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Author Topic: Russian/Ukraine women  (Read 39735 times)

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Offline lindochka

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #150 on: September 19, 2009, 01:34:58 PM »
Photographing the ladies is not the issue, publishing the photos without their knowledge or consent could be an issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/technology/01link.html
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Offline supranatural

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #151 on: September 19, 2009, 04:03:44 PM »
Photographing the ladies is not the issue, publishing the photos without their knowledge or consent could be an issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/technology/01link.html

Both you and Alenika do not understand.  That article, which supports what I've stated before, is about using a photograph for publication in the process of making money.  Here is a quote:

********************
Instead, the case hinges on privacy, the right of people not to have their likeness used in an ad without permission. So, while Mr. Wong may have given away his rights as a photographer, he did not, and could not, give away Alison’s rights. In the lawsuit, which Mr. Wong is also a party to, there is an argument that Virgin did not honor all the terms of the nonrestrictive license.
********************

This quote is talking about using photos in ads.  This is not advertising.  I talk about posting photos on the internet, making personal prints of them, posting them in threads like this.  It's 100% LEGAL.

Further in the article they wrote:

********************
As for giving more advice about the rights of the subjects who appear in photographs, Mr. Lessig said that Creative Commons has to be careful not to provide “what looks like legal advice.” But, he added, “this photographer did nothing wrong when he took this photo of this girl, and posted it on his Flickr page. What he did wasn’t commercial use, which triggers the legal issues. If there was a problem here, it was by Virgin.”
********************

Posting a photograph of Alison Chang on a Flickr page, just as on ruadventures, does not constitute commercial use, or in other words, for money.  What Nunya does is 100% legal and ethical.


Offline supranatural

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #152 on: September 19, 2009, 04:05:28 PM »
I find nothing unethical about taking pictures in public and posting them.  The law is pretty clear on that throughout most of the world.
You don't find it unethical because law is not against it?

Is your question rhetorical?  Because I just clearly stated my stand on it.  So, no I don't find it unethical, not in the least.  Where do you think most laws come from?  The common consensus from people about what is right and wrong, in other words, what is ethical.  If enough people felt that it was unethical, eventually a law will be passed against it.  The fact that it's never, ever been suggested or attempted is strong evidence that very few people feel it is unethical.


Offline lindochka

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #153 on: September 19, 2009, 08:33:53 PM »
So RUA is now the equivalent of Flickr or other photo-sharing sites?

Okay, if you say so.

Quote
If enough people felt that it was unethical, eventually a law will be passed against it.  The fact that it's never, ever been suggested or attempted is strong evidence that very few people feel it is unethical.

You're kidding, right? Google much?
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Offline alenika

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #154 on: September 19, 2009, 10:39:44 PM »
I can help with google. This is what was on the first page when searching in yahoo with words "posting photos without permission":
http://www.dailyitem.com/homepage/local_story_281085933.html
http://lazygalquilting.blogspot.com/2008/09/etiquette-for-posting-photos.html - as you can see most people consider it unethical to post photos of others without asking permission. This is about ethics, not law.
http://www.mysecurecyberspace.com/encyclopedia/index/photo-sharing.html - "Respect the privacy of others. Avoid publishing information that could be used to identify and locate individuals in pictures. Never publish contact information along with pictures of individuals."

Concerning my quesiton above - it was not rethorical. That's exactly what I wanted to know about your point of view. You confuse ethics and law, while they are not always interconnected. Actually not interconnected at all. Laws speak about crimes against others, ethics is about care and respect to others, to humans in general too.

It seems that's the difference between two attitudes: "I do because I can." and "I do because I want and because this doesn't harm anyone".

I noticed that attitude "I do because I can" is wide-spread on these international dating forums. This is also explanation why it is completely ok for 60 y.o. men to pursue 18-20 y.o. girls from poor countries. Because they can and because it is not against law. But for me personally law is not the only measurementof  own actions. For example if I was 60 y.o. man from rich country I wouldn't go to, say, Thailand to shag kids even though I could. Or wouldn't beat up women in arabian countries even though this would be according laws. Or wouldn't marry 4 women even if was muslim. It seems you would do - as this is not against laws and because you can.

