NYP: Zelensky willing to cede territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protectio

[B.B.]

Brilliant move by Ze.  He (correctly) understands that the war cannot end without meaningful security guarantees for Ukraine, and that means NATO.  He also softened it a bit to not include full membership (which Putin doesn't get a veto over), and took everything else off the table.

Trump wants the war over, and Ze is taking a "1-condition" position that is eminently reasonable, but which he knows Putin will choke on.

Trump is likely to side with the party willing to deal the most and Ze just gave him what looks like a very reasonable offer. 

I (and, no doubt, Ze) fully expect Putin to refuse it, and that may well lead to Trump arming the Ukrainians to the teeth.

Putin would be well-advised to accept; this is basically a "best case" for him.

B/B

Zelensky willing to cede territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection — in stark departure from previous stance

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is willing to hand over territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection if it means ending the war.

“If we want to stop the hot stage of the war, we should take under [the] NATO umbrella the territory of Ukraine that we have under our control,” Zelensky said through a translator in an interview with Sky News Friday.

“That’s what we need to do fast, and then Ukraine can get back the other part of its territory diplomatically.”

Zelensky’s comments are a stark departure from his previous stance — he vowed to continue fighting until Ukraine was returned to its internationally recognized borders, including Crimea.

In 2022, Putin annexed four regions in Ukraine — Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia — calling them “our citizens forever” in a move that was denounced by Western leaders.

Zelensky hinted that the “NATO umbrella” would not be full membership — something Putin has long vehemently rejected — but could mean member states providing individual security guarantees to Ukraine.

Zelensky wouldn’t say whether he’d be willing to give up more territory in exchange for full NATO membership.

“No one has offered us to be in NATO with just one part or another part of Ukraine,” he said. He added, “[it] could be possible, but no one offered.”

He said other countries have offered to broker a cease-fire agreement between the two countries but he seemed skeptical, saying it must guarantee “Putin will not come back.”

“We need [NATO protection] very much, otherwise [Putin] will come back,” he said. “Otherwise, how are we going to go to a ceasefire? So for us, it’s very dangerous.”

President-elect Donald Trump has vowed to end Russia’s war with Ukraine — which both Putin and Zelensky said they welcomed.

Zelensky’s comments come just a week after a marked shift in the 1,000-day war — when Ukraine fired eight American-supplied longer-range missiles into Russia, several of which struck an ammunition supply location.

“All our partners always look for permission from the United States,” Zelensky told Fox News last week. “If the United States doesn’t give it, Europe will not give.”

Russia retaliated by launching new experimental, hypersonic ballistic missiles on the battlefield, a move that has allowed the Kremlin to advance deeper into Ukraine — prompting NATO officials to host emergency talks this week.

Putin, who has boosted his dwindling troops with an estimated 11,000 North Korean soldiers, has also threatened to strike Ukraine’s “decision-making centers” in retaliation.

The Kremlin has made huge advances in Ukraine over the past week, taking 90 square miles in the long-bombarded Donetsk region, the fastest clip since the war began nearly three years ago.

Putin had previously claimed the only path to peace would be for Ukraine to surrender all its territory that Russia has laid claim to and renounce its intention to join NATO.

[WestCoast]

Brilliant move by Ze.  He (correctly) understands that the war cannot end without meaningful security guarantees for Ukraine, and that means NATO.  He also softened it a bit to not include full membership (which Putin doesn't get a veto over), and took everything else off the table.

Trump wants the war over, and Ze is taking a "1-condition" position that is eminently reasonable, but which he knows Putin will choke on.

Trump is likely to side with the party willing to deal the most and Ze just gave him what looks like a very reasonable offer. 

I (and, no doubt, Ze) fully expect Putin to refuse it, and that may well lead to Trump arming the Ukrainians to the teeth.

Putin would be well-advised to accept; this is basically a "best case" for him.

B/B

Zelensky willing to cede territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection — in stark departure from previous stance

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is willing to hand over territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection if it means ending the war.

“If we want to stop the hot stage of the war, we should take under [the] NATO umbrella the territory of Ukraine that we have under our control,” Zelensky said through a translator in an interview with Sky News Friday.

“That’s what we need to do fast, and then Ukraine can get back the other part of its territory diplomatically.”

Zelensky’s comments are a stark departure from his previous stance — he vowed to continue fighting until Ukraine was returned to its internationally recognized borders, including Crimea.

