All the scams I've seen (Or perhaps a rich European whining about money)

[Leo512]

First of all i am a Dutch and live in Brussels Belgium.


Visited Minks Jan 2009.

KICKBACK scam nr1: Minsk, Belarus
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Before i visited her, we spoke on the phone and emailed. We supposedly helped me out by booking my apartment and renting a car for me.
When i arrived i was shocked, her face was the same as in the pictures she sent me, but she was 4 years older (37 instead of 33). That being said, I did not go for the young females as i think its not for a stable relationship, it could work but it is higher risk. Oh, by the way, she was a "few" pounds heavier in real life!!
She drove me to the apartment she arranged, met the guy who was going to rent it to me (he did not speak English), but...i had to pay her first..and then she went into another room and payed him. Mind you, i wasn't going to object as what i am going to do with a big suitcase in Belarus in Jan(freezing cold)?
 
Everything thereafter had a pricetag in euros!!. She even said "well if you need a day alone to visit Minsk by yourself, its OK" WTF? i thought i had came there to talk to this women. I arrived in Saturday, rescheduled my flight to leave next Tuesday. It got me thinking, well maybe she wasn't into me or whatever.. I certainly wasn't into her!!!! Cold , distant, mechanical, didn't seem interested in a relationship at all. She was more interested in having a good time dining out etc.  When she asked if i had family back home waiting for me, i got really scared!!!

 Anyway, after cutting my visit short, and coming back home to Brussels, I decided to  google her name,(she had to provide her name for my Belarus tourist visa).
She was listed as a scammer.......nuff said. My first trip to the FSU, chalk it up as a  big learning experience.

I found her listed on a couple of dating sites , i mailed the site owners my experience and the link to the scam report,... she was removed promptly i haven't encountered her since.


KICKBACK scam nr2: Odessa Ukraine,
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This time my radar was up, no more "helping me out with finding an apartment" or other services. This girl i met at rw globe.com, got her phone and address, her photos were very very nice. Here she is: link

She is still listed.

Couple of things, first i must say , i do believe she is interested in a serious relationship, but  she didn't mind trying to scam for a few bucks along the way while finding "Mr right".

The story: My translator called her and notified her of the date and time of my arrival. I met her in a cafe/restaurant in Odessa (first meeting). I got my own independent translator this time. From this translator I heard later on that she objected to an independent translator ,"she wanted her own" .....riiiight!!!

The meeting initially went remarkably well, I was funny and entertaining, my translator laughed even more then "Vikki" did, as she understood English. Vikki started giving me body language "signals". Like wiggling her hips, touching her hair, sitting up straight (push breast up). Running her tongue over her lips.
Sadly i must say, i wasn't attracted to her at all!

Reason: In the photos she is "nice" and "cute" the endless letters we wrote to each other she seemed really serious and mature. In the meeting she acted really stickup, arrogant , snobbish with an entitlement mentality to boot.
Infact the more i was (ignoring/turned off by) her ,while having a good time with the translator being funny and cocky, the more she was attracted to me. (Strange how that works with women.)

Anyway, it was our first meeting, i flew over ONLY to see this one lady (a very big mistake i never made/will-make again). Since i was going to stay the whole week, i hoped things might change and i would see the real "Vikki" i have come to know through the letters. Anyway the whole thing blew up the first day.

While Walking to the taxi to bring her home, she wanted to see my apartment (now you do not do that on the first date! agreed?), i refused, said i was tired from the flight and i would bring her home instead, now here it went wrong,....., she wanted me to PAY her for the taxi , instead of dropping her off at her house. WTF? She wanted "100 Ukrainian" (10 USD). (Please not that airport fair is 60 rignia , so 100 is a shitload for just a short trip within Odessa). I refused flat out, she exploded with a big temper. F*ck that!

Lol, funny part is... after this, i hanged out with the translator instead and her cousin she was trying to set me up with. Later i found out that the cousin had been a stripper and she also has had an "arrangement" with an 60 year old fat American "boyfriend". I am starting to believe Odessa is NOT the place to find a RW. On a second trip to Odessa i befriended an Indian businessman who told me that my translator herself had slept with him for money. I felt sick for i was actually starting to like the translator... Pfffew Odessa is one big whorehouse.


