assistance to Ukraine. That country faces the reality of not only salvaging all it had lost in this proxy war, but the grim realization of being stooged to its demise. Large swat of its country had been bombed to stone age state, while its current leadership can and will retire in comfort and luxury.
Russia too gravely suffered devastating loss not only of its image but the loss both in lives and economy.
My bigger wish going forward is the world takes note the US, especially our current leaderships these past 20-25 years, had been nothing but a failure getting tens of millions of casualties the world over.
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No one is coming out of this senseless conflict a winner. Not Russia, the US and especially Ukraine. As it is, there’s a growing DC sentiment about curbing additional assistance to Ukraine. That country faces the reality of not only salvaging all it had lost in this proxy war, but the grim realization of being stooged to its demise. Large swat of its country had been bombed to stone age state, while its current leadership can and will retire in comfort and luxury.
Russia too gravely suffered devastating loss not only of its image but the loss both in lives and economy.
My bigger wish going forward is the world takes note the US, especially our current leaderships these past 20-25 years, had been nothing but a failure getting tens of millions of casualties the world over.
I've read somewhere that Zelensky already signed a deal with Blackrock for the re-construction of Ukraine.
So actually, you're wrong. As usual some immoral bankers will profit from the historic suffering of the average person.
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"I've read somewhere that Zelensky ..."
Now that is what I call a reliable source.
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Good link Cuffy, I agree with nearly everything the professor is telling us.
So you agree with Mearsheimer that Russia will turn Kiev to rubble? If so, I'm curious to know your opinion on when this is going to happen. Not trying to pin you down, just your thoughts... like weeks, or months, or years?
If they're waiting for western resolve to disintegrate it seems like that could take a while... at least months or maybe even years.
I agreed with most of it but not everything. I do believe that should Russia start to falter due to continued western investment, Russia might just get desperate and start to bring the place down so there is nothing left for the 'winners' to take. They'd have to be defeated for them to destroy Kiev though.
The whole thing is horrific but away from front line towns and cities, Russia haven't been reducing places to rubble or targeting civilians en mass. If they had, the casualties would be significantly worse than they've been reported.
Back a wild animal against a wall and all that.
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"I've read somewhere that Zelensky ..."
Now that is what I call a reliable source.
Zelensky actually announced this himself, live on air. He was quite proud and open about the "investment" and we all discussed it here, at the time.
Hence the suggestions of corruption, puppetry and profits in war.
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"I've read somewhere that Zelensky ..."
Now that is what I call a reliable source.
Yes, just like the "mainstream" media which you trust so much, when they say: "an unnamed source says that Trump colluded with Russia". Or, an unnamed source claims that "rogue Ukrainians damaged the Nordstream pipeline".
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"I've read somewhere that Zelensky ..."
Now that is what I call a reliable source.
Zelensky actually announced this himself, live on air. He was quite proud and open about the "investment" and we all discussed it here, at the time.
Hence the suggestions of corruption, puppetry and profits in war.
Tex proving once again that he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. :chuckle:
Here's a pretty good illustration of Congress putting war profiteering over American sovereignty and needs.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqnscZ2WYAE6GmC?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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"I've read somewhere that Zelensky ..."
Now that is what I call a reliable source.
Zelensky actually announced this himself, live on air. He was quite proud and open about the "investment" and we all discussed it here, at the time.
Hence the suggestions of corruption, puppetry and profits in war.
Tex proving once again that he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. :chuckle:
Here's a pretty good illustration of Congress putting war profiteering over American sovereignty and needs.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqnscZ2WYAE6GmC?format=jpg&name=900x900)
If Zelensky have would lost the election, what do you think would be different? These guys are simply pro-Russian trying to make Zelensky look bad. I am glad you posted a video because it makes is so obvious this is a propaganda video as reason for the assertion.
I guess the Chinese sold out to the USD as they wanted USA capital also at one time and still do. These guys are just trying to twist his effort to have foreign investment in the country. Nobody invests money without getting a return. Blackrock is an investment firm, one of the largest in the world. They have investments in nearly every country in the world. Zelensky job is to attract investment and get support for the war from allies. It is a concern that Blackrock is a problem for the USA because they are willing to invest in parts of the world we would rather not see USA money go. They have become so big they are a power of their own the USA cannot control.
There is this Russian inspired hate Zelensky effort to dis credit him to cause support of the war to decrease. Of course, you believe anything not mainstream to help the Russian cause. It is obviously these guys are part of that effort doing anything they can to make him look bad no attempt to report anything that is balanced news.
It is not very bright to say I read somewhere and then carry on. You do not have it all together with all your over belief in conspiracy theories. Contrarian does not mean your smart but rather you believe anything not mainstream no matter how dumb it is.
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If Zelensky have would lost the election, what do you think would be different? These guys are simply pro-Russian trying to make Zelensky look bad. I am glad you posted a video because it makes is so obvious this is a propaganda video as reason for the assertion.
You are seriously hard work and it takes time to constantly correct you.
You've dismissed the YouTube link as obvious propaganda but if you actually watched the link, you will see Zelemsky himself talking about the privatisation of Ukraine and the agreements in place with Blackrock, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs et al. This was the whole point of the link, not the thoughts of the blokes at the beginning.
If you don't know what these guys do for a living, google them and find out or get someone to explain it to you. That way you'll see the bigger picture....but I'll not hold my breath.
I'll help you further, Zelelnsky starts from about 1 minute in but I'm guessing your attention span didn't make it past the initial intro....if at all. If you are incapable of filtering out the folks in the intro because they're Russian propaganda tools (in your world), just watch the bit where your hero Zelensky tells us about the 'deals' for weapons, defence, construction and finance.....lol still lost Tex??
I cant help but laugh every time he talks about freedom, democracy, anti corruption and selling his whole country to the US.
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We spent a week in France recently at the house of a pal of mine who is involved in the construction industry, all huge projects, he has mostly been in the estimating QS type of roles most of his life. We were discussing the kind of money they can make right down the chain out of regular things like a block of apartments, a roof on a big warehouse, a new Tesco or whatever.
What it did bring home to me was the type of money to be made during the reconstruction of a place where conflict was. There will be astronomical life-changing amounts of money to be had for a lot of people. Better than winning the lottery for many of them. And that shower of cash starts out with the firms like Blackrock, and filters down through all the subbies and firms they engage, right down to the QS blokes like my pal. Who now has a big stone house in France with guest apartments, and no need to work again.
Rebuilding whatever remains of Ukraine will be like a lottery win for thousands of people.
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If Zelensky have would lost the election, what do you think would be different? These guys are simply pro-Russian trying to make Zelensky look bad. I am glad you posted a video because it makes is so obvious this is a propaganda video as reason for the assertion.
You are seriously hard work and it takes time to constantly correct you.
You've dismissed the YouTube link as obvious propaganda but if you actually watched the link, you will see Zelemsky himself talking about the privatisation of Ukraine and the agreements in place with Blackrock, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs et al. This was the whole point of the link, not the thoughts of the blokes at the beginning.
If you don't know what these guys do for a living, google them and find out or get someone to explain it to you. That way you'll see the bigger picture....but I'll not hold my breath.
I'll help you further, Zelelnsky starts from about 1 minute in but I'm guessing your attention span didn't make it past the initial intro....if at all. If you are incapable of filtering out the folks in the intro because they're Russian propaganda tools (in your world), just watch the bit where your hero Zelensky tells us about the 'deals' for weapons, defence, construction and finance.....lol still lost Tex??
I cant help but laugh every time he talks about freedom, democracy, anti corruption and selling his whole country to the US.
One has to wonder what kind of cut Zelensky is getting off of selling Ukrainians out. All of this war profiteering will come on the graves of hundreds of thousands of young men who gave their lives, all for a war which clearly could have and should have been preventable.
I think I saw a meme once or read an article, that wherever the US sticks it's beak into the affairs of another country, death and destruction follow. I'm thinking of the fact that we had something to do with Maidan in 2014 (I am being lazy, just to annoy Tex, but why should I search high and low for a source, when he won't believe it?).
I want to be clear that I personally still do not like Putin either, not in the least, for invading Ukraine. I remain convinced that if he had chosen a path of peace, even after he seized Crimea if he had not stirred up trouble in the Donbas, his legacy would be entirely different.
Hundreds of thousands of both Russian soldiers and Ukrainian soldiers would still be alive. Cities would not have been reduced to rubble. Children not harmed, killed or their parents killed.
War always has a much higher cost, regardless of the trickery of what war mongers say in the media. The same media was complicit in the theft of the election of the 2020 election from Trump. The same media colluded with dishonest "intelligence" officials in the US to claim that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
Most sane Americans and Europeans believe if Trump would have been President, this war would not have happened.
Elections really do have consequences.
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Good link Cuffy, I agree with nearly everything the professor is telling us.
So you agree with Mearsheimer that Russia will turn Kiev to rubble? If so, I'm curious to know your opinion on when this is going to happen. Not trying to pin you down, just your thoughts... like weeks, or months, or years?
If they're waiting for western resolve to disintegrate it seems like that could take a while... at least months or maybe even years.
I agreed with most of it but not everything. I do believe that should Russia start to falter due to continued western investment, Russia might just get desperate and start to bring the place down so there is nothing left for the 'winners' to take. They'd have to be defeated for them to destroy Kiev though.
The whole thing is horrific but away from front line towns and cities, Russia haven't been reducing places to rubble or targeting civilians en mass. If they had, the casualties would be significantly worse than they've been reported.
Back a wild animal against a wall and all that.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me because I can't really see Russia leveling Kiev. Perhaps Mearsheimer is being a bit dramatic. Or maybe he is alluding to how bad he thinks this thing is going to get.
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https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/03/28/2347235/norway-company-cant-produce-ukraine-ammunition-because-of-tiktok
So, Norway is producing ammonition for Ukraine to use, but now they can't expand because TikTok is building a datacenter and that is in the way of the ammo factory.
"We are concerned because we see our future growth is challenged by the storage of cat videos," Morten Brandtzaeg told the Financial Times.
:bow:
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This an editorial regarding the EU and NATO with regards to Ukraine by V. Pincuk. Stuff to think about regarding the West and Kiev. Food for thought.
The real definition of victory for Ukraine
For centuries, Ukrainians have fought for their independence. The current war is a continuation of this historic struggle. Today, Ukrainian heroes are dying for the cause of independence; it is this very cause that Russia is trying to deny and destroy.
How can we define independence? Of course, it means a country that is truly sovereign and controls all of its territory, but for Ukraine it means something more. For Ukraine, true independence will only be achieved when the country is secure and anchored in the West, its natural geographic, political, and strategic home. Genuine independence will only come with Ukraine as a member of the European Union and NATO.
EU and NATO membership are integral components of victory and must already become reality right at the moment the war ends. Ukraine’s international friends must provide sufficient weapons to create the circumstances where this becomes possible. But beyond military aid, they should also support Ukraine’s geopolitical goals. They must do so with a grand vision rather than incrementally. They must be ready for Ukrainian EU and NATO membership as soon as the fighting stops.
The terrible war we are currently experiencing is not primarily a fight over territory. This is true for both Russia and Ukraine. Russia’s main goal is not to take and annex a certain number of square miles from Ukraine. Russia wants to annihilate Ukraine as state; to make Ukrainians as a nation disappear.
For the Russian Empire, a free Ukraine poses an existential threat. Russia cannot tolerate the emergence of a post-Soviet, post-communist, Orthodox, Slavic country that is a successful, prosperous, free democracy and market economy. So the empire wants to drag us back to the past through war.
For Ukrainians, there is now a chance that their country will finally win its centuries-long fight for independence and become truly free. In past centuries, Ukrainians demonstrated the same bravery we see today, but they were alone in their fight against the empire. Today, the whole civilized world stands with Ukraine.
In order to be independent, Ukraine’s territorial integrity must be restored in line with the country’s internationally recognized 1991 borders. A tribunal for war criminals and reparations must also be established. But this will not create a truly independent Ukraine. For that to happen, Ukraine requires two more key steps.
First, Ukraine must receive credible security guarantees from the West that will prevent Russia from attacking again. Without such guarantees, there will be no real end to the war and no victory, just a pause. The second vital step is the radical reform of Ukraine’s institutions. This means the rule of law, democracy, and independent institutions. Freeing Ukraine from Russian occupation will not bring victory unless the country is also freed from the bad practices of the past.
Let’s address these steps one by one. The war has demonstrated that Ukraine needs NATO membership. Therefore, Ukrainian NATO membership must be an integral element of any lasting settlement. It is possible that security guarantees similar to NATO membership could serve as a pathway to this goal, if provided either by NATO itself or a coalition of countries.
In order to place radical institutional reforms on an irreversible path, Ukraine needs the country’s EU membership to be finalized or imminent by the end of the war. EU membership is not a substitute for reforms, but a necessary incentive for them. It is for Ukrainians to conduct reforms, while the EU role is to assess them and decide on integration. Experience has shown that the EU accession process is a uniquely powerful tool for radical institutional reform. And EU membership is the best insurance against a return to bad practices.
If these two goals are achieved, financial resources will flow to Ukraine. This will not only be in the form of international assistance and reparations, but also in terms of private investment. A free and secure Ukraine will enjoy very strong growth that will benefit all involved.
Many of Ukraine’s international friends agree the country’s security and institutional reforms are the first priority after victory. They acknowledge that EU and NATO membership should be on the agenda, but only after victory. I strongly disagree. These steps cannot wait until after victory; they are essential components of victory.
For Ukraine, true victory means security and reform. It means NATO and EU membership, or at the very least, iron-clad security guarantees along with key practical components of EU integration in place. Without these steps, there will be no victory.
The EU must strengthen its existing commitment to Ukrainian membership and implement it with unprecedented speed and political will. NATO accession must be on the agenda of the coming July 2023 NATO summit in Vilnius.
This will not be simple. Current EU and NATO regulations make speedy accession difficult. But at key moments in history, merely following the rules is insufficient. With the right political leadership, existing rules can be adjusted and new standards adopted to meet the needs of the moment.
Never in the history of the EU has a country served as such an inspiration for Europe or sacrificed so much for Europe. Never in the history of NATO has a country fought so bravely and sacrificed so many lives to defeat a deadly threat that also endangers NATO.
Now is not the time to ask yourself how much more can be done within the existing limits. Instead, the real question is: How do we get this right? If this is not the time to change existing practices and procedures, when is the right time?
My message to Western leaders is simple: If you get Ukraine right, you will not only save lives. You will also show the whole world that the Western alliance and the European Union are the future. And for you, too, this will be a real victory.
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For Ukraine, true independence will only be achieved when the country is secure and anchored in the West, its natural geographic, political, and strategic home. Genuine independence will only come with Ukraine as a member of the European Union and NATO.
EU and NATO membership are integral components of victory and must already become reality right at the moment the war ends.
The war has demonstrated that Ukraine needs NATO membership.
In order to place radical institutional reforms on an irreversible path, Ukraine needs the country’s EU membership to be finalized or imminent by the end of the war.
Many of Ukraine’s international friends agree the country’s security and institutional reforms are the first priority after victory. They acknowledge that EU and NATO membership should be on the agenda, but only after victory. I strongly disagree. These steps cannot wait until after victory; they are essential components of victory.
For Ukraine, true victory means security and reform. It means NATO and EU membership, or at the very least, iron-clad security guarantees along with key practical components of EU integration in place. Without these steps, there will be no victory.
We often hear power crazed cheerleading from inside the EU, safe and secure thousands of miles away from reality and this sort of stuff is no different. I've filtered the most alarming statements from your post and on their own, it's a bloody scary thought.
Hundreds of thousands of recruits with no military training are being sent to die on the front lines, forced recruitment across the country and EU, casualty figures being kept secret for good reason, battalion commanders talking about recruits leaving their posts en mass and coming down hard on deserters.
A whole generation of young men being wiped out of existence and a complete lack of empathy shown by the EU. Just keep the weapons flowing and the war ticking over.......
I assume they think that we're all stupid because they denied Ukraine was in line for EU/NATO membership and it was an unprovoked assault by Russia.....yet here we are listening to the EU talk bout EU/NATO membership and how Ukraine was always Western. If they really wanted peace then they would be sitting down talking about it no matter how difficult it was and if it was never about Ukraine being pulled from Russia's sphere of influence, then they wouldn't be dangling the carrot to keep the show going.
Sick b@stards.
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For Ukraine, true independence will only be achieved when the country is secure and anchored in the West, its natural geographic, political, and strategic home. Genuine independence will only come with Ukraine as a member of the European Union and NATO.
EU and NATO membership are integral components of victory and must already become reality right at the moment the war ends.
The war has demonstrated that Ukraine needs NATO
For Ukraine, true independence will only be achieved when the country is secure and anchored in the West, its natural geographic, political, and strategic home. Genuine independence will only come with Ukraine as a member of the European Union and NATO.
EU and NATO membership are integral components of victory and must already become reality right at the moment the war ends.
The war has demonstrated that Ukraine needs NATO membership.
In order to place radical institutional reforms on an irreversible path, Ukraine needs the country’s EU membership to be finalized or imminent by the end of the war.
Many of Ukraine’s international friends agree the country’s security and institutional reforms are the first priority after victory. They acknowledge that EU and NATO membership should be on the agenda, but only after victory. I strongly disagree. These steps cannot wait until after victory; they are essential components of victory.
For Ukraine, true victory means security and reform. It means NATO and EU membership, or at the very least, iron-clad security guarantees along with key practical components of EU integration in place. Without these steps, there will be no victory.
We often hear power crazed cheerleading from inside the EU, safe and secure thousands of miles away from reality and this sort of stuff is no different. I've filtered the most alarming statements from your post and on their own, it's a bloody scary thought.
Hundreds of thousands of recruits with no military training are being sent to die on the front lines, forced recruitment across the country and EU, casualty figures being kept secret for good reason, battalion commanders talking about recruits leaving their posts en mass and coming down hard on deserters.
A whole generation of young men being wiped out of existence and a complete lack of empathy shown by the EU. Just keep the weapons flowing and the war ticking over.......
I assume they think that we're all stupid because they denied Ukraine was in line for EU/NATO membership and it was an unprovoked assault by Russia.....yet here we are listening to the EU talk bout EU/NATO membership and how Ukraine was always Western. If they really wanted peace then they would be sitting down talking about it no matter how difficult it was and if it was never about Ukraine being pulled from Russia's sphere of influence, then they wouldn't be dangling the carrot to keep the show going.
Sick b@stards.
While I can not do anything about stupid, I see enough already. I assume the sick *snip* is V. Putin who began this stupity/insanity. Ukraine has suffered from losses, but not to the ratio of Russia.
As for independence of Ukraine that is up to the local population, but NATO or Russia do not to dictate the terms. For that matter neither my self or you. I would strongly suggest you learn the past history of Ukraine and its relationship to Russia. Maybe you would not be so cocky.
Thank you for confirming your ignorance, V. Pinchuk is Ukrainian a former member of the RADA.
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I'd suggest you re-read my post and fully understand the point I'm making about the EU.
I'm also interested to hear your theory about how Putin began this stupidity/insanity? I can only assume that you believe this all started early one morning back in Feb 2022 and Russia just randomly decided to attack Ukraine.
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The war between Ukraine and Russia has been going on for Hundreds of years. This is just the latest version of it. This current version started when Putin came to power. First, he had to rebuild Russia military to where he thought he could pull it off. He miscalculated a little and now this is where we are.
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This current version started when Putin came to power. First, he had to rebuild Russia militarily to where he thought he could pull it off. He miscalculated a little lot and now this is where we are.
Russia winning.
Only a small correction needed in the quote.
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This an editorial regarding the EU and NATO with regards to Ukraine by V. Pincuk. Stuff to think about regarding the West and Kiev. Food for thought.
YOU DID NOT PROVIDED ANYLINKS TO THE ARTICLE, NEITHER permission to copy the comments, by the copyright owner, a clear copyright infigement. Ah .... sorry these rules do not apply to you and only you can shout to wiz......!
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Wiz, my excuses I thought I pasted it. Will see if I can dig it up. (I closed the page.
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Wiz, my excuses I thought I pasted it. Will see if I can dig it up. (I closed the page.
Was easier to find than I thought/feared. This is a different source, open, but the same content.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/the-real-definition-of-victory-for-ukraine/
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Wiz, my excuses I thought I pasted it. Will see if I can dig it up. (I closed the page.
When you finish... then I suggest you listen ...if you understand the lnguage and you will find the predition and results of this latest American war......If you could read or understand the language in this video to find the truth about the UKR war...etc then you would NOT be very happy with the $81 Trilion he printed since taking over.........The hegemon is going poor. all in official American domentation.!
BTW are you aware that Biden Gov has more toilet paper than any previous PRESIDENT?
China is holding more of your external debt?
#ROMANOS: Collapse of Banks in a Ukrainian Background
At the Tip of the Spear - A. Lambropoulos - 29/3/23
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Wiz, my excuses I thought I pasted it. Will see if I can dig it up. (I closed the page.
When you finish... then I suggest you listen ...if you understand the lnguage and you will find the predition and results of this latest American war......If you could read or understand the language in this video to find the truth about the UKR war...etc then you would NOT be very happy with the $81 Trilion he printed since taking over.........The hegemon is going poor. all in official American domentation.!
BTW are you aware that Biden Gov has more toilet paper than any previous PRESIDENT?
China is holding more of your external debt?
#ROMANOS: Collapse of Banks in a Ukrainian Background
At the Tip of the Spear - A. Lambropoulos - 29/3/23
Wiz over an hour of this? You know you are the only Greek speaker present.
I am fairly certain between SVB and Kiev there is no connection. Further while NATO and the US did not play the game well. It is solely Russia that is to blame for this quagmire. Further by any metric Russia is not doing well in fact simply stated they are getting their asses kicked. For over 2 months the Russians have tried to capture Bakhmut, all they have to show is control of the outlying areas and thousands of dead soldiers.
Why not do a synopsis of the article or news reel and post that?
Yes China holds the most debt and J. Biden is well on his way to the top regarding US debt. Bravo!
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A fantastic piece, highlighting the utter hypocrisy when it comes to judging Russia. With such arrogance, it's little surprise that global powers outwith the West, struggle to find common ground with our leaders. The current atrocities have the finger prints of a proxy war whereas Iraq was brutality based on false allegations.
Yet we tend to use soft language in the media and re-tell the Iraq story as if we were the good guys. Well as it stands today, Iraq is much worse than whats happening in Ukraine but the hypocrisy continues and the 'global outrage' seemingly stratospheric. It's amazing what propaganda does for the sheep.
Bush did what Putin’s doing — so why is he getting away?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/3/28/putin-should-be-punished-so-must-bush
It was disgracefully dubbed “Operation Iraqi Freedom” by the invading United States military forces, but for millions of Iraqis around the world, it was anything but. What we did learn from the war is the abhorrent hypocrisy of labels in conflicts when viewed through a Western lens. This war has, as an Iraqi, plagued my thoughts daily since March 2003. It has left hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead, with millions of others displaced and their lives ruined.
Sadly, over the last 20 years, we have failed to see any accountability for the plethora of lies and false arguments by both former US President George W Bush and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s governments that led to an era-defining conflict.
Within a mere few days of US military action in Iraq, more than 15,000 Iraqis lost their lives in violent conflict as a result of Washington’s “shock and awe” tactic to overwhelm the country with its military might. To put this into context, and although one innocent life lost is one too many, the total death toll in Ukraine of non-combatants since the war began a year ago is an estimated 8,000 civilians.
Yet while Russia has been hit by sanctions by multiple Western nations and their allies, and the International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant against Putin, we saw none of this with the US, United Kingdom, Bush and Blair.
There’s little difference even between the language used by Bush and Putin before their respective wars. Ahead of the Iraq invasion, Bush used terms like “freedom”, “liberation” and “war on terror”. Putin similarly claimed he was liberating Ukraine and curbing “terrorism” in the region.
It was Bush, however, who did use incendiary weapons in Iraq in the form of white phosphorus in Fallujah, with children to this day suffering birth defects as a consequence of the lasting effects of the chemical. Yet far from facing accountability, Bush has been allowed to redefine his own narrative as an immigrant-loving artist.
Those who dared oppose the eight-year US occupation in Iraq were labelled as insurgents. Many were infamously tortured and sexually abused by US troops at the now notorious Abu Ghraib prison.
Similar resistance movements in Ukraine, however, are branded as heroic for standing up to Russian occupation. Ukrainians have been celebrated for making homemade Molotov cocktails as defence weapons, but when similar acts of resistance happened in Iraq or Palestine, the label “terrorist” was used. This racist double standard has been evident throughout the past year.
The touching acts of global solidarity with Ukraine —from Premier League football matches raising Ukrainian flags to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy giving a speech at the Golden Globes this year — were never on display for the victims of the brutal Iraq war.
The reason Iraq has witnessed decades worth of war is directly linked to Bush’s 2003 decision to invade a country that had already been ravaged by years of brutal sanctions. The death of innocent Iraqis matters just as much as the deaths of innocent Ukrainians. Just as Ukrainians deserve life and solidarity, so too do Iraqis.
Just as we should want Putin to be tried for his crimes, we should be demanding that Bush be charged for his. We cannot wait another 20 years.
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The part below really hits home because it's proof that perception and realty can be altered, if you throw enough sh!t at a wall. The media, our politicians, the self labeled experts and of course Zelensky have all been telling us that Russia have been intentionally targeting civilians. Like they've literally sat down and said let's kill as many innocent people as we can. Yet after 400 odd days of constant fighting, we're at around 8,000 innocent souls.
In comparison, 15,000 innocent souls were murdered by the US and coalition forces in a couple days in Iraq, yet where is the outrage in the west? Where are the politicians, self labeled experts, the media and the apologists squealing for war crimes and justice?? Ah silence. Is it because they have brown skin or is it because we're the good guys in the west?
Really sad stuff and its this kind of brain washing that makes it very difficult to have an objective discussion here on RUA with some members because in their head, it has to be the appointed villain, that is doing all the bad stuff.
Within a mere few days of US military action in Iraq, more than 15,000 Iraqis lost their lives in violent conflict as a result of Washington’s “shock and awe” tactic to overwhelm the country with its military might. To put this into context, and although one innocent life lost is one too many, the total death toll in Ukraine of non-combatants since the war began a year ago is an estimated 8,000 civilians.
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This is just my personal opinion the Middle East is an epic cluster fcuk. The United States should not be there and the concept of democracy building is a farce. To a large degree this includes Israel.
Let the sand eaters do things their own way. Might be painful but this has been the MO for centuries.
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Bush did what Putin’s doing — so why is he getting away?
Yes, you are so right!! Iraq is part of the USA now, so Russia making Ukraine part of Russia is the same thing. I like your logic. ???
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War will continue likely into 2024?
Highly likely. Ukraine is all-in and will fight to the death. Ukraine has faced down Russian genocide before. When called upon to explain the Slavic mindset to other Westerners, I am fond of saying, "They look like us, but they are not like us." The entire nation has been mobilized. Civilian volunteers work to support the war effort (https://time.com/6156886/ukrainian-citizens-mobilizing-against-russia/). Nobody has had to endure more of Russia's genocidal bullshit than Ukraine.
Just how many young men do you think that Ukraine has to expend their lives on this catastrophe?
All of them. They are fighting on their own land, for their existence as a people. Even former president Poroshenko, who is a billionaire and could be chilling, poolside, in Vegas or Dubai, stayed in Ukraine and participated in the defense during the siege of Kiev (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/02/25/petro-poroshenko-former-ukrainian-president-rifle-Kiev-newday-berman-vpx.cnn).
Russia has committed about 97% of it's military resources to Ukraine and Mr. "I can be in Kiev in a week" isn't near Kiev yet, more than 13 months later.
The United States has expended about 5% of its defense budget on Ukraine and forced Russia to endure massive casualties - nearly 200K men plus more than 40% of its armor.
The misbegotten Ukraine war has been a disaster for Russia.
How bad is it? Russia has to keep chirping about how it has nuclear weapons. Why? Because its army sucks and has been getting SMOKED by a country less than 1/3 of its size. And there is no scenario in which Russia uses nukes that Moscow does not wind up a smoking, glowing ruin. If it uses tactical nukes in Ukraine, its Black Sea fleet will be destroyed, it will be removed from Ukraine (including Crimea) and it will suffer whatever other punishments the United States decides to inflict on it.
What is Russia's future? We've already seen its economy starting to falter (https://archive.is/VGPxs). It's future, if it does not change course, is as China's bitch.
What good has this war brought Russia? Tens of thousands of its soldiers dead, its military exposed as a fraud. Even if it "wins" in Ukraine it will come at a hideous cost and they will be subject to continued harassment and suicide attacks by what will then become the Ukrainian Resistance.
Russia will be ostracized, and we will see a return to the Soviet economy.
Too bad that your son-in-law escaped Ukraine and isn't fighting, huh? Will he be going back to participate in the frontline?
I do not know the son-in-law, but I have been to Ukraine three times since the war started, and I can assure you, the Ukrainian men I met there were 100% committed to defending their homeland, to the death.
The pro-Russia crowd likes to touch themselves in the dark over Wagner's recent successes in Bakmut, but this war has been an abject failure for Russia.
Putin has brought us war in Europe in the 21st century, on a scale not seen since Hitler.
The latest from Prof John Mearshiemer
Mearshiemer is a Russian shill.
Rebuilding ... Ukraine will be like a lottery win for thousands of people.
Factual.
B/B
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Bush did what Putin’s doing — so why is he getting away?
Yes, you are so right!! Iraq is part of the USA now, so Russia making Ukraine part of Russia is the same thing. I like your logic. ???
Are you retarded?
I didn't write the article and that's not what he was implying. How did you survive to your age with this level of intelligence? Thankfully for you, breathing is an involuntary reflex.
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Bush did what Putin’s doing — so why is he getting away?
Yes, you are so right!! Iraq is part of the USA now, so Russia making Ukraine part of Russia is the same thing. I like your logic. ???
Are you retarded?
I didn't write the article and that's not what he was implying. How did you survive to your age with this level of intelligence? Thankfully for you, breathing is an involuntary reflex.
It’s called satire. . . than again?
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At the end of the day.....for America etc..Watching the latest on the Financial Markets.........
tiphat
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This is just my personal opinion the Middle East is an epic cluster fcuk. The United States should not be there and the concept of democracy building is a farce. To a large degree this includes Israel.
Let the sand eaters do things their own way. Might be painful but this has been the MO for centuries.
I largely agree and point out the true irony in Russia, Saudis, Iranians, BRICS and Zelensky 10%sky all agreeing to do some form of Belt and Road Agreements along with various Military Defense pacts with the CCP In Beijing China - these are the same Chinese Red Communists that harvest organs from Christians and Muslims in Chinese Communist Concentration Camps...
The BRICS+ Countries are suicidal fools inviting in a giant Communist Red Chinese Belt and Roads TROJAN HORSE packed with CCP Operatives who will eventually harvest the BRICS masses especially Muslims (Saudis & Iranians etc) and Ukrainian Christians for their money and their bodily internal organs to sell to the highest bidders customers of the massive Chinese Organ Transplant Medical Industrial complex.
A classic example of be careful what you wish for!
:8) :ROFL: tiphat :thumbsup: :smokin: :-X
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The misbegotten Ukraine war has been a disaster for Russia.
How bad is it? Russia has to keep chirping about how it has nuclear weapons. Why? Because its army sucks and has been getting SMOKED by a country less than 1/3 of its size. And there is no scenario in which Russia uses nukes that Moscow does not wind up a smoking, glowing ruin. If it uses tactical nukes in Ukraine, its Black Sea fleet will be destroyed, it will be removed from Ukraine (including Crimea) and it will suffer whatever other punishments the United States decides to inflict on it.
What is Russia's future? We've already seen its economy starting to falter (https://archive.is/VGPxs). It's future, if it does not change course, is as China's bitch.
The pro-Russia crowd likes to touch themselves in the dark over Wagner's recent successes in Bakmut, but this war has been an abject failure for Russia.
B/B
Nicely stated! Russia, the paper tiger, will limp away from Ukraine and turn east to beg.
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The misbegotten Ukraine war has been a disaster for Russia.
How bad is it? Russia has to keep chirping about how it has nuclear weapons. Why? Because its army sucks and has been getting SMOKED by a country less than 1/3 of its size. And there is no scenario in which Russia uses nukes that Moscow does not wind up a smoking, glowing ruin. If it uses tactical nukes in Ukraine, its Black Sea fleet will be destroyed, it will be removed from Ukraine (including Crimea) and it will suffer whatever other punishments the United States decides to inflict on it.
What is Russia's future? We've already seen its economy starting to falter (https://archive.is/VGPxs). It's future, if it does not change course, is as China's bitch.
The pro-Russia crowd likes to touch themselves in the dark over Wagner's recent successes in Bakmut, but this war has been an abject failure for Russia.
B/B
Nicely stated! Russia, the paper tiger, will limp away from Ukraine and turn east to beg.
Don’t be pathetic.
There is nothing to limp away from for a real or a paper tiger.
At this time, the Ukraine does not exist as an independent state DE FACTO.
Anyone can swallow this territory, even Texan…. He seems to be a real tiger to me….
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It would be a real country, if Russia would mind its own business and stop meddling in Ukraine.
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Ok let's have a few facts. What make Ukraine not a real country except Putin saying it is not and then going there and killing everyone? There are some who say Russia is not a real country but rather just a criminal organization with a nuclear button.
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The pro-Russia crowd likes to touch themselves in the dark over Wagner's recent successes in Bakmut, but this war has been an abject failure for Russia.
Wagner group is going through a serious transformation at this time.
No matter what the story is, Russian oligarchs will never invest money in the West or keep money in Switzerland banks.
The investment will be in Wagner or whatever groups.
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Ok let's have a few facts. What make Ukraine not a real country except Putin saying it is not and then going there and killing everyone? There are some who say Russia is not a real country but rather just a criminal organization with a nuclear button.
You seem to be a little lost in the virtual reality.
I understand that Russian/Ukrainian war is a some kind of a video game for elderly Americans.
They are ready to pay a high price to watch a real death and torture recorder on video, and have a final chance to be patriotic before they die in skilled nursing facility.
I am not sorry to disappoint you.
You are just piece of shit without human vision that thrives on other people suffering.
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It would be a real country, if Russia would mind its own business and stop meddling in Ukraine.
You are doing much better in identifying genres…..
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Ok let's have a few facts. What make Ukraine not a real country except Putin saying it is not and then going there and killing everyone? There are some who say Russia is not a real country but rather just a criminal organization with a nuclear button.
You are just piece of shit without human vision that thrives on other people suffering.
And you are just a piece of s**t that thrives on geocide.
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Ok let's have a few facts. What make Ukraine not a real country except Putin saying it is not and then going there and killing everyone? There are some who say Russia is not a real country but rather just a criminal organization with a nuclear button.
You are just piece of shit without human vision that thrives on other people suffering.
And you are just a piece of s**t that thrives on geocide.
In addition to enjoying Russian/Ukrainian war, you have a Ukrainian woman wiping your ass….
Classic case!
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Yikes! You people have me ducking for cover! Come on friends, lighten up and be kind.
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Ok let's have a few facts. What make Ukraine not a real country except Putin saying it is not and then going there and killing everyone? There are some who say Russia is not a real country but rather just a criminal organization with a nuclear button.
You are just piece of shit without human vision that thrives on other people suffering.
And you are just a piece of s**t that thrives on geocide.
In addition to enjoying Russian/Ukrainian war, you have a Ukrainian woman wiping your ass….
Classic case!
I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you must have early dementia. I was not planning to bring her here until the war.
She goes to work and I seldom see her. But facts do not matter in this. She works nights and is asleep when I get up to go to work. Then when she comes home, I am sleep. She sleeps in the other room so she can sleep be on different schedules. So please explain what classic wiping my ass is? She does not make my meals or clean my room. So, I do not know what you mean.
No one is wanting to go to Russia and kill anyone. Just the genocidal Nazis of Russia want to go to Ukraine and destroy them.
All you are doing here is making babbling type of personal attacks that have no basis. If I ask why you say that, then you get angry and start babbling more.
I never meant to start off with personal insults but only to reply to the level of insult you started. After this I feel sorry for your husband. His life has got to be worse than the Ukrainians fighting in Bakhmut.
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Yikes! You people have me ducking for cover! Come on friends, lighten up and be kind.
You are too young and too wealthy to know that some “friends“ are not friends at all.
It's like impossible to stay kind when shooting people from so admired by you weapons.
But just for your peace, I put Texan back to ignore button…
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It would be a real country, if Russia would mind its own business and stop meddling in Ukraine.
Funny how that works eh? If Europe/USA had butted out of Ukraine, there would be no war today.
Although the ukr. nazi's problem was a real problem. Thats at least one problem solved now.
I rather doubt Russia will go home, without completing its objectives. Those stated are nearly done, so then remains the unstated (and some believe conquering ALL of ukraine is amongst the unstated objectives, but I don't believe that or they would've closed all of ukraines borders so no western weapons can enter as easily as they do now.).
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Yikes! You people have me ducking for cover! Come on friends, lighten up and be kind.
You are too young and too wealthy to know that some “friends“ are not friends at all.
It's like impossible to stay kind when shooting people from so admired by you weapons.
But just for your peace, I put Texan back to ignore button…
I will not challenge what you say, but I will add to it that I am grateful every day that no one is shooting in my direction. I have much to live for, and so too do the Russian and Ukrainian soldiers whose blood is spilling daily. It’s devastating.
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That’s what happening at this time in Kiev.
The Ukrainian authorities decided to evict the monks from the Kiev Pechersk Lavra. Believers block access to the shrine
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‘В последний год Киев организовал самую масштабную в новейшей истории страны волну гонений на Украинскую Православную Церковь УПЦ, к которой причисляют себя миллионы верующих. При поддержке властей ПЦУ проводит рейдерские захваты храмов, националисты и раскольники нападают на духовенство и верующих, в храмах и монастырях, у священников и епископов проходят обыски, их обвиняют в «антиукраинской деятельности».
На минувшей неделе Управление Верховного комиссара ООН по правам человека опубликовало доклад о свободе религии на Украине, в котором выразило обеспокоенность дискриминацией в отношении УПЦ.”
"In the last year, Kiev organized the largest wave of persecution of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church UOC in the recent history of the country, to which millions of believers consider themselves. With the support of the authorities, the UOC conducts raider seizures of churches, nationalists and schismatics attack clergy and believers, churches and monasteries, priests and bishops are searched, they are accused of "anti-Ukrainian activities".
Last week, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights published a report on freedom of religion in Ukraine expressing concern about discrimination against the UOC."
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Шевченковский районный суд Киева отправил настоятеля Киево-Печерской лавры митрополита Павлу под домашний арест на два месяца.
Как сообщило украинское издание «Страна», священнослужитель будет находиться под домашним арестом с применением электронного браслета. При этом суд отказал ему в посещении богослужений в Киево-Печерской лавре. Настоятеля подозревают по двум статьям: «Разжигание межрелигиозной вражды» и «Оправдание агрессии России».
Патриарх Московский и всея Руси Кирилл ранее назвал «чудовищным деянием» предписание властей к монахам покинуть Киево-Печерскую лавру, которая у православных христиан считается одним из земных уделов Богородицы. Он обратился к предстоятелям поместных православных церквей, папе римскому Франциску, Генеральному секретарю ООН Антониу Гутерришу, а также другим религиозным лидерам и представителям международных организаций с посланиями, в которых призвал приложить все усилия, чтобы не допустить изгнания монахов и принудительного закрытия монастыря. Папа Франциск также выразил беспокойство из-за ситуации с лаврой и призвал «вовлеченные в войну стороны уважать религиозные места».
The Shevchenkovsky District Court of Kiev sent the rector of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra Metropolitan Pavel under house arrest for two months.
According to the Ukrainian publication "Country", the priest will be under house arrest with the use of an electronic bracelet. At the same time, the court refused him to attend divine services in the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra. The rector is suspected under two articles: "Incitement to interreligious enmity" and "Equittal of Russia's aggression."
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia previously called "monstrous act" the instruction of the authorities to the monks to leave the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra, which is considered one of the earthly destinies of the Virgin among Orthodox Christians. He addressed the Primate of the local Orthodox Churches, Pope Francis, UN Secretary-General António Guterres, as well as other religious leaders and representatives of international organizations with messages calling for every effort to prevent the expulsion of monks and the forced closure of the monastery. Pope Francis also expressed concern about the situation with the Lavra and called on "the parties involved in the war to respect religious places."
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It's bizarre what they are doing to churches in what currently remains of Ukraine. The Orthodox Church represents a threat to exactly nobody.
But this is a country where opposition politicians are removed and their assets stolen, media organisations closed down and a place that celebrates Bandera and Nazis.
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It is the Russian Orthodox church caught spying and supporting the Russian war effort. Just a few details missing from the Russian propaganda article.
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It is the Russian Orthodox church caught spying and supporting the Russian war effort. Just a few details missing from the Russian propaganda article.
:ROFL:
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It is the Russian Orthodox church caught spying and supporting the Russian war effort. Just a few details missing from the Russian propaganda article.
:ROFL:
Once again Rosco to dumb to contribute so he just trools.
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I think it is none of the above, since 2019 there has been a simmering difference of opinion between President Zelensky the head of the Ukraine church and different factions within the church (I think Metropololitan) have been brewing, sadly it has come to a head.
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It's bizarre what they are doing to churches in what currently remains of Ukraine. The Orthodox Church represents a threat to exactly nobody.
But this is a country where opposition politicians are removed and their assets stolen, media organisations closed down and a place that celebrates Bandera and Nazis.
Yes and Russia celebrates Stalin and Beria.
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It is the Russian Orthodox church caught spying and supporting the Russian war effort. Just a few details missing from the Russian propaganda article.
:ROFL:
Once again Rosco to dumb to contribute so he just trools.
Or its just the NAZI all over again, but this time substitute Jews for U.O.C and you're complete.
First, the ROC no longer exist in Ukraine, they broke away from that when the war started and renamed to U.O.C (ukrainian orthodox church).
Chasing down people based on belief was a very bad idea in World-war 2 , and it still is.
Blaming some priests for associating with Russia, is simply abhorrent.
Next they're going to chase down gay for being Pro-Russian? or children? or ?????
If they're going down that path, better give up cause you've lost.
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It is the Russian Orthodox church caught spying and supporting the Russian war effort. Just a few details missing from the Russian propaganda article.
:ROFL:
Once again Rosco to dumb to contribute so he just trools.
Or its just the NAZI all over again, but this time substitute Jews for U.O.C and you're complete.
First, the ROC no longer exist in Ukraine, they broke away from that when the war started and renamed to U.O.C (ukrainian orthodox church).
Chasing down people based on belief was a very bad idea in World-war 2 , and it still is.
Blaming some priests for associating with Russia, is simply abhorrent.
Next they're going to chase down gay for being Pro-Russian? or children? or ?????
If they're going down that path, better give up cause you've lost.
Tex, Mark makes a valid point, worth considering.
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Or its just the NAZI all over again, but this time substitute Jews for U.O.C and you're complete.
First, the ROC no longer exist in Ukraine, they broke away from that when the war started and renamed to U.O.C (ukrainian orthodox church).
Chasing down people based on belief was a very bad idea in World-war 2 , and it still is.
Blaming some priests for associating with Russia, is simply abhorrent.
Next they're going to chase down gay for being Pro-Russian? or children? or ?????
If they're going down that path, better give up cause you've lost.
The real Nazi are in Russia that started this war. Nobody in Ukraine wants Russia's help. That is why Russia is losing. They gays are being tracked down in Russia.
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Valadlen Tatarsky pro Russian blogger killed in St Peterburg. One less NAZI in this world.
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The real Nazi are in Russia that started this war. Nobody in Ukraine wants Russia's help. That is why Russia is losing. They gays are being tracked down in Russia.
The gays are equally chased down and humiliated, abused , beaten etc. in Ukraine, there's no difference there.
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Valadlen Tatarsky pro Russian blogger killed in St Peterburg. One less NAZI in this world.
Yeah good riddance.
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It is the Russian Orthodox church caught spying and supporting the Russian war effort. Just a few details missing from the Russian propaganda article.
:ROFL:
Once again Rosco to dumb to contribute so he just trools.
*is too dumb
*Trolls
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Tex there are times I truly wonder if you are able to reason and analyze. Mark and Roscoe may be of different opinions on matters, but generally they figure things out and can think.
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The war likely decided in Melitopol. Bakhmut only important to Russia. Russia choses to fight there because that is where the Russian Army has the best logistics. It needs to win something for political reasons. Ukraine is now preparing for offensive. Of course, they have not given me any details but expect it to start by end of month when ground is dry enough. Melitopol a likely target but there could be a surprise and it will be somewhere else. Ukraine just received fuel trucks and other gear to support the logistics for an offensive.
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The war likely decided in Melitopol. Bakhmut only important to Russia. Russia choses to fight there because that is where the Russian Army has the best logistics. It needs to win something for political reasons. Ukraine is now preparing for offensive. Of course, they have not given me any details but expect it to start by end of month when ground is dry enough. Melitopol a likely target but there could be a surprise and it will be somewhere else. Ukraine just received fuel trucks and other gear to support the logistics for an offensive.
if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
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The war likely decided in Melitopol. Bakhmut only important to Russia. Russia choses to fight there because that is where the Russian Army has the best logistics. It needs to win something for political reasons. Ukraine is now preparing for offensive. Of course, they have not given me any details but expect it to start by end of month when ground is dry enough. Melitopol a likely target but there could be a surprise and it will be somewhere else. Ukraine just received fuel trucks and other gear to support the logistics for an offensive.
if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
The kill ratio favors Ukraine very much. Ukraine likely to leave city as soon as the kill ratio drops.
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The war likely decided in Melitopol. Bakhmut only important to Russia. Russia choses to fight there because that is where the Russian Army has the best logistics. It needs to win something for political reasons. Ukraine is now preparing for offensive. Of course, they have not given me any details but expect it to start by end of month when ground is dry enough. Melitopol a likely target but there could be a surprise and it will be somewhere else. Ukraine just received fuel trucks and other gear to support the logistics for an offensive.
if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
The kill ratio favors Ukraine very much. Ukraine likely to leave city as soon as the kill ratio drops.
perhaps, but reports and estimates I have seen put the casualty rates in the obscene category for both sides. some of the experts I have been viewing have said that the Russian military is there for the same reason, to kill Ukrainians. though, most vids I have been watching, do not understand the importance of Bakhmut for either side.
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We will see who is right in the next coming two or three months. Ukraine is expecting to have large offensive in the south to fight for ground that is really important and, in an effort to cut the Russian land bridge. Most of the Ukraine army has been preparing for this effort. The equipment is mostly already in Ukraine, but some is still coming in. Russia army had too many troops and equipment so the needed to have losses so Russia would culminate and not be a in strong position for counter this offensive. The winter offensive Russia had planned was mostly a failure and instead of taking large parts of Ukraine territory took a few km along part of the eastern front at huge cost. Soon we will see if it all worked or not as the Ukraine's third offensive will begin. There is a big part of the Ukraine army near Bakhmut but most of it is not in the city but rather on standby. They are there to keep the supplies lines open and keep it so forces can retreat when needed to keep from having huge losses. From what I am reading Ukraine is planning to give up the city, but it is still useful for now.
An example Ukraine just gave up some ground in Bakhmut that had a number of buildings in it. When the Russians moved in, they had all the buildings wired, blew them up as you would see in building demolition thus destroying any cover the Russian would have had, then machine gunned all survivors. There was a main capital building in the center of the city. When Ukraine left it Russians went to the top of the building to put a flag on it when it too was blown up to the point of being just small chunks of cement. When this is done there is no cover for Wagner forces, so they have huge losses trying to get the next group of buildings.
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...... Ukraine just gave up some ground in Bakhmut that had a number of buildings in it. When the Russians moved in, they had all the buildings wired, blew them up as you would see in building demolition thus destroying any cover the Russian would have had, then machine gunned all survivors. .....
Who did what??? Your grammar isn't very good.
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Recent reports by Ukraine senior military staff in candid reports to the Pentagon indicates that Ukraine has taken much heavier casualties than reported in USA and EU propaganda media so as not to SHOCK the American and EU people as to the true horrors of this war which would reduce public support.
Zalensky 10%sky ordered Teens and Older men be rounded up by SBU secret police in Odessa and Lvov etc., Cafes and shown how to pull a trigger and shoot rifles alien to them then sent them into the Jaws of Death in Bakhmut where estimates of 80,000 incremental deaths of untrained Ukrainians have suffered just like Stalin ordered waves of Russians to rush Nazi Machine guns to make the Nazis run out of ammo in the brutal battle of Stalingrad - seems Zalensky fancies himself as the Stalin of Ukraine by sending more than 400,000 Ukrainian young men and mature older men to their Deaths rushing Russian Artillery in a horrific War of Attrition across the full lines of contact.
Back Channels from Moscow are Russia has deployed BOTH tactical and strategic ICBM Hypersonic Nukes to Belarus and WILL use them if NATO NUKE WAR MONGERS escalate with more advanced weapons and large NATO/US/Polish etc., troop formations (300,000 Plus on the Poland/Ukraine Border) in an effort to defeat Russia in Ukraine and then in Moscow to fragment the Russian Federation the same way the Soviet Union fragmented and dissolved.
Time to work on our Bucket Lists before we all die from high altitude nuclear fallout - or be vaporized by direct Thermo-Nuclear explosions or worse drown in a Nuclear Tidal wave via the new diabolical Russian Poseidon's Revenge 100 Megaton thermo-nuclear mega torpedoes.
As Bruce Willis would say Yippee Aye Yeah Mutha Fukkas!
[attachimg=1]
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Hear the warning CIA chief gave to Zelensky in a secret meeting...
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Hear the warning CIA chief gave to Zelensky in a secret meeting...
This quote is complete disinformation and is the only reason for issuing the report:
***************************************************************************************
”What the US seems to believe now is that Russia is in fact preparing for a potential major offensive and they want president Zelinsky of course to be ready for that and to have all of the information that he needs including of course key intelligence to be able to uh, position troops and be able to fight back.”
What it means is that the US wants more action but ain’t getting enough of it from Ukraine so they’re pumping up the “imminent danger” rhetoric on the same lines as the thousands upon thousands of Iraki WMD s poised to obliterate the Democratic free world.
NOTES on the above quote:
* “SEEMS to believe” means what exactly?
* “Is IN FACT” preparing means it’s been proven?
* “for a POTENTIAL MAJOR OFFENSIVE” ….. uhhhh how is “IN FACT” coupled with a “POTENTIAL”?
ADDITIONAL NOTE:
The CIA can lick the exit valve of my digestive plumbing.
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Meanwhile in Dutch press:
Before: Crimea is ours, ours, ours,. Crimea is ours, we will retake Crimea, never will we yield.
Today:
source : https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2082889465/live-kiev-ziet-ruimte-voor-onderhandelingen-willen-best-praten-over-toekomst-krim
Top advisor Zelensky: 'Space for negotiating Crimea'
My guess is that Andri Sybiha will be out of a job soon :money:
Translated by Google, with minor corrections from me:
A top adviser to European President Zelensky has indicated that the negotiations in Kiev over Crimea have not been concluded. After victories on the battlefield, Ukraine would like to settle the future of the best possible at the negotiating table.
"If we succeed in achieving our strategic goals on the battlefield and we are at the administrative border of Crimea, we are ready to open a diplomatic channel to discuss this issue," said Andri Sybiha, an adviser to President Zelensky. to the Financial Times. “That does not mean that we exclude liberation by our army”.
Sybiha, a seasoned diplomat whom Zelensky relies primarily on , for his foreign policy, hints at an offensive that will require Ukraine to liberate its southern coast. Cutting the land bridge between the Donbas in eastern Ukraine and Crimea, which Russia supposedly occupied in 2014, is seen as the most strategic blow Ukraine could deal to Russia.
But a problem comes from Ukraine and can continue towards Crimea. The liberation of Crimea is seen by experts from the perspective as an almost impossible task, especially without a significant navy and without superiority in the air.
Many analysts think that before the liberation of Crimea, the West will still hold on to the brakes, for example with arms support, because Putin sees Crimea as such an inseparable part of Russia that nuclear weapons will come into view if Russian control over it is seen as insecure .
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Hear the warning CIA chief gave to Zelensky in a secret meeting...
This quote is complete disinformation and is the only reason for issuing the report:
***************************************************************************************
The only way to tell the real information from the dis information is to wait and see what happens. There is a lot of people out there that their only job is to run a smear campaign against the west. In Ukraine this summer will tell a lot. It seems most information has some dis information with it and most dis information has some information. Sorting out the gray can be difficult.
Markje post about Zelensky has little on how the war will end. This is his starting point to where he wants to start to negotiate any piece deal. Reality on the ground will make the real terms. Russia said they will not consider any peace deal that does not include a different world order. So, we are not close on a peace deal yet. I think a lot will happen this summer so maybe by the end of the summer a few things will change. Or maybe not.
Zelensky has to gets his troops excited about the war and give them a cause to fight for. So, what do you think he is supposed to say. Do you think his troops will get excited about how much land is going to give away? No matter what Zelensky does, at this time Russia does not want a peace deal that does not give them control of all Ukraine and it has to destroys Nato.
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if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
Soledar and Bakhmut have massive underground structures both mines and made from concrete. Asovstal was built by USSR to function even during nuclear war, not just regular war. To lose both cities mean that underground war is over. Actually, it means that this war will be pretty much over soon.
This is quote from the paper:
“Salt and gypsum mines form a huge underground "web" in the area of Soledar and Bakhmut. This was mentioned, in particular, in one of his relatively recent reports by the head of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin: "The system of Soledar and Bakhmut mines is actually a network of underground cities. In which there is not only a crowd of people at a depth of 80-100 m, but also tanks and infantry fighting vehicles move. And weapons stockpiles have been stored since the First World War."
I am posting the video that shows just one factory in Bakmut located 80 meters under ground that produces wine. It’s just a small screenshot of those structures. I am sure the more serious objects are not allowed to record on video. Ask your wife to translate.
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sorry, it's duplication of the post
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if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
Soledar and Bakhmut have massive underground structures both mines and made from concrete. Asovstal was built by USSR to function even during nuclear war, not just regular war. To lose both cities mean that underground war is over. Actually, it means that this war will be pretty much over soon.
This is quote from the paper:
“Salt and gypsum mines form a huge underground "web" in the area of Soledar and Bakhmut. This was mentioned, in particular, in one of his relatively recent reports by the head of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin: "The system of Soledar and Bakhmut mines is actually a network of underground cities. In which there is not only a crowd of people at a depth of 80-100 m, but also tanks and infantry fighting vehicles move. And weapons stockpiles have been stored since the First World War."
I am posting the video that shows just one factory in Bakmut located 80 meters under ground that produces wine. It’s just a small screenshot of those structures. I am sure the more serious objects are not allowed to record on video. Ask your wife to translate.
Some have an odd idea of what victory looks like. If Bakhmut is your metric then you have a much better understanding of V. Putin‘s and Russia’s goals. Let the Russians live like rats in their underground nest.
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if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
Soledar and Bakhmut have massive underground structures both mines and made from concrete. Asovstal was built by USSR to function even during nuclear war, not just regular war. To lose both cities mean that underground war is over. Actually, it means that this war will be pretty much over soon.
This is quote from the paper:
“Salt and gypsum mines form a huge underground "web" in the area of Soledar and Bakhmut. This was mentioned, in particular, in one of his relatively recent reports by the head of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin: "The system of Soledar and Bakhmut mines is actually a network of underground cities. In which there is not only a crowd of people at a depth of 80-100 m, but also tanks and infantry fighting vehicles move. And weapons stockpiles have been stored since the First World War."
I am posting the video that shows just one factory in Bakmut located 80 meters under ground that produces wine. It’s just a small screenshot of those structures. I am sure the more serious objects are not allowed to record on video. Ask your wife to translate.
Some have an odd idea of what victory looks like. If Bakhmut is your metric then you have a much better understanding of V. Putin‘s and Russia’s goals. Let the Russians live like rats in their underground nest.
I can only laugh…..
You did not want negotiation. Accept the loss in a hard way!!!
It only the beginning of the Victory.
Happy Easter!
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if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
Soledar and Bakhmut have massive underground structures both mines and made from concrete. Asovstal was built by USSR to function even during nuclear war, not just regular war. To lose both cities mean that underground war is over. Actually, it means that this war will be pretty much over soon.
This is quote from the paper:
“Salt and gypsum mines form a huge underground "web" in the area of Soledar and Bakhmut. This was mentioned, in particular, in one of his relatively recent reports by the head of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin: "The system of Soledar and Bakhmut mines is actually a network of underground cities. In which there is not only a crowd of people at a depth of 80-100 m, but also tanks and infantry fighting vehicles move. And weapons stockpiles have been stored since the First World War."
I am posting the video that shows just one factory in Bakmut located 80 meters under ground that produces wine. It’s just a small screenshot of those structures. I am sure the more serious objects are not allowed to record on video. Ask your wife to translate.
Some have an odd idea of what victory looks like. If Bakhmut is your metric then you have a much better understanding of V. Putin‘s and Russia’s goals. Let the Russians live like rats in their underground nest.
I can only laugh…..
You did not want negotiation. Accept the loss in a hard way!!!
It only the beginning of the Victory.
Happy Easter!
It is difficult to negotiate with the school yard bully. It will be a matter of wait and see. I would point out that Ukraine has not started their counter offensiive and is wearing down the Russian forces.
Easter in Ukraine and Russia is next week,
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Russia 'destroys Ukrainian ammo warehouses'
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-destroys-ukrainian-ammo-warehouses/ar-AA19DtGi
"Russia has destroyed a depot containing 70,000 tonnes of fuel near the southeastern Ukrainian city of Zaporozhye, the Russian defence ministry said on Sunday. It also said Russian forces had destroyed Ukraine army warehouses storing missiles, ammunition and other artillery weapons in the Zaporozhye and Donetsk regions."
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Our new house cleaner is a Ukrainian lady who used to work as a hair dresser in Kharkov. She was having coffee and a chat with my wife in Russian on Friday and they got talking about life in Ukraine. The wife told me that evening, that the cleaner admitted to their being a Nazi issue in Ukraine and that people speaking Russian rather than Ukrainian were getting hounded out.
Her hairdressing shop had a sign/logo with some kind of association with Russia and her shop was attacked and their business closed. She and all her family are Ukrainian. Her husband is in the forces and she's over here with her 16 year old son. It sounds like there's more truth in the Russian allegations, than our media would want us to believe.....although that's just the account of one lady of course.
*for some reason it wont let me spell Kharkov correctly. The i is automatically shown to be an o.
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Yes you read that correctly.
Our western press have now tried to shove a bit of the alphabet narrative into the conflict, with claims from the Economist that Ukrainian gay soldiers are fighting Russia for their rights. Because Ukraine has always been so progressive when it comes to stuff like that and the right wing nazi mob love a parade Lol
I wish I were making this up but alas.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/04/05/ukraines-gay-soldiers-fight-russia-and-for-their-rights
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Odd how the pro-Russian faction will not discuss this inconvenient reality. From ISW the article is well footnoted, here is the gist of the report.
Russian authorities systematically repress religious liberty in Russia as a matter of state policy. Russian President Vladimir Putin ratified the “Yarovaya Law” in 2016 requiring all religious organizations and churches in Russia to be registered with the Russian government. The law bans “missionary activities,” broadly defined as preaching, praying, disseminating religious materials, and even answering questions about religion outside of officially state-approved sites under the pretense of precautions against “extremism” and “terrorism.” The Russian government refuses to register undesirable religious organizations it seeks to suppress. Since 2016 Russian authorities have used the Yarovaya Law‘s sweeping provisions to prosecute American Baptist and Pentecostal missionaries operating in Russia, outlaw most Mormon missionary work, and burn foreign-distributed Bibles not properly registered with the state.[7] Russian authorities have persecuted several other Russian religious minorities, including members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Falun Gong members, Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah‘s Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Old Believers (Pomorian Old Orthodox), Lutherans, the Ukrainian Reformed Orthodox Church, and the branch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR).[8] Russian authorities jailed at least 48 Russian Jehovah‘s Witnesses in 2022, arrested and deported two American Mormon missionaries in 2019, and fined a Sochi-based Buddhist leader for organizing "collective meditation" for "about a dozen" people in 2019.Russian authorities have also targeted Russian Muslims for ”illegal missionary activities” despite the fact that Islam is legally recognized as one of Russia’s ”traditional religions” (along with Russian Orthodoxy, Judaism and Buddhism).
Russia is exporting its state policies of systematic religious persecution to Russian-occupied Ukraine. The Kremlin annexed Russian-controlled portions of Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia oblasts on September 30, 2022, recognizing them as Russian federal subjects.[11] Russian authorities enforce Russian federal laws – including the Yarovaya and other “anti-extremist” laws – in Russian-occupied Ukraine. Russia’s Prosecutor General’s Office declared four evangelical Christian groups from Latvia and Ukraine "undesirable" organizations in 2021, effectively banning the organizations in Russia.[12] Russian authorities in occupied Melitopol raided a Ukrainian evangelical pastor’s home in August 2022 and accused the pastor of being associated with the same undesirable organizations that Russian authorities banned in Russia 2021.[13] The Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs in occupied Kherson Oblast reported that it eliminated an underground Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Novosofivka, Kherson Oblast, in January 2023.[14] The officials reported that Russian authorities found over 4,000 pieces of “forbidden literature” in the Jehovah’s Witnesses' possession and emphasized that Russian law designates Jehovah’s Witnesses as an extremist organization banned in Russia.[15] A Ukrainian Baptist congregation in Chernihivka regained permission to use its seized building after the congregants sent deed documents to Russian occupation authorities - possibly as part of the church’s reregistration under the Yarovaya. Law.
Russian occupation officials have been repressing Ukrainian religious communities in proxy republics in eastern Ukraine and in illegally occupied Crimea since 2014. Former Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Oleksandr Zakharchenko declared in May 2015 that Ukrainian Orthodox Church (OCU) members, Greek Catholics, and Evangelical Christians were “sectarians” within the DNR.[17] Zakharchenko announced that occupation authorities would only recognize the Russian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate, Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism. Occupation authorities forced many religious groups to reregister under the Russian Yarovaya law, bureaucratically eradicating religions such as Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Muslim group Hizb ut-Tahir.[18] A Russian court ordered the only remaining Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Russia to be demolished at the expense of the Ukrainian diocese in 2019.
Moscow’s religious persecution campaign seeks to eradicate the Autocephalous (independent) Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU), which Moscow views as schismatic despite the decision by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople in 2019 granting the Ukrainian Orthodox Church its independence from the Moscow Patriarchate. Russian occupation authorities are likely systematically eliminating OCU churches in occupied Ukraine. ISW’s research found that 34 percent of the reported persecution events targeted the OCU, making it the single most targeted religious group. The high percentage of persecution events aimed at the OCU is not surprising on the one hand because it is the most popular confession in Ukraine. It is surprising on the other hand because the Kremlin has been posturing as the defender of Christianity in general and Eastern Orthodoxy in particular.[20] Witness reports indicate that Russian authorities are seemingly targeting the OCU for its Ukrainianess. The Russians pursued such targeted attacks on the OCU even during the short-lived Russian partial occupation of Kiev Oblast early in the war, suggesting that this targeting was an intentional component of the Russian invasion from the outset.
Russian occupation forces have also targeted other denominations that are distinctly culturally Ukrainian. Russian forces captured two Ukrainian Greek Catholic priests in Berdyansk in November 2022, deporting them and effectively closing the main Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Melitopol in December 2022.[25] Russian soldiers arrested a Protestant pastor and closed his congregation in Melitopol, reportedly because of his pro-Ukrainian views.[26]
Russia’s campaign also represses Ukraine's Protestant minority. Available open-source reporting indicates that the most common victims of Russian religious persecution after Ukrainian Orthodox are Protestants, particularly evangelical Baptists. Protestants of all denominations were the victims of 34 percent of the reported persecution events that ISW observed. Baptists made up 13 percent of victims – the largest single group after Ukrainian Orthodox. ISW observed reports of persecutions of Baptists near the occupied cities of Severodonetsk, Lysychansk, Mariupol, and Melitopol. Russian forces’ persecution of Protestants is most intense in southern Ukraine. Protestants were the victims of 35 percent and 48 percent of the reported persecution events in occupied Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts respectively. Protestants suffered two-thirds of the reported repression events in occupied Mariupol City.
Witness reports indicate that Russian soldiers’ conduct towards Protestants in occupied Ukraine is brutal. Russian troops commandeered a Kherson-based Ukrainian evangelical Baptist educational institute from March - November 2022 and established a garrison and crematorium there to cremate killed Russian soldiers.The institute’s rector stated that Russian soldiers repeatedly harassed the Baptists, calling them “American spies,” “sectarians,” and “enemies of the Russian Orthodox people.”[28] One Russian officer reportedly told workers at the institute, “Evangelical believers like you should be completely destroyed…a simple shooting will be too easy for you. You need to be buried alive,” and another Russian solider reportedly said, “We will bury [Baptist] sectarians like you.”[29] Russian soldiers raided and closed another Baptist Church in Chkalove, Zaporizhia Oblast, in September 2022. Congregants reported that armed Russian soldiers interrupted their worship service and stated, "Your feet will not be here after the referendum. We have only one faith, Orthodoxy."Russia’s Yarovaya Law does not recognize Protestantism as a “traditional religion” and imposes regulations on its practice.
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The US continues to upset its global partners, as it seeks to bolster its proxy war efforts with Russia. The latest leaks from Washington have proved that the US have been spying on their friends, much to the disappointment in Seoul.
"This has triggered security concerns in Seoul, with the opposition party questioning how the US was able to intercept such a high-level conversation. "This is a clear violation of our sovereignty by the United States and a super-scale security breach on the South Korean part," it said in a statement on Monday."
Whilst the US and much of the West continue to sanction anyone supporting Russia, there is much pressure being put on global partners to support Ukraine. How's that for bully boy tactics and hypocrisy?
"The US has made no secret of the fact that it wants Seoul to arm Ukraine. It believes South Korea, with its ability to build advanced weapons at a breakneck speed, could make a significant contribution to the outcome of the war. But Seoul has been reluctant to do so, for fear of burning bridges with Russia.
This leak suggests Seoul not only understood that South Korean shells could end up in Ukraine, but that they were open to this happening, which could strain its relationship with Russia. "South Korea always plays this delicate balancing act, with the US on one side, and Russia and China on the other," said Jenny Town, a Korea analyst from the think tank 38 North."
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In my haste to be on time only part of the report was posted.
Russian occupation officials have been repressing Ukrainian religious communities in proxy republics in eastern Ukraine and in illegally occupied Crimea since 2014. Former Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Oleksandr Zakharchenko declared in May 2015 that Ukrainian Orthodox Church (OCU) members, Greek Catholics, and Evangelical Christians were “sectarians” within the DNR.Zakharchenko announced that occupation authorities would only recognize the Russian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate, Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism. Occupation authorities forced many religious groups to reregister under the Russian Yarovaya law, bureaucratically eradicating religions such as Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Muslim group Hizb ut-Tahir. A Russian court ordered the only remaining Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Russia to be demolished at the expense of the Ukrainian diocese in 2019.
Moscow’s religious persecution campaign seeks to eradicate the Autocephalous (independent) Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU), which Moscow views as schismatic despite the decision by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople in 2019 granting the Ukrainian Orthodox Church its independence from the Moscow Patriarchate. Russian occupation authorities are likely systematically eliminating OCU churches in occupied Ukraine. ISW’s research found that 34 percent of the reported persecution events targeted the OCU, making it the single most targeted religious group. The high percentage of persecution events aimed at the OCU is not surprising on the one hand because it is the most popular confession in Ukraine. It is surprising on the other hand because the Kremlin has been posturing as the defender of Christianity in general and Eastern Orthodoxy in particular.Witness reports indicate that Russian authorities are seemingly targeting the OCU for its Ukrainianess. The Russians pursued such targeted attacks on the OCU even during the short-lived Russian partial occupation of Kiev Oblast early in the war, suggesting that this targeting was an intentional component of the Russian invasion from the outset.
Russian occupation officials are systematically seizing UOC property to transfer to the Moscow Patriarchate and are eliminating worship in the Ukrainian language. The synod of the Russian Orthodox Church issued a decision to officially annex the OCU’s dioceses in Dzhankoi, Simferopol, and Feodosia in Crimea on June 7, 2022, “out of the need to maintain an effective canonical and administrative connection with the central church authorities.” Six Russian FSB agents raided an OCU church in Melitopol, detained and deported its priest for conducting the liturgy in the Ukrainian language, and then closed the church in November 2022.Russian authorities have converted several OCU churches in occupied Ukraine to the Moscow Patriarchate. The full extent of Russian efforts to forcibly convert Ukrainians in occupied territories to Russian Orthodoxy is unclear. Russian occupation authorities have made no explicit statement allowing the OCU to coexist with the Russian Orthodox Church in occupied Ukraine, which is alarming given the documented instances of repression and forced conversion of OCU churches.
Witness reports indicate that Russian soldiers’ conduct towards Protestants in occupied Ukraine is brutal. Russian troops commandeered a Kherson-based Ukrainian evangelical Baptist educational institute from March - November 2022 and established a garrison and crematorium there to cremate killed Russian soldiers.[27] The institute’s rector stated that Russian soldiers repeatedly harassed the Baptists, calling them “American spies,” “sectarians,” and “enemies of the Russian Orthodox people.”[28] One Russian officer reportedly told workers at the institute, “Evangelical believers like you should be completely destroyed…a simple shooting will be too easy for you. You need to be buried alive,” and another Russian solider reportedly said, “We will bury [Baptist] sectarians like you.” But Russian soldiers raided and closed another Baptist Church in Chkalove, Zaporizhia Oblast, in September 2022.Congregants reported that armed Russian soldiers interrupted their worship service and stated, "Your feet will not be here after the referendum. We have only one faith, Orthodoxy." Russia’s Yarovaya Law does not recognize Protestantism as a “traditional religion” and imposes regulations on its practice.
Russia’s systematic religious persecution supports a larger Russian campaign of cultural genocide against Ukraine. ISW has previously assessed that Russia is conducting mass deportations of Ukrainian children and depopulating Ukrainian territory in what likely amounts to a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign.[33] ISW has assessed that this ethnic cleansing campaign is part of a larger Kremlin campaign of cultural genocide that seeks to eradicate the notion of a unique Ukrainian cultural identity. Ethnic cleansing has not been specified as a crime under international law, but a United Nations Commission of Experts has described ethnic cleansing as “a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.[34] The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide declares that genocide includes “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” This definition aligns with current Russian efforts to eliminate “undesirable” Ukrainian religious groups in occupied Ukrainian territories.[35] Russian deliberate attacks and vandalism against places of worship in occupied Ukraine may also constitute war crimes.[36]
The Kremlin continues an information operation aimed at falsely portraying Russia as a religiously tolerant state while deliberately repressing religious freedoms in Ukraine. Putin consistently presents Russia as the defender of traditional “Christian values” that also supports Orthodox, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism religions.[37] The Kremlin uses this information operation to accuse Ukraine of religious intolerance towards the Moscow Patriarchate and gain favor with religious communities worldwide. This information operation is at odds with Russian religious repressions on the ground. The Ukrainian Ministry of Reintegration’s indicated that Russians have reduced religious diversity by over 50 percent in Crimea, for example.[38] The Kremlin continues to use long-standing false narratives that the Ukrainian government is oppressing religious liberties as a moral justification for its refusal to negotiate with Ukraine, likely in the hopes of turning international public opinion against Ukraine.[39] The Kremlin is especially keen on accusing the Ukrainian government of persecuting the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate (UOC MP).[40]
The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41] The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church’s subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia’s initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42] Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43] One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Lugansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44] Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military’s success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill’s health.Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities.
Russia’s systematic religious persecution supports a larger Russian campaign of cultural genocide against Ukraine. ISW has previously assessed that Russia is conducting mass deportations of Ukrainian children and depopulating Ukrainian territory in what likely amounts to a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign.[33] ISW has assessed that this ethnic cleansing campaign is part of a larger Kremlin campaign of cultural genocide that seeks to eradicate the notion of a unique Ukrainian cultural identity. Ethnic cleansing has not been specified as a crime under international law, but a United Nations Commission of Experts has described ethnic cleansing as “a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.[34] The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide declares that genocide includes “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” This definition aligns with current Russian efforts to eliminate “undesirable” Ukrainian religious groups in occupied Ukrainian territories.[35] Russian deliberate attacks and vandalism against places of worship in occupied Ukraine may also constitute war crimes.[36]
The Kremlin continues an information operation aimed at falsely portraying Russia as a religiously tolerant state while deliberately repressing religious freedoms in Ukraine. Putin consistently presents Russia as the defender of traditional “Christian values” that also supports Orthodox, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism religions.[37] The Kremlin uses this information operation to accuse Ukraine of religious intolerance towards the Moscow Patriarchate and gain favor with religious communities worldwide. This information operation is at odds with Russian religious repressions on the ground. The Ukrainian Ministry of Reintegration’s indicated that Russians have reduced religious diversity by over 50 percent in Crimea, for example.[38] The Kremlin continues to use long-standing false narratives that the Ukrainian government is oppressing religious liberties as a moral justification for its refusal to negotiate with Ukraine, likely in the hopes of turning international public opinion against Ukraine.[39] The Kremlin is especially keen on accusing the Ukrainian government of persecuting the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate (UOC MP).[40]
The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41] The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church’s subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia’s initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42] Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43] One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Lugansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44] Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military’s success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill’s health.[45] Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46] Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities.
Russia’s systematic religious persecution supports a larger Russian campaign of cultural genocide against Ukraine. ISW has previously assessed that Russia is conducting mass deportations of Ukrainian children and depopulating Ukrainian territory in what likely amounts to a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign.[33] ISW has assessed that this ethnic cleansing campaign is part of a larger Kremlin campaign of cultural genocide that seeks to eradicate the notion of a unique Ukrainian cultural identity. Ethnic cleansing has not been specified as a crime under international law, but a United Nations Commission of Experts has described ethnic cleansing as “a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.[34] The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide declares that genocide includes “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” This definition aligns with current Russian efforts to eliminate “undesirable” Ukrainian religious groups in occupied Ukrainian territories.[35] Russian deliberate attacks and vandalism against places of worship in occupied Ukraine may also constitute war crimes.[36]
The Kremlin continues an information operation aimed at falsely portraying Russia as a religiously tolerant state while deliberately repressing religious freedoms in Ukraine. Putin consistently presents Russia as the defender of traditional “Christian values” that also supports Orthodox, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism religions.[37] The Kremlin uses this information operation to accuse Ukraine of religious intolerance towards the Moscow Patriarchate and gain favor with religious communities worldwide. This information operation is at odds with Russian religious repressions on the ground. The Ukrainian Ministry of Reintegration’s indicated that Russians have reduced religious diversity by over 50 percent in Crimea, for example.[38] The Kremlin continues to use long-standing false narratives that the Ukrainian government is oppressing religious liberties as a moral justification for its refusal to negotiate with Ukraine, likely in the hopes of turning international public opinion against Ukraine.[39] The Kremlin is especially keen on accusing the Ukrainian government of persecuting the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate (UOC MP).[40]
The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41] The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church’s subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia’s initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42] Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43] One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Lugansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44] Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military’s success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill’s health.[45] Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46] Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities.
https://www.iswresearch.org/
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Worthy of consideration.
"The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) advances an informed understanding of military affairs through reliable research, trusted analysis, and innovative education. We are committed to improving the nation’s ability to execute military operations and respond to emerging threats in order to achieve U.S. strategic objectives."
U.S strategic objectives and a report criticising Russia? :popcorn:
US strategic objective;
Our strategy is rooted in our national interests: to protect the security of the American people; to expand economic prosperity and opportunity; and to realize and defend the democratic values at the heart of the American way of life.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Biden-Harris-Administrations-National-Security-Strategy-10.2022.pdf
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Worthy of consideration.
"The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) advances an informed understanding of military affairs through reliable research, trusted analysis, and innovative education. We are committed to improving the nation’s ability to execute military operations and respond to emerging threats in order to achieve U.S. strategic objectives."
U.S strategic objectives and a report criticising Russia? :popcorn:
US strategic objective;
Our strategy is rooted in our national interests: to protect the security of the American people; to expand economic prosperity and opportunity; and to realize and defend the democratic values at the heart of the American way of life.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Biden-Harris-Administrations-National-Security-Strategy-10.2022.pdf
Yeah, what a load of crap. I'm sure you read all of Avh's posts (:)
oh BTW, "ISW currently operates as a nonprofit organization, supported in part by contributions from defense contractors including General Dynamics, DynCorp, and previously, Raytheon".
Once you find out it's non-profit, you know it's connected to the CIA/Military industrial complex. A completely unbiased account. :laugh:
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Worthy of consideration.
"The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) advances an informed understanding of military affairs through reliable research, trusted analysis, and innovative education. We are committed to improving the nation’s ability to execute military operations and respond to emerging threats in order to achieve U.S. strategic objectives."
U.S strategic objectives and a report criticising Russia? :popcorn:
US strategic objective;
Our strategy is rooted in our national interests: to protect the security of the American people; to expand economic prosperity and opportunity; and to realize and defend the democratic values at the heart of the American way of life.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Biden-Harris-Administrations-National-Security-Strategy-10.2022.pdf
:laugh: I’m sure ISW has no nefarious intent behind their ‘informed’ reporting. Funny!
What a joke, isn’t it? The *US Strategic Objective* is a load of sh!t.
Anyone who wasn’t fast asleep in a snow cave up on the arctic at least in the last 20 years can fully witness the toll it unleashed upon people of nations like Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan*, Serbia, Venezuela, Syria, Yemen, the continent of Africa (yup, read up about AFRICOM. We’ve been killing civilians there with our war games for a while now), and now of course - Ukraine.
With the kind of stooge politicians we have, notably these numbnuts who define themselves - Democrats - shudders one to realize inheriting the type of ‘democracy’ America is peddling, while killing their citizens in the process, is the greatest crime like no other.
Resistance is futile. You will all be assimilated.
* Now how many civilians did Obama obliterated with his ‘drone bombing fiesta’ on this nation again? Instead of getting persecuted for war crimes, he gets a Nobel Peace award instead.
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If by now there’s still an iota of doubt that the Democrat-led US bears total responsibility in this war for causing the 2014 coup that eventually led to this current bloodbath then you’re clinically inept.
It isn’t stopping in Ukraine either, LOL.
No matter which search engine you use, search ‘coup US Africa’ :chuckle:
Yup, that reality won’t be seen or published in any MSM. Certainly not CNN or MSNBC.
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If by now there’s still an iota of doubt that the Democrat-led US bears total responsibility in this war for causing the 2014 coup that eventually led to this current bloodbath then you’re clinically inept.
It isn’t stopping in Ukraine either, LOL.
No matter which search engine you use, search ‘coup US Africa’ :chuckle:
Yup, that reality won’t be seen or published in any MSM. Certainly not CNN or MSNBC.
Yea they all prefer to wait until it kicks off following the fermented unrest and then criticise the sitting government, fund and install a western sympathetic opposition and buy enough war and death to get the job done. Meanwhile the sheep believe what the MSM spoon feed them and call the better read folks, trolls or bots.
More freedom and thank you Uncle Sam :chuckle:
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If by now there’s still an iota of doubt that the Democrat-led US bears total responsibility in this war for causing the 2014 coup that eventually led to this current bloodbath then you’re clinically inept.
It isn’t stopping in Ukraine either, LOL.
No matter which search engine you use, search ‘coup US Africa’ :chuckle:
Yup, that reality won’t be seen or published in any MSM. Certainly not CNN or MSNBC.
Yea they all prefer to wait until it kicks off following the fermented unrest and then criticise the sitting government, fund and install a western sympathetic opposition and buy enough war and death to get the job done. Meanwhile the sheep believe what the MSM spoon feed them and call the better read folks, trolls or bots.
More freedom and thank you Uncle Sam :chuckle:
Isn’t that just lovely?
And right smack in the middle of these coup extravaganza is none other than the lovable Victoria ‘have a cookie’ Nulabd.
Which if you harken back to a fateful day not too long ago, those hired assassin who started shooting both the protestors and the police did in fact came from the same shouters. Shortly after, Ukrainians started killing each other.
Same stories unfolding all over Africa.
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Yes yes usa bad.
And yet you all equally ignore where wagner troops deployed there and gained their criminal reputation of killing civilians the last many years.
Whats russias interest there?
Goldilocks fairy tales?
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The live beheading,by knife, of a ukrainian pow seems the latest grisly release from russian telegram channels
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if Bakhmut was only important to Russia, than Ukraine would not have sacrificed so many men and equipment there. many of the people I listen to do not understand why Bakhmut is so important to either side, but some have mentioned the 2 main roads that end or pass through that city (shrug).
Soledar and Bakhmut have massive underground structures both mines and made from concrete. Asovstal was built by USSR to function even during nuclear war, not just regular war. To lose both cities mean that underground war is over. Actually, it means that this war will be pretty much over soon.
This is quote from the paper:
“Salt and gypsum mines form a huge underground "web" in the area of Soledar and Bakhmut. This was mentioned, in particular, in one of his relatively recent reports by the head of PMC "Wagner" Prigozhin: "The system of Soledar and Bakhmut mines is actually a network of underground cities. In which there is not only a crowd of people at a depth of 80-100 m, but also tanks and infantry fighting vehicles move. And weapons stockpiles have been stored since the First World War."
I am posting the video that shows just one factory in Bakmut located 80 meters under ground that produces wine. It’s just a small screenshot of those structures. I am sure the more serious objects are not allowed to record on video. Ask your wife to translate.
Ryan McBeth has a different reason for the continued Russian attacks on Bakhmut
short vid
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qx-oBIMv_kA
seems a better reason to me
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Yes yes usa bad.
And yet you all equally ignore where wagner troops deployed there and gained their criminal reputation of killing civilians the last many years.
Whats russias interest there?
Goldilocks fairy tales?
C’mon AJ! Stop it. Wagner is not a country.
They’re a paramilitary group that has presence in many nations killing folks. You know, just like the US.
So where do we go from here? Oh yeah, one of them kills in the name of money.
Not sure what motivates the Wagner group. Maybe money too?
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Yes yes usa bad.
And yet you all equally ignore where wagner troops deployed there and gained their criminal reputation of killing civilians the last many years.
Whats russias interest there?
Goldilocks fairy tales?
C’mon AJ! Stop it. Wagner is not a country.
They’re a paramilitary group that has presence in many nations killing folks. You know, just like the US.
So where do we go from here? Oh yeah, one of them kills in the name of money.
Not sure what motivates the Wagner group. Maybe money too?
Amusing, if you think about the above it is two wrongs make a right.
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The live beheading,by knife, of a ukrainian pow seems the latest grisly release from russian telegram channels
Unfortunately, the soldiers executing the beheading are unidentifiable. There's much discussion on telegram wether or not they actually are Russian soldiers.
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Yes yes usa bad.
And yet you all equally ignore where wagner troops deployed there and gained their criminal reputation of killing civilians the last many years.
Whats russias interest there?
Goldilocks fairy tales?
C’mon AJ! Stop it. Wagner is not a country.
They’re a paramilitary group that has presence in many nations killing folks. You know, just like the US.
So where do we go from here? Oh yeah, one of them kills in the name of money.
Not sure what motivates the Wagner group. Maybe money too?
Amusing, if you think about the above it is two wrongs make a right.
It is, isn’t it? Everything about this silly Ukraine war is exactly that. That’s always been the point but surprised you had to think about it just to find it amusing.
Now [that’s] more than amusing!
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Another piece of hypocrisy is the silence from the West, as Zelensky forces thousands of young male university students, who study abroad, to stay and die in the trenches....all whilst refusing to negotiate a cease fire and enter peace talks. Thousands of their best brains who could be educated in the best Universities around the world and return to rebuild after this pointless war has ended, are killed needlessly.
It's a clear breach of article 26 of the UN declaration of human rights and these students are exempt from military service. Zelensky ignores a petition from 25,000 students whilst writing exit letters for the rich and privileged, to sit on a sunny beach somewhere in Spain whilst the war rages on. Are you waking up yet?
The EU shouts glory to Ukraine and our press write article after article about how nasty Putin is towards young Russian men......all whilst sticking their head in the sand and denying yet another sad Ukrainian reality. The whole thing stinks top to bottom.
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As pointed out earlier, the support for Ukraine by pretty much all of the west has been phenomenal and this is why Russia has been bogged down for so long. However, I did say previously that they've burned through much of their ammo and specialist weaponry and are spending it somewhere between 6-10 times quicker than we can manufacture.
Here's a link to the BBC article today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65347835
A year ago Volodymyr and his men were firing all 40 barrels of their BM-21 Grad rocket launcher in one go. Now they can only afford to fire a few at a time at Russian targets.
"We haven't got enough ammunition for our weapon," he explains.
He says Ukraine has already burned through its own stocks of Grad ammunition, so is relying on rockets sourced from other countries. Volodymyr says supplies are coming from the Czech Republic, Romania and Pakistan. He complains the rockets originating from Pakistan are "not of a good quality".
Ukraine's call for more weapons and ammunition has only become louder the longer the war has gone on. The focus now is preparing for a major offensive. But at the same time Ukraine is still having to expend huge resources on just maintaining its position.
The Russian-made Buk air defence system, which can target aircraft, drones and missiles, is still one of its prized possessions. We get rare access to see one further along the front line - also hidden in a wooded area.
"We haven't got enough," he says. "Parts break and we haven't got spares because the factories that produce them are not in Ukraine."
Volodymyr, the commander of the Grad, is even more blunt. "The country is exhausted, the economy too," he says.
I wonder if Tex thinks this is Russian propaganda or maybe an accurate account of things on the ground? It must be the worst feeling fighting a battle but running low on ammunition.
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"Ukraine is going to lose" by BRANDON J WEICHERT.
Brandon J Weichert is a former US congressional staffer and a geopolitical analyst. On top of being a contributor at Asia Times, he is a contributing editor at American Greatness and The Washington Times. Weichert recently became a senior editor at 19FortyFive. He is the author of Winning Space: How America Remains a Superpower, The Shadow War: Iran’s Quest for Supremacy, and Biohacked: China’s Race to Control Life. He can be followed via Twitter @WeTheBrandon.
https://asiatimes.com/2023/03/ukraine-is-going-to-lose/
There’s a notion floating around the Internet that the current conflict in Ukraine is going to remain a static war of attrition that will bleed the Russian army dry. So what if it decimates Ukraine’s society and eradicates most of its population? At least the dreaded Russian war machine will have been ground to a halt in the killing fields of Ukraine.
Those believing this narrative are living in a fantasy.
Fact is, the Ukrainian military is drained, the Western supply chains are strained, and the NATO stockpiles of critical weapons and ammunition are depleted. The war is transitioning, therefore, into a conflict in which the Russian side will enjoy several critical advantages.
The outcome of this war, a defeat for Ukraine and its NATO backers, was totally avoidable. Sensing the weakness of the West – and the fact that they’re woefully overextended – the Russians are going to use all means to break Ukraine and subdue it. The beginning of the end is likely happening right now in Bakhmut, a city in Ukraine’s far east (closest to the Russian border).
Of course, Bakhmut alone is unimportant for either side. What is important about the eastern Ukrainian village is that it lies on the path to the Dnieper River. A beating heart of trade and transportation, the Dnieper is a main artery for Ukraine.
The Russians’ strategy of attrition is working and their ultimate goal is, at the very least, to hold on to the eastern Russian-speaking portions of Ukraine as well as Crimea in the south.
Pushing Ukraine’s forces out of Bakhmut would conceivably allow Russia to race toward the Dnieper and cut the region off from the rest of Ukraine. Russian control over the Dnieper would also prevent the Ukrainians from launching an ill-advised assault on Crimea.
The slow and painful death of the Ukrainian state is at hand. Whether it happens in a few months or a year, the Russians aren’t going anywhere, and they are going to fight this war the same way they’ve fought every conflict in their history: with lots of manpower, brutality, and time.
Given the losses the Ukrainians have sustained fighting in the east – and will likely continue to sustain as the war slogs on – the tanks will make no difference for Ukraine’s defense when they finally do arrive.
In Daniel Davis’ assessment, the losses that Ukraine’s military has sustained in the vain attempt to maintain control over Bakhmut has resulted in a severe reduction in Ukraine’s offensive capabilities that it is unlikely to restore any time soon (not without the introduction of Western forces, that is).
The Russo-Ukrainian war is entering its next critical phase. It is a period in which the West must seriously reassess its commitment, as the Russians are not going to surrender or abandon their mission of crushing the Ukrainian state. While the Zelensky government could have been saved a year ago, the arrogance of Western leaders prevented a deal from moving forward.
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And for the avoidance of doubt, me posting the articles above doesn't make me pro Russia or a propagandist. I'm just a bloke who hasn't bought into the western popular media narrative of Russia bad, Ukraine/West good or Russia losing heavily, Ukraine on the march.
It's been a conflict full of death and pain and yet another glimpse of humans at their very worst. It can't be summed up in a simple way and there's so much going on behind the scenes which kicked it off and to continue feeding the flames today.
It's an interesting read because if you google anything to do with the conflict, all western news outlets tell us, is how terrible Putin is, how corrupt the country is, how poorly equipped the Russians are, how many Russians are being killed, how glorious and brave Zelensky is etc etc.
In decades to come, generations will look back at the coverage and see that this is just another classic propaganda war, to keep the support on side. I'd much prefer a dose of reality so we the people can force our politicians to seek peace and do the right thing.
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Rosco - great quick read - thanks... To bad Z10%sky killed so many of his own fighting Countrymen ordering them into a Meat Grinder...
I can imagine a lot of pissed off UA men looking to Scalp Z10%sky for leading a $400 Million Skim while sending so many of their family members to UNECESSARY BIDEN NEOCON pushed deaths.
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https://www.mk.ru/politics/2023/05/11/voennyy-ekspert-dopustil-arest-zaluzhnogo-i-syrskogo-izza-sporov-s-zelenskim.html
The military expert suggested the arrest of Zaluzhny and Syrsky because of disputes with Zelensky
Military expert Matviychuk: Zaluzhny and Syrsky were arrested because of disagreements with Zelensky
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny and Commander of the Land Forces of the Ukrainian Army Alexander Syrsky may be arrested because of their position, which is contrary to the opinion of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky, military expert Anatoly Matviychuk said in an interview with NEWS.ru. Two Ukrainian generals are trying to "hide from everyone," including from the West, the specialist shared his point of view.
"I admit that the disappearance of Zaluzhny and Syrsky from sight may be a consequence of their arrest because of a position contrary to Zelensky's position. And now they are hidden from everyone, including the West," suggested the interlocutor of the publication.
Earlier, the head of the Military Committee of the North Atlantic Alliance Rob Bauer said that Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny refused to participate in the meeting of the committee. He informed that the Ukrainian general did not want to participate in the event even in video format due to the tense operational situation on the line of contact.
After that, a number of Russian telegram channels reported that Zaluzhny was probably liquidated during the fighting near the city of Chasov Yar. The Russian Ministry of Defense did not confirm this information, and the Ukrainian side denied the relevant data.
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Offensives are constantly waiting here. “We are sure that they will trample soon," the officer notes. - There are no other options. T-72 and T-80 are likely to be the first to be launched. After all, if we immediately start hammering "Leopards" or "Abrams", the West will not like it. In general, dirty work will be shifted to Soviet equipment."
Later in the article:
Sniper with the call sign Yakut compares NATO and Russian rifles “ there are a lot of mercenaries armed with NATO rifles of the 50th caliber. These weapons are much more accurate. And more capricious. Very heavy - up to 50 kilograms. It's harder to move with them, which is an important factor in our work," adds the shooter. "For example, we can fall out in the mud, then pick up a "tool" - and it won't jam."
https://ria.ru/20230511/donbass-1870797540.html?utm_source=news.mail.ru&utm_medium=informer&utm_campaign=rian_partners
Interesting article. Many pictures and brief explanation.
You can use Google translate.
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Would you like to look how this play out in the coming months and see just how fake your Russian news really is? Last winter there was supposed to be a big Russian offensive that was supposed to take most of not all Ukraine. They did not even get Bakhmut. My sources said nothing much would really happen. Now Russia has culminated now like it has twice before and Russia is likely to lose a big chunk of Ukraine land by the time it is over in a few months.
The main reason for western tanks is western tanks use ammo and parts made in western country which is easier for western countries to supply. Of course, some of them will get blown up. Still the western tanks have better targeting systems which will give them an advantage when fighting Russian tanks. This does not help much against drones, combat jets and longer-range artillery. So, there will still be loses.
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Still the western tanks have better targeting systems which will give them an advantage when fighting Russian tanks. This does not help much against drones, combat jets and longer-range artillery. So, there will still be loses.
So that means NATO and Ukraine will continue to lose slowly then.
No mention of Kiev being pounded the last few days Tex? Why Zelensky is on the missing list. Or that they've started moving on Odessa?
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The comedian is obviously doing his best to help Ukraine but I suspect it won't be long before he loses some support. He's already demanding more and quicker from the western nations who've put themselves on the verge of a recession and shipped billions over to keep their war going.
Today he hijacked the Arab league, accusing them of turning a blind eye to the war and trying to get them to shun Russia. Next stop, the G7 in Japan so he can demand we hand over F16 fighters and all the support and money that needs.
Whilst I sympathise with the Ukrainians in their fight, the comedian makes it hard for Joe Bloggs to like him. He seems greedy, needy, demanding and not fully appreciate of what we've all sacrificed for his war. And when it's all said and done, Blackrock, Zelensky and the Biden crime family might be better off but I guarantee that none of us will be.
They'll all be sitting on their millions whilst we continue to pay through the nose for basics. Quite frankly charity starts at home and I couldn't care who runs Zaporozhye so long as all is well in my world.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-65646055
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Patrushev warned about the radioactive cloud impending from Ukraine to Europe
SYKTYVKAR, May 19. /TASS/. The destruction of depleted uranium ammunition supplied by the West to Ukraine has led to the emergence of a radioactive cloud - it has already headed towards Europe, Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev said on Friday at a meeting in Syktyvkar.
Ukraine was "helped" and ammunition with depleted uranium was supplied. Their destruction led to the fact that the radioactive cloud headed towards Western Europe. And the increase in radiation level has already been recorded in Poland.
Nikolai Patrushev
Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation
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9 hours ago, source: Lenta.Ru
Patriot air defense systems lost all 32 missiles while trying to shoot down the Russian "Dagger" hypersonic. Why are these complexes vulnerable?
The Patriot anti-aircraft missile system lost all 32 missiles while trying to shoot down a Russian hypersonic Dagger missile, according to a Military Watch Magazine (MWM) article.
$96 million was worth launching 32 rockets from Patriot air defense systems.
It is also noted that these American systems were left near Kiev to protect the Ukrainian capital from Russian strikes on critical infrastructure.
The article says that the complexes are low-mobility, their ability to move is lower than that of the Soviet versions of the S-300, so they were not moved to the front line to cover Ukrainian troops.
The Russian Defense Ministry reported that on May 16, as a result of the impact by the Dagger hypersonic missile complex in Kiev, a multifunctional radar station (radar), as well as five launchers of the American-made Patriot anti-aircraft missile complex (aircraft missile systems) were hit and completely destroyed.
Before that, it became known that the American Patriot anti-aircraft missile system (aircraft missile system) was destroyed in Kiev by the MiG-31K Dagger carrier. Military expert Alexei Leonkov told Izvestia that the American Patriot transferred to Ukraine used all the ammunition in an attempt to shoot down one Russian hypersonic missile. According to him, a total of 32 missiles fired from eight launchers were spent.
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Ukrainian air defense (air defense) troops destroyed 18 Russian missiles out of 18 launched. At the same time, he ignored the fact that the United States recognized the defeat of at least one Patriot.
On May 18, U.S. Department of Defense spokesman Sabrina Singh reported that the Patriot anti-aircraft missile system damaged in the battles in Ukraine had returned to service after repair. According to her, Washington helped the Armed Forces of Ukraine in this.
The destruction of the Patriot system should not be surprising
Military expert Tyler Rogovey said in an article for War Zone that the destruction or damage to the Patriot system by a hypersonic dagger missile should not be surprising. According to him, the technical characteristics of Russian weapons allow us to do this.
Air-based ballistic missiles "Dagger" would be the best conventional weapon for a successful attack on these batteries. They were developed, in particular, to evade higher-level missile defense.
Tyler Rogoway military expert noted that air defense systems like Patriot air defense systems would in any case be targeted for strikes, as their radars can be detected due to powerful electromagnetic radiation. In addition, even the most modern modification of the complex is low-mobility, it takes time to move it.
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Amazed me how the Pro NATO western media touted the Vunder Veapons like the vaunted Patriot System that Zalensky10%ski had installed in Kiev...
The Rooskies shot a few drones to engage the trigger happy Ukraine Patriot operators (USA Contractors in UA Uniforms) and then the Shoot Everything you have all at once Ukraine JV literally shot off 30 Patriot missiles (Approx 1 Month of Factory Production) all in one wave which the Russian Satellites were looking for and pinpointed and One Kinzhal hypersonic missile later NO MORE Patriot Missile Battery that cost 1.2 Billion USD per multi Launcher Trailers, Command Module Trucks and Radar Trucks - USA Media reporting it was only partially damaged with a report of a few personnel casualties... (100+ Operators per Battery)
If you ever saw a Hypersonic Missile's combined Kinetic and Explosive Energy there is a good chance that that Patriot System is now Scrap being sold off to the Russians and Chinese for reverse engineering by desperate Ukrainian Officers (sold a Bill of Raytheon Bull Shite about how the Patriot has a slim window of opportunity it can engage a Hypersonic Missile to deflect it (into civilian residential areas) - Clearly once the Russians Pinpoint a Patriot Battery Complex even if they installed the trucks and trailers 100s of meters apart. It is literally a dead duck. Cooked and Done.
Advanced Russian Satellite ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) Pinpointing with one Kinszhal Hypersonic Dropping from Altitude was more than enough to Take Out this Highly Vulnerable Patriot System blowing OVER $1 Billion in the process. Raytheon better find a way to upgrade the Patriot to intercept new Russian or Chinese Ultra-Hypersonic (10X the speed of sound Plus) missiles or the US Navy and US Army are Fooked. US Air Force, Space Force and Nuke Subs another matter as ICBMs go orbital at 25,000 miles per hour and are near impossible to intercept - same for the Russians' and NORKs' and Chinks' ICBMs.
Work on your Bucket Lists Gents and Ladies and enjoy the last days of modern civilization before the Nuclear Apocalypse makes life a bit too uncomfortable for all you RUA Arm Chair Commandoes especially in the EU and UK. Just Saying...
[attachimg=1]
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Patrushev warned about the radioactive cloud impending from Ukraine to Europe
SYKTYVKAR, May 19. /TASS/. The destruction of depleted uranium ammunition supplied by the West to Ukraine has led to the emergence of a radioactive cloud - it has already headed towards Europe, Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev said on Friday at a meeting in Syktyvkar.
Ukraine was "helped" and ammunition with depleted uranium was supplied. Their destruction led to the fact that the radioactive cloud headed towards Western Europe. And the increase in radiation level has already been recorded in Poland.
Nikolai Patrushev
Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation
This WAR CRIME is on the British WAR MONGERS who supplied RADIOACTIVE GAMMA and ALPHA ray emitting so call "depleted uranium" from used up Nuclear Plant Fuel Rods and the Ukrainians who stored all of this POISON in one Warehouse Complex - likely UA officers texted locations to RU officers so this poison would not be used to poison the rich fertile UA soil for the next 1,000 years causing cancer and birth defects in the Ukrainians and or Russians who eventually repopulate the war zones after the war is over. Irony is the cloud is floating across Europe now... No lessons learned from Chernobyl!
Unless NATO and RUSSIA lose their minds and go to full on Strategic Nuclear Mutual Destruction... Then all bets are off in the UA, UK and EU at least - whereas the Soviets planned for this and bequeathed survival underground Cities to the modern Russians.
Once Europe really pisses off the Russians this could all be over in a day or two.
Can't blame this on the USA as our CiC is DEMENTED.
You EU lot supposedly know what the phook you are doing - unless this is all part of Klaus NatZee WEF Schwab, George Soros, and Bill Gates depopulation agenda for Pan-Europa.
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https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/16/world/russia-ukraine-news#ukraine-supreme-court-chief-bribery
The chair of Ukraine’s Supreme Court was removed from his post after being arrested in a bribery investigation, two anti-corruption bodies said on Tuesday.
The agencies did not identify the chair by name, but said it was the Supreme Court chief. On Tuesday, Vsevolod Knyazev was dismissed as chief justice after an overwhelming majority of the court’s judges voted to strip him of the position, according to local news reports.
The authorities accused the justice of accepting $2.7 million in bribes.
The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine posted photos on Facebook that included piles of American dollars stacked on a table and a sofa. The agency’s chief, Semen Kryvonos, said a bribe was paid for ruling in favor of the Finance and Credit financial group, which is owned by a prominent businessman, according to Reuters.
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I could find only one video of the explosion in Khmelnitsk on May 13, 2023.
You can watch video here
https://rutube.ru/video/ad2b93b2bc4c8fa2dc1a6d95d2099723/
Explosions like this were in Ternopol as well.
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Patrushev warned about the radioactive cloud impending from Ukraine to Europe
SYKTYVKAR, May 19. /TASS/. The destruction of depleted uranium ammunition supplied by the West to Ukraine has led to the emergence of a radioactive cloud - it has already headed towards Europe, Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev said on Friday at a meeting in Syktyvkar.
Ukraine was "helped" and ammunition with depleted uranium was supplied. Their destruction led to the fact that the radioactive cloud headed towards Western Europe. And the increase in radiation level has already been recorded in Poland.
Nikolai Patrushev
Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation
Just propaganda. Below is the most recent update from IAEA of a couple days ago.
A location near the town of Enerhodar – home to most staff of Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) – reportedly came under artillery fire this morning in the latest incident indicating an increasingly tense military situation in the area, Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said today.
IAEA experts present at the ZNPP – located just a few kilometres from Enerhodar – informed headquarters that the plant itself had not been affected, but the proximity once again underlined persistent nuclear safety and security dangers at a time of heightened speculation of future military operations in the region, the Director General said.
Director General Grossi reiterated his determination to secure the protection of Europe’s largest nuclear power plant (NPP) – which has been shelled several times during the 15-month conflict – and said he was engaged in intense negotiations with all involved parties to achieve this vital objective and help prevent the risk of a severe nuclear accident on the continent.
“It is very simple: don’t shoot at the plant and don’t use the plant as a military base. It should be in the interest of everyone to agree on a set of principles to protect the plant during the conflict,” he said.
The plant has seen a major fall in staff numbers since the armed conflict in Ukraine began in February last year, with plant personnel and their families facing extremely difficult and stressful conditions in the frontline region during the conflict.
A recent evacuation of some residents from Enerhodar added to the uncertainty about the staffing situation and the IAEA experts earlier this month observed a further reduction in the plant’s staffing to essential personnel only. However, on 15 May, regular day staff returned to the plant and have continued to work during the week. The size of the workforce is still far below that of the pre-conflict level, however.
“Our experts have seen a notable increase of personnel at the plant this week. At the moment, it has enough staff for a plant whose reactors are all in a shutdown mode. It remains clearly insufficient, however, for carrying out necessary maintenance and other regular work. The longer the plant has this kind of reduced staffing, the bigger the nuclear safety and security risks become. The situation remains unsustainable,” Director General Grossi said.
Further underlining potential nuclear safety and security risks, the ZNPP still relies on the only remaining functioning 750 kilovolt (kV) power line for the external electricity it needs for reactor cooling and other essential nuclear safety and security functions. Before the conflict, the plant had four such off-site power lines available. The last functioning back-up 330 kV power line that was damaged on the right bank of the Dnipro River on 1 March has still not been repaired.
The IAEA team at the site continues to engage with their counterparts on the issue of gaining access to the nearby Zaporizhzhya Thermal Power Plant (ZTPP) following assurances by Russian state nuclear company Rosatom that this would be granted. The ZTPP operates its 330 kV open switchyard, through which back-up power has in the past been provided to the ZNPP. In addition, Director General Grossi said the IAEA team is engaging to have full access to the ZNPP’s turbine halls.
The IAEA experts are also continuing to monitor the height of the Kakhovka Reservoir, which provides cooling water for the ZNPP. The height of the reservoir has risen significantly over the past month and on 6 May it was at historically high levels of 17.12 metres, which had raised concerns that the high levels could adversely affect the plant. The height is currently stable at 17.06 metres. The elevation of the ZNPP site is 22 metres, approximately five metres above the current height of the reservoir.
Related resources
Update 157 – IAEA Director General Statement on Situation in Ukraine
Nuclear Safety and Security in Ukraine
Rafael Mariano Grossi
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I recognize we are speaking of different locations, perhaps some one can tell what the Jet Stream is doing over Ukraine presently?
What is the half life of D-38 or DU?
This should keep some joy posters busy.
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I recognize we are speaking of different locations, perhaps some one can tell what the Jet Stream is doing over Ukraine presently?
What is the half life of D-38 or DU?
This should keep some joy posters busy.
4.5 billion years,
There, first hit on google.
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I recognize we are speaking of different locations, perhaps some one can tell what the Jet Stream is doing over Ukraine presently?
What is the half life of D-38 or DU?
This should keep some joy posters busy.
No worries AvHdB. I doubt any noticeable amount would ever make it up into the jet stream. Too heavy and too far to go. Only a possible concern for those on the ground, inhaling any resulting fumes created by a projectile that hit its armored target, or lesser so those firing them.
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I recognize we are speaking of different locations, perhaps some one can tell what the Jet Stream is doing over Ukraine presently?
What is the half life of D-38 or DU?
This should keep some joy posters busy.
4.5 billion years,
There, first hit on google.
Try max 14 days and yes D-38 can enter the jet stream. Which is flowing South by South East presently.
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I recognize we are speaking of different locations, perhaps some one can tell what the Jet Stream is doing over Ukraine presently?
What is the half life of D-38 or DU?
This should keep some joy posters busy.
4.5 billion years,
There, first hit on google.
Try max 14 days and yes D-38 can enter the jet stream. Which is flowing South by South East presently.
For some reason the modification I wanted to make did not post. It seems journalists are often confusing U-238 and D-38. D-38 or DU have a maximum half life of 14 days though some scientists say a week. It is unhealthy in large quantities if consumed internally.
The jet stream is flowing from Ukraine in a South by South East direction, over the Adriatic. If the material is ignited (think missiles strike) it will carbonize and become a fine dust.
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Unlike fallout from a nuclear explosion, where particles are pushed up many miles, any 'dust' as you call it will barely get off the ground in any great quantity.
Making a mountain out of a molehill.
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As expected, Wagner have finally taken full control of Bakhmut. This comes after pro Ukrainian news outlets had been reporting huge gains for UF's and Russians on the run. It pretty much sums up the reporting of the whole conflict and serves as a reminder, that what we are told isn't always true.
Russia's Prigozhin claims full control of Bakhmut - Ukraine says 'situation is critical'
The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has claimed full control of the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut today.
The eastern Ukraine city has been the focus of the longest and bloodiest battle of the war.
Mr Prigozhin made the claim in a video while wearing combat fatigues in front of a line of fighters holding Russian flags and Wagner banners.
"Today, at 12 noon, Bakhmut was completely taken," he said.
He added that his forces would withdraw from Bakhmut from 25 May for rest and retraining.
"We completely took the whole city, from house to house," he said.
Distant explosions could be heard in the background as Mr Prigozhin spoke during the video.
