Alexei Navalny has died in prison

[AvHdB]

Last week read a report that seems to originate from Al-Jeerza that A. Navalny was going to be used as part of a prisoner swap. The Russians seemed to be held in Germany and somewhere in Asia (India) I recall.

Really not sure what to think of this hypothesis. On one side have read some other conspiracy theories that are less bizarre on the flip side it makes some sense.

[rosco]

Last week read a report that seems to originate from Al-Jeerza that A. Navalny was going to be used as part of a prisoner swap. The Russians seemed to be held in Germany and somewhere in Asia (India) I recall.

Really not sure what to think of this hypothesis. On one side have read some other conspiracy theories that are less bizarre on the flip side it makes some sense.

We may or may not find out the truth but I still maintain, the timing of Navalny's death doesn't benefit the Kremlin. He could have been despatched at their time of choosing, if they considered him that much of a threat so none of this makes sense given the pivotal moment, in Western funding etc.

Navalny was the poster boy for the West, possibly a paid opposition to Putin and his death has given those seeking to continue funding the war against Russia, a shot in the arm.

[Bodine]

We may or may not find out the truth...<snip>...a shot in the arm.

Hah! There you go! You may have just solved the mystery!

Navalny did, according to reports, got his first two vaccinations then received 2 ensuing booster shots...

 

[andrewfi]

If he was exchanged, it'd help solve a problem for Russia in terms of the hostages held by the Western countries, and it'd take Navalny off the chessboard.

Death aside, Navalny wasn't going anywhere for a few years, so he was hardly a thorn in the side of Russia if he was even considered such by the PTB.

Apart from some coincidental timings and clearly coordinated communications, which rather support the idea of an assassination originating from outside of Russia, it seems that he probably died of natural causes. Even if the Russians found signs of foul play, I rather doubt it'd suit the Russians to make any external 'interference' public. If they did so, it'd be necessary to take it very seriously and in a public manner. That means we will almost certainly never know what actually happened.

[rosco]

As predicted, the Western media are making a meal of Navalny's funeral. Here's a run down of some of the classics;

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-sky-news-blog-live-12541713

- The ceremony was held as quickly as possible....The coffin was carried out of the church about an hour after the ceremony started.....like a normal funeral.

- Only his mother will be allowed into the ceremony....300 people were allowed in the church for the ceremony.

- Russian opposition leader.....with 1% of the vote. The communist party are the opposition.

- Thousands of people could be arrested.....nobody was arrested.

- Thousands of people are at the church chanting Navalny.....video shows a few hundred chanting Alexi. Plenty more were there watching and being nosey rather than supporting.

- US Ambassador Lyne Tracy was there holding flowers and looking really sad. Hmmmm ok.

- Prior to the body arriving at the church, the media tell us that nobody knows what's happening and nobody's being allowed in. The funeral then takes place normally just like any other.

- Snipers have been placed on rooftops......reports say snipers were on rooftops.

And so it goes on. All drama and little substance to create a bigger story than it really is. He'll be forgotten about quickly except from when the West needs to score browny points against Russia. Even when it's confirmed to be a blood clot, the mud has already stuck and many will believe the Putin killed Navalny make believe.

What a show.

[andrewfi]

Navalny's final piece of value for his sponsors. Now his wife will probably become the flag bearer for his sponsor's goals. But her value is even lower than her husband's. She's an unknown and, living outside of Russia is hardly going to be able to build even the derisory level of support that her dead hubby managed.

[rosco]

Navalny's final piece of value for his sponsors. Now his wife will probably become the flag bearer for his sponsor's goals. But her value is even lower than her husband's. She's an unknown and, living outside of Russia is hardly going to be able to build even the derisory level of support that her dead hubby managed.

I saw her give a speech at the EU, from yesterday I believe. Really low end with zero substance and poor delivery yet somehow, the EU politicians kept interrupting her for a round of applause. Clown world.

[Bodine]

As predicted, the Western media are making a meal of Navalny's funeral. Here's a run down of some of the classics;

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-putin-sky-news-blog-live-12541713

- The ceremony was held as quickly as possible....The coffin was carried out of the church about an hour after the ceremony started.....like a normal funeral.

- Only his mother will be allowed into the ceremony....300 people were allowed in the church for the ceremony.

- Russian opposition leader.....with 1% of the vote. The communist party are the opposition.

- Thousands of people could be arrested.....nobody was arrested.