KICKBACK scam Nr3: Odessa Ukraine
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OK this time, i arranged a meeting with a couple of ladies, phonenumbers, the works, checked out the internet for their names, they all came up clean.

I arrived, got into my apartment at noon, and started calling...

Lady nr#1: All of a sudden doesn't speaks English that well but her 'good friend' the translator can help us out (for a small fee). F*ck that!!
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Lady nr#2: Tries the same shit, but later bends and we meet for a small expresso. She speaks English fluently!! I am almost 100% certain she was a callgirl looking for "retirement".
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Lady nr#3: Funny as hell, good times, i really wanted to see her again so we made a new appointment,...but i made a mistake, after a really good day she told me she was a little sick, so i lent her my silk shawl. BIG MISTAKE, now she lives 2 hours driving from Odessa but now she insist on taking a taxi the next day to meet me (600 rignia roundtrip). Kickback heaven. I paid her to get my shawl (300 euros worth) back.   that!
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Lady nr#4: Lied to me, she was actually 19 instead of 25. Her dad was 2 years older then me. No-can-do! She was nice, though. She didn't try to scam for money at all, but she did lie about her age. It shows that you need to more then one option when travelling to see a RW.
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Lady nr#5: Wanted me to buy her gifts, using hints. No  :censored:ing way!
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Lady nr#6: This is the translator from my first trip to Odessa again before i met the Indian tradesman who disclosed her history with her. In hindsight, I kind of knew this because she told me once she had done some "crazy stuff" in the past! (Crazy, experimental stuff in Odessa means prostitution? mmmm)


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Anyway...if i read all these success stories here, what am i doing wrong, or should i be looking in the more rural areas in the Ukraine/Russia, avoid Odessa and Kiev Entirely?

[Herrie]

Leo,

Just bad luck I guess Odessa is quite known about their "professional daters" or "scammers" unfortunately

I believe going to some smaller cities will increase your chances of finding a more genuine person. Then again most woman in the big cities often come from small cities as well.

My g/f lives in Minsk but doesn't originate from there either.

For sure there are good girls out there, but also quite some ones who use it as means to get some additional income. Often I can't blame them, it's quite easy money to scam men for some additional $/€ on top of the apartment rent/taxi fares etc.

Most people have € 300-400/month income so anything extra they can get is helpful to them. I don't approve this behavior at all because I believe it to be immoral, but I CAN understand it.

[Manny]

Anyway...if i read all these success stories here, what am i doing wrong, or should i be looking in the more rural areas in the Ukraine/Russia, avoid Odessa and Kiev Entirely?

Many people would say so.

Welcome to the forum Leo.

[Leo512]

Hi,

I did enjoy the last to trips to Ukraine, especially Vikki and the translator. Vikki was a fighter but for some reason  she was very bitter about her life.  I get the feeling it is not the girls fault perse, Ukraine is easily travelled to, no visa-requirements for Americans Or Europeans, the former (and the Brittish) i really blame for turning Ukraine into a whorehouse.  Loudmouth, obnoxious, and totally disrespectfull. IF you are an above average girl , there is not much you can do to get ahead then "webcamindustry", "escort"  or "dating".     I think Russia is slightly more better because of visa-requirements. Never been though, ....

[Manny]

Americans Or Europeans, the former (and the Brittish) i really blame for turning Ukraine into a whorehouse. 

The British are Europeans by the way.

You should also take a look how many Italians and Danish go to Ukraine before you decide mainland Europeans are not to "blame".

Human nature is what makes people do what they do in Ukraine or any other country. Nobody makes anyone do anything.

