Omsk, Win, Lose or Draw? My experience

[Wild Orchid]

it is very old and popular show from St.Petersburg. I'm surprised they are still performing the show as I remeber it from 15 years ago

[Jared2151]

   I know I should have asked this question wayyyyyy up thread, but I was so engrossed in your TR that the next thing I knew, I was at the end.

   Anyway, my question.  When  Marina 'drown the chicken',(thaw) did she use tap water, which I understand to be a large no-no, or did she use bottled water ?  I know, it's probably a dumb question.  I'm just curious about how everyday things are done.

   Keep up the great reporting and thank you for sharing your experience.

[Chillidog]

it is very old and popular show from St.Petersburg. I'm surprised they are still performing the show as I remeber it from 15 years ago

Wild orchid,

Marina's Aunt Tatiana, told me basically the same as you write, but I thought she said from Moscow (but no big deal) it appears to be still quite popular because as Tatiana stated they had to move it to the "music theater" which from what she told me holds more people.

Maybe Omsk is enough off the beaten track in Russia that it has maintained its popularity and that now more of Rural Russia is enjoying it?

old or new, it was an enjoyable evening

[Chillidog]

   Anyway, my question.  When  Marina 'drown the chicken',(thaw) did she use tap water, which I understand to be a large no-no, or did she use bottled water ?  I know, it's probably a dumb question.  I'm just curious about how everyday things are done.

   Keep up the great reporting and thank you for sharing your experience.

now that you ask I never really gave it a second thought. IIRC she just filled the sink up with tap water (I assume cold) and also now thinking of it not sure if hot water was up and running yet. Maybe the thought process for her was that it was just to thaw and the chicken would be cooked at temperature later?

The nights were cold to were you would want heat (hot water radiant heat in her apartment) and her radiator was not yet running to heat the apartment when I was there.

From past trips in flats like hers the boiler system is turned off on the building in the summer and not turned back on until the fall, so only hot water you have is if you boil it on the stove.

If I am incorrect by those with more experience please let me know.

Not a question I had asked Marina. I do know the heat in the hotel (my room) was not running until the second to last day (again hot water radiant heat), but I did have hot water in the bathroom for my whole stay, which Marina had asked about on my first day in Omsk.

I know when I switched from cold to hot in the hotel the hot water was 'not clear'

[Chillidog]

Day 6 Sunday September 21st

Marina and I had tickets for the circus yesterday but with the chance to go to the Theater we changed our plans to going to the circus today (we had stopped by the circus ticket office yesterday and were told even though the date on our ticket was for the 20th we could use them on any day)

Well, this morning Marina calls and tells me that we must ‘cancel’ plans (this time my mind is not rushing to unreasoned conclusions---but I do need to work more with her on helping her use the word ‘change’ instead of ‘cancel’). Apparently when Tatiana was enthusiastic about inviting me for dinner she truly meant it (family likes me, this is a great comfort), she spoke with Marina last night and wants us over for dinner today. We are to arrive at Tatiana’s home at 4:30. Marina says she needs to do some cleaning in her home this morning and that she will be by my hotel at 1pm.

Marina arrives on time (OK, about 15 minutes late, but what woman is ever on-time?). We decide since we have plenty of time before going to her Aunts to take a walk along the Irtysh River. The weather feels warmer today but it is still only 10C, she has her hands inside her jacket pockets to keep them warm, so no matter how much I would like to hold her had while we walk, her comfort is more important. While walking Marina tells me (more like gestures with her head while pushing her elbow out from her body that she wants me to hold her arm) so we walk a bit with me holding her (similar to what  you would see when two women are walking together on the streets of Russia) which I am enjoying but think maybe putting my arm around her would be even nicer, so I do this and at the same time ask her if she minds me holding her like this? I get a smile and “Yes this is good”.

Since it had rained yesterday (all day) there are still many ‘puddles’ (she likes this word also) and other muddy obstacles to avoid, which at times means walking single file with Marina in front, but after avoiding these obstacles Marina is very quick to make sure my arm is around her and back holding onto her waist (boy, this is nice). Conversation is once again easy and enjoyable, there are some quiet times, but these are not ‘silent awkward’ moments more of just enjoying each other’s company and the walk along the river. Though it is warmer it still definitely has the feel of Autumn in the air, so I suggest we find a café for some coffee or tea, and we turn around and start heading back to go to a café.

Within a few minutes of turning around it begins to rain (there were clouds in the sky but none that suggested any rain) it is only sprinkling but you can also feel a distinct drop in the temperature. As we are walking we even see some small bits of ‘hail’ Marina states “quickly walk” then all of a sudden it really starts to rain, and the wind has picked up. Luckily we had reversed direction or this very cold rain would have been blowing right into our faces, as it is it is on our backs, with the backs of our pants becoming quite wet, and I have no hat (which if it was not raining so hard I am sure I would be getting an earful from Marina, certain that this will come later). This rain lasts for only about 5 minutes but this was enough to do its damage. Marina asks if I want to return to the hotel to change clothes but I tell her I am fine, the café is closer than Marina’s home so we go in there to get some tea, and dry off a bit. It is the café we visited on my first day in Omsk.

