Why the Friction Between some Russians and Ukrainians?

[hemingway]

So, if the western economies sink lower, there will be "mail order grooms" from the west? 

[supranatural]

Manny I suspect the answer is probably that more men go to UA than Russia.  Just as there is a simple fact that the vast majority of shark attacks occur in 3 ft of water or less - someone like Shakespear would make the conclusion that it's because most sharks live in 3 ft deep water - when in fact the reason most shark attacks occur in 3 ft of water is because that's where more people spend their time at the beach, in 3 ft of water or less. 

We should leave the "Guys like Shaky" out of this. Don't make it personal. Lets debate the topic at hand like adults.

It is true that perhaps 70% (my guestimate) of Russian speaking women seekers are American. A great many of those guys go to Ukraine (for reasons best known to themselves). It might stand to reason that more scam stories come out of Ukraine for that reason. Lets discuss that?

Lets also discuss the relationship between economics of a country and the desire of the resident women to export themselves? Economics plays a big part in motivation; be that motivation for self-export or motivation for scamming. It therefore stands to reason that poorer countries have more "mail-order bride" activity; which they do. This is further proved by the more affluent FSU countries exporting fewer women than the less affluent ones.

Further proved?  I'd say it's far from proved as there is not shown to be a direct correlation between a country's economics and the likelihood that they will have more mail order bride activity, otherwise countries like Laos, India, Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekestan, and Krygystan should have a thriving mail order bride business exceeding that of Russia and Ukraine. They don't.   Economics plays a part but a bigger part is the accessibility of a country which is why more men go to UA than Russia.  Don't fall into fallacies of logic.  Just because 2 things exist in proximity to each other does not prove causation.  People in 3 ft of water, and shark attacks in 3 ft of water does not prove shark's primary habitat is 3 ft of water.  More scam stories out of Ukraine? Is this a guesstimate or supported by actual evidence?  If there are more I suspect it is because more WM go to UA than any other reason.  Have enough people swim in 3 ft of water and they will experience more sharks than people in 10 ft of water.  Doesn't mean that 3 ft is safer - in reality it's not.  Most of my big shark encounters (including a 12 ft 1,000 lb. hammerhead shark) have been in 10-15 ft of water.  

[shakespear]

I'd say it's far from proved as there is not shown to be a direct correlation between a country's economics and the likelihood that they will have more mail order bride activity, otherwise countries like Laos, India, Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrgyzstan should have a thriving mail order bride business exceeding that of Russia and Ukraine. They don't.

You're ignoring the FACT that Caucasian men generally prefer Caucasian Christian women for marriage.  None of the countries you listed have a majority of Caucasian Christian women.   

[supranatural]

I'd say it's far from proved as there is not shown to be a direct correlation between a country's economics and the likelihood that they will have more mail order bride activity, otherwise countries like Laos, India, Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrgyzstan should have a thriving mail order bride business exceeding that of Russia and Ukraine. They don't.

You're ignoring the FACT that Caucasian men generally prefer Caucasian Christian women for marriage.  None of the countries you listed have a majority of Caucasian Christian women.   

I'm not ignoring the fact.  The "stans" mentioned have signficant Caucasian populations and were part of the USSR at one time and thus are FSU countries.  One of the members here (BillyB) IIRC is married to a woman from Tashkent, a pretty, blonde Caucasian woman. 

And maybe you have been hiding in a hole but Asian women are frequently desired by Caucasian men as well.  All of my pretty Asian female friends have no shortage of Caucasian men hitting on them.  There is a thriving business for WM to go to places like the Phillipines, Thailand etc in large part for the women there - you should know, your buddy Winston Wu found his paradise there and has a kid there with a 19 yo girl.

[WestCoast]

otherwise countries like Laos, India, Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekestan, and Krygystan should have a thriving mail order bride business exceeding that of Russia and Ukraine. They don't.  