[Leo512]

quote: ...I believe going to some smaller cities will increase your chances of finding a more genuine person. Then again most woman in the big cities often come from small cities as well...
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Come to think of it, i totally disagree, sure in the smaller towns there is a social check for the girls not to be "loose" and bring shame on the family. But in the big cities, not under the microscope of  the small town community and faced with the oppertunity of easy money and tempted with goods and gadgets from the West....hard not to say no!

So i see it as a more intrinsic nature of Ukrainian culture where sex traded for goods is not so much looked upon with the same stigma as in W-Europe.

quote: British are Europeans.

Cliche, We continentals beg to differ! Culturally they are more like the Americans.

quote:Human nature is what makes people do what they do in Ukraine or any other country. Nobody makes anyone do anything.

Agreed, there is no such thing as personal accountability. (note of sarcasm)

[slickedge]

Is that your advice Manny, blacklist an entire city?  Are Ukrainian women in general (and women from Odessa specifically) so jaded by sex tourists that it has become impossible to meet someone there?

If one were to choose Ukraine as his destination for meeting FSUW, I think it is important he do his due diligence by ensuring the women he is corresponding with are being honest by asking the right questions, by using more than one agency for setting up his dates, and for setting higher criteria for compatibility than just her age and her looks.

Unless Odessa has turned into the scam capital of the world, Leo had to have done something wrong if 6 out 6 women he met there were pro daters and/or lied about something on their profiles.  Even the interpreter he chose turned out to be a part-time prostitute.   There has to be more to this story than simply the city he chose to meet with his ladies.  I suspect it is a combination of the agencies he used and not getting to know the ladies well enough before meeting them.

[Leo512]

@slickedge

Ever been to Odessa, or do you have telepathic ability?

Please visit Odessa, the fact is while standing in front of the airport (second trip in april 2009 start of tourist season) I saw bussiness men of over 40, being dropped off/picked up at the airport by their 18/19 year old "girfriends". And in some cases girlfriends was "plural" as in multiple.
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Disgusting and saddning to see it! I wanted to go home immediatly!

Update: The Indian bussines man i met in Odessa told me quite frankly that you could sleep with any girl (nice ones) for 500 rignia (thats 50 bucks). The crisis is hitting Ukraine hard with inflation now at 25%.

[Chris]

Is that your advice Manny, blacklist an entire city?  Are Ukrainian women in general (and women from Odessa specifically) so jaded by sex tourists that it has become impossible to meet someone there?

If one were to choose Ukraine as his destination for meeting FSUW, I think it is important he do his due diligence by ensuring the women he is corresponding with are being honest by asking the right questions, by using more than one agency for setting up his dates, and for setting higher criteria for compatibility than just her age and her looks.

Unless Odessa has turned into the scam capital of the world, Leo had to have done something wrong if 6 out 6 women he met there were pro daters and/or lied about something on their profiles.  Even the interpreter he chose turned out to be a part-time prostitute.  There has to be more to this story than simply the city he chose to meet with his ladies.  I suspect it is a combination of the agencies he used and not getting to know the ladies well enough before meeting them.

I agree, if you go with the outlook that there is a scammer and a GTG under every rock, you will be sure to find one. You get what you desire  :

Having said all that Odessa is over fished for sure and it is probably the last place in Ukraine I would go to seek a wife, most of the bad press coming out of Ukraine for this industry is being spawned from Odessa.   The smaller cities and less trodden routes are the place to find a gem these days.

[Leo512]

'Going with the outlook'

to funny.. invent a hypothetical cause and sweep everything under that carpet, you guys reason like females (lol). I have had extensive conversations with these ladies and many times 3 way phone conversations with translators. I believe that IF you are looking for someone in Odessa, it is best not done over internet, just live there for a month with your feet on the ground. Best way! And by the way, most of these girls (except for Vikki) were normal looking. Well to me they were!

[Manny]

Is that your advice Manny, blacklist an entire city?  Are Ukrainian women in general (and women from Odessa specifically) so jaded by sex tourists that it has become impossible to meet someone there?

First, I didn't "blacklist" the city. Go back and read again.

Are many women in Ukraine jaded by sex tourists? Just see what the women themselves say: see here.

