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Author Topic: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now  (Read 4920 times)

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Online Contrarian

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What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« on: February 13, 2023, 07:33:27 AM »
What Ukrainians think of Russians now, after almost one year of this war. An interview with Kiev citizens.


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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2023, 08:46:16 AM »
Yes all fair points from the people interviewed and let's face it, there will be a lot of previously neutral or pro Russian Ukrainians, who are now really pissed at this war.

What I would add for clarity, is that your title should be "what some Ukrainians think of Russians now". Do you think they'd give the same response in say Crimea or much of the East? Kiev is going to be more pro European given location, status and now the war.

Offline Manny

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2023, 03:28:39 AM »
What I would add for clarity, is that your title should be "what some Ukrainians think of Russians now".

Indeed. Corrected.

And for balance, what some Ukrainians think of Zelensky: https://twitter.com/21wire/status/1623672512797110272
Trip Reports: Links to my travels in Russia, Estonia, North Korea, South Korea, China and the US are >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Offline BC

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2023, 04:38:09 AM »
What I would add for clarity, is that your title should be "what some Ukrainians think of Russians now".

Indeed. Corrected.

And for balance, what some Ukrainians think of Zelensky: https://twitter.com/21wire/status/1623672512797110272

It's great to see these folks can voice their opinions without fear of being arrested.  I wish folks in Russia could enjoy the same right, so we could hear their voices regarding Putin as well.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2023, 07:44:34 AM »
What I would add for clarity, is that your title should be "what some Ukrainians think of Russians now".

Indeed. Corrected.

And for balance, what some Ukrainians think of Zelensky: https://twitter.com/21wire/status/1623672512797110272

Quoting one of the ladies interviewed, talking about the comedian;

"So we chose a clown......well now we're being entertained!!"  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2023, 07:46:56 AM »
What I would add for clarity, is that your title should be "what some Ukrainians think of Russians now".

Indeed. Corrected.

And for balance, what some Ukrainians think of Zelensky: https://twitter.com/21wire/status/1623672512797110272

It's great to see these folks can voice their opinions without fear of being arrested.  I wish folks in Russia could enjoy the same right, so we could hear their voices regarding Putin as well.

Put a sock in it BC, there's plenty videos doing the rounds on social media with 'selected' Russians criticising Putin.

Where was your outrage when Zelenky started attacking the orthodox church and sacking/cancelling political opponents over the last few weeks....... :Zzzzsleep:

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2023, 08:14:12 AM »
Where was your outrage when Zelenky started attacking the orthodox church and sacking/cancelling political opponents over the last few weeks....... :Zzzzsleep:

Haven't heard of any poisonings, disappearances, or folks mysteriously falling off balconies.. or?  I did hear some folks have been accused of treason and such.  Am I wrong to assume they won't have their day in court?  I also see some reports regarding the roles of ROC and UOC being challenged, OTOH also that there are some constitutional constraints to consider when doing so.  Any specifics you'd like to discuss?

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2023, 03:42:01 AM »
Where was your outrage when Zelenky started attacking the orthodox church and sacking/cancelling political opponents over the last few weeks....... :Zzzzsleep:

Haven't heard of any poisonings, disappearances, or folks mysteriously falling off balconies.. or?  I did hear some folks have been accused of treason and such.  Am I wrong to assume they won't have their day in court?  I also see some reports regarding the roles of ROC and UOC being challenged, OTOH also that there are some constitutional constraints to consider when doing so.  Any specifics you'd like to discuss?

Well swerved but lets stick to the initial debate before diversifying into poisonings and balcony free falls.

So you were saying that only in Ukraine could they criticise their own government, yet we have plenty disgruntled Russians giving the BBC interviews or posting stuff on social media......apparently freely too?

Am I wrong? Am I also wrong when it comes to the west supporting Zelensky cancelling and removing his political opponents, who happen to be sympathetic towards Russia? Is this some kind of new selective democracy, like that peddled on old twitter etc?

