Turpitude and hollow men

[AvHdB]

It is saddening both on RUA and in the international arena to read and listen to the turpitude of some, through jumping over hurdles of personal integrity and through hoops of imagined wrongs, one can excuse the bellicose behavior of a tyrant. The only crime of Ukraine is a desire to become a western member of nations and a true democracy. I was taught two wrongs do not make a right.

Those who can support the war that V. Putin has started in Ukraine lack any moral compass. When the forces of evil will come down your street, what will you think and more important do? Say what you will, you are “Hollow Men”.

[Manny]

The only crime of Ukraine is a desire to become a western member of nations and a true democracy.

That's the bit you're wrong about. And as that's wrong, the rest becomes wrong too.

[AvHdB]

The only crime of Ukraine is a desire to become a western member of nations and a true democracy.

That's the bit you're wrong about. And as that's wrong, the rest becomes wrong too.

Since Martian’s are not extending or expanding there planet. Once can surmise that you are cheering the class bully on.

Off course the desire to enter the European Union and NATO was a false flag operation. They really wanted Russia to level cities, kill civilians and destroy Ukraine.

[Manny]

I think you’ve been around long enough to grasp what started this and why. If you need a refresher, I have stuff you can read.

You may not agree with the military operation, but that’s another matter.

Learn to separate facts from opinion.

[AvHdB]

I think you’ve been around long enough to grasp what started this and why. If you need a refresher, I have stuff you can read.

Oh you mean Russia and there Henchmen?

I come back to the simple reality that two wrongs do not make a right. Why is this so challenging?

[Markje]

I think you’ve been around long enough to grasp what started this and why. If you need a refresher, I have stuff you can read.

Oh you mean Russia and there Henchmen?

I come back to the simple reality that two wrongs do not make a right. Why is this so challenging?

Putin said in 2008 in Munchen: This is our red line
The USA/Europe crossed it
Putin said in 2013 : This is our red line
Ukraine/USA/europe crossed it, Russia responded as well as the Donbass did.
After 8 years of dying citizens of Ukraine , Putin had enough
2022: Liberation Donbass begins.

All of this is wrong, all of it, not just Russia.

[Jonas!]

I think you’ve been around long enough to grasp what started this and why. If you need a refresher, I have stuff you can read.

I come back to the simple reality that two wrongs do not make a right. Why is this so challenging?[/size][/font]

To be earnest that expression is a platitude we heard in elementary school.    It isn't the reality of the world. 

Jonas! 

[dorbradavid]

Putin said in 2008 in Munchen: This is our red line
The USA/Europe crossed it
Putin said in 2013 : This is our red line
Ukraine/USA/europe crossed it, Russia responded as well as the Donbass did.
After 8 years of dying citizens of Ukraine , Putin had enough
2022: Liberation Donbass begins.

All of this is wrong, all of it, not just Russia.

Nicely put. 

[WestCoast]

I think you’ve been around long enough to grasp what started this and why. If you need a refresher, I have stuff you can read.

Oh you mean Russia and there Henchmen?

I come back to the simple reality that two wrongs do not make a right. Why is this so challenging?

Putin said in 2008 in Munchen: This is our red line
The USA/Europe crossed it
Putin said in 2013 : This is our red line
Ukraine/USA/europe crossed it, Russia responded as well as the Donbass did.
After 8 years of dying citizens of Ukraine , Putin had enough
2022: Liberation Donbass begins.

All of this is wrong, all of it, not just Russia.

Ukraine surrenders its nukes and the United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland agree:

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

Note #1. Russia is supposed to respect the borders of Ukraine and its sovereignty. Note the other 5 conditions
Note #2. Russia agrees to reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

[Manny]

For those who need a catch up:

https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-man-who-sold-ukraine/

https://im1776.com/2022/05/27/servant-of-the-corrupt/

[WestCoast]

For those who need a catch up:

https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-man-who-sold-ukraine/

https://im1776.com/2022/05/27/servant-of-the-corrupt/

Seems Putin has always been corrupt even while deputy mayor in St. Petersburg. Imagine how much he's raked in as president of Russia?

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/has-vladimir-putin-always-been-corrupt-and-does-it-matter

[Manny]

Changing the subject again, Westy and also quoting corrupt US Congress funded sources.

Has Moby hacked your account? I know you're not this thick. You're trolling.

[rosco]

It is saddening both on RUA and in the international arena to read and listen to the turpitude of some, through jumping over hurdles of personal integrity and through hoops of imagined wrongs, one can excuse the bellicose behavior of a tyrant. The only crime of Ukraine is a desire to become a western member of nations and a true democracy. I was taught two wrongs do not make a right.

Those who can support the war that V. Putin has started in Ukraine lack any moral compass. When the forces of evil will come down your street, what will you think and more important do? Say what you will, you are “Hollow Men”.

I find it equally sad, having to read new threads some 100 days into the conflict, created by people who really ought to know much better. I was about to explain why nobody here is as you describe but I see that some have already pointed you in the right direction. You appear to believe that life is simple and you're either in one camp or the other. How childlike.....

I assume that you're either doing a serious bit of trolling or you're not as intelligent as I had you marked down for. Suggesting that anyone who doesn't change their Facebook filters to 'I stand with Ukraine' or those who don't automatically label Russians Nazi, are now in your very own words, "lacking any moral compass".

So whilst you arrogantly stand on your soap box virtue signalling, accusing others of being tyrant apologists, can you please explain why it is wrong to discuss the current affairs like an adult and consider the wider picture, given all the information we have? Should everyone be forced to toe the party line, to avoid upsetting bed wetters?

[andrewfi]

Rosco, I agree with every word above.

I absolutely think that what is happening is terrible. It is a smear upon civilisation. But I am also at a loss to understand some other issues:
1) Why is Ukraine such a touchstone of moral superiority. What about Yemen, Iraq, and Afghanistan? Where's the outrage?
2) Where's the outrage for the thousands killed by Ukrainian shelling of Ukrainian citizens for many years. People living in the eastern part of the country?
3) Where's the outrage for the actions of the US and EU in encouraging the Ukrainian government in continuing a conflict that is already lost. An ongoing conflict that is being encouraged with the sole purpose of 'improving' Ukraine's possible negotiating position during the inevitable surrender negotiations. Yeah, the US president made that explicit the other day. That's an act of evil.
4) How come so many people are unable to consider why and how this happened and the role of the EU and United States in this?

So much of what I am seeing horrifies me because of the hypocrisy of these self-righteous and prejudiced people with their selective outrage.