[slickedge]

Ever been to Odessa, or do you have telepathic ability?

You're right Leo, I haven't been to Odessa or anywhere else in Ukraine (yet).  Maybe that's why I'm having such a hard time understanding what you went through there and I need to see it through my own eyes to get a clear picture (although I'll probably be traveling to Kiev rather than Odesssa this summer). 

Just to clear up one of the points I made in my post, do you think you took enough time to really get to know these six women before you went to meet them?  In hindsight is there something you could have done differently so that it would have made it a more successful trip?

[Leo512]

By the way, the men in Odessa, really really hate the foreigners, because the scoope up the upper echolons of the dating scene. Or they get the girls back when they are to old for "partying" and their market value has declined...aka 28/29??

[Leo512]

You're right Leo, I haven't been to Odessa or anywhere else in Ukraine (yet).  Maybe that's why I'm having such a hard time understanding what you went through there and I need to see it through my own eyes to get a clear picture (although I'll probably be traveling to Kiev rather than Odesssa this summer). 

Kiev is worse!

Just to clear up one of the points I made in my post, do you think you took enough time to really get to know these six women before you went to meet them?  In hindsight is there something you could have done differently so that it would have made it a more successful trip?

Virtual women can present themselves anyway they want, they have been around the block a couple of times and probably themselves been hurt by daters. So the mentallity is, why give it away for free? Sex is a huge huge industry. I agree with the locals that every girl who is above average looking has at least at one time in her life traded sex for goods. Doesnt make her a slut because of that one time, but she has done it!

[shakespear]

Having said all that Odessa is over fished for sure and it is probably the last place in Ukraine I would go to seek a wife, most of the bad press coming out of Ukraine for this industry is being spawned from Odessa.   The smaller cities and less trodden routes are the place to find a gem these days. 

I've never been there either but if I were planning a "sex tour" it would be on the top of my list.     I hear the clubs are rockin' and the girls are smokin' hot and very "friendly" toward western men. . . . . . .

Some of my Moscow buddies often take "excursions" there and they said the city is full of the most beautiful women in the FSU.  None of them were looking for wives however.    

[Leo512]

Lol, yeah, the second night after my Date Vikki had a temper because she didnt get cold hard cash for taxi fair (wanted to drop her off at her house personally with no cost to her). I had a very good time with my translator and later her cousin hooked up with us while we hit the town. After that i walked the two of them home and...(nights are dangerous for girls) they invited me up to their appartment. WTF? The cousin was seducing me while the translator was making tea in the kitchin,...these girls are totally up for it if you want to have a good time.

[slickedge]

Odessa is over fished for sure and it is probably the last place in Ukraine I would go to seek a wife, most of the bad press coming out of Ukraine for this industry is being spawned from Odessa.   The smaller cities and less trodden routes are the place to find a gem these days.

Are many women in Ukraine jaded by sex tourists? Just see what the women themselves say: see here.

Some of my buddies used to take "excursions" there and they said the city was full of the most beautiful women in the FSU.  None of them were looking for wives however.    

Okay, I get it, don't go to Odessa if I am seeking a woman of wife material.  Point taken and acknowledged.  That is why I'm here, to learn from other's mistakes. 

[Leo512]

@slickedge

You're right Leo, I haven't been to Odessa or anywhere else in Ukraine (yet).

Lol, you havent been to Eastern Europe at all and you have an opinion about Odessa? to funny!

Are you American by any chance?

That is why I'm here, to learn from other's mistakes.

I didnt believe i made a mistake, thats how life works, we call it "risk", deal with it.

INternet is not the way to go, better use agencies, word of mouth that sort of thing..


By the way, i think this "sex-trade" thing is an Eastern European thing, when Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU, Brussels was awash in hot young farm girls turning to prostitution from those countries. For them it is norma you give the girl a "gift" after a good night on the town (or whatever your fancy is).

[slickedge]

Lol, you havent been to Eastern Europe at all and you have an opinion about Odessa? to funny!