After the café we go to Marina’s apartment so she can change into some dry clothes and to kill the remaining hour before we go to her Aunt’s house. Ivan is home and this again gives me the opportunity to speak some more with him. He is watching TV (Star Wars in Russian) and also playing a computer game, which to my surprise I know this game (it is called ‘Diablo’) and actually have it on my computer. I tell Ivan this and we speak a little about this game, then I repeat this to Marina (she was in the bathroom changing clothes) and Marina says to me “you play children’s games?” to this I say, “of course, are not all men just big children?” Marina smiles and says “Да!'

We ride the bus down Маркса towards City Center, then walk a few blocks to Tatiana’s house, where Marina punches in Tatiana’s apartment number and we are buzzed thru the steel security door. We are greeted at the door to the apartment by Tatiana’s husband Andrei (Andrei is a pilot) then just inside Tatiana and Yana greet us, after taking off my coat and removing my shoes I am introduced to “Grandmother” (Tatiana’s mother). Grandmother gives me a warm welcome, I say hello and give her a kiss on the cheek. From there Andrei (who is also all smiles) brings me into an adjacent room where sitting on the divan is “Great-Grandmother” I walk over to her, say hello and bend down to also give her a kiss on the cheek. Great-Grandmother is also all smiles and refuses to let go of my arm (feels good to be so quickly welcomed into their home) Tatiana says let’s go into the living room to sit, and I help Great-Grandmother up, Tatiana tells me that Great-Grandmother is 90 years old, she moves just fine for her age, and her mind is alert. We proceed to the living room, where a table is a set up with a bunch of food on it already. Great-Grandmother and Grandmother sit on the divan in this room and the table is positioned so they can stay on the divan to eat, the rest of us all sit on backless stools.

The rest of the evening is conducted in this room. Andrei brings out some Cognac and small shot glasses, not sure how to proceed, how Marina will feel about drinking, when Andrei pours shots for everyone including Great-Grandmother and Grandmother, and see Marina take a glass (but does say only a very small shot) I feel more comfortable in drinking in front of her (I will add I am not much of a drinker, would have preferred Vodka or a beer, but will make sure to not get drunk)

This is a first for me (being invited to meet the family and have a Russian dinner with them) I imagine this dinner is pretty much a traditional Russian dinner, neither Marina or Tatiana is happy unless I am shoveling the food into my body. Andrei is quite happy when he can pour me another shot of Cognac (because then he gets to have another himself-I only have 4 shots all night). Marina asks if the Cognac is Russian, Andrei says “no, Kazakhstan” Conversation is on many varied topics, a lot of questions regarding America, such as do we have “Russian Vodka in America?” Andrei is interested in the price of gasoline, very interested in my truck, size of engine, how many miles to the gallon it gets, and the general differences I find between life in America and what I have seen in this trip to Omsk and also my other trips to Russian (they are all aware of a previous relationship I had with a Russian woman- to which I believe honesty is always the best policy)

Andrei being a pilot was interested in my flights and we tried to figure out if there WAS a ‘direct’ flight from Chicago to Omsk how long (time) this would take, we arrive at a figure of 14 ½ hours. During dinner Andrei tells his daughter Yana that she cannot eat (joking), because she needs to be translating. During the evening I ask “if they observe ‘Daylight Savings’?” (for personal knowledge when I adjust my clock so I know the time difference for future telephone calls). I am told “yes, we also adjust our clocks” and Tatiana is very interested in this because as she says on their TV they (Russian people) are told “they” (Russia) are the only country that changes their clocks.

Andrei loves to fish, hunt and garden, he says it is a shame that I have to leave in just a few days because he would love to take me out to their Dacha to show me his garden of, flowers, fruits & vegetables. To also go fishing and hunting and to also enjoy their ’banya’ at the dacha. With this he goes into a different room and comes back with some of his collection of rifles (one of them is from 1941) and a couple of pistols.

Politics is also discussed and I am surprised to learn that all of them do not think very highly of  ’Putin’. They said in the beginning they liked him (when he was first elected) he spoke of all the problems that Russia and the Russian people faced, and gave solutions to fix these problems, but once he gained power, he only cared for putting money in his pockets, and forgot about the Russian people. To that I said “it does not sound any different then our politicians” Conversation is also about Movies mainly about “Hollywood Movies” the ones they have seen which they very much enjoyed and to see if I felt the same (I will be honest I think they have seen many more movies then I have) Music also is discussed and I am ask by Andrei if I know of a music group called the “Eagles” and then if I like them. He takes me into the room where I first met Great-Grandmother and puts on a Tape-to-Tape player an ’Eagles’ concert from 1976. He turns the volume up so high I believe the plaster is going to start popping off the walls. Tatiana runs in and tells him to turn it down.