Ukrainian military has denied the claim.
Serhiy Cherevatyy, spokesperson of the Joint Forces of Ukraine told Sky News: "This is not true. Fighting is going on in the city."
On the heavy fighting in Bakhmut, Ukraine's deputy defence minister Hanna Maliar said Ukrainian troops were maintaining a defence in the southwestern part of the city.
"Heavy fighting in Bakhmut. The situation is critical," she said on the Telegram messaging app. "As of now, our defenders control some industrial and infrastructure facilities in the area and the private sector."
Mr Prigozhin taunted Mr Zelenskyy and US President Joe Biden, who were taking part in a G7 summit in Japan today.
Addressing Mr Zelenskyy, Mr Prigozhin said: "Today when you see Biden, kiss him on the top of his head, say hi to him from me."
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-zelenskyy-to-make-unexpected-in-person-appearance-at-g7-as-Kiev-comes-under-evil-attack-12541713
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Unlike fallout from a nuclear explosion, where particles are pushed up many miles, any 'dust' as you call it will barely get off the ground in any great quantity.
Making a mountain out of a molehill.
… or it migHt be even beneficial for health.
In this case, every morning should start with the explosion like this.
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As expected, Wagner have finally taken full control of Bakhmut. This comes after pro Ukrainian news outlets had been reporting huge gains for UF's and Russians on the run. It pretty much sums up the reporting of the whole conflict and serves as a reminder, that what we are told isn't always true.
Russia's Prigozhin claims full control of Bakhmut - Ukraine says 'situation is critical'
The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has claimed full control of the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut today.
The eastern Ukraine city has been the focus of the longest and bloodiest battle of the war.
Mr Prigozhin made the claim in a video while wearing combat fatigues in front of a line of fighters holding Russian flags and Wagner banners.
"Today, at 12 noon, Bakhmut was completely taken," he said.
He added that his forces would withdraw from Bakhmut from 25 May for rest and retraining.
"We completely took the whole city, from house to house," he said.
Distant explosions could be heard in the background as Mr Prigozhin spoke during the video.
Ukrainian military has denied the claim.
Serhiy Cherevatyy, spokesperson of the Joint Forces of Ukraine told Sky News: "This is not true. Fighting is going on in the city."
On the heavy fighting in Bakhmut, Ukraine's deputy defence minister Hanna Maliar said Ukrainian troops were maintaining a defence in the southwestern part of the city.
"Heavy fighting in Bakhmut. The situation is critical," she said on the Telegram messaging app. "As of now, our defenders control some industrial and infrastructure facilities in the area and the private sector."
Mr Prigozhin taunted Mr Zelenskyy and US President Joe Biden, who were taking part in a G7 summit in Japan today.
Addressing Mr Zelenskyy, Mr Prigozhin said: "Today when you see Biden, kiss him on the top of his head, say hi to him from me."
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-zelenskyy-to-make-unexpected-in-person-appearance-at-g7-as-Kiev-comes-under-evil-attack-12541713
Yeah. Hundreds of people are dying every day, and Ze is touring the world: USA, Italy, Germany, Japan.
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As expected, Wagner have finally taken full control of Bakhmut. This comes after pro Ukrainian news outlets had been reporting huge gains for UF's and Russians on the run. It pretty much sums up the reporting of the whole conflict and serves as a reminder, that what we are told isn't always true.
In dutch media, its been crickets and quietness, just a "Ukraine disputes Prigoz's claims...." And nothing since:
Meanwhile on the pro-Ukrainian western propaganda site : https://liveuamap.com/ , bakhmut is completely under Russian control now.
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Finally, at least one country is talking a bit of sense. Denmark wants to host a peace summit in July, to try and bring an end to the war. They feel that Ukraine might now be willing to start discussions. From Sky News;
Denmark wants to host peace summit in July
Denmark would like to host a summit in July to work out how to bring peace to Ukraine, the country's foreign minister has said.
"If Ukraine finds that the time has come to have such a meeting, that would be fantastic," Lars Lokke Rasmussen said, according to Danish news agency Ritzau."Then Denmark would obviously like to host the meeting," he added.
As the war rages on, more and more countries have suggested meetings or peace plans to Ukraine and Russia in a bid to end the conflict.
China has called for a ceasefire in a 12-point paper, Pope Francis has hoped to send personal peace envoys and, most recently, South Africa arranged to send a mission of African leaders to meet Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Vladimir Putin to discuss a resolution.
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It's now clear that the battle for Bakhmut has been won by Russia but predictably, our western media along with the Ukrainian propaganda department, are doing their best to repackage it as a loss.
One analyst on Sky News spoke about how the Russian victory was actually a draw. :scared0005:
The Ukrainians are telling us that it was just a mouse trap and not really that important after all, having thrown everything at it and suffering huge losses.
The Wagner group is broken and no longer able to function.
We're being told that there's now a clear divide between the Kremlin and the Russian people......according to US based institute for the study of war.
Russias efforts in Bakhmut have handicapped their ability to defend against the up coming counter offences.
Western officials are happy to quote figures in the region of 30-40k killed or wounded Russians after their Bakhmut offensive but only say that Ukraine suffered big losses too.....but no estimated numbers!! (:)
And the list goes on. If there was ever a time to reconsider ones faith in our own media, the time is now. Only last week they were telling us that Ukraine were taking the city back, Russians were running home crying, they only had spades to fight with etc yet here are now talking about Russia's victory actually being a loss.
Quite incredible.
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If some of you guys still don't believe this is a proxy war, then it's time to wake up. We're seriously close to this becoming an all out global conflict and our lives will change considerably.
From sky news;
Russia questions NATO over F-16 jets for Ukraine
Russia has warned the US and its NATO allies over their plans to provide Ukraine with F-16 fighter jets.
The country's ambassador to Washington, Anatoly Antonov, questioned whether the use of the powerful planes in the war would constitute direct Western involvement - claiming Ukraine does not have the required infrastructure or personnel to operate them itself.
Writing on the Russian embassy's Telegram account, he said: "Every specialist knows that there is no infrastructure for the use of F-16s in Ukraine, and the required number of pilots and maintenance personnel is not there either.
"What would happen if American fighters take off from NATO airfields, operated by foreign 'volunteers'?"
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has long pleaded with his Western allies to provide the jets, and got his wish at the G7 summit over the weekend. But it will take months for Ukrainian pilots to be trained to use them.
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
I see Zelensky flew out to Japan in a French government plane. Presumably to avoid being shot down, as he travels the globe with his begging bowl.
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
So you agree that Russia are actually fighting a proxy war against NATO and it was NATO's intention all along to dispose of Putin and get Russia on a leash?
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
So you agree that Russia are actually fighting a proxy war against NATO and it was NATO's intention all along to dispose of Putin and get Russia on a leash?
Ukraine’s Allies are NATO. The West saw that Ukrainians we’re going to fight for their country and NATO is happy to assist.
Sorry Vladdy picked the wrong hand, and is paying for his blunder. Get over it!
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Ukraine’s Allies are NATO.
Ukraine's biggest ally is Russia. too bad they can't see that and rather treat Russia as the enemy. Well they got their wish and now its their enemy.
Had the average Ukrainian done any research beyond "Russia bad" , they would have seen the billions, if not trillions of dollars Russia was pooring in to support them.
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Ukraine’s Allies are NATO.
Ukraine's biggest ally is Russia. too bad they can't see that and rather treat Russia as the enemy. Well they got their wish and now its their enemy.
Had the average Ukrainian done any research beyond "Russia bad" , they would have seen the billions, if not trillions of dollars Russia was pooring in to support them.
Sadly there is truth in your post. This war is on so many levels tragic.
In the end I think a nation should be free to pursue its goals and aspirations.
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Rumble Wagner Group Victory Video - Prigozhin thanking V.V. Putin for the Honor and Priviledge to serve and protect the Motherland - and severe criticism of Shoigu and Gerasamov...
https://rumble.com/v2p6u07-bakhmut-falls.html
Comments (in Britglish):
Zelensky is like the neighbor that shows up in the middle of your invited guests to your BBQ and wants to borrow your lawnmower and ends up staying and asking everyone of your guests for a loan. The way Zelensky behaves and how he looks in his casual dirty T-shirt is a textbook <cocaine> junkie behavior symptoms, begging, lying & non-stop excuses for his failings and expenses and honestly everyone who ever lived with an addict recognizes these symptoms
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
So you agree that Russia are actually fighting a proxy war against NATO and it was NATO's intention all along to dispose of Putin and get Russia on a leash?
Ukraine’s Allies are NATO. The West saw that Ukrainians we’re going to fight for their country and NATO is happy to assist.
Sorry Vladdy picked the wrong hand, and is paying for his blunder. Get over it!
Get over what? It's you who's sounding all emotional about it, rather than seeing the big picture.
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
So you agree that Russia are actually fighting a proxy war against NATO and it was NATO's intention all along to dispose of Putin and get Russia on a leash?
Ukraine’s Allies are NATO. The West saw that Ukrainians we’re going to fight for their country and NATO is happy to assist.
Sorry Vladdy picked the wrong hand, and is paying for his blunder. Get over it!
Get over what? It's you who's sounding all emotional about it, rather than seeing the big picture.
I am not whining about NATO supplying weapons to an ally. You are attempting to frame this as a Proxy war. It is a poorly behaved bully who is getting his comeuppance.
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
I am not sure about the battle for Kiev, Kharkov, or Khertson
It might happen that they will ask Putin one day to accept them to Russian Federation…
I know for sure that significance of the battle for Bahmut/Artemovsk in demonstrating to the world how criminals with shovels can defeat Nato trained and equipped army.
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Rumble Wagner Group Victory Video - Prigozhin thanking V.V. Putin for the Honor and Priviledge to serve and protect the Motherland - and severe criticism of Shoigu and Gerasamov...
I was wondering who was going to notice that.
Yes, Prigozhin said that two top Russian military officials Shoigu and Gerasimov were playing in the Ukrainian side.
He said because of them he lost five times more people than he could. He supported that statement with numbers.
On another note, Prigozhin became very popular and influential in Russia.
He said he is going to rest and retrain his private army.
In fact, he is going in shade because of president’s election campaign that has already started in Russia.
It’s a part of a plan.
Russia consolidates to have only one candidate: Putin.
Elections will be in March 2024.
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It's now clear that the battle for Bakhmut has been won by Russia but predictably, our western media along with the Ukrainian propaganda department, are doing their best to repackage it as a loss.
The West is in denial.
It funny to see how they try to keep a good face and scared to death to be asked where all those money from our pocket go and why they have chosen a bloody clown Ze for the role to compromise the democracy idea.
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Finally, at least one country is talking a bit of sense. Denmark wants to host a peace summit in July, to try and bring an end to the war. They feel that Ukraine might now be willing to start discussions. From Sky News;
Denmark wants to host peace summit in July
Denmark would like to host a summit in July to work out how to bring peace to Ukraine, the country's foreign minister has said.
"If Ukraine finds that the time has come to have such a meeting, that would be fantastic," Lars Lokke Rasmussen said, according to Danish news agency Ritzau."Then Denmark would obviously like to host the meeting," he added.
As the war rages on, more and more countries have suggested meetings or peace plans to Ukraine and Russia in a bid to end the conflict.
China has called for a ceasefire in a 12-point paper, Pope Francis has hoped to send personal peace envoys and, most recently, South Africa arranged to send a mission of African leaders to meet Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Vladimir Putin to discuss a resolution.
Yeah…. The competition of efforts for peace has started after so much money spent and so many lives lost.
Money laundry is over.
Texans will be disappointed to be back to boring life……
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It's probably time Russia got Zelensky out of office.
In other news, Bakhmut is now secured and renamed back to Artyomovsk.
Seeing Russia’s success in Kherson, Kharkov or say Kiev, I doubt that Russia would be able to succeed. Anyways I thought they already tried this. Perhaps NATO should dispose of V. Putin?
So you agree that Russia are actually fighting a proxy war against NATO and it was NATO's intention all along to dispose of Putin and get Russia on a leash?
Ukraine’s Allies are NATO. The West saw that Ukrainians we’re going to fight for their country and NATO is happy to assist.
Sorry Vladdy picked the wrong hand, and is paying for his blunder. Get over it!
Get over what? It's you who's sounding all emotional about it, rather than seeing the big picture.
I am not whining about NATO supplying weapons to an ally. You are attempting to frame this as a Proxy war. It is a poorly behaved bully who is getting his comeuppance.
There was an official statement that Russia will negotiate peace ONLY with the USA directly.
Russia will not accept any other option.
This is a Proxy war.
I do not have time to look for the link now.
Search youself.
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There was an official statement that Russia will negotiate peace ONLY with the USA directly.
Russia will not accept any other option.
This is a Proxy war.
Lulz. They will negotiate only with the USA because it allows them to pretend they are still a super power (and really, were they? Or did they just have nukes and a big army?), instead of a gas station, run by the Mafia, with a shop that sells diamonds, gold and platinum.
Negotiating with Ukraine - the country they invaded - would be humiliating. That in and of itself would be an admission of defeat because they couldn't win on the battlefield.
B/B
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There was an official statement that Russia will negotiate peace ONLY with the USA directly.
Russia will not accept any other option.
This is a Proxy war.
Lulz. They will negotiate only with the USA because it allows them to pretend they are still a super power (and really, were they? Or did they just have nukes and a big army?), instead of a gas station, run by the Mafia, with a shop that sells diamonds, gold and platinum.
Negotiating with Ukraine - the country they invaded - would be humiliating. That in and of itself would be an admission of defeat because they couldn't win on the battlefield.
B/B
Vladdy is not going to negotiate anything. Unless he wants to polish his CV or perhaps select his spot in the Kremlin necropolis.
He has built his own bear trap and there he can stay.
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There was an official statement that Russia will negotiate peace ONLY with the USA directly.
Russia will not accept any other option.
This is a Proxy war.
Lulz. They will negotiate only with the USA because it allows them to pretend they are still a super power (and really, were they? Or did they just have nukes and a big army?), instead of a gas station, run by the Mafia, with a shop that sells diamonds, gold and platinum.
Negotiating with Ukraine - the country they invaded - would be humiliating. That in and of itself would be an admission of defeat because they couldn't win on the battlefield.
B/B
Vladdy is not going to negotiate anything. Unless he wants to polish his CV or perhaps select his spot in the Kremlin necropolis.
He has built his own bear trap and there he can stay.
Ordinarily I would agree with you. B.B.'s Rule of Russian Nationalism is: It is IMPOSSIBLE to overestimate Russian Nationalism.
That said, given their difficulties thus far, the Russians have indicated a willingness to negotiate, starting off with the faux position of getting everything they wanted without having to continue to fight, but the fact that they are willing would tend to indicate a subtext of: "Hey, we screwed up. We can't admit it, but we did. We know it. You know it. We know that you know we know it, and you know that we know that you know we know it. Can you help us find a way out?"
B/B
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Military briefing: Ukraine's daring ‘shaping operations' stretch Russian defences
https://www.ft.com/content/dfa2b8a4-4747-4eaa-8de6-dd238e45000e?desktop=true&segmentId=7c8f09b9-9b61-4fbb-9430-9208a9e233c8#myft:notification:daily-email:content
Russia pounds Ukraine with missile and drone barrage
https://www.ft.com/content/ce61ee12-fec6-43f4-8ff9-696ecbdd738c?desktop=true&segmentId=7c8f09b9-9b61-4fbb-9430-9208a9e233c8#myft:notification:daily-email:content
HOLD YOUR CHAIR...... Biden is playing his last crds before the usa economy bust
from the BRICKS
Poroshenko was already supplied with rockets......
and you poor Americans continue watchingthe tits on the right.......
:biggrin: :coffeeread:
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Negotiating with Ukraine - the country they invaded - would be humiliating.
B/B
It would be pointless to try now. Ukraine had months to negotiate, now it's too late. Russia isn't going to negotiate for land taken already or to leave some Nazis there. They need to cut the head off the snake now.
The goal is demilitarisation and denazification. That hasn't changed.
I'd question the idea by Orchid that they'd negotiate with the US. I haven't seen such written. And if they did, it would legitimise the US presence and intervention in the region and that would not serve their purpose. And anyway, the US doesn't want peace in the region.
If anyone rolls forward with some kind of deal, it will be Erdogan or Xi.
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There was an official statement that Russia will negotiate peace ONLY with the USA directly.
Russia will not accept any other option.
This is a Proxy war.
Lulz. They will negotiate only with the USA because it allows them to pretend they are still a super power (and really, were they? Or did they just have nukes and a big army?), instead of a gas station, run by the Mafia, with a shop that sells diamonds, gold and platinum.
Negotiating with Ukraine - the country they invaded - would be humiliating. That in and of itself would be an admission of defeat because they couldn't win on the battlefield.
B/B
Vladdy is not going to negotiate anything. Unless he wants to polish his CV or perhaps select his spot in the Kremlin necropolis.
He has built his own bear trap and there he can stay.
Ordinarily I would agree with you. B.B.'s Rule of Russian Nationalism is: It is IMPOSSIBLE to overestimate Russian Nationalism.
That said, given their difficulties thus far, the Russians have indicated a willingness to negotiate, starting off with the faux position of getting everything they wanted without having to continue to fight, but the fact that they are willing would tend to indicate a subtext of: "Hey, we screwed up. We can't admit it, but we did. We know it. You know it. We know that you know we know it, and you know that we know that you know we know it. Can you help us find a way out?"
B/B
Why would Russia negotiate with Ukraine when the world knows that it's not Ukraine calling the shots? When I first got into business my dad once told me, when selling to Tesco, dont negotiate with the toilet cleaner.
I saw Putin being interviewed on social yesterday (difficult to find the source on instagram reels) and he was talking about NATO using Ukrainians as cannon fodder to fight their war against Russia and how Russia now control much of the land where ethnic Russians had been persecuted and murdered by the western installed Ukrainian government. So in that respect much of their objectives are bing met.
If the so called Ukrainian offensive fails or doesn't materialise, the US economy tanks and newly elected presidents decide they can no longer waste $100's of billions in a stalemate, Ukrainian support will drop and Russia will win the war of attrition. I don't think Russia needs to take much more of Ukraine if thats what they want, just wait for a western crisis to develop and watch NATO walk away. Without NATO support, Ukraine would be run over in weeks.
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An analyst on Sky News has been talking about Russia's strategy when it comes to Ukrainian air defence. The last 3 nights have seen heavy attacks on Kiev and other key cities. He reckons that Russia are forcing Ukraine to use their limited supply of extremely expensive air defence systems, to shoot down relatively cheap rockets and drones. Again, another nod to the war of attrition with the West unable to physically keep supplying super expensive weapons, to meet the demand.
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An analyst on Sky News has been talking about Russia's strategy when it comes to Ukrainian air defence. The last 3 nights have seen heavy attacks on Kiev and other key cities. He reckons that Russia are forcing Ukraine to use their limited supply of extremely expensive air defence systems, to shoot down relatively cheap rockets and drones. Again, another nod to the war of attrition with the West unable to physically keep supplying super expensive weapons, to meet the demand.
From different sources I have read the same. In the end though it will come down to boots on the ground and the better disciplined and trained.
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An analyst on Sky News has been talking about Russia's strategy when it comes to Ukrainian air defence. The last 3 nights have seen heavy attacks on Kiev and other key cities. He reckons that Russia are forcing Ukraine to use their limited supply of extremely expensive air defence systems, to shoot down relatively cheap rockets and drones. Again, another nod to the war of attrition with the West unable to physically keep supplying super expensive weapons, to meet the demand.
From different sources I have read the same. In the end though it will come down to boots on the ground and the better disciplined and trained.
I also heard that the Russians took out another Patriot system. One more to go.
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An analyst on Sky News has been talking about Russia's strategy when it comes to Ukrainian air defence. The last 3 nights have seen heavy attacks on Kiev and other key cities. He reckons that Russia are forcing Ukraine to use their limited supply of extremely expensive air defence systems, to shoot down relatively cheap rockets and drones. Again, another nod to the war of attrition with the West unable to physically keep supplying super expensive weapons, to meet the demand.
From different sources I have read the same. In the end though it will come down to boots on the ground and the better disciplined and trained.
I also heard that the Russians took out another Patriot system. One more to go.
That could be a bit of a problem because there no doubt that the Patriot is a high quality air defence system but at $1.1 billion a pop, its not like we can just keep shipping them over.
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1. Send cheap drones
2. Try to determine patriot location from the return shoots
3. Shoot down or incapacitate patriot system
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I also heard that the Russians took out another Patriot system. One more to go.
I won't be too fast believing that to be true.
According to our daily news, Russia seems to be only good at targeting and hitting hospitals and schools for some odd reason. I think the news only accounted for 9 dead Ukrainian soldiers after over a year. IINM, 3 suffered non-fatal injuries. This is likely why they're having a hard time advancing and accomplishing what they set out to do for over a year now.
They show this on TV here where we are literally on a daily basis. If you don't believe me, ask Tex...I'm sure he'll have a youtube link for this.
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I also heard that the Russians took out another Patriot system. One more to go.
I won't be too fast believing that to be true.
According to our daily news, Russia seems to be only good at targeting and hitting hospitals and schools for some odd reason. I think the news only accounted for 9 dead Ukrainian soldiers after over a year. IINM, 3 suffered non-fatal injuries. This is likely why they're having a hard time advancing and accomplishing what they set out to do for over a year now.
They show this on TV here where we are literally on a daily basis. If you don't believe me, ask Tex...I'm sure he'll have a youtube link for this.
I am sure he can.
My son in law was in Moscow just last week. He thinks is looks better than it did two years ago.
Go figure.
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FROM THE HORSES IT'S MOUTH
Ukraine's Fate is very close....)
Douglas Macgregor - The Last Stage:
Preparing for the Great Offensive
Col. Macgregor: Ukraine Is FALLING APART
As Putin Marches West !!!
it appears that the European output of Youtube is hiding these videos....
but thanks to a friend of mine.....in USA I can see them.
Just wonder how many other people have seen them?
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I also heard that the Russians took out another Patriot system. One more to go.
I won't be too fast believing that to be true.
According to our daily news, Russia seems to be only good at targeting and hitting hospitals and schools for some odd reason. I think the news only accounted for 9 dead Ukrainian soldiers after over a year. IINM, 3 suffered non-fatal injuries. This is likely why they're having a hard time advancing and accomplishing what they set out to do for over a year now.
They show this on TV here where we are literally on a daily basis. If you don't believe me, ask Tex...I'm sure he'll have a youtube link for this.
Sky News today has been reporting on the "anti Putin militias", quoting their commander who is planning more trouble and boasts that thousands more are willing to sign up. The bias is so obvious, they refuse to name the commander in the article because he's a far right Ukrainian and they report some of the facts whilst purposely refusing to point out the obvious.
They continue to label the group as a Russian militia yet quote him saying the following;
"We have mortars, armoured vehicles, stinger manpads, portable anti-tank systems and a highly effective drone reconnaissance unit."
Now unless you're retarded or Tex, that appears to be a group armed by Ukraine and supplied with Western weapons. The other option would be that Ukraine is selling the weapons we supply on the black market to the highest bidder, which also wouldn't be very palatable to the western public.
They must think we're all like Tex because its a huge piss take and insulting to anyone with a brain.
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There weapon source is captured weapons that Russia captures from Ukraine that are recaptured. So, they Russian supplied weapons. It the same stupid logic Russia uses all the time that you guy buy. Like the no matter what Russia blows up it is where Ukrainians solders were hiding. The war escalates to where every day Russians are more aware of it. A trend that is likely to continue. Get over it!
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There weapon source is captured weapons that Russia captures from Ukraine that are recaptured. So, they Russian supplied weapons. It the same stupid logic Russia uses all the time that you guy buy. Like the no matter what Russia blows up it is where Ukrainians solders were hiding. The war escalates to where every day Russians are more aware of it. A trend that is likely to continue. Get over it!
Poor Texan 77 it is obvious you have past the poind of no return.......
Stop looking the girls on the right ......... you may go blind!!!
Every time I read the board gou give the impression that you are going GA GA GA :ROFL: tiphat
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FROM THE HORSES IT'S MOUTH
Ukraine's Fate is very close....)
Douglas Macgregor - The Last Stage:
Preparing for the Great Offensive
Col. Macgregor: Ukraine Is FALLING APART
As Putin Marches West !!!
it appears that the European output of Youtube is hiding these videos....
but thanks to a friend of mine.....in USA I can see them.
Just wonder how many other people have seen them?
Wizz you KNOW we are NOT supposed to quote the Patriot Warrior Col PhD Douglas MacGregor because he tells the BRUTAL TRUTH ABOUT Ukraines collapsing logistics and Russia's overwhelming 7/24 War Munitions manufacturing capacity.
Col PhD MacGregor tells the Truth speaking Truth to the false power narrative of the NATO UK City of London Banksters intent on splitting apart Russia and manipulating the fractured Russian regions into harvesting their resources before the evil CCP gets there first.
Of course the Russians will nuke it all to dust before they allow the NATO UK City of London financial colonizers to colonize Russia to rape them for their women and natural resources.
This is why Putin invested in Modernizing his Nuclear Submarines and Hypersonic Nuclear Missiles Forces. Lookup Poseidon 100Megaton Nuclear UUV. It creates a 1000 Meter Thermo-Nuclear Tsunami wiping out 2,000 plus kilometers of coastline already positioned near the destroyed Nordstream pipelines, the City of London/Thames and the USA Atlantic and Pacific Coastlines.
You Nattering NATO nincompoops will push the Russians until they decide to give you a nuclear corrective jerk. Hope you can surf a 1,000 Meter wave....
Do not blame the USA we are 6,000 miles away and being lead by a senile octogenarian - you lot should know better.
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There weapon source is captured weapons that Russia captures from Ukraine that are recaptured.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
It the same stupid logic Russia uses all the time that you guy buy. Like the no matter what Russia blows up it is where Ukrainians solders were hiding.
Join instagram Tex and follow Ukraine_defence. They post hourly and there's loads of footage of Ukrainian artillery in peoples back gardens or highways holding up traffic to fire at the Russians and then flee.
Return fire comes in and hey, look what Russia did. I suspect you're just trolling these days because this stuff is basic.
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There weapon source is captured weapons that Russia captures from Ukraine that are recaptured. So, they Russian supplied weapons. It the same stupid logic Russia uses all the time that you guy buy. Like the no matter what Russia blows up it is where Ukrainians solders were hiding. The war escalates to where every day Russians are more aware of it. A trend that is likely to continue. Get over it!
Tex you make it sound like Russia and Ukraine are playing marbles. Sorry to inform you soldiers and civilians are dying.
While I could point who I think is guilty that is not the point. Perhaps on your side not plugging in as much (blood & oxygen will reach your brain) and thinking a bit more would be useful.
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This is just simply galling. Is it really worth for Ukraine to be America's vassal state? For what?
What identity was Ukraine trying convey? A nation trying to remove itself from the grips of one just to jump into another - literally paying a huge price of life, limb and country in the process? Did Zelensky really had this in mind for Ukraine when he decided to run for presidency? Sacrifice his country at the US's bidding with its proxy war?
So now to what end can Ukraine recover from these? Would shiploads of Nuland cookies be ever enough? Where and what is the end game? Get more deadlier weaponry from our military industry and start bombing Russia's proper and return the favor?
To what end...?
Are these really illustration of 'defending' and 'winning' a war?
These are the end result halfway around the globe from our 2020 election. Half of our population voted for Joe Biden, voted for this for Ukraine, to continue what Obama started there in 2014.
Gawd I really wish this senseless war to stop.
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I also heard that the Russians took out another Patriot system. One more to go.
They've destroyed about twice as many Patriot systems as have been sent.
The Russkiys started taking out Hymars a month before they had entered
the country and they have destroyed far more of them than Ukraine had.
I can show you reports even better about Bradley Fighting vehicles. Those
Bradleys are missile magnets.
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This is just simply galling. Is it really worth for Ukraine to be America's vassal state? For what?
Because America is not seizing their territory and raining missiles down on civilians and such. Not sure why this would be a difficult choice.
What identity was Ukraine trying convey? A nation trying to remove itself from the grips of one just to jump into another - literally paying a huge price of life, limb and country in the process?
The price is being IMPOSED on them by Russia, which could have MIOFB and NOT invaded them. Simples. When Russia invades you, who can you turn to for help? Also simples.
Where and what is the end game?
Eventually Russia will be forced to end its war of aggression in Ukraine, and Ukraine will join the EU and NATO.
There is a REASON that basically all of the former Warsaw Pact Member joined NATO the very SECOND they were allowed to. Because of the Holodomor. Because of the Kazakh famine - Russia turned the Kazakhs into an ethnic minority in a country literally NAMED Kazakhstan. Hungary in 1956. Czechoslovakia in 1968. Afghanistan in 1979. Poland declared martial law in 1981 to avoid an invasion. Georgia in 2008. Ukraine in 2014 and 2022.
Russia is NOT a good neighbor. Russia basically convinced Finland and Sweden to join NATO (Finland is in, Sweden is pending because of Turkey), and he has done more to unite NATO than Lester B. Pearson who had the idea of NATO.
Gawd I really wish this senseless war to stop.
Me, too. Call Putin. It was his move. Ukraine got INVITED to have a war.
B/B
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This is just simply galling. Is it really worth for Ukraine to be America's vassal state? For what?
Because America is not seizing their territory and raining missiles down on civilians and such. Not sure why this would be a difficult choice.
What identity was Ukraine trying convey? A nation trying to remove itself from the grips of one just to jump into another - literally paying a huge price of life, limb and country in the process?
The price is being IMPOSED on them by Russia, which could have MIOFB and NOT invaded them. Simples. When Russia invades you, who can you turn to for help? Also simples.
Where and what is the end game?
Eventually Russia will be forced to end its war of aggression in Ukraine, and Ukraine will join the EU and NATO.
There is a REASON that basically all of the former Warsaw Pact Member joined NATO the very SECOND they were allowed to. Because of the Holodomor. Because of the Kazakh famine - Russia turned the Kazakhs into an ethnic minority in a country literally NAMED Kazakhstan. Hungary in 1956. Czechoslovakia in 1968. Afghanistan in 1979. Poland declared martial law in 1981 to avoid an invasion. Georgia in 2008. Ukraine in 2014 and 2022.
Russia is NOT a good neighbor. Russia basically convinced Finland and Sweden to join NATO (Finland is in, Sweden is pending because of Turkey), and he has done more to unite NATO than Lester B. Pearson who had the idea of NATO.
Gawd I really wish this senseless war to stop.
Me, too. Call Putin. It was his move. Ukraine got INVITED to have a war.
B/B
Well, I'm happy to note, like you, I am also entitled to an opinion. Much different than you however.
I am also happy to note that you now seem to admit we are again, in fact, guilty of another infamous regime change. Excellent progress!
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Not a 100% sure but I thing patriot system #3 is no longer.
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Eventually Russia will be forced to end its war of aggression in Ukraine, and Ukraine will join the EU and NATO.
Unless there's a dramatic swing somewhere, I simply cant see Russia giving up and allowing that to happen. They would rather drag this out for decades before allowing the west to control, arm and militarise Ukraine with anti Russian armed forces.
I reckon Ukraine will be carved up in an eventual peace deal with the West joining the EU but not NATO and the disputed territories being brought under the Russian flag. We're all going to get fed up with this sooner or later and the west doesn't actually care about Ukraine anyway.
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Not a 100% sure but I thing patriot system #3 is no longer.
If a Kinzhal missile hit a Patriot system, I'm sure Zelensky would tell the west that they successfully destroyed the Kinzhal :ROFL:
Yea there's plenty out there when you look it up but neither Ukraine or the US will ever admit to it, if that's the case. There's some Youtube videos showing the air defence system working away and then a massive strike hitting the ground near where the defence systems were working, lighting up the whole skyline. Some suggest this was a counter strike after locating the patriot, others will claim its a petrol station or a block of apartments etc.
There's also an interesting article from Military watch magazine:
Patriot Radar Station and Five Missile Batteries Destroyed in Russian Hypersonic Strike on Kiev
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/patriot-station-batteries-destroyed-hypersonic
When Ukraine claim to be downing all 30/40 Russian missiles every night, one can only assume that it's the same source who tell's us that only 14,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or injured.
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Well, I'm happy to note, like you, I am also entitled to an opinion. Much different than you however.
You are entitled to your own opinion...but you are not entitled to your own facts.
I am also happy to note that you now seem to admit we are again, in fact, guilty of another infamous regime change. Excellent progress!
It boggles my mind that Westerners are so often incapable of understanding that other people in other countries have agency to do what they would like. When Russia illegally seized and annexed Crimea, they took a number of pro-Russian voters with them, so they effectively creates a smaller, anti-Russian Ukraine. So long as that is the case, Ukraine will be western-facing and anti-Russian. Russia did this to itself.
And speaking of things Russia did the "BUT THAT NULAND WOMAN! SHE GAVE THEM DOUGHNUTS!" crowd gets Amnesia when it comes to Russian interference in Ukraine's elections, illegal Russian referendums, etc.
Unless there's a dramatic swing somewhere, I simply cant see Russia giving up and allowing that to happen.
Russia does not have a veto over who joins NATO or the EU.
They would rather drag this out for decades before allowing the west to control, arm and militarise Ukraine with anti Russian armed forces.
That's what they were doing right up until the invasion and then it became the continuation of policy by different means (Hat Tip: Karl von Clausewitz)
I reckon Ukraine will be carved up in an eventual peace deal with the West joining the EU but not NATO and the disputed territories being brought under the Russian flag. We're all going to get fed up with this sooner or later and the west doesn't actually care about Ukraine anyway.
It depends what the United States is inclined to allow. If the US develops Ukraine-fatigue, then it is possible. If not, then no.
B/B
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It boggles my mind that Westerners are so often incapable of understanding that other people in other countries have agency to do what they would like. When Russia illegally seized and annexed Crimea, they took a number of pro-Russian voters with them,
Got any source for that? Because the region was already super-pro-Russia before 2014, before 2005, as a matter-of-fact , when the USSR fell apart in 1991, Ukraine already had to twist arms and legs, grant special powers and transformed Crimea into a republic under Ukraine or they'd have rejoined Russia back in 1991.
It boggles my mind that you keep overlooking that because of "illegal referendum" , never mind that those people never, ever wanted to be part of Ukraine and after 20+ years were still pro-Russia , despite Ukraine's best efforts to not-care-at-all and spend-0-money making Crimea the poorest region of all of Ukraine until the referendum.
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Unless there's a dramatic swing somewhere, I simply cant see Russia giving up and allowing that to happen.
Russia does not have a veto over who joins NATO or the EU.
I wasn't suggesting that they would do it in the chambers. NATO have said membership will happen after the war otherwise its WW3. If Russia are able, they'll only end the war, if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Time will tell but Russia wont end this will a loss unless something incredible happens.
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Unless there's a dramatic swing somewhere, I simply cant see Russia giving up and allowing that to happen.
Russia does not have a veto over who joins NATO or the EU.
I wasn't suggesting that they would do it in the chambers. NATO have said membership will happen after the war otherwise its WW3. If Russia are able, they'll only end the war, if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Time will tell but Russia wont end this will a loss unless something incredible happens.
And....if the EU and NATO are guaranteeing Ukraine entry into their clubs after the war, why would Russia not then just go for the whole country instead of the Eastern/Southern regions? Alright, there's a big question if they can beat a NATO armed Ukraine but if they can grind them down, why not just take the lot and remove the EU/NATO play from the table?
I dont think that the current language coming out of either the EU or NATO, is doing much to tee up sensible peace talks, which is tragic.
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Unless there's a dramatic swing somewhere, I simply cant see Russia giving up and allowing that to happen.
Russia does not have a veto over who joins NATO or the EU.
I wasn't suggesting that they would do it in the chambers. NATO have said membership will happen after the war otherwise its WW3. If Russia are able, they'll only end the war, if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Time will tell but Russia wont end this will a loss unless something incredible happens.
And....if the EU and NATO are guaranteeing Ukraine entry into their clubs after the war, why would Russia not then just go for the whole country instead of the Eastern/Southern regions? Alright, there's a big question if they can beat a NATO armed Ukraine but if they can grind them down, why not just take the lot and remove the EU/NATO play from the table?
I dont think that the current language coming out of either the EU or NATO, is doing much to tee up sensible peace talks, which is tragic.
What if:
NATO says: 1 aug. 2023 Ukraine joins nato and russia has until then to send their boys home. Any attack after 1 aug. 2023 will trigger article 5
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Mark, NATO has made it clear over the past couple of days that Ukraine will not join NATO until the war is over. Even Zelensky has acknowledged this.
However, the scenario you describe is not how Article 5 works.
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You are entitled to your own opinion...but you are not entitled to your own facts.
B/B
I would've said I am disappointed you're still regurgitating a tire 'ol line, B/B.
But...source taken in consideration...
It boggles my mind that Westerners are so often incapable of understanding that other people in other countries have agency to do what they would like. When Russia illegally seized and annexed Crimea, they took a number of pro-Russian voters with them, so they effectively creates a smaller, anti-Russian Ukraine. So long as that is the case, Ukraine will be western-facing and anti-Russian. Russia did this to itself.
B/B
Another lame comeback.
Let's see, it boggles 'my' mind certain 'westerner' find it oh-so convenient to skip over 'cause and effect' in historical geopolitical tit-for-tats, no?
And speaking of things Russia did the "BUT THAT NULAND WOMAN! SHE GAVE THEM DOUGHNUTS!" crowd gets Amnesia when it comes to Russian interference in Ukraine's elections, illegal Russian referendums, etc.
B/B
Speaking of Ms. Nuland', she's currently in the heart of Africa spreading American-style *do as I say not as I do* democracy. Ukraine, Yemen, Iraq et all are done deals...need new commercial stooges.
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In continuing from above:
Ms. Charles, given the emerging humanitarian catastrophe, we need a plan to deliver assistance as quickly as possible to the people of Sudan* and empower civil society voices advocating against all odds—and at great personal cost—for democracy***.
Millions of lives in Sudan* and the Horn of Africa** are at stake, as are our strategic interests in the Horn of Africa** and the Red Sea Corridor**.
We need to put the democratic transition back (sic - guess what this particular statement mean) on track in Sudan*.
*Sudan for today (https://www.foreign.senate.gov/press/dem/release/sfrc-chairman-menendez-opening-remarks-at-full-committee-hearing-conflict-in-sudan-options-for-an-effective-policy-response)...still too many places to topple.
**Horn of Africa / Red Sea Corridor - What can possibly be in this region. Wait, oh yeah! Heheh.. (https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2010/3119/pdf/FS10-3119.pdf). Yah just can't let dem Chinese reap their 35%er...
***American-style democracy...the process which usually extoll hundreds of thousands dead and displaced...
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Because America is not seizing their territory and raining missiles down on civilians and such.
Actually, you have been doing exactly that by stealth since 2014.
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Because America is not seizing their territory and raining missiles down on civilians and such.
ERRATA
Actually, WE (USA Controlled by UK CoL Global Crown Banks) have been doing exactly that by stealth since 2014.
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if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Those are the only two options?
They don't have buffer zones with Finland, Estonia and Latvia or are those
disputed regions as well?
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if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Those are the only two options?
They don't have buffer zones with Finland, Estonia and Latvia or are those
disputed regions as well?
Finland, Estonia and Latvia did not bomb , shoot or otherwise lethally engage their own citizens for 8 years.
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if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Those are the only two options?
They don't have buffer zones with Finland, Estonia and Latvia or are those
disputed regions as well?
Finland, Estonia and Latvia did not bomb , shoot or otherwise lethally engage their own citizens for 8 years.
:thumbsup:
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if they get their buffer zone in the disputed regions either by force or peace agreement.
Those are the only two options?
They don't have buffer zones with Finland, Estonia and Latvia or are those
disputed regions as well?
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It looks like we are going to get our buffer zone in Belgorod as partisans continue to capture more ground and over run Russian army in Russia. :popcorn:
Wagner is moving his forces to Russia to fight partisans and Russia losses more ground near Bakhmut. That would be tens of thousands of fighters no longer in Ukraine.
Another day this three-day war is going according to plan.
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Finland, Estonia and Latvia did not bomb , shoot or otherwise lethally engage their own citizens for 8 years.
Russia did not annex Border parts of their countries nor did they send
little Green Men to help the the Border people break away from them
either. It would have been an act of war and article 5 would have been
invoked.
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Till the LAST UKRAINIAN [Documentary] 1 hour 45 minutes
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One could make a very convincing movie titled the last Russian. One line of thinking is this is the real reason behind the war. Russians as a people were disappearing before the war and now it is happening even faster. Ukraine has no choice but to fight the war. Russia will kill or force most of them to leave the country if they lose. So, the war goes on and Russia quickens its end. It looks like no chance for war to end in 2023 and 2024 is not looking good at this time.
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One could make a very convincing movie titled the last Russian. One line of thinking is this is the real reason behind the war. Russians as a people were disappearing before the war and now it is happening even faster. Ukraine has no choice but to fight the war. Russia will kill or force most of them to leave the country if they lose. So, the war goes on and Russia quickens its end. It looks like no chance for war to end in 2023 and 2024 is not looking good at this time.
Its going to end a lot sooner and NATO will be shocked ...
https://rumble.com/v2quoli-may-29-2023-medvedev-guarantees-russia-will-nuke-america-if-biden-deploys-f.html
Pro Ukraine yet fairly factual line of Contact Map:
https://liveuamap.com/ ...No mushroom cloud icons yet...
https://rumble.com/v2rrc8i-medvedev-ukrainian-regime-has-to-be-destroyed.html
Mike Adams major Water Filter Testing Project for removing Cesium Nuclear Fallout isotopes... FROM NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDEON...
https://rumble.com/v2rn0s8-exclusive-health-ranger-to-announce-test-results-of-water-filters-for-cesiu.html
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Unless there's a dramatic swing somewhere, I simply cant see Russia giving up and allowing that to happen.
Russia does not have a veto over who joins NATO or the EU.
What is happening in Ukraine now rather proves that they do, certainly within their sphere of influence.
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Russia blows up dam and threaten cooling water for nuclear power plant and makes many cities without water. Floods residents both Russian controlled areas and Ukrainian areas along river.
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Russia blows up dam and threaten cooling water for nuclear power plant and makes many cities without water. Floods residents both Russian controlled areas and Ukrainian areas along river.
You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
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Russia blows up dam and threaten cooling water for nuclear power plant and makes many cities without water. Floods residents both Russian controlled areas and Ukrainian areas along river.
You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
And I wouldnt put it past them given all the lying and arse covering that has being going on. Solution.....just blame Russia!!
From sky news:
CIA 'knew about Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream three months in advance' - report
Stepping away from the Kakhovka dam for a moment, and a Washington Post report says the US knew Ukrainian operatives were planning to attack the Nord Stream pipeline three months before they did so. The newspaper reported this afternoon that the Biden administration was informed of a planned attack by a European intelligence service in June 2022.
The gas pipeline was attacked in September 2022 in what Western officials called a "dangerous act of sabotage". The Washington Post story came about after information was allegedly shared on the chat platform Discord by Air National Guard member Jack Teixeira. The intelligence report was based on information provided by an individual in Ukraine.
The CIA shared the report with Germany and other European countries in June. The report said that six members of Ukraine's special operations forces would use false identities and rent a boat. Then using a submersible vehicle, they would dive to the floor of the Baltic Sea and damage or destroy the pipeline and escape undetected.
German investigators now believe six individuals used fake passports to rent a sailing yacht and planted explosives that severed the pipelines.
So they knew all along yet allowed us all to believed that the nasty Russian's did it. Is this not a terrorist attack by Ukraine within the EU?? Surely they'll punish the Ukrainians for doing so and how can we now rule out Ukraine from the dam explosion?
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russia-counteroffensive-wagner-bakhmut-putin-12541713
:popcorn:
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Both Rooskies and Uookies accusing each other of destroying Kherson area Dam - in order to lower water levels in the Dniper river needed to cool the Zap Nuke Plants complex... - who benefits - Uookies because harder for Rooskies to cross a destroyed dam with T90s to give Z10%ski one last chance to pay Zalenski10%ski's Mafiya cut of the stolen billions in Biden Bux Zalenski has stashed away from Putin.
Sounds good to me.
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There is another possible scenario for the loss of the dam. Realize neither Russia and Ukraine gain any great advantage now. Perhaps the repeated shelling and other military bombing that caused the dams failure. Not sure what the straw is that broke the camels back.
Regarding the nuclear power plant it is already largely deactivated, a running garden hose is all that is needed presently to keep everything cool.
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You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
And I wouldnt put it past them given all the lying and arse covering that has being going on. Solution.....just blame Russia!!
From sky news:
CIA 'knew about Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream three months in advance' - report
Stepping away from the Kakhovka dam for a moment, and a Washington Post report says the US knew Ukrainian operatives were planning to attack the Nord Stream pipeline three months before they did so. The newspaper reported this afternoon that the Biden administration was informed of a planned attack by a European intelligence service in June 2022.
The gas pipeline was attacked in September 2022 in what Western officials called a "dangerous act of sabotage". The Washington Post story came about after information was allegedly shared on the chat platform Discord by Air National Guard member Jack Teixeira. The intelligence report was based on information provided by an individual in Ukraine.
The CIA shared the report with Germany and other European countries in June. The report said that six members of Ukraine's special operations forces would use false identities and rent a boat. Then using a submersible vehicle, they would dive to the floor of the Baltic Sea and damage or destroy the pipeline and escape undetected.
German investigators now believe six individuals used fake passports to rent a sailing yacht and planted explosives that severed the pipelines.
So they knew all along yet allowed us all to believed that the nasty Russian's did it. Is this not a terrorist attack by Ukraine within the EU?? Surely they'll punish the Ukrainians for doing so and how can we now rule out Ukraine from the dam explosion?
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russia-counteroffensive-wagner-bakhmut-putin-12541713
:popcorn:
I talked about a Ukrainian attack on the Nord Stream pipeline in another thread, but was shot down by my Blood Hand brother Weezer :)
I am uncertain why an attack on Nord Stream would indicate an attack on the Kakhovka dam, but okay, I guess. short term it could be helpful to the Russian military, long term it might mean the loss of the Crimea for Russia.
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You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
And I wouldnt put it past them given all the lying and arse covering that has being going on. Solution.....just blame Russia!!
From sky news:
CIA 'knew about Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream three months in advance' - report
Stepping away from the Kakhovka dam for a moment, and a Washington Post report says the US knew Ukrainian operatives were planning to attack the Nord Stream pipeline three months before they did so. The newspaper reported this afternoon that the Biden administration was informed of a planned attack by a European intelligence service in June 2022.
The gas pipeline was attacked in September 2022 in what Western officials called a "dangerous act of sabotage". The Washington Post story came about after information was allegedly shared on the chat platform Discord by Air National Guard member Jack Teixeira. The intelligence report was based on information provided by an individual in Ukraine.
The CIA shared the report with Germany and other European countries in June. The report said that six members of Ukraine's special operations forces would use false identities and rent a boat. Then using a submersible vehicle, they would dive to the floor of the Baltic Sea and damage or destroy the pipeline and escape undetected.
German investigators now believe six individuals used fake passports to rent a sailing yacht and planted explosives that severed the pipelines.
So they knew all along yet allowed us all to believed that the nasty Russian's did it. Is this not a terrorist attack by Ukraine within the EU?? Surely they'll punish the Ukrainians for doing so and how can we now rule out Ukraine from the dam explosion?
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russia-counteroffensive-wagner-bakhmut-putin-12541713
:popcorn:
I talked about a Ukrainian attack on the Nord Stream pipeline in another thread, but was shot down by my Blood Hand brother Weezer :)
I am uncertain why an attack on Nord Stream would indicate an attack on the Kakhovka dam, but okay, I guess. short term it could be helpful to the Russian military, long term it might mean the loss of the Crimea for Russia.
I wouldn't say that Nordstream indicates that Ukraine are responsible for the dam but I would say that after all the denial from Ukraine and the media, we can't be as quick to just automatically assume it was Russia.
Ukraine are just as capable even though they're the media's darling.
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I wouldn't say that Nordstream indicates that Ukraine are responsible for the dam but I would say that after all the denial from Ukraine and the media, we can't be as quick to just automatically assume it was Russia.
Ukraine are just as capable even though they're the media's darling.
I don't really want to post what Tucker Carlson thinks about this matter, but I'm going to... :chuckle:
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1666203439146172419?s=20
I love Lindsay Graham's quip (pp) "the best thing we spent our money on"
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I wouldn't say that Nordstream indicates that Ukraine are responsible for the dam but I would say that after all the denial from Ukraine and the media, we can't be as quick to just automatically assume it was Russia.
Ukraine are just as capable even though they're the media's darling.
I don't really want to post what Tucker Carlson thinks about this matter, but I'm going to... :chuckle:
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1666203439146172419?s=20
I love Lindsay Graham's quip (pp) "the best thing we spent our money on"
just watched Peter Zeihan, he was saying that the explosions that breached the dam were internal rather than external strikes...and since the Russians were in control of the dam.
dams are notoriously hard to take down by external attack. during WW2 special spinning bombs were designed and dropped in modified bombers to attack dams. in the Vietnam war mk14 torpedoes were used. I am uncertain that there are weapons specifically designed to take out dams (I suppose that you could use a MOAB, but Ukraine does not have that or the delivery system).
I suppose in the coming days or weeks more info will become available.
the dam breach does a number of things.
1)delays any amphibious attacks across the Dnipro for about a month (if there were going to be attacks across), but then makes it easier to cross after drying out.
2)lowered the water level to 4 canals, 3 of which irrigated water to about a 1/4 of Ukraine's crop land and one of those supplied water to Crimea.
all of this seems to be indicative of Russia having no intention of trying to keep the Ukrainian south.
Zeihan's vid has a few more details and opinions (are we looking at a 2nd Holodomor?).
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Russia blows up dam and threaten cooling water for nuclear power plant and makes many cities without water. Floods residents both Russian controlled areas and Ukrainian areas along river.
You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
And I wouldnt put it past them given all the lying and arse covering that has being going on. Solution.....just blame Russia!!
From sky news:
CIA 'knew about Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream three months in advance' - report
Stepping away from the Kakhovka dam for a moment, and a Washington Post report says the US knew Ukrainian operatives were planning to attack the Nord Stream pipeline three months before they did so. The newspaper reported this afternoon that the Biden administration was informed of a planned attack by a European intelligence service in June 2022.
The gas pipeline was attacked in September 2022 in what Western officials called a "dangerous act of sabotage". The Washington Post story came about after information was allegedly shared on the chat platform Discord by Air National Guard member Jack Teixeira. The intelligence report was based on information provided by an individual in Ukraine.
The CIA shared the report with Germany and other European countries in June. The report said that six members of Ukraine's special operations forces would use false identities and rent a boat. Then using a submersible vehicle, they would dive to the floor of the Baltic Sea and damage or destroy the pipeline and escape undetected.
German investigators now believe six individuals used fake passports to rent a sailing yacht and planted explosives that severed the pipelines.
So they knew all along yet allowed us all to believed that the nasty Russian's did it. Is this not a terrorist attack by Ukraine within the EU?? Surely they'll punish the Ukrainians for doing so and how can we now rule out Ukraine from the dam explosion?
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russia-counteroffensive-wagner-bakhmut-putin-12541713
:popcorn:
My gut instinct says Ukraine was involved in the sabotage of the pipelines.
That said the above is absurd, I am not aware of any Sailing Vessel with a submersible. A few private Motor Yachts do indeed have submersibles but I strongly doubt they can dive to the depth required and manipulate bombs over the pipeline.
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I wouldn't say that Nordstream indicates that Ukraine are responsible for the dam but I would say that after all the denial from Ukraine and the media, we can't be as quick to just automatically assume it was Russia.
Ukraine are just as capable even though they're the media's darling.
I don't really want to post what Tucker Carlson thinks about this matter, but I'm going to... :chuckle:
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1666203439146172419?s=20
I love Lindsay Graham's quip (pp) "the best thing we spent our money on"
To be fair, Tucker as ever raises many a good point, or at least something worthy of a discussion but none more so than around 6 minutes in when he talks about Americans like Texan77.
"Your support for Ukraine is mandatory until it's finished, support Ukraine or you're in trouble so shut up and support Ukraine"
"Tautologies were once considered an illegitimate argument not to mention hilariously stupid. Now everybody in power talks like that. Diversity is our strength, trans women are women, Zelensky is Churchill. It's all self evidently true, it doesn't need an explanation and don't ask questions"
"By this point it's possible that Americans are the least informed people in the world. Your average yak herder in Tajikistan knows who blew up the nordstream pipeline its obvious. Does he think some skinny dude in a dress is actually a girl? That idea would never occur to him because you need to be lied to at full volume over a period of years in order to reach conclusions like that"
"of course we have been, the media lie but mostly they just ignore the stories that matter. What happened to the hundreds of billions of US dollars we've sent to Ukraine?"
And on it goes. Tucker is hilarious but he does hit a note. I had to quote because people like Tex refuse to listen to what he has to say, because they're trained not to.
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just watched Peter Zeihan, he was saying that the explosions that breached the dam were internal rather than external strikes...and since the Russians were in control of the dam.
dams are notoriously hard to take down by external attack. during WW2 special spinning bombs were designed and dropped in modified bombers to attack dams. in the Vietnam war mk14 torpedoes were used. I am uncertain that there are weapons specifically designed to take out dams (I suppose that you could use a MOAB, but Ukraine does not have that or the delivery system).
I suppose in the coming days or weeks more info will become available.
the dam breach does a number of things.
1)delays any amphibious attacks across the Dnipro for about a month (if there were going to be attacks across), but then makes it easier to cross after drying out.
2)lowered the water level to 4 canals, 3 of which irrigated water to about a 1/4 of Ukraine's crop land and one of those supplied water to Crimea.
all of this seems to be indicative of Russia having no intention of trying to keep the Ukrainian south.
Zeihan's vid has a few more details and opinions (are we looking at a 2nd Holodomor?).
I wouldn't rule either country out, doing the deed but I would rather wait for some kind of real evidence before pointing the finger. Zelensky says its Russia so our media say its Russia.
The alternative needs to be asked however. Why would a Russian built dam, sitting in a Russian controlled part of Ukraine, holding back all that water from ethnic Russian communities and supplying Russian controlled Crimea, be destroyed by Russia?
To thwart a Ukrainian offensive? Possibly. But it does seem all a bit dramatic given that Russia had dug in heavy defensive lines and already successfully destroyed a large Ukrainian military offensive on Monday.
Time will tell....well hopefully but I'm reluctant to just assume it's Russia because that's what our media and Zelensky are telling us. After all, we just found out the real truth about Nordstream having watched the CIA and a number of European countries let us believe it was Russia, whilst sitting on the truth.
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There is another possible scenario for the loss of the dam. Realize neither Russia and Ukraine gain any great advantage now. Perhaps the repeated shelling and other military bombing that caused the dams failure. Not sure what the straw is that broke the camels back.
Regarding the nuclear power plant it is already largely deactivated, a running garden hose is all that is needed presently to keep everything cool.
Nuke Plants update - iirc 4 to 6 major reactors - all but one in "Safe Mode" still require thousands of gallons of cool water per hour in safe mode, one in generation mode supplying power to Novo Rossiya oblasts and Crimea - NO power to UA or EU. So Uookies with British SAS most likely saboteurs of the Dam as they derive no benefit from the plants.
Basically Z10%ski giving the giant middle finger to Russia.
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So the argument against Russia blowing the dam currently looks like;
Why would a Russian built dam, sitting in a Russian controlled part of Ukraine, holding back all that water from ethnic Russian communities, supplying water to Russian controlled Crimea and also cutting off power to Russian held territory, be destroyed by Russia?
Further more, Mr Kofman from the US based CNA think tank, doubts that the flood will hinder Ukrainian forces too much and that attempting to risk crossing the river before was low and there was no evidence that a plan was in place.
And that the dam flooding would probably destroy the first line of Russias defensive entrenchment. Moscow held the east bank whilst Ukraine had the west. Some things really don't make sense if Russia have done it.
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There is another possible scenario for the loss of the dam. Realize neither Russia and Ukraine gain any great advantage now. Perhaps the repeated shelling and other military bombing that caused the dams failure. Not sure what the straw is that broke the camels back.
Regarding the nuclear power plant it is already largely deactivated, a running garden hose is all that is needed presently to keep everything cool.
Nuke Plants update - iirc 4 to 6 major reactors - all but one in "Safe Mode" still require thousands of gallons of cool water per hour in safe mode, one in generation mode supplying power to Novo Rossiya oblasts and Crimea - NO power to UA or EU. So Uookies with British SAS most likely saboteurs of the Dam as they derive no benefit from the plants.
Basically Z10%ski giving the giant middle finger to Russia.
From the nuclear regulatory agency Vienna as reported by Reuters: “the facility in southern Ukraine, Europe's largest, has 15 days' worth of fuel to run the generators, Energoatom said.
Although the six reactors are shut down, they still need a constant supply of electricity to keep the nuclear fuel inside cool and prevent disaster.”
The fuel is diesel that runs pumps forcing water into the facility to keep the fuel rods cool.
I am more convinced that the dam failed because of repeated shelling from both sides.
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Videos of the damn at the time of the explosion appeared to come from INSIDE the hydro electric plant. Having lived with turbines in our engine room for years, turbines for a hydro electric dam will vibrate and seize due to failed bearings and NOT explode.
This looked like it was sabotaged like an old fashioned war movie from the INSIDE. It was a very large explosion. Had all the earmarks of a UK SAS op similar to the Kerch Straits Bridge explosion. Other possibility was Ukraine used a large remote 1,000lb AI boat bomb (similar to the ones used in Sevastopol) on the lake side and then used the force of water to do the rest after it exploded upon contact with the Hydro-plant.
WTF, Now the Turks want an investigation due to impacts on the Black Sea???
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With our media and Ukraine playing down the true loss of lives in their military, many estimates are running between 400,000 - 700,000 dead or injured fighters. As a result, Ukraine are ramping up efforts to have teenagers living in the EU returned and old men clawed back from safety, in order to continue the fight. The BBC wrote an article about the risk deserters face and there are a few very interesting points made.
Firstly, the corruption is still rife and many wealthy people pay monthly fee's to avoid conscription. Grease the right palms and you'll avoid the meat grinder.
"Enforcing the draft in Ukraine can be difficult and corruption is recognised as a major problem by the authorities. Reliable sources in western Ukraine speak of the existence of a "monthly rate" - a payment made to keep someone out of the army.
There are also reports from the Ukrainian frontlines, of commanders asking the recruitment office to stop sending them men who don't want to or are too scared to fight. They are just a burden in battle."
Then we hear about the true rate of attrition, which is heavily played down in our media. One Ukrainian man tells the truth.
"His first night in the trenches was the worst. That was in March last year, a month after the war started.
"We had 27 dead and 57 injured." He flicks through images on his phone of his former comrades. His forehead crumples as he does so and his big hands shake.
"All these people are dead, except me and that one" - he points to a woman in camouflage fatigues.
But many men see fleeing to another country illegally as their only chance of avoiding combat."
And finally we hear about the lengths the Ukrainian givernemt go to, in order to stop people feeling conscription.
"The Ukrainian army stops cars and buses every dozen kilometres on the road beside the Tisa river, looking for draft dodgers. Their database, chaotic at the start of the war, is improving."
The Ukrainian Border Police recently reported that they are detaining up to 20 men a day. The BBC has approached the Armed Forces of Ukraine for comment on rates of desertion and draft dodging.
But according to the Romanian immigration authority, 6,200 Ukrainian men of military age have crossed the 600 km (373 mile) border into Romania illegally since Russia's full-scale invasion last year and been granted temporary protection.
Some 20,000 others made it there legally, armed with exemptions - sometimes paid for, sometimes not - and chose not to return.
He lost all his toes to frostbite, when he crossed the Maramures mountains from western Ukraine into northern Romania. He'd fled Ukraine when his call-up papers came. One of the four men in his group died
"What would you answer if someone called you a coward?" I ask, as gently as I can. "I have no country," he says awkwardly. "I just have a family."
She left her job and took her son to safety in Romania, a few weeks before his 18th birthday, to keep him out of the army. She shows me a photograph. A studious youth, with glasses and a Harry Potter look.
Some, like George, have battle wounds which re-open in the exertion of the border crossing. Others cut their feet on the barbed wire and broken bottles they claim the Ukrainian soldiers put in the water, to deter them.
And all the while, the west and Zelensky feel the need to throw innocent men and boys into the meat grinder because being turned into pink mist is better than letting Russia take the land, back from the hands of NATO. I've said it from the beginning, this should have been avoided and Russia should never have been provoked into invading Ukraine. Peace and human lives should have remained the priority but geopolitics and land appears to be more important than the well being of ordinary men and children. Just how many of them need to die in order for the West to win their proxy war?
You can always negotiate and win land back over the coming years but the death and destruction we see today is final. This Ukraine must win at all costs BS is horrific.
*From the western/Ukrainian pov.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65792384
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AvHdB, you might be correct except for one issue. The Russians were not shelling the dam. They had no need to do so. They had, for a long time, been in physical control of the plant. On the other hand, the Ukrainians had been shelling the dam and continued to do so even after the initial failure - there's plenty of video evidence of that occurring. We also know that the Ukrainians had successfully breached the floodgates last year using missiles but, according to them, had chosen not to complete the task at the time.
Cufflinks, a couple of hours after the dam broke, an unnamed local representative of the Ukrainian company running the hydro plant said that the turbines had failed catastrophically. I found only one English language source, the FT. It has now gone away.
However, it seems that a failure in what the spokesperson called the engine room, at least in the translation, is gaining traction in some high places in the West. As a compromise position, it enables the Western governments to gloss over Ukrainian input into the event. Given the timing of the original statement, it might even be true.
In support of the hypothesis that an overall weakening of the structure exacerbated a catastrophic failure, there is a video of the event as it happened. Also, the dam failed over time like a zipper undoing as water pressure caused the initial single span to open up as adjoining spans failed.
On the other hand, it is notable that before the failure, Ukraine had opened up the sluices on the next dam up the system and chose not to close them when the failure occurred, making the flooding significantly worse than it would have been had the Dnepr dam sluices been closed.
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While I am uncertain who mentioned, my excuses, that Turkey has demanded/requested investigation into the dam failure. This does make sense, the entire river from the Belarus border downstream is contaminated by fallout from Chernobyl. The highest concentrations are upstream from K y i v.
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While I have no desire to quote the entire article from ISW in short Ukraine forces were thrown back,
Ukrainian forces conducted a limited but still significant attack in western Zaporizhia Oblast on the night of June 7 to 8. Russian forces apparently defended against this attack in a doctrinally sound manner and had reportedly regained their initial positions as of June 8.
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You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
“The terrorist act at the Kakhovskaya Dam has left 94% of irrigated in Kherson region, 74% in Zaporozhye, and 30% in Dnipropetrovsk without a source of water,”
Everybody knows that Russia did it.
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Everybody knows that Russia did it.
You mean like everybody knew that Russia blew up its own gas-pipes in the baltic?
Sorry if I don't believe a single word until ~5 months after all the facts have come out.
If Russia did it, they severely shot themselves in their own asses.
- Military failure, all ramparts, mines and other defensive shit was washed out from the spillage
- Economic Failure , most of the area depended on that dam for multitudes of reasons
- Humanitarian Failure, as noted, many of the Russian-controlled areas suffered far worse than Ukraine.
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Mark, its like dealing with children,isn't it.
Why would Russia give up control of a thing over which they had control?
The Russians allowed the dam to generate power, they controlled the sluice gates. If they wanted a flood,they just needed to pull a lever. And, of course they could close the gates and control the flooding. Cant do that either, not now.
Destroying the dam removed control from Russians. Under what system of logic is that something that the Russians would do?
Of course, there's the Russians are evil and that's what evil people do. We can leave that one for Texan77 and other children to suggest.
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Crimea the poorest region of all of Ukraine until the referendum.
Surely you don't imply that life and poverty improved in Crimea after the referendum?
Promised prosperity never arrived in Russian-held Crimea, locals say
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea/promised-prosperity-never-arrived-in-russian-held-crimea-locals-say-idUSKCN10W0EM
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Why would Russia give up control of a thing over which they had control?
What you say is true. For that to happen it would have to be taken from them.
Did someone say that Russia was going to give it up? What's next? The Kuril
Islands?
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Crimea the poorest region of all of Ukraine until the referendum.
Surely you don't imply that life and poverty improved in Crimea after the referendum?
Promised prosperity never arrived in Russian-held Crimea, locals say
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea/promised-prosperity-never-arrived-in-russian-held-crimea-locals-say-idUSKCN10W0EM
My brother in law lives in Crimea and tells us that life is much better now that they are Russia and not Ukraine.
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Crimea the poorest region of all of Ukraine until the referendum.
Surely you don't imply that life and poverty improved in Crimea after the referendum?
Promised prosperity never arrived in Russian-held Crimea, locals say
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea/promised-prosperity-never-arrived-in-russian-held-crimea-locals-say-idUSKCN10W0EM
My brother in law lives in Crimea and tells us that life is much better now that they are Russia and not Ukraine.
For all my inlaws as well... roads, water, electricity, paychecks, overall quality of life has improved a lot
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For all my inlaws as well... roads, water, electricity, paychecks, overall quality of life has improved a lot
I wasn't aware, thank you for informing me. Stirlitz is my only contact that
had a life in Crimea.
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For all my inlaws as well... roads, water, electricity, paychecks, overall quality of life has improved a lot
I wasn't aware, thank you for informing me. Stirlitz is my only contact that
had a life in Crimea.
Stirlitz by his own admission has not been back to Crimea since 2014 when RU took over.
Its one of those things western press doesn't want to talk about, how much life has improved over there.
So all his info is last-seen 2014.
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You mean Ukraine blew it up in an attempt to cause a major water-shortage in the entire Crimea-Peninsula.
Russia is already asking the VN for a crisis-meeting.
Until the truth comes out, anybody with half a brain-cell can see both sides have strong motives to blow this dam
“The terrorist act at the Kakhovskaya Dam has left 94% of irrigated in Kherson region, 74% in Zaporozhye, and 30% in Dnipropetrovsk without a source of water,”
Everybody knows that Russia did it.
Is Everybody your last name? ;D
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In all likelihood somebody Russian did not understand what they were doing. Ukraine was crossing the river and they thought they were going to stop them without considering all the negatives of the consequences. The dam was under Russian control. Russia claimed they wired the dam back in November. The explosion came from within the dam. Russia raised the level of the water behind the dam just before the explosion. Ukraine was crossing the river when the dam was exploded. They stop Ukraine advance. The long-term effect in Crimea not important. If Ukraine was going to blow the dam, they would have done it six weeks ago before the offensive.
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In all likelihood somebody Russian did not understand what they were doing. Ukraine was crossing the river and they thought they were going to stop them without considering all the negatives of the consequences. The dam was under Russian control. Russia claimed they wired the dam back in November. The explosion came from within the dam. Russia raised the level of the water behind the dam just before the explosion. Ukraine was crossing the river when the dam was exploded. They stop Ukraine advance. The long-term effect in Crimea not important. If Ukraine was going to blow the dam, they would have done it six weeks ago before the offensive.
I'm not convinced you would have misunderstood the situation anymore, had you been locked in a dark room without access to the outside world, for 90 days.
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After seeing a couple of Mike Adams Health Ranger reports about possibilities of Global Nuclear WWIII between UK(CoL), USA, NATO and Russia/China... It dawned on me that Russians truly enjoy their country and wealth after a century of Communist Domination and even though they have upgraded their entire Nuclear Arsenal (Sun Tsu; when your adversary drills and prepares for war - they want peace through strength).
Radioactive Cesium Fallout best water filter from Mike Adams highly accurate gas chromatograph testing - I use a "Pur" faucet filter to reduce water company pipes and reservoir solids and then the Mike Adams BEST rated Zero Water filters that reduced 78,000 PPB of cesium non radioactive isotope for testing down to 2.50 PPB two point 5 (Parts Per Billion) best rated filters which rounds to 100% Zero Water ions elimination plus eliminates 100% of lead. I buy my Zero Water Pitchers and replacement filters on Amazon quite affordable 4 replacement filters approx $40.00 and last typically 90 days with my water quality - YMMV if you have particularly Hard Water in your wells or muni supplies.
https://rumble.com/v2rn0s8-exclusive-health-ranger-to-announce-test-results-of-water-filters-for-cesiu.html
https://rumble.com/v2sg20o-bbn-june-6-2023-pentagon-mobilizing-thousands-of-aircraft-for-wwiii-confron.html
https://rumble.com/v2t4d74-the-liberty-man-john-moore-reveals-intel-pointing-to-imminent-conflict-with.html
When your adversary professes peace in all diplomatic channels - they are secretly building for war (Hitler with Neville Chamberlain "Peace in our Times" and the CCP and bought off Joe Beijing Billions Biden Crime Family allowing 100,000 military age Stealth CCP PLA soldiers across our southern border for kinetic communist partisan destruction of the US electrical grid/water/anti police anti national guard terrorism INSIDE the USA.
WTF is the Point you ask? Point is to cause chaos and civil strife inside the USA before the 2024 election and to invade and destroy all US Nuclear Military bases to prevent launch against the CCP and their new subordinate commodities suppliers Russia.
By flooding the lower Dnieper west (Ukraine) and east (Russian) banks this may have delayed massive WWIII nuclear war between China/Russia and the UK/USA/NATO.
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trouble with the site ???????????????
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Is Everybody your last name? ;D
Millaa, nice to see you posting again. I am far from alone in believing this.
The man who posted the video is not related to me and listed numerous
reasons that this is the case. I will not profit in any way regardless of
who did it.
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Russia makes series of claims after Ukraine admits 'difficult week' in counteroffensive.
As we told you in our previous post, Volodymyr Zelenskyy has admitted that Ukraine had experienced a "difficult" week in its counteroffensive. Russia has now put out a series of claims via state media that indicate Ukraine suffered heavy losses of both troops and valuable military equipment in recent weeks.
Sergei Shoigu, the defence minister, claims Russia has destroyed a wealth of Ukrainian equipment, including:
15 unspecified aircraft
Three helicopters
920 armoured vehicles, including 16 Leopard tanks
He is also quoted by RIA as saying that Ukraine has lost 2,500 various pieces of weaponry since 4 June.
In addition to these claims, the Russian leader of the Zaporozhye region, Yevgeny Balitsky, claims around 20,000 Ukrainian troops have died fighting in the region.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-counteroffensive-putin-prigozhin-wagner-live-updates-blog-12541713
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The US and the Biden administration have finally shown their hand and essentially admitted that this is a proxy war against Russia. Today they've sent cluster bombs which are banned by 123 developed nations and Biden claims that it's because Ukraine are running out of ammunition.
Statistically, cluster bombs kill more civilians than soldiers, both during and after conflicts yet both the US and Ukraine are happy to use them. This was never about the Ukrainian people but a much sought after war to destabilise Russia.
Pretty sad stuff but the US has happily covered Vietnam, Cambodia and Korea with this barbaric weapon, killing generations of innocent souls. Where does it stop, biological, chemical or nuclear weapons?
The UK was quick to "discourage" the cluster weapon supplies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66142554
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The US and the Biden administration have finally shown their hand and essentially admitted that this is a proxy war against Russia. Today they've sent cluster bombs which are banned by 123 developed nations and Biden claims that it's because Ukraine are running out of ammunition.
Statistically, cluster bombs kill more civilians than soldiers, both during and after conflicts yet both the US and Ukraine are happy to use them. This was never about the Ukrainian people but a much sought after war to destabilise Russia.
Pretty sad stuff but the US has happily covered Vietnam, Cambodia and Korea with this barbaric weapon, killing generations of innocent souls. Where does it stop, biological, chemical or nuclear weapons?
The UK was quick to "discourage" the cluster weapon supplies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66142554
Russia's been using them against Ukrainian troops and civilians the whole war just as they used them against Chechnya. Goose meet Gander.
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The US and the Biden administration have finally shown their hand and essentially admitted that this is a proxy war against Russia. Today they've sent cluster bombs which are banned by 123 developed nations and Biden claims that it's because Ukraine are running out of ammunition.
Statistically, cluster bombs kill more civilians than soldiers, both during and after conflicts yet both the US and Ukraine are happy to use them. This was never about the Ukrainian people but a much sought after war to destabilise Russia.
Pretty sad stuff but the US has happily covered Vietnam, Cambodia and Korea with this barbaric weapon, killing generations of innocent souls. Where does it stop, biological, chemical or nuclear weapons?
The UK was quick to "discourage" the cluster weapon supplies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66142554
Russia's been using them against Ukrainian troops and civilians the whole war just as they used them against Chechnya. Goose meet Gander.
So the moral high ground has been abandoned and we're just as bad as them now, is that the new message? I assumed it was the good guy against the bad guys, democracy against tyranny and ethics above barbarism?
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Russia has been using cluster munitions in Ukraine since March of last year. There was I think in the UN some debate about this.
As for Moral Ground that slipped under the waves some 500 days ago.
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Turkey have released 5 commanders of the Avostal back to Ukraine, apparently reneging on a deal with Russia, that would have seen them out of country until the end of the war, following their capture. Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
[attachimg=1]
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Turkey have released 5 commanders of the Avostal back to Ukraine, apparently reneging on a deal with Russia.
Turkey will find it much, much more difficult in the future to do any kind of business with Russia.
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Interesting they are on a private aircraft (I assume jet).
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Interesting they are on a private aircraft (I assume jet).
Paid for by non other than us.
The US arms and trains the nazis, 10%ski cheerleads the nazis and the western world hates Putin for talking about them. It's a strange old time.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
I guess that means you have nothing of substance to back up your statement other than generic propaganda.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
Lazy person, they themselves identify as nazi. A fact thats usually questioned because it is so inconvenient to play hero.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
I guess that means you have nothing of substance to back up your statement other than generic propaganda.
Wrong again BC. Even a man of your caliber could do a little research and find a nazi connection. Tex 2.0.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
I guess that means you have nothing of substance to back up your statement other than generic propaganda.
Wrong again BC. Even a man of your caliber could do a little research and find a nazi connection. Tex 2.0.
It's your assertion to back up, not mine. If it is your opinion then that's fine. I don't bother with those.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
I guess that means you have nothing of substance to back up your statement other than generic propaganda.
Wrong again BC. Even a man of your caliber could do a little research and find a nazi connection. Tex 2.0.
It's your assertion to back up, not mine. If it is your opinion then that's fine. I don't bother with those.
That's why I suggest you do some research or re-read some threads on here. Every days a school day and I dont bother with lazy people.
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Had some free time so I did some checking. Regarding Denis Prokopenko he is a professional soldier (major) quite young for his rank. He has a strong hatred of the Soviets and present day Russian imperialism. The only other thing he was involved in a Nationalistic football (soccer) club in Ukraine. Hardly makes him a Nazi.
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Hmmm... Somebody's memory is deserting them.
In Ukraine, Nationalistic Soccer Supporters were the original neo nazis that morphed into the Nazi brigades this person serves with.
But yeah, rainbows and unicorns for the purposefully ill-informed or forgetful.
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
I guess that means you have nothing of substance to back up your statement other than generic propaganda.
Wrong again BC. Even a man of your caliber could do a little research and find a nazi connection. Tex 2.0.
It's your assertion to back up, not mine. If it is your opinion then that's fine. I don't bother with those.
That's why I suggest you do some research or re-read some threads on here. Every days a school day and I dont bother with lazy people.
Define whether your statement is an opinion or an assertion of fact. Those who are unwilling to substantiate their assertions are the lazy folks, Rosco. Reading threads filled with opinions do not establish any facts. I did my homework back then and don't need to do it again for you here. Have you done your homework?
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Had some free time so I did some checking. Regarding Denis Prokopenko he is a professional soldier (major) quite young for his rank. He has a strong hatred of the Soviets and present day Russian imperialism. The only other thing he was involved in a Nationalistic football (soccer) club in Ukraine. Hardly makes him a Nazi.
Some efforts were made to frame his wife as a Nazi. Don't know why anyone would go to that extent if Denys could be easily associated with Nazism
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/the-pope-met-an-identified-nazi-wife-of-an-azov-fighter
Those closely identifying as part of Nazi movements are present in many armed forces. US, UK, German, Austrian, Ukrainian, Russian, etc. Is guilt by association the measuring stick being used?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-nazis-far-right-extremism-b2191499.html
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html
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Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Google is your friend.
I guess that means you have nothing of substance to back up your statement other than generic propaganda.
Wrong again BC. Even a man of your caliber could do a little research and find a nazi connection. Tex 2.0.
It's your assertion to back up, not mine. If it is your opinion then that's fine. I don't bother with those.
That's why I suggest you do some research or re-read some threads on here. Every days a school day and I dont bother with lazy people.
Define whether your statement is an opinion or an assertion of fact. Those who are unwilling to substantiate their assertions are the lazy folks, Rosco. Reading threads filled with opinions do not establish any facts. I did my homework back then and don't need to do it again for you here. Have you done your homework?
Fact and google is your friend.
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I was surprised to find that there was such a major NatZee presence in modern Ukraine a former Stalinist Soviet Republic.
Then I discovered the roots of modern NatZee ideology in Ukraine based in hatred of Polish and Soviet repression of Native Western Ukrainians, Bandera allied with the Germans in WWII to kill off Jews, Poles and Soviet Russians. Modern Ukrainian NatZees trace back to this OUN Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists "Hero of Ukraine".
So Zalenski 10%ski being a smart Jewish Ukrainian Businessman has used the modern Bandera OUN brigades (Incl Azov Battalions and Lvov Battalions, etc.) to secure Hundreds of Billions in CASH and WEAPONS from NATO members to help City of London Crown interests and their NATO servants destroy Russia and break Russia into more easily financially colonized Regions by the CoL Rothschilds Globalist Banking Cartel.
Problem is nobody guessed Putin the Modern Russian Orthodox Christian Patriot would rapidly mobilize the old Soviet Military Industrial Complex and modern Russian Army to crush CoL/NATO/UK/USA and their Ukraine Bandera OUN NatZees on the battlefield.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
Personal details
Born Stepan Andriyovych Bandera
1 January 1909
Staryi Uhryniv, Galicia, Austria-Hungary (now Ukraine)
Died 15 October 1959 (aged 50)
Munich, Bavaria, West Germany
Manner of death Assassination by cyanide gas
Resting place Munich Waldfriedhof
Citizenship
Austria-Hungary (1909–1918)
Poland
Nationality Ukrainian
Spouse Yaroslava Bandera [uk]
Relations
Ołeksandr Bandera [uk] (brother)
Vasyl Bandera [uk] (brother)
Children 3
Parents
Andriy Bandera (father)
Myroslava Głodzińska [uk] (mother)
Alma mater Lvov Polytechnic
Occupation Politician
Awards Hero of Ukraine (annulled)
Signature
Military service
Allegiance
OUN (1929–1940)
OUN-B (1940–1959)
Battles/wars World War II
OUN
Main article: Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists
Bandera joined OUN in 1929, and quickly climbed through the ranks, becoming the chief propaganda officer in 1931,[citation needed] the second in command of OUN in Galicia in 1932–1933,[25]: 18 and the head of the OUN national executive in Galicia in June 1933.[9]: 99
In 1931, Polish politician Tadeusz Hołówko was assassinated by two members of the OUN. Although there is no direct implication of Bandera's involvement in his assassination, Bandera is known to have expanded the OUN's network in the borderlands between Poland and today's Ukraine, known as Kresy, directing it against both Poland and the Soviet Union. An internal CIA report from 1946 stated that from 1932 Bandera was assistant chief of OUN and around that time controlled several "warrior units" in Poland in places such as the Free City of Danzig (Wolne Miasto Gdańsk), Drohobycz, Lwów, Stanisławów, Brzezany, and Truskawiec.[25]: 18 Bandera collaboratorated closely with Richard Yary, who would later side with Bandera and help him form OUN-B.
To stop expropriations, Bandera turned OUN against the Polish officials who were directly responsible for anti-Ukrainian policies.[citation needed] Activities ranged from terrorist acts, such as attacks on post-offices, bomb-throwing at Polish exhibitions and murders of policemen[25]: 18–19 [26] to mass campaigns against Polish tobacco and alcohol monopolies and against the denationalization of Ukrainian youth.[citation needed] In 1934 Bandera was arrested in Lwów and tried twice: first, concerning involvement in a plot to assassinate the minister of internal affairs, Bronisław Pieracki, and second at a general trial of OUN executives. He was convicted of terrorism and sentenced to death. The death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment.[9][2]
Press report from the trial of Bandera and his associates for the murder of Polish minister Bronisław Pieracki, November 20, 1935
After the trials, Bandera became renowned and admired among Ukrainians in Poland and abroad[citation needed] as a symbol of a revolutionary who fought for Ukrainian independence.[1]: 535 While in prison Bandera was "to some extent detached from OUN discourses" but not completely isolated from the global political debates of the late 1930s thanks to Ukrainian and other newspaper subscriptions delivered to his cell.[1]: 112
Bandera was freed from Brest (Brześć) Prison in Eastern Poland in early September 1939, as a result of the invasion of Poland. There are differing accounts of the circumstances of his release.[nb 6] Soon thereafter Eastern Poland was occupied by the Soviet Union. Upon release from prison, Bandera moved to Kraków, the capital of Germany's occupational General Government in the German-occupied zone of Poland,[1] where, according to Tadeusz Piotrowski, he established close connections with the German Abwehr and Wehrmacht.[11][10] There, he also came in contact with the leader of the OUN, Andriy Atanasovych Melnyk. In 1940, the political differences and expectations between the two leaders caused the OUN to split into two factions, OUN-B and OUN-M (Banderites and Melnykites) each one claiming legitimacy.[32]
The factions differed in ideology, strategy and tactics:[33] the OUN-M faction led by Melnyk preached a more conservative approach to nation-building, while the OUN-B faction, led by Bandera, supported a revolutionary approach; however, both factions exhibited similar levels of radical nationalism, fascism, antisemitism, xenophobia and violence.[1][34][35] The vast majority of young OUN members joined Bandera's faction, which was devoted to the independence of Ukraine, a single-party fascist totalitarian state free of national minorities[36][nb 7][37] and was later responsible for the ethnic cleansing,[38][39][40] pogroms,[9][41] implicated in collaboration with Nazi Germany[42][nb 8][43][11][8] and the Holocaust.[6][nb 9][44][45][5][46][nb 10][47][1]
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Had some free time so I did some checking. Regarding Denis Prokopenko he is a professional soldier (major) quite young for his rank. He has a strong hatred of the Soviets and present day Russian imperialism. The only other thing he was involved in a Nationalistic football (soccer) club in Ukraine. Hardly makes him a Nazi.
Some efforts were made to frame his wife as a Nazi. Don't know why anyone would go to that extent if Denys could be easily associated with Nazism
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/the-pope-met-an-identified-nazi-wife-of-an-azov-fighter
Those closely identifying as part of Nazi movements are present in many armed forces. US, UK, German, Austrian, Ukrainian, Russian, etc. Is guilt by association the measuring stick being used?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-nazis-far-right-extremism-b2191499.html
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html
Euvsdisinfo is a wellknown ukrainian propaganda channel
More info here
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5141063/ :censored: ers/
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Had some free time so I did some checking. Regarding Denis Prokopenko he is a professional soldier (major) quite young for his rank. He has a strong hatred of the Soviets and present day Russian imperialism. The only other thing he was involved in a Nationalistic football (soccer) club in Ukraine. Hardly makes him a Nazi.
Some efforts were made to frame his wife as a Nazi. Don't know why anyone would go to that extent if Denys could be easily associated with Nazism
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/the-pope-met-an-identified-nazi-wife-of-an-azov-fighter
Those closely identifying as part of Nazi movements are present in many armed forces. US, UK, German, Austrian, Ukrainian, Russian, etc. Is guilt by association the measuring stick being used?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/army-nazis-far-right-extremism-b2191499.html
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/12/neo-nazi-group-membership-may-not-get-you-booted-military-officials-say.html
Euvsdisinfo is a wellknown ukrainian propaganda channel
More info here
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5141063/ :censored: ers/
Other than your opinion of Euvsdisinfo, is there anything factually wrong with the information they posted?
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Hmmm... Somebody's memory is deserting them.
In Ukraine, Nationalistic Soccer Supporters were the original neo nazis that morphed into the Nazi brigades this person serves with.
But yeah, rainbows and unicorns for the purposefully ill-informed or forgetful.
It would not be any leap of imagination or reality to find Nazi elements in football teams from Moscow to Madrid.
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Svyatoslav Palamar was a founder of an ultra Nationalist group. There are a number of accusations from about 15 years ago that involve violence directed towards minorities. More recently he has withdrawn from politics and been involved in the military, attached the Azov betalion.
It should be noted that the insignia of Azov is sometimes considered a Nazi symbol in fact it is a stylized IN, meaning Idea of the Nation. ed
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It should be noted that the insignia of Azov is sometimes considered a Nazi symbol in fact it is a stylized IN, meaning Idea of the Nation.
The symbol used in Ukraine is the Nazi symbol turned 90 degrees, becoming the IN.
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Other than your opinion of Euvsdisinfo, is there anything factually wrong with the information they posted?
Oh you mean the fact that they got sued in open court and lost and had to post a "rectification" for spreading dis-information themselves with the aggrieved party being a huge weblog in the Netherlands "geenstijl.nl" , yeah I can see how that would be uncomfortable for them.
And that would be the factually wrong part, she is indeed a neo-nazi and trying to whitewash it is a shame on the moral high ground. Just like he is a neo-nazi, openly admitted himself. of course, the 'rectification' now is nowhere near visible anymore since judges aren't looking at the website anymore and 'perpetually' was not in the wording of the court.
more info on that here : https://www.villamedia.nl/artikel/eu-moet-valse-beschuldiging-van-desinformatie-door-geenstijl-verwijderen
By judging the coverage as pro-Kremlin, the EU itself is guilty of spreading false information and propaganda, says Kennedy Van der Laan. GeenStijl's reporting was based on reports from various official bodies. The letter also states that the EU task force has allowed itself to be put to the test by Ukrainian lobby groups.
Kennedy Van der Laan therefore demands that the false accusation be permanently removed and that a correction be made before January 31 in connection with the reputational damage suffered.
And yes, geenstijl & company won this case.
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It should be noted that the insignia of Azov is sometimes considered a Nazi symbol in fact it is a stylized IN, meaning Idea of the Nation.
The symbol used in Ukraine is the Nazi symbol turned 90 degrees, becoming the IN.
Just like the nazi-cross is in fact not a nazi symbol but simply the indian sun god turned backwards right? I can see how that can be confusing to people trying to deny nazism.
But its more than just symbolism, its the whole action part as well. Openly racist, facist, cruel deeds towards non-ukrainians, outright bullying judges in getting favorable rulings for them, the list goes on and on and ticks all the boxes of 'nazi'.
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And yes, geenstijl & company won this case.
Full complaint to the court here :
(https://uploads.gscdn.nl/uploads/9c3a4249f7_CD_EU1.jpg)
(https://uploads.gscdn.nl/uploads/eb572d00a9_CD_EU2.jpg)
(https://uploads.gscdn.nl/uploads/08a0b257b0_CD_EU3.jpg)
Read them and weap.
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I doubt anyone can consider Ukraine a country that is governed by the rule of law. There have been efforts to come closer to Western European standards, but they are far from consistent or enough. On the other side, it appears Russia slips deeper into a kleptocracy.
As for the Nazis of Ukraine their power and influence appear to have diminished. They do not hold any seats in the Rada. The ‘Nazis’ were primarily interested in ill gotten gains and power.
Halo noted that the majority of the Central European nations disassembled the Soviet power structures upon the collapse of the Soviet Union. Where as nations such as Ukraine, Russia and Belarus are stuck with the new post Soviet power structure. This to some degree explains what occurred in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union
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Svyatoslav Palamar was a founder of an ultra Nationalist group. There are a number of accusations from about 15 years ago that involve violence directed towards minorities. More recently he has withdrawn from politics and been involved in the military, attached the Azov betalion.
Have a source for that?
That he was a member of the Patriot for Ukraine organization is no secret, but does not indicate whether he was part of the K h a r k i v faction that identified more with Nazi type symbolism etc.
https://will--live-com.translate.goog/svyatoslav-palamar-drug-kalina-zastupnik-komandira-polku-azov-nadvazhlivo-shhob-na-klyuchovih-posadah-v-armiyi-buli-oficzeri-yaki-zdatni-na-agresivni-diyi-mali-muzhnist-ta-shhos-mizh/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_of_Ukraine
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It should be noted that the insignia of Azov is sometimes considered a Nazi symbol in fact it is a stylized IN, meaning Idea of the Nation.
The symbol used in Ukraine is the Nazi symbol turned 90 degrees, becoming the IN.
https://www-0629-com-ua.translate.goog/news/717371/polk-azov-poasnil-znacenie-simvola-na-svoem-sevrone?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true
From this 2015 article
18:00, January 21, 2015
The Azov Regiment explained the meaning of the symbol on its chevron
According to the head of both organizations, Andrey Biletsky, when choosing the symbol, they were guided exclusively by the Ukrainian ego content without references to medieval German heraldry, and even more so - to the symbols of National Socialist Germany.
This was reported by the press service of the "Azov" regiment.
"The central figure of the Azov emblem is one of the symbols most commonly used in the Ukrainian military tradition." The so-called "Hook" sign was extremely popular among the Volyn nobility and Cossack clans. In the modern interpretation of patriots of Ukraine, it is a monogram, the intersection of two letters I and N, which symbolize our central slogan - "Idea of the Nation". The letter N has the old Ukrainian spelling in the monogram (this is how it was written in Old Russian and Cossack documents before the spelling reform of Peter's time).
As for the analogy with the German symbol "Wolfsangel", with which we are sometimes reproached. First, "Wolfsangel" has a visually distinct outline, and secondly, when choosing a symbol, we were guided exclusively by the Ukrainian ego content without references to medieval German heraldry, and even more so - to the symbols of National Socialist Germany. For us, the "Idea of the Nation" is an exclusively Ukrainian, Cossack symbol, and one should not pay attention to the imagination of those who want to find some other, mysterious meanings in it.
Historical reference :
The wolf's hook, one of the most interesting sub-runic symbols, was originally a pagan sign that "saved from werewolves." In the future, it became a heraldic symbol, meaning a wolf pit (hunting trap). It is still present on the coats of arms of many European cities, for example - Ervitt, Dassendorf, Burgwedel, Wolfstein. In the 15th century, the "wolf hook" became the emblem of several peasant uprisings, thanks to which it acquired the basic meaning of freedom and independence, and in military heraldry - force protection, protection of the owner, mirror reflection of any attack." - reports the press service of "Azov".
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It should be noted that the insignia of Azov is sometimes considered a Nazi symbol in fact it is a stylized IN, meaning Idea of the Nation.
The symbol used in Ukraine is the Nazi symbol turned 90 degrees, becoming the IN.
https://www-0629-com-ua.translate.goog/news/717371/polk-azov-poasnil-znacenie-simvola-na-svoem-sevrone?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true
From this 2015 article
18:00, January 21, 2015
The Azov Regiment explained the meaning of the symbol on its chevron
According to the head of both organizations, Andrey Biletsky, when choosing the symbol, they were guided exclusively by the Ukrainian ego content without references to medieval German heraldry, and even more so - to the symbols of National Socialist Germany.
This was reported by the press service of the "Azov" regiment.
"The central figure of the Azov emblem is one of the symbols most commonly used in the Ukrainian military tradition." The so-called "Hook" sign was extremely popular among the Volyn nobility and Cossack clans. In the modern interpretation of patriots of Ukraine, it is a monogram, the intersection of two letters I and N, which symbolize our central slogan - "Idea of the Nation". The letter N has the old Ukrainian spelling in the monogram (this is how it was written in Old Russian and Cossack documents before the spelling reform of Peter's time).
As for the analogy with the German symbol "Wolfsangel", with which we are sometimes reproached. First, "Wolfsangel" has a visually distinct outline, and secondly, when choosing a symbol, we were guided exclusively by the Ukrainian ego content without references to medieval German heraldry, and even more so - to the symbols of National Socialist Germany. For us, the "Idea of the Nation" is an exclusively Ukrainian, Cossack symbol, and one should not pay attention to the imagination of those who want to find some other, mysterious meanings in it.
Historical reference :
The wolf's hook, one of the most interesting sub-runic symbols, was originally a pagan sign that "saved from werewolves." In the future, it became a heraldic symbol, meaning a wolf pit (hunting trap). It is still present on the coats of arms of many European cities, for example - Ervitt, Dassendorf, Burgwedel, Wolfstein. In the 15th century, the "wolf hook" became the emblem of several peasant uprisings, thanks to which it acquired the basic meaning of freedom and independence, and in military heraldry - force protection, protection of the owner, mirror reflection of any attack." - reports the press service of "Azov".
A fantastic cover story but then all the documented photography from numerous occasions, showing skin headed men throwing HH salutes and having swastikas tattooed on their bodies, tends to tell us the real truth.
You simply asked for something connecting them to nazi's.......there's plenty.
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[attachimg=1]
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[attachimg=1]
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Oh look, a connection to Nazi's with only a few strokes of the keyboard yet BC spends time padding out 4 paragraphs worth of apologetic nonsense to clear the good name of Azov and its army. And here's a link from 2016, telling us how Congress has removed a ban on funding Neo-Nazi's including Azov.
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/
Looks like a solid connection to me and before you start with the old but but everyone has nazi's.........we're talking about the Ukrainian ones specifically. It's quite clear to everyone except the apologists, that the Azov are far right nazi's and their leaders who have connections to far right groups and nazi connections are in that photo I posted above.
The situation we have now is that our enemies enemy is our friend, so you guys are more than happy to fund, arm and train Nazi's to fight nasty old Russia on your behalf. Much like the US did with various terrorist organisations in the Middle East, it's hardly a new thing. In return, you'll whitewash the past, silence the truth seekers and make it more palatable so the plebs can get behind the big fight.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't true and if it comes out of Putin's mouth, you'll use it to discredit the truth.
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BC could also perhaps peruse this 34 page topic: Nazis in Ukraine (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
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BC could also perhaps peruse this 34 page topic: Nazis in Ukraine (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
Having read the first half of that topic again, some interesting fact begins to develop:
The nazi-are-rampant-in-ukraine bunch use many links, source media (often respectable places) and even google-image results.
The nazi-are-nonexistent-in-ukraine: all blobs of text without a single fact-link to back up their stories. (oh and lots of whataboutism meaning they on a subconsious level at least know its the truth.)
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Finally, a bit of back bone from our top brass.
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-not-an-amazon-delivery-service-for-weapons-to-ukraine-says-defence-secretary-ben-wallace-12919765
"The UK is not an "Amazon" delivery service for weapons to Ukraine and Kiev might be wise to let its supporters "see gratitude", Britain's defence secretary has said."
"The defence secretary said he did not believe this was the case, before describing how Ukraine is always asking for more even after receiving the latest batch of arms."
"There is a slight word of caution here, which is that whether we like it or not people want to see gratitude," Mr Wallace said in a briefing to journalists on the sidelines of the two-day NATO summit in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius."
The defence secretary said he too had told the Ukrainians in June last year that the UK was not the online delivery service when it came to supplying arms.
"I said to the Ukrainians last year, when I drove 11 hours to [Kiev to] be given a list - I said, I am not Amazon."
"He also said he warned them that they needed to provide better training for their troops to stop them from suffering such a high weekly rate of casualties as that would risk them losing political support."
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I get to read the daily MSM articles telling us how well Ukraine are doing and how badly Russia are losing. It's par for the course but after 15 months, some people actually believe it.
Anyway, I've been following some pages on TikTok and it tells a very different story. Drone footage of columns of destroyed western machinery and tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians. Interviews from Ukrainian POW's telling the camera how low moral is and how high the attrition rate is. We also get to hear about the recruitment drive in Ukraine from 3rd world countries as well as rounding up stray Ukrainian blokes, giving them a weeks crash course and then sending them to die on the front line.
All of this is absolutely horrific but its a very different tale to that being told from Ukrainian officials and repeated in our legacy media.
There's an analyst using the handle TheRealTruth62 (among others) and he describes the daily blood shed in detail with maps and footage. Basically, the Ukrainian offensive has been hammered in a pre set Russian trap and its losses unsustainable. The Russians have build a 3 tier defensive system to fortify their position along the full front and the Ukrainians are being destroyed in their grey zone sitting in from of the first tier. They've literally not even breached the first line of defence and they're talking about 40k-70k Ukrainian deaths in the last month alone.
Outside of the troops, minefields, fortified defences, air support and artillery, it appears that the real winner for Russia is their Lancet system. Picking off western tanks at will and targeting Ukrainian air defence systems so that the Russian air support can mop up what's left. The Russian troops and their body cams also pick up the reality which is a well equipped and trained Russian soldier.
Incredibly cruel for all on the ground and these scenes have been backed up by western interviews with foreign fighters, giving their accounts (see Sky News and the Irish Rambo bloke for one). What's really tragic is that the western propaganda wheels keep turning and people like Tex believe that all the Russians are drunk prisoners being slaughtered and Ukraine is winning the war. At this rate, Russia will be able to walk to Kiev without a fight, when Ukraine run out of bodies to sacrifice.
The politicians need to start talking about peace rather than Ukraine must win.
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I get to read the daily MSM articles telling us how well Ukraine are doing and how badly Russia are losing. It's par for the course but after 15 months, some people actually believe it.
Anyway, I've been following some pages on TikTok and it tells a very different story. Drone footage of columns of destroyed western machinery and tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians. Interviews from Ukrainian POW's telling the camera how low moral is and how high the attrition rate is. We also get to hear about the recruitment drive in Ukraine from 3rd world countries as well as rounding up stray Ukrainian blokes, giving them a weeks crash course and then sending them to die on the front line.
All of this is absolutely horrific but its a very different tale to that being told from Ukrainian officials and repeated in our legacy media.
There's an analyst using the handle TheRealTruth62 (among others) and he describes the daily blood shed in detail with maps and footage. Basically, the Ukrainian offensive has been hammered in a pre set Russian trap and its losses unsustainable. The Russians have build a 3 tier defensive system to fortify their position along the full front and the Ukrainians are being destroyed in their grey zone sitting in from of the first tier. They've literally not even breached the first line of defence and they're talking about 40k-70k Ukrainian deaths in the last month alone.
Outside of the troops, minefields, fortified defences, air support and artillery, it appears that the real winner for Russia is their Lancet system. Picking off western tanks at will and targeting Ukrainian air defence systems so that the Russian air support can mop up what's left. The Russian troops and their body cams also pick up the reality which is a well equipped and trained Russian soldier.
Incredibly cruel for all on the ground and these scenes have been backed up by western interviews with foreign fighters, giving their accounts (see Sky News and the Irish Rambo bloke for one).
No one ever wins a war of attrition.
What's really tragic is that the western propaganda wheels keep turning and people like Tex believe that all the Russians are drunk prisoners being slaughtered and Ukraine is winning the war. At this rate, Russia will be able to walk to Kiev without a fight, when Ukraine run out of bodies to sacrifice.
Well, this is the same basura our media and politicians fed us for 2 decades in Afghanistan. It had now come to light, literally after a year or two in that country, other than the search for OBL, no one knew any other reasonable objective why we were there. Soldiers were sent on a 'missions' void of objectivity. Americans ultimately became a source of hate for local Afghans and thus began siding with the Talibans en masse.
The politicians need to start talking about peace rather than Ukraine must win.
That ship sailed a long time ago. Zelensky will suffer from PTSD if the routine photo-shoot stops. Many more Ukrainians and Russians will die to prevent that from happening.
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You simply asked for something connecting them to nazi's.......there's plenty.
What I asked was:
Zelensky can be seen below, embracing the Nazi's.
Here are their names, Denis Prokopenko, Svyatoslav Palamar, Serghii Volynsky, Denis Chlega and Oleg Khomenko
Have any info defining or connecting them with Nazi's?
Your "plenty" is obviously lacking regarding these 5 individuals. Nothing you posted points to any of them being affiliated with or supporting some Nazi movement, cause or ideology. By the same measuring stick you are attempting to use, I can say that everyone in the armed forces of the US, and UK are Nazi's.
Using Putin's measuring stick, I could say that the US and UK are Nazi's as well.
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BC could also perhaps peruse this 34 page topic: Nazis in Ukraine (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
I perused that topic long ago. As with this topic, it's filled with a lot of opinions from all sides.
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BC could also perhaps peruse this 34 page topic: Nazis in Ukraine (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
I perused that topic long ago. As with this topic, it's filled with a lot of opinions from all sides.
You should get a job with the BBC.
We get it. You choose to believe that all the Ukrainians are all jolly, vodka-swilling, good old boys and freedom fighters. Not a nazi in sight, and all the insignia, salutes and overwhelming evidence to the contrary is all made up.
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BC could also perhaps peruse this 34 page topic: Nazis in Ukraine (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
I perused that topic long ago. As with this topic, it's filled with a lot of opinions from all sides.
Yes, except the nazi-viewpoint tends to be backed up with links to peruse and other information to support the opinion, whereas the other side posts just wall of texts without any proof to back it up.
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BC could also perhaps peruse this 34 page topic: Nazis in Ukraine (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29848.0.html)
I perused that topic long ago. As with this topic, it's filled with a lot of opinions from all sides.
You should get a job with the BBC.
We get it. You choose to believe that all the Ukrainians are all jolly, vodka-swilling, good old boys and freedom fighters. Not a nazi in sight, and all the insignia, salutes and overwhelming evidence to the contrary is all made up.
If that's your opinion, fine. No skin off my back. If you assert I believe such, you are wrong. Nothing I've posted states such. My query to Rosco regarded 5 specific individuals he accused of being Nazis. So far, he has not been able to offer one shred of evidence.
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Christ you're insufferable with your lefty apologetic nonsense BC.
The Azov Brigade is a neo-Nazi formation in the Ukrainian National Guard and those 5 blokes are commanders in the Azov Brigade. Next you'll be demanding proof that Klu klux klan members aren't white supremacists and BLM rioters are peaceful.
"Azov began in 2014 as a paramilitary battalion formed out of a neo-Nazi street gang; it helped Kiev fight back against Russian-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine. Azov eventually grew into a brigade in Ukraine’s National Guard. In addition to committing war crimes, the unit is notorious for its recruitment of radicals from around the world, including America."
Sure BC, these blokes are just honest freedom fighters who accidentally chose a far right Nazi infused formation to fight with. It was probably impossible for them to sign up to the Ukrainian army and they accidentally joined Azov.
(:)
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No Nazis, eh, BC?
[attachimg=1 width=400]
[attachimg=2 width=400]
[attachimg=3 width=400]
[attachimg=4 width=400]
Nope, no Nazis there. Just good old freedom fighter boys. :chuckle:
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
Are those photos disinformation?
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535
Ah the classic.....don't talk about Ukrainian Nazi's......and and but but Russia has some too. As if that justifies Ukrainian Nazis or whitewashes the facts. I was talking about the Ukrainian ones, so I'm not sure how this contributes to that discussion.
Our new cleaner from Kharkov has told my wife all about the nazi's and fascism and how there is a problem with it in Ukrainian society. Yet people like you and BC bend over backwards to deny the problem, for some reason. Probably because it gives some credibility to Putins speeches and of course you lot couldn't have that. Better to lie and deny than live in reality.
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
Are those photos disinformation?
Yea it must be photoshopped or Russians dressed as Ukrainians......or a fancy dress party or anything but the truth!! :chuckle:
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Our new cleaner from Kharkov
I hope your counter tops are all she is polishing. :chuckle:
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Our new cleaner from Kharkov
I hope your counter tops are all she is polishing. :chuckle:
Lol :snivel:
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
Are those photos disinformation?
Yea it must be photoshopped or Russians dressed as Ukrainians......or a fancy dress party or anything but the truth!! :chuckle:
Yes, it very well likely was. The number the pro-Russian people here neglect to talk about is the one that matters, How many Ukrainians voted for the Nazi party. Not very many. The pictures Manny uses look so staged and fake it is hard to believe they are real. No one shows a video of thousands of Nazis in a room having a political meeting that can be virified really took place.
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
Are those photos disinformation?
Nr 2 and 4 are supposedly Artem "Bonov" Zalesav. No one can accurately place him anywhere although claimed to be a police chief in K y i v. Also claimed to be part of Azov batallion back in 2014 but also nothing conclusive. So yes, a good bit of disinformation has been produced starring this bonehead. Some fuzzy reporting says he's Polish. Supposedly escaped Ukraine to Poland but that also refuted by Polish officials.
So at least these two photos, yes, disinformation. The others I couldn't find much info on, either who they are or who they belong to. Unless you have something definitive, they are being used as disinformation as well.
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The usual suspects are still subject to Russian disinformation. I am not surprised, in the least.
Are those photos disinformation?
Yea it must be photoshopped or Russians dressed as Ukrainians......or a fancy dress party or anything but the truth!! :chuckle:
Yes, it very well likely was. The number the pro-Russian people here neglect to talk about is the one that matters, How many Ukrainians voted for the Nazi party. Not very many. The pictures Manny uses look so staged and fake it is hard to believe they are real. No one shows a video of thousands of Nazis in a room having a political meeting that can be virified really took place.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Unless you have something definitive, they are being used as disinformation as well.
No.
If you don't want to believe the photographs of Ukrainians wearing Azov uniforms, swastika ridden Ukrainian flags and heavily nazi tattooed blokes wearing Ukrainian uniforms throwing HH salutes, then its down to you to prove that its fake.
You're getting this all the wrong way round and so far, you can't disprove it. The only disinformation here is your nonsense.
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The number the pro-Russian people here neglect to talk about is the one that matters, How many Ukrainians voted for the Nazi party.
Still confused between pro Russian and truth seeker I see?
But at least you're now admitting that Ukraine has Nazi's and people vote for them to be represented politically and militarily. As if US funding wasn't enough.
Progress.
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Still confused between pro Russian and truth seeker I see?.
Oh, that's laughable. Good god you're full of yourself.
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It's not whether there are Nazis here or there, it's about Azov being the radical group the CIA recruited/funded to escalate what were peaceful protests during Maidan among many other things to destabilise the existing government.
It's what the CIA do.
They (Azov) also had a presence in the RADA after the coup.
And if anyone is suggesting Azov is not a Nazi organisation then you have your head squarely up your nay-nay.
As far as Putin supporting Nazis in Russia, I can safely say that most, if not all of them, especially the radial ones, e.g. skinheads, have long left Russia after coming under intense scrutiny from the Russian government.
It's my understanding that many of these "gentlemen" have made their way to more accommodating environments A.K.A. western Ukraine and the surrounding areas over the years.
When I first moved here I spotted these lads quite frequently around Moscow, but I haven't seen one in well over 10 years. They were actually much more visible in St. Petersburg in the early to mid 2000's, but again, virtually non-existent now.
So much for the Nazis in Russia having Putin's support.
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Still confused between pro Russian and truth seeker I see?.
Oh, that's laughable. Good god you're full of yourself.
Are you still living in Russia?
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Still confused between pro Russian and truth seeker I see?
Rosco a truth seeker. :ROFL:
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It's what the CIA do.
They (Azov) also had a presence in the RADA after the coup.
Curious the Russians in Moldova, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and the Chechen Republic welcome the Russian military presence, in your opinion.
Curious how many seats did Azov have in the Rada?
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I keep thinking the posters that downplay, deny or otherwise try to diminish the nazi-element in Ukraine are despicable.
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I keep thinking the posters that downplay, deny or otherwise try to diminish the nazi-element in Ukraine are despicable.
I keep thinking the posters who downplay, deny or otherwise to diminish the genocide of the Ukrainian people are despicable.
