Airline Points: Aeroplan, Avios, OneWorld, Cathay Asia Miles, etc.

[Guile]

IAD to FRA (Washington DC to Frankfurt) has both United and Lufthansa flights in business for 70k pts.  All the way to Christmas and NY.

For the members who do collect points already what programs are you with?  I have aeroplan and Amex MR.  I can transfer to others like KLM/Air France Flying Blue, British airways avios, Asia miles, Delta..but I have yet to do so.

[Guile]

For the American members there are 2 really good credit cards I recommend.  The Chase Aeroplan and Capital 1 Venture X.  Both give a huge welcome bonus of points, 75-100k I believe.  the Venture X also gives lounge access.  The bonus alone would get you 1 business class ticket overseas to Europe or Asia.

[B.B.]

BB, I'm impressed. you know all the airport and airline codes haha. you probably do tons of flying.  You got the Florida cruise ports all covered...That's where I send  the retired folks who need sun.  UA doesn't use MIA as a hub so as you mentioned you gotta go north.

Yep. Cruises are for the "newly wed and nearly dead." /heh

I have been a low-key road warrior for the past 20 years or so.  I used to live on the east coast and commute to California for work. 

Yep, MIA is an AA (eww) hub. I have flown DL, CM and TK from there.  LO never seems to be price competitive. 

I am seeing alot of good flights from EWR or IAD to LHR and AMS on UA for 60k aeroplan points 1 way business class.  I believe most of these flights are on the Polaris.  This is for the next few months.  Haven't checked spring/summer 2024.

Wow.  Polaris for that cheap is crazy low. BTW, thanks for all the info - you are a real asset to the board.

ORD Chicago is a sneaky good hub also.  The 2 middle eastern carriers Emirates/Etihad often use it and you can find even 1st class to UAE.

So far I haven’t been to UAE, although I dream of the Apartment on Etihad. /heh.  Never been a fan of ORD, it always seem to be DTW, only bigger to me.

LHR has a United/Air Canada Arrivals lounge with shower.  If you hold a UA or AC biz ticket you can get it.

Kool.  The last time LHR was a destination for me I booked the Hyatt Place for 5k points!  Sure it’s a transit hotel but that is DIRT CHEAP.  I got two nights plus a stay credit which was enough to re-up me for Hyatt Diamond (I still cannot bring myself to say “Globalist” – I guess “Bilderberger” was already taken.)

I will have to check out the Senator lounge next time if I have access.  It's only for LH biz travellers? I sadly don't have an Amex Platinum so no entry with cards.

So the LH lounge at T2 is for business/first class passengers on any *A airline, and you can access it (the front half anyway) with *Gold.  There is also a “Senator Lounge” in the back that you can access either by being an LH Senator or by having a business/1st ticket.  It’s not really any different from the front part, only it’s likely to be a bit less crowded.

An Amex Plat wouldn’t help you with LH lounge at all; that’s only for DL lounges, Escape Lounges and Centurion Lounges.  If you have Priority Pass, you can access the Plaza Premium Lounge (they also have an arrivals lounge near the AC arrivals lounge) or the Big Smoke Taphouse & Kitchen, both in T2.

For the American members there are 2 really good credit cards I recommend.  The Chase Aeroplan and Capital 1 Venture X.  Both give a huge welcome bonus of points, 75-100k I believe.  the Venture X also gives lounge access.  The bonus alone would get you 1 business class ticket overseas to Europe or Asia.

If you are talking signup bonuses only, then yes.  Both of those do come with a spend requirement to hit the points.  Not unachievable, but worth mentioning.  And the Venture X is a premium card so the annual fee is $395.  The AC card is better for Canadians I think, although there are routings I can take out of FLL. 

Venture X has 2 lounges – DFW and IAD.  Same for Chase Sapphire – BOS and HKG.  More coming for both, but right now, Amex is WAAAAAY out in front of them.  In fairness, Venture X does come with Plaza Premium and Priority Pass access, but those aren’t always that great – ever time I would go into the BA lounge at JFK, the Alaska Lounge next door would have a “Not Accepting Priority Pass” sign out front.  I never once saw it not there.  I am sure Chase has smth, but I haven’t looked it up.

