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Author Topic: Children: Learn Russian & English together from birth, or learn Russian later?  (Read 26141 times)

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Offline redroo

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My boy got Russian from birth exclusively from Mom, English from me, and it never slowed him up any. In fact he is bright enough to be given "extension" courses at school because his Aussie class mates are slowing him up and he is bored. Of course he has half his mothers genes, so imagine how bright he could have been?  :hidechair:  :chuckle:

Offline Manny

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I wanted to update this topic - three years later - for the benefit of others.

Our daughter is now three. Almost four.

My wife speaks to her maybe 50% in Russian; I speak to her only in English.

She understands English and Russian. She has gravitated towards English. She mostly speaks English, but sometimes breaks out in Russian. To her, she is learning words - she has no concept they are different languages; but she knows she has two words for some things. She sometimes mixes them up in the same sentence.

She might say "Daddy, telly gronka" (Daddy, make the television louder)

When in Russia for a month, she spoke mostly Russian. Except for her daily calls with me where she spoke mostly English. She understands already how to speak to me and how to speak to her mother. She knows which words to use with which parent. She flips from Russian to English between my wife and I. Amazing really........

She will say "Mama, sok" and if ignored, come to me and say "Daddy, juice".

When she brings a book she wants one of us to read to her, my wife can do both languages seamlessly. When she brings me a Cyrillic book, and insists "Daddy read", I start to read it and she falls about the floor laughing. She understands already that when I read Cyrillic, my inflection is not right.

Typically, if you ask her a question in Russian, she will reply in English.

I wanted to give an update on this - yet another year later.

In the last year her spoken Russian (but not her understanding) had all but faded way in favour of English. She understood anything said to her in Russian but would only reply in English. Her English vocabulary is exceptional for a child of her age.

My wife and daughter just recently got back from over a month in Russia. Our daughter is now four, heading towards five.

While in Russia, our daughter on this visit had little opportunity to speak in English (apart from to me on the phone) as my wife was determined she was going to speak Russian properly and not the odd word; or replying to Russian in English. So communication in English wasn't an option from touchdown.

That means she had to speak Russian in Russia this visit. We always knew she understood it well enough, but she was shy to speak. Well, this time she had no choice. And as flicking a switch, once she realised the folks weren't replying to English, and her mother would only speak Russian to her, and after a few days of frustration, she switched to Russian. But not honky plonky Russian as I speak; proper Russian as any Russian kid her age would speak. It was hiding in her brain all the time as suspected. Four years of my wife speaking Russian to her had sunk in. :king:

When they came home, her English language had regressed to a worrying extent and was mixed with Russian. A week or so on, she has got her little mind around it and can now switch seamlessly between both languages. Now she can chat to the folks on the phone. My wife now tests her translation skills by saying "Go and tell Daddy this..." in Russian. And she comes and tells me in English.

A child's mind is the most amazing thing. Their capacity to absorb, store and process information is such that adults can only dream of.

I think its fair to say that my concerns from several years ago were groundless, and at the age of four, our daughter is truly bilingual. She is at the stage now where it isn't going to go away; it can only develop further. From here on in, my wife will speak to her only in Russian when they are alone in order that it continues to develop. She will get enough English from me, family, media and school.
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Offline Mikeav8r

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I wanted to update this topic - three years later - for the benefit of others.

Our daughter is now three. Almost four.

My wife speaks to her maybe 50% in Russian; I speak to her only in English.

She understands English and Russian. She has gravitated towards English. She mostly speaks English, but sometimes breaks out in Russian. To her, she is learning words - she has no concept they are different languages; but she knows she has two words for some things. She sometimes mixes them up in the same sentence.

She might say "Daddy, telly gronka" (Daddy, make the television louder)

When in Russia for a month, she spoke mostly Russian. Except for her daily calls with me where she spoke mostly English. She understands already how to speak to me and how to speak to her mother. She knows which words to use with which parent. She flips from Russian to English between my wife and I. Amazing really........

She will say "Mama, sok" and if ignored, come to me and say "Daddy, juice".

When she brings a book she wants one of us to read to her, my wife can do both languages seamlessly. When she brings me a Cyrillic book, and insists "Daddy read", I start to read it and she falls about the floor laughing. She understands already that when I read Cyrillic, my inflection is not right.

Typically, if you ask her a question in Russian, she will reply in English.

I wanted to give an update on this - yet another year later.

