Russian, Ukrainian & FSU Information & Manosphere Discussion Forums
Information & Chat => Adventure Stories & Travel Reports => Topic started by: censu on December 17, 2010, 02:02:53 PM
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Well after what seems like many many months of chatting with Natalia in Moscow, I'm finally here. I think we started emailing in July. Various (now) unimportant reasons why it took 5 months to get here.
Anyway I arrived last night, cleared customs with no issue. Poor Natalia was waiting for an hour for me, but she looked very happy to see me, as I was to see her. She was surprised I recognized her which I found curious. Not like I've not studied her pics once or twice haha
She's very open and very touchy feely which surprised me (in a nice way) from many things I've read on here. She offered to carry a bag for me, that was really nice, naturally I said no. She remembered from a phone call a week before I wanted to stop for milk and bread and sure enough she took me to a 'soviet style' shop on the way home. She also saved me from possibly the worse night in Moscow possible. I decided before I left to exchange her phone number with my landlady. My landlady called her and basically told her she'd had a couple in the apartment that were staying for another night so wanted to put me in a diff apt for one night then move me into this one the following night. Natalia was having none of that and pushed her. Long story short, I got the apartment on schedule (and was completely oblivious to this whole thing until after I got to the apartment). Natalia and the landlady's daughter (who met us at the metro station) escorted me here and made sure I was all settled before they left. When you consider the alternative and not being able to speak/read/write Russian, it could have been the worse night of my life. Natalia was a blessing!
She also surprised me on the train with a beautiful guide book of Russia with a pull out map, both in English. She also produced a Russian sim card, paid for it herself and refused to take my money for it. Seems like (as I always suspected) a really nice person. I gave her 500 Rubles to get a train ticket, not having a clue how much it cost, she came back with both the ticket and change. I didn't do that as a test, I did it because as she says I'm a "lazy man" when it comes to studying Russian :laugh: but if ever I needed to test her, she has already passed with every action, not just that one.
Oh, and the poor gal has a terrible cold, been off work for days, but still came to meet me. She was home again today and I didn't get to see her, but it gave me time to explore my general area. I got a good 3-4 hour walk in (never do that in new boots, my feet are killing me, not to mention blisters!). It was only -12C/9F but I had a great sweat going. Found a local grocery store a few blocks away and bought a few things.
Met with the landlady today, she handled my registration for $50 and did EVERYTHING for me. I didn't even leave the apartment. What great service. In fact she was concerned from Natalia that I wasn't happy with the room, when in fact the confusion was nothing more than it's not the apartment from the pictures (it's bigger actually) and the Internet wasn't working (faulty coax cable, all fixed now). She was so concerned she brought Uncle Pasha along and they were prepared to make me happy with a few various options, as long as I make Natalia know to lay off with the phone calls haha. Great people.
So far my first impression of Moscow is great. Even found a Starbucks and watched the beautiful women come and go. Met a business man from Denmark and had a bit of a chat with him.
Will have more to report tomorrow and new pics.
If it's OK with the moderators I'll put links to my flickr page instead of loading the pics on here. If not, let me know and I'll manually add the photos. Just think this will help with not bogging down this site.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15122286@N04/sets/72157625492884323/with/5268780241/
C
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I hope you have a great trip 'C'. tiphat
Edit: BTW, we want to see photo's of people, not loaves of bread! :)
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Nice start:
Not sure I understand where/to you needed you and your lady to take a train to? Was this how you got from the airport to Moscow? I know there are various train stations from Moscow to all parts of Russia and beyond. Yes I have been on various ones in the both local and long distance.
Glad you are enjoying the stay to date. Of course looking forward to hearing more about the trip, but most of all wishing you a wonderful time while in the FSU and hope it all works out for you.
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Great pics brings back memories of my Apt off Novy Arbat by the lights of the Lotte building at night March 2010 ;)
Have a great trip and Happy Holidays to both you and Natalia - she seems like a wonderful lady...
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Update: Cuffy wants to see more pics of bread ....
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Update: Cuffy wants to see more pics of bread ....
Bread or "Bizcuits" especially with a little butter as in melt a little on em (slang in new jersey for hot butter melting chicks) is fine by me ... Yo Santa Vinneee where's the love Bro?
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Vinny wants to see the
ladies people. :chuckle: tiphat
Censu, I almost did a double take at your photos. At first glance in some respects the apartment almost looks like the one I first moved into upon my first full tour of Moscow. The front entry and the living room are almost identical in layout and wall paper. I had to get out some original photos to compare and then noticed the differences in the kitchen area especially. The balcony doors and windows off the "living room" are amazingly similar but of course those buildings were built in true "cookie cutter" style so lots of layouts across Moscow will be the same.
Do include some ladies for Vinny but please continue with photos of the surroundings, and of course more bread! Cuffy and I are old farts and at this stage in life food is an aphrodisiac. :chuckle:
I hope that you are having fun and thanks for starting your report!
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Yo Santa Vinneee where's the love Bro?
It'll be (hic) along in a (hic) minute.
Vinny wants to see the ladies people. :chuckle: tiphat
Ok, ok, ok! More bread pics please. :reading:
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That's odd, I replied with a post earlier and it's now showing, perhaps I forgot to hit post. It's been a long night. Never sleep well on my second night when there's a good time change involved.
Anyway, Natalia wants to meet me somewhere tomorrow to save time of her coming to the apartment first. But since I don't speak/read/write Russian (will correct that for next trip), anyone have any tips for a tourist in Moscow that needs to use the Metro?
Thanks
C
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If you got a PDA with you then I suggest getting the metro app.
I used it with an unlocked iphone when I toured EU last month. I was able to navigate thru 7 countries wiith it.
You should check if they cover the FSU before buying it.
http://www.nanika.net/metro/
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Censu, there is a handy RUA guide to the Moscow Metro here: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,9049.msg127584.html#msg127584
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My suggestions are:
1) get comfortable using trhe Moscow Metro as quickly as possible.
2) let me know if you and your ladyfriend need any connections of restaurants/clubs to go in the evening. I can make some good connections for you and possibly get you in to some places you might not be able to access on your own.
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In addition to Mendy's thread here's a latin alphabet map version.. they should be available at the metro stations - esp in the middle of Moscow
http://www.go-to.ru/en/support/img/mmap.gif
Keep the report coming and the links to flickr :popcorn:
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Moby, hope all is well. Happy New Year and Merry Christmas to you and your beautiful family!
Hope you don't mind if I link a more up-to-date Metro map here: http://engl.mosmetro.ru/flash/scheme01.html
If you'll notice up at the top (midway between lines number 9 and 6) there is a new(er) blue line extenion (M1) that is complete.
One of the quickest ways to determine whether a map is current is to check at the centre/left side: at line 4 you can see that the Park Pobedy extension (dark blue) is complete. Many online maps don't yet show this although this has been completed for quite some time.
Other additions: At the bottom/centre starting at lines number 6 and 9, and at the bottom/right lines 11 and 2 have new additions shown. Going back up along the centre/right you can see new stations at lines 7 and 9.
The beauty of this map is that the stations are listed in both Cyrillic and in English. And importantly, it is interactive: click on any originating station, then click on the destination station and presto, your exact route is shown in black along with the estimated time of travel.
http://engl.mosmetro.ru/flash/scheme01.html
Moby is of course right that maps are available at the Metro. You'll find a minimum of 3 per wagon (6 in newer wagons), and most stations have a tall "Information column" in the hall with a large map.
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Day 2, the good, the bad and the not so ugly.
Today was my 2nd full day here in Moscow and other than almost getting run over, twice, by the same cab, I had a great day.
OK, the good. I got to spend 6 hours with Natalia today and realized something very important. She has a quality that very few women have (for me), her smile puts me into a trance. There are times I don't hear what she says. I'm 43 and this has only happened a few times. It's a really good sign (from my perspective). We went somewhere that you'll likely recognize from my pics, but I can't remember the name, I believe it had an A sound in it, so how many places could it be right? (it's one stop past Red Square and there's a Hard Rock cafe there) :chuckle:
We had a lovely dinner at a Russian restaurant, I tried Borscht for the first time and much to my surprise, I really enjoyed it. We ordered a shot each of Samogon (did I get that right? home made Vodka). I also ordered a dish that she says was very Russian, but it was basically beef stew with Buckwheat, was really good. We had a great conversation, she's so refreshingly intelligent and great sense of humor. She was making a lot of eye contact and playing with her hair all the time. All the great things an observant guy wants to see.
We even casually talked about the future and the possibility of her visiting me in the US, which she instantly said yes to. I live in Virginia but told her about San Deigo and showed her pics and she really wants to go there. Jokingly she said we can start there and then move to Australia later (that comment will make sense soon, read on).
