Electric Cars - EVs

[Bodine]

Let’s face it if it wasn’t for Elon, the US would be lagging in innovative technology, EVs among them. The revelation of DeepSeek shouldn’t come as a surprise.

Cheaper and better is a good testament of that. CATL’s Zen Yuqun already had switched from lithium ion to sodium ion batteries and is fast making battery charging a thing of the past. Why charge for 30 minutes when you can just drive-thru and exchange battery in less than 10 minutes and get over 600 mile range. Yeah, even in cold weather.

[Manny]

The US is lagging behind in EV technology. Chinese EVs are way ahead. Not just BYD and stuff you might have heard of, but stuff you have probably never heard of like the Zeekr 009 and many others. The US and Europe blocks the import of most of them.

[Markje]

The US is lagging behind in EV technology. Chinese EVs are way ahead. Not just BYD and stuff you might have heard of, but stuff you have probably never heard of like the Zeekr 009 and many others. The US and Europe blocks the import of most of them.

One of my current collegues has a Zeekr, not that 09 in your youtube though, but a compact model. Although it performs nicely, he is not satisfied with the price of running-costs. (not zeekr-specific).

He calculated that with current energy and gas prices in the Netherlands, he pays about Eur-60 , for 400km in his zeekr, or Eur 100 for 850km range in his BMW 318 (F-series model)

[Manny]

The US is lagging behind in EV technology. Chinese EVs are way ahead. Not just BYD and stuff you might have heard of, but stuff you have probably never heard of like the Zeekr 009 and many others. The US and Europe blocks the import of most of them.

One of my current collegues has a Zeekr, not that 09 in your youtube though, but a compact model. Although it performs nicely, he is not satisfied with the price of running-costs. (not zeekr-specific).

He calculated that with current energy and gas prices in the Netherlands, he pays about Eur-60 , for 400km in his zeekr, or Eur 100 for 850km range in his BMW 318 (F-series model)

It seems they can be bought in the EU, albeit with a 30% import tax:

Zeekr vehicles can be imported into the European Union (EU); however, they are subject to specific tariffs. As of July 2024, the EU imposed a 19.9% provisional countervailing duty on electric vehicles (EVs) produced by Geely, Zeekr's parent company, in addition to the standard 10% import duty applicable to all foreign-made vehicles.

And in Holland, 21% VAT, so a 51% tax essentially.

And a 100% import duty in the US it seems. But "connected" Chinese cars are banned altogether from 2027 in the US I just read. Uncle Sam really wants to keep Chinese cars out.

Thanks to Brexit, they can be imported to the UK at 10%, but like the EU, they then add VAT, which takes it to 30%.

[andrewfi]

While I was in Dubai a few weeks ago, I had a taxi ride in a BYD Han. We picked up the car off the street, had no idea what the thing was, and my girlfriend and I were shocked when we settled down in the back of the car.

I asked the driver what it was, then I asked the cost. It was his own car and it cost him the equivalent of €30K. Shocked we were. The thing was so comfortable, with acres of room in the back.

A bit of checking when I was back in my hotel room revealed that the car we were in was an 'old' model, still available at €30k, even though it was only a few months old. The current version was a tad more costly at, IIRC about €35K. The Han is comparable to BMW 5 Series (especially the i5) and Mercedes EQE.

In tems of price the Han is close in price (with all the taxes and, I guess, some bunce for BYD)
In the Netherlands, the BYD Han, BMW i5, and Mercedes EQE are positioned within a similar market segment, but their pricing varies. Here's a comparison:

BYD Han:
Price: Starts at €69,990.

BMW i5:
i5 eDrive40: Approximately €63,460.

i5 M60: Around €79,895.

Mercedes EQE:

EQE 350+: Approximately €75,736.

EQE 500 4MATIC: Around €87,231.

These prices indicate that the BYD Han is competitively priced within this segment, offering a premium electric sedan experience at a slightly lower entry point compared to some of its German counterparts.

In Dubai:
BMW i5 eDrive40 M Sport Pro: AED 383,257 ≈ €99,500
BMW i5 M60 xDrive: AED 458,857 ≈ €119,200
Mercedes-Benz EQE 350+: AED 395,900 ≈ €102,800

One would have to be insane to choose a BMW or Merc against the Han in Dubai—in value terms at least.

In Europe (or, I guess, North America), the same is true.