In the last year her spoken Russian (but not her understanding) had all but faded way in favour of English. She understood anything said to her in Russian but would only reply in English. Her English vocabulary is exceptional for a child of her age.

My wife and daughter just recently got back from over a month in Russia. Our daughter is now four, heading towards five.

While in Russia, our daughter on this visit had little opportunity to speak in English (apart from to me on the phone) as my wife was determined she was going to speak Russian properly and not the odd word; or replying to Russian in English. So communication in English wasn't an option from touchdown.

That means she had to speak Russian in Russia this visit. We always knew she understood it well enough, but she was shy to speak. Well, this time she had no choice. And as flicking a switch, once she realised the folks weren't replying to English, and her mother would only speak Russian to her, and after a few days of frustration, she switched to Russian. But not honky plonky Russian as I speak; proper Russian as any Russian kid her age would speak. It was hiding in her brain all the time as suspected. Four years of my wife speaking Russian to her had sunk in. :king:

When they came home, her English language had regressed to a worrying extent and was mixed with Russian. A week or so on, she has got her little mind around it and can now switch seamlessly between both languages. Now she can chat to the folks on the phone. My wife now tests her translation skills by saying "Go and tell Daddy this..." in Russian. And she comes and tells me in English.

A child's mind is the most amazing thing. Their capacity to absorb, store and process information is such that adults can only dream of.

I think its fair to say that my concerns from several years ago were groundless, and at the age of four, our daughter is truly bilingual. She is at the stage now where it isn't going to go away; it can only develop further. From here on in, my wife will speak to her only in Russian when they are alone in order that it continues to develop. She will get enough English from me, family, media and school.

That's incredible.  Good to hear the wife is insisting on native Russian as well.  She will be a hit in school :)
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Offline Justmd

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This is what we understand when her 6yr old arrives here soon...I hope.

I called the local school system in my area and was told they would like to see this little one within 2 days of his arrival to determine his English and then he will be placed in a 1st grade English only speaking classroom...We both think this is to fast and to much drama for this little guy but I was told that a child this young will pick up a new language very fast and is the best way.

We will see...

Offline Eduard

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This is what we understand when her 6yr old arrives here soon...I hope.

I called the local school system in my area and was told they would like to see this little one within 2 days of his arrival to determine his English and then he will be placed in a 1st grade English only speaking classroom...We both think this is to fast and to much drama for this little guy but I was told that a child this young will pick up a new language very fast and is the best way.

We will see...
yes, he'll be speaking pretty good English in a matter of about 3 months...without an accent I might add!

Offline Eduard

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My girls are 4 and 7 yo now and they speak real funny mixing English and Russian words in the same sentence...  (:)

Offline Chris

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I wanted to update this topic - three years later - for the benefit of others.

Our daughter is now three. Almost four.

My wife speaks to her maybe 50% in Russian; I speak to her only in English.

She understands English and Russian. She has gravitated towards English. She mostly speaks English, but sometimes breaks out in Russian. To her, she is learning words - she has no concept they are different languages; but she knows she has two words for some things. She sometimes mixes them up in the same sentence.

She might say "Daddy, telly gronka" (Daddy, make the television louder)

When in Russia for a month, she spoke mostly Russian. Except for her daily calls with me where she spoke mostly English. She understands already how to speak to me and how to speak to her mother. She knows which words to use with which parent. She flips from Russian to English between my wife and I. Amazing really........

She will say "Mama, sok" and if ignored, come to me and say "Daddy, juice".

When she brings a book she wants one of us to read to her, my wife can do both languages seamlessly. When she brings me a Cyrillic book, and insists "Daddy read", I start to read it and she falls about the floor laughing. She understands already that when I read Cyrillic, my inflection is not right.

Typically, if you ask her a question in Russian, she will reply in English.

I wanted to give an update on this - yet another year later.

In the last year her spoken Russian (but not her understanding) had all but faded way in favour of English. She understood anything said to her in Russian but would only reply in English. Her English vocabulary is exceptional for a child of her age.

My wife and daughter just recently got back from over a month in Russia. Our daughter is now four, heading towards five.

While in Russia, our daughter on this visit had little opportunity to speak in English (apart from to me on the phone) as my wife was determined she was going to speak Russian properly and not the odd word; or replying to Russian in English. So communication in English wasn't an option from touchdown.

