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Author Topic: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating  (Read 90947 times)

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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2009, 10:23:59 AM »
Wow, not many folks have made it thru that book. It's not the easiest read in the world but has some valuable info.  tiphat

Offline Manny

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2009, 11:45:30 AM »
Wow, not many folks have made it thru that book. It's not the easiest read in the world but has some valuable info.  tiphat

I am reading it at the moment actually, I like to read others' books on the subject. It is hard going at the start, I am hoping it will lighten up shortly.  :drunk:
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

"He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. He reckons that's a great idea. The Chinese built a wall centuries ago - there ain't many Mexicans over there." ~ Kevin Bloody Wilson

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2009, 09:20:09 PM »
Quote
It is hard going at the start, I am hoping it will lighten up shortly


.....sorry..... :)


Offline zhukov

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2009, 03:58:28 PM »
Hi there,

Informative post. What about making the first move sexually do you think there are big differences between western ladies and those in the FSU in terms of what they expect from men?

zhukov

Offline Voyager

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2009, 04:02:08 PM »
Hi there,

Informative post. What about making the first move sexually do you think there are big differences between western ladies and those in the FSU in terms of what they expect from men?

zhukov

Welcome to the forum Zhukov!

It's hard to group all women from a country together, there are many different attitudes among them.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2009, 04:14:53 PM »
We have a couple of threads which argue the pros and cons in "The Adventure Continues" section.

I can only go on what my own own experience and what I've heard from other married men. In general they sort of expect you to take the lead until you have lived together for awhile and then they become very comfortable with initiation.

There are so many variables and for how long that is, is up to the couples to decide for themselves.

Given the current concern in the FSU that Western men are coming for a quick sex tour and not serious about marriage, whatever you decide as the timetable one should let the big head guide things and not the little head until you know the individual situation a little better.

To keep this topic clear of the well discussed threads dealing with the issue we'll guide further posts to the section where there are two threads already about that question: http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?board=1.0

Offline ECR844

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2009, 04:43:26 PM »
Hi there,

Informative post. What about making the first move sexually do you think there are big differences between western ladies and those in the FSU in terms of what they expect from men?

zhukov

Welcome 'Field Marshal' if your forum nom de guerre is a reference to Georgy Zhukov that is of course. :) If not, welcome anyway!

Offline zagoc

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2009, 07:22:41 AM »
How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating:

I've written often that the Western idea of courtship and Dating is very different from what most Russian ladies and their familes practice in pursuit of marriage.  In fact, in many cases "dating" as understood in the West is really non-existent in the East.

To my mind, men would fare much better if they dropped many "dating" preconceptions and studied/practiced more about courtship and adapted that to the shorter time frames necessary for an international marriage.  That term by the way, is much more accurate that "mail order bride" because if you marry, the challenges and joys which await you will be from the result of an "international marriage."

So how do Russian women see this process:

- Power.  A Russian woman knows that she is a woman and is very proud of that.  It is her strength.  She is not weak in being a woman.  It is her power. 

- This gives her the right to have certain expectations in how a man approaches and views her.  It will guide how he must treat her and her parents.

- She will allure, but not pursue.  She doesn't need to actively pursue a man.  She needs to be herself and the man with the plan of action to win her heart.....will win her heart.

- Men can't be shy or they will lose.  She is looking for boldness and confidence.  Don't confuse this with bravado or brash overconfidence.  Think of cool and calm confidence and determination.

- Most (the kind you want to marry) don’t initiate phone calls nor ask a man out for a "date."  If you can't muster up enough nerve to do this she will wonder what else in life you will be afraid to face.

- She will spend a large amount of time and resources looking her absolute best.  She expects you to take notice and take action.  Those who hesitate will go thru life without a princess.

- Speaking of "princess", her Papa treats her like one and has taught her that she must select only a man who will do the same.  Don't mistake this with spending money or buying her things.  She is not for sale.  She wants to be treated with honour and respect on the ordinary days, not just when courting or on holidays.  Can you make her FEEL (has nothing to do with $) like she is on holiday on ordinary days?