Toward the end of dinner she pulled out paper with schedule times for trains for how to get back to the airport on Thursday as she'll be working and I'll be flying solo. Then she turned it over and wrote down very detailed instructions on how to get to Red Square, The Armory, Diamond Fun, Pushkin museum and Tretyakov Gallery. Then after we left, she and I walked, arm in arm, to the metro and she then took me to each of these metro stations (for places mentioned above) and showed me where to exit, what end of the train to get on/off at. I was very impressed with her help. And she was not feeling good, her throat was really starting to hurt her again and she was fatigued.
The bad. She's still quite sick and missed much work over the past 2-3 months and as a result is always playing catch up and a 12 hour day is the norm, and weekends are frequent also. Her doctor told her that her immune system is weak and she really needs to find a warmer climate to move to. She's been interested in and visited Australia and wants to move there. In fact over a year ago, long before we started chatting she started the paper work to move there. I have nothing but respect for her taking the lead on that. FYI, I've lived in 3 countries and Australia has always been next on my list so it's anything but a deal breaker should we get that far.
She went into work briefly today and is working tomorrow from home, so I won't be seeing her tomorrow. Monday is unlikely also. We have Opera tickets for Tuesday (which she made a point of thanking me for, very nice and respectful lady). Then we'll also see each other Wednesday night, my last night here.
I went to kiss her tonight for the first time, twice actually. Both times I got check but she also kissed my cheek. I put it down to her cold and thought nothing more of it. However, when I got back to my apartment I started to think about it. I also had to call her as someone had been in my apartment during the day without my knowledge and that startled me. I'll go more into that in a bit. Anyway, when we spoke I said, hey I don't want to risk anything here by crossing any boundaries with cultural differences , but was the cheek thing just your cold or is that a Russian tradition. She said it was mostly cold, but also that my mustache would hurt her lips (for real!?!?!?). I said then we have a problem as I'm not shaving it. It's part of who I am. I also said I think it's unfair that I'd have to change myself for you. She said that's not so. I said basically it is, if I want to kiss you then I'll have to shave. To her credit she said next time she'll try. I've never heard of that being a problem before.
My apartment invasion. Turns out my landlady had one of her people show the apartment as it's for sale. She had Uncle Pasha call me but I didn't notice he called till many hours later. Ha, I only knew one person in Moscow and was having dinner with her so wasn't really paying attention to my phone. Natalia was very angry about this and offered to hold my money for me but I declined as I'm not certain when we'll see each other. She called back 5 min later and suggested I change the lock or get a locker at the train station to put my valuables in. Another admirable trait from her.
So I ask you, is she just being a great and gracious host (which I heard is very common for Russians, to be great hosts) or is she interested. Now I'm left with the dilemma, do I say nothing and enjoy our time together, or do I tell her whats on my mind. That I haven't driven over from the next town, I've flown 17 hours to get here and really feel like I'm being cheated in some way. Let me clear that by saying, she's not cheating on me, I have complete confidence and trust in her. I also know she's been ill and balancing things as best she can, but it's bothering me that it's at best every other day I'm seeing her. She did tell me at dinner she felt it was a pity she can't spend more time with me. I really have had no Red flags with her, but is this normal behavior or should I be concerned? The corker of it is, tonight was the first night I truly felt I could fall for her. Until now she's been virtual and mysterious, tonight I feel the initial connection truly bonded.
The not so ugly. How is it possible there are so many good looking women here. I've heard it but didn't believe it. Tonight I was chatting with Nat over dinner thinking how beautiful she is and how electrifying her smile is and this women walked by that almost made me lose my religion. I then look back at Nat and think, dam (Nat) you're beautiful. On the metro home (we went separate ways, she cut the cord so speak with me and Moscow metro, tomorrow I'll put my big boy pants on and try it for myself. Anyway, I was trying hard not to get whip lash looking at all the beautiful women. There were 3 standing next to me that could all have been top end models, unreal!
Anyway, here are some pics I took today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15122286@N04/5271620845/in/photostream/
C
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Moby is of course right that maps are available at the Metro. You'll find a minimum of 3 per wagon (6 in newer wagons), and most stations have a tall "Information column" in the hall with a large map.
It's the crossovers from line to line that tend to be the most confusing for neophytes to Moscow Metro travel.
Once you get the hang of that, you'll discover that it is the most efficient, quickest and least expensive way to get around Moscow.
The "commies" didn't get much right, but they absolutely "nailed" the concept of efficient and clean public transportation.
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OK, the good. I got to spend 6 hours with Natalia today and realized something very important. She has a quality that very few women have (for me), her smile puts me into a trance. There are times I don't hear what she says. I'm 43 and this has only happened a few times. It's a really good sign (from my perspective). We went somewhere that you'll likely recognize from my pics, but I can't remember the name, I believe it had an A sound in it, so how many places could it be right? (it's one stop past Red Square and there's a Hard Rock cafe there) :chuckle:
Perhaps "Arbat"?
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I went to kiss her tonight for the first time, twice actually. Both times I got check but she also kissed my cheek. I put it down to her cold and thought nothing more of it. However, when I got back to my apartment I started to think about it. I also had to call her as someone had been in my apartment during the day without my knowledge and that startled me. I'll go more into that in a bit. Anyway, when we spoke I said, hey I don't want to risk anything here by crossing any boundaries with cultural differences , but was the cheek thing just your cold or is that a Russian tradition. She said it was mostly cold, but also that my mustache would hurt her lips (for real!?!?!?). I said then we have a problem as I'm not shaving it. It's part of who I am. I also said I think it's unfair that I'd have to change myself for you. She said that's not so. I said basically it is, if I want to kiss you then I'll have to shave. To her credit she said next time she'll try. I've never heard of that being a problem before.
She's sick so I'm guessing her refusal to return an intimate kiss had much to do with that fact.
Facial hair is not as common amongst younger men in Russia as it is in the USA. If you really like this girl, I'd invest in a razor.
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Yes I believe she said Arbat, thank you!.
I'm off to bed, off to Red Square tomorrow, will be doing a lot of walking so need some shut eye.
So far, Natalia or not, I'm loving Moscow, but she's certainly the Cherry on the ice-ing :ROFL:
C
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....tomorrow I'll put my big boy pants on and try it for myself. Anyway, I was trying hard not to get whip lash looking at all the beautiful women. There were 3 standing next to me that could all have been top end models, unreal!
If you are interested, I could put you in touch with a couple of my American Moscow-ex-pat buddies. They'd be glad to entertain a first-time visitor to Moscow and I bet you'd enjoy spending a few hours with some smiling faces that spoke your language.
If you'd like for me to help set something up for you, get in touch with me by PM as soon as possible.
For Sunday Brunch, I highly recommend La Cantina Restaurant on Tverskaya (1/2 block north of the Ritz Carelton and on the same side of the street). It's about a 200m walk from the Teatrainaya Station on the Red Line. They have a Sunday Brunch Special for 550pyb that is absolutely fantastic. I'm assuming you like Mexican food.
During my first Moscow visit back in 1997, I had a meal at this same place.
What is the closest Metro Station to your apartment?
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I'm off to bed, off to Red Square tomorrow, will be doing a lot of walking so need some shut eye.
The Mexican Restaurant I described in my previous post is less than a 500m walk from the northern entrance to Red Square. That is the opposite entrance from St Baisils Cathedreal.
Keep your wallet in a front pocket while in Moscow.
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Well it's 3:30am and I still haven't adapted to the time diff.
Anyway, the closest station to me is Bellarusskaya but I worked over to the Starbucks yesterday at Vasil'evskaya and tverskaya so I know the general area. The brunch thing sounds like fun, is it Russian fair? Trying to go as Russian as possible here. If not, then the Mexican place at the square sounds good too, assuming the menus are in English also.
As for hooking me up with ex pats, sure, I'll email you my cell. I'm having dinner with a woman named Elena on Monday, she's a friend of a friend of a friend back in the US. Nothing romantic but she's been very helpful via emails. I told Natalia about her tonight actually and invited her along. She told me to go by myself. I told her not to worry, told her I was only interested in her and had no idea what this person looked like and might be 80, but she replied, she might be 20 and beautiful. That's when I realized my good intentions bit me in the ass. I invited her again but no dice.
Any suggestions for time/cost saving at Red Square tomorrow? I also want to buy some matryoshka doll's for friends back in the US. It's there a market around there where they are cheaper?
Thanks
C
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Anyway, the closest station to me is Bellarusskaya but I worked over to the Starbucks yesterday at Vasil'evskaya and tverskaya so I know the general area. The brunch thing sounds like fun, is it Russian fair? Trying to go as Russian as possible here. If not, then the Mexican place at the square sounds good too, assuming the menus are in English also.
The Mexican Restaurant (La Cantina) definitely has English menus. I think the Special is available until 2pm.
Belorusskaya is a very convenient location. Take the Green line 2 stations to the Tverskyaya stop and walk about 1/2 mile down the hill to Red Square. LaCantina will be on the right side of the road just before you get to the Ritz Carelton.
As for hooking me up with ex pats, sure, I'll email you my cell.