Supranatural of the countries that you've listed Egypt is one of the richer countries in the middle East.  Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan are overwhelming Muslim countries. Muslim woman can't marry outside of their religion therefore the man must convert.  Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan are also rural countries and more corrupt than Russia or Ukraine, a remarkable achievement in itself. 

India despite the world economic downturn still has an expanding GDP and does have a thriving mail order bride business.  In India it is called "arranged marriages".  In Canada these "arranged marriages" easily outpace the FSU mail order bride business.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true in the UK, which has a large Indian population, probably also true in the USA.

[supranatural]

otherwise countries like Laos, India, Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekestan, and Krygystan should have a thriving mail order bride business exceeding that of Russia and Ukraine. They don't.  

Supranatural of the countries that you've listed Egypt is one of the richer countries in the middle East.  Egypt, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan are overwhelming Muslim countries. Muslim woman can't marry outside of their religion therefore the man must convert.  Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan are also rural countries

Egypt is a third world country with a lower GDP per capita than Russia or UA.  Outside of the tourist areas it's dirt poor, pretty much a real sh*thole.  I've been there twice...it's not pretty.

[fireeater]

Manny

Would be hard to show whether poorer economic conditions have increased the ones actually wanting to leave, and move to another country. Yet I have seen more Russian profiles popping up here, then in times past. Ones that have already decided to immigrate and have arrived, as singles. But they may have already made that choice prior to the conditions going down the tube, considering the time involved in the immigration process. Yet it is an indication that some had decided to leave, similar to Belle. But if Immigration increases then you could draw some conclusion from that, but that would take time for results to be shown.

Now the only place that may indicated this is those sites that promote MOB. But I doubt anyone has any stats before or after the crisis for the numbers looking. The only one I can offer that prior to the crisis only abut 70 women would be up at 3:00 am in the morning (their time) waiting to chat to men, when I did my test. Now at the same time today there are 210. Would seem to me that an increase in of 3 times the number would represent the crisis has increased the number in the bad side of the business. Would make it easier for those  agencies to convince women to do this, if they need more money. But unless the method was already in place, I doubt if many could afford to start a new one up.
 
But I would expect the crisis to increase the number of prodaters, women working for an agency , as well as "dates: with men going for various benefits, without them actually ever wanting to leave their own country.  
 
Now for the more legitimate side the same would apply, stats would be needed from before and after. Unless those who did back then can look again and see if they remember if that site seems to have an increase or not in the number of women looking now. If the same, then no impact, if more, then it probably does have a correlation to the crisis. The same would apply to a given country if that is their preference, does it seem more or the same. Those Stans may be easier for that since they would have had the fewer amount looking before.  
  
 

    

[mirror]

It is funny to read questions to Mirror like "how many Ukrs did you meet in your life?" or something like that.  I have a chance to live with them next and I know what is it Ukr better than you (visitors) know. If you will ask me about Kazakstan,Uzbekistan,Moldova,Baltic republics...I will tell you not less about people and a life there also. I know a hystory of all these countryes and folks and let me hope that you know from where I know it.

[Wild Orchid]

It is funny to read questions to Mirror like "how many Ukrs did you meet in your life?" or something like that.  I have a chance to live with them next and I know what is it Ukr better than you (visitors) know. If you will ask me about Kazakstan,Uzbekistan,Moldova,Baltic republics...I will tell you not less about people and a life there also. I know a hystory of all these countryes and folks and let me hope that you know from where I know it.

Mirror, they googled it, therefore they know everything 

[mirror]

Ah,maybe. As I know there is this false scamm information about me still.

I am sure (I know a character of Wiz) he is checking Google every day by trying to save this false about me in internet for a public.  

[mirror]

"Не тронь г...вно",как говорится. 

[nunya]

Supernatural I have read the post's between you and brad sharp and I think most, their will be exceptions, more than likey manny, but most people reading of the differences between you and brad sharp will see that you know what you are talking and writing about.   Keep up the good work.

[mirror]

 Keep up the good work.

You should pay Surpa for helping you to do your business.If I remember you are dating Ukr girls with Westerns.