-  You must have the attitude that she is the only woman in existence (just ask any married guy!).  But you need to understand what this means and how it came about:  In recent (very recent) times a young man would flirt with a girl and at some point she would suggest to him that he should visit her parents.  The young man would ask Papa (sometimes via an older representative) for permission to court this young lady.  If Papa (and Mama) said yes, then a period of time began where he would spend a lot of time with her in full view of her family (home visits, walks in the park, church, going with them to the market, etc).

Over time Papa and the young man would begin to talk about life and how it will look in the future.  Advantage young man:  If he stays the course over time, and the girl and her family like him, he will win the girl with no outside competition.  Done deal.  Why so easy?  Because Papa and the lady had agreed that this would be the only young man in consideration until he was eliminated as a possibility or until the wedding. 

Her mindset during courtship is that she is the only woman in your world.

That should clue you in to how most of these ladies view a "plan B."

Is this really done in Russia today?  Sure, it's not universal (nothing is), but not only is it how I was coached to win my wife, but it's being practiced today as we speak with two of our three daughters, of which the oldest (age 26) will be married in an Orthodox ceremony in less than 3 weeks.  And we are not alone.


- She will test you, but don't mistake that as desire for a "sugar daddy."  She tests to guage your determination and sincerity.  In a courtship model she has the right to reject (as can Papa/Mama) a suitor at any time and move on to someone deemed more appropiate or more serious. 

Note:  She will test you in many ways but never using another guy as the test.  If a woman were to use another guy to test you, run like crazy.  She is the one not being serious.


- Have you ever heard the expression that she is looking for a REAL man or for a REAL meeting.  Once you have indicated a desire to court her, you need to be in a position to move forward.  Don't appear to her as if you are "fishing" because that is not what courtship is about.  You need to understand that courtship in itself is a sign of committment.  Either you want her in your life or you don't (far, far different from our Western concept of using "dating" to test compability!).


- In fact she looking more for CHARACTER than for compability.  Life changes people's habits and circumstances (compability) but character and the ability to maintain stability and focus thru those changes does not change.  In investment lingo, she is a "long term investor."


- This has very little to do with sexual attraction.  That is why she will reserve the right to court a man not as "handsome" as others.  Of course she wants someone she can look at with respect and not be repulsed, but you don't have to be a "Don Juan" to win her heart.  You need to be capable, determined and sincere.


- Maintaining her composure at all costs means everything to a traditional Russian Woman so your job is to give them that opportunity.  It means walking on the outside of the sidewalk to protect her from traffic, offering your arm as she steps off the bus, opening doors, help her with a chair, taking her coat, etc.  If you are not a social gentleman, you may not get very far with a RW.


- Family is very important to her final decision.  Don't ever make the mistake of underestimating this power.  If you have courted her mother and father, invested time in her extended family, and gained the respect of her friends, you can almost assume that her heart will follow you.  Its the safest bet one can make with a Russian lady.


Well I'm going to comment on another old thread. Oh well.

I don't really agree with this post.  To me it only shows one view and section of the ladies that exist in Russia the advice is very narrow.  This approach would have never worked with my Russian wife (she died two years ago in a car crash with a drunk driver) as she was a totally different person from her family and parents.  She stuck out like a sore thumb and saw the world in a completely different manner than they did and the idea of courtship to her was a nonsensical practice best left behind in the past.  All she wanted was someone who could understand her and love her for who she was.

I think the absolute most important thing when searching for a lady is to know yourself.  If you don't who you are you will never be able to find the right person to fit you.  All the advice in the world will mean nothing if you don't know what it is that you must have in a partner.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2009, 12:35:39 AM »
Zagoc, it's not a black and white world but having lived in Russia and having raised children in Russia, including our 3rd daughter (and hopefully final!) one who is 19 and courting while attending Moscow State, I am very comfortably confident in this viewpoint. Many of those comments were what I see on a regular basis.