Without tariffs and other exclusionary measures, Chinese automakers surpass legacy makers, including Tesla. Tariffs are not the solution, though—at least not without strong efforts by domestic manufacturers to compete. It reminds me of the situation with video recorders in Europe when I was a sprout.
Grundig and Phillips moaned that Japanese manufacturers were dumping VCRs on the European market, and this was unfair. Limits and taxes were set up to give Grundig and Phillips breathing space. Japanese manufacturers increased prices and made extra profit. A few years later, Grunding and Phillips stopped making their poor-quality, overpriced machines because they had not used the time to improve.

Until BMW or Mercedes can offer an equivalent car at a price equivalent to the Han without punitive taxation, they are going to be vulnerable to being eaten alive.

My guess is that the biggest reason we do not see more Chinese cars is that there are only so many available to sell. The Chinese don't mind marking up their cars to take extra profits!

[Markje]

My guess is that the biggest reason we do not see more Chinese cars is that there are only so many available to sell. The Chinese don't mind marking up their cars to take extra profits!

I can't speaak for everyone, but with my current work-circle it isn't availability of the cars themselves but rather warranty + service points that hold them back. Warranty is hard to get and service points are countable on 1 hand in all of netherlands. It might seem like a joke to Americans, but in NL if you have to drive 4 hours round-trip to get your car serviced, people will not buy the car.

[andrewfi]

My guess is that the biggest reason we do not see more Chinese cars is that there are only so many available to sell. The Chinese don't mind marking up their cars to take extra profits!

I can't speaak for everyone, but with my current work-circle it isn't availability of the cars themselves but rather warranty + service points that hold them back. Warranty is hard to get and service points are countable on 1 hand in all of netherlands. It might seem like a joke to Americans, but in NL if you have to drive 4 hours round-trip to get your car serviced, people will not buy the car.

Yes, that's a fair point. These companies are only just starting. In Estonia, BYD has linked up with Inchcape. They have facilities in most of the larger cities. We tend to expect to have to travel a little to dealers - it's a product of the country's demographics. However, networks grow, and to start with, folks are likely to buy if they are comfortably close to service centres. Risk-takers might do so a little further away.

Of course, in Europe, these cars, not just the BYD Han, are being sold at high prices relative to their Chinese prices. Apart from extra taxes, it is clear that the manufacturers are sensibly choosing to price close to incumbent players while offering a value deal to buyers. At the moment the new manufacturers decide to become more aggressive then, absent massive tariffs, there is going to be a bloodbath!

[Faux Pas]

I can't speaak for everyone, but with my current work-circle it isn't availability of the cars themselves but rather warranty + service points that hold them back. Warranty is hard to get and service points are countable on 1 hand in all of netherlands. It might seem like a joke to Americans, but in NL if you have to drive 4 hours round-trip to get your car serviced, people will not buy the car.

There was a point several years ago when I followed it relatively closely. The idea of green energy fascinated me, more significantly the savings at the pump. That's when gas was $3-4 bucks a gallon and Teslas' were just beginning to take off. There were a number of Chinese EV's that were available but problematic to order/buy to get serviced at all would be near impossible. The industry and that aspect has changed since then and dramatically but, none of it positive.

IMO to date, the idea green energy isn't real as it relates to the auto industry. All of the companies producing EVs have the same two problems. It's the pink gorilla in the room it seems never discussed. That being the eco destructiveness of the batteries and the thirst of them to still be connected to coal fired/nuclear plants and grid. Until those problems are solved we are all just pissing on ourselves and calling it rain.

I said all of that to say this; at one point there were a number of Chinese EVs available on the market to the US that seemed to surpass Tesla tech but buying, using and servicing them was a mountain to high to climb. Many of those companies as I understand it have since gone under just from the fact that the auto market was out of reach to them.

[2tallbill]

I said all of that to say this; at one point there were a number of Chinese EVs available on the market to the US that seemed to surpass Tesla tech but buying, using and servicing them was a mountain to high to climb. Many of those companies as I understand it have since gone under just from the fact that the auto market was out of reach to them.

The solution to enter these markets is to use the Japanese model. Assemble
the cars where you want to sell them. If you do that most of the worries
about parts and service go away.

I agree that the problem with EV's in the USA has always been that
1. Nobody wants them
2. We don't have the infrastructure for them, neither the charging stations
nor the grid band width.
3. They ain't really green
4. They cost more

[Jonas!]

 

I agree that the problem with EV's in the USA has always been that
1. Nobody wants them
2. We don't have the infrastructure for them, neither the charging stations
nor the grid band width.
 