Great. I'll look for your PM.
Any suggestions for time/cost saving at Red Square tomorrow? I also want to buy some matryoshka doll's for friends back in the US. It's there a market around there where they are cheaper?
Most expensive at the airport. There will be sellers in kiosks on Red Square and Arbat. It's been years since I've tried to purchase such items but last time I did the sellers were always open to "negotiate" the price. Assume you can pay at least 33% less than what they post as the selling price. Not sure this goes for shops and stores. Your ladyfriend on Monday or Wednesday can be quite helpful to you in this regard.
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We went somewhere that you'll likely recognize from my pics, but I can't remember the name, I believe it had an A sound in it, so how many places could it be right? (it's one stop past Red Square and there's a Hard Rock cafe there)
From your photos it was definitely Arbat. You even got a photo of Pushkin's house on old Arbat in your photos!
I thought you might be near Belorusskaya Metro judging on the style of the apartment. You are also close to Mendeleyevskaya.
Don't buy souvenirs around Red Square. You passed lots of kiosks and shops with plenty as you walked Arbat. Better to go back there as the street shops will have nicer quality. The best souvenir prices from where you are is the Izmalovo market. Just 30 minutes from you by Metro, go south to the centre and at the Plaza of the Revolution get on the Arbat line (blue #3) east/northeast. Get off at the Izmalovskay stop and walk to the market.
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I love the pictures! I believe the monument is dedicated to Georgia. Is it near a really funky looking supermarket?
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I don't recall a funky supermarket. I did show the picture to Nat and she said she's not familiar with that monument.
Which house is Pushkins?
The market you described, is this the one I've read about in magazines?
Looks like it's 25F with the wind feels like 15F, it's a heat wave!
C
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Which house is Pushkins?
This one, #53 Arbat, one of the most famous addresses on Old Arbat.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15122286@N04/5272219704/in/photostream/
I believe that you may benefit from two RUA guides.
- RUA Guide to Arbat: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=12015.0
- RUA Guide to Red Square and the Kremlin: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=12016.0
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She said it was mostly cold, but also that my mustache would hurt her lips (for real!?!?!?). I said then we have a problem as I'm not shaving it. It's part of who I am. I also said I think it's unfair that I'd have to change myself for you. She said that's not so. I said basically it is, if I want to kiss you then I'll have to shave. To her credit she said next time she'll try. I've never heard of that being a problem before.
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I agree with Shakey, get shaving quick. Super photo's, thanks for sharing them.
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Don't want to create a sh@t storm, but no, shaving is not likely to happen. We've been talking for almost 6 months, she's seen pics from before then and all the way thru till now so she knew what she was getting. I think she'll come around. If not then we'll chat and see what kind of compromise can be reached, and remember, a true compromise is not me simply shaving and her now conceding something!
Anyway, on that note, my pity party from last night (was soooo tired) is over. Please disregard me rant. She's a great gal and quite sick and I'm just sorry she's not well and hope she recovers soon. She's still finding time and energy for me, that speaks volumes. Poor thing is in bed with a fever today.
Anyway I'm back to me again and everything is good. Although only got 4 hours sleep last night as well! Off to bed real soon.
On to the trip update.
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Day 3 in Moscow done and mucho pics to show you guys, there are even a few gratuitous pics in there for some passing women! (my fav pics are 830 and 881)
Today Nat was home sick and while she planned on working at home, she was too weak to even do that. Poor thing. We spoke several times and her spirits are high overall. I cannot say enough good things about this gal. In a way it was good she wasn't with me today because when I entered Red Square it was almost magical and I'm sure I'd have been one of those statistics that went to Russia, feel in love and never came home, but we'll get to that in a min.
So third night here and was awake till 6am. There's a local woman that shovels snow on the street and like clock work 5:30am each morn she's out there. Being the lite sleeper I am, I have to wait till she's done if I'm not already asleep. I managed to pull myself out of bed by 11 and was on the road by noon 30. I decided that since it was a balmy 25F to walk to Red Square (have to send an email of thanks to my landlady, she new I wanted to be close the Red Square and the apt she originally rented me was sold, so she put me in a closer one for the same price. If you need her contact info PM me, very reputable).
I walked down to Red Square general area and was so so impressed, not realizing until later that I missed the main entrance and ended up by the armory, which was on my list anyway. So I got tickets for both the armory and the diamond fund. Enjoyed both, but being the ONLY single person in there I really felt like a communal third wheel. Anyway, it was fun. When I came out it was dusk. I walked around to Red Square area and found some market stalls and bartered with a guy for some dolls and got a deal on 4 of them. Then turned around to go to Red Square. My first image was of pic 830. It's almost magical, unbelievably beautiful. I walked up the hill and saw all the lights, the biggest xmas tree in Moscow. Well you couldn't wipe the smile off my face if you tried. I walked around, took a tons of pics and my hands were really cold, first time since being here. I don't wear gloves, my hands stay naturally warm. But holding the cold camera just about killed me. Then I walked into the 'gum' mall. What an impressive establishment.
For the record, I now officially love Moscow. I told Nat this and she just laughed. She's so worried I'm not having a good time because she can't spend time with me. Bless her heart. I can't tell you how many times she's appologized to me for her being sick. I keep telling her it's not her fault and that if she invites me back I will gladly come, her response was simply "yes, definitely!". Shortly after she admitted to me she feels like she's known me for many years, which I take as a huge compliment and told her so. In fact I told her when she was on my arm walking down Arbat, it felt very natural, like we had been doing it for years.
By her not being around to hold my hand, this 'lazy man' has been really working on the written word and picking out more and more letters in words, so it's a good start.
Oh, as I left RQ I found La Cantina and had a great meal there. A little pricey, but given it's location it's to be expected. But it was great, thanks for the recommendation.
A good friend of mine only goes for Asian women, he calls it 'yellow fever', I have the equiv now, is there a term like Rusky fever that gets passed around on here? I have no issues dating in my own country, in fact it's very easy, but Nat has some special, which is all I could have hoped for, oh and I didn't even see her today. what's up with that!
Anyway, here are the pics, enjoy.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15122286@N04/sets/72157625631531466/with/5274582312/
Thanks for all your input guys! Keep it coming. I'm heading to England on the 23rd and if they keep getting crappy weather, I might be in Moscow longer!
C
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Facial hair is going out of style, best shave now :)
Censu, she might "compromise" but, she will never forget/forgive you for having to do it. If keeping the hair is a big deal to you, you ought to find someone else,.. the issue will not go away.
I hope that she is feeling better soon.
Edited to add: I'm really loving the pics, you have more than a few that are outstanding (and make me miss Moscow).
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She said it was mostly cold, but also that my mustache would hurt her lips (for real!?!?!?). I said then we have a problem as I'm not shaving it. It's part of who I am. I also said I think it's unfair that I'd have to change myself for you. She said that's not so. I said basically it is, if I want to kiss you then I'll have to shave. To her credit she said next time she'll try. I've never heard of that being a problem before.
You think shaving is a big deal? Do you think asking her to live in the US, and leave her homeland, and adapt to a strange culture, strange food and another language might be her changing for you? Maybe just a little? You refusing to lose the furry face may be seen by her as an example of your likely future intractability on similar minor issues.
As others have said, the facial hair is not popular there; I know it is in the US but you ain't there any more. It makes you look old in the women's eyes. As most men are seeking younger women, its like trumpeting the age difference.
I suspect you will be shaving if you want this to go anywhere long term.
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You think shaving is a big deal? Do you think asking her to live in the US, and leave her homeland, and adapt to a strange culture, strange food and another language might be her changing for you? Maybe just a little?
Very good point Manny. tiphat
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Manny, you make a good point or two. However, lets not forget she started paperwork to go live in Australia before I even knew her, so the idea of moving to another country, giving everything up etc etc is something she's thought about and is preparing to do regardless of the man (or lack of) in her life.
As you so cleverly put, there is more than 1 side to a story. While my shaving is not an impossibility, it will not be happening any time soon.
Truth is, most any action could be mistaken for something else if we allowed it. Like I said, if it becomes a serious issue with her, we'll talk about it and reach a compromise. Until then, it stays! :dh:
C
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Thanks for sharing the pictures, it brings back some good memories from the few times I was in Moscow over the holiday season, but count your blessings because if downright tropical compared to the times I was during this time of year. Also, I had to smile at your pics of Gum as you probably just missed walking past my girlfriend as she was there shopping earlier in the day for my New Years present.
Also, thanks for being brave enough to include a few pics of yourself, now we know what Nat is complaining about. :chuckle: :laugh:
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No worries, Nat knows I'm know movie star, but she knows I try and take care of myself and am an honorable man. Showing you guys pics of myself is my way of telling you all I have nothing to hide.
Hearing her say things like "I feel like we've known each other for years" speaks volumes in my books. I have a friend that's met with his Russian women several times, they are talking about marriage etc, and she still can't open up to him. Nat is very open and puts her cards on the table, you have to admire and respect that.