- Thousands of people are at the church chanting Navalny.....video shows a few hundred chanting Alexi. Plenty more were there watching and being nosey rather than supporting.

- US Ambassador Lyne Tracy was there holding flowers and looking really sad. Hmmmm ok.

- Prior to the body arriving at the church, the media tell us that nobody knows what's happening and nobody's being allowed in. The funeral then takes place normally just like any other.

- Snipers have been placed on rooftops......reports say snipers were on rooftops.

And so it goes on. All drama and little substance to create a bigger story than it really is. He'll be forgotten about quickly except from when the West needs to score browny points against Russia. Even when it's confirmed to be a blood clot, the mud has already stuck and many will believe the Putin killed Navalny make believe.

What a show.

 

They're likely erecting a special statue for his and hail him a hero right beside that drug/addict who died of fentanyl overdose in 2022. Pretty funny what/who we saintified these days.

[Markje]

In other news:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/2110473428/tienduizenden-artsen-in-seoul-demonstreren-tegen-makkelijkere-opleidingen

Short summary : In Seoul (south korea), 40.000 doctors protested against simplification of the rules so more medical professionalists could be admitted.

So,  we have navalny's funeral (world news , 1000's of people) against this page-5 article with 40.000 protesters that dwarfs navalny's funeral in terms of attendance.

Its also a matter of narrative, they could also have said: 0.01% of muscovites were present at Navalny's funeral. Now that number does not seem to be any kind of significant 'murdered' opposition leader.

Sad.

[2tallbill]

And Assange should face the death penalty. 

Or the presidential medal of Freedom.

[2tallbill]

Does anyone think that Putin's incarcerated enemies can die without his permission?

I was wrong, I should have said ......
"I don't think that they can be murdered without his permission."

A CIA asset let's not forget. Likely bumped off from afar by his employer, Uncle Sam, his
demise was timely in that it moves the inconvenient Tucker Carlson interview further down the
page.

In hindsight I think that it's highly unlikely that the CIA assisted in Alexei Navalny's demise.

[Texan77]

Just reading list of suspected Putin murders. A real nice dude. Why in god's green earth would someone think the USA killed Navalny? It is because you believe anything Russian in propaganda!!!! This is really funny and sad all at the same time.

[rosco]

Why in god's green earth would someone think the USA killed Navalny? It is because you believe anything Russian in propaganda!!!! This is really funny and sad all at the same time.

You're not the brightest bloke are you? You should at least attempt to apply a little bit of critical thinking before posting stupid. Ask yourself the question Texan77, what would the US gain from Navalny's death at that very moment in time?

Yes the idea of the CIA killing Navalny in a Russian penal colony, might be a little fanciful but not impossible. As we speak, Ukraine are running out of men and ammunition, they're losing ground on a daily basis and people are generally getting a little war weary. Public support is dwindling, questions are being asked about the finances, we're sick of Zelensky begging and pointing fingers and the attention has begun to focus elsewhere.

So why would the US kill Navalny? Well a very important vote for a further $60 billion in military aid for Ukraine needs Congressional support. Anything newsworthy that makes Putin look evil, helps swing opinion and reaffirm the need to fight nasty Russia. The media played their part brilliantly and delivered the Navalny funeral with blockbuster success. If you didn't know about the blokes checkered history or the fact he's a nobody, you'd think he was actually important.

You probably still think that Russia blew up Nordstrom 2. 

Do you ever try thinking Texan77? You may even be able to answer your own questions with a bit of information gathering, reasoning, reflection and analysing. Try it.....

[andrewfi]

At the same time, no matter what one's opinion about Putin, his government, or the activities in Ukraine, we should assume that Putin and his government act in a generally rational manner. Even if we disagree with what is happening, one can safely infer that they are not stupid people.

On that basis, we can, therefore, assume that Putin and his government are fully aware of the likely brouhaha that would flow from killing a prisoner who is seen as a figurehead and potential future leader in Russia.

Given that, why would Putin authorise killing Navalny, a person that Putin and the Russian government know is, within Russia, a nobody?

On the contrary, one might rationally assume he would be kept as safe as possible without giving him privileges beyond his nominal status as a criminal within the penal system.

Was he killed by the CIA or MI6? Who knows? We certainly do not. We are not in a position to know. However, we do know that he was not in particularly good health. He had suffered as a result of years of self-indulgence. He was unlikely to have been able to continue with his accustomed regime of 'self-medicated recreational indulgence'. That would not have been conducive to his condition. There's public evidence of his condition and medical history - it is no secret.

