Amnesty International Expose Ukrainian Military War Crimes

[Manny]

Exactly as Russia has been saying all along:

Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General, said: 

“We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas.

“Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.

“Militaries should never use hospitals to engage in warfare and should only use schools or civilian homes as a last resort when there are no viable alternatives.

“The Ukrainian government should immediately ensure that it locates its forces away from populated areas or should evacuate civilians from areas where the military is operating.”

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-military-endangering-civilians-locating-forces-residential-areas-new

Many pundits are suggesting that this is the start of the US throwing Ukraine under the bus as they have now realised Russia wont be defeated in Ukraine.

Here is such an opinion with explanation from a thinking bloke.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1555804796074049538.html

I wonder when the media will start to mention the indiscriminate targetting of civilians in Donetsk with petal bombs. Also a war crime.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/russia-raises-use-banned-petal-cluster-mines-united-nations

[Danchik]

From a real journalist, Eva Bartlett.

[Lon]

Exactly as Russia has been saying all along:

Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General, said: 

“We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas.

“Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.

“Militaries should never use hospitals to engage in warfare and should only use schools or civilian homes as a last resort when there are no viable alternatives.

“The Ukrainian government should immediately ensure that it locates its forces away from populated areas or should evacuate civilians from areas where the military is operating.”

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-military-endangering-civilians-locating-forces-residential-areas-new

Many pundits are suggesting that this is the start of the US throwing Ukraine under the bus as they have now realised Russia wont be defeated in Ukraine.

Here is such an opinion with explanation from a thinking bloke.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1555804796074049538.html

I wonder when the media will start to mention the indiscriminate targetting of civilians in Donetsk with petal bombs. Also a war crime.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/russia-raises-use-banned-petal-cluster-mines-united-nations

one article by the amnesty people (manipulative media) condemning Ukraine and you all forgot all the previous articles they published condemning Russia     let's just pull up the media that fits all our individual narratives.

and that 'thinking' bloke, referencing the amnesty article, figures out from that one article, the U.S. is throwing Ukraine under the bus.  do you think that he could be any more wishful?  did any one actually read his article, or any of his previous ones?  or does it matter to any of you, as long as it fits your wishful narrative?

how about this article?
https://www.zenger.news/2022/08/03/ukraine-accuses-russia-of-scattering-mines-in-donetsk-in-propaganda-move/

  But Petro Andryushchenko, an adviser to the Mayor of Mariupol Vadym Boychenko, has accused the Russians and pro-Russian forces of scattering the mines themselves so that they can then accuse Ukraine of the deed before demining the streets of Donetsk.
  Andryushchenko said (in Ukrainian): “Russian occupiers and collaborators continue to kill their own population. All week, Russian propagandists have been pushing the agenda of shelling Donetsk with ‘Lepestok’ anti-personnel mines.
  “It’s as if the Ukrainian army is doing it (it’s unclear why). Despite the fact that such mines are prohibited by international conventions and are not in service with the [Ukrainian] Armed Forces. However, they have constantly been used by the Russian army throughout the war since 2014.

who to believe?
which fits the narrative that someone wants to spout?
and lest we forget, the Morning Star newspaper, a socialist rag of the first order.  comical

wasn't there one article that was purporting the NATO 155mm artillery were shelling cities...someone found some "distinctive" shell fragments....really???

guys (gals) find some actual unbiased information

From a real journalist, Eva Bartlett.

1st...I believe there are petal mines.  is that Donetsk?  any one here on the forum from there can verify?  I am inclined to believe that it is Donetsk, but would still like to have it verified by someone I think I can trust.  you Danchik, if you could verify, would be good enough for me.
2nd...what made the women there the expert on artillery?  how does she know where it came from?  is she from Donetsk?  perhaps she has Donetsk accent?

[AJ]

Eva Bartlett has earned a reputation as conspiracy theorist.

She may have done done good journalism here ,or prior,but stands out for *out there* allegations

[Manny]

Eva Bartlett has earned a reputation as conspiracy theorist.