Btw there is new law in Afganistan: now women there have no rights to ever refuse to implement there spousal duties. This means rape is legal there. Maybe you'll go there to experience some additional legal actions?
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Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #155 on: September 19, 2009, 11:54:31 PM »


Certainly you are entitled to your opinion.  However, I seriously doubt any of these women dress to impress you, they dress to impress the men and do a good job of it.  And please point out to me which pictures show butt cheeks?  I've skimmed over most of them but don't recall butt cheeks.


I try not to participate in Jack's threads, he is on my ignore list and won't be able to look at his pictures again.

There were a lot chubby trashy looking women that he admired and I simply couldn't.

As for dress to impress... Men are very easily impressed, the more flesh they see the more impressed they are. That is why Ukrainian street have so many women who are dress like hookers. Women with self respect wont dress like that.

I wonder what do you think about this wedding dress?

 

Offline nunya

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #156 on: September 20, 2009, 01:23:40 AM »
Of course Wild Orchid won't know what I am writing, maybe someone will let her know that a great many of the women in these photos are Russian women from Russia and some of the photos that reveal the most are Russian women. What Wild orchid is saying without knowing it is that many of these Russian streets have so many women who dress like hookers. 

Offline mirror

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #157 on: September 20, 2009, 03:02:02 AM »
We all remember Nunya's night club girls in Ukr nearly with no dress at all...it was good advertisement!  :chuckle:

Offline hemingway

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #158 on: September 20, 2009, 05:07:20 AM »


Certainly you are entitled to your opinion.  However, I seriously doubt any of these women dress to impress you, they dress to impress the men and do a good job of it.  And please point out to me which pictures show butt cheeks?  I've skimmed over most of them but don't recall butt cheeks.


I try not to participate in Jack's threads, he is on my ignore list and won't be able to look at his pictures again.

There were a lot chubby trashy looking women that he admired and I simply couldn't.

As for dress to impress... Men are very easily impressed, the more flesh they see the more impressed they are. That is why Ukrainian street have so many women who are dress like hookers. Women with self respect wont dress like that.

I wonder what do you think about this wedding dress?

Of course, generalizations have exceptions. Not all men are that easily impressed. It is much sexier for some men when the lady is more selective about who sees what and leaves something for the imagination. I cringe when it is implied that there's not much more use for women than sex.

Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #159 on: September 20, 2009, 05:27:44 AM »


Of course, generalizations have exceptions.

yep.. guilty..  :-X

Offline msmoby

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #160 on: September 20, 2009, 05:38:12 AM »
Of course Wild Orchid won't know what I am writing, maybe someone will let her know that a great many of the women in these photos are Russian women from Russia and some of the photos that reveal the most are Russian women. What Wild orchid is saying without knowing it is that many of these Russian streets have so many women who dress like hookers.  

Hi Jack !

You might have guessed that I don't like your publishing shots of girls/ women in the street , but I'm quoting you as I WANT WO to know...what you said..

I think to say you'd only see FSU women so dressed in Ukraine is TOTALLY inaccurate.. and frankly not in line with a lot of WO's helpful posts :(
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Offline supranatural

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #161 on: September 20, 2009, 11:07:48 AM »
I can help with google. This is what was on the first page when searching in yahoo with words "posting photos without permission":
http://www.dailyitem.com/homepage/local_story_281085933.html
http://lazygalquilting.blogspot.com/2008/09/etiquette-for-posting-photos.html - as you can see most people consider it unethical to post photos of others without asking permission. This is about ethics, not law.
http://www.mysecurecyberspace.com/encyclopedia/index/photo-sharing.html - "Respect the privacy of others. Avoid publishing information that could be used to identify and locate individuals in pictures. Never publish contact information along with pictures of individuals."

Concerning my quesiton above - it was not rethorical. That's exactly what I wanted to know about your point of view. You confuse ethics and law, while they are not always interconnected. Actually not interconnected at all. Laws speak about crimes against others, ethics is about care and respect to others, to humans in general too.

It seems that's the difference between two attitudes: "I do because I can." and "I do because I want and because this doesn't harm anyone".