But you are right in that not everyone is the same. That is what makes life interesting. My friend Rasputin would probably write that his wife sounds much like yours.

Also, our condolences on the loss of your wife. It is hard to lose someone you love, especially in a tragic accident. May God give you peace and also the hope of finding someone to share your life and dreams in your new search.

Offline zagoc

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2009, 02:13:57 AM »
Zagoc, it's not a black and white world but having lived in Russia and having raised children in Russia, including our 3rd daughter (and hopefully final!) one who is 19 and courting while attending Moscow State, I am very comfortably confident in this viewpoint. Many of those comments were what I see on a regular basis.

But you are right in that not everyone is the same. That is what makes life interesting. My friend Rasputin would probably write that his wife sounds much like yours.

Also, our condolences on the loss of your wife. It is hard to lose someone you love, especially in a tragic accident. May God give you peace and also the hope of finding someone to share your life and dreams in your new search.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree because I cannot think of it like this.  Your supporting evidence only shows that it fits for your view of the family but look at the over 1 billion Indians who have arranged marriages and a low divorce rate.  Their numbers far exceed your small data set so does that mean we should all follow the same method?

What I want people to realize is that your post is a narrow view and it shows a tiny picture of the possibilities and that others shouldn't take such advice.  Advice from other people means close to nothing to another person in who they need for themselves.  They need to carefully think about who they are and understand themselves and then they will be able to determine what it is they must find for themselves in a partner.  If they don't know who they are the advice they take from others will almost never lead them down the right path.

I have always found the thought that just because you have lived somewhere or been married to someone to assume the position that you can speak with authority about all the people in an area to highly arrogant.  I was married for close to 10 years but I don't claim to know what is a Russian woman but I knew exactly who my wife was.  Know yourself and who you are involved with as nothing else really makes any sense.

That is how I see it.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2009, 08:22:14 AM »
Quote
What I want people to realize is that your post is a narrow view and it shows a tiny picture of the possibilities and that others shouldn't take such advice.

Then why have several of the RW on this board said it is spot on?

No, my view isn't only of my own family. As a journalist I've traveled all over the FSU and this is a fair compilation of what not only myself, but other professional observers have noted over a considerable length of time.

By the way, we appear to agree regarding Indian marriages and this type of arrangement is more common in Russia's East and the former Eastern republics, where also the divorce rates are lower than in European Russia.

Much of what I have observed and written could also be found in Indian family relationships.

Offline alenika

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2009, 11:27:52 AM »
Advantage young man:  If he stays the course over time, and the girl and her family like him, he will win the girl with no outside competition.
................
Her mindset during courtship is that she is the only woman in your world.
................
You need to understand that courtship in itself is a sign of committment.

All she wanted was someone who could understand her and love her for who she was.
I agree with both of you and don't think that one contradicts another.
I close eyes to see better

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2009, 08:08:29 PM »
Alenika, blessed are the peacemakers.   tiphat

Offline zagoc

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2009, 10:22:26 PM »
Quote
What I want people to realize is that your post is a narrow view and it shows a tiny picture of the possibilities and that others shouldn't take such advice.

Then why have several of the RW on this board said it is spot on?

No, my view isn't only of my own family. As a journalist I've traveled all over the FSU and this is a fair compilation of what not only myself, but other professional observers have noted over a considerable length of time.

By the way, we appear to agree regarding Indian marriages and this type of arrangement is more common in Russia's East and the former Eastern republics, where also the divorce rates are lower than in European Russia.

Much of what I have observed and written could also be found in Indian family relationships.


They agreed because they agree with what you wrote but I also know Russian ladies who would totally disagree.  To assume that your view is the only "correct" way is just plain foolish.  If you can only see one way then you are very foolish.

Anyways, I don't want to fight.  I want others on the board to know there is another view and that your view isn't the only "right" way just because you happened to marry a lady that way.  As I married a lady in a completely different manner and she would have been insulted by your suggestion of how to marry.  

