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Author Topic: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev  (Read 396 times)

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Online Markje

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USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« on: August 03, 2023, 07:07:28 AM »
Markje,

Here is some information that provides decent context and refers to specific dates and periods of time.  Hope it helps you.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

So lets see: Russia/Nato membership happened in :
Quote from: gwu.edu

The first concrete assurances by Western leaders on NATO began on January 31, 1990, when West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher opened the bidding with a major public speech at Tutzing, in Bavaria, on German unification.

Russian state happened in:
1990-1991 ,


So my initial hypothesis is entirely correct, those discussions were part of the founding principles of Russia by its -then- future president Gorbachov.

It would have been nicer BC, if you had written: Yes mark, I completely agree with you, here's an additional info to back it up, instead of your reply which insinuates I was wrong somehow.
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Online BC

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2023, 08:53:12 AM »
Markje,

Here is some information that provides decent context and refers to specific dates and periods of time.  Hope it helps you.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

So lets see: Russia/Nato membership happened in :
Quote from: gwu.edu

The first concrete assurances by Western leaders on NATO began on January 31, 1990, when West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher opened the bidding with a major public speech at Tutzing, in Bavaria, on German unification.

Russian state happened in:
1990-1991 ,


So my initial hypothesis is entirely correct, those discussions were part of the founding principles of Russia by its -then- future president Gorbachov.

It would have been nicer BC, if you had written: Yes mark, I completely agree with you, here's an additional info to back it up, instead of your reply which insinuates I was wrong somehow.



The Alma-Ata Protocols removed any doubt that the Soviet Union no longer existed "as a subject of international law and geopolitical reality" (in the words of the Belovezha Accords' preamble), since 11 of the 12 remaining republics had declared that the Soviet Union had dissolved. The signatories preemptively accepted the resignation of Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, who told CBS News that he would resign when he saw the CIS was a reality.[3] Gorbachev resigned on 25 December, and the Soviet of the Republics of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR voted the Soviet Union out of existence on 26 December. (1991)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alma-Ata_Protocol


Read the interview with Gorbachev on this topic.  It does not support your hypothesis at all.

https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html

I have no idea what you mean by: "Russia by its -then- future president Gorbachov."  He was the last president of USSR but not the first president of the Russian Federation.  Makes no difference really, just trying to figure out this bit of wacky logic you are using.






Online Markje

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2023, 10:13:34 AM »
blablabla....

Russia in its current stateform did not exist, and the USSR ceased to exist. Care to guess what came in between? Hint: It had Gorbachev as its first and only president. Yeltsin became the first president of Russia in its current form.

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Online AvHdB

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2023, 12:31:58 PM »
blablabla....

Russia in its current stateform did not exist, and the USSR ceased to exist. Care to guess what came in between? Hint: It had Gorbachev as its first and only president. Yeltsin became the first president of Russia in its current form.

There was an entity called the RSFSR, as I recall it was neither fish or fowl. The entire region was in deep disarray. M. Gorbachev was the de-facto leader and survived a quasi coup attempt. The alphabet soup country ceased to exist on December 25/26.

Must admit I can not help but be amused that V. Putin complains about the transfer of power and governments control in Київ.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online BC

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2023, 09:25:57 PM »
blablabla....

Russia in its current stateform did not exist, and the USSR ceased to exist. Care to guess what came in between? Hint: It had Gorbachev as its first and only president. Yeltsin became the first president of Russia in its current form.

Do feel free to substantiate your assertion.

Online Markje

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2023, 09:23:35 AM »

Do feel free to substantiate your assertion.
No need, I will just be wasting my time.
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Offline Texan77

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2023, 09:33:24 AM »


Russia in its current stateform did not exist, and the USSR ceased to exist. Care to guess what came in between? Hint: It had Gorbachev as its first and only president. Yeltsin became the first president of Russia in its current form.

Yea but down deep the country is run by former KGB people and the system is slowing returning to what it always was.

3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.

Online BC

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2023, 11:15:30 AM »

Do feel free to substantiate your assertion.
No need, I will just be wasting my time.

Well, at least that's more honest than just hoping the topic will go away when you're at a loss for words or facts.

Online Markje

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2023, 11:54:01 AM »

Do feel free to substantiate your assertion.
No need, I will just be wasting my time.

Well, at least that's more honest than just hoping the topic will go away when you're at a loss for words or facts.

The first: Yes, the last, nope most certainly not. Your trolling prevents me from answering, its like throwing gold in the ocean.
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Online BC

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2023, 12:02:55 PM »

Do feel free to substantiate your assertion.
No need, I will just be wasting my time.

Well, at least that's more honest than just hoping the topic will go away when you're at a loss for words or facts.

The first: Yes, the last, nope most certainly not. Your trolling prevents me from answering, its like throwing gold in the ocean.

A request to substantiate or a question is not trolling. I take it your assertion of fact is untenable, or it's only your opinion.  Either is fine.

Online BC

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Re: USa/Nato trolling gorbachev
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2023, 12:04:28 PM »
Double post, can delete this.


 

 

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