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I keep thinking the posters who downplay, deny or otherwise to diminish the genocide of the Ukrainian people are despicable.
Oh MY!! 😱 genocide of Ukrainian people! I thought it was the other way around. I thought with the west’s arm supply, Ukies were obliterating those Ruskies by the masses?! Are you sure, Texan? Wanna check Yahoo or CNN again?
Anyway, so the subject of whether or not it’s true that Ukraine has ‘nazi’ ( :laugh: ) in their midst is refuted because Russia, UK, USA et al have them too.
OK. Glad we arrived to the conclusive end on that subject.
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Still confused between pro Russian and truth seeker I see?.
Oh, that's laughable. Good god you're full of yourself.
Are you still living in Russia?
Not at the moment.
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Unless you have something definitive, they are being used as disinformation as well.
You're getting this all the wrong way round and so far, you can't disprove it. The only disinformation here is your nonsense.
Rosco, asking someone to disprove something you cannot substantiate in the first place is silly. Are there Nazi's in Ukraine? Sure! They are present in just about every western country. To label them all Nazi's just because you run across some reposted images from some chat boards or twitter without any date, names or other context is silly as well. I can do this for the armed forces, militias and citizens of just about any country. Plenty of pics abound, with full context.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hn1ds8hg/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-08-46-
https://www.ft.com/content/c10397d6-9229-11e7-bdfa-eda243196c2c28.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TPcrcnnk/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-08-48-58.jpg)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-army-officer-national-action-mikko-vehvilainen-neo-nazi-terrorist-group-recruitment-a8632331.html
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJYsqcFm/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-08-52-22.jpg)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo
How about these? German American Bund in good ol' citizens of the USA, tens of thousands filled Madison Square Garden...
(https://i.postimg.cc/wT6ZgkjV/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-08-55-52.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/439sV1tc/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-08-57-50.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D0J1rHvh/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-09-04-45.jpg)
Would I call the military services of these and other countries Nazi? Would I call entire countries Nazis based on a few pictures? Certainly not. You, however, insist on doing so. If you are going to adopt some measuring stick, it should be good for all. or?
So back to the original question: Do you have substantiation that any of those 5 men in the picture are Nazis?
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Oliver Stone put out a movie/documentary called Ukraine on Fire in 2016.
For those who haven't seen it, it's certainly worth a look. TBH, I didn't see the movie (or know about its existence) until the covid lockdowns in 2020 when I seemed to have all the time in the world on my hands.
The movie has some very interesting, indisputable details in it.
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Curious the Russians in Moldova, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and the Chechen Republic welcome the Russian military presence, in your opinion.
Curious how many seats did Azov have in the Rada?
The movie will have segments about Azov, at least as it pertains to the RADA.
Just so you know, I didn't get my info about the RADA from the movie, the movie just confirmed some of my suspicions.
I'm not sure about Moldova, but, yes the other areas do. Have you, or anyone, been to Grozny lately? Rhetorical question obviously. :)
Completely rebuilt (with Russian money) and is quite a beautiful city.
Putin and Kadyrov have a good relationship/understandng with each other.
It might interest some of you to know that many of the uprisings that instigated both wars in Chechnya were propagated by young, highly testosterone fuelled Muslims sent there by Saudi Arabian leaders to lessen the chance these guys would do the same in Saudi Arabia at that time.
W/r/t South Ossetia, do you remember the Russian skirmish with Georgia back in 2008, when the US moved AGAIN to push NATO eastward to antagonise Russia getting US puppet and future Odessa mayor (:) Mikheil Saakashvili to "invade" S. Ossetia, only to watch the Russian army bitch slap the Georgians back to Tbilisi?
You know, another time where the Sanctimonians (A.K.A. Americans) accused Russia of invading another country.
The people in S. Ossetia where more than pleased that Russia put a quick end to that nonsense.
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The thing is, BC, the media used to report it. Now they don't as we all know Uncle Sam funded them to install their proxy government in 2014.
[attachimg=1]
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Unless you have something definitive, they are being used as disinformation as well.
You're getting this all the wrong way round and so far, you can't disprove it. The only disinformation here is your nonsense.
I can do this for the armed forces, militias and citizens of just about any country. Plenty of pics abound, with full context.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJYsqcFm/Screenshot-2023-07-15-at-08-52-22.jpg)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo
except that is not the full explanation of the photo, is it?
"the investigation found that the SS symbol was meant to identify the marines as scout snipers, not Nazis" from the article
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The thing is, BC, the media used to report it. Now they don't as we all know Uncle Sam funded them to install their proxy government in 2014.
(Attachment Link)
Hogwash. Russian propaganda. These things aren’t real because Finland has nazis. So do Austria and probably Spain.
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This video is for Texan our innocent American bussinesman..!!!
Please listen to an American who knows what he is talking about.
Douglas Macgregor & Trish Wood: Odessa and Kharkov fall under Russian control and authorityHave a nice day! :dh:
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… In 2005, Andriy Biletsky recreated the Kharkov-based Patriot of Ukraine (PU) to champion white nationalist, anti-immigrant, extreme-right ideas in Ukraine. PU had previously been active during the 1990s and early 2000s. In November 2008, Biletsky also created the umbrella Social Nationalist Assembly (SNA) movement.[6] The movement was a derivative of the earlier political party Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), which later became known as Svoboda. The SNA contained members from a collection of nationalist and extreme-right groups in Ukraine which promoted a neo-Nazi ideology.[7] The PU became the de facto armed wing of the SNA. The PU also championed far-right, white supremacist ideas; in 2010, Biletsky claimed it was Ukraine’s national mission to ”lead the white races of the world in a final crusade…against semite-led untermenschen (subhumans)”[8] *
The Azov Battalion
In March 2014, following the annexation of Crimea, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense encouraged volunteer military units to mobilize a resistance campaign against Russian-backed separatists in Donbas.[9] Volunteer military units would help “fill the gap” in the Ukrainian military’s defenses.[10] Biletsky and several other PU members formed the Azov Battalion in response to this call. The group’s first violent attack occurred shortly after its formation in April 2014 when fighters clashed with Russian-backed separatists in Donetsk.[11]
In June 2014, the newly formed Battalion gained international notoriety when it -- alongside 200 other pro-Ukrainian forces -- helped re-capture the southeastern city of Mariupol from Russian-backed forces.[12] Regaining control of Mariupol for the government in Kiev had critical strategic implications for the larger War in Donbas because of its juncture connecting the Donbas and Crimea by land and sea.[13] The Azov Battalion’s role in retaking, and holding, Mariupol from the separatist forces was the group’s first significant victory and earned it international credibility.[14]
During the Battle for Mariupol, the group came to attention for its neo-Nazi iconography on the battlefield. Specifically, the battalion patch, which featured an inverted Wolfsangel symbol superimposed on a Black Sun.[15] The Wolsfangel is a historical symbol of independence that was later co-opted by the German Nazi Party. The Black Sun symbol is based on a design commissioned by SS leader Heinrich Himmler, and overwhelmingly used by neo-Nazi and esoteric National Socialist movements.[16] While Azov leaders downplayed the group as a white supremacist or neo-Nazi organization, its patch was and continues to be widely considered a coded reference to modern far-right ideology.
By chance, could this be the focal underpinnings of this non-sensical, tiresome debate?
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except that is not the full explanation of the photo, is it?
"the investigation found that the SS symbol was meant to identify the marines as scout snipers, not Nazis" from the article
Lon,
kinda makes my point. Here, some context is provided for folks like yourself to follow up on, Unlike the photos, others like Rosco and Manny have posted, not to mention any contrary evidence is 'just an excuse' as is done in this response to the official statement regarding symbols the Azov regiment now uses:
https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29938.msg547887.html#msg547887
Applying the same standard they are using, I could answer your reply and simply state it doesn't matter what was written in the article, there are plenty of Nazi's in the Marines.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/marine-marched-neo-nazis-charlottesville-found-guilty-court/story?id=55998984
n.b. I am not trying to prove the Marines, UK forces, or any country are Nazi's, but instead illustrating the fallacy of the measuring stick Rosco, Manny, and others use, along with a total lack of context.
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… In 2005, Andriy Biletsky recreated the Kharkov-based Patriot of Ukraine (PU) to champion white nationalist, anti-immigrant, extreme-right ideas in Ukraine. PU had previously been active during the 1990s and early 2000s. In November 2008, Biletsky also created the umbrella Social Nationalist Assembly (SNA) movement.[6] The movement was a derivative of the earlier political party Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), which later became known as Svoboda. The SNA contained members from a collection of nationalist and extreme-right groups in Ukraine which promoted a neo-Nazi ideology.[7] The PU became the de facto armed wing of the SNA. The PU also championed far-right, white supremacist ideas; in 2010, Biletsky claimed it was Ukraine’s national mission to ”lead the white races of the world in a final crusade…against semite-led untermenschen (subhumans)”[8] *
The Azov Battalion
In March 2014, following the annexation of Crimea, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense encouraged volunteer military units to mobilize a resistance campaign against Russian-backed separatists in Donbas.[9] Volunteer military units would help “fill the gap” in the Ukrainian military’s defenses.[10] Biletsky and several other PU members formed the Azov Battalion in response to this call. The group’s first violent attack occurred shortly after its formation in April 2014 when fighters clashed with Russian-backed separatists in Donetsk.[11]
In June 2014, the newly formed Battalion gained international notoriety when it -- alongside 200 other pro-Ukrainian forces -- helped re-capture the southeastern city of Mariupol from Russian-backed forces.[12] Regaining control of Mariupol for the government in Kiev had critical strategic implications for the larger War in Donbas because of its juncture connecting the Donbas and Crimea by land and sea.[13] The Azov Battalion’s role in retaking, and holding, Mariupol from the separatist forces was the group’s first significant victory and earned it international credibility.[14]
During the Battle for Mariupol, the group came to attention for its neo-Nazi iconography on the battlefield. Specifically, the battalion patch, which featured an inverted Wolfsangel symbol superimposed on a Black Sun.[15] The Wolsfangel is a historical symbol of independence that was later co-opted by the German Nazi Party. The Black Sun symbol is based on a design commissioned by SS leader Heinrich Himmler, and overwhelmingly used by neo-Nazi and esoteric National Socialist movements.[16] While Azov leaders downplayed the group as a white supremacist or neo-Nazi organization, its patch was and continues to be widely considered a coded reference to modern far-right ideology.
By chance, could this be the focal underpinnings of this non-sensical, tiresome debate?
The article continues... after the last line you quoted, add: The movement denies the logo’s far-right associations, claiming the Wolfsangel is an amalgamation of the letters “I” and “N” or “Idea of the Nation.”[18]
The section continues with:
In October 2014, Biletsky left the group to launch a successful political campaign for a seat in Ukraine’s Parliament as an independent candidate. By leveraging his unit’s victory in Mariupol, he secured a seat which he retained until 2019.[19]
On November 12, 2014, Ukraine designated the Azov Battalion a “Special Purpose Regiment” and formally integrated it into the National Guard, within the Ukrainian Interior Ministry.[20] In December 2014, the PU formally disbanded and remaining members integrated into the Azov Regiment.[21]
All this was prefaced with:
Integration into the Ukrainian Armed Forces
From July 2015 to early 2019 the Ukrainian government removed the Azov Regiment from the frontlines, and restricted them to bases in Yuriivka and Urzuf, southwest of Mariupol. This redeployment was largely due to international criticism of the Regiment, and its predecessor organizations, due to deep ties with the far-right. During this time the Regiment focused on recruitment and training, and participated in major military exercises with other Ukrainian units. While the majority of the Regiment was sidelined during this time period, some smaller units still operated in the Donbas. In 2018, at least three members of the Regiment were killed in action. By 2019, the Regiment expanded to include two motorized infantry battalions, 120 and 82 millimeter mortar batteries, D-30 howitzer artillery, a T-64 tank company, reconnaissance squads, drone reconnaissance units, sniper teams, canine teams, a well developed logistics section, and their own engineering and research team. In February 2019, the Azov Regiment was reassigned to a combat deployment in the Donbas, centered back in Mariupol.[35]
Full context here: https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/azov-battalion
While reading, note differentiation mentioned:
The Azov Movement
Since the creation of all three groups - the Azov Regiment in 2014, National Corps in 2016, and the National Militia in 2017- collectively they are often referred to as the “Azov Movement”. Differentiation of actions taken by the Azov Regiment, versus other wings in the Azov Movement is a challenge. This profile ascribes actions to the most specific entity possible between National Corps, the Azov Regiment, and the National Militia. However when sources are not specific, the term Azov Movement is used to identify that said action was taken by one of the three mentioned wings, but no specific information is available on which one. Members of the Azov Regiment, the National Corps, and the National Militia appear to flow between the three branches.[55]
They are not all one and the same as is often depicted here. Many of these are non-state actors.
Other information for context:
https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world
The Azov Regiment of 2022 bears little relation to the ragtag militia the Azov Battalion of 2014, formed from a few dozen football hooligans, and – yes – far-right extremists.
Crucially, in late 2014, Azov was absorbed into the Ukrainian National Guard, allowing greater state oversight, with considerable attention paid to cleansing the ranks of far-right elements, in what should be recognised as an example of successful deradicalisation.
https://svidomi.in.ua/page/azov-brigade-is-nine-years-old-how-russian-propaganda-discredited-the-unit-and-what-consequences-it-had-during-the-defence-of-mariupol
"I can't say we had no ultra-radicals from the beginning. There were some, but they were filtered out over time, and some of them were expelled," says Sviatoslav Palamar, deputy commander of the Azov regiment.
Since 2017, there are no radicals in the regiment, and on March 28, 2022, Azov published an appeal to Russians in which it condemned Nazism and Stalinism.
The ideology that individual members of the unit professed or profess now is Ukrainian nationalism. However, this ideology is generally shared by members of various military formations in Ukraine and members of society in general. As an official armed formation, Azov does not have a separate ideology.
Another point on which the Russians built their propaganda was the organisation of the unit itself. The Russian media portray Azov as an uncontrolled armed formation, even though since 2014, the unit has been officially part of the National Guard, which in turn reports to the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
However, Russia uses the fact that Azov is a political movement. In particular, this opinion is based on the fact that the founder and first commander of the Azov regiment, Andrii Biletskyi, was the leader of the National Corps party in 2016.
The unit is organisationally independent, and Biletskyi founded the party after he had left the unit.
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
Your statement is general in nature. Have any context, dates, or reports that can be referred to describing the events you are interested in?
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
Your statement is general in nature. Have any context, dates, or reports that can be referred to describing the events you are interested in?
No it isn’t. Your weasel ways simply is showing again. My post you quoted, excerpt from Stanford’s CISC exacted the very context of this whole idiotic debate and the persistence of the likes of you in its denial.
An aside: you do know the Furham report is in fact released, or?
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Rosco, asking someone to disprove something you cannot substantiate in the first place is silly.
No.
That's like me posting a video of Roberto Baggio missing a penalty in 1994 and letting Brazil win the World Cup and you asking me to prove that its true.
:prophead:
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
Your statement is general in nature. Have any context, dates, or reports that can be referred to describing the events you are interested in?
No it isn’t. Your weasel ways simply is showing again. My post you quoted, excerpt from Stanford’s CISC exacted the very context of this whole idiotic debate and the persistence of the likes of you in its denial.
An aside: you do know the Furham report is in fact released, or?
Then you should be able to quote directly from the report instead of making an overbroad statement. Suggest you do so.
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Rosco, asking someone to disprove something you cannot substantiate in the first place is silly.
No.
That's like me posting a video of Roberto Baggio missing a penalty in 1994 and letting Brazil win the World Cup and you asking me to prove that its true.
:prophead:
Again, do you have substantiation that supports your statement that the 5 men are Nazi's? It seems you don't like the question and/or want to avoid replying, sorta like kicking dirt without a ball expecting to make a goal.
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Stop squirming BC.
You asked me if there was anything "connecting them with nazis". The last 3 pages or so does that and more.
Your question was answered, replied to and the goal scored. You were wrong and I am right.
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This video is for Texan our innocent American bussinesman..!!!
Please listen to an American who knows what he is talking about.
Maybe if I can not sleep, and Yuliia does not need any attention I will listen to 40 minutes of drivel. What is interesting is I have read a couple reports that Odesa is under pressure from Russia. I can not figure out the source or veracity of this chatter. As for Kharkov that is solidly Ukraine’s at present.
Certainly not a Ukraine loss is the strong possibility that Russia is facing stronger and more persistent attacks on the Southern contact line of the Kherson regio.
Like most things time will tell. Wiz hope you are doing well.
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
No, It did not exist. Yana from Donbas and live through it all. It just plan did not exist. Just Russian propaganda to take over the region and scare the people into supporting Russia in its takeover bid.
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Then you should be able to quote directly from the report instead of making an overbroad statement. Suggest you do so.
“Bodine on Yesterday at 9:05.32 AM “
How’s that? Hope that helps. Can’t be that hard. You quoted it.
:snivel: :snivel:
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
No, It did not exist. Yana from Donbas and live through it all. It just plan did not exist. Just Russian propaganda to take over the region and scare the people into supporting Russia in its takeover bid.
Next.
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Stop squirming BC.
You asked me if there was anything "connecting them with nazis". The last 3 pages or so does that and more.
Your question was answered, replied to and the goal scored. You were wrong and I am right.
No squirming here, you're doing enough of that. So, other than some assumed guilt by pseudo-association one could apply to the entire population of UA, you have absolutely nothing showing any of these 5 individuals have Nazi leanings or connections to any Nazi or neo-Nazi elements that exist in Ukraine. I find that quite reassuring. Thanks.
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Which nullified facts the military with nazi ideology from Ukraine clashed against Russian speaking Ukrainian in Donbas? It didn’t exist? Is this now the point you make BC, or?
No, It did not exist. Yana from Donbas and live through it all. It just plan did not exist. Just Russian propaganda to take over the region and scare the people into supporting Russia in its takeover bid.
A variety of votes were held in the Donbas region. Until Russian mededeling began in about 2010 the majority, sometimes substantial, voted in favour of K y i v.
Guess what changed; Russian mededeling in another countries internal affairs. That is what the Kremlin does.
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Regarding #3 on the bad boy list, Serhii Yaroslavovych Volynskyi, he appears to be a soldier holding the rank of Major. He lead a break out from Mariupol and connected 500 or so of his men with a regiment of the Azov battalion.
It appears the Azov battalion allowed the 36th Separate Marine Brigade of Volynski to be the commander of the combined forces. There seems nothing on either the Russian or Western side that connects Volynski to Nazi sympathetic elements in Ukraine.
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Stop squirming BC.
You asked me if there was anything "connecting them with nazis". The last 3 pages or so does that and more.
Your question was answered, replied to and the goal scored. You were wrong and I am right.
No squirming here, you're doing enough of that. So, other than some assumed guilt by pseudo-association one could apply to the entire population of UA, you have absolutely nothing showing any of these 5 individuals have Nazi leanings or connections to any Nazi or neo-Nazi elements that exist in Ukraine. I find that quite reassuring. Thanks.
Waffle bluster and deny.....good work BC.
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Stop squirming BC.
You asked me if there was anything "connecting them with nazis". The last 3 pages or so does that and more.
Your question was answered, replied to and the goal scored. You were wrong and I am right.
No squirming here, you're doing enough of that. So, other than some assumed guilt by pseudo-association one could apply to the entire population of UA, you have absolutely nothing showing any of these 5 individuals have Nazi leanings or connections to any Nazi or neo-Nazi elements that exist in Ukraine. I find that quite reassuring. Thanks.
Waffle bluster and deny.....good work BC.
You have interesting responses to a direct question, which you seem incapable of answering in any meaningful way. A polite way of saying, "Put up or shut up."
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Stop squirming BC.
You asked me if there was anything "connecting them with nazis". The last 3 pages or so does that and more.
Your question was answered, replied to and the goal scored. You were wrong and I am right.
No squirming here, you're doing enough of that. So, other than some assumed guilt by pseudo-association one could apply to the entire population of UA, you have absolutely nothing showing any of these 5 individuals have Nazi leanings or connections to any Nazi or neo-Nazi elements that exist in Ukraine. I find that quite reassuring. Thanks.
Waffle bluster and deny.....good work BC.
You have interesting responses to a direct question, which you seem incapable of answering in any meaningful way. A polite way of saying, "Put up or shut up."
Are you incapable of understanding connection, Azov, Nazi and Azov Commanders?
It's like a polite way of saying, whatever facts you tell me, whatever evidence you present, I'll just ignore because it suits me.
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You have interesting responses to a direct question, which you seem incapable of answering in any meaningful way. A polite way of saying, "Put up or shut up."
Good god, you can't see the forest for the trees.
Those 5 are the heads of a nazi-organization , not some member, not someone in mildly leadership capacity. no they're the ones making policy, determining where the group is going , choosing all the nazi symbols (claiming its a coincidence will only get you so far, when you have at least 5 nazi-symbols normal people see right through the bullshit).
Geez. Lazy man, go do some googling and: YOURE DESPICABLE!
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You have interesting responses to a direct question, which you seem incapable of answering in any meaningful way. A polite way of saying, "Put up or shut up."
Good god, you can't see the forest for the trees.
Those 5 are the heads of a nazi-organization , not some member, not someone in mildly leadership capacity. no they're the ones making policy, determining where the group is going , choosing all the nazi symbols (claiming its a coincidence will only get you so far, when you have at least 5 nazi-symbols normal people see right through the bullshit).
Geez. Lazy man, go do some googling and: YOURE DESPICABLE!
How many people voted for the NAZI party in the last election? Please show video of thousands of NAZI party member organization the NAZI agenda.
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It's like a polite way of saying, whatever facts you tell me, whatever evidence you present, I'll just ignore because it suits me.
It seems quite like you.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – That principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Herbert Spencer
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How many people voted for the NAZI party in the last election? Please show video of thousands of NAZI party member organization the NAZI agenda.
You are also despicable.
NAZI deserve no defenders
NAZI deserve no leniency.
NAZI deserve nothing but contempt.
Saying: But, but but, russia has nazi too... ok fine.
But denying all the atrocities of Azov and their ilk is simply not acceptable under any circumstance.
Too bad none of you listened to your (grand) parents when they talked about the nazi.
Did any of you visit any of the remnants of that piece of history? Margraten? Sobibor? Nuremberg? Yalta?
I visited 3 of those, i only skipped nuremberg because i am not that interested in the court-cases.
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The Russian government in its present is far worse than any nazi in Ukraine.
Russia deserve no defenders
Russia deserve no leniency.
Russia deserve nothing but contempt
There is a god, and a heaven and Russia will pay for their genocidal ambitions in Ukraine. This invasion is about Putin wanting to be remember in history, Russian bureaucrats and generals wanting to get rich. This is slowly coming undone. When is does not one will remember anything Putin and supporters doing in Ukraine as anything but horrible of the scale of what the Nazis did.
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It's like a polite way of saying, whatever facts you tell me, whatever evidence you present, I'll just ignore because it suits me.
It seems quite like you.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – That principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Herbert Spencer
You’re seriously deluded. For someone who bought into the whole Russian Collusion lock, stock and barrel it is beyond absurd for you, of all people, to blasphemously quote anyone about principles.
Take a break, BC.
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Putin and supporters doing in Ukraine as anything but horrible of the scale of what the Nazis did.
Eh? no.
Putin so far, has not yet killed more than 100 MILLION people out of spite purely because they are jews (or insert here people of choice). Most death's are military-action related and so far only a few collateral damage. I am not trying in any way to justify the horrors of this war, but it is a far cry from what Hitler did. You really should brush up on history if you compare Putin & co, to Hitler.
Nazi-Azov say they want to be like Hitler, they activly promote killing Roma's, Russians and other people just for their culture for instance. Should they ever gain power on a nation, it will be bad.
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You have interesting responses to a direct question, which you seem incapable of answering in any meaningful way. A polite way of saying, "Put up or shut up."
Good god, you can't see the forest for the trees.
Those 5 are the heads of a nazi-organization , not some member, not someone in mildly leadership capacity. no they're the ones making policy, determining where the group is going , choosing all the nazi symbols (claiming its a coincidence will only get you so far, when you have at least 5 nazi-symbols normal people see right through the bullshit).
Geez. Lazy man, go do some googling and: YOURE DESPICABLE!
Instead of relying on RU propaganda, maybe you should investigate and substantiate instead. Look at context, timeline, and history. The Azov Regiment is no longer part of the Azov Movement and the Ukraine government has command and control over the unit, with no ties to the National Corp and other associated groups related to Andriy Biletsky. You wish to throw them all in one basket? As an unsubstantiated opinion, that's fine, but does not reflect the facts.
I take it you also have no substantiated information that ties these 5 individuals to any neo-Nazi movements or similar ideology.
You, Rosco and Bodine are firing blanks. A lot of noise, but that's about it.
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Instead of relying on RU propaganda, maybe you should investigate and substantiate instead. Look at context, timeline, and history.
I did, thats the problem for you. Calling it RU propaganda shows exactly that you didnt.
The Azov Regiment is no longer part of the Azov Movement and the Ukraine government has command and control over the unit, with no ties to the National Corp and other associated groups related to Andriy Biletsky. You wish to throw them all in one basket? As an unsubstantiated opinion, that's fine, but does not reflect the facts.
The new Azov Batallion is just as bad as its predecessor, had you followed the news you'd know that. It was a major problem for many countries right up until Feb' 22 , when the whitewashing started.
I take it you also have no substantiated information that ties these 5 individuals to any neo-Nazi movements or similar ideology.
They lead a nazi movement? If that doesn't make you a nazi, what will.
- Intimidating judges to get favorable decisions.
- Beating and assaulting random people on the street because they are Roma, Dark-haired / Dark skinned, Tatar or other petty reasons.
- Burning houses, property, cars and other posessions of people they don't like
- Killing police officers in retaliation
- Spouting fascist hate-speech that very much resembles Hitler in his prime, just before WW-II started.
The list is endless, but of course, its all in my head eh?
You didn't learn one bit , from the pages long thread with articles from many respectable research labs, respectable papers from the UK, USA (since you speak english). You also didn't read or pick up the fact that USA congress itself outlawed and branded Azov a Nazi-movement and forbade the USA to fund them further, until Feb '22 (the enemy of my enemy is my friend idea i get it).
Here, this is just the first page of the other topic. I assume reuters, wikipedia, dailymail etc. are acceptable to you?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073478/Teen-girl-feted-Ukraine-s-Joan-Arc-fighting-against-Russian-rebels-revealed-nasty-neo-Nazi-views-arrested-killing-cops.html
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
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Here, this is just the first page of the other topic. I assume reuters, wikipedia, dailymail etc. are acceptable to you?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073478/Teen-girl-feted-Ukraine-s-Joan-Arc-fighting-against-Russian-rebels-revealed-nasty-neo-Nazi-views-arrested-killing-cops.html
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
This 2018 Reuters article references National Militia, Azov Movement, and C14 among others. These groups have nothing to do with the Azov Regiment under government control and command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
Decent history, but do note differentiation and evolution of the Azov Regiment. Pay special attention to the Neo-Nazism section and evolution.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073478/Teen-girl-feted-Ukraine-s-Joan-Arc-fighting-against-Russian-rebels-revealed-nasty-neo-Nazi-views-arrested-killing-cops.html
Note reference to Aidaar battalion, that has nothing to do with the Azov Regiment or UA government:
But the magazine's mistake was quickly picked up: Vita is a well-known member of the Aidar Battalion, which last September was slammed by Amnesty International for its campaign of terror through the war-torn Lugansk region.
Among the 400-strong volunteer unit's alleged crimes were abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, and possible executions.
The battalion is known for its links to the far-right, and members have previously been pictured with Nazi insignia.
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/
Note reference to the Azov Battalion and not the new regiment of the regular national guard. The article is largely based on earlier history of the Azov movement et al.
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
As with the fairobserver.com, the article leans towards putting everyone in the same basket without differentiating the various groups and historical characters that have no current bearing on the UA Government's Azov regiment.
Maybe take a look at these articles I posted in reply #983 also to provide a bit of context and differentiation.
https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29938.msg547940.html#msg547940
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Here, this is just the first page of the other topic. I assume reuters, wikipedia, dailymail etc. are acceptable to you?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073478/Teen-girl-feted-Ukraine-s-Joan-Arc-fighting-against-Russian-rebels-revealed-nasty-neo-Nazi-views-arrested-killing-cops.html
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
This 2018 Reuters article references National Militia, Azov Movement, and C14 among others. These groups have nothing to do with the Azov Regiment under government control and command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
Decent history, but do note differentiation and evolution of the Azov Regiment. Pay special attention to the Neo-Nazism section and evolution.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073478/Teen-girl-feted-Ukraine-s-Joan-Arc-fighting-against-Russian-rebels-revealed-nasty-neo-Nazi-views-arrested-killing-cops.html
Note reference to Aidaar battalion, that has nothing to do with the Azov Regiment or UA government:
But the magazine's mistake was quickly picked up: Vita is a well-known member of the Aidar Battalion, which last September was slammed by Amnesty International for its campaign of terror through the war-torn Lugansk region.
Among the 400-strong volunteer unit's alleged crimes were abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, and possible executions.
The battalion is known for its links to the far-right, and members have previously been pictured with Nazi insignia.
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/
Note reference to the Azov Battalion and not the new regiment of the regular national guard. The article is largely based on earlier history of the Azov movement et al.
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
As with the fairobserver.com, the article leans towards putting everyone in the same basket without differentiating the various groups and historical characters that have no current bearing on the UA Government's Azov regiment.
Maybe take a look at these articles I posted in reply #983 also to provide a bit of context and differentiation.
https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29938.msg547940.html#msg547940
Ah , progress.
so we have Nazi in ukraine, just not azov batallion. But yes, the leopard didn't change its spots, they still are.
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The Russian government in its present is far worse than any nazi in Ukraine.
Russia deserve no defenders
Russia deserve no leniency.
Russia deserve nothing but contempt
There is a god, and a heaven and Russia will pay for their genocidal ambitions in Ukraine. This invasion is about Putin wanting to be remember in history, Russian bureaucrats and generals wanting to get rich. This is slowly coming undone. When is does not one will remember anything Putin and supporters doing in Ukraine as anything but horrible of the scale of what the Nazis did.
This is possibly the most out of touch, detached from reality post, I've read on RUA.
:prophead:
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It's like a polite way of saying, whatever facts you tell me, whatever evidence you present, I'll just ignore because it suits me.
It seems quite like you.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – That principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Herbert Spencer
You’re seriously deluded. For someone who bought into the whole Russian Collusion lock, stock and barrel it is beyond absurd for you, of all people, to blasphemously quote anyone about principles.
Take a break, BC.
BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
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Putin and supporters doing in Ukraine as anything but horrible of the scale of what the Nazis did.
Eh? no.
Putin so far, has not yet killed more than 100 MILLION people out of spite purely because they are jews (or insert here people of choice). Most death's are military-action related and so far only a few collateral damage. I am not trying in any way to justify the horrors of this war, but it is a far cry from what Hitler did. You really should brush up on history if you compare Putin & co, to Hitler.
Nazi-Azov say they want to be like Hitler, they activly promote killing Roma's, Russians and other people just for their culture for instance. Should they ever gain power on a nation, it will be bad.
Tex seems to believe that Putin has built gas chambers and grand scale ovens, to exterminate millions of innocent non military fighting Ukrainians.
I don't believe that its possible to hold a semi sensible conversation with such an idiot but I do wonder where he reads these lies or if he simply makes it all up and believes his own fantasy?
mythomania
noun
psychiatry the tendency to lie, exaggerate, or relate incredible imaginary adventures as if they had really happened, occurring in some mental disorders
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You, Rosco and Bodine are firing blanks. A lot of noise, but that's about it.
No doubt you believe the ghost of Kiev is real and that everything the Ukrainians tell the western press is honest and accurate.
I didn't expect that you would be the class fool, trying to defend the Azov but if that's the hill you chose to die on, so be it.
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That’s BC’s M.O. He pesters the discussion with a whole bunch of irrelevant links to muddy the discussion and take you out of the subject point once he knows you’ve taken him to task. At least the links are no longer CNN-based. His old go-to citations.
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BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
Made only more vile by pointing the finger at everyone else instead of yourselves.
This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.
For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
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BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
Made only more vile by pointing the finger at everyone else instead of yourselves.
This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.
For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
The finger was pointing squarely at you and thank you for proving my point. You are the epitome of a fuzzy thinking, self loathing Guardinista.
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BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
Made only more vile by pointing the finger at everyone else instead of yourselves.
This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.
For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
The finger was pointing squarely at you and thank you for proving my point. You are the epitome of a fuzzy thinking, self loathing Guardinista.
Interesting that as a last resort, y'all can only come up with insults instead of substance.
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BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
Made only more vile by pointing the finger at everyone else instead of yourselves.
This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.
For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
The finger was pointing squarely at you and thank you for proving my point. You are the epitome of a fuzzy thinking, self loathing Guardinista.
Interesting that as a last resort, y'all can only come up with insults instead of substance.
It's interesting that ya'll so beta, you find the truth insulting.
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BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
Made only more vile by pointing the finger at everyone else instead of yourselves.
This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.
For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
OK, here's a good example of the point I make.
The genesis of this silly debate was Putin's proclamation of 'denazifying Ukraine' in referencing as one of the reasons in Russia's SMO/invasion in Ukraine. Without legitimizing or agreeing with his point, the case was made due to the Azov battalion at the time (2014), largely composed of paramilitary group with Nazi aspired ideologies which is more than well documented and undeniably true, was actively clashing with the Russian-speaking Ukrainians since 2014 in the Donbas region, along with the Odessa massacre of the same year.
The discussion since evolved to *"there's no Nazi in Ukraine because the US et al have them, too"; to "well, they're no longer Nazi symphatisers"; to "well, the UK, Wagner PMC, Canada have them, too"; to 'what really is the definition of 'Nazi",* etc..
Stay on point.
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It's interesting that ya'll so beta, you find the truth insulting.
Easy as pie. Instead of me responding in kind, just click here: https://rusttips.com/insult-generator/
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It's interesting that ya'll so beta, you find the truth insulting.
Easy as pie. Instead of me responding in kind, just click here: https://rusttips.com/insult-generator/
...and there's another proof I make about BC. Another irrelevant link to further muddy the discussion.
Old habits die hard.
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BC is just another member of the leftwaffe, who stands by those principles when it suits. As you pointed out, when it comes to the accusations against Trump, those principles are thrown in the bin.
I find it curious how these hand wringers bend over backwards to defend nazis or muslim grooming gangs yet turn evil when it comes to people with opposing political views.
Vile stuff.
Made only more vile by pointing the finger at everyone else instead of yourselves.
This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.
For many in Britain today the term “grooming gang” immediately suggests Pakistani-heritage Muslim men abusing white girls, but the Home Office researchers now tell us that “research has found that group-based offenders are most commonly White”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim
OK, here's a good example of the point I make.
The genesis of this silly debate was Putin's proclamation of 'denazifying Ukraine' in referencing as one of the reasons in Russia's SMO in in Ukraine. Without legitimizing or agreeing with his point, the case was made due to the Azov battalion at the time (2014), largely composed of paramilitary group with Nazi aspired ideologies which is more than well documented and undeniably true, was actively clashing with the Russian-speaking Ukrainians since 2014 in the Donbas region, along with the Odessa massacre of the same year.
The discussion since evolved to *"there's no Nazi in Ukraine because the US et al have them, too"; to "well, they're no longer Nazi symphatisers"; to "well, the UK, Wagner PMC, Canada have them, too"; to 'what really is the definition of 'Nazi",* etc..
Stay on point.
On point? I only asked Rosco one question here: https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29938.msg547862.html#msg547862
Lacking any substantiation regarding the political or ideological leanings of these five individuals, a general tirade of RU propaganda-filled tropes evolved, a number of which were debunked entirely. Any reference I made regarding neo-Nazi organizations in other countries and such was to illustrate the overbroad measuring stick Rosco and others here are using somehow to tie these individuals to Nazi ideology. Using the same measuring stick, just about any country could be declared as being Nazi. I never denied there were neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine.
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It's interesting that ya'll so beta, you find the truth insulting.
Easy as pie. Instead of me responding in kind, just click here: https://rusttips.com/insult-generator/
...and there's another proof I make about BC. Another irrelevant link to further muddy the discussion.
Old habits die hard.
And I assume you find the following quote constructive debate?
The finger was pointing squarely at you and thank you for proving my point. You are the epitome of a fuzzy thinking, self loathing Guardinista.
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It's interesting that ya'll so beta, you find the truth insulting.
Easy as pie. Instead of me responding in kind, just click here: https://rusttips.com/insult-generator/
...and there's another proof I make about BC. Another irrelevant link to further muddy the discussion.
Old habits die hard.
And I assume you find the following quote constructive debate?
The finger was pointing squarely at you and thank you for proving my point. You are the epitome of a fuzzy thinking, self loathing Guardinista.
Of course not. You're absolutely right to point that out, BC.
Rosco, stop it!
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It's interesting that ya'll so beta, you find the truth insulting.
Easy as pie. Instead of me responding in kind, just click here: https://rusttips.com/insult-generator/
...and there's another proof I make about BC. Another irrelevant link to further muddy the discussion.
Old habits die hard.
And I assume you find the following quote constructive debate?
The finger was pointing squarely at you and thank you for proving my point. You are the epitome of a fuzzy thinking, self loathing Guardinista.
For the final time BC, you asked me if there was anything connecting those 5 blokes with nazis and you were provided with pages of information by a number of people.
It's actually a very compact array of dots that even the most simple of people could connect yet you seem unable or unwilling to understand the links. Feel free to divert and dilute the discussion if it takes the heat off you but don't be surprised when you get called out for it.
As I mentioned upthread, you would be asking for proof that 5 heads of the KKK were American white supremacists, you are that type of man.
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As your opinion, that's quite ok Rosco. I can't change that, and won't try. You are stuck back in 2014 using a broad guilt-by-association measuring stick that applies to anyone you wish in UA. The same measuring stick applied to other countries would the same result, even UK and the US. My goodness, plenty of neo-Nazi organizations exist in both countries. Your measuring stick says they are all Nazi's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Neo-Nazi_organisations_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Neo-Nazi_organizations_in_the_United_States
You don't want to accept any other information that is contrary to RU centric propaganda? That's fine too. You want to virtually brand as Nazi any unit or persons, past, present, or future, that uses the word Azov? Sure, go right ahead.
I've stated the facts I've found regarding the evolution of the Azov unit. I'll leave it up to the readers to form their own opinions using the information provided.
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The same measuring stick applied to other countries would the same result, even UK and the US. My goodness, plenty of neo-Nazi organizations exist in both countries.
Yawn......
You don't want to accept any other information that is contrary to RU centric propaganda?
Yawn.......
I've stated the facts I've found regarding the evolution of the Azov unit.
You've only posted links to articles attempting to soften the nazi/azov association which backs up your opinion.
Therefore it's only your opinion. Just as others have provided facts that the azov fighting unit is filled with far right nazi fascist ideological followers (and there is lots of facts telling that story).....you continue to ignore it, calling it Russian propaganda and stick your head in the sand for god knows what reason.
Now tell me, was the BBC documentary discussing far right nazi problems within Ukraine also Russian propaganda? You've admitted that Ukraine has a nazi problem which is a good start but you can't seem to bear hearing other people say it out loud, why is that? Nobody here thinks that Ukraine is full of nazi's but when we talk about the nazi element, hand wringers like you end up needing to rinse your nickers out. All very strange.
If you genuinely believe that everything has changed since these documentaries were aired, then it is you who is stuck back in time and we can't change that. But that makes this a BC problem.
Now run along and waste someone else's time BC. Yawn....
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And back on topic, well kind of.
Today was the closing session of the summit between European and leaders of Latin America and the Caribbean. The europeans had been trying to make the Latin/Caribbean's sign off on a statement condemning Russia for the war but they refused and frustrations spilled over.
Good to see leaders from around the world, holding firm on the blackmail and coercion, peddled by the west to justify the proxy war. We seem to have an unhealthy habit of trying to force everyone to act and think the same as ourselves.
"While the EU pushed for strong words on the war, St Vincent and the Grenadines Prime Minister Ralph Gonsalves said that "this summit ought not to become another unhelpful battleground for discourses on this matter, which has been and continues to be addressed in other, more relevant fora".
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-general-sacked-for-pointing-out-tough-situation-12541713
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You've only posted links to articles attempting to soften the nazi/azov association which backs up your opinion.
No, but most of the information I posted is more up to date than some of the videos you posted from 9 years ago. While it may have been more pertinent back then time does change things.
Another of your videos references the National Corps which has nothing to do with the National Guard Azov regiment.
The last video I doubt you even watched as it does more to debunk your line of opinion rather than support it.
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You've only posted links to articles attempting to soften the nazi/azov association which backs up your opinion.
No, but most of the information I posted is more up to date than some of the videos you posted from 9 years ago. While it may have been more pertinent back then time does change things.
Another of your videos references the National Corps which has nothing to do with the National Guard Azov regiment.
The last video I doubt you even watched as it does more to debunk your line of opinion rather than support it.
BC, I suspect you're not that thick so let's stop with the broad strokes and diluting the post. Those links discuss Azov directly and more generally the far right Nazi element in Ukraine. That is clear to everyone, possibly even Tex.
If you wish to keep up this act and play silly buggers, I suggest you start your own thread and see if anyone can be arsed to entertain you. AGAIN.....you asked me for a connection and I gave you more than that. If you think that the far right nazi thing just disappeared over night and coincided with words coming out of Putins mouth, then I fear you are lost.
Some of the videos are as recent as 2022 so forget trying to use time as a way to discredit. The last video literally confirms what I've been saying all along.
I'm starting to believe that you have learning difficulties so before you thumb out another silly post, I suggest you re-read much of the last 4-5 pages and it will give you the answer you need.
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CNN appear to have forgotten about this vintage piece they aired about a decade ago. Its reporters in Donetsk were covering the genocide in Ukraine where the Ukrainian government in Kiev were killing its own people in the Donbas.
Yet today, much like the nazi stuff, Putin mentioned this in his speech so we are all supposed to forget about it or pretend that it was only Russian paid soldiers they were killing.
Classic shift the narrative and feed the sheep. Click the link and enjoy the video.
https://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/02/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html
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If you really understood what was happening at the time you would not feel this way. This was after Russia had let the prisoners out of prison and organized groups to displace the Ukraine government. They were trying to create support for Russia which did not really exist by convincing the locals the Ukraine was trying to kill them. Then they would make set up where locals were caught in the crossfire. No body died until Russia created this condition. Yana had some of this happen to her. They set up artillery in front of her home and fired it. Then left when the Ukraine returned fire her home was hit. Now it is matter if you blamed Ukraine for hitting it or Russia for making the set up for caused it to be hit. CNN here never got the full story.
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You've only posted links to articles attempting to soften the nazi/azov association which backs up your opinion.
No, but most of the information I posted is more up to date than some of the videos you posted from 9 years ago. While it may have been more pertinent back then time does change things.
Another of your videos references the National Corps which has nothing to do with the National Guard Azov regiment.
The last video I doubt you even watched as it does more to debunk your line of opinion rather than support it.
BC, I suspect you're not that thick so let's stop with the broad strokes and diluting the post. Those links discuss Azov directly and more generally the far right Nazi element in Ukraine. That is clear to everyone, possibly even Tex.
If you wish to keep up this act and play silly buggers, I suggest you start your own thread and see if anyone can be arsed to entertain you. AGAIN.....you asked me for a connection and I gave you more than that. If you think that the far right nazi thing just disappeared over night and coincided with words coming out of Putins mouth, then I fear you are lost.
Some of the videos are as recent as 2022 so forget trying to use time as a way to discredit. The last video literally confirms what I've been saying all along.
I'm starting to believe that you have learning difficulties so before you thumb out another silly post, I suggest you re-read much of the last 4-5 pages and it will give you the answer you need.
Rosco,
again, you rely on out-of-context information. Absolutely nothing you have posted links any of the 5 individuals to neo-nazi or other fascist movements in Ukraine, or elsewhere.
Your first video is from 2014, which may well be presenting information as it was at the time. Have things changed since, you decide for yourself. The one using broad strokes is not me, but you.
The second video Canadian City News from 2022 describing a visit by Canadian diplomats and soldiers was directly refuted by the organization that set up the meetings. Your video among others shows one side of the story. Here is the official response:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/dnd-says-review-exonerates-canada-s-mission-in-ukraine-of-training-extremists-1.5888757
Part of the video includes segments showing Nazi symbols on helmets from a German documentary. This footage is from 2014 as well. Images from the video are shown in the report below:
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/german-tv-shows-nazi-symbols-helmets-ukraine-soldiers-n198961
The third video from five years ago references Andrii Biletskyi and other historical aspects that also refer to 2014 when he was commander of the volunteer Azov Battalion before that unit was absorbed into the Ukrainian military. Like yourself, this report relies on the past and not the future of the Azov unit now under the command and control of the Ukrainian government. The current Azov regiment has officially refuted neo-Nazi and other fascist ideologies in favor of Ukrainian nationalism and weeded out those with neo-nazi and similar sentiments. I can agree that a few might remain, as they do in armed forces of many countries, but that they do not play the dominant role you describe.
The last video you posted from 6 months ago should be watched by all. The interviewees state there are Nazi elements in Ukraine, as there are in other countries, but that it is not dominant, and how the Ukraine public, aside from red and black flags Ukrainian Jews object to that were used in some marches, do not consider these Nazi-affiliated movements.
So do I use a wide brush? Obviously not. I take the time to disassemble and better understand the reporting on this topic and don't bite into it like a famished person does with a ham sandwich. In many ways, you have been suckered into RU propaganda that totally relies on contexts from the past and not the current day, along with obviating any sense of rational thinking.
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That's your opinion BC, many would disagree with you. It's all been said and I will not waste anymore time playing your silly games.
You and Moby should be locked in a room together and forgotten about.
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That's your opinion BC, many would disagree with you. It's all been said and I will not waste anymore time playing your silly games.
You and Moby should be locked in a room together and forgotten about.
As far as the contrary evidence regarding your videos, they are factual and not my opinion.
Of course, anyone reading the material can form their own opinions. I have no objections to folks doing so.
Seeya around.
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As far as the contrary evidence regarding your videos, they are factual and not my opinion.
So quote real, relyable sources. Thats one thing we all have in common (We being: the azov are nazi's) , we use the new york times, the washington post, reuters, all respectable news sources. You are basicly quoting some local phenomena nobody ever heard of.
So no: what you posted is not factual, its hearsay and therefore only your opinion.
Of course, anyone reading the material can form their own opinions. I have no objections to folks doing so.
Seeya around.
If youre outnumbered in your opinion, perhaps yours is the false one.
I mean, even us-congress agrees that AZOV are nazi!
And thats the last time I will respond to this. There's pages, and pages of proof on this very board on multiple threads but you just don't want to see it.
2018: (and yes, the outcome of this was the ban on AZOV passed into law)
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
U.S. officials have said vetting required under the so-called Leahy Law already prevents the United States from aiding Azov. The Leahy Law bans U.S. aid from going to groups when the “secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights
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google search: last month. azov nazi
https://www.google.com/search?q=azov%20nazi&tbm=isch&tbs=qdr:m&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0CAQQpwVqFwoTCLD35O7CmoADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD&biw=1860&bih=969#imgrc=DZoBCYtcxHNCvM
Nothing to see here, move along!
https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/05/blizzard-has-banned-players-from-calling-their-clan-azov/
:ROFL: nothing to see here, move along
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As far as the contrary evidence regarding your videos, they are factual and not my opinion.
No you watch a video or post a link and then fudge it around your opinion. That makes it your opinion.
The last video for example, shows a presenter asking about the denazification claims by Putin to bloke in the know. Lot's of information supports the DNA and culture behind the claims and he himself admits their presence. Towards the end and for balance (to avoid it becoming a pile on) he mentions that they are a minority and not dominant etc but nonetheless it proves they exist. The point of the segment was to tell the audience that whilst Ukrainian nazi's are real, they don't represent the whole country.
From this video, you take away a very different lesson, that other countries have nazis! It's ridiculous and you use this strategy regularly meaning that if I were to give you the final word on the matter, irrespective of how ridiculous it is, you believe that I cant challenge it and you are correct. Mobyesk.
Putin said that he wanted to denazify Ukraine and this upsets you. You tell us that all the nazi's are now instantly rehabilitated as if by magic and that all the insignia and arm throwing stuff is actually misunderstood, they're just patriots fighting against nasty Russia. :chuckle: We have all been telling you that we dont believe that Ukraine is full of nazi's but there is an unhealthy element, currently being armed and supported by the west to fight Russia and this is what doesn't sit well with normal people. Others like you apologise or deny it on their behalf which is incredibly sad.
"We HaVe NaZi'S too".....as if our countries have armed battalions of brutal far right nazi animals running around and threatening law, order and democracy. :'(
Either way, you dont need a house full of rats to call in pest control. I hope you dont get confused with that analogy or decide to run with it in a different direction......
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2018: (and yes, the outcome of this was the ban on AZOV passed into law)
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
Isn't it funny how BC seems to think that it's all just a big misunderstanding and the Azov Battalion (as proven by his more recently dated links) are no longer a Nazi organisation. Just lots of innocent confusion and vague similarities attributed to a jolly bunch of patriots who would otherwise be doctors, lawyers and child care professionals.
These more recent links kindly provided by BC just happen to have come around since the SMO and with good fortune, now that the Azov Battalion are no longer Nazi's (sceptics would call it re branding), the west can fund, supply and provide intelligence to them. What a master stroke of good fortune otherwise they would have been all on their own fighting against nasty Russia. Instead we should be more worried about all the nazi's in our own country, running round in tanks and killing people indiscriminately.
Perhaps BC should "take his time and disassemble" the information he now has, so he can form a more realistic opinion, rather than the white washed agenda he so enjoys soaking up?
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2018: (and yes, the outcome of this was the ban on AZOV passed into law)
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
U.S. officials have said vetting required under the so-called Leahy Law already prevents the United States from aiding Azov. The Leahy Law bans U.S. aid from going to groups when the “secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights
For at least 6 years BC vehemently argued that Trump is guilty of colluding with Russia. That gives you a clear idea of his cognitive acuity. He is very easily swayed to suit his political leaning.
He and the rest of the western media along with its political leadership would like to feed their respective public to believe Azov fighters have all of the sudden found Jesus. It has much to do to the need of arming them to confront Russia. Ukraine, because of its corruption disease literally was a country with literally no army. After all Azov, despite its ideology, is literally the only ‘Ukrainian’ significant trained military body.
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Here are reliable sources:
Quoting Andreas Umland, a scholar who has studied the Azov Regiment -
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220325-azov-regiment-takes-centre-stage-in-ukraine-propaganda-war
https://crossing.cw.com.tw/article/16071
Anton Shekhovtsov, an academic who is an ethnic Russian from Crimea -
https://icds.ee/en/anton-shekhovtsov-helping-those-azov-nazis/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-azov-should-not-be-designated-a-foreign-terrorist-organization/
Alasdair McCallum, a PhD candidate -
https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world
You can dismiss this as a Ukrainian source, but it is accurate, nevertheless -
https://krytyka.com/en/articles/too-much-ado-about-ukrainian-nationalists-the-azov-movement-and-the-war-in-ukraine
What most of you "Russian experts" fail to address, or perhaps even realise, is that the current Russian leadership is all former KGB, the repressive organ of the CPSU which kept the country together by force. In Soviet times, they released significant disinformation campaigns in the West, mostly successful because Westerners take things at face value. As a student studying the USSR, I read of the trial of Sinyavsky and Daniel, and its aftermath. I realised both were part of a KGB disinformation campaign, primarily because of actions after their trial. It wasn't a popular opinon at the time, even my professor (who worked for the CIA), didn't believe me. But I was proven correct on the collapse of the USSR, when the CPSU was put on trial, and archived documents were accessed by Vladimir Bukovsky.
The former KGB hasn't changed its spots nor, really, its tactics. And the same type of Western idiot, enamoured of all things "Russian", falls for it again.
So, continue to believe what you wish, despite the assertions of scholars who study this for a living. You can feel morally superior and all tingly as more Ukrainians die at the hands of Russian missiles, all while you support an authoritarian ruler who kills or imprisons those who disagree with him.
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Note, I capitalized Azov and Nazi's from Markje'a quote so that it would stand out better
the Azov are Nazi's
Does anyone know if any of these Azov Nazi's are alive today? I think, but don't know that a great many of them if not all have been killed or captured during the
Special Military Action in Mariupol.
Has Ukraine mostly been deNazified?
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He and the rest of the western media along with its political leadership would like to feed their respective public to believe Azov fighters have all of the sudden found Jesus. It has much to do to the need of arming them to confront Russia. Ukraine, because of its corruption disease literally was a country with literally no army. After all Azov, despite its ideology, is literally the only ‘Ukrainian’ significant trained military body.
Very little of what was Azor fighter remain what it was at its founding. It has been mainly dissolved into the Ukraine military a long time ago much like Wagner is being dissolved into the Russian army. The only different is they kept their name. So, you think these thousand men of Azor Battalion self-funded is what is keep Russia at bay?
This idea the rest of the army of Ukraine is not qualified to fight is far from true. The original Azor battalion was only about a thousand men in a war where 200 thousand men fighting on either side which has grown far beyond that now. So now we have what Russian supporters here are claiming is Nazis in Ukraine are an important part of the war when really it was only a few hundred men at best. These men are not a Russian problem and did not give Russia any reason to invade the country. The real reason Putin wanted to go down in history being as important as Peter the great and his innercircle all thought they would get even more rich off the spoils of the war. The propaganda cannot say that, so they come up with all this stuff about Nazis, Nato, and so on. Not many Russia would want to die for the real reasons.
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Here are reliable sources:
Quoting Andreas Umland, a scholar who has studied the Azov Regiment -
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220325-azov-regiment-takes-centre-stage-in-ukraine-propaganda-war
https://crossing.cw.com.tw/article/16071
Anton Shekhovtsov, an academic who is an ethnic Russian from Crimea -
https://icds.ee/en/anton-shekhovtsov-helping-those-azov-nazis/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-azov-should-not-be-designated-a-foreign-terrorist-organization/
Alasdair McCallum, a PhD candidate -
https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world
You can dismiss this as a Ukrainian source, but it is accurate, nevertheless -
https://krytyka.com/en/articles/too-much-ado-about-ukrainian-nationalists-the-azov-movement-and-the-war-in-ukraine
What most of you "Russian experts" fail to address, or perhaps even realise, is that the current Russian leadership is all former KGB, the repressive organ of the CPSU which kept the country together by force. In Soviet times, they released significant disinformation campaigns in the West, mostly successful because Westerners take things at face value. As a student studying the USSR, I read of the trial of Sinyavsky and Daniel, and its aftermath. I realised both were part of a KGB disinformation campaign, primarily because of actions after their trial. It wasn't a popular opinon at the time, even my professor (who worked for the CIA), didn't believe me. But I was proven correct on the collapse of the USSR, when the CPSU was put on trial, and archived documents were accessed by Vladimir Bukovsky.
The former KGB hasn't changed its spots nor, really, its tactics. And the same type of Western idiot, enamoured of all things "Russian", falls for it again.
So, continue to believe what you wish, despite the assertions of scholars who study this for a living. You can feel morally superior and all tingly as more Ukrainians die at the hands of Russian missiles, all while you support an authoritarian ruler who kills or imprisons those who disagree with him.
Useful information for all of you, ahem, truthseekers. :thumbsup:
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Very little of what was Azor fighter remain what it was at its founding.
Because Russia smashed them at the beginning of the SMO and most of them are now dead.
So, you think these thousand men of Azor Battalion self-funded is what is keep Russia at bay?
We know from official papers, that the US pumped trillions into arming them. They were not self funded. See the link above from Mark if you aren't sure.
So now we have what Russian supporters here are claiming is Nazis in Ukraine are an important part of the war when really it was only a few hundred men at best. These men are not a Russian problem and did not give Russia any reason to invade the country.
You might want to read up on that because you're very wrong. The Azov were set up to fight ethnic Russians in the east and were funded & armed by the US and others, to do their dirty work.
This is why Putin didn't like them. Armed nazi's fighting and killing ethnic Russians in the east post 2014.
-
You can feel morally superior and all tingly as more Ukrainians die at the hands of Russian missiles, all while you support an authoritarian ruler who kills or imprisons those who disagree with him.
How very wrong and simplistic. If thats what you really think after the thousands of posts and discussions, its probably better you ask your husband to explain it to you.
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Calling it as I see it is neither wrong nor simplistic.
You are wrong about the Azov Regiment. Scholars who study this area for a living disagree with the assertions you have made here. As far as I have read, I have seen no posts by the "usual suspects" suggesting Russia has committed war crimes (rape, torture, castration of soldiers, execution of civilians), all documented by the UN or independent bodies. I have read nothing denouncing this invasion of Ukraine. I haven't even read a denunciation of the drafting of criminals and fighting by soldiers for hire by Russia. Rather, I have read screeds on the need to "denazify" a country with a Jewish president, a Jewish leader of the opposition, an Afghani Muslim cabinet minister (elected to office by those Ukrainians with the nazi gene), with almost no violence against POC, which holds democratic elections, was again moving again toward a rule of law (real progress had been made before it was dismantled by Yanukovych) and respect for human rights (above nascent stages, but still very imperfect).
So, I reject your assertion and ask you prove where I have been mistaken.
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Calling it as I see it is neither wrong nor simplistic.
You are wrong about the Azov Regiment.
Proof suggests otherwise. Any western source claiming they're not really nazi after Feb-2022 is to be questioned immediatly as whitewashing began then.
As far as I have read, I have seen no posts by the "usual suspects" suggesting Russia has committed war crimes (rape, torture, castration of soldiers, execution of civilians), all documented by the UN or independent bodies.
Because Ukraine does exactly the same and on the same scale in percent. You just don't hear about that in western news. War is dirty, war is bad, war is against all humans, human rights, etc. etc. that's why it needs to end A.S.A.P.
Try and find out whats going on in Belgorod for instance, have you asked about Rostov-on-Don ? No? didn't think so.
I haven't even read a denunciation of the drafting of criminals and fighting by soldiers for hire by Russia.
Ukraine did that first, in the second month after the SMO began even. How can you fault Russia for doing the same. Just like Putin said: if the west supplies cluster munitions, we will start using the same.
Rather, I have read screeds on the need to "denazify" a country with a Jewish president,
People keep quoting that, thinking it somehow is inexplicably linked with the 'no nazi' narrative when it isn't mutually exclusive. Jews might actually conscript nazi 'the enemy of my enemy' and all that.
Mark.
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Here are reliable sources:
Quoting Andreas Umland, a scholar who has studied the Azov Regiment -
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220325-azov-regiment-takes-centre-stage-in-ukraine-propaganda-war
https://crossing.cw.com.tw/article/16071
Anton Shekhovtsov, an academic who is an ethnic Russian from Crimea -
https://icds.ee/en/anton-shekhovtsov-helping-those-azov-nazis/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-azov-should-not-be-designated-a-foreign-terrorist-organization/
Alasdair McCallum, a PhD candidate -
https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world
You can dismiss this as a Ukrainian source, but it is accurate, nevertheless -
https://krytyka.com/en/articles/too-much-ado-about-ukrainian-nationalists-the-azov-movement-and-the-war-in-ukraine
What most of you "Russian experts" fail to address, or perhaps even realise, is that the current Russian leadership is all former KGB, the repressive organ of the CPSU which kept the country together by force. In Soviet times, they released significant disinformation campaigns in the West, mostly successful because Westerners take things at face value. As a student studying the USSR, I read of the trial of Sinyavsky and Daniel, and its aftermath. I realised both were part of a KGB disinformation campaign, primarily because of actions after their trial. It wasn't a popular opinon at the time, even my professor (who worked for the CIA), didn't believe me. But I was proven correct on the collapse of the USSR, when the CPSU was put on trial, and archived documents were accessed by Vladimir Bukovsky.
The former KGB hasn't changed its spots nor, really, its tactics. And the same type of Western idiot, enamoured of all things "Russian", falls for it again.
So, continue to believe what you wish, despite the assertions of scholars who study this for a living. You can feel morally superior and all tingly as more Ukrainians die at the hands of Russian missiles, all while you support an authoritarian ruler who kills or imprisons those who disagree with him.
Useful information for all of you, ahem, truthseekers. :thumbsup:
Yes, don't we all love bias confirmation?
You think Biden is an ahem, good politician and president. So much for your credibility and truth seeking.
And no I'm not a big Trump supporter FYI.
Calling it as I see it is neither wrong nor simplistic.
So, I reject your assertion and ask you prove where I have been mistaken.
I strongly suggest seeing an ophthalmologist as your vision problems seem severe.
I just checked these 2 people below, read the article/interview and had seen enough not to bother with the others.
Anton Shekhovtsov (PhD) is a director at The Centre for Democratic Integrity, a Vienna-based non-profit association monitoring attempts of authoritarian regimes to influence politics, societies and public governance in Europe, and Associated Researcher at the Research Center for the History of Transformations at the University of Vienna (Austria).
I guess because he was born in Crimea we're supposed to assume he's unbiased :laugh:. His interview is IMO full of biased remarks and typical anti-Russian rhetoric.
Heidi Maiberg is a PhD Candidate (Criminology) at Royal Holloway, University of London. In her dissertation, she researches European and Northern American deradicalisation and disengagement programmes with a focus on ways how programmes measure their impact. She also keeps an eye on ways how to prevent violent extremism through education, and changes in the Baltic extremist milieu.
The article is in collaboration with the ICDS, an Estonian rag, and "special edition" for the Lennart Meri Conference with such guest speakers and notorious truth seekers (:) as.
David Cattler - NATO Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security
John Allen - USMC General (Ret.), Non-Resident Distinguished Fellow at Royal United Services Institute (RUSI)
Thomas Bagger - Ambassador of Germany in Poland
Benedetta Berti - Head of Policy Planning in the Office of the Secretary General at NATO
Stephen Biegun - Senior Vice President of the Boeing Company, former US Deputy Secretary of State
Christopher G Cavoli - Commander of the US European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe among other "notable" presenters.
Gee, thanks for the unbiased "facts". (:)
-
Very little of what was Azor fighter remain what it was at its founding.
Because Russia smashed them at the beginning of the SMO and most of them are now dead.
So, you think these thousand men of Azor Battalion self-funded is what is keep Russia at bay?
We know from official papers, that the US pumped trillions into arming them. They were not self funded. See the link above from Mark if you aren't sure.
So now we have what Russian supporters here are claiming is Nazis in Ukraine are an important part of the war when really it was only a few hundred men at best. These men are not a Russian problem and did not give Russia any reason to invade the country.
You might want to read up on that because you're very wrong. The Azov were set up to fight ethnic Russians in the east and were funded & armed by the US and others, to do their dirty work.
This is why Putin didn't like them. Armed nazi's fighting and killing ethnic Russians in the east post 2014.
So if Putin killed them all why the war?
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Gee, thanks for the unbiased "facts". (:)
ad hominem is a useless discourse fallacy that can be applied to any author. All can be considered biased.
Instead, one should look at the facts presented, and whether conclusions presented are logical and based on the facts.
A baseline of facts is needed for any discourse that is to be considered constructive in the sense of learning something.
To illustrate, let's take something simple:
A few messages back, Markje asserted that since Congress banned funding for the Azov Battalion in 2018, this somehow supports his opinion proving that the Azov Battalion consists of Nazi's, even today.
If youre outnumbered in your opinion, perhaps yours is the false one.
I mean, even us-congress agrees that AZOV are nazi!
Here is the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1625/text
A search of "Azov" shows one entry:
Sec. 8129. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to provide arms, training, or other assistance to the Azov Battalion.
No mention of any other military units is listed.
So is this proof of anything?
To find out, one needs first to find out if the Azov Battalion existed in 2018. Did it?
Once that question is answered, one can decide if this legislation is meaningful in any way and if this legislation somehow proves anything at all if the Azov Battalion did not exist at the time.
Based on the above, my opinion is that this law is meaningless and has no bearing on funding of the UA military unit called the Azov Regiment, and furthermore, does nothing to prove the existence of substantial neo-Nazi elements in the UA military today.
Use the same method to assess whether the Leahy Law, has any effect as well. Has the Secretary of State made the requisite determination that today's Azov Regiment has committed gross human rights violations? Remember, a determination is needed to block any funding of the Azov Regiment or other unit under the command and control of the UA government and military.
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Useful information for all of you, ahem, truthseekers. :thumbsup:
Yes, don't we all love bias confirmation?
You think Biden is an ahem, good politician and president. So much for your credibility and truth seeking.
And no I'm not a big Trump supporter FYI.
My opinion of Azov is just wiped out because of Biden????
I don't think it is bias confirmation. I know there are nazis in Ukraine, I'm just not convinced it's such a problem that Putin gets to declare war over it.
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I don't think it is bias confirmation. I know there are nazis in Ukraine, I'm just not convinced it's such a problem that Putin gets to declare war over it.
There are neonazis in pretty much every country in the world, if exclude totalitarian rule and control of the econmy (key tenets of naziism) from the definition. But, there are fewer neonazis in Ukraine than there are in any Western country. It's just not a huge problem, partly due to the way national consciousness developed (and was suppressed) in Ukraine. Anyone stating otherwise doesn't know Ukrainian history very well. The fact is that millions of Ukrainians spoke, and speak, Russian as their daily language. That is the result of deliberate policies of Russification spanning centuries. But it also negates the existence of neonaziism in Ukraine. How can Ukraine have these "Ukrainian neonazis" espousing extreme nationalist views re Ukrainians, in a language other than Ukrainian? Where the patriarch of a foreign nations (Russia) controls the administration of thousands of churches, and where money collected in those very churches makes its way back to Moscow?
If any country has demonstrated fascist tendencies, it is Russia, with its support of extreme nationalism, its superiority complex (particulary in "ethnic Russians" vs any former Soviet republic), its state control of wealth, its control of media, its obsession with national security, the state control of the Russian Orthodox Church, and its disregard for human rights.
Ukraine has a lot of problems, don't get me wrong - mostly related to corruption. But naziism was never an issue there, and anyone stating otherwise is either mistaken or lying.
-
Sorry for the typos. My pc is acting up-freezing, so I often am "locked out" of corrections once I post. I suspect I need a new motherboard.
-
Here are reliable sources:
Quoting Andreas Umland, a scholar who has studied the Azov Regiment -
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220325-azov-regiment-takes-centre-stage-in-ukraine-propaganda-war
https://crossing.cw.com.tw/article/16071
Anton Shekhovtsov, an academic who is an ethnic Russian from Crimea -
https://icds.ee/en/anton-shekhovtsov-helping-those-azov-nazis/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-azov-should-not-be-designated-a-foreign-terrorist-organization/
Alasdair McCallum, a PhD candidate -
https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world
You can dismiss this as a Ukrainian source, but it is accurate, nevertheless -
https://krytyka.com/en/articles/too-much-ado-about-ukrainian-nationalists-the-azov-movement-and-the-war-in-ukraine
What most of you "Russian experts" fail to address, or perhaps even realise, is that the current Russian leadership is all former KGB, the repressive organ of the CPSU which kept the country together by force. In Soviet times, they released significant disinformation campaigns in the West, mostly successful because Westerners take things at face value. As a student studying the USSR, I read of the trial of Sinyavsky and Daniel, and its aftermath. I realised both were part of a KGB disinformation campaign, primarily because of actions after their trial. It wasn't a popular opinon at the time, even my professor (who worked for the CIA), didn't believe me. But I was proven correct on the collapse of the USSR, when the CPSU was put on trial, and archived documents were accessed by Vladimir Bukovsky.
The former KGB hasn't changed its spots nor, really, its tactics. And the same type of Western idiot, enamoured of all things "Russian", falls for it again.
So, continue to believe what you wish, despite the assertions of scholars who study this for a living. You can feel morally superior and all tingly as more Ukrainians die at the hands of Russian missiles, all while you support an authoritarian ruler who kills or imprisons those who disagree with him.
Useful information for all of you, ahem, truthseekers. :thumbsup:
Yes, don't we all love bias confirmation?
You think Biden is an ahem, good politician and president. So much for your credibility and truth seeking.
And no I'm not a big Trump supporter FYI.
Calling it as I see it is neither wrong nor simplistic.
So, I reject your assertion and ask you prove where I have been mistaken.
I strongly suggest seeing an ophthalmologist as your vision problems seem severe.
I just checked these 2 people below, read the article/interview and had seen enough not to bother with the others.
Anton Shekhovtsov (PhD) is a director at The Centre for Democratic Integrity, a Vienna-based non-profit association monitoring attempts of authoritarian regimes to influence politics, societies and public governance in Europe, and Associated Researcher at the Research Center for the History of Transformations at the University of Vienna (Austria).
I guess because he was born in Crimea we're supposed to assume he's unbiased :laugh:. His interview is IMO full of biased remarks and typical anti-Russian rhetoric.
Heidi Maiberg is a PhD Candidate (Criminology) at Royal Holloway, University of London. In her dissertation, she researches European and Northern American deradicalisation and disengagement programmes with a focus on ways how programmes measure their impact. She also keeps an eye on ways how to prevent violent extremism through education, and changes in the Baltic extremist milieu.
The article is in collaboration with the ICDS, an Estonian rag, and "special edition" for the Lennart Meri Conference with such guest speakers and notorious truth seekers (:) as.
David Cattler - NATO Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security
John Allen - USMC General (Ret.), Non-Resident Distinguished Fellow at Royal United Services Institute (RUSI)
Thomas Bagger - Ambassador of Germany in Poland
Benedetta Berti - Head of Policy Planning in the Office of the Secretary General at NATO
Stephen Biegun - Senior Vice President of the Boeing Company, former US Deputy Secretary of State
Christopher G Cavoli - Commander of the US European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe among other "notable" presenters.
Gee, thanks for the unbiased "facts". (:)
Well done for having the patience to investigate the so called scholars.
I've been too busy to deep dive today but very often people like to name drop in an attempt to give credibility to their bias and more often than not, said expert is funded or uses their position to push their political bias.
For the simple and lazy, they just assume that said reference is a well read neutral source spending hours of their free time readying information for us mere mortals to learn recite and quote, to push the narrative. No agenda here.
It's a bit like using Jeffry Dahmer to justify a bit of casual poof killing.
-
Very little of what was Azor fighter remain what it was at its founding.
Because Russia smashed them at the beginning of the SMO and most of them are now dead.
So, you think these thousand men of Azor Battalion self-funded is what is keep Russia at bay?
We know from official papers, that the US pumped trillions into arming them. They were not self funded. See the link above from Mark if you aren't sure.
So now we have what Russian supporters here are claiming is Nazis in Ukraine are an important part of the war when really it was only a few hundred men at best. These men are not a Russian problem and did not give Russia any reason to invade the country.
You might want to read up on that because you're very wrong. The Azov were set up to fight ethnic Russians in the east and were funded & armed by the US and others, to do their dirty work.
This is why Putin didn't like them. Armed nazi's fighting and killing ethnic Russians in the east post 2014.
So if Putin killed them all why the war?
Because it wasn't solely based on denazification. You know this right?
Putins reasons vary from understandable to far fetched but it takes a complete idiot to think it was because the whole of Ukraine is full of nazis and nothing else.
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But, there are fewer neonazis in Ukraine than there are in any Western country.
Because they're all now dead, amputees or in prison. Otherwise thats a ridiculous statement. I'm yet to see heavily armed nazis rolling round Edinburgh in tanks, committing serious crime or influencing state control.
In fact I'm yet to see anyone funding it but that's because Russia and ethnic Russians barely exist here. Nice attempt at fudging reality though.
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You are wrong about the Azov Regiment.
In your opinion.
As far as I have read, I have seen no posts by the "usual suspects" suggesting Russia has committed war crimes (rape, torture, castration of soldiers, execution of civilians), all documented by the UN or independent bodies. I have read nothing denouncing this invasion of Ukraine. I haven't even read a denunciation of the drafting of criminals and fighting by soldiers for hire by Russia.
And this is where the cyclical discussion ensues.
I'm yet to see anyone celebrating, excusing or encouraging what Russia have done but many have looked to dissect the SMO and see where it all began.
For the avoidance of doubt, I wholeheartedly disagree with this war and it could and should have been stopped before the first shot. It's disgusting and innocent people are losing everything, many won't be able to get back what they cherish most.
Yet those who refused to suck up the western narrative and seek a more balance view point, are accused of siding with Russia and justifying even the most heinous, disgusting and out of order acts.
But let's turn this round, where are the pro Ukraine mob when the war crimes are committed and the inexcusable acts carried out by the heroes? There's plenty out there including yesterdays drone footage of Ukrainian soldiers executing ethnic Russian Ukrainians travelling in a car clad with white flags? Where was the western media covering it, where was the balance of media showing how horrific this whole disgusting event is?
Why do they refuse to show the world "Bradly alley" where tens of thousands of Ukrainian men have perished in the last month, hundreds of western donated vehicles destroyed and prisoners, teenagers, pensions and foreigners have been rounded up and pushed into death by Ukraine?
Don't ever confuse someone looking to voice reality with being a Putin shill because that's just marking you look silly.
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But, there are fewer neonazis in Ukraine than there are in any Western country.
Because they're all now dead, amputees or in prison. Otherwise thats a ridiculous statement. I'm yet to see heavily armed nazis rolling round Edinburgh in tanks, committing serious crime or influencing state control.
In fact I'm yet to see anyone funding it but that's because Russia and ethnic Russians barely exist here. Nice attempt at fudging reality though.
Never say never, rosco. It's happening right now in front of your eyes!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/05/four-held-on-suspicion-of-being-members-of-outlawed-neo-nazi-group-national-action
Five serving members of the British army have been arrested on suspicion of being members of the recently banned neo-Nazi group National Action.
https://theferret.scot/army-neo-nazi-prevent/
Concerns were raised last year over links between the UK’s armed forces and far right groups after the conviction of Lance Corporal Mikko Vehvilainen, a white supremacist who was jailed for eight years.
The Afghan veteran was found guilty of belonging to National Action, the banned neo-Nazi terror group with an offshoot called Scottish Dawn, also now proscribed. Vehvilainen served with the Royal Anglian Regiment but was a self confessed racist who acted as a recruiter for National Action.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1677703/uk-military-neo-nazi-extremist-terrorism-insiders-arrested-reports
The UK military is being targeted by far-right extremists as a shocking number of new recruits are referred to the terrorist prevention programme. Following a Freedom of Information request by the Times, the Ministry of Defence revealed that 40 soldiers, sailors and air force personnel had been investigated over concerns of extremism since records began in 2019.
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/uk-far-right-british-army-extremism-europe-news-17712/
The Far Right Has a History of Infiltrating the British Army
Colin Jordan, of the National Socialist Movement, was said to find his best recruiting grounds at the Royal Marine Commando depot in Plymouth.
Waat?? only started taking names in 2019?? This is only the tip of the iceberg and proof that the UK military ranks are filled with heavily armed neo-Nazi's and fascists!! Some may even be driving tanks rolling round Edinburgh!!
------------------------------------------
nb - I do not believe UK military is a neo-Nazi force. My post above is only intended to illustrate the use of the same measuring stick rosco uses for Ukraine.
-
Very little of what was Azor fighter remain what it was at its founding.
Because Russia smashed them at the beginning of the SMO and most of them are now dead.
So, you think these thousand men of Azor Battalion self-funded is what is keep Russia at bay?
We know from official papers, that the US pumped trillions into arming them. They were not self funded. See the link above from Mark if you aren't sure.
So now we have what Russian supporters here are claiming is Nazis in Ukraine are an important part of the war when really it was only a few hundred men at best. These men are not a Russian problem and did not give Russia any reason to invade the country.
You might want to read up on that because you're very wrong. The Azov were set up to fight ethnic Russians in the east and were funded & armed by the US and others, to do their dirty work.
This is why Putin didn't like them. Armed nazi's fighting and killing ethnic Russians in the east post 2014.
So if Putin killed them all why the war?
Because it wasn't solely based on denazification. You know this right?
Putins reasons vary from understandable to far fetched but it takes a complete idiot to think it was because the whole of Ukraine is full of nazis and nothing else.
You have gone far beyond even the Russian propaganda in being ridiculous.
-
------------------------------------------
nb - I do not believe UK military is a neo-Nazi force. My post above is only intended to illustrate the use of the same measuring stick rosco uses for Ukraine.
Are you suggesting that a handful of blokes from a guardian report in 2017 is anything like the same level as the Azov Battalion? Again, did I say there were no idiots in other countries? You seem to be losing the plot BC.
Where are all these blokes walking round Scottish streets with nazi tattoos, uniforms and insignia? What court houses have they gate crashed, what judges have they attacked? Have they received trillions of dollars in foreign funding and weapons training? Can you link me the long list of war crimes they've committed, just like their Azov brothers?
Ah so on a completely different scale yet BC thinks he's being clever and showing us all how our own countries have our very own Azov Battalion's lurking around our streets. :chuckle:
You do realise how stupid this makes you look BC?
-
Very little of what was Azor fighter remain what it was at its founding.
Because Russia smashed them at the beginning of the SMO and most of them are now dead.
So, you think these thousand men of Azor Battalion self-funded is what is keep Russia at bay?
We know from official papers, that the US pumped trillions into arming them. They were not self funded. See the link above from Mark if you aren't sure.
So now we have what Russian supporters here are claiming is Nazis in Ukraine are an important part of the war when really it was only a few hundred men at best. These men are not a Russian problem and did not give Russia any reason to invade the country.
You might want to read up on that because you're very wrong. The Azov were set up to fight ethnic Russians in the east and were funded & armed by the US and others, to do their dirty work.
This is why Putin didn't like them. Armed nazi's fighting and killing ethnic Russians in the east post 2014.
So if Putin killed them all why the war?
Because it wasn't solely based on denazification. You know this right?
Putins reasons vary from understandable to far fetched but it takes a complete idiot to think it was because the whole of Ukraine is full of nazis and nothing else.
You have gone far beyond even the Russian propaganda in being ridiculous.
Care to explain that?
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I know there are nazis in Ukraine, I'm just not convinced it's such a problem that Putin gets to declare war over it.
I believe that this part has been over played and blown out of proportion. Putin never declared war and his SMO wasn't because Ukraine is full of nazi's.
It was one of a number of reasons and with closer inspection, Putin took exception to the foreign funded far right nazi soldiers, who were set up to operate in ethnic Russian regions and fight ethnic Russians.
He wanted rid of those elements (denazification) and it became a political football used by the west, to make Putin look crazy. In the end, the Russian forces killed and destroyed most of these far right nazi soldiers in the early days of the SMO and he did what they said they would do.
I don't think it's accurate or helpful for people to think or suggest that Putin believes that the whole of Ukraine is under Nazi control. We all know that's simply not true.
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Indeed, the Nazis aren't the main aim, but they do tie into it. The main stated aim is to demilitarise Ukraine and force its neutrality so it can not present a further risk to Russia. The fact Ukraine is committing terrorist acts on Russian territory will force Russia to keep escalating.
It seems likely now after another attack on the Kerch bridge by a British drone smuggled in on a ship pretending to carry peaceful goods, Russia is going to essentially close Ukraine's ports. Ukraine has proved it cannot be trusted even to move grain without smuggling western weapons in, and now that deal has expired it won't be renewed.
Land bridge to Moldova incoming and what remains of Ukraine landlocked, probably.
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Smuggling is not a one-sided process. Ukraine imports but the west exports.
And before any of the hard of thinking chime and say 'not smuggling', Ukraine agreed not to import munitions on ships carrying grain away from Ukraine. So, yes, it is smuggling.
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It seems likely now after another attack on the Kerch bridge by a British drone smuggled in on a ship pretending to carry peaceful goods, Russia is going to essentially close Ukraine's ports. Ukraine has proved it cannot be trusted even to move grain without smuggling western weapons in, and now that deal has expired it won't be renewed.
Any facts or other evidence support this theory? AFAIK ships were inspected, going in empty and after loading grain in Ukraine.
https://www.world-grain.com/articles/17933-ukraine-urges-faster-ship-inspections
Ukraine’s infrastructure ministry said 94 vessels were waiting for inspection in the Bosphorus, including 69 empty vessels for loading and 25 that had already been loaded with agricultural products. Vessels are waiting for an average of more than a month, the ministry said.
If UK drones were used, far easier and quicker to send a few trucks.
Does UA produce such drones?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-claims-ukrainian-drone-boats-attacked-its-navy-ship-off-turkey
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The only drone that damaged the bridge were drones that floated or were underwater manufactured by Ukraine. The only ship that may have brough a drone in is one going to a Russia port and went under the bridge as one of the water drones was released from the sea of the Azor. Russia shot down all aero drones and missiles. I am under the impression there was only one of those and it was USSR built.
Why sneak it in on a ship when you truck it across the border from Romania or Poland?
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It seems likely now after another attack on the Kerch bridge by a British drone smuggled in on a ship pretending to carry peaceful goods, Russia is going to essentially close Ukraine's ports. Ukraine has proved it cannot be trusted even to move grain without smuggling western weapons in, and now that deal has expired it won't be renewed.
Any facts or other evidence support this theory? AFAIK ships were inspected, going in empty and after loading grain in Ukraine.
https://www.world-grain.com/articles/17933-ukraine-urges-faster-ship-inspections
Ukraine’s infrastructure ministry said 94 vessels were waiting for inspection in the Bosphorus, including 69 empty vessels for loading and 25 that had already been loaded with agricultural products. Vessels are waiting for an average of more than a month, the ministry said.
If UK drones were used, far easier and quicker to send a few trucks.
Does UA produce such drones?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-claims-ukrainian-drone-boats-attacked-its-navy-ship-off-turkey
Classic BC. Looks like a fish, sounds like a fish, smells like a fish and even feels like a fish but please prove to me it wasn't a fish.
Let's face it, Ukraine and their backers won't admit to anything in the press unless it suits them so you either watch the actions and consider other information sources or repeat the "official sources" supplied by our "allies" and label it facts.
Ukraine or the Uk would never ever ever admit to anything justifying those actions, it's called propaganda and media war.
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It seems likely now after another attack on the Kerch bridge by a British drone smuggled in on a ship pretending to carry peaceful goods, Russia is going to essentially close Ukraine's ports. Ukraine has proved it cannot be trusted even to move grain without smuggling western weapons in, and now that deal has expired it won't be renewed.
Any facts or other evidence support this theory? AFAIK ships were inspected, going in empty and after loading grain in Ukraine.
https://www.world-grain.com/articles/17933-ukraine-urges-faster-ship-inspections
Ukraine’s infrastructure ministry said 94 vessels were waiting for inspection in the Bosphorus, including 69 empty vessels for loading and 25 that had already been loaded with agricultural products. Vessels are waiting for an average of more than a month, the ministry said.
If UK drones were used, far easier and quicker to send a few trucks.
Does UA produce such drones?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-claims-ukrainian-drone-boats-attacked-its-navy-ship-off-turkey
Classic BC. Looks like a fish, sounds like a fish, smells like a fish and even feels like a fish but please prove to me it wasn't a fish.
Let's face it, Ukraine and their backers won't admit to anything in the press unless it suits them so you either watch the actions and consider other information sources or repeat the "official sources" supplied by our "allies" and label it facts.
Ukraine or the Uk would never ever ever admit to anything justifying those actions, it's called propaganda and media war.
rosco, I've worked in the the logistics industry for decades. What you describe makes no sense whatsoever. Is there anything specific to substantiate your opinion other than 'he said, she said?', seemingly in a manner that somehow justifies the Kremlin dropping out of the grain deal?
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It seems likely now after another attack on the Kerch bridge by a British drone smuggled in on a ship pretending to carry peaceful goods, Russia is going to essentially close Ukraine's ports. Ukraine has proved it cannot be trusted even to move grain without smuggling western weapons in, and now that deal has expired it won't be renewed.
Any facts or other evidence support this theory? AFAIK ships were inspected, going in empty and after loading grain in Ukraine.
https://www.world-grain.com/articles/17933-ukraine-urges-faster-ship-inspections
Ukraine’s infrastructure ministry said 94 vessels were waiting for inspection in the Bosphorus, including 69 empty vessels for loading and 25 that had already been loaded with agricultural products. Vessels are waiting for an average of more than a month, the ministry said.
If UK drones were used, far easier and quicker to send a few trucks.
Does UA produce such drones?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-claims-ukrainian-drone-boats-attacked-its-navy-ship-off-turkey
Classic BC. Looks like a fish, sounds like a fish, smells like a fish and even feels like a fish but please prove to me it wasn't a fish.
Let's face it, Ukraine and their backers won't admit to anything in the press unless it suits them so you either watch the actions and consider other information sources or repeat the "official sources" supplied by our "allies" and label it facts.
Ukraine or the Uk would never ever ever admit to anything justifying those actions, it's called propaganda and media war.
This is simple;
1.) Russia has not ‘pulled’ out of the grain deal.
2.) Russia wants relief from the sanctions.
3.) The rest is Russian smoke and mirrors or propaganda.
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Actually, the grain deal expired, Russia has chosen not to renew it. There is an explanation of why here: https://twitter.com/upholdreality/status/1682769951289950208
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Actually, the grain deal expired, Russia has chosen not to renew it. There is an explanation of why here: https://twitter.com/upholdreality/status/1682769951289950208
A good read and yet further meat on the bones, to destroy the western media narrative. Facts over feelings.
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All men currently in Ukraine between the ages of 18-65 aren't allowed to leave and it seems like Zelensky isn't paying much attention to human rights. All these men are essentially being held in Ukraine and made to fight against Russia. It's not optional, it's compulsory. They don't just fight for a while and do their bit, its a fight to the finish, victory or death.
Retired special forces colonel Anatoly Matviychuk has admitted in an interview with ura.ru that around 400,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed and another 300,000 - 400,000 wounded and with the offensive in full flow, its estimated that Ukraine are losing about 4 times as many men as the Russians. Many Ukrainians are now seeking to avoid draft papers by going under ground, bribing officials and a record number are now handing themselves over to the Russians on the front lines.
The movement is now being supported by the nationalist battalions and the administrative and repressive apparatus of the state. Most idealistic young Ukrainian men who were motivated to fight, are now dead or injured. Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has reported that Ukraine has lost more than 26,000 troops in the last month alone during the counter offensive. In addition they've also lost 3,000 units of various weapons and vehicles.
Meanwhile Russia is gaining large swathes of ground around Kharkov as they continue to win more land in key areas.
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More funny news from Ukraine.
Valerii Zuluzhnyiu commander in chief of the armed forces of Ukraine, spoke at an international conference in Odessa and he asked professors of law to legalise war crimes committed by Ukrainian forces. It kinda proves that they've been at it all along.
Meanwhile the west just shout about nasty Russian soldiers.
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All men currently in Ukraine between the ages of 18-65 aren't allowed to leave and it seems like Zelensky isn't paying much attention to human rights. All these men are essentially being held in Ukraine and made to fight against Russia. It's not optional, it's compulsory. They don't just fight for a while and do their bit, its a fight to the finish, victory or death.
Why don't you talk about conditions Russian conscripts face since you are just a truth seeker without any partiality? Left in fox whole. No rotation often short ammo, short food and will serve until war ends or dead. Then there is the fun part. Shot by own troops if they surrender or retreat.
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All men currently in Ukraine between the ages of 18-65 aren't allowed to leave and it seems like Zelensky isn't paying much attention to human rights. All these men are essentially being held in Ukraine and made to fight against Russia. It's not optional, it's compulsory. They don't just fight for a while and do their bit, its a fight to the finish, victory or death.
Why don't you talk about conditions Russian conscripts face since you are just a truth seeker without any partiality? Left in fox whole. No rotation often short ammo, short food and will serve until war ends or dead. Then there is the fun part. Shot by own troops if they surrender or retreat.
Because our media is always telling us what's going on with the Russians, even when it's fake news. What they very often leave out, is what the Ukrainians are doing.
And you're wrong on many counts, proving how brain washed you are. Watching interviews and go pro clips of the fighting from the Russian perspective, gives you a very different picture to that being painted by MSM. Highly motivated soldiers with modern kit and plenty rations.
The age limit for the compulsory military draft in Russia will be raised from 27 to 30 begining January 24 and the soldiers get a minimum of 6 months training before deployment. Upon deployment, they're sent to safer zones to build up experience and carry out further training, whilst the most experienced are on the front line.
Meanwhile back in Ukraine, officials get rich taking bribes from wealthy families whilst stopping plumbers and pensioners at road blocks before handing them their papers. 2 weeks training, bussed to the front line without weapons and then thrown into the meat grinder.
There's an interview on socials from a young Ukrainian bloke who's a plumber and he tells us how people won't go out to do jobs because they'll get caught at road blocks and sent to the front lines. All whilst Zelensky plays the hero on camera.
Current reports are stating that Ukraine are losing men on a ratio of 7-1 and its around 400+ men a day lost. So bloody sad, all of it.
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All men currently in Ukraine between the ages of 18-65 aren't allowed to leave and it seems like Zelensky isn't paying much attention to human rights. All these men are essentially being held in Ukraine and made to fight against Russia. It's not optional, it's compulsory. They don't just fight for a while and do their bit, its a fight to the finish, victory or death.
Why don't you talk about conditions Russian conscripts face since you are just a truth seeker without any partiality? Left in fox whole. No rotation often short ammo, short food and will serve until war ends or dead. Then there is the fun part. Shot by own troops if they surrender or retreat.
Because our media is always telling us what's going on with the Russians, even when it's fake news. What they very often leave out, is what the Ukrainians are doing.
And you're wrong on many counts, proving how brain washed you are. Watching interviews and go pro clips of the fighting from the Russian perspective, gives you a very different picture to that being painted by MSM. Highly motivated soldiers with modern kit and plenty rations.
The age limit for the compulsory military draft in Russia will be raised from 27 to 30 begining January 24 and the soldiers get a minimum of 6 months training before deployment. Upon deployment, they're sent to safer zones to build up experience and carry out further training, whilst the most experienced are on the front line.
Meanwhile back in Ukraine, officials get rich taking bribes from wealthy families whilst stopping plumbers and pensioners at road blocks before handing them their papers. 2 weeks training, bussed to the front line without weapons and then thrown into the meat grinder.
There's an interview on socials from a young Ukrainian bloke who's a plumber and he tells us how people won't go out to do jobs because they'll get caught at road blocks and sent to the front lines. All whilst Zelensky plays the hero on camera.
Current reports are stating that Ukraine are losing men on a ratio of 7-1 and its around 400+ men a day lost. So bloody sad, all of it.
Yea so you go to the most fake media of all. The Russian media. Now that is what I call dumb.
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All men currently in Ukraine between the ages of 18-65 aren't allowed to leave and it seems like Zelensky isn't paying much attention to human rights. All these men are essentially being held in Ukraine and made to fight against Russia. It's not optional, it's compulsory. They don't just fight for a while and do their bit, its a fight to the finish, victory or death.
Why don't you talk about conditions Russian conscripts face since you are just a truth seeker without any partiality? Left in fox whole. No rotation often short ammo, short food and will serve until war ends or dead. Then there is the fun part. Shot by own troops if they surrender or retreat.
Because our media is always telling us what's going on with the Russians, even when it's fake news. What they very often leave out, is what the Ukrainians are doing.
And you're wrong on many counts, proving how brain washed you are. Watching interviews and go pro clips of the fighting from the Russian perspective, gives you a very different picture to that being painted by MSM. Highly motivated soldiers with modern kit and plenty rations.
The age limit for the compulsory military draft in Russia will be raised from 27 to 30 begining January 24 and the soldiers get a minimum of 6 months training before deployment. Upon deployment, they're sent to safer zones to build up experience and carry out further training, whilst the most experienced are on the front line.
Meanwhile back in Ukraine, officials get rich taking bribes from wealthy families whilst stopping plumbers and pensioners at road blocks before handing them their papers. 2 weeks training, bussed to the front line without weapons and then thrown into the meat grinder.
There's an interview on socials from a young Ukrainian bloke who's a plumber and he tells us how people won't go out to do jobs because they'll get caught at road blocks and sent to the front lines. All whilst Zelensky plays the hero on camera.
Current reports are stating that Ukraine are losing men on a ratio of 7-1 and its around 400+ men a day lost. So bloody sad, all of it.
Yea so you go to the most fake media of all. The Russian media. Now that is what I call dumb.
Wrong again Tex.
Western/Ukrainian/Russian/Eatern European investigative journalists who cover the conflict on TikTok. They use internal sources, interviews, satellite data and go pro/drone footage to corroborate their daily posts. There are many Ukrainians using socials to complain about their situation.
I know that you're so far gone you dont know which ways up but the world isnt how you imagine it to be Tex.
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I watched an interesting piece on TikTok this evening, covering the current state of play in Ukraine, when it comes to conscription.
I understand one man took the government to court and he's found a loop hole which essentially voids the draft. Russia have called it the SMO and Ukraine still haven't declared it as war. Ukraine can only draft civilians and send them to the front lines to die, if the country is at war.
Apparently the state prosecutor had to agree with him and this may now slow the recruitment, now the cats out the bag.
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That'll change nothing in practice. The press gangs will continue their activities, the administrative process will continue.
Control of the news media will ensure few people know about the case. The targets will not have the money, time or resources to fight their own conscription.
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Our media has slowly starting to nod towards the true face of war on the front lines, after all they can't keep the lies up given all the footage taken on the modern battlefield.
Western intelligence and the media very rarely give credit to Russian forces and instead focus on feel good stories and propaganda about how poorly equipped, trained and motivated the Russians are and how strong, brave and successful Ukraine is. Keep the sheep onside and the money flowing......
However, even the BBC posted an article about the realities of the offensive but they did throw in a few classics, to keep them very much on the side of Ukraine.
Ukraine war: Western armour struggles against Russian defences.
The general in charge of Ukraine's stuttering counter-offensive in the south has said Russian defences are making it difficult for military equipment, including Western tanks and armoured vehicles, to move forward.
Gen Oleksandr Tarnavskyi says his forces are struggling to overcome multi-layered minefields and fortified defensive lines.
He says Russia's military has displayed "professional qualities" by preventing Ukrainian forces from "advancing quickly".
Ukraine's 47th Brigade, which had largely been trained and equipped by the West to try to break through Russian lines, were soon stopped in their tracks by mines and then targeted by artillery.
Doc shows me a video he recently filmed from one of his drones while Ukrainian troops advanced towards a Russian trench.
There's a massive explosion as soon as the soldiers enter. The trench was empty but rigged with mines. Doc says Russian forces are now using remotely controlled mines. "When our soldiers get to the trenches they push a button and it blows up, killing our friends." He says he's seen the tactic being used over the past two weeks and calls it "a new weapon".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66306150
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Expectation management going on. It will have to be a relatively slow process in order to allow the masses to forget what they have been told about superhuman Ukrainians.
And, of course, along the way, the lies will continue, they will change in form, but the program will continue.
Oh, and there's going to be a lot more finger pointing, shoulder sloping and reality denial!
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And so it begins.
You would have thought that the lessons learned from the humanitarian disaster left behind in Vietnam and Cambodia, where the US indiscriminately scattered millions of cluster munitions all over country and has since killed or injured 70,000+ civilians, that sending more to Ukraine would be a bad idea? Is it desperation or do the US not care what weapons are used on foreign civilians outside of their own borders?
Some claim that Russia have been using them already but this is denied by the Kremlin. They did say that they will if Ukraine does. I'm sure the west will say it was the Russians fault but it's a bit of a coincidence that this happened weeks after the US sent the munitions over to Ukraine. Until now, we haven't heard much about it.
Farmer killed by unexploded cluster bomb.
A farmer died after an unexploded cluster bomb detonated in southern Ukraine, an official has said. Serhii Shaihet, head of police in the Nikolayev region, said on Telegram that the incident happened near the village of Lepetikha. Two tractor drivers arrived at the field to prepare straw for cattle, he said, when one stepped on a cluster projectile lying in the ground.
The device detonated, killing a 48-year-old man and injuring the other. "Once again, I appeal to citizens to be as attentive and careful as possible, especially in those settlements that were subjected to active shelling," Mr Shaihet said.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-possible-reason-putin-is-letting-wagner-boss-sit-easy-attacks-near-nato-border-worrying-putin-to-visit-china-12541713
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It did not say if it was a Russian or a Nato cluster bomb. Russia had been using them since the beginning of the war. So why should Ukraine be disadvantaged by not being able to use them?
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It did not say if it was a Russian or a Nato cluster bomb. Russia had been using them since the beginning of the war. So why should Ukraine be disadvantaged by not being able to use them?
Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
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Current reports are stating that Ukraine are losing men on a ratio of 7-1 and its around 400+ men a day lost. So bloody sad, all of it.
While I am uncertain where the numbers that Rosco are coming from, they do not add up. If true the Ukraine army would have folded shop some +/- 200 days ago. The highest number of Ukraine losses of man power reported are just over 200,000 men. The source was a pro-Russian outlet. Other ‘news’ outlets place a number of just over 10,000 men lost. I doubt that number as well.
Let’s just say that too many soldiers on both sides have died because of one tyrants ill informed intel, oversized ego and hubris.
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Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
What nonsense or pure bull shit. Early on in the war Russian use of cluster bombs was the subject of a debate in the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
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Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
What nonsense or pure bull shit. Early on in the war Russian use of cluster bombs was the subject of a debate in the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
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Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
Sure about that?
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Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
Sure about that?
After some googling: yes i am
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Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
Sure about that?
After some googling: yes i am
Maybe list your sources?
https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=IND&mtdsg_no=XXVI-6&chapter=26&clang=_en
https://www.clusterconvention.org/states-parties/
I don't see the US, Ukraine, Russia, China and a couple of others listed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0rG4s00/Screenshot-2023-07-29-at-19-15-04.jpg)
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Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
You are 'partially' correct in the context of the US doing whatever and whenever it wants anytime, anywhere. Including the use of cluster bombs.
IIRC, the US, under Bush, not only strongly opposed to the treaty, it instead made international calls to world leaders to join it in its opposition to banning the use of cluster bombs. While the US didn't succeed in doing that, it managed to find a loophole (I think) to allow the US military the use of cluster bombs in certain circumstances. I don't remember the exact terms or wording on the 'concession'.
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Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
What nonsense or pure bull shit. Early on in the war Russian use of cluster bombs was the subject of a debate in the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
Nice dodge.
Worth noting Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum.
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WE sent no cluster bombs. We sent cluster ammo for 155MM artillery. If you do not understand the difference, I am sorry for you. We sent nothing cluster for missiles and no cluster bombs for aircraft. Ukraine agreed to only use it in rural areas.
Russia have mined rural with so many mines in some place it is up to four minds per square meter. These mines are the main reason Ukraine is having a hard time advancing. After the war what is likely to kill more civilians than the cluster ammo is the mines that do not get cleared.
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https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/ua-dpicm.htm?utm_content=cmp-true
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On the subject of killing civilians with impunity and holding one accountable as a war criminal, they should start with the maestro of the 2014 Ukrainian coup. None other than the US and Democrat Obama himself. The Nobel Peace Price recipient himself.
LMAO. See how twisted this whole global politics can really be? Not least of which, how western media can very easily dupe the brainless gullible?
Obama also began an air campaign targeting Yemen. His first strike was a catastrophe: commanders thought they were targeting al Qaeda but instead hit a tribe with cluster munitions, killing 55 people. Twenty-one were children – 10 of them under five. Twelve were women, five of them pregnant.
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush
I haven’t factored Libya yet. Look what he did there and where that is still today? Lol. Many Americans regard that idiot as a great president. What a hoot!
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On the subject of killing civilians with impunity and holding one accountable as a war criminal, they should start with the maestro of the 2014 Ukrainian coup. None other than the US and Democrat Obama himself. The Nobel Peace Price recipient himself.
LMAO. See how twisted this whole global politics can really be? Not least of which, how western media can very easily dupe the brainless gullible?
Obama also began an air campaign targeting Yemen. His first strike was a catastrophe: commanders thought they were targeting al Qaeda but instead hit a tribe with cluster munitions, killing 55 people. Twenty-one were children - 10 of them under five. Twelve were women, five of them pregnant.
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush
I haven't factored Libya yet. Look what he did there and where that is still today? Lol. Many Americans regard that idiot as a great president. What a hoot!
You would be remiss if you didn't think Obama was behind all of Biden's Geopolitics
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Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
What nonsense or pure bull shit. Early on in the war Russian use of cluster bombs was the subject of a debate in the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
You mean like Russia lied by agreeing to respect Ukrainian territorial borders in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum?
B/B
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Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
What nonsense or pure bull shit. Early on in the war Russian use of cluster bombs was the subject of a debate in the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
You mean like Russia lied by agreeing to respect Ukrainian territorial borders in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum?
B/B
And how the west lied to Russia about expanding nato eastwards?
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https://news.mail.ru/incident/57209400/
One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stopped a column of APU equipment in the Zaporozhye direction
The enemy armored vehicles were destroyed.
"One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stops an entire enemy company," the message reads.
Judging by the footage, the Russian military noticed the approach of a column of Ukrainian equipment consisting of tanks and armored vehicles. A Russian tank moved towards the column, which opened fire on enemy armored vehicles, forcing it to stop moving. Then Russian artillery hit tanks and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, destroying them.
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https://aif.ru/politics/world/polskie_meshki_dlya_trupov_polya_na_peredovoy_useyany_telami_soldat_vsu?utm_source=news.mail&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=mail_barter
26.07.2023
The Russian military notes that the fields and forest belts along the entire line of contact are dotted with corpses of Ukrainian servicemen. Many were destroyed by the fire of the Russian army, many died of their wounds without waiting for the evacuation teams of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. "In the last two days, on radio interceptions (enemy) next to us (I will not say where the settlement is), they have from 70 to 100 people of irretrievable losses," said the commander of the "Bars-10" detachment with the call sign Saturn from the "Tsar's Wolves" brigade.
The officer also says that the Ukrainian assault company stupidly attacked our positions in the forehead several times, but each time it rolled back, leaving killed and wounded in front of the Russian trenches. "They definitely had a three hundredth company commander. The evacuation platoon could not come in and pick up their personnel, so their "three hundredths" move to the "two hundredths," said the commander of "Bars-10".
Zelensky's regime is trying in every possible way to disown the catastrophic losses of personnel on the front line. Although the Ukrainian president himself is simply hysterical about the reports received on this matter. According to Ukrainian Telegram channels, confirmed by the testimony of prisoners of war, commanders of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were tacitly ordered not to evacuate the bodies of the dead from the front line. Combat losses spoil the statistics and force the budget money allocated by Western sponsors to spend on payments to the families of the dead soldiers.
Refusals to pay "coffins" in the Ukrainian army are usually motivated by the "lack of information about the presence of a serviceman": deserter, missing or prisoner. And if there is still a deceased, then in the column "cause of death" they write - "other actions not caused directly by the enemy." There is a huge field for fantasy here: it could get under a "friendly fire" or it could have been poisoned with a scorched burner.
In connection with the recent frequent "Widow Maidans", demanding compensation payments for the loss of loved ones, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine has solved the problem radically. It simply eliminates military units de jure: no part, no payments, no problems. This situation is faced by Ukrainian widows trying to get the "truth" through the court.
The lawsuits are answered that there is no military unit (HF) like that and did not exist. Verification of details does show that RF does not legally exist. Thus, the 72nd Separate Motorized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, established back in 1992, simply evaporated. It turns out that the Ukrainian brigade destroyed by the Russian army near Ugledar never existed. And since there is no brigade, there are no dead, cripples and prisoners.
The losses are not just big, but monstrous. At the request of the Turkish and Israeli expert communities, there is talk about 200,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed. Mathematical models have modeled about the same figure - 238,962 killed to date. If this trend continues, the "great Ukrainians" will again become the subject of myths and legends.
By the way, Poland handed over to Ukraine... No, not Abrams, but corpse bags. Probably, when the last Taras dies, a proud Pole will move into his house.
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A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered near Donetsk in a car loaded with MANPADS
DONETSK, July 29. /TASS/. A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (APU) in a car loaded with portable anti-aircraft missile systems (manPADS) voluntarily surrendered to Russian forces in the Donetsk direction. This was reported to TASS by a representative of the law enforcement agencies of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).
"A couple of days ago, a Ukrainian fighter surrendered. I arrived, as they say, not empty-handed, but in a car that was loaded with MANPADS," said the agency interlocutor.
Maxim Tishchenko, who surrendered, turned out to be a fighter of the radar reconnaissance platoon of the anti-aircraft missile battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade, a native of the Lugansk People's Republic.
According to a representative of law enforcement agencies, about 20 MANPADS complexes were found in the back of the car on which a Ukrainian serviceman came to the positions of Russian forces.
Corruption in the prisoner's division
Tishchenko told TASS that the brigade commander sent 70% of the platoon to the rear, taking salary cards from the fighters in exchange.
"We have 30 people in the platoon, and there are 10. 20 people are considered escaped for us, but the division commander does not tell anyone about it because he has their salary cards. He covers them. That's how he withdraws their money. It's only in our platoon," Tishchenko said.
He specified that the salary of one serviceman is about 100 thousand hryvnias.
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And how the west lied to Russia about expanding nato eastwards?
Russia expanded Nato by threaten the countries to its southwest. So, they joined Nato. Thank Putin for Nato's existence as it was quietly dying before his many invasions.
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A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered near Donetsk in a car loaded with MANPADS
DONETSK, July 29. /TASS/. A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (APU) in a car loaded with portable anti-aircraft missile systems (manPADS) voluntarily surrendered to Russian forces in the Donetsk direction. This was reported to TASS by a representative of the law enforcement agencies of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).
"A couple of days ago, a Ukrainian fighter surrendered. I arrived, as they say, not empty-handed, but in a car that was loaded with MANPADS," said the agency interlocutor.
Maxim Tishchenko, who surrendered, turned out to be a fighter of the radar reconnaissance platoon of the anti-aircraft missile battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade, a native of the Lugansk People's Republic.
According to a representative of law enforcement agencies, about 20 MANPADS complexes were found in the back of the car on which a Ukrainian serviceman came to the positions of Russian forces.
Corruption in the prisoner's division
Tishchenko told TASS that the brigade commander sent 70% of the platoon to the rear, taking salary cards from the fighters in exchange.
"We have 30 people in the platoon, and there are 10. 20 people are considered escaped for us, but the division commander does not tell anyone about it because he has their salary cards. He covers them. That's how he withdraws their money. It's only in our platoon," Tishchenko said.
He specified that the salary of one serviceman is about 100 thousand hryvnias.
These claims, especially regarding the MANPADS were well documented? Have a link Orchid? I would think the Kremlin would be more than willing to openly provide such evidence to unequivocally substantiate the claim, including many photos, serial numbers, etc. A few folks in Congress and the press would be all over it like rabid dogs in minutes, but I hear nothing so far.
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https://news.mail.ru/incident/57209400/
One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stopped a column of APU equipment in the Zaporozhye direction
The enemy armored vehicles were destroyed.
"One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stops an entire enemy company," the message reads.
Judging by the footage, the Russian military noticed the approach of a column of Ukrainian equipment consisting of tanks and armored vehicles. A Russian tank moved towards the column, which opened fire on enemy armored vehicles, forcing it to stop moving. Then Russian artillery hit tanks and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, destroying them.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates
Segments of the Russian pro-war ultranationalist information space appear to be coalescing around the Kremlin’s narrative effort to portray the Ukrainian counteroffensive as a failure, increasingly overstating Ukrainian losses and writing less about Russia's losses and challenges than they had been. Prominent Russian milbloggers have been increasingly presenting Ukrainian counteroffensive operations inaccurately as a series of failed Ukrainian assaults along the entire line of contact.[1] Russian milbloggers widely amplified footage on July 29 claiming that it showed a single Russian tank defeating an entire Ukrainian company with armored vehicles as if the event had occurred recently, but the footage is actually from June 7 and shows Russian artillery units striking the Ukrainian column.[2] Russian sources have previously recirculated old footage to support claims that Ukrainian forces are suffering significant armored vehicle losses, and the amplification of the footage on July 29 indicates that Russian sources are deliberately amplifying old footage to support the Kremlin narrative.[3]
Draw your own conclusions as to the veracity of RU milblogger claims.