I think, based on what we know, that he died in exactly the manner that the Russian authorities have disclosed. Attempts were made to keep him alive, but they failed. The Western powers and their thought leaders have used the opportunity presented to them in the best way possible.

The only countervailing evidence is the series of coincidences before and after his death. The visit from his wife with care packages, including comestibles. Her first visit in many months - IIRC, since his imprisonment. Then there was the invitation to speak at a big EU event—an event rendered powerful and timely by his demise just a few days after she visited her husband. That would have been planned and scheduled well in advance.

So, I have suspicions, but no evidence or proof supports my suspicions. Only timely coincidences, and, as I have said before, there are no coincidences. What we think of as coincidences are events for which we do not yet know the connections.

[rosco]

On the contrary, one might rationally assume he would be kept as safe as possible without giving him privileges beyond his nominal status as a criminal within the penal system.

It would be safe to suggest that Navalny was more useful to the West dead, than he was sitting in a prison cell in Russia. The US has a history of sacrificing people for the greater good and in this case it would be $60 billion in military aid, to keep the war going.

[andrewfi]

On the contrary, one might rationally assume he would be kept as safe as possible without giving him privileges beyond his nominal status as a criminal within the penal system.

It would be safe to suggest that Navalny was more useful to the West dead, than he was sitting in a prison cell in Russia. The US has a history of sacrificing people for the greater good and in this case it would be $60 billion in military aid, to keep the war going.

That's entirely true—see the 'coincidental timings' noted above. The Russians would be absolutely aware of the relative importance of Navalny to the Russians and the Western powers and would not, rationally, do anything to give the Western powers the opportunity to use him one last time. But, as I noted above, we cannot know that he was murdered under the instructions of people outside of Russia. Also, we cannot say that the Russian government did not do it. But if we assume both parties are rational, and I do, then we can say that if he was topped, it was much more likely to have been done at the behest of people outside of Russia.

[Texan77]

Why in god's green earth would someone think the USA killed Navalny? It is because you believe anything Russian in propaganda!!!! This is really funny and sad all at the same time.

You're not the brightest bloke are you? You should at least attempt to apply a little bit of critical thinking before posting stupid. Ask yourself the question Texan77, what would the US gain from Navalny's death at that very moment in time?

Yes the idea of the CIA killing Navalny in a Russian penal colony, might be a little fanciful but not impossible. As we speak, Ukraine are running out of men and ammunition, they're losing ground on a daily basis and people are generally getting a little war weary. Public support is dwindling, questions are being asked about the finances, we're sick of Zelensky begging and pointing fingers and the attention has begun to focus elsewhere.

So why would the US kill Navalny? Well a very important vote for a further $60 billion in military aid for Ukraine needs Congressional support. Anything newsworthy that makes Putin look evil, helps swing opinion and reaffirm the need to fight nasty Russia. The media played their part brilliantly and delivered the Navalny funeral with blockbuster success. If you didn't know about the blokes checkered history or the fact he's a nobody, you'd think he was actually important.

You probably still think that Russia blew up Nordstrom 2. 

Do you ever try thinking Texan77? You may even be able to answer your own questions with a bit of information gathering, reasoning, reflection and analysing. Try it.....

If the west wanted him dead, why did not just let him die from the Russian poisoning the first time. The USA could have seen he did not get enough care in Germany if they wanted him dead. Much easier to kill him then and no one would have known.

Wake up the USA did not go to Siberia penal colony and kill him. Putin wanted him dead. This because HE EXPOSES THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CORRUPTION IN RUSSIA. The average Russia would rather not think their government is that corrupt. His videos were very funny to the average Russian while he explains the massive amount of wealth Russian elite have and how small their salaries are. If you get thru the propaganda the whole war in Ukraine is about corruption and stealing.

Gee, if it snowed too much in Russia you blame the USA's CIA. I think the USA will approve renewed weapons shipments to Ukraine after Putin re-election. At least I hope so.

Meanwhile Russia is losing aircraft like no tomorrow. 15 fighter jets in two weeks. After the AU-50 was shot down Russia is unable to respond to Ukrainian air defense systems. The loss of fighter jets is bringing the Russian offensive to an end.

This summer is shaping up to be a very large battle. This is where Russian over whelming mass and low-tech weapons will confront a much smaller Ukrainian army with better technology. I believe the war will be far worse than anything we have seen so far and most likely the battle line will not move much.

Who do you think blew up the pipeline? You most likely think the USA did it is because that is how you think.