In 2022, Putin annexed four regions in Ukraine — Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia — calling them “our citizens forever” in a move that was denounced by Western leaders.

Zelensky hinted that the “NATO umbrella” would not be full membership — something Putin has long vehemently rejected — but could mean member states providing individual security guarantees to Ukraine.

Zelensky wouldn’t say whether he’d be willing to give up more territory in exchange for full NATO membership.

“No one has offered us to be in NATO with just one part or another part of Ukraine,” he said. He added, “[it] could be possible, but no one offered.”

He said other countries have offered to broker a cease-fire agreement between the two countries but he seemed skeptical, saying it must guarantee “Putin will not come back.”

“We need [NATO protection] very much, otherwise [Putin] will come back,” he said. “Otherwise, how are we going to go to a ceasefire? So for us, it’s very dangerous.”

President-elect Donald Trump has vowed to end Russia’s war with Ukraine — which both Putin and Zelensky said they welcomed.

Zelensky’s comments come just a week after a marked shift in the 1,000-day war — when Ukraine fired eight American-supplied longer-range missiles into Russia, several of which struck an ammunition supply location.

“All our partners always look for permission from the United States,” Zelensky told Fox News last week. “If the United States doesn’t give it, Europe will not give.”

Russia retaliated by launching new experimental, hypersonic ballistic missiles on the battlefield, a move that has allowed the Kremlin to advance deeper into Ukraine — prompting NATO officials to host emergency talks this week.

Putin, who has boosted his dwindling troops with an estimated 11,000 North Korean soldiers, has also threatened to strike Ukraine’s “decision-making centers” in retaliation.

The Kremlin has made huge advances in Ukraine over the past week, taking 90 square miles in the long-bombarded Donetsk region, the fastest clip since the war began nearly three years ago.

Putin had previously claimed the only path to peace would be for Ukraine to surrender all its territory that Russia has laid claim to and renounce its intention to join NATO.

If Ukraine is still occupying Russian land Putin will never surrender that land. Ukraine will have to also give up all Russian territory it occupies.

[Contrarian]

Brilliant move by Ze.  He (correctly) understands that the war cannot end without meaningful security guarantees for Ukraine, and that means NATO.  He also softened it a bit to not include full membership (which Putin doesn't get a veto over), and took everything else off the table.

Trump wants the war over, and Ze is taking a "1-condition" position that is eminently reasonable, but which he knows Putin will choke on.

Trump is likely to side with the party willing to deal the most and Ze just gave him what looks like a very reasonable offer. 

I (and, no doubt, Ze) fully expect Putin to refuse it, and that may well lead to Trump arming the Ukrainians to the teeth.

Putin would be well-advised to accept; this is basically a "best case" for him.

B/B

Zelensky willing to cede territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection — in stark departure from previous stance

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is willing to hand over territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection if it means ending the war.

“If we want to stop the hot stage of the war, we should take under [the] NATO umbrella the territory of Ukraine that we have under our control,” Zelensky said through a translator in an interview with Sky News Friday.

“That’s what we need to do fast, and then Ukraine can get back the other part of its territory diplomatically.”

Zelensky’s comments are a stark departure from his previous stance — he vowed to continue fighting until Ukraine was returned to its internationally recognized borders, including Crimea.

In 2022, Putin annexed four regions in Ukraine — Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia — calling them “our citizens forever” in a move that was denounced by Western leaders.

Zelensky hinted that the “NATO umbrella” would not be full membership — something Putin has long vehemently rejected — but could mean member states providing individual security guarantees to Ukraine.

Zelensky wouldn’t say whether he’d be willing to give up more territory in exchange for full NATO membership.

“No one has offered us to be in NATO with just one part or another part of Ukraine,” he said. He added, “[it] could be possible, but no one offered.”

He said other countries have offered to broker a cease-fire agreement between the two countries but he seemed skeptical, saying it must guarantee “Putin will not come back.”

“We need [NATO protection] very much, otherwise [Putin] will come back,” he said. “Otherwise, how are we going to go to a ceasefire? So for us, it’s very dangerous.”

President-elect Donald Trump has vowed to end Russia’s war with Ukraine — which both Putin and Zelensky said they welcomed.

Zelensky’s comments come just a week after a marked shift in the 1,000-day war — when Ukraine fired eight American-supplied longer-range missiles into Russia, several of which struck an ammunition supply location.

“All our partners always look for permission from the United States,” Zelensky told Fox News last week. “If the United States doesn’t give it, Europe will not give.”

