To Evpatoria!

[tbelknap]

Markje, I wouldn't have married my wife if I followed the crap advice from Rasputin.

I agree that his advice is too abrupt to follow but calling it crap does not make you look better either.

Speaking of looking great, welcome Stirlitz.  Glad you came back from your last temper tantrum.   


Thomas

[Nando]

Discussing is getting kind of juicy

Buying expensive gifts for a first meeting?
Oh boy I am a cheapskate I never did that

Judging people immaturity because he forgot condoms is also a bit abrupt Olga
I hope a man doesn't have to carry them for the first meeting too

Come on, our Markje is not a naive man and can judge if his now GF is the right girl for him

[mirror]

Remember, I never met her before. I didn't know if she was going to be special or not. It was a first-date situation, are you saying that on first date you buy tons of expensive gifts? I am having a layover in Moscow next time instead of Prague!

If you will come to meet a woman with cheap gift don't be surprised to see her disappointed face. Under "cheap" I mean not money but a thing what looks like a cheap stuff. I guess you both were talking in a chat,maybe you saw each other through camera
so why to say that you never met her before? you had a chance to discuss about presents in your talk.
It is like I bought gold thing for a man with whom I met  and he presented me something cheap. Don't you see any reason to me to be disappointed? 

[mendeleyev]

My friend Thomas can vent pretty quickly on a forum and then later he comes back down to earth pretty quickly once the smoke has cleared.  Both he and Rasputin are reasonable people.

I shared Rasputin's and Wild Orchid's concerns and probably should have stated so earlier.  Mark is a dear man and very valuable behind the scenes here as well as his role of member and contributor.  I think what we all wish for him is happiness.  We were watching his trip in anticipation, excited for him, and naturally it felt good to share his joy.  We so want him to find love that perhaps we hesitate instead of speaking out.  And there seemed to be a lot of things to like about this lady as well.

Ultimately Mark will make the decision on his own.  That's the way it should be.  The fact is that none of us were there with Mark and so he must aptly filter through all the advice, kudos, warnings, and congraduations as the relationship moves forward.  It is good for each of us to remember that the reason for posting here is to share experiences, make helpful comments, and sometimes offer valuable insights, which is what Rasputin did.  There is also validity in understanding her level of English.  Depending on circumstances, having the lady as the translator is almost as dangerous as taking along an interpreter.  But alas, someone has to do it.

[Markje]

If you will come to meet a woman with cheap gift don't be surprised to see her disappointed face. Under "cheap" I mean not money but a thing what looks like a cheap stuff. I guess you both were talking in a chat,maybe you saw each other through camera
so why to say that you never met her before? you had a chance to discuss about presents in your talk.
It is like I bought gold thing for a man with whom I met  and he presented me something cheap. Don't you see any reason to me to be disappointed? 

Yes, I did discuss presents on webcam before going to meet her. She said that :You come to Evpatoria is my present.

Also, webcam can tell you a bit about the lady, but the first meeting in real life, is still first date. I webcammed for a few hours at least before going to kharkov, yet i knew within 1 date she was not my lady.

[Wild Orchid]

It is like I bought gold thing for a man with whom I met  and he presented me something cheap. Don't you see any reason to me to be disappointed? 

Why would you do that?  Would you really buy something expensive for a person who you never met in real life before?

My husband bought me something during our first meeting, but it was at the end of it. I don't know if he brought something with him, because he came to Russia not because of me.

[Markje]

Ultimately Mark will make the decision on his own.  That's the way it should be.  The fact is that none of us were there with Mark and so he must aptly filter through all the advice, kudos, warnings, and congraduations as the relationship moves forward.  It is good for each of us to remember that the reason for posting here is to share experiences, make helpful comments, and sometimes offer valuable insights, which is what Rasputin did.  There is also validity in understanding her level of English.  Depending on circumstances, having the lady as the translator is almost as dangerous as taking along an interpreter.  But alas, someone has to do it.

