Moscow Crocus Concert hall shooting

[2tallbill]

Gunmen kill 40 in attack at concert hall near Moscow, state news agency says
MOSCOW, March 22 (Reuters) - At least 40 people were killed and more
than 100 injured when five gunmen dressed in camouflage opened fire
with automatic weapons at people at a concert in the Crocus City Hall
near Moscow, in one of the worst such attacks on Russia in years.

Flames leapt into the sky and plumes of black smoke rose above the venue,
Reuters pictures and video showed.
Russian media reported a second blast at the venue and there were reports
that some of the gunmen had barricaded themselves somewhere in the
building.

read all about it here
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/shooting-blast-reported-concert-hall-near-moscow-agencies-2024-03-22/

[2tallbill]

[2tallbill]

Death toll from concert hall terrorist attack rises to 133


MOSCOW, March 23. /TASS/. The death toll from the terrorist attack at the Crocus City Hall music venue near Moscow has climbed to 133 people, the Russian Investigative Committee told TASS.

"As the rubble was being removed in the concert hall of the Crocus City Hall, the number of people killed in the terrorist attack has risen to 133. The search operation is underway," the statement said.

https://tass.com/emergencies/1764837

[2tallbill]

Putin declares March 24 day of nationwide mourning

NOVO-OGARYOVO, March 23. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared March 24 a day of nationwide mourning after the terrorist attack at the Crocus City Hall mall.

https://tass.com/emergencies/1764787


Intel agencies detain 11 people involved in Crocus City Hall attack — FSB
MOSCOW, March 23. /TASS/. Intelligence agencies have detained 11 people, including four terrorists, who were directly involved in an attack on the Crocus City Hall, Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) said in a statement.

"The activities of intelligence and law enforcement agencies have resulted in the detention of 11 people, including four terrorists, who directly participated in the terrorist attack on the Crocus City Hall," the statement reads.

https://tass.com/emergencies/1764663

[Texan77]

It appears Terrorist from Afghanistan are back.

Islamic State-Khorasan, known as ISIS-K, took credit for a deadly attack in Moscow that killed at least 133 people, leading to the arrest of 11 suspects — four of whom were directly involved with the attack. Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed the nation in a television broadcast about the "bloody, barbaric terrorist act" and declared March 24 a day of mourning.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-ghost-of-russia-s-past-wars-comes-back-to-haunt-moscow/ar-BB1kptKB?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=af4f2263f4df4c01a92ca0c378d4168a&ei=50

[2tallbill]

It appears Terrorist from Afghanistan are back.

Russia is claiming that Ukraine was involved. All the Russian sycophants
here will be backing that claim in the next posts. BUT they can waive away
any Russian involvement in any action Russia has ever been accused of.

My comments (sarcasm font)

Russia killed all the Nazi's in Ukraine so now they joined up with ISIS
to fill the void. 

[Markje]

It appears Terrorist from Afghanistan are back.

Russia is claiming that Ukraine was involved. All the Russian sycophants
here will be backing that claim in the next posts. BUT they can waive away
any Russian involvement in any action Russia has ever been accused of.

My comments (sarcasm font)

Russia killed all the Nazi's in Ukraine so now they joined up with ISIS
to fill the void.

There's a couple of huge red flags in my book that don't add up.
You can call it being pro-russia, but I'm just calling it pro-thinker.

• Suspects were seen and apprehended driving towards Ukraine, not their home country
• Isis had been quiet, why start terror now on a country activly in war and not with them
• How is any of this benefitting IS, since they claim to want a muslim-state. This will only send more muslims to the ukraine-meatgrinder.
• Ukraine vehemently denies involvment, just a little too over-the-top for my taste.