That's all ok in your books I'm guessing.......

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2023, 05:01:30 AM »

Well swerved but lets stick to the initial debate before diversifying into poisonings and balcony free falls.

Wasn't the initial debate "What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now" reflected in the title of this thread until you altered course and I responded?

Quote
So you were saying that only in Ukraine could they criticise their own government, yet we have plenty disgruntled Russians giving the BBC interviews or posting stuff on social media......apparently freely too?

Like this girl?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64625127

Quote
Am I wrong? Am I also wrong when it comes to the west supporting Zelensky cancelling and removing his political opponents, who happen to be sympathetic towards Russia? Is this some kind of new selective democracy, like that peddled on old twitter etc?

That's all ok in your books I'm guessing.......

Anything specific examples you'd like to post that can be followed up on?

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2023, 05:33:08 AM »
Wasn't the initial debate "What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now" reflected in the title of this thread until you altered course and I responded?

No. You countered Manny's post regarding Ukrainians criticising Zelensky, with claims that at least they are allowed to do so. I pointed out that many in Russia can and do as well. You then started talking about poisoning and balcony free falling. I asked if we could stay on thread or at least discuss Ukraines anti democratic moves and lack of freedom for balance.

Like this girl?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64625127

Well done you, you found a girl reported by the BBC. What about this lot who are openly criticising the war yet seemingly haven't fallen off any balconies.....which was of course my point.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kremlin-faces-more-backlash-from-within-russia_uk_63b59141e4b0cbfd55e56d3e

You and the western press love to make bold claims that nobody in Russia is allowed to speak out against the government......but then hypocritically rejoice the same media who publish articles boasting about prominent Russians speaking out against the government amid anti war protests.

So which one is it BC??

Anything specific examples you'd like to post that can be followed up on?

Opposition political parties banned in Ukraine and ‘unified information policy’ imposed

https://mronline.org/2022/03/24/opposition-political-parties-banned-in-ukraine-and-unified-information-policy-imposed/

There are many other articles discussing this in multiple media outlets but they paint it as a defensive move, rather than an undemocratic one. It's how we package bad news for the sheeple.



Offline BC

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2023, 06:02:36 AM »
Wasn't the initial debate "What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now" reflected in the title of this thread until you altered course and I responded?

No. You countered Manny's post regarding Ukrainians criticising Zelensky, with claims that at least they are allowed to do so. I pointed out that many in Russia can and do as well. You then started talking about poisoning and balcony free falling. I asked if we could stay on thread or at least discuss Ukraines anti democratic moves and lack of freedom for balance.

Indeed, I replied to Manny's post.  I stand corrected.  As to where this thread goes, who knows.  They hardly ever stay on topic. 

Like this girl?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64625127

Well done you, you found a girl reported by the BBC. What about this lot who are openly criticising the war yet seemingly haven't fallen off any balconies.....which was of course my point.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kremlin-faces-more-backlash-from-within-russia_uk_63b59141e4b0cbfd55e56d3e

You and the western press love to make bold claims that nobody in Russia is allowed to speak out against the government......but then hypocritically rejoice the same media who publish articles boasting about prominent Russians speaking out against the government amid anti war protests.

So which one is it BC?? [/quote]

None of the critique mentioned was anti-war, none directly criticized Putin, and overall quite mild.

Anything specific examples you'd like to post that can be followed up on?

Opposition political parties banned in Ukraine and ‘unified information policy’ imposed

https://mronline.org/2022/03/24/opposition-political-parties-banned-in-ukraine-and-unified-information-policy-imposed/

There are many other articles discussing this in multiple media outlets but they paint it as a defensive move, rather than an undemocratic one. It's how we package bad news for the sheeple.
[/quote]

According to the following article, Zelensky signed the law to ban pro-Russian political parties passed by their congress.  I assume this is within their constitutional powers to do so?  Has this new law been challenged in their courts, as is done quite often in many countries?