I noticed that attitude "I do because I can" is wide-spread on these international dating forums. This is also explanation why it is completely ok for 60 y.o. men to pursue 18-20 y.o. girls from poor countries. Because they can and because it is not against law. But for me personally law is not the only measurementof  own actions. For example if I was 60 y.o. man from rich country I wouldn't go to, say, Thailand to shag kids even though I could. Or wouldn't beat up women in arabian countries even though this would be according laws. Or wouldn't marry 4 women even if was muslim. It seems you would do - as this is not against laws and because you can.

Btw there is new law in Afganistan: now women there have no rights to ever refuse to implement there spousal duties. This means rape is legal there. Maybe you'll go there to experience some additional legal actions?


Interesting...so the opinions of a dozen people, with at least one that disagreed, constitutes "most" people?  I don't think so.

To answer your question....I would not do it, but if the girl is 18 or older, she is an adult and there is no law against a 60 yo man to pursue her.  I may not do it, but I cannot dictate to another country what they should or should not do.  That is for THAT country to decide.  Personally I won't go to Thailand to "shag" some child, nor would I beat up on a woman in a middle east country.  But if it was legal I wouldn't be against marrying 4 women.  Everyone has their own idea of ethics but there are laws that prevent people, like yourself, from pushing your idea of "ethics" onto other people.  Again, there are reasons laws are passed.  They are lines in a sand and despite your argument, many of them are based on ethics.  Is it ethical to kill another person?  No, unless we are talking self defense or accident, and there are laws that provide for this.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are in public and your picture taken, it's fair game.  It may not agree with your set of ethics, but you are free to lobby your local legislators to pass a law against it if you feel strongly enough about it.  The reality is 99% of the people out there couldn't care less and that's why it's not illegal. 

Offline supranatural

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #162 on: September 20, 2009, 11:17:50 AM »
Of course Wild Orchid won't know what I am writing, maybe someone will let her know that a great many of the women in these photos are Russian women from Russia and some of the photos that reveal the most are Russian women. What Wild orchid is saying without knowing it is that many of these Russian streets have so many women who dress like hookers.  

They are closing their eyes to reality.  I saw just as many women in Moscow with similar outfits.  I've been to both places and women dress similarly regardless.

Offline alenika

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #163 on: September 20, 2009, 12:46:57 PM »
quote author=alenika link=topic=6026.msg122211#msg122211 date=1253421584]
Interesting...so the opinions of a dozen people, with at least one that disagreed, constitutes "most" people?  I don't think so.
You didn't count correct. It is 26 posts. And I don't count all, but first 6 posts saying they are always asking permissions of the people whose photos they post. And then LazyGal gets convinced. From all opinions only 2-3 don't ask permission. This speaks about ethics - people feel wrong to do this. They respect others. What I am saying - posting these photos without permission of those who are on photos is disrespect to those people, that's why it is not ethical.

There are a lot of things which are not against of law, but still not ethical. Like betrayal of a friend, for example, leaving old parents without care. I am not pushing my ethics on everyone but talking exactly about you. You don't say why you think it is ethical for you personally to post photos of others even if they disagree, you only say that it's according law.

I say it is completely wrong for myself to post others'photos. You say it's completely right for yourself. But you give the only basement - the law. What is ethics for you then? Does it exist at all? For example, why you wouldn't got to middle east and beat women there? is it ethics or lack of desire only? Would you betray a friend if it was profitable? If not, then why not? Why not if it is not against law?
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Offline Eduard

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #164 on: September 20, 2009, 12:51:51 PM »
Of course Wild Orchid won't know what I am writing, maybe someone will let her know that a great many of the women in these photos are Russian women from Russia and some of the photos that reveal the most are Russian women. What Wild orchid is saying without knowing it is that many of these Russian streets have so many women who dress like hookers.  

They are closing their eyes to reality.  I saw just as many women in Moscow with similar outfits.  I've been to both places and women dress similarly regardless.
I agree...

Offline supranatural

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #165 on: September 20, 2009, 03:09:44 PM »
quote author=alenika link=topic=6026.msg122211#msg122211 date=1253421584]
Interesting...so the opinions of a dozen people, with at least one that disagreed, constitutes "most" people?  I don't think so.
You didn't count correct. It is 26 posts. And I don't count all, but first 6 posts saying they are always asking permissions of the people whose photos they post. And then LazyGal gets convinced. From all opinions only 2-3 don't ask permission. This speaks about ethics - people feel wrong to do this. They respect others. What I am saying - posting these photos without permission of those who are on photos is disrespect to those people, that's why it is not ethical.

