Is it safe to live in China

[Omega1982]

I understand that China, Russia and others are safe when it comes to violent crimes.  There's no problem walking the streets at night for you and your family.  However, the question is whether it is safe as a westerner, being British, American, Canadian, Australian, European?  I brought up this topic years ago and was assured there are no problems as long as you follow the law.  However recently we saw prisoner swaps between the west and the east and it makes you wonder where all these westerners really did break the law or not.  Any thoughts? 

[Markje]

I understand that China, Russia and others are safe when it comes to violent crimes.  There's no problem walking the streets at night for you and your family.  However, the question is whether it is safe as a westerner, being British, American, Canadian, Australian, European?  I brought up this topic years ago and was assured there are no problems as long as you follow the law.  However recently we saw prisoner swaps between the west and the east and it makes you wonder where all these westerners really did break the law or not.  Any thoughts?

Im thinking as long as you are an ordinary guy/girl that does not run afoul of the local laws. You should be fine. the prisoners that I doubt committed real crimes are all journalists or other professions that have a glancing topic with the powers-that-be. (Soldiers on vacation, Journalists, etc.)

I'm a highly skilled IT guy, my biggest problem would be them trying to recruit me activly to live in Russia voulentary.

[Manny]

There are trade fairs all year long all over China. Many people visit them.

There is a huge trade with Chinese companies and Western companies, which necessitates many visits there.

There's lots of expats live in China, especially in the PRD region, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc. But also in other big cities, Beijing, Shanghai, etc.

There are people who don't follow the law anywhere, and if they catch you, you will be locked up. As you would anywhere.

The only people I've ever noticed who had issues were the two Youtubers Winston Sterzel and Matthew somebody. They used to have a great YouTube channel on living in China, but it changed. Most think some agency in the US turned their head and started paying them. They became political, soon had their visas revoked and got kicked out. Now they spew anti-China hate from the US with fake Chinese green screens behind them. 

Go to somewhere like Dongguan, there's Italian restaurants, American steak houses, and all kinds of stuff set up to cater to the Westerners who live there. If it wasn't safe, nobody would choose to live there. If you start spouting loudly about politics online will you come unstuck quickly.

[andrewfi]

I was in Shanghai years ago, studying at Fudan University. I was going out all over the place, visiting businesses and factories and in the evenings
at bars and clubs. I and my roommate never felt threatened, scared or even worried.

We did interviewed by somebody, a very nice woman who was waiting for us as we entered a restaurant that we regularly visited. She was, we assumed, some form of police officer. She knew quite a bit about us but was interested in knowing more.

We were somewhat different to our student cohort, much more active and with more money - as well as being a little older than the other students. We had a fairly pleasant conversation and she insisted on paying for our meal and drinks.

These days, in the UK, if we were Chinese, with a similar profile, I'd expect that Special Branch would have a similar interest in us - but I doubt they'd buy our lunch while interviewing us.

[WestCoast]

There are trade fairs all year long all over China. Many people visit them.

There is a huge trade with Chinese companies and Western companies, which necessitates many visits there.

There's lots of expats live in China, especially in the PRD region, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc. But also in other big cities, Beijing, Shanghai, etc.

There are people who don't follow the law anywhere, and if they catch you, you will be locked up. As you would anywhere.

The only people I've ever noticed who had issues were the two Youtubers Winston Sterzel and Matthew somebody. They used to have a great YouTube channel on living in China, but it changed. Most think some agency in the US turned their head and started paying them. They became political, soon had their visas revoked and got kicked out. Now they spew anti-China hate from the US with fake Chinese green screens behind them. 

Go to somewhere like Dongguan, there's Italian restaurants, American steak houses, and all kinds of stuff set up to cater to the Westerners who live there. If it wasn't safe, nobody would choose to live there. If you start spouting loudly about politics online will you come unstuck quickly.

The Matthew you're referring to is probably Matthew Tye aka Laowhy86 online. I doubt the CIA or other US agency started paying them to lie about China.