C
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No worries, Nat knows I'm know movie star, but she knows I try and take care of myself and am an honorable man. Showing you guys pics of myself is my way of telling you all I have nothing to hide.
Hearing her say things like "I feel like we've known each other for years" speaks volumes in my books. I have a friend that's met with his Russian women several times, they are talking about marriage etc, and she still can't open up to him. Nat is very open and puts her cards on the table, you have to admire and respect that.
C
Censu,
My comment was just having a little fun with everyone commenting on your facial hair, which btw is between you and Nat if you ever shave. Remember what they always say, people need to accept us for who we are and if that's part of your personality, then I give you credit for sticking to your position.
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I couldn't agree more. The only two opinions that matter are mine and hers. And yes, I know you were having fun. I think the whole thing is fun actually. It's good we have time to 'waste' on my facial hair. Who knew it would be the center of so much attention :chuckle:
I was just laying in bed, not being able to sleep once again. (I did sleep for 90 min then a snow plow woke me and been awake since). Natalia, Russia, the distance, the time, the cost etc, all started flooding my head. I started think about when I could next come, how much I'd need etc etc. Unfortunately that means I couldn't sleep because I become excited about it. Then there's another part that realizes now the real challenge begins. Until this trip it was 'virtual', now it's real. Now we are in the beginning stages of courting. Thankfully there are no trust issues/red flags on either side, plus we've spoken at length about our philosophical views to dating/relationship/courting etc and are both on the same page.
I've done many hard things in my life, I suspect this may be the next!
C
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Thankfully there are no trust issues/red flags on either side...
There is a very large chance that you have shot yourself in the foot with that ill-advised dinner with Lena.
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There is a very large chance that you have shot yourself in the foot with that ill-advised dinner with Lena.
Agreed. Phone/email conversations aside, you're just now getting to really know each other. It might have been much better to explain that Elena was a friend of a friend and to have then asked Nataliya's assistance in planning a simple meeting/lunch prior to the day of the dinner. There is no way, invitation or not, that she'd have gone along on such short notice with no forewarning.
Great photos!
I'm with Manny and others on the beard. There is no such thing as compromise in marriage, but there is leadership which for men often means doing things they don't normally wish to do for the family. Women do this too, we men are often blind to the things they give up and don't always recognize the sacrifices they make. 50/50 works well in a divorce settlement but not in building a healthy marriage.
Censu, you might also wish to ponder the meaning behind a beard in Slavic culture. It is generally taken on for religious purposes or for the purpose of claiming wisdom. You'll notice that all Russian priests, bishop, patriarchs, and monks have beards. That is no accident and in fact for most clergy it's required. The word "stary" (old) is also associated with elders who have great wisdom. The first thing in such an old man's daily "uniform" is a full beard. The second common trait of the men who wear those beards is celibacy.
There may be more psychological/image issues present than simply just hair in her mouth when kissing you. It doesn't matter whether or not she is "religious" as its also cultural. Who knows? Regardless of how she answers you when asked, she may struggle with the image of intimacy with a bearded man for reasons other than you are accustomed.
(As with all such advice, percentages vary, offer ends at midnight, not all patients experience the same result, use as directed, proceed with caution, call your doctor in case of abnormal bleeding, etc, etc.)
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As it happens, I had a beard for many years and still had it when I met Irina. By the time I returned for the month in which we married, I had shaved it off--and Irina complained about "what had happened to the man she fell in love with?"
I can tell you, though, that Nat's worry about making her lips sore is not just theoretical. It can and does happen in many cases when kisses become somewhat passionate. I say this from a certain amount of personal experience, by the way.
The down side to beards and mustaches is that they often make the wearer appear much older. If there is already an age gap, this may not be an inconsiderable factor either.
David
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David, thanks for the input. I've had a number of women complain also when I've removed my gotee in the past and many more tell me they like kissing me with it. Maybe it's my gotee conditioner :laugh: But as before, I'm done beating this horse.
TomT, I actually laughed when I read your post last night. You're a smart guy but always a half full kinda guy (sorry, don't mean to offend). I knew it would create a stir and that's fine.
Here's the deal. I have a very strong set of morals and ethics, women in the past have told me many times that I'm not like most men in that regard (that's what I was told, I NEVER SAID THAT ABOUT MYSELF). I say what I mean and mean what I say, always. Telling Natalia about a completely platonic friend of a friend from the US was nothing more than full disclosure. Besides, better she know now than down the road I say something casually about it and then have to explain the secrecy, bad mojo there!
So if Natalia has a little issue with this we can talk about it and work something out (that's a healthy relationship). If she has a big problem with it, then Natalia is not the woman for me. Yes, that's right, I said if she has a big problem with it she is not the woman for me. I think she's great and think we have real potential, but I will not walk on egg shells around any woman (or man) when it comes to my friends. It comes down to trust and she already knows she can trust me and in time that will only get better. If she wanted to go out with a man I would trust her (doesn't matter if she would or wouldn't, I would trust her).
Bottom line, every person and situation is different and the general feeling might be I made a mistake here, even a close friend of mine feels the same way (that I made a mistake). I also sensed it wasn't received that well when I told her, but given a do over I'd do it again. As I explained to Nat, she's a friend of a friend from the US who offered her help if I get into a situation I need help. A back up translator if you will.
In closing, if Nat has a problem I am more than willing to talk with her about it. If it's a problem she can't deal with, it's time to start fishing in a different pond. I know some of you might think I'm an ahole after reading this. But I know I did the right thing. How it's received will clearly be the interesting part and lets face it. It's better to test the waters early before to much time, effort and money has been invested.
OK, I'm ready for the onslaught!
C
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In closing, if Nat has a problem I am more than willing to talk with her about it. If it's a problem she can't deal with, it's time to start fishing in a different pond. I know some of you might think I'm an ahole after reading this. But I know I did the right thing. How it's received will clearly be the interesting part and lets face it. It's better to test the waters early before to much time, effort and money has been invested.
OK, I'm ready for the onslaught!
No onslaught from this direction, it all comes down to your personal decision making and whatever method you decide to use to weed out those who don't cut the mustard in the race to be "Mrs Censu"!
Good luck to you tiphat
Interesting to see that certain members of the board are now offering male personal grooming tips as well :)
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Bruce :party0031: :laugh:
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Day 4 for Moscow.
It's 3pm here and I've not left the apartment. My sleep has been so bad that I didn't sleep till 7am local time and didn't wake till 1 today. I've decided to make today a rest day. Since I'll be coming back to Moscow there's no need to kill myself getting everything done in 7 days.
I did bring some work along and will take care of that in a while and just relax.
Later I should be having dinner with Elena and will take my camera along and will give an update, but I fear today will be not very exciting.
Spoke with Nat today and she's at work. Has a temp of 38 (should be 36.6) and feels like crap. To add insult to injury she has a tooth ache. Got a lovely email from her this morning also, which would DISPEL ALL NAYSAYERS on here.
Thinking of taking my laptop to Starbucks, do they have wifi here at them? Is it free (unlikely I know, it's Moscow!)
C
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Wifi at the Moscow Starbucks is free, even at the one in SVO (located by the train station).
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TomT, I actually laughed when I read your post last night. You're a smart guy but always a half full kinda guy (sorry, don't mean to offend). I knew it would create a stir and that's fine.
Don't worry about it. If you think that Natalia bought that tired just-a-friend story then bon appetit. If I were in your shoes, I would be in her flat taking care of her (even if it is only symbolic). It's your call, though, and you will reap what you sow.
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TomT, you see this is the problem when you only have limited information (such as writing on forums like this). This is my first trip here. She lives with her parents and so until my second trip I will not be seeing where she lives so that's not an option. Couple that with the fact that she has to work today and will be there till 10 or 11 tonight it's simply not going to happen. Trust me, if the option was on the table I'd be there in a heart beat, that's a no brainer.
As for buying my story. There's nothing to buy. Elena could be 20, she could be 70, she could be married, she could be single, she could be 3 feet tall, she could smoke (don't date smokers), she could be many things, I don't know, I don't care, I've never asked and never seen a picture of her, as I have no interest in her. She could be a super model, wouldn't matter. Natalia is the one I'm interested in, and she knows it.
I appreciate your input, but it's unfair of me to think you can give good constructive advice or even opinions with only tiny pieces of the story.
If you look for problems around every corner, guess what you'll find? Me, I don't think that way and I believe Natalia is the same.
C
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I hope that you're right. It wouldn't be the first time that a relationship goes south because of something that is legitimately innocent, though. (It's happened to me and it's happened to plenty of others.) The hard lesson that I learned was to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.
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Elena could be 20, she could be 70, she could be married, she could be single, she could be 3 feet tall, she could smoke (don't date smokers), she could be many things, I don't know, I don't care, I've never asked and never seen a picture of her, as I have no interest in her. She could be a super model, wouldn't matter. Natalia is the one I'm interested in, and she knows it.