...but people DO want them.  Our household has had a Tesla for around 6 years now...it has been great.  Charging not really a problem although mildly inconvenient especially when using chains in the mountains, it needs charging quickly...or on a super-hot Vegas dash across the desert...but in normal circumstances it is really nice. 

Yes it was fairly expensive at the time... I read that Tesla has a recycling program for used batteries.   

I support people getting to choose...I need a big strong truck, but other members of the household can flitter around in their little electric vehicles and they do just fine. 

Jonas! 

[Markje]

My next wheels will probably bee an iX5 full electric, or its predecessor X5-Hybrid.

I need to talk to my brother about his experiences so far with the tesla he owned and its replacement, a renault scenic (full electric version) (yes, he ditched the tesla, he said it was cheap built and spent more time at the garage than all of his previously owned cars before that)

[Bodine]

 

I agree that the problem with EV's in the USA has always been that
1. Nobody wants them
2. We don't have the infrastructure for them, neither the charging stations
nor the grid band width.
 

...but people DO want them.  Our household has had a Tesla for around 6 years now...it has been great.  Charging not really a problem although mildly inconvenient especially when using chains in the mountains, it needs charging quickly...or on a super-hot Vegas dash across the desert...but in normal circumstances it is really nice. 

Yes it was fairly expensive at the time... I read that Tesla has a recycling program for used batteries.   

I support people getting to choose...I need a big strong truck, but other members of the household can flitter around in their little electric vehicles and they do just fine. 

Jonas!

Wifey waited for the release of Audi Q6 eTron for nearly a year and Audi did late last year. She absolutely loves the car and the Audi people had always been pretty awesome with her for years now.

My company approved my request to get a Model Y but I insisted to instead wait for the refresh model, dubbed Juniper. It has now just released. My only reservation now is our household will be, and soon is, totally reliant on EV, and if we ever suffer from a rolling brownout as California had experienced before, then LIFT or Uber better have those dumb gas-driven/combusting, air-polluting heap on 4-wheels. 

[Faux Pas]

 

I agree that the problem with EV's in the USA has always been that
1. Nobody wants them
2. We don't have the infrastructure for them, neither the charging stations
nor the grid band width.
 

...but people DO want them.  Our household has had a Tesla for around 6 years now...it has been great.  Charging not really a problem although mildly inconvenient especially when using chains in the mountains, it needs charging quickly...or on a super-hot Vegas dash across the desert...but in normal circumstances it is really nice. 

Yes it was fairly expensive at the time... I read that Tesla has a recycling program for used batteries.   

I support people getting to choose...I need a big strong truck, but other members of the household can flitter around in their little electric vehicles and they do just fine. 

Jonas!

If we stick to the premise of supply and demand I say fine, let those who want those over priced sleds have them. May the infrastructure for them work the same way. Obama and then Bidan attempted to legislate them into ownership. Literally forcing folks to buy them. First subsidizing them then, mandating in the future that only EVs will be sold. Completely ignoring the fact that we do not have the technology (in them) to be a true green energy. That being that anytime during the life of the vehicle it needs to connect to the grid, it's not green energy.

I've always had a gas powered truck 4x4 because I not only need it, I want it. We did for a few years have a Hybrid in the household and I loved the efficiency of it. But, when the mileage started to climb, so did the problems and the expense of keeping it up. It just wasn't worth the expense or aggravation of it.

[andrewfi]

IMHO, blasting EVs for not being fully green is a canard.
A benefit of EV use, as used by most drivers, is to shift the pollution from tailpipe emissions to some other place. That means moving pollution away from urban areas and away to where power is generated. The emissions can be ameliorated to some degree, and those that remain are not breathed in by crowds of humans around the produced pollution.

Over time, as we move toward lower-emission power generation, the environmental benefits of EVs accumulate.

This may not be a massive issue in the perceptions of those who live in relatively low-density urban areas, such as those often found in the cities of the USA. Still, it is bad enough in genuinely high-density urban regions, such as those in Asia and parts of Europe.

[Faux Pas]

IMHO, blasting EVs for not being fully green is a canard.
A benefit of EV use, as used by most drivers, is to shift the pollution from tailpipe emissions to some other place. That means moving pollution away from urban areas and away to where power is generated. The emissions can be ameliorated to some degree, and those that remain are not breathed in by crowds of humans around the produced pollution.

Over time, as we move toward lower-emission power generation, the environmental benefits of EVs accumulate.

This may not be a massive issue in the perceptions of those who live in relatively low-density urban areas, such as those often found in the cities of the USA. Still, it is bad enough in genuinely high-density urban regions, such as those in Asia and parts of Europe.