That means she had to speak Russian in Russia this visit. We always knew she understood it well enough, but she was shy to speak. Well, this time she had no choice. And as flicking a switch, once she realised the folks weren't replying to English, and her mother would only speak Russian to her, and after a few days of frustration, she switched to Russian. But not honky plonky Russian as I speak; proper Russian as any Russian kid her age would speak. It was hiding in her brain all the time as suspected. Four years of my wife speaking Russian to her had sunk in. :king:

When they came home, her English language had regressed to a worrying extent and was mixed with Russian. A week or so on, she has got her little mind around it and can now switch seamlessly between both languages. Now she can chat to the folks on the phone. My wife now tests her translation skills by saying "Go and tell Daddy this..." in Russian. And she comes and tells me in English.

A child's mind is the most amazing thing. Their capacity to absorb, store and process information is such that adults can only dream of.

I think its fair to say that my concerns from several years ago were groundless, and at the age of four, our daughter is truly bilingual. She is at the stage now where it isn't going to go away; it can only develop further. From here on in, my wife will speak to her only in Russian when they are alone in order that it continues to develop. She will get enough English from me, family, media and school.

Obviously my daughters first language now has turned from Ukrainian to English, she speaks both every day to mum and her grandparents etc, over here in Ukraine, she is getting to learn more Ukrainian, remember she left when just one week after her 8th birthday (5 years ago) and her Ukrainian started to get left behind just as soon as she learnt English, (mixed into the English school system) but although she is fine on both languages, (spoken) plus Russian, one thing that is definitely getting left behind is her written Ukrainian. It is now a long way behind her written English. She still reads books in both languages so her reading is pretty good.

Probably a bit early for your little one right now, but what are you planning to do to get her up to speed in writing in English and Russian,  we have found keeping it up is the hard part when 99% of the time in England she will write in English and has little or no reason to practice her written Ukrainian.

She is spending a couple of days with one of her old school friends in Ukraine at the moment, I think she will come away from that understanding that her Ukrainian skills in writing at least will be lagging way behind her old pals.
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Online AvHdB

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This is what we understand when her 6yr old arrives here soon...I hope.

I called the local school system in my area and was told they would like to see this little one within 2 days of his arrival to determine his English and then he will be placed in a 1st grade English only speaking classroom...We both think this is to fast and to much drama for this little guy but I was told that a child this young will pick up a new language very fast and is the best way.

We will see...

Manny thanks for updating this. My experience with my children in The Hague was close to what you describe. One thing that is apparent to me children (and adults) need to practice there language skills regularly.

Just MD, 2 days seems especially fast. But if the chap is reasonably extroverted and confident plus the school system is modern and realizes it is dealing with a 6 year old, there should be no problem. A good sign if the school system has a diverse mixture of expats children. If it is just immigrants from the Central America region than I would be more concerned.

Usually in the former Soviet Union even the youngest have a note book that records there scholastic achievements, it might behove you to get an informal translation that you can show to the new school.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Donhollio

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 JustMD, you have nothing to worry about with him being dumped into a English classroom, he will shock you by how much he'll retain in very short order. With my situation, I had the daughter coming home with daily new language skills, she was even learning slang from the school yard, and this left mama who learned her English in a classroom in a foreign country, somewhat confused to what it all meant. So in a way Nika and I were able to communicate one on one, leaving mama in the dark.
 I had fears of her starting school because she knew the alphabet, some numbers and maybe some basic phrases. She did have some problems during recess at first because she didn't understand when to for example, throw the ball, or to move to a new place in the game. Kids can then leave them feeling like an outcast. But no tears were ever shed, and she now has confidence to do everything a Canadian born kid would do. All of this by the way in just 11 months.

  I know one mother here with two girls, father is a Central American (speaks Spanish as a first language) mother was brought up in a small French speaking town here in Manitoba. She speaks fluent French/English. The kids are now both nearing ten in age and are trilingual, it leaves me being somewhat jealous being unilingual.
 While I'm not a supporter for French in Canada outside of Quebec, I would encourage any parent to have their child engage in other languages, either through special classes, or a via some cultural centre.  Now is the time while their brain is free and open to everything. The tongue is not yet trained, and between these two areas, a lot can be achieved.
 

 PS,

 Eduard, do you have your kids picking up any Spanish?

Offline Eduard

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Eduard, do you have your kids picking up any Spanish?
Hey Don, just a little Spanish first by watching Dora and Diego cartoons, then they learned a little in preschool. But it's really just a few words.