I do hope she’s not a chain smoking geriatric midget who has her ex accompany her everywhere. That would be unfair, and more expensive.
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I said then we have a problem as I'm not shaving it. It's part of who I am. I also said I think it's unfair that I'd have to change myself for you.
Just to :dh: a little more.
I'm not sure how serious you are about the above comment but assuming you are I'll say this; facial hair is just that, hair. If your self image is so dependant on a little hair I think you should get some perspective or see a therapist. The reason so many posts have focused on this is that your uncompromising (and yes, it does sound like you're very uncompromising) attitude about a bit of facial fluff directed at a woman that you may eventually consider spending the rest of your life with seems out of proportion.
I also think you are in for a world of surprises if you think that what she would be giving up and committing to by coming to the US to be with you is anything like the "commitment" to have a shave. :ROFL: Yes, belittle her future decision by saying she's thought about going to live somewhere else but dude, thought is one thing, doing is another thing entirely.
Seriously, I hope it works out for you but have a shave; it's not even a very nice beard as beards go.
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To say I am belittling her decision is a bit harsh, but you are entitled to your opinion. And yes, thinking and doing are completely different. However, 1, She's already started the paperwork (not just thinking) for Australia before we met. 2, She decided to look for someone in another country, 3, she picked a guy with a gotee, 4, my gotee did indeed need a trim. Did it today actually. Now it's lovely and tidy and very soft! 5, she's already selling me the virtues of moving to Aus with her so I can sail all year round... hhmmm interesting!
I also find it humorous how I'm the one being uncompromising, yet she gets a free pass. Very interesting!
Perhaps if more men looking for women in the FSU were to cherish them, but treat them with respect and honor vs treating them like they should be in the special Olympics, more would be successful. But what do I know.
All I know is she wants me to come back when the weathers nicer and she'll be healthy, but then she quickly throws in, but that's too long to wait.
Lets face it people, if my gotee is the worst issue on the table, we're doing pretty dam good. haha
and congrats, you got me to speak more about it, I'm sooooo uncompromising haha
C
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I also find it humorous how I'm the one being uncompromising, yet she gets a free pass. Very interesting!
It's because she's a female and you aren't. I wish it wasn't like that but it is. :(
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To say I am belittling her decision is a bit harsh, but you are entitled to your opinion. And yes, thinking and doing are completely different. However, 1, She's already started the paperwork (not just thinking) for Australia before we met. 2, She decided to look for someone in another country, 3, she picked a guy with a gotee, 4, my gotee did indeed need a trim. Did it today actually. Now it's lovely and tidy and very soft! 5, she's already selling me the virtues of moving to Aus with her so I can sail all year round... hhmmm interesting!
I also find it humorous how I'm the one being uncompromising, yet she gets a free pass. Very interesting!
No. If she had a beard that you didn't like and she refused to remove it I'd say the same about her. ;D
On the scale of things, hair vs lifetime partner, there's no comparison. The fact that you made such a big deal out of it ("It's a part of who I am") makes that a big deal as it gives some insight into how perhaps you will react to other things in the future (as was pointed out to you). One of the problems a lot of people have as they hit 40 and above is that they become inflexible and intractable and maintaining new relationships becomes more difficult because some are less able to change and adapt. Surprise your woman and have a shave, I'm sure she'll be most appreciative. After all, if it doesn't work out you can always grow it again.
Perhaps if more men looking for women in the FSU were to cherish them, but treat them with respect and honor vs treating them like they should be in the special Olympics, more would be successful. But what do I know.
Seems like you dismissed her opinion about your beard out of hand with a lot of bluster and excuses. What it boils down to is that you want it and she doesn't. If a beard is more important to you than a lifetime partner you probably should stop looking now and I'm guessing that similar thoughts about that exchange passed through her head too.
All I know is she wants me to come back when the weathers nicer and she'll be healthy, but then she quickly throws in, but that's too long to wait.
Lets face it people, if my gotee is the worst issue on the table, we're doing pretty dam good. haha
and congrats, you got me to speak more about it, I'm sooooo uncompromising haha
C
Again, it's not the beard but your reaction to her request that is telling.
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However, 1, She's already started the paperwork (not just thinking) for Australia before we met.
Does this mean that she had decided she was moving to Oz before you arrived, or she was moving to Oz with YOU before you arrived?
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However, 1, She's already started the paperwork (not just thinking) for Australia before we met.
Does this mean that she had decided she was moving to Oz before you arrived, or she was moving to Oz with YOU before you arrived?
I know for people in FSU countries, immigrant visas to Canada are extremely difficult to get and take quite a bit of time. Aren't immigrant visas to Oz almost impossible to get? How long did it take Belle to get her Canadian immigration visa? Years, right?
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I started a facial hair thread here with poll questions so as to not detract from
this trip report.
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=13204.0
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However, 1, She's already started the paperwork (not just thinking) for Australia before we met.
Does this mean that she had decided she was moving to Oz before you arrived, or she was moving to Oz with YOU before you arrived?
I know for people in FSU countries, immigrant visas to Canada are extremely difficult to get and take quite a bit of time. Aren't immigrant visas to Oz almost impossible to get? How long did it take Belle to get her Canadian immigration visa? Years, right?
Depends on whether you are counting preparation or just the Visa itself. Preparation for applying could vary according to the person(s) who wishes to immigrate. The actual fully completed application for the Visa itself, from start to finish is roughly six months. Seems to be about the same whether it is a FSU one, or from somewhere else. tiphat
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Ade, clearly you are a smart man and I'm a little surprised you've missed my subtle point if you've read all my posts here. But to put this to bed once and for all (thank you 2TallBill) I will use your example and hope my point comes across.
If Natalia had a beard (thank you by the way, I had a good laugh) I would NOT ask her to shave it off. If I saw her profile pictures and there was a beard, I would not have communicated with her in the first place. See how simple that is? Not to mention I wouldn't actually be in Moscow in the first place if she had a beard :laugh:
Regardless of anyones thoughts on this, I will not be responding to anymore posts regarding the beard. Sorry, but it's become rather tedious.
OK, regarding the immigration. I know a little about it as I'm a Brit. I emigrated to Canada in 88 and then to the US in 97. For Australia and the type of visa she's trying to get (by the way, the Aussies are screaming for certain professions right now, especially skilled tradesmen), I believe it's a 3 stage deal with her. She's done the initial paperwork and has either taken the first test or waiting to take it. I believe the first stage is roughly a year. This is what I can remember from what she's told me and may not be entirely accurate.
We talked about it over dinner the other night and since I have her in love with San Diego already, and her doctor tells her she needs a better climate if she's to stand a chance of staying healthy, she's very keen to move somewhere without harsh winters. We also talked about her state of mind for moving to another country and once again she impressed me with her openness and honesty telling me that 5 years ago she couldn't conceive leaving her family behind, but now she's OK with it. Anyway, I said, you know if we reach that stage, it would be easier for us to get you to the US first. She had a big smile (that totally melts me) and said, "OK, San Diego first, then Australia later, you can yacht all year round there and you said San Diego would be easier". Gotta love that direct logic and the way she says San Diego is beyond sexy. It also never stops amazing me how she seems to remember just about every conversation we've ever had and keeps bringing stuff up. A special woman indeed.
C
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Censu is doing an excellent job with a trip report that is "live and local" with reports coming in as the trip progresses. tiphat
The portion on Australian visas has been moved here (http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=13207.msg189817#new) so that Censu can continue from Moscow, yet the Australian visa topic seems to have enough interest to have it's own thread.
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OK guys and dolls. Today is day something or other. Probably 6. Once again I had trouble sleeping and was up till 5, finally passed out and was up at 11. I intended to hit the Kremlin but once I got within 200 meters of Starbucks I lost the battle and spent two hours there.
I get in and fire up the laptop and boom, there's Starbucks 'free' wifi. The page is in Russian, which I don't read. I see a button for English, bingo, I'm in business. Or so I thought. It turns the first page into English, every other page is still Russian with no option for English. All I could make out was a login and password but couldn't figure out how to create a free account. Couldn't even figure out the paid account. Next visit to Moscow I will be somewhat proficient with Russian, I really let myself down for this trip. I now know what it must feel like to be illiterate. Thankfully I had some media to watch along with a million hot Russian women. I never thought I'd get tired of looking at beautiful women, and I didn't! but the thought did cross my mind "enough with the hotties already!" I'll see a priest when I get back and get that excised from me.
I came back to the apartment and tried to get a nap. Now explain how the f-ing snowploughs know when I'm on the edge of sleeping? These guy have the skill to land a man'd craft on mars I swear.
