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Author Topic: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?  (Read 20006 times)

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Offline Eduard

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2013, 11:34:00 PM »
This is all you need to know about Russian culture:

Russians are more comfortable, on average, lying, cheating and stealing than Americans

Russians are very defensive and quick to deflect accountability

Russians are intelligent, educated but psychologically dysfunctional with bursts of brilliance thrown in to confuse you

Russians have a good sense of humor

There are no Russian optimists

Russians drink too much

Russian women are gorgeous, leggy and passionate (that is, if you can catch one!)

So, it is clear now why WM are so interested in Russian culture?  :smokin:

Tomorrow's lesson will be on Ukrainian culture  ;D
wow, how many Russians do you personally know to make a general statement like this about a couple of hundred million people?

Offline Phelan

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2013, 02:44:43 PM »
This is all you need to know about Russian culture:

Russians are more comfortable, on average, lying, cheating and stealing than Americans

Russians are very defensive and quick to deflect accountability

Russians are intelligent, educated but psychologically dysfunctional with bursts of brilliance thrown in to confuse you

Russians have a good sense of humor

There are no Russian optimists

Russians drink too much

Russian women are gorgeous, leggy and passionate (that is, if you can catch one!)

So, it is clear now why WM are so interested in Russian culture?  :smokin:

Tomorrow's lesson will be on Ukrainian culture  ;D
wow, how many Russians do you personally know to make a general statement like this about a couple of hundred million people?

I only know 116 million ethnic Russians. And I see you're supporting for point number two.  ;D

Eduard, I'm just having a little fun. But there's more than a grain of truth to what I said. By the way, these are the stereotypes that the Russians themselves will tell you.  :laugh:  I happen to love (and like) all the real Russians I know. Do we have an emoticon for tongue-in-cheek?

Offline Eduard

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2013, 03:06:19 PM »
This is all you need to know about Russian culture:

Russians are more comfortable, on average, lying, cheating and stealing than Americans

Russians are very defensive and quick to deflect accountability

Russians are intelligent, educated but psychologically dysfunctional with bursts of brilliance thrown in to confuse you

Russians have a good sense of humor

There are no Russian optimists

Russians drink too much

Russian women are gorgeous, leggy and passionate (that is, if you can catch one!)

So, it is clear now why WM are so interested in Russian culture?  :smokin:

Tomorrow's lesson will be on Ukrainian culture  ;D
wow, how many Russians do you personally know to make a general statement like this about a couple of hundred million people?

I only know 116 million ethnic Russians. And I see you're supporting for point number two.  ;D

Eduard, I'm just having a little fun. But there's more than a grain of truth to what I said. By the way, these are the stereotypes that the Russians themselves will tell you.  :laugh:  I happen to love (and like) all the real Russians I know. Do we have an emoticon for tongue-in-cheek?
Sure, I understand... but as they say in Ukraine: "every joke has some joke in it".
having lived in the US for more than 30 years I just feel that the same thing can be said about every nationality, including Americans... I find that people are very similar everywhere you go and there are all kinds. Sometimes you'd think there is a clone for every person you meet in another country who has similar looks and personality, but speaks a different language. Has any one noticed this?


Offline Boris

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2013, 05:24:38 PM »
"every joke has some joke in it".

My wife says this all the time....I just shake my head... :nod:

Online mhr7

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2013, 05:46:15 PM »
"every joke has some joke in it".

My wife says this all the time....I just shake my head... :nod:
I've been driven insane by this myself.

Online AvHdB

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2013, 11:53:04 PM »
Where is the looney bin when you need it?
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Eduard

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2013, 07:26:49 AM »
This proverb has wisdom, dunno why you fellas have such an issue with it  :)

Offline Boris

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2013, 04:47:30 PM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Offline Phelan

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2013, 09:21:46 PM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Agreed. Sometimes you read about the rush to provide Russian television, find a local Russian club or something for their new wives. That doesn't make sense to me. I say, dig in where you are and make it work. Don't keep looking over your shoulder.