Where To Credit shows you the best options for crediting your miles within an alliance.  One thing to be aware of is that United – and they are not alone in this – limits how many PQP you can earn on partner flights not booked through UA.  So if I book a LOT flight via UA, I will get the full complement of PQPs; if I book it via LOT, I get mileage/6 and subject to an absolute cap of (IIRC) 1500.  So for UA folks, if you are booking business class across the pond on LOT it is FAR better to find a routing that you can book on United’s website.  Oh, for UA’s grown-up partners, like LH, it’s mileage/5. 

Another thing to consider with credit cards is that the often come with travel insurance.  Delayed?  Canceled?  Lost bags?  The card you used to book the ticket may offer travel insurance.  Here is a list of 10 fromNerd Wallet.

B/B

[Manny]

I get the not wanting to be in debt part.  But here in North America if you have a low credit score or zero credit history you can't get a mortgage, loan, business or home equity line.

I have a side story about this from today. We sell online and spend maybe £10k a month with Royal Mail (like the USPS but here). Been using them for over a decade, they just take a direct debit from the bank quite often. Nice and simple.

But today I got this email:

We write with regard to your Royal Mail credit account and would like to thank you for your custom over the previous period. We regularly review our customer credit accounts against credit limits set and unfortunately, your credit scoring has dropped and Experian (credit agency) is advising that no credit should be offered.  Should you wish to contact Experian to discuss your current credit rating, you can call them on 0844 481 8888.

Based on your postings activities, your 5-week credit requirements are estimated to be £10,000.

Therefore, in order to allow you to continue with a credit account, we would require a merchant's deposit to be submitted to cover your full level of spend. The merchant's deposit payment is held on your account as a security payment and is returned back to you once your credit score improves or when you close your account with us. It is not used towards payment of your invoices, therefore all your invoices will still need to be paid in full by direct debit as they fall due.

The amount of deposit payable is dependent on the length of credit terms that you wish to continue with, therefore the options available to you are as follows:

You are currently on 30-day payment terms.

The details below show your personalised options available to rectify the issue:

Bank Guarantee or Merchants Deposit of £10,000 to maintain your current 30 day payment terms, Direct Debit method.
etc...........

So I called them up. It seems we have a "thin" credit file as we don't use any. So are thus not creditworthy. 

Eventually, I got through to a decision-maker in the accounting and credit control department. Apparently, we are on 30-day terms. Who knew? They just take cash from the bank each week and we get invoices in the mail we marry up is all I recall. I thought we paid weekly. I said I am not lodging £10k with them (basically forever, interest-free). We had a conversation about HNWIs, etc., she looked at our turnover and historical spend and commented that we had never had a refused bank payment in a decade. I pointed out DPD or Fedex would love our business. Shortly after, full service was restored. But it makes you think.

Later on, I went on Experian to look at our credit file. They wouldn't open me an account to access due to "lack of data". So now a code is coming in the mail or something. What bollox.

[andrewfi]

While I got my first credit card in several decades primarily for car rentals, I was cognisant of the type of issue you faced.

In part, it was why I ended up with a small collection of cards. I also put myself on the electoral roll.

When you finally get access to Experian you will probably find a lot of helpful info about boosting your credit rating that's appropriate to your case. Some things you might want to do, some things maybe not.

Having a mortgage seems to be a biggy and it's pretty much the only thing that stands between me and a perfect credit rating. In my experience, the better your rating the lower the interest on loans and credit cards. Having several bits of plastic also seems to help, especially if you don't actually use them very much. There's a 'bonus' if your credit usage is below 25% of the available credit.

I now have an app on my phone for tracking all this stuff. Using such an app is, to the best of my knowledge, giving away no more information than Experian or other agencies already have.

[B.B.]

Later on, I went on Experian to look at our credit file. They wouldn't open me an account to access due to "lack of data". So now a code is coming in the mail or something. What bollox.

Dunno about in the UK, but here I have access to my Experian and/or TransUnion reports through (at a minimum) BofA  and Chase.  You might have it through one of your banks as well.

Best,

B/B

[andrewfi]

Later on, I went on Experian to look at our credit file. They wouldn't open me an account to access due to "lack of data". So now a code is coming in the mail or something. What bollox.

Dunno about in the UK, but here I have access to my Experian and/or TransUnion reports through (at a minimum) BofA  and Chase.  You might have it through one of your banks as well.

Best,

B/B

In the UK one does not need to pay for access. One can have access for free direct from the agencies via website, email or app. No need to get the information through one's bank or other intermediary.

Of course, that means Experian et al are in a good position to act as intermediaries with credit card or similar offers. It's generally how I have added to my collection of cards. I get an email telling me my rating has gone down or up. I go take a shufti on my app and while I'm there I get to see all the good, pre-approved offers on the go.