Eva Bartlett is on the ground in Donetsk.

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.

A German paper this weekend has done a big expose of Zelensky's corruption, offshore companies and general grift.

They're pulling the rug out from under him. I predict he'll stand trial in Russia unless the US allows him to escape.

[WestCoast]

Eva Bartlett has earned a reputation as conspiracy theorist.

Eva Bartlett is on the ground in Donetsk.

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.

A German paper this weekend has done a big expose of Zelensky's corruption, offshore companies and general grift.

They're pulling the rug out from under him. I predict he'll stand trial in Russia unless the US allows him to escape.

Manny Russia under Putin has been called a Mafia state for years. You're saying it's OK for the mafia state of Russia to invade and conquer the Mafia state of Ukraine?

BTW it appears China has bought a lot of farmland in Ukraine.

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/why-does-china-own-so-much-of-ukraine/

[andrewfi]

Yeah, the agricultural land, ownership and management were central to my Masters thesis work.

The EU partnership agreement forced Ukraine to sell the land to foreign buyers. This was a terrible deal for Ukraine and its preservation was something that had been at the core of Ukrainian agricultural and economic policy since independence.

The decision to allow land to be leased was a compromise that retained ownership of the key resource but agribusiness was not happy with that. The result is that Ukrainian farmers become dispossessed of the land that they had been given after independence. The result is unemployment and poverty as the new owners do not need the former owners and their employees as they run industrial scale agriculture.

The previous system was not perfect but had become pretty efficient as the landowners tended to return to the previous collective structure with the privately owned land farmed in a cooperative manner.

Many countries, quite sensibly restrict foreign ownership of agricultural and timber land. Once sold to foreign owners the resource is lost to the country, in effect, forever.

It may be that the Russians reorganise ownership. That will find much favour among the people living and working in rural areas.

The EU partnership agreement was a very one-sided deal. It led to the dislocation and dispossesion of agriculture and the end of most of Ukrainian industry which was at the time pretty high tech.

[Manny]

Manny Russia under Putin has been called a Mafia state for years. You're saying it's OK for the mafia state of Russia to invade and conquer the Mafia state of Ukraine?

Russia is conquering the US in Ukraine. The US ignited the conflict, they seeded the coup in 14, they had the biolabs there, they armed them, they funded Nazi groups, and now it turns out they bought 30% of the farmland. No "mafia boss" would have that on his doorstep, would he?

Russia and Ukraine would have chugged along as neighbours as they did since the 90s if the US had kept its beak out.

[andrewfi]

Yeah, I am sure that Russia would have seen what was coming with both agriculture and industry but would have seen it as a domestic matter for Ukraine.

Now, these become issues for Russia to deal with. They know that Ukraine was being strangled by the EU partnership agreement and walk it back to the benefit of the Ukrainian people because it benefits Russia too. I don't see that as being to poke the US and EU in the eye. Russia will have a much more pragmatic view. Although the eye poke will not be unnoticed or unwelcomed.

[WestCoast]

Manny Russia under Putin has been called a Mafia state for years. You're saying it's OK for the mafia state of Russia to invade and conquer the Mafia state of Ukraine?

Russia is conquering the US in Ukraine. The US ignited the conflict, they seeded the coup in 14, they had the biolabs there, they armed them, they funded Nazi groups, and now it turns out they bought 30% of the farmland. No "mafia boss" would have that on his doorstep, would he?

Russia and Ukraine would have chugged along as neighbours as they did since the 90s if the US had kept its beak out.

Russia and Ukraine chugged along as neighbours in the 90s because Russia made sure the leadership in Ukraine was pro Russia. In the 90s there was mass privatization of state property much like what was happening in Russia. I wonder was there a connection? Of course there was this was the beginnings of the Mafia state developing in Ukraine and Russia.

[Jonas!]

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.
 