[Texan77]

Markje you really do not think. Putin was warned about the attacks three days before the attacks by the USA. He did not believe it. He claimed USA propaganda! Then after wards he blames Ukraine. In the end he captures all the people involved and nothing about Ukraine. ISIS takes credit for the attacks. Just when you read Russian propaganda you miss so much of what is really happening.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-dismissed-us-warnings-about-a-potential-terror-incident-as-blackmail-just-3-days-before-concert-hall-attack/ar-BB1knpXu?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=657b2be9f6714fddb3e9dbe269af8b11&ei=77

[Texan77]

Basically this attacks are being used to convince Russians to accept another wave of mobilization or justifying of the war, so Moscow has every reason to blame Ukraine, but Ukraine had no reason to do this attack as it is not in their interest. They want to bomb oil refinery, air bases, munition factories, train bridges and things like that to keep Russia from being able to send supplies to the front. Bombing a concert hall only turns the Russian public more against them and makes the war harder to win. Russia has admitted that they have stopped a number of these attacked from ISIS k recently. So now they are making that these people were heading to Ukraine to imply the government of Ukraine was involved which is about the most stupid place to go if you are really trying to escape Russian law enforcement. The Ukraine border is the most law enforced area in all of Russia. But do not let any real logic get in the way of good propaganda story every Ukraine hater wants to see. 

[BC]

Hillary did it.

[2tallbill]

There's a couple of huge red flags in my book that don't add up.
1. You can call it being pro-russia, but I'm just calling it pro-thinker.

• 2.Suspects were seen and apprehended driving towards Ukraine, not their home country
• 3. Isis had been quiet, why start terror now on a country activly in war and not with them
• 4. How is any of this benefitting IS, since they claim to want a muslim-state. This will only send more muslims to the ukraine-meatgrinder.
• 5. Ukraine vehemently denies involvment, just a little too over-the-top for my taste.

NOTE: I added numbers in Markje's post to make it easier to tie my rebuttals
to his arguments.

1. I didn't say Pro-Russia, I said sycophants. If there is one example on
the forum where you or one of the others admitted Russia lied, killed,
shot something down, or was guilty, etc. then I will change sycophants
to Pro-Russian in future posts. Until then, sycophants is more accurate.   

2. Islamic State Khorasan* (ISIS-K) is from Afghanistan it's 3,500 km
away if you draw a straight line on a map. Look at a map, tell me how to get to Afghanistan from Moscow. You can't get there from there. They had to get out
of Moscow. That's was their plan. They mostly got caught, their plan sucked.
More will get swept up as the investigations continue.

3. ISIS terrorism is quiet until it isn't. 9-11 was a huge shock too. 

4. This one needs rewritten. I don't get the link from a terror cell to
fighting on the ground against a real army. Terrorism is antithetical
to fighting real armies on the ground

5. Ukraine denies helping, that's suspicious? If you asked if Canada
helped, they would vehemently deny involvement.

Ask Russia if they were involved in the death of the Polish president
Lech Kaczyński. They vehemently denied involvement. According to
your reasoning that just a little too over-the-top for your taste.


*ISIS-K is the Islamic State branch that has most consistently and energetically attempted terrorist attacks across Europe, including in Russia.
ISIS-K has planned some 21 attacks in nine countries in the past year, up
from eight the previous year.

European authorities have arrested ISIS-K operatives on multiple occasions. After years of warnings that Islamic State was rebuilding the capacity and resolve to resume an international terrorist campaign.

[2tallbill]

ISIS-K: Brutal IS branch behind Moscow attack
ISIS-K claimed a January 3 bombing that killed 95 people in Kerman, Iran. US officials said they had warned their Iranian counterpart ahead of the attack, as they say they did before the Moscow shooting.

In March, US intelligence officials indicated that ISIS-K had an active presence
in Russia — with plans to orchestrate attacks in Moscow. Russia's FSB
security service claimed that it prevented an armed attack by ISIS-K
on a synagogue in the Kaluga region near Moscow on March 7.

Russian airstrikes on behalf of President Bashar al-Assad on IS positions
changed the course of Syria's civil war. Many ISIS leaders have since
condemned Putin as a leader who has the blood of Muslims on his hands.
ISIS-K propaganda also refers to the history of Soviet intervention in
Afghanistan.