[Manny]

Why do I need one? I don't need to borrow money for day-to-day things. I don't need credit to go to the supermarket or buy diesel for the car. Why do I want to pay next month for stuff when I can pay today with a debit card or cash? 

I do not carry credit card debt, but I only use cash for tips.  Why would I pay now, in 100 cent dollars, when I can pay in 30 days using 95 to 98 cent dollars and possibly get additional benefits?

Fair point.

From a business point of view, it costs money to take cards, and we need some cash through the door. Some of our wages are still done in cash as some people prefer it. It's illegal here to surcharge card payments so instead we offer trade counter customers 5% discount to pay in cash. People like that. There's a campaign here at the moment to "save cash". Banks can turn you off at any moment as Nigel Farage recently found out when he was de-banked. And many people are concerned a social credit score is being ushered in by stealth.

For example, Capital One's "Savor" card is 4% of at restaurants, whether that's McD's or Maison Trop Chere.  Right now I use my Amazon card for that because for October/November it gives 5% back at restaurants. 

For groceries, I use the Amex Blue Cash, which gives 6% back at supermarkets (and streaming services), and 3% back on ride shares, parking, trains, etc.

Gasoline?  My BofA visa card, which because I get an extra bonus because BofA owns Merrill where I have an IRA, I get 5.25% back on gas (and because I also use "Gas Buddy" sometimes they have deals also).

I ate at Classified in Newark Liberty Airport, which was delicious and I paid using United Miles.  Not the most effective redemption value, but I view them as a renewable resource.  So I had a most excellent steak, a drink and soup without laying out cash.

What strikes me there is how on earth do you remember which card or points system you are going to use to pay for what? And then you have to remember to pay all those cards every month.

Hotels are a real benefit also - you can rack up points to use for free nights (nice when I have a layover) or suite upgrades.  There have been weeks in Europe on vacation where I have spent $40 for the week for a hotel, and I don't mean hostels.  Just pay the local tax in cash and usually charge 1 drink to my room.  The Hyatt Regency for $5 a night cannot be beat.

This one I get. I use hotels.com (via Quidco for cash back) and for every ten nights you book, you get one free (up to a given value). That is simple to keep track of. My recent jaunt in Asia allowed wifey and me a night at the Grand Hotel in Birmingham this last weekend, and it cost just taxes like you said. Maybe £16 or something.

However, when I looked at the Shangri-la in HK for New Year, on hotels.com the suite I wanted wasn't available, and it was on their own site. On hotels.com it didn't include the (expensive) breakfast, and on their own site, it did. And on their own site, they have a points system where future bookings get cheaper. So I added my last booking on it and already have a voucher for "kids eat free" or something. And my next China trip might be cheaper if I choose them, and there's one right by the Canton Fair, so I'm liking that. Plus as a "circle" member, I get the exec lounge access (free wine and food). So that seems pretty worthwhile.

I also carry the Amex Platinum, which gives me free Global Entry (which comes with TSA Pre), free CLEAR, a discount with Hertz plus some other bennies that add up to more than the annual fee (which I pay using points).

I used to have an Amex platinum charge card. They promised it would get me into pretty much any airport lounge in the world. I never got into one with it. 

Making one additional payment to principal is supposed to drop a 30 year mortgage to 18 years, in effect, but I haven't looked at the math on that for a while.  I suppose paying 15 days early, which some folks do here, has the effect of suppressing interest also.  Back when I had a mortgage it was at 3.5% so less than even the "official" rate of inflation, and, as I was paying back in inflated dollars, no pressing need to make additional payments, but the idea itself is solid.

We had a 25-year one, overpaying has dropped it by about five years. Interest was cheap, 2.49% or something, but now it is 5% plus, it looks like expensive money to me. I put 40% down when we bought so the balance is only mid-five figures now. When the deal renews there is a penalty-free option to pay all or reduce. I'd rather pay it and not pay hundreds a month. It's also a security thing. If I drop off the twig, wifey is mortgage-free. No mortgage also allows the property to be transferred into a company, trust, or other structure to avoid inheritance tax in the future.

[Manny]

This is a subject that has cropped up often over the years. I know a lot of Americans especially are big on points. I remember when Shakespear came over he used his points and had first-class tickets.

I think Shakey could run them through his business somehow.  Or, like me, he traveled a lot for work.