Offline Manny

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Eduard, do you have your kids picking up any Spanish?
Hey Don, just a little Spanish first by watching Dora and Diego cartoons, then they learned a little in preschool. But it's really just a few words.

Do they really need it where you live Ed?

For me, that would be like teaching the kids Urdu.
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Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Manny

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Probably a bit early for your little one right now, but what are you planning to do to get her up to speed in writing in English and Russian,  we have found keeping it up is the hard part when 99% of the time in England she will write in English and has little or no reason to practice her written Ukrainian.

My wife already got her this Cyrillic laptop type thing. An interactive thing that teaches you Cyrillic.

She has been learning letters a while. As with language initially, she has mixed them both together. She is right now just learning a larger general alphabet that consists of two alphabets. She starts infant school in September, so they will bring her English up. Wifey will work on her Russian.

Although we do have learning issues as "H" means "h" and "n", and "N" is like "И" but one means "n" and one "i". 

As with language, she will soon differentiate the two I think. Although any experiences that you encountered with your daughter most welcome. I know your daughter started out in Russian and later learned English.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Eduard

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Eduard, do you have your kids picking up any Spanish?
Hey Don, just a little Spanish first by watching Dora and Diego cartoons, then they learned a little in preschool. But it's really just a few words.

Do they really need it where you live Ed?

For me, that would be like teaching the kids Urdu.
Well, not really where we live at this point but with such huge influx of Spanish-speaking immigrants to this country it might be advantageous for them to speak Spanish in the future. Mandarin Chinese might be another language to learn...
I personally love learning different languages. If I ever have some free time on my hands, I'd love to become fluent in Italian. I think it's a beautiful language.

Offline Justmd

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This is what we understand when her 6yr old arrives here soon...I hope.

I called the local school system in my area and was told they would like to see this little one within 2 days of his arrival to determine his English and then he will be placed in a 1st grade English only speaking classroom...We both think this is to fast and to much drama for this little guy but I was told that a child this young will pick up a new language very fast and is the best way.

We will see...
yes, he'll be speaking pretty good English in a matter of about 3 months...without an accent I might add!

We both hope so! he is a sharp little one and think he will do well.

Offline Chris

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I know your daughter started out in Russian and later learned English.

She started out in Ukrainian, with some Russian and then English, when she arrived it was Ukrainian first, Russian second and English not even out of the starting blocks, despite us having her take additional English lessons in Ukraine, a complete waste of time really, because after a couple of months here she was already far further down the road of learning English than she had learnt over in Ukraine for 2-3 years.

Its practice like everything else, my daughter struggled with English spellings and grammar for a while, her spoken English came along very quickly, but in English where we throw lots of extra letters into words just for the hello of it, you of course don't really get that in Ukrainian.

The problem we have is that because we was so focused on her learning English to a very high level her written Ukrainian got left behind because she was simply not practising it enough, even 3 months back home in the summer holidays a few years where we have a Headmistress and two college Professors 'in house' could not get her up to speed, well they did, but of course then not using it regularly for the best part of a year again, she forgot a lot of it, even though we still encouraged her to write in Ukrainian at home, even down to making her keep a diary that was written ONLY in Ukrainian.

It might not be quite the same with your little un as she is starting off both from scratch, but I think you will find once she starts school, its all about learning English, and so much time will be taken up with that, that her Russian writing (not spoken) will start to fall behind, no matter how persevering your wife is, mine was the same, but its not easy as life takes over and once she is old enough to do things with friends and after school activities etc, making time for her Russian lessons is always going to be difficult.

I guess, like my daughter she will get by no problems with speech, but her written Russian abilities might just take a back seat unless you can start off now as you mean to go on and stick with it, rigorously.
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Online AvHdB

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This is what we understand when her 6yr old arrives here soon...I hope.

I called the local school system in my area and was told they would like to see this little one within 2 days of his arrival to determine his English and then he will be placed in a 1st grade English only speaking classroom...We both think this is to fast and to much drama for this little guy but I was told that a child this young will pick up a new language very fast and is the best way.

We will see...
yes, he'll be speaking pretty good English in a matter of about 3 months...without an accent I might add!

We both hope so! he is a sharp little one and think he will do well.