Offline Eduard

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2013, 11:30:16 AM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Agreed. Sometimes you read about the rush to provide Russian television, find a local Russian club or something for their new wives. That doesn't make sense to me. I say, dig in where you are and make it work. Don't keep looking over your shoulder.
+1  tiphat

Online andrewfi

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2013, 06:27:39 AM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Agreed. Sometimes you read about the rush to provide Russian television, find a local Russian club or something for their new wives. That doesn't make sense to me. I say, dig in where you are and make it work. Don't keep looking over your shoulder.
+1  tiphat

I doubt that those who think that cultural isolation is a good thing have ever been through the process of moving to a new country, alone and without language.

Even if one already knows a little of the target language communicating solely in that language is hugely stressful. The first time I was in that situation by the end of each day I was worn out and often with a headache. To read an English newspaper or hear an English voice was a blessed relief and to be able to talk to somebody in my own language was like a brief vacation.

I have to say that by the time I reached my third such change I pretty much did not bother any longer, the stress of NOT being fluent is less than the stress of trying to be fluent. In all cases though I DID have regular contact and access to fluent users of my language.

It seems kinda pointless to try to foist one's newly arrived bride of upon a social group that she knows nothing about and I can see how that is likely, given the lack of knowledge of the men, to be counter productive, but to keep someone a virtual prisoner by enforcing use of a difficult new language and denying cultural access is cruelty. I wonder how far a claim of abuse would fly if a woman was able to demonstrate that she had been denied access to social cultural or linguistic resources in her own language. My guess is that this WOULD be seen as abusive.

It is all very well when making claims of 'success' in relationships but how many of these 'successes' are short term and based upon such abusive treatment.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline d672

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2013, 08:24:00 PM »




Even if one already knows a little of the target language communicating solely in that language is hugely stressful. The first time I was in that situation by the end of each day I was worn out and often with a headache. To read an English newspaper or hear an English voice was a blessed relief and to be able to talk to somebody in my own language was like a brief vacation.



 I agree 100% with this. I felt the same way when I was in London.   :laugh:

Offline Phelan

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2013, 08:41:57 PM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Agreed. Sometimes you read about the rush to provide Russian television, find a local Russian club or something for their new wives. That doesn't make sense to me. I say, dig in where you are and make it work. Don't keep looking over your shoulder.
+1  tiphat

I doubt that those who think that cultural isolation is a good thing have ever been through the process of moving to a new country, alone and without language.

Even if one already knows a little of the target language communicating solely in that language is hugely stressful. The first time I was in that situation by the end of each day I was worn out and often with a headache. To read an English newspaper or hear an English voice was a blessed relief and to be able to talk to somebody in my own language was like a brief vacation.

I have to say that by the time I reached my third such change I pretty much did not bother any longer, the stress of NOT being fluent is less than the stress of trying to be fluent. In all cases though I DID have regular contact and access to fluent users of my language.

It seems kinda pointless to try to foist one's newly arrived bride of upon a social group that she knows nothing about and I can see how that is likely, given the lack of knowledge of the men, to be counter productive, but to keep someone a virtual prisoner by enforcing use of a difficult new language and denying cultural access is cruelty. I wonder how far a claim of abuse would fly if a woman was able to demonstrate that she had been denied access to social cultural or linguistic resources in her own language. My guess is that this WOULD be seen as abusive.

It is all very well when making claims of 'success' in relationships but how many of these 'successes' are short term and based upon such abusive treatment.

One of the more boneheaded posts I've seen here.

Offline Halo

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2013, 08:44:51 PM »
One of the more boneheaded posts I've seen here.

Really?  How many years did you spend in a foreign country, surrounded by a language you didn't understand, or even a language you did understand fluently, but the culture was very different from your own?

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline welder

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 09:12:18 PM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Agreed. Sometimes you read about the rush to provide Russian television, find a local Russian club or something for their new wives. That doesn't make sense to me. I say, dig in where you are and make it work. Don't keep looking over your shoulder.
+1  tiphat

I doubt that those who think that cultural isolation is a good thing have ever been through the process of moving to a new country, alone and without language.