So you're completely "okay" with the pollution as long as it's not say in your neighborhood? The neighborhoods in and around the coal fired and nuclear plants can worry about themselves? That's the height of hypocrisy. We simply do not have the technology or the infrastructure to make it a viable option for most Americans at this point in time. We haven't even discussed the Lithium damage to the planet or the slave labor involved in that aspect of it.

I've no issue with anyone buying, driving or promoting EVs hoping for a better future. None whatsoever but, the claims of cleaner, better environment for doing so are full of kaka. Simply put, we ain't there yet and from the looks of it we've got a very long way to go. As long as it connects to a grid at any point, it's burning what is considered "fossil fuels". You can put all the lipstick and rouge on that pig you want. It's still a pig

[andrewfi]

I am a rational man. As such, I understand any pollution is not good. However, as a rational man, I can see the benefit of shifting it to a place where the net harm to human health from pollution is reduced.

The power stations already exist.

Do a little learning and ally your new knowledge with a bit of thinking. Learning can be both interesting and fun.

I am not the biggest fan of EVs for all sorts of reasons, however, it is hard to argue from an objective position that the net environmental impact of a new EV is higher than the net effect of a new IC automobile over the respective expected life cycle of each type.

[Faux Pas]

I am a rational man. As such, I understand any pollution is not good. However, as a rational man, I can see the benefit of shifting it to a place where the net harm to human health from pollution is reduced.

The power stations already exist.

Do a little learning and ally your new knowledge with a bit of thinking. Learning can be both interesting and fun.

I am not the biggest fan of EVs for all sorts of reasons, however, it is hard to argue from an objective position that the net environmental impact of a new EV is higher than the net effect of a new IC automobile over the respective expected life cycle of each type.

I too, consider myself a rational man. Whether or not we are is quite objective. To date there is no decline in net pollution since the inception of EVs. Go figure. Granted I live in one of the less densely population places you mentioned. I have spent a great deal on time in the bigger metro highly polluted cities. I get what you're saying but EVs changing any of that is nothing more than propaganda and fantasy at this point.

It's not accomplishing what was advertised. It simply doesn't work, yet. You would do yourself well to get out of that box you live in and see the world as it is. At least try to start thinking on your own.

[WestCoast]

What about when the cost to replace a damaged battery pack on a near new EV exceeds the cost of the car? Maybe costs of battery packs for EVs are dropping but are they dropping fast enough?


https://www.collisionrepairmag.com/shock-rates-60000-repair-bill-leads-to-scrapping-of-2022-model-year-ev/

[Manny]

To date there is no decline in net pollution since the inception of EVs. Go figure. Granted I live in one of the less densely populated places you mentioned. I have spent a great deal on time in the bigger metro highly polluted cities. I get what you're saying but EVs changing any of that is nothing more than propaganda and fantasy at this point.

It's not accomplishing what was advertised. It simply doesn't work, yet.

That reflects my view on EVs. You're displacing the pollution someplace else. And when you factor in all the resources to mine for battery ingredients, build them and ship them, that adds a big factor. Then they are setting on fire, often can't be fixed locally, or not cost-effectively (see Westy above), inadequate charging infrastructure, etc. That's not to say some arent interesting, certainly from a tech POV, and they make more sense in China where electricity is cheap and charging abundant.

And now lots of people have one, in the UK at least, the price of electricity shot up. 

A bit like when they said diesel was the thing to have, everyone bought one, then they put the price of that up.

Give me a V8 that runs on any kind of nice, organic petrol or diesel.

[andrewfi]

Yes, it is moving some of the pollution - that element of the power supplied from zero-emissions sources becomes a net benefit compared to burning dino juice.

So, do you prefer to breathe the exhaust emissions of cars directly from the exhaust pipe or would you prefer a vastly diluted version where the power plant has been used to reduce the emissions to the environment and the volume of air dilutes the rest?

If you believe that breathing exhaust fumes is a healthy choice, then you are correct.
In addition, we are in a transition phase where fossil fuel use for primary power generation is decreasing to a much lower level. Over the life of any modern EV purchased today, the mix of fossil fuels, renewables, and zero-emission will change for the better.

We benefit today and will benefit more in the future.

Right now, EVs comprise just 2.8% of all cars on the road, and, of course, the total number of cars in the global fleet is growing. So, each year there are more ICE cars on the road in the global fleet of automobiles. That means there will be no detectable difference in air quality overall at this time!