That is an extremely relevant fact and it's the first I've heard of this.   
It does explain more why the US is using and arming Ukraine.  Ukrainians are dying for US interests also.   
Assuming Russia can capture all this land, it will start to make up for some of the money that has been confiscated from them.

Jonas!   

[AJ]

Eva Bartlett has earned a reputation as conspiracy theorist.

Eva Bartlett is on the ground in Donetsk.

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.

A German paper this weekend has done a big expose of Zelensky's corruption, offshore companies and general grift.

They're pulling the rug out from under him. I predict he'll stand trial in Russia unless the US allows him to escape.

On the ground doesn't mean *real journalist * or unbiased journalism as the earlier implication made i was responding to.
I pointed out what she is known for.
Not liking that, doesn't change what she is known for,regardless where she is reporting from.

Patrick Lancaster has been on the ground in donbass the entire time.
Doesnt make him  a real journilist or unbiased .

I do watch his vids, although many consider him.a paid shill for russia.
I dont,although i think he  is a tad loose with his reporting and certainly biased.
 


As far as Zelensky,i have little doubt he is corrupt. Zero shock there.
Its obvious many politicians are, including many  in the west,and  even more so in the former soviet union,including its chef kleptocrat whose wealth  and off shored holdings are certain to  far exceed some former ukrainian comedians.

 

While inflation is increasimg worldwide, oil is currently less per barrel than before the invasion.

We in the west might be headed back to the 80s in home and business interest rates, but life goes on.

I'm certain it will in Russia as well,but i feel they would have done so in a better position by accepting the sphere of influence change in ukraine.
Im sure others disagree.

If turkey sold its farmland to.mosanto would russia invade ?

Who is monsanto owned by?
Bayer, a german company.

What was monsanto known for? ,bio engineering of crops(and pesticides etc)

Which would fit right in with what i said about  that carnard of bio labs in ukraine being by far mostly agricultural based all along and a perfect place cost wise  to develope new strains of crops,fertilizers and insecticides.






 

[AJ]

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.
 

That is an extremely relevant fact and it's the first I've heard of this.   
It does explain more why the US is using and arming Ukraine.  Ukrainians are dying for US interests also.   
Assuming Russia can capture all this land, it will start to make up for some of the money that has been confiscated from them.

Jonas!

Since the same has been done selling usa interests to china, where should we be arming ?

[AJ]

"Marie Struthers, Amnesty International's Director for Eastern Europe and Central Asia, said, "This horrific assault is yet another apparent example of complete disregard for human life and dignity in Ukraine committed by Russian forces."

And this was yesterday in regards to new information  regarding  the bombing of pows in donbas by russian forces.

[Jonas!]

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.
 

That is an extremely relevant fact and it's the first I've heard of this.   
It does explain more why the US is using and arming Ukraine.  Ukrainians are dying for US interests also.   
Assuming Russia can capture all this land, it will start to make up for some of the money that has been confiscated from them.

Jonas!

Since the same has been done selling usa interests to china, where should we be arming ?

The US may have needed the money if we are selling our interests to China.  I've read that China is buying US farmland.  China has the money because they have been smarter and are outworking us.  Southern California has a huge population of wealthy Chinese businessmen and professionals, many of whom can't speak English   That isn't included in mainland Chinese numbers which are already comparable to the US.  Natives of the USA lost the war long ago without a shot fired, no need to arm anyone at this point.  Looks like we can accept our future fate as being workers for China   
Jonas!   

[WestCoast]

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.
 

That is an extremely relevant fact and it's the first I've heard of this.   
It does explain more why the US is using and arming Ukraine.  Ukrainians are dying for US interests also.   
Assuming Russia can capture all this land, it will start to make up for some of the money that has been confiscated from them.

Jonas!

Since the same has been done selling usa interests to china, where should we be arming ?