Russia retaliated by launching new experimental, hypersonic ballistic missiles on the battlefield, a move that has allowed the Kremlin to advance deeper into Ukraine — prompting NATO officials to host emergency talks this week.

Putin, who has boosted his dwindling troops with an estimated 11,000 North Korean soldiers, has also threatened to strike Ukraine’s “decision-making centers” in retaliation.

The Kremlin has made huge advances in Ukraine over the past week, taking 90 square miles in the long-bombarded Donetsk region, the fastest clip since the war began nearly three years ago.

Putin had previously claimed the only path to peace would be for Ukraine to surrender all its territory that Russia has laid claim to and renounce its intention to join NATO.

Why would any sane leader of Russia agree to having the North American Terrorist Organization at their door step? Not going to happen. Expect Kiev to get a nice surprise soon.

https://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-surprise-of-hazel/

[AvHdB]

Why would any sane leader of Russia agree to having the North American Terrorist Organization at their door step? Not going to happen. Expect Kiev to get a nice surprise soon.

As I suspected and feared based on the above one can infer that there those (for different reasons) who are content to see this war continue. But they are for the greater part LV posters.

Using common sense, thinking and being reasonable are skills some never learned in 3rd grade.

One thing I did observe on this trip is that the Ukrainians I met and spoke with will never forget what occurred, worse though based on my interactions with Slavs forgiving is not a skill set they command.

[Contrarian]

Why would any sane leader of Russia agree to having the North American Terrorist Organization at their door step? Not going to happen. Expect Kiev to get a nice surprise soon.

As I suspected and feared based on the above one can infer that there those (for different reasons) who are content to see this war continue. But they are for the greater part LV posters.

Using common sense, thinking and being reasonable are skills some never learned in 3rd grade.

One thing I did observe on this trip is that the Ukrainians I met and spoke with will never forget what occurred, worse though based on my interactions with Slavs forgiving is not a skill set they command.

Not sure what LV is. One thing is for sure, if you and others had wanted peace you would be angry that Boris Johnson screwed it up.

"Using common sense, thinking and being reasonable are skills some never learned in 3rd grade".

No doubt, you must have just looked in the mirror, if you think Russia is going to allow any form of NATO to sit there on their doorstep.

You have an amazing inability to put yourself into the shoes of others, and think what it would be like, to live in a large peaceful country, not wanting war mongers and war profiteers to be right on your border, with all sorts of weapons, possibly including nukes, pointed at all your large cities.

In fact when one thinks of all the regime changes committed such as Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and attempts in Syria, it's a no brainer. At least for those who learned the Golden Rule.

[B.B.]

If Ukraine is still occupying Russian land Putin will never surrender that land. Ukraine will have to also give up all Russian territory it occupies.

I do not disagree.  Nor should Putin, assuming you are talking about Kursk.

Why would any sane leader of Russia agree to having the North American Terrorist Organization at their door step? Not going to happen. Expect Kiev to get a nice surprise soon.

First, the leader of Russia does not get to veto who NATO admits or does not. 

Second, the leader of Russia already HAS NATO on his doorstep, because of his own, foolish bellicosity, has DOUBLED the size of NATO's border with Russia.  Furthermore, Warsaw is about 3/4th of the distance to Moscow as Kiev is, so this isn't about the proximity of NATO it's about Russia's hurt feelings.

Third, the leader of Russia is not the "decider" here; Trump is.  If Russia does not want to cooperate, then Trump may well give Ukraine everything they want and remove any restrictions on how to use it.

One thing I did observe on this trip is that the Ukrainians I met and spoke with will never forget what occurred, worse though based on my interactions with Slavs forgiving is not a skill set they command.[/size][/font]

Putin is forging a Ukrainian identity, one that is very anti-Russian.  Why would the forget his actions?  Poland was partitioned 4 times and yet the Polish national identity never dimmed.

B/B

[Contrarian]

If Ukraine is still occupying Russian land Putin will never surrender that land. Ukraine will have to also give up all Russian territory it occupies.

I do not disagree.  Nor should Putin, assuming you are talking about Kursk.

Why would any sane leader of Russia agree to having the North American Terrorist Organization at their door step? Not going to happen. Expect Kiev to get a nice surprise soon.

First, the leader of Russia does not get to veto who NATO admits or does not. 

Second, the leader of Russia already HAS NATO on his doorstep, because of his own, foolish bellicosity, has DOUBLED the size of NATO's border with Russia.  Furthermore, Warsaw is about 3/4th of the distance to Moscow as Kiev is, so this isn't about the proximity of NATO it's about Russia's hurt feelings.

