Future of Ukraine.

[Orchid]

https://news.mail.ru/politics/

Medvedev is sure that Ukraine will disappear because no one needs it

MOSCOW, April 8. /TASS/. Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev believes that no one on the planet needs Ukraine and therefore it will not be. The politician published a post on this topic on Saturday on his VKontakte page.

The publication is entitled "Why will Ukraine disappear? Because no one needs it," then the post is divided into six points, in which Medvedev argues why the Ukrainian state does not need, respectively, Europe, the United States, Africa and Latin America, Asia, as well as Russia and, finally, Ukrainian citizens themselves (this is devoted to the final, sixth point).

In particular, speaking about the Old World, Medvedev notes that the prospect of planting "yolly Ukrainian blood-sucking parasites on the arthritis-crumped neck of a decrepit European Union" will be the final sunset "before the royal but impoverished from the degeneration of Europe". According to him, "strained support for the Nazi regime at the behest of the American mentor has already arranged a real financial and political hell for Europeans," and the consequences of this, including "unprofitable Russian sanctions", have already led to explosions of discontent in both Western and Eastern Europe. At the same time, Medvedev emphasizes, even Poles "do not perceive Ukraine as a normal country and periodically throw the topic of the Anschluss of the western regions."

In turn, Americans, according to the Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, will sooner or later ask from their establishment why it deals with an "unknown country" and not intra-American problems, "and then the capture of the Capitol in January 2021 will seem like scout games." "Radly Americans do not understand at all, in general, what "Ukraine" is and where "it" is located. Most of them will not show this "power" even on the map," Medvedev said. As for other parts of the world, as the Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation is convinced, "the hundreds of billions that the United States spends on senseless fighting somewhere in Ukraine would be enough for many programs aimed at the social development of Latin American and African states."

Also, "Asia does not need Ukraine", whose representatives see by Russian example "how color revolution technologies are being worked out to eliminate the largest competing powers", and "understand what scenario the collective West led by America has prepared for them in case of disobedience": "Help us cope with Russia, and then we will soon come to you." Moreover, Medvedev continued, the giant countries of the region already have enough problems with economic recovery after the end of the pandemic, so they refuse to support Ukraine in every possible way and limit Russia, "a country that is many times closer to the Asian powers geopolitically and which has historically established itself as a reliable strategic partner".

In Russia and Ukraine

Medvedev also called the current Ukrainian state "a understanding caused by the collapse of the USSR." "Minions of our compatriots live here, who have been bullied for many years by the Nazi Kiev regime. It is them that we protect during a special military operation, ruthlessly destroying the enemy," said the deputy chairman of the Security Council. "And that's why we don't need sub-Ukraine. We need Greater Russia," the politician wrote. As for the Ukrainians themselves, according to Medvedev, there are just over 20 million out of 45 million people left in the country, and the rest are "forced to live in constant anxiety and fear" and "want anywhere."

"No one on the planet needs such a Ukraine. That's why it will disappear," the author sums up.

[Texan77]

This is why there is a war in Ukraine. That is why so many Russians will end up dead until they learn Ukraine has a right to exist.  Ukraine on and off has been at War with Russia for over 400 years and this is just the next page in this long struggle. Hopefully this time Ukraine will succeed. If the rest of the world will not care about Ukraine, then why is Russia so concern about it.

[B.B.]

That's a lot of trash talk from a the mouthpiece of a guy whose vaunted army has gotten SMOKED by by a country that "nobody needs."

If "nobody needs" Ukraine then why is Russia bothering to fight over it?  By any metric, Russia's war has been an abject failure.  Their military has been exposed, Putin has done more to unite NATO than anyone since Lester B. Pearson, the Canadian diplomat who came up with the idea of NATO.  Finland and Sweden want in, meaning that Russia's border with NATO will DOUBLE, from the Barents Sea in the North to the Black Sea in the South.  Oops.  Russia is de-industrializing, and will be lucky if its worst-case scenario is simply being China's bitch.

B/B

[Manny]

By any metric, Russia's war has been an abject failure.

Not "Russia's war". This is a US conflict, as you well know.