I got a lovely longer email from Nat today asking about my (last) night, my day and how did it go with Elena. That part was in the middle and very upbeat. So I told her the truth. I said "I was really tired, spoke with Elena and told her I could not meet her". That was it, short and sweet and I'm guessing that Nat never had a 'serious' problem with it anyway, but I think that response completely puts it to bed in her mind. No silly excuses, nothing. I'd rather rest than meet with this woman, speaks volumes I think. Truth be told, I did it because I was dog tired, not to appease Nat.
Anyway, I wake up, take a shower and get ready for the Opera. I called Nat from outside the station with a question she felt was stupid and I really felt like she scolded me. I was not impressed. I get to the arranged meeting point 20 min early. She gets there 15 min late, so I'm a little bothered by this. Couple this with my fatigue, well it didn't take long for Nat to notice and say something. (side bar, are these Russian women always so open and direct? it's refreshing). We are in the Opera and she says "zis mood, I don't like it, smile" and I just look at her so then she starts trying to tickle me to get a reaction. Anyway, long story short, it didn't take being in her company for too long and that smile of hers for my mood to lift.
The Opera was a pleasant surprise. I'd never been and had worked myself up to a point where I'd knew I'd hate it. Going in with low expectations what best. Nat has seen many and said it was good but not great. But for me it was great. We both agreed the first act was so so, but it came to life in the second act and I really enjoyed it. Question. What's with the clapping in time for applause? I thought I was in Nazi Germany or something.
Oh another direct thing. I take my coat off and have a really nice tie and shirt on. But they didn't really go together (shirt was striped). I was going to wear a diff shirt but went with the back up. Problem is the tie was wrong for it. Within 30 seconds of taking my coat off she says, "you like this tie" I said yes, she said "you think it goes with this shirt" I said, not really, it does have matching colors but that's all. She agreed and said they don't go together. I told her I only wore the tie because I felt it was expected at the Opera. She said no. After, we went for dinner and I dumped the tie and twice she said, this shirt looks good now. (side bar, we are coming back thru the metro and there's a guy with a tie and shirt that doesn't match. She points it out, starts laughing and says "same as you, so I proceeded to cover her mouth so she couldn't talk and she just wouldn't stop laughing.)
Dinner was great for many different reasons. She took me to this great Italian place and she said "on the weekend you can't get a seat here because it's so good and so cheap". Not once has she tried to upgrade anything about this trip, nothing but respect for this woman. She knows I run my own business and she knows the economy has hit me hard and she knows I'm bouncing back, but never once have we discussed numbers, nor would I till she was my wife (if that were to happen).
Anyway we talk about many different things and she gets into xmas and birthdays and was asking me about them. I told her I think xmas is great for kids but I prefer just getting together with friends and family any time of the year, not just xmas. She understood and semi agreed. She said what about your birthday. I said I tend to take that as a time of reflection "what, you spend it alone". I said some times, if I have someone special then no, but otherwise, sometimes yes. i don't like to bother my friends with it". What happened next really surprised me. She said that's terrible and her eyes started welling up. I said what's going on and for the next few minutes she couldn't find the English words and was fighting back the tears. I gather she hated that I spend any birthday alone as she said, you have to take chances in life, you never know which day is your last. I agreed and said, that's why I came to Moscow!
We continued to have dinner and after dinner I ordered a shot of Frangelico for us to share. But apparently in Russia you don't share from the same glass, so she ordered an empty glass and we split the drink and then had a few toasts. Her last one, she looked me in the eyes and said "I'm glad you come". Wow, couldn't have asked for more. I toasted to us and the future.
Just remembered, we sit down, the waiter comes over and Nat without skipping a beat says something to him in Russian, he comes back a minute later with an English menu for me. I thanked her and she said "why you thank me, I'm nice!" haha. You should all probably know right now that my nickname for her since day 0 has been smartass and she loves it, calls herself smartass all the time, and trust me, she knows what it means. I said yes you are, and a complete smartass, she simply says with a smile "always!" Her nickname for me is trouble!
After dinner I walked her to the metro and we talked and walked and had a fun time. As we went to part we kissed, a closed lip kiss this time and then a few moments later a second time. She then said, my you know what did itch as she has sensitive skin. So with that in mind, for my next trip I'll remove that thing I vowed not to speak of again. Bottom line is, she tried it and that's really all I could ask. Yes I know I've been a knob about it with you guys, but did you honestly think I'd fly 17 hours to be may-laid by that? (hey, give me kudos for fessing up, didn't have to tell you!)
Related to that, back in the US, Canada and also England, I've had a very successful dating career and if I didn't get laid by the 2nd date and definitely by the 3rd, there wouldn't be a 4th. Tonight was technically only our 2nd date and I got a reluctant closed mouth kiss and feel like I've hit the jackpot. What is it about these women. OMG, she's so special and if you try and tell her that she says something like "I'm just me". I hate to be a broken record, but it's sooooo refreshing.
We briefly talked about me coming back and she's made it abundantly clear she wants me to come back. But no dates set in stone. We'll get a better idea once I get back and see how business is. I think the ultimate goal would be to come over once every 3 months and get her over to me at least once a year. I know that's planning ahead, but I don't sense there's anything casual about this or my feelings for her, and they (my feelings) are still very much in their infancy.
So with that in mind, sorry no pics. Tomorrow I'm going to get up early even if I don't sleep. Head to the Kremlin in the morning and also Pushkin Museum after. I told Nat I want to take her to that American diner tomorrow and she liked the idea but said if it's too far we'll go somewhere else. I said fine with me, but can we make it something different like Uzbek food or something that I've never tried and that you like. Her response "sure, doesn't matter where we go, I can order something from any menu, like salad". Unreal, such a strong headed women in so many ways, yet so thoughtful at the same time.
Hopefully things with her and I continue to grow, but if not, she's raised the bar so dam high for every other woman already.
Nite chaps!
Wish me luck in the sleep department.
C
PS, I HATE to be leaving Moscow on Thursday, just last week I was nervous as hell about coming here (not about meeting her, just about my misconceptions of Moscow).
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I said fine with me, but can we make it something different like Uzbek food or something that I've never tried and that you like.
Ask to go to the "White Sands Sun Of The Desert" restaurant :) (or something like that,.. it has the theme of the Russian movie).
Hopefully things with her and I continue to grow, but if not, she's raised the bar so dam high for every other woman already.
Once you go Eastern European...
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Related to that, back in the US, Canada and also England, I've had a very successful dating career and if I didn't get laid by the 2nd date and definitely by the 3rd, there wouldn't be a 4th. Tonight was technically only our 2nd date and I got a reluctant closed mouth kiss and feel like I've hit the jackpot.
That's why we are saying SHAVE ... and quickly! :8)
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Nice report and glad that she seems to be feeling better too after several days of illness. Thanks for the frequent updates.
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Manny, you make a good point or two. However, lets not forget she started paperwork to go live in Australia before I even knew her, so the idea of moving to another country, giving everything up etc etc is something she's thought about and is preparing to do regardless of the man (or lack of) in her life.
As you so cleverly put, there is more than 1 side to a story. While my shaving is not an impossibility, it will not be happening any time soon.
Truth is, most any action could be mistaken for something else if we allowed it. Like I said, if it becomes a serious issue with her, we'll talk about it and reach a compromise. Until then, it stays! :dh:
C
I guess you have to admire a man for sticking to his guns...even if they are pointed at his temple.
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hahaha, never let it be said I don't know how to have some fun.
One thing I forgot to add to yesterdays report was that Nat told me more than once how comfortable she felt with me. Was just thinking about that over my morning coffee.
Off to the Pushkin museum today.
C
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Censu,
First off, I am greatly enjoying your ongoing trip report. It is always refreshing to encounter the enthusiasm of a first time visitor when things seem to be going well.
Regarding the lady, there is far too little detail for me to give much advice that would be remotely on point, in all likelihood. The one thought I would leave you with--as you have discovered, some ladies have skin sufficiently sensitive to make beards and mustaches an issue--especially if you are rather enthusiastic in your kissing style. It's good that you are actually somewhat flexible in this regard. As another commenter pointed out, I'd seriously consider taking it off for your final times together before you depart. You might be pleasantly surprised at the response.
I do hope that things continue to work out for you in this endeavor...and that you fully enjoy your remaining hours in Moscow.
David
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Off to the Pushkin museum today.
Now you're making us jealous, what a cool place. You're within walking distance of the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour -- the largest Orthodox Cathedral in the world and also one of the most beautiful.
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My life just became a ton more complicated!
Wow, my final night in Moscow and I have so many emotions coursing thru my system I don't know where to begin.
I decided to surprise Nat today and shave, yep, shave, made me even cuter, hard to believe right! Haha. I thought if nothing else I'd get a nice kiss as a result. More about that in a min.
Later in the day I found my way over to Pushkin Museum and had a good time, alone. Although I didn't have to be. I met a lovely Russian lady name Helena and if I'd wanted to, I could have had fun with her all afternoon, but as you know, I only have eyes for Nat (oh god, where's the puke bag right?). Got a bunch of pics in there and then some outside. Ironically there was a display of paintings from French painters. The signs were most Russian and French with one line of English per. I found reading the French easier, in Moscow haha.