[Texan77]

On the contrary, one might rationally assume he would be kept as safe as possible without giving him privileges beyond his nominal status as a criminal within the penal system.

It would be safe to suggest that Navalny was more useful to the West dead, than he was sitting in a prison cell in Russia. The US has a history of sacrificing people for the greater good and in this case it would be $60 billion in military aid, to keep the war going.

That's entirely true—see the 'coincidental timings' noted above. The Russians would be absolutely aware of the relative importance of Navalny to the Russians and the Western powers and would not, rationally, do anything to give the Western powers the opportunity to use him one last time. But, as I noted above, we cannot know that he was murdered under the instructions of people outside of Russia. Also, we cannot say that the Russian government did not do it. But if we assume both parties are rational, and I do, then we can say that if he was topped, it was much more likely to have been done at the behest of people outside of Russia.

What I think most likely happened is Putin sent him to Siberia where he lived in extremely harsh conditions and the conditions killed him without anyone having to do anything. I do not really know but that is my best guess. Why do you think someone outside of Russia is going to be able to get into a Russian Max security prison and do him in? He was able to get information out and still causing Putin problems from prison before he went to Siberia. So, Putin sent him to Siberia MAXs security where a lot of prisoners do not live that long. He was a dead man when they sent him there the only thing missing was the time and date.

[rosco]

If the west wanted him dead, why did not just let him die from the Russian poisoning the first time. The USA could have seen he did not get enough care in Germany if they wanted him dead. Much easier to kill him then and no one would have known.

This is very painful Texan77.

There was no conflict between Russia and Ukraine in 2020 and there was no vote to pass $100's of billions in lethal aid to Ukraine so they could fight Russia. Navalny's death wouldn't benefit the West at that time.

Please engage your brain.

Wake up the USA did not go to Siberia penal colony and kill him. Putin wanted him dead.

He didn't die in Siberia, he died in Kharp in the Artic Circle. You literally get everything wrong man.

His videos were very funny to the average Russian while he explains the massive amount of wealth Russian elite have and how small their salaries are.

You mean just like in the west?

If you get thru the propaganda the whole war in Ukraine is about corruption and stealing.

Wow......this is the first time you took a swing a hit the ball......congratulations!! 

Yes this war is about the west money laundering and stealing, which really pissed off Russia. NATO has been doing this in other countries so they have form.

Gee, if it snowed too much in Russia you blame the USA's CIA.

If you could read and think, you'll note that I said it might be fanciful but not impossible. Andrew noted that his wife visited with gifts a few days before his passing and just happened to be booked in for a speech at the EU the very next day.

Stranger things have happened and the timing of it all raises questions.

Meanwhile Russia is losing aircraft like no tomorrow. 15 fighter jets in two weeks. After the AU-50 was shot down Russia is unable to respond to Ukrainian air defense systems. The loss of fighter jets is bringing the Russian offensive to an end.

Yea according to Ukraine. Do you really believe the stats they read out to the western media? I've no doubt that they are causing a lot of damage to the Russian's but they lie.....like a lot.

This summer is shaping up to be a very large battle. This is where Russian over whelming mass and low-tech weapons will confront a much smaller Ukrainian army with better technology. I believe the war will be far worse than anything we have seen so far and most likely the battle line will not move much.

Right this is where I'm shutting you down. You're programmed, brain washed and really believe this stuff. Why not listen to interviews from Ukrainians fighting on the front lines, where they talk about Russian forces being really well trained and using modern weaponry with good supply lines.

It's amazing how Russia are gaining ground, taking new towns daily and destroying the Ukrainian army, who are now on the run, with spades and stolen TV's.

Who do you think blew up the pipeline? You most likely think the USA did it is because that is how you think.

Only the hard of thinking and the gullible believe Russia blew up their own pipeline. I mean, Biden pretty much admitted it and the investigations being dropped say it all.

[Manny]

It's like having our very own Sleepy Joe in the house. Dealing with Texan is like Learning With Mother, isn't it? 

[Texan77]

If the west wanted him dead, why did not just let him die from the Russian poisoning the first time. The USA could have seen he did not get enough care in Germany if they wanted him dead. Much easier to kill him then and no one would have known.

This is very painful Texan77.

There was no conflict between Russia and Ukraine in 2020 and there was no vote to pass $100's of billions in lethal aid to Ukraine so they could fight Russia. Navalny's death wouldn't benefit the West at that time.

Please engage your brain.

