What would happen if Western Ukraine had a referendum to become Polish?

[2tallbill]

Or Ukraine for that matter...

Excellent point. At one time many years ago Poland controlled
vast lands in Ukraine. What would happen if Western Ukraine
had a referendum and most of Western Ukraine voted to become
Polish. They would be part of both the EU and NATO in a single vote.

Russia would argue that such a vote wasn't proper or allowed
or recognized as legitimate.

[Manny]

I think that might be a decent idea actually.

[Contrarian]

Would the West Ukrainians and Poles actually be able to get along? It's a very good question considering their history. 

[Steveboy]

Yes you would have to point out to them that there would be no more grants/cash/gifts and so on once they become part of Poland. The UK left the EU so hand outs for Poland are not so big now.. 

Mind you if they are willing to put their tongue up uncle Sams sphincter like the rest of the Polish art could work out for them..

[2tallbill]

Yes you would have to point out to them that there would be no more grants/cash/gifts and so on once they become part of Poland. The UK left the EU so hand outs for Poland are not so big now.. 

The UK didn't leave NATO

[Contrarian]

Yes you would have to point out to them that there would be no more grants/cash/gifts and so on once they become part of Poland. The UK left the EU so hand outs for Poland are not so big now.. 

The UK didn't leave NATO

What's your point Bill? He said that the UK left the EU.

He did not say they left NATO but quite frankly maybe they should.

The UK is a complete mess, how can they support an overseas war when people cannot walk around London in the evening without getting stabbed and the Police go to ones house and bully a person and maybe arrest them for saying something which is not Politically Correct?

War is Peace.
Orwell 1984.

[2tallbill]

Would the West Ukrainians and Poles actually be able to get along? It's a very good question considering their history. 

They both view the Russians the same way. Remember
that the Russians killed the Polish president a few years
back. (yes, I know that Kremlin Stu is going to
hyperventilate).

[Texan77]

I wonder how Manny would feel if then Zelensky ran for president of new larger Poland and won basically combining the two countries into one now having a population of nearly seventy million and a GDP that nearly rival that of Russia. The real goal here is to destroy Ukraine and carving it up is one way. That is why Manny thinks this is a good idea. Russia might have the ability to defeat a small Ukraine.

[Steveboy]

I wonder how Manny would feel if then Zelensky ran for president of new larger Poland and won basically combining the two countries into one now having a population of nearly seventy million and a GDP that nearly rival that of Russia. The real goal here is to destroy Ukraine and carving it up is one way. That is why Manny thinks this is a good idea. Russia might have the ability to defeat a small Ukraine.

I bet at the end of your bed there is a big gold framed photo of zelensky and each night you go to bed you salute him 

[B.B.]

I think that might be a decent idea actually.

Putin wouldn't like it because "Poland" (and therefore NATO) moves closer to his borders, and he couldn't mess with that part of Ukraine any more.

DLW

[Lon]

I bet at the end of your bed there is a big gold framed photo of zelensky and each night you go to bed you salute him 

that is certainly one way of shutting up Texan77    and such a great contribution to the convo    are you only here to try and do intimidation    I wonder if I can think up a few more sentences to put the "" emoji after   

[Texan77]

I bet at the end of your bed there is a big gold framed photo of zelensky and each night you go to bed you salute him 

How did you know???

[2tallbill]

What's your point Bill? He said that the UK left the EU.

The UK is still giving gifts/aid to Poland/Ukraine through
NATO was my point.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-will-match-record-ukraine-support-in-2023#:~:text=Prime%20Minister%20announces%20the%20UK,Ukraine%20in%202022%20next%20year.&text=20%20September%202022-,Prime%20Minister%20announces%20the%20UK%20will%20meet%20or%20exceed%20the,Ukraine%20in%202022%20next%20year.

[dorbradavid]

I bet at the end of your bed there is a big gold framed photo of zelensky and each night you go to bed you salute him 

How did you know???

Good comeback 

[Contrarian]

I bet at the end of your bed there is a big gold framed photo of zelensky and each night you go to bed you salute him 

How did you know???