Third, the leader of Russia is not the "decider" here; Trump is.  If Russia does not want to cooperate, then Trump may well give Ukraine everything they want and remove any restrictions on how to use it.

One thing I did observe on this trip is that the Ukrainians I met and spoke with will never forget what occurred, worse though based on my interactions with Slavs forgiving is not a skill set they command.[/size][/font]

Putin is forging a Ukrainian identity, one that is very anti-Russian.  Why would the forget his actions?  Poland was partitioned 4 times and yet the Polish national identity never dimmed.

B/B

If Ukraine is so eager to continue as a vassal state of the USA and the UK, I wonder why so many draft eligible men are giving a big F you to Zelensky?

It's only a matter of time, until more and more Ukrainians wake up to the fact that it was the West who phocked them, not Russia. 



Gleeful Graham: Ukraine war all "about money". 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/lindsey-graham-ukrain

[Markje]

First, the leader of Russia does not get to veto who NATO admits or does not. 

B/B

The amount of death and destruction being unleashed upon Ukraine suggests that Russia can and will veto that.

Any sane leader would recognise that. Sadly the world seems bereft of sane leaders nowadays. Here in Europe its not much better. Luckily some of the more notable war-hawks have died of old age now.

[B.B.]

If Ukraine is so eager to continue as a vassal state of the USA and the UK, I wonder why so many draft eligible men are giving a big F you to Zelensky?

I promise you, I know more Ukrainians than you do.  Have you ever even BEEN to Ukr?  And yet here you are, armchair expert.  N.B. I've been twice SINCE the war started.  And many times before that.

It's only a matter of time, until more and more Ukrainians wake up to the fact that it was the West who phocked them, not Russia. 

I wouldn't hold my breath.

B/B

[B.B.]

The amount of death and destruction being unleashed upon Ukraine suggests that Russia can and will veto that.

No, that shows you the depth and obstinacy of Russian nationalism.  Putin knows he CANNOT attack a NATO state without signing his own death warrant.  Lithuania, in one of the greatest Fck Yous of all time, renamed the street that the Russian embassy is on the "Avenue of Ukrainian Heroes." 

Any sane leader would recognise that. Sadly the world seems bereft of sane leaders nowadays. Here in Europe its not much better. Luckily some of the more notable war-hawks have died of old age now.

Nah, a sane Russian leader would not carry on the Russian tradition of genociding its neighbors, but they are stuck in the 19th Century.

Putin will ultimately dance to Trump's tune, or Trump will go all in on supporting Ukraine.  Simple as.  Thus the brilliance of Ze's maneuver.

B/B

[WestCoast]

If Ukraine is so eager to continue as a vassal state of the USA and the UK, I wonder why so many draft eligible men are giving a big F you to Zelensky?

It's only a matter of time, until more and more Ukrainians wake up to the fact that it was the West who phocked them, not Russia. 

The Ukrainians have a choice be a vassal state of the USA and UK and maybe get to join the EU and eventually NATO or be a vassal state of Russia and be forever screwed by Moscow.

Lots of Russians left Russia. I guess they figured they were being screwed by Putin.
 

[2tallbill]

Putin will ultimately dance to Trump's tune, or Trump will go all in on supporting Ukraine.  Simple as.  Thus the brilliance of Ze's maneuver.

B/B

Team Biden, did the too little too late trickle of arms and munitions which
has ground troops on both sides to hamburger. It's sick, it's demented.

Everyone knows this is what team Biden did. This is the exact same as the
Afghan pullout. Nobody on the world stage believes that Team Trump will
half ass support Ukraine just giving them enough to fail repeatedly.

The Airforce has 817 F-16's we don't need them anymore. He could transfer
all 817 of them to Poland with full modern bombs and missiles. He could
do this publicly or very quietly, either way team Russia would know all
about it.

Trump just needs a little leverage to get both sides to desire peace. Putin
needs something to claim victory and the Ukrainians need to know that
this isn't going to be restarted +5 years from now. This is something
everyone needs.

Putin could look very magnanimous if he spun it right, saying Ukrainians are
our brothers, I never wanted to do this, the Nazi's are finally all dead, blah,
blah. Who is going to say............ but Putin that is not enough, you could
have had more? Nobody on the Russian side. Millions of young Russian boys
and their mothers will sigh in relief.   