I value all input of course, but 1 bad SMS when she is sick and hurting on a fantastisc week otherwise. I'd say I was doing very good. After this week, our frequency on SMS and webchat went through the roof. My phone provider will probably send me my next bill in a cardboard box, instead of postal envelope 

[mirror]

Wild orchid
Why would you do that?  Would you really buy something expensive for a person who you never met in real life before?

It was not too expensive to me ...but I was surprised to see how is WM is greedy to buy a present.
And I am glad he will remember me forever by looking at this my present...sure he will never throw it away.

[Stirlitz]

Cheap, not greedy

Speaking of looking great, welcome Stirlitz.  Glad you came back from your last temper tantrum.   

Manchester promised to me that he would be teasing me about juice all the time so I am happy now. As my rodent friend seems to have fizzled out and exhausted his energy. This sucks because it is boring.

[tbelknap]

Cheap, not greedy

Speaking of looking great, welcome Stirlitz.  Glad you came back from your last temper tantrum.   

Manchester promised to me that he would be teasing me about juice all the time so I am happy now. As my rodent friend seems to have fizzled out and exhausted his energy. This sucks because it is boring.

lol

[tbelknap]

My friend Thomas can vent pretty quickly on a forum and then later he comes back down to earth pretty quickly once the smoke has cleared.  Both he and Rasputin are reasonable people.

You are correct mendeleyev , I need to exercise more patience on these forums.   

I would like to make a few comments.  We really don't know much about Markje's relationship.  He may have had playful conversations regarding gifts and joked about it previously.  How would it look in that context if she continued the joke after they met?  Probably not bad at all since she was continuing a joke they had before they met.

I think people are jumping ship a little too soon.  I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.  He and everyone else is only getting a small glimpse of what happened.  Only Markje knows and he really didn't ask us for our opinions.   I have seen it on these boards far too many times.  People get stuck in analysis mode and decide they will analyze someone's actions regardless if they were asked.  Markje didn't ask.  In fact, I trust Markje knows what he is doing and will ask for help if he needs it.  Luckily Markje has a level head and didn't let this little road bump interfere with his relationship.  Others, it seems, would have ran for the hills and may have missed a special woman.



Thomas

[Wild Orchid]

that is what happens on forums. If you share information, be prepared that somebody will have an opinion on that information which they will want to share as well.

[bobjf]

an opinion is just that,your opinion & only yours,no one can realistically say what someone else did in a relationship is right or wrong ,simply because it concerns only the couple involved regardless of what  anyone else thinks

there is no right or wrong way,if it works its right end of story

stats & so called theories prove nothing,humans have a habit of making things work in there own way & not to some rule book dreamed up by those who should know better

[Simoni]

an opinion is just that,your opinion & only yours,no one can realistically say what someone else did in a relationship is right or wrong ,simply because it concerns only the couple involved regardless of what  anyone else thinks

That is correct.  However, the principe remains that it important for the poster to be "warned" when suspicious things happen.   He can take the advice or not, but the advice should be given.

[bobjf]

an opinion is just that,your opinion & only yours,no one can realistically say what someone else did in a relationship is right or wrong ,simply because it concerns only the couple involved regardless of what  anyone else thinks

That is correct.  However, the principe remains that it important for the poster to be "warned" when suspicious things happen.   He can take the advice or not, but the advice should be given.

depends whether it is suspicious to his mind or just a concern,i  fell for listening to others & almost crueled myself with my now wife, glad i engaged my own thought process befrore it was to late
agree advice can be offered & should be taken onboard but it is still self opinionated whether singular or the same by a few & as such maybe just be a guide.

even so called red flags are not necessarily the same for everyone & the individual needs to suss out what is happening befor jumping to conclusions or writeing off a potential  partner because it was a red flag for someone else, i say this about other than the obvious
1's that are universal
everyone is different & misunderstandings in this venture have destroyed many relationships unnecessarily,always seek clarification from the source & think with your head not your heart

[Rasputin]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

What advice? I simply said what I would have done and I cautioned Mark to be wary. The difference is that: 1) I speak Russian; 2) I have been going to Russia for over a decade and know a thing or two about the "culture" and 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife. Yes, I admit that I was picky and looking for perfection, and I would never have apologized for gifts that I bought or did not buy. 