Yes, he sold (a lot of) crop insurance for a big company so got to travel a lot. He also went to golf things all over the place, so I think travelled domestically quite a bit. I remember him rolling through arrivals with about six cases. We typically get one. 

It is still useful to know the ins and outs, but the golden age of this is kind of in the rearview mirror now.

I kinda wondered if this was the case.

I prefer business even domestically (in the US) but it's got the broader seat as opposed to intra-Europe flights where it's still a 3x3 configuration with the middle seat blocked.  My shoulders have been broader than a coach seat since I was 13 or so, so I dislike even premium economy.

Andrew touched on this before. A business associate once paid for my family and me to fly to the US to do a deal. We got "first class" on, I think American Airlines. It was a chrome-looking plane anyway. It was quite nice, with seats 1A, B, and C, but compared to any Asian or Arab airlines it was nothing like first class. It was a nice big seat, with some legroom, and some OK food, but I'd call it in hindsight premium economy. This is what I encountered on Swiss Air "business class", but take Cathay or Hainan or even BA, and it's a flat bed, big screen TV, and a nice cubicle.

For flights on US airlines, I price options on Google Flights and then book accordingly on the airline sites.

Andrew said the same a few posts back, so I'll do that in the future. Strong info.

When traveling to Europe, I find the cheapest flight over the pond and then fly intra-Europe separately (usually I am making 2 or 3 stops depending on which of my friends are home, so in October, I flew into Stockholm, and then bounced to Warsaw and then Kosice.  In August it was Warsaw, Berlin and then London.  I had booked an open jaw (in to Warsaw, Back from London) and then booked LOT to Berlin and BA (who, oddly, seemed to have the only non-stops) from Berlin to London. 

I've done that with multi-stop flights, or when wifey was in Russia and I was in Estonia, or if we have a few days in one place. I did it for her last trip to Russia and I've done it again for HK at New Year. It's OK, but the wheels fall off if the connection is tight and a flight is late or an airline loses your luggage.

I have been using LOT mostly these days because they have been the best price point, but they also go everywhere.  Same with Turkish.

I've always liked the Polish airlines. Turkish I've not used personally so much. But I've done some of wifey's flights with them and she likes them. They seem to have cornered the fights into Russia via Turkey.

it is VASTLY better to use a credit card here than a debit card.  If you have to reverse a charge, you are fighting to get your own money back, as opposed to making it the credit card company's problem.  Much better/safer that way.

That's very much an American thing. Don't get me started on that.

It's harder in Europe, you have to prove an actual scam pretty much. As an online seller, I tend to exclude US buyers from our sites for the chargebacks alone (or add a 15% load to the shipping as insurance). And that's a shame, really. Too many use chargeback instead of customer service. And it costs the seller money and time. And it's usually over non-issues like an item isn't in the USPS system after a few days - well duh, US customs sits on stuff for over a week. Sometimes two. We often get US buyers to pay directly to the bank for bigger orders in advance to avoid the chargebacks. If they won't do that, buy elsewhere and chargeback on someone else. I'd love to do more business with the US, but the chargeback culture makes it really difficult. Even for the most honest seller, chargebacks are a huge obstacle to doing business in the US. Throw Amazon into the mix and you need to write off 50% to their fees, scams, item not received fraud, and chargebacks. I've never sold on US Amazon (I have a pal that does). You might as well give the stuff away after fees, fraud and chargebacks.

[Contrarian]

I get the not wanting to be in debt part.  But here in North America if you have a low credit score or zero credit history you can't get a mortgage, loan, business or home equity line.

I have a side story about this from today. We sell online and spend maybe £10k a month with Royal Mail (like the USPS but here). Been using them for over a decade, they just take a direct debit from the bank quite often. Nice and simple.

But today I got this email:

We write with regard to your Royal Mail credit account and would like to thank you for your custom over the previous period. We regularly review our customer credit accounts against credit limits set and unfortunately, your credit scoring has dropped and Experian (credit agency) is advising that no credit should be offered.  Should you wish to contact Experian to discuss your current credit rating, you can call them on 0844 481 8888.

Based on your postings activities, your 5-week credit requirements are estimated to be £10,000.

Therefore, in order to allow you to continue with a credit account, we would require a merchant's deposit to be submitted to cover your full level of spend. The merchant's deposit payment is held on your account as a security payment and is returned back to you once your credit score improves or when you close your account with us. It is not used towards payment of your invoices, therefore all your invoices will still need to be paid in full by direct debit as they fall due.