But far from it anyway, a lot of you folks over t' pond don't realise Russia hasn't declared war; this is an SMO. They've used up old Soviet-era crap on it, and used mercs and convicts where possible. Almost no modern weaponry has been used, and almost non of their main army, air, or naval assets. This is going in gently with one hand behind their back. Why Kiev is still untouched and Z is still poncing about with various celebs doing selfies. Meanwhile, NATO is almost out of ammo and there is no thirst for western taxpayers to fund the US dollar rescue exercise that is the US hybrid war on Russia.

[rosco]

Meanwhile, NATO is almost out of ammo and there is no thirst for western taxpayers to fund the US dollar rescue exercise that is the US hybrid war on Russia.

I'd agree with that.

The news coverage has been very limited of late and I think that's for two reasons. The first, is that it's not going very well given all the cash and weapons we've collectively shipped into Ukraine. The headline hitting Ukrainian wins they like to report are few and far between and the only lie they seem happy to repeat is that ridiculous amounts of Russians have died yet on 10,000 Ukrainians.

The regime change, Russia's running out of weapons, Russias economy is shot or Putin has terminal cancer fabrications simply don't hold water anymore.

The second, as you correctly pointed out, is that we in the west are not only bored of it all with our limited attention spans and modern mindset but we simply cant afford to pump anymore money or assets into the operation. I predicted some time ago that Russia will wait it out until the charity dries up and they'll then fight Ukraine rather than NATO. The conflict has been moved from the front page of most news outlets and onto the regional sub category menus. The Ukrainian flag waving bunch have got bored and turned their attention to more pressing matters to virtue signal about like transgender debate or brown complicity. And folks are realising that hosting Ukrainians is rather expensive and not a good return on virtue signalling investment.

I think it's only a matter of time unless Ukraine successfully get on the front foot quickly. The problem there is, the attacker will always lose more assets as they leave themself exposed to dug in positions......as we've seen with Russian offensives. I'm sure Tex will tell us differently, if he's still with us that is.

[B.B.]

Not "Russia's war". This is a US conflict, as you well know.

Remind me, who invaded who?

But far from it anyway, a lot of you folks over t' pond don't realise Russia hasn't declared war; this is an SMO. They've used up old Soviet-era crap on it....

Are you sure that's the reason?

and used mercs and convicts where possible.

Ofc they do - there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for the war among draft-age Russian men.

Almost no modern weaponry has been used, and almost non of their main army, air, or naval assets.

Are you sure that it's not 97% of its available soldiers?  Because 97% seems like it's more than just mercs and convicts.

This is going in gently with one hand behind their back.

Presently, at this rate, they will be out of hands.

Meanwhile, NATO is almost out of ammo and there is no thirst for western taxpayers to fund the US dollar rescue exercise that is the US hybrid war on Russia.

I understand the mood of American taxpayers better than you do; the Dems are all in and most of the GOP.  Every so often one complains about "Ukraine....but muh TRAIN DERAILMENT!" but these are not either/or situations.

And if I were you, I would be more worried about Russia running out of munitions.

Russia has brought disaster upon itself.  Even recently that have expressed a willingness to negotiate - based on ridiculous terms ofc - which is antithetical to the Russian national character, given their crippling nationalism.  What does that tell you?  On some level they realize how badly they have f-cked up and they are looking for a way out.

B/B

[B.B.]

it's not going very well given all the cash and weapons we've collectively shipped into Ukraine.

The US has expended about 5% of its defense budget and has wiped out 40%+ Russia's pre-war tank fleet.  97% of Russia's soldiers are being utilized in Ukraine, and how well is Russia doing?  Pre-war we all heard about how bad-ass the Russian Army was.  Turns out, that just wasn't so.  Mr. "I Can Be In Kiev In a Week" is still nowhere near Kiev some 13+ months on.

You and Manny are having the same pipe dream.  Russia badly needs a way out.  The question is whether they are - or can be - mentally prepared for it.

B/B

[AvHdB]

https://news.mail.ru/politics/

Medvedev is sure that Ukraine will disappear because no one needs it

I am confident that the citizens of Ukraine do not agree with this statement. But it clearly shows Russia’s failed imperialism.

[Markje]

https://news.mail.ru/politics/

Medvedev is sure that Ukraine will disappear because no one needs it

I am confident that the citizens of Ukraine do not agree with this statement. But it clearly shows Russia’s failed imperialism.

And yet, Ukraine is quite visibly already falling apart even before Feb-22 , Crimea wanted out, Donbass wanted out.....

