The GOP Debate

[Texan77]

Yea they are the only ones likely to get elected. So, they are likely not to survive and we
are going to get four more years of Biden.

I'll bite, give me your reasoning (if you can).

Your candidate choices are too pleasing to the far right and will not pick up middle ground voters.

[Contrarian]

https://rumble.com/v3hhec2-tucker-carlson-visits-argentina-documents-how-politicians-money-printing-cr.html

[2tallbill]

Your candidate choices are too pleasing to the far right and will not pick up middle ground voters.

Please name a far right stance held by Ron DeSantis.
 
Please name a far right stance held by Vivek Ramaswamy.

Do you think you understand what a far right stance is? Can you name three far right
stances?

[Contrarian]

Both candidates you mentioned have taken money from bad people.

They're both tainted, as are all political candidates who make it to the national stage.

[Contrarian]

The GOP debate?

There isn't a two-party system in America, it's now the Uni-party.

Always marching us towards a totalitarian state. 

[2tallbill]

Both candidates you mentioned have taken money from bad people.

They're both tainted, as are all political candidates who make it to the national stage.

There are no pure angels running for public office. Thinking there is will lead to disappointment.
I am a skeptic's skeptic.

Vivek Ramaswarmy
https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=vivek+ramaswamy

Ron DeSantis
https://www.opensecrets.org/officeholders/ron-desantis/summary?cycle=2022&id=17657831

[Jonas!]

I don't like that the republicans are so hawkish sounding regarding Mexico.   The drug problem in the US is our own responsibility.  Why do we have to pretend and try to shift the blame to countries like Mexico.  I hear a lot of republicans talking about taking personal responsibility (Which I agree with).  Seems hypocritical, when the 'exceptional' nation itself refuses to rightfully take responsibility for its drug problem. 

  The supply would dry right up if not for the insatiable demand.  It is our society that is ill.     My own attitude is rather hands off.   We have people that decide they want to use drugs and sleep on the streets and die of overdoses.  If they don't want get help which is available, then they are welcome to suffer whatever consequence is appropriate.  Law enforcement needs to do a better job of keeping them out of the productive citizens way, by either prison, institution, drug treatment, or death.  How ever many billion it would take to improve this situation it would probably be a lot less than the 100 or 200 billion we are about to spend in Ukraine, to 'weaken Russia'. 
Jonas! 

[2tallbill]

We have people that decide they want to use drugs and sleep on the streets and die of overdoses.  If they don't want get help which is available, then they are welcome to suffer whatever consequence is appropriate.  Law enforcement needs to do a better job of keeping them out of the productive citizens way, by either prison, institution, drug treatment, or death. 

You have just identified the left side of the problem. The lefty elected officials will not allow law enforcement
to do their job, they will not allow them to arrest people who deficate in the street or commit robberies
repeatedly to pay for their drug habits or that trespass on private property. They will not prosecute.

They will not allow drug addicts to go to prisons or institutions. The left is the biggest part of the problem
and that is who you will vote to represent you.


U.S. provided $320 million a year in aid to Mexico back in 2017. It's easily double that now.

According to your political theories, we should not ask them to lift a single finger for that money?
Maybe we should not give them a single cent in 2024 so we can use the money for the drug addicts.
Maybe we should use the money to house illegals who commit additional crimes in our prisons.

If that was your suggestion, I would agree to it.

One in five inmates in federal prison are foreign-born, and more than 90 percent of those are in the
United States illegally.

[Jonas!]

We have people that decide they want to use drugs and sleep on the streets and die of overdoses.  If they don't want get help which is available, then they are welcome to suffer whatever consequence is appropriate.  Law enforcement needs to do a better job of keeping them out of the productive citizens way, by either prison, institution, drug treatment, or death. 

You have just identified the left side of the problem. The lefty elected officials will not allow law enforcement
to do their job, they will not allow them to arrest people who deficate in the street or commit robberies
repeatedly to pay for their drug habits or that trespass on private property. They will not prosecute.

They will not allow drug addicts to go to prisons or institutions. The left is the biggest part of the problem
and that is who you will vote to represent you.


U.S. provided $320 million a year in aid to Mexico back in 2017. It's easily double that now.

According to your political theories, we should not ask them to lift a single finger for that money?
Maybe we should not give them a single cent in 2024 so we can use the money for the drug addicts.
Maybe we should use the money to house illegals who commit additional crimes in our prisons.

If that was your suggestion, I would agree to it.

One in five inmates in federal prison are foreign-born, and more than 90 percent of those are in the
United States illegally.

highlighted line shows a baseless and gross mischaracterization of my view.   I don't feel like even addressing/defending anything further until you admit you made it up, so we can start fresh.   

Jonas!   

[2tallbill]

We have people that decide they want to use drugs and sleep on the streets and die of overdoses.  If they don't want get help which is available, then they are welcome to suffer whatever consequence is appropriate.  Law enforcement needs to do a better job of keeping them out of the productive citizens way, by either prison, institution, drug treatment, or death. 

