Pelosi in Taiwan

[WestCoast]

China says the treaty was unfair. Surely Russia would want to do good and make right any historic wrongs no matter how far in the past they are?

I'm sure since you have such a firmly held belief in fair agreements, you would agree that the US should allow Hawaii to be independent since we were not fair in how we took control of it.

Jonas!

That particular injustice does pop up from time to time. My understanding from my trips to Hawaii is that while the Hawaiians (I mean the ethnic Hawaiians not all people living in Hawaii) might want some compensation the majority of them still want to be part of the US.

One of the reasons mentioned for wanting to remain part of the US is the protection offered being a US state from things like another takeover by some foreign enemy like China or Japan if it were to go evil again.

As far as I can remember, I've been going to Hawaii since the mid 80s there's never been enough interest to even commission some type of official polling on the issue. 

Back in the mid 90s a friend and I were going to buy a duplex 5 or 6 blocks from the beach in the outskirts of Honolulu. Only about $380K at the time. Now worth somewhere around $2million.

Jonas have you ever been to Hawaii? Much better weather than LA.

[Jonas!]

.

Jonas have you ever been to Hawaii? Much better weather than LA.

I've been to hawaii several times.   I can't complain too much about the weather here in LA.    Best weather I experienced is Medellin Colombia. 

Jonas! 

[B.B.]

Nancy Pelosi is a fatuous twit.  That said, the PRC does not get to tell US officials where/when/how/which US allies and trading partners they visit, period, full stop, the end.

B/B

[B.B.]

Reunification is a given

Eventually, it is likely, but not yet a given.

China clearly prefers a peaceful, economically driven solution.

Ofc, they do.  Just like the American & International Left do: "Kindly just accept the totalitarianism we want to impose on you."

A bit of a tough sell, that.

A military option might be forced onto the Chinese.

Yes, yes, "forced" on them.  George Orwell, call your office.

B/B

[Markje]

Nancy Pelosi is a fatuous twit.  That said, the PRC does not get to tell US officials where/when/how/which US allies and trading partners they visit, period, full stop, the end.

B/B

Since the USA did not recognize taiwan, officially pelosi visitted china without their permission

[Bodine]

Nancy Pelosi is a fatuous twit.  That said, the PRC does not get to tell US officials where/when/how/which US allies and trading partners they visit, period, full stop, the end.

B/B

Since the USA did not recognize taiwan, officially pelosi visitted china without their permission

Yes, Markje but the US did maintained diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Taipei even maintained diplomatic delegation in DC.

I passionately abhor Pelosi, but screw China and what they think we should or shouldn't do.

[Lon]

A military option might be forced onto the Chinese.

Yes, yes, "forced" on them.  George Orwell, call your office.

B/B

yes, China is in for the long game, but they might be forced into a military option.  yes, Xi is the master politician, much better than any one else in the world, except perhaps Putin, but he will be forced into a military option.

[Jonas!]

Nancy Pelosi is a fatuous twit.  That said, the PRC does not get to tell US officials where/when/how/which US allies and trading partners they visit, period, full stop, the end.

B/B

Since the USA did not recognize taiwan, officially pelosi visitted china without their permission

I agree with this.   One question is why exactly did she visit.   It continues to appear that the US wants to escalate China in some way.  I'm not sure why, it seems much of the world aside from EU nations wouldn't side against China in a conflict over Taiwan. 

Jonas!   

[B.B.]

One question is why exactly did she visit.   It continues to appear that the US wants to escalate China in some way.  I'm not sure why, it seems much of the world aside from EU nations wouldn't side against China in a conflict over Taiwan. 

WaPo published an op-ed from Pelosi's office, eplaining her reasons.

Pelosi, despite being a liberal, has been a hawk on China for a long time.  Her trip to Taiwan was part of a broader Asian trip including Japan, Malaysia, SoKo and Singapore.

B/B

[B.B.]

Nancy Pelosi is a fatuous twit.  That said, the PRC does not get to tell US officials where/when/how/which US allies and trading partners they visit, period, full stop, the end.