[Contrarian]

Brilliant move by Ze.  He (correctly) understands that the war cannot end without meaningful security guarantees for Ukraine, and that means NATO.  He also softened it a bit to not include full membership (which Putin doesn't get a veto over), and took everything else off the table.

Trump wants the war over, and Ze is taking a "1-condition" position that is eminently reasonable, but which he knows Putin will choke on.

Trump is likely to side with the party willing to deal the most and Ze just gave him what looks like a very reasonable offer. 

I (and, no doubt, Ze) fully expect Putin to refuse it, and that may well lead to Trump arming the Ukrainians to the teeth.

Putin would be well-advised to accept; this is basically a "best case" for him.

B/B

Zelensky willing to cede territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection — in stark departure from previous stance

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is willing to hand over territory to Russia in exchange for NATO protection if it means ending the war.

“If we want to stop the hot stage of the war, we should take under [the] NATO umbrella the territory of Ukraine that we have under our control,” Zelensky said through a translator in an interview with Sky News Friday.

“That’s what we need to do fast, and then Ukraine can get back the other part of its territory diplomatically.”

Zelensky’s comments are a stark departure from his previous stance — he vowed to continue fighting until Ukraine was returned to its internationally recognized borders, including Crimea.

In 2022, Putin annexed four regions in Ukraine — Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia — calling them “our citizens forever” in a move that was denounced by Western leaders.

Zelensky hinted that the “NATO umbrella” would not be full membership — something Putin has long vehemently rejected — but could mean member states providing individual security guarantees to Ukraine.

Zelensky wouldn’t say whether he’d be willing to give up more territory in exchange for full NATO membership.

“No one has offered us to be in NATO with just one part or another part of Ukraine,” he said. He added, “[it] could be possible, but no one offered.”

He said other countries have offered to broker a cease-fire agreement between the two countries but he seemed skeptical, saying it must guarantee “Putin will not come back.”

“We need [NATO protection] very much, otherwise [Putin] will come back,” he said. “Otherwise, how are we going to go to a ceasefire? So for us, it’s very dangerous.”

President-elect Donald Trump has vowed to end Russia’s war with Ukraine — which both Putin and Zelensky said they welcomed.

Zelensky’s comments come just a week after a marked shift in the 1,000-day war — when Ukraine fired eight American-supplied longer-range missiles into Russia, several of which struck an ammunition supply location.

“All our partners always look for permission from the United States,” Zelensky told Fox News last week. “If the United States doesn’t give it, Europe will not give.”

Russia retaliated by launching new experimental, hypersonic ballistic missiles on the battlefield, a move that has allowed the Kremlin to advance deeper into Ukraine — prompting NATO officials to host emergency talks this week.

Putin, who has boosted his dwindling troops with an estimated 11,000 North Korean soldiers, has also threatened to strike Ukraine’s “decision-making centers” in retaliation.

The Kremlin has made huge advances in Ukraine over the past week, taking 90 square miles in the long-bombarded Donetsk region, the fastest clip since the war began nearly three years ago.

Putin had previously claimed the only path to peace would be for Ukraine to surrender all its territory that Russia has laid claim to and renounce its intention to join NATO.

I have read from more than one source, that General Kellogg's plan keeps membership in NATO, off the table. As has been noted, Putin wouldn't go for that.

Thankfully Trump has hired a pragmatic General, who wants peace and has a realistic plan.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-eyes-retired-general-keith-kellogg-ukraine-envoy-sources-say-2024-11-27/

[WestCoast]

Putin will ultimately dance to Trump's tune, or Trump will go all in on supporting Ukraine.  Simple as.  Thus the brilliance of Ze's maneuver.

B/B

Team Biden, did the too little too late trickle of arms and munitions which
has ground troops on both sides to hamburger. It's sick, it's demented.

Everyone knows this is what team Biden did. This is the exact same as the
Afghan pullout. Nobody on the world stage believes that Team Trump will
half ass support Ukraine just giving them enough to fail repeatedly.

The Airforce has 817 F-16's we don't need them anymore. He could transfer
all 817 of them to Poland with full modern bombs and missiles. He could
do this publicly or very quietly, either way team Russia would know all
about it.

Trump just needs a little leverage to get both sides to desire peace. Putin
needs something to claim victory and the Ukrainians need to know that
this isn't going to be restarted +5 years from now. This is something
everyone needs.