Because at the end of Steveboy's bed is a big gold framed photo of Putin. 

[Manny]

Would the West Ukrainians and Poles actually be able to get along? It's a very good question considering their history. 

They both view the Russians the same way. Remember
that the Russians killed the Polish president a few years
back. (yes, I know that Kremlin Stu is going to
hyperventilate).

Ooh, I missed this. 

The claim that Russia 'killed' the Polish president is nothing more than a politically motivated conspiracy theory. The Smolensk air disaster was a tragic accident caused by a combination of poor weather, pilot error, and pressure from the Polish leadership to land at Smolensk despite unsafe conditions.

Air traffic controllers in Russia advised the pilots to divert due to dense fog, but the Polish delegation insisted on landing. Cockpit recordings suggest that high-ranking Polish officials were present in the cockpit, and it wouldn't be the first time Kaczyński pressured pilots to ignore safety recommendations - he had done the same in Georgia in 2008.

Blaming Russia ignores these facts and serves only to fuel anti-Russian sentiment. Russia fully cooperated with the investigation, but some in Poland continue to push baseless accusations rather than accept responsibility for what was ultimately a reckless decision made by their own leadership.

[Contrarian]

Would the West Ukrainians and Poles actually be able to get along? It's a very good question considering their history. 

They both view the Russians the same way. Remember
that the Russians killed the Polish president a few years
back. (yes, I know that Kremlin Stu is going to
hyperventilate).

Ooh, I missed this. 

The claim that Russia 'killed' the Polish president is nothing more than a politically motivated conspiracy theory. The Smolensk air disaster was a tragic accident caused by a combination of poor weather, pilot error, and pressure from the Polish leadership to land at Smolensk despite unsafe conditions.

Air traffic controllers in Russia advised the pilots to divert due to dense fog, but the Polish delegation insisted on landing. Cockpit recordings suggest that high-ranking Polish officials were present in the cockpit, and it wouldn't be the first time Kaczyński pressured pilots to ignore safety recommendations - he had done the same in Georgia in 2008.

Blaming Russia ignores these facts and serves only to fuel anti-Russian sentiment. Russia fully cooperated with the investigation, but some in Poland continue to push baseless accusations rather than accept responsibility for what was ultimately a reckless decision made by their own leadership.

Sadly I think 2tallbill is more anti-Russian than most! 

[2tallbill]

Sadly I think 2tallbill is more anti-Russian than most! 

My wife is Russian, my inlaws are Russian. I have
a lot of Russian friends. I am not a Putin fan.

[2tallbill]

The claim that Russia 'killed' the Polish president is nothing more than a politically motivated conspiracy theory. The Smolensk air disaster was a tragic accident caused by a combination of poor weather, pilot error, and pressure from the Polish leadership to land at Smolensk despite unsafe conditions.

I did some research and I now believe you are probably right and
I am probably wrong. I looked for Polish sources. Most Poles think
it was a tragic accident and only a third think it was caused by
Putin/Russians.

I make mistakes all the time. This is probably another one of those times.

[Manny]

Sadly I think 2tallbill is more anti-Russian than most! 

Well, we have Tex who we think has a photo of Z in the corner of his room like NKers have the Kims. 

[andrewfi]

Or Ukraine for that matter...

Excellent point. At one time many years ago Poland controlled
vast lands in Ukraine. What would happen if Western Ukraine
had a referendum and most of Western Ukraine voted to become
Polish. They would be part of both the EU and NATO in a single vote.

Russia would argue that such a vote wasn't proper or allowed
or recognized as legitimate.

Following the Kosovo example, that would be hard to argue against in the West. It is the basis on which the LPR & DPR acted and were recognised by Russia. If that were to happen, assuming that the arrangements were similar to those in the LPR & DPR, Russia would not have much cause for complaint and might be seen as a suitable outcome by the Russian state.

Joining the EU might be automatic, but NATO would be more problematic. It would have to depend on the political situation vis a vis the borders of the western area under consideration. In this hypothetical situation, there would have to be some special arrangement.

[WestCoast]

Or Ukraine for that matter...

