Is it better to search in Russia or Ukraine?

[2tallbill]

Is it better to search for a wife (to marry, bring home and live your life with)
in Russia or Ukraine? To live happily ever after?

I realize that this is a hot topic that has been done 1,748 and it turns into a
troop of monkey fighting with their own poop every single time. Let's try to
be more civil this time (1,749)

Yes I agree with that 100% Not every women in Russia is perfect, the same goes for any country. I am sure there are a FEW good women in Ukraine BUT the difference is , it may take you 10 years to find that women and in that 10 years your going to loose so much money and wast so much time.. it simply is not worth the hassle..

[2tallbill]

I am married to a Russian wife. I am not a pure unbiased Solomon by any
means.

There will be strong disagreement with 90% of what I say below.
Before this turns into a food fight, I will make a couple points first in favor
of Russia.
1. Russia has more girls.
2. Russia has a better economy, so the girls are (generalizing here) less
desperate. 
3. Russia does not have entire regions supported by the MOB industry.
 
Ukraine advantages.
1. They do not generally consider themselves superior to others from the
FSU.
2. They don't  require a Visa to travel to. (Just bullets flying overhead).
3. The cities are smaller, especially in the West so if you are from a less populated
area that may be more attractive to you.

The absolutely biggest difference between Russian and Ukrainian women is

Russian women say Gamburger and Ukrainian say Hamburger. (I stole that
from one of my cyber pals from Texas with a Russian wife).

[2tallbill]

Arguments pro and con the Stans are also welcome in this thread

[B.B.]

They don't  require a Visa to travel to. (Just bullets flying overhead).

I have been there 3x since the war started; have yet to be shot at.  After the first time the Kerch Bridge was bombed, Putin ordered 3 days of constant bombardment. 

He killed 17 people. 

While it sux to be 1 of those 17, the odds of getting whacked by a Russian missile are pretty slim.

The cities are smaller, especially in the West so if you are from a less populated area that may be more attractive to you.

You can always agree to meet a girl in Uzhgorod.  Easily accessible from Slovakia and the border is less busy than those along the Polish border.  Uzh itself has some nice restaurants and resorts, and its is too close to the Slovak border for the Russians to shoot at - Slovakia is in NATO and Russia cannot risk war with NATO, plus there is nothing strategic there. 

Girls can cross the border so you could also have a girl meet you in Slovakia - just fly into Košice, which is what I do before I cross over into Ukraine on my way to Lvov/Kiev.  Ukrainian and Slovak are so close that if you speak one you basically speak the other.  They are closer than Spanish and Italian.  Košice has a nice old town and there is a Doubletree (now owned by Hilton) there as well as some nice local pensiones or AirBnBs.

B/B

[Markje]

I have no preference to either Russian or Ukrainian roots.

However I did observe:

Ukrainians tend to value everything in Money. There was more haggling and 'service fees' (aka bribes) going on than in Russia for mundane stuff. (of course there's corruption in police/gov't whatever, but I am talking about mundane stuff groceries, taxis, pharmacies etc.)

Russians seem to be highly interested in just about any culture they can learn from but also can be quite racist concerning the 'stans.

[Texan77]

Ukrainians tend to value everything in Money. There was more haggling and 'service fees' (aka bribes) going on than in Russia for mundane stuff. (of course there's corruption in police/gov't whatever, but I am talking about mundane stuff groceries, taxis, pharmacies etc.)

funny I never experienced that. Just went to a store and paid the marked priced.

[Markje]

funny I never experienced that. Just went to a store and paid the marked priced.

Good for you. Tried a street market?

[AvHdB]

Ukrainians tend to value everything in Money. There was more haggling and 'service fees' (aka bribes) going on than in Russia for mundane stuff. (of course there's corruption in police/gov't whatever, but I am talking about mundane stuff groceries, taxis, pharmacies etc.)

funny I never experienced that. Just went to a store and paid the marked priced.

During my various times visiting or staying months at a time I never experienced this. Both in stores, on the markets and in galleries. The one time I overstayed the length of a visit the border guard reduced substantially the fine upon departure. On a corporate business level bribes and fees were another matter in both Russia and Ukraine. In both environments the bribes were hidden in the beaurocracy.

Perhaps Markje it is the people you were with?