There has become a running joke with us now, which started the first time I met Tatiana and Yana and continues tonight: “that I came to Russian to learn English”. There has been on a few occasions where Tatiana or Yana would say a word in English (the translated version of a Russian word) and this English word I had never ever heard of before in my life (but my English is not very good either) and so they would have me look it up in my dictionary and sure enough in the ‘Russian to English” section there is this English word printed in black and white. So this happens again tonight (I learn a new English word) but Marina wants to show everyone how much Russian I know and coaxes me to speak some Russian for everyone (mainly for Great-Grandmother and Grandmother) I think I do pretty well.

Yana translates what Great-Grandmother and Grandmothers responses are, basically; “Great Russian Man”

Towards the end of the evening Great-Grandmother is sitting now a divan, which is behind me, so Marina moves and sits beside her to talk with her Great-Grandmother (Grandmother is not Marina’s Grandmother, hers’ has passed away, this Grandmother I believe is Marina’s Grandmother’s sister). So Yana, Andrei, Tatiana and I are talking, they tell me that Marina is very happy and that we look like a very good couple. I confess to them my feelings have grown for Marina, that I have high hopes for a future together with Marina. It feels right to me, and I tell them of my hopes for a second meeting, that I would like to come back at New Years and stay at least thru Orthodox Christmas, but that I am still very uncertain of Marina’s feelings and thoughts on a second meeting. Yana tells me that they are very confident that Marina feels the same as me. I tell them it would be awfully nice to hear this come from Marina.

I believe Marina hears her name (put cannot really hear the conversation) and asks, “what are we discussing” to this Yana replies it is a “secret”. Marina asks again but gets the same response from Yana and now Tatiana and Andrei also. (I still think to myself even though Marina’s family tells me she likes me, I would feel much better hearing it from Marina, but wonder if I ever will? and can I commit to a second meeting without stronger feelings being shown by Marina towards me?)

The evening comes to a close it is after 11pm, and so we call for a Taxi to take us back home. I say my goodnights to everyone and thank Tatiana and Andrei for inviting me into there home and for such an enjoyable day. I give kisses on the cheeks again to Great-Grandmother and Grandmother, and Yana again translates their responses of “great Russian man” 

[Chillidog]

Pictures.

another picture from the perfomance showing the various sizes of balls that were sent out into the audience

[Wild Orchid]

Wild orchid,

Marina's Aunt Tatiana, told me basically the same as you write, but I thought she said from Moscow (but no big deal) it appears to be still quite popular because as Tatiana stated they had to move it to the "music theater" which from what she told me holds more people.

Maybe Omsk is enough off the beaten track in Russia that it has maintained its popularity and that now more of Rural Russia is enjoying it?

old or new, it was an enjoyable evening

To be honest with you I've never seen it alive, I've seen many-many times on TV. I'm sure the show and the group originally from Peter but they might moved to Moscow later on.  When you mentioned big balloons I knew straight away who you were talking about 

[Chillidog]

To be honest with you I've never seen it alive, I've seen many-many times on TV. I'm sure the show and the group originally from Peter but they might moved to Moscow later on.  When you mentioned big balloons I knew straight away who you were talking about 

WO,

even though it was only a week ago, my memory could be cloudy and she said St. P and I am thinking Moscow. Your probably correct. I really liked when they came out into the audience during intermission, I beleive some in the audience missed a portion of this becuase there were a few getting up to walk around, go to the bathroom and such.

I do not know if they do this in every performance (having only seen it myself this one time) but for me it really made the evening more enjoyable

[Wild Orchid]

I do not know if they do this in every performance (having only seen it myself this one time) but for me it really made the evening more enjoyable

I think they do... At least I've seen it before..

[Chillidog]

Day 7 Monday September 22nd

Again cold today around 8C, Marina asks me everyday what the weather is like ‘Today’ in Chicago, I tell her without being there I really do not know but I suspect around 20C (she likes this answer). She says she does not like the cold, but I have to be honest with her and tell her Chicago does get ‘cold’ and we do get snow in the winter (she does not like this answer).

We have changed plans the last two days and put off going to the circus, so I went to sleep last night thinking that today we will finally go to the circus.

Well guess what? When Marina arrives at the hotel she tells me that there is ‘no’ circus today, that the shows are only on the weekends now, but our tickets are still good. (What, what do you mean still good?) She says they can be used for other weekends, that they are still good. Well, I am not going to be here another weekend (they are very good seats 6 row center) so I gave the tickets to Marina and hope her and Ivan make use of them.