There are a lot of things which are not against of law, but still not ethical. Like betrayal of a friend, for example, leaving old parents without care. I am not pushing my ethics on everyone but talking exactly about you. You don't say why you think it is ethical for you personally to post photos of others even if they disagree, you only say that it's according law.

I say it is completely wrong for myself to post others'photos. You say it's completely right for yourself. But you give the only basement - the law. What is ethics for you then? Does it exist at all? For example, why you wouldn't got to middle east and beat women there? is it ethics or lack of desire only? Would you betray a friend if it was profitable? If not, then why not? Why not if it is not against law?


I don't care how many posts it took to convince that one person.  There were opposing posts as well.  That's her decision.  That's fine, she has to do what she feels is right.  I am completely in my rights to post photos.  End of story. 

As I said to you before, everyone has their idea of what is ethical and not.  To me in the case of photographs, I think it is 100% ethical - if you're in public, you're picture is there for the taking and non-profit posting.  The law exists so people like you cannot push your idea of ethics on people like me.  I won't beat up on anyone unless provoked and in self defense, that is my ethics.  You may choose differently and that's what the law is for, a common set of ethics we can agree on.  Would I betray a friend if it was profitable?  No, but I have had it happen to me.  But then it's my fault for not guarding myself against it, it's not against the law so I have no complaints.  If you feel it's unethical, you can choose not to do it or to not even read the thread.  You can even try to push your idea of ethics onto others but it won't work.  That's why there are laws.

Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #166 on: September 20, 2009, 07:45:32 PM »

They are closing their eyes to reality.  I saw just as many women in Moscow with similar outfits.  I've been to both places and women dress similarly regardless.

are we? Go to Jack's website and look at photos from his socials in Ukraine and Russia. May be you are not able to spot the difference but I can. And not only in dress sense but in behavior pattern as well.

Those photos from Ukrainian socials are a laughing stock of Russian forums. Women from them called Ukrainian sluts that sell themselves to Americans and nothing else.

I know this argument is pointless, we are closing our eyes, we are not able to understand, we don't know what we are talking about. Only men can and know... Been thorough this before, you didn't say anything new to me  ::)

Offline supranatural

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #167 on: September 20, 2009, 08:48:04 PM »

They are closing their eyes to reality.  I saw just as many women in Moscow with similar outfits.  I've been to both places and women dress similarly regardless.

are we? Go to Jack's website and look at photos from his socials in Ukraine and Russia. May be you are not able to spot the difference but I can. And not only in dress sense but in behavior pattern as well.

Those photos from Ukrainian socials are a laughing stock of Russian forums. Women from them called Ukrainian sluts that sell themselves to Americans and nothing else.

And RW don't sell themselves to WM at socials and parties???  Doesn't matter how the RW act at the parties, their aim is the same as the UW which is to attract a WM, which in turn makes them RW sluts.  The ONLY way RW can point a finger at the UW sisters is if they never go to parties or try to attract a WM and we all know they do as well as the UW.  It's all stupid to call other women sluts and tells me that the women calling other women sluts have serious emotional issues and can't deal with someone who dresses differently than they do.

Calling someone a slut because of the way they dress is prejudice plain and simple.  Is it ethical to judge someone by the way they dress and not the person they are?  I suppose that's where you and I differ in our "ethics" as well.  I don't prejudge someone by their appearances.

Offline alenika

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #168 on: September 20, 2009, 09:29:23 PM »
As I said to you before, everyone has their idea of what is ethical and not.  To me in the case of photographs, I think it is 100% ethical - if you're in public, you're picture is there for the taking and non-profit posting.  The law exists so people like you cannot push your idea of ethics on people like me.  I won't beat up on anyone unless provoked and in self defense, that is my ethics.  You may choose differently and that's what the law is for, a common set of ethics we can agree on.  Would I betray a friend if it was profitable?  No, but I have had it happen to me.  But then it's my fault for not guarding myself against it, it's not against the law so I have no complaints.  If you feel it's unethical, you can choose not to do it or to not even read the thread.  You can even try to push your idea of ethics onto others but it won't work.  That's why there are laws.
That's I understand and don't argue. What I wanted to show is that you referrring to law when there is talk about ethics has no bases. You tell yourself you wouldn't betray your friend even though laws allow. Therefore you have own ethics which is not connected to laws. Let's return to your ethics then. - when I come back from work  ;D tiphat


PS: Or better will not return  tiphat   ;D
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Offline Halo

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #169 on: September 20, 2009, 10:09:08 PM »
[Those photos from Ukrainian socials are a laughing stock of Russian forums. Women from them called Ukrainian sluts that sell themselves to Americans and nothing else.