Even if one already knows a little of the target language communicating solely in that language is hugely stressful. The first time I was in that situation by the end of each day I was worn out and often with a headache. To read an English newspaper or hear an English voice was a blessed relief and to be able to talk to somebody in my own language was like a brief vacation.

I have to say that by the time I reached my third such change I pretty much did not bother any longer, the stress of NOT being fluent is less than the stress of trying to be fluent. In all cases though I DID have regular contact and access to fluent users of my language.


It seems kinda pointless to try to foist one's newly arrived bride of upon a social group that she knows nothing about and I can see how that is likely, given the lack of knowledge of the men, to be counter productive, but to keep someone a virtual prisoner by enforcing use of a difficult new language and denying cultural access is cruelty. I wonder how far a claim of abuse would fly if a woman was able to demonstrate that she had been denied access to social cultural or linguistic resources in her own language. My guess is that this WOULD be seen as abusive.

It is all very well when making claims of 'success' in relationships but how many of these 'successes' are short term and based upon such abusive treatment.

Highlighted above, remember those experiences very well.  My experiences have resulted in a similar outlook Andrew.  Now days I couldn't care of learning another language as I spend time in new countries and cultures, other than of course out of sheer curiosity.  I do want to learn more Russian as my children learn to converse with grandma and grandpa in their moms native tongue. 

I know for a fact that my wife enjoyed talking in Russian with her girlfriends.  If for nothing else than to vent and comfort hearing the language.  She missed home less when she had an opportunity to do this during the beginning. 

In her own time she moved completely the opposite direction.  Now she trips up a little, for a couple of days, when she returns home as her brain is stuck in English mode.

Offline Phelan

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2013, 09:32:35 PM »
Back to the topic...To answer truthfully, no. It turned out to be much more important for her to master English. And, lucky for me, she is very smart and realized this intuitively from the very beginning. She wanted no Russian TV, radio, etc. from the very beginning--even though I offered...

Agreed. Sometimes you read about the rush to provide Russian television, find a local Russian club or something for their new wives. That doesn't make sense to me. I say, dig in where you are and make it work. Don't keep looking over your shoulder.
+1  tiphat

I doubt that those who think that cultural isolation is a good thing have ever been through the process of moving to a new country, alone and without language.

Even if one already knows a little of the target language communicating solely in that language is hugely stressful. The first time I was in that situation by the end of each day I was worn out and often with a headache. To read an English newspaper or hear an English voice was a blessed relief and to be able to talk to somebody in my own language was like a brief vacation.

I have to say that by the time I reached my third such change I pretty much did not bother any longer, the stress of NOT being fluent is less than the stress of trying to be fluent. In all cases though I DID have regular contact and access to fluent users of my language.


It seems kinda pointless to try to foist one's newly arrived bride of upon a social group that she knows nothing about and I can see how that is likely, given the lack of knowledge of the men, to be counter productive, but to keep someone a virtual prisoner by enforcing use of a difficult new language and denying cultural access is cruelty. I wonder how far a claim of abuse would fly if a woman was able to demonstrate that she had been denied access to social cultural or linguistic resources in her own language. My guess is that this WOULD be seen as abusive.

It is all very well when making claims of 'success' in relationships but how many of these 'successes' are short term and based upon such abusive treatment.

Highlighted above, remember those experiences very well.  My experiences have resulted in a similar outlook Andrew.  Now days I couldn't care of learning another language as I spend time in new countries and cultures, other than of course out of sheer curiosity.  I do want to learn more Russian as my children learn to converse with grandma and grandpa in their moms native tongue. 

I know for a fact that my wife enjoyed talking in Russian with her girlfriends.  If for nothing else than to vent and comfort hearing the language.  She missed home less when she had an opportunity to do this during the beginning. 