[rosco]

it's not going very well given all the cash and weapons we've collectively shipped into Ukraine.

The US has expended about 5% of its defense budget and has wiped out 40%+ Russia's pre-war tank fleet.  97% of Russia's soldiers are being utilized in Ukraine, and how well is Russia doing?  Pre-war we all heard about how bad-ass the Russian Army was.  Turns out, that just wasn't so.  Mr. "I Can Be In Kiev In a Week" is still nowhere near Kiev some 13+ months on.

You and Manny are having the same pipe dream.  Russia badly needs a way out.  The question is whether they are - or can be - mentally prepared for it.

B/B

It may well be 5% of your defence budget but Ukraine have pretty much used up your whole inventory of shells, portable tank busters and man pads (outside of what the US forces require to remain combat ready). It looks like they've been put to good use and they've taken out loads of Russian kit but it's now a depleted resource. If Russia keeps coming, Ukraine won't have the assets they had last year, to defend itself.

I posted an article on here a few weeks back, about the annual US production capacity for shells and stingers and how much you sent to Ukraine last year. It was about 8 years worth of production and its burnt through. That's why you're now leaning on South Korea to hand over their kit and get manufacturing for the war effort.

Meanwhile in Europe, most countries have about a weeks worth of kit for fighting (should it ever come our way), many less and it'll take time to re-stock. The cupboards are getting bare BB and it's not something that we can quickly replenish. The west simply hadn't planned for a war of this duration to happen anytime soon.

Russia have taken quite the hit but in true Russian style, they keep on coming and have plenty ammo and kit in reserve, contrary to what some "think tanks" tell us. The Ukrainians on the front lines have been clear for months, they simply don't have enough of anything to win.

[Manny]

Not "Russia's war". This is a US conflict, as you well know.

Remind me, who invaded who?

The US invaded Russia's interests by organising a coup d'état in Kiev in 2014, then spent 8 years arming a Nazi regime to kill people in the east. What is happening today stems directly from that. As well you know.

Presently, at this rate, they will be out of hands.

You're attempting to use the failing NYT as a source for what is happening in Russia? 

Russia has brought disaster upon itself. 

Not in the slightest. Sanctions have had very little impact, inflation is now 3%, and things in Russia are fine - despite what the NYT tells you.

Even recently that have expressed a willingness to negotiate

They were trying to do that since 2014. They have been trying to do that during the entirety of the SMO. The narrative that they have just decided to do so because um... losing... is a fantasy.

All these fantasies about running out of men, ammo, or [insert NYT item of the day here] is also bollox. Russia planned for every eventuality before this all started. Russia is manufacturing arms at an unprecedented rate. There are plenty of available soldiers and many that can be shipped in from friendly countries.

Medvedev is broadly correct. Nobody gives a rat's arse about Ukraine other than Russia. The US is using it as a proxy, it could have been Georgia or one of the Stans, they weren't too bothered where the playing field was. The US doesn't give a crap about Ukraine or they'd not have spent years funding Nazis there or arming the losing side to prolong it in the hopes of draining Russia's resources.

Oftentimes, you only have to go back and read what has been said by those in the know and the answer is there. There have been many noises about the west of Ukraine coming by some method under Polish control. Those noises are getting louder now. Obviously, Donbass will remain in Russia. Odessa will be shortly as well. Probably the south coast to Transnistria. Medvedev spoke at New Year of the Kiev Republic. That sounds like a neutral, denazified, demilitarised little place about the size of Liechtenstein.

Medvedev is looking forward and asking those with an interest to consider how it might end. They seek to avoid declaring war and deposing Z. Better if he goes in some way the US can save more face than they did fleeing Afghanistan. There is no prospect of Russia "losing" anyplace other than in the wet dreams of the Western hacks that churn out bollox as you've quoted. So the question is how much of Ukraine needs to become Russia. Certainly not all of it. But they can't have a Nazi state burbling way on the doorstep any longer being armed by you lot. They know now Minsk was a ploy to buy time to arm Kiev, they won't fall for that again.

A better question would be, how can the US pull out of yet another conflict they've lost? The answer is, unfortunately, probably by force as you lot are fighting now for not only geopolitical hegemony but dollar hegemony. And you're going to lose both of those conflicts.