Excellent point. At one time many years ago Poland controlled
vast lands in Ukraine. What would happen if Western Ukraine
had a referendum and most of Western Ukraine voted to become
Polish. They would be part of both the EU and NATO in a single vote.

Russia would argue that such a vote wasn't proper or allowed
or recognized as legitimate.

Following the Kosovo example, that would be hard to argue against in the West. It is the basis on which the LPR & DPR acted and were recognised by Russia. If that were to happen, assuming that the arrangements were similar to those in the LPR & DPR, Russia would not have much cause for complaint and might be seen as a suitable outcome by the Russian state.

Joining the EU might be automatic, but NATO would be more problematic. It would have to depend on the political situation vis a vis the borders of the western area under consideration. In this hypothetical situation, there would have to be some special arrangement.

Why would there have to be a special arrangement? If western Ukraine became part of Poland it would be Polish territory and all of Poland is in NATO.

When LPR & DPR became part of Russia there was no special arrangement. LPR & DPR were not excluded from The Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). Have you heard different?

[AvHdB]

Or Ukraine for that matter...

Excellent point. At one time many years ago Poland controlled
vast lands in Ukraine. What would happen if Western Ukraine
had a referendum and most of Western Ukraine voted to become
Polish. They would be part of both the EU and NATO in a single vote.

Russia would argue that such a vote wasn't proper or allowed
or recognized as legitimate.

Following the Kosovo example, that would be hard to argue against in the West. It is the basis on which the LPR & DPR acted and were recognised by Russia. If that were to happen, assuming that the arrangements were similar to those in the LPR & DPR, Russia would not have much cause for complaint and might be seen as a suitable outcome by the Russian state.

Joining the EU might be automatic, but NATO would be more problematic. It would have to depend on the political situation vis a vis the borders of the western area under consideration. In this hypothetical situation, there would have to be some special arrangement.

Why would there have to be a special arrangement? If western Ukraine became part of Poland it would be Polish territory and all of Poland is in NATO.

When LPR & DPR became part of Russia there was no special arrangement. LPR & DPR were not excluded from The Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). Have you heard different?

The point Andrew makes is correct.

It was pointed out during the Yugoslavian ‘divorce’ that the Kosovo option was a tricky (dangerous) arrangement. Further NATO has already made arrangements with member countries regarding contested territories.

[WestCoast]

Or Ukraine for that matter...

Excellent point. At one time many years ago Poland controlled
vast lands in Ukraine. What would happen if Western Ukraine
had a referendum and most of Western Ukraine voted to become
Polish. They would be part of both the EU and NATO in a single vote.

Russia would argue that such a vote wasn't proper or allowed
or recognized as legitimate.

Following the Kosovo example, that would be hard to argue against in the West. It is the basis on which the LPR & DPR acted and were recognised by Russia. If that were to happen, assuming that the arrangements were similar to those in the LPR & DPR, Russia would not have much cause for complaint and might be seen as a suitable outcome by the Russian state.

Joining the EU might be automatic, but NATO would be more problematic. It would have to depend on the political situation vis a vis the borders of the western area under consideration. In this hypothetical situation, there would have to be some special arrangement.

Why would there have to be a special arrangement? If western Ukraine became part of Poland it would be Polish territory and all of Poland is in NATO.

When LPR & DPR became part of Russia there was no special arrangement. LPR & DPR were not excluded from The Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). Have you heard different?

The point Andrew makes is correct.

It was pointed out during the Yugoslavian ‘divorce’ that the Kosovo option was a tricky (dangerous) arrangement. Further NATO has already made arrangements with member countries regarding contested territories.

Assuming the referendum on western Ukraine was done properly with international observers Ukraine would have little choice but to recognize its legitimacy. Russia might object but tough luck. Russia said the referendum on the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and the Lugansk People's Republic joining Russia was legit so Russia would be forced to recognize the referendum regarding western Ukraine joining Poland. 

Apparently Russia keeps putting out false reports of Poland planning to seize parts of western Ukraine.


https://carnegieendowment.org/russia-eurasia/politika/2022/12/why-russia-keeps-insisting-that-poland-is-preparing-to-partition-ukraine?lang=en