[msmoby]

You should pay Surpa for helping you to do your business.If I remember you are dating Ukr girls with Westerns.

Dear Mirror, and what reasoning would you use for Chris, or myself ?

[shakespear]

Supernatural I have read the post's between you and brad sharp and I think most, their will be exceptions, more than likey Manny, but most people reading of the differences between you and Brad Sharp will see that you know what you are talking and writing about.   Keep up the good work.

Spoken like a man with no vested financial self-interest in convincing gullable men that Ukrainian women have no other motivation for marriage than love in spite of a 20-year age difference.  Jack = zero credibility.      

[Boris]

I made no comment on the motives of the women or men involved. I just commented on the economic situation as I saw it. Yes, there are some pockets of affluence but they are definitely the exception. I am not trying to denigrate Ukraine. I like being there---and feel comfortable there. I have been to many countries around the world and I know "economic difficulty" when I see it.

So what if one of the reasons she wants to be with you is to have a more "secure" life. If that is the only reason she wants to be with you surely you can tell. Any sensible woman anywhere wants to feel safe and cared for in a relationship. Women I date here have the same concerns.

[anjutka]

So what if one of the reasons she wants to be with you is to have a more "secure" life. If that is the only reason she wants to be with you surely you can tell. Any sensible woman anywhere wants to feel safe and cared for in a relationship. Women I date here have the same concerns.

yes....usually women has such reason as well....but just be sure that this is not 1st and main reason which was based on some myth about life in  foreigner country's 


 

[Boris]

So what if one of the reasons she wants to be with you is to have a more "secure" life. If that is the only reason she wants to be with you surely you can tell. Any sensible woman anywhere wants to feel safe and cared for in a relationship. Women I date here have the same concerns.

yes....usually women has such reason as well....but just be sure that this is not 1st and main reason which was based on some myth about life in  foreigner country's 


 

Well said, Anjutka. 

[fireeater]

Now since I have received two letters from Ukrainian women in the last two days, and the same city, from a site not known for having a lot of FSU women on it from other countries, I would say an increase is happening now. Seems they are expanding that search to other areas, if English is part of their language skills.   Manny's comment and those letters had me wondering, so I checked in more depth something I has not done for a while on this one.  8)

Now browsing by countries, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Belarus, Estonia, three of the Stan's, Ukraine, and also unknown before, Russia. The majority of these profiles have been set up in the last few months, Aug and Sept. Some earlier, going back to Feb of this year. The Russian ones I have doubts about, since all the ladies are on line at the same time, no matter what time of day it is here. Unusual for all to be on at the same time, yet they are still around after a couple of months. But I may check one out and comfirm that theory. The Ukrainian ones account for over half of the total number, for those countries, I did a check on. The ages range from 24 to 54 for the women's profiles in most cases. Some have even been set up in the last few days, since they are listed as such for a while. I expect more will arrive as well. For the stans they are all Asian except for two, one white,  Another listed as other.  

Economic conditions could easily be the reason, for such an increase, on a site outside the norm for it. Gentlemen you may want to check your own as well.      

But while on, I received a nice letter from a 35 year old women from New York City. Seems Fat Yuri is already in love with me, and we have not even met yet.   It is so nice too have that impact right at the beginning of a relationship.   Goggling her letter brings up references to a lady name Olga, and she is looking for a special relationship.        

[supranatural]

Supernatural I have read the post's between you and brad sharp and I think most, their will be exceptions, more than likey Manny, but most people reading of the differences between you and Brad Sharp will see that you know what you are talking and writing about.   Keep up the good work.

Spoken like a man with no vested financial self-interest in convincing gullable men that Ukrainian women have no other motivation for marriage than love in spite of a 20-year age difference.  Jack = zero credibility.      

Shakespear, you have very little (and again I am being generous) credibility when it comes to UA women especially when you try to extrapolate your Moscow experience with them.

Shakespear, can you please point out where on Jack's website or his posts where he advises men to pursue women with 20+ years difference in ages?  And Shakespear, don't you have some financial interests in setting men up with RW as well?  I seem to recall an example with Winston Wu as well and a flat you have...or did I recall incorrectly?