[tbelknap]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

What advice? I simply said what I would have done and I cautioned Mark to be wary. The difference is that: 1) I speak Russian; 2) I have been going to Russia for over a decade and know a thing or two about the "culture" and 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife. Yes, I admit that I was picky and looking for perfection, and I would never have apologized for gifts that I bought or did not buy. 

    Now that is funny.

You actually told Mark he is being trained like a dog which is why you got the comments I sent you.  You don't know much about "women".


Thomas

[Nando]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife.

That is boasting about yourself but doesn't say much. Even a ugly, fat, bald and old guy can have lots of devushkas vying for his attention in Ukraine, local or foreigenr men it doesn't matter, only the size of the wallet. Don't tell me Russia is different

[Rasputin]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

What advice? I simply said what I would have done and I cautioned Mark to be wary. The difference is that: 1) I speak Russian; 2) I have been going to Russia for over a decade and know a thing or two about the "culture" and 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife. Yes, I admit that I was picky and looking for perfection, and I would never have apologized for gifts that I bought or did not buy. 

    Now that is funny.

You actually told Mark he is being trained like a dog which is why you got the comments I sent you.  You don't know much about "women".


Thomas

Yes, women will test a man and see what they can get away with, and men will do the same. It is important to keep in mind that some women are "korystnaya." Yes, in my opinion, a woman who sends an SMS complaining that you are not buying gifts or the wrong kind of gifts would be interpreted by me as a test by her to see how I would react. It would be a means of setting the tone of the relationship and it would define future expectations. It can be written off as "language barrier" or a "joke," but for me it would certainly raise some questions and at the very least I would proceed with caution. Mark is a big boy and smart enough to understand what is going on and do what is best for him. However, this is a discussion forum. Where is it written that our only role here is to be cheerleaders? 

[Rasputin]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife.

That is boasting about yourself but doesn't say much. Even a ugly, fat, bald and old guy can have lots of devushkas vying for his attention in Ukraine, local or foreigenr men it doesn't matter, only the size of the wallet. Don't tell me Russia is different

Yes, it is boasting and it also the truth. Fortunately, I am not fat, bald or old and did not rely on a fat wallet to get dates. Truth be told, I did not even buy my wife a gift until two months into the relationship.

[Nando]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife.

That is boasting about yourself but doesn't say much. Even a ugly, fat, bald and old guy can have lots of devushkas vying for his attention in Ukraine, local or foreigenr men it doesn't matter, only the size of the wallet. Don't tell me Russia is different

Yes, it is boasting and it also the truth. Fortunately, I am not fat, bald or old and did not rely on a fat wallet to get dates. Truth be told, I did not even buy my wife a gift until two months into the relationship.

But the argument that a guy is handsome and has a very high IQ is used in these forums until exhaustion.
I have to see the first WM on these forum saying that he has an hottie has a wife because of the size of the wallet and lifestyle he can provide.
If he is old and fat it is because of his incredibly high IQ and social skills off course what else

[Rasputin]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife.

That is boasting about yourself but doesn't say much. Even a ugly, fat, bald and old guy can have lots of devushkas vying for his attention in Ukraine, local or foreigenr men it doesn't matter, only the size of the wallet. Don't tell me Russia is different

Yes, it is boasting and it also the truth. Fortunately, I am not fat, bald or old and did not rely on a fat wallet to get dates. Truth be told, I did not even buy my wife a gift until two months into the relationship.

But the argument that a guy is handsome and has a very high IQ is used in these forums until exhaustion.
I have to see the first WM on these forum saying that he has an hottie has a wife because of the size of the wallet and lifestyle he can provide.
If he is old and fat it is because of his incredibly high IQ and social skills off course what else

True enough. In my case I was extremely cheap when dating (no fancy restaurants, no gifts until well into the relationship, no trips). I didn't promise my wife anything and if anything my wife knew better than to expect a lot financially from me. One of my first dates: taking my wife to go plant some potatoes in a Russian village  If my wife was for me because of "lifestyle" she would have dumped me at that point  As for my life in Canada, it is also very modest. I do not have a rich lifestyle. If she is still with me, it certainly isn't for the money and gifts that I lavish on her. So, clearly, she is with me for something other than a fat wallet and lavish lifestyle.