The amount of deposit payable is dependent on the length of credit terms that you wish to continue with, therefore the options available to you are as follows:

You are currently on 30-day payment terms.

The details below show your personalised options available to rectify the issue:

Bank Guarantee or Merchants Deposit of £10,000 to maintain your current 30 day payment terms, Direct Debit method.
etc...........

So I called them up. It seems we have a "thin" credit file as we don't use any. So are thus not creditworthy. 

Eventually, I got through to a decision-maker in the accounting and credit control department. Apparently, we are on 30-day terms. Who knew? They just take cash from the bank each week and we get invoices in the mail we marry up is all I recall. I thought we paid weekly. I said I am not lodging £10k with them (basically forever, interest-free). We had a conversation about HNWIs, etc., she looked at our turnover and historical spend and commented that we had never had a refused bank payment in a decade. I pointed out DPD or Fedex would love our business. Shortly after, full service was restored. But it makes you think.

Later on, I went on Experian to look at our credit file. They wouldn't open me an account to access due to "lack of data". So now a code is coming in the mail or something. What bollox.

This is why you should get a credit card and use it occasionally. They do come in handy sometimes.

[Guile]

Don't you guys in Europe need a credit card to secure things online like flights, hotels, car rentals etc..?  My airline's website payment only takes a cc.  Probably the same for many others.  I don't know which ones accept a debit card online. 

Same with hotels if I go to europe and pre-book in advance.

[Guile]

It is still useful to know the ins and outs, but the golden age of this is kind of in the rearview mirror now.

I kinda wondered if this was the case.

I didn't know anything about buying flights in points before I started working at my company but I still feel we are in a good time for this.  Even my loyalty program has changed alot and the long term agents refer to this period as 2.0...pricing is higher for sure but so are the ways to earn points.  And availability is very good. 

I myself in 2 years have accumulated enough points to do 2-3 long haul trans-ocean business round trip flights, these are proper lie flat bed seats. Not the quasi "business".  And my spending is just normal daily stuff for food, gas, entertainment.  I have no business that I charge expenses on.  So many cards are offering great bonuses. 

I see flights SFO or LAX to DXB ( san fran, los angeles to Dubai) in business on Emirates for 110k pts.

The Etihad residences is over the top for 1st class.  I would even categorize it as beyond.  If you have the points it's a once in a lifetime thing but I don't feel the value of paying double, unless the flight is over 10 hours or you really want to splurge.

[Guile]

Wow.  Polaris for that cheap is crazy low. BTW, thanks for all the info - you are a real asset to the board.

No worries! Glad to give out info, same as when I help customers book and they are surprised they got such a good deal.

If you have any specific routes and dates you need send me a PM and I'll look into it.  That goes for anyone on the forum.  You'll need a loyalty points account with one of the airlines.

I mainly use Aeroplan and Star Alliance network.  I have Amex points also but have not transferred them to any program other than Aeroplan.

Or if you are considering signing up for a points account.  I would look at the credit card offers in your country and see which one has a good welcome bonus.  Factor in if there are any spend requirements to hit that bonus whether monthly or yearly.

[Guile]

Now with sanctions over Russian airspace the US and western European cities don't have direct flights to Russia.  You have to go through Istanbul or Dubai/Abu Dhabi.

Anyone planning to head to Russia in the near future?  I don't think i'll be going unless I get some crazy offer.  The problem is the ruble has take such a nosedive that unless I am paid in pounds or dollars it's not worth it.

Right now $1 US is about 90-100 rubles.  The bank system is another worry.  I don't know if my cards would work over there.  They shut off SWIFT transfers so I can't get paid via wire.  I'd have to carry thousands of rubles in cash like a smuggler haha.

[Manny]

Don't you guys in Europe need a credit card to secure things online like flights, hotels, car rentals etc..?  My airline's website payment only takes a cc.  Probably the same for many others.  I don't know which ones accept a debit card online. 

Same with hotels if I go to europe and pre-book in advance.

You typically pay in full on order. Either with a credit or debit card. Very occasionally there is an option to pay at the hotel, and for that, you might secure it with a credit card.

The only time you need one is a pre-authorisation swipe for car hire or at hotel reception to cover the room service, etc.

I've never encountered any website anywhere that only takes credit cards.

I don't know if my cards would work over there.

Visa and Mastercard and the like I don't think will work in Russia anymore. Everyone is using Mir cards there now.