She calls this a “day of problems” she apologizes often and sincerely about the circus tickets, she says the ticket woman only told her today. The other problem (bigger) her Aunt Tatiana is running a very high fever, towards the end of the evening last night she was noticeably shaking with goose bumps all over and she grabbed a comforter (from her bed?) and was bundled up in this trying to get warm. They have taken her to the hospital to be checked out.

Since the circus is not going to happen, I then suggest we go bowling, which Marina happily agrees to. Since Marina has been very reserved in showing her feelings, I am wondering if I just need to flat out ask a direct question regarding this, or to wait on her to see if she eventually tells me how she feels. Whatever I do time is drawing to a close (after today I am only here for 2 more days).  In my gut I do believe she cares and likes me as a person, but this is far different than wanting to see a foreign man for a second meeting, and believing herself that there is good possibilities for a future together.

I am not looking for her to make a commitment or to say she loves me, it is way to early in our relationship for that, just wanting to know if she wants and believes a second meeting is a good idea. That our relationship can progress to this point, that she feels their is a possiblity for a future. Being a person who is open, I say what the heck and figure take the direct approach.

So before bowling we take a walk along the Irtysh River again (the bowling alley is connected to the hotel but not part of the hotel, so it is just across the street from the river). I tell Marina how I feel about her, which really is not the first time. That my hopes today are just as strong, even stronger on the possibilities of a future with her than they were before we met (she says she knows and understands) and I ask her “how she feels?” I tell her I definitely want to come to Omsk and to be with her again, that I feel strongly that she is the woman I have been searching for, but that it is very early in our relationship and we need to learn much more about each other before we can make a commitment, so I ask her how she feels about a “second meeting?” “what are “her feelings towards me?” to all of my questions I get basically the same answer:

“I do not know”

You to talk about feeling like you just ran into a brick wall! About feeling emotionally deflated!!

We talk a little further on the subject, trying to make sure I understand her correctly, and  “Yes, I do” she really does not want to talk ‘future‘; she says she has difficulties with job (she quit and when I return will have to find a new job) and difficulties with Ivan. At this time she does not want to discuss a second meeting, or feelings (she does not come right out and say this). After our talk she turns to me and says “see, a day of problems”

I am feeling about as low as I can right now, but I continue to try to see the “silver lining” and right now, it is not easy! Yet I think it would be a bigger mistake to just pack it in and walk her home right now. So I continue with what feeble plans I have for this day now.

It is in the afternoon about 3:30 so I am hoping we will not have any problems bowling, like the other night when we wanted to bowl (if we get there and the 6 lanes are all are being used and we cannot bowl I think I will take it as an additional sign and just pack it all in) there are lanes open (good, bad?) and Marina asks how many games do we want to bowl “1 or 2” I say 2. I used to bowl often when I was younger but have not done it in many years, and Marina says this is the first time she went bowling, and her first game is not bad at all she scores an 85. Like most she has nicely manicured fingernails and about halfway thru this first game she hurts one of her fingernails, and you can see at times there is some pain when she bowls. Before we start the second game, I ask her if she is OK and still wants to continue bowling? She says Yes.

We bowl the second game and her score is lower then the first game 64, she makes a comment about her score of “what is this? 64 this bad score, we will try another game” I ask again about her nails/fingers if they are hurting her and if she really wants to bowl a 3rd game, and she says “yes”. So we bowl a third game Marina score improves over her second game but still not as good as her first she scores a 79. She then says 3 games are enough, and a comment that she does not think this game is for her, indicating to her hands and nails (her hand is aching) plus I think her arm is also a little sore.

It is around 5:30 so I know Marina must be hungry (but from our conversation from earlier today I have lost all of my appetite). The Fancy restaurant is just a stones throw from the bowling alley, and connected to it is a less upscale restaurant, more café’ like (I think a sister restaurant) and I tell her why don’t we go to this restaurant for some tea and dinner.  Marina is asking me what she should order for me to eat (I earlier had asked if they had any menus in English, and was told - no). I tell Marina I am not hungry, not to order anything for me, but I could really use a beer! She says I must eat and takes it upon her self to order me a ‘seafood salad’ and for a main course what looks something like dumplings shaped like flowers with meat inside, she says they are small and only 4. I tell the waitress I would like a пиво - ьольшой (what I really want is some Vodka but afraid I will drink the whole bottle). Marina orders the same for herself.

At the restaurant and during bowling there is not much small talk, and I am really not in the mood since our talk earlier and in defense of Marina, I do not offer much feedback. We eat a quiet meal and pretty much the only conversation is when Marina inquires into whether I am enjoying the food. Before we leave I order a second beer.