Another question to ask is will a child of a bride continue to learn and develop there Russian/Ukraine skills in there new home land?
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline patagonie

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My wife and her daughter come tomorrow.
The exercise is that everybody at home in the future is trilingual.
The first priority is for them to learn french.
 Daughter will be quickly better than mum in the future and all my communication with her should be exclusively in french.
With mum i need to switch from english to french, this is the most difficult i think.
And i will continue to  learn russian having now  a permanent support and two native speakers at home.
I am modest i will not be fluent in russian as i am in english before a long time. But i think that in two or three years my level could be interesting.
For daughter, english will come third but it is the easier part and i can help her.
Mum is going to struggle with french but i will send her to a tuition soon as she did before for two months.

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Patagonie,

When will mother and daughter speak practice Russian/Ukraine?

For what it is worth perhaps some one else should give them some guidance in English.

Av
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Offline patagonie

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Patagonie,

When will mother and daughter speak practice Russian/Ukraine?

For what it is worth perhaps some one else should give them some guidance in English.

Av
Mother and daughter will practice each other at home, they also have their relatives with whom they keep in touch through Skype.
So id don't worry about russian.
About english, do you think mine is so awful ? And daughter will have english as first foreign language at school.

Offline Justmd

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This is what we understand when her 6yr old arrives here soon...I hope.

I called the local school system in my area and was told they would like to see this little one within 2 days of his arrival to determine his English and then he will be placed in a 1st grade English only speaking classroom...We both think this is to fast and to much drama for this little guy but I was told that a child this young will pick up a new language very fast and is the best way.

We will see...
yes, he'll be speaking pretty good English in a matter of about 3 months...without an accent I might add!

We both hope so! he is a sharp little one and think he will do well.

Another question to ask is will a child of a bride continue to learn and develop there Russian/Ukraine skills in there new home land?

AV,
To answer back to your question if 2 days is such a short amount of time after entering my country...Yes, we both think/thought maybe a few weeks for this little one to get familiar with his no surrounding's was a good approach but seems the school system feels that the sooner he is involved the better. Our only thoughts on this now is he will have traveled many,many miles and might still have jet lag?  :)

Offline Phelan

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I'm not sure I understand the "vanity" fussing about learning Ukrainian/Russian if the intent is to live in the English speaking west. English is the international language of business as well. If you're in USA, for your kids anyway, the priority in learning language would be:
1. English
2. Spanish
3. Perhaps Mandarin, or another European language like German or French

Russian/Ukrainian would be way down the list. For Pat, since he is a native French speaker, it will benefit his family to be bilingual in French/English. But even in that case, the intimate emotional part of their relationship will have a primary language, which could end up being either French or even English I suppose. His wife will develop a superior fluency in one or the other.

If you have a goal that you would like to live or develop business in the FSU, and not in the west, then of course the situation is different.

People ask my wife about learning Russian, and she tells them flat out there's no value in it, and it's too difficult to bother with anyway. The only exception is if it's a hobby.

Offline Manny

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People ask my wife about learning Russian, and she tells them flat out there's no value in it, and it's too difficult to bother with anyway. The only exception is if it's a hobby.

I think that's a little different in Europe. Russia isn't far away and especially in London, many businesses need to hire Russian speaking staff as they are spreading their wings now across Europe. As Russia gets more solvent, visas become easier to get, and especially now Russians do more shopping in Europe, it is a language people might consider learning. Certainly more useful than Spanish here as we don't have the Spanish speaking immigrants you guys do. But we do have a lot of Poles and other Eastern Europeans, some of whom also speak Russian.

Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online AvHdB

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People ask my wife about learning Russian, and she tells them flat out there's no value in it, and it's too difficult to bother with anyway. The only exception is if it's a hobby.

I think that's a little different in Europe. Russia isn't far away and especially in London, many businesses need to hire Russian speaking staff as they are spreading their wings now across Europe. As Russia gets more solvent, visas become easier to get, and especially now Russians do more shopping in Europe, it is a language people might consider learning. Certainly more useful than Spanish here as we don't have the Spanish speaking immigrants you guys do. But we do have a lot of Poles and other Eastern Europeans, some of whom also speak Russian.

Phelan, I agree with Manny, because Russian education and the fact that Russia will some how gain traction in the world education speaking Russian could and most likely will be an asset on a CV in ten to twenty years.

It seems Russian education is like America slipping on languages & that learning the others parties language will be an advantage.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Manny

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Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Eduard

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