Right now, globally, EVs comprise about 23% of new car sales. At some point, there will be enough EVs on the road that air quality will be improved by them—this is a journey from A to B. That will happen when the net number of ICE cars in the global fleet starts falling. Of coruse, in some areas that will already be happening.

Improvements in air quality within the ULEZ area of London will, in part, be due to the changing mix of vehicles on the road in London.
https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/environment-and-climate-change/pollution-and-air-quality/ultra-low-emission-zone-ulez-london

One reason I keep mentioning new EVs sold today is that the lifetime pollution due to manufacturing has decreased. A study by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) found that battery electric vehicles registered today have significantly lower life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions compared to older models.

Results show that even for cars registered today, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) have by far the lowest life-cycle GHG emissions. As illustrated in the figure below, emissions over the lifetime of average medium-size BEVs registered today are already lower than comparable gasoline cars by 66%–69% in Europe, 60%–68% in the United States, 37%–45% in China, and 19%–34% in India. Additionally, as the electricity mix continues to decarbonize, the life-cycle emissions gap between BEVs and gasoline vehicles increases substantially when considering medium-size cars projected to be registered in 2030.

https://theicct.org/publication/a-global-comparison-of-the-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-combustion-engine-and-electric-passenger-cars/

[2tallbill]

IMHO, blasting EVs for not being fully green is a canard.

Having a few electric cars as second cars to make people feel good or
superior to everyone else is fine. Nobody is against that. Pretending
that it could be anything resembling a solution is fluffy clouds, unicorns
and magic beans.

The massive infrastructure needed to make the electricity needed for EV's
doesn't exist. The left makes it nearly impossible to build powerplants
and those people are completely and totally unreasonable and you can't
talk to them for 5 minutes before they start talking wistfully about things
that don't exist*

The nutjob left in our most populous state has mandated an internal
combustion engine ban.



* Silly things like cold fusion, or worse hot fusion, hydrogen from water,
human feces powerplants, perpetual motion from magnets and on and on.

[Faux Pas]

Yes, it is moving some of the pollution - that element of the power supplied from zero-emissions sources becomes a net benefit compared to burning dino juice.

So, do you prefer to breathe the exhaust emissions of cars directly from the exhaust pipe or would you prefer a vastly diluted version where the power plant has been used to reduce the emissions to the environment and the volume of air dilutes the rest?

If you believe that breathing exhaust fumes is a healthy choice, then you are correct.
In addition, we are in a transition phase where fossil fuel use for primary power generation is decreasing to a much lower level. Over the life of any modern EV purchased today, the mix of fossil fuels, renewables, and zero-emission will change for the better.

We benefit today and will benefit more in the future.

Right now, EVs comprise just 2.8% of all cars on the road, and, of course, the total number of cars in the global fleet is growing. So, each year there are more ICE cars on the road in the global fleet of automobiles. That means there will be no detectable difference in air quality overall at this time!

Right now, globally, EVs comprise about 23% of new car sales. At some point, there will be enough EVs on the road that air quality will be improved by them—this is a journey from A to B. That will happen when the net number of ICE cars in the global fleet starts falling. Of coruse, in some areas that will already be happening.

Improvements in air quality within the ULEZ area of London will, in part, be due to the changing mix of vehicles on the road in London.
https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/environment-and-climate-change/pollution-and-air-quality/ultra-low-emission-zone-ulez-london

One reason I keep mentioning new EVs sold today is that the lifetime pollution due to manufacturing has decreased. A study by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) found that battery electric vehicles registered today have significantly lower life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions compared to older models.

Results show that even for cars registered today, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) have by far the lowest life-cycle GHG emissions. As illustrated in the figure below, emissions over the lifetime of average medium-size BEVs registered today are already lower than comparable gasoline cars by 66%–69% in Europe, 60%–68% in the United States, 37%–45% in China, and 19%–34% in India. Additionally, as the electricity mix continues to decarbonize, the life-cycle emissions gap between BEVs and gasoline vehicles increases substantially when considering medium-size cars projected to be registered in 2030.

https://theicct.org/publication/a-global-comparison-of-the-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-combustion-engine-and-electric-passenger-cars/

You are a prime example of why it is so difficult to have a rational discussion with those brainwashed with the topic of global warming and definition of green energy. It's highly unlikely you will ever actually see the forest before the trees but, I will attempt to help you.

The dino juice to which you refer is the only energy source we currently have that actually has in place infrastructure and technology to support our thirst for mobility. You can play pretend that it is not the case but, that doesn't make it any less so. Your usual handlers who spoon feed you this false information are letting you down.