I want other readers on the forum to think for themselves and find what works for them. 

I wouldn't say India works like that.  I lived there for about 2 years while assisting with IT work and got to know many of them really well.  

Offline mirror

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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2009, 11:05:17 PM »
Zagoc, as to the RW who agreed with what I wrote, how foolish are they on a scale of 1-10?

My friend, if you wish to pursue another way, please do so and you'll have no quarrel from me.

I would be foolish to say somthing:
- if I saw differently with my own eyes.
- if it was different that my own experience.
- if it was different that how my daughters were raised, in Russia.

Did I make generalizations? Hell yes, and I'm again, confidently comfortable with those. Why? Because they're easy generalizations to make based on consistent evidence.

I make my home among these people. My work, how I earn a living, is about life and events in the FSU. When in the USA my work from 8am to 6pm is about Eastern Europe. When in Russia its the same. My weekends in Russia are spent doing what other Russian families do. My weekends in the USA are spent at a Russian church. I own a home in Russia and a business. I'm not a 1 or 2 time or even a 10 or 15 time traveler.

If you think that my only experience in this adventure is to marry a RW, then it is you who is mistaken. I don't write stuff because it's cute or novel. As a journalist I'd be foolish if I wrote anything other than what I see.

I don't feel mad at you for disagreeing. I think that there are many RW just like your beloved wife. My friend Rasputin married one far different that what I wrote. But it's doesn't represent the majority.

But an exception is just that--an exception. Even an exception is okay. I'm not calling you foolish to hold your view.


I do think we should be clear about this:

Quote
Your supporting evidence only shows that it fits for your view of the family but look at the over 1 billion Indians who have arranged marriages and a low divorce rate.

I only agreed with what you said. Are you disagreeing with yourself now?

Quote
I wouldn't say India works like that.  I lived there for about 2 years while assisting with IT work and got to know many of them really well.  

Relax my friend. Take a deep breath. I wish you the best in your journey. No hard feelings here.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2009, 11:21:07 PM »
Mirror, very nice!  I think you will enjoy this one too:


Любите женщину за грусть,
которую от Вас скрывает.
За то, что рядом с нею
груз проблем быстрее убывает.
Любите женщину за ум,
который и велик и скромен.
За детского веселья шум,
рассветным утром в Вашем доме.
Любите женщину за ночь,
которую она Вам дарит,
И за желание помочь,
когда смертельно Вы устали.

Offline zagoc

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2009, 11:49:11 PM »
Zagoc, as to the RW who agreed with what I wrote, how foolish are they on a scale of 1-10?

My friend, if you wish to pursue another way, please do so and you'll have no quarrel from me.

I would be foolish to say somthing:
- if I saw differently with my own eyes.
- if it was different that my own experience.
- if it was different that how my daughters were raised, in Russia.

Did I make generalizations? Hell yes, and I'm again, confidently comfortable with those. Why? Because they're easy generalizations to make based on consistent evidence.

I make my home among these people. My work, how I earn a living, is about life and events in the FSU. When in the USA my work from 8am to 6pm is about Eastern Europe. When in Russia its the same. My weekends in Russia are spent doing what other Russian families do. My weekends in the USA are spent at a Russian church. I own a home in Russia and a business. I'm not a 1 or 2 time or even a 10 or 15 time traveler.

If you think that my only experience in this adventure is to marry a RW, then it is you who is mistaken. I don't write stuff because it's cute or novel. As a journalist I'd be foolish if I wrote anything other than what I see.

I don't feel mad at you for disagreeing. I think that there are many RW just like your beloved wife. My friend Rasputin married one far different that what I wrote. But it's doesn't represent the majority.

But an exception is just that--an exception. Even an exception is okay. I'm not calling you foolish to hold your view.


I do think we should be clear about this:

Quote
Your supporting evidence only shows that it fits for your view of the family but look at the over 1 billion Indians who have arranged marriages and a low divorce rate.

I only agreed with what you said. Are you disagreeing with yourself now?