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I watched some blogs on the socials yesterday and two independent investigative journalists (one UK and the other Ukrainian) both reported corruption within the Ukrainian armed forces.
Apparently, soldiers wages are paid directly to company commanders and they distribute the cash as necessary. Apparently these company commanders have not been reporting huge numbers of deaths and have been pocketing the wages - paid for by western tax payers of course.
Groups of Ukrainian fighters have been filmed complaining about it and they are ready to surrender rather than fight because they feel that they're being sent on suicide missions whilst the corrupt commanders profit from their deaths.
I'll see if I can find the blogs again for a bit more detail but its not something that we'll be hearing about in our media whilst the fight against Russia is still ongoing.
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https://news.mail.ru/incident/57209400/
One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stopped a column of APU equipment in the Zaporozhye direction
The enemy armored vehicles were destroyed.
"One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stops an entire enemy company," the message reads.
Judging by the footage, the Russian military noticed the approach of a column of Ukrainian equipment consisting of tanks and armored vehicles. A Russian tank moved towards the column, which opened fire on enemy armored vehicles, forcing it to stop moving. Then Russian artillery hit tanks and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, destroying them.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates
Segments of the Russian pro-war ultranationalist information space appear to be coalescing around the Kremlin’s narrative effort to portray the Ukrainian counteroffensive as a failure, increasingly overstating Ukrainian losses and writing less about Russia's losses and challenges than they had been. Prominent Russian milbloggers have been increasingly presenting Ukrainian counteroffensive operations inaccurately as a series of failed Ukrainian assaults along the entire line of contact.[1] Russian milbloggers widely amplified footage on July 29 claiming that it showed a single Russian tank defeating an entire Ukrainian company with armored vehicles as if the event had occurred recently, but the footage is actually from June 7 and shows Russian artillery units striking the Ukrainian column.[2] Russian sources have previously recirculated old footage to support claims that Ukrainian forces are suffering significant armored vehicle losses, and the amplification of the footage on July 29 indicates that Russian sources are deliberately amplifying old footage to support the Kremlin narrative.[3]
Draw your own conclusions as to the veracity of RU milblogger claims.
Whilst that may be true BC, the hours of drone and go pro footage, showing hundreds of pieces of destroyed western equipment and tens of thousands of dead, injured and surrendering Ukrainian soldiers all along the front over the last few weeks, is indisputable.
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I'm sure losses are going to be high with UA trying to find the weakest links. As for the numbers, we won't know until it's over. Until then, only speculation.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zDx8TyM8/Screenshot-2023-07-30-at-16-42-30.jpg)
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Russia expanded Nato by threaten the countries to its southwest. So, they joined Nato. Thank Putin for Nato's existence as it was quietly dying before his many invasions.
And yet, when the shoe is on the other foot (cuba) you nearly destroyed the whole country for daring to choose Russia over the USA.
And one can want to join NATO, it is the members that decide if they can.
The baltics were allowed to join no problem because they're not a threat to Russia. Georgia and Ukraine however, are a direct threat to national security if they join NATO so Russia must make sure they don't. This isn't about anything else.
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And one can want to join NATO, it is the members that decide if they can.
And if they dont want to, you can always send money and cookies and overthrow the government, selecting a more western friendly government who would like to join NATO.
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A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered near Donetsk in a car loaded with MANPADS
DONETSK, July 29. /TASS/. A serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (APU) in a car loaded with portable anti-aircraft missile systems (manPADS) voluntarily surrendered to Russian forces in the Donetsk direction. This was reported to TASS by a representative of the law enforcement agencies of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).
"A couple of days ago, a Ukrainian fighter surrendered. I arrived, as they say, not empty-handed, but in a car that was loaded with MANPADS," said the agency interlocutor.
Maxim Tishchenko, who surrendered, turned out to be a fighter of the radar reconnaissance platoon of the anti-aircraft missile battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade, a native of the Lugansk People's Republic.
According to a representative of law enforcement agencies, about 20 MANPADS complexes were found in the back of the car on which a Ukrainian serviceman came to the positions of Russian forces.
Corruption in the prisoner's division
Tishchenko told TASS that the brigade commander sent 70% of the platoon to the rear, taking salary cards from the fighters in exchange.
"We have 30 people in the platoon, and there are 10. 20 people are considered escaped for us, but the division commander does not tell anyone about it because he has their salary cards. He covers them. That's how he withdraws their money. It's only in our platoon," Tishchenko said.
He specified that the salary of one serviceman is about 100 thousand hryvnias.
These claims, especially regarding the MANPADS were well documented? Have a link Orchid? I would think the Kremlin would be more than willing to openly provide such evidence to unequivocally substantiate the claim, including many photos, serial numbers, etc. A few folks in Congress and the press would be all over it like rabid dogs in minutes, but I hear nothing so far.
Relax. I do not create news.
Here is your link:
https://news.mail.ru/incident/57212950/?story=ukraine_conflict
Cases like this are reported every day.
I am amazed about this one that the name was mentioned.
Any yes…. I would not rely on the Congress and the press reaction as a reality testing….
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https://news.mail.ru/incident/57209400/
One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stopped a column of APU equipment in the Zaporozhye direction
The enemy armored vehicles were destroyed.
"One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stops an entire enemy company," the message reads.
Judging by the footage, the Russian military noticed the approach of a column of Ukrainian equipment consisting of tanks and armored vehicles. A Russian tank moved towards the column, which opened fire on enemy armored vehicles, forcing it to stop moving. Then Russian artillery hit tanks and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, destroying them.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates
Segments of the Russian pro-war ultranationalist information space appear to be coalescing around the Kremlin’s narrative effort to portray the Ukrainian counteroffensive as a failure, increasingly overstating Ukrainian losses and writing less about Russia's losses and challenges than they had been. Prominent Russian milbloggers have been increasingly presenting Ukrainian counteroffensive operations inaccurately as a series of failed Ukrainian assaults along the entire line of contact.[1] Russian milbloggers widely amplified footage on July 29 claiming that it showed a single Russian tank defeating an entire Ukrainian company with armored vehicles as if the event had occurred recently, but the footage is actually from June 7 and shows Russian artillery units striking the Ukrainian column.[2] Russian sources have previously recirculated old footage to support claims that Ukrainian forces are suffering significant armored vehicle losses, and the amplification of the footage on July 29 indicates that Russian sources are deliberately amplifying old footage to support the Kremlin narrative.[3]
Draw your own conclusions as to the veracity of RU milblogger claims.
Don’t tell me about my ability to draw conclusion, and I will not tell you how you feel or who you are attracted to.
Truly understand the spirit of the moment and what is this war is you need to listen how solders are commenting the moment in the actual video, not in press.
You do not see the forest behind the trees.
Let me explain you the meaning of the video in a plain language:
The West never learn any lessons, including WWII.
This video shows that no matter who is the leader on Russia, Stalin or Poo, RUSSIA ALWAYS WINS.
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And one can want to join NATO, it is the members that decide if they can.
And if they dont want to, you can always send money and cookies and overthrow the government, selecting a more western friendly government who would like to join NATO.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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https://news.mail.ru/incident/57209400/
One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stopped a column of APU equipment in the Zaporozhye direction
The enemy armored vehicles were destroyed.
"One tank of the Russian Armed Forces stops an entire enemy company," the message reads.
Judging by the footage, the Russian military noticed the approach of a column of Ukrainian equipment consisting of tanks and armored vehicles. A Russian tank moved towards the column, which opened fire on enemy armored vehicles, forcing it to stop moving. Then Russian artillery hit tanks and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, destroying them.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-updates
Segments of the Russian pro-war ultranationalist information space appear to be coalescing around the Kremlin’s narrative effort to portray the Ukrainian counteroffensive as a failure, increasingly overstating Ukrainian losses and writing less about Russia's losses and challenges than they had been. Prominent Russian milbloggers have been increasingly presenting Ukrainian counteroffensive operations inaccurately as a series of failed Ukrainian assaults along the entire line of contact.[1] Russian milbloggers widely amplified footage on July 29 claiming that it showed a single Russian tank defeating an entire Ukrainian company with armored vehicles as if the event had occurred recently, but the footage is actually from June 7 and shows Russian artillery units striking the Ukrainian column.[2] Russian sources have previously recirculated old footage to support claims that Ukrainian forces are suffering significant armored vehicle losses, and the amplification of the footage on July 29 indicates that Russian sources are deliberately amplifying old footage to support the Kremlin narrative.[3]
Draw your own conclusions as to the veracity of RU milblogger claims.
I have. And the claims are no more or less credible as the ISW's (The Institute for the Study of War) claims.
I, myself, rely on neither for my information. I have better sources. Hopefully, you can do better than ISW for your information.
Doesn't mean there's not some truth splattered about by both sources, but it's like panning for gold trying to find it.
I have mentioned ISW before, a Washington D.C. based "organization" funded mainly by defence contractors Raytheon and General Dynamics, so you know it's legit :P
The Board of Directors is a supremely odious collection of imperialists (Bill Kristol, David Patraeus, Gen.Jack Keene, for starters). Jesus, can you find 3 more hawkish, bloodthirsty clowns?
I'm sure all honest lads with no special interests.
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Don’t tell me about my ability to draw conclusion, and I will not tell you how you feel or who you are attracted to.
I wrote nothing about your ability to draw a conclusion, everyone can do that. I only presented the flip side of the one-tank coin, with what appears to be factual information contradicting the claim your source made. If, in your opinion, the post by the blogger describing the video as one tank taking out an entire column of Ukrainian vehicles is accurate, so be it.
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Don’t tell me about my ability to draw conclusion, and I will not tell you how you feel or who you are attracted to.
I wrote nothing about your ability to draw a conclusion, everyone can do that. I only presented the flip side of the one-tank coin, with what appears to be factual information contradicting the claim your source made. If, in your opinion, the post by the blogger describing the video as one tank taking out an entire column of Ukrainian vehicles is accurate, so be it.
Thank you.
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I have mentioned ISW before, a Washington D.C. based "organization" funded mainly by defence contractors Raytheon and General Dynamics, so you know it's legit :P
Shooting the messenger is an easy task. Shooting the facts is a different matter altogether.
Is the ISW claim that the video predated the 'one RU tank killed 'em all' milblog report, and instead shows RU artillery attacking the UA column correct or not?
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Don’t tell me about my ability to draw conclusion, and I will not tell you how you feel or who you are attracted to.
😱 why? Did someone mentioned the name Caitlyn Jenner?!?
But seriously, pay no mind to much of what BC say. His credibility is shot. He likely still believes Trump/Russian collusion is real. A true CNN by-product.
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Shooting the messenger is an easy task. Shooting the facts is a different matter altogether.
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Touché
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I have mentioned ISW before, a Washington D.C. based "organization" funded mainly by defence contractors Raytheon and General Dynamics, so you know it's legit :P
Shooting the messenger is an easy task. Shooting the facts is a different matter altogether.
Is the ISW claim that the video predated the 'one RU tank killed 'em all' milblog report, and instead shows RU artillery attacking the UA column correct or not?
ISW confirms there reporting with links to the reality. If the report is unsubstantiated it is so noted. My guess the reporting is better than the majority of the Russian Milbloggers who appear to be a bunch of dedka’s and babushka’s.Sometimes there is truth in there comments, but mostly it is parroting Russian propaganda.
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Is the ISW claim that the video predated the 'one RU tank killed 'em all' milblog report, and instead shows RU artillery attacking the UA column correct or not?
Regardless, the UA column was destroyed. thats the only true fact in this discussion it seems.
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Russia has not been using them. There is 0 evidence supporting it, despite claims from western papers.
What nonsense or pure bull shit. Early on in the war Russian use of cluster bombs was the subject of a debate in the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Heh, in the article is noted that the USA did sign the Dublin-2008 treaty against using cluster munitions. Looks like they lied again and do what they want in their own self-interest (or this case, ukraine's interest).
You mean like Russia lied by agreeing to respect Ukrainian territorial borders in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum?
B/B
And how the west lied to Russia about expanding nato eastwards?
If Russia wasn't prone to invading and genociding their neighbors, maybe they would have more friends.
B/B
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Russia expanded Nato by threaten the countries to its southwest. So, they joined Nato. Thank Putin for Nato's existence as it was quietly dying before his many invasions.
And yet, when the shoe is on the other foot (cuba) you nearly destroyed the whole country for daring to choose Russia over the USA.
And one can want to join NATO, it is the members that decide if they can.
The baltics were allowed to join no problem because they're not a threat to Russia. Georgia and Ukraine however, are a direct threat to national security if they join NATO so Russia must make sure they don't. This isn't about anything else.
As it turns out, Russia is not entitled to a veto under the Atlantic Charter. And, as has been made abundantly clear in recent years, Russia directly threatens the national security of both Georgia and Ukraine - who get to make their own decisions - and it is quite sensible for them to apply for NATO membership, given that that they have a bad neighbor with an itchy trigger finger.
B/B
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As it turns out, Russia is not entitled to a veto under the Atlantic Charter. And, as has been made abundantly clear in recent years, Russia directly threatens the national security of both Georgia and Ukraine - who get to make their own decisions - and it is quite sensible for them to apply for NATO membership, given that that they have a bad neighbor with an itchy trigger finger.
B/B
you're thinking only of the law. I'd say 100.000+ dead say Russia does get a veto and will enforce it. They lived side by side peacefully until suddenly Ukraine had a coup and now wants NATO membership. Its really not more complicated than that.
Try offering Taiwan a NATO membership and see what happens.
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Try offering Taiwan a NATO membership and see what happens.
Irrelevant.
To this day, the U.S. “one China” position stands: the United States recognizes the PRC as the sole legal government of China but only acknowledges the Chinese position that Taiwan is part of China. Thus, the United States maintains formal relations with the PRC and has unofficial relations with Taiwan. The “one China” policy has subsequently been reaffirmed by every new incoming U.S. administration. The existence of this understanding has enabled the preservation of stability in the Taiwan Strait, allowing both Taiwan and mainland China to pursue their extraordinary political and socioeconomic transitions in relative peace.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-us-one-china-policy-and-why-does-it-matter
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you're thinking only of the law. I'd say 100.000+ dead say Russia does get a veto and will enforce it. They lived side by side peacefully until suddenly Ukraine had a coup and now wants NATO membership. Its really not more complicated than that.
Chicken and egg argument. Ukrainian forces did not enter Russia, nor attempted to exert political change within Russia.
IMO, What happened in Ukraine was a domestic Ukrainian matter until Russia stepped in by supporting and arming separatists in Donetsk and L u h a n s k, further by annexing Crimea, and subsequently other areas.
Russia, of course, feared losing political influence over Ukraine.
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Sheesh. Some of you folks either have short term memory losses or simply rewrites historical fact to fit your intended narrative.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/03/29/ukraine-says-no-to-nato/
That was 2 years after Russo-Georgia war.
Regardless. Milk, spilled. Now it’s just a mindless mess.
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https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/03/29/ukraine-says-no-to-nato/
That was 2 years after Russo-Georgia war.
Interesting how time and events change perceptions.
https://www.ndi.org/publications/support-nato-rises-latest-ndi-ukraine-poll
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Just to keep recent history straight…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-russia-deal-special-report-idUSBRE9BI0DZ20131219
Oliynyk, who is Ukraine’s permanent representative for NATO, and others were furious. He told Reuters that when Ukraine turned to Europe’s officials for help, they “spat on us.”
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https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/03/29/ukraine-says-no-to-nato/
That was 2 years after Russo-Georgia war.
Interesting how time and events change perceptions.
https://www.ndi.org/publications/support-nato-rises-latest-ndi-ukraine-poll
The NDI based out of Massachusetts USA, I'm sure their poll was transparent, fair and without prejudice. :thumbsup:
Either way, let's not forget what this is all about and how Ukraine is split as a nation. I would be willing to wage many imaginary internet £'s and bet that the majority of folks in Crimea and the disputed regions of the East, would prefer to have closer ties with Russia. This 'Ukrainian's want' argument is just silly and completely unrealistic.
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Russia expanded Nato by threaten the countries to its southwest. So, they joined Nato. Thank Putin for Nato's existence as it was quietly dying before his many invasions.
And yet, when the shoe is on the other foot (cuba) you nearly destroyed the whole country for daring to choose Russia over the USA.
And one can want to join NATO, it is the members that decide if they can.
The baltics were allowed to join no problem because they're not a threat to Russia. Georgia and Ukraine however, are a direct threat to national security if they join NATO so Russia must make sure they don't. This isn't about anything else.
As it turns out, Russia is not entitled to a veto under the Atlantic Charter. And, as has been made abundantly clear in recent years, Russia directly threatens the national security of both Georgia and Ukraine - who get to make their own decisions - and it is quite sensible for them to apply for NATO membership, given that that they have a bad neighbor with an itchy trigger finger.
B/B
And it's abundantly clear that those in western power, who chose to ride into the east dressed as white knights looking to save the poor Ukrainians, knew that by doing so it would start a huge conflict. Russia may not be entitled to anything but what happened was reckless and pre planned. They talk about peace, democracy and freedom but revel in war when the mask slips.
If a car is heading towards you in the wrong lane, you dont just accelerate into the head on collision because they're in the wrong, unless you're looking for an accident.
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Some folks on here wonder why those who question the western narrative, do so but it's all really simple. Rinse and repeat.
I watched Killing Gaddafi on Prime over the weekend, it was a decent watch and serves as a good reminder, as to how we operate in the west. It's why some of us prefer to question the situation rather than listen to our leaders and follow.
In Libya, the west wanted rid of Gaddafi and following a period of US meddling, protests and violent demonstrations kicked off. Then followed the organised disinformation campaign by our governments and the chosen opposition and without hesitation, the media reported all the unfounded allegations as if it were the truth.
Gadaffi was accused of imminently starting genocide on the scale of Rwanda and Srebrenica, accusation of mass rape (all found to be lies by amnesty international) and soldiers being supplied with viagra and hordes of mercenaries killing innocent demonstrators indiscriminately. Years after the event, government reports show that this was all made up fantasy and anything that was real, had been exaggerated exponentially. All forgotten about and buried similar to Iraq and the other messes.
We often talk about NATO being a defensive pact and questions asked about why Putin would see them as a threat. This documentary covers that bit off quite well. The R2P or Responsibility to Protect provides it with an opportunity for military intervention. Not for power or oil but an ethical intervention. The US and NATO will begin with sanctions, demonising the next target followed by disinformation and then use of force. And we wonder why African countries, Russia, China etc all dont trust NATO and the west?
What threat to NATO members was Gaddafi? It was simply an ideological attack using western power to peruse an agenda.
Now yes, the Russia Ukraine situation isn't identical and yes Russian forces have attacked Ukraine but the precursor is exactly the same and we're talking about the exact same Western Governments and media organisations delivering a slick propaganda campaign to justify funding war and promoting western friendly regime change that weakens our appointed enemy. In Libya we walked away and left them to rot following Gadaffi's death, what's to say the same doesn't happen with Ukraine, if the West ever got its way.
Worryingly it's a similar Democrat party in office using the same violence around the globe to flex their muscle. It's what they do.
I really encourage you guys to watch the documentary if you have free time and refreshingly, it exposes our weakness and hypocrisy in the west. This is exactly why I dont trust anything falling out of the mouths of government officials and then being repeated by the legacy media.
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you're thinking only of the law. I'd say 100.000+ dead say Russia does get a veto and will enforce it. They lived side by side peacefully until suddenly Ukraine had a coup and now wants NATO membership. Its really not more complicated than that.
Chicken and egg argument. Ukrainian forces did not enter Russia, nor attempted to exert political change within Russia.
IMO, What happened in Ukraine was a domestic Ukrainian matter until Russia stepped in by supporting and arming separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk Europe/USA stepped in by rigging a coup and dancing on Maidan supported by only a few in Kiev itself, further by annexing Crimea, and subsequently other areas. As a result the areas of Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea broke away from Ukraine and all 3 areas held a referendum joining Russia.
Russia Europe, of course, feared losing political influence over Ukraine.
FTFY.
And as a final note, Russia told Donetsk/Lugansk for over 8 years to work it out with Ukraine or stay independent. They were not allowed to join Russia.
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What threat to NATO members was Gaddafi? It was simply an ideological attack using western power to peruse an agenda.
I haven't watched the documentary. It would appear much was left out, intentionally would be my guess. But, the reason Gaddafi had to go was because he was a member of OPEC and he started selling Libyan oil in gold dinars rather than the U.S. dollar. A threat to the House of Rothschild. Basically doing then what the BRICS nations are doing now. If Gaddafi could have convinced OPEC to only trade in gold dinars (many think he was well on his way to doing so) The central banks would have been collapsing years ago rather than the controlled collapse we're seeing today
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This is an example of just how fake a video can be. I put it here because there is so much fake everything out there. This is America got talent but wait until you see what they do on stage with a fake video.
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https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/03/29/ukraine-says-no-to-nato/
That was 2 years after Russo-Georgia war.
Interesting how time and events change perceptions.
https://www.ndi.org/publications/support-nato-rises-latest-ndi-ukraine-poll
The NDI based out of Massachusetts USA, I'm sure their poll was transparent, fair and without prejudice. :thumbsup:
Either way, let's not forget what this is all about and how Ukraine is split as a nation. I would be willing to wage many imaginary internet £'s and bet that the majority of folks in Crimea and the disputed regions of the East, would prefer to have closer ties with Russia. This 'Ukrainian's want' argument is just silly and completely unrealistic.
Ahh, taking the easy way and shooting the messenger again. Maybe post some more recent polls from another reputable source?
How split is Ukraine? More or less than before Putin's invasion?
Of course, there is always a minority in just about any country that wants to secede, even in the US, i.e. Texas.
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Some folks on here wonder why those who question the western narrative, do so but it's all really simple. Rinse and repeat.
I watched Killing Gaddafi on Prime over the weekend, it was a decent watch and serves as a good reminder, as to how we operate in the west. It's why some of us prefer to question the situation rather than listen to our leaders and follow.
In Libya, the west wanted rid of Gaddafi and following a period of US meddling, protests and violent demonstrations kicked off. Then followed the organised disinformation campaign by our governments and the chosen opposition and without hesitation, the media reported all the unfounded allegations as if it were the truth.
Gadaffi was accused of imminently starting genocide on the scale of Rwanda and Srebrenica, accusation of mass rape (all found to be lies by amnesty international) and soldiers being supplied with viagra and hordes of mercenaries killing innocent demonstrators indiscriminately. Years after the event, government reports show that this was all made up fantasy and anything that was real, had been exaggerated exponentially. All forgotten about and buried similar to Iraq and the other messes.
We often talk about NATO being a defensive pact and questions asked about why Putin would see them as a threat. This documentary covers that bit off quite well. The R2P or Responsibility to Protect provides it with an opportunity for military intervention. Not for power or oil but an ethical intervention. The US and NATO will begin with sanctions, demonising the next target followed by disinformation and then use of force. And we wonder why African countries, Russia, China etc all dont trust NATO and the west?
What threat to NATO members was Gaddafi? It was simply an ideological attack using western power to peruse an agenda.
Now yes, the Russia Ukraine situation isn't identical and yes Russian forces have attacked Ukraine but the precursor is exactly the same and we're talking about the exact same Western Governments and media organisations delivering a slick propaganda campaign to justify funding war and promoting western friendly regime change that weakens our appointed enemy. In Libya we walked away and left them to rot following Gadaffi's death, what's to say the same doesn't happen with Ukraine, if the West ever got its way.
Worryingly it's a similar Democrat party in office using the same violence around the globe to flex their muscle. It's what they do.
I really encourage you guys to watch the documentary if you have free time and refreshingly, it exposes our weakness and hypocrisy in the west. This is exactly why I dont trust anything falling out of the mouths of government officials and then being repeated by the legacy media.
Libya's state, and now Ukraine, is similar to what happened in the Balkans in many ways. The west, notably my country, armed the KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army), previously classified as a terrorist organization by who else? the US. KLA then started attacking the Serbian authorities and citizens which then started the unrest and conflict in the region.
What they fed us was that there's indiscriminate genocide being committed by the Serbs. The US, under yet another Democrat administration in Clinton, made this a NATO 'offensive' and the rest is history.
The cover-up to the fate of Serbs in Albania and Kosovo after the war is appalling. The real 'Butcher of the Balkans isn't Milosevic. It's Clinton. Just as Obama is in the Middle-East and Africa - and now, directly or otherwise, Ukraine.
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you're thinking only of the law. I'd say 100.000+ dead say Russia does get a veto and will enforce it. They lived side by side peacefully until suddenly Ukraine had a coup and now wants NATO membership. Its really not more complicated than that.
Chicken and egg argument. Ukrainian forces did not enter Russia, nor attempted to exert political change within Russia.
IMO, What happened in Ukraine was a domestic Ukrainian matter until Russia stepped in by supporting and arming separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk Europe/USA stepped in by rigging a coup and dancing on Maidan supported by only a few in Kiev itself, further by annexing Crimea, and subsequently other areas. As a result the areas of Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea broke away from Ukraine and all 3 areas held a referendum joining Russia.
Russia Europe, of course, feared losing political influence over Ukraine.
FTFY.
And as a final note, Russia told Donetsk/Lugansk for over 8 years to work it out with Ukraine or stay independent. They were not allowed to join Russia.
Markje,
You digress.
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-about-the-current-russia-ukraine-conflict-seven-myths-debunked/
Of course, you will shoot the messenger, but maybe try testing the facts instead.
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
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https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/03/29/ukraine-says-no-to-nato/
That was 2 years after Russo-Georgia war.
Interesting how time and events change perceptions.
https://www.ndi.org/publications/support-nato-rises-latest-ndi-ukraine-poll
The NDI based out of Massachusetts USA, I'm sure their poll was transparent, fair and without prejudice. :thumbsup:
Either way, let's not forget what this is all about and how Ukraine is split as a nation. I would be willing to wage many imaginary internet £'s and bet that the majority of folks in Crimea and the disputed regions of the East, would prefer to have closer ties with Russia. This 'Ukrainian's want' argument is just silly and completely unrealistic.
Ahh, taking the easy way and shooting the messenger again. Maybe post some more recent polls from another reputable source?
How split is Ukraine? More or less than before Putin's invasion?
Of course, there is always a minority in just about any country that wants to secede, even in the US, i.e. Texas.
Ah arguing over the colour of shite and asking questions to things already answered, yet again. That'll be BC.
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
Why start a book from the centre pages?
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What threat to NATO members was Gaddafi? It was simply an ideological attack using western power to peruse an agenda.
I haven't watched the documentary. It would appear much was left out, intentionally would be my guess. But, the reason Gaddafi had to go was because he was a member of OPEC and he started selling Libyan oil in gold dinars rather than the U.S. dollar. A threat to the House of Rothschild. Basically doing then what the BRICS nations are doing now. If Gaddafi could have convinced OPEC to only trade in gold dinars (many think he was well on his way to doing so) The central banks would have been collapsing years ago rather than the controlled collapse we're seeing today
I had been waiting myself, to see if they discussed this very important issue. They didn't and the starting point was just the wests appetite to remove Gaddafi from power.
I dont think they avoided the issue but rather focused on the key players and the blue print used to justify the force. Clinton, Obama and co were made to look like the crooks they are.
Fund an uprising to oppose the ruling authority and equip them to start something news worthy. Follow that up with an organised campaign of disinformation and propaganda and finally use force under the guise of ethical intervention. The double standards of the whole thing is appalling.
Like Libya, I doubt Ukraine would be in the position they are today, if the US hadn't meddled and then selected a new government in 2014. It wasn't the start but things derailed quickly from that point onwards.
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This is an example of just how fake a video can be. I put it here because there is so much fake everything out there. This is America got talent but wait until you see what they do on stage with a fake video.
What is it that you're trying to tell us Tex other than, anything you disagree with is fake news?
Are you saying that the Amazon documentary covering the events in Libya, which have now been pulled apart and official government investigations have pointed to the wrong doings following Iraq, is just fake news?
Has AI has altered the world and we're now living in the Matrix? Hilary Clinton isn't really a horrible c@nt, its all made up?
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Of course, you will shoot the messenger, but maybe try testing the facts instead.
Based on your positions these recent years, you've more than displayed you haven't the slightest clue what 'fact' is if it fell on your head.
CNN had long been irrelevant, BC.
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Some folks on here wonder why those who question the western narrative, do so but it's all really simple. Rinse and repeat.
I watched Killing Gaddafi on Prime over the weekend, it was a decent watch and serves as a good reminder, as to how we operate in the west. It's why some of us prefer to question the situation rather than listen to our leaders and follow.
In Libya, the west wanted rid of Gaddafi and following a period of US meddling, protests and violent demonstrations kicked off. Then followed the organised disinformation campaign by our governments and the chosen opposition and without hesitation, the media reported all the unfounded allegations as if it were the truth.
Gadaffi was accused of imminently starting genocide on the scale of Rwanda and Srebrenica, accusation of mass rape (all found to be lies by amnesty international) and soldiers being supplied with viagra and hordes of mercenaries killing innocent demonstrators indiscriminately. Years after the event, government reports show that this was all made up fantasy and anything that was real, had been exaggerated exponentially. All forgotten about and buried similar to Iraq and the other messes.
We often talk about NATO being a defensive pact and questions asked about why Putin would see them as a threat. This documentary covers that bit off quite well. The R2P or Responsibility to Protect provides it with an opportunity for military intervention. Not for power or oil but an ethical intervention. The US and NATO will begin with sanctions, demonising the next target followed by disinformation and then use of force. And we wonder why African countries, Russia, China etc all dont trust NATO and the west?
What threat to NATO members was Gaddafi? It was simply an ideological attack using western power to peruse an agenda.
Now yes, the Russia Ukraine situation isn't identical and yes Russian forces have attacked Ukraine but the precursor is exactly the same and we're talking about the exact same Western Governments and media organisations delivering a slick propaganda campaign to justify funding war and promoting western friendly regime change that weakens our appointed enemy. In Libya we walked away and left them to rot following Gadaffi's death, what's to say the same doesn't happen with Ukraine, if the West ever got its way.
Worryingly it's a similar Democrat party in office using the same violence around the globe to flex their muscle. It's what they do.
I really encourage you guys to watch the documentary if you have free time and refreshingly, it exposes our weakness and hypocrisy in the west. This is exactly why I dont trust anything falling out of the mouths of government officials and then being repeated by the legacy media.
Libya's state, and now Ukraine, is similar to what happened in the Balkans in many ways. The west, notably my country, armed the KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army), previously classified as a terrorist organization by who else? the US. KLA then started attacking the Serbian authorities and citizens which then started the unrest and conflict in the region.
What they fed us was that there's indiscriminate genocide being committed by the Serbs. The US, under yet another Democrat administration in Clinton, made this a NATO 'offensive' and the rest is history.
The cover-up to the fate of Serbs in Albania and Kosovo after the war is appalling. The real 'Butcher of the Balkans isn't Milosevic. It's Clinton. Just as Obama is in the Middle-East and Africa - and now, directly or otherwise, Ukraine.
Agreed.
There's a part in the documentary where US intel fed to the media, told the world how Gadaffi was committing genocide and they found mass graves. After the dust settled and Gadaffi was dead, they investigated the areas picked out by satellite and it was just a normal cemetery for people dying naturally.
The viagra powered Gadaffi troops raping women and children all over the country story hit the headlines but amnesty international completely debunked the lies. And so on......it's the blue print they use and all of a sudden,. this defensive pact can use force and go on the offensive.
So you need ask, do we believe what we're being told this time, from the same people?
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I watched and frankly I’m more surprised to see it’s still allowed to be shown. The whole deception was orchestrated by western media just as we see they do in this current conflict. It also mentioned Italy being on the forefront of the intervention because Italy is actually the chief importer of Libyan oil prior to the regime change.
What it didn’t show however was the fact the rebels Qaddafi was attempting to rid of was actually a CIA-led operative (which is darkly ironic if you consider what happened with the US embassy in Benghazi sometime later). It was initiated when Qaddafi declared to nationalize its oil and as FP mentioned, have the transactions be in dinars.
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
Why start a book from the centre pages?
For anyone who wants to start from the beginning:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9476/CBP-9476.pdf
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
Why start a book from the centre pages?
This page is around where the Russian invaders had to flee the outskirts of Kharkov?
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
Why start a book from the centre pages?
This page is around where the Russian invaders had to flee the outskirts of Kharkov?
If To Kill a Mockingbird begins at Toms trial them I suppose you're right Av.
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
Why start a book from the centre pages?
For anyone who wants to start from the beginning:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9476/CBP-9476.pdf
Yes let's pretend that's what happened BC.
The issue I have with your discussion technique is that you use media and government sources as fact and claim that this can be the only truth.
We've just spoken about the Iraq and Libyan situation where both government and media have been proven to lie in order to implement their plans and only years later, does the truth come out.
I predict that many years from now, we'll finally get the truth after the dust has settled and we'll see exactly how this was manipulated by the west. It won't let Russia off the hook for all the killing that followed but we'll all know that they were played into it.
So stop with the passive aggressive BS and media links because this is part of the dance. You can't use any of that as a credible source today. Predictably you'll complain and protest but consider the timeline and compare it to government facts for Libya and Iraq at the time of the event and how that's all been proved as lies years later, when administrations change and protagonists die or retire.
We're also talking about essentially the same US administration doing the work behind the scenes both in 2014 and today. Just try BC, try to see the big picture and consider an alternative away from CNN and The Guardian because they were both tools back in 2011 also.
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More cracks appearing between the west and Ukraine, with signs that patience is wearing thin and the ridiculous volume of money and weapons being sent to Ukraine, is terminable. Russia know this hence the fortifying of lands they've recovered rather than continuing an assault. They'll be prepared to sit it out and continue to smash the Ukrainian armed forces until the well runs dry.
If the story plays out as expected, then we'll see the true intentions of the US and NATO. Is this actually about Ukraine or Russia?
Polish ambassador called in by Ukraine over aide's comments.
Poland's ambassador to Kiev has been called in by Ukraine's foreign ministry over "unacceptable" comments made by a Polish presidential adviser.
Bartosz Cichocki was requested for a meeting after Marcin Przydacz said Ukraine "should start appreciating" the role Poland has played in supporting Kiev.
"During the meeting, it was emphasised that statements about the alleged ungratefulness of Ukrainians for Poland's help are untrue and unacceptable," foreign ministry spokesperson Oleh Nikolenko said.
Poland has sent billions of pounds of assistance to Ukraine since the start of the war.
The ambassador's comments echo a warning from Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, last month that Ukraine must show "gratitude" to its allies to maintain long-term Western public and political support. We are not Amazon.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-possible-reason-putin-is-letting-wagner-boss-sit-easy-attacks-near-nato-border-worrying-putin-to-visit-china-12541713
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Some one remind me who invaded who?
Why start a book from the centre pages?
For anyone who wants to start from the beginning:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9476/CBP-9476.pdf
Yes let's pretend that's what happened BC.
The issue I have with your discussion technique is that you use media and government sources as fact and claim that this can be the only truth.
We've just spoken about the Iraq and Libyan situation where both government and media have been proven to lie in order to implement their plans and only years later, does the truth come out.
I predict that many years from now, we'll finally get the truth after the dust has settled and we'll see exactly how this was manipulated by the west. It won't let Russia off the hook for all the killing that followed but we'll all know that they were played into it.
So stop with the passive aggressive BS and media links because this is part of the dance. You can't use any of that as a credible source today. Predictably you'll complain and protest but consider the timeline and compare it to government facts for Libya and Iraq at the time of the event and how that's all been proved as lies years later, when administrations change and protagonists die or retire.
We're also talking about essentially the same US administration doing the work behind the scenes both in 2014 and today. Just try BC, try to see the big picture and consider an alternative away from CNN and The Guardian because they were both tools back in 2011 also.
Thanks for your post, rosco.
I don't find anything passive/aggressive at all when attempting to establish a baseline for discussions. Makes little sense to discuss anything if we can't even agree on the bare minimum. I can understand why some may not wish to work with a common set of agreed-upon facts or events, as such requires one to think. Much easier to blast an unsupported opinion (usually copy and pasted or paraphrased from somewhere on the net)
Ditto with asking a pointed question or posting a thought-provoking link showing contrary information.
I'm not here to change anyone's mind or opinion, but I do challenge them if they are not substantiated. If I challenge, I also do the research by checking other, even contrary sources. I also separate simple opinions from assertions of fact. If an article says X, I check other sources as well to confirm as best as possible.
If I post information that counters an expressed opinion or statement of fact, feel free to counter with more substantive information. I'm always open to new information. But if someone comes back with a simple "oh.. you can't trust this source, or that source", or even more simple "You can't use any of that as a credible source today.", is meaningless. Show me something that is better substantiated and logical, and I won't have a problem accepting it until new information comes about. I do lean towards media and other sources that provide links to substantiate their assertions vs. others that do not or cannot.
For example, the timeline link I posted. Much of the information contained has links to external sources.
My 'sources' are, of course, anything that can be found on the internet. Right, Left, this or that. In addition, my personal, albeit more limited information from human sources. Although some claim to have found 'truth' somewhere else, it's mostly anecdotal.
As far as Iraq is concerned, I didn't buy it either and was against the US and others taking action there from the beginning. My opinion was based on UN inspections that were generally being disregarded by governments all over the place when they were the only boots on the ground.
With Libya, I can't recall having taken a particular stance other than the West (again) overestimating the draw of democracy in places where a large majority of the population does not yet have the capability of even understanding what they are getting into. I did search my posts here and 'there' and will be happy to send you links if you want them. Just pm me as I doubt they will appear here. You can search 'there' as well. I also watched the documentary and do find there are some decent opinions expressed, along with some facts that support the position that many in the West wanted Gaddafi gone. Bad actors have a tendency to dig their own holes, and to a large extent, Gaddafi was no exception with his threats and disdain of other leaders and international organizations.
With Ukraine, one can say that the interests of the West and Russia are in play. Yes, the West supported efforts for a true(r) form of democracy, whilst Russia was entrenched in UA politics in a very big way, with UA for a long period of time considered their de facto puppet. I spent a decent time in Kramatorsk years ago, before 2014 with a young group of ethnically diverse Ukrainians in a predominately Russian-speaking city. I also traveled through Donetsk. They did, and still, consider themselves Ukrainian, European, and not Russian. My wife is also Russian, so I get that side of the story as well. I'm also helping a UA family of mixed RU/UA ethnicity that lived in the Eastern area. I'm not saying that this makes my stance authoritative, but at least I can say it is somewhat informed, which may be more than others here on both sides of the discourse.
I do believe the West is acting correctly by supporting a sovereign nation, Ukraine, to defend itself against an armed force that stepped across its border. We'll have to see how far RU wishes to escalate before taking further, more destructive steps.
Whether you engage or not when I post is your choice. If you or others do, it would be great if you do so in a substantive manner.
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More cracks appearing between the west and Ukraine, with signs that patience is wearing thin and the ridiculous volume of money and weapons being sent to Ukraine, is terminable. Russia know this hence the fortifying of lands they've recovered rather than continuing an assault. They'll be prepared to sit it out and continue to smash the Ukrainian armed forces until the well runs dry.
If the story plays out as expected, then we'll see the true intentions of the US and NATO. Is this actually about Ukraine or Russia?
Polish ambassador called in by Ukraine over aide's comments.
Poland's ambassador to Kiev has been called in by Ukraine's foreign ministry over "unacceptable" comments made by a Polish presidential adviser.
Bartosz Cichocki was requested for a meeting after Marcin Przydacz said Ukraine "should start appreciating" the role Poland has played in supporting Kiev.
"During the meeting, it was emphasised that statements about the alleged ungratefulness of Ukrainians for Poland's help are untrue and unacceptable," foreign ministry spokesperson Oleh Nikolenko said.
Poland has sent billions of pounds of assistance to Ukraine since the start of the war.
The ambassador's comments echo a warning from Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, last month that Ukraine must show "gratitude" to its allies to maintain long-term Western public and political support. We are not Amazon.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-possible-reason-putin-is-letting-wagner-boss-sit-easy-attacks-near-nato-border-worrying-putin-to-visit-china-12541713
A statement responding to this event:
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-summons-polish-ambassador-bartosz-cichocki-Kiev-over-unacceptable-comments/
Note that the article links a facebook post by Andrii Sybiha deputy head of the Ukrainian President’s Office.
https://www.facebook.com/andrij.sybiha/posts/pfbid024H15F12ey1kvTmt4tTHPgQSJYBsyvtcv6SJ4W3U7aRfgk51t9vVWVoP61PRN9M7Ml
Przydacz also said Ukraine had received a lot of support from Poland and it should “start appreciating the role Poland has played for Ukraine in recent months and years.”
“Ukraine should start appreciating what Poland is doing for it,” he said.
In response, the deputy head of the Ukrainian President’s Office, Andrii Sybiha, said: “We categorically reject the attempts by some Polish politicians to impose on Polish society the baseless idea that Ukraine does not appreciate the help from Poland,” adding that Ukraine thanks Poland and its allies every day.
“It is Ukrainians who are protecting the values and security of our region, and they also do it in the interests of Poland and the entire free world,” Sybiha added, saying that supporting Ukraine is not charity, but an investment.
I suspect that it is in Poland's interest not to have Russia as a neighbor. What one Polish politician says may not carry as much weight as your post implies.
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Three small things stood out to me in your post, BC.
But if someone comes back with a simple "oh.. you can't trust this source, or that source", or even more simple "You can't use any of that as a credible source today.", is meaningless
I disagree with this. Most MSM sites and newspapers will parrot the government's narrative dutifully. They are even encouraged to use the same terminology. "Unprovoked invasion" and "full-scale invasion" are the two that spring to mind. (Commentary on "unprovoked" >here< (https://consortiumnews.com/2023/01/08/caitlin-johnstone-unprovoked/)) When looking at publications like the Guardian, it is full of lefty, handwringing sycophants to whom Zelensky is a god and they routinely tell lies. Impartial they are certainly not.
With Ukraine, one can say that the interests of the West and Russia are in play. Yes, the West supported efforts for a true(r) form of democracy, whilst Russia was entrenched in UA politics in a very big way, with UA for a long period of time considered their de facto puppet.
Russia was entrenched in Ukrainian politics with good reason. Shared history, neighbours, interests in Crimea, many Russian people, etc. That didn't make them a puppet, it made them a close neighbour with common interests. Puppetry only came in when the US decided to become entrenched in Ukraine and its politics culminating in the 2014 coup they funded. The US had no reason to be "entrenched", unlike Russia.
I do believe the West is acting correctly by supporting a sovereign nation, Ukraine, to defend itself against an armed force that stepped across its border.
With reference to the foregoing, I'd suggest Ukraine ceased to be a sovereign nation once the US took de facto control in the 2014 coup. So what the West is actually doing is supporting a US proxy war against Russia. And let's not forget, if Zelensky had done anything at all he was voted in to do, or honoured the Minsk Agreement, or declared neutrality when asked to do so, or stopped the killing in Donbass, Ukraine wouldn't need to defend itself because there would be no SMO. It's a conflict the US planned, funded, and dragged everyone else into hoping to save the dollar and destabilise Russia at the same time. Now none of their objectives are coming to pass, one can almost taste the desperation. The US needs another war to lose, and they hope to provoke Russia into starting it so they have plausible deniability.
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https://consortiumnews.com/2023/01/08/caitlin-johnstone-unprovoked/
A really good article Manny and one many here should read if they have an opinion on the conflict.
Tex, fancy a read because I'd love to hear your thoughts? Let me guess.....Russian propaganda?
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Three small things stood out to me in your post, BC.
But if someone comes back with a simple "oh.. you can't trust this source, or that source", or even more simple "You can't use any of that as a credible source today.", is meaningless
I disagree with this. Most MSM sites and newspapers will parrot the government's narrative dutifully. They are even encouraged to use the same terminology. "Unprovoked invasion" and "full-scale invasion" are the two that spring to mind. (Commentary on "unprovoked" >here< (https://consortiumnews.com/2023/01/08/caitlin-johnstone-unprovoked/)) When looking at publications like the Guardian, it is full of lefty, handwringing sycophants to whom Zelensky is a god and they routinely tell lies. Impartial they are certainly not.
With Ukraine, one can say that the interests of the West and Russia are in play. Yes, the West supported efforts for a true(r) form of democracy, whilst Russia was entrenched in UA politics in a very big way, with UA for a long period of time considered their de facto puppet.
Russia was entrenched in Ukrainian politics with good reason. Shared history, neighbours, interests in Crimea, many Russian people, etc. That didn't make them a puppet, it made them a close neighbour with common interests. Puppetry only came in when the US decided to become entrenched in Ukraine and its politics culminating in the 2014 coup they funded. The US had no reason to be "entrenched", unlike Russia.
I do believe the West is acting correctly by supporting a sovereign nation, Ukraine, to defend itself against an armed force that stepped across its border.
With reference to the foregoing, I'd suggest Ukraine ceased to be a sovereign nation once the US took de facto control in the 2014 coup. So what the West is actually doing is supporting a US proxy war against Russia. And let's not forget, if Zelensky had done anything at all he was voted in to do, or honoured the Minsk Agreement, or declared neutrality when asked to do so, or stopped the killing in Donbass, Ukraine wouldn't need to defend itself because there would be no SMO. It's a conflict the US planned, funded, and dragged everyone else into hoping to save the dollar and destabilise Russia at the same time. Now none of their objectives are coming to pass, one can almost taste the desperation. The US needs another war to lose, and they hope to provoke Russia into starting it so they have plausible deniability.
Your opinion is noted Manny, thanks. I'll check out the link you posted.
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I did take a look at the article Manny. It is an opinion based on many opinions. Much like discussions here, I found little in the way of placing the few facts that are referred to in context or timeline, with much just lumped together to form the picture the author desired.
Most of the links in the article lead directly to the opinions of others, who in turn link to other opinions. Yes, I did check.
So, at its core, mostly opinions of opinions that are based on other opinions.
I'm not simply discounting the information presented by the author, but instead stating that the resulting work remains an opinion and that it should be taken as such.
I'd be happy to entertain discussion regarding any facts presented.
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Well, here's a fact: put "unprovoked invasion of Ukraine" into Google and I see 188000 results (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22unprovoked+invasion+of+ukraine%22&ei=zcbLZLeyBOWXhbIPtLmeyAg&ved=0ahUKEwj3zNqR5sCAAxXlS0EAHbScB4kQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=%22unprovoked+invasion+of+ukraine%22&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiICJ1bnByb3Zva2VkIGludmFzaW9uIG9mIHVrcmFpbmUiMgYQABgWGB4yCBAAGIoFGIYDMggQABiKBRiGAzIIEAAYigUYhgNI8B1Q6QpY8hhwAXgBkAEAmAFxoAFxqgEDMC4xuAEDyAEA-AEBwgIKEAAYRxjWBBiwA-IDBBgAIEGIBgGQBgg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp).
Put "unprovoked invasion of Iraq" in there, I get 6440 results (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22unprovoked+invasion+of+Iraq%22&ei=1cbLZLnGG5CehbIP_pGpkA4&ved=0ahUKEwj5hNqV5sCAAxUQT0EAHf5ICuIQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=%22unprovoked+invasion+of+Iraq%22&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiHSJ1bnByb3Zva2VkIGludmFzaW9uIG9mIElyYXEiMgQQABgeMggQABiKBRiGAzIIEAAYigUYhgMyCBAAGIoFGIYDMggQABiKBRiGAzIIEAAYigUYhgNI7jBQ8hRYxyxwAXgBkAEAmAF9oAGWCaoBAzMuOLgBA8gBAPgBAcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAgYQABgHGB7CAgUQABiABOIDBBgAIEGIBgGQBgg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp).
Try "unprovoked invasion of Yugoslavia" - 2 results.
Try the other term I mentioned: "Russia's full-scale invasion" - 357000 results
How about "US full-scale invasion" - 10 results.
Is that factual enough to confirm Caitlin's point in her article?
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Is that factual enough to confirm Caitlin's point in her article?
Have you considered growth of the internet over the last 20 years?
https://www.broadbandsearch.net/blog/internet-statistics
From the year 2000 to 2023, the usage of the internet increased by 1,355%.
Drop the quotes:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c1b4thcP/Screenshot-2023-08-03-at-20-09-17.jpg)
Also, the count at the top includes many duplicates. Try using the number of Google result pages showing relevant results instead.
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You obviously dont know how search engines work. Putting a term in quotes means you search for the exact term. Which is exactly what we were discussing. Not doing, simply finds the three words anywhere in the result.
Nothing to do with internet usage, that's just a deflection. The US invades country after country, and is perpetually at war. 2 results? Come now. Even you can see there are unseen hands here manipulating what you read in an Orwellian manner. Even you can see that the terms I described are in constant usage in the media. Do you suppose that is a coincidence, BC?
If you continue to deny the facts I gave you, I put it to you that you are being disingenuous.
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You obviously dont know how search engines work. Putting a term in quotes means you search for the exact term. Which is exactly what we were discussing. Not doing, simply finds the three words anywhere in the result.
Nothing to do with internet usage, that's just a deflection. The US invades country after country, and is perpetually at war. 2 results? Come now. Even you can see there are unseen hands here manipulating what you read in an Orwellian manner. Even you can see that the terms I described are in constant usage in the media. Do you suppose that is a coincidence, BC?
If you continue to deny the facts I gave you, I put it to you that you are being disingenuous.
I agree with you on the correct use of search engines.
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While it is clear from the usage and context of many articles, even those which are apparently in opposition to the actions of the collective west thatbthe use of the negative term is a requirement for publication, there's another aspect to consider.
A huge proportion of both written and visual media is based on press releases. When this happens, editorial staff simply rewrite the content of the release. Indeed, a good press release writer will format their copy in such a way that this is made easy.
If the copywriter wants to see a particular form of words all that is necessary is to use them in the copy. The person writing the final version will almost certainly not be a subject matter expert. This magnifies the usage of the term because the writer of the final article will be at pains to write accurately so the press release becomes the authority and a proxy for subject matter expertise. After all, the person using the press release probably has to make several articles every hour. They use copy/paste extensively with little or no original insight.
The above is one reason why it is now quite common to see multiple outlets producing almost identical headlines and body copy,sometimes to an extreme degree.
The use of AI is making the effect even more pronounced. As one who writes press releases this is rather cool. Overall, it reduces variability in the media we consume,and that's a bad thing.
Try using AI to rewrite a piece of text several times and you'll get the point! At least when humans in different media outlets rewrite copy there is an inbuilt human-based variability. That's not the case with the large AI tools that most writers, copywriters and editors use. To say nothing of the inbuilt biases that plague all AI tools.
This issue of required bias is going nowhere and will increase.
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You obviously dont know how search engines work. Putting a term in quotes means you search for the exact term. Which is exactly what we were discussing. Not doing, simply finds the three words anywhere in the result.
Nothing to do with internet usage, that's just a deflection. The US invades country after country, and is perpetually at war. 2 results? Come now. Even you can see there are unseen hands here manipulating what you read in an Orwellian manner. Even you can see that the terms I described are in constant usage in the media. Do you suppose that is a coincidence, BC?
If you continue to deny the facts I gave you, I put it to you that you are being disingenuous.
If 2003 were to repeat itself today, the number of articles would be a thousand times more than what they were back then.
https://i.postimg.cc/zv6GG1n7/Screenshot-2023-08-04-at-12-22-34.jpg
14 -15 pages of results are shown, excluding very similar ones. Replacing Iraq around 10 pages of results.
There is nothing disingenuous about what I posted. A figment of your imagination, I reckon.
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It seems that Ukraine has ‘lost’ some 600 tanks. An noteworthy point is 14 damaged or destroyed Leopard tanks. Is Western military aid so effective?
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html
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Video's all over socials this weekend, showing men in balaclavas and wearing military fatigues, jumping out of vans and kidnapping Ukrainian male civilians on the streets, for forced mobilisation. Guys shouting, women and children screaming and crying as their loved ones are dragged away to the front lines. Amnesty International and the UN are turning a blind eye because it suits the west in their proxy war against Russia.
When it comes down this, we've really hit a massive low point. Nobody else wants to be forced to die and the war appears to be coming to its final stages.
There's also a post from TheRealTruth62 who has been incredibly well informed during the conflict where he is in possession of a document addressed to the commanding officers of the 16th separate battalion of the national guard of Ukraine unit A3056 deployed in the city of Kherson.
It addresses the increased rate of desertion and evasion from mobilisation. It then lists a number of orders including opening fire at anyone refusing to stop at road blocks, inspecting everyone trying to leave, detain all males trying to leave and send them to the SBU, organising firing points at road blocks etc.
This is getting disgusting now and with Ukrainian running out of men, they're now dipping into the pool of civilians who simply dont want to fight. Meanwhile we keep sending weapons and tell Zelensky to keep going.
I suspect the fight is over when you get to this point.
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Those video's were already there 6 months ago, Rosco. My wife's seen them on Telegram plenty of times but back then it was all 'Russian propaganda'
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Those video's were already there 6 months ago, Rosco. My wife's seen them on Telegram plenty of times but back then it was all 'Russian propaganda'
I've no don't that's true mate but you can only image that its much worse than it was 6 months ago. Hundreds of thousands of poor buggers are dead or injured and the wealthy have fled the country or paid the bribe money.
It's now down to those who don't want to fight, the disabled (yes I've seen those video's) and the really young and really old. I just can't believe that western media and the human rights mob won't even acknowledge the sad reality of it all. Blokes being kidnapped by armed men and thrown into vans in front of their families and driven away.
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Referring to videos like these?
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Referring to videos like these?
I've seen one of those but there's dozens if not hundreds more doing the rounds.
What was funny and expected in equal measures, was the polished talk about a lack of training and isolated incidents. They must think we're zipped up the back!
And of course it's just the odd stray who didn't turn up for duty, nothing more move along. And the medical checks, is that why we can see a mother arguing with officials who have cleared her mentally retarded boy for conscription, whilst he bumbles around like he's had a lobotomy?
That post looks like a tidy up job, something only the sheep will nod their heads to before shouting Russian propaganda. There's a reason why officials are getting fat on backhanders, as they turn a blind eye to the well heeled. The big problem they have now is replacing the 40,000 soldiers lost in the last month alone and they're scraping the barrel.
Poor sods, the lot of them.
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Video's all over socials this weekend, showing men in balaclavas and wearing military fatigues, jumping out of vans and kidnapping Ukrainian male civilians on the streets, for forced mobilisation. Guys shouting, women and children screaming and crying as their loved ones are dragged away to the front lines. Amnesty International and the UN are turning a blind eye because it suits the west in their proxy war against Russia.
When it comes down this, we've really hit a massive low point. Nobody else wants to be forced to die and the war appears to be coming to its final stages.
There's also a post from TheRealTruth62 who has been incredibly well informed during the conflict where he is in possession of a document addressed to the commanding officers of the 16th separate battalion of the national guard of Ukraine unit A3056 deployed in the city of Kherson.
It addresses the increased rate of desertion and evasion from mobilisation. It then lists a number of orders including opening fire at anyone refusing to stop at road blocks, inspecting everyone trying to leave, detain all males trying to leave and send them to the SBU, organising firing points at road blocks etc.
This is getting disgusting now and with Ukrainian running out of men, they're now dipping into the pool of civilians who simply dont want to fight. Meanwhile we keep sending weapons and tell Zelensky to keep going.
I suspect the fight is over when you get to this point.
Wonder if you have any moral outrage regarding Putler starting this? Perhaps though you are a 21st N. Chamberlain?
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Video's all over socials this weekend, showing men in balaclavas and wearing military fatigues, jumping out of vans and kidnapping Ukrainian male civilians on the streets, for forced mobilisation. Guys shouting, women and children screaming and crying as their loved ones are dragged away to the front lines. Amnesty International and the UN are turning a blind eye because it suits the west in their proxy war against Russia.
When it comes down this, we've really hit a massive low point. Nobody else wants to be forced to die and the war appears to be coming to its final stages.
There's also a post from TheRealTruth62 who has been incredibly well informed during the conflict where he is in possession of a document addressed to the commanding officers of the 16th separate battalion of the national guard of Ukraine unit A3056 deployed in the city of Kherson.
It addresses the increased rate of desertion and evasion from mobilisation. It then lists a number of orders including opening fire at anyone refusing to stop at road blocks, inspecting everyone trying to leave, detain all males trying to leave and send them to the SBU, organising firing points at road blocks etc.
This is getting disgusting now and with Ukrainian running out of men, they're now dipping into the pool of civilians who simply dont want to fight. Meanwhile we keep sending weapons and tell Zelensky to keep going.
I suspect the fight is over when you get to this point.
Wonder if you have any moral outrage regarding Putler starting this? Perhaps though you are a 21st N. Chamberlain?
We're back to starting at the middle of the book analogy Av.
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I note the useful idiots continue to post, well, idiocy.
FTR, Ukrainian men are not dragged off the streets in Ukraine to serve in the army. Men who have received a draft notice and don't report on the day they are required to appear are tracked and arrested. Even if drafted, they won't necessarily be called to service immediately.
But, I suppose the truth isn't as "sexy" as an outright lie.
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I note the useful idiots continue to post, well, idiocy.
FTR, Ukrainian men are not dragged off the streets in Ukraine to serve in the army. Men who have received a draft notice and don't report on the day they are required to appear are tracked and arrested. Even if drafted, they won't necessarily be called to service immediately.
But, I suppose the truth isn't as "sexy" as an outright lie.
Lol so that makes it ok then. We gave them 'papers' and then kidnapped them when they decided they didn't want to die. Because that's how human rights and the civilised world works.
Ukrainian men were and are dragged off the street. Nobody is lying about that except you.
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It seems that Ukraine has ‘lost’ some 600 tanks. An noteworthy point is 14 damaged or destroyed Leopard tanks. Is Western military aid so effective?
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html
The aid was like usual. Too little too late to be as effective as it could have been. It gave the Russian too much time to prepare by setting up defense lines everywhere with mines. The west would not send fighter jets which would neutralize Russian helicopters and long-range missiles which is a major source of lost armor. Then blame Ukraine for the slow advance. But it should be noted. Russia had a force of 100 thousand with nine hundred tanks to attack northern Ukraine. No one hears about that attack because the attack was stopped cold after a small advance and has been for the most part pushed to near where they started. I wonder how much material and solders Russia lost in that mess?
Russia arrest men who do not show up for draft notices. Sometimes it is not pretty. I am sure no one wants to talk about that.
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This is hilarious :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
https://www.tiktok.com/@mzakharova/video/7261186136909925637
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Just listen to Douglas Macgregor, who has experience instead all the nonsese you post. Ukraine is turning into a Grave Yar.
https://www.youtube.com/live/9vf7Tt5KVKc?app=desktop
Go to you tube and see all his videos and maybe you learn something.
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Just listen to Douglas Macgregor, who has experience instead all the nonsese you post. Ukraine is turning into a Grave Yar.
https://www.youtube.com/live/9vf7Tt5KVKc?app=desktop
Go to you tube and see all his videos and maybe you learn something.
minute vid
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o21Hggn-1K0
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I note the useful idiots continue to post, well, idiocy.
FTR, Ukrainian men are not dragged off the streets in Ukraine to serve in the army. Men who have received a draft notice and don't report on the day they are required to appear are tracked and arrested. Even if drafted, they won't necessarily be called to service immediately.
But, I suppose the truth isn't as "sexy" as an outright lie.
Lol so that makes it ok then. We gave them 'papers' and then kidnapped them when they decided they didn't want to die. Because that's how human rights and the civilised world works.
Ukrainian men were and are dragged off the street. Nobody is lying about that except you.
Men are given draft notices, delivered to their homes. They are then required to go register at the draft office. That doesn't mean they are immediately drafted into the army. Those that evade registration are rounded up. The same is true in Russia, and you can see similar videos from Russia.
Whether you agree or not, your narrative was a lie. Ukrainian authorities are not picking up random men off the street.
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I note the useful idiots continue to post, well, idiocy.
FTR, Ukrainian men are not dragged off the streets in Ukraine to serve in the army. Men who have received a draft notice and don't report on the day they are required to appear are tracked and arrested. Even if drafted, they won't necessarily be called to service immediately.
But, I suppose the truth isn't as "sexy" as an outright lie.
Lol so that makes it ok then. We gave them 'papers' and then kidnapped them when they decided they didn't want to die. Because that's how human rights and the civilised world works.
Ukrainian men were and are dragged off the street. Nobody is lying about that except you.
Men are given draft notices, delivered to their homes. They are then required to go register at the draft office. That doesn't mean they are immediately drafted into the army. Those that evade registration are rounded up. The same is true in Russia, and you can see similar videos from Russia.
Whether you agree or not, your narrative was a lie. Ukrainian authorities are not picking up random men off the street.
Rubbish.
We can see it for exactly what it is Halo. Men aren't allowed to leave the country. Men cant leave their cities and districts. Road blocks are being set up. Wealthy men will bribe their way out because Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe. All men must fight and when their time comes, they'll go whether they like it or not.
No human rights. No choice. No chance for survival. But lets compare it with Russia to deflect the discussion.
Let's all pretend that what's happening is fair, just and normal because there's a bit of paper......it's you that's the liar and I'd love to see your face if hubby got thrown in the wagon against his will.
What's going on is appalling.
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The survival rate inside the Ukraine army is higher than inside the Russian army. I am not saying it is good but better. Whether you realize it or not, Russia is losing.
AS far a refugees inside Russia most of the people who chose to go to Russia did so in 2014 not currently. Many of the current ones that went were sent forcible to filtration camps. These Refugees have become a big asset for Ukraine as they carry out parison war fare against Russia. The number of unexplained fires and explosions inside Russia have increased fifteen times in 2022 from what it was before the war and will likely be much higher in 2023. A big ammo where factory and where house northeast of Moscow blown up yesterday. Someone of the ground carried it out. No drone and missile.
Ammo dumps all over Crimea going boom due to missiles. Bridges out to where delivery what ammo that is left is difficult. Life in Ukraine army is hard but life in Russian army even worse. It is just in your Russian Propaganda you do not hear about this stuff, so you think it is not happening.
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The survival rate inside the Ukraine army is higher than inside the Russian army.
Do you have any proof of this, other than Ukrainian government figures and your imagination? You do realise that both Ukraine and western intelligence have started to admit that things are bleak in terms of losses. When they start to admit that, you know exactly how bad it really is.
We watch drone footage, interviews from Ukrainians captured or fleeing the front and the real picture starts to come alive. I think you need to start being more honest with yourself before posting junk all over the forum. Ukraine are slowly running out of soldiers and in particularly willing soldiers.
Ukraine themselves confirmed its forces had suffered 10,000 killed and 30,000 wounded by the start of June 2022 during the summer offensive alone, while 7,200 troops were missing, including 5,600 captured. Now you can imagine the real numbers between then and now.
Meanwhile, unbiased data suggests that Russia have lost 50,000 men since the start of 2022. Ukraine will have lost more than that since June.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/new-data-uncovers-50000-russian-deaths-during-the-ukraine-war
AS far a refugees inside Russia most of the people who chose to go to Russia did so in 2014 not currently.
That's a complete lie. Look up all the recent data in the western press and you will see that more refugees moved to Russia than any other single country following the 2022 SMO. Why do you constantly post rubbish Tex?
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-ukrainian-refugee-destinations/#:~:text=Over%20eight%20million%20Ukraine%20residents,February%202022%2C%20primarily%20in%20Europe.&text=The%20largest%20share%20of%20refugees,actually%20gone%20directly%20to%20Russia.
These Refugees have become a big asset for Ukraine as they carry out parison war fare against Russia. The number of unexplained fires and explosions inside Russia have increased fifteen times in 2022 from what it was before the war and will likely be much higher in 2023. A big ammo where factory and where house northeast of Moscow blown up yesterday. Someone of the ground carried it out. No drone and missile.
Again please share your proof of this?
Look at all the spying, intelligence gathering & sabotage which has happened inside Ukraine and all the people who have been arrested, many of them Ukrainian themselves, for working for the Russians. A huge increase since 2022, are you saying that these people are somehow Russian refugees fleeing war?
I think you really need to use your brain Tex and stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions. The members here aren't stupid and we see straight through your fantasies. The Ukrainian government hides their losses whilst boasting about a made up number of Russian ones (as the Russians do too) so dont ever think that this is the real story.
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I note the useful idiots continue to post, well, idiocy.
FTR, Ukrainian men are not dragged off the streets in Ukraine to serve in the army. Men who have received a draft notice and don't report on the day they are required to appear are tracked and arrested. Even if drafted, they won't necessarily be called to service immediately.
But, I suppose the truth isn't as "sexy" as an outright lie.
Lol so that makes it ok then. We gave them 'papers' and then kidnapped them when they decided they didn't want to die. Because that's how human rights and the civilised world works.
Ukrainian men were and are dragged off the street. Nobody is lying about that except you.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
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Lol so that makes it ok then. We gave them 'papers' and then kidnapped them when they decided they didn't want to die. Because that's how human rights and the civilised world works.
Ukrainian men were and are dragged off the street. Nobody is lying about that except you.
I never claimed they weren't being "dragged off the streets". I merely noted your narrative is inaccurate. They are not being kidnapped. They are being arrested for eluding their draft notices. The same thing occurs in Russia, as I noted.
Thanks for admitting Russia is not part of the civilized world.
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This morning I saw a MSM broadcast that reported 400,000 Ukrainian Soldiers DEAD and 2 MILLION Severely wounded primarily by pink mist-inducing 150MM Artillery Shell bombardments.
Drone videos of 127,000 more Ukrainian Soldiers fresh new Graves in multiple war dead cemeteries.
UA 400K Dead and 2 Million wounded - no wonder both UA and RU men beating feet to friendly countries to get away from this NATO Funded MASSACRE. NATO Officials now calling for UA to cede RU land gains for peace NOW to prevent further massacres of young UA men and importantly prevent the spread of the conflict to the EU.
CCP Chomping at the bit to provide a replacement population to rebuild UA and run its Red Chinese CCP Belt and Roads projects across UA to the EU.
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This morning I saw a MSM broadcast that reported 400,000 Ukrainian Soldiers DEAD and 2 MILLION Severely wounded primarily by pink mist-inducing 150MM Artillery Shell bombardments.
Drone videos of 127,000 more Ukrainian Soldiers fresh new Graves in multiple war dead cemeteries.
UA 400K Dead and 2 Million wounded - no wonder both UA and RU men beating feet to friendly countries to get away from this NATO Funded MASSACRE. NATO Officials now calling for UA to cede RU land gains for peace NOW to prevent further massacres of young UA men and importantly prevent the spread of the conflict to the EU.
CCP Chomping at the bit to provide a replacement population to rebuild UA and run its Red Chinese CCP Belt and Roads projects across UA to the EU.
I was not aware the Ukraine army depended on zombies. The Ukraine army is give or take some 250,000 soldiers. It has likely grown some since February 2022.
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This from NYT https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html
The total number of Ukrainian and Russian troops killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began 18 months ago is nearing 500,000, U.S. officials said, a staggering toll as Russia assaults its next-door neighbor and tries to seize more territory.
Russia’s military casualties, the officials said, are approaching 300,000. The number includes as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injured troops. The Russian numbers dwarf the Ukrainian figures, which the officials put at close to 70,000 killed and 100,000 to 120,000 wounded.
Of course, only estimates.
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
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BC,
I have no desire to get caught in your web of merry-go-round semantics and minutiae.
You've been, for the most part, on the wrong side of the truth from my vantage point in many a discussion; be it Trump, covid, Russiagate, Ukraine, Russia, Biden, etc. So much so, I don't read most of what you post anymore.
What's the point?
For whatever reason, you have failed to distant yourself from your erroneous dogmatic views, or at least from what I have seen. I've seen little if any change in your views, mostly just a double down on point.
Your posting of another article from the NYT is just an extension of this.
And you have, what in your mind, must be a get out of jail free card with your ad nauseam "it's just your opinion" response to justify your dogma or discredit the obvious.
Something must trigger your lizard brain, best I can figure.
Maybe you just trust the establishment too much and believe they follow the letter of the law. If the latter is the case, that's your first mistake.
Hey, I'm ready to live in a world where everyone follows the rules and states the truth. Unfortunately, it's not the world we live in.
You know, I try best I can to change things within myself that make me a better person. One of those things is to admit when I'm wrong.
Unfortunately, you never do. In that respect I often wonder if you're just trolling us.
я не против поговорить с тобой, но не трать у нас время. понял чувак
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This from NYT https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html
The total number of Ukrainian and Russian troops killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began 18 months ago is nearing 500,000, U.S. officials said, a staggering toll as Russia assaults its next-door neighbor and tries to seize more territory.
Russia’s military casualties, the officials said, are approaching 300,000. The number includes as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injured troops. The Russian numbers dwarf the Ukrainian figures, which the officials put at close to 70,000 killed and 100,000 to 120,000 wounded.
Of course, only estimates.
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
The perfect example of brain-mashing daily feed in the US of what some still regard as ‘newsworthy’.
And who else to propagate such garbage to the great at large? The usual suspect, of course - BC.
In about a week or so, half a dozen squealing pigs will be seen flying over your horizon.
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Russia’s military casualties, the officials said, are approaching 300,000. The number includes as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injured troops. The Russian numbers dwarf the Ukrainian figures, which the officials put at close to 70,000 killed and 100,000 to 120,000 wounded.[/i]
Of course, only estimates.
Absolute nonsense from a source who takes their numbers from the Ukrainian regime. I'll dig out a social media post from an independent investigator, who used a BBC affiliated report using all kinds of data including recruitment numbers, graves, official funerals, social media activity etc.
It proved that Ukraine have lost anywhere in the region of 4/7 - 1 when it comes to losses. The numbers were staggering yet we get fed all these lies in order to keep up the war support.
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Here we go;
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7267627161295670561
A BBC survey count for both Russia and Ukraine using obituaries, population surveys, cemetery construction, amputee disclosures, hospital disclosures, endless conscription but no army growth etc.
200k-400k range of casualties for Ukraine. 30k dead for the Russians but its more likely around d 48k. Ukraine have suffered between 7-13 dead for each Russian.
Feel free to click the link and watch for yourselves.
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BC,
I have no desire to get caught in your web of merry-go-round semantics and minutiae.
You've been, for the most part, on the wrong side of the truth from my vantage point in many a discussion...
If that is the case, it would probably be easier for you just to ignore my posts. Won't bother me at all.
That we may have differences is a given. After all, a discussion consists of different views. Gets boring when everyone says the same thing. If hogging a soapbox is what you desire, it's very easy to set up a forum. Try https://smfnew.com/ which is supposedly free. I promise I won't sign up.
Pretty easy solutions, eh?
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The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
Yes, Bodine, no one really knows for sure. That is exactly what the article states. So?
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The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
Yes, Bodine, no one really knows for sure. That is exactly what the article states. So?
If they were attempting to be honest BC, they might have acknowledged that Ukraine over estimate Russian losses and massively under represent their own.
That's what BC. Instead its another baseless article tossed on the top of a pile of western propaganda.
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The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
Yes, Bodine, no one really knows for sure. That is exactly what the article states. So?
If they were attempting to be honest BC, they might have acknowledged that Ukraine over estimate Russian losses and massively under represent their own.
That's what BC. Instead its another baseless article tossed on the top of a pile of western propaganda.
If nobody knows, it's impossible to say who may be overestimating the losses of the other. Take the extremes, and the real value probably lies somewhere in between. Pretty easy concept to grasp. Maybe one day in the future we'll have a better count.
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BC,
I have no desire to get caught in your web of merry-go-round semantics and minutiae.
You've been, for the most part, on the wrong side of the truth from my vantage point in many a discussion...
If that is the case, it would probably be easier for you just to ignore my posts. Won't bother me at all.
That we may have differences is a given. After all, a discussion consists of different views. Gets boring when everyone says the same thing. If hogging a soapbox is what you desire, it's very easy to set up a forum. Try https://smfnew.com/ which is supposedly free. I promise I won't sign up.
Pretty easy solutions, eh?
BC, WTF do you think I do, read your silly shit, :laugh:. You're a f'n joke. I thought I'd make one last attempt to stop you from making a complete fool of yourself. Now, I see you revel in it.
Oh, and you're soooo emotionally strong :ROFL:
And shocker, you missed the point, be better, not just a ridiculous contrarian. And no, repeating truths 100's of times is not boring. Reading your posts is.
Different views are welcome, but an ad nauseam regurgitation of untruths, or proven misinformation is a waste of time, for everyone including you, except you seem to have unlimited time to waste.
Oh, ignoring you is way easy. But, sometimes it can't be helped because of the smell.
I will, though, be calling you out on your nonsensical views about Russia, which I have let slide for the most part, because you know, I basically ignore you.
Just for the record, when it comes to Russia, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
Yes, Bodine, no one really knows for sure. That is exactly what the article states. So?
If they were attempting to be honest BC, they might have acknowledged that Ukraine over estimate Russian losses and massively under represent their own.
That's what BC. Instead its another baseless article tossed on the top of a pile of western propaganda.
What else did you expect? (:)
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BC,
I have no desire to get caught in your web of merry-go-round semantics and minutiae.
You've been, for the most part, on the wrong side of the truth from my vantage point in many a discussion...
If that is the case, it would probably be easier for you just to ignore my posts. Won't bother me at all.
That we may have differences is a given. After all, a discussion consists of different views. Gets boring when everyone says the same thing. If hogging a soapbox is what you desire, it's very easy to set up a forum. Try https://smfnew.com/ which is supposedly free. I promise I won't sign up.
Pretty easy solutions, eh?
BC, WTF do you think I do, read your silly shit, :laugh:. You're a f'n joke. I thought I'd make one last attempt to stop you from making a complete fool of yourself. Now, I see you revel in it.
Oh, and you're soooo emotionally strong :ROFL:
And shocker, you missed the point, be better, not just a ridiculous contrarian. And no, repeating truths 100's of times is not boring. Reading your posts is.
Different views are welcome, but an ad nauseam regurgitation of untruths, or proven misinformation is a waste of time, for everyone including you, except you seem to have unlimited time to waste.
Oh, ignoring you is way easy. But, sometimes it can't be helped because of the smell.
I will, though, be calling you out on your nonsensical views about Russia, which I have let slide for the most part, because you know, I basically ignore you.
Just for the record, when it comes to Russia, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ahh, instead of reading, you smell what I write. That makes sense. More cheese with your whine, Danchik? I have some great Taleggio, smells great.
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Here we go;
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7267627161295670561
A BBC survey count for both Russia and Ukraine using obituaries, population surveys, cemetery construction, amputee disclosures, hospital disclosures, endless conscription but no army growth etc.
200k-400k range of casualties for Ukraine. 30k dead for the Russians but its more likely around d 48k. Ukraine have suffered between 7-13 dead for each Russian.
Feel free to click the link and watch for yourselves.
Y0ou link does not work here without my signing up. Of course, Ukraine has had 400 k casualties what is missing is Russia has had a lot more than that. Noticed how you changed numbers from casualties to death which are too very different numbers. With Russia there are also two different numbers of causalities. The number of dead fighting for Russia and the number of dead Russian soldiers. For example, Wagner lost more the 30k prisoners dead, but they are not considered Russian soldiers. LNR and DNR have had extremely high dead and causality rates but not consider Russian soldiers. Russia is rounding up all men that can walk in the occupied territories. First force them to get Russian passports then mobilizing them and put them on the front line with no training. Chechen also groups have had high rates. Then on top of the Russia just grossly underestimates it causalities. If the kill rate favors Russia and Russia is the larger country, then why is Russia losing? Russia has lost over half the ground it once occupied. The current rate Ukraine is capturing ground seems to be increasing in the last week or so. A lot or Russian soldiers never get home because they are cremated in Ukraine and listed as missing so Russia does not have to be the death benefit. Others are just left where they fell in the battlefield. So, looking for graves inside Russia is a waste of time. Most of the dead never get back to Russia.
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BC,
I have no desire to get caught in your web of merry-go-round semantics and minutiae.
You've been, for the most part, on the wrong side of the truth from my vantage point in many a discussion...
If that is the case, it would probably be easier for you just to ignore my posts. Won't bother me at all.
That we may have differences is a given. After all, a discussion consists of different views. Gets boring when everyone says the same thing. If hogging a soapbox is what you desire, it's very easy to set up a forum. Try https://smfnew.com/ which is supposedly free. I promise I won't sign up.
Pretty easy solutions, eh?
BC, WTF do you think I do, read your silly shit, :laugh:. You're a f'n joke. I thought I'd make one last attempt to stop you from making a complete fool of yourself. Now, I see you revel in it.
Oh, and you're soooo emotionally strong :ROFL:
And shocker, you missed the point, be better, not just a ridiculous contrarian. And no, repeating truths 100's of times is not boring. Reading your posts is.
Different views are welcome, but an ad nauseam regurgitation of untruths, or proven misinformation is a waste of time, for everyone including you, except you seem to have unlimited time to waste.
Oh, ignoring you is way easy. But, sometimes it can't be helped because of the smell.
I will, though, be calling you out on your nonsensical views about Russia, which I have let slide for the most part, because you know, I basically ignore you.
Just for the record, when it comes to Russia, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ahh, instead of reading, you smell what I write. That makes sense. More cheese with your whine, Danchik? I have some great Taleggio, smells great.
I expected nothing less from you Moby, er BC.
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The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
Yes, Bodine, no one really knows for sure. That is exactly what the article states. So?
‘ Thick as a brick’, so sings Mr. Anderson.
Funny. At least Texan77 is hormonally charged emotionally inspired when shares his thoughts.
‘Rikki’ not around bro?
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BC,
I have no desire to get caught in your web of merry-go-round semantics and minutiae.
You've been, for the most part, on the wrong side of the truth from my vantage point in many a discussion...
If that is the case, it would probably be easier for you just to ignore my posts. Won't bother me at all.
That we may have differences is a given. After all, a discussion consists of different views. Gets boring when everyone says the same thing. If hogging a soapbox is what you desire, it's very easy to set up a forum. Try https://smfnew.com/ which is supposedly free. I promise I won't sign up.
Pretty easy solutions, eh?
BC, WTF do you think I do, read your silly shit, :laugh:. You're a f'n joke. I thought I'd make one last attempt to stop you from making a complete fool of yourself. Now, I see you revel in it.
Oh, and you're soooo emotionally strong :ROFL:
And shocker, you missed the point, be better, not just a ridiculous contrarian. And no, repeating truths 100's of times is not boring. Reading your posts is.
Different views are welcome, but an ad nauseam regurgitation of untruths, or proven misinformation is a waste of time, for everyone including you, except you seem to have unlimited time to waste.
Oh, ignoring you is way easy. But, sometimes it can't be helped because of the smell.
I will, though, be calling you out on your nonsensical views about Russia, which I have let slide for the most part, because you know, I basically ignore you.
Just for the record, when it comes to Russia, you have no idea what you're talking about.
For being a fu*king joke BC sure gets your panties in a bunch.
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я не против поговорить с тобой, но не трать у нас время. понял чувак
All that time in Moscow and your grammar still sucks.
Тут тебе не здес Пиши правилно! (For Guile, who assumes this is an attempt at grammatical language - it's not. Just as my last phrase, which "proved I can't speak Russian" wasn't. Though this is in Ukrainian).
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Here we go;
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7267627161295670561
Do you have the link for the English version rosco?
😜
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The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Translation: no one really knows.
Yes, Bodine, no one really knows for sure. That is exactly what the article states. So?
If they were attempting to be honest BC, they might have acknowledged that Ukraine over estimate Russian losses and massively under represent their own.
That's what BC. Instead its another baseless article tossed on the top of a pile of western propaganda.
The first casualty in War is the truth.
We the People of the World should be planning right now on how to not be fooled into yet another senseless war which only benefits the 1%.
Warmongers and war profiteers will lose their power when all the rest of humanity collectively says "no, we are not going to kill our neighbors".
Easier said than done at this point.
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Of course, Ukraine has had 400 k casualties what is missing is Russia has had a lot more than that.
They used the same set of data to compare both Russia and Ukraine. Russia have lost significantly less soldiers than Ukraine.
That was the thrust of the report whether you like it or not. Our media use Ukraines figures which are of course as useful as a condom machine in the Vatican.
Russia is rounding up all men that can walk in the occupied territories. First force them to get Russian passports then mobilizing them and put them on the front line with no training.
Lies. It's Ukraine who are rounding up men and snatching them off the street, sending them on a 2 week training camp and throwing into the meat grinder.
Russia have conscription but they also have people willingly singing up before getting at least 6 months training. Those are the facts Tex.
The current rate Ukraine is capturing ground seems to be increasing in the last week or so.
Please tell me you're joking, right?
:'(
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from the NYT
Ukrainian figures: 70k killed and 100k to 120k wounded.
Russia’s military casualties are approaching 300k. The number includes as many as 120k deaths and 170k to 180k injured troops.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html
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from the NYT
Ukrainian figures: 70k killed and 100k to 120k wounded.
Russia’s military casualties are approaching 300k. The number includes as many as 120k deaths and 170k to 180k injured troops.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html
Most likely another 100,000-civilian killed earlier in the war but no way to know for sure until Ukraine reclaims the land. So, for now the official number is like about 12,000 civilians mostly Russian speaking Ukrainians.
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Of course, Ukraine has had 400 k casualties what is missing is Russia has had a lot more than that.
They used the same set of data to compare both Russia and Ukraine. Russia have lost significantly less soldiers than Ukraine.
That was the thrust of the report whether you like it or not. Our media use Ukraines figures which are of course as useful as a condom machine in the Vatican.
Set of data referred to in these articles?
https://en.zona.media/article/2023/07/10/stats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-829ea0ba-5b42-499b-ad40-6990f2c4e5d0
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/new-data-uncovers-50000-russian-deaths-during-the-ukraine-war
All refer only to attempts to estimate RU casualties. Or did I miss some part where the same methodology was used to estimate UA casualties?
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from the NYT
Ukrainian figures: 70k killed and 100k to 120k wounded.
Russia’s military casualties are approaching 300k. The number includes as many as 120k deaths and 170k to 180k injured troops.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html
"From the NYT" and "Ukrainian figures" is like two different ways of saying inaccurate.
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"From the NYT" and "Ukrainian figures" is like two different ways of saying inaccurate.
The second paragraph states:
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
Clearly, the best anyone can do is guess.
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"From the NYT" and "Ukrainian figures" is like two different ways of saying inaccurate.
The second paragraph states:
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kiev does not disclose official figures.
[/s][/i]
This reporter cautions that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because neither side is believed to be releasing the correct number of dead and injured
[/i]
Clearly, the best anyone can do is guess.
This is how that statement may have appeared in the NYT if, the NYT was an unbiased source of information. But, it is not. The true and correct numbers are known BC. They are just not known or broadcast to YOU, by the usual dubious sources. The reason being, they (the powers that be) do not want you to know as it might change the way you view your opinion of this war that they have so cleverly crafted your opinion.
Do you see how that works? If they will lie to you about that, can you imagine what else they will lie to you about? Oh sorry, I almost forgot to whom I was explaining. Of course you can't
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I honestly didn't think it needed explaining, FP. But then I had since really taken the stance to consider the source/s, especially with BC. He's posted enough junk in every subject these past few years to have earned the notoriety.
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I honestly didn't think it needed explaining, FP. But then I had since really taken the stance to consider the source/s, especially with BC. He's posted enough junk in every subject these past few years to have earned the notoriety.
BC is just one of many my friend that truly can not see the forest for the trees. I did have a momentary lapse of my riposte and to whom I was explaining apples vs oranges
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This is how that statement may have appeared in the NYT if, the NYT was an unbiased source of information. But, it is not. The true and correct numbers are known BC. They are just not known or broadcast to YOU, by the usual dubious sources. The reason being, they (the powers that be) do not want you to know as it might change the way you view your opinion of this war that they have so cleverly crafted your opinion.
Do you see how that works? If they will lie to you about that, can you imagine what else they will lie to you about? Oh sorry, I almost forgot to whom I was explaining. Of course you can't
Absolutely.
It works for both Russia and Ukraine but if all the reports outside of those using Ukrainian data are true, then the huge losses that Ukraine have sustained give motivation to Russia and more importantly, dilutes the appetite in the West to support the mass killings.
It's the mushroom effect. Keep us in the dark and feed us shit.
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I honestly didn't think it needed explaining, FP. But then I had since really taken the stance to consider the source/s, especially with BC. He's posted enough junk in every subject these past few years to have earned the notoriety.
BC is just one of many my friend that truly can not see the forest for the trees. I did have a momentary lapse of my riposte and to whom I was explaining apples vs oranges
You are too diplomatic FP. I could never refer to someone who is okay with mutilating children both for profit as a "friend".
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This morning I saw a MSM broadcast that reported 400,000 Ukrainian Soldiers DEAD and 2 MILLION Severely wounded primarily by pink mist-inducing 150MM Artillery Shell bombardments.
Drone videos of 127,000 more Ukrainian Soldiers fresh new Graves in multiple war dead cemeteries.
UA 400K Dead and 2 Million wounded - no wonder both UA and RU men beating feet to friendly countries to get away from this NATO Funded MASSACRE. NATO Officials now calling for UA to cede RU land gains for peace NOW to prevent further massacres of young UA men and importantly prevent the spread of the conflict to the EU.
CCP Chomping at the bit to provide a replacement population to rebuild UA and run its Red Chinese CCP Belt and Roads projects across UA to the EU.
I was not aware the Ukraine army depended on zombies. The Ukraine army is give or take some 250,000 soldiers. It has likely grown some since February 2022.
The First UA Army when this started was a NATO subsidiary at over 600,000 soldiers. Now with 400,000 dead your 250K surviving until next Zalenski10%ski suicide charges is in the ballpark.
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This morning I saw a MSM broadcast that reported 400,000 Ukrainian Soldiers DEAD and 2 MILLION Severely wounded primarily by pink mist-inducing 150MM Artillery Shell bombardments.
Drone videos of 127,000 more Ukrainian Soldiers fresh new Graves in multiple war dead cemeteries.
UA 400K Dead and 2 Million wounded - no wonder both UA and RU men beating feet to friendly countries to get away from this NATO Funded MASSACRE. NATO Officials now calling for UA to cede RU land gains for peace NOW to prevent further massacres of young UA men and importantly prevent the spread of the conflict to the EU.
CCP Chomping at the bit to provide a replacement population to rebuild UA and run its Red Chinese CCP Belt and Roads projects across UA to the EU.
I was not aware the Ukraine army depended on zombies. The Ukraine army is give or take some 250,000 soldiers. It has likely grown some since February 2022.
The First UA Army when this started was a NATO subsidiary at over 600,000 soldiers. Now with 400,000 dead your 250K surviving until next Zalenski10%ski suicide charges is in the ballpark.
It could be mildly amusing if you can note some credible sources for your numbers. Janes would be fine and no that is not your friendly waitress/bartender.
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The First UA Army when this started was a NATO subsidiary at over 600,000 soldiers. Now with 400,000 dead your 250K surviving until next Zalenski10%ski suicide charges is in the ballpark.
Yea ... WE all know. Everybody in Ukraine dead and still Russia keeps on losing ground each day. Maybe the ghost of Kiev is real after all. :ROFL:
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The First UA Army when this started was a NATO subsidiary at over 600,000 soldiers. Now with 400,000 dead your 250K surviving until next Zalenski10%ski suicide charges is in the ballpark.
Yea ... WE all know. Everybody in Ukraine dead and still Russia keeps on losing ground each day. Maybe the ghost of Kiev is real after all.
Sad to see a man behaving like Tex does...
Meanwhile, some of the military hardware which was sold to Ukraine? Some of it has shown up in arms bazaars in Kosovo, and where else?
Apparently a member of a drug cartel who has invaded the USA or would like to, is now walking around with a Javelin missile?
About 32 minutes into the video I just posted above, Colonel MacGregor says.
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About 32 minutes into the video I just posted above, Colonel MacGregor says.
Colonel MacGregor is a pro-Russian propagandist that seldom says anything that is really true. Did you not get the memo. Most of his old video have been taken down because nothing he says every happens and nearly none of his so-called facts are real. So why should anybody look at his videos?
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Meanwhile, some of the military hardware which was sold to Ukraine? Some of it has shown up in arms bazaars in Kosovo, and where else?
It's already showing up across the EU, I've read reports of guns that were sent to Ukraine being found in France, Germany and Poland. There are US missiles from Ukraine for sale on the dark net too.
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Meanwhile, some of the military hardware which was sold to Ukraine? Some of it has shown up in arms bazaars in Kosovo, and where else?
It's already showing up across the EU, I've read reports of guns that were sent to Ukraine being found in France, Germany and Poland. There are US missiles from Ukraine for sale on the dark net too.
Referring to this posted on youtube a year ago?
A pro-Russian news agency, ABS News, claimed that an FGM-148 Javelin is on sale for $ 30,000 on the darknet. ABS News further claimed that the FGM-148 Javelin, is one of the anti-tank missile systems supplied by the US. While there is no way to prove the authenticity of the claim, ABS News relied on the location on the product page, which was Kiev.
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Some weapons get captured by Russian soldiers and they sell them.
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https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30045.0;attach=63021;image
:loving: :loving: :loving:
This image (#242) largely explains why Russia is doing so poorly with the invasion of Ukraine.
NB: Rosco’s post is from the transgender thread.
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Some weapons get captured by Russian soldiers and they sell them.
Why are you unable to accept reality Tex? Anything and everything is twisted or skewed in your mind, in order to meet your hopes.
BTW Russia are actually the ones gaining ground all along the front but our media stays positive and talks up Ukrainian victories in isolated pockets, where they win a village or two but then lose it to the Russians a few days later.
Keep up or get left behind.
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The Ukrainians have lost over 50,000 soldiers in just the last 2 months alone, fighting on the counter offensive.
How many did they lose in Bakhmut over 8 months when they were sitting ducks being targeted by from all sorts of munitions and sending in 7 drafts? Estimates are upwards of 100,000 but our media and Ukraine tries to bury it.
It's looking like the 8/10 Ukrainians killed to every Russian is pretty accurate, which is horrific on every level yet the propaganda and lies continue and the sheep think that Ukraine is beating a broken, under prepared Russian military riddled with corruption and inept tactics.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7272827151919992097?lang=en
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Some weapons get captured by Russian soldiers and they sell them.
Why are you unable to accept reality Tex? Anything and everything is twisted or skewed in your mind, in order to meet your hopes.
BTW Russia are actually the ones gaining ground all along the front but our media stays positive and talks up Ukrainian victories in isolated pockets, where they win a village or two but then lose it to the Russians a few days later.
Keep up or get left behind.
Ok keep up.
Show the total front line advances by the RF over the last month or the last year since last august.
The front line collapsed in Kharkov and khersin and fell back 100 kilometers regionally. Over 100s if kilometers.
RF gained 20 kilometers in bakmut over a 70 kilometers front..
They have now lost the north and south gains of that and badically hold bakmut and the old declination line of 2014/15 in Donetsk oblast.
They are losing a kilometer here and there daily across the entire south line.
Yes i agree the ukrainian cost is tremendous
But your statement russia is gaining ground across the entire front line is frankly silly
Lets see proof.
They have had limited success in northern Lugansk obladt which was immediately lost.
They gained a kilometer in a very small forest pocket in southern Lugansk.
The lost ground in donetsk.
They lost ground in zap,they lost ground in khersin with a river as a natural barrier and after blowing a dam.
Exactly show the gains.
Bskmut?
Thats the entire front line?
Do they control. Kharkov? Kupansk? Izum? Lyman? Robtne?
Vuhladar? Andrivka?
Any of the other vectors they attacked on?
They held those areas soth to north, yet dont now,but they are advancing along the entire front? Interesting concept .
Enlighten everyone.
Why did prigozhin mutiny?
Because things were going well?
They were advancing along the entire front?
Or just admit what anyone can see,
they made huge initial
advances in the initial.invasion,
Made thier land bridge land grab,and are now not in any kind of offensive position and simply trying to defend what they took.
They simply cant take donetsk oblast ,
they CAN hold the old defence line that dpr held ,( as they can supply troop airsupport from.russian airspace)
But only done by mobilizing 300k.
Now, without wagner pmc ,
they will need to mobilize again if they intend to hold the land bridge.
That i think they will do.
And ukraine AFU will push up agaisnt that line the entire lenght ( and the RF will concede those few kilometers along the entire southern lenght.)
My guess,
is it stagnates there like it did in donestk in 14/15 with random fighting outbreaks for years until both sides reach a peace deal which likely has ukraine concede crimea and those portions of donetsk and Lugansk ,for the return of the occupied khersin and zap oblasts.
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Ok keep up.
Show the total front line advances by the RF over the last month or the last year since last august.
The front line collapsed in Kharkov and khersin and fell back 100 kilometers regionally. Over 100s if kilometers.
RF gained 20 kilometers in bakmut over a 70 kilometers front..
You've never been the smartest man in the room AJ.
I'd suggest you study the attached map and look at the areas on said map, which have conveniently been coloured in to show Russian advances. Then compare it to the coloured in areas marked Ukrainian advances. If your eye's are functioning, you'll see that even with all the media talking about Ukrainian wins, it is in fact Russia who are taking more ground in aggregate.
Whilst Ukraine does its best to break through in the south and hit the Sea of Azov and split the Russian forces, the Russians are gaining ground all along the front but particularly in the north, heading in the Kharkov direction. Far from being there yet AJ but you might want to watch the developments closely rather than living from a headline, if you want to be properly informed.
* the map is from the ISW and not some 'Russian propaganda' piece.
[attachimg=1]
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They have now lost the north and south gains of that and badically hold bakmut and the old declination line of 2014/15 in Donetsk oblast.
Please tell me you heard about the Russians switching attack into defence, falling back into heavily fortified positions and waiting for the 'summer offensive'? It was a strategic move but feel free to tell us it was incompetence and the Russians were all running home crying whilst dodging bullets from their own.
They are losing a kilometer here and there daily across the entire south line.
That's simply not true. Ukraine are having some small success in a corridor but not along the front.
But your statement russia is gaining ground across the entire front line is frankly silly
Lets see proof.
They have had limited success in northern Lugansk obladt which was immediately lost.
And now you have it.
If the ISW in't enough for you, there's plenty out there being documented by independent war journalists on the socials. Time to learn AJ and look at the world through reality.
Enlighten everyone.
You're welcome. :thumbsup:
Do they control. Kharkov? Kupansk? Izum? Lyman? Robtne?
Vuhladar? Andrivka?
Any of the other vectors they attacked on?
They simply cant take donetsk oblast ,
they CAN hold the old defence line that dpr held ,( as they can supply troop airsupport from.russian airspace)
But only done by mobilizing 300k.
Now, without wagner pmc ,
they will need to mobilize again if they intend to hold the land bridge.
See the top of this post and you'll find your answer.
My guess,
is it stagnates there like it did in donestk in 14/15 with random fighting outbreaks for years until both sides reach a peace deal which likely has ukraine concede crimea and those portions of donetsk and Lugansk ,for the return of the occupied khersin and zap oblasts.
That's quite possible. I think it'll be one of two things;
1) The west don't want to lose so in order to keep face, they do enough and provide enough to leave that part of the planet like a shit hole until enough people forget what the war was about and then ride in offering peace terms and leave like savours.
2) Russia destroy the offensive along with vast amounts of men, machinery and equipment, and Ukraines armed forces are left seriously depleted. Russia go on the offensive and take the lands in the eastern oblasts which they said they'd take and set camp there, moving the fortified defences forward. If Ukraine are close to collapse they might just head for Kiev.
But all of this depends on whether the west can or want to keep funding the war and they might just do an Afghanistan and abandon it altogether. New policies come with new presidents and I'd expect someone at some point to offer Russia the eastern oblasts & Crimea and keep Ukraine out of NATO to get peace.
Only time will tell.
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* the map is from the ISW and not some 'Russian propaganda' piece.
Can you provide the link? Thanks
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* the map is from the ISW and not some 'Russian propaganda' piece.
Can you provide the link? Thanks
Sure, here is the link.
https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/status/1697335103528050802?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1697335103528050802%7Ctwgr%5E003cda60d8320e68a095fd22f8e83e506b5911f4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fconsequence.net%2F2023%2F09%2Fmorgan-wallen-porta-potty-brawl%2F
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Google translate does a good job:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/427409936/massale-verliezen-oekraiense-elitetroepen-negentig-procent-van-de-jongens-hier-zal-sterven
Basicly says: heavy losses from Ukrainian soldiers on the frontal attack lines. 90% of them die.
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Google translate does a good job:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/427409936/massale-verliezen-oekraiense-elitetroepen-negentig-procent-van-de-jongens-hier-zal-sterven
Basicly says: heavy losses from Ukrainian soldiers on the frontal attack lines. 90% of them die.
90 per cent of Ukraine troops died in Bakhmut. Now 90 percent of them die in the south. So basically there is not Ukraine army and Russia still cannot take defend its lines.
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Google translate does a good job:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/427409936/massale-verliezen-oekraiense-elitetroepen-negentig-procent-van-de-jongens-hier-zal-sterven
Basicly says: heavy losses from Ukrainian soldiers on the frontal attack lines. 90% of them die.
90 per cent of Ukraine troops died in Bakhmut. Now 90 percent of them die in the south. So basically there is not Ukraine army and Russia still cannot take defend its lines.
Let me guess, Math and English comprehension were not your strong points in high school.
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Google translate does a good job:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/427409936/massale-verliezen-oekraiense-elitetroepen-negentig-procent-van-de-jongens-hier-zal-sterven
Basicly says: heavy losses from Ukrainian soldiers on the frontal attack lines. 90% of them die.
90 per cent of Ukraine troops died in Bakhmut. Now 90 percent of them die in the south. So basically there is not Ukraine army and Russia still cannot take defend its lines.
I'll help him out being the good samaritan I am........
Tex - it's estimated that 90% of the Ukrainian troops fighting in Bakhmut died. Now they're dead they can no longer fight because.....well they're dead so these poor buggers never made it to the south.
There is still of course a Ukrainian army but it's constantly being fed with new poor buggers who end up putting their lives at risk every single day.
Russia have lost many men too. The actual number is often over estimated by the Ukrainians and reported by the pro Ukrainian media but Russia have a bigger country and more men willing to fight. That's not propaganda btw it's just a simple fact.
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Texan77, the 90% attrition rate is likely to be an exaggeration on the part of the poor sods who are getting killed. It is also referring only to specific areas - not the entire army.
But yes, huge numbers are dying and even more men are injured on the front lines and in the rear.
Ask your carer about how numbers work and how to understand what she reads to you. I'm sure she or he can explain with greater patience than we can.
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Ukrainian blokes abroad are now getting call-up papers and being told to return to Ukraine.
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Ukrainian blokes abroad are now getting call-up papers and being told to return to Ukraine.
Do you have a link to the above statement? The only information I can find, from early May of 2023 is the below. This is via Yahoo, with no background documentation, originally published by The New Voice of Ukraine.
“Can summonses be issued abroad or men deported?
Resolution No. 1487 does not provide for such an obligation as issuing summonses to conscripts, therefore no one issue or will issue them, while rumors about similar cases or situations are Russian disinformation.
“According to Ukrainian legislation, foreign diplomatic institutions cannot serve summonses,” the lawyer said.
“After all, a summons is a document that invites a person to a territorial recruiting center to clarify military data or undergo examination by a military medical commission.”
Zhukrovsky added that the deportation of conscripts to Ukraine has no legal basis, so Ukrainian diplomatic institutions cannot do it.”
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Do you have a link to the above statement? The only information I can find, from early May of 2023 is the below. This is via Yahoo, with no background documentation, originally published by The New Voice of Ukraine.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1075932278/ontslagen-oekraiense-defensieminister-liet-steken-vallen-in-strijd-tegen-corruptie-direct-actie-ondernomen
It seems this newspaper is also of opinion that Zelensky was elected by promising peace with donbass in 2019.
“Can summonses be issued abroad or men deported?
Resolution No. 1487 does not provide for such an obligation as issuing summonses to conscripts, therefore no one issue or will issue them, while rumors about similar cases or situations are Russian disinformation.
“According to Ukrainian legislation, foreign diplomatic institutions cannot serve summonses,” the lawyer said.
“After all, a summons is a document that invites a person to a territorial recruiting center to clarify military data or undergo examination by a military medical commission.”
Zhukrovsky added that the deportation of conscripts to Ukraine has no legal basis, so Ukrainian diplomatic institutions cannot do it.”
You are forgetting the criminal part of the law. Obtaining fake papers to avoid being drafted/conscripted is a crime under Ukrainian law. So they can easily ask <country> that Ukrainian man blahblahblah is suspect in serious crimes and we want him extradited back to Ukraine.
Netherlands would have no problems agreeing , as avoiding conscription with fake papers is equally criminal according to Dutch law. The only thing that might let them off the hook is if they ask asylum because their country is not 'safe' as a war is going on. However since neither Russia, nor Ukraine officially declared war, that argument goes nowhere.
Suppose that NL agrees: He can then also be hit with his conscription papers whilst in jail waiting for his trial.
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Do you have a link to the above statement? The only information I can find, from early May of 2023 is the below. This is via Yahoo, with no background documentation, originally published by The New Voice of Ukraine.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1075932278/ontslagen-oekraiense-defensieminister-liet-steken-vallen-in-strijd-tegen-corruptie-direct-actie-ondernomen
It seems this newspaper is also of opinion that Zelensky was elected by promising peace with donbass in 2019.
“Can summonses be issued abroad or men deported?
Resolution No. 1487 does not provide for such an obligation as issuing summonses to conscripts, therefore no one issue or will issue them, while rumors about similar cases or situations are Russian disinformation.
“According to Ukrainian legislation, foreign diplomatic institutions cannot serve summonses,” the lawyer said.
“After all, a summons is a document that invites a person to a territorial recruiting center to clarify military data or undergo examination by a military medical commission.”
Zhukrovsky added that the deportation of conscripts to Ukraine has no legal basis, so Ukrainian diplomatic institutions cannot do it.”
You are forgetting the criminal part of the law. Obtaining fake papers to avoid being drafted/conscripted is a crime under Ukrainian law. So they can easily ask <country> that Ukrainian man blahblahblah is suspect in serious crimes and we want him extradited back to Ukraine.
Netherlands would have no problems agreeing , as avoiding conscription with fake papers is equally criminal according to Dutch law. The only thing that might let them off the hook is if they ask asylum because their country is not 'safe' as a war is going on. However since neither Russia, nor Ukraine officially declared war, that argument goes nowhere.
Suppose that NL agrees: He can then also be hit with his conscription papers whilst in jail waiting for his trial.
Hi Manny2, the above words are not mine but from an article I referenced. I can understand the criminal aspects if the documents are forged. But if the ‘call up’ papers are being sent (mailed) one would assume the refugee information is current and correct.
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In order to not send Russian into battle, Russia is conscripting contractor send to Mariupol to rebuild the city into their armed forces.
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In order to not send Russian into battle, Russia is conscripting contractor send to Mariupol to rebuild the city into their armed forces.
Your posts make my eyes hurt. Is there any chance you can proof read what you type before posting? It doesn't need to be perfect but it would really help everyone understand what it is that you're trying to say. You might be dyslexic but I think you're just a lazy keyboard thumper and you just give everyone more work to do.
That gets me going before I even start deciphering the crap you post.
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In order to not send Russian into battle, Russia is conscripting contractor send to Mariupol to rebuild the city into their armed forces.
Your posts make my eyes hurt. Is there any chance you can proof read what you type before posting? It doesn't need to be perfect but it would really help everyone understand what it is that you're trying to say. You might be dyslexic but I think you're just a lazy keyboard thumper and you just give everyone more work to do.
That gets me going before I even start deciphering the crap you post.
Tex, I also am dyslexic. Andrewfi gave me an unmercifully time for the grammar and spelling I used. I realized one day that others spent too much time deciphering my posts and spent time on getting the posts more coherent.
Bear in mind at any given moment numerous lurkers are reading the threads; a degree of civility and reasonable grammar can attract new posters. Without doubt if I can manage (more or less) to post coherently you can do this. Please try!
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To be fair, at that time I was unaware that you were dyslexic.
That said, I believe that if one wishes to communicate that it is the responsibility of the communicator to ensure their message is composed in a way that does not confuse or bewilder the recipient.
I have a similar issue with mathematics. It took a lot of hard work and torment to attain the standards required during my maths heavy studies. Nobody owed me any favours in that regard and allowed no excuses.
My nephew has to live with dyslexia to such an extent that he was given extra time to complete his examinations in a way that enabled him to pass them. He ensures that he spends adequate time reading to understand and then writing so that his communication is clear.
The world is not a place of equality, we all have disadvantages and must overcome them in order to, as my nephew has done, succeed in his life and chosen meter.
So, to the extent that your written communication here, and I hope elsewhere, has improved, I'm glad to have provide some impetus to your self-development!
Sadly there are many people too lazy or simply unable to marshall their thoughts or facts needed to justify their opinions. The ormer deserve no support or excuses, the latter should either refrain from discourse above their level or get the support of those willing and able to help them - perhaps in terms of education or through paid support aides who can read and write on their behalf.
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Ukrainian blokes abroad are now getting call-up papers and being told to return to Ukraine.
Do you have a link to the above statement?
I don't have one to hand, there has been quite a lot on Twitter about it. I watched a video the other day of a bloke showing the camera the documents he received and explaining what it was. Seemed legit to me.
However, we don't know which countries will comply.
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Does anyone else see the rank hypocrisy of the west, when they ask, threaten and beg other countries not to arm Russia, whilst all the time pumping weapons into Ukraine to fight Russia ourselves? They use clever language and media manipulation to make it sound horrific when Russia's allies meet and potentially support Russia or one anther.
The way I see it, it is what it is. Just don't expect the entire world to support the western agenda, when it comes to our proxy war against Russia. Any passive threats or sanction will only mean that BRICS will gain traction so nobody can be bullied by the West anymore and countries like China, Russia, India, North Korea and Iran will step up the arms race, now they know that the US led NATO agenda is likely.
I find that it's always more productive and predictable over the long term, to train a dog and be kind, rather than beat it into submission, if you want to live happily in the same house.
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Does anyone see the blatant hypocrisy of the Chamberlain’s not complaining about the Russians invading another country.
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Does anyone else see the rank hypocrisy of the west, when they ask, threaten and beg other countries not to arm Russia, whilst all the time pumping weapons into Ukraine to fight Russia ourselves? They use clever language and media manipulation to make it sound horrific when Russia's allies meet and potentially support Russia or one anther.
The way I see it, it is what it is. Just don't expect the entire world to support the western agenda, when it comes to our proxy war against Russia. Any passive threats or sanction will only mean that BRICS will gain traction so nobody can be bullied by the West anymore and countries like China, Russia, India, North Korea and Iran will step up the arms race, now they know that the US led NATO agenda is likely.
I find that it's always more productive and predictable over the long term, to train a dog and be kind, rather than beat it into submission, if you want to live happily in the same house.
Russia attacked the Ukraine and can end the war at any time by just going home. So that is why most of the world helps Ukraine and not Russia.