By telling you in advance about my experiences in Eastern Europe (nil) readers of my post can put what I say into proper context.  Are you saying only those who have been to Ukraine can reply to what you have written?  My ignorance on this topic was made clear to me by others upthread.  As I said, due diligence and knowledge are important in this endeavor and I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong or when I simply don't know.  How about you Leo?

Are you American by any chance?

All my posts clearly state where I am from.  It would seem as though your data retention skills could use a little work.  I hope you read the letters from your Odessa ladies a little more carefully than you are reading through this forum.

I didnt believe i made a mistake, thats how life works, we call it "risk", deal with it.

By the way, i think this "sex-trade" thing is an Eastern European thing, when Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU, Brussels was awash in hot young farm girls turning to prostitution from those countries. For them it is norma you give the girl a "gift" after a good night on the town (or whatever your fancy is).

6 out of 6 women you met were pro daters and you didn't make any mistakes?  I guess that is just par for the course for someone who thinks all women are prostitutes.

[Markje]

Hi Slick,

I met 3 women during the dating scene and I met 0 women who weren't serious about meeting a husband.

Sure, I believe one of them was a pro-dater, but she was very serious in her intentions and never misrepresented herself.

Mark.
PS: I agree about odessa, that city really has a strange "local" scene with women.

[Leo512]

By telling you in advance about my experiences in Eastern Europe (nil) readers of my post can put what I say into proper context.

What context is that? Ignorance? (quote)"nil"

All my posts clearly state where I am from.

Oh yeah, new to this site, canada, well kindof the same!

6 out of 6 women you met were pro daters and you didn't make any mistakes?

No,... reading comprehension is out the door i see.  They just do both (serious and fundating), or have done it (translator her cousin). In hindsight it would be better not to have choosen Odessa, Kiev, but that you can only know if you have been there, so my only "mistake" is the lack of telepathic ability.

By the way my first Odessan date Vikki was assessed positive by ladagirl.com i payd 20 pounds orso for that..but then again Vikki is a very smart ODessan girl.

I guess that is just par for the course for someone who thinks all women are prostitutes.

What? making up stuff again? I live in Brussels, i tend to know whats going on in the EU and our new members. Bulgarian / Romanian girls trade sex for goods, for them its a huge income.

You spit on wealth because you grew up in a wellfare state.  We have that problem in Western Europe too, there are whole populations here having a brain but NOT using it to  processing facts because its not necessary for their survival, anymore, the just make up stuff so too "feel good".

[Manny]

This topic became somewhat of a mish mash of subjects.

All the off topic WW2 stuff has been added to the thread on that subject: here

Leo's questions to Markje - and his replies - have been moved to Markje's topic: here

The remaining topic has been moved to a more fitting room.

[ECR844]

Don't worry "Manny," our new troll will surely inject his ignorant vitriole at every opportunity. 

[Ste]

After that i walked the two of them home and...(nights are dangerous for girls) they invited me up to their appartment. WTF? The cousin was seducing me while the translator was making tea in the kitchin,...these girls are totally up for it if you want to have a good time.

As they are everywhere - u don't need to travel to FSU for that. You interested in Russian/Ukrainian language and culture? Is that was u seek a partner there?

[Leo512]

The context is a bit lost here, so i will do a short recap ,

Met a UW  over the internet, long correspondence, telephone calls, used independent translator (prevent kickbacks), she wanted to go to my appartment afterwards, i said "NO" , i wanted to drop her off at her place (it was night) she said she wanted money for the taxi , instead of me paying for the taxi directly (kickback). I said no!!, she exploded in a temper. I ended up hanging out with the translator and her cousin who i never met before, after i very good time on the town. They invited me up, stayed till 4am. So the latter experience is tangent to want i really was looking for, but i was in Odessa and i wasnt going to stay in my appartment for a whole week looking at a wall.


Right now taking Russian lessons, i find it easy to learn, and corresponding through the internet, not much success, (at least not with the women i like) so i guess i am soldering on and considering other options. That is why i am on this board, just trying to learn from other experiences.

Hope this clarifies a little