You have just identified the left side of the problem. The lefty elected officials will not allow law enforcement
to do their job, they will not allow them to arrest people who deficate in the street or commit robberies
repeatedly to pay for their drug habits or that trespass on private property. They will not prosecute.

They will not allow drug addicts to go to prisons or institutions. The left is the biggest part of the problem
and that is who you will vote to represent you.


U.S. provided $320 million a year in aid to Mexico back in 2017. It's easily double that now.

According to your political theories, we should not ask them to lift a single finger for that money?
Maybe we should not give them a single cent in 2024 so we can use the money for the drug addicts.
Maybe we should use the money to house illegals who commit additional crimes in our prisons.

If that was your suggestion, I would agree to it.

One in five inmates in federal prison are foreign-born, and more than 90 percent of those are in the
United States illegally.

highlighted line shows a baseless and gross mischaracterization of my view.   I don't feel like even addressing/defending anything further until you admit you made it up, so we can start fresh.   

Jonas!

The only thing that I might have gotten wrong is that you vote for people on the left.
If you are not going to vote for them, then I will happily say that I am wrong and
totally misunderstand how you might vote or tend to vote.

What is your theory on leaving Mexico alone? I assumed probably too much what you meant by that.

[Contrarian]

Matt Gaetz brings a motion to dismiss Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-speakership/index.html

[Jonas!]

We have people that decide they want to use drugs and sleep on the streets and die of overdoses.  If they don't want get help which is available, then they are welcome to suffer whatever consequence is appropriate.  Law enforcement needs to do a better job of keeping them out of the productive citizens way, by either prison, institution, drug treatment, or death. 

You have just identified the left side of the problem. The lefty elected officials will not allow law enforcement
to do their job, they will not allow them to arrest people who deficate in the street or commit robberies
repeatedly to pay for their drug habits or that trespass on private property. They will not prosecute.

They will not allow drug addicts to go to prisons or institutions. The left is the biggest part of the problem
and that is who you will vote to represent you.


U.S. provided $320 million a year in aid to Mexico back in 2017. It's easily double that now.

According to your political theories, we should not ask them to lift a single finger for that money?
Maybe we should not give them a single cent in 2024 so we can use the money for the drug addicts.
Maybe we should use the money to house illegals who commit additional crimes in our prisons.

If that was your suggestion, I would agree to it.

One in five inmates in federal prison are foreign-born, and more than 90 percent of those are in the
United States illegally.

highlighted line shows a baseless and gross mischaracterization of my view.   I don't feel like even addressing/defending anything further until you admit you made it up, so we can start fresh.   

Jonas!

The only thing that I might have gotten wrong is that you vote for people on the left.
If you are not going to vote for them, then I will happily say that I am wrong and
totally misunderstand how you might vote or tend to vote.

What is your theory on leaving Mexico alone? I assumed probably too much what you meant by that.

I see where you came up with the yearly 320 million dollar figure, although most other links put it around 45-50 million yearly. 

The post I made was mainly focused on America's irresponsibility with the drugs.  It is our society that has the sickness, and it is our own faults.    Drugs are not going to stop flowing...one way or another.   I'm sure other regions would be delighted if we bombed Mexico, as then they could step in and be the main supplier.   Trying to blame Mexico is our way of deflecting responsibility from ourselves.   On a national level that is what we do.   There are many things we can do within our own borders if we were actually serious regarding drugs.  I think the government is mostly fine with the situation though, they probably think it mostly eliminates or pacifies the dregs of society. Sometimes the problem gets too big and intrudes on the rest of society, and the government is forced to do something.  I'd like that something to be harsher enforced laws that don't necessarily target drug use itself, but all the other crimes those drug users commit. 

Insofar as Mexico is concerned, I get the feeling our aid is given to indirectly benefit our own society in some way...as it should be.  We may couch it for the masses in some phony way like we are trying to be helpful or out of generosity, but I don't believe it and I would suggest that neither does most of Mexico.   In some cases, church groups give benefit out of pure altruism. 

[Jonas!]

Matt Gaetz brings a motion to dismiss Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-speakership/index.html

I have been no fan of 'the squad' on the right wing for some of their stances, but I do see that there is a need to have them as part of the group.  As political outsiders at least they mostly think they are doing the right thing...more so than the insiders.  In our government it isn't ever really about what is 'right' or 'wrong' it is about advancing interests, and it isn't the interests of the regular people.  Anyone who thinks America is about 'a shining city on the hill' is deluding themselves.  As a whole, our society isn't 'exceptional' and not entitled to any more than what we contribute.  We best get aligned with reality.   

Jonas! 

[Contrarian]

Matt Gaetz brings a motion to dismiss Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-speakership/index.html

Quote

"Gaetz said Monday that he has “enough Republicans” to either push McCarthy from the speakership or make him cut a deal with Democrats to remain in power.