Good happened last night, Russia's submarine was hit while in port and thought to be damaged. Russia used this vessel to carry out terrorist attacks against Ukraine and was hard for Ukraine to hit it because it is underwater. Now it is one more weapon Russia no longer has immediate available to use in the war. A large landing ship was hit also. Russia forced to stop offensive in Kharkov as they need to reinforce the southern front's second line. It seems a lot of first line defenders dead. A few days ago, Russia semiconductor plant also hit inside Russia. They made electronic part for the Russian military. The plant was hit two consecutive days. The second it was pretty much burned out. Ukraine has list of military equipment production plants they intend to target all over Russia. Since Ukraine can launch drones from inside Russia nothing in Russia is out of range now.
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I find that it's always more productive and predictable over the long term, to train a dog and be kind, rather than beat it into submission, if you want to live happily in the same house.
Does this mean the West should encourage countries to support Russia? Wouldn't that just make the situation worse?
Av - spot on!
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I find that it's always more productive and predictable over the long term, to train a dog and be kind, rather than beat it into submission, if you want to live happily in the same house.
Does this mean the West should encourage countries to support Russia? Wouldn't that just make the situation worse?
Av - spot on!
Uh no, it means we should not break our promises, offer ukraine nato membership or fund nazi organizations with weapons and money.
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Predictably the 3 blokes above choose to ignore literally everything that's been discussed regarding the conflict and most importantly, why Russia invaded Ukraine.
Get out of first gear and we can maybe have an interesting discussion chaps? This brain dead 18 month old low information stance you've adopted makes you look really stupid and you're just wasting folks time with those silly posts.
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So that is why most of the world helps Ukraine and not Russia.
Absolute lies. Are you intentionally lying or are you dense?
There are around 195 countries in the world and currently, 45 countries, companies and other parties are assisting Ukraine.
Now I know that Maths isnt your strong point as you've demonstrated regularly but would you say that this is most of the world or is it more like NATO?
:prophead:
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I find that it's always more productive and predictable over the long term, to train a dog and be kind, rather than beat it into submission, if you want to live happily in the same house.
Does this mean the West should encourage countries to support Russia? Wouldn't that just make the situation worse?
Av - spot on!
Uh no, it means we should not break our promises, offer ukraine nato membership or fund nazi organizations with weapons and money.
Don't bite Mark, the laggards are stuck in February 2022 at the very latest.
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Good happened last night, Russia's submarine was hit while in port and thought to be damaged. Russia used this vessel to carry out terrorist attacks against Ukraine and was hard for Ukraine to hit it because it is underwater. Now it is one more weapon Russia no longer has immediate available to use in the war. A large landing ship was hit also. Russia forced to stop offensive in Kharkov as they need to reinforce the southern front's second line. It seems a lot of first line defenders dead. A few days ago, Russia semiconductor plant also hit inside Russia. They made electronic part for the Russian military. The plant was hit two consecutive days. The second it was pretty much burned out. Ukraine has list of military equipment production plants they intend to target all over Russia. Since Ukraine can launch drones from inside Russia nothing in Russia is out of range now.
Good for you Tex, go crack open a can or two.
Meanwhile back in the real world, Ukraine have now lost around 70,000 men and shed loads of vehicles whilst still playing about in the defensive zone in front of the first lines of defence. They're literately not even fighting at the first line of defence yet.
Men are being arrested and exported out of Europe to the meat grinder, women are next and NATO is running out of ammunition and hardware.
Keep on clapping though Tex, evening though you're one of the idiots who is supporting the destruction of Ukraine and wiping out of a generation of young men. You're too busy shouting Putler or Nazi to have enough oxygen in your brain to consider the big picture.
There is no good news and a damaged submarine won't be stopping the Russians any time soon.
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Does this mean the West should encourage countries to support Russia? Wouldn't that just make the situation worse?
I think the west should stop chasing foreign policy that is designed to escalate tensions with our nominated enemies. But if said policy kicks off a conflict we had a large hand in starting and we start sending all our ammo and weapons to the fight, we shouldn't then get upset when said enemy trades with their allies to fight back.
After all, NATO/US is training, arming and strategically moving everything in the theatre. We've just employed the poor Ukrainians to pull the trigger for us.
Nasty.
Predictably the bonfire gets bigger and the likelihood of global polarisation becomes inevitable.
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I think we will start to see a multipolar world soon.
Europe/usa on one side, brics on the other. The non aligned countries will join brics more often in the future as its influence grows and the west fails to deliver on promises, or they are tired of the hooks and sinker tied to the help.
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I think we will start to see a multipolar world soon.
Europe/usa on one side, brics on the other. The non aligned countries will join brics more often in the future as its influence grows and the west fails to deliver on promises, or they are tired of the hooks and sinker tied to the help.
And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
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Good happened last night, Russia's submarine was hit while in port and thought to be damaged. Russia used this vessel to carry out terrorist attacks against Ukraine and was hard for Ukraine to hit it because it is underwater. Now it is one more weapon Russia no longer has immediate available to use in the war. A large landing ship was hit also. Russia forced to stop offensive in Kharkov as they need to reinforce the southern front's second line. It seems a lot of first line defenders dead. A few days ago, Russia semiconductor plant also hit inside Russia. They made electronic part for the Russian military. The plant was hit two consecutive days. The second it was pretty much burned out. Ukraine has list of military equipment production plants they intend to target all over Russia. Since Ukraine can launch drones from inside Russia nothing in Russia is out of range now.
Good for you Tex, go crack open a can or two.
Meanwhile back in the real world, Ukraine have now lost around 70,000 men and shed loads of vehicles whilst still playing about in the defensive zone in front of the first lines of defence. They're literately not even fighting at the first line of defence yet.
Men are being arrested and exported out of Europe to the meat grinder, women are next and NATO is running out of ammunition and hardware.
Keep on clapping though Tex, evening though you're one of the idiots who is supporting the destruction of Ukraine and wiping out of a generation of young men. You're too busy shouting Putler or Nazi to have enough oxygen in your brain to consider the big picture.
There is no good news and a damaged submarine won't be stopping the Russians any time soon.
The 70,000 is just what the high command is telling Putin. They never tell him the truth. If a general tells what is really happen in the war Putin replaces him. He might even have an accident. More Russian generals have had accidents since the beginning of the war than Ukraine has killed. So, no one tells Putin anything except what he wants to hear. Putin is so out of touch he thinks Ukraine is ready to negotiate soon. According to Russian propaganda everyone in Ukrainian army in dead two times over.
A generation of Young Russian and the country of Russia will never recover. You call me an idiot is a complement. I just look at the source.
men, ammunition and hardware. You think Russia is doing better? Then why are losing ground. Winter will come. All these trenches Russia dug will fill up with water. Then that water will form a thin layer of ice on it. Russian will have to live day and night in the water. More of them are likely to die from the cold than the war. Russia never counts them as war dead. Russians make up for the harsh conditions by getting drunk. That makes it even worse. Count on very many dead Russian this winter while Russia says it has no war losses.
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I think we will start to see a multipolar world soon.
Europe/usa on one side, brics on the other. The non aligned countries will join brics more often in the future as its influence grows and the west fails to deliver on promises, or they are tired of the hooks and sinker tied to the help.
And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
That is why Russia has so much over whelming support during this war.
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Does anyone else see the rank hypocrisy of the west, when they ask, threaten and beg other countries not to arm Russia, whilst all the time pumping weapons into Ukraine to fight Russia ourselves? They use clever language and media manipulation to make it sound horrific when Russia's allies meet and potentially support Russia or one anther.
The way I see it, it is what it is. Just don't expect the entire world to support the western agenda, when it comes to our proxy war against Russia. Any passive threats or sanction will only mean that BRICS will gain traction so nobody can be bullied by the West anymore and countries like China, Russia, India, North Korea and Iran will step up the arms race, now they know that the US led NATO agenda is likely.
I find that it's always more productive and predictable over the long term, to train a dog and be kind, rather than beat it into submission, if you want to live happily in the same house.
Russia attacked the Ukraine and can end the war at any time by just going home. So that is why most of the world helps Ukraine and not Russia.
Good happened last night, Russia's submarine was hit while in port and thought to be damaged. Russia used this vessel to carry out terrorist attacks against Ukraine and was hard for Ukraine to hit it because it is underwater. Now it is one more weapon Russia no longer has immediate available to use in the war. A large landing ship was hit also. Russia forced to stop offensive in Kharkov as they need to reinforce the southern front's second line. It seems a lot of first line defenders dead. A few days ago, Russia semiconductor plant also hit inside Russia. They made electronic part for the Russian military. The plant was hit two consecutive days. The second it was pretty much burned out. Ukraine has list of military equipment production plants they intend to target all over Russia. Since Ukraine can launch drones from inside Russia nothing in Russia is out of range now.
The below is what Tex refers to. I wish there were some independent source.
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And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Who is the vast majority of the developing world? Which "many countries" are you referring to? The fact that a few countries wave the Russian flag when Wagner is in town doesn't mean anything. The US gives over 35 billion to developing countries every year, how much does Russia give?
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I think we will start to see a multipolar world soon.
Europe/usa on one side, brics on the other. The non aligned countries will join brics more often in the future as its influence grows and the west fails to deliver on promises, or they are tired of the hooks and sinker tied to the help.
And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Apparently the consensus taken from the recent G20 summit supports your view. There has been a looming departure by the larger G20 from the US-driven G7 anti-Russia tone.
Yes, the greater world beyond simply doesn’t buy the US orchestrated ‘Russian aggression’ any longer. Most stand behind an opposite opinion these days.
Matter of fact, even within the US population, the majority of Americans now oppose continuing aid to Ukraine.
This sentiment is growing all over. This US-initiated conflict needs to stop.
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And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Who is the vast majority of the developing world? Which "many countries" are you referring to? The fact that a few countries wave the Russian flag when Wagner is in town doesn't mean anything. The US gives over 35 billion to developing countries every year, how much does Russia give?
Been paying attention? I suppose following the news of the latest brics meeting in south africa.
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The 70,000 is just what the high command is telling Putin.
Nope, that figure is lower than the one being quoted by Putin but is fairly accurate according to a number of credible analysts. This number includes all losses along the full front since the counter offensive began but many have been lost in the south as they push for a break through towards the Sea of Azov.
Like I said, Ukraine have been getting smashed in the the frontal defensive zone and they haven't even breached the first line of defence anywhere. All these gains are on open fields and meadows where the Russians have allowed it.
men, ammunition and hardware. You think Russia is doing better? Then why are losing ground. Winter will come. All these trenches Russia dug will fill up with water. Then that water will form a thin layer of ice on it. Russian will have to live day and night in the water. More of them are likely to die from the cold than the war. Russia never counts them as war dead. Russians make up for the harsh conditions by getting drunk. That makes it even worse. Count on very many dead Russian this winter while Russia says it has no war losses.
Like I said, you're a brain dead idiot.
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I think we will start to see a multipolar world soon.
Europe/usa on one side, brics on the other. The non aligned countries will join brics more often in the future as its influence grows and the west fails to deliver on promises, or they are tired of the hooks and sinker tied to the help.
And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
That is why Russia has so much over whelming support during this war.
You can tell you're American. The country where world news covers North America, the World Series only has US/Canadian teams and it's illegal to teach geography.
Enjoy Yahoo news followed by a bit of MSNBC. They'll tell you how badly Russia are losing and how the Ukrainians are winning, minus all the dead men.
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And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Who is the vast majority of the developing world? Which "many countries" are you referring to? The fact that a few countries wave the Russian flag when Wagner is in town doesn't mean anything. The US gives over 35 billion to developing countries every year, how much does Russia give?
I think you might want to watch a few more tv channels and do some research mhr7, it'll greatly enhance your understanding of the world. You might see the conflict for what it really is and possibly show you what your beloved Democrats are all about?
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Apparently the consensus taken from the recent G20 summit supports your view. There has been a looming departure by the larger G20 from the US-driven G7 anti-Russia tone.
Yes, the greater world beyond simply doesn’t buy the US orchestrated ‘Russian aggression’ any longer. Most stand behind an opposite opinion these days.
This sentiment is growing all over. This US-initiated conflict needs to stop.
Thanks for posting that video and yes, that was exactly what I was alluding too.
Now we know Creepy Joe loves a faux pas but did you hear the bumbling idiot in Hanoi before being cut off by his own people? He called the world outside the G7, the 3rd world........then southern hemisphere.
And you wonder where the arrogance of the Dems and the anger from the disrespected non Western nations comes from. Meanwhile Tex and mhr7 think that it's only a handful of random Africans supporting Wagner who aren't on board with the proxy war.
:'(
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The 3rd world.....eeehhh.....southern Hemisphere......ehhhh.........time for bed you creepy old raptor.
:ROFL:
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And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Who is the vast majority of the developing world? Which "many countries" are you referring to? The fact that a few countries wave the Russian flag when Wagner is in town doesn't mean anything. The US gives over 35 billion to developing countries every year, how much does Russia give?
I think you might want to watch a few more tv channels and do some research mhr7, it'll greatly enhance your understanding of the world. You might see the conflict for what it really is and possibly show you what your beloved Democrats are all about?
I've done the research. Your assertions don't stand on solid ground. You've just side-stepped the question.
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And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Who is the vast majority of the developing world? Which "many countries" are you referring to? The fact that a few countries wave the Russian flag when Wagner is in town doesn't mean anything. The US gives over 35 billion to developing countries every year, how much does Russia give?
I think you might want to watch a few more tv channels and do some research mhr7, it'll greatly enhance your understanding of the world. You might see the conflict for what it really is and possibly show you what your beloved Democrats are all about?
I've done the research. Your assertions don't stand on solid ground. You've just side-stepped the question.
You haven't watched the news or done you're research or you would never have told Rosco that he sidestepped the question. You'd know the truth.
BRICS for instance has accepted 7!!!! new members in its midst, mostly south-american and african countries.
(Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have all become members of BRICS)
In terms of purchasing power, BRICS is now larger than the G7. But please keep your head in the sand.
Meanwhile other african countries are tired of their 'Western' overlords and are in a bloody civil war to break free, much to the chagrin of France (who controls lots of them).
Meanwhile: China has just released a new smartphone using their own technology thats just 1 year behind the USA's newest 3Nano chip technology (China's is 7Nano) meaning they too, are breaking free of sanctions just like Russia is.
The specs and performance of the Huawei Mate-60 are looking quite on par with Samsung/Apple's counterparts.
Enough of a start for you ? Need more ?
I am all of course very worried by current affairs, it shows the west is not just "declining" in world influence, but declining FAST
Worred, cause I live in the west and I like my life and we are squandering goodwill and power on a massive scale now.
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You haven't watched the news or done you're research or you would never have told Rosco that he sidestepped the question. You'd know the truth.
BRICS for instance has accepted 7!!!! new members in its midst, mostly south-american and african countries.
(Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have all become members of BRICS)
In terms of purchasing power, BRICS is now larger than the G7. But please keep your head in the sand.
Meanwhile other african countries are tired of their 'Western' overlords and are in a bloody civil war to break free, much to the chagrin of France (who controls lots of them).
Meanwhile: China has just released a new smartphone using their own technology thats just 1 year behind the USA's newest 3Nano chip technology (China's is 7Nano) meaning they too, are breaking free of sanctions just like Russia is.
The specs and performance of the Huawei Mate-60 are looking quite on par with Samsung/Apple's counterparts.
Enough of a start for you ? Need more ?
I am all of course very worried by current affairs, it shows the west is not just "declining" in world influence, but declining FAST
Worred, cause I live in the west and I like my life and we are squandering goodwill and power on a massive scale now.
The trouble is the handwriting is on the wall. The USA will not be importing much very much longer. Neither will Europe. So, countries do what they can. The problem is the Brics countries will also not buy much neither and everyone will want to sell. It is a problem cause by aging populations. Look for world economic crisis that few will escape.
Part of the power of the west is we bought so much. When we no longer do that countries do not have as many reasons to trade with us or be our ally. But do not think this is a coming boom in Russia or China. Russia had to invade Ukraine now if they were going to. They are simply going to run out of young men and not caused by this war or anything the west is doing or has done. China's population like peaked in around 2000 and have over counted young people by more than a 100 million. The problem is not with the Chinese national government but rather with the states wanted to look good to the national government and reporting more births than what really happened. China supports a number of countries by buying from them. These countries would want to join Brics. Then China sells to the west and other places. They trouble is it the west quit buying then China buys less raw material from African and South American countries who then buy less from China. It does not look good anyplace.
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And rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of the developing world see the west as aging colonialists who still try to control the world, play the global policeman and instigate regime change as we see fit. Plundering weaker countries to feed the machine.
I can see why many countries now see this conflict as Russia fighting western imperialism and it's easy for them to choose a side, particularly given what the west has done around the globe in recent years.
There's no doubt this is a discussion well beyond the comprehension of the Putler mob and the propaganda works well to keep them in line.
Who is the vast majority of the developing world? Which "many countries" are you referring to? The fact that a few countries wave the Russian flag when Wagner is in town doesn't mean anything. The US gives over 35 billion to developing countries every year, how much does Russia give?
I think you might want to watch a few more tv channels and do some research mhr7, it'll greatly enhance your understanding of the world. You might see the conflict for what it really is and possibly show you what your beloved Democrats are all about?
I've done the research. Your assertions don't stand on solid ground. You've just side-stepped the question.
You haven't watched the news or done you're research or you would never have told Rosco that he sidestepped the question. You'd know the truth.
BRICS for instance has accepted 7!!!! new members in its midst, mostly south-american and african countries.
(Argentina, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have all become members of BRICS)
In terms of purchasing power, BRICS is now larger than the G7. But please keep your head in the sand.
Meanwhile other african countries are tired of their 'Western' overlords and are in a bloody civil war to break free, much to the chagrin of France (who controls lots of them).
Meanwhile: China has just released a new smartphone using their own technology thats just 1 year behind the USA's newest 3Nano chip technology (China's is 7Nano) meaning they too, are breaking free of sanctions just like Russia is.
The specs and performance of the Huawei Mate-60 are looking quite on par with Samsung/Apple's counterparts.
Enough of a start for you ? Need more ?
I am all of course very worried by current affairs, it shows the west is not just "declining" in world influence, but declining FAST
Worred, cause I live in the west and I like my life and we are squandering goodwill and power on a massive scale now.
Several members of BRICS condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it is not a tight organization. PPP is only one metric and not the best metric. Look at GDP for a more accurate measure of a country's wealth and you'll see that the GDP of the G7 is much higher than that of BRICS. What do cell phones have to do with anything? A few African countries have rebelled against their governments? What else is new? Same shit different day.
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We spoke earlier about all the Ukrainian blokes in the EU, being issued with papers and forcibly retuned to the fight, without their consent. Men in Ukraine hiding in their houses and avoiding road blocks where they will be kidnapped by recruiters. Well here's a video of a disabled bloke at a recruitment centre and his mum is understandably outraged given he's classed as 3rd degree disabled.
Really sad if true and maybe someone with a more native tongue can translate it accurately? Ukraine are running out of men to send to the front and personally, I dont think enough people (particularly in positions of power) are outraged with what is happening. If you want to sign up to fight then fair enough but where's the humanity, where's the human rights when boys, old men and disabled people are forced to die for Zelensky and NATO?
Truly sad.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7276349850529123616
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Several members of BRICS condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it is not a tight organization. PPP is only one metric and not the best metric. Look at GDP for a more accurate measure of a country's wealth and you'll see that the GDP of the G7 is much higher than that of BRICS. What do cell phones have to do with anything? A few African countries have rebelled against their governments? What else is new? Same shit different day.
You're not seeing the big picture, you're only seeing a single tree fall and not worried about deforestation despite the hundreds falling around you.
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Several members of BRICS condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it is not a tight organization. PPP is only one metric and not the best metric. Look at GDP for a more accurate measure of a country's wealth and you'll see that the GDP of the G7 is much higher than that of BRICS. What do cell phones have to do with anything? A few African countries have rebelled against their governments? What else is new? Same shit different day.
You're not seeing the big picture, you're only seeing a single tree fall and not worried about deforestation despite the hundreds falling around you.
Gee that sounds pretty, Now trying to say something. It is just a trade group. You been so excited about China's growth which pretty much has come to an end. These countries sell China raw materials. So, they join a trade group with China in it. Indian is a Chinese competitor. They are currently at war with each other. It is not like the a tight nit group. Yes, this is cause by the west buying less raw material from Africa and south America and China buying more. But economies are getting ready to implode everywhere as developed nations have not had enough children for decades now. This includes all of Europe, Asia and the USA. Even some Latin and south American counties are also beginning to have this problem. Humans are a species in decline.
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Several members of BRICS condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it is not a tight organization. PPP is only one metric and not the best metric. Look at GDP for a more accurate measure of a country's wealth and you'll see that the GDP of the G7 is much higher than that of BRICS. What do cell phones have to do with anything? A few African countries have rebelled against their governments? What else is new? Same shit different day.
You're not seeing the big picture, you're only seeing a single tree fall and not worried about deforestation despite the hundreds falling around you.
Gee that sounds pretty, Now trying to say something. It is just a trade group. You been so excited about China's growth which pretty much has come to an end. These countries sell China raw materials. So, they join a trade group with China in it. Indian is a Chinese competitor. They are currently at war with each other. It is not like the a tight nit group. Yes, this is cause by the west buying less raw material from Africa and south America and China buying more. But economies are getting ready to implode everywhere as developed nations have not had enough children for decades now. This includes all of Europe, Asia and the USA. Even some Latin and south American counties are also beginning to have this problem. Humans are a species in decline.
Tex, they now have a collective reason to stick together and make each other stronger whilst weakening or marginalising the west. You tell us that India and China are at war with each other but both of them will be under the microscope when the US moves on from Russia. There's already been chat about this and links supplied at this very forum, for you to read and learn. They're sick of colonialism and imperialism.
You've told us that they all just sell stuff and that they'll all become weaker but that's just pure fantasy. Each of them have their own strengths and weaknesses and if they can deal with each other, not using the dollar and cut the west out of the profit, then they make quite a club.....an ever expanding club at that too.
It might be smallish beer today in terms of GDP but with the emerging economies, the populations, the wealth and the natural resources, they are no longer bound by sanctions or what the US tells them to do. We can no longer restrict our competitors or dictate to them and this is exactly why they're all joining forces - the common enemy.
The only species in decline is you I'm afraid. Asia, Africa and South America has plenty to offer, regardless of what goes on in your empty head. I believe the next step for them, will be to form a defence alliance, in order to stop regime change and invasion from the west. Watch this space.
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Tex, they now have a collective reason to stick together and make each other stronger whilst weakening or marginalising the west. You tell us that India and China are at war with each other but both of them will be under the microscope when the US moves on from Russia. There's already been chat about this and links supplied at this very forum, for you to read and learn. They're sick of colonialism and imperialism.
You've told us that they all just sell stuff and that they'll all become weaker but that's just pure fantasy. Each of them have their own strengths and weaknesses and if they can deal with each other, not using the dollar and cut the west out of the profit, then they make quite a club.....an ever expanding club at that too.
It might be smallish beer today in terms of GDP but with the emerging economies, the populations, the wealth and the natural resources, they are no longer bound by sanctions or what the US tells them to do. We can no longer restrict our competitors or dictate to them and this is exactly why they're all joining forces - the common enemy.
The only species in decline is you I'm afraid. Asia, Africa and South America has plenty to offer, regardless of what goes on in your empty head. I believe the next step for them, will be to form a defence alliance, in order to stop regime change and invasion from the west. Watch this space.
China and India are at a state of declared war for many years. It is not me saying that it is a fact. They do not get a long at all and often shoot at each other. Indian and Russia became partners because of the China threat in military equipment production. Indian money with Russia technology so they could share the weapons. You really do not know anything about the world. Russia is not completing its share of the military contracts, so India is planning to do less of this in the future. Recent map China just claimed an island of Russia's.
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You really do not know anything about the world.
That gave me a belly laugh :ROFL:
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China and India are at a state of declared war for many years. It is not me saying that it is a fact.
NO it is you saying that. They may not be best of friends, but they don't mind working with each other when it is mutually beneficial. They both work with Russia and seem to be friendly with Russia. It is the US that is the odd man out for now. We aren't bringing as much to the table nowadays. We should probably focus more improving on that than trying to fan flames with these countries. Our act is well rehearsed but is no longer very effective. If we aren't bringing resources, or products to the table, our use is limited...and that seems to be the direction we are heading.
Jonas!
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China and India are at a state of declared war for many years. It is not me saying that it is a fact.
NO it is you saying that. They may not be best of friends, but they don't mind working with each other when it is mutually beneficial. They both work with Russia and seem to be friendly with Russia. It is the US that is the odd man out for now. We aren't bringing as much to the table nowadays. We should probably focus more improving on that than trying to fan flames with these countries. Our act is well rehearsed but is no longer very effective. If we aren't bringing resources, or products to the table, our use is limited...and that seems to be the direction we are heading.
Jonas!
India and China working together in extremely limited. China works more with Russia out wanting to control Russia. China does not want Russia to lose too badly as it would increase influence of the USA, so they helps prop up the Russian economy. China does not want Russia to be a big winner neither as this would increase Russian influence. This dependance make Russia a puppet state of China which Chinese have already started to collect on. China would like the war to end as this would help its worldwide trade and is upset with Putin for starting it. They were guaranteed the war would not last long and would not cause any one a problem.
China wants to dam up Indian's rivers and destroy the Indian economy. India is China's second biggest threat as the Indian economy is growing faster than the Chinese and India has a younger population. The Indian economy will likely pass up China in years to come. China is very unhappy about this concept. They are military rivels where the main focus of the Indian military to defend against China. They are at a state of war where China is constantly wanted to lay claim Indian territory. China does what it can to try to destroy the Indian economy.
India wanted military hardware from Russia before now. Now Indian is mainly looking for cheap oil but they are really upset with Russia over the war as the war is hurting the Indian economy. Russia wanted a defense pack with India to balance out the Chinese threat. Indian is finding Russia not worth much as a military partner and is pulling away from the idea and is no longer wanting to fund Russian weapon research. India does not care what happens to Russia in the Ukraine war. They are only looking out what is good for India. Cheap oil good for India.
Both China and India will work with Russia on a limited basics, but they do not work much with each other. Please tell me what China and India are working together? This BRICS currency is the only place I know of. It is not expected to go anyplace because China would have too much control of it and most nations that are part of it are more afraid of China than the USA.
The pro-Russian guys think there is the USA and the rest of the world like the planet is divided into two parts. You get this from Russia propaganda where they talk about a bipolar world. it is a lot more complex than that.
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China and India are at a state of declared war for many years. It is not me saying that it is a fact.
NO it is you saying that. They may not be best of friends, but they don't mind working with each other when it is mutually beneficial. They both work with Russia and seem to be friendly with Russia. It is the US that is the odd man out for now. We aren't bringing as much to the table nowadays. We should probably focus more improving on that than trying to fan flames with these countries. Our act is well rehearsed but is no longer very effective. If we aren't bringing resources, or products to the table, our use is limited...and that seems to be the direction we are heading.
Jonas!
India and China working together in extremely limited. China works more with Russia out wanting to control Russia. China does not want Russia to lose too badly as it would increase influence of the USA, so they helps prop up the Russian economy. China does not want Russia to be a big winner neither as this would increase Russian influence. This dependance make Russia a puppet state of China which Chinese have already started to collect on. China would like the war to end as this would help its worldwide trade and is upset with Putin for starting it. They were guaranteed the war would not last long and would not cause any one a problem.
China wants to dam up Indian's rivers and destroy the Indian economy. India is China's second biggest threat as the Indian economy is growing faster than the Chinese and India has a younger population. The Indian economy will likely pass up China in years to come. China is very unhappy about this concept. They are military rivels where the main focus of the Indian military to defend against China. They are at a state of war where China is constantly wanted to lay claim Indian territory. China does what it can to try to destroy the Indian economy.
India wanted military hardware from Russia before now. Now Indian is mainly looking for cheap oil but they are really upset with Russia over the war as the war is hurting the Indian economy. Russia wanted a defense pack with India to balance out the Chinese threat. Indian is finding Russia not worth much as a military partner and is pulling away from the idea and is no longer wanting to fund Russian weapon research. India does not care what happens to Russia in the Ukraine war. They are only looking out what is good for India. Cheap oil good for India.
Both China and India will work with Russia on a limited basics, but they do not work much with each other. Please tell me what China and India are working together? This BRICS currency is the only place I know of. It is not expected to go anyplace because China would have too much control of it and most nations that are part of it are more afraid of China than the USA.
The pro-Russian guys think there is the USA and the rest of the world like the planet is divided into two parts. You get this from Russia propaganda where they talk about a bipolar world. it is a lot more complex than that.
You spent paragraphs characterizing how 'upset' China and India are over this and that. I believe that is a case of a US citizen hoping against hope. We are quickly becoming the common enemy of China/Russia/India. The US is 'upset' and "Angry" that India is buying so much Russian oil and ruining the sanctions campaign.
Jonas!
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You spent paragraphs characterizing how 'upset' China and India are over this and that. I believe that is a case of a US citizen hoping against hope. We are quickly becoming the common enemy of China/Russia/India. The US is 'upset' and "Angry" that India is buying so much Russian oil and ruining the sanctions campaign.
Jonas!
And growing largely due to insane transgression our politicians unleash upon anyone any time, anywhere.
WWII literally halted the European colonial hold in world. Whether by design or otherwise, via the Atlantic Charter signed over the named ocean, had made the US overload over all colonial territories by nations at war (in anticipation of their respective projected inabilities once the war is over.
This made the US as rich and as powerful it is today. Think ‘mafia’, think ‘roof’.
The Soviet Republic, the real victors of WW II, which included Ukraine btw, had other ideas. Thus, the world lived through a divided existence during the Cold War era. It still continues today albeit in a different state.
The geo-manipulation we are witnessing in Ukraine, along with the struggle in nations in Africa, and yes still in the Balkans ( did you know we just deployed about 800 US troops in Kosovo again this year?); proves the struggle for power and colonial territories without due regards to the bloody expense of its citizenries are ongoing everywhere.
Alliances continue to shift in our lifetime. Make no mistake it will inevitably reach another boiling point likely in the worse way that we lived through before.
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And growing largely due to insane transgression our politicians unleash upon anyone any time, anywhere.
Hola old boy!
Our largely unchecked power is becoming more checked and that is 'upsetting' (To use Tex's word) people in the US. I believe the reason it is, is because we are no longer able to compete very well in 2023. Nations such as China have more abilities/infrastructure than ever, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves for being so lax with ourselves. Instead of doing a better job of growing our own abilities we continue to try to set up roadblocks for other nations. We grew fat and happy long ago, but it can't last forever, and I think we are seeing the end come little by little. The world should be concerned about what lengths we are willing to go to hold on to our overseas hegemonic interests. Hundreds of worldwide military instillations aren't there for nothing. When I read about our depriving nations such as Syria of their own resources, I imagine it makes many others blood boil,...and rightfully so.
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And growing largely due to insane transgression our politicians unleash upon anyone any time, anywhere.
Hola old boy!
Our largely unchecked power is becoming more checked and that is 'upsetting' (To use Tex's word) people in the US. I believe the reason it is, is because we are no longer able to compete very well in 2023. Nations such as China have more abilities/infrastructure than ever, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves for being so lax with ourselves. Instead of doing a better job of growing our own abilities we continue to try to set up roadblocks for other nations. We grew fat and happy long ago, but it can't last forever, and I think we are seeing the end come little by little. The world should be concerned about what lengths we are willing to go to hold on to our overseas hegemonic interests. Hundreds of worldwide military instillations aren't there for nothing. When I read about our depriving nations such as Syria of their own resources, I imagine it makes many others blood boil,...and rightfully so.
Mexico exports more into the USA than China. China trade advantages are going away as labor and shipping cost go up with corruption raising the cost of doing business. Now the robots have been improved more making it cost effect to build in the USA. Labor intense items will come from Mexico and possibly central America which is an un taped labor source. It just takes years to move factories, but the trend is well underway.
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Mexico exports more into the USA than China. China trade advantages are going away as labor and shipping cost go up with corruption raising the cost of doing business. Now the robots have been improved more making it cost effect to build in the USA. Labor intense items will come from Mexico and possibly central America which is an un taped labor source. It just takes years to move factories, but the trend is well underway.
NO Mexico does not export more to the US than China. Reread your link if you have one. US imports more from China than any other nation.
Mexico and China are very friendly...and that 'Upsets' the US.
Mexico imports around 100 billion from China...and eventually I'd suspect some of it winds up here in the USA.
If Desantis were the barometer it would not be long before the US decides to infringe on Mexican sovereignty.
If Mexico continues to improve its standing, eventually the US will try to hamstring them in some way.
Overall, it would be jolly good if the Latin American companies could export more goods and expand their wealth. Of course, for the moment we are taking in a lot of their workers and as a group they are most likely the hardest workers in our workforce.
Jonas!
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This is for July 2023 and pervious is for June 2023. This is the newest data I can find. Total trading volume China is now third if you do not count the EU as a single country which would make it fourth. This is one of the things Trump did right was to put us on the path to this. Both Canada and Mexico have more trade volume with the USA than China. Total export to the USA Mexico is now number one if you do not count the EU as a single country.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports
[attachimg=1]
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This is for July 2023 and pervious is for June 2023. This is the newest data I can find. Total trading volume China is now third if you do not count the EU as a single country which would make it fourth. This is one of the things Trump did right was to put us on the path to this. Both Canada and Mexico have more trade volume with the USA than China. Total export to the USA Mexico is now number one if you do not count the EU as a single country.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports
(Attachment Link)
It tallied by year and China is leading the way in 2023...despite the tariffs/obstacles.
We run huge deficits with China. China runs surpluses of 70 billion a month worldwide...year after year.
https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=yfp-t&fp=1&ei=UTF-8&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Aw%2Cm%3Ars-algo%2Cct%3Agossip&p=what%20country%20imports%20the%20most%20products%20to%20the%20us%202023%20year (https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=yfp-t&fp=1&ei=UTF-8&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Aw%2Cm%3Ars-algo%2Cct%3Agossip&p=what%20country%20imports%20the%20most%20products%20to%20the%20us%202023%20year)
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That was last year 2022. This year 2023 Mexico is exporting more to the USA than China.
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That was last year 2022. This year 2023 Mexico is exporting more to the USA than China.
You are incorrect but there will be no convincing you otherwise. At the end of 2023 there will be updated charts and then you will see that China imported the most into the US...and can revise your statement then. Going forward soon other nations like Mexico may well pass China, although it is China that imported some of the goods into Mexico first and they can then ship them to the US. In addition, China moves very nimbly and has facilities in neighboring countries, so although officially the import may come from Vietnam, it is actually China that is in the profit loop.
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Mexico exports to the USA are improving by 12 per cent per year. US companies are moving productions lines from China to Mexico. Also, Chinese companies are moving to Mexico to assemble their products with parts being made all over the world. What you call made in China is usually only assembled in China. Look at the link below as it is about Chinese companies moving to Mexico.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/business/china-mexico-trade.html
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Here's a video where a guy shows us footage of the Ukrainian recruiters trying to break into his brothers house and hiding to ambush him, if he tries runs. Two or three cars turn up with about 8 blokes to detain 1 man at home. Things are getting really desperate.
Our media remains silent as Ukrainian men are being jumped, threatened and forced to die on the front, against their will.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7278953504230706464?q=diary%20of%20nomad&t=1695053755928
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This must be one of the more ridiculous storied coming out of Ukraine along with that tranny bloke who's the spokesperson. Rustem Umerov is the newly appointed defence minister following the latest round of sackings over corruption. However, he's got quite a history and his new responsibilities makes for funny reading.
Rustem Umerov has some masterbation videos doing the rounds where he's jacking off naked in front of ladies. Well he's now been put in charge of recruiting women into the Ukrainian military. :chuckle: There's some truly awful stuff happening over there but the western media seems to be sticking its head in the sand.
What's next I wonder.....
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7279732757842955552?q=the%20real%20truth%2062&t=1695054893193
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Here's a video of some Ukrainian bloke furiously lecturing European politicians and demanding more funds be sent and more restrictions placed on Russia. He's particularly upset at the Hungarians until he's put down with quite an epic response.
"The Hungarian people are not responsible for this war, so the Hungarian people wont pay the price for this war." :party0031:
Hungary are one of the few countries in the EU to still have a backbone.
https://www.tiktok.com/@bingfabb00/video/7279612698680134945?q=Bingqiao&t=1695055511666
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That's likely due to ethnic-Hungarians in west Ukraine (as do the 'Magyars' in the south-easterly end of Slovakia - Kosice), whose 'minority' language was under the threat of getting banned after the coup.
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Here's a video of some Ukrainian bloke furiously lecturing European politicians and demanding more funds be sent and more restrictions placed on Russia. He's particularly upset at the Hungarians until he's put down with quite an epic response.
"The Hungarian people are not responsible for this war, so the Hungarian people wont pay the price for this war." :party0031:
Hungary are one of the few countries in the EU to still have a backbone.
https://www.tiktok.com/@bingfabb00/video/7279612698680134945?q=Bingqiao&t=1695055511666
Hungry has a dictator who like to stay in power. So they support dictators. Sort of like Belarus.
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Here's a video of some Ukrainian bloke furiously lecturing European politicians and demanding more funds be sent and more restrictions placed on Russia. He's particularly upset at the Hungarians until he's put down with quite an epic response.
"The Hungarian people are not responsible for this war, so the Hungarian people wont pay the price for this war." :party0031:
Hungary are one of the few countries in the EU to still have a backbone.
https://www.tiktok.com/@bingfabb00/video/7279612698680134945?q=Bingqiao&t=1695055511666
Hungry has a dictator who like to stay in power. So they support dictators. Sort of like Belarus.
:prophead:
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A Ukrainian official has admitted that for every 100 soldiers mobilised a year ago, only around 20 remain alive today. 80% of those mobilised by Ukraine are now dead.
The sad facts ignored by many.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7280225565703982369
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Like I said 90 per cent of all the Ukraine army dies in Bakhmut and ninety per cent have dies in the southern offensive and Russia still cannot win hold the line. What is sad is no one see how many Russians are dying. It is a big state secrete and Russia very short of manpower continue losing ground. There was a village you show a picture of stating how little Ukraine got they liberated it. What they did not tell you in Russian propaganda it the thousand strong Russian brigade was wiped out defending that village because Russia did not have any artillery to support them. Then the counterattack was also wiper out because once again no artillery. Ukrainian artillery wiped them out with almost no Ukrainian losses. Russia just cannot afford the war, so it soldiers just die for nothing. Putin goes to North Korea begging for artillery shells.
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A Ukrainian official has admitted that for every 100 soldiers mobilised a year ago, only around 20 remain alive today. 80% of those mobilised by Ukraine are now dead.
The sad facts ignored by many.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7280225565703982369
Interesting reading the comments below this video...the consensus on the stupidity of this conflict is fast becoming crystal clear as this war rages on.
Makes one wonder if Zelensky can sleep well at nights knowing he had a golden opportunity to have avoided all these fatalities and carnage and piss@d it all away. No amount of $$ can ever be worth this much nightmare on the youth and people of Ukraine....
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A Ukrainian official has admitted that for every 100 soldiers mobilised a year ago, only around 20 remain alive today. 80% of those mobilised by Ukraine are now dead.
The sad facts ignored by many.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7280225565703982369
Interesting reading the comments below this video...the consensus on the stupidity of this conflict is fast becoming crystal clear as this war rages on.
Makes one wonder if Zelensky can sleep well at nights knowing he had a golden opportunity to have avoided all these fatalities and carnage and piss@d it all away. No amount of $$ can ever be worth this much nightmare on the youth and people of Ukraine....
seems more people in the US are waking up and deciding too much money has been wasted. 100 billion or so and asking for another 70 billion this month. I'm curious to see if it gets voted down. I think they are trying to attach it to a much larger spending bill...
Ukrainians aren't US citizenry, so when biden says 'putting money in their pockets' and funds their pensions with borrowed money it just seems like a giant misallocation of funds. We won't be able to outdo Russia in Ukraine, but if somehow, we did, they can just use their weapons of mass destruction and leave more of the country in never-ending ruins, and I have little doubt that they would.
Meanwhile gas prices around $6 a gallon again in CA and I've never paid more for a 10-pound bag of potatoes.
Jonas!
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Like I said 90 per cent of all the Ukraine army dies in Bakhmut and ninety per cent have dies in the southern offensive and Russia still cannot win hold the line.
But they are Tex, the Surovikin line hasn't been breached and all the fighting has been in the grey zone, also known as the forward defensive zone. We know this is true because satellite immegary shows us the defensive lines and the villages forward of those positions. Russia have set up to defend against the counter attack for this phase of the conflict and they seem happy to do so. The most accurate estimate puts Ukrainian losses somewhere between 9-14 for every Russian loss. Russia can wait this out.
What is sad is no one see how many Russians are dying. It is a big state secrete and Russia very short of manpower continue losing ground.
That's also not true and even Russia admits that men are dying, defending the lines. Thery just aren't dying in the same numbers as the Ukrainians, during this phase.
There was a village you show a picture of stating how little Ukraine got they liberated it. What they did not tell you in Russian propaganda it the thousand strong Russian brigade was wiped out defending that village because Russia did not have any artillery to support them. Then the counterattack was also wiper out because once again no artillery. Ukrainian artillery wiped them out with almost no Ukrainian losses. Russia just cannot afford the war, so it soldiers just die for nothing. Putin goes to North Korea begging for artillery shells.
Congratulations, you got the hat trick and you're wrong again.
Andriivka is a village in the forward defensive zone, like many of the other ones where the fiercest fighting is being held. So far Ukraine has claimed to have liberated 3 of them, yes 3 tiny villages (from the whole front) which are now flattened and useless from a strategic POV.
Yes Russians have died fighting in them but you appear to misunderstand what's going on. The summer offensive is called so because the Ukrainians are on the offensive. They're trying to reach the first lines of defence, breach it and then pour through to split the Russian forces. Russia on the other hand set up the defensive lines intentionally and the locations were chosen to give them a strategic advantage.
The Ukrainians are attacking from vast flat open spaces and can be seen from miles away, hence the high losses. Artillery, attack helicopters, fighter bombers, attack drones and lancets have been picking off the Ukrainians as they drive forward in the open plains. The ones who make is close enough, end up fighting small Russian units in these settlements before the artillery wipes out the attacking forces, having either killed the Russian unit or after they've retreated back to the defensive line. That's the Russian strategy and this hasn't changed in months.
It's then a case of rinse and repeat until there's nothing left to fight from and the Russians are happy to move out, having destroyed huge numbers of Ukrainian men and machinery. Yes of course the Russians are suffering losses too but you're not really understanding how this defensive strategy works or what the Ukrainian's are facing.
You just read about a Ukrainian flag being hoisted in an abandoned settlement 10's of kilometres away from the first line of defence and sit at home thinking Ukraines on the move. It's really sad to see first hand, how the US media fools old people like you into living in a parallel universe.
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Here's a group of Ukrainian soldiers from last month, sending a message to the top brass about their dire situation on the front. They tell us that only 20% of the original mobilisation is alive and they're being ordered to attack a heavily fortified Russian position, with almost certain death coming their way. They are given 2 magazines each and 1 grenade to share between 3.
To make things worse, their commander doesn't report the dead and keeps taking the money, which would have been for their wages. I'm assuming it's US tax payers cash that he's pocketing. This is one of the more accurate stories to have been released rather than the Disney version being told by western media.
https://www.tiktok.com/@geopolitics404/video/7259440761333107995
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'Massive wave' of missile and drone attacks may have targeted Western aid.
Ukraine experienced a "massive wave" of Russian missile and drone attacks in the early hours of this morning - which might have been aimed at attacking Western supplies of aid, Sky News military analyst Sean Bell has said. "Lvov seems to have been the main target. One person has died there, there was a major fire in an industrial warehouse there which caused huge damage.
"A man and woman were trapped underneath the rubble. Amazingly the woman emerged completely unscathed. "The real question is why have the Russians attacked Lvov, it is a long way away from anywhere. It looks very likely this is about Russia attacking Western supplies of aid into the country."
I often wondered if Russia would track the deliveries of Western aid and then just destroy it once in country. It would seem like the logical counter measure, rather than letting it hit the front lines.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-forces-liberate-village-explosions-in-crimea-from-Kiev-military-operation-12541713
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'Massive wave' of missile and drone attacks may have targeted Western aid.
I often wondered if Russia would track the deliveries of Western aid and then just destroy it once in country. It would seem like the logical counter measure, rather than letting it hit the front lines.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-forces-liberate-village-explosions-in-crimea-from-Kiev-military-operation-12541713
It is likely about opportunity and intelligence.
We already know that the Russians can hit whatever targets they choose, when they choose to do so. Obviously they cannot do everything all at once - so they do not.
It is pretty much impossible to hide an accumulation of men or materiel, so monitoring such accumulations near the front lines is important as it gives clear insights into likely plans and timetables. So, delaying attacks on arms, transports and troops makes sense as it provides intelligence .
Hitting the accumulation of 'aid' in Lvov is about opportunity. They can, so they have. it also provides a strong signal to military planners in Ukraine, disrupts downstream logistics and reduces the overall effectiveness of the Ukrainian military.
Bottom lime, allowing materiel to move toward the frontlines performs valuable information to the Russian planners and is likely even more disruptive to immediate plans than destroying it further up the logistics chain.
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Ukraine have been making a bit of noise about success in Verbove because it's the first time they've managed to get near and/or breach part of the first line of defence. Around 2,500 men mounted an attack and although they did reach the dragons teeth, they were quickly despatched by the Russians, leaving around 280 survivors retreating to safety. Ukraine are now redeploying troops to beef up the force in the region and go back to try again.
The problem is that they still haven't got rid of the tank ditches and the Russians are lying in wait to defend as they've been trained to do. Here's a link to current state of play.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7280561448542129441?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
Now onto the horrible bit but the reason the western news haven't given this any video coverage is because the only video evidence of the Verbove assault shows the Russians literally wiping out hundreds/thousands of Ukrainian soldiers. I've linked the video below and it's one of the least graphic but it does show you what sort of firepower the Russians unleash at the defensive lines. There's other video's out there showing chewed up dead Ukrainians piled up high, all along a tree lined road.
Poor buggers and I believe it's a Russian BMP lighting the whole place up in spectacular fashion with great accuracy. Watching this makes you wonder if the stories about poorly equipped, under trained Russians fighting with shovels is true? (:)
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7280548998937644321?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
and another
https://www.tiktok.com/@russianlover96/video/7280530269344468256?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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The fall out continues as the Ukrainians continue to lecture their masters, make unreasonable demands and use unacceptable language. Ukraine would do well to wind their necks in a little, remain humble and avoid biting the hand that feeds them. Perhaps they know all too well, that they're now just a pawn in this proxy war and there's a dawn of realisation kicking in.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-fire-at-russian-oil-tank-ukrainian-forces-close-in-on-supply-road-into-key-battleground-zelenskyy-accuses-moscow-of-genocid-12541713
Poland summons Ukrainian ambassador over Zelenskyy's comments at UN
Poland's foreign ministry has summoned the Ukrainian ambassador over comments made by Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the UN General Assembly yesterday.
The foreign ministry said it conveyed the Polish side's "strong protest" against Mr Zelenskyy's statements "alleging that some EU countries feigned solidarity while indirectly supporting Russia".
In his speech yesterday Mr Zelenskyy said the "political theatre" around grain imports - which Poland, Hungary and Slovakia have banned from Ukraine - was only helping Moscow.
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
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Poland to stop supplying Ukraine with weapons - reports
Poland will stop supplying Ukraine with weapons as it will focus on arming itself, the country's prime minister has been quoted as saying.
Russian state media and Polish newspaper TFN both report this, although the comments are, as yet, unverified.
According to the reports - instead of sending further shipments, Poland will now look to "defending ourselves, with the most modern weapons".
Reportedly speaking with Polish TV channel Polsat News, Mateusz Morawiecki is quoted as saying: "If you want to defend yourself, you have to have something to defend with."
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-fire-at-russian-oil-tank-ukrainian-forces-close-in-on-supply-road-into-key-battleground-zelenskyy-accuses-moscow-of-genocid-12541713
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
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540 Ukrainian servicemen killed today, Russia claims
Russia claims to have killed 540 Ukrainian servicemen in the past 24 hours. The Russian ministry of defence claims forces inflicted the casualties across eight separate Ukrainian attacks on the frontline today, and through its own offensive actions.
It says Ukrainian attaks focused on areas around Donetsk, Krasnolimansk and Yuzhno-Donetsk, while Russian troops conducted attacks in the direction of Zaporozhye, Kupyansk and Kherson.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-fire-at-russian-oil-tank-ukrainian-forces-close-in-on-supply-road-into-key-battleground-zelenskyy-accuses-moscow-of-genocid-12541713
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
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In his speech yesterday Mr Zelenskyy said the "political theatre" around grain imports - which Poland, Hungary and Slovakia have banned from Ukraine - was only helping Moscow.[/i]
The sale (import) of grain is banned from the above for the rather simple reason that Ukraine cereal is cheaper than there neighbors.These countries do not want there local farmers destroyed.
The grain is flowing further West into Europe or being transshipped to Afrika.
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Because Russia will kill much more than that after the war ends, and they win. When Russia takes a village or town since December, they kill everyone that is alive in it. Men, women, children and babies. Putin signed 230,000 death certificates for the Russian army since the beginning of the war. The works out to be 500 Russian dying each and every day since the beginning of the war. That does not count the ones the lost and call missing in action. Nor does that count the number of wounded that will never work because of war related injuries. Only Russia can stop the war by going home.
Russia does not know how many Ukrainians they kill. Ukraine uses dummies to draw Russian fire and cause Russia to report more deaths than actually happen. Ukraine has factories to make all kinds of dummy gear including fake himars, tanks, personal and every kind of military gear they use. Then commanders claim larger number than real to make themselves look good. With the number of deaths the Russian army claims the Ukraine army has had, it should have been dysfunctional last year. Somehow it is not.
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I guess it depends on how much your country and its land mean to you. I would want to be supplied with weapons until the enemy is out of my country.
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Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
The Netherlands did in WW-2 , when Germany bombed rotterdam into oblivion, the Gov't decided that to suffer is better than to die. War lasted 5 whole days on our territories.
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I guess it depends on how much your country and its land mean to you. I would want to be supplied with weapons until the enemy is out of my country.
No I think it depends on someone seeing the bigger picture. Parts of Scotland were taken by England and parts of England have been taken by Scotland. We had centuries of conflict and war between the two nations.
Now let's imagine a random country far away from the British Isles, decided to back Scotland because England was their appointed enemy, sends weapons and keep the flames rumbling on. What would happen? More dead and generations of bitterness.
And we're not talking about a whole country but part of a neighbouring country which has ethnic citizens and a history of interrelatedness with one another. Your analogy of Russia invading the UK ignores all that.
I'd rather that land was traded for peace and discussions take place about moving forward. In the UK, we now share everything and we have friends, families, work colleagues and business straddling the borders and a rich history like a patch work quilt. None of this would happen had it been a proxy war flooded with foreign fighters and weaponry.
Land can be retrieved but dead fathers, sons, brothers and uncles are gone forever, leaving a huge hole in many many people's lives and a country completely broken.
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I guess it depends on how much your country and its land mean to you. I would want to be supplied with weapons until the enemy is out of my country.
And then your friend gets killed, because you keep on fighting. And then your wife dies by stray bullets and then your son.
Meanwhile you turn more bitter against the enemy whilst not realising that if you had just stopped fighting and acknowledged you can't defeat this enemy they would all still be alive.
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Because Russia will kill much more than that after the war ends, and they win. When Russia takes a village or town since December, they kill everyone that is alive in it. Men, women, children and babies.
Why do you tell lies Tex? Do you actually believe this, are you making it up or are you being told this by someone poorly informed?
The villages on the front have largely been evacuated and their strategic value means that they're places to attack and defend from. It's only the soldiers fighting who die in these villages.
If you think Russian soldiers have walked into Robotyne or Andriivka and murdered all the babies and women, then you're a retard who's watched way too many movies. Maybe you assume that they behave like American soldiers in the middle east or Asia?
There's plenty footage out there showing locals clapping Russian soldiers and giving them water and sweets but of course you won't be read up enough to know that.
Putin signed 230,000 death certificates for the Russian army since the beginning of the war. The works out to be 500 Russian dying each and every day since the beginning of the war.
Oh my god, do you think that Russia have ordered an exact amount of paperwork to send to the exact amount of dead soldiers? :ROFL:
There's reports saying that this has happened but it's likely that they've placed a stock order based on cost, supply and future needs. They are after all in a serious conflict but dont tell me for one minute, that they ordered an exact amount of death certificate for each person.....
The best estimates for the conflict as a whole, have it down at 4/5 dead Ukrainian soldiers for each Russian, with around 50,000+ dead Russians.
Russia does not know how many Ukrainians they kill. Ukraine uses dummies to draw Russian fire and cause Russia to report more deaths than actually happen. Ukraine has factories to make all kinds of dummy gear including fake himars, tanks, personal and every kind of military gear they use. Then commanders claim larger number than real to make themselves look good.
Are you sniffing glue or are you having a shot of that zombie drug doing the rounds over the pond?
Yes there may well be some decoys being used but when the drone footage shows moving tanks and infantry being destroyed, it's quite clear it wasn't a blow up doll and a rubber tank. :prophead:
With the number of deaths the Russian army claims the Ukraine army has had, it should have been dysfunctional last year. Somehow it is not.
There's a reason Ukrainian refugees are being arrested and returned and old men, teenagers, women and disabled folks are being rounded up to fight Tex. That's what happens when the brave are no longer in the land of the living.
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I guess it depends on how much your country and its land mean to you. I would want to be supplied with weapons until the enemy is out of my country.
And then your friend gets killed, because you keep on fighting. And then your wife dies by stray bullets and then your son.
Meanwhile you turn more bitter against the enemy whilst not realising that if you had just stopped fighting and acknowledged you can't defeat this enemy they would all still be alive.
I know it's not what the Americans, EU or NATO wants but let's imagine what would have happened had Ukraine folded prior to the invasion. What's the worst case scenario?
Ukraine is fully in tact with nothing destroyed, hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers alive and millions of refugees still in country. No NATO membership and no more weapons being poured into the country by the west.
Politically it might not be the best solution for the entire country but then they can try to fix that democratically. They can look at ways of keeping Ukraine as one whilst giving a bit of autonomy to the regions who look East. We have our own government, devolved issues and law in Scotland but we're still part of the UK. It can work.
All the weapons which were supposed to make Ukraine safe, actually made it more dangerous for them. Everyone could be there today, alive and with a voice. Politicians arguing with each other and the media trash talking Russia for not giving the West the keys to Ukraine but that would literally be it and it's a million times better than what we have today.
Instead look at the absolute shit show that's taken place, the death, destruction and carnage since we encouraged them to fight Russia in a bloody conflict and none of that includes the millions of people around the world pushed into poverty with a cost of living crisis.
I defy anyone who thinks that this was the right decision.
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Or a more realistic analogy.
Do you guys think given the problems in Northern Ireland, where sectarianism is rife and there's a divide between those wanting to be British or Irish, it would be best solved by pumping heavy weaponry into the country and telling them to fight for their land, fight to the death?
I'm not sure if it's the distance between Ukraine and the US or your media but you're all quite happy to watch people die unless it's your own? Fighting should be the very, very last resort and even then, when the unbearable atrocities are happening in front of our very eyes, we should be spending all our resources looking at peaceful resolution instead of military support.
That is of course, unless you really want to fight Russia via anther country.
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Or a more realistic analogy.
Do you guys think given the problems in Northern Ireland, where sectarianism is rife and there's a divide between those wanting to be British or Irish, it would be best solved by pumping heavy weaponry into the country and telling them to fight for their land, fight to the death?
I'm not sure if it's the distance between Ukraine and the US or your media but you're all quite happy to watch people die unless it's your own? Fighting should be the very, very last resort and even then, when the unbearable atrocities are happening in front of our very eyes, we should be spending all our resources looking at peaceful resolution instead of military support.
That is of course, unless you really want to fight Russia via anther country.
It is Russia the moved their taks in and started the war. Now they losing, and they want to get people like you to push for peace before they lose everything.
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It is Russia the moved their taks in and started the war. Now they losing, and they want to get people like you to push for peace before they lose everything.
Seems to me that Ukraine is on the verge of losing a lot of its benefactors, Poland, Slovakia, and the US. Their window & position for negotiations is only weakening. It seems that is the likely trend going forward too. Meanwhile, it seems the trend for Russia is it is picking up support from its suppliers and potential suppliers.
Jonas!
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Seems to me that Ukraine is on the verge of losing a lot of its benefactors, Poland, Slovakia, and the US. Their window & position for negotiations is only weakening. It seems that is the likely trend going forward too. Meanwhile, it seems the trend for Russia is it is picking up support from its suppliers and potential suppliers.
Jonas!
Do you care to elaborate on your ‘statement’?
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Seems to me that Ukraine is on the verge of losing a lot of its benefactors, Poland, Slovakia, and the US. Their window & position for negotiations is only weakening. It seems that is the likely trend going forward too. Meanwhile, it seems the trend for Russia is it is picking up support from its suppliers and potential suppliers.
Jonas!
Do you care to elaborate on your ‘statement’?
Not Jonas! But :
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1797965348/polen-stuurt-geen-wapens-meer-naar-oekraine-om-toespraak-zelenski
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It is Russia the moved their taks in and started the war. Now they losing, and they want to get people like you to push for peace before they lose everything.
Seems to me that Ukraine is on the verge of losing a lot of its benefactors, Poland, Slovakia, and the US. Their window & position for negotiations is only weakening. It seems that is the likely trend going forward too. Meanwhile, it seems the trend for Russia is it is picking up support from its suppliers and potential suppliers.
Jonas!
Man! I hope so as the presiding creepy idiot in the White House obviously have an agenda that prevails over Americans in their time of dire needs..
According to this (https://www.newsweek.com/heres-what-would-happen-if-we-stopped-supporting-ukraine-opinion-1828852)...
This act provided $12.4 billion, covering military training, logistical support, weapons, equipment, and $4.5 billion in economic support funds to Ukraine.
$12.4 billion when all is takes to rebuild Maui is literally less than that.
https://www.architecturalrecord.com/articles/16424-estimate-tops-55b-for-cost-of-maui-rebuild-after-fires
Our freaking country is so corrupt and all fudged-up! Thank the likes of BC for doing this to Americans.
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Seems to me that Ukraine is on the verge of losing a lot of its benefactors, Poland, Slovakia, and the US. Their window & position for negotiations is only weakening. It seems that is the likely trend going forward too. Meanwhile, it seems the trend for Russia is it is picking up support from its suppliers and potential suppliers.
Jonas!
Do you care to elaborate on your ‘statement’?
Not Jonas! But :
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1797965348/polen-stuurt-geen-wapens-meer-naar-oekraine-om-toespraak-zelenski
Below in English is an article that better explains the realities. The Polish leadership is doing a political dance for its constituency in a tight election. Warsaw is only to well aware what a weak Ukraine means for there own future. History has taught them that.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-no-longer-arming-ukraine-says-pm-2023-09-21/
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Our freaking country is so corrupt and all fudged-up!
That is true. For me, it is the complete hypocrisy that is most aggravating.
Have you noticed that suddenly India is in the spotlight, and not in a good way. That started when they started getting serious about bypassing the dollar and paying Saudi Arabia in Rupees. Suddenly India isn't a 'counter to China' but another 'evil authoritarian country'.
All the phone uproar and outrage because they may have assassinated someone...coming from us it is the epitome of hypocrisy.
Do you care to elaborate on your ‘statement’?
I think you have something to say, and I might be able to elaborate on that if you like.
Jonas!
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Have you noticed that suddenly India is in the spotlight, and not in a good way.
Jonas!
I have not notice anything about India being presented in a bad way. India is becoming in the spotlight more as it is becoming a more powerful nation and will outgrow China in the coming decades. I do not see India and the USA becoming confrontational any time soon. India is in the quad four with the USA as a military ally. India is replacing the Russia with the USA as its major arms supplier. It is just a matter of what news you choose to read.
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Below in English is an article that better explains the realities. The Polish leadership is doing a political dance for its constituency in a tight election. Warsaw is only to well aware what a weak Ukraine means for there own future. History has taught them that.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-no-longer-arming-ukraine-says-pm-2023-09-21/
Uh no, thats not a better article.
The Polish president has literally said: Ukraine is like a drowning man in need of help, but if they fight their rescuers so that it becomes a problem for us both, we must first tend to ourselves or we will drown both.
That is in no way in line with your reuters article.
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Have you noticed that suddenly India is in the spotlight, and not in a good way.
Jonas!
I have not notice anything about India being presented in a bad way. India is becoming in the spotlight more as it is becoming a more powerful nation and will outgrow China in the coming decades. I do not see India and the USA becoming confrontational any time soon. India is in the quad four with the USA as a military ally. India is replacing the Russia with the USA as its major arms supplier. It is just a matter of what news you choose to read.
It is definitely dependent on what news you choose to read. Suddenly Modi is a 'murderer' and a 'dictator'! The thing is the US can ill afford to make India an enemy. Both India and China are both catching up or passing the US. I'm sure our longstanding efforts to pit them against each other is noted by both nations.
(https://splco.me/eng/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/modi-funny.jpg)
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I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
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The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
Zelensky wants to fight, the tiktok and telegram movies suggest the Ukrainians themselves do not want to any longer.
And I'd rather be an alive dove, than something dead.
Russia's demands for ending the war are simple: Shooting stops, no NATO and donbass/crimea are now Russias.
For those of you whom think Russia will want more in the future, I doubt that very much. The country has become a wasteland now. and all those wanting to 'rebuild' will run into the same corruption there has always been.
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Below in English is an article that better explains the realities. The Polish leadership is doing a political dance for its constituency in a tight election. Warsaw is only to well aware what a weak Ukraine means for there own future. History has taught them that.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-no-longer-arming-ukraine-says-pm-2023-09-21/
Uh no, thats not a better article.
The Polish president has literally said: Ukraine is like a drowning man in need of help, but if they fight their rescuers so that it becomes a problem for us both, we must first tend to ourselves or we will drown both.
That is in no way in line with your reuters article.
Reuters is pushing propaganda? What a surprise! Not. :laugh:
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Get a job.
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I guess it depends on how much your country and its land mean to you. I would want to be supplied with weapons until the enemy is out of my country.
And then your friend gets killed, because you keep on fighting. And then your wife dies by stray bullets and then your son.
Meanwhile you turn more bitter against the enemy whilst not realising that if you had just stopped fighting and acknowledged you can't defeat this enemy they would all still be alive.
I know it's not what the Americans, EU or NATO wants but let's imagine what would have happened had Ukraine folded prior to the invasion. What's the worst case scenario?
Ukraine is fully in tact with nothing destroyed, hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers alive and millions of refugees still in country. No NATO membership and no more weapons being poured into the country by the west.
Politically it might not be the best solution for the entire country but then they can try to fix that democratically. They can look at ways of keeping Ukraine as one whilst giving a bit of autonomy to the regions who look East. We have our own government, devolved issues and law in Scotland but we're still part of the UK. It can work.
All the weapons which were supposed to make Ukraine safe, actually made it more dangerous for them. Everyone could be there today, alive and with a voice. Politicians arguing with each other and the media trash talking Russia for not giving the West the keys to Ukraine but that would literally be it and it's a million times better than what we have today.
Instead look at the absolute shit show that's taken place, the death, destruction and carnage since we encouraged them to fight Russia in a bloody conflict and none of that includes the millions of people around the world pushed into poverty with a cost of living crisis.
I defy anyone who thinks that this was the right decision.
I definitely think it was the right decision. Fold and give your country over to Putin? He wants the whole country he thinks it's part of Mother Russia and there is no democracy under an autocrat. I don't think your rosy picture of everything being at peace in Ukraine is realistic.
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh:
Get a job.
In other words, you have no logical rebuttal or you're much too lazy to make a decent one, so you just go straight to an insult. :laugh: :laugh:
You've lost rhetorical arguments repeatedly to B/B, Manny, Markje, Rosco, 2tallbill and myself.
So yeah, get a job. :coffeeread:
-
I guess it depends on how much your country and its land mean to you. I would want to be supplied with weapons until the enemy is out of my country.
And then your friend gets killed, because you keep on fighting. And then your wife dies by stray bullets and then your son.
Meanwhile you turn more bitter against the enemy whilst not realising that if you had just stopped fighting and acknowledged you can't defeat this enemy they would all still be alive.
I know it's not what the Americans, EU or NATO wants but let's imagine what would have happened had Ukraine folded prior to the invasion. What's the worst case scenario?
Ukraine is fully in tact with nothing destroyed, hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers alive and millions of refugees still in country. No NATO membership and no more weapons being poured into the country by the west.
Politically it might not be the best solution for the entire country but then they can try to fix that democratically. They can look at ways of keeping Ukraine as one whilst giving a bit of autonomy to the regions who look East. We have our own government, devolved issues and law in Scotland but we're still part of the UK. It can work.
All the weapons which were supposed to make Ukraine safe, actually made it more dangerous for them. Everyone could be there today, alive and with a voice. Politicians arguing with each other and the media trash talking Russia for not giving the West the keys to Ukraine but that would literally be it and it's a million times better than what we have today.
Instead look at the absolute shit show that's taken place, the death, destruction and carnage since we encouraged them to fight Russia in a bloody conflict and none of that includes the millions of people around the world pushed into poverty with a cost of living crisis.
I defy anyone who thinks that this was the right decision.
I definitely think it was the right decision. Fold and give your country over to Putin? He wants the whole country he thinks it's part of Mother Russia and there is no democracy under an autocrat. I don't think your rosy picture of everything being at peace in Ukraine is or was realistic.
Things may have worked out more peacefully if Russia had never interfered in the Donbas. I feel that once Russia got directly involved, things weren't going to end well.
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh:
Get a job.
In other words, you have no logical rebuttal or you're much too lazy to make a decent one, so you just go straight to an insult. :laugh: :laugh:
You've lost rhetorical arguments repeatedly to B/B, Manny, Markje, Rosco, 2tallbill and myself.
So yeah, get a job. :coffeeread:
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh:
Get a job.
In other words, you have no logical rebuttal or you're much too lazy to make a decent one, so you just go straight to an insult. :laugh: :laugh:
You've lost rhetorical arguments repeatedly to B/B, Manny, Markje, Rosco, 2tallbill and myself.
So yeah, get a job. :coffeeread:
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
Spouses Country: Russia
Status: Engaged
Trips: Semi-Resident
Why do you want a Russian wife? Semi-Resident. What exactly does that mean ? Any chance of explaining?
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Spouses Country: Russia
Status: Engaged
Trips: Semi-Resident
Why do you want a Russian wife? Semi-Resident. What exactly does that mean ? Any chance of explaining?
A wholly irrelevant response.
-
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
OK, I will...
The premise of your argument is faulty for its inconsistency and subjectivity. ‘Fighting for your country’, in terms of humankind, is and has always been a circular argument that had always remained unsettled. Knowing that, it makes your point illogical.
You may argue your point by your support of Ukraine’s perspective, but you would be wrong in Serbia, Azerbaijan, Hungary and in more than a few places in the world. These are ancient, unresolved causes of human conflict of ownership, belonging and power.
Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Now, to ‘realistically’ disprove your point once more, you can move to the Armenian-controlled region of Nagorno-Karabakh within the border of Azerbaijan. (We just deployed US troop there)
You have Magyars (Hungarians) in the present day territories of Slovakia, Ukraine, Poland. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Heck, isn’t this what the Arabs had been trying to tell us with Israel?
The interesting thing about these corners is the changing role being played by the usual background powers behind it all – East vs. West.
Bottom line, you need not go farther beyond your nation's history to understand the failings and consequences of 'belonging and birth rights'.
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
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Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
While there is truth in your last statement. The hoops that you have to jump through regarding former Yugoslavia are amazing, then again you might wake up every morning thinking you are handsome as R. Redford and as smart as N. Tesla.
Yugoslavia was a cobbled together group of regions with different languages, religions and ethnicities. If there was a recipe of disaster (think genocide) this was it. The leader, Tito, was more a South American Junta leader than a Communist in the Russian sense. He was infact a very good player on the International stage. With his passing the house of cards fell apart into the century old hatreds which reappeared.
-
Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
While there is truth in your last statement. The hoops that you have to jump through regarding former Yugoslavia are amazing, then again you might wake up every morning thinking you are handsome as R. Redford and as smart as N. Tesla.
Yugoslavia was a cobbled together group of regions with different languages, religions and ethnicities. If there was a recipe of disaster (think genocide) this was it. The leader, Tito, was more a South American Junta leader than a Communist in the Russian sense. He was infact a very good player on the International stage. With his passing the house of cards fell apart into the century old hatreds which reappeared.
Yugoslavia aka ‘Land of the South Slavs’. Who would that be? Bulgaria, Macedonian, Serbian - interestingly enough - not Albanians.
Yugoslavia existed post-WWI. Existed less than 80 years.
So what is it I said above you believe is wrong?
Btw. Subjectively speaking, I’m better looking than Robert and certainly smarter than Nikola in likely more than a few aspects in life. I am blessed with uncanny abilities and an abundance of skills.
But that’s just me. You?
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh:
Get a job.
In other words, you have no logical rebuttal or you're much too lazy to make a decent one, so you just go straight to an insult. :laugh: :laugh:
You've lost rhetorical arguments repeatedly to B/B, Manny, Markje, Rosco, 2tallbill and myself.
So yeah, get a job. :coffeeread:
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
Your rebuttal wasn't logical and realistic, it was just you burying your head in the sand like an ostrich.
Am I supposed to educate you line by line, because you're extremely lazy? Furthermore there is a conspiracy, but it isn't a theory. It's out in the open and blatant for those with a modicom of common sense, which apparently excludes you.
1. Here's an article on Il-legals, ie people whose first act is to commit a crime by unlawfully crossing our border, and were encouraged to come here by our treasonous lawless "president". It's a form of buying votes and it's easy to ascertain, since these Il-legals receive more money than the average Social Security receiver, receive public housing which they are not entitled to receive, clog up our Hospitals and commit crimes at alarming rates.
https://san.com/cc/surging-migrant-crisis-is-overwhelming-us-cities-from-eagle-pass-tx-to-nyc/
2. Blackrock recruiter caught on video saying that they can buy a Senator for $10,000 and that the Ukraine war is "good for business".
https://www.dailywire.com/news/james-okeefe-drops-bombshell-video-on-blackrock-you-got-10k-you-can-buy-a-senator
That is two obvious ones. mhr7 do your own research, stop wasting time. :dh:
-
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
OK, I will...
The premise of your argument is faulty for its inconsistency and subjectivity. ‘Fighting for your country’, in terms of humankind, is and has always been a circular argument that had always remained unsettled. Knowing that, it makes your point illogical.
You may argue your point by your support of Ukraine’s perspective, but you would be wrong in Serbia, Azerbaijan, Hungary and in more than a few places in the world. These are ancient, unresolved causes of human conflict of ownership, belonging and power.
Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Now, to ‘realistically’ disprove your point once more, you can move to the Armenian-controlled region of Nagorno-Karabakh within the border of Azerbaijan. (We just deployed US troop there)
You have Magyars (Hungarians) in the present day territories of Slovakia, Ukraine, Poland. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Heck, isn’t this what the Arabs had been trying to tell us with Israel?
The interesting thing about these corners is the changing role being played by the usual background powers behind it all – East vs. West.
Bottom line, you need not go farther beyond your nation's history to understand the failings and consequences of 'belonging and birth rights'.
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
Two thumbs up!
Excellent rebuttal. Those who do not understand your last statement, will never ascend (go to Heaven).
-
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
OK, I will...
The premise of your argument is faulty for its inconsistency and subjectivity. ‘Fighting for your country’, in terms of humankind, is and has always been a circular argument that had always remained unsettled. Knowing that, it makes your point illogical.
You may argue your point by your support of Ukraine’s perspective, but you would be wrong in Serbia, Azerbaijan, Hungary and in more than a few places in the world. These are ancient, unresolved causes of human conflict of ownership, belonging and power.
Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Now, to ‘realistically’ disprove your point once more, you can move to the Armenian-controlled region of Nagorno-Karabakh within the border of Azerbaijan. (We just deployed US troop there)
You have Magyars (Hungarians) in the present day territories of Slovakia, Ukraine, Poland. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Heck, isn’t this what the Arabs had been trying to tell us with Israel?
The interesting thing about these corners is the changing role being played by the usual background powers behind it all – East vs. West.
Bottom line, you need not go farther beyond your nation's history to understand the failings and consequences of 'belonging and birth rights'.
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
I think 'fighting for your country' in the sense of Americans fighting for their country in Afghanistan is one thing but fighting for your country when it has been invaded is another. Afghanistan never invaded the US so the fighting for the Americans wasn't as personal. The Ukrainians are fighting for what's theirs, their homes, their villages, their families. I don't think it's illogical in any way to defend what's yours. Land is owned and territories are marked and fighting for yours is fine.
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh:
Get a job.
In other words, you have no logical rebuttal or you're much too lazy to make a decent one, so you just go straight to an insult. :laugh: :laugh:
You've lost rhetorical arguments repeatedly to B/B, Manny, Markje, Rosco, 2tallbill and myself.
So yeah, get a job. :coffeeread:
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
Your rebuttal wasn't logical and realistic, it was just you burying your head in the sand like an ostrich.
Am I supposed to educate you line by line, because you're extremely lazy? Furthermore there is a conspiracy, but it isn't a theory. It's out in the open and blatant for those with a modicom of common sense, which apparently excludes you.
1. Here's an article on Il-legals, ie people whose first act is to commit a crime by unlawfully crossing our border, and were encouraged to come here by our treasonous lawless "president". It's a form of buying votes and it's easy to ascertain, since these Il-legals receive more money than the average Social Security receiver, receive public housing which they are not entitled to receive, clog up our Hospitals and commit crimes at alarming rates.
https://san.com/cc/surging-migrant-crisis-is-overwhelming-us-cities-from-eagle-pass-tx-to-nyc/
2. Blackrock recruiter caught on video saying that they can buy a Senator for $10,000 and that the Ukraine war is "good for business".
https://www.dailywire.com/news/james-okeefe-drops-bombshell-video-on-blackrock-you-got-10k-you-can-buy-a-senator
That is two obvious ones. mhr7 do your own research, stop wasting time. :dh:
Your first source doesn't talk about the things you've listed and your second source is highly dubious, I'm not getting involved with it nor am I dodging your argument. I asked for a bone and you gave me nothing.
https://citywire.com/pro-buyer/news/blackrock-reacts-to-the-conspiracy-theorists/a2389549
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/
Please feel free to vociferously complain about the websites.
-
Spouses Country: Russia
Status: Engaged
Trips: Semi-Resident
Why do you want a Russian wife? Semi-Resident. What exactly does that mean ? Any chance of explaining?
I live in Russia the majority of the year but I do it on visas not residency and a Russian wife because I met her there.
-
Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
While there is truth in your last statement. The hoops that you have to jump through regarding former Yugoslavia are amazing, then again you might wake up every morning thinking you are handsome as R. Redford and as smart as N. Tesla.
Yugoslavia was a cobbled together group of regions with different languages, religions and ethnicities. If there was a recipe of disaster (think genocide) this was it. The leader, Tito, was more a South American Junta leader than a Communist in the Russian sense. He was infact a very good player on the International stage. With his passing the house of cards fell apart into the century old hatreds which reappeared.
Yugoslavia aka ‘Land of the South Slavs’. Who would that be? Bulgaria, Macedonian, Serbian - interestingly enough - not Albanians.
Yugoslavia existed post-WWI. Existed less than 80 years.
So what is it I said above you believe is wrong?
Btw. Subjectively speaking, I’m better looking than Robert and certainly smarter than Nikola in likely more than a few aspects in life. I am blessed with uncanny abilities and an abundance of skills.
But that’s just me. You?
Not really sure where to begin with your lack of knowledge. Historically the peoples of Southern Slavic regio are none of the regions/countries you note.
A common mistake is to mix up ethnicity and religious backgrounds and to consider them one.
-
Spouses Country: Russia
Status: Engaged
Trips: Semi-Resident
Why do you want a Russian wife? Semi-Resident. What exactly does that mean ? Any chance of explaining?
I live in Russia the majority of the year but I do it on visas not residency and a Russian wife because I met her there.
Take care Steve will start vetting who can marry a Russian woman. :laugh:
-
Not really sure where to begin with your lack of knowledge. Historically the peoples of Southern Slavic regio are none of the regions/countries you note.
A common mistake is to mix up ethnicity and religious backgrounds and to consider them one.
LMAO!
Well, you can begin, at your convenience, by telling the good folks of this forum who the 3 groups of modern Slavs are:
The West Slavs, the East Slavs, and the South Slavs.
Then bless us with your knowledge and tell us which of the 3 groupings Albanians belong to. Use whatever Googled reference you'd like to use. If not ask BC. He's Googler supreme.
You need to be careful in your response because as of right now there hasn't been an insinuation on my part that made any distinction, tribal or otherwise.
So go ahead. Indulge us.
-
I think 'fighting for your country' in the sense of Americans fighting for their country in Afghanistan is one thing but fighting for your country when it has been invaded is another. Afghanistan never invaded the US so the fighting for the Americans wasn't as personal. The Ukrainians are fighting for what's theirs, their homes, their villages, their families. I don't think it's illogical in any way to defend what's yours. Land is owned and territories are marked and fighting for yours is fine.
So what do you think Ukrainians of the Donbas region is/was fighting for? Under what 'right' or entitlement do you think made them believe that it's their right to defend it? Country? Ethnicity? Birth right?
What?
-
Take the Balkans or example, Serbs have long ruled and felt entitled to have Kosovo as part of, and a province to, Serbia. During the fall of the Soviet regime, Serbia elected Milosevic and one of the first program he initiated was to replace Albanians with Serbs on all government positions. He made Serbian as the national language (Think 2014 Maidan).
Albanians rejected this initiative and revolted (KLA – think Donbas separatists). With (illegal) intervention and military support by the US (think Russia), Kosovo ultimately declared independence and broke away from Serbia (think Donbas/Crimea). To this day, there’re a huge number of ethnic-Serbs in the northern territory of ‘Kosovo’, and to this day all Serbs claim all territories in the region to be ‘Serbia’ (Think Ukraine). WE (the west), even went as far as executing a nation's duly elected president as though we have the supreme right to do so.
To this day, there are nations who does not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Yes, including Ukraine (where your point fails miserably). (WE just deployed US troops there)
Ironically, that ol' Indian proverb always reverberate: ~We do not own this land. We are merely borrowing it from our children!
While there is truth in your last statement. The hoops that you have to jump through regarding former Yugoslavia are amazing, then again you might wake up every morning thinking you are handsome as R. Redford and as smart as N. Tesla.
Yugoslavia was a cobbled together group of regions with different languages, religions and ethnicities. If there was a recipe of disaster (think genocide) this was it. The leader, Tito, was more a South American Junta leader than a Communist in the Russian sense. He was infact a very good player on the International stage. With his passing the house of cards fell apart into the century old hatreds which reappeared.
Yugoslavia aka ‘Land of the South Slavs’. Who would that be? Bulgaria, Macedonian, Serbian - interestingly enough - not Albanians.
Yugoslavia existed post-WWI. Existed less than 80 years.
So what is it I said above you believe is wrong?
Btw. Subjectively speaking, I’m better looking than Robert and certainly smarter than Nikola in likely more than a few aspects in life. I am blessed with uncanny abilities and an abundance of skills.
But that’s just me. You?
Not really sure where to begin with your lack of knowledge. Historically the peoples of Southern Slavic regio are none of the regions/countries you note.
A common mistake is to mix up ethnicity and religious backgrounds and to consider them one.
Double post, my excuses.
-
Not really sure where to begin with your lack of knowledge. Historically the peoples of Southern Slavic regio are none of the regions/countries you note.
A common mistake is to mix up ethnicity and religious backgrounds and to consider them one.
LMAO!
Well, you can begin, at your convenience, by telling the good folks of this forum who the 3 groups of modern Slavs are:
The West Slavs, the East Slavs, and the South Slavs.
Then bless us with your knowledge and tell us which of the 3 groupings Albanians belong to. Use whatever Googled reference you'd like to use. If not ask BC. He's Googler supreme.
You need to be careful in your response because as of right now there hasn't been an insinuation on my part that made any distinction, tribal or otherwise.
So go ahead. Indulge us.
The original Albanians were so-called Illyrians that were absorbed by the Ottoman Empire in the 1400’s adopting the Muslim faith.
That is enough history for today, would not want to tax your mental capabilities.
-
I know you guys discuss it all from the strategic point of view, and think about weapons and fortifications and US taxpayers - but for me it's nearly impossible to express how damn hard it is... to know that people are dying every day. Business contacts / friendships / families being broken, because of their memebers finding themselves on different sided of the barricades... Cities being destroyed...
:snivel:
This war must stop asap.
I think everyone on this forum agrees to that point
Absolutely.
It's my belief that after everything we've witnessed, people are far more important than land and constructive dialogue post cease fire is a million times better than sending yet more weapons. Ukraine cant throw Russia out of the territories they hold so why kill 100,000's of more men out of stubbornness.
It's horrific.
Would you have this same attitude if Russia invaded the UK?
Yes, however you've missed out a lot of detail and just suggested if Russia invaded the UK. That's intentionally vague.
For what it's worth, there's many parts of the UK which belonged to different countries during centuries of battles. We're now a united Kingdom and people in these regions don't kill each other today.
Are you suggesting it would be better for allies around the world to keep supplying weapons so we can keep killing each other, because that's my land?
I'm simply asking if you would defend your country or roll over and play dead. The Ukrainians want to fight and the West cannot allow an autocrat to simply take over a sovereign country. If you want to be a dove, more power to ya.
You are a dove, a dove to the warmongers and war profiteers such as Blackrock. A dove to the fact they can buy a politician for $10,000.
A dove to those who mutilate children for profit. A dove to those pushing pedophilia in California and pushing pornographic books in schools.
A dove to those who are working overtime to replace real Americans, with whatever criminals they can find in countries around the world, at least 147 countries, suddenly invited to send their free-loading young men here. Men who do not share American values and will be committing new waves of crime.
A dove to violent crime and Soros appointed prosecutors who refuse to prosecute violent crime.
A dove to the fact that the Biden Clan are longtime grifters and that Biden clearly has dementia and isn't a real President; only an immoral mouthpiece for the WHO and others eager to destroy the middle class and enslave all of us.
A dove to any real reading which you habitually refer to as "conspiracy theories".
In short, you're a dove who deserves to live in a 3rd world shithole, which is what your masters want for the USA, Ukraine and the rest of Europe. :coffeeread:
Thanks for the BS, I needed a good laugh. :laugh:
Get a job.
In other words, you have no logical rebuttal or you're much too lazy to make a decent one, so you just go straight to an insult. :laugh: :laugh:
You've lost rhetorical arguments repeatedly to B/B, Manny, Markje, Rosco, 2tallbill and myself.
So yeah, get a job. :coffeeread:
My rebuttal was as logical and realistic as the items you listed. You want an argument then throw me a bone and at least keep it in the realm of reality. I can't work with conspiracy.
Your rebuttal wasn't logical and realistic, it was just you burying your head in the sand like an ostrich.
Am I supposed to educate you line by line, because you're extremely lazy? Furthermore there is a conspiracy, but it isn't a theory. It's out in the open and blatant for those with a modicom of common sense, which apparently excludes you.
1. Here's an article on Il-legals, ie people whose first act is to commit a crime by unlawfully crossing our border, and were encouraged to come here by our treasonous lawless "president". It's a form of buying votes and it's easy to ascertain, since these Il-legals receive more money than the average Social Security receiver, receive public housing which they are not entitled to receive, clog up our Hospitals and commit crimes at alarming rates.
https://san.com/cc/surging-migrant-crisis-is-overwhelming-us-cities-from-eagle-pass-tx-to-nyc/
2. Blackrock recruiter caught on video saying that they can buy a Senator for $10,000 and that the Ukraine war is "good for business".
https://www.dailywire.com/news/james-okeefe-drops-bombshell-video-on-blackrock-you-got-10k-you-can-buy-a-senator
That is two obvious ones. mhr7 do your own research, stop wasting time. :dh:
Your first source doesn't talk about the things you've listed and your second source is highly dubious, I'm not getting involved with it nor am I dodging your argument. I asked for a bone and you gave me nothing.
Completely False.
Like I already said, you'd rather bury your head in the sand like an ostrich.
You can't handle the truth, so you claim the source is "highly dubious" which is what you've been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe. You then claim you're not dodging the argement which is based on hard-hitting truth, which is exaclty what you're doing.
Then you have the nerve to post a "rebuttal" from the likes of Blackrock, an evil group pushing transgenderism, war, and rebuilding the cities of Ukraine in all digital cities prisons as a method of enslavement for those Ukrainians left alive.
You also have the nerve to post a "fact checker" site which is just a rubber stamp of the first bunch of lies. Hard to believe human beings can be so obtuse as you are.
You claim that the first source doesn't talk about the things I listed, which have been obvious for decades and now are an acceleration of the slow-motion genocide of the remaining Whites in this formerly great Republic, via replacement and bigotry.
If they get their vaunted CBDC it's all over for anyone who is a Conservative. And those on the left who finally realize that Conservatives were the salt of the earth, the glue doing the hard work of keeping this country together and feeding us; if they complain or mention it, they will also become "enemies of the state".
-
Not really sure where to begin with your lack of knowledge. Historically the peoples of Southern Slavic regio are none of the regions/countries you note.
A common mistake is to mix up ethnicity and religious backgrounds and to consider them one.
LMAO!
Well, you can begin, at your convenience, by telling the good folks of this forum who the 3 groups of modern Slavs are:
The West Slavs, the East Slavs, and the South Slavs.
Then bless us with your knowledge and tell us which of the 3 groupings Albanians belong to. Use whatever Googled reference you'd like to use. If not ask BC. He's Googler supreme.
You need to be careful in your response because as of right now there hasn't been an insinuation on my part that made any distinction, tribal or otherwise.
So go ahead. Indulge us.
The original Albanians were so-called Illyrians that were absorbed by the Ottoman Empire in the 1400’s adopting the Muslim faith.
That is enough history for today, would not want to tax your mental capabilities.
Ah, so 600 years later you actually think they have anything in common? :ROFL:
-
Not really sure where to begin with your lack of knowledge. Historically the peoples of Southern Slavic regio are none of the regions/countries you note.
A common mistake is to mix up ethnicity and religious backgrounds and to consider them one.
LMAO!
Well, you can begin, at your convenience, by telling the good folks of this forum who the 3 groups of modern Slavs are:
The West Slavs, the East Slavs, and the South Slavs.
Then bless us with your knowledge and tell us which of the 3 groupings Albanians belong to. Use whatever Googled reference you'd like to use. If not ask BC. He's Googler supreme.
You need to be careful in your response because as of right now there hasn't been an insinuation on my part that made any distinction, tribal or otherwise.
So go ahead. Indulge us.
The original Albanians were so-called Illyrians that were absorbed by the Ottoman Empire in the 1400’s adopting the Muslim faith.
That is enough history for today, would not want to tax your mental capabilities.
Your translation of 'enough' is your ignorance showing. The fact you got yourself dabbling about which you have no knowledge of is quite revealing. Your silly, rather hysterical response of
" The original Albanians were so-called Illyrians that were absorbed by the Ottoman Empire in the 1400’s adopting the Muslim faith. "
...have zip, zero, nada relevance to the subject discussion and questions put forth in front of you. :chuckle:
But, as always I remind myself when these things occur ~ Eagles don't hunt flies...so move along.
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Completely False.
Like I already said, you'd rather bury your head in the sand like an ostrich.
You can't handle the truth, so you claim the source is "highly dubious" which is what you've been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe. You then claim you're not dodging the argement which is based on hard-hitting truth, which is exaclty what you're doing.
Then you have the nerve to post a "rebuttal" from the likes of Blackrock, an evil group pushing transgenderism, war, and rebuilding the cities of Ukraine in all digital cities prisons as a method of enslavement for those Ukrainians left alive.
You also have the nerve to post a "fact checker" site which is just a rubber stamp of the first bunch of lies. Hard to believe human beings can be so obtuse as you are.
You claim that the first source doesn't talk about the things I listed, which have been obvious for decades and now are an acceleration of the slow-motion genocide of the remaining Whites in this formerly great Republic, via replacement and bigotry.
If they get their vaunted CBDC it's all over for anyone who is a Conservative. And those on the left who finally realize that Conservatives were the salt of the earth, the glue doing the hard work of keeping this country together and feeding us; if they complain or mention it, they will also become "enemies of the state".
We're not on the same planet or even the same universe. I'll leave you to your own world.
-
I think 'fighting for your country' in the sense of Americans fighting for their country in Afghanistan is one thing but fighting for your country when it has been invaded is another. Afghanistan never invaded the US so the fighting for the Americans wasn't as personal. The Ukrainians are fighting for what's theirs, their homes, their villages, their families. I don't think it's illogical in any way to defend what's yours. Land is owned and territories are marked and fighting for yours is fine.
So what do you think Ukrainians of the Donbas region is/was fighting for? Under what 'right' or entitlement do you think made them believe that it's their right to defend it? Country? Ethnicity? Birth right?
What?
It's their right to defend it because it's what they call home.
-
I think 'fighting for your country' in the sense of Americans fighting for their country in Afghanistan is one thing but fighting for your country when it has been invaded is another. Afghanistan never invaded the US so the fighting for the Americans wasn't as personal. The Ukrainians are fighting for what's theirs, their homes, their villages, their families. I don't think it's illogical in any way to defend what's yours. Land is owned and territories are marked and fighting for yours is fine.
So what do you think Ukrainians of the Donbas region is/was fighting for? Under what 'right' or entitlement do you think made them believe that it's their right to defend it? Country? Ethnicity? Birth right?
What?
It's their right to defend it because it's what they call home.
Why then would Ukrainians label them ‘terrorists, separatists, etc ‘ if all they’re doing is ‘defending their country/home’?
Why are you supportive of a government oppressive and murderous of its own people? Was it unjust then that Milosevic was killed for what has happened in Kosovo? If he was wrong, then wouldn’t the government of Kiev is, too?
If Russia is wrong for its support of the people of Donbas then logic dictates so would the US for its support of Kosovo at that time, no?
If you agree, isn’t it prudent for this conflict to stop as there will be no winners or losers in these types of conflict.
I’m on the side of peace void of military intervention and political provocations.
-
It's their right to defend it because it's what they call home.
And they have been, for the past 8 years. Now they have a relative peace for 1 year, until war will once again devastate their cities.
Crimea also chose to leave Ukraine. The west does not recognise it, because it does not fit their agenda. The referendum itself was completely open and 'international auditors' were welcome (because the outcome was completely set in stone)... No auditors were sent, because they did not want to create an air of legitimacy. This alone tells me all I need to know.
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Completely False.
Like I already said, you'd rather bury your head in the sand like an ostrich.
You can't handle the truth, so you claim the source is "highly dubious" which is what you've been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe. You then claim you're not dodging the argement which is based on hard-hitting truth, which is exaclty what you're doing.
Then you have the nerve to post a "rebuttal" from the likes of Blackrock, an evil group pushing transgenderism, war, and rebuilding the cities of Ukraine in all digital cities prisons as a method of enslavement for those Ukrainians left alive.
You also have the nerve to post a "fact checker" site which is just a rubber stamp of the first bunch of lies. Hard to believe human beings can be so obtuse as you are.
You claim that the first source doesn't talk about the things I listed, which have been obvious for decades and now are an acceleration of the slow-motion genocide of the remaining Whites in this formerly great Republic, via replacement and bigotry.
If they get their vaunted CBDC it's all over for anyone who is a Conservative. And those on the left who finally realize that Conservatives were the salt of the earth, the glue doing the hard work of keeping this country together and feeding us; if they complain or mention it, they will also become "enemies of the state".
We're not on the same planet or even the same universe. I'll leave you to your own world.
Poor guy.
Can't bear to even watch the video and learn how the World of immoral bankers really works?
Not an exception either, it's been going on this way for a thousand or more years.
https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1671262303319392259?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1671262303319392259%7Ctwgr%5E65d544a6a74da00088b771aa4c72835cc9bc9181%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2Fjames-okeefe-drops-bombshell-video-on-blackrock-you-got-10k-you-can-buy-a-senator
BTW the BlackRock response only deals with the green agenda, BlackRock buying private homes (they say it's BlackStone) and a crypto currency. There's no denial at all about the recruiter Serge Varlay and his disclosures regarding buying off corrupt politicians.
Then your alleged fact checker simply gives mixed reviews about the Daily Wire site. The same news is on 16 other sites. Of course for a childish guy who lives in a fantasy world, only "mockingbird" media is good media.
Essentially you've admitted that you won't even read a site or watch a video, because it might upset your fantasy world.
Compare and contrast that to myself and most other legitimate researchers and truth seekers, who will read and watch material from all angles.
-
I think 'fighting for your country' in the sense of Americans fighting for their country in Afghanistan is one thing but fighting for your country when it has been invaded is another. Afghanistan never invaded the US so the fighting for the Americans wasn't as personal. The Ukrainians are fighting for what's theirs, their homes, their villages, their families. I don't think it's illogical in any way to defend what's yours. Land is owned and territories are marked and fighting for yours is fine.
So what do you think Ukrainians of the Donbas region is/was fighting for? Under what 'right' or entitlement do you think made them believe that it's their right to defend it? Country? Ethnicity? Birth right?
What?
It's their right to defend it because it's what they call home.
As usual, you ignore the fact that Ukraine is pretty evenly divided along pro-West and pro-Russian sentiments.
This is similar to the fact that you won't even bother reading or watching videos which upset your fantasy of how the world works.
-
Completely False.
Like I already said, you'd rather bury your head in the sand like an ostrich.
You can't handle the truth, so you claim the source is "highly dubious" which is what you've been indoctrinated and brainwashed to believe. You then claim you're not dodging the argement which is based on hard-hitting truth, which is exaclty what you're doing.
Then you have the nerve to post a "rebuttal" from the likes of Blackrock, an evil group pushing transgenderism, war, and rebuilding the cities of Ukraine in all digital cities prisons as a method of enslavement for those Ukrainians left alive.
You also have the nerve to post a "fact checker" site which is just a rubber stamp of the first bunch of lies. Hard to believe human beings can be so obtuse as you are.
You claim that the first source doesn't talk about the things I listed, which have been obvious for decades and now are an acceleration of the slow-motion genocide of the remaining Whites in this formerly great Republic, via replacement and bigotry.
If they get their vaunted CBDC it's all over for anyone who is a Conservative. And those on the left who finally realize that Conservatives were the salt of the earth, the glue doing the hard work of keeping this country together and feeding us; if they complain or mention it, they will also become "enemies of the state".
We're not on the same planet or even the same universe. I'll leave you to your own world.
Poor guy.
Can't bear to even watch the video and learn how the World of immoral bankers really works?
Not an exception either, it's been going on this way for a thousand or more years.
https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1671262303319392259?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1671262303319392259%7Ctwgr%5E65d544a6a74da00088b771aa4c72835cc9bc9181%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2Fjames-okeefe-drops-bombshell-video-on-blackrock-you-got-10k-you-can-buy-a-senator
BTW the BlackRock response only deals with the green agenda, BlackRock buying private homes (they say it's BlackStone) and a crypto currency. There's no denial at all about the recruiter Serge Varlay and his disclosures regarding buying off corrupt politicians.
Then your alleged fact checker simply gives mixed reviews about the Daily Wire site. The same news is on 16 other sites. Of course for a childish guy who lives in a fantasy world, only "mockingbird" media is good media.
Essentially you've admitted that you won't even read a site or watch a video, because it might upset your fantasy world.
Compare and contrast that to myself and most other legitimate researchers and truth seekers, who will read and watch material from all angles.
https://www.quora.com/Did-CIA-Director-William-Casey-really-say-Well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-American-public-believes-is-false
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As usual, you ignore the fact that Ukraine is pretty evenly divided along pro-West and pro-Russian sentiments.
That may have true ten years ago but though days are long gone.
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As usual, you ignore the fact that Ukraine is pretty evenly divided along pro-West and pro-Russian sentiments.
That may have true ten years ago but though days are long gone.
Just curious Tex, at which point would you like to see genuine Peace talks?
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I’m on the side of peace void of military intervention and political provocations.
Without our military interventions and political provocations and strong-arming, I don't think us US citizenry would be able to continue to have the lifestyles we have. Since we have been so ineffectively lately internationally, it already seems to have come home to roost in terms of our lifestyles (in general) which have taken a hit. Much of the world has caught up to, is catching up to, or already passed us in a lot of respects. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is talking about a 4 day work week. That will not strengthen the country's standing. We either produce or start falling further down the totem pool...our days of easy money seem to be coming to a close. The costs of everyday necessities like natural gas, gasoline, food, are way up. Reminds me of poorer countries, where most all their income goes to necessities.
Jonas!
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As usual, you ignore the fact that Ukraine is pretty evenly divided along pro-West and pro-Russian sentiments.
That may have true ten years ago but though days are long gone.
No, all the pro-Russian guys are now behind the war-lines.... so what remains in control of Ukraine today, is mostly predominantly pro-Western. I can't speak from experience on Donbass, but Crimea as a whole most definately does not want to return to Ukraine.
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I’m on the side of peace void of military intervention and political provocations.
Without our military interventions and political provocations and strong-arming, I don't think us US citizenry would be able to continue to have the lifestyles we have. Since we have been so ineffectively lately internationally, it already seems to have come home to roost in terms of our lifestyles (in general) which have taken a hit. Much of the world has caught up to, is catching up to, or already passed us in a lot of respects. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is talking about a 4 day work week. That will not strengthen the country's standing. We either produce or start falling further down the totem pool...our days of easy money seem to be coming to a close. The costs of everyday necessities like natural gas, gasoline, food, are way up. Reminds me of poorer countries, where most all their income goes to necessities.
Jonas!
Have you seen Lavrov's speech to the UN ? He really hits some sore-spots that will come home to roost in the west as well. I think he's right on the money and if india/china/russia and other large brics countries get it together, the us-dominance will soon come to an end and a multipolar world will begin, just as Lavrov predicts here.
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Like I already said, you'd rather bury your head in the sand like an ostrich.
In defense of ostrich’s they do not stick there heads in the sand. Dim witted people though will believe what ever conspiracy theory is de jour for this moment.
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I’m on the side of peace void of military intervention and political provocations.
Without our military interventions and political provocations and strong-arming, I don't think us US citizenry would be able to continue to have the lifestyles we have. Since we have been so ineffectively lately internationally, it already seems to have come home to roost in terms of our lifestyles (in general) which have taken a hit. Much of the world has caught up to, is catching up to, or already passed us in a lot of respects. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is talking about a 4 day work week. That will not strengthen the country's standing. We either produce or start falling further down the totem pool...our days of easy money seem to be coming to a close. The costs of everyday necessities like natural gas, gasoline, food, are way up. Reminds me of poorer countries, where most all their income goes to necessities.
Jonas!
Hell yeah! Every time 2 Somalia gets bombed, ka-Ching! We all get pay raises. 3 Iraqis, you get a nice car. 4 Palestinians, filet mignon baby! 2 Libyans, you get yourself a 72” 8k TV with surround Sound.
Methinks we may all be getting a true windfall with the Ukrainians though. That’ll definitely be a huge payday, man!
Brings to mind this little dandy that tell the same tale:
According to Lavrov’s press conference, when asked about the grain shipments and the threat of global starvation due to the US’s war in Ukraine, and only taking what I believe he said, “3% of grains was shipped to Africa about 40% to EU…”
You see, even ‘starvation’ is relative.
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China was the biggest consumer of Ukraine grain. Poland is very upset as more grain was getting ready to go thru Poland to the EU forcing prices down for Polish farmers. Lavrov’s comment just like everything else he says is pretty much a lie.
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I’m on the side of peace void of military intervention and political provocations.
Without our military interventions and political provocations and strong-arming, I don't think us US citizenry would be able to continue to have the lifestyles we have. Since we have been so ineffectively lately internationally, it already seems to have come home to roost in terms of our lifestyles (in general) which have taken a hit. Much of the world has caught up to, is catching up to, or already passed us in a lot of respects. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders is talking about a 4 day work week. That will not strengthen the country's standing. We either produce or start falling further down the totem pool...our days of easy money seem to be coming to a close. The costs of everyday necessities like natural gas, gasoline, food, are way up. Reminds me of poorer countries, where most all their income goes to necessities.
Jonas!
Hell yeah! Every time 2 Somalia gets bombed, ka-Ching! We all get pay raises. 3 Iraqis, you get a nice car. 4 Palestinians, filet mignon baby! 2 Libyans, you get yourself a 72” 8k TV with surround Sound.
Methinks we may all be getting a true windfall with the Ukrainians though. That’ll definitely be a huge payday, man!
Brings to mind this little dandy that tell the same tale:
According to Lavrov’s press conference, when asked about the grain shipments and the threat of global starvation due to the US’s war in Ukraine, and only taking what I believe he said, “3% of grains was shipped to Africa about 40% to EU…”
You see, even ‘starvation’ is relative.
You may not recall, but you sent me this video (Or one very similar) a few years back on the other 'community'. I had absorbed it along with many other things through the years. Over the years, one conclusion I've reached is that Western nations like to push the false narrative that African (and in general black nations) can't govern themselves. That gives us the false justification to come riding in on our white horses and 'get their house in order'. When the reality is, we just want to pillage their resources through a sweetheart deal while promoting policies that keep their nations in permanent disarray.
Jonas!
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Have you seen Lavrov's speech to the UN ? He really hits some sore-spots that will come home to roost in the west as well. I think he's right on the money and if india/china/russia and other large brics countries get it together, the us-dominance will soon come to an end and a multipolar world will begin, just as Lavrov predicts here.
I hadn't seen the speech although I'm looking at it now.
We (The US) will do all we can to try to drive wedges between China/India and China/Russia. It seems more likely they are going to be working more together going forward. Blinken is out on a charm tour, but he seems to be outgunned. We don't have a good history with much of the world, so it won't be hard for nations to turn away from us if they sense blood in the water. Behind the scenes China is pricking us in 1000 ways, and providing that blood. As a nation we (The US) are rather fractured and don't have enough support to do much, unless something drastic happens like a massive Russian attack. All Russia/China needs to do is stay the slow and steady course, while ratcheting up slowly. I see Russia banned diesel exports yesterday. I passed a gas station today, almost $7.00 for diesel.
Soon it may be the US interests to bow out of Ukraine. If that were to happen, I'd be curious to see the slant of how it is reported.
Jonas!
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I hadn't seen the speech although I'm looking at it now.
We (The US) will do all we can to try to drive wedges between China/India and China/Russia.
Driving a wedge between China and India. What joke. They are at war!!! They already hate each other. Not much the USA can do change any of that. It is about like saying the Chinese are trying to drive a wedge between USA and Russia. Russia is in the process of becoming a Chinese satellite nation. Not much we can do about that neither.
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I hadn't seen the speech although I'm looking at it now.
We (The US) will do all we can to try to drive wedges between China/India and China/Russia.
Driving a wedge between China and India. What joke. They are at war!!! They already hate each other. Not much the USA can do change any of that. It is about like saying the Chinese are trying to drive a wedge between USA and Russia. Russia is in the process of becoming a Chinese satellite nation. Not much we can do about that neither.
A good example of what I stated about trying to drive a wedge. No they aren't at war. If they were at war, there would be millions of dead. It seems to somewhat sooth feelings here in the US to pretend these two countries are mortal enemies when in fact it is a mostly peaceful coexistence. It is more likely they are going to do what they can to extract wealth and gain market share the US previously has held. A little from each other of course, but most of their gains will come at the expense of the Western nations that have historically put them over the barrel.
Jonas!
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According to Lavrov’s press conference, when asked about the grain shipments and the threat of global starvation due to the US’s war in Ukraine, and only taking what I believe he said, “3% of grains was shipped to Africa about 40% to EU…”
You see, even ‘starvation’ is relative.
I read about this a while back. The majority was shipped and sold to the EU where it's processed and re-sold as consumer products. It's little wonder the west is making a song and dance about it when its corporate profits being hurt.
It's just really sad when it's then repackaged as a starving Africa headline and sold cheaply, to people like Tex.
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Driving a wedge between China and India. What joke. They are at war!!! They already hate each other. Not much the USA can do change any of that. It is about like saying the Chinese are trying to drive a wedge between USA and Russia. Russia is in the process of becoming a Chinese satellite nation. Not much we can do about that neither.
What planet do you live on. :prophead:
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The real one where China and India agree on a cease fire but never ended the war. They still have skirmishes on their border where people die. One not long ago killed 54 Indians and India claimed they more Chinese than that. As they dispute territory in the mountains of northern India. They get along about as well as the USA and Russia. Yo9u can dream all you want but there is not friendship between India and China. Infact China has some type of border dispute with all of its neighbors and everyone on the south China sea. Not really a very friendly nation.
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The real one where China and India agree on a cease fire but never ended the war. They still have skirmishes on their border where people die. One not long ago killed 54 Indians and India claimed they more Chinese than that. As they dispute territory in the mountains of northern India. They get along about as well as the USA and Russia. Yo9u can dream all you want but there is not friendship between India and China. Infact China has some type of border dispute with all of its neighbors and everyone on the south China sea. Not really a very friendly nation.
Western coping mechanism is how this post reads.
Here is a little write up from last year. Not very much fighting for about 50 years or more. As the article states, both countries have too much to lose. They don't need to be best friends in order to continue to eat away at US dominance, whether it be in concert or separately. They seem to be smart enough to know how to generally cooperate with each other.
USA/Russia is a different situation though. Russia has been an important counterbalance to worldwide US hegemonic ambitions. If the counterbalance needs adjusting, a nation like China or even India or a combination of nations can take a role...due to desperation in the US at some point it may actually come to that.
Jonas!
India-China dispute: The border row explained in 400 words
....The two countries have fought only one war, in 1962, when India suffered a humiliating defeat.
But simmering tensions involve the risk of escalation - and that can be devastating given both sides are established nuclear powers. There would also be economic fallout as China is one of India's biggest trading partners.
The military stand-off is mirrored by growing political tension, which has strained ties between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Observers say talks are the only way forward because both countries have much to lose.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53062484 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53062484)
Jonas!
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The real one where China and India agree on a cease fire but never ended the war. They still have skirmishes on their border where people die. One not long ago killed 54 Indians and India claimed they more Chinese than that. As they dispute territory in the mountains of northern India. They get along about as well as the USA and Russia. Yo9u can dream all you want but there is not friendship between India and China. Infact China has some type of border dispute with all of its neighbors and everyone on the south China sea. Not really a very friendly nation.
Only people like you, who believe the western lies and BS, talk the way you do. Is there territorial issues needing resolved and historical differences, of course. But it's nothing like the hostilities shared between the US and Russia.
The truth is, they've successfully rebuilt diplomatic and economic ties over recent times. China is India's second largest trading partner, a fellow BRICS member and they've extended their strategic and military relations.
They both understand, along with a growing group of large developing countries, that working together on global and bilateral economic concerns, is in all their interests. They're done with being told what to do, being bullied by the west and they're all working together now. They know that the west will do all it can to keep them under our heel and this has polarised the global chess board.
I'm not sure if it's possible for you to understand any of that, given your unique take on global events. You're pretty much wrong about everything and I cant see that changing, with or without help.
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Kentucky Senator Rand Paul states he will not vote for any spending bill which authorizes additional money for the War in Ukraine.
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Kentucky Senator Rand Paul states he will not vote for any spending bill which authorizes additional money for the War in Ukraine.