There is a lot more read all about it here
https://www.dw.com/en/isis-k-which-claimed-moscow-attack-is-a-brutal-is-branch/a-68653285

[2tallbill]

What is ISIS-K, the group that claims it carried out the Moscow concert attack?
The group has sought to distinguish itself among jihadi fighters by adopting
a radical Islamic worldview more militant and uncompromising than its rivals,
including al-Qaida and the Taliban.

But ISIS-K is fighting or has declared hostilities against Al Qaeda, China,
Iran, Pakistan, Russia, Syria, the Taliban and the United States.

ISIS-K has "shown they can take on major powers and survive," Byman
said. "They get support and financial contributions from wealthy
individuals in the Islamic world."

Above is just a few excerpts read the entire article by clicking on the link
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/24/1240488528/isis-k-moscow-concert-attack-explained

[2tallbill]

Hillary did it.

No way, she hit the reset button and solved all the problems between
the US and Russia, worked brilliantly as usual. 

[Markje]

2. Islamic State Khorasan* (ISIS-K) is from Afghanistan it's 3,500 km
away if you draw a straight line on a map. Look at a map, tell me how to get to Afghanistan from Moscow. You can't get there from there. They had to get out
of Moscow. That's was their plan. They mostly got caught, their plan sucked.
More will get swept up as the investigations continue.

The most obvious route being through Kazakhstan, tadjikistan (which is where they got passports) and then onwards.
Considering that Kazakhstan is not much further than Ukraine from moscow, and getting across borders is much easier when there isn't, you know, an active warzone there.....

3. ISIS terrorism is quiet until it isn't. 9-11 was a huge shock too. 

To the USA the only shock was that it was on USA-territory, there had been numerous attacks inside afghanistan/syria/libya/et.al. for years before that.

4. This one needs rewritten. I don't get the link from a terror cell to
fighting on the ground against a real army. Terrorism is antithetical
to fighting real armies on the ground

Yeah me neither, which is why its suspicious to me.

5. Ukraine denies helping, that's suspicious? If you asked if Canada
helped, they would vehemently deny involvement.

No they'd scoff and say 'of course we aren't' ..... vehemently denying something, reeks of something else, especially that quickly. Now if this was the only point, it would be less of a red-flag, but together with the rest? dunno.

Ask Russia if they were involved in the death of the Polish president
Lech Kaczyński. They vehemently denied involvement. According to
your reasoning that just a little too over-the-top for your taste.

They didn't. They denied it normally AND started an investigation AND found the real problem.

[2tallbill]

The most obvious route being through Kazakhstan, tadjikistan (which is where they got passports) and then onwards.
Considering that Kazakhstan is not much further than Ukraine from moscow, and getting across borders is much easier when there isn't, you know, an active warzone there.....

Show me any link or proof that the terrorist were not caught in or around
Moscow. My wife showed me a video (yesterday) of one terrorist being
interrogated with his hands secured behind his back. He was wearing a
wet T-shirt and shivering. He was near the Concert Hall.

The news yesterday (my yesterday when I started posting about this) said
that the terrorists tried to hide.
 
I am sure none of these terrorists were captured a mile from the Russian/Ukraine border. Where is the border by the way? (East or West of Dolhobyczow).

[2tallbill]

Yeah me neither, which is why its suspicious to me.

Then why do you believe that a terror cell
1. Wanted to cross a warzone where both sides would have killed them.
2. Would, Could and Had contacted ANY Ukrainian State official
3. Why any official in Ukraine would trust them.
4. Why they would trust any official in Ukraine
5. Why would a Muslim terrorist organization interact with Non-Muslims for their
escape plan.

[2tallbill]

They didn't. They denied it normally AND started an investigation AND found the real problem.

Did both the Ukrainians and Russians deny it to you? That's how you know
one of them did it normally and the other was vehemently?

[Markje]

Show me any link or proof that the terrorist were not caught in or around
Moscow.

O, because you ask nicely.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/03/23/meduza-geolocates-arrest-video-of-moscow-terrorism-suspect-to-town-85-miles-from-ukrainian-border

https://twitter.com/auditor_ya/status/1771544294194553282

[2tallbill]

O, because you ask nicely.