The indoor shopping mall is nearby so I tell Marina I would like to go there to see if I can find any souvenirs for my daughters. Even doing this my heart really is not into it so after a short walk around the mall we leave and I steer our walk towards Marina’s apartment, we get there around 8 pm and Marina invites me up, but I decline and tell her I would rather just go back to the hotel. I think she is a little perplexed by my response, not sure how she expects me to act, since I had asked her earlier if she wanted a second meeting with me and she said she did not know, not sure if I am still suppose to be all bubbly and friendly after that? So I say goodnight to Marina, and this time I only kiss her on the cheek.

I’m back at the hotel, and now really wondering what the heck is going on? I only have 2 more days in Omsk and right now I think I would just prefer to stay in my room the whole time waiting for my 6:50am flight on Thursday the 25th.

What is bugging me the most is I really do not think Marina understands why my mood changed. When she asked I said “I am very sad because I leave in 2 days and I now believe because of our earlier conversation I will never see you again” I do not think this has even registered with her. Before our meeting she told me how important this meeting was for her, she quit her job so we could spend the full 9 days together, but now I do not know if she understands the reason I came to Omsk.

There is only one explanation I can come up with in my mind. It is obvious that I did not set her world on fire, like she did mine. That what I feel for her is worlds apart from what she feels for me.

I think I will just stay in bed all day tomorrow.

[Donhollio]

I had a similar experience in 2003 , I went to see only one girl,things didn't go as I hoped and I too found myself sitting in my hotel room waiting for my flight out.  The girl wouldn't speak to me on the phone, a loud click was my goodbye from her.  I learned never to do a visit one girl trip again. 

[Wild Orchid]

at she feels for me.

I think I will just stay in bed all day tomorrow.

I think you didn't 

[cufflinks]

Chilli - I am really empathizing with you.  This trip report is torture - I can't understand a woman professing she is looking for her soul mate and exchanging photos, calls and corresponding with a man who makes the emotional and financial investment to travel 10,000 miles not to be made to feel like he is the most important man in the world to her. 

I would call this unacceptable in any culture. 

There is an old saying that Men never leave Women who make them feel good about themselves!

Clearly you are not feeling to good about yourself.

This just further illustrates that Eduards model - pre-screen several - visit several long enough to see their family dynamics and behaviour seems to be the best here.

I am actually seeing red here... 

No wonder old world arranged marriages have an 80% success rate and soulmate marriages less than 50%

[shakespear]

Chillidog time to punt on this one.  She's a nice girl but obviously she isn't the right girl for you.

IMHO you are caught in the classic "polite host" situation.

Your lady is a quality girl with a good upbringing and values.  The LAST thing she would want to do is insult a person that is her guest in her home city and travelled a long way to meet her.

But it is completely clear to me that she has no real romantic feelings for you.  Her actions telegraph this message in thousands of ways.

But as long as you are in her city, she will continue to be polite and attentive to you; treating you with respect and courtesy while you are a guest in her city.  This is the normal behavior for a well-breed Russian woman.  Many western men mistake her attention toward you as a sign of continued romantic interest.  It is a HUGE mistake to do so.  She is just being polite.  My guess is she ruled you out as a romantic interest after the 2nd or 3rd meeting. 

North American men have been conditioned by our women over the last 20-30 years to openly express our feelings and to expect direct replies.  Not the case in Russia.  

When she is being purposefully obtuse concerning your direct questions about a relationship; remember again a well mannered Russian lady would not want to say anything directly to you that might cause you insult or emotional hurt.  So because she has no romantic feelings toward you, she will answer questions on this topic in an abstract or evasive manner, hoping that you will be clever enough to figure out how she feels without her having to actually verbally hurt your feelings with a direct and truthful reply to your questions.

My own "5 Date Sex Rule" is on point here.  After five days together you were still in a position of begging to get a peck kiss from her.  If she would have had any real romantic interest in you you would have probably been doing the "horizontal bop" with her by that time.  Again, by rebuffing your intimate advances, she is hoping you will figure out that she is not romantically interested in you without having to verbalize her feelings and cause you emotional pain.

This trip report carried many valuable lessons for neophytes:

1)  don't mistake polite behavior by a woman as romantic interest

2)  understand that a woman you are visiting in Russia will continue to accept your invitations to spend time with her even if she has already determined she has no real romantic interest in you

3)  if your "gut" tells you things are not progressing the way they should, your "gut" is probably right.  Don't waste any more time on her.  Get out to an agency or contact someone new in the same city and start over again.  In most cases you'll have more a more rewarding trip experience with somebody new than by continuing to torture your original girl with with unwanted advances.     

[mirror]

shakespear
  Don't waste any more time on her. 

Why not? It is Chillidog's desire to waste his time or not. It is obvious that he is in love so I will not wonder if he will go back to her. Looks like everything was his own dream from first place.
He described her not wish to hold his hands but he was writing that his love was growing every day despite of that.