Then I went and met Nat and took her to the traditional American Diner off of Red Square. We are talking about everything and nothing. At one point I said I can't believe you don't like your picture being taken when you smile. She just shrugs her shoulders and says it doesn't look good. I reminded her I used to be a professional photographer and will take a nice picture of her. She laughs and insists that I would have forgotten how or that it will look bad. So I made a deal with her, some time in the future she is to let me take some nice pictures of her, but they'll never get printed unless she first approves then. She said “it's a deal, in the future”. But now the fun begins, sorry if this one runs long.
Nat comes up to me at the metro station, almost 30 min late, and I hate that. A pet peeve of mine. She smiles and boom I ain't pissed anymore (not good, she's totally diffusing me without even trying, haha). She immediately notices that I've shaved. She said, why did you do that. I said because you wanted me to. She said “I never said that”, and then “I like it, it suits you” WTF?! What, I said, she said yes, you look better with it, it makes you look younger too. But you said you wouldn't like to kiss me when I have a beard. Anyway, this conversation goes on and off for a good 20 min. The long and the short of it (I think, I have no friggin clue) is she likes me with it but would prefer me to not have it when we kiss. So next visit she expects me to have it and if it hurts to kiss, she wants me to shave it while here? I am certain I don't have this right, but that's the best I could get because then she got into this “why you confusing me” pattern. What? I'm the one that's confused. You like it, you don't like it. I don't have a clue. I said you are going to be a lot of work and she wasn't sure what I meant, I said, you are going to be trouble, she smiled and said “120%”. This was the first time this evening she told me how much she's going to miss me and wished I had more time here. She almost never breaks eye contact either which in my mind is the clearest sign of interest from her. For me, I could stare into her eyes all day.
She came back to my apartment to pick up some gifts I had for her and for me to give her a SIM card back she got for me (and refused to take cash for it!, she never let me pay for the metro when we were together, she'd use her pass.). I then tell her I'm walking her back to the metro and she said, you sure. Of course I said, I'm naturally protective of those I like. She gave me a big smile and said thanks. So we walk arm in arm back to the metro, it's almost midnight and she's walking unusually slow, I can only assume to make the moment last, even though it was almost midnight.
As we are walking we are both saying how great the trip has been and she said she's really going to miss me, as she said at dinner a few times. I told her I wasn't expecting the trip to go this well. I said I knew we'd be friends, but that I wasn't expecting to have feelings for her so soon. She said what do you mean, I said, you are already very special to me, she smiled and said she agreed. I told her it was very refreshing. She said “refreshing, that means you've experience this before”. I simply said similar, it's never the same twice. “ah” she says, “which is better, now or then”. I just looked her in the eyes and said, it's different every time. She laughed and said “you very smart man!” We've had this running joke about me being the nicest man in the world and her being the nicest women in Russia when she's a smartass, and nicest in the world when she behaves herself. As we are walking she said, “you are nicest man in the world, I can confirm this”. I said thank you, but is that a good thing. She said “of course, why not”. I told her in the US being a nice guy is a negative and means you want to be someones friend and nothing more. Without skipping a beat she said “but there is nothing negative about you” and “not so over here, especially in this case”. We walked and talked some more and I wished the walk wouldn't end. We talked a little about me coming over again (she was worried because I run my own business and have had a few clients call while here and had to refer them to my competition, so she thinks it's impossible for me to get away). I said I keep my promises and I promise you I will be back. She simply said “good, I like this”. Then said, I want you to come back as soon as possible and in the summer.
As stated at the beginning, my emotions are all over the place. Twice this week I've wondered if logistically it's worth the aggravation, then when I'm with her it's the stupidest question ever. We were trying to call the airline to make sure I can make it to London tomorrow. She said something to the effect of, I want you to have a safe trip and hope your flight doesn't get canceled, but if it does it's good for me. You can stay in Moscow longer, but will be sad you won't have your family with you”. She really seemed to open up more tonight. I jokingly said I will be back, I don't want you to forget me. She replied, I can never forget you, even if you don't come back.
I really wish I didn't have to leave. Like I said, my life just got a whole hell of a lot more complicated.
Naturally at the metro station she told me to email/text her in the morning, when I get to the airport, when I get to London, when I get to my sisters in London. Then said if you get stuck at the airport this is how to get a SIM ask for … I said “yes mother”, she said worry about you.
I think I need to pinch myself. Yes I've talked to half a dozen women over the past 3 years in the FSU. Even got a visa and tickets for one in Kazakhstan. The one day a week after I bought the ticket she advised me not to come and would speak to me in 3 days. Never heard from her again. That was the closest I've ever come to meeting one of them until now. Hard to believe I got so lucky first time out of the shoot so to speak. Don't get me wrong, I know we'll have out issues with the cultural differences and she's stubborn like me and unlike me she can be hot headed, so we compliment each other there. But overall I'd say the future looks bright.
One final note on the stubborn thing. She brought her laptop along for me to look at. I carried it for her once we got together. In the restaurant we started talking about it and I said let me see, I start to pull it out of the bag and she says no. I said not a problem and carry on. Then she's getting worried I'll drop paper from the bag and then shouts at me “no, not now”, then more calmly says “wait till we get back to your apartment”. So naturally I continued to pull the laptop out, look at it and put it back. Then made an over exaggerated point of showing her nothing fell out. She then said “you are more stubborn than even I am” and I simply said “you talk to me like that, of course I am not going to listen”. While playful, I think it was an important moment.
Anyway guys, enjoy. When I get to London tomorrow I'll close up this report with my final thoughts on this trip, not the beautiful Natalia.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15122286@N04/
C
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For the record, I now officially love Moscow. I told Nat this and she just laughed. She's so worried I'm not having a good time because she can't spend time with me. Bless her heart. I can't tell you how many times she's appologized to me for her being sick. I keep telling her it's not her fault and that if she invites me back I will gladly come, her response was simply "yes, definitely!". Shortly after she admitted to me she feels like she's known me for many years, which I take as a huge compliment and told her so. In fact I told her when she was on my arm walking down Arbat, it felt very natural, like we had been doing it for years.
Man, I'm right there with you. Hadnt gone yet, but i've been a fan of Russia for years and years. Its culture is so rich. Eventually, I'll stop putting work first and go(hopefully).
A good friend of mine only goes for Asian women, he calls it 'yellow fever', I have the equiv now, is there a term like Rusky fever that gets passed around on here? I have no issues dating in my own country, in fact it's very easy, but Nat has some special, which is all I could ave hoped for, oh and I didn't even see her today. what's up with that!
I got that already, having dated 3 Russian women in the states, any eastern european accent around; my ears perk up immediately.
Yesterday I was buying wine for gifts for people this year at the liquor store and the check out lady, Rumyana; was from Bulgaria. She was 50-something and 30 pounds overwieght; but that accent had me. :)
Best of luck keeping it going once youre back home.
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A good friend of mine only goes for Asian women, he calls it 'yellow fever', I have the equiv now, is there a term like Rusky fever that gets passed around on here? I have no issues dating in my own country, in fact it's very easy, but Nat has some special, which is all I could ave hoped for, oh and I didn't even see her today. what's up with that!
I got that already, having dated 3 Russian women in the states, any eastern european accent around; my ears perk up immediately.
Yesterday I was buying wine for gifts for people this year at the liquor store and the check out lady, Rumyana; was from Bulgaria. She was 50-something and 30 pounds overwieght; but that accent had me. :)
I would out that down to the fact they are probably speaking real English, and nothing to do with their accent. :-X
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Great stuff 'C'. Thanks for your 'on the fly' TR, I hope your have a good journey home. The good news for you is by the time you do get home then your beard will have grown back .. and some. tiphat
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Can you believe after all that she likes it... hahaha
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Can you believe after all that she likes it... hahaha
Likes what? Did you miss some detail out of your TR? :innocent:
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For real? The beard man!
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For real? The beard man!
Oh, I thought you said she liked it? Anyway(s), props to you (or whatever it is you people say). :8)
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as you have discovered, some ladies have skin sufficiently sensitive to make beards and mustaches an issue--especially if you are rather enthusiastic in your kissing style.
Yes, I remember, in one morning I crawled up to the mirror and saw that the upper layer of my chin skin was practically taken off by goatee that grew up on my friend's face during the night, and my face was bleeding :o Love affection works as anesthetic, I haven't felt any pain except some minor itching on my chin :)
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We talked about it over dinner the other night and since I have her in love with San Diego already, and her doctor tells her she needs a better climate if she's to stand a chance of staying healthy, she's very keen to move somewhere without harsh winters.
C
Acually winter air is free of dust and pollens that are found in sunny climes like San Diego. Her health issues may be more to with the horrible mini busses, and apartment stale air loaded with high humidity. germs live in the moist air and if you wish to experience this first hand, I dare you to jump into one of those marshitkas, for a 20 minute ride. No air flow, no open windows or roof vents, just the pure stale breath of the other 15 souls all crammed into the rolling death machine.