Thank you for that.

There is another possibility. Gomel is not too far away and they have
trains and an airport. Gomel is closer than Kiev which has trains but
no flights. They didn't need to cross a warzone where they could get
killed by both sides.

In my opinion, they were always going to get caught or killed. The exit
plan looks improbable at best. A terrorist trying to operate in the FSB's 
backyard isn't going to get away. They have real tech, they don't
need search warrants and this is what they (the FSB) is designed to do.

Right now all of the living terrorists are upside down hanging by their
ankles getting the firehose and electrodes (as they should) until they
catch every accomplice and round up anyone who gave them a single
kopeck. 

In the end they will find that Ukraine has no connection, but they will
never say it publicly. It's better to paint Ukraine as a harbor for Nazi's
and terrorists.

They would have been rounded up wherever they were fleeing to.
Moscow is too far from a border to get away. The Chechen guards
caught the terrorist that made it out of Moscow.

[2tallbill]

I don't know how much credibility to give the articles below.


US had warned Russia ISIS was determined to attack
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/23/europe/us-had-warned-russia-isis-was-determined-to-attack-intl-hnk/index.html


U.S. Warned Russia Before Moscow Attack
https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/russia-moscow-concert-hall-shooting-attack-1a009cc4

[mhr7]

I don't know how much credibility to give the articles below.


US had warned Russia ISIS was determined to attack
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/23/europe/us-had-warned-russia-isis-was-determined-to-attack-intl-hnk/index.html


U.S. Warned Russia Before Moscow Attack
https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/russia-moscow-concert-hall-shooting-attack-1a009cc4

They are credible, I received an e-mail from the US embassy a few weeks ago telling Americans that terrorists were plotting something and to stay away from big crowds. I can only assume they told the Russians.

[BC]

Show me any link or proof that the terrorist were not caught in or around
Moscow.

Whoever they arrested, how, where and when is under RU control.  Grab some random person off the street, cut off their ear and make them eat it and they'll probably tell you anything you want to know.  You will know only what FSB wants you to know.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/03/23/russian-state-media-release-interrogation-videos-of-concert-attack-suspects-a84592

[Texan77]

When you look at the response time by the local police it almost looks like someone inside Russian government was making sure the attack was as bad as possible. Eleven people were arrested but we only know about the four who carried out the attack. I wonder who the other people were. No one was trying to put out the fire for almost an hour and a half. No one even called the police for over twenty minutes after the attack started. Then the responders were slow to get there like another 25 minutes. After that there were more delays before anyone was getting any kind of help. Maybe this is normal in Russia.

Then to say they were on their way to Ukraine when they were as close to Belarus even according to Russian propaganda news. It would be easier to cross the border into Ukraine from Belarus than from Russia, but it does not make as good of press. Almost any border is easier to cross than the Russian Ukraine border. The Belarus border would be hard to cross also just not quite as bad as Russian to Ukraine.

This is all being built up so the public in Russia will not be too upset about mobilizing more solders for the summer offensive Russia wants to have. In all likelihood this summer Ukraine will receive a new batch of weapons and Russia will have a new batch of conscripts. Then the next blood bath will begin.

[Markje]

Then the responders were slow to get there like another 25 minutes. After that there were more delays before anyone was getting any kind of help. Maybe this is normal in Russia.

And apparently, In America.

9-11 From the wikipedia page:

8:46:40:[a] Flight 11 crashes almost directly midway into the North Tower's central core at roughly 440 miles per hour (710 km/h; 200 m/s; 380 kn),[24] striking the center of the north face between floors 93 and 99.

9:24-9:38 (approximately): Three people either try to climb down or fall from a 79th floor window, 79-351, on the southern end of the South Tower's east face close to the southeast corner.[77] One lands on firefighter Danny Suhr as he prepares to enter the South Tower, killing them both.[78]

So almost 45 minutes and they're still preparing to go into the skyscraper.

And at that time, it was simply an airplane-wrong, it wasn't yet classified as a terrorist attack whilst the moscow theatre had active gunmen inside.