Quote
I wouldn't say India works like that.  I lived there for about 2 years while assisting with IT work and got to know many of them really well.  

Relax my friend. Take a deep breath. I wish you the best in your journey. No hard feelings here.

Look at what alenika wrote.  She could see both sides and is not foolish at all.  If people can see both sides I would not consider them foolish at all.  You on the other hand are assuming many things about me and the percentage of people that are like my wife.

I don't see how you can be in the FSU so much and not notice the changes.  I lived there for several years with my wife and noticed many changes taking place, especially in the makeup of the younger generation and how they see and pursue their goals in life, particular the non-religious group.

As usual when dealing with narrow minded people like you I see that you believe that you must be in the majority and that people like my wife are the exception.  I really feel sorry for you that you cannot see more of the world.

Also, your argument reminds of those people who say we must do something one way because we have always done it take way and it works so why change.  People you like you would have left us trapped in the past with no way to move forward.

You assumed that I was agreeing with you about India.  I never said I did.

Well, I'm done.  The readers on the forum can figure out what they choose to believe but I have much more important things to do with my time than argue with you.

Offline mirror

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2009, 11:52:16 PM »
Mirror, very nice!  I think you will enjoy this one too:




Pity,I can't open this link.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2009, 12:08:09 AM »
Quote
You on the other hand are assuming many things about me and the percentage of people that are like my wife.

I have not called you foolish. I have only said good things about your wife and wished you well in your new venture.



Quote
I don't see how you can be in the FSU so much and not notice the changes.  I lived there for several years with my wife and noticed many changes taking place, especially in the makeup of the younger generation



I have a 19 year old daughter born and raised in Russia. Haven't missed a thing.


Quote
and how they see and pursue their goals in life, particular the non-religious group

The Russian government, and in particular President Medvedev, says the under 30 age group is the most religious group he's seen in a life time. Are you calling him foolish too?


Quote
As usual when dealing with narrow minded people like you I see that you believe that you must be in the majority.



Quote
You assumed that I was agreeing with you about India.  I never said I did.

You're the only who brought up India. Please show me what I assumed.


Zagoc, I'm not in the majority. I'm not Russian. But I would be dishonest to report what I don't see.

I'm curious as to why I'm foolish and narrow minded? Is it because I have an opinion different from yours?

Again, your view is welcome here. On this thread. As expressed previously I'm sorry about the passing of your wife. That is a terrible burder. Now that you feel ready to begin the venture again, I wish you the best.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2009, 12:33:08 AM »

Offline Jared2151

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2009, 08:04:06 AM »

  Am I allowed to tell an annoying, argumentive poster to ...

"Do piss off mate." ?  ( that just sounds so much nicer than the American equivalent )

  If I'm not allowed, please forgive the intrusion.

 tiphat

Offline MND

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2009, 08:53:23 AM »
Mirror, very nice!  I think you will enjoy this one too:


Любите женщину за грусть,
которую от Вас скрывает.
За то, что рядом с нею
груз проблем быстрее убывает.
Любите женщину за ум,
который и велик и скромен.
За детского веселья шум,
рассветным утром в Вашем доме.
Любите женщину за ночь,
которую она Вам дарит,
И за желание помочь,
когда смертельно Вы устали.


Hey mend that is one of my favourite Lionel Ritchie songs with him and Enrique Iglesias singing together

Offline 2tallbill

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2009, 06:45:43 PM »

  Am I allowed to tell an annoying, argumentive poster to ...

"Do piss off mate." ?  ( that just sounds so much nicer than the American equivalent )

  If I'm not allowed, please forgive the intrusion.

 tiphat

I don't know the rules and I am not going to read them
but I think you have to spell mate either m8 or M8

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline Lon

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Re: How Russian women view COURTSHIP and Dating
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2009, 01:12:58 PM »

I am thinking that both are right as mentioned earlier.  And how much of each view was influenced by what each was looking
for in a woman?  Make sense?


 

 

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