[Bodine]

It may well be 5% of your defence budget but Ukraine have pretty much used up your whole inventory of shells, portable tank busters and man pads (outside of what the US forces require to remain combat ready). It looks like they've been put to good use and they've taken out loads of Russian kit but it's now a depleted resource. If Russia keeps coming, Ukraine won't have the assets they had last year, to defend itself.

The Discord intelligence leak, courtesy of the Thug Shaker Central group, apparently revealed damning intelligence assessment and the US's waning confidence in Ukraine's weakened position. The Pentagon apparently projected this will be a protracted war of attrition and could well last beyond this year.

The hundreds of classified leaked intelligence apparently had been circulating since October last year, which strangely or otherwise, coincided with Russia's pullback.

I keep hoping and wishing this stupid war to just 'stop'!.

[rosco]

It may well be 5% of your defence budget but Ukraine have pretty much used up your whole inventory of shells, portable tank busters and man pads (outside of what the US forces require to remain combat ready). It looks like they've been put to good use and they've taken out loads of Russian kit but it's now a depleted resource. If Russia keeps coming, Ukraine won't have the assets they had last year, to defend itself.

The Discord intelligence leak, courtesy of the Thug Shaker Central group, apparently revealed damning intelligence assessment and the US's waning confidence in Ukraine's weakened position. The Pentagon apparently projected this will be a protracted war of attrition and could well last beyond this year.

The hundreds of classified leaked intelligence apparently had been circulating since October last year, which strangely or otherwise, coincided with Russia's pullback.

I keep hoping and wishing this stupid war to just 'stop'!.

Absolutely agree. It's horrific for those in the war zone but the ramifications are hurting people the world over.

[AvHdB]

I keep hoping and wishing this stupid war to just 'stop'!.

Absolutely agree. It's horrific for those in the war zone but the ramifications are hurting people the world over.

Yes sad but true.

 
The reality is though that V. Putin as the invader has built for himself the perfect bear trap. Now for domestic reasons he can not seek a just peace.

[rosco]

I keep hoping and wishing this stupid war to just 'stop'!.

Absolutely agree. It's horrific for those in the war zone but the ramifications are hurting people the world over.

Yes sad but true.

 
The reality is though that V. Putin as the invader has built for himself the perfect bear trap. Now for domestic reasons he can not seek a just peace.

Do you not think there's one or two geo political reasons too? It appears that he's open to dialogue but Zelensky/US wont entertain it at the moment because shaking hands on it leaves Russia with a win.

[AvHdB]

I keep hoping and wishing this stupid war to just 'stop'!.

Absolutely agree. It's horrific for those in the war zone but the ramifications are hurting people the world over.

Yes sad but true.

 
The reality is though that V. Putin as the invader has built for himself the perfect bear trap. Now for domestic reasons he can not seek a just peace.

Do you not think there's one or two geo political reasons too? It appears that he's open to dialogue but Zelensky/US wont entertain it at the moment because shaking hands on it leaves Russia with a win.

Unfortunately for the world, there is only one possible victory for the. V. Putin, and that is Russian flags flying in Kiev. If he sues for peace this year, V. Putin can start to polish his CV.

[B.B.]

Russia have taken quite the hit but in true Russian style, they keep on coming and have plenty ammo and kit in reserve, contrary to what some "think tanks" tell us.

This is simply a declarative statement of what you want to be true.

The US invaded Russia's interests by organising a coup d'état in Kiev in 2014, then spent 8 years arming a Nazi regime to kill people in the east. What is happening today stems directly from that. As well you know.

Just stop.  You are only embarrassing yourself.  The Russians interfered with Ukr election to help Janukovich and the Ukrainians, understandably, didn't like it.  You always seem to leave that part out, conveniently.

You're attempting to use the failing NYT as a source for what is happening in Russia?

Yes, yes, attack the source, not the information. 

Failing NYT?  You sound like you could be on FOX NEWS! 

Not in the slightest. Sanctions have had very little impact, inflation is now 3%, and things in Russia are fine - despite what the NYT tells you.

The problem is not the NYT.  And you are just repeating Kremlin talking points.

They were trying to do that since 2014. They have been trying to do that during the entirety of the SMO. The narrative that they have just decided to do so because um... losing... is a fantasy.