The US may have needed the money if we are selling our interests to China.  I've read that China is buying US farmland.  China has the money because they have been smarter and are outworking us.  Southern California has a huge population of wealthy Chinese businessmen and professionals, many of whom can't speak English   That isn't included in mainland Chinese numbers which are already comparable to the US.  Natives of the USA lost the war long ago without a shot fired, no need to arm anyone at this point.  Looks like we can accept our future fate as being workers for China   
Jonas!

Jonas I'm not sure what you're talking about.

According to Politico as of July 2021 Chinese owners controlled about 192,000 agricultural acres in the U.S., worth $1.9 billion. Do you know how little 192K acres is? If the Chinese government is buying US farmland, I know they're doing it in other countries, then they're doing it very slowly. Yes I think the US government should block the Chinese government from buy US farmland.

BTW Bill Gates owns about 270k acres of the 900 million acres of US farmland.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/china-buying-us-farms-foreign-purchase-499893
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-bill-gates-blackrock-788010130032

[WestCoast]

Manny Russia under Putin has been called a Mafia state for years. You're saying it's OK for the mafia state of Russia to invade and conquer the Mafia state of Ukraine?

Russia is conquering the US in Ukraine. The US ignited the conflict, they seeded the coup in 14, they had the biolabs there, they armed them, they funded Nazi groups, and now it turns out they bought 30% of the farmland. No "mafia boss" would have that on his doorstep, would he?

Russia and Ukraine would have chugged along as neighbours as they did since the 90s if the US had kept its beak out.

By now Putin's been told by his people that Russia will be economically weakened for decades. If Russia is to survive in the coming decades Putin and his successors are going to have to kiss a lot of Chinese and Indian butt to get loans and hi tech equipment Russia won't be able to get from the west.

As a member of BRICS China will have Russia supplying all the raw materials with which China and India will produce the hi tech equipment. India and China will advance while Russia remains far behind as a supplier of raw materials and low tech manpower.

[Jonas!]

Here's something else not discussed. Zelensky essentially sold 17m hectares (30%) of Ukraine's farmland to US corporations, Monsanto, etc.

https://infobrics.org/post/36302/

Was Russia going to sit idly by as Ukraine gets sold to the US? Now the picture is starting to emerge why the US has thrown the kitchen sink at Ukraine.
 

That is an extremely relevant fact and it's the first I've heard of this.   
It does explain more why the US is using and arming Ukraine.  Ukrainians are dying for US interests also.   
Assuming Russia can capture all this land, it will start to make up for some of the money that has been confiscated from them.

Jonas!

Since the same has been done selling usa interests to china, where should we be arming ?

The US may have needed the money if we are selling our interests to China.  I've read that China is buying US farmland.  China has the money because they have been smarter and are outworking us.  Southern California has a huge population of wealthy Chinese businessmen and professionals, many of whom can't speak English   That isn't included in mainland Chinese numbers which are already comparable to the US.  Natives of the USA lost the war long ago without a shot fired, no need to arm anyone at this point.  Looks like we can accept our future fate as being workers for China   
Jonas!

Jonas I'm not sure what you're talking about.

According to Politico as of July 2021 Chinese owners controlled about 192,000 agricultural acres in the U.S., worth $1.9 billion. Do you know how little 192K acres is? If the Chinese government is buying US farmland, I know they're doing it in other countries, then they're doing it very slowly. Yes I think the US government should block the Chinese government from buy US farmland.

BTW Bill Gates owns about 270k acres of the 900 million acres of US farmland.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/china-buying-us-farms-foreign-purchase-499893
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-bill-gates-blackrock-788010130032

I threw an 'if' because it was unclear.   Actually, the number you cite is from 2019 and they keep using same number each year.   Probably a little more.   Also, probably not a smart move letting China buy up our farmland...unless of course we plan on seizing it back later using some excuse.   Meanwhile some property tax is collected from China.   
Smart for China to buy up land wherever it makes sense.   They have the money, and they can get something tangible from the land, or they can resell it for possibly more later. 

Jonas!   