“I have enough Republicans where at this point next week, one of two things will happen. Kevin McCarthy won’t be the speaker of the House, or he’ll be the speaker of the House working at the pleasure of the Democrats. And I’m at peace with either result, because the American people deserve to know who governs them,” he told CNN’s Manu Raju.

McCarthy is at risk of losing five or more Republicans on an expected motion to vacate the speaker’s chair, more defections than he can afford to lose – meaning he is certain to need Democratic votes to survive, according to sources familiar with the matter."

[Contrarian]

Matt Gaetz brings a motion to dismiss Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-speakership/index.html

I have been no fan of 'the squad' on the right wing for some of their stances, but I do see that there is a need to have them as part of the group.  As political outsiders at least they mostly think they are doing the right thing...more so than the insiders.  In our government it isn't ever really about what is 'right' or 'wrong' it is about advancing interests, and it isn't the interests of the regular people.  Anyone who thinks America is about 'a shining city on the hill' is deluding themselves.  As a whole, our society isn't 'exceptional' and not entitled to any more than what we contribute.  We best get aligned with reality.   

Jonas!

Your statement is contradictory.

In the first place, they are not "right wing". That's a typical liberal way of slandering middle of the road sane people who want government spending to be brought under control.

You yourself admit the war in Ukraine and the money we are spending on it is absurd. Especially paying pensions for them, when our own people are suffering.

A majority of Americans want our financial support of that war to end. A majority want many other things, which Matt Gaetz and company stand for. Those are sane, middle of road Americans.

McCarthy is a RINO and very weak. He got nothing the last time except for empty promises, all of which will be or were already broken.

[Jonas!]

Matt Gaetz brings a motion to dismiss Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-speakership/index.html

I have been no fan of 'the squad' on the right wing for some of their stances, but I do see that there is a need to have them as part of the group.  As political outsiders at least they mostly think they are doing the right thing...more so than the insiders.  In our government it isn't ever really about what is 'right' or 'wrong' it is about advancing interests, and it isn't the interests of the regular people.  Anyone who thinks America is about 'a shining city on the hill' is deluding themselves.  As a whole, our society isn't 'exceptional' and not entitled to any more than what we contribute.  We best get aligned with reality.   

Jonas!

Your statement is contradictory.

In the first place, they are not "right wing". That's a typical liberal way of slandering middle of the road sane people who want government spending to be brought under control.

You yourself admit the war in Ukraine and the money we are spending on it is absurd. Especially paying pensions for them, when our own people are suffering.

A majority of Americans want our financial support of that war to end. A majority want many other things, which Matt Gaetz and company stand for. Those are sane, middle of road Americans.

McCarthy is a RINO and very weak. He got nothing the last time except for empty promises, all of which will be or were already broken.

There may well be contradictions, there is no obligation for anyone to have a straight line liberal or conservative position.
While I support Gaetz's position on Ukraine, I don't agree with his 'bombing Mexico' position which I'd say is far from sane or middle of the road.   

Be that as it may, his voice is one of many, and I like that he gums up the machine on some of these issues. 

Jonas! 

[Contrarian]

buh bye! 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2023/oct/03/mccarthy-speaker-republicans-trump-trial-biden-live-updates

[Contrarian]

Jim Jordan announces he will run for Speaker of the House. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jim-jordan-speaker-of-the-house-kevin-mccarthy/

[Contrarian]

Nancy Pelosi whines about tradition after being told to vacate an office.

https://www.businessinsider.com/evicting-pelosi-office-mchenry-first-moves-house-speaker-mccarthy-ousting-2023-10

[2tallbill]

I see where you came up with the yearly 320 million dollar figure, although most other links put it around 45-50 million yearly. 

I haven't been able to find anything from the US government.

This is the USA today from 2017 $320 million
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/26/us-aid-320-million-mexico-wall-trump-specialists-backfire/97103024/

Here is something that say's $72 million
https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country/#mexico

Here is one that says 179.7 million
https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-receive-the-most-aid-from-the-us/

Here is one that says $68.58 million
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country

[2tallbill]

As a whole, our society isn't 'exceptional' and not entitled to any more than what we contribute.  We best get aligned with reality.   

Jonas!

We have 5-10 thousand people per day that enter the USA illegally for a better life.
That doesn't mean that we should treat anyone as if they are inferior to us.

[Jonas!]

As a whole, our society isn't 'exceptional' and not entitled to any more than what we contribute.  We best get aligned with reality.   

Jonas!

We have 5-10 thousand people per day that enter the USA illegally for a better life.
That doesn't mean that we should treat anyone as if they are inferior to us.

Many of those people are doing America's work...and their offspring as well. 
It seems to be that when we sanction a nation south of the border and make their people's lives difficult, the reason is to funnel their people here into the US illegally.  I know the sanctions aren't because our government actually cares about the people of these countries, that is just said to try to pacify the masses. 

Jonas!