Putting to rest the blatant lies of the dishonest totalitarian Biden regime, Senator Paul asks, how do you "support Democracy overseas" when there won't be an upcoming Presidential election in Ukraine (Zelensky will be President of Ukraine for life?), Ukrainian secret services have been told to arrest Russian Orthodox Priests in Ukraine and shut down the church's, and the opposition parties have all been banned?
And when grenade launchers and grenades, bullet proof vests, etc. turned up in the hands of criminal organizations, the Congress would not allow oversight of the money we are sending to Ukraine, money paid for by the American taxpayer, who struggles each month to make ends meet. :o :( :sick0012:
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Kentucky Senator Rand Paul states he will not vote for any spending bill which authorizes additional money for the War in Ukraine.
Anyone who disagree with this statement is an idiot! Stop the idiotic support of this war!! If Canada, EU et al thinks otherwise then let them bleed their respective taxpayers monies dry.
If Ukraine seeks to fight for their country and independence then time to walk the talk and quit the silly dependence on anyone.
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Rampant crime in blue cities, insane inflation, loss of former allies to the BRICS, and this migrant mayhem at the boarder. Biden's Border Disaster.
What Nation in the World would tolerate this? This is one of many disasters voted for by our liberal members. Liberalism in 2020 truly was and is a mental disease.
To quote former Border Chief Rodney Scott: Biden's policies "reversed all of the progress we had made in 29 years and completely decimated border security."
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Jesse Waters: America Will Never be the Same Again. Which is exactly what the treasonous Biden regime intends.
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Jesse Waters: America Will Never be the Same Again. Which is exactly what the treasonous Biden regime intends.
If you need to get out fast there will always be a place for you here! Just let me know I will make sure everything is like paradise for you.. tiphat
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Anyone who disagree with this statement is an idiot! Stop the idiotic support of this war!! If Canada, EU et al thinks otherwise then let them bleed their respective taxpayers monies dry.
Well it seems more people are waking up. Slovakia, Poland, maybe the US to a lesser extent.
The temporary budget has no Ukraine funds. I expect Biden will find some trick maneuver to slide something over there. The US borrowing money to pay Ukrainian salaries and pensions is an absolute outrage. Interest alone on our national debt will be around 1 trillion dollars this year and it is going nowhere but higher, for 2 reasons 1. The debt is growing. 2 Interest rates are rising.
Jonas!
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The temporary budget has no Ukraine funds. I expect Biden will find some trick maneuver to slide something over there. The US borrowing money to pay Ukrainian salaries and pensions is an absolute outrage. Interest alone on our national debt will be around 1 trillion dollars this year and it is going nowhere but higher, for 2 reasons 1. The debt is growing. 2 Interest rates are rising.
In therein lies the truth.
I can see Russia happy to see out the "summer offensive" and destroy the military hardware and soldiers from behind the defensive line. Why go on there offensive when you can weaken the opposition and wait for the west to finally admit that we cant keep this current rate of spending and munition supply up?
Meanwhile, our press write even more ridiculous stories, telling us about how Putin and Co are dying, the economy is broken and Russia is about to go through a revolution.
It still amazes me that some people actually believe that crap.
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The temporary budget has no Ukraine funds. I expect Biden will find some trick maneuver to slide something over there. The US borrowing money to pay Ukrainian salaries and pensions is an absolute outrage. Interest alone on our national debt will be around 1 trillion dollars this year and it is going nowhere but higher, for 2 reasons 1. The debt is growing. 2 Interest rates are rising.
In therein lies the truth.
I can see Russia happy to see out the "summer offensive" and destroy the military hardware and soldiers from behind the defensive line. Why go on there offensive when you can weaken the opposition and wait for the west to finally admit that we cant keep this current rate of spending and munition supply up?
Meanwhile, our press write even more ridiculous stories, telling us about how Putin and Co are dying, the economy is broken and Russia is about to go through a revolution.
It still amazes me that some people actually believe that crap.
It is amazing you still believe the pro russian crap after a three day war has turned to 20 months and counting.
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It is amazing you still believe the pro russian crap after a three day war has turned to 20 months and counting.
Some people see it for what it is, and some people stick to old facts without learning.
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For what it is worth. Written from a Western and United States perspective.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-show-support-ukraine-foreign-ministers-us-budget-deal-snub-rcna118330
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It is amazing you still believe the pro russian crap after a three day war has turned to 20 months and counting.
I'm not answering that Tex because it's been addressed in detail many times before. I'd usually class this sort of stuff as trolling but unfortunately you're in a league of your own when it comes to laggards.
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For what it is worth. Written from a Western and United States perspective.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-show-support-ukraine-foreign-ministers-us-budget-deal-snub-rcna118330
Insane!
1. If the EU really is prepared to continue the support the US is moving away from, then why didn't they specify when the $24 Billion giveaway will be packaged and sent to Ukraine. The photo-op is just a huge theatrical joke! The Gathering of Morons.
2. As for the US side, those current US idiotic politicians and appointed official delegations that are vowing they will be 'continuing the support as promised' despite the US's population's demand; they need to state exactly how, what and why they're inclined to bury US taxpayers/future generations deeper in debt and its' future in support of a corrupt, authoritarian, pitiful nation who openly decimates its own citizenry.
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For what it is worth. Written from a Western and United States perspective.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-show-support-ukraine-foreign-ministers-us-budget-deal-snub-rcna118330
Insane!
1. If the EU really is prepared to continue the support the US is moving away from, then why didn't they specify when the $24 Billion giveaway will be packaged and sent to Ukraine. The photo-op is just a huge theatrical joke! The Gathering of Morons.
2. As for the US side, those current US idiotic politicians and appointed official delegations that are vowing they will be 'continuing the support as promised' despite the US's population's demand; they need to state exactly how, what and why they're inclined to bury US taxpayers/future generations deeper in debt and its' future in support of a corrupt, authoritarian, pitiful nation who openly decimates its own citizenry.
Maybe it is the person who think everyone else is Morons or idots is the real idot.
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Maybe it is the person who think(s) everyone else is (a) Moron(s) or idot(s) is the real idot.
Nah! Undoubtedly it's the one who is incapable of spelling a very simple English word (presumably in his native language much less) as bolded above, twice, in one grammatically-challenged sentence.
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For what it is worth. Written from a Western and United States perspective.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-show-support-ukraine-foreign-ministers-us-budget-deal-snub-rcna118330
Insane!
1. If the EU really is prepared to continue the support the US is moving away from, then why didn't they specify when the $24 Billion giveaway will be packaged and sent to Ukraine. The photo-op is just a huge theatrical joke! The Gathering of Morons.
2. As for the US side, those current US idiotic politicians and appointed official delegations that are vowing they will be 'continuing the support as promised' despite the US's population's demand; they need to state exactly how, what and why they're inclined to bury US taxpayers/future generations deeper in debt and its' future in support of a corrupt, authoritarian, pitiful nation who openly decimates its own citizenry.
Maybe it is the person who think everyone else is Morons or idots is the real idot.
Tex, you're definitely a real i dot. :ROFL:
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For what it is worth. Written from a Western and United States perspective.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-show-support-ukraine-foreign-ministers-us-budget-deal-snub-rcna118330
Insane!
1. If the EU really is prepared to continue the support the US is moving away from, then why didn't they specify when the $24 Billion giveaway will be packaged and sent to Ukraine. The photo-op is just a huge theatrical joke! The Gathering of Morons.
2. As for the US side, those current US idiotic politicians and appointed official delegations that are vowing they will be 'continuing the support as promised' despite the US's population's demand; they need to state exactly how, what and why they're inclined to bury US taxpayers/future generations deeper in debt and its' future in support of a corrupt, authoritarian, pitiful nation who openly decimates its own citizenry.
Maybe it is the person who think everyone else is Morons or idots is the real idot.
Considering that if you're smart, most people actually are idiots to you. So that statement is untrue
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Maybe it is the person who think everyone else is Morons or idots is the real idot.
Considering that if you're smart, most people actually are idiots to you. So that statement is untrue
You guys believe if you believe Russian propaganda, you somehow smart when in truth your just duped. Maybe you think the world will be better off throwing away western values and having extremely corrupt governments like in Russia as a better way of life. Truth if the country did not have so much oil it would be so broke it would be a fourth world copuntry.
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You guys believe if you believe Russian propaganda, you somehow smart when in truth your just duped.
Both stupid and smart people can be duped into believing something when facts are wrong.
And to all of you russian-propaganda criers, you seem to forget that the truth is often the best of the best propaganda.
Maybe you think the world will be better off throwing away western values and having extremely corrupt governments like in Russia as a better way of life. Truth if the country did not have so much oil it would be so broke it would be a fourth world country.
The Russian government is certainly no better than the Western governments for a myriad of purposes. However when you are not politically active nor filthy rich, it does not matter to the average Joe. I am certainly not satisfied with many European governments (even if I leave out the current rah-rah-UA policy). The border problems, illegal immigration, soaring prices for regular shit, the green-deal , there's so much wrong here its almost a blessing. Just a month ago I read that many Dutch pensioners are moving to Hungary.... jeeee, wasn't that a pro-Russian country ?
As to a fourth-world country, you have no idea about the first, second and third world. It has nothing to do with poverty or development reasons, only with geographical locations. Perhaps if you knew how stuff worked you wouldn't get so much grief from Rosco and others.
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Maybe it is the person who think everyone else is Morons or idots is the real idot.
Considering that if you're smart, most people actually are idiots to you. So that statement is untrue
You guys believe if you believe Russian propaganda, you somehow smart when in truth your just duped. Maybe you think the world will be better off throwing away western values and having extremely corrupt governments like in Russia as a better way of life. Truth if the country did not have so much oil it would be so broke it would be a fourth world copuntry.
What is a "copuntry"? :laugh:
Spell check is your necessary friend.
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500 poor Ukrainian men lost their lives in the battles around Robotyne yesterday, along with lots of pieces of western donated military equipment and an ammunition depot. Not a single peep of this has been discussed in the western media. We're now looking at upwards of 70,000 dead during the summer offensive alone and they've recovered less than 1% of the ground previously lost, with weeks of the fighting season left.
Ukrainian soldiers are now being transported to the front lines in convoys of civilian cars and they're being blown to pieces. It's a complete disaster.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7286433618359078176?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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Ukrainian TV shows two Zelensky's in the same room.
Zelensky had been addressing a room of delegates and politicians to rant about Russia and by the time he got onto the podium, most of the room had left. However, the production edited the speech and used footage of a full room as he spoke.
Sadly for them, the footage of the full room showed images of Zelensky, apparently listening to himself. :ROFL:
This whole thing is one big orchestrated pantomime and the citizens in the west really need to see this for what it is. There's literally a catalogue full of lies, tales and deceit, as they attempt to fool us into supporting this mess.
https://www.tiktok.com/@decentrebellious1/video/7283596973612092704?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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Ukrainian TV shows two Zelensky's in the same room.
Zelensky had been addressing a room of delegates and politicians to rant about Russia and by the time he got onto the podium, most of the room had left. However, the production edited the speech and used footage of a full room as he spoke.
Sadly for them, the footage of the full room showed images of Zelensky, apparently listening to himself. :ROFL:
This whole thing is one big orchestrated pantomime and the citizens in the west really need to see this for what it is. There's literally a catalogue full of lies, tales and deceit, as they attempt to fool us into supporting this mess.
https://www.tiktok.com/@decentrebellious1/video/7283596973612092704?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
Yeah, the UN General Assembly a week or so ago.
The German guy, Sholtz(?) was addressing an even more empty room but, as far as we know, he did not play the same game - video of him was close cropped and no cutaways.
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Russia has launched an advertising campaign, pleading with Ukrainians not to join the fight on the front lines. There are rumours that Russia will launch a massive offensive once they've weakened the Ukrainian military enough and the message here is, one last chance to save yourself.
https://www.tiktok.com/@decentrebellious1/video/7274288375295741216?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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Ukrainian MP Lesia Vasylenko was interviewed on Sky News and she accidentally let the cat out of the bad and admitted that the offensive has been a failure and at a dramatic cost. It's alleged that Sky pulled the interview from X soon after.
Whilst criticising their sponsors for not giving them enough money, weapons and munitions, she then tells us that Ukraine has re-gained less than 1% of the ground lost during the offensive and with about a month to go before they'll need to pack up. She said it's really sad news for Ukraine and all its backers whilst admitting that the generosity from the west is dwindling.
Tex will no doubt say that this interview is Russian propaganda but I think its about time, some people start seeing it for what it really is.
https://www.tiktok.com/@tiktokerii91/video/7286005494722940192?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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Here's an interview given by a Ukrainian soldier, who's admitted that the army are offering drugs to soldiers, in order to get them fighting. This bloke tells us how many soldiers are drugged up in order to get rid of their fear but it's compromised their ability to behave rationally.
There are many cases of Ukrainian soldiers killing unarmed civilians because they don't want to take risks and they're off their tits. Sounds healthy.....
https://www.tiktok.com/@decentrebellious1/video/7261334570019163419?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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Here's an interview given by a Ukrainian soldier, who's admitted that the army are offering drugs to soldiers, in order to get them fighting. This bloke tells us how many soldiers are drugged up in order to get rid of their fear but it's compromised their ability to behave rationally.
There are many cases of Ukrainian soldiers killing unarmed civilians because they don't want to take risks and they're off their tits. Sounds healthy.....
https://www.tiktok.com/@decentrebellious1/video/7261334570019163419?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
Giving soldiers, pilots etc., is nothing new or unique to Ukraine.
With one exception, it always tends to be bad for those taking them.
Just imagine, Rosco, there's you a relatively sensible bloke with almost no training in military matters, no idea of how to protect yourself in a combat zone and understanding that your sole role in the conflict is to cause the Russians to use more bullets and bombs. I reckon that unless you were drugged to the eyeballs, even at gunpoint, you'd find it hard to justify going to get shot or blown up by the Russians.
In that situation, I would find it hard to blame you if, under the influence of drugs and unfathomable stress, you killed a civilian or two. The finger of blame would have tp be pointed at those who put you in that position, untrained, unmotivated, and unready.
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There is a huge drunk problem in the Russian army and new solution to deal with it. But it seems that Russia is willing to admit there are units Russia consider expendable.
Russian President Vladimir Putin is allegedly implementing a new strategy to deal with drunken soldiers in the military.
Soldiers who engage in excessive drinking or show belligerent behavior towards their superiors are reportedly transferred to a special combat unit known as "Storm Z." This unit is said to be "expendable" and will be deployed in highly dangerous and almost certain-death missions, RadarOnline.com has learned.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-suicide-squad-vladimir-putin-deploys-drunk-soldiers-to-storm-z-combat-units-for-certain-death-missions/ar-AA1hHO2V?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=a9a6b226578041f2afe46f75532481de&ei=21
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There is a huge drunk problem in the Russian army and new solution to deal with it. But it seems that Russia is willing to admit there are units Russia consider expendable.
Russian President Vladimir Putin is allegedly implementing a new strategy to deal with drunken soldiers in the military.
Soldiers who engage in excessive drinking or show belligerent behavior towards their superiors are reportedly transferred to a special combat unit known as "Storm Z." This unit is said to be "expendable" and will be deployed in highly dangerous and almost certain-death missions, RadarOnline.com has learned.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-suicide-squad-vladimir-putin-deploys-drunk-soldiers-to-storm-z-combat-units-for-certain-death-missions/ar-AA1hHO2V?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=a9a6b226578041f2afe46f75532481de&ei=21
Quality source Tex, I'm sure it's factually correct and impartial. :chuckle:
Radar Online is an American entertainment and gossip website that was first published as a print and online publication in September 2003 before becoming exclusively online. As of 2008, the magazine has been owned by the publisher American Media Inc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_Online
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Drinking problem in the Russian army is quite well known and the causalities from it are quite large.
Western media is just great when is says what you preconceived ideas believe. It is only when it says something else that is becomes horrible like Russian medial is better.
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There probably is a small minority of Russian troops who have been abusing alcohol whilst on duty. What I call BS on is the western gossip rags who make claims about huge numbers of incompetent, drunk, abusive, ill-equipped Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine.
If that were true, the summer offensive wouldn't have been necessary and the hundreds of thousands of dead or injured Ukrainians, the huge amount of western donated equipment and the 100's of billions of dollars wouldn't have been necessary.
Unless of course the Ukrainians and their NATO handlers cant even fight drunk Russians armed with sh!t shovels.
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The tide is turning.
Will WA DC and the UK abandon their proxy war in Ukraine against Russia?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/siege-avdiivka-russian-forces-cut-all-supply-reinforcement/
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The tide is turning.
Will WA DC and the UK abandon their proxy war in Ukraine against Russia?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/10/siege-avdiivka-russian-forces-cut-all-supply-reinforcement/
Below is an assessment and some links from ISW.
Russian President Vladimir Putin may be trying to temper expectations of significant Russian advances around Avdiivka in Donetsk Oblast. Putin claimed in an interview on Russian state television on October 15 that Russian forces are conducting an “active defense” in the Avdiivka, Kupyansk, and Zaporizhia directions.[1] Putin’s characterization of Russian offensive operations near Avdiivka as an “active defense,” instead of “active combat operations” as Russian UN Ambassador Vasily Nebenzya claimed on October 13, or discussing Russian operations as an “offensive” as some milbloggers have, may be an attempt to temper expectations of significant Russian advances.[2] Russian operations including intensive artillery and airstrikes are likely intended to degrade Ukrainian forces around Avdiivka.[3] Russian forces are unlikely to make significant breakthroughs or cut off Ukrainian forces in the settlement in the near term, and potential advances at scale would likely require a significant and protracted commitment of personnel and materiel.[4]
[1] https://ria dot ru/20231015/ukraina-1902867872.html ; https://www.interfax dot ru/russia/925939 ; https://tass dot ru/politika/19017079
[2] https://tass dot ru/politika/19008301 ; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[3] https://t.me/vdv_ZA_teplinsky/146 ; https://t.me/frontbird/4025 ; https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
[4] https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign...
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The term active defence has a real meaning. It's what the Russians are doing.
Not a military expert, but my understanding is that in active defence the 'defenders' start relatively small scale offensive action along a long front. The objective is to seek areas of weakness and then move more forces into areas where probing has been effective.
We can see this happening. Lots of activity along most of the front. Breakouts that occur being exploited.
So active defence is not similar to what the Ukrainian forces tried to do - big arrow offences against predefined objectives on a very limited number of areas on the front line.
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The term active defence has a real meaning. It's what the Russians are doing.
Not a military expert, but my understanding is that in active defence the 'defenders' start relatively small scale offensive action along a long front. The objective is to seek areas of weakness and then move more forces into areas where probing has been effective.
We can see this happening. Lots of activity along most of the front. Breakouts that occur being exploited.
So active defence is not similar to what the Ukrainian forces tried to do - big arrow offences against predefined objectives on a very limited number of areas on the front line.
Though somewhat technical below is a link to the definition of of an active defense. In rather simple terms your footsie team is up 6 to 1 with twenty minutes to play. You, Ukraine, will play a passive (active defense) game and see what efforts Russia can put together. So far Russia it appears to have lost substantial heavy material and corresponding human losses with no substantial land gains per satellite imagery.
Putin, wisely so, is walking back claims of a major Russian victory. If one thinks the countries noted should be inverted than we disagree, but 6 to 1 is black and white.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_defense
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Here's a link to some updates from a source, which has so far proved very accurate, when it comes to reporting the facts on the ground.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7289733784746855713?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
You can see from the map, that Russian troops are starting to surround Avdiivka and cut off supplies to the Ukrainian forces defending the city. It appears that Russia wants to take the city for strategic value but also because the Ukrainians shelled a market in Donetsk from Avdiivka and were lucky not to kill hundreds of people.
This would be a huge loss for Ukraine, given what they've sacrificed for a couple of villages and Russia go and take a city of real strategic value, in a fairly short period of time. Of course our media choose not to discuss what's happening in Ukraine at the moment nor would they like to talk about how western weapons donated to Ukraine, ended up in the hands of Hamas.... :scared0005:
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Here's a link to some updates from a source, which has so far proved very accurate, when it comes to reporting the facts on the ground.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7289733784746855713?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
You can see from the map, that Russian troops are starting to surround Avdiivka and cut off supplies to the Ukrainian forces defending the city. It appears that Russia wants to take the city for strategic value but also because the Ukrainians shelled a market in Donetsk from Avdiivka and were lucky not to kill hundreds of people.
This would be a huge loss for Ukraine, given what they've sacrificed for a couple of villages and Russia go and take a city of real strategic value, in a fairly short period of time. Of course our media choose not to discuss what's happening in Ukraine at the moment nor would they like to talk about how western weapons donated to Ukraine, ended up in the hands of Hamas.... :scared0005:
Not only this, but if Russia gets control of avdiivka, an important railway resupply point is then blocked for Ukraine.
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Here's a link to some updates from a source, which has so far proved very accurate, when it comes to reporting the facts on the ground.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7289733784746855713?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
You can see from the map, that Russian troops are starting to surround Avdiivka and cut off supplies to the Ukrainian forces defending the city. It appears that Russia wants to take the city for strategic value but also because the Ukrainians shelled a market in Donetsk from Avdiivka and were lucky not to kill hundreds of people.
This would be a huge loss for Ukraine, given what they've sacrificed for a couple of villages and Russia go and take a city of real strategic value, in a fairly short period of time. Of course our media choose not to discuss what's happening in Ukraine at the moment nor would they like to talk about how western weapons donated to Ukraine, ended up in the hands of Hamas.... :scared0005:
Pro Ukrainian sources say it was a trap and Russia lost 4000 men and a huge bunch of equipment and had to retreat back to where they started.
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Here's a link to some updates from a source, which has so far proved very accurate, when it comes to reporting the facts on the ground.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7289733784746855713?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
You can see from the map, that Russian troops are starting to surround Avdiivka and cut off supplies to the Ukrainian forces defending the city. It appears that Russia wants to take the city for strategic value but also because the Ukrainians shelled a market in Donetsk from Avdiivka and were lucky not to kill hundreds of people.
This would be a huge loss for Ukraine, given what they've sacrificed for a couple of villages and Russia go and take a city of real strategic value, in a fairly short period of time. Of course our media choose not to discuss what's happening in Ukraine at the moment nor would they like to talk about how western weapons donated to Ukraine, ended up in the hands of Hamas.... :scared0005:
Pro Ukrainian sources say it was a trap and Russia lost 4000 men and a huge bunch of equipment and had to retreat back to where they started.
I've read that the fighting has been heavy and there's been losses on both sides but 4000 dead Russians? I'm not sure what the trap is, defending a strategic city both sides want? I would call that a battle.
Do you have a link to this pro Ukrainian source which makes these claims?
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A trap it where you let the enemy to advance to a place you know you can destroy them.
Today was good day. Ukraine use ATACM cluster missile on Russian air access. These ATACMs have limited range of only 180 KM but it is still more range than the previously had. So, some Russian air bases are still out of range and the Kerch bridge is out of range. Cluster rockets would do little to hurt the bridge any way. Russia will have to move its helicopters further away from the front line. This will give them less airtime in combat as they will have to fly further. Today on one airfield 9 helicopters were destroyed and some of four others maybe damaged as it cannot be determined from satellite images.
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A trap it where you let the enemy to advance to a place you know you can destroy them.
Today was good day. Ukraine use ATACM cluster missile on Russian air access. These ATACMs have limited range of only 180 KM but it is still more range than the previously had. So, some Russian air bases are still out of range and the Kerch bridge is out of range. Cluster rockets would do little to hurt the bridge any way. Russia will have to move its helicopters further away from the front line. This will give them less airtime in combat as they will have to fly further. Today on one airfield 9 helicopters were destroyed and some of four others maybe damaged as it cannot be determined from satellite images.
I know what a trap is Tex but I'm asking you for the details of the trap you're talking about? All other coverage talks about the city being slowly surrounded whilst being pummelled by Russian artillery and air support.
It would appear that the Ukrainians are being slowly cut off and trapped themselves and nobody would intentionally use these tactics against an attacking force unless its some kind of suicide mission.
I asked you for your sources because so far its just you telling us stories?
You are correct about the ATACMS attacks on two Russian airbases in Berdyansk and Lugansk, Putin even admitted that but the damage doesn't appear to be anywhere near as bad as you're suggesting. He also said that the Russians are working on a way to fine tune their air defence system, to protect them from further attacks and it changes little for them.
Ukraine have made claims that they destroyed 9 helicopters, ammunition dumps, fuel reserves, the runway and possibly another top Russian commander or two. Russia say that the attack was superficial.
The truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle but only a fool believes the Ukrainians when it comes to their far fetched claims, which are often proven to be exaggerated or fabricated.
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Today was good day. Ukraine use ATACM cluster missile on Russian air access. These ATACMs have limited range of only 180 KM but it is still more range than the previously had. So, some Russian air bases are still out of range and the Kerch bridge is out of range. Cluster rockets would do little to hurt the bridge any way. Russia will have to move its helicopters further away from the front line. This will give them less airtime in combat as they will have to fly further. Today on one airfield 9 helicopters were destroyed and some of four others maybe damaged as it cannot be determined from satellite images.
So we now know that this isn't true.
Russia have provided satellite evidence that only 2 helicopters were destroyed and a further 7 were damaged. The runways are intact and the airfield is fully operational. They say that Ukraine launched 9 ATACM's at the airfields and 7 were shot down. They now have valuable information on the missiles and they can now fine tune the air defence systems to counter the new threat.
ATACM's will not be changing the war and even American experts admit that this missile technology is fairly old by todays measure.
https://www.tiktok.com/@douglas.macgregor1/video/7291491506383342891?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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ATACM's will not be changing the war and even American experts admit that this missile technology is fairly old by todays measure.
The biggest difference between ATACMS and the previous missiles shipped to Ukraine is its longer range. They aren't any more difficult to shoot down than their predecessors.
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ATACM's will not be changing the war and even American experts admit that this missile technology is fairly old by todays measure.
The biggest difference between ATACMS and the previous missiles shipped to Ukraine is its longer range. They aren't any more difficult to shoot down than their predecessors.
Nailed it. Many people read fancy acronyms and assume that Ukraine have got some kind of alien technology that will destroy Russia. :thumbsup:
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Ukraine suffered their biggest losses in a single day yesterday, losing 1238 soldiers across the entire front. This brings their total losses since the Sumer offensive started, to around 100,000 souls.
The offensive is now over and it's Russia who are on the offensive in limited areas. The American based ISW have also now admitted that with the supply chain in overdrive and the arms deal with North Korea, Russia can continue the fight using the current rate of artillery fire, having previously claimed they were about to run out.
Meanwhile, Ukraine are now putting women on the front lines to fill the gaps and American weapons are being diverted towards Isreal. I think Russia will be happy to continue depleting the Ukrainian military, western weapons stocks and draw down their bank balances before making any big moves.
The Middle East drama couldn't have come at a worse time for Zelensky and our western media continue to talk down the Russians and lie about Ukrainian wins. If the sheep could only understand what's really happening, they'd be shocked and demand an end to this disaster.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7293428863638474017?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7291752918389196321
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Ukraine suffered their biggest losses in a single day yesterday, losing 1238 soldiers across the entire front. This brings their total losses since the Sumer offensive started, to around 100,000 souls.
The offensive is now over and it's Russia who are on the offensive in limited areas. The American based ISW have also now admitted that with the supply chain in overdrive and the arms deal with North Korea, Russia can continue the fight using the current rate of artillery fire, having previously claimed they were about to run out.
Meanwhile, Ukraine are now putting women on the front lines to fill the gaps and American weapons are being diverted towards Isreal. I think Russia will be happy to continue depleting the Ukrainian military, western weapons stocks and draw down their bank balances before making any big moves.
The Middle East drama couldn't have come at a worse time for Zelensky and our western media continue to talk down the Russians and lie about Ukrainian wins. If the sheep could only understand what's really happening, they'd be shocked and demand an end to this disaster.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7293428863638474017?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7291752918389196321
It would useful if the sources of information were not from random dolts that populate TikTok. Worth noting the loss of 100,000 soldiers would translate to no effective army. Below is from ISW with the satellite evidence to the statements. The simple (short) version is large areas of the frontline are static.
Russian forces conducted offensive operations near Avdiivka on October 25 and made a confirmed advance. Geolocated footage published on October 24 indicates that Russian forces advanced northwest of Krasnohorivka (5km northwest of Avdiivka).[30] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attacked near Stepove (3km northwest of Avdiivka), Avdiivka, Tonenke (5km west of Avdiivka), Sieverne (6km west of Avdiivka), and Nevelske (13km southwest of Avdiivka).[31] Ukrainian Tavriisk Group of Forces Spokesperson Colonel Oleksandr Shtupun stated on October 24 that the frequency of Russian assaults near Avdiivka has decreased.[32] A prominent Russian milblogger claimed on October 25 that Russian forces achieved “serious tactical success” on the approaches to Avdiivka and near Stepove and advanced to the railway line north of Avdiivka.[33] Another Russian milblogger claimed that Russian forces are advancing from Krasnohorivka to Novokalynove (7km north of Avdiivka).[34] Russian forces largely claimed that Russian forces controlled the Avdiivka waste heap, as did a Ukrainian military observer.[35] Ukrainian Avdiivka City Military Administration Head Vitaly Barabash denied claims that Russian forces control the Avdiivka waste heap and stated that the waste heap is a contested “gray area.”[36] Another Ukrainian military observer claimed on October 25 that Wagner Group remnants are fighting near Avdiivka, although ISW has not observed evidence of former Wagner fighters operating near Avdiivka.[37]
A Ukrainian reserve officer published satellite imagery on October 23 and confirmed that the Russian military lost over 109 military vehicles near Avdiivka between October 10 and 20.[38] The reserve officer stated that the majority of Russian losses were primarily armored fighting vehicles, such as BMP-1 and BMP-2s and MT-LBs; T-72, T-64, and T-80 tanks; BTR armored personnel carriers; and other transport vehicles. The reserve officer stated that Russian vehicle losses around Avdiivka have surpassed Russian vehicle losses during the failed Siversky Donets crossing in May 2022 and will likely surpass Russian vehicle losses in the Vuhledar area between November 2022 and April 2023. The reserve officer stated that Russian forces may have lost around a dozen additional vehicles excluded from the final count due to inconsistent imagery and noted that two unspecified independent sources estimate that Russian forces have lost around 200 military vehicles near Avdiivka.
A Russian milblogger claimed on October 24 that Ukrainian forces counterattacked and pushed Russian forces from Berdychi (10km northwest of Avdiivka).[39]
On a number of occasions I have read how Russia eliminated the air force of Ukraine. The below sums up the reality succinctly.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed on October 25 that Russian forces have downed 24 Ukrainian aircraft in the past five days, likely an inflated claim that is part of an ongoing effort to portray Russian operations as successful by overstating Ukrainian losses.[77] A Russian milblogger criticized Shoigu’s figure and noted that Russian forces would have destroyed the entire Ukrainian air force several times since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine began if the Russian MoD’s reporting on Ukrainian aviation losses were accurate.[78]
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Russian milblogger evidently unaware of the additions to the Ukrainian air force over the past 18 months or so.
Avdiivka City Military Administration Head Vitaly Barabash clearly has not seen the videos of Russian forces on the terrakon or the Russian flag in a prominent position. He has also not visited the railway line running around the bottom of the terrakon on the side of the city. Had he done so, he would have been surprised to meet a load of Russian troops and their equipment.
AvHdB obviously does not know too much about the sie of the Ukrainian (partly) armed forces or he would not have written about the Ukrainian losses in such a disparaging way.
It is always hard to be sure of what is going on. That's a given. Making claims that are in conflict with new information is useless, though. We all tend to do that because we usually do not know what we don't know.
That goes back to the idea of the unknowns and their types:
“…there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”
– Donald Rumsfeld
Most of us never think about this stuff, and that is clear from reading threads such as this one. What we can reduce and deal with are the known unknowns. If we are to try to change opinions or influence others, it makes sense to at least have a stab at reducing this category of unknowns, as I did above.
Check out this article on Medium, brief but enlightening. https://medium.com/@andreamantovani/known-knowns-known-unknowns-unknown-unknowns-leadership-367f346b0953
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It would useful if the sources of information were not from random dolts that populate TikTok.
The random dolts which populate Tiktok as far as you're concerned, are actually investigative journalists who are transparent about who they are, where they get their information from and very often who their sources are, if it can be disclosed. The chap I often use has been proven correct on so many occasions when the legacy media have lied to us. Time is the one thing that always unearths whats really happened and we can then look back and judge who's telling the truth.
I know you think that TikTok is a kids app rather than an information platform but if it helped you, feel free to gather the same information from the same journalists on a platform you're comfortable with. These guys are multi platform and you need to wrap your head around that if you want to avoid making silly statements.
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Below is from ISW with the satellite evidence to the statements. The simple (short) version is large areas of the frontline are static.
Whilst we're on about the ISW, who are so very often used as some kind of paragon of impartiality and truth, let's see who they really are. They may not be on TikTok but that doesn't mean that they don't talk absolute bollocks because they're a heinous, ridiculous conglomerate who are allowed to influence the American psyche when it comes to war.
I've boldened some names and you can probably formulate a sensible conclusion from that alone....
You might want to look them up and do a bit of digging around Kimberly Kagan. Their website & videos are slick but it's pretty much full of western propaganda and information to drive the Neo con war. The ISW is a Neo conservative think tank for the military industrial complex.
Kimberly is married to Frederick Kagan who's also in the firm and a Neo com commentator and "think tank specialist" who pushes for more wars like Syria, Libya, Ukraine and now Isreal. He's also a big anti Donald Trump guy who's vocal about his agendas. Then there's Robert Kagan, his brother who launched into Republicans for not for not being more aggressive against Donald Trump or for supporting the Ukrainian gravy train.
Robert Kagan is also a very good friend of Hilary Clinton (which should tell you everything) as his his wife.....Victoria Nuland!!!So what you have is a club of political elite who go around the world starting wars pushing from the inside and they have their friends and family (Kagans) operating the ISW from the outside, who then feed reports into the western press.....who then tell us what to think. And we think thats credible, honest, impartial and truthful :ROFL:
What an absolute shambles yet here you are questioning Tiktok as a platform whilst citing the ISW. Now tell me given what we've learned today, do you trust what the ISW tell you?
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7287527317096762657?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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On a number of occasions I have read how Russia eliminated the air force of Ukraine. The below sums up the reality succinctly.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed on October 25 that Russian forces have downed 24 Ukrainian aircraft in the past five days, likely an inflated claim that is part of an ongoing effort to portray Russian operations as successful by overstating Ukrainian losses.[77] A Russian milblogger criticized Shoigu’s figure and noted that Russian forces would have destroyed the entire Ukrainian air force several times since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine began if the Russian MoD’s reporting on Ukrainian aviation losses were accurate.[78]
Click on the link below and you'll learn more about air superiority in Ukraine and how the airforces are currently operating.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7294179187475189025?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
Basically, there's a straight line going north to south through Ukraine from Sumy all the way down to around Odessa. Anything Ukrainian which flies into the zone east of that line is being shot down by either patrolling Russian aircraft or the air defence systems. That's why the counter attack has no air support and Ukraine has limited areal strikes into the east of the country.
They've lost 13 Mig-29's and 5 SU-25's over the last few weeks, as Ukraine has desperately tried to assist their ground troops. Of course it's being kept very quiet by the western media, Ukrainian officials and of course our friends at the ISW but lets be honest, why would they tell us about this bad news? It only takes momentum away from the support Ukraine are currently receiving.
Russia effectively have total air superiority over the part of Ukraine where the conflicts happening and the destroyed aircraft used by Ukraine, are likely to be the donated aircraft received over recent months, as Europeans clean out their soviet era inventory.
Finally, there was also a huge explosion reported over in Khmelnytskyi this week, where the destroyed depleted uranium ammunition was targeted previously. The video shows a huge mushroom cloud as the storage facility was hit and important weapons removed from the battlefield.
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On a number of occasions I have read how Russia eliminated the air force of Ukraine. The below sums up the reality succinctly.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed on October 25 that Russian forces have downed 24 Ukrainian aircraft in the past five days, likely an inflated claim that is part of an ongoing effort to portray Russian operations as successful by overstating Ukrainian losses.[77] A Russian milblogger criticized Shoigu’s figure and noted that Russian forces would have destroyed the entire Ukrainian air force several times since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine began if the Russian MoD’s reporting on Ukrainian aviation losses were accurate.[78]
Click on the link below and you'll learn more about air superiority in Ukraine and how the airforces are currently operating.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7294179187475189025?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
Basically, there's a straight line going north to south through Ukraine from Sumy all the way down to around Odessa. Anything Ukrainian which flies into the zone east of that line is being shot down by either patrolling Russian aircraft or the air defence systems. That's why the counter attack has no air support and Ukraine has limited areal strikes into the east of the country.
They've lost 13 Mig-29's and 5 SU-25's over the last few weeks, as Ukraine has desperately tried to assist their ground troops. Of course it's being kept very quiet by the western media, Ukrainian officials and of course our friends at the ISW but lets be honest, why would they tell us about this bad news? It only takes momentum away from the support Ukraine are currently receiving.
Russia effectively have total air superiority over the part of Ukraine where the conflicts happening and the destroyed aircraft used by Ukraine, are likely to be the donated aircraft received over recent months, as Europeans clean out their soviet era inventory.
Finally, there was also a huge explosion reported over in Khmelnytskyi this week, where the destroyed depleted uranium ammunition was targeted previously. The video shows a huge mushroom cloud as the storage facility was hit and important weapons removed from the battlefield.
Russia largely controls the airspace over the Donbas area where there is conflict, Ukraine the balance of the country. That is understood, but the claims that Ukraine has lost 13 MiGs this month is silly. Including the donated (Poland/Slovakia) aircraft Ukraine had a maximum of 12 aircraft presently plus 6 to 8 trainers in the MiG class. These are hard numbers confirmed by Jane’s and ISW. Do you begin to comprehend how naive or stupid you sound. Tex frequently posts more intelligently.
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Below is from ISW with the satellite evidence to the statements. The simple (short) version is large areas of the frontline are static.
Whilst we're on about the ISW, who are so very often used as some kind of paragon of impartiality and truth, let's see who they really are. They may not be on TikTok but that doesn't mean that they don't talk absolute bollocks because they're a heinous, ridiculous conglomerate who are allowed to influence the American psyche when it comes to war.
I've boldened some names and you can probably formulate a sensible conclusion from that alone....
You might want to look them up and do a bit of digging around Kimberly Kagan. Their website & videos are slick but it's pretty much full of western propaganda and information to drive the Neo con war. The ISW is a Neo conservative think tank for the military industrial complex.
Kimberly is married to Frederick Kagan who's also in the firm and a Neo com commentator and "think tank specialist" who pushes for more wars like Syria, Libya, Ukraine and now Isreal. He's also a big anti Donald Trump guy who's vocal about his agendas. Then there's Robert Kagan, his brother who launched into Republicans for not for not being more aggressive against Donald Trump or for supporting the Ukrainian gravy train.
Robert Kagan is also a very good friend of Hilary Clinton (which should tell you everything) as his his wife.....Victoria Nuland!!!So what you have is a club of political elite who go around the world starting wars pushing from the inside and they have their friends and family (Kagans) operating the ISW from the outside, who then feed reports into the western press.....who then tell us what to think. And we think thats credible, honest, impartial and truthful :ROFL:
What an absolute shambles yet here you are questioning Tiktok as a platform whilst citing the ISW. Now tell me given what we've learned today, do you trust what the ISW tell you?
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7287527317096762657?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
While I find the carpet muncher Clinton disdainful and I have pity for anyone who wakes up next V. Nuland. The information of ISW is backed up by independent and frequent satellite images.
Sorry there is nothing I can do if you consider someone living in his mothers basement to be a credible source for factual news.
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Av, I have no problems with you disliking the information or having another opinion but when you dismiss the information supplied by independent journalists, who have been proven to be pretty much bang on all through the conflict, as nothing more than ramblings from discredited sources emanating from their mums basement, then it feels a little off.
The information is largely echoed by other independents, supported with satellite imagery, sources from within both Russian and Ukrainian camps, go pro footage and drone footage. We're not talking about Russian propaganda here.
But if you feel that western legacy media and the ISW is your source of truth, then run with it, it's your choice to make. However, slandering my posts and suggesting it's being delivered with less intelligence than Tex, then that's just a straight up childish insult.
I may sound stupid to you but perhaps you should read a bit more and from varied sources before hurling silly insults. Maybe show us how these reports are wrong?
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Av, I have no problems with you disliking the information or having another opinion but when you dismiss the information supplied by independent journalists, who have been proven to be pretty much bang on all through the conflict, as nothing more than ramblings from discredited sources emanating from their mums basement, then it feels a little off.
The information is largely echoed by other independents, supported with satellite imagery, sources from within both Russian and Ukrainian camps, go pro footage and drone footage. We're not talking about Russian propaganda here.
But if you feel that western legacy media and the ISW is your source of truth, then run with it, it's your choice to make. However, slandering my posts and suggesting it's being delivered with less intelligence than Tex, then that's just a straight up childish insult.
I may sound stupid to you but perhaps you should read a bit more and from varied sources before hurling silly insults. Maybe show us how these reports are wrong?
Quite frankly it is Av who is sounding like Texan.
Let's call ISW what it really is: The Institute for the Stupid Warmongers. :coffeeread:
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Av, I have no problems with you disliking the information or having another opinion but when you dismiss the information supplied by independent journalists, who have been proven to be pretty much bang on all through the conflict, as nothing more than ramblings from discredited sources emanating from their mums basement, then it feels a little off.
The information is largely echoed by other independents, supported with satellite imagery, sources from within both Russian and Ukrainian camps, go pro footage and drone footage. We're not talking about Russian propaganda here.
But if you feel that western legacy media and the ISW is your source of truth, then run with it, it's your choice to make. However, slandering my posts and suggesting it's being delivered with less intelligence than Tex, then that's just a straight up childish insult.
I may sound stupid to you but perhaps you should read a bit more and from varied sources before hurling silly insults. Maybe show us how these reports are wrong?
While I have no problem and consider both TASS and RT the evidence since the beginning of Putin’s war points to a different reality than what the above as well as ZeroHedge would like the West believe.
While too small a sample there appears to be solid support for Ukraine in North America as well as The Netherlands. Certainly I would like to see an end to the mayhem. But Putin has built the perfect mouse trap and now he can not escape it.
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But Putin has built the perfect mouse trap and now he can not escape it.
And without going round the circuit again, I respectfully disagree.
I believe that a US led NATO has been building said mouse trap but it's they, who are now stuck with very little wiggle room. Unless something dramatic happens, it looks like Russia will continue grinding out the small wins, wearing Ukraine down, destroying the soldiers and the western donated weaponry from fortified positions all whilst waiting for the West to lose interest.
As soon as that happens, it's game over for Ukraine because they're only surviving in their current entity because of western tax payers money....which is finite to say the least. The mire in the Middle East has only accelerated the likelihood of a western drawn down/exit.
Russia cannot and will not back down over Ukraine because it's their existential threat on their doorstep. American can go home when it proves too costly and unpopular.
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But Putin has built the perfect mouse trap and now he can not escape it.
And without going round the circuit again, I respectfully disagree.
I believe that a US led NATO has been building said mouse trap but it's they, who are now stuck with very little wiggle room. Unless something dramatic happens, it looks like Russia will continue grinding out the small wins, wearing Ukraine down, destroying the soldiers and the western donated weaponry from fortified positions all whilst waiting for the West to lose interest.
As soon as that happens, it's game over for Ukraine because they're only surviving in their current entity because of western tax payers money....which is finite to say the least. The mire in the Middle East has only accelerated the likelihood of a western drawn down/exit.
Russia cannot and will not back down over Ukraine because it's their existential threat on their doorstep. American can go home when it proves too costly and unpopular.
While we can debate this ad naseaum, we see the picture from different stand points. C’est la vie! I only wish there was not so much mayhem amongst innocent soldiers.
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This is a fascinating article. I thought it would be mostly pro-Russian because the blogger is Russian but it turns out that he's just bluntly honest and he doesn't seem to think Russia is going to win this war in the end. At least that's how I understand what he wrote, everyone is welcome to give their input.
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2023/10/27/kiev-will-be-taken-in-just-two-more-weeks-this-time-for-sure/
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This is a perfect summary of the situation in Ukraine.
https://www.tiktok.com/@revokefarleft/video/7299366964990905632?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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Zelensky gets ever more desperate as the West grows tired of the mess we started. I said all along that we'd drop them like a shitey nappy as soon as the fun stops. He's now begging for money and weapons and making baseless claims about borrowing stuff and doing business with America.
The west has now started to discuss the peace process having watched Ukraine commit suicide in front of the entire world. Women are being transferred to fight on the front lines as we speak, who really needs to watch this any longer? This should have happened 18 months ago and lots of poor people wouldn't be in this situation.
"Please......give us the credit and we will pay you back, please!!"
https://www.tiktok.com/@billyshow02/video/7298824265040792838?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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This is a perfect summary of the situation in Ukraine.
https://www.tiktok.com/@revokefarleft/video/7299366964990905632?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
That was as precise as it gets.
How can Ukraine claim to be Democratic when they ban opposition parties, have only one state approved TV service, ban Christian church's who happen to have a link with Russia, and say they are not going to have an election? :o
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Zelensky gets ever more desperate as the West grows tired of the mess we started. I said all along that we'd drop them like a shitey nappy as soon as the fun stops. He's now begging for money and weapons and making baseless claims about borrowing stuff and doing business with America.
The west has now started to discuss the peace process having watched Ukraine commit suicide in front of the entire world. Women are being transferred to fight on the front lines as we speak, who really needs to watch this any longer? This should have happened 18 months ago and lots of poor people wouldn't be in this situation.
"Please......give us the credit and we will pay you back, please!!"
https://www.tiktok.com/@billyshow02/video/7298824265040792838?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
This is just so sad to witness. Plain and simple...
I wonder how many of those folks who rah-rah'd behind this stupid conflict from the start and actually walked their talked and hocked their home and lot to donate to the destruction of Ukraine and people.
You just got to be sicked in the stomach to watch Zelensky 'beg' despite the tens/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, and Russians, gave their lives to this stupid, stupid war. He resembles a desperate drug addict begging for money for a fix.
To be a member of some nefariously outdated military pact Ukrainians never really wanted to be part of in the first place.
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Zelensky gets ever more desperate as the West grows tired of the mess we started. I said all along that we'd drop them like a shitey nappy as soon as the fun stops. He's now begging for money and weapons and making baseless claims about borrowing stuff and doing business with America.
The west has now started to discuss the peace process having watched Ukraine commit suicide in front of the entire world. Women are being transferred to fight on the front lines as we speak, who really needs to watch this any longer? This should have happened 18 months ago and lots of poor people wouldn't be in this situation.
"Please......give us the credit and we will pay you back, please!!"
https://www.tiktok.com/@billyshow02/video/7298824265040792838?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
This is just so sad to witness. Plain and simple...
I wonder how many of those folks who rah-rah'd behind this stupid conflict from the start and actually walked their talked and hocked their home and lot to donate to the destruction of Ukraine and people.
You just got to be sicked in the stomach to watch Zelensky 'beg' despite the tens/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, and Russians, gave their lives to this stupid, stupid war. He resembles a desperate drug addict begging for money for a fix.
To be a member of some nefariously outdated military pact Ukrainians never really wanted to be part of in the first place.
Amazing that some are so stupid or naive. From the time that L. Kuchma left office there has been a growing sense that the future of Ukraine lay with the West and NATO & the EU. It was V. Putler who signed the Budapest Memorandum that guaranteed the integrity of Ukraine. Ukraine is now on the threshold of starting negotiations to join the EU.
If the powers to be in the Kremlin would depart there would be peace in Ukraine. Instead states like North Korea, Iran and Venezuela support to genocide of the Ukraine people. It appears Putler thought that NATO would fracture, instead former neutral nations such as Finland have joined NATO. Armenia has asked Russian peace keepers to withdraw. The Russian military has trouble holding onto territory that they ‘conquered/liberated.’ The great pity is innocent soldiers are fighting and dying the war of a megalomaniac.
Way to go Vladdy!
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Amazing that some are so stupid or naive. From the time that L. Kuchma left office there has been a growing sense that the future of Ukraine lay with the West and NATO & the EU. It was V. Putler who signed the Budapest Memorandum that guaranteed the integrity of Ukraine. Ukraine is now on the threshold of starting negotiations to join the EU.
you're incredibly naive here. the EU might want that Ukraine joins but many of its member countries do not. (the net-paying countries). It will not happen until that changes. Plus I don't really see them doing the less-corruption schtick, its a non-attainable goal for Ukraine.
If the powers to be in the Kremlin would depart there would be peace in Ukraine.
No the civil war will continue, war in Ukraine will continue. Donbass + Crimea still do not want to go the pro-europe / nato route, they want to stay with the Russian sphere of influence. Or do you suggest breaking up Ukraine and giving them up.
Instead states like North Korea, Iran and Venezuela support to genocide of the Ukraine people.
No they don't , they support their own interests and stand up to Western Agression , which we here in the west ignore... strange that.
It appears Putler thought that NATO would fracture, instead former neutral nations such as Finland have joined NATO.
Uh no, all Putin wanted was that Ukraine do not NATO, as soon as they agree to that, the rest is negotiable. Getting rid of AZOV and gaining donbas is a bonus for Russia, but if not, no biggie.
The great pity is innocent soldiers are fighting and dying the war.
Thats the part everyone here on this board agrees upon with a few pro-Ukrainian exceptions. They have stated so excplicitly in messages on this board.
And calling Putin Putler is just childish, it diminishes the evil that was whilst in no way condemning Putin because he was fighting literally f*cking nazis and nobody seems to want to acknowledge that.
Mark.
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When I think about Russia....
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Zelensky gets ever more desperate as the West grows tired of the mess we started. I said all along that we'd drop them like a shitey nappy as soon as the fun stops. He's now begging for money and weapons and making baseless claims about borrowing stuff and doing business with America.
The west has now started to discuss the peace process having watched Ukraine commit suicide in front of the entire world. Women are being transferred to fight on the front lines as we speak, who really needs to watch this any longer? This should have happened 18 months ago and lots of poor people wouldn't be in this situation.
"Please......give us the credit and we will pay you back, please!!"
https://www.tiktok.com/@billyshow02/video/7298824265040792838?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
This is just so sad to witness. Plain and simple...
I wonder how many of those folks who rah-rah'd behind this stupid conflict from the start and actually walked their talked and hocked their home and lot to donate to the destruction of Ukraine and people.
You just got to be sicked in the stomach to watch Zelensky 'beg' despite the tens/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, and Russians, gave their lives to this stupid, stupid war. He resembles a desperate drug addict begging for money for a fix.
To be a member of some nefariously outdated military pact Ukrainians never really wanted to be part of in the first place.
Amazing that some are so stupid or naive. From the time that L. Kuchma left office there has been a growing sense that the future of Ukraine lay with the West and NATO & the EU. It was V. Putler who signed the Budapest Memorandum that guaranteed the integrity of Ukraine. Ukraine is now on the threshold of starting negotiations to join the EU.
If the powers to be in the Kremlin would depart there would be peace in Ukraine. Instead states like North Korea, Iran and Venezuela support to genocide of the Ukraine people. It appears Putler thought that NATO would fracture, instead former neutral nations such as Finland have joined NATO. Armenia has asked Russian peace keepers to withdraw. The Russian military has trouble holding onto territory that they ‘conquered/liberated.’ The great pity is innocent soldiers are fighting and dying the war of a megalomaniac.
Way to go Vladdy!
Ironic.
May you wallow in your eternal ignorance forevermore.
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Zelensky should’ve listened to ex-PM Bennett than ex-PM Johnson 18 months ago and could’ve kept Ukraine from further destruction and desperation we are witnessing today.
It’s gone beyond idiocy for Zelensky in his current desperation. Sad people suffered and died in this war needlessly. And this idiot want it to continue to the point his own generals now see him as delusional.
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Hard to believe this prank can happen to a nation’s leadership.
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Zelensky should’ve listened to ex-PM Bennett than ex-PM Johnson 18 months ago and could’ve kept Ukraine from further destruction and desperation we are witnessing today.
It’s gone beyond idiocy for Zelensky in his current desperation. Sad people suffered and died in this war needlessly. And this idiot want it to continue to the point his own generals now see him as delusional.
Obviously you forgot who instigated and started the ORANGE REVOLUTION.......
BTW I was there in Lvov and KIEV when with USA help started the Orange Revolution.
Do you forget the Agreemnet signed by Reagan and Gorby in Raykiavic?
Take a look to all USA Governments since then and see the high membership of Jews.
Now having lost the game in Ukraine..... you are helping Netanahu to take control of the East Med gas and oil finding with your help..
How long do you think you can continue printing your toilet Dollar currencey?
How many Trillions in deficit you have....and how long you can last??
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~ "And to make matters worse, one of the few constants over this period has been corruption, which Time says has further “strained” relations at the top. Despite some outward signals that this scourge is being dealt with, a top presidential advisor told the magazine quite frankly:
People are stealing like there’s no tomorrow.
But here, too, there is a distinct divide between Zelensky and his team. Advisors say there is a serious problem that requires much more work. Zelensky reckons that it is, in fact, among his top priorities, and that the West is simply using the issue to “cover up their failure to help Ukraine.” ~
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/zelenskys-inner-circle-shed-light-on-deluded-leadership/
This ( internal corruption), in the midst of war, chaos and mindless suffering.
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~ "And to make matters worse, one of the few constants over this period has been corruption, which Time says has further “strained” relations at the top. Despite some outward signals that this scourge is being dealt with, a top presidential advisor told the magazine quite frankly:
People are stealing like there’s no tomorrow.
But here, too, there is a distinct divide between Zelensky and his team. Advisors say there is a serious problem that requires much more work. Zelensky reckons that it is, in fact, among his top priorities, and that the West is simply using the issue to “cover up their failure to help Ukraine.” ~
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/zelenskys-inner-circle-shed-light-on-deluded-leadership/
This ( internal corruption), in the midst of war, chaos and mindless suffering.
Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
The war is mainly about corruption. Putin, his inner circle and generals all thought they were going to get rich in a few days after the war was over. It is corruption to a new level not seen is the world often. It makes anything in Ukraine look like child play. The whole government in Russia is based on corruption each level does not complain about who is above them stealing as long as they are able to steal also. Then the news does not report this because they would all end up in jail if not dead. If it was not for all the corruption in Russia, they would have won in three days.
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~ "And to make matters worse, one of the few constants over this period has been corruption, which Time says has further “strained” relations at the top. Despite some outward signals that this scourge is being dealt with, a top presidential advisor told the magazine quite frankly:
People are stealing like there’s no tomorrow.
But here, too, there is a distinct divide between Zelensky and his team. Advisors say there is a serious problem that requires much more work. Zelensky reckons that it is, in fact, among his top priorities, and that the West is simply using the issue to “cover up their failure to help Ukraine.” ~
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/zelenskys-inner-circle-shed-light-on-deluded-leadership/
This ( internal corruption), in the midst of war, chaos and mindless suffering.
Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
The war is mainly about corruption. Putin, his inner circle and generals all thought they were going to get rich in a few days after the war was over. It is corruption to a new level not seen is the world often. It makes anything in Ukraine look like child play. The whole government in Russia is based on corruption each level does not complain about who is above them stealing as long as they are able to steal also. Then the news does not report this because they would all end up in jail if not dead. If it was not for all the corruption in Russia, they would have won in three days.
I am not sure why you think this war is about corruption but feel free to assume that.
Yes certainly there is corruption in Ukraine it is part and parcel of the country. In a different way corruption exists in Russia. But in many respects the outright leader in corruption is the United States, it is just codified in a different flavour. It rarely affects Joe and Bob but rather is corporate in nature.
If you find this Utopia* please do share with us.
* Yes I deliberately chose Utopia.
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Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
I'm not sure about the 'supposed' part but Ukraine would have been a lot better off had they threw in the towel during those 72 hours you mentioned. Now that Russia has expended a lot of resources, I think they will demand a lot more in the end. Unfortunately for the US, many other non-Western nations are filling the void and often working against US interests. So, in the end, it doesn't seem we will have the free hand we were probably hoping for.
Jonas!
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Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
I'm not sure about the 'supposed' part but Ukraine would have been a lot better off had they threw in the towel during those 72 hours you mentioned. Now that Russia has expended a lot of resources, I think they will demand a lot more in the end. Unfortunately for the US, many other non-Western nations are filling the void and often working against US interests. So, in the end, it doesn't seem we will have the free hand we were probably hoping for.
Jonas!
Recent poll 82 per cent of the Ukrainians disagree with you. They support the ongoing war and their president. Higher rating than Putin or the number of Russian who support the war. They know it would be the death of most of them if they lose.
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Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
I'm not sure about the 'supposed' part but Ukraine would have been a lot better off had they threw in the towel during those 72 hours you mentioned. Now that Russia has expended a lot of resources, I think they will demand a lot more in the end. Unfortunately for the US, many other non-Western nations are filling the void and often working against US interests. So, in the end, it doesn't seem we will have the free hand we were probably hoping for.
Jonas!
Recent poll 82 per cent of the Ukrainians disagree with you. They support the ongoing war and their president. Higher rating than Putin or the number of Russian who support the war. They know it would be the death of most of them if they lose.
What are you talking about? There won't be any Ukrainians left pretty soon.
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Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
I'm not sure about the 'supposed' part but Ukraine would have been a lot better off had they threw in the towel during those 72 hours you mentioned. Now that Russia has expended a lot of resources, I think they will demand a lot more in the end. Unfortunately for the US, many other non-Western nations are filling the void and often working against US interests. So, in the end, it doesn't seem we will have the free hand we were probably hoping for.
Jonas!
Recent poll 82 per cent of the Ukrainians disagree with you. They support the ongoing war and their president. Higher rating than Putin or the number of Russian who support the war. They know it would be the death of most of them if they lose.
What are you talking about? There won't be any Ukrainians left pretty soon.
Keep reading your Russian propaganda. The country will last about as long as Russia.
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Ukraine was supposed to lose in 72 hours. Here we are almost 20 months later, and Russia is struggling to keep up. Somehow you say the USA is failing to help.
I'm not sure about the 'supposed' part but Ukraine would have been a lot better off had they threw in the towel during those 72 hours you mentioned. Now that Russia has expended a lot of resources, I think they will demand a lot more in the end. Unfortunately for the US, many other non-Western nations are filling the void and often working against US interests. So, in the end, it doesn't seem we will have the free hand we were probably hoping for.
Jonas!
Recent poll 82 per cent of the Ukrainians disagree with you. They support the ongoing war and their president. Higher rating than Putin or the number of Russian who support the war. They know it would be the death of most of them if they lose.
What poll?
Why the fear mongering here? If Russia wanted to kill off 30 million Ukrainians it would have already been done. Reality is the war has cost the US a lot of geopolitical influence. Nations like Saudi Arabia joining alliances against US interests would not have happened a few years back. Aside from the same old 'western countries', most of the world hasn't sided with us. Even within a lot of those Western countries, there is a growing desire to see the US knocked from its throne. US foments this war and aggressively sanctions of all sorts. with the dollar and debt. The world sees this and completely realizes it is too much of a risk to hold too much US related assets/debt. Russia loses people, and gains partners. US loses allies & money. As a strategic play how is this turning out as being a good thing for the US?
Jonas!
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They know it would be the death of most of them if they lose.
Now thats a fine piece of propaganda right there.
It will be the death of them if they keep going like this. The amount of death and destruction going on in this rate, means putin will win by default in the next 5 years or so. Russia can afford the same losses because it has 10x more population.
Ukraine total population
2015: 44,982,564
2023: 36,744,634
If I'm thinking most of that is from Feb 22 , the numbers are shocking.
Russia:
2015: 144,668,389
2023: 144,444,359
So even if you assume they lost 300,000 soldiers (with 100.000 births) as these numbers denominate , the end-result is not significant.
Source :
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population
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Zelensky gets ever more desperate as the West grows tired of the mess we started. I said all along that we'd drop them like a shitey nappy as soon as the fun stops. He's now begging for money and weapons and making baseless claims about borrowing stuff and doing business with America.
The west has now started to discuss the peace process having watched Ukraine commit suicide in front of the entire world. Women are being transferred to fight on the front lines as we speak, who really needs to watch this any longer? This should have happened 18 months ago and lots of poor people wouldn't be in this situation.
"Please......give us the credit and we will pay you back, please!!"
https://www.tiktok.com/@billyshow02/video/7298824265040792838?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
This is just so sad to witness. Plain and simple...
I wonder how many of those folks who rah-rah'd behind this stupid conflict from the start and actually walked their talked and hocked their home and lot to donate to the destruction of Ukraine and people.
You just got to be sicked in the stomach to watch Zelensky 'beg' despite the tens/hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, and Russians, gave their lives to this stupid, stupid war. He resembles a desperate drug addict begging for money for a fix.
To be a member of some nefariously outdated military pact Ukrainians never really wanted to be part of in the first place.
He'll be out of there within months, with his millions and the west justifying his death as another Russian political target. The democratic utopia of Ukraine is no longer.....as the democrats rig the US elections yet again.
Paddington Z must be minted by now. The end is near and Russia will win the long game but we killed lots of nasty Russians.....
What a waste for everyone......except the men in Europe who got to smash some Ukrainian P who've been living it up whilst their men are turned into mince meat.
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t was V. Putler....
It was there that the credibility was lost.
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No the civil war will continue, war in Ukraine will continue. Donbass + Crimea still do not want to go the pro-europe / nato route, they want to stay with the Russian sphere of influence. Or do you suggest breaking up Ukraine and giving them up.
Peace in the Middle East...........but let's keep sending weapons to Ukraine because Russia bad.... :dh:
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Uh no, all Putin wanted was that Ukraine do not NATO, as soon as they agree to that, the rest is negotiable. Getting rid of AZOV and gaining donbas is a bonus for Russia, but if not, no biggie.
To be fair, all Russia wanted was for Ukraine to stay out of NATO and America to stop arming nazi right wing militants who were attacking and killing civilians in the lands who didn't support the western installed government, and happened to be ethic Russian.
But the US decided they were our newest best friend for some random reason..... :-X Expensive mistake...
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I posted PM Naftali Bennett’s interview here not too long ago. It highlighted the near peace deal he orchestrated between Putin and Zelensky not two months after SMO. It was the deal smashed by the US/West convincing, and guaranteeing, Zelensky full support for a very ‘winnable’ war.
Zelensky took the bait, consented sacrificing Slavic blood for western arms and geopolitical agenda. The Biden Doctrine.
The press suppressed it as explained on the video above.
That was then, we have what we now know today. Zelensky is literally stripped bare with his ass falling apart to the point his own top military advisers are slowly distancing themselves believing him to be delusional while stealing what they can on their way out.
The US/West’s support guarantee is all but blowing in the wind in this obvious unwinnable war. Zelensky left begging for credit to anyone who would listen. Soon he’ll be left begging for attention.
I can’t help but be reminded about a historical dictator, hiding deep in a bunker during the last days of a global war, convinced he still has the upper hand despite the contrary. A truly deluded, defeated reality.
Along with him, the Biden administration owns all the spilled Slavic blood upon their hands. So, so many did not have to die had we allowed Zelensky to take that trip to Istanbul April 2022.
The world had taken notice the US’ highly hypocritical global agenda not only for its responsibility in this war, but the hypocritical unbending support for Israel’s current genocidal crusade in Gaza. Already 27 Islamic nations had come together to emphasize this reality, and with tension rising in SE Asia, the bill will soon become due for us.
Biden/Harris 2024!!
Who the phuck voted for these mofos!
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Zelensky should’ve listened to ex-PM Bennett than ex-PM Johnson 18 months ago and could’ve kept Ukraine from further destruction and desperation we are witnessing today.
It’s gone beyond idiocy for Zelensky in his current desperation. Sad people suffered and died in this war needlessly. And this idiot want it to continue to the point his own generals now see him as delusional.
It's all the poor people on both sides that have perished plus all the families....they're the real victims whilst the global muscle flexing is in play.
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They know it would be the death of most of them if they lose.
Now thats a fine piece of propaganda right there.
It will be the death of them if they keep going like this. The amount of death and destruction going on in this rate, means putin will win by default in the next 5 years or so. Russia can afford the same losses because it has 10x more population.
Ukraine total population
2015: 44,982,564
2023: 36,744,634
If I'm thinking most of that is from Feb 22 , the numbers are shocking.
Russia:
2015: 144,668,389
2023: 144,444,359
So even if you assume they lost 300,000 soldiers (with 100.000 births) as these numbers denominate , the end-result is not significant.
Source :
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population
when the war is over with there will many hundreds of billions of dollars to rebuild Ukraine. Much of it will come from captured Russian funds that is being saved for this. Millions of Ukrainians will return home from both Europe and Russia as they will be better pay work for them, Russians will want to come to Ukraine as there will better jobs available to them there than in many parts of Russia. But for now the war distorts the numbers in a negative way without considering the effects of rebuilding will have.
Much of the lost you are showing is a loss of people do to losing land. 6 million people use to live in the of Donbas that Russa occupies and a another 1.5 million in Crimea. Ukraine never had more the 44 million in the country at any time when they had all their land. The genocide Russia did in Donbas cut that number down to just to maybe 2 million. I know the dates you are claiming are after the war, but the numbers are from before 2014.
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I posted PM Naftali Bennett’s interview here not too long ago. It highlighted the near peace deal he orchestrated between Putin and Zelensky not two months after SMO. It was the deal smashed by the US/West convincing, and guaranteeing, Zelensky full support for a very ‘winnable’ war.
Zelensky took the bait, consented sacrificing Slavic blood for western arms and geopolitical agenda. The Biden Doctrine.
The press suppressed it as explained on the video above.
That was then, we have what we now know today. Zelensky is literally stripped bare with his ass falling apart to the point his own top military advisers are slowly distancing themselves believing him to be delusional while stealing what they can on their way out.
The US/West’s support guarantee is all but blowing in the wind in this obvious unwinnable war. Zelensky left begging for credit to anyone who would listen. Soon he’ll be left begging for attention.
I can’t help but be reminded about a historical dictator, hiding deep in a bunker during the last days of a global war, convinced he still has the upper hand despite the contrary. A truly deluded, defeated reality.
Along with him, the Biden administration owns all the spilled Slavic blood upon their hands. So, so many did not have to die had we allowed Zelensky to take that trip to Istanbul April 2022.
The world had taken notice the US’ highly hypocritical global agenda not only for its responsibility in this war, but the hypocritical unbending support for Israel’s current genocidal crusade in Gaza. Already 27 Islamic nations had come together to emphasize this reality, and with tension rising in SE Asia, the bill will soon become due for us.
Biden/Harris 2024!!
Who the phuck voted for these mofos!
BC and mhr7.
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Why should Ukraine acquiesce to a little bully? Russia has repeatedly in every incarnation proven to be governed by terrorists, thugs and criminals. Ukraine has not forgotten the Holdomor. The only peace will come when Russia returns to the borders as defined in the Budapest Memorandum. No where is a statement, guarantee or promise that did not allow Ukraine to pursue its own policies and foreign goals.
The Kremlin made its own rat trap, enjoy. Tough luck Vladdy.
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when the war is over with there will many hundreds of billions of dollars to rebuild Ukraine. Much of it will come from captured Russian funds that is being saved for this. Millions of Ukrainians will return home from both Europe and Russia as they will be better pay work for them, Russians will want to come to Ukraine as there will better jobs available to them there than in many parts of Russia. But for now the war distorts the numbers in a negative way without considering the effects of rebuilding will have.
Fantastical points. Russia would NEVER permit their confiscated funds to be used against their interests without severe repercussions.
If Russia winds up with a large part of Ukraine annexed into Russia, they have paid a price in blood for it. I think Trump would have paid a trillion dollars for Greenland, which would have been a better investment than 100's of billions in these wars.
I doubt many Ukrainians will be returning to Ukraine for decades, it will likely be too dangerous for a decade of two, and by then their already dwindling numbers will be much smaller. Maybe the Chinese or Indian natives will start to set up shop, but the young Ukrainians are all being killed off, so they will not be having many kids. Why was it so important that the US continue to prolong this war....a war that it was clear Russia would fight to the end?
Jonas!
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Fantastical points. Russia would NEVER permit their confiscated funds to be used against their interests without severe repercussions.
They already have.
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Fantastical points. Russia would NEVER permit their confiscated funds to be used against their interests without severe repercussions.
They already have.
No
Funds are currently in limbo. If/when they are taken and used against Russian interests, I would suspect Russia will reciprocate....maybe even bite off a larger portion of Ukraine than they otherwise would have.
Jonas!
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Fantastical points. Russia would NEVER permit their confiscated funds to be used against their interests without severe repercussions.
They already have.
No
Funds are currently in limbo. If/when they are taken and used against Russian interests, I would suspect Russia will reciprocate....maybe even bite off a larger portion of Ukraine than they otherwise would have.
Jonas!
Taken at beginning of war. this is a big part why Russia does not use dollars as we can take them. Plan is to rebuild Ukraine with them after war.
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I just found this on MSN.com.
Quote
Possibility of Avdiivka's Fall
"According to Vendla, the primary short-term objective of the Russian forces is to seize Avdiivka in the Donetsk region.
"By capturing Avdiivka, Russia could declare a political victory of sorts. But there's also a practical benefit. It is a relatively densely populated area, otherwise known as the gateway to Donetsk, and controlling it would greatly aid in logistics organization," the officer pointed out."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russians-take-the-initiative-bad-news-from-ukraine/ar-AA1jLIKJ?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=051d30788cc84bf08ff4d94a3e0b7a3a&ei=11
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Taken at beginning of war. this is a big part why Russia does not use dollars as we can take them. Plan is to rebuild Ukraine with them after war.
Russia can bypass dollars as many other countries also starting to do as well. This is where unjust & aggressive dollar diplomacy has backfired.
I suspect that Russia will not permit their confiscated money to be spent in a way that is harmful to them without extracting consequences. I don't think there is a plan to rebuild Ukraine in the way you seem to be describing. It seems more and more likely that Ukraine will either be in a perpetual losing battle, or under Russian control. If that is the case, those dollars the US have facilitated the confiscation of will wind up being returned. We may wind up getting some small concession from Russia, kind of like the money returned to Iran recently.
Jonas!
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Taken at beginning of war. this is a big part why Russia does not use dollars as we can take them. Plan is to rebuild Ukraine with them after war.
You really are living in your own fantasy world. The assets have been 'frozen' , but not 'disowned' There was some talk in Belgium about it, and immediatly court-cases started by and won by the oligarchs of Russia that owned them.
In fear of more court-cases, this has not been repeated and the funds remain in limbo.
And perhaps something Avhdb knows more about , the super-yachts owned by Oligarchs also remain in limbo but nobody is paying for their repair/maintenance/docking. Which is also starting to become a huge problem for the ports where they are anchored.
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Taken at beginning of war. this is a big part why Russia does not use dollars as we can take them. Plan is to rebuild Ukraine with them after war.
It'll be private equity used to rebuild Ukraine with lots of profit being made but only after the country is consolidated by the west.....and I cant see that ever happening.
Then let's consider the possibility that Ukraine gets to join NATO and the EU and Russia somehow lets that happen. Ukrainians will just move west because why live in a poor corrupt destroyed country when you can live anywhere in Europe.
It would end up being filled with Asians and Africans and Ukraine will be another western sh!t hole, overrun by the 3rd world. The France of the east..... :sick0012:
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Here's the reality of what's going on behind the protection of the media. Men being kidnapped on street corners, no elections, no official state of war, corruption and now they're arresting priests for praying.
Here's a video showing goons shoving pregnant women around and arresting priests from the Russian Orthodox Church because he prayed for all soldiers......
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7300489957737532705?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7291752918389196321
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And here's a really interesting blog from the wife of a Ukrainian soldier. She goes into detail about the theft, corruption, human and weapons trafficking going on in Ukraine.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7300540257831750944?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7291752918389196321
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Zelensky from a few years back when he did what he did best, comedy. He talks about Ukraine begging, stealing and taking money from other countries. It's in their whole system and rotten from top to bottom.
How apt given what he now does today.....
"You give us your money and we do not return it to you, 100% guaranteed".
https://www.tiktok.com/@itallstartswithin/video/7300268216264445189?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7291752918389196321
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Zelensky
There’s a part of me that feel a deepened sadness for the man. One day soon, and that moment cannot be sooner, he’ll come to terms and sober up from his state of worldwide adoration drunkenness and realize the reality of what he had done to a country and people needlessly.
A short flight trip to Istanbul. A day taken out of his intoxicating rise to global celebrity status, could’ve saved hundreds of thousands of Slavic youths and the loss of innocence. One day short, one day missed in exchange for thousands of lifetimes.
What a waste.
From a Superhero reduced to a Slavic welfare queen. Made in U.S.A.
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Stop sending young Ukrainians to die, Musk tells Zelensky
https://www.rt.com/news/587045-musk-zelensky-advice-counteroffensive/
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A 69 year old Russian orthodox priest who was being kept under house arrest for being a priest, was served with papers to go and fight on the front lines. Upon attempting to challenge the military commissar, to complain about this repeated attempt to recruit, his lawyer told him that they at first denied it and then hid behind their tyranny.
They can indefinitely hold and beat up individuals who don't comply, it's illegal to visit the facilities to protest and it's illegal to take pictures of it and go to the media. This isn't being reported in the west and our leaders continue to encourage this atrocity.
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7300919157309115681?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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And this will be the beginning of the end, of western interest in Ukraine. Sky News has announced today that their live feed covering up to date events, which has been running daily since the start of the conflict, has been paused for the time being. The feed had been dropping down to the foot of the page, almost impossible to find but as of tomorrow, it's gone. No doubt stored in the cellar next to the covid 19 one.
It's now all about Isreal and everyone is fed up of the Ukrainian conflict. The west.....sorry Ukraine isn't winning and the virtue signallers have moved onto Palestine. It starts with the news and ends with the withdrawal of funding......
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And this will be the beginning of the end, of western interest in Ukraine. Sky News has announced today that their live feed covering up to date events, which has been running daily since the start of the conflict, has been paused for the time being. The feed had been dropping down to the foot of the page, almost impossible to find but as of tomorrow, it's gone. No doubt stored in the cellar next to the covid 19 one.
It's now all about Isreal and everyone is fed up of the Ukrainian conflict. The west.....sorry Ukraine isn't winning and the virtue signallers have moved onto Palestine. It starts with the news and ends with the withdrawal of funding......
Sad but true. Soon enough Zelensky will head off to a mansion in Miami or Spain and blame everyone except himself.
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Taken at beginning of war. this is a big part why Russia does not use dollars as we can take them. Plan is to rebuild Ukraine with them after war.
It'll be private equity used to rebuild Ukraine with lots of profit being made but only after the country is consolidated by the west.....and I cant see that ever happening.
Then let's consider the possibility that Ukraine gets to join NATO and the EU and Russia somehow lets that happen. Ukrainians will just move west because why live in a poor corrupt destroyed country when you can live anywhere in Europe.
It would end up being filled with Asians and Africans and Ukraine will be another western sh!t hole, overrun by the 3rd world. The France of the east..... :sick0012:
Eastern France - country of rainbow.
I have already told my Ukrainian friend one year before - Corruption is even more destructive than Russian Invasion.
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Stop sending young Ukrainians to die, Musk tells Zelensky
https://www.rt.com/news/587045-musk-zelensky-advice-counteroffensive/
Has he told the same words to Russia leaders? No.
Never trust what this guy tells media. He is just the same as other huge wealthy billionaires. He only cares his own benefits. Ukrainian or Russian lives are not his concern.
He even told Taiwanese to surrender to China Communist.
Don't forget that he ran from South Africa to USA for freedom and wealth.
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Methinks most on this forum realize this now: Ukraine would have been better off to ignore any advice from Washington DC.
https://scotthorton.org/interviews/11-9-23-ted-snider-ukraine-would-have-fared-better-without-washington/
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Ukraine has lost the war.
https://original.antiwar.com/ted_snider/2023/11/06/ukraine-has-lost-the-war/
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As Ukraine losses the war the Russians have generously given land on the South side of Dnieper around and near Kherson to Ukraine. I guess this is so the Russian soldiers can speak directly to Ukrainian soldiers.
Oh wait didn’t Putin say Kherson was now Russian and a few days latter Zelensky was in the city.
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As Ukraine losses the war the Russians have generously given land on the South side of Dnieper around and near Kherson to Ukraine. I guess this is so the Russian soldiers can speak directly to Ukrainian soldiers.
Oh wait didn’t Putin say Kherson was now Russian and a few days latter Zelensky was in the city.
Did you see how much that is? A small part of a village.
What seems to be happening is that the Kievan forces are unable to do more than get a few guys at a time to Krymenaya (SP?) using light,fast boats. There is no chance to bring in the equipment to do anything. Losses seem to be running at about 50% per week, and there are about 500 men there.
If one's strategy is to reduce the forces opposing one, then this operation should be allowed to continue as it is effective. Not only does it cause huge losses in the village, but there are also high losses on the concentrations on the opposite bank of the river.
It can be rather easy to see the faintest glow of a distant candle as a huge flare if the flare is what one needs to see. But more likely, one is seeing the faint glow of a distant candle.
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As Ukraine losses the war the Russians have generously given land on the South side of Dnieper around and near Kherson to Ukraine. I guess this is so the Russian soldiers can speak directly to Ukrainian soldiers.
Oh wait didn’t Putin say Kherson was now Russian and a few days latter Zelensky was in the city.
Did you see how much that is? A small part of a village.
What seems to be happening is that the Kievan forces are unable to do more than get a few guys at a time to Krymenaya (SP?) using light,fast boats. There is no chance to bring in the equipment to do anything. Losses seem to be running at about 50% per week, and there are about 500 men there.
If one's strategy is to reduce the forces opposing one, then this operation should be allowed to continue as it is effective. Not only does it cause huge losses in the village, but there are also high losses on the concentrations on the opposite bank of the river.
It can be rather easy to see the faintest glow of a distant candle as a huge flare if the flare is what one needs to see. But more likely, one is seeing the faint glow of a distant candle.
Russian MIL bloggers indicate a force operating at Battalion strength with equipment. I recognize these bloggers see a Tsunami when most would see just another wave on the beach.
Further ISW indicates skirmishes, I think a number of days will tell the actual reality. But based on the facts that Putin claimed Kherson and less than a week latter Zelensky visited Ukraine forces in command and full control of Kherson. I have more confidence in fact based reality than some gnome who inhabits his mothers basement.
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They are limited to light arms. They do not have boats to transport heavy weapons. They had a light personel carrier, but it was destroyed a few days ago.
The 'strength' does not mean much. It's like a patient bleeding out on an operating table. He might have 5 liters of blood in him - but that's only because he is being transfused with 5 liters every hour. That's not a sustainable situation. The patient will die.
The attrition rate is huge. The Russians are not able to stop all the small, fast boats. However, what we do not know is how many men are being killed before they even get on the boats. The Russians seem to be doing pretty well at attriting (horrible word) the Ukrainian forces on the villages on the far bank of the Dnieper. The Ukrainian side must keep concentrating forces to supply more meat and blood to the other side of the river.
Bear in mind the overarching strategy of the Russians is to reduce the fighting capabilities of the Ukrainian forces. This suits that purpose quite nicely. Men go over, get killed, more come, more get killed. That's a much more effective use of Russian resources than going across the river to get the opposing army.
All that noted, it may not have been the Russian plan to allow this to happen, but the situation certainly serves Russian military goals. More Ukrainian soldiers are dying with a small foothold in Krynky than if they were not in the village and both sides were glomming on each other from opposite banks of the river.
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Reality has begun to sink in, albeit far far too late for too many poor Ukrainians. Western analysts and politicians have started the process of strategy change.
The Ukrainian regime of course still demand more money and more weapons from the west to continue the fight, and rightly so given they were convinced to go to war with Russia but ultimately whilst their bar tab is being paid by the west, they'll be required to stop drinking when the west stops the tab.
Sky News have now started to talk about cease fires, huge Ukrainian losses, limited Western support, Russian ability to see it through and the uncomfortable truth regarding the failed offensive costing hundreds of billions, hundreds of thousands of dead and zero success.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-live-updates-blog-12541713
The wind down has begun......even if they aren't yet admitting defeat.
Ukraine urged to adopt new strategy - which includes a ceasefire.
Kiev should rethink its war strategy, moving from attack to defence and setting itself up for ceasefire talks if it wants to keep the support of the West, analysts have argued.
In an article for Foreign Affairs, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass, and former National Security Council official, Charles Kupchan, say political willingness to support the war has "begun to erode" in the US and Europe.
At the same time, they say Ukraine's counteroffensive appears to have stalled - meaning Kiev must rethink its strategy.
This reveals an "uncomfortable truth", they say, "that Ukraine and the West are on an unsustainable trajectory, one characterised by a glaring mismatch between ends and the available means".
The analysts say the US should now lead efforts to forge a new policy with "attainable goals" - for example, one which centres on negotiating a ceasefire with Russia and switching its military emphasis from offence to defence.
'Near-term priorities need to shift'
"Kiev would not give up on restoring territorial integrity or holding Russia economically and legally accountable for its aggression, but it would acknowledge that its near-term priorities need to shift from attempting to liberate more territory to defending and repairing the more than 80% of the country that is still under its control," the authors say.
They argue this shift would limit losses of Ukrainian soldiers, allow it to direct more resources to long-term defence and reconstruction, and also shore up Western support.
It would also stop Russia from believing it can outlast the West's willingness to support Ukraine, they say.
"That realisation may eventually convince Moscow to move from the battlefield to the negotiating table - a move that would be to Ukraine's ultimate advantage, since diplomacy offers the most realistic path for ending not only the war but also, over the long term, Russia's occupation of Ukrainian territory," they say.
The suggestion is an uncomfortable and controversial one, and similar strategies have been rejected by Ukrainian officials.
But the analysts add: "The West should not press Ukraine to give up on restoring its 1991 borders or on holding Russia responsible for the death and destruction that its invasion has caused.
"Yet it must seek to convince Ukrainians that they need to adopt a new strategy to pursue these objectives."
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New Slovakian government set to stop military aid to Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-live-updates-blog-12541713
A new government in Slovakia, led by Prime Minister Robert Fico, is pledging to stop sending military aid to Ukraine. Fico won an election in September - but his government was not confirmed by parliament until today.
He was appointed prime minister for the fourth time by President Zuzana Caputova on 25 October, leading a three-party coalition of leftists and nationalists.
The coalition's policy programme, adopted last week, includes Fico's campaign pledge to halt Slovakia's official military aid to Ukraine.
However, it will continue to recognise Ukraine's international borders.
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They are limited to light arms. They do not have boats to transport heavy weapons. They had a light personel carrier, but it was destroyed a few days ago.
The 'strength' does not mean much. It's like a patient bleeding out on an operating table. He might have 5 liters of blood in him - but that's only because he is being transfused with 5 liters every hour. That's not a sustainable situation. The patient will die.
The attrition rate is huge. The Russians are not able to stop all the small, fast boats. However, what we do not know is how many men are being killed before they even get on the boats. The Russians seem to be doing pretty well at attriting (horrible word) the Ukrainian forces on the villages on the far bank of the Dnieper. The Ukrainian side must keep concentrating forces to supply more meat and blood to the other side of the river.
Bear in mind the overarching strategy of the Russians is to reduce the fighting capabilities of the Ukrainian forces. This suits that purpose quite nicely. Men go over, get killed, more come, more get killed. That's a much more effective use of Russian resources than going across the river to get the opposing army.
All that noted, it may not have been the Russian plan to allow this to happen, but the situation certainly serves Russian military goals. More Ukrainian soldiers are dying with a small foothold in Krynky than if they were not in the village and both sides were glomming on each other from opposite banks of the river.
What you missed is the Russian rocket launcher that managed to get through that cause the Ukraine so much trouble has been destroyed. Russia is having trouble bringing new equipment into the area because is the wet conditions and Ukrainians drones bombs everything that moves on the roads. New light armor has already crossed the river. Surely not a won battle but not a lost one neither.
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They are limited to light arms. They do not have boats to transport heavy weapons. They had a light personel carrier, but it was destroyed a few days ago.
The 'strength' does not mean much. It's like a patient bleeding out on an operating table. He might have 5 liters of blood in him - but that's only because he is being transfused with 5 liters every hour. That's not a sustainable situation. The patient will die.
The attrition rate is huge. The Russians are not able to stop all the small, fast boats. However, what we do not know is how many men are being killed before they even get on the boats. The Russians seem to be doing pretty well at attriting (horrible word) the Ukrainian forces on the villages on the far bank of the Dnieper. The Ukrainian side must keep concentrating forces to supply more meat and blood to the other side of the river.
Bear in mind the overarching strategy of the Russians is to reduce the fighting capabilities of the Ukrainian forces. This suits that purpose quite nicely. Men go over, get killed, more come, more get killed. That's a much more effective use of Russian resources than going across the river to get the opposing army.
All that noted, it may not have been the Russian plan to allow this to happen, but the situation certainly serves Russian military goals. More Ukrainian soldiers are dying with a small foothold in Krynky than if they were not in the village and both sides were glomming on each other from opposite banks of the river.
What you missed is the Russian rocket launcher that managed to get through that cause the Ukraine so much trouble has been destroyed. Russia is having trouble bringing new equipment into the area because is the wet conditions and Ukrainians drones bombs everything that moves on the roads. New light armor has already crossed the river. Surely not a won battle but not a lost one neither.
Are you suggesting that Russia had one single rocket launcher to defend their positions and Ukraine destroyed it, so Russia are in trouble? And now Ukraine has air superiority and are destroying absolutely everything on the Russian side?
(:)
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And here's the truth about the Dnipro river crossings, the massacre of the Ukrainian troops and the lies about the success coming from the comedian.
It's just more feel good propaganda being delivered as Ukraine try to win the PR war. Meanwhile students, the disabled and women are being sent to the front lines to replace the dead.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7302791471009172769?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7300717320502560288
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Read Russian propaganda all you want. Russia is slowly losing ally as it losses influence.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-partner-uzbekistan-cuts-ties-opts-for-western-aircraft/ar-AA1kjJyo?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=c84a62c7293e42a58e43a8cfe93638c8&ei=87
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Nope, there's more shit to come. The Ukrainian people are being warned up for the conscription of kids, pensioners, and more women.
Hypocritical handwringing performances aside, there's too much loot to be wrought out of the whole thing by too many people in Ukraine and elsewhere.
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Nope, there's more shit to come. The Ukrainian people are being warned up for the conscription of kids, pensioners, and more women.
Hypocritical handwringing performances aside, there's too much loot to be wrought out of the whole thing by too many people in Ukraine and elsewhere.
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Read Russian propaganda all you want. Russia is slowly losing ally as it losses influence.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-partner-uzbekistan-cuts-ties-opts-for-western-aircraft/ar-AA1kjJyo?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=c84a62c7293e42a58e43a8cfe93638c8&ei=87
Would that be why the Russian economy is running at a surplus whilst the west and especially the US, is further pushed into more debt? Ukraine have lost, the west is looking for an exit and Russia are sitting it out, destroying NATO toys and poor Ukrainians, waiting for their big move.
I'd suggest you start getting used to reality rather than living out a pipe dream, you've been spoon fed by your masters.
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Nope, there's more shit to come. The Ukrainian people are being warned up for the conscription of kids, pensioners, and more women.
Hypocritical handwringing performances aside, there's too much loot to be wrought out of the whole thing by too many people in Ukraine and elsewhere.
The Ukrainians published a video of their female fighters on the front line. I saw it today. Apparently, it was published yesterday.
This comes after the Russians published a video of their guys storming a trench. The guy taking the video was disgusted to come across a dead woman who had been fighting in the trenches. And no, she wasn't there by accident. She was fighting alongside the men.
So much for what we had been told just a short time ago: that women who were conscripted would be in rear areas, freeing up men to fight at the front.
Now, please, let nobody try to tell us that the Ukrainian army has not had huge casualties. These women would not be there if there were men to take their place. Also, it means the propaganda now coming out of Kiev about mobilising women, kids, and pensioners as something for the future is nothing of the kind. While some attitude adjustment may happen, this is already happening. Propaganda is running behind reality on this occasion.
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This is what is happened in Kherson area. It does not look like a loss for Ukraine like Shoigu has been saying. You have to know that he fired the general in charge for letting Ukraine get to such a foot hold on the east bank. Now Ukraine holds four areas on the east bank and for Russia to get rid of them they will need to take troops for elsewhere causing those areas to be in greater risk.
The trouble with the Waggner group was over Shoigu corruption and keeping funds that should gone into the war efforts. Wagger group was complaining that his corruption was what was killing so many of his men. India had to stop sending money to Russia for weapons research because Shoigu was stealing so much of it. Then after thinking about, they pretty much have stopped buying weapons from Russia all together. When Pro Russian bloggers started to complain about the losses on the east bank of the Dnipro River the Shoigu issued this statement about Ukraine losses which were exaggerated for political reasons. Now Ukraine occupies four regions on the east bank and is working on trying to make gains.
Statements by the very corrupt Shoigu have little real value as to what is really happening. Pro-Russian bloggers try to pick up on what he says and support this as much as they can. Ukraine has very real foot hold on the east bank which was the goal of the operation. They have at least two pontoon bridges set up and supplying.
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Nope, there's more shit to come. The Ukrainian people are being warned up for the conscription of kids, pensioners, and more women.
Hypocritical handwringing performances aside, there's too much loot to be wrought out of the whole thing by too many people in Ukraine and elsewhere.
The Ukrainians published a video of their female fighters on the front line. I saw it today. Apparently, it was published yesterday.
This comes after the Russians published a video of their guys storming a trench. The guy taking the video was disgusted to come across a dead woman who had been fighting in the trenches. And no, she wasn't there by accident. She was fighting alongside the men.
So much for what we had been told just a short time ago: that women who were conscripted would be in rear areas, freeing up men to fight at the front.
Now, please, let nobody try to tell us that the Ukrainian army has not had huge casualties. These women would not be there if there were men to take their place. Also, it means the propaganda now coming out of Kiev about mobilizing women, kids, and pensioners as something for the future is nothing of the kind. While some attitude adjustment may happen, this is already happening. Propaganda is running behind reality on this occasion.
She dies in a trench or die when the Russian kill her. When Russia captures a city now, they kill everyone in it including babies. Wake up to the war Russia is conducting. You ought to see what Russia does to the women who belong to their service. They are passed around among officers as sex slaves then expected work all day. That is a big part of why there is so little medical staff in the Russian army. AS far as I know they are not mobilizing women but many of them have volunteered. Yes, I have seen videos of women fighting on the front lines for Ukraine. Yes sadly some of them get killed.
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When Russia captures a city now, they kill everyone in it including babies.
Jesus Christ, somebody help this old man. :'(
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Coo, I bet some old Texan has a very fruity taste in pron.
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The Loans and banking in Russia today topic has been moved to Investment & Business Discussion (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?board=45.0).
https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=30371.0 (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=30371.0)
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When Russia captures a city now, they kill everyone in it including babies.
Jesus Christ, somebody help this old man. :'(
When Russia clears a city now the throw to grenades in every room break the door down and shoot everyone inside whether they are dead or live. That is everything that ever moved. This started with Waggner and now is standard Russian military. You expect Russian propaganda would explain this.
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When Russia captures a city now, they kill everyone in it including babies.
Jesus Christ, somebody help this old man. :'(
When Russia clears a city now the throw to grenades in every room break the door down and shoot everyone inside whether they are dead or live. That is everything that ever moved. This started with Waggner and now is standard Russian military. You expect Russian propaganda would explain this.
I would expect anyone with a brain and 2 working braincells immediatly disproves this as propaganda and not true.
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When Russia captures a city now, they kill everyone in it including babies.
Jesus Christ, somebody help this old man. :'(
When Russia clears a city now the throw to grenades in every room break the door down and shoot everyone inside whether they are dead or live. That is everything that ever moved. This started with Waggner and now is standard Russian military. You expect Russian propaganda would explain this.
Does that include the cat and pet hamster ?
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When Russia captures a city now, they kill everyone in it including babies.
Jesus Christ, somebody help this old man. :'(
When Russia clears a city now the throw to grenades in every room break the door down and shoot everyone inside whether they are dead or live. That is everything that ever moved. This started with Waggner and now is standard Russian military. You expect Russian propaganda would explain this.
Does that include the cat and pet hamster ?
NO the Russian soldiers eat them.
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I would expect anyone with a brain and 2 working braincells immediatly disproves this as propaganda and not true.
I am genuinely unsure whether Texan77 is trolling us or whether he actually believes the tripe he shares here.
I would love to see where he gets this stuff from.
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I am genuinely unsure whether Texan77 is trolling us or whether he actually believes the tripe he shares here.
I would love to see where he gets this stuff from.
I've thought about this too.
Many people are emotionally invested in the conflict and terrible things do continue to happen on a daily basis but his rather warped take on events is completely detached from reality.
Is he trolling or has his media done a proper job on him? That is the question.
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I am genuinely unsure whether Texan77 is trolling us or whether he actually believes the tripe he shares here.
I would love to see where he gets this stuff from.
I've thought about this too.
Many people are emotionally invested in the conflict and terrible things do continue to happen on a daily basis but his rather warped take on events is completely detached from reality.
Is he trolling or has his media done a proper job on him? That is the question.
Tex lives in a fantasy world. The writing is on the wall.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/peter-van-buren-ukraine-war-just-about-over
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It is the rest of you that live in the fantasy world. Russia wants to destroy western wealth and influence and you guys say nice Russia while you live in the west. Do you have any idea what this means? Second the days of Russia going into a city and not destroying and killing everything are long over. The good news is they are not taking over many cities.
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It is the rest of you that live in the fantasy world. Russia wants to destroy western wealth and influence and you guys say nice Russia while you live in the west. Do you have any idea what this means? Second the days of Russia going into a city and not destroying and killing everything are long over. The good news is they are not taking over many cities.
Most of the people who live in the Donbas region speak Russian and want to be part of Russia.
Is the USA going to butt-out and let there be Peace by letting the people get what they want?
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To which recent cities do you refer? You senile duffer.
There, I made a choice. I reached a conclusion about your cognitive skills. You're not trolling.
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Here's an interview from a senior Kiev official, who claims that Ukraine was ready to accept neutrality and not join NATO in 2022 to avoid death and destruction but Boris and the UK came along and demanded war. It's the first time since the conflict started that we're beginning to see cracks in the narrative and now we know why our paid media and government are so keen to have our support, feeding us propaganda in order to hate Russia.
Quite a few members here have been saying this all along yet others simply seem unable to wrap their head around the big picture. Link below for the interview. The report is from RT but the interview is real and straight from the horses mouth......we're unlikely to see the BBC or CNN supplying with this information for obvious reasons.
Meanwhile Ukraine has around half a million dead or injured soldiers, 20% of the country under Russian control, many areas destroyed beyond repair and the west is facing a cost of living crisis and unsustainable levels of debt. Good job everyone...... :-\
https://www.tiktok.com/@bobbybobby5466/video/7305450741525663008?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7278657483995072032
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What I can not understand that so many deny the legitimacy of the nation of Ukraine.
If Vladdy held to agreements that he signed none of this would have happened. Please let’s not use the empty Caveat of NATO is a threat. There are hardly any Russian troops or equipment left on the border with Finland and the Baltic nations. Köningsberg has few military forces left. They are now getting bloody noses or worse in Ukraine.
Putin has done more to isolate Russia and recreate the Cold War. CONGRATULATIONS!
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If Vladdy held to agreements that he signed none of this would have happened.
Or Ukraine hadn't listened to the West and had abided by the Minsk agreements.
There are hardly any Russian troops or equipment left on the border with Finland and the Baltic nations. Köningsberg has few military forces left. They are now getting bloody noses or worse in Ukraine.
How naive yet there's the Russians still fighting on the Golan heights keeping Syria legitimate.
]What I can not understand that so many deny the legitimacy of the nation of Ukraine.
What a childish position to adopt. You still think this conflict is about the legitimacy of Ukraine? Did you not listen to the Ukrainian officials interview?
Will we talk about the legitimacy of Iraq, Libya, Syria or Afghanistan as nations or are we so superior, NATO can waltz in and kill millions because it suited us?
Putin has done more to isolate Russia and recreate the Cold War. CONGRATULATIONS! [/size][/font]
Within the west. Meanwhile its polarised the world and Russia has gained support in their perceived fight against western imperialism.
You should speak to some folks who aren't quite as white as you or I and you'll find that they have quite the opposite opinion from yourself.
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Interesting article. What is more interesting is the hundreds of comments from Yanks , worth reading. Looks like most of the US is sick to the teeth of the comedian.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-interview-ukraines-zelenskyy-says-050313106.html
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It's looking like crunch time for Ukraine, with US funding almost running out and no new package in place. Zelensky is due to beg to US senators today after Congress rejected Biden's October pledge for another $106 billion. No cash equals the collapse of Ukraine.
White House budget director Shalanda Young, in a letter to Mike Johnson, Republican speaker of the House of Representatives, and other congressional leaders, said cutting funding and a flow of weapons would "kneecap Ukraine on the battlefield" and increase the likelihood of Russian victories.
Ms Young added: "I want to be clear: without congressional action, by the end of the year we will run out of resources to procure more weapons and equipment for Ukraine and to provide equipment from US military stocks.
"There is no magical pot of funding available to meet this moment.
"We are out of money - and nearly out of time."
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-live-updates-sky-news-blog-12541713
I think Russia's strategy now is to wear down the West whist continuing to deplete the Ukrainian forces. With the Middle East in such a mess, Biden and his war hawks appear to have bitten off more than they can chew. If the funding does go through, where does that leave an already struggling US economy? Not exactly better off that's for sure but it depends on how much they hate Russia and if they can afford to carry on with their project.
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Vitally Klitcho have more than a few choice words for Z. Accused him of lying about the war and a failed leader.
Hari Kari would be fitting and an honorable way out the door now.
How the heck is Ukraine paying US taxpayers now? :-\ Sheeesh.
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Even the BBC are now reporting the absolute hell the Ukrainians are experiencing instead of recycling the feel good, made up tales spun by the Ukrainian Government. Here's an article covering the Dnipro river assault where some Ukrainians have made it to the east bank, as they continue cling to a foothold. Zelensky and the government tell us about the success and how they're driving the Russians back but that's a very different tale to the ones told by the Ukrainians on the ground.
Ukraine war: Soldier tells BBC of front-line 'hell
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67565508
Outnumbered and outgunned, one front-line soldier has given a sobering account of Ukraine's struggle to cling on to its foothold on the east bank of the vast Dnipro river.
His account, sent via a messaging app, speaks of troop boats blown out of the water, inexperienced reinforcements and a feeling of abandonment by Ukraine's military commanders.
"The entire river crossing is under constant fire. I've seen boats with my comrades on board just disappear into the water after being hit, lost forever to the Dnipro river. "We must carry everything with us - generators, fuel and food. When you're setting up a bridgehead you need a lot of everything, but supplies weren't planned for this area. "We thought after we made it there the enemy would flee and then we could calmly transport everything we needed, but it didn't turn out that way."When we arrived on the [eastern] bank, the enemy were waiting. Russians we managed to capture said their forces were tipped off about our landing so when we got there, they knew exactly where to find us. They threw everything at us - artillery, mortars and flame thrower systems. I thought I'd never get out."
President Volodymyr Zelensky has been keen to talk up this offensive, framing it as the beginning of something more.
Ukraine's General Staff reported in its daily update on Sunday that its forces were maintaining their positions on the eastern bank of the Dnipro, and were inflicting "fire damage on the enemy's rear".
This soldier's testimony, however, reveals splits between Ukraine's government and its generals over the state of the war
"Every day we sat in the forest taking incoming fire. We were trapped - the roads and paths are all riddled with mines. The Russians cannot control everything, and we use it. But their drones are constantly buzzing in the air, ready to strike as soon as they see movement. "Supplies were the weakest link. The Russians monitored our supply lines, so it became more difficult - there was a real lack of drinking water, despite our deliveries by boat and drone. "We paid for a lot of our own kit - buying generators, power banks and warm clothes ourselves. Now the frosts are coming, things will only get worse - the real situation is being hushed up, so no-one will change anything. "No-one knows the goals. Many believe that the command simply abandoned us. The guys believe that our presence had more political than military significance. But we just did our job and didn't get into strategy.
"Several brigades were supposed to be posted here, not individual companies - we just don't have enough men. "There are a lot of young guys among us. We need people, but trained people, not the green ones we have there now. There are guys who had spent just three weeks in training, and only managed to shoot a few times. "It's a total nightmare. A year ago, I wouldn't have said that, but now, sorry, I'm fed up. "Everyone who wanted to volunteer for war came a long time ago - it's too hard now to tempt people with money. Now we're getting those who didn't manage to escape the draft. You'll laugh at this, but some of our marines can't even swim."
"I got out after getting concussed from a mine, but one of my colleagues didn't make it - all that was left of him was his helmet. "I feel like I escaped from hell, but the guys who replaced us last time got into even more hell than us. "But the next rotation is due. My time to cross the river again is soon."
Poor b@stards all whilst we virtue signal in the west, supporting our governments who made sure this war happened.
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Rosco, thanks for posting that information. This is also very interesting.
https://www.rt.com/news/588565-uk-ukraine-peace-talks/
PS.
My favorite part of the article are the comments. This one is golden. :laugh:
"It's probable that all of this would have been prevented if it wasn't for an obese pom who can't keep his pants fly zipped up (which might suggest where his brains are). Along with all living ex POTUS, Blair and Netanyahu, BOJO should be forced to stand in a Hague courtroom."
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Rosco, thanks for posting that information. This is also very interesting.
https://www.rt.com/news/588565-uk-ukraine-peace-talks/
PS.
My favorite part of the article are the comments. This one is golden. :laugh:
"It's probable that all of this would have been prevented if it wasn't for an obese pom who can't keep his pants fly zipped up (which might suggest where his brains are). Along with all living ex POTUS, Blair and Netanyahu, BOJO should be forced to stand in a Hague courtroom."
I would love to have read the article but I cant access RT in the UK because our government sensors and channels our information sources. :scared0005:
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Rosco, thanks for posting that information. This is also very interesting.
https://www.rt.com/news/588565-uk-ukraine-peace-talks/
PS.
My favorite part of the article are the comments. This one is golden. :laugh:
"It's probable that all of this would have been prevented if it wasn't for an obese pom who can't keep his pants fly zipped up (which might suggest where his brains are). Along with all living ex POTUS, Blair and Netanyahu, BOJO should be forced to stand in a Hague courtroom."
I would love to have read the article but I cant access RT in the UK because our government sensors and channels our information sources. :scared0005:
The netherlands also censor it, but only by not allowing the computer to translate www.rt.com into its real internet address (DNS).
If you change the DNS provider to 8.8.4.4 instead of your ISP's theres a good chance you can see rt.com without interruption. (and if not, yandex's dns will work)
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Meanwhile in the NOT-western world:
Abu-Dhabi welcomes Putin on his state-visit over there. (Is shown in western news as a footnote)
on Twitter/Newsfeeds from others:
Huge russian flag in the sky put there by jet-smoke , fanfare, party, a true and huge welcome wagon.
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If anyone thinks war is not hell on earth this from Rosco’s BBC article sums it up succinctly.
BBC Russian recently spoke to some Russian troops who are defending the riverbank in that area. They said it was "suicide" for their soldiers to move there, saying they had lost many men in the fight and that they cannot dislodge the Ukrainians from their foothold. Ukraine's military meanwhile says it wants to target Russian supply lines and force them back enough from the river to protect civilians from shelling.
It means both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers are absorbing a lot of fire.
"Mostly our losses were mistakes - someone didn't climb in that trench quickly enough; another guy hid badly. If someone isn't switched on, he'll be immediately targeted from everywhere.
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Rosco, thanks for posting that information. This is also very interesting.
https://www.rt.com/news/588565-uk-ukraine-peace-talks/
PS.
My favorite part of the article are the comments. This one is golden. :laugh:
"It's probable that all of this would have been prevented if it wasn't for an obese pom who can't keep his pants fly zipped up (which might suggest where his brains are). Along with all living ex POTUS, Blair and Netanyahu, BOJO should be forced to stand in a Hague courtroom."
I would love to have read the article but I cant access RT in the UK because our government sensors and channels our information sources. :scared0005:
"British diplomats may soon start to put pressure on Ukraine to hold peace negotiations with Russia, Politico's UK editor has suggested, citing “chatter” in diplomatic circles. Wider media reports suggest that the West has grown concerned at Kiev’s ability to score a battlefield victory.
Speaking on Monday on the latest episode of the ‘Politics at Jack and Sam’s’ podcast, Jack Blanchard noted that “Ukraine’s big counteroffensive was not anything like the success people hoped, and that is raising big questions about Ukraine’s ability to win this war in any meaningful military way.”
In light of this, Blanchard claimed that there are rumors in British “diplomatic circles” about “putting pressure on Kiev to sit down and negotiate.”
His comments come on the heels of a Washington Post article claiming that Ukraine ignored a counteroffensive strategy devised by American and British officers that recommended a focused attack on a single sector of frontline in April, and that it chose to delay the operation until June, and to spread its forces along multiple axes.
Moscow still ready for talks with Kiev – Kremlin
Read more Moscow still ready for talks with Kiev – Kremlin
“Nothing went as planned,” the Post stated, adding that Ukraine’s insistence on following its own tactics and timeline generated “friction and second-guessing between Washington and Kiev.”
According to the latest figures from the Russian Defense Ministry, Ukraine has lost 125,000 service personnel and 16,000 pieces of heavy equipment in the six months since its counteroffensive began.
Blanchard is not the first journalist to claim that Kiev’s patrons are ready to push for peace. Last month, German tabloid Bild alleged that the US and Germany are rationing their weapons deliveries to Ukraine in a bid to nudge Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky into talks with Russia, without explicitly asking him.
The US State Department dismissed Bild’s report, with spokesman James O’Brien stating that the decision of when to sue for peace “is a matter for Ukraine to decide.”
Speaking at the Halifax Security Forum in Canada several days before that report was published, Aleksey Danilov, the secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, said that “Ukraine is concerned by the fact that discussions among certain partners have intensified regarding the need for negotiations…with the Russians.”
Danilov insisted, like Zelensky repeatedly has since the start of the conflict, that “Ukraine and the Ukrainian people will fight to the end. We are sure of our victory.”
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Ukrainians are not going to forget this nor allow it to be whitewashed.
https://cepa.org/article/kremlins-war-on-history-targets-holodomor-remembrance/
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Biden's warning of attack on NATO ally draws response from Russia. Joe Biden's claim that Vladimir Putin would attack a NATO ally if successful in Ukraine has drawn a sharp response.
"If Putin takes Ukraine, he won't stop there," Mr Biden warned US lawmakers yesterday amid the funding impasse we've been reporting on this week.
Russia's ambassador to the US posted on Telegram saying the US president's words were "unacceptable".
Anatoly Antonov said: "In an attempt to add fuel to the fire of the Ukrainian war by proxy, they have completely lost touch with reality, easily talking about the likelihood of a direct clash between the armed forces of our countries. "This kind of provocative rhetoric is unacceptable for a responsible nuclear power. "Let me emphasise: Washington and its insatiable military-industrial complex are the direct beneficiaries of the bloodshed in Ukraine. This is confirmed by the latest package of weapons allocated today for the needs of the crazed neo-Nazis in Kiev. "Isn't it time for the local authorities to come to their senses and stop wreaking havoc around the world just to save themselves from the decline of American hegemony?"
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russian-opposition-leader-calling-for-ukraine-ceasefire-and-why-putin-may-be-letting-him-speak-freely-12541713
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Abu-Dhabi welcomes Putin on his state-visit over there.