Wake up the USA did not go to Siberia penal colony and kill him. Putin wanted him dead.

He didn't die in Siberia, he died in Kharp in the Artic Circle. You literally get everything wrong man.

His videos were very funny to the average Russian while he explains the massive amount of wealth Russian elite have and how small their salaries are.

You mean just like in the west?

If you get thru the propaganda the whole war in Ukraine is about corruption and stealing.

Wow......this is the first time you took a swing a hit the ball......congratulations!! 

Yes this war is about the west money laundering and stealing, which really pissed off Russia. NATO has been doing this in other countries so they have form.

Gee, if it snowed too much in Russia you blame the USA's CIA.

If you could read and think, you'll note that I said it might be fanciful but not impossible. Andrew noted that his wife visited with gifts a few days before his passing and just happened to be booked in for a speech at the EU the very next day.

Stranger things have happened and the timing of it all raises questions.

Meanwhile Russia is losing aircraft like no tomorrow. 15 fighter jets in two weeks. After the AU-50 was shot down Russia is unable to respond to Ukrainian air defense systems. The loss of fighter jets is bringing the Russian offensive to an end.

Yea according to Ukraine. Do you really believe the stats they read out to the western media? I've no doubt that they are causing a lot of damage to the Russian's but they lie.....like a lot.

This summer is shaping up to be a very large battle. This is where Russian over whelming mass and low-tech weapons will confront a much smaller Ukrainian army with better technology. I believe the war will be far worse than anything we have seen so far and most likely the battle line will not move much.

Right this is where I'm shutting you down. You're programmed, brain washed and really believe this stuff. Why not listen to interviews from Ukrainians fighting on the front lines, where they talk about Russian forces being really well trained and using modern weaponry with good supply lines.

It's amazing how Russia are gaining ground, taking new towns daily and destroying the Ukrainian army, who are now on the run, with spades and stolen TV's.

Who do you think blew up the pipeline? You most likely think the USA did it is because that is how you think.

Only the hard of thinking and the gullible believe Russia blew up their own pipeline. I mean, Biden pretty much admitted it and the investigations being dropped say it all.

No, he did not. It was likely blown up by a group of independent Ukrainians and Russian working outside their governments. The trouble is no one has ever proved who blew it up and Biden did not admit to it. These people do not want to be found. Putin would likely execute them.

Putin is thought to be the richest man on earth and so are his inner circle. Nothing in the west compares. Every general in the Russian army is very rich. Noting like that in the west.

Ukraine is moving to a point where they do not have much ammo but still Russia is paying a big price for the small amount of ground they are taking. Still no ammo from the USA and Europe is not sending 10 per cent enough. But last night Russia lost another ship and lost 15 aircraft in two weeks. Bridge blown up inside Russia and another oil depo hit last night. It is all out attack while Ukraine does not have much ammo and Putin election is pending.

Ukraine has to retreat behind natural barriers leave some settlements not viable to defend while defenses are being built. The depletion of Russian armor, aircraft and the ships is continuing. Russia is losing all three at a rate they cannot replace them. I am sure your pro Russian blogger is not saying this.

You are not listening to interviews of Russians fighting on the front lines. It is not fun over there neither. They are dying in mass, and it is being covered up. No time to even pick up bodies. Some Russia troops are better equipment and trained. Over have no training and no combat gear and no idea what they are doing. Russia has thrown whatever they can at the line. Understand this pretending the other side is falling apart is part of the propaganda war. Yes, it is hard being in the Ukraine army now without much ammo. Not so great being Russian neither. As most attacks still end up in failure with a lot of dead.

One pro-western blogger was using a Russian propaganda film picking apart the really bad gear on some of Russia's best troops if you know what to look for. It looks good!

The 60 billion dollars which is just a small fraction of what Russia is spending on the war will likely come soon. It will make a big difference.

Yea Manny you said Ukraine would fall in a week. Kiev was already surrounded on three sides and would be cut off soon. Here we are two years later and Russia still struggling in Donbas. I know the war is going just like the plan.

Alexei Navalny death shows all in Russia there is no reason to resist. All resistance is futile. No chance the election will have any real candidates to oppose Putin. The war will continue. Note to Russians do not believe any opposition as it will only cause you trouble.  Be a good Russian and support Putin and vote for him. Watch TV and believe the news. That how to live a long life. Otherwise not so good. 