All this proves is the neanderthal level of intellectual development on those particular Russian women forums.

Incidentally, American women over a certain age say the same things about Russian women - they don't know how to dress, they all look like sluts, etc.  Following your "logic",  we must conclude AW are models of propriety vis a vis Russian women.
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Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #170 on: September 20, 2009, 10:17:17 PM »

And RW don't sell themselves to WM at socials and parties???  Doesn't matter how the RW act at the parties, their aim is the same as the UW which is to attract a WM, which in turn makes them RW sluts. 
I've never been to the socials, was too old to be invited (30 is ancient for this sort of parties) so I can judge only looking at those photos. Don't forget it is Russian people that make those comments when they look at the pictures. And if I see RW sitting around tables trying to have conversation, no revealing clothing, and UW pushing their bums into man's groins in very tight pants, crop-tops, boobs out, will you blame me for having my opinion on them?  ::)

Why RW don't agree to play  those stupid degrading women games and UW do? They all are strangers to each other!!!!

And no, I don't think this type of women are my sisters, no way.

And it wasn't me who argued with you about ethics, but if you insist I think it is wrong to perv on women on the streets and take photos without them knowing or permitting, you think it is OK. I don't think woman who values herself would feel a need to dress so provocatively so every man would follow her with his gaze, you think women live for that. We have totally different opinion on women, I don't respect women that you admire. I think woman has to be classy, you think her aim is to attract man's attention, doesn't matter how old or ugly he is.

Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #171 on: September 20, 2009, 10:25:14 PM »


All this proves is the neanderthal level of intellectual development on those particular Russian women forums.

Incidentally, American women over a certain age say the same things about Russian women - they don't know how to dress, they all look like sluts, etc.  Following your "logic",  we must conclude AW are models of propriety vis a vis Russian women.

all I know that not me, not my Russian friends or relatives dress like women from those socials. I don't put myself on the same level with them and  I have no respect for those women. If your woman like that, you know what I'd think of her. Does it bother you what i think? It is your problem, not mine. 

I know a lot of UW who don't dress like those women. May bee because they don't feel the need to attract someone like you  :P

Offline Halo

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #172 on: September 20, 2009, 10:28:29 PM »

Why RW don't agree to play  those stupid degrading women games and UW do? They all are strangers to each other!!!!

And no, I don't think this type of women are my sisters, no way.

You can see the same behaviours among RW.  You can see them among Western women too, if you go to clubs.  The only difference is in the latter case, the young hotties are not grinding old men.  :evilgrin0002:

Incidentally, most of these behaviours are in predominantly Russified regions of Ukraine.   You don't see many of such socials in L'viv, or Ivano Frankivsk, or Uzhorod.
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Offline Halo

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #173 on: September 20, 2009, 10:30:29 PM »


All this proves is the neanderthal level of intellectual development on those particular Russian women forums.

Incidentally, American women over a certain age say the same things about Russian women - they don't know how to dress, they all look like sluts, etc.  Following your "logic",  we must conclude AW are models of propriety vis a vis Russian women.

all I know that not me, not my Russian friends or relatives dress like women from those socials. I don't put myself on the same level with them and  I have no respect for those women. If your woman like that, you know what I'd think of her. Does it bother you what i think? It is your problem, not mine. 

I know a lot of UW who don't dress like those women. May bee because they don't feel the need to attract someone like you  :P

No, what you think doesn't bother me.   And I don't need to attract a UW, because I'm married to a RM.
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Offline Wild Orchid

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Re: Russian/Ukraine women
« Reply #174 on: September 20, 2009, 10:40:11 PM »

No, what you think doesn't bother me.   And I don't need to attract a UW, because I'm married to a RM.

Poor woman


 

 

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