[fireeater]

shakespear
  Don't waste any more time on her. 

Why not? It is Chillidog's desire to waste his time or not. It is obvious that he is in love so I will not wonder if he will go back to her. Looks like everything was his own dream from first place.
He described her not wish to hold his hands but he was writing that his love was growing every day despite of that.

I may be wrong, but I think the problem is with the son, and with her thoughts of leaving her realtives. And finding a new job would be on her mind, as it approached the time he is leaving. Since she cared enough the quit to be with him. She has cared enough to "order" him around, and look after him as well  while he is here. And her realtives seen to be saying she is interested a lot.   

It could be she is torn between two areas, him and her family. A difficult choice to make for anyone. Her son may be the focus more then the others. But that is just my guess, along with others here. 

[mobyone]

CD, I want to thank you for your trip reports.

I note you haven't posted anymore and hope you will be home safe, soon and not too sad.

I rarely agree with Brad/ Shakey, but much of what he says is true about how a good FSU lady will behave - to be respectful to you, for your time and effort to visit.

My wife has a friend who had a visit from a WM and she knew very quickly that there was no spark - but she was DETERMINED to show him the sights and entertain him- she introduced him to her friends and even her nearly grown-up son. She WANTED him to enjoy his stay.

I don't agree with the posters who tell you "you should have had a plan B" - "get off to an Agency" .. Marina will know you came to see her - and only her ..you'd be lucky to build up a rapport with a lady who will KNOW you came to see someone else - but it didn't work out.. YES it happens, but would there be legs in such a relationship.

Use the things you learnt about yourself wisely - the things that you feel made you "interesting" and the things that you feel might be detrimental.

IF things didn't work out - it's FAR better to know now...Believe me you aren't the only guy who's been sat in a room wondering WHAT am I doing here?

CD... it's not the greatest feeling to be alone - facing a long time "stewing" over what you did "wrong" - IF it didn't work out ....  I hope you got the chance to "clear the air"

I've met women with whom we clicked instantly, only to find we weren't suited and I've had a situation - a bit like yours - where communication was lousy and I "knew" there was no spark - only to find the lady wanted to visit me in my home  to see how I lived.... and it was me that didn't want her...

Gut feelings *can* be misconceptions - and no two people are the same..  treat all the advice you read with a  "pinch of salt" and decide what's best for you....  Don't give up...

[bobjf]

guys until chilli says otherwise,you might all be barking up the wrong tree.

how this deal progress's is different for every couple,no 2 of us are the same,there is no right or wrong way.
very possible a few have hung themselves by seeing but not seeing.

just because some here perceive there are rules to this deal & how they think an rw should react ,doesn't make it so.
not all couples come to a working relationship in a week or 2 even after being in contact for sometime, there is no reason to expect an rw to react as some here think is the norm if there interested in going forward, all are different.
this maybe more so with an older woman with a family to consider.

we ask that our rw's give up everything for us,family,friends,etc to be with us,maybe on the otherside of the world & guys it is a huge ask for them, a fact recently driven home for me with the death of my mil & distraught wife who couldn't get home in time to be with her mum.

chilli ,i for 1 wish you luck in your pursuit, don't jump to conclusions that may cost you your dream.
it is worth the effort to find out 1 way or the other if your truly interested in this lady

[sparky114]

Lets wait to see what CD puts up next we are all jumping to conclusions to soon IMHO

And if it turns out great then we will have got all warm around the collar for nothing, and if it does not turn out OK then we need to be here for our FELLOW traveller to give him some support

guys until chilli says otherwise,you might all be barking up the wrong tree.

how this deal progress's is different for every couple,no 2 of us are the same,there is no right or wrong way.
very possible a few have hung themselves by seeing but not seeing.

just because some here perceive there are rules to this deal & how they think an rw should react ,doesn't make it so.
not all couples come to a working relationship in a week or 2 even after being in contact for sometime, there is no reason to expect an rw to react as some here think is the norm if there interested in going forward, all are different.
this maybe more so with an older woman with a family to consider.

we ask that our rw's give up everything for us,family,friends,etc to be with us,maybe on the otherside of the world & guys it is a huge ask for them, a fact recently driven home for me with the death of my mil & distraught wife who couldn't get home in time to be with her mum.

chilli ,i for 1 wish you luck in your pursuit, don't jump to conclusions that may cost you your dream.
it is worth the effort to find out 1 way or the other if your truly interested in this lady

Well done Bob



Regards
Mark

[Jared2151]

       What Sparky said

[shakespear]

I rarely agree with Brad/ Shakey,

Surprising since I'm almost ALWAYS right.

IF things didn't work out - it's FAR better to know now...Believe me you aren't the only guy who's been sat in a room wondering WHAT am I doing here?  