B/B

Since the USA did not recognize taiwan, officially pelosi visitted china without their permission

US Pols have long been visiting Taiwan.  This is nothing new.  China is just more bellicose about it under Xi.

B/B

[AvHdB]

China had control over Vladivostok since about the late 13th century. The area was ceded by China to Russia as a result of the Treaty of Aigun of 1858 and the Treaty of Peking of 1860. China calls these treaties illegal and unfair.

Being that you're such a fan of China ruling Taiwan for such a long time meaning that China should still control Taiwan you must be in favor of China regaining its control over Vladivostok and surrounding areas?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vladivostok
https://carnegiemoscow.org/commentary/60357

Treaty signed in 1858. 
Since you are such a big fan of China retaining Vladivostok, you must also be in favor of Russia regaining control of Alaska.

Jonas!

China says the treaty was unfair. Surely Russia would want to do good and make right any historic wrongs no matter how far in the past they are?

The difference between the two treaties is very big. Russia brought up the idea for the US buying Alaska. Russia voluntarily sold Alaska to the US because Russia needed the money. Don't know if Russia ever offered the same deal to Canada.

OTOH China says Russia bullied them at the point of a gun into selling Vladivostok to Russia after China had had control of the area for centuries.

Alaska was sold to the United States because Russia was at war with Great Britain.

[Contrarian]

One question is why exactly did she visit.   It continues to appear that the US wants to escalate China in some way.  I'm not sure why, it seems much of the world aside from EU nations wouldn't side against China in a conflict over Taiwan. 

WaPo published an op-ed from Pelosi's office, eplaining her reasons.

Pelosi, despite being a liberal, has been a hawk on China for a long time.  Her trip to Taiwan was part of a broader Asian trip including Japan, Malaysia, SoKo and Singapore.

B/B

The friggin psycho bit*h should try being a hawk at home and support not only border security but also rule of law in her own district.

Schizophrenic evil cu*t doesn't know what she really supports deep down she only does what her puppet masters tell her to do.

[Orchid]

Китай объявил о временной приостановке работы или упразднении механизмов сотрудничества с США из-за визита на Тайвань спикера палаты представителей конгресса США Нэнси Пелоси, следует из заявления МИД КНР.
Приостановка будет касаться восьми механизмов сотрудничества:
Диалога с США на уровне региональных военных командований;
Рабочих встреч с представителями Минобороны;
Встреч с представителями США в рамках механизма обеспечения безопасности на море;
Переговоров по изменению климата;
Сотрудничества по борьбе с наркотиками;
Сотрудничества в области судопроизводства и юстиции;
Сотрудничества по борьбе с международной преступностью;
Сотрудничества в сфере борьбы с незаконной миграцией и репатриации
Помимо этого китайское внешнеполитическое ведомство анонсировало санкции против самой Пелоси и членов ее семьи.


China announced a temporary suspension of work or abolition of cooperation mechanisms with the United States due to the visit of Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan, according to a statement by the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

The suspension will concern eight cooperation mechanisms:

Dialogue with the United States at the level of regional military commands;

Working meetings with representatives of the Ministry of Defense;

Meetings with U.S. representatives within the framework of the maritime security mechanism;

Climate change negotiations; and

Cooperation on counter-narcotics;

Cooperation in the field of legal proceedings and justice;

Cooperation to combat international crime;

Cooperation in combating illegal migration and repatriation

In addition, the Chinese Foreign Ministry announced sanctions against Pelosi herself and her family members.

[2tallbill]

Since the USA did not recognize taiwan, officially pelosi visitted china without their permission

The USA recognized Taiwan it wasn't until Richard Nixon in 1972 that changed all that.
Then Jimmy Carter ultimately screwed Taiwan by breaking off diplomatic relations with
them.