[AJ]

Jonas, so its smart for china to purchwse american  farmland (and other countries' including ukraine)

But it's not smart for the u.s. to do so in other countries as well?


Just clarifying what you are implying?

And yes a lot of socal has been purchased by chinese ,and more so daily.

[Lon]

here is Ryan McBeth's take on the Amnesty international's "expose"
bout a minute long


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kWCcQ8aKPZg

[WestCoast]

here is Ryan McBeth's take on the Amnesty international's "expose"
bout a minute long


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kWCcQ8aKPZg

As I've repeatedly said Russia invaded Ukraine and started the war. Everything bad that happens in Ukraine is Russia's fault.

Russia's even more corrupt than Ukraine so Russia shouldn't be surprised by the corruption in Ukraine. What probably upset Putin and his cronies was that Putin and his cronies were not getting their cut of the corruption in Ukraine and that's probably what made Putin decide to invade Ukraine.

[Jonas!]

Jonas, so its smart for china to purchwse american  farmland (and other countries' including ukraine)

But it's not smart for the u.s. to do so in other countries as well?


Just clarifying what you are implying?

And yes a lot of socal has been purchased by chinese ,and more so daily.

If I were Russia I would be a LOT less bothered by China buying up Ukraine farmland than the US.   The US has a history of teaming up with other 'western' nations and working against Russian interests.  So yes, there is a difference in this case.   

Jonas!   

[Jonas!]

Jonas, so its smart for china to purchwse american  farmland 


And yes a lot of socal has been purchased by chinese ,and more so daily.

Regarding US farmland.  I think if I were to make laws I'd prevent foreign nations from buying farmland in the US, or at least put a cap on how much foreign countries can own.    One downside is no tax revenue from the outside country.  Another downside maybe we don't have enough willing capable moneyed people to cultivate the land.
First generation Chinese here in SoCal are wealthy and bring in millions of property tax revenue.  Their companies and wiliness to work have brought them great wealth and many of them live in 4000-10,000 square foot mansions around these parts.  Homegrown Americans don't compete will against them, hence they monopolize the trailer parks! 
Jonas!

[Lon]

Jonas, so its smart for china to purchwse american  farmland 


And yes a lot of socal has been purchased by chinese ,and more so daily.

Regarding US farmland.  I think if I were to make laws I'd prevent foreign nations from buying farmland in the US, or at least put a cap on how much foreign countries can own.    One downside is no tax revenue from the outside country.  Another downside maybe we don't have enough willing capable moneyed people to cultivate the land.
First generation Chinese here in SoCal are wealthy and bring in millions of property tax revenue.  Their companies and wiliness to work have brought them great wealth and many of them live in 4000-10,000 square foot mansions around these parts.  Homegrown Americans don't compete will against them, hence they monopolize the trailer parks! 
Jonas!

nice generalization.  you need to move out of California.  that is not what I see in my neighbor hood

[Jonas!]

Jonas, so its smart for china to purchwse american  farmland 


And yes a lot of socal has been purchased by chinese ,and more so daily.

Regarding US farmland.  I think if I were to make laws I'd prevent foreign nations from buying farmland in the US, or at least put a cap on how much foreign countries can own.    One downside is no tax revenue from the outside country.  Another downside maybe we don't have enough willing capable moneyed people to cultivate the land.
First generation Chinese here in SoCal are wealthy and bring in millions of property tax revenue.  Their companies and wiliness to work have brought them great wealth and many of them live in 4000-10,000 square foot mansions around these parts.  Homegrown Americans don't compete will against them, hence they monopolize the trailer parks! 
Jonas!

nice generalization.  you need to move out of California.  that is not what I see in my neighbor hood

There wasn't a generalization.  I specifically discussed the area I'm in as demonstrated in the bolded text.     I'm not moving out of SoCal until I'm ready to move. I'm not bothered by who has made megabucks here and lives in 7500 sq ft mansions.   I have no use for that type of space or lifestyle...at this time.     

Jonas!