[rosco]

Don't you guys in Europe need a credit card to secure things online like flights, hotels, car rentals etc..?  My airline's website payment only takes a cc.  Probably the same for many others.  I don't know which ones accept a debit card online. 

Same with hotels if I go to europe and pre-book in advance.

You typically pay in full on order. Either with a credit or debit card. Very occasionally there is an option to pay at the hotel, and for that, you might secure it with a credit card.

The only time you need one is a pre-authorisation swipe for car hire or at hotel reception to cover the room service, etc.

I've never encountered any website anywhere that only takes credit cards.

I can easily survive with a debit card alone and the only thing I owe is around £20k on a mortgage I plan on getting rid of, in the next 6 months.

That said, I do use credit card's to book hotels, flights, holidays etc. If a company goes bust or cancels a purchase, you're left fighting to get your hard earned back alone, paying with a debit card.

If it's paid via a credit card then their insurance covers the bill along with dodgy transactions etc. I'll pay via the card and clear it month end. The same goes for my business expenses but that used to work better when I would accrue a lump sum at the end of the year with interest paid on a balance saved.

I often wondered if I was missing out on points or fun tokens but I dont think its the same as the guys in the US.

[Manny]

I often wondered if I was missing out on points or fun tokens but I dont think its the same as the guys in the US.

That is my takeaway as well. I think it was different back when it was Air Miles (was it called?). The world and his wife seemed to be buying and selling them or scheming to acquire them

[andrewfi]

I often wondered if I was missing out on points or fun tokens but I dont think its the same as the guys in the US.

That is my takeaway as well. I think it was different back when it was Air Miles (was it called?). The world and his wife seemed to be buying and selling them or scheming to acquire them

I remember Air Miles, they were like the Green Shield stamps of the '90s! You could get them for almost any kind of purchase and redeem them for travel offers.

In my opinion, the UK and Europe in general are quite different from North America because the structure of our travel is very different. In the USA, distance alone means that flying is often a better option than driving, let alone the differences in infrastructure between Europe and the USA. Our journeys tend to be shorter, and we have across Europe a network of high-speed rail routes that make flying less attractive overall.

Those differences tend to reduce the incentive to get upgrades on flights, as I noted earlier.

A while ago, I had to travel between Lyon and Paris. My first thought was to fly. Bad idea. While the flight time was only about 60 minutes, the overall journey time was over 4 hours. The train took just two hours, and my departure and arrival points were in the city, which was very convenient. The train (TGV) was much cheaper, too.

This is what Skynet thinks about the differences between the travel and flight markets between Europe and the USA, which makes promotional 'miles' less attractive over here:

1. Size and Geography: Europe is geographically smaller and more densely populated than the USA. This means that destinations are generally closer together, reducing the need for air travel for short distances where trains or cars can be more convenient and efficient.

2. Rail Infrastructure: Europe has a highly developed and extensive rail network, with high-speed trains connecting major cities across the continent. This robust rail system often offers a faster, more convenient, and sometimes cheaper alternative to air travel, especially for short to medium distances.

3. Urban Public Transport Systems: European cities typically have well-developed public transport systems. This accessibility can reduce the need for car rentals or domestic flights when traveling within or between cities, compared to many U.S. cities where a car is often necessary.

4. Airline Market Structure: The airline market in Europe is characterized by a high presence of low-cost carriers, which often offer competitive pricing that can be more attractive than using airline miles. This competition can devalue the benefit of accumulating miles compared to regions with less aggressive airfare competition.

5. Cultural Preferences and Environmental Awareness: There is a strong cultural and policy push in Europe towards more environmentally sustainable modes of transportation. This environmental consciousness can influence travel choices, with a preference for trains over planes where feasible.

6. Travel Frequency and Distance: Americans tend to have fewer vacation days and often travel longer distances when they do travel, making long-haul flights (where miles can be more valuable) a more common choice. In contrast, Europeans might opt for shorter, more frequent trips, where the value of miles might not be as pronounced.

7. Airline Alliances and Partnerships: The structure and partnerships within airline alliances can differ, impacting the flexibility and value of miles. European airlines might have different redemption rules, blackout dates, and partner networks compared to U.S. carriers.

8. Regulatory Environment: The regulatory environment in Europe, including consumer protection laws and environmental regulations, can impact airline operations and fare structures, indirectly affecting the value proposition of airline miles.