China is going through hard times currently. Its economy is in trouble. If as Xi Jinping has been saying China invades Taiwan by 2027 China's economy will really suck badly.

[Omega1982]

What about Russia?

[2tallbill]

If you start spouting loudly about politics online will you come unstuck quickly.

I think that's true nearly everywhere. When abroad you should act as if
you are a guest, because that's what you are. Living abroad is different
than visiting abroad (in my opinion). 

[2tallbill]

The Matthew you're referring to is probably Matthew Tye aka Laowhy86 online. I doubt the CIA or other US agency started paying them to lie about China.

China is going through hard times currently. Its economy is in trouble. If as Xi Jinping has been saying China invades Taiwan by 2027 China's economy will really suck badly.

10's of millions of Chinese will die from starvation if China invades Taiwan.
How many of their top trade partners keep trading with them (except for
Hong Kong and Russia) China has saber rattled nearly every country below.


United States: US$502 billion (14.8% of China’s total exports)
Hong Kong: $276.4 billion (8.2%)
Japan: $157.6 billion (4.7%)
South Korea: $149.3 billion (4.4%)
Vietnam: $138.2 billion (4.1%)
India: $117.8 billion (3.5%)
Russia: $111.1 billion (3.3%)
Germany: $100.6 billion (3%)
Netherlands: $100.3 billion (3%)
Malaysia: $88.1 billion (2.6%)
Mexico: $81.5 billion (2.4%)
United Kingdom: $78.2 billion (2.3%)
Singapore: $77.6 billion (2.3%)
Thailand: $75.9 billion (2.2%)
Australia: $74 billion (2.2%)

https://www.worldstopexports.com/chinas-top-import-partners/

[Manny]

The Matthew you're referring to is probably Matthew Tye aka Laowhy86 online. I doubt the CIA or other US agency started paying them to lie about China.

Thats him. Watch his early stuff when he and Winston were travelling around on motorbikes. All good informative stuff.

Then watch it change, almost overnight. Then watch his hilarious "escape" which involved strolling through passport control into Hong Kong after making some fake footage pretending he was being chased, gasping in a park, it was pathetic.

Those two have big channels. I'd say there's a 99/100 chance they are now paid by Uncle Sam.

[andrewfi]

Yeah, my take was that 'somebody' had paid to turn his head. It wasnt like he was uncritical of Chinese matters but based on my knowledge and understanding he was pretty fair in his approach. The change was so sudden and complete that either he was being paid before and found a new paymaster who valued his channel's eyeballs higher or he was now being 'properly valued' for the first time.

[Manny]

I did point out that sequence of events on Twitter and they both blocked me. 

[andrewfi]

I did point out that sequence of events on Twitter and they both blocked me. 

Its not like they could discuss it in public, eh? But I'd be inclined to take such a response as confirmation. After all, while its tough to prove a negative, an open denial still would have carried some weight.

[WestCoast]

The Matthew you're referring to is probably Matthew Tye aka Laowhy86 online. I doubt the CIA or other US agency started paying them to lie about China.

Thats him. Watch his early stuff when he and Winston were travelling around on motorbikes. All good informative stuff.

Then watch it change, almost overnight. Then watch his hilarious "escape" which involved strolling through passport control into Hong Kong after making some fake footage pretending he was being chased, gasping in a park, it was pathetic.

Those two have big channels. I'd say there's a 99/100 chance they are now paid by Uncle Sam.

Manny why isn't China on your list of places to move to to escape the Islamification of Great Britain? You think it's a great place. Watch Peter Zeihan's videos on China and he says China is having financial problems. This means you could find workers in Shanghai for any business you planned to setup there. There'd probably be few issues finding supervisory and management staff who are fluent in English to deal with the local authorities and oversee the workers. Lots of expats in Shanghai so you'd probably be able to maintain a semblance of a British lifestyle.

Learning Chinese might pose a bit of a problem but if you started learning in GB you could continue in Shanghai. Lots of schools teaching foreigners Mandarin. You might even want to learn a bit of the Shanghainese language. Really shock the locals if you go out for dinner and order your meal in Shanghainese.