All along their "negotiation" offer has been a joke "We will accept 100% off our war aims, steal 20% of your country and impose other stuff on you.  Plus you have to remain neutral in case we want to invade you again."  It is unsurprising that the Ukrainians are uninterested in being Putin's beaten wife.

Russia planned for every eventuality before this all started. Russia is manufacturing arms at an unprecedented rate. There are plenty of available soldiers and many that can be shipped in from friendly countries.

And yet, here they are, not in Kiev.  We were discussing "winning" yes?  The Russians thought this was going to be a quick weekend.  Not exactly how it went, is it?

Medvedev is broadly correct. Nobody gives a rat's arse about Ukraine other than Russia.

I suspect the Ukrainians do.

The US is using it as a proxy, it could have been Georgia or one of the Stans, they weren't too bothered where the playing field was.

It has been Georgia.  And Obama taught Putin the wrong lesson there.  Putin did not invade Ukraine when Trump was president, and likely expected President Dementia to do nothing.  Maybe slap some sanctions on them then remove them 18 months later.

If Russia could keep it's nationalism under control, none of this would have happened.

The US doesn't give a crap about Ukraine or they'd not have spent years funding Nazis there or arming the losing side to prolong it in the hopes of draining Russia's resources.

We have no particular need to "drain Russia's resources" and would not be so doing in the absence of Putin deciding to bring war to Europe in the 21st Century.  We could achieve our goals via trade.  It would have been better for all concerned.

Oftentimes, you only have to go back and read what has been said by those in the know and the answer is there. There have been many noises about the west of Ukraine coming by some method under Polish control.

Not likely, but that would be a decision for Ukrainians (well, and Poles) to make.  Certainly the Ukrainians have a lot in common with Poland, and Poland comes with NATO membership, and thus Putin dare not tread.

Those noises are getting louder now. Obviously, Donbass will remain in Russia. Odessa will be shortly as well. Probably the south coast to Transnistria. Medvedev spoke at New Year of the Kiev Republic. That sounds like a neutral, denazified, demilitarised little place about the size of Liechtenstein.

Good lord you are a fantasist.  If Russia stays in Donbas it will be becasue NATO permits it.  I think they could have gotten away with keeping the Crimea, de facto, until things simmered down, and the Donbas – who really gives a shit about the Donbas, anyway? – but they got greedy and now they are in a war, which they are very much NOT winning.

Better if he goes in some way the US can save more face than they did fleeing Afghanistan.

Re: Afghanistan.  Biden is an absolute disaster on that front and many others, but it’s not the US that needs to save face in Ukraine.

There is no prospect of Russia "losing" anyplace other than in the wet dreams of the Western hacks that churn out bollox as you've quoted.

 

Oh, so they captured Kiev and pacified Ukraine in the first two weeks of the war? *blinks*



 

So the question is how much of Ukraine needs to become Russia.

 

That amount is far less that it might have been, 13+ months ago.  The Ukrainians have their eyes set on Crimea again, which the Russians are fully aware of, thus, The Trench.

Certainly not all of it.

 

Certainly.

But they can't have a Nazi state burbling way on the doorstep any longer being armed by you lot.

 

“Subject…verb…NAZI!”  You sound like an American SJW.  “Nazi state”?  Jesus, Manny, you are more royalist than the king.

 

They know now Minsk was a ploy to buy time to arm Kiev, they won't fall for that again.

 

Minsk was an attempt by Russia to impose its will on a smaller, weaker state.

A better question would be, how can the US pull out of yet another conflict they've lost?

We haven’t lost a thing, dear.  Utilizing 5% of our military budget, we have caused the destruction of 40-50% of Russia’s armor, hundreds of thousands of casualties, etc.  The USA has imposed a deep cost on Russia for Russia’s territorial ambitions.

The answer is, unfortunately, probably by force as you lot are fighting now for not only geopolitical hegemony but dollar hegemony. And you're going to lose both of those conflicts.

‘Fraid not, old chap, and Ukraine is actually the more likely to fail.  You European types never, ever seem to understand hard power.   The only question, wrt China, is whether the USA can muster the political will to decouple from it and then watch it go “poof!”  Trump had us on the right track, but, regrettably, the CCP’s program of Elite Capture extends to the Biden Crime Family.  So we shall see.

If I were you, I'd be more worried about Russia becoming China's bitch.  Xi can be a hard taskmaster I hear.

B/B