Absolutely right.  The biggest mistake made by many is to misread or ignore signs, signals or gut feelings against the rationalization of all the time, money and emotions that have been committed so far in the pursuit.  They continue on, ignoring clear and obvious warning signs with rationalizations of "maybe she needs more time" or "things will improve once she gets to my home country" (laughable).

A guy needs who wants to be successful in this pursuit needs to know when to "cut his loses" and move on.  When you go to Russia, you only have limited time to determine if there is a change that a relationship will work out.  That limited time is best not spend pursuing a lost cause.

Don't give up on the pursuit.  Just change course. 

[Boris]

This is why I would never post anything but a generic trip post. Shake is probably right but like Bobjf I think everyone should let Chili post his entire TR before everyone comments. Making a trip is a very emotional thing for most of us. What really bothers me is guys making judgments without ever making the trip. I really wonder why some guys are on this board as they will never take a step beyond writing women and wasting everyone's time. Those who know me know that I made less than ten posts before I made my trip. I just read the forums and learned everything that I could. But I understand that some guys just can't help themselves as they are experts in everything. Sorry, Chili, for interrupting your thread. I know the mixed feelings you must have had. I had the same thing happen during my first week in Ukraine, before I met Sveta. I wish you the best.

Barry

[Chillidog]

First let me apologize for not finishing my "Trip Report" yet.

It was not my intent to delay writing my last 2 days events in Omsk.

I serious 'family health problem' with my father has caused me to spend the last two days at the hospital. He is not in great health, but I will say that everything now is looking much better. He will be in the hospital probably for another week or two, but is out of the woods and will be home shortly

again please forgive me for the delay.

TO EVERYONE:

thank you all for your comments and input, all are appreciated, and these comments, opinions and help is why I have tried to give a detailed writing of what was happening and how I was feeling.

this would be the only way for those in this adventure together could give me a reasoned and valuale input as you all have

again thank you everyone!!!!!

now for "Day 8"

[Chillidog]

Day 8 Tuesday September 23rd

I wake up still in a very lousy (depressed) mood, and still just feel like staying in bed all day. Even a nights sleep has not helped much. There are so many things going thru my mind, but I keep coming back to the same possibilities: 1) just because I think she is the ‘one’ that does not mean that she has to feel this same way or 2) why does romance/feelings/affection have to meet “my time schedule” everyone is individuals we can not make a person care for us, and we have no control over our own hearts. Or 3) what says that if I like her she has to like me? I knew full well before traveling this was a very real possibility

It is very difficult but I drag myself out of bed and decide I need to go for a walk and try to clear my head.

I really do not know what more I can do. I think of everything and I feel good that I have done all that I can to show Marina the ‘True Robert’ and have done the best I can to show her who I am, so she can become more comfortable with me, and in this I have been (or tried) to be a gentleman in all situations (in other words I have acted as myself, acted no differently in Russia, as I act in America).

I do wonder even if she says she understands what I am asking, that there might be a different interpretation of this in her mind, a different impression being felt?.  Maybe she feels when I ask about a ’second meeting’ she is thinking and feeling that I am asking for a ’lifetime commitment”.

I could not even promise her this (lifetime commitment) at this early stage, at where we are now in knowing each other. I continue walking and thinking. Taking some photos, many of these places that would be of no interest to the casual observer, but I take these pictures for my memories, I have no idea if I will ever return to Omsk again, but want to remember every little detail as much as possible of my time in Omsk.

I arrive back at my hotel, not feeling great but knowing that I cannot stay in the hotel just waiting for my flight home. I came to Osmk for all of the correct reasons, and I met a truly good and wonderful women, if it is that we can only be friends than that is what it will be, but I will spend my last days in Omsk with Marina! To not do otherwise would destroy for me and I believe for her what has been a very enjoyable time together. I do not want to stop communicating with her, and hope even if it is “only as friends” we will continue to communicate in letters and on phone for a very long time.

I arrive at Marina’s apartment still wondering what this day will bring. I cannot say my mood is happy, maybe just determined to not give up. Marina has the teapot going and we have some tea and of course Marina is telling me to eat, she always has cookies on the table (I do not know how Marina stays so thin, with all the sweets (cookies, chocolate) she eats. I tell Marina one of the things I would like to do is take my camera to a photo shop today so they can make copies of all the photos (so before I leave she will have all of our photos, 200+ taken and we can pick up a photo album also, so she has something to put them in).

Marina’s Aunt (Tatiana) is still ill and running a fever, but she is at her home instead of the hospital, I am told by them that it is better for her to be in her house to recover because the hospital is too cold (temperature). Her fever has dropped but is still above normal at 38.6C. So Marina is of course wanting to go to her Aunts to be with her. Marina says before we go to Tatiana’s she would like to go a nice café that is near Tatiana’s house in city center, if this is agreeable with me. Both Tatiana and Yana have told me that this café has many excellent teas made with various fruits, nuts depending on what you order all as they say are ’very healthy for the person’ I am told they have very good salads of fish, meat and that they also have wonderful cheesecakes, it is called ’Holland’s Cup’ (Marina has never been there).