These structural differences mean that while airline miles can still offer value in Europe, their utility and appeal might be less compared to the USA, where longer domestic flights and less robust alternatives make airline travel and thus airline miles more essential.

[Guile]

Air Miles was a big player back in the day but they have gone through bankruptcy and bought out by a big bank.  For points travelers now it is not a program that people tend to use.

andrew makes a good point.  In Europe places are so close there is no need to save up points for short flights.  You guys have all those budget carriers like Ryanair, easyjet that charge cheap prices.  London to Paris, Brussels or Amsterdam by train is very convenient.  When I was in Nice I'd just take the local train to Monaco, Cannes, or anywhere on the coast.  I could go to Italy too but never went that far.

In the USA even a short trip Los Angeles to San franc by train is over 10 hours.  Car is the fastest way usually.

The best value with points programs are the long haul international flights in business for far less than the equivalent cash ticket.  In Europe for flights under 4 hours I don't bother using points.

[shakespear]

The best value with points programs are the long haul international flights in business for far less than the equivalent cash ticket.  In Europe for flights under 4 hours I don't bother using points.

I agree completely.  Currently I have about 900,000 FF miles on American Airlines.  At one time I had 1.2 million.  Back when covid was an issue and the airlines were having serious cash flow problems American gave people the opportunity to buy miles at incredibly cheap prices.  Normally, FF miles are worth approximately $0.0175 each.  They offered them for sale for $0.0125 in bulk purchase obviously wanting to generate cash flow now in exchange for travel at a future date.  Last year I flew from RSW to LAX Business class for 75,000 miles ($937.50 my cost).  So long as I use my AA MasterCard once every 9 months the miles will never expire.

Keep an eye on FinnAir (AA partner),  Sometimes they offer super prices for business class trans atlantic travel.   

[Guile]

hey shakespear, I don't know much about AA's program as I rarely do continental US flights.  But it sounds like you got a nice chunk of points put to good use!

Never thought about Helsinki but will check it out...Finland is blocking their borders with Russia now, or not letting people through.

Question for the group. Is anyone planning to go to Russia in the near future and if so what route will you take?   I haven't thought of going back but if I do I'd have to transit through Dubai or Istanbul.. I believe Serbia has direct flights to Moscow also.

But all my previous connecting cities don't work due to Russia closing off airspace to the west.

[B.B.]

From a business point of view, it costs money to take cards

Right, but I am talking only on the consumer side.  I do know folks with their own businesses who maintain both personal and business cards to stack the bennies, but everyone has to decide what is right for them.

What strikes me there is how on earth do you remember which card or points system you are going to use to pay for what? And then you have to remember to pay all those cards every month.

So I carry a few cards in my wallet – my BofA cash rewards world mastercard, my Savor card, and my Amex Blue Cash – and right for now my Amazon Prime Visa card which is 5% back on restaurants until 30 November.   After that, I will sub in whatever hotel card I want to build points with.
The only card that regularly comes out of my wallet is the Blue Cash card for when I am at the supermarket.  At the places I regularly visit, the appropriate card is already wired into the app.  Even for gas, if I am at a Wawa (the one local to me has the best gas prices near buy) it’s already wired in, and I activate the pump via the app, and that’s it.   
If there is no particular benefit to using a card, then I just use my BofA card because even if there is no special deal, I will get 3.5% cash back bc I keep a sufficient balance in my linked investment account to get an additional 75% bonus on top of the usual cashback.
As for remembering, it’s not more than 3-4 bills on the outside, and I typically enter expenses into a spreadsheet every couple of days.  Not complicated at all.

This one I get. I use hotels.com (via Quidco for cash back) and for every ten nights you book, you get one free (up to a given value). That is simple to keep track of. My recent jaunt in Asia allowed wifey and me a night at the Grand Hotel in Birmingham this last weekend, and it cost just taxes like you said. Maybe £16 or something.

Perfect.  I use Expedia or Booking.com if there is no other option.  I had an overnight at the Stockholm Airport and used Booking to book the Radison Blu, and I also linked that to my Raddison Blu account – no points but I did get a stay/day credit, which will be useful for the future.

Expedia does give the option of paying in cash on arrival, but I’d rather have the discount/cash back.

However, when I looked at the Shangri-la in HK for New Year, on hotels.com the suite I wanted wasn't available, and it was on their own site. On hotels.com it didn't include the (expensive) breakfast, and on their own site, it did. And on their own site, they have a points system where future bookings get cheaper. So I added my last booking on it and already have a voucher for "kids eat free" or something.