So give it a whirl, time is running out!
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Excellent photo work....those night shots of Cathedral of Christ the Saviour are stunning!
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Thank you, not bad for a $150 camera and not using a flash.
Don, I agree with you, but having spent time in San Diego, some of the higher elevations and ocean breeze will likely be a big difference maker. But truth be told, that's so far down the road we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Ever since moving to Virginia I've had sinus issues and I'm not one that really suffers from allergies. I guess Arizona might be an option in one sense, but I don't care to live in an oven.
C
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Nat comes up to me at the metro station, almost 30 min late, and I hate that. A pet peeve of mine. She smiles and boom I ain't pissed anymore (not good, she's totally diffusing me without even trying, haha).
Only 30? You've got a keeper :)
She immediately notices that I've shaved. She said, why did you do that. I said because you wanted me to. She said “I never said that”, and then “I like it, it suits you” WTF?!
:laugh: Get used to it.
I reminded her I used to be a professional photographer and will take a nice picture of her.
It shows, great stuff!
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Sitting here alone in the quiet waiting for my landlady to show up so I can give her the key.
I can honestly say I feel down having to leave both Moscow and Natalia. I never expected to feel this strongly about a 'strange' city and a new budding friendship/relationship.
Once again I didn't sleep, only got 2 hours again. Nothing better than starting the trip sleep depraved haha
BA says the flight is scheduled today, but no reference to on time or not. Hopefully my next post will be tomorrow from London.
C
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Sitting here alone in the quiet waiting for my landlady to show up so I can give her the key.
I can honestly say I feel down having to leave both Moscow and Natalia. I never expected to feel this strongly about a 'strange' city and a new budding friendship/relationship.
Once again I didn't sleep, only got 2 hours again. Nothing better than starting the trip sleep depraved haha
BA says the flight is scheduled today, but no reference to on time or not. Hopefully my next post will be tomorrow from London.
C
Jeez man, a couple of whiskey's always helps with the sleep--I'm in Europe 3 x each year and swear by it (shut-up Manny) :chuckle:
Good to hear all went well, and you've got the bug. Maintain it mate, go see her as often as possible to consolidate and let the relationship prosper--get as much face time as possible together and maintain as much regular communication as possible while you're apart; both of you need this to learn and understand each other further.
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She immediately notices that I've shaved. She said, why did you do that. I said because you wanted me to. She said “I never said that”, and then “I like it, it suits you” WTF?! What, I said, she said yes, you look better with it, it makes you look younger too. But you said you wouldn't like to kiss me when I have a beard. Anyway, this conversation goes on and off for a good 20 min. The long and the short of it (I think, I have no friggin clue) is she likes me with it but would prefer me to not have it when we kiss. So next visit she expects me to have it and if it hurts to kiss, she wants me to shave it while here? I am certain I don't have this right, but that's the best I could get because then she got into this “why you confusing me” pattern. What? I'm the one that's confused. You like it, you don't like it. I don't have a clue. I said you are going to be a lot of work and she wasn't sure what I meant, I said, you are going to be trouble, she smiled and said “120%”.
If you are expecting critical thinking from your partner, you had better marry a Western guy.
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Merry Christmas everyone! Hope you all had a great day.
I'm in London at one my sisters place. Had a few days to think over my trip to Moscow and here are my closing thoughts on the trip.
Moscow completely took me by surprise. I knew I'd have a great adventure regardless of anything else. Natalia, well she exceeded any and all expectations. I tried very hard to go with few or no expectations, but that was basically impossible.
When I left Moscow I was actually over come with emotion, couple that with less than 3 hours sleep a night on average, well the train ride back to Domodedovo was very hard. I could not have predicted things to have gone as well as they did. Natalia is truly a special woman. I'm lucky to have met her. I still don't know if it's her charm or a Russian woman's charm or both. Either way it's very compelling.
I spoke to Nat today, first time since I arrived in London. Nat expressed how she missed me, as i did for her. I told her how hard the train ride was and how I had so many emotions going thru me. So she said in her cute way "what emotions" DOH!, wasn't expecting that. so I did my best to tell her what was going thru my mind at that time and she simply said "good!"
Of course I can't predict the future, but have to admit that things look very positive at the moment. If things continue like this, wow, she might just be the one!
Thank you all for listening and giving your input. I'm happy you liked my pics. Once I get back to the US I will start planning my next trip. She's very much looking forward to my next visit. I feel some times I have to pinch myself.
Be good to yourselves and your loved ones!
C
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Censu,
I'm glad for you that you feel the trip was beyond your expectations in such a positive way, and I do hope that things continue to develop for you both. Beneath it all, I am quite an old-fashioned romantic myself, and I always feel very good when others find themselves happily surprised with a new relationship.
It sounds like your Nat has quite a personality.
Please let us know how things are progressing from time to time--and you may be sure that a number of us will be rooting for your success in this venture.
David
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Any man who has ever found or ever hopes to find a FSU bride has enjoyed your
story. Such an enchanting combination of beauty and charm is hard to resist. I especially smiled at her sense of humor.....yes I am a smartass...))))))....You probaby catch yourself trying to remember when if ever your emotions have ever been so alive. If I had to guess you are still looking at your watch and thinking Moscow time...wondering what she doing right now and how you miss her.
Skype all you can...emails when you cant skype...and as soon as you can, give yourself both a return date to look forward to.
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As others have said, we're cheering for your success! If she is truly the one and it sounds very promising, you'll both continue to confirm it as you move forward. tiphat
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Yes she does have a great sense of humor and thankfully being in person really helped. I suspect she understands about 75% of what I say the first time around. I believe I understand marginally more of what she says to me. But so many things are missed over the phone.
For instance, when we were on the metro and she was a smartass, I gently pinched the back of her neck. She started giggling and naturally tried to pull away. There's no way to convey my playfulness like that over the phone.
She often says to me "do not be offend", meaning she's only joking and doesn't want to offend me. I think after the last time she said that in person, she now knows how I feel about that and she'll be even more comfortable. I simply looked her in the eyes and said "it's OK, I know it's not in your nature to offend, I know you are joking" and she just smiled and thanked me.
Unfortunately Internet at her apartment is terrible. So much so that she doesn't even try most times. I did upgrade her laptop for her so maybe it's the laptop and not the internet. When I get state side I'll push her again to try skype. That would really help.
C
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Unfortunately Internet at her apartment is terrible. So much so that she doesn't even try most times. I did upgrade her laptop for her so maybe it's the laptop and not the internet. When I get state side I'll push her again to try skype. That would really help.
C
Internet service in the FSU varies widely. Here in Donetsk, there is presently a price war between a handful of providers. Our present service has gone from a 5 mb/second connection for 99 griven a little over a year and a half ago, to 10, 30, and now 60 megabits for the same 100 griven. There is a fiber optic line to the building, then a conversion box to run Ethernet into our apartment. The down side, unfortunately, is that their DNS is somewhat flaky so the initial connection can take a while--but once connected, it is very fast (as you might imagine).
I would be surprised if there aren't some pretty good providers in Moscow. Thus, if the service is still bad with the new laptop, that would be the thing to check. It could be that she could get much better service for fairly little cash.
David
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Thank you for sharing your TR
Udachi
Bill
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Don, I agree with you, but having spent time in San Diego, some of the higher elevations and ocean breeze will likely be a big difference maker. But truth be told, that's so far down the road we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Ever since moving to Virginia I've had sinus issues and I'm not one that really suffers from allergies. I guess Arizona might be an option in one sense, but I don't care to live in an oven.
C
just throwing in my 2 cents.
my step-dad always had severe allergies and living in Houston gave him real problems and sometimes migraines, but thats where he worked. anyways, he and my mom moved to galveston after he retired and the constant breeze off the water has made things a lot easier for him. he says he can tell when the wind is changed and is coming from Houston as his allergies will kick up almost immediately.
now, they are literally the first row of beachhouses on the beach, so i'm not sure how that translates to living in a suburb 15 miles from the beach in san diego; but having allergies myself; i can assure you that anywhere near the beach will typically give a person less problems than living almost anywhere else thats not a desert.
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If you are expecting critical thinking from your partner, you had better marry a Western guy.
+1
Bill's analysis,
She doesn't like your beard, but doesn't want to reject you if
you have one.
Udachi
Bill
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Just wanted to share this with you since it's sort of related to my trip report.
I spoke to Nat a few days ago and she asked me if I had grown my beard back. I told her I had and she said "how does it look". I said, "great, very sexy", and without skipping a beat she says "who told you that?!" with a sarcastic tone and a laugh. Gotta love that sense of humor. I told her I did and then she laughed some more and said "I approve" which once again puts me into a happy state of confusion! haha
Happy new year all.
C