Putin could look very magnanimous if he spun it right, saying Ukrainians are
our brothers, I never wanted to do this, the Nazi's are finally all dead, blah,
blah. Who is going to say............ but Putin that is not enough, you could
have had more? Nobody on the Russian side. Millions of young Russian boys
and their mothers will sigh in relief.   

Putin might honor a peace deal for years till Trump is out of office. I'm sure part of any peace deal with Putin is the removal of most if not all sanctions. With the money flowing in again and no war he will have the military go all out producing modern weapons and ammo. Rebuild Crimea to protect it. Dig in even more in the Donbas.  Rebuild the Kerch bridge. IOW do everything to prepare for a renewed attempt to takeover Ukraine. Putin really wants Ukraine, all of Ukraine. He is now probably more pissed than ever that he has been denied again.

[2tallbill]

I have read from more than one source, that General Kellogg's plan keeps membership in NATO, off the table. As has been noted, Putin wouldn't go
for that.

Thankfully Trump has hired a pragmatic General, who wants peace and has a realistic plan.

I doubt that any plans have been leaked. The reason that Team Trump isn't
meeting in Government buildings is to prevent the swamp from f#cking it all
up. The media are all essentially echo chambers sitting around guessing/making crap up then attributing it to unnamed sources. Whatever you or I can read in
the news should be given a heavy dose of skepticism.

[Contrarian]

Putin will ultimately dance to Trump's tune, or Trump will go all in on supporting Ukraine.  Simple as.  Thus the brilliance of Ze's maneuver.

B/B

Team Biden, did the too little too late trickle of arms and munitions which
has ground troops on both sides to hamburger. It's sick, it's demented.

Everyone knows this is what team Biden did. This is the exact same as the
Afghan pullout. Nobody on the world stage believes that Team Trump will
half ass support Ukraine just giving them enough to fail repeatedly.

The Airforce has 817 F-16's we don't need them anymore. He could transfer
all 817 of them to Poland with full modern bombs and missiles. He could
do this publicly or very quietly, either way team Russia would know all
about it.

Trump just needs a little leverage to get both sides to desire peace. Putin
needs something to claim victory and the Ukrainians need to know that
this isn't going to be restarted +5 years from now. This is something
everyone needs.

Putin could look very magnanimous if he spun it right, saying Ukrainians are
our brothers, I never wanted to do this, the Nazi's are finally all dead, blah,
blah. Who is going to say............ but Putin that is not enough, you could
have had more? Nobody on the Russian side. Millions of young Russian boys
and their mothers will sigh in relief.   

Putin might honor a peace deal for years till Trump is out of office. I'm sure part of any peace deal with Putin is the removal of most if not all sanctions. With the money flowing in again and no war he will have the military go all out producing modern weapons and ammo. Rebuild Crimea to protect it. Dig in even more in the Donbas.  Rebuild the Kerch bridge. IOW do everything to prepare for a renewed attempt to takeover Ukraine. Putin really wants Ukraine, all of Ukraine. He is now probably more pissed than ever that he has been denied again.

More naive nonsense from Waste coast. Putin has said numerous times he does not want all of Ukraine. Why would a sane rational leader want to rule over half of a nation which does not like him and is a failed nation? He does not. He only wants the Russian speaking portions, and a buffer zone.

He wants the crazies in Kiev disarmed, so they cannot shoot missiles into the Donbas and anywhere else, killing ethnic Russians anymore. It's not rocket science, for the grown ups who can read.

Waste coast just repeating more hyped up propaganda for lemmings like himself. 

[2tallbill]

My opinion,

Nobody knows what Trump or Putin will do, I want to believe that they will
both behave rationally. This war is not benefiting anyone. Putin is going to
be loved by Russians and hated by Western journalists no matter what he
does. He might as well stop spending hundreds of billions for the war and
save thousands of Russian lives

[WestCoast]

Putin might honor a peace deal for years till Trump is out of office. I'm sure part of any peace deal with Putin is the removal of most if not all sanctions. With the money flowing in again and no war he will have the military go all out producing modern weapons and ammo. Rebuild Crimea to protect it. Dig in even more in the Donbas.  Rebuild the Kerch bridge. IOW do everything to prepare for a renewed attempt to takeover Ukraine. Putin really wants Ukraine, all of Ukraine. He is now probably more pissed than ever that he has been denied again.

More naive nonsense from Waste coast. Putin has said numerous times he does not want all of Ukraine. Why would a sane rational leader want to rule over half of a nation which does not like him and is a failed nation? He does not. He only wants the Russian speaking portions, and a buffer zone.