It is located on the 3rd floor of a building that houses nothing but very ritzy upscale shops of clothes, jewelry, and crystal and many other shops of different items. I was told these shops just cater to the city ’officials’ and dignitaries; normal people do not shop here.  ’Holland Cup’ though housed in the same building with these shops is not ’over priced’ it does have a nice atmosphere and décor. They do have English menus (the first place we have asked for one) so this time I order for myself.

After “Holland’s Cup” we walk the short distance to visit Tatiana, stopping off at one shop to pick up a ’blank CD’ so Yana can put on disk all of my pictures for Marina, for Marina’s computer. Tatiana is lying in the smaller divan (it pulls out into a bed) in the same room where we ate dinner. The rest of the day is spent here in Tatiana’s home, talking with Tatiana, Yana (acting as translator when needed) Marina, Great Grandmother, Grandmother and a friend of Tatiana’s is also present (Andrei is not home today).

After a few hours, Marina tells me “I must eat” to which Yana and even Tatiana still being sick “gang up on me” and so I know I will not win this conversation and do not even try. Marina, Yana and myself go to the kitchen to eat. Yana and Marina bring food out to the others to be eaten in the same room with Tatiana. While it is only the three of us in the kitchen, the three of us are talking and Yana, comments that they ‘all’ wish I did not have to leave and hope I will return very soon. Well, this comment gets the ball rolling, in regards to Marina’s/Robert’s relationship. Marina appears very comfortable in talking with Yana present, and when the discussion turns to this subject is talking mostly in Russian and using Yana to translate what she wants to say and ask.

(I am wondering know if this might have been planned, with only the 3 of us in the room together to talk about more private relationship issues)

Marina starts asking me some very serious and deep questions, some of these subjects had all ready been written about in letters, but Marina asks about them anyways (as Yana says, Marina understood but not fully in the letters). Many of the questions are in regards to my previous relationship with a FSU woman, such as “was I still in communication with her?” (No, absolutely not, all communication ended almost 2 years ago) “Why and for what reason did this relationship end?” another important question for Marina was “why do I search in Russia of a wife?“ I of course was open and honest with all of my answers. There is nothing to hide and gave ’full disclosure” on everything.

When Tatiana and Yana first met me (this is now the 3rd full day we all have been together) they told Marina (which from Yana I learned tonight) that they thought I was a very open and honest person, and Marina agreed fully with them. I had told Marina about this past ended relationship probably within the first month we started writing letters, nothing she learned today was new, maybe as she said she did not full understand? Maybe she needed to hear the explanation while looking into my eyes? Maybe she did fully understand and wanted to see if what I told her today would be the same as what I had written many months ago, to test the truth? I do not know, maybe a combination of all of them?

After answering Marina’s questions, I have “1” question to ask her, so with Yana acting as translator, I again asked the question that was most on my mind “does Marina wish/desire to meet me again?” (I wanted no misunderstanding, or miscommunications).

Marina, said 9 days is a very short time to learn and to know a person, (I told her I agree) that she cannot commit to a ’future’ with me, she said that I was great man, and everything in person I was in letters, everything she hoped I would be, but she did not feel ’love’ that it takes time for love to grow, that she could not promise me anything, but that she also has very high hopes and dreams for a future together with me. Again I felt a bond with Marina and before we rejoined Tatiana I put both hands on the sides of Marina’s waist and looked into her eyes and gave her a kiss (in front of Yana).

The rest of the evening was spent talking with the ’family’ Yana put the pictures on CD for Marina, she  also on her computer showed me (and everyone)  a video presentation she had put together from her trip to Venice (my mother’s Italian) By the end of the evening Tatiana’s temperature was still high but had improved to 37.6. It was after 11pm before Marina and I left to go home so again we called for a Taxi, but prior to leaving Tatiana and Yana, gave me gifts to bring home for both of my daughters, a gift for my parents and also a gift for me.

This day has lifted my spirits and gave me some needed confirmation that I was not the only one feeling a connection. I am still a bit guarded and know fully that nothing in life is guaranteed. I am still not sold completely that Marina desires a second meeting as much as I. But this still maybe her ’reserved nature’ not wanting to get her hopes ’too high’, but I think a ‘big’ step forward was taken today.

Marina is truly a wonderful and special woman, the last thing I want is to see her hurt, so I know the consequences in making empty promises, and desperately try to keep from making this error.

   

[Chillidog]

Pictures of the inside of "Holland's Cup"