[AvHdB]

On a market the fruit/veggie merchant even though she spoke no English taught me by demonstration how to use an abacus. I moved some boxes of produce for her, was fairly amusing in retrospect.

[Markje]

Perhaps Markje it is the people you were with?

I was out on my own.

Since I have been with my wife, I let her handle all of that.

[Manny]

There is a factor now that the conflict has led to the loss of [insert large number here] of men from Ukraine, not to mention those who fled and relocated abroad to avoid being conscripted. So the whole 'more women than men' thing is likely no longer a thing of folklore. But that would be assuming the women all stayed, and lots of those have also cleared off abroad and are to be found all over the EU and UK.

As Ukrainian women can get red carpet treatment, free visas, and "refugee" status pretty much anywhere in the West now, it strikes me that any who wanted to leave will have done so already. So you might have more luck meeting them in London, Barcelona or Amsterdam.

Some men like to do the white knight rescue mission thing, and Ukraine in its present state is probably fertile hunting ground for those blokes. Most will probably get scammed as always, but still.

Russia or Ukraine, finding a decent woman with good values is key. And as they are the same people, where you search is probably less important than how you search and how you filter information. If I were doing this today, I'd likely focus on Russia, Belarus and the Stans, but not rule Ukraine out entirely.

[andrewfi]

As Ukrainian women can get red carpet treatment, free visas, and "refugee" status pretty much anywhere in the West now, it strikes me that any who wanted to leave will have done so already. So you might have more luck meeting them in London, Barcelona or Amsterdam.

That might change soon enough. The Ukrainian regime is starting to push to get the 'refugees' back. Not just men, but women also. I have little doubt that at least a few governments will not be too unhappy to shift their long-term guests back to whence they came.

Are these people officially classified as refugees in the UK, or do they have some other status?

Mind you, I saw quite a few out and about in Spain a few months ago. Nowadays, if one hears Russian being spoken, chances are that they are not from Russia.

[Texan77]

There is a factor now that the conflict has led to the loss of [insert large number here] of men from Ukraine, not to mention those who fled and relocated abroad to avoid being conscripted. So the whole 'more women than men' thing is likely no longer a thing of folklore. But that would be assuming the women all stayed, and lots of those have also cleared off abroad and are to be found all over the EU and UK.

As Ukrainian women can get red carpet treatment, free visas, and "refugee" status pretty much anywhere in the West now, it strikes me that any who wanted to leave will have done so already. So you might have more luck meeting them in London, Barcelona or Amsterdam.

Some men like to do the white knight rescue mission thing, and Ukraine in its present state is probably fertile hunting ground for those blokes. Most will probably get scammed as always, but still.

Russia or Ukraine, finding a decent woman with good values is key. And as they are the same people, where you search is probably less important than how you search and how you filter information. If I were doing this today, I'd likely focus on Russia, Belarus and the Stans, but not rule Ukraine out entirely.

There has been a surge in women from eastern Eruopean countries including Russia here in the USA.

I went with Yana to the street market a number of times. They would tell us the price up front and offer a discount if we bought several pieces. We never haggled. Maybe it is Markje argumentative and prejudice behavior toward anything Ukrainian might have something to do with it.

Andrew, The Ukrainians here are getting up graded status in the USA. They came as humanitarian protected status now they are being classified as illegal immigrates and visas extended.  The new status gives up graded work privileges. For example, Yarik, Yana's son, will be getting his TWIC card this week. It is a security card meaning he can work on ships and in ports in the USA. Before he could not to get one. He will go from making 25,000 a year to making 60,000 plus a year to start. There would be a lot of room to make more.

[2tallbill]

As Ukrainian women can get red carpet treatment, free visas, and "refugee" status pretty much anywhere in the West now, it strikes me that any who wanted to leave will have done so already. So you might have more luck meeting them in London, Barcelona or Amsterdam.

Some men like to do the white knight rescue mission thing, and Ukraine in its present state is probably fertile hunting ground for those blokes. Most will probably get scammed as always, but still.

Bill's advice/rules for newbies:
1. Never pursue a desperate woman as they tend to act desperately. Once the
desperation situation is over they will return to norm.
2. If you want to help women, donate to a real verifiable charity.
3. Don't be surprised if you attract gold diggers if you use your wallet as bait.
4. FSUW are not for entry level daters. If you are considered gullible by your
friends (ask them) the FSU is not for you.