[Manny]

Yea Manny you said Ukraine would fall in a week. Kiev was already surrounded on three sides and would be cut off soon. Here we are two years later and Russia still struggling in Donbas. I know the war is going just like the plan.

You are a confused old chap, aren't you?

Russia did not move on Kiev. That apparently isn't part of their plan. Yet. Hard to understand for you perhaps, as the US goes in and simply flattens a place. I think they'd prefer regime change from within and Kiev to be left standing. Were it a war or an invasion in the traditional sense, it would be long over. Not everyone uses the US playbook.

[Texan77]

Yea Manny you said Ukraine would fall in a week. Kiev was already surrounded on three sides and would be cut off soon. Here we are two years later and Russia still struggling in Donbas. I know the war is going just like the plan.

You are a confused old chap, aren't you?

Russia did not move on Kiev. That apparently isn't part of their plan. Yet. Hard to understand for you perhaps, as the US goes in and simply flattens a place. I think they'd prefer regime change from within and Kiev to be left standing. Were it a war or an invasion in the traditional sense, it would be long over. Not everyone uses the US playbook.

The not moving on Kiev was the Propaganda after they lost. How convenient. It is because you will believe anything!!!!

[B.B.]

At the same time, no matter what one's opinion about Putin, his government, or the activities in Ukraine, we should assume that Putin and his government act in a generally rational manner.

It's a different set of rules, Andrew.  I sometimes am called upon to opine on difference between Slavic countries and the West and what it boils down to is: They look like us, but they aren't like us.

On that basis, we can, therefore, assume that Putin and his government are fully aware of the likely brouhaha that would flow from killing a prisoner who is seen as a figurehead and potential future leader in Russia.

They clearly don't give a shit about any "brouhaha."  The fallout from Ukraine is different than they expected; after the S. Ossetia bit, there were some perfunctory sanctions that were lifted after a couple of years because Russia's cooperation was needed elsewhere.  Putin doesn't suffer consequences, externally, for snuffing his enemies and the audience for that activity is internal in any case. 

Given that, why would Putin authorise killing Navalny, a person that Putin and the Russian government know is, within Russia, a nobody?

Like I said, different set of rules.  Also, nobodies, left unchecked, can sometimes become somebodies.  Putin rose to power in a "kill or be killed" environment.  Why would we expect him to act like a Westerner?

On the contrary, one might rationally assume he would be kept as safe as possible without giving him privileges beyond his nominal status as a criminal within the penal system.

And yet, that's not what happened.

Was he killed by the CIA or MI6? Who knows? We certainly do not. We are not in a position to know.

Navalny died in a remote penal colony, wholly under control of the Russian government.  Navalny was a prisoner there, in the custody of the Russian government.  There are basically 2 options at that point: Either he shuffled off this mortal coil on his own, or he was dragging his feet. Putin's enemies often suffer the later fate.  Res Ipsa Loquitur.

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras (unless ofc, one is in sub-Saharan Africa).

I think, based on what we know, that he died in exactly the manner that the Russian authorities have disclosed.

I don't think we can know that at all.  If Putin (or someone "ridding him of a troublesome priest" did it with or without Putin's knowledge) it amounts to "Putin clears self of wrongdoing."

Attempts were made to keep him alive, but they failed. 

An attempt was certainly meant to kill him, as was the case with Magnitsky and others.

The only countervailing evidence is the series of coincidences before and after his death.

Coincidences are tough to fake...and, when it comes to Putin's enemies, "coincidences" can be deadly.


B/B

[Markje]

Yea Manny you said Ukraine would fall in a week. Kiev was already surrounded on three sides and would be cut off soon. Here we are two years later and Russia still struggling in Donbas. I know the war is going just like the plan.

You are a confused old chap, aren't you?

Russia did not move on Kiev. That apparently isn't part of their plan. Yet. Hard to understand for you perhaps, as the US goes in and simply flattens a place. I think they'd prefer regime change from within and Kiev to be left standing. Were it a war or an invasion in the traditional sense, it would be long over. Not everyone uses the US playbook.

The not moving on Kiev was the Propaganda after they lost. How convenient. It is because you will believe anything!!!!

Russia's plan as announced when they started this ordeal back in 'Feb 2022

• No NATO in Ukraine
• No Nazi in Ukraine
• No more war on the Donbass people
• care to guess? But I can re-assure it does not includetakin Kiev in any way.
  

Now Putin had made remarks about being able to take Kiev in 3 days if he had to, but his declared plan does not include taking kiev and I guess he never thought he had to back when this all started.[/list]