He wants the crazies in Kiev disarmed, so they cannot shoot missiles into the Donbas and anywhere else, killing ethnic Russians anymore. It's not rocket science, for the grown ups who can read.

Waste coast just repeating more hyped up propaganda for lemmings like himself. 

You don't believe American or European politicians but Putin is the Oracle of truth? If Putin is so great why aren't you learning Russian readying for your move to Russia? Surely living in a country with a leader you trust and admire is better living in a country whose leadership you despise is a better life?

[Contrarian]

Putin might honor a peace deal for years till Trump is out of office. I'm sure part of any peace deal with Putin is the removal of most if not all sanctions. With the money flowing in again and no war he will have the military go all out producing modern weapons and ammo. Rebuild Crimea to protect it. Dig in even more in the Donbas.  Rebuild the Kerch bridge. IOW do everything to prepare for a renewed attempt to takeover Ukraine. Putin really wants Ukraine, all of Ukraine. He is now probably more pissed than ever that he has been denied again.

More naive nonsense from Waste coast. Putin has said numerous times he does not want all of Ukraine. Why would a sane rational leader want to rule over half of a nation which does not like him and is a failed nation? He does not. He only wants the Russian speaking portions, and a buffer zone.

He wants the crazies in Kiev disarmed, so they cannot shoot missiles into the Donbas and anywhere else, killing ethnic Russians anymore. It's not rocket science, for the grown ups who can read.

Waste coast just repeating more hyped up propaganda for lemmings like himself. 

You don't believe American or European politicians but Putin is the Oracle of truth? If Putin is so great why aren't you learning Russian readying for your move to Russia? Surely living in a country with a leader you trust and admire is better living in a country whose leadership you despise is a better life?

Why don't you move to China, with your chinese girlfiend? Is there some reason you wanted to import a chinese woman, rather than finding a good Canadian woman? Is she some sort of free loader like so many foreigners?

You are so stupid, you are confusing the fact that I can think for myself, with the idea that I trust and admire a foreign leader. I've posted the opinion of many western journalists, who like me, and unlike you, can think for themselves. Journalists like Col MacGregor, Scott Ritter, etc.

You cannot handle independent thinkers, so in your bizarro world, they must not like their country, and must like the leader of a foreign country better. Either you are stupid, which is highly likely, or you are playing a sick game. I would say probably both.

Also, there are American and European politicians who think like I do, there are just fewer of them, because so many of their colleagues take dirty money, for immoral reasons and to get along.

And like any good Patriot, I want to challenge my leaders to use their intellect and think about their actions, instead of taking dirty money from war mongers and war profiteers, just to get along.

Again, too bad you are so simple minded you cannot handle complex thought, or even think for yourself. Again, mostly all you do is repeat propaganda.

Waste coast, another wind up monkey, if there ever was one. 

[WestCoast]

Putin might honor a peace deal for years till Trump is out of office. I'm sure part of any peace deal with Putin is the removal of most if not all sanctions. With the money flowing in again and no war he will have the military go all out producing modern weapons and ammo. Rebuild Crimea to protect it. Dig in even more in the Donbas.  Rebuild the Kerch bridge. IOW do everything to prepare for a renewed attempt to takeover Ukraine. Putin really wants Ukraine, all of Ukraine. He is now probably more pissed than ever that he has been denied again.

More naive nonsense from Waste coast. Putin has said numerous times he does not want all of Ukraine. Why would a sane rational leader want to rule over half of a nation which does not like him and is a failed nation? He does not. He only wants the Russian speaking portions, and a buffer zone.

He wants the crazies in Kiev disarmed, so they cannot shoot missiles into the Donbas and anywhere else, killing ethnic Russians anymore. It's not rocket science, for the grown ups who can read.

Waste coast just repeating more hyped up propaganda for lemmings like himself. 

You don't believe American or European politicians but Putin is the Oracle of truth? If Putin is so great why aren't you learning Russian readying for your move to Russia? Surely living in a country with a leader you trust and admire is better living in a country whose leadership you despise is a better life?

Why don't you move to China, with your chinese girlfiend? Is there some reason you wanted to import a chinese woman, rather than finding a good Canadian woman? Is she some sort of free loader like so many foreigners?

You are so stupid, you are confusing the fact that I can think for myself, with the idea that I trust and admire a foreign leader. I've posted the opinion of many western journalists, who like me, and unlike you, can think for themselves. Journalists like Col MacGregor, Scott Ritter, etc.