[Manny]

China announced a temporary suspension of work or abolition of cooperation mechanisms with the United States due to the visit of Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan, according to a statement by the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

The suspension will concern eight cooperation mechanisms:

Dialogue with the United States at the level of regional military commands;

Working meetings with representatives of the Ministry of Defense;

Meetings with U.S. representatives within the framework of the maritime security mechanism;

Climate change negotiations; and

Cooperation on counter-narcotics;

Cooperation in the field of legal proceedings and justice;

Cooperation to combat international crime;

Cooperation in combating illegal migration and repatriation

In addition, the Chinese Foreign Ministry announced sanctions against Pelosi herself and her family members.

This is the start of punishment measures against the US. It's all a general part of China and Russia decoupling from the west and the US especially. Dropping the dollar is another piece of that jigsaw. The US makes it really easy to do due to their aggression.

[Manny]

screw China and what they think we should or shouldn't do.

I think you guys will get used to being at the back of the class. The US is being relegated to a regional power now.

[2tallbill]

screw China and what they think we should or shouldn't do.

I think you guys will get used to being at the back of the class. The US is being relegated to a regional power now.

You are projecting your feelings again onto others again

[2tallbill]

This is the start of punishment measures against the US. It's all a general part of China and Russia decoupling from the west and the US especially.

I certainly hope so. There will be starvation and revolution in China if the USA
finally decouples from China. There is nothing made in China that the USA hasn't
made for themselves in the past.

Russia's tiny little economy is irrelevant on the world stage of who they couple
with or not AND nobody trusts them enough to couple with them in any case.
Several European countries stupidly decided to rely on Russia for energy.

Hopefully the silly Euros learn their lessons this time.

[Jonas!]

This is the start of punishment measures against the US. It's all a general part of China and Russia decoupling from the west and the US especially.

I certainly hope so. There will be starvation and revolution in China if the USA
finally decouples from China. There is nothing made in China that the USA hasn't
made for themselves in the past.

 

From what I've read, China has enough options for food. I remember a poster during the Trump tariff era stated with certainty how China couldn't survive without US agriculture, they did just fine, it was Brazil that sold them soybeans.    There will be no starvation. 


What the US made in the past doesn't mean that much in the here and now.  If we decide to take on more immigrants, we have a chance to manufacture more, but there is a resistance from the right wing to doing that.  If it were so easy a question is why haven't we already done it?   

Jonas! 

[2tallbill]

From what I've read, China has enough options for food.

People in China pay for their food. No money, no eating.

[rosco]

The boot appears to be on the other foot, with the Chinese sanctioning two US defence companies for supplying arms to Taiwan. I suppose the moral of the story here is, if you cant beat them, join them!

https://www.tiktok.com/@frontline_focus/video/7280137452973526314

[Manny]

The US getting a taste of their own medicine.

I wonder how that will actually play out though. She didn't articulate what sanctions exactly, or what Lockheed and Northrop trade with China, if at all.

[2tallbill]

From what I've read, China has enough options for food. I remember a poster during the Trump tariff era stated with certainty how China couldn't survive without US agriculture, they did just fine, it was Brazil that sold them soybeans.    There will be no starvation. 

You misunderstood my point.

My point is that without the USA and Europe buying cheap Chinese goods their labor force will starve
to death. The sanctions placed on Russia by the Euro's and USA would kill China. China doesn't have
gas that the Euro's desperately need to keep their economy running.

From what I've read, China has enough options for food.

China can import it from places, I agree but their people won't be able to buy it.
The Chinese commies will let millions starve before they even think of giving it away.
When the Soviets had food shortages, people starved.

What the US made in the past doesn't mean that much in the here and now.  If we decide to take on more immigrants, we have a chance to manufacture more, but there is a resistance from the right wing to doing that.  If it were so easy a question is why haven't we already done it?   

Again you misunderstand me,

The USA can manufacture things or buy them from India, Vietnam, Mexico or anywhere (but China).
The USA doesn't have to do this officially. Regular Americans can look on the box, see where it's made
and buy their underwear from the Dominican Republic (I do). Americans would do this themselves if
China started killing Taiwanese men, women and children. THEN Chinese people would starve to death.

The Commies will lie, misdirect and get you to make their arguments for them, but once they start the
killing. That's when the Chinese starvation will begin. The Chinese commies know all of this, they are
evil not dumb.