In her own time she moved completely the opposite direction.  Now she trips up a little, for a couple of days, when she returns home as her brain is stuck in English mode.

Are you fluent in Russian? If yes, was that essential to your success in marriage, and if you had not obtained fluency in Russian, you claim your marriage would have failed? And you are advising future FSU wife hunters that achieving fluency in her language is make or break, and don't bother because you will have a failed marriage if you do not become fluent in her language?

The truth is the opposite. The make or break on the marriage (assuming you come to US, for example) is that she develops the  highest level of fluency in the language of the country where she has come to make her life with her husband. If she doesn't want to live an English-speaking life, she shouldn't marry an American.

Offline missAmeno

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2013, 10:38:13 PM »
If she doesn't want to live an English-speaking life, she shouldn't marry an American.

Sorry but can not stop feeling sorry for your wife.

BTW, Andrew is right about feeling isolated and frustrated by constant listening of foreigner language to you. Been there, done that and still there. Arrived in London with 3 words: coffee, taxi and  :censored: off. First two sound same in Russian and third knew from American movies. Of course was picking up English fast but hey ho I lost a count after just few months how many times I wanted to climb on the wall. Constantly feeling stupid because doesn't matter how hard you try either no one understands you or they assume they understand you when in fact they nowhere close to understand what you really trying to say. Initially trying over and over explaining what you really mean, overtime accepting that it is pointless and surrendering into depressing feeling of being someone who capable at it its best express herself as a 3 years old. Oh well OK 5yo. 13 years later my English is still mediocre, I still unable express myself as well as I would like to in English.
Lack of common language did break my marriage (well if there would have been common language there wouldn't have been marriage in the first place). And no, expressing yourself on a very limited basic vocabulary is not a common language. The expectation that I must be the one who learns and understands him while he is not bothered whatsoever to do same for me does nothing more then displays how inconsiderate and selfish he is.
Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, ideals, thoughts, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.

Offline welder

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2013, 10:52:14 PM »
Highlighted above, remember those experiences very well.  My experiences have resulted in a similar outlook Andrew.  Now days I couldn't care of learning another language as I spend time in new countries and cultures, other than of course out of sheer curiosity.  I do want to learn more Russian as my children learn to converse with grandma and grandpa in their moms native tongue. 

I know for a fact that my wife enjoyed talking in Russian with her girlfriends.  If for nothing else than to vent and comfort hearing the language.  She missed home less when she had an opportunity to do this during the beginning. 

In her own time she moved completely the opposite direction.  Now she trips up a little, for a couple of days, when she returns home as her brain is stuck in English mode.

Are you fluent in Russian? If yes, was that essential to your success in marriage, and if you had not obtained fluency in Russian, you claim your marriage would have failed? And you are advising future FSU wife hunters that achieving fluency in her language is make or break, and don't bother because you will have a failed marriage if you do not become fluent in her language?

The truth is the opposite. The make or break on the marriage (assuming you come to US, for example) is that she develops the  highest level of fluency in the language of the country where she has come to make her life with her husband. If she doesn't want to live an English-speaking life, she shouldn't marry an American.

Phelan, slow down and read what I highlighted and my response.  Appreciate the fact you are in a debate but do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth.  I expressed my opinions on the highlighted.

Please show me where I claim anything about my marriage failing due to fluency in Russian.

Please show me where I claim fluency in Russian is a prerequisite for FSU wife hunters.

As you cannot provide a link to either request above I would appreciate the courtesy of being quoted in the future.

Offline Eduard

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2013, 11:09:17 PM »
I believe that learning by complete immersion can work. Yes, it can be uncomfortable for a while, even stressful...so?

Offline Eduard

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2013, 11:16:14 PM »
There are lots of FSUans in the USA nowdays, and your wife will bump into and make friends with some of them whether you want it or not. There are also different city groups on Russian social networking sites like odnoklassniki as well as facebook. So I wouldn't worry about helping your wife to find friends, she will do it at her own speed when good and ready. As far as getting Russian TV and such each couple should make their own decision on this. People are different and what works for one may not necessarily work for another.