Russia or Ukraine, finding a decent woman with good values is key. And as they are the same people, where you search is probably less important than how you search and how you filter information. If I were doing this today, I'd likely focus on Russia, Belarus and the Stans, but not rule Ukraine out entirely.

All the above is solid gold advice, you should write a book!
Oh wait, you did

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0955687403/?tag=r0be2e-20

[Markje]

I went with Yana to the street market a number of times. They would tell us the price up front and offer a discount if we bought several pieces. We never haggled. Maybe it is Markje argumentative and prejudice behavior toward anything Ukrainian might have something to do with it.

Oh I am not prejudiced at all against Ukraine. I just tell them how I see them. Perhaps you see it more with rose-colored-glasses because I rather doubt you ever visitted Russia.

Full disclosure: My wife lived in Ukraine (Almost all her life) before emigrating to Netherlands.

[2tallbill]

Bill's advice/rules for newbies:
2. If you want to help women, donate to a real verifiable charity.

I want to expand on this. If you want to go to Ukraine to do charity work,
go do it. Help everyone. Don't get romantically involved with the charity
cases. Don't bang the girl you are giving the charity to.

HOWEVER if you take a liking to another charity worker then by all means
pursue her.

If you are a believer who goes to your church regularly. Get your church involved.
If you are a _____________ name of church here and if they have a branch in
______________ name of FSU city. Then go ahead and ask your minister to have
 the local minister introduce you.

You are a hundred times more likely to find a good girl in a church than a bar
or (probably) an agency.

Udachi!

Bill

[AvHdB]

As Ukrainian women can get red carpet treatment, free visas, and "refugee" status pretty much anywhere in the West now, it strikes me that any who wanted to leave will have done so already. So you might have more luck meeting them in London, Barcelona or Amsterdam.

That might change soon enough. The Ukrainian regime is starting to push to get the 'refugees' back. Not just men, but women also. I have little doubt that at least a few governments will not be too unhappy to shift their long-term guests back to whence they came.

Are these people officially classified as refugees in the UK, or do they have some other status?

Mind you, I saw quite a few out and about in Spain a few months ago. Nowadays, if one hears Russian being spoken, chances are that they are not from Russia.

Odd how some will accept what ever poppycock is the flavour de jour. My wife’s son 19 years old picked up his new Ukraine passport with nary a word or question in den Haag. This happened last week. Yuliia returning from Київ is interviewing for a job in her adopted city as a statistician, depends on her Dutch language skills.

[Contrarian]

As Ukrainian women can get red carpet treatment, free visas, and "refugee" status pretty much anywhere in the West now, it strikes me that any who wanted to leave will have done so already. So you might have more luck meeting them in London, Barcelona or Amsterdam.

That might change soon enough. The Ukrainian regime is starting to push to get the 'refugees' back. Not just men, but women also. I have little doubt that at least a few governments will not be too unhappy to shift their long-term guests back to whence they came.

Are these people officially classified as refugees in the UK, or do they have some other status?

Mind you, I saw quite a few out and about in Spain a few months ago. Nowadays, if one hears Russian being spoken, chances are that they are not from Russia.

Odd how some will accept what ever poppycock is the flavour de jour. My wife’s son 19 years old picked up his new Ukraine passport with nary a word or question in den Haag. This happened last week. Yuliia returning from Київ is interviewing for a job in her adopted city as a statistician, depends on her Dutch language skills.

Are you living in the Netherlands now?

[andrewfi]

AvHdB, none other than the esteemed Zelensky has said as much. Catch up here: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/will-ukraines-refugees-want-to-go-back-home-a6a9832a

As usual, if i write something as a matter of fact you can bank on it. I'm human,but this is stuff I'm pretty good at. Feel free to argue about interpretation, try arguing black is white. But use facts.

The Ukraine regime wants to get back refugees, female and male. The government has already set up schemes to 'encourage' this process. Some European governments have already noted that they will not stand in the way of requests for repatriation of Ukraine's refugees but will not initiate such repatriations.

[Markje]

Odd how some will accept what ever poppycock is the flavour de jour. My wife’s son 19 years old picked up his new Ukraine passport with nary a word or question in den Haag.