Although I might disagree with Zelensky consolidating media, I do recognize that Ukraine is under martial law.  I'm pretty sure such restrictions would be lifted once the war is over. 

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2023, 06:03:55 AM »
Sorry about the quoting, haven't figured that out quite yet with nested posts...

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2023, 10:13:55 AM »
Where was your outrage when Zelenky started attacking the orthodox church and sacking/cancelling political opponents over the last few weeks....... :Zzzzsleep:

Haven't heard of any poisonings, disappearances, or folks mysteriously falling off balconies.. or?  I did hear some folks have been accused of treason and such.  Am I wrong to assume they won't have their day in court?  I also see some reports regarding the roles of ROC and UOC being challenged, OTOH also that there are some constitutional constraints to consider when doing so.  Any specifics you'd like to discuss?

Well swerved but lets stick to the initial debate before diversifying into poisonings and balcony free falls.

So you were saying that only in Ukraine could they criticise their own government, yet we have plenty disgruntled Russians giving the BBC interviews or posting stuff on social media......apparently freely too?

Am I wrong? Am I also wrong when it comes to the west supporting Zelensky cancelling and removing his political opponents, who happen to be sympathetic towards Russia? Is this some kind of new selective democracy, like that peddled on old twitter etc?

That's all ok in your books I'm guessing.......


I am responding to the part I bolded:

Let's get things straight, those were Ukrainian citizens, criticizing Zelensky. They might be ethnic Russians, but they are Ukrainian citizens on Ukrainian soil.

So you prove the point that there is more freedom of speech in Ukraine and far less in Russia.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2023, 12:26:00 PM »


Let's get things straight, those were Ukrainian citizens, criticizing Zelensky. They might be ethnic Russians, but they are Ukrainian citizens on Ukrainian soil.

So you prove the point that there is more freedom of speech in Ukraine and far less in Russia.

We can't know if they're ethnic Russians, that's a complete guess and yet another obtuse assumption.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2023, 05:09:20 PM »


Let's get things straight, those were Ukrainian citizens, criticizing Zelensky. They might be ethnic Russians, but they are Ukrainian citizens on Ukrainian soil.

So you prove the point that there is more freedom of speech in Ukraine and far less in Russia.

We can't know if they're ethnic Russians, that's a complete guess and yet another obtuse assumption.


Perhaps we need to confirm about who it is we're referring to.

Are you referring to the lady who said: "We voted for a clown, and now we're being entertained"?

If the person being interviewed is a resident of Ukraine, at least what it once was before all this mess, we can at least properly assume they are a Ukrainian citizen.

That means not a Russian!

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2023, 02:04:27 AM »


Let's get things straight, those were Ukrainian citizens, criticizing Zelensky. They might be ethnic Russians, but they are Ukrainian citizens on Ukrainian soil.

So you prove the point that there is more freedom of speech in Ukraine and far less in Russia.

We can't know if they're ethnic Russians, that's a complete guess and yet another obtuse assumption.


Perhaps we need to confirm about who it is we're referring to.

Are you referring to the lady who said: "We voted for a clown, and now we're being entertained"?

If the person being interviewed is a resident of Ukraine, at least what it once was before all this mess, we can at least properly assume they are a Ukrainian citizen.

That means not a Russian!

You might want to do a bit of reading in order to understand Ukraine a bit better. Many people are ethnic Russians and Ukrainian citizens, some are born in Russia but live in Ukraine with or without citizenship....

So I'm afraid you're wrong when you say - that means not Russian!! You guys seem to think this is all black and white, which appears to be causing most of the confusion when you lot pick your team.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2023, 02:59:09 AM »


Let's get things straight, those were Ukrainian citizens, criticizing Zelensky. They might be ethnic Russians, but they are Ukrainian citizens on Ukrainian soil.

So you prove the point that there is more freedom of speech in Ukraine and far less in Russia.