[Chillidog]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

What advice? I simply said what I would have done and I cautioned Mark to be wary. The difference is that: 1) I speak Russian; 2) I have been going to Russia for over a decade and know a thing or two about the "culture" and 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife. Yes, I admit that I was picky and looking for perfection, and I would never have apologized for gifts that I bought or did not buy. 

    Now that is funny.

You actually told Mark he is being trained like a dog which is why you got the comments I sent you.  You don't know much about "women".


Thomas

Yes, women will test a man and see what they can get away with, and men will do the same. It is important to keep in mind that some women are "korystnaya." Yes, in my opinion, a woman who sends an SMS complaining that you are not buying gifts or the wrong kind of gifts would be interpreted by me as a test by her to see how I would react. It would be a means of setting the tone of the relationship and it would define future expectations. It can be written off as "language barrier" or a "joke," but for me it would certainly raise some questions and at the very least I would proceed with caution. Mark is a big boy and smart enough to understand what is going on and do what is best for him. However, this is a discussion forum. Where is it written that our only role here is to be cheerleaders? 

Yes, in the context that you write it can be taken that the women was testing the waters, and trying to see what 'powers' she had. Mark then went on and stated this 'sms' did upset him, he told the lady this and it seems to me they came to an understanding, it does not appear to me that Mark became the servant in this relationship, it also appears to me he handeled it well, he was aware that there could be a language problem, he took into account the whole week leading up to this point and did not allow one 'sms' to break down the good that had been built, he saw this as a potential problem and addressed his concerns immeadiatly with his lady, what more can be asked of him.

I agree with bobjf, if we listened and took 'everyone's advice' we would all be up "sh*t creek without a paddle" no one is perfect, no one handles everything correct, and there must be a little latitude in relationships even more so in the beginning, to give a person the benifit of the doubt before condeming there actions or words.

I do not see a problem in pointing out 'red flags' something you feel the person is overlooking or not seeing, but in this situation it WAS addressed the same day it happend and answered to Mark's satisfaction and should be a non-issue

[Nando]

I do think what Rasputin said was bad advice.

 3) I was not desperate and I had young, attractive women vying for my attention when I met my wife.

That is boasting about yourself but doesn't say much. Even a ugly, fat, bald and old guy can have lots of devushkas vying for his attention in Ukraine, local or foreigenr men it doesn't matter, only the size of the wallet. Don't tell me Russia is different

Yes, it is boasting and it also the truth. Fortunately, I am not fat, bald or old and did not rely on a fat wallet to get dates. Truth be told, I did not even buy my wife a gift until two months into the relationship.

But the argument that a guy is handsome and has a very high IQ is used in these forums until exhaustion.
I have to see the first WM on these forum saying that he has an hottie has a wife because of the size of the wallet and lifestyle he can provide.
If he is old and fat it is because of his incredibly high IQ and social skills off course what else

True enough. In my case I was extremely cheap when dating (no fancy restaurants, no gifts until well into the relationship, no trips). I didn't promise my wife anything and if anything my wife knew better than to expect a lot financially from me. One of my first dates: taking my wife to go plant some potatoes in a Russian village  If my wife was for me because of "lifestyle" she would have dumped me at that point  As for my life in Canada, it is also very modest. I do not have a rich lifestyle. If she is still with me, it certainly isn't for the money and gifts that I lavish on her. So, clearly, she is with me for something other than a fat wallet and lavish lifestyle.

We already know that you are not fat, old and bald, you can stop boasting about you
My statement was not specifically targeted to you or anyone in particular but I would love to find the first guy to admit that ugly truth 

[Chillidog]

markje,

congratulations on a great first meeting (first step) and I hope you both find in this relationship the life partner you are searching for. Great story and Photos

P.S. what type of camera did you use on your trip?

as far as perfume, I have always had good success with
Lancome of Paris ----Hypnose
http://lancome-usa.com/fragrance/hypnose.aspx