You cannot handle independent thinkers, so in your bizarro world, they must not like their country, and must like the leader of a foreign country better. Either you are stupid, which is highly likely, or you are playing a sick game. I would say probably both.

Also, there are American and European politicians who think like I do, there are just fewer of them, because so many of their colleagues take dirty money, for immoral reasons and to get along.

And like any good Patriot, I want to challenge my leaders to use their intellect and think about their actions, instead of taking dirty money from war mongers and war profiteers, just to get along.

Again, too bad you are so simple minded you cannot handle complex thought, or even think for yourself. Again, mostly all you do is repeat propaganda.

Waste coast, another wind up monkey, if there ever was one. 

As I've mentioned here a number of times I've been to China quite a few times. IMO the CCP and its leader Xi Jinping are are authoritarian idiots and are running the country for the benefit of themselves and their friends. Also being white China is not a good country to make a living if you're white. IMO China is quite a racist country to anyone who is not Chinese.

Yes Justin Trudeau the PM of Canada is also a fool. Fortunately we have fair elections in Canada and hopefully Trudeau and the Liberal party will be out in or before October 2025.

In all the years I've posted on RUA I've never seen any RUA member who praised and supported Putin actually leave their country and move permanently to Russia. I wonder why?

[Contrarian]

Reading comprehension problems again?

I've already made it clear, as a Patriot, I want to improve my country. I have zero interest in moving anywhere. I love my country and want US tax dollars spent here. The number one way to begin this is to stop any and all support for overseas wars. I want that tax money spent here in the USA, on Americans. Defund Ukraine, defund Israel, defund any and all support to any country overseas, other than minimal help for humanitarian aid.

Stop trying to read something into what was said, which has not been said. You are an obnoxious waste of time. I am putting you on ignore. Rosco and others can deal with you, if they want to.

So China is racist, so what do you do? You find a chinese woman.   

[WestCoast]

Reading comprehension problems again?

I've already made it clear, as a Patriot, I want to improve my country. I have zero interest in moving anywhere. I love my country and want US tax dollars spent here. The number one way to begin this is to stop any and all support for overseas wars. I want that tax money spent here in the USA, on Americans. Defund Ukraine, defund Israel, defund any and all support to any country overseas, other than minimal help for humanitarian aid.

Stop trying to read something into what was said, which has not been said. You are an obnoxious waste of time. I am putting you on ignore. Rosco and others can deal with you, if they want to.

So China is racist, so what do you do? You find a chinese woman.   

The US government much like the Canadian and UK governments are going to spend the taxpayers' money on foreigners first. Protest all you like that's what's going to happen.

Actually it's not just China, most of Asia is racist against any outside groups. Asian countries are by their very nature very nationalistic and prefer their own people over foreigners.

I met the Chinese woman first then went to China.   

I take it as an honor when someone puts me on ignore. Thank you.

[Manny]

Brilliant move by Ze.........[/i]

It seems unlikely that Ze has suddenly started making decisions all by himself. Since the 2014 coup, decision making has been done from the US. He's just a front man.

What we are seeing is theatre where we can all pretend Ze is making some concessions, blah, blah. It's preparation for the surrender of land held by Russia now and a possible cessation of the SMO on terms the US and Russia can agree to.

As with tariffs discussed on another topic, we are seeing horse trading here in advance of Trump's arrival, so Trump can claim to have solved it in a few days. Its just being packaged up in a way the media can serve it up to the sheeple and keep previous narratives credible.

[Manny]

In all the years I've posted on RUA I've never seen any RUA member who praised and supported Putin actually leave their country and move permanently to Russia. I wonder why?

Apart from Sparky.

And Steve.

And all the other people referred to in the topic where you once got egg on your face on this very subject. 

[WestCoast]

In all the years I've posted on RUA I've never seen any RUA member who praised and supported Putin actually leave their country and move permanently to Russia. I wonder why?

Apart from Sparky.

And Steve.

And all the other people referred to in the topic where you once got egg on your face on this very subject. 

And I found a YT channel about a Canadian family of 10 that moved to Russia to pursue a better life. However the reality is far more Russians have moved to the west than westerners moved to Russia, especially given the war. In absolute terms maybe it is not true that some westerners even those on RUA won't move to Russia however the reality is Putin started a war and lost close to a million Russians to other countries.

Andy left Estonia. You're still in the UK. In your post about moving from the UK you ruled out Russia even though you're married to a Russian and are a big supporter of Putin's policies and war.