Which means that the Ukrainian embassy can keep tabs on him and call him to active duty when the time comes.

I plan to revoke my son's Ukr. nationality as soon as his 16'th birthday is coming up.
(Its not like he needs it)

Mark.

[AvHdB]

Odd how some will accept what ever poppycock is the flavour de jour. My wife’s son 19 years old picked up his new Ukraine passport with nary a word or question in den Haag.

Which means that the Ukrainian embassy can keep tabs on him and call him to active duty when the time comes.

I plan to revoke my son's Ukr. nationality as soon as his 16'th birthday is coming up.
(Its not like he needs it)

Mark.

It seems a difficult issue when they do not even know where he is living.

[AvHdB]

AvHdB, none other than the esteemed Zelensky has said as much. Catch up here: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/will-ukraines-refugees-want-to-go-back-home-a6a9832a

As usual, if i write something as a matter of fact you can bank on it. I'm human,but this is stuff I'm pretty good at. Feel free to argue about interpretation, try arguing black is white. But use facts.

The Ukraine regime wants to get back refugees, female and male. The government has already set up schemes to 'encourage' this process. Some European governments have already noted that they will not stand in the way of requests for repatriation of Ukraine's refugees but will not initiate such repatriations.

Andrew the piece you reference is an essay. I assume you understand the difference between an essay and news? I will bank on my piggy bank, thank you very much.

There have been musings in the Rada about Ukraine citizens abroad, but there is no concrete legislation, yes certainly that can change. For the rest of this year though it looks like the status quo will stand.

[rosco]

funny I never experienced that. Just went to a store and paid the marked priced.

You'd need to be stupid to get ripped off in a Supermarket, what with marked pricing, barcodes and digital tills.

I found Ukraine to be more dodgy than both Russia or Belarus when it came to money. The Russians and especially the Belorussians I met on my travels were super transparent and respected you more as a tourist. Kiev less so but Zaporozhye, Dniper, Berdynsk and Donetsk was certainly bad. Taxi drivers were the worst, some restaurants/bars with hand written bills were shocking, lost baggage staff not finding luggage until Grivna's appeared and even the police at the side of the road stopping cars, openly looking for their xmas bonus. They demanded more from our taxi driver because I was foreign.....

Generally speaking it was all pocket money but if it happened at that level then I can only imagine the problems further up the chain. Even today officials been caught red handed, stealing free western money supposedly heading for good causes. In fact its probably worse than ever and Zelensky joked about this in his pre war comedy days!!

My experience was around 12-14 years ago but still, Ukraine was on the fiddle. The girl I was with openly acknowledged it and would often shrug her shoulders and say that's Ukraine. It's interesting that the only blokes pretending none of this stuff happens, are the ones most openly pro Ukraine at all costs in the conflict.

[Markje]

It seems a difficult issue when they do not even know where he is living.

Maybe yes , maybe no. I just take 0 chances when it comes to my family and any participations in a war where death is very real.

[andrewfi]

AvHdB, none other than the esteemed Zelensky has said as much. Catch up here: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/will-ukraines-refugees-want-to-go-back-home-a6a9832a

As usual, if i write something as a matter of fact you can bank on it. I'm human,but this is stuff I'm pretty good at. Feel free to argue about interpretation, try arguing black is white. But use facts.

The Ukraine regime wants to get back refugees, female and male. The government has already set up schemes to 'encourage' this process. Some European governments have already noted that they will not stand in the way of requests for repatriation of Ukraine's refugees but will not initiate such repatriations.

Andrew the piece you reference is an essay. I assume you understand the difference between an essay and news? I will bank on my piggy bank, thank you very much.

There have been musings in the Rada about Ukraine citizens abroad, but there is no concrete legislation, yes certainly that can change. For the rest of this year though it looks like the status quo will stand.

Ah, so Zelensky did not make a news conference in which he outlined some of the measures he envisaged to 'persuade' Ukrainians to return?

Thanks for that update. You might want to contact the WSJ to update them and let them know the writers had been making stuff up.

Of course, that's far from the only source of the same information, and in the weeks since the press conference, things have moved ahead.

You might want to get somebody to help you with the research into European governments that have made it clear that they are open to requests to repatriate Ukrainian citizens taking refuge in their countries at the request of the Ukrainian government.