We can't know if they're ethnic Russians, that's a complete guess and yet another obtuse assumption.


Perhaps we need to confirm about who it is we're referring to.

Are you referring to the lady who said: "We voted for a clown, and now we're being entertained"?

If the person being interviewed is a resident of Ukraine, at least what it once was before all this mess, we can at least properly assume they are a Ukrainian citizen.

That means not a Russian!

You might want to do a bit of reading in order to understand Ukraine a bit better. Many people are ethnic Russians and Ukrainian citizens, some are born in Russia but live in Ukraine with or without citizenship....

So I'm afraid you're wrong when you say - that means not Russian!! You guys seem to think this is all black and white, which appears to be causing most of the confusion when you lot pick your team.


I already understand that many Ukrainian citizens have Russian ethnicity and I made that clear as a bell.

You're just arguing for the sake of it, without any intention of ever making any sense. You only wish to confuse people.

You are now part of the problem and your stubborn determination to support that which is indefensible has gotten old.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2023, 04:08:09 AM »
If the person being interviewed is a resident of Ukraine, at least what it once was before all this mess, we can at least properly assume they are a Ukrainian citizen.

That means not a Russian!

I already understand that many Ukrainian citizens have Russian ethnicity and I made that clear as a bell.

My, you are confused arent you? You've tied yourself somewhat in a knot there. As Rosco said, this seems to be the root of the misunderstanding among some folk here.

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Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2023, 07:18:05 AM »
I didn't have any problem following Contrarian's line of thought.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2023, 07:47:40 AM »
Please tell me that the posters here understand the difference between ethnicity and nationality allegiance.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2023, 10:14:03 AM »
I didn't have any problem following Contrarian's line of thought.


Thank you!  :chuckle:

Seriously though, I believe I made it very clear.

In fact, I believe the vast majority of the members of this forum know there is a difference between being a citizen of Ukraine (which is ones Nationality) and having different ethnicity.

AJ has done a good job all along, of pointing out that Putins war has caused most citizens who have Russian ethnicity, to favor Ukraine in this situation.

Not just that, but many are rather negative towards Russian now. Which is a real shame, because at one time relations were much better. Mission not accomplished.

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2023, 10:16:36 AM »
If the person being interviewed is a resident of Ukraine, at least what it once was before all this mess, we can at least properly assume they are a Ukrainian citizen.

That means not a Russian!

I already understand that many Ukrainian citizens have Russian ethnicity and I made that clear as a bell.

My, you are confused arent you? You've tied yourself somewhat in a knot there. As Rosco said, this seems to be the root of the misunderstanding among some folk here.


No I disagree. I've made the difference between Nationality and ethnicity very clear all along.

Rosco has gotten in the practice of playing devils advocate so much that he is now deliberately attempting to confuse people.

A better question to ponder is, have the Ukrainian version of the FSB shown up and thrown anyone making critical statements about Zelensky into jail?

And if not, that is a key difference between Russia and Ukraine right now!  :coffeeread:

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2023, 10:52:20 AM »
Here is what happens in Russia when you criticize the government, you get arrested!  :whistle:

More than 700 protestors against the war arrested!


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/24/russian-police-block-mobilisation-protests-arrest-hundreds

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2023, 12:20:31 PM »
Oops.

Wonder what she had to say about Putin, before trying to fly?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-russian-military-official-dead-160257516.html

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Re: What Some Ukrainians think of Russians Now
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2023, 12:28:02 PM »
Anyone seen the on-line videos of UA Mothers and Grandmothers fighting off UA SBU Secret Police from kidnaping their 15, 16, 17 year old sons and sending them to the Bahkmut etc., front lines to magically disappear into clouds of Reddish-Pink Mist?

MTV's Spin:

Young Ukrainians Enlist While Russian Teens Are Tricked Into the Frontline | Need To Know


Clearly the Google YouTube algorithms have been programmed with the "proper" NATO Narratives...