Offline Phelan

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2013, 11:17:54 PM »
If she doesn't want to live an English-speaking life, she shouldn't marry an American.

Sorry but can not stop feeling sorry for your wife.

There's a word for that tactic in debating, can't recall what it is, but it's related to lowlife irrelevancy and pathetic. My wife is a very happy girl, by the way, has been for many years now. I forget, you're divorced, right? Husband didn't learn enough Russian?

Offline Phelan

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2013, 11:19:12 PM »
Highlighted above, remember those experiences very well.  My experiences have resulted in a similar outlook Andrew.  Now days I couldn't care of learning another language as I spend time in new countries and cultures, other than of course out of sheer curiosity.  I do want to learn more Russian as my children learn to converse with grandma and grandpa in their moms native tongue. 

I know for a fact that my wife enjoyed talking in Russian with her girlfriends.  If for nothing else than to vent and comfort hearing the language.  She missed home less when she had an opportunity to do this during the beginning. 

In her own time she moved completely the opposite direction.  Now she trips up a little, for a couple of days, when she returns home as her brain is stuck in English mode.

Are you fluent in Russian? If yes, was that essential to your success in marriage, and if you had not obtained fluency in Russian, you claim your marriage would have failed? And you are advising future FSU wife hunters that achieving fluency in her language is make or break, and don't bother because you will have a failed marriage if you do not become fluent in her language?

The truth is the opposite. The make or break on the marriage (assuming you come to US, for example) is that she develops the  highest level of fluency in the language of the country where she has come to make her life with her husband. If she doesn't want to live an English-speaking life, she shouldn't marry an American.

Phelan, slow down and read what I highlighted and my response.  Appreciate the fact you are in a debate but do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth.  I expressed my opinions on the highlighted.

Please show me where I claim anything about my marriage failing due to fluency in Russian.

Please show me where I claim fluency in Russian is a prerequisite for FSU wife hunters.

As you cannot provide a link to either request above I would appreciate the courtesy of being quoted in the future.

There's a long string of nested quotes there, I may have gotten some connection incorrect. My apologies.

Offline missAmeno

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2013, 11:21:36 PM »
I believe that learning by complete immersion can work.

Of course its works.

Yes, it can be uncomfortable for a while, even stressful...so?

So who actually needs a type of significant other who would on purpose make something uncomfortable and stressful?
Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, ideals, thoughts, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.

Offline Halo

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2013, 11:22:23 PM »
I believe that learning by complete immersion can work. Yes, it can be uncomfortable for a while, even stressful...so?

You are not dealing with one stress factor, though.  There is leaving family behind, coming to a new, foreign culture where your education means almost nothing, to a new marriage and learning to live with someone you (often) barely know, often dealing with an unfriendly environment, coping with new food, not knowing how the society functions.  So, there can be a stress overload.

Ed, you have never been through this.  You emigrated with your parents, so while immersed in the culture, you were not only younger, but could hear your native tongue.  Same with your wife. 

I remember landing in Kiev, and meeting an Australian of Ukrainian descent, now a prominent professor in the West.  Even with his native fluency and ability to navigate the system "like a fish", he always enjoyed meeting Westerners who spoke English, for our attitudes were like his, and the opportunity to express one's opinion in one's native tongue (in his case, actually, a second tongue) was always welcome.   I remember this feeling as well. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Halo

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Re: Is Learning Your Partners Language Important to your Relationship?
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »
If she doesn't want to live an English-speaking life, she shouldn't marry an American.

Sorry but can not stop feeling sorry for your wife.

There's a word for that tactic in debating, can't recall what it is, but it's related to lowlife irrelevancy and pathetic. My wife is a very happy girl, by the way, has been for many years now. I forget, you're divorced, right? Husband didn't learn enough Russian?


You have no idea the pain she has been through, and it has nothing to do with Russian.

But I suppose it was worth mentioning her pain in order to win the "point", right?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten


 

 

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