[msmoby]

Seems Fat Yuri is already in love with me, and we have not even met yet.   It is so nice too have that impact right at the beginning of a relationship.   Goggling her letter brings up references to a lady name Olga, and she is looking for a special relationship.        

Dear FE,

I NEVER understand why men-folk "boast" or even comment about receiving such letters...  both Mrs Moby and I get them ...even, now..

They just go STRAIGHT into the "round file" !

[supranatural]

Now since I have received two letters from Ukrainian women in the last two days, and the same city, from a site not known for having a lot of FSU women on it from other countries, I would say an increase is happening now. Seems they are expanding that search to other areas, if English is part of their language skills.   Manny's comment and those letters had me wondering, so I checked in more depth something I has not done for a while on this one.  8)

Now browsing by countries, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Belarus, Estonia, three of the Stan's, Ukraine, and also unknown before, Russia. The majority of these profiles have been set up in the last few months, Aug and Sept. Some earlier, going back to Feb of this year. The Russian ones I have doubts about, since all the ladies are on line at the same time, no matter what time of day it is here. Unusual for all to be on at the same time, yet they are still around after a couple of months. But I may check one out and comfirm that theory. The Ukrainian ones account for over half of the total number, for those countries, I did a check on. The ages range from 24 to 54 for the women's profiles in most cases. Some have even been set up in the last few days, since they are listed as such for a while. I expect more will arrive as well. For the stans they are all Asian except for two, one white,  Another listed as other.  

Economic conditions could easily be the reason, for such an increase, on a site outside the norm for it. Gentlemen you may want to check your own as well.      

But while on, I received a nice letter from a 35 year old women from New York City. Seems Fat Yuri is already in love with me, and we have not even met yet.   It is so nice too have that impact right at the beginning of a relationship.   Goggling her letter brings up references to a lady name Olga, and she is looking for a special relationship.        

Fireeater, some interesting research.  However, it may support my contention about economic conditions as a motivating factor.  It may very well be a factor but not nowhere near as great as Shakespear would believe, otherwise some of the "stans", which are far worse off than UA and Russia, should have more women than the other countries.  The fact that they don't supports my contention that there has not been shown to be a direct correlation between the two.

[alenika]

I NEVER understand why men-folk "boast" or even comment about receiving such letters...  both Mrs Moby and I get them ...even, now.. They just go STRAIGHT into the "round file" !

People should boast at least of something, how cannot you understand this   

[supranatural]

It is funny to read questions to Mirror like "how many Ukrs did you meet in your life?" or something like that.  I have a chance to live with them next and I know what is it Ukr better than you (visitors) know.

So now you've lived in Ukraine?  For how long?  How many prostitutes did you know?  As far as marriages to WM, how many did you know who were married to WM and how many of those marriages were motivated by money?  How about compared to RW marriages to WM?  How many do you know to compare to the UW-WM marriages?

I can point to my own personal experiences which mirror at least one other person on this site that refutes your statement that "Russian women will stand by you on a rainy day."

If you will ask me about Kazakstan,Uzbekistan,Moldova,Baltic republics...I will tell you not less about people and a life there also. I know a hystory of all these countryes and folks and let me hope that you know from where I know it.

Your "history" that you were taught, just like the ones taught in many countries, is part truth and part propaganda.  If you weren't there living it, your idea of the history, regardless of who taught it, is no better than what someone can find and read about on their own.  It's one reason I've traveled, to talk to the actual people and see what their culture is rather than read about it.  

[fireeater]

Msmoby, Not a boast, but some light humor along with a warning to others, that on a legimate site here, Fat Yuri will find a way to entice men into his game. Did you notice the city it came from. Most I get on this site are listed, for the city being in the USA, not the FSU. Since he she has lasted now five days, they may be changing their tatics, again.  

Now what are you and the lovely wife doing on dating sites, to receive such wonderful, and ego building letters.