He is heading over to Iran next. Guess he is there to discuss human rights, an independent press and free elections.
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The US State Department dismissed Bild’s report, with spokesman James O’Brien stating that the decision of when to sue for peace “is a matter for Ukraine to decide.”
:smokin:
Well, at least our current administration hasn't lost its morbid sense of (dark) humor (Where's Boris hiding these days?).
That statement is about as *hysterical* as Israel declaring bombing Gaza to oblivion, killing thousands of helpless, unarmed civilians in a box, as their way of fighting for freedom and democracy while automatically subjecting each and every tax-paying American complicit to this current genocidal excursion.
Spreading 'American-styled Freedom and Democracy' one global ethnic cleansing at a time!
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Zelensky's ex advisor, Alexey Arestovich has posted a video telling us that "We have chosen the wrong side" in the conflict between the globalists and the realists.
The west talks about Putin being isolated on the international stage yet a fanfare was put on for him in Saudi and Qatar whilst the German President was left waiting on his plane for 30 mins before a delegate came out to meet him.
Putin speaks openly at the G20 and other international forums and Russia continues to grow whilst the west is close to financial meltdown.
https://www.tiktok.com/@die_nwo/video/7309207107381906720?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7309824689026450977
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Here's a video showing Ukrainian militia rounding up men at a gym/spa in Ukraine. The forced conscription continues as the west still turns a blind eye to the human rights abuses.
Until the last Ukrainian indeed.....
https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsinua/video/7310542759063031073?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7309824689026450977
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Blinken openly calls the tragedy in Ukraine a win win and an opportunity for US economic growth. At least they're not even trying to hide it anymore.....
https://www.tiktok.com/@frontline_focus/video/7310176431827356959?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7309824689026450977
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That confirms that war is just business for the US.
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That confirms that war is just business for the US.
It is often said that war is the continuation of politics by other means. In general, I would say that seems appropriate. However, for the United States, war seems, in recent decades, to be a continuation of business by other means.
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Here's the video of the Russians capturing a Ukrainian soldier who turns out to be a pregnant woman........seriously. How sad is this getting?
She cries dont shoot me I'm pregnant and the Russians instantly stop and ask her what the hell she's doing out there, before helping her. Well done Zelensky and well done the West.....a new low.
https://www.tiktok.com/@realclaytonmorris/video/7304453158103698720?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7309824689026450977
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Here's the video of the Russians capturing a Ukrainian soldier who turns out to be a pregnant woman........seriously. How sad is this getting?
She cries dont shoot me I'm pregnant and the Russians instantly stop and ask her what the hell she's doing out there, before helping her. Well done Zelensky and well done the West.....a new low.
https://www.tiktok.com/@realclaytonmorris/video/7304453158103698720?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7309824689026450977
Will you ever stop showing this ridicules stuff. Russia makes these movies as propaganda and have been doing so since 2013. The picture are simply actors.
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Here's the video of the Russians capturing a Ukrainian soldier who turns out to be a pregnant woman........seriously. How sad is this getting?
She cries dont shoot me I'm pregnant and the Russians instantly stop and ask her what the hell she's doing out there, before helping her. Well done Zelensky and well done the West.....a new low.
https://www.tiktok.com/@realclaytonmorris/video/7304453158103698720?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7309824689026450977
Will you ever stop showing this ridicules stuff. Russia makes these movies as propaganda and have been doing so since 2013. The picture are simply actors.
It's widely reported that women, younger people, and pensioners are now being drafted. You'll not find it on Yahoo or MSN though, so it must be fake, eh?
It makes you wonder once they have fed everyone they can into the meat grinder, and everyone else has fled, as a mostly empty failed state, what happens next? Give Lvov to Poland and make what remains part of the EU and fill it up with third-world gimmegrants?
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When the EU lets Ukraine join their bandwagon ... the jobs are already waiting for every one..
Cleaners, shit scrapers, loo cleaners , street cleaners and so on... https://www.indeed.com/q-housekeeping-cleaning-l-german,-va-jobs.html?vjk=8cab41b5ac25fa19
All those people looking for a better life, better salaries .. 3 bedroom house, the Labrador .. education.. the EU dream are in for one hell of a big surprise..
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It turned out that the woman in that video was not conscripted (or a volunteer) while pregnant. She'd become impregnated while in service.
That said, a few months ago, the Ukrainian army was in the process of seeking suppliers for body armour to fit pregnant women. That seemed like madness to me, but the source and content seemed to be genuine.
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This is the heinous mess BC's president subjected all of us to.
Now the clown is raising the bar for conscription; the old, the meek, the mentally unstable, and of course - women...just so they can throw more live bait into suicide missions.
Unbelievable!
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Truth about the failed counter offensive.
https://www.rt.com/russia/589437-russian-general-ukraine-counteroffensive/
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The scales have tipped.
https://www.rt.com/russia/588937-russia-ukraine-preparing-winter-battles/
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This should be no surprise after the sinking of the ship in Crimea.
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Here's Tucker giving Americans a reality check;
"You are being told lies"
- The Russian army is incompetent.
- Ukraine is a democracy
- Putin is Hitler, taking over the world
- Ukraine are winning
This is literally what people like Tex believe..... :ROFL:
https://www.tiktok.com/@zakharova582/video/7319433887506042118?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7318793083084473888
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Here's a short video detailing all the NATO equipment captured and recovered by the Russian army in Ukraine, confirmed by both sides. I'd imagine that this is exactly the reason why the west won't want to 'donate' their best and newest military aid, giving away trade secrets to the 'enemy'.
Most of the equipment has been abandoned by fleeing Ukrainians, running away from the fight.
There was probably degree of arrogance in assuming this western tech would wipe out the inept Russian army who fight with shovels. Recovering all this equipment helps Russia, China and others understand how we engineer our products but also how to destroy or evade them.
In the case of the captured HIMARS units, Russia were able to study them and find a vulnerability within the set-up. This has allowed the Russian air defence systems to operate at a heightened efficiency and shot most of them down.
Another own goal for the war hawks whilst Z demands we send more.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warfrontveiw/video/7318131562027994374?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7318793083084473888
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And slowly the truth begins to surface.
Hero of Ukraine and commander of an AFU battalion Kyrylo Veres said that Ukraine was now losing the war on all fronts. - Are we winning or losing the war? - If we talk about all fronts, we are losing everywhere. - Where are we winning? - I do not know where.
I'm sure CNN, Biden or Tex will tell us something else but I'll listen to the AFU battalion commander thanks.
https://www.tiktok.com/@macthehat/video/7322459935260937505?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7318793083084473888
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Ukrainian men are dressing up as women in order to avoid the forced mobilisation. I'm not sure if this is funny, clever or just sad.
https://www.tiktok.com/@zakharova3335/video/7323943534988512517?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7318793083084473888
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An American journalist who exposed the Biden family and Zelensky, died in Ukrainian custody after apparently being tortured.
Gonzalo Lira, an American citizen and journalist of Chilean decent who had been exposing corruption in Ukraine, has reportedly died whilst in custody of the Ukrainian forces. Some of the topics covered included Hunter Biden's corrupt business operations in Ukraine and how they were tied to the puppet president Volodymr Zelensky and the Neo-nazi Azov Battalion.
According to Tucker Carlson, Lira's father confirmed his son recently passed away in a Ukrainian prison where he "was being held for the crime of criticising the Zelensky and Biden regimes".
Gonzalo was a US citizen but the Biden administration clearly supported his imprisonment and torture. His father predicted several weeks ago that his son would be killed.
Lira had been posting on social media, discussing the issues and documenting his attempted escape over the border into Hungary before he was hinted down and caught. Russia has said that the US were fully aware of his troture and death. Lot's online and the socials to support this story, before Tex steals propaganda.....
https://tass.com/politics/1732139?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com
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Bodine published elsewhere on RUA a video regarding this matter. It left allot more questions than answers. I can find no videos commenting or critical on Zelensky. But I tired of searching. It is known that he lived in Kharkov, married to a Ukrainian woman there. He published a fair amount of seriously misogynistic videos, rather revolting. He claims to have skipped bail and biked in under two weeks about 1,250 kilometers from Kharkov to the Ukrainian/Hungarian border where he attempted to cross the border. Certainly the border in the Carpathians is porous but if he is fearful of EU and the West why not flee to Trandniester or Belarus? He smoked during the video and it looked like he would he be hard pressed to manage 2 kilometers in a day.
He was arrested for sending images of Ukrainian defensive positions to the Russian military. This is called treason for the challenged. He died in prison not at the hands of Ukrainian soldiers or fellow prisoners but due to ill health and from complications of pneumonia.
The few videos that remain show a very proRussian standpoint. My guess there is something missing.
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An American journalist who exposed the Biden family and Zelensky, died in Ukrainian custody after apparently being tortured.
Gonzalo Lira, an American citizen and journalist of Chilean decent who had been exposing corruption in Ukraine, has reportedly died whilst in custody of the Ukrainian forces. Some of the topics covered included Hunter Biden's corrupt business operations in Ukraine and how they were tied to the puppet president Volodymr Zelensky and the Neo-nazi Azov Battalion.
According to Tucker Carlson, Lira's father confirmed his son recently passed away in a Ukrainian prison where he "was being held for the crime of criticising the Zelensky and Biden regimes".
Gonzalo was a US citizen but the Biden administration clearly supported his imprisonment and torture. His father predicted several weeks ago that his son would be killed.
Lira had been posting on social media, discussing the issues and documenting his attempted escape over the border into Hungary before he was hinted down and caught. Russia has said that the US were fully aware of his troture and death. Lot's online and the socials to support this story, before Tex steals propaganda.....
https://tass.com/politics/1732139?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com
First off, I would hardly classify 'Coach Red Pill' a journalist. Likely, IMO, a 'blogger'. A journalist to me is an 'objective' non-bias news reporter. Gonzalo Lira is anything but a non-bias, objective journalist.
Having said this, he did carry and believe his own opinion about the war in Ukraine and what he believes as to the cause of it. Is this worthy of getting arrested much less dying for? Not to me...
He was, according to him, only 5.5 kilometers away from the Hungarian border where he planned on getting to Hungary and declare political asylum. According to his last recorded video (https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29799.msg551353/topicseen.html#msg551353), he had very little faith on getting through yet he felt it was his best chance to do so. He also knew what awaits him at his scheduled trial, what the verdict is going to be including his ultimate fate once he gets there. He detailed his options and crossing the border at the check point was, according to him, the least of all evil. He did asked a favor in the video that if his death followed shortly after that video that he hopes an uproar would rise in the aftermath of his demise.
Why not I guess. Jamal Khoshoggi's death did and he was 'just' a long time US resident. Gonzalo is a 'US citizen'. Maybe chalk that one up to the 'Trump' effect.
Funny thing too about his 'cause of death'. Very likely it will be one of those things where we will never really know the truth.
Look at this tweet 1 day ago: https://twitter.com/SarahAshtonLV/status/1746792345625067580
14 hours after that post, from the same person: https://twitter.com/SarahAshtonLV/status/1746708292293074965
Sarah enlisted herself to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. I leave any theory to the readership.
https://rumble.com/v46r2kw-sarah-a.-cirillo-gonzalo-lira-died-of-natural-causes...-he-smoked-too-much.html
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Thank you Mr. B for the update.
I attempted to nuance my above commentary. Have an appointment shortly and will study your links tonight or tomorrow.
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Source : Telegraaf.nl (big newspaper in Netherlands)
Switzerland has agreed to host an international peace summit on Ukraine at the request of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Neutral Switzerland has previously been a mediator in resolving conflicts and could now help find a solution to the war that started when Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, 2022.
Further details about the summit are being worked out. No date has been announced yet. Zelensky, visiting Switzerland, did hint who is welcome. “We are open to all countries that respect our sovereignty and territorial integrity.” He hopes that African, South American and Asian countries will also participate. He specifically mentioned China: "It is important for us to show that the whole world is against Russian aggression, and the whole world is for a just peace."
So its not a peace summit at all, but rather a see-how-russia-does-not-want-peace ..... talks.
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Source : Telegraaf.nl (big newspaper in Netherlands)
Switzerland has agreed to host an international peace summit on Ukraine at the request of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Neutral Switzerland has previously been a mediator in resolving conflicts and could now help find a solution to the war that started when Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, 2022.
Further details about the summit are being worked out. No date has been announced yet. Zelensky, visiting Switzerland, did hint who is welcome. “We are open to all countries that respect our sovereignty and territorial integrity.” He hopes that African, South American and Asian countries will also participate. He specifically mentioned China: "It is important for us to show that the whole world is against Russian aggression, and the whole world is for a just peace."
So its not a peace summit at all, but rather a see-how-russia-does-not-want-peace ..... talks.
Exactly. He wants a pity party, a forum to complain, an opportunity to beg for more free stuff and a chance of winning more sponsors whilst isolating Russia. That aint a peace summit.
A peace summit would involve the Russians and the beginning of a conversation, hopefully leading to a cease fire agreement. As it stands, it looks like Russia might need to ramp things up if they can and remove Zelensky if they want to end the war.
Unfortunately that means more dead people.
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An American journalist who exposed the Biden family and Zelensky, died in Ukrainian custody after apparently being tortured.
Lira aka "Coach Red Pill" was living in Kharkov with his Ukr wife/gf and their two kids. He was a "journalist" in the same way that I am a "money manager" - he had a youtube channel and I have a brokerage account that I manage my IRA through.
Lira concluded that the best course of action for Ukraine was to surrender, which he repeated, often and loudly, to anyone who would listen. He may, or may not, have intentionally (or not) broadcast information about Ukr Army troop locations and movements.
He was asked to leave the country, but did not. After he was arrested, he was released, and given back his passports (USA & Chile), his Chilean Identity Card, his motorcycle registration, etc. He was NOT fitted with an ankle monitor, as he had been told he would be.
This was UKR low-key telling him to scram, but he didn't realize it. When he was returned to prison, he other prisoners told him "Hey, dummy. The were trying to get you to leave, that's why they gave you all of that stuff back." He claims to have been tortured by other prisoners at the behest of the government.
He was in poor heath to begin with, not in good shape (skinny fat), and he was a heavy smoker. He had double pneumonia and a bad ticker.
I have been to Ukr three or four times since the war began. Ukrainians treat Americans like we are angels sent to help them. I have had random Ukrainians thank me for being there. I was in Pyanna Vishina waiting in line when a woman with fluent English struck up a convo with me and waited with me and then acted at my translator to help me get what I wanted (I have handled this transaction many times on my own, but I wasn't going to stop her).
So yeah, the last think Ukr wants is a dead American, particularly if they killed him, so that doesn't add up. All the guy had to to was STFU and MHOFB and he would have been fine, but he couldn't manage it.
B/B
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All the guy had to to was STFU and MHOFB and he would have been fine, but he couldn't manage it.
B/B
He didnt want to shut up, he wanted his opinion heard. I don't know whether or not Ukr killed him or his pneumonia(or other sickness) did. But not having good living conditions (biking 100km/daily outside for 2 weeks) certainly will not have helped his health except towards death.
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An American journalist who exposed the Biden family and Zelensky, died in Ukrainian custody after apparently being tortured.
Lira aka "Coach Red Pill" was living in Kharkov with his Ukr wife/gf and their two kids. He was a "journalist" in the same way that I am a "money manager" - he had a youtube channel and I have a brokerage account that I manage my IRA through.
Lira concluded that the best course of action for Ukraine was to surrender, which he repeated, often and loudly, to anyone who would listen. He may, or may not, have intentionally (or not) broadcast information about Ukr Army troop locations and movements.
He was asked to leave the country, but did not. After he was arrested, he was released, and given back his passports (USA & Chile), his Chilean Identity Card, his motorcycle registration, etc. He was NOT fitted with an ankle monitor, as he had been told he would be.
This was UKR low-key telling him to scram, but he didn't realize it. When he was returned to prison, he other prisoners told him "Hey, dummy. The were trying to get you to leave, that's why they gave you all of that stuff back." He claims to have been tortured by other prisoners at the behest of the government.
He was in poor heath to begin with, not in good shape (skinny fat), and he was a heavy smoker. He had double pneumonia and a bad ticker.
I have been to Ukr three or four times since the war began. Ukrainians treat Americans like we are angels sent to help them. I have had random Ukrainians thank me for being there. I was in Pyanna Vishina waiting in line when a woman with fluent English struck up a convo with me and waited with me and then acted at my translator to help me get what I wanted (I have handled this transaction many times on my own, but I wasn't going to stop her).
So yeah, the last think Ukr wants is a dead American, particularly if they killed him, so that doesn't add up. All the guy had to to was STFU and MHOFB and he would have been fine, but he couldn't manage it.
B/B
Ukrainians treat Americans like we are angels sent to help them. How sad can that be. Is that the reason Americans are flocking to Ukraine in search of a young wife (teenager) hoping she will be so desperate that she will marry a guy 40 year olde then himself.. How sad..
But it seems despite the war and despite being an angel from heaven they always come back empty handed..
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bb, Lira did 'scram'. He was not allowed to leave the country and was imprisoned after attempting to cross the border.
Trolling or underinformed?
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Gonzalo Lira’s indictment is available online. Translated in English, it reads:
‘production and distribution of materials containing the justification, recognition as legitimate, [or] denial of the armed aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine’.
Treasonous acts or espionage were not the cause of his arrest. He was allowed free on bail awaiting his trial. He was incarcerated between May to July 2023. They’d taken away his social media use while awaiting trial. He wrote about his medical condition after release but was ignored both by US/Chile and of course, Ukraine.
Ukrainian reports had him dying in a hospital in Kharkov of natural causes. You can also say he was thrown in prison by natural causes.
He was apprehended crossing the Hungarian border. Clear across Ukraine roughly <1,300 km. He was then immediately driven across Ukraine by natural causes.
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He didnt want to shut up, he wanted his opinion heard.
Should left pics/vids of Ukr troops and troop movements out of his social media. Or, I dunno, left the country. If you are in a foreign country, you have to play by their rules (offer not valid for rapey migrants in the West). If your health, particularly your pulmonary health, sux, focus more on quitting smoking, and less on drawing negative attention.
But not having good living conditions (biking 100km/daily outside for 2 weeks) certainly will not have helped his health except towards death.
Then don't be a prisoner. That was 100% optional on his part.
bb, Lira did 'scram'. He was not allowed to leave the country and was imprisoned after attempting to cross the border.
Trolling or underinformed?
I'm using Lira's own words, Andrew.
Bear in mind that I have sources in Ukraine that you do not. It's not all that difficult to cross illegally if you want to. In a discussion as to how it could be done (unrelated to Lira) a friend of mine who is a dual national explained to me how to do it. Bear (further) in mind that Ukraine is the largest country fully in Europe, they have long borders and they are otherwise occupied with an invading force in their East. Entry/Exit, for the determined emigrant, is basically on the honor system.
Ukrainians treat Americans like we are angels sent to help them. How sad can that be. Is that the reason Americans are flocking to Ukraine in search of a young wife (teenager) hoping she will be so desperate that she will marry a guy 40 year olde then himself.. How sad..
But it seems despite the war and despite being an angel from heaven they always come back empty handed..
No idea. You seem to be getting a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. As an agency guy, you should know that most guys - the overwhelming majority - do not travel and I suspect that there are even fewer guys who to Ukraine now.
If any of this is directed at me, personally, (a) any romantic relationships I may (or may not) currently have with UA women were started prior to the war, and (b) I tend to keep my personal business off the board and (c) you are simply drawing a negative conclusion for your own purposes, despite being (AFAIK) married to a Russian woman and living in Russia - but evidently anyone ELSE who is involved with a Ukr/Slavic woman is somehow "sad". But hey, you do you.
B/B
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bb, trolling or underinformed?
Shortly before attempting to cross the border, he made a video. It was not published until after he attempted to leave. He clearly did not expect to succeed in his attempt. That was why he chose to delay the publication of the video.
He had also been in contact with his contacts to attempt to cross into the liberated territories, but that option was not available to him, so there was no big surprise there.
To state that he did not attempt to leave is factually incorrect. He was apprehended in the attempt.
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bb, trolling or underinformed?
If one of us is underinformed, it is you.
Shortly before attempting to cross the border, he made a video. It was not published until after he attempted to leave. He clearly did not expect to succeed in his attempt. That was why he chose to delay the publication of the video.
When one is bailed and prohibited from leaving the country, then it should be unsurprising that one is arrested when one attempts to leave the country. Is this surprising to you?
He had also been in contact with his contacts to attempt to cross into the liberated Russian-occupied territories, but that option was not available to him, so there was no big surprise there.
So the Russians didn't want him?
To state that he did not attempt to leave is factually incorrect. He was apprehended in the attempt.
Kindly note that my post included a discussion of how a "determined emigrant" might leave.
He might then move about the Schengen Area until he could request asylum or find a way to leave the Schengen Zone and :censored: off back to Chile (probably his best option).
In any case, Lira is the author of his own problems. When one lives in another country, one must abide by the laws of that country - I assume this is your policy in Estonia - but Lira opted not to. His detention should have come as no surprise. Similarly, as a foreigner who (as I understand it) was not particularly conversant in Ukrainian language, it is also unsurprising that he had difficulties in prison - he was a middle-aged man, out of shape and in bad health. A nearly perfect victim in other words.
Let us not further pretend, whilst we (well, not me) are crying crocodile tears over Lira that he would not have faced a similar fate in Russia, had he lived there and taken up the Ukrainian cause.
B/B
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https://rumble.com/v46r2kw-sarah-a.-cirillo-gonzalo-lira-died-of-natural-causes...-he-smoked-too-much.html
While I do not know who s. A. Cirillo is, nor do I care that much. The video affirms much of what B.B. and I have noted. He was in the mess that killed him due to his own greed and ego.
My guess there is something missing.
Missing is common sense, put plenty of ignorance and hubris.
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Here's Putin responding to the US saying, that if Russia wins in Ukraine, they'll go on to attack NATO countries. He said that Russian have never needed anything from NATO, they don't need anything from them now and they wont need anything from them in the future. Putin feels that this has always been about encouraging European countries to pay money into NATO.
Straight from the horses mouth....
https://www.tiktok.com/@wiseputin/video/7325064196981345578?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7312100454534891041
He then talks about the United States accomplishing its current objectives by ripping off what they believe to be Ukraine and severing Russia's relations with Europe. Putin then says that unfortunately Russia couldn't have behaved differently otherwise they would have had to give up everything and watch the US slurp it all up for themselves.
To be fair, even the most anti Russian folks should question why Nikki Haley and other war hawks are allowed to voice such baseless accusations.
"Russia will not limit itself to attacking Ukraine. Poland and the Baltic states are next. Those are NATO countries, that puts America at war," Nikki Haley, former US ambassador to the UN and now US Presidential Candidate for the Republican Party said.
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When one is bailed and prohibited from leaving the country, then it should be unsurprising that one is arrested when one attempts to leave the country. Is this surprising to you?
So one minute he should leave and the next minute he shouldn't. What one is it, pick a side?
It's noticeable that those decidedly in bed with Ukraine, have decided that this 55 year old bloke who cycled the length of the country was in such bad health, he just keeled over and died sitting in his cell from natural causes. No questions asked, done deal. Now let's pretend it was Zelensky on a bike and he was caught by the Russians.....still feel the same? Nah didn't think so.
In short it basically reeks of, he was outspoken against Biden, Zelensky and was a bit out of shape so shit happens. Move on and nothing to see here.....gotcha :thumbsup:
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To be fair, even the most anti Russian folks should question why Nikki Haley and other war hawks are allowed to voice such baseless accusations.
Guess you do not understand free speech.
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When one is bailed and prohibited from leaving the country, then it should be unsurprising that one is arrested when one attempts to leave the country. Is this surprising to you?
So one minute he should leave and the next minute he shouldn't. What one is it, pick a side?
It's noticeable that those decidedly in bed with Ukraine, have decided that this 55 year old bloke who cycled the length of the country was in such bad health, he just keeled over and died sitting in his cell from natural causes. No questions asked, done deal. Now let's pretend it was Zelensky on a bike and he was caught by the Russians.....still feel the same? Nah didn't think so.
In short it basically reeks of, he was outspoken against Biden, Zelensky and was a bit out of shape so shit happens. Move on and nothing to see here.....gotcha :thumbsup:
Guess Lira won the Darwin rewards.
As noted elsewhere he was NOT a journalist. But since you are willing to play hypothetical games why not travel to Russia and post parallel critiques* regarding V. Putin? Please share how it goes.
* I can not find any ‘journalistic’ posts of Lira.
NB; Can all the Lira related posts including the initial post of Bodine be split off into a new thread?
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To be fair, even the most anti Russian folks should question why Nikki Haley and other war hawks are allowed to voice such baseless accusations.
Guess you do not understand free speech.
One would hope that someone running for President wouldn't be so poorly educated and reckless as Niki Haley.
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In the case about Coach Red Pill, yeah I grant, "stupid is as stupid does".
In the end, regardless of the true cause of his demise - methinks his own 'ego' did him in. While I have no 'proof' of it, I'm convinced his youtube & blogging days gave him a huge sense of significance having so many followers and readers which likely fed him with a false sense of 'invincibility'.
Sometimes that's an acquired trait for many 'Americans' living/travelling abroad. So he kept pushing his limits until he hit the proverbial 'wall'.
FYI. He didn't pedaled to the Hungarian border. He rode his motorbike. A year ago today, he got into an accident with that same motorcycle. I never followed him. I just occasioned to have read that event in one of the reports about him.
That's for Gonzalo Lira.
Again, this is what got him arrested:
‘production and distribution of materials containing the justification, recognition as legitimate, [or] denial of the armed aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine’.
That's about as innocuous a charge (to me) as calling Zelensky an idiot for listening to BOJO. Hardly (again to me) a reason to incarcerate anyone. Much less send soldiers to his apartment with rifles drawn during the arrest. But then, that's me posting here in sunny California. While Ukraine sings that tune to anyone willing to listen they want to be a democratic nation (cough, cough if you can actually believe them), to pp what B/B uttered in a recent post - does anyone really believe things would've been different had he been in Russia pinning for Ukrainian cause? That's reality. Based on this chapter, Ukraine is poised to be 'democratic' as Russia will ever be.
BUT - here's my 'but' in this saga: while the US consulate warns Americans to respect nations' rules and laws, (it) is obligated to assist US citizens arrested by providing assistance as stated and explained in every consular offices and websites.
https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/arrest-of-a-u-s-citizen/
https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/arrest-of-a-u-s-citizen/information-u-s-citizens-arrested-ukraine/
Lira, as far I understood, received a whopping ZILCH during his arrested state. Never even got medical assistance from the US after his release and medical diagnosis.
Gonzalo, an American citizen, became, for whatever reason his nation deemed him to be - an expendable collateral.
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To be fair, even the most anti Russian folks should question why Nikki Haley and other war hawks are allowed to voice such baseless accusations.
Guess you do not understand free speech.
Perverting the course of justice, lying and defamation are things politicians and influential people in power should be held accountable for. Trump gets hauled up repeatedly so why not the neocons?
Now unless NH can cite where Putin declared this or reference a Russian mission statement.....shouting made up stuff repeatedly doesn't make it any more true.
It's also incredibly dangerous without moderation because thicko's believe and repeat the lies and ultimately vote in a government who takes a country to war over made up BS.
Av = Tex 2.0. :'(
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As noted elsewhere he was NOT a journalist.
A journalist: a person engaged in journalism. especially : a writer or editor for a news medium. : a writer who aims at a mass audience. 2. : a person who keeps a journal.
*Gonzalo Ángel Quintilio Lira López was a Chilean-American novelist, film director, commentator, YouTuber and life coach blogger. He was involved in the manosphere under the moniker of Coach Red Pill, posting anti-feminist content.
Lira in the modern sense, was a journalist, whether you like it or not. Every days a school day AV.
But since you are willing to play hypothetical games why not travel to Russia and post parallel critiques* regarding V. Putin? Please share how it goes.
But but Ukraine is a democracy, a paragon of virtue and a shiny new EU member in waiting.......
I have never in my life said that Russia was a fair liberal democracy but I've listened to plenty idiots claim Ukraine is.
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Straight from the horses mouth....
It is certainly from one end of the horse...
Putin then says that unfortunately Russia couldn't have behaved differently otherwise they would have had to give up everything and watch the US slurp it all up for themselves.
Poor little Russia! Always the victim! Always the VICTIM!
This Just In: Ukraine gets to decide that for themselves, and, although latecomers, have figured out that their future lies to the West, with the EU and NATO. If they stand pat, they get invaded and run over by Russia. That's why the Baltics and basically all the Warsaw Pact members broke the Land Speed Record for joining NATO, because it's good to have a friend when the Bear is at the door.
Russia was under no "obligation" to invade Ukraine, nor were they magically "entitled" to. This is Russia's territorial ambitions and arrogant nationalism. They want Ukraine back, Kazakhstan - Putin once said of Kazakhstan "That's not really a country" - and the Baltics (which, luckily for them, are in NATO).
Some introspection might do Russia some good, as to why they don't seem to be so popular in their neighborhood. Hint: It's the GENOCIDE, Stupid.
B/B
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Lira in the modern sense, was a journalist, whether you like it or not. Every days a school day AV.
Lira was a journalist in the same way I am a money manager by virtue of managing my own IRA account.
B/B
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As noted elsewhere he was NOT a journalist.
A journalist: a person engaged in journalism. especially : a writer or editor for a news medium. : a writer who aims at a mass audience. 2. : a person who keeps a journal.
*Gonzalo Ángel Quintilio Lira López was a Chilean-American novelist, film director, commentator, YouTuber and life coach blogger. He was involved in the manosphere under the moniker of Coach Red Pill, posting anti-feminist content.
Lira in the modern sense, was a journalist, whether you like it or not. Every days a school day AV.
But since you are willing to play hypothetical games why not travel to Russia and post parallel critiques* regarding V. Putin? Please share how it goes.
Based on your opinion above it seems you think "The Emperor's New Clothes” and A Modest Proposal describe real events.
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To be fair, even the most anti Russian folks should question why Nikki Haley and other war hawks are allowed to voice such baseless accusations.
Guess you do not understand free speech.
Perverting the course of justice, lying and defamation are things politicians and influential people in power should be held accountable for. Trump gets hauled up repeatedly so why not the neocons?
Now unless NH can cite where Putin declared this or reference a Russian mission statement.....shouting made up stuff repeatedly doesn't make it any more true.
It's also incredibly dangerous without moderation because thicko's believe and repeat the lies and ultimately vote in a government who takes a country to war over made up BS.
Av = Tex 2.0. :'(
Rosco, you might enjoy this article about Nikki Haley.
https://www.unz.com/article/the-sulphurous-attraction-of-nikki-haley-leads-back-to-big-brother-and-the-globalists/
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Because some posters are rather dim witted let me make it clear I have a strong aversion to Nikki Haley. The only thing that she has are two ugly left feet in clown shoes. My guess is the only diplomacy she concluded ‘successfully’ was when she begged horizontally.
What would be truly awesome a nightmare is if her running mate was John Bolton.
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Nikki Haley have zero credibility. She didn't know the cause the US civil war when asked during an interview.
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In the case about Coach Red Pill...
I'm surprised they haven't taken down his 'X' account (https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968). Likely an Elon effect.
A lot of interesting posts including the moment just before he tried to cross the border.
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Nikki Haley have zero credibility. She didn't know the cause the US civil war when asked during an interview.
I rather like the way she has renamed herself. I am sure that is a calculated choice. Of course, her married name is Haley, but taking the name Nikki rather than Nimarata rather smacks of manipulation. Even if the Nikki appellation is a name used by her friends or family since childhood, given that I am neither friend nor family, it means that her name is not Nikki; it is Mrs Haley or Nimarata.
BTW I checked; it is her middle name and has been used by friends and family since she was a kid. I am still not a family member or friend; thus, the point stands. :8)
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A Russian military transport plane has crashed in the Belgorod region killing 74 on board. Russia have said that the plane was carrying 65 Ukrainian POW's and have described the incident as a terrorist attack. Sergei Lavrov then went on to say;
"Right away, after the aircraft was downed... the Ukrainian side mentioned yet again the victory of their armed forces, but when it became known that it was a PoW swap plane... the Ukrainian propagandists tried to sweep it under the carpet."
He appears to be referring to some initial reports in Ukrainian outlets that said a Russian plane carrying missiles was shot down, but were tweaked later to remove any direct suggestion the attack was carried out by Ukrainian forces.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-military-plane-crashes-in-russia-scores-on-board-reports-say-12541713
Sergey Lavrov took to the podium at the United Nations today and he says he wanted to begin the news conference with a Q&A session, but that events in Russia mean he must open with a statement instead.
He describes today's plane crash as a "terrorist attack". He outlines claims already made by the Russian defence ministry - namely that 74 people, including 65 Ukrainian prisoners of war, were killed in the crash in Belgorod because of Ukrainian actiona. "The Ukrainian side launched an air defence missile from the Kharkov region... it was a fatal strike," he says.
He says he has asked the UN Security Council to convene and discuss the matter later today. He says he hopes that France, which chairs the council, will call for the emergency session, referring to previous British failure to call for one after what he describes as the "staging of [Russian war crimes in] Bucha".
So far Ukraine has deleted all social media activity linking them to the attack and Western journalists instantly kicked into overdrive and immediately tried their best to remove the blame from Ukraine and dismiss the claims......without any shred of evidence to prove otherwise. We'll all find out what's happened in time but I find it extraordinary that the West automatically makes excuses and calls Russian BS within seconds of the event happening.
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Australian Open: Ukrainian tennis player Yelyzaveta Kotliar has been forced to apologise and will be investigated for shaking hands with Russian opponent Vlada Micheva.
The Ukrainian Tennis Federation called the handshake between the juniors an "unpleasant incident" - while Dayana Yastremska, a player on the senior tour from Ukraine, blamed the moment on youth and inexperience.
https://news.sky.com/story/australian-open-ukrainian-tennis-player-yelyzaveta-kotliar-investigated-for-shaking-hands-with-russian-opponent-vlada-micheva-13055247
Imagine hounding a 16 year old girl representing her country for doing the sporting thing and shaking the hand of her Russian opponent after a tennis match? Neither of them are involved in the conflict and they're both professionals competing against each other in competitive sport, where respect should be ever present. Very petty and it's this sort of stuff that turns me off the Ukrainians with their attitudes.
Demanding Russian players be banned from sports by global bodies or begging/threatening countries for more free money which is often "taxed by the pigs" is one thing but hounding a child because she shook an opponent's hand at the Australian Open after a competitive game is pathetic.
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I just thought I would make a note here. The big winner in war in Ukraine is North Korea. The selling weapons to Russia has been a big boost to their economy. Who would ever thought that would happen? One of the fastest growing economies in the world.
Who has been the biggest supplier of weapons and other war items....to UKRAINE, since well before the orange revolusion?
Ask... Mrs Nulan........and your ex ambassador Payatt!
BTW who threaten, today,!!! to invade Russia and start WW3?
(for your info the Head of the BRITISH Army......suggested the invasion of Russsia)
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I just thought I would make a note here. The big winner in war in Ukraine is North Korea. The selling weapons to Russia has been a big boost to their economy. Who would ever thought that would happen? One of the fastest growing economies in the world.
Who has been the biggest supplier of weapons and other war items....to UKRAINE, since well before the orange revolusion?
Russia. Still to this day most of Ukraine weapons are Russian made.
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Who has been the biggest supplier of weapons and other war items....to UKRAINE, before the Orange revolusion, Russia. Still to this day most of Ukraine weapons are Russian made.
It is pretty obvious and part of your job that, in your opinion, all or most of the members here are brainless and easy to manipulate with the crap, for the past few years you are posting, here.
May I remind you that USA before 1939 was a very large (empty)and still is, nothing more than a false criminal nation created by immigrants from all over the world and controlled generally by the Italian Mafia.
During WWII, Churchill, the Leader of the Real British Empire, realised that GB could not fight the Germans on its own and for safety convinced the ill president of USA to join the war and provide supplies, and support. So all the spare USA young men were send to UK for preparation and then later joined the attack to the Germans.
At the same time USA under the Lend Lease program supplied the British and also the other side (East of Germany) (ignoring the political system,) the Russian Empire with the necessary equipment supplies who finally invaded Berlin and thus Germany was destroyed.
When Germany capitulated, it was ordered and signed the agreement that Germany is under occupation by USA until 2097 not allowed to have any normal army. What is the purpose of the 40 USA bases in Germany?
May i also remind you of the Korea war and then another 18 invasion of countries.....Vietnam and contnue evn today....now
As about arm supplies to Ukraine.....how many billions of unused arms you have off loaded to Ukraine......???
Find other idiots to spread your propaganda crap .
Ο πρώην επικεφαλής της Δυτικογερμανικής Στρατιωτικής Υπηρεσίας Πληροφοριών
εξέδωσε ένα βιβλίο που αποκαλύπτει μυστικές λεπτομέρειες μιας
Αμερικανο-Γερμανικής συνθήκης του 1949, υποστηρίζοντας ότι η Αμερική και οι σύμμαχοί της καταστέλλουν σκόπιμα την κυριαρχία των εθνών,
Ο πρώην επικεφαλής του MAD αποκαλύπτει συγκλονιστικές λεπτομέρειες της μυστικής συνθήκης ΗΠΑ-Γερμανίας του 1949.
Οι ανώτατοι αξιωματικοί των μυστικών υπηρεσιών σπάνια αποκαλύπτουν μυστικά νήματα, τραβώντας τον πολιτικό μηχανισμό του έθνους. Έκδοση ενός βιβλίου όπως η Γερμανική κάρτα. Το σκοτεινό παιχνίδι των μυστικών υπηρεσιών, με συγγραφέα τον Gerd-Helmut Komossa (Gerd-Helmut Komossa. DIE DEUTSCHE KARTE. Das verdeckte Spiel der geheimen Dienste. Ares-Verlag, Graz 2007. – 230 S.), είναι ένα εξαιρετικό φαινόμενο.
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9783902475343-uk.jpg)
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Who has been the biggest supplier of weapons and other war items....to UKRAINE, before the Orange revolusion, Russia. Still to this day most of Ukraine weapons are Russian made.
It is pretty obvious and part of your job that, in your opinion, all or most of the members here are brainless and easy to manipulate with the crap, for the past few years you are posting, here.
May I remind you that USA before 1939 was a very large (empty)and still is, nothing more than a false criminal nation created by immigrants from all over the world and controlled generally by the Italian Mafia.
During WWII, Churchill, the Leader of the Real British Empire, realised that GB could not fight the Germans on its own and for safety convinced the ill president of USA to join the war and provide supplies, and support. So all the spare USA young men were send to UK for preparation and then later joined the attack to the Germans.
At the same time USA under the Lend Lease program supplied the British and also the other side (East of Germany) (ignoring the political system,) the Russian Empire with the necessary equipment supplies who finally invaded Berlin and thus Germany was destroyed.
When Germany capitulated, it was ordered and signed the agreement that Germany is under occupation by USA until 2097 not allowed to have any normal army. What is the purpose of the 40 USA bases in Germany?
May i also remind you of the Korea war and then another 18 invasion of countries.....Vietnam and contnue evn today....now
As about arm supplies to Ukraine.....how many billions of unused arms you have off loaded to Ukraine......???
Find other idiots to spread your propaganda crap .
The former head of the West German Military Intelligence Service
published a book revealing secret details of a
US-German Treaty of 1949, arguing that America and its allies are deliberately suppressing the sovereignty of nations,
Former MAD chief reveals shocking details of secret 1949 US-German treaty.
Top intelligence officers rarely reveal secret threads, tugging at the nation's political machinery. Edition of a book like the German card. The dark game of the secret services, authored by Gerd-Helmut Komossa (Gerd-Helmut Komossa. DIE DEUTSCHE KARTE. Das verdeckte Spiel der geheimen Dienste. Ares-Verlag, Graz 2007. – 230 S.), is an extraordinary phenomenon.
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9783902475343-uk.jpg)
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Russia abandoned more weapons in Ukraine than all of Nato countries has supplied. Wiz you just do not like the real facts. Very few lethal USA weapons were in Ukraine until February 2022. They had so many weapons left over that Russia abandoned in 1992 they are still shooting them at Russia today. You are just in some kind of dream world. It is true the Nato has offed Ukraine some technology improvements from USSR weapons but in sheer number most have come from Russia.
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Russia abandoned more weapons in Ukraine than all of Nato countries has supplied. Wiz you just do not like the real facts. Very few lethal USA weapons were in Ukraine until February 2022. They had so many weapons left over that Russia abandoned in 1992 they are still shooting them at Russia today. You are just in some kind of dream world. It is true the Nato has offed Ukraine some technology improvements from USSR weapons but in sheer number most have come from Russia.
Obviously you think everybody here is stupid when you post your crap propaganda.
It is well known fact that USA organised the Orange revolution, and Nulan stated that USA (13 Dec 2013 · Remarks at the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation Conference.) Remarks. Victoria Nuland )... We've invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these .
https://2009-2017.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2013/dec/218804.htm (https://2009-2017.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2013/dec/218804.htm)
It is well known fact that Ukraine was part of the USSR till 1991 but when became indpendent Russia created its on factories..... etc.
After the Orange revolution USA has invested big sums for 40 + Medical research centers (Biden Family was part of it) and since the war started.......
The Joe Biden administration and the U.S. Congress have directed more than $75 billion in assistance to Ukraine, which includes humanitarian, financial, and military support, according to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German research institute.
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts (https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
The US has allocated $113.4 billion in emergency funding to support Ukraine, American partners in regions affected by the conflict, and US national security programs
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-money-has-the-us-given-ukraine-since-russias-invasion/
I expect they pay you well for all the crap you are posting!
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jUST A LITTLE MORE TO READ FOR YOU!
U.S. Security Cooperation with Ukraine
eNJOY READING THW LONG LIST WHICH EXLUDES ANY SUPPORT FROM OTHER
NATO countries including my birth place Greece .
Fact Sheet
https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20Congress%20has%20appropriated,has%20been%20notified%20to%20Congress. (https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20Congress%20has%20appropriated,has%20been%20notified%20to%20Congress.)
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What does this have to do with North Korea? Write about North Korea or find another subject to debate in. North Korea is doing well because of Russian money buying North Korean weapons. If you want to write about that then it goes here. Otherwise, it should be someplace else.
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Russia abandoned more weapons in Ukraine than all of Nato countries has supplied. Wiz you just do not like the real facts. Very few lethal USA weapons were in Ukraine until February 2022. They had so many weapons left over that Russia abandoned in 1992 they are still shooting them at Russia today. You are just in some kind of dream world. It is true the Nato has offed Ukraine some technology improvements from USSR weapons but in sheer number most have come from Russia.
What does this have to do with North Korea? Write about North Korea or find another subject to debate in. North Korea is doing well because of Russian money buying North Korean weapons. If you want to write about that then it goes here. Otherwise, it should be someplace else.
Are you arguing with yourself again Tex?
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Russia abandoned more weapons in Ukraine than all of Nato countries has supplied. Wiz you just do not like the real facts. Very few lethal USA weapons were in Ukraine until February 2022. They had so many weapons left over that Russia abandoned in 1992 they are still shooting them at Russia today. You are just in some kind of dream world. It is true the Nato has offed Ukraine some technology improvements from USSR weapons but in sheer number most have come from Russia.
I know you're not very good at processing information so I've supplied you with a few links for educational purposes. Of curse there's going to be some legacy armament kicking about but over time the product will deteriorate, parts will become short in supply and used through. Thankfully for Ukraine, the US spent billions arming the government and militias including the nazi Azov battalion following the regime change in 2014.
"Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis"
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
"The United States has been aiding and training Ukrainian forces in their fight against Russian-backed separatists since 2014, and recently expanded that aid to include arms. The omnibus includes about $620.7 million in aid for Ukraine, including $420.7 million in State Department and foreign operations funds and $200 million in Pentagon funds."
GT investigates: Evidence suggests US may have supported neo-Nazi Azov Battalion
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254217.shtml
Lethal Weapons to Ukraine: A Primer - By Peter J. Marzalik and Aric Toler
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/lethal-weapons-to-ukraine-a-primer/
U.S. officials say lethal weapons headed to Ukraine
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-officials-say-lethal-weapons-headed-ukraine-n832311
This is but a mere drop in the ocean and with some help from your guardian, I'm sure you'll find other links to digest with a quick google search. Good luck :thumbsup:
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Rosco Sorry for my posts but I get fed up reading crap from this troll.[/b]
Not at all. When someone posts BS it's better they're called out publicly. He'll either learn or continue to look stupid......or troll.
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Rossco and Wiz = dumb and dumber.
In Greece they say....to people like you:
<< The Male donkey with the large empty head....
called the rooster .... KEFALA (Big empty head) >> :dh:
PS: Anybody knows what happened to a member from Odessa working as a translator, who joined the Banderas to fight the Russians?
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Rossco and Wiz = dumb and dumber.
In Greece they say....to people like you:
<< The Male donkey with the large empty head....
called the rooster .... KEFALA (Big empty head) >> :dh:
PS: Anybody knows what happened to a member from Odessa working as a translator, who joined the Banderas to fight the Russians?
Wiz, I assume you are speaking of Stirlitz. He is fine, was pensioned out of the army and now leads a battalion of volunteers the possible defense of Odesa. I help him with Dutch. I recall a long time ago he expressed distaste of S. Bandera.
But pray tell us what is a Banderas?
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I hope this article irritates Tex. :laugh:
https://www.rt.com/russia/591507-ukraine-german-leopard-tanks-destroyed/
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No doubt this is also Russian "propaganda". Or maybe not? Who knows.
Quote
In August, Russia’s Defense Ministry even organized an exhibition of captured Western weaponry near Moscow, displaying everything from American M-113 armored personnel carriers and Swedish CV90-40s to French wheeled AMX-10RCR tanks and Australian Bushmaster armored vehicles.
In total, the exhibition featured over 870 types of armaments seized by Russian forces, including examples of Soviet and Ukrainian-made equipment.
In July, President Putin also stated that captured Western weaponry would be “reverse-engineered” to adopt any technology that might turn out to be useful for Russian forces.
https://www.rt.com/russia/589345-putin-western-equipment-myth/
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Rosco Sorry for my posts but I get fed up reading crap from this troll.[/b]
Not at all. When someone posts BS it's better they're called out publicly. He'll either learn or continue to look stupid......or troll.
Rossco Ukraine is receiving no ammunition and repair parts for it USA weapons for months now. Most of the equipment had to be sideline. But Still Russia is not doing all that well. Maybe that is because most of the equipment Ukraine is using is Russian made and much of it came from Russia as war trophies.
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A Russian military transport plane has crashed in the Belgorod region killing 74 on board. Russia have said that the plane was carrying 65 Ukrainian POW's and have described the incident as a terrorist attack. Sergei Lavrov then went on to say;
"Right away, after the aircraft was downed... the Ukrainian side mentioned yet again the victory of their armed forces, but when it became known that it was a PoW swap plane... the Ukrainian propagandists tried to sweep it under the carpet."
He appears to be referring to some initial reports in Ukrainian outlets that said a Russian plane carrying missiles was shot down, but were tweaked later to remove any direct suggestion the attack was carried out by Ukrainian forces.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-military-plane-crashes-in-russia-scores-on-board-reports-say-12541713
Sergey Lavrov took to the podium at the United Nations today and he says he wanted to begin the news conference with a Q&A session, but that events in Russia mean he must open with a statement instead.
He describes today's plane crash as a "terrorist attack". He outlines claims already made by the Russian defence ministry - namely that 74 people, including 65 Ukrainian prisoners of war, were killed in the crash in Belgorod because of Ukrainian actiona. "The Ukrainian side launched an air defence missile from the Kharkov region... it was a fatal strike," he says.
He says he has asked the UN Security Council to convene and discuss the matter later today. He says he hopes that France, which chairs the council, will call for the emergency session, referring to previous British failure to call for one after what he describes as the "staging of [Russian war crimes in] Bucha".
So far Ukraine has deleted all social media activity linking them to the attack and Western journalists instantly kicked into overdrive and immediately tried their best to remove the blame from Ukraine and dismiss the claims......without any shred of evidence to prove otherwise. We'll all find out what's happened in time but I find it extraordinary that the West automatically makes excuses and calls Russian BS within seconds of the event happening.
Ukraine was not informed of any prisoner exchanged was in progress at the time. Russia never informed Ukraine their prisoners were on the plane. The plane was flown into space where the Russia knew Ukraine air defenses were operating now Russia will not let international team investigate the crash. Russia did not return the bodies of Ukrainian prisoners. Ukraine is question if this plane was even shot down by them or if there were any prisoners on the plane. If there were prisoners on the plane it is another war crime Russia committed. If not, it is just more fake propaganda.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-inaction-indicates-kremlin-s-falsehood-about-il-76-case-center-for-strategic-communication/ar-BB1hy2ew?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1070817b94484d24a8d9d54f47273f5d&ei=11
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Rossco Ukraine is receiving no ammunition and repair parts for it USA weapons for months now. Most of the equipment had to be sideline. But Still Russia is not doing all that well. Maybe that is because most of the equipment Ukraine is using is Russian made and much of it came from Russia as war trophies.
Stop lying and snap out of this alternative universe you appear to live in.
Ukraine received more than $90 billion ($90000000000) in combined military aid over the last 18 months and the latest top up from the US arrived in the last month, to the tune of $250 million for air defence, artillery, anti tank and small arms.
Stop being silly, do the maths and understand that Ukraines defence against Russia, is absolutely not being managed by scavenged or left over Russian armoury. They've received an obscene amount of western kit on top of their existing military inventory pre 2022.
This makes you sound dumb so please top lying in every single post you make and accept that Russia have seen off the super charged summer offensive, destroyed everything that came their way and are now on the offensive themselves.
From December 29th 2023;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62002218
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Ukraine was not informed of any prisoner exchanged was in progress at the time. Russia never informed Ukraine their prisoners were on the plane. The plane was flown into space where the Russia knew Ukraine air defenses were operating now Russia will not let international team investigate the crash. Russia did not return the bodies of Ukrainian prisoners. Ukraine is question if this plane was even shot down by them or if there were any prisoners on the plane. If there were prisoners on the plane it is another war crime Russia committed. If not, it is just more fake propaganda.
Ukraine were aware of a prisoner swap that day and they admitted that they had at least 15 mins pre warning.
Ukraine shot down 1 of 2 Russian transport aircraft inside Russia that day and celebrated it on the socials.
Russia reported the incident and Ukraine deleted their social media claims.
Ukrainian and western media outlets immediately tried to discredit everything and anything to do with the accident and they were undecided whether to blame Russia or accuse Russia of lying. Some did both.
The accident involving the Russian plane happened inside Russia and is being investigated by Russian authorities who are now suggesting US weapons were used to bring down the aircraft. It has zero to do with handing anything over to Ukraine and lets face it, Ukraine couldn't be trusted to mutter an ounce of truth.
Now people like you are blaming Russia for Ukraine shooting down a transport plane carrying Ukrainian POW's because it's what people like you need to do. You cant accept anything negative in anything otherwise the cracks begin to show and the truth comes out.
Do you shout propaganda from your rocking chair whilst mouth breathing?
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Rossco and Wiz = dumb and dumber.
In Greece they say....to people like you:
<< The Male donkey with the large empty head....
called the rooster .... KEFALA (Big empty head) >> :dh:
PS: Anybody knows what happened to a member from Odessa working as a translator, who joined the Banderas to fight the Russians?
Wiz, I assume you are speaking of Stirlitz. He is fine, was pensioned out of the army and now leads a battalion of volunteers the possible defense of Odesa. I help him with Dutch. I recall a long time ago he expressed distaste of S. Bandera.
But pray tell us what is a Banderas?
Thank for your information.... but sorry will not use my free time and my right arm pain to expalain to you about the banterites etc.
Enjoy sailing and continue reading all the lies and crap posted by Teaxan. tiphat
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All the info come from Putin who claims he want an international investigation, but Ukraine claims he is impeding it. Why do we not here from the team of international investigators? All we get from Russia is what Putin says. Ukraine says no prisoner swap that day. No warning to not shoot down this plane. Where are the international investigators to clarified it?
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All the info come from Putin who claims he want an international investigation, but Ukraine claims he is impeding it. Why do we not here from the team of international investigators? All we get from Russia is what Putin says. Ukraine says no prisoner swap that day. No warning to not shoot down this plane. Where are the international investigators to clarified it?
More fantasy and BS from Texan77. Putin is not Russia.....get that through your thick skull.
Russia lost a Russian transport plane over Russia, having been shot down by western weaponry from Ukrainian soil and its being investigated by Russian authorities....yet your brimming your adult diper because they're not letting Ukraine or its western proxy war sponsors, investigate the site and write their own conclusions for us all to believe?
Meanwhile, you've decided that Russia is bad in every way and Ukraine (and its proxy war sponsors) is pure, perfect and wonderful so lets automatically make up information and draw conclusions.
And sort your written English out. Reading your BS is bad enough but your lies and inaccuracies are more painful when I have to read your attempted communication.
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Victoria Nuland (husband Robert Kagen from ISW) traveled to Kiev today, Jan 31st 2024 and Zelensky is apparently about to sack Zaluzhnyi who's been the commander in chief of the armed forces of Ukraine since 2021.
https://Kievindependent.com/us-under-secretary-victoria-nuland-arrives-in-Kiev/
It appears very much like the US are going to hire and fire the personnel they choose, much like after the 2014 coup and a different approach is required. Time will tell us what that exactly looks like.
Zaluzhnyi has the backing of the armed forces and has apparently refused to resign and has said he will only leave if he's sacked. The Americans need Zaluzhnyi removed so Budanov (head of SBU and responsible for a number of killings and underhand goings on) can go in and act as a US/NATO puppet.
Sticky Vicky's back at it and doing her worst so lets watch how it all unfolds.
https://www.tiktok.com/@therealtruth1962/video/7330249917933358369?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7327982956104910368
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Russia continue to gain ground as the western press and Ukraine remain silent and pretend everything is going ok. Here's a map from today and it looks like Russia are making progress towards Kharkov.
https://www.tiktok.com/@warrenthornton62/video/7329874275827993888?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7327982956104910368
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Victoria Nuland (husband Robert Kagen from ISW) traveled to Kiev today, Jan 31st 2024 and Zelensky is apparently about to sack Zaluzhnyi who's been the commander in chief of the armed forces of Ukraine since 2021.
https://Kievindependent.com/us-under-secretary-victoria-nuland-arrives-in-Kiev/
It appears very much like the US are going to hire and fire the personnel they choose, much like after the 2014 coup and a different approach is required. Time will tell us what that exactly looks like.
Zaluzhnyi has the backing of the armed forces and has apparently refused to resign and has said he will only leave if he's sacked. The Americans need Zaluzhnyi removed so Budanov (head of SBU and responsible for a number of killings and underhand goings on) can go in and act as a US/NATO puppet.
Sticky Vicky's back at it and doing her worst so lets watch how it all unfolds.
https://www.tiktok.com/@therealtruth1962/video/7330249917933358369?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7327982956104910368
Gee where do you get this stuff. Ukraine is not getting any ammunitions from the USA and very little from Nato for the last several months. Russia is gaining ground but, on some days, they actually lose it. I cannot see your link to know where they are talking about, but it is very little ground considering they are no longer being supplied. If Ukraine was doing the bidding for the west, why are we not supplying them? They have a bunch of western weapons and no ammunition for them. Vicky cannot do anything congress has not approved funding for Ukraine. It appears funding for Ukraine has been post posed until after Russian elections so Putin will look good and be able to stay in office. I believe the USA wants Putin in office rather than a replacement which they fear would be worse.
A transition is taking place where Ukraine is going to be expected to make its own weapons and do with much less western support going forward. Somehow this is all missing from your Russian propaganda.
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Zaluzhnyi has the backing of the armed forces and has apparently refused to resign and has said he will only leave if he's sacked. The Americans need Zaluzhnyi removed so Budanov (head of SBU and responsible for a number of killings and underhand goings on) can go in and act as a US/NATO puppet.
It appears Zaluzhnyi is going to stay. Victoria Nuland goes over there and then Zaluzhnyi stays at his position. What was it the Americans were suppose to need? Just your imagination again. Actually, I do not think she had anything to do with that. She was most likely talking about policy changes going forward between the USA and Ukraine. The war is undergoing a big change where Ukraine will make more of their own weapons and get supplies fewer western weapons. This change makes it where they can fight the war for many years without western politics being so involved.
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Zelenskyy calls for martial law and mobilisation to be extended. Martial law and general mobilisation in Ukraine could be extended for another 90 days after Volodymyr Zelenskyy submitted a proposal to lawmakers, The Kiev Independent reports.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-tucker-carlson-sky-news-live-news-12541713
Given that we're told in the West, that this "war" is a direct threat to the existence of Ukraine and NATO countries have emptied both their armouries and bank accounts in order to prop up the Ukraine fight, why hadn't Ukraine officially declared a full scale and legitimate war against Russia? All very odd to say the least and at a time where Zelensky is looking to force another 500,000 poor sods through the meat grinder.
Here's one interesting take on the situation;
https://en.detector.media/post/should-ukraine-have-officially-declared-war-on-russia#:~:text=The%20author%20of%20the%20article,switch%20to%20the%20army%20needs.
The author of the article, Oleg Adamovich, concluded that Ukraine does not declare war against Russia because it is afraid to do so due to not wanting to lose income from gas transit. He also argued that 'an official declaration of war will force all Ukrainian production to switch to the army needs.
Some would argue that if this is about the existence of Ukraine and that they're fighting on our behalf, before Russia invades the rest of the West, why shouldn't Ukraine switch to a war footing and take it more seriously? Instead this appears to be about money. Sky News has been reporting that Ukraine might raise their taxes and their debt to part fund its planned expenditure and rightly so, given how the average Joe in the West has been inconvenienced. And this at a time where US/EU funding is at sky high levels and the figures below are staggering.
US Senate proposes $60bn for Ukraine in latest bid to break deadlock.
EU agrees further $54 billion in aid to Ukraine
Explained: Ukraine relies heavily on two sources of financial and military assistance - the EU and the US.
As of December, the EU and its countries had committed $143bn in support (which excludes its latest $54bn deal), followed by the US with $76bn, according to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy. The rest of the world donated a little under $40bn. Most of the aid given by the US is in military support, while the EU has offered the majority of its assistance in financial support.
So as of today, we've committed $313 billion in aid to Ukraine with potentially another $60 billion from the US giving us a total of around $373 billion in aid. Meanwhile we're told that crappy old Russia cant beat little Ukraine, Russia is a disaster and Ukraine doesn't need to declare war!!
What an absolute f*ck up and one that directly hits every single one of us in the pocket whilst being assured that this isn't a proxy war...... :drunk: If Zelensky and Putin had signed that agreement in Turkey, just think of all the people that wouldn't be dead, disabled or displaced. The towns and cities not wrecked. The hundreds of billions not spunked. And the environment would have been so much cleaner, at a time our governments are taxing the hell out of us in the name of climate change.
It's a shocker and most people dont know the half of it.....
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Georgia accuses Ukraine of trying to spread war to the country after explosives 'hidden in truck' bound for Russia.
Georgia's acting prime minister has accused Ukraine of trying to spread war to his country after authorities seized what they said was a truck loaded with explosives bound for Russia. A clandestine shipment of explosives headed for Voronezh was hidden in a cargo of car batteries driven overland from Ukraine via Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey, claimed Georgia's State Security Service.
In October 2022, Moscow claimed Ukraine had carried out an explosion on the Crimean bridge using explosives hidden in a truck.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-tucker-carlson-sky-news-live-news-12541713
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Gee where do you get this stuff. Ukraine is not getting any ammunitions from the USA and very little from Nato for the last several months.
I get it from official western sources and you're still an idiot.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9477/
The US last delivered weapons and ammunition after the package announcement on December 27th 2023. The UK is providing both lethal and non-lethal weaponry, including tanks, air defence systems and long-range precision strike missiles and the last package was delivered 12th January 2024. Then we have all the other donors with their drop shipping.
You still think Ukraine are fighting and beating Russia with heroic folk songs and stolen or left behind Russian equipment? :drunk:
A transition is taking place where Ukraine is going to be expected to make its own weapons and do with much less western support going forward.
That may well be true for another sunny day further down the road but do you not think the Russians would just flatten any weapons making factories in Ukraine, that were built? Your delusion has no boundary's.
Somehow this is all missing from your Russian propaganda.
Are you suggesting that the official Military assistance to Ukraine since the Russian invasion document, found in the House of Commons library is Russian propaganda?
You're a complete waste of skin, geopolitically ignorant, low IQ on current affairs and a sink hole of useful time with your made up nonsense.
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Gee where do you get this stuff. Ukraine is not getting any ammunitions from the USA and very little from Nato for the last several months.
I get it from official western sources and you're still an idiot.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9477/
The US last delivered weapons and ammunition after the package announcement on December 27th 2023. The UK is providing both lethal and non-lethal weaponry, including tanks, air defence systems and long-range precision strike missiles and the last package was delivered 12th January 2024. Then we have all the other donors with their drop shipping.
You still think Ukraine are fighting and beating Russia with heroic folk songs and stolen or left behind Russian equipment? :drunk:
A transition is taking place where Ukraine is going to be expected to make its own weapons and do with much less western support going forward.
That may well be true for another sunny day further down the road but do you not think the Russians would just flatten any weapons making factories in Ukraine, that were built? Your delusion has no boundary's.
Somehow this is all missing from your Russian propaganda.
Are you suggesting that the official Military assistance to Ukraine since the Russian invasion document, found in the House of Commons library is Russian propaganda?
You're a complete waste of skin, geopolitically ignorant, low IQ on current affairs and a sink hole of useful time with your made up nonsense.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Gee where do you get this stuff. Ukraine is not getting any ammunitions from the USA and very little from Nato for the last several months.
I get it from official western sources and you're still an idiot.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9477/
The US last delivered weapons and ammunition after the package announcement on December 27th 2023. The UK is providing both lethal and non-lethal weaponry, including tanks, air defence systems and long-range precision strike missiles and the last package was delivered 12th January 2024. Then we have all the other donors with their drop shipping.
You still think Ukraine are fighting and beating Russia with heroic folk songs and stolen or left behind Russian equipment? :drunk:
A transition is taking place where Ukraine is going to be expected to make its own weapons and do with much less western support going forward.
That may well be true for another sunny day further down the road but do you not think the Russians would just flatten any weapons making factories in Ukraine, that were built? Your delusion has no boundary's.
Somehow this is all missing from your Russian propaganda.
Are you suggesting that the official Military assistance to Ukraine since the Russian invasion document, found in the House of Commons library is Russian propaganda?
You're a complete waste of skin, geopolitically ignorant, low IQ on current affairs and a sink hole of useful time with your made up nonsense.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
At the current time Ukraine is defending the front line mainly with weapons they got from Russia and they have little to no ammo for their western weapons. All supplies are being held in the USA congress. Europe is not giving much at this time neither. It is all promises of future gifts. You are too dumb to know the difference between past supplies and current supplies. In War material get used up where they no longer exist and have to be replaced especially ammunition.
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At the current time Ukraine is defending the front line mainly with weapons they got from Russia and they have little to no ammo for their western weapons.
Lies. Wrong. Absolute rubbish. I've literally posted a link for you and detailed the arms deliveries from the UK & US alone, never mind the other NATO countries and they received the latests instalment a few weeks ago.
Jesus man, are you demented? :'(
You are too dumb to know the difference between past supplies and current supplies.
Simply put, Ukraine can't continue to compete expending the current rate of ammunition, hence the shortage. Russia knows this and that's why they've kept up the intensity of the assaults.
This doesn't mean that Ukraine have stopped receiving supplies, they just cant keep up with Russia, using it as soon as they receive it to try and stem the Russian attacks.....this is very different from not using western kit and fighting with Russian arms.....please have someone explain this to you because I'm getting bored explaining everthing for you with crayons.
Russia's supply chain its currently far superior to that of NATO.
Ukraine (and those fighting on their behalf) are fighting Russia, using mostly western supplied kit. I told you about the $300 billion the west has supported them with and unless the Ukrainians have stolen all of it for themselves, they're certainly not fighting of the Russians with salvaged AK's.
:dh:
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Now that there are few western weapons that have ammo the nature of the war is changing as Ukraine adjust to a different way of fighting the war.
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It appears Zaluzhnyi is going to stay. Victoria Nuland goes over there and then Zaluzhnyi stays at his position.
Looks like you called it wrong again Tex. Bitch face pops over to Ukraine and guess what, Zaluzhnyi is gone, just like I said.....
Ukraine's army chief removed from post as Zelenskyy (USA) says 'it's time for renewal'
After months of speculation, Ukraine's army chief has been removed from his post, with Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying it is "time for renewal". The announcement comes after rumours of a rift between Valery Zaluzhny and the Ukrainian president started circulating months ago. Mr Zaluzhny has been seen as a national hero by many Ukrainians for overseeing the war effort since February 2022.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-tucker-carlson-sky-news-live-news-12541713
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Here's a perfect example of US politicians and the media, telling lies to their viewers. It's little wonder people like Tex see the world in this format.
https://www.tiktok.com/@polytricks_1/video/7334562765454986526?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
Nikki Haley - Listen to Putins own words, he said once he takes Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics are next.
Putin - We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. It goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war.
Should Nikki Haley be charged for abusing her position, lying and attempting to escalate a conflict? Or do we simply pray that enough Americans aren't idiots and refuse to vote for liars and Warhawks?
That's a big gamble when you read the stuff Tex comes out with.
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When we are directly lied to, what can 'normal' people do?
Most of us have neither the time or inclination to find the truth. And sadly, as exemplified by Texan, millions of others like him do not have the skills to discover or understand the truth.
Even though many millions of people have seen the interview, many billions more will not. All they will know about the presentation by Mr. Putin and Mr. Carlson is what they are told by professional liars.
One thing worth noting is that Mr. Putin did not say very much that was not already known. The interview was his best effort to reach a mass audience in the lied to West.
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Even though many millions of people have seen the interview, many billions more will not. All they will know about the presentation by Mr. Putin and Mr. Carlson is what they are told by professional liars.
That's absolutely true.
The interview itself was information rich with intelligent discourse between two high capacity individuals. I suspect the length of the interview and the language used, even with translation, was probably a little too much for the hard of thinking and the short attention span mob.
The 'establishment' knew that so they poured cold water on the interview before a word was aired and since the interview, they've thrown everything at changing the meaning of the words said.
We're now being told what Putin meant to say and they're using that as fact. MSN will post a headline on Texan's outlook and he'll repeat that here with a dyslexic rant.
Quite remarkable and sad at the same time.
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Putin - We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. It goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war.
Bear* in mind Putin is also a politician and not exactly the paradigm (model) of truth. One only has to look at his statements regarding Ukraine prior to the invasion for confirmation of this reality.
*Pun is intended.
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I’m reminded by this guy’s previous declaration.
And he’s in jail void of due process.
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Putin - We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. It goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war.
Bear* in mind Putin is also a politician and not exactly the paradigm (model) of truth. One only has to look at his statements regarding Ukraine prior to the invasion for confirmation of this reality.
*Pun is intended.
If Putin were lying to us all and he was wanting to invade NATO countries, in order to satisfy his evil and greedy world domination wet dreams, even Mr Putin himself would now be aware that Russia couldn't conquer Europe/NATO alone. It's not advisable, practical and more importantly possible and he knows that too.
Which takes us back to his quote, "We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. It goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war."
Perhaps we should all start using common sense rather than establishment fed fear, to come to some kind of sensible conclusion about Russia and their so called plans? Especially when those evil plans have only been announced by pro war western leaders and not the Kremlin.
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Which takes us back to his quote, "We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else...."
I do not believe him at all. Putin wants to return to the pre-1991 borders, including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. being under Russian domination and the same for the former buffer states.
Regardless of what he says, his actions and the history of Russia, defy his statements.
Perhaps we should all start using common sense rather than establishment fed fear, to come to some kind of sensible conclusion about Russia and their so called plans? Especially when those evil plans have only been announced by pro war western leaders and not the Kremlin.
Indeed. If only President Putin had used some common sense instead of bringing us both a "brother war" and war in Europe in the 21st Century.
B/B
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Which takes us back to his quote, "We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else...."
I do not believe him at all. Putin wants to return to the pre-1991 borders, including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. being under Russian domination and the same for the former buffer states.
Regardless of what he says, his actions and the history of Russia, defy his statements.
Perhaps we should all start using common sense rather than establishment fed fear, to come to some kind of sensible conclusion about Russia and their so called plans? Especially when those evil plans have only been announced by pro war western leaders and not the Kremlin.
Indeed. If only President Putin had used some common sense instead of bringing us both a "brother war" and war in Europe in the 21st Century.
B/B
Simply said V. Putin’s actions speak louder than any words. He can not be trusted to respect treaties or memorandums that he signed.
The only thing the world sees is in how underwhelming his military has proven to be in reality.
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Which takes us back to his quote, "We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else...."
I do not believe him at all. Putin wants to return to the pre-1991 borders, including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. being under Russian domination and the same for the former buffer states.
Regardless of what he says, his actions and the history of Russia, defy his statements.
Perhaps we should all start using common sense rather than establishment fed fear, to come to some kind of sensible conclusion about Russia and their so called plans? Especially when those evil plans have only been announced by pro war western leaders and not the Kremlin.
Indeed. If only President Putin had used some common sense instead of bringing us both a "brother war" and war in Europe in the 21st Century.
B/B
Yeah, the brothers war which has taken at least 300,000 slavic lives, on both sides each, and another two hundred thousand on each side injured for life.
War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing for the common man and woman. Warhawks and war profiteers love it though.
Which is why the UK and the USA should not have financed the war, both with cash and weapons. If the West truly cared about Ukrainian lives, they would not have given them one penny, and the USA in particular would have stayed OUT of other countries business.
US foreign policy: install our puppets like cocaine addict/comedian Zelensky, or Death and Destruction will follow.
"Democracy" at the end of some bullets, bombs and half a Million casualties, not to mention in debt to Blackrock forever. :'(
As far as your claim that Putin/Russia want to invade the Baltic's etcetera, that's what NATO is for. Ukraine has ZERO to do with US National security. Anyone who says otherwise is a bold faced liar.
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I do not believe him at all. Putin wants to return to the pre-1991 borders, including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. being under Russian domination and the same for the former buffer states.
Your opinion but it does seem odd that the Baltics joined NATO and the EU in 2004 yet here we are 20 years later and he's not invaded any of them, whilst you lot accuse him of being 'about to invade them' for 2 decades.
You don't need to believe what he says but you can judge his actions with the Baltic nations.
The Ukraine thing's been well discussed and it's clear that this was his red line when it comes to NATO enlargement, which directly affects Russian security.
Regardless of what he says, his actions and the history of Russia, defy his statements.
And that's different from the US how exactly? Oh I forget....you guys are allowed to do what the f@ck you want without consequence. Russia bad.
Indeed. If only President Putin had used some common sense instead of bringing us both a "brother war" and war in Europe in the 21st Century.
And we start another lap......yes it would have been much better for all of us, if he'd just sat on his throne and let Vicky Nuland and her neocon cronies, rig Ukraine and then move onto Russia, without objection.
Damn you Mr Putin, we could have been controlling the region if it wasn't for you and your toxic nationalism.
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Which is why the UK and the USA should not have financed the war, both with cash and weapons.
Imagine if Putin had not invaded Ukraine, and there, I dunno, WASN'T A FUKCING WAR?
If the West truly cared about Ukrainian lives, they would not have given them one penny, and the USA in particular would have stayed OUT of other countries business.
And let the slaughter have gone on unabated?
As far as your claim that Putin/Russia want to invade the Baltic's etcetera, that's what NATO is for.
Du-uh.
Read on.
Ukraine has ZERO to do with US National security. Anyone who says otherwise is a bold faced liar.
What do the Baltics have to do with US National Security? I mean other than they are locate near some other countries that we're friendly with and do not want destabilized, Like Poland and the Nordic nations?
And Ukraine is where? Bordering Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania, all NATO allies.
Supporting Ukraine in in its struggle to be free from Russian interference, domination and genocide is entirely consistent with American policy dating back nearly 80 years to George Kennan's "Long Telegram", outlining the necessity to pursue a policy of containment vis-à-vis the USSR.
Let me ask you this: Do you believe, yes or no, that the Ukrainians, as a free people, have the right to self-determination or not? You know, without being genocided, that sort of thing.
B/B
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Your opinion but it does seem odd that the Baltics joined NATO and the EU in 2004 yet here we are 20 years later and he's not invaded any of them, whilst you lot accuse him of being 'about to invade them' for 2 decades.
Uh, because they are in NATO.
Read that as many times as you need to until you understand.
I will wait.
Then ask yourself WHY literally EVERY Warsaw Pact nation without the word "Russia" in their name broke the Land-Speed Record for joining NATO. Is that because they all trust harmless little Russia so much that they joined NATO just to get some of these sweet, sweet doughnuts that Victoria Nuland gives out?
Or is it because of Russia's historic propensity for invading and genociding it's neighbors?
Again, take all the time you need work that out.
You don't need to believe what he says but you can judge his actions with the Baltic nations.
Sure: He has not invaded the Baltics, which are in NATO, but he has invaded Ukraine, which is, sadly for itself, not in NATO.
The Ukraine thing's been well discussed and it's clear that this was his red line when it comes to NATO enlargement, which directly affects ~~Russian security~~ Russia's ability to bully, invade and genocide its neighbors.
FTFY.
And that's different from the US how exactly? Oh I forget....you guys are allowed to do what the f@ck you want without consequence. Russia bad.
First, this is complete "Whataboutism."
Second, we learned from the best, my British friend. :P
And we start another lap......yes it would have been much better for all of us, if he'd just sat on his throne and let Vicky Nuland and her neocon cronies, rig Ukraine and then move onto Russia, without objection.
Headline: "VICKY NULAND INVADES RUSSIA; HANDS OUT DOUGHNUTS TO UNSUSPECTING RUSSIANS!"
Nobody was going to invade Russia, although it turns out that the Russian Army, much like Notre Dame football, was massively overrated.
Damn you Mr Putin, we could have been controlling the region if it wasn't for you and your toxic nationalism.
Riiiiight. USA helps a people in distress and being murdered by their genocidal imperialist neighbor: AMERICA BAD! AMERICA BAD!
Putin could have had 95% of what he wanted without invading anyone, but, well Russian Nationalism. It probably never occurred to him not to.
B/B
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Your opinion but it does seem odd that the Baltics joined NATO and the EU in 2004 yet here we are 20 years later and he's not invaded any of them, whilst you lot accuse him of being 'about to invade them' for 2 decades.
Uh, because they are in NATO.
Read that as many times as you need to until you understand.
I will wait.
I think you're better than that B/B.
But please tell us why NATO and the US keep scaring everyone, telling us that Russia is about to invade the Baltics. I mean let's listen to you in this very conversation.
I do not believe him at all. Putin wants to return to the pre-1991 borders, including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. being under Russian domination and the same for the former buffer states.
You think Russia will invade because Putin is hell bent on restoring soviet borders but then you tell us he wont because they're in NATO. Like which one is it.....they cant both be true?
Thanks for proving my point btw. :thumbsup:
Then ask yourself WHY literally EVERY Warsaw Pact nation without the word "Russia" in their name broke the Land-Speed Record for joining NATO. Is that because they all trust harmless little Russia so much that they joined NATO just to get some of these sweet, sweet doughnuts that Victoria Nuland gives out?
Or is it because of Russia's historic propensity for invading and genociding it's neighbors?
Again, take all the time you need work that out.
Regime change, pro western governments being installed and FREE MONEY. We've literally covered this over and over B/B, are you trolling?
It might have got up Russia's nose but they never started a war over it until Ukraine, the final stop before Moscow was flooded with dollars and NATO equipment.
Sure: He has not invaded the Baltics, which are in NATO, but he has invaded Ukraine, which is, sadly for itself, not in NATO.
True. Which is why he did it now otherwise it becomes a global conflict. Not that hard to work out.
And that's different from the US how exactly? Oh I forget....you guys are allowed to do what the f@ck you want without consequence. Russia bad.
First, this is complete "Whataboutism."
Second, we learned from the best, my British friend. :P
Lol yea we're hardly role models but it was easier to get away with prior to the inter web. And as we learned the other night, big countries control small ones.
But it isn't whataboutism is it because it's directly related. The US has been involved and admitted their role in NATO expansion. We watched what's been happening in Ukraine, listened to leaked discussions and saw the effects.
You guys cant seriously sit there and say yea we've been meddling in places on the other side of the world and right next door to our appointed enemies, who have historical, religious and ethnic ties with one another but we can justify turning them over to our team, to dance to our song because we're the good guys.
We're doing exactly the same as Russia did, albeit without the geography, history, culture, religion and ethnicity but they're the bad ones..... :scared0005:
Headline: "VICKY NULAND INVADES RUSSIA; HANDS OUT DOUGHNUTS TO UNSUSPECTING RUSSIANS!"
Nobody was going to invade Russia, although it turns out that the Russian Army, much like Notre Dame football, was massively overrated.
Nobody said they would, at least not any time soon and you know that. At least I hope you do because tanks rolling into Moscow isn't what they mean by a security threat.
Surrounding Russia's European flank with NATO members, installation of pro western/anti Russian governments and policies which would isolate and weaken Russia economically and military, is a threat. Nobody invaded the US but putting Nukes in Cuba was a threat yes? What we did in Ukraine was unnecessary but we knew it would piss off Russia, so we did it anyway.
We all know that sticky Vicky and the Neo con Warhawks would move onto Russia next, as part of the big plan. Isolate, weaken, promote social unrest, turn the folks against Putin, replace with a pro western simp. Bobs your uncle, Fannies your ant and Russia are off the table.
Riiiiight. USA helps a people in distress and being murdered by their genocidal imperialist neighbor: AMERICA BAD! AMERICA BAD!
Putin could have had 95% of what he wanted without invading anyone, but, well Russian Nationalism. It probably never occurred to him not to.
B/B
Go on then just for kicks, who did the US save in recent times without absolutely wrecking the place and killing millions? Libya? Syria? Iraq? Somalia? Afghanistan? Haiti? Panama......I'll wait.
And that murdering, genocidal, imperialist neighbour (oh the irony coming from a septic) would never have set foot in poor little Ukraine had the CIA not got stuck into it, with their play sheet.
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Which is why the UK and the USA should not have financed the war, both with cash and weapons.
Imagine if Putin had not invaded Ukraine, and there, I dunno, WASN'T A FUKCING WAR?
There was, since 2014 for 8 years already and nobody cared.
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During the fantasy history that Putin that gave Tucker Carlson like all of his other propaganda it leaves out so very many facts. This is a map where Mongolia wants their land back. I am sure you guys all understand. In 1471 Russia did not own any of Ukraine.
[attachimg=1]
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During the fantasy history that Putin that gave Tucker Carlson like all of his other propaganda it leaves out so very many facts. This is a map where Mongolia wants their land back. I am sure you guys all understand. In 1471 Russia did not own any of Ukraine.
Unsurprisingly, you missed the whole point of his scene setting introduction.
History, the accuracy of it all and perspective is of course up for debate but we know that stuff happened and we generally agree about most of it. Even if parts of Putins history lesson was inaccurate or bias from a Russian perspective, the reality is that Ukraine and Russia are connected in history and heritage. The US doesn't share geography, history, language, ethnicity, religion, cultural, economic or political bonds...until very recently.
Whether its right or wrong for Russia to hang onto what is now Ukraine is certainly a fair debate but is it more right or wrong to have the US charge their way in and divide it all up, as they see fit? Particularly when the US has an ulterior motive to cause a divide and assist a separation.
I think EU membership wouldn't have been as much a drama but blatant regime change, boasting of NATO membership, the flow of weapons into the country and funding a civil war, certainly was.
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During the fantasy history that Putin that gave Tucker Carlson like all of his other propaganda it leaves out so very many facts. This is a map where Mongolia wants their land back. I am sure you guys all understand. In 1471 Russia did not own any of Ukraine.
Unsurprisingly, you missed the whole point of his scene setting introduction.
Actually the post & map of Tex was rather amusing.
History, the accuracy of it all and perspective is of course up for debate but we know that stuff happened and we generally agree about most of it. Even if parts of Putins history lesson was inaccurate or bias from a Russian perspective, the reality is that Ukraine and Russia are connected in history and heritage. The US doesn't share geography, history, language, ethnicity, religion, cultural, economic or political bonds...until very recently.
Putin said that he would explain the history in 30 seconds this took about 30 minutes, maybe he needs a new watch? He framed using his interpretation of ‘history’ to T. Carlson that Ukraine was and should remain a vassal state to Russia. I suspect a large percentage of citizens of Ukraine would disagree.
Whether its right or wrong for Russia to hang onto what is now Ukraine is certainly a fair debate but is it more right or wrong to have the US charge their way in and divide it all up, as they see fit? Particularly when the US has an ulterior motive to cause a divide and assist a separation.
Right or wrong was setteld in 1991 and affirmed in 1994. Ukraine historically has always been Western looking. The foundation of Donetsk and surrounding area was the English. Until Putin began mededeling there were no divisions. I assume when you speak of separation you are referring to Russia.
I think EU membership wouldn't have been as much a drama but blatant regime change, boasting of NATO membership, the flow of weapons into the country and funding a civil war, certainly was.
There was no civil war until V. Putin decided away games was a good strategy. Share with all how that is going.
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Whoever made this decision is very foolish. This sort of mentality only hurts peace prospects and drives people apart.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/Lvov-opera-drops-mezzo-soprano-112500768.html
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I think you're better than that B/B.
IOW, you know I’m right, but it makes you mad.
But please tell us why NATO and the US keep scaring everyone, telling us that Russia is about to invade the Baltics. I mean let's listen to you in this very conversation.
and
You think Russia will invade because Putin is hell bent on restoring soviet borders but then you tell us he wont because they're in NATO. Like which one is it.....they cant both be true?
Stop being intentionally dense. There is what Putin WANTS to do, and then there is what Putin is CAPABLE of. Those are two very different things.
Regime change, pro western governments being installed and FREE MONEY. We've literally covered this over and over B/B, are you trolling?
No, not at all. After finally having been given a free choice, the peoples of E. Europe who could OVERWHELMINGLY chose democracy, the West and NATO.
It might have got up Russia's nose but they never started a war over it until Ukraine, the final stop before Moscow was flooded with dollars and NATO equipment.
Thank you for admitting that Russia started the war.
Also, the Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Hungarians would like a word.
Also how exactly was Russia going to be flooded with dollars and NATO equipment? This sounds like the usual pro-Russian whinge “Poor widdle Russia! Always the VICTIM!”
If America wanted to be in Moscow, we would be. What the Ukr war has shown is how fraudulent the Russian Army’s badass reputation was.
That’s why Russia keeps yapping about nukes; they know their army sux.
True. Which is why he did it now otherwise it becomes a global conflict. Not that hard to work out.
Not really, it would be Everyone v Russia, with China hoping the US :censored: s it up and they get to Taiwan faster.
Taiwan owes Ukraine a debt. Now, in Beijing, the generals must ponder, “What if Taiwan fights back like Ukraine?”
But it isn't whataboutism is it because it's directly related.
Not at all. And if you want to have this discussion, I can simply point to Russia’s long history of genociding its neighbors, who then, unsurprisingly, decided it was better to cast their lot with NATO and the West.
The US has been involved and admitted their role in NATO expansion.
Of course. The former Warsaw Pact nations came to NATO for protection, and they were welcomed in. They came to the EU and applied for membership and were welcomed home.
We watched what's been happening in Ukraine, listened to leaked discussions and saw the effects.
Yes, Russia saw that it was losing its grip on one of the last vestiges of Empire and tried to hold onto it. They wrongly assumed (a) that their Badass Army was actually badass, and (b) America wouldn’t care. They were wrong on both counts.
{Blah, blah, blah….America is sucky and mean!}
Entirely irrelevant.
Nobody said they would, at least not any time soon and you know that. At least I hope you do because tanks rolling into Moscow isn't what they mean by a security threat.
Then what was the bit about Moscow being flooded with dollars and NATO Equipment?
Surrounding Russia's European flank with NATO members, installation of pro western/anti Russian governments and policies which would isolate and weaken Russia economically and military, is a threat. Nobody invaded the US but putting Nukes in Cuba was a threat yes? What we did in Ukraine was unnecessary but we knew it would piss off Russia, so we did it anyway.
First, Russia did a fan- :censored: ing-tastic job of DOUBLING its border with NATO members by DRIVING Sweden & Finland into NATO’s arms. Nice work! They can’t act like they do and then whine that nobody likes them. Also by attempting to absorb Ukraine, they would suddenly border Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and more of Poland than they do already.
Second, the Russians don’t get to dictate to the free peoples of E. Europe what they have to do bc Russia “says so”.
Third, “But muuuh CUBA!!!” The USA is not and was not going to put nukes in Ukraine. When there were nukes in Cuba, the USA did not invade Cuba. Another non-point you are (not) landing.
We all know that sticky Vicky and the Neo con Warhawks would move onto Russia next, as part of the big plan.
How do we “know” that? What were they gong to do before that isn’t happening now as a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? What’s the thinking on that? “We don’t want to be boycotted and isolated, so we are going to invade Ukraine and get boycotted and isolated!”* That doesn’t exactly seem like a plus move…..
Isolate, weaken, promote social unrest, turn the folks against Putin, replace with a pro western simp. Bobs your uncle, Fannies your ant and Russia are off the table.
This is ridiculous. Again “Poor widdle Russia is the VICTIM!!!”
Go on then just for kicks, who did the US save in recent times without absolutely wrecking the place and killing millions? Libya? Syria? Iraq? Somalia? Afghanistan? Haiti? Panama......I'll wait.
I was in Panama recently. They love America and Americans. Same with Grenada. We generally are not good at nation-building in places that are despotic and/or 3rd world. You can’t shine shit. But we are pretty good at in Europe and Ukraine isn’t some 3rd world shithole. I am sure they will do fine once Russia is removed.
And that murdering, genocidal, imperialist neighbour (oh the irony coming from a septic) would never have set foot in poor little Ukraine had the CIA not got stuck into it, with their play sheet.
Again, my British friend, we learned from the best. Did you know that the most common non-religious holiday celebrated around the world is…independence from the UK, celebrated, on average about every 6 days. /heh
And Russia had designs on Crimea for many years and the notion that they would have left it alone “if only” the Big Mean USA hadn’t “interfered” is odoriferous manure indeed. Russia badly miscalculated, and now they their spin doctors try to make it about America. And yet 2 years on, they are bogged down, and half of their tank fleet destroyed, and America hasn't lifted a finger.
B/B
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I used to be hated here because I kept saying Russia was going to invade Ukraine. But like you always say, I am never right just USA hate Russia propaganda.
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IOW, you know I’m right, but it makes you mad.
Lol dream on.....
Stop being intentionally dense. There is what Putin WANTS to do, and then there is what Putin is CAPABLE of. Those are two very different things.
Again lol. What I said is still correct.
No, not at all. After finally having been given a free choice, the peoples of E. Europe who could OVERWHELMINGLY chose democracy, the West and NATO.
Like I said before - free money, pro western governments being installed & regime change.
Thank you for admitting that Russia started the war.
Eh yea. The war started when Russia pushed their military into Ukraine. The precursor was decades of the US intentionally pissing off Russia and forcing that play. Stop being dense.
If America wanted to be in Moscow, we would be. What the Ukr war has shown is how fraudulent the Russian Army’s badass reputation was.
Dream on, America wouldn't get 10 clicks past the border control before Nukes started flying towards Washington. You lot will do nothing so sit down and focus on the camel jocky's.
Also how exactly was Russia going to be flooded with dollars and NATO equipment? This sounds like the usual pro-Russian whinge “Poor widdle Russia! Always the VICTIM!”
Reading skills B/B.
....it got up Russia's nose but they never started a war over it until Ukraine........the final stop before Moscow.........was flooded with dollars and NATO equipment.
Not really, it would be Everyone v Russia.....
Jesus what do they feed you lot over there? :chuckle:
Not at all.
Yes it is.
Then what was the bit about Moscow being flooded with dollars and NATO Equipment?
Your reading skills tripped you up here too.
Again, my British friend, we learned from the best. Did you know that the most common non-religious holiday celebrated around the world is…independence from the UK, celebrated, on average about every 6 days. /heh
You obviously didn't learn the lesson you should have then, did you!! :chuckle:
Russia badly miscalculated....
They certainly did. Putin clearly didn't expect the collective West to bankrupt itself in order to bail out Ukraine but I'm sure they'd do it all over again because the only other play was to roll over and become a lapdog themselves.
This just goes round and round. I certainly don't see Russia as the victims. I do understand however, that this didn't just all happen by itself and that a US led West has been looking to weaken Russia with their dark arts until push came to shove. There's so much evidence out there but you sound like you're rocking around the globe thinking there's good guys and bad guys, the world is super simple and everyone loves the good old USA.......
It's little wonder folks like Assange have been silenced, otherwise the sheep might just realise that their shepherd, is only there to fatten them up.
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IOW, you know I’m right, but it makes you mad.
Lol dream on.....
Stop being intentionally dense. There is what Putin WANTS to do, and then there is what Putin is CAPABLE of. Those are two very different things.
Again lol. What I said is still correct.
No, not at all. After finally having been given a free choice, the peoples of E. Europe who could OVERWHELMINGLY chose democracy, the West and NATO.
Like I said before - free money, pro western governments being installed & regime change.
Thank you for admitting that Russia started the war.
Eh yea. The war started when Russia pushed their military into Ukraine. The precursor was decades of the US intentionally pissing off Russia and forcing that play. Stop being dense.
If America wanted to be in Moscow, we would be. What the Ukr war has shown is how fraudulent the Russian Army’s badass reputation was.
Dream on, America wouldn't get 10 clicks past the border control before Nukes started flying towards Washington. You lot will do nothing so sit down and focus on the camel jocky's.
Also how exactly was Russia going to be flooded with dollars and NATO equipment? This sounds like the usual pro-Russian whinge “Poor widdle Russia! Always the VICTIM!”
Reading skills B/B.
....it got up Russia's nose but they never started a war over it until Ukraine........the final stop before Moscow.........was flooded with dollars and NATO equipment.
Not really, it would be Everyone v Russia.....
Jesus what do they feed you lot over there? :chuckle:
Not at all.
Yes it is.
Then what was the bit about Moscow being flooded with dollars and NATO Equipment?
Your reading skills tripped you up here too.
Again, my British friend, we learned from the best. Did you know that the most common non-religious holiday celebrated around the world is…independence from the UK, celebrated, on average about every 6 days. /heh
You obviously didn't learn the lesson you should have then, did you!! :chuckle:
Russia badly miscalculated....
They certainly did. Putin clearly didn't expect the collective West to bankrupt itself in order to bail out Ukraine but I'm sure they'd do it all over again because the only other play was to roll over and become a lapdog themselves.
This just goes round and round. I certainly don't see Russia as the victims. I do understand however, that this didn't just all happen by itself and that a US led West has been looking to weaken Russia with their dark arts until push came to shove. There's so much evidence out there but you sound like you're rocking around the globe thinking there's good guys and bad guys, the world is super simple and everyone loves the good old USA.......
It's little wonder folks like Assange have been silenced, otherwise the sheep might just realise that their shepherd, is only there to fatten them up.
Well said Rosco.
Meanwhile the current administration has allowed Millions of illegal immigrants into the US. This article estimates that 30,000 of them could be real terrorists. What could possibly go wrong?
https://www.theblaze.com/news/30000-migrants-with-possible-ties-to-terrorism-or-other-nefarious-activity-released-into-us-report
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For those unable to piece the jigsaw together and think that this is all simply down to Russia being genocidal murdering imperialists, its time to learn.
Here's the US Warhawks from 2015, in Ukraine, not even hiding their agenda from the cameras and openly bragging about giving the newly installed Ukrainian government, everything it needs to beat Russia.
John McCain, Lindsey Graham and some other bloke openly doing what the Us have always done. It then cuts to 2022 and they talk about dead Russians and saying it's the best money they've ever spent.
And some people still point the finger at Russia and think it's simply good virus evil and everyone loves the US because you guys are the saviours :scared0005:
https://www.tiktok.com/@tadek2023/video/7335873686177598753?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
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Western media coverage from the frontline is now slow, if not non existent and I think that the silence speaks volumes. However, it's being reported that Ukrainian troops have been retreating in many areas along the front and Russia are advancing towards cities and strategic strong holds as we speak. They aren't however, going on a full offensive and are looking to consolidate in the areas adopted into the RF.
The reason for this comes down to Ukraine being unable to match Russia's ammunition supplies, poorly trained and motivated soldiers being thrown into the trenches and Russia focusing on key areas.
The clip below uses Western analysts and John Kirby to confirm what the Russian media has been reporting.
https://www.tiktok.com/@smoothmantucker/video/7336101917656993056?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7312100454534891041
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Putin wants to return to the pre-1991 borders, including the Baltics, Ukraine, etc. being under Russian domination and the same for the former buffer states.
Even bright Americans sometimes get sucked in by the US media Newspeak.
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Putin - We have no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else. It goes against common sense to get involved in some kind of global war.
Nikki Haley nearly aways gets it wrong, however Putin tells all sorts of porkie
pies publicly.
Vladimir Putin says Russia will not invade Ukraine but sends warning to West
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-28/russia-says-no-room-for-compromise-over-ukraine-as-tensions-mount
Putin says military drills 'purely defensive' and 'not a threat'
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-putin-says-military-drills-purely-defensive-and-not-a-threat-as-western-leaders-warn-invasion-imminent-12545284
"It is not our plan to occupy Ukrainian territory. We have no intention of imposing anything on anyone by force."
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/russia/article/2023/10/01/russia-uses-lies-as-weapons-of-mass-destruction_6142383_140.html#
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-opponent-us-aid-ukraine-114840351.html
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Rep. JD Lang actually explained the nefarious context of this aid to Ukraine. There will be a continuing money bleed for the next 3 years to support ukraines government employees and pensions with no oversight.
More importantly, the bill carries full protection in the event someone else became president other than the Democrat contingent including any possibility of them losing Senate majority.
Considering the state of our domestic affairs with inflation, growing indebtedness, homelessness and the rest of our dire socio-economic problems, this entire madness is purely evil. The money wasted, yes wasted considering the insane number of dead Ukrainian/russian youths and the corrupted governance of Ukraine itself as a direct result of all our action in this nation - just simply boggles the mind how there’s the lot of you that actually believes this is good for Ukraine. Phucking koolaid-gulping snowflakes.
Ukrainians declared they’re prepared to die to the last man, then sheeehush Christy what are they waiting for, why the phuck do they need everyone else’s money to do just that? Go straight to the line of fire and walk your freaking talk.
Let Zelensky lead the way and be done with this incredibly stupid chapter. Take Schumer, McConnel, Obama and the rest of the phucking DC shmucks along and do America and the world a favor for a change.
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More importantly, the bill carries full protection in the event someone else became president other than the Democrat contingent including any possibility of them losing Senate majority.
That sounds democratic. Let's implement election proof policy in the event we get voted out for being incompetent but we can still carry on our global conflicts.
Only in America.....
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Rep. JD Lang actually explained the nefarious context of this aid to Ukraine. There will be a continuing money bleed for the next 3 years to support ukraines government employees and pensions with no oversight.
Apologies. I was streaming KD Lang while I posted my post. It’s JD Vance in his interview online.
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The Munich Security Conference (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8uJLp8oT5o) touching on Ukrainian aid, and the overall Europe's security readiness. Interesting comment the representative from Germany made that last year they 'went ahead' and spent their obligatory 2% of GDP share (as if they're doing anyone a favor) and took offense to Trump's recent statement.
They've been a NATO member how many years now? All of the sudden at the alleged threat Russia supposedly represent they decide to hurry up and catch up with their sworn obligation that they now get offended at a Trump remark alluding to the reality the US doesn't have enough weapon stash to shield everyone as a result of the glaring inadequacy of it's members contribution. :laugh:
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What is really interesting is pretty well all the shops here are still open or just changed the name and so on, nothing really changed.
But Hugo Boss still has closed shops here, just sat empty. They are not happy Putin invaded as they say Ukraine :chuckle:
Funny the Germans last European invasion which was not really so long ago involved the mass extermination of about 5 million people .. women, kids, all shot and gassed to death..
And now they have the bloody audacity to close Hugo Boss in Russia , which also used prisoners of war to build their brand up JUST a few years ago.. :chuckle:
What a funny world we live in..
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Up to 1,000 Ukrainian soldiers were captured following the chaotic retreat from Avdiivka, according to a number of reliable sources. Many more wounded Ukrainians were abandoned in the freezing cold, with the Russian army saving and treating those who were left behind.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/20/hundreds-ukrainian-soldiers-captured-withdrawal-avdiivka/
And reports from Ukrainians who did manage to survive, the wounded were abandoned, command stopped answering them and following artillery strikes on retreating Ukrainians, there were too many dead to count as they fled. They think that less than 40% of the soldiers made it out alive.
https://eaworldview.com/2024/02/ukraine-war-avdiivka-no-evacuation/
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Ukraine is ready to send troops to Beijing, Teheran or North Korea if they U.S. needs it. Says Goncharenko.
https://www.tiktok.com/@wallstreetcrtel/video/7339269655611051296?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
Ukraine really is a US lapdog these days.
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Ukraine is ready to send troops to Beijing, Teheran or North Korea if they U.S. needs it. Says Goncharenko.
https://www.tiktok.com/@wallstreetcrtel/video/7339269655611051296?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
Ukraine really is a US lapdog these days.
Get real nobody is going to be sent from to Ukraine to fight anywhere. Yea have been made a lap dog because Russia made them that. If Russia did not attack them they would not of become that. They have not been receiving weapons for three months now and the war is not doing as well as before. Europe not making up the loss of US support as pro-Russian forces in US congress continue to stall aid to Ukraine. After 400 years of fighting to not be part of Russia they would rather be USA allies than to go back to being part of Russia.
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Ukraine is ready to send troops to Beijing, Teheran or North Korea if they U.S. needs it. Says Goncharenko.
https://www.tiktok.com/@wallstreetcrtel/video/7339269655611051296?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
Ukraine really is a US lapdog these days.
They have the “second strongest army in the world”? He will, without a doubt, sell Texan77 the Brooklyn Bridge, too.
Ukraine’s army now is made up of unwilling middle aged, ill trained men, mixed in with women and forced conscript.
Ukraine need to seek peace. Stop this nonsense.
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Ukraine really is a US lapdog these days.
We made room for them on our lap next to the British. :chuckle:
Ukraine is grateful for the help that the West and NATO have provided. Does is come as a shock that they would pledge loyalty? The USA is the reason they still have a COUNTRY. American (and NATO) Equipment is why Russia won't send it's T90s or T-14s to Ukraine any more. Not sure what is confusing, here.
B/B
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Get real nobody is going to be sent from to Ukraine to fight anywhere.
Ukraine have soldiers fighting in the Middle East as we speak. Read man FFS.
They have not been receiving weapons for three months now and the war is not doing as well as before. Europe not making up the loss of US support as pro-Russian forces in US congress continue to stall aid to Ukraine.
I've personally linked you to government sources, discussing the arms trade to Ukraine over the last few weeks. Over the last few days, more countries have sent weapons to Ukraine.
Are you stupid or il?
After 400 years of fighting to not be part of Russia they would rather be USA allies than to go back to being part of Russia.
Yea tell that to the majority in Crimea and the eastern Oblasts, who've been murdered, abused ands persecuted by the US backed Ukrainian regime for the last 9 years.
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We made room for them on our lap next to the British. :chuckle:
Lets not confuse those in power with the British public.
Ukraine is grateful for the help that the West and NATO have provided. Does is come as a shock that they would pledge loyalty?
Say it out loud B/B, they've been bought and the current regime who cancelled elections and arrested the opposition are firmly in your pocket.
But yea lets call it loyalty :ROFL:
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NATO soldiers 'already present' in Ukraine, Polish foreign minister says.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-putin-election-navy-sky-news-blog-latest-12541713
The Polish foreign minister has risked causing controversy by saying that "NATO military personnel are already present in Ukraine". Radoslaw Sikorski, who was speaking during a conference, did not disclose which countries he was talking about. "I would like to thank the ambassadors of those countries who have taken that risk. These countries know who they are, but I can't disclose them. Contrary to other politicians, I will not list those countries," he said.
It's not clear in what capacity the soldiers are being used. It comes after German military officials were heard suggesting UK service personnel were on the ground in Ukraine in a leaked phone call. The UK previously said it had sent small units to the country to help with medical training but did not foresee large-scale deployments.
Russia has warned of the inevitability of direct conflict between itself and NATO if foreign troops were to be sent to Ukraine.
- Our western leaders are literally sleep walking us into WW3 and anyone who suggests that this is wrong or dangerous, is labelled a Putin sympathiser or a pro Russian supporter. It's crystal clear to everybody that this is officially a proxy war, funded, planned and armed by the West whilst executed with Ukrainian hands.
Long range missiles, F16's and NATO personnel on the ground was originally an admission of NATO fighting Russia and this is all now happening, right under our noses. All so unnecessary and avoidable by all on both sides.
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Russia producing three times more artillery shells than West is for Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-putin-election-navy-sky-news-blog-latest-12541713
Russia and Ukraine are locked in a "production war" - and Moscow is steaming ahead, a senior European intelligence official has said. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity to CNN, said Russia is on track to produce nearly three times more artillery munitions than the US and Europe is for Ukraine.
Moscow is producing about 250,000 artillery munitions per month, or three million a year, according to NATO intelligence estimates shared with the broadcaster. The US and Europe, meanwhile, have the capacity to make about 1.2 million munitions annually to send to Ukraine.
The US set a goal of producing 100,000 rounds of artillery a month by the end of 2025, which amounts to less than half of Russia's monthly output. The senior NATO official warned we are now in a "production war". "The outcome in Ukraine depends on how each side is equipped to conduct this war," they said.
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I thought this would be a good post, in light of Tex's opinion regarding old equipment being used to hold up a poor Russian military. Tex seems to think a smaller poorly equipped Ukraine, using old Western weaponry are beating the might of the Russian military, which is of course fantasy. Without western weapons and the support required to use them effectively, this conflict would have been over long ago.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-latest-war-putin-live-updates-12541713
High-ranking Ukrainian officers warn of great risk of frontlines collapsing.
A number of Ukrainian military officers have offered a grim assessment of the situation on the ground as Russia takes the upper hand. The high-ranking officers, who served under ousted commander-in-chief General Valery Zaluzhny, told POLITICO there is a great risk of the frontlines collapsing wherever Russia chooses to focus its offensive. They warned Russia is currently gathering resources and should be ready to launch a "big attack" around August or potentially sooner. It will likely be able to "penetrate the front line and to crash it in some parts", they said.
He said only Ukrainian resilience and errors by Russian commanders could change the situation - although they did not want to rely on Russian mistakes. Speaking about Western weaponry, one officer said: "Zaluzhny used to call it 'the War of One Chance'.
"By that, he meant weapons systems become redundant very quickly because they're quickly countered by the Russians. For example, we used Storm Shadow and SCALP cruise missiles [supplied by Britain and France] successfully - but just for a short time. The Russians are always studying. They don't give us a second chance.
And they're successful in this."
He urged people not to believe the "hype" about Russia "just throwing troops into the meat grinder to be slaughtered". "They do that too, of course, maximising even more the impact of their superior numbers, but they also learn and refine."
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And here's the stupidity of the whole thing - David Cameron asking for more weapons so that Ukraine can win. What does he mean by win because nobody believes that Ukraine will beat Russia on the battlefield and drive them out of Crimea and the Eastern parts of former Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-latest-war-putin-live-updates-12541713
British foreign secretary to call for NATO allies to boost defence spending.
Lord Cameron will be calling on NATO allies to boost defence spending and production in support of Ukraine, in a speech marking 75 years of the military alliance. The foreign secretary will warn members of the alliance need to "step up and spend more on defence in the face of continued Russian aggression and a more dangerous world".
"With Ukraine closer to NATO than ever, we must sustain the critical support Ukraine needs to win the war," he will say.
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NATO soldiers 'already present' in Ukraine, Polish foreign minister says.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-putin-election-navy-sky-news-blog-latest-12541713
The Estonian military is now saying that all NATO countries have their forces deployed in Ukraine. Apparently, Romania is going to deploy its forces to fight rather than merely acting as trainers and support staff.
Tick Tock.
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Russia using foreign students as slave labor to make weapons.
Following the drone attack, at least 13 individuals, including two 17-year-olds, sustained injuries, with a workers’ dormitory being hit. Tatarstan’s Health Ministry confirmed that all the wounded were students from Alabuga Polytechnic College. The nationalities of the injured, as reported by the Russian news site Insider.RU on Wednesday, include students from Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Congo, Kenya, Nigeria, and South Sudan. Currently, six of the injured individuals remain hospitalized.
Evidence uncovered by investigative journalists prior to the attack had revealed that these students were compelled to work under harsh conditions at the factory, receiving meager wages and facing threats of hefty fines should they refuse to work or be expelled. This discovery casts a grim light on the human toll of the conflict, where young lives are entangled in the production of weapons of war.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-bold-raid-on-russian-drone-plant-results-in-numerous-casualties/ar-BB1lcgSa?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=f84f9e36f2704549ac217cdfb3c3e75d&ei=11
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NATO soldiers 'already present' in Ukraine, Polish foreign minister says.
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-putin-election-navy-sky-news-blog-latest-12541713
The Estonian military is now saying that all NATO countries have their forces deployed in Ukraine. Apparently, Romania is going to deploy its forces to fight rather than merely acting as trainers and support staff.
Tick Tock.
Actually, that is not quite right. These people are called trainer. But it is not really the Ukraine army they are training. Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to lean combat methods. With the little aid they are getting from the west there is no way they should still exist. Romina has said they would go to war with Russia if Russia invades Moldavia. No plans to send any body to front lines at current time. It is amazing how things get turned around. The French is planning to send 2000 or so troops to basically study the Ukrainian Army that will do some support roles. Europe is increasing learning they will be next if Ukraine falls. Donald trump coming to white house and possibly abandoning the war has a lot of governments in Europe scared. It is just the propagandized pro-Russian people here cannot see Russia for the Nazi country it really is.
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Russia using foreign students as slave labor to make weapons.
Following the drone attack, at least 13 individuals, including two 17-year-olds, sustained injuries, with a workers’ dormitory being hit. Tatarstan’s Health Ministry confirmed that all the wounded were students from Alabuga Polytechnic College. The nationalities of the injured, as reported by the Russian news site Insider.RU on Wednesday, include students from Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Congo, Kenya, Nigeria, and South Sudan. Currently, six of the injured individuals remain hospitalized.
Evidence uncovered by investigative journalists prior to the attack had revealed that these students were compelled to work under harsh conditions at the factory, receiving meager wages and facing threats of hefty fines should they refuse to work or be expelled. This discovery casts a grim light on the human toll of the conflict, where young lives are entangled in the production of weapons of war.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-bold-raid-on-russian-drone-plant-results-in-numerous-casualties/ar-BB1lcgSa?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=f84f9e36f2704549ac217cdfb3c3e75d&ei=11
Unpublished evidence, allegedly uncovered by unnamed journalists in a fictional unlinked report, suggest the students are working in slave labour camps and being threatened and beaten. Unless said report by said journalists is published or linked and verified, it sounds like foreign students making side cash by working in Russian factories.
In fact the only thing that could be confirmed, is that Ukraine have bombed and killed foreign students and civilians, living in civilian accommodation in Russia. It's amazing how some people cant see the wood from the trees.