On Booking com after like 4 stays in a year that opens up free breakfasts in a lot of places.

Plus as a "circle" member, I get the exec lounge access (free wine and food). So that seems pretty worthwhile.

That’s a big reason I like the Hyatt in Kiev and the Warsaw Airport Renaissance – they each have good lounges.  If you have access you could stay at either place, never pay for a meal and eat VERY well.

I used to have an Amex platinum charge card. They promised it would get me into pretty much any airport lounge in the world. I never got into one with it. 

It comes with Priority Pass which can be hit or miss.  I used it mostly at the Kiev Airport Business Lounge.  It is more useful in out of the way places I think.

We had a 25-year one, overpaying has dropped it by about five years. Interest was cheap, 2.49% or something, but now it is 5% plus, it looks like expensive money to me. I put 40% down when we bought so the balance is only mid-five figures now. When the deal renews there is a penalty-free option to pay all or reduce. I'd rather pay it and not pay hundreds a month. It's also a security thing. If I drop off the twig, wifey is mortgage-free. No mortgage also allows the property to be transferred into a company, trust, or other structure to avoid inheritance tax in the future.

Makes sense.  IIRC, mortgages there are different than here.  Back when I had a mortgage it was at 3.5% fixed for 30 years, which was crazy good at that time.  Really I think it should have been criminal to offer ARMs back then but some people stretch for housing I think.

I remember him rolling through arrivals with about six cases. We typically get one. 

Good lord!  Was he moving house or smth?  I typically travel with a smallish backpack and a European sized rollaboard.  Sometimes I substitute a larger checked back for the rollaboard when needed, but about 50% of the time these days – the airlines are better at tracking them and I put a Air Tag in mine.

I kinda wondered if this was the case.

There is still value to be had, but the airlines have finally wised up and based everything off of spend – DL was the last legacy carrier not to do so (well they had a combination of miles and spend) and that is coming to an end.

A business associate once paid for my family and me to fly to the US to do a deal. We got "first class" on, I think American Airlines. It was a chrome-looking plane anyway.

It was AA then.  And domestic first isn’t anything like long-haul first.  AA did away with it anyway, a couple of years ago.

It was quite nice, with seats 1A, B, and C, but compared to any Asian or Arab airlines it was nothing like first class. It was a nice big seat, with some legroom, and some OK food, but I'd call it in hindsight premium economy. This is what I encountered on Swiss Air "business class", but take Cathay or Hainan or even BA, and it's a flat bed, big screen TV, and a nice cubicle.

Yep. DL has “suites” on some intl flights but not like, say, Singapore. 

It's OK, but the wheels fall off if the connection is tight and a flight is late or an airline loses your luggage.

Yep.  One has to account for that.  On the outbound it isn’t so bad, because they don’t like canceling those.  If I have a same day connection, I try to space it out a bit and if I have to spend a few hours in the lounge for some peace of mind, ok.  Coming back I usually plan on overnighting, which is why I like to use Warsaw as a hub – the Renaissance is adjacent to the airport (there is a Courtyard also), and it’s literally a 10-15 minute walk from my room to security.  Last trip I was in Stockholm and there are 2-3 hotels right at Arlanda that are easy walks to security.
The last couple of trips to Ukr, I would fly into Kosice and then cross at Uzhgorod.  Much shorter wait at the Slovak border for some reason, most likely because the proximity of the Polish border to Lvov, so people go there. 

I have had to make a couple of changes to flights, ex. adding a flight from Kosice to Warsaw to a WAW to ARN itinerary because I wound up crossing at Uzhgorod again instead of Hrebrenne-Rava Ruska or Krakovets.  Easily done via Expedia or the airline’s website.

I've always liked the Polish airlines. Turkish I've not used personally so much. But I've done some of wifey's flights with them and she likes them. They seem to have cornered the fights into Russia via Turkey.

The food on Turkish, while not always recognizable, is usually delish! 

That's very much an American thing. Don't get me started on that.

Ok, I won’t. 

B/B

[Contrarian]

Sounds great B/B, any chance that you've been to a lounge featuring the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, like this time in Hong Kong?

[Manny]

Now, that's one thing I do like about America. 

[rosco]

Now, that's one thing I do like about America. 

I'm surprised its not been cancelled yet.

In Europe we've seen cheer leaders and grid girls being sacked and cancelled for their own good......by handwringing progressives.