It does make a small bit of difference as to whether you suck the fumes right out of your car's tailpipes opposed to waiting on it to waft from a few miles down the road back  your house, that's true. Is that really better when you figure in the toxicity of mining Lithium and the other poisonous carcinogens required to make those fuel cells. Worst likely is when those batteries spontaneously combust and have to burn out because they cannot be extinguished. With your thinking no worries, those carcinogens just float down and give the neighbors cancer but I can keep my warm and fuzzy because I drive an EV and trust climate change.

Fi I find you very puzzling. You do often post a lot of very good intellectual reasoning but, then on certain subjects of narrative fed to you and the masses you display total programming. It's like your eyes gloss over, you lose all sense of reasoning and continually repeat psychobabble like you have here. When you and your ilk can regain a shred of common sense and admit EVs and green energy is a failure as it stands today only then, can we move forward with steps to actually save the planet

[Bodine]

Having a few electric cars as second cars to make people feel good or
superior to everyone else is fine. Nobody is against that. Pretending
that it could be anything resembling a solution is fluffy clouds, unicorns
and magic beans.

In a nutshell, not really sure what the raucous is all about.

Me, a car is not and never has been a lifelong commitment. It's a tool for convenience. I'm a child of cassette tapes, had my phonograph and still have my collection of licorice pizzas, which now that the ol' turntable are back in the market again - maybe even a trend, I can enjoy that sound once more.

I've never been the 'pick-up' kind'a guy. I never figured out, nor was interested in knowing, what the fascination with a lot of men about pick-up trucks - especially in an urban environment like LA. But hey, to each his own. I never had any interest in muscle cars either the way a lot guys seem to not be able to live without it. Just as many guys with their Harleys...

For me today, I love the gift of techno, and EVs do it for me (us). Why not. It's not about going green, not about riding in style. LA is not the place for that anyway since it seems 3 out of 5 cars on the streets of LA is an EV. EVs for me is just a different form of vehicle to take me from A-B, maybe C, then D. I like the bells and whistle appointment on these cars. Love the non-combustion quick acceleration. Not having to stop to gas-up. No more oil change, tune-ups, etc...Just a myriad of personal reasons and preference. It's like that teenage fascination I use to have about someday 'owning a Jeep' - and then doing it. For me EVs are just fun to drive around.

For now until Elon markets a hovercraft.

[Contrarian]

 

I agree that the problem with EV's in the USA has always been that
1. Nobody wants them
2. We don't have the infrastructure for them, neither the charging stations
nor the grid band width.
 

...but people DO want them.  Our household has had a Tesla for around 6 years now...it has been great.  Charging not really a problem although mildly inconvenient especially when using chains in the mountains, it needs charging quickly...or on a super-hot Vegas dash across the desert...but in normal circumstances it is really nice. 

Yes it was fairly expensive at the time... I read that Tesla has a recycling program for used batteries.   

I support people getting to choose...I need a big strong truck, but other members of the household can flitter around in their little electric vehicles and they do just fine. 

Jonas!

If we stick to the premise of supply and demand I say fine, let those who want those over priced sleds have them. May the infrastructure for them work the same way. Obama and then Bidan attempted to legislate them into ownership. Literally forcing folks to buy them. First subsidizing them then, mandating in the future that only EVs will be sold. Completely ignoring the fact that we do not have the technology (in them) to be a true green energy. That being that anytime during the life of the vehicle it needs to connect to the grid, it's not green energy.

I've always had a gas powered truck 4x4 because I not only need it, I want it. We did for a few years have a Hybrid in the household and I loved the efficiency of it. But, when the mileage started to climb, so did the problems and the expense of keeping it up. It just wasn't worth the expense or aggravation of it.

 

Seems to me this conversation is happening because the previous administration wanted to simply outlaw internal combustion vehicles and make electric vehicles mandatory. Thankfully Trump has brought common sense back to this nation and that's not going to happen.

As far as the "clean energy" or "green energy" argument goes, no doubt that EV are simply not there, yet.

The batteries are dangerous and if they go bad very expensive to replace, as noted above. And apparently they are toxic and must be buried deep underground after they go out.

So thankfully they are only an option for those who want them. The rest of us can still purchase a regular vehicle.

[2tallbill]

...but people DO want them. 

I support people getting to choose...I need a big strong truck, but other members of the household can flitter around in their little electric vehicles and they do just fine. 

Jonas!

Of course a segment of the population wants one, but not the majority or even
close. I too support people getting to choose.