[Manny]

It's been a while since you’ve been around, Westy. I'm spending a significant amount of time in Hong Kong now. I’ve opened a company there and set up local phone numbers, banking, and everything else that comes with being in a place more frequently. There's a learning curve. I also hold a long-term multi-entry Chinese visa, allowing me to enter the mainland whenever I wish.

I am scouting around for locations, perhaps to snowbird in at first. We discussed this a bit on this topic. HK/China is likely as I'm familiar with both, as are the southern US, Portugal, and one or two other spots. It may be I don't settle on just one and float about a bit.

But the Islamification of the UK, while an issue, is less of an urgent threat than the Labour Party itself, now in government, who also enable it. They are doing huge damage to the country, and if they get another term in 4-5 years, there will be little choice other than to leave altogether I expect.

[Contrarian]

It's been a while since you’ve been around, Westy. I'm spending a significant amount of time in Hong Kong now. I’ve opened a company there and set up local phone numbers, banking, and everything else that comes with being in a place more frequently. There's a learning curve. I also hold a long-term multi-entry Chinese visa, allowing me to enter the mainland whenever I wish.

I am scouting around for locations, perhaps to snowbird in at first. We discussed this a bit on this topic. HK/China is likely as I'm familiar with both, as are the southern US, Portugal, and one or two other spots. It may be I don't settle on just one and float about a bit.

But the Islamification of the UK, while an issue, is less of an urgent threat than the Labour Party itself, now in government, who also enable it. They are doing huge damage to the country, and if they get another term in 4-5 years, there will be little choice other than to leave altogether I expect.

Perhaps sell your house now, while it still have value, and rent a house in the UK. If you wait a few years you either won't be able to sell as everyone is also trying to sell, or you will lose a bundle because of the lower price you get.

[Manny]

We live in a place where immigrants can't afford to, so we are somewhat insulated from it. It'd be the type of place white flight would seek out as the infection spreads out from the city centres, as it tends to. So I doubt our values will suffer in my lifetime.

We've got one respectable Indian-looking family further down the road who own pharmacies, a few in the nearby corner shop (like a 7/11) and the petrol station, as is usual, and some in an Indian restaurant about a mile away. You need to drive two or three miles towards the city before you'll start seeing any others.

On China though, per the topic. The Chinese take quite a hard line with Muslims, they won't put up with any of their crap. That's a plus for China.

[Contrarian]

We live in a place where immigrants can't afford to, so we are somewhat insulated from it. It'd be the type of place white flight would seek out as the infection spreads out from the city centres, as it tends to. So I doubt our values will suffer in my lifetime.

We've got one respectable Indian-looking family further down the road who own pharmacies, a few in the nearby corner shop (like a 7/11) and the petrol station, as is usual, and some in an Indian restaurant about a mile away. You need to drive two or three miles towards the city before you'll start seeing any others.

On China though, per the topic. The Chinese take quite a hard line with Muslims, they won't put up with any of their crap. That's a plus for China.

 

[dorbradavid]

As a westerner, you will find the system stacked against you if you run into a dispute with a local (if thy try to scam you). 

I understand that China, Russia and others are safe when it comes to violent crimes.  There's no problem walking the streets at night for you and your family.  However, the question is whether it is safe as a westerner, being British, American, Canadian, Australian, European?  I brought up this topic years ago and was assured there are no problems as long as you follow the law.  However recently we saw prisoner swaps between the west and the east and it makes you wonder where all these westerners really did break the law or not.  Any thoughts?

[Manny]

That's probably true. But how frequent are these scams?

I know and I've spoken to lots of people who spend a lot of time there and/or live there. The only negative tales I have heard is when a bloke gets himself entangled with an attractive woman in a club or something, and maybe got robbed in his hotel room later. But a lot of the women at stuff like that are from the Philippines and elsewhere. And that kind of stuff happens in a lot of countries if you make foolish decisions.