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Actually, that is not quite right. These people are called trainer. But it is not really the Ukraine army they are training. Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to lean combat methods. With the little aid they are getting from the west there is no way they should still exist. Romina has said they would go to war with Russia if Russia invades Moldavia. No plans to send any body to front lines at current time. It is amazing how things get turned around. The French is planning to send 2000 or so troops to basically study the Ukrainian Army that will do some support roles. Europe is increasing learning they will be next if Ukraine falls. Donald trump coming to white house and possibly abandoning the war has a lot of governments in Europe scared. It is just the propagandized pro-Russian people here cannot see Russia for the Nazi country it really is.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Some people clearly live in an alternate universe.
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Some people clearly live in an alternate universe.
I'm sure the SAS could learn loads, observing pregnant women and scared pensioners, hiding in trenches from artillery barrages.
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Some people clearly live in an alternate universe.
Ukraine has 1/10 the artillery, 1/5 the air force, 1/4 the tanks, one 1/2 the troops, a small fraction of the drones and the list goes on with Russian advantages. Their best equipment is left over western junk much of which they do not have ammo for. There is no way this country should exist.
You guys are so used to Russia excuses for its failures by claiming how much the west is doing and that they are at war with NATO not Ukraine that you cannot see the facts.
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Some people clearly live in an alternate universe.
Ukraine has 1/10 the artillery, 1/5 the air force, 1/4 the tanks, one 1/2 the troops, a small fraction of the drones and the list goes on with Russian advantages. Their best equipment is left over western junk much of which they do not have ammo for. There is no way this country should exist.
You guys are so used to Russia excuses for its failures by claiming how much the west is doing and that they are at war with NATO not Ukraine that you cannot see the facts.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to learn combat methods.
:ROFL:
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Russian Nazis kill again.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/another-russian-dissident-turns-up-dead-in-kremlin-custody/ar-BB1lhMyC?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=51529ab863e047e1ae1c0fb977acf60a&ei=10
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Russian Nazis kill again.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/another-russian-dissident-turns-up-dead-in-kremlin-custody/ar-BB1lhMyC?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=51529ab863e047e1ae1c0fb977acf60a&ei=10
Care to share the proof or is it just more made up tales and finger pointing?
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Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to lean combat methods. With the little aid they are getting from the west there is no way they should still exist.
Russia has lost between 40k-50k dead and another 40-50k injured. Ukraine has over 400k dead and god knows how many injured.
Ukraine have also received $100's billion in aid and some of the best western weaponry available and yes, they've put up a great fight but at what cost.
Ukraine isn't efficient, they aren't doing anything special and with people leaving the country as fast as they can, this war won't last forever.
https://www.tiktok.com/@censoredvoice/video/7348225016850287914?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
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Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to lean combat methods. With the little aid they are getting from the west there is no way they should still exist.
Russia has lost between 40k-50k dead and another 40-50k injured. Ukraine has over 400k dead and god knows how many injured.
While estimates vary considerably as to losses on both sides. It can be noted that Ukraine would not have an army, if there losses were 400,000. Of course if one depends on either TikTok or MSN for there information than the axiom ‘garbage in garbage out’ holds true.
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Rosco that is just Russian propaganda numbers. The numbers are closer to the other way around. Almost every weapon system Ukraine has Russia has claimed to have destroy more of that system than Ukraine ever had.
Traditionally a net exporter of gasoline, Russia finds itself in an unprecedented position, compelled to import fuel to satisfy domestic demand.
This shift comes in the wake of a series of Ukrainian drone strikes that have critically impaired Russian refining capabilities. The Russian oil industry has sustained significant setbacks, with drone assaults striking refining facilities at least 12 times, including five notable instances in March alone.
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Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to lean combat methods. With the little aid they are getting from the west there is no way they should still exist.
Russia has lost between 40k-50k dead and another 40-50k injured. Ukraine has over 400k dead and god knows how many injured.
While estimates vary considerably as to losses on both sides. It can be noted that Ukraine would not have an army, if there losses were 400,000. Of course if one depends on either TikTok or MSN for there information than the axiom ‘garbage in garbage out’ holds true.
You might want to read up about what's really happening.
Losses have been shockingly high on both sides but there's a reason pregnant women, pensioners, children & foreign fighters gather in the trenches and random Ukrainian blokes are being accosted on the street, to be sent to the front lines. Ukrainian blokes cant run away fast enough.
Ukraine have put up an almighty fight, armed with some of the best western equipment and the NLAW's, Javelin's and modern artillery supported by NATO intelligence has given them a decent chance. Until both the kit and the man power has been expended.
Ukraine are winning in the media but make no doubt about it, the front line forces have taken a pummelling and the lemming like reinforcement is finite.
In years from now, people like you will understand the true cost of this war to Ukraine. Right now, they cant afford to admit the truth otherwise moral would plummet and the foreign support would retreat in shock, with peace talks replacing Ukraine must win at all cost and the Europe is next BS.
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Rosco that is just Russian propaganda numbers.
Sadly its not Tex.
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Rosco that is just Russian propaganda numbers.
Sadly its not Tex.
Sadly it is!!!
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Ukraine is the world's most efficient army where the west is wanting to send people to lean combat methods. With the little aid they are getting from the west there is no way they should still exist.
Russia has lost between 40k-50k dead and another 40-50k injured. Ukraine has over 400k dead and god knows how many injured.
While estimates vary considerably as to losses on both sides. It can be noted that Ukraine would not have an army, if there losses were 400,000. Of course if one depends on either TikTok or MSN for there information than the axiom ‘garbage in garbage out’ holds true.
You might want to read up about what's really happening.
Losses have been shockingly high on both sides but there's a reason pregnant women, pensioners, children & foreign fighters gather in the trenches and random Ukrainian blokes are being accosted on the street, to be sent to the front lines. Ukrainian blokes cant run away fast enough.
Ukraine have put up an almighty fight, armed with some of the best western equipment and the NLAW's, Javelin's and modern artillery supported by NATO intelligence has given them a decent chance. Until both the kit and the man power has been expended.
Ukraine are winning in the media but make no doubt about it, the front line forces have taken a pummelling and the lemming like reinforcement is finite.
In years from now, people like you will understand the true cost of this war to Ukraine. Right now, they cant afford to admit the truth otherwise moral would plummet and the foreign support would retreat in shock, with peace talks replacing Ukraine must win at all cost and the Europe is next BS.
Rosco, you might try thinking.
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As we've been told, Russia started this unprovoked war in Ukraine and Putin will go on to attack country after country in Europe, if we don't stop him now.
Well given our support to fight Russia is reactionary rather than being an engineered conflict, it may surprise some of you what the US has spent in Ukraine since 2014.
$300 billion and counting........... :snivel:
https://www.tiktok.com/@itallstartswithin/video/7356123271579897093?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
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https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
Worth a look.
One has to remember that some of this spending, e.g., on arms, wasn't really spent, e.g., on arms already paid for long ago. Refilling stocks also brings funds back into the US economy and benefits the ability to replace old stock with new, updated weapons. Some logistics costs for bringing arms to the Ukraine border would be spent anyway. It's not like the US Air Force likes to keep airplanes on the ground. Ditto for personnel costs at some of the bordering staging areas.
I'm sure it's expensive, but don't know how much all this spending is above and beyond what would be spent anyway.
In terms of the big picture, you can be sure that if RU is allowed to take over Ukraine, current spending would be dwarfed by spending needed to beef up our defense posture and maintain a viable deterrence for future moves by RU.
As far as spending goes, lesser of two evils.
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Russia started this unprovoked war in Ukraine and Putin will go on to attack country after country in Europe, if we don't stop him now.
Perhaps there is hope.
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Russia started this unprovoked war in Ukraine and Putin will go on to attack country after country in Europe, if we don't stop him now.
Perhaps there is hope.
Nicely edited. You should become a journalist.
As we've been told, Russia started this unprovoked war in Ukraine......
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One has to remember that some of this spending, e.g., on arms, wasn't really spent, e.g., on arms already paid for long ago. Refilling stocks also brings funds back into the US economy and benefits the ability to replace old stock with new, updated weapons. Some logistics costs for bringing arms to the Ukraine border would be spent anyway.
That's pretty irrelevant. A shit tonne of weapons and military aid has been shipped into Ukraine over the last 10 years, arming government forces and far right (nazi) militias. That speaks volumes about the pre amble prior to the invasion and the reasons this war started in the first place.
In terms of the big picture, you can be sure that if RU is allowed to take over Ukraine, current spending would be dwarfed by spending needed to beef up our defense posture and maintain a viable deterrence for future moves by RU.
As far as spending goes, lesser of two evils.
Or in a more sensible world, the US kept out of Ukraine in the first place and millions wouldn't have been killed, injured or displaced, the environment wouldn't have taken a pounding and the world wouldn't be beefing anything up because there would be zero quarrel.
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From the senate.
"What does victory look like for Ukraine, how do you define victory?.......eh eh democracy, eh eh independent, stumble stumble can protect its territory and to to to da to deter aggression."
"In order for the war to be over, does Ukraine need to control Crimea?........eh eh mumble stumble I don't want to predict what Zelensky will decide."
"This administration has not articulated what the exit strategy is and to me this is just a blank cheque for an endless war without any clearly defined goals. We have no controls on how the money has been spent and victory hasn't been defined"
https://www.tiktok.com/@therealtruth1962/video/7356182927652162848?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7345135448354522656
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an endless war without any clearly defined goals
I was just using GPT doing some work and reading this, so I posed this question for fun: "Can you explain the premise that the USA needs constant war in order to feed its military-industrial complex and stop the dollar losing value?"
And AI or not, it knows:
The idea that the United States requires constant warfare to sustain its military-industrial complex and prevent the devaluation of the dollar is a theory often discussed in geopolitical and economic circles. This theory draws from several interconnected concepts:
Military-Industrial Complex: Coined by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in his farewell address in 1961, the term refers to the close relationship between the military establishment and the defense industry. It suggests that there is a vested interest in maintaining a state of preparedness for war, as it benefits both sectors economically. The defense industry thrives on government contracts for weapons, technology, and services, while the military relies on these industries for its equipment and support.
Economic Stimulus: Historically, wars and military conflicts have stimulated the economy. Governments often increase spending on defense during times of conflict, leading to increased production, job creation, and economic growth in certain sectors. This increased spending can help offset economic downturns or stagnation.
Global Hegemony and Reserve Currency Status: The theory also posits that the United States, as a global superpower, benefits from maintaining its military presence around the world to secure its geopolitical interests. Additionally, the U.S. dollar serves as the world's primary reserve currency, meaning it is widely used in international transactions and held by central banks as part of their foreign exchange reserves. Some argue that military interventions help maintain this dominant position by ensuring stability and protecting vital interests.
Dollar Hegemony and Petrodollar System: The dollar's status as the world's reserve currency is closely tied to the petrodollar system, which emerged in the 1970s. Under this system, oil transactions are predominantly conducted in U.S. dollars, requiring countries to hold large reserves of dollars to purchase oil. Some suggest that military interventions, particularly in oil-rich regions, are aimed at protecting this system and ensuring global demand for the dollar.
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Russia started this unprovoked war in Ukraine and Putin will go on to attack country after country in Europe, if we don't stop him now.
Perhaps there is hope.
Nicely edited. You should become a journalist.
As we've been told, Russia started this unprovoked war in Ukraine......
Perhaps you should not take your self so seriously, you are becoming Moby2.
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US Defence secretary Loyld Austin was asked in the senate, if Ukraine will join NATO. He then goes on to say that this is plan and Blinken made it clear in Brussels last week.
He was then asked if he was Russia would he want that, we're playing games with Russia right now so why would we do that. Austin replied, certainly if I was Russia I would not want that and I wouldn't want Finland and Sweden to be part of NATO.
So there we have it, US aggression, stirring up hostilities in Europe and causing the death, destruction and displacement of millions of people whist agreeing that the US wouldn't accept being treated, the way we've treated Russia. It's one rule for the US and another for everyone else.......
https://www.tiktok.com/@ugwumbadaily/video/7356631405046123818
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US Defence secretary Loyld Austin was asked in the senate, if Ukraine will join NATO. He then goes on to say that this is plan and Blinken made it clear in Brussels last week.
He was then asked if he was Russia would he want that, we're playing games with Russia right now so why would we do that. Austin replied, certainly if I was Russia I would not want that and I wouldn't want Finland and Sweden to be part of NATO.
So there we have it, US aggression, stirring up hostilities in Europe and causing the death, destruction and displacement of millions of people whist agreeing that the US wouldn't accept being treated, the way we've treated Russia. It's one rule for the US and another for everyone else.......
https://www.tiktok.com/@ugwumbadaily/video/7356631405046123818
Sweden and Finland, would have remained neutral if Russia (Putin) did not invade a sovereign nation that it guaranteed to respects its borders. Worth noting the Kremlin has a long history of invading and subjugating it’s neighbors.
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US Defence secretary Loyld Austin was asked in the senate, if Ukraine will join NATO. He then goes on to say that this is plan and Blinken made it clear in Brussels last week.
Why should they not? Russia has been demonstrating to them quite clearly as to why they should WANT to be in NATO. Du-uh.
He was then asked if he was Russia would he want that, we're playing games with Russia right now so why would we do that. Austin replied, certainly if I was Russia I would not want that and I wouldn't want Finland and Sweden to be part of NATO.
Ofc, but Russia doesn't get a veto over who joins NATO. If Putin's goal was for no more NATO expansion then he has failed miserably. He managed to frighten both Sweden and Finland right into NATO's arms.
So there we have it, US aggression, stirring up hostilities in Europe and causing the death, destruction and displacement of millions of people whist agreeing that the US wouldn't accept being treated, the way we've treated Russia. It's one rule for the US and another for everyone else.......
Kindly dial 1-800-GETOFFDRUGS. RUSSIA, not America, invaded Ukraine. RUSSIA, not America has been killing both Ukr combatants and non-combatants alike, to the tune of hundreds of thousands dead, mistreating Ukrainian prisoners, having little or no regard for women and children, RUSSIA, not America has forced the displacement of millions of Ukrainians. RUSSIA, not America, has destroyed BILLIONS in Ukrainian property.
Putin could have prevented this, and could stop it at any time.
Russia thought they were going to roll tanks into Kiev; they failed and have continued to fail for more than two years. Now they are stuck because of Russian national pride. Foolish. And here you and the other Putinistas are, with your constant WHINING about "buT AmeRiKa!!!" and how you want to talk about anything BUT Russia because you know it's a losing argument.
B/B
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Now they are stuck because of Russian national pride. Foolish.
I think it's more about one man with an inflated ego compensating for low self-esteem, having to find ways to maintain power and remain relevant on the world stage. It seems to be a thing nowadays. Far too many fall into this pot of fool's gold.
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The wars are a drain on the system not a benefit except to a very few. The war causes the dollar to lose values not support its value. Look at what happened during the Viet Nam war and the value of the US dollar. We had to go off the gold standard and had massive inflation in the early 1970 caused by the war. The other wars are just too small to affect the value of the dollar. But still, it is dropping in value mainly because aging population makes balancing the budget nearly impossible. The problem is this is not just a USA problem as this is happening in most of the industrialized world including Russia and China. There is no different between the USA dollar value and wars than Russia and its war in Ukraine. Look and see what the war did to value of ruble. You go back to when Russia started this mess in 2014 to present and you see it is not a benefit. Yes, every able body man in Russia has a job if he wants one. On the other hand, Russian assets are being drained. It was not until about the fifth year of the Viet Nam war that the damage to the US dollar was apparent and the huge recession set in that the war caused.
I was just using GPT doing some work and reading this, so I posed this question for fun: "Can you explain the premise that the USA needs constant war in order to feed its military-industrial complex and stop the dollar losing value?"
And AI or not, it knows:
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The wars are a drain on the system not a benefit except to a very few. The war causes the dollar to lose values not support its value. Look at what happened during the Viet Nam war and the value of the US dollar. We had to go off the gold standard and had massive inflation in the early 1970 caused by the war. The other wars are just too small to affect the value of the dollar. But still, it is dropping in value mainly because aging population makes balancing the budget nearly impossible. The problem is this is not just a USA problem as this is happening in most of the industrialized world including Russia and China. There is no different between the USA dollar value and wars than Russia and its war in Ukraine. Look and see what the war did to value of ruble. You go back to when Russia started this mess in 2014 to present and you see it is not a benefit. Yes, every able body man in Russia has a job if he wants one. On the other hand, Russian assets are being drained. It was not until about the fifth year of the Viet Nam war that the damage to the US dollar was apparent and the huge recession set in that the war caused.
Tex you're trying too hard to over complicate a relatively simple question. Occam's razor applies here. Inflation is the quiet but effective way for the government to transfer wealth from the people to themselves without raising taxes. The US ended the gold standard to allow it to print money unfettered as a way to develop the illusion of wealth and allow those in control to steal and finance anything they wish. In short, it allowed corruption to flourish.
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Ofc, but Russia doesn't get a veto over who joins NATO. If Putin's goal was for no more NATO expansion then he has failed miserably. He managed to frighten both Sweden and Finland right into NATO's arms.
B/B
Im in danger of repeating myself: the level of death&destruction currently applied by Russia to persuade Ukraine not to join NATO suggests otherwise.
Putin's goals were never about finland/sweden, he just didn't want Ukraine in NATO , seeing as that would amount to a HUGE border with NATO-allied country all of the sudden.
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Im in danger of repeating myself: the level of death&destruction currently applied by Russia to persuade Ukraine not to join NATO suggests otherwise.
And yet, two more nations have joined NATO, with likely more (other than Ukraine) in the offing. Russia's border with NATO has now DOUBLED in length.
That's a pretty big fail, Mark.
Putin's goals were never about finland/sweden, he just didn't want Ukraine in NATO , seeing as that would amount to a HUGE border with NATO-allied country all of the sudden.
Yes, yes, "Putin's goals were never...."
Were never what? WIN? Because for a guy with such an allegedly studly military - I guess we can reassess THAT now - he's not doing very well.
And re-read that bolded part again. He's got a long-ass border with NATO, now, doesn't he? Oopsy. Putin has really screwed the pooch on this.
His military has been exposed. He has lost 50% of his tank fleet without NATO firing a shot. He has done more to unite NATO since Lester B. Pearson, the Canadian statesman who thought it up. He has amply demonstrated to everyone in the neighborhood why they NEED to be in NATO.
So yeah, the "But this was never Putin's goal" rings pretty hollow.
B/B
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Ofc, but Russia doesn't get a veto over who joins NATO. If Putin's goal was for no more NATO expansion then he has failed miserably. He managed to frighten both Sweden and Finland right into NATO's arms.
B/B
Im in danger of repeating myself: the level of death&destruction currently applied by Russia to persuade Ukraine not to join NATO suggests otherwise.
Putin's goals were never about finland/sweden, he just didn't want Ukraine in NATO , seeing as that would amount to a HUGE border with NATO-allied country all of the sudden.
I think B/B's confusing himself with NATO expansion. It's not the member count that bothers Russia, it's the geography. Pretty simple stuff unless you really try hard to justify the provocation.
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"It is the acme of professionalism to use Ukraine to fight Russia because that takes a strategic adversary off the table, without using any US troops. We can then focus on our primary adversary which is China at this time"
https://www.tiktok.com/@itallstartswithin/video/7357380310775926021?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7331901362584995361
At least they're now admitting that this is a staged proxy war. The US is obsessed with waging war around the world as part of it strategy and its completely unacceptable.
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seeing as that would amount to a HUGE border with NATO-allied country all of the sudden.
Maps are good things especially if one can read them.
The Russian land border with Finland is about 1,300 kilometers long. The Russian Ukraine border is about 1,900 kilometers long.
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I think B/B's confusing himself with NATO expansion. It's not the member count that bothers Russia, it's the geography. Pretty simple stuff unless you really try hard to justify the provocation.
B/B is far from confused. Putin made a critical, pivotal error. Russia got away with annexing Crimea and some of the eastern lands, but he overstepped, united and expanded NATO and now he's forging a much stronger national identity in Ukraine that is never going to forget that what he did to them.
B/B
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Ukrainian Generals are saying they will lose now, and is even being written in western media now of how a loss will look like in terms of land borders :coffeeread:
Something us that live very close have known since the failed summer push last year that did not happen :whist11: Just a matter of time
I wonder how history in the Future will write about that. :eeekk:
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seeing as that would amount to a HUGE border with NATO-allied country all of the sudden.
Maps are good things especially if one can read them.
The Russian land border with Finland is about 1,300 kilometers long.
If they give up the "top" with murmansk in it (fat chance) they will have to defend only 400km... whereas the border with Ukraine will never get shorter.
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B/B is far from confused. Putin made a critical, pivotal error. Russia got away with annexing Crimea and some of the eastern lands, but he overstepped, united and expanded NATO and now he's forging a much stronger national identity in Ukraine that is never going to forget that what he did to them.
B/B
... and the West gained much insight into the RU military's actual capabilities and weaknesses, along with learning what works and what doesn't against its forces. It also received a heads-up that arms manufacturing capabilities must be beefed up. New military arms programs as well.
https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/uas/2023/07/31/us-army-developing-lasso-tank-killing-drone-for-infantry/
https://thedebrief.org/darpas-new-rema-program-is-turning-ordinary-drones-into-autonomous-killing-machines-kind-of/
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Putin's goals were never about finland/sweden, he just didn't want Ukraine in NATO , seeing as that would amount to a HUGE border with NATO-allied country all of the sudden.
Lets talk about what we all know to be true.
Ukraine isn't ever joining NATO AND
Putin didn't want Finland or Sweden to join NATO either AND
Putin didn't arrange the Moscow Crocus Concert hall shooting/bombing
AND
The USA didn't participate either.
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Ukraine aid bill passes house. Now to senate. If not amended, then to Bidden. It will provide Ukraine limited amount of ammo and weapons. Likely enough to stop Russian advances but not enough to start any new offenses.
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Ukraine aid bill passes house. Now to senate. If not amended, then to Bidden. It will provide Ukraine limited amount of ammo and weapons. Likely enough to stop Russian advances but not enough to start any new offenses.
More dead people without any real chance of winning this war.
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Ok, this is rather funny.
The USA finally approved the 60 Billion dollar aid package and zelensky reacted to that.
Zelenskiy assures Ukrainians of victory with US aid in the balance (http://"https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-assures-ukrainians-victory-with-us-aid-balance-2023-12-06")
Kiev, Dec 6 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy told Ukrainians on Wednesday that Kiev would defeat Russia and win a fair peace "against all odds" as the future of vital U.S. military and financial aid hung in the balance.
The man truly is delusional AND even better:
https://www.telegraaf.nl (http://"https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/905446140/live-zelenski-na-goedkeuring-steun-vs-kans-op-overwinning")
Washington staat achter Kiev en Oekraïne zal niet "een tweede Afghanistan" worden, aldus de president.
Ummm, didn't you realize mr. Prez, that Russia LOST in Afghanistan? So you'd better hope you WILL be a second one.
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Ukraine aid bill passes house. Now to senate. If not amended, then to Bidden. It will provide Ukraine limited amount of ammo and weapons. Likely enough to stop Russian advances but not enough to start any new offenses.
More dead people without any real chance of winning this war.
It is like Afghanistan. One day Russia will figure out there is no real reason for the war and go home. Likely going to take a few more years as we are not close to being there yet.
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It is like Afghanistan. One day Russia will figure out there is no real reason for the war and go home. Likely going to take a few more years as we are not close to being there yet.
Thats not happening. Russia does not want Ukraine in NATO. As long as they don't agree on this point, the war will continue.
(Ukraine in a pro-western EU setting was not a problem , for the confused membership. Russia simply said if you deal with the EU, you can no longer get any discounts from Russia. Which in turn led to the removal of Yanu whom saw the EU then in a worse light then continuing with Russia.)
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Crazy. Just crazy…
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Crazy. Just crazy…
It is just absolute madness and many people continue to be poorly informed (which they shouldn't be given all the access they have at their finger tips), they're disconnected or they're a shill. The government smokescreen along with a compliant media, have done an amazing job hoodwinking much of the western public, in order to get the green light for this complete mess.
I cant believe it's 2024 and some people still focus their emotions and rage at Putin rather than our own leaders. They'll continue to bark up the wrong tree, waving their Ukrainian flags irrespective of how they're educated and informed.
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It is like Afghanistan. One day Russia will figure out there is no real reason for the war and go home. Likely going to take a few more years as we are not close to being there yet.
That's completely fanciful and unrealistic but a predictable statement from someone who doesn't know what's really going on around them.
Russia have been fighting for over two years now, at great cost and have fairly solid control over the vast majority of the ethnic Russian regions in the East and Crimea. They continue to make up ground on a daily basis and I suspect they'll stop when they have full control over these oblasts. The new US funding isn't enough for Ukraine to win but merely drags out the death and destruction for a little longer.
Russia can't and wont go home but they don't want to occupy the whole country. Yes some people like you think Putin will roll onto the next country if we give him Ukraine but that's just one of the strap lines used by the pro war Western leaders, to keep the poorly educated and simpletons in line.
As Mark also pointed out, Russia cant and wont let Ukraine join NATO because they see this as a direct threat to their existence. They can join the EU and become our burden but having US troops parked up in ethnic Russian Ukrainian soil will never happen.
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It is like Afghanistan. One day Russia will figure out there is no real reason for the war and go home. Likely going to take a few more years as we are not close to being there yet.
Thats not happening. Russia does not want Ukraine in NATO. As long as they don't agree on this point, the war will continue.
(Ukraine in a pro-western EU setting was not a problem , for the confused membership. Russia simply said if you deal with the EU, you can no longer get any discounts from Russia. Which in turn led to the removal of Yanu whom saw the EU then in a worse light then continuing with Russia.)
You sure get a lot of what happened with Yama wrong. The trouble now is Russia had a chance to keep Ukraine out of Nato but those days are over. Now no peace treaty unless Ukraine is part of Nato. So, the war goes on. Ukraine being part of Nato will not do anything to Russia. It is only a defensive pack which a member country has to be attacked for a joint response. What this does stop Russia's future expansion plans. Gee Finland is a bigger problem to Russian security than Ukraine but Russia still survived. It is just no one wants to invade Russia it is only Russia that want to invade other countries. Even Russian TV often saids what country should be after Ukraine.
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Ukraine being part of Nato will not do anything to Russia. It is only a defensive pack which a member country has to be attacked for a joint response.
Tell that to Yugoslavia. It ceased to exist WITHOUT attacking any NATO country. Putin specificly remarked that he began to see NATO as an agressive military block when he witnessed that event.
Never mind that Kosovo was a good enough reason to want to do so, they should have first attained the UN's permission and they didn't. It is also still a huge trauma for the Netherlands, because of sbrenica.
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The trouble now is Russia had a chance to keep Ukraine out of Nato but those days are over.
Can you remind me about this one?
Now no peace treaty unless Ukraine is part of Nato. So, the war goes on.
Highly unlikely.
Ukraine has been given more kit to keep the war going, there's more money to wash and the military industrial complex helps keep the US economy afloat for now....but Ukraine will never defeat Russia and push them out of Crimea or the East. I cant see endless billons being pumped into Ukraine from the West forever but Russia will dig in and protect what they have, if they're unable to move the front lines West.
If Ukraine joins NATO, it'll be when they've lost half their land and a buffer zone for Russia is in place. Call it stalemate and the start of a very long polarised cold war between the West and BRICS members. I still think Russia will slog it out until the US pull the rug and runs home like they did in Afghanistan.
Ukraine being part of Nato will not do anything to Russia. It is only a defensive pack which a member country has to be attacked for a joint response.
Absolute rubbish. If Ukraine were to join NATO, US troops would be swarming about the Russian border looking to provoke a response, as they do in every other NATO member state.
What this does stop Russia's future expansion plans. It is just no one wants to invade Russia it is only Russia that want to invade other countries.
:pointlaugh: :pointlaugh: :pointlaugh:
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Texan, please remind us of which countries NATO has invaded. Just to confirm that we both understand what you have written.
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Please wake up to the number of countries Russia has invaded before Ukraine. It is a long list.
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Please wake up to the number of countries Russia has invaded before Ukraine. It is a long list.
Now do the US.
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Texan77, you're the expert, why not give us the list. I am curious about what history like in your parallel universe.
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Please wake up to the number of countries Russia has invaded before Ukraine. It is a long list.
Now do the US.
Now do the UK. :chuckle:
The most common non-religious holiday in the world is Independence (from the UK) Day, which is celebrated, on average, about every 5.5 days.
Back to Russia, in that neighborhood, they have invaded Czech, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary ('56), Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, Georgia, and Kazakstan. They committed genocide in Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
It is little wonder that most of the former Warsaw Pact nations RAN into NATO's arms, and why Ukraine wants in (along with, now Sweden and Finland). Russia has a long and bloody history in E. Europe, including in Ukraine, and no sensible person can fail to understand why Ukraine wants in NATO.
B/B
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Please wake up to the number of countries Russia has invaded before Ukraine. It is a long list.
Now do the US.
Now do the UK. :chuckle:
The most common non-religious holiday in the world is Independence (from the UK) Day, which is celebrated, on average, about every 5.5 days.
Back to Russia, in that neighborhood, they have invaded Czech, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary ('56), Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, Georgia, and Kazakstan. They committed genocide in Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
It is little wonder that most of the former Warsaw Pact nations RAN into NATO's arms, and why Ukraine wants in (along with, now Sweden and Finland). Russia has a long and bloody history in E. Europe, including in Ukraine, and no sensible person can fail to understand why Ukraine wants in NATO.
B/B
There is also Russian invasions in Georgia, Dagestan and Moldova. What do they have in common? I will let the Putinistas guess.
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For context given the discussion, it would be useful to look at who fought who following the creation of NATO in 1949.
Russia -
Under the Soviet Union
Hungarian Revolution of 1956
Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, 1968
Soviet–Afghan War, 1979–1989
Under the Russian Federation
First Chechen War, 1994–1997
Second Chechen War, 1999–2000
Russo-Georgian War, 2008
Russo-Ukrainian War, 2014–present
Russian invasion of Ukraine, 2022–present
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion
And here's a documented article regarding Uncle Sam from 2019 and there are multiple sub categories.
United States of America -
Conflicts
1946 Trieste
1947-1949 Greece
1948-1949 Berlin, Germany
1950 Formosa (Taiwan)
1950-1953 Korea
1953-1954 Formosa (Taiwan)
1955-1975 Vietnam
1956 Egypt
1958 Lebanon
1962 Cuba
1962 Thailand
1962-1975 Laos
1964 Congo (Zaire)
1965 Dominican Republic
1965-1973 Cambodia
1967 Congo (Zaire)
1976 Korea
1978 Congo (Zaire)
1980 Iran
1981 El Salvador
1981 Libya
1981-1989 Nicaragua
1982-1983 Egypt
1982-1983 Lebanon
1983 Chad
1983 Grenada
1986 Bolivia
1986 Libya
1987-1988 Iran
1988 Panama
1989 Bolivia
1989 Colombia
1989 Libya
1989 Peru
1989 Philippines
1989-1990 Panama
1990 Saudi Arabia
1991 Congo (Zaire)
1991-1992 Kuwait
1991-1993 Iraq
1992-1994 Somalia
1993-1994 Macedonia
1993-1996 Haiti
1993-2005 Bosnia
1995 Serbia
1996 Liberia
1996 Rwanda
1997-2003 Iraq
1998 Afghanistan
1998 Sudan
1999-2000 Kosovo
1999-2000 Montenegro
1999-2000 Serbia
2000 Yemen
2000-2002 East Timor
2000-2016 Colombia
2001 – Afghanistan
2001- Pakistan
2001-Somalia
2002-2015 Philippines
2002-Yemen
2003-2011 Iraq
2004 Haiti
c2004-Kenya
2011 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2011-2017 Uganda
2011- Libya
c2012- Central African Republic
c2012- Mali
c2013-2016 South Sudan
c2013- Burkina Faso
c2013- Chad
c2013- Mauritania
c2013- Niger
c2013- Nigeria
2014 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2014- Iraq
2014- Syria
2015 Democratic Republic of the Congo
c2015- Cameroon
2016 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2017- Saudi Arabia
c2017 Tunisia
2019- Philippines
Leaders they've tried to assassinate
1949 – Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader
1950s – CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany to be “put out of the way” in the event of a Soviet invasion
1950s – Chou En-lai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life
1950s, 1962 – Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1951 – Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea
1953 – Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran
1950s (mid) – Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader
1955 – Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
1957 – Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
1959, 1963, 1969 – Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
1960 – Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1950s-70s – José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life
1961 – Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 – Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire)
1961 – Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 – Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s-70s – Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life
1960s – Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba
1965 – Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader
1965-6 – Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 – Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970 – Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 – Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
1970s, 1981 – General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 – General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 – Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 – Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-1986 – Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life
1982 – Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran
1983 – Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander
1983 – Miguel d’Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 – The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate
1985 – Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader (80 people killed in the attempt)
1991 – Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1993 – Mohamed Farah Aideed, prominent clan leader of Somalia
1998, 2001-2 – Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant
1999 – Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia
2002 – Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Afghan Islamic leader and warlord
2003 – Saddam Hussein and his two sons
2011 – Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya
Governments they've tried to overthrow
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
[arguably, Syria 1949 needs to be added to this list. –DS]
https://davidswanson.org/warlist/
But yea, Russia and Vladimir Putin is a threat to global security!! :pointlaugh:
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Post of the week that, Rosco. :bow:
BB and Tex will be back in a minute saying "but, but, but Russia". :chuckle:
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It looks like D. Swanson forgot to list Scotland, (the United States wanted the haggis.) Also overlooked is Kick ‘‘em Jenny.
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Post of the week that, Rosco. :bow:
BB and Tex will be back in a minute saying "but, but, but Russia". :chuckle:
Also from rosco's page:
One final list.
Here is a complete list of those actions compiled from all the lists above that have been successful and made the world a better place:
No i did not forget to quote the list. Its empty.
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Post of the week that, Rosco. :bow:
BB and Tex will be back in a minute saying "but, but, but Russia". :chuckle:
Yea that long and bloody list BB talks about, isn't quite so long when compared with uncle Sam's away games..... :chuckle:
It's pretty bloody obvious why those countries who aren't already kept at heel by the US, are prepared to fight hard to keep their independence. Europes become the yankees lackey and we'll always be getting pulled into the mess unless we manage to break free. BRICS members see this exactly for what it is.
Until then, we'll be reminded that without the US, Russia will be invading us and Putler will eat our newborn.......whilst being forced to buy expensive energy and submit to US hegemony :prophead:
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It looks like D. Swanson forgot to list Scotland, (the United States wanted the haggis.) Also overlooked is Kick ‘‘em Jenny.
Everyone's a secret haggis muncher!! :evilgrin0002:
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For context given the discussion, it would be useful to look at who fought who following the creation of NATO in 1949.
Russia -
Under the Soviet Union
Hungarian Revolution of 1956
Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia, 1968
Soviet–Afghan War, 1979–1989
Under the Russian Federation
First Chechen War, 1994–1997
Second Chechen War, 1999–2000
Russo-Georgian War, 2008
Russo-Ukrainian War, 2014–present
Russian invasion of Ukraine, 2022–present
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion
And here's a documented article regarding Uncle Sam from 2019 and there are multiple sub categories.
United States of America -
Conflicts
1946 Trieste
1947-1949 Greece
1948-1949 Berlin, Germany
1950 Formosa (Taiwan)
1950-1953 Korea
1953-1954 Formosa (Taiwan)
1955-1975 Vietnam
1956 Egypt
1958 Lebanon
1962 Cuba
1962 Thailand
1962-1975 Laos
1964 Congo (Zaire)
1965 Dominican Republic
1965-1973 Cambodia
1967 Congo (Zaire)
1976 Korea
1978 Congo (Zaire)
1980 Iran
1981 El Salvador
1981 Libya
1981-1989 Nicaragua
1982-1983 Egypt
1982-1983 Lebanon
1983 Chad
1983 Grenada
1986 Bolivia
1986 Libya
1987-1988 Iran
1988 Panama
1989 Bolivia
1989 Colombia
1989 Libya
1989 Peru
1989 Philippines
1989-1990 Panama
1990 Saudi Arabia
1991 Congo (Zaire)
1991-1992 Kuwait
1991-1993 Iraq
1992-1994 Somalia
1993-1994 Macedonia
1993-1996 Haiti
1993-2005 Bosnia
1995 Serbia
1996 Liberia
1996 Rwanda
1997-2003 Iraq
1998 Afghanistan
1998 Sudan
1999-2000 Kosovo
1999-2000 Montenegro
1999-2000 Serbia
2000 Yemen
2000-2002 East Timor
2000-2016 Colombia
2001 – Afghanistan
2001- Pakistan
2001-Somalia
2002-2015 Philippines
2002-Yemen
2003-2011 Iraq
2004 Haiti
c2004-Kenya
2011 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2011-2017 Uganda
2011- Libya
c2012- Central African Republic
c2012- Mali
c2013-2016 South Sudan
c2013- Burkina Faso
c2013- Chad
c2013- Mauritania
c2013- Niger
c2013- Nigeria
2014 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2014- Iraq
2014- Syria
2015 Democratic Republic of the Congo
c2015- Cameroon
2016 Democratic Republic of the Congo
2017- Saudi Arabia
c2017 Tunisia
2019- Philippines
Leaders they've tried to assassinate
1949 – Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader
1950s – CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany to be “put out of the way” in the event of a Soviet invasion
1950s – Chou En-lai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life
1950s, 1962 – Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1951 – Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea
1953 – Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran
1950s (mid) – Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader
1955 – Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
1957 – Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
1959, 1963, 1969 – Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
1960 – Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1950s-70s – José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life
1961 – Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 – Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire)
1961 – Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 – Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s-70s – Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life
1960s – Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba
1965 – Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader
1965-6 – Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 – Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970 – Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 – Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
1970s, 1981 – General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 – General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 – Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 – Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-1986 – Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life
1982 – Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran
1983 – Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander
1983 – Miguel d’Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 – The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate
1985 – Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader (80 people killed in the attempt)
1991 – Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1993 – Mohamed Farah Aideed, prominent clan leader of Somalia
1998, 2001-2 – Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant
1999 – Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia
2002 – Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Afghan Islamic leader and warlord
2003 – Saddam Hussein and his two sons
2011 – Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya
Governments they've tried to overthrow
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
[arguably, Syria 1949 needs to be added to this list. –DS]
https://davidswanson.org/warlist/
But yea, Russia and Vladimir Putin is a threat to global security!! :pointlaugh:
Russia over ran and controlled 44 nations to form the USSR. No oner country compares to this feat and it the reason Nato was formed.
Your list is a bunch of crap fake news.
Meanwhile look at Russia standability of the war. Those who think Ukraine has no change to possibly win.
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Post of the week that, Rosco. :bow:
BB and Tex will be back in a minute saying "but, but, but Russia". :chuckle:
Lulz. That's sort of the POINT. You and Rosco want to talk about EVERYTHING BUT Russia.
"But...but...AMERICA IS MEAN!!!"
Srsly Rosco, did you even read your own list? Like the Berlin Airlift was somehow bad? :chuckle:
B/B: "You know Russia shouldn't be genociding Urkainians..."
Rosco: "OMG! HOW DARE AMERICA PREVENT RUSSIA FROM STARVING WEST BERLIN?!?!?!"
Go have a lie down, old boy, and stop hyperventilating. And enough with the Whataboutism. There are 12 - TWELVE - nations in the world that the UK hasn't invaded/fought a war with.
We learned from the best. :chuckle:
But let's return to the topic at hand: the Russo-Ukrainian War...that is, after all the title of the thread is about. Anything to say about that, or is your tongue still stuck up Putin's bum?
B/B
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Russia over ran and controlled 44 nations to form the USSR. No oner country compares to this feat and it the reason Nato was formed.
Your list is a bunch of crap fake news.
Meanwhile look at Russia standability of the war. Those who think Ukraine has no change to possibly win.
You're a lost old soul aren't you? Do you still think Putin killed Navalny even though your own intelligence agencies have now said otherwise?
I suggest you read up about how the USSR formed. Hint - it wasn't by carpet bombing and murdering civilians in order to get them to sign up and there was 15 republics at its height, not 44.
You say no other country compares to Russia......have you heard about Great Britain and the Mongols?? :prophead:
And predictably, facts are dismissed as fake news because those facts threaten the existence of the parallel universe you appear to mouth breath in.
:'(
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And predictably, facts are dismissed as fake news because those facts threaten the existence of the parallel universe you appear to mouth breathe in.
Odd I have wondered if one put BC and Rosco in front a drip painting by J. Pollack you two would discuss the beauty. The discussions would be is it depicting a sunset or springtime landscape. Another analogy would be the creature quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and swims like a duck and you maintain it is a cat.
Perhaps B.B. would wonder how long it took to create the painting and I would wonder could the canvas set a new record at auction.
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And predictably, facts are dismissed as fake news because those facts threaten the existence of the parallel universe you appear to mouth breathe in.
Odd I have wondered if one put BC and Rosco in front a drip painting by J. Pollack you two would discuss the beauty. The discussions would be is it depicting a sunset or springtime landscape. Another analogy would be the creature quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and swims like a duck and you maintain it is a cat.
Perhaps B.B. would wonder how long it took to create the painting and I would wonder could the canvas set a new record at auction.
Nurse.....you're missing a patient. :HOSPITAL:
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And predictably, facts are dismissed as fake news because those facts threaten the existence of the parallel universe you appear to mouth breathe in.
Odd I have wondered if one put BC and Rosco in front a drip painting by J. Pollack you two would discuss the beauty. The discussions would be is it depicting a sunset or springtime landscape. Another analogy would be the creature quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and swims like a duck and you maintain it is a cat.
Perhaps B.B. would wonder how long it took to create the painting and I would wonder could the canvas set a new record at auction.
Nurse.....you're missing a patient. :HOSPITAL:
Feel free to inhabit any place in your fantasy world, I will hang with the realists. In the meantime try to find a ride to the clinic so they can control your meds.
Hopefully the nurse is cuter than the sheep.
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But let's return to the topic at hand: the Russo-Ukrainian War...that is, after all the title of the thread is about. Anything to say about that, or is your tongue still stuck up Putin's bum?
B/B
Demonstrably not a war, why Kiev is untouched and Zelensky still in place. More of a Special Military Operation. Or as a chap I know said, "Tis but a border scuffle".
Kiev is now sending busloads of women to the front according to some videos I saw on X over the weekend. What a shame for them, it'll be a one-way ticket for many of them.
But as long as the US war machine can keep rolling down the tracks, right BB?
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Russia lost the battle of Kiev and numerous assassinations attempts on Zelensky have so far failed. Russia may not be losing the war, but they are not winning it neither. In a couple of weeks Russian gains will come to a halt as Ukraine forces receive more ammo and supplies. Then the war will likely continue with small gains and loses territory over the next year.
The French will be sending its first troops to Ukraine soon. They will not be on the front lines. About 2000 of them I read. Numerous other European nations seem to be sending personnel to learn modern war tactics. One has to wonder if maybe around 2026 if Russia maybe really fighting Nato?
What the war has done it has created the condition that life as it was before the war cannot return. Nato countries are beginning to see that Europe as it is today will not work with a Russian controlled Ukraine. On the other hand, Russia as it is today will not exist with a lost in Ukraine. I know it is hard to picture but the world has fundamentally changed. Neither side can give in and a compromise does not seem to be on the horizon that would change this.
Rosco for once you may be right. As the future war shapes up Iran appear to be joining Russia in its fight against the west. But before you place Iran as so innocent know they are at war with just about everyone including Afghanistan.
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Russia lost the battle of Kiev and numerous assassinations attempts on Zelensky have so far failed. Russia may not be losing the war, but they are not winning it neither. In a couple of weeks Russian gains will come to a halt as Ukraine forces receive more ammo and supplies. Then the war will likely continue with small gains and loses territory over the next year.
The French will be sending its first troops to Ukraine soon. They will not be on the front lines. About 2000 of them I read. Numerous other European nations seem to be sending personnel to learn modern war tactics. One has to wonder if maybe around 2026 if Russia maybe really fighting Nato?
What the war has done it has created the condition that life as it was before the war cannot return. Nato countries are beginning to see that Europe as it is today will not work with a Russian controlled Ukraine. On the other hand, Russia as it is today will not exist with a lost in Ukraine. I know it is hard to picture but the world has fundamentally changed. Neither side can give in and a compromise does not seem to be on the horizon that would change this.
Rosco for once you may be right. As the future war shapes up Iran appear to be joining Russia in its fight against the west. But before you place Iran as so innocent know they are at war with just about everyone including Afghanistan.
You are still alive.......spreading bullshit propaganda around....... or you visit to see the women 's assets on the right of the screen?
I guess you must have plenty of free time or you are alone and occupy this site to earn your usual income.
Take a read to this. USA is bust.......
as you have plenty of free time.... read this happy end of usa.
https://substack.com/redirect/67d70868-a13a-4e83-b58d-30fab5bfd25f?j=eyJ1IjoiMThiMDg4In0.uY28Fe0XkWbznFdEkO8DAz2aIlWdA2xW22fW85rP_WA
Taxing Unrealized Gains Would Obliterate The U.S. Economy
https://quoththeraven.substack.com/p/1-trillion-per-100-days-is-this-the?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
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Russia lost the battle of Kiev and numerous assassinations attempts on Zelensky have so far failed.
If Russia wanted the whole of Ukraine, Kiev and other key cities would be flattened to rubble and the country as we know it would cease to exist. Just consider what the US does during their invasions. Russia clearly doesn't want that and we can see that life almost carries on as normal, away from the front lines. Only military targets are being hit behind the front lines and its the east of the country that'll do for now.
In a couple of weeks Russian gains will come to a halt as Ukraine forces receive more ammo and supplies.
It will certainly help Ukraine in their fight but they need people to actually use the weapons first. Ukrainians are being slaughtered, many men are hiding in Europe and we can see videos all over the internet, where unwilling men are being jumped and kidnapped by the military. Women are now on the way so let's face it, the quality of solider is diminishing.
Mercenaries being paid by the West are helping to plug gaps but many of them are now dead or returning home after seeing what life is like on the front lines. Russia will wear down the resolve and without people to fight, Ukraine will fold.
Expect large gains for Russia during a summer offensive. Soldiers have been training for over a year now and the flow of new weapons along with updated tactics will overrun a weakened Ukrainian army. The latest $60 billion will just slow them down a bit.
The French will be sending its first troops to Ukraine soon. They will not be on the front lines. About 2000 of them I read. Numerous other European nations seem to be sending personnel to learn modern war tactics. One has to wonder if maybe around 2026 if Russia maybe really fighting Nato?
That's simply not true Tex. I've read all sorts of things and I do believe that there are some NATO employees in Ukraine orchestrating events, telling Ukraine what to do, organising logistics and most importantly keeping an eye on all the corrupt thieves in the Ukrainian leadership but any NATO soldiers directly being involved would change things for the worse....big time. 2,000 French soldiers wont make the slightest bit of difference but you can guarantee Russia will put a massive target on their backs if they put boots on the ground.
Russia will be targeting all this new equipment being delivered as soon at it reaches Ukraine and the same goes for anyone who shouldn't be working in country. Many Ukrainians work for Russian intelligence so keeping secrets is almost impossible.
Nato countries are beginning to see that Europe as it is today will not work with a Russian controlled Ukraine.
As it is today sure but I guarantee you that as soon as Russia have taken what they need and when the west decides to abandon Ukraine, the threat will be off the table and measures put in place to neutralise the country.
Europe will go back to trading with Russia and life will get better for everyone. Ideally the US war hawks get bored or die soon, so the world can enter a more peaceful phase.
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Expect large gains for Russia during a summer offensive. Soldiers have been training for over a year now and the flow of new weapons along with updated tactics will overrun a weakened Ukrainian army. The latest $60 billion will just slow them down a bit.
Uncle Sam claims (https://www.voanews.com/a/voa-interview-us-says-nkorea-shipped-10-000-containers-of-munitions-to-russia/7533342.html) that North Korea has supplied Russia with 10,000 containers full of weapons. Looking at the source, it may well be made up of course.
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Russia lost the battle of Kiev and numerous assassinations attempts on Zelensky have so far failed. Russia may not be losing the war, but they are not winning it neither. In a couple of weeks Russian gains will come to a halt as Ukraine forces receive more ammo and supplies. Then the war will likely continue with small gains and loses territory over the next year.
The French will be sending its first troops to Ukraine soon. They will not be on the front lines. About 2000 of them I read. Numerous other European nations seem to be sending personnel to learn modern war tactics. One has to wonder if maybe around 2026 if Russia maybe really fighting Nato?
What the war has done it has created the condition that life as it was before the war cannot return. Nato countries are beginning to see that Europe as it is today will not work with a Russian controlled Ukraine. On the other hand, Russia as it is today will not exist with a lost in Ukraine. I know it is hard to picture but the world has fundamentally changed. Neither side can give in and a compromise does not seem to be on the horizon that would change this.
Rosco for once you may be right. As the future war shapes up Iran appear to be joining Russia in its fight against the west. But before you place Iran as so innocent know they are at war with just about everyone including Afghanistan.
Tex is closer to the truth than many others. Early in the war Russia attempted to capture Київ, its forces were unsuccessful. The invaders retreated from Sumy and the outskirts of Харків, destroying by some accounts 1/3 of each city. They never reached Nikolayev and retreated from Kherson. So much for the fiction of only attacking infrastructure and winning.
Russia though has managed by both physical warfare and cyber warfare, or outright porkies as Wiz calls them made Europe realize the menace that is the powers to be that inhabit the Kremlin. And as I have noted before Putin has created for himself the perfect mouse trap. BRAVO! .
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Tex is closer to the truth than many others. Early in the war Russia attempted to capture Kiev, its forces were unsuccessful.
That isn't true. They withdrew voluntarily from Kiev to further the pending peace agreement that Zelensky then reneged upon.
Russian President Vladimir Putin stated in an interview with American journalist Tucker Carlson that negotiations with Ukraine in 2022 were nearly finalized. However, after Russian troops withdrew from Kiev, the Ukrainian side disregarded all agreements and Zelensky went as far as prohibiting negotiations with Russia through a legislative decree.
Source (https://sputnikglobe.com/20240428/ukraine-rejected-2022-peace-deal-over-russian-language-status--banning-nazism-terms---welt-1118153431.html) -- More details (https://www.rt.com/russia/596659-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-2022/)
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Tex is closer to the truth than many others. Early in the war Russia attempted to capture Kiev, its forces were unsuccessful.
That isn't true. They withdrew voluntarily from Kiev to further the pending peace agreement that Zelensky then reneged upon.
Russian President Vladimir Putin stated in an interview with American journalist Tucker Carlson that negotiations with Ukraine in 2022 were nearly finalized. However, after Russian troops withdrew from Kiev, the Ukrainian side disregarded all agreements and Zelensky went as far as prohibiting negotiations with Russia through a legislative decree.
Source (https://sputnikglobe.com/20240428/ukraine-rejected-2022-peace-deal-over-russian-language-status--banning-nazism-terms---welt-1118153431.html) -- More details (https://www.rt.com/russia/596659-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-2022/)
Tex and Av are still very much blinkered when it comes to the conflict. They've been programmed or simply cant accept reality because it hurts their feelings. Even Ukraine have admitted that Boris arrived and torpedo'd the peace agreement, so the US could get their war with Russia.
Russia pulled away from the capital showing good will and seriousness towards an agreement. The pro Ukraine mob kid themselves on and pretend Russia run way and that they couldn't turn Kiev into ruble even if Putin wanted to.
:prophead:
"Russia was ready to end the war and withdraw its troops in exchange for Ukrainian neutrality just a few months after the invasion began and was refused partly because of ex-British PM Boris Johnson, who pressured Kiev into continuing the fight, David Arahamiya, the leader of Ukraine’s ruling party confirmed in a recent interview, published on Friday, November 24th"
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-johnson-forced-Kiev-to-refuse-russian-peace-deal/
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This is just one of many internal problems in Russia where groups in Russia do not feel any love for Russia and want to be independent.
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“There’s NOTHING Left!” 600,000 Ukrainians DEAD! | Colonel Douglas Macgregor On The Ukraine War
Mon, April 29, 2024, 2:55 PM GMT+1
Today is my conversation with U.S. Army Colonel Retired Combat Veteran & CEO of OurCountryOurChoice.com, Colonel Douglas Macgregor. In this conversation, we discussed the escalating threat of World War III and ongoing conflicts worldwide. Additionally, we explored the sentiments of American veterans regarding the war machine and whether Americans are becoming more aware of the workings of the military-industrial complex.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nothing-left-600-000-ukrainians-135559135.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADidPEyiioMKifrnCILaxT2OPumdpI80WbeyjpP8w39TUdVZCP_fC51Qi9IlxGs3PX-AYo6fBKAPnAd9N9FjkzBXEIINiUwyIn4genLlgPeqHDjzvPMN1FyxQDTqeZiIh88hHtETk6jelhmaeDbnWfa1EXRZZ6iQ7R1_bYeZlcx3
Texan.... enjoy listening his comments........and he is American......... tiphat
Can you please remind me if it was true That Texan people wanted to become independent some time ago??????
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This is just one of many internal problems in Russia where groups in Russia do not feel any love for Russia and want to be independent.
What's this guff, got to do with Ukrainian losses?
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Tex is closer to the truth than many others. Early in the war Russia attempted to capture Kiev, its forces were unsuccessful.
That isn't true. They withdrew voluntarily from Kiev to further the pending peace agreement that Zelensky then reneged upon.
This is akin to stating the Nazi’s withdrew from Berlin in the closing days of World War2. Putin did not expect the Ukraine resistance and the West’s support of Zelensky.
As I learned 3P = Piss Poor Putin.
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Demonstrably not a war, why Kiev is untouched and Zelensky still in place. More of a Special Military Operation. Or as a chap I know said, "Tis but a border scuffle".
Yes yes, and Korea was a "police action" etc.
Russia has several times tried to assassinate Ze, and failed. If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly. But alas, they have failed.
Kiev is now sending busloads of women to the front according to some videos I saw on X over the weekend. What a shame for them, it'll be a one-way ticket for many of them.
Hmm...I wonder if they are recruiting female convicts?
Oh, wait, that's Russia (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/03/13/russia-turns-to-womens-prisons-for-fresh-recruits-reports-a80470).
But as long as the US war machine can keep rolling down the tracks, right BB?
Oh, 100%...that's why the USA invaded Crim...oh, wait. I mean that's why the USA invaded the Donba...oh, wait.
Never mind. :chuckle:
B/B
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Russia has several times tried to assassinate Ze, and failed.
Untrue. They even published recently drone footage of him somewhere. If they wanted him dead, he's be dead.
If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly. But alas, they have failed.
They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.
Hmm...I wonder if they are recruiting female convicts?
Oh, wait, that's Russia (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/03/13/russia-turns-to-womens-prisons-for-fresh-recruits-reports-a80470).
Makes good sense to use convicts if you ask me.
Oh, 100%...that's why the USA invaded Crim...oh, wait. I mean that's why the USA invaded the Donba...oh, wait.
Never mind. :chuckle:
The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.
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The fixation about an alleged failure of capturing Kiev on the onset is entertaining. With 150,000 troops in a city proper with a population in excess of 3 million?
The US fwiw knows full well the fallacy of that military strategy invading Iraq and trying to capture Baghdad with a coalition of 160,000 troops.
It took Nazi Germany over a million troops to invade and take over the western half of Poland. And it bombed the crap out of the country before marching in.
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The fixation about an alleged failure of capturing Kiev on the onset is entertaining. With 150,000 troops in a city proper with a population in excess of 3 million?
The US fwiw knows full well the fallacy of that military strategy invading Iraq and trying to capture Baghdad with a coalition of 160,000 troops.
It took Nazi Germany over a million troops to invade and take over the western half of Poland. And it bombed the crap out of the country before marching in.
The highest number of troops that Ukraine had were 30,000 (I have read estimates that were far lower) plus approximately 15,000 to 25,000 weapons were distrusted in the region to civilians. Russia had anywhere from 25,000 to 45,000 troops in the region.
What is interesting both sides lost relatively speaking few forces, the Ukraine civilians were not so fortunate.
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Yea that long and bloody list BB talks about, isn't quite so long when compared with uncle Sam's away games..... :chuckle:
It's pretty bloody obvious why those countries who aren't already kept at heel by the US, are prepared to fight hard to keep their independence. Europes become the yankees lackey and we'll always be getting pulled into the mess unless we manage to break free. BRICS members see this exactly for what it is.
Until then, we'll be reminded that without the US, Russia will be invading us and Putler will eat our newborn.......whilst being forced to buy expensive energy and submit to US hegemony :prophead:
Roscoe I find myself agreeing with much of what you state albeit from a different position/viewpoint. You state over and over "the US hegemony , this and that". Yes the US is heavily involved as is England, The City of London, The UN, NATO and all of the western nations including all of Europe. Pulling the puppet strings of those entities are the Central Banks who currently are exhausting Ukraine of everything. As they do with any country with a wealth of natural resources
Ukraine is history. Completely depleted of all resources. Most of all people who at an earlier point in the war had a chance to keep it a sovereign country but was sold out to the West by the comedian. IMHO those same entities end game is to do the same thing to Russia and the only thing standing in their way is Putin.
I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so
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Russia has several times tried to assassinate Ze, and failed.
Untrue. They even published recently drone footage of him somewhere. If they wanted him dead, he's be dead.
To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin (https://web.archive.org/web/20231125164231/https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-assassination-attempts-russia-lost-count-ukraine-2023-11).
If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly. But alas, they have failed.
They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.
So winning the war by cutting off Ukraine's Command & Control isn't the objective? *cough-cough*
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Hmm...I wonder if they are recruiting female convicts?
Oh, wait, that's Russia (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/03/13/russia-turns-to-womens-prisons-for-fresh-recruits-reports-a80470).
Makes good sense to use convicts if you ask me.
So it's one thing if Ukraine does it but another if Russia does it?
Sorry, I just prefer my cocktails and my entendres doubled....
Oh, 100%...that's why the USA invaded Crim...oh, wait. I mean that's why the USA invaded the Donba...oh, wait.
Never mind. :chuckle:
The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.
Yes, yes, the familiar "bUT mUH AmErIcA!!" whinge.
Putin interfered with the Ukrainian election to install his puppet Jankovich. But that's ok for you because it favors Moscow. Sorry Manny, but you cannot have it both ways.
Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"? Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invastions.
B/B
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To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin (https://web.archive.org/web/20231125164231/https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-assassination-attempts-russia-lost-count-ukraine-2023-11).
We can all safely take anything that Zelensky or The Sun has to say, as complete made up nonsense. They're a match made in heaven.....
It's my opinion, that if Russia had wanted him dead, Z would be 6 foot under already. He does a fair bit of travel, makes many public appearances in Ukraine and seems to be less scared for his life these days. Everything in the early days was done in front of the green screen - not so now. Plus Russian intelligence is pretty good, especially in Ukraine where many of the citizens are happy to work for the Russian's.
I feel it's another Navalny story, Putin wants him dead........even though he could if he had wanted.
Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"? Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invastions.
Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, they never got the chance to say what they wanted. Pro Western Zelensky, the puppet, made that decision for them after he had been told what to do.
Simples......
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I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so
I agree that the US are not working on this alone but they are by far, the most powerful and vocal faction, who really wants war with Russia. We have them here too but without US support, they know they couldn't do anything. Plus Russia is the US bogey man and they get the blame for literally everything, rent free in your heads 24/7.
I watched a clip from a US news show earlier this week and some bloke was blaming Russia for the disinformation about high US inflation :ROFL:
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To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin (https://web.archive.org/web/20231125164231/https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-assassination-attempts-russia-lost-count-ukraine-2023-11).
"Zelensky says" :pointlaugh:
If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly. But alas, they have failed.
They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.
So winning the war by cutting off Ukraine's Command & Control isn't the objective? *cough-cough*
I'd suggest not, it seems to be a war of attrition.
The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.
Yes, yes, the familiar "bUT mUH AmErIcA!!" whinge.
Facts are facts.
Putin interfered with the Ukrainian election to install his puppet Jankovich.
That's US propaganda.
Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"? Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invasions.
They will never be in NATO, they know that. The peace deal was torpedoed by Boris Johnson, US citizen, at the behest of Uncle Sam as we all know. Putin explained all of this and the timeline in his Carlson interview.
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I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so
They are the hand that rocks the cradle.
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I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so
I agree that the US are not working on this alone but they are by far, the most powerful and vocal faction, who really wants war with Russia. We have them here too but without US support, they know they couldn't do anything. Plus Russia is the US bogey man and they get the blame for literally everything, rent free in your heads 24/7.
I watched a clip from a US news show earlier this week and some bloke was blaming Russia for the disinformation about high US inflation :ROFL:
I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so
They are the hand that rocks the cradle.
I don't disagree with either of you. I don't know if you both keep referring to the US as the instigator and the culprit because you're lazy and it's convenient or you actually believe it. Yes the US is the strongest and biggest player in the game but, it's just a part of the bigger corruption apparently ya'll don't see. IMO neither of you recognize the root of the problem. You both seem expertly adapt at recognizing the symptoms but not the cause.
The elites, the deep state, the illuminati no matter what you wish to call them, have no limits on boundries of countries. They have built and perceive the world as theirs. They control nearly every aspect of our lives if not them all. It's a club and we ain't in it. They rule every government that matters and rule the world through the central banks. It is all for power and profit and there are few players in the "real game". Destruction, death and suffering is of zero consequence to them. Ukraine is a perfect example.
Rosco the media the world over is nothing but propaganda shaped and built for deception. It's the same in the US as it is in Britian, France and every other corner of the world. It is a lie, unfortunately most of the people in the world are to ignorant and deceived to recognize it.
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I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so
I agree that the US are not working on this alone but they are by far, the most powerful and vocal faction, who really wants war with Russia. We have them here too but without US support, they know they couldn't do anything. Plus Russia is the US bogey man and they get the blame for literally everything, rent free in your heads 24/7.
I watched a clip from a US news show earlier this week and some bloke was blaming Russia for the disinformation about high US inflation :ROFL:
But inflation in China so bad China is like going to have to devaluate.
China's Economic Gambit Could Nuke Putin's Dollar Ploy (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/china-s-economic-gambit-could-nuke-putin-s-dollar-ploy/ar-AA1o4PBN?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ASTS&cvid=484bad8e2e234e94c6e92f437e454641&ei=37).
[Edited by: B/B. Reason: Fix link.]
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To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin (https://web.archive.org/web/20231125164231/https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-assassination-attempts-russia-lost-count-ukraine-2023-11).
We can all safely take anything that Zelensky or The Sun has to say, as complete made up nonsense. They're a match made in heaven.....
This is mere contradiction.
It's my opinion....
Yes your totally unbiased opinion.
:chuckle:
Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"? Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invastions.
Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, they never got the chance to say what they wanted. Pro Western Zelensky, the puppet, made that decision for them after he had been told what to do.
Simples......
I have spent a lot of time in Ukr, including 2-3x since the war started. Believe me, the Ukrainians I know - and met, and actually conversed with - are, to a man (or woman, as the case may be) anti-Putin.
To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin (https://web.archive.org/web/20231125164231/https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-assassination-attempts-russia-lost-count-ukraine-2023-11).
"Zelensky says" :pointlaugh:
As opposed to a "I watched some vidoes on X..."? :chuckle:
If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly. But alas, they have failed.
They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.
So winning the war by cutting off Ukraine's Command & Control isn't the objective? *cough-cough*
I'd suggest not, it seems to be a war of attrition.
Yes, perhaps because of lack of ability to cut off Ukraine's Command & Control and end the war.
The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.
Yes, yes, the familiar "bUT mUH AmErIcA!!" whinge.
Facts are facts.
Oooh, hold that thought!
Putin interfered with the Ukrainian election to install his puppet Jankovich.
That's US propaganda.
Ahem. As a wise friend of mine recently said: "Facts are facts." :chuckle:
Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"? Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invasions.
They will never be in NATO, they know that. The peace deal was torpedoed by Boris Johnson, US citizen, at the behest of Uncle Sam as we all know. Putin explained all of this and the timeline in his Carlson interview.
We shall see. N.B. Boris gave up his US Citizenship when he became PM, IIRC. And yes, "Putin blames others for his invasion of Ukraine."
Well, I guess that settles it. :chuckle:
I do so look forward to the day when you regain your senses, Manny. Until then, in the spirit of good fellowship, I will say that I appreciate your commitment to the free exchange of ideas and opinions. I am not sure you get enough credit for that, particularly these days.
Best,
B/B
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I don't know if you both keep referring to the US as the instigator and the culprit because you're lazy and it's convenient or you actually believe it.
Yes the US is the strongest and biggest player in the game but, it's just a part of the bigger corruption apparently ya'll don't see. IMO neither of you recognize the root of the problem. You both seem expertly adapt at recognizing the symptoms but not the cause.
I don't think either rosco or Manny are lazy, but they can't really argue that Ukraine "forced" Russia to invade it. Doesn't pass the credulity test. So what then? They can't put the blame where it actually lies: on Russia, so what to do?
Try to take the focus off or Russia by blaming America.
That's why their arguments reduce to "Subject, verb, 'bUt mUh AmeRiKa!!!'"
It's what they have.
Ukraine is a perfect example.
You are ignoring Russia's history of genocide in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect example of a people saying "Yes, we have been invaded and genocided by Russia before. Not this time, thanks."
Instead, we get the Putinistas moaning "Poor little Russia! Always the VICTIM!!!" whilst crying crocodile tears.
B/B
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Just for you B/B......
John Mearshimer TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@woken403/video/7361221768645823777?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7362311562059941408)
If you struggle to accept it from myself or Manny, then here's one of your own, summing it up perfectly.
[Edited by: B/B. Reason: Fix link.]
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B.B
Are by the way have become Unemployed or Manny has asked you to help...
Looking the right side of the board, the exembisio of good assets is becoming better every day and very inviting for unmarried pensioners.
You know very well who instigated the Orange revolution as I have previously posted a video by Victoria Nulland and her admission that USA has financed the revolution.
After the latest activities in Palestine it becomes pretty clear who is running USA and the rest of the world... financially etc.
May I remind you that after the war ended in 1948 Germany signed the capitulation peace agreement that GERMANY has been run by USA till 2099 and it is not an independen Nation.
May I remind you who has signed the Misk agreement and today has been ignore it.......
Taking into consideration the latest info coming out USA and Israel.... I can only guess that the USA government is now run completely by the jews.......
May I also remind you
If America has so much power WHY THEY DO NOT STOP THE KILLIGS IN PALESTINE????????
My view is that the Jews are running America.... and have been doing ing it since the end of WWII
HAVE A NICE DAY......
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I don't think either rosco or Manny are lazy, but they can't really argue that Ukraine "forced" Russia to invade it. Doesn't pass the credulity test. So what then? They can't put the blame where it actually lies: on Russia, so what to do?
Try to take the focus off or Russia by blaming America.
That's why their arguments reduce to "Subject, verb, 'bUt mUh AmeRiKa!!!'"
It's what they have.
Ukraine is a perfect example.
You are ignoring Russia's history of genocide in Ukraine. Ukraine is a perfect example of a people saying "Yes, we have been invaded and genocided by Russia before. Not this time, thanks."
Instead, we get the Putinistas moaning "Poor little Russia! Always the VICTIM!!!" whilst crying crocodile tears.
B/B
I know they aren't which is my point. They refer to the culprit in the conflict as the US and they ain't wrong but they don't seem to see the whole picture. I am merely reminding them the blame can easily be doled out in equal measures to other countries as well. There's a bigger picture that neither you nor they acknowledge.
Your position appears to be "Putin evil, Russia bad" and that being the cause of the Russian invasion. It's not from IMHO. You cite the distant history or the region and totally ignore the more recent. It could easily be argued that it goes back to the Budapest memorandum or the Orange revolution.
The result of the Budapest memorandum was "Not One Inch" of Western aggression toward Russia, was it not? Obama, Soros and Nuland were sowing the seeds of discontent as early as 2008. One could easily argue it started in the Dubya admin and they wouldn't be wrong, either. The the cash, the weapons, the bio labs and the influence is a real thing. They knew it would provoke Putin when they started it. Russia IMO was the target from the beginning. Ukraine is mere cannon fodder to achieve their goals
I have no fondness for Putin and I am certainly no Putin apologist but anyone thinking the conflict started when Russia invaded has had their head up their a$$ for the last 18-20 years
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I have no fondness for Putin and I am certainly no Putin apologist but anyone thinking the conflict started when Russia invaded has had their head up their a$$ for the last 18-20 years
Me too....unfortunately some people they cannot see further
from their mose !!!
BTW I happen to be in Kiev and then went to Lvov, when the Orange revolution Started
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If you struggle to accept it from myself or Manny, then here's one of your own, summing it up perfectly.
Mearshimer is a long-time Putin apologist. He won't say where his $ comes from because he's likely on the take, but at least won't lie.
He is tuck in the "OldThink" in the same manner (on a different topic) as Graham Allison.
More importantly, Mearshimer has been wrong about a lot.
First, he ignores that E. Europeans wanted into NATO for protection against a historical foe who had invaded and genocided them in the past. It's not jsut "but muh AMERICA!" Mearshimer, like you and Manny, cannot view things this way because that would force you to focus on Russia and Russia's history in the region, that Russia might be in the wrong. But you CANNOT so you don't.
This nonsense about "But AmErIcA wants to strangle Russia" is garbage also. We see it now with Finland and Sweden. Do you think they are joining NATO because they want to wage war on Russia? Or because Russia's actions have scared them into it?
Second, he (wrongly) predicted that Putin's territorial ambitions would end at Crimea. Now Putin has annexed the Donbas. Lavrov talks about regime change. Putin waxes philosophical about Pyotr Veliki's war with Sweden as "returning lands to Russia."
I think Putin would LOVE to take virtually all of Ukraine, but he (nor you, nor Mearshimer) can admit this because then (a) it's not about NATO anymore even for you, (b) you would no longer be able to rationalize Russia's defeat in the Battle of Ukraine.
Mearshimer at least puts a veneer on his arguments; ‘Yes, Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine, but …" and what follows is an avalanche of excuse-making and false moral equivalence: "NATO provoked Russia, Ukraine provoked Russia, blah, blah."
The cause is the same as always: Russian nationalism.
Russians have had to watch E. European standards of living rise after they joined the EU. If that happened in Ukraine, that would be a bridge to far for the regime.
But hey, keep on rationalizing, and blaming everyone but Russia.
B/B
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Your position appears to be "Putin evil, Russia bad"
Oh, I don't hate Russia. I rather enjoyed my time there.
and that being the cause of the Russian invasion. It's not from IMHO.
Being wrong isn't a crime, you are free to go. ;)
You cite the distant history or the region and totally ignore the more recent.
Ukrainians do not regard the "distant" history as being so distant; certainly it has not passed from living memory. Would you say the same thing to a Jewish person about the Holocaust?
It could easily be argued that it goes back to the Budapest memorandum or the Orange revolution.
It goes back to Russian Nationalism. Crimea was *always* on the agenda.
And there is no "grand plan" to strangle Russia: Ukrainians want what other Europeans wanted - protection from their historical oppressor. Indeed, Russia has demonstrated itself to be such a threat that Finland and Sweden have been driven to join NATO also. Putin stepped on his own cock there.
You (in part) much like rosco and Manny have to ignore this because if you faced it head on, you would have to draw some conclusions about Russia.
The result of the Budapest memorandum was "Not One Inch" of Western aggression toward Russia, was it not?
NATO is a defensive alliance.
Another part of the Budapest Memorandum involved respecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine - how exactly are Russia's annexations of Crimea and the Donbas in any way congruent with that?
Exactly, it's not - and that's what gives the LIE to the "BuT mUH Russia is OnLy DeFeNDiNG iTseLF fROm BiG, MeaN, naTo!!!" bullshit.
Had Russia been a better neighbor in E. Europe, they'd have more friends than just Lukashenko.
B/B
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If you struggle to accept it from myself or Manny, then here's one of your own, summing it up perfectly.
Mearshimer is a long-time Putin apologist. He won't say where his $ comes from because he's likely on the take, but at least won't lie.
He is tuck in the "OldThink" in the same manner (on a different topic) as Graham Allison.
More importantly, Mearshimer has been wrong about a lot.
First, he ignores that E. Europeans wanted into NATO for protection against a historical foe who had invaded and genocided them in the past. It's not jsut "but muh AMERICA!" Mearshimer, like you and Manny, cannot view things this way because that would force you to focus on Russia and Russia's history in the region, that Russia might be in the wrong. But you CANNOT so you don't.
This nonsense about "But AmErIcA wants to strangle Russia" is garbage also. We see it now with Finland and Sweden. Do you think they are joining NATO because they want to wage war on Russia? Or because Russia's actions have scared them into it?
Second, he (wrongly) predicted that Putin's territorial ambitions would end at Crimea. Now Putin has annexed the Donbas. Lavrov talks about regime change. Putin waxes philosophical about Pyotr Veliki's war with Sweden as "returning lands to Russia."
I think Putin would LOVE to take virtually all of Ukraine, but he (nor you, nor Mearshimer) can admit this because then (a) it's not about NATO anymore even for you, (b) you would no longer be able to rationalize Russia's defeat in the Battle of Ukraine.
Mearshimer at least puts a veneer on his arguments; ‘Yes, Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine, but …" and what follows is an avalanche of excuse-making and false moral equivalence: "NATO provoked Russia, Ukraine provoked Russia, blah, blah."
The cause is the same as always: Russian nationalism.
Russians have had to watch E. European standards of living rise after they joined the EU. If that happened in Ukraine, that would be a bridge to far for the regime.
But hey, keep on rationalizing, and blaming everyone but Russia.
B/B
WHAT A LOT OF RUBBISH
Obviously you are not very good in your bullshit.......
May I remind who was first invated Berlin?
a) Who signed the capitulation with Germany and
b) what was the REAL REASON for the creation of NATO?
c) Which army first invated Berlin and had to wait FOR the American and British army to arrive?
d) What was/is the REAL reason for the permanent creation of 40 USA army basses in Germany, and BERLIN AFTER GERMANY, SIGNED THE CAPITULATION TILL 2099.
WHAT IS THE REAL REASON FOR USA THAT HAS CREATED SO MANY BASES IN EVERY COUNTRY WHO HAS JOINED NATO included my birth country?
May I suggest to you to learn more about Geopolitics......
why us has 800+ army aes around the globe?
Have a nice EASTER today according to the Cristian calender.........
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NATO is a defensive alliance.
Who were they defending when they bombed Yugoslavia?
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Now Putin has annexed the Donbas. Lavrov talks about regime change.
You're ignoring the point that Putin has made for 8 years, that Donbass's civil war must end and they must return to Ukraine (perhaps as a federated state, but still under Ukraines leadership) after watching that for 8 years , did he change his tune.
Now Putin has annexed But hey, keep on rationalizing, and blaming everyone but Russia.
B/B
And you keep ignoring anything and everyone that makes good points, because putin-bad.
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WHAT A LOT OF RUBBISH
See, this is why I don't bother to engage you. Lots of heat, but not a lot of light, but plenty of ALL CAPS, non-sequiturs, ignorance, etc.
May I remind who was first invated Berlin?
So not only is this not relevant, by the time that the Allies were advancing on Berlin, the occupation zones had already been decided at Yalta.
Your ignorance of history is profound, and there is no point in me engaging with you, so I do not.
NATO is a defensive alliance.
Who were they defending when they bombed Yugoslavia?
The victims of the Milošević ethnic cleansing. Are you expanding your defense of genocide from the Holodomor to Yugoslavia now?
At any rate, NATO was importuned upon to clean up the mess that the EU coulnd't handle (surprise!) on its own, and then EU Grand High Poobah Jacques Poos -- who despite the incredibly effeminate/scatological name is surprisingly not French -- invited NATO to butt right back in again as soon as things got the *teensiest* bit difficult.
But hey, I look forward to the day when those folks outside of North America no longer require Adult Supervision....
You're ignoring ....
You are ignoring Putin's (a) Invasion, (b) war crimes, and (c) annexation of the Crimea and the Donbas.
And you keep ignoring anything and everyone that makes good points, because putin-bad.
No, the Putinistas make "good points" (meaning ones you agree with) and I point out the flaws, because they are not based on rationality but on emotional investment in Russia being "right". That's a problem because Russia isn't "right" here.
B/B
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You are ignoring Putin's (a) Invasion, (b) war crimes, and (c) annexation of the Crimea and the Donbas.
B/B
I see that I must repeat something I also did with another member:
There's this concept called "time" which flows in only one direction.
In this 'time' , named 'year 2014'
A+B+C were not yet in play.
As for C in more detail:
Crimea left Ukraine first , and only 3 days later the sovereign peninsula Crimea had joined Russia by Referendum. I agree the nuances are lost amongst most people, but Crimea leaving Ukraine was first.
Putin annexed therefore an independent state named 'The republic of Crimea'.
Donbass were not active nor annexed by Russia, they were however supported by Russia by sending arms there, but no men, no army and certainly nothing that would claim they had been 'annexed' by russia. Putin even denied their wish for annexation and said they had to return to Ukraine and he'd be willing to broker that deal.
So far for my ignoring anything.
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You are ignoring Putin's (a) Invasion, (b) war crimes, and (c) annexation of the Crimea and the Donbas.
B/B
I see that I must repeat something I also did with another member:
There's this concept called "time" which flows in only one direction.
In this 'time' , named 'year 2014'
A+B+C were not yet in play.
As for C in more detail:
Crimea left Ukraine first , and only 3 days later the sovereign peninsula Crimea had joined Russia by Referendum. I agree the nuances are lost amongst most people, but Crimea leaving Ukraine was first.
Putin annexed therefore an independent state named 'The republic of Crimea'.
Donbass were not active nor annexed by Russia, they were however supported by Russia by sending arms there, but no men, no army and certainly nothing that would claim they had been 'annexed' by russia. Putin even denied their wish for annexation and said they had to return to Ukraine and he'd be willing to broker that deal.
So far for my ignoring anything.
They were not annexed by Russia just the first 90 days of their existence It was run by ex-Russian military personal who just got out of the military and every day since, Russian has had direct controlled of the leadership. Leadership members who did not follow Putin's rule close enough died in a way that everyone knew what happen, but the Kremlin was able to deny it. This civil war as you called it was organized and run by the Russian military. It was planned many years before maiden. It occurred when the majority of the population did not support it. Yana is one of those people who never support Russia created civil war. This war is just part of the propaganda to make it not seem Russia just invade its neighbor country for no real reason other than to gain territory and wealth.
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Russian/Norway war forming? I am sure Markje you support Norway becoming part of Russia just like you support Ukraine being part of Russia and the people of Norway being treated like Russia treats the people of Siberia where it steals the natural resources and returns very little to them. The idea here is to weaken Nato so Russian can take whatever assets it wants from whoever it wants to take them from. Russia does not want you in the west to be wealthy whether you live in Norway, the USA or other European countries. It will destroy western wealth wherever they can. They do this because when you destroy western wealth you destroy western power. If you listen to the propaganda, they so much admit it.
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Russian/Norway war forming? I am sure Markje you support Norway becoming part of Russia just like you support Ukraine being part of Russia and the people of
You really do live in a fantasy world, I have stated public on this board many times what I think of Ukraine and Norway is nowhere close to Russia, not even in the arctic circle. Perhaps you meant Finland.
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Russian/Norway war forming? I am sure Markje you support Norway becoming part of Russia just like you support Ukraine being part of Russia and the people of
You really do live in a fantasy world, I have stated public on this board many times what I think of Ukraine and Norway is nowhere close to Russia, not even in the arctic circle. Perhaps you meant Finland.
Have you noticed that Russia is trying the same crap in Norway on its remote islands as it did in Ukraine. You are the one living in a fantasy world with this Russia trying to save everyone from Nazis. These islands do not have anything to do with Russian security just a wealth grab. That is what Ukraine is really about. I bet you did not see the video because you do not want to be informed.
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Russian/Norway war forming? I am sure Markje you support Norway becoming part of Russia just like you support Ukraine being part of Russia and the people of
You really do live in a fantasy world, I have stated public on this board many times what I think of Ukraine and Norway is nowhere close to Russia, not even in the arctic circle. Perhaps you meant Finland.
Have you noticed that Russia is trying the same crap in Norway on its remote islands as it did in Ukraine. You are the one living in a fantasy world with this Russia trying to save everyone from Nazis. These islands do not have anything to do with Russian security just a wealth grab. That is what Ukraine is really about. I bet you did not see the video because you do not want to be informed.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Russian/Norway war forming? I am sure Markje you support Norway becoming part of Russia just like you support Ukraine being part of Russia and the people of
You really do live in a fantasy world, I have stated public on this board many times what I think of Ukraine and Norway is nowhere close to Russia, not even in the arctic circle. Perhaps you meant Finland.
Have you noticed that Russia is trying the same crap in Norway on its remote islands as it did in Ukraine. You are the one living in a fantasy world with this Russia trying to save everyone from Nazis. These islands do not have anything to do with Russian security just a wealth grab. That is what Ukraine is really about. I bet you did not see the video because you do not want to be informed.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Laugh all you like. But this crap happening in Ukraine is what Russia has been doing for centuries. They attack on the pretext of their security. If you look at the video, you see the similar of what Russia is doing with Norway's island and what they are doing in Ukraine. The biggest advantage Russia has is Europeans who buy the propaganda and support them transporting wealth from the west to the few in Russia which is really what all this is about. Russia has similar things going in in a number of other countries including Georga, Romania, Moldovia, and the Baltic countries.
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Russian/Norway war forming? I am sure Markje you support Norway becoming part of Russia just like you support Ukraine being part of Russia and the people of
You really do live in a fantasy world, I have stated public on this board many times what I think of Ukraine and Norway is nowhere close to Russia, not even in the arctic circle. Perhaps you meant Finland.
Have you noticed that Russia is trying the same crap in Norway on its remote islands as it did in Ukraine. You are the one living in a fantasy world with this Russia trying to save everyone from Nazis. These islands do not have anything to do with Russian security just a wealth grab. That is what Ukraine is really about. I bet you did not see the video because you do not want to be informed.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Laugh all you like. But this crap happening in Ukraine is what Russia has been doing for centuries. They attack on the pretext of their security. If you look at the video, you see the similar of what Russia is doing with Norway's island and what they are doing in Ukraine. The biggest advantage Russia has is Europeans who buy the propaganda and support them transporting wealth from the west to the few in Russia which is really what all this is about. Russia has similar things going in in a number of other countries including Georga, Romania, Moldovia, and the Baltic countries.
:ROFL:
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While Russian Nationalism knows it seems few limits under today’s Kremlin, an invasion of Spitsbergen/Svalbard seems unlikely. The treaty of 1930 is fairly simple giving the archipelago to Norway. The powers to be might squabble about how many fish they can catch but is unlikely to become a source of a war.
It is much like voices in Russia grumbling about Alaska.
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While Russian Nationalism knows it seems few limits under today’s Kremlin, an invasion of Spitsbergen/Svalbard seems unlikely. The treaty of 1930 is fairly simple giving the archipelago to Norway. The powers to be might squabble about how many fish they can catch but is unlikely to become a source of a war.
It is much like voices in Russia grumbling about Alaska.
It is much different because Russia has power in the artic, they do not have elsewhere. They are no military force in the artic circle. Russia has 70 ice breakers which is more than the rest of the world combined and they are the most powerful in the world. During the war in Ukraine, Russia short money still builds ice breakers. They maintain a present on these islands which there is not economic viable reason to do so except to use as an excuse to invade them by claiming the Nazis in Norway are unfairly treating Russians on the island. Russia has already claimed this once. I do not think Russia has figured out the next target but is maintaining a number of options. This seems to be one that is actually viable as Russia could capture them before the west has a chance to respond. It would not be like the three-day war in Ukraine. This would be a three-hour war and this time there would be little to stand in their way. Over before the west had a chance to respond. Infact Russia has cut one communication cable to the island as a test already. They could cut both and it might be over before the west even know it was happening. The motive for the invasion of the island would be oil and gas reserve of their coast.
Russia appears to be gearing up for a sabotage war in Europe and the USA. Already a few plots have been uncovered and stopped in Europe. One involved trains in the Czech Republic where they were trying to mess up railroad signals to wreck trains with passengers on them.
Ukraine is hoping during this summer Nato meeting that they inch closer to Nato membership. It appears the war in Ukraine has not reach maximum intensity yet.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-on-the-brink-of-receiving-nato-invitation-ukrainian-pm/ar-BB1lTZzg?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1fe174e7deb0423f949245f81f475bf9&ei=66
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While Russian Nationalism knows it seems few limits under today’s Kremlin, an invasion of Spitsbergen/Svalbard seems unlikely. The treaty of 1930 is fairly simple giving the archipelago to Norway. The powers to be might squabble about how many fish they can catch but is unlikely to become a source of a war.
It is much like voices in Russia grumbling about Alaska.
It is much different because Russia has power in the artic, they do not have elsewhere. They are no military force in the artic circle. Russia has 70 ice breakers which is more than the rest of the world combined and they are the most powerful in the world. During the war in Ukraine, Russia short money still builds ice breakers. They maintain a present on these islands which there is not economic viable reason to do so except to use as an excuse to invade them by claiming the Nazis in Norway are unfairly treating Russians on the island. Russia has already claimed this once. I do not think Russia has figured out the next target but is maintaining a number of options. This seems to be one that is actually viable as Russia could capture them before the west has a chance to respond. It would not be like the three-day war in Ukraine. This would be a three-hour war and this time there would be little to stand in their way. Over before the west had a chance to respond. Infact Russia has cut one communication cable to the island as a test already. They could cut both and it might be over before the west even know it was happening. The motive for the invasion of the island would be oil and gas reserve of their coast.
Russia appears to be gearing up for a sabotage war in Europe and the USA. Already a few plots have been uncovered and stopped in Europe. One involved trains in the Czech Republic where they were trying to mess up railroad signals to wreck trains with passengers on them.
Ukraine is hoping during this summer Nato meeting that they inch closer to Nato membership. It appears the war in Ukraine has not reach maximum intensity yet.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-on-the-brink-of-receiving-nato-invitation-ukrainian-pm/ar-BB1lTZzg?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1fe174e7deb0423f949245f81f475bf9&ei=66
One could look at the British with regards to the Falklands to see how this would end. Worth noting Russia has approximately 70 targets that are floating. Russia calls them icebreakers, I would see them as future submarines.
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NATO is a defensive alliance.
Who were they defending when they bombed Yugoslavia?
The victims of the Milo%u0161evi%u0107 ethnic cleansing. Are you expanding your defense of genocide from the Holodomor to Yugoslavia now?
The point being they were not defending a NATO member. Nor did they get authorisation from the UN Security Council for the bombing. It was a hostile action against a foreign country done without permission. It doesn't matter that who they were bombing were not nice guys, it proves the point that NATO is not an organisation that simply acts in defence of its members. It is an aggressive force that is happy to invade countries that are far beyond its remit.
So your supposition that NATO is merely a defensive organisation is therefore demonstrably false.
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......an invasion of Spitsbergen/Svalbard seems unlikely. The treaty of 1930 is fairly simple giving the archipelago to Norway. The powers to be might squabble about how many fish they can catch but is unlikely to become a source of a war.
If there's any beef at all between Russia and Norway, it might be a squabble over fishing rights but that's literally it. The only other chat comes from pro war anti Russian politicians, looking to scare the people and promote/justify defence spending and retards on YouTube, who Tex appears to get his news from.
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During the war in Ukraine, Russia short money still builds ice breakers. They maintain a present on these islands which there is not economic viable reason to do so except to use as an excuse to invade them by claiming the Nazis in Norway are unfairly treating Russians on the island. Russia has already claimed this once. I do not think Russia has figured out the next target but is maintaining a number of options. This seems to be one that is actually viable as Russia could capture them before the west has a chance to respond.
You're so unhinged and under educated, it's sad to watch. :prophead:
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Zelensky escapes his six-assassination attempt.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-busts-up-russia-s-zelenskyy-assassination-plot-in-massive-failure-of-putin-s-spies/ar-BB1lYQep?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=b84443e121a34fdcb76932776e12eb96&ei=13
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......an invasion of Spitsbergen/Svalbard seems unlikely. The treaty of 1930 is fairly simple giving the archipelago to Norway. The powers to be might squabble about how many fish they can catch but is unlikely to become a source of a war.
If there's any beef at all between Russia and Norway, it might be a squabble over fishing rights but that's literally it. The only other chat comes from pro war anti Russian politicians, looking to scare the people and promote/justify defence spending and retards on YouTube, who Tex appears to get his news from.
It is because you do not see what is really happening. Norway is a big contributor to the war on Ukraine and not on the Russian side. This is because not everything is so cool between Norway and Russia. Look at the clip and you see exist things that are going on or you can stay ignorant. Not my problem if you are not in touch with reality.
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You're so unhinged and under educated, it's sad to watch. :prophead:
These are the words of someone who has nothing of substance to add to the conversation.
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You're so unhinged and under educated, it's sad to watch. :prophead:
These are the words of someone who has nothing of substance to add to the conversation.
Said the man who trolls the Biden/Harris thread and waste's everyone's time.
I've not got the spare time to go back and forth, with someone who lives in a parallel universe and cant be educated. I've previously spent hours providing Tex with sources, proving him and his MSN links wrong but he's unable to process any of it. You and him can maybe have a rub off and discuss Russia invading Norway no?
I'd suggest you stick to fantasising over tranny's and have your Trump derangement syndrome looked at. Keep in lane sweet heart.....
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You're so unhinged and under educated, it's sad to watch. :prophead:
These are the words of someone who has nothing of substance to add to the conversation.
I'd suggest Rosco adds substance to every conversation. You just don't agree with him.
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It is because you do not see what is really happening. Norway is a big contributor to the war on Ukraine and not on the Russian side. This is because not everything is so cool between Norway and Russia. Look at the clip and you see exist things that are going on or you can stay ignorant. Not my problem if you are not in touch with reality.
Let's see if you can handle the truth Tex, we'll dig into some hard facts.
So you tell me that Russia is especially mad at Norway because they're a big contributor to the war.......yea? You're suggesting that Norways support is in some way tipping the scales in Ukraines favour and Russia have singled them out for special treatment. So, let's take a look behind the MSN/YouTube monkeys claims......
- Since January 2022 Western nations have pledged more than $380 billion in aid to Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=Since%20January%202022%2C%20mostly%20Western,to%20Ukraine%20from%20individual%20countries.
- Norway in 2022 and 2023 provided around 30 billion NOK which is about $2.7 billion.
https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/foreign-affairs/humanitarian-efforts/neighbour_support/id2908141/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20overview%20of,by%20Russia's%20invasion%20of%20Ukraine.&text=For%20the%20period%202023%2D2027,15%20billion%20kroner%20per%20year).
Those figures are from their own website but the BBC claims it's as much as $4.1 billion, however are you really suggesting that this tiny amount in the grand scale of things, is enough for Russia to make Norway the next target on your fantasy conquest list? Norway might be contributing a bit more as a percentage of their GDP but in reality, they're just another western NATO member who's leaders have agreed to keep the fighting going as long as possible and kill as many Ukrainians and Russian's whilst they're at it.
No more no less and this $2.7-4.1 billion from Norway is a fly on a cow's arse. Tell me you understand why I consistently challenge your claims?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/66870559
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I've sped watched your YouTube link Tex. Nothing more than sensationalism from a US journalist looking to stoke the flames and keep the fear levels high. How dramatic.....how boring.......
Given Norways decision to back Ukraine, we can expect discussions and disagreements on stuff like transport or fishing on the borders at a political level but to suggest that Russia is about to invade Norway, a NATO member along with allegedly the Baltics, Poland, Finland, UK, Moldova, Georgia....and whoever else the globalists squeal and point to on a map, is quite simply a lie.
We now know why Russia began its conflict with Ukraine and we know that ethnic Russians in Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk had all been blockaded by their own Ukrainian government and in some cases shelled and murdered. We also know that the US primarily instigated regime change and we know that western weapons were flowing into the country, bio labs were springing up and talk of NATO membership and US military bases being built on the Russian border were at an advanced stage.
If we engage our brains and listen to what Russia have said lately, then none of us would be so silly as to inbed Youtube videos, telling us that Putin is like Hitler and he's coming to invade Europe. That's why people like you get laughed at Tex. This is why I rarely engage you these days.
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You are ignoring Putin's (a) Invasion, (b) war crimes, and (c) annexation of the Crimea and the Donbas.
B/B
I see that I must repeat something I also did with another member:
There's this concept called "time" which flows in only one direction.
In this 'time' , named 'year 2014'
A+B+C were not yet in play.
As for C in more detail:
Crimea left Ukraine first , and only 3 days later the sovereign peninsula Crimea had joined Russia by Referendum. I agree the nuances are lost amongst most people, but Crimea leaving Ukraine was first.
Putin annexed therefore an independent state named 'The republic of Crimea'.
It is not just you who has to repeat himself:
There is a legal, constitutional process by which a region may leave Ukraine. This process was not observed w.r.t. Crimea. You're not stupid, Mark, you know this. But much like American (and international, really) liberals, you have to walk around believing in things you known not to be true in order to square the circle relative to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Donbass were not active nor annexed by Russia...
On 30 September 2022, Russia unilaterally declared its annexation of Donbas as well as the Kherson and Zaporozhye Oblasts. Why is this so difficult for you to admit?
B/B
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So your supposition that NATO is merely a defensive organisation is therefore demonstrably false.
The fact that NATO had to clean up the EU's mess in Yugoslavia - and really, outside of the UK, Europeans consistently fail to understand the significance of Hard Power - does not change the fundamental nature of NATO.
Believe me, most Americans would have been happy if the EU could have put its on house in order in Europe, but also unsurprised when it could not.
B/B
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One could look at the British with regards to the Falklands to see how this would end. Worth noting Russia has approximately 70 targets that are floating. Russia calls them icebreakers, I would see them as future submarines.
Indeed, as then-Senator and future SecDef William Cohen pointed out, the real 'miracle" of Grenada was how fast the "Cuban Construction Workers" beat their plowshares into AK-47s.
B/B
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Believe me, most Americans would have been happy if the EU could have put its on house in order in Europe, but also unsurprised when it could not.
B/B
That's a really short sighted view of the situation.
The reality is, US meddling in international affairs and in this particular instance Ukraine, is directly responsible for the European house being in a mess. Russia had been growing ever closer to the EU over the last few decades but Uncle Sam had to make sure Russia and the West remained at odds.
Our 'free' western media has stuck to the narrative of a wicked revanchist Russia attacking innocent democratic unified Ukraine, as a first step to conquering Europe and satisfying Putins thirst for blood and glory......in reality it's all about the US maintaining control over Europe, slowing down the decline and strategically weakening their appointed enemy. In fact this is all about the US and dick swinging with the European pleb leaders being made to dance to the tune.
Ukraines been on the US radar as far back as 2008 and there's a wealth of information at your finger tips to educate yourself about it. Yes it was Russia who launched the invasion and they can certainly be held accountable for that but it is the US who has created the environment for war in Europe to happen. In about a years time, the west will have ploughed nearly $500 billion into Ukraine, the country wrecked and millions dead - if the US really wanted peace, they'd simply have stepped back from Ukraine and left it alone. It was never about Ukrainian sovereignty and the sooner you accept that the easier the debate will become.
Alas.....they wanted this to happen and some back in Washington are really enjoying the show.
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One could look at the British with regards to the Falklands to see how this would end. Worth noting Russia has approximately 70 targets that are floating. Russia calls them icebreakers, I would see them as future submarines.
Indeed, as then-Senator and future SecDef William Cohen pointed out, the real 'miracle" of Grenada was how fast the "Cuban Construction Workers" beat their plowshares into AK-47s.
B/B
In reply to the above comments and for your education and information, I am copying the following article regarding facts and what actullay Russia in gaining and will continue to gain.... with the war in Ukraine.
At the same time I will rest my painful arm to! Enjoy reading:
Meet the New Boss…He’s not the same as the Old Boss
By Scott Ritter May 10
Vladimir Putin delivers his fifth inaugural address, May 7, 2024
Vladimir Putin was sworn in for his fifth term as Russia’s President. Mainstream Western Russian “experts” paint Putin as a corrupt autocrat governing over a failed system and nation. Their “reality” couldn’t be further from the truth
In her July 27, 2020, review of Catherine Belton’s book, Putin’s People, in The Atlantic, Anne Applebaum concluded that following his re-election as Russia’s President in the Spring of 2018, Vladimir Putin and his cronies had “once again created a calcified, authoritarian political system in Russia,” including “a corrupt economy that discourages innovation and entrepreneurship.” Years of Putin presidential leadership, Applebaum noted, had left Russia destitute. “Instead of experiencing the prosperity and political dynamism that still seemed possible in the ’90s,” the Pulitzer Prize-winning author declared, “Russia is once again impoverished and apathetic. But,” she concluded, “Putin and his people are thriving—and that was the most important goal all along.
Applebaum is a much sought after speaker on post-Cold War Russia, where she specializes in picking apart Russia’s Soviet past while lamenting the rise to power of Vladimir Putin, whom she characterizes as an autocrat, at the end of the decade of the 1990’s. In Applebaum’s defense, she is not alone in this regard. Indeed, she finds herself in the company of former ambassadors (Michael McFaul), national security experts (Fiona Hill and Angela Stent), and intelligence officers (Andrea Kendall-Taylor, Steve Hall, and John Sipher), all of whom have used their Russian-laden résumés to insinuate themselves into what passes for a national dialogue in the mainstream media over the true nature of Russia and its leadership, and what that means for the United States and its European allies.
Anne Applebaum
Without exception, the cast of characters assembled above have echoed Applebaum’s summation of Putin’s legacy and future as Russia’s leader. There is one important difference, however—while Applebaum has been an observer of Russian events, the others were all players in the game, active participants in the formulation and implementation of American policy regarding Russia in the period immediately following the collapse of the Soviet Union. They helped propagate polices designed to exploit Russian political, economic, and security weaknesses to the sole benefit of the United States and, when Putin’s unexpected assimilation to the Russian presidency threatened to undo all that they had accomplished during the decade of ruinous governance under Boris Yeltsin, these same actors actively worked to undermine Russia in hopes of bringing Putin down.
Any analyst who speaks of the catastrophic decade of the 1990’s in terms of “prosperity and political dynamism” cannot be described as a Russian “expert,” but rather an anti-Russian propogandist. The same must be said of anyone who compares the social and economic condition of Russia circa 1999 with Russia in 2020, and opts to describe the present condition in terms of apathetic impoverishment. The fact that Applebaum and company articulate Russia’s current economic situation as corrupt and lacking in innovation and entrepreneurship might explain why they have all gotten it 100% wrong when advocating the imposition of harsh economic sanctions against Russia in the aftermath of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, believing that the Russian economy would collapse, only to witness its survival, revival, and explosive expansion. There are two words that describe the Russian economic environment today—innovation and entrepreneurship. The fact that these words are not in the lexicon of these erstwhile “experts” when describing the Russian economic reality today speaks volumes about the ignorance of this collective.
Applebaum and her ilk understand the roots of Russian political corruption and calcification all too well—they purpose-built this system under the leadership of former President Boris Yeltsin and married it to an economic scheme that saw pensioners robbed while robber barons thrived. The Russian oligarch class was midwifed by the present-day Russian “experts” who explain Russia to an American audience infected with the disease of Russophobia these experts help vector into the mainstream. The marriage of Russian oligarchs to Russian political power was part and parcel of an overarching US-driven scheme designed to destroy, not revive, the Russian nation. It was the living embodiment of societal calcification. And when Vladimir Putin’s rise to power threatened to unravel their grand plan, these experts turned on him, projecting their sins onto the new president in classic Orwellian fashion, flipping the script so that up was down, left was right, and right was wrong.
Mikhail Kodorkovsky, a corrupt Russian oligarch
The Applebaum class of erstwhile Russian “experts” cannot ever tell the truth about Russia, because to do so would require them to honestly reflect on their own wrongdoing when it came to destroying Russia to begin with, and seeking to keep it destroyed in the decades to follow. They have built careers and fashioned sinecures based on these lies, and their very existence depends on their ability to sustain the telling of these lies to the American public.
The Russia that Vladimir Putin inherited from Boris Yeltsin was a fundamentally broken nation. The oligarch class insinuated itself into the very fabric of Russian economic and political society, and the Russian people had lost faith with their own history and culture, instead seeking western-style fortune that required them to debase themselves on the altar of assumed western cultural superiority. A nation that far removed from its true nature is nearly impossible to govern—no politician could survive the shock therapy required to reverse course. Putin had to prioritize those parts of Russia that needed fixing first, forcing him to hold his nose at the rot that had to be left for the time being, since it provided the framework that kept what passed for Russia together.
Over the years, Putin was able to chip away at the corruption of the oligarch class, repairing the damage done by the decades of neglect, and slowly encouraging the healing process necessary to revive the Russian nation and the Russian people. But the residual taint of the Yeltsin years still attached itself to the Russian body, the infection running too deep to be purged without undoing much of the accomplishments that had been achieved regarding societal rejuvenation. The West’s response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, however, gave Putin an unexpected boost in this regard. First, hundreds of thousands of political opponents, the followers of Alexi Navalny, fled the country. Second, the West sanctioned the oligarch class, crippling them financially and weakening them in terms of the influence they could exert back in Russia. And finally, the West pushed for the near-total divorce with Russia economically, and in doing so pulled the plug on a politically powerful class of Russian businessmen who had become inextricably intertwined with the western business elite.
In short, the western response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, influenced by Anne Applebaum and her ilk, backfired dramatically. Not only did western sanctions destroy the political viability of the Russian oligarch class and business elites, but it boomeranged back on the West in a classic blowback that has crippled the European economy. Vladmir Putin was able to use the need to boost the Russian defense economy to pursue the kind of innovation and entrepreneurship Applebaum et. al. claimed was nonexistent in Russia today.
The war with Ukraine and the collective West accomplished something else as well—it awoken a dormant sense of patriotism among the Russian people. This patriotic revival has led to Russians falling in love with Russia, rediscovering their culture, their history, their religion, and their values. Vladimir Putin has been the driving force for the Russian renewal, building upon this new sense of national pride to redefine Russia’s role on the international stage as a great nation with a unique culture that is capable of self-sustainment, and as such never again dependent upon the West for anything. This new Russia can stand on its own two feet and protect itself from any enemy that might present itself.
The fly in the ointment of this current reality, however, is the degree to which Russia has become dependent upon the leadership of Vladimir Putin. Putin won reelection by securing 88% of the vote with a 77% turnout among eligible voters. This is a mandate for the kind of change that Putin previously could not consider for fear of tearing apart the fabric of Russian civil and economic society. With the oligarch class and the pro-western economic elites effectively neutered by sanctions, Putin can enact sweeping economic reforms designed to reinvigorate the Russian economy based upon the massive reinvestment of resources which had earlier been taken out of Russia.
Russian soldiers in the Special Military Operation
The war with Ukraine has freed up Putin in another, perhaps even more important, way. The residual rot of the Yeltsin years, in the form of regional politicians who were more concerned about their individual wealth than they were about the Russian collective, still existed and, in their numbers, were still a formidable power. By turning the war with Ukraine away from being a war between two brotherly Slavic peoples, which many Russians opposed, into an existential struggle for survival with the collective West, Putin has tapped into a pool of patriotism the likes of which has not been seen since the Second World War. Russian patriotism is now directly linked to support of, and service in, the Special Military Operation. Vladimir Putin has drawn upon this new patriotism and the mandate provided by his electoral victory to redefine the modern Russian political class, and by doing so, putting in motion the kind of structural changes necessary for Russia to continue to grow and thrive in a post-Putin era.
“It is often said here,” President Putin stated in his inaugural address, “that the head of state in Russia answers and will always answer for everything. This is still the case. But today,” Putin noted, “although I have a deep awareness of my own personal responsibility, I nevertheless want to emphasize that Russia’s success and prosperity cannot and should not depend on one single person or one political party, or political force alone. We need a broad base for developing democracy in our country and for continuing the transformations we have begun. It is my conviction,” he continued, “that a mature civil society is the best guarantee that this development will continue. Only free people in a free country can be genuinely successful. This is the foundation for both economic growth and political stability in Russia. We will do all we can to ensure that everyone here can realize their talents and abilities, to ensure that a genuinely multiparty system develops and that personal freedoms are strengthened.”
The “calcified, authoritarian political system” that Anne Applebaum decried is but a figment of her imagination, and that of those who, like her, have come to hate anything and everything affiliated with the Russia that Vladimir Putin has rebuilt from the ruins of the Yeltsin decade. She and her fellow Russian “experts” have gotten it wrong on Russia and its leadership, and will continue to do so going forward. Hopefully, those in positions of responsibility will understand the price that has been paid for giving credence to such warped analysis, and start listening to the assessments of those who seek to understand the reality of Russia as it is, and not the fiction perpetrated by those who are locked in the failed policies of the past. Only in this way can the disease of Russophobia that has gripped the psyche of the American public by overcome. And when that time comes—and it will come—we can all recognize the reality of what Vladimir Putin has already accomplished and appreciate that which is currently embarked on accomplishing.
Meet the new boss. He’s not the same as the old boss.
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Germany could bring back conscription for all 18-year-olds amid fears out an all-out NATO war with Russia, leaked military plans reveal.
Military planners are discussing three potential plans, two of which involve a compulsory military year for all men once they turn 18.
It is understood that officials are in the final stages of discussions with German defense minister Boris Pistorius expected to go public with official plans next month, The Sunday Telegraph reported.
Mr Pistorius, during a trip to Washington last week, said he was 'convinced' that Germany 'needs a form of military conscription'.
He also previously described the country's decision to suspend compulsory military service in 2011 as a 'mistake'.
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Germany could bring back conscription for all 18-year-olds amid fears out an all-out NATO war with Russia, leaked military plans reveal.
Military planners are discussing three potential plans, two of which involve a compulsory military year for all men once they turn 18.
It is understood that officials are in the final stages of discussions with German defense minister Boris Pistorius expected to go public with official plans next month, The Sunday Telegraph reported.
Mr Pistorius, during a trip to Washington last week, said he was 'convinced' that Germany 'needs a form of military conscription'.
He also previously described the country's decision to suspend compulsory military service in 2011 as a 'mistake'.
AFTER READING THE ABOVE COMMENTS......
It becomes very clear that USA started to realise that they are not the old superpower, after the WWII who managed to control the rest of the wold for its own benefits. Now looks that there is a large competision around BRICS (Russia and \China etc) and USA is not the only superpower even with all its allies in NATO etc.
Taking a quick look around we discover ....
https://apnews.com › article › national-debt-deficits-biden-economy-inflation-record-b4258704f830c7f6e9c5e693748216cb
US national debt hits record $34 trillion | AP News
2 Jan 2024 The U.S. Treasury has announced that the nation's gross national debt has surpassed $34 trillion. The record high comes after Republican lawmakers and the White House agreed to temporarily lift the nation's $31.4 trillion debt limit last year after the government ran up against its legal borrowing capacity and needed to implement "extraordinary measures" to avoid a default.
May I remind you......that you must have noticed:
I always check whatever I post for accurate information!
Why don't you make a search of your own and prove me wrong?
Three years ago I posted here , on this board, a very interesting article about the truth regarding the situation with American Bases in Germany, there, after the end of the Second world Take a look and when you manage to understand what is been written
Post subject: BERLIN IS WASHINGTON'S VASSAL UNTI 2099
https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=526312;topic=29563.150;last_msg=526312
US Army installations in Germany
Gerd-Helmut Komossa. in his book "DIE DEUTSCHE KARTE" The German Card, revealed the uncomfortable truth about the post-war conditions, dictated by the US and its allies to the defeated Germany.
Karte means both card and map in German but more than likely "DIE DEUTSCHE KARTE" means The